Thursday Volume 523 17 February 2011 No. 121

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 17 February 2011

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Mr Hayes: I do indeed congratulate them, and I House of Commons congratulate my hon. Friend on drawing the matter to the House’s attention. I did a little research: the Thursday 17 February 2011 event was attended by 51 employers and resulted in 29 apprenticeship pledges just on the day. My goodness, we are reminded of Virgil: “They can because they The House met at half-past Ten o’clock think they can.”

PRAYERS Mary Macleod: I recently visited Brentford football club community sports trust as part of apprenticeship [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] week and have also written to more than 600 businesses to encourage them to take up apprenticeship places and take on more apprentices. What other advice would my hon. Friend give businesses to encourage them to provide Oral Answers to Questions more apprenticeships?

Mr Hayes: Businesses need to know that they will BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS recoup their investment rapidly, with even the most expensive apprenticeships paying back in less than three years. Apprenticeships have a real link to productivity The Secretary of State was asked— and to competitiveness. May I just say that Brentford Apprenticeships football club had a very good result on Saturday, when they drew with Milton Keynes Dons? 1. Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con): How many apprenticeship starts there have been in the academic Stephen Mosley: Chester FC was also successful last year 2010-11 to date. [41342] Saturday, winning 5-0; I was fortunate enough to be there. It is a community-run and owned football club, 6. Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con): which recently launched an apprenticeship scheme How many apprenticeship starts there have been in the employing 21 16-year-olds on sports management courses. academic year 2010-11 to date. [41347] What is the Minister doing to encourage other big 8. Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): how society organisations to get involved with apprenticeships? many apprenticeship starts there have been in the academic year 2010-11 to date. [41349] Mr Hayes: We are involved in an unprecedented campaign to promote the value of apprenticeships. Last 11. Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) week—apprenticeship week—450 events were held (Con): How many apprenticeship starts there have been throughout the country. I met learners, employers and in the academic year 2010-11 to date. [41352] providers. Apprenticeships are top of the agenda for all those groups. 12. Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): How many apprenticeship starts there have been in the academic year 2010-11 to date. [41353] Mr Evennett: Last Friday, I visited the Just Learning day nursery in my constituency to see at first hand the 17. Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): How many benefits of apprenticeships for young people and employers. apprenticeship starts there have been in the academic I was pleased to meet apprentice Jade Vale and manager year 2010-11 to date. [41358] Tracey Tomlinson, who were very positive about the apprenticeship scheme. What steps are the Government The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong taking to ensure that people can progress to the higher Learning (Mr John Hayes): All our Christmases have level of apprenticeships to meet the needs of employers? come together. Provisional data show that there were 119,800 Mr Hayes: My hon. Friend is right. The previous apprenticeship starts in the first quarter of the 2010-11 Government’s Leitch report made it absolutely clear academic year. That good news confirms that employers that we need to boost intermediate and higher level are recognising the value of apprenticeships to building skills as our economy becomes more advanced. I am growth and competitiveness. The Government are working with the sector skills councils and the UK committed to increasing the budget for apprenticeships Commission for Employment and Skills to develop to over £1.4 billion in the 2011-12 financial year. more high-level frameworks. The numbers doubled in Alok Sharma: As part of the recent apprenticeships the past year, but we must do more. Apprenticeships are week, the National Apprenticeship Service launched a critical to the nation’s growth and prosperity. 100-day campaign in Reading. By the end of the first day alone, 28 pledges of places and a further 19 expressions Rehman Chishti: I recently visited the Medway youth of interest had been received from local employers. Will club, a local charity in my constituency, which helps the Minister join me in congratulating Reading’s employers, young people get into work and into apprenticeships, Reading borough council, the Reading Post and other and it very much welcomes the Government’s apprenticeship local organisations on supporting that excellent initiative scheme. However, it would like to see more assistance and demonstrating what can be achieved when business being given to small businesses, and guidance for setting and Government work together? up apprenticeships. 1115 Oral Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 1116

Mr Hayes: It is a little known fact, but none the less and Albert museum and other cultural organisations in one that I want to draw to the House’s attention, that London. Thirty-four young people are on that programme, 78% of apprentices are employed in small businesses, but it is funded by the future jobs fund, so it is about to which are the backbone of our economy. I started in a run out. I invited those young people to come to the small business, which got bigger as a result, and small House to tell Members of Parliament what they have businesses are essential if we are to make apprenticeships learned from this programme and how they have sing. encouraged other young people to start careers in the cultural industries. Will the Minister come and listen to Stephen Lloyd: Last Friday, I spoke to several employers what they have to say about the difference that the in Eastbourne, and their view was that a grant to the future jobs fund has made to them? providers of apprenticeships would act as a huge incentive and make a huge difference to take-up and completion. Mr Hayes: As you know, Mr Speaker, the future jobs Although I appreciate that tough current fiscal conditions fund is not within my ministerial purview—[HON.MEMBERS: mean that any money has be found elsewhere, does the “Ah!”] Well, never pitch above your pay grade or outside Minister agree that, for small employers in my constituency your purview. I will of course meet the young people and throughout the country, a small cash incentive for and the hon. Lady and listen to what they have to say. small and medium-sized enterprises will lead to a dramatic rise in the take-up of apprenticeships? Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): I have just returned from a fact-finding mission to Dusseldorf Mr Hayes: We are committing substantial funds to and Berlin with the Welsh Affairs Committee. Is the apprenticeships and, indeed, those funds will be targeted Minister aware that all German businesses are required at the firms that most need support to take on apprentices to join a local chamber of commerce and the regional and build their skills. My hon. Friend is right to say that chamber of commerce, and that those organisations are these are tough times, but we are always open to proposals required to provide comprehensive apprenticeships, tailored made by this House and representative bodies of the to the industrial needs of that region? Will he consider kind that he describes. that approach so that we have apprenticeships that are comprehensive and grounded in the real business earth Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): of this country? I am sure that the House will welcome the emphasis on apprenticeships, which shows the Government carrying Mr Hayes: We can learn a lot from the example of on the work that we did. However, does the Minister other countries. Germany is often held up as a shining not think it is shocking that, in figures given to me this example of apprenticeships, and France has also made morning by his colleague the Secretary of State, the immense progress with apprenticeships over the last Government have confirmed the true picture that there quarter of a century. I hear what the hon. Gentleman will be 529,000 fewer adult learners being funded by the says about the link to local businesses and chambers of Government in two years’ time? Does not that show commerce and, as ever, he makes a thoughtful contribution that the emphasis on apprenticeships is being paid for to our affairs. I will certainly take another look at the by cutting opportunity elsewhere? How does that prepare issue to see what can be done to borrow that kind of people for today’s labour market? good practice.

Mr Hayes: The right hon. Gentleman speaks of Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab): opportunity, but it was Baroness Thatcher who said Yesterday, I met a number of apprentices at the excellent that if your only opportunity is to be equal, you have no Fosters bakery in Barnsley, and we welcome any moves opportunity. What he and his colleagues left us with to build on Labour’s record, which rescued apprenticeships was a dull, egalitarian mediocrity. We are going to drive from 65,000 starts in 1997 to 279,000 last year. Will the up standards and skills, and drive growth and prosperity. Minister confirm four simple facts? Will he confirm that, at a time of rising youth unemployment, this Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): Government have dropped Labour’s guarantee of an We just heard from the Minister that more needs to be apprenticeship for every young person who wants done about apprenticeships. Indeed, he wrote to all one? Will he confirm that, at a time of rising adult hon. Members encouraging us to take on an apprentice unemployment, this Government plan to cut the total in our offices. Why then are the Government removing number of adults who get publicly funded training by the requirement for apprenticeship places on Government 500,000 a year? Will he confirm that his Government public investment programmes? have dropped Labour’s policy of saying that those who get public money for social housing must provide Mr Hayes: The work that we are doing on public construction apprenticeships? And will he confirm that sector apprenticeships, in this place and elsewhere, continues. he now plans to make adult apprentices pay between Indeed, I met a shadow Minister—one of her parliamentary £5,000 and £9,000 for the right to do an apprenticeship? colleagues—to talk about apprenticeships and public procurement. The hon. Lady is right—we do need to Mr Hayes: Trying to deal with four questions is a bit drive public sector apprenticeships and we do need to like being at the Woolworth’s pick ’n mix. I will deal lead by example. with the first one only. The apprenticeship offer that we are enshrining in law means very plainly that everyone Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): Last Friday, I saw who secures an apprenticeship place will be funded—not a group of young people who were learning on the job the permissive, meaningless offer that prevailed under in the cultural quarter programme, which is led by the the last Government. The right hon. Gentleman should Royal Opera House and participated in by the Victoria know better. 1117 Oral Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 1118

Mr Denham: I am very sorry, but what the Minister Mr Prisk: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. With has said is not true. If he says that every apprenticeship 87% covered in less than 22 weeks—unlike the progress place will be funded, will he confirm that for adult that we often saw from Labour—there has been positive apprenticeships—those aged over 24—they, not the progress. On the private sector issue, LEPs are specifically Government, will have to pay the cost of their training? business-led, and most encouragingly, in her local LEP, Is that not the truth about this world? On the one hand, eight of the 14 participants—over 60%—are from the those who have little money are asked to pay for the private sector. That is a very good example, which I cost of their own training, while, as the Daily Mail put know other enterprise partnerships intend to follow. it, at the “black and white” party the Tory party— fundraisers, millionaire Tory supporters—paid £3,000 Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): to buy internships at top finance companies. The Minister In their response to the Select Committee report on has one world for himself and his friends and for those LEPs, the Government have said that they will not families who can pay, and a completely different world impose performance management criteria on them. Can for others. the Minister explain just how the performance of LEPs will be monitored and assessed? Mr Hayes: On the night of the “black and white” party, I was at my desk working, actually, and then I Mr Prisk: The whole point about partnerships is that had a half of mild at a working men’s club. local priorities will lead, not central diktat. That is why The truth is that, in a very tough spending round, we we believe in ensuring that we enable partnerships to guaranteed funding for young people, boosted funding come forward and that they judge the issue on how they for 16 to 18-year-olds and boosted funding for adult break down the local barriers to growth. We are committed apprenticeships, and we are seeing real growth. The to ensuring that the economy grows; these will be excellent right hon. Gentleman is right: people over 24 will vehicles to achieve that locally. borrow to invest in their future, but my goodness, the repayments are income-contingent, there are no up-front Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab): Well, payments and, as he knows, it is real value for money. we are clear what LEPs and businesses are asking for, even if Ministers are not. We believe that assets and Local Enterprise Partnerships funding intended for local growth in our regions should stay there. We have put forward a detailed strategy on 2. Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) skills and access to European and regional development (LD): What recent progress he has made in establishing agency money—the tools that LEPs need to do their local enterprise partnerships. [41343] job. But the Secretary of State is not passing any assets on, and is twisting the arms of RDAs over it. Today’s 7. Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con): What recent Local Government Chronicle reveals the west midlands progress he has made in establishing local enterprise RDA disposal plan—more than half its assets up for partnerships. [41348] sale. The north-east regional development plan that I have seen says the RDA has been told that it must help The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation address the fiscal deficit. How can the Secretary of and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): I am pleased to say that we State now deny that he is flogging off our local family are making good progress with regard to local enterprise silver to keep the Treasury happy? Has he not left LEPs partnerships. Indeed, I can announce today that we in the lurch? have cleared the London enterprise partnership. That brings us to a total of 31, covering 87% of England’s Mr Prisk: We got there eventually, Mr Speaker. population. The RDAs have brought forward assets plans, which the Government are looking at. In the growth plan, we Annette Brooke: I thank the Minister for his answer. set out clearly how we will deal with them. The idea that Naturally I am rather disappointed that Dorset has not we will be selling off the silver is a nonsense. I am sorry yet found a solution. May I have an update on progress that Labour Members have nothing positive or intelligent towards the inclusion of Dorset within a local enterprise to say about the matter. partnership? What timelines are the Government working to? If it is necessary for support to be given, will that be Entrepreneurship given?

Mr Prisk: As the hon. Lady knows and we have 3. Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): What discussed, Dorset has the challenge that Poole and steps he is taking to encourage entrepreneurship. Bournemouth face eastwards economically but the rest [41344] of the county does not. So we have worked with local partners, and offered them an opportunity: once they The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and have decided, they will come back to us and we will help Skills (Vince Cable): The Government have actively to ensure that they progress with their enterprise partnership encouraged enterprise, including doubling the amount as quickly as possible. of small business rate relief for one year, launching the new enterprise allowance, and initiating a new programme Fiona Bruce: Can the Minister advise on the timings in universities, Enterprising Academics. With support of the announcements of the agreement of new LEPs? and practical input from my entrepreneurs group, I am How is he guaranteeing private sector leadership for developing further measures to support entrepreneurship LEPs? around employment regulation and start-ups. 1119 Oral Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 1120

Jason McCartney: I thank the Secretary of State for Vince Cable: The figures will be independently monitored that answer. I welcome, as do my constituents, the new by the Bank of England and published quarterly. My enterprise allowance—in fact, my constituents have been right hon. Friend makes a helpful suggestion, and I will asking me about that for the long-term unemployed. A examine whether the figures can be disaggregated in recent graduate from Slaithwaite also asked me whether that way. we might extend the scheme to recent graduates, to take advantage of their skills, especially if they have studied Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): Will the Secretary business or engineering. of State assure me that he will take no lessons on the banking system from the shadow Chancellor, who designed Vince Cable: That is an excellent suggestion, which the system that failed us so badly, and who did nothing we will pursue. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the new to encourage transparency and control bonuses? Will enterprise allowance is being trialled in Liverpool, and he ensure that banks start to lend to small businesses? will give people who would otherwise face long periods Vince Cable: Indeed. In not only the agreement but of unemployment the opportunity to start their own our wider policy, we have advanced considerably on the businesses with financial support, mentoring and access position a year ago. We inherited a banking system that to loans. It is a very good scheme, which I want to had collapsed, in part because of failures of regulation. encourage and expand. We have introduced much more effective and higher levels of tax on the banks, because of the profits on Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): How their balance sheets. We have introduced greater will the Secretary of State respond to the wonderful transparency, which will add to legislation. Through the report on creative clusters in our country launched banking commission, we have set up a process of yesterday by National Endowment for Science, Technology fundamental structural reform. and the Arts? The report shows again that 6% of new businesses create 50% of new jobs, but that most of the Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op): On clusters are in London and the south-east. As he is Government action to encourage lending, we see this stripping the capacity to do anything about that in week that, thanks to lack of regulation, Dollar Financial Yorkshire, which is performing at a low level, what will intends to open another 800 money shops in this country he do about it? this year alone. Will the Secretary of State clarify whether such legal loan sharking is the lending that he wants to Vince Cable: As it happens, under the growth review encourage? that Ministers are conducting, yesterday we reviewed the creative industry sector to which the hon. Gentleman Vince Cable: There is a consultation process going on refers. The sector has serious problems of access to at the moment led by my colleague, the Under-Secretary, finance, because of lack of tangible security, and issues my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton around copyright protection. We are pursuing both (Mr Davey), and we shall respond to it shortly. Clearly, those issues, and if we can crack them, it will help it is essential that we have lending in deprived communities, creative industries across the country. with social enterprise and credit unions, and we are working to expand those areas. Bank Lending Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): Last week, the man chosen by the Secretary of State to 4. Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) lead his business advisory group and to be his very own (LD): What recent progress he has made in his discussions sounding board resigned because of the Government’s with representatives of the banking industry on increasing deal with the banks. Can the Secretary of State tell the levels of lending to small and medium-sized enterprises. House whether he agrees with his noble Friend Lord [41345] Oakeshott that the Government have gone soft on the banks, that the Merlin lending deal does not live up to 16. Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): What recent the coalition agreement and that the Government progress he has made in his discussions with representatives negotiators were arrogant, incompetent and of the banking industry on increasing levels of lending “couldn’t negotiate their way out of a paper bag.”? to small and medium-sized enterprises. [41357] Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that Lord Oakeshott The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and has taken over his former mantle as the Lib Dem voice Skills (Vince Cable): As announced last week in the of decency on the banks and, as The Independent says: House by the Chancellor, the UK’s five major banks “Is Lord Oakeshott the new Vince Cable?” have stated a capacity and willingness to lend £190 billion Vince Cable: I do indeed agree with my friend Lord of new credit to business in 2011. That includes £76 billion Oakeshott on many issues, including what he says about of new lending to SMEs, which is a 15% increase on the banking, but on this issue I think he is wrong. May I amount lent in 2010. If demand exceeds that, the banks suggest that a more authoritative view comes from the will lend more. business organisations whose members will benefit from lending? For example, the CBI—often quoted these Simon Hughes: I warmly welcome my right hon. days from the Opposition Benches: Friend’s work and the Government’s announcement. To have maximum transparency, will Ministers negotiate “It’s good news that banks have agreed to lend more to businesses, and there will be more transparency in this area.” with the banks for the figures on lending to small and medium-sized businesses to be published by principal The FSB says that local authority area on a regular basis, so that we can “we welcome the intention to lend more to small businesses.” see exactly what is happening throughout the country? They are the people who are benefiting. 1121 Oral Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 1122

Low-emission Vehicles Mr Prisk: Clearly, the bank needs to work on a commercial basis. We are making very good progress with the proposals on it and we shall set them out in 5. Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab): What May. steps he is taking to encourage the manufacture of low-emission vehicles. [41346] Regional Growth Fund

The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation 9. Chris Kelly (Dudley South) (Con): What criteria he and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): Our aim is to make the used to determine appointments to the independent United Kingdom a leader in the research, development advisory panel for the regional growth fund. [41350] and manufacture of low and ultra-low carbon vehicles. To this end, we have a comprehensive plan supporting The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and major investment by companies, funding for research Skills (Vince Cable): The selection of panel members and development, consumer incentives and investment was rooted in ensuring that the independent advisory in infrastructure. panel is mixed, with a good spread of expertise from around the country, bringing together representatives Margaret Curran: I thank the Minister for that reply. from major businesses, small and medium-sized enterprises, Is he aware of the Glasgow company, Allied Vehicles, entrepreneurs, academia and civil society. All members which is leading the way in production of electric cars in of the panel act in an individual capacity under the Scotland? I am sure that he is aware of Nissan’s role in chairmanship of Lord Heseltine. the field and its comments that the Labour Government’s grant for business investment had ensured the manufacture Chris Kelly: I thank the Secretary of State for that of the Leaf car in the UK, creating 100 jobs and answer, but can he explain why a representative of the producing 600 vehicles. Will he tell the House precisely New Economics Foundation has been appointed to the how much investment the Government have set aside panel? That organisation has attacked the merits of for the manufacture of electric cars throughout the economic growth and argued that Burma, Saudi Arabia United Kingdom? and Haiti show Sweden, the United States and the United Kingdom that achieving long, happy lives without Mr Prisk: We are putting in more than £300 million overstretching the planet’s resources is possible. Might to make sure that hybrid and electric vehicles are it not have been better to appoint someone to oversee progressing, both with Ford and with Nissan. That is the regional growth fund from an organisation that important both as grant and as a form of finance supports growth? guarantee. As the hon. Lady knows, Glasgow is a new beneficiary of our new investment in the plug-in places Vince Cable: The organisation is there to support programme, which is important. I look forward to its growth. The suggestion that my hon. Friend mentions progressing. seems seriously dotty, but I have seen other work from the New Economics Foundation, focusing on local communities, which is very good. I can assure him that Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD): Lotus Cars, the advisory panel’s work will be overseen by Lord based just south of Norwich, has a worldwide reputation Heseltine and Sir Ian Wrigglesworth, neither of whom for innovation in low-emission vehicle technology. Lotus could be said to be shirking on matters of business and has submitted a bid to the regional growth fund, which entrepreneurship. if successful will enable the company significantly to increase its operations in the UK, providing hundreds Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): Given of new jobs. Does the Minister share my enthusiasm for that the Government have said that they will be the the ambition behind Lotus’s bid, which so clearly greenest Government ever, can the Secretary of State demonstrates how the regional growth fund is encouraging give an assurance that panel members will include people manufacturing companies to think boldly? with expertise on sustainable development and environmental protection, so that there can be a balance Mr Prisk: The hon. Gentleman is right. Lotus is one with growth and environmental concerns? of several excellent premier brands in motor engineering in this country. I shall not comment on the specific bid, Vince Cable: In a way, that is what the New Economics because there are several to hand at the moment, but Foundation is there for. the hon. Gentleman is right to say that we have real opportunities in the sector. The Government are an Export Licences effective partner in making sure that the sector grows. 10. Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con): what assessment Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ his Department has made of the administrative burden Co-op): The Minister made mention of the need to on businesses of the process for issuing export licences. invest in the sector and he is right; we need investment [41351] in all the greener technologies. That is why the establishment of the green investment bank is so important. It is The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation almost a year since the election, so may I urge the and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): Export licensing needs to Government to get a move on with the establishment of be thorough, especially where there are sensitive locations the green investment bank? Can the Minister give us an or uses. However, it is important that the Government update on when he expects it to be operating and continue to focus on keeping the costs to business down investing in those important technologies? and we intend to do that. 1123 Oral Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 1124

Karen Lumley: Small businesses in my constituency Mr Willetts: As we heard so eloquently from the of Redditch wishing to export to China have been Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong victims of excessive red tape and delays in securing an Learning, the coalition Government are absolutely export licence. One company has been waiting for months committed to apprenticeships. It would be a mistake to in respect of an order from China that would generate hold the view that apprenticeships and places in higher revenue and employment for the west midlands. Will education are in conflict. Indeed some apprentices may the Minister take steps to reduce administration burdens subsequently go on to university and benefit from a on small and medium-sized enterprises and meet me university course, too. and the company affected? Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): Can the Minister Mr Prisk: I should be more than happy to meet my give an estimate of the likely shortage of funded places hon. Friend. As she knows, two thirds of all applications at university in the next academic year? Can he square are dealt with within 20 working days, but as she will that estimate with his desire to get young people from appreciate this is sensitive equipment to a sensitive deprived backgrounds into university? location. We need to ensure that we license only legitimate Mr Willetts: We have committed to repeat the initiative exports in these circumstances. I am pleased to say, this year with 10,000 extra places at university. Current however, that in this instance the licence has been indications are that applications are running perhaps granted. about 5% higher than at a similar point last year, but we will have to see what the eventual figure is. As the right Higher Education hon. Gentleman used to say when he was in government, application to university has always been a competitive 13. Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): what his process. No individual place can be guaranteed but we policy is on widening access to higher education for are committed to broadening access to university. students from disadvantaged backgrounds; and if he Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): In will make a statement. [41354] the last month, the Secretary of State’s Department has confirmed that another 10,000 student places are set to 20. Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD): what his policy be axed. We now know that his national scholarship is on widening access to higher education for students programme will help under 2% of students. The logic of from disadvantaged backgrounds; and if he will make a his rhetoric on access would have us all believe that statement. [41361] Oxford and Cambridge are to be the last universities in England allowed to charge the full £9,000, which nobody The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David thinks is credible. In his mind, the Secretary of State Willetts): This Government are committed to social may well still be “St Vince”, but with Corporal Jones mobility. That is why our higher education reforms have from Havant and Private Pike from Southwark and no payments up-front, more generous maintenance support Bermondsey by his side is he not really just Captain and the extension of loans to part-time students. Last Mainwaring, bumbling along out of his depth with all week we gave updated guidance to the director of fair his best moments long since past? access about access agreements and outlined details of our £150 million national scholarship programme. Mr Willetts: We’re not panicking; we’re not panicking. In fact, it is Labour Members who left us with a situation whereby access to our leading, most research- Mr Wilson: I thank my right hon. Friend for that intensive universities for people from the poorest answer and for the additional support to disadvantaged backgrounds was declining. That is the challenge that students. In a report, the Sutton Trust has described we are tackling. I do not recognise the hon. Gentleman’s university entrance quotas as figure of 10,000 fewer places, as there are extra places. “a punitive measure against talent and effort” That is perhaps why the National Union of Students, in and argued that no child should be denied a university a leaked e-mail this morning, apparently described our place because of their social or educational background. reforms as “relatively progressive”. Does he agree with that view and will he clearly rule out any move towards the social engineering of university Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con): The university admissions? centre Hastings is doing some excellent work with children from poorer families who want to go on to higher Mr Willetts: We in the coalition Government do not education. It is very concerned about the future of believe in quotas, for the reasons that my hon. Friend higher education for them and asked me to inquire rightly sets out. They would be not only undesirable but about the national scholarship fund and what more can illegal because the autonomy of universities in running be done to help children on free school meals when they their own admissions arrangements has legal protection. leave school and might need some assistance. Mr Willetts: Absolutely. When the national scholarship Gordon Birtwistle: Will my right hon. Friend congratulate programme is mature, it will be worth £150 million a Burnley college, which is operating in a disadvantaged year. With match funding, which we expect the universities area, on its event last Friday, when dozens of companies to provide, it could offer—contrary to the assertions of met scores of young people who wish to take up Labour Members—extra financial support to up to apprenticeships in engineering? Does he agree that that 100,000 students. It could work in various ways, providing is the right way to go and that the coalition Government help with accommodation costs, fee waivers and extra are repairing the damage following the destruction of direct financial assistance, which we think is a very manufacturing engineering by the previous Government? practical way of helping students from poorer backgrounds. 1125 Oral Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 1126

Construction Sector responsible for the citizens advice service, what action has he taken to ensure a coherent strategy across 14. Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): What assessment government to safeguard the full range of funding that he has made of the likely effects on the construction the service receives from different Government sector of the outcome of the comprehensive spending Departments? At the moment, he seems to be abandoning review. [41355] the service, like the hireling shepherd leading out the injured lamb to be torn apart limb by limb by its The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation predators. and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): The comprehensive spending review set out our plans for £200 billion of investment Mr Davey: I do not think I have been promoted. over the next 10 years as part of the first national However, I can reassure the hon. Lady that we are infrastructure plan. This was welcomed by many in the taking a cross-Government approach to the funding of construction sector. citizens advice bureaux. That is why the Department has been so strong in making sure that national funding Chris Evans: Does the Minister agree with Steve Morgan for the National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux, of Redrow when he says that the new homes bonus which supplies technology and IT for all local bureaux, scheme is unlikely to prompt councils to approve more has been maintained, and I would have thought that she homes? welcomed the extra money—£27 million—announced by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State at the Mr Prisk: A number of benefits are being put forward weekend, for which she and others have been calling. for home building and for construction as a whole. The key issue with the housing market is whether the demand Post Boxes is there. That is the challenge: we will do our bit, but the market will need to operate as well. 19. Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): If he will take steps to require Royal Mail to ensure the retention Legal Aid of the (a) colour of and (b) royal monogram on post boxes. [41360] 18. Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): What assessment he has made of the potential effects on The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, requirements for support from his Department by Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): Royal Mail citizens advice bureaux of planned reductions in the has publicly stated that it cherishes its distinctive and provision of legal aid. [41359] much-loved red post boxes and that it is absolutely committed to ensuring that they remain a distinctive The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, part of our communities. The Government believe Royal Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): My Department Mail should continue to use the royal cypher on post does not provide core funding for individual citizens boxes and we are in discussions with the palace about advice bureaux; it provides it only for the national that. umbrella bodies of which they are all members. However, we are aware of the challenges facing bureaux from Mr Hollobone: The red pillar box is one of the great funding cuts at both the national and local level, including symbols of our great nation, and it would be a national from the proposals on legal aid funding, and we are shame if pillar boxes were to disappear as a result of working closely with colleagues in the Ministry of Justice privatisation. Will the Minister require the Royal Mail and other Departments across government that have an to keep red pillar boxes, or ensure that some form of interest in the citizens advice service. listed heritage status is applied to them so that we do not lose this great British symbol? Yasmin Qureshi: As the Minister will be aware, citizens advice bureaux are suffering pressures not just from Mr Davey: I share my hon. Friend’s interest in red cuts to the legal aid budget but across Departments that post boxes, so I visited the British postal museum and are cutting services. How many citizens advice bureaux archive only last week, and I can tell him that Britain’s does he think will be cut as a result of the spending review? post boxes were originally green, but the public complained that they were too camouflaged, so chocolate brown Mr Davey: As I said in my initial response, funding was tried instead. That colour required too much paint, for local citizens advice bureaux is up to local authorities. however, so we ended up with red, and we are on the The Department for Communities and Local Government fifth shade of red. I can also tell my hon. Friend that it has made it clear that the voluntary sector, including would cost almost £1.7 million to repaint the nation’s citizens advice bureaux, should not be hit disproportionately. 115,000 post boxes, and given that Royal Mail has I hope the hon. Lady will welcome the fact that the 300 litres of red paint in stock I think he can sleep easily national bodies Citizens Advice and Citizens Advice in his bed at night about the colour of our post boxes. Scotland have had their funding for next year maintained at current levels. I hope she will also welcome the Mr Speaker: We have now learned more about post announcement this weekend by my right hon. Friend boxes and the Minister’s travel plans and personal interests, the Secretary of State that we will supply £27 million of for which we are grateful. funding for face-to-face debt advice next year. Employment Growth Strategy Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): The Secretary of State will be well aware of the devastating impact that the 21. Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD): What his cuts to legal aid will have on citizens advice bureaux Department’s strategy for employment growth is for across the country, leaving many people without the areas that have a high proportion of public sector advice they desperately need. As the Cabinet Minister employment. [41362] 1127 Oral Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 1128

The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and part of this, we recently launched a consultation on Skills (Vince Cable): The Government’s overriding economic employment tribunal reform and the employer’s charter, policy objective is to bring about strong, balanced and both aimed at increasing business confidence to take sustainable growth. The growth review will support on, and manage, staff. private sector growth, providing jobs to people released from the public sector. The regional growth fund will Mark Pawsey: On Friday I met business leaders in my focus on providing financial support to areas with weak constituency, Rugby, who told me that the matter of private sectors, and we will announce the first allocation greatest concern to them is that too many work force of funds shortly. disputes, often without foundation, are taken to the employment tribunal. Fear of such action is acting as a Mr Ward: I thank the Secretary of State for that deterrent to employment. Can the Minister update us answer. If the Department for Business, Innovation and on when the new proposals will come into effect? Skills is the Department of growth, then the Department for Communities and Local Government must be the Mr Davey: As the hon. Gentleman knows, we recently Department for cuts. If we treat communities—or published the consultation, “Resolving workplace disputes”. individuals—who are unequal as equal, we reinforce I urge him to ask businesses in his constituency to inequality. I welcome many of the measures that have respond to that consultation because we want to ensure been announced, but they are national measures. Are that the current system, which I believe is bad for any special measures in place for communities that employers and employees, is reformed. suffered from the front-loading of the cuts as a result of the local government settlement? Topical Questions

Vince Cable: I know that my hon. Friend has worked Departmental Responsibilities extremely hard for the community he represents, which is a deprived area with relatively high unemployment. T1. [41367] Simon Kirby (Brighton, Kemptown) (Con): We would hope that specific tailored measures will If he will make a statement on his departmental come from the Leeds city region local enterprise partnership, responsibilities. which covers that area. The funding announcement on the regional growth fund is imminent, and it is often The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and forgotten that, as a result of our negotiations with the Skills (Vince Cable): My Department has a key role in banks, the business growth fund has an additional supporting business to deliver growth, rebalancing the £2.5 billion, which will support private sector development economy, bringing enterprise, manufacturing, training, across the country, including in my hon. Friend’s area. learning and research closer together, and in the process creating a stronger, fairer British economy. Apprenticeships Simon Kirby: Given its proximity to London and its 23. John Stevenson (Carlisle) (Con): How many highly skilled work force, does the Secretary of State apprenticeship starts there have been in the academic agree that Brighton is a great place to do business? Will year 2010-11 to date. [41364] he consider relocating some of his staff and office use to this most excellent city? The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning (Mr John Hayes): I refer my hon. Friend to The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation the answer I gave earlier. and Skills (Mr Mark Prisk): My hon. Friend is right. Brighton has tremendous economic advantages. We John Stevenson: Carlisle has five major factories, as will, of course, as a Government and as a Department, well as many small ones, and they all need a skilled consider those for our own purposes. work force. Does the Minister agree that the expansion of apprenticeships is vital to fill the gaps in our economy, Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab): Workers and that apprenticeships must get the status they deserve? at Longbenton Foods in North Tyneside have been locked out of their frozen food factory this week and Mr Hayes: Yes, we must drive up their status; we must have been asked to take enforced holiday by the owners. elevate the practical. The aesthetic of apprenticeships More than two years ago the Labour Government matters, and I am determined to ensure that those who stepped in to help the factory with grants when a fire achieve vocational, practical and technical competence closed it, and thus saved the jobs for the work force. As are as revered as—indeed, perhaps more revered than—we we try to ascertain what the current problems are, can who pursued the academic route. the Minister assure me that, like his Labour predecessors, he will make a commitment to give any support he can Small Businesses (Recruitment) to all those concerned in trying to ensure that those crucial jobs are maintained in my constituency? 24. Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): What steps his Department is taking to make it easier for small Mr Prisk: These are always difficult times for people businesses to recruit staff. [41365] in the situation the hon. Lady describes. Would she do me the courtesy of providing me with the information? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, My Department will look at it. She knows that money is Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): The Government tight, for reasons that we are all aware of, but I want to are reviewing employment laws to provide the flexibility make sure that I understand the facts, then I will give that businesses need and support economic growth. As her an answer. 1129 Oral Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 1130

T2. [41368] Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): Does cars. Can my hon. Friend reassure me that the UK will my right hon. Friend agree that tackling vexatious be at the front and centre of this new industrial employment claims and introducing more flexibility for revolution, and not lose out as we have done in other employers will encourage the growth of jobs and a areas in the past? sustainable economy? Mr Prisk: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That is The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and why, unlike in other European countries, nine electric Skills (Vince Cable): The response that the Under-Secretary models will be available over the next year and why we of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and are leading on electric manufacture. It is why we are Surbiton (Mr Davey), gave to the hon. Member for investing in consumer incentives and infrastructure. It is Rugby (Mark Pawsey) a few moments ago answers the a vital market. We are working on it. question. The consultation process is under way. We want to deal with the problem that the hon. Member for Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): Auto Windscreens Enfield North (Nick de Bois) raises, which is a big one, went into administration on Monday.If the administrators in two ways—first, by increasing the period of employment do not find a buyer quickly, 1,100 people will lose their from one to two years before claims can be made, and, jobs. The Minister has been too busy to intervene secondly, by insisting that all disputes that go to tribunals personally and now his Department has passed the should go through a conciliation stage first. matter over to the Department for Work and Pensions. Under Labour, the regional development agency would Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): As the Secretary have taken on a role of cross-co-ordination. Has the of State is considering banking reform, may I ask him failure of the cross-agency co-ordination approach not what discussions he has had both with the Northern let down those 1,100 workers, and why has the Department Ireland Executive and with the Irish Government regarding washed its hands of the matter by turning it into a the impact that the National Asset Management Agency pensions and benefits issue? is having on the banking sector in Northern Ireland? Mr Prisk: I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman is Vince Cable: I have not had any specific discussions being slightly churlish. He spoke to me only two days of the kind that the hon. Lady suggests, but it would ago, when I made it clear that my Department would probably be appropriate for the Chancellor to do so. check the facts. We have done that. The Department for Clearly, there is an important Irish dimension because Work and Pensions is already in contact with the company. of the way in which British banks are heavily exposed to We are ensuring that we understand both the job issues Irish banks. and the company issues. We are very happy to work with all Members, so I am sorry that he has chosen to be somewhat churlish on this occasion. T3. [41369] Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Weald) (Con): What plans does the Secretary of State T5. [41372] Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con): The have to promote gender balance in business, and what UK dairy industry is in crisis, with farmers receiving is his view on imposed quotas? from supermarkets 3p per litre less than the cost of production. This is leading to pressures to intensify Vince Cable: The Government are not in favour of dairy farming that are most concerning on grounds of imposed quotas, but the detailed proposals will shortly animal welfare and the environment. Will the Minister come forward. As the hon. Lady knows, a report is close update the House on plans to introduce a grocery code to fruition and will be announced in a few days. It will adjudicator, as announced in the coalition agreement? advance the issue of greater women representation on boards, which has been shamefully low for many years. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr Edward Davey): I certainly Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): Two days can. We hope to publish the draft Bill before Easter. ago, with colleagues, I met the business leaders who are board members of Sheffield city regional local enterprise Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): Does the partnership. They are enthusiastic about their task but Minister plan to switch higher education numbers to bemused by the lack of clarity about the powers, low-cost courses in further education colleges, as recently responsibilities and resources they will have to undertake reported in the Financial Times, and, if so, what modelling it. Can the Minister tell the House when that will be has his Department done on the effect on student clarified? choice and possible increased social segregation?

Mr Prisk: We are setting out the proposals clearly. The Minister for Universities and Science (Mr David They are also in the local growth White Paper. We have Willetts): There are further education colleges across written to the boards and we are having a summit of all the country that are keen to deliver more higher education, the board leaders together. There are various things and the coalition Government believe that that is an that Sheffield will want to do and Leeds will want to do, opportunity that they should be able to take up, provided which are different in other areas. We want to make sure they meet the necessary standards. that we do not strangle that initiative. T6. [41373] Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con): T4. [41371] Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) Do the Government agree that universities should be (Con): The market for electric cars is estimated to be free to admit students on the basis of academic merit worth $2 trillion. Israel has resolved to make its road without interference from the Government, and, if so, transport fossil fuel-free by 2020 and has the largest car why are they intent on more regulation and meddling dealership on earth in the north of Tel Aviv for electric in the freedom of university admissions? 1131 Oral Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 1132

Mr Willetts: As I explained earlier, universities are of Leadership Council, and we held a reception in Parliament course free to control their own admissions and must for all Members to understand its impact. We have a have that freedom. Universities have always assessed number of important studies on exports and on trade, students not only by what they have already achieved, making sure that investment is forthcoming, and we are but by their potential to achieve in future. They have determined to ensure an effective partnership between often made that judgment informally and we support industry and Government so that there is growth. them in continuing to do so. Chris Ruane (Vale of Clwyd) (Lab): What is the Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): In answer to an earlier Minister’s definition of the big society, and what role is question, the Minister talked about the development of his Department playing in it? electric vehicles. Is the Department looking at encouraging the development and take-up of a hybrid version with a Mr Davey: I believe that the whole point of the big petrol back-up, rather than a traditional hybrid, to deal society is to give people the permission and the support with the problem of range in rural areas? to engage in their local community and to show responsibility. I would have thought that the hon. Mr Prisk: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. Gentleman and other Opposition Members supported That is why, although electric vehicles are crucial, we something that plays to the best traditions of our country. are not focusing simply on one technology. Hybrid and plug-in hybrid vehicles are a crucial part of that, which T9. [41376] Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con): I have is why we are ensuring that the office for low-emission mentioned in the House before my constituency’s vehicles is looking at all technologies, especially in the excellent Daresbury science and innovation campus, rural context. which really is a world-class centre for hi-tech entrepreneurship. Daresbury recently bid for a share of T7. [41374] Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): the £1.4 million regional growth fund. Can the Ministers will be aware of the great potential of the Minister assure me that that bid will be looked upon Humber region for expanding the renewable energy favourably? sector, as was confirmed by the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry) in a Mr Willetts: I am aware of the strengths of that Westminster Hall debate yesterday. It is essential that excellent campus, and I am sorry that business in the small and medium-sized enterprises are given every House meant that I was not able to visit the other day, support and opportunity to benefit fully from such as I had hoped. I will visit very soon. Of course, there major developments. What additional measures are have been many bids for the regional growth fund, but Ministers considering for achieving that? in that way or in others I hope that we can continue to support my hon. Friend’s facility. Mr Prisk: We are seeing growth in that area, not least because of the Government’s leadership in ensuring Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): that investment is forthcoming. My hon. Friend is absolutely Government Front Benchers have today stated their right about small businesses, and the key is supply intention to extend from one year to two a worker’s chains. We are working with the industry to ensure that right to claim unfair dismissal, but, in industries such as the major primes work with the smaller businesses so construction, where tens of thousands of workers who that everyone can participate, in the Humber and elsewhere. have worked for many years for the same employer do not even have a written contract, what is the Secretary Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): Does the Minister of State doing to enforce such basic employment rights agree that volunteering is a good way for young people before he starts taking workers’ other rights away? to gain skills, build confidence and gain qualifications and contacts to assist them in finding work? Does he Mr Davey: We do not propose to take away all the share my concern that funding for youth volunteering rights to which the hon. Lady refers. We are approaching projects has been cut completely and that v projects will our employment law in terms of ensuring fairness for close in March? employees and that businesses have the freedom and flexibility to take on more people. I would have thought The Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong that she welcomed the fact that we want to reduce the Learning (Mr John Hayes): Volunteering is an important dole queues by ensuring proper employment reform. way of giving people a taster, which can then lead to employment or to further learning. I agree that we need Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD): I greatly welcome this to do more work on the matter, and I am very happy to week’s news that the directors of Farepak and its parent discuss it further. As a result of the hon. Lady’s question, company have been disqualified, and I am sure that the I shall ask my officials to come back to me, and then I whole House, alongside all the families who lost money, shall return to the issue, through her, and to the House. will do, too. What can we do now to ensure that companies like that are not able to bleed their subsidiaries T8. [41375] Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con): What of savers’ and families’ money? efforts is the Minister’s Department making to support and to promote the marine industry in the UK? Mr Davey: Disqualification proceedings have been issued against the nine directors on the grounds that Mr Prisk: We are working hard to ensure that the their conduct makes him or her unfit to be concerned in sector, which is a £10 billion industry by sales, is able to the management of a company, so I am afraid that my grow. That is why I am co-chairing the Marine Industries hon. Friend’s remarks are slightly premature. 1133 Oral Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Oral Answers 1134

Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): Will at the university of Nottingham, who tell me that they the Minister explain how the Government can possibly are concerned about increasing incidents of anti-Semitism hope to promote access by cutting the teaching budget and racial incitement by guest speakers at university for universities by 80%? As a result, universities will campuses. Will the Minister take steps to support the have to charge £7,500 simply to stand still. Rather than implementation of speaker policy guidelines in universities attacking the autonomy of universities with Whitehall across the UK to help student unions and vice-chancellors over-interference, why do the Government not invest to deal effectively with guest speaker invitations and the requisite public resources in our great universities? prevent incidents of hate speech and intimidation?

Mr Willetts: The hon. Gentleman cites a figure that Mr Willetts: I have discussed this with representatives even the NUS no longer accepts as viable. He seems to of Jewish students. It is a challenge for universities, and have failed to understand the fundamental feature of the hon. Lady is right to raise it. We will continue to be our reforms, which is that the money will continue to absolutely emphatic on the rights of individual students reach universities but via the choices of students. That to enjoy freedom without facing harassment and abuse, is the right way in which to finance them. which, sadly, has been occurring. Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): Sixteen Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): Perhaps, like months ago, the Office of Fair Trading declined to me, Ministers can recall how it felt to be among one of investigate ferry services to the Isle of Wight. Many the last to be picked for a team in a game of schoolyard islanders feel that the ferry operators view the OFT’s football. The experience is very similar for some areas decision as carte blanche to cut services and to change wishing to join local enterprise partnerships. Can the their pricing structure. Will the Minister agree to meet Minister reassure residual LEPs in smaller areas that me and a small group of my constituents to discuss they will still have fair access to regionally administered those matters? skills funding? Mr Davey: I am not aware of that OFT report from 16 months ago, but I will meet the hon. Gentleman to Mr Prisk: Last but not least. I assure the hon. Gentleman discuss it. that the 13% figure is often driven by the need for local partners to get their arrangements right. We are standing Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): I thank the Secretary ready. We know that these partnerships can help local of State and his Ministers for what they have been growth right across England, right across London, and trying to do in talking sense into Devon and Somerset in his constituency as well. over our local enterprise partnership, and suggest that perhaps west Dorset might like to come in with us as a Mrs Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): We found solution to the problem mentioned by the hon. Member out this morning that Wonga, the payday lender, has for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke). raised £73 million to expand its operations across the However, Exeter is still being completely excluded from country into even more communities. When are this this process. Will the Minister not sign off the draft Government going to get a grip on these legal loan LEP until Exeter is guaranteed either a business or a sharks? local authority seat on the partnership board? Mr Davey: As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of Mr Prisk: We have made it very clear that all partners State said earlier, we are waiting to respond to the must be engaged in this process, and I am grateful to the consultation on consumer credit and personal insolvency, right hon. Gentleman for participating in it. I am talking which will deal with all aspects of consumer credit. I am to the partners involved, and I have made it clear that not aware of the particular point that the hon. Lady has they must ensure that this is a genuine, lasting partnership made, but when we respond I hope that she will welcome that will help our local economies to grow. our ideas. Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): I thank the Department and the Minister for all the work they are Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): In towns such as doing to secure jobs on the Pfizer site in Sandwich. Bedford, there is a tremendous opportunity for small What is his vision in securing those jobs and a future for business men and women to support start-ups and the site in the science area? entrepreneurs in their local communities with time, advice and money. Will the Minister consider ways in Mr Willetts: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. This is which he can support such community-led efforts to a very serious challenge that we face, and we are doing promote jobs and enterprise in local communities? our best to tackle it. Yesterday I met the leader of Kent county council and other members of his taskforce, and Mr Prisk: My hon. Friend exactly describes the great last week I visited and met members of the work force. role of local enterprise partnerships, which provide the We are absolutely committed to the future of that site opportunity to forge together not only entrepreneurs and believe that it should be possible for a range of but angel investors and local civic leaders. We are different research organisations to be active on it. The determined to grow the economy; the Opposition have site should have a great future. nothing to offer. I am sorry that they are not prepared to listen and learn. They had 13 years in which we Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): I recently watched many parts of England and Wales fall behind. met representatives from the Union of Jewish Students We are determined to ensure that that is not the case. 1135 17 FEBRUARY 2011 Bahrain 1136

Bahrain We will always encourage Bahrain and other countries to take further steps that meet legitimate aspirations for greater political and social freedoms. As I said in my 11.34 am statement on Monday, Britain will continue to send a Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab) (Urgent constant message to Governments of the region about Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign how important it is to move in the direction of more and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement open and flexible political systems and sound economic on Bahrain. development, while always respecting the different cultures, histories and traditions of each nation. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr William Hague): Last night at approximately Mr MacShane: I am grateful to the Foreign Secretary 3.30 am local time, Bahraini police moved into the Pearl for coming to answer this urgent question himself, and roundabout area of Bahrain’s capital city, Manama, to for bringing his ministerial team. Does he agree that a clear an encampment of protesters. The Bahraini Ministry wind of change is blowing through the Arab world—first of the Interior claims that the protesters were asked to Egypt, Tunisia and Yemen, and now Libya, Algeria and move before force was used. Other reports say that the the terrible news of deaths and hospitals filled with the police moved in without warning, using tear gas and wounded as the autocrats of Bahrain seek to crush their rubber bullets. Two people have been confirmed dead people’s hopes? [Interruption.] I hear sneers from the and there are reports of further casualties. The police Government Benches. Momentous changes are under and the Bahrain defence force have moved to secure key way as big as those of 90 years ago after Lawrence areas in Bahrain, particularly the Pearl roundabout in arrived in Aqaba. Manama and neighbouring districts. Seven thousand British citizens live in Bahrain, and This morning, there are further reports of sporadic UK exports to Bahrain are worth £500 million. Last clashes and unconfirmed reports of further deaths. week, the Foreign Secretary visited Bahrain. Did he There has also been a large gathering outside the hospital have contact with the pro-democracy opposition or was where the injured were taken. Traffic is severely disrupted the purpose of his mission simply to be a latter-day in Manama and there are reports of stockpile shopping. Castlereagh, upholding conservative monarchs in the There are no reports of other areas to the west and region? Why is there no statement on the Foreign and south of Bahrain being affected. Commonwealth Office website with even the tiniest hint We are not aware of any UK nationals having been from the Foreign Secretary to the rulers of Bahrain that caught up in the violence so far. We are advising all they must move with the times—or does he chastise British nationals to stay away from protests and to only the Israeli Government? Does he agree that all avoid all but essential travel around Bahrain. The airport political detainees must be released now? in Manama continues to function normally, but we will Will the Foreign Secretary confirm that late last year, of course keep the situation under review and ensure his FCO ministerial colleagues signed off on exports to that British nationals in Bahrain receive full consular Bahrain of tear gas, irritant ammunition, riot control support. equipment and other matériel used to crush democracy? We have conveyed our concern about these events Will he tell the House that there will be no more exports and the level of violence to the Government of Bahrain. of such matériel from Britain? Will he confirm that the We are greatly concerned about the deaths that have Register of Members’ Financial Interests shows that occurred. This morning, I spoke to the Foreign Minister Ministers, while in opposition, were on a regular gravy of Bahrain and last night our ambassador spoke to the train to Bahrain, paid for by the rulers of the statelet? Minister of the Interior. In both cases, we stressed the Does he agree that it would be better if the financial need for peaceful action to address the concerns of links between Bahrain and Members of this House protesters, and the importance of respect for the rights were now suspended? to peaceful protest and freedom of expression. It is also Finally, does the Foreign Secretary agree that almost essential that all those who are injured have immediate a century of British policy, supported by Governments access to medical treatment. We urge all sides to avoid of all parties, based on turning a blind eye to the violence and for the police to exercise restraint. The repression and corruption of the regimes in this region Bahraini Government should move quickly to carry out may be coming to an end? Will he therefore agree to a their commitment to a transparent investigation into wide review of UK foreign policy in the region before it earlier deaths, and extend that to include today’s events is too late, and reverse the cuts to the BBC and the and any alleged human rights abuses. British Council, so that Britain can be more and not less I also said to the Foreign Minister that this is a time present, and on the side of democracy and decency in to build bridges between the different religious communities the region for the first time in generations? in Bahrain. I said that we would strongly oppose any interference in the affairs of Bahrain by other nations Mr Hague: If I may respond to the substantive parts or any action to inflame sectarian tensions between of the right hon. Gentleman’s question, Britain is of Bahrain’s Sunni and Shi’a communities. We recognise course on the side of decency and democracy everywhere that Bahrain has made important political reforms alongside in the world, including in the middle east and the Gulf its growing economic success. We strongly welcome states. The House gave strong support on Monday for such steps within the context of the long friendship the sentiments that I expressed in respect of our approach between Bahrain and the UK under successive to the situation. The Opposition were also generally Governments. I was assured in Bahrain last week and supportive of our continual call for more open and again this morning that the Bahraini Government intend flexible political systems, and for the recognition of to build on these reforms. legitimate political aspirations, while respecting and 1137 Bahrain17 FEBRUARY 2011 Bahrain 1138 understanding the fact that those countries are all different, that motivations and aspirations differ from one country that they all cope with different situations, and that they to another. Bahrain has achieved much more economic have had a different pace of reforms. development than Tunisia or Egypt, but it has a starker It is certainly important to express our gravest concerns religious divide, despite the efforts of the Bahraini in the manner in which I have done so this morning, but Government to say that everyone is a Bahraini. The it is also important to recognise that important reforms circumstances are different in each country. A meeting have taken place in Bahrain and that the King of of Gulf Co-operation Council Ministers is taking place Bahrain pledged himself in the last week to further such in Bahrain this afternoon. They will discuss the situation reforms. together. The right hon. Gentleman asked about the presence My right hon. and learned Friend asked specifically of Government statements on the Foreign and about the Arab League. In recent days, I have Commonwealth Office website. That website will of discussed the situation in the Arab world, and most course be updated with all my statements, including this specifically in Egypt, with the secretary-general of the one and what I will say at the press conference that I will Arab League, Mr Amr Moussa. We might be hoping hold shortly with the Spanish Foreign Minister. However, for too much if we expect a consistent position on this I did speak about this matter in the House of Commons by the Arab League, because the circumstances of each itself on Monday, and that is where Governments should country differ so much, and because, of course, the give their definitive statements on such things. Arab League includes nations such as Syria and Libya, which have a particularly severe approach to dissent Any exports will be looked at under the strict criteria and are not accommodating of any reform movements that we always apply in this country. It is true that both or demonstrations in their countries. I think, therefore, in opposition and in government, many right hon. and that it would be difficult to bring about a unified hon. Members have been to Bahrain and held extensive response from the Arab League, although it would be discussions with its leaders. In fact, on every occasion very good if it did happen. The British Government when I went there in the last five years, Ministers of the will continue to make our case in exactly the way he previous Government were there at the same time. It is described. wholly right to have that dialogue with Bahrain and other Gulf states. Mr Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire The right hon. Gentleman asked about my visit last South) (Lab): I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his week. I met a variety of opposition human rights answer. Will he give more detail of the work being done organisations, including the Bahrain Human Rights to support British nationals in the country, and what Society, the Migrant Workers Protection Society and contingency plans will go ahead in the event of these the Bahrain Women’s Union. I subsequently raised protests escalating? I fully support his comments urging some of the issues that they brought up with Bahraini restraint on all sides and expressing the British Government’s Ministers. We have a continuous discussion and dialogue grave concerns about the policing of the protests on on human rights with the Bahraini authorities, which Pearl square, and his advocacy of the protection of again is absolutely the appropriate thing to do. human rights. Given the strength of our diplomatic I am sure that the right position for this country, in relationship with Bahrain, will he tell the House what the context of that long friendship with Bahrain of he and his officials plan on doing in the days ahead to which I have spoken, is to press for legitimate aspirations ensure that the Bahraini Government are aware that the to be met and for actions to be taken that bring different eyes of the whole world are on the behaviour of the religious communities together, as well as to express our police and security forces in the light of recent events? grave concern when such matters arise. He is right, of course, to say that Bahrain has seen some progress on political reform since the introduction Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): I am of the new constitution in 2002, and I welcome the not sure that I can match the rhetoric of Rotherham, fact that when he was in Bahrain last week, he raised but I agree with the Foreign Secretary that it is clear the importance of continuing progress along that that very substantial movements for change are path. Will he therefore tell the House specifically what sweeping through the middle east—an area with which advice on such further reform he gave to the Bahraini we have a long history, including sometimes on colonial Government last week, and what steps the British terms. He recognised the importance of the area by Government would now like to see in the days, weeks recently visiting it. and months ahead? The Foreign Secretary has confirmed already that we Mr Hague: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman will conduct ourselves according to our belief in the for his comments. On contingency plans, I have spoken rule of law, democratic principles and the need for to our ambassador in Bahrain this morning. Of course, freedom of expression, but has he considered whether, we are watching the situation very carefully as it may in this period of potentially tumultuous change, there affect British nationals, travel advice or the situation at could be a role for the Arab League? Has he sought the airport. If it becomes necessary, we will send additional discussions with the Arab League ambassador here in resources to reinforce our diplomatic or consular presence. the UK or with others elsewhere to determine whether That does not seem to be necessary yet, but we will keep the Arab League could help in what looks like a it under review night and day. After recent experiences transformation in the region? in Egypt and Tunisia, we are used to sending a rapid deployment team when necessary, and to smoothly and Mr Hague: I am grateful to my right hon. and learned calmly assisting British nationals if a crisis develops. I Friend. There is indeed a movement for change in many also thank him for his welcome for other things that the parts of the Arab world, although we must understand Government have said. 1139 Bahrain17 FEBRUARY 2011 Bahrain 1140

[Mr Hague] Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): Unlike Libya, where demonstrations are also taking place today, Bahrain On the specific advice that we give to the Bahraini is a loyal friend of the west. It has started political Government now and in the future, we always have to reforms and is very tolerant of western lifestyles. May I be carefully, given that we do not believe in outside urge my right hon. Friend, before the Government interference in the political affairs of other nations, make any criticism of Bahrain, to proceed with extreme about being so prescriptive that we think exactly what caution and say, on behalf of the House of Commons, reforms should take place. However, we think that there that the right hon. Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane), are legitimate aspirations that should be satisfied, and with his one-sided views, does not speak for us? that it is important that the Government in Bahrain continue to make it clear in their words and actions that Mr Hague: Thankfully, that is the case on all subjects, political reforms will continue and that economic so it is hardly necessary to make that latter point. My opportunities will be opened up across the whole of hon. Friend is right—we have had a long friendship for society. That is what we will emphasise. However, as the past 40 years with Bahrain, and it is felt strongly in another nation, we will not try to determine the exact that country. He is also right to point out that protests detail of their policies. have been going on in Libya, where television cameras are not present, so they may not be so much in the news. Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): As However, we should remember those protests, too, and my right hon. Friend will know very well, Iran has long we call on the Government in Libya to recognise the had a claim over the sovereignty of Bahrain, which right to peaceful protest and to avoid the excessive use raises delicate international problems at the present of force. That message should also be conveyed clearly time. However, it is something on which the British today. Government and the Arab League can march together in giving support to His Majesty the King of Bahrain in Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): The great changes resisting any attempt by Iran to exploit the present would not have happened without fresh information situation. from the platforms of social networks and from the most reliable, trusted news organisation in the world. Mr Hague: My hon. Friend is right. That is why I As the Government are in the mood for U-turns, should mentioned earlier, in response to the original question, not they look again at their planned wasteful cuts to the that we would strongly oppose any outside interference BBC world services? in the affairs of Bahrain or any attempt to widen and exacerbate the sectarian difficulties that clearly exist Mr Hague: The hon. Gentleman is right that social there. He puts his finger on that. It is a message that networking sites have played a strong role in recent should go out loudly and clearly from the western events across the middle east. So has satellite television, world, and now I think from the Arab world. I have no which brings us to an important point. The BBC’s direct evidence of such interference taking place, but it services must adapt to the changes in the world—the is right for us to sound a strong warning about it. vast majority of people in the Arab world keep in touch with those events through watching satellite television Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Does the Foreign channels. That is the way for the BBC to develop its Secretary agree that events in Bahrain and throughout services, including its online services, rather than thinking the Arab world demand a much more fundamental that every service that it now provides has to stay reassessment of British and western policy in the region, exactly the same. Medium-wave transmissions across away from support for autocratic Governments, to much of the Arab world will be continued. Shortwave unequivocal support for democracy, freedom and human transmissions will continue into the Arabian peninsula rights? and into Sudan, but the right way to go is to develop the BBC’s satellite television services. That is the sort of Mr Hague: Our relationship is with nations rather thing people are watching. than individuals, as I have stressed in the case of Egypt and Tunisia. However, it is important to be able to work Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): My right with the leaderships of countries throughout the Gulf—a hon. Friend has a good record on standing up for particularly strong example of that—in the interests of human rights in the region, but in the events that are the security of the whole region as well as of the welfare now unfolding, will he take a close interest in the of British nationals, and of the consistency and strength position of Christians and Christian communities of our policies on the Iranian nuclear programme. Of throughout the region? They have already faced pressure course, we have good relations and have discussed foreign and persecution both from some of the existing regimes policy matters very closely—as often, though perhaps and from certain political forces within them, although not often enough, happened under the previous Bahrain is not one of the worst examples by any means. Government—with all the leaders of the Gulf states. I do not think that events call for us to break our links Mr Hague: As my hon. Friend says, the important with the leaders and monarchies of such states. That issue that he raises is thankfully not a factor in these would be the height of folly. However, they call for us to particular disturbances, but the message of tolerance repeat all the time the messages that I have mentioned and acceptance of different religions should always go today, and for Britain to assist in that wherever we can. out clearly from this country. That is very important to Last week in Tunisia, I announced the Arab partnership underline in the middle east today, where there have fund to help the development of civil society and political been terrorist outrages against Christians, but also against parties throughout the Arab world. That is the right other religious minorities across the region. Part of approach for Britain. what we need in the middle east in the coming years is 1141 Bahrain 17 FEBRUARY 2011 1142 not only an acceptance of more open and flexible Business of the House political systems, but real leadership from the countries concerned in accepting the presence of different religions. 11.58 am Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): May I welcome the Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab): Will the Leader tone and content of the Foreign Secretary’s statement? of the House give us the forthcoming business? Bahrain has a long-standing relationship with our country, The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George and it is seeking to reform in the context of its own Young): The business for the week commencing 28 February philosophy. I do not blame the Foreign Secretary, but will be as follows: before his visit there were no protests in Bahrain. In the MONDAY 28 FEBRUARY—Motion relating to the big meetings that he held with those who wanted to accelerate society. The subject for this debate was nominated by the reform process, did he anticipate that they would the Backbench Business Committee. happen? Will he continue not to lecture middle eastern countries, but to work with them to ensure that their TUESDAY 1MARCH—Second Reading of the Protection reform process is brought to a logical conclusion? of Freedoms Bill. WEDNESDAY 2MARCH—Estimates day (2nd allotted Mr Hague: I am very grateful to the right hon. day). There will be debates on Sure Start children’s Gentleman for his question. That is the right way to centres and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, the frame those things—with a deeper understanding of details of which will be given in the Official Report, what is happening in those societies. He might have a followed by a motion to approve the draft Prevention of word with the right hon. Member for Rotherham Terrorism Act 2005 (Continuance in force of sections 1 (Mr MacShane) afterwards about some of those issues. to 9) Order 2011. It is true that outbreaks of disorder have occurred in At 7 pm the House will be asked to agree all outstanding several places that I visited last week, but I am confident estimates. that it is not cause and effect. In my tour of the middle [The details are as follows: Sure Start Children’s east, we correctly anticipated some of the places, such Centres: 5th Report from the Children Schools and Families as Yemen and Bahrain, where difficulties would arise. It Committee of session 2009-10, HC 130; Government is all the more important in those countries to stress the response—4th Special report from the Education Committee message of necessary and appropriate reform. Among of session 2010-11, HC 768; and HMRC: Oral evidence the leadership in Bahrain, there is the appetite and taken before the Treasury Sub-Committee on 8 February determination to carry out those reforms. There is no 2011, HC 731-ii, and 19 January 2011, HC731-i; oral doubt about the sincerity of the King of Bahrain and evidence taken before the Treasury Committee on the leaders of the country about that. We will therefore 15 September 2010, HC 479; 7th Report from the Treasury continue to give our advice and to deplore situations Committee of session 2009-10, Administration and where violence arises and lives are lost. Both elements Expenditure of the Chancellor’s Departments 2008-09, are important. HC 156, and Government response, Cm 7917; 8th Report from the Treasury Committee of session 2006-07, The Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): I Efficiency Programme in the Chancellor’s Departments, welcome the Foreign Secretary’s statement. Will he HC 483, and Government response, 1st Special report clarify the position to ascertain whether what is happening from the Treasury committee of session 2007-08, HC 62”.] in Bahrain now is connected to incidents there four or THURSDAY 3MARCH—Opposition day (12th allotted five years ago, when disturbances were linked to the day) (half-day) (first part). There will be a half-day influence of Iran, which asserted that it was the custodian debate on a Democratic Unionist party motion, subject of Shi’ites and would even send its troops to defend to be announced, followed by proceedings on the them, or whether it is a genuine desire for reform by the Consolidated Fund Bill. people of Bahrain? FRIDAY 4MARCH—Private Members’ Bills. Mr Hague: As I said, I do not have any evidence of The provisional business for the week commencing Iranian involvement in the protests, although, over the 7 March will include: years, I think that some statements by Iran have been MONDAY 7MARCH—Consideration in Committee of intended to exacerbate tensions in Bahrain. We should the Scotland Bill (day 1). therefore remember that context. However, it is fair to TUESDAY 8MARCH—Remaining stages of the European say, without analysing or knowing the politics of every Union Bill. other country in the world, that there are legitimate aspirations for better economic opportunity and political WEDNESDAY 9MARCH—Second Reading of the Welfare rights in the countries concerned, including Bahrain. Reform Bill. Undoubtedly, a mixture of factors is at work, and that THURSDAY 10 MARCH—There will be a debate on a underlines the need for the approach that I have described. motion relating to UN women. This debate was nominated by the Backbench Business Committee, followed by a Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): On a point of further debate on a subject to be nominated by that order, Mr Speaker. Committee. I should also like to inform the House that the Mr Speaker: I point out to the hon. Gentleman that business in Westminster Hall for 17 March 2011 will be: points of order follow statements, so we will deal with THURSDAY 17 MARCH—A debate on articles 9 and the business statement first. 13 of the Bill of Rights and the role of Parliament in dealing with all grievances and the importance of freedom of communication between constituents and Members. 1143 Business of the House17 FEBRUARY 2011 Business of the House 1144

Hilary Benn: I am grateful to the Leader of the Can we have a debate on the latest bank bonuses? House for that reply. I thank him for his clarification Last week the Chancellor trumpeted his bonus deal and this week on the Scotland Bill, although the publication called for an end to banker bashing. A couple of days of the Scotland Bill committee’s report at Holyrood is, later, the Business Secretary contradicted him—not for of course, only part of the legislation consent motion the first time—when he railed against the process, as the Scottish Parliament then has to debate “extraordinarily large bonuses which most people cannot understand” the report and the legislative consent motion and vote on them. Given that the Secretary of State for Scotland as being has described this as the biggest transfer of fiscal powers “offensive”. since the Act of Union, we should wait until the process No wonder—this week we saw reports that the bonus has been completed in Holyrood before proceeding pool at Barclays is going up. There we were thinking with Committee stage here. Project Merlin was named after a wizard: now we learn In the light of the significant developments in the it was a bird. Presumably the Chancellor had an image middle east, do the Government have plans for a debate? of himself swooping down, talons extended, to seize On police numbers, can the Leader of the House ask offensive bonuses from the mouths of greedy bankers. the Home Secretary to come and explain why she is now Now we know that he was just dropping them off. three weeks late answering a named-day question tabled When it comes to being tough on bankers, the Chancellor by my right hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, is not so much a bird of prey as a great bustard flush. Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper)? Is it because Finally, can the Communities and Local Government the Home Secretary cannot think of a way to square Secretary come and explain why he criticised local her commitment not to cut officers from the front line government for a 78% increase in chief executives’ pay with the 1,500 police officers and staff who will go in when it now turns out that this figure was actually for West Yorkshire, the 480 in Merseyside, the 1,500 in pay rises for chief executives in FTSE 250 companies? If Kent and the more than 1,000 in Devon and Cornwall? the Secretary of State cannot even get the simplest facts When senior officers are describing these as the right in his vendetta against local government, is it any “biggest budget cuts for a generation”, wonder that local government has completely lost I think that my right hon. Friend—and the public—deserve confidence in him? an answer to her question. It has been another very bad week for the Government. Sir George Young: I am grateful for the right hon. Youth unemployment is now at its highest level since Gentleman’s response, although I hope that he managed 1992—the last time we had the misfortune of a Tory to clear all his questions in advance with the Leader of Government. One in five young people are now without the Opposition and the shadow Chancellor, as the latest work, and we discover this week that the Tories’ latest leaked memo from Labour HQ has revealed is required scheme for helping the young unemployed is to flog off of him and every other member of the Opposition internships with top banks at £3,000 a time at a ball to Front-Bench team. raise funds for the Conservative party. That is not so On the legislative consent motion, as the right hon. much social mobility as upwardly mobile socialising. Gentleman said, I wrote to him and the hon. Member Can we have a debate on the quality of ministerial for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) following our exchanges decision making and briefing, as it has also been a very last week, and I placed a copy of the letter in the bad week for Ministers? The Prime Minister claimed Library. It is our understanding that the Scotland Bill yesterday that the Government are running the biggest committee in the Scottish Parliament will publish its back-to-work scheme since the 1930s—funny that, because, LCM in the week commencing 28 February. Today’s as historians will point out, Britain did not have any business statement has provisionally allocated 7 March Government employment schemes worthy of the name for day one of the Scotland Bill. at the time. The Education Secretary was bang to rights in court for an “abuse of power”, the Defence Secretary On police numbers, the right hon. Member for had to apologise to front-line soldiers for sacking them Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) by e-mail, and the Environment Secretary has been put is entitled to a reply to her named-day question. I in special measures by the Prime Minister over the remind the right hon. Gentleman that the former Home forest sale fiasco. Secretary had said that he could give no guarantee that there would be no reduction in police numbers were I welcome the statement that we are about to hear Labour to be re-elected. following the Prime Minister’s decision yesterday to take an axe to his own policy. I did say to the Leader of On youth unemployment, I remind the right hon. the House that the Government would have to change Gentleman that the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy their mind. I wonder whether coalition Members feel and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) said in 1995: any sympathy for the Environment Secretary, given that “Our plan is nothing less than to abolish youth unemployment.” she has been briefed against this morning by No. 10 for They left government with youth unemployment 240,000 a crazy policy that I suspect was foisted on her by the more than when they came in. So we will have no more Treasury. There she was two weeks ago, racing ahead of that. doing what she thought was wanted, and then last week she got nervous and started to apply the brakes. Now On internships, I welcome the announcement by you, the Prime Minister has grabbed the steering wheel, and Mr Speaker, that—with support from the Commission—an the sound of crunching gears can be heard all over internship scheme will be initiated in the House. I Whitehall as reverse is engaged. At least we will be encourage all hon. Members to take part in it. It is right spared a new regulatory body to deal with privatised to encourage internships and to give access to internships forests: presumably, it was to be called Ofcut. to those from all income groups. 1145 Business of the House17 FEBRUARY 2011 Business of the House 1146

On bonuses, I remind the right hon. Gentleman that Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): The Government’s there was no bonus regime under his Government. tobacco control strategy is at an advanced stage of Indeed, they signed a contract with one of the banks preparedness and I understand that it will be published that obliged it to go on paying bonuses at market rates. shortly. Given that smoking is still the biggest killer and It was this Government, not his, who introduced a cause of preventable early death, will the Government regime and a deal with the banks. So we will have no ensure such an important debate, in their time, on more on that. public health and in particular tobacco control? As the right hon. Gentleman anticipates, we will shortly have a statement on forests. Sir George Young: I commend my hon. Friend’s work On the Secretary of State for Communities and Local as chair of the all-party group on smoking and health—a Government, I understand that a press statement was group of which I used to be an active member. He is put out by his Department on the matter. right to draw attention to the importance of making further progress on smoking, which causes some 100,000 It has been a challenging week for the Government, premature deaths each year. It is right at the heart of but it is the week in which we have established the big our public health strategy. I cannot promise a debate in society bank, with several hundreds of millions of pounds Government time, but there may be an opportunity at to underpin charities. It is a week in which we have put a some point in the passage of the Health and Social Care major constitutional reform Bill on the statute book. It Bill to debate that important aspect of public health. is also a week in which we have published the Welfare Reform Bill, the biggest reform of the welfare state for Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): This 60 years. So the coalition Government are determined week, the Deputy Prime Minister published a written to make progress with our social, economic and ministerial statement on public reading stages during constitutional reforms and we will not be deflected Bill Committees. As the Leader of the House knows, from that task. my commitment to public engagement in the legislative process is absolute, but not at the expense of a Back Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): May we Bencher’s ability to scrutinise legislation and hold the have a debate to discuss the relationship between the Government to account. What is the evidence base for Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and this policy? What assessment has been made of its the Department of Health? I ask specifically for this impact on a Back Bencher’s ability to scrutinise legislation? because two members of staff from the Department are Just between these four walls, can he say what consultation sitting on a working group looking into the emotive the Government had with him? They certainly had no issue of the care of women during abortion, and if the consultation with Back Benchers. findings of that group are to be credible, its manner of operations should be above reproach. It is not adhering Sir George Young: I welcome the hon. Lady’s to Government guidelines on consultation, and that is commitment for the House to get more engaged in the causing huge concern. legislative programme. It is our intention to publish more Bills in draft. We will be publishing more in this Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s Session and even more in the Session that follows. The deep concern on the subject, which she has made one of hon. Lady was a member of the Wright Committee, one her special interests. My understanding is that the Royal of whose recommendations was that there should be College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists is a more engagement between the public and the House on professional body which is independent of Government, the legislative programme. The Deputy Prime Minister’s and it has set its own consultation periods. There is a written ministerial statement was a further step down consultation period of four weeks—as is standard for that road towards a public reading stage. We have the college—and it ends tomorrow, although any responses invited those with comments on the Protection of Freedoms received by 25 February will be accepted. However, I Bill to log those comments on the Government website, will, of course, pass on her comments to my right hon. and those will then be moderated and made available to Friend the Secretary of State for Health. the Public Bill Committee. I hope that that will enrich Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): Can we have a and inform those who participate in Committee. debate on ministerial responsibility? Following the education I want to engage with the hon. Lady, the Procedure maintenance allowance debacle, the U-turn on school Committee and the Liaison Committee before we move sports and the Building Schools for the Future debacle, to the fulfilment of what is in the coalition agreement—a we now learn that Building magazine is to publish an commitment to a proper public reading stage. I hope article calling into question figures that the Education that at that stage the House will take ownership of the Secretary used just this week in the House about his process, rather than its being led exclusively by the new pilot scheme. Would it not be appropriate for him Government. to join the Environment Secretary in special measures as a failing Minister? Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): Can we have a debate on the tailored support needed to get people Sir George Young: Certainly not. On Building Schools back into work? It is clear that only with tailored for the Future, my right hon. Friend the Education support built on individual needs, as envisaged by the Secretary made a statement to the House earlier this Government, will we start to see people returning to week, and on that issue the judge agreed that my right work in the numbers that we all want. hon. Friend behaved rationally and that his decision was not open to legal challenge on that basis. So I reject Sir George Young: My hon. Friend is absolutely the hon. Gentleman’s assertions of the criticism of my right. We need tailored individual support to get people right hon. Friends in the Cabinet. back into work. Under the Work programme, to be 1147 Business of the House17 FEBRUARY 2011 Business of the House 1148

[Sir George Young] the earliest; that the programme agreed on 27 January still applies; and that the debates on the borrowing and introduced later in the year, we will have payment by fiscal powers can also therefore not commence until the results. Providers, whether from the independent sector second day, on 13 March at the earliest? or the private sector, will be remunerated when people are in sustainable, long-term employment, rather than Sir George Young: I have announced the provisional as with previous programmes, where payment was simply to business for the second week back. I have not got as far get someone off the register for six months. Sadly, over as the business for following weeks in March, but I will half of those people were back on benefits by the certainly take the hon. Gentleman’s points on board. Of seventh month. I hope that the structure of our Work course it is a very important Bill for the Scottish Parliament, programme will have the results that my hon. Friend but we published the Bill in November, on St Andrew’s wants. day, and we are not dealing with the Committee stage until March—a larger than usual gap between publication Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): and Committee. I hope that that will give the Scottish The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Parliament an opportunity to consider the necessary Government was asked on the BBC “Today” programme legislative consent motion. I can confirm that we are about having debates on senior pay in council chambers, adhering to the principle that the House will have an which he is insisting on, but not on senior pay in opportunity to amend the Bill if the legislative consent Whitehall in this Chamber. He said: motion requires any amendment. “I don’t see any reason why we shouldn’t have this kind of debate in the House of Commons.” Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): Because I cannot without massive inconvenience to others be We have heard that the Secretary of State gets confused present for the upcoming statement on forests, may I about which sector he is talking about, so can the unreservedly welcome the Prime Minister’s sensible and Leader of the House tell us whether he has any plans timely initiative on that matter? Given that the Government for a debate in Government time on senior pay, and will are responding so well to the views of the public on that he extend it to low pay, which Opposition Members issue, may we have a statement from the Minister for think is just as important? Housing and Local Government on the question of fluoridation in the Southampton area? A court has held Sir George Young: Of course low pay is important, that the soon-to-be-abolished strategic health authority but the hon. Lady’s question focused on what my right has the legal right to proceed with fluoridation despite hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and the opposition of three quarters of the population; Local Government said. As far as civil servants are nevertheless, if we are down for localism, surely the concerned, Select Committees have adequate opportunity, matter should be for elected local government to decide. particularly when they look at the accounts of individual Departments, to hold the Minister to account on the Sir George Young: My hon. Friend is right that the salaries that are paid in the Department, and it is always High Court rejected an application for judicial review open to have debates on the Floor of the House about of the decision by the South Central strategic health the structure of salaries in the civil service. Of course, authority to apply fluoride to the water for his constituents, there is a defined salary structure in the civil service, and indeed many others. It is now considering what whereas there is slightly less clarity in relation to local next to do. I have some—hopefully—encouraging news government and the chief executives, so I do not think it for my hon. Friend. Under the reforms envisaged in the is an exact parallel. Health and Social Care Bill, the South Central strategic health authority will be abolished, and its public health Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): Having given reasonable responsibilities will be passed to local authorities, which time for the Committee stage of the European Union will give my hon. Friend the control that he seeks. The Bill, will the Leader of the House be good enough to Government are now, in the light of that court decision, ensure in programme motions or whatever that we have working out how best to apply the regulations to take adequate time to discuss the Bill properly on Report the fluoridation policy forward. and Third Reading in the light of any amendments that may be tabled? Perhaps he would be kind enough to Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab): have a word with me about it, too. Unconfirmed reports suggest that the Gangmasters Licensing Authority will be abolished or merged with Sir George Young: As my hon. Friend knows, I am another department. Either option would be deeply always ready to have a word with him. I have announced regrettable, given the good work that the authority does that we shall be having the final day of—I think—seven to protect migrant workers from exploitation and ensure days on the European Bill. We actually added an extra that they are here legally and paying taxes and insurance. day in the light of representations, and we have allocated Will the Leader of the House explore the future of the a whole day for the final stages. I very much hope that Gangmasters Licensing Authority and identify the good that will be adequate. work that it does?

Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): I thank the Sir George Young: It does indeed do good work, and Leader of the House for confirming in the Chamber I can confirm that the Government have no plans to today that the first day of the Scotland Bill Committee abolish that body. will not now be until 7 March, and I thank him for his letter yesterday. However, will he confirm that, given the Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): Will the Leader of the other provisional business that he has laid out, the House update us on what has happened on moving second day of Committee cannot be until 13 March at private Members’ Bills away from Friday? I have written 1149 Business of the House17 FEBRUARY 2011 Business of the House 1150 to him on the subject, especially in light of the Sustainable Sir George Young: The short answer is no, I have not Livestock Bill, which received great support from members had time to look at the NAO report. In due course, that of the public, environment groups and 172 MPs, but report will go to the Public Accounts Committee, which received fewer than 100 votes on the day that it was will produce its report, which would then be eligible for considered in the House. It seems a shame that MPs, a debate in the House. In any event, the Government particularly those outside London, should have to choose would want to respond to any PAC recommendations. between voting on legislation that is important to their That is the right way to address the important issues to constituents and constituency commitments. which the hon. Gentleman refers.

Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): With regard for raising the matter, and I think I have written to her to the upcoming debate on the importance of MPs on the subject. The Procedure Committee will shortly communicating with their constituents, has my right start an inquiry into the parliamentary calendar, including hon. Friend noted the remarks made last week by the the problem that she outlines of private Members’ Bills chair of the Committee on Standards in Public Life, taking place on a Friday, and it will consider other that the extreme complexity of the present MPs’ expenses options. We have tried to give the House certainty by system was militating against family life and making it agreeing, early in the Session, the dates of the 13 sitting hard for MPs to do their job properly? Does he understand days up to June this year. If a private Member’s Bill has the increasing consensus in the House that we need to a lot of support, it is still possible to get it through on a move towards a much flatter, less bureaucratic system Friday. to enable MPs to get on with their lives and support their constituents? Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab): May I press the Leader of the House further on the Scotland Bill? Will Sir George Young: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, he confirm that its Committee stage will not commence not least for the work that he is doing on the liaison until after the Scottish Parliament has agreed the legislative committee that has recently been set up. I did read consent motion? Does he accept that, in order to scrutinise Sir Christopher Kelly’s submission, which reinforced the Bill properly, it is appropriate that the express views points that you, Mr Speaker, I and the shadow Leader of the Scottish Parliament are known? of the House had made. I hope that the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority reflects on the strong Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s views expressed during the review and makes proposals interest in the Bill. As I have said, it will be perfectly that are acceptable to the House. possible for the Committee stage of the Bill to consider amendments in the light of the LCM. It has never been Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Given the policy of the House to put a Bill on hold while the that we have not had a statement from the Minister LCM is addressed. I can, however, commit myself to responsible, despite revelations of further serious security giving the House the opportunity to amend the Bill in breaches at Ford open prison, may we have a debate on Committee after the LCM has been processed. security in Her Majesty’s prisons, or is it now the policy of the Government to equip prisoners with a freedom Mr Lee Scott (Ilford North) (Con): Will the Leader pass as well as a ballot paper? of the House ask the Minister with responsibility for the Olympic games to make a statement to the House Sir George Young: The short answer is that the regarding the number of contracts and subcontracts Government have no plans to provide such a debate, awarded to local or, indeed, British companies against but if the hon. Gentleman presents himself on a Tuesday foreign companies? morning to the Backbench Business Committee, he might find that he is successful in securing a debate in Sir George Young: I understand my hon. Friend’s Back-Bench time on the important issue of security in interest in the multiplier effect of work on the Olympic our prisons. games. My understanding is that 12,000 workers currently work on the Olympic park and village, and that 21% of Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): On the issue the Olympic park work force live in the five host boroughs. of police numbers raised by the shadow Leader of the In addition, 330 apprentices are on site, and a large House, the Mayor of London’s draft budget proposals number of previously unemployed people have been increase investment in front-line policing, allowing the placed in work through the brokerage of the Olympic Met to recruit again, with the result that London will Delivery Authority. I hope that my hon. Friend welcomes have more police officers in 2012 than were inherited such an impact in his constituency and is convinced that from the previous Mayor. May we have a debate on how there is local benefit. to deliver protection for front-line services while reducing spending? Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): Has the Leader of the House yet had time to read the Sir George Young: I hope that the rest of local National Audit Office report, which raises a series of government will note what the Mayor of London has concerns about progress on the Olympics, especially been able to do. At a time of fiscal stringency, he has around the regeneration of east London and the economic, put more resources into front-line policing, and if that social and sporting legacies of the Olympic games? Will can be done in London, it can be done elsewhere. he consider the possibility of a debate in Government time about how we can get those promises back on Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): May we have a debate track, so that we can deliver the full potential of the on the inability of Ministers to make decisions? The Olympic games in those key areas? north-east of England has been waiting since July last 1151 Business of the House17 FEBRUARY 2011 Business of the House 1152

[Phil Wilson] end-of-life policy and poor nutrition policy were deeply worrying. I hope that some of the reforms in the Health year for a decision on the intercity express programme, and Social Care Bill will improve the position, not least which, if it goes ahead, will create 800 jobs in my through the creation of local healthwatch organisations constituency and 1,000 jobs in the supply chain. In to give patients more power to ensure that there is November, the Secretary of State for Transport stated feedback, that complaints are heard and that local that we would have a decision in the new year. When the services are held properly to account. House returns, it will be the beginning of March. When can we expect a decision? Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): Will the Leader of the House grant an urgent debate on Liverpool’s Sir George Young: There will be an opportunity on local government settlement from central Government, 10 March for the hon. Gentleman to put that question given the misleading statistics about funding levels used— to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for inadvertently I am sure—by both the Prime Minister Transport. In the meantime, I will raise the issue with and the Minister for Housing in recent weeks? him, and see whether we can get an answer before that. Sir George Young: We have debated the local government Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con): May we settlement within the last fortnight, and that would have a debate on the Government’s Work programme, have been the opportunity for the hon. Gentleman to so that everyone in the House can better understand raise the grievance to which he refers. I am afraid he will why the 5 million-odd people who have been trapped on have to wait another year before that opportunity comes benefits for the best part of a decade will be better off round again. under this Government’s approach than under Labour’s approach, which simply did not work? Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con): The Leader of the House will be aware of a Channel 4 programme that Sir George Young: Under Labour, roughly 1.5 million went out last Monday evening, showing several children people spent most of the last decade on out-of-work from my constituency being kicked and beaten in a benefits, and that benefit system cost every working mosque. Will he ask the relevant Secretary of State to family some £3,000. The Work programme will focus on make a statement on how we can protect children who encouraging people to get into work and reforming the attend mosques and madrassahs, and how we can support welfare system, and it will have much better results than members of the community who are afraid to complain the programmes that preceded it. to the police about what has happened?

Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): Sir George Young: I understand the concern arising Earlier this week, Dave Morgan, a 75-year-old man, from the “Dispatches” programme, which included such was seriously injured in my constituency after heroically comments as that men should be trusted only if they dragging an out-of-control illegal dog away from an had substantial tufts of hair on their face. It would be eight-year-old boy it was attempting to savage. Yesterday, appropriate for my hon. Friend to refer to the police a young person had a dog set on him in Picton, also in any allegations of abuse or harm to children. All school my constituency, in front of his youth workers. The inspections are carried out by trained and qualified Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs’ inspectors, and he might like to raise the incidents in his consultation on dangerous dogs ended eight months constituency with the appropriate inspectors. ago, and the Government have so far done nothing. May we please have an urgent debate on the performance Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): Can we debate the of the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and extraordinary and anachronistic Advisory Committee Rural Affairs, and the complacent attitude of her Ministers on Business Appointments? It is made up of five lords on this matter? and two knights, almost all of whom have business appointments themselves. It cannot be a watchdog because Sir George Young: I was sorry to hear of the incident it never follows up its recommendations. Is it not about in the hon. Lady’s constituency. I will contact my right time we reformed this establishment pussy-cat that just hon. Friend the Secretary of State and see when she looks after the establishment? plans to respond to the consultation exercise. Of course, I understand the urgency of making progress. Sir George Young: I understand that the hon. Gentleman is referring to the body that gives advice to ex-Ministers Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): The recently as to whether it is appropriate for them to take on published ombudsman’s report, which revealed a worryingly employment. It is important that that job is done. I have unacceptable level of neglect of older people in the no particular view on why it cannot be done appropriately NHS in 2009-10, shows that such problems continue. by five lords or two knights; the important thing is to May we have a statement from a Department of Health have the right people to do the job. It may be that the Minister on what the Government are doing to tackle right people to do that job have the adornments to their this serious issue? names that the hon. Gentleman has just mentioned.

Sir George Young: The whole House would have been Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): As a coalition dismayed by the 10 incidents, to which the health Government, we are committed to making sure that ombudsman referred in her recent report, showing neglect money is spent in the national health service on the of elderly people. It would be wrong to generalise, front line. Two weeks ago I mentioned two trusts that because high-quality care is provided in much of the were consulting about merging; I now understand that NHS, but the instances of poor discharge policy, poor that will take three years and cost £1.5 million. Now I 1153 Business of the House17 FEBRUARY 2011 Business of the House 1154 highlight what is going on with the Care Quality Government have maintained support of some £555 million Commission and dentists throughout the country, who to Remploy to help it through the five-year modernisation are required to print and display 75 individual policies programme, but I should like to write to the hon. in their surgeries, totally unnecessarily. Gentleman about the particular issue that he raised concerning public sector procurement. Sir George Young: Dentists in my own constituency are complaining about the approach of the Care Quality Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): Tomorrow Commission. If my hon. Friend would like to approach is Go Orange day on the Isle of Wight—a celebration of the Backbench Business Committee, it might feel it three independent lifeboats and the fundraising efforts appropriate to arrange a debate. I shall raise the issue of to keep them afloat. Each service costs more than the mergers of NHS trusts in my hon. Friend’s constituency £25,000 a year. Will the Leader of the House join me in with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for thanking the brave men and women who man the Health. service, and in sending them good wishes for the success Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): of Go Orange day? Given the doubts expressed today by health experts about the Government’s minimum alcohol pricing policy, Sir George Young: I welcome my hon. Friend’s initiative may we have a debate on what the policy will actually at business questions in giving the service the publicity mean, and whether it is anything other than a fig leaf to which it is entitled. The whole House will endorse the for big commercial interests? good wishes that he has just mentioned.

Sir George Young: We have not announced the details Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): This week Oxfordshire of that policy, but this is the first time that a Government joined the growing list of local authorities that are will have a policy on minimum alcohol pricing, linked closing their youth services completely. In view of the to the related policy for a special tax on high-strength gravity of the situation, and as there is a statutory duty drinks. The Budget may be the appropriate time for a to provide youth work, may we have an urgent debate in debate on those issues. the Chamber on the issue? Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): Can we have a debate about spending so that we can Sir George Young: Again, I say to the hon. Lady that contrast the coalition Government’s policies and plans there was an opportunity to debate the situation two for the economy with those of the shadow Chancellor, weeks ago when we discussed the revenue support grant. who asserts that we should be spending a lot more Those decisions have now been taken. I will draw her money that we do not have? The policy of spend, spend, concern to the attention of my right hon. Friend the spend is what got us into this mess in the first place. Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government and ask him to write to her. Sir George Young: My hon. Friend is right. The spending reductions that we are planning for next year, Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con): In of some £16 billion, are only £2 billion more than the my constituency the video games industry is a major figure pencilled in by the outgoing Chancellor of the employer, but recently there have been reports about Exchequer. potential job losses. That is a particularly worrying Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): There is development given the importance of the creative industries growing concern about the future of Remploy factories, to our economic recovery. Will the Leader of the House which provide supported jobs for people with disabilities. provide Government time for a debate on how we can Will the Leader of the House consider an urgent debate best support our creative industries, such as video games, on ensuring that all public bodies include Remploy in to boost exports and create new jobs? their procurement policies for office furniture and other products, to support workers with disabilities and provide Sir George Young: My hon. Friend is right; we need a a level playing field for trade? stake in the digital and creative industries, and we have many market leaders in this country. I cannot promise a Sir George Young: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s debate, but I will draw his remarks to the attention of concern. The matter was raised at business questions both the Chancellor of the Exchequer as he prepares his last week, and I wrote to one of his hon. Friends about Budget, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State Remploy. I should like to send him the same letter. The for Business, Innovation and Skills. 1155 17 FEBRUARY 2011 Forestry (England) 1156

Forestry (England) today, signalling a fresh approach, demonstrate my intention to do the right thing for our forests and our woodlands. 12.37 pm Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab): I welcome the Secretary The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and of State’s full and frank apology to the House and to Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman): I would first like the nation for getting this so very wrong. I am sure that to say that I take full responsibility for the situation that the past 48 hours have not been easy for her. brings me to the House today. Let me make it clear that Last night the Government announced that they we have always placed the highest priority on preserving would withdraw the forestry clauses from the Public access and protecting our forests, but the forestry clauses Bodies Bill, which is now in the other place, and scrap in the Public Bodies Bill, published well before we the consultation on the sell-off of England’s forests. launched the consultation, gave the wrong impression Again, MPs heard about a major Government U-turn as to the Government’s intentions. That is why I am on the television, rather than hearing it here first. [HON. today announcing three steps that will allow for more MEMBERS: “No!”] It came through on BBC News and measured and rational debate about the future direction Sky at 10.20. Can the Secretary of State tell the House of forestry policy. when she was informed of the decision that she is now First, I have taken a decision to end the consultation announcing, as her statement is mysteriously absent on the future of the public forest estate, and I take full from the Order Paper today? Only yesterday the Prime responsibility for that. I am doing so because it is clear Minister told the House that the consultation on the from the early responses to the consultation that the forests, set to run until April, would continue. When public, and many hon. Members, are not happy with was the decision made, and who made it? the proposals that we set out. Secondly, the Government Today the air is filled with the sound of chickens will support the removal of the forestry clauses from the coming home to roost. The Secretary of State has Public Bodies Bill, which is in Committee in the other discovered that her first priority—delivering the 30% cut place. that she inflicted on her Department—has a hefty political Thirdly, I would like to announce to the House that I price attached. Half a million people have marched, am establishing an independent panel to consider forestry mountain-biked and petitioned against her sale of the policy in England. It will report to me with its findings century. They objected to the once-in-a-lifetime offer to in the autumn. The panel will advise me on the future buy something that they already collectively own. Under direction of forestry and woodland policy in England, the cloak of reducing the deficit, she came up with a and on the role of the Forestry Commission and the policy that her own Department admitted would cost public forest estate. The panel will include representatives more than it delivered in benefits, and which would of key environmental and access organisations, alongside have fragmented the environmental stewardship of representatives of the forestry industry. I will shortly England’s forests. I congratulate all hon. Members who publish its membership and terms of reference. defied their party Whips a couple of weeks ago to vote against the sell-off, and I remind those who did not that If there is one clear message from this experience, it is the public may well extract a hefty price from them at that people cherish their forests and woodlands and the the next election. benefits that they bring. My first priority throughout Today is not a victory for politics as usual: it is a this period of debate has been securing a sustainable victory for Liz Searle of the Friends of Chopwell Wood, future for our woodlands and forests. On many occasions whom I met in Gateshead two weeks ago, for the Save in the House last autumn, Ministers gave assurances Cannock Chase campaigners, and for the Friends of that our aim in all of this has been to do more to Dalby Forest, members of which I met in York last maintain and enhance the public benefits delivered by weekend. It is a victory for the Save Our Woods campaign, forestry—from recreational access to wildlife protection, for Alan Robertson from the Hands Off Our Forest and from tackling climate change to sustaining a wide campaign in the Forest of Dean, and for thousands of range of small businesses. That is why my ambition to others. I hope that Government Members are listening provide a better future for our forests is undiminished. to those names and will contact those campaigners. We have already heard positive suggestions about They signed the Save Our Forests petition and the Save how we can do that for heritage forests and all other England’s Forests petition, and supported the silent woodlands. We have spoken to the Royal Society for the majority in speaking up and telling the Government, Protection of Birds, the National Trust, the Woodland “This land is our land”. Trust, the wildlife trusts, the Ramblers Association and Last Friday the Secretary of State announced that other groups. The Forestry Commission has itself her sale of 15% of England’s forest permitted under the acknowledged that change is needed, and will be fully law as it stands would be put on hold until the consultation engaged in the process, as I know that it has many ideas ended. The consultation ended last night—we assume to contribute. We have also been listening to hon. by Prime Ministerial decree. Will the sale of those Members on both sides of the House, many of whom 40,000 hectares, or 100,000 acres—10 times more than have set up their own initiatives and local groups. We the Labour Government sold during their entire 13 years, want to support them in that. and we then reinvested the money—now go ahead, or Finally, I am sorry, we got this one wrong—but we will that sale await the outcome of the panel’s deliberations? have listened to people’s concerns. I thank colleagues How many consultation responses has she received, and for their support through what has been a very difficult will the panel consider those responses? issue. I now want to move forward in step with the I am delighted that the Secretary of State has finally public. I hope that the measures that I have announced spoken to the environmental charities and listened to 1157 Forestry (England)17 FEBRUARY 2011 Forestry (England) 1158 them on the matter. How will the freshly dreamed-up Bodies Bill. In their minds, those clauses gave rise to a independent panel on the forests be selected? Why are concern that their particular dearly loved forest might representatives of the forestry industry—the lone voice in some way be under threat. It is clear from my in favour of her proposals—included in the panel, and statement that, with the withdrawal of the forestry why will it meet in secret? Should it not tour the country clauses, there can be no question about the protection listening to what people want from their forests and of their forests in future. showing a little humility on the subject? Can she reassure The hon. Lady asked me about the planned sales. the public that foresters themselves, the custodians of They have been suspended, and we await the outcome forests, will be represented on the panel? How will the from the panel. She asked how many responses we had campaigners and the members of the public who have received. The Forestry Commission has received spoken up on the issue be represented? What is the approximately 7,000 direct responses and 2,500 e-mails, status of DEFRA’s forestry regulation—or should I say and it has sent out 400 hard copies of the consultation deregulation—taskforce, which was quietly announced document. by her colleague in January? Surely we should not have two separate advisory panels, running in tandem, on the With regard to the composition of the panel, it will future of the forests? Can she tell the House how the represent the broad range of views of all those who Forestry Commission can possibly deliver better access share with all of us a love and cherishing of the forests, and more biodiversity when it is set to lose a quarter of and want to see them protected. It will be broad. Let me its staff in the next three months? help the hon. Lady with her understanding of the deregulation taskforce, which fulfils a completely different This U-turn highlights a wider problem about how function from that of the panel. We have invited Mr Richard this Government work. We have the Prime Minister, a Macdonald to advise Ministers on the simplification of self-styled non-executive chairman, now setting up a regulation, particularly the regulation of agriculture. unit to monitor Ministers, but he is barking up the The consultation is complete: we have received the wrong tree. It is not individual Departments he should responses and we await Mr Macdonald’s report. As I be putting into special measures, but the whole Government, said, this is a completely different function from that of who are out of touch with what people care about, the panel that I have announced today. whether that is the opportunity to walk in the forests or to ensure that babies get milk and books, or that our I found it quite hard to take the hon. Lady’s comments children have the chance to go to university. about the support that the previous Labour Government had given to the countryside—and the reaction of Members I congratulate the Environment Secretary on one to those comments was enough to reinforce that point. thing: she is probably the only Cabinet Minister in Finally, as regards humility—perhaps, ultimately, that living memory to unite the Socialist Workers party and is the difference between her and me. I am prepared to the National Trust in opposition to her plans. Will she come here and show genuine humility. If we heard some learn the lessons of this debacle? She cannot ride roughshod acknowledgement from the hon. Lady that her Government over the people on a policy for which she has no sold off forests with inadequate protection, we might mandate. By offering her 30% cut across DEFRA she begin to take what she had to say more seriously. has set herself on a collision course with anybody who loves the countryside—and if she will not stand up for the countryside, we on the Labour Benches most Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): The Secretary of State certainly will. is, of course, right in the reassurances that she gave about the Public Bodies Bill, and I certainly welcome Mrs Spelman: As I am sure you, Mr Speaker, and the the statement she made last week about the 40,000 hectares, House are aware, I volunteered to make an oral statement, as previously announced in the comprehensive spending and an oral statement does not appear on the Order Paper. review. Will she reassure us that the well-constructed questions posed in the consultation will not simply be I made the decision with the Prime Minister. We have lost, or submerged by what has been announced today? spoken about the matter, as the hon. Lady would expect, on a number of occasions. We spoke face to face about the options open to us, and we made the decision Mrs Spelman: Yes, I can give that assurance. Those together. were perfectly reasonable questions to ask, and I would expect members of the independent panel to look at all The hon. Lady talks about the savings that I have had the questions raised in the consultation document—and, to make in my Department without a trace of indeed, at some additional wider questions that members acknowledgement that the reason why Government of the public asked to be considered. Departments are having to make savings is the mess that her Government left this country in. I do not accept her argument that the proposals outlined in the Several hon. Members rose— consultation would have impacted adversely on the stewardship of our woodlands and forests. Since we are Mr Speaker: Order. May I gently remind the House on the subject of stewardship, I remind her that, that Members who came into the Chamber after the notwithstanding the savings that we have had to make Secretary of State had started to deliver her statement in our Department, we have protected the expenditure should not expect to be called? on stewardship, precisely because we know that it is so important. Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): If there is The many friends of forests that the hon. Lady listed any personal sympathy for the Secretary of State today, will in many cases have written to hon. Members on it is because she has been publicly humiliated by the both sides of the House to express their concern about Prime Minister and the Chancellor. Can she bring their understanding of the forestry clauses in the Public herself to congratulate the many people up and down 1159 Forestry (England)17 FEBRUARY 2011 Forestry (England) 1160

[Mr David Winnick] Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Did the Prime Minister offer to come and give the Secretary of State the country, certainly including my constituents, who his support in executing this humiliating U-turn? As my fought and campaigned so hard against the selling off hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) of one of our most precious national assets? said, the real problem is that we have a Prime Minister who almost prides himself in not knowing what is going Mrs Spelman: As I have said, I have no difficulty in on in Government Departments, and likes to float life in being frank when I have got something wrong; I above everything as a non-executive chairman. It is he have come to the House and said as much. As regards who needs to get a grip, not just the Secretary of State. the many people up and down the country whose love for their forests is quite apparent from the responses I Mrs Spelman: Well, that might have been the right received, I would like to reassure them that it was never hon. Gentleman’s experience of the previous Prime the Government’s intention to sell off the forests to the Minister, but I have spoken to the Prime Minister on a highest bidder—[Interruption.] That was never in our number of occasions over the last few weeks, as it was minds. quite apparent that we were having difficulty with the consultation. I have been very grateful for his support. Mr Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con): The statutory protection of right of access for walkers and riders, the Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): I thank the Secretary statutory protection of the environment and the national of State for her pragmatic approach. I seek her assurance habitat and the long-term securing of our natural that there will be an attempt to achieve not only political woodlands were all contained in my right hon. Friend’s consensus but a consensus across the country, in the proposals, but none of them was put forward either by hope that we can go forward with a better scheme—in Her Majesty’s Opposition or—dare one say it?—by the sharp contrast, it has to be said, with the sales by stealth push-button campaigners. Those protections need to be made by the Labour Government, whose financial policy hung on to. My right hon. Friend was not wrong; she appears to be that money grows on trees. was right. Will she make certain that this Government protect our forests for the future, as the Opposition, when they were in government, never did? Mrs Spelman: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his observation, and his wonderful turn of phrase. He is, of Mrs Spelman: Of course, I am happy to give that course, absolutely right that this is a difficult issue, as undertaking. It is important to remember that a number previous Administrations have found. I am encouraged of statutory protections—governing access, rights of to think that the amount of interest generated in way, wildlife protection, planning, the care of our woodlands constituencies will encourage Members on both sides of and felling—are already in place. In addition to all that, the House to participate in this fresh approach to we Ministers have made it clear on a number of occasions finding the best future for our woodlands and forests. that we want to increase protection for access and other public benefits, because it is apparent from the sales Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): On behalf made by the previous Administration that parts of that of the many hundreds of constituents in Brighton, are not adequate. Pavilion who wrote to me in opposition to the forest sell-off, I warmly welcome this U-turn. May I press the Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): I welcome Secretary of State on the question of the independent the decision to pulp this policy. The Secretary of State’s panel? How, precisely, will it include the voices of those attitude towards the House today seems to be that inspirational grass-roots movements that led the campaign nanny has been misunderstood, and that if people had against the forest sell-off? Will she guarantee that its understood Government policy better they might have meetings will be held in public? embraced it. Let me tell her, on the basis of experience in my constituency, that that is not the case. How will Mrs Spelman: I hope that the hon. Lady will have the right hon. Lady ensure that the millions of people heard in my statement what I said about the helpful who wrote to their MPs and marched against the policy contributions of the large grass-roots campaigning will have their voices heard on the independent panel? organisations to debate on this subject. I am quite sure that they will be part of the wide group that we will Mrs Spelman: I thought that I made it perfectly clear, draw in on our independent panel. and said quite straightforwardly to the House, that in this case we got it wrong; we listened, and we are going Mr Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con): I to take a fresh approach. welcome the statement, and I do so also on behalf of Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): I very my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East much welcome the Secretary of State’s response, because (Dr Lewis), who as you know, Mr Speaker, is detained I think we can now be very positive about this, and elsewhere. [Interruption.] On the business of the House, think about how we manage the forests, how the Forestry Mr Speaker! Commission can help the smaller forests and how we can get greater public access and biodiversity in them. Mr Speaker: I am greatly reassured by what the hon. Gentleman has just said. Mrs Spelman: I thank my hon. Friend for that observation. It is encouraging that the Forestry Commission Mr Swayne: Does my right hon. Friend agree that the agrees that reform is needed, and that we together course she has set is much more likely to ensure that should have the ambition to do better for our forests some of the opportunities inherent in her proposals for and woodlands and to enhance and protect their the New Forest will be brought forward and implemented biodiversity. than would have been the case under the previous 1161 Forestry (England)17 FEBRUARY 2011 Forestry (England) 1162 means of consulting the House? May I also say to you, them on the Government Benches—Liberal Democrats Mr Speaker, that I am surprised and shocked by the and Tories—to vote for the opposite of what she is singular lack of grace shown by some hon. Members? saying now?

Mrs Spelman: I would certainly like to give my hon. Mrs Spelman: It is only humiliating if we are afraid to Friend that assurance, and the vehicle of an independent say sorry, and one of the things we teach our children is panel representing a wide range of views to advise to be honest. It is not a question of humiliation; it is my Ministers is, as he suggests, likely to produce a better choice. outcome. Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con): When the Labour party was in office, were any consultations Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): I welcome the held in which the views of the public were actually Secretary of State’s apology to the House for this debacle, listened to? and the spirit in which it was given. Will she explain the situation in respect of the receipts that were anticipated Mrs Spelman: The one that comes to mind is the Post from the sale of up to 15% of the land? Will she also Office consultation, which we all remember really was a reassure the House that in considering how to proceed sham. with the English forest estate, she will pay particular attention to the green infrastructure of land around Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) cities and the climate change connectivity necessary to (Lab): A huge number of my constituents have written extend forests into such areas so that the effects of to me in the strongest possible terms on this important climate change are mitigated? issue. Will the Secretary of State set out clearly and fully how they can make their views known in public directly Mrs Spelman: There are quite a few dimensions to to the panel? that question. As the permanent secretary said when she and I were interviewed by the Environment, Food Mrs Spelman: I think the hon. Lady will know from and Rural Affairs Committee in the autumn, she would the e-mails she has received that the fears of many of have regarded any revenue from the planned sale of our constituents were raised by their understanding 15% of the land as a bonus, because she could not be of the forestry clauses in the Public Bodies Bill, and one sure about that. Now that those sales have been suspended, of the things she can do is write to her constituents to the situation depends on the outcome from the panel, explain that those clauses have now been removed. The but our Department’s spending plans are not affected Department always responds to all correspondence directed by the change. to it, and the hon. Lady has more than one vehicle to It is clear that extra woodland cover in proximity to suggest by which the public can engage with us on the urban areas has a greatly beneficial effect, and the way forward in forestry and woodland policy in this Government have an ambition to plant 1 million trees, country. which I hope will also enhance biodiversity. Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): I welcome the statement, and its tone certainly contrasted with the Nick Boles (Grantham and Stamford) (Con): The somewhat ungracious response from the Opposition Secretary of State has had the honesty and guts to come Front Bench; we got no apology for the 25,000 acres here to say that she presented ideas to the British public, they flogged off. The concern in my constituency generally but the British public did not much like them, so she relates to private forests and the public protections we said sorry and came up with a new approach. Is it not need to ensure we continue to have a benefit. Will the instructive that that is in such amazing contrast to the independent panel and the review continue to look at behaviour of that lot on the Opposition Benches who, the protections for private forests as well as the public no matter how many acres of woodland they sold and estate? no matter how much gold they sold and at what price, nevertheless ran our economy into the ditch, from which Mrs Spelman: I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. we are trying to dig it out? The public forest estate accounts for 18% of woodland cover in this country, so the vast majority of forest and Mrs Spelman: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As woodland is in private ownership, and part of the point part of restoring trust in politics, it is important that the of moving to a fresh approach with an independent electorate see that the Government will listen. It is also panel and widening the range of questions under very important in our new politics to be transparent, consideration is to look at forestry policy and woodland and I agree that had the previous Government consulted policy in general. and been transparent about the terms and conditions of the sale of the public forest estate, it might have greatly Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): I welcome helped the understanding of this issue. the Secretary of State’s climbdown on behalf of the constituents who have expressed anger and disbelief to Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): Is me about what is happening, but given both that the not this humiliating climbdown—[HON.MEMBERS: “Oh!”] Government have said this is meant to be the greenest Oh yes, you all voted for it; every one of you. Is not this Government ever and that they have got rid of the humiliating climbdown a tribute to the anger of huge Sustainable Development Commission, is it not about numbers of people, including large numbers of my own time that what has happened to this policy does not constituents, who said they would not have this? Is it happen in all the other areas of biodiversity? Is it not not deplorable that the right hon. Lady has been made time that the Government set out how they are going to to stand in the corner with a dunce’s cap on her head by embed sustainable development in all future policy in a Cabinet that two weeks ago drummed the whole lot of both urban and rural areas? 1163 Forestry (England)17 FEBRUARY 2011 Forestry (England) 1164

Mrs Spelman: The hon. Lady is Chairman of the Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): Environmental Audit Committee and I respect that, but Will the right hon. Lady please explain to my constituents I encourage her to look at the Government’s first nine why she has wasted so much of her time scurrying months in the round. In that period, my Department between TV and radio stations, desperately trying to has had the success of concluding a multilateral agreement defend selling off our forests before having to make an on biodiversity, as well as making sure we have a ban in embarrassing U-turn today, when she could have been place on commercial whaling, and protecting and enhancing taking action to tackle urgent issues such as dangerous biodiversity through maintaining the environmental dogs? stewardship scheme, to name but three measures to put in the balance. Later this spring, a natural environment Mrs Spelman: I have not been anywhere near a TV or White Paper will be published as well, of course. radio station all day because I understand the primacy of Parliament. It is important to come here first and Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): I gave a make a statement. Naturally, as a Minister, in addition ministerial answer once saying, “I’m sorry, I made a to dealing with the issue of forests, I have a large mistake.” That was not duplicated once during the number of matters with which the Department is dealing. 13 years of the Labour Government. Will the Secretary We always ensure that they are not compromised or of State consult Felix Dennis and the Tree Council affected by anything that we may be dealing with at one about voluntary planting, and will she also allow me to point in time. say that many of the messages on this got caught in spam filters, so many of the 500,000 people who sent Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD): I welcome the Secretary of e-mails may not have received a reply? State’s announcement today, and I regret the lack of clarity on access for the public and on the protection for Mrs Spelman: My hon. Friend is living proof that it is biodiversity and landscape. I do not understand why we perfectly possible to say sorry and continue to provide a are cancelling a consultation when the new panel will very valuable service in this House. The point he makes need to hear and make its decision by autumn. It might shows why humility is a good quality in a politician. be more logical to continue with the consultation for the remaining ten and a half weeks so that the public Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): I can continue to add their views to the current process. thank the Secretary of State for changing her mind; it is a relief she has done so. May I also ask her to seize the Mrs Spelman: It is clear from the early responses that opportunity, because what she tried to do has brought members of the public are responding in many cases to to light a passion for our woodlands and forests that what they have read in the press or what they have many of us did not realise was so great? As chairman of heard, rather than necessarily understanding the policy. the John Clare Trust, I appeal to her to use it. Forests Many of the responses were received before the publication are wonderful, and natural forests are even better, but of the policy on 27 January. Looking at those early we have got to get children and families to visit forests. responses, it is difficult for Ministers to proceed with The likelihood of a child visiting any green space has the consultation as it is. None the less, all those responses halved in a generation, so will she also consider how we and the questions contained in the consultation will be can expand forests and get people to use them? part of the work that the independent panel will review. Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): Will the Mrs Spelman: That is a constructive suggestion, which Secretary of State clarify what the impact of this welcome I am sure the panel will take forward. Many non- U-turn will be on the Forestry Commission’s plans to governmental organisations and green groups have spoken cut 400 jobs across the country? to us about the opportunity such a panel presents to deal with some of the issues that beset our forests and Mrs Spelman: I can explain to the hon. Gentleman woodlands, and to address their own aspirations to do that the Forestry Commission’s plans to make savings better by them. in line with the savings that my Department and other Government Departments must make have no connection Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Will my right hon. at all to the consultation or the setting up of an independent Friend confirm that we definitely will not be pursuing panel. Savings are necessary because we have to fill a the policies of the previous Government, such as selling hole in the nation’s finances that was left behind by the 25,000 hectares of forest without any access granted? Government of whose party he is a member. Will she also confirm that the thrust of Government policy will be to transfer forests to communities so that Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): May I put on they can own them via co-operatives or other community record my thanks to the Secretary of State for listening bodies? to me and my constituents over the past month, and may I encourage her not to listen to the Opposition, Mrs Spelman: Ministers have on numerous occasions who sold off woodland greater in area than the city of given reassurances to the House that we would not Nottingham during their term in office? I wonder whether proceed with those planned sales without better protection this is an opportunity to increase the biodiversity of being in place. I am sure the independent panel will woodlands such as Sherwood in Nottinghamshire, by look at the genuine interest from community and local increasing the number of broadleaf trees and oaks groups in being more involved in the management rather than the coniferous woodland that exists at present. and ownership of their local forests. There are many examples of communities that have successfully provided Mrs Spelman: Yes, I can give my hon. Friend that a safe future for the woodlands and forests near where assurance. I thank him for his positive approach. There they live. certainly is an opportunity to improve and enhance 1165 Forestry (England)17 FEBRUARY 2011 Forestry (England) 1166 biodiversity. Non-governmental organisations such as Mrs Spelman: I am always interested in volunteers. the Woodland Trust have expressed a desire to increase We are looking particularly for those who have a good the rate of restoring plantations on ancient woodland understanding of the issues involved in the management sites, and the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds of forests and woodland. I have named before the is keen to look at the restoration of heathlands. That is House a number of green groups that have a long precisely the opportunity that this fresh approach affords. heritage of protection of our environment, but it is important that we have representatives of the private Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I am forest estates, so if the hon. Gentleman has suggestions not sure that it is ever wrong to terminate a failed he should let me have them. policy, but given the sudden and abrupt end to the right hon. Lady’s plans, will she tell us how much public Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): I am sorry that money has been wasted on this fiasco so far? the Chancellor has gone, because I wanted to thank him as well as the Secretary of State for the great boost they Mrs Spelman: The advantage of modern technology have given to Blaydon Labour party over the past few is that documents such as consultation documents are weeks during this fiasco. I thank my hon. Friend the now largely viewable online, so in the figures that I gave Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) for mentioning about the number of responses that we had received the great work that is being done by the people fighting and the number of hard copies dispatched, the hon. to save Chopwell woods. My message to them is, “Don’t Gentleman will be able to see that the public expenditure stop fighting.” What has happened today is not the end is minimal. of the story. I want to ask the Secretary of State one specific question. Will there be a representative of the Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) work force on the independent panel? They know what (Con): I thank and commend the Secretary of State for is going on. her bravery and honesty on this subject. What has emerged from the woodwork is not just thousands of Mrs Spelman: As I said clearly, the representation on constituent e-mails, but a significant number of eminent the independent panel will be broad, with as wide a academics and professors with knowledge of the subject. range of views as possible of those who have an interest How can they feed in their views to the expert panel? in our forests and woodlands.

Mrs Spelman: I can assure my hon. Friend that Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con): My right honesty is always the best policy. That is what I always hon. Friend is aware that I have three forests in my try to teach my children. The interest in the subject has constituency—Rendlesham, Dunwich and Tunstall—and produced very good suggestions from scientists and I held a public meeting last Friday. People there will academics about ways in which we can improve biodiversity welcome the announcement that she has made today, and the protection that currently exists for woodlands particularly those who are concerned about access. I am and forests. They, too, will have the opportunity to feed encouraging those people to join bodies such as the in to the panel through the Department or directly to Suffolk Wildlife Trust and Friends of Sandlings Forest, the representatives on the panel. but a particular point came up about access. Horse riders, carriage drivers and cyclists are slightly concerned John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): that some of the organisations that my right hon. Will the Secretary of State take the opportunity to Friend mentions are closing access now, supposedly to dissociate herself from the disgraceful comments from protect biodiversity, wildlife and so on. Will she being the hon. Member for North Thanet (Mr Gale), who is that to the attention of the panel when it meets? no longer in his place, that the many thousands of people who were roused to anger by the proposals were Mrs Spelman: I would be delighted to bring those push-button campaigners? concerns to the panel. I know that my hon. Friend has met large numbers of people in her constituency and Mrs Spelman: I am unaware of those remarks and approached the whole issue with great diligence. I think not in a position to comment. The hon. Gentleman has she would therefore acknowledge that there are some heard from me that I entirely respect the passion that important questions to resolve, and tensions between people in our country have for their woodlands and different access groups. This is precisely one of the forests—a passion that I share and applaud. I want to aspects that I will ask the independent panel to look at. make sure that it is responded to by creating the best possible future for our forests and woodlands. Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): I congratulate the Secretary of State on at least resolving a centuries-old Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): I philosophical problem—namely, if a tree falls in the am a member of a partnership that is in receipt of farm forest and one takes one’s eye off it, it does make a woodland grants to promote public goods such as access noise. It makes a noise sufficiently loud to be heard and biodiversity—but in Wales, not in England, which right across the country and to expose the lack of grip is the subject of the statement? I am very pleased that that the Prime Minister has on his Government’s policies. the Secretary of State has broadened the consultation to cover private forestry and woodland, which, when Mrs Spelman: I do not think that there was a question well managed, can deliver both commercially and in at the heart of that. The whole point of my statement terms of public goods. How does she intend to recruit was to make it abundantly clear that we are a Government people to represent this part of the industry, or is she who listen and, having listened, are prepared to take the looking for volunteers? right action. 1167 Forestry (England)17 FEBRUARY 2011 Forestry (England) 1168

Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): I take it respond to them. I hope that hon. Members will be able that the shadow Secretary of State has a commitment to use today’s statement to communicate with the many to recycling, given the way she shamelessly plagiarised people from whom they have received correspondence. the joke by my hon. Friend the Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), the president of the Liberal Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con): Like all Democrats. I praise the Secretary of State for her honesty Government Members, I congratulate the Secretary of and courage, which the public want to see more of in State on this extremely important statement. May I put our politicians. I am proud to be part of a Government on the record the number of people in South Derbyshire who listen to people, unlike the previous Government. I who support the national forest and who were very ask that, as we go forward, we do not lose some of the concerned, but whose fears I am now able to allay? The positive proposals, particularly those on real, long-term national forest is such a good product that I hope we protection for our important heritage forests. will be to make it larger once the independent panel has been set up. Mrs Spelman: I can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. In the normal sequence of events, the independent panel would give advice to Ministers, and Mrs Spelman: I can certainly give my hon. Friend if Ministers judged it to be correct we would then that assurance. We should have the ambition to try to proceed with a consultation White Paper, which might increase woodland cover, and the national forest is a give rise to legislation if changes in the law were required good example of an amenity that reaches out to a wide to provide the extra protection. cross-section of society, providing the opportunity for enhanced biodiversity and public access. It is the Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): I genuinely Government’s aspiration to plant more trees, and the welcome the Government’s response. One of the plagues national forest is a good example of how that can be of politics is that it can sometimes be very difficult to done well. back down and admit that something was wrong. I urge the Secretary of State, having reprieved vulnerable trees, John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): I welcome the statement to urge some of her colleagues to reprieve vulnerable and applaud the fundamental decency, integrity, people who will be subject to benefit cuts. transparency and humility that the Secretary of State has shown. Given the hundreds of e-mails that we have Mrs Spelman: I thank the hon. Lady for the good all received, I suggest that there is an opportunity to spirit with which she received my statement to the harness the great interest in a sustainable woodland for House, but I am sure that she will understand that the the benefit of the country. Perhaps she would set out protection of vulnerable people in other regards is ways in which those many people can contribute to that outwith my Department’s responsibilities. future that they seek. David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): I congratulate the Secretary of State on this decision and Mrs Spelman: I thank my hon. Friend for his kind thank her on behalf of the 1,000 constituents who remarks. This has been a difficult issue, as I have said, e-mailed me requesting a review. May I also make her but it has also provided an opportunity to encourage all aware of the fact that the Opposition, when in government, those people who corresponded with us to be more sold off forest land three times the size of Blackpool involved in the protection and enhancement of our before this policy was even put before Members? woodlands by volunteering. Engaging with our constituents in the opportunities to plant more trees and protect our Mrs Spelman: My hon. Friend makes a clear point, woodlands is a good outcome for all of us who love our which we would have liked to have seen acknowledged woods and forests. by the Opposition, but let us try to be more generous- spirited and learn from their previous mistakes. If it was Mr Aidan Burley (Cannock Chase) (Con): Under the wrong to sell off the public forest estate with inadequate policy of the previous Labour Government, Cannock protection, we as a new Government can do better. chase could have been sold off without any protection Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): I for access whatsoever. That would have been completely congratulate the Secretary of State on her statement reversed by the granting of heritage status under the and the manner in which she delivered it. More than Secretary of State’s previous proposals. The people of 300 constituents have written to me on the subject and Cannock chase will rightly feel that today’s decision will be reassured to have a Government who are prepared leaves their forest as exposed as it was under Labour, so to listen to them and act on their concerns. I urge her to what reassurances can she give that the granting of resist any temptation to take any lessons from the heritage status will remain an option for the independent Opposition, whose consultations in general, and on panel and that there are no plans, and never were, to sell woodlands in particular, were either lamentable or non- off Cannock chase? existent. Mrs Spelman: I can give my hon. Friend an absolute Mrs Spelman: I thank my hon. Friend for that assurance that, as Ministers have said many times, we observation. It is right that I should acknowledge fully wish to protect access and other public benefits for all before the House that we have all received much woodlands and forests. I will certainly encourage the correspondence as constituency MPs, whether electronic independent panel to look at the issue of heritage or in hard copy. This is an important opportunity for us forests. He has done an admirable job of speaking up as parliamentarians to demonstrate that we do debate for Cannock chase and made a strong case for it being in Parliament, that we are able to communicate with considered a heritage forest, and I am sure that his our constituents and that we listen and are prepared to constituents will thank him all the more for that. 1169 Forestry (England)17 FEBRUARY 2011 Forestry (England) 1170

David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): The residents of countryside was being treated was manifestly wrong. Macclesfield enjoy the wonderful benefits of access to Over the years, they rode roughshod over us, and that Macclesfield forest, which is owned by United Utilities. was totally wrong. As my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) has said, access for horse riding groups, Mrs Spelman: It is more than my life is worth to get climbers and walkers will be important and needs to be drawn into a competition over who has the best forest, considered in future. Will the Secretary of State confirm as we all have candidates, but my hon. Friend is right, that access will be at the heart of the terms of reference and he can be reassured that the Government, drawn that will be crafted for the new independent panel? from two parties with a large number of rural constituencies, have taken rural issues and the needs of the countryside Mrs Spelman: I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. very close to their heart indeed. It is important that the panel looks at all forms of Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): I, too, commend access, including access for walkers, riders and cyclists, the Secretary of State on the very gracious way in which because sometimes their needs are not completely she made her statement, which in itself executes a compatible. As has been explained to me, if a horse ruts welcome policy re-think, showing that this Government, a path, it is not easy for a cyclist to go along that same at least, listen to the views of constituents. In that path. A good way forward for the panel is to look at regard, will she help me to reassure the 1,250 people those different forms of access. We want to expand who wrote to me in Bristol West about the issue—the access to our forests and woodlands because it is in biggest postbag I have ever had on any issue in my six everyone’s interests that we do so. years’ membership of the House—that the primary Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): The Secretary focus of the independent panel will be to enhance of State will be aware that the third largest forest in public access to woodlands, whether they are under England, Thetford forest, is largely in my constituency, Forestry Commission management or not? and I received an awful lot of correspondence on the Mrs Spelman: I am not going to get drawn into who subject. I will be sending all correspondents a copy of had the largest postbag, either, but I absolutely can give this exchange, because I think that the dignified way in the hon. Gentleman that assurance. Our absolute priority, which she has carried herself has been exemplary and as I said, is to protect and to enhance access to, and they will be reassured by everything she has said. The other public benefits of, our forests and woodlands, so I overwhelming point they made to me was that the most hope that he can reassure some of the 1,250 people with important things for the future of the forests are access whom he corresponded that that is the case. rights, the protection of biodiversity and not using the matter as a political football, as some have sought to do. Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): I, too, thank my right hon. Friend for listening to public concern, but Mrs Spelman: My hon. Friend’s constituents are when she sets up her independent panel, will she ensure absolutely right: forests and woodlands are precious to that it supports small-scale independent nature reserves this country and we should be seeking to protect them such as my local Hodge lane nature reserve in Tamworth, and enhance their biodiversity. The aspiration of the where every week volunteers come together to do important Woodland Trust to accelerate the rate of restoration work, including coppicing, planting and clearing? The and plantation on ancient woodland sites is a good work that they do for their environment needs to be example of how we can provide an even better future supported, too. for our forests. Mrs Spelman: I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con): I welcome the Secretary I hope that he heard—through some of the groups that of State’s statement and thank her for listening to the have talked to our Department about the issue, including robust challenges from myself and other Government the Wildlife Trust—that we do appreciate the huge Members. It takes a lot to put your hand up, say you got amount of volunteering and work by the public, who it wrong and say sorry in a place like this, but I believe care passionately about nature and their nature reserves, that, in doing so, the Secretary of State and the Government woodlands and forests. That will, indeed, be integral, will have earned a great deal of respect from the country. and fostering that spirit of volunteering, in the spirit of the big society, is something that the panel will very Mrs Spelman: I thank my hon. Friend for that. I do definitely look at. remember his robust advice to me, and I hope he feels reassured to know that I have heeded it. We can all learn Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): throughout life from all the decisions that we take, and I Does the Secretary of State agree that it makes a hugely am certainly part of the wide body of mankind that will refreshing change to have a Government who consult do so. and genuinely listen to the mood of the people, rather than just dogmatically driving through policy in the Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): I thank the Secretary face of public opposition, as the previous Labour of State for having the common sense to change her Government did? I compliment the Secretary of State mind and to preserve Kielder, which is larger than on her courage and honesty and offer her the comfort Thetford, for sure. of remembering that there is never a bad time to do the right thing. Mr Burley: But not as nice as Cannock chase. Mrs Spelman: Those are very wise words, indeed, and Guy Opperman: And even better than Cannock chase. a very important lesson for all of us is that no Government In reality, the Opposition’s criticism is wrong, should ever stop listening. Listening is part of what we because many of us got into this business and ran are called to do as parliamentarians, and I for one hope for Parliament because we thought that the way the never to stop listening. 1171 17 FEBRUARY 2011 1172

Points of Order first two and exclude the rest? The current situation is an abuse of Back-Bench freedoms. 1.34 pm Madam Deputy Speaker: The tabling of questions is Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and not one of the responsibilities of the Chair, but I am Lesmahagow) (Lab): On a point of order, Madam sure that all Members heard the hon. Gentleman’s Deputy Speaker. In a response to a question that I observations. Seeing as he has a proposal for dealing asked yesterday about 150 job losses at the Department with the point, I suggest that he might ask the Procedure for International Development’s East Kilbride office in Committee to consider whether the issue is within its my constituency, the International Development Secretary remit. It is certainly not within mine as a Deputy said: Speaker. “DFID is not immune from the cuts and will see reductions of some 33% in its administrative spend. I had the opportunity of Chris Williamson: On a point of order, Madam Deputy speaking to all the staff at Abercrombie house just a few days ago Speaker. In response to a question about atomic veterans to make sure that that was understood.”—[Official Report,16February from my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe 2011; Vol. 523, c. 947.] (Nic Dakin) at the most recent Defence questions, the In making that statement, the Secretary of State Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the right hon. suggested that he had broken the news of the job losses Member for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan), personally. In actual fact, he visited the office in East inadvertently misled the House when he said that Kilbride on 3 February—a week before the job losses “the courts have found that there is no causal link whatever were announced. Can I ask your advice, Madam Deputy between many of the disabilities and illnesses suffered and exposure Speaker, on how we can correct what was probably an to any radiation.”—[Official Report, 31 January 2011; Vol. 522, inadvertent mistake by the Secretary of State and set c. 573.] the record straight? The truth is that the courts have made no such finding, and all attempts to get the Minister to correct the Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Iam record have so far proved unsuccessful. Could I therefore grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that point of ask you, Madam Deputy Speaker, to remind Ministers order. The Leader of the House will have heard his of the importance of correcting the record when they comments and, I am sure, be able to pass them on, but I get their facts wrong? also suggest that the hon. Gentleman goes to the Table Office specifically with a request on how he can pursue Madam Deputy Speaker: I hope that no Member the matter through the House in order to clarify the needs to be urged by the Chair to correct the record if situation. they felt that something they had said in the Chamber was not correct. I feel that the hon. Gentleman is trying Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): On to open up the debate again, but, if he wants to pursue a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. On the the issue, I would give him the same advice as I gave a protection of Back Benchers’ rights, those of us who few moments ago, in that he should pursue with the attend departmental questions regularly are becoming Table Office the question of how to ensure that it is increasingly worried by the way in which Government clarified. All Members—Ministers and Back Benchers—are Whips systematically organise the tabling of questions. responsible for what they say, however, not the Chair. Today, if one looks at the Order Paper, one sees that eight questions—eight out of 25—all ask: “How many apprenticeship starts there have been in the academic Business without Debate year 2010-11”. We all know that Government Whips use that method ESTIMATES to block off other questions; I know it goes on, and I think you know it goes on, Madam Deputy Speaker. If Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing the Whips are going to use it, however, could they be Order No. 145), more inventive? They could at least ask people to ask That this House agrees with the Report [15 February] of the different questions. Indeed, could we not have a method Liaison Committee.—(Sir George Young.) whereby if eight questions are tabled, we take just the Question agreed to. 1173 17 FEBRUARY 2011 1174

Social Security back in the pension credit. This has been done by linking the minimum increase for the pension credit to Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): I understand the cash increase for the basic state pension this year. that it will be for the convenience of the House if we Therefore, from April 2011, single people on pension take motions 2 and 3 together. credit will receive an above-earnings increase to their standard minimum guarantee of £4.75, which will take their weekly income to £137.35. Of course, as you will 1.39 pm be well aware, Madam Deputy Speaker, this is in addition The Minister of State, Department for Work and to the key support for pensioners that the coalition Pensions (Steve Webb): I beg to move, protected in the spending review: free NHS eye tests; free NHS prescription charges; free bus passes; free TV That the draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2011, licences for over-75s; and winter fuel payments exactly which was laid before this House on 3 February, be approved. as budgeted for by the previous Government. In addition, we have reversed a planned cut—one of Labour’s many Madam Deputy Speaker: With this we shall discuss ticking time bombs that I discovered in my in-box. The the following motion on pensions: previous Administration had planned to reduce the That the draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2011, cold weather payment from the pre-election—I use that which was laid before this House on 3 February, be approved. phrase deliberately—rate of £25 a week to just £8.50 a week. We took the view that despite money being tight, Steve Webb: I shall deal briefly with the Guaranteed helping elderly people on a low income to heat their Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2011. The order homes in winter was vital and a priority for the coalition. provides for contracted-out defined benefits schemes to I can update the House by saying that we have paid increase by 3% their members’ guaranteed minimum slightly more than we thought—an estimated 17.2 million pensions that accrued between 1988 and 1997. Increases payments worth an estimated £430 million, which we are capped at this level when price inflation exceeds 3%. believe is money well spent. This is a technical matter that is attended to on an annual basis, and I suspect that it will not be the focus Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): Naturally, of our discussions. elderly people will be relieved by the news about the The broader uprating of social security benefits this winter fuel and cold weather payments. However, is not year is a landmark event for two reasons. First, it the Minister concerned that in the longer run the cut in enshrines the restoration of the earnings link for the funding for Warm Front will mean that those pensioners basic state pension. Secondly, it introduces a clear and have higher fuel bills? consistent approach to price measurement through the move from the retail prices index to the consumer prices Steve Webb: The hon. Lady is absolutely right that index. I suspect that a lot of our debate will focus on home insulation is an important part of this: it is not that issue, but I want to turn first to pensions and just about helping people to pay their fuel bills, but pensioners. It is more than 30 years since the link about improving the insulation standards of their homes. between the basic state pension and earnings was broken. Our colleagues at the Department of Energy and Climate Although Labour Members talked a good game towards Change are working on the issue and will shortly introduce the end of their time in office, they had 13 years in proposals that will build on the energy rebate scheme, which to restore that link, and they failed every year to which took place in 2010, whereby low-income pensioners do so. and others—the most vulnerable households—received The coalition Government said that they would restore direct payments. I understand that a further scheme will the earnings link for the basic pension, and that is shortly be brought forward which will benefit exactly precisely what we have done. Indeed, we have gone one the people that she talks about. better with the introduction of our triple guarantee, Despite the pressure on public expenditure, the coalition, which means that the basic pension will be increased by through these orders, will be spending an extra £4.3 billion whichever is highest of earnings, prices or 2.5%. We in 2011-12 to ensure that people are protected against estimate that the average person retiring on a full basic cost of living increases, and of that, fully £3.4 billion pension this year will receive more than £15,000 extra in will be spent on pensioners. basic state pension income over their retirement than they would have done under the old prices link. This Let me move on to the second landmark change—the important change will be a benefit to existing and move to the consumer prices index. At one stage, the future pensioners. It will provide a more generous basic House thought that it might have a jolly three hours on state pension, giving a solid financial foundation from price indices after an all-night sitting, so we are probably the state. So from this April, the standard rate for the all relieved that we got a bit more sleep before entering basic state pension will rise by £4.50 a week, taking it this territory. The purpose of the annual uprating exercise from £97.65 to £102.15 a week. The introduction of this is to ensure that the purchasing power of social security triple guarantee will finally halt the decline in the value benefits is protected against inflation. We view the CPI of the basic state pension for current and future pensions. as the most appropriate measure of price inflation for It will also mean that even in times of slow earnings this purpose, although we would acknowledge no single growth, we will never again see a repeat of derisory index is perfect. The CPI is increases such as the 75p rise presided over by the “more reliable because, taking account of spending by all consumers, previous Government in 2000. this consumer prices index gives a better measure than the old RPIX measure of spending patterns. It is more precise because, as In addition to restoring the earnings link, we have in America and the euro area, it takes better account of consumers taken action to ensure that the poorest pensioners do substituting cheaper for more expensive goods.”—[Official Report, not see the increase to their basic state pension clawed 10 December 2003; Vol. 415, c. 1063.] 1175 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1176

[Steve Webb] difficult financial position; I would not pretend that it does not. However, our job is to have an appropriate, They are not my words, but those of the then Chancellor, stable measure of inflation, and that is what the CPI the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath achieves. [Interruption.] Indeed, it is much less volatile. (Mr Brown). I could not agree more. Increases in line I sometimes think—perhaps this makes me sound a with the growth in the CPI maintain benefit and pension bit sad—that if the CPI were a person, it would be value. The CPI is the country’s headline measure of taking people to court for slander and libel for some of inflation, forming the target for the Bank of England’s the things that have been said about it over the past few Monetary Policy Committee. I remind the House that weeks and months. It is almost as if it is a stray number the legislation under which this order is made requires that we found on the back of a fag packet and decided that we reflect the “general level of prices”. to use to up-rate benefits. In fact, it is a careful calculation It would be remiss of me not to thank the Leader of by the Office for National Statistics, with excruciating the Opposition for his support for our position on this amounts of thorough methodological detail about the issue. When Laura Kuenssberg of the BBC challenged general increase in consumer prices. It is not the only him at a press conference on 11 January, saying, measure, but it is an entirely decent and proper one. “You’ve said time and time again that you will not oppose I want to respond to some of the myths that have every cut; but four months into the job, the list of cuts that you grown up about CPI, and to stress that this is not a will support remains pretty short,” choice between a good index and a bad index, but about the Leader of the Opposition said: trying to find the most appropriate measure for the “Let me just say on the cuts, I listed four cuts that we had not purpose. The first argument that is made is that CPI is opposed, but it’s not just four cuts...from Employment Support always lower. As I have pointed out, that is not true, Allowance to some of the changes to Disability Living Allowance, although it is lower on average over the long term. to the changes to the Consumer Price Index and RPI, to a range People criticise the methodology that is used. I will of other measures, we’re not opposing all the cuts.” explain what the difference is and why we think it is I am very grateful to him for his support. appropriate. Somewhat more than half the difference between RPI and CPI is to do with the way in which Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): Would the CPI assumes that people change their behaviour when hon. Gentleman like to quote the Leader of the Opposition prices change. CPI uses a substitution method, which further, where he said that if there were a case to be assumes that people substitute for cheaper goods. made for shifting to the CPI, it would be a temporary Interestingly, the Institute for Fiscal Studies, which has move, not a permanent one? looked at this issue, has said that that difference is a “sound rationale for the switch” Steve Webb: I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I have that we are making today. RPI does not do that. Even heard it intimated that the Opposition support using a the Royal Statistical Society, which has been critical of temporary measure of inflation before using a different aspects of our proposals, states that RPI arguably overstates one in the future. I can see the politics of that, but not inflation as a result. I stress that we are trying to find its coherence. The duty on my right hon. Friend the not a high number or a low number, but an appropriate Secretary of State is to measure the general increase in number with an appropriate method. Particularly for price levels in an appropriate way, and it would be very those on benefits, the substitution approach is important. odd if he were to decide one year that the CPI, with its method of calculating on a basket of goods, was the It is worth adding in parenthesis that people who say right answer, and then four years later, because there that RPI is the only possible way in which we can uprate was a bit more money, that there was a different answer. pensions, because it is appropriate for pensioners, seem That is not the legal duty on my right hon. Friend. to be oblivious to the fact that RPI excludes the poorest fifth of pensioners from its consumption patterns. Their Dame Anne Begg: Will the hon. Gentleman clarify spending patterns are deliberately excluded in the whether the move from RPI to CPI has anything to do construction of RPI. It seems odd that people are so with deficit reduction, which would be a reasonable wedded to RPI on purity grounds when it excludes the argument as to why it might be temporary? most vulnerable pensioners, about whom we should be most concerned. Steve Webb: The hon. Lady asks an important question. The second myth is that the UK Statistics Authority I will deal specifically with the budget deficit. However, does not think that CPI is a proper measure of inflation. when we looked at this issue as a new Government, we [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel were prompted particularly by the context of a year in Reeves) says that she has not said that, but I assure her which the RPI had been negative. We arrived in May that I have seen it in plenty of letters. The UK Statistics 2010. In April 2010, uprating had been nil for the state Authority oversees the Office for National Statistics, so earnings-related pension scheme, public sector pensions it would be very odd if it thought that the ONS was and all the connected pensions. That is not because producing dodgy figures. CPI is the headline measure inflation for pensioners had been nil—I have never met and it is the target for the Bank of England, so it is hard a pensioner who thought they had negative inflation in to see how it is not a proper measure of inflation. the year to September 2009—but because that is what Thirdly, some say that the Royal Statistical Society the RPI said. The RPI was clearly not doing its job does not like CPI. It has certainly criticised some aspects then, and that focused our mind on whether it was the of the change, but it takes a more balanced view and right thing. It is true that, on average, the CPI tends to sees limitations in CPI and RPI. As I have said, no be lower—not always, but generally. I have looked at the single measure is perfect. The Royal Statistical Society past 20 years, and in five of those the RPI has been has highlighted the issue of housing costs, and I will lower than the CPI. That improves the situation in a come on to that because it is clearly important. 1177 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1178

The fourth thing that people say is that this is a real Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): Will the cut to the value of benefits. [Interruption.] The hon. Government give the House a time scale in which it will Member for Glasgow East (Margaret Curran) says that consider these matters to do with CPI? Obviously, council it is, but it is not. What we are doing is measuring tax also has to be taken into account. inflation in an entirely proper manner and increasing benefits—revaluing and reflating them—every year in Steve Webb: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising line with inflation, measured in an appropriate way. that point. We are, of course, driven by the Office for That is what indexation is meant to do. There is no National Statistics, so we are not cobbling together our argument for saying that it is a cut when we are increasing own index. It is undertaking careful work over the next benefits and pensions by inflation. Only a couple of two years. We will then look at its findings and consider nights ago, the lead story on the BBC news was “Inflation whether it is appropriate to use a CPIH-type measure. hits 4%”. Indeed, CPI inflation had hit 4%. That was We are governed by the ONS’s time scales. the headline, that is inflation, and that is what we are I will comment briefly on benefits for people of uprating benefits by. working age. Unfortunately, last year the Government got themselves into a bit of a mess over uprating. As I Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): I think that I have said, RPI was showing negative inflation, mainly know the answer to my question on the basis of what as a result of falling mortgage interest. As a result, the Minister is saying, but I want him to confirm it. Is it benefits such as additional state pensions did not increase the Government’s intention that the change from RPI at all. They would have done under CPI. Other benefits, to CPI will not be temporary, but permanent? mainly the disability and carers’ benefits, were the subject of what my notes call a bewildering fudge—I think that Steve Webb: Yes. For all the reasons I have been roughly sums it up. In the end, disability and carers’ giving, we regard CPI as a more stable and appropriate benefits last year were increased by 1.5%, but on the measure for uprating pensions and benefits. We see no proviso that the pre-election—sorry, that word slipped reason to change it in the future. The arguments that I out again—increase in 2010 would be clawed back in am advancing, it seems to me, will stand the test of time. 2011. In other words, that would have happened this There is an issue with the treatment of housing costs. year in this order. [Interruption.] The Secretary of One of the reasons why CPI is more appropriate than State says that we had to decide whether to pick up the RPI for pensioners is that only 7% of pensioners have a ticking time bomb of that 1.5% clawback as well. mortgage. Mortgage interest fluctuations dominate the Members will be pleased to know that the 2011 changes in RPI, sometimes swooping it up and sometimes uprating order before the House today contains no such swooping it down. The year in which RPI went negative, sleight of hand. It is based on the straightforward it happened because mortgage rates slumped. Not only proposition that, aside from increases in the basic pension was that of no benefit to the vast majority of pensioners; and pension credit that have already been explained, the it was a penalty to the vast majority of pensioners other mainstream social security benefits and statutory because their savings rate fell. Just at the point when payments will increase by 3.1%, in line with the annual pensioners were suffering through low interest rates, growth in RPI. There will be no attempt to recoup the RPI came along—to humanise it once again—and kicked value of the 1.5% fudge that we inherited from the them in the teeth and said, “Oh, inflation is falling so previous Government. you don’t need a benefit rise.” I do not see how that can Finally, I will touch on occupational pensions. Such be right. pensions are not directly the subject of the orders. The changes that relate to the revaluation and indexation of Kate Green: I am interested in the Minister’s argument most occupational pensions were the subject of the for making CPI permanent. Will he comment on Lord revaluation order that was tabled before Christmas. Freud’s response to the Select Committee on Work and However, because of the close link in all pensions Pensions on the indexation of housing benefit, in which matters—everything is connected to everything else—I he suggested that it would be for this Parliament only? ought to say a word about this matter. CPI is being used for all social security benefits and additional state pensions, Steve Webb: To be clear, my noble Friend was talking and through statutory linkage, CPI applies to public about the indexation of the housing benefit limit of the sector pensions. We had to decide what to do for private 30th percentile to CPI. We have said specifically that sector pensions. I stress that the role of Government is that will be looked at after two years, so that is a quite to set the floor for increases to private sector pensions separate point. The fundamental point I am making is and we had to make a judgment on that. We took the that the more one looks at the argument for using CPI view that the Secretary of State could not decide that for pensioners, the more powerful it gets. inflation was CPI for things that we pay out, but RPI There is an issue about the role of owner-occupier for things that other people pay out. As far as we are housing costs, as CPI includes rents and certain housing concerned, inflation is inflation and we have to be costs. The CPI advisory committee has said that the consistent. CPI is therefore the right floor for occupational ONS should consider whether owner-occupier housing pensions. However, I stress the word “floor”. Schemes costs should be included. We are entirely open to that are entirely at liberty to make more generous increases proposition and do not rule it out. It is interesting that if they wish. This statutory requirement increases only the CPI advisory committee has already ruled out doing in respect of service after 1997, whereas some schemes so by lumping in mortgage interest payments in the index service before that. same way as in RPI. It accepts that putting that into CPI in the way it is put into RPI would not be a good Dame Anne Begg: Will the Minister quantify the way of doing it. We will obviously consider what the number of private occupational pensions that will not committee comes up with. adopt the floor? When the initial announcement was 1179 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1180

[Dame Anne Begg] two things. We are changing, first, the indexation of the basic state pension that they will receive, and secondly, made, the impression was that all private occupational the indexation of SERPS and therefore public sector pensions would move to CPI rather than use RPI. I pensions. Overall, most pensioners, and particularly understand a number of them have RPI in their schemes those on lower incomes, will benefit net from the two and therefore will not move to the new index. Can the changes taken together. In other words, although earnings Minister say anything about the volume of such are depressed at the moment, in the long term the occupational pensions? earnings link is a substantial boost. The CPI change on average means about 0.8% or 0.9% less over the long Steve Webb: When we produced the initial impact run, and the earnings link means close to 2% extra, so assessment on the changes, we divided schemes into people with very large private or public sector pensions four groups according to whether they revalued by RPI will lose net, but people with smaller pensions—the or CPI and whether they indexed by RPI or CPI. We people who are most worried about the changes—will found that a good deal of revaluation was done in terms probably gain net. I am grateful to the hon. Member for of the revaluation order and hence would go to CPI, Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) for raising that point. but that a lot of the indexation was in terms of RPI. We have gone out into the field and talked to those Albert Owen: Can the Minister say how many people administrating schemes, and we are revising our estimates he is talking about? No one has written to me to say of the proportion that will respond to this change. that they will benefit from the change, but considerable The hon. Lady brings me on to the point that I numbers of people have said that they will lose. I realise wanted to make: some schemes have RPI hard-wired—for that that is the nature of the beast, but has the Minister want of a better phrase—into them. We faced the done any impact assessment? difficult decision of whether to override that and put CPI in or whether to say, “Rules is rules, scheme promises Steve Webb: People often miss one important point. are scheme promises,” and keep it how it was. We The numbers on pensions in payment are in a sense announced at the start of December that we felt that straightforward, because we know the level of the state people’s confidence in pensions is important, and therefore pension and the average pension in payment. To give that we would not override scheme rules. If someone the hon. Gentleman a flavour, the average occupational has joined a private sector occupational scheme that pension in payment is £70 a week, and the basic state has RPI in the scheme rules, we will not override it. pension is of the order of £100 a week. If we give an Obviously, each scheme will make its own decision on extra 2% on the £100 and take 0.8% off the £70, it is how to respond if they have the flexibility to do so, but clear that people in that typical situation will be better many schemes do not have that, and therefore will not off. Those are long-term changes, so there will be a big make the change. We will publish updated estimates of cumulative effect for someone who is 25. Of course, the proportions. they do not see the boost to the state pension—they do not see that, in 40 years’ time, 40 years’ worth of Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): I apologise earnings link will be embodied in their state pension. It to the Minister and to you, Madam Deputy Speaker, is very hard to project that, which is why those people for coming in late to the Chamber. do not see it. Overall, I am confident that large numbers Will that also apply to the public sector schemes, of pensioners will be net beneficiaries of the change. because I have had a number of letters about those? Will the Minister clarify that matter for me? Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): I Steve Webb: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for am grateful to the Minister for clarifying the situation that point, because there is a difference between public on SERPS. Will he confirm that the previous Government and private schemes. The latter very often have the did not uprate SERPS in 2010? words “retail prices index” or “in line with statutory Steve Webb: My hon. Friend is quite right. One of my provisions” in their rules. The rules of public sector first tasks as a Minister was quite strange. I had to write pensions did not have the words “retail prices index” in ministerial letters to say why we the Government—meaning them; statutorily, they simply link to whatever the my predecessors—had frozen people’s SERPS pensions, Government of the day do with state earnings-related which was precisely because the RPI was negative, yet pension schemes. Whatever amount or percentage SERPS inflation was not. went up by has always been the legal entitlement for members of public sector schemes, and we have not Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): When changed that or the law on it. Obviously, we are defining the Chancellor announced the change in his emergency inflation differently, but the legal entitlement of members Budget last June, he said that it would save more of public sector schemes was always whatever happened than £6 billion a year by the end of this Parliament. If to SERPS, and we have not changed that. that is true, it must surely mean that individuals will be Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): The Minister is worse off. giving the House a very thorough outline of his plans, but does he acknowledge that the people he just Steve Webb: Just to be clear, my right hon. Friend the mentioned—many thousands of them, and those on Chancellor was talking about the CPI indexation of all deferred pensions—will lose out considerably because social security benefits, not just pensions. Clearly, compared of the change brought about by the order? with previous plans, benefits for people of working age will generally increase by less over the Parliament, which Steve Webb: It is important for the people who have will lead to significant savings. I should mention therefore contacted the hon. Member for Coventry South in passing that any political party that went into the (Mr Cunningham) to remember that we are changing election promising to reverse that would also have to 1181 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1182 indicate where many billions of pounds would come The Minister set out in some detail and at some from over the course of a Parliament. However, specifically length why it is right to use CPI rather than RPI, but the for pensioners, the earnings link in the long-term is order uses RPI and not CPI. If he is so persuaded by his much more generous than the reduction from the CPI arguments on why CPI is the right measure to use, why change. has he used RPI in the order? The argument that he has put to the House is holed below the water line by the Stephen Timms: The Minister says that the order fact that he clearly does not believe it, because on this enshrines the earnings link. Is there a reference in the occasion, he has used RPI. text to earnings uprating? I could not find it, but if there My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South is one, where is it? (Dame Anne Begg), the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee, rightly asked whether the measure is to do Steve Webb: No. This is the first set of upratings to with reducing the deficit. Of course, both the Government which we have applied the triple lock. Indeed, we have and the Opposition agree that we need to cut the budget gone further, and said that because RPI was built into deficit, even if we take very different views on the speed the spending plans, we did not want to go lower than at which that ought to be done, but we should be clear that, so there is an RPI increase of 4.6% this April. from the outset that the orders, despite what the When we reintroduced the earnings link last summer, Government will tell us fundamentally about deficit we did not know what the earnings figures would be, reduction, are part of a wider quest. Changing permanently but had earnings been higher than any of those figures, from RPI to CPI, other than in this year, and keeping we would have used it. things that way even after the deficit is long gone, is I ought to move on, because many hon. Members plainly not a deficit reduction measure—it is ideologically want to contribute to the debate. To conclude on driven, and the Opposition do not support it. occupational pensions, we have not overridden scheme As my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South rules. As the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee hinted in her intervention, there would be a case for a pointed out, many people will still get RPI, if that is time-limited change ensuring that benefits do not fall what the scheme rules say, but those that are free to link behind earnings in the next few years. That might well to CPI may do so. We will report shortly on our be a fairer alternative to deep cuts in departmental research on the balance between different schemes. expenditure. Were that on the table, it would be an The approach adopted in the uprating order seeks to argument that we would be willing to discuss, and we strike a fair balance between the interests of benefit would work with the Government to consider it. However, recipients and pensioners, and the burden placed on the that is not the proposal. As the Minister rightly made taxpayers of the UK, who often end up footing the bill. clear, the Government want a permanent change, with Despite the fact that the nation’s finances remain under entitlement and pensions continuing to be reduced every severe pressure, this Government will spend an extra year relative to RPI, saving money for the Government £4.3 billion in 2011-12 to ensure that people are protected even long after the deficit has been eliminated. We will against cost-of-living increases. be making our position on that very clear as we go We have restored the link between earnings and the through these debates, and as we seek to amend the basic pension and confirmed that most people on pension Pensions Bill, when the same matter is raised. credit will benefit from the cash increase enjoyed by those on the state pension. The move to CPI for the Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con): If uprating of the majority of other pensions and benefits the right hon. Gentleman looks at the local authority will result in an uplift of 3.1% from April, and sets the pension schemes here in London, he will see that there future of uprating on a more appropriate, consistent is only 75% or 80% viability on future liabilities. A lot of and stable basis that is fair to individuals and fair to the the contribution rates and the inflation from RPI to taxpayer. Through this package of uprating, I have CPI are about balancing the books for future pensioners, outlined our firm commitment to ensure that no one is not deficit reduction. left behind, and I commend the order to the House. Stephen Timms: I was familiar with the call often 2.6 pm made when I was in the Minister’s office to release Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): It is a happy occupational funds from the constraints under which coincidence that we are debating the order on the same they had long operated, and RPI uprating was one of day as the publication of the Welfare Reform Bill, and I them. However, the question that has to be asked is am pleased to see the Secretary of State in the Chamber. whether it is right to change the rules at this stage, I welcome the opportunity to make some observations effectively to undermine the accrued rights that people on the Bill—of course, only in so far as they impinge on have always believed they would benefit from in retirement, matters in the order. and to shift the goalposts. I will come to that very point However, I want first to respond to some of the in a moment. However, I suggest to the hon. Gentleman Minister’s remarks. The truth is that the two orders that this change raises a very serious question about signal the start of an ideological move from the use of fairness. RPI to CPI as the measure of inflation for uprating Of course, we need to get the economy back on track, benefits, including pensions. The Minister told us that but that will take some time. The coalition is doing it this is the first outing for the much-vaunted triple lock, too fast. Why do they want pensioners, the armed forces but actually, in their first effort, the Government have and those on the lowest incomes and least able to bear had to override the triple lock. Had they not done so, the burden to continue to lose out even long after the they would have been rightly criticised for a very low deficit has gone? On average, RPI is between 0.5% and increase to the basic state pension. 0.75% higher than CPI, as the Minister pointed out, so 1183 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1184

[Stephen Timms] somebody retires. Is that fair? As I am sure that we will hear in this debate, a lot of people feel that it is deeply in any given year, benefits linked to CPI will give people unfair—and we can all understand why they take that a lower income by that amount. The CPI for the year to view. September 2010 is 3.1%, and the RPI figure is 4.6%. At Lord Hutton’s report on public sector occupational 1.5%, that is a very big percentage point difference. The pensions pointed out: Minister has decided, perhaps because of the scale of “This change in the indexation measure”— that difference, to use RPI and overrule his triple lock in its first year. However, if the Government intend, as from RPI to CPI— they clearly do, to make CPI indexation permanent and “may have reduced the value of benefits to scheme members by apply that across the pension system, experts estimate around 15 per cent on average. When this change is combined that it could cost pensioners 15% of the income that with other reforms to date across the major schemes the value to current members of reformed schemes with CPI indexation is, on they expect in retirement. average, around 25 per cent less than the pre-reform schemes with RPI indexation.” Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): We are weeks away from the point when the Opposition, had they won the Even the Minister’s own Department, in numbers slipped election, would have commenced their own deficit reduction out at the end of last week, estimated a fall of £83 billion plan. Given the enormous sum that the welfare bill in the value of occupational pensions over the next represents within the public finances, it is inconceivable 15 years as a result. For the 2 million members of defined that the right hon. Gentleman could intend to go through benefit schemes, that is broadly the same as a pay cut, this debate without addressing some serious long-term on average, of between £2,250 and £2,500 a year. issues regarding his own policy on deficit reduction. The figure of £83 billion has gone up by more than 8% since the Department last calculated it in December. Stephen Timms: I am grateful to the hon. Lady, We ought to know why the Department got their figures because that is exactly the point that I have been making. so wrong last time round. My worry is that the Department If this was about deficit reduction, there would be a does not really know what the impact of this ill-thought- worthwhile point to debate. However, the Government through measure will be in reality. I ask the Minister, are saying that they want this change to be permanent therefore, whether he can assure us that this—in itself and lower uprating to be a feature of the pensions and alarming—estimate of the scale of the loss to defined benefit system not just while we are reducing the deficit—I benefit pension scheme members will not be revised any agree with her that there would be an argument for further. doing it during that period—but long after and into the indefinite future. Rehman Chishti: Am I right in thinking that the shadow Minister was a Treasury Minister in the previous Jane Ellison: In part, Government Members are talking Government? If so, will he clarify the fact that when the about addressing the much longer term problems that coalition Government came into office last May, we this country faces, of structural deficits building up and inherited the worst financial deficit of the G20 and the having to be addressed. The right hon. Gentleman has worst structural deficit of the G7 countries, and that only to look around the world, at the problems in that is why we have to make some tough decisions? California and all sorts of places where enormous long-term structural problems have built up, particularly in relation Stephen Timms: I was indeed a Treasury Minister—on to pensions. It is inconceivable that he cannot take a four separate occasions. We managed the global economic long-term view on this issue. crisis with great skill, to the extent that the increase in unemployment, which was widely anticipated before Stephen Timms: The hon. Lady makes an interesting the crisis hit, did not happen. Under the previous argument. I have to say, however, that before the election Government there was about half the unemployment I did not hear from her and her hon. Friends the and half the home repossessions that we experienced in argument that the structural deficit required a reduction the recession of the early 1990s. I was indeed a Minister in the incomes of the least well-off people in the land. at the Treasury when those successes were being achieved. That is the implication of what she is putting to the House. The real key to reducing the deficit is to secure Rehman Chishti: The shadow Minister talks about new growth, new investment and new jobs in the economy. unemployment and the previous Government’s actions. As we saw yesterday in the new unemployment figures, Is that why my constituency of Gillingham had however, that is what the Government’s policies are 30% unemployment for 18 to 24-year-olds in 2006? The signally failing to produce. figure for youth unemployment remained at 30% in 2007 and 2009, and was the same in 2010 before we Mike Freer: The problem is that for public sector came into government. Will the right hon. Gentleman pensions, the fund can meet only 75% or 80% of future apologise to my constituents for that record? liabilities. If we do not reduce the indexation to reduce that drain on future liabilities, we will have to Stephen Timms: I agree with the hon. Gentleman increase contribution rates. Which would the right hon. about the damaging impact of youth unemployment, Gentleman do? and I hope that he shares my deep regret that it has increased again. It is now the highest that it has been Stephen Timms: My point is that people who have since comparable figures began to be compiled nearly been contributing to those schemes throughout their 20 years ago. The highest figure ever recorded was working lives have done so on the basis of a promise, published in the statistics yesterday. I certainly take the but the Government are now saying that that promise view that the Government need to do more to reduce should be torn up, perhaps just a few months before that figure. 1185 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1186

The estimate of a hit of £83 billion on defined We welcome the 4.6% increase in the basic state pension schemes makes it clear that long after the pension this year, for which the order provides, in line deficit is gone, the Government will be keeping pensioners with RPI for next year, not the triple lock or the lower out of pocket. I fear that the order is the start of a move CPI. But this is something of a smokescreen to cover up that will mean that millions of pensioners and other the true nature of the Government’s intentions, which benefit claimants experience a fall in the value of their we have been able to smoke out a little in this debate. benefits every year, relative to RPI. If the Government Why does the Minister think that CPI would be a had simply applied the much-vaunted triple lock this better measure of inflation for pensioners than RPI? I year, the basic state pension would be uprated next year am yet to be convinced of that. For pensioners and far below the RPI level that the previous system would low-income families, a strong argument can be made have delivered. That is the problem with the Government’s that average inflation is more than either RPI or CPI, proposition. because of fuel and food. That point was certainly That is not the only Government measure to hit made in the representations that many of us will have pensioners. The Minister proudly and fairly read out a received in recent weeks. In opening the debate, the list of excellent things that the previous Government Minister mentioned the views of the Royal Statistical did for pensioners, which the present Government will Society. In its letter to my hon. Friend the Member for not abolish. I am glad that they will not. However, they Leeds West, it said: have increased VAT, which means that pensioner couples “while the consumer price index (CPI) is acceptable for macroeconomic will be £275 a year worse off, and single pensioners purposes and for international comparisons within the EU we do £125 a year worse off. not believe its coverage is generally appropriate for inflation compensation purposes”. The Pensions Bill means that some women approaching retirement will have their state pension delayed by up to That looks like a strong criticism by the society. two years, with very little time to prepare. That will Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): When answering mean a loss of up to £10,000 in basic state pension, and the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for up to £15,000 for those who would have qualified for Poole (Mr Syms), you said you would— pension credit. My hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Order. Reeves) asked the Minister previously about an individual’s All hon. Members are doing this, not just the hon. accrued rights, and I referred to that in response to an Gentleman. When addressing the shadow Minister, if earlier intervention. Let me press the Minister again on they refer to him as “the right hon. Gentleman”, we will the same subject. Why has he made such an abrupt not have the problem of whether the Chair is planning U-turn? Before the election, he said: the election manifestos of all the political parties for the “We are very clear that all accrued rights should be honoured: next election. a pension promise made should be a pension promise kept. Therefore we would not make any changes to pension rights that Guy Opperman: The right hon. Gentleman mentioned have already been built up. I have confirmed that I regard accrued “a period of time”. How long would that be? index-linked rights as protected.” I am sure that the Minister would agree that all those Stephen Timms: If that were the proposition, we who contracted out—all those in the local government would be happy to debate it and consider it, and perhaps scheme that was mentioned a few minutes ago—did so work with the Government on it. Sadly, that proposition on the basis that RPI would be used for uprating. On has not been made. The proposition before the House is the basis of what the Minister said before the election, that the change should be made for ever, and that is those rights should also be protected. They are not; what I object to. It is not just me: the Civil Service they are being explicitly downgraded in the Government’s Pensioners Alliance— proposals. The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain Mr Robert Syms (Poole) (Con): I am listening carefully Duncan Smith): I had not planned to intervene, but I to the right hon. Gentleman. Can we be clear about the wanted to tease out the right hon. Gentleman’s meaning. Labour party’s position? Do you oppose the CPI? Do He is being a little disingenuous, so I invite him to be a you oppose it just for this year—or are you in favour little clearer. He knows that commitments are made for this year and next year, but want to go back to the RPI a Parliament, at most, and that if there were to be a in a future year? change of power, the next Government could do whatever they want. He talks about “for ever”, but decisions can be made at the next election. Can we tempt him to say Stephen Timms: There is a persuasive case for making on behalf of his party that during the lifetime of this a change to CPI uprating for a period of time while we Parliament—or perhaps for one year or two years—it are tackling the deficit. However, I do not agree that supports the change to CPI? Or is he saying that his that should be a permanent change. That aspect of the party utterly detests the change and will not support it? Government’s proposal is very damaging. Stephen Timms: The Secretary of State is putting a Jane Ellison: Does that mean that in the Labour different gloss on this from the one that the Pensions manifesto for the next general election, the Labour Minister put on it. I asked the Minister directly whether party will commit itself to reverting to RPI? this change was intended to be permanent, and he confirmed that. The Secretary of State suggests that it Stephen Timms: The whole country eagerly awaits the would be only for this Parliament—[Interruption.] Well, next Labour party manifesto, but I must urge the hon. I am anxious to establish the Government’s position. Lady to be patient on that front. We have had two contradictory positions set out now— 1187 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1188

Mr Duncan Smith: The right hon. Gentleman may issues. There is the adequacy of forces pensions and have failed to understand my point. The Opposition are there is the proper measurement of inflation, but to not in government, by definition, and they have to conflate the two seems confusing. decide what they will do in this Parliament. What is his position in this Parliament? We have said that the Stephen Timms: In opening the debate the Minister change is permanent. Do they support that for this accepted that in 15 years out of 20, CPI uprating is less Parliament or not? Do they support it for a year, two than RPI uprating. My point is that those serving in years, three years or four years? What is their position Afghanistan have been contributing to their pensions on CPI? All we need to know is whether they support it on the understanding that their pensions, when in payment, for this Parliament. would be uprated in line with RPI. Now the Government are saying, “No, they won’t; they’ll be uprated by a Stephen Timms: Well, the Secretary of State has smaller amount,”and that is a very worrying development. shifted back a little way towards the Minister by suggesting In view of the sympathy that the Minister has expressed that the Government view the change as permanent. As for people in that position, the Government must give for the view of my party, I simply refer the Secretary of further thought to this matter—why war widows, who State to what the leader of my party has said, which is have had the person most special to them taken away, that the suggestion that the change should be made for deserve to have the support that they would otherwise a period—perhaps up to three years—would be something have been able to depend on cut as well. that we could consider. If that proposition were on the table, we would be happy to consider it. But sadly it is not. As we have heard from the Minister—and as I John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): May think the Secretary of State has now reluctantly I, through my right hon. Friend, give the Minister an confirmed—the Government’s intention is that this opportunity to respond to a question? Is it not clear arrangement should be permanent. That is what I strongly that as we identify anomalies like this—and they are object to. bound to arise—it is important for the Government to introduce corrective measures fairly quickly? I was just about to refer to what the Civil Service Pensioners Alliance said. It Stephen Timms: Yes, there are some serious problems “firmly” here, and I hope we will hear responses to them. I pay rejects tribute to my hon. Friend for the work that he has done “the assertion that the CPI is a ‘better’ measure of inflation for on this subject, and I hope that the Government will pensioners.” think again. It urges the Government The Welfare Reform Bill, which was published this “to take account of the advice of their own statisticians before morning, touches on a number of the points that the embarking upon a change which will adversely affect the incomes of pensioners for the rest of their lives and not just for the term of Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order also touches the current financial crisis.” on. One of the Government’s original proposals, which Age UK has made a similar point. Opposition Members strongly opposed, was to cut housing benefit by 10% for people in receipt of jobseeker’s All the main public service schemes are contracted allowance for one year. We were all absolutely delighted out of the additional state pension. Of course, in the this morning to hear the Secretary of State say that the current climate we need restraint over public sector pay Government have reconsidered their position and will and pensions, but one group that the proposed permanent not implement that draconian cut. We understand from change will hit particularly hard is those who serve in newspaper reports that the change was brought about the armed forces and their dependants, who rely on as a result of pressure from the leader of the Pensions their pensions at an earlier age than almost anyone else. Minister’s party. The Minister himself may well have A permanent switch would, as I understand it, mean had a hand in bringing about that change. If so, I—and that somebody who had perhaps lost both legs in a many of us—would want to join in congratulating him bomb blast in Afghanistan could miss out on half a on his success against the views of the members of the million pounds in benefit and benefit-related payments other coalition party, particularly, perhaps, the views of over the rest of their life. War widows, too, will lose out those serving in the Treasury. severely.For instance, if this change were made permanent, the 34-year-old wife of a staff sergeant killed in Afghanistan As the Minister is on a bit of roll, may I suggest that would be almost three quarters of a million pounds he go further in changing the Government’s proposals? worse off over her lifetime. Under the existing system, most out-of-work benefits are subject to savings limits—currently £16,000, but the If Ministers are going to pursue this policy, they need Government intend to extend that threshold to in-work to explain why those serving in Afghanistan—already benefits as part of the universal credit, and I notice that in some cases, as we have heard in the last few days, that threshold is not uprated in the order before us. facing redundancy of which they were informed by Under the proposed limit, in future anyone in work who e-mail—should see their pensions reduced for the rest would be entitled to tax credits but has savings of more of their lives compared with the expectations that they than £6,000 will have their payment reduced. Those have had until now, and why— who have savings of more than £16,000 will lose their Steve Webb: The right hon. Gentleman has raised a entitlement to tax credits altogether. serious point. I think both sides of the House would be According to calculations by the Social Market united in our respect and admiration for our forces and Foundation, 400,000 families with children, who are our forces veterans, but surely the issue is that we pay now in receipt of tax credits, would be punished for decent forces pensions, not that we choose to measure having £16,000 in the bank by losing all their tax credits. inflation in a particular way. Those are two quite separate For example, anyone saving up for a deposit to buy a 1189 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1190 home would suddenly find that they had lost all their uprating and to make the change permanent, not just tax credits as a punishment for having £16,000 in the while the deficit is being reduced but in perpetuity, is bank. Such families would have been doing the right what we object to, and we will be working hard in the thing, working and saving their money, perhaps to put months ahead to try to persuade the Government that down a deposit on a house. For many such families, their policy on that is wrong. putting down a deposit will be made not only difficult but impossible. The Opposition cannot possibly support 2.40 pm the proposed change, and I cannot imagine that many Government Members would want to see such an Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD): Like the right extraordinary assault on family savings either. I hope hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms), I refer to that we shall see another initiative by Liberal Democrat the Welfare Reform Bill, although we are debating the Ministers—we saw the benefits of such an initiative this uprating orders. With the introduction of the universal morning—to persuade the Government to abandon credit when the Bill becomes law, the complicated changes that policy as well. that we are processing in these orders will become a thing of the past, which I think we welcome on both I hope the Government will also scrap the proposal sides of the House. It will be much simpler for people to to remove eligibility for the mobility component of understand their entitlement to benefits, and there will disability living allowance for those in residential care. be a much better deal for many people who are in The order does uprate disability living allowance, and receipt of working-age benefits. my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow East (Margaret Curran), who is on the Front Bench today, has been Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): The hon. Lady making powerful arguments to the Government about says that we will not debate uprating in the future, but the iniquity of removing that benefit from people simply because the Government have reneged on the universal because they are in residential care. I hope the Government pension, we shall be debating uprating for pensions will think again about that, and I am delighted that the every year. Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller), who is Jenny Willott: I shall clarify my remarks in case responsible for that part of the policy, is on the Government anyone misunderstood me. I said that we will not be Front Bench today. debating complicated uprating changes every year. Clearly, The Government are signalling today that they intend there will still be a debate every year, I assume, on the a permanent shift from RPI to CPI as the inflation uprating of benefits; I should hate to think they will be measure for uprating benefits and pensions. The Opposition frozen in future. I shall talk about pensions later in my do not support that. It is not right to continue to reduce remarks. the incomes of pensioners, widows and those on low incomes long after the deficit has gone. [Interruption.] According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, the From a sedentary position, the Minister says that we universal credit will mean that 2.5 million families will will not vote against the order, but that is because it be better off. They will get more money, which will in uprates the basic state pension next year by RPI. Therefore, time help to reduce the total benefit bill by making it it does not do what the Government have told us they more worthwhile for people to get work and remain in want to do in perpetuity. The order overrides the policy work and off benefits. That should generate support on that he set out today, and no Labour Member would both sides of the House, as it is something we all want object to uprating the basic state pension by RPI, as families to do. that was always the practice under the previous As well as an improvement in prospects for those on Government—and quite right, too. As the Minister working-age benefits, as the Minister said, this morning rightly pointed out, pension credit, which has done an the Government introduced changes that will make a enormous amount to reduce pensioner poverty in the significant difference to pensioner incomes. The level of UK since its introduction, will also be uprated accordingly, pensioner poverty in the UK is a complete disgrace in a and we support that as well. civilised country. During the shadow Minister’s remarks, it slightly got me that he seemed to criticise the Government Jane Ellison: As the right hon. Gentleman has opened for not sticking to the CPI increase for pensions and up the debate about other welfare payments, I shall have going for a larger increase in pensions this year. In 2000, one more go at my question before he concludes his the previous Government were happy to see an increase remarks. Given the scale of the welfare bill and the fact of only 75p in the state pension, which most of us found that we are weeks away from when the Opposition’s stingy, measly and completely unforgiveable. At least, deficit reduction plan would have commenced, will he this Government are tackling pensioner poverty and are please comment on how he would reduce that bill if he willing to do something serious about it. were running affairs? Labour’s efforts to lift older members of society out of poverty resulted in a massively complicated, overly Stephen Timms: On a number of occasions during bureaucratic system based on means-tested benefits the debate I have made the point that there is a case for that has left 2 million pensioners still living below the temporary lower uprating to contribute to reducing the poverty line. Clearly there is something wrong with the deficit. My objection is to the permanent character of current system, so I am delighted that real progress is what is being proposed, and I hope the House will not being made to safeguard the value of the basic state support it. pension. Current pensioners will now be protected by The order does not uprate the basic state pension by the triple lock, which is welcome. I am delighted that a CPI or by the triple lock; it overrides that, and increases Liberal Democrat manifesto commitment is being the payment by RPI. I do not expect Labour Members implemented by the Liberal Democrats in government. to object to that, but the move to commit to CPI What we promised we have delivered, and the state 1191 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1192

[Jenny Willott] position, he seemed to disagree with similar comments by the shadow Minister. I do not have a copy of the pension will increase by earnings, 2.5% or CPI, whichever whole quote in front of me, but I am sure that he will be is greatest. People over the age of retirement will have able to fill the House in on that and respond to her the protection they deserve. As the Minister said, the question later. amount can be quite significant. We are talking about £15,000 over a person’s lifetime, which will make a Kate Green: Does the hon. Lady accept that CPI is significant difference for a large number of pensioners not a good measure for most working-age households and will, I hope, have an impact on pensioner poverty. precisely because of its exclusion of housing costs? I am glad to see that change. However, I believe that we are still building up problems for future generations Jenny Willott: As I understand the way in which that of pensioners. Current pensioners’ circumstances will relates to working-age households, people who are on improve significantly, but the ticking pension’s time benefits are much more likely to be living in social bomb was not tackled by the Labour Government or by housing and so will not face large fluctuations in mortgage previous Governments. I would like the current Government costs. For those of working-age who are on benefits and to take the bull by the horns and ensure that we do not do have mortgage costs, there is a lot of assistance from end up with a problem in decades to come. Far too the state. They are not bearing the full brunt of mortgage many people are not saving for retirement. Auto-enrolment interest fluctuations because a lot of that is borne by the will help in that regard, but people need to know that it state. Therefore, I believe that CPI relates appropriately will pay to save. We must reduce the amount of means- to that group, too. testing to ensure that people know that, if they save while they are working, it will benefit them in retirement. The financial implications, over this Parliament and beyond, for the Government of the difference between We have an uncertain jobs market. There are no more CPI and RPI have been discussed a lot today. We are in jobs for life. Occupational pension schemes are closing very difficult financial circumstances and the Government at a terrifying rate. Many occupational schemes are have had to make some extremely difficult financial defined-contribution, rather than defined-benefit, and decisions. The Minister has laid out why the Government far less generous. Even with the triple lock, problems believe that CPI is the right measure to use, but the will increase. I would be grateful if the Minister told us financial benefits of that for the Government coffers what the Government plan to do in the long term to are significant. By introducing the triple lock, the tackle the time bomb. The triple lock will make a Government are protecting the most vulnerable pensioners. significant difference, but we need to look at the whole The people potentially most penalised are being protected, pension system to ensure that we reform it in decades to while the amount of money saved is quite significant come so that it is more appropriate to the needs of and will help the economy to grow in future. society. The shadow Minister, the right hon. Member for Clearly, a big issue is the move from RPI to CPI. I East Ham (Stephen Timms), eventually made it clear understand why people are concerned about that, but I that the Opposition will not vote against the orders and say to pensioners who are worried about the impact on will support the changes and the uprating, which seems their basic state pensions that they will be protected by to suggest that they understand the logic and agree with the triple lock. As the Minister made clear, the majority the overall decision. Whether it be for the moment, for of people on public sector pensions will be protected three years or until the next Parliament, I am not from a potential reduction in their long-term benefits entirely sure, but it is good to see it when occasionally by the triple lock on the state pension, so they will end agreement breaks out across the House. It is also good up better off in the long term. The impact on people and quite a novelty to see Labour Members finally will not be as great as many Opposition Members have supporting measures that will save the Treasury some said it will be. money. If they plan to return to RPI in the future, I I can see that benefits come with the change to CPI. look forward to seeing how they plan to find the billions It is more stable. It means that we will not face issues of pounds that will be necessary to implement it. such as the one that arose last year when benefits were I congratulate the Government on introducing the frozen, which caused significant hardship for many triple lock for pensioners, which is a significant step millions of people. CPI is also a more appropriate forward. It is also pleasing for me as a Liberal Democrat system as 70% of pensioners own their homes outright. to see a manifesto commitment implemented. As the Minister said, there is a negative impact for those pensioners as the rate of mortgage interest is taken into account under RPI. They do not benefit in any way Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): The hon. Lady is generous. from the massive fluctuations that that can generate in She has mentioned the triple lock many times. Is she at their pension increase. all concerned about the ratcheting effect of implementing it, which has been a consideration in the past? Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): One of the big concerns is that the Royal Statistical Society Jenny Willott: I would have thought that being too has said that the CPI is not a good measure for pension generous to pensioners was a good thing. inflation. The differential impact of that measure is causing many Opposition Members concern. Hywel Williams: I am unconcerned about it being too generous. When the ratcheting effect was considered in Jenny Willott: I thank the hon. Lady for her comment. the ’80s, when Barbara Castle presented her proposals The issue is likely to be taken up by the Minister in his for pensioners, I was supportive of her, but concern was summing-up because, from his comments from a sedentary expressed in the House at the time. 1193 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1194

Jenny Willott: Like the hon. Gentleman, I was not a Given that the Welfare Reform Bill was launched Member of Parliament at the time, but I would have yesterday with proposals to update significantly the expressed my disagreement with those views. Pensioners system of working-age benefits, will the Minister tell us are among those in society with the lowest incomes, so what the Government will do to update the old-fashioned they are most in need of protection. Anything that and outdated system of benefits that go to those of prevents them from falling even further behind, as they pension age? We seem at present to be able to think have over the past few decades, is a good thing. Since imaginatively about changes to benefits and state support, the link to earnings was taken away under the previous so I hope the Minister will tell us a bit more about what Conservative Government, pensioners’ incomes have vision the Government might have for older members fallen significantly behind. Pensioner poverty is still at a of our society. disgraceful rate. I am glad to see measures being put in place today that will start to tackle that problem and 2.56 pm stop pensioners falling further behind the rest of society. Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): It is nice Sheila Gilmore: Does the hon. Lady not accept that to see such a large crowd of Members in the Chamber pensioner poverty was substantially tackled by the Labour for this debate. I have attended benefits uprating debates Government, as pensioners were among 1 million people for a number of years, and there are usually three lifted out of poverty by their policies? people, possibly including one who really likes statistics, sitting somewhere on the Back Benches. As the Minister has Jenny Willott: I absolutely accept that the previous suggested, the greater attendance this afternoon is probably Labour Government tried to tackle pensioner poverty a result of the fact that the entire basic indexation of the by introducing pension credit, guarantee credit and so benefit system is about to change from RPI to CPI. forth. However, the system they introduced has had a Benefits uprating orders are all or nothing orders; we number of unintended consequences. It was so complicated cannot pick and choose what we want to be in them. that millions, or at least hundreds of thousands, of There are bits that Labour Members are not particularly pensioners did not apply for the benefits to which they happy about, but we are happy with other bits, and if are entitled. The system is so degrading and complicated these orders do not get passed today no uprating will that they do not receive the benefits due to them. These take place, which is the dilemma facing those of us who are people living below the poverty line who are among have concerns, particularly about the move from RPI to the most vulnerable in our society. CPI for public sector pensions. I think I can speak on Another unintended consequence of the system is behalf of my party colleagues in saying that we will not that when people are working, they do not know whether vote against the motion, but neither will we necessarily they will end up better off when they retire. The system vote for it. If the order does not pass, nobody gets acts as a disincentive for people on low incomes to save. anything, and we would not want that to happen. With auto-enrolment into pension schemes, I would like The Minister is a very clever man, and I found his to see the means-testing taken out of the system so that analysis fascinating. He gave a very clear and logical people know that every penny they save when they are explanation of why CPI should be used as the inflation working and earning low incomes will benefit them in measure for indexation; everything fell into place, as we retirement. That is preferable to ending up being trapped, would expect from him. He said it is such a good as a number of people are, in the pocket between those measure that we are going to use it for public sector able to get means-tested benefits and those who are not. pensions, and, if we can get away with it, possibly for Although a lot was done under the Labour Government, private sector pensions and occupational pensions. the unintended consequences have, I feel, been quite Apparently, it is so good that we are going to use it for damaging as well. The Office for National Statistics everything except the basic state pension. I have no says that more than 2 million pensioners live in poverty; problem with the fact that the Government are increasing for me, that is far too many and I would like to see the the basic state pension by more than the triple lock problem tackled further. would have given, but this undermines the Minister’s logical argument as to why CPI is so good. My right Sheila Gilmore: Do I take it from the hon. Lady that hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) she would support the raising of the basic state pension picked up on this and I would like the Minister to to the level of pension credit for everyone? Does she explain his position. Why is the basic state pension accept the consequential decisions that we would have going up by RPI, or 4.6%? CPI stood at 3.1% during the to take as a society about the level of taxation appropriate period; we are talking about last year’s inflation figures here. to support such a change? I am also delighted that the Government have recognised the importance of pension credit, which was introduced Jenny Willott: As the hon. Lady might well be aware, by a Labour Government, and of keeping that increase as a Liberal Democrat I stood on a manifesto that said in line with inflation. Under the Labour Government, it we would like to introduce a citizen’s pension, which was the pension credit element, rather than the basic would result in the basic state pension being lifted to the state pension, that went up by the higher rate of indexation, level of pension credit so that everyone who was retired because the Government wanted to narrow the gap would be living on a decent pension above, or at, the between rich and poor pensioners and that was the poverty line, rather than people having to go through easiest way to make sure the poorest pensioners got the the demeaning process of applying to the Government most. Under this new uprating, however, pension credit to lift their income above the poverty line. That would is not going up by the 4.6% under RPI that the basic also remove the disincentive to save. Perhaps the Minister state pension is going up by. It is only going up by will say in his summation whether he agrees with me 3.6%, which is in line with neither CPI nor the triple that we should introduce such a citizen’s pension. lock. I am not quite sure where that figure has come 1195 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1196

[Dame Anne Begg] Dame Anne Begg: CPI is still much less. Perhaps the average is taken from rent overall, not only in the from. I am not complaining that the uprating is not private rented sector. That is where some of the differential more than it should be, but perhaps it is less than the might come from. Minister was led to believe. We can see from last year’s figures and the indexation Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): My hon. that we are looking at a CPI of 3.1% and an RPI of Friend has made an important argument about the level 4.6%. That is one third less. Many people are concerned of rent increases, particularly in the private sector in about the compounding effect of CPI over the years on London, where rent increases and demand go up by far their take-home pension. more than any rate of inflation or any other measurement. The Government’s cap on housing benefit has the perverse Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): Does the hon. effect of driving many of the poorest people out of Lady agree that even under CPI, because the coalition central London because they will not be able to meet Government are linking it with earnings, that would be the rent demands and normal costs of living within the the equivalent over a full term of an additional £15,000 global cap on benefits. to someone’s pension pot?

Dame Anne Begg: But that is assuming that the only Dame Anne Begg: My hon. Friend is right. There is a income that pensioners have is the basic state pension, triple whammy on people who live in London in high which is not the case. Most pensioners supplement the rent areas: the local housing allowance is to be capped, basic state pension with an occupational pension or, if possibly below the level of the rents; they will have they worked in the public sector, with a public sector access only to houses within the 30th percentile; and pension. That is where the Government have sometimes they will not see the inflationary increases in the indexation missed a trick. In obsessing about the triple lock and of their housing benefit to meet those conditions. They the basic state pension, they have taken their eye off the will be hit more than once with regard to the affordability ball with regard to all other pension income. of their rents. That certainly came over loud and clear when the Select Committee looked at what was happening Because other pension income will be reduced as a to local housing allowance. result of the link with CPI, many pensioners will find themselves worse off, or certainly not as well off as they The effects of the Welfare Reform Bill have been expected or as the rhetoric from the Government would mentioned. The universal credit will make it difficult to suggest. To listen to the Government, one would think project benefit uprating into the future to work out they are doing everything that pensioners ever wanted, what percentage of their incomes people are likely to whereas they have taken action only on the narrow area loose. There will be no straight line from the current of the basic state pension. benefits to the universal benefit, because they will be mixed up. It is difficult to see what will happen. The We already know that inflation is going up. VAT went compounding effect will probably be seen in pensions, up, thanks to the Chancellor. The Opposition expect particularly for those in receipt of the state pension, inflation to go up much further because we do not think and the level of pension will be less. the Chancellor has the right policies. We know from the most recent inflation figures for January this year that In reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne CPI is now up to 4%—good news, one would think, for (Stephen Lloyd)—I am sorry, Madam Deputy Speaker; pensioners—but RPI is up to 5%. It is that differential I always refer to fellow Committee members as hon. that will cause problems. Friends—I said that the assumption is that the largest We are considering not just pensions, but uprating for part of a pensioner’s income is the basic state pension, the whole benefits system. Even the Minister must but we know that for many people that is not the case. recognise that there is an enormous irony in using CPI Even if the state pension makes up a large part of their to uprate housing benefit—CPI being the one inflation pension, it is often not all of it. Many people on the measure that does not include housing costs, lower pension are dependent on SERPS, which of course notwithstanding the point that the hon. Member for will now be moving up in line with CPI, rather than RPI. Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott) made about the poorest On the basic state pension, I accept the Minister’s people being in social housing. That is not the case in figures indicating that it will rise from £97.65 to £102.15, cities such as London, and it is not the case because of an increase of around £4.50 a week. No one would say the shortage of housing. that that is wrong, because we all agree that £234 a year We know that large numbers of people are dependent is great. However, the average public sector pension of on housing benefit—or, more accurately, local housing £7,800 will be reduced by around £117 because of the allowance—and they will be hit. When the Select Committee difference between RPI and CPI. I am not very good at on Work and Pensions looked into the matter, we the arithmetic, but that means that instead of getting a thought there were some figures to show that within a rise in income of 4.6%, the people affected will get a rise very short time nobody on housing benefit would be of less than 2%. It is a rise, but it is not as much as they able to afford houses in the private rented sector that fit were expecting, and we must remember that we are into the 30th percentile. living in a time when inflation is increasing. A woman who receives the average local government Steve Webb: For the avoidance of doubt—this has pension of £2,600 will be £40 worse off than if her been said incorrectly twice in the debate—the CPI pension had been linked to RPI. If she has paid the includes rent, so it is owner-occupiers’ housing costs small stamp, she might get no extra money through the that are not included. As rent is included in CPI, it is basic state pension anyway, not even the compensatory entirely appropriate to index housing benefit by it. increase in it. She might not have made full contributions 1197 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1198 and so will get some of it, but not all. The Government’s policy and the long term, why could not the Government proposal is unfair to pensioners, and it is particularly have waited another year or even two before equalising unfair to women. the state pension age at 66? The Minister keeps bandying My right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham has about the £10 billion figure, but in terms of equity and already mentioned the particular unfairness of raising fairness it would have been much more sensible if the the state pension age to 66 by 2020. To be clear on the Government had taken a long-term view. Theirs is a Opposition’s position, we have no qualms about raising very short-term view, meaning that a large number of the state pension age to 66 in principle, but we are women—half a million—will lose out. concerned about the speed with which the Government The Government could have introduced a measure are doing so. That overrides what was already in place that people considered fair, rational and part of a for women who were born in the 1950s, who were going long-term decision to ensure that pensions are affordable, to see their pension age rise to 65 by 2020 anyway. and it is ironic that, while they have made the decision Women who began their working lives expecting to on equalisation, they have forgotten about the long-term get a state pension at 60—that happens to include sustainability of the basic state pension. They have me—will now have to wait another six years for it. On a done so because the Liberal Democrats had an election quick calculation, that will save the Government £32,000 promise—the one they seem to have kept to, when they on today’s basic state pension. It will come out of the have managed to ditch all the others—that was all to do pockets of women who are roughly my age and will stay with the triple lock. The Minister will not accept this with the Government. We will have to increase the point in the Chamber, although he might do privately, indexation an awful lot more to make up for the £32,000 but the triple lock debate has skewed the Government’s that those women will lose as a result of the increase in entire pension policy. We are not looking at the issue in the state pension age by six years. the round or over the long term, when perhaps we I appreciate that the measure whereby women born in should be. 1955 would have to wait until 2020, when they were We do not know what inflation will be in years to 65, to receive their income was already in train, but come, so in the private and public occupational pensions what about the women born between 6 October 1953 sectors in particular it is difficult to work out exactly and 5 April 1955, who had already made all their how much people will lose compared with what they financial plans but will now have to work for more than expected to receive. Lord Hutton, in his interim report, one further year before they can receive their basic state thought that on average they would lose up to 15% of pension? The Minister has said on numerous occasions their pension’s worth, but I have seen lots of other that that measure alone will save the Government figures for, and various calculations of, what a pensioner £10 billion. All that is a win-win for the Government: would have expected if their pension had been linked to the Government win, because they do not have to pay RPI as opposed to CPI. the money out, and because they have changed the This measure cannot just be about paying off the indexation. The people who lose are those who expected deficit, because we know that the big-time savings kick to receive their pensions at a certain point, and in this in well after the Government propose to have paid off case those people are women. the deficit. The Government will win, but the people I would understand the Government’s rationale if the who will lose are, unfortunately, the pensioners of this measure was part of their deficit reduction plan, but country. they have already said that they intend to get the deficit 3.14 pm off the books in four years’ time, and none of this stuff comes in until after the deficit is meant to have been Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): I reduced, so it cannot be part of a deficit reduction plan. very much welcome these initiatives by the Government, The Government should be more honest. We have as they will help to improve the quality of life of the heard that the change to CPI is going to be permanent, elderly, who have given so much to our society, and that so they should say, “We’re doing this as a long-term of the most vulnerable in society. It is absolutely right measure, because we want to save money.” That is part and proper that we help those who are most vulnerable. and parcel of what the Government are about: saving I believe that the Government are right to use one money. index for uprating additional state pensions, public and private pensions and social security benefits, and that Steve Webb: The hon. Lady is a thoughtful person the consumer prices index is a more appropriate measure who will know that there is an issue of short-term of changes in the cost of living than the retail prices deficit reduction and an issue of the long-term sustainability index. The CPI is the headline measure of inflation in of the public finances. Leaving aside the £1.3 trillion of Great Britain, forming the target for the Bank of England’s public debt, which will still exist and need to be dealt Monetary Policy Committee. The CPI excludes mortgage with even when the deficit is no longer adding to it, does interest payments, which are not relevant to the majority she not accept that the Office for Budget Responsibility of pensioners and benefit recipients. In fact, only 7% of has challenged the Government to do something the pensioners have a mortgage, and working-age benefit previous Government did not do and get a grip on the recipients can get help with their housing costs. The long-term sustainability of spending, particularly on methodology used to calculate the CPI takes into account older people? the fact that many people tend to trade down to cheaper goods when prices rise; the RPI does not do that. That Dame Anne Begg: My right hon. Friend the Member comprises a significant portion of the gap between the for East Ham claimed that there might be a case for CPI and the RPI. In terms of population coverage, the deficit reduction in the short term. We are considering RPI excludes the significant group of pensioner households women and the accelerated increase in the state retirement who receive 75% or more of their income from the state; age to 66, however, and, in terms of the 50-year pension the CPI includes them. 1199 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1200

[Rehman Chishti] I should like briefly to refer to correspondence from pensioner constituents who are concerned about the The intention of indexing benefits and pensions is to change from RPI to CPI. At the very least, there is a protect their purchasing power, not to give the highest problem of perception. People see that RPI for the third increase possible. Increases in line with growth in the quarter of 2010 was 4.6%, whereas CPI was 3.1%. They CPI maintain benefit and pension value, as well as see that the current rate of inflation under RPI is putting the system on a more sustainable footing, allowing 5.1% and that it is 4% under CPI. Clearly, people are the Government to focus help where it is needed most. worried. People have made long-term financial decisions on expectations that might not be realised. I raised the Sheila Gilmore: If the change to the CPI is such a triple lock in an intervention and I do not want to good move, why are the Government running scared of discuss it in detail, but I worry about its longevity using it as part of the triple lock for the basic state because of concerns that have been expressed many pension this year and picking another figure out of the times in the past. air in order, presumably, to make pensioners feel better I have received correspondence about CPI and RPI about what is happening? from the Public and Commercial Services Union, the Civil Service Pensioners Alliance, Age UK and my Rehman Chishti: The hon. Lady raises an interesting constituents. My attention has been drawn to some point, which I think was dealt with by the Minister. She statistics and I would like to read them into the record. refers to pensioners getting the right deal from the triple The PCS states that using the base of 1988, had CPI lock. It is important that we listen to what people in the been used to uprate a £10,000 pension, its value now third sector, not only politicians, say about how this will would be £18,035, compared with £20,935 under RPI—a affect people. I have here a quote from Age UK’s difference of 16%. A pensioner on the median public charity director, Michelle Mitchell: sector pension of £5,500 who has been retired for “We are delighted the Government is introducing a ‘triple 20 years would now be on £4,845—a loss of 12% or guarantee’ to raise the basic state pension from April, and also a £655. It is those sorts of figures that worry people. matching increase for Pension Credit which will help the poorest in later life.” Obviously, CPI has been higher than RPI in some years—1991, 1993, 1996, 1999 and 2008—but the Treasury Stephen Lloyd: I take my hon. Friend’s point entirely. itself reckons that over the next five years, RPI will Does he agree that one of the profound advantages of consistently be higher than CPI. Perhaps that is because the triple lock is that we will not have the deplorable of the predicted steeper rises in housing costs. I refer the situation of a few years ago under the previous Government, House to table C2 in the Budget Red Book, which puts when pensions were uprated by 50p? There are real the overall change to 2016 of CPI at 13.7% and of RPI advantages to the triple lock: it means that people can at 22.1%. That is a substantial difference. Of course, a be sure that they will have a decent minimum rise. gloss has been put on, but I will not go into that at the moment. Rehman Chishti: The hon. Gentleman raises a good and pertinent point. He said 50p, but to be fair to the Naomi Long (Belfast East) (Alliance): One argument Opposition, I think that it was 75p. Even so, it was for the change to CPI is that many of those in receipt of totally unacceptable. If we link that to other things that a pension are insulated from fluctuations in housing happened to pensioners and the elderly—for example, costs because they are not paying a mortgage. However, the closure of so many post offices that were a lifeline does the hon. Gentleman agree that they often have for them—it is clear that the overall package under the other private housing costs that are not reflected in CPI, previous Government was completely unacceptable. This such as insurance costs and the depreciation of their measure goes a long way towards improving their quality properties? of life. It is estimated that the average person retiring on a Hywel Williams: That is a valid point. Of course, the full basic state pension in 2011 will receive £15,000 more variation across the country is quite substantial. I refer in basic state pension income, and that can only be a again to my own constituency, where there has traditionally good thing. In the light of what I have described, it is always been a very high level of owner-occupation. absolutely right and proper. I fully support the move to There are older people who own their houses, but in the CPI and the wider package that the Government are other areas people are still paying off their mortgages. putting forward. The figure of 7% has been mentioned—that is a lot of Looking at the time and applying the principle that people who will be hit. brevity is a virtue, not a vice, I will end my remarks. Sheila Gilmore: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that 3.18 pm that figure might well grow in future? Given the level of Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): I begin by welcoming borrowing that many people have made to buy properties, the Government’s change of mind on housing benefits. and that a lot of people are buying at a much later age, If that had not happened, there would have been a many more people are likely to move into retirement disastrous effect on constituencies such as mine which with a mortgage still to repay. have high unemployment rates and slim prospects of people finding a job within a year. There will be a Hywel Williams: That is a very good point. Indeed, I general welcome for that. I wanted to say that because I think I might be one of those people. I understand that have campaigned about it in the past, as have many of the average age of the first-time buyer is now 38. These my constituents. are valid worries that people have. 1201 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1202

The arguments on RPI and CPI have been well in the amount that is paid once someone starts to rehearsed this afternoon so I will not go further into receive the basic state pension. I am not sure of the them. I have a great deal of respect for the Minister technicalities, but she explained how she was written to and I think he would agree with me and many other way back in November to say that now she was 60, her people that what we need is a bit of calm and civil service pension would be reduced, because she was consensus on pensions policy—something that has receiving the basic state pension. Of course, however, been lacking for 25 or 30 years. I worry that this change because she is a woman and the age at which women will not lead to consensus and that he might have fallen start to receive their pension is to be higher, she will not in with a bad lot. start to get her basic state pension until May this year. Although the period is only a few short months, there 3.24 pm will be women for whom the gap is a lot longer. I would be extremely grateful if the Minister could address that Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con): point when he winds up. I listened carefully to his A lot has been said about CPI and RPI, but I will avoid opening remarks, and I thought that he put forward a the technical aspects of that and restrict my comments very good case for CPI which will help me when I talk to two others. to my pensioners. I thank him. First, my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott) mentioned that it was a Conservative Government who many years ago broke the link between 3.31 pm the basic state pension and earnings. I was one of few John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): I will Conservatives to oppose that at the time. About 11 years not apologise for breaking the consensus—although I ago, when I was the parliamentary candidate in Luton was about to apologise to the hon. Member for Cardiff South, I went to see the late Jack Jones, who was Central (Jenny Willott), who welcomed the consensus president of the National Pensioners Convention, to across the House. I oppose the order, and will seek to offer my support to the campaign to restore the link. vote against it. I do not accept that the installation of Jack, sitting at the other side of a desk, was astounded CPI will be of benefit in either the long term or the that a Tory had come to offer his support, and he said, short term. I am grateful that the Government have not “Gordon, I really appreciate that you’re backing me, introduced it for the basic state pension at least for this but I have to tell you, son, you’re never going to get your year, but its installation across all the other benefits will party to agree to restore the link.” Jack died a couple of result in detriment. To take £6 billion out of the payments years ago, and I wish he was alive today to see that a to the poorest in our society is unacceptable. My hon. Conservative-led coalition is restoring the link. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne That is long overdue. I shall not make any partisan Begg) said that the order is indivisible, so by not voting points about the previous Government not delivering, for it we would prevent other overall increases from because looking after our pensioners is beyond party going ahead. However, it is not beyond the wit of any politics. When I supported the pensioners way back in Government to introduce another order within hours—or 2001, I was one of few parliamentary candidates who at least days—that could amend what is in this order to went into the election wanting to restore the link—I was enable us to get some justice for pensioners. certainly the only such Conservative candidate—but it I am reticent about criticising the Minister. I think was not Labour party, Conservative party or Lib Dem that I have moved a Budget amendment on restoring policy at that time. I am delighted that we have moved the link with earnings every year for the past 13 years, on and that we will restore the link. and I think that we walked through the Lobby together I am even more pleased with the Government, because on an annual basis in that endeavour. I am grateful, many of the pensioners in my constituency did not therefore, for the restoration of the link with earnings. I want us just to restore the link to earnings, because RPI know that it was in the Labour party’s most recent is sometimes higher than earnings. Jack Jones mentioned manifesto to restore the link in due course. I just wish that too. We then started campaigning not for the that we had done it earlier, because that would have restoration of the link with earnings, but to ensure that demonstrated our overall commitment to tackling pensioner we used whichever of earnings inflation or prices inflation poverty. However, I know how much the previous was the higher. As I said, I will not go into the technical Government did to tackle pensioner poverty. Many differences between CPI and RPI, because the pensioners people, particularly pensioners and many on benefits, in my constituency just want a decent increase in their are now living lives so much better than they would pensions based on the higher measure of inflation. The have been had it not been for the previous Government’s triple lock now includes the 2.5% stipulation, so if policies. either inflation measure is less than that, the increase I was a critic of the extension of the means-testing will be 2.5%. They welcome that, so I thank Ministers system. I thought that it was a disincentive to saving and my coalition Government for delivering on a long- and costly to administer. Nevertheless, I welcome what standing promise. the previous Government did. I still think, however, The second aspect of the orders that I want to talk that in a civilised society it is a mark of shame that about relates to a problem that is experienced by many reflects on all of us that there are still 2 million pensioners women pensioners who have worked in the civil service. living in poverty, given that we are the fifth richest I will give one example. One woman who retired early country in the world. It behoves all parties to tackle this on a civil service pension came to see me in my surgery issue. The question has been asked time and time again: recently—I have written to the Minister, and hope to how should we do it? For me the answer is straightforward, get a response some time soon. She had reached the age and expresses an argument that we have been putting of 60, and told me that some arcane measure in the civil forward since the foundation of the Labour party—fairer service pension scheme means that there is a reduction taxation and redistribution of wealth. 1203 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1204

[John McDonnell] case, it should have been outlined before the election with examples of the implications for pensions and I have listened to the debate on moving from RPI to benefits overall. To make this change at this time casts CPI. We can all marshal different battalions on the field doubt on the motivation for the change from RPI to of this debate—quotes from the Institute for Fiscal CPI. We should have been more honest in the debate Studies, the Office for National Statistics, and so on. before the election. Most Members will have received through the post this As for the knock-on effects on occupational pensions, week an assessment of the Government’s welfare reform I chair the PCS trade union parliamentary group, and policies by the Social Policy Association. I concur with we have circulated fairly detailed evidence of the implications the chapter in the report by Alan Walker of the University for public sector workers. It looks as though, on average, of Sheffield, who states: there will be a loss of between £500 and £700 a year. “The Government claims that the CPI represents low income The cumulative effect of that in the long term is significant, groups’ expenditure better than RPI but there is no convincing and I am grateful that other Members have read its evidence to support this claim and according to IFS (2010) it is implications into the record. the RPI that provides a ‘superior’ coverage of goods and services.” My right hon. Friend quoted the Hutton report. I To some extent, we can dance angels on the head of a take those concerns seriously—a 15% cut, and possibly pin on this subject. As someone who has studied some a consequential cut of up to 25% in the long term. I statistics in the past, I have gone into the debates on the firmly believe that those are accrued rights—we have difference between the geometric mean and the arithmetic had that debate on the civil service compensation scheme— mean. From that, I conclude that CPI is 0.5% minimum and that people have planned their lives on the basis of off the calculation compared with RPI. However, there what they thought they could expect as a pension in the are concerns that the use of CPI will result in a reduction. long term. To undermine those accrued rights is not As my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham only wrong and immoral but legally dubious, and there (Stephen Timms) asked, if that was not the case, why may be challenges to that effect. would the Government need to try to protect pensions this year? As my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen The effects spread far beyond that. The right hon. South said, the reduction from 4.6% to 3.1% is nearly Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Mr Randall) one third of people’s overall increase. That is significant, and I have constituents who work at Heathrow airport so I am pleased that the Government are protecting the for British Airways and are members of the British increase for this year, but the pensioners in my constituency Airways pension scheme. They work for a former will be worried about the introduction of CPI for future nationalised industry, so their pensions shadow what years. happens in the public sector. We have had letters demonstrating the potential consequences in terms of I remain unconvinced about housing costs, partly cuts in their pensions in the long term. Again, the because of some the arguments that have been presented problem came upon them relatively suddenly, and should about the 7% of people—that still represents a sizeable have been properly explained and discussed before the number not to be taken into account—who will be general election. affected, who do have housing costs. As my right hon. Friend said, there is an ageing profile of people who are My concern now is that the change will have an taking on mortgages later in life, so housing costs will immediate detrimental effect over the next few years. become a more significant factor. Like most London Members, and many others, I deal in my constituency surgery with people living in poverty In addition, one of the burdens that many pensioners and on the margins of dignity. Any cut, in the short or feel in particular is increased council tax. I do not long term, in their pensions or benefits will push some believe that that element is covered by the CPI calculation of them over the edge into virtual destitution. That is as it was with RPI. why I am anxious about anything that will decrease The hon. Member for Sittingbourne— their incomes. On that basis, I cannot support this order. I understand why some of my hon. Friends do Gordon Henderson: And Sheppey. not wish to participate in a vote, but I want to put my opposition on record, because the change will have an John McDonnell: I would not want to miss out Sheppey. impact on my constituents. It will also add to poverty Let us take the common-sense approach of the hon. and deprivation in our society—something that any Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Gordon Government should tackle. Henderson) and ask, “What do pensioners feel like at We should, collectively, be ashamed of the way in the moment?” I think that they feel that they are under which we have treated pensioners over decades. Our significant pressure as a result of inflation. The researchers’ pension is now 16% of average earnings, whereas in evidence shows that inflationary pressures hit pensioners France it is 60% and in the Netherlands 82%. Over time harder than the average household. and incrementally, we have allowed our pensioners to I am concerned about the shift, which I oppose. It is a lose their right to a decent pension, and therefore to a momentous shift: it represents one third off an increase. decent quality of life. This order will add to that incremental I say to the Minister that this should have been properly undermining of the quality of life of my constituents, debated before the election if it was to be a long-term and on that basis I will seek a Division on it. shift. I can understand, though I do not believe, the argument that when the Government came to power 3.41 pm they opened the books and found that they had to introduce emergency measures. However, that is not Mike Freer (Finchley and Golders Green) (Con): I being argued. It is being argued that this proposal, per wish to correct the hon. Member for Edinburgh East se, is the beneficial or right thing to do. If that were the (Sheila Gilmore), who talked about mortgages in retirement. 1205 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1206

I come from a financial services background—indeed, I Today’s debate has made it very clear that these have the scars on my back from being regulated by the proposals are being made not just because of the current Financial Services Authority—and I can tell her that it economic situation or because of the Government’s is virtually impossible to sell a mortgage to someone policy of deficit reduction, but because of the belief on beyond retirement age. The regulator simply will not the Government Benches that this is a more appropriate allow it. means of uprating. I have always taken the view—the I compliment the Minister, because it is a pleasure to trade union view—that pensions are deferred pay. It is see a Minister with such a grip on his portfolio. Indeed, very important that people have certainty in arrangements it is almost scary to see a Minister in such charge of the for their retirement. The decision we are making today detail. I welcome his clarity about the net effect of the will have implications for many of the lowest-income triple lock on the lower pension indexation, which people, who are dependent on benefits, and some of the means that our pensioners will be better off both today poorest pensioners. and in the long term. I have been lobbied by a considerable number of A key issue is the long-term viability of public sector constituents on this issue, but that number is a very pension schemes. I tried to press the right hon. Member small fraction of the number of people who will be for East Ham (Stephen Timms) on that point, but I was affected by these changes and, I suspect, will be very unable to get a firm response. I hope that the Minister angry when they realise the impact that the changes will will address the point when he winds up. I admit that have on them. I have also been lobbied by several of the my knowledge of pension fund management is a little trade unions that represent the affected individuals. rusty, as I stepped down as a pension fund trustee some My hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South 18 months ago, but one of the key issues facing the (Dame Anne Begg) mentioned women in the local public sector is not necessarily the pensioners but the government pension scheme, who have an average pension fact that most public sector pensions are structurally of approximately £2,600 per annum and will be worse non-viable. The contributions simply do not meet the off by £40 this year if the changes go ahead. They future liabilities. For example, the local government would have been £40 better off if the RPI link had been pension scheme for London—and for many of the maintained. According to the trade union Unison, the bodies that are attached to it—is running at 75% to average person who receives a pension from the local 80% of contributions to future liabilities. That is not government pension scheme receives £4,100 per annum, sustainable. and they will be £62 worse off in the coming year if the I may be wrong, but one of the long-term benefits of change goes ahead. A woman who works in the the move from RPI to CPI is surely that it would national health service receives, on average, a pension of address that structural imbalance between contributions £3,500; these are not people on high incomes, by any and future liabilities. You cannot run a pension scheme stretch of the imagination, and they will be £53 worse with a 20% gap between liabilities and contributions. off this year if the change goes ahead. You can plug that gap only by reducing the pensions If we pass the order today, it is likely that next year a drawn down or increasing the contributions from the similar order will be proposed, and the same approach employer—in London that means the council tax payer will be taken for decades. The cumulative effect on the or the taxpayer in some other form—or from the employee. pensions of individuals will be very substantial indeed. There is no money tree on which the Government can Reference was made to figures released by the PCS draw to plug the gap in public sector pension schemes. trade union showing the impact that it thinks the change The money can come only from the taxpayer or from will have on its members. the employee. We must address that structural deficit. Can the Minister confirm that one underlying reason These are very considerable public policy issues, about for the change is to address that structural gap between the extent to which we feel it is important as a society— contributions and viability? May I gently ask him to stray beyond his brief and say whether the Government Jane Ellison: I must press the hon. Lady. She refers to will consider closing the existing defined benefit schemes the impact on pensioners, but does she give regard to for the public sector and moving to defined contribution the impact for the taxpayer of an aspect mentioned by schemes, not only to increase portability but to increase my hon. Friend the Member for Finchley and Golders the transparency of what people are getting for their Green (Mike Freer)—the long-term lack of viability of money and, most importantly, increase the affordability major pension funds in the public sector? of those pension schemes for the public purse? Katy Clark: The matter under discussion has long-term 3.45 pm and considerable public policy implications. Indeed, the Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab): My Fire Brigades Union informs me that part of Lord contribution will be brief, but I want to speak because Hutton’s interim report states that pay freezes and work we are taking a momentous decision today. It is very force reductions will reduce future pension costs. Further, sad, on the day when we are passing legislation that will the gross cost of paying unfunded public service pensions reinstate the link between earnings and pensions—for is expected to fall from 1.9% of GDP in 2011 to 1.4% of which I and many Labour Members have campaigned GDP by 2060. If the long-term effect is that we pay less over many years, and which Government Members as a society towards pension funds, that will have significant have been able to get their Ministers to deliver on—that implications for the individuals concerned, who will we are also probably going to pass legislation that will have less income, but also for the public purse. If people make a very significant, and probably a very long-term, do not have adequate pension provision for their retirement, change to the way in which we uprate pensions and the state will have to pick up the cost, perhaps in greater benefits. benefit bills. 1207 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1208

[Katy Clark] wind-ups. She asked why we had chosen a different figure for the pension credit. As I think I explained in If public policy does not develop in such a way that my opening remarks, as we were putting the basic state people employed in the private and public sectors have pension up by about £4.50 a week, we did not want the pensions constructed and funded to be their main source increase in pension credit to be less than that, because of income in retirement, that will have substantial the poorest pensioners would not have the full benefit implications. If the changes go ahead, constituents of of the pension rise. That was the basis for the increase in Members on both sides of the House will be worse off. pension credit. No Member should take that lightly, given that inflation The right hon. Member for East Ham asked about is rising and people are facing difficulties. I say to the the impact assessment on occupational pensions, and I hon. Lady and to other Members who support the am happy to say a few words about that. In December, decision that we as a society need to find the funds we published an impact assessment suggesting a £76 billion collectively. We need a public policy that encourages impact from the reduction in revaluation and indexation. individuals to save for their retirement, but that also To respond to a point made by my hon. Friend the puts provision in place to ensure that they have adequate Member for Finchley and Golders Green (Mike Freer), pensions in retirement. one way of looking at that is to see £76 billion less in In the emergency Budget in June last year, the Chancellor pensions, but another way is to see a £76 billion boost announced that the change would result in a saving of for British business. We are trying to reduce the regulatory more than £6 billion a year by the end of this Parliament. burden on British business, so an advantage of the There is no doubt, therefore, that the proposal is cost change—albeit not the purpose—is that major British driven. My submission is that, as an ageing society, we firms will make a saving, and they and their pension need to find ways, collectively and individually, to put funds will be in a stronger position as a result. Many more aside for our retirement. We need pensions that pension schemes and companies have welcomed the are at a reasonable level for people to live on in retirement. change for that reason. If the change goes ahead, fewer people will have pensions We discovered an error. We made a mistake, for that allow them an adequate standard of living in which I apologise. As soon as we found it, we decided to retirement. give the House a revised estimate. In addition, we were asked by the Regulatory Policy Committee to revise the 3.53 pm way we calculate net present values; I know that the The Minister of State, Department for Work and right hon. Gentleman takes a close interest in such Pensions (Steve Webb): We have had a worthwhile debate, matters, and if he is not careful I shall tell him what it with some thoughtful and well-informed contributions. was. To draw the threads together, we reissued the I compliment all Members who have taken part, as the figures last week, ahead of this debate, with an £83 billion issue is important to our constituents. All Members will estimate. That is a further interim estimate. We then have received representations on the matter, and Members undertook field research, as I mentioned, to ask companies who are here on the final Thursday afternoon before a how they will respond to CPI/RPI. We have early results; recess show their sense of priorities. it would be premature to say what the impact will be, I enjoyed the accusation from the right hon. Member but early indications are that fewer pension funds will for East Ham (Stephen Timms), whom I think of as my take advantage of CPI than we had thought. Such right hon. Friend, that the policy is ideologically driven. things are complex and there could be factors that move I have never heard the use of the geometric mean them in the other direction, but my sense is that the described as ideologically driven. Intriguingly, his position final version of the figures is more likely to be lower seemed to be that it would be bad to make such a than the one we have already published, but we thought proposal on a point of principle, but that he could we should give the latest estimate as soon as we had it. support it if it was a temporary expedient because of a The right hon. Gentleman raised the important issue financial mess. That is not the position of the Government, of accrued rights. It is a fundamental point and it whose judgment is that CPI is a better measure of relates to my pre-election remarks about a pension inflation, not a temporary fix. I am grateful that he promise made being a pension promise kept. What is appeared to be saying that he would support us for the accrued right of someone in a public sector pension three years on grounds of expediency. scheme, or any pension scheme? The first point is that Stephen Timms: If CPI uprating is right in principle, everything accrued to date—all the revaluations to date, why are the Government not doing it this year? based on RPI—stand; we are not going back and saying that all the revaluations to date have to be reworked Steve Webb: We are doing it this year for pretty much according to CPI. The provision is prospective, not every benefit in the entire uprating order, which runs to retrospective. many pages. The ones we are not doing it for are the The question then is what future expectation people basic pension and the pension credit. We are not doing legitimately have. If they are in a company scheme that it for the basic pension because the budget we inherited has RPI in the rules, we actively chose not to override provided for a larger increase and we did not want to that. If that was their expectation, because it was in the pay a smaller increase than was planned. If the right rules, that is what they will get. However, people in the hon. Gentleman thinks we should have done so, I will public sector are members of a scheme whose rules are take that advice, but he probably welcomes the fact that tied by statute to what we do to SERPS. That is the we did not follow it. accrued right they have always had, and we are not The Chair of the Select Committee, the hon. Member changing it. We shall go on indexing their pensions in for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg), indicated that line with what we do to SERPS each year. That was the unfortunately she could not be in the Chamber for the pension promise they were made; that is the pension 1209 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1210 promise we are keeping. We are indexing SERPS by point to him. All the figures he quoted, based on CPI. I accept that, and I also accept that on average that average civil service pensions, prove my point. If we will be lower than RPI, typically by about 0.8% a year. I take them in isolation, CPI is lower than RPI, but do not dispute that. The accrued right is the one we are people do not just get their civil service pension—they honouring. also get their state pension. We are putting more in The right hon. Gentleman said in parenthesis that through the state pension than we are taking away pensioner inflation is typically higher than general inflation. typically through the additional pension because of the I do not know whether he actually believes that; it was relative sizes and the difference between the various never something his Government took into account indices. Our constituents write to us and raise the bit when setting pensions. They never uprated pensions they see, but overall the state pension will more than differently because of pensioner inflation. There are make up for that for the vast majority of people, although certainly periods when pensioner inflation is higher not for people with very large pensions. when, as the right hon. Gentleman said, the costs of On the ratchet, I simply accept the hon. Gentleman’s fuel and food are rising faster than the norm, but there rebuke for fiscal irresponsibility. I will take it on the are other periods when it is lower. I have asked officials chin and pass it on to the Chancellor for him. to look at the matter and there is no evidence over a I enjoyed the contribution of my hon. Friend the 20-year run that pensioners buy goods that have that Member for Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Gordon inflation time bomb ticking away inside them. There are Henderson) and his account of his conversation with times when inflation is higher, which may include recently, Jack Jones. I am delighted to say that both coalition and times when it is lower, but over the long run there is partners supported that. We needed the Chancellor on no evidence for that proposition. board for that one. I regard it as being to the credit of My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central both coalition partners that we have been able finally to (Jenny Willott) welcomed the restoration of the earnings restore the earnings link. I am grateful to my hon. link, and the triple lock. I am grateful for her support. Friend for raising the case of his constituent. As he was She quite properly put me on the spot about the future describing it, I was thinking that I was sure I signed a of the pension system. I accept her analysis; we need a letter on that the other day, and I gather he has now pension system fit for the future. If we are to auto-enrol received it. I apologise to his constituent for the mistake 10 million of our fellow citizens, we need to be confident that was made and I hope that that has now been resolved. that it pays to save, and that they will be better off. I The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John assure her that that is absolutely central to our thinking McDonnell) perfectly properly says that he will not about long-term pension reform. We are making good support the order and that he is against mass means-testing progress on that project. and so am I. A pension system that allows too many The Chair of the Select Committee asked a number people to retire poor and means that they have to be of questions. I will respond to one or two on the record, swept up by a leaky safety net is not a good, sustainable although she has explained why she is not here to hear long-term pension system. I have set it as my goal to do the response. She kept making the point that the basic something about that. We may not agree about these state pension is not the only part of a pensioner’s orders but we have common cause on that principle. income. Of course it is not. I thought that the hon. Member for North Ayrshire John McDonnell: Did the Minister ever consider a and Arran (Katy Clark) made some sincere comments. quadruple lock so that, earnings or inflation, CPI or She raised the issue of people with relatively modest RPI, whichever was the higher, would be used? occupational pensions who will get less under CPI. The state pension is bigger than all of those figures. Every Steve Webb: We did look at that. Either one could say one of the figures she quoted is less than the basic state that what one is trying to do with pensions and benefits pension. The package of Government policy on pension is protect pensioners’ spending power—that would be a indexation is for an earnings link on the basic and a CPI price measure—or one could protect people’s position link on the additional. The basic pension of every relative to the rest of society, which is an earnings person she is concerned about is bigger than their measure. One wants to avoid silly small figures such as additional pension, the earnings link in the long run is 75p, which is where the 2.5% comes from. To say, “But worth 2% more than prices and CPI is 0.8% less than we will measure inflation according to different measures RPI. The people she is most concerned about will and we will pick the biggest” conceptually does not overwhelmingly benefit from our package of policies. work for me. We could have done that, but in our Therefore, I can assure her on that point. Taking the judgment the point of revaluation is to maintain spending package as a whole, they will be better off, not worse off. power fairly for the group in question. Our judgment is My hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and that CPI is the answer to that question. Rainham (Rehman Chishti) made an important There is a separate question about whether pensions contribution and pointed out that Age UK, which is should be higher or lower. In a way, the hon. Gentleman very much an independent organisation, was delighted and the hon. Member for North Ayrshire and Arran are by the triple lock, because it is a historic move to give saying that we should be paying bigger pensions. It pensioners the best of earnings, prices, plus 2.5%. I wish seems to me that that is an entirely separate debate from only that we were able to do this in a normal year—in how we should correct for inflation. That is where CPI 16 of the past 20 years, earnings were greater than comes in. prices. People would then start to see the benefit of the earnings link and the triple lock, and in time they will. John McDonnell: There is a point of principle that The hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) quoted the Minister and I have argued over the past 13 years at some civil service pension figures. I make the same least, which is that, whatever measure is introduced, 1211 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1212

[John McDonnell] Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hemming, John Carswell, Mr Douglas Henderson, Gordon there should not be a loss. Having that quadruple lock Cash, Mr William Hendry, Charles would convince people that this is at least a way forward, Chishti, Rehman Herbert, rh Nick because people would be protected against years such Chope, Mr Christopher Hinds, Damian as those five out of the past 20 where CPI was higher Clappison, Mr James Hollingbery, George Clark, rh Greg Hollobone, Mr Philip than RPI. Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hopkins, Kris Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Horwood, Martin Steve Webb: I come back to my point that as the basic Coffey, Dr Thérèse Howell, John state pension is a big part of pensioners’income, particularly Collins, Damian Hughes, rh Simon for the most vulnerable, we are protecting their living Colvile, Oliver Huhne, rh Chris standards overall—they will get bigger increases under Cox, Mr Geoffrey Huppert, Dr Julian this package of indexation than they would have on the Crabb, Stephen James, Margot basis of a straightforward RPI level alone. I believe we Davies, David T. C. Javid, Sajid are doing the right thing. (Monmouth) Jenkin, Mr Bernard Davies, Glyn Johnson, Gareth I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Davies, Philip Johnson, Joseph Finchley and Golders Green (Mike Freer) for his kind de Bois, Nick Jones, Andrew comments and I appreciate the expertise he brings to Dinenage, Caroline Jones, Mr David the debate. He was absolutely right that the idea that large Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Jones, Mr Marcus numbers of pensioners will have large mortgages is Doyle-Price, Jackie Kawczynski, Daniel quite implausible. It is true that 7% have some mortgage Duncan, rh Mr Alan Kelly, Chris interest at the moment, but even those who face mortgage Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Kirby, Simon interest will typically have lower average amounts because Dunne, Mr Philip Kwarteng, Kwasi they will be towards the end of their mortgage terms. Ellis, Michael Laing, Mrs Eleanor Basing an inflation measure on an index that includes Ellison, Jane Lamb, Norman mortgage interest seems to me to be quite inappropriate Ellwood, Mr Tobias Lancaster, Mark for pensioners. As my hon. Friend pointed out, one Elphicke, Charlie Latham, Pauline consequence of CPI schemes such as the local government Eustice, George Laws, rh Mr David pension scheme is that it will help to put pensioners on Evans, Graham Leadsom, Andrea Evans, Jonathan Lee, Jessica a more even keel. As he also rightly said, this money has Evennett, Mr David Lee, Dr Phillip to come from somewhere—somebody has to find it—and Fabricant, Michael Lefroy, Jeremy this order will have the consequence of getting the Featherstone, Lynne Leigh, Mr Edward systems on to a more sustainable basis. My hon. Friend Field, Mr Mark Leslie, Charlotte tempts me on public sector pension reform, but I obviously Foster, rh Mr Don Lewis, Brandon must not pre-empt what Lord Hutton will say. He will Francois, rh Mr Mark Lewis, Dr Julian be saying what he is going to say within the next few Freeman, George Lidington, rh Mr David weeks, so we do not have much longer to wait. Freer, Mike Lilley, rh Mr Peter Drawing the threads together, this debate has provided Fullbrook, Lorraine Lloyd, Stephen Fuller, Richard Lopresti, Jack a worthwhile exploration of the issues. Our fundamental Garnier, Mr Edward Loughton, Tim point is that the principal order will cost the Government Gauke, Mr David Lumley, Karen £4.3 billion to protect and enhance the benefits for the George, Andrew Macleod, Mary people who need them the most. I am proud to commend Gibb, Mr Nick Maude, rh Mr Francis these provisions to the House. Gilbert, Stephen Maynard, Paul Question put, Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl McCartney, Jason Glen, John McCartney, Karl The House divided: Ayes 247, Noes 19. Goldsmith, Zac McVey, Esther Division No. 212] [4.6 pm Goodwill, Mr Robert Menzies, Mark Grant, Mrs Helen Metcalfe, Stephen AYES Grayling, rh Chris Miller, Maria Green, Damian Milton, Anne Alexander, rh Danny Bradley, Karen Greening, Justine Mordaunt, Penny Amess, Mr David Brady, Mr Graham Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Morgan, Nicky Andrew, Stuart Brake, Tom Griffiths, Andrew Morris, Anne Marie Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Bray, Angie Gummer, Ben Morris, David Bacon, Mr Richard Brazier, Mr Julian Gyimah, Mr Sam Morris, James Baker, Norman Bridgen, Andrew Halfon, Robert Mosley, Stephen Baldry, Tony Brine, Mr Steve Hames, Duncan Mowat, David Barclay, Stephen Brokenshire, James Hammond, rh Mr Philip Mulholland, Greg Barker, Gregory Browne, Mr Jeremy Hancock, Matthew Munt, Tessa Barwell, Gavin Bruce, Fiona Hands, Greg Murray, Sheryll Bebb, Guto Bruce, rh Malcolm Beresford, Sir Paul Buckland, Mr Robert Harper, Mr Mark Murrison, Dr Andrew Berry, Jake Burley, Mr Aidan Harrington, Richard Neill, Robert Bingham, Andrew Burns, Conor Harris, Rebecca Newmark, Mr Brooks Binley, Mr Brian Burns, rh Mr Simon Hart, Simon Newton, Sarah Birtwistle, Gordon Burstow, Paul Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Nokes, Caroline Blackman, Bob Byles, Dan Heald, Mr Oliver Nuttall, Mr David Blunt, Mr Crispin Cairns, Alun Heath, Mr David O’Brien, Mr Stephen Boles, Nick Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Heaton-Harris, Chris Ollerenshaw, Eric 1213 Social Security17 FEBRUARY 2011 Social Security 1214

Opperman, Guy Stunell, Andrew PETITIONS Patel, Priti Sturdy, Julian Pawsey, Mark Swales, Ian Funding for English for Speakers of other Languages Penning, Mike Swinson, Jo Courses Percy, Andrew Syms, Mr Robert Phillips, Stephen Teather, Sarah 4.18 pm Pincher, Christopher Thurso, John Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): Poulter, Dr Daniel Timpson, Mr Edward I wish to present a petition on behalf of the tutors and Prisk, Mr Mark Tomlinson, Justin students of English for speakers of other languages— Pritchard, Mark Truss, Elizabeth ESOL—in Liverpool. The petitioners believe that the Pugh, John Turner, Mr Andrew proposed changes will have a devastating effect on Reckless, Mark Uppal, Paul ESOL provision, ESOL teachers’ jobs and ESOL students, Rees-Mogg, Jacob Vara, Mr Shailesh particularly those on low wages or on no wage at all. Reid, Mr Alan Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Robertson, Mr Laurence Walker, Mr Charles I am grateful for the support of my hon. Friend the Rogerson, Dan Walker, Mr Robin Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), who is Rudd, Amber Ward, Mr David unfortunately unable to be here owing to parliamentary Russell, Bob Weatherley, Mike business in Westminster Hall, but is also a supporter of Rutley, David Webb, Steve the petition. There are 322 signatures. Sandys, Laura Wharton, James The petition states: Scott, Mr Lee Wheeler, Heather The Petition of tutors and students of English for speakers of Selous, Andrew White, Chris other languages (ESOL) in Liverpool, Sharma, Alok Wiggin, Bill Declares that the Petitioners oppose the proposed changes to Shelbrooke, Alec Williamson, Gavin the funding for English for speakers of other languages (ESOL) Simmonds, Mark Willott, Jenny courses in the Government’s ‘Investing in Skills for Sustainable Skidmore, Chris Wilson, Mr Rob Growth’ document; notes that the Petitioners believe that the Smith, Henry Wright, Jeremy proposed changes will have a devastating effect on ESOL provision, Smith, Julian Wright, Simon ESOL teachers’ jobs and ESOL students, particularly those on low wages; and further notes that the Petitioners believe that in Soames, Nicholas Yeo, Mr Tim Soubry, Anna Liverpool many students will be left with little hope of improving Young, rh Sir George Spencer, Mr Mark their language skills and job prospects as a result of the changes. Zahawi, Nadhim Stephenson, Andrew The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons Stewart, Bob Tellers for the Ayes: urges the Government not to cut funding for ESOL courses. Stewart, Iain Miss Chloe Smith and And the Petitioners remain, etc. Stride, Mel Angela Watkinson [P000889] Protection of Kingswood Green Belt NOES (South Gloucestershire) Clark, Katy Robertson, Angus Cruddas, Jon Rotheram, Steve 4.20 pm Donaldson, rh Mr Jeffrey M. Skinner, Mr Dennis Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con): I wish to present Flynn, Paul Smith, rh Mr Andrew the petition of the residents of Longwell Green, Hanham, Hopkins, Kelvin Weir, Mr Mike Mangotsfield, Emersons Green, North Common, Oldland Hosie, Stewart Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Common, Warmley, Siston, Bridgeyate, Bitton, Willsbridge, Jackson, Glenda Williams, Hywel and Kingswood. Wishart, Pete Long, Naomi The petition states: McDonnell, John Tellers for the Noes: The Petition of residents of Longwell Green, Hanham, Owen, Albert Jonathan Edwards and Mangotsfield, Emersons Green, North Common, Oldland Common, Pearce, Teresa Jeremy Corbyn Warmley, Siston, Bridgeyate, Bitton, Willsbridge, and Kingswood, Declares that the Petitioners are concerned by attempts to Question accordingly agreed to. build inappropriate development on the Kingswood Green Belt; Resolved, notes that Green Belt sites at Williams Close, Longwell Green, Cossham Street, Mangotsfield and Barry Road, Oldland Common That the draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2011, have faced applications to build housing which has consistently which was laid before this House on 3 February, be approved. been opposed by local residents, locally elected councillors and the Member of Parliament; notes that South Gloucestershire Council’s Core Strategy protects the Kingswood Green Belt; PENSIONS notes that Regional Spatial Strategies responsible for placing Resolved, local Green Belts at risk will shortly be abolished; notes that the That the draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2011, Planning Inspectorate must take the abolition of Regional Spatial which was laid before this House on 3 February, be approved.—(Steve Strategies into account as a material consideration when ruling Webb.) on current appeals; and further welcomes that decisions over future development will be returned to democratically elected councillors. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Government to take all possible steps to protect and preserve the Kingswood Green Belt for future generations to come. And the Petitioners remain, etc. [P000890] 1215 17 FEBRUARY 2011 Housing Benefit 1216

Housing Benefit Even at current LHA rates, the difference between the one-bedroom rate and the SRR rate can be substantial. Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House For example, according to Shelter, the shared room rate do now adjourn.—(Miss Chloe Smith.) stands at £71 per week on average, while the rate for a one-bedroom flat is £137 per week. In the east Thames valley, it is £88 versus £150 per week; in inner east 4.22 pm London, it is £103 compared with an average of £235; and Jon Cruddas (Dagenham and Rainham) (Lab): I think in Oxford, the figures are £80 and £150. In more than that I now have two hours and eight minutes in which to half of all areas, shared accommodation rates are about speak on the single room rate—only joking. This debate one third or more lower than one-bedroom LHA rates. dovetails with the last debate on benefits uprating, as Everyone will admit that those are very high losses often happens with Adjournment debates, purely by from a very low baseline. Currently, the maximum accident. Today, we have also seen one of the most award of local housing allowance—housing benefit in dramatic overhauls of welfare reform in this country. I the private rented sector—is only £107 per week for a want to make a few comments on the likely consequences one-bedroom property, and that falls to just £69 for of changes to the shared room rate, sometimes known SRR claimants. Obviously, that is before other cuts to as the single room rate, proposed by the Government. I housing benefits kick in, which will reduce those rates do not do so simply to make party political points, but even further. LHA rates will drop from the 50th to the because I am concerned about specific, substantive 30th percentile of local market rents from April, and consequences that might emerge for many young people many 25 to 34-year-olds will therefore suffer a double in this country. My comments echo those contained in a wave of cuts and, arguably, have no other choice but letter dated 2 November to the Minister for Housing to move. and Local Government from 16 of the country’s leading For example, a 33-year-old on the Wirral is currently organisations providing housing and support services eligible for the one-bedroom rate and will receive £91 a to homeless people. week in LHA. The LHA cut will bring the one-bedroom Today we have seen a significant change in the rate down to £86 per week, but from that point they will Government’s proposed housing benefit reforms, with be eligible only for the SRR, which is expected to be the removal, supposedly, of the 10% reduction for those £56 a week, meaning a accumulative overall cut in the on housing benefit after one year on jobseeker’s allowance. local housing allowance of some £35 a week. Cuts at I suggest to the Minister that he might like to signal that level will be replicated throughout the country and another change on the proposed benefit regulations. I leave single adult households with unaffordable shortfalls doubt that that will happen, but I know that he will give in their rent. Many will have no choice but to move to thorough consideration to my points. cheaper accommodation. Crucially, however, owing to The shared room rate currently applies to single a lack of shared accommodation, many will be unable people under 25 on housing benefit in the private rented to find a single room and be forced to remain in more sector. Local housing allowance claimants who are single, expensive self-contained accommodation, creating further under 25 and without dependants are currently eligible shortfalls, the risk of eviction and, possibly, homelessness. only for sufficient LHA to cover the rent of a single room in a shared house, rather than self-contained Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): Does my accommodation. Under measures announced in the hon. Friend agree that the proposed changes will have a comprehensive spending review, the threshold for the subsequent impact, increasing homelessness especially shared room rate will be increased to 35 years of age in areas where people already find it difficult to get from April 2012. All single, childless adults under 35 will accommodation? see their LHA cut from the current one-bedroom rate to the SRR. The Government estimate that 88,000 people Jon Cruddas: That is one of the points that I want to will be affected by this change. address in the long time that I have to develop my The Department for Work and Pensions housing arguments. benefit statistics show, however, that in August 2010 Some 75,000 people claim SRR, so the change will 120,000 single people aged 25 to 35 years old were more than double the number of claimants, placing claiming LHA. The Minister might want to comment significant further pressure on the limited existing pool on that in his response, because it means that if the of shared properties. According to housing charities proposal goes ahead an additional 120,000 people will that deal with the homeless, the vast majority of people be competing for shared accommodation. That will be affected by the change will lose their current an issue not just in inner London, as we often hear in accommodation; and they will have to go somewhere. It the House during debates about housing benefit changes, is unlikely that landlords will accept such significant or even in outer London; the evidence suggests that it reductions in rent, or that someone on a limited income will affect tens of thousands of young—actually, not will be able to make up such shortfalls. To confirm what that young—people up to the age of 35 across the my colleague just said, tens of thousands of people length and breadth of this country. currently in self-contained flats will therefore be forced We know that the SRR causes considerable problems to seek shared accommodation, or they will arguably for young people, with many unable to secure or sustain become homeless. affordable accommodation and left facing shortfalls, There is simply not enough shared accommodation arrears and homelessness under the current regime. available. Current claimants already struggle to find an According to the housing charity, Crisis, the average affordable property, with DWP figures showing that loss will be £47 per week, with some people seeing their some 67% face a shortfall between their benefit and benefit entitlement literally halved. their rent, averaging out at £29 per week, compared 1217 Housing Benefit17 FEBRUARY 2011 Housing Benefit 1218 with 49% of all LHA claimants. On anyone’s account, stay in a self-contained flat, but this is unlikely to be that is a significant amount for people on a low income, possible or appropriate in shared accommodation. When and it will cause problems such as debt, arrears and parents live some distance away, that could mean that homelessness, which all MPs will undoubtedly witness they are unable to maintain contact with their children. every week. Pregnant single women may have to return to a shared This change, as my hon. Friend the Member for property with their newborn, precisely at the point Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) said, is likely to when moving can be financially and physically unrealistic. cause more homelessness, including, in the worst instances, At a time of rising youth unemployment, this change rough sleeping. Apart from the impact on individuals, it risks penalising young people even further. Those under is extremely costly to the public purse. Crisis estimates 25 already face a lower rate of jobseeker’s allowance that the annual cost of homelessness per person is and are therefore likely to struggle to make up even between £9,000 and £41,000 per year. small shortfalls between the benefit and their rent. For vulnerable people who have been homeless or are Competing with older tenants will make it even more leaving supported accommodation, care or prison, sharing difficult for them to secure affordable accommodation. is particularly inappropriate and can be extremely What about the impact on communities and houses detrimental to their well-being. Currently, the only in multiple occupation? This policy may increase the exemptions from the SRR are young care leavers aged number of HMOs in deprived areas at a time when under 22 and those who receive the middle or higher-rate some local authorities are using recently introduced care component of disability living allowance for people powers actively to tackle the prevalence of HMOs, who are severely disabled and need a carer. Other people which are often poor-quality properties run by unscrupulous with serious disabilities or illnesses, mental health or landlords. behavioural problems, or who are vulnerable in other ways, will not be exempt and will be expected to share We should also consider the problems facing benefit accommodation—a situation which, in many instances, recipients when searching for housing. Claimants can will be inappropriate, as professional advisers argue. struggle to access shared accommodation, even where it does exist. Adverts for shared property are the most As regards homeless people and those leaving an likely explicitly to bar benefit claimants. Research by institution, 20 to 35-year-olds are already disproportionately Shelter suggests that as few as 7% of tenants in shared likely to end up sleeping on the streets, while 27% of accommodation would let a spare room to a benefit rough sleepers in London are aged between 26 and 35, claimant. Many house-shares are reluctant to let to and 36% of Crisis’s clients are in the age group affected benefit claimants because of real or perceived problems by this change. The change will place significant barriers with the benefits system, such as delays in processing in the way of breaking out of the cycle of homelessness payments and the practice of paying benefit in arrears and undo progress that has been made by formerly when rent is payable in advance. homeless people who have now secured private accommodation. Charities working with young homeless The arguments that I have put forward have been people are often unable to move them into appropriate technical, but it is useful to demonstrate the possible accommodation because of the SRR, and this problem consequences in human terms, so I will report a number must increase, all else being equal, as more people are of case studies of single, homeless men that have been restricted to the lower rate. A Crisis survey of schemes brought to my attention this week by various housing that help people to find private rented accommodation charities. The first is the case of a man with trust and found that the low level of the SRR was the biggest gambling issues who moved from supported policy concern. accommodation to a self-contained flat: There are consequences for hostels, too, as costly “He is working with a Tenancy Sustainment Team. He has always tried his best to work and LHA has supported him a little beds will become blocked with people unable to move due to the low pay he is receiving. Moving him into shared on. For offenders leaving prison, sharing can be particularly accommodation would place him in severe hardship.” inappropriate. There is already a problem with individuals under 25 bed-blocking probation hostel places because Another case study is of of the SRR, and that problem is likely to increase under “A man with mental health issues, trust issues and who suffered the current proposals. It should also be noted that those from abuse as a child. He struggles to be around people.” convicted of serious offences are disproportionately He, too, moved from supported accommodation to a likely to be in the same cohort of those aged about 25 to self-contained flat and is supported by a tenancy 34, and for many, sharing with others poses particular sustainment team. The case study continues: risks. Reoffending costs the economy £13.5 billion annually, “To move him into shared accommodation would no doubt but stable accommodation reduces the risk of reoffending place him in either a homeless situation…or end up in prison.” by some 20%. That is the advice of the professionals. What about people with mental and physical health problems or dependency issues? For these groups, sharing Another case is that of a young man who was moved can cause particular problems, as they may have particular on from supported accommodation: needs in relation to the type of accommodation that “His main goal was to get accommodation so that he could they can occupy or find it very difficult to get on with bond with his child. He has anger issues and works with a other people. There are fears that other difficulties such Tenancy Sustainment Team worker. His child can now come and as bullying could result. People with dependency problems stay with him at his home from time to time. To move him to may have a negative effect on others in a shared property. shared accommodation would affect the arrangements with his child that he waited so long for and could well place him back on Moreover, we should consider parents or expectant the streets or lead him to abandon his accommodation. He mothers. Non-resident parents who want to maintain a struggles to support his child with the little money he has at good relationship with their children can have them to present.” 1219 Housing Benefit17 FEBRUARY 2011 Housing Benefit 1220

[Jon Cruddas] lead to inappropriate sharing situations, and suitability and security problems, and it can affect the sustainability Another case is that of a 24-year-old who has had of a tenancy. Supportive evidence is provided by the one custodial sentence for a sexual offence and has Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which has analysed the breached his licence on more than one occasion: SRR and the views of claimants. It says that “He is currently in a hostel having resided there for three and a “the prospect of sharing with strangers was a source of considerable half years, but due to pressure…he is having to be moved on. anxiety” Probation are unwilling to allow him to reside in a shared house and due to the risk he poses to females. Probation have advised that should he move into a shared house his offences have to be shared “having to share with older people was noted to be particularly with the landlord and fellow tenants, which means this could put daunting, especially for female claimants.” his safety at risk.” I tentatively suppose that the Minister will put forward Another case brought to me this week is of a 27-year-old a second argument: that landlords will lower their rents client who is a sex offender. He has been living in a or people can be supported by discretionary housing probation hostel and is ready to move on. He is vulnerable payments. The Government have argued that people and requires ongoing, floating support. He needs self- might be able to renegotiate rents, but, given such contained accommodation because of sharing issues, significant losses in entitlements—some could be halved— particularly if females live at the property, visit it or stay that hardly seems likely. With our housing department, with other tenants. I have done a survey of letting agencies and the current Another client has bipolar disorder and suffers from state of the housing market in our local borough. In the periods of extreme depression and paranoia. He is very cheapest housing market in Greater London, there is no concerned. He has been sectioned a few times and is evidence of a lack of demand for such properties, and worried about it happening again. He is being discharged therefore no evidence of a downward flexibility in rents and is having to return to a shared house. He finds in our communities. I tentatively suggest that that is others knowing about his condition very uncomfortable probably the case around the country. because there is still prejudice and misunderstanding The Government also make the case that they have about mental health issues. All those cases are concrete increased the discretionary housing payments budget to examples of the consequences of the reform that have help local authorities to give additional support where been brought to my attention in just the last few days. they consider it is needed. However, the amounts are What is the Government’s rationale for the change? I insignificant. Our borough is, I believe, the fastest-changing will anticipate the Minister’s response slightly by offering community in Britain because of the dynamics of the a few reasons that he is likely to give. First, there city’s housing market. It is the lowest-cost housing appears to be an argument that many young people market in Greater London, with the lowest rents, but it share houses and that, everything else being equal, has taken the strain of the city’s demographic shifts in many benefit recipients should therefore also share past 10 years. In total, I believe that we will receive some houses—thus the change to the single room rate. The £120,000 of that discretionary money, but I tentatively Government will also argue that the age of the first-time suggest that that will not quite be enough because of buyer has risen. Although that may well be the case, it is the extraordinary flows of people caused by the broader not true that large numbers of people share properties. housing benefit changes proposed by the Government. In fact, 2% of people share properties with someone I therefore suggest that the argument that the who is not a relative or a partner. If the changes come discretionary housing payments are significant enough in, 17% of those on local housing allowance will be in to allow for the system to bed in does not stack up. shared accommodation. Indeed, over a four-year period, the total DHP pot is People who are not on housing benefit and who do £190 million. That is intended to help both those who share, such as young professionals in this city, do so currently experience a shortfall and those affected by all largely out of choice so that they can live in a better of the changes to the housing benefit system. To put location, live with friends or have more disposable that in context, the Budget announced £1.8 billion of income to save for a deposit to get into the housing cuts to housing benefit, and estimated a further £215 million market. It is simply not the case that the same characteristics saving from changes to the SRR. apply for housing benefit recipients. What is more, The third argument that the Minister might come up people who are not on housing benefit have access to a with goes something like this: some LHA claimants much greater pool of properties because, as I have said, chose to live in shared accommodation, so there cannot many landlords will not let to benefit claimants. People be that much of a shortage. Indeed, some housing who are not on housing benefit generally have a choice benefit claimants do choose to share when they are in about who they live with, which is rarely available to fact entitled to live in self-contained accommodation. people on lower incomes. For some people in some areas, sharing is appropriate, Many who share accommodation by choice in the particularly if they have friends they can share with or if private rented sector will do so with one or two others. they were in a shared property before needing recourse Largely, that will be more expensive, and so unaffordable to housing benefit. However, it is quite a different on the SRR, claimants of which are therefore likely to proposition to ask 120,000 to leave their current have to share with larger numbers of people, with a accommodation and try to find a shared property. higher turnover of tenants, and with little or no choice In conclusion, I urge the Government to rethink over with whom to share. Unlike students or young raising the SRR threshold, or at the very least to delay professionals, who tend to share with people whom they the measure to give local authorities time to ensure know or who have similar backgrounds, people on that there is sufficient housing stock to meet the housing benefit often share with strangers, which can increased demand for shared accommodation. I urge 1221 Housing Benefit17 FEBRUARY 2011 Housing Benefit 1222 the Minister to reflect on what Centrepoint says when Why are we introducing this measure? As the hon. he considers the consequences of some of the changes Gentleman said, the thinking behind the under-25s rate that I have outlined: is to save money and have a level playing field for young “If young people are not supported to access affordable move-on people on benefits and other young people on low-paid accommodation, they will be forced to access expensive emergency jobs who commonly will share accommodation. For the and supported accommodation for longer periods. This failure to under-25s, the figure is about 45%. That means that progress can lead to young people losing confidence and re-engaging about 45% of single, non-student—students would in destructive behaviour patterns”. obviously bump up the figures—childless people who While achieving savings in the short term, the proposed are under 25 and not on benefits are in shared changes could lead to greater costs to the taxpayer in accommodation. That is our control group. He might the medium to longer term. I urge the Government to ask what the figure is for 25 to 34-year-olds. The answer rethink. is 40%. He used a figure of 2%, and I have seen that number, because when I saw the crisis briefing, I thought, “Oh my goodness, 2%”. However, it turns out that 2% is 4.44 pm the answer to a totally different question—it includes all tenure types and all ages. The appropriate benchmark The Minister of State, Department for Work and is that roughly two in five of the sort of folk we are Pensions (Steve Webb): I congratulate the hon. Member talking about, and who are not on benefits, are sharing. for Dagenham and Rainham (Jon Cruddas) on securing The question is: what is the appropriate level of support this debate. It is the second debate of his to which I have from the taxpayer? Should the taxpayer pay the full cost responded in the House, and he raised his issues in a of a self-contained flat for a 29-year-old, when many thoughtful and measured way. I think that the House of their contemporaries would be living in shared appreciates that. accommodation? That is the thinking behind this. This is a welcome opportunity to consider the shared If, therefore, this measure leads to shortfalls, and if accommodation rate. Many of the other aspects of renegotiation of rents is a limited option, what alternatives housing benefit reform have been aired quite extensively, are available? I have mentioned the limited exemptions, but this one has perhaps been a bit overlooked. It is particularly for vulnerable people. The hon. Gentleman important to focus on that and the potential implications. downplayed the role of discretionary housing payments I want to reflect on the proposition: what is now known rather more than I would, so let me explain why. The as the SAR currently applies to under-25s in the private discretionary housing benefit budget is increasing nationally rented sector, and is based on rent levels for accommodation from £20 million this year, to £30 million next year and where at least one room—for instance, a kitchen or a to £60 million in each of the following three years. It is bathroom—is shared. The spending review has being trebled compared with the year just ending. However, announced that, from April 2012, it will be extended to we will not spread the money incredibly thinly across under-35s. Furthermore, as the hon. Gentleman the whole country, but focus it where it is most needed, acknowledged, there are exemptions for those in certain and the impact of the SAR is one of the things that will vulnerable situations. There is also the issue of discretionary dictate where the money goes. I cannot forecast what his housing payments, to which I will return, because he local authority will get beyond next year, but clearly raised some important questions. London authorities as a whole will get a significant Clearly, one reason for introducing this measure is to proportion of that increase—I strongly suspect that it reduce the budget deficit. It is worth noting, therefore, will be more than the national average increase. that it will save £130 million in housing benefits in 2012, There is a case for saying that discretionary housing rising to £225 million in 2013. There are two ways of payments are the right approach, whereas using broad looking at that: it is a lot of people, but it is also a categories of people probably is not. The hon. Gentleman significant amount of money for the Exchequer. It is mentioned a whole set of people, but what was striking not done lightly, but it is an important contribution to about his individual examples was how individual they the Department’s efforts to rein in the budget deficit. were. We do not necessarily want to say that every On the number of people affected, the hon. Gentleman ex-offender should have support, but to consider particular mentioned the figure of 120,000, but that is the answer situations. Clearly, we need some block exemptions for to a slightly different question. We think that the figure the most vulnerable—we have that—but discretionary will be in the order of 80,000 to 90,000. Those are the funding should be used in specific circumstances to ease sorts of numbers we are talking about. He is right that some of the examples that the hon. Gentleman gave. the shortfalls, particularly in London, will be significant. Whereas with some of the caps—certainly the 30th percentile Discretionary housing payments are clearly a top-up, —in some cases the shortfall will typically be £10 a week which are not meant to meet the whole rent. Housing or less, such shortfalls will be very different. The sorts of benefit is already doing much of that, and discretionary examples and figures that he gave are available on the housing payments cover the shortfall. The hon. Gentleman internet. Other than in exceptional cases, it is unlikely says that £120,000 is not much. Off the top of my head, that people will make up the shortfall from their spare a shortfall of £20 a week means a £1,000 a year, so the cash. I take his point entirely that the shortfalls will be sum covers 120 people. It does not sound like a huge significant and that, although there might be occasions amount, but it will treble across the country and can on which tenants can renegotiate their rents, that will help some of the vulnerable groups that he mentioned. probably be the exception rather than the rule. Although There is a question about the options for young he kindly tried to write my speech for me—I was writing people. The hon. Gentleman pre-empted one of my furiously all the good points he made—I am not going points, but I shall make it again anyway. He rightly to say, “We don’t need to worry, because landlords will pointed out that quite a few young people have chosen— just slash their rents”, because that is not realistic. some have freely chosen but others may have felt constrained 1223 Housing Benefit17 FEBRUARY 2011 Housing Benefit 1224

[Steve Webb] their homes as affordable rents to low-income groups such as nurses and students. Under the scheme, home because of availability—to live in shared accommodation. owners and tenants who let furnished accommodation Even though they are over 25 and the benefits system in their own homes are exempt from income tax on would pay for a self-contained flat, they have chosen rental income of up to £4,250 a year. They receive relief shared accommodation. on the rent and tax relief on meals, goods and services, We think that nearly half the local housing allowance such as cleaning and laundry. As people who get less cases that are currently assessed under the shared than that amount do not have to tell HMRC, we do not accommodation rate would be entitled to higher rates if know exactly how many people benefit from the scheme. they lived in separate accommodation. Nearly half the However, we have survey data from the family resources people to whom we pay the shared accommodation survey, and roughly 130,000 landlords do not pay tax rate—that is what they get if they are in shared on their rental income under the scheme. accommodation—do not need to be in shared The situation is very dynamic, and as young people accommodation because of the benefits system, but are start to realise that they cannot get benefit for a flat on there anyway. I must admit that that surprised me. their own and start to look for lodgings, another family Clearly, that is not all about choice. It is partly about who may have lost income through redundancy or loss availability, but it again suggests that what we ask is not of overtime in these difficult economic circumstances quite as unreasonable as perhaps it might seem at first might wish to let out their spare rooms. So the availability sight. changes over time. There are tentative signs of a new When considering that group’s characteristics, there supply of shared accommodation. Indeed, in east London, is a question about how soon they can support themselves there is some suggestion that the housing benefit cap and not be on benefit. Clearly, a shortfall of £30 or will mean that larger family homes will be converted £40 is difficult but manageable for a short period for into shared accommodation. I take the hon. Gentleman’s many people, if they have been working, but difficult to point about HMOs, and I will come back to that in a sustain for a long time. That group tends to have minute. Clearly it does not solve the problem for those relatively short jobseeker’s allowance durations. If we families, but in the context of this debate it could mean consider the 25 to 49-year-olds, for which data are three or four new single rooms will be available for readily available, we estimate that around 60% of that young people. The situation is dynamic and changing. group have been on JSA for less than six months. The hon. Gentleman raised the issue of delay or Clearly, after six months of a shortfall, someone is well cancellation. Although the change starts in April 2012—on out of pocket. However, although there might be a current plans—it would kick in on the anniversary of a shortfall at a point in time for quite a few of those claim. So someone who starts a claim in November people, many might have a reasonable expectation of 2011 would have it renewed in November 2012. The getting back into work and then being able to afford position will not change all at once on a single day so their rent in self-contained accommodation. that everyone turns up at the local hostel saying, “I’m There is a question about what their options are if homeless.” There will be a gradual change and people they decide not to carry on in free-standing accommodation. will start to explore other opportunities. They will know One option for some will be living with mum, dad or that the change is coming—we are talking here in late family. The hon. Gentleman and I both well know that 2010-11—and there will be a chance for new supply to it is not a perfect solution or something that works for come on stream so that people can think about their people who have irreparable family breakdown. It is not options. We are keen not to do these things suddenly a blanket solution. However, in general, that age group—I because we recognise that people will need time to think they are called the boomerang generation—are adjust. doing precisely that. Many 28-year-olds and 31-year-olds The hon. Gentleman mentioned some of the problems are back with mum and dad or family. Perhaps they are of HMOs, and the Government recognise that those saving for a house, and they have made the decision to need to be handled carefully. He will know better than stay with family because it is cheaper and they can put most that HMO licensing is mandatory for houses of money by. Should we ask the taxpayer to pay for some more than three storeys housing five or more persons. 29-year-olds and 31-year-olds to have a flat of their Local authorities also have discretionary powers to own, rent fully paid, when others have to live with mum extend licensing to small HMOs where they have identified and dad and save the money? Again, it is a balance of problems with management or property condition. This fairness. Living at home with the family is not an option is known as additional HMO licensing. Local authorities for all, but it will be for some. The hon. Gentleman will be able to impose conditions on those licences, such talked about bonds with family and their breaking as requirements for occupation by a set maximum number down—I do not know what living with your mum and of people or the provision of adequate amenities. Fines dad at the age of 31 does to you, but it will be an option of up to £5,000 can be imposed for breach of a licence for some. At a time when money is tight, it is not an and letting a property without a licence is a criminal unreasonable thing to ask young people to include in offence subject to a fine of up to £20,000. That is not to the range of options that they consider. suggest that everything is perfect, but the Government There is also an important issue, which is underestimated, are aware of the problems. about being a lodger. Again, I take the hon. Gentleman’s Since April last year, there has been a general consent point about individuals with particular needs. Her Majesty’s for local authorities to introduce this additional HMO Revenue and Customs runs a special scheme called licensing and they do not need permission from central Rent a Room. It was introduced in 1992 to boost the Government to do it. If councils think it necessary in private rented sector and was designed specifically to their area—such as the hon. Gentleman’s area—they encourage individuals to offer spare accommodation in have those additional powers to crack down on rogue 1225 Housing Benefit17 FEBRUARY 2011 Housing Benefit 1226 landlords. It is important to point out that sharing a we are drafting a specification for the monitoring. The house with a few other people is not synonymous with idea is that the results will be published. slum accommodation and rogue landlords. Both versions We recognise that these are significant changes, and are out there, and we want to encourage the provision that there will be people who are adversely affected; that of good shared accommodation and drive the bad guys is why we have trebled the discretionary housing payment out. budget. The hon. Gentleman was absolutely right to The Department has always planned to monitor the raise his concerns about that group, and it is something impact of these changes, but when the other place that we are looking at carefully. I thank him for bringing considered the housing regulations it was agreed, after the matter to the attention of the House and reassure discussions with Lord Best, that there would be full him that we take seriously the points that he raises. independent monitoring and evaluation of the housing Question put and agreed to. benefit reforms. I assure the hon. Gentleman that we are committed to comprehensive review of the changes 5pm to housing benefit, some of which will come into effect House adjourned. from this April. That will include independent, comprehensive primary research that looks at the effects on different types of households in a range of areas including London. The evaluation will cover a whole list of things, including homelessness and moves; the CORRECTION shared room rate and HMOs; the impact on Greater London; black and minority ethnic households; landlords; the housing market; and the labour market. To update Official Report, 16 February 2011: In col. 1111, the House, we have just completed an expression-of-interest after “McKinnell, Catherine” insert “McLoughlin, exercise for potential contractors for the research, and rh Mr Patrick”

341WH 17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 342WH

release the existing fleet to newly electrified projects in Westminster Hall the north-west. She spoke a moment ago about the need for certainty in the rail industry. I am sure that she—and, I hope, the House—will sympathise with the concerns Thursday 17 February 2011 of the thousands of my constituents who work for Bombardier and in the supply chain, who are anxiously [ALBERT OWEN in the Chair] awaiting the go-ahead for the Thameslink project. Mrs Ellman: I thank my right hon. Friend for her Rail Investment comments and I agree with her sentiments. The delay Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting is problematic in its own right, and it certainly has be now adjourned.—(Miss Chloe Smith.) consequences for what is termed the cascading of rolling stock to the north, among other places. The major 2.30 pm redevelopment of Birmingham New Street and Reading stations is proceeding. Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): I am pleased to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): I reinforce the I am delighted to have the opportunity to discuss rail strong point made by my right hon. Friend the Member investment in this Westminster Hall debate. I welcome for Derby South (Margaret Beckett). We must do everything the Minister to her place; I shall be listening carefully to that we can to maximise the possibility of keeping what she has to say. manufacturing in Britain. Bombardier, a British-based The Transport Committee published its report on firm, should be considered for that if we are serious priorities for rail investment in February 2010, during about rebuilding our manufacturing base. the previous Parliament. The Committee wanted to assess the value of investing in Britain’s rail network Mrs Ellman: My hon. Friend makes an important and to identify essential rail priorities for the future. We point. He reinforces the important link between rail emphasised the importance of protecting Government investment and jobs. funding of £16 billion committed to rail projects between Electrification that was planned long before the 2009 and 2014. We also identified some of the emerging comprehensive spending review is going ahead, but priorities for the next control period, from 2014 to 2019. only in part. I am pleased that the Government have confirmed the electrification of the Manchester-Liverpool We should remember that rail is a great success story; line and the line from Preston to Blackpool. However, 1.2 billion passenger journeys were made last year, and there are still problems with the electrification of the 100 million tonnes of freight, or 9%, was carried by rail. Great Western main line. The Committee emphasised in its report the importance of rail to the economy, as well as to the environment. Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab): On top of the There have been many changes since the report was other hammer blows that Wales has suffered under this published last year. We have had a change of Government Government—the cancellation of a prison in north and a comprehensive spending review, but the questions Wales, the cancellation of plans for a Severn barrage raised by the Committee and the priorities that we and the loss of jobs at St Athan—comes the fact that identified remain highly relevant. I shall focus on two electrification of the line to Wales will not go ahead. broad areas this afternoon. First, I shall deal with the My hon. Friend will be aware of the great disappointment Government’s more immediate rail priorities during that that has caused, and the damage that it will do to this Parliament. Secondly, I shall look ahead to some of Wales’perceived image in the rest of the United Kingdom. the important rail schemes that will require investment during control period 5 and beyond. Mrs Ellman: I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. Following the comprehensive spending review, I am Indeed, electrification has been promised between London pleased to say that many major rail investment commitments and Didcot, Oxford and Newbury; but there is no have continued. Indeed, £18.2 billion was committed promise and no confirmation of electrification of the for that period. Although I welcome that commitment line into Wales. In December, the Secretary of State told and that scale of investment, we should recognise that us that discussions were ongoing with the Welsh Assembly much of that money was already contractually committed, Government, but what will happen is still unclear. I and works on the ground for many projects were well share my hon. Friend’s concerns about the impact of under way prior to the spending review. Setting out the delay—is it a delay or a postponement, or is it a priorities and committing spending in that way was cancellation?—on the Welsh economy. In addition, the done to ensure that the rail industry had some certainty ongoing saga about inter-city trains has implications about investment, and I am glad that that could be for electrification on the line, to which I shall refer later. achieved even in the current financial situation. The The Committee’s report also advocated the electrification Government have confirmed their commitment to Crossrail of the midland main line that links Sheffield and London. and to Thameslink, although there are delays and reductions It is unclear what progress is being made there. It is in funding. clear that enhancing our rail network represents a worth- while investment of public funds, with economic Margaret Beckett (Derby South) (Lab): I congratulate regeneration and environmental benefits. The comments my hon. Friend not only on her Committee’s report but of my right hon. and hon. Friends reinforce that point. on securing today’s debate. I am particularly glad to It is not only investment that is important. It is hear her mention Thameslink. The report mentions equally important that we secure value for money for investment in the north, but she will be well aware that it the public purse. The previous Government asked is the order of new trains for Thameslink that will Sir Roy McNulty to study the rail industry and to 343WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 344WH

[Mrs Ellman] None the less, will she not accept that although rail fares can rise by that amount, they will not necessarily consider how to secure better value for money. It is do so? unacceptable that our rail industry is up to 40% more expensive than its European comparators, as the Office Mrs Ellman: I do not totally agree with the hon. of Rail Regulation discovered. Sir Roy published his Gentleman, and I will explain why in a moment. My interim findings in December 2010. Promisingly, he has concern is that it now appears to be a deliberate Government identified potential savings of up to £1 billion, which he policy to drive people off rail by increasing fares. Indeed, believes can be achieved without cutting services. Like it seems rather perverse. It is true that Government the rail industry, my Committee awaits Sir Roy’s final policy is to increase fares by an average of RPI plus 3% . report with great interest. Certainly there is a mood for I must stress, though, that that is not an actual increase; change, and it is important that the Government seize it is an average. The reality could be a rise of RPI plus this window of opportunity to make improvements. 8% for individual fares, which is a very great increase The interim findings of the McNulty review suggest indeed. For example, the annual season ticket between that the way forward is a greater alignment of incentives Bournemouth and London would increase by £211 at between the different players in the industry. The RPI plus 3%, but by £645 if RPI plus 8% was applied, Government have already set up a high-level group with which is possible under the Government’s formula. the industry to examine the options for Network Rail Current forecasts for the third quarter of 2011 are and train operators to work together more efficiently. I that RPI could be 3.9%, the base against which RPI for would be grateful if the Minister were to elaborate on the following year is assessed. That means fares could the options that the Government are considering, and rise by an average of 6.9% in 2012, with individual fares whether those aspirations will result in real long-term increasing by up to 11.9%. Those are significant increases savings to the industry, without compromising passenger and a matter of great concern. We all recognise that safety or service provision. there are economic and financial problems, but it is The Secretary of State has promised a White Paper disturbing to think that there could now be a national on the future structure of the industry, following the policy to price people off rail. I look forward to hearing findings of the McNulty review. I hope that it will spell the Minister’s response to that concern. out the Government’s broad longer-term strategy for the rail industry. Do the Government share the previous Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): The Government’s aspiration that increasing capacity on the hon. Lady is making an excellent speech. No one wants rail network must be at the heart of their strategy? As to see fares rising, but the economic reality is that if we passenger numbers and the amount of freight carried are to continue investing in the railways, we must increase by rail continue to grow, we need to increase capacity. fares. Does the hon. Lady not think that if we are As right hon. and hon. Members know, the issue of moving from the retail prices index to the consumer overcrowding remains a serious problem on parts of the prices index, fares should increase by CPI plus 3% rather network, particularly at peak times. Overcrowding is a than RPI plus 3%.? consequence of success and must not be ignored, and neither must its related health and safety issues, which Mrs Ellman: The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting are often hidden. point. We must all recognise economic constraints, but we have to consider seriously the implications of any Giving evidence to the Committee in October 2009, policy that might price people off rail. the Office of Rail Regulation forecast that passenger numbers would double over the next 25 to 30 years. The Minister of State, Department for Transport Alleviating capacity constraints must be at the heart of (Mrs Theresa Villiers): I hope that I can give the hon. any strategy on the future of the rail network. Will the Lady some reassurance. Of course we want to see Minister tell us something about the White Paper that is passenger numbers increase. That is important for our expected soon? What sorts of policy initiatives will it economic future and for our environmental policies. We contain and what kind of consultation will it be subject to? have had to take a difficult decision on fares in order to The Committee recognised that rail was important deliver the vitally needed rail capacity improvements. for the environment, economy and regeneration. I was As we are dealing with an enormous deficit that we concerned to see that in January, when the Department inherited from our predecessors, we have had to ask published its report “Public Attitudes towards Climate passengers to pay a bit more to contribute towards the Change and the Impact of Transport”, it did not mention investment that they want to see put into the railways. rail. I hope that that was an unfortunate omission. None the less, I would like some reassurance from the Mrs Ellman: I thank the right hon. Lady for her Minister that the Government recognise the environmental comments. I recognise the Government policy context benefits of increasing rail travel. in which these decisions are taken. I come now to the important issue of rail fares. The Let me now draw attention to the issue of rolling Government have announced that regulated rail fares stock. If people are going to be asked to pay more for will rise from RPI plus 1% to RPI plus 3% from 2012 to their fares, it is reasonable to ask whether the rolling 2015. Disturbingly, they have stated that train operators stock will be adequate to ensure that people have a should actively look to manage overcrowding through reasonable journey. The more people pay, the more the fare box; in other words through increasing fares. concerned they will be if the rolling stock is not adequate. The situation is extremely confusing. The announcements Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I am reluctant made by the Department for Transport on what rolling to correct the hon. Lady as she is giving an expert stock is to be provided, where and when have been explanation of the Select Committee’s point of view. unclear. 345WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 346WH

When our Committee issued its report last year, we The particular project that we recommended in our expressed deep concern at the postponement in issuing report was the northern hub. That bottleneck in the the rolling stock plan for 1,300 new carriages that were Manchester area critically affects the operation of both expected by 2014, and at the uncertainty and confusion passenger and freight services right across the north of the delay was causing within the industry, but we recognised England, including in Leeds, Liverpool and Newcastle. that the commitment to electrification legitimised the The Northern Way study concluded that addressing the pause in assessing exactly what rolling stock was required northern hub could provide economic benefits worth and when. However, since then, little real progress has up to £16 billion for the economy of the north. been made in delivering new carriages. Instead, we Investing in the northern hub remains as important recently received another announcement by the Department as ever. However, there is particular concern about that that 2,100 new carriages would be delivered by 2019, issue, because of what has happened to the organisations 1,850 of which will be net additional vehicles. As my that brought the project together. The combined work right hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Margaret of the three northern regional development agencies Beckett) said, many of these are for the Crossrail and was very significant in developing the project, costing it Thameslink projects, which will then lead to electric and working out its implications and benefits. Sadly, the carriages on the network being cascaded to other parts project for the northern hub—the Northern Way project— of the country, including the north. If and when that may no longer be supported because the RDAs are happens, I hope that it will not be a matter of the north being disbanded. Indeed, it is very unclear what will getting the cast-offs from the south. I expect the stock happen to the organisation that has developed and to be in good condition and well suited to meet the costed that project in such great detail. I would be very needs of the people in the north. pleased if the Minister could confirm that she will Given that the completion dates for both Crossrail support that project as a top-priority project for the and Thameslink have been delayed to 2018, will the north in the period ahead. Minister tell us when these much-needed carriages that The longer-term investment priority is the development the industry has been waiting for, will finally be delivered? of a high-speed network. Our Committee welcomed the How many of those carriages expected by 2014 will previous Government’s change of policy when they actually be delivered by that date? decided to support high-speed rail. However, we emphasised that investment in high-speed rail should not detract Mr Leech: Does the hon. Lady not accept that the from investment in the existing classic network. Moreover, previous Government did not have a good record on if high-speed rail is important for the route from London delivering on promised rolling stock? to Birmingham—as the current Government have stated, and I agree with them—it is equally important that it Mrs Ellman: Indeed. The hon. Gentleman may recall extends to the north. that previous reports of the Transport Committee during the time of the previous Government were not slow to The case for high-speed rail has been put forward, criticise the inadequacies of the Government where we based largely on the need for additional capacity for felt it was appropriate to do so, and rolling stock was both passengers and freight. That argument is very one of those areas. We also have the ongoing saga of the important, but it is also very important that the economic new generation of InterCity trains. In November, the impact of high-speed rail is recognised. Indeed, the Government announced that they had narrowed their Government have said as much many times. They have options for the replacement of the old InterCity 125s said that their support for high-speed rail is based on down to two: a bid from Agility Trains for a mixture of the need to reduce the disparities between north and electric and hybrid trains; and a proposal for a fleet of south. That means that if high-speed rail goes ahead, as all-new electric trains that could be coupled to new I hope it will, it must go beyond Birmingham to the diesel locomotives where the overhead electric power north. lines end. I know that many of my colleagues in Wales are anxious for that decision to be made because of the Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): impact that it will have for the Great Western main line Does the hon. Lady accept that there are concerns to Swansea. Again, the Government have not been very about whether High Speed 2 is necessary to achieve the clear about what is happening regarding that line and I capacity increases that are so badly needed between would be grateful for any clarification about it. London and Birmingham? During the next control period, which is between 2014 and 2019, and beyond, it is extremely important Mrs Ellman: I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. that we have continuing and substantial investment in That is an important issue and indeed it is extremely the rail network, improving it to accommodate passenger important that the Government spell out their case very growth and to alleviate unacceptable overcrowding. One clearly on the need for HS2, particularly given the of the priorities for the next control period must be considerable opposition to HS2 from a number of quarters. investment in the rail infrastructure in the north of The Government must do that. England. Our Committee’s report shows very clearly Finally, my Committee has recently returned from a how the south, particularly London, has benefited from visit to Brussels where we met the Transport Commissioner, rail investment. We support that investment, but we European Commission officials and Members of the noted in the report that when we examined the amount European Parliament, including members of the Transport of transport investment per head we found that there and Tourism Committee. One of the subjects that we was three times as much in London and the south-east discussed was the UK’s failure to apply for funding as in other regions of the country. We support investment from the European Union. We received information in London and the south-east, but similar interest should that suggested that the EU might be willing to part-fund be shown in the needs of the north. the cost of feasibility studies into HS2, paying 50% of 347WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 348WH

[Mrs Ellman] Member of Parliament for the north of England, I recognise that regional development agencies had their those costs. However, it appears that no application has faults and their problems. They were by no means been made for Trans-European Transport Networks, or perfect organisations, and they needed immediate reform. TEN-T, funding, which could part-fund the costs of I agree with the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside looking into HS2. Indeed, when members of my Committee that one area where they made a contribution was the questioned the Minister recently in our inquiry into quality of the transport planning that they provided European issues, it appeared that the UK was rather through the Northern Way project. I have had the slow, or perhaps loth, to apply for European funding. I pleasure of meeting representatives of that project time wonder if we could receive some assurance from the and time again. The quality of the work that they have Minister today that the Government will look at that done was one reason why the Government’s infrastructure issue again, particularly the possibility of securing European announcements for the north of England went down so funding for studies into the viability of HS2. well, and I have genuine concerns about the quality of Deciding the priorities for rail is a very important policy making if the Northern Way does not find a task. Our Committee’s report was produced a year ago, niche within the new Government structures. but it is clear that the priorities and concerns that we The north is different, and this is not just special highlighted are equally relevant today. I hope that this pleading or the usual carping about London getting all debate today will help to take the debate on rail priorities the transport money. We know that there is a substantial forward and help to secure increasing investment for the productivity gap between the north and the south of extremely important service that is our rail network. England. I recognise that London is our national capital—a global capital, if anything—and that it needs substantial Albert Owen (in the Chair): Before I call Mr Paul public investment, but we cannot overlook the fact that Maynard, I wish to inform Members that I will ask the north has, over many years, been getting a raw deal Mrs Ellman to make some concluding remarks. rather than its fair share. The hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) 2.56 pm suggested earlier today that I read his book on how to Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con): be a Back Bencher. I have learned one essential truth so It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, far, which is that it is only when an MP is bored of Mr Owen, as it is to follow the Chair of the Transport talking about an issue that he knows he has got his Committee, the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside point across. With some trepidation, therefore, I shall (Mrs Ellman), whom I hold in great esteem. discuss the northern hub. It is also a great pleasure to discuss the Transport When the report was first published, the northern Committee’s report on rail priorities. It is not one that I hub was still the Manchester hub, and I take some have any personal responsibility for, as I had not been pleasure in having played a role in getting it renamed, if elected to Parliament when it was drawn up. None the only to reflect the fact that it benefits the whole of the less, priorities for rail investment is a worthy topic for north of England and the north of Wales from Anglesey debate, not least because of the amount of public to Newcastle. The northern hub is not only a building in money that our railways consume. We have a democratic Manchester, but a series of discrete projects that unlock duty to ensure that that investment is properly apportioned. the potential of the rich, dense rail network that exists For me, the sacred text in this area remains the across the north of England, and it is vital that it goes Eddington report, which the previous Government ahead. I welcome all the positive indications that we commissioned and which included several pertinent have had so far from the Minister. Every time I have points. In particular, when prioritising investment bored her and the Secretary of State by asking about it, Sir Rod Eddington stressed that we needed to focus on I have got a nod and a wink that it will be in control three main areas, namely congested urban areas and period 5, and I ask once again for that to be restated. travel-to-work areas, key inter-urban corridors and key We have to realise that whenever we discuss inter-city international gateways and hubs. All three were coming travel in the UK, for those of us who are London-centric under pressure from increasing congestion and the or come down here all the time, north-south journeys associated unreliability. matter, but for business men in my constituency and As the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside pointed across the north of England, east-west journeys are just out, a lot has changed since her Committee’s report was as important. People in Manchester occasionally need published. We have a new Government—we even have a to go across the Pennines to Leeds and even further to new MP for Blackpool North and Cleveleys. We have Newcastle. Sometimes, my constituents want to go to also had welcome confirmation from the Government the north Wales seaside, because they have had enough of the importance of infrastructure investment. Amid of Blackpool—surely not. East-west travel matters, and all the talk of spending reductions, I was pleased to the Council for the Protection of Rural England backs learn that many of the feared cuts that we were all told better trans-Pennine rail links, although I am not sure were coming down the line did not materialise and that whether it would do so with HS2. important projects such as electrification are continuing, Kelvin Hopkins: I strongly agree with the hon. which is welcome. It is also true that the issue of Gentleman’s view about east-west links being equally high-speed rail has assumed a much greater importance important. Does he agree that it is vital to keep the in our political discourse, and I will discuss that issue in Woodhead tunnel for future transport use and not let it more detail later. be poisoned by having electricity cables put through it? One aspect of policy making has been diminished The previous Government arranged for that to happen, since the election, which is regrettable—maybe this is a and I hope that the present Government will continue misinterpretation on my part; I do not know. As a to preserve the tunnel for future transport use. 349WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 350WH

Paul Maynard: As with all matters relating to rail face on our inter-city trains are analogous to those freight, I bow to the hon. Gentleman’s superior knowledge, experienced by animals, even if their end destination is and would not dare trespass on it for fear of being perhaps more pleasant. shown up as an ignoramus. I shall discuss HS2, because it is so controversial and Mr Leech: My hon. Friend has mentioned that he cannot be avoided. The arguments are difficult, and uses the west coast main line regularly, as do I. The whichever side of the argument someone is on their trouble is that if the number of west coast main line policy must be evidence based, because it is only through trains from Manchester to London were increased from an evidence base that the politics of the proposals can three to four an hour, it would have a detrimental start to be addressed. I recognise that there are arguments impact on local services. That is why high-speed rail is on both sides. As a northern Member of Parliament, so important in ensuring that we can maintain local and I see immense potential benefits, but I am sure that if I inter-regional services as well as the inter-city ones. were an MP in an area affected by the proposed route, I would have enormous concerns. It is, however, dangerous Paul Maynard: The hon. Gentleman has anticipated to base our argument solely on a few simplistic notions. my next point. I take entirely the point that the network Building the railway will not in itself heal the north-south of high-speed rail that has been mapped out links areas divide, and it is foolish to base the argument on that with a high concentration of service industries, which is soundbite alone. It is equally dangerous to base it on key to saying that the predictions for demand are more saying that there will somehow be magnificent robust than they were, for instance, in Spain, where environmental benefits by domestic aviation being rendered Madrid and Seville were linked. Seville had a high level unnecessary. At the moment, we cannot see even one or of heavy industry but no service industry, so no demand two years ahead in our domestic aviation environment, occurred. let alone 15 to 20. Who knows where Heathrow will be I want to make a number of other points before by then? concluding and allowing as many hon. Members as possible to participate in the debate. May I make a plea Martin Horwood: The evidence from other high-speed to the Minister on open-access rail? We have just seen rail systems around the world is that where they are over the sad failure of the Wrexham and Shrewsbury service, sufficient distances—which, admittedly, probably means which was a good example of open access, but it failed further than Birmingham—there is something like an to make money. There are other examples around the 80% drop in air traffic over those distances. London to country, such as Grand Central, which have shown that Paris is a good example. open access can work. I urge the Minister unambiguously to state her support for open access in the forthcoming Paul Maynard: I agree almost entirely with that point— White Paper, and indeed today, because many open but perhaps only 80%. It very much depends on where access companies are uncertain about their future. In someone is flying from and where they are going to, and Blackpool, open access is perhaps our only chance of I suggest that in 15 years’ time perhaps no one will be getting a link to London. I urge her, therefore, to make flying domestically to Heathrow, if only because it some positive noises on open access. might have ceased to be an international hub. We might all be flying to Paris, Amsterdam or Frankfurt, but that In conclusion, whenever we write reports, there is is another matter entirely. always the temptation to come up with a wish list, and I have fallen into the trap myself today by highlighting The key variable in the discussion on HS2 is demand. the northern hub. Wish lists are easy to make, but it is Whether demand will increase is contested, but as someone far harder to have a discussion and come to a view who travels regularly on the west coast main line, I about how to prioritise policy making. How do we know full well that that line is already reaching capacity. reconcile all the different competing local priorities that The east coast main line is also struggling, and we we each have in our constituencies with the apportioning cannot have people being herded into pens at Euston of public money? That is not easy. station on a Friday evening and say that we are not at capacity already. I accept entirely the argument that extra capacity has to be provided, but it is not simply a Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): As a north Wales matter of expanding a few platforms here and inserting MP, my question concerns the extent to which there a few carriages there, making cattle class a literal concept should be a recognition of the economic impact of for millions of travellers. We have to discuss what type railway investment, and to what degree the investment of capacity to provide, and I realise that that is perhaps should take regional variations into account. My a confused area for people on both sides of the argument. understanding is that investment in railways does not, for example, take into account investment in Wales, so Mr Tom Harris (Glasgow South) (Lab): The record we cannot even compare investment in Wales with will show that the hon. Gentleman has just referred to a investment in other parts of the United Kingdom. literal cattle class. I hope that he will take time to Should we have a system that allows us to identify examine exactly what that means. When I was in a investment in Wales as a percentage of overall investment previous position and people used to challenge me in the railways? about whether it was right to treat humans in the same way as cattle, I was always quick to point out that the Paul Maynard: It is important that we have more cattle’s final destination was somewhat less enjoyable local decision making. It is easy to say such things, and than Paddington. we all do—we all talk about localism now—but we have to realise that it is not a case of build it and they will Paul Maynard: I accept the hon. Gentleman’s point, come. We recently heard evidence about Stratford but the conditions that many passengers are forced to International rail station, which has no international 351WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 352WH

[Paul Maynard] that went everywhere. However, ours is a relatively small, densely populated country, and given that funds rail services. Merely building transport infrastructure are, inevitably, limited, there is, as Eddington suggested, does not guarantee passengers or even economic growth. a considerable opportunity cost involved in spending Those involved in local government often place too money on HS2 rather than other things. It would also much hope in signature schemes, which they spend be expensive. public money on promoting. They tell us that those I think I can also make the case that HS2 is not schemes will be transformational, but, 10 years down absolutely essential to provide the transport that we the road, they are shown to be nothing of the sort. need. We need lots more investment in existing passenger We need more innovation. Yes, it is easy to say that, routes. Improvements to existing routes could make an too, and we all do. Small local schemes—a passing enormous difference to their capacity. There are a number place here, a passing place there, a slightly longer platform of problems on the east coast main line. There are two somewhere else—can be cost-effective ways of increasing tracks at Welwyn, and we need another viaduct so that capacity. However, priorities also need to be decided at we can have four. That bottleneck causes serious problems, the regional and sub-regional levels, as well as at a and that would be the case particularly for high-speed national level. We have an increasingly complex and trains, especially during peak hours of commuter traffic. dense map of economic decision-making organisations. We therefore need another viaduct at Welwyn. We have travel-to-work areas, city regions, local enterprise Further north, we need a flyover where the Cambridge partnerships, strategic transport partnerships and smaller, trains branch off at Hitchin. We need passing loops at micro-local organisations. One of the best transport Peterborough and a flyover at Newark. If we had those, submissions that I have ever seen came from a body we could have 140 mph non-stop working between called Upper Calder Valley Renaissance. It was incredibly King’s Cross and Edinburgh if we chose to. Indeed, in powerful and full of good ideas, with a real understanding 1992, a trial run was undertaken between King’s Cross of the local transport economy, but it covered a micro-area. and Edinburgh, with a two-minute stop at Newcastle. I make a plea to the Minister to somehow grasp that The journey was done in three and a half hours based nettle. We have a profusion of expertise out there, which on a standard operating speed of 140 mph, so these enables us to make good quality, evidence-based decisions things can be done. It is interesting that the proponents at local level. I despair when I hear the Department for of HS2, looking into the future, came up with a time of Transport arguing the toss over the siting of a vending three and a half hours for services between King’s Cross machine on a platform at Crewe station, because that and Edinburgh—exactly the same time as was achieved has nothing to do with the Department. However, the in 1992. Department has a role to play in ensuring that rail We need new signalling and higher running frequencies. investment decisions are based on the greatest economic We can have much higher frequency running if we have benefit and that proposals are evidence based. We can modern signalling. One problem is that we have 50-year-old then worry about the politics. signalling systems. Geographical interlocking signal boxes were installed in the 1960s and they are now out of date 3.12 pm and need replacing. With modern signalling, we can achieve higher frequencies and faster throughput. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. It is also Guto Bebb: As a Welsh Member, I would be fully in a pleasure to follow the good speeches that we have favour of electrifying the south Wales line. As far as the heard so far, especially from my hon. Friend the Member north Wales coast line is concerned, the hon. Gentleman for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), who is the Chair is completely right that signalling improvements could of the Transport Committee. I have been a member of make a huge difference to the frequency and speed of the Committee for the past few months, and I have services, and that would be critical to the area’s economic much enjoyed that time. success. I am a passionate lover of, and believer in, railways. Even when they were unfashionable, I still believed that Kelvin Hopkins: Indeed, and that is true not just of they would be the transport of the future. I suspect that north-south routes, but other routes, too. they will outlive the internal combustion engine and Unfortunately, we have a lot of ancient equipment on possibly even air flight and that, however far ahead we the railways. It was worthy in British Rail’s time, but we look, there will still be railways. I have a real interest in have moved on. One problem with privatisation is that passengers and freight, and I would like to think that I companies have no great incentive to improve investment have some informed proposals to make. in such things when they are trying to run as profitably I should declare some interests. I am the chair of the as possible with existing equipment. Some people, including ASLEF group of Members of Parliament. I am also a Eddington, suggest that capacity on main lines could be member of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and doubled with modern signalling and more frequent Transport Workers group, and my constituency fund running. We could have trains every 180 seconds on received RMT donations before the last election. However, those routes if we get the modern signalling. the views I express today have nothing to do with We have heard a lot about extra rolling stock. In the anyone else—they are purely my own—and I would like short term, there are more than 100 unused carriages in to think that I have given them sufficient thought to Ireland. They are essentially Mark IIIs, and they could make them worth while. be immediately imported, re-bogied and used on main Like Eddington and others, I am somewhat sceptical lines in Britain. Actually, they are more modern than about HS2. That is not because I would not, in the best our Mark IIIs because they have automatic doors, of all possible worlds, want a superb high-speed line rather than slam doors. They could be bought cheaply 353WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 354WH now and installed quickly on our routes. That is a what our scheme is about. As I have said, I have no short-term fix—obviously, we want more investment pecuniary interest in it. I have been passionate about it and more rolling stock to be built, particularly by ever since I heard about it some years ago, and I have Bombardier—but we can make such changes. spoken on many platforms. I took a team of people to On the west coast main line, the maximum operating see Geoff Hoon when he was Secretary of State for speed will be 130 mph because there are tighter curves Transport; they included representatives of supermarkets, than on the east coast main line. However, 130 mph Eurotunnel, the rail constructors and AXA—the insurance operation with modern signalling and high-frequency giant that funds terminals. There were 15 of us. I think trains would still be sufficient, particularly if we got that we answered every question put to us adequately. freight off the lines. That brings me to my next proposal, We could not persuade the Secretary of State then, which is to get freight off the lines. Those who know me but I hope that the present Government may listen well will know that I have been proposing for a long sympathetically, at least. time that we have a dedicated freight route from the What I propose could be done very cheaply. We have channel tunnel to Glasgow, which would link all of a precise route, which would involve only 14 miles of Britain’s main conurbations. Why do we need a dedicated new route, nine of which would be in tunnels. The route freight line? When it comes to existing freight routes, would, as I have mentioned, use the Woodhead tunnel. passengers and freight do not mix. They have different The rest would be on existing under-utilised routes and operating speeds and so on. Time and again, when there old track bed. Initially we put a cost of £4 billion on it. is a bit of a problem with a passenger train, the freight One of the rail constructors said it could do it for trains will be parked on one side while the passengers £3 billion. We are now being generous and suggesting are given priority—people get much more upset than £6 billion; but that is still one third of what we propose freight when they are delayed. Of course, freight operators to spend on Crossrail—which I also support. Nevertheless, get upset, but they have to suffer. However, if we have a our whole scheme, with its 400-mile route, would cost a dedicated freight line with no passengers, we would third of what we are to spend on Crossrail, and would overcome those problems. be commercially viable, because of the amount of traffic on it. Mr Leech: The hon. Gentleman has been a long-time supporter of a dedicated freight route, but is it not Mr Tom Harris: Just for the record, and so that we possible, with the onset of a High Speed 2 line, that the are talking about exactly the same figures, is my hon. extra capacity on the existing network would be enough Friend aware, when he talks about the scheme costing a to provide extra routes for freight movement? I totally third of what Crossrail does, that the Government’s agree that we need to move more freight from road to funding of Crossrail is less than £6 billion, and is a third rail, but with the onset of an additional, high-speed line of the total? there would surely be enough capacity on the existing mainline networks to provide the necessary service. Kelvin Hopkins: Indeed. I suggest, although I am a public investment person, that the scheme I am describing would attract outside investment. Already, at the meeting Kelvin Hopkins: The hon. Gentleman raises the point with Geoff Hoon, AXA said it would fund the terminals. that I want to address now. The problem with putting It already does that. The prospect would be commercially more freight on such routes is that it would be impossible viable. We suggest it would take 5 million lorry loads off to fund the provision of sufficient gauge. It would be the roads. prohibitively expensive to make all the tunnels, bridges, Finally, the scheme would make a massive difference platforms and so on able to take freight. We must have to carbon emissions. Heavy freight taken by road produces trains these days that are capable of taking full-scale 12 times as much CO2 per tonne-km or tonne-mile as containers—that is W10—and I suggest a scheme that freight taken by rail. Even lighter freight produces six to could take full-scale lorry trailers on trains. Hauliers eight times the amount. That is a massive carbon saving would put their trailers on the trains and they would be from rail. Every tonne we put on to rail makes a taken straight through from Glasgow to Rome, or Rome substantial saving in CO2 emissions on those 5 million to Glasgow. I have spoken to the logistics managers of lorry loads a year on a 400-mile route. That would also big companies and asked whether they would like to transform the links between the northern economies bring their water, wine or whatever from Bordeaux, and the continent of Europe and breathe new life into which is a favourite town of mine, to Birmingham. the northern, Welsh and Scottish economies. It would They say it would be wonderful—fabulous—to send it not just be about the south-east. At the moment lorries all the way on the train. What they do now is train it to must get through the treacle of the south-east. With a the coast of the continent and then put it on lorries. through, dedicated rail freight route we would overcome That transit would become unnecessary. They could roll that problem. It would be of enormous benefit to a trailer on in Rome or Bordeaux and roll it off in colleagues who represent northern constituencies. Instead Birmingham or Glasgow. of being peripheral to the core of the European economy The problem with trying to upgrade all the existing they would become part of the central European economy, routes for freight is that there would have to be a which would benefit them and the country enormously. through-operation for continental freight trains. They are larger gauge and cannot get through our platforms, 3.24 pm because they are wider, or through our tunnels or under our bridges, because they are taller. Certainly we could Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): I want to express never have lorry trailers or double stack containers, as to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) we are suggesting. To get serious volumes of freight my appreciation for the work of her Committee in through, a dedicated freight route is needed, and that is producing its report, and providing us with the opportunity 355WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 356WH

[Duncan Hames] Further electrification of the national rail network is to be welcomed. Electric trains are cheaper, faster, greener to debate an issue that is vital not only for our railways and more reliable than their diesel counterparts. They but our economy and environment. The report identifies transport a greater number of passengers, and since nine priorities for rail investment in control period 5, they are lighter and cause less infrastructural wear and from 2014 to 2019. I want to address three in particular: tear their operating cost is roughly half that of their rolling stock, to deal with capacity constraints, electrification diesel equivalents. The Great Western main line, which and operational strategy, such as new signalling technology. clearly is not anticipating the benefits of High Speed 2, I do not expect the Minister to make my constituents a has one of the strongest cases for electrification. I national priority, but I make no apology for pursuing welcome the Transport Secretary’s announcement before their interests, which enables me to show the wider Christmas that the line from Paddington would be merit of the proposals in question for the rest of the electrified as far as Didcot, Oxford and Newbury. I country. understand the need to make decisions about powering future inter-city services, which have delayed decisions Any debate about major infrastructural investment about the rest of the line. However, I ask the Government decisions needs to take a long-term strategic view, and to bring forward their proposals for further electrification should include all parts of the supply chain for the of the line, to give the rail industry, businesses and industry. It is a matter of concern that no such long-term passengers alike the certainty that they need to plan for strategy exists in the rail industry. We do not want to the future. risk directing public funds to the wrong projects, or to poorly timed projects, in an unco-ordinated way, as it is I have two more points to make on the matter. First, I costly and inefficient to stop and start again. Nor is it a ask the Minister that electrification should not just be good idea to subject major transport investment schemes on the line to Bristol Parkway, but also the line through to the vagaries of political, or even economic, cycles. A Chippenham and Bath to Bristol Temple Meads. Secondly, new planning framework, extending beyond the current I suggest that it would be of benefit to extend the five-year planning process of the Government and the planned electrification of the line to Newbury as far as Office of Rail Regulation, setting out a clear vision for Westbury. Westbury is not only a more logical network investment, covering a period of as much as 25 years, staging post on the line from Reading but a useful would go a long way to combating that short-termism. interchange for many journeys, and it was identified by Longer franchises are also a necessary component of Network Rail as needing investment during the next longer-term planning. Suppliers would be able to invest funding period. with more confidence, particularly in the arena of On operational strategy, one investment priority that technological innovation. The lack of a long-term strategy provides opportunities but has not received as much currently makes it difficult to research and develop the attention as others is new signalling technologies. That technologies that ultimately save travellers time and is unfortunate, as smart signalling technologies could taxpayers money. secure serious improvements in efficiency, environmental The Committee identified the Manchester hub as a performance and capacity within any given infrastructure. top priority for control period 5. I would not want to Invensys Rail, headquartered in Chippenham in my detract from its observations, but a similar logic applies constituency, is an internationally renowned company to Bristol and its travel-to-work area. Bristol is the at the forefront of developing control and communications biggest city outside London in the south of England technology. On the potential environmental wins of and the eighth largest in the United Kingdom. From a smart signalling, the European rail traffic management commuter perspective, on Brunel’s railway, Bristol looks system, which Invensys is helping to implement, could like an attractive proposition, which it is as long as enable a 46% reduction in carbon emissions from rail people do not mind how full or late their train to work transport by 2030. The system creates wireless connections might be. Network Rail’s Great Western route utilisation between trains and control centres, which would be a strategy, which was published a month after the Transport step change from current infrastructure on our railways. Committee’s report, identifies Bristol’s rail capacity at The links can be used to measure energy use and send peak times—and, indeed, the performance there—as instructions to trains to reduce their consumption whenever key gaps that will be in need of attention and investment possible. However, the technology would have to be in control period 5. Bristol Temple Meads, in particular, embedded in both rolling stock and track-side infrastructure, is a pinch point on the network, and passenger numbers which would require joined-up organisation and long-term are projected to grow by 37% by 2019. That will result investment. in passenger delays, which are already among the worst To take advantage of such technology, we must develop on the network, increasing by more than a third. a more strategic view of the rail supply chain. It is a The route utilisation strategy isolates several key good time to begin that process. The McNulty value-for- regional services that are suffering severe overcrowding money study is nearly complete, and the Transport and on which investment in extra carriages will reap Secretary is establishing a high-level group to examine significant benefits for capacity and connectivity. For the railways’ future further. example, five extra vehicles on the Cardiff to Portsmouth Firms such as Invensys have an important role to line, which passes through Bradford-on-Avon in my play in advising policy makers on the potential of new constituency, would make it possible to provide two technology. They are not just a shop window from extra services in every morning peak, and three each which we pluck impressive bits of kit. Their technology evening. Just one or two carriages from the humble has been developed in response to the needs of rail 153 class, allocated to the trans-Wilts line, would also systems around the world. As a result, they have reduce the number of passengers in congested Bath, accumulated expertise that can make a valuable contribution who only want to get across Wiltshire. to discussion of the future of the UK network. I was 357WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 358WH pleased that the Minister accepted my recent invitation constituents. I would argue that neither Denton nor to visit Chippenham in order to see for herself the Melksham deserves to be left any longer in such a innovations spearheaded by Invensys. I look forward to plight. welcoming her to Wiltshire in due course. I know that other Members want to speak, so I will Among the investment priorities identified by the conclude. I have tried to use examples local to my Transport Committee’s report are several examples of constituents to illustrate a few national discussion points low-hanging fruit—good value, small-scale projects that about the future direction of rail investment. Each would not involve the major infrastructure developments region, area and sector of the industry—indeed, each of high-speed rail or the complexity of fixing regional Government—has had its own priorities for the future, bottlenecks. In that respect, the report echoed Eddington’s but we are discussing substantial investment commitments finding that smaller-scale transport interventions are that will far outlast this Parliament, the political careers often the most cost-effective solutions and acknowledged of many of us and the current economic cycle. Rail that many small but growing communities around the planning has too often been characterised by short-termism country could reap substantial benefits from better and a lack of strategic vision. The coalition Government’s access to the rail network. I wholeheartedly agree, as my stated belief is that constituency has two good examples, the towns of “a modern transport infrastructure is essential for a dynamic and Melksham and Corsham. entrepreneurial economy” I have made several appeals in Parliament on behalf and that of the campaign for an improved service on the trans-Wilts “we need to make the transport sector greener and more sustainable.” line, which runs from Swindon to Salisbury via I could not agree more, and I do not think that any Chippenham, Melksham and Trowbridge. Members can Member here would depart substantially from that find out more about it on the website transwilts.org.uk, view. It is certainly consistent with the Transport Committee organised by the community rail partnership. Melksham report that forms the basis for this debate. Our challenge is the fourth largest town in Wiltshire by population, yet is to take a long-term strategic view, interact with all its rail service is derisory, consisting of just two trains a players in the rail supply chain, engage with the businesses day at times that are, frankly, useless for residents and communities that use the railways and align our hoping to commute by train. objectives for rail planning with wider economic and The trans-Wilts line was well used until the current environmental aims. Great Western franchise began in 2006, when the previous Government dropped the requirement to provide a 3.37 pm decent service on the route. As I pointed out to the Mr Tom Harris (Glasgow South) (Lab): I have been Secretary of State in November when he announced involved with the railway industry to a greater or lesser 650 carriages for the network, just one extra carriage degree for the best part of 20 years now, but I have allocated to the line could provide more services at never suffered the ignominy of going native. When I economically meaningful times of the day, connecting was the Minister with responsibility for railways—the the county’s population centres and alleviating pressure Minister is welcome to use this joke if she wishes, on commuter lines in the Bristol area. Demand for the although most of her audiences will have heard it a service is strong, and it is supported by the local business number of times from me—I used to joke that although community, Wiltshire council and other local Members I had succumbed to the lure of the railways and started of Parliament, co-ordinated by an excellent campaign buying railway magazines regularly, I was always careful group, the Trans-Wilts Community Rail Partnership. In to buy a copy of Playboy and put the railway magazine recent weeks, 1,500 people and 150 businesses have inside it to avoid embarrassment. completed a survey on the website about how they There is a healthy turnout of right hon. and hon. would use a better service on the line. Members here. It says something about the lure of the In my correspondence with the Minister, I have received railways that 80% of our constituents do not use them—I some encouraging signs from the Department about the expect that it is more than 80% in most constituencies—but trans-Wilts campaign. Once more, I ask her to examine the subject attracts and engages Members of Parliament. closely what benefits could accrue from such locally I suspect that most of us receive more letters a week driven initiatives. Colleagues will forgive me, I am sure, from our constituents about railways than about motorways for going to such lengths to make the case for my or local roads, despite the fact that roads are a vastly constituents. They might want to consider what I will more popular mode of transport. call the Melksham challenge. Can they identify a settlement larger than Melksham—it has more than 20,000 people— Kelvin Hopkins: Are the railways regarded as a national with an open station that has a passenger rail service as treasure like our forests? poor as our two services a day each way? I believe that it is an exceptional case. Mr Harris: I will refrain from trespassing on the Government’s sadness at this juncture. Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): I am Although I do not stand every weekend with a flask sorry to disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but the town of tea, a pair of binoculars and a camera at the end of of Denton, which I have the privilege to represent, has a the platforms at Glasgow Central, I am, if not an population of 32,000, an open station and one train a enthusiast, a strong supporter of the railway industry. I week, in one direction only. congratulate the Government, because most of us feared the worst when this shower came in. Duncan Hames: I stand corrected. I hope that the In the previous Parliament, the Labour Government hon. Gentleman will appreciate the opportunity that I did a great deal to invest in the railways to try to have given him to make the case on behalf of his improve the services that our constituents rely on. The 359WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 360WH

[Mr Tom Harris] years, if it is given an infinite amount of money by every country in the European Union, be able to go into figures show that we have the largest number of passengers operation. It is the kind of global positioning system travelling on the railways, apart from during the wartime that would help provide railways with a satellite navigation period, since they began. We also have the best safety system in future, provided that it is accurate enough, record and there are more services running per weekday which it is not yet. Perhaps Galileo, if it is given an than at any time in the history of the railways. There infinite amount of money, might be able to provide that was concern upon the arrival of the new Government, solution. whose Ministers seem unable to speak without using Value for money is crucial to the railways. My hon. expressions such as, “Cleaning up the mess left by the Friend and I are members of the same party, but I hope previous Government,” and talking about deficits and that he will not object if I say that we come from so on. We assumed that that would be a simple mechanism different parts of it. We have a different view of who and excuse for starving the railways of investment. owns the railways and whether public or private ownership However, I must say, in all seriousness, that that has not is the right way. I shall let you conclude for yourself, happened, and I am delighted about that. Mr Owen, which side I fall on and which side my hon. I am also delighted about the Government’s commitment Friend supports. I do not think it matters much whether to High Speed 2, and I regret that my own Government Network Rail is publicly or privately owned. The fact is only saw the light on high-speed rail in the latter part of that the McNulty review on value for money is absolutely their period in office. That was a mistake, and I accept crucial, if we are going to identify ways to cut the costs my own personal responsibility for not pushing it as of the railways. hard as I could have done when I had the opportunity to do so. I was the Minister who saw through the Kelvin Hopkins: McNulty has concluded that our Crossrail Act 2008, so I am delighted that Crossrail, as railways cost up to 40% more than continental railways well as Thameslink, will be fully funded. There is a lot to run. The only major difference between them and us to celebrate in relation to the railways—there always is that they are publicly owned and integrated, while we has been, even at the most difficult times in the network’s are privately owned and fragmented. I have made that history. We have now had two successive Governments point to the Secretary of State, who did not strongly who seem to have a genuine commitment to growing the disagree. network. On procurement, my right hon. Friend the Member Mr Harris: I am grateful, as always, for my hon. for Derby South (Margaret Beckett), who is no longer Friend’s intervention, but I disagree with him. Network present, mentioned that the manufacturing base of the Rail has had imposed on it an obligation to improve its railway industry in this country is, sadly, significantly efficiency and make significant improvements year on smaller than it has ever been. She mentioned Bombardier year. I do not believe that it is a failing organisation, or in particular. I totally understand the pressure that that it matters whether it is privately or publicly owned. Ministers are under in relation to procurement and an I am glad, however, that the Secretary of State has open procurement process throughout the European thrown out any pretence that Network Rail is a private Union. The Minister will be aware, and she will have company, inasmuch as he does not seem to care whether been told by her officials, that certain European countries the National Audit Office will, with the stroke of a pen, somehow manage to get around the procurement rules commit Network Rail’s debt to the public books, which and, miraculously, give very large and helpful contracts Ministers in the previous Government went to great to their domestic manufacturers rather than to foreign lengths to avoid. The Secretary of State has taken a competitors, which is something that Britain has, sadly, more relaxed, and probably more sensible, approach. never managed to do. By the end of this year, Network Rail may well be I do not expect the Minister to deviate from her categorised as a nationalised company. However, if it is line—I understand the legal ramifications, if she were not efficient and is not doing the job, does it really to say that she agrees with me in any respect at all—and matter who owns it? We must get efficiencies back into I do not even expect her to mention this when she the railway industry, and we must make sure that the makes her summing-up speech, but she will find very public purse, which is asked to pay a significant amount little, or no, opposition from my party if she could find of the cost of the railway industry, is getting value for a way of making it easier, within the rules, for British money. That is the way to restore people’s trust in the manufacturing companies to be given the same kind of railway industry. contracts that foreign companies get from their own In the run-up to the general election, the Labour Governments. If she has that fight with the Treasury, Government had a much greater willingness to look at she will have my full backing. longer franchises. The franchising process itself costs Luton is very well represented on the Transport huge amounts of money, not only for the competing Committee, and my hon. Friend the Member for Luton companies but for the Department for Transport. The North (Kelvin Hopkins) made a point about signalling, figure of £5 million is often quoted as the cost to the which is absolutely crucial. I will not labour the point, Department, and the longer the franchise, the less often because he made it very well, but, given that there is no that cost has to be borne. Recently, I had an interesting commitment to building new lines outside HS2, if we conversation with an ex-civil servant, who shall not be are to get more trains more frequently on the existing named. He told me that the reason why seven years was network, the only way of increasing capacity is to invest seen as the best period for railway franchises to begin in new signalling. When we were in Brussels last week, with—from 1995, when the railways were privatised—was we heard about the ongoing Galileo project. It is a new that they would start in 1995 and end after the first term satellite system that might, in a couple of hundred of an unpopular Labour Government, at which point, 361WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 362WH the Conservatives would be able to come back in and passenger experience, that is how we partly move towards look again at the franchise system. But things did not a situation in which we develop better value for money quite work out that way. Seven years is clearly too short for the passenger. a period, and some of the franchises that have been let recently are, for practical reasons, even shorter than Kelvin Hopkins: One of the problems is that the that. I hope that we move to a longer franchise period railways are long-term and expensive and private companies of, perhaps, a standard 10 years, with a two or three-year have short-term balance sheets. Inevitably, the tendency extension, depending on performance. is to sweat the assets to maximise profit in the short I will mention open-access and freight operators in term and leave long-term considerations to others. the same breath, because those two users of the network are entirely free of public subsidy of any kind. Open-access Mr Harris: That is undoubtedly that case, but I do operators are, in my view, a good thing. That may not not accept that that is necessarily an immovable barrier be the view of certain officials in the Department, but to innovation. Network Rail is the greatest purchaser we should welcome a private company if it can come in and procurer in the whole of the industry and it works and run a profitable passenger service between two in the long term. Frankly, many of the manufacturing points without seeking any public subsidy, without taking companies that rely on contracts from Network Rail any of the revenue from existing franchises, and without want to deal in long-term investment and want a long-term causing any delays to other franchises or to freight reassurance that the work will be there 10 or 20 years operators. I am disappointed that the Wrexham, Shropshire down the line. If the will is there, innovation can happen and Marylebone railway finally shut up shop at the end and, as I have said, that is irrespective of whether the of January, which was a great blow to those people who industry is privately or publicly owned. used it. I say to my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, I shall say a few words about High Speed 2. I have Riverside (Mrs Ellman), who chairs the Transport long been a supporter of the project, although not on Committee, that open-access operators are of great environmental grounds. As Rod Eddington said in his interest to the wider railway and to the travelling public. 2006 report, there may well be a case for high speed on I hope that, at some point soon, we will have the capacity grounds, but there is probably not an environmental opportunity to look at the whole open-access framework case. In addition, there is probably not a great case in in order to think about what makes open access valuable, terms of connectivity, because Britain is a relatively what makes it work and, crucially, what makes it fail. small country and is already pretty well connected. My hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside However, there is a case for high speed on capacity has mentioned fares, and I hope that the Minister will grounds. When we get letters and complaints from our address that issue when she speaks. When Lord Adonis constituents, apart from fares, capacity is the burning was Secretary of State for Transport, he made an instruction issue at the moment. It has been for a number of years to the train operating companies that resulted in a and will continue to be until we do something serious radical change from previous practice. As has already about capacity. HS2 will relieve capacity on the west been said, the retail prices index plus 1% fares annual coast main line, and I hope that it will do something for increase was interpreted in a very generous and broad freight as well. way by the train operating companies. The highest I worry about the debate that is developing in this increase had to be RPI plus 1%, but the train operating country on HS2 and that supporters of it are dismissing companies would take a basket of fares. Within that out of hand the concerns of people who live along the basket, there could be reductions and increases by up to line and colleagues who represent communities based RPI plus 6%. However, Lord Adonis said that all regulated along the line. I hope that we can conduct that debate in fares must be increased by a maximum of RPI plus 1%. a more consensual and less provocative manner. That took away a lot of manoeuvrability and flexibility from train operating companies, who obviously had a Mrs Villiers: The hon. Gentleman is too pessimistic vested interest in increasing season tickets and other when he says that the supporters of HS2 dismiss the fares by more than RPI plus 1%. There may well be concerns of local communities. As far as I know, the vast perfectly valid reasons for moving away from that approach. majority of supporters of HS2, including the Government, If possible, will the Minister say something about where take those concerns very seriously. We believe that we are now and what effect that policy has had during significant efforts need to be made to mitigate what will the past 18 months or so? inevitably have some local impact on communities. Innovation does not sound as if it is directly related to priorities for investment, but the issue comes back to Mr Harris: I accept the Minister’s reassurance on value for money. The criticism made by my hon. Friend that. I simply speak from the point of view of reading the Member for Luton North of the privatisation of the reports of the debate that is going on. I am not trying to railways is entirely valid in the following respect. It is separate the arguments; I am trying to bring people the only privatised industry in which innovation virtually together. I make the point that people’s concerns are disappeared—from the point of privatisation until now. not down to nimbyism or the fact that they are selfish or In almost every other industry that was intrinsically somehow anti-public transport. People have valid concerns, profitable and was therefore privatised, innovation which can be overcome. HS2 is a nationally important flourished. However, that has not happened in the strategic piece of infrastructure that must go ahead for railway industry. I tried to do something about that the good of the country, but we cannot sweep those when I was the Minister, but there is very little that the concerns under the carpet. I have heard the Minister say Minister and the DFT can do, because it is up to the that those concerns will not be swept under the carpet, industry. If there is a level of innovation that can and I therefore hope that between now and when transform the processes within the industry and the construction starts, we can come to some kind of agreement 363WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 364WH

[Mr Tom Harris] Bridge. That is in the development stage at the moment and I hope that all the work that has been done by the and compromise. We need to accept that those concerns local authority—Leeds city council and the private are absolutely valid and that people have a perfect right investors—will be recognised and that the Government to protest and raise concerns about something that will look favourably on providing the funding for this might well have an adverse impact on their local important project, which will help to relieve some of the environment. I thank you for giving me the opportunity most congested roads in Yorkshire. to speak, Mr Owen. I would also like to talk a little bit about rolling stock. In 2007, the White Paper suggested that Northern Rail 3.56 pm would need approximately 182 carriages. It has not Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): As a good Anglesey received a single one of them, so I was delighted to hear lad, may I say what a pleasure it is to serve under your the announcement that carriages will be made available. chairmanship, Mr Owen? I congratulate the hon. Member I would just like to make a plea. In the north, we seem for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) on securing the to suffer in that regard and getting third hand-me-downs debate. I will try to be as brief as possible because I would be better than nothing. We have had absolutely know that other hon. Members are keen to contribute nothing in the past, so we would be happy with that. to this important debate. Enhancing our rail network is Looking at future Parliaments, I am in danger of something that will benefit all of us in all parts of our probably upsetting my hon. Friend the Member for country. South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom), for whom Even in these very difficult financial times, it is good I have an enormous amount of respect, because we are that the Government have shown their commitment to on opposite sides of the argument about HS2. My hon. our railways. The billions of pounds that they are Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys investing are to be welcomed. I am particularly glad to made a valid point—we must take on board the concerns see that there is a rebalancing of the amount of money of hon. Members. I am glad that Ministers have taken being spent on transport projects across the country. the time to visit communities that are affected and will Other hon. Members have spoken about national projects, probably not see the benefits of HS2. For the north, but I shall be unashamedly parochial and talk about my however, it will a significant boost. I was delighted when region. Obviously, I have to speak up for the north of it was announced that it would beaYroute. That is England, particularly Yorkshire and Leeds. hugely important to Yorkshire. If the other suggestion On the comment of my hon. Friend the Member for had been chosen, it probably would not have been Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) about worth it, so I am delighted that the Government made the northern hub, I congratulate him and others on that decision. renaming it. The term “Manchester hub” created a My hon. Friend made a point about it just being divide in the north and those of us on the right side of about breaking down the barrier of the north-south the border were naturally sceptical. Realistically, that divide, and I take that on board as it is a valid point, but project will create enormous benefits for our economy the decision shows a tremendous amount of confidence and I hope that it will get the support that it needs. The in the north of England. Leeds, for example, has been a cost of the project is about £500 million, which is a big financial centre in recent years and having such a fraction of the £16 billion spent on Crossrail. link would help to improve that. As we have heard, it I would first like to comment on the south access that will release capacity on the east coast main line. As the Government have funded at Leeds station. I cannot somebody who uses that line every week, our long-suffering say how important that is for some of the poorest parts commuters will be glad to see that. It is also important of the city. Over the years, the south side of the city of to remember that it will release capacity at Heathrow. It Leeds has not enjoyed the benefits of economic is important that we try to maintain Heathrow as an regeneration, and the money that the Government have international hub, and I hope that this will go some way kindly given in support of that project will open up to doing that. opportunities for significant regeneration in that area. My last plea and wish is for us to look—I recognise I welcome that. that it will take some time, given the financial situation—at I shall now turn to my pet project. I am in danger of links to Leeds-Bradford International airport. It is the causing what I call a crossing-the-road scenario with my only airport in the country where the only access is right hon. Friend the Minister. In my previous life, I was along single-track roads. It is an isolated airport, and the head of fundraising at a number of hospices. When there is an opportunity for us to look at providing a I walked down the road, people would cross over to tram-train link from the Harrogate line up to the airport avoid me because I was usually asking for something— and then down on to the Guiseley line, which would whether it was money for the charity or sponsorship. then, for the first time, connect Bradford with Harrogate Whenever I see my right hon. Friend the Minister, she and offer options for passengers. It is worth noting that gives me that “Oh God, not him” look. there is a collection of community groups in the area Kirkstall forge is a large brownfield site just outside called WARD, which noted that when the volcanic ash my constituency. It offers real potential for creating lots problem happened, the roads servicing that airport of new jobs and employment opportunities, with massive were considerably quieter during that period. That private investment—we are looking at about £350 million. demonstrated that the only way people can get to the In addition, we hope that there will be the opportunity airport is by car and we really need to look at a for two new stations: one that will serve that site and sustainable way of doing that. help to relieve the congestion caused by massive I congratulate the Transport Committee on an excellent development, in my constituency in recent years and in report. I just hope that the Minister will not cross the other areas, on very busy roads; and one at Apperley road next time I see her. 365WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 366WH

4.4 pm In fact, the report spoke highly of the benefits of investing in our railways, recognising that enhancements Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op): Thank often you, Mr Owen, for chairing the debate on such an important issue. As a member of the Transport Committee, “provide good value-for-money”— I would like to thank those who went before me and what we put in regularly, we get back in increased usage. prepared the report. As someone who commutes by Targeted investment can have “important economic train on a daily basis, this is a matter that is close to my benefits” for community connection and regeneration, heart, as it will be for my constituents and for all of our which means that not only the service provider, but our constituents. Today, I would like to focus on investment local businesses and communities cash in. The Government plans for railway stations rather than track and carriages, desperately need growth, and they must not ignore the in particular those known as category B stations, such potential for economic growth in the improvement of as the one in my constituency of Luton South. our railways. The Transport Committee’s third report “Priorities for investment in the railways” helpfully outlines the Kelvin Hopkins: Like my hon. Friend, I travel from current investment needs of our railways. The report Luton station every day. Does he agree that railway sets the discussion in its historical context. Despite the stations are about not only transport facilities but the successes of passenger numbers in many places, our appearance and the impression given when people arrive railways are sadly still overcrowded, outdated and in a town? The better a station looks, the more likely it underinvested. The rapid increase in passenger growth, is to encourage people to visit and businesses to stay, up by 73% since privatisation, has simply not been because it looks nice. That is a simple thing, but I am matched with sufficient investment, for whatever reason. certain we need it, and I hope my hon. Friend agrees. At the outset here, I would like to challenge the retort that the deficit gives a licence to scrap all prior Gavin Shuker: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. recommendations. The Committee’s report was published Luton station welcomes us both home at the end of a in early 2010, when the challenge of the recession was long evening in Parliament, and I only wish that all real to us all. Cuts to investment were anticipated, so passengers had the enjoyment of sitting opposite my the Committee sought to make its recommendations on hon. Friend the Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) the basis of key priority needs. The recommendations on their return journeys, so that their conversations in the report then, are not pipe dreams, but the basic might be as enlightened as ours often are. He makes a steps needed to bring our railways in line with essential strong point that stations are the gateway to broader common standards. communities. Investment in infrastructure, transport The report states: infrastructure and stations in particular bring a halo effect. “Cuts in transport investment are easy to make, but are costly in the long term, undermining future growth prospects and As we all know, rail is particularly important as a depriving future generations of a lasting legacy of good transport mode of transport for business. In my region, the east services.” of England, eight out of 10 rail journeys are made for It concludes: business purposes, all by people commuting to work. If “Investment in improving transport infrastructure should be we are to support people fully in their ability to get to based on the long-term needs of the economy and society, not work, investment in our railways is vital. Eddington directed by the need for immediate public expenditure savings”. argued that In fact, the report speaks very highly of the benefits of “the rising cost of congestion will waste an extra £22 billion investing in our railways. worth of time in England alone by 2025.” Our transport links, therefore, are a 4.7 pm “key enabler of productivity and competitiveness”— Sitting suspended for a Division in the House. according to the Select Committee report—and, in short, we have no choice but to invest if we want growth and jobs. Let us not dismiss our future prosperity with a 4.21 pm narrow argument made solely in the name of the deficit. On resuming— It is also worth noting that investment in construction is one of the silver bullets in Government action to get Albert Owen (in the Chair): Order. Before I call Gavin significant economic growth. The improvement of stations Shuker, I will just explain that I will call the Front is identified in the report as one of the key improvement Benchers at about 5.15 pm, as we have an extra 15 minutes projects worthy of consideration in the next control from the Division. Four Members are trying to catch period. Station upgrades are highlighted as beneficial in my eye, so if the next speakers can consider a time limit wider area regeneration. Stations are not simply sheds of 10 minutes, we will get in everyone who wants to in which we shelter from the rain, as my hon. Friend the participate in the debate. Member for Luton North has said. They are key functional zones and play an important role in the total journey Gavin Shuker: Thank you, Mr Owen. experience and in enabling economic productivity in a As I was saying before we were so rudely interrupted wider region. by the business in the main Chamber, the Select Committee We all know that first impressions count. I am incredibly report concludes: proud of the town of Luton—I am, indeed, from what I “Investment in improving transport infrastructure should be hope shortly to call the city of Luton. However, I based on the long-term needs of the economy and society, not confess that it is not with pride that I welcome visitors directed by the need for immediate public expenditure savings.” at Luton railway station. The station has been assessed 367WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 368WH

[Gavin Shuker] back into the network from increased rental spaces. However, on 25 June last year, the Government announced as one of the worst stations in the whole of the United that the better stations scheme would be scrapped. Kingdom, measured by equivalent passenger numbers. Frankly, the cancellation of the programme was an In the words of my hon. Friend the Member for Luton utter sham. Network Rail rolled over far too easily and North, in his Adjournment debate last year: quickly on a well-considered scheme that was welcomed “It is drab, dreary and depressing.”—[Official Report, 23 March by many hon. Members. As yet, we have no answers as 2010; Vol. 508, c. 63WH.] to how the improvements will now be done. It does not do our area justice, and the population of The Minister will undoubtedly be proud of the settlement Luton has been complaining about it for long enough. her Department secured, which we all agree was far better than expected. However, her Department made a Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): In addition to mistake in putting pressure on Network Rail to cave in those remarks, I had the experience of going to Luton and damaging regeneration across those 10 key areas, many years ago, but I suspect that the station is exactly where we could make a real practical difference to the same as it was then. Safety is also involved. As a stations. woman, certainly, I felt incredibly unsafe in Luton As we look at ways that investment in our railways station, because of the layout and everything else. That can be part of wider economic regeneration, let us not is such an important element. overlook our stations. As the “Better Rail Stations” report rightly points out: Gavin Shuker: My hon. Friend has anticipated my “Stations cannot be seen in isolation—they are part of the next point. We ought to expect certain key standards total journey experience…Stations are deeply entwined with their from major stations. If stations do not live up to them, local community and effectively act as the gateway to both town as in Luton, they require significant investment. and railway. They leave passengers with their lasting impressions Do not take that judgment from me alone. Luton of both—a dilapidated station is bad business for both town and station is known as a category B railway station—it is railway.” the second busiest type of station, a national interchange Our category B stations have been left to rot away for seeing high levels of passenger traffic. All stations in the far too long as energy has been focused on a handful of UK are categorised, from A, the busiest national hubs, shiny new hubs. Those vital interchanges do not satisfy right the way through down to F, which are unstaffed basic standards. The decision to scrap the upgrade stations. Levels of passenger traffic increase up the scheme was hurried, short-sighted and counter-productive. categories. Sixty-six stations are classified as category As we reassess priorities for investment and review the B, accounting for 3% of the total number of stations in findings of that finely worded report, let us not make England and Wales. the same mistake again. That all seems logical. However, the criteria for category A and category B stations are broadly identical. Each 4.30 pm station must witness more than 2 million trips a year and £20 million in annual revenue, meaning that a Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): I notoriously busy station such as Clapham Junction can join other hon. Members in congratulating the Chair of fall into category B and be subject to far lower levels of the Transport Committee, the hon. Member for Liverpool, investment than stations in category A. If we do have a Riverside (Mrs Ellman), on securing this debate about classless society, it certainly is not currently witnessed the priorities for rail investment. That is an important on our tracks. topic, as it involves the relative merits of what our money is spent on. Value for taxpayers’ money is a The 2009 independent report by Chris Green and subject dear to my heart. Professor Sir Peter Hall, “Better Rail Stations”, highlighted category B stations as the category of station most in Almost a year ago, I was the unsuspecting candidate need of immediate investment—dire need, one might for South Northamptonshire. Suddenly, I heard Lord say. The report concluded that Adonis’s announcement about high-speed rail that was, “the National ‘B’ Interchange stations are not adequately funded quite literally, to change my life, and it hit me out of the to meet the Minimum Standards and represent the biggest ‘gap’ blue that the line would go through the middle of South in station consistency.” Northamptonshire. Within days, I held a public meeting It later made a strong point: that was attended by about 550 people. Of those, 400 were on two floors of a town hall in Brackley, and 150 were “They tend to lie in the shadow of the high-earning ‘A’stations outside on the pavement trying to get in. and are under-invested for their daily role as major transport interchanges.” I do not want to focus on that today. Hon. Members Stations such as Luton and Clapham Junction are from across the House have made accusations of nimbyism, not receiving the investment they merit for their important noted that if we want to make an omelette a few eggs roles in our national network. The report highlighted have to be cracked and made other helpful remarks. 10 category B stations deemed in need of immediate Therefore, I will not talk about the fact that I have had upgrade work and recommended the creation of a nigh on 1,000 pieces of correspondence. My right hon. sinking fund to help those stations meet basic minimum Friend the Minister knows that only too well, as I am in standards. The previous Labour Government accepted regular correspondence with her and the Department those proposals, and Network Rail committed £5 million for Transport. to the project in Luton alone. The rest of that funding There are real concerns. Some schools in my constituency was in place, and the people of Luton celebrated that. may be unviable from now on because of the risk that Retailers began to plan for the better shops and high-speed rail will run so close to the school that in a conveniences they could offer, offering additional revenue few years’ time—within the time frame for parents to 369WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 370WH decide where to send their children to school—that the future, although not in our lifetime I have been told. school will be forced to close. If that threat exists, why Meanwhile, we are stuck with ancient 21st-century would any sensible parent send their child to such a technology, and we have to look at what we can do now. school? There are families who need to move but do not Hon. Members have spoken about the importance of quite meet the criteria for the exceptional hardship the electrification of other lines. They have mentioned scheme. They do not know when they will be able to the northern hub and the east-west line. A number of move, if ever. There is a risk that the famous English colleagues who will not be affected at all by HS2 have battle site at Edgcote will be severely damaged by the said, “What about my line? My constituents want to get proposed route. There are many small battles to fight in from the east coast to the west coast. What are we doing South Northamptonshire to protect ourselves in terms for them?” of mitigation. Again, I will not talk about that now, because I have been accused of nimbyism too many Mrs Villiers: I hope that my hon. Friend appreciates times. Instead, I will focus on my 23 years in banking that over the next five years, the coalition Government and finance, and hope that that will give me the credibility will be embarking on one of the most extensive upgrades to point out the issues about value for money and the of our existing network in modern history. There is no choices that we need to make about our priorities for evidence to suggest that high-speed rail is going to rail infrastructure. squeeze out other important rail upgrades. Both are We expect the High Speed 2 line from London to important, and both will be delivered on. Birmingham to cost around £17 billion. That is largely a guess, as such major infrastructure projects often have Andrea Leadsom: I am pleased and reassured to hear big overruns. I know the Department for Transport is that, but nevertheless, in this time of great financial concerned about the fact that civil engineering in this constraint, there is no doubt that a £17 billion project country costs such a great deal. As a frequent user of will lead to other choices not being taken. the line from Euston to Milton Keynes, I accept that the west coast main line is at capacity. I have taken trains The hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) home at 8 pm, and still found myself standing shoulder made an excellent contribution—he is clearly an expert to shoulder. It is a matter not of having a seat, but of on this matter. He spoke about a dedicated freight line. having anywhere to stand. However, is that need for I do not wish to be a nimby, but if such a line went capacity best met through a brand new, 250 mph train through my constituency, I can see the obvious merits line, or can we achieve something similar by providing of a dedicated freight line that I cannot see having additional capacity on existing railway lines, and using looking carefully at HS2. the change—a significant amount of money—to fulfil some of the other interesting and compelling projects Kelvin Hopkins: The hon. Lady made a good point that hon. Members have mentioned today? about high-speed trains having to go in a straight line. That gives them certain rigidities that do not apply to As I have heard many times, because of the capacity normal passenger routes up to 130 mph, or to freight issue there has to be a new train line, and if we are to trains that can manoeuvre and take tighter curves. That have a new train line, it may as well be high speed. That cannot be the case with high-speed trains. They have to is my first challenge. High-speed rail has massive go in straight lines because of the speeds involved. implications in terms of engineering costs and the impact on the environment and the communities through which it passes. Does the line have to be high speed? Will it Andrea Leadsom: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman even reach 250 mph? Certain international rail consultants for that point. He is right—high-speed rail has to go in a have challenged whether such a line in Britain—a small straight line and it is much more expensive to create country with complications caused by the lie of the that, which greatly limits the number of stops. I have land, the wrong sort of leaves, the wrong sort of snow heard it said that the line needs to go from London to and probably the wrong sort of trespassers on the Birmingham for the purpose of speed and to solve the line—will actually ever reach 250 mph on a regular north-south divide. I agree with those hon. Members basis. If it does not, what on earth is the point of who have said that that alone will not solve the north-south spending the money to go in a straight line? That is my divide and that other decisions will need to be taken. We first major question. need to consider the whole of Britain. From the point of view of many constituencies along the way between Secondly, I have seen evidence that suggests that a London and Birmingham, if the line were to be made similar amount of capacity could be freed-up on the viable with interim stops, so that there were some sharing west coast main line by providing 12-coach trains, making of the benefit, it would be more attractive. adjustments to certain stations and carrying out other alterations that would not incur the type of disruption David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con): No one that we saw in previous upgrades to that line. Is this an would claim that high-speed rail on its own could solve issue of capacity, or is it a case of, “HS2 is the answer, the north-south divide. I do not think that anyone in the what is the question?”? I am unconvinced that we have Chamber, including my right hon. Friend the Minister, said, “There is £17 billion to be spent, how best can we would attempt to do that. However, will my hon. Friend spend it?” I did not give the Minister prior notice of admit that the creation of 40,000 jobs—that is KPMG’s that question, but I would appreciate it if she would estimate—in the north-west, north-east and Yorkshire indicate whether she will be willing to talk to me separately as a result of high-speed rail would contribute towards about it. doing it? She said that other projects could be equally I am not a transport expert by any means. My favourite effective in helping to solve the north-south divide. film as a child was “The Railway Children”, and my Perhaps she will say which of those she would put her 15-year-old has told me excitedly about Maglev. That is money on. Finally, three or four hon. Members have 371WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 372WH

[David Mowat] trains. We need urgent action, and I hope that the Minister will tell us when some of that action will take made the point that incremental improvements in rail place. are very effective in the short term. That is correct, but We also need to consider the capacity of the we cannot just make incremental improvements for infrastructure. When Virgin started to run three trains ever— from Manchester to London every hour, trains going through my constituency reduced in number, and a Albert Owen (in the Chair): Order. number of those went to Manchester Victoria instead of Piccadilly. Of course, Piccadilly is our hub station, Andrea Leadsom: I thank my hon. Friend for his where we get through trains either to London or to intervention. However, I am not of the old USSR view other destinations. Piccadilly is at capacity. There simply that we should just do public project after public project are no more trains that can run in and out of Piccadilly, for the sake of creating jobs. There needs to be a clear so we urgently need the northern hub, which will free up rationale for having the high-speed line in the first place. routes and give us more trains to and through Manchester. Any project needs to stand on its own merits and not be Similarly, the west coast main line is nearly at capacity. done just because it creates jobs, so I do not agree with Trains cannot run 24 hours a day. There has to be time my hon. Friend in that respect. for maintenance and inspection. The assets are already I have seen evidence—I hope that the Minister will sweating. Therefore it seems to me that we have no comment on it—that the west coast main line, through choice but an additional line. It could be a freight line, incremental improvements that would not cause disruption, but why would we build for the last century rather than could come very close to providing the same increase in for this century and for the future? We need to use the capacity as HS2. My central point is that that would be best of our technology to ensure that we have a system a much cheaper and less disruptive alternative means of that goes forward. That does not mean that I do not achieving the same improvements in our rail infrastructure. have sympathy—of course I do—for people who will be disadvantaged whatever line we build, but we need that additional capacity now. We cannot continue to put 4.42 pm decisions off; we need to make the decision to go Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): It is a pleasure to forward. see you in the Chair, Mr Owen. I congratulate my hon. I agree with the hon. Member for Blackpool North Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard) that we need investment on securing a debate on this very important issue. I in rail across and within the north. When I started to ought to declare an interest, in that my constituency work for the TSSA, I asked why the lines were called up party is supported by the Transport Salaried Staffs and down lines. I was told, “Well, you go up to London Association—one of the railway unions. and you go down to the provinces,” so I asked, “What I want to cover a number of different areas, so I am do you call it when you go east and west and you don’t afraid that my comments will jump around a little. I am go anywhere near London?” I still do not have a good concerned that if we talk simply about the economic answer to that question. Sometimes we do have to cross benefits of investment in rail, that may well mean that that border—we do have to go into Yorkshire. the north is always disadvantaged. Because of the size The current situation is ridiculous. We have two great of London’s economy, the benefits of investment in cities in the north—Manchester and Leeds. They are so London and the south may always appear to be greater, close to each other—only 40 miles apart—and are but that should not be the only judgment. In the north, linked by a good service, but it has to travel so slowly we have suggested that High Speed 2 should start in the because of the condition of the line. We desperately north—we want it up there. We should start it up there need investment in that route—investment in routes and worry about the bottom bit afterwards. We have that do not just go to London. It is also incredibly been told that that is not feasible because the economic difficult to travel within the region to other destinations—to benefit will come only if it is in the London area. get across the region. I am talking about people trying However, if rail is not only public transport but a public to go from York to Sheffield or other places. We need to service, why should someone in London receive three consider how we can improve line speeds there and times as much public money as my constituents in improve the service. Bolton? We need to consider more than just the economic I welcome the commitment that the present Government benefit. have made to follow the previous Government’s plans That takes me on to overcrowding on the trains. for electrification, particularly as I should get electrification Pacers still run from my station in Allerton. I do not in my constituency, which will be a great joy for us. know whether everyone knows what Pacers are. They However, we cannot stop at that electrification. We have are like buses on rail. I do not know how Northern Rail to consider whether we can have east-west electrification. engineers keep them going. They are rather decrepit Can we electrify other parts of the system? I would be rolling stock. The issue has to be quality as well as interested to hear what the Minister has to say about capacity. We may have to accept having second-hand our future plans for electrification. The reality is that stock in the north, but we need to ensure that it is not electrification increases capacity and speed, reduces second rate. wear and is better for the environment. Frequently, my constituents cannot get on the train The debate is about celebrating the success of our services from Bolton. The situation is similar when they railways. The problem that we have arises because too come home at night. The overcrowding is such that if many people want to use our trains. I look forward to they do not start off at Manchester but try to get on at more investment. I congratulate the Minister on securing one of the intermediate stations, they cannot get on the the investment that we do have now, but we need to look 373WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 374WH to the future and see how we can develop our infrastructure As the Eddington transport study highlighted, it is and rolling stock. I look forward to a better service for not that Britain’s transport system is not quick enough, passengers. but rather that it is extremely dense and we need greater investment in capacity. 4.42 pm Mr Tom Harris: The hon. Gentleman advocates that Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con): I add we follow China’s example on high-speed rail. I presume my congratulations to the Select Committee on Transport that he is aware that when the Chinese want to build a on its most excellent report. If I may say so, however, high-speed line they demolish houses that get in the there is one area of the report that could have done with way.Planning arrangements there are rather less democratic strengthening a bit—high-speed rail. I have already than ours. I would be wary about following that example. made my position clear: I do not support High Speed 2. Chris White: Those last two interventions show the As the report makes clear, the estimated cost of the similarities and differences in how our two countries London-west midlands line is about £11 billion, with operate. the total cost rising to £69 billion for a full 1,500-mile network. High-speed rail is therefore a major part of The Committee says that we are reaching full capacity the long-term investment in our railways, and I believe and that we need to put extra capacity in place, and I that it should be heavily scrutinised before we commit respect that. However, high-speed rail is not the only so much public money to it. I appreciate that the report answer, and I believe that that should be investigated. mentions some of the arguments surrounding high-speed The Department for Transport’s report on alternatives rail, but I believe that more time should have been given to high-speed rail, rail package 2, was able to deliver the to it and it should have been studied in greater depth, necessary capacity improvements at a superior rate of given the potential cost to the country over the long term. return, and it was costed at a mere £2 billion. We should be considering all these options rather than deciding on Given that in 2007 the Department for Transport large-scale prestige projects. Further areas of concern broadly accepted the Eddington transport study, which could be highlighted, such as the potential economic concluded that high-speed-rail would be poor value for disadvantage that may be caused to other areas of the money in the UK, it is incumbent on Parliament to ask country that do not have access to the high-speed what has changed so much in the space of the last three network. years to reverse that conclusion. As I said, I am grateful that the Committee chose to Mrs Villiers: Apart from anything else, there has been consider the matter, and I believe that it will provide a a change of Government. We are taking a forward-looking platform for real debate on our rail investment priorities approach, so as to address the transport needs of our over the coming years. I hope that everyone will engage country over the next century. We have to make this in it fully. upgrade to deal with the massive growth of future Julie Hilling: I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving years. It is the best way to deliver it in a sustainable way. way. I keep hearing that there are alternatives. I wonder Chris White: I thank my right hon. Friend for her what alternative there is for land-based travel from comments. Scotland and the north of England to London if it is not high-speed rail. If I may pursue my argument further, there are still some questions to be asked—such as whether the Chris White: I had come to the end of my speech, but assumption of background growth in demand of 133% I shall answer the hon. Lady’s question. We have heard is truly realistic; such as whether potential competition much about north-south and east-west, but I have to from conventional rail has been taken into consideration admit that I am quite parochial about the matter. I am when calculating the returns to be generated by this from the south midlands, and I believe that there are investment; such as whether new developments in different options. We have good services now; what we technology, including video conferencing, online need is greater capacity. communication and information sharing, will seriously reduce the need for travel. 4.54 pm Large countries such as China are considering whether Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): It is a pleasure there are clear benefits to high-speed rail. A report by to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Owen. I too The Economist only two weeks ago entitled “On the wrong congratulate the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside track” highlighted the fact that many of the newly (Mrs Ellman) on her Committee’s report and on securing added lines are making hefty losses and are thought to this important debate. be operating at under half capacity. The Chinese Academy of Sciences has asked the Chinese Government to reconsider It is good that there has been a reasonable degree of the case for investment in high-speed rail. consensus, perhaps not entirely on high-speed rail but on the need for investment in the railways in general Paul Maynard: Does my hon. Friend agree that there and the importance of that to the economy, the environment is a crucial difference in that we have freedom of movement, and the country. That is just as well because, given the but China does not, which slightly adjusts market demand? time scales involved, it would be a disaster if those policies were to be chopped and changed between Chris White: I agree with that specific point. However, Administrations. if China, which has an economy twice the size of ours, It is right to give due credit to the previous Secretary is considering whether high-speed rail gives value for of State, Lord Adonis, who planned much of the investment money—despite the point made by hon. Friend—we that is now going forward. The present Secretary of should think again. State had his eye on the post of Chief Secretary to the 375WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 376WH

[Martin Horwood] larger projects. The importance of the right decision-making methodology was also mentioned. My hon. Friend the Treasury, and may have been a little disappointed not to Member for Chippenham (Duncan Hames) made some have secured that position, but every cloud has a silver excellent points about the need for a long-term strategic lining and the Treasury’s loss was certainly our gain—rather, view and for joined-up planning in that respect. However, it was the railway’s gain, because he has secured one of environmental concerns now take an even greater part the most outstanding settlements, and that is a credit to in that methodology. him and his ministerial team, and to the Government, Passenger experience, too, is important. When it comes whose overall commitment to maintaining capital spending to franchise reform, it is important that we do not use in these difficult times means that we have secured most only the basic metrics, such as punctuality; we should of the investment originally planned for the railways. also consider the quality of passenger experience on That includes core funding for control period 4, for the some of our railway services. I would nominate leg Thameslink upgrade and Crossrail, and for High Speed 2. room as being one of the most important. Passenger It was a little uncharacteristically partisan of the experience should play a much greater part not only in hon. Lady to suggest that there was a deliberate policy the awarding of franchises but in their maintenance to price people off the railways. That is so obviously and, if necessary, their recall when services and standards nonsense and not part of the Government’s strategy fall. It is also important that regional balance is considered. that it should not be repeated. Many Members have made similar points. Some of the specific medium to long-term priorities identified in the Gavin Shuker: I want to put on record the fact that I report were equally important, and the points were all was pleased to receive from the Minister of State the well made. I am an unashamed supporter of high-speed information that, as a result of RPI plus 3%, growth in rail as is the Liberal Democrat party. The time scales the railways will be diminished by 4%. involved are quite mind boggling. We can reassure some hon. Members about the investment involved, because it is spread over a long period of time. Martin Horwood: Supply and demand on the railways clearly do not work in favour of the customer. If the Andrea Leadsom: Is the hon. Gentleman an unashamed Government had not taken a realistic approach to fares, supporter of HS2, or is he an unashamed supporter of as well as to public support for the railways, some of dramatically increasing the amount of capacity on the that critical investment in the railway’s future would west coast main line? have been lost. That, too, would in the end have damaged the interests of customers. Martin Horwood: Both actually. The importance of It is obviously regrettable that any fares have to rise at High Speed 2 is not simply related to the stretch to all. We all want to see them fall. Indeed, that Liberal Birmingham. If we consider the ultimate plan, which is Democrat aspiration was included in our manifesto. to link London and Scotland, and then Scotland and However, we must recognise that the Labour party has Europe, by high speed rail, with another link to Wales left us with an annual overspend that would have swallowed and the west, we can see that it will compete holistically the Department for Transport’s budget many times with aviation—I have already mentioned that aviation over. We have to be realistic about the need to invest in traffic tends to drop by 80% on routes covered by high that kind of environment. speed rail—and cars. As people shift from conventional The Select Committee made some important points rail to high-speed rail, which happens and is an about the security of that investment programme. Some environmental issue because high-speed rail is more of those programmes have been maintained. The Minister energy intensive, the likelihood is that their places will will know that I am going to mention one project that I be taken by people abandoning car journeys as traffic think she maintains was not agreed but which I consistently becomes more competitive. maintain had been agreed, which is the redoubling of the Swindon to Kemble line. It was given enormous Andrea Leadsom rose— support by the Welsh Assembly, local councils, Labour MPs from south Wales and Swindon, Tory MPs from Martin Horwood: I am a little wary of the time, so I the counties between, and Liberal Democrats from will plough on. I endorse the view that we need a Cheltenham, Bristol and Cardiff—and probably balance in railway investment between not only Manchester Chippenham. but the whole of the north of England and London and The redoubling of that short stretch of line would the south-east. I echo the comments of my hon. Friend have an enormous impact on the reliability of all the the Member for Chippenham about the need for a routes that serve those areas and constituencies. It rebalance in favour of the west and Wales. When we would also be important to the resilience of the network enter the next control period, it is important that we in the west of England, particularly in the event of bear in mind such balances. interruptions to cross-Severn services. Once again, I Electrification, which was raised by the Select Committee, urge the Minister to look down the departmental sofa is an important issue, especially in the context of the to see if any pennies can be found to secure that one Great Western main line. We need to be wary about project. It is a shame, but it is virtually the only railway presenting the commitment to electrify as far as Newbury project that was agreed under the previous Government and Oxford as any kind of cut. That project will continue that is not going forward. until 2018, so to look beyond that is already well into The Select Committee report rightly talked about the the next Parliament. The Labour party committed itself value of rail enhancements, including many local projects, to 20% cuts in its submissions to the comprehensive and stressed that they were as important as many of the spending review across unprotected Departments, so if 377WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 378WH extra and faster investment in electrification were to made. The Government must be on the ball about fare happen, it would be interesting to see what cuts would increases and make sure that train-operating companies be made to pay for it. are not taking advantage of customers. We must be wary of the perception that all the In short, we should attack the fundamental causes of investment is working its way out from London. If I the high costs—the lack of capacity, the supply and were to suggest that we face a rise in rail fares across the demand problems and the cost base of the railways. The entire network, constituents living in Wales or Bristol Office of Rail Regulation has said that Network Rail is would not see a great return on that rise. However, up to 40% less efficient than its European counterparts, someone who is living in, say, Witney, would be closer which means that we have some fundamental problems. to one of the stations that would be electrified—Didcot With the inflated cost of rolling stock and so on, there is parkway or Oxford—and they might get a very real and clearly potential for the Government to address the rapid return on their increased rail fares. We have to be fundamental costs of our railways. If they do that wary about the perception that all the benefits are being effectively and protect investment, we will have a transport delivered first to London and the south-east. system that any Government could be proud to say is better value for money, better for the environment and The hon. Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) better for the travelling public. made some important points about signalling technology. My hon. Friend the Member for Chippenham mentioned the European rail and traffic management system, and I Albert Owen (in the Chair): Before I call Mr Gwynne, raise an alarm about that. I urge the Minister to examine I remind Members that Mrs Ellman, as Chair of the the experience of Londoners when the ERTMS was Select Committee, will be making a few comments at introduced on the tube system. She should perhaps take the end. some advice on how well the system works. 5.7 pm Kelvin Hopkins: There is a difference between signalling Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): I am assistance in general and specific signalling assistance pleased to contribute to this important debate. I congratulate about which there may be some doubts. the Transport Committee on its report and my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) Martin Horwood: That is absolutely correct. The on securing this debate. I am pleased to have had the Select Committee report also mentions the importance opportunity to listen to the views and concerns of right of investment in rolling stock. It is important for the hon. and hon. Members. It has been good, thoughtful Government to take their time to get that right. There and powerful debate from all parts of the Chamber. have been delays under both Governments, so that is The Select Committee report posed a number of questions common ground. Rolling stock is a significant contributor about the future of the rail industry that are relevant to to the general level of expense in our railways. If it takes our deliberations today. The report might be a year old, time to consider how to deliver more competitive prices but it is very much a case of back to the future. Many of for rolling stock, it might be a delay worth considering. the challenges outlined in the report are still to be answered satisfactorily or properly addressed by the Smart ticketing was raised in the report. It is important Government. that we have better integration of ticketing. The current system is confusing and often unfair. Claire Cook, my The report looked at a wide range issues facing the fantastic PA in my constituency office, regularly books rail industry. There were perhaps too many to cover me a first-class ticket on a Gloucestershire to London adequately in the time that we have left. A key issue is train for £21.50. That horrifies many of my constituents how we deal with severe overcrowding on services and who pay several times more for a standard ticket on the how we realign rail investment more equally across the same train on the same route. They do not seem reassured whole country. The report considered ways in which we when I tell them that because they have, in effect, paid could increase electrification on the network and examined for my ticket too, they are really saving money. That rail investments that could be shared with all parts of really does not seem to go down well. The risk is that the country. there is an unnecessary perception of high cost, because As you are no doubt aware, Mr Owen, Labour is people do not realise that cheaper fares are available. currently undertaking a policy review. As part of that, The ticketing system must be addressed. We should the transport team is looking at the ways in which we move towards a system that is a bit more like Oyster can deliver improvements in our railways. With nothing cards in London. When someone uses an Oyster card, ruled in or out at this stage and with all ideas on the they can be pretty sure that they are getting the cheapest table for further discussion and examination, these ongoing fare available for that route. The application of such a discussions will form the basis of Labour party policy system would be a good thing for the whole country. on transport for the next general election. A number of Obviously, though, that is a technical and organisational the ideas that have been raised today will be considered challenge. seriously. Finally, everyone regrets increases in fares. Even when we accept that fares have to increase, there is a need to Mrs Villiers: Does the hon. Gentleman’s party still examine the sharp practices by train-operating companies, support high-speed rail or not? such as shifting the time boundary between peak and off-peak, so that there are suddenly more peak fares Andrew Gwynne: The Minister pre-empts what I will than before, even though, technically, the price has not come to later in my contribution, but we are in favour of been raised. That is a stealthy way of raising prices for faster trains and better connectivity, and high-speed rail customers. The use of averages was a point very well will certainly form part of our policy review. 379WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 380WH

[Andrew Gwynne] Similarly, we wait with bated breath to see whether the newly electrified lines in the north-west, when they Returning to the Transport Committee’s report, there are eventually upgraded, will actually have electrified are a few issues that it addressed that I would like to trains running on them from day one. Rightly there is a revisit briefly. As the report clearly identified, it is likely concern that, with delays to Thameslink, the carriage that there will be serious capacity issues all over the rail cascade to the north-west will be delayed. After all the network in the years to come, and the Labour party internal investment to electrify the north-west part of remains committed to addressing both overcrowding the network, it would be a travesty if the old, overcrowded and capacity issues on the network. However, where a and slower diesel units continue to be used on the newly Government makes future investment in the rail network electrified lines. is clearly important and tough decisions have to be I would warmly welcome any updates on these issues made about the future priorities of the network. that the Minister can give us today. Can she let me know As the report also clearly identified, investment decisions when there will be a decision about electrification to will have a huge impact on regional growth, and those Wales? Likewise, can she confirm the time scales that decisions can help to perpetuate a vicious cycle of are in place for the replacement of Thameslink rolling increasing disparity of wealth between regions. They stock and for cascading trains to the Great Western will be all the more important in light of the abolition main line and the north-west? of the regional development agencies, which was referred The Transport Committee report also identified the to by both my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, importance of having new rolling stock on the network. Riverside and the hon. Member for Blackpool North Clearly, the delaying and reprofiling of some major and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard). I myself represent a schemes that had been announced by Labour is constituency in the north-west of England, so it is disappointing, especially as train fares were hiked up frustrating for me to see how rail congestion is having a last month, but new carriages remain some years away real economic impact in areas such as Manchester and for some commuters. in the wider north-west, with knock-on effects on jobs and prosperity for my constituents and others. It is a similar story regarding the delivery of replacement stock for the outdated inter-city fleet. Clearly, the The report rightly identified the northern hub as the Government have delayed their decision on the inter-city key to improving rail services across the north of England. express programme, with all the knock-on effects for As we have already heard, it is an ambition of the cascading rolling stock. It is time that the Government northern hub project to increase train services in the ended the delays and allowed that project to proceed. north, including to cities such as Newcastle, Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and Sheffield, by 40% during the next 20 years. That means 700 more trains a day, Mrs Villiers: I will not take any lectures from the hon. making it possible for 3.5 million more passengers to Gentleman—a Labour MP—about the IEP, given that travel by train every year. The estimated wider economic his Government made little progress on it and spent impact of the project is also significant, with the creation £26 million on merely trying to procure the new trains. of 23,000 new jobs and a return of £4 for every £1 that is spent. Of course, it has been frustrating for the Andrew Gwynne: I would welcome an update from northern hub project that there are no firm commitments the Minister about where that infrastructure project has about when work on that worthwhile and economically got to and when we can expect to see new inter-city beneficial project will start. I want to take this opportunity trains. to ask the Minister if she envisages that the project will be in the next Network Rail control period. After rail fares increased last month by RPI plus 1%, as we have already heard, it is disappointing for The report also examined the benefits of electrification, commuters that the Secretary of State keeps claiming both for the environment and for improving the efficiency that fare increases across the CSR period will be only of our rail network. As we know, a number of regional 10%. Is not the truth that RPI plus 3% will deliver a schemes were announced by the previous Labour cumulative increase of more than 30% on the inflation Government, and many of them were reconfirmed by forecasts by the Office for Budget Responsibility? the current Government through the comprehensive spending review. As yet, we are still awaiting a final The Minister’s Department confirmed to me—it seems decision on whether or not the Great Western main line that it has also confirmed this to my hon. Friend the electrification will extend all the way to Wales. People in Member for Luton South (Gavin Shuker) in an answer Wales will feel pretty upset if that decision is delayed to a written question—that it expects the effect of those unduly, especially when the Conservative party manifesto rises to be rail passengers opting for other forms of itself said: transport. There is a concern, which the Minister used to share, that higher fares will price people off trains. “We support…the electrification of the Great Western line to South Wales.” That concern exists despite what the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) has said. In turn, pricing I am not sure whether there were any Welsh MPs in the people off trains will reduce people’s access to work and room during the coalition negotiations, because that force them back on to the roads, generating more commitment was subsequently downgraded to a general congestion, increasing carbon emissions and setting statement of support for back our goal of achieving a sustainable transport “further electrification of the rail network.” system. It is crucial that the economic benefits of electrification Briefly, I want to talk about high-speed rail, which extend to south Wales, and by that I mean that electrification was also mentioned in the Transport Committee’s report. should extend not only to Cardiff but Swansea. As I have said in response to an intervention by the 381WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 382WH

Minister, the Labour transport review will look at all 5.19 pm areas of policy in detail, including high-speed rail. The Minister of State, Department for Transport Clearly it is right that we should look in detail at the (Mrs Theresa Villiers): It is a pleasure to serve under best way of delivering faster journey times between our your chairmanship, Mr Owen, and I, like everyone else, core cities while increasing capacity. congratulate the Chairman of the Select Committee, The connectivity gains of high-speed rail arise not only the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), from faster trains but from the new route alignments on securing this debate on such an important issue. that comprise the proposed “Y”-shaped network of It has been a good debate, and we have at times been lines from London to Birmingham and—eventually—north in danger of breaking out into a bit of cross-party to Manchester, Leeds and beyond. However, I have a consensus, which is extremely unusual on rail. It has real concern about the Government’s commitment to been enlivened by references to Trotskyism and Leninism— taking the planned high-speed line to the north. They the first time I have seen such elements enter into a have decided not to use the forthcoming high-speed debate on the railways. Everyone has recognised the legislation to secure the legal powers that would be crucial importance of our transport networks in general, needed to take the line beyond Birmingham, as Labour and our rail network in particular, to our future economic had planned to do. We will support the Government prosperity, and to our ambition both to address in taking the line beyond Birmingham, if that is what environmental concerns, including those about climate they choose to do. Perhaps the Minister can provide change, and to deal with congestion on our roads by us with assurances that the Government will look providing a viable alternative to the lorry and the car. again at seeking powers to extend the route beyond The coalition has pledged to cut the deficit and also Birmingham. recognises that securing growth is vital, which is why in It is also worth briefly mentioning freight on the rail the comprehensive spending review the Chancellor placed network, which was an issue referred to both in the a priority on transport spending. As many Members, Transport Committee’s report and by my hon. Friend particularly the hon. Member for Luton South (Gavin the Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins). Freight Shuker), have acknowledged, transport projects can operations play a big part in the economy, and we generate wider economic benefits many times their cost. should look at ways of ensuring that freight capacity I very much welcome the generous acknowledgement can continue to play a role in the rail network. Will the by my predecessor as rail Minister, the hon. Member for Minister outline how she sees rail freight being prioritised, Glasgow South (Mr Harris), that the anxiety about a especially with an eye on possible structural changes to Conservative Government slashing spending on the Network Rail in the coming years? Indeed, is rail freight railways has not materialised. Rail emerged from the still a Government priority? spending review in a far stronger position than most people had expected, and that was acknowledged also That brings me on to the McNulty review on value by my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North for money, which will have a real bearing on the future and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard). functioning of the rail network. I welcome that review We have had to take a difficult decision on fares and of the rail industry, which was started by Labour when I, of course, wish that that could have been avoided, but we were in government. When Sir Roy McNulty publishes without the three years of RPI plus 3 increases, we his final report in April, we will consider any sensible simply would not be able to deliver the vital capacity proposals that would take costs out of the industry improvements that passengers need. To make the sums without reducing the quality of services for passengers. add up, we had no choice but to ask passengers to pay Does the Minister agree that, as the cost to the Government more, but we are absolutely confident that passenger of running the railways comes down, the cost to the numbers will continue to grow. I was surprised that the public of travelling by train should come down as well? Select Committee Chairman asked whether we were Such a reduction would go some way towards helping committed to new capacity and whether we expected hard-pressed commuters up and down the country, who growth to continue, because we are embarking on one are facing record fare rises of more than 30% in the next of the most ambitious extra-capacity programmes in few years. The initial findings of the McNulty review the history of the railways. That demonstrates our have suggested that savings of £1 billion can be found confidence that passenger numbers will grow, and our without cutting services. Will the Minister now commit commitment to relieving overcrowding, which, as she to sharing the benefits of those savings with passengers rightly highlights, is a major concern. and to rethinking some of the fare rises that are due in future years? Mrs Ellman: Do the right hon. Lady’s statements In conclusion, as the Transport Committee report mean that she gives a categorical commitment to delivering shows, the Government need a long-term vision for rail, the rolling stock as promised, and will she include in the and we need to deliver projects to build on our ambition conditions of future franchises a requirement to look at to have a world-class rail service in this country. Where the health and safety implications of overcrowding? we agree with the Government, we will support them. The previous Labour Government left the rail network Mrs Villiers: I will, in a moment, outline the in a far better condition than the one in which we found Government’s commitments on extra rolling stock. Health it. Rail passenger numbers increased by 40% during the and safety is a matter for the Office of Rail Regulation, last decade, punctuality and quality of service also which takes on board all such factors in its decisions on improved steadily in that time and consumer satisfaction safety in the rail industry. There has been a significant with services increased. However, I recognise that there improvement in safety on our railways over recent years, is still a huge amount to do, and this Transport Committee and we need to pay tribute to the fact that they are one report is a good starting point for that future work. of the safest forms of transport. 383WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 384WH

[Mrs Villiers] provide more than £1.5 billion for local authority major schemes in the period up to 2014-15, and that is a larger In response to the hon. Member for Glasgow South, amount than the average annual Department for Transport we do not at the moment have any plans to reintroduce spend on such schemes over the past 10 years. the flat cap. Affordability is the concern, but we will High-speed rail has been a big issue in the debate this keep the matter under review, and see if it becomes afternoon, as ever. My hon. Friend the Member for more affordable in the future. South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom) spoke with The improvements that we have promised are extensive, her usual passion and articulacy on her concerns about and over the next four years the Government propose to high-speed rail, and I welcome the input of all colleagues invest £30 billion in transport, £14 billion of which will on this issue as it is one of the most important parts of support capital maintenance and investment in our the coalition’s programme to improve our railways. railways. Major projects that we are funding include Very soon we will start a major consultation on our high-speed rail, Crossrail, Thameslink, Birmingham New strategy for a Y-shaped High Speed 2 network, and I Street and the tube upgrades. In answer to the question can assure the shadow rail Minister, the hon. Member that the hon. Lady asked about carriages, we expect for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), that we are there to be about 2,100 new carriages on the rail network committed to taking this railway to the north of England, by 2019, of which about 1,850 will be additional capacity, in two delivery phases. Opponents of HS2 say that it and I shall go into a little more detail on carriages in a will not have a big impact on the north-south divide, the minute. important response to which is that they should look at the extensive support for the project in the north of Kelvin Hopkins: Will the right hon. Lady look into England, and also at the rest of Europe, where cities the fact that more than 100 mark 3 carriages could be such as Lille have been transformed as a result of the available immediately? We would only need to have new connectivity that can come with a high-speed link to a bogies to cope with the gauge difference with Ireland. capital city. The Irish need the money, I think. Demand for travel between our cities is expected to increase significantly, and there is an industry consensus Mrs Villiers: It is open to the train operators to lease that the west coast route will be full to capacity within additional capacity if they so wish, and they may well little more than a decade. The hon. Member for Blackpool be interested in exploring the option that the hon. North and Cleveleys indicated that there was some Gentleman outlines. contention about passenger growth figures, but everyone Substantial work is under way on the strategic freight accepts that there will be significant growth on the west network, and I have repeatedly paid tribute to the work coast main line. done on that by the previous Administration. I emphasise that rail freight plays a really significant part in our Andrea Leadsom: Will my right hon. Friend give way? strategy for reducing carbon emissions and relieving congestion, and that is why the coalition has prioritised Mrs Villiers: I am afraid that I really cannot. I do investment in projects such as the Felixstowe-Nuneaton apologise. gauge clearance. We will face severe congestion and overcrowding on The hon. Gentleman would like to see a dedicated those routes in years to come, unless we act now to freight line. I know his enthusiasm for that project and begin the process of delivering that capacity. am always happy to engage with him on it, but the freight industry as a whole prioritises the projects in the On the alternatives, upgrades of an existing line, even strategic freight network, rather than a dedicated line. If extensive ones, could deliver only half a new line’s the hon. Gentleman can make the case for going ahead capacity benefit and would be more expensive. My hon. with something like that in the future, I and my colleagues Friend asked whether 12-car trains would deliver the will of course be prepared to listen. equivalent capacity: no, they absolutely would not. The hon. Member for Luton North asked whether new On the regional balance, in making project funding signalling would deliver it, and the answer is the same. decisions it is important to take account of the needs of We are already introducing new capacity on existing different areas. Although the business case for rail investment lines, and there comes a point at which incremental in the south-east can often be stronger because of the changes do not deliver the upgrade needed. Moreover, sheer volumes of passengers, assessment of the business High Speed 2 will deliver the benefits of capacity released case is just one element in the decision-making process on the existing network, with major benefits for places and we can, and do, have regard to other factors, such as Milton Keynes, Luton, Northampton and including the appropriate balance of funding between Peterborough, and also for freight operators. different parts of the country. It is worth recognising that improvements in London and the south-east can I sincerely believe that careful mitigation can address yield benefits for the economy as a whole, but the north many of the most serious local impacts, and I know that of England will benefit directly from a whole range of my hon. Friend will continue to fight hard for her programmes that are under way, including faster journey constituents, who might be affected by the line. We times between Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds, additional welcome their involvement in the consultation process carriages, electrification, station improvements and on which we are about to embark, to ensure that we get important upgrades on the east coast main line, as well the right answers on high-speed rail and that we listen as the extension of light rail in Manchester and Newcastle, to the views of people affected by it. and in the longer term the north will benefit massively After 20 years of discussion, Crossrail is finally going from our high-speed rail plans. The tough decisions ahead. I hope that that answers those concerned that made in the spending review mean that we are able to High Speed 2 will swallow up all the funding available 385WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 386WH for rail. The hon. Gentleman complained that the Hitchin cost is essential. The Chairman of the Select Committee flyover might not go ahead as a result of the funding and the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) pressure on high-speed rail. It is under way, or will be rightly expressed concerns about the high cost of Network shortly, as it is in an investment programme to which Rail compared with other operators in Europe. We the Government have committed. We have confirmed recognise fully the concerns about rail fares. To answer that the Thameslink programme will proceed in full, the shadow Minister’s question, we believe that we despite anxiety that it might not. Some 1,200 new should share the benefits of the reduction in railway carriages will be delivered, almost doubling the number running costs that we expect the McNulty review to of north-south trains through the capital at peak times. deliver. They will be shared between fare payers and On the Derby factory and the procurement of the taxpayers. We are also clear that any changes suggested Thameslink trains, the hon. Member for Glasgow South by the McNulty review must protect freight operators’ tempted me to depart from the EU’s procurement rules. interests. I fear that I would find myself falling foul of the There is an important role for open access, as my European Communities Act 1972 if I did, so I will not hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and advocate failing to abide by our treaty obligations, but I Cleveleys urged me to make clear, although open access can assure the House that bids from UK-based operators is not necessarily his only hope of direct train services will be considered carefully and assessed fairly, objectively between Blackpool and London. No decisions have and equally. been made yet, but it is possible that that might form The Government expect an additional 650 carriages part of franchised operations. in several of our major cities by 2014. We expect services We are working closely on the northern hub. I recognise to be strengthened into Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, that there is a lot of support for it. Dealing with the Liverpool, Newcastle, Birmingham, Bristol—to answer problems identified in the project would be of great the concerns of the hon. Member for Chippenham benefit to the economy of the north of England. I (Duncan Hames)—London Paddington and London cannot give any guarantees today, but it must be a Waterloo. In addition, new Thameslink and Crossrail strong candidate for funding in the next control period. rolling stock will enable the redeployment of hundreds Hon. Members have supported a list of projects. On more existing electric carriages, strengthening the case the Swindon-Kemble line, if there were any spare funding for further electrification of our network. I hope that down the DFT’s sofa, as the hon. Member for Cheltenham that responds to the concerns expressed about the quality asked, I am sure that Swindon-Kemble would be a good of rolling stock in the north. The hon. Member for candidate. However, he will appreciate that our rail Bolton West (Julie Hilling) rightly raised concerns about budgets are fully committed. He made a good point the quality of that rolling stock and the notorious Pacer about the improvements to resilience that the project trains. We believe that our programme of new rolling would deliver. The hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside stock will help address those concerns. mentioned the midland main line. There is a strong As the Chancellor confirmed in his Budget speech, business case for it, but again, affordability is a concern. lines between Liverpool, Manchester, Preston and I am always happy to talk about Kirkstall Forge, and I Blackpool will be electrified. The redeployment of electric look forward to the revised bid, which I believe will be rolling stock to those routes will in turn free up hundreds made in September. It is a good scheme with significant of diesel units, which will be available for train operators benefits, and I hope that one day it will proceed. We will to lease after 2015. In November, the Secretary of State have to see whether it proves affordable, given our announced that Network Rail will electrify routes on budget constraints. the Great Western main line from London to Didcot, I am grateful for the time allowed me to speak in this Oxford and Newbury.We expect to make an announcement debate. shortly on the further electrification of that line. We have decided to press ahead with plans to buy a new 5.36 pm fleet of trains to replace most of the high-speed trains Mrs Ellman: Thank you for chairing this important operating on the Great Western and east coast lines. We and interesting debate, Mr Owen. I thank the Minister have narrowed down the options to two, and we hope to for her response. I am pleased to see my hon. Friend the give the House more information in the near future. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) The hon. Member for Luton South and others were acting so effectively in his new position. We have had a concerned about stations. We are continuing with the constructive debate, and I thank all hon. Members who £150 million national stations improvement programme have participated, including Select Committee members and the £370 million access for all programme, including and others who find the issue important enough to have £2.3 million to be spent on a scheme at Luton. spent time and spoken here. The range of contributions underlines the importance of investment in our railways. Gavin Shuker: Will the Minister give way? Contributions have addressed the importance of investment in local stations, of local services and of developing Mrs Villiers: I am afraid that I cannot. I have run out capacity, whether in local, regional or high-speed rail of time. Birmingham New Street will go ahead, hopefully services. I listened carefully to the Minister’s response. delivering economic benefits of £2 billion. Improvements She has given some assurances. The Select Committee at Reading will address a long-standing bottleneck, will be following up the promises and commitments benefiting people across the Great Western line. that she made, and will take up the various points raised The Chairman of the Select Committee and others by hon. Members. are absolutely right to say that it is crucial to get better The report that we have been debating was concluded value for taxpayers’ and passengers’ funding of the a year ago, but it is significant how highly relevant many railways. Reforming our railways and reducing their of its recommendations and the issues that it raised are 387WH Rail Investment17 FEBRUARY 2011 Rail Investment 388WH

[Mrs Louise Ellman] Mrs Ellman: I thank my hon. Friend for his comments. The Select Committee takes rail investment extremely today. The Select Committee’s work is enhanced by the seriously and will give the McNulty report full consideration involvement of many Members. I assure all hon. Members in due course, along with the Government’s White here that we will be pursuing all the points that they Paper on the future of rail. Value for money in our rail have raised in our questions to Ministers and others service is intrinsically linked to the structure of rail and responsible for delivering our services, and in new inquiries. is the best way to deliver an effective service in terms of I thank everybody for their constructive participation. passengers and freight. John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab): I Question put and agreed to. apologise for coming so late. We were engaged in debate in the main Chamber. When the McNulty report is published, I urge the Select Committee to consider it in detail and give us the opportunity for a further 5.39 pm debate based on the Committee’s consideration of the recommendations. Sitting adjourned. 91WS Written Ministerial Statements17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 92WS Written Ministerial COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Council Tax Benefit Statements The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Thursday 17 February 2011 Government (Mr Eric Pickles): The spending review 2010 announced that Government would localise council tax benefit from 2013-14, and reduce its costs by 10%. The Welfare Reform Bill, published today, took the first step TREASURY in that direction by taking enabling powers to abolish council tax benefit. Further changes will follow to establish the new system from 2013-14. Financial Regulation I can confirm that the Government remain committed to retaining council tax support for the most vulnerable in society and that they will be taking forward plans for The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark councils to develop local rebate schemes. This reform is Hoban): The Government have today presented to part of the decentralisation agenda. It will create stronger Parliament a consultation document, “A new approach incentives for councils to get people back into work and to financial regulation: building a stronger system” so support the positive work incentives that will be (Cm 8012), which provides further detail on the coalition introduced through the Government’s plans on universal Government’s proposals to reform the framework of credit. financial regulation in the UK following the complete Full consultation on the system of local council tax failure of the tripartite system over many years to rebate schemes will be undertaken in due course, led by identify or tackle the build up of risk in the financial the Department for Communities and Local Government. system. That failure precipitated the biggest financial Parliament will have the final say on any new regime in crisis for a generation, leading to a run on a major England. The Government will discuss the devolved high-street bank and the part-nationalisation of two of implications with the Scottish Government, the Welsh the largest banks in the world. We need a wholly new Assembly Government and the Northern Ireland Executive. approach. The reforms detailed today will address the Combined with other incentives—such as the new fundamental weakness of the regulatory system, created homes bonus and our proposals for the local retention in 1997. This document is available on the Treasury of business rates—these changes will give councils a website. greater stake in the economic future of their local area, This document expands and further consults on the so supporting the Government’s wider agenda to enable Government’s proposals, set out last year, to disband stronger, balanced economic growth across the country. the Financial Services Authority and establish a new system of more specialised and focused financial services Decent Homes Programme regulators. The Government’s reforms focus on three key institutional changes: the creation of an independent The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant Financial Policy Committee (FPC) in the Bank of England, Shapps): In a difficult spending review the Government the establishment of a new Prudential Regulation Authority were pleased to announce that they will invest over (PRA) as a subsidiary of the bank, and the creation £2.1 billion of capital funding over the next four years of an independent conduct of business regulator, the to help towards completing the decent homes programme, Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), which was formerly including £1.595 billion in the council housing sector. provisionally titled the consumer protection and markets Some £0.5 billion will be allocated to continue to fund authority. This corrects the failures of the past by housing associations that have already taken on the creating regulators with clear objectives and the powers ownership and management of ex-council housing stock. needed to deliver them. This reflects the Government’s commitment to fairness, “A new approach to financial regulation: building a protecting the most vulnerable people in our society stronger system” outlines the Government’s thinking on and as far as possible protecting front line services. This a range of issues, including: the objectives of the new funding will help to refurbish over 150,000 council regulatory bodies and the factors which they must homes, improving the lives of thousands of residents. It consider in fulfilling their objectives; the levers and will also help ensure that all councils can deliver a likely tools the FPC will have at its disposal to protect sustainable 30-year business plan under self-financing. financial stability; the PRA’s judgment-led approach in I previously announced that the Government wanted regulating firms; the FCA’s more proactive and focused to be fairer in their approach to all, by being less rigid approach to regulating conduct in financial services and about local structures that would be eligible for funding markets; accountability measures for the new regulatory than the last Government. As a result the Homes and bodies; and co-ordination mechanisms which will determine Communities Agency (HCA) published proposals for how the regulatory authorities will work together, and managing the funding allocation process in a consultation with regulated firms. Our reforms will create a stronger document. Following this the agency sent out an invitation regulatory structure which reinforces stability in financial to bid to all councils and ALMOs. markets and helps deliver better outcomes for consumers. The HCA received bids from 70 authorities for a total Following the consultation, the Government will present of £2.7 billion. Therefore there has had to be a rigorous a further White Paper including a draft Bill for pre-legislative assessment process conducted by the HCA, in consultation scrutiny in the spring. The Government expect the new with the Mayor for London, in order to live within the regulatory structure to be in place by the end of 2012. available budget. 93WS Written Ministerial Statements17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 94WS

Today, I am announcing jointly with the HCA the 24 December. We received some 470 responses from funding for 2011-12 and 2012-13 and indicative funding local authorities, representative groups, MPs and individuals. allocations for 2013-14 and 2014-15. Not all bids have The responses gave widespread support to the principles been funded. Those that have not been funded are of the scheme and the broad scheme design. After where the level of non-decency is not as great, is less considering all responses I am announcing the final long standing, or could potentially be funded by greater scheme design and implementation. Copies of the efficiency savings by the authority especially within the consultation response document and the final scheme greater freedoms and flexibilities of the system of self- design document have been placed in the Library of the financing after April 2012. Some bids will be funded at House. a reduced level in line with the criteria in the invitation The new homes bonus is designed to address the to bid and may be funded on a later time scale than bid disincentive within the local government finance system for in order to live within the budget. Only those bids for local areas to welcome growth. Until now, increased where the authority has made a strong case for investment housing in communities has meant increased strain on need and already demonstrated significant cost reductions public services and reduced amenities. The new homes will receive levels of funding close to their bid. Although bonus will remove this disincentive by providing local there will be more to do, today’s decent homes funding authorities with the means to mitigate the strain the will go a long way to making all homes decent for their increased population causes. In addition, in doing so tenants. the new homes bonus should help engender a more A table showing the funding allocated has been placed positive attitude to growth, and create an environment in the Library of the House. in which new housing is more readily accepted. The new homes bonus scheme will be a powerful, Local Enterprise Partnerships simple and transparent incentive. Commencing in April 2011, the bonus will match fund the additional council The Secretary of State for Communities and Local tax potential from increases in effective housing stock, Government (Mr Eric Pickles): I, together with the with an additional amount for affordable homes, for the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, following six years. It will ensure that the economic would like to inform the House that, following the benefits of housing growth are more visible to the local submission to form a local enterprise partnership, we authorities and communities where growth takes place. have today written to the Mayor of London and to But housing growth is not just about new units. It is London councils inviting them to put their governance also about best use of existing stock. For this reason, we arrangements in place. have designed new homes bonus to measure increases in Local enterprise partnerships will be important drivers effective stock—the change in total number of homes of growth in the future, bringing together local businesses and change in empty homes. Empty homes contribute and elected leaders to create the right conditions for to blight, are a local eyesore and can be a source of growth. They see a real power shift away from central local opposition to new homes. But they can also play Government and quangos and towards local communities an important role in increasing available housing—data and the local businesses who really understand the suggest the average number of long-term privately owned barriers to enterprise in their areas. This announcement empty homes over the past five years is around 300,000. brings the total number of partnerships so far invited to Of these between 100,000 and 130,000 are in areas of put their governance arrangements in place to 31—nearly strong housing demand. 90% of the country. We will continue to work with other areas with a view to establishing further local enterprise The balance between market and affordable homes is partnerships across England. crucial—therefore the bonus will provide an additional £350 for each affordable home for the following six years. This means that the bonus available for an affordable New Homes Bonus home will be up to 36% more than for a similar market home. The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant The new homes bonus will be unring-fenced. This Shapps): Today, I am announcing the final design of the flexible funding will allow the benefits of housing growth new homes bonus. The new homes bonus will fulfil the to be returned to those communities affected by growth Government’s coalition agreement commitment to provide in a way which best meets local need. Local authorities local authorities with real incentives to deliver housing will need to lead the debate with their communities to growth. determine local spending priorities. This is a key part of our ambition, set out in the “Local Growth” White Paper, to create a fairer and The Department for Communities and Local more balanced economy through encouraging growth. Government has set aside almost £l billion over the The role of local areas in this rebalancing of growth is spending review period for the scheme, including some crucial—localities are best placed to understand drivers £200 million in 2011-12 or year one. From year two, and barriers to local growth and should lead their own funding beyond these levels will come from formula development to release their economic potential. In so grant. doing they should be able to benefit directly from the These radical reforms demonstrate our commitment development they bring forward. to seeing a major upswing in housing to meet Britain’s On 12 November I wrote to English MPs and housing need and seeing more homes that people want local authority leaders announcing a consultation on in the places that people want them. We also want to see implementation of this commitment through the proposals greater housing market stability, where house price rises for the new homes bonus. The consultation closed on are more in line with earnings growth. However, we will 95WS Written Ministerial Statements17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 96WS not impose this through top-down targets which attempt personality disorder programme, introduced by the previous to dictate where growth happens, but too often produce Administration, and are aimed to improve identification little but hostility. and assessment, increase treatment capacity, provide They will be complemented by reforms to the community additional psychological support in prisons, and strengthen infrastructure levy, which will incentivise growth by oversight for those released from custody. providing authorities with a powerful new tool to secure This consultation is an important opportunity for contributions from development to deliver the infrastructure professional bodies, service providers in health and that communities need to make that growth acceptable criminal justice, patients and the public to comment on and sustainable. The local government resource review how best to ensure continuity of care through the will consider how business growth can be incentivised. development of effective service pathways across custodial This framework will encourage local authorities and settings and in the community, to improve care, protect communities to increase their ambitions for housing the public and make the best use possible of the available and economic growth, and to take the lead in managing resources. This consultation sets out the Government’s the way in which villages, towns and cities develop. initial thoughts and invites views from interested persons The new homes bonus also sits alongside the existing or organisations. framework for making planning decisions. Responsibility The consultation document has been placed in the will remain with local authorities to work within this Library. Copies are available to hon. Members from the framework to continue to ensure that development is Vote Office and to noble Lords from the Printed Paper suitable and sustainable by meeting local needs and Office. national planning policy. Further information on the new homes bonus final WORK AND PENSIONS scheme design can be found at: http://www.communities. gov.uk/housing/housingsupply/newhomesbonus. Sickness Absence We will continue to provide advice on the scheme via the [email protected] email The Minister of State, Department for Work and account. Pensions (Chris Grayling): I wish to inform the House that, today, the Department for Work and Pensions, DEFENCE together with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills will be launching an independent review of sickness absence in Great Britain. Supplementary Estimates It is estimated that around 300,000 people (approximately 1% of the employed population) move on to sickness-related The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox): benefits (incapacity benefit or employment and support The Ministry of Defence “Supplementary VotesA Estimate allowance) each year. These individuals make up a 2010-11” will be laid before the House on 17 February sizeable proportion of long-term sickness absences and 2011 as HC 777. This outlines the maximum numbers around half of the total flow on to ESA every year. of personnel to be maintained for each service in the They constitute a significant cost to taxpayers, in addition armed forces during financial year 2010-11. to the costs incurred by employers covering absences, and the opportunity costs to the economy in missing Supplementary Estimates out on the contribution of these individuals. In conjunction with the Minister responsible for employment relations, consumer and postal affairs, the The Secretary of State for Defence (Dr Liam Fox): Under-Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and The Ministry of Defence “Votes A Estimate 2011-12” Skills, my hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and will be laid before the House on 17 February 2011 as Surbiton (Mr Davey), I have invited Dame Carol Black, HC 769. This outlines the maximum numbers of personnel the national director for health and work, and David to be maintained for each service in the armed forces Frost, current director general of the British Chambers during financial year 2011-12. of Commerce, to co-chair an independent review of sickness absence to establish how we can mitigate the HEALTH economic losses, as well providing effective support for those who would benefit from our help. The report will Offender Personality Disorder be jointly sponsored by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Department for Work and Pensions. The review will explore how the current The Minister of State, Department of Health (Paul system could be changed to help more people stay in Burstow): I am publishing today a joint Department of work, thereby reducing costs. In addition, the review Health and Ministry of Justice consultation document will examine whether the balance of these costs are on an “Offender personality disorder pathway appropriately shared and make recommendations for implementation plan”. reform. This document sets out the Government’s plans to The coalition Government are committed to reducing reshape services, interventions and treatments for offenders the burden of regulation of business in line with the with severe personality disorders. These plans would be objectives of the growth agenda. The sickness absence implemented within the existing resources devoted to review will be conducted in this context, as well as this area across the national health service and National informing the work of the existing employment law Offender Management Service. The proposals take review.As such, the sickness absence review will complement account of the learning from the dangerous and severe the Government’s ongoing welfare reform agenda.

887W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 888W

the city of Bradford metropolitan district council area, on Written Answers to 29 June 2010; the Bournemouth borough council area, from 6 to 8 July 2010; Questions the Liverpool city council area, on 19 July 2010; the Southampton city council area, on 28 July 2010; and the Birmingham city council area, on 20 January 2011. Thursday 17 February 2011 The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant Shapps) has visited: the London borough of Wandsworth area, on 20 May 2010; COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT the Swindon borough council area, on 27 May 2010; Affordable Housing: Construction the Leeds city council area, on 24 June 2010; the Welywn Hatfield council area, on 15 July 2010 and 7 December 2010; Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for the London borough of Southwark area, on 19 July 2010; Communities and Local Government how many affordable housing units he expects to have been completed in the the Reading borough council area on 6 July 2010 London borough of Bexley in (a) 2010-11 and (b) the Birmingham city council area, on 22 September 2010; 2011-12. [41403] the Kettering borough council area, on 11 November 2010; the London borough of Westminster area, on 24 November Andrew Stunell: The Department does not forecast 2010; levels of future house building, and delivery will be the London borough of Haringey area, on 7 December 2010; determined by local housing plans. the Manchester city council and Salford city council area, on We launched the Framework for the Affordable Homes 31 January 2011; and Programme on 14 February 2011. There is almost the London borough of Lambeth area on 2 February 2011. £4.5 billion investment in new affordable housing to The Minister for Decentralisation (Greg Clark) has visited: deliver up to 150,000 new affordable homes. The actual the London borough of Wandsworth area on 25 June 2010; number of homes delivered in each year will be dependent the Liverpool city council area, on 19 July 2010; on agreements between registered providers and the Homes and Communities Agency in consultation with the Bristol city council area, on 26 July 2010; and local authorities. Providers have until 3 May 2011 to the Bradford city council area, on 29 July 2010. submit delivery proposals to the agency. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Robert Neill) has visited: Councillors the Solihull metropolitan borough council area, on 18 June 2010; Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for the Maidstone borough council area, on 23 August 2010; Communities and Local Government whether his the Wirral council area, on 13 September 2010; Department issues guidance to local councils wishing the Thurrock council area, on 20 September 2010; to reduce the number of councillors. [41402] the London borough of Barnet area, on 23 September 2010; Robert Neill: No. The size of principal councils is a the Southend-on-Sea borough council area, on 30 September matter for the independent Local Government Boundary 2010; Commission for England, which is directly responsible the Bristol city council area, on 8 October 2010; to Parliament. the Gloucester city council area, on 14 October 2010; Guidance about electoral reviews, including issues the Swale borough council area on 25 October 2010; about council size, is available on the Commission’s the Preston city council area, on 3 November 2010; and website. the city of Derby area, on 20 January 2011. Departmental Domestic Visits The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Andrew Stunell) has visited: Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for the St Albans city and district council area, on 1 July 2010; Communities and Local Government what the date was the Bournemouth borough council area, from 6 to 7 July 2010; of each ministerial visit to each local authority area the Woking borough council area, on 19 July 2010; since May 2010. [38617] the Liverpool city council area, on 23 July 2010 and 2 December 2010; Robert Neill [holding answer 7 February 2011]: Further the Bristol city council area, on 26 July 2010; to the answer I gave the right hon. Member on 21 the Bradford metropolitan district council area, on 29 July December 2010, Official Report, column 1308W, since 2010; May 2010, the following ministerial visits have been made by the Secretary of State for Communities and the High Peak borough council area, on 13 September 2010; Local Government, my right hon. Friend the Member the Cambridge city council area, on 22 November 2010; for Brentwood and Ongar (Mr Pickles), and his ministerial the Manchester city council area, on 6 December 2010, 18 January team: 2011 and 31 January 2011; The Secretary of State for Communities and Local the London borough of Merton council area, on 7 December Government has visited: 2010; the royal borough of Windsor and Maidenhead council area, the Somerset county council area, on 10 January 2011; and on 7 June 2010; the Birmingham city council area, on 22 January 2011. 889W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 890W

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Baroness Robert Neill: The Localism Bill will ensure that Hanham) has visited: neighbourhood development orders and Community the Bournemouth borough council area, from 6 to 7 July 2010; Right to Build orders appropriately fit with national the Nottingham city council area, on 23 July 2010; planning policy. In particular, it requires these orders to be “appropriate having regard to national policy” before the Hampshire county council area, on 2 August 2010; they can come into force. the Sheffield city council area, on 4 August 2010; This would include national policy on Green Belt. In the Essex county council area, on 8 October 2010; December we announced the start of work to create a the Manchester city council area, on 12 October 2010; National Planning Policy Framework. As part of this, the Birmingham city council area, on 11 November 2010; we will consider how best to update Green Belt policy, the Kettering borough council area, on 13 January 2011; currently set out in PPG2 (Planning Policy Guidance the Manchester city council area, on 20 January 2011; and Note 2, Green Belts). Local planning authorities must the Bristol city council area, on 10 February 2011. have regard to PPG2 in writing development plans or deciding planning proposals affecting Green Belt. PPG2 Departmental Public Appointments establishes a presumption against inappropriate development on Green Belt land, and states the importance of keeping Green Belt land permanently open to prevent Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for the sprawl of development. Communities and Local Government how many (a) The coalition agreement commits the Government to women and (b) men have been appointed to public maintaining Green Belt protection. Abolition of regional duties by his Department since May 2010. [35396] strategies through the Localism Bill will also help protect the Green Belt by removing top down directives to Robert Neill: I have interpreted appointments to “public review or weaken Green Belt protection in over 30 duties” to mean the same as “public appointments”. I towns across England. therefore refer the hon. Member to the answer given on 8 February 2011, Official Report, column 174W. Housing: Overcrowding

Fire Services: Cambridgeshire Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for households approached each local authority for Communities and Local Government if he will assess homelessness assistance on the grounds that overcrowding the effect on service provision of the update of the (a) made it unreasonable for them to continue to occupy regression expenditure base for the funding formula their property in each of the last five years; and for how and (b) fire risk index based on a positively weighted many such households the main homelessness duty was population density indicator for Cambridgeshire Fire accepted by each local authority in each of the last five and Rescue Service from 2011-12; and if he will make a years. [41597] statement. [41492] Andrew Stunell: The information requested is not Robert Neill: Exemplifications of the effect of particular held by the Department. changes to the formula for formula grant, including those referred to in (a) and (b) are contained in the Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010 summer consultation document available on the Communities and Local Government which local Department for Communities and Local Government’s authorities award reasonable preference to overcrowded website at: households in their allocations policy where overcrowding http://www.local.communities.gov.uk/finance/1112/sumcon/ is based on the definition of overcrowding set out in the index.htm Housing Act 1985. [41598] Exemplifications of the effect of updating the regression Andrew Stunell: The information requested is not expenditure base are contained in chapters 3, 5 and 6. held centrally and could be provided only at Exemplification of the effect of using the population disproportionate cost. density indicator in the fire risk index is contained in chapter 5. Private Rented Housing: Housing Benefit Green Belt Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what steps he Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for has taken to ensure closer working between private Communities and Local Government (1) if he will landlords and housing benefit administrators. [41517] make it his policy to ensure that (a) proposed neighbourhood development orders and (b) other proposed Andrew Stunell: The Government have a comprehensive orders enabling a community right to build do not programme of financial and practical support in place allow development other than in accordance with Planning to help local authorities deliver the changes to the local Policy Guidance Note 2; [41539] housing allowance in 2011, including £190 million of (2) if he will take steps to maintain the level of additional funding to smooth the transition. The protection for the Green Belt provided for in Planning Department for Communities and Local Government Policy Guidance Note 2 in any future review of (DCLG) has provided £10 million additional homelessness planning policy and guidance. [41540] grant funding. This will help local authorities in London 891W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 892W to work with private landlords, for example, to encourage over the management of their homes and estates from them to accept housing benefit tenants and offer “rent their landlord have a statutory right to do so under the bond” schemes. Housing Act 1985. The Housing (Right to Manage) The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has (England) Regulations 2008 set out the procedures to increased discretionary housing payments by £130 million, be followed. Tenants of housing associations can enter and provided a further £50 million to support the into a voluntary agreement with their landlord if they transitional stages of change. DWP is temporarily extending wish to manage their housing. The Minister for Housing local authority discretion to make direct payments of and Local Government, my right hon. Friend the Member housing benefit to landlords when they agree to reduce for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps), recently announced rents to an affordable level. Detailed guidance on the plans to make it easier for local authority tenants to application of this safeguard will be issued to local exercise their right to manage, as well as an £8 million authorities shortly. More broadly, local authorities have programme to empower social tenants. continued to improve the time taken to decide new housing benefit claims. In the second quarter of 2010-11, Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for new claims in Great Britain were decided in an average Communities and Local Government what steps he is of 22 days, compared to 25 days in the same quarter of taking to reduce the incidence and severity of 2009-10. antisocial behaviour in social housing. [41457]

Private Rented Housing: Standards Andrew Stunell: The Minister for Housing and Local Government, my right hon. Friend the Member for Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps), announced on 11 January for Communities and Local Government what recent proposals to strengthen the hand of social landlords steps he has taken to ensure that properties in the and tenants in tackling antisocial behaviour. Those private rented sector meet minimum health and safety proposals include making it easier for landlords to take swift and decisive action against their most antisocial standards required. [41516] tenants by introducing a new additional mandatory Andrew Stunell: Local authorities have extensive powers ground for possession for serious housing-related antisocial to take action against landlords who fail to maintain behaviour; greater flexibility on the use of probationary their properties. Under the Housing Health and Safety tenancies; and new funding for an antisocial behaviour Rating System, local authorities can assess properties action team focused on tenant capacity building. against 29 different hazards. If a property is found to More widely, the Government are currently consulting contain serious ‘category 1’ hazards, the local authority on proposals to streamline and improve the existing has a duty to take action, which could include enforcement toolkit available to the police, social landlords and action against the landlord. others to tackle antisocial behaviour. The proposals are The Government are satisfied that the current legislation intended to better protect victims and communities provides an important safety net, ensuring that homes from the serious harm caused by criminal and antisocial are safe and decent and achieves the right balance behaviour by making the tools faster, more flexible, and between the rights and obligations of landlords and more effective. tenants. The Government have no plans to impose new Travellers: Caravan Sites regulatory requirements on private landlords. This would be likely to lead to a reduction in the numbers of properties to rent and/or force up rents, which would Bob Stewart: To ask the Secretary of State for not help tenants or landlords. Communities and Local Government if he will bring forward proposals to strengthen civil law relating to Residents’ Associations trespass in order to tackle unauthorised Traveller sites on privately owned land. [41268]

Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Robert Neill: As outlined in the Secretary of State’s Communities and Local Government what information press notice of 29 August 2010, unauthorised developments he holds on the number of residents’ associations in have created tensions between Travellers and the settled each parliamentary constituency. [41235] population. We want to redress the balance and put fairness back into communities. The Localism Bill includes Andrew Stunell: This Department does not hold the provisions to strengthen councils’ powers on planning information requested. enforcement, and we are reviewing further steps that DCLG does not collect information about the number can be taken against unauthorised encampments. of residents’ associations, though we would estimate that there are many hundreds across the country. Voluntary Organisations: Finance

Social Rented Housing Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what support his Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for Department provides to voluntary organisations which Communities and Local Government what his policy is are facing closure or reduction in service delivery owing on the management of estates by social tenants. [41449] to reductions in funding. [39371]

Andrew Stunell: The Government want to see more Andrew Stunell [holding answer 10 February 2011]: social tenants able to take control over the management Spending decisions are, and will continue to be, a matter of their homes. Local authority tenants wishing to take for local authorities. We have a rich diversity of voluntary 893W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 894W organisations, charities, faith groups, cooperatives, social HEALTH enterprises and local housing trusts—all of which already make a huge contribution to local life. I do not expect Cancer Drugs Fund local authorities to pass on disproportionate cuts to other service providers, especially the voluntary sector. Mr Liddell-Grainger: To ask the Secretary of State The Minister for Decentralisation, the right hon. for Health what criteria strategic health authorities use Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), wrote to all to grant funding from the interim Cancer Drugs Fund. local authority leaders on 4 February: [41570] asking them to share examples of the positive approaches that they have taken to work with the sector, with a view to my Mr Simon Burns: I refer my hon. Friend to the Department drawing upon such approaches to highlight and written answer I gave him on 25 January 2011, Official promote best practice; and Report, column 224W. proposing to require all local authorities to publish details about their contractual grants and payments to the sector. This Carers: Grandparents greater transparency would help local small businesses, community groups and social enterprises to become more competitive in Stuart Andrew: To ask the Secretary of State for bidding for and delivering local services to local people. Health what provision his Department has made to We are also, through the Localism Bill, taking forward support grandparents who are the primary carers of our ‘Rights’ agenda. The Bill, which is presently at their disabled grandchildren. [39257] Committee stage, includes a community right to challenge. This will enable voluntary and community bodies, as Paul Burstow: This Government recognise the valuable well as parish councils and local authority employees role played by many grandparents who care for their wishing to deliver the service as mutual, to express an disabled grandchildren, in order to allow the parents of interest in running a local authority service, which may the disabled child to continue to work or to take a break trigger a procurement exercise for that service. from caring. The Bill also contains provisions for a community While there is no specific provision available to support right to buy, which will enable communities to identify grandparent carers, on 25 November 2010, the and nominate assets of community value in their local Government’s updated Carers Strategy, “Recognised, areas for listing by the local authority. When these valued and supported: Next steps for the Carers Strategy”, assets come up for sale, voluntary and community set out the overarching priority areas for action over the groups will be given extra time to prepare a business next four years. This includes the provision of personalised case and be ready to bid for the asset when it goes on the support for carers and those they support, and supporting open market. carers to remain mentally and physically well. This can We intend to develop a package of support to assist include grandparents caring for their disabled grandchildren. voluntary and community sector groups to take up To back these commitments up, the Department will both of these rights and we are consulting on what this be investing additional funding of £400 million to the support might look like. national health service over the next four years to enable more carers to take breaks from their caring responsibilities, which may include grandparents in caring roles. This money will not be ring fenced, but for 2011-12, primary care trusts should agree policies, plans SCOTLAND and budgets to support carers with local authorities and local carers’ organisations, and make them available to Private Rented Housing: Fines local people. The Department has also made funding available for Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for general practitioner training, to increase their awareness Scotland what discussions he has had with the Scottish and understanding of all carers’ health needs, including Executive on the use of funds received from fines grandparents, so that they can receive appropriate support. rendered against private landlords in Scotland. [41431] The Department for Education announced in December that they are providing over £800 million over the next Michael Moore: The Economic Secretary to the Treasury four years for short breaks for families of disabled has recently written to the Scottish Ministers on this children as part of the new Early Intervention Grant. matter. The Government will be providing £198 million/£202 million/£206 million/£210 million for short breaks over Scotland Bill the next four years including the Child Trust Fund money of at least £20 million each year. The Early Intervention Grant is not ring fenced and it will be for Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for local authorities to determine how they use that resource Scotland what plans he has to publish the correspondence to best effect, including what services would be funded on the Scotland Bill between his Department and the for families with disabled children. Scottish Government. [41129] Chlamydia: Screening David Mundell: The UK Government have no plans to publish their correspondence with the Scottish Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Government. The UK Government believe it is important Health what requirements will be placed on primary to continue to respect the confidentiality of inter- care trusts in respect of the delivery of the national administration discussions. Chlamydia screening programme for 2011-12. [41577] 895W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 896W

Anne Milton: We are committed to continuing Diabetes as a opportunistic Chlamydia testing among 15 to 24-year-olds Department of proportion of in some form in 2011-12, but are considering how it can Diabetes Health gross gross be enhanced. expenditure expenditure (£ expenditure (£ billion) billion) (percentage) On 20 December 2010, we published the consultation document ‘Healthy Lives, Healthy People: Transparency 2004-05 0.69 71.92 1.0 in Outcomes, Proposals for a Public Health Outcomes 2005-06 0.87 80.19 1.1 Framework’. The new framework will be in operation 2006-07 1.04 84.19 1.2 from April 2012. This includes a proposed indicator on 2007-08 1.15 93.18 1.2 reducing Chlamydia diagnoses rates among 15 to 24-year- 2008-09 1.26 96.81 1.3 olds. A copy of the consultation document has already 2009-10 1.43 103.97 1.4 been placed in the Library. In 2011-12, the national health service will continue In 2009-10, 35.5 million items were prescribed for to lead on improvements to public health, ensuring that diabetes at a net ingredient cost (NIC) of £649.2 million. public health services are in the strongest possible position This represents 7.7% of the total cost of prescribing in when responsibilities are devolved to local authorities. primary care in England in 2009-10, compared to £458.6 million (5.8%) in 2004-05. NHS organisations will continue to be held to account against the existing public health indicators, which includes The NIC is the basic cost of a drug. It does not take Chlamydia screening. account of discounts, dispensing costs, fees or prescription charges income. Further expenditure will have taken place throughout Departmental Contracts the NHS system that is not possible to identify.

Jon Trickett: To ask the Secretary of State for Health General Practitioners pursuant to his answer of 27 January 2011, Official Report, columns 458-60W, on departmental contracts, Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for what services were provided under each contract Health whether he plans to issue guidance to GP funded from the public purse and awarded by single consortia on the commissioning of fracture prevention tender. [40997] services. [41281]

Mr Simon Burns: The information to complete the Paul Burstow: One of the NHS Commissioning Board’s table on the date, type, supplier name and amount of five main functions, set out in “Equity and Excellence: every single tender contract awarded in the written Liberating the NHS”, is answer of 27 January 2011, Official Report, columns ’Providing national leadership on commissioning for quality 458-60W, is extracted from the Department’s central improvement’. payments database. For each payment there is also an This will include setting commissioning guidelines on entry under a heading ‘Item description’. However, the basis of clinically approval quality standards developed these are mostly only very brief or partial. To establish with the advice of National Institute for Health and the precise details of what the payment related to would Clinical Excellence (NICE). NICE has been commissioned mean contacting the individual branches within the to develop a Quality Standard on Hip fractures, and a Department which commissioned the service in the first Quality Standard on Fractures excluding head and hip place. They would in turn have to consider exemptions is planned, subject to further work on the feasibility and under the Freedom of Information Act. For these reasons scope. the information requested could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Subject to the passage of the Health and Social Care Bill, currently before Parliament, the NHS Commissioning Board will have responsibility for supporting general Diabetes: Health Services practitioner consortia in their commissioning role. It will be for the Board to decide what, if any, guidance to issue on the commissioning of fracture prevention services. Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what estimate has been made of the cost to the Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for NHS of treatment of diabetes and diabetes-related Health if he will estimate (a) the number of fragility conditions in each year since 2005. [41479] fractures which would be prevented and (b) the net cost savings to the NHS that would be achieved in an Paul Burstow: Diabetes is a complex life-long condition average GP consortia patient population through the that can affect every part of the body. There are a introduction of a commissioned falls and fracture care number of associated complications with the condition pathway. [41282] which makes it difficult to calculate the exact total cost to the national health service. Paul Burstow: The most recent estimate of the extent The Department of Health’s programme budget figures to which fragility fractures could be prevented for a indicate £1.43 billion of the Department’s gross expenditure certain population through the introduction of a falls in England in 2009-10 was spent on diabetes. This figure and fracture care pathway (also known as a fracture does not include spending on prevention or on general liaison service), and the consequent savings to the national medical services or primary medical services. health service, is set out in “Fracture prevention services: 897W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 898W

An economic evaluation”, which was published by the Paul Burstow: Personality disorders are common Department in 2009. A copy has been placed in the conditions, with differing levels of severity.The Department Library. does not routinely collect information about personality disorders but estimates suggest between 2 and 5 million Health Services: Prices people in the United Kingdom have or are at risk of developing personality disorder. Information about the Fabian Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for diagnostic classification of users of mental health services Health what evidence his Department has evaluated on is not collected centrally. the effect of variable price competition on the health The national health service and national offender care market. [40655] management service plan to reconfigure existing services to manage high risk, sexual or violent offenders whose Mr Simon Burns: The Health and Social Care Bill offending is linked to severe forms of personality disorder. will not introduce variable price competition into the The implementation plan for these changes is subject to market for national health service-funded services. The a consultation by the Department and the Ministry of Government’s view on the evidence relating to this issue Justice. Details can be found at: is set out in the Impact Assessment published alongside www.dh.gov.uk/en/Consultations/Liveconsultations/ the Health and Social Care Bill on 19 January and DH_124435 available on the Department’s website at: www.dh.gov.uk/en/Publicationsandstatistics/Publications/ NHS Foundation Trusts: Debts PublicationsLegislation/DH_123583 Michael Connarty: To ask the Secretary of State for Horse Meat Health if he will bring forward legislative proposals to prevent a foundation trust from selling its property to Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Health offset short-term financial deficits. [41205] how many horses were slaughtered for food in each of the last five years. [40847] Mr Simon Burns: The Government intend to liberate foundation trusts so they can be free to focus on improving Mr Paice: I have been asked to reply. outcomes, be more responsive to patients and innovate. The Food Standards Agency has reported that the Under proposals in the Health Bill, the disposal of total number of horses slaughtered at the three abattoirs property would primarily be an issue for the foundation operating in Great Britain that are licensed to slaughter trust itself. As the representatives of the public and horses for human consumption in each of the last five staff, foundation trust governors would have the final years was as follows: say in all transactions defined as significant in the foundation trust’s constitution. The governors’ role would Number of horses slaughtered be to represent the interests of members and the public and to hold the non-executive directors to account for 2006 3,809 the performance of the board. 2007 3,859 We intend to establish an operationally independent 2008 3,812 banking function to manage the taxpayers’ investment 2009 5,147 in foundation trusts. It would set conditions on a foundation 2010 7,933 trust’s debt, that could include restrictions on the disposal of property to maintain the value of the taxpayers’ Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Health investment. how many horses slaughtered for food (a) were The new legislation would also place Monitor under thoroughbreds and (b) had horse passports in each of a duty, in its proposed role as economic regulator, to the last five years. [40909] support commissioners in ensuring the continuity of national health service services designated by commissioners Mr Paice: I have been asked to reply. for additional regulation. These services and related Records relating to slaughtered horses are not held assets would be protected. Monitor would be able to on a breed basis. veto a sale of property if it were not satisfied that the All horses slaughtered for human consumption must purchaser could continue to provide the designated be accompanied by either a passport, or, for horses over services. 12 months of age and covered by the derogation applying to Dartmoor, Exmoor and the New Forest, a passport NHS: Managers application form and a correctly completed rump sticker. (Foals moving from those derogated areas require only Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for a rump sticker.) Health how many managerial staff were employed in the NHS in England at the end of each financial year Mental Health Services since 1997-98. [41136]

Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: The Annual Workforce Census Health what his most recent estimate is of the number collects the numbers of staff at 30 September each year. of people with a personality disorder; and how many of The numbers of managers and senior managers working those were in receipt of forensic mental health services in the national health service since 1998 are shown in at the latest date for which figures are available. [41525] the following table. 899W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 900W

The figures collected on 30 September 2010 will be Michael Connarty: To ask the Secretary of State for published by the NHS Information Centre on 22 March Health whether he plans to require foundation trust 2011. hospitals to share (a) operating theatres and (b) brain NHS hospital and community health service: NHS infrastructure scanners with private health providers under his support, 1998 to 2009, as at 30 September each year, England legislative proposals for NHS reform. [41115] Full-time equivalent Manager Senior manager Mr Simon Burns: The Health and Social Care Bill would empower Monitor to impose special licence 1998 14,112 7,741 conditions on a provider of national health service 1999 14,786 8,592 services ’licence holder’ requiring that licence holder to 2000 15,664 8,589 provide another licence holder with access to particular 2001 16,911 9,374 services under terms that Monitor may specify. Decisions 2002 19,494 11,420 on the exercise of these powers would be a matter for 2003 22,195 11,614 Monitor. 2004 24,642 11,365 2005 26,568 10,981 Prostate Gland: Medical Treatments 2006 24,782 10,258 2007 24,873 10,082 Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008 26,854 11,083 Health whether the best practice tariff will maintain 2009 29,924 12,585 equity between the (a) transurethral resection of the Source: prostate and (b) holmium laser enucleation of the The NHS Information Centre. prostate treatments for prostate conditions. [41459]

Mr Simon Burns: The characteristic of best practice NHS: Pensions that the best practice tariff is intended to incentivise is a higher day case rate. The best practice tariff does not Craig Whittaker: To ask the Secretary of State for discriminate between Transurethral Resection of the Health for what reasons closed direction pensions Prostate and Holmium Laser Enucleation of the Prostate transfers were introduced for social enterprises and not treatments for prostate conditions, other than whether for other providers of public services. [41025] these procedures are undertaken as day cases. The 2011-12 best practice tariffs for treatment of the Mr Simon Burns: Closed directions were introduced enlarged prostate have been developed with the support for staff transferring to ″Right to Request″ social enterprises of clinicians, including the President of the British as a result of the Command Paper, ‘High Quality Care Association of Urological Surgeons. for All: NHS Next Stage Review Final Report’. Closed The draft 2011-12 tariffs were shared for ‘sense check’ directions have been available for many years to not for in October 2010, and changes were subsequently made profit providers of national health service funded services, to the levels of the proposed tariff for resection of principally to allow staff transferred from the NHS to prostate by laser to reflect concerns that a day case rate remain in the pension scheme. Social enterprises therefore target of 90% was overly ambitious for delivery in one already qualified under the existing policy. year. A revised target of 30% was therefore agreed, and the draft 2011-12 tariff prices were increased accordingly. The 2011-12 tariff prices were published for ‘road NHS: Private Sector test’ on 22 December, since when it has been brought to the Department’s attention that the published best practice tariff price for resection of prostate by laser contained a Michael Connarty: To ask the Secretary of State for typographical error. The October 2010 ‘sense check’ Health what assessment he has made of the likely prices for this procedure had been inadvertently included, treatment under EU state aid rules of a foundation rather than the revised prices that were agreed for ‘road trust hospital which receives over 50% of its income test’. from private funding under his legislation proposals for The agreed prices for resection of prostate by laser NHS reform. [41114] will appear in the final tariff package for 2011-12 when it is published shortly. Mr Simon Burns: On our proposals for national health service reform, we are assessing where European Transition Programme Union law will have an impact and what the position will be with respect to a health system that will remain John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Health funded by the taxpayer and providing universal coverage, pursuant to the answer of 18 January 2011, Official free at the point of need. Report, column 736W, on transition programme, for The Health and Social Care Bill ensures that the what reason the information on the (a) membership principal legal purpose of a foundation trust would and (b) frequency of meetings of the Commissioning remain to provide goods and services for the NHS in Development Board was not placed in the Library; and England. Foundation trusts would also be required to if he will place that information in the Library. [41505] keep separate accounts for their private income and NHS income through directions on their accounts made Mr Simon Burns: I regret that the information was by the Secretary of State for Health with the approval not placed in the Library due to an administrative error. of HM Treasury to ensure this is transparent. The information was placed in the Library on 15 February. 901W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 902W

John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Health, (b) KPMG and (c) Tribal Group, including pursuant to the answer of 18 January 2011, Official for each such meeting (i) the names of those attending, Report, column 736W, on transition programme, what (ii) the date on which each meeting took place, (iii) the the (a) names of, (b) leaders of and (c) participants in location of each meeting or event, (iv) the purpose of each primary workstream outlined in the Provider each meeting, (v) topics discussed, (vi) the titles of any Development Delivery Strategy were. [41506] presentations or other documents produced for or at each meeting and (vii) the authors and main presenters Mr Simon Burns: Ian Dalton CBE is the managing of such presentations or other documents. [41585] director for the provider development programme. Within this programme of work, there are two directors and Mr Simon Burns: The Department does not routinely the following primary workstreams: collect this information and therefore the information Bob Ricketts CBE, Director of Provider Policy: development requested could be collected only at disproportionate of a new system of economic regulation; and support and enable cost. the new provider landscape; Matthew Kershaw, Director of Provider Delivery: delivery of the provider landscape. JUSTICE In addition there are two cross-cutting workstreams that are the responsibility of Bob Ricketts and Matthew Corruption: Business Kershaw. These are: develop leadership capacity to support the new provider landscape; Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice and what plans he has to bring forward legislative proposals engagement and communication. on corruption in international business. [41331] The Provider Development Board (PDB) provides the formal governance for the delivery of the provider Mr Djanogly: I refer the right hon. Member to the development programme, providing scrutiny of issues answer given by the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of on behalf of the NHS management board (and taking State for Justice, my right hon. and learned Friend the provider development specific decisions within their Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) on 14 February remit). The PDB will agree the formal programme of 2011, Official Report, column 581W. work up to April 2012 for consideration by the NHS management board. The membership and the terms of Corston Review reference of the PDB have already been placed in the Library. Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) what assessment he has made of the John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Health continuing operational viability in 2011-12 of each of pursuant to the answer of 18 January 2011, Official the projects arising from the recommendations of the Report, column 736W, on transition programme (1) if Corston Review; [41543] he will make it his policy to place in the Library copies (2) what funding his Department has provided for of (a) agendas, (b) minutes and (c) board papers for projects arising from the recommendations of the future meetings of each of the constituent bodies of Corston Review in 2010-11. [41574] the transition programme within one week of such meetings taking place; [41537] Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice established a (2) if he will place in the Library copies of the (a) programme of work to divert from custody vulnerable agendas, (b) minutes and (c) board papers for women, who do not pose a risk to the public. Over meetings of each of the constituent bodies of the £10 million has been provided by the Ministry of Justice transition programme. [41538] in the period up to March 2011 to fund women’s community based services. Plans for sustainable funding in 2011-12 Mr Simon Burns: The Department has made a are progressing. The National Offender Management commitment to publish summary minutes on the Service (NOMS) has considered each of the projects on Department’s website relating to meetings of each of the basis of: the bodies outlined in the answer of 18 January 2011, Performance in 2010-11; Official Report, column 736W,on transition programme Demand for their services; (Departmental Board, DH Executive Board, Transition Capability to deliver future objectives; Programme Board, Commissioning Development Board Sustainability without NOMS funding. and the Provider Development Board). NOMS has also made a commitment from 2012-13 We have no plans to routinely publish in the Library onwards to commission services that demonstrate their copies of the agendas, full minutes, and board papers effectiveness in diverting women from custody. A full for future meetings. announcement will be made shortly.

John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Death Certificates: Fees and Charges pursuant to the answer of 18 January 2011, Official Report, column 736W, on transition programme, if he Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for will publish a list of all meetings or events which have Justice what estimate he has made of the likely average taken place since 1 May 2010 between individuals named fee to be charged for death certificates under the as members of the constituent bodies of the transition proposed new death certification process. [41147] programme or officials working on their behalf and any employees, representatives or intermediaries of (a) United Anne Milton: I have been asked to reply. 903W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 904W

The Government’s preferred option for funding the 1997 of breaching a restraining order and given (a) a improved process of death certification, when introduced, term of imprisonment, (b) a fine and (c) a term of is a single fee for certification of all deaths—irrespective imprisonment and a fine in each year since 1998; of whether death is followed by burial, cremation or [40422] other form of disposal. The level of fee, which will be (2) how many persons in England and Wales were set on the basis of full cost recovery, has yet to be made the subject of a restraining order under section 5 determined. However, the fee is likely to be lower than of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 in each current cremation certification fees, which it will replace. year since 1998. [40423] As cremation accounts for 73% of all disposals, the Government expect that most bereaved families will pay Mr Blunt: The number of persons found guilty at all less under the new arrangements. courts, sentenced to a fine, immediate custody, immediate custody and issued with a fine, or given a restraining Harassment: Restraining Order order under section 5 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, in England and Wales, 1998 to 2009 (latest Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for available) can be viewed in tables 1 and 2. Justice (1) how many persons were found guilty under Data for 2010 are planned for publication in the Section 5(5) of the Protection from Harassment Act spring of 2011.

Table 1: The number of persons found guilty at all courts and the number of persons issued with a fine, given a custodial sentence or given a custodial sentence and issued with a fine, under section 5 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, in England and Wales, 1998 to 20091,2,3

Offence description 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 20084 2009

Breach of a restraining order

Found guilty 274 461 557 539 604 687 766 880 873 738 821 1,463

Sentenced5 273 471 561 534 597 689 760 876 861 784 748 1,328 of which:

Fine 53 89 86 93 101 119 112 114 87 55 77 141

Immediate 123 206 226 193 206 226 282 289 308 269 260 456 custody

Immediate 8— 8— 8— 8— 8— 8— 8— 8— 8— 8— 8— 8— custody and a fine6

Other 97 176 249 248 290 344 366 473 466 460 411 731 sentences7

1The following statutes were used for the corresponding offence: Breach of a Restraining Order Protection from Harassment Act 1997, s.5 2 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed fortwoor more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extractedfrom large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 4 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July and August 2008. 5 The sentenced column may exceed those found guilty as it may be the case that a defendant found guilty, and committed for sentence at the Crown court, may be sentenced in the following year. 6 Where immediate custody was the principal disposal and the fine was a secondary disposal. Includes: absolute/conditional discharge, community sentence, suspended sentence and otherwise dealt with. 8 =Nil Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services, Ministry of Justice

Table 2: The number of persons given a restraining order at all courts under section 5 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997, in England and Wales, 1998 to 20091,2,3 Offence description— Breach of a restraining order 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 20084 2009

Restraining order 11 18 22 22 33 58 46 73 81 76 33 102 1 The following statute and corresponding offence description were used: Offence code 831: Breach of a Restraining Order Protection from Harassment Act 1997, s.5 2 The figures given in the table relate to persons for whom this sentence was the principal disposal, but also where it was given a secondary or other disposal. 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 4 Excludes data for Cardiff magistrates court for April, July and August 2008. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services, Ministry of Justice 905W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 906W

Lancaster Prison Legal Aid: Landlord and Tenant

Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice which body will have responsibility for the how many people received legal aid in respect of a maintenance of HM Prison Lancaster following its tenant’s right to live in quiet enjoyment in the latest closure. [41112] 12 months for which figures are available. [41385]

Mr Blunt: It was announced on 13 January 2011 that Mr Djanogly: The LSC does not record the number the prison at Lancaster Castle will close. The Ministry of people who receive legal aid. Instead it records the of Justice (MoJ) leases the castle from the Duchy of number of ‘acts of assistance’ for which funding was Lancaster. The lease with the Duchy of Lancaster provides granted. One individual may receive a number of separate for a three-year period of notice. Responsibility for acts of assistance, and one act of assistance can help maintenance during any period of notice remains with more than one person. During the financial year 2009-10, the MoJ. there were 2,393 claims made under legal help and 390 civil representation cases closed relating to housing Legal Aid Scheme harassment, which includes wrongful or unlawful eviction.

Legal Aid: Repossession Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what estimate his Department has made of the effects of the implementation of his proposed changes to the Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice legal aid scheme on the number of litigants in person how many repossession cases were (a) successfully and involved in court proceedings; and what assessment he (b) unsuccessfully contested by the defendant in the has made of the effects of any change in the number of most recent 12 month for which figures are available; such litigants on the costs of HM Courts Service. and how many and what proportion of these [41380] defendants had legal representation. [41454]

Mr Djanogly: We are currently reviewing the existing Mr Djanogly: During 2010 there were 210,392 landlord data and research into the impact of litigants in person and mortgage repossession claims issued in the county on the courts. This will contribute to the analysis in the courts of England and Wales. However, the Ministry of final impact assessments due to be published alongside Justice does not hold figures centrally on how many of the legal aid consultation response in spring 2011. There these were contested by the defendant. will also be a post-implementation review of any reforms. While the administrative computer systems used in the county courts contain the incidence of claims issued Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice and orders made in repossession cases, they do not what proportion of legal aid recipients were (a) specifically hold information about whether the cases women, (b) black, (c) Asian and (d) minority ethnic were contested by the defendant. It may be possible to in the last 12 months for which figures are available. obtain this information through the examination of [41489] individual case files but this would incur disproportionate cost. Mr Djanogly: Available information on the gender and ethnicity of legal aid recipients is set out in the Legal Aid: Social Security Benefits following tables. Civil legal aid Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Percentage how many welfare claimants received legal aid in Civil All civil legal respect of a benefit claim in the most recent 12 month Legal help representation aid period for which figures are available. [41456] Female 54 58 55 Mr Djanogly: The LSC does not record the number Black 12 5 11 of people who receive legal aid. Instead it records the Asian 7 4 7 number of ‘acts of assistance’ for which funding was granted. One individual may receive a number of separate BAME 29 14 27 acts of assistance, and one act of assistance can help Criminal legal aid more than one person. Percentage During the financial year 2009-10, there were 110,164 Female 13 claims made under legal help and 27 civil representation Unknown/prefer not to say 13 cases closed under the welfare benefits category of law.

Black 5 National Offender Management Service: Qualifications Asian 4 Minority Ethnicity 9 Gordon Henderson: To ask the Secretary of State for Unknown/prefer not to say 21 Justice how many senior managers employed in the head office at the National Offender Management Police station figures are not included in the above as Service have (a) experience of and (b) a qualification a grant of legal aid is not required. in probation work. [41071] 907W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 908W

Mr Blunt: Information about the qualifications and Outcome—no representative experience of individual members of staff is not held October 2009 to September 2010 centrally. To obtain the information requested would Number Percentage involve identifying and contacting sources of information Decision of 1st tier Agency 109,900 72 in many different locations and would thus incur upheld disproportionate cost.

Prisoners: Foreign Nationals CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what information his Department holds on the BSkyB: News Corporation effectiveness of the rehabilitation of foreign national prisoners convicted in courts in England and Wales who served custodial sentences in (a) England and Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport pursuant to the Wales and (b) their country of origin. [41631] answer of 20 January 2011, Official Report, Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice does not collate column 879W, on News Corporation, if he will ensure specific information on the effectiveness of the rehabilitation that the information he plans to publish on the process of foreign national prisoners. Research studies to date surrounding the proposed News Corporation takeover (a) (b) have not separately assessed effectiveness for this group of BSkyB includes all telephone calls, letters, (c) (d) of prisoners, and due to the comparatively small numbers meetings and other communications between involved, the production of meaningful data would also Ministers and officials of his Department and News be problematic. Corporation and BSkyB. [41589]

Social Security Benefits: Tribunals Mr Jeremy Hunt: I refer the hon. Member to the written statement I made to the House on 25 January 2011, Official Report, column 3WS, setting out what I Nia Griffith: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice have published so far. So far as possible, I will release all how many and what proportion of welfare benefit relevant further information relating to this merger tribunal cases were (a) won and (b) lost by the which has not already been published on or shortly claimant in the most recent 12 month period for which after the time the final decision is taken. figures are available; and in how many cases in each category did the claimant have legal representation. In addition information about Ministers’ meetings [41455] with external organisations is published on the DCMS website on a quarterly basis. Mr Djanogly: The following tables provide information Digital Economy Act 2010 on the number and proportion of social security and child support cases heard and their outcomes between October 2009 and September 2010 and for the same Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, period the number of cases where the appellant had Olympics, Media and Sport what assessment he has legal representation. This is the most recent 12 month made of the effects on the digital economy of period for which statistics have been published. implementation of sections 3 to 16 of the Digital Economy Act 2010; and if he will make a statement. [41332] All outcomes October 2009 to September 2010 Mr Vaizey: The initial obligations under the Digital Number Percentage Economy Act (DEA) are aimed at reducing the volume Cleared at hearing 238,700 — of online copyright infringement on networks. We expect Decision in favour of the 87,500 37 that the successful implementation of these measures appellant will bring about a reduction in unlawful file-sharing Decision of 1st tier Agency 149,000 62 activity and, in turn, bring about an increase in revenues upheld generated by content owners and consequent investment Outcome—with representative1 in content creation. October 2009 to September 2010 Alongside the DEA measures to reduce the unlawful Number Percentage use of content online, industry will need to develop Cleared at hearing 87,800 — strong, legitimate content offerings in order to deliver Decision in favour of the 47,300 54 all the benefits that the digital economy has to offer. appellant This will benefit consumers by giving them greater Decision of 1st tier Agency 39,200 45 choice of lawful content services, delivered in the way upheld they want and at a price that is fair and reasonable for 1 Figures with representatives show appellants who had a representative; all parties. however, this does not necessarily confirm the representative was in attendance on the day of hearing. Licensing Outcome—no representative October 2009 to September 2010 Number Percentage Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport (1) for how long Cleared at hearing 151,000 — he anticipates the contract with Arqiva for licensing Decision in favour of the 40,200 27 appellant spectrum to the programme making and special events sector to run; and if he will make a statement; [41173] 909W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 910W

(2) when interested parties will be informed of the Newspaper Press arrangements for the next tender process to provide spectrum licensing to the programme making and Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for special events sector; and if he will make a statement; Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many local [41174] newspapers have closed in each region in each of the (3) when he expects the terms of the contract with last 20 years. [41246] Arqiva to provide spectrum licensing to the programme making and special events sector to be confirmed; and Mr Vaizey: The Department for Culture, Media and if he will make a statement; [41175] Sport does not keep records on the number of closures, (4) when he expects the contract for licensing or start-ups, of newspapers. spectrum to the programme making and special events Tourism: Marketing sector to next be put out to tender; and if he will make a statement. [41176] Brandon Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Vaizey: Ofcom recently concluded a tender process Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport which (a) for the contract to provide licensing and spectrum companies and (b) other organisations have pledged a management services to the programme-making and contribution to the tourism marketing fund; and how special events sector. The contract has been awarded to much has been pledged to date. [39656] Arqiva Ltd, and Ofcom is in the process of finalising the contract, subject to terms and conditions. The contract John Penrose: Further to the answer I gave my hon. will run for five years from when it enters into force, Friend on 25 January 2011, Official Report, column subject to Ofcom’s rights of early termination. 149W, VisitBritain are continuing their discussions with companies concerning potential offers. This is a four-year Ofcom does not have any plans to re-tender in the programme, and VisitBritain do not expect to have near future. Should Ofcom decide to commence another contracted the full amount for year one until March. award process for the provision of spectrum licensing These are commercially sensitive negotiations and further for programme-making and special events, interested details will not be available until then. parties would be informed as appropriate.

Members: Correspondence ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy: Business Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport when he plans to reply to the letter from the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton on 9 December 2010 with regard Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for to Ms J Vickers. [41274] Energy and Climate Change if he will assess the merits of bringing forward legislative proposals to require third party energy intermediaries to sign up to a code John Penrose: I refer the right hon. Member to the of conduct for the purposes of reducing the mis-selling answer I gave him on 25 January 2011, Official Report, of energy contracts to small and medium-sized column 148W. enterprises. [41170] Where possible all correspondence sent from the Department is done so by e-mail. The answer in question Charles Hendry: The Government support Ofgem’s was e-mailed directly to the parliamentary office of the recommendation that suppliers and customers should right hon. Member on 23 December 2010, and again in always consider a third party intermediary’s practices response to the parliamentary question referred to above. prior to entering into a business arrangement. Bodies I will ensure a third copy of the Secretary of State for such as the Utilities Intermediaries Association (UIA) Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport’s response is sent operate voluntary industry codes of practice for their to the right hon. Member. If he still does not receive it, members, and promote appropriate standards of behaviour. he should send a member of his parliamentary staff to The Office of Fair Trading and Trading Standards my office and my officials will be happy to hand over a Services have a joint duty to enforce the Business Protection paper copy of the reply personally. from Misleading Marketing Regulations (BPRs), which prohibit businesses from advertising products in a way Mobile Phones: Harassment that misleads traders and set out conditions under which comparative advertising, to both consumers and business, is permitted. Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport if he will discuss with Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for mobile phone operators the introduction of a protocol Energy and Climate Change if he will bring forward to handle instances of menacing or harassing calls proposals to require energy suppliers to be responsible received from mobile phones in circumstances where for the sales methods used by third party intermediaries the caller has withheld the number. [40652] selling contracts to small and medium-sized enterprises. [41576] Mr Vaizey: All UK mobile network operators already provide extensive guidance on their websites on the Charles Hendry: Currently we have no plans to bring handling of nuisance phone calls as well as supplementary forward the proposals my hon. Friend asks about. The advice being available on the Ofcom website. Government support Ofgem’s recommendation that 911W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 912W suppliers and customers should always consider a third Energy: National Policy Statements party intermediary’s practices prior to entering into a business arrangement. Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change whether he plans to discuss with Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Energy and Climate Change if he will direct Ofgem to Rural Affairs the findings of the Report by the Energy review its procedure for complaints against third party and Climate Change Committee on the revised draft intermediaries by small and medium-sized enterprises national policy statements on energy on the Holford to retain recordings of all telephone calls made during Rules in formulating the Government’s response to that a complaint. [41583] report. [41244]

Charles Hendry: Brokering contracts between energy Charles Hendry: My officials will consult with DEFRA suppliers and customers is not a licensable activity and officials and those of other Government Departments therefore is not directly regulated by Ofgem. Complaints before the Government’s response to the Energy and from business customers about the marketing activities Climate Change Committee report on the energy National used by third party intermediaries can be investigated Policy Statements is published. by the Office of Fair Trading and local authority Trading Standards Service, who have the powers in this area. I International Climate Fund have asked Ofgem, in the context of carrying out its Retail Market Review, to consider if any additional Karen Lumley: To ask the Secretary of State for measures would be appropriate in respect of the relationship Energy and Climate Change what contribution his suppliers have with third party intermediaries. Department plans to make to the international climate finance fund over the period of the comprehensive Energy: EU Action spending review; and if he will make a statement. [41683] Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Gregory Barker: The spending review provides a total Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of of £2.9 billion of international climate finance—called 3 February 2011, Official Report, columns 910-11W, on the international climate fund (ICF)—over the spending energy, if he will work with his European counterparts review period. The fund will be managed collectively by to ensure that the indicative EU-wide target to reduce the relevant Departments. From DECC’s budget, we primary energy use by 20 per cent. by 2020 through will contribute £l billion of the total. improvements in energy efficiency is made legally binding as part of the European Commission’s review of the EU Energy Efficiency Action Plan. [41590] Solar Power: Feed-in Tariffs

Gregory Barker: In common with other member states, Angela Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for the Government do not believe that making the EU Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made target legally binding is appropriate or necessary to of the proportion of solar photovoltaic projects deliver improvements in energy efficiency. We believe supported through the feed-in tariff scheme that were that the Commission should instead focus their forthcoming defined as large-scale since the scheme’s inception. review of the EU Energy Efficiency Action Plan on [41242] facilitating practical action to deliver real energy savings. Gregory Barker: Data provided by Ofgem shows a total of three large-scale (over 50kW) solar photovoltaic Energy: Housing (PV) schemes accredited for Feed-In Tariffs (FITs) since the scheme started in April 2010. All of these schemes Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for have a total installed capacity of between 50kW and Energy and Climate Change in what proportion of l00kW,however there is a considerably larger number of privately-rented properties in the constituency of such schemes currently in the planning system or awaiting Brighton, Pavilion his Department expects energy accreditation. efficiency measures to be installed through the Green Deal. [41592] Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has Gregory Barker: We expect the Green Deal to be made of the likely effect of the inclusion of solar taken up widely across all building sectors and tenures, photovoltaic projects in his review of feed-in tariffs on including privately rented properties in the constituency (a) the solar photovoltaic industry and (b) levels of of Brighton, Pavilion. It will offer private landlords a employment in that industry. [41542] real opportunity to invest in the energy efficiency of their properties at no up-front cost to themselves. Gregory Barker: The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member We are also creating powers in the Energy Bill, which for Twickenham (Vince Cable) announced the Feed-in will require landlords to make reasonable energy efficiency tariffs (FITs) review including fast-track consideration improvements. for large-scale solar photovoltaic (PV) on 7 February We intend to use these powers from 2015 if we do not 2010. Detailed proposals on the fast track review are see voluntary improvement in energy efficiency under being worked up and will be published for consultation the Green Deal. next month. We will use the review to gather evidence 913W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 914W on the likely impact of our proposals. We want to Month Number of contacts1 deliver an outcome that provides a sustainable future for industry. June 460 Warm Front Scheme: Enfield July 450 August 430 Nick de Bois: To ask the Secretary of State for September 450 Energy and Climate Change how many people in October 360 Enfield North constituency have participated in the November 430 Warm Front scheme in each of the last five years. December 490 [41609]

Gregory Barker: The following table shows the number 2010 of households assisted under the Warm Front scheme in the constituency of Enfield North in each of the last January 560 five years. February 470 Enfield North constituency March 520 Scheme year Number of assisted households April 220 May 540 2005-06 196 2006-07 270 June 740 2007-08 462 July 910 2008-09 399 August 990 2009-10 331 September 800 2010-111 140 October 790 1 Up to 31 December 2010 November 160 Warm Home Discount Scheme December 370

1 Rehman Chishti: To ask the Secretary of State for Rounded to the nearest 10 Energy and Climate Change how many submissions were made to his Department’s Warm Home Discount ISAF forces operating in Task Force Helmand’s area consultation; how many such submissions called for of operations come from a number of different nations, terminally ill people to be included in the core group to which often operate closely alongside each other and receive the Warm Home Discount automatically; and alongside Afghan Army and police units. Without when his Department plans to publish its response to undertaking a detailed assessment of each engagement, the consultation. [41957] it is not possible to define precisely in every case whether a contact involved UK forces, our ISAF partners, or Gregory Barker: DECC received 1,847 responses to Afghan units. Data are therefore collected on the number the consultation on Warm Home Discount. 1,800 of of incidents involving ISAF forces in Task Force Helmand’s these were emails calling for terminally ill people to be area of operations without attempting to identify the included in the core group. A response will be published nationality of the forces involved in the contact. in due course. These data are based on information derived from a number of sources and can only be an estimate, not least because of the difficulties in ensuring a consistent DEFENCE interpretation of the basis for collating statistics in a complex fast-moving multinational operational Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations environment. The data are subject to change as more information becomes available. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many contacts between UK forces and the Taliban there have been in Helmand province in Patrick Mercer: To ask the Secretary of State for each month since April 2009. [35526] Defence how many ISAF-trained Afghan National Army personnel worked in partnership with UK forces Nick Harvey [holding answer 24 January 2011]: The between (a) 18 May 2009 and 4 October 2009, (b) numbers of troops in contact events involving the 5 October 2009 and 21 February 2010, (c) 22 February International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and 2010 and 11 July 2010 and (d) 12 July 2010 and insurgents in the Task Force Helmand area of operations 28 November 2010. [40822] in Helmand Province for each complete month from April 2009 for which verified data are available are shown in the following table: Nick Harvey: The information is not held in the Month Number of contacts1 format requested. However, the number of ISAF-trained Afghan National Army (ANA) personnel “present for 2009 duty”, or available to conduct tasks in the Task Force April 160 Helmand (TFH) area of operations, is shown in the May 230 following table: 915W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 916W

Total number of ANA in Task Force Helmand area of Period operations Reductions in Task Force Helmand area of operations

18 May 2009 to 4 October 2009 2,351 — 5 October 2009 to 21 February 2010 2,312 — 22 February 2010 to 11 July 2010 2,260 March 2010: Musa Qaleh transferred to US area of operations. June 2010: Kajaki transferred to US area of operations. 12 July 2010 to 28 November 2010 2,102 October 2010: Sangin transferred to US area of operations

During the periods of time requested, the TFH area Armed Forces: Pensions of operations was decreasing in size. Consequently, while the number of ANA personnel in the table appears Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for to be decreasing overall, in fact there has been an Defence what the pension entitlement will be of a improvement in the number of ANA in the TFH area member of the Armed Forces Pension Scheme who of operations and in Helmand as a whole. retires after 30 years’ full-time service on a salary of These figures are based on monthly averages and we (a) £10,000, (b) £15,000, (c) £20,000, (d) £25,000, are unable to ascertain daily figures. These data are (e) £30,000, (f) £40,000 and (e) £50,000 if the pension based on information derived from a number of sources is uprated in line with (i) the retail prices index and (ii) and can only be an estimate, not least because of the the consumer prices index. [40366] difficulties in ensuring a consistent interpretation of the basis for collating statistics in a complex fast-moving Mr Robathan: I refer the hon. Member to the answer multinational operational environment. The data are the Minister for International Security Strategy, my subject to change as more information becomes available. hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Mr Howarth), gave on 17 January 2011, Official Report, columns Patrick Mercer: To ask the Secretary of State for 587-589W,to the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire Defence if he will consider the merits of making regular (Gemma Doyle) and hon. Member for North Durham reports to Parliament on the deployed number of (a) (Mr Jones). ISAF-trained Afghan National Army personnel, (b) ISAF-trained Afghan National Army personnel working Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for in partnership with UK forces and (c) ISAF-in-training Defence what estimate he has made of the likely Afghan National Army personnel. [40823] savings to the Armed Forces Pension Scheme of the proposed indexation according to the consumer prices Nick Harvey: The development of the Afghan National index (a) in 2010-11 and (b) in the next (i) 10, (ii) 20, Security Forces (ANSF) is a key element in delivering (iii) 25 and (iv) 30 years. [40383] our national security objectives in Afghanistan. For this reason we ensure that the regular written reports we Mr Robathan: The change in indexation from retail provide to the House on Afghanistan include updates prices index (RPI) to consumer prices index (CPI) will on the growth and development of the ANSF, including not come into effect until April 2011. No assessment of in the UK area of operations. the kind requested can be made as future movements of the RPI and CPI rates are not known. My right hon. Friend, the Secretary of State for Defence, gave the latest of our quarterly oral updates to the House on 14 February 2010, Official Report, columns Christmas Island: Radioactive Waste 732-46), as the latest Quarterly Report as part of the Government’s commitment to keep Parliament informed Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for on progress made in Afghanistan. Defence what the location is of the (a) toxic and (b) radiologically-contaminated waste recovered as a result Patrick Mercer: To ask the Secretary of State for of the remediation programme conducted on Defence how many fatalities there were in Afghanistan Christmas Island following the nuclear tests conducted among ISAF-trained Afghan National Army personnel in the 1950s; what site licences cover the disposals; and (1) working in Afghanistan in partnership with (a) UK what the cost to the public purse was of the clean-up forces, (b) US forces and (c) Canadian forces between and remediation programme. [40668] (i) 18 May 2009 and 4 October 2009, (ii) 5 October 2009 and 21 February 2010, (iii) 22 February 2010 and Mr Robathan: The majority of waste recovered was 11 July 2010 and (iv) 12 July 2010 and 28 November inert and largely comprised of metal. 2010; [40824] Toxic or otherwise hazardous waste, including radioactive (2) between (a) 18 May 2009 and 4 October 2009, materials were transported back to the UK for disposal. (b) 5 October 2009 and 21 February 2010, (c) Lead, asbestos and ‘exempt’ radioactive radium wastes 22 February 2010 and 11 July 2010 and (d) 12 July were consigned to landfill in Middlesbrough, at a facility 2010 and 28 November 2010. [40825] suitably licensed to receive this material. Some 18.7 tonnes of uncontaminated lead was recycled at South Darley. Nick Harvey: This is a matter for the Government of Low level radioactive radium waste was sent via Winfrith, Afghanistan. We do not hold information on the number an organisation licensed to handle such material, to the of Afghan National Security Forces fatalities. UK low level waste repository in Drigg, Cumbria, 917W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 918W which is licensed to accept such waste. The radioactive information requested. A copy of the Permanent Secretary’s waste largely consisted of luminised dials from abandoned letter to the Committee will be placed in the Library of vehicles. the House. The cost of the clean-up and remediation programme Defence: Sales was £9.1 million. The cost has risen from that previously Andrew Rosindell: [33749]To ask the Secretary of State given in answers to parliamentary questions due to the for Defence what serviceable (a) aircraft, (b) vessels resolution of outstanding contractual issues. and (c) weapons systems his Department has sold since 1997; and how much it received from each such Defence: Procurement sale. [33749] Mr Gerald Howarth: I will write to the hon. Member Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for shortly. Defence (1) what the (a) names, (b) job titles and (c) Substantive answer from Gerald Howarth to Andrew dates of office were of the senior responsible owners Rosindell: for the Typhoon project; [36375] Further to the holding response I provided to your question about serviceable aircraft, vessels and weapons systems that have (2) pursuant to the answer of 23 November 2010, been sold since 1997 (Official Report dated 19 January 2011; Official Report, columns 221-2W,on defence: procurement, column 826W), I am writing to provide a substantive response. who the senior responsible officers (SROs) were for the Serviceable equipment is characterised as that which has been (a) Nimrod MRA4, (b) future integrated soldier sold to other governments for continued use as defence assets technology, (c) Queen Elizabeth class carrier and (d) rather than those sold to commercial enterprises, either for use in future rapid effect system project; and between what another capacity or for recycling. Sales to other governments dates each served as SRO. [36579] have the potential to strengthen international relationships; generate income that can be re-invested in defence; allows other governments to contribute to international security; and can also provide UK Peter Luff [holding answer 27 January 2011]: Further industry with opportunities to undertake some of the equipment to the answer given by the Minister for Defence Personnel, regeneration work to meet the customer’s requirements. Welfare and Veterans, my right hon. Friend the Member Details of aircraft, vessels (surface warships and submarines) for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan) on 4 February and stand alone weapons systems that have been sold to other 2011, Official Report, column 990W, the Permanent governments since 1997 are enclosed at Annex A. Secretary of the Ministry of Defence has written to the I hope this is helpful. Chair of the Public Accounts Committee providing the Annex A—Dated January 2011

Sales of defence equipment to other governments since 1997 Equipment Purchaser Revenue (£ million)

Aircraft 1997 6 x Wessex helicopters Uruguay Information no longer held 1999 2 x Hercules Sri Lanka 64.0 (combined) 2003 3 x Hercules Austria 34.0 (combined) 2005 1 x Hercules Netherlands Information no longer held

Vessels (surface warships and submarines) 1997 HMS Plover (Patrol vessel) Philippines 7.5 (combined) HMS Peacock (Patrol Vessel) HMS Starling (Patrol Vessel) 1998 HMS Upholder (Submarine) Canada 227.4 (combined) HMS Unicorn (Submarine) HMS Ursula (Submarine) HMS Unseen (Submarine) 2000 HMS Bicester (Mine Countermeasure) Greece 10.0 (combined) HMS Berkely (Mine Countermeasure) HMS Orkney (Patrol Vessel) Trinidad and Tobago 1.5 2001 HMS Orwell (Patrol Vessel) Guyana 1.5 2002 HMS London (Type 22 Frigate) Romania 116.0 (combined) HMS Coventry (Type 22 Frigate) 2003 HMS Shetland (Patrol Vessel) Bangladesh 8.0 (combined) HMS Alderney (Patrol Vessel) HMS Anglesey (Patrol Vessel) HMS Lindisfarne (Patrol Vessel) HMS Guernsey (Patrol Vessel) 2003 HMS Sheffield (Type 22 Frigate) Chile 27.0 2005 HMS Marlborough (Type 23 Frigate) Chile 134.0 (combined) HMS Norfolk (Type 23 Frigate) HMS Grafton (Type 23 Frigate) 919W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 920W

Sales of defence equipment to other governments since 1997 Equipment Purchaser Revenue (£ million)

2007 HMS Sandown (Minehunter) Estonia 32.0 (combined) HMS Bridport (Minehunter) HMS Inverness (Minehunter) RFA Sir Galahad (Landing Ship Logistics) Brazil 5.2 2008 RFA Sir Bedivere ((Landing Ship Logistics) Brazil 10.0 HMS Cottesmore (Mine Countermeasure) Lithuania ¤155.0 (this sale was concluded in euros rather than sterling) HMS Dulverton (Mine Countermeasure) 2010 HMS Dumbarton Castle (Patrol Vessel) Bangladesh 2.4 (combined) HMS Leeds Castle (Patrol Vessel)

Weapons systems 2001 20 x Rapier Cascade Missile System Australia 0.68 Notes: 1. Sales agreements are negotiated on an individual basis and they are never “like-for-like”. For example, some sales may include onboard systems, training and spare equipment support while others will exclude these elements. Comparisons between the sales of similar equipment should not, therefore, be made. 2. The costs provided represent the total combined revenue for the MOD and its industrial partners who, for example, carry out the work to regenerate the equipment.

Depleted Uranium potential cost savings in the procurement of loitering munitions equipment. [41048] Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many depleted uranium shells were fired Peter Luff: The United Kingdom’s loitering munition into the Irish sea from ranges operated by his capability is currently being procured as part of the Department in each year since 2007. [40995] Department’s wider portfolio approach towards acquiring complex weapons. This approach was launched in Nick Harvey: 20 depleted uranium shells were test-fired April 2010 and will secure significant efficiencies of from the Ministry of Defence-owned Kirkcudbright some £1.2 billion across the breadth of the complex Range (in Scotland) into the Solway Firth, which feeds weapons portfolio over the next 10 years and is designed into the Irish sea, on 11 and 12 March 2008. No other to meet the United Kingdom’s military requirement depleted uranium test firings have taken place since. and safeguard our operational sovereignty. Munitions Nimrod Aircraft

Mr Carswell: To ask the Secretary of State for Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence (1) how much his Department expects to Defence what airborne (a) electronic intelligence and spend on loitering munitions in 2010-11; [41046] (b) intelligence, surveillance, target co-operation and (2) whether he is reviewing his Department’s reconnaissance capability will remain to HM Armed contracts for loitering munitions; [41047] Forces after the withdrawal of the Nimrod R1; when (3) what discussions his Department is having with the Nimrod R1 will be withdrawn; and if he will make defence contractors responsible for loitering munitions; a statement. [39760] [41049] (4) if he will make it his policy to announce any Peter Luff: After the withdrawal of the Nimrod R1 changes to contracts for procurement of loitering on 31 March 2011 the following airborne intelligence, munitions between his Department and defence surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance capabilities will remain available to assist our armed contractors. [41050] forces: Sentry, Sentinel, Tornado GR 4 when fitted with Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence expects to spend a RAPTOR or Litening III pod, Typhoon when fitted some £50 million on loitering munitions during the with a Litening III pod, Sea King Mk7, Reaper Remotely financial year 2010-11. Piloted Air System and Hermes 450 UAS. As part of normal business, we conduct regular and Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for ongoing engagements with prime contractors, including Defence how many specialist RAF personnel formally MBDA for the supply of loitering munitions. employed on the MRA4 project will be (a) retained There are currently no plans to review contracts for and (b) made redundant. [39761] loitering munitions. However, as part of our wider contract renegotiating strategy, all major equipment Peter Luff: At the time of the Strategic Defence and procurements will be reviewed for possible savings measures. Security Review (SDSR) announcement there were The Department’s approach to announcing any approximately 242 RAF personnel directly involved in contractual changes relating to loitering munitions will the MRA4 project. The number of Nimrod-related continue to be subject to the usual processes and conditions personnel to be made redundant under the Regular governing the procurement of war-like stores. Armed Forces Redundancy Programme will not be known until the process has concluded. In line with Mr Carswell: To ask the Secretary of State for normal practice, where a role comes to an end, the RAF Defence what estimates his Department has made on will seek to reassign Nimrod-related personnel elsewhere 921W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 922W within the service. However, in order to sustain the The value of these long-lead items will be dependent long-term balance and structure of the RAF, while on the work programme to be approved at initial gate. implementing personnel reductions planned as part of Moreover, we do not routinely publish figures for anticipated SDSR, some personnel may be made redundant. We project expenditure as to do so would prejudice commercial will seek to achieve this through voluntary applications, interests. but it may be necessary to make some reductions through compulsory redundancies. Nuclear Weapons Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence for what reason the physical destruction of the Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for MRA4 airframes was initiated; and by whom the Defence what the status is of those contracts for decision was taken to release images of this process to long-lead items for the Trident replacement programme the media. [39762] that were suspended in May 2010 pending the result of the value for money review. [40530]

Peter Luff: Having taken the decision not to bring the Nick Harvey: The Ministry of Defence had no such Nimrod MR4A into service, I considered a range of contracts in place. An order worth approximately $3 options and concluded that the most cost-effective one million, placed on behalf of the United Kingdom between was for the nine aircraft to be disposed of following the United States Government and a United States recovery of equipment and systems that can be used supplier for materials related to propulsion, was deferred. elsewhere. Following the Value for Money review, which re-iterated Photographs of the dismantling process were not our commitment to a replacement nuclear deterrent released by the Ministry of Defence to the media. programme, the order was placed in November 2010.

Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what steps he is taking to preserve the (a) Defence by what date it will be necessary to make airborne and (b) ground-based components of the long-lead purchases prior to the Trident replacement EL/8300 Electronic Support Measures system, together main gate decision. [40550] with other equipment formerly intended for the MRA4; what assessment he has made of the possibility Nick Harvey: Contracts will be placed at the appropriate of using such equipment in conjunction with times throughout the assessment phase for those long-lead alternative platforms; and if he will make a statement. items that are included in initial gate to ensure we meet [39763] the in-service date of the Trident replacement.

Peter Luff: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for gave on 21 January 2011, Official Report, column 1024W, Defence what plans he has for Parliamentary scrutiny to the hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson). of the Trident replacement programme prior to the main gate decision. [40551] Dr Julian Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for Nick Harvey: The Main Gate decision for the programme Defence how many of the cancelled MRA4 aircraft to replace the Vanguard class is expected to take place had been flown; and how many flights in total had been during the next Parliament. Therefore it will be for the undertaken. [39764] next Government to decide on the parliamentary engagement required prior to Main Gate. Peter Luff: At the time of the decision not to bring the Nimrod MRA4 into service, only two of the nine Strategic Defence and Security Review production aircraft (PA04 and PA05) had flown. PA04 had completed 16 flights and PA05 had completed two flights. Both aircraft were piloted by BAE Systems crew Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for and the Ministry of Defence had yet to complete its Defence from whom his Department received written formal scrutiny of the aircraft design to allow the submissions to the Strategic Defence and Security aircraft to enter into RAF service. Review. [41573] Dr Fox: I refer the hon. Member to the answers I gave Nuclear Submarines on 3 November 2010, Official Report, column 856W, to the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr Jeremy Corbyn: To ask the Secretary of State for (Jonathan Edwards) and 20 December 2010, Official Defence what estimate he has made of the cost to the Report, column 993W, to the hon. Member for North public purse of items for propulsion for the first three Durham (Mr Jones). boats to be purchased ahead of the Trident replacement main gate decision. [40546] DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER Nick Harvey: The programme to replace the Vanguard class of submarines has yet to enter the assessment Prime Minister phase. During this phase a number of long-lead items relating to propulsion will be ordered so as not to put at Mr Bone: To ask the Deputy Prime Minister what risk the in-service date of the Trident replacement. responsibilities he has in the event that the Prime Final decisions on exactly what long-lead items will be Minister is incapacitated and unable to carry out his required, and when, have yet to be taken. duties. [34017] 923W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 924W

The Deputy Prime Minister: The Prime Minister remains groups and the circus industry. An industry body has Prime Minister at all times but arrangements, appropriate proposed a self-regulatory system, but no final decisions at the time, would be put in place as necessary, as has have yet been made. been the practice under successive Administrations. Arctic Resources

ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will make Animal Products: Clones it her policy to call for (a) an end to the exploitation of Arctic resources and (b) no further resource extraction to be permitted in the Arctic region until the completion Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for of research into the potential risks of such extraction; Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her and if she will work with her European counterparts to Department’s policy is on the use of the offspring of develop a co-ordinated EU policy to this effect. [41578] cloned animals in food production. [40835]

Mr Paice: The Food Standards Agency’s (FSA’s) Charles Hendry: I have been asked to reply. current interpretation of the EU Novel Foods Regulation No. We fully recognise the need to ensure protection is that approval should be sought before food from the of the Arctic region, while also noting that environmentally offspring of cloned animals can be sold for human sensitive exploitation of its oil and gas resources has the consumption. However, the European Commission potential to play an important role in the UK’s and interprets the legislation as applying only to food from wider global energy security. Decisions on resource cloned animals themselves. extraction in the region are also primarily a matter for The Board of the FSA discussed animal cloning at its the Arctic states concerned. We therefore support such open meeting on 7 December and subsequently advised extraction so long as robust environmental and safety Ministers that there were no food safety grounds for standards are applied. regulating foods from the descendants of cloned cattle and pigs and that it was minded to change its interpretation Birds of the legislation. The FSA sought the views of interested parties on changing its interpretation, with a closing Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for date of 10 February, and is currently considering responses Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment from interested parties. she has made of the (a) effects of and (b) factors For the future, the Government shares the Commission’s underlying the decline in the size of the songbird view that there should be no restrictions on the use of population. [41500] offspring of cloned animals. Richard Benyon: We have not commissioned a specific Animal Welfare study to assess the effects of songbird population declines. Ecosystems and their constituent species provide human Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for societies with ‘ecosystem services’, such as the regulation Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what her policy of pollution, provision of clean water, food, recreation is on promotion of the neutering of cats and dogs by and general well-being. Species interactions within ecosystems are complex and so declines in songbird their owners. [39463] populations may affect the services delivered. The UK’s Mr Paice: The statutory Codes of Practice on the National Ecosystem Assessment is an independent Welfare of Cats and Dogs, made under the Animal assessment of the ecosystem services we get from nature, Welfare Act 2006 and providing owners with information how they have changed over the last 50 years and how on how to meet the welfare needs of their animals, the choices we make may affect them in the future. The explain the benefits of having cats and dogs neutered assessment is due to report in spring 2011 and will and the drawbacks of not doing so. The Codes, together inform the development of the Natural Environment with the regular neutering promotion campaigns by White Paper. animal welfare organisations, provide owners with ample The reasons for the long-term declines in songbirds opportunities to learn more about and take advantage vary from species to species but in farmland habitats are of neutering their cat or dog. relatively well understood and relate largely to the intensification of agriculture, such as the loss of spring-sown Animal Welfare: Circuses crops, weedy stubbles and hedges and the increased use of pesticides and fertilizers. These changes have reduced Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State the availability of nest sites and food resources such as for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when she insects and seeds. plans to announce proposals arising from her Declines in other habitats are less well understood Department’s public consultation on the use of wild and we are funding ongoing research on woodland animals in circuses. [40268] birds. Also through our conservation advisers, the Joint Nature Conservation Committee, in partnership with Mr Paice [holding answer 15 February 2011]: We are bird conservation and research charities, we fund the currently considering the 13,000 or so responses to our majority of the monitoring that is summarised in the consultation on the use of wild animals in circuses annual publication of the State of UK Birds which before we publish a summary. In the meantime, Lord gives an overview of the recent patterns of change and Henley has been meeting with representatives of welfare the latest research to understand the underlying factors. 925W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 926W

Circuses: Animal Welfare averaged just under £4,000 per farm. The remaining £1,000 comprised compensation for bovine tuberculosis Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for and some other smaller payments. Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when she plans to publish the conclusions of the review of the use of Dangerous Dogs wild animals in circuses. [41117] Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Paice: We are currently considering the 13,000 or Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the annual so responses to our consultation on the use of wild cost to her Department was of kennelling dogs seized animals in circuses before we publish a summary. In the (a) by Merseyside Police and (b) nationally in 2010. meantime, Lord Henley has been meeting with [40341] representatives of welfare groups and the circus industry. Richard Benyon [holding answer 11 February 2011]: Common Fisheries Policy No costs are incurred by DEFRA in respect of kennelling seized dogs. These costs are borne by the relevant police authority. Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what discussions Departmental Information Officers she plans to have with the European Commissioner for Maritime Affairs and Fisheries on fish discards. [39387] Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Richard Benyon: The UK is committed to reducing Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many (a) discards which are a clear waste of natural resources. press officers, (b) internal communications officers, (c) This position is shared with Commissioner Damanaki external communications officers, (d) communications (Maritime Affairs and Fisheries) who has publicly strategy officers and (e) other positions with a committed to tackling this unsustainable practice. communications remit were employed by (i) her Department, (ii) its agencies and (iii) each other non- The UK is at the forefront of tackling discards, departmental public body sponsored by her Department taking action domestically and by working to identify on the most recent date for which figures are available. solutions at an EU level. We have undertaken a number [38954] of initiatives that have delivered excellent results. Project 50%, a collaborative project between fishermen and Richard Benyon [holding answer 9 February 2011]: Government saw discards in the South West sole fishery Communication structures in DEFRA, its executive reduced by over 50%. We are also pioneering an alternative agencies and non-departmental public bodies are currently “catch quota” management system which is based on being reviewed and the sizes of teams are changing. For managing and monitoring what is caught not just what example, by 1 April 2011 the Environment Agency will is landed. Cod discards by those vessels in the trial have have reduced communication directorate staff numbers been reduced significantly as participants have been by approximately 30%. incentivised to fish much more selectively. The information set out in the following table was The common fisheries policy contributes significantly provided for a cross-Government exercise co-ordinated to the problem of discards and it is essential that it is by Cabinet Office and HMT in March 2010. Job fundamentally reformed. I have made this clear in my descriptions will vary from organisation to organisation. discussions with the Commissioner and am ensuring that crucial evidence gathered from the UK’s discard Detailed figures relating to smaller arm’s length bodies reduction work is being used to influence and shape are not held centrally and could be collated only at reform. I will be meeting the Commissioner and other disproportionate cost. European Ministers again on 1 March at a Discards summit; this will be another excellent opportunity for Number the UK to steer thinking and to pursue its aim of Press officers working to end this wasteful practice. DEFRA 20.0 Animal Health 1.5 Dairy Farming British Waterways 4.0 CEFAS 0.3 Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment Agency 31 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many dairy FERA 1.0 farms there are in England; and what the average Kew 0 subsidy paid to each farm was in the latest period for Natural England 5.0 which figures are available. [41118] Rural Payments Agency 0.5 VLA 0 Mr Paice: Data from the June survey indicates that Total 63.3 there were 9,739 dairy farms in England in 2009. Data from the Farm Business Survey for dairy farms Internal communications officers in England shows that during the 12-month period DEFRA 10.0 ending February 2010, the average level of total support Animal Health 1.5 payment received by dairy farmers was £32,300. This British Waterways 2.0 figure includes an average 2009 single farm payment of CEFAS 0.2 £27,300 and agri-environment scheme payments which 927W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 928W

Number Number

Environment Agency 13 Environment Agency 24 FERA 0 FERA 0 Kew 0 Kew 4.0 Natural England 4.5 Natural England 6.0 Rural Payments Agency 4.0 Rural Payments Agency 8.0 VLA 2.5 VLA 2.0 Total 37.7 Total 58

External communication officers— Dogs: Electric Shock Equipment Marketing DEFRA 10.0 Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Animal Health 2.0 Food and Rural Affairs by what date she expects her British Waterways 8.0 Department’s research project on the implications for CEFAS 0 the welfare of dogs of electric shock collars to be Environment Agency 72 completed; and what plans she has to publish FERA 4.5 recommendations arising from the project. [39462] Kew 0 Natural England 4.0 Mr Paice: DEFRA’s study into the effect of pet Rural Payments Agency 1.5 training aids, specifically remote static pulse systems, on the welfare of domestic dogs will be completed later this VLA 3.0 year. As with all research, findings must be subject to Total 105 peer review before publication takes place. Forests Communication strategy officers DEFRA 6.0 Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Animal Health 1.5 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs which sites sold British Waterways 0 by the Forestry Commission in each constituency have CEFAS 0 been sold since May 2010; what the size was of each Environment Agency 77 such site; and how much funding was raised from each FERA 0 sale. [40424] Kew 0 Natural England 0 Mr Paice: In May 2010 Ministers inherited a programme Rural Payments Agency 0 of forestry sales from the financial year 2010-11 which VLA 0 had already commenced. Both the criteria and list were Total 84.5 drawn up by the previous administration. The coalition Government has committed to review the safeguards that are in place in order to secure public benefits. Other communication positions Accordingly the coalition Government has suspended includes managerial and support staff the 2011-12 sales programme in order to ensure adequate DEFRA 8.0 protections are in place. Animal Health 3.0 The Forestry Commission does not record sales by British Waterways 3.0 constituency. The following table gives details, by county, CEFAS 0 of land sold by the Forestry Commission since May 2010.

Date of Sale Wood name County AREA (ha) Selling price (£)

22 October 2010 College Wood, Biggleswade Bedfordshire 15 137,520 30 September 2010 Whitfield Wood, Brackley Buckinghamshire 38 353,000 15 December 2010 Stanley Beck, Wolsingham Rd County Durham 31 121,500 24 January 2011 The Stang County Durham 525 3,253,444 15 October 2010 Rigg Wood, Coniston Cumbria 16 116,000 1 December 2010 High Loft Wood, Cartmel Fell Cumbria 23 156,550 8 December 2010 Hoggarths Plantation, Ulverston Cumbria 27 205,000 4 January 2011 Park Wood, Bassenthwaite Cumbria 42 250,000 19 January 2011 Broomrigg Estate, Ainstable Cumbria 120 499,950 26 January 2011 Park Wood, Bassenthwaite Cumbria 11 150,000 3 February 2011 Cropple How Plantation, Ravenglass Cumbria 39 201,501 3 December 2010 Croftmoor Plantation, Halwill Devon 12 98,000 10 June 2010 Black Down, Dorchester Dorset 114 355,000 8 September 2010 The Stang Durham 71 42,000 20 August 2010 High Wood, Uckfield East Sussex 20 140,000 1 February 2011 Boxall’s and Cobden’s Copse Hampshire 9 111,700 12 October 2010 Buslingthorpe Wood Lincolnshire 22 115,908 929W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 930W

Date of Sale Wood name County AREA (ha) Selling price (£)

29 October 2010 Swanton Novers Wood Norfolk 172 315,000 7 January 2011 Great Heath Plantation, Thursford Norfolk 41 183,667 1 December 2010 Bonny Cliff Plantation, Faceby North Yorkshire 61 40,000 8 December 2010 Birch Plantation, Towthorpe North Yorkshire 3 8,000 25 January 2011 Kissthorn Wood, Sand Hutton North Yorkshire 3 35,162 11 November 2010 Priesthay Wood, Brackley Northamptonshire 6 60,100 22 December 2010 Wicken Wood, Lillingstone Lovell Northamptonshire 78 200,000 26 October 2010 Darcliff Wood, Nottinghamshire Nottinghamshire 18 75,000 30 November 2010 Cutts Long Belt, Rufford Nottinghamshire 13 112,050 7 December 2010 Annesley, Friezeland Nottinghamshire 20 70,000 7 December 2010 Little Oak Plantation, Annesley Nottinghamshire 9 35,000 7 October 2010 Pontesford Hill Shropshire 33 102,726 3 December 2010 Acton Burnell Park, Shrewsbury Shropshire 84 150,000 6 May 2010 Middle Hill, Chipstable Somerset 36 75,000 25 June 2010 Hugset Wood, Barnsley South Yorkshire 33 150,105

Roger Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Indicative funding for 2011-12 remains at the same Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment level as for 2010-11, and over the following three years, she has made of the contribution to biodiversity of the proposed funding for enforcement carried out by established conifer plantations owned and managed by GLA on behalf of Defra will remain at £2.6 million. the Forestry Commission. [40899] However, the Grant in Aid provided to fund the cost of operating the GLA licensing scheme will be reduced Mr Paice [holding answer 14 February 2011]: The annually so that by 2014-15 it will be approximately publication ‘Biodiversity in Britain’s Planted Forests’ £0.35 million less than in 2011-12. (2003) brings together results from the Forestry The notification to GLA is on the basis that the Commission’s Biodiversity Assessment Project to provide resource allocations may need to be adjusted in the light an in-depth assessment of the contribution of coniferous of circumstances over the spending review period; and forests to biodiversity. that commitments for 2011-12 should for now be held The Forestry Commission’s Forest Design Planning to 95% of the indicated allocation. process makes assessment of all areas of the public forest estate including many nationally and internationally £ million important areas of coniferous forest. Financial year Grant in Aid Enforcement Total Forests: Deer 2011-12 1.634 2.597 4.231 2012-13 1.418 2.597 4.015 2013-14 1.376 2.597 3.973 Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for 2014-15 1.291 2.597 3.888 Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what assessment she has made of the effects on the welfare of deer of This information is also available on the Defra website the implementation of her proposals for the disposal of at: Forestry Commission land. [39546] http://ww2.defra.gov.uk/corporate/about/reports 1 All figures rounded to the nearest £100,000. Mr Paice: Deer occur in most woodland. The Deer Initiative, a broad stakeholder partnership, promotes Inland Waterways: Avon best practice in deer management and offers advice to all landowners on this. The Forestry Commission England Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for remains committed to continuing its support for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Deer Initiative. progress has been made in consideration of the application for cruiseway status for the Kennet and Gangmasters Licensing Authority: Finance Avon Canal. [41562] Richard Benyon: British Waterways has applied for a Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for ministerial order under section 104(3) of the Transport Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what funding Act 1968 (the Act) to be made in order to reclassify the her Department has allocated to the Gangmasters ‘remainder’ parts of the Kennet and Avon canal to Licensing Authority over the Comprehensive Spending become a cruising waterway.Following public consultation Review period. [40601] as required under the Act, two objections to the order were received. A response from British Waterways to Mr Paice: The indicative annual funding1 allocations the issues raised in the objections was sought, and this notified to the Gangmasters Licensing Authority (GLA) was sent by DEFRA on 20 January 2011 to the bodies for the spending review period total £4.2 million in who had objected, with a request for them to confirm 2011-12, £4.0 million in 2012-13, £4.0 million in 2013-14 whether they would be content to withdraw their objections and £3.9 million in 2014-15, as set out in the following or to make any further comments. Responses have only table. just been received confirming neither objection had 931W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 932W been withdrawn. A decision by the Secretary of State Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for on whether to allow the application for an order by Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many oil British Waterways will be made in due course. spills or leaks in the Irish Sea have been reported to her Department in each of the past 10 years; and what the Irish Sea: Pollution type of leak was in each case. [41040] Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many incidents of ships illegally flushing their tanks in the Richard Benyon: Since 1 April 2010, the Marine Irish sea were reported to her Department in each of Management Organisation has dealt with marine pollution the past 10 years. [41036] incidents on behalf of DEFRA. DEFRA/MMO records for marine pollution go back to 2004, however, until Mike Penning: I have been asked to reply. January 2010 information such as location, quantity and source were not recorded for all spills. The following The Maritime and Coastguard Agency has not received table shows data for the Irish sea from 2010: any direct reports relating to incidents of ships illegally flushing tanks in the Irish sea over the last 10 years.

Date Location Source Type Quantity

21 December 2010 Walney offshore wind farm Remotely operated Hydraulic oil 8 litres underwater vessel 1 November 2010 Walney offshore wind farm Unknown Hydraulic oil Unknown—light sheen reported 26 September 2010 Morecambe gas field—18 nautical Firewater pump Mineral gas oil 2,000 litres miles offshore 24 June 2010 Pwllheli Unknown Diesel Unknown—light sheen reported 8 May 2010 Aberystwyth Yacht Diesel 1.5 gallons 18 May 2010 Port Penrhyn Sunken fishing vessel Diesel 2 gallons

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA), acting (NPSE) which was published in March 2010. It contains on behalf of the Department for Transport, collects the high level vision of promoting good health and more detailed data on marine oil spills. The MCA good quality of life (well being) through the effective commission the Advisory Committee on Protection of management of noise. It is supported by three aims and the Sea (ACOPS) to produce annual surveys of marine together they provide the necessary clarity and direction pollution attributed to shipping or offshore installations. to enable decisions to be made in any particular situation, These reports contain detailed information which is both nationally and locally, regarding what is an acceptable broken down by region (the Irish sea is one such region). noise burden to place on society. The ACOPS reports are available online at: Implementation of the policy will increase the http://www.acops.org.uk/acops-reports/ effectiveness and efficiency of the management of noise and will reduce the circumstances where noise has a National Nature Reserves significant adverse impact on health and well being. To implement this, officials have been working closely Bob Stewart: To ask the Secretary of State for with other Government Departments to ensure the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent NPSE is reflected in relevant policies. For example, the discussions she has had on the potential sale of consultation documents for the Public Health White National Nature Reserves. [41389] Paper, “Proposals for a Public Health Outcomes Framework” and the Local Transport White Paper all Richard Benyon: Natural England has been investigating contain references to the NPSE. different management options for National Nature Reserves Officials have also been working with other stakeholders and Ministers have had a number of discussions with to demonstrate how the NPSE can enable decisions to officials, Natural England and non-governmental be made regarding what is an acceptable noise burden organisations at which these have been covered. to place on society, at a local level. Noise: National Policy Statements Palm Oil Crops Nicky Morgan: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for answer to the hon. Member for Ilford North of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what discussions 26 January 2011, Official Report, column 522W, on she has had with Wetlands International on the effect local authorities: antisocial behaviour, what progress of the growth of palm oil crops on biodiversity. [41253] her Department has made in implementing the Noise Policy Statement for England. [40314] Richard Benyon: DEFRA records show that the Department has not held any discussions with Wetlands Richard Benyon: The Government’s policy on noise is International on the effect of the growth of palm oil set out in the Noise Policy Statement for England crops on biodiversity. 933W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 934W

Pets Department plans to publish a code of practice on the welfare of pet rabbits. [41254] Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will estimate the number Mr Paice: We have no current plans to publish a code of dogs and cats available for sale (a) through classified of practice on the welfare of pet rabbits. We consider advertisements and (b) via online sources in the latest that the requirements of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 period for which figures are available. [41255] to provide for the welfare needs of animals are sufficient Mr Paice: We have no current plans to assess the to ensure the necessary protection for the welfare of pet number of dogs and cats available for sale through rabbits. classified advertisements or via online sources. The independent Pet Advertising Advisory Group (PAAG), Squirrels consisting of representatives from animal welfare organisations, media publishing companies, industry, DEFRA and the police, have provided sound advice for Simon Hart: To ask the Secretary of State for both advertisers of pets for sale (in the press and on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many internet) and potential new owners. The group also licences were issued by Natural England for the release facilitates enforcement action where appropriate. More of grey squirrels into the wild in each year since 2008. information about PAAG can be found at: [39904] http://paag.org.uk/ Rabbits Richard Benyon: The number of licences issued by Natural England for the release of grey squirrels into Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for the wild in each year since 2008 is given in the following Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when her table.

Purpose Applications Licences granted Rehabilitation Animal welfare Scientific research

2008 8 6 2 4 — 2009 8 8 7 — 1 2010 12 11 8 — 3

Waste Disposal: Devonport Dockyard Mr Duncan: We are aware of the creation of high security zones in some parts of northern and eastern Sri Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Lanka which had originally been occupied by people Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will displaced by conflict. It is important that effective publish copies of written communications from her arrangements are made to provide fair, adequate and Department to the Ministry of Defence on the decision timely compensation to displaced people who are unable of the South West Waste Partnership (a) to site a to return to their original home and land. waste to energy plant in Devonport Naval Base and (b) link the power so provided to Babcock Marine. Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for [39857] International Development what recent assessment he has made of humanitarian conditions for internally Richard Benyon: It is not normal practice to publish displaced people in government-controlled camps in written communications between Government Departments Sri Lanka. [41061] (either on our website, or through other general media channels), although these are often released to the Mr Duncan: Department for International Development public as part of a request under the Freedom of (DFID) officials visited the camps for internally displaced Information Act 2000, or the Environmental Information people (IDPs) in Sri Lanka in November 2010. Since Regulations 2004. the end of the conflict in May 2009, the situation of IDPs has improved significantly. The number of people In the interest of open Government, if the hon. in the camps has reduced from about 300,000 to about Member informs me of any specific questions she has 18,000. It is expected that most of those remaining will about the project, I will endeavour to answer them. leave the camps during this year and return to their home.

INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Sudan: Overseas Aid

Sri Lanka: Internally Displaced People Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what humanitarian Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for assistance his Department is providing to northern International Development what assessment he has Sudan. [41541] made of the development implications of the displacement of people in northern and eastern Sri Mr Andrew Mitchell: There are serious humanitarian Lanka following the creation of High Security Zones. challenges in northern Sudan, particularly in the Darfur [41060] region, the three Eastern States (Red Sea, Kassala, and 935W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 936W

Gedaref) and in the Three Areas (Blue Nile, Southern The Multilateral Aid Review (MAR) that is being Kordofan, and Abyei). The UK’s biggest contribution carried out by my Department is assessing the effectiveness to humanitarian assistance in Sudan is through the and value for money provided by multilateral organisations UN-managed Common Humanitarian Fund. In 2009 including the World Bank. It is identifying additional (which is the last year for which we have confirmed areas for reforms. We have worked closely with our results), the UK’s assistance to the Common Humanitarian international counterparts on this, and will continue to Fund provided emergency shelter and essential household do so in supporting the bank to make further progress items for two million people, sustained a water supply in these areas. I will announce the results of the MAR to 725,000 people, delivered antenatal care for 100,000 in the coming weeks. pregnant women in Darfur, and rehabilitated eight primary health care centres serving more than 500,000 people. The UK delivers further humanitarian assistance in HOME DEPARTMENT northern Sudan through our partnerships with NGOs such as MedAir International. For example, in the last Crimes of Violence: Females six months of 2010, MedAir delivered 4,291 Safe Delivery Packs for pregnant women in West Darfur and Southern Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Kordofan. Home Department how many women who were the victims of (a) wounding and (b) grievous bodily harm United Nations had been previously stalked or harassed by the perpetrator in each year since 1998. [41493] Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for James Brokenshire: The information requested is not International Development what recent assessment he available centrally as police recorded crime data does has made of the steps taken by the UN to improve its not contain this level of detail. response to natural disasters; and if he will make a The Government are committed to tackling all forms statement. [41638] of violence against women and girls, including stalking, and published their vision and guiding principles in this Mr Andrew Mitchell: The UK Government remain area on 25 November 2010. A detailed range of supporting committed to supporting the further strengthening of actions, including those on tackling stalking, will be the international humanitarian system. The Department published in the spring. for International Development (DFID) has commissioned two major reviews which will help establish the UK’s Drugs: Crime future approach when responding to natural disasters. The Multilateral Aid Review (MAR) is assessing value Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for the for money of UK contributions to multilateral Home Department what the (a) cost and (b) organisations, including UN agencies and others covering outcomes for levels of drug crime in South Wales were humanitarian and disaster risk reduction issues, while of Operation Tarian. [40353] the Humanitarian Emergency Response Review (HERR), an independent review assessing the UK’s own James Brokenshire: Tarian’s costs in 2009-10 totalled humanitarian emergency response capability, will offer £5.3 million, £1.8 million of which was funded through some reflections on our partnership with UN agencies direct grant from the Home Office. during emergency responses. The conclusions of the Tarian has been responsible for a number of notable MAR will be announced in the coming weeks and those successes in recent years and for tackling increasing of the HERR by the end of March. levels of criminality that exceed the capability and capacity of forces acting alone, making a substantial DFID has also supported the development and impact on the flow of drugs into South Wales and the implementation of the Central Humanitarian Response finances of the organised crime groups operating within Fund (CERF) five-year evaluation and the second this area. Through its work there has been a substantial evaluation of country level Common Humanitarian increase in understanding of the threat to South Wales Funds (CHF) in Sudan, Democratic Republic of Congo from serious and organised crime. Tarian has reported and Central African Republic. that between 2005-06 and 2008-09, its Regional Task World Bank Force carried out over 100 operations/seizures, disrupted or dismantled over 70 organised crime groups and seized over 20 kg of heroin/cocaine. In 2010, Operation Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for “Texas” tackled an organised crime group operating in International Development what steps he is taking with South Wales, resulting in 11 defendants charged and his international counterparts to reform the World 17.5 kg of heroin seized—the largest ever seizure of its Bank; and if he will make a statement. [41637] kind in Welsh policing history. Mr Andrew Mitchell: Our close cooperation with Since the addition to Tarian of a Regional Asset international counterparts secured an International Recovery Team, the value of confiscation and cash Development Association (IDA) replenishment that led forfeiture orders made to date is in excess of £22.5 million, to a number of commitments by the World Bank to of which £13.4 million has been collected. reform its effectiveness. These include a stronger focus Police: Finance on results, improvements to the way in which the bank assists fragile and conflict-affected states, improving its Yvette Cooper: To ask the Secretary of State for the approach to the needs of girls and women, and the Home Department how much was allocated to police establishment of a crisis response facility to help poor forces by central Government in each year since 2005-06. countries facing shocks. [37716] 937W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 938W

Mrs May [holding answer 1 February 2011]: The information. The coverage of the survey was extended in ASHE information requested is shown in the following table. from Great Britain to United Kingdom. England and Wales ONS’s headline estimates of gender pay differences are based on median hourly earnings excluding overtime, but this measure £ billion is not available prior to 1997. Prior to 1997, estimates are only Revenue funding available for mean hourly earnings (excluding overtime) of full-time Financial and specific Capital grant Total grant employees in Great Britain. Therefore, in order to achieve continuity year grants funding funding of the earnings estimates used over the time period requested, 2005-06 8.1 0.2 8.3 mean hourly earnings (excluding overtime) in Great Britain has been used to answer this question. 2006-07 8.6 0.2 8.8 I therefore attach a table showing the gender pay gap in (i) 2007-08 9.0 0.2 9.2 1980, (ii) 1990, (iii) 2000 and (iv) 2010 for mean hourly earnings 2008-09 9.3 0.2 9.5 excluding overtime for all full-time male and female employees on 2009-10 9.5 0.2 19.8 adult rates of pay, whose pay for the survey period was not 2010-11 9.7 0.2 110.0 affected by absence, in Great Britain. 1 Totals are calculated with un-round numbers. In some cases they are Mean hourly pay excluding overtime earnings—gender pay gap for not the sum of the rounded components. full-time employee jobs1: April 1980,1990, 2000 and 2010 in Great Note: Britain From 2006-07 funding for pensions and security funding became Gender pay specific grants, and no longer part of general grant. All full-time All full-time gap Figures comprise the Home Office police grant and male (£) female (£) (percentage) certain specific grants and capital provision, and also the revenue support grant and national non-domestic 1980 2.88 2.06 28.5 rates (both provided by the Department for Communities 1990 6.89 5.27 23.5 and Local Government). 2000 11.58 9.22 20.4 2010 16.34 13.77 15.7 UK Border Agency: Peterborough City Council 1 Employees on adult rates whose pay for the survey pay-period was not affected by absence. Source: Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State for 1980 and 1990, New Earnings Survey (NES), Office for National the Home Department what services were provided to Statistics. Peterborough City Council by the UK Border Agency 2000 and 2001, Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), at a cost of £27,000 as published on the Council’s Office for National Statistics. website on 10 February 2011; and if she will make a statement. [41639] Businesses: Bexley

Damian Green: The UK Border Agency funds local Mr Evennett: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet authorities for caring for unaccompanied asylum seeking Office how many new business start-ups there were in children (UASC) or, in certain circumstances, the same Bexley in each of the last three years. [39934] children once they reach 18 years of age. The payment referred to on the Peterborough city council website of Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the £27,983 to the UK Border Agency relates to a repayment responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have of UASC grant money following the end of year asked the authority to reply. reconciliation for 2009-10. The payment was made on 11 January 2010. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking how many new business start-ups there were in Bexley in each of CABINET OFFICE the last three years. [39934] Annual statistics on the number of enterprise births are available Average Earnings from 2002 onwards in the ONS release on Business Demography at: www.statistics.gov.uk Rachel Reeves: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what the average gap between the earnings per The table below contains the latest statistics, which show the number of enterprise births in Bexley for 2007, 2008 and 2009. hour of a full-time (a) female and (b) male worker was in (i) 1980, (ii) 1990, (iii) 2000 and (iv) 2010. [40800] Enterprise births in Bexley, 2007-09 Number Mr Hurd [holding answer 14 February 2011]: The information requested falls within the responsibility of 2007 870 the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority 2008 795 to reply. 2009 720 Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I Infant Mortality have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question asking what the average gap between the earnings per hour of a full-time (a) female and (b) male worker was in (i) 1980, (ii) 1990, John Mann: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet (iii) 2000 and (iv) 2010. (40800). Office what the (a) neonatal, (b) infant and (c) child Average levels of earnings are estimated from the Annual mortality rates (i) at Doncaster hospital, (ii) at Bassetlaw Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), and prior to 1997 from hospital, (iii) in the Yorkshire strategic health authority the New Earnings Survey (NES). They are carried out in April area, (iv) at Huddersfield hospital and (v) nationally each year and are the most comprehensive source of earnings were in each of the last five years. [39875] 939W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 940W

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I asked the authority to reply. have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: what proportion of women aged 56 are forecast to live to the age of (a) 65, (b) 70, (c) 80 and (d) 100 (41450). As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent question asking what the The Office for National Statistics publishes life tables for the (a) neonatal, (b) infant and (c) child mortality rates (i) at Doncaster United Kingdom and its constituent countries. Hospital, (ii) at Bassetlaw Hospital, (iii) in the Yorkshire Strategic The table below gives the projected proportion for women aged Health Authority area, (iv) at Huddersfield Hospital and (v) 56 in 2010, resident in the United Kingdom, who will survive to nationally were in each of the last five years. [39875]. ages 65, 70, 80 and 100 taking into account assumed future Table 1 attached provides the (a) neonatal, (b) infant and (c) improvements in mortality. child mortality rates for the Yorkshire and Humber Strategic Health Authority and for England and Wales. Figures are for Age Year attains age Percentage 2004-09, the most recent period for which figures are available. 65 2019 95 Due to the sensitive nature of infant deaths and the risk of 70 2024 92 identifying individuals, ONS does not publish infant or child mortality figures by individual hospitals or groups of hospitals. 80 2034 78 Further it is not possible for ONS to calculate mortality rates for 100 2054 13 patients within individual hospitals or groups of hospitals, as there are no readily available data for the denominator populations. Older Workers Further information on infant and child mortality statistics is published on the Office for National Statistics website: http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/ Rachel Reeves: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Product.asp?vlnk=15309 Office what the labour market participation rate is for and (a) women and (b) men aged (i) between 50 and 55 http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/ and (ii) between 56 and 60 years. [40177] Product.asp?vlnk=15362 Mr Hurd [holding answer 11 February 2011]: The Table 1: Neonatal, infant and child mortality rates for Yorkshire and the Humber strategic health authority and for England and information requested falls within the responsibility of Wales, 2005-20091 the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 20091 to reply.

(a) neonatal Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: mortality rates per As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I 1,000 live births2 have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking England and Wales 3.5 3.4 3.5 3.3 3.2 3.1 what the labour market participation rate is for (a) women and (b) Yorkshire and the 3.8 4.0 3.9 3.9 3.4 3.4 men aged (i) between 50 and 55 and (ii) between 56 and 60 years. Humber SHA 40177 The labour market participation rate is measured using the Labour Force Survey and is the proportion of people who are (b) infant mortality economically active. The information requested is shown in the rates per 1,000 live births3 attached table. In accordance with the International Labour Organization (ILO) definition, people are classed as economically England and Wales 5.0 5.0 5.0 4.7 4.6 4.5 active if they are either in employment or unemployed. Yorkshire and the 5.8 6.0 5.7 5.6 5.4 5.1 Humber SHA Economic activity rate, by age group and sex, three months ending September 2010, United Kingdom, not seasonally adjusted Percentage (c) child mortality Male Female rates per 100,000 population of the Aged Aged Aged Aged same age4 50-55 56-60 50-55 56-60 England and Wales 14 14 14 14 12 n/a Percentage of 87.2 76.6 78.2 63.1 Yorkshire and the 15 17 15 16 14 n/a population that Humber SHA is economically n/a = Not available. active 1 Rates for 2009 are provisional. Source: 2 Rates per 1,000 live births for deaths at age under 28 days. Labour Force Survey. 3 Rates per 1,000 live births for deaths under one year. 4 Rates per 100,000 population for ages 1 to 14 years based on Personal Income mid-year population estimates.

Life Expectancy: Females Mr Meacher: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what estimate he has made of the level of Rachel Reeves: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet household personal disposable income (a) at current Office what proportion of women currently aged 56 are prices and (b) in real terms in each year since 1981; forecast to live to the age of (a) 65, (b) 70, (c) 80 and and what the percentage change was in those figures in (d) 100. [41450] each such year. [39952]

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority to reply. asked the authority to reply. 941W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 942W

Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated February 2011: Below Average Income (HBAI) series. This uses disposable household As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I income, adjusted using modified OECD equivalisation factors for have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking household size and composition, as an income measure as a what estimate he has made of the level of household personal proxy for standard of living. This data is at a household level. disposable income (a) at current prices and (b) in real terms in Estimates of median equivalised household disposable incomes each year since 1981; and what has been the percentage change in are available in the Households Below Average Income (HBAI) those figures in each such year. (39952) series, with figures for median household equivalised income in Data is not available for all years since 1981. Available data is real 2008/09 prices from 1994/95 to 2008/09 published in Table 2. given in the tables below, with percentage changes given where we Its of the HBAI publication available at have two contiguous years of data. Estimates of median equivalised http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/hbai/hbai_2009/ household disposable incomes are available in the Households index.php?page=contents

Table 1: Values of median weekly equivalised disposable household income, Before Housing Costs, 1981 to 2008/09, in current prices of the year in question and 2008/09 real terms prices Percentage change since Percentage change since Median income (cash previous year (cash Median income (real previous year (real terms) (£) terms) (%) terms) (£) terms) (%)

1981 UK 84 — 253 — 1987 UK 137 — 291 — 1988/89 UK 163 — 312 — 1990-91 UK 194 — 319 — 1991-92 UK 206 — 321 — 1992-93 UK 209 — 322 — 1993/94 to 1994/95 UK 226 — 327 — 1994/95 GB 232 — 322 — 1995/96 GB 239 3 322 0 1996/97 GB 258 8 336 4 1997/98 GB 266 3 342 2 1998/99 GB 274 3 348 2 1999/2000 GB 290 6 358 3 2000/01 GB 297 3 369 3 2001/02 GB 316 6 388 5 2002/03 UK 328 4 395 2 2003/04 UK 336 2 395 0 2004/05 UK 350 4 398 1 2005/06 UK 362 4 402 1 2006/07 UK 377 4 404 0 2007/08 UK 393 4 404 0 2008/09 UK 407 4 407 1 Source: Households Below Average Income, DWP Table 2: Values of median weekly equivalised disposable household income, After Housing Costs, 1981 to 2008/09, in current prices of the year in question and 2008/09 real terms prices Percentage change since Percentage change since Median income (cash previous year (cash Median income (real previous year (real terms) (£) terms) (%) terms) (£) terms) (%)

1981 UK 76 — 200 — 1987 UK 119 — 228 — 1988/89 UK 140 — 248 — 1990-91 UK 161 — 253 — 1991-92 UK 174 — 255 — 1992-93 UK 179 — 256 — 1993/94 to 1994/95 UK 194 — 261 — 1994/95 GB 196 — 254 — 1995/96 GB 203 3 255 0 1996/97 GB 217 7 268 5 1997/98 GB 225 4 273 2 1998/99 GB 232 3 279 2 1999/2000 GB 245 6 291 4 2000/01 GB 254 4 302 4 2001/02 GB 273 7 319 6 2002/03 UK 286 5 330 3 2003/04 UK 293 2 333 1 2004/05 UK 300 3 337 1 2005/06 UK 310 3 342 1 2006/07 UK 321 4 344 1 2007/08 UK 332 3 346 1 943W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 944W

Table 2: Values of median weekly equivalised disposable household income, After Housing Costs, 1981 to 2008/09, in current prices of the year in question and 2008/09 real terms prices Percentage change since Percentage change since Median income (cash previous year (cash Median income (real previous year (real terms) (£) terms) (%) terms) (£) terms) (%)

2008/09 UK 343 3 343 -1 Notes: 1. These statistics are based on Households Below Average Income. 2. The reference period for Households Below Average Income figures are single financial years. 3. Data from 1994/95 is sourced from the Family Resources Survey, with earlier data sourced from the Family Expenditure Survey. 4. FES figures are for the United Kingdom, FRS figures are for Great Britain up to 2001/02, and for the United Kingdom from 2002/03. The reference period for FRS figures is single financial years. FES figures are two combined calendar years from 1990/91-1992/93 and two financial years combined for 1993/95. 5. Small changes should be treated with caution as these will be affected by sampling error and variability in non-response. 6. The income measures used to derive the estimates shown employ the same methodology as the Department for Work and Pensions publication ‘Households Below Average Income’ series, which uses disposable household income, adjusted (or ‘equivalised’) for household size and composition, as an income measure as a proxy for standard of living, equivalised using Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development equivalisation factors. 7. Median incomes have been provided rather than mean incomes because the income distribution is skewed with some outliers with high incomes. 8. Weekly incomes have been rounded to the nearest pound sterling, while percentage changes have been rounded to the nearest percentage point. 9. Figures have been presented on a Before Housing Cost and an After Housing Cost basis. For Before Housing Costs, housing costs (such as rent, water rates, mortgage interest payments, structural insurance payments and ground rent and service charges) are not deducted from income, while for After Housing Costs they are. Source: Households Below Average Income, DWP

Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme and bringing the knowledge, skills and expertise of the business community to good use locally. Fujitsu have Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet committed to developing and running a new IT platform Office what proportion of active members of the to support business connectors and link businesses to Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme earn (a) their local communities. between £10,000 and £15,000, (b) between £15,000 and £20,000, (c) between £20,000 and £25,000, (d) Members: Correspondence between £25,000 and £30,000 and (e) £30,000 and more. [40375] Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Prime Minister (1) when he plans to respond to the letter from the hon. Member Mr Maude: As at 31 March 2010 the proportion of for Bury South, dated 24 January 2011; [38789] active members of the Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme earning (a) between £10,000 and £15,000, (b) (2) when he plans to answer question 38789, on between £15,000 and £20,000, (c) between £20,000 and correspondence with the hon. Member for Bury South, £25,000, (d) between £25,000 and £30,000 and (e) tabled on 2 February 2011 for named day answer on £30,000 and more are as follows: 7 February. [41080]

Earnings range Active membership (%) The Prime Minister: A reply has been sent.

£10,000-£15,000 4 £15,000-£20,000 30 £20,000-£25,000 22 TREASURY £25,000-£30,000 18 Over £30,000 26 Banks: Pay

Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Chancellor of the PRIME MINISTER Exchequer (1) if he will publish a list of each attendee at each meeting which has taken place as part of Business: Community Development Project Merlin; [39317] (2) how many meetings relating to Project Merlin Chris Ruane: To ask the Prime Minister which have involved small businesses in (a) the South West, companies have informed him of their intention to (b) the South East, (c) the West Midlands and (d) participate in the Every Business Commits initiative. London. [39318] [40959] Mr Hanson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Davey: I have been asked to reply. how many meetings relating to Project Merlin have Our immediate priority has been to set about removing involved small businesses in (a) the East Midlands, (b) obstacles to businesses delivering on the commitments the North West, (c) the North East, (d) Wales and (e) set out in the Every Business Commits initiative. Alongside Scotland. [39320] this work, we are proactively working directly with businesses, and umbrella organisations such as Business Mr Hoban [holding answer 9 February 2011]: Treasury in the Community, to identify specific actions businesses Ministers and officials have meetings with a wide variety can take. For example, Sainsbury’s is committed to of organisations in the public and private sectors as paying for a number of senior managers to work full-time part of the process of policy development and delivery. within their communities as business connectors, helping It is not the Government’s practice to provide details of businesses and the voluntary sector work closer together, all such meetings. 945W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 946W

Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Chancellor of the The review of mobility provision will allow us to put Exchequer what (a) (i) discussions and (ii) meetings his in place proper support for care home residents that Department had with and (b) representations he takes full account of their individual needs and puts received from the Scottish Government on Project clear duties in place to safeguard the most vulnerable. Merlin prior to 9 February 2011. [41200]

Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers and officials have Financial Services: Consumer Protection meetings with a wide variety of organisations in the public and private sectors as part of the process of Lorely Burt: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer policy development and delivery.It is not the Government’s what contribution he plans to make on consumer practice to provide details of all such meetings. protection in financial services to the Financial Child Care Tax Credit Stability Board prior to the G20 Summit in November 2011. [41532]

Ms Buck: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Hoban: The Financial Stability Board (FSB) is what assessment he has made of the effects on work currently developing its consultation. The UK is seeking incentives of reductions in entitlement to the child care to take a full role in the consultation process to inform element of working tax credit. [41448] the FSB’s thinking and is currently in discussions with the FSB to determine how we can most effectively Mr Gauke: The estimates of the impact of the reduction contribute. in entitlement to the child care element presented in the ‘Spending Review 2010 policy costings’ document consider only the first-order effects of the policy. Financial Services: Pay The Office for Budget Responsibility’s “Economic and Fiscal Outlook” considered the wider indirect effects of welfare reforms made in the spending review. Full Ms Angela Eagle: To ask the Chancellor of the details are available at: Exchequer on what date he next expects to discuss with his European counterparts an agreement on http://budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/d/ econ_fiscal_outlook_291110.pdf transparency for executive pay in the financial services sector. [39307] Departmental Conferences Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers and officials have Robert Halfon: To ask the Chancellor of the meetings with a wide variety of organisations in the Exchequer (1) what steps he has taken since his public and private sectors as part of the process of appointment to reduce expenditure on conferences policy development and delivery.It is not the Government’s practice to provide details of all such meetings. from budgets within his responsibility; [28356] (2) what his Department’s annual budget for conferences was at (a) 7 May 2010 and (b) 7 Ed Balls: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he plans to take to secure agreement with December 2010. [30032] other European countries on transparency of executive Justine Greening: Conference spending, along with pay in the financial services sector. [39509] all other spending by the Department, is subject to rigorous scrutiny and regular review to ensure there is a Mr Hoban [holding answer 10 February 2011]: necessary business need for the spending and that it Remuneration disclosure has been discussed as part of represents good value for money. the Government’s dialogue with other jurisdictions and we continue to consider proposals to strengthen The Treasury does not have a specific budget for remuneration disclosure, including of executive pay in conferences, but conference costs are included within the financial services sector. HM Treasury’s wider hospitality, catering and conferences budget. At 7 May 2010 this budget was £705,000 and at The Chancellor has called on counterparts in the 7 December 2010 was £655,000. The full year forecast is European Union to consider urgently proposals to now £477,000. strengthen remuneration disclosure. While there is a range of views among the international community, Disability Living Allowance: Care Homes there is consensus and support for an internationally consistent approach to remuneration disclosure. Dame Anne Begg: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer with reference to spending review 2010, Ed Balls: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer page 69, what estimate his Department has made of the how many of his Department’s meetings on Project amount of public funds spent on meeting the mobility Merlin have involved small businesses in Northern needs of those in receipt of disability living allowance Ireland. [39515] who live in residential care excluding funding spent by the Department for Work and Pensions; and what the Mr Hoban [holding answer 10 February 2011]: Treasury evidential basis is for this estimate. [41120] Ministers and officials have meetings with a wide variety of organisations in the public and private sectors as Justine Greening: Mobility provision for people in part of the process of policy development and delivery. residential care homes will be reviewed as part of wider It is not the Government’s practice to provide details of reform of DLA. all such meetings. 947W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 948W

Income Tax: Northern Ireland It is estimated that the number of employees for whom employers pay national insurance will decrease Lady Hermon: To ask the Chancellor of the by 650,000 due to the increase in the secondary threshold Exchequer how many residents of Northern Ireland by £21 above indexation in April 2011. Estimates for there were in each income tax band in each of the last local authorities, parliamentary constituencies and regions 10 years for which figures are available. [41031] are not available. The estimate above is based on Annual Survey of Mr Gauke: The requested information can be found Hours and earnings data for employees, projected using on the HMRC website on page 3 of table 2-2 at the economic assumptions consistent with the Office for following address: Budget Responsibility’s autumn 2010 forecast. http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/stats/income_tax/table2-2.pdf Detailed estimates of numbers of businesses benefitting Members: Correspondence and average impacts per business are not available. However, all employers paying employer contributions gain up to £150 per employee as a result of the increase Sir Gerald Kaufman: To ask the Chancellor of the in the secondary threshold. Statistics published by Business Exchequer when he plans to respond to the letter from Innovation and Skills show there are around 1.8 million the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton of 9 businesses with employees in 2009, the majority of December 2010 in regard to Ms G Brownridge. [36052] which are likely to benefit. Justine Greening: I have replied to the right hon. Member. Revenue and Customs: ICT Mr Winnick: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) when he expects to respond to the letter from the Mike Freer: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer hon. Member for Walsall North of 11 January 2011 what assessment he has made of the capacity of sent to the Department of Energy and Climate Change, commercial software suppliers to provide the necessary reference 7/22583/2011 and transferred to his software for businesses to comply with the April 2011 Department, regarding a constituent; [39514] implementation deadline set by HM Revenue and (2) whether the hon. Member for Walsall North will Customs for iXBRL filing. [41092] receive a reply to his letter of 9 February 2011 concerning a constituent and dealing with domestic energy prices despite the circulation of a standard letter Mr Gauke: Over 30 commercial suppliers whose iXBRL to hon. Members on fuel prices from the Economic enabled software products have been successfully tested Secretary to the Treasury. [41461] with HMRC are listed on HMRC’s website. All have provided evidence that their software can produce Justine Greening: I wrote to all hon. Members on 9 documents compliant with the iXBRL requirements February to set out the Government’s overall position being brought in from 1 April 2011. on fuel duty. I will reply separately to the hon. Member’s correspondence concerning domestic energy prices. Mike Freer: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer National Insurance Contributions what assessment he has made of (a) the likely effect on business costs of the implementation of iXBRL filing, (b) the likely effect of penalties imposed by HM Matthew Hancock: To ask the Chancellor of the Revenue and Customs on small businesses unable to Exchequer (1) if he will estimate the number of comply with the iXBRL filing deadline and (c) the employees for whom employers pay no national effect on receipts to the Exchequer of extending the insurance contributions in each (a) local authority, (b) iXBRL filing deadline beyond April 2011. [41093] parliamentary constituency and (c) region; and what estimate he has made of the effect on this number of the proposal to raise national insurance threshold for Mr Gauke: HMRC published a regulatory impact employers by £21 a week above indexation from April assessment (RIA) in 2007. This provided an estimate of 2011; [39170] the one off costs for businesses from the increase of (2) if he will estimate the number of businesses in online filing generally.Now that a range of iXBRL-enabled each (a) local authority, (b) parliamentary constituency software is available, HMRC will update this RIA. and (c) region which will be affected by the change in There are no new penalties associated with the national insurance threshold for employers in April introduction of iXBRL. As currently, people may be 2011; [39189] penalised if they file returns late. But HMRC has confirmed (3) if he will estimate the effect on an average that if a deadline is missed because of implementation business in each (a) local authority, (b) Parliamentary issues with iXBRL software their well-established reasonable constituency and (c) region of the change in national excuse provisions will apply. HMRC’s guidance on insurance threshold for employers in April 2011. transitional arrangements can be found at: [39190] http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ct/mandatory-online-filing.pdf Mr Gauke: Estimates of the total number of employees April 2011 is not a filing deadline. It is the implementation earning below the secondary threshold for national date for mandatory filing of Company Tax Returns insurance contributions in 2011-12 are not available using iXBRL. No assessment has been made of the through HMRC administrative data sources. effect on receipts of changing this date. 949W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 950W

Royal Bank of Scotland: Santander Mr Hoban [holding answer 11 February 2011]: UK Financial Investment’s (UKFI) mandate is to develop and execute a strategy for disposing of the Government’s Chris Leslie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer investments in financial institutions in an orderly and what assessment he has made of the likely effects on active way, within the context of protecting and creating competition of the sale of Royal Bank of Scotland value for the taxpayer as shareholder and paying due branches to Santander. [40444] regard to the maintenance of financial stability and to acting in a way that promotes competition. UKFI is Mr Hoban [holding answer 11 February 2011]: The responsible for recommending sales to the Chancellor Royal Bank of Scotland is required to execute the sale in line with its Framework Agreement and Investment of a retail banking business with a 5% market share in Mandate. the small and medium enterprise (SME) market as a condition of EU state aid approval for the aid they have UKFI’s mandate was constructed to reflect the key received. The terms of this approval committed that the factors that will drive the Government’s decisions with buyer of the divestment must, in combination with the respect to disposals of the publicly-owned banks. Good divestment business, have a SME market share of no outcomes for the Exchequer, financial stability and more than 14% in the UK. This condition on the competition are all clearly in the public interest. maximum size of potential purchasers was set based on evidence from the UK competition authorities as to the size of banks that behave as challengers to the large VAT: Supermarkets incumbent banks. Santander UK currently have a small SME market share in the UK and in combination with Mr Frank Field: To ask the Chancellor of the the RBS divestment will have less than a 14% share of Exchequer whether he plans to extend the application that market. As such, the sale will serve to increase of the basic rate of value added tax to hot food sold competition in the UK banking sector as a whole, and from delicatessen counters in supermarkets; and if he especially in the SME market. will make a statement. [41460]

Taxation Mr Gauke: The rules concerning hot take-away food are the same for all businesses. Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Chancellor of the VAT is payable on a supply of hot food that has been Exchequer if he will review the exemptions for heated for the purposes of enabling it to be consumed at woodland owners from (a) capital gains tax, (b) a temperature above the ambient air temperature and it inheritance tax and (c) income tax. [34390] is above that temperature at the time it is provided to the customer. The Chancellor keeps all taxes under Mr Gauke: I refer the hon. Lady to the answer I gave review and announces any changes as part of the budget on 24 January 2011, Official Report, column 125W. process.

Taxation: Aviation Welfare Tax Credits: Repayments

Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what assessment has been made of the Mr Sanders: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer effects on the level of aviation taxation in the UK and if he will fund proposals to allow tax credit claimants (a) economic activity, (b) trade, (c) tourism and (d) who have received erroneous payments due to administrative error to have payments backdated by growth; and if he will make a statement; [40928] more than three months; and if he will make a (2) what assessment he has made of the effects of the statement. [40958] level of aviation taxation and the UK’s ability to increase its trade with (a) China and (b) India; Mr Gauke: HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) [40929] code of practice 26 (COP-26) “What happens if we’ve (3) what assessment he has made of the effects of the paid you too much tax credit?” outlines the Department’s level of aviation taxation and the UK’s ability to attract approach to overpayments. The COP 26 is available on more tourists from (a) China and (b) India. [40930] the HMRC website together with customer guidance about backdating tax credits entitlement at: Justine Greening: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredits/index.htm answer given to the hon. Member for Central Suffolk Regulation 7 of the Tax Credits (Claims and and North Ipswich (Dr Poulter) on 22 November 2010, Notifications) Regulations 2002 provides for tax credits Official Report, column 83W. entitlement to be backdated up to a maximum of 93 days. Regulation 8 outlines the circumstances in which entitlement UK Financial Investments can be backdated for longer than 93 days for working tax credit claims including the disability element. Chris Leslie: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Regulation 3 of the Tax Credits (Official Error) what assessment he has made of the merits of Regulations 2003 provides for the revision of incorrect introducing a public interest test in respect of disposal decisions, and gives a time limit of five years after the of assets of companies in which UK Financial end of the tax year to which the decision relates, where a Investments Ltd holds a stake. [40446] decision was a result of an Official Error. 951W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 952W

WORK AND PENSIONS Departmental Manpower Access to Work Programme: Sign Language Mr McFadden: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what the most recent previous Michael Connarty: To ask the Secretary of State for employment was of each senior staff member newly Work and Pensions how many applications were (a) employed on a fixed-term contract in his Department made and (b) approved under the Access to Work since May 2010. [39565] scheme for sign language interpreting services (i) in 2009-2010 and (ii) between January and November Chris Grayling: There have been no senior staff members 2010. [40692] newly employed on a fixed term contract in the Department since May 2010. Maria Miller: The information requested is not routinely collected and could be obtained only at disproportionate Departmental Official Cars cost. Cumulative data about the numbers and types of Mr McFadden: To ask the Secretary of State for people who are helped by Access to Work is published Work and Pensions how many ministerial cars his quarterly on the DWP website. The latest data, published Department has used since May 2010. [39563] in December 2010, covered the period from April to September 2010. Chris Grayling: The Government Car Service provides Of the 37,210 people who were helped by Access to a safe and secure transport for Government Ministers Work between April 2009 and March 2010, 5,450 said and their official papers. that their primary need for support was because of a As per the arrangement under the previous difficulty hearing. Administration, the DWP had five ministerial cars allocated Of the 29,040 people that Access to Work helped to Ministers in May 2010. between April and September 2010, 4,580 said that A review was launched and from 6 September, the their primary need for support was because of a difficulty number of vehicles was reduced to one allocated ministerial hearing. car for the Secretary of State. At the same time a Children: Maintenance ministerial car pool was introduced for other Ministers to use. Mr Kennedy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work This revised operating model has reduced expenditure and Pensions when he expects the Child Maintenance by 54%. and Enforcement Commission to conduct its review of The Department is continuing to explore other options procedures and rules relating to share care cases; and to provide this service and further reduce its cost. what consideration will be given to cases in which the disparity in income between the non-resident parent Departmental Public Expenditure and the parent who is caring for the child is substantial. [38754] Mr McFadden: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how much his Department has Maria Miller: The Government have recently published spent on travel for officials since May 2010. [38528] a consultation document “Strengthening families, promoting parental responsibility: the future of child Chris Grayling: The Department is currently reviewing maintenance” available at: all expenditure with a view to driving out inefficiencies http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/strengthening-families.pdf and delivering value for money for the taxpayer. The Government want to encourage parents to reach In line with the Government’s austerity agenda, the family-based arrangements for child maintenance which Department for Work and Pensions has taken vigorous will facilitate co-parenting and ongoing involvement of action to enhance business travel policy. Overall this is both parents in their children’s lives. If parents can projected to produce savings in the region of 40%, come to an agreement about shared care we would hope measured against last year’s expenditure. The DWP’s that they could also make a family-based arrangement business travel policy actively discourages travel, unless suitable to both parties. the alternatives have been examined and exhausted and The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission where travel is deemed appropriate, encourages the use (the Commission) is currently reviewing shared care as of the most cost-effective modes of transport. it makes plans to move to the new child maintenance Measuring the expenditure since May 2010, against a system in 2012. The new child maintenance system comparable period last year illustrates that the expenditure seeks to deliver calculations which are simpler, quicker on travel has fallen by ‘45%’: and more transparent. In keeping with the objective of simpler calculations, liabilities will continue to be based Period (May to December each Expenditure (£ million/ on the relevant income of the non-resident parent. year) percentage) A disparity in income levels between the parent with 2010 (£ million) 23.9 care and non-resident parent does not alter parent’s 2009 (£ million) 43.6 responsibility to support their child. This is a central Percentage reduction -45 principle of child support legislation and the majority of non-resident parents, including those on lower incomes The total expenditure set out above needs to be seen or in receipt of benefits, are required to make some in the context of a Department with over 100,000 staff contribution to the support of their child. based in over 900 locations throughout Great Britain. 953W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 954W

The above expenditure also includes elements of the Maria Miller: No time limit is made for the receipt of cost of provision of transport, to meet the Departments’ disability living allowance with regard to any particular obligations, under the Disability Discrimination Act. diagnosis. Awards of disability living allowance, whether It should be noted that in order for the DWP to made for an indefinite period or a fixed period, are provide the full scope of services, in line with its key made on the basis that the conditions of entitlement objectives, a certain degree of business travel is required, upon which that award was made are met, and continue for example, trainers will travel to multiple sites; fraud to be met. investigation staff will conduct surveillance exercises; Jobcentre Plus staff carry out outreach activity outside Health and Safety Executive of the Government estate, all in the course of their duties. Mr Brady: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions when he expects the Health and Safety Disability Living Allowance Executive to bring forward proposals for the next steps in its development as a more commercial entity Jake Berry: To ask the Secretary of State for Work competing where relevant in an open market. [40505] and Pensions how many residents of Rossendale and Darwen constituency receiving disability living Chris Grayling: The Minister for Employment has allowance (DLA) have had their DLA payments asked the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) to develop reassessed in the last 12 months; how many of these and progressively implement ways of reducing the funding had their payments (a) reduced, (b) increased and (c) that the Government provides over the course of the revoked; how many appealed their reassessment; and next four financial years. A wide range of potential how many were successful in their appeal. [40439] options will be examined and until the work is further advanced it is not possible set a firm timetable. Maria Miller: We are not able to say how many residents of Rossendale and Darwen constituency receiving Housing Benefit disability living allowance (DLA) have had their DLA payments reassessed in the last 12 months; how many of these had their payments (a) reduced, (b) increased Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and and (c) revoked; how many appealed their reassessment; Pensions what definition he uses for under-occupancy and how many were successful in their appeal. This is of social rented accommodation for the purposes of because our management information system for DLA restricting housing benefit. [40575] does not enable us to provide details at that level. Steve Webb: The detail of this measure is still being Mr Leech: To ask the Secretary of State for Work considered but we anticipate that we shall use the same and Pensions what assessment he has made of the size criteria as currently used for assessing housing proportion of the mobility element of disability living benefit in the private sector under the local housing allowance that is spent by recipients on (a) critical and allowance. That is, one bedroom for each of the following: (b) social needs. [41308] a couple a person who is not a child (age 16 and over) Maria Miller: DLA provides a cash contribution two children of the same sex towards the extra costs arising from disability and uses two children who are under 10 mobility and care needs as proxies for those extra costs. any other child. The benefit is unconditional and recipients are free to use it according to their own priorities. Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and A recent report conducted by the university of York Pensions when he plans to publish the two-year review for the Department “The impact of Disability Living of the local housing allowance. [40576] Allowance and Attendance Allowance: Findings from exploratory qualitative research”—Research Report Steve Webb: The Two Year Review of the Local No. 649—available at: Housing Allowance was published on Thursday http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2009-2010/ 10 February 2011. The report can be found at the rrep649.pdf following link: suggests that disability living allowance recipients spend http://www.dwp.gov.uk/local%2Dauthority%2Dstaff/ the benefit on a wide range of mobility support to meet housing%2Dbenefit/claims%2Dprocessing/local% their needs. This includes: transport, such as taxis; 2Dhousing%2Dallowance/evaluation/ purchasing particular types of mobility aids; electric scooters; customised wheelchairs; paying for adaptations Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for around the home to prevent falls; and accessing vehicles Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of through the Motability scheme. the liability of local authorities for penalties for early termination of contracts for outsourced housing Disability Living Allowance: AIDS benefit administration when housing support is centralised following implementation of his proposals Stephen Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for for universal credit. [40889] Work and Pensions what his policy is on the length of time for which persons diagnosed with AIDS prior to Steve Webb: The Department for Work and Pensions 1999 will be eligible for disability living allowance. will be responsible for organising the delivery of Universal [40987] Credit. We have not yet finalised the detail and therefore 955W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 956W the impact on organisations currently delivering benefits Industrial Health and Safety that universal credit will replace. We will work closely with local authorities to understand and manage the impacts so that we can transition customers smoothly to any new arrangements. Margot James: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions whether the Health and Safety Executive has launched the simplified interactive risk Housing Benefit: Pregnant Women assessment form for (a) offices, (b) classrooms and (c) shops recommended in Lord Young’s report, Common Sense, Common Safety. [41203] Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions at what point single pregnant women become entitled to the single room rate of housing benefit rather than the shared room rate; and Chris Grayling: The Health and Safety Executive if he will make a statement. [41544] launched a tool for low-risk office-based environments on 15 October 2010. A classroom tool was launched for Steve Webb: Pregnant single women under 25 are consultation on 22 November 2010. In addition, tools entitled to the shared accommodation rate until they for low risk shops and charity shops were launched for give birth, at which point they become entitled to the consultation on 15 and 23 December respectively. two bedroom rate of local housing allowance. If a woman in these circumstances chooses to move into Jobcentre Plus: Kilmarnock larger accommodation before the birth of her child she will need to meet the rent shortfall from other income Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for or she could apply to her local authority to be considered Work and Pensions when he next plans to visit the for a discretionary housing payment. Jobcentre that serves Kilmarnock and Loudoun constituency; and if he will make a statement. [41058] Incapacity Benefit: Dartford Chris Grayling: Since May 2010, the Department’s ministerial team has visited numerous constituencies Gareth Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for and Jobcentres across the UK. Work and Pensions how many people in Dartford constituency successfully claimed incapacity benefit due The Department’s ministerial team currently have no plans to visit the Kilmarnock and Loudoun constituency, to heart disease in each of the last five years. [41146] however, should any Ministers do so, they will look to visit the Jobcentre there. Maria Miller: The information requested is as follows: Incapacity benefit and severe disablement allowance (IB/SDA) and Pensioners: Personal Savings employment and support allowance (ESA) claimants in Dartford constituency Claiming on the basis Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for As at May each year Total of heart disease Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the IB/SDA proportion of (a) women and (b) men aged 56 who have pension savings of (i) less than £2,000, (ii) less 2006 2,970 90 than £4,000 (iii) less than £6,000 and (iv) less than 2007 2,960 80 £8,000. [41451] 2008 3,020 90 2009 2,720 70 Steve Webb: The information requested is as follows: 2010 2,340 60 (a) Proportion of women who have private pension wealth of (i) less than £2,000, (ii) less than £4,000, (iii) less than £6,000 and (iv) less ESA than £8,000 aged 56 in 2006-08 2010 670 20 Amount of private pension Proportion of women aged 56 Notes: wealth (%)1 1. Data is rounded to nearest 10. 2. To qualify for incapacity benefit (IB), claimants have to undertake Less than: a medical assessment of incapacity for work called a personal capability £2,000 42 assessment. Under the employment and support allowance regime, £4,000 44 new claimants have to undergo the work capability assessment. From April 2011 incapacity benefit recipients will begin also to undertake £6,000 47 this assessment. The medical condition recorded on the claim form £8,000 49 does not itself confer entitlement to incapacity benefit or employment and support allowance. So, for example, a decision on entitlement for (b) Proportion of men who have private pension wealth of (i) less a customer claiming incapacity benefit on the basis of “heart disease” than £2,000, (ii) less than £4,000, (iii) less than £6,000 and (iv) less would be based on their ability to carry out the range of activities than £8,000 aged 56 in 2006-08 related to physical and mental function, assessed by the personal/work Amount of private pension capability assessment. 3. Incapacity benefit was replaced by employment wealth Proportion of men aged 56 (%)1 and support allowance (ESA) from October 2008. 4. Constituencies used for May 2010 are for the Westminster Parliament Less than: of 2010. Prior to this, the constituencies used are for May 2005. £2,000 25 5. Data by medical condition for ESA is only available from 2010. Source: £4,000 27 DWP Information Directorate 100% WPLS. £6,000 28 957W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 958W

(b) Proportion of men who have private pension wealth of (i) less than £2,000, (ii) less than £4,000, (iii) less than £6,000 and (iv) less £ than £8,000 aged 56 in 2006-08 Aged Median1 Mean1

Amount of private pension 50 11,390 87,184 wealth Proportion of men aged 56 (%)1 1 Includes those with zero pension wealth. Notes: £8,000 30 1. We interpreted the question to mean wealth held in private pensions. Private pensions are all pensions that are not state basic retirement or 1 Includes those with zero pension wealth. state earnings related. There are nine categories included in the Notes: estimates of private pension wealth: defined benefit (DB) pensions, 1. We interpreted the question to mean wealth held in private pensions. defined contribution (DC) pensions and personal pensions to which Private pensions are all pensions that are not state basic retirement or the individual was contributing at the time of survey, additional state earnings related. There are nine categories included in the voluntary contributions (AVCs) made to current pensions, retained estimates of private pension wealth: defined benefit (DB) pensions, rights in DB and DC schemes, pension funds from which the individual defined contribution (DC) pensions and personal pensions to which was drawing an income through income drawdown, pensions in the individual was contributing at the time of survey, additional payment and pensions expected in the future based on the contributions voluntary contributions (AVCs) made to current pensions, retained of a former spouse. The estimates quoted include those individuals rights in DB and DC schemes, pension funds from which the individual with zero pension wealth. The private pension wealth figures provided was drawing an income through income drawdown, pensions in here were not immediately available from the Wealth and Assets payment and pensions expected in the future based on the contributions Survey report, and were obtained by carrying out in house analysis of of a former spouse. The estimates quoted include those individuals the data. with zero pension wealth. The private pension wealth figures provided 2. We provide figures for both mean and median private pension here were not immediately available from the Wealth and Assets wealth. The median may provide a better measure compared to the Survey report, and were obtained by carrying out in-house analysis of mean since the distribution of private pension wealth can be skewed the data. by a small number of very large amounts of wealth at the top of the 2. The Wealth and Assets Survey (WAS) is a large scale nationally distribution. representative longitudinal survey of over 30,000 private households 3. The Wealth and Assets Survey (WAS) is a large scale nationally in Great Britain that provides comprehensive information on people’s representative longitudinal survey of over 30,000 private households assets and net wealth. The first wave was conducted from July 2006 to in Great Britain that provides comprehensive information on people’s June 2008. It collected detailed information on financial and non-financial assets and net wealth. The first wave was conducted from July 2006 to assets, and wealth components such as savings, pensions, property, June 2008. It collected detailed information on financial and non-financial mortgages and debt as well as people’s attitudes and savings behaviour assets, and wealth components such as savings, pensions, property, over time. mortgages and debt as well as people’s attitudes and savings behaviour 3. Extensive analysis of pension wealth using the Wealth and Assets over time. data is available in “Wealth in Great Britain 2006-08” at the following 4. Extensive analysis of pension wealth using the Wealth and Assets web link: data is available in ‘Wealth in Great Britain 2006/08’ at the following http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_economy/wealth- web link: assets-2006-2008/Wealth_in_GB_2006_2008.pdf http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloads/theme_economy/wealth- Source: assets-2006-2008/Wealth_in_GB_2006_2008.pdf Wealth and Assets Survey 2006-08 Source: Wealth and Assets Survey 2006/08

Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Public Expenditure Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of average monetary value of pension savings of (a) men Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for and (b) women aged (i) 30, (ii) 40 and (iii) 50. [41452] Work and Pensions how much Barnett consequential funding his Department has provided to each of the devolved Administrations in (a) 2010-11 to date and Steve Webb: The information requested is as follows: (b) each of the last three years; and with which programmes such funding was associated. [39378] (a) Estimates of pension wealth held by men aged (i) 30, (ii) 40 and (iii) 50 in private pensions in 2006/08 are Chris Grayling: In the 2010 spending review changes as follows: in the DEL budgets of the devolved Administrations were determined by the Barnett formula in the normal £ way. The settlements for the years 2011-12 to 2014-15 Aged Median1 Mean1 were published in table 2.22 of the 2010 spending review document (Cm 7942). 30 0 20,538 40 12,375 79,117 Barnett consequentials relating to each of the devolved 50 54,752 158,496 Administrations for the years 2008-09 to 2010-11 are 1 Includes those with zero pension wealth. published as part of the Public Expenditure Statistical Source: Analyses Supplementary Material on the Treasury’s Wealth and Assets Survey 2006-08 website under the heading “House of Lords Select Committee on the Barnett Formula”: (b) Estimates of pension wealth held by women aged http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/pespub_pesa10.htm (i) 30, (ii) 40 and (iii) 50 in private pensions in 2006/08 Updated tables taking account of adjustments since are as follows: the publication of the 2010 edition of PESA will be published alongside the next edition of PESA later this £ year. Aged Median1 Mean1 Information on the block grants paid by the territorial 30 0 15,849 offices to the devolved Administrations is published 40 5,287 44,577 alongside the Main and Supplementary Estimates. 959W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 960W

Remploy Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number of Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and households which will be subject to the cap on benefit Pensions pursuant to the answer of 13 December 2010, entitlement where social rents are set at 80% of market Official Report, column 461W, to the hon. Member for rents. [40579] Glasgow East, on Remploy, when he expects the independent review of the support the Government Steve Webb: Work between DWP and the Department provided to disabled people who want to work to be for Communities and Local Government is ongoing on completed. [41256] the impact on housing benefit of the proposals for affordable rent for social housing. Further details will Maria Miller: The call for evidence closes on 28 be made available in due course, so no estimate has been February and we expect the Sayce Review to be published made of the number of households which will be subject in the summer 2011. to the cap on benefit entitlements where social rents are set at 80% of market rate. Remploy: Manpower Mr Gordon Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many and what proportion of Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of the working age population of each constituency in the the reasons for the change in the number of managers UK were in receipt of (a) jobseeker’s allowance, (b) in Remploy since 2008. [41587] unemployment allowance, (c) carer’s allowance, (d) disability living allowance, (e) widow’s or bereavement Maria Miller: It is a matter for Remploy to decide on benefit and (f) other income support in December the appropriate level (and grade) of staffing for the 2010. [41056] company. The increase in managers in the Employment Services Chris Grayling: A table of the numbers and proportions is due to expansion that has seen the number of disabled of the working age population of each constituency in people supported into work increase from 6,500 in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance at December 2010 has 2007-08 to 10,600 in 2009-2010. been placed in the Library. The change in the number of managers in the Enterprise Business is as a result of the introduction of the Information for the other benefits requested at December modernisation plan and restructuring of the business. 2010 is not available. Benefit statistics are normally published five and a half months in arrears. Remploy: Trade Unions In some circumstances, claims for benefit can be backdated or there can be a lag between a claim being made and all of the necessary evidence being provided Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for to assess if it is successful. In order to capture the vast Work and Pensions if he will take steps to ensure that majority of such claims, DWP wait for four months the management of Remploy consult and negotiate on after the extract date before beginning the publication their plans for the future of the organisation with the process. This provides an acceptable trade-off between recognised trade unions in line with the national quality and timeliness. The level of retrospection is agreement. [41642] different for housing benefit, council tax benefit and the employment programmes, and for the monthly jobseeker’s Maria Miller: Consultation on the voluntary redundancy allowance (claimant count) figures published by the scheme is a management matter for Remploy. Remploy Office for National Statistics. However, the same principle have assured my officials that it is committed to honouring is applied. The published numbers capture the vast its legal obligations for the consultation process and I majority of these retrospective entries to the computer have encouraged the company and the trade unions to systems. continue discussions to provide the best outcome for disabled people. The production of the statistical databases and tables takes about six weeks. Hence the quarterly Statistical Social Security Benefits Summary is published around five and a half months after the main reference date. Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and The schedule of planned statistical publications by Pensions how employment will be defined for the the DWP over the next 12 months is published on the purposes of determining which household will be Department’s website at: subject to the proposed total cap on benefit entitlement http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/index.php?page=schedule for workless households. [40577] Benefit statistics for August 2010 will be available on Steve Webb: We are introducing the benefit cap to 16 March 2011 and statistics for November 2010 on promote fairness between those in and out of work and 18 May 2011. to increase incentives for people to move into work or DWP have introduced a series of experimental early increase their hours of employment. In support of these estimates for claimants of “inactive” benefits. These are objectives, households which contain a member who is released just six weeks after the count date. Over the in receipt of working tax credit will be exempt from the past year, revisions to these figures have been1%or cap. We are still considering the precise criteria for an less. This methodology was developed for national totals, equivalent exemption under universal credit. and no breakdowns are available. 961W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 962W

Social Security Benefits: Hearing Impairment Table 3: Disability living allowance (DLA) cases in payment—May 2010 Number Michael Connarty: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many of those in receipt of Deafness 41,500 each welfare benefit are deaf. [40691] Notes: 1. DLA figures are from 5% sample data uprated to 100% proportions. Case load figures are rounded to the nearest hundred. Maria Miller: The information requested is not available. 2. Caution: The preferred statistics on benefits are now derived from Information on whether a claimant is deaf is not routinely 100% data sources. However, the 5% sample data still provides some recorded for all claimants. detail not yet available from the 100% data sources, in particular, more complete information on the disabling condition of DLA However, information is available on whether the claimants. DWP recommends that, where the detail is only available main medical condition for incapacity benefit, severe on the 5% sample data, or disabling condition (DLA) is required, the disablement allowance and employment and support proportions derived should be scaled up to the overall 100% total for allowance claimants is “Other Hearing Loss”, which the benefit. These figures have been scaled up to the overall total by the application of a single rating factor therefore subtotals based on includes deafness, and whether the main disabling condition uprated 5% data may differ from 100% data because of sampling for attendance allowance and disability living allowance variation in the 5% sample. claimants is deafness. 3. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10 and show the number of people in receipt of an allowance, and exclude people with entitlement The information that is available is presented in the where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in following tables. hospital. 4. A diagnosed medical condition does not mean that someone is Table 1: Incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance (IB/SDA) automatically entitled to DLA. Entitlement is dependent on an and employment and support allowance (ESA) claimants—May 2010 assessment of how much help someone needs with personal care and/or mobility because of their disability. Source: ESA IB/SDA DWP Information Directorate 100% WPLS

All 527,120 2,126,690 Social Security Benefits: Kirkcaldy

“Other Hearing Loss” 810 5,810 Mr Gordon Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Notes: Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 7 February 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. 2011, Official Report, columns 84-6W, how many and 2. For IB/SDA and ESA deafness is included under the disabling what proportion of the working age population of condition of “Other Hearing Loss”. 3. To qualify for incapacity benefit (IB), claimants have to undertake Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath constituency were in receipt a medical assessment of incapacity for work called a capability of (a) jobseeker’s allowance, (b) unemployment allowance, assessment. Under the employment and support allowance regime, (c) carer’s allowance, (d) disability living allowance, new claimants have to undergo the work capability assessment. From (e) widow’s or bereavement benefit and (f) other income April 2011 incapacity benefit recipients will begin also to undertake support in December 2010. [41055] this assessment. The medical condition recorded on the claim form does not itself confer entitlement to incapacity benefit or employment and support allowance. So, for example, a decision on entitlement for a customer claiming incapacity benefit on the basis of “other hearing Chris Grayling: In December 2010, 3,303 residents of loss” would be based on their ability to carry out the range of Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath constituency (5.4% of the activities related to physical and mental function, assessed by the working age population) were in receipt of jobseeker’s personal/work capability assessment. allowance1. 4. Incapacity benefit was replaced by employment and support allowance (ESA) from October 2008. Information for the other benefits requested at December Source: 2010 is not available. Benefit statistics are normally DWP Information Directorate 100% WPLS published five and a half months in arrears. Table 2: Attendance allowance (AA) cases in payment—May 2010 In some circumstances, claims for benefit can be Number backdated or there can be a lag between a claim being made and all of the necessary evidence being provided All 1,614,270 to assess if it is successful. In order to capture the vast Deafness 8,140 majority of such claims, DWP wait for four months Notes: after the extract date before beginning the publication 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10 and show the number of process. This provides an acceptable trade-off between people in receipt of an allowance, and exclude people with entitlement quality and timeliness. The level of retrospection is where the payment has been suspended, for example if they are in different for housing benefit, council tax benefit and the hospital. 2. A diagnosed medical condition does not mean that someone is employment programmes, and for the monthly jobseeker’s automatically entitled to AA. Entitlement is dependent on an assessment allowance (claimant count) figures published by the of how much help someone needs with personal care and/or mobility Office for National Statistics. However, the same principle because of their disability. is applied. The published numbers capture the vast Source: majority of these retrospective entries to the computer DWP Information Directorate 100% WPLS systems. Table 3: Disability living allowance (DLA) cases in payment—May 2010 The production of the statistical databases and tables takes about six weeks. Hence the quarterly Statistical Number Summary is published around five and a half months All 3,157,300 after the main reference date. 963W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 964W

The schedule of planned statistical publications by be affected by the revised timetable for increasing state the DWP over the next 12 months is published on the pension age to (a) 65 by 2018 and (b) 66 by 2020. Department’s website at: [41189] http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/index.php?page=schedule Benefit statistics for August 2010 will be available on Steve Webb: The information requested is not available. 16 March 2011 and statistics for November 2010 on Such information as is available is in the Labour 18 May 2011. Force Survey of the fourth quarter of 2010 which DWP have introduced a series of experimental early indicates that nearly three-quarters of the women affected estimates for claimants of “inactive” benefits. These are by the change in the state pension age timetable are released just six weeks after the count date. Over the currently in employment. It also indicates that 7% of past year, revisions to these figures have been 1% or less. women are not seeking employment due to looking This methodology was developed for national totals, after family or home, which will include those with and no breakdowns are available. caring responsibilities. 1 Source: Unemployment and Early Retirement: Females Count of unemployment-related benefits, Jobcentre Plus computer systems (including clerically held cases) Dame Anne Begg: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate his Department has made of the number of women who will (a) become unemployed and (b) take early retirement before State Retirement Pensions: Females reaching the state pension age in each year from 2015 to 2020. [41122] Dame Anne Begg: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate his Department has Steve Webb: The information requested is not available. made of the number of women who are carers who will Such information as is available is in the table.

Current female labour market status Percentage 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59

Employed 77.7 76.2 76.2 73.3 73.3 74.6 66.8 64.6 66.0 57.0 Unemployed 2.9 2.7 3.0 3.6 2.3 2.1 2.6 3.2 1.9 2.7

Inactive Sick or disabled 9.4 10.9 9.5 12.2 11.6 10.5 12.9 12.4 12.6 16.9 Family or home 6.9 6.7 5.4 7.3 6.8 6.0 8.0 9.2 6.4 6.0 Retired 0.0 0.9 1.1 0.7 2.1 2.3 4.7 6.4 7.7 11.6 Other 3.1 2.7 4.9 2.8 3.9 4.5 4.9 4.1 5.4 5.8 Total inactive 19.4 21.1 20.8 23.0 24.4 23.2 30.7 32.1 32.0 40.3 Notes: 1. Date taken from Quarter 4 2010 Labour Force Survey. 2. The figures in this table are based on a small sample and so should be treated with caution when considering small differences between years or groups.

Work Capability Assessment held centrally on the result of the WCA and we excluded assessments where the result was unknown. From July 2010, information on the JCP DM’s decision became Natascha Engel: To ask the Secretary of State for available. As this variable reflects the final decision Work and Pensions for what reason the additional rather than the Atos recommendation the publication 6,800 work capability assessment claims started between was amended to use this variable. One effect of this October 2008 and May 2009 are included in the figures change was to increase the number of known results published in October 2010 but were not included in the which was reflected in the figures. figures published in January 2010. [41132] The change was fully explained in the July 2010 publication. The relevant section is reproduced here: Chris Grayling: Employment and support allowance (ESA) was introduced in October 2008. A key factor in Annex B: Technical Note determining eligibility for ESA is the work capability Changes to calculation methodology since April 2010 assessment (WCA). The WCA is carried out by health publication care professionals employed by Atos Healthcare. A In this publication assessment outcomes are based on the report of the WCA is then sent to Jobcentre Plus. DWP decision, rather than the ATOS recommendation, as used Jobcentre Plus Decision Makers (JCP DMs) have to in previous publications. The DWP decision is made by the consider all the available information before making a Decision Maker in Jobcentre Plus, taking into account the decision on benefit entitlement. recommendation provided by the ATOS healthcare professional and the evidence provided by the applicant. Data on the final Figures on the assessment result for the first three DWP decision has only recently become available centrally. The WCA publications in October 2009, January 2010 and change has been made to provide more accurate figures on the April 2010, were based on the Atos recommendation. WCA, as it is the Decision Maker’s decision that determines At that time this was the only information the Department whether ESA will be awarded. Using this variable also means we 965W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 966W can include more complete information on people clerically assessed (2) what assessment his Department has made of the by ATOS as the result of assessment is recorded by the Decision effects of implementing the European Aviation Safety Maker. Agency’s Notice of Proposed Amendment to flight By comparing the results calculated using the DWP decision time limitations. [39685] variable—described above, with those calculated using the ATOS recommendation variable—as used in previous publications, we Mrs Villiers: The European Aviation Safety Agency see the following small changes in the headline WCA outcomes: published draft legislation for consultation on 20 December Support Group figure changes from 5% to 6% 2010. The consultation closes on 20 March. The Civil Work Related Activity Group figure changes from 13% to 14% Aviation Authority is currently reviewing the proposals. Fit for Work figure changes from 40% to 39% It will respond to the consultation once it has completed Claim closed before assessment complete—no change its review. Our aim is to ensure that the final requirements Assessment still in progress—no change. maintain a high level of safety for UK airlines. The full list of WCA publications can be found at: Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/esa_wca/ what factors he will use in determining whether changes index.php?page=esa_wca_arc to pilots’ flight time limitations being proposed by the European Aviation Safety Agency provide an appropriate level of safety. [40852] TRANSPORT Aviation: Working Hours Mrs Villiers: The objective of flight time limitations is to ensure that crew members are adequately rested at Sir Peter Bottomley: To ask the Secretary of State for the beginning of each flying duty period so that they Transport with reference to the European Aviation Safety can perform at a satisfactory level of efficiency and Agency’s publication OPS 1, Subpart Q, on flight time safety in all normal and abnormal circumstances arising limitations for air pilots, (1) what recommendations of during flying. the Moebus study were (a) included and (b) not included The Civil Aviation Authority will review the European in Subpart Q; [38896] Aviation Safety Agency’s proposals to determine whether (2) what definitions are employed of (a) the seasonal they meet that objective. period and (b) designated reporting point. [38898] Mrs Villiers: The current flight time limitation Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport requirements in OPS 1 (Annex III to Council Regulation what assessment he has made of the effects on safety of 3922/91) will be replaced by European Aviation Safety the European Aviation Safety Agency’s Notice of Proposed Agency implementing rules in 2012. EASA has issued a Amendment for flight time limitations. [40857] Notice of Proposed Amendment (NPA) consulting on their proposed implementing rules. The NPA contains Mike Weatherley: To ask the Secretary of State for details of how the Moebus report was taken into account Transport (1) what assessment he has made of the in the production of the draft guidelines. The NPA also potential effect on airline safety of the European Aviation contains the definitions used. The NPA can be downloaded Safety Agency’s notice of proposed amendment for from the EASA website at: flight time limitations; [40965] http://easa.europa.eu/rulemaking/notices-of-proposed- (2) what assessment he has made of the European amendment-NPA.php Aviation Safety Agency’s proposals on changes to The Civil Aviation Authority is currently reviewing flight time limitations for pilots. [41006] the proposals and we will seek to ensure that the final requirements maintain a high level of safety for UK airlines. Mrs Villiers: I refer the hon. Members to my answer of 7 February 2011, Official Report, column 51W, given Henry Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport to the hon. Member for Coventry South (Mr Cunningham). what research his Department has (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on pilot fatigue in the last 10 years. Bus Services: Finance [39681] Mrs Villiers: In the last 10 years the Civil Aviation Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Authority has commissioned and evaluated: Transport whether he has undertaken an equality impact A study to investigate the fatigue implications of 12 hour shift assessment on the effect on bus services to changes to patterns operated by police helicopter crews; (a) Bus Service Operator Grant, (b) concessionary A study into in-flight napping strategies; and fares and (c) funding settlements for local authorities. Continuing studies into sleep patterns which have lead to [39165] revisions of CAP 371, “The Avoidance of Fatigue in Aircrews” and the development of the System for Aircrew Fatigue Evaluation Norman Baker: The Department for Transport has (SAFE) computer model. SAFE is used by the CAA to evaluate published its equality impact assessments for changes Flight Time Limitation scheme submissions by operators. to the Bus Service Operators Grant and the local authority In addition, the CAA reviews research reports published finance simplification on its website at: by other organisations. http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/eqias/ Henry Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport The Department for Transport undertook an equality (1) what assessment he has made of the effects on safety impact assessment screening for the changes to the of replacing the Civil Aviation Authority’s current CAP concessionary travel reimbursement arrangements. Since 371 flight time limitations with the European Aviation this indicated no inequalities impact from the changes, Safety Agency’s proposals for such limitations; [39684] a full equality impact assessment was not required. 967W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 968W

Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Highways Agency Transport what discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government on John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for the effects of reductions in public expenditure on the Transport if he will take steps to ensure that all major level of bus services available. [39287] schemes being undertaken by the Highways Agency are the subject of an up-to-date business case. [39364] Norman Baker: The Secretary of State has regular discussions with the Secretary of State for Communities Mike Penning [holding answer 9 February 2011]: and Local Government on matters of common interest. Appraisal is an ongoing process, and decisions in the 2010 spending review used the most up-to-date information available. An explanation of the analytical methods Departmental NDPBs used at the spending review can be found on the Department’s website, with further supporting information John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for on the Highways Agency website. Transport what targets have been set for the work of http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/network/strategic/ the Highways Agency. [39337] highwaystransportschemesdata www.highways.gov.uk Mike Penning: The Highways Agency’s business plan for the 2010-11 financial year was published on 25 March HM Coastguard: Costs 2010. Copies were placed in the Libraries of both Houses at the time of publication, and can also be Tony Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for found on the agency’s website at Transport what the cost to the public purse is of (a) http://www.highways.gov.uk/aboutus/26993.aspx each regional director in HM Coastguard posts and The Highways Agency’s business plan for 2011-12 (b) the support teams for each such director. [40155] will contain measures that will allow the public to judge how well the Highways Agency is managing the strategic Mike Penning: The current direct costs of employment road network, but will not set targets as this Government for the three Maritime and Coastguard Agency regional have ended the reliance on top-down performance directors and the cost of the support provided to them, management to determine the effectiveness of public is £253,344. services. These three regional directors and their support teams discharge a wide range of duties and responsibilities. Among other things these duties include responsibility Galileo System: Finance for HM Coastguard operational delivery. The proportion of HM Coastguard related activities will vary depending on the number of issues that arise and require their Graham Stringer: To ask the Secretary of State for personal attention. For practical purposes we would Transport what his most recent estimate is of the cost estimate this to lie somewhere in the range of 10% to the UK of the EU Galileo project. [38357] to 20%. The cost of this coastguard-related work is estimated Mrs Villiers [holding answer 8 February 2011]: In at between £39,000 per annum and £62,000 per annum. 2007, member states and the Commission agreed a budget of ¤3.4 billion of EU funds to complete the programme. As a rough indication the UK’s pre-abatement Lorries: Sleep Apnoea contribution to the 2010 EU budget is currently estimated at 14%. Meg Munn: To ask the Secretary of State for Galileo’s development stage took place before 2007 Transport if he will estimate the proportion of drivers and was funded by Member state contributions to the of large goods vehicles of each age group who suffer European Space Agency (ESA). The UK’s contribution from obstructive sleep apnoea. [41968] was ¤240.3 million. Mike Penning: The information requested is not held. The Commission has recently published a mid-term review of the Galileo programme. The review states that the Commission can not complete the system within the Railways: Construction ¤3.4 billion budget. The Commission now estimates that if the system were to be completed, an additional Steve Baker: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport ¤1.9 billion would have to be made available for this what steps he plans to take to ensure that residents in purpose in the next financial perspective. areas north of Birmingham potentially affected by high The mid-term review is not a formal legal proposal speed rail have the opportunity to participate in his for this funding. Department’s consultation on the principle of high-speed rail. [41586] The UK believes that rather than increasing the budget, the Commission should look at ways of reducing Mr Philip Hammond: As set out in the Department the scope of the programme to a level that can be for Transport’s Business Plan, the Government propose achieved within the current budget. to consult on its strategy for high speed rail and on its We are urging the Commission to do this since we proposed route for an initial line from London to the believe a system with reduced scope could still provide West Midlands between February and July 2011. All useful benefits to a wide range of users in the UK. residents of the UK will have the opportunity to offer 969W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 970W their views on the proposals either online, or by requesting (2) what steps his Department is taking to ensure paper or electronic versions of the documents via the replenishment of road salt stocks; what steps he plans consultation website or by telephone. to take to ensure the adequacy of stocks to meet a Paper versions of all the consultation documents will future severe winter; and if he will make a statement. also be available at central libraries or at local council [33119] offices along the proposed London to West Midlands route. Norman Baker: In aggregate, highways authorities started the winter period with significantly higher salt Railways: Franchising stocks than last year. The recommendations of the winter resilience review related to the level of local Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for authority pre-winter stocks; there is no recommended Transport whether he will have powers to prevent train “running minimum”levels in-winter. It is the responsibility operating companies changing local rail services under of each Highway Authority to make appropriate new franchises. [35950] arrangements to ensure its winter resilience levels. The Government arranged for the Highways Agency to Mrs Villiers: Rail franchise agreements will require import 250,000 tonnes of salt as a strategic national operators to provide the contracted level of service. reserve in accordance with the recommendations of the These will be rigorously enforced. Operators will be able winter resilience review, to be available through the to make changes to the timing of train services and 2010-11 winter season. may—on a case by case basis—be given greater freedom Due to the unusually early onset of prolonged severe than now to change frequencies or other elements of winter weather inevitably led to salt stocks being utilised the service. at a faster rate in November and December than normal. The Department for Transport has been regularly Railways: Industrial Disputes monitoring stocks held by local authorities and has taken necessary action including releasing some of the John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for national strategic stockpile to English local authorities Transport pursuant to the answer of 31 January 2011, with low resilience, making arrangements for the import Official Report, column 539W, on railways: industrial of a further volume of salt of around 273,500 tonnes as disputes, and with reference to the answer to the hon. a precautionary measure and, following an urgent audit Member for Islington North of 15 May 2003, Official by David Quarmby, providing new guidance to highway Report, column 340W, on rail strikes, when it became authorities on salt spread rates. his Department’s policy to withhold information on These steps taken have ensured that the country is in payments made to individual train operating companies; a better and more resilient position than we were during how much was paid in compensation to train operating last winter. At the end of January 2011 and taking companies in each year since 2005-06; and when the last results from the most recent complete survey, total salt such payment was made. [39530] stocks held in Great Britain, including strategic stockpiles was 971,494 tonnes this is compared to around 270,493 Mrs Villiers [holding answer 14 February 2011]: There tonnes held on 1 February 2010. is no general policy to withhold information on payments However, we are not complacent and it is important made to individual train operating companies (TOCs), that local highway authorities take action to implement but the Department for Transport has always exercised the recommendations of David Quarmby’s report in its right to withhold, on a case-by-case basis, information October 2010 and the more recent audit in December on any payment it considers commercially sensitive. 2010 to ensure that they are better prepared for future Since 2005-06, compensation payments have only winters. The Department for Transport will continue to been made in one year (2006) and that was the last maintain a strategic stockpile where conditions warrant payment made to date. it, as recommended by the report, for future winters. Roads: Accidents Rolling Stock: Procurement

Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how many wheelchair users were (a) killed Transport how the planned additional train carriages and (b) injured in accidents when travelling in a taxi or to increase capacity on the rail network will be minibus in the last 12 months for which figures are distributed among franchised operators. [38993] available. [41491] Mrs Villiers: A total of 647 additional carriages have Norman Baker: I regret that the information collected been contracted with franchised train operators, the on death and injuries to the occupants of taxis and distribution of which is shown in the following table: minibuses does not contain any information on the disability status of casualties. TOC Number One (NXEA) 188 Roads: Snow and Ice First Capital Connect 153 East Midlands Trains 8 Nick Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for London Midland 28 Transport (1) what estimate his Department has made Intercity West Coast 106 of the proportion of local authorities which have levels Chiltern 8 of salt in store at or below the recommended First Great Western 30 minimum; [33118] 971W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 972W

The costs incurred for the procurement of strategic TOC Number salt are in line with costs incurred for salt imports over South Central 60 the last two winters and are therefore considered in line South Eastern 48 with open market rates. Northern 18 Snow and Ice England—Total 647

The Department for Transport has re-started discussions Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for with four train operating companies (First Great Western, Transport (1) what preparation for winter weather his London Midland, South West Trains and Northern) Department made prior to the severe weather of about plans to provide additional carriages. The companies December 2010; [36510] are currently developing updated proposals for (2) what recent discussions he has had with the Met consideration by the Department, and until these have Office on predicted weather conditions for next winter; been evaluated and been subject to commercial negotiations, and what steps his Department is taking to deal with it is not possible to be certain as to which rolling stock predicted weather conditions. [36511] will eventually be used by each operator. We expect to make announcements on this matter later this year. Norman Baker [holding answer 27 January 2011]: I Additionally, the Secretary of State confirmed on 25 refer my hon. Friend to the statements made by the November 2010 that the Thameslink project will go Secretary of State for Transport, my right hon. Friend ahead in full and that a new fleet of around 1,200 the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr additional carriages will be introduced on services across Hammond), which highlight the actions taken to ensure London by 2018. A further 650 carriages will also be that going into the winter the UK was in a much more provided for Crossrail services by 2019. resilient position than in recent years: Response to the review of the resilience of England’s transport systems in winter, written statement 22 October 2010, Official Salt Report, column 78WS; Response to urgent question on winter weather, 2 December Mr George Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State 2010, Official Report, column 965; for Transport what the cost was of procurement of the Severe winter weather, oral statement, 20 December 2010, strategic stockpile of rock salt; what the volume of rock Official Report, column 1216; and salt so procured was; what costs have been incurred in Winter resilience review, written statement, 21 December 2010, storing that stockpile; which companies were (a) shortlisted Official Report, column 169WS. and (b) chosen to supply the strategic stockpile of rock The Department for Transport maintains close liaison salt; and what estimate he has made of the difference with the Met Office to pay particular attention to between the costs of that procurement and the costs of possible impacts of a range of seasonal weather conditions procurement on the open market. [35515] on transport networks. During the period of extreme cold weather in December 2010, a Met Office forecaster Norman Baker: As a result of the recommendation was embedded in the Department for Transport to for establishing a national strategic stockpile, made by provide dedicated briefings to Ministers and officials, the independent winter resilience review, the Secretary including attending meetings of the Winter Network of State for Transport agreed that 250,000 tonnes of Group which was set up to monitor salt stock around rock salt be procured by the Highways Agency in addition the country. to the 60,000 tonnes the agency was planning to use as In addition we are currently considering advice received further reserve stock. Following the severe winter conditions from Professor Sir John Beddington on the longer-term in November 2010, the Secretary of State agreed that implications of the changing climate in relation to the agency to procure an additional 273,500 of strategic winter resilience. salt stock. Southeastern The majority of the salt for the strategic stock pile is currently being held at port locations around England. Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for The cost of procuring the salt which includes storage Transport (1) what representations he has received on arrangements is estimated to cost in the region of the future of the Integrated Kent Franchise; [38286] £31 million. The cost of storage beyond the end of the (2) what criteria his Department will use to assess winter season is currently being reviewed. Southeastern’s performance in relation to any The Highways Agency which was tasked with facilitating proposed extension of its franchise to 2014. [38290] the establishment of the strategic salt stock pile, has worked with its service providers utilising existing contracts Mrs Villiers: The franchise contract agreed with to import the salt. Consequently no shortlisting exercise Southeastern by the previous administration includes a was required. Highways Agency contractors had placed continuation review. The terms of the franchise provide orders with the following salt supply companies: that if the targets contained in the contract are met by Salinity UK; Southeastern, the Department for Transport is obliged to offer the train operator a two-year extension of its Cleveland Potash; franchise to cover the period 1 April 2012 to 31 March 2014. Salt Union; The franchise continuation criteria for the Southeastern Nationwide Gritting Services; franchise is specified under Schedule 18 of the National Rail Peacocks; Franchise Terms, which can be found at the following link: NW Trading; and http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/publicregister/ Azelis Broste. current/lser/lsernational.pdf 973W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 974W

The Secretary of State and I have received representations Mr Willetts: This Government are committed to regarding the continuation criteria for the Southeastern social mobility. That is why our higher education reforms franchise and the future specification for the next franchise. have no payments up-front, more generous maintenance When Southeastern’s contract is due for renewal, support and the extension of loans to part-time students. departmental officials will be seeking the views of Last week we outlined details of our £150 million stakeholders across Kent and South East London in a National Scholarship Programme and gave updated consultation which will form part of the franchise guidance to the Director of Fair Access about access replacement process. agreements.

Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how much he estimates Southeastern will Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to receive from the public purse in each year of the paragraph 4.4 of the Guidance to the Director of Fair current franchise agreement; and if he will estimate Access, whether he has plans to publish the names of how much it will receive from the public purse in each individual (a) universities and (b) courses which are to year of any extended franchise. [38289] be referred to in access agreements as offering the greatest financial benefit to students. [41148] Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport published the payment profile for the Integrated Kent franchise at Mr Willetts: The Government have no plans to compile the time of awarding the franchise towards the end of such a list. Information for each university on previous 2005. This profile can be found via the following link: graduate salaries, together with employment destinations, http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http:// is one of the items included in the proposed Key www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/franchises/ Information Set (KIS), which will provide a standard franchisepaymentprofiles set of 17 items of information for each course, to be The Department does not publish further estimates made available on university websites. The KIS is based of franchise payments after commencement of franchises. on what students have said they find useful. However, the Office of Rail Regulation publishes actual subsidy payments and information on passenger journeys Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, in its National Rail Trends document. This information Innovation and Skills with reference to paragraph 4.4 for 2009-10 can be found on page 64 of the document of the guidance to the Director of Fair Access, which on the Office of Rail Regulation website at: courses offer the greatest financial benefit to students. http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/nrt-yearbook-2009- [41317] 10.pdf In addition a copy of Rail Trends is available in the Mr Willetts [holding answer 16 February 2011]: Libraries of the House. Information on the financial benefits of different courses at broad subject group level is available from the Office Tolls: Lorries for National Statistics’ Labour Force Survey (LFS). Similar information can be obtained for graduate starting salaries from the Higher Education Statistics Agency’s David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for annual Destinations of Leavers from HE (DLHE) survey1. Transport what (a) costs and (b) benefits of his proposed road pricing scheme for hauliers he has identified; and Information for each university on previous graduate what estimate he has made of likely annual (i) revenue salaries, together with employment destinations, is one from (A) foreign and (B) UK based hauliers, (ii) of the items included in the proposed Key Information implementation costs and (iii) funds available for a Set (KIS), which will provide a standard set of 17 items rebate to UK based hauliers. [40427] of information for each course, to be made available on university websites. Mike Penning: The Government are committed to 1 Available at bringing in an HGV road user charge to ensure a fairer http://www.hesa.ac.uk/index.php?option=com_content arrangement for UK hauliers and end the widespread &task=view&id=1899&Itemid=239 anomaly whereby UK hauliers pay to use roads abroad, while foreign hauliers do not pay to use UK roads. Royal Mail We are working to develop a practical and cost-effective scheme that is broadly revenue neutral for UK hauliers. 25. Mark Lazarowicz: To ask the Secretary of State Further details will be announced in due course. for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions he has had with Royal Mail on the future of the inter-business agreement with the Post Office. [41366] BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS Mr Davey: I and my officials have had further discussions Higher Education with Royal Mail and Post Office Limited regarding the work which will need to be done to separate the two 22. Amber Rudd: To ask the Secretary of State for businesses. Business, Innovation and Skills what his policy is on The Inter Business Agreement is a commercial contract widening access to higher education for students from to be agreed between the two businesses and the Royal disadvantaged backgrounds; and if he will make a Mail chairman has committed to agree the longest term statement. [41363] legally permissible for that contract. 975W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 976W

Neither myself nor my officials have, or will be involved Apprenticeships are funded by both the Department in the detailed negotiation of the agreement. for Business Innovation and Skills (19+) and the Department for Education (16-18). The Government Apprenticeships are strongly committed to investment in apprenticeships for people of all ages. Funding for apprenticeships will Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, increase to over £1,400 million in the 2011-12 financial Innovation and Skills how many apprenticeship starts year: £799 million for 16 to 18-year-olds; £605 million there have been in the academic year 2010-11 to date. for those aged 19 and over.1 [41356] For 16 to 18-year-olds, the YPLA document “16 to 19 Funding Statement” (December 2010) states that Mr Hayes: It seems that apprenticeships are a popular funding will be sufficient to have 133,500 apprentice subject today. And no wonder, as last week was National starts in the 2011/12 academic year. For adults (19 years Apprenticeship Week, which saw over 450 events being and over), our indicative forecast is for 227,100 starts in held across the country, showcasing the benefits of 2011/122. This means we are committed to have funding apprenticeships and the value apprentices bring to in place to train over 360,000 apprentices (at all ages) in organisations and individuals. the 2011/12 academic year. Provisional data show that there were 119,800 Funding for adult apprenticeships (19+) is not further apprenticeship starts in the first quarter of the 2010/11 differentiated by age and there are no specific allocations academic year (August 2010 to October 2010). for the 18-24 age group. However, we will not have final data for the 2010/11 1 16-18 figures: 16-19 Funding Statement, YPLA (December academic year until November 2011 and provisional 2010); 19+ figures: Investing in Skills for Sustainable Growth, participation data cannot be compared against final BIS (November 2010) data from earlier academic years. 2 Hansard Groceries Supply Code www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/ cm110125/text/110125w0004.htm Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what progress has been Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State made on establishing a body to monitor and enforce for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps is he the groceries supply code of practice; and if he will taking to create more apprenticeship places for those make a statement. [41428] aged (a) 16 to 18 and (b) 18 to 24 years in the 2011-12 academic year. [41087] Mr Davey: The Groceries Code Adjudicator Bill is currently being drafted. The aim is to publish the draft Bill around Easter, allowing time for pre-legislative Mr Hayes: We are committed to increasing the number scrutiny.The Bill will be introduced as soon as parliamentary and range of apprenticeships on offer for people of all time allows. ages. We are determined to take real action to improve and expand the apprenticeships programme and create Small Businesses more apprenticeship opportunities than ever before. That is why we have increased our investment to over £1,400 million in the 2011/12 financial year: £799 million Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, for 16 to 18-year-olds; £605 million for those aged Innovation and Skills what recent representations he 19 and over.1 has received on support for small businesses. [41446] For 16 to 18-year-olds, the YPLA document “16 to Mr Prisk: The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation 19 Funding Statement” (December 2010) states that and Skills meets regularly with national business funding will be sufficient to have 133,500 apprentice representative bodies—such as the British Chambers of starts in the 2011/12 academic year. For adults (19 years Commerce, the Institute of Directors, and the and over), our indicative forecast is for 227,100 starts in Confederation of British Industry—and with other 2011/122. This means we are committed to have funding representatives of business where a wide range of matters in place to train over 360,000 apprentices (at all ages) in are discussed. the 2011/12 academic year. This investment in our future will help train the next generation, as well as developing Apprentices the existing workforce, which is vital to build a modern advanced economy. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State The National Apprenticeships Service (NAS) and the for Business, Innovation and Skills how many new Skills Funding Agency (SFA) are working with training apprenticeship places for those aged (a) 18 to 24 and providers and encouraging employers to make these (b) 16 to 18 years he plans to create in the 2011-12 places available. Last week was Apprenticeship Week in academic year. [41085] England, which saw over 500 events taking place across the country to celebrate apprenticeships and promote Mr Hayes: I refer the hon. Member to my answer of the benefits of apprenticeships to both employers and 10 February 2011, Official Report, column 385W, to his learners. NAS is also running a marketing campaign, question asking how many apprenticeship places for focussed on medium and large employers, contacting people aged (a) 16 to 18 years and (b) 18 to 24 years thousands of large private and public sector employers funding has been allocated for in the academic year to promote the benefits of apprenticeships to their 2011-12. business. 977W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 978W

We are also working to make it easier for businesses Kazakhstan to take on apprentices and access the benefits they Republic of Korea bring. We are working to reduce bureaucracy and making Kuwait the system simpler for employers, colleges, and learners Latvia alike and we are considering how we might better Lebanon support employers to access the benefits of the programme. Libya 1 16-18 figures: 16-19 Funding Statement, YPLA (December 2010); 19+ figures: Investing in Skills for Sustainable Growth, Lithuania BIS (November 2010). Luxembourg 2 Hansard: Macedonia www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201011/cmhansrd/ Malaysia cm110125/text/110125w0004.htm Mexico Morocco Arms Trade Netherlands New Zealand Duncan Hames: To ask the Secretary of State for Nigeria Business, Innovation and Skills to which countries the exports of defence equipment has been supported by Norway the UK Trade and Investment Defence and Security Oman Organisation in the last three years. [38052] Pakistan Peru Mr Prisk: In the last three years, UK Trade and Poland Investment Defence and Security Organisation has provided Portugal a range of support on behalf of UK defence and Qatar security companies marketing defence and security goods and services in relation to the following overseas markets: Romania Kingdom of Saudi Arabia Algeria Serbia Angola Singapore Argentina South Africa Austria Spain Australia Switzerland Bahrain Sweden Bangladesh Taiwan Bolivia Thailand Brazil Trinidad and Tobago Belgium Turkey Botswana Ukraine Brunei United Arab Emirates Bulgaria United States of America Canada Venezeula Chile Vietnam. China and Special Administrative Region Hong Kong Colombia Business Investment Scheme Croatia Czech Republic Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State Denmark for Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he Democratic Republic of Congo has made of the effect on support for private sector jobs in (a) Easington constituency and (b) the North Estonia East of the end of the Grants for Business Investment Egypt scheme. [41468] Finland France Mr Prisk: We announced a new approach to local Georgia growth in the Local Growth White Paper (Cm 7961) Germany presented to Parliament on 28 October 2010. This will Greece (a) shift power to local businesses and communities; India (b) create the right conditions for growth and prosperity by promoting efficient and dynamic markets and Indonesia (c) support focused investment that will have a long-term Iraq impact on growth. Ireland This fundamental re-thinking of local growth includes Italy the regional growth fund (RGF). While the RGF has Jamaica different objectives and criteria to the grant for business Japan investment (GBI) scheme (which is now considering Jordan applications on an exceptional basis only), it is much 979W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 980W larger—it has £1.4 billion over three years at its disposal A network of at least 40,000 experienced business mentors compared to total GBI expenditure of £54 million in offering practical advice to existing businesses and people who 2009/10—and is focused to support those areas and want to start a business; communities that are currently dependent on the public International trade development support provided by UKTI; sector make the transition to sustainable private sector-led The Manufacturing Advisory Service; and growth. Business Coaching for Growth targeted at agglomerations of Sound projects and programmes that create sustainable businesses with high growth potential. private sector jobs in Easington and the North East can Local Economic Partnerships (LEPs), including those apply to the RGF. covering rural areas, may also seek to provide additional Overall, the changes we have introduced will improve support to their local businesses. support for private sector job creation in those areas. Climate Change Projects Office: Greater London Business: Energy Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for made of the number of businesses in (a) the London Business, Innovation and Skills whether the Office of Borough of Bexley and (b) Greater London who have Fair Trading (OFT) records the number of energy received advice and support from the Climate Change contracts mis-sold to small and medium-sized Projects Office in each year since its inception. [40949] enterprises by third party intermediaries; and how many complaints the OFT has received from small and Mr Prisk: The Department does not keep statistics to medium-sized enterprises on such mis-selling in the this level of detail, but during the last financial year latest period for which figures are available. [41171] (2009/10) the Climate Change Projects Office provided advice and support to more than 120 companies, some Mr Davey: The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) does of whom were based in London. not record the number of energy contracts mis-sold to small and medium sized enterprises by third party Community Interest Companies intermediaries. However, the number of allegations about such mis-selling by third party intermediaries brought Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, to the OFT’s attention and recorded by Consumer Innovation and Skills how many community interest Direct is 13 over the 12 month period 1 December 2009 companies were registered in each parliamentary to 30 November 2010. constituency in each of the last 10 years. [41237]

Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Davey: Community Interest Companies (CICS) Business, Innovation and Skills if he will direct the were established in 2005. Neither Companies House Office of Fair Trading to use the powers available to it nor the CICS Regulator’s Office holds any information under the Business Protection from Misleading Marketing on them broken down by parliamentary constituencies. Regulations 2008 in respect of action against third party energy intermediaries that mis-sell energy contracts Debts: Advisory Services to small and medium-sized enterprises. [41584] Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Davey: The OFT’s Consumer Markets Group has Business, Innovation and Skills what initiatives he has considered whether to take action on this issue under for the promotion of free and impartial debt advice. the Business Protection from Misleading Marketing [41119] Regulations 2008. Although the OFT has not taken action to date, it is interested in receiving evidence to Mr Davey: The Government are committed to helping enable it to assess whether the problem is widespread. poorer households to access appropriate financial services, Anyone with evidence should contact the OFT. to improve their financial resilience and to avoid falling into unsustainable levels of debt. Business: Rural Areas The Government announced on 12 February that a further £27 million will be made available in 2011/12 to Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for support face-to-face debt advice provided by the Citizens Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he plans to Advice Bureaux and other independent advice agencies take to provide incentives to contractors to promote across England and Wales. business support in rural areas. [40740] This Department will also continue to support the National Debtline, a telephone advice service by providing Mr Prisk: The Department does not envisage providing funding of £1 million in 2011-12. any specific incentives to contractors to promote business support in rural areas. Fair Access Businesses will be able to access: Online business information and tools tailored to each business’ Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, needs, through improvements to the: Innovation and Skills which persons and organisations www.businesslink.gov.uk responded to his Department’s consultation on the website or for those who cannot access the information they need draft guidance to the Director of Fair Access issued in on the web or who are not connected to the internet, a national December 2010; and if he will place in the Library a contact centre; copy of each of those responses. [41316] 981W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 982W

Mr Willetts [holding answer 16 February 2011]: We the Guidance to the Director of Fair Access at the level published a draft version of our guidance to the Director of individual (a) universities and (b) courses. [41152] of Fair Access on 7 December 2010, inviting comments. A number of organisations and individuals commented, Mr Willetts: We have no plans to publish the contextual formally and informally, and we took all views into data used by universities. Universities are responsible account in taking our decisions about the contents of for their own admissions policies and decisions. Whether the final guidance letter. We have no plans to publish to use such information is up to each university, as they the comments made. will be best placed to decide on the information that will help to identify the candidates with the talent and Mr Chope: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, potential to succeed at that institution or on a particular Innovation and Skills for what reasons the final course. The Government believe that the use of such guidance issued to the Director of Fair Access does not data is a valid and appropriate way for institutions to include the contents of paragraph 6.1 in the draft broaden access while maintaining excellence, so long as guidance. [41319] individuals are considered on their merits, and institutions’ procedures are fair, transparent and evidence-based. Mr Willetts [holding answer 16 February 2011]: Paragraph 6.1 was unnecessary as it provided no new Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for information. Business, Innovation and Skills what consultation he carried out prior to issuing his Department’s Guidance Fossil Fuels to the Director of Fair Access, February 2011; which organisations participated in his consultation; and Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for whether he plans to publish the outcome of the Business, Innovation and Skills what definition of dirty consultation. [41153] fossil fuel energy production his Department uses. [40838] Mr Willetts: We published a draft version of our guidance to the Director of Fair Access on 7 December, Mr Davey: The definition used by the Department for inviting comments. A number of organisations and Business, Innovation and Skills is that “dirty” fossil fuel individuals commented, formally and informally, and power generation means unabated coal-fired power stations. we took all views into account in taking our decisions about the contents of the final guidance letter. We have Higher Education: Admissions no plans to publish the comments made.

Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions he has Business, Innovation and Skills whether he plans to had with the Secretary of State for Education on make access agreements for individual universities collaboration between schools and universities on outreach known to potential applicants to those universities. work; and what steps have been taken as a result of such [41154] discussions. [41125] Mr Willetts: All agreed access agreements are publicly Mr Willetts: These matters are regularly discussed. available on the website of the Office for Fair Access. Most recently, the Secretary of State for Business Innovation We would expect all universities to ensure that potential and Skills, the Secretary of State for Education and I applicants were made aware of the details of any access met my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey agreement that might affect them, such as possible fee and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) to discuss his role waivers. as advocate for access to education. He will work with the Government to support their goal of increasing Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for participation in further and higher education by those Business, Innovation and Skills what the low participation from the most disadvantaged backgrounds. neighbourhoods referred to in paragraph 6 of the Guidance to the Director of Fair Access, February 2011 are. Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for [41155] Business, Innovation and Skills whether he plans to provide information to university applicants on the Mr Willetts: One of the access indicators published performance of individual institutions against the as part of the “Performance Indicators in Higher access performance indicators identified in paragraph 6 Education” by the Higher Education Statistics Agency of the Guidance to the Director of Fair Access. [41151] (HESA) covers the proportion of students from low participation neighbourhoods (LPNs). Mr Willetts: We expect all universities to improve the The LPN indicator has been produced using POLAR2 quality of information that they provide to prospective (Participation of Local AReas). This method is based students. The access performance indicators show the on the HE participation rates of people who were aged performance of individual institutions against different 18 between 2000 and 2004 and entered a HE course in a benchmarks. They are published annually by the Higher UK higher education institution or GB further education Education Statistics Agency on its website, and we college, aged 18 or 19, between academic years 2000/01 expect that this will continue. and 2005/06. It draws on data provided by the Higher Education Statistics Agency, the Learning and Skills Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for Council, the Universities and Colleges Admissions Service, Business, Innovation and Skills whether he plans to the other UK funding bodies and HM Revenue and publish contextual data used by universities following Customs. 983W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 984W

The POLAR2 classification is formed by ranking Mr Prisk: Staff have been recruited from the Government 2001 Census Area Statistics wards by their young offices for the regions in a process agreed by Departments participation rates for the combined 2000 to 2004 cohorts. and the relevant trade unions. Officials have held discussions This gives five young participation quintile groups of with the heads of the regional development agencies areas ordered from ‘1’ (those wards with the lowest and the transfer of staff from the regional development participation) to ‘5’ (those wards with the highest agencies is expected to follow Transfer of Undertakings participation), each representing 20% of UK young (Protection of Employment) Regulations principles. cohort. Students have been allocated to the neighbourhoods on the basis of their postcode. Those students whose Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, postcode falls within wards with the lowest participation Innovation and Skills what estimate he has made of the (quintile 1) are denoted as being from a low participation number of staff who will be employed in his Department’s neighbourhood. The names of the wards and their new regional offices in 2011-12. [41264] corresponding local authority district in England and Wales classified as low participation neighbourhoods Mr Prisk: The Department is aiming to establish six will be placed in the Libraries of the House. local offices, each with approximately eight staff.

Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for Money Lenders Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has made of the amount spent by each university on Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for outreach activities in the latest period for which figures Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he plans to are available; and what estimate he has made of the take to protect the public against unscrupulous loan level of such spending in each of the next five years. sharks. [41035] [41156] Mr Davey: Since 2004 the Department for Business, Mr Willetts: Each university decides for itself how Innovation and Skills has provided funding of more much to invest in outreach activities, and will do so in than £21 million to fund specialist regional teams across future. The director of Fair Access, in his annual report1, the country to tackle the problem of those lenders who shows how much each institution is currently spending operate without a licence. on outreach under their access agreements, and this To date, the teams have helped more than 16,000 victims, information will continue to be publicly available. Neither written off £37 million of illegal debt and secured over the Department nor the director seeks to record all 180 convictions with sentences totalling 70 years. university outreach expenditure. On 29 December 2010, the Government announced 1 The last annual report “Office for Fair Access Annual Report further funding to continue the Illegal Money Lending and Accounts 2009-10” was published in June 2010. Project throughout 2011/12 to protect vulnerable individuals Local Enterprise Partnerships and families across the country against the dangers of loan sharks. Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for National Regional Development Agency Transition Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer Programme Board of 19 January 2011, Official Report, column 832W, on local enterprise partnerships, what successor bodies Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, other than local enterprise partnerships may be established Innovation and Skills if he will publish the plans submitted to take on the functions of regional development agencies; to the National Regional Development Agency Transition and if he will make a statement. [41471] Programme Board by each regional development agency on the future of the assets they hold. [41312] Mr Prisk: Plans for the future of the functions currently carried out by the regional development agencies are Mr Prisk [holding answer 16 February 2011]: The still to be finalised. Some functions will pass to central regional development agencies (RDAs) submitted detailed Government Departments and other existing public assets and liabilities plans to BIS on 31 January. These bodies; other functions will be wound down. Consideration plans are currently being scrutinised and assets will be is still being given to arrangements for managing residuary considered on a case-by-case basis. Owing to the anticipated RDA assets and liabilities. In London, the LDA will be market and commercial sensitivity of the RDA asset folded into the GLA and it will be for the Mayor to disposal plans, and the desire to achieve best value for decide how to take forward his priorities for economic the taxpayer, it is not expected that they will be made development. publicly available at the present time. However, it will be up to the RDAs themselves to decide whether and how Manpower to publish their assets and liabilities plans, taking into account the sensitivity of any of the information they Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, may contain. Innovation and Skills whether he (1) expects to transfer The general principles upon which decisions on the staff from his Whitehall offices to his Department’s new disposal of RDA assets and liabilities will be made have regional offices; and whether he expects to recruit staff already been set out in the Local Growth White Paper of regional offices locally; [41262] and repeated in a statement sent to the Libraries of the (2) plans to have discussions with the heads of regional House on 10 February 2010 and which can be found at: development agencies on the potential for transfer of http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/economic-development/ their staff to his Department’s new regional offices. englands-regional-development-agencies/assets/statement-on- [41263] rda-assets-and-liabilities 985W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 986W

New Businesses: Bexley Mr Prisk: No assessment has been made of the effects on the economy of the north east of the removal of grants previously provided by One North East. Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking Reorganising the delivery of economic development to encourage small business start-ups in Bexleyheath will ensure a more focussed approach which is not and Crayford constituency. [39933] based on regional agencies with arbitrary regional boundaries, a lack of local accountability, and multiple Mr Prisk: Business Link in London (BLIL), funded objectives. It will also not be based on unsustainable by the London Development Agency (LDA), supports levels of public spending. small business start-ups across London, including the Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency. BLIL offers Patents: EU Action solutions to meet small business needs, including: Fact sheets, such as, sector specific information, guidance on a Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for range of business matters Business, Innovation and Skills what recent progress On-line tools has been made towards the establishment of the EU Referrals to specific regulatory bodies and other support Patents Court. [40682] organisations. Under current delivery arrangements, BLIL continue Mr Davey: Formal negotiations on a draft agreement to deliver a number of free “Starting A Business”workshops for a European Patents Court are currently on hold which are held at various venues throughout London. while an opinion of the European Court of Justice on The Government have announced plans to make it the compatibility of the draft agreement with the EU easier to start and grow a business across England, are Treaty is pending. There is reason to believe that the set out in our paper “Bigger, Better Business”, on 5 opinion will be published in early March 2011. January 2011. This will include: Improving the support aimed at start-ups online through, a Regional Development Agencies dedicated start-up hub within the national Business Link website: www.businesslink.gov.uk Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Help for start-ups through a tailored package of measures, Innovation and Skills (1) who will be responsible for including an expansion in the planned new enterprise allowance, decisions arising from recommendations from the National to help the unemployed become self-employed Regional Development Agency Transition Programme A network of at least 40,000 experienced business mentors Board on the disposal of assets of regional development offering practical advice to existing businesses and people who agencies; [41546] want to start a business. (2) what plans he has to establish arrangements to I should add that the Government will be working facilitate representations from local enterprise boards alongside an extensive range of private sector and business on the disposal of Regional Development Agency support organisations to help start-ups and existing assets in that area. [41547] businesses identify and utilise all the support available, both online and offline. Mr Prisk: During the preparation of their Assets and Liabilities Plans, regional development agencies (RDAs), Older People: Scotland liaised with local authorities, local enterprise partnerships (LEPs) and other local partners. Mr Davidson: To ask the Secretary of State for Decisions on disposals and transfers, will be made on Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has a case by case basis and remain based on the principles made of the number of people in Scotland likely to be in the 1998 RDA Act, namely to further the economic affected by the end of the default retirement age; and if development and regeneration of RDA’s areas. he will make a statement. [41566] RDA chief executives, as accounting officers, with Mr Davey: In removing the default retirement age we the approval of their boards, have responsibility for the are removing a regulation that restricts people’s ability disposal of RDA assets and liabilities, and for liaising to remain in the labour market. Our impact assessment with LEPs, local partners and other interested parties. estimates that around 6,000 additional workers are likely to remain in the work force across the UK in the first Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for year. No separate estimate was made for Scotland. The Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has any full impact assessment was published on 13 January plans to include local enterprise board representatives and is available at: on the National Regional Development Agency Transition Programme Board. [41548] http://bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/employment-matters/docs/p/ 11-634-phasing-out-default-retirement-age-impact- assessment.pdf Mr Prisk: The National Regional Development Agency (RDA) Transition Programme Board is organised according One North East to Office of Government Commerce ‘Managing Successful Programmes’ guidelines to ensure effective, streamlined Mr Anderson: To ask the Secretary of State for decision-making. The board includes the Director of Business, Innovation and Skills whether he has made the Economic Development Directorate (EDD) in the an assessment of the effects on the economy of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Her North East of the removal of grants previously responsibilities include the development and delivery of provided by One North East. [41741] policy on local enterprise partnerships, working jointly 987W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 988W with the Department for Communities and Local The board is organised according to Office of Government (DCLG), who are also represented on the Government Commerce “Managing Successful National RDA Transition Programme Board. Programmes” guidelines to ensure effective, streamlined The board provides direction and challenge to the decision-making. It will provide direction and challenge RDA Boards, which are responsible for delivering an to the RDA boards, which are responsible for delivering orderly closure and transition of their respective agencies. an orderly closure and transition of their respective The RDA boards include representatives of local authorities RDAs. some of whom are also members of local enterprise partnerships. Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how the area covered Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, by the South East Economic Development Agency will Innovation and Skills what criteria the National Regional be represented on the National Regional Development Transition Programme Board will use to decide whether Agency Transition Programme Board. [41270] regional development agency assets will be transferred Mr Prisk: This response assumes that the question to local enterprise partnerships. [41575] refers to the South East England Development Agency. Mr Prisk: The transfer or disposal of assets and The network of regional development agencies (RDAs), liabilities will be undertaken in accordance with the including South East England Development Agency Regional Development Agencies Act 1998 until new (SEEDA), is represented on the National RDA Transition legislation comes into force. The approach to be adopted Programme Board by three RDA representatives selected will follow that set out in the Local Growth White by the RDA chief executives themselves. Paper [CM7961] and the statement made on 10 February, a copy of which is in the Library of the House. Regional Government Regional Development Agency Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what role his Department’s new Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, regional offices will have in advising the National Regional Innovation and Skills what liaison his Department’s Development Agency Transition Board on the disposal new regional offices will have with regional development of assets held by regional development agencies. [41315] agency offices while the latter remain in existence. [41265] Mr Prisk [holding answer 16 February 2011]: All regional development agencies have submitted transition Mr Prisk: This Department is working to achieve a plans which we are currently reviewing. smooth transition to RDA closure and the Department’s new local offices will have an important role in helping Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for to co-ordinate this process. Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for Blackpool South of 8 February 2011, Official Report, column 216W, on regional Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, government, if he will publish the responses to the Innovation and Skills on how many occasions the National consultation that he held with business organisations Regional Development Agency (RDA) Transition and local enterprise partnerships on the need for his Programme Board is scheduled to meet to consider Department to have presence outside of Whitehall. future options for the assets held by the RDAs. [41266] [41434]

Mr Prisk: The RDAs put forward their own plans for Mr Prisk: Support for the BIS local offices has been the disposal of assets and liabilities at the end of January expressed during informal discussions between the 2011. These will be reviewed by the RDA National Department, business organisations and local enterprise Transition Programme Board and agreed by the RDAs’ partnerships. own boards. The National RDA Transition Programme Board will meet four times to consider the RDA plans Regional Growth Fund for their assets and liabilities. Its consideration will be supported by detailed analysis carried out by a group with appropriate expertise which includes members from Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for BIS, DCLG and the Treasury.This will allow the systematic Business, Innovation and Skills how many pooled bids disposal of RDA assets and liabilities to begin in or he has received for funds from the Regional Growth around April 2011. Fund. [40722]

Mr Marsden: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Prisk: The deadline for round one Regional Growth Business, Innovation and Skills what consultation he Fund application closed on 21 January. More than 450 had with stakeholders prior to the creation of the applications have been received and are now being National Regional Development Agency Transition assessed by the Independent Advisory Panel chaired by my noble Friend Lord Heseltine. Programme Board. [41269] We do not have the information on the numbers of Mr Prisk: The creation of the National Regional pooled bids at the moment as the large volume of bids Development Agency (RDA) Transition Programme are being appraised. We are aiming to publish the Board was carried out in consultation with the RDA breakdown of bids shortly and details will be available network and with Government Departments responsible on the BIS website at: for funding the RDAs. www.bis.gov.uk/RGF 989W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 990W

Students In addition to this, senior Ministers are actively engaging with overseas Governments in these markets. For instance, Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for the Prime Minister has already visited India and China Business, Innovation and Skills how many student and the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and places his Department funded in 2009-10; how much Skills, the right hon. Member for Twickenham (Vince such places it plans to fund in each of the next four Cable), has visited Brazil, Russia, India and China. years; and if he will make a statement. [41606] The Trade and Investment White Paper published on 9 February 2011, says that UKTI will increase this Mr Willetts: We made available an additional 10,000 focus on high growth markets. The new UKTI strategy, places in 2010/11. The grant letter to the Higher Education due to be published later this year, will set out how we Funding Council for England (HEFCE) issued on 20 will enhance our focus on these markets while maintaining December 2010 explained that the number of entrants strong support in developed markets, whose opportunities to higher education in 2011/12 should be maintained at for UK business should not be overlooked. the levels in the previous year. Despite the overriding need to address the deficit we expect the number of places to be broadly maintained at those levels for the duration of the spending review period. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE Students: Scotland Afghanistan: Females Ann McKechin: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for of 10 January 2011, Official Report, column 155W, on Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the students: finance, what the outcome was on his recent answer to the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Anas discussions with the Scottish Government on its ability Sarwar) of 2 February 2011, Official Report, column to set its own threshold for Scottish students borrowing 816W, on Afghanistan: females, what projects his with the Student Loans Company. [40869] Department is funding in Afghanistan with the aim of Mr Willetts: I met with members of the Scottish increasing women’s empowerment; what the names are Government on 10 February 2010. We discussed a of such projects; when each began; and how much each range of issues relating to student finance. has received from his Department in the latest period for which figures are available. [40661] The Scottish Government are aware that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs (HMRC) is currently able to Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office operate only one threshold across the United Kingdom. (FCO) has worked with other Departments within the We have, however, recently reached agreement with Government to support various projects in Afghanistan HMRC that they will operate two thresholds from 6 with the aim of increasing women’s empowerment. April 2016—the existing £15,000 threshold and a new threshold of £21,000. The FCO has provided funding of £200,000 from the Conflict Prevention Pool for a “Gender and Political Trade Promotion Empowerment” project to support female Afghan parliamentary candidates and MPs during 2010-11. Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for Since February 2008, the Government have provided Business, Innovation and Skills which countries his a monthly grant of $4,660 to the Independent Commission Department has identified as potential high growth of Women’s and Children’s Rights, which works to markets for UK businesses; and what steps he is taking further the rights of women and children in Helmand. to promote the interests of UK business in these Over 2010 and 2011, the UK Government have provided countries. [40684] £5,000 to help develop womens’ networks across Mr Prisk: UK Trade and Investment (UKTI) has Afghanistan. identified and is targeting 17 key high growth markets, Between 2009 and 2011, the Government provided based on their potential for growth and other criteria $28.5 million to the United Nation’s Development such as their market match and scope for UKTI help. Programme’s “Enhancing Legal and Electoral Capacity The 17 UKTI high growth markets are: Brazil, China for Tomorrow”project, which has helped provide technical (including Hong Kong), India, Indonesia, Malaysia, support for Afghan electoral institutions, including the Mexico, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Afghan Independent Election Commission’s (IEC) gender Africa, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, Turkey, UAE unit. and Vietnam. UK police officers are providing training to 16 female Of the 23,600 UK businesses that UKTI helped in Afghan police officers in Helmand Province at their 2009/10, nearly 40% were seeking help in regards to own training facility at the Provincial headquarters. these high growth markets. UKTI is already responding to this demand for help Afghanistan: Overseas Aid by: ensuring there are targeted services and advice available for businesses considering these markets; raising Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State greater awareness amongst UK business of these markets for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate drawing on our expertise here and in our overseas he has made of his Department’s expenditure in real network; communicating to businesses the specific terms on (a) counter-narcotics and (b) rule of law opportunities in them; and campaigning for better access programmes in Afghanistan in each year from 2000-01 in these countries for UK companies. to 2011-12. [40129] 991W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 992W

Mr Hague: Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) BBC External Services: Finance funding for counter-narcotics and rule of law work in Afghanistan currently comes from two sources: Conflict Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State Pool (funded by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will place the Department for International Development and the in the Library a copy of each item of correspondence Ministry of Defence); and the Strategic Programme between his Department and the (a) BBC World Fund. Service Trust and (b) Director-General of the BBC Spend from both these sources was: relating to recent decisions on funding for the BBC Counter narcotics World Service. [40121] £ million Mr Hague: I placed copies of my correspondence 2010-11 25.6 with Sir Michael Lyons, chair of the British Broadcasting 2009-10 24.5 Corporation (BBC) Trust, in the Library of the House 2008-09 49.1 on 26 January 2011 as attachments to my written ministerial statement of the same date. Rule of Law £ million I have had no correspondence with the director-general of the BBC on this topic, although we have discussed 2010-11 19.2 the subject. 2009-10 28.l I am also placing in the House a copy of the letter of 2008-09 18.8 20 October 2010 from the Permanent Under-Secretary of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to Peter Spending on counter narcotics and rule of law Horrocks, the director of the BBC World Service, which programmes in Afghanistan has fluctuated as projects sets out the settlement for the BBC World Service’s have evolved. The UK will continue to provide support funding until it transfers to the licence fee in 2014-15. to both counter narcotics and wider rule of law activity in Afghanistan. Colombia: Human Rights Expenditure for 2004 to 2008 was part of counter terrorism and migration funding. Expenditure prior to Tony Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign 2004 was a part of the Drugs and Crime Fund. We are and Commonwealth Affairs if he will raise with his unable to disaggregate or make comparisons without Colombian counterpart the issue of the safety of (a) incurring disproportionate cost. human rights activists and (b) trade unionists during his visit to Colombia. [41640] Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate Mr Jeremy Browne: I regret that my visit to Colombia he has made of his Department’s expenditure on has been postponed due to parliamentary business. I human rights and democracy programmes in hope to reschedule it for later this year. Afghanistan in real terms in each year from 2005-06 to We welcome President Santos’ commitment to tackle 2011-12. [40206] human rights issues and the Colombian Government’s public recognition that civil society, and specifically Mr Hague: Funding for human rights and democracy human rights defenders—including trades unionists—have work in Afghanistan is currently from two sources: a vital role to play in overcoming the challenges that Conflict Pool (funded by the Foreign and Commonwealth exist. The safety of these groups remains of great concern. Office (FCO), the Department for International We regularly raise this issue with the Colombian Development and the Ministry of Defence); and the Government and shall continue to do so, including Strategic Programme Fund. This expenditure was as when I am next in Colombia. follows: Tony Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign £ and Commonwealth Affairs if he will raise with his Colombian counterpart the cases of David Ravelo 2010-11 5.5 million Crespo and Carolina Rubio during his visit to 2009-10 5.5 million Colombia. [41641] 2008-09 328,000 Mr Jeremy Browne: I regret that my visit to Colombia The increase in expenditure in 2009-10 reflects a has been postponed due to parliamentary business. I re-prioritisation of projects and the increase of provisional hope to reschedule it for later this year. When I return governance programmes in Helmand Province. Expenditure to Colombia I shall take the opportunity to raise our has included support to Afghan human rights organisations concerns about the situation of human rights defenders and democracy programmes at national and sub-national there. level, including in relation to elections. Funding plans for 2011-12 are not yet final. The FCO will continue to Officials at our embassy in Bogotá continue to visit provide support for human rights and democracy in some individuals who are under threat, and make Afghanistan as a key part of the Government’s work to representations to the Colombian authorities in cases of support and improve governance in Afghanistan. violence or intimidation against members of Colombian Expenditure for the period 2005 to 2008 was included in civil society. Global Conflict Prevention Pool funding and we are On 28 September officials from our embassy together unable to disaggregate these figures or make comparisons with representatives from the French, Dutch, Swedish without incurring disproportionate cost. and German embassies, visited the offices of the 993W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 994W

Corporación Regional para la Defensa de los Derechos Number Humanos (CREDHOS), the Barrancabermeja-based human rights organisation of which Mr Ravelo is Secretary Brazil Brasilia 150 General. They used the visit to discuss security issues Brazil Rio de Janeiro 35 and Mr Ravelo’s situation. Our ambassador in Bogota Brazil Sao Paulo 80 met the Head of the Vice President’s Human Rights British Virgin Tortola 10 and International Humanitarian Law Unit on 18 November Islands where he again raised the case. Brunei Bandar Seri 25 At this meeting on 18 November our ambassador Begawan also raised the case of Carolina Rubio. On the same day Bulgaria Sofia 45 our embassy wrote to the Attorney General’s Office Burma Rangoon 85 about her case. Ms Rubio was released from prison on Cambodia Phnom Penh 25 19 November, apparently on medical grounds. Cameroon Yaounde 45 Canada Montreal 10 Departmental Manpower Canada Ottawa 55 Canada Toronto 25 Canada Vancouver 20 Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State Canada Calgary 1— for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what estimate 1 he has made of his Department’s full-time equivalent Cayman Islands Grand Cayman — headcount in each country in (a) 2009-10, (b) 2010-11 Chile Santiago 55 and (c) 2011-12. [40127] China Beijing 190 China Chongqing 35 Mr Hague: The following table gives the approximate China Guangzhou 60 number of Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) China Shanghai 60 employees at each overseas post/office for the fourth Colombia Bogota 80 quarter of financial year 2010-11. These figures include Costa Rica San Jose 20 UK-based civil servants and staff employed locally. For Croatia Zagreb 30 operational and security reasons, we cannot provide a Cuba Havana 50 more detailed breakdown. Cyprus Nicosia 65 Czech Republic Prague 55 Number D R Congo Kinshasa 80 Denmark Copenhagen 45 Afghanistan Kabul 180 Dominica Santo Domingo 20 Afghanistan Lashkar Gah 35 Ecuador Quito 20 Albania Tirana 30 Egypt Alexandria 20 Algeria Algiers 50 Egypt Cairo 120 Angola Luanda 25 Eritrea Asmara 15 Anguilla Anguilla 1— Estonia Tallinn 30 Argentina Buenos Aires 65 Ethiopia Addis Ababa 150 Armenia Yerevan 20 Falkland Islands Stanley 1— Ascension Islands Ascension 1— Fiji Suva 20 Australia Brisbane 10 Finland Helsinki 45 Australia Canberra 55 France Bordeaux 10 Australia Melbourne 15 France Lille 15 Australia Perth 10 France Lyon 15 Australia Sydney 30 France Paris (embassy) 180 Austria Vienna (embassy) 55 France Paris (OECD) 15 Austria Vienna (OSCE) 15 France Strasbourg (CoE) 10 Austria Vienna (UN) 10 France Marseille 1— Azerbaijan Baku 45 Gambia Banjul 65 Bahrain Bahrain 45 Georgia Tbilisi 45 Bangladesh Dhaka 230 Germany Berlin 110 Bangladesh Sylhet 1— Germany Dusseldorf 60 Barbados Bridgetown 40 Germany Munich 25 Belarus Minsk 20 Ghana Accra 280 Belgium Brussels (embassy) 65 Gibraltar Gibraltar 20 Belgium Brussels (NATO) 35 Greece Athens 75 Belgium Brussels (EU) 130 Greece Corfu 1— Belize Belmopan 30 Greece Heraklion 1— Bermuda Hamilton 1— Greece Rhodes 1— Bolivia La Paz 25 Greece Zakynthos 1— Bosnia and Sarajevo 35 Herzegovina Guatemala Guatemala City 25 Bosnia and Banja Luka 1— Guinea Conakry 10 Herzegovina Guyana Georgetown 15 Botswana Gaborone 15 Hong Kong SAR Hong Kong 100 995W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 996W

Number Number

Hungary Budapest 55 Norway Oslo 40 Iceland Reykjavik 15 Oman Muscat 60 India Bangalore 20 Pakistan Islamabad 310 India Chennai 55 Pakistan Karachi 80 India Kolkata 35 Panama Panama City 20 India Mumbai 130 Papua New Guinea Port Moresby 20 India New Delhi 380 Peru Lima 45 India Hyderabad 1— Phillipines Manila 60 Indonesia Jakarta 90 Pitcairn Islands Pitcairn 1— Iran Tehran 120 Poland Warsaw 75 Iraq Baghdad 65 Portugal Lisbon 50 Iraq Erbil 10 Portugal Portimao 1— Iraq Basra 1— Qatar Doha 30 Ireland Dublin 45 Romania Bucharest 55 Israel Jerusalem 55 Russia Moscow 170 Israel Tel Aviv 65 Russia St Petersburg 25 Italy Florence 10 Russia Yekaterinburg 15 Italy Milan 35 Rwanda Kigali 30 Italy Naples 10 Saudi Arabia Al Khobar 15 Italy Rome 110 Saudi Arabia Jedda 30 Italy Venice 1— Saudi Arabia Riyadh 110 Ivory Coast Abidjan 1— Senegal Dakar 40 Jamaica Kingston 60 Serbia Belgrade 70 Japan Osaka 25 Seychelles Victoria 15 Japan Tokyo 140 Sierra Leone Freetown 200 Jordan Amman 100 Singapore Singapore 90 Kasakhstan Almaty 10 Slovakia Bratislava 25 Kasakhstan Astana 30 Slovenia Ljubljana 20 Kenya Nairobi 150 Solomon Islands Honiara 15 Kosova Pristina 40 South Africa Cape Town 40 Kuwait Kuwait 70 South Africa Johannesburg 20 Latvia Riga 30 South Africa Pretoria 160 Lebanon Beirut 75 South Korea Seoul 80 Liberia Monrovia 1— Spain Alicante 10 Libya Tripoli 80 Spain Barcelona 20 Lithuania Vilnius 35 Spain Madrid 110 Luxembourg Luxembourg 10 Spain Malaga 15 Macedonia Skopje 30 Spain Bilbao 1— Madagascar Antananarivo 1— Spain Ibiza 1— Malawi Lilongwe 35 Spain Las Palmas 1— Malaysia Kuala Lumpur 95 Spain Palma 1— Malta Valletta 25 Sri Lanka Colombo 80 Mauritius Port Louis 20 St Helena Jamestown 1— Mexico Mexico City 110 St Helena Tristan da Cunha 1— Mexico Guadalajara 1— St Lucia Castries 1— Mexico Monterrey 1— Sudan Khartoum 250 Moldova Chisinau 30 Sudan Juba 1— Mongolia Ulaanbaatar 15 Sweden Stockholm 50 Montenegro Podgorica 10 Switzerland Berne 35 Morocco Casablanca 20 Switzerland Geneva (consulate 10 Morocco Rabat 80 general) Morocco Tangier 1— Switzerland Geneva (UN) 45 Syria Damascus 35 Mozambique Maputo 30 Taiwan Taipei 50 Namibia Windhoek 25 Tajikistan Dushanbe 40 Nepal Kathmandu 110 Tanzania Dares Salaam 40 Netherlands Amsterdam 10 Thailand Bangkok 130 Netherlands The Hague 60 Trinidad and Port of Spain 30 New Zealand Auckland 10 Tobago New Zealand Wellington 60 Tunisia Tunis 55 Nigeria Abuja 220 Turkey Ankara 120 Nigeria Lagos 250 Turkey Istanbul 90 North Korea Pyongyang 10 Turkmenistan Ashgabat 10 997W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 998W

Commercial money transfer services in Egypt have resumed Number normal operations. Consular staff in Egypt and London Turks and Caicos Grand Turk 10 can advise British nationals still in Egypt about how to Islands transfer money through commercial means. Uganda Kampala 60 Ukraine Kiev 50 Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State United Arab Abu Dhabi 80 for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he first Emirates received reports of unrest in Egypt. [40209] United Arab Dubai 110 Emirates Mr Hague: Our embassy in Cairo submitted a report Uruguay Montevideo 20 on the possible impact on Egypt of events in Tunisia on USA Atlanta 10 16 January 2010. A further report was made on 18 USA Boston 25 January which highlighted small demonstrations outside USA Chicago 30 the Tunisian embassy as well as a number of self- USA Houston 25 immolations. A report of mass demonstrations on 25 USA Los Angeles 35 January was submitted on 26 January. USA Miami 15 In addition to these three reports, I received regular USA New York 55 up-dates on the political, economic and social conditions (consulate general) in Egypt in the months before the unrest began. Our USA New York (UN) 90 ambassador also wrote a number of more formal reports USA San Francisco 35 over that period. My officials have exchanged information USA Washington 250 throughout, and continue to do so. USA Denver 1— USA Orlando 1— Gaza: Imports USA Plymouth 1— Uzbekistan Tashkent 30 David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Vatican Holy See 10 and Commonwealth Affairs what recent assessment he Venezuela Caracas 45 has made of the change in the volume of goods entering Vietnam Hanoi 40 the Gaza Strip from Israel since June 2010. [41306] Vietnam Ho Chi Minh 25 Alistair Burt: As we have said previously, we welcomed Yemen Sana’a 140 Israel’s move last July from a restricted list of around Zambia Lusaka 30 120 items permitted to enter Gaza to a far more permissive Zimbabwe Harare 70 list of only prohibited and dual use items. Since then the 1 5 or fewer. volume and variety of goods entering Gaza has increased Note: Posts with fewer than 100 staff are rounded up to the nearest 5 and significantly. We believe on average that around 250 those with 100 or more are rounded up to the nearest 10. truck loads of goods enter Gaza through Kerem Shalom We do not hold a comparable list for financial year on a daily basis. 2009-10. Staffing at posts is kept under constant review However, as we continue to stress to the Israeli so it is not possible to give numbers for future years. Government, including when the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, Minister Departmental Public Expenditure for the Middle East, Alastair Burt, visited the region on 16-19 January, more needs to be done to effect real Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State changes on the ground. For ordinary Gazans, who for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent cannot afford to buy many of the goods now entering progress has been made on establishing a new foreign Gaza, that means a revival of the economy and currency mechanism. [40125] opportunities for employment. It also means getting the basics right in terms of reconstruction of Gaza’s housing Mr Hague: The key principles for operation of the and infrastructure. foreign currency mechanism and transitional measures We want to see the approvals process for dual use have been established with the Treasury. Internal work items for reconstruction projects accelerated and for the to integrate the mechanism with the Foreign and extension of the process to include raw materials for Commonwealth Office’s internal financial processes manufacturing. While we are encouraged by Israel’s continues. December announcement on exports, we need to see this translated into reality.Manufacturing exports destined Egypt: Politics and Government for Gaza’s traditional markets of Israel and the West Bank is the key to reviving the economy, countering Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State radicalisation and bolstering Gaza’s pragmatic business for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he fraternity. is taking to assist British citizens without access to finance to return to the UK from Egypt. [40208] Gaza: Manpower

Mr Hague: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for organised two government-funded charter flights for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent British nationals on 3 and 5 February 2011. Passengers assessment he has made of the number of international signed an undertaking to repay the cost of their seat on staff of non-governmental organisations entering and the flight and were not required to pay in advance. leaving the Gaza Strip. [41303] 999W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 1000W

Alistair Burt: We have made no recent assessment of Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond the number of non-governmental organisation (NGO) (Yorks) (Mr Hague), raised it with the Israeli ambassador staff entering and leaving Gaza. However, we and the to the UK in October 2010. He also raised it during his Department for International Development have a regular visit to Israel in November 2010 with Foreign Minister dialogue with the NGO community and we are well Lieberman. On both occasions he stressed that the appraised of the difficulties they continue to face. We misuse of British passports was unacceptable and should have lobbied the Israeli Government on the issue of not happen again. Our ambassador in Tel Aviv also access permits and residency visas for international made this clear to the Israeli Government in November NGO staff. More recently we have been aware of difficulties 2010. for some international staff members leaving Gaza I have no plans to make any further statements to through the Rafah crossing. We see little prospects for Parliament following the oral statement made by the change in access through Rafah in the short term. previous Foreign Secretary on 23 March 2010, Official British nationals intending to visit Gaza should be Report, columns 133-34. aware that we continue to advise against all travel to Gaza. Middle East: International Assistance Iran: Human Rights David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for and Commonwealth Affairs how much funding his Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent steps Department provided to aid and promote joint business he has taken to support human rights groups in Iran. initiatives between Israelis and Palestinians in 2010; and [41644] what proportion of UK aid to Israel and the Palestinian territories in that year this represented. [41289] Alistair Burt: The Iranian authorities ban activity by human rights groups in Iran as a means to prevent the Alistair Burt: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office regular and abhorrent abuses by the state coming to has funded a £318,000 project through its Conflict light. We have called on the Iranian authorities to programme: “investing in Peace through information respect their international obligations including the right and communications technology (ICT) business to freedom of association. We regularly raise concern Co-operation and Capacity Building”. This project has over the human rights situation in Iran including individual led to new business partnerships between Israeli and cases, and hope that our doing so will encourage the Palestinian companies. Four business partnerships valued Iranian authorities to show restraint towards those in at an estimated $2 million have already been established Iran who seek to defend and promote human rights. and others are in the making. The project has received international praise, winning a nomination for a Global Israel: Passports ICT Excellence Award and most recently receiving the Digital Opportunity Award. Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for UK Trade and Investment have also implemented a Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assurances programme which supports both the Palestine-Britain he has received from the government of Israel since 15 Business Council and UK Israel Business. June 2010 on its policy on the misuse of British We are not able to say what percentage of United passports. [41497] Kingdom aid to Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Alistair Burt: We have not yet received any formal Territories this represents. assurances from the Israeli Government on this issue. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent (Yorks) (Mr Hague), raised it with the Israeli ambassador discussions he has had with (a) the Palestinian to the UK in October 2010. He also raised it during his Authority, (b) his Israeli counterpart and (c) his US visit to Israel in November 2010 with Foreign Minister counterpart on efforts to strengthen the West Bank Lieberman. On both occasions he stressed that the economy. [41293] misuse of British passports was unacceptable and should not happen again. Our ambassador in Tel Aviv also Alistair Burt: We have a detailed and ongoing dialogue made this clear to the Israeli Government in November with the Palestinian Authority about a number of issues 2010. related to the Gazan and West Bank economies. We also raise with the Israeli Government our concerns Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for regarding, in particular, the stagnation of the economy Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) what in Gaza. discussions he has had since 10 June 2010 with the We have made clear, most recently when the Minister Government of Israel on its policy on the misuse of for the Middle East, my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary British passports; what the outcome was; and if he will of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Alistair make a statement; [41498] Burt) visited Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories (2) what recent representations he has made to the in January 2011, that, while we welcomed Israel’s move Government of Israel on the misuse of British from a list of permitted goods to a list of banned goods passports. [41499] and its December 2010 announcement that it would allow some exports, more needs to be done to bring real Alistair Burt: We have not yet received any formal changes on the ground. This includes reaching pre-2007 assurances from the Israeli Government on this issue. levels of exports by the middle of this year, allowing the The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth import of dual-use raw materials for manufacture, and 1001W Written Answers17 FEBRUARY 2011 Written Answers 1002W ensuring Gaza has access to it’s traditional markets of Final funding for 2010-11 is not confirmed and is Israel and the West Bank. Reviving Gaza’s economy is based on the provisional allocation. Funding for the in Israel’s interests; it will create jobs, counter radicalisation, 2011-12 financial year has yet to be confirmed, however provide an alternative to the Hamas-controlled tunnel financial support through the MENA CP will continue smuggling economy and bolster Gaza’s pragmatic business for the deployment of the British Support Team. community. Thailand: Cambodia David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Lindsay Roy: To ask the Secretary of State for discussions he has had with (a) his US counterpart, Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he (b) the Palestinian Authority and (c) his Israeli has received on recent events on the Cambodia-Thai counterpart on US steps to strengthen the Palestinian border; and if he will make a statement. [41643] Authority security forces. [41296] Mr Jeremy Browne: I have been concerned by the Alistair Burt: My officials have regular discussions outbreak of fighting on the Cambodia-Thai border and with the US and the Palestinian Authority on Palestinian deeply regret the loss of life on both sides. The UK has security sector development. It is important that we do urged both Governments to exercise restraint and to so given our substantial political and financial commitment resolve the dispute through peaceful means. to developing the Palestinian Authority (PA) security Following a private session on 14 February 2011, the forces. We do so in close co-ordination with the US UN Security Council made a press statement expressing through the UK’s British support team, which provides its concern. It called on both sides to exercise restraint, training for the security sector, for example, in developing to establish a permanent ceasefire and to resolve the leaderships skills and standards of professionalism. situation through effective dialogue. The members of Building the capacity of the PA security forces is vital the Security Council expressed support for the active in helping lay the ground work for a future Palestinian efforts of the Association of South East Asian Nations state and a lasting solution to the conflict in the region. (ASEAN) and encouraged the parties to continue to It is specifically laid out as a Roadmap obligation and co-operate with ASEAN in this regard. our work is in line with this. Turkey: EU Enlargement It is on this latter point in particular that we engage the Israeli Government. We are alive to Israel’s security Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State concerns and believe that the Palestinian Authority has for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent taken considerable steps to address its Roadmap obligations estimate he has made of the likely timetable for the on security and developing the institutions of state. It is accession of Turkey as a full member of the EU; and if important that Israel now reciprocates, in particular by he will make a statement. [41504] halting all settlement construction so that negotiations on a two state agreement can resume. Mr Lidington: EU accession is a condition-based not Palestinians: Security Forces time-based process. Turkey’s accession is a key goal for the Government, subject to the rigorous application of David Cairns: To ask the Secretary of State for the accession criteria. We believe that Turkish accession Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how much would benefit both the UK and EU, contributing to our funding his Department provided to assist the US security and prosperity.The accession process is challenging Security Coordinator for Israel and the Palestinian and Turkey must meet the criteria and requirements of territories in the training of Palestinian security forces the EU acquis before it can join the Union. in (a) 2008, (b) 2009 and (c) 2010. [41297] Western Sahara: Politics and Government Alistair Burt: The Tri-Departmental (the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, the Ministry of Defence and Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for the Department for International Development) Middle Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he East and North Africa Conflict Pool (MENA CP) has received on the recent incident at el-Aauin/Gdeim funds the deployment of the British Support Team in Izak and its effect on the 1991 ceasefire agreement in Ramallah, to assist the US Security Co-ordinator in Western Sahara. [41172] providing technical support and advice on governance, leadership and human rights issues to the Palestinian Alistair Burt: The Moroccan Parliament conducted Security Sector, including the Civil Police, Ministry of and published its own investigation into the events in Interior and Ministry of Justice. Management of the Laayoune and the Gdeim Izik camp. British Support Team is led by the UK Ministry of Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch Defence. also visited the territory and issued independent reports. MENA CP funding per financial year is as follows: An official from our embassy in Rabat visited Western Sahara in December 2010 and met with a range of £ Moroccan officials, international bodies, UN agencies and local non-governmental organisations. 2007-08 347,474 2008-09 1,925,610 We understand that the UN Department for 2009-10 2,690,823 Peacekeeping Operations will send a mission to Western Sahara in February 2011 to assess the activities of UN 2010-11 2,450,000 Mission for the Referendum in Western Sahara. ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 17 February 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 1113 BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS—continued Apprenticeships ...... 1113 Higher Education...... 1123 Apprenticeships ...... 1127 Legal Aid ...... 1125 Bank Lending ...... 1119 Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 1117 Construction Sector ...... 1125 Low-emission Vehicles ...... 1121 Departmental Responsibilities ...... 1128 Post Boxes...... 1126 Employment Growth Strategy ...... 1126 Regional Growth Fund ...... 1122 Entrepreneurship ...... 1118 Small Businesses (Recruitment) ...... 1127 Export Licences ...... 1122 Topical Questions ...... 1128 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Thursday 17 February 2011

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 92WS HEALTH...... 95WS Council Tax Benefit ...... 92WS Offender Personality Disorder ...... 95WS Decent Homes Programme ...... 92WS Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 93WS TREASURY ...... 91WS New Homes Bonus...... 93WS Financial Regulation...... 91WS DEFENCE...... 95WS Supplementary Estimates...... 95WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 96WS Supplementary Estimates...... 95WS Sickness Absence ...... 96WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Thursday 17 February 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 973W CABINET OFFICE...... 937W Apprentices...... 975W Average Earnings ...... 937W Apprenticeships ...... 975W Businesses: Bexley...... 938W Arms Trade...... 977W Infant Mortality...... 938W Business: Energy ...... 979W Life Expectancy: Females ...... 939W Business Investment Scheme ...... 978W Older Workers...... 940W Business: Rural Areas ...... 979W Personal Income ...... 940W Climate Change Projects Office: Greater London .. 980W Principal Civil Service Pension Scheme...... 943W Community Interest Companies ...... 980W Debts: Advisory Services...... 980W Fair Access...... 980W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 887W Fossil Fuels ...... 981W Affordable Housing: Construction ...... 887W Groceries Supply Code ...... 975W Councillors ...... 887W Higher Education...... 973W Departmental Domestic Visits ...... 887W Higher Education: Admissions ...... 981W Departmental Public Appointments...... 889W Local Enterprise Partnerships...... 983W Fire Services: Cambridgeshire...... 889W Manpower...... 983W Green Belt...... 889W Money Lenders...... 984W Housing: Overcrowding ...... 890W National Regional Development Agency Private Rented Housing: Housing Benefit...... 890W Transition Programme Board...... 984W Private Rented Housing: Standards ...... 891W New Businesses: Bexley...... 985W Residents’ Associations ...... 891W Older People: Scotland...... 985W Social Rented Housing...... 891W One North East...... 985W Travellers: Caravan Sites ...... 892W Patents: EU Action ...... 986W Voluntary Organisations: Finance...... 892W Regional Development Agencies...... 986W Regional Development Agency...... 987W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 908W Regional Government...... 988W BSkyB: News Corporation...... 908W Regional Growth Fund ...... 988W Digital Economy Act 2010...... 908W Royal Mail ...... 974W Licensing...... 908W Small Businesses ...... 975W Members: Correspondence ...... 909W Students ...... 989W Mobile Phones: Harassment ...... 909W Students: Scotland ...... 989W Newspaper Press ...... 910W Trade Promotion...... 989W Tourism: Marketing ...... 910W Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE...... 913W HEALTH—continued Afghanistan: Peacekeeping Operations ...... 913W Carers: Grandparents ...... 894W Armed Forces: Pensions...... 916W Chlamydia: Screening ...... 894W Christmas Island: Radioactive Waste...... 916W Departmental Contracts ...... 895W Defence: Procurement...... 917W Diabetes: Health Services...... 895W Defence: Sales ...... 918W General Practitioners ...... 896W Depleted Uranium ...... 919W Health Services: Prices ...... 897W Munitions ...... 919W Horse Meat...... 897W Nimrod Aircraft...... 920W Mental Health Services ...... 897W Nuclear Submarines...... 921W NHS Foundation Trusts: Debts ...... 898W Nuclear Weapons...... 922W NHS: Managers ...... 898W Strategic Defence and Security Review ...... 922W NHS: Pensions...... 899W NHS: Private Sector...... 899W DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 922W Prostate Gland: Medical Treatments...... 900W Prime Minister ...... 922W Transition Programme ...... 900W

ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 910W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 936W Energy: Business ...... 910W Crimes of Violence: Females...... 936W Energy: EU Action ...... 911W Drugs: Crime ...... 936W Energy: Housing ...... 911W Police: Finance...... 936W Energy: National Policy Statements ...... 912W UK Border Agency: Peterborough City Council.... 937W International Climate Fund ...... 912W Solar Power: Feed-in Tariffs...... 912W Warm Front Scheme: Enfield...... 913W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 933W Warm Home Discount Scheme ...... 913W Sri Lanka: Internally Displaced People...... 933W Sudan: Overseas Aid...... 934W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL United Nations ...... 935W AFFAIRS...... 923W World Bank...... 935W Animal Products: Clones ...... 923W Animal Welfare ...... 923W JUSTICE...... 902W Animal Welfare: Circuses...... 923W Corruption: Business ...... 902W Arctic Resources ...... 924W Corston Review...... 902W Birds ...... 924W Death Certificates: Fees and Charges...... 902W Circuses: Animal Welfare...... 925W Harassment: Restraining Order...... 903W Common Fisheries Policy ...... 925W Lancaster Prison ...... 905W Dairy Farming ...... 925W Legal Aid: Landlord and Tenant...... 906W Dangerous Dogs ...... 926W Legal Aid: Repossession ...... 906W Departmental Information Officers ...... 926W Legal Aid Scheme ...... 905W Dogs: Electric Shock Equipment ...... 928W Legal Aid: Social Security Benefits ...... 906W Forests ...... 928W National Offender Management Service: Forests: Deer...... 929W Qualifications...... 906W Gangmasters Licensing Authority: Finance ...... 929W Prisoners: Foreign Nationals...... 907W Inland Waterways: Avon ...... 930W Social Security Benefits: Tribunals ...... 907W Irish Sea: Pollution...... 931W National Nature Reserves ...... 931W Noise: National Policy Statements ...... 931W PRIME MINISTER ...... 943W Palm Oil Crops ...... 932W Business: Community Development...... 943W Pets ...... 933W Members: Correspondence ...... 944W Rabbits...... 933W Squirrels...... 934W SCOTLAND...... 893W Waste Disposal: Devonport Dockyard...... 933W Private Rented Housing: Fines...... 893W Scotland Bill ...... 893W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 990W Afghanistan: Females...... 990W Afghanistan: Overseas Aid...... 990W TRANSPORT ...... 965W BBC External Services: Finance...... 992W Aviation: Working Hours...... 965W Colombia: Human Rights...... 992W Bus Services: Finance...... 966W Departmental Manpower...... 993W Departmental NDPBs...... 967W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 997W Galileo System: Finance ...... 967W Egypt: Politics and Government ...... 997W Highways Agency ...... 968W Gaza: Imports...... 998W HM Coastguard: Costs ...... 968W Gaza: Manpower ...... 998W Lorries: Sleep Apnoea...... 968W Iran: Human Rights...... 999W Railways: Construction...... 968W Israel: Passports ...... 999W Railways: Franchising ...... 969W Middle East: International Assistance...... 1000W Railways: Industrial Disputes...... 969W Palestinians: Security Forces ...... 1001W Roads: Accidents ...... 969W Thailand: Cambodia...... 1002W Roads: Snow and Ice...... 969W Turkey: EU Enlargement ...... 1002W Rolling Stock: Procurement ...... 970W Western Sahara: Politics and Government ...... 1002W Salt...... 971W Snow and Ice...... 972W HEALTH...... 894W Southeastern ...... 972W Cancer Drugs Fund ...... 894W Tolls: Lorries...... 973W Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY ...... 944W WORK AND PENSIONS—continued Banks: Pay ...... 944W Departmental Official Cars...... 952W Child Care Tax Credit...... 945W Departmental Public Expenditure...... 952W Departmental Conferences...... 945W Disability Living Allowance...... 953W Disability Living Allowance: Care Homes ...... 945W Disability Living Allowance: AIDS...... 953W Financial Services: Consumer Protection...... 946W Health and Safety Executive ...... 954W Financial Services: Pay...... 946W Housing Benefit ...... 954W Income Tax: Northern Ireland ...... 947W Housing Benefit: Pregnant Women ...... 955W Members: Correspondence ...... 947W Incapacity Benefit: Dartford ...... 955W National Insurance Contributions ...... 947W Industrial Health and Safety...... 956W Revenue and Customs: ICT ...... 948W Jobcentre Plus: Kilmarnock ...... 956W Royal Bank of Scotland: Santander ...... 949W Pensioners: Personal Savings...... 956W Taxation...... 949W Public Expenditure...... 958W Taxation: Aviation ...... 949W Remploy...... 959W UK Financial Investments ...... 949W Remploy: Manpower ...... 959W VAT: Supermarkets ...... 950W Remploy: Trade Unions ...... 959W Welfare Tax Credits: Repayments...... 950W Social Security Benefits...... 959W Social Security Benefits: Hearing Impairment ...... 961W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 951W Social Security Benefits: Kirkcaldy ...... 962W Access to Work Programme: Sign Language...... 951W State Retirement Pensions: Females ...... 963W Children: Maintenance ...... 951W Unemployment and Early Retirement: Females..... 964W Departmental Manpower...... 952W Work Capability Assessment...... 963W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Thursday 24 February 2011

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CONTENTS

Thursday 17 February 2011

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1113] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills

Bahrain [Col. 1135] Answer to urgent question—(Mr Hague)

Business of the House [Col. 1142] Statement—(Sir George Young)

Forestry (England) [Col. 1155] Statement—(Mrs Spelman)

Social Security [Col. 1173] Motion—(Steve Webb)—on a Division, agreed to

Petitions [Col. 1214]

Housing Benefit [Col. 1215] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Rail Investment [Col. 341WH] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 91WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 887W] [see index inside back page]