Thursday Volume 593 5 March 2015 No. 119

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 5 March 2015

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2015 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1057 5 MARCH 2015 1058

is that all the options that are being discussed by the House of Commons commission are very different from the proposals considered by the previous Government. Thursday 5 March 2015 Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): The House met at half-past Nine o’clock Has the Secretary of State asked the Airports Commission to examine the cumulative impact of any runway extension at Heathrow and how it would affect the local area if it PRAYERS coincided with other projects, such as the construction of HS2, the Amersham waste transfer station and the [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] development of Newland park? What assessment has been made of the impact on the local area? BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS Mr McLoughlin: The commission is doing a TRANSPORT FOR LONDON BILL [LORDS] comprehensive piece of work looking at all the options Consideration of Bill, as amended, opposed and deferred relating to aviation capacity in the south-east and the until Monday 16 March at Seven o’clock (Standing associated infrastructure projects that any project it Order No. 20). suggests will affect, so I am sure it will have considered the points made by my right hon. Friend.

Sir John Randall (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) (Con): Oral Answers to Questions Notwithstanding whichever decision the Davies commission comes to, does my right hon. Friend agree that connectivity to Heathrow is now being sorted pretty efficiently through TRANSPORT Old Oak Common and that there is no further need for the Heathrow spur should HS2 go ahead? The Secretary of State was asked— Mr McLoughlin: This may be the last time I am able Airports Commission to address my right hon. Friend in this Chamber. It has been a great pleasure to work with him over many years. 1. Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): He has made a huge contribution, not only to the What recent progress has been made by the Airports House of Commons and the Conservative party, but in Commission. [907868] standing up for his constituents in Uxbridge. The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick I agree with my right hon. Friend that these matters McLoughlin): The Airports Commission recently completed need to be addressed very carefully. Of course, at the a consultation on 3 February on its assessment of moment the whole question of HS2 is being studied by proposals for additional runway capacity. The commission a Committee. I am not going to trespass on the valuable is continuing to undertake further analyses on the shortlist and important work it is doing, but my right hon. of runway options before publishing its final report in Friend makes some valid points. The importance that the summer of 2015. Old Oak Common will have to the infrastructure of this country is vast indeed, and I hope to be able to say a bit Mary Macleod: May I congratulate the Government more about that shortly. on their policy on no third runway at Heathrow? Does the Secretary of State agree that the aviation industry Rural Railway Stations would be best served by a solution that encourages competition; can be delivered sooner, cheaper and easier; 2. Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): What takes into account the impact on local residents; and recent discussions he has had with train operating does not require billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money? companies on increasing the use of rural railway stations; and if he will make a statement. [907871] Mr McLoughlin: My hon. Friend has been very consistent in her opposition to any third or fourth runway at The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick Heathrow, and I know she supports the expansion of McLoughlin): Officials regularly meet train operating other airports. I look forward to receiving the commission’s companies where usage is a key discussion point. We are recommendations and report this summer and to my working hard with the industry to increase rural station hon. Friend’s comments on it. usage. We recognise the important social role of stations Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab): Have in building communities, and have therefore introduced we not just wasted another five years? The coalition has a new policy requirement to develop social and community delayed building new runway capacity for the south-east development plans in new franchises. because the Liberal Democrats are in denial about aviation being a very important economic instrument. I Mr Robertson: I thank the Secretary of State for that think the Conservative party now get it. Why have we response. Does he agree that one way we can get cars off had to wait another five years? the road and reduce congestion on our motorways and, indeed, on smaller roads is to develop rural train stations? Mr McLoughlin: I will not take any lessons from a We have one at Ashchurch for Tewkesbury, which is a party that wasted 13 years in not doing anything about very good station, but it is underused at the moment. extra capacity. It is a bit rich of the hon. Gentleman to Can we try to make such stations better used by train accuse the Government of not taking action. The truth operating companies? 1059 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 1060

Mr McLoughlin: The answer to my hon. Friend’s every local authority in the country to make that point question is yes. Ashchurch for Tewkesbury station has and ask them to bear it in mind when they make their the potential for more use. I would welcome that, as I local decisions. am sure my hon. Friend would too. For new franchises we ask operators to look at such questions in great Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab): The detail. I acknowledge his comments, and no doubt Minister has talked in detail about privatising buses and Gloucestershire county council will make such points in bus lanes, but the process needs more than warm words due course. from the Government; it means bus lanes with strong local management and control of funding. Why will the Mrs Caroline Spelman (Meriden) (Con): As a result Government not sign up to our franchising proposals to of the landslip on the Chiltern line, kiosks and shops at allow communities and councils to plan a network that rural railway stations have suffered a drop of at least includes the bus lanes they need? Why, instead of real 50% in their revenue. Will the Secretary of State urge localism, have this Government presided over a failed Network Rail to look at mitigation, such as reducing record, with bus fares up 25% and 2,000 routes cut, and rents, during the period of disruption? a broken bus market, which lets users down, but which Labour will fix in government? Mr McLoughlin: My right hon. Friend makes a very Mr Goodwill: The Government have a very good good point. I hope that there will be an announcement record on buses. Bus companies, including the one in soon about the full reopening of the line. If that has not my constituency, have very full order books, because already been announced, I think it will be announced they are investing as never before in new buses on routes shortly. I will discuss her very good point directly with such the one north of Whitby in my constituency. We the chief executive of Network Rail. People with businesses have a very good record to protect. who are renting from Network Rail have been directly affected by that landslip. Greater Anglia Franchise

Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con): One issue with 4. Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden) (Con): When encouraging the use of Ambergate station in my he expects to publish the invitation to tender for the constituency is the strange fare system. Even though a Greater Anglia rail franchise. [907874] fare to the next station is relatively cheap, the cost of a fare to Birmingham from both stations can be very The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick different. Is there any way that the Secretary of State McLoughlin): The procurement competition has been can fix the fare system to get rid of its anomalies? live since the issue of the procurement documentation on 19 February, and applications are due on 15 April. Mr McLoughlin: I know Ambergate station very well, An invitation to tender will be issued in August, with as the line goes up to Matlock and down to Derby. tender returns due in December 2015. Any delays in the There are indeed anomalies in ticket purchasing on that process will result in a delay to the provision of any new line, and I am only too well aware of such frustrations. rolling stock or services on the line. My hon. Friend makes a valid point, which I certainly want to look at. There are huge opportunities in ticketing, Sir Alan Haselhurst: Is my right hon. Friend aware including with the development of smart technology. that a great many of my constituents expect that the successful bidder will be required, or at least incentivised, to bring in new rolling stock on the Great Eastern and Bus Lanes West Anglia lines to replace the type 317 and 321 trains, which by now are old, uncomfortable, unreliable and 3. Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): What plans he inefficient? has to review vehicular access rights to bus lanes. [907872] Mr McLoughlin: We expect to ask bidders to provide a rolling stock strategy that meets the needs of all The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport passengers in East Anglia, while providing a cost-effective (Mr Robert Goodwill): Decisions on the use of bus solution. They will be in no doubt of the desire of all lanes, including any exemptions or exceptions, are for passengers using that route for substantially new rolling local authorities. stock, and the rolling stock that my right hon. Friend rightly describes should be taken out of service in due course. Andrew Rosindell: I am sure that the Minister will be Mr Simon Burns (Chelmsford) (Con): May I stress to aware that a number of local authorities still do not my right hon. Friend that if there is no new rolling stock allow ambulances to drive in bus lanes unless they are with the award of the franchise, there will be considerable responding to an emergency. Does he agree that if an disappointment among commuters and other users, empty taxi returning to a taxi rank can drive in a bus and it will totally undermine all Network Rail’s lane, an ambulance returning to a hospital should be improvements to the infrastructure? Current rolling able to do so? stock on the commuter lines is so outdated that it has problems with acceleration and braking. Mr Goodwill: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Although an ambulance can use a bus lane when responding Mr McLoughlin: I completely understand the desire to an emergency, it is otherwise up to a local authority of my right hon. Friend for new rolling stock on that to use its discretion on that matter. Indeed, local authorities route and for improvements on the route overall. Norwich such as Labour-controlled Manchester and Sheffield do in 90, a very effective campaign, has been launched, and not allow ambulances in bus lanes. I have written to services to other towns are also quicker. 1061 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 1062

Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): Commuters from station management team. It will take a joined-up approach Colchester pay some of the highest fares in the country, from operators, Network Rail and the British Transport and successive Governments have failed significantly to Police, and the system is feeding that service to ensure improve the railway infrastructure. Does the Secretary that passenger safety and comfort is not compromised. of State agree that without implementation of the East Clearly nobody wants crowded platforms—but this is Anglia rail manifesto, whoever wins the Greater Anglia not crowd control; this is passengers trying to get home rail franchise will find difficulty in improving the service after a long day at work. between Colchester and London? Sir Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con): Further to Mr McLoughlin: We have just seen the launch of the that point, we all want to see improvements to these new east coast main line franchise. It is committed to stations, but the deplorable failure of Network Rail in reducing the cost of rail tickets, and I hope that anyone what is, of course, a very complicated scheme in any who competes for the East Anglia franchise will come event and the failure of the train-operating companies forward with new ideas that will not only increase the to deliver new timetables within such constraints has led capacity on that line and improve rolling stock, but to inexcusable delays and inconvenience for my constituents. look at the cost of tickets. Will my hon. Friend consider giving all those people who have had to travel into London Bridge during this Railway Stations: Traffic period compensation for the cost of their tickets to reflect the very serious conditions with which they have 5. Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): What plans had to deal? he has to improve railway stations to cater for increased rail traffic. [907875] Claire Perry: I thank my right hon. Friend, who has been an assiduous commentator and critic of the current The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport system. Like me, he is absolutely determined that this (Claire Perry): To keep up with the unprecedented unprecedented investment is felt by passengers. That is growth in rail traffic across the country since privatisation, why the Government are spending £38 billion on passenger including a 5% jump in passenger rail journeys last year, improvements. I completely agree that a compensation the Government have committed to significant investment scheme is required, and we are currently looking at in improving stations across the network by 2019. That providing one. includes £160 million in Access for All schemes, £100 million in station commercial projects, and £100 million for the Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Many station improvement programme. stations in Yorkshire and the north will be affected by HS2. Has the Minister seen the startling information Richard Graham: The Secretary of State recently had blogged this morning by Tom Edwards, the BBC transport a chance to visit Gloucester and see the importance of correspondent, that evidence to the HS2 Committee an additional entrance and new car park at our train suggests that hidden costs will raise the overall cost of station, which will also be a catalyst for wider growth the HS2 project from £50 billion to £138 billion? Are and regeneration. Will my hon. Friend confirm when the Government misleading this country about just how she expects the Department’s negotiations with First much this folly of HS2 is going to cost? Great Western on its franchise extension proposals, which include the improvements at Gloucester, to be Mr Speaker: I am not sure that what the hon. Gentleman completed? said is as closely related to the terms of the question as he would have wanted, but the Minister is a dexterous Claire Perry: I thank my hon. Friend for his specific character. and helpful recommendations about the development of Gloucester station. He is a champion for rail travellers Claire Perry: I did not see the information because I in his constituency. The Department is currently in was on the phone to the chief executive of Network negotiation with First Great Western about the new Rail. A budget is a budget. Unlike the hon. Gentleman’s directly awarded contract that will provide services for Government, this Government have a track record of three and a half years from September 2015. We carried bringing in major infrastructure projects such as the out a public consultation last year, and I expect to Olympics on budget and on time. conclude negotiations this month. Mr David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): Travel Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): to the west country is often massively disrupted by The chaotic and dangerous scenes at London Bridge incidents between Reading and Paddington. Given the station come after the major disruption at Christmas. huge investment that has gone into Reading station, is it How can the Minister ensure that the whole rail sector not possible to find alternative means of connectivity works together to put the interests of passengers first? between Reading and London—Reading is virtually becoming a London station—so that people from the Claire Perry: Although I am a strong champion of west country can get in and out of London perfectly the unprecedented investment programme going on easily? right across the country, including the rebuilding of one of the most complicated and busiest stations in Europe, Claire Perry: The hon. Gentleman—like me, he travels that cannot be done at the expense of passengers. I have on that line—will have seen the many improvements to had several conversations with the chief executive of Reading station. It is not just a beautiful new station; Network Rail—most recently before questions this there has been significant remodelling of the train paths, morning—and we are in constant contact with the including a flyover of the freight line to reduce disruption 1063 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 1064 for passengers. The hon. Gentleman will know that the Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): I welcome what Crossrail interchange, which will go to Reading, will lift the Minister has to say. As he will know, the A15 is a about 10% of traffic off the rail network, giving passengers vital road for access to the port of Immingham in my going to Reading a whole series of other options for constituency, the largest port in the country. It is connectivity right into central London. Government policy to improve access to ports. Will he make that a major consideration when he meets me and Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): Rail the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin)? passenger numbers have doubled compared with 20 years ago—thanks to record investment under the previous Mr Hayes: I am conscious that Humberside MPs Labour Government, including in stations such as the met, I think in 2013, to discuss just these issues in the magnificent St Pancras. [Interruption.] Conservative Department. I was with my hon. Friend in his constituency Members may not like it, Mr Speaker, but it is true. very recently looking at transport matters. Actually, I Government Members try to take credit for projects we think the Government can do better in co-ordinating began, such as Reading, but we should look at their the relationship between road investment and ports and broken promises and record of failure instead. They other modes of transport. I think all Governments have make the dodgy claim that they are electrifying 850 miles, neglected that and we can do more. I will certainly take but only 18 miles have been finished, while electrification up what my hon. Friend suggests. costs have doubled, essential projects have been delayed and the Transport Select Committee has warned that Cycling and Walking vital schemes may never be delivered. Is it not time for a change of Government, so that passengers get the services 8. Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): What steps he is they deserve? taking to increase levels of cycling and walking. [907881] Claire Perry: It’s the way the hon. Lady tells them. It is not 850 miles of electrification, but 889 miles—as The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport opposed to the 10 miles delivered in the previous 13 years (Mr Robert Goodwill): The Government are committed of supposedly record economic growth. I know that the to increasing walking and cycling. We have more than hon. Lady is a frequent traveller from Nottingham doubled the funding compared with the previous station, which has benefited, of course, from £100 million- Administration. We added a section to the Infrastructure worth of investment under this Government. We will Act 2015 that places a commitment on Government to take no lessons from her. produce a cycling and walking investment strategy. In addition, our funding for bike and rail has put us on Lincolnshire Roads track to triple the number of cycle places at rail stations.

6. Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): What steps he is Stephen Timms: I am delighted that an excellent taking to develop the north-south road network in campaign forced Ministers to concede the cycling and Lincolnshire. [907876] walking strategy in the Infrastructure Act. When are we now going to get a strategy with proper resources and The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mr John targets? When will Ministers implement the powers in Hayes): It says here that strategic roads play a key part part 6 of the Traffic Management Act 2004, so that in driving economic growth in my Lincolnshire constituency councils outside London are finally able to enforce and elsewhere. Most of the north-south roads in those powers against driving in cycle lanes? Lincolnshire are the responsibility of the local highways authorities. Nevertheless, equipped with our new statutory Mr Goodwill: I am very proud of this Government’s authority to ensure that route strategies are consistent record. Indeed, when we discussed this with officials on and coherent with our national road strategy, I will the Infrastructure Act they said, “But Minister, it doesn’t make certain that my Department works with them and need to be in there. You are doing this already.” I said, the local enterprise partnership to deliver optimal “Put it in anyway to underline that fact.” I am very improvements. By the way, I think a meeting between proud that, while we inherited £2 a head spending on the hon. Gentleman and me might serve that purpose. cycling, we have increased that to £6 a head and in our cycling ambition cities we are already delivering £10 a Nic Dakin: I thank the Minister for his reply. I head. However, I know that driving in cycle lanes is an welcome his offer to meet me and other hon. Members issue of great concern to cyclists, whose safety is paramount. from northern Lincolnshire to discuss the nature of the A15, which is a significant link from the developments Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): I suspect on the Humber port down to Lincoln. It is a neglected the Minister will be too busy in May to attend the Isle of road. The road system south of Lincoln is good; it is Wight walking festival, but if he would like to see this bit of road that really needs looking at. I welcome initiatives that really work to increase the level of cycling, the Minister’s offer and look forward to taking him up and indeed tourism, may I invite him to attend the Isle on it. of Wight cycling festival in September?

Mr Hayes: I know the road well and I think there is a Mr Goodwill: I must make a terrible admission: I case for further improvements on the A15, A16 and have never visited the Isle of Wight, but I now have two A17 in Lincolnshire. Of course, the A15 is Ermine very good reasons for doing so. street, a Roman road. It seems to me we should be no less ambitious for our world than the Romans were for Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): Thanks to this theirs. Government, more than £35 million is being invested in 1065 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 1066 roads in Basingstoke to reduce congestion. Will the The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mr John Minister explain what he will be doing to ensure that Hayes): A round-table discussion was held with Transport that important investment will also benefit cyclists? for the North, local authorities and other interested stakeholders at the end of February 2015 regarding the Mr Goodwill: We have made it absolutely clear that scope of the northern trans-Pennine strategic study. all our new road schemes must be cycle-proofed to That study will consider the possible dualling of the ensure that we do not have a situation where a new A69 or the A66, or both, and technical work will start roundabout or bypass prevents cyclists from making in the summer of 2015. their journeys too. Guy Opperman: Dualling the A69 is needed for the Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): long-term economic plan of the true north and is Confidence in road safety is key to increasing rates of supported by all the local MPs and businesses, and by a cycling and walking, but after decades of progress, last number of petitions put forward by constituents of year saw three consecutive increases in road deaths. mine and constituents in Carlisle. My hon. Friend the Answers to parliamentary questions have revealed a Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson) and I were able dramatic reduction in the number of prosecutions for to show those to the Under-Secretary, my hon. Friend dangerous drink-driving and mobile offences at the the Member for Devizes (Claire Perry), last week, and I wheel. With the number of traffic officers down by 23% urge the Department to keep acting on them. since 2010 and apparently two years without any at all in Devon and Cornwall, whether these things are the Mr Hayes: You know, Mr Speaker, that Ruskin said fault of Transport Ministers, Home Office Ministers or that quality is never an accident and always involves even the Prime Minister himself, is it not the reality that intelligent effort, and my hon. Friend’s effort has been the Government have failed to protect front-line policing intelligence at its very height. He is right that this road, and keep our roads safe? Is it not right for the next which runs alongside Hadrian’s wall, is an important Labour Government to reintroduce proper targets to route, for the reasons he gave—for the well-being of cut the number of deaths and serious injuries on our local people and the local economy.That is well understood roads? by this Minister and by this Government.

Mr Goodwill: We do have targets for the Highways Mr Speaker: From the Romans to Ruskin: the right Agency network, which we have control over. Other hon. Gentleman, who is, by common consent in the roads are the responsibility of highways agencies. When House, an extraordinary individual, never disappoints. I stood at the Opposition Dispatch Box five years ago and put it to the Labour Government that we should introduce drug-driving legislation, they said it was A27: Worthing and Lancing impossible. I am proud to say that on Monday this week we gave the police the tools they need to prosecute those 10. Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) who put other road users in danger by drug-driving, (Con): What recent progress has been made on the and we now have the legislation on the statute book to proposed improvements to the A27 between Worthing do that—something that Labour said was impossible. and Lancing. [907883]

Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): I note that the The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mr John Minister has not been to the Isle of Wight, but has he Hayes): Prior to the announcement of the road investment been to Ribble Valley, where we have some of the best strategy in December 2014, I had the joy of touring the cycling areas and walking routes through some of the A27. Since then, the Highways Agency has started to greatest beauty that one will find in England? Does he realise our commitment to improve that road at Worthing believe, like me, that if we can encourage more youngsters, and Lancing. To date, agency officers have held initial in particular, to cycle and to walk, that could help with meetings with key stakeholders and begun work on the the problem of obesity, and that perhaps we could get detailed traffic models required for this exciting scheme’s Government, schools and local authorities working together development. to encourage people to have step monitors to give them some focus so that they can become healthier human beings? Tim Loughton: The Minister will recall that there was dancing in the streets back in December when the Secretary of State announced the enhancements to the Mr Goodwill: I have indeed been to Ribble Valley, A27 around Arundel and Worthing. That dancing has which is a very beautiful part of the country despite not subsided a little as the feasibility studies go on. Will he being in Yorkshire. It is very important that we get update the House on progress, on when we will hear young people on their bikes. That is why I am delighted further news about the likely work, and on the possibility that we have delivered 1.6 million Bikeability places, of including some tolling at pinch points and flyovers, mainly to young people, and we expect a further 280,000 including on the old Roman bit? places between April 2015 and March 2016. Mr Hayes: It has been said, Mr Speaker, that I never A69: Dualling disappoint, but I do sometimes surprise. I am delighted, therefore, to tell my hon. Friend that I will not merely 9. Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): What recent update him on progress but can reveal that we will progress his Department has made on the feasibility publish the feasibility study, a result of his efforts and study on dualling of the A69. [907882] our endeavour, immediately. I will let him have this 1067 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 1068 report, which details exactly how we intend to move Duncan Hames: I thank the Minister for that news. forward, shaped and informed by his efforts and those When I led a group of 10 Members of Parliament from of his friends. both sides of the House to meet the Secretary of State before Christmas, we urged him to include in the new Rail Delays: Compensation franchise local services on the existing line between Oxford and Bristol. Does the Minister accept that even a service between Swindon and Bristol would be a great 11. Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): What start in relieving overcrowding on that part of the line, recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of and would be a vital first step towards the reopening of compensation payments to passengers for delayed rail the station at Corsham? travel. [907884] Claire Perry: The hon. Gentleman continues to make The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport a persuasive business case for that new service. As a (Claire Perry): It is absolutely right for passengers to be Nailsea girl who was lucky enough to go from Nailsea compensated when their journeys are delayed. The comprehensive to Oxford university, I can tell the hon. Government have introduced tough new measures to Gentleman that it would have been a great service for ensure that that happens, and compensation payments me. As he knows, the Secretary of State has invited across the network have increased sixfold since 2011. As Members whose constituencies are on the route to work the hon. Lady will know, we are introducing a 30-minute with their local authorities and the local enterprise “delay repay” scheme on lines that have not already been partnership to present a collective business case. He making payments—as well as other enhanced compensation may be right in saying that, as a minimum, a westward opportunities—during franchising negotiations and, when service from Swindon would be helpful. we can, during existing contracts. However, recent estimates by Passenger Focus suggest that only 12% of passengers Topical Questions who are delayed by 30 minutes or more go on to claim compensation. I am determined to address that, and, as T1. [907897] Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): operators will know, I believe that they need to do much If he will make a statement on his departmental more in this respect. responsibilities.

Heidi Alexander: The right hon. Member for Mid The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Patrick Sussex (Sir Nicholas Soames), who is no longer in the McLoughlin): My Department has continued to operate Chamber, was entirely right to call for compensation for apace as we move towards the Dissolution of Parliament. commuters who experience severe disruption because of Last week we introduced the new invitation to tender the works at London Bridge. Overcrowding on trains for the Northern Rail and TransPennine Express services, from Lewisham is even more severe than normal, and is and transferred East Coast back to the private sector. actually dangerous. How can a compensation regime That is a major step in a franchising transformation that pays up only when services are delayed by 30 minutes that places passengers at the heart of services. or more be relevant to my constituents, who can barely We also continue to invest in our roads. Fifteen get on to a train irrespective of whether it is late or not? strategic road schemes have been completed since 2010, and a further 16 are under way. Because local roads are Claire Perry: I genuinely pay tribute to the hon. Lady, equally important, we have committed £6 billion to who is an assiduous campaigner for commuters in her them, up to 2021, in addition to the 27% increase in constituency. It is very refreshing when Members in all funding that has taken place since 2010. Funds for parts of the House participate fully in the cross-party cycling have doubled since 2010, and we are committed summits at which we hold the industry to account. to a new long-term investment strategy. The hon. Lady is right. There is not adequate compensation under the scheme to cover the metro-style Glyn Davies: In my constituency and that of my right train journeys that many of her constituents take. As hon. Friend the Member for North Shropshire she will know, some operators which have similar service (Mr Paterson), there has been a decades-long campaign patterns, such as c2c, have introduced minute-by-minute for a new bypass at Llanymynech, which lies between refunds—or will be doing so—but I intend to continue the two constituencies. Will the Minister join the Welsh to work on a compensation scheme specifically for Government in developing a scheme for that purpose? those affected by the works at London Bridge. Mr McLoughlin: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for Great Western Franchise raising this issue. Such a scheme has been identified in the draft national transport plan for Wales as contributing to access to services. We will discuss the matter further 12. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): When he with Welsh Government officials to assess their priorities, expects negotiations on the Great Western rail franchise but no one could have campaigned harder for it to be to be completed. [907886] examined than my hon. Friend.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport Michael Dugher (Barnsley East) (Lab): This week, (Claire Perry): The hon. Gentleman will be pleased to following the Government’s privatisation of East Coast, learn that we expect to conclude negotiations with First Stagecoach released a trading update announcing that Great Western and to finalise the second directly awarded the privatisation would “significantly enhance” its profits. franchise contract during this month, and expect the We know that the chief executive of Stagecoach, Martin provision of services to start in September. Griffiths, is scraping by on £2.2 million a year—which, 1069 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 1070 by the way, makes him eligible for the Government’s tax genuine mistakes. She is welcome to make her views and cut for millionaires, so his week is getting better and those of her constituents known in that consultation, better. At the same time, Stagecoach is threatening to and I would like to make those changes. withdraw its buses from the north-east, simply because the local transport authority wants to do something T5. [907901] Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): Tactile about the fare rises and bus route cuts that have marked indicator cones play a valuable role in making pedestrian the Government’s failure and broken promises. When crossings safer for all people, and especially those who will Ministers condemn what Stagecoach is doing in the are blind and partially sighted. Unfortunately in Wiltshire north-east? Do we not need a Government who deliver they cannot be sure of finding these cones at pedestrian for the travelling public, not for the Stagecoach crossings when they need them. Will the Government shareholders? incentivise all local authorities to retrofit these tactile indicator cones to pedestrian crossings and open up our Mr McLoughlin: What we need, and what we have, is streets to everyone? a Government who are investing record amounts of money in our transport infrastructure—far more than The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport the last Government invested in both capital projects (Mr Robert Goodwill): Tactile cones are probably one of and revenue projects. I can only take what was said in the best kept secrets of our transport system. If one Transport Times by the editor, David Fowler, in his feels underneath the box on a pelican or puffin crossing, latest edition this week: there is a small cone which, if held, rotates when the “On rail franchising and speed cameras” lights turn to green. It is very helpful for people with Labour’s policies vision problems. They were developed by the university of Nottingham and there are 10,000 out there, and I “seem to be going against the weight of evidence.” encourage local authorities to retrofit as many as possible. We have seen a dramatic improvement in our services, provided by the private sector. The Labour party is so T6. [907902] Sir Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): In opposed to the private sector and everything it stands October last year the Prime Minister visited York and for that it wants to destroy it, on the back of our seeing expressed publicly concern about congestion on the one of the most successful turnarounds of the rail outer ring road, and in January a petition from industry in this country. business leaders in York asking for the dualling of the ring road was delivered to Downing street. What action T3. [907899] Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): I has the Department taken since the petition arrived? am grateful to the Minister of State for meeting me to discuss problems at the A5 Wall island, but while he Mr Goodwill: I had a meeting with the chief executive is considering it will the people’s Minister ask the of North Yorkshire county council, who works closely Highways Agency to look at the other end of the with City of York council, on addressing the problems A5, the congestion from Tamworth to the M42— on the northern ring road, and I hope that any scheme congestion made worse by more traffic trying to merge that is brought forward can also mesh in with the on to the A5 from Pennine way? Hopgrove roundabout project which has already been announced. If City of York council wants to help the Mr Hayes: Every meeting I have had with my hon. motorist it should think back to what it did on Lendal Friend has been a joy, as was the one yesterday. I have bridge and the atrocious way it persecuted motorists diagrammatic and photographic representations of the using that route. issue he raises, which I will deliver to you, Mr Speaker, and make available to Members on request. I will send T8. [907904] Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): I officials not only to look at the matters we discussed recognise this Government’s enormous investment in yesterday, but to look at the matter my hon. Friend our railways, but I am keen to know when we might see raises today, to see what can be done, but I have to some improvements in the London to Portsmouth line. say I think we should act in accordance with his It is still faster to get to Doncaster, which is twice as recommendations, because I know he always champions far. his constituents’ interests. Claire Perry: My hon. Friend will know that the T4. [907900] Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): Fare Portsmouth to London line is not only hugely important evasion is obviously a serious issue for the rail industry, for her constituents but a vital artery for people who are but I have seen a number of recent instances where train travelling up and down through the counties. One problem companies have over-zealously pursued minor cases has been the inability to run longer trains into Waterloo against constituents who have either been given the station, where the “throat” has effectively been blocked wrong information or might have made an innocent for many years. We are now investing to increase platform error. What is the Minister doing with train companies lengths there, to unblock some of that complexity. Also, such as Arriva to ensure that there is clarity for travellers the draft Wessex route study is being undertaken right and to make sure that the rules are applied reasonably? now to determine how faster trains can be run from my hon. Friend’s constituency. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Claire Perry): The hon. Lady raises an important point. T7. [907903] Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): I I recently launched a public consultation on exactly this hope that the Minister will have been given notice by matter, and I have urged the train companies to pursue Baroness Kramer’s office that she is due to sign off such cases where necessary—where there is genuine fare £200 million-worth of funding for a bus rapid transit evasion—but to be much more sensible where there are scheme in Bristol. I am very keen for the overall scheme 1071 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 1072 to go ahead, but we have real concerns about one and the facilities of an RAF base, and I believe that it is particular element of it in my constituency. Will the the ideal candidate. I hope that the Department for Minister tell me whether it is too late to seek alternatives Transport will support Machrihanish’s case. to that element, which would ruin a wonderful community food project on my patch? Mr Goodwill: We are certainly looking at all the candidates in Scotland, Wales and England, and we Mr McLoughlin: If I am correct, the hon. Lady is believe that Britain will be at the forefront of the space talking about the opposition to the M32 bus-only junction. race to get satellites into space cheaply and to introduce It is not for the Government to determine the design of space tourism. the scheme, which is being promoted by the local authority as it knows the area best. Local authorities should listen Several hon. Members rose— to the campaigns led by local Members of Parliament relating to that scheme, to see whether the concerns can Mr Speaker: Order. I am sorry, but we must now be addressed, but it would be difficult to change the move on. scheme at this late stage and I know that the hon. Lady would not want to put it in danger of not being signed off in the next few days.

T9. [907905] Robert Jenrick (Newark) (Con): Ever HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION since the Romans built the Fosse way and the Great North road through our town, road hauliers have been an integral part of Newark’s economy. However, those The right hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and hauliers have had to compete with foreign competitors Easter Ross, representing the House of Commons on an uneven playing field for too long. Will the Commission, was asked— Minister update us on the success of the HGV road House of Commons Management user levy? Mr Goodwill: They say that Rome was not built in a 1. Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): day, but I was not the foreman on that particular job. I What recent representations he has received from am delighted to report to the House that, despite being catering, maintenance and other staff of the House on told when we were in opposition that we could not the management of the House. [907887] introduce a lorry road user charge for foreign trucks, we have done so. We predicted that it would yield £25 million John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross): in revenue, but it is on track to yield more than £45 million The Commissioner has received no recent formal in the first year, levelling the playing field for hard-working representations from staff in those areas on the management British hauliers. of the House. The staff have, however, had a number of opportunities to express their views to the management, T10. [907906] Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab): including in the recent staff survey. Sadly, but unsurprisingly, the Government ignored the views of the people of the north-east when they Mr Sheerman: The right hon. Gentleman will know ploughed ahead with the privatisation of the east coast of my long campaign for the House to be not just an main line. Will they back the wishes of the people of average or good employer but the very best exemplar of the north-east in introducing a quality contract scheme an employer. It is no secret that I want us to adopt the for the operation of our bus services, so that the buses John Lewis model for the staff in this place, who work can be put into the people’s hands and taken out of the so hard for us. When are we going to engage those hands of profiteers? members of staff and stop employing them on short-term contracts or using agency staff on a long-term basis? Mr McLoughlin: The simple fact is that we will see Let us have secure employment and a decent way of fantastic benefits from the new operation on the east living. coast main line. We will see more services to towns that have not been served before, and more services to the John Thurso: I have enjoyed throughout this Parliament north-east. One of the things I was keen to do last week, the exchanges I have had with the hon. Gentleman on in relation to the invitation to tender and to the north-east, this matter, and the direction of travel he indicates is was to consign the Pacer trains to the rubbish heap. It is one that we are very much seeking to take. The recent important to get rid of them, and that is something that leadership and management survey shows that on all this Government, unlike the last Government, will deliver leadership and management criteria we have improved on. The bus scheme for Newcastle and the north-east is our score over that of the civil service generally, and on currently before the Department, and it would be nine out of 10 such criteria we have improved our score inappropriate for me to take a view on it at this time. on last year’s. There have been some uncertainties, for Several hon. Members rose— example, on the security services, and we have done the right thing in bringing those in hand. That has reduced Mr Speaker: Time is against us, but I call Mr Alan uncertainty and is very much in line with what he Reid. wishes. I am sure that in the next Parliament the Commission will continue in that direction. Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am glad that Machrihanish is on the Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden) (Con): Does shortlist to become the UK’s first spaceport. It is far my right hon. Friend agree that one of the best ways in from any centres of population, it has a 3-km runway which Members of this House could show their appreciation 1073 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 1074 for their staff and ensure the security of their employment Government Accountability is by using our facilities much more heavily than they do? 3. Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of John Thurso: I entirely agree with my right hon. parliamentary mechanisms in holding the Government Friend and salute all he has done with his Committee to to account since 2010. [907889] make that a realistic possibility. The First Secretary of State and Leader of the House of Commons (Mr William Hague): Changes introduced during this Parliament have increased the House’s ability LEADER OF THE HOUSE to hold the Government to account. The introduction of the Backbench Business Committee, the election of Select Committee Chairs and allowing adequate time for debating legislation have all contributed to an increase The Leader of the House was asked— in scrutiny of the Government. Public Bill Committees Mr Nuttall: As these are the last questions to the Leader of the House before my right hon. Friend leaves 2. Sir Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): How many the House, may I just thank him personally, and on sittings of Public Bill Committees took place in the last behalf of his many admirers in my constituency, for his Parliament; and how many such sittings have taken 26 years of service to this House and to the country? place in this Parliament to date. [907888] Does my right hon. Friend agree that the value of the Backbench Business Committee, to which he referred, The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom can be demonstrated by reference to the debate it gave Brake): There were 935 sittings of Public Bill Committees me time for on the holding of a referendum on our in the 2005 to 2010 Parliament, and there have been membership of the European Union? Even though the 797 sittings so far in the current Parliament. motion was defeated at the time, it subsequently led to Government policy being changed, at least in the Sir Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): It is clear that Conservative part of the coalition. the work rate of Public Bill Committees in this Parliament has been considerably lower than that in the previous Mr Hague: I, in return, pay tribute to my hon. Friend Parliament, and I say that as a member of the Panel of and to his constituents; I have never forgotten the black Chairs. Will the Government now look at allocating pudding I ate in Bury market during the last general more time for Public Bill Committees to consider private election campaign and I look forward to still more in Members’ Bills, so that more private Members’ Bills get the future. through the House and get Royal Assent? The Backbench Business Committee debates have often had an influence. I hope the debate he refers to Tom Brake: First, I should perhaps correct the impression will have been the precursor of a referendum on the that the hon. Gentleman wants to give that this Parliament European Union before the end of 2017, held by a has not been busy. The 2010 to 2015 Parliament will sit Conservative Government. But other debates on issues, for 734 days, which compares with the 718 in the 2005 such as VAT on air ambulances, Hillsborough and to 2010 Parliament. Of course, for individual Bills there contaminated blood, have also contributed to changes have been more Public Committee days or sittings than in Government policy. there were under the previous Government. I have heard what he has said about private Members’ Bills. I Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Does the Leader of the know that the Procedure Committee has some strong House agree that one of the essential ingredients in views about private Members’ Bills, and I suspect that effectively holding the Government to account is Back we may have to return to the matter in the next Parliament. Benchers who are prepared to be critical of the Government and to vote against them from time to time? Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab): The reality is that too many Bills have been leaving the Mr Hague: Of course, up to point. My hon. Friend’s House of Commons without adequate scrutiny and question allows me to pay tribute to him, as he is have to be salvaged in the other place. My hon. Friend obviously referring to himself. I do pay tribute to him the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) has proposed a and would only point out that there are many, many new stage for Commons scrutiny—the whole House occasions on which Government policies merit support scrutiny stage. Does the Deputy Leader of the House as well. accept that we need to improve scrutiny in this place, rather than simply using the Lords to bail us out? Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): For once in my lifetime, I agree with an intervention of the hon. Tom Brake: I do, of course, accept that in this House Member for Shipley (Philip Davies). Would not holding we need scrutiny, but the Labour party is responsible for the Government to account be more effective if Government scrutiny and what we have seen in this Parliament is that Members resisted the urgings of the Whips to put far more Bills have finished early than was the case in questions to the Prime Minister, particularly at PMQs, the previous Parliament. I am afraid that is because the or to Ministers on other occasions? That does not show Opposition are not undertaking their job of scrutiny independence of mind and it certainly does not show effectively. the sort of accountability that is required. In some 1075 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 1076 respects, it makes a mockery of Prime Minister’s questions, The Deputy Leader of the House of Commons (Tom which is the unique way of holding the Government—and Brake): Since the launch of the Government’s e-petitions the Head of Government—to account. It should not be site, more than 3.7 million individuals have given their undermined in the way I have described. support to the 37 petitions that reached the qualifying 100,000 signature threshold for debate. The topics of 32 Mr Hague: The hon. Gentleman is speaking after two have been the subject of debate in the House of Commons, of my hon. Friends who are very skilled at resisting any most as a direct result of the e-petition. orchestration by the Whips or anybody else. I do not think he can accuse them of that. I must say that I have Sir Greg Knight: Will the Minister join me in noticed on occasions a certain degree of co-ordination—not congratulating the Procedure Committee on its work on necessarily very successful—of Prime Minister’s questions this and other issues? Does he agree that the introduction on the Opposition Benches. of e-petitions has perhaps done more than anything else to start to reconnect this Parliament with the public? Tom Brake: Yes, I am very happy to join my right HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION hon. Friend in congratulating the Procedure Committee on the work it has done on this issue. It is a fact that since August 2011, more than 10 million individuals The right hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and have signed one or more of the 30,000 petitions initiated. Easter Ross, representing the House of Commons I, and I hope all Members of the House, look forward Commission, was asked— to a Petitions Committee being established in the next Transgender Visitors Parliament, which will allow perhaps a wider range of petitions to come before the House and, for instance, for petitioners to come and give oral evidence to that 4. Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): What Committee. training and advice is provided to House staff on how to deal with transgender people visiting the parliamentary HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION estate. [907890] The right hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross): Easter Ross, representing the House of Commons All House staff dealing with the public are expected to Commission, was asked— undertake mandatory diversity and inclusion training, and the same standards are expected from all service Parliamentary Estate: Recycling providers, including the Metropolitan Police Service. 6. Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): What proportion of waste on the parliamentary estate was Kerry McCarthy: On 4 February, there was an LGBT recycled in (a) 2010 and (b) the most recent period for history month event here. I had complaints made to me which figures are available. [907894] by two people who attended the event that security guards at the Cromwell Green entrance had repeatedly John Thurso (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross): addressed them as “sir”, even though they had made it The percentage of all waste arising from the parliamentary quite clear that they did not wish to be addressed in that estate that was recycled or recovered in 2010 was 52.1%. way. The Met is looking at this—I think the House of In 2014, it was 62.8%. This shows a fairly considerable Commons Commission has referred it to the Met—but improvement; however, we are a little below what we will the right hon. Gentleman make sure that they do need to be to make sure we are on track for our 2020 not have to suffer such treatment in future? target.

John Thurso: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for Mr Hollobone: Which recyclable waste streams are in bringing that case to our attention. Indeed, as I believe practice the least recycled, and what are the plans to she knows, this has been referred to the Metropolitan improve that in the next Parliament? Police Service, whose staff these were. It is taking this John Thurso: My hon. Friend asks me a question to extremely seriously and we have made it clear to the which I do not have an accurate answer—or, rather, Met how seriously we take it. As far as our own staff are to which I do not have an answer. I am sure that an concerned, diversity and inclusion is a key part of the accurate answer exists, but I just do not have it. I should core induction and training for all visitor assistants and make that distinction quite clear. However, what we do all staff generally. We take these matters very seriously is operate to the waste hierarchy, of which I am sure he and we are determined to make sure that this is not is aware. First, we try to ensure that the waste does not repeated. happen. When it does happen, we seek to recycle it in the most effective way possible. We only dispose of it if it is absolutely necessary. LEADER OF THE HOUSE LEADER OF THE HOUSE The Leader of the House was asked— The Leader of the House was asked— E-petitions Select Committees 5. Sir Greg Knight (East Yorkshire) (Con): How 7. Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): What many e-petitions which have been signed by 100,000 or assessment he has made of the effectiveness of Select more people have been debated in the House? [907893] Committees since 2010. [907895] 1077 Oral Answers5 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 1078

The First Secretary of State and Leader of the House to the Floor of the House. We will be announcing in of Commons (Mr William Hague): During this Parliament, Business Questions a debate on the Floor of the House reforms have been implemented to elect Chairs of Select on two recommendations of the European Scrutiny Committees and to allow them to make statements on Committee. Of course it is important for Governments the Floor of the House and in Westminster Hall. That to respond constructively. has led to a stronger mandate for Chairs of Select Committees, increased visibility of their recommendations Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): Select Committees and therefore a corresponding increase in their effectiveness. are a highly effective way of holding Governments to account. Does the Leader of the House agree with the Chris Heaton-Harris: Using his 26 years of experience all-party group on women in Parliament, ably led by my of this place, will the Leader of the House agree that the hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth election of Select Committee Chairs has been a significant (Mary Macleod), that, on the day we will be debating development in the reform of this place and in giving international women’s day, it is time to set up a women power back to Back Benchers? What ideas does he have and equalities Select Committee, which is led by this to give more power to Back Benchers in the future? House, to ensure that continued progress on these important matters is maintained? Mr Hague: It has been a very significant reform. Indeed, it is one of the most significant reforms since the establishment in 1979 of the Select Committee Mr Hague: The all-party group on women in Parliament system as we know it today. Both that reform in 1979 made some very interesting and important and this reform in 2010 took place under Conservative recommendations that need to be considered by parties Leaders of the House of Commons. Members across in the House as well as by the House as a whole. With the House will continue to use the increased opportunities regard to the specific recommendation to set up a Select that are now provided for greater independence for Committee, it is not feasible to do so in the final few Back-Bench Members, but consideration of what weeks of a Parliament; that is a matter for a new procedural changes are needed for that are really now Parliament. Personally, I have a lot of sympathy with matters for the next Parliament. the idea, but it will be necessary to find a reduction elsewhere in the number of Select Committees to Mr Speaker: I confess that I have several ideas on that accommodate a new one. front. I will send the hon. Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton-Harris) a copy of my lecture to the Hansard Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): Does the Society of last Monday. If he fancies a cup of tea with Leader of the House agree that sufficient time should me at any time I am happy to encourage him. be allowed for the pre-legislative scrutiny by Select Committees? For example, the Political and Constitutional Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): I speak as a Reform Committee, of which I am a member, was member both of the Public Administration Committee critical of the way in which the Parliamentary Voting and of the European Scrutiny Committee. Does the System and Constituencies Bill was steamrollered through Leader of the House accept that the effectiveness of Parliament by the Deputy Prime Minister in 2011. such Committees depends more on the Government responding to their conclusions and recommendations Mr Hague: It is of course important to carry out such than on what the Select Committees do? scrutiny whenever possible. In this Parliament, we have a good record in that regard; there has been more Mr Hague: Of course that is an important part of it. pre-legislative scrutiny than has happened before under The Government do respond thoroughly to Select any previous Parliament. There will still be scope for Committee reports and bring many recommendations improvement in Parliaments to come. 1079 5 MARCH 2015 Business of the House 1080

Business of the House THURSDAY 12 MARCH—General debate on the relationship between police and children, followed by general debate on violence against women and girls. 10.34 am MONDAY 16 MARCH—General debate on a petition relating to veterans’ pensions. Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): Will the Leader of the House give us the business for next week? THURSDAY 19 MARCH—General debate on the future of local newspapers. MONDAY 23 MARCH—General debate on an e-petition The First Secretary of State and Leader of the House relating to proposed increase in fees for nurses and of Commons (Mr William Hague): The business for next midwives. week is as follows: MONDAY 9MARCH—Remaining stages of the Armed Ms Eagle: I thank the Leader of the House for Forces (Service Complaints and Financial Assistance) announcing next week’s business. On Sunday, we will Bill [Lords], followed by consideration of Lords amendments celebrate international women’s day. We have our pink to the Consumer Rights Bill, followed by motion to bus, which is generating fantastic enthusiasm wherever approve a European document relating to the Commission it goes in the country, and half our candidates in target work programme 2015, followed by general debate on seats are women. Will the Leader of the House tell us the forthcoming nuclear non-proliferation treaty review what the Conservative party is doing to involve women conference. The subject for this debate was recommended properly in politics? by the Backbench Business Committee. On Monday, we will consider Lords amendments to TUESDAY 10 MARCH—Consideration of Lords the Consumer Rights Bill, including proposals for a amendments to the Deregulation Bill, followed by motion crackdown on ticket touting. Despite widespread evidence to approve statutory instruments relating to counter- of touts fleecing the public and calls for action from terrorism, followed by motion to approve a European across the leisure industry, the Government have spent document relating to subsidiarity and proportionality more than a year opposing the measures and the Culture and the Commission’s relations with national Parliaments, Secretary described ticket touts admiringly as “classic followed by debate on a motion relating to school entrepreneurs”. Will the Leader of the House confirm funding. The subject for this debate was recommended that following their humiliating climbdown in the Lords by the Backbench Business Committee. the Government will support these proposals in the WEDNESDAY 11 MARCH—Opposition day (19th allotted Commons and finally protect the public from this day). There will be a debate on a motion in the name of exploitation? the Democratic Unionist Party. Subject to be announced. There are strong and powerful arguments in favour of THURSDAY 12 MARCH—Debate on a motion relating plain packaging for cigarettes, but this Government to defence spending, followed by debate on a motion have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into relating to education regulations and faith schools. The accepting them. First, they were for a vote on plain subjects for both debates were recommended by the packaging, then when they took tobacco lobbyist Lynton Backbench Business Committee. Crosby in to the heart of Downing street they were suddenly against it. Now after five years of inaction, in FRIDAY 13 MARCH—The House will not be sitting. the dying days of this Parliament, they are for it again. I The provisional business for the week commencing note that the plain packaging regulations will finally be 16 March will include: taken in Committee on 9 March, but why did the MONDAY 16 MARCH—Motion to approve statutory Leader not schedule a debate on the Floor of the instruments relating to counter-terrorism, followed by House? Is it because he knows that his party is split motion to approve the draft Drug Driving (Specified right down the middle on this important public health Limits) England and Wales (Amendment) Regulations measure but he does not want the public to notice? 2015, followed by the Chairman of Ways and Means Yesterday the Prime Minister repeatedly refused to has named opposed private business for consideration. acknowledge his complete failure to keep his “no ifs, no TUESDAY 17 MARCH—Consideration of Lords buts” promise on net migration, which is not in the tens amendments to the Modern Slavery Bill, followed by of thousands that he promised but nearly 300,000 this motion to approve a statutory instrument relating to year alone. In a desperate attempt at a diversionary counter-terrorism, followed by debate on motions relating tactic, he treated us to a selective list of things that he to the reports from the Committee on Standards on the thinks he got right, while continuing to refuse to make code of conduct and on the standards system in the himself available for scrutiny on any of them in a House of Commons, followed by business to be nominated head-to-head TV debate with my right hon. Friend the by the Backbench Business Committee. Leader of the Opposition. I greatly enjoyed the Leader of the House’s speech at WEDNESDAY 18 MARCH—My right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer will open his Budget the Press Gallery lunch last week, decoding what he statement. called civil service-ese and revealing that when civil servants say, “We are scaling up our response,” they THURSDAY 19 MARCH—Continuation of the Budget actually mean, “We never expected this to happen.” So I debate. have been doing my own decoding of the Prime Minister’s FRIDAY 20 MARCH—Continuation of the Budget debate. pre-election promises. When he said: I should also like to inform the House that the “We have absolutely no plans to raise VAT”, business in Westminster Hall for the remainder of March what he really meant was, “ I will raise VAT when the will be: election is safely over.” When he said, “We will not 1081 Business of the House5 MARCH 2015 Business of the House 1082 balance the books on the backs of the poor”, what he the country and asked what the Government have been really meant was, “We will not balance the books at doing. We have been achieving more women in work all.” When he said in 2009: than ever before in history—up by 839,000 since May “I have always believed in live television debates. I think they 2010. There are more women-led businesses than ever can help enliven our democracy.”, before in the history of the country and 37% of start-up what he really meant was, “I will only debate with loans are now going to women. There are more women people when I’m not scared I might lose.” on FTSE boards than ever before in the history of the country, with no all-male boards remaining. More than In his pre-2010 election contract with the British half the people lifted out of income tax altogether—58% people, the Prime Minister wrote: of them—are women, and the state pension reforms “If we don’t deliver our side of the bargain, vote us out in five have particularly benefited women, who have historically years’ time.” done poorly under the complicated two-tier system of Mr Speaker, there are only nine weeks to go. pensions. That is a tremendous record of achievement, The Liberal Democrats are no better. This week we which is superior to any previous Government’s record have learned what their red line in any future coalition in assisting the welfare of the women of this country. talks would be. Having campaigned to scrap all tuition The hon. Lady mentioned students—rather bravely, fees during the last election, only to vote to triple them in a week in which the Joseph Rowntree Foundation after the election, they now plan to veto Labour’s plan said that Labour’s proposed reform of tuition fees to cut fees by a third and increase grants for poor students. I wonder whether we could have that in writing, “sounds progressive. . . Sadly, it isn’t.” because then we will know for sure that they will do the It exact opposite. “will mainly benefit mid- to high-earning graduates who would It is not surprising that the Lib Dem right hon. otherwise have been repaying all or most of their loans.” Member for Lewes (Norman Baker) has decided that he That is the position bizarrely adopted by the Labour needs to take matters into his own hands. On Tuesday party on which it is now condemned to fight the election. he held an Adjournment debate on the plight of endangered species, and he has written about it on Politics Home. It was brave of the hon. Lady, too, to mention He laments: migration, as it was a completely open door under the “The facts are stark. … numbers have fallen … the poachers previous Government which brought millions of people are highly organised. … we are in a race against time.” to settle in this country. Before long, the Liberal Democrats will be going the Following my extensive translation of civil service-ese way of the woolly mammoth. at the Press Gallery lunch, the hon. Lady did a translation I have learned this week that the Conservative party of Prime Ministerial statements, but I have my own is busy preparing for a Labour victory in May. The translation of what the Leader of the Opposition was Chancellor has apparently hatched a long-term cunning saying yesterday when he was calling for a debate, which plan to curb the regicidal instincts of the Conservative means, “I am desperate because the election is slipping party—good luck with that—and keep the Prime Minister away from me and I have nothing else to ask about at on as Leader after 7 May even if it loses. According to all.” That is the translation of that. When I was Leader one Back Bencher, “He either wins or he goes.” Once of the Opposition in 2001, I recall asking Tony Blair for again showing his strategic prowess, the man he has a television debate. There was not even an offer of chosen to assist him in this mission to avoid a leadership a debate from Tony Blair, not even the pretence of a battle is the ever-absent Tory Chief Whip. Apparently debate. There was a very clear “No debate whatsoever.” they are going to form a protective ring around their This Prime Minister is offering a debate and that is an leader and claim that he won a moral victory even if the offer that should be taken up, which was never offered Conservatives lose. Is this why the Chief Whip is never by Tony Blair in similar circumstances. here, Mr Speaker? He is too busy forming a protective Talking of debates, the hon. Lady asked about the ring around the Prime Minister to bother to come to debate on the plain packaging of cigarettes. As she this Chamber. Having just listed some of their broken knows, because of EU procedures it has been possible promises, I feel I should offer some comfort to the to lay regulations but not to make them until after Conservatives. If there is one target that I am confident 3 March. That is the reason for the timing. It is normal the Tories will not miss, it is the one on the Prime for such statutory instruments to be considered in a Minister’s back. Committee after going through the scrutiny procedures and, subject to the deliberations of that Committee, it Mr Hague: The shadow Leader may not be in a will then be possible for the whole House to vote on the strong position this week to talk about party leaders outcome of that Committee’s deliberations. since this is the week in which the Doncaster Free Press I should have thought that the hon. Lady would released its power list and revealed that the Leader of welcome the Government’s move in the other place on the Opposition was the fourth most influential person ticketing. She did not ask about the economic situation in Doncaster, ranking, interestingly, behind the star of in the country, but what has defined the past couple of One Direction who just happened to grow up in Doncaster. weeks is what has happened on the economy. Today we He is regarded as having less influence on the town than heard that new car sales for February were up 12% on that. We will return to these matters in a moment. last year. This week we heard that average household On the hon. Lady’s specific questions, she asked, incomes have returned to pre-recession levels. In the rightly, about international women’s day, which we look past two weeks we have seen growth in manufacturing forward to commemorating on Sunday. She referred to and construction up, public sector borrowing fall, and the pink bus that has caused so much amusement around small firms win more than a quarter of Government 1083 Business of the House5 MARCH 2015 Business of the House 1084

[Mr Hague] Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): Opposition Members are proud of our policy commitment contracts—the highest percentage ever. That is very not only to reduce student fees from £9,000 to £6,000, clear evidence as we move to the end of the Parliament but to increase maintenance grants. However, it is unclear that a long-term economic plan is right for this country what the Government would do to better support students and is working. and universities. Will the Leader of the House find time for a debate so that my constituents can get a better Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): My understanding of what the Government would do? Will right hon. Friend is known for writing bestsellers, in one he also make a commitment that his party will not seek of which he wrote about the history of Parliament to lift the fee cap? sitting in York. One of the issues that will exercise both Houses in the next Parliament is where to sit while major works are taking place here. I hope that he will Mr Hague: We have delivered record numbers of look no further than his and our main city of York for students and university applications, against many that purpose. predictions, following the change in the policy on tuition fees introduced early in this Parliament, so that change Mr Hague: The suggestion is dear to the hearts of all is standing the test of time. Of course, these matters are us Yorkshiremen, although I have to tell my hon. Friend legitimate subjects for debate in the general election that it might not go down very well in Lancashire. If it campaign. Given that there are only three weeks remaining becomes necessary for the House to move, I suspect that before Dissolution, it is becoming unlikely that we will somewhere closer to its current location might be found. be able to have an additional debate on the subject. The important decisions on restoration and renewal need to be made in the next Parliament—it would not Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): The Leader of the be appropriate to make them now—so I cannot give her House was rather unfair to the Leader of the Opposition; a definitive answer. he did indeed come fourth in the Doncaster power list, but it was churlish of my right hon. Friend not to Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): mention that he has gone up two places since last year, Has the right hon. Gentleman seen my early-day motion when he was sixth. Last August The Times reported that 840 on Sejal Koyani and the London School of Business the Prime Minister had promised to double magistrates’ and Finance? sentencing powers from six to 12 months by the end of [That this House condemns in the strongest terms this Parliament, which was a very welcome announcement. Sejal Koyani of the London School of Business and Given that we are rapidly running out of time, can the Finance, who has stolen thousands of pounds from a Leader of the House tell us when that will be brought constituent of the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton, into effect in the last few weeks of this Parliament? and has failed over a period of months to reply to letters from the right hon. Member; calls on the Home Secretary Mr Hague: On my hon. Friend’s first point, that is a to remove any recognition from this criminal, on the faster rate of advance than normal by the Leader of the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills to Opposition and it means that he may be in with a look into these larcenous activities, and on the Metropolitan chance of running Doncaster by 2018. I welcome my Police to investigate; and advises any potential clients to hon. Friend’s analysis. have nothing to do with these thieves.] Behind it lurks the theft of £3,600 from my constituent, I cannot give my hon. Friend a specific answer about which that thief and that college promised to give back when the Government’s commitment will take effect, 45 days after last October. They have not got back to but I will draw his question to the attention of my him or to me, despite repeated letters. They still have ministerial colleagues and ensure that he gets a direct that stolen £3,600, which belongs to my constituent. reply. May we have action on that in the way I request in the early-day motion as a lesson to teach those people that Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): The Leader they cannot steal? of the House is well aware that a number of colleagues have raised the issue of the Chagos islands many times Mr Hague: The right hon. Gentleman speaks up during business questions. When he was Foreign Secretary, strongly for his constituent and has obviously been he commissioned the KPMG report on the feasibility of pursing the case assiduously, as usual. I will certainly right of return. We are waiting for a statement to be refer his early-day motion, and the fact that he has made to the House so that Ministers can be questioned raised the matter on the Floor of the House, to my and the issue debated. It was promised that the issue ministerial colleagues so that they, too, can investigate. would be resolved before the end of this Parliament, but we have only a short time to go. Sir George Young (North West Hampshire) (Con): If the prospects of a debate in this Parliament on the options for English devolution are receding, can my Mr Hague: This is an important report on an important right hon. Friend at least publish the draft Standing issue and the hon. Gentleman and I have often discussed Orders for his preferred option? it. Indeed, as Foreign Secretary I set up the new feasibility study. A very extensive and detailed report has now Mr Hague: I think that there is a good chance that I been produced, and my ministerial colleagues in the will be able to do that. I have been working on the draft Foreign Office are considering it in detail. It will also Standing Orders. Whether or not there is a debate, it is need to be considered across the whole of Government. very important that people are able to see the detail of I am sure it is better to look at it in great detail than to what is proposed, so I will give further consideration to rush to decisions about it, so I cannot give the hon. my right hon. Friend’s request. Gentleman a timetable for any announcement, but I 1085 Business of the House5 MARCH 2015 Business of the House 1086 will tell my colleagues that he is asking about it and that and are good value for money. It is unlikely that we will there is interest in it in Parliament. We will consider it be able to have a debate on the issue at this stage of the within Government as rapidly as possible. Parliament, but the House will have noted my hon. Friend’s strong interest in it and I have every confidence Mr David Heath (Somerton and Frome) (LD): Despite he will be able to return to it in the new Parliament. the fact that I have made it plain that I am standing down at the next election, inexplicably I am getting a lot Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab): May we have of e-mails asking me to commit to opposing things in a statement on what constitutes “offshore”? The Health the next Parliament, particularly the Transatlantic Trade and Social Care Information Centre, the national provider and Investment Partnership, which, strangely enough, I of IT for health services, has apparently objected to have not seen the details of because nobody else has—it CGI—a Canadian-owned but Bridgend-based IT has not been negotiated yet. For the avoidance of doubt, company—bidding for a health IT contract on the very yet again, will the Leader of the House arrange for a bizarre basis that Wales is offshore. May we have Government statement—he may care to make it right clarification? The Severn is wide, but not that wide. now—making it clear that TTIP has nothing whatsoever to do with any risk to the future of the NHS? Mr Hague: Having recently purchased a property in Wales, I can confirm that it is not offshore. That can be Mr Hague: It is absolutely clear that it is for local regarded not only as a personal statement, but as an NHS commissioners to take decisions on which providers official statement from the Government. The notion of should deliver health care services in the best interests Wales being offshore seems a strange one in relation of their patients. TTIP will not change that in any to the matter the hon. Lady raises. It would be best to respect. I can give my hon. Friend not only a Government pursue it directly with Health Ministers, and I will tell statement, but the statement of the EU Trade them she has raised it in the House. Commissioner, who said on 13 September: “Public services are always exempted—there is no problem Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): The director about exemption. The argument is abused in your country for of ExxonMobil Chemical, in my constituency, has written political reasons but it has no grounds.” to the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and That should be reassuring to people around the country Skills about a threat to the industry caused by the who might think there is some merit in the arguments Danish Environmental Protection Agency’s decision to put by trade unions and the Labour party, which are seek a further assessment of a plasticiser, a key product designed to scare people not to arrive at a good trade that has just been given a relatively clean bill of health deal for this country. by the appropriate European body. The director has yet to receive a reply, but the House needs an urgent statement Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) from the Secretary of State about this threat to such an (SNP): May I draw the attention of the Government important industry in Hampshire. and the House to a new film drama, “A Dark Reflection”, which is about air that is contaminated by organo- Mr Hague: The industry is very important for Hampshire phosphates entering the aircraft cabin as a result of oil and, indeed, the whole of the United Kingdom. I am breakdowns in engines, which is where the cabin air is sure it provides employment for many of my hon. drawn from or, from auxiliary power units or even Friend’s constituents, so he is quite right to raise the de-icing fluids. Is it not time to have a debate about issue. I cannot give him an immediate answer, but I will fitting air detection systems to aircraft to protect passengers refer his interest to my hon. Friends at the Department and crew from aerotoxic poisoning? for Business, Innovation and Skills. Although we do not have much of this Parliament left, there will be questions Mr Hague: That is, of course, a wholly legitimate to the Business Secretary on 26 March. I will ensure my question to ask. We have just had questions to Transport hon. Friend’s urgent interest is registered with BIS, and Ministers and the hon. Gentleman’s question sounded a he may be able to return to it then. little bit like it had been left over from that. I have no doubt that Transport Ministers will notice that he has Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): The raised the issue. I cannot offer him a debate in the First Secretary of State has always seemed to me a remaining small number of days before the end of the pretty robust and courageous politician, so will he join Parliament, but he has now managed to raise the issue me in calling for an early debate about what many on the Floor of the House. people in my constituency and this country believe to be their right—to see the leaders of the great parties having Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con): I have the a robust and courageous discussion on television so honour of being the chairman of the all-party group on that the British people can make an informed decision? fire safety and rescue. Given that the Chief Fire Officers What is going on when this House remains nearly mute, Association is very concerned that very few newly built after what has become almost a constitutional convention schools have automatic sprinkler systems fitted, will my is taken away by one person—the not so courageous right hon. Friend find time for a debate on the issue? Prime Minister?

Mr Hague: I am advised that the Government’s policy Mr Hague: I do not think that constitutional conventions is that such sprinkler systems should be installed in new are set by broadcasters in this country.The hon. Gentleman, school buildings where there is a real and significant with whom I have debated so many issues over the risk, as identified in a fire risk assessment. There will years, was in the House throughout the time that Tony also be other situations where sprinklers are fitted because Blair was Prime Minister. When he refused to have any they form an integral part of the school building design debates on television, I do not recall the hon. Gentleman 1087 Business of the House5 MARCH 2015 Business of the House 1088

[Mr Hague] leading role in fighting this. As Foreign Secretary, in February last year I hosted an international summit on rising to say that Tony Blair ought to reconsider his the issue, which the President of Tanzania addressed. I position, that such a debate was vital to the British now chair a taskforce on how to prevent the transportation constitution or that it was an important right of his of illegal ivory, at the request of His Royal Highness the constituents during an election campaign. I assure him Duke of Cambridge. As my hon. Friend says, it is that his constituents will see a great deal of all the party ultimately a matter of demand in countries such as leaders during the general election campaign—which China, Vietnam and Thailand, and it is welcome that can only improve the prospects of the Conservative such issues are being debated with China during the party. visit of His Royal Highness this week. Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): May we debate Just as time is running out on this Parliament, time is debating? I recall that when I succeeded the right hon. more poignantly running out on the young boys who Gentleman many years ago as president of the world’s suffer from Duchenne muscular dystrophy, such as my most famous student debating society, he was in favour constituent Archie Hill, whose parents Gary and Louisa of debating—indeed, he was in favour of it as late as have campaigned tirelessly for a new drug called Translarna 2001 when he was Leader of the Opposition, as he told to made available for him and other sufferers. Will the the House today. If we had such a debate, would we at Leader of the House tell us whether we have any time least get one more opportunity to see the Leader of the left during which we can bring more pressure to bear on House in full flow, showing the skill he developed all NHS England? We have met the Prime Minister, who those years ago of being able to defend the indefensible— has written supportively, and the Under-Secretary of namely, the Prime Minister’s craven approach to debating State for Health, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid head to head on television with the Leader of the Norfolk (George Freeman), who is the Minister for life Opposition? sciences; only NHS England stands in the way. How can my right hon. Friend help? Mr Hague: The Prime Minister has debated every Mr Hague: My right hon. Friend may well know that Wednesday for years with the Leader of the Opposition, there is a clear process and timetable for this, and for and he has almost invariably come off best in those rare conditions the decision to fund treatments and debates. The hon. Gentleman’s characterisation is not drugs is made by NHS England. A draft clinical right. He and I have always been committed to debating commissioning policy on the use of Translarna for the through our background in the Oxford union, and the treatment of DMD has been developed, and it is now Prime Minister has offered the terms of a debate to being considered for funding. The consultation runs broadcasters and the other parties. As I pointed out until 27 April, so it has another six or seven weeks to earlier, such an offer was never made to me by the Prime run. I urge my right hon. Friend and other colleagues Minister of the day when I was Leader of the Opposition. who have raised this issue in the House to make their views known to NHS England throughout that process. Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con): Domestic Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab): Joanna Michael, drones were the must-have gift of last Christmas—needless the daughter of my constituent Angela Michael, was to say I did not get one, although I did get a Dyson brutally murdered in 2009. The Independent Police cleaner. The usage of drones is governed by the Civil Complaints Commission ruled that she was failed by Aviation Authority, and there was a near miss between the police, yet the Supreme Court has ruled that a a drone and an A320 last summer. May we have a negligence claim cannot be brought against the police debate to ensure that rules on the use of drones are fully because they have immunity. May we have a debate with known, so that we can guarantee the serenity and safety a view to changing the law so that the police are held to of residents in the United Kingdom? account in the same way as doctors, teachers and the armed forces? Mr Hague: I hope my hon. Friend finds his Dyson cleaner easier to control than some people find their Mr Hague: The hon. Gentleman raises an important drones. I am sure he will. This will be an important point about a disturbing case. I will refer it to my subject for consideration, but I cannot offer a debate ministerial colleagues, and there will be further questions before the Dissolution of Parliament. Important privacy to Ministers at the Ministry of Justice before the Dissolution and air safety issues are at stake, which I know have of Parliament. I will ensure that Ministers consider the been considered by the Civil Aviation Authority. This matter he has raised. activity will continue to develop, so I would be very surprised if Parliament did not consider it in the coming Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): It is estimated that months—most likely, of course, in the new Parliament. the elephant population of the Selous reserve in Tanzania has fallen from 55,000 in 2006 to about 15,000 now. As chair of the all-party group on Tanzania and a long-term Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): Some villages resident of that country, that greatly distresses me and in Coedpoeth and Brymbo in my constituency face very hundreds of people around the world. May we have an large bills through no fault of their own because they urgent debate in this House on the factors that fuel have to fund remedial work resulting from historic lead demand for ivory, rhino horn and other illegal wildlife contamination. This is an anomalous situation, as our products? law generally follows the principle that the polluter pays, but here there is no traceable polluter. Last year in Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is right, and this is a Blanefield in Scotland, the UK Government reached a deeply disturbing situation not only in Tanzania but deal with the Scottish Government and the local authority internationally. The British Government are playing a jointly to fund work in a parallel situation. The Welsh 1089 Business of the House5 MARCH 2015 Business of the House 1090

Government would like a similar solution in this case. Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): This is not a Will the Leader of the House grant an urgent debate, to transport issue, but may we have a debate in the short be answered by a Treasury Minister, so that the UK time left on recent changes to the rules governing Government can lay out a consistent position on funding community amateur sports clubs, with specific reference criteria? to rate relief thresholds? The York Railway Institute, which provides fantastic sporting facilities to many of Mr Hague: The hon. Lady raises an important issue my constituents, is under financial threat as a result of for her constituents. I do not know what the prospects the changes. It could close or be broken up to offset are of the consistent position she has called for emerging, them, after serving the public of York since its foundation but Treasury questions take place next Tuesday, 10 March, in 1889. providing an early opportunity for her to raise the matter with Treasury Ministers. She will be able to pursue it with them by every other avenue. I think it Mr Hague: The Government have given local authorities unlikely that we will be able to have such a debate before the power to offer business rate discounts beyond predefined Dissolution, but the hon. Lady has those opportunities reliefs at their discretion, including to sports clubs, to be to raise the issue. funded 50% by central Government and 50% by local authorities. I recommend that the club discuss this with Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): My its local authority. The Treasury would expect local right hon. Friend will be greatly missed by the House. authorities to take full account of the funding provided He has done outstanding work and left a lasting legacy by central Government for discretionary rate relief when on the issue of sexual violence in conflict. It is important making their decisions. to address issues relating to women and equalities. I ask him, perhaps as a parting gift, to urge all hon. Members Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): to support the establishment of a Select Committee on Birmingham and other midlands licence fee payers women and equalities, so that we can carry on scrutinising contribute £942 million to the BBC coffers, but less these issues, holding the Government to account on than £80 million of that was invested in our region last them and ensuring that we make progress for women in year. That is less than it manages to spend in London this country and elsewhere throughout the world. over 12 days. May we have a debate before the end of this Parliament on the renewal terms for the BBC Mr Hague: I am very grateful for my hon. Friend’s charter, so we can agree some rules for fair funding and remarks, and I pay tribute to her and the work she has an end to our subsidising the London luvvies broadcasting done on preventing sexual violence. I have seen her corporation? working in her constituency and across London on this issue, and I know her work is appreciated by other London Members. As I mentioned earlier, I have a lot Mr Hague: Personally, I have a good deal of sympathy of sympathy with the case for establishing an equalities with the need for the BBC to invest around the country. Select Committee of some kind. The establishment of We had a statement just last week by the Chair of the Select Committees will have to be decided in the new Culture, Media and Sport Committee, so there have Parliament. I add that the number of other Select been recent opportunities to raise the implications of Committees would have to be reduced by one in order that on the Floor of the House. I am sure there will be to accommodate this one. other debates on the future of the BBC, but I cannot offer one in the remaining 14 days the House is sitting Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): The major before we come to the general election campaign. supermarkets, Eurotunnel, major hauliers and others support the building of a dedicated rail freight line Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): I bring good capable of carrying full-size lorry trailers on trains and news from Kettering, where the £4 million upgrade of linking all the major economic regions of Britain with the maternity department at Kettering general hospital each other and the channel tunnel. There is such a has just begun, due for completion in December. Ten scheme, called the GB freight route, which could be babies a day, on average, are delivered at the hospital. built easily, quickly and economically and would take This is part of an £18 million investment package for 5 million lorry journeys off our roads every year. This is the hospital, which comes ahead of a potential £30 million significant for a number of Government Departments, for developing a new urgent care hub facility on the site. including the Treasury, the Department for Business, Will my right hon. Friend encourage our right hon. Innovation and Skills and the Department for Transport. Friend the Chancellor to include in his Budget statement Will the Leader of the House use his good offices to a paragraph making it clear that such massive investment encourage Ministers from all those Departments to in our local NHS hospitals is possible only because of consult the relevant companies about advancing this the success of our long-term economic plan? scheme?

Mr Hague: I will certainly inform my ministerial Mr Hague: My hon. Friend has again brought important colleagues in the relevant Departments of the matter good news from Kettering, as he has done in recent the hon. Gentleman has raised. As I said earlier, we weeks concerning the economy, employment and the have just had Transport Question Time, and I think I success of the town, and all of that is related to shall have to make a list for Transport Ministers of the the success of this country. He mentions investment in questions left over from it and asked during business the national health service, which is now conducting questions. I am happy to provide that service on this 1.3 million more operations, 6 million more out-patient occasion, and the hon. Gentleman has managed to raise appointments and 3.5 million more diagnostic tests the matter on the Floor of the House. than it did five years ago. His central point is important 1091 Business of the House5 MARCH 2015 Business of the House 1092

[Mr Hague] widely admired. Many people in countries all over the world have expressed to me the wish that they could and absolutely correct: such investment is only possible question their Head of Government in the same way we with a growing economy. That is what is at stake in the can here in this House, and so we must not lose that coming general election. central aspect of our proceedings.

Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): When can we Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): Reports debate early-day motion 839? this week of a woman acting as a surrogate to give birth [That this House is appalled at the demeaning spectacle to her own son’s baby have shocked many people, not of Prime Minister’s Questions, where the Leader of the least because the procedure was reportedly carried out Opposition’s questions are not answered by the Prime in a clinic licensed by the Human Fertilisation and Minister, who uses the occasions as a bully pulpit for his Embryology Authority. Will my right hon. Friend, as own chosen issues; notes the widely expressed public one of his final acts, find time for an urgent debate on revulsion at this ill-mannered, pointless spectacle; and the actions of the HFEA and the fertility clinic involved calls for its replacement by meetings where the Prime in this case? If an urgent debate is not possible, what Minister will answer questions from 20 randomly-selected will he do? backbenchers in a committee room in an atmosphere of calm and dignity.] Mr Hague: Given the time constraints that I have This House was brought into further disrepute by the mentioned several times, an urgent debate is not possible. disgraceful behaviour of two senior Members recently, I do not know the details of the case my hon. Friend has who shamed themselves and this House on the “Dispatches” raised. Nevertheless, I can understand the debate and programme. However, weekly the House is brought into concern about such issues, so I will inform my colleagues disrepute by the spectacle of Prime Minister’s Question at the Department of Health of his interest in this Time, which consists of little more than repeated tedious matter and the fact that he has raised it, and ask them mantras, crude insults and answers that do not reflect to respond to him. the questions asked. Prime Minister John Major and Neil Kinnock made a valiant effort to reform question Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): Thank you, time, as has the present Speaker, but I believe the Mr Speaker, for the offer of a cup of tea earlier. That is present format is unreformable and we have to look to a the closest thing I have had to an offer of a hot date in a new way of presenting Prime Minister’s Question Time—in very long time. a manner that is robust, but calm and dignified. May I ask the Leader of the House for a debate on the future of the Planning Inspectorate, which seems to Mr Hague: As the hon. Gentleman will know, the be wantonly ignoring the views of local people and two right hon. Members in question have referred going against adopted local plans, especially, for example, themselves to the Parliamentary Commissioner for in the village of West Haddon in my constituency? Standards. That has been the correct thing to do, and the matter will now be investigated. Mr Hague: There are debates on planning. In fact, On Prime Minister’s questions, I am sure that in there is a debate today in Westminster Hall on the future Parliaments—in the next Parliament—the Procedure national planning policy framework, so my hon. Friend Committee and the House as a whole can consider any may be able to raise such matters during it. I cannot suggested changes. We can always change and improve otherwise offer a debate in the time available. Communities our procedures, and it is always important to have an and Local Government questions will take place on eye on doing so. I would only add that in my experience 16 March—a week on Monday. There are therefore a all over the world as Foreign Secretary for most of the few remaining opportunities for him to raise the issue in past five years, our Parliament and its proceedings are the House. 1093 5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1094

International Women’s Day increase in unemployment among members of that group, compared with the decrease in unemployment in 11.23 am every other cohort, a result of choices that they have made? Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): I beg to move, That this House has considered International Women’s Day. Maria Miller: I think the hon. Lady misheard me. I This motion in support of international women’s day referred to women over the age of 40, and I did not say also stands in the name of my right hon. Friend the that the gap had increased. However, she is right in one Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) and my hon. respect. I am sure that there are many reasons for the Friend the Member for Erewash (Jessica Lee). I should pay gap to continue, and I think that she and I share a say that my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash did desire for the position to change. I shall say more about the heavy lifting on all this but was detained elsewhere that later. and unable to go to the Backbench Business Committee on the day we put our bid in. I thank her, and all the Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): right hon. and hon. Members across the House who Does my right hon. Friend agree that one of the supported our application for this important debate. It Government’s major changes has been taking people is one of the rare parliamentary moments in our calendar out of income tax at the lower end of the scale, and is it when, across the Chamber, there is more that unites us not a fact that 58% of those workers are women? than divides us. I thank the Backbench Business Committee for its support in making the debate possible. Maria Miller: As my right hon. Friend says, the It is an enormous privilege to open this debate. It is Government have made real progress in not only giving not only here that international women’s day will be more women access to child care, but helping women on marked—more than 300 events will be held in the UK lower incomes, as well as women of pensionable age. I mark the economic, political and social achievements am not suggesting to the hon. Member for Slough of women across our globe. Our enduring thanks have (Fiona Mactaggart) that all the problems have been to go to organisations such as the United Nations, solved, but I think she would want to join me in Oxfam, Women for Women International, CARE ensuring that praise is given when it is due. International and the World Association of Girl Guides As I said at the beginning, I want to focus on both the and Girl Scouts, which bring this event alive for thousands workplace and this place. On a day like this, we should of people across the United Kingdom. never forget what our forebears did to ensure that we Each international women’s day gives us an opportunity would all be here as women Members of Parliament. to pause and take stock of the progress that we are There is also much to celebrate in the country more making throughout the world in gaining a fundamental widely in respect of the role of women in our society. right: the right to be treated equally, regardless of our Over the past year, we have seen the appointment of the gender. The breadth of today’s debate is daunting, and I first woman bishop, the first female president of the do not think that any one speaker can hope to cover Royal College of Surgeons, and—this is of particular every aspect of the important work that many Members interest to me—the first female Formula 1 driver, Susie are doing in the House, whether it is connected with Wolff. Many more women are breaking through and domestic violence towards women, female genital providing role models for us all, which can help to mutilation, or a host of other issues that are equally change attitudes and, importantly, raise aspirations. important. I want to focus on two issues: the role of Let me add one more name to that list: Fiona Woolf. women in the workplace and their role in this place. I think that she deserves a particular mention. Although Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): I she was not the first female Lord Mayor of London, I congratulate the right hon. Lady and her colleagues on believe that she did more than any other Lord Mayor to initiating the debate. Does she agree that we still have a tackle the issue of gender equality in business, championing long way to go before women have parity with men in women and their contribution to the City of London, terms of pay? and taking that further with the City’s first Pride dinner in celebration of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Maria Miller: I think we have made important progress City workers. I think we should put on record our in that regard, particularly under the present Government thanks to her for all she did in that role. but previously as well. For women under the age of 40, I shall now focus on the role of work in women’s lives, the gender pay gap has all but disappeared, and when knowing full well that other colleagues will pick up the we disaggregate the overall data, we see that progress other vital threads. Last week the head of the International has been made. As the hon. Gentleman says, it is Monetary Fund, Christine Lagarde, wrote: worrying that the gap has not disappeared completely, “In too many countries, too many legal restrictions conspire but, as I am sure he knows, that has much to do with against women to be economically active”, some of the choices that women are making about how yet we know that the right to work is fundamental to they want to lead their lives, which they have an absolute the story of women’s equality. Christine Lagarde was right to do, and also with some of the choices that they prompted to say that by an IMF report which found are making early in their educational careers. We need that, despite the progress made on gender, almost 90% to ensure that they are fully aware of the implications of of countries surveyed still had legal restrictions based those choices. on gender that can stop women having the same Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): The right hon. opportunities to work as men. Lady said that the pay gap for women aged 50 and over While progress has been made, we should start this had increased, and suggested that that might be partly debate in the full knowledge that for many of our sisters to do with choices that women make. Is the enormous around the world progress can be almost impossible to 1095 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1096

[Maria Miller] on these issues that when I raised this with him directly, he acted at once. We must ensure that we are responsive see. That is why the work of my right hon. Friend the to the new crimes that the internet can create, and I International Development Secretary is so critical in believe this Government have done just that. It is now, supporting our aims. after one short year, a crime to post nude or sexually explicit images online without consent, and I applaud Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): I congratulate my my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor for taking right hon. Friend on her speech and on this debate. Will that swift action. she commend the work of my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash) in bringing forward his The British workplace was designed by men for men, gender equality Bill for international development? It is and so were many of the laws that are assigned to it. absolutely critical that our international development That is why the task of workplace modernisation is so programme, which our right hon. Friend the International important. There is now a record number of women in Development Secretary so ably leads, ensures that gender work—more than 14 million—and 80% of the growth equality is embedded in everything it does. in female employment in the past four years has been in managerial, professional and technical sectors. The Under- Maria Miller: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, remind me of that important Bill, because through such my hon. Friend the Member for East Dunbartonshire legislation we can ensure that Britain continues to lead (Jo Swinson), was instrumental in pressing for extending the way, as we are doing in our Government policy, the right to request flexible working and in introducing prioritising women and girls in overseas work, helping a system of shared parental leave. Increasing early-years more than 2 million women overseas to get jobs and education for three and four-year-olds and the most over 5 million girls to attend school. That sort of disadvantaged two-year-olds, and making tax-free child leadership can make a real difference. care available to all for the first time, are also clear ways in which this Government have taken action to modernise Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): Will the workplace for women in the past five years. my right hon. Friend also welcome the news today that the Mayor of London, Boris Johnson, has given this We have removed some of the most entrenched barriers, great city £5 million to tackle domestic abuse and helping women to gain greater financial security through violence? work and also in retirement. Our state pension reforms will improve the lives of the more than 600,000 women Maria Miller: Absolutely, and I pay tribute not only who will benefit from the single tier pension and receive to the Mayor of London for the excellent work he does an average of £8 a week more as a result of this in his office, but to my hon. Friend, who has shown real Government’s actions. There are now more women-led leadership on this issue not only in her constituency, but businesses than ever before. One in five small and across London. With women like her on our green medium-sized enterprises is now led by a woman. There Benches, we can make real progress in these areas. are more women on FTSE boards than ever before, and The theme of this year’s international women’s day is there are now, for the first time ever, no all-male FTSE “Make it happen”, and it is incumbent on all of us to 100 boards. These are significant achievements, and the make sure we are making it happen for women not only Government should be recognised for what they have in the UK, but around the world. The Commission on done. I believe that we shall see this legacy come to the Status of Women, the Convention on the Elimination maturity in the next 10 years. of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, and the team of dedicated people at the Government Equalities When it comes to promoting gender equality, one of Office led by Helene Reardon-Bond work tirelessly to the key indicators alongside work is the proportion of support change around the globe, to take the experience seats held by women in a national Parliament. I should of our country abroad, and to advocate and deliver the like to pay particular tribute to the work of the all-party change that is needed. They and the ministerial team parliamentary group for women in Parliament, which is ably led by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State ably led by my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford for Education, and the Ministers on the Front Bench and Isleworth (Mary Macleod). She has worked assiduously today as well, play a critical role and I applaud them for to ensure that female representation in this House remains their enduring hard work and urge them on. firmly on every party’s agenda. Her report published last summer rightly made a number of recommendations What the IMF report to which I have referred underlines of which every Member of the House should be aware. is that laws, however apparently benign, can affect the true opportunities women have, and I would like to One recommendation, which has already been draw the attention of the House to a problem raised by mentioned, is that we should not miss the opportunity one of my constituents: the posting of revenge pornography to ensure that matters relating to women and equality online, an act that I believe was designed specifically to are properly scrutinised. The establishment of a women intimidate and undermine the women who were the and equalities Select Committee, to ensure proper scrutiny victims. It is a very female-based crime, yet I was both for Government and for those outside Government advised by the police that it was not necessarily a crime on equality issues, is one of the report’s most powerful at all at that point. All the victims I have met are recommendations. Lord Davies’s work on women’s women, although I am sure there are some men who are representation on boards has demonstrated how effective affected, too. These women endured enormous trauma, it can be to establish an expectation when it comes to and some even blackmail, and almost all cited a direct gender. Through his work, he has almost doubled the effect on their work and family life as a result of being number of female company directors in FTSE 100 the victims of this appalling and despicable behaviour. firms by putting in place a target and monitoring it, and It is a testament to the commitment of the Lord Chancellor by generating a great deal of good will behind the issue. 1097 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1098

It is almost unbelievable that we do not have a Mr Jim Cunningham: One way in which women could scrutiny body on women and equality led by the House be helped, particularly younger married women with of Commons. As a former Minister for Women and families, is by our having a look at the crèche facilities in Equalities, I can tell the House that I would see such a this place. body as a very effective tool indeed. I was pleased to hear the personal commitment from the Leader of the Maria Miller: I know that we have crèche facilities, House earlier today. Putting in place such a Select although I am not sure that my 12-year-old would be Committee and ensuring that people would be held to too excited about going there. The hon. Gentleman account would have just the kind of nudge effect that is raises an important point, which is that at the beginning so popular among modern-day economists. That would of the next Parliament, when we start to think about the be an important way we could improve the processes of working hours of this place—I know that there are this place. many different competing demands, with people living The all-party parliamentary group also recommended in various parts of the country—we have to ask ourselves changes to the working practices of the House as an the questions. If, as the Conservatives will, we have important way of encouraging more women to stand many young women coming into Parliament who may for elected office. Clearly, we have to create an environment have not yet started their families, and if we are to that women want to work in—one where they feel their encourage them to stay here for as long as possible, we face will fit. When I was asked to consider becoming an have to address the sort of issue he is talking about. I MP in 2000, my reply was, “People like me don’t become want to encourage more women who have families into MPs.” I was born in a council house, I went to my local Parliament. At the moment, 40% of women MPs do comprehensive school in Bridgend in south Wales and I not have children and that is not representative of our had been working for 15 years in business, where I was a population as a whole. In addition, women tend to have working mum, with two small children at the time. But shorter parliamentary careers than their male counterparts my party never saw any of those things as an obstacle. I and tend to have older children, too, so there are some believe it is less about those things being obstacles and forces at play that he is right to pick up on. more about the perception people have about this place— that is what we need to overcome. Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab): The right hon. Lady is making an interesting Mary Macleod: Does my right hon. Friend agree that speech. I wonder whether she shares my experience, all parties need to do a lot more outreach to women which is that at surgeries or even when knocking on right across this country to say that their country needs doors it tends to be the women who come forward to them? They need to take a role in public life, participate discuss things. I have had surgeries where the man has in our debates and really make a difference to the future been brought along but does not open his mouth and of this country. the woman speaks on his behalf. I wonder whether it is a shared experience among women MPs that the level of Maria Miller: My hon. Friend is absolutely right engagement by women is very high indeed. about that. I hope I am able to say this without betraying any confidences from the evidence sessions held in her Maria Miller: The hon. Lady is making an important Select Committee, but I certainly had the overwhelming point. I wish to pay tribute to my local Basingstoke and impression that recruiting women was not a problem in Deane borough council, particularly its Conservative any individual political party; the problem was more to group, because more than a third of our councillors are do with encouraging women to be interested in this as women and that is well in excess of any other party. I part of their career or part of how they could contribute think there is something else at play in what she says; something to the society in which they live. perhaps as she and I are women MPs, women feel more empowered to take a more assertive position with us Mrs Gillan: My right hon. Friend is making a powerful because they see women in their community taking a speech, and she has been a rich addition to the House. role that they can follow. What has alarmed me is that the experience she reports in 2000 is the same as my experience back in the late I believe that each party is doing good work to 1980s and early 1990s. I came into this place in 1992 encourage more women to stand. I pay particular tribute and am now the longest serving woman on the Conservative to the work of Women2Win for my party, under the Benches. How are we going to make sure that our careful guidance of my right hon. Friend the Home message goes out beyond this place that this is a very Secretary and the noble Baroness Jenkin in the other good place for women to represent their constituencies place, and to my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and and a very good place for women to do business? Falmouth (Sarah Newton)—an extraordinarily dedicated group of colleagues, who have ensured that an extraordinary Maria Miller: My right hon. Friend asks one of the group of talented women are set to join us on these biggest questions to be answered in this debate today. It green Benches in May.More than a third of our candidates is not only incumbent on us in this place to deal with in winnable seats are women. I pay particular tribute to it—I know you take a deep interest in this too, Suella Fernandes, who was selected for Fareham, in my Mr Speaker—but we also have to look at the way in home county of Hampshire, just a few weeks ago. With which women who hold these jobs are represented. I all her experience, I know that she will be an excellent know that one of the biggest concerns many women addition to this place. have about coming into Parliament is the problems that My right hon. and hon. Friends here today, many of they can encounter in terms of the scrutiny of themselves whom have been MPs for longer than me, have noted and their personal lives. There are a great many questions many things about this place, but one thing that I was to be answered in that regard, too. concerned about when I came here was the lack of 1099 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1100

[Maria Miller] I have some young girls coming into Parliament today from a school called Elizabeth Garrett Anderson visibility of the contribution made by the women who school, which is based in my constituency. Elizabeth had already been in Parliament before me. Since that Garrett Anderson was a distinguished woman who point, we have seen some progress, but we need to fought her way into becoming a medical doctor despite continue under your careful guidance, Mr Speaker, the rules and managed to slip through some loopholes, to make progress on that. We have seen the unveiling of which the medical profession then closed after her, so the statue of Margaret Thatcher in Members’ Lobby that she was alone as a woman doctor for many years. and just this week we have seen an inspiring exhibition She established a women’s hospital in my area, was the of photography and portraiture, which has really started first woman mayor in the country and her sister was to crystallise the contribution of the extraordinary women Millicent Fawcett—quite a history, and these are quite we have already seen in this place. some girls I will be seeing. They are 11 and 12-year-olds. I know that you are one of our great supporters, As a woman in my mid-50s, it is difficult for me to give Mr Speaker, but let us make sure, perhaps as a testament them advice. They have had advice from many people, to this international women’s day, not only that we have including from Michelle Obama who visited. I do not an exhibition of women’s portraiture and photography think that my advice will rival that of the President’s in Portcullis House, but that those images creep their wife. way down the corridors to the Palace of Westminster When speaking to girls who are just beginning their itself and on to the walls of our Committee Rooms, so lives and looking forward to womanhood, one has to be that the next time I sit on a Delegated Legislation realistic about the difficulties that they will face. The Committee, I do not have to endure two or three hours truth is that no matter what decision they make, they of simply looking at previous male colleagues on our will feel that it is the wrong one. If they remain at home, walls. I think that is perhaps what would be expected, they will feel that they have not been ambitious enough. all these years on from the first woman having sat in the If they go to work, they will feel that they have let their House of Commons. families down. If they try to work part-time, they will I will close there, because I know that many hon. and not do sufficiently well professionally and their children right hon. Friends want to contribute to this debate. I will still resent the time that they are out. They will find look forward to an excellent discussion of the issues that, even if they are at home looking after their children, that really matter to women in Britain today. the demands of the older generation will be put on them. It does not matter which way we turn, we are Several hon. Members rose— always wrong. Women’s liberation was not supposed to look like this. Mr Speaker: Order. Colleagues might wish to produce We have more that we should do, that we must do and a list of the distinguished female parliamentarians of that we can do, but fundamentally, as long as women whom they would like to have portraits in prominent continue to do two thirds of the unpaid work—work at positions in the Palace in the course of the next Parliament. home is important—we will not get equality. The younger If that choice is made known, I would be very happy to generation of men have changed their attitudes in many be a cheerleader for it. Far too few prominent female ways. It is good to see that they are prepared to change parliamentarians have portraits in this House. nappies, and that they are prepared to be involved in child care. 11.47 am Mr David Hamilton (Midlothian) (Lab): I used to do Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) that. (Lab): May I begin by saying that a statue of Emily Wilding Davison would be at the top of my list? She Emily Thornberry: I understand that some people was not a parliamentarian, but she was certainly someone from an older generation who are sitting in the Chamber who made a huge impact in this place, not least by used to change nappies, but the question is: do they breaking into the House on a number of occasions, clean the loo? locking herself in and making a complete menace of herself, furthering the place of women hugely. The very Mr Hamilton: Yep. fact that she was not a parliamentarian should not continue to exclude her from recognition in this place. Emily Thornberry: Do they do the ironing? You know my very strong views on this issue, Mr Speaker, and as the first and only Emily ever to be elected to this Mr Hamilton: Yep. place I will continue to press for that. I congratulate the right hon. Members for Basingstoke Emily Thornberry: Do they do the hoovering? (Maria Miller) and for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) and the hon. Member for Erewash (Jessica Lee) on their work in Mr Hamilton: No. securing today’s debate. International women’s day has a distinguished history. The first formal observance of a Emily Thornberry: Do they sort out the shopping? If women’s day was in the United States in 1909, to mark there is no breakfast cereal, is it my hon. Friend or his the first anniversary of the women garment workers’ partner who ensures that there is breakfast cereal on the strike in New York in 1908, when 15,000 women went table the next morning? The reality is that many of us on strike to demand their economic and political rights. have partners who are enlightened and wonderful and It is right in many ways that international women’s day we love them greatly, but in the end they believe that is founded in the movement for more justice in the they are helping us. Why are they helping us? Why are workplace. we not helping them? Until we begin to re-establish the 1101 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1102 relationship between men and women and unpaid work, equal pay. Work still needs to be done. The Equal Pay we will not get far, because that is the biggest problem Act 1970, passed some 45 years ago, has run into the we have. sand and we have a number of difficulties with it. First, In the meantime, while we are waiting for the halcyon it was based on the idea of individual women taking out day when men clean the loo, we need to be working individual complaints about their individual circumstances. much harder at ensuring that we have proper flexible They cannot be representative of a class of women or of working. Some changes made by the Conservatives an entire employment establishment; they do it on their have been positive, but there have been restrictions in own behalf. They can of course be bought off and there what they have introduced, which have been counter- can be a gagging clause in any agreement that is made productive. It is certainly to the benefit of all of us that instead of their going to court, so there is therefore no people, no matter what their circumstances, can apply end to it. for flexible working and that that request is taken Increasing numbers of cases have taken years and seriously. The difficulty is that the employer can be years. The idea of the Dagenham work force going completely within their rights to insist that they will along to a tribunal, representing themselves and it not take three months to consider it. If someone’s mum has taking very long is long gone. It can take five years for fallen down and has gone into hospital and they need to the preliminary issue in the case to be decided. This visit her, see that she is okay, help her out of hospital process has become counter-productive. As we have afterwards, and ensure that she is back in the community established our law on the basis of a form of contract and properly supported, and their employer is taking law, the European Court of Justice has said that women three months to decide whether they can work flexibly, should not just get two years’ compensation but six what do they do? They are likely to take demotion, years’ compensation for not being paid equally with leave, or work part-time. It is not a feasible system for men. That has had a chilling effect on employers, who the real lives that real people live today. We should be will fight every single case. looking further at flexible working. It is to be greatly In increasing numbers of cases, trade unions and applauded that we encourage men and women—men employers come to a negotiated deal on equal pay particularly—to take time off when children are born, between men and women only for the trade unions to be but the needs of children continue throughout their sued. We are getting mired in difficulties, but the gender teenage years and, in my experience, into early adult pay gap remains stubbornly at about 10% for women on life. The continuing caring responsibilities that people full pay and at 17% for women who work part time. We have for an older generation remain and should be should not turn our backs on that. shared by men. We have a long way to go in relation to that. I put that down as my first marker. Maria Miller: I reassure the hon. Lady that in no way Jeremy Lefroy: Does the hon. Lady agree that the should she sense any complacency from me on that long-hours culture in this country is counter-productive issue. I was simply pointing out that disaggregating the for everybody? It is particularly so for women, because data uncovers a slightly different issue. I recognise the if they want to get into a profession and are expected to problems with equal pay and other pay complaints that work all hours, as indeed are men, that puts them off. she has cited, but if we disaggregate the data we can see This place is not an exception. that the challenge for women over 40 is not focused on enough. Emily Thornberry: I could not agree more with the hon. Gentleman. We have got ourselves into an odd Emily Thornberry: There are other problems with the place in which it is accepted that women have to limit Equal Pay Act. The fact that there are fees has put the hours they work—that full time may mean just full women off taking cases; there has been a decline of 70% time and not all the hours of overtime. In many workplaces, or 80% in the number of women taking cases on equal if a man wants to be able to get home at six o’clock to pay. see the children there is in some ways more prejudice I have talked about settlements and about the need against him than there might be against a woman, as it for six years’ compensation and its chilling effect, but in would be accepted that she would need to get home. It addition the Equal Pay Act was based on another way would be to the benefit and liberation of us all if we of working in another world. It does not comprehend looked again at our equal and shared responsibility for outsourcing, agency working, bogus self-employment unpaid and paid work and allowed people to make and all the things that have, in my view, often been used choices that are appropriate for them and not based to circumvent equal pay. We need a new pay Act that simply on gender. It happens too often and it continues would ensure that such difficulties are directly addressed. to happen. All sorts of increasingly bizarre loopholes have developed My stepmother was a great feminist in the 1970s who in the law. For example, if a woman is replaced by a translated “The Little Red Schoolbook”, which was a man and the man gets paid more, it would seem that she great call to arms at that time. I remember her saying is not allowed to compare him with herself and to that she was doing that work not for herself—she did compare his level of pay to show that she has been not expect it to work for her—but for me. I continue to discriminated against. In my view, that is nonsense. If a work, not necessarily for me but for the girls at Elizabeth man is paid more than a woman it is a defence for the Garrett Anderson and for my daughters. We go down employer to say that that is not discrimination because the generations, but although things improve we still it is owing to some other material factor—historical or have such a long way to go. We must not be complacent. mistaken. Obviously, that is also nonsense. There is There is an area in which there is an element of even an argument, which has been upheld in some court complacency, with the greatest respect to the right hon. cases although not all, that if a woman compares herself Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller), and that is to a man who is employed by the same employer but 1103 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1104

[Emily Thornberry] Perhaps the most important thing is to treat women not as individuals taking individual cases but as works in a different building, it is not a fair comparison. whistleblowers. If they go before an employment tribunal That is obviously another piece of nonsense that needs and explain that in the culture of a company or organisation to be swept away in a new equal pay Act. they and their sisters are being discriminated against, The fundamental problem with the Equal Pay Act is the tribunal should have the power to step in and order that it is based on individual women taking complaints a proper pay audit and skills evaluation. Then there about their individual circumstances. We should accept, should be a plan. I appreciate that the Government have in clause 1 of a new Bill, that it is the responsibility of introduced the power for tribunals to order an audit if a all of us to ensure that there is equal pay between the case is lost, but the law is silent on implementation. So genders, so we need to work together to do something let us implement it. Let us not just have a little bit of about it. A new Act should have a code of practice with window-dressing. Let us make sure that there is a proper some legal standing attached to it so that employers study of the cultures within organisations where there know that they will not be sued so long as the agreements has been discrimination, and let us make sure that there negotiated with the trade unions are made within the is a plan for change. I respectfully suggest that that plan code. Employers could volunteer to have proper pay for change should be overseen by the Equality and audits, job evaluations and skills audits. If they out-sourced Human Rights Commission and that the commission that to recognised experts and acted on the basis of should make sure that the plan is implemented. Failure their recommendations, that would be a complete defence to implement it should be treated as a form of contempt against any equal pay claim. of court. The organisation can then be brought back and a penalty imposed. Mary Macleod: Does the hon. Lady agree that some We need new legislation which is fit for the 21st century, of the “Think, Act, Report”work, in which the Government which is based not on individuals, but on collective have pushed organisations to be transparent on diversity responsibility, which in the end ought to be the responsibility issues, for example by revealing the number of employees of our whole society. This seems to me the sort of thing at each level within the organisation and the gender pay that we could do. There could be particular powers over gap, is the first step to making life fairer within a a short period of five years—for example, compensation business? of just two years instead of six years for a period of five years; no tribunal fees for a period of five years; a Emily Thornberry: Section 78 of the Equality Act 2010 business not needing to pay compensation for five years was introduced by the previous Government and has if it conducts a root and branch audit of the way in not been implemented by the current Government, which it pays people. Such steps could push matters which is a great shame. Section 78 orders all businesses forward, and at long last we could address at least that with more than 250 employees to have a proper pay part of what holds women back. Unless we do something audit. The devil is in the detail, and it could well be a about it, it may hold back the girls from Elizabeth modest change, even if it was implemented. The requirement Garrett Anderson. We will deal with flexible working to make available proper pay information so that pay and unpaid work at another stage. Let us take one step can be compared across different stratums of equivalent at a time. That is what I propose for a new equal pay work is an important call to arms to which the Labour Act. party has committed itself as a first step, but a new equal pay Act would give substance to that. 12.6 pm I was talking earlier about the idea of collective responsibility and of businesses volunteering to have a Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): I am proper root-and-branch look at how they pay people. If delighted to have the opportunity to speak in the debate the agreements reached are a complete defence so that and to follow the hon. Member for Islington South and they are not scared about changing the way in which Finsbury (Emily Thornberry), who is passionate on these they pay men and women or about paying six years’ matters. I thank my right hon. Friends the Members for compensation, we may well find that more businesses Basingstoke (Maria Miller) and for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) come forward. If we have a code of practice under and my hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Jessica which the trade unions can negotiate equality between Lee) for bringing the debate to the Floor of the House. the sexes and eradicate the gender pay gap, we can all It is important that we celebrate international women’s move together towards the sort of world that we want, day and show that in Parliament we put women at the in which there is not discrimination between men and top of our agenda and make sure that everything we do women. is about maximising the potential and abilities of everyone We need to look again at the powers of employment across this country, including women. tribunals and the way in which they act. In serious and International women’s day is a day for celebrating the complicated cases, senior judges—High Court judges contribution of women, as well as for reflecting on what or whoever—should be brought in to make sure that the more we can do to support women and young girls cases get through the system quickly and efficiently and across the world and what we can do to inspire the next there is no time wasting. We should bring back the generation. It was great to hear the hon. Member for questionnaire. Why the Government got rid of it, I do Islington South and Finsbury talk about the school not understand. It should be two pages that a woman pupils who are coming to visit today. Many girls from can send to her employer and say, “Could you give me schools in the constituencies of Members across the information on this?” Let us keep it short and punchy, House are coming to Parliament next Thursday to but let us enable women to get some information so that celebrate international women’s day. That will be a they know whether they have a case. chance for them to hear about the work that is being 1105 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1106 done in this place and out in our communities. We hope the likes of Jo Malone and The White Company. There they may be inspired to make some contribution in their are so many female entrepreneurs who have made a real own communities. difference. I shall focus on how we make it happen—the theme of international women’s day this year—for women and Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD): Does the hon. enterprise. I spent about 20 years in business, and I still Lady agree that that is often a particularly good way for do what I can to support women in business. I am a women with young children to branch out and set up patron of the London Women’s Forum and speak often their own business? We had an event earlier this week in the City to encourage women at all levels in many with the National Childbirth Trust on the cost of child organisations to continue to use the support available to care, and there were a number of women there with lots them, to encourage each other to fulfil their potential, of small children—always refreshing in Parliament—who each and every one of them, and to be part of UK plc. had changed career because of the cost of child care The contribution that they can make is incredibly important. and were setting up their own businesses, which in years to come will have huge potential to contribute to the The number of women in the UK choosing to set up economy. their own business has doubled in the past six years. That is not just in traditional sectors, but in areas such Mary Macleod: I completely agree. Only recently the as software development and website design. However, Exchequer Secretary visited Chiswick to meet female we still have a long way to go. We would probably have entrepreneurs and women who were thinking about more than 1 million more entrepreneurs if women were setting up a business, and they said exactly the same. setting up businesses in the UK at the same rate as men. They needed something more flexible and perhaps part That would be worth billions of pounds to the UK time, but something they could establish for themselves economy. in that way. In my west London constituency, in Chiswick, Brentford, Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): Does my hon. Isleworth and Hounslow, one of the most well-known Friend share with me a very positive response to the fact female entrepreneurs is Cath Kidston, who opened her that 37% of candidates for start-up loans provided by first shop in 1993 and now has 59 stores in the UK and the Government are women, and 35% of successful 54 across Spain, Japan, the Republic of Korea, Thailand, candidates for the new enterprise allowance provided by Taiwan, Hong Kong and China. She started making the Government are women? wash bags and aprons because she had over-ordered fabric. Another entrepreneur from Hounslow is Shavata Singh, Mary Macleod: I could not have put it better myself. I who is now famous for doing the eyebrows of the stars. absolutely agree that the statistics show that progress Almost every department store now has a Shavata has been made, and hopefully that will inspire more concession doing eyebrows—if you ever need them women to go and get the start-up loans required, which done, Mr Deputy Speaker. She has now established her is really important. flagship store in Knightsbridge and is doing amazing We also have some great role models. If we look work. Angela Lyons-Redman, of My Plumber, is based across the country, we see women such as J. K. Rowling, in Brentford and Chiswick. She left her job as a solicitor who came up with the idea for Harry Potter in 1990—it because she thought she could offer a better, faster just popped into her head on a crowded train to Manchester. service in the plumbing world—initially working from Michelle Mone left school at age 15 without a single her bedroom, with a plumber on a motorbike—and qualification, and she had the idea for Ultimo lingerie now employs 38 people and several apprentices. She is when she wore a particularly uncomfortable bra and doing a great job with that company. thought that she could produce something better. Linda Lorraine Angliss created Annie’s, a lovely, quirky and Bennett, of L.K. Bennett, worked as a shop-floor assistant comfy restaurant in Chiswick and Barnes, and now has in north London branches of Whistles and Joseph a sister restaurant in Richmond, and they are much before going on to establish her own massively successful loved by locals. Julia Quilliam set up a property business fashion line. in Brentford, an independent family-run estate agent. Specsavers co-founder Dame Mary Perkins is the Anila Vaghela, of Anila’s Sauces, which is also based in UK’s first female billionaire. She was born and raised in Hounslow, makes curry sauces. She set up the business a Bristol council house before studying optometry at in her 50s after being made redundant. She has won Cardiff university. Friends Sophie Cornish and Holly many Great Taste awards, and her sauces are all about Tucker established the retail site notonthehighstreet.com love and harmony. in 2006. It has since turned over £100 million in trade. I have a range of other examples of great local female Rita Sharma is the UK’s richest Asian female entrepreneur. entrepreneurs, such as Charlotte who set up Badger & She dropped law after one term at Sussex university to Earl, Maggie who set up Maggie & Rose, Anette who begin Worldwide Journeys, a travel agency that now has set up Chateau Dessert, Esther Gibbs who set up a net worth of £7 million. LondonMummy.com, Sarah who set up Sprinkled Magic, Business Dragon and the founder of Weststar Holidays, and Martha Keith. They have all made their mark by Deborah Meaden, began her first company, a glass and setting up their own business. ceramics business, aged just 19. Hilary Devey was Martha Keith has an interesting story. When I entered continually refused support by bankers she approached this place, I wanted to encourage more women to set up about her proposed venture for the freight network businesses. I feel that in many sectors we just need to Pall-Ex. It now has a combined turnover approaching encourage more women. I attended a Commonwealth £100 million. We have great examples out there, with meeting of female parliamentarians in Edinburgh. We 1107 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1108

[Mary Macleod] small businesses access specialist advice; and opening up the banking industry to challenger banks, encouraging were a group of 15 women all standing together, and we crowdfunding and hopefully doing more on alternative all said that we got into Parliament because someone finance. had tapped us on the shoulder and said, “Why don’t It is great to hear that more women than ever before you do it? You’d be great.” It strikes me that we need to are starting up businesses. Some 20% of small and encourage women constantly. We know that they have medium-sized enterprises are run either by women or the ability and the skills, but we need to encourage them by a team that is over 50% female, which is an increase to take that step. of 140,000 since 2010. There are other things that we are doing to support women in their roles. For example, Maria Miller: Does my hon. Friend agree that alarm 2 million families will benefit from the new tax-free bells should be ringing for the large corporations in this child care scheme. The increase in the number of free country that for whatever reason seem unable to retain hours of early education for three and four-year-olds the talented women she has just talked about? They will make a difference, as will extending free early should be looking at that very carefully, because in learning places to 40% of the most disadvantaged two- future they might see a real haemorrhaging of talent year-olds. from their training programmes into self-employment. I urge the Government to continue doing all they can to support small businesses; to consider the contribution Mary Macleod: Absolutely, and it is a real loss to women can make to enterprise; to celebrate the contribution their business when they cannot retain that talent. There that women who have set up their own businesses make is a simple and proven business case that shows that to the workplace; and to promote role models. If we they need to keep hold of that talent. They have to look talk more about role models, perhaps more women will at every single part of the pipeline to ensure that women get involved. It would inspire not just our generation, stay in their organisations. If they have a short time but the next generation of girls to feel that they can take away from work because they are on maternity leave or the same route. By talking about all the great people have to look after young children, those companies who have succeeded in the world of enterprise and the need to encourage them and support them back into the women who have made a contribution to this country, I workplace. believe we can make that happen locally, nationally and I met Martha Keith when I decided to conduct an across the world. experiment in west London by setting up three entrepreneurship workshops—I called it the start-up 12.20 pm challenge—in Hounslow, Brentford and Chiswick. I leafleted the whole area, going from door to door to Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): I have been reflecting hand out a really positive flyer that said, “I believe you on the function of Back-Bench debates. It is important can do it, so please come and find out how. Let’s work that we get things out of them rather than just listen to together to make this happen.” We were inundated with ourselves. This is a debate about an issue on which there women who wanted to find out more and see if they is not an enormous difference between parties. The first could do it. The inspirational part of those events was task of such debates is to move culture on; the second is hearing the entrepreneur’s story; a women standing up to do things and get allies to change things; and the and telling her story, explaining what she had done in third is to advance policy. her business—the good, the bad, the challenges and the On shifting our culture in relation to the role of obstacles—and how she eventually succeeded. The women women, I want to give the media some faint praise. It is listening realised that maybe they could do that too. great that the BBC has aired the documentary about the Martha Keith came along to one of those events. She rape and murder of a woman in India. It is deeply had left a good job in GlaxoSmithKline to set up her shocking that the documentary has been banned in own business, Love Give Ink, which makes brilliant India and utterly horrifying that Mukesh Singh, who stationary. I also introduced her to the Prime Minister was responsible for the murder, suggests that women are when he visited Brentford, and he then used her as an more responsible for rape because they go out late at example in his speech to the Federation of Small Businesses night and look pretty, as though men are helpless in the last year. She now employs several people, is doing a face of how women look. We can use this Chamber to great job and has never looked back. People like Martha make it clear to each other, the UK media and India can make a difference not only by changing their own that that attitude to women is unacceptable, that it lives and contributing to the economy, but by doing damages the reputation of India internationally, that something new and different or better than anyone else. we are standing up against it and that we are proud that Creating opportunities for women and encouraging we have shown the documentary in the UK. them to do something that will make a real difference to The media have done another helpful thing in relation their lives is so important. The Government have helped to women and politics. Michael Cockerell’s recent with that, as we have heard from my hon. Friend the programme about this House started with two young Member for Stourbridge (Margot James), by clearly women MPs. It was very important to be able to see that signposting businesses on the Great Business website, the activists and Members in this House who represent because we have so many great women in this country constituencies are not just fusty old guys in suits—I that we want to promote what they do by building on speak as a fusty old woman in a suit—but represent the Great brand; handing out 25,000 start-up loans, a some of the different parts of our society. It is a failure third of which have gone to women; changing the tax in democracy that people are becoming less committed code so that home businesses do not typically have to to believing that it is the best way to run a country or, as pay business taxes; introducing growth vouchers to help Churchill put it, the worst form of Government except 1109 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1110 for all the others. People feel less comfortable about it see that the majority of them have not benefited from and I think that one of the ways in which we can make that. The average pay of women entrepreneurs—lone, them feel more comfortable is by letting them see people self-employed women—is £9,600, according to the Office like them in this Chamber. It is a big challenge for all of for National Statistics. That group of women has not us to make sure that the diversity of all our communities benefited one jot from the increase in personal allowance. is represented in Parliament. When Mr Speaker was in the Chair, he challenged us Emily Thornberry: Is it not also right that, if the to name women whose portraits should be in this place. minimum wage was raised to a living wage of £7.65 outside I nominate Baroness Ros Howells from the other place, London and £8.80 in London, 1 million more women who did so much, following the fire that killed so many than men would benefit from it? teenagers in Deptford, to bring that evil murder to light and get justice for the community. Perhaps Mr Speaker will read Hansard and commission a portrait of her. Fiona Mactaggart: Absolutely—my hon. Friend is quite right. I started by talking about the rape and murder in India. We have to focus on how many women are After the election of 101 Labour women in 1997, I murdered, because it is a terrible problem across the did a piece of work about how much difference was world and in the UK. The recent Femicide Census made by having a lot of women in Parliament. One of showed that 694 women had been killed by men over the most obvious differences was a shift from the wallet four years and that 46% of them were killed by men to the purse. Fiscal decisions made by that Government they loved. hugely increased the income of women and, to a lesser extent, benefited men. The problem is that precisely the Mary Macleod: Does the hon. Lady agree that domestic opposite has happened under the present Government. abuse statistics in the UK are still intolerable? Two I am really sad about that. I do not believe that that was women a week still get killed in the UK by a partner or intended by Government women and I want them to be former partner. allies in trying to remedy the problem. I want to talk specifically about older women and Fiona Mactaggart: Yes, I do—that is absolutely work, because there is a real crisis about keeping women horrifying—and I am really worried that the reduction in work. One statistic that is burnt on my brain is the in quality refuge provision for women who are at risk fact that two thirds of the people who work beyond means that more women will be murdered. retirement age are women. Two thirds of those women As I have said, we should not just shift our culture earn entry-level wages, while two thirds of the men, who and understanding, but change things. I invite every are the other third of people who work beyond retirement Member to vote on Tuesday week for a real change for a age, are on top-level wages. The story is that the guys very vulnerable group of women: domestic workers keep going because they are enjoying themselves—they who are grossly exploited by their employers. The other have chauffeurs, and there are all the nice things about place has tabled an amendment to the Modern Slavery being on the board—but women continue to work Bill and we have an opportunity to support it when it because their families need the money. comes back to this House. I am absolutely certain that In public services, we do not have an intelligent way the Government have no intention of doing that, but of keeping women in touch with the workplace. I praise following this debate we could decide that our commitment the Government for appointing Dr Ros Altmann to to those women—bold, brave women who have their look at the needs of older workers. I am very glad that passport taken away and are expected to sleep on the she is about to produce a report that, for example, will kitchen floor and, in some cases, to work for 24 hours look at women and menopause. From talking to for no money—is more important than our commitment organisations such as the Royal College of Nursing and to our party Whip. If we did that, we would demonstrate the National Union of Teachers, I know that the people that this debate expresses solidarity among women— for whom they are taking employment cases are women because, overwhelmingly, domestic workers are women in their 50s and 60s who have been managed or pressed and they are enslaved here in Britain—that we will not out of their careers. As one woman in my constituency put up with it and that we will be prepared to stick out said, “What happens is that you are always first in the our sharp elbows and make a difference for that group queue for redundancy and last in the queue for a new of women. job.” It is very striking that our jobcentres do not make As I have said, the third role of Back-Bench debates enough of a difference for such women. The Work is to advance policy. Over the past few years I have been programme has found sustained employment for just banging on about older women—a category that I over 10% of the women over 50 referred to it, which is never particularly expected to get into, but it crept up much lower than the level for men of the same age on me and bit me on the bum. It is a real issue that the group and lower than the level for every other group. peak earning point for men comes when they are in We do not have an intelligent strategy to help to keep their 50s, while the peak earning point for women older women in the work force. comes when they are about 40. The narrowing of the What is worse is that one reason why older women pay gap is being achieved not by Government policy, come out of the work force is that we are the default but by history, because, although it has narrowed for carers, as other Members have said. We not only make younger women, it is enormously wider for older women. sure that there is breakfast cereal on the table, but we It is great for Government Members to say, as the look after the children, the grandchildren, the elderly right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham relatives and our husbands when they have a sudden (Mrs Gillan) has, “Look at all these people we’ve taken illness. Yet we do not have proper policies to ensure that out of tax,” but if we look at women’s income, we will a women who suddenly has to do unexpected caring can 1111 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1112

[Fiona Mactaggart] Mary Macleod: Does my right hon. Friend not think that the fact that half the constituents of all hon. have a period of adjustment in her employment to work Members are women shows the importance of this out whether the person she is caring for is going to die, debate? which means that she could go back to work at that point, or whether they will have long-term caring needs. Mrs Spelman: Indeed. My hon. Friend nudges me to We do not have a policy on adjustment leave in the make, for the record, an observation about the choreography UK—some individual employers do, but the majority in the Chamber. I believe that nine women on the do not—and it seems to me a no-brainer that the Government Benches and three women on the Opposition Government should legislate to provide for such leave. Benches are going to speak—from time to time, an hon. The Government should also legislate to enable women Gentleman has entered the Chamber, and we are very who take time out to stay in touch with the workplace. grateful to those who have intervened—which is incredibly When they have to leave to look after someone, they important. I never know whether we should refer to lose contact with the workplace and cannot find help to this, but I want to record that a lady is sitting in the get back into it. In a recent e-mail to me, Ms Altmann chair of the Serjeant at Arms. All that is incredibly wrote: important to the outside world, but there are not enough of us in the Chamber for a debate of this importance “I would like to see special programmes introduced to help about more than half the population. women carers (and male carers…) back into the workplace after they have taken time out, or more flexible working to allow them to combine work with caring.” Mrs Gillan: When I was reading through some of the debates from the 1992 to 1997 Parliament, I noticed The Government may have to incentivise employers to that in one such debate—I will talk about it if I catch do that, but it is a no-brainer: if we want to use all the your eye, Mr Deputy Speaker—nine or 10 men spoke or talent that exists in our community, we need to let intervened. I regret that there are not more Members in women make such adjustments. the Chamber for this debate, particularly those who are The problem with policies made when women are not not of the fairer sex. in the room is that women are regarded as “not men”—as though their lives were the same as men’s lives when Mrs Spelman: I hope that today’s Hansard will be actually they just are not. For example, women’s prisons read, and that more hon. Gentlemen will be in the are very ineffectual at helping women to rehabilitate Chamber in subsequent debates on international women’s themselves. Why? Because they think that work is the day. We sought this debate to mark that day, of which best form of rehabilitation. That is absolutely true for this year’s theme is entitled, “Make it happen”. It is men, but the best form of rehabilitation to prevent important for us in Parliament to mark the day, and in women from reoffending is being able to look after their doing so we are standing with women all around the children. If a woman is given the chance to be reunited world who will mark it in their own forums and in their with her kids and to look after them, she is enormously own way. less likely to offend. Yet despite all the insights of the Corston report, we do not have a national programme The year 2015 is an auspicious one for international to ensure that that happens for every woman, which is women’s rights, because it is precisely 20 years since the just sad. Beijing declaration and platform for action, on which my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and That is an outcome of not ensuring that women can Amersham (Mrs Gillan) led the UK delegation. That think through every bit of policy. In Back-Bench debates, occasion really moved forward the world’s understanding, we can criticise policy and say that we have better ideas, with an agenda for women’s empowerment which but we need to be on the Cabinet Committees and in on particularly focused on health care, education and violence every decision. If we were, instead of women being against women. treated as men who menstruate, we could treat them in 2015 is an auspicious year for a debate on international accordance with the reality of their lives, and we could women’s day because the millennium development goals devise policies to ensure that we employ women’s talents come to fruition and the post-2015 framework that will in the work force, use women’s ability to care for our follow them is in the throws of being decided. It is families and have a society in which women play the important to ensure that the concerns of women are at role of which they are absolutely capable, but which the heart of that debate because, as is often said, they cannot currently play. globally, poverty has a woman’s face. In 2015 the World Bank will also announce its social safeguards, including gender equality throughout its work. 12.36 pm Let me mention the important work of the United Mrs Caroline Spelman (Meriden) (Con): Through Nations Women organisation, which was established in you, Mr Deputy Speaker, may I thank the Backbench 2010, and its head and executive director, Phumzile Business Committee for allowing us to have this debate Mlambo-Ngcuka. It works on several key areas: leadership in the Chamber of the House of Commons? When I and political participation, as well as ending violence went with my right hon. and hon. Friends to ask for it, against women. I wish to focus on its work on economic the Committee listening to our petition was entirely empowerment, and what it is doing to make that happen. made up of hon. Gentlemen, so we particularly appreciate It is important to increase gender equality, reduce poverty the courtesy they have afforded us in allowing this and encourage growth, but empowering women to work debate to take place in the Chamber. Last year, the and empowering women economically is necessary to debate I had secured was held in Westminster Hall, and break down the disadvantage they suffer from. When that was noticed by people outside Parliament. more women work, economies grow. If women’s paid 1113 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1114 employment rates were raised to the same level as men’s, use financial services such as bank accounts and insurance. the United States’ gross domestic product would be an It has helped 4.5 million women to own and use land by estimated 9% higher, that of the eurozone would climb supporting reforms to land and inheritance rights. Those by 13%, and Japan’s would be boosted by 16%. Therefore, things begin to reduce the serious disadvantages from in 15 major developing economies, per capita income which women suffer. The work of UN Women on would rise by 14%. That is the evidence produced by economic empowerment includes improving access to UN Women. jobs for women, reducing wage disparities, and helping women to accumulate economic assets and increase Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) their influence on institutions that govern their lives. (SNP): I am listening intently to the right hon. Lady, and she is making a good argument that I have heard in Jeremy Lefroy: The first director of UN Women was many places. It is essentially an argument for equality— Michelle Bachelet, now President of Chile for the second gender equality, but also social equality across the time. Does my right hon. Friend agree that one great income bands in our country. In Sweden and other thing that could be done to advance this cause would be Nordic countries, we see the benefits of the argument for the next Secretary-General of the United Nations to she is making to all in society, compared with more be its first female head? unequal societies and the disadvantages that follow on from that. Mrs Spelman: My hon. Friend makes an important suggestion, and no doubt there are candidates preparing for that. Let us hope that a sufficient number of women Mrs Spelman: The hon. Gentleman makes a good come forward as candidates, as that is always the difficulty point, and he has cited the Scandinavian countries that with top jobs such as that. I hope they will heed his demonstrate best practice. Sadly, so much of the riskiest, encouragement. lowest paid work in the world is performed by women, compounding the disadvantages they suffer from, and UN Women has noted with particular concern the that is what UN Women has sought to tackle. Evidence marginalised groups of women, which include from a range of countries shows that increasing the “rural women, domestic workers, some migrants and low-skilled share of household income controlled by women women”, changes spending in ways that benefit their children and it is right to focus on those categories. As well as disproportionately. There are wide-ranging benefits for practical action to empower women and increase their societies in empowering women economically. In the economic independence, we must also tackle prevailing global economic context, women are still seriously social norms that act against women in their economies. disadvantaged in the workplace, and they have lower In many countries, social norms mean that some jobs participation rates and higher rates of unemployment. are seen as unsuitable for women, or that female labour They also have a greater propensity to be in vulnerable is always seen as low-skilled. Social norms can also types of work. A wage gap still exists and women are mean that women’s income is seen as “additional pocket over-represented in lower-paid jobs. The situation is money”rather than essential income for their households. bleakest of all in the developing world, where poverty is It is good to mention men who have advocated on still rife. behalf of women, so let me mention the well-deserved I pay tribute to the work of the Department for accolade that the central banker for Bangladesh, Dr Atiur International Development and its recognition that we Rahman, received for his initiative to enable mobile must help the needs of women more. The UK has made phone banking for garment workers in Bangladeshi a significant achievement in reaching the target of 0.7% factories. Such practical initiatives make a big difference. of gross national income for aid. That money is spent The United Nations’ HeForShe campaign, which on a wide range of areas, but one of DFID’s key invites men to advocate for women, was launched by priorities is to improve the lives of girls and women in our very own Emma Watson last year. More than the world’s poorest countries. Before you entered the 227,000 men have signed up so far globally, including Chamber, Mr Deputy Speaker, Mr Speaker invited us 28,000 in the UK—we might encourage hon. Gentlemen to make a few suggestions about how we might dilute in this House to sign up. It is about recognising that the preponderance of male portraiture in politics that equality and empowerment is not just a women’s issue— adorns the walls of the Houses of Parliament at both hence the need to involve men in the process to achieve ends. To add to the gradually increasing list, I suggest it. In her speech launching the campaign, Emma Watson that we consider former International Development said: Secretaries such as Baroness Chalker, who became so “We all benefit socially, politically and economically from well known for what she had done for the world’s gender equality in our everyday lives. When women are empowered, poorest people that she enjoyed the lovely nickname of the whole of humanity benefits. Gender equality liberates not “Mama Africa”. No doubt in due course the Secretary only women but also men, from prescribed social roles and of State for International Development, my right hon. gender stereotypes.” Friend the Member for Putney (Justine Greening), will A very astute observation. It is also good to applaud the find her place among the political portraits. work of my hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Sir William Cash), who has taken up the cause of women, Let me return to the serious subject of what DFID is including difficult subjects, all of which helps the status doing to address the needs of girls and women, which it and standing of women. states clearly lies at the heart of everything it does. We must stop poverty before it starts, because a girl starts at Some progress on the economic empowerment of a disadvantage even before she is born. Much has women has been achieved through the millennium already been achieved. DFID’s actions have helped development goals, in particular goal 3, which is to 2.3 million women to get jobs and 18 million women to “promote gender equality and empower women”. 1115 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1116

[Mrs Spelman] particularly older women, being seriously left behind on wage differentials. We should take action on a cross-party As Ban Ki-moon pointed out: basis. “The Millennium Development Goals recognised that gender There are still many areas for improvement. Research equality and women’s empowerment are essential to tackling produced by Cambridge university’s Murray Edwards poverty, hunger and other global problems”. college, entitled “Women Today, Women Tomorrow”, As we look to the post-2015 development agenda, we clearly showed that the most difficult challenge its need to ensure that women are at its very heart. respondents faced in their careers was still the non- The year 2015 also provides an opportunity to review supportive culture of their workplaces. the Beijing platform for action, as this year’s commission The workplace of Parliament is a difficult workplace begins next week. It takes place from 9 to 20 March, for women. I call on you, Mr Deputy Speaker, as well as and will be attended by representatives of all member the Front Benchers, to take forward the recommendations states, UN entities and non-governmental organisations in “Improving Parliament”, particularly that calling for from around the world. Where men and women have the creation of a new Select Committee on equalities to equal rights, societies prosper. consider departmental policies and programmes and “Equality for women means progress for all”. scrutinise Government performance on equality. It is Those are not my words, but those of the Secretary-General. significant that the House’s own workplace equality network, principally a staff network, strongly supports Mary Macleod: I attended the UN Commission on the call for such a Select Committee to be created—the the Status of Women during both the last two years, but conditions in which women work affect our staff just as last year I was disturbed by the lack of media coverage much as female Members of Parliament. in the UK during the event and afterwards. Does my Let me finish with the simple observation that we right hon. Friend have any thoughts on how we could need more women in this place—and, in the spirit of raise the profile of the commission and what it discusses, this year’s theme, we need to make it happen. given that it is so important for women around the world? 12.54 pm Mrs Spelman rose— Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): I apologise for not Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. We being here at the start of the debate. I had not originally need to speed up the debate a little because we are intended to participate, because I have taken part in running out of time. There are still a number of speakers similar debates in the Chamber as well as Westminster waiting to contribute. I ask subsequent speakers to aim Hall many times over the past 30 years, and in those for speeches of 10 to 14 minutes, which would be very debates a variety of Members, male and female, have helpful. joined in the call for greater equality for women in this place and elsewhere. Mrs Spelman: I thank you for your guidance, Mr Deputy To strike a consensual note at the beginning, I agree Speaker. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member with the right hon. Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) for Brentford and Isleworth (Mary Macleod), who has about Lynda Chalker. I shadowed Lynda Chalker for a done outstanding work on the all-party parliamentary number of years, and always thought she should have group on women in Parliament, leading to the report been in the Cabinet—Margaret Thatcher should have “Improving Parliament”. I hope it will be taken up and put her there. I am therefore pleased to support the idea that the changes it calls for will be made. of having a portrait of Lynda Chalker somewhere on Let me deal briefly with economic empowerment in the parliamentary estate. She was an excellent Minister the United Kingdom, without repeating what others and she continues her work elsewhere. have said. I want to take up a theme about FTSE 100 I am here because I was listening to the debate and companies. It is true that significant progress has been realised that no one was going to mention female genital made in ensuring that every single FTSE 100 company mutilation. I introduced legislation to amend the Prohibition now has a female on the board, yet still only 6.9% of of Female Circumcision Act 1985, yet there have been their directors are female. I throw out a challenge to a no successful prosecutions. I view prosecutions as essential, female figure in the City—Fiona Woolf, for example—to because they will provide a real warning to the people invite all the chief executives from the FTSE 100 companies who continue to carry out this practice. Unfortunately, I to come and present their female board members and doubt whether it will be stopped without prosecutions. two mentees from their own organisations whom they An attempt at a prosecution was mounted a few months seek to promote to senior leadership roles. There are ago. A piece I read about it was headed: “FGM Trial. examples of good practice. Antony Jenkins, the chief Why has no one ever been convicted in Britain despite executive officer at Barclays, set a target of 26% of the practice being illegal for 30 years?” senior leadership positions being held by women, and Everybody knows that “female genital mutilation” is Barclays is on track to meet it. There are other such a collective term for a number of procedures, including examples. the removal of parts, or all, the external female genitalia The Government have taken important action to for non-medical reasons. FGM has no health benefits, empower women in our country economically, looking and its dangers include severe bleeding, problems with at issues such as the pay gap, recruitment, retention and urinating, infections, infertility, complications in childbirth promotion. I agree with the hon. Member for Slough and increased risk of death for the new-born. It is (Fiona Mactaggart) that we should work together across internationally recognised as a violation of the human the House to deal with anomalies such as women, rights of girls and women. 1117 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1118

The World Health Organisation estimates that more She was first elected to this House in 1984, and I think it than 125 million girls and women world wide are currently was in 1985 that she had the opportunity in the private living with the consequences of FGM. The UK Members’ Bill ballot to introduce legislation. Having Government estimate that up to 24,000 girls under the been in that position myself, I know how inundated age of 15 are at risk of FGM in the UK. A report from with suggestions Members are when they strike it lucky City university London, undertaken in collaboration in the ballot, but she chose the banning of female with Equality Now, estimates that approximately 60,000 girls circumcision. It is a tribute to her and her work that it up to the age of 14 were born in England and Wales to became law in 1985. I think it was amended in 2003. mothers who had undergone FGM. Like her, I cannot believe that we have not had a single There is a large minority Somali community in some successful prosecution to date in the UK. I hope that is areas, particularly in Wales. I recently attended a talk by something that those listening to this debate outwith an assistant police commissioner who failed even to this Chamber will take on board, and make sure that mention the subject of FGM. I wonder whether the this absolutely abhorrent practice is stamped out in the efforts made in education, medical circles and so forth UK, if not in the whole world. are enough to contribute to stopping this practice in those communities. The legislation that I pushed through Margot James: Does my right hon. Friend agree that Parliament in 2003 raised the maximum penalty for the Government’s recent announcements and the placing FGM from five to 14 years in prison, and made it an of responsibilities on the health service and schools for offence for UK nationals or permanent UK residents to reporting suspicions of FGM should help to bring carry out FGM abroad, even in countries where it is about a prosecution, and hopefully many more prosecutions legal. I hope there will be lots of campaigns. One led by in the future? Fahma Mohamed and supported by The Guardian and change.org. called on the Government to require all Mrs Gillan: I very much hope so. We need to pay schools to teach about FGM and raise awareness of its more attention to this. My hon. Friend may know that associated dangers. A related e-petition, “Stop FGM I have been a great supporter of mandatory reporting in the UK Now”, has been signed by more than of sexual abuse for a long time, because of the efforts of 200,000 people. As a result, the Education Secretary my constituent Tom Perry. I think this falls into a wrote to all schools and issued new guidance on the similar category, and I hope we make good progress. teaching of FGM. The right hon. Member for Cynon Valley entered the Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): I have been listening House in 1984. I think she is the longest-serving Member carefully to my right hon. Friend’s contribution to this in the Chamber at the moment, and I am probably the very important debate. I am sure she will be pleased to second-longest-serving Member. [Interruption.] The hon. hear that I shall be joining an assembly at Frederick Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil) makes Gough school tomorrow at which an outside organisation a comment from a sedentary position. I am certainly will be giving a presentation on the very matter she is the Mother of the Government Benches in this debate, talking about. Education is going on today in our although I am not sure how much good that does. In the schools. 23 years I have been in Parliament, I have seen an awful lot of changes: changes that have been good and changes Ann Clwyd: That is very welcome information. I am that I am surprised have not happened. Sadly, we still sure those on the Front Benches will have further have an awfully long way to go at home and abroad information on measures that have been taken to stamp before women truly have equal roles and responsibilities out this abhorrent practice. in politics, public life and business, and have true equality. I join my right hon. Friend the Member for Meriden Mary Macleod: Just to emphasise the right hon. (Mrs Spelman) in calling for the implementation of the Lady’s point, last year in my constituency in West report she referred to in her contribution. Middlesex hospital there were 50 cases of FGM. They were noted only because those women happened to be I hope we can build on what I and colleagues in the giving birth. I think this is far more widespread than we 90s originally called the “mainstreaming” of equality can imagine. issues in legislation and in this House. It is sad that today, all these years later, we are having to contemplate Ann Clwyd: I thank the hon. Lady and agree with her setting up a Select Committee to deal with this. But as on that point. I think a lot is going on under cover and we have not mainstreamed gender issues in our legislation has not yet been exposed. There is a real need for and in the activities of this House and in the wider proactive and determined enforcement and prevention, world, I add my voice in support of a Select Committee including sex and relationship education in all schools. of this nature, as I would support the calls for Baroness I believe wider action is needed to prevent young girls Chalker to be immortalised in bronze, in oils or something becoming victims, and to prosecute those who practise else entirely. It is important to remember, Madam Deputy FGM. This should be a key part of any strategy to Speaker, that in my time in this House I saw the first tackle violence against women and girls. It is simply female Speaker, in the form of Betty Boothroyd. I am wrong for there to have been no successful prosecutions second to none in my admiration for the contribution for FGM in all this time. If they can do it in France, that woman made in the Chair. Our two female Deputy why can we not do it in the United Kingdom? Speakers also make an excellent contribution to this place. [HON.MEMBERS: “Hear, hear.”] 1.1 pm May I just bang the drum a little bit for my party? I Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): am pleased to say that Baroness Shepherd was in fact It is a great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member the first Minister with specific responsibilities for women’s for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) and I pay tribute to her. issues in Government. Time moves on and we seem to 1119 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1120

[Mrs Gillan] Opportunities Commission, which was headed that year by Kamlesh Bahl, and the Women’s National Commission. forget that both the Labour party and the Conservative They put in the most tremendous work. party—with other parties, I would admit—have tried to forge the way forward for women. When I was looking Fiona Mactaggart: Does the right hon. Lady share at some background papers for this debate, I was particularly my regret about the abolition of the Women’s National pleased to see that under this Government all the FTSE Commission? 100 companies have at least one female board member. There are more women in work—they now number some 14.4 million—than ever before. Colleagues have Mrs Gillan: I think, as with everything, time moves mentioned other firsts, but I would like to mention one on. Not least, devolution has broken up what used to be close to my heart, which is the Right Rev. Libby Lane the Equal Opportunities Commission of Great Britain becoming our first Church of England bishop. That is a and Northern Ireland in the days when I was responsible milestone. Wing Commander Nikki Thomas this year for it. However, there is still a requirement for organisations became the first woman to command an RAF fast jet that represent equal opportunities, and so perhaps in squadron. I remember when I was doing my armed that sense I do join the hon. Lady in regretting it. forces and parliamentary fellowship with the RAF that The Beijing conference was inspirational. There were much was made of Jo Salter, who was our first RAF 17,000 participants and 30,000 activists. The NGOs fast jet pilot. It is good to see women taking their place were based some way out of Beijing, and there was in the front line, quite rightly, and we should continue to inclement weather. Many of these women and champions allow that to happen. of women attended the conference in some of the most I am proud to have been the first female Secretary of amazingly awful conditions of mud and deprivation State for Wales, and I am pleased to be joined on these because they were so desperate to pursue their single Benches by two other colleagues who have served as full purpose of gender equality and the empowerment of Cabinet Members. It is right that we need to have more women. women progressing up the political ladder and that they As my right hon. Friend the Member for Meriden have the opportunity to make a contribution to this mentioned, this is the 20th anniversary of the Beijing country, particularly at Cabinet level. I pay tribute to conference. The UN has given its main campaign the my right hon. Friends the Members for Basingstoke title “Empowering Women, Empowering Humanity: (Maria Miller) and for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) who Picture It!” with “Make it happen” as the subtitle. The both made very valuable contributions to the government platform for action was the most progressive blueprint of this country. ever for advancing women’s rights. UN Women says that even 20 years later, the Beijing declaration and These debates are not new to me. In fact, on 7 March platform for action remain a powerful source of guidance 1996, as the Under-Secretary of State at the Department and inspiration. With no fewer than 189 Governments for Education and Employment with responsibility for involved in its drafting, one can imagine what was women’s issues under Baroness Shepherd—what a long involved. The civil servants on my team spent many title that was!—I was able to introduce the debate on hours, including through the night, fine-tuning the international women’s day. It was, I believe, for a document so that we could all sign up to it. In many Conservative the first debate on the Floor of the House countries, the tenets it set out have proved to be a in Government time. It is sad that we have gone backwards, platform for improvements for women. Around the having to apply to the Backbench Business Committee world, UN Women says that more women and girls to have this debate, and that it had been relegated to than at any previous point in time now serve in political Westminster Hall. Mainstreaming of this matter should office, are protected by laws against gender-based violence, mean that the Government of the day, of whatever and live under constitutions guaranteeing gender equality. complexion, secure this debate on or around international I would say, however, that no country has yet finished women’s day on the Floor of the House every year. It the agenda. I really hope that in this 20th year since the should enter the political lexicon. declaration we can give more impetus to progressing the When I introduced that debate, I had recently returned critical areas of concern that were set out. I hope that in from Beijing where I had led the UK delegation at the winding up this debate or in any declarations that are UN conference on women. Baroness Chalker was alongside made on 8 March the Minister will ensure that the me, again fighting the good fight, as was Baroness Government set out what they are going to do to build Browning, who was then the Member for Tiverton and on the platform for action. Honiton. I have to say that I greatly miss Baroness In the mission statement of the declaration, we stated Browning in this House. Among her other nicknames that one of the objectives was the from male colleagues she was often referred to, in a “full realization of all human rights and fundamental freedoms of friendly fashion, as Boudicca. At least Boudicca is all women” immortalised in public art in a bronze not far from here. Perhaps we could do with a few more women outside and was essential for the empowerment of women. I among the bronzes that decorate our city. want to explore this a little further in the light of propositions that are being made to change our own We were in Beijing to consider the progress made on human rights legislation and our relationship with the women’s issues since 1985 and negotiate the very large European Court of Human Rights. I declare an interest document on the global Platform for Action. We had in that I am a member of the Council of Europe and taken 18 months to prepare for the conference, working serve as vice-president of the Political Affairs and with the most amazing women’s organisations and Democracy Committee in that capacity. I am today non-governmental organisations, including the Equal seeking assurances that we will not be taking any action 1121 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1122 that would weaken the protections afforded to British for Basingstoke (Maria Miller) and for Meriden citizens and, in the context of this debate, particularly (Mrs Spelman) and others for leading the application, women. holding the fort before the Committee, and securing a For example, one of the proposals is to limit the debate in the main Chamber. I join my right hon. reach of human rights cases in the UK so that British Friend the Member for Meriden in saying how important armed forces overseas are not subject to persistent it is that we take every opportunity to hold this debate human rights claims that undermine their ability to do in the main Chamber. I think we are all very pleased to their job and keep us safe. That sounds very sensible be here today. and something we could all agree with. However, this International women’s day unites us all across the change could prevent, for example, a case that was planet and gives us an opportunity not only to discuss brought recently under article 2 of the European convention issues where there has been significant progress on on human rights, which enabled the tragic death by supporting women but to highlight issues where there is suicide of a female Royal Military Police officer after still much more to be done. The theme this year, as we reporting that she had been raped in Germany by two have heard, is “Make it happen”, and I know that we colleagues to be re-examined in a fresh inquest. That are all united in trying to achieve everything we can. re-examination allowed the full circumstances of the One of the huge privileges of having the role of background to her suicide to be taken into account, and Member of Parliament is the chance to visit businesses the Army has now introduced a special code of practice and local organisations in our constituencies. Over the exclusively to deal with blue-on-blue rape and sexual past five years, I have had the chance to meet many assaults. We have to ask whether, if we limited the reach inspirational women leaders in my constituency. They of human rights cases to the UK, it would be possible probably do not realise it, but they are true role models to pursue that case. for many others, particularly young women in the area. The current situation on human rights has afforded Let me give a few examples. Furniture making and much needed justice in many cases involving women. upholstery is a long-standing traditional industry in my The tragic case of my namesake, Cheryl James, who was constituency. We are still world leaders in that field. For found dead at the Princess Royal barracks in Deepcut, example, we have Steed Upholstery. Caroline Steed is has taken a long path since her death in 1995 to July one of the family members leading that business extremely 2014 when Liberty successfully used article 2 of the successfully. She is a very knowledgeable, intelligent ECHR—the right to life, which includes the right to an business woman who is very calm in her approach and effective and independent investigation when there is a has always been extremely helpful, particularly to a new state involvement in the death—to gain the High Court Member of Parliament who had not previously seen order for the original verdict to be quashed and a fresh how a sofa is made from scratch but is now, I can assure inquest to take place. all Members, quite in tune with it. Let us consider modern problems. Liberty persuaded I think of our local head teachers. Women are leading Dorset police not to return intimate photographs of many of our junior schools in Erewash. I think of the sexual abuse victims to their abuser by using article 8 of voluntary sector as well. I am a big fan of the girl the ECHR, which provides for a right to private life. If guides. We had a summit in Erewash, and girl guides, any proposal is going to restrict the use of human rights rainbows and brownies from all over Derbyshire descended laws to the most serious cases, this sort of action and on it, along with their leaders, who are wonderful protection may be prevented and may be unable to be women. They give up so much time to support girls and brought. The photographs of the abused children were young women, and theirs is such a brilliant organisation. just family photographs—they were in swimsuits enjoying Many people have been praised by other Members themselves—but their potential return to their abuser for their contributions to business and society, and on his mobile phone after he came out of prison added indeed politics, in Britain. I want to mention Julie to their feelings of exploitation and powerlessness. I Bentley, who leads the girl guides movement. She is a would be very concerned if this sort of protection, and fantastic leader, and has described the girl guides as the means whereby it could be invoked, were to disappear. “the ultimate feminist organisation”. I have had the I hope that no changes that we make to human rights pleasure of sharing a platform and a debate with her. law would prevent what I consider to be an important She was truly remarkable: a very impressive woman. I plank in the protection of women and children in this do not know whether any Members had an opportunity country. to hear her being interviewed on “Desert Island Discs” As we celebrate women and their achievements here in the last few months, but it was a fascinating programme. and throughout the world, I hope we can use the You will be relieved to know, Madam Deputy Speaker, 20th anniversary of Beijing to refresh our efforts to that one of her choices was Eminem—I shall not repeat achieve the vision we aspired to for a world where women the lyrics of any of his songs—but she also chose and girls can exercise their freedoms and choices, and Eurythmics and Aretha Franklin singing “Sisters Are realise all their rights. I hope that we would not contemplate Doin’ It for Themselves”, which, perhaps, makes our a narrower set of laws that may be regressive and may point. not allow future generations of women either here or The Erewash Partnership provides support for businesses, abroad to be fully protected from the sorts of circumstances networking and leadership. This year, to mark its 25 years that I outlined in the latter part of my speech. of success, it moved to new premises, which were opened by another local woman, Saira Khan. As some Members may recall, she appeared in the first series of the television 1.17 pm programme “The Apprentice”, and she has gone on to Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con): I, too, thank the Backbench have a successful career in business and the media. We Business Committee for its support for this debate. I were very lucky that she came to the constituency to particularly thank my right hon. Friends the Members support the partnership. 1123 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1124

[Jessica Lee] Jenny Willott: Does the hon. Lady agree that we should also think about the toys that children play with The role of women who have gone before us, particularly when they are extremely young, and ensure that they those in public life, has already been mentioned. Members have a variety of experiences? Should we not encourage have cited, for instance, suffragettes and politicians. I girls to play with science and engineering kits, rather want to tell a story which, although it may be sad, is than confining those exciting toys to the boys’ aisles in very important. It concerns a young woman who has supermarkets so that girls think that they can only dress made a huge impact, which she probably never realised up, play with dolls and so on? would happen. That young woman was also called Jessica—Jessica Gauntley. I had the privilege of meeting Jessica Lee: I am all for that. As a child, I was never her family, but, sadly, I never met Jessica. She lived in happier than when I was playing with Lego. [Interruption.] my constituency, but at the age of 15 she fell very ill, No, I do not still play with Lego. I focus entirely on my and she lost her battle against a brain tumour. work. I have no doubt that that young woman has left not As I was saying, more women are taking managerial only a deep void among her loved ones, but a huge and other senior roles in companies in my constituency. legacy which has had an impact on a great many people In many households, they are the main breadwinners. I in my constituency. She was such a vibrant, intelligent, grew up near my constituency, and I need look no energetic young woman. She inspired a campaign, the further than my own family for strong female role Jessica Hope Foundation, which has raised a huge models. My mother was our main breadwinner. She was amount of awareness of brain cancers, and has done a a paediatric nurse in the NHS for more than 40 years. huge amount of fundraising. Looking back, I have no idea how she managed to run a As I said earlier, that is a very sad story about household, to bring up three children, some of whom a young woman, but I think it important that her legacy were more trouble than others—I was no trouble at all, lives on. She is one of many women who have been able of course—and to work full time for very long hours, to achieve such a thing, and we thank her for it. I also doing night shifts at Queen’s medical centre in Nottingham. thank her family for their kindness, and for involving me My interest in current affairs was sparked by my in their campaign when it has been possible for them to maternal grandmother. I remember clearly being shown do so. the newspapers by her as a child. We were not a political Members have referred to the founding of international family—there was no party politics—but she used to women’s day. It was originally concerned with justice in show me the international pages, saying, “You need to the workplace, but has expanded to include many other learn about the world around you. You need to know important matters that are relevant to women. As others about current affairs, and what is happening all over the have said, when it comes to women in business and the globe.” She also said, “Politics is not just for the boys at workplace there is always much more to do, but we have school, you know.” That is what sparked my interest in made progress in this country. There are now 14.4 million politics, and I am happy to have the chance to mention women in work—more than ever before—and more my grandmother in the House today. women lead businesses than ever before. In the 12 months to September 2014, 80.1% of women aged between We need to encourage women to enter public service 16 and 64 were employed in Erewash, compared with and all the professions. I must say that, although I 71.5% of men. Historically, when a number of traditional might not have succeeded for many other reasons, it industries in my constituency have declined, women never occurred to me that because I was a woman I have taken the lead in acquiring senior managerial roles could not, would not or should not go into politics. in local businesses. That never even crossed my mind. My basic motivation—I think that the same applies to many women in the Near my constituency is a branch of Roll-Royce House—was to get things done. We may disagree across International, which does a huge amount to promote the House about exactly how we are to achieve that, but women, particularly as apprentices, and to promote surely we all agree that we go into politics to get things their careers in science, technology and engineering. done. Bombardier plays a similar role. We are lucky to have those companies, because they set a great example. When I talk to young women in my constituency, There has been a big campaign to attract more women particularly sixth-formers, I tell them that although the to science and engineering, and those businesses are 30 minutes of theatre that is Prime Minister’s Question doing just that. Time has its place and its tradition in the House, it is during the week that the valuable cross-party work is Margot James: My hon. Friend has given the excellent done, in Select Committees and all-party parliamentary examples of Rolls-Royce and Bombardier, which have groups—and, of course, there is the Backbench Business been encouraging women to take up careers in engineering. Committee. The list goes on and on. Those rewarding Such careers require scientific qualifications. Does she projects, involving cross-party work and themes on agree that it is imperative for us to encourage girls to which people are united, are extremely satisfying, and stick with the sciences when they are very young and that is often the way in which things get done. have the necessary aptitude? Is that not crucial to their potential career choices when they become adults? Mary Macleod: I always felt that I could do anything Jessica Lee: I entirely agree. We must ensure that, in life. That was partly due to my mother—I have that in from an early age, girls are interested and motivated, common with my hon. Friend—but there was also the that they are aware of the variety of jobs that they can example of people such as Baroness Thatcher, who was obtain through science and engineering, and that they Prime Minister when we were growing up. She was an understand why those important subjects are relevant incredible woman, and she showed us that anyone could and can create a fascinating career path. achieve anything. 1125 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1126

Jessica Lee: I entirely agree. One of my earliest memories and the hon. Member for Erewash (Jessica Lee) for of watching current affairs programmes is of watching securing the debate, and I thank the Backbench Business programmes about the miners’ strike and, before that, Committee, too. the Falklands war. I remember asking at home, “Who is We have had an extremely wide-ranging debate and this person?”, and being amazed and impressed that we important issues have been raised on both sides of the had a woman Prime Minister. House. Indeed, Parliament has an important tradition As for the message that we should convey, it is true of marking international women’s day at a time when that we need longevity in the House, but I think it a we must recognise the challenges we face in achieving great idea to tell women who may be thinking about gender equality in Britain and around the world, as well becoming Members of Parliament but do not want to as celebrating the achievements of women. The right be in the House of Commons for ever, that that is hon. Member for Basingstoke was right to focus on fabulous too. We need to support the choices that Formula 1 female driver Susie Wolff and on the first women make, or want to make, so that they can achieve female bishop, as well as on important issues about the goals that they want to achieve, while juggling all equality in the workplace and in politics, and securing a their other responsibilities. commitment from the Speaker to put up a new set of women’s portraits based on the recommendations of Mr MacNeil: The hon. Lady is making an excellent Members. speech. Both it and today’s debate are about closing the My hon. Friend the Member for Islington South and gaps in society. At the root of these gaps are economic Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) made some very passionate gaps between men and women. That is part of the remarks, not least on the need for men to do more equality agenda, too, as I mentioned earlier. The gaps housework, but also on the importance of equal pay between the richest and the poorest are reflected in and checking that our law is still fit for purpose. male-female issues, and she is highlighting very well the The hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Mary role models who are helping to change the situation, Macleod) called for a new Select Committee, and I particularly in her own constituency. These are the congratulate her on the important work she has done in people who lead, and others do follow. I congratulate the all-party group for women in Parliament. She also her on her speech. talked about women and entrepreneurship, and as a fellow Hounslow Member of Parliament I certainly Jessica Lee: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind recognise the importance of supporting women in business comments. There has been progress. This is not a party across our borough. political speech, and we have made huge steps in this My hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Parliament towards having more women in the workplace Mactaggart) made a passionate speech and raised some and closing that gap, and taking more women out of sensitive and important issues about making sure that tax entirely. A high proportion of the millions of people there is no cultural excuse for violence against women who are now out of tax are women. These things are and girls. She also talked about the documentary “India’s important in giving women choices about their lives and Daughter”, which was shown on BBC 4 last night, and they help them to make decisions for themselves and the issues it raised about cultural attitudes to gender their family. and the place of women in society and the rights of Today is international women’s day and others have women as equals not just in one nation but across the spoken with far more insight and experience than I have world. She also raised some important issues around about the issues on the international agenda. For my older women and access to work and equal pay, and part, in the course of this Parliament I have had the also women in prison and how their rehabilitation opportunity, through the Conservative party, to go to differs from that of men. Kenya and work with women politicians there, to deliver The right hon. Member for Meriden raised some training on democracy and modern social media important issues about the empowerment of women campaigning skills for elections, although I am sure I economically. The HeForShe campaign makes clear the learned far more from them than they ever learned from important principle that gender equality is not just a me. That group of motivated, intelligent, dedicated matter for women; it is also a matter for men to engage women politicians was extremely formidable and capable. with. I felt very united with women in another part of the world who felt the same way: they wanted to get on and I also recognise the efforts of my right hon. Friend get things done. That is the key to being passionate the Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd), who has about public service. done an incredible amount of work to move forward legislation around female genital mutilation, and who I am looking forward to celebrating international remains a passionate campaigner on that cause and on women’s day and I feel that my service as an MP has ending FGM in a generation. enriched me in celebrating it. I believe I have more knowledge and am far better informed, motivated and The right hon. Member for Chesham and Amersham committed to fighting the corner for women across the (Mrs Gillan) talked about gender-based violence as well globe as we celebrate this very important day. as child abuse and the protection of young girls at risk. She also referred to the importance of ensuring that the Beijing platform for action continues to be recognised 1.32 pm and built on for future generations, until we realise its Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op): goals. I am delighted to have the opportunity to speak in this The hon. Member for Erewash talked of Girlguiding important debate. I thank the right hon. Members for and its work, as well as the representation of women in Basingstoke (Maria Miller) and for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) business and science and representation more generally. 1127 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1128

[Seema Malhotra] passed the Equal Pay Act 1970. That is why I am proud that Labour has backed the ten-minute rule Bill introduced I would like to make a few general points recognising by my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Sarah the importance of international women’s day across the Champion), which demands that large companies show nation. It will be marked by a range of events, not least their commitment to equal pay for men and women by in Hounslow on Saturday where up to 1,000 women publishing their gender pay gap. Parliament voted in from all faiths and communities are expected to come favour of her Bill, but the Government have so far together, recognising the role women play in working refused to implement it. together to build strong networks in society and sharing I am also proud of the role that successive Labour that common goal of tackling inequality. Governments have played in ensuring progress by breaking The “women of the world” festival at the South Bank down barriers and enabling women to smash the glass is also holding a range of events connecting politics and ceiling. Labour introduced the Equal Pay Act 1970 and civic society, and this year’s global theme of “Make it the Sex Discrimination Act 1975, as well as introducing happen” is incredibly important in continuing to inspire the national minimum wage—which we are committed the work done by so many organisations. We have heard to raising to £8 an hour—which helps around 1 million mention of Plan UK, Women for Women, Co-ordinated people a year, the vast majority of whom are women. Action Against Domestic Abuse, and the violence against We extended maternity leave and doubled maternity women and girls campaigners across the country, including pay. We also introduced paternity leave, which I believe on FGM, RISE UK, Women’s Aid, Refuge, the Hollie has shifted our national culture and indeed the debate Gazzard Trust and the White Ribbon Campaign. about the role of men in the home—the other side of Two weeks ago I joined my right hon. Friend the the coin as we also debate the role and progress of Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford women in the workplace. (Yvette Cooper) and my hon. Friend the Member for I want to move on to political representation. I think Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) and the tireless campaigner that there will be agreement on both sides of the House Lynne Franks for “one billion rising”, a campaign that that it is a matter of shame for our nation that only 23% recognises that over the course of their lifetime one in of Members of Parliament are women. Internationally, three women on the planet will be raped or beaten; we rank either 57th or 74th—depending on the measure staggeringly, that is 1 billion women. We also know that used—out of 190 countries for the number of women in one in 20 children under 18 is sexually abused in the Parliament. That is hardly a record of which we can be UK, 90% by people they know. We have also heard proud, given that we are referred to as the mother of mention of the fact that two women are killed each Parliaments. Political representation matters, because it week by their partner or their ex here in the UK, and is through diversity in decision making that we get the that a staggering 1.2 million women reported incidents best decisions. We bring the reality of women’s lives into of domestic violence last year. our parliamentary debates. We have 650 MPs today, yet only 370 women have ever been elected to Parliament, Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Some in total. I am told that I was the 366th. of us have been in Committee during this debate, but However, although the number of women MPs in some of us have very powerful women in their family; I Westminster has increased, representation at the most have three daughters and a wife, and also a lot of senior level has decreased. Five women currently hold women constituents. Those of us who served on the Cabinet positions—around 14%—but what matters is anti-stalking campaign know that there are many challenges not only representation but women’s access to positions still to meet. Does my hon. Friend agree that, looking at of power. It is significant that around 45% of Labour’s the recent cases of abuse against young women and shadow Cabinet are women. Should Labour win in girls, we need to think seriously about changing the age May, we will form the most gender-balanced Government of consent—moving it up a year, just as a signal—and that Britain has ever seen. doing something about the way the police take things Positive action has been taken in the Labour party to for granted and become very casual about whether it is increase women’s representation in Parliament, but positive proper to prosecute for statutory rape after the age of 12? action is not enough on its own. We need to see more women from all backgrounds coming forward to stand Seema Malhotra: My hon. Friend makes some important for election—women of different ages, from different points. I will be touching on a couple of issues around ethnic minorities and from different parts of the United girls’ safety and recognising that we have a particular Kingdom. I pay tribute to the groups that campaign for role in making sure that the world is safer for young and encourage women to come forward in politics, women growing up today. including the 50:50 Parliament campaign, EMILY’s List, the Labour Women’s Network, the Fabian Women’s I have been undertaking a series of girls’ safety summits Network and the equivalent Conservative and Liberal around the country, and what I have found staggering is Democrat groups. Women’s political rights can be the commonality of experience, whether among young meaningless unless they are matched by social and girls in Rotherham, in Croydon or in Hounslow. They economic rights. A woman with the vote is not equal if have a sense that society is not on their side as they go she is subject to violence, poverty and exclusion from about their ordinary lives, even going to and from society. Politics has to be connected with our campaigns school. They do not always feel safe, and to some for social and economic progress, and the representation extent, adults have buried their heads in the sand when of women in Parliament is vital to achieving all those it comes to the reality of young people’s lives today. goals. I want to make a couple of points about equal pay. This has been an excellent debate. The gender agenda Women today still earn only about 80p for every male- needs to stay on Parliament’s agenda. We should be earned pound, 45 years after Labour’s Barbara Castle confident and proud of our role in the world. We must 1129 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1130 ensure that we make progress on the rights of women However, we should not kid ourselves that it is all and girls, progress on their need for education, safety fine, because it is not. It is not okay that three quarters and clean water, and progress in the workplace. These of company directors in the FTSE 100 are male. It is arguments must be heard at every level of Government not okay that girls and women face a continual stream and of the international political decision making bodies. of sexist insults and abuse, as documented by the Everyday We must do our job of keeping the law up to date in Sexism project. It is not okay that there is still a 19% support of equal rights, and this place needs to lead the gender pay gap. It is not okay that two women a week fight to empower, encourage and inspire girls and women are killed as a result of domestic violence. It is not okay in Britain and across the world to achieve their dreams. that 40% of teenage girls report being coerced into In doing that, we will make progress for future generations. having sex. It is not okay that a pregnant MP who dares to aspire to a Cabinet role should be subjected to a 1.44 pm sexist diatribe by various sections of the media. And it The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Women is not okay that three quarters of MPs are men. So we and Equalities (Jo Swinson): It is a great pleasure to still have a lot more to do. respond to this important and enjoyable debate and to In the debate today we have heard not only celebration follow the hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema but a call to arms for the tasks and battles ahead. My Malhotra). I join her in congratulating the wide range right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Maria of groups and organisations that do so much to campaign Miller), the former Minister for Women and Equalities, for the rights of women and girls, particularly on the has undertaken excellent work to ensure that revenge subject of representation, which is key to this whole porn is properly criminalised and that action is taken in agenda. that regard. She made the case for a House of Commons We have heard excellent speeches today from Members Select Committee on women and equality, as has the on both sides of the House, although not quite enough all-party parliamentary group for women in Parliament. men have contributed to the debate. I hope that in That is long overdue. There seems to be an obvious gap future years more of our male colleagues will be tempted in our Select Committee structure and, although this is to take part, and I offer my sincere thanks to those hon. not a matter for the Government, I hope that the Gentlemen who have taken part today. powers that be in the House will give the matter serious consideration as the new Parliament convenes in a few Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): I should like to weeks’ time. intervene at this point. We have also heard that more progress is needed on Jo Swinson: I shall certainly give way to my hon. finding ways of celebrating women around Parliament, Friend. including perhaps through portraits. We heard many Bob Stewart: One of the reasons I came to listen to good suggestions from various contributors, and I am the debate today was that I want to applaud women. In sure that Mr Speaker and others will look at them with my experience—I am talking about my military interest in Hansard. experience—they are not just equal; they are sometimes We heard from the hon. Member for Islington South at a higher level. Women are fantastic at running operations and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) about a range of rooms, for example. They are better than men at doing issues. She talked movingly about how women, whatever that. Also, I often used to choose a woman, rather than they decide, will always feel that they have made the a man, to run a negotiation or a mediation. On international wrong decision. It reminded me of a piece I heard on women’s day, we should not only applaud women for Radio 4’s “The News Quiz”, where Sandi Toksvig, in an being equal but emphasise the fact that they can be answer, said, “Of course women cannot get it right, can much better than men at doing some things. they? If they have no kids, they are heartless. If they Jo Swinson: My hon. Friend makes the case for have children and stay at home, they are lazy. And if having diversity within teams so that a wide range of they have children and go out to work, they are selfish.” skills can be brought to any given task. In response to silence from the other panellists she then said, “It’s not a joke. It’s just a rant.” I very much We need to strike the right balance in these debates enjoyed that rant, and she was just stating a point of between celebrating progress and harnessing energy for fact: women are judged for whatever they decide to do. change. It is right that we should celebrate the great We should be much more accommodating of recognising progress we have seen in the past five years. We have that people make different decisions. seen a huge increase in the number of women on company boards, for example, and the first woman The hon. Lady also talked about how women are still bishop. Also, the First Secretary of State and Leader of doing two thirds of the unpaid work, and I wholeheartedly the House of Commons, my right hon. Friend the agree that that is one of the major barriers to equality. Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), has done It is one of the reasons why I am so enthusiastic about excellent work to propel up the international agenda the the changes we have made to introduce shared parental issue of preventing sexual violence in conflict. We have leave, because I do not believe we will be able to get seen changes in employment law to extend the right to equality in the workplace until we get more equality at request flexible working and to introduce shared parental home. Interestingly, Sheryl Sandberg points out in her leave. Tax threshold changes have taken 3 million people excellent book “Lean In” that one of the important out of taxation, 58% of whom are women, and there choices a woman makes for her career if she wishes to has been new legislation to criminalise forced marriage, have a family is what the partner she chooses to do so to expand the definition of domestic abuse and to with is like, because the attitudes he takes will have a introduce new stalking offences. And of course, there massive impact on how she is able to juggle career and are more women in work than ever before. family responsibilities. 1131 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2015 International Women’s Day 1132

[Jo Swinson] My right hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman) talked a lot about the international My hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth elements of international women’s day and highlighted (Mary Macleod) talked about women in business, giving the HeForShe campaign, which I agree is hugely important; a huge range of examples of successful business women, men do have a vital role to play in this. Like her, I found many of whose websites and shops I have to confess to the way Emma Watson kicked off that campaign absolutely using. I appreciate what they do from both a business amazing. Listening to the power of the speech given by perspective and a consumer perspective. I also pay that young woman, I thought she was a credit to the tribute to the work my hon. Friend has done for business entire country in setting out the case so brilliantly. women in her constituency and more widely, particularly The right hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) with the all-party group. talked about FGM and was absolutely right to highlight My right hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central this abhorrent crime. We are taking strong action on (Jenny Willott) talked about the importance of many that. We have set up a specialist unit to deal with women with young children setting up businesses, and FGM—we held the girl summit last year—and to take using that as a catalyst to make the change, and that of global leadership. However, in no way do we think that course can lead to great success. She also mentioned the this is not a problem in the UK—it is, as well as in other important issue of how we set expectations early as to countries. That is why we are introducing a mandatory what girls and boys should be interested in, and whether requirement for all health care and social care professionals they take on scientific or more domestic roles. She and teachers to report FGM to the police. The lack of discussed how the toys they use at an early age can have prosecutions is a problem, but that mandatory reporting an impact. That is so important because, as the recent will enable the evidence to be gathered. I hope and Department for Work and Pensions campaign “Not believe that situation will change in the future. just for boys” shows, we have a massive shortage of It was wonderful to hear from my right hon. Friend women in many sectors such as science, engineering and the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Mrs Gillan) technology, and it is important that we address that. I about the original Beijing conference and Platform for have to say that #notjustforboys is a pretty good hashtag, Action that she attended, along with the drafting process but it does not compete with one of the best hashtags of 189 Governments having to agree the text. That ever, #dinosaursforall. That is about a campaign set up sounded interesting and it showed that, obviously, Members by women who are very frustrated that Marks & Spencer of the House have been working on this for a long time. has launched a new range of clothing, in conjunction [Interruption.] It is 20 years since that Beijing conference, with the Natural History museum, that has dinosaurs but there is much more to do. all over it and, surprise, surprise, it is marketed only at boys, because girls could not possibly be interested in Mrs Gillan: The Minister is making good progress in dinosaurs. Tell that to my niece Charlotte—she would her wind-up. It really brought it home to me when I said certainly disagree. Although these sometimes appear to to my researcher that I did this back in 1995 and she be more light-hearted examples, the messages we send said, “Oh, I was four then.” to children are very important in terms of what they grow up thinking they can and cannot do. Jo Swinson: Indeed. Interestingly, my right hon. Friend The hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) said that the text prepared then is still incredibly relevant. spoke movingly about the recent documentary on the That is not only a testament to excellent drafting, but, rape in India, and I agree with her that it is to the credit in a sense, it is slightly depressing. She raised a specific of the media in this country that they do showcase these issue about human rights protection, its extension and issues and highlight these problems. She is absolutely the armed forces case, and I will endeavour to write to right to say that we must demolish these rape myths—the her with more detail on that specific legal point. victim is never to blame. She also talked about older workers and said that she is looking forward to the My hon. Friend the Member for Erewash (Jessica report from Ros Altmann, as am I. We are recognising Lee) spoke movingly about her constituent, and the some of the specific challenges that older women might legacy that young Jessica has left from her campaigning. face, particularly carers. That goes back to the point My hon. Friend also spoke about support for Girlguiding made by the hon. Member for Islington South and UK, which I agree is a fantastic organisation, and its Finsbury, who said that women tend to do two thirds of campaign to get girls’ voices heard in the forthcoming the unpaid work, because older women often have those election is to be commended. I believe my hon. Friend is caring responsibilities. That is why we have recently the only contributor today who has announced that she launched a £1.6 million project to run pilots with local is standing down, so may I say that it should be noted authorities on how we can get carers into employment that in just five years she has made an excellent contribution and make sure they are properly supported. I hope the to this House? It is sad that she has decided to stand results of those pilots can show us some good evidence down. She will be missed, but I am sure she will continue about how we might take further projects forward. The with her contribution and campaigning in other guises. hon. Member for Slough is also absolutely right to say In conclusion, I have certainly found it a huge privilege that women need to be around the Cabinet Committee to serve as Minister for Women and Equalities. I have tables and in those positions of power. This is about been supported by some wonderfully passionate and power, and much as I dearly love my male colleagues, dedicated officials at the Government Equalities Office, who do a fantastic job in standing up for their women and I wish to put my thanks to them on the record. It is constituents, we need that diversity of representation if absolutely right that we celebrate progress, but whatever we are truly to get the action we need on this wide range the outcome of the election, whatever the colour of the of issues. Government in office and whoever is the Minister for 1133 International Women’s Day 5 MARCH 2015 1134

Women and Equalities—I dearly hope to be able to Welsh Affairs continue this work—there is still a huge amount to do. We must continue to be impatient and create that change. 2pm 1.58 pm Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con): I beg to move, That this House has considered Welsh affairs. Maria Miller: I thank all right hon. and hon. Members It is almost five years since I was elected Member of who have supported and contributed to today’s wide- Parliament for Montgomeryshire. I wish to take this ranging debate. I particularly thank the Leader of the opportunity to say what a huge pleasure it has been for House, who earlier gave his personal support for the me to serve the constituency in which I have always idea of establishing a women and equalities Select lived. It is a great honour for me to open this debate Committee, and Mr Speaker, for agreeing to consider today. the need to put women front and centre in this place through the portraiture that is on display. Those are I am very grateful to the Backbench Business Committee practical changes, but the improved scrutiny can make a for allowing a St David’s day debate, even if it is four real difference. I also thank the Backbench Business days late. I hope our patron saint will forgive us for that. Committee for its support and its understanding of the The normal business schedule of the House, which importance of holding today’s debate in this Chamber. usually timetables such debates on Thursdays, means As the hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) that we can hit the right date only once every seven said, it is our responsibility through debates such as this years. to shift culture, forge alliances and achieve policy changes. The general nature of this debate allows us to speak This debate, in some small way, will have contributed to about a wide range of issues that impact Wales, and I the objectives she set, particularly in highlighting the am sure that Members will speak about many different issues that still need to be addressed. The debate has things. I wish to begin by making a few introductory also demonstrated that women are here at the table comments before turning briefly to the economic well-being participating, not observing, and determining the future of rural Wales. I shall end with some initial thoughts on of our country. the Command Paper, which was issued by the Secretary of State last week in response to the Silk commission Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Rarely recommendations. have I found it as difficult to sit in this Chair and say In preparation for this debate, I have researched a nothing as it has been this afternoon. I have achieved little of the history of St David. It seems that he that, but I think I can preserve my impartiality while travelled widely before settling down in Pembrokeshire, congratulating all those who have taken part on an which is one of the most beautiful parts of Britain. If he excellent and essential debate—it is essential that it had been alive during the eight years that I represented should take place in this Chamber. mid and west Wales as an Assembly Member, he would Question put and agreed to. have been one of my constituents, so I feel a special Resolved, connection with him. That this House has considered International Women’s Day. Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): He probably would not have voted for you. Glyn Davies: Indeed. St David did many wonderful and awe-inspiring things in his long life, including preaching with such passion and fervour at Llanddewi Brefi that the earth rose up around him to form a hill. The most amusing reflection on that stunning achievement was made by the late great Dr John Davies, who said that he could not “conceive of a miracle more superfluous than the creation of a new hill at Llanddewi Brefi.” That is a good reflection on Dr John Davies as well as on St David. But It was an impressive trick none the less. Holding a Welsh affairs debate on or near St David’s day is not an old tradition of this House. I discovered that while I was reading through the speeches of those who had previously opened what is now the annual Welsh debate. I was hoping that one of my great political heroes, David Lloyd George, had opened a Welsh debate at some stage so that I could say I was following in the great man’s footsteps. However, the first Welsh debate was not held until 1944 by which time the great man had retired from the House. None the less, the first Welsh debate was opened by a Lloyd George—it was Dame Megan Lloyd George, the great man’s daughter, who represented Ynys Môn before the rise to power of Cledwyn Hughes and, indeed, that of the current excellent Member of Parliament for Ynys Môn. 1135 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1136

[Glyn Davies] event for Wales, and represented a major step forward in the process of Welsh devolution. It is too early for That leads me to the second part of my speech, which any of us to have made a full assessment of the detail of is the economic temperature of mid-Wales, specifically the package, which will have to await the Wales Bill in of my constituency of Montgomeryshire. Reading Dame the next Parliament. Megan Lloyd George’s speech in 1944, it struck me how At this stage, there are just four issues I wish to little has changed in 70 years. In 1944, Dame Megan mention. First, I greatly welcome what I consider to be spoke of a crisis in the dairy industry, a focus on south the most important proposal in the Command Paper, Wales at the expense of other parts of Wales, and an which is the move to a reserved powers model of Welsh almost total absence of concern for mid-Wales. I could devolution. It is sensible that everything should be so easily have spoken about those same issues today. considered devolved, unless it is specifically reserved to One memorable line from Lady Megan’s speech caught Westminster. Soon after I was elected to the National my eye. Sometimes I am not sure whether some of our Assembly for Wales in 1999, I realised that the reserved colleagues representing English constituencies fully powers model was needed to give clarity and greater understand how we Welsh function. Lady Megan stability to the devolution settlement. There may well understood that very well. She said: continue to be occasions when a Supreme Court is needed to establish a competence, but under a reserved “No Englishman can understand the Welsh. However much he may try, and however sympathetic he may feel, he cannot get powers model it would be far less likely. That is the most inside the skin and bones of a Welshman unless he be born important change included in the St David’s day package, again.”—[Official Report, 17 October 1944; Vol. 403, c. 2237.] and I hope that we can deliver it in the next Parliament. I hope that that explains some of the ways in which we The second important issue is the devolution of income Welsh behave in this House. tax powers, and here I fear I take a very different view from many other MPs, particularly those on the Labour In 1944, my constituency of Montgomeryshire was in Benches. I see the proposals as a complete package, serious long-term decline. The population had dropped which includes the responsibility of levying a significant from more than 50,000 to 36,000 and was falling like a proportion of income tax in Wales. I have spoken on stone. There were very few employment opportunities that issue several times before in this House. I feel so for ambitious young people, who were forced to leave strongly about it that I do not believe we should devolve the area in search of work. Regional policy had not one iota more power to the Welsh Government until been yet introduced to rural Wales. It was 20 years later income tax powers are devolved. I accept that any new that such policies were introduced by a Labour Government Wales Bill will have in it a commitment to a referendum and they continued under successive Conservative on the issue before it becomes a reality, but for the life of Secretaries of State. me I cannot understand why. Montgomeryshire has now been transformed. Today If returned as a Member of Parliament on 8 May, I it is a genuine success story, with thriving businesses shall table an amendment to any future Wales Bill to and the lowest unemployment in Wales: only around remove the need for a referendum, and I expect to be 500 people are registered as unemployed. The population supported by Members of every party in this House of Montgomeryshire is now 63,000 and rising. It is not except Labour, which is desperate to avoid any fiscal just that new businesses have moved in, but that much accountability to the people of Wales. The Welsh of the area has been built up by local entrepreneurs. Government simply want to carry on claiming credit for Coincidentally, I visited some entrepreneurs last Friday. what voters like and blaming Westminster for what the Members may have seen the yellow Alun T. Jones voters do not like, avoiding any tough decisions and lorries around Wales. I knew Alun when we were teenagers. preferring comfortable impotence to facing up to the He has grown to be the Eddie Stobart of Wales, employing tough decisions that Governments must take. How can very large numbers of people. I then went to the impressive it be thought right to refer to the Welsh Assembly as a mid-Wales airport, which was established by the late Welsh Parliament, as we all want, while clinging to a Bob Jones who was tragically killed in an air accident, position that means it is in reality not a great deal more and is now run by his wife Linda. It is entirely a private than a spending body? sector company. Again, I knew Bob when we were teenagers. Another proposal I greatly welcome is the commitment to a Barnett floor. We know that Wales has been I then went to a water bottling plant, which is run by underfunded through public spending granted through Paul Delves in Churchstoke, where another 70 are employed. the block grant for decades, but changes to public He is another local lad who has done well, and I could spending by the coalition Government mean that list dozens more. Over the past five years, the level of underfunding has fallen to a virtually insignificant level. confidence in Montgomeryshire business has grown The Secretary of State has pulled off a historic victory hugely, built on the stability and sound economic policies for Wales by securing agreement to retain the current of the Conservative Government. Of course there is level of comparative spending as a floor below which more to do. We want to restore the economy to where UK Government support to Wales via the block grant we want it to be, but none of the businesses want to risk will not fall no matter what changes to public spending a return to more public spending and more public debt. are made in future. It is a huge win for Wales, and every Finally, I wish to mention the Command Paper, party in this House should welcome it. which was published by my right hon. Friend the Secretary When a devolution of income tax powers was first of State last week. It outlines a St David’s day package proposed, the First Minister of Wales said that should of changes to the devolution settlement between the not happen until the lockstep was removed. It has been UK Parliament and the National Assembly for Wales. removed. Then there was the Barnett deficit, but that Its publication was a very significant constitutional has been removed as well. Now it is something else, and 1137 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1138 then it will be something else again. The truth is that Welsh Government—say. In England, we are seeing a Welsh Labour hates the thought of being financially drive to devolve powers to city regions and local councils, accountable to the people of Wales. whereas in Wales we are seeing a centralisation of power in the hands of the Welsh Government. Mr Llwyd: I partially agree with the hon. Gentleman St David chose Wales as his home. He was a very wise about the Barnett floor, but there is one other glaring man. He created a hill that, together with thousands of omission: there is no discussion about taking fair funding other hills, makes Wales the wondrous landscape that it for Wales forward. That is a big mistake and should is today. I was born among those hills, I shall always live have been considered within the purview of this Command among them. We have a duty to protect Wales for our Paper. children so that they can enjoy it as much as we have Glyn Davies: The right hon. Gentleman is a man for and as we do today. whom I have huge respect as a Member of this House. 2.15 pm He is retiring, so may I wish him well in the future and say that he has made a wonderful contribution to this Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab): I remind the House House? that this used to be called the St David’s day debate. This is an area on which I am a bit unsure. To my This is not St David’s day, but the feast day of St Caron mind, the win we have tackles that problem. We have of Tregaron, a third century Cardiganshire saint. I hope virtually eliminated the deficit and if that becomes the that we can remember him during the course of the day. Barnett floor, funding can rise but cannot fall below it. I do not know whether this will be my last speech in this That is an absolutely fantastic win, and I would be Chamber, but it might be. It will certainly be my last surprised if the Secretary of State did not go in to a speech in a Welsh day debate. little more detail about it in his speech. The hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) mentioned the first time that the House met to consider Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab): As ever, the hon. Welsh affairs in this format in 1944. I cannot remember Gentleman is giving a thoughtful and heartfelt speech. I that, as old as I am, nor can I remember Lady Megan forgive him for suggesting that the deficit has been dealt Lloyd George in the House, although I remember her. with, as he put it; it was still £75 billion the last time I However, I remember my first contribution to a debate looked. However, does he think that Wales would definitely on Welsh affairs 27 years ago, from the Opposition be better off or worse off if we were to have and exercise Benches. Peter Walker was the Secretary of State and tax-raising powers? That is the great lacuna in the Tory the late Alan Williams, whose life we have commemorated proposals. and celebrated this week, was the shadow Secretary of State. When I looked at the speeches that I and others Glyn Davies: This is how the antipathy towards being made on that occasion, I could see that things have not responsible through income tax in Wales manifests itself changed all that much. We had a Conservative Government in questions and comments from the Opposition. There with Mrs Thatcher as the Prime Minister and the burning should not necessarily be any difference. We will be issue was the poll tax. Today, of course, we have the responsible just as we are now; it is just that the people right hon. Member for Witney (Mr Cameron) as Prime of Wales will have a responsibility to know what the Minister and in the valleys of south Wales and elsewhere Welsh Government are doing. If the Welsh Government we have the bedroom tax as the poll tax mark 2, want to raise more money, they can suggest it and they something that will undoubtedly be a major issue in the can become accountable for what they doing rather weeks and months ahead and in the general election. than just blaming Westminster for virtually everything I was interested in the points that the hon. Member that people do not like. for Montgomeryshire made about accountability and My final point is about the proposal to devolve fairness and about the need not to blame Westminster power over energy projects of up to 350 MW to Wales. I all the time for the ills that confront Wales. Let us accept the logic of the proposal and supported it during remember that when we were debating Welsh matters most of my eight years as an Assembly Member, but 27 years ago, there was no Welsh Assembly. There was a since 2005 the obscene determination of the Welsh Welsh Office and the Secretary of State was a Member Government to desecrate mid-Wales with hundreds of of the British Cabinet. In 1987, the amount of money wind turbines and pylons has made it impossible for me being taken away from Welsh local authorities was to continue to support it. The behaviour of the Welsh significant, and that has not changed either. Many local Government, and particularly the First Minister, has authorities in Wales are setting their budgets this week. been shocking and has demonstrated total contempt for Mine in Torfaen set its budget yesterday; the very able the people of Montgomeryshire, whom I represent. It Councillor Anthony Hunt presented the budget to the should be a real concern to every Welsh MP that local authority. He said that he had to see a reduction of because the people of Powys have refused to bow down £6 million this year from my local authority’s budget on before the Welsh Government’s bullying, the First Minister top of £6 million last year and probably another £6 million intends to remove planning powers from local planning next year. The Government have reduced the amount of authorities and to take them for the Government in an money given to the Welsh Government, so £1.5 billion act of power centralisation, to ensure that the Welsh has been cut from the Welsh budget. Cuts are being Government can push things through despite any local pushed from one tier of government to another, so resistance. The Secretary of State may well want to ultimately the local council has to implement the decisions comment on this anti-devolution tendency. that result from that. Those cuts have come indirectly While we talk about devolution in this place, we have from Whitehall to Cardiff, whereas 27 years ago it was a a Welsh Government who are bringing everything back more direct route, but the effect is exactly the same. to themselves simply so they can get their own way in Local authorities today and then face enormous difficulties the parts of Wales that do not do exactly what they—the in dealing with them. 1139 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1140

[Paul Murphy] question has been an issue for every year that I have been in this place. It has to be resolved, but in a I want to turn the attention of the House to the consensual manner. The impression that was given in nature of Welsh matters in this Parliament after the Scotland, and indeed beyond, the day after the result of general election of 7 May. My hon. Friend the Member the referendum was, “Okay, you voted to stay in the for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) and the hon. Member for United Kingdom, and now we are going to take away Montgomeryshire did well to go to the Backbench the powers of Scottish Members of Parliament.” That Business Committee and secure this important debate, was a grave error, not in terms of the constitutional but I regret that they had to. It is not as well attended as question—we have to resolve that one way or the other—but it would normally be, for obvious reasons; we face a presentationally. It meant that those of us who wanted general election in some weeks time. The Welsh day the Union to continue, especially in Scotland, were put debate was set up in 1944 to ensure that there was a in a difficult position. We were told that, despite the forum here in the House of Commons not just for so-called victory for those who wanted the Union, they Welsh MPs to discuss here in Westminster what matters would have to be denigrated as Members of this House. in Wales, but for every Member who wished to do so So when everyone except a few of us is returned to take part. this House of Commons from Wales, we will have to reflect seriously on the responsibility and role of Welsh Mr Llwyd: I agree with what the hon. Gentleman Members of Parliament as Members of a United Kingdom says. He will recall that a couple of years ago he and I Parliament. I am a British Member of the United applied for such a debate and were eventually successful. Kingdom Parliament who happens to represent a Welsh The point that he makes is correct. Everyone should be constituency. Everything that I do can be done by any able to participate in the debate, not just Welsh Members. other Member, whether they represent Scotland, Northern It is important that that should be so. Ireland or England. That in my view should be the case. We may be able to change the methods by which the Paul Murphy: As an aside, I add my tribute to my House of Commons works in order to deal with the West right hon. Friend. He is leaving, like me. We have been Lothian question, but essentially we are all the same in good friends for a long time, and we have attended these this place. debates in the House over many years. It is important I have done a bit of research on other countries, and I that we retain the Welsh day debate, the Welsh Grand can find no country in Europe or beyond that makes a Committee and the Select Committee on Welsh Affairs, distinction between Members of the federal Parliaments chaired very ably by my neighbour the hon. Member for and their national Parliaments in what they can or Monmouth (David T. C. Davies). It is important that cannot do. Therefore, although many English Members we retain the position of Secretary of State for Wales, to are aggrieved, their grievance cannot go to the extent be held either by my hon. Friend the Member for that it undermines the fundamental nature of the United Pontypridd (Owen Smith) or by the right hon. Member Kingdom and this Parliament. It would be a grave for Preseli Pembrokeshire (Stephen Crabb), the current mistake if we went down that particular line. Secretary of State, after the election. I have nothing against the current Secretary of State—he is a fine I have had the great privilege of doing the job of man—but I hope that the positions are reversed, for Secretary of State for Wales on two occasions under obvious reasons. two Prime Ministers, and I believe that there is a job to be done by whoever holds that office, from whatever If we do not ensure that the institutions affecting party. I am not speaking in a partisan way. In fact, those Wales are retained here in the United Kingdom Parliament, hon. Members who have known me for some years will we will affect the way in which our country, by which I realise that that is not my style. Often in the House most mean the United Kingdom, goes forward constitutionally of us agree on most things—not always; that is the in the decades ahead. We have already seen an enormous nature of politics, and nor should it be. change in the political landscape, not simply because we On this matter we should agree. If we did away with have had devolution for 15 years or so in Wales, Scotland the territorial Secretaries of State, the link between the and Northern Ireland. The changes have been beneficial devolved countries and Westminster and Whitehall would to the people of Wales and undoubtedly, as a consequence disappear. The role of the Wales Secretary is to represent of the Command Paper, that will continue. However, we Wales in the Cabinet and to represent the Government face even greater seismic change. in Wales. We would be foolish to do away with that vital The Scottish referendum was won—ish—by we who link between two Governments and two Parliaments. I opposed separation for Scotland, but in a sense it was a can quote dozens of occasions when journalists here in pyrrhic victory. I do not know what is going to happen— London who do not understand the nature of devolution obviously, no one does—after 7 May, but an earthquake said, “Let’s put them all together. Let’s do away with the may well occur in Scotland if the Scottish National Secretaries of State.” Indeed, many Members of this party gains the number of seats that pollsters and Lord House believed in that, too, not understanding the very Ashcroft have predicted only today. They suggest that nature of the job. No one is going to take much notice almost every seat in Scotland will be represented by the of me, but I make a plea to whoever becomes the SNP. I do not think that that will be the case—I Government and the Prime Minister to retain the territorial certainly hope that it is not—but clearly a big change is Secretaries of State. If we do not, it will be another nail happening. We have to reflect on all the changes and in the coffin of the Union, which is so important for all how they impact on this place. of us as Members of this British Parliament. I think that the Prime Minister made a fundamental I have had the great privilege of representing my mistake the day after the referendum by referring to the constituency for nearly three decades. I have represented issue of English votes and English laws. I am not saying the good people of the eastern valley of Gwent. I hope that there is not an issue; the so-called West Lothian that whoever succeeds me will have the same duties, 1141 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1142 responsibilities, privileges and rights. I have been the Mr Jones: The interest is declining—that is the point. Member for Torfaen, but also a Member of Parliament Had we not taken those difficult decisions, we would be of this United Kingdom like any other Member. If we spending more money on paying interest to banks than do not maintain that, not only the House but our on providing services to the people of this country, so Union will be in danger. my hon. Friend is right. Five years on from that— 2.30 pm Mr David Jones (Clwyd West) (Con): May I say what Owen Smith: Does the right hon. Gentleman agree a great privilege it is for me to follow the right hon. that the styled cuts, as he put it, also resulted in a Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy), who has been such massive increase in in-work poverty, resulting in an an outstanding Member of the House? I am sure I extra £9 billion spending on social security under this speak on behalf of all the Members present when I say Government? that we all wish him a very happy retirement, although I half suspect that we may be seeing a bit more of him in Mr Jones: The decisions that we took were difficult the years to come. and, clearly, people have felt pain. But people across the The right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd board have felt pain. It is interesting to hear the criticisms (Mr Llwyd), too, will be leaving this House after a from the Labour party. What would have happened if distinguished career. He and I have known each other that party had remained in power? Where would we be for a very long time—longer than either of us would now? Under this Government 1.85 million new jobs care to mention—since we were both practising law in have been created. That is 1.85 million people with the the magistrates courts of north Wales. I wish him, too, a security of a pay packet every week and the dignity that very happy retirement. employment brings. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) for his opening speech Owen Smith rose— and the Backbench Business Committee for agreeing to this debate. It is an important debate, which we should Mr Jones: No, I will not give way. I will continue for a have every year because it is, as the right hon. Member while. for Torfaen points out, extremely important that the Those new jobs would not have been created, had the unique issues that concern the people of Wales should hon. Gentleman’s party been in power. be ventilated in this Chamber. In my constituency, Clwyd West, the improvement is We are in the final weeks of this Parliament and this tangible. The last Labour Market Statistics showed that debate is as useful an opportunity as any for us all to over 12 months, the number of people claiming jobseeker’s take stock. In constitutional terms, Wales has seen great allowance or not in work and claiming universal credit changes, some of which were initiated by my right hon. fell by 519 over 12 months—an annual decline of 34.5%. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham Those figures are mirrored right across Wales and right (Mrs Gillan), who gave strong and sterling service as across the UK. In January, the International Labour Secretary of State. But there are more changes to come, Organisation measure of unemployment was 1.86 million which were announced by my right hon. Friend the people, down 486,000 on the previous year. Prime Minister in Cardiff last week. These will be matters for the next Parliament and we will all have our Owen Smith rose— views as to the course that those changes should take, but this is a useful opportunity to consider what has Mr Jones: No, I will not give way for the moment. happened over the past five years. These are strong, substantial changes, which we should In 2010 the incoming coalition faced the worst set of all welcome, even the hon. Member for Pontypridd economic circumstances that any incoming Government (Owen Smith), while acknowledging the task ahead. had faced since, possibly, the 1930s. The country was [Interruption.] He will have plenty of time to speak. still reeling from the crash of 2008 which, although a global catastrophe, was more keenly felt in Britain than I would like to focus my attention today primarily on perhaps in any other country in the developed world north Wales, which is the part of Wales in which I have because Britain was carrying the worst structural deficit lived nearly all my life and which I know best. I was of any major country, largely as a consequence of what brought up in the village of Rhosllanerchrugog near I would term the economic mismanagement of the Wrexham, a very unusual, strange, unique and wonderful Labour Government. The coalition Government therefore, village. At the time of my boyhood, most of the working in which I had the privilege to serve for more than four men were employed in coal mines and in the steelworks. years, had difficult decisions to take. We are constantly Since then, there have been huge changes. We all know criticised for what are styled as cuts by the Opposition, that the coal industry has virtually gone and the steelworks but cuts were essential. It is the easiest thing in the in north Wales are much smaller than they used to be. world for any Government not to take the difficult But now, north Wales is the home of dynamic new decisions. We took those difficult decisions. industries. The wings of every Airbus aircraft that flies anywhere David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): Does my in the world are made in Broughton, in north-east right hon. Friend agree that one of the biggest cuts that Wales. Close to Broughton is the Deeside industrial we have made is in the amount of interest that we are estate, part of which is now an enterprise zone. There, paying the banks on the increasing amount of money high-tech industries serve customers across the globe. that we were previously borrowing, and that that is one Deeside is one of the most dynamic, forward-looking, cut we should be making? thrusting industrial areas of the United Kingdom and 1143 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1144

[Mr David Jones] Montgomeryshire. Equally, in my constituency of Clwyd West there is now a strong campaign aimed at requiring we should all take huge pride in it. On the other side of the transmission lines serving the new Clocaenog wind the region of north Wales is the island of Anglesey, farm to be buried underground. Saving the planet should where we see the Wylfa nuclear power station, which not mean at the same time trashing our landscapes and will soon, I hope, be replaced by a new power station, seascapes. I therefore strongly support the proposition Wylfa Newydd. That will be a gigantic project employing that developers of wind farms, which are heavily subsidised, many thousands of people for many years during the should be required to pay the cost of laying transmission construction phase, and many people for decades after cables underground. the station is up and running. It will provide the opportunity I would like to touch on transport in north Wales. for the creation of centres of excellence in skills, education The railways are increasingly important in north Wales, and training and I am tremendously pleased that the and they are being used increasingly heavily, as is the island of Anglesey has welcomed the developers so case across the country. Journey times have improved warmly. tremendously. When I was first elected to his House some Wylfa is only one element of what I believe is a bright 10 years ago, the journey back to London from Colwyn future for north Wales as an energy hub. Out to sea, we Bay on a Sunday took some four and a half hours. As a have the Gwynt y Mor, Rhyl Flats and North Hoyle result of efforts by both the previous Labour Government offshore wind farms, one of the largest groupings of and this Conservative Government, that has been reduced offshore wind farms anywhere in the world. Let me be dramatically—the same journey now takes almost exactly frank: as many hon. Members know, I have never been three hours. The fast train, which I hope to take tonight, a huge fan of wind power. I believe that it is unreliable, takes approximately two and three quarter hours. supplying only intermittent and unpredictable energy, That is all commendable, and it is a tribute to the and it is far too heavily subsidised. Furthermore, onshore work done by Network Rail, but we must look to the wind, and to a certain extent offshore wind, blight—as future. We know that HS2 will be built and that it will my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire put go to Manchester. It is important that north Wales it—the spectacular landscapes, both onshore and offshore, should benefit from it, which is why I believe that the of north Wales. new hub proposed for Crewe should be built and that Nuclear power, by contrast, provides predictable and there should be a fast connection right through to reliable base-load generation, which is precisely what is Holyhead. We must bear it in mind that north Wales is needed. However, nuclear must be seen as part of an energy very much part of the north-western economic region; mix. Wind is currently part of that mix, but I was extremely economically, the region has always looked to the great pleased when the Prime Minister indicated only a few cities of the north-west, Liverpool and Manchester. I weeks ago that subsidies for onshore wind farms will be was therefore delighted when last year the Chancellor phased out under the next Conservative Government. announced funding for the reopening of the Halton A new technology, and one that has been developed curve, which will put Liverpool and the expanding in Wales, is that of tidal lagoons. I remember taking Liverpool John Lennon airport within easy travelling evidence on tidal lagoons several years ago when I was a distance of north Wales. member of the Welsh Affairs Committee. I was immediately In north-east Wales we should seek to maximise the struck by what a tremendous opportunity they represented economic benefit we can derive from the new enterprise for Wales, given its huge tidal ranges. The technology zone at Deeside by encouraging synergy with the new has been slow in coming, but it appears that it will soon enterprise zone at Wirral Waters in Birkenhead. There be here. The company Tidal Lagoon Power has not only is a railway line linking Liverpool and north Wales, but made an application for development consent for a new the difficulty is that passengers have to change at Bidston lagoon in Swansea, but has ambitions to create a chain from an electric train to a diesel one to take them through of lagoons stretching from Lancashire in the north, to Wrexham. I believe that a very good improvement, right around the coast of Wales, to Somerset in the and one that could be achieved at relatively low cost, south. Only a few weeks ago I chaired a meeting in would be to electrify that line, certainly between Bidston Colwyn Bay to discuss proposals for a huge tidal lagoon and Shotton, where a new interchange is proposed. there. It would have a potential generating capacity of That would mean that the two great enterprise zones at 4 GW, which is equivalent to a very large nuclear power Deeside and Wirral Waters would be within easy commuting station. distance of each other. Lagoons have the advantage of being green—they Tourism has always been the mainstay of the north produce no carbon emissions—but they also have what Wales economy, but I believe that more could be done wind power lacks: they are entirely reliable. Nothing on for it. One simple measure that is acquiring support the planet is more reliable than the ebb and flow of the from hon. Members from all parties is to give serious tide. As a result, each tidal lagoon would have the consideration to reducing the rate of value added tax on capacity to generate for 22 of every 24 hours. This is a tourism businesses. That has been tried out in competitor new technology, and a British technology. Moreover, it countries, not least Ireland, and has been found to be could be centred in Wales. I believe that Wales could entirely successful. It has been calculated that the immediate become a leader in what could rapidly become an loss of revenue would be made up within four years. important export industry. The big problem is that, in areas such as north Wales, Obviously there are environmental issues to consider, most tourism businesses are run by small family not least with regard to transmission infrastructure, undertakings that, in order to remain competitive one which is having a catastrophic effect across Wales. My way or the other, try desperately to avoid being registered hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire mentioned for VAT, the consequence of which is that they are the impact that transmission lines would have in deterred from expanding and improving their businesses 1145 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1146 because they cannot have the benefit of input VAT to 2.50 pm set against the cost. Therefore, one measure which should appeal to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor, Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): I and to which I hope he will give serious consideration in congratulate the hon. Members for Ynys Môn (Albert the impending Budget, is to reduce the rate of VAT for Owen) and for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies), who tourism businesses to 5%. were instrumental in bringing this debate to the Floor of the House, and I am grateful to the Backbench Finally, I want to touch on a matter that is worrying Business Committee for granting permission for it. to everybody with a constituency in north Wales, namely Ultimately, however, I believe that it is a great shame, health care. I know that the issue is a hot potato in this as was said by the right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul House and that Government Members are frequently Murphy), that the Government have not ensured there criticised for criticising the Welsh Government’s delivery is always a St David’s day debate in the calendar. That is of health care. The fact is, however, that areas such as especially true this year, given the St David’s day north Wales are almost entirely reliant on the north-west announcement last week, to which I shall turn later. It is of England and the midlands for very specialist medical right and proper that the Government Command Paper care. It has been a concern for many years that north should be debated on the Floor of the House, as it is Wales patients have to wait considerably longer than that Welsh Members should get to debate Welsh matters their English counterparts for elective surgery in English on or as near as possible to St David’s day each year. It hospitals, simply because of the way in which the Welsh is to the Government’s great shame that such debates Assembly Government fund health care. have not been secured. By making this plea, I once more The situation is getting worse. Yesterday in Prime hope that somebody somewhere will listen and we can Minister’s Question Time the hon. Member for Arfon revert to the ordinary processes that used to take place. (Hywel Williams) mentioned his constituent, Mr Irfon I shall talk about the Command Paper, the so-called Williams, who has been obliged to move out of Wales to St David’s day agreement, in greater detail in a moment. Ellesmere Port in order to access drugs that he would Suffice it to say at this stage that the proposals will still have got routinely had he been resident in England. He leave Welsh devolution far behind Scotland and Northern is not by any means a unique example. I have a number Ireland. The announcement on funding public services of constituents who, because they live in Wales, simply still leaves Wales considerably worse off, to the tune of cannot access the medicines they need. They have to go about £1.2 billion per annum, compared with Scotland. through the most byzantine consenting procedures if If I may, I will say a brief word about the discussions they are to have specialist treatment. Frankly, the matter that led up to the Command Paper. It is almost an open is causing huge distress in north Wales. The situation secret that the main obstruction to any meaningful was compounded recently by the decision of the Betsi progress during the discussions was, unfortunately, the Cadwaladr university health board to downgrade maternity London Labour leadership, which it seems to me was care in Glan Clwyd hospital, the reason being that it is often at loggerheads with its Cardiff bay counterpart. finding it difficult to attract staff of the necessary In the end, it is the Westminster wing of the Labour calibre and quality. party that has the final say over its colleagues in Cardiff, I believe that that shows that there are structural a point which the electorate will do well to heed on difficulties with the health care system in Wales under 7May. the Welsh Government. It is suggested that the Welsh Government have been subject to cuts, but the fact is Owen Smith: I pay tribute to the right hon. Gentleman that the Barnett formula protects the health budget in for his long and excellent service in this House. He sat Wales. The simple fact is that the Welsh Government, of alongside me in several of the meetings, so he knows their own volition, decided to cut the health budget, that what he has just said is simply not consonant with and the consequence is that patients in my and other the facts. Given that the Welsh Labour Government north Wales constituencies are suffering. and I, on behalf of the Labour party, have spoken about going further than the current Government on I am rapidly coming to the view that the Welsh the devolution of the Work programme and policing, Government are finding it almost impossible to run a what elements of the programme is he suggesting I have decent health system in Wales. Before I sit down, I plead blocked? with them to look very carefully at the misery being inflicted on a lot of people in north Wales and to turn Mr Llwyd: If the hon. Gentleman wants me to tackle to the Department of Health in Westminster for advice. him on this, I shall do so. I will throw one in straight They should not be too proud to do so. Until they do away. He argued strongly and vehemently against the so, I believe that health care in Wales will only continue devolution of policing. to decline. Owen Smith rose— Several hon. Members rose— Mr Llwyd: Just a moment. The Silk commission very strongly suggested that we should devolve policing. The Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. hon. Gentleman said that there was no call for that in We have plenty of time for this important debate this Wales. afternoon, but if hon. Members take an inordinately long time they will deprive their colleagues of the Owen Smith rose— opportunity to speak. That may be their intention, but to have a degree of fairness I implore hon. Members to Mr Llwyd: Let me finish. If the hon. Gentleman had take about 12 or 13 minutes. That is a long time: if they read the evidence to the Silk commission, he would have have something to say, they can say it in 12 minutes. seen that four of the forces in Wales were in favour of it, 1147 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1148

[Mr Llwyd] announcement. He says that the package is not as advanced or radical as he interprets the Scottish package and only one police and crime commissioner— to be, but does he genuinely believe that the people of Mr Salmon—said that he was not. All the evidence was Wales, given the centre of gravity of Welsh public in favour and the Silk commission strongly suggested it, opinion, want a devolution settlement that is the same but the hon. Gentleman vetoed it. as Scotland’s?

Owen Smith: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman Mr Llwyd: I would argue yes, because we need to get for giving way again to let me put the record straight. I away from this pattern of asymmetrical devolution, hesitate to suggest that he is in any way misinforming which is complicated, time-consuming and ends up in the House, but that is not my recollection of the references to the Supreme Court and so on. I know the conversations we were involved in. My recollection is reserved powers model will assist there. Yes, I do believe that we had misgivings about the immediate devolution that. The major problem—I say this quite sincerely—is of criminal justice, but the fact that I announced a that we are not hitting on a fair funding formula for the fortnight ago at the Welsh Labour conference that we future. The right hon. Gentleman knows that we discussed would devolve aspects of policing to Wales— that issue in Committee and that the Barnett floor is of neighbourhood policing and an all-Wales policing plan— assistance. He also knows, as I have said before, that it is gives the lie to what he has just said. not the be-all and end-all or the ultimate answer to fair funding for Wales. Mr Llwyd: No, it does not. I saw the hon. Gentleman sitting next to the First Minister who, while we discussed The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales policing, put his head in his hands when he understood (Alun Cairns): When talking about a funding settlement, that devolution had been vetoed. We discussed that does the right hon. Gentleman acknowledge that then, and I made a point of referring to what I have just Wales’s current settlement falls within the Holtham said in the hon. Gentleman’s presence. It is all very well recommendation at £116 for every £100 spent in England? for him to throw in a sprat later on—some minuscule His recommendation was a figure between £114 and £117. part of policing—just to salve his conscience and get back on speaking terms with the First Minister, but that Mr Llwyd: My point is that the way the Barnett is not good enough for me, and it is not good enough formula operates in Wales is still unfair in comparison for anybody else in the Chamber. I have made the point. with the amount paid out in Scotland—I am sure my friends in the Scottish National party would hit me over Owen Smith rose— the head if they were here, but I will take advantage of the fact that they are not. It is a difference of £1.2 billion Mr Llwyd: I give way for a final time, because I need per annum, which is a lot of money. I remind Members to get on. that the current process on further powers for Wales began about four years ago. The issue of funding was Owen Smith: For the third time, and for the avoidance then outside its remit, which I believe was a mistake, of doubt, the right hon. Gentleman is not representing whether deliberate or not. Fair funding for Wales has matters accurately in the House. I am clear that, and the gone for the time being, and it continues to be a major leader of the Labour party announced at our party issue that the commission could have settled or conference that, we would be devolving an all-Wales policing commissioned work on for the future. plan, including statutory power over neighbourhood We entered these discussions in good faith and attempted policing and the structures of policing, to the Welsh to be constructive, as the Secretary of State said. I am Government. That is the fact, and he cannot gainsay it. not jumping up and down and screaming about the result—there are good things in the Command Paper, Mr Llwyd: Right. Well, I will not go further on that, which I will refer to in a moment. However, we have but the Secretary of State is in the Chamber and he will missed an opportunity to have all the tools further to no doubt make some comments in due course. He was develop the economy of Wales, and to give the Welsh party to those discussions so perhaps his recollection people further accountability for and control over the will be useful, to see whether he agrees with me or with way they run their lives, and over the way money is the hon. Gentleman. In any event, I will move on. spent for the economic good of Wales. The Command Paper is not an agreement in the full sense. Obviously, we have all been discussing for some Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): I would like to months what should or should not be included in it, and take the opportunity to wish the right hon. Gentleman there is a promise to legislate after the election. The all the best for when he leaves this House and to thank proposals would still leave Welsh devolution far behind him for his service to it. Is not the logic of the position Scotland and Northern Ireland, and despite what the he outlined on Barnett that, since the unfairness exists hon. Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) said, between Wales and Scotland, his recommendation would the announcement of the Barnett floor leaves Wales be to take money from the Scottish settlement and worse off compared with Scotland. We are unable to redistribute it to Wales, rather than take it from the celebrate proposals that amount to a row-back on a English settlement to achieve the same thing? compromise that already existed in the Silk commission. Mr Llwyd: No, it is not. The argument I am making is The Secretary of State for Wales (Stephen Crabb): I that we should look for a fair funding formula that will am grateful for the incredibly constructive and principle-led stand the test of time, so that we do not have to keep way that the right hon. Gentleman engaged in our coming back and forth discussing this issue all the time. discussions in the run-up to the St David’s day I do not want to take money from any other constituent 1149 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1150 part of the UK. It is certainly not my remit to do that, world with its own legislature but without its own and I would not even argue for it. We have missed an judicial system. Putting that right is long overdue. As opportunity to address this issue. the Government and the country wrestle with the question The commission recommended a package of powers, of EVEL—English votes for English laws—it brings which was agreed as a compromise by all four parties in that issue into still higher and more urgent profile. Wales. As I have said, we in Plaid Cymru wanted to see It is a matter of common sense, too. I am returning to more powers devolved, but we agreed on the commission’s practising law, and there is a corpus of Welsh laws recommendations as a compromise package providing already: Welsh criminal law, Welsh family law, Welsh a way forward. As we remember, the Government initially environmental law, constitutional and administrative sought to water down the recommendations through law. The time has come to look at putting together a their publication of the Wales Bill by adding a lockstep judicial system for Wales. I am heartened that barristers to income tax powers and omitting to devolve short-haul of all political opinions and none who practise in air passenger duty. To the credit of my Plaid Cymru Cardiff—there are a couple of hundred of them—have colleagues—and, I would add, of various other Back-Bench come together to form an organisation to campaign on Members of all parties—the Government were forced this issue. I am heartened that they see the need for it. It to change tack and ensure that many of the blocks and could deliver economic benefits to Wales, as much as caveats that limited the powers on offer were ultimately anything else. I do not quite understand why the Silk removed from the Bill. Unfortunately, APD is still commission said the Welsh Government should speak omitted from the Command Paper, despite its appearance with the UK Government in eight years’ time to see in the original package. whether they can do something then. More than two of We warned all along that the powers on offer to those years have already gone, and I would argue that Wales from the Government would probably be superseded the time is now, rather than sitting down over a cup of by the events of the Scottish independence referendum. tea in another six years’ time. We were proved right. As the campaign was hotting up On the Barnett floor—yes, it is a floor and I understand and the Government were falling over themselves to how it works—the Holtham Commission noted in its offer greater powers to Scotland, it immediately became report: apparent that Wales would be left behind. It was, I am “politicians (and voters) may well take the view that maintaining afraid, the Westminster parties that promised devo-max relative funding at current levels is inadequate given Wales’s and home rule in something of a blind panic when they relative needs.” thought they might lose the referendum, yet they have The commission conceded that a floor under Barnett subsequently failed truly to deliver what they promised. would lock in underfunding of £400 million a year, but The people of Scotland will doubtless reflect on that in saw its introduction as a short-term measure only to May—indeed, they already are, if the opinion polls are stop the underfunding getting worse at a time when to be believed. funding was increasing, and therefore convergence was I note with interest what is happening with the an immediate concern. I know things have changed and Government’s plans to create a so-called northern that £400 million is no longer anywhere near a correct powerhouse in England. Significant fiscal powers are figure. It is probably nearer £125 million or £135 million set to be devolved to Manchester—dubbed Devo Manc. at the moment, because of cuts in expenditure and so In that light, the third-rate devolution being offered to on. My point is that a floor does not guarantee that the Wales is more of a “devo manky”, in a stale and worthless underfunding will not increase in future years if the relative sense, rather than a dynamic and lasting solution to the needs of Wales increase. If, for example, the relative hunger for greater powers that exists in Wales. funding needs of Wales increased by 2%, the underfunding We remain sceptical of the need for a referendum on would increase up to £700 million a year and the floor the technical matter of devolving such a small share of would provide no protection. The weak negotiating income tax powers. The principle of fiscal devolution position of the Labour Welsh Government has been has been conceded with the devolution of the minor exacerbated by their lack of ambition in setting out taxes. We maintain that any referendum should be on a clearly their demands for fair funding in Wales. much wider remit of powers or for a much greater share So where does all this leave the people of Wales? I say of income tax. Ideally, the parties will include powers way behind. Wales is a nation—something I have never for devolution in their manifestos and the next Government ceased to believe in all my years in this place, having the will proceed to devolve on that basis. privilege of representing the people of Meirionydd Nant Some of the things included in the Command Paper Conwy and, latterly, Dwyfor Meirionydd. Wales is a are most welcome, particularly control over fracking, nation and it deserves to be treated as an equal. Both I devolving port development, increasing power over energy and my Plaid Cymru colleagues demand adequate funding production and the significant step of implementing a for our country. We should be pushing for greater reserved powers model. There are several other useful powers for Wales to stand on its own two feet, and for aspects, too, so it would be silly of me to suggest that the economy to be developed in a sympathetic, sensible this was not a useful step forward. Overall, however, it and sustainable way, and we are dismayed that this has falls short of the powers that I believe could help us to happened. strengthen our communities in Wales. It goes nowhere As I look back over all the years I have had in this near getting the funding settlement that I have said House, I remember with great pride working towards Wales is owed after decades of disadvantage. securing advances in devolution—first, in the devolution I am dismayed at the fact that policing is not devolved, big bang at the end of the 1990s—and in securing the given what the Silk commission said about it and the advances in powers for the National Assembly since overwhelmingly strong evidence in favour of doing so. then. I spoke at an awards ceremony in Cardiff city hall Furthermore, Wales is, I think, the only country in the a couple of months ago. I opined then, and I continue 1151 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1152

[Mr Llwyd] The collaborative approach that I alluded to has been a feature of the political discourse in the past few weeks. to hold that opinion, that 99.9% of Members of Parliament I congratulate the Secretary of State on the opportunity are hard-working decent people who are here to make a provided by his leaders’ summits. My party has one difference. I am proud to say that over the years I have Welsh leader—Kirsty Williams AM—so I felt like a bit made friends in all political parties. I pay tribute to the of an interloper on those occasions. The many meetings right hon. Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy). He was that we had were very interesting, and I believe they an excellent Secretary of State for Wales and Northern have had a productive outcome. Ireland and a man one could always do business with. It I applaud the attempt to reach a consensus on advancing was a pleasure to do so. Silk II. Speaking as a Liberal Democrat whose leader, I am standing down at the election. I hope Liz the Deputy Prime Minister, had already signed up to Saville-Roberts will be returned as my successor. She is Silk II in its entirety, long before the process began, I of the highest calibre. She will be a hard-working Member believe that the St David’s day document falls short in a of Parliament: a thoroughly decent, honest and hard- number of areas, not least, as we have heard, in policing, working Member to add to the substantial number we justice and youth justice. However, as a member of a have already. I thank the electors of Dwyfor Meirionnydd party that is committed to home rule and did not and Meirionydd Nant Conwy for the honour of envisage this initiative, I still think that it represents an representing them over the past 23 years. I will finish by important step forward. It is a tribute—I have heard saying that if I could wind back the clock, I would do it lots of references to the Conservative Government on all again. the Government Benches this afternoon—to this coalition Government. I think that the Secretary of State would 3.9 pm acknowledge that, because his ministerial colleague and Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): I congratulate my party colleague Baroness Randerson has worked on my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn these matters as well. This has been a collective effort by Davies) and the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert both coalition parties. Owen) on securing this debate. I appreciate the comments It was a great satisfaction to see consensus between that my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire all four parties on the vast majority of Silk II made about Dewi Sant. I was in Llanddewi Brefi on recommendations, although there were areas of Sunday with 200 members of the Ceredigion Women’s disagreement. I suspect that members of two political Institute, and they were very mindful of the importance parties at either end of the M4 may, at some later date of Dewi Sant. I thank the Backbench Business Committee when we write memoirs, acknowledge that there have for allowing us the opportunity for this debate, which is been slight divergences of opinion, but that is perhaps a very important, as the right hon. Members for Torfaen debate for another day. Two parties in the discussions (Paul Murphy) and for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) were consistent on policing and justice: Plaid Cymru, to said. its credit, and my party have consistently said that those I, too, pay tribute to all the Members who will be matters should be devolved. That remains our position. retiring from this House in a few weeks’ time. First, I It is not in the document because consensus was not pay tribute to the hon. Member for Aberavon (Dr Francis), reached, but it will be a feature of my party’s general who is not in his place. When I first came here in 2005 election manifesto. with a slight sense of trepidation, having not exactly Reference has been made to Megan Lloyd George. I expected to be here, it was a privilege, having been too have done a bit of historical research. In 1950, when thrust on to the Welsh Affairs Committee, to serve she was trying to defend, as a Liberal, the great constituency under somebody of such distinction. The inclusive way of Ynys Môn, she was charged with delivering a UK-wide in which he chaired that Committee was much appreciated. party political broadcast. Much to the annoyance of I should say that it is run in very much the same vein by the BBC, she ended it with the phrase “hunan-lywodraeth the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies). i Gymru”. Not many people in the United Kingdom I also thank the right hon. Member for Torfaen. I understood that message, but people in Ynys Môn did, remember retreating to the Tea Room immediately after and she held the seat for a little longer—as a consequence, making my maiden speech, and the kind words he said I like to think. to me there in recollecting one of my predecessors in Ceredigion, the late Geraint Howells. That was appreciated. The drift, or rather the march, towards home rule The right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd remains my party’s objective, and in that sense what we and I share a border, albeit a river—the River Dyfi. His have heard about the floor is welcome. In Cardiff on reputation goes before him in this House, but, on a local Sunday, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury talked of basis, I have enjoyed the occasions when we have worked his hope that Gerry Holtham—a man who is greatly together on behalf of our constituents on both sides of respected by both the United Kingdom Government the border on issues such as tourism, the need to protect and the Government in Cardiff—would undertake some and advance Aberystwyth university—he is an Aber work on the shortfall. That may be the Chief Secretary’s alumnus, like me—and the future of our national health aspiration, but I should be interested to hear from the service, particularly at Bronglais hospital. Going round Secretary of State whether such work can be commissioned, the wards of Bronglais hospital at Christmas, even if it because it is important. Before we can move on to the were appropriate to canvass there would be no point, funding issues, we need to have that respected assessment because a third of the people there are from Barmouth, of how extensive the shortfall is. Towyn and Aberdovey, another third are from Let me now refer to two issues that have been much Montgomeryshire, and some from as far away as Llanidloes. discussed here in recent weeks: the dairy sector and We shall miss both right hon. Gentlemen, and I wish tourism. Both are critically important to my constituency, them well in their retirement. and more widely. The severity of the challenges faced by 1153 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1154 the dairy industry cannot be overstated. I have used the allowances for machinery are a good thing, but we need word “industry”, but we should bear in mind the fact tax allowances for building their infrastructure on the that behind that word are many family farms which are farm as well. I look to the Wales Office to reflect on essential to the vibrancy of the rural economy, and that those things and help us make those points to the the livelihoods of many families are being jeopardised. Treasury. Over-supply in the sector, reduced demand globally, the There are no easy solutions, but I jotted down a few downturn in global commodity prices and, crucially, things we need to look at. We need to look at the powers the constant pressure from supermarkets to produce of the adjudicator. We need to enhance the grocery goods at low prices have led to significant reductions in supply code. We need proactive help on exports. The the prices that farmers are receiving. That is a long-term EU needs to look at the intervention price of 15p and worry. If we lose the enthusiasm of young farmers how low that is. We need to look at labelling. Public wishing to join the industry, we will lose the industry of procurement remains an issue, and HMRC needs to the future. Farmers are going out of business as we look at its expectations of the people it is acting very speak, and the National Farmers Union estimates that irresponsibly against in many cases. in recent weeks £800 million has been wiped off the incomes of UK dairy farmers. That is having a highly I shall deal briefly with tourism and endorse the damaging effect on the local economy, campaign. I chair the all-party group on the tourism and hospitality industry in Wales. Many Members here We are all familiar with the reports produced by the today have come along to the meetings. At the last one, Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, the my right hon. Friend the Member for Clwyd West work of the Agriculture Minister in the Welsh Assembly (Mr Jones) and the hon. Member for Ynys Môn were Government, Rebecca Evans, and the findings of the present and heard the case made for the benefits to our Richardson inquiry. Our own Welsh Affairs Committee tourism sector. Fragile rural economies such as Ceredigion has begun to take evidence, and took evidence from the rely on agriculture and tourism, but more critically the unions last Tuesday. That is important work, but it opportunities for growth really are there. It has been cannot be completed fast enough. estimated that a reduction in VAT to 5%, something all One recommendation that is currently being discussed but four countries in the EU are undertaking, could concerns the role of the Groceries Code Adjudicator, mean another £5.3 million in the Ceredigion economy, which is hugely significant. The adjudicator should be and another 166 jobs directly in the tourism sector. We given jurisdiction all the way down the food chain, and are not talking about low-wage jobs; we are talking should be allowed to give powers to producers to ensure about the potential for good jobs, enhancing the salaries that the balance of power between producer and buyer of people already working in the industry, and the becomes equal again. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend benefits to subsidiary employment as well. the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) and the hon. Member for Ynys Môn, who pressed for the appointment Of course the Treasury concern will always be the of an adjudicator for many years until the end of the initial loss in revenue in the first year were this measure last Parliament. Now, very belatedly—and I say that as to be introduced, but the most recent figures released by a Government Member—we have given the adjudicator the Cut Tourism VAT campaign have said this will the power to fine supermarkets, which is an important generate far more for the Exchequer, and over 10 years step. could generate £3.9 billion. That is without taking into account the greater spending and growth in tourism Kevin Brennan: At the risk of blowing my own trumpet, and the knock-on effect on the wider economy. It would may I point out that I was the Minister in the Department bring the UK into line with competitor destinations in for Business, Innovation and Skills who gave the go-ahead the EU. It would increase the competitiveness of regional for the establishment of the adjudicator at the end of tourism hot spots, generate more investment for regional the last Parliament? businesses and support wider regeneration in the areas we represent. Mr Williams: I stand corrected. I had forgotten that, We have some marvellous attractions in Ceredigion, or, rather, my excellent researcher Chris had not written such as the coastal path going around the coast of it down. I apologise to the hon. Gentleman, and pay Wales and the wonderful stretch of coastline along tribute where it is due. The fact remains that this Cardigan bay from Cardigan to the Dyfi. I was at the Government have now introduced the adjudicator, and National Library of Wales a few weeks ago, and the we now have the capacity to fine supermarkets. That librarian was talking about a proactive attempt he is could not have come too soon, but we need to see the making to make the library not “That wonderful great remit of the adjudicator extended down, for reasons of white building on the hill” but something really inclusive confidence among our farming community. When I to celebrate Welsh history, culture and art. We have a make that point to my farming unions in Ceredigion, new soon-to-be-opened Cardigan castle, which the Secretary they support it as important, but it is also important for of State knows very well—the scene of the first national us to start articulating speedily some very positive direct Eisteddfod. A huge amount of money is going into that measures to support the farming industry. One is to do project. It will be an iconic attraction in west Wales. We with the role of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs. have, and always have had, the ingredients to entice If, as the Prime Minister has mentioned, work can be people to come and spend money. We have the Cambrian undertaken to ensure that farmers can spread their tax mountains, too, and we have the best food in the world. payments over a longer period, that will be incredibly There is so much more we have to offer people, but we helpful to many of our constituents. need to give this jolt; it needs to be a financial jolt, and Farmers want to invest. They want to invest in the the VAT issue needs to be addressed. I believe there are future; they want to develop their parlours, and they certain things that colleagues in the Wales Office could want to invest in the infrastructure on the farm. Tax do, and I hope that they will be increasingly convinced 1155 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1156

[Mr Mark Williams] will continue to play a big role in Welsh public life, and I pay tribute to him for the work that he has done thus by this argument. They will have representatives of the far. Wales Tourism Alliance on the doorstep of Gwydyr The Welsh Affairs Committee was successful in securing House soon to make the case for this change, and I this debate through the Backbench Business Committee sincerely hope that they will be able to help us to put and I pay tribute to it for doing so. However, I am a our case to the Treasury. little disappointed that it has been downgraded from a I am not renowned for my use of or appetite or full-day debate in Government time. Wales deserves enthusiasm for high tech in any guise, but it is worth better, and I hope that we can return to having a full remembering that the internet and the use of websites St David’s day debate in the next Parliament. Wales is are critical to promoting Wales. That is the perception an integral part of the United Kingdom. I have mentioned now. When people book holidays, they want to use the my predecessor, Megan Lloyd George. She and many internet, and I am really pleased that the generic top-level others have fought for Wales in this House and we domain names .wales and .cymru have come into deserve a full day’s debate. widespread use since St David’s day. That is important I shall resist the temptation to talk about the Command for Welsh tourism businesses. Paper. No disrespect to the Secretary of State, but the I celebrate St David’s day, belatedly, today. I hope most important event of the past week was of course that I shall still be here in a year’s time, and I bid a fond Wales’s victory in Paris when we beat the French. My farewell to all those who are knowingly retiring from mind was distracted from the subject of devolution as I the green Benches. concentrated on the important matter of beating the French. Several hon. Members rose— I want to talk about two issues: energy security and production; and food security and production. I raised Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I do those issues the first time I spoke in this Parliament, in not want to impose a time limit, but unfortunately I the Queen’s Speech debate, knowing that they would be shall have to if Members stray over the 12 minutes that I huge ones in the Parliament, not only locally in my have advised. But please, use up to 12 minutes by all area, but nationally and globally. Let me start, however, means. That way, we will fit everyone in. by discussing a cloud that has recently come over Anglesey: the announcement only last week by 2 Sisters Food Group that it intends to make up to 200 to 300 people 3.26 pm redundant. I have written to the Secretary of State and am to have a meeting with him, for which I thank him, Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): It is a pleasure to because these are important jobs. follow the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams), who is a doughty fighter for rural communities in Let me briefly outline the situation. Only two years Wales. On a lighter note, I met his cousin this morning. ago, that company took on additional jobs, when they She works for the hon. Member for Broadland had been displaced from another factory closure. A lot (Mr Simpson), and she has a cousin who works for a of help and support was given, by the Welsh Government, Labour peer down the corridor in the House of Lords. the UK Government and the local authority, working So—a little bit of friendship across the parties there. with agencies, myself and other elected representatives. There was a change from a one-shift system to a two-shift It is a genuine pleasure to have co-sponsored this system, and lots of financial and political support was debate with the hon. Member for Montgomeryshire involved. It is very disappointing that in just two years (Glyn Davies). He rightly talked about the first Welsh the company has decided to announce redundancies. I day debate in the 1940s, whose motion was moved by am working now, in a consultation period, with the my predecessor, Megan Lloyd George. That was the trade unions. I hope we can stem those job losses, first such debate and it was moved by the first woman because the jobs are much needed in the food production MP in Wales. I am proud to follow in her footsteps. industry, which is important in Wales and in the rest of I echo the tributes that have been paid to our colleagues the United Kingdom. I hope we will be able to work to who are retiring at the next election, particularly the minimise any job losses. Furthermore, I hope we will two who have spoken today. The right hon. Member for look forward and have a strategy for the food industry Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) and I have worked in Wales, and I will be working with the Secretary of together on many issues, despite being from different State and the Welsh Government on that. parties, and I pay tribute to him. We have big differences, Let me again touch on the jobs issue. I am not however, and the biggest is probably the fact that I am making a partisan point when I say this, but there is no an Everton supporter and he is a Liverpool supporter. I jobs miracle. As you will know, Mr Deputy Speaker, genuinely wish him well for the future. I know that we before I came into this House I ran a centre for the will see a lot of him in Welsh public affairs, and perhaps unemployed, and I worked closely with the long-term in the Welsh judiciary, in the near future. Perhaps he is unemployed and the young unemployed. I very much keen to get going because he wants to play a massive welcome the fact that they have been given the opportunity role in that regard. to go into the work force. When I was an activist in the I also want to pay special tribute to my right hon. and ’80s and ’90s, unemployment in my area was twice the very good Friend the Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy). national average. It is now below the national average, He was there alongside me following my first election and that is a good thing. But, unfortunately, many of success in 2001. We have been alongside each other ever the jobs are now zero-hours contracts, part time and since I came into this House and I shall miss him greatly lack the permanency that people want. Some temporary when I return, hopefully, in May. I know that he, too, contractors working in my constituency have been on a 1157 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1158 part-time contract for many years. That does not allow need to break them up, either by having not-for-profit them to build up pension pots, and to get the credit organisations or competition within the distribution facilities or mortgages enjoyed by permanent employees. centre. Some 20% to 25% of the bills that we pay go to We need a proper strategy to examine how we can transmission and distribution—much more than the avoid this exploitation of short-term contracts and of cost of green levies. zero-hours contracts, so that we can get the work force Food production is a very important industry. to contribute fully in society—so that they can contribute towards their own pensions, towards taxation and towards Kevin Brennan: On the point about distribution the local community. It is important that an incoming companies, does my hon. Friend think that companies Government look at these issues seriously, and I am such as Western Power Distribution should be interested pleased that my party is looking at the zero-hours in innovations such as the one by a company called Iviti contracts, at increasing the minimum wage and at moving in my constituency, which produces LED light bulbs towards a living wage. Cross-party support is forming that stay on after a power cut? As part of its social on the living wage, in the same way as it is now accepted responsibility, perhaps the distribution company should that we have a minimum wage. I understand the argument look into distributing those light bulbs to vulnerable about taking people out of taxation, but as I asked customers who might face power cuts and hardship. individuals who are on the minimum wage and could have the threshold raised: do they want to be trapped in Albert Owen: My hon. Friend makes an important low wages and not pay tax? The answer is no, they want point. I talk about being pro-nuclear and pro-renewables, to have an increase in their livelihoods and in their but I am also pro-energy efficiency. The more we can wages, so that, as I indicated, they contribute fully to improve efficiency of energy consumption the better. society. I hope that we do that. The model to which he refers is an old proven technology The two areas I want to concentrate predominantly and we should be improving it for the future. on are energy and food production, as my area has a Before I move on from energy, let me just say that I long reputation for both. It is known as the mother of had the privilege of acting as host for my right hon. Wales, because as a farming community we were able to Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint). We feed large parts of Wales centuries ago when neighbouring went to visit not only a number of projects, including a kingdoms were fighting against each other and princes biomass plant on Anglesey, but an energy centre, where of Wales. We have held off the Romans as well. So we we met 17 and 19-year-old engineering apprentices. were able to feed the Welsh nation, and I am proud of When we sat down with them around the table, we saw that. In recent years, we have been pioneering in energy that they wanted exactly the same thing that our generation production. We had the early—and now controversial— wanted, which is job security, and that is what they are onshore wind farms in the ’80s and ’90s. I am in favour getting. I am proud of the skills in that sector. It was the of them going out to sea, because of the sheer scale of decision of the Leader of the Opposition when he was them and because there is a better wind resource there. Energy Secretary to go ahead with some of these projects. We should have wind farms of greater magnitude that I pay tribute to him for that work as we are now seeing produce more energy. the result, which is highly skilled and highly trained I am also very pro-nuclear, because we need the base young people ready to take this country into the future. load and because I believe nuclear to be safe energy On food and farming, I supported many of the things production. I have lived in the county of Anglesey all that the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) my life and my father worked on the construction of the said. We should be lumping together food, farming and first power station. My peers in school—I left at 15—are tourism in one big sector, because they are interlinked. still working at the Wylfa power station. They have The food that we produce locally and nationally could senior roles and have enjoyed continuity of employment be consumed locally and nationally, as well as being all those years. There are very few industries that can exported. The farming industry has been through difficult claim to offer a job for life. Energy and nuclear power is periods, and I do not think that it can survive the one sector that can make such a claim. The right hon. vagaries of the market. There needs to be a proper food Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones) mentioned wind and farming plan at a Welsh Government level, a UK farms and renewables, but I believe that we need a mix level and a European level. We are moving in that of energy. To meet demand at its peak and then to come direction. It is important that dairy farmers have a down off that peak, we need to be able to switch dairy plan. Those of us who know about the dairy something off. It is very difficult and expensive to industry—the first job I ever had was as a farm boy switch off a nuclear power station or a gas power milking cows in a parlour—understand that it is not station, but easier to switch off some of the renewables, possible to switch on and off from dairy farming and it albeit with the tidal arrays that I hope we get in the is hard to diversify. People have to invest for a long time future. Wind farms, too, are easy to deal with in that in the calves and heifers that go through to the milking regard. We need to be able to switch off capacity at stage. Support is what those dairy farmers need. I am times, which is why we need a balance of power. working with colleagues across the House to ensure that I have been a member of the Energy and Climate there is a viable future for dairy farming in Wales. I am Change Committee, and we have had some very interesting talking about the smaller farms as well as the larger debates in this Parliament. We have shed light on some farms across the United Kingdom. of the downfalls in the energy market, which will, I On the tourism link, it is important that we have think, improve things. top-class assets and facilities in our area which people One area on which I wish to focus is the distribution can come and visit, and that they have food and farming and transmission of electricity. Companies, including produce that has been procured and sourced locally. We National Grid, have monopolies in the regions, and we can do the brand Anglesey and the brand Wales. 1159 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1160

[Albert Owen] Government, BT and the European Union, which have funded it. That has enabled my area to be the first rural I finish off by saying that I am very proud of having area to have the roll-out, along with Blaenau Gwent. an Anglesey day to showcase the county of Anglesey There is a structure; it might not be reaching parts of here in the House of Commons. It is our duty to show Monmouth at the moment, but it is reaching parts of the best of what we have, and Wales has a lot to offer Anglesey. the rest of the United Kingdom and the rest of Europe. That is why we need an all-day Welsh debate, so that we David T. C. Davies: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman’s can stand up, champion and bang the drum for Anglesey relationship with BT is better than mine. I do not know, and Wales. but there are certainly parts of Wales that broadband is not reaching and Monmouthshire is among them. 3.40 pm David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): I, too, thank Alun Cairns: I remind my hon. Friend and the hon. hon. Members for securing the debate. It might not be Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) that the scheme obligatory, but I hope that we are setting a precedent of the hon. Gentleman talks about includes significant having a St David’s day debate that will be repeated taxpayers’ money from the UK Government, as well—that annually. is, £70 million. A higher level of funding comes from Let me also pay tribute to the right hon. Members for the UK Government through the UK taxpayer than Torfaen (Paul Murphy) and for Dwyfor Meirionnydd from the Welsh Government in that process. (Mr Llwyd). Although I have disagreed with them on many occasions about many things, as the right hon. David T. C. Davies: There we have it. There is money Member for Torfaen says, we can also agree on many aplenty going in to it from the Welsh Assembly, the things. Both said much that I could agree with in their British taxpayers and the European Union, but it is still speeches. It has been a pleasure to have served in this not getting to Monmouthshire. Perhaps we should return House with them both and on a personal level many of to that point. I appreciate the co-operation between us will miss them greatly. I wish them well. members of the Committee. People outside the Committee It has also been a pleasure to serve as Chair of the could perhaps take a lesson on it. I do not want to be Select Committee on Welsh Affairs. I was counting it up too critical of anyone on this Thursday afternoon, but and I have served on seven Select Committees, or their it was interesting that we found in one of our inquiries equivalents, both here and in the Welsh Assembly. The that there was not quite the co-operation between Welsh Affairs Committee is rather lucky, because it can International Business Wales and UK Trade & Investment have an examination or inquiry into anything. Anything that one would like. When the First Minister, or indeed that affects Wales can be considered by the Committee my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Wales, and everything affects Wales, so we have pretty well goes off to sell Wales, they should go as part of a joint considered everything that one could imagine. trade mission so that we can show investors from the far The one thing on which we have always been able to east or elsewhere that the Welsh Assembly and the agree is the topicality of those inquiries. We have looked national Government are speaking with one voice on into agriculture, broadband, industry and tourism and, the importance of inward investment. Whether politicans by and large, we have been able to make recommendations are Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrat, Plaid Cymru that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and my or from some other party, in the Assembly or Parliament, hon. Friend the Minister, to whom I also pay tribute, as we all agree on the importance of getting investment well as their predecessors, have taken seriously. I want into Wales. to mention one or two and to inject a few personal thoughts, as well. The Secretary of State for Wales (Stephen Crabb): For example, we have considered broadband, which The Chairman of the Select Committee is making an has been a particular issue in many areas and for many important point about inward investment. It is worth people in Monmouthshire. Without going into great putting it on the record that last year saw the highest detail about what is in the report, I want British Telecom level of inward investment in Wales for almost 25 years. to come out and say which areas will get broadband in The crucial point, which I think is what he is implying, the short term and which will not. We know that many is that almost all the inward investment projects were areas will, frankly, never be reached by high broadband secured with the backing and support of UKTI. So speeds and it is important that people in those areas collaboration between the Welsh Government and UKTI know that they are there. That will allow them to go off is vital. and make use of other technologies such as satellites. The trouble I see at the moment is that far too often BT David T. C. Davies: I accept that. I am trying not to effectively tells people to hang on a couple of months, be too critical of members of other parties. I simply or another year or so, and they will be connected up to make the point that co-operation is important not only fibre, but it never quite seems to happen. We need more in business but in tourism. I was surprised to learn that openness and transparency on that issue. VisitBritain and Visit Wales do not have that many We considered the importance of a proper funding discussions with each other. I believe that the Welsh settlement for S4C. I am glad that that seems to be tourism Minister has not met senior people in VisitBritain working out and that there seems to be consensus. and vice versa. That is disappointing, frankly, because they all have an interest in making sure that when Albert Owen: The hon. Gentleman mentions the work tourists come to London they are told that the Principality that his Committee has done, but on broadband there is of Wales is only two hours away by train and are a plan in Wales, which is run jointly between the Welsh encouraged to come and have a look at it. 1161 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1162

One of the most topical issues that the Committee whatever. They are opposed to any kind of development has looked at and that I suspect whoever chairs the whatsoever, anywhere. Whether it is houses, roads or Committee after the election will want to have another anything at all, there are people out there who simply look at is the Severn bridge. The money to be returned do not like development. I find myself, unusually and to Severn River Crossing will have been paid by 2017. perhaps for the first time ever, on the same side as the At that point the Government, whoever they are, will Welsh Assembly’s Minister for Economy, Science and have to make a decision on whether to carry on using Transport. That is probably a shock to us both. SRC or some other private company to collect the tolls Two other issues have been mentioned today which or to bring the bridge back into public ownership. the Committee will clearly want to look at—energy and where we are heading with devolution. On devolution, Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Nationalise it. with the utmost respect, I beg to differ from my hon. Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies). David T. C. Davies: I am not normally known as a I am very concerned about what has been happening supporter of nationalisation, but if the bridge is run by over the past 15 or 16 years. Every couple of years the a public body—the Government or the Welsh Assembly— Welsh Assembly asks for extra powers, and some sort of the VAT of 20% will no longer be payable. That would committee is set up or somebody is sent off on a be a 20% cut in the tolls overnight. On that basis, I think roadshow somewhere to hold meetings in village halls that I am willing to set aside decades of Conservative at which only a few people turn up, then they come thought and call for the nationalisation of the Severn back and write a long report recommending that all bridge. It would be of enormous benefit to everyone who sorts of extra powers be given to the Welsh Assembly. uses it, including many of my constituents. Furthermore, Not surprisingly, whoever is in government thinks, “Let’s my Committee looked at the current level of the tolls keep them quiet and give them the extra powers.” On and we calculated—it was a little bit of a back-of-an- and on it goes, and no thought has been given to where envelope calculation, but no one has yet contradicted this is going to end. it—that the tolls could be set at about one third of the Scotland always seems to be a few jumps ahead and current levels, and that that would be enough to maintain has now, in effect, got home rule. Northern Ireland has the bridge. No one has ever denied that, and I would be another set of powers and a structure which is rather interested to see if anyone can. difficult to understand, but which is obviously shaped Clearly, it is expensive to maintain the bridge. I have to try and keep the peace over there. All these bodies been down there and been shown by the engineers how look around at what the others have got, and they will it moves around the whole time. Both bridges are always find something that one lot has which they do extraordinary structures based at the estuary with the not have, and they will say, “It’s not fair. We are being second highest tide in the world. I do not realistically treated unfairly. Why have the Scots got this and we believe that we will ever get rid of the tolls completely, haven’t?” Nobody is looking at what has happened—or but it would be utterly wrong for the Treasury to use the rather, what has not happened—in England. tolls as some kind of milch cow. The people of Wales I share the instinctive Unionism of the right hon. and south-west England deserve better than that. The Member for Torfaen, but I see the solution as lying in tolls should be drastically cut on top of the cut that some kind of federal settlement, English Parliament or should come about as a result of the removal of VAT. English votes on English laws, because a failure to I have discussed this with the Department for Transport, address this problem now will mean ever more powers which said, “But we had to spend extra money on the leeching away to Scotland and Wales. Probably in the old bridge.” That is true, and it has given me the figures next 15 or 20 years, but maybe even sooner, there will be for that. But it is also true that other changes to taxes—VAT, another referendum in Scotland. I would not be at all which I have mentioned, and the industrial buildings surprised if in my lifetime the Scots vote for independence. tax—meant that the Treasury got something of a windfall Wales will be constantly looking at it, and people will as well, albeit one that it was not expecting. That say, “They’ve got it. They can do it. Why can’t we have windfall, I believe, exceeds the amount of money that it? Why can’t we do it as well?” was spent on the old bridge. So it is time for a fairer deal I genuinely fear that in my lifetime Wales could for Wales on this issue. I invite my right hon. Friend the become an independent nation. There may be some Secretary of State and my hon. Friend the Minister—I who want to see that happen. I personally do not, and very much hope they are in their jobs after the election—to the only way that I think we could stop that is to lock think about some sort of plan for what we will do everything into place, possibly through some kind of post-2017, when the issue will have to be faced by us. federal solution, perhaps with a federal parliament Members of the Committee, whoever they may be overseeing defence, taxation and foreign affairs, but after the election, may want to look also at the proposed making certain that nobody can go beyond the line. new M4 relief road. I appreciate that transport affects There is no line in the sand at present and we have to all of Wales, and north Wales transport links are just as draw one, even if that means giving a few extra powers important. Obviously, I know a little bit more about to the Welsh Assembly. If at some point we can say, this one, which has greater relevance to my constituency, “There you are. That is it. You can’t have any more but it is an all-Wales issue, because the Welsh Assembly because nobody else would be able to have anything is planning to use its new borrowing powers to pay for more either”, we might be able to lock things up and that route. There is a great big argument going on now ensure that there is no further move towards complete about whether it should do that. I put my cards on the independence for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. table: I am not particularly sympathetic to the environmental I was interested to hear the right hon. Member for arguments being put forward, because many of the people Torfaen say that he had researched what is done in putting forward those arguments would put them forward other nations around the world. I think that we need to 1163 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1164

[David T. C. Davies] has delivered in Wales, and I believe that will eventually lead to strong government, if not independence. We are look at other nations that have a tradition of British in a situation in which the forces are moving beyond our law, such as Canada or perhaps South Africa, and those control. It will not be little agreements that do it; it will that do not. I do not think that any country has ever be the force of what happens in Scotland at the general embarked on a process of giving away powers in such election. Consider the extraordinary change in Ireland an ad hoc fashion. We need to start thinking very when the Queen turned up in a green frock and went to carefully and seriously about how we can all agree on a Croke park to bow her head in penitence at the site of way to prevent devolution leading to fragmentation and an atrocity there. That had a profound effect on Irish the break-up of the Union. thinking. Of course, 200 years of antagonism did not Finally, I want to talk about energy, which the Welsh disappear, but it certainly had a great effect. I believe we Affairs Committee takes very seriously. We have looked will see a pattern based on the federation of five nations— at issues such as shale gas, but I think that we should not within 10 years, but possibly in 20 to 25 years—and also look at nuclear and renewables. The shadow Secretary we will have an asymmetric form of devolution that will of State has decried my so-called flat-earth speech. I am be appropriate for each one. sceptical about a lot of what is said about global I am proud of what is happening in my own city. We warming, but I think that many of us agree that taxing have gone through a few rough years, but there is room carbon and increasing energy prices in a way that hits for great optimism. Our problems are temporary and manufacturing industries in Wales, including some very we can deal with them, but our great treasures and notable ones, might lead them to consider closing down strengths are permanent and will remain, including the and taking their business elsewhere, which is something mixed character of the people, which is made up of none of us wants to see. We therefore need to think very many nations and has a special vigour and enthusiasm carefully about any energy policy that will make it and a robust personality. We also have great institutions, harder for our manufacturing industries. including the Celtic Manor. Even though the Prime I have very much enjoyed carrying out my role as Minister cannot see the difference between Newport Chair of the Welsh Affairs Committee and working and Newport far west, which is sometimes called with hon. Members, on both side of the House. I Cardiff—he mixed them up yesterday—we have a wonderful thoroughly agree with the sentiment expressed here that hinterland, including the glorious Roman treasures in we need to continue having a Secretary of State dedicated Caerleon, which represent great strength and beauty in to Wales and—dare I say it?—a robust Select Committee the city. The future is bright. that ensures that whoever has that post is doing a good We have a chance to celebrate our Cymreictod. What job. a change there has been! In 1962, Saunders Lewis, in his great lecture, “Tynged yr Iaith”, talked about a time 3.56 pm in this century when no one would speak Welsh, and Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): The message I Islwyn Ffowc Elis’s book, “Wythnos yng Nghymru Fydd”, have heard is one of optimism. I might have to disappoint was similarly about the death of the Welsh language. the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies), But it has not died—it is in vigorous form. A couple of whom I thought was about to apply to be the Labour months ago I had the great joy of visiting Ysgol Gwynllyw candidate in his constituency, because we already have a and talking with the fluent sixth-formers about all the splendid candidate there. I welcome his epiphany in political problems of our day in great detail. It is calling for nationalisation. I am sure that he will be possible to go to any school in Newport and have a calling for the nationalisation of the top 50 companies conversation with pupils in simple Welsh at the very next, on his continuing journey to the far left, which I least. That is a great triumph. The first school that have watched for some time, having known him since he taught through the medium of Welsh in Newport had was a schoolboy. 12 pupils in 1970 and they are now 50 years old, and we will see very soon the opening of a secondary school in There is so much that is great going on. One of the Newport. joys of having been born when I was is rejoicing in the Welsh history that I have lived through. I remember the depressing history of the campaign for hunan- David T. C. Davies: I think that school was Clytha lywodraeth i Gymru through organisations such as primary, which I attended. At that time, the problem Undeb Cymru Fydd and how it collapsed on 16 January was that there was a separate Welsh unit and not much 1896 at a meeting in Newport of the two federations of interaction between the two, but I think that has also the Liberal party, which of course was almighty at that changed for the better and is supported by Members on time. Lloyd George was not allowed to speak, because both sides of the House. they were terrified of his persuasive oratory. A Liberal Member for Merthyr stuffed the meeting with people Paul Flynn: Yes, it was St John’s, the old school on the opposed to independence for Wales. We could well have other side of the river, which became part of Clytha gone down a very different path. The result was that primary. Lloyd George lost enthusiasm and went to campaign The school was set up in the teeth of all kinds of very against the Boer war. powerful opposition, but some of those first pupils who The story of Wales throughout the 18th, 19th and are now 50 years old are now teachers of Welsh themselves 20th centuries was one of people going to Westminster, in other schools. We are seeing the great triumph of the having made all kinds of promises about how they Welsh language and the great strength that it has now. would serve Wales, only to disappoint after being seduced That is very moving and we should celebrate it. Whenever by this place. It is a matter of great pride that I have people ask, “What’s special about the Welsh language?”, been in this building when we delivered. My generation I point to its beauty. On Radio 4 last Saturday, somebody 1165 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1166 who teaches it in Brighton talked about the cadence of mostly took the form of compensation. To give hon. the language. Listen to the magic of the words, the soft, Members some idea of the compensation, the price of a seductive words: cat was a penny before its eyes opened, tuppence after “Nant y Mynydd groyw loyw, Yn ymdroelli tua’r pant, Rhwng its eyes opened and 4p after it had caught a mouse. A y brwyn yn sisial ganu; O na bawn i fel y nant!” husband who was unfaithful to his wife had to pay The language is also muscular: 5 shillings, and if he did it a second time he had to pay “Argoed, Argoed y mannau dirgel, Ble’r oedd dy fryniau, dy £1, or the equivalent of losing 20 cats—that would hafanu dyfnion, Dy drofau tywyll, dy drefi tawel?” dampen the ardour of any would-be adulterer. Women had better rights than had existed in many Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I think we countries for 1,000 years. England had 220 laws involving may have to help the Hansard reporters at this rate. We capital punishment in the 18th century, including for need to try to ensure that they are not struggling too chopping down a tree or raiding a rabbit warren, but in much. 10th-century Wales hardly anything resulted in capital punishment. Regarding itinerants, there was an Paul Flynn: Among the improvements we have seen is extraordinary law that if somebody who was poor and that there are now Hansard reporters who are proficient starving was refused food at three villages, they were in Welsh. We do not have problems now. entitled to steal without punishment—eat your heart I want to talk about the neglect of our history. As a out, Shelter and Crisis—which was an admission that member of the Political and Constitutional Reform the problems of the poor were not necessarily their Committee, I am bored stiff with Magna Carta. It was fault. significant because it gave some kind of democracy to We know that Cyfraith Hywel Dda was arranged in about 25 barons and their families and took a bit of Hen Dy Gwyn ar Daf, but unfortunately we do not power away from the King, but to compare it to cyfraith know when. It was a serious venture, because they Hywel Dda is nonsense. After Magna Carta, the English stocked up with six weeks-worth of bread beforehand. were living in the dark ages compared with 10th-century As we are now celebrating the laws of Magna Carta—a Wales under cyfraith Hywel Dda. significant event, but minor in terms of women’s rights Mr Llwyd: The hon. Gentleman is making a very and the progress of society—we need to give a lot of powerful and interesting case, but Magna Carta did in thought to the triumph of Cyfraith Hywel Dda. fact acknowledge that the Welsh laws of the time should stay as a distinct body of law because they were preferable. 4.9 pm There are a few lines in Magna Carta about that. Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab): The Parc Paul Flynn: Before I return to that, I want, in relation Slip Margam open cast coal site spreads across the to Welsh education, to say a word of thanks and tribute Bridgend, Ogmore and Aberavon constituencies. The to Wyn Roberts. If anyone was responsible for the majority of the site lies within Neath Port Talbot council education in a second language in Wales it was him. I area, which tends to take the lead in negotiations with a remember him saying in the corridor outside the Chamber, company called Celtic Energy. That company exploited “Rhaid i ni fod yn gadarn! Rhaid i ni wneud safiad!” He the site for many years, but the major settlement affected was absolutely right. It was very courageous of him, as by the open cast site is in the Bridgend county borough a Conservative, to have Welsh taught in the constituency area, and the largest community is in my constituency of the hon. Member for Monmouth and various other of Bridgend. parts of Wales, but it now exists and will continue to do The mine is a mile and a half scar on the valley floor so as a treasure for all the children of Wales, and we can running from Cefn Cribwr to Cynffig hill, and it includes hear it on their lips. If we go back to the time of the a huge deep void that is filling with water. The site is a Romans in Caerleon, they spoke two languages: intra blight on the environment, and it poses a risk to local muros, they spoke Latin; and ultra muros, they spoke in children who unfortunately use it for motor cycle Welsh. We do not hear a lot of children speaking Latin scrambling, or swim in the fetid water in the void. Local these days, but Welsh is still on the lips of children, residents live in fear of water cascading into their which shows something about the vigour and endurance homes and polluting local rivers. The site urgently of the language. needs restoration, and for local people the questions are Cyfraith Hywel Dda was arranged not by a gang of simple: who has responsibility for restoration? How can barons, but by people from each cwmwd or tiny area. they be made to accept that responsibility? Where will Seven people were brought together to pool their wisdom, the almost £60 million needed for the work come from? and what they did was extraordinary. We could have If any budding script writers out there want a plot with discussed this during the earlier debate on women’s twists and turns, a tale of Government failure, of political rights. failure at national and local level, or of financial greed, No country in the whole of Europe was anywhere dodgy practices and legal failure, this is the story for near as advanced as Wales on women’s rights. There them. If Erin Brockovich has nothing to do, I invite her were rights, which were very rare, for divorce. If the to come to south Wales and try her hand at Parc Slip. marriage had gone on for seven years, the wife was Coaling at Parc Slip goes back to before 1985 and the entitled to half the property: she had the sheep, and the British Coal Corporation. Between 1985 and 1994 husband had the pigs. She also had other rights. If the applications to extend the open cast were made, refused husband was unfaithful, he had to pay. Punishments and overturned at public inquiry, with permission always throughout Europe at the time involved chopping off bringing with it responsibilities to restore the site. The various bits of people—heads and arms, and everything Coal Authority Act 1994 privatised the coal industry, else—but Wales was very advanced in that punishments and a company that later became Celtic Energy bought 1167 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1168

[Mrs Madeleine Moon] is that sound accountancy practice? Can there be millions of pounds in accounts that are liabilities on a balance the freehold for a number of sites in south Wales, sheet but do not represent assets in any form—cash or including Parc Slip. In his ruling in Cardiff on 18 February, otherwise? Or is the money there and capable of being Mr Justice Hickinbottom stated that all those arrangements pursued to provide the restoration at Parc Slip? required Celtic to restore the land to countryside and I have made a number of references to Mr Justice agricultural use once mining was complete. Hickinbottom’s judgment in a case brought by the Mr Will Watson, chief executive officer of Celtic Serious Fraud Office against the people who benefited Energy, and until March 2010 the corporate director of financially from this asset transfer scheme: three solicitors environmental services at Neath Port Talbot council, at company called M&A—Eric Evans, David Alan claimed in an e-mail to me: Whiteley and Francis Bodman; Stephen Davies, QC; “The situation has been exacerbated…by the decision in 1994 Richard Walters, the managing director of Celtic; and made by the Government of the day to take a larger cash receipt Leighton Humphries, the financial director of Celtic. for the sale of the company in return for a 10-year bond free The SFO claimed that the responsibilities for restoration period. Had escrow funds been put away for example at today’s had not been transferred to Oak. However, half way level of around £10 million per year for the years 1994 to 2004, through the case, the argument was changed to say that then the fund would now stand at around £155 million (assuming the responsibilities had in fact been transferred and that it was invested to simply cover inflation)…Since the UK Government the problem was that the local authority would not be had the £100 million in 1994 (worth around £178 million with inflation today) it seems reasonable to me to ask the UK Government able to secure restoration from Oak, which had zero to contribute to a solution at Margam.” assets. Mr Justice Hickinbottom decided that this later change was not illegal. The first was never pressed or There needs to be a clear answer to this from the explored, and in his ruling the judge quoted one of the Government. Mr Justice Hickinbottom said that defendants who had called the asset transfer “just good responsibility lies with Celtic, but Celtic claims that it business”. lies with the Government. Which is it? My constituents need to know. Does Her Majesty’s Treasury have any The case against Celtic and its legal henchmen has responsibility at all for the restoration of part of this not been tried. The SFO case collapsed because of the site because of the nature of the sale in 1994? Yes or no? legal judgment by Mr Justice Hickinbottom that We need an answer. “a dishonest agreement is not actionable as a crime at common law unless a proprietary right or interest of the victim is actually When mining at Parc Slip finished in 2008, further or potentially injured.” planning permission to continue mining was denied and The victims were deemed to be the Minerals Planning it was time for Celtic to fulfil obligations to restore Parc Authority and the Coal Authority, which he felt had no Slip. Mr Justice Hickinbottom describes how, around such proprietary rights or interests. Adding insult to this time, some of Celtic Energy’s directors and executives injury, the lawyers and Celtic are to have their legal fees came up with a plan called “the big picture”. They arranged paid by the Government. To say that the taxpayer has the creation of a series of companies and parent companies been completely ripped off by this company is an in the British Virgin Islands. The ultimate owners and understatement. financial beneficiaries of those companies were the men The legislation privatising coal failed to protect the themselves, and it was arranged to sell to one of them—Oak taxpayers of Cynffig Hill; the Coal Authority and the Regeneration—the land and the attached responsibilities planning laws failed to protect them; and the best legal for restoration. minds at the SFO failed to protect them. Where are they After the sale, many of the provisions for restoration to go now? The mineral planning officers appear to that Celtic Energy had held in its accounts—around have five options. The first is to do nothing, which is £135 million—were released by the auditors. The six totally unacceptable. The second is enforcement, but members involved in planning the transaction were they have been told by Celtic that if they do that, there then awarded large bonuses. The sale to Oak must have will be further legal difficulties. Celtic would put itself seemed strange to the auditors and non-executive members into receivership and disappear. The third is exploration of Celtic Energy’s board. The group, however, had paid of alternative restoration with coal extraction, which is a fee of £10,000 for legal advice from Stephen Davies, totally unacceptable to the people of Bridgend. Then QC, who advised that it would not be a successful way there is exploration of alternative restoration with no of transferring the restoration responsibilities to another coal extraction, and finally there has been a suggestion company. A further fee of £250,000 for further advice of using an existing £5.7 million escrow account to do a from Mr Davies resulted in advice that the sale would in restoration lite. This is a desperate situation. fact be a successful way of transferring restoration I secured a debate on this on 29 January when the responsibilities. Mr Davies’s statement was used to show Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Celtic’s auditors that the provisional restoration funds Change, who is also the Minister for Business and could be released, which they were. The fund was reduced Enterprise, the right hon. Member for West Suffolk to £67 million, and Celtic now claims that the money (Matthew Hancock), assured me that he would meet me did not really exist. Mr Watson claims that the figures to discuss the issue. I had hoped we would be able to are “provisional” for liabilities on the balance sheet and debate where the discussions had taken us. The clock is do not represent any assets in any form—cash or otherwise. ticking. We have three weeks until Dissolution and my During the course of the Serious Fraud Office meeting has not taken place. investigation, it was not clear whether the transactions In his ruling, Mr Justice Hickinbottom said: had been effective in transferring liabilities, and so the “conduct that some may regard as morally reprehensible is not accounts were amended to put back the provisions until open to be set aside, let alone be the possible subject of criminal the matter was resolved. The company will revisit the sanctions, because Parliament has determined that those sanctions position once more. My constituents need to know this: should not apply in those circumstances”. 1169 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1170

Parliament has the legislative competence and moral minimum wage jobs that do not bring home enough responsibility to deal with this mess. I hope that today money to provide for their families. However, the ONS we can agree that one of the first priorities of whoever last week was very clear that the 1.8 million figure refers sits on the Government Benches in May will be to work to the number of contracts in the British economy, not with the Welsh Assembly Government, the Minerals the number of individuals on zero-hours contracts. We Planning Authority, the Coal Authority, Natural Resources have to be very careful. The actual, correct figure—I Wales and any other relevant statutory body to send a should have come back to the shadow Secretary of clear message to Celtic that it must face its responsibilities State yesterday on this—for the number of people in and that we will pursue it. Even if legislative reform is Wales on zero-hours contracts is 35,000. That represents needed, it must face its responsibilities. less than 3% of all employees. Communities should expect, as victims of incompetence and chicanery, to have the full support of this House to Jessica Morden: But 35,000, even if it is that figure, resolve this situation. I urge the Minister to give a sense still represents a huge number of workers in insecure of hope that we will unite to tackle the problem by work who cannot plan for the future because they do calling a meeting of Government, the Welsh Assembly, not know what their weekly income will be. local authorities and others to begin to thrash out a way There is now an extra bill for topping up pay with forward, and to make a commitment that we will work things such as tax credits because so many of the new together to seek a resolution to this appalling situation. jobs in the economy are so low paid. We can debate the figures, but we also need to think about the issues that 4.21 pm people bring to me week after week. It is only fair in such debates that I give a voice to some of the people I Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): Like my hon. have seen recently. Last week, a man contacted me Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), I about a jobs issue facing members of his family. A want to talk about jobs. In part, I want to do so because Newport company had changed its cleaning contract, yesterday at Wales questions the Secretary of State said presumably to save money, and the new contractors that Opposition Members were told the staff that they would have to work for six weeks “peddling a gross caricature of the Welsh economy”—[Official before they were paid, and then they would be paid only Report, 4 March 2015; Vol. 593, c. 928.] for four weeks. That is how they were to keep their when we talked about the rise in low-paid insecure work just-above-minimum-wage jobs that they had had for in Wales. I say gently to the Secretary of State that he 10 years. talks about a recovery bearing fruit, but not for the I met a graduate who works for a sports shop on a many of my constituents who come to see me week on zero-hours contract and who had lots of hours before week with their experiences of what it is like trying to Christmas but is now being offered one or two shifts a find work out there. It is harder now to find a job with week if she is lucky. She is a graduate who wants a decent pay, predictable hours and security than it was long-term career, but she is having to hang on to that before the financial crash. job because that is all there is. A constituent who is in We must of course all welcome unemployment coming the same boat is working in the care industry on a down. I certainly do. We all want to see more people in zero-hours contract. She is struggling to get any kind of work. However, we should not repeatedly ignore what is mortgage because her weekly take-home pay is so insecure. certainly the reality for many workers in Wales. We A construction worker’s pay is being reduced because should not kid ourselves that everything is fine. The he is being paid through an umbrella company that is number of people in temporary employment in Wales owned by the contractor he is working for, which then since 2008 is up by 28%. The number of full-time jobs is deducts unnecessary fees from his take-home pay. I am down according to some estimates by about 51,000. glad that that practice has been outlawed by the Welsh There are 100,000 minimum wage jobs in Wales and Government, particularly for the work on the heads of 260,000 people earning less than the living wage. That is the valleys road, but it should be outlawed more widely, about a quarter of the work force, which is much higher and I hope it is. than the UK average. I recently spoke to a group who volunteer to work in As we heard earlier, the Office for National Statistics food banks across south Wales. They said that the rise estimated last week that about 1.8 million people were in the number of people going to food banks is due working zero-hours contract jobs, a statistic that could to welfare changes, but also that they are seeing more equate to about 90,000 workers in Wales on zero-hours people who are in low-paid work. One of the volunteers contracts. These are often jobs without holiday pay, sick asked me, quite reasonably, “Why won’t Government pay and pension rights. It is not always bad to be on a Ministers come and talk to us on the front line so zero-hours contract—for example, there are students that they can see the reasons why people are coming to who hope that it will tide them over—but for many use food banks and act on it?” I told her about the others, as my hon. Friend said, it is about financial inquiry by the all-party group on hunger and food security and the ability to plan for the future. Many of poverty, led by the Bishop of Truro. It has produced an these jobs pay on average about £300 less a week than extremely comprehensive and readable report called other jobs. Figures last week from the Office for Budget “Feeding Britain” that has come up with some very Responsibility show that the taxpayer has been hit with sensible recommendations. The report said that, yes, a bill of about £90 million for top-ups such as tax welfare changes, sanctions and the bedroom tax are all credits, because many of the new jobs are so low paid. factors in the rise of food banks, but it is also due to the fact that a quarter of people using them are in low-paid Stephen Crabb: The hon. Lady is of course absolutely work. I had to say to her that groups like this have been right to describe the insecurity people feel when they are doing this work, and they have gathered the evidence, doing jobs that do not give them enough hours, or but the Government are choosing not to hear it. 1171 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1172

[Jessica Morden] speech which is so dear to me and which we have heard so many times in this place. My hon. Friend the Member We need decent work and decent pay. That was recently for Newport East (Jessica Morden) spoke eloquently the subject of a Wales TUC campaign. I hope that a and passionately about the realities of the world of work future Labour Government will pledge to take action in Wales, and my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend on the minimum wage, encourage more people to pay (Mrs Moon) spoke about the problems of heavy industry the living wage, tackle zero-hours contracts, and begin and remediation of the open-cast works in her constituency to put some of this right. and others in south Wales. I hope that when we, as a I know that it is nearly time for the main act, but I Labour Government, succeed the present Government, want to talk about one more thing that I hope we get we will pursue that issue with great vigour. right in future. It was mentioned by the hon. Member Let me also pay tribute to the Members who are for Monmouth (David T. C. Davies) and is probably retiring from the House. The right hon. Member for one of the few things on which I agree with him. It is the Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) is always—well, perhaps thorny issue of the Severn tolls, which are, as we repeatedly a little less so today—a courteous and wholly accurate say, the highest tolls in the UK. That is felt most keenly contributor. [HON.MEMBERS: “Oh!”] I shall explain what in constituencies such as mine, by commuters, by businesses I meant by that later. In fact, the right hon. Gentleman and by hauliers. The concession has not served us well, is always courteous in contributing to the life of the and we hope that it will end in 2018. Every time we ask House. He will be missed when he retires from this when it will end, the period extends and extends again. place, but I am sure that he will continue to serve Wales That indicates how difficult the issue has been. It is now extremely well, and I count him as a friend despite our time for us to start to make sensible decisions about slight contretemps today. tolling levels in future. We all want the tolls to come The speech made today by my right hon. Friend the down, and I think we should consider creative options Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy) was heard with the such as off-peak travel for hauliers and concessions for usual deference and respect, owing to the experience people who live locally. The Welsh Affairs Committee and sagacity that he has brought to his role. He has has done some excellent work which I think could form been a noble and excellent servant of his community, the basis of a solution. I hope that we can cut those tolls his party and the House during his long time here. He dramatically, and ensure that high tolls are not used as a has twice been Secretary of State for Wales, and he has cash cow for the Government in the future. That—along been a great friend to Wales and to me. I know that with persuading First Great Western to increase its everyone in the House will join me in paying great capacity on commuter routes such as the one from tribute to him. Bristol to Cardiff—would go some way towards resolving some of the transport problems in my part of the world. Along with my hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Let me end by wishing a very happy retirement—well, Môn, my right hon. Friend drew attention to what an it is not strictly a retirement, but it is a retirement from important event this is. It is, in effect, the St David’s day the House—to the right hon. Member for Dwyfor debate, although it is not actually taking place on Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd), and also to my right hon. St David’s day as it has in the past. The debate is Friend the Member for Torfaen (Paul Murphy), who important because it puts Wales in the spotlight, at the has given fantastic support to me over the years, both in heart of our national conversation in our national this place and in my former job. I know that we shall United Kingdom Parliament. It is important because miss him greatly. we are of course a minority nation of just 3 million people among 60 million, and there is always a danger that, as a minority part of the UK state, our voices are 4.30 pm drowned out in the babel of voices from other parts of Owen Smith (Pontypridd) (Lab): It is a great pleasure the UK, in particular of course the lion’s share of to wind up this important debate on behalf of the people who live in and come from England. This Parliament Opposition. I join others in congratulating the hon. is in institutional terms the greatest expression of this Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) and my United Kingdom. My right hon. Friend the Member hon. Friend the Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) for Torfaen spoke for me and many on the Opposition on securing the debate, and I thank the Backbench Benches, and indeed for many on the other side of the Business Committee for allowing it. House, when he expressed his concerns about the way in We have heard many excellent and diverse speeches, which the voice of Wales has been diminished and is at to which I pay tribute. The right hon. Member for risk of being diminished to an even greater extent as we Clwyd West (Mr Jones) spoke without a trace of irony move forward. The Government have, I fear, played fast of his desire for a reduction in the level of VAT applying and loose with some of the constitutional arrangements to Welsh tourism businesses—failing, of course, to mention in this country, and have engaged in attacks on parts of that he was a member of the Government who raised this country, notably Wales, as a proxy for attacking the level of VAT applying to tourism and, indeed, to Labour, and have failed to appreciate the lasting damage everyone in Wales. However, he spoke extremely well they are doing, and will continue to do if they persist about Wales, with great passion and conviction. with these attacks, on the social and economic union of I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Ceredigion Great Britain, the most effective and successful social, (Mr Williams), who spoke mainly about the tourism political and economic union ever created in the world. and farming industries in his part of Wales. I also pay That is a theme I intend to return to later. tribute to the hon. Member for Monmouth (David T. C. First, I shall do two simple things: I want to reflect on Davies), the Chair of the Select Committee, who spoke how the last five years of this Tory-Liberal coalition has with his customary verve and chutzpah, and, with his impacted on Wales—on our people, our prosperity and customary diligence, managed to reprise the “flat earth” our public finances; and I want to reflect on how the 1173 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1174 relationship between Wales and the rest of the UK has channelled his Welshness in trying to come up with a evolved under it, both in terms of the business of nickname for the Secretary of State. There is a great government and the attitudes of the Welsh people to the tradition of nicknames in Wales—Dai the Milk, Evans governance of our country. the Coal, and we even had Jones the Jag at one point in It may have escaped your notice, Mr Deputy Speaker, this place—but so impressed was the Prime Minister at and it certainly escaped the notice of many people in the way in which the Secretary of State has warmed to Wales, that the Prime Minister has been reflecting on devolution, indeed undertaken a damascene conversion, the very same theme in this last St David’s week of this I am told that he referred to him as being known now in Parliament. Perhaps because he was admonished by the Tory circles as “Stevolution”. It has a certain ring to it, Secretary of State, along with his other Cabinet colleagues, doesn’t it? I am not sure that it is the ring of truth, for speaking ill of Wales—told to mind his language however. I am not entirely persuaded that he is now so when talking about the Land of our Fathers—the Prime devo-friendly that he could be known as “Stevolution” Minister has been love-bombing Wales in the last week. in Tory circles. He came to Cardiff at the weekend to speak at the Tory What certainly does not have the ring of truth are party conference, singing Sam Warburton’s praises and some of the other claims that the Prime Minister has resisting, I am glad to say, even a glimmer of gloating at been making on behalf of the Tories. He claimed this the fact that we lost to the English. Then he hosted the week that it was the Tories who brought Pinewood St David’s day reception on Monday, which I was studios to Wales, despite the fact that the UK Government unable to attend. I think I am right in saying that it is had nothing to do with it— the first St David’s day reception—the first for a long while—that the Conservative Prime Minister has held Stephen Crabb: He did not say that. at No. 10. [HON.MEMBERS: “More than one!”] If I am wrong, I happily withdraw that. It is certainly the first Owen Smith: Well, I am terribly sorry, but I have read one to which I and other Labour Members have been the Prime Minister’s speech, and that is precisely what invited, shall we say? So it was a pleasant surprise to he said, despite the fact that that was nothing to do with receive the stiff card, but I am afraid I was unable to the UK Government. It was delivered entirely by the attend. Obviously Conservatives have previously been Welsh Government while this Government were slashing invited, but we were not. arts funding. Throughout this period of love-bombing the Prime The Prime Minister also claimed that the Tories were Minister has been looking back at the relationship responsible for Hitachi rebuilding Wylfa power station, between his Government and Wales. Some of it has despite the fact that it was of course the last Labour been pure fantasy. In one speech he was musing about Government who signed the contract for that new the prospects of Tory candidates winning seats in the generation power station. He even claimed credit for valleys, ousting sitting and prospective Labour Members Airbus making wings for the A380 in Wales, despite the and wishing our candidates a cheery “da iawn” on fact that the company has been making aircraft at coming second. The Prime Minister, I am told, even had Broughton since the second world war. The most shameless to have lessons in pronunciation— in this series of porkies was the suggestion that the Tories had secured the funding for S4C, when in truth Stephen Crabb indicated dissent. they had cut it by a third.

Owen Smith: The Secretary of State shakes his head, Stephen Crabb: The shadow Secretary of State was but, as he ought to know, the speech was released to the doing really well up to this point, but he has now let media accidentally with the “da iawn” included in it and himself down. The important point that the Prime some suggestions as to how the Prime Minister ought to Minister was making when he referred to all those pronounce that, but if he thinks there is any prospect of positive things that are happening in the Welsh economy Tories in the valleys ousting our Members I have another was not that politicians are taking the credit; he was bit of Welsh for him: “Yn dy freuddwydion,” which giving the credit to business. That is the crucial difference means “In your dreams.” between our party and the hon. Gentleman’s party: we praise business; Labour attacks it. Alun Cairns rose— Owen Smith: I would fully accept that, were it consonant Owen Smith: I will happily give way. Is the hon. with the facts. The Prime Minister actually said in his Gentleman about to correct my Welsh? conference speech, after listing all those achievements: “We need to tell everyone who did all this…it’s us.” Alun Cairns: May I suggest that, having made such This clearly is not true. an attempt at Welsh, perhaps the hon. Gentleman needs A bigger truth is that the Tories have done precious some lessons in pronunciation? little to help the economy of Wales, but they have done plenty to hinder it. The people of Wales know that. Owen Smith: I would accept that, as a native English When they hear the Secretary of State and the Prime speaker and a failed Welsh learner. I am still trying, Minister claiming credit for creating jobs in Wales, they although I have not reached the same standards as know that 90,000 contracts or jobs in Wales, not 35,000 some, but I think that was a fair attempt at “In your individuals, but that might also be right—[Interruption.] dreams.” No, I said “jobs” yesterday. The Secretary of State Other examples from the Prime Minister have been should read the Hansard. They know that too many of pure comedy gold—not weak gags like that. We have had those jobs are Tory-style mini-jobs involving zero-hours some excellent examples from the Prime Minister. He contracts, zero security, low wages and low productivity. 1175 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1176

[Owen Smith] spending for Wales has been cut by £1.5 billion. So we will stand proudly on our record and we can rest They also know that a quarter of Welsh workers earn assured that the people of Wales will understand that less than the living wage. Wales has the lowest disposable we will deliver for Wales. incomes in the UK. The people of Wales know that these facts give the lie Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. We to the notion that there is a Tory-led recovery, as does do need to bring the Secretary of State on, because we the fact that we are £68 billion short on tax receipts and still need two minutes at the end. spending £25 billion extra on social security. The price of this failure in Wales under the Tories is a tenfold Owen Smith: Lots of Members in this House today increase in the volume of people using food banks and have invoked history in this important debate, and I will £1,700 less in the pockets of Welsh families. do that one more time. The Prime Minister, in his amusing recent speech, said: In stark contrast, the Welsh Labour Government have shown that they can get Wales working again. Jobs “The Welsh dragon is roaring again—and it’s not red, it’s Growth Wales, designed and built in Cardiff, has got blue.” 17,000 young people back to work, showing that local I suggest that, historically speaking, we ought to invoke solutions with bespoke ideas can deliver jobs in Wales. another great Welshman, the first leader of the Labour So it is inexplicable that the Tory party—the “party of party and former Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare, real devolution”, as I am told it now calls itself—is still Keir Hardie, the anniversary of whose death we celebrate refusing to devolve the Work programme to Wales, as this year. He said that Wales is represented by “Y Labour will when we win in May. Inexplicable, too—to Ddraig Goch a’r Faner Goch”—the red dragon on the many in Wales—is why fair funding for Wales is being red flag of Labour. That was true in 1915 and it will be promised only if Wales agrees to raise taxes. true again, I trust, on 8 May 2015. Last week, the Welsh Secretary made some important announcements about his Government’s intentions to 4.47 pm take forward the recommendations of the cross-party The Secretary of State for Wales (Stephen Crabb): It Silk Commission if—heaven forefend—they are back in is a real privilege to speak as Welsh Secretary for the government next time. The Opposition agree with many first time in a St David’s day debate. We have had a of those extra measures. Putting the Welsh settlement good debate, with a good selection of contributions on to the same statutory footing and making the Welsh from Members from across the parties representative of legislature a permanent part of the UK constitution are Wales. We have heard from Members from right across proposals that we can agree on. We also agree with Wales in an interesting and stimulating discussion. It is proposals to give powers to Wales over elections and fitting that we should use this St David’s day debate to energy, and additional powers over ports and marine draw to a close a good week for Wales and to reflect on matters. Indeed, we said all those things first. But we what this Government have achieved in Wales during will go further. We will give Wales powers over policing, this Parliament. I pay particular tribute to my hon. which is why I was disappointed at the mischaracterisation Friend the Member for Montgomeryshire (Glyn Davies) of Labour’s position by the right hon. Member for and the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) for Dwyfor Meirionnydd. I am sure the Secretary of State securing this debate, and it is important that we do have will recall our position during those talks, which was, it every year. Of course, the Wright reforms recognised “Reserved and then announced at the party conference that as we transferred more days in a Session to Back-Bench for Labour in Wales.” control, the territorial debates should be part of that. Lastly, fair funding for Wales was one of the most So today’s debate is entirely in keeping with that tradition. important aspects of the talks. It is disingenuous of the The opening contribution from my hon. Friend the Secretary of State now to talk about delivering fair Member for Montgomeryshire was wise and as insightful funding, given that his Government have cut £1.5 billion as ever. One thing that caught my ear was his saying from the funding for Wales and he knows that their that no one can really understand Wales unless they are plans to cut funding to the rest of the UK back to the Welsh, and I believe he quoted someone as saying that levels of the 1930s will have a deeply damaging effect on no Englishman truly understands Wales. I happen to Wales. Cutting spending back to the level it was when think we have a Prime Minister who does get Wales and the NHS was just a glint in Nye Bevan’s eye would be does understand why it is different. As a result, he devastating for Wales. So we agree with the Secretary of understands far better than any of the other UK leaders State that there should be a funding floor in Wales, but the importance of the Union and why devolution matters. want to see the detail and to know precisely where they Perhaps the Prime Minister gave us a hint at his own will set that floor. Only then will the people of Wales St David’s day party on Monday night as to why he trust this Tory Government— understands Wales so well. Of course, he revealed that he has Welsh ancestry, and does not have to go that far Alun Cairns: What detail is the hon. Gentleman back to find that one of his forebears was Llewellyn, a prepared to put forward on Labour’s funding floor tin-plate maker in Glamorgan. So I think all of us in the proposal? The shadow Chancellor said in Cardiff today House this afternoon from Wales will welcome the fact that Labour would be presenting no detail this side of that we are cut from the same cloth as the Prime the election. Minister. As I look back, I think 2014 was a great year for Wales. Owen Smith: We will stand on our record of having I think it was the best year for Wales since the devolution trebled the funding for Wales during our period in era began. It was a year for Wales to look upwards and office. While the Under-Secretary has been in office, the outwards, a year of ambition—a year when the Prime 1177 Welsh Affairs5 MARCH 2015 Welsh Affairs 1178

Minister brought the NATO summit to Wales. Indeed, Plaid Cymru; he is a Welsh nationalist. However, I hope he brought the world to Wales, when the largest gathering he appreciates that we had good, constructive conversations of international leaders that the UK has ever seen came and that this was a good example of politicians from to Newport and Cardiff in south Wales. It was a year across Wales thinking about things in a way we have not when Wales’s international profile could not have been done before, rolling up our sleeves and trying to be higher. Two months later, we brought the international pragmatic. I appreciate the spirit in which he participated investment summit back to the Celtic Manor in Newport, in that exercise and the contribution that Plaid Cymru where more than 150 global investors came to look at made to the process. why Wales is such a great place to invest. It was the year, My hon. Friend the Member for Ceredigion as I mentioned earlier, when inward investment for (Mr Williams) made a great speech. The first Westminster Wales was at its highest level for almost 25 years. At that Hall debate that I secured, almost 10 years ago, when I investment summit, we announced our commitment to was first elected, was on the future of the dairy industry. electrifying the south Wales and the valleys rail lines—a He made a powerful contribution in that debate about project that has been discussed for years, but which it the dairy industry in Wales. I guess it is sad that we are took a Conservative-led coalition Government to take still focusing on some of those issues, looking at market forward. imbalances and unfair practices in the way suppliers are Last year was also a year of reaching for the stars, a treated by large processors and large supermarkets. It is year of ambition—a year when Team Wales, the Welsh a testimony to his tenaciousness that he keeps banging Commonwealth games team, smashed every one of its the drum and fighting the fight for dairy farmers, targets, up at the Commonwealth games in Glasgow. It particularly from west Wales, which is such an important was indeed a year of reaching for stars—the year when part of our economy. three Welsh companies participated in that amazing We had a good contribution from the hon. Member project that landed a probe on a comet travelling at for Ynys Môn, who talked about energy production 36,000 mph, 300 million miles from earth. We have and food production. I am sure he is aware that the food some great Welsh companies, and as the economy continues that was served up at the Prime Minister’s St David’s to improve in Wales, we are seeing some of the best day reception on Monday night was prepared by a team innovation anywhere in the UK coming out of Wales. of chefs from north Wales. They were part of the Welsh I will return to the economy, if I have time, in a Culinary Association. [Interruption.] We will make sure moment, but it is telling that just before this debate that the hon. Gentleman is down for it next year. Some started, I was at the First Minister’s own St David’s day of the ingredients used were indeed from Ynys Môn. reception, which was hosted by the Foreign Office. He He is quite right that the annual Anglesey day has too praised the NATO summit coming to Wales, and become an event of almost international renown; on said it was even better for Wales given that the UK display is a superb array of quality. Government were paying the bills for it. The other I probably do not have time to discuss all the important point he made at this afternoon’s event was contributions. I was particularly struck by what the about the improving economy in Wales. We have a First hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) said. He Minister—a Welsh Labour First Minister—who recognises gave an incredibly optimistic, upbeat and bright speech and praises the economic recovery that is happening in about Wales and its future. As he was speaking, I Wales. Unfortunately, he has party colleagues in this scribbled the words, “Sunshine and daffodils”, which place who talk down the economic recovery. One of the are perhaps not characteristic of his usual contributions. great themes of the last two years is the way that Welsh His comments about the paradise of 10th-century Wales Labour in Westminster faces one way, while Welsh were perhaps slightly rose-tinted, but we are grateful to Labour in Cardiff faces another when it comes to him for the air of daffodils he brought to this debate. thinking, reflecting and talking about what is going on Two issues were mentioned that the Wales Office inside the Welsh economy. needs to follow up, the first of which concerns the Now would be a good moment to pay particular 2 Sisters Food Group, with which we are currently tribute to the contribution from the right hon. Member dealing. The hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) for Torfaen (Paul Murphy), a distinguished former Secretary has also written to me about a matter we have talked of State who has achieved an incredible amount in his about on at least two or three occasions. I apologise that lifetime, not just for Wales, but for Northern Ireland, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills has the other great country that he has huge knowledge of not secured the meeting she wanted. We have been and passion for. He reflected on his first St David’s day pushing on the issue and will continue to do so. I debate, back in 1987, and talked about some of the promise to try to make that meeting happen before parallels that he sees in Wales now in respect of funding. Parliament wraps up for the general election. I know Of course, 1987 was also a time when Wales was attracting she has worked hard on what is an incredibly difficult some 20% of all UK inward investment; a time when issue, but she has her teeth into it and we wish her every the Welsh Development Agency was achieving great success in getting to the bottom of it. things for Wales. We need to get back to some of those In the two or three minutes remaining, let me focus strong points about Wales, which he reflected on. on the economy. We have two counter-narratives going We also had a superb contribution from the right on. On the Government Benches, we say not that the hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd), job is done or that everything is rosy in the garden, but who, like the right hon. Member for Torfaen, is standing that really good progress is being made. We say that the down at the general election. He used his contribution fall in unemployment across Wales is remarkable. It is to talk about devolution. In his view, the St David’s day completely contrary to everything that Welsh Labour process was a missed opportunity, because he would had been predicting four years ago. We say that the drop have wanted to go further. Of course he would: he is of 39,000 in the number of children growing up in a 1179 Welsh Affairs 5 MARCH 2015 1180

[Stephen Crabb] Littlewoods and Telegraph Pension Funds Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House home where neither mum nor dad are working is not do now adjourn.—(Mel Stride.) just economic transformation but social transformation, and we want that to continue. 5pm I am proud to be part of a Government who are tackling the abuses of zero-hours contracts. That did Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): I am proud not happen under Labour’s watch, but under this coalition to represent the seat of Mid Bedfordshire, but I am also Government’s. We have taken steps to ban the exclusivity proud to have been born and bred in Liverpool. I have clauses that are the really pernicious parts of zero-hours secured this Adjournment debate because I am gravely contracts. If the moral outrage from Labour over zero-hours concerned that the pensions of many thousands of contracts was genuine, why are so many Labour councils people in Liverpool and elsewhere in Britain, including employing people on such contracts? Why do I read in in my constituency, might be in danger and that if the press all these reports of Labour MPs employing things go badly wrong the British people, via the Pension staff on zero-hours contracts? Let us have a little less of Protection Fund, will be called on to pick up the pieces. that faux moral outrage, and a bit more realistic and We must not forget the lessons learned from the honest reflection on what are difficult issues. Robert Maxwell scandal. Potentially, billions of pounds I will wrap up now to allow my hon. Friend the of public money is at stake, placed at risk by the Member for Montgomeryshire to sum up the debate pension schemes of the companies ultimately controlled that he helped to secure. I think 2014 was the year in by two men, Sir David and Sir Frederick Barclay, also which the economic recovery moved up a gear in Wales; known as the Barclay twins. 2015 will be the year in which the people of Wales will The twins are rich men, although perhaps not as rich start to feel it and share in the benefits. What will put it as they appear to be, who live in Monaco and in a all at risk is the barrage of anti-business negativity and pseudo-Gothic castle on the island of Brecqhou, off criticism which has become a dominant theme of the Sark, to avoid British tax. They do not pay their fair Labour party—certainly the party at Westminster. share of tax, yet their company, Shop Direct, formerly known as Littlewoods, is suing the British taxpayer for 4.58 pm £1.2 billion in compound interest for overpayment of tax on a company the Barclay twins did not even own Glyn Davies: We have had a thoroughly enjoyable when the event took place. Some might call that greedy. debate, with several entertaining contributions as well I do. The Barclay twins are avariciously greedy. as some insightful ones. I hope Members will forgive me if I make special reference to the contributions of the The Twins are notoriously reclusive, which is rather right hon. Members for Torfaen (Paul Murphy) and for weird, as they own The Daily Telegraph, and they are Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd), who showed us the notoriously aggressive in defence of their own reputations. quality of their contributions to this House over many, Twice they have sued British journalists in France. The many years and what we will miss when they have BBC “Panorama” journalist John Sweeney was convicted retired. On behalf of everybody, I thank them both for of criminal libel in France for comments he made on all their work. BBC Radio Guernsey. In 2005, The Times was sued by the twins, again in France. Some might call it hypocritical It has been an incredibly entertaining afternoon. It is for owners of a British newspaper that regularly dishes entirely unreasonable for us not to have a six-hour debate. out dirt to sue competitor journalists in a foreign It is unreasonable to restrict a Welsh man or woman to jurisdiction. I call that hypocritical. When I wrote a just 12 minutes; we like to talk for much longer than critical judgment of their actions on my blog, they that. We had my right hon. Friend the Member for harassed my blog site host with midnight e-mails from Monmouth (David T. C. Davies)—[Interruption.] It is lawyers in New York, France and London, forcing my only a matter of time. We had my hon. Friend the host to close down my blog for a few hours. The Barclay Member for Monmouth standing up and advocating twins are deeply hypocritical. nationalisation, and then the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) suggesting that that was part of his People who watched the “Panorama” programme movement to the far left. We also heard about historical “The Tax Havens Twins”, still available on YouTube, Welsh jurisdiction, which has some basis in sharia law, saw ordinary people on Sark give witness that they have as far as I can see. been bullied by the twins’ representative on the island. The Barclay twins are also bullies. I thank everybody for a wonderful debate. Let us all look forward—those of us who are still here—to the The danger to public funds from the twins is same next year. fundamentally simple, although the details are murky and obscure, perhaps deliberately so. The twins’ companies, Question put and agreed to. including Shop Direct and Yodel, are losing money Resolved, hand over fist. Yodel has a loan with HSBC worth That this House has considered Welsh affairs. £250 million pounds, and if we add that to other loans we see that the twins’ companies owe about £l billion to the banks. That may all be with HSBC, and not just the £250 million as reported. In addition, Shop Direct has traded receipts from its loan book for a £1.25 billion pound facility with a clearing bank, believed to be HSBC. On the rare occasion when profits are made, they are shelled out of the individual company and transferred to parent and/or grandparent companies often incorporated 1181 Littlewoods and Telegraph Pension 5 MARCH 2015 Littlewoods and Telegraph Pension 1182 Funds Funds offshore in the British Virgin Islands, Bermuda and and contributors from scheme shortfalls. I fear that the other offshore havens. In plain English, the twins’businesses money will be siphoned offshore, leaving the tax payer are losing massive amounts of cash, and when they do via the Pension Protection Fund to pick up the £1 billion- not they are hollowed out. If the pension funds suddenly plus price tag if the group continues to perform financially needed a fresh injection of funds, how easy would it be as badly as it has been doing. for the pension trustees to extract that money from this complex maze of offshore accounts? The Barclays winning or losing their £1.2 billion The answer to the question turns on the strength of court case makes no difference to this scenario. If they the pension fund covenants. Again, the picture is not win, they could siphon the money abroad and the British clear, and that is not good. Let us take the Littlewoods taxpayer will pick up the bill. If they lose, the British scheme, the Littlewoods plan, the GUS ex-gratia unfunded taxpayer picks up the bill by picking up any shortfall in scheme and the unfunded scheme for members. I will the scheme fund. Can we depend on the Barclay twins refer to them as “the scheme” for short, and that scheme to do the right thing should the scheme suffer a shortfall? is worth £1.37 billion. We can only make that assessment based on their financial track record and character. We know that they are in One of the problems highlighted by the Robert Maxwell serious debt. We know that they were criticized for their scandal was that too many of the pension fund trustees role in the Crown Agents scandal going all the way back were dependent on Robert Maxwell. How many of the to 1973. As Mr Paddy McKillen, the owner of three Littlewoods scheme trustees are genuinely independent London hotels, can testify, they lack scruples. Mr McKillen’s of the twins? One, maybe two. Of the eight trustees, I American social security number was stolen in order to can identify five that are not. The Pensions Regulator gain access to his financial information as part of an recommends the appointment of a professional trustee aggressive and hostile takeover of his business. for a large scheme. As far as we can tell, no such appointment has been made. It also recommends two Let us take a look at the experience of the islanders independent trustees. Of the two that are in place, one on Sark. For years they have been bullied, blackmailed, has been there since 1997, the other since 2008—that is threatened and terrorised. People have fled the island, not independent. others have woken to find flyers and papers with their With a pension scheme worth £1.37 billion, it is very personal information posted across the island. When worrying that the recommendations of the Pensions the wife of the seigneur of Sark fell seriously ill, the Regulator appear to be ignored. That is at the heart of twins’ man on the island attacked the seigneur, and all this matter. The dire financial performance of Shop because the Barclays want control of the island and for Direct and Yodel, the £1 billion of loans, and the trade it to be run as they see fit. The character of the twins of the Shop Direct loan book for a further £1.25 billion can be summed up in three words: greedy, hypocritical give rise to concerns that the trustees must, by law, and bullying. address. Minister, is that happening? Recently, journalist Peter Oborne left The Daily Telegraph What assurance can the Minister provide that if the because, he said, the paper was defrauding its readers. Barclay twins win their victory in court and get £1.2 billion He said that it had gone soft on HSBC because it did from the taxpayer, the money will stay here in the UK not want to lose advertising income. Mr Oborne understated for the benefit of the scheme fund members, should the problem. The Daily Telegraph went soft on HSBC there be a shortfall? What guarantee can he give that if not just for fear of losing advertising money but because there were a shortfall, the British taxpayer will not be the twins’ companies are in so much debt to HSBC—at funding the scheme via the Pension Protection Fund? least £250 million, possibly as much as £1 billion in Has the Pensions Regulator looked into this matter, loans if HSBC is the bank behind the loan-book deal. given the poor financial performance and indebtedness The Daily Telegraph owners may have a further £1.25 billion of the contributing companies? of reasons to be soft on the tax cheats’ bank. We are The Robert Maxwell pensions scandal happened because talking a cool £2 billion-plus here, not the £250 million too many people— journalists, politicians, pension fund that was recently reported. trustees and lawyers—held their tongue for fear of legal As I have told the House, the twins are suing the threats and intimidation. Today, the Government protect taxpayer in the Supreme Court for almost exactly the same individuals against pension fund loss via the PPF, but amount as the loan book agreement, which by the way, that fund could not survive a hit to the tune of £1 billion. requires renewal every 12 months, making it very vulnerable. I know the Minister will be keen to provide reassurance They have already received the simple interest and that all is well with the fund, but all is not well when one principal amounting to over £470 million so they have considers the existing make-up of the fund trustees. We already taken a fair slug of our money. But it is not are not just concerned about today. Just under the enough. These offshore, non-UK taxpayers would like surface, things are not well. I urge the Minister to use the British taxpayer to transfer to their pockets the cost his good offices and impress on the Pensions Regulator of four operational hospitals or 12 running schools. But the need to evaluate at the very least the composition they may not win their case in the Supreme Court. The and validity of the scheme trustees. twins’ companies underlying the pension funds may end up in a serious amount of debt, running into billions, Today the foundations of the Barclay twins’ empire just like Robert Maxwell’s companies. are cracking. Tomorrow the walls may come tumbling If the twins win their case, how are to we ensure that down. I hope that as a consequence of the dire financial the £1.2 billion remains on British soil to safeguard the circumstances of the Barclay twins’ companies, there scheme from future poor investment returns? As we will be no threat to the long-term security of the pensioners know, that happens. It is the reason why the Pension dependent on them. I hope I am wrong, but I fear I may Protection Fund was established—to protect members be right. 1183 Littlewoods and Telegraph Pension 5 MARCH 2015 Littlewoods and Telegraph Pension 1184 Funds Funds 5.11 pm in 2012 means that the regulator was content that it was appropriate to respond to the deficit and the scheme as The Minister for Pensions (Steve Webb): I begin by it then stood. The Littlewoods pension trust has since congratulating the hon. Member for Mid Bedfordshire been paying around £12 million a year into the scheme, (Nadine Dorries) on securing this debate. I will focus in line with the plan, and I understand that from my remarks on the Littlewoods and Telegraph pension July 2016 that amount will increase to £15 million. funds and the matters that fall within my responsibility. I hope that I can respond helpfully to her concerns. Obviously I cannot comment on the hon. Lady’s The security of pension scheme members’ pensions is wider remarks on corporate structures and various always a matter of concern to me and to the House, and other matters, but I can say that, as far as we are aware, rightly so. It might help to clarify one or two points the recovery plan has been adhered to, it was agreed and about the regulatory regime and the protection afforded signed off by the regulator, and the payments in line to members, because it differs according to the type of with the plan have been made. scheme, and the risk of a shortfall differs according to the type of scheme. Within Littlewoods and Telegraph Nadine Dorries: The Minister has rightly detailed the there are different sorts of pension schemes, some of assets, but can he clarify who would have first call on which are at risk of shortfall and some of which are not. those assets if there was a shortfall in the scheme, if the It might help if I put that on the record at the outset. company was in dire financial straits and if it had £2 billion of debts: the pension scheme or the banks? Nadine Dorries: May I clarify one point? Although the title of the debate is Littlewoods and Telegraph Steve Webb: As the hon. Lady says, the pension pension schemes, I deliberately did not speak about the scheme is underwritten by the Pension Protection Fund. Telegraph pension scheme because it came to my attention There is a regulatory regime to ensure that companies today that it is in the process of changing, for whatever do not hide money, for example. I will say a little more reason, its fund managers, so I felt that it was inappropriate about that, because she raised the issue of money going to comment on it. offshore. Essentially, the regulator has powers to ensure that, when there is an insolvency event and a shortfall in Steve Webb: For the record, the Telegraph pension the pension fund, companies cannot simply walk away plan is what is called a defined contribution pension with money that has been squirreled away elsewhere. scheme, and it is therefore not capable of having a The regulator has powers to ensure that money that shortfall and there are no pension promises attached to should be accessible in the event of insolvency is accessible. the plan. There used to be a Telegraph executive pension If there is still a shortfall, the Pension Protection Fund scheme, which is now closed. I believe it transferred into comes into play. I will respond in a moment to her the Telegraph pension plan, so my understanding is that comment that the Pension Protection Fund is essentially none of the members of those schemes is at risk of a hit on the taxpayer, because the situation is slightly shortfall, regardless of the position of the sponsoring more complicated than that. employer. Let me return to a point the hon. Lady made about The hon. Lady raised the Littlewoods and Shop the governance of the schemes. The members’ interests Direct schemes. Both of those are salary-related schemes. in any pension scheme of that sort are meant to be The Shop Direct scheme, which is separate from the protected by trustees. I agree that it is important that Littlewoods one, covers around 400 staff. I understand the trustees are properly appointed and that they do that it is closed to new members and for contributions their job in line with the law. With regard to the Littlewoods by existing members. Under the regulatory regime, schemes scheme, by law there have to be member-nominated are valued, their assets and liabilities are measured, and trustees. My understanding is that there are four such if there is a shortfall, plans are put in place to deal with trustees on the Littlewoods scheme and two on the it. I understand that the assets of the Shop Direct smaller Shop Direct scheme. As far as we can see, the scheme at the last valuation were £120 million, with membership of the trustee board is in line with statutory liabilities of £100 million. So the Shop Direct scheme is requirements. currently in surplus, which is relatively unusual for a All trustees, whether appointed by the company or scheme of this sort. nominated by members, have the same fiduciary duty to Let me say a little about how the Littlewoods pension scheme members: however they got on board, they all scheme operates. The way in which such pension schemes have the same duty. If the hon. Lady has any reason to operate is that there is a triennial valuation. The assets think that any member of the trustee board is not and liabilities are valued and the last triennial valuation fulfilling their fiduciary duty to scheme members, I of the Littlewoods scheme was in December 2012. encourage her to give the names directly to the Pensions Obviously, things have moved on since then and the Regulator and provide it with evidence for that assertion. figures arguably are different now. The last triennial Those founded allegations would then be investigated. valuation gave assets of £1 billion and a deficit—in We certainly believe that trustees have an important job excess, therefore, of the assets—of around £176 million. to do. If there are any concerns that they are not doing The way the regulatory regime works means that that that job, she should certainly raise them directly with amount does not have to be found overnight—obviously, the Pensions Regulator, with names and evidence. The the liabilities might run on for decades—so something fact that someone has been a trustee for a long time called a recovery plan has to be put in place, and it has does not in and of itself make them biased or unfit to be to be agreed by the trustees and the sponsoring employer a trustee, but clearly the rules require at least a third of and signed off by the Pensions Regulator. The company the board to be nominated by scheme members. They is currently five years into a recovery plan that will run are not representatives of the members as such, but they until December 2021, and the fact that it was signed off all have a legal duty to all the members. 1185 Littlewoods and Telegraph Pension 5 MARCH 2015 Littlewoods and Telegraph Pension 1186 Funds Funds Let me move on to the regulatory regime that is scheme pension age and 90% for those who have not, meant to protect members. The key point is that every with some limitations on indexation and some caps. three years the scheme has to be valued: we measure the Any shortfall between PPF-level benefits and the amount assets and the liability. If there is a shortfall, a plan has of money that goes in from an insolvent employer and to be put in place, as it has been for the Littlewoods their scheme is made up from the PPF. That money scheme. Three years later, a fresh action is taken, with comes from the levy payers, who are sponsoring employers, assets and liabilities measured. If there is still a shortfall, and not from the taxpayer. a revised recovery plan is brought in. The idea is to The only indirect impact on the taxpayer, I suppose, strike a balance, ensuring that the scheme is properly could be if someone’s pension is substantially reduced funded and that, if there is an insolvency event, members and they are so poor in retirement that they claim are protected and the Pension Protection Fund is protected, means-tested benefits. There could be a marginal impact but without killing the goose that lays the golden egg. on the taxpayer, but the way PPF works means that, if We do not insist on an excessively rapid filling in of schemes end up in it, the cost—for example, through pension scheme deficits, because it might undermine increased levies—is borne by other sponsoring employers. the solvency of the sponsoring employer, which is the Of course, we care about that. We do not want other best guarantee of getting the pensions paid. We try to sponsoring employers—“good” and solvent employers strike a balance. A recovery plan is an agreement between responsible for final salary pension schemes—to face the trustees and the sponsoring employer and it is any bill in excess of that which they need to face. Of signed off by the Pensions Regulator. As I have said, the course, it matters to us that people meet their liabilities last recovery plan is being stuck to so far, so whatever and recovery plans, but that is not something that will else might be happening in the corporate group or to have a direct impact on the taxpayer. the funds of the company, the obligations to the pension It is entirely proper to seek assurances that we are on scheme, in line with the recovery plan, are being met. our guard and protecting the interests of scheme members. The hon. Lady asked, quite properly, what happens if The people in place to protect the interests of scheme money goes offshore. I assure her that the Pensions members are the trustees. We have looked at the composition Regulator has powers to act if it believes that money of the trustees of these pension schemes and, on the that should properly be available to the employer and face of it, there is nothing irregular or out of line with then to the pension fund is somehow being concealed what they are legally required to do. However, if the and removed from the country. The regulator can issue hon. Lady has evidence to the contrary, I encourage her a financial support direction, which requires the employer to share it with the regulator. or a connected or associated person to put in place The funding position of many schemes is in deficit, financial support for the pension scheme. The regulator and some have bigger deficits than in the Littlewoods has demonstrated that it can take effective action against case. As I have said, one scheme is actually in surplus, employers, even when an employer is based overseas. which is quite unusual. For a scheme in deficit, there is a To give an example from January and the Carrington process of recovery plans that must be adhered to. We Wire pension scheme, the regulator issued warning notices take that very seriously, and we would not accept a to two companies based in Russia and subsequently sponsoring employer saying that it cannot afford to reached an £8.5 million settlement with them. In addition, meet the recovery plan if it turns out that it has money the regulator has in the past also taken action against stashed somewhere else. companies based in America, Canada and the Bahamas. We have powers to intervene in corporate restructurings. Although I absolutely understand the concerns that If the Pensions Regulator believes that a sponsoring money going offshore inevitably makes things more employer is somehow artificially contriving the structure complicated—I accept that—the regulator’s powers and of its business to shield assets and generate insolvency, ability to act are not restricted to the UK. The regulator meaning that there is suddenly no money to be found, can take action in other courts and has successfully the regulator can take pre-emptive action by refusing to recovered money when that has proved necessary. clear various forms of corporate restructuring or, more On the case under discussion, I stress that, as far as normally, by placing conditions on corporate restructurings, we can see, there is a recovery plan and the payments and that sometimes results in a corporate restructuring are being met. If the regulator had concerns that payments not happening. were not being met, it could take action, but as long as I reassure the hon. Lady that we are not entirely the triennial valuations are happening, the scheme is passive in all of this: we do not sit and wait for things to being properly governed and the payments are being go wrong. There is a systematic three-year valuation made, that is what is required of the sponsoring employer. process, and there is a process for agreeing credible The hon. Lady referred to the Pension Protection recovery plans. We do not let such plans run on into the Fund as a risk to the taxpayer. To be clear, the revenue middle distance in the vague hope that in 20 years’ time of the PPF comes from the assets of pension schemes somebody will have some cash; we make them realistic where there has been an insolvency event. The assets go so that the deficit is recovered in a reasonable period. into the PPF, so there is then an investment return on We try to make sure that schemes are well governed. them. The PPF also raises a levy, which is not taxpayer- The regulator has a trustee toolkit to equip trustees and funded; the levy is on sponsoring employers of remaining enable them to do their job properly, and it would act salary-related pension schemes. Obviously, the Pensions on any concerns about trustees not doing their job Regulator is trying to protect the PPF—we do not want properly. any claims, if possible, on the PPF—but in the event of I hope that I have been able to respond to the hon. Lady’s an insolvency the PPF pays members’ pensions with, concerns. As we have established, the Telegraph scheme roughly speaking, 100% for those who have reached is not of the kind that can generate a shortfall, so that 1187 Littlewoods and Telegraph Pension 5 MARCH 2015 Littlewoods and Telegraph Pension 1188 Funds Funds [Steve Webb] Question put and agreed to. issue does not arise. The Littlewoods scheme does have a deficit, but a recovery plan is in place, and as far as we can see it is being adhered to. If it was not adhered to, 5.26 pm we would be in a position to take action, and we would do so. I hope that is helpful to the House. House adjourned. 363WH 5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 364WH

Minister where the NPPF is not working in the way it Westminster Hall was intended. I will talk about local plans, which are critical to the NPPF, and the problems associated with Thursday 5 March 2015 councils whose plans have not yet been adopted. I will discuss the merits of neighbourhood plans, speculative planning applications, appeals, the protection of areas [MR ANDREW TURNER in the Chair] of outstanding natural beauty and other concerns about heritage and infrastructure requirements. I will try to be BACKBENCH BUSINESS brief, because other hon. Members want to contribute. Let me start with local plans, which are at the heart of National Planning Policy Framework the NPPF. The NPPF is a plan-led process, and local plans, where they are in place, are a useful planning Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting tool. They provide a clear indication of how much be now adjourned.—(Mel Stride.) development there will be, when it will happen, what else needs to occur alongside the new developments and 1.30 pm other points that are of concern to local people when Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): I am new housing is built. However, there is a gaping hole in delighted to be able to lead this debate. I thank you, the NPPF for planning authorities whose local plan has Mr Turner, and the Backbench Business Committee for not yet been adopted, such as Cotswold and Stroud giving me and the House the opportunity to discuss the district councils, which are both covered by my constituency. national planning policy framework. I am especially It is frankly frustrating, but those councils are not on grateful to my hon. Friend the Minister for being here. I their own, because two fifths of local planning authorities believe that he was in his constituency this morning, are in the same position. It is worrying that a significant and I am sure that he did not want to be dragged back proportion of the planning authorities that are trying here this afternoon. I believe, from today’s Order Paper, to operate within a plan-led system are without a plan. that a written statement will be made later today, and I It is simple logic that for a plan-led system to work, a would be grateful if my hon. Friend could refer to it in plan must be in place. Without a central document his winding-up speech if it has any relevance to this holding together all the different fragments of the planning debate. process, the system will fall apart, as it has in my Planning is an important issue that the House has constituency and, I am sure, in other parts of the discussed a number of times. The Government have just country. published their response to the Communities and Local I have had discussions with various organisations, Government Committee’s good report on the operation including the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors of the national planning policy framework, so it is and the Campaign to Protect Rural England, and it timely that we are able to discuss it today. seems that, in general, high-growth urban areas tend to I welcomed the introduction of the national planning have plans in place, while sparse, rural areas with limited policy framework when the former Minister, my right resources tend not to. Those areas are the most vulnerable hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg to speculative planning applications, and they are also Clark), introduced it in 2012. For far too long, our some of the most beautiful places in these isles. Perhaps planning system was incredibly complicated and consisted I am biased, but the Cotswolds is a jewel in the UK’s of more than 1,000 pages of policy. The NPPF simplified crown. The levels of tourism that my constituents see that guidance into an easy-to-read, readily available, suggest that people flock to it to see idyllic Britain, concise document. I also welcomed the Government’s rather than a large construction site. I genuinely believe publication of guidance, which streamlined 7,000 pages that there is a risk that inappropriate development will into a sensible online guide. All those steps to simplify ruin such rural areas, and that the impact will be felt the planning process were a welcome innovation. locally and nationally for generations to come. I accept that the Government have to find a difficult Without a local plan in place, planning authorities balance. Most people recognise that we need more are at the mercy of developers. My constituency has housing. There is a national need for additional housing, seen a significant number of speculative planning so every community will have to play its part. That is applications, which are often sizeable. There is currently mainly because we are an ageing society with more a proposal for a development of 2,350 dwellings in single households and an increasing population. The Chesterton, on the edge of Cirencester. That is a large CBI has said that Britain needs to build 240,000 houses number of additional houses for any small to medium-sized to keep up with the population growth. It is welcome town to take. news that the Government are on track to build 700,000 One of the biggest problems for authorities whose new homes in this Parliament. However, although we local plan has not been adopted is the sheer lack of recognise the need for more housing, we must ensure clarity about the housing situation in the area. It means that houses are built in the most appropriate places and, that everybody is working from either out-of-date or as far as possible, in accordance with the wishes of local incomplete information, whether it is an old core strategy, people and with good design. or a local or regional plan. It allows an area to be The Government have rightly been driving a localism subject to speculative applications, because developers agenda over the past four and a half years. Unfortunately, know that they have a good chance of success at appeal. in many areas of the country, including my constituency, In the Cotswolds, we increasingly find that councils are localism is almost non-existent in the planning system. not refusing applications that do not conform because The purpose of this debate is not to criticise the existence they fear that the application will be allowed at appeal, of the NPPF, but to highlight to my hon. Friend the which can lead to a huge financial loss for the council. 365WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 366WH

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown] local plan, it is unlikely that that speculative planning application will be refused for fear of an appeal. I say to Each appeal can cost councils upwards of £50,000, the Minister that this is a classic example of local which is a significant amount of money for a small rural people doing all the right things, but not having their council with limited resources. I will address the lack of voice listened to. resources shortly. Kingswood is one of the villages in my constituency If there is no local plan, it is up to each individual that would like to produce a neighbourhood plan. planning inspector to decide how many dwellings are Neighbourhood plans are a fantastic innovation and I needed over a five-year period. That figure can change welcome them—indeed, when the Minister’s predecessor, significantly between inspectors, who have subjective my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford views. That is caused in part by a lack of up-to-date (Nick Boles), was the Planning Minister, he kindly information about local housing need. Decisions about visited the Cotswolds and spoke about the benefits of an issue as complicated and controversial as planning, neighbourhood plans. Following that, I wrote to all my particularly in the Cotswolds, should not be based on parish and town councils encouraging them to develop the subjective views of different inspectors. There needs and adopt neighbourhood plans. The problem is that to be a clearly defined housing need assessment without an adopted local plan in place, neighbourhood methodology, so that all planning authorities and applicants plans have to be considered but can be overruled in the can work with the same system. local planning process. That is a severe erosion of The ratcheting up of housing need is illustrated by localism in the planning process, and I believe that it is the number of appeals in the Cotswolds that were why so few neighbourhood plans are emerging in my upheld by different inspectors over an 18-month period. constituency. It renders all the incredibly hard and An appeal in Tetbury determined that the council had in-depth work required to produce a neighbourhood not met its five-year housing supply, and stated that, as plan redundant if it can simply be ignored. Will the a result of persistent under-delivery of housing in the Minister issue guidelines that provide greater weight to Cotswolds, an additional 20% should be added, which emerging neighbourhood plans or village design statements, brought the figure to 2,426 dwellings required over the even in the absence of local plans? next five years, or 485 annually.However, it was contradicted by an appeal in Kemble, which stated that it was not I mentioned the limited resources that rural councils necessary to apply the 20% buffer. In a more recent often have to deal with planning problems. It seems to decision on an appeal in Fairford, a different inspector me—and during discussions with others, they have claimed that the annual requirement needed to be between agreed—that when local authorities come to reducing 500 and 580. The same report said that it could go up to their expenditure, planning departments are often on as much as 650. It is simply ridiculous for planning the receiving end. As we all know, planning is complicated inspectors to be unclear about what the housing need is and requires much expertise. It is difficult for a small in an area. We need a clear and robust methodology for planning department to undertake its statutory development assessing housing need, so that the number of dwellings control function simultaneously with its forward planning necessary is clear and is not up to the subjective view of function, and it is the forward planning function that each planning inspector. usually suffers. What can the Government do to ensure The Communities and Local Government Committee’s that planning authorities have the resources that they report says, and I totally agree, that all sites that have need to produce local plans in a timely fashion? been granted planning permission should count toward I have a suggestion for the House and for the Minister, the five-year land supply. Allowing planning permission who I hope will consider it: the Government could for speculative applications on appeal and requiring the create a mandatory scheme whereby each planning local authority to find a five-year land supply, let alone authority that does not have an adopted local plan is an additional 20% buffer, means that the amount of provided with a specific planning inspector who can land set aside for development is excessive. mentor that council through the various stages of its However, my constituents are concerned not just by development plan. That should hugely help authorities the number of houses, but by the location of the new to present to the inspector a timely local plan, which is houses. They have to be put in the right place, particularly more likely to be judged sound. Critically, that would considering designations such as areas of outstanding avoid further delay caused by the plan having to go natural beauty. It seems that those who are most logically back to the drawing board locally. The mentor inspector placed to receive recommendations on where new would always be different from the inspector who would developments should be sited are the current residents. eventually consider the plan, to ensure impartiality and They know their communities inside out and know avoid judicial reviews. where a new development would be best sited. An example in my constituency is in the parish of That process would work by an authority being allocated Kingswood, which is under the authority of Stroud an inspector, and thereafter, a timetable for agreed district council and was identified in the Communities actions to complete a plan being set by the mentor and Local Government Committee report. It is currently inspector and the authority. That inspector would then facing an application at Chestnut Park, which is at one be obliged to report back to the Secretary of State if of the highest points of the village, with fantastic views they felt that the timetable was seriously slipping. It over the AONB, which would be diminished by a housing would then be for the Secretary of State to take any development. The parish council has diligently produced action that he saw as necessary to ensure that good a comprehensive village design statement, which identifies progress was made with the local plan. I would be alternative sites for development. However, due to the grateful if the Minister considered that. It would be a fact that Stroud district council does not have an adopted carrot-and-stick approach, but after all, all authorities 367WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 368WH have had at least four years’ notice that they need to 106 agreements to pay for community infrastructure. have plans adopted, yet some are still a long way from No more than five section 106 agreements will be allowed that objective. to pay for the same project. That could prevent important Another resource issue faced by local planning authorities services from being provided to towns and villages, such is that they need a number of professionally skilled as new schools, doctors’ surgeries, libraries and so on, people, such as landscape architects, town planners, which are required as a result of new development. I heritage experts and so on, all of whom have specialist know that the community infrastructure levy is intended knowledge. I was pleased when the Cotswold, Forest of to pay for those types of projects, but yet again, I Dean and West Oxfordshire district councils and understand that it will apply only when the local authority Cheltenham borough council struck a deal recently to has an adopted local plan—another example of how pool their back-office functions, saving an estimated not having a plan in place is really handcuffing local £5.5 million a year. Although not yet agreed, I believe communities. that the arrangement will mean that between them, they Will the Minister consider strengthening guidance to can employ people with the necessary skills, so that they ensure that applications receive only permission if will not have to spend a lot of extra money on outside guarantees are put in place that the necessary infrastructure consultants when drawing up local plans. will also be delivered during the course of the development? Related to that point is the duty to co-operate, which If that does not happen, the indigenous population will is rightly stipulated in the NPPF. The Cotswolds is a suffer because of the new development, and that will district that shares its borders with 10 different local create even more disquiet when further development is authorities, some highly rural, such as North Wiltshire, proposed. and some urban, such as Swindon borough council, Finally, I want to touch on protections for AONBs therefore making planning matters even more complicated. and conservation areas, which I appreciate the Government I would be grateful if the Minister touched on how we recognise as important, but which, I believe, are not can ensure that the duty to co-operate is more clearly being given sufficient weight by appeal inspectors. Roughly defined. 80% of my constituency is located within the Cotswolds I want to mention two additional factors, beginning AONB, which is hugely important not just to me and with infrastructure requirements. I have already mentioned my constituents but to the country as a whole. I have an application—or rather, an aspiration at this stage—for already referred to the Cotswolds as a jewel in the UK’s 2,350 houses proposed at Chesterton on the edge of crown, and I would be grateful to receive reassurances Cirencester. However, the infrastructure there, particularly from the Minister that due protection will be granted to the roads and the sewerage network, is already at breaking AONBs. point and simply cannot cope with such a large new I suggest that the Minister should ensure that NPPF development. We have already experienced dreadful guidance states that equal weight should be given to water and sewerage problems during the flooding in social and environmental issues as is currently given to 2007, 2012 and 2013. Building 2,350 new homes, without economic development issues. That would have a positive adequate additional infrastructure, would simply exacerbate impact in ensuring that the most important landscapes, that problem further. Indeed, Thames Water, at a recent which many enjoy, are not damaged beyond repair. meeting and in a follow-up letter from the chief executive, has explicitly stated to me that a new sewer would need I will conclude now, because I know that others want to bypass the existing Cirencester sewerage network to contribute. I look forward to hearing from the Minister catchment if the development were to go ahead. about assistance for councils that have not adopted local plans, and about my suggestion of a mentoring-type I would like to take this opportunity to put on record scheme. I would also be grateful to hear from him about my strong belief that water and sewerage undertakers infrastructure concerns, the protection of AONBs and should always be statutory consultees in the planning the other important matters that I have raised. process, alongside the Environment Agency and bodies that have that status. Water undertakers are critical for new developments, so they should be involved at the 1.51 pm core of the process. Some might say that that would slow the process down, but I believe that the opposite Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con): It is a would be the case; rather, it would concentrate minds pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. on what infrastructure was actually needed. I refer to my relevant entries in the Register of Members’ There is the same problem throughout the rest of the Financial Interests. It is also a pleasure to follow my Cotswolds, and I am sure, throughout the country. For hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey example, in Moreton-in-Marsh, a town that has faced Clifton-Brown), who is a good friend. He spoke with an increase of more than 30% in its housing stock since great knowledge and expertise. 2011, infrastructure improvements are desperately needed. I am glad to see the Minister here. I start by saying The main road bridge into the town already cannot well done to him and his colleagues for the good work cope with two heavy goods vehicles crossing it at the done overall on the national planning policy framework. same time from opposite directions; it certainly will not It is worth remembering how complex and unwieldy the be able to deal with the additional traffic from new system had become before the NPPF was introduced. housing. The NPPF states that infrastructure provisions No one I speak to, whether they be officers, members of must be central to planning applications, but there is local authorities, developers or members of communities, not enough evidence of that. really misses the plethora of regional strategies, The problem will be compounded by the introduction supplementary planning guidance, planning policy of the new community infrastructure levy on 5 April statements and guidance and all that went with that. 2015. That will limit the amount of pooling of section That change was profoundly important. 369WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 370WH

[Robert Neill] need to adopt a carrot-and-stick approach to ensure that all authorities have a local plan adopted as soon as The sense I get from talking to people across the possible. sector is that they want a period of stability while the NPPF beds in. Sensible changes and refinements can be Robert Neill: That is absolutely right. As someone made, but that is rather different from wholesale upheaval. who served on a local authority for 16 years, I know my I suspect that those who want to bring forward housing hon. Friend is also right that often there is confusion and business premises, and the infrastructure that goes about where responsibility lies. The Government have a with them—my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds legitimate role here, which is why I said that while we was right to refer to the need for infrastructure to be should have stability in the policy, it is possible to make linked in fully with development—will want a period of tweaks and refinements that reflect our experience as policy stability, during which they can invest. There we go along. I have an example: there seems to be broad were a few myths when the NPPF first came in, but by agreement among people involved in this area that local and large they have been proven to be just that. My hon. plans should be more concise; they ought to give the Friend made a fair point about the need for consistency strategic view. More prescriptive matters could be more in the inspectorate, but the Minister, his predecessors sensibly handled in the neighbourhood plans now being and others have worked hard to try to achieve that, and brought forward. I am optimistic that quality control is improving I am glad to see that the Minister and his Department significantly. have made more resource available to assist in the It is sometimes forgotten that although the NPPF development of neighbourhood plans, which should be was radical in many ways, it built on what we had given more emphasis. I do not expect him to reply to before. As my hon. Friend said, it is a plan-led system, this now, but it might be worth his considering the fact and we have reinforced that, with the plan central and that eminent practitioners have asked me, “Why, for a fundamental to the construct. There has always been local plan, do we need much more than a proposals a presumption in favour of development in our planning map, the five-year land supply statement and a short policy, and the presumption in favour of sustainable document setting out the strategic priorities for the development is a central part of the NPPF. Perhaps area?” If we could slim the plans down to something those of us who had a hand in its construction did like that, that would be a good means of speeding up that deliberately, but we built on what was already the process. there in the 1948 legislation, which said that there was a The mentoring idea mentioned by my hon. Friend presumption in favour of development unless rational the Member for The Cotswolds is well worth consideration. considerations indicated otherwise. The Planning and Of course, that may cause resourcing issues in the Compulsory Purchase Act 2004 added a reference to Planning Inspectorate, but the Department has been sustainable development. We took that idea, built on it, keen to make more advice available to local authorities and put it much more centre-stage in a simplified, to speed up the adoption of plans. A similar issue slimmed-down document, so communities who have sometimes arises when there is an inability to complete legitimate sustainability-related grounds on which to the local plan owing to dispute between neighbouring resist development should have no fear. authorities on how to apply the duty to co-operate. I want to raise a few issues that come up when I talk That is particularly the case where one local authority to people. The point about the importance of having a has a tight boundary that reflects an urban area and plan has been made, and I am sure that the Minister will virtually all the growth and expansion is taking place in update us with the latest figures on adoption of plans neighbouring authorities’areas. How can that be reconciled? by local authorities. There is concern. In some cases One suggestion is to have a specialist team in the that may be because local authorities have not invested, Planning Inspectorate that arbitrates in such disputes. and in other cases that may be because they did not That would fit quite neatly with the mentoring suggestion have capacity or—let us be frank—the political will to my hon. Friend made in relation to other matters. That take the tough decisions involved. is a practical measure we could take, which would not be terribly costly. The whole point of localism is that if power is It is also worth considering whether we should have handed down to local authorities, they must be prepared further carrot as well as further stick. A local authority to take the responsibility that goes with it, which means can get the new homes bonus, which is significant, reaching decisions on tough matters such as what whether it approves the planning application in the first development goes where in their area. Perhaps we at instance or not. It might concentrate minds if the bonus Westminster can ensure that the plan development process was not automatically paid, or paid at the same level, if is as simple as possible. It is easier than it was, but many permission was granted on appeal. That might not be on both sides of the fence in industry think that further popular with my friends in the local government world, simplification might be possible. If that could be done and I do not think that that should be done until while sustaining the adoption rate of plans, that would up-to-date plans are in place, but that might be an be helpful. appropriate spur to rational and evidence-based decision making in cases where a local authority has refused Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: I fully understand that local permission despite having an up-to-date local plan that authorities should face consequences if they do not is consistent with the development proposal. have a local plan. The problem is that local people On the other hand, more positively, is there more that suffer when the planning system does not work, but on we can do to encourage local authorities to band together the whole they blame not the local authority, but the and pool the resources of their planning departments? I Government for the system. That is why the Government think that the answer has to be yes. Many of the district 371WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 372WH councils in this country have quite small-scale planning Minister has done excellent work to put in place practical operations, and they often struggle when confronted measures to deliver housing and other planning supply with the scale of the resources that a major developer measures. Hon. Members have heard me say this before, may be able to bring to bear. We should follow on from but one thing remains unfinished business: pretty much the joint working that we are doing in other areas of all the experts to whom I speak say that they do not local government—my hon. Friend cited a good example want major change to the planning regime and the involving his local authority and its neighbours—and NPPF, but say that if there is an opportunity for a piece consider more pooling of planning departments. Just as of legislation in the next Parliament, what they require we talked about a means of resolving the disputes is a comprehensive reform of land compensation and surrounding the duty to co-operate, perhaps we could compulsory purchase law. That area lags well behind also encourage more joint core strategies. We have seen the curve in our planning reforms. It is the one area in some of those in Norfolk; Norwich and the surrounding which reform has not yet taken root, and that may be a hinterlands have signed off joint core strategies. There significant block in a number of places. I hope that that must be more scope for that. Perhaps we could give will remain centre stage in the new Parliament, because greater weight to authorities that have adopted such a it would be a logical and practical next step from the sensible and collaborative approach. planning reforms that we have already made. Obviously, the housing supply remains a key issue. I am delighted with the commitment of the Government Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: I could not agree more strongly. and my party to increasing the rate of building. We If we could reform the planning and compensation certainly need to be building at the rate of 200,000 regime, I am sure that our major infrastructure projects—the homes per annum, and I am delighted that the Prime biggest ones, such as High Speed 2, the extension of Minister has announced that we intend to bring forward Heathrow and so on—could be completed in a much the commencement of that work to 2017, and that the shorter time scale to the benefit of the nation. total figure will include 200,000 affordable homes. At the moment, we talk about a five-year land supply, Robert Neill: I am absolutely sure that that is right. which is somewhat out of kilter with the land acquisition There might also be more scope for the use of mediation arrangements that the industry often makes; they fund in relation to projects such as HS2, instead of our their acquisitions over a longer period. Is there merit in rather cumbersome hybrid Bill process. Those are sensible considering a requirement for a broad 10-year housing things, which could work in parallel. On that note, supply that feeds the more specific five-year supply, having reached further agreement with my hon. Friend, without the need for annual updates? There might be I commend the Minister on the work that he has done, scope for that. It happens to some degree, but the and leave him with those thoughts on possible further annual updating sometimes causes difficulty. Can we do progress, building on what I believe is a good start. more forward projection? That would be a refinement, rather than anything that required radical change in 2.5 pm methodology. The robustness of the methodology is absolutely critical. Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD): I am grateful to have the opportunity to raise some planning One area has disappointed many people. It is not easy issues in this debate, and to follow my hon. Friends the to achieve, but we had hoped—I certainly hoped this Members for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) when I was a Minister—that more use would be made and for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill). There of tax increment financing. Things have been a little are echoes of the matters that they raised in the cases slow in that regard. I appreciate that the Treasury has to that I will refer to. I will also talk about planning be involved in such negotiations, and we have to look at problems faced by the Northumberland authority. I the broader macro-economic position. If we are properly shall refer to the village of Warkworth in my constituency, to join up infrastructure with housing, infrastructure but the problems that it faces have been faced, and and other development on the planning side, it is also probably will be faced, by other villages in the vicinity important for the financing streams for that infrastructure of Alnwick, and to some extent by the town of Alnwick to be properly in place, so that the delivery of the itself. Those problems arise because we have the national infrastructure can start in parallel with the development planning policy framework, with its presumption in that creates the demand for it, rather than starting favour of development, but no core strategy. I was afterwards. That is not simply roads and transport interested to hear that in that respect, the problems that infrastructure, but social infrastructure to meet the we have in Northumberland have some parallels with need for more schools, hospitals and other such facilities. my hon. Friends’ experiences. The result is that the During the next Parliament, especially if my party is authority makes decisions in the awareness that the in government, I hope that we will see a restatement of Planning Inspectorate will implement the national planning the commitment to rolling out TIFs more widely. I am policy framework without much regard for the local glad that the development of a municipal bond market considerations that the authority is trying to build into may be helpful, but it is not a substitute for the development the core strategy. of TIFs, which are much more specific to development I will illustrate the situation with cases relating to proposals. We should congratulate the Mayor of London planning applications made by the Duke of on using, in effect, a TIF model with great success to Northumberland’s estates in the village of Warkworth. fund the Northern line extension. That is clear enough A couple of years ago, the Northumberland Estates proof that it can work. made an application for 74 houses. That was subsequently I will say one final thing before I sit down, because I reduced and split into two applications, one for 27 affordable know that other hon. Members want to speak. We have homes, and one for 37 homes. The council planning made a good start, in my judgment, with the NPPF. The committee passed the plan for 27 affordable homes but 373WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 374WH

[Sir Alan Beith] families in the area. Some villages, however, feel that they are having to take too large a proportion of the rejected the plan for 37 homes. That plan was taken to housing sites that are needed in the area. the Planning Inspectorate, which granted the application The planning system must be capable of maintaining on appeal. The 37-home site is now up for sale, with local confidence, and it must not be a system in which planning permission, at a price that is rumoured to be powerful developers cannot be challenged for fear that around £6.2 million. The financial effects of the inspector’s decisions are very unlikely to be overturned on appeal. decision are not insignificant, especially for the That is the situation in which councillors find themselves. Northumberland Estates. Councillors are constantly being advised that there is Since then, another three applications have been made no point in objecting to an application, even when the for a total of 67 houses in Warkworth, which is a circumstances that I have described are relevant, because relatively small village. Local residents have been extremely their objection will be overturned in the appeals process. concerned, not least about the fact that there has been That view is strengthened or made significantly more no single comprehensive decision and no satisfactory serious by the general state of Northumberland’s planning consideration of the cumulative impact of the various department. schemes. Crucial to the planning inspector’s rejection of One feature of Northumberland’s planning department the county’s refusal of the application was the fact that that has been criticised is that a significant number of there was no core strategy in place for the county. applications are rejected contrary to officers’ advice—that I took up those issues with the Secretary of State for is one of the large number of things about Communities and Local Government and he responded Northumberland’s planning process that is criticised in to me on several points. He said that, in his understanding, the report produced for the county council by Deloitte. “Northumberland’s core strategy is nearing its final stages of I would like an indication from the Minister, by letter if development”, not today, of how much significance he attaches to Deloitte’s very long list of recommendations. Deloitte but pointed out: suggests that, if all the recommendations were implemented, “In the interim, the council must rely on the most recent plans it would become more difficult for local communities to for the area.” persuade a council to overturn an unsuitable application, We discussed what weight had to be attached to those because it would effectively count against performance plans. It is fair enough that the local authority should targets. There is good reason for scrutiny of the kind consider the plans that are already in place, but that did provided by the Deloitte report on Northumberland’s not seem to hold for the inspector when he considered planning department, which was made up from the the matter. The old Alnwick district plan by the former planning departments of the six district councils that district council did not seem to be part of his consideration. were abolished against our will when the previous That is unsatisfactory for those who want the application Government turned Northumberland into a unitary to be judged according to proper principles. authority, plus the county planning department. I also explored with the Secretary of State the question The Deloitte report begins: of multiple applications from the same landowner. The “Performance in the Planning Service has been consistently planning system is agnostic or neutral about the ownership poor since the merger of the six district and borough planning of land. I understand why, philosophically, but it becomes services following…reorganisation in…2009.” very challenging for people locally when they see the The report refers to performance being same developer coming back again and again with more “consistently below target and targets set are below national and more applications. That makes the cumulative point averages.” an important one. That is not a happy position for any department to be In his letter to me, the Secretary of State wrote: in, but given that it is in the process of moving to a “The National Planning Policy Framework (paragraph 32) better structure and process, how much weight do Ministers points to the cumulative impact of development on transport as a and the Department attach to implementing all the relevant consideration for planning authorities.” Deloitte proposals in detail? I ask that question because That is fine, but it is only transport; cumulative impact one of the things that county officials and county covers the whole range of relevant considerations, from leaders are saying is, “If we don’t do all these things, our whether the size of a combined development is suited to planning powers will be taken away from us.” They a village to what the impact will be on other services, clearly feel under significant threat. and the extent to which those other services can support Having an unsatisfactory and underperforming planning the development. Cumulative impact is relevant to all department cannot continue, and Northumberland had those things. He went on to encourage local neighbourhood to do something about it, but it would be helpful to have plans as a way in which local people could make their clearer guidance on what might be done. That reads voices heard. We have already heard about some of the into the already difficult process of ensuring that villages difficulties in achieving that when we still do not have a such as Warkworth—there will be others—can have core strategy in place. their voice heard and have confidence that the proposals will be judged on merit, and not according to the need Local people felt that the system was significantly to meet approvals targets, or the national planning weighted against them, and that the presumption in policy framework’s presumption in favour of development. favour of development—I suppose they thought it was all well and good, but even so—did not allow for proper consideration of local people’s concerns and reservations 2.14 pm in such circumstances. Some villages in my constituency Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): As always, it is a recognise that they need more housing if they are to pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. survive, maintain local amenities and retain local young I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for The 375WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 376WH

Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) on securing this could appeal against every conservatory and extension, timely debate. Planning, of course, always raises controversy, but in certain circumstances—one being the lack of a and my constituency, like the Cotswolds and elsewhere, local plan—there should be the right of objection to is no exception. major developments. I note that my hon. Friend the The ministerial foreword to the NPPF by the then Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris) Minister with responsibility for planning, my right hon. subsequently secured a debate on that subject in this Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), Chamber, and the Minister responded. My hon. Friend states: put forward a case similar to my own—that there should be rights of objection—but in his response, the Minister “The purpose of planning is to help achieve sustainable development. Sustainable means ensuring that better lives for spoke glowingly about consultation and so on, saying ourselves don’t mean worse lives for future generations.” that the Government’s aim was to ensure that everyone had a clear local plan and so on. The foreword goes on to talk about the demands for growth. We all want to achieve growth, but it has to be However, as my hon. Friend the Member for The done in such a way as to satisfy existing residents. Cotswolds pointed out, it is when there is no local plan that people feel particularly angry and lacking in any My constituency is particularly badly affected at the sort of involvement or influence in the system. We all moment, because the roughly three quarters of the know of such circumstances, not just where a local plan constituency that comes under the auspices of North is lacking. Many developments have gone ahead in East Lincolnshire council has no up-to-date local plan. areas particularly susceptible to flooding, for example, That was debated in this Chamber about a year ago, where the advice from local people, drainage boards when the previous Minister with responsibility for planning, and the like was, “Under no circumstances must you my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford develop there.” Planners have come along and said, (Nick Boles), described the fact that my local authority “That’s fine; we’ve consulted with the Environment had taken some six years to produce a local plan in Agency and all these experts,” but the experts on the colourful terms: ground, such as the local farmer who has seen that field “World wars have been fought and won in the same amount of flood decade after decade, have been ignored. If local time.”—[Official Report, 29 April 2014; Vol. 579, c. 205WH.] people were much more involved—if the farmer and the That attracted a headline in the local paper, and I am drainage board had the right of appeal in certain sure the Minister will make an equally good response circumstances—the system would be greatly improved. that draws headlines. I recognise the moves made by the Government on The Government have achieved a great deal through localism. Neighbourhood plans are welcome. Waltham localism, and neighbourhood plans spring to mind. It is parish council in my constituency is consulting on its a question of balance and whether we are giving our local plan at present, and is doing a fine job, but again, communities sufficient say. Most would say not, but although such consultations are important, they involve they only say that when a particular proposal is detrimental a relatively small number of people. We must explore to them, their village or the part of town in which they ways to involve more people in shaping their own live. For the rest of the time, they are happy to turn a neighbourhoods, not just by going to a few meetings, blind eye and say that it is for the next parish, ward or making presentations and so on, but by giving them whatever it happens to be, but major applications can real power to shape the area that they live in. Realistically, completely change an area’s character. Over a fairly that can be achieved only by votes and rights of appeal. short period, a semi-rural suburb can become part of I notice that paragraph 17 of the framework says that an urban area. It is only right that local people should “planning should be genuinely plan-led, empowering local people have much more say on such developments. to shape their surroundings”. In recent years, the role of councillors has diminished I am sure that we would all say “Hear, hear” to that, but in some respects, particularly under the previous the system, although improved, is still creaking. People Government. Members will recall that there were targets still feel left out and not involved. I appeal to the for planning decisions taken by officers, so the role of Minister to give serious consideration to limited rights elected representatives and the involvement of local of appeal. people was therefore much reduced. Local people felt that they had no voice whatever. We all know that 2.23 pm consultation is fine, but what people really want is an actual say. They expect their local councillor to have a Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): It is a say on planning applications, and by “say” they mean a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first vote. Will he put his arm up for or against a particular time, Mr Turner. I congratulate my neighbour and hon. application? I recognise how difficult it is. I spent 26 years Friend the Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton- as a councillor, and planning issues were almost always Brown) on securing this important debate. The national the most difficult to address, which to some extent is planning policy framework is one of the most provocative because people only become aware of, and get involved issues in my constituency, so I have held a number of in, a decision when it is too late and too far down the debates on the issue here and in the main Chamber, road to stop. tabled many questions and met the Minister, the previous The Minister was on the Front Bench a couple of Minister and the one before that. months ago when I moved a ten-minute rule Bill to I thank the Minister not just for being here but for allow objectors to have the right of appeal to the having an open-door policy that allows all hon. Members Planning Inspectorate in certain circumstances. I recognise to meet him regularly. I am afraid that whenever he gets that that right has to be limited and that the whole a request from me for 10 minutes, he sighs and thinks, system would completely grind to a halt if objectors “Oh no—not him again,” but it reflects concerns that I 377WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 378WH

[Mr Laurence Robertson] the developer would have built those houses. That is how developers make money; they do not make it in any have. I echo what has been said: I think that we have other way than by building houses. If there had been moved the planning system on in a welcome direction. demand—if they thought they could have sold the It is not always appreciated, as several hon. Members houses in those five years—they would have built them, have said, that this Government did not introduce the but they did not. I am concerned about the five-year presumption in favour of development or the Planning land supply application policy—not only the principle, Inspectorate, which my research suggests started to be but the way in which it is being applied. developed in 1909. If there is a five-year land supply in a village, and if it Having said all that, there is a misconception among needs meeting—those are two big ifs—it is not likely to the public, as previous speakers have said, about what is be met by 50 houses here and 30 houses there, but what actually going on. It is caused partly by some of the those 50 and 30 houses often do is to make those uncertainties about the five-year land supply calculation, villages unsustainable. They do not have the infrastructure, for example, to which I will return in a minute, and the shops or the roads to support them, and it causes an partly by some councils’ misunderstanding of the policies. awful lot of problems for people who live in those areas. Also, the inspectorate has been inconsistent and applied I mentioned interpretation by inspectors. In an appeal some strange policies that do not seem to represent allowed at a village called Alderton in my constituency Government policies. As a result, people in my area are about a year or 18 months ago, the inspector discussed concerned about what is going on. the lack of the five-year land supply, and actually said My local council, Tewkesbury—although my that the council might have to compromise areas of constituency covers other areas as well—is involved outstanding natural beauty when finding places for the with Cheltenham borough council and Gloucester city houses. In my understanding, that is completely contrary council in coming up with a joint core strategy, which to Government policy—if it is not, it certainly should has still not been agreed or finished. As my hon. Friend be—and yet the inspector is allowed to make that kind the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) said, the of comment. second world war would have been started, fought and That particular land was not an AONB or green-belt finished in the time that they have been trying to pull land, but that comment was made and subsequently it together that joint core strategy. There is no excuse for will be referred to in future appeals and assessments by that; they should be further on. inspectors. So, as well as clarifying the five-year land I am concerned about some of the things that are supply issue, the Government need to look at the reports happening and some of the speculative applications being produced by inspectors to ensure that they reflect being made, particularly in villages. The village in which the Government’s policies. I live has just been allocated 24 houses, which I think is I know that one or two other hon. Members wish to a sensible application that the borough council was speak, so I will not go on too long. I just wanted to right to accept, but there are pressures for more and make those two points in particular. I will make one more houses, not only in that village but a lot of other further point, which perhaps stretches the bounds of villages, which is upsetting people greatly. They do not the debate a little but relates to planning. mind organic growth or taking a fair share of housing, A while ago—in fact, it has probably always been the but they do not want planning to be run by appeal. case—parish councillors were required to register their They do not want the inspectorate effectively to reduce interests. However, I knew of a number of parish councillors localism by saying, “You will have 50 houses there,” or who resigned from their positions because they had to 100 houses. register the interests of their spouses or partners. Parish The reasons given by the Planning Inspectorate often councils do not make decisions on planning; they can involve the five-year land supply. In a recent report on express an opinion, as anybody can. The people who an appeal that it allowed at Stoke Orchard, a small can make decisions on planning are planning officers—not village in my constituency, the inspector openly discussed just councillors, but planning officers—and yet, as I the confusion about how to calculate five-year land understand it, there is no requirement for them to supplies. He said, “Well, the council’s saying there’s 3.6, register their outside interests or indeed their family’s but the applicant is saying 2.9.” There is no certain way outside interests. I will not mention names now, but I to assess it. I have discussed this with the Minister have concerns about certain cases and there should be before, but I ask him to come up with a policy or some consistency in this sector, because planning officers calculation that can be used, so that councils know directly make decisions on planning. They may not be what they must do. decisions about 500 houses on a field, but planning I am not altogether certain that it is the right way to officers make certain decisions, and yet there is no assess applications, anyway, although some certainty is transparency about them. needed. For example, an appeal for 500 homes at a There should also be a requirement—I do not think village called Longford in my constituency—a few years there is one currently—that whenever planning officers ago, under the previous Government—was allowed, meet developers those meetings should be carefully with the stipulation that it had to be built within five minuted. Again, that is so that we can have transparency years, which is the normal planning application rule. It and so that people can have confidence in the planning was allowed on the basis that there was not a five-year system, because at the moment, despite the Government’s land supply, but the houses were not built within that best efforts and best intentions, I do not think there is five years, so the applicant had to go back to the council that confidence in the system for a number of reasons, for an extension of the permission. Does that not which I have covered. demonstrate that there was not as much demand for I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response to housing as the inspector suggested? If there had been, the debate. 379WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 380WH

2.32 pm I hope that new guidance would prevent the kind of problems that I have just referred to. I also hope that the Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con): Thank you, Mr Turner, Minister who is here today will take the opportunity to for calling me to speak. clarify what progress has been made on the new guidance We need a planning system that puts local communities and when it will be issued. Perhaps that is something first. Local people, not developers, are the most important that the written ministerial statement that will be issued voice in how our towns and villages grow and develop. later today will refer to. Government Ministers understand that now more than I said that I believe the Government now better ever before, as I know from the many meetings that I understand that we need a planning system that puts have had with the Minister who is here today—I thank local people first, and I want to express my thanks to him for his patience in that regard. Indeed, I also thank Ministers and the Secretary of State for issuing an his predecessor and his predecessor’s predecessor, because article 25 notice just two weeks ago regarding two the issues that have been challenging my constituency applications for developments of well over 200 houses regarding unsuitable planning applications have persisted at a site on Padgbury lane in Congleton. I believe that for years. fear of the costs of an appeal to the Planning Inspectorate Although I believe that Ministers now understand led local council officers to recommend approval of the concerns and pressures in my constituency, sadly completely inappropriate applications. I also believe the Planning Inspectorate does not. Too many decisions that it was the article 25 notice, for which I again have been made that have had a negative impact on my thank Ministers, that strengthened councillors’ hands constituents. I will give just two examples. to go against that recommendation and refuse those First, in Sandbach now we have consents for hundreds applications. of houses on the wrong side of the town. That will The sword of Damocles of the expense of an appeal mean that hundreds of families have to commute and should not have resulted in a completely inappropriate travel through the town to get to, for example, the M6, recommendation by planning officers. Those applications which is on the other side of the town, and Crewe are in the wrong place and should not be allowed to go station, which is not that far away from the town. The forward, but of course developers do not go away. What impact on the local road network alone will be major. is happening now is exactly what hon. Members have Secondly, in Congleton, the staff of more than one referred to today. There are multiple applications for school are saying to me that because of the hundreds of that site at Padgbury lane, which is why I have now had properties that are being built or will be built, there is to write to the Secretary of State to ask him to recover now a severe challenge for school places. Yetthe appropriate two further appeals relating to the same site. I hope that forethought and foresight has not been put into the the Secretary of State and the Housing Minister, who is impact that the developments, once they are consented here today, will take a similarly robust view when considering to, will have on local school places. that request. Those are just two of many examples I could give, so I also have to make a similar request for the call-in of I concur with many of the concerns that my hon. Friend an application for more than 100 houses in the village of the Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) Goostrey. The Minister and I have had correspondence expressed in his excellent speech and the suggestions about Goostrey before. It is adjacent to Jodrell Bank, that he made. As the Minister is aware, I and many which is now leading on the international Square Kilometre residents in the Congleton constituency have spent an Array project and co-ordinating countries across the inordinate amount of energy, time and expense opposing globe. The UK is taking a leading role in the project, innumerable inappropriate planning applications. That and the UK Government have invested tens of millions time, energy and expense could have been better applied of pounds in it. It is absolutely critical that the functioning to far greater benefit for our local communities. of the radio telescope at Jodrell Bank is not affected by My hon. Friend is right—without a local plan in inappropriate housing developments nearby. Incidentally, place, local people are at the mercy of developers. I that was why Manchester university, which oversees the would add that they are also at the mercy of the work, moved its work from the centre of Manchester to Planning Inspectorate, because developers know only Cheshire; it was to ensure that the telescope would not too well what good chances they have on appeal. That is be interfered with by such developments. This is a why on 26 January I supported a new clause that my national issue, and I hope that Ministers will receive my right hon. Friend the Member for Arundel and South request for a call-in of the application for more than Downs (Nick Herbert) tabled to the Infrastructure Bill, 100 houses in the small village of Goostrey and ensure the aim of which was to give local communities greater that that application is roundly rejected. control over planning by abolishing the Planning It is of great concern to residents that, as I have said, Inspectorate. After all, Ministers are Ministers and they continuously have to put huge amounts of time, planning inspectors are officials. The Minister on that energy and resources, and worry, into having to deal occasion—the Minister of State, Department for Transport, with inappropriate applications. We need a system that my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland properly respects the views of local people, not one and The Deepings (Mr Hayes)—said in response that that pays lip service to localism. We need a plan-led the Government would issue new planning guidance to system, and I am delighted that Ministers are now address the problems. He said to my right hon. Friend encouraging neighbourhood plans; in east Cheshire the Member for Arundel and South Downs: alone, 14 are being brought forward. I am also delighted “New guidance will be issued that is stronger and more effective, that those plans are increasingly being taken account of. that defends the interests of local authorities and that prevents However, I support the view of my hon. Friend the the problems he has set out.”––[Official Report, 26 January 2015; Member for The Cotswolds: their impact needs to be Vol. 591, c. 644.] strengthened, particularly where the principal council 381WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 382WH

[Fiona Bruce] The then Minister, the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), rightly got a lot of credit for the has still not got its local plan in place. We need to ensure improvements he made to the national planning policy that we have such strengthened support for neighbourhood framework during the drafting process. I found him not plans. at all Angry of Tunbridge Wells, but an accommodating, The mentor-led system that my hon. Friend talked co-operative Minister in that respect. However, I am about is an excellent suggestion. After I took leaders of afraid that, like other hon. Members, I am disappointed Cheshire East council to meet Ministers some years ago that we seem to have ended up with a rather different to ask for assistance with the development of the local experience in practice, locally, all over the country. plan, those Ministers allocated a retired planning inspector Despite all the great principles, the NPPF does not to work with the council and help it develop its plan. seem to have translated into really thorough localism Sadly, the plan that was formalised as a result of that respecting the wishes of local people, and in many cases joint working was not accepted and is now in suspension. it has not protected the environment. If we are to have a mentor-led system, it must be robust I will focus on the experience of the local green space and must work. designation. That policy is in the NPPF and the Department has now provided helpful guidance on it, to help local councils adopt it. However, adoption is still patchy. In 2.40 pm fact, I think that Cotswold district council and Cheltenham Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): It is a pleasure borough council are the only two councils in Gloucestershire to follow the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) to have adopted the practice and encouraged local and other hon. Members who have spoken, including communities to come forward with green spaces that my neighbours, the hon. Members for Tewkesbury communities, parish councils and so on might want to (Mr Robertson) and for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton- protect. Brown). I congratulate the hon. Member for The Cotswolds Cheltenham borough council has enthusiastically on securing a debate of sufficient length to allow us all adopted that policy. A range of applications was reviewed to make a decent contribution on this difficult subject. by Gloucestershire rural community council, to which I In passing, I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the pay tribute for doing an outstanding job sifting the Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith), since applications and testing the criteria in the NPPF that I may not get another opportunity before he stands applied to the local green spaces. We have some interesting down at the general election. He has made an outstanding applications, including in Marsh lane in St Paul’s, one contribution to Parliament on behalf of his constituents of the least well-off parts of my constituency; Newcourt and our party over an extraordinary period—more green, on the Cirencester road in Charlton Kings; Cheriton than 40 years—and Parliament will be the poorer without park in Hatherley and the open space at Chargrove him. nearby; George Readings park, and parks at Henley Planning ought to have been a reasonably harmonious road and Triscombe road, in Hester’s way; the Victoria issue for the coalition, because although the Conservatives cricket ground in Fairview; and a proposed community and the Liberal Democrats may have had lots of other orchard in Albemarle road in the north of my constituency. disagreements, and although we had to compromise in Many of these are in areas that are not the archetypal areas, we had similar instincts regarding it. We were all Cheltenham of picture postcards of regency villas; in opposed to the old top-down, heavy-handed regional some cases they are areas where people have to work spatial strategies imposed on us by the previous Labour pretty hard to make a living and are not archetypally Government. There were good ideas from the Conservative leafy suburbs. I am really pleased that all areas of town side, such as neighbourhood plans, which many Liberal are using this designation to protect green spaces, including Democrats wished we had thought of first, and ideas those that are particularly important in the most urbanised from the Liberal Democrat side, including the local areas. The coalition should be proud of introducing green space designation, which I helped develop and that policy. which has been enthusiastically picked up by the council However, most of these areas are not imminently in the constituency of the hon. Member for The Cotswolds, threatened by development: communities are rightly as well as by my council and many others. taking a precautionary approach. The most controversial area where there is an imminent threat of development As other hon. Members said, the national planning is in Leckhampton, which local people have been fighting policy framework has certainly improved the accessibility to defend for at least 20 years. My father was the of the planning rules, by reducing them to a manageable co-founder of the Leckhampton green land action group, size. Among its core principles are many promising which was fighting for it many years ago. Applications statements, including that planning should for development there have been repeatedly rejected by “be genuinely plan-led, empowering local people to shape their inspectors. The area was excluded from the most recent surroundings” Cheltenham local plan on all sorts of environmental and should recognise grounds, including its recreational use, landscape, wildlife, “the intrinsic character and beauty of the countryside”, and archaeological interest, among other reasons. It is that it should be about demonstrably special to local people. It is not an extensive “conserving and enhancing the natural environment and reducing tract of land: it only surrounds a couple of lanes in the pollution”, south of Cheltenham. However, people are really fed up—the hon. Member for Congleton described a similar and should experience—with endlessly fighting and winning appeals “encourage the effective use of land by reusing land that has been and fighting off applications, only to have developers previously developed”— come back with ever more applications, regardless of in other words, brownfield land. the judgments made. 383WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 384WH

The local green space designation should be used to was not appropriate for the local green space to be put say, “Actually, this area is special to local people. It has into the joint core strategy. They were told that it was value for recreation; for amenity; for people’s mental more appropriate for that to be set out in the Cheltenham and physical health; and for absorbing CO2 and particulate local plan. That was not a requirement—I confirmed pollution. It is free and accessible for people who may this with Ministers and the Planning Inspectorate—but be mobility-impaired and for those, whether young or the choice of those developing the joint core strategy. old, who could not necessarily climb the Cotswold After the joint core strategy had been drafted—it has escarpment”—into the constituency of the hon. Member now been submitted to the Secretary of State—people for The Cotswolds—“and is special enough to merit were told that the whole area still could not be designated that protection so that local people do not have to fight as local green space because any subsequent designation off the developers for decade after decade.” That is the in the local plan or the neighbourhood plan had to be direction in which the Cheltenham local plan is compatible with the joint core strategy, which had never developing—and indeed the neighbourhood plan being considered the local green space. So it was completely developed by Leckhampton and Warden Hill parish impossible for the local community ever to get that council. designation into the joint core strategy. However, there is another problem: the duty to At the examination in public, I will be arguing that co-operate, which in Gloucestershire is expressed through the joint core strategy—in that respect, at least—is not the Gloucester, Cheltenham and Tewkesbury councils’ compliant with national policy. Those developing the joint core strategy. I am afraid I do not share the joint core strategy have made it completely impossible enthusiasm of the hon. Member for Bromley and for the local community, which was working on this Chislehurst (Robert Neill) for joint core strategies at the issue at local plan and neighbourhood plan level and moment, because our experience of them is bad—let has decades of experience of development being rejected, alone support his idea of a 10-year housing supply rule. to go through a reasonable process of trying to get the That is an horrific idea and would effectively be a area protected. developer’s charter. What are we left with? One option is guerrilla The duty to co-operate and the emergence of a joint action. I contemplated promising Bovis, Miller and core strategy has caused real problems in Cheltenham. the other developers that if they went ahead and The numbers for the whole three-council area are far produced an attractive marketing name for the area, too high: they go well beyond local housing need. I might set up a website called something like Effectively, the other councils have refused to accommodate iwouldnotbuyahouseroundhereifiwasyou.com, where I reasonable requests. To say that tempers have flared is would put the flood risk map, which is one of the putting it mildly. I am afraid that it was a Tewkesbury factors in the area, online under that marketing name Conservative councillor who said: and encourage people not to buy houses there. Flood “Cheltenham had really fought long and hard, very greedily, risk is another issue. A recent flood risk map produced because Leckhampton was the price they wanted to keep.” by the Environment Agency clearly identifies land at He added that Cheltenham was “very precious” about flood risk near Swindon Village, in Leckhampton and the land at Leckhampton. That kind of language being in areas downhill of Leckhampton, such as Warden bantered backwards and forwards is not helpful. Hill and Hatherley, where the flood risk is associated Cheltenham was damned if it did and damned if it with being downhill from that green space. We know didn’t. If it stuck to its guns and refused to participate that green space absorbs floodwater and holds water in in the joint core strategy and lost its case regarding that the land more effectively than any urban area. overarching planning document, there might have been A more attractive option than that kind of guerrilla a developers’ free-for-all and any area that was not action is to ask the Minister whether he will strongly already green belt would probably have been even more request that the Planning Inspectorate respects the core vulnerable. However, if it agreed to the joint core strategy planning principles in the national planning policy it had to put housing all round the edge of Cheltenham, framework. Parliament intended them to be respected, not only in Leckhampton, but in an area of Cheltenham— and the Planning Inspectorate should give due weight Swindon Village, which is in the constituency of the to emerging neighbourhood plans—I completely agree hon. Member for Tewkesbury—where even more housing with the comments that the hon. Member for The is proposed. We have an examination in public due in Cotswolds made on that—and to emerging attempts to May, yet there are already a whole series of planning designate areas as local green space in local plans, as in applications intended to pre-empt the process—the Cheltenham. neighbourhood plan, the local plan and the joint core The Minister should make it clear that the kind of strategy. Local people are again having to rally support chicanery by which the Gloucestershire joint core strategy to fend off yet more speculative applications by developers. team managed to rule out local green space designation The joint core strategy should really have gone through at Leckhampton before, during and after its process is exactly the same process that Cotswold district council out of order and should not be regarded as compliant and Cheltenham borough council have gone through by with national policy. I am not sure whether he will go seeing whether the areas should qualify for local green that far, but it is one detailed way in which we as a space designation, but we got into a really Kafkaesque Parliament will have to give a bit more direction and situation. Before the joint core strategy, local people say, “We intended localism to be a serious consideration were told, “We could not designate the area as local when we drafted the NPPF, adopted it and voted for it green space because that has to be part of the planning in Parliament. We expect the Planning Inspectorate and process.” There could not be a designation before the local planning authorities to respect all parts of the joint core strategy was developed. During the development national planning policy framework, not just the of the joint core strategy, local people were told that it presumption in favour of development.” 385WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 386WH

2.54 pm use. I understand that that was an attempt to tackle a serious national housing shortage, but it is not the Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): I will be appropriate answer. quick. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) on initiating The effect in Richmond borough—I represent half of this hugely important debate on an issue that matters a it and half of Kingston—has been the loss of a staggering great deal to communities across the country. I agree 20% of our office space in the year since the changes very much with his points. I will restrict my comments were made. One in five office spaces have become residential to two points, because much of what I wanted to say in just one year. It is not empty premises that are being has already been said. converted; small businesses are being moved on by landlords for obvious commercial reasons. I do not My first point relates to the debate on the Infrastructure blame those landlords for that, because the upside of Bill, in which my right hon. Friend the Member for making those changes is tremendous, but we are being Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) reminded left in a position where small and medium-sized Ministers that the Conservative party manifesto promised enterprises—the biggest providers of jobs in our that to economy—are unable to find affordable places from “give communities greater control over planning, we will…abolish which to operate. There are other knock-on effects, too. the power of planning inspectors to rewrite local plans”. —[Official When businesses are lost, so is daytime trade. A lot of Report, 26 January 2015; Vol. 591, c. 644.] our traders in small shops are already feeling the pressure He cited other comments in the manifesto, but that was and tell me so regularly. a key one. I have the honour and pleasure of representing a No matter what our views on the record over the past network of vibrant, dynamic communities, and the four or so years, we all have to accept that on a number changes genuinely threaten their future. We do not any of levels, the promise of localism has not been delivered more than anyone else want our areas—in my case, to anything like the extent that communities imagined Barnes, Kew and Ham—to become dormitory zones, might be the case at the last election. I remember but that is the direction of travel as a consequence of talking a great deal in hustings and public meetings this ill-thought-through change. Clearly, many commercial about localism. The promises I made were a reflection premises lend themselves to conversion to residential of the promises being made by the party I belonged to, use, but it is crazy to make that the default position in but in many cases I have had to apologise to those law. Those decisions should rest with local elected people, because we have not gone as far as we said we representatives who know their communities inside out would. and are capable of making informed decisions. Local decisions are routinely overturned by the Planning Inspectorate, even in minor cases. Indeed, the default Martin Horwood: Exactly the same phenomenon is position for many councils is an assumption that they happening in Cheltenham. We recently lost two corporate will be successfully challenged and will have to cough headquarters, both of which have been converted into up. That distorts the decision-making process at local exclusive retirement flats that are not really available to authority level and has caused resentment in communities. local people. It seems to me that, if we are not careful, I know that it has caused resentment in mine, so I was there is a risk that attractive communities such as ours pleased when the Minister of State, Department for are in danger of becoming dormitories. Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), responded so [SIR DAVID AMESS in the Chair] positively. I know my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) quoted this in her contribution, Zac Goldsmith: I very much take the hon. Gentleman’s but it is worth repeating. He said: point. He made a thoughtful speech earlier, all of which “Let me be absolutely clear: if the existing regime is not I support and agree with. That is exactly the point. If satisfactory, as he describes, we will have a regime that is. New his community is attractive, mine is even more so, so the guidance will be issued that is stronger and more effective, that threat is double. We are seeing change happening on an defends the interests of local authorities”.—[Official Report, 26 January alarming scale. A viable community is a mixed community, 2015; Vol. 591, c. 644.] with traders, offices and people, and busy during the I sincerely hope that that happens. day, during the evening and at weekends. There is a risk When can we expect to see the beginnings of that new of communities such as mine morphing into dormitory guidance? Is it likely to be this side of the election? I zones as a consequence of these policies. very much hope so. For the record, I add my support to The current arrangements are clearly flawed. I have the calls of my right hon. Friend the Member for written to the Secretary of State but am yet to receive Arundel and South Downs for the establishment of a an answer. Nevertheless, I strongly urge the Government new community right of appeal against adverse planning to rethink the arrangements that I have just described. decisions that run contrary to emerging neighbourhood or local plans. I hope the Minister will also respond to 3pm that. Mark Field (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con): Much of what I have said has been said by other May I first take the opportunity to thank you, Sir David, Members present, so I will move on to my second point. for allowing me to contribute briefly to the debate? I say I will focus on a recent planning change that has not that not least because I have only just arrived, having been properly thought through and is having a serious had constituency engagements. I congratulate my hon. impact on some communities, particularly my own. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton- Changes to the planning regulations enable owners of Brown) on securing this debate through the Backbench office space to convert it almost automatically to residential Business Committee. 387WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 388WH

I want to draw attention to two issues that affect both effects that the scattergun introduction of residential halves of my inner-London constituency. As the Minister units might have on the commercial attractiveness and knows, the vacant building credit was announced in day-to-day operation of the City as a business centre. November in a written ministerial statement, as part of When introducing the regulations in 2013, the Government a general package of national planning policy changes took a lot of that on board and unequivocally accepted intended to support small-scale residential developers. that case by exempting the City of London, along with The Minister himself has said that the policy changes the central business zone of central London, which “are aimed at providing a clear incentive for brownfield regeneration, includes much of my constituency in the southern half whilst supporting the Government’s policies of protecting the of Westminster. The exemption also applies to the Green Belt and increasing housing supply.” office space in certain other parts of urban Britain. Although that might be the case in many parts of the The potential harm from a residential free-for-all in country—I am sorry that I did not have the chance to the heart of the business capital has not diminished listen to the contributions from leafy Cheltenham, the since 2013. Indeed, the continued growth in London’s Cotswolds or the lush acres of southern Cheshire—the house prices has rendered it even more potent. Recent impact on densely populated areas, such as my constituency, figures already show a worrying decline in the availability has been greatly underestimated. of office space in the centre of the capital, yet the Currently, affordable housing contributions are calculated Government published a consultation last summer according to the total number of residential units proposed proposing to introduce the permitted development rights in a redevelopment. The effect of the scheme now in permanent form, without the geographical exemptions proposed is that affordable housing contributions can that currently apply. Will the Minister confirm whether be sought only from a developer of a vacant building on the new regulations will be introduced before the end of any uplift in aggregate floor space as a result of the this Parliament? Will he undertake that the conversion development. Basing affordable housing contributions rights will not be extended to the business district of my only on the uplift in floor space, rather than on the total constituency without a full assessment of the likely number of new residential units proposed, will, I fear, impact on its competitive position? The City of London almost inevitably lead to a lower financial contribution corporation and the City of Westminster, to name but from developers to the funding of affordable housing. two local central London planning authorities, would Although the stated aim of the new scheme of helping welcome a further discussion before any irrevocable small-scale residential developers is undoubtedly laudable, decisions are made on this matter. the institutional developers that typically take on large-scale Thank you for allowing me to say a few words, projects in locations such as the City of London or the Sir David. City of Westminster can hardly be said to be that sort of enterprise. 3.6 pm I fear that the effect of the reduced contributions will be to reduce the resource available for affordable housing. Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): By way of example, the City of London corporation is It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, already in line to lose some £3.5 million from a single Sir David. Quite unusually, on Tuesday afternoon, members development that was destined for affordable housing. of the Labour party went through planning issues in Clearly, that cannot be seen as a desirable outcome. In this very Chamber. It is interesting that we have returned his response, can the Minister offer any words of comfort to business as usual; we seem to have these Thursday that the Department will look again at the effect of the afternoon planning debates regularly, at which Government policy changes on densely populated areas such as my Back Benchers raise planning issues from their inner-city central London constituency? constituencies. The other matter that I want to touch on briefly is I pay tribute to the hon. Member for The Cotswolds offices to homes. The permitted development rights to (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) for securing this important convert offices into homes have been a high-profile debate and making a truly excellent speech. I agreed issue, particularly in built-up, central-city areas. I understand with almost every word. He did an excellent job of that there is a need to boost the supply of affordable pointing out that we should be developing new homes housing, particularly in our towns and cities—that is and our communities in line with the wishes of local widely accepted across the board. Indeed, it is in precisely residents, and that if we have a plan-led system, we such areas, with large volumes of empty or outdated should be doing a lot more to ensure that local plans are office space, that the measure would seem to be eminently in place. Indeed, he demonstrated very clearly what sensible. However, the state of play is clearly very different happens when a plan is not in place and local communities in a number of the UK’s leading business districts, feel at the mercy of developers because of the presumption where applying the permitted development rights in favour of sustainable development. He also made an would bring some damaging and unintended economic excellent point about the need to look at resources for consequences while doing very little to free up residential planning departments. In a minute or two, I will address property within the financial reach of many inhabitants. many other issues that were well dealt with in the When the temporary introduction of permitted Communities and Local Government Committee’s report. development rights was under consideration between The hon. Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert 2011 and 2013, compelling evidence was assembled and Neill) made important points about local authorities put forward to show the substantial and significant grabbing the opportunity to develop a local plan and harm that would be threatened if planning protection seeing it as a positive thing, as well as about the need to for office space in the square mile of the City of London simplify plan making. I totally agree with him on that. I were to be removed. It would come in the form of not was pleased that he raised the issue of reforming the only the direct loss of space to housing, but the wider compulsory purchase order system, which the Chancellor 389WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 390WH

[Roberta Blackman-Woods] The Committee said that all land with planning permission should count towards the five-year land indicated he was keen to do some time ago. Will the supply; that might help to address some of the issues Minister say whether he thinks that that is likely to hon. Members have raised. It also said that where happen in the next few weeks? neighbourhood plans support development in the green The right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed belt, and where that is supported by local authorities, it (Sir Alan Beith) gave an excellent example of what should not subsequently be overturned by NPPF happens to villages or other neighbourhoods when a considerations, provided that it is part of a local plan. I local plan is not in place. I really agreed about the need cannot imagine that that set of circumstances will arise to have more transparency, particularly in our land very often, but where they do, that point of view should options system, so that local communities know who clearly be taken on board. owns land, who is selling it and at what price. That The Committee said there should be a more dynamic would be helpful. plan for high streets and town centres. That should sit The hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) outwith the local plan, so that high streets are not set in said we needed good-quality plans that really involve aspic, with it being difficult to make changes; there are local people. If plan making is done properly, local frequently changes to retail and changes of use on the people should have a say over what the local plan high street. The Committee said there is a need to issue contains. Unfortunately, our experience is that that does new guidance on the timely delivery of infrastructure; not happen as often as it should. There is often a degree that would help the hon. Member for Congleton deal of consultation, but not participation, in plan making, with some of the issues she raised. It also believed that and that needs to be reviewed. the Planning Inspectorate should issue a document on the points learned from considering local plans, which I have seen the hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona would be extremely helpful for councils that have still Bruce) raise constituency planning issues in this room a not adopted a local plan. Furthermore, it said there number of times. She made a good point about the need should be a standard approach in guidance to assessing to have appropriate infrastructure in place to support viability, and that we should have an agreed methodology additional housing. She said it can be difficult to get for assessing housing need. community consent if that infrastructure is not there. The Committee made an interesting suggestion, which The hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) would help a lot of hon. Members who have raised raised an important issue about green spaces. He also issues today, when it said there should be provision for raised the problem of getting a designation, which some the partial adoption of local plans. If significant parts of us were probably not aware of. I am sure the Minister of a local plan are not contested, they could be adopted, was listening and will seek to rectify that problem as leaving more time further down the line to consider soon as possible. other issues. The Committee also said the Government As always, the hon. Member for Richmond Park should consult on placing a statutory requirement on (Zac Goldsmith) made an excellent case for more localism. councils to have an adopted local plan in place, and the He also did a good job of exposing what is wrong with Opposition have committed to that. Again, that would the Government’s changes to permitted development help Members with a number of the issues raised today. rights and use classes—a point taken up by the hon. The Committee suggested that the Government consider Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mark what incentives might be necessary to support the duty Field), who pointed out the particular challenges emerging to co-operate, so that it works more effectively. It said in London because of what has happened to section that there should be further clarification of the relationship 106. We have therefore heard about lots of issues relevant between neighbourhood plans and local plans. The to the national planning policy framework. Opposition have been clear that we want to integrate As I indicated earlier, the Select Committee on neighbourhood plans into the plan-making system, so Communities and Local Government did us a great that we start with neighbourhood plans and work up to service in carrying out its detailed review of the NPPF, the local plan, ensuring that neighbourhood plans have which it published at the end of last year. Essentially, its the full weight of the local plan system behind them. I concludes that it will take a number of years for the would be interested to hear what the Minister has to say NPPF to bed in fully, but that there are significant about that. concerns about its operation, which need to be addressed. The Select Committee thought we should review the It argues that we need the system to be adjusted, rather sequential test to see whether it gives enough protection than subjected to a complete overhaul or withdrawn, to town centres. It said that there should be data on and I very much concur. I have made it clear since the land availability, and that it should be updated. It noted NPPF became operational in 2013 that the Opposition that there should not be changes to section 106 agreements are in favour of it; we want to see some tweaks to it, but in the way we heard outlined earlier. In particular, we we would not wish to change it substantially. should not have a system where only five section 106 The Select Committee set out a number of issues that agreements can contribute to a piece of infrastructure. I could be looked at, and it is worth running through know nobody who supports that policy, which leads to them fairly quickly—some were raised by hon. Members, difficulties funding infrastructure in practice, as the and some were not. The Committee said that the loss of Minister is no doubt aware. ancient woodland should be “wholly exceptional”, and The Committee said additional steps should be taken it wants that put in the NPPF. It also said that local to promote neighbourhood planning. It thought we plans should be simpler and more accessible; hon. Members should revoke permitted development changes, particularly mentioned that. In addition, it believes that developers’ as regards A1, A2 and C3. It said local authorities expectations should be set out in the local plan, and should see planning as a front-line service and not that local plans should be reviewed regularly. target it for cuts. The Minister will know that huge 391WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 392WH issues are emerging in the planning system to do with there is a need for more housing. I wholeheartedly agree whether local authorities have the capacity to deal with with my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds planning applications or, indeed, as the hon. Member that if we are to deliver more housing, and to be able to for The Cotswolds said, the resources for ongoing forward continue delivering it in the numbers we want, it is plan making. The Committee said the Government important that those houses are the right ones, designed should see what they can do to strengthen neighbourhood to a high quality, and built in the right place at the right plans, particularly with regard to engaging developers time. in the process. As we know from a number of the plans I am pleased that my hon. Friend and other hon. that have been or are being developed, it is difficult to Members recognise our success in simplifying the planning get developer input, but that is vital. system. I was a member of the Committee that considered The Committee was therefore very thorough in its the Localism Act 2011, on which my hon. Friend the review, and it highlighted a number of issues, which we Member for Bromley and Chislehurst (Robert Neill) can discuss. However, the Government response to its was the Minister, along with the current Minister for detailed report was somewhat disappointing, to put it Universities, Science and Cities, my right hon. Friend mildly, because it did not really accept any of the the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark). My recommendations. For the most part, it seemed that one hon. Friend outlined superbly the importance of the of two answers was given to each recommendation. One change that has happened whereby some 7,000-plus type of answer was, “We do not need to do this, because pages on planning, including the guidance notes, has the system is working very well at the moment, thank been reduced to just 50 pages now. That guidance is you,” or “We are doing this already, and we do not need recommended to all hon. Members wondering what to take on board what the Select Committee says.” I bedtime reading to choose this evening. We achieved paraphrase, rather than giving the Government’s responses that important simplification. to every recommendation, as those are in the document. I always find it interesting—that is the best way I can Alternatively, the response was “We do not agree.” put it, to be as polite as possible—to hear Opposition There were a few warm words about putting a bit more Members giving their thoughts about the planning system support into neighbourhood planning, and linking that and pointing out where it does not work. I say that with to plan making; but outside that, there was nothing of a wry smile because, having been a councillor for 11 years great significance with respect to making local plans and a council leader for about half that time, I well statutory and setting a time scale. remember talking to colleagues across local government—as There are five things that the Minister should do in I do now as a Local Government Minister—about their taking on board the issues raised today, and to deal in a frustration at years of top-down control. We talked more serious way with the issues raised in the report. about the people sent from Whitehall in a suit telling There should be a statutory requirement to produce a them what to build, regardless of whether it was appropriate local plan with an accompanying time scale, so that for them. What happened in that period—apart from communities are not, for lack of one, left at the mercy the financial crash that so heavily hit the building of developers and inappropriate development. There industry and people’s ability to borrow to buy a home—was should be a review of the resources available to local that a stranglehold was put on planning. That is partly planning authorities, so that they can deal adequately what led to rates of building, when Labour left power, with planning issues and plan making. There should be similar to those of 1923. We have had to rebuild from a a common methodology for assessing housing need, to rate of 80,000-odd homes a year being built under make comparisons possible between areas. There should Labour to the present rate of about 150,000. By 2017, be a strong link between neighbourhood and local as my hon. Friends have mentioned, we will hit 200,000. plans. Even if the Minister does not accept our approach, I lambast Labour for its lack of ambition in saying that he should accept the need to clarify the relationship it will do that by 2020. We will hit that kind of figure, on between the two. Lastly, there should be much stronger our current trajectory, in 2017. measures to support brownfield development, including considering what resources can be diverted into reclamation, Roberta Blackman-Woods: Will the Minister give way? to give local builders and developers an incentive to build on brownfield rather than greenfield land. Brandon Lewis: I want to finish this point. I find it slightly ironic when I hear the hon. Lady talking about 3.22 pm how we must link neighbourhood and local planning. The Minister of State, Department for Communities In essence that is correct, and I believe in it. However, it and Local Government (Brandon Lewis): It is a pleasure comes from a party that was responsible for the top-down to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. As many system I mentioned, in which there was little local other hon. Members have done, I congratulate my hon. involvement. It is a party whose shadow Secretary of Friend the Member for The Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton- State wrote to district council leaders last summer to Brown) on securing the debate. He outlined key issues outline some of the things he wanted to do; those who in our planning reforms and the national planning read on to the second page will have realised that he was policy framework. I intend to deal with specific issues talking about taking power away from district councils, that have been raised, as well as talking more generally, in particular, and moving back to a more regionally and I hope to cover pretty much every point that has based system. If they did not like it, they would just lose been raised. After all, I have plenty of time, and I thank their planning power, effectively. hon. Members for allowing me that freedom. Of course, the leader of the Labour party has made I am pleased that the underlying message from pretty clear his ideas about what will happen when there is an much every hon. Member who spoke this afternoon is urban area that wants to build, but it neighbours a rural that, putting everything else aside, we all agree that area without the capacity to take on that development. 393WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 394WH

[Brandon Lewis] it always is when I visit the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) with The duty to co-operate does not mean that it can take her. However, I have to say that Cheshire East is an on that capacity; the development will be forced on the example of somewhere local people are quite right to be rural area. I struggle to see how any area will accept frustrated and irritated at the behaviour of their council that as true localism. It simply is not. It is going back to and its failure to deliver a local plan. a top-down system of control, under which Labour My hon. Friend touched on the fact that Cheshire failed to deliver homes year after year for 13 years. East council had the support of a retired inspector I have sympathy with what the hon. Member for City whom we sent in to work with it. I wish that the council of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods)said about ancient had listened to the advice so that the plan was in a woodland. I talked to the Woodland Trust last week better place. I understand the frustration of residents, about the importance of environmental development. bearing in mind that they can look only next door to When I talk about good-quality development, I want it another local authority that, in the same time frame, to be clear that we want trees and nature to be part of has delivered its plan sound and finished. There is no the environment. I was pleased to hear recently that excuse for Cheshire East’s failure thus far. Barratt Homes has worked out a deal for a secondment from the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, to Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: I am delighted to hear what work with Barratt and make sure that it develops a the Minister is saying about neighbourhood plans. In good environment along with its homes. It is important Cheshire, as in the Cotswolds, a number of communities to move away from the practice of many years of would love to produce neighbourhood plans, but they building big housing estates—nice as some are, with are deterred from doing so by the thought that when the lovely homes in them—where there is one area of green local plan is complete their wishes could be overruled, in the middle, which, after six months, has a sign saying and all that energy and expense that they went to in “No ball games, no children, no looking, no touching.” producing a neighbourhood plan will be wasted. Will I say that tongue in cheek, but the reality on some he give any encouragement to such communities? I have estates is kind of like that. People never get to know been encouraging all of them to produce plans, because their neighbours, because there is no community interaction. an adopted neighbourhood plan is a material consideration An important way to encourage such things is the and can be overruled only for very good reasons. development of communities where retail space is mixed with residential and commercial space, and with good, Brandon Lewis: In short, yes. I will come on to that, usable community space. I am keen for that to happen, but I can very much give my hon. Friend that assurance. as I said earlier this week, in the Ebbsfleet garden city, Even decisions made in recent months back up the in Northstowe and in Bicester, which I visited last week importance of neighbourhood plans and the weight to see the development. It is a great way to move that they carry in the planning system and in law, even if forward, and neighbourhood planning can play a part they are moving ahead of a local plan. I will come on to in that. that in some detail. Hon. Members will appreciate that as a Minister I My hon. Friends the Members for Congleton and for have a quasi-judicial role in the planning system, so I Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) made points that highlighted cannot comment on specific proposals—a couple have the fact that councillors need to remember that they are been mentioned today—or individual plans. However, I there to make decisions; officers are in place to advise will cover the issues touched on today in more general and to implement. Councillors need to ensure that they terms. We all agree, across the parties, on the importance are fully aware of what is being said. I have met a of getting plans in place. They set the framework in number of councillors and leaders involved in planning which local decisions should and must be made. The over the past year or so who have talked about their Government have returned power in plan making to the local plan or a decision, but when I have met them with local level wherever possible. As I have said and my their officers it has been clear that they have not read hon. Friends have mentioned, we revoked the last the legislation, the regulations or the report from the Administration’s unpopular and undemocratic regional inspector. They have simply taken the word of their strategies. We have enabled communities to bring forward officers, who have interpreted things in their own way. I neighbourhood plans, the most important and exciting stress to councillors who are looking at the transcript of development in planning that has happened in this the debate, or listening to us today, that they should country in decades. take the time to ensure that they understand what is going on and that they give direction to their officers. We have reformed local plan making so that inspectors Councillors are the ones who are elected to make decisions. may propose modifications to a plan only if invited to do so by the council. I must be clear about that, given Sir Alan Beith: The Minister is quite right to say that some of the comments that have been made today. the documents must be read, but if the council is being Furthermore, the NPPF strongly incentivises plan making, criticised, as Northumberland has been, for having too encouraging all councils to engage their communities many appeals because it acted against the advice of and put plans in place as soon as possible, and to ensure officers, councillors increasingly feel that they ought to that those plans are kept up to date. Some of my hon. keep quiet and not have much to do with things. Friends have given examples of frustrations that they have encountered in putting plans in place. It has been a Brandon Lewis: Councillors have to make decisions pleasure to hear my hon. Friends talk about some of based on planning grounds, but there are good examples— the issues in their areas. Cheshire East was mentioned, again, Cheshire East is a good one, but I will talk about which I visited in a previous capacity, to attend a public others—of areas where there is a feeling that we need to meeting on planning. It was a wonderful experience, as do more to publicise that. 395WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 396WH

Not that long ago, in Cheshire East, the planning councillors should make themselves aware of all of the inspectors turned down an appeal against the refusal of NPPF, not only the odd paragraph that their officers a development despite there being no five-year land might sometimes drive them towards. For example, supply and no local plan. Although the area in question national parks and areas of outstanding natural beauty is not green belt, it was turned down on the basis of the have a high status of protection in recognition of their importance of the green wedge. Planning inspectors landscape and scenic beauty. The Government attach made a decision based on the environment of that area. the highest importance to the protection of green belt. Members should have some confidence in the fact that Our new guidance in October last year re-emphasised the NPPF is clear about environmental constraints—I that importance, adding that the presence of constraints will come on to specific examples. might limit the ability of planning authorities to meet An up-to-date local plan prepared through extensive their needs. consultation is the best way to ensure that the right development happens in the right place. Such a plan Mr Laurence Robertson: The Minister is making an provides business and communities with greater clarity extremely important point. Some local authorities, on how an area will develop. Plan making has significantly however—this is happening in our joint core strategy improved under this Government. Only 17% of authorities area—will redesignate the green belt when submitting had a local plan in 2010, but 62% now have one, while their local plan or the JCS, so that it is not green belt 80% have at least published their plan and so are at an any more. If that is not a contravention of Government advanced stage. My Department continues to offer policy, I do not know what is. Can nothing be done support to councils on plan making through the Planning about that? Inspectorate and the Planning Advisory Service. I note Brandon Lewis: My hon. Friend makes an important the suggestion made by my hon. Friend the Member for point. A key consideration is that it should not be up to The Cotswolds about having a specific planning inspector us in Westminster to decide what is important to the to mentor a council. I will consider that further, because local area; it is up to the local council. We have put the he made a strong argument. protections in place—we have made it clear that To be clear, given that progress, we have no immediate development on green belt should be exceptional and plan to introduce statutory timetables to get local plans the last resort, and even then should be carried out only in place. Such timetables would lead us into the realms with great care and consideration. If local authorities of unintended consequences, with local officers perhaps make a green belt area a developable piece of land, they wanting simply to tick the local plan box, rather than should do so only as part of a full review and a local taking the time to get the right local plan for their area. plan process. Indeed, there are examples of inspectors This week, however, I have written to 39 local authorities turning down such work if there is not a strong evidence whose plans are now five years old or more, and I have base to show why the local authority wants it. So green urged them to continue to make progress on their plan belt should be redesignated only in exceptional reviews. circumstances and as a last resort. Furthermore, the Plan making can be challenging, because it involves NPPF notes green belt as one of the environmental difficult decisions about how an area will develop in the constraints on development in the framework and local future and about meeting development needs while planning process. protecting sensitive environments and valued green spaces. A core principle of the framework is that planning I have taken on board the points that my hon. Friend authorities should recognise the intrinsic character and the Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) made beauty of their countryside. The characteristics of different on that matter and will get back to him on them, if he landscape and the importance of ensuring that development will bear with me. That is why it is important that local is suitable for the local context should be recognised. As plans should be supported by a credible and robust my hon. Friends have mentioned this afternoon, much evidence base and that a wide range of people should be countryside is loved and cherished by local communities. involved in plan preparation. Plans should be proportionate I acknowledge such concerns, and I will write to the and accessible, and the framework already strongly Planning Inspectorate setting out publicly how the existing supports such objectives. policy should operate, to ensure that it is fully understood We do not ask local authorities to build more homes not only by the inspectorate, but—to go back to my than they need, and we do not tell them how many earlier point—by councils and councillors as well. homes they should build. Our planning guidance I want to be clear that weight can be applied to recommends the use of a standard methodology to help emerging plans, particularly when they are at an advanced authorities assess local housing needs, using secondary stage. However, it would be wrong to give draft or data sources where possible. However, local authorities, emerging plans the same status and weight as finished which are best placed to understand their local needs, plans that have been examined. Otherwise, what will be are given the ability to decide what approach is appropriate the incentive to finish the local plan and get it examined for them, with that understanding of their area. before the community? Decisions based on untested Policy is absolutely clear that need does not automatically draft plans could have lasting and potentially damaging equal supply.I, too, want to be clear about that. Identifying impacts on communities and the environment. housing need is the first step in the process. Local Our policy strikes a careful balance between affording authorities must then determine whether they have sufficient draft plans some weight and ensuring that local authorities land to meet that need. In doing so, they are expected to continue to move forward and bring plans to examination take into account the policies in the framework. In and completion. However, given the concerns expressed effect, stage 1 is the need, unencumbered by policy, and today, I will write to the Planning Inspectorate to stage 2 is about policy and environmental constraints, ensure that that position and the different weighting as clearly outlined in the NPPF. Again, I stress that given to plans as they develop are fully understood. 397WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 398WH

[Brandon Lewis] taken to neighbourhood planning. More than 6 million people are now covered by a neighbourhood planning I fully agree that planning departments should have process. the resources they need to plan effectively, a point made My hon. Friend commented that in his constituency, by Members including the hon. Member for City of neither Cotswold district council nor Stroud district Durham. Councils must give planning the priority it council has an adopted local plan. I recognise that it needs, as effective planning is vital for supporting sustainable may be more challenging to produce a neighbourhood growth in the right locations. A local authority should plan where there is no up-to-date local plan in place. see its planning department as its economic regeneration Other Members have made that point. I will be clear: in department. Local authorities are now benefiting from those circumstances, a made neighbourhood plan can the fact that we increased planning application fees by provide some certainty in areas where there is otherwise 15% in November 2012, which has provided an additional an absence of up-to-date policy. We have witnessed that £32 million per annum for planning services—we often in Arun, Chichester and Mid Sussex, where neighbourhood forget that. That comes on top of the fact that under plans have come into force where there is no up-to-date this Government, local authorities have increased their local plan and the new local plan is still emerging. reserves to some £21 billion, a record level. Local authorities should be working with all communities Good councils and councillors will realise that planning that are developing neighbourhood plans to ensure that is the heartbeat of economic regeneration on two levels. there is effective linking up between local and First, if they want to see growth in jobs, business and neighbourhood plans. Good councils are doing exactly homes, they will need a good local plan that looks not that, with help from Government funding. Where a just at residential planning but at commercial and retail neighbourhood plan has been made, the local planning planning—neighbourhood plans can also look at those authority should take it into account when preparing types of planning—and works as part of a process that the local plan strategy and policies, to avoid duplicating is well planned and well thought through. That is good non-strategic policies set out in the neighbourhood for communities, as it means a growth in the number of plan. homes, and also provides facilities for job growth. It is More than 1,400 communities in England have already also good for the finances of local authorities, because grasped the new power and begun preparing their own of the new retained business rates scheme and the new neighbourhood plan, including eight in my hon. Friend’s homes bonus scheme, both of which reward councils constituency. As I said, that means that the plans are financially. Planning should be at the heart of a local covering 6.1 million people across the country, which is authority, and there is an onus on authorities to think 11% of the population. I want to get to the other 89%, more about how they ensure that they have those resources. so that plans are rolled out and we share best practice. Where possible, they should work together to share That is why I was delighted that this week I was able to resources and specialists—that is particularly important host the first of our neighbourhood planning summits, for the small district councils we see in some parts of to bring together people who have delivered a the country—as they have done on the shared management neighbourhood plan and seen its benefits, how rewarding of other types of services. it is and the power it gives. It is not just that the I will now touch on neighbourhood planning in a neighbourhood can then benefit from 25% of the little detail; it has been mentioned a few times today, community infrastructure levy to spend locally; and I said that I would do so in answer to the intervention neighbourhood planning gives communities power over by my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds. planning in a way that we have never seen localised Neighbourhood planning is one of the most exciting before. innovations of this Government’s localism agenda. It Neighbourhood planning referendums have been was established to devolve power from central Government successful partly because people are beginning to understand not just to local councils but directly to communities just how rewarding the plans can be and how powerful and the individuals living in them—a real devolution of they are for developing their local area. As a result, the power. For the first time, community groups can produce referendums are getting not only a 33% average turnout— development plans that carry real weight in the planning although as I have said, the referendum at Milton system. That allows them to play a much more powerful Keynes on the day of the general election may see that role in shaping the future of the areas in which they live figure go up a little bit—but an amazing average yes and work. vote of 88%. I know that many Members would like A neighbourhood plan can include policies on where that kind of recognition at the ballot box. Six referendums new homes should go, what they should look like, are taking place today. what green spaces to protect and how high streets should be saved. Just today, I visited Milton Keynes, Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: The longer my hon. Friend’s where there is a business neighbourhood plan. It is an speech goes on, the better I like it. In addition to his exciting, adventurous and ambitious proposal that will writing to the Planning Inspectorate, may I urge him to go to a referendum on 7 May. I am not saying that will write to the leaders of all planning authorities about the be the biggest ballot that people will be voting in importance of neighbourhood plans? I have a suspicion that day in Milton Keynes, but I think it will probably that some, including some fairly close to home, are not have the biggest turnout of any referendum on a overly supportive of the plans. I would like to see my neighbourhood plan. Neighbourhood plans have been local authorities fully supporting neighbourhood plans. so well received that we are seeing turnouts in the referendums of about 33%. That is quite an achievement— Brandon Lewis: I am happy to do that. As ever, my many local councils would like that kind of turnout hon. Friend makes a good point, and, if Members will in elections—and highlights how people have really indulge me for a moment, I will give a good example 399WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 400WH why.It concerns making sure that we spread best practice— excellent advice to any parish or town council about something that we in this country could sometimes do how to formulate a neighbourhood plan. That sort of better, particularly in local government. Sometimes we collective working in a county as big as Gloucestershire are too shy of talking about what we do and how well it is a thoroughly good thing. is working. Some areas are doing some really ambitious and adventurous things with neighbourhood planning. Brandon Lewis: My hon. Friend makes an excellent Neighbourhood planning is proving that we are not a point. The Government have been working to roll out a country of nimbys, because it is delivering housing. The series of workshops around the country to enable people system of trusting local people to make good local to come together to hear about the benefit and value of decisions has just delivered an almost record level of neighbourhood planning from people who have done it. housing planning application approvals. Some 240,000 There was one not long ago in Norwich, in my county applications were approved over the last 12-month period. of Norfolk. Broadland district council has done some That is testament to local people making good, well fantastic work in supporting the local community. I see thought-out and well reasoned decisions for their local examples of it everywhere. At the summit on Monday, area. Broadland district council offered to talk to other areas— even those outside Broadland—about the benefits of When I spoke at the inaugural neighbourhood planning neighbourhood planning, and about how to do it and summit on Monday, celebrating the success of how to move it forward in a straightforward way. neighbourhood planning, I outlined and explained the following case. Last summer, I spoke to some parish The issue of speculative development has been raised councillors about the importance of neighbourhood a couple of times today. Members touched on the planning and how to do it. Those parish councillors got community right of appeal, which we went into in some very irate; they explained to me that as I was a Westminster detail in our debate a few weeks ago, so I would encourage politician, I did not understand that they had done all Members to look at that transcript. Where local authorities that locally and that, actually, neighbourhood planning do not have an up-to-date local plan or policies, the had no weight in law. Someone, somewhere had told presumption in favour of sustainable development applies. them that—in one case, it was a council officer. I had to However, that does not mean development at any cost. explain to those people that what they had was a village Speculative development is not acceptable if it is not plan. In one case, it was a nice 21-page document with sustainable development. Decision makers are required half a page on housing, half of which was a photograph to consider all aspects of sustainable development, including of a nice house in the village. That is not a neighbourhood the economic, social and environmental aspects, and plan. I also had to explain that neighbourhood plans inspectors do that. have weight in law. I will give some examples of recent appeals that Neighbourhood planning is not the easiest thing a demonstrate that inspectors sometimes find that community will ever do, but it is rewarding. There has development is unacceptable even in the absence of an to be a robust process because it has weight in law. up-to-date local plan. That relates to my point about Communities that are making neighbourhood plans are making councillors more aware of the decisions that are seeing benefits—not only the 25% of the community actually being made. It is important to remember that infrastructure levy that they get, or the fact that they the proportion of decisions that are made on appeal by have power and involvement in decision making about a planning inspector against a council’s decision has not planning. It is bringing people together and getting changed in a long time—it is still about 1%—which them involved in their communities in a way that, in shows that, in that sense, the system works. many areas, they have never been involved before. All of We will not necessarily prevent developers from doing us, including councillors across the country, know that what they do, which is to try to get something developed, a planning issue brings a community together in one if they think it is profitable for them. However, if there way or another more quickly than anything else. We is an up-to-date local plan in place, and especially if cannot put a price on the social value of getting people there is an up-to-date neighbourhood plan in place, and to come together in their community. It is one of the a developer wants to do something outside those plans, most powerful things to have come from neighbourhood unless it has the support and agreement of the community planning. that should be the hardest thing they ever try to do. It On Monday, I was pleased to outline the Government’s should be pretty much impossible to achieve. ongoing commitment to supporting, simplifying and For example, in Aylesbury Vale, appeals against improving neighbourhood planning, which includes a applications for several thousand homes were recommended new £22.5 million support programme. Neighbourhood for refusal only last month, and the recommendations planning is here to stay.Under a Conservative Government, were upheld by the Secretary of State. Despite the lack it will not go away but will continue to develop. We will of a five-year housing land supply, an inspector considered continue to build on it, and I want to make it as simple that the proposals would have had an adverse impact on and robust as possible. I want to encourage local the character and appearance of the landscape, and communities across the country to get involved. It is were not supported adequately by sustainable transport easy for them to find out more about it. Plenty of areas provision. In Chichester, an inspector concluded that a that have done it are keen to share their good experience. proposed development of 110 homes would be “mediocre” and “unimaginative”, and therefore contrary to the Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: I am sure that my hon. Friend requirements of the framework. Those are just a couple the Minister is aware of this, but I want to refer to of examples. something that my neighbour, the hon. Member for I will ensure that we do more to publicise recent cases Cheltenham (Martin Horwood), mentioned. The very more widely to reassure councils that unsustainable good Gloucestershire rural community council will give development can be resisted. I will also ask the Planning 401WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 402WH

[Brandon Lewis] artificially raised rents to achieve exactly that outcome, so what the Minister says is not strictly speaking Advisory Service to work with local authorities to correct. ensure that our message is clearly understood. The framework does not stand for development at any cost. Brandon Lewis: I would gently say to my hon. Friend It promotes positive planning and sustainable, good-quality that he should not conflate two different things. When I development. was talking about vacant properties, I was talking about I am also aware of the many concerns of local the vacant building credits, to which my hon. Friend the authorities that consider that they have to waste considerable Member for Cities of London and Westminster referred. time and resources in defending challenges to their My hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park is housing supply. We will therefore issue new guidance to referring to section 106 agreements that cover office-to- clarify the operation of the five-year housing land supply, residential conversions, which is a different development which will give local authorities greater confidence in right. I appreciate that there is a difference between the resisting challenges to their evidence, if they have prepared two. If local authorities think there is a specific issue in it appropriately. an area, they can use article 4 directions to deal with I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friends that the that. However, I will take my hon. Friend’s points on provision of timely and robust infrastructure is vital to board. delivering sustainable development. National policy and I am extremely grateful for the forthright debate that guidance already set out clear expectations for securing we have had today. infrastructure provision in the planning process. Local authorities already have a range of legislative tools to Sir Alan Beith: I appreciate that the Minister may not deliver that in a timely and transparent manner. be able to respond on how Northumberland is to deal Furthermore, the cumulative impact of development with the criticisms that have been made of its planning and the need for infrastructure to support development department, but can I have his assurance that he will are material considerations in deciding whether individual write to me about that? applications should be approved. I hope councillors will make themselves aware of that. Brandon Lewis: Yes. Part of the reason why I cannot My hon. Friends the Members for Richmond Park comment on any particular plan is because of the (Zac Goldsmith) and for Cities of London and Westminster quasi-judicial process, but I will make sure my officials (Mark Field) raised issues about the section 106 changes, liaise with the right hon. Gentleman. permitted development rights and the Government’s recent consultation, to which we will respond shortly. Fiona Bruce: I sense that the Minister is about to The vacant building credit applies to non-residential reach his peroration. I would like to return to the issue buildings, and the relief is intended to reflect the often that my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park high costs of conversion and refurbishment that are (Zac Goldsmith) and I raised. The Minister of State, associated with bringing existing buildings back into Department for Transport, my right hon. Friend the use. One of the points that I would have made to Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes) Westminster council, if it had contacted us directly—I committed to issuing new planning guidance when we have said this elsewhere—is that the buildings were withdrew our amendment on 26 January. When the vacant, so the authority’s argument that it is losing Minister said that new guidance would be issued, was money does not stack up. The buildings are not currently that the guidance that he was referring to, and, if so, in use and are not proposed to be used for anything. what is the time frame? Therefore, they are new, fresh opportunities for residential use. However, I will write to my hon. Friend the Member Brandon Lewis: Before I respond to that, I see that my for Cities of London and Westminster with full details hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and about how the process works, and I am happy to meet Westminster wishes to intervene. Let me take that him and/or the local authority to go thorough the intervention, then I will deal with both issues together. issues. On the issue of permitted development rights, he is right that there have been exemptions for parts of Mark Field: I was keen to get some guidance and, London. hopefully, assurance from the Minister on the exemptions On the comment made by my hon. Friend the Member that are in place. Is his Department now keen to sweep for Richmond Park about section 106, I will say two away all exemptions regardless, or given the still uncertain things. First, I have a great deal of sympathy with the economic times in which we live, is there an understanding arguments. We looked at that issue as part of the that there is still a need to ensure—particularly in consultation, and I will deal with it when we respond. I central business districts, such as the City of London, am sympathetic to why the exemptions were put in parts of Westminster and the royal borough of Kensington place, and I understand their importance for the and Chelsea—that we do not have a rush towards strategic commercial work spaces that we have in developments that turn vital office space into residential London. That is why those protections were introduced. space for short-term economic reasons? I appreciate that there is a strong argument that nothing has changed. Brandon Lewis: As we have not yet responded to the consultation, it would be presumptuous of me to give Zac Goldsmith: I do not know the stats for Westminster, my hon. Friend a direct answer stating exactly what we but in Richmond the majority of the units that have are doing. However, the exemptions were put in place been converted so far have not been empty. They for a very good reason. The case was made at the time, were occupied by businesses that were pushed out by and that is why they were there. 403WH National Planning Policy Framework5 MARCH 2015 National Planning Policy Framework 404WH

I have sympathy for the point made in some corners—my delivering real results. We are seeing positive economic hon. Friend has said this today—that nothing has changed, growth as part of the long-term economic plan, while and that the exemptions will still be important. We have retaining the environmental safeguards that have long always said, as I have openly and publicly, that we been part of our country’s planning system, and that recognise the strategic importance of office space in protect what we cherish and want to continue to enjoy. some parts of London in particular. I go a bit further actually; I spoke at a conference some months ago and 4.3 pm gave the examples of the City of London, and, I think, Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: May I thank you, Sir David, Canary Wharf, as areas in which the exemption applies, and Mr Turner for so graciously chairing today’s superb and the logic of that continuing to apply is very strong. debate? I wish the public saw more such debates on I did say that they were just examples, yet a story came technical, difficult subjects. Ten colleagues participated out in the press the following day saying that only those in it, and if the public saw more of the working of two places would be getting the exemptions. Parliament, I think they would hold us in higher regard. My point is this: again, I understand why the exemptions I thank all the Clerks and the Hansard Reporters, and are there. I appreciate and have sympathy for the case I thank the hon. Member for City of Durham (Roberta that has been made, which is that those exemptions still Blackman-Woods) for her gracious remarks to me. She have the same validity today as they did then, but my said a very important thing in welcoming the introduction hon. Friend will have to wait for us to respond to that of the NPPF. That remark will be widely welcomed consultation. I am very happy to meet him and any around the country, because that gives us certainty in representatives from the City of London or elsewhere in the planning system, which is really important. his constituency who would like to see us about it. I have spoken to the Mayor’s office—we have been working I repeat what I said about my hon. Friend the Minister. with them on this—and I am very happy to meet I am incredibly grateful to him for being here, because I representatives from the City of London as well. My know he has a busy schedule. Some of his remarks hon. Friend the Member for Congleton asked about today were incredibly important, in particular those on guidance. In terms of time lines, any guidance we put neighbourhood plans. They will be heard widely around out will be in the next few weeks, so she can have some the county and will give a big fillip to communities, so confidence that it is relatively imminent; she was quite that tomorrow more of them may consider whether right. they could introduce a neighbourhood plan. I warmly welcome the Minister’s offer to write to the Planning Much as my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds Inspectorate and leaders of local authorities to clarify tempts me with his comments that the longer I speak, certain matters relating to local plans, such as the the more he enjoys it, I shall not keep hon. Members weight to be given to them and to the five-year housing too much longer. I thank hon. Members for their strong, supply, as mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member thoughtful and forthright comments today about planning for Congleton (Fiona Bruce). reforms, and for their compliments, not only on the meetings we have had, but on the work done by Ministers I also pay warm tribute to the right hon. Member for over the last few years to make sure that we have a Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith). As the hon. planning system that people can understand and be Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) said, this involved in. Those are gratefully received. The operation might be my last opportunity to do that. His contribution of the framework and that recognition, from several to the House over the past 40 years has been immense. I Members, cross-party, is testament to the work that was have enjoyed working with him on the Liaison Committee, put in just a few years ago. where I have seen at close hand the quality work that he does. It is too early to assess fully the benefits and impacts, but we are seeing real benefits across our country, not All in all, this has been a thoroughly good debate. I only in the planning permissions that are coming through, will say just one final thing to the Minister: he could not but in the change in the acceptance of development. say this today, but I stress again that those authorities Recent surveys show a massive increase in people’s that do not have a local plan need to be given a bigger acceptance of development and their happiness with it. stick. That is a good thing. There is a real onus on developers Question put and agreed to. to make sure that they are building with good-quality design to continue that work. However, I also appreciate 4.5 pm that alongside our wider reforms, the framework is Sitting adjourned.

65WS Written Statements5 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 66WS Written Statements TREASURY

Thursday 5 March 2015 Off-payroll Engagements

BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): Today, I am announcing the conclusions of HM Treasury’s Contingent Liability Notification (Wholesale Guarantee second evaluation of Departments’ compliance with Scheme) the rules governing off-payroll appointments in central Government. New, tighter, rules were established in May 2012 The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and when I published the review of the tax arrangements of Skills (Vince Cable): The British Business Bank has public sector appointees. This review covers off-payroll been established as an economic development bank appointments from the 2013-14 financial year. supporting small and medium-sized enterprises in the Off-payroll workers play an important role in helping UK. The wholesale guarantee scheme is a new scheme Departments meet short-term needs for specialist advice to be administered by the British Business Bank aiming and interim service. The majority of these arrangements to encourage participating banks to lend more to small will have been in place for legitimate commercial reasons. and medium-sized enterprises by addressing the high However, it is essential that Government Departments capital consumption associated with such lending. are able to assure themselves that their off-payroll workers The aggregate notional amount of the guarantees are meeting their tax obligations. issued by the Department under the scheme is expected The recommendations of the May 2012 review mean to be circa £2 billion, with extension beyond this subject that the Departments’ most senior staff must now be on to further review. This enables the Department to manage payroll, and Departments have stronger powers to seek its risk appetite and limit its credit risk exposure. assurance in relation to the tax arrangements of their As a matter of record I have placed a departmental long-term, high-paid contractors. minute in the Libraries of both Houses explaining the I asked the Treasury to evaluate compliance with procedure followed and containing a description of the these rules on an annual basis. The results of this liabilities undertaken. second evaluation are summarised below. [HCWS348] Below board-level off-payroll engagements The rules for new off-payroll engagements apply where the engagement is for more than six months with a daily rate above £220. All new engagements from 23 August Cape Town Treaty 2012 meeting these criteria must include contractual provisions that allow the Department to seek assurance that the worker is paying the right amount of tax and The Minister for Business and Enterprise (Matthew national insurance contributions and to terminate the Hancock): Last year the Government signalled their contract if assurance is not provided. For any individuals intention to ratify the convention on international interests where their engagement has either been terminated; in mobile equipment and the protocol thereto on matters ended as a result of the assurance process; or ended specific to aircraft equipment, commonly called the after assurance was sought but before it was received, Cape Town treaty, by laying the convention and protocol Departments have been asked to provide personal details before Parliament as Command papers. of the worker to HMRC for further investigation of tax This treaty contains a number of optional provisions avoidance. which the UK can decide whether or not to adopt. BIS In accordance with the guidance, Departments adopted held a consultation on the optional provisions between a risk-based approach in deciding which contractors to June and August 2014. Today I am publishing the seek formal assurance from. In 2013-14, Departments response to the consultation, impact assessment, draft sought assurance on the tax affairs of 2,505 of their implementing regulations and draft guidance. The response contractors and received satisfactory assurances from to the consultation sets out which of the optional 2,248 of these engagements. In 257 cases contracts were provisions the UK intends to adopt. I am also laying a terminated or came to an end before assurance was supplementary explanatory memorandum to accompany received. Further details can be found in the table the Command papers to update Parliament on the annexed. This does not include the Department for declarations the UK will make under the treaty. Education which did not publish its annual report and A short technical consultation is being held on the accounts until 20 January 2015. The Treasury is examining practical effect of the draft regulations. Comments are the Department’s compliance with the guidance and also invited on the draft guidance. Following the technical results will be issued in due course. consultation the necessary regulations will be made to A small number of Departments have made errors in implement the treaty. The treaty will come into effect on how they have reported the information or implemented the first day of the month, three months after the the policy. These include: instruments have been deposited with the International the Ministry of Defence which due to administrative error Institute of Private Law (Unidroit), the depository for failed to seek assurance from a number of workers in 2012-13. the treaty. I will be imposing a sanction of £1 million on the Ministry of [HCWS344] Defence. 67WS Written Statements5 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 68WS

the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) which made CSU being engaged off-payroll for a year or more. In errors in the reporting of the policy and has issued a correction both cases the individuals provided the necessary assurance to its accounts for 2013-14. After further investigation I am to NHS England regarding their tax arrangements. content that DWP has complied with the guidance. This review has encountered instances where an off- UK Export Finance where this review has raised a number payroll worker at board level or with significant financial of concerns regarding implementation of the guidance. I responsibility has been seconded to the Department have asked the Permanent Secretary to the Treasury to from another organisation. Where the full value of commission the Government Internal Audit Agency to carry out an independent audit of the implementation of the payments from the Department to the individual are off-payroll guidance at UK Export Finance, following which put through the payroll of the seconding organisation further consideration will be given to the need for any this has not been treated as a breach of the Treasury sanction. guidance. In addition, where this review has encountered below board-level appointments with significant financial Notwithstanding these issues, the results of this review responsibility that are in place to maintain the delivery suggest that the large majority of central Government of critical and time-limited projects, they have not been Departments are operating the rules effectively. This required to be on the payroll. This is subject to the strict has resulted in a number of engagements, where adequate requirement that all such engagements should be subjected assurance was not provided, being brought to an end to the assurance process to determine that they are and individuals’ details being passed onto HMRC for paying the right amount of tax. further investigation. Referrals to HMRC occurred in all relevant cases across Government, apart from 27 cases The public sector needs to demonstrate the highest at NHS England, where the information necessary for standards of integrity and it is essential that Government referral was not retained by the organisation. This has employers are able to assure themselves that their senior now been addressed by NHS England to enable HMRC and highly paid staff are meeting their tax obligations. to undertake future investigations of individuals where Each Department is responsible for seeking assurance required. as to the tax arrangements of the off-payroll appointees in the Department and its arm’s length bodies, and Board-level and senior appointments judging whether the evidence presented demonstrates The guidelines set out in May 2012 also specified satisfactorily that the appointee is meeting their tax that, regardless of their tax arrangements, board-level obligations. officials and those with significant financial responsibility The fines imposed as a result of this review reflect the should be on the payroll of the Department or other failure of Departments or their arm’s length bodies to employing body. This is unless there are exceptional follow the processes set out in the guidance. However, I circumstances, and such exceptions should not exist for do not believe that less funding should be available to longer than six months. the users of the health service or our armed forces as a result of these breaches, and so I can today announce As a result of the recent review, I can announce that that the Government will be giving money levied from HM Treasury has determined two cases which have these fines to support armed forces veterans and health breached these rules, both appointments at an arm’s charities. length body of the Department of Health. As a result, I The Treasury will continue to monitor compliance will be imposing a sanction on the resource budget of with the HMT guidelines and will conduct a similar the Department of Health of £470,740. review for the 2014-15 financial year. The sanction will be imposed for two breaches at Annex 1: New off-payroll engagements between 1 April NHS England, which relate to the regional director of 2013 and 31 March 2014, for more than £220 per day finance and the director of finance for Central Southern and for more than six months.

Of which: Number of new engagements for Number for whom Number for whom The number whose The number whom assurance was assurance was assurance was contracts came to an terminated as a sought (as of 31 requested and requested and not end before assurance result of non- March 2014) received received was received assurance

BIS2121000 BIS ALBs 197 196 1 1 0 CO 11 11 0 0 0 DCLG 17 17 0 0 0 DCLG ALBs 2 2000 DCMS 30 28 2 2 0 DCMS ALBs 59 58 1 0 1 DECC 13 12 1 1 0 DECC ALBs 24 24 0 0 0 DEFRA 44 37 7 0 7 DEFRA ALBs 26 21 5 0 5 DFID22000 DFT 68 62 6 6 0 DFT ALBs 130 113 17 17 0 DH 23 23 0 0 0 69WS Written Statements5 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 70WS

Of which: Number of new engagements for Number for whom Number for whom The number whose The number whom assurance was assurance was assurance was contracts came to an terminated as a sought (as of 31 requested and requested and not end before assurance result of non- March 2014) received received was received assurance

DH ALBs 858 779 79 0 79 DWP785127270 DWP ALBs 5 5000 FCO 12 12 0 0 0 FCO services 80 80 0 0 0 HMRC 15 15 0 0 0 HMRC ALBs 6 1550 HMT 18 18 0 0 0 HMT ALBs 7 7000 HO 110 110 0 0 0 HO ALBs 30 30 0 0 0 MOD 263 160 103 103 0 MOJ 140 140 0 0 0 MOJ ALBs 108 108 0 0 0 NS&I 9 9000 OFGEM 0 0000 OFQUAL88000 OFSTED 0 0000 OFT65110 OFWAT 11 11 0 0 0 ORR00000 TSOL 0 0000 UKEF 0 0000 UKSA (ONS) 74 72 2 0 2 Total 2,505 2,248 257 163 94 In 12 additional instances assurance was not requested but was received. These instances are: DFT 4, DFT ALBs 7, BIS ALBs 1. This table has been compiled using Departments’ 2013-14 annual reports and accounts, and additional up-to-date information provided by Departments to the Treasury during the review. For 2013-14 there were 2,828 contracts in scope. Departments took a risk-based approach in seeking assurance on these.

[HCWS347] important contribution to the process of extending broadband connectivity. I am pleased to report that these benefits are already being delivered. I understand from BT that more than 500,000 premises have access CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT to superfast broadband that would not have been served, or otherwise not served in a reasonable timeframe, if Broadband Infrastructure the planning measures did not exist. The code of practice is an engagement framework for communications providers, planning authorities and The Minister for Culture and the Digital Economy stakeholders. It provides detailed guidance on the (Mr Edward Vaizey): I am today announcing the outcome appropriate deployment of broadband infrastructure in of the review of the broadband cabinet and pole siting order to meet the objectives of avoiding or minimising code of practice. adverse impacts on the physical amenity and supporting The broadband cabinet and pole siting code of practice good practice while increasing the pace of the roll out came into force in June 2013 to complement planning of superfast broadband. improvement to fixed broadband infrastructure. The The code of practice was devised by a working group Growth and Infrastructure Act 2013 made possible comprising representatives from a range of industry the required complementary changes to secondary and sector organisations including the Planning Officers telecommunications legislation to allow broadband cabinets, Society, English Heritage, the National Parks Authorities, poles and overhead lines to be deployed in all areas Openreach, Virgin Media and the UK Competitive except sites of special scientific interest (SSSIs) for a Trade Association (UKCTA), with oversight from the period of five years. Department for Culture, Media and Sport and input These changes were part of a package of measures from the Department for Communities and Local announced by the Department for Culture, Media and Government, the Department for Transport and the Sport in September 2012 aimed at speeding up the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. process of superfast broadband rollout, reducing the The same group was responsible for reviewing the costs of deployment, and incentivising further investment. effectiveness of the code of practice. The availability of superfast broadband to business and The review examined the code of practice by assessing individuals is crucial to supporting economic growth the available evidence on compliance and performance, and the planning changes made in 2013 represent an and considered whether any revisions were needed. The 71WS Written Statements5 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 72WS working group members prepared for the review by We will continue to monitor compliance with the gathering feedback from their own organisations about code and a further review will be carried out in 18 months the performance of the code and assessing its effectiveness to ensure it remains up to date and relevant. through their own experience as code of practice users. [HCWS350] The Department for Culture, Media and Sport as well as the Departments for Communities and Local Government, the Department for Transport and the Sporting Legacy Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs also passed on feedback received which feeds into the review. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Overall there has been relatively little feedback about Media and Sport (Mrs Helen Grant): As Minister the performance of the code of practice. The Department responsible for sport, I am committed to delivering a for Culture, Media and Sport received one letter from a lasting sports legacy from London 2012 for all. For the local authority in September 2013 complaining that last time in this Parliament, I would like to update the communications provider was resisting compliance with House on progress on the Government’s sport legacy the code but did not provide specific details about the plan since October last year. nature of the non-compliance. The code was revised in While I was disappointed by the headline figure, and November 2013 to correct a factual error, and at that in particular the decline in the number of people swimming, stage a feedback form was circulated to local planning I was pleased to see that the latest figures from the authorities and communication providers, although none active people survey show there are 1.6 million more were returned. The Department for Communities and people playing sport regularly since we won the bid for Local Government received four letters about poor the games in 2005 and there were year-on-year increases siting of cabinets. One specifically cited non-compliance for team sports such as football, rugby union and with the code. The Department for Transport and the cricket. Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs I am committed to ensuring that Sport England’s did not receive any feedback or complaints about the investment of over £1 billion into improving grass-roots code. sport delivers real results. I have recently spoken to The Planning Officers’Society (POS) gave three examples underperforming sports and Sport England will focus of non-compliance with the code involving Openreach on programmes specifically targeted at what women, and insensitive cabinet siting in the London area. Overall disabled people, people from black, Asian and minority however, POS’s view was these were isolated examples ethnic backgrounds or low socio-economic groups need that had been addressed constructively by the relevant and want. Sports governing bodies have been left in no communications infrastructure provider and that generally, doubt that public funding to them is a privilege and not the code of practice appeared to be working well. a right. The national parks authorities also reported that the Since my last update, we have hosted the Government’s code appeared to be working well and that in their first national women and sport conference on 30 October experience, the real issue for residents of the national 2014. At the conference, Sport England launched “This parks was an eagerness to receive superfast broadband Girl Can”, a £10 million national lottery-funded campaign connectivity at the earliest opportunity. to get more women and girls active, whatever their age, shape or ability. The campaign seeks to tackle the English Heritage reported two cases of non-compliance barriers that stop women and girls from taking part in by a communications infrastructure provider involving sport. So far, the video has had over 16 million views on poor siting of a broadband cabinet near a heritage asset YouTube and Facebook, and 3,600 partners have engaged and in the other case failing to consult with English with the campaign. Heritage. In both cases the provider accepted that lessons Also in October, Sport England and UK Sport agreed needed to be learned and were putting in measures to a package to fund British basketball teams and help avoid it happening again. talent development in the sport. Sport England will Virgin Media had received no complaints about their provide £1.18 million-worth of Exchequer and national compliance or otherwise with the code and the same lottery funding to British basketball to support the applied to the membership of UKCTA. All communications men’s, women’s, under 20s men’s and women’s teams infrastructure providers agreed that overall the code from November 2014 to March 2017. was working positively. Openreach were aware of a few Later this month, the Department for Culture, Media cases of non-compliance by their contractors, but they and Sport and UK Sport will publish a joint major were committed to complying with the code and these events framework setting out how Government will were isolated examples which they had addressed. continue to work strategically alongside key stakeholders Conclusion to secure and deliver a portfolio of major sporting The working group jointly agreed that overall the events for the UK. code appeared to be working well. There were no complaints In December, the Chancellor of the Exchequer from members of the public or interested organisations announced a new £50 million package of Government about the efficacy of the code itself, and relatively few investment into improving grass-roots football focused complaints about non-compliance. Of the small number on local community multi-sport facilities and football of cases of non-compliance, in each case the problems coaching. The Government have dedicated £8 million were addressed by the relevant communications of funding per year, for five years, toward 150 multi-sport infrastructure provider and they reiterated their commitment hubs across 30 cities. In addition, a further £2 million to future compliance. per year, for five years, will support 25 new coach educators that can help triple the number of high-level 73WS Written Statements5 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 74WS coaches nationally and a bursary scheme to fund Seven schools have regular bookings at the centre, while qualifications, with specific targets for female coaches pupils from 50 schools across the region took part in and coaches from a black and minority ethnic background. free hockey and tennis activities in October’s schools The Government investment will be matched by the festival. Football Association, alongside further contributions Building on the success of 2014—which saw the from other partners such as the Premier League and arrival of the Tour de France, the Invictus games and Football League clubs and local authorities with a the Queen’s baton on the park—2015 promises more shared ambition for over £200 million of total funding. major sporting events. The rugby world cup will stage In February this year, Sport England launched “Club five matches in the stadium and the London Aquatics Matters”, a £3.6 million programme, which offers a Centre will host both the British swimming championships range of online resources and is a one-stop shop to and FINA world diving. support club administrators and volunteers who make “Active People, Active Park” is the London Legacy sport happen in their communities. Clubs who register Development Corporation’s flagship programme to promote can get access to seminars, e-learning and mentoring physical activity on Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park and from business professionals. All the tools and support continues to deliver free sporting opportunities on and are quick and easy to access and free for clubs to use. around the park for the communities in the vicinity. So The UK continues to host a number of major sporting far, 35,000 people have taken part in sporting activities events, including at some of the country’s newest venues as a result of this programme. “Motivate East” is a on the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park. Since October, programme run by the London Legacy Development international events held on the Olympic park have Corporation in partnership with Sport England and included NEC wheelchair tennis masters at Lee Valley other local partners to provide disability sport opportunities Hockey and Tennis Centre; the UCI track cycling world in east London; more than 22,000 sporting opportunities cup at Lee Valley VeloPark and England versus Malawi have been delivered since February 2013. international netball at Copper Box arena. Major sporting events This year England will be the proud host of the IRB Over 70 major international sporting events have rugby world cup, the third biggest sporting event in the been secured for the UK following the London 2012 world. I am pleased to say that ticket sales have been games, including over 30 world and European excellent and the event is estimated to generate a boost championships. Earlier this year we were successful in of almost £1 billion to the UK’s GDP,including £85 million securing the 2019 netball world cup and since October of infrastructure projects and the support of 41,000 jobs. we have successfully hosted several events, including the We also expect there to be more international visitors WTF world taekwondo grand prix series in Manchester coming to the country than at any previous rugby world and the ITF wheelchair tennis singles masters series at cup. the Olympic park. Later this year we will proudly host Elite sport the rugby world cup and world artistic gymnastics, among other events. There has been a £2.3 million boost to summer Paralympic sports as a result of UK Sport’s annual We continue to strive towards identifying and securing investment review process. The results saw wheelchair events and in March the Department for Culture, Media fencing re-admitted to the world-class performance and Sport will publish a major sporting events framework, programme. setting out how the UK will continue to support events. As part of the continued Government funding for Places people play elite sport to 2016, all funded athletes have been asked Sport England has invested £10 million into 148 local to give up to five days a year to inspire children and sport facilities through the latest round of its Inspired young people to get involved in sport. UK Sport’s most Facilities Fund, which were announced in October 2014. recent survey of this activity, completed in December Sport England has now invested £100 million through 2014, revealed that athletes had given more than 10,000 Inspired Facilities to upgrade over 1,800 sports clubs. days to community and school sport since London Since my last update, East Manchester leisure centre 2012. has opened. The new leisure centre is part of the Beswick World-class facilities community hub, which has been developed in partnership All venues on Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park are now with Manchester City football club and Sport England. open, with the exception of the stadium which is undergoing Sport England invested £2 million of national lottery transformation work until 2016, when it will become investment through its iconic facilities fund, an Olympic the home of West Ham United football club and the legacy fund which invested £36 million into 26 state of national competition centre for UK athletics. the art sports hubs, providing the right facilities in the right places. All the sporting venues on the park provide world-class facilities at affordable rates and run extensive school Youth sport strategy and community programmes, as well as host major The latest active people survey results saw an increase sporting events throughout the year. in the number of 16 to 25-year-olds playing sport The venues are proving to be extremely popular. regularly, with 3.78 million young people playing sport Since opening in March 2014 the London Aquatics once a week. This is an increase of 133,400 since 2005 Centre has attracted more than 650,000 visitors and Lee when London won the bid to host the 2012 Olympic Valley VeloPark has attracted more than 360,000 visitors. and Paralympic games. Lee Valley Hockey and Tennis Centre has a busy club Satellite Clubs is Sport England’s £49 million programme and schools programme: four hockey clubs play out of that brings community sports clubs into schools and the centre and five university clubs have regular bookings. colleges. With over 3,600 clubs already up and running, 75WS Written Statements5 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 76WS

Sport England is on track to meet its target of setting the competitors at the recent Commonwealth games in up 5,000 clubs by 2017. There are over 480 clubs, which Glasgow had taken part in the School games previously. are girls only, and Sport England estimates that through As of 10 January 2015, 16,491 schools were actively these clubs over 18,000 girls are playing sport regularly. engaged in the School games. Manchester has been Sportivate is Sport England’s £56 million national confirmed as the venue for the 2015 finals. lottery-funded Olympic legacy programme which, since PE and school sport June 2011, has reached half a million 11 to 25-year-olds The primary spaces facilities fund will enable 601 schools and introduced them to sport through a six to eight-week to improve their outdoor facilities and create spaces coaching course. The coaching courses offer over 80 that will inspire and encourage pupils to take part in sports, including traditional sports like football, cricket play. and rugby, and also activities like windsurfing, parkour Schools were awarded grants up to £30,000. All and skateboarding. 601 schools have their projects planned this year; they Sport for Development are being installed in five waves throughout the academic We have increased our work on Sport for Development, year. Approximately 150 projects have now been completed recognising the important role that sport can play in with children enjoying their newly enhanced outdoor achieving other policy priorities, for example helping facility. promote employability and skill development as well as In October last year, Ofsted published a survey report developing social cohesion and self-confidence. on the primary school sport premium looking at the In November, I hosted a round-table with organisations first year of delivery of the primary PE and sport fund. delivering Sport for Development. The key message The results were positive showing lots of good practice from this was the need for better measurement and and that, in the majority of schools visited, head teachers evaluation of these programmes. Sport England were using the funding to make improvements to PE subsequently commissioned the Sport Industry Research and sport. The report highlighted the need for clearer Centre at Sheffield Hallam university to establish a guidance for schools, which has now been taken up by common measurement framework for the sector which the Department for Education. will assist organisations in evidencing their impact and Disability sport legacy assist in future funding applications. Sport England continued its support for disability A subsequent round-table last month showed that sport investing £2 million into seven national disability real progress had been made and the sector were developing sports organisations to help more people access sport. their own narrative and working closely together. The funding will provide impairment-specific support Separately we have also provided funding to some to national governing bodies and deliver engagement Sport for Development projects, including those run by programmes. This is part of a package of over £170 million Sussex county cricket club, Street League and the Change that Sport England is investing to get more disabled Foundation. people playing sport. Volunteering International sport Join In has continued apace with volunteer recruitment The international element of our sporting legacy has with over 250 local leaders now trained, enabling more drawn to a close with the conclusion of the successful people than ever to become involved with grass-roots international inspiration programme. sports clubs through the 30 established local networks. Delivered through a unique and highly successful In January 2015, 694 volunteering opportunities were partnership between UK Sport, the British Council, added to the existing 19,000 volunteering opportunities UNICEF UK and the newly established legacy charity on www.joininuk.org. These opportunities are accessible International Inspiration it exceeded many of its goals, to over 100,000 Join In registered volunteers and are in particular reaching 15.6 million children and young actively promoted by local leaders. people against a target of 12 million across 20 countries. Join In continued to work with national broadcasters, The British Council had particular responsibility for highlighting volunteer opportunities through ITV and delivering the physical education elements in schools, partnering BBC sport personality of the year with which included capacity building with practitioners, #The Big Thank You. During the live broadcast, high- working with young leaders aged 14 to 19 years old, and profile sports personalities were approached and asked developing school partnerships between the UK and to call sports club volunteers to thank them for their overseas International Inspiration programme countries. input, the success of which trended globally on Twitter. In addition, the British Council built relationships with School games ministries to achieve policy change. The School games is Government’s framework for I would like to thank all those involved in delivering a competitive school sport, which aims to give every first-class programme and wish the International Inspiration schoolchild, no matter their ability or disability, the charity continued success in the future. chance to participate in high-quality competitive sport. [HCWS349] The School games offer intra-school, inter-school, county festivals and national finals competition for school children. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT The School games national finals 2014 were held in Manchester on 4 to 7 September. A total of 1,600 athletes Planning competed in 12 sports in venues across the city. With more than 20,000 spectators and more than 400 volunteers, the event provided an opportunity to highlight the The Minister of State, Department for Communities importance of youth sport. The games have been a and Local Government (Brandon Lewis): I would like to launch pad for many elite athletes—for example, 150 of update hon. Members on further technical measures 77WS Written Statements5 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 78WS that the coalition Government are making to improve environmental effects, and so a full strategic environmental the planning system, helping to deliver more homes and assessment is not required. We are consequently cancelling increase certainty for both applicants and local residents. “Planning policy statement: Eco-towns: A supplement Reducing delays after planning permission is granted to planning policy statement 1” from July 2009. We are The Government are determined to tackle delays saving the policies for north-west Bicester until Cherwell associated with Section 106 negotiations and the use district council has an up-to-date local plan in place, and discharge of planning conditions, which can lead to which is currently under examination. delays in development being built on the ground after Updating planning guidance planning permission is granted. As part of roll-out of the new streamlined planning To speed up section 106, we will address this in the guidance online resource, we are updating planning short term through amending planning guidance by guidance on a number of issues. We will shortly be confirming that section 106 negotiations should be updating planning guidance in relation to aerodromes dealt with in statutory time scales; set expectations of and the change of use of agricultural buildings into early engagement about the scope of section 106 agreements homes. We will also be publishing planning guidance to at the pre-application stage by all parties; encourage support the new planning policy on sustainable drainage greater use of standardised clauses; and set expectations systems. for greater transparency about the raising and spending Updated household projections were published on of section 106 funds. We are also currently consulting 27 February which will provide an up-to-date basis for on whether legislative changes to section 106 will be local authorities to determine their housing need. The required to streamline the process during the next new household projections cover the period 2012-37 for Parliament. England and local authorities; they update the previous On planning conditions, we are publishing today the “2011-based interim household projections”, and have Government’s response to the consultation on a range taken account of the latest Office for National Statistics of proposals to improve the use and discharge of planning 2012-based sub-national population projections. Planning conditions. guidance has been updated to make clear that the new projections are the most up-to-date and should now be Scaling back gold-plating of EU directives used to take forward plan making. The environmental impact assessment regime stems Streamlining consenting requirements for national from an EU directive, on top of the checks and balances infrastructure in England’s planning system. The procedures go beyond those normally required for a planning application. We are today publishing the formal Government This increases the work load of developers, local planning response to the consultation on streamlining consenting authorities and the consultation bodies, adding cost requirements for nationally significant infrastructure and creating delays. There is currently confusion about projects. Businesses applying for a development consent when they are required, leading to gold-plating of the order will be able to benefit from a more streamlined directive by local authorities and developers. process to obtaining consents. Businesses using this streamlined approach will benefit from more certainty We will shortly be laying regulations which will over their application process and a simplified regime significantly reduce the number of housing schemes for obtaining development consent. and proposals for other urban development which are not likely to have significant effects on the environment Supporting the potential for shale gas extraction but which currently have to be screened by local planning The Government are taking steps to ensure that we authorities. This will remove unnecessary gold-plating, lead the way with robust and efficient regulation of reduce costs and provide more certainty for all interested shale oil and gas. Shale gas has the potential to increase parties. our energy security, create thousands of jobs, and reduce Cancelling redundant policy from the last Administration carbon emissions. This nascent industry presents new challenges for mineral planning authorities in how they The coalition Government have sought to abolish consider and determine planning applications for shale top-down planning and streamline Whitehall planning exploration. rules. As Ministers explained on 24 January 2014, Official Report, Column 15WS, in 2010, the coalition Government This is why, as part of the £5 million support package cancelled the last Government’s top-down eco-towns announced in the autumn statement in December, we programme, as part of our commitment to localism and have decided to make £1.2 million available in 2015-16 to supporting locallyled development. Despite a pledge to support local authorities to assist with the administration of 10 new towns by the last Government, the eco-towns of shale planning applications, ensuring they can be programme built nothing but resentment. The initiative handled, with due process and a fair hearing in an was a total shambles, with developers abandoning the efficient and timely manner. A prospectus inviting bids process, application for judicial review, the timetable for funding to boost local authorities’ capacity and being extended over and over, and local opposition capability to deal with these applications has been published growing to the then Government’s unsustainable and today. environmentally damaging proposals. We are also today publishing for technical consultation The eco-town planning policy has remained on the a proposal to improve the process for potential petroleum books, as its planned repeal has necessitated us considering exploration, including shale gas, through making a whether a strategic environmental assessment is required minor amendment to existing permitted development (as a consequence of yet another EU directive). A rights in relation to mineral exploration. screening assessment, carried out by independent consultants, This change would grant permission for the drilling has concluded that cancellation of the eco-towns planning of boreholes for groundwater monitoring for petroleum policy statement is unlikely, by itself, to have significant exploration, enabling limited works to be carried out to 79WS Written Statements5 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 80WS establish baseline information on the groundwater be duly justified, to enable the DCC’s systems and environment in advance of, or in parallel to, any planning services to come together with the energy companies’ application or applications coming forward for such systems and processes in a co-ordinated start to the development. main installation phase. For this activity, it would improve environmental In the meantime consumers are already benefiting monitoring and put petroleum exploration on the same from the early roll-out of smart meters with over 1 million footing as that capable of being carried out under meters operating under the programme. existing permitted development rights for mineral [HCWS345] exploration more generally. We consider that the amended right should, with the exception of an intended raising of the current height restriction of structures needed to carry out the development from 12 to 15 metres, be ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS subject to the same restrictions and conditions that apply to the existing permitted development rights. Environment Council: Agenda Promoting regeneration and new homes in London On 20 February, as part of our long-term economic plan for London, the Government announced proposals The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for to promote brownfield regeneration in London. This Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Dan Rogerson): includes beginning discussions on powers for the Mayor My noble Friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of over lines of sight and wharves. The announcement also State for the Department of Energy and Climate Change, contained proposals to take forward new housing zones Baroness Verma, and I will attend the EU Environment and further free up public sector land. Council in Brussels on 6 March. We recently laid secondary legislation at the request Following the adoption of the agenda the list of “A” of the Mayor that will establish a mayoral development items will be approved. corporation vested with local planning powers for Old There will be four non-legislative items for an exchange Oak and Park Royal from next month. This will help of views. These are Greening the European Semester enable the regeneration of the site which crosses local Communication from the Commission, annual growth authority boundaries and to maximise the benefits of a survey 2015; the global post-2015 agenda—taking stock High Speed 2 and Crossrail station, in line with the of negotiations; and the Energy Union. The remaining Mayor’s ambitions to create 24,000 homes and 55,000 jobs non-legislative item is the road to the UNFCCC Conference in the area of the Parties in Paris. This item will be for exchange of These measures illustrate the practical steps we are views on the submission of the EU and member states. taking to decentralise decision making, cut unnecessary It will be followed by adoption of the submission of EU bureaucracy, and help increase house building and economic and member states intended national determined growth. contribution (INDC). Copies of the documents associated with these Over the lunch Ministers will be invited to discuss the announcements are available online at: http://www.parliament. findings of the state of the environment (SOER) report, uk/writtenstatements. following a presentation by the European Environment [HCWS352] Agency. There is a series of AOB items covering: a global phase-down of hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs) under the Montreal protocol; ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE soil sealing; and second ministerial conference on environment and renewable Smart Metering energies of the western mediterranean dialogue. [HCWS346]

The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change (Mr Edward Davey): Following a proposal from the Data and Communications Company (DCC) to adopt HOME DEPARTMENT an alternative delivery plan, I have today approved the DCC’s plan as provided for under powers in the DCC’s Justice and Home Affairs: Pre-Council Statement licences—which were granted under sections 7AB(2) of the Gas Act 1986 and section 6(1A) of the Electricity Act 1989. Under this revised plan, the DCC will plan to The Secretary of State for the Home Department deliver operational services from April 2016 rather than (Mrs Theresa May): The Justice and Home Affairs its current target of December 2015. (JHA) Council will be held on 12 and 13 March in The Data and Communications Company is responsible Brussels. My hon. Friend the Minister of State for Civil for establishing the enduring data and communications Justice and Legal Policy (Lord Faulks QC) and I will infrastructure over which energy suppliers will operate attend on behalf of the United Kingdom. As the provisional smart electricity and gas meters. agenda stands, the following items will be discussed. It is vital that the DCC delivers to a plan in which all The Interior session on 12 March will begin in mixed parties have confidence. I have therefore made available Committee with Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein and up to a maximum of six months of contingency which Switzerland (non-EU Schengen States). The Council will be strictly governed by my Department, and must will discuss migration in the context of ongoing migratory 81WS Written Statements5 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 82WS pressures on member states and further deaths in the business and citizens only have to deal with one data Mediterranean following the recent unseasonal increase protection authority with the greater legal certainty in sea crossings. This discussion will also anticipate the that provides. The presidency’s overarching ambition Commission’s forthcoming proposals on a new ‘European remains to secure a general approach at the June Justice Agenda on Migration’. The Government have offered and Home Affairs Council on this file. The Government their broad support for the Commission’s intention to remain committed to seeing a proportionate regulation pursue a more coherent and co-ordinated approach which balances the rights of individuals and the legitimate to work with key countries of origin and transit, and to needs of private and public sector organisations to better linking action ‘upstream’ to migration and asylum process personal data. policies within the EU. Any new agenda should maintain There will be a discussion on the European Public the approach set out in the October JHA Council’s Prosecutor’s Office (EPPO) proposal. We expect debate conclusions on migratory pressures, including maintaining to centre on structural and related internal issues. While the EU’s focus on work upstream and ensuring that all the UK plays an active role in the negotiations in order member states meet their responsibilities regarding to shape and protect our position as a non-participating migration, asylum and border management. member state, we do not anticipate a need to intervene The presidency has tabled an item on Bulgarian and on these internal matters. Romanian accession to Schengen, at the request of The presidency will present a general approach in Romania and Bulgaria, who are seeking to finalise their relation to the directive on Legal Aid. This proposal accession to the borders aspects of the Schengen acquis— aims to establish common rules to ensure that any which does not affect the UK—and then lower border persons suspected or accused of a crime, whose liberty controls with their EU neighbours. However, accession is being deprived at the early stage of proceedings, have remains blocked by a number of the member states immediate access to legal aid. During negotiations, the concerned. The presidency may well withdraw it from Council has considered questions around the scope of the agenda (as they did in October and December). As the directive. The UK has not opted in to this proposal this currently concerns only borders elements of Schengen, though it monitors negotiations. the UK does not have a vote. The presidency will present a general approach in Greece has asked for the Greek action plan on asylum relation to the Commission’s proposal to reform Eurojust, and migration to be placed on the agenda. The UK has covering the whole text of the proposal with all references worked closely with Greece over the last five years, both to the European Public Prosecutor’s Office (EPPO) bilaterally and through the EU European Asylum Support removed. Given that Eurojust’s relationship with the Office, to help build its asylum and border security EPPO is not covered in the revised text, it is impossible capacity to make it harder for illegal immigrants to to take a definitive view on items such as governance enter the EU; and ensure that if they do get into Greece, arrangements. However, the presidency’s general approach a viable asylum system exists so they are more likely to text is broadly positive from a UK perspective. One of remain there than move on. Much progress has been our key concerns was to ensure that member states are made but momentum needs to be maintained, both to not obliged to give additional powers to their National ensure that Greece continues building an effective asylum members. It should also be noted that, even if a general and border control system, and that ultimately Dublin approach is agreed (as per the presidency’s plan), there returns may resume to that country. is no guarantee that the European Parliament will be in During the main Interior meeting the Council will a position to start trilogue negotiations immediately discuss counter terrorism where the presidency intends given it has been slower than the Council in dealing to agree a “road map”for the implementation of measures with the file. agreed at January’s informal JHA Council in Riga and The presidency will then seek a partial general approach at the recent European Council. The EU Counter Terrorism on the proposed regulation on promoting the free movement Co-ordinator, Gilles de Kerchove, is pressing for this to of citizens and businesses by simplifying the acceptance focus on the possible amendment to the Schengen borders of certain public documents in the EU. This will cover code (to allow routine checks on EEA nationals entering the chapters which deal with the abolition of apostilles, the Schengen area), firearms and internet referrals. The use of the internal market information (IMI) online UK will push again for progress on intra-EEA PNR system and rationalisation of certified copies, translations and press for more effective information exchange, in and administrative co-operation between member states order to counter the opportunities that free movement through an online system. It will exclude the chapter within the EU provides to terrorists. and articles on multilingual forms. A political declaration Justice day will begin with the Latvian presidency to guard against the EU being given exclusive external seeking a partial general approach on chapters II, VI competence on areas covered by this regulation is also and VII of the proposed data protection regulation. expected to be presented at the meeting. Chapter II deals with the key principles underpinning Over lunch, the presidency proposes a discussion on the instrument, including the conditions for using consent tackling radicalisation in prisons, an area where the UK as a legal basis for data processing. Chapters VI and VII can offer to share best practice to other member states. provide for the so-called “One-Stop-Shop” which seeks [HCWS351] to provide a streamlined regulatory framework where

9P Petitions5 MARCH 2015 Petitions 10P

Additionally, the Government have responded to the Petitions six Which? led Taskforce recommendations for Government that were set out in their report of 8 December 2014. Thursday 5 March 2015 The Taskforce considered consent and lead generation issues within the direct marketing industry and started its work in late May holding six meetings. Its membership included Ofcom, the Information Commissioner’s Office, OBSERVATIONS the Direct Marketing Association, Call Credit, Barclaycard, the Customer Contact Association, the Ministry of Justice and the Communications Consumer Panel. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT The Government will also be consulting on bringing forward secondary legislation to amend the PECR and require marketing callers to provide their Calling Line Unsolicited phone calls and texts Identification (CLI). This will enable consumers to The Petition of residents of the Plymouth Moor View determine who is calling them and therefore allow such constituency and others, calls to be reported more easily. Declares that the Petitioners would like the Government We will continue in our efforts to combat this menace to provide additional powers to the Information by working with regulators, industry and consumer Commissioner to stop the scourge of nuisance texts and groups including through my roundtable meetings. phone calls; further declares that these calls are unsolicited but can result in the recipient being inconvenienced and charged when abroad. HEALTH The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to review the current Meningitis B Vaccine law on cold and marketing calls and texts. The Petition of Dr Christopher Turner, Mrs Gillian And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Alison Turner, Mr Peter Styles, Mrs Julia Styles, Mr Peter Seabeck, Official Report, 16 December 2014; Vol. 589, Skoulding, Mrs Julie Skoulding, Miss Lucy Skoulding c. 1375 .] and others. [P001413] Declare that the most common cause of meningitis in Observations from the Secretary of State for Culture, the UK is bacterial meningitis caused by a meningococcal Media and Sport: group B infection; further that the Petitioners believe meningitis and meningococcal disease are greatly feared Tackling nuisance calls is a priority for the Government. by both doctors and parents; further that the disease We have taken steps to tackle the problem through strikes without warning, can be difficult to diagnose in publication of the first ever Nuisance Calls Action Plan the early stages, and can lead to at worst death of a on 30 March 2014: https://www.gov.uk/government/ child/ or teenager within 24 hours from the onset of news/nuisance-calls-action-plan-unveiled. This set out mild symptoms or severe disabilities including loss of in detail our achievements to date, work underway and limbs, deafness, blindness and mental changes in survivors; proposed actions for the future, which included both further that in addition to hospitalisation costs to the legislative and non-legislative measures. NHS involving intensive care sometimes for extended This includes consulting between 25 October and periods of time, it is estimated that the cost for care of 6 December 2014 on our proposal to lower or remove each survivor is £3 million pounds during their remaining the legal threshold to improve the ability of the Information lifetime; further that in addition, litigation claims to the Commissioner’s Office (ICO) to take more enforcement NHS for clinical negligence in respect of meningitis B action, including issuing monetary penalties. The run into millions of pounds annually; further that the Government’s Response to this consultation was published introduction into the Childhood Immunisation Programme on 25 February confirming we would be removing the of Haemophilus influenzae B, meningococcal C, and legal threshold to make it effective for 6 April 2015. pneumococcal vaccines has been highly successful in Under the Privacy and Electronic Communications almost eradicating these causes of meningitis; further Regulations (PECR) 2003, the ICO has responsibility that in contrast, the Meningitis B vaccine (Bexcero) for considering complaints about unsolicited direct received its licence in January 2013 but has been denied marketing nuisance calls and text messages and can by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation issue a substantive monetary penalty of up to £500,000 (JCVI) for NHS patients; further that it is available for to any organisation for breaching the regulations. Since those parents wealthy enough to pay privately at a cost January 2012, the ICO has taken enforcement action of £75 to £125 per injection; further that two injections against nine companies with monetary penalties totalling are normally required; further that the vaccine manufacturer £815,000 being issued for calls and text messages and has offered significantly reduced, but unspecified, prices further monetary penalties are likely to be issued after to the NHS; further that whilst the number of cases of we lower or remove the legal threshold for the ICO. meningitis B vary from year to year, it is reported that in Further details about the enforcement action taken to 2010 there were 1870 cases, that is five families affected date by the ICO can be viewed at: http://ico.org.uk/ each day; further that the death rate ranges from 5 to enforcement/action/texts. The ICO’s approach to regulation 10 per cent of cases; further that disabilities are reported is to follow good regulatory principles taking a to occur in 20 to 30 per cent of survivors; further that proportionate approach using strong enforcement action the sum of this failure to implement meningitis B coupled with effective education and engagement with vaccination on the NHS is a significant burden on organisations that breach the regulations. taxpayers and the national exchequer in both the short 11P Petitions5 MARCH 2015 Petitions 12P and long term, notwithstanding the effects on individual The Government are sorry to hear about the families and the cost to them both in monetary and disappointment that the closure of the local NatWest psychological terms and further that taking a median and Barclays bank branches has caused to residents of figure of 25 per cent with residual disability at £3 million Sedbergh. pounds each, the cost to the Exchequer reaches £140 million Improving access to banking is a key part of the pounds per annum and this is likely to be an underestimate Government’s long-term economic plan. The Government when family factors are taken into consideration. continue to engage actively with the banking industry The Petitioners therefore request that the House of and consumer groups on these matters. Recently, the Commons urges the Department of Health to introduce Economic Secretary for the Treasury has chaired a meningitis B vaccine for all on the NHS. series of roundtable meetings alongside the Secretary of And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Geoffrey State for Business Innovation and Skills on access to Clifton-Brown, Official Report, 7 July 2014; Vol. 584, banking. The UK’s banks and building societies have c. 1P .] been tasked with enhancing and improving awareness of the banking services available through the Post Office. [P001365] Many bank account providers already have an Observations from the Secretary of State for Health: arrangement with the Post Office to provide access to The Government recognise the devastating and their bank accounts, where customers can withdraw distressing impact that meningococcal B (MenB) disease money, deposit cash and cheques and check balances at can have. In June 2013, the Secretary of State asked the all 11,500 Post Office branches in the UK. Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation While the range of services offered by the Post Office (JCVI) for a recommendation on the use of the recently may be more limited than that offered in a traditional licensed MenB vaccine, Bexsero® in the national bank branch, the services provided through the Post immunisation programme. Office’s extensive network ensures that essential banking On 21 March 2014, JCVI recommended that Bexsero® facilities remain available in as many communities as should be added to the infant immunisation schedule, possible. This Government have committed almost £2 billion subject to the Department of Health being able to to protect and modernise the Post Office network. purchase the vaccine from the manufacturer, Novartis Although we can understand local residents’ concern, at a cost-effective price, which is significantly lower than decisions on opening and closing agencies are taken by the published list price. the management team of each bank on a commercial The Department of Health welcomed JCVI’s basis. As with other banking service providers, Barclays recommendation, and the Secretary of State for Health and NatWest need to balance customer interests, market is under a statutory duty to implement it, subject to competition, and other commercial factors when obtaining the vaccine at a cost-effective price. considering their strategy and the Government do not The Department of Health is continuing to negotiate seek to intervene in these decisions. with the manufacturer for the supply of Bexsero®. The Department hopes that the manufacturer will offer the vaccine at a cost-effective price so that plans for the new Closure of Barclays Bank in St Agnes immunisation programme can be finalised as soon as possible. The Petition of residents of St Agnes, Declares that the Petitioners oppose the plans to close the St Agnes branch of Barclays Bank; further that the Petitioners feel that the branch is a vital element TREASURY of their community; and further that a local Petition on this matter has been signed by 2827 individuals. Bank branches in Sedbergh The Petitioners therefore request that the House of The Petition of a resident of the UK, Commons urges the Government to encourage Barclays Declares that the closure of both the Barclays and to reverse their decision to close the branch in St Agnes NatWest branches in Sedbergh would leave the town or to postpone the closure to enable the Petitioners to without any bank branch, causing an inconvenience for work with the bank to make it more viable for it to be small businesses, vulnerable residents and the community kept open. of Sedbergh. And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Sarah The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Newton, Official Report, 12 February 2015; Vol. 592, Commons urges the Government to encourage the Chief c. 1049 .] Executives of both Barclays and NatWest to retain their [P001435] branches in Sedbergh. Observations from the Chancellor of Exchequer: And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Tim The Government thank the hon. Member for Truro Farron, Official Report, 3 February 2015; Vol. 592, and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) for her petition on the c. 245 .] closure of the Barclays branch in St Agnes. [P001424] The Government are sorry to hear about the Observations from the Chancellor of Exchequer: disappointment that the closure of the local Barclays The Government thank the hon. Member for bank branch has caused to residents of St Agnes. Westmorland and Lansdale (Tim Farron) for his petition Improving access to banking is a key part of the on the closure of the Barclays and NatWest branches in Government’s long-term economic plan. The Government Sedburgh. continue to engage actively with the banking industry 13P Petitions5 MARCH 2015 Petitions 14P and consumer groups on these matters. Recently, the facilities remain available in as many communities as Economic Secretary for the Treasury has chaired a possible. The service at St Agnes Post Office will be series of roundtable meetings alongside the Secretary of adjusted from 6 February to enable customers to undertake State for Business Innovation and Skills on access to Barclays manual deposits at the counter. This solution banking. The UK’s banks and building societies have should ensure that the community of St Agnes have been tasked with enhancing and improving awareness access to a wider range of banking services. This of the banking services available through the Post Office. Government have committed almost £2 billion to protect Many bank account providers already have an arrangement and modernise the Post Office network. with the Post Office to provide access to their bank Although we can understand local residents’ concern, accounts, where customers can withdraw money, deposit decisions on opening and closing agencies are taken by cash and cheques and check balances at all 11,500 Post the management team of each bank on a commercial Office branches in the UK. basis. As with other banking service providers, Barclays While the range of services offered by the Post Office need to balance customer interests, market competition, may be more limited than that offered in a traditional and other commercial factors when considering their bank branch, the services provided through the Post strategy and the Government do not seek to intervene Office’s extensive network ensures that essential banking in these decisions.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 5 March 2015

Col. No. Col. No. HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION...... 1072 TRANSPORT—continued House of Commons Management ...... 1072 A69: Dualling ...... 1065 Parliamentary Estate: Recycling...... 1076 Airports Commission...... 1057 Transgender Visitors ...... 1075 Bus Lanes ...... 1059 Cycling and Walking...... 1064 LEADER OF THE HOUSE ...... 1075 Great Western Franchise...... 1067 E-petitions ...... 1075 Greater Anglia Franchise...... 1060 Government Accountability...... 1074 Lincolnshire Roads ...... 1063 Public Bill Committees...... 1073 Rail Delays: Compensation...... 1067 Select Committees...... 1076 Railway Stations: Traffic ...... 1061 TRANSPORT ...... 1057 Rural Railway Stations...... 1058 A27: Worthing and Lancing...... 1066 Topical Questions ...... 1068 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Thursday 5 March 2015

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 65WS ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 79WS Cape Town Treaty ...... 65WS Smart Metering...... 79WS Contingent Liability Notification (Wholesale Guarantee Scheme)...... 65WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 80WS Environment Council: Agenda...... 80WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 76WS Planning...... 76WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 80WS Justice and Home Affairs: Pre-Council Statement . 80WS CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 69WS Broadband Infrastructure ...... 69WS TREASURY ...... 66WS Sporting Legacy...... 72WS Off-payroll Engagements ...... 66WS PETITIONS

Thursday 5 March 2015

Col. No. Col. No. CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 9P TREASURY ...... 11P Unsolicited phone calls and texts ...... 9P Bank branches in Sedbergh...... 11P Closure of Barclays Bank in St Agnes...... 12P HEALTH...... 10P Meningitis B Vaccine ...... 10P Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Thursday 12 March 2015

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CONTENTS

Thursday 5 March 2015

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1057] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Transport Leader of the House House of Commons Commission

Business of the House [Col. 1079] Statement—(Mr Hague)

Backbench Business International Women’s Day [Col. 1093] Motion—(Maria Miller)—agreed to Welsh Affairs [Col. 1134] Motion—(Glyn Davies)—agreed to

Littlewoods and Telegraph Pension Funds [Col. 1180] Debaet on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall National Planning Policy Framework [Col. 363WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Statements [Col. 65WS]

Petitions [Col. 9P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]