maruša zorec Arhitektura empatije i zajedništva maruša zorec The Architecture of Empathy and Unity

razgovarali fotografije photographs by Arhiva Maruše Zorec / Maruša Zorec’s Archive (amz), interviewed by Matjaž Bolčina (mb), Tadej Bolta (tb), Matej Delak (md), Damjan Gale (dg), Janez Kališnik (jk), Miran Kambič (mk), Jože Suhadolnik (js), Maruša Zorec (mz), Bogdan Zupan (bz) portreti portraits Damil Kalogjera Vera Grimmer Tadej Glažar

Razgovarali u Ljubljani 23. listopada 2013. Interviewed in on 23 October 2013

¶ Ulazak Maruše Zorec na arhitektonsku scenu nije bio ni ¶ The entry of Maruša Zorec to the architectural scene was glasan ni spektakularan, no time je bio uvjerljiviji. Bilo je to neither loud nor spectacular but thus more impressive. It was malo, atmosferično remek-djelo – kapelica u podnožju fra- a small masterpiece of atmosphere – the chapel at the bottom njevačke crkve u samom srcu Ljubljane. U svojem daljnjem of the Franciscan Church at the very heart of Ljubljana. In her radu ostvarila je ozbiljne priloge problematici kontekstualne subsequent work she made significant contributions to the gradnje. Uz poštovanje zatečenog, Maruša Zorec afirmira i issue for construction in context. With respect to the existing instrumentarij vlastita vremena uspostavljajući poveznice architecture, Maruša Zorec affirms the paraphernalia of her starih i dodanih slojeva. Također, u projektima poput knjižnice time by connecting the old and added layers. In her projects, u dvorcu u Ravnama ili Glazbene škole na imanju ormoškog such as the castle at Ravne or the music school on the estate dvorca, Maruša nudi mogućnosti komunikacije i zajedništva. of the castle in Ormož, Maruša also offers the possibilities of Svojim nastavničkim radom punim aktivizma i empatije na communication and togetherness. Her teaching style, charac- Arhitektonskome fakultetu u Ljubljani nastavlja rad svojeg terized by activism and empathy, at the Faculty of Architecture mentora Vojteha Ravnikara. in Ljubljana, continues the work of her mentor .

76 oris, broj 84, godina 2013 oris, number 84, year 2013 Maruša Zorec, Intervju Maruša Zorec, Interview 77 Ne ostvarujemo nešto što je izvan nas, ostvarujemo kroz to kakvi jesmo, kako vidimo stvari, kako ih osjećamo

We don’t realize something which is outside of us, we realize through what we are, how we see things, how we feel them

ORIS — Vaš rad na oživljavanju potencijala povijesnih arhi- ORIS — Professor Aleš Vodopivec defined your work of zaista tako. U Ravnama smo prvi put počeli raditi u malo većem Ravne belong to a more radical approach? ¶ Maruša tektura profesor Aleš Vodopivec definirao je kao dodavanje unlocking the potential of historical architectures as add- mjerilu pa smo otkrili da ono što smo htjeli i pokazali na natje- Zorec — Maybe it really does. In Ravne we started working suvremenih arhitektonskih slojeva koji u dijalogu sa sta- ing contemporary architectural layers which acquire new čaju – intervenciju unutar starih zidova jednim potezom koji on a large-scale building for the first time and we discovered rim strukturama oblikuju nova značenja i prostorne odlike. meanings and spatial characteristics to the dialogue with se u tom slučaju odražavao u jedinstvenom popločenju, jedin- that what we had wanted and showed in the competition – Možete li nam kazati koji se sve procesi i arhitektonska sred- the old layers. Can you tell us which processes and means stvenom stropu koji je u cjelinu povezan sitnim intervencijama the intervention inside the old walls in a single take which, in stva kriju iza te sjajne definicije? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Procesi of architecture hide behind this great definition?¶ Maruša – možda nije došlo do izražaja na način na koji smo to pred- that case, was visible in the uniform flooring and the uniform su dugotrajni i raznoliki, u biti ovise o svakoj pojedinoj situaciji, Zorec — The processes are long and diverse and depend on vidjeli na maketi i nacrtu. U Ormožu je situacija bila ponešto ceiling interconnected into a whole by small interventions – njezinim karakteristikama i podatcima koje otkrivamo na tom each individual situation, its characteristics and information, drukčija, ali smo se i mi ponešto promijenili te smo uvidjeli da was maybe not quite as visible as we had predicted by the putu. To nisu jednoznačne stvari niti slojevi potječu samo iz which are discovered on the way. These are not unambiguous naše koncepte možda nije potrebno provoditi u nekom fizič- model and the plan. The situation in Ormož was somewhat jednog vremena. Radimo postupno. Isprva su naši koncepti matters and layers do not originate only from one period. We kom, materijalnom smislu, već da poveznica može biti prostor. different, but we also accepted some changes and realized bili vrlo čvrsti. S vremenom smo spoznali da bi stare strukture work gradually. At first our concepts were very firm. With time Tu je praznina prostora ta koja sve povezuje te uvodi moderno that our concept need not be applied in a physical or material mogle biti odviše krhke pored tog novog koje bismo dodavali. we realized that old structures could seem too fragile next to u staru strukturu. Taj otvoreni prostor donosi slobodu među sense because the space could be the nexus. Emptiness of Tako su ti koncepti postupno postajali mekši. Mijenjali su se the new ones we would add. Such concepts eventually became stare zidove. Uvodimo slobodni tloris u tu relativno zatvorenu the space connects everything and introduces the contem- na putu traženja prave mjere kako bi se i sama ideja novog, more flexible. They changed during the process of searching neuređenu staru strukturu, otvaramo prostore. Prava orga- porary to an old structure. That open space brings freedom dodanog, potvrdila. for an appropriate measure so that the idea of the new, the nizacija prostora između starih zidina osnova je za režirane among the old walls. We introduce a free plan into a relatively ORIS — Kakva bi bila usporedba intervencije u dvorcu Ravne added would be confirmed. puteve kroz prostore. Bitno je da ima više puteva, to znači više closed and disordered old structure, we open spaces. Appro- na Koroškem i Glazbene škole u Ormožu? Spadaju li Ravne ORIS — How would you compare the intervention in mogućnosti upotrebe prostora za različite načine korištenja priate organization of space between old walls is the basis u radikalniju fazu pristupa? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Možda je the Ravne Castle and the Music School in Ormož? Does zgrade. U Ormožu je situacija bila drukčija i zato što su se for directed paths through the space. It is important to have

78 oris, broj 84, godina 2013 oris, number 84, year 2013 Maruša Zorec, Intervju Maruša Zorec, Interview 79 Maruša Zorec, Maša zgrada. Taj tradicionalni ornament punog i praznog u cigle- Maruša Zorec, Maša Živec, Ana Kučan, nom zidu tu je na neki drukčiji, kreativni način došao do izra- Živec, Žiga Ravnikar, preuređenje dvorca ¶ preuređenje majura Ravne, Ravne na žaja. Maruša Zorec — Pa i ovdje je razvoj bio postupan. dvorca Ormož, Ormož, Koroškem, Slovenija, Najprije smo predvidjeli da će naša intervencija, to dodano Slovenija, 2009. – 2011. 2001. – 2004. novo, biti izvedena u drvu. Slučaj je doveo do toga da smo Maruša Zorec, Maša se odlučili za opeku. Naime, morali smo zadržati krov od Maruša Zorec, Maša Živec, Žiga Ravnikar, Živec, Ana Kučan, biber-crijepa pa smo stekli dojam da će biti previše različi- Conversion of the remodeling of the tih materijala. Počeli smo razmišljati o korištenju opeke pri outbuildings of the Ravne Castle, Ravne Ormož Castle, Ormož, na Koroškem, , dodavanju svega novoga. Slučajno smo se na primjeru jednog Slovenia, 2009 – 2011 2001 – 2004 lijepog uzorka poda od mljevene i lijevane opeke, oduševili (mk) (js) tim materijalom. Tek nakon toga oblikovala se konačna ideja muzeja, muzejski sadržaj. Nakon prve ideje za etnografski muzej, zajednica se odlučila da osnuje u zgradi arheološki muzej tog područja. U svim arheološkim nalazima glina je bila primarni element. Postupno se posve slučajno ta pripovijest prapovijesti povezala u jednu cjelinu – od načina na koji se glina upotrebljavala nekada do načina na koji je upotreblja- vamo danas. ORIS — Tu je važan i programski faktor. Je li Vam bitno sudjelovati već u stvaranju programa zajedno s investito- rima i kolike su mogućnost sudjelovanja u tom programu? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Vjerujem da takva mogućnost uvijek postoji, nikada ne vidim program kao zaista konačnu činje- Maruša Zorec, Maša nicu. Naime, mislim da naručitelju možemo ponuditi ono što Živec, Žiga Ravnikar, preuređenje majura nikada nije zapisano u programu, a to je karakter zajedničkih dvorca Ormož, interijer, prostora, javnih, polujavnih prostora namijenjenih izvjesnom Ormož, Slovenija, Maruša Zorec, Maša more paths, in other words, more possibilities to use the space socijalnom momentu. To arhitektura može ponuditi. Kakvim 2009. – 2011. Živec, Ana Kučan, for different uses of the building. The situation was different se god sadržajima bavili, važan je ulazni trg na kojem se ljudi interijer dvorca Ravne, Maruša Zorec, Maša Ravne na Koroškem, in Ormož because the rooms were very different from one okupljaju. U Ravnama se naš koncept temeljio na tome da je Živec, Žiga Ravnikar, Slovenija, another. We wanted to preserve this diversity so that every sve organizirano polazeći od unutarnjeg dvorišta, a tamo smo Conversion of the 2001. – 2004. outbuildings of the room would keep its characteristics and atmosphere. The se trudili očuvati postojeću lipu. Također, u slučaju Naskova Ormož Castle, interior, Maruša Zorec, Maša experience from Ravna showed that we even cleaned up the dvorca u Mariboru, taj je skupni, povezni prostor dvorište sa Ormož, Slovenia, Živec, Ana Kučan, space too much. Therefore, in this case, we tried to preserve stablom oraha. Slično je bilo i u Ormožu, postojeći prostor 2009 – 2011 interior of the Ravne as much character, soul and light of the space as possible. nudio je priliku formiranja vanjskog trga, koji smo pokušali Castle, Ravne na (mk) Koroškem, Slovenia, ORIS — Ormož is also an example of how old materials can povući u ulazni prostor bez granice između unutarnjeg i vanj- 2001 – 2004 be used in a new way and also how to evaluate the charac- skog. Možda je takva programska dopuna, povući javni prostor

(js) teristics of architteture minore of the village ambience, in unutra, mogući dodatak funkcionalnim zahtjevima. other words, farmstead buildings. This traditional ornament ORIS — Ta knjižnica, kompleks u Ravnama, postoji već više of the full and the empty in the brick wall has been realized godina. Znate li žive li zaista ti socijalni prostori? Kakav je prostorije međusobno veoma razlikovale. Tu raznolikost htjeli here in a different and creative way. ¶ Maruša Zorec — The dojam nakon nekoliko godina? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Ovisi o smo sačuvati kako bi svaka prostorija zadržala svoje karak- development was gradual here as well. First, we envisioned that tome tko kuću dobiva u ruke. S vremenom sve više uviđam da teristike, svoju atmosferu. Vjerojatno je iskustvo u Ravnama our intervention, the new that we would add, would be done in bi kasniji korisnici morali u tom procesu biti prisutni kako bi pokazalo da smo čak i previše očistili. Stoga smo ovdje nasto- wood. We eventually went for brick. We had to keep the plain- znali cijeniti, razumjeti na koji način koristiti zgradu. U Rav- jali očuvati što više karaktera, duše, svjetlosti tih prostora. tile roofing so we had the impression that there would be too nama je to vrlo lijepo uspjelo, tamo se posjet izuzetno povećao. ORIS — Ormož je također primjer korištenja starih materi- many different materials. We started thinking about using brick Istovremeno, tamo ravnateljica brine o javnim događanjima. U jala na novi način, a osim toga, i vrednovanja karakteristika when adding all new elements. We became thrilled with this program knjižnice spadaju izložbe, predavanja pa i vjenčanja architteture minore seoskog ambijenta, dakle gospodarskih material by chance when we saw a beautiful sample of flooring u vrtu. Vrlo su samoinicijativni, prepoznali su potencijale te ih

80 oris, broj 84, godina 2013 oris, number 84, year 2013 Maruša Zorec, Intervju Maruša Zorec, Interview 81 radnika na gradilištu? Koliko vam znači taj kontakt? ¶ Maruša courtyard with a walnut tree. It was similar in Ormož: the exist- Zorec — Empatija je u arhitekturi jako važna činjenica, ing space provided the opportunity for formulation of an out- koja se često zapostavlja. U prvom redu moram kazati da u door square, which we tried to pull into the entry area without birou nisam samo ja, trenutno imamo vrlo dobre odnose i boundaries between the interior and the exterior. Maybe this programme addition – to pull a public space into the interior –

Maruša Zorec, Matjaž Bolčina, Maruša Zorec, Matjaž Bolčina, renovation is a possible addition to functional demands. obnova Naskova dvorca, Maribor, of Naskov Castle, Maribor, Slovenija, ORIS — This library, the complex in Ravna exists for several Slovenija, 2008. – 2009. 2008 – 2009

years. Do you know if these social areas are still alive? What (mb) is your impression after several years? ¶ Maruša Zorec — It depends on who gets the house. With time I have come to real- ize that subsequent users should be involved in the whole pro- cess so that they could appreciate the building and understand how it could be used. It worked very well in Ravna where the attendance has significantly increased. The local headmistress is also engaged in organizing public events. The library programme includes exhibitions, lectures and even weddings in the garden. They show great initiatives, they have recognized potentials and exploit them. If you open a space to the extent that people realize how they could use it, I think it will become functional. We helped with the exhibition collection in Ormož – certain micro-ambiences were developed. At least that part with the exhibition content became operational up to a point. ORIS — You are definitely not an architect who shuts her- self in the studio and does not communicate with anyone when designing a project. You are also very active at the

Maruša Zorec, Matjaž koriste. Otvoriš li prostor do te mjere da ljudi spoznaju kako in crushed and cast brick. Only after that did we come up with funkcioniramo dobro. construction site. What is your experience in that aspect, Bolčina, obnova ga koristiti, mislim da će zaživjeti. U Ormožu smo pomogli the final idea for a museum, for the museum content. After ORIS — Vi uvijek kažete mi, nikada ja. ¶ Maruša maybe regarding Ormož? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Our projects Naskova dvorca, Maribor, Slovenija, pri izložbenom postavu – nastali su izvjesni mikro-ambijenti. the initial idea for an ethnographic museum, the community Zorec — Surađujemo relativno ravnopravno jer inače, uz sva have mostly been public. The two latest ones, in Maribor and 2008. – 2009. Barem je taj dio s izložbenim materijalom u nekoj mjeri zaživio. decided to open a local archaeological museum in the building. opterećenja koja imam, ne bih mogla raditi. Znam da se na njih Ormož, were completed using European funds. It was a great

ORIS — Vi zacijelo niste arhitektica koja se zatvara u svoj The primary element of all archaeological findings was clay. This mogu osloniti, da mi pomažu i da me podupiru u slučaju borbe. opportunity. Funds could be received for architectural heritage Maruša Zorec, Matjaž Bolčina, renovation of atelijer i koja je za vrijeme projektiranja programa za neki prehistorical story gradually and accidentally united in a whole Lakše je tako nositi teret i na gradilištu. Pa i dileme, kojih nema and it is exactly heritage where things cannot be clear until Naskov Castle, Maribor, projekt bez kontakata. Vrlo ste aktivni i na gradilištu. Kakvo – from the way clay used to be used to the way we use it today. malo, bez njih se ne bi rješavale na isti način. Drugi je faktor the very end. That is why things change during the working Slovenija, 2008 – 2009 je vaše iskustvo u tom smislu, možda upravo u vezi Ormoža? ORIS — The programme element is also important. Do you suradnja s investitorom. To je možda najteže, uvijek treba vre- process. These changes on site can only contribute to the (mk) ¶ Maruša Zorec — Naši su projekti uglavnom bili javni. Dva find it important to be included in the creation of the pro- mena da bi se steklo povjerenje. I napokon, suradnja s izvođa- project but they require a certain degree of tolerance from all posljednja, u Mariboru i Ormožu, izvedena su europskim sred- gramme together with the investors and do you have the čima, a to je u našem slučaju također vrlo teško. Nema poštova- participants. In both projects (The Naskov Castle in Maribor, stvima. Bila je to velika prilika. Za graditeljsku baštinu moglo opportunity to participate in the programme? ¶ Maruša nja, izvođači ne znaju čitati planove, a ti su planovi često pomoć The Music School in Ormož) it was important for the project se dobiti sredstva, a upravo u slučaju baštine do samoga kraja Zorec — I believe that this is always possible; I have never tek nama samima da bi se neke stvari razjasnile. Moramo doći leaders to have a vision, not in the sense of demolition, but a ne može sve biti jasno. Zato su se tijekom radnog procesa seen a programme as a definite fact. Namely, I think that we na gradilište, tamo obaviti mnoge stvari, nacrtati, pokazati. Vrlo vision of a new project which would provide the environment stvari mijenjale. Te izmjene na licu mjesta mogu projekt samo can offer the investor what is never included in the programme: rado radnicima pokazujem da bez njihove pozitivne energije with a new quality. They accepted the changes and decisions obogatiti, ali zahtijevaju određenu toleranciju svih sudionika. the character of common spaces, public spaces, and semi-public stvari ne mogu biti izvedene. U procesu u kojem smo svi uklju- and helped with the paperwork but we also visited the site at Za oba projekta (Naskov dvorac u Mariboru, Glazbena škola spaces intended for a certain social moment. Architecture can čeni i u kojem postoji osjećaj da smo svi važni, rezultati su bolji. least once a week. I think that this presence is crucial. u Ormožu) bilo je važno da su njihovi voditelji imali viziju, ne offer that. Whichever content you are involved in, the most Značajnu fazu predstavlja i sudjelovanje korisnika. ORIS — To what extent is empathy for co-workers but also u rušilačkom smislu, već viziju novog programa koji bi okolini important is the entrance square where people gather. In Ravna ORIS — Drugi segment Vašeg rada profesorski je posao – for workers on the site important? How much does that con- dao novu kvalitetu. Prihvatili su izmjene i odluke te su poma- our concept was based on the fact that everything was organ- nastava na Arhitektonskome fakultetu u Ljubljani, ali i šire, tact mean to you? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Empathy in architec- gali u birokratskom procesu, ali smo i mi barem jednom tjedno ized starting with the inner courtyard, where we tried to pre- primjerice u Pamploni. Tim putem krenuli ste kao asistentica ture is a very important fact which is often neglected. First I bili na gradilištu. Mislim da je ta prisutnost ključna. serve an existing linden. Furthermore, in the case of the Naskov profesora Vojteha Ravnikara. Kakva su vaša sjećanja na to have to say that I am not alone in the bureau; at the moment ORIS — U kojoj je mjeri važna empatija u vezi suradnika, ali i Castle in Maribor, this common and interconnected area is the vrijeme, kako je došlo do odluke o sudjelovanju u pedagoškom we have very good relations and we function very well.

82 oris, broj 84, godina 2013 oris, number 84, year 2013 Maruša Zorec, Intervju Maruša Zorec, Interview 83 Maruša Zorec i studenti ORIS — You always say we, never I. ¶ Maruša Zorec — Our , Tiskarna Mladinska knjiga, Ljubljana, ispred ulaza u Mjesni cooperation is relatively equal otherwise I would not be able Slovenija, 1963. – 1966. centar u Vremskom Britofu, rad grupe to work with all the responsibilities I have. I know I can rely Savin Sever, Mladinska knjiga Printing Office, Kras (Marko M. on them, that they help me and would support me in case of Ljubljana, Slovenia, 1963 – 1966 Dekleva, Damjan Gale, difficulties. It is also easier to bear a burden in that way on the Matijaž Garzarolli, (jk) Vojteh Ravnikar, Egon construction site. Even dilemmas, which are not rare, cannot be Vatovec), 2010. solved in the same way if they are not there. The other factor is cooperation with the investor. This may even be the hardest U svojem konceptu to je posve moderna arhitektura; u svojoj Maruša Zorec and students in front of thing; it always takes time to gain trust. And, finally, there is je materijalnosti pak vrlo osjetljiva i inovativna. Mislim da se the entry to the Local cooperation with contractors, which is also very difficult for naša generacija trudi to dostići – ta se škola s vremenom izgu- Centre in Vremski us. There is no respect, contractors cannot read plans and such bila. Istraživanje i promoviranje kasne moderne predstavljaju Britof, the work of Kras group (Marko M. plans often help only us to clarify some things. We have to mogućnost učenja. Na prvi pogled sve to nije moguće dokučiti. Dekleva, Damjan Gale, come to the construction site, do many things there, draw, and Osobno osjećam da objekte razumijem kad ih duže proma- Matijaž Garzarolli, demonstrate. I am very happy to show the workers that things tram: iako kraj njih prolazim godinama, u jednom ih trenutku Vojteh Ravnikar, Egon Vatovec), 2010 cannot be done without their positive energy. A process which shvatim. To je dugotrajan proces. Primjerice, kod Ravnikara, involves everyone and makes everyone feel important has better cijeli kompleks Ferantov vrt, dogradnja gimnazije u Šubiče-

(md) results. Participation of users is also important. voj ulici ili jedan izuzetno lijep prozor na Cankarjevu domu. O projects belong to Jugovec’s generation. It was, for instance, Oton Jugovec, ORIS — The other segment of your work is teaching – at tom bih prozoru mogla napisati cijeli esej. O Jugovcu da ni ne Savin Sever whom we are studying at the moment. It was a Nuklearni institut Jožef Stefan, Podgorica pri procesu? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Vojteh je 1993. započeo s the Faculty of Architecture in Ljubljana, and, for example, in govorim. Mislim da se kod njega još više radilo o povezivanju very significant generation that managed to introduce the radi- Ljubljani, Slovenija, nastavom. Ja sam tada radila u njegovu uredu i pozvao me da Pamplona. You decided to pursue a career path as an assis- tradicije i moderne u odnosu na konstrukciju. Mislim da se na cal modernism in our region and connect it with the tradition, 1961. – 1965.

mu budem asistentica. Slagali smo se vrlo dobro – radilo se tant of Professor Vojteh Ravnikar. What are your memories of našoj školi ponovno počela oživljavati svijest o značaju kon- which Plečnik had already started with his treatment of materi- Oton Jugovec, Nuclear o suradnji, ali i o obostranom poštovanju. Bilo je to za mene that time, how did you decide to take part in the pedagogi- strukcije za oblikovanje i arhitektonski jezik. Trebali bismo se als, details. It is a completely modern architecture in its concept Institute Jožef Stefan, doba učenja koje mi je nakon fakulteta mnogo pružilo u smislu cal process? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Vojteh started teaching in možda toj svojoj tradiciji malo više posvetiti. and very delicate and innovative in its materiality. I think that Podgorica pri Ljubljani, razumijevanja konteksta, različitih iskustava, od scenografije 1993. I was working in his office then and he asked me to be ORIS — Tradicija slovenske arhitekture u kojoj je arhitekt our generation is trying to live up to their success – this school Slovenia, 1961 – 1965 do urbanizma. U odnosu sa studentima bio je vrlo otvoren. his assistant. We got along very well – it was cooperation, but pronalazač, izumitelj utjelovljena je u Plečniku. Kod Jugovca was gradually abandoned. Research and promotion of the late (jk) Davao im je mnogo slobode. Smatrao je da pravi profesor samo also mutual respect. It was a period of learning which, after kao i kod Ravnikara takvi se momenti također mogu naći. Na modernism provide the opportunity to learn. It is not possible usmjerava, da dopušta raznolikost, a to je zapravo teško. Nje- graduation, gave me the opportunity to understand the context jednom prostoru, koji je djelomično oblikovao Plečnik, mislim to understand it at first sight. I personally feel that I understand gova predavanja o problematici staro – novo nudila su nešto and broaden my experience from scenography to urbanism. He na hodočasnički prostor u Brezju, vaša je arhitektura također objects when I observe them longer: although I tend to pass by na čemu ja danas radim. Danas radim s njegovim nekadašnjim was very open in his relationship with students. He gave them arhitektura pronalaska. Objekt vanjskog oltara koji se tran- them for years, there comes a moment when I understand them. studentima – to je neka vrsta kruga koji me raduje. Općenito a lot of freedom. He believed that a true professor only guides, sformira zapravo je pronalazak. ¶ Maruša Zorec — Hvala, It is a long-term process. For instance, in the case of Ravnikar, it mislim da je na našem fakultetu, uopće kod nas, bilo previše allows diversity, which is, in effect, really difficult. His lectures (tb) nisam to nikada čula na taj način, raduje me. Upravo sam jutros is the entire Ferant Garden complex, an extension of the high tih rezova. Mislim da nam Portugalci mogu biti uzorom što se on the old – the new offered something that I am working on school in Šubičeva Street or an exceptionally beautiful window tiče kontinuiteta. I kod nas bi poštovanje u odnosu na ranije today. Today I am working with his former students – it is a at Cankarjev Dom. I could write an essay about that window. generacije trebalo biti uvjetom dobra rada. kind of a circle which makes me very happy. Generally speak- Let alone Jugovec. I believe that he was even more interested ORIS — U tom smislu Vaš se rad ne ograničava samo na ing, I think that there have been too many cut-downs at our in connecting tradition and modernism in construction. I think praksu, na nastavu, već ste se bavili i teoretskim, povijesnim faculty. I believe that the Portuguese can be our role model that our school has started to revive this awareness of the radom, tematikom slovenske kasne moderne, osobito Oto- when it comes to continuity. We should also introduce respect importance of construction in formulation and the language of nom Jugovcem. Kako biste tu kasnu slovensku modernu smje- for previous generations as a condition for good work. architecture. Maybe we should cherish this tradition a bit more. stili u neki širi prostor? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Što bolje pozna- ORIS — In this respect, your work has not been limited only ORIS — The tradition of Slovenian architecture with the jemo kasnu modernu, to je više cijenimo. Nije tu samo Jugovec, to practice and teaching, but you have also done theoreti- architect as a finder and an inventor is embodied in Plečnik. već prije svega Edvard Ravnikar, ali i drugi, mlađi. Jugovčevoj cal, historical research, dealt with the topic of Slovenian late Such moments can be found in Jugovec as well as in Ravni- generaciji pripadali su arhitekti koji su u rano doba studirali kod modernism, especially Oton Jugovec. How would you put kar. In one space partially designed by Plečnik, I am thinking Ravnikara, a on je s njima zaista radio svoje prve projekte. To je Slovenian late modernism in a wider context? ¶ Maruša of the pilgrim area in Brezje, your architecture is also the bio primjerice Savin Sever, kojim se trenutno bavimo. Bila je to Zorec — The more we know about later modernism, the more architecture of discovery. The object of an open-air altar vrlo značajna generacija koja je uspjela radikalnu modernu pri- we appreciate it. It is not only Jugovec, but above all Edvard Edvard Ravnikar, tr3, Trg Republike, Ljubljana, Slovenija, 1976. zemljiti u našem prostoru te je povezati s tradicijom, što je već Ravnikar and other, younger architects. Architects who were Plečnik započeo svojim odnosom prema materijalu, detalju. Ravnikar’s students and who were really engaged in his first Edvard Ravnikar, tr3, Republika Square, Ljubljana, Slovenia, 1976

84 oris, broj 84, godina 2013 oris, number 84, year 2013 Maruša Zorec, Intervju Maruša Zorec, Interview 85 nalazio ispred crkve. Pri traženju pravog mjesta za poziciju upwards, towards the Alps, which can also be a change in par- oltara postavili smo ga na vanjsku stranu te tako zamijenili adigm. Pallasmaa writes, actually quotes Zumthor that the orijentaciju. Argumente za tu odluku našla sam u Plečnikovim atmosphere of a place and the atmosphere of a given archi- crkvama na Barju, u Pragu ili u Šiški. Činjenica da je taj oltar tecture instantly affect all the senses – we become aware of okrenut približila je vjernike i svećenike. Mislim da je Plečnik this atmosphere immediately, without thinking. Architec- započeo s tim prije nego što je to bilo službeno moguće. ture appeals to our senses, affects our mood and, eventually, ORIS — Ranije je pogled ljudi bio upravljen na fasadu crkve, even engages our mind. When you enter the chapel of the simbola institucije. Vašim obratom pogled se upravlja prema Franciscan Church in Ljubljana, these words come true. They gore, prema Alpama, a to je možda također promjena para- precisely portray this impression. How was the atmosphere digme. Pallasmaa piše, zapravo citira Zumthora, da atmos- created? Was the light, material or constellation of the space fera nekog prostora i neke arhitekture djeluje odmah na important? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Pallasmaa is the best expert sva čula – bez razuma na mah spoznajemo tu atmosferu. in the field. I think that what was at stake there was the fact

Maruša Zorec, Trg i ¶ Maruša Zorec, Visoka stručna škola za ugostiteljstvo i which is being transformed is actually a discovery. Maruša oltar na otvorenom, Zorec — Thank you; I have never heard anyone interpret- turizam, Maribor, Slovenija, u gradnji Brezje, Slovenija,

2006. – 2008. ing it in that manner, I am glad to hear it. Just this morning I Maruša Zorec, Vocational College for Catering and

Tourism Maribor, Slovenia, under construction was explaining to students how every person has to come to Maruša Zorec, Square their own realization in architecture. What we did there was and the Open-air Altar, (amz) Brezje, Slovenia, supposed to be hidden in order to reveal the work by Plečnik 2006 – 2008 and Vurnik. In the process of looking for a solution we relied (mk) on the folding altars which lead us to the idea of an opening, maybe even a surprise and duality of that space which was Arhitektura djeluje na naša osjetila, na naša raspoloženja, a initially pointing the other way. There are some disputes con- na kraju i na naš razum. Kad se uđe u kapelicu Franjevačke cerning the square as well. The open-air altar used to be situ- crkve u Ljubljani, te se riječi obistinjuju. Točno karakteriziraju ated in front of the church. In the process of searching for the taj dojam. Na koji je način postignuta ta atmosfera? Je li bilo appropriate location for the altar, we decided to put it on the bitno svjetlo, materijal ili konstelacija prostora? ¶ Maruša objašnjavala studentima kako u arhitekturi svatko mora shva- external side and thus switched its orientation. I have found Zorec — Pallasmaa je najbolji poznavatelj svega toga. Mislim titi nešto vlastito. Ono što smo tamo učinili zapravo je trebalo the arguments for that decision in Plečnik’s churches in Barje, da se tamo radilo o činjenici da je prostor kapele drukčiji od biti skriveno kako bi se pokazalo što je napravio Plečnik, odno- Prague or Šiška. The fact that the altar was turned around has prostora svakodnevne sobe i da je važno mjesto ulaza. O tome sno i Vurnik. Pri traženju rješenja oslonili smo se na sklopive brought the congregation and priests closer together. I think on i piše u svojoj knjizi – vrlo je značajno kako ulaziš. Druga oltare pa je tako došlo do ideje otvaranja, možda i iznena- that Plečnik started with it before it was officially possible. je stvar svakako svjetlost u prostoru kao takvom. Koncept je đenja, dvojnosti tog prostora koji je bio usmjeren u drugom ORIS — Before people would look at the façade of the church, izgrađen samo na dnevnome svjetlu, prostor bi trebao biti pravcu. Oko tog trga ima i polemike. Ranije se vanjski oltar the symbol of the institution. Your rotation directs the look taman, stoga je jedan prozor bio smješten indirektno s jedne

86 oris, broj 84, godina 2013 oris, number 84, year 2013 Maruša Zorec, Intervju Maruša Zorec, Interview 87 that the space of the chapel is different from a daily space of the living room and that it is an important place of entry. Pallasmaa writes about it in his book – it is very important how you enter. The second important thing is by all means light in the space. The concept was developed only in daylight; the space was sup- posed to be dark; one window was thus placed indirectly on the side of the altar, and from a smaller, already existing opening the light falls on the font. All additional lighting is in niches, in the back and on the sides. When searching for an appropriate source of light, it is very good to observe daylight because it does not light the space completely. The third thing is the pureness of the space and material so that everything is simple and clear, that the view is focused so that the introduction to the space is important, as well as the way it is framed. These things originate from Plečnik, maybe not completely consciously in my example: how to move through the space, how to frame the view. As an

Maruša Zorec, ulazni strane oltara, a s manjeg, već postojećeg otvora, svjetlost architect you can even do positioning by the use of light. prostor i oranžerija pada na posudu s vodom. Sve dodatne svjetiljke smještene ORIS — Is that description of ambience and atmosphere arboretuma Volčji Potok, Radomlje, su u nišama, odstraga i sa strane. Pri traženju odgovarajućeg comparable with the way you feel in your most beautiful Slovenija, 1. nagrada na izvora svjetlosti vrlo je dobro ugledati se na dnevno svjetlo jer space? In an interview you said that you really like to go to the pozivnom natječaju ono ne osvjetljava prostor u potpunosti. Treća je stvar proči- forest. ¶ Maruša Zorec — Yes, that sounds very simple but

Maruša Zorec, šćenost prostora i materijala tako da sve bude jednostavno i the fact is that such an enthusiasm originates from somewhere.

entrance area and jasno, da se pogled fokusira, da i put uvođenja u prostor bude I grew up close to a big forest and a vast open space. I think that orangery of arboretum značajan, kao i način na koji je taj put kadriran. To su stvari is why I am so amazed by the light – the way the light enters Volčji Potok, Radomlje, Slovenia, 1st award in koje imaju svoje korijene kod Plečnika, možda u mojem slučaju the space, the way it is structured; the space has to be open, the limited submission ne posve svjesno, kako se kretati prostorom, kako kadrirati unlimited. When I was a child, I did not live in an urban area. I

competition poglede. Kao arhitekt, i pozicionirati možeš pomoću svjetla. lived in a open, natural area. There were a lot of trees, forests. šuma, otvorene strane, već i osjećaj za zajednicu u kojoj sam situation. We don’t realize something which is outside of us, we Maruša Zorec, (tb) ORIS — Je li možda taj opis ambijenta, atmosfere usporediv It really influenced me and my whole childhood since I lived in živjela. Kao što kaže Zumthor, kad se čovjek prisjeti odakle je, realize through what we are, how we see things, how we feel Kapela franjevačkog samostana, Ljubljana, s osjećanjem Vama najljepšeg prostora? U intervjuu za jednu a well-functioning community. Therefore, I think it is important vidi i zašto je takav kakav jest. Jasno je da i u arhitekturi djeluje them. We only have to find a way to materialize it. Slovenija, 1996. – 1999. emisiju kazali ste da vrlo rado zalazite u šumu. ¶ Maruša for me in architecture as well. Not only nature, wood, natural onako kako je osjeća. Nešto posve osobno možeš oživjeti i ORIS — So, personality, the past, the character, education –

Zorec — Da, to zvuči vrlo jednostavno, no činjenica je da materials, the structure of light, a forest, open sides, but also transponirati. Stoga mi se čini da je arhitektura odgovor na it is all very important. Do the role models play any part in it? Maruša Zorec, Franciscan Monastery takvo oduševljenje odnekud potječe. Odrasla sam u blizini the feeling for the community in which I lived. As Zumthor says, određenu situaciju. Ne ostvarujemo nešto što je izvan nas, Do you have any personal heroes? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Cer- Chapel, Ljubljana, velike šume i puno otvorenog prostora. Pomišljam da možda u when we remember where we come from, we see why we are ostvarujemo kroz to kakvi jesmo, kako vidimo stvari, kako tainly, but I think that you admire, observe and keep them in the Slovenia, 1996 – 1999

tome leži razlog mojeg oduševljenja svjetlošću – kako svjetlo the way we are. It is clear that we act in architecture as we feel. ih osjećamo. Jedino treba naći neki način, put kako bismo to subconscious, but you do not follow them consciously. You find (bz) dolazi u neki prostor, kako je strukturirano, prostor mora biti You can revive something which is very personal and transpose poslije materijalizirali. your role models already during your studies, maybe through otvoren, neograničen. U djetinjstvu nisam živjela u urbanom it. Therefore I think that architecture is an answer to a specific (tb) ORIS — Dakle, osobnost, prošlost, karakter, edukacija – sve the discipline of your professors. In my case it was Miloš Bonča, okolišu. Živjela sam u otvorenom, prirodnom prostoru. Bilo to igra veliku ulogu. Igraju li i uzori kakvu ulogu? Imate li Edvard Ravnikar’s student, then Vojteh Ravnikar as a specific je tu puno drveća, šume. To me jako označilo, a i samo dje- heroje? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Sigurno, no mislim da im se conceptual school of recognizing the important in architecture tinjstvo, budući da sam živjela u zajednici koja je vrlo dobro u tim slučajevima diviš, gledaš ih i čuvaš u podsvijesti, ali ih and later, naturally, Slovenian modernism. I have to say that I funkcionirala. Stoga mislim da mi je to i u arhitekturi važno. ne slijediš svjesno. Već školovanjem dolaziš do uzora, možda started with Jugovec, then studied Ravnikar, and then I came Ne samo priroda, drvo, prirodni materijali, struktura svjetlosti, preko discipline profesora. U mojem slučaju to je bio Miloš to learn more and more about Plečnik, so I moved backwards. Bonča, učenik Edvarda Ravnikara, zatim Vojteh Ravnikar kao The architecture of Spain, Portugal and, above all, Finland is neka konceptualna škola prepoznavanja bitnog u arhitekturi, a important to me. Aalto as well as others made me realize that Maruša Zorec, ulazni prostor i oranžerija arboretuma Volčji Potok, kasnije dakako slovenska moderna. Moram reći da sam počela architecture is not very different from nature and that the lan- Radomlje, Slovenija, 1. nagrada na pozivnom natječaju s Jugovcem, zatim sam došla do Ravnikara pa sam sve više guage of architecture in a way represents a relationship full of spoznavala Plečnika, dakle put je išao unazad. Inače mi je važna respect and that it can merge with nature. Lately I have also Maruša Zorec, entrance area and orangery of arboretum Volčji Potok, Radomlje, Slovenia, 1st award in the limited submission competition arhitektura Španjolske, Portugala i, prije svega, Finske. Preko found Belgium interesting as a country with which we share

88 oris, broj 84, godina 2013 oris, number 84, year 2013 Maruša Zorec, Intervju Maruša Zorec, Interview 89 nije zanimljiv, stoga smo se oslonili na dva hrastova stabla kao of the building. The construction was not easy because wood poveznice s konceptom zgrade. Izvedba nije bila lagana jer construction is still more expensive than concrete. We slightly je drvena gradnja još uvijek skuplja od betonske. Objekt smo extended the building and gained more beds so we reduced malo povećali, dobili više ležajeva, pa smo tako smanjili inve- the investment per square meter. It would have been very dif- sticiju po kvadratnome metru. Bez razumijevanja i potpore sve ficult for us to accomplish everything as we wanted without bi bilo teško provesti onako kako smo to željeli. understanding and support. ORIS — Većina vaših projekata bavi se obnovom baštine. ORIS — Most of your projects focus on heritage renovation. Zašto mislite da je obnova tako značajna (riječ je o aktivnoj Why do you think that renovation is so important (by this obnovi, novim programima...)? Ako bismo zaista obnavljali sve I mean active renovation, new programmes…)? If we really te objekte, ne bi bilo potrebe za građenjem novoga. ¶ Maruša renovated all those objects, there would be no need to build Zorec — Riječ održivost jako je zlorabljena. Volim otvorene i new ones. ¶ Maruša Zorec — The word sustainability is prazne prostore te njihovo ponovno korištenje. Novo korište- much abused. I like open and empty spaces and how they can nje već izgrađene arhitekture vidim kao jedan vid održivosti. be reused. The new use of an already built architectural work Ne upotrebljava se mnogo materijala, čini mi se racionalnim. is one aspect of sustainability for me. It is not necessary to use Istovremeno su ti stari prostori iznimno bogati u pogledu a lot of material and it seems rational. These old spaces are, at atmosfere, prostornih kvaliteta, strukture, načina gradnje. the same time, extremely rich in atmosphere, spatial qualities, Vjerujem da se obnovom mogu ujediniti sva prošla vremena. structure, and construction methods. I believe that renovation To stvara izvjesnu povezanost s vlastitim korijenima. Tako u can incorporate all past times. This creates a specific link with većoj mjeri živimo u vremenskom-prostornom kontinuumu. our roots. It enables us to live in greater degree in the space- U našoj se zemlji mnogo toga srušilo i započinjalo iznova. time continuum. Many things were torn down and had to be Potreban je dugi niz godina da bi stvari sjele i ukorijenile se. started all over again in our country. It takes a lot of time for U biti je povezivanje staroga s novim i povezivanje sa svojom things to settle and to begin to take hold. In effect, connecting povijesti, prošlosti; temelj je onoga što jesmo. Prije rušenja the old with the new and connecting with our history and past mora postojati uvjerenje da će se situacija zaista poboljšati, is the essence of who we are. Before demolition people need

Plečnikova kuća

Maruša Zorec, Uroš Aalta, ali i drugih, spoznala sam da arhitektura nije jako razli- honesty of the architectural language, comprehension of con- Rustja, Mitja Novak, čita od prirode, već da na neki način svojim govorom predstav- struction, honesty of the material and simplicity. The Plečnik House Martina Tepina, Hostel Punkl, Ravne na lja odnos pun poštovanja i da se s njom može sliti. U posljednje ORIS — Maybe that is an advantage of marginal areas which (dg) Koroškem, Slovenija, vrijeme zanimljiva mi je i Belgija kao zemlja koja nam je bliska have the freedom not to obey the strict rules but rather to 2009. – 2011. po iskrenosti arhitektonskog jezika, po spoznavanju konstruk- follow their intuition. Can we experience this in Ravna, in the

Maruša Zorec, Uroš cije, iskrenosti materijala i jednostavnosti. Punkl Hostel? How did you come up with the design, also in Rustja, Mitja Novak, ORIS — Možda je to prednost rubnih područja koja imaju terms of materials? ¶ Maruša Zorec — In the last couple Martina Tepina, Punkl slobodu ne držati se ortodoksnih pravila, već se prepuštaju of years there have been many discussions and disputes con- Hostel, Ravne na Koroškem, Slovenia, intuiciji. Možemo li to doživjeti u Ravnama, u hostelu Punkl? cerning wood, a very significant material for our country. It is 2009 – 2011 Kako je došlo do takve izvedbe, također u smislu materijala? ecological, it is still readily available and it has often been used ¶ (mk) Maruša Zorec — Posljednjih je godina bilo dosta diskusije in the past. We wanted to present the possibilities it offers. i polemike oko drva, za našu državu vrlo značajnoga materi- The investor wanted to have, above all, a passive object, a low- jala. Ekološki je materijal, imamo ga mnogo, a u prošlosti se energy house. We, in addition, opted for wood as the material puno koristio. Željeli smo pokazati kakve mogućnosti nudi. of choice. We were fortunate that those in charge of manag- Želja naručitelja bila je izgraditi prije svega pasivan objekt, ing the investment respected, understood and supported us, niskoenergetsku kuću. Mi smo se zauzeli za to da pored toga and then helped us in realization of the project. We wanted bude i od drva. Bili smo te sreće da su nas oni koji su bili bitni the house to have a wooden construction, and this meant za vođenje investicije poštovali, razumjeli i podržali pa nam that not only were the façade and construction supposed to potom pomagali to provesti. Htjeli smo da konstrukcija kuće be made of wood, but that it would be visible from the inside bude od drva, a to znači da nema samo drvenu fasadu pa ni and the outside that it was made of wood. The context is not

samo drvenu konstrukciju, već da se i izvana i iznutra vidi da natural there; it is very vague and really not interesting; there- Maruša Zorec, skica za Maruša Zorec, sketch for the je drvena. Tamo kontekst nije prirodan, vrlo je nejasan i zbilja fore we used two oak trees as the connection with the concept projekt Plečnikove kuće project of the Plečnik House (amz)

90 oris, broj 84, godina 2013 oris, number 84, year 2013 Maruša Zorec, Intervju Maruša Zorec, Interview 91 Priroda je tamo fenomenalna, to believe that the situation will really improve, that it will create the atmosphere, ambience and spaces where people hodaš po tim golim grebenima i will feel good, as if at home. gledaš u prazno, samo se u daljini ORIS — You have recently started the restoration project on the Plečnik House. Can you say something about your nazire nešto method of work? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Plečnik partly built and remodelled the house in the part of Ljubljana called Trnovo. The house is actually very different from his monu- Nature there is phenomenal; you mental buildings. It is of a small scale; it is a space that is walk across those bare ridges and truly his: private, very sensitive, delicate, fragile. We would like to preserve the original ambience. Everything new which look into the void, something can will be developed and added should preserve the character of be discerned only in the distance the rooms from the time when he lived there. The complex consists of three houses: the one where he lived, which he built and which includes two round rooms, a wooden room, an anteroom and a winter garden; a corner house functioning as the entrance. Most changes will affect these two objects, these suburban houses. We will make the entrance area, the yard will remain and visitors will be able to walk around. One

area will be for holding classes, for education, entertainment će namijenjen nastavi, odgoju, druženju djece, radionicama, joined by our colleagues from Switzerland who work on the Strojna, panorama

of children, workshops, and lectures and it is here where his predavanjima, a tu će biti izloženi i njegovi radovi. Dobili smo revival of such areas. In cooperation with the professors from Strojna, panoramic works will be exhibited. We have received the plan already nacrt, već izrađen u svrhu dobivanja građevinske dozvole, ali zhaw (Zurich University of Applied Sciences) from Winterthur, view elaborated for the purpose of receiving a building permit, smo ga ponešto promijenili. Raditi toliko blizu Plečnika, to je Stephan Mäder and Max Bosshard – we started to develop (mz) but we have introduced some changes. Working so close to sklizak teren, zapravo nije moguće postići neki minimalizam, a different strategic approach to these issues. The workshop Plečnik is a slippery slope; it is actually not possible to achieve ali se ne može niti polaziti od Plečnika. Trenutno smo u fazi was the first stage, we worked a lot with people and we are minimalism but you also cannot start from Plečnik. We are traženja prave mjere i izraza. Napravit ćemo organizaciju, prije now trying to help them to continue on their own by imple- currently in the stage of searching for an appropriate measure svega ćemo prostor iščistiti i nastojat ćemo odgovarajućim ment our suggestions. People showed interest in continuation and expression. We need to deal with organization; first of osvjetljenjem i materijalnošću dobiti nešto za čime je i Plečnik of the workshops, in the formulation of things, in diet change all, we will clean up the space and use appropriate lighting tragao. Imamo prostore različita osvjetljenja, različita karak- and even in renovation of the two households. Nature there is and materiality to achieve something for which Plečnik also tera s različitim materijalima pa ćemo nastojati naći vlastito phenomenal; you walk across those bare ridges and look into stvoriti atmosfera, ugođaj, prostori u kojima će se ljudi osjećati searched. We have spaces of different lighting and character rješenje, ne preblizu Plečniku, ali ni previše udaljeno od njega. the void, something can be discerned only in the distance. I had dobro, odnosno kao kod kuće. with diverse materials so we will try to find our own solution, Ta igra ravnoteže zapravo je najteža i vrlo je opasna. the impression that these people do not need architects; they ORIS — Nedavno ste se počeli baviti konzervatorskim neither too close nor too far away from Plečnik. This game of ORIS — Ta vrlo osjetljiva zadaća i intervencija čast je za jed- did not have them in the past but they knew everything. I would projektom obnove Plečnikove kuće. Možete li opisati kako balance is in effect most difficult and very dangerous. noga slovenskog arhitekta. ¶ Maruša Zorec — Apsolutno, like them to find out how important it is for them to preserve tamo postupate? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Plečnik je djelomično ORIS — This very delicate task and intervention is an honour ali je i velika odgovornost. Osobno mi je jedna od najdražih their uniqueness. It is the foundation of their future and identity. sagradio i preuredio kuću u ljubljanskom kvartu Trnovu koja se for a Slovenian architect. ¶ Maruša Zorec — Absolutely, zadaća. ORIS — Do you have the feeling that you are swimming zapravo prilično razlikuje od njegovih monumentalnih zgrada. but a great responsibility as well. Personally, this is one of my ORIS — Možda bi bilo zanimljivo čuti nešto o radu student- against the tide? Or is that exactly what should be pursued? Tu se radi o malom mjerilu, o prostoru koji je zaista njegov, projects I prefer most. skih radionica. ¶ Maruša Zorec — Radimo puno radionica ¶ Maruša Zorec — Sometimes I really do. On the other privatan, vrlo osjetljiv, nježan, krhak. Htjeli bismo očuvati ugo- ORIS — Maybe it would be interesting to hear something svake godine tako da se studenti mogu suočiti s konkretnom hand, I find the confirmation for this in the space where I move đaj kakav je postojao. Sve novo koje će nastati i biti dodano about student workshops. ¶ Maruša Zorec — We organize problematikom, takvom kakva je u praksi. U tim primjerima around. Maybe these spaces are somewhat marginal but I see treba očuvati karakter prostorija iz vremena u kojem je on many workshops every year so that students can face actual nema idealnih zadataka ni idealnih uvjeta za rad. Takav bi that I am not alone. It was interesting for me to hear a lecture tamo živio. Kompleks se sastoji od tri kuće: one u kojoj je on problems; ones which are present in practice. These examples primjerice bio projekt u Koruškoj koji se zove Strojna – to of the Chinese architect Wang Shu in Piran. Naturally, in China živio i koju je sam izgradio, to su dvije kružne sobe, drvena have no ideal tasks nor perfect working conditions. Such an zapravo nije selo, već pojedinačna rasuta seoska gospodarstva. they do things completely differently from us but he does soba, pretprostor i zimski vrt; uglovnice te kuće u kojoj je bio example would be the project in Slovenian Carinthia called Stro- Nismo željeli da se taj prostor razvije u pogrešnom smjeru, not. During the lecture I realized that he was a very sensitive organiziran ulaz. Većih izmjena bit će u tim dvama objektima, jna – it is not really a village, but individually scattered farms. već da ljudi nađu smisao života na zemlji. Došle su kolege iz architect and that he swam against the tide. I think that in life prigradskim kućicama. Mi ćemo napraviti ulazni prostor, ostat We did not want the area to develop in the wrong direction but Švicarske koji se bave upravo oživljavanjem takvih prostora. it is more important to swim in a way to stay true to yourself, će dvorište, posjetitelji će moći ići uokolo, jedan prostor bit for the people to find meaning in their life on the land. We were Sudjelovanjem profesora s arhitektonskog fakulteta zhaw to do what you are. I think that is most important.

92 oris, broj 84, godina 2013 oris, number 84, year 2013 Maruša Zorec, Intervju Maruša Zorec, Interview 93 (Sveučilište primijenjenih znanosti) iz Winterthura, Stephana Mädera i Maxa Bossharda, započeli smo razvijati taj drugačiji strateški pristup ovakvim zadacima. Radionica je bila jedan stupanj, puno smo radili s ljudima, a sada se trudimo pomoći im da nastave polazeći od naših prijedloga. Pokazao se interes za daljnjim radom radionice, za oblikovanjem predmeta, za načinom prehrane pa i za obnavljanjem dvaju domaćinstava. Priroda je tamo fenomenalna, hodaš po tim golim grebenima i gledaš u prazno, samo se u daljini nešto nazire. Stekla sam dojam da ti ljudi ne trebaju arhitekta, nekada ga nisu imali, ali su sve znali. Željela bih da saznaju kako je bitno da očuvaju svoje posebnosti. Grade na njima svoju budućnost i identitet. ORIS — Imate li osjećaj da plivate protiv struje? Ili je to upravo ono za čime treba težiti? ¶ Maruša Zorec — Pone- kad zaista da. S druge strane, nalazim potvrdu na prostorima kojima se krećem. Možda su ti prostori pomalo rubni, ali vidim da nisam sama. Bilo mi je zanimljivo u Piranu čuti predavanje kineskog arhitekta Wang Shua. Naravno, u Kini rade sasvim drukčije stvari od nas, ali on ne. Na predavanju sam shvatila da je jako osjetljiv arhitekt i da on pliva protiv struje. Mislim da je u životu važnije plivati tako da budeš vjeran sam sebi, da radiš ono što jesi. Mislim da je to najznačajnije.

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94 oris, broj 84, godina 2013 oris, number 84, year 2013 Maruša Zorec, Intervju Maruša Zorec, Interview 95