1 TRANSCRIPT OF PRIME MINISTER'S INTERVIEW WITH MEMBERS OF THE CHINESE PRESS IN HOKKIEN RECORDED AT TV SINGAPURA STUDIOS ON 13TH SEPTEMBER, 1965. (TRANSLATION) Reporter: Mr. Lee, what is your opinion regarding recent developments in the situation in Sabah and Sarawak? Prime Minister: First, I must state clearly that this is not our problem, but the problem of a foreign country. Government leaders of Malaysia have always said that the people of Singapore should not interfere with their affairs. So I can only make a general analysis here, because the development of the situation there will inevitably have an influence on our position. A few days ago, I had talks with a few leaders of Sabah and Sarawak; they wanted to pay me a courtesy call when they passed through Singapore. I could not refuse to meet them. It would have been very rude to refuse, therefore, I met them. lky\1965\lky0913.doc 2 I think they must have a "Malaysian Malaysia". If there is not, the consequences will be very serious. Geographically, Sabah and Sarawak are unlike the States of Kedah and Kelantan. They are wide areas. The area of Sabah is almost as large as that of the Malay Peninsula; so too, Sarawak. All should live peacefully and tolerate each other. There should be no such thing as "one race, one language. one culture" It is unwise to say such things. Reporter: Mr. Prime Minister, what do you think of the fate of the few million "Malaysians"? Prime Minister: This will depend on whether they were forced to leave Malaysia. And what were the schemes and plots of certain leaders? They thought that with Singapore out, they could have enough forces and sufficient strength to control Malaysia. As for Singapore, if there had been steel in only a few of the leaders but not also in the people generally, we might have been devoured. The few leaders would have been destroyed. lky\1965\lky0913.doc 3 Let me cite an example; perhaps you will remember that towards the end of July 1965, Tun Razak and Tan Siew Sin visited Singapore for 4 or 5 days... Reporters: Yes, we remember.. Prime Ministers: It was their most important final test after the Hong Lim by- election. Their original intention was to make use of the Hong Lim by-election to hit at the PAP. They themselves did not have the capacity to hit at the PAP. So they worked hand in glove with Ong Eng Guan. Ong Eng Guan conveniently resigned in order to allow the Barisan Socialis to fight it out with us. They thought through Barisan they could repeat the setback of 1961 when the PAP lost. They wanted to see us lose in the Hong Lim by-election in July this year, to lower our prestige internationally, and then they would have dealt with us thoroughly and finished us off. These were the methods and the calculations at that time. lky\1965\lky0913.doc 4 Fortunately, the voters in the Hong Lim constitutuency had more then enough political sophistication to understand what is right and what is wrong, and they elected the PAP candidate. The two million people in Singapore owe a debt of gratitude towards the Hong Lim electorate. Because of their political consciousness, the scheme could not be brought about. Instead our position strengthened because of the political awareness of the voters of Hong Lim. Fortunately also several leaders of the Australian Labour Party were also in Singapore at that time, and they witnessed the political battle in Hong Lim. Tun Razak then visited the Southern Islands off Singapore. You know that the Malays form the majority of the population in the southern Islands. He wanted to test whether he could get the support of the Malays there. He knew he could not. Our Malays in the Southern Islands are also sufficiently educated in political affairs and they are sophisticated. The receptions and the shaking of hands of lky\1965\lky0913.doc 5 V.I.P's are but formalities. What is more important to them is: Who can improve their living conditions? The Central Government or the Singapore Government? Who has more capacity and ability to get things done and done not corruptly? Tun Razak said on that occasion that he wanted to build jetties for the Southern Islands, that he had worked out a series of plans to help the Malays there, but that these had been hindered by the Singapore Government. It was embarrassing to hear these strange things being said. In a few hours he had to admit that he had no plans at all. If he had any plans, why should he have kept quiet when we asked him about them? Then he said that development was the responsibility of the Singapore Government. And I said "If it is out responsibility, we will shoulder it..." Some of the jetties that we have built cost $4,000 to $5,000, some only $1,000 to $2,000 If they were to build them, the cost would be doubled or trebled. Do you want to know the reason? Everyone will want to have his cut all along the line. lky\1965\lky0913.doc 6 It all boils down to this: that they are afraid that the Malays will slowly and gradually be influenced by us. I have to point this out: that they knew the State of Johore is very close to us, and that it is very convenient to come shopping in Singapore. So, they have Malaya now separated, thinking thereby that our developments cannot now influence Johore thinking now that we cannot directly help Malaysians. I want to be frank. This is very serious. Malaysians must depend on their own strength. If they have steel in them, if they have the will to survive things will become very different. Look at the people who they have nominated as leaders for the Chinese and Indians. They are all political eunuchs. Why? Look at the attitude of those who are in authority; they regard the kampongs as their Istana compound which is, politically, out of bounds. The people in the kampongs they regard as their harem and taboo to all political males. Multi-racialism and ideas of an open society are considered as dangerous lky\1965\lky0913.doc 7 virile males. They are a threat to the owner of the Istana and the harem he wants only for himself. That is why he must use "political eunuchs". Otherwise, they might be impregnated by these democratic socialist ideas. The result would be a complete democratic socialist ideas. The result would be a complete change of the spirit of all the kampongs, leading to a different political outlook and a forward looking political situation. This analogy perhaps most vividly explains why some of their top political leaders, insisting on the old society, allowed the Ultras to play on language, race and religion. This analogy will explain exactly where the crux of the problem lies in Malaysia. So it is that the leaders they have chosen are all politically impotent. Not only can they not organise the Malays; they also are unable to organise their own community. They say Chinese should unite with Chinese, Indians with Indians and then the leaders unite the Malay leaders. But they choose people who cannot unite the Chinese or the Indians and only they unite the Malays through playing on language, race and religion. lky\1965\lky0913.doc 8 But if the people all Malaysians are united, the fate of Malaysians will never be bleak. It now depends on whether Malaysians have vision and courage. If, when threatened with race riots we got cold feet it would have been the end. If Malaysians are like us -- not easily rattled -- then eventually a transformation will take place. On the other hand if they get scared easily then eventually, even the language used for the names of schools will be changed and all will be emasculated after 10 years or 20 years. (To one of the reporters) I think in that event if you were to go back to Kuala Lumpur, you would find that your family would have been changed too. But I believe that there are thousands of Malaysians who have self-respect and the guts to stand by what is right. The most important thing is that they must not make use of racial feelings. Otherwise a great wrong will be done. lky\1965\lky0913.doc 9 If you shout "Chinese unite" this will inevitably excite the suspicions of all other races, and the Chinese will be isolated. The Chinese now make up about 36 percent of Malaysia (without Singapore) and the Malays 45 percent. But if you say "Malaysians unite", this will mean 55 percent, at least 55 percent of the population have a future. Moreover, many of the educated and thinking Malays are also striving for progress and for a modern society and they will lead this movement to a new and more just society. It all depends, therefore, on whether Malaysian leaders have wisdom. If they make long-term calculations, they must really do this and not just think of the General Elections in 1969. This is not the vital objective. It is just because some leaders were calculating for the General Elections in 1969 that they forced us to leave. But we make our calculations on the basis of the next generation and the generations to come on: what the future will offer our progeny in a hundred years. Even Dato Dr.