Appendix A A Conversation with the Authors: The Lina Bo Bardi Effect Note to the reader: Providing a context for the preceding from the impressive open square at MASP to the long timber chapters in the book, the following conversation with the deck at SESC Pompeia called “The Beach”. New concepts authors, via email, was collated in March 2016. It is not of public space are part and parcel of her buildings. And ordered chronologically or in any particular order. finally, the way she has managed to use heritage as a strategic resource. It was quite progressive at this time. Ana Carolina Bierrenbach (ACB): ACB In beginning our conversation, we should consider Brazilian : culture. Steffen, what is your personal connection with Annette, what is your response on Brazilian culture? What is fi Brazil? And how did you first come across Lina Bo Bardi's your personal connection to Brazil, and how did you rst ’ work? come across Lina s work? Steffen Lehmann: Annette Condello: I was aware of the MASP museum since I had seen photos For me, Brazilian culture began when I saw the 1980s film of it around 1985. My Brazilian wife Cida de Aragon had Pixote, which was so distressing, but it didn’t put me off told me some anecdotes about the building, especially its wanting to visit São Paulo. I have relations there. The first vast public space underneath the building, but I could not get time I stumbled across Lina's work was in Portugal in 1997 to Brazil before 1990. When I finally visited São Paulo, quite accidently. When I was travelling around Porto for my Brasilia, Belo Horizonte, Rio de Janeiro and Salvador, I not Masters to document Alvaro Siza’s architecture, in the only visited the MASP and Glass House, but also discovered context of Francesco Venezia’s work in Italy, I went to the more of Lina’s projects and spent some time at the Institute, Lello bookshop and bought a booklet on the SESC Pompeia doing research for my book Brazil’s Pathway into Mod- Factory. At the time I didn’t know who Lina was. I actually ernism, which came out of my Ph.D. studies. I was fortunate thought the booklet was about Pompeian ruins. What I find to meet the masters of Brazilian architecture before they interesting is that in Peter Robb’s Death in Brazil (2003), he died, such as Lucio Costa and Roberto Burle Marx, but I noted that in the early 1980s, Brazil still had a consulate in never met Lina Bo Bardi. Paulo Mendes da Rocha was very Naples. Architecture-wise, I thought about Lina’s work generous with his time. I remember I was so impressed with when I was living in Mexico in the early 2000s. This is the SESC Pompeia and Lina’s urban renewal projects in specifically the case with her Sugarloaf cable-car renovation Salvador, Bahia, that I kept talking to my Brazilian archi- project, Rio de Janeiro, in the context of Italian architect tects’ friends about it. The SESC is Lina’s largest and most Adamo Boari’s work in Mexico City—I’ve always thought comprehensive project that took many years to be com- there was something there, something they had in common. pleted, and it reflects probably the best of her personal Since then I’ve done research in Manaus, Recife, Belo approach to process, re-use and participation of the end-user. Horizonte, Brasilia and Rio de Janeiro for my Ph.D. and saw Since then I have visited Brazil numerous times. Three Lina’s works in São Paulo with my Brazilian relatives. things have interested me in Bo Bardi's work that have been Uncannily, one of them runs the restaurant in the there for over 25 years ago and are still there: firstly, the MASP. Also, I had been doing research on Pietro Maria relaxed and almost natural way she composed building Bardi, Pier Luigi Nervi, Gregori Warchavchik and Mina volumes, different functions and materials with each other. Klabin Warchavchik, which led me straight back to Lina’s Secondly, the integration and celebration of public space: work. The other uncanny thing is that I found Steffen’s © Springer International Publishing Switzerland 2016 161 A. Condello and S. Lehmann (eds.), Sustainable Lina, DOI 10.1007/978-3-319-32984-0 162 Appendix A: A Conversation with the Authors: The Lina Bo Bardi Effect writing on Brazil in Australia. We met and started talking her: “Today, I would make a house with a wood and stone about Lina’s projects and so this is how the idea for the book oven, without windows, but surrounded by a large park, full emerged. While there are several publications on Lina Bo of trees. I would throw the seeds at the wind in the woods”. Bardi’s work, we recognised that there was a gap with her At the same time, after a visit to Gaudi’s Park Guell in adaptive reuse projects. Barcelona, Lina built the sinuous retaining walls and walk- ways at her Glass House garden (Figs. A.1 and A.2). I believe ACB: she accomplished her passion for the tropical environment at When you think of Lina’s work, does any other female the City Hall project’s remarkable vertical gardens. architect role model come to mind which had a strong impact on yourself—except Eileen Grey of course, who was ACB: quite particular in her approach? Annette, you also have a strong interest in landscape. How would you describe the role of landscape and gardens in Annette Condello : Lina’s work? I’ve never really thought about it. I don’t think about gender Annette Condello when I think about architects. I have to say Bernard Rud- : ’ ofsky and Italian architect Francesco Venezia have impacted Lina s buildings and landscapes provided her with the me quite a lot. Italian architect Gae Aulenti has been on the middle ground, which she treated as a nurtured form of back of my mind, especially her impressive conversion of luxury. This is also how she imagined to transform Brazilian ’ the Gare D’Orsay railway station into the Musee D’Orsay in cities. Many of Lina s projects, especially the ones that Paris. I first came across Aulenti’s work in Manfredo challenge the traditional approach like the SESC Pompeia, “ ” Tafuri’s History of Italian Architecture: 1944–1985.So framed the organic approach. In this way, she bonded reflecting back on her work what springs to mind is the plants with ruins, which made her conserve existing build- “ ” Grotta Rosa on the Amalfi coast. Parts of it remind me of ings by adding green walls and green rooms or rather Lina’s SESC Pompeia complex. Two other architects I think plant rooms. Lina enriched the landscape poetically by of are both from Chicago: Marion Mahony Griffin, whose fusing pre-Columbian references and local references by fl — modern Café Australia restoration project embraced the carpeting oors with fresh eucalyptus leaves from an landscape, and more recently Jeanne Gang’s Pan-American Australian species. In this way, she allowed abandoned Aqua Tower. We mustn’t forget Lina designed towers for structures to breathe within their sites. I think she preserved the Taba Guaianazes complex too—bordered by a luxuriant the quality of luxury of the site, but in a new form. Lina wall. resuscitated building sites and their cultural remnants to show how luxury has changed from a natural phenomenon ACB: through the landscape—to one about managing building My next question is about landscape, which isn't simply waste in cities. about trees and bushes, but about garden design as a part of ACB: the project, as part of urbanism. There is random planting of So, how did Lina understand the notion of adaptive re-use identifiable trees and plants—often exotic, lush and and recycling of existing structures? colourful—juxtaposed with the building and circulation with specific framed views into the exterior, for instance, the view Renato Anelli: into nature at the Glass House or MASP garden, but also the Bo Bardi understood this notion in her ethnographic surveys more modest herbal garden at the SESC Pompeia. Renato, in North-eastern Brazil, the poorest region, where she had how would you describe the role of landscape and gardens great interest in the recycled utilitarian objects. She called in Lina's work? What about the Japanese resonances in her this the “civilization of survival” and proposed folk skills in gardens? recycling methods as a source to refresh modern design against growing consumerism in the 1970s. In Lina’s Renato Anelli: restoration projects we can find some parallels between Lina travelled to Japan twice. In 1973, she visited the recycling and the re-use of objects and structures. Seki-Tei at the Ryoan-Ji Temple in Kyoto where she took some photos of Japanese rock gardens. Understanding the ACB: “value of emptiness” is visible in some of her works. How- Coming from Italy to Brazil, Lina brought many of her own ever, she encountered landscape in the rainforest along the preoccupations and experiences, such as working with Gio Atlantic coast, which provoked a lasting fascination. Lina Ponti, with her to the “new world.” But we realise—once wrote about this lush environment numerous times. In a MASP was built and completed, and out of the way—she private letter to her husband, Lina expressed what it meant to commenced to absorb the cultural traditions of Appendix A: A Conversation with the Authors: The Lina Bo Bardi Effect 163 Fig.