TRANSCRIPTION/TRANSCRIPTION EVENT/ÉVÉNEMENT Transcription prepared by Media Q Inc. exclusively for Halifax International Security Forum

DATE/DATE: November 24, 2019 10:30 a.m. (AST) LOCATION/ENDROIT: Westin Nova Scotian Hotel, 1181 Hollis St., HALIFAX, NS PRINCIPAL(S)/PRINCIPAUX: Peter van Praagh, President, Halifax International Security Forum Hon. Harjit Sajjan, Minister of National Defence, Canada Commander Solveig Krey, Deputy Assistant Chief of Staff, Operations Section, Defence Staff Norway, Norwegian Armed Forces Air Commodore Elanor Boekholt-O'Sullivan, Commander, Cyber Defence Force, Armed Forces Captain Fiona Shepherd, Deputy Assistant Chief of Staff, Logistics, Operations and Plans, British Royal Navy Rob Bauer, Chief of Defence, Paz Magat, Director, Peace with Women Fellowship, Halifax International Security Forum Jody Thomas, Deputy Minister of National Defence, Department of National Defence, Canada Atul Khare, Under-Secretary-General for Operational Support General Stephen Wilson, Vice Chief of Staff, US Air Force Dr. Janice Gross Stein, Belzberg Professor of Conflict Management and Founding Director, Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy, University of , Moderator SUBJECT/SUJET: Plenary 7 at the Halifax International Security Forum entitled “Security Solutions, Women’s Contributions.”

Peter van Praagh: Good morning. Women are usually an afterthought at security conferences around the world. Oftentimes, they are relegated to special all-women panels where the discussion is limited to gender. This has got to change. Halifax International Security Forum wants this to change. That is why we have made a deliberate attempt over the past five years to increase the diversity of our panels. That is why we created the Peace with Women Fellowship Program that provides leadership training for female officers from NATO and NATO partner countries.

That is why we have had panels over the past four years at Halifax to highlight women's participation in security. Women in security should not be the exception; they should be the norm. That is why this morning's plenary panel will be the last time the Halifax International Security Forum holds a panel that portrays women's contributions to peace and security as separate and distinct from the larger global effort. (Applause) Women in security should not be the exception; they should be the norm.

Halifax International Security Forum believes that every part of society has a responsibility to contribute to equality and that those people who are marginalized not be left to address that challenge alone. We need to call upon the champions among us who sit in positions of influence to tip the scale. Some of those champions will be on this panel and I'd like to introduce one of those champions, Canada's Minister of National Defence, Harjit Sajjan. (Applause)

Hon. Harjit Sajjan: Thank you very much Peter. Good morning everyone. Had a wonderful jog this morning, those of you who were able to wake up in time. (Laughter) You were busy talking very important issues obviously for, for security around the world.

Thank you very much Peter. This is a very important panel on security solutions and especially women's contributions to it. On Friday night, at the dinner hosted by HISF, we hear from our own fellows about how all of society needs to be part of the solution, to including more women's voices in defence and security. And my most important role is not as, is not as Minister, it's actually as a father, father to my 11-year old daughter, father to my 8-year old son. That's how we're going to make these changes.

We all need to stand up and make sure that our decision-making tables, whether in politics, in our militaries, at our conferences have women prominently featured. Voices like that of Lieutenant-General Christine Whitecross, who currently is the Commandant of the NATO Defence College in Rome and the Canadian Armed Forces first female three-star General. (Applause) Or Canada's first Ambassador for Women, Peace and Security, Jacqueline O'Neill (applause) who helped establish the Roméo Dallaire Child Soldiers Initiative. She now plays a critical role in helping our government protect the rights of women facing insecurity and violence and to promote women's meaningful participation in our development of peace and security efforts around the globe.

Gender equity plays a critical role in creating lasting solutions to the challenges we face around the world, in creating spaces that allow everyone to succeed and how we can help build a more just and secure world. All of us have more to do. All of us must look at our decisions and make sure that we are supporting a more inclusive, inclusive space, especially in defence and security, because when we increase diversity in defence, it makes our forces more operationally effective, it improves how we understand conflict zones and affords greater access to communities that we otherwise might have overlooked.

Though strides have been made in Canada, we need to make sure that our own institutions are welcoming and inclusive spaces. It is why the Canadian Armed Forces launched Operation HONOUR to ensure that our workspaces are free from harassment that women still often have to face. It is why our government has committed to growing the number of women who serve in the Canadian military to at least 25% by the total, by 2026. And this is not the end goal; the end goal is gender parity to represent our population of Canada. And why our defence team completes a gender-based analysis plus as part of all defence team activities now, to make sure that our policies and our equipment support those who we serve, no matter what their gender.

Talking about being inclusive is only a good first step, but we can't just stop at mere words. Real change and lasting change takes action. All of us have more to do and all of us can do better. I, like many of you, look forward to hearing from this panel about what all of us can take the concrete steps so that the defence and security community can more accurately represent the progressive world that we all are working hard to protect.

Now with that, I would like to turn it over to our moderator, Dr. Janice Stein and thank you very much for being here and thank you for being a leader as well, Janice. Thank you.

(Applause)

(Video) (Applause)

Dr. Janice Stein: What a great video. I'm sure the whole panel would agree with that. Let me start by introducing the panel to you. So sitting immediately to my right is Admiral Rob Bauer. I have to make sure I get all the titles right and the ranks. The Chief of Defence for the Netherlands Armed Forces. Sitting next to Admiral Bauer is General Stephen Wilson, the Vice Chief of Staff for the US Air Force. Welcome to you both. Jody Thomas we do not need to welcome. She is one of ours, and she is currently our Deputy Minister of Defence. Great to have you here Jody. Sitting next to Jody is Atul Khare, who said he is a kind of General because he's the Under-Secretary-General for Operational Support at the UN. Welcome to you. And of course, at the end, somebody well known to all of us, our Chief of the Defence Staff Jon Vance. So thank you all for joining in the conversation.

At our dinner on Friday evening, our Deputy had the privilege and the pleasure of introducing this year's fellows to you all. I was probably luckier because I got to spend a day in Toronto with them and had a very special dinner with them. And I cannot tell you what a great group of leaders they are. So before we go to the panel, I'm going to go to two or three of them, just depending on the time, and ask them just to take a minute or two in each case to tell you about a moment of leadership in their careers and what enabled those leadership.

Can I start with Solveig Krey? Do we have a mic for her? We need a, a mic, oh great. Solveig is just a spectacular leader.

Solveig Krey: Thank you for inviting me to be part of this. I'm Solveig Krey from the Royal Norwegian Navy and on the 9th of September in 1995, I had the, I had the pleasure of finally have the command of a submarine in Norway. I had been nine years underwater, three of them as a Commanding Officer. And I couldn't have done this if I didn't have any sponsors actually. There were some brave men, I would say, around me, encouraged me all the way and never had any problems inside a submarine surface as warfare area because I knew them all and they knew me. That was all the other ones outside, how is this possible? Is it possible, a woman? Yes, it's possible, and someone has to be the first, but sadly I'm still the first and the only one. So I'm waiting that you, the other nations are coming behind.

So I, I did three years as a Commanding Officer. Later, I was the Chief of the Submarine Service and I have had some really good bosses along my career, and they have encouraged me and they have actually, there's been Admirals and Generals up to the three and four-star level, said we want you here. And we have to encourage more women to do this. It's not enough to be the first one. It's like we say in France, they say une hirondelle fait pas le printemps. It needs more than just one.

Dr. Janice Stein: Absolument. Merci beaucoup.

Thank you very much Solveig. (Applause)

You know, that's a great point that Solveig just made and we need critical mass of diversities. We're going to come back to the panel for that discussion. Before we do, sitting next to Solveig, wow, this is some star that I've had the pleasure to spend some time with. Elanor O'Sullivan, who by the way, reports to Admiral Bauer. (Laughter) No pressure. No pressure on Elanor.

Elanor O'Sullivan: So I prefer standing with my back to him. (Laughter) So there's no verbal, non-verbal communication on what I am saying. Is that okay sir? (Laughter)

Adm. Rob Bauer: Absolutely.

Elanor O'Sullivan: I think he said yes. (Laughter)

About my bravest moment, a couple of years ago, I was appointed to become Commander of an airbase, and it was the first female Commander of an operational airbase. And the news was all over it. A woman, can she do it? But intern, internal our organization, the discussion was she is not a pilot since I'm an Intelligence Officer. And that was a bigger problem inside the Air Force than outside the Air Force. So how can you run an airbase if you're not a pilot? So pressure was high to succeed and in my first week at the airbase, the news was all over integrity incidents. And I started to communica-, talking to the pilots and telling them because it was an issue with the pilots.

And I was talking to them that culture needed to change and there was like yeah, that's why we need a pilot as a Commander of this airbase. (Laughter) So I shut down the base. (Laughter) Adm. Rob Bauer: She did. (Applause)

Elanor O'Sullivan: And I waited, I waited how long it would take them to, you know, like their airplane better than having the discussion with me on culture. And after eight days, they were back in their planes and we use those days to talk about the culture and that things had to change and that as long as I was a Commander there, things would go differently. We would be talking about the things we had been doing that were not accepted anymore, not outside our organization nor inside our organization. And of course, you can imagine my boss was hounding me, what are you doing? Other people are depending on you.

Adm. Rob Bauer: Not me. Not me. (Laughter) Air Force, that was the Air Force.

Elanor O'Sullivan: Of course. Yeah, that's part of, partly true. (Laughter) He was the (crosstalk) —

Adm. Rob Bauer: You (crosstalk) lose Rob. You're going to lose –

Elanor O'Sullivan: That, after that, they said, I told them as long as you think culture is a soft femalish word, you'll have a rotten time working for me. You might want to find a different job. Most of them remained and my successor is a pilot so things are back to normal again, I think. (Laughter) (Applause)

Dr. Janice Stein: You're getting a sense of what a wonderful time I had with these 11 leaders. They are just something else.

I'd love to find Lysane from Canada. Where's Lysane? Okay, great.

Lysane Martel: Good morning. I wasn't expecting to be called, but I can – my, the moment I talked about is when I was in Afghanistan. I was Chief Airspace Management, and my, the issue was that the Afghan artillery was firing within the airspace, depending on the, the ground level, where they're at, the mountainous level, and we were trying to explain that to them. You need to coordinate before you fire.

Of course, that was a tough act and during one of a, an exercise, we went to the Afghan Army base to be part of it, and I'm trying to explain what airspace is and why it's important for them to discuss. My predecessor had tried twice, and we're not even invited to speak, so I thought how am I going to explain – of course, I'm the only woman – with Afghan hard-core artillery officer that want nothing to do with me, so I decided to show the airspace in using a board that would hold our water when the water was delivered. So I had, you know, cardboard and tape and I'm trying to make a 3D picture of our airspace.

I have a map but I know the Afghan look at 3D. Like, they need to see it. So I'm doing the airways and the route and I have this – you know, I worked for about two days on this – and I'm explaining what it is and I'm holding the paper explaining the route, the aircraft and so one of the Afghans says oh, so they really have to look up. And I'm like no, no, no. No, this is really, really high. So now I'm making pillar to explain how high and try to make it to scale, and the Afghan look at this and they would go oh, this is going to fall. So they'd come, grab some tape and help in the process.

And so after three days, I was given permission to speak to them, and I explained to them what the airspace was all about, I had a little, a pen to show direction and you know, another object to show where the artillery round was going, and, and after that, one of the artillery officers, one of the Colonels, stood up and say I'm a smart man. I understand. I will do it. And that's all I needed. I needed one of them and then the other, all the region because that was throughout Afghanistan, the other one, each of them said well, I'm a smart man too. (Laughter) I will do it.

And, and I asked at the end of the exercise, I asked the General why he had given me permission to speak. He said it was such a good lesson and you worked so hard. So me doing, you know, the cut and paste, just, you know, trying, I wasn't just sitting in the back, I was involved, they thought I deserved to speak, and I had given them a good lesson. (Applause)

Dr. Janice Stein: So we have time for maybe just one more, Fiona. Yes, so Fiona would like – she's going to ask the panel a question so she's going to start off this (inaudible) conversation. Over to you, Fiona.

Fiona Shepherd: Good morning. Those are three great leadership examples and I just, I just want you to take those. Those are just incredible.

I just wanted to say to the panel that being here, you being here on this panel is a real statement of your commitment to embrace diversity for which thank you from all of us. My question is at what moment in your careers did the importance of embracing diversity resonate with you? And could you please talk to that moment, how it changed you and how you progressed as leaders?

Dr. Janice Stein: Thank you for that, Fiona, and can I start with you, Jody?

Jody Thomas: Sure. Thank you. Thank you all for being here this morning. Sunday morning panels are not normally this full in the audience. (Laughter) So obviously something has resonated about this one.

So my story isn't about – I'll tell a little story, but it's not about a leadership moment – it's a moment where I realized that because I was a woman, my career path was potentially going to be different. So I'm 24, 25 years old, I won't tell you how many years ago that was, and I was a Regular Force, Reserve Force Naval Officer, and the occupation of Surface Officer, so Naval Combat Officer had just become open to women. It was open in the Reserves and so I was the Commanding Officer OIC of a 75-80 foot boat in the summer and it was a lot of fun and I really thought I might join the Reg Force.

My father is a Naval Officer, he was the Commander of the Navy at the time, and I sat down and I said to him I'm really thinking I'm going to join the Reg Force, and he said to me don't. So that's a pretty profound moment when the Commander of Canada's Navy says to his own child don't join the Navy. Why? He said because you'll never run it. Don't join any organization you have no chance of running. He said you're reasonably smart, (laughter) stop screwing around and you might get somewhere.

Dr. Janice Stein: Reasonably smart.

Jody Thomas: Reasonably smart. Stop screwing around, you might get somewhere, but you're never going to run the Navy. The first of will never run the Navy. And he was right. He said you will become so angry fighting the system that it will destroy you and destroy your career. Now partly cause he knows I have a bad temper, but so he maybe knew me, he maybe knew me too well. But he was right. There are a couple of examples of women who have done extraordinarily well: Chris Whitecross, Tammy Harris, Fran Allan, but there's, of that generation en masse.

And so I took a different generation, a different path. I look at it, so Jon Vance sitting here, our Chief of Defence Staff on the panel with me, he and I work side by side every day, about the same age, remarkably similar backgrounds.

Jonathan Vance: (Off microphone). (Laughter)

Jody Thomas: Remarkably similar backgrounds. My father, in fact, became the Vice Chief after his father – I mean, that's, that's a really interesting history – joined the military at the same time and his path to his opportunity was infinite and mine was not going to be. And that's the moment I knew I had to conduct myself in everything I did, in whatever I chose, differently.

And so whether it is standing on a chair in meetings, which I have done – younger, don't recommend it – demanding to be heard or trying to empower women and different cultures and diversity in the job I now have because I consider the next generation the most important part of my career. That moment, I think, shaped the rest of my life.

Dr. Janice Stein: That's great, Jody. Thank you. (Applause)

General Wilson, one of the issues that's come up repeatedly and the research is overwhelming about this, that diversity is so important to performance, but you need mass. Having a single individual actually puts a tremendous burden on that individual. Tell us when and how you have worked to create that critical mass and diversity of thought under your command.

Gen. Stephen Wilson: Well that's a really great point to this cause, you know, we've talked about, we don't just want diversity, we need diversity. It's a national security imperative for all of us and rather than just having, you know, a forum like this, we need it across everything we do in national security. And we've got to get to a tipping point.

I'm going to point over here, you know, grab one of our fellows, Lieutenant-Colonel, or Colonel Deb Lovette, just gave up command of one of our biggest Tech Training Wings. So all the technical training for the Air Force went through her. When she joined the United States Air Force Academy in the early 90s, the woman population was about 13%. This, 10 years later, it was in the low 20%. This last year, we just went over 30% of women in the United States Air Force Academy. So we're making progress and I said we're not stopping there. We got to keep going.

As a matter of fact, today, the Commandant of the United States Air Force Academy is Brigadier-General Michelle Edmundson. She is my former Executive Officer. Like, she's a great role model because not just is she an amazing Officer, she also is a mom, she's got two kids, her husband words, she's an inspiration to lots of people about I can do that. We've got to get, we've got to change the numbers across, so it's not onesies and twosies because it puts a lot of pressure when you're the first, when you're the first female fighter pilot, when you're the first of anything.

And there was, we don't want, it's not a conformity. We need, we need this diversity because they bring something different to the table. (Inaudible) Secretary Carr, (ph) if you were in Sudan, you know, women in the peacekeeping force aren't just a number to add things, they bring a unique perspective and they make it better. And so they can do things that men can't do. The same thing happens in Afghanistan.

And so we're working hard at the basic level, so how do we assess more women into the Force? Either they have role models that they can look up to, how can we knock down the barriers, whether it be parental leave, whether it be dual spouse, couples. We formed a Women's Initiative Team that's, in 2012, to look at the barriers that, hurting females from either coming into the service or staying in the service, and we're just knocking down those barriers. We're making great progress. We still have a long way to go though.

Dr. Janice Stein: Thank you for that. Atul Khare, I think everybody in this room understands that security goes beyond the military and that we need what we call an integrated effort from a whole variety of sectors in our society. But one of the things that I say when I talk about diversity is we're really serious about diversity. That means we're going to have more conflict in our institutions because if we're bringing people in for diversity of thought, people are going to argue more. And that's not something we like to talk about. Tell us how that's worked We have to be really prepared for those kinds of arguments if we're serious about diversity. Tell us how that's worked in the organization that you are leading.

Atul Khare: I think diversity is of critical importance, and indeed to a certain extent, it will lead to argumentation, discussion, development of compromise and consensus, but it is perfectly acceptable. In fact, when we say we want peace, we don't want peace of the symmetry, where everything is stable and nothing moves. We want a peace which is actually founded on full, meaningful and equal contribution of all members of the society. And I think that is of critical importance.

Now, one of the challenges which we are having in peacekeeping is not only the question of gender parity – and I salute all the 11 trailblazers – I want to salute all the trailblazers who were mentioned in Deputy Minister Jody's Think Peace. In my own department, you know, all three of my Deputies are women, but they are women because of, of a biological effect. I mean, they were selected because they were the best, the most competent of the lot. And, but I hope that we arrive at this stage where instead of speaking about trailblazers, we'll be speaking about real equality, and we are quite far from that.

There is another problem which I find in peacekeeping in particular, because we are now dealing with what I call non-state actors. And it was the majority of the (inaudible) seem to have made gender inequality an articular fit (ph) and this is creating tremendous problems. So if we are going to change them, we need to speak from a position of strength and therefore, our operational effectiveness is enhanced by having an equal number of women.

And finally, to conclude, I do believe that apart from operational effectiveness, we need to have diversity because it is the right course to follow. I mean, whether there's operational effectiveness or not, we don't question the same thing about racial diversity. Why should we question that about gender diversity? Thank you.

(Applause)

Dr. Janice Stein: General Vance, turning to you in your role as CDS, leader of forces, I heard you say, and I have said it many times myself in different context, it's not what you say, it's what you do. It's the actual modeling and people watch leaders all the time for what they do. Share with us how you have worked to actually do diversity in Canadian Forces.

Gen. Jonathan Vance: Thanks. Can I just answer Fiona first? Just because I wanted to, to say that, you know, I didn't have an, that epiphany or aha moment. I'm a product of a process and I'm still evolving. I get aha moments every day, men and women who do really good work. On the diversity thing, I mean, my, I think my generation of military leader, you know, as a young infantry officer, diversity happened when the Air Force came to the mess. It had nothing to do with gender. (Laughter) And —

Dr. Janice Stein: And that created conflict, didn't it?

Gen. Jonathan Vance: — yeah, it did. But I guess what I've been exposed to in the Canadian Forces, and I'm proud to say this, is that from the time I was an Officer Cadet all the way through, I've had, I guess, equal parts or near enough – at least the way I absorbed them – were equal parts of good leadership examples from diverse places, whether that was, you know, one, one of my Warrant Officers who was black or a fantastic Warrant Officer in Chilliwack who was a female Warrant Officer teaching me to do drill, through to the, the squadron leaders at Military College all the way through.

So I think it's a process. And part of that, the reason why I wanted to answer you – and I'm not trying to ignore you guys – but the reason I wanted to answer is because, you know, I feel highly imperfect as I try to drive the machine to do what it's got to do, probably making as many mistakes on the way as showing intentionality around making things better for the operational effectiveness of the Armed Forces.

So I only say that because none of us are approaching this, certainly I'm not, from having an answer. Willingness and trying to stick by principles of leadership in general is sort of where we're at, I would say. How do you do it daily? I'll tell you, I got told a word that helps me to describe this. Patty Hajdu, who's a Minister now, Minister of Health for Canada, we were talking about this on the margins of a Cabinet meeting and she said, you know, you've got to be intentional. Now I'd heard all sorts of ways to describe, but you've got to be intentional. And I've used, that stuck with me and you know, it's late in life, I was already CDS, but I use it all the time and I use it with my leaders.

And sometimes the intentionality, you know, I fail to do it or whatnot, but I try. And so whether it's leading the, the senior team to arrive at conclusions on who should be where in the organization, to deliberately, you know, listening and acting on advice, but the important part of your question is you actually have to do it, right? I guess that's the thing —

Dr. Janice Stein: Yes.

Gen. Jonathan Vance: — you have to be intentional and it's got to be just as much a part of your repertoire of things to be worried about as a CDS as is the correct application of firepower, developing the logistics plan for a theatre or providing advice to government. It's part of what you do.

Dr. Janice Stein: Yeah.

Gen. Jonathan Vance: It's all I can –

Dr. Janice Stein: Absolutely. (Applause) And I think every leader in this room knows that it's part of what you do and that people are watching all the time to see what you're doing rather than to listen only to what you're saying. You're, you're so right.

Admiral Bauer, it's clear to me from meeting Elanor O'Sullivan that there is an atmosphere of diversity and critical thinking. You just have to spend 15 minutes with someone who reports to you. (Laughter) No, it's a treat.

Adm. Rob Bauer: If she wants to, if she wants to.

Dr. Janice Stein: When she feels like it.

Adm. Rob Bauer: Yeah, if she feels right. Yeah.

Dr. Janice Stein: Somebody asked me once whom I reported to and I said I don't really understand the question. (Laughter) And it's been a wonderful strategy, frankly. (Laughter) Can you tell us, Admiral Bauer, what you've done and let me, let me just, I had a few minutes to talk to Admiral Bauer about this extraordinary fellowship that has been assembled by the Halifax Security Forum, and he's going to be an interlocutor. So over to you Admiral Bauer.

Adm. Rob Bauer: Well first of all, I think we didn't select Elanor to be the Defence Cyber Commander because she is a woman, but because she is the best for that job, and because she thinks differently, and in terms of diversity, it's not only about men and women, it's also about the way you think. It's, so it is a much brighter issue, broader issue.

For Fiona's point, I grew up in a family with a mother working and a father working and my wife is working and we never had the debate about, you know, you're not working when we have children. We worked around it together and we solved those problems and as far as I'm aware, the children are relatively happy (laughter) and, and are doing well. So actually until the moment I became Chief of defence, I sort of was not unaware, but I was not truly thinking about it as an issue. But when I talk to the troops and when I visit the, the mission areas and when I talk to people from different minorities, they come to me and actually share their stories and sometimes they are horrendous, they are horrendous stories about what they are encountering.

And it's not only women, it is the Muslim guy in, which is the minority in a group, and as a result of those talks, I was sort of awakened, I think. So that was during my last two years in the job.

On Friday we had lunch in, with, with this fantastic group of women, and one of the sad things actually, when I listened to all of them, was when they stated to say things like okay, the question was, and I think Jonathan asked the question, you know, ladies , what are you going to do different when you come home? And many, and there were different variations, but many said things like I am no longer trying to fit in. I am no longer going to be apologetic. And I thought that to be actually a sad thing.

Dr. Janice Stein: It is.

Adm. Rob Bauer: That so many years into their careers, you need a course in Canada to come to that conclusion. So we are doing not very well in terms of inclus-, inclusiveness and in terms of diversity when that is the case. So that is actually something that fires me to, to work on it further. There's all sorts of practical things going on in the Netherlands, but I won't to talk about that. What I, what I will actually do when I come home, I want to walk the talk, so to say.

So I have suggested that when these women leave Halifax, they will stay in touch with each other. So that's good. Friends for life, probably. But wouldn't it be a great idea if these women come back together next year, not here, but in Europe because they have been confronted with the US and Canadian perspective on security issues, which is great, but there is more in the world, so what I will do is when I come back, I will write my colleagues, the Chiefs of Defence, in Europe that have participants in the course and I will take the initiative to set up that week, let's say, iss-, a week of meetings in Brussels so they can be talking to people in NATO and the EU, maybe visit a couple of capitals to hear the national perspectives, and we will set up the course before the next Halifax International Security Forum so when they return as alumni, they can talk about that.

Dr. Janice Stein: That is just (applause), that is just great.

If I can just make a personal comment before we go to the room, first of all thank you, thank you I think for the people who conceived the (inaudible) of this fellowship and it's exactly what it is about. It is about walking the walk, broadening it, making this something that becomes integral. So that's just great news. Here's the really bad news. The fellows elected me as an honorary fellow. (Laughter)

Unidentified Male: You're more than welcome. (Laughter)

Dr. Janice Stein: Get ready —

Unidentified Male: You're not that big, so you can come along. (Laughter)

Dr. Janice Stein: — get ready Brussels, as they say.

Questions from the room. We, yes, Scottie Greenwood right over there, in the second row. Perfect. Yes.

Question: Thank you so much. First of all, thank you Janice Stein, you're an icon. It's great to see you here today. Thank you. Thank you for your leadership.

Just, just an idea actually for the organizers of this spectacular peace and security event, which is really important in the world and important for what we're doing; one idea, and I haven't calculated, but if you would look through the program at the number of people that are speaking and moderating, figure out what the ratio is. I haven't done the math this year, but it's 70% men, 30% women, something like that, and just in all future years, flip it. That's my idea. (Applause)

Dr. Janice Stein: Okay. There's a hand right there. I'm just going to work my way around the room here. Yes.

Question: Hello, I'm (inaudible) from Mexico. I just wanted to add to the conversation because it hasn't been mentioned, that gender inclusiveness is a predictor of peacefulness in countries. And there's a, just recently, very recently, published a Women, Peace and Security Index. since we're talking about peace, the Women, Peace and Security Index by the Georgetown university, published for the second year, shows very, very strongly that gen-, with the number of, of gender inclusiveness indicators, that the more gender inclusiveness there is, a country is, tends to be more peaceful.

Dr. Janice Stein: Thank you for that, (inaudible). That's a very interesting study for people to look at. Yes, right here on the aisle.

Question: Heather Hurlburt, from New America in Washington.

Dr. Janice Stein: Hi Heather.

Question: First, I want to congratulate Halifax and Peter and the fellows and the panelists and the Ministry of Defence for showing how it's really hard to do this work and it's hard to get it right, and sometimes it's hard to get it right the first time and I think we all agree that in the end, this panel really got it right. So congratulations. (Applause)

Second, thank you very much to the panelists for sharing particular ideas on how you're going to take this forward because, of course, it's really nice to sit here and feel good on a Sunday morning. And those of us who are of an age to have experienced these kinds of challenges for much of our careers would really like to see younger folks not go through them again. So I'd like to add one specific idea to the mix of Rosa Brooks sitting over there.

And perhaps some other Halifax participants and alumni and I are part of an effort called the Leadership Council for Women in International Security in the United States. Our first effort was to get bipartisanly all the US presidential campaigns, except one I'm sorry to day, to pledge to work toward gender parity in their national security advisors and hires and very much to follow on, on Scottie's point, I think that's an effort that we could see taken up elsewhere as well. And Rosa and I and others would be delighted to, to share thoughts and share strengths.

Dr. Janice Stein: That's really great. Thank you Heather and Rosa, and this started in the United States where there are national security – we've actually had several women national security advisors, but I think it would be wonderful to broaden this out to more countries because these institutions matter in Canada and they matter in Europe, as you've just said, Admiral Bauer. So let's really be intentional about that. That would be great.

Yes?

Question: Hi. My name's (inaudible). I'm a former Dragoon, and – which is armoured officer in Canada – and personal anecdote followed by a question; so I had an exceptional leadership failure and it came from being an authentic and I think it was because I was trained how to be a leader by people who are unlike me. And I tried to replicate that. So I'm wondering what you're doing in your institutions to train leaders to not just be the leaders that you currently have in these chairs wearing uniforms, but being authentic as a female leader or as an introverted leader – Elanor and I had a conversation about that – and bringing through that in your leadership training so that we don't end up with leadership failures that I experienced.

Dr. Janice Stein: That's a great question. Jody and then Jon.

Jody Thomas: So I think there's a couple of things there. Number one, anybody who's senior in their organization, by definition, is different. Right? They don't fit in. They think differently, they do things differently. And so the concept of fitting in is one we impose upon ourselves because we see something and we think we need to be like them. And I have a similar failure for a similar reason early in my career. So on the civilian side of the department, and it's actually bled into the military side of the department, I am doing town halls, coffee talks, mentoring.

I bring the military leaders in Defence to come and talk to a swath of women in particular, as many as we can reach, about being themselves, how to lead, what resilience is, how to find both sponsors and mentors because we know that women are mentored and men are sponsored. That word sponsorship matters. I wouldn't be in this job if some men hadn't sponsored me cause five years ago, there was absolutely no way anybody would have seen me as the Deputy Minister of National Defence.

So it is about those of us, cause there is no, there is no checklist on how to teach somebody to be a leader. But I maintain that by definition, leaders are very different people who don't necessarily fit in and often have struggles in their careers for just that reason. And it's okay. That's a really good thing. And I think we have to teach women in particular that failure is not a resting place. A step forward and two steps back, you are judged by how you respond and recover. The grace is in the recovery, not in the whatever event took you to a place that didn't go well. And it's okay because part of being a leader is how you respond and rebound and what your resilience is.

And so I think it is a, it's a constant message and it is about being intentional. And I think that we have to start looking at how we promote women differently. We tend to promote women on what they've accomplished and we tend to promote men on potential. That's a huge difference. So we have to be intentional about looking at people, understanding their careers and it all takes way more work for leaders and managers. That's our job.

Dr. Janice Stein: Yeah. (Inaudible) on Jody's comments, somebody put it to me: some people get promoted on their job interview, other people get promoted on their performance. That's an issue. General.

Gen. Jonathan Vance: Thanks Leah, (ph) good question, good to see you. Yeah, authentic leadership, it's a, it's a big issue right now. We are facing some significant changes in how conflict and warfare are effectively and correctly prosecuted in the future. Warfare is changing. The essential nature of contest isn't about how we do it, with what tools, for what purpose.

Right now, the thing that I lack the most in my General Officer and, it's not because they're not good, but in my officer corps, is creativity. Because we tend to be driven into templated thinking, and templated thinking works well when you're under stress on face training, but it does you zero good when you're actually facing a thinking enemy that's, that's coming at you, and whether that thinking enemy is coming at you in cyberspace or in space or right there in front of your eyes, the way we train people is to pit our strength against their strength. And that's a failure from the get-go. You don't, you don't even have a chance at winning.

And so, what we've got to do and so I've launched a professional military education review of, -- you know, at the same time as we do that review, we have to be certain and this is, you know, Wayne Eyre and Chris Whitecross and others that are helping me do this is, you know, how are we going to fight? Like, how are we actually going to fight in the future for this country with allies or alone, if we have to? And once we get that, I think we'll be able to start to inspire or as we do that, we'll inspire our, the people that write the books and ourselves to recognize that, you now, officers and seniors NCOs, senior NCOs is a big deal too, need to be trained such that they don't follow templates.

Dr. Janice Stein: Thank you.

Gen. Jonathan Vance: And that they are capable of (inaudible).

Dr. Janice Stein: Thank you. I am getting desperate signals from the timekeepers here. One last comment to Admiral Bauer.

Adm. Rob Bauer: Well, I think it is, it is a difficult thing, but at the same time, you cannot be teaching someone authentic leadership. It is about giving space for people to be who they are and then stumble and be picked up again, as you said. But I think in general, the wars will never be won by people that used old ideas. So you need people who think differently to change the organization, to change the ways we do our business and therefore, you need people to, to believe that, that being different is actually something that is right, that that is actually something that is okay, that it is being sought, basically. And that is a leadership issue that you, that you show that being different is actually good. And I think that is important.

Gen. Stephen Wilson: The last thing we want is (inaudible). Right? we want this diversity that's going to make us better. We don't want people educated, trained, experienced the same way and to conform. This diversity goes across, it's, again it's what 's going to make the new ideas, the new way of thinking that's going to make the teams better. And it's, what Jody said, it's got to start with culture and we've got to be able to drive that from the youngest level that it's okay to be different and to bring your ideas forward and to listen to those ideas and to empower people. That's what's going to make us be better.

Dr. Janice Stein: I want to thank all five of you for being such great contributors to this panel. I really appreciate it. But before you applaud, I want the 11 Fellows to stand. They are just exemplary leaders. (Applause) Thank you all again. Thank you.

(Applause)

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