UTAH VALLEY UNIVERSITY Utah Valley University Library George Sutherland Archives & Special Collections Oral History Program
Utah Women’s Walk Oral Histories Directed by Michele Welch
Interview with Karen Ashton by Haley Madison November 12, 2015
Utah Women’s Walk
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Karen Ashton
Interviewer: Haley Madison
Place of Interview: Karen Ashton’s Home Orem, Utah
Date of Interview: 12 November 2015
Recordist: Michele Welch
Recording Equipment: Zoom Recorder H4n Panasonic HD Video Camera AG-HM C709
Transcribed by: Kristiann Hampton
Audio Transcription Edit: Kristiann Hampton
Reference: KA = Karen Ashton (Interviewee) HM = Haley Madison (Interviewer) MW = Michele Welch (Director, Utah Women’s Walk) KAS = Karen Acerson (Karen’s Ashton’s assistant)
Brief Description of Contents:
Karen recalls her early years growing up in the Cottonwood area of Salt Lake City, Utah. It was there, she maintains, that she developed and learned to love nature in all its beauty. She shares her joy in being a woman and a mother to her eleven children. She also shares her love for her husband, Alan Ashton, and her love for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She mentions the blessings she received serving on the Young Women general board of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. She describes how she came to found both The Timpanogos Storytelling Festival and Thanksgiving Point, located in Lehi, Utah.
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as uh and false starts and starts and stops in conversations are not included in this transcript. Changes by interviewee are incorporated in text. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets. Clarifications and additional information are footnoted.
Audio Transcription
[01:10] Beginning of interview
HM: My name is Haley Madison. Today is Thursday, November 12, 2015, and I am at the home of Karen Ashton in Orem, Utah, interviewing her for the purposes of the Utah Women’s Walk. We will be talking about Karen’s life and her contributions to life in the state of Utah. Thank you for having us.
KA: I am thrilled to be here. Thank you.
HM: Well, let’s start with your background information—where you were born and grew up and went to school.
KA: Well, I am the oldest of five children. My father’s name is Carl E. Jackman, and my mother’s name was Edna Christiansen. And I think being the oldest of five is a push towards independence always. I lived, for the very early part of my life, up in the Cottonwood area of Salt Lake, and then moved to Murray as I was in my elementary school grade. And I think that living in the Cottonwood area was food for the imagination because it was so beautiful always, and I think it probably was an important part of my life.
HM: So you have four younger siblings?
KA: I have four younger siblings.
HM: Boys? Girls?
KA: I have two sisters and two brothers, and I was twelve when my youngest sister was born—so just old enough to be a really good babysitter.
HM: Do you have any important memories from your childhood?
KA: Well, as I said, growing up in the area of the Cottonwood area of Salt Lake was so beautiful. And I think nature played a huge part in my early years. And there was such, as they say, a scope for imagination there. At probably about the age of almost eight we moved to Murray, which at that point was a gathering place for so many young men who had served in World War II and their families. So these families came from all over with so many backgrounds. We had people from Greece. We had people from all kinds of backgrounds, and that was huge for me because I got to appreciate the fact that not everybody is the same or comes from a cookie cutter background. So I actually think that was very important to me in my growing up years.
HM: Is there an experience from growing up that you think prepared you for what you’ve done later in your life besides meeting people from different backgrounds?
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 2
KA: Give me a second to think about that for just a minute. Do you know, I would honestly have to say that I don’t believe there is ever one single event—that it is the collection of events that makes up a life so rich. And certainly the opportunity to see the varied backgrounds from all of the young people that I played with, and that lived on my street, made a huge difference to me. And the fact that I wasn’t always the center of attention there—in fact, if anything, I wasn’t the center of attention, and I longed to have good friendships and be with people in a meaningful way. I do remember one time that somebody had said they didn’t want to be my friend, and I remember thinking, Well that’s a big mistake because I’m a great friend and having me would be a great resource in your life. I do remember thinking that. That’s probably a silly girly thing, but I still believe I’m a good friend. You should have me as a friend.
HM: I like that. Were there women that you admired when you were growing up?
KA: I think—I come from a background—my mother was a very strong individual, and I have thought about that so many times. In many people’s lives their mother is the primary source of information about mothering and womanhood for them. I was always on the look out for other women that I could emulate and be like. Mom and I had an interesting relationship because she was so strong and because I am too. I think we were kind of battling for the turf sometimes; although, I love her dearly, and she was, for me, a saint— and I am grateful, but I was looking for other women constantly, and I was finding them. And they weren’t the women that the world would have looked to. They weren’t especially beautiful physically, but they had a strong impact in their own area and sphere.
HM: How did you meet your husband?
KA: I was attending Brigham Young University, and he was attending the University of Utah. It was very unlikely for two people to come together with those backgrounds, but—and he lived in a very prominent family on the east side of the state, and I lived almost on the wrong side of the tracks—not quite, but very close. And so the chances of us ever coming together are pretty slim, but we met on a blind date. We had some of our—I had a friend, and she was dating his brother, and they set us up. And I think I knew from the very beginning that I had met my match. He’s a brilliant man and after forty-seven years, almost forty-eight, I can say, quite truthfully, that I am never bored being with him. I still find him intellectually stimulating and spiritually stimulating in every way.
HM: What were your early married years like?
KA: We were a financially struggling family. I remember that it was more difficult for him than for me. When he would finish making out the checks every month, he would just be in despair because we would be so low in our bank account. And for me, it was such a change because in my family we were always borrowing from Peter to pay Paul—in my lifestyle when I was growing up. So I finally had to take over the finances for the family to save him from that kind of agony, and I felt great if we had eight dollars left at the end of the month. If we had paid all our obligations, I felt like we were in great shape.
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 3
HM: So you have eleven children?
KA: I do have eleven children.
HM: How has being a mother influenced your life?
KA: Well, everything I’ve done, I think, ultimately is for them. People ask me all the time, Why did you do this? Why did you do that? I think it has everything to do with them. I loved my babies. I loved the experience of being a mother. It was not the thing to say that you wanted to do when I was a young person. The world was full of—and I think in some ways it still is—what are your career moves for women? And to openly say that your desire—the desire of your heart was to mother in a remarkable fashion was not considered the appropriate thing, and I loved being a mother. And I found in that the most creative avenues that I believe exist. It was the hardest work I have ever done, and I’ve done some remarkable things, but I do not know another thing as physically exhausting, as emotionally exhausting, [and] as spiritually exhausting as being the mother of eleven children.
HM: What were the hardest parts, about not only being a mother, but with so many children— such a large family?
KA: Well, quite honestly, we were living on a limited income. We loved what my husband was doing. He was a professor, but that doesn’t pay a lot of money. And we were on— we were expecting our eighth child when I thought, I don’t know how we are going to manage to take care of all of them. And it was a constant pleading thought to the heavens to help us realize some new source of income, and we were blessed to be able to have that happen to us. It was a wonderful business decision on behalf of my husband that allowed us to be able to take care of not eight, not nine, not ten, but eleven children, and now fifty-nine grandchildren.
HM: Wow! And what have been the blessings and the good parts about having a large family?
KA: It’s so full of diversity. I have eleven children, and as every mother will tell you, no child is anything like another child. And so, as they come into your family, and you watch them blossom, it is a remarkable experience to see a life unfolding in front of you with all of it’s possibilities and all of its limitations and with what mortality does. It’s—I’m searching for the word, and I can’t find it because it’s too big. It’s too big a word to describe what you get to see when you have that many people in a family. And it’s total and absolute chaos sometimes.
HM: So I have heard that you take your family on a trip every year—what have been the highlights or the best memories from that?
KA: Well, early on, we would have to go in a very conservative way wherever we were going—maybe it was camping up to Payson Lakes in Utah and getting muddy and dirty
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 4 from being in the water, but we were together, and that was the most important part, and we shared that memory. And now, years ago, I looked at films of Christmas and decided that all of that stuff was gone, but the memory was the most important thing. So we decided to stop giving Christmas gifts and to start giving this trip every year to our children and their children, and we have had remarkable experiences all over the world. Our youngest children were blessed to see London and Switzerland and Canada, and some of them, the Far East. It’s been a remarkable opportunity, but we did the same thing when we didn’t have very many resources. We took them with us.
HM: What has been your favorite trip that you’ve been on?
KA: Do you know, I am always looking for favorites or absolutes, in some way or another. I can’t say that because every—we’re in a different stage of development, and every trip is a different experience for us, so they’re all amazingly fun.
HM: What do you have planned for this year?
KA: We just finished a trip to Cape Cod with just our older children. I am planning a trip to go back to Massachusetts. I don’t know exactly how many will go with me or exactly when I will go, but I have found that my family roots are back there for hundreds of years. And I want to go back to upper-state Massachusetts, and I want to go in to Maine, and I want to go to Acadia National Park and have a great time. So that’s what I’m planning.
[14:15]
HM: Do you have a particular person that you feel has influenced or mentored you?
KA: No, like I said, I am so open to looking at other people. And I’m taking little pieces of everyone’s life and saying, I like this, I like that. Of course, my very deep spiritual roots are the most important things to me. Everything has to do with my relationship [with] God, and so all other things are extraneous to that.
HM: With your husband you made plans to build a destination for families in Utah at Thanksgiving Point.1 What has been the process of seeing that dream become a reality?
KA: It’s been very exciting; it’s been very creative. We are thrilled about what’s happened, and we would like more and more people to come. When we began, my thoughts were to give thanks to God and to the amazing people in this community who made it possible for us to do so well and be able to take care of our family. And I wanted to provide for them some of the fun that they had provided for me and my family. So that’s the genesis for Thanksgiving Point. It began with a difficult period in my life when—after the birth of my last child I experienced what is called postpartum depression—not to the degree that I couldn’t function or take care of my family, but to the degree that I was truly suffering in my heart and my soul. And I came to understand the connection I have with nature, and I
1.Thanksgiving Point Institute is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit farm, garden, and museum complex that draws upon the natural world to cultivate transformative family learning.
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 5 wanted other people to have a place to go when they hurt, and find solace there and peace. And in this busy place, a garden seemed to be a very good idea.
HM: I know that’s been—that’s where your heart is obviously. Do you have—you don’t have favorites, but do you have a favorite area in the garden?
KA: Nope, it depends on what is going on in my life at the moment. I love the Secret Garden because it’s just buried in the heart and the middle of everything, and you have to go out of your way to find it. Of course I love the new Light of the World gardens. They are so expressive of my deep testimony of the Savior Jesus Christ, so I love that. But just acres of grass and trees—for many children in the state of Utah, they never see anything like that. So for me it’s a chance to think big and fill my lungs with wonderful air and just look at the beauties of the earth.
HM: So you have built the [Timpanogos] Storytelling Festival from an idea, and now it’s one of the largest in the United States. What were the early days of the festival like?
KA: The reason for the festival was to gain support for building a children’s library in the city of Orem. We did not have an area—well, the children had been relegated to the basement. There were no heating ducts in the basement. There were no emergency exits in the basement, and worst of all, there was no bathroom in the basement. So the children were down there for a story time, and if anybody had to use the bathroom, we had to essentially stop the story time and go upstairs and take care of that and then have them come back down. So we were in need of a children’s library. And they told us—the city did—if we could raise five hundred thousand dollars we could begin the process of getting the children’s library. And then a couple of years down the road they would be able to fund the rest with monies that were currently going to the rec [recreation] center. So our mission was to get the beginning monies. So we were coming up with bake sales and home tours and all the things that you think about. And then I was on a plane trip back to Washington D.C. and read about a storytelling festival in Jonesborough, Tennessee, and I thought, That’s the perfect answer. It would raise the level of awareness in the community. It would hopefully raise some funds, and it would hopefully be something we could use as a PR [public relations] piece to help people understand the need in the city. We began, and we raised the funds, and at the end we had this amazing storytelling festival, which is probably the second largest in the country. And probably the best run in the country. I say that thinking, Oh, my goodness. But it’s the women— it’s the women we have on our boards that’s made the difference in how well that storytelling festival functions.
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 6 HM: So, as you’ve mentioned, the gospel of Jesus Christ has played such a big role in your life, and you’ve served in a lot of callings in the LDS Church.2 How have those callings been—like your time on the Young Women’s general board?3
KA: I feel like the Lord has just been moving me along and teaching me new things and preparing me in every situation for that which lies in front of me. My time in the Young Women’s general board was significant because I love, as I have said, the unfolding of a personality. And I love watching young women reach up and reach out from where they are to develop their own feelings and talents and abilities. I love mentoring them and helping them not fall in to some of the traps which are available for them. And I felt like the Young Women’s organization was so helpful to them, to kind of lead them carefully along, and help them not make terrible mistakes.
HM: What have your learned from your service in the Church?
KA: Well, I think I learned as a very young person that God is real, and that He’s there for me. And I think if anything has happened to me, in my time, it’s that I understand that better, and it’s more firmly rooted in my heart—that I know that He’s there and I know that He’s helping us every day. I live in a river of light. I have all of my life because of the influence of the gospel of Jesus Christ. It’s everything to me. Many years ago I tried to find a place within myself where it had not penetrated, and I realized that it was in every thought, and that when I had a thought, it was filtered through what I had come to understand and know. And that when I had a desire, it was filtered through that which I knew was true, and that every hope, every wish that I had, came from that understanding. I am so grateful to be alive. I had a little brush with death a few years ago [with] some cancer, and every single day I am grateful to be alive. And I’m grateful to live in a place where no one bombed my house in the evening, or where I’m not running from oppression. And I hope that my life can be of help to someone else every day. I pray for that—that my life may be productive enough and helpful enough to make a difference in someone else’s life.
HM: What were your greatest trials and triumphs while you were serving in the Canada Toronto Mission with your husband as president?4
2. The full and formal name of the LDS Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints.
3. The Young Women’s general board is comprised of Latter-day Saint women who help carry out the worldwide responsibilities and duties of the general Young Women presidency. The Young Women’s organization is the official organization for teenage girls of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
4. A mission for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a geographical area to which Latter-day Saint missionaries are assigned. Missionaries of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are volunteer representatives who engage in proselyting, Church service, and
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 7
KA: I tried to figure out where in that service I had some sacrifice because in everything I tried to do I felt so immediately rewarded that I didn’t feel like there was much sacrifice, and I wanted to make some sacrifice. I had so many friends that went so far away that their service was difficult for them. As we were ready to finish our service, they called from Salt Lake and said that the couple that were supposed to come and replace us were not going to be able to come, and would we be able to stay until they could find someone. Well, we had planned after three years to have this wonderful vacation with our family and to see again all of our children, which is very nourishing for me. And now I realized that we were not going to be able to have that happen, and for the first time I felt like I might be able to make a small sacrifice. So when my husband and I talked about it, after we hung up the phone, I said, “At last I’ll be able to make some kind of sacrifice.” And— but it was still such a small sacrifice for such an amazing blessing. I have now 537 additional sons and daughters from that remarkable experience. They are our missionaries and will be forever.
HM: So you are currently serving as the matron of the Provo Temple.
KA: I am.
HM: I know that I don’t know what that entails, and I would assume that not a lot of people know what that calling entails.
KA: I wondered, years ago, what Anna was doing in the temple when Mary and Joseph brought the Savior the first time. I still don’t know what Anna—but I honor her from the standpoint of what I see the women doing in the temple today. My responsibility is to love and care for all of the women who serve in the walls of the temple and to make sure that all that is done there, in the way of ordinances, is done according to the ways the Lord would have it done. It is such a sacred and beautiful responsibility that I do not have the language to approach talking about it in a normal situation. I live in the land of loaves and fishes. Every day there is more than we can do. Every day there is a bigger need than we can fill. And every day the Lord feeds His people and blesses them in this beautiful, remarkable place. Some days the doors can hardly close; the people stream into the temple. I am overwhelmingly grateful. I don’t know what a person does after this kind of service ever again—to approach that same kind of holy place, but I am truly grateful to be there myself.
HM: Of all the various projects and callings you’ve been involved in, what has been most fulfilling or rewarding?
KA: Well, of course, there’s that question again, what’s the best? I think that all of my service has been exactly for the moment I was at, and the place that I was at spiritually and emotionally myself. So I think I’ve been led along to help me be prepared for every place. At the moment, when I am able to do something that is significant in someone
humanitarian aid. A mission president oversees and directs the missionaries within a particular mission.
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 8 else’s life, that is the moment when I am the happiest. That is the moment—when I see a need and I am able to find a resource within myself or something, that’s what makes me happiest. There are many people who do it better than I do, but it makes me happy to be able to make a difference anywhere.
HM: Are there any words of wisdom or scriptures that you’ve lived your life by?
KA: A different one every day. (laughs) I have come to understand that revelation is fresh— that it comes to you just as you need it, that it is personal always, and that it is perishable. By that, I mean, you have to act upon it, and that is something relatively new for my understanding. So that’s why I can’t say that there is one thing because everything I’ve needed has been given me at the moment when I needed it, and only at the moment when I needed it. Sometimes I’ve had to take huge steps of faith into a spot where I didn’t know what to do next, but then the revelation would come or the inspiration—or what should I do for this child? What should I do for our home? What should I do in this capacity with young women? What should I do at the temple? Every time I was in the need, the fresh revelation came, and it was for me personally, and I needed to act upon it. So, it’s fresh, it’s personal, and it’s perishable.
HM: If you every have any free time, what do you like to do with that?
KA: I do long for those moments when I can kind of relax. I love stitching; I love making beautiful things with my hands—whether it be quilting or weaving or just anything I can do in a creative process. I really love that. And I love listening to audible books while I’m doing it because I can do two things at the same time. I can listen to the most gorgeous words or to a captivating story and stitch at the same time. So I love to do that. And I love to be with my husband. We love to go—I think our mission experience was actually transformative in our marriage because we love to go on a long ride and listen to a fabulous book—and he’s driving, so he’s doing all the work. And I’m stitching, looking at the beauties all around me and listening to a fabulous story.
HM: What would you like to be remembered for?
KA: Oh, wow. I want to be remembered by my children and my grandchildren, and if no one else remembers me I’m okay with that. When I was growing up I did not have the influence of a grandmother because of situations—distance, and other situations in my life. And so I have been trying to figure out on my own what a grandmother would do for a child. And so when I go, I want to be remembered by my grandchildren as being the most incredible, loving grammy that the whole world has ever known. I want to squish them as much as I can. I want to tell them that they’re really important people to me and to God. That’s what I want to be remembered for. I want to be the best mother and grammy that’s ever happened, and I’m kind of silly about it.
[33:25]
HM: If you’re comfortable sharing, what has been a significant—
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 9
KA: Hold on just a minute, I have to dab my eyes and—I get emotional. Okay—
HM: What has been a trial in your life that you had to overcome?
KA: Probably the depression that I suffered after the birth of my eleventh baby was huge because all of the world makes me happy. The sun coming up in the morning makes me happy. Hot chocolate on a winter day makes me happy. So when I found myself in a truly sad spot, and I couldn’t change it by something I could bring into my life, that was really difficult for me. And I remember pleading with the Lord to take it away, but now I realize that some of the most important lessons I have learned have come from that experience. When my soul hungered for light, that was difficult for me and the experience of cancer. I thought I was compassionate, but I’ve never seen suffering like I saw suffering—not on my part, but on the part of other people who were going through that particular trial. And I think both of those were extremely difficult for me, but they also were so important to me. I will never be the same person because of either of those experiences.
HM: What advice do you have for younger women in Utah?
KA: First of all, I love being a woman. I would not have chosen—well, who knows where the choice was—but I wouldn’t choose to be anything else. I think this remarkable role of the nurturer of all life—that’s what I see women as. And I don’t care that somebody else is building things or, you know, or organizing in a different way. I see this remarkable vision of women who are strong and good, and whose whole life brings life and sustains goodness in the world. I think that’s a pretty good place to be. And I would say to them, Find that place. Find where you can move forward; do good—make things better for everyone that you touch. And when you find that, you’ll find great satisfaction. I don’t know that it comes in a boardroom; maybe it can. I don’t know a lot of things. I think it can probably be in any place where you are, but find the place where you can make the greatest difference in the lives of other people. And for me—and for me, I believe that that place is in the home first and then every other place in the world. I really do believe that women can have just about everything, but I don’t think they can have it all at the same time. And I do believe that they have to prioritize their lives. And I do believe that the gift of life to another soul—to bring it in to this world requires a great sacrifice of all they have to give. So I love being a woman. I love what’s available for women in this life right now—wow, wow, what opportunities. And I salute all of the amazing women who made a change in so many lives. They are mothers. They are the mothers of all living. They are amazing women.
HM: Is there anything else you would like to have recorded about your life?
KA: Oh, I can’t think of a single thing anyone else needs to know. I am grateful to be who I am. I am grateful to be here. I think I’m here because God placed me here. I hope I’m able to do whatever He had in mind. Every day I’m asking, Is this what I’m supposed to be doing? Help me be productive today. Help my life matter to other people. That’s what I want to do.
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 10
HM: Did you have any other questions?
KA: Boy, that is way more than anybody should—
MW: No, that was beautiful, and can I follow up with a couple of things that I think we’ll need to know? Some of them are mechanics, but we just appreciate your time and your beautiful words. First of all, can we have your birthdate—the exact date?
KA: Okay.
MW: And your marriage date.
KA: Okay, boy, let’s see if I can come up with both of those. I was born December 13, 1947. I think it was a Friday. We better check. People think Friday the thirteenth is not a good day, but I actually think it’s a pretty good day. And I have loved that I was born so close to Christmas—not at first. I thought it was the plague of my life, but now I think it’s a great thing. And I was married March 15, 1968, which was the greatest day because I got to be with my husband.
HM: Where were you married?
KA: We were married in Salt Lake at the Salt Lake Temple, and it was fabulous.5 And life is really—you know, people say, Well, she’s done extraordinary things. Actually, every day is really normal. I mean, if you talk to somebody and their life isn’t in many ways really normal, I think that would be bizarre. So—
MW: Where did you attend school?
KA: Okay, I graduated from Murray High School. I was very active in student activities. I didn’t like anything that had to do with math. I apologize to every woman who loves math—and I have many granddaughters who are doing very well—but I would actually go to the other end of the building in order to go upstairs, so I didn’t pass by the math areas. I did exactly what I needed to, but I was so full of history and theater and all kinds of things like that. And I was on the yearbook staff, and I had a great time. I just loved student life, and then I attended Brigham Young University on a debate scholarship, which I was extremely grateful for. I have often had people ask me—in fact you asked me who was an influential person in my life. I have to say my debate coach and my forensics coach—he was also our speech coach—of all the people, of all the teachers, he was probably one of the most influential because he helped me learn how to analyze an argument and see it’s weak points and it’s strengths, to see two sides in every argument and to be able to express myself in a way that I feel could be influential to other people. So I’m grateful to him. I called him one day. I’m sure he didn’t even remember who I was—and just told him thank you because I thought he had been—with the amount of public speaking that I do—what an influence he has been in my life.
5. A temple is sacred building dedicated to the Lord.
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 11
MW: Would you mind giving us his name? Would that be appropriate?
KA: Well, I’d be happy to, and I don’t know how he is doing, but his name is Sam Moore. He was the debate and forensics coach at Murray High School. And I remember that he used to raise a sign at the back of the room because when I would get involved in an argument the tone of my voice would raise and the pitch would raise until I was—he called it squeaking. So he was great, and I debated on the team there and loved that. My favorite thing was extemporaneously speaking—extemporaneous speaking. And my husband will tell you I’ve been extemporaneously speaking every since. So the skills that he gave me were invaluable to me, and I’m grateful.
MW: So much of what you talk about—you just have this attitude of gratitude. Where did you learn the grateful heart? Where did that first appear in you, do you think?
KA: I don’t know. Where does the heart of gratitude come from? I don’t know what the answer to that is because how can you be living surrounded in the most beautiful world and not just think, Oh my goodness! This is a gorgeous place to be. Like I said, growing up in the Cottonwood area—trees and moonlit nights and streams and the mountains so close by, and snow and rain. I think it probably just comes from the connection with nature.
MW: When you were a young mom, with all of those little children, and your husband would have been busy with WordPerfect and developing a business like—were you—how did you cope during those years?6 What was it like to be a young mother of many children— with probably not a lot of support—or did you have a lot of extended family or neighbors and friends. How did you do it?
KA: Years ago I went to speak at a BYU [Brigham Young University] class about entrepreneurial efforts, and I talked to them about The [Timpanogos] Storytelling Festival. And one of the young men, and rightfully so, said, “Mrs. Ashton, you couldn’t have done anything with getting those sponsorships in the area if your husband hadn’t have been of such influence in the business community.” And I remember I was taken back with the question because I felt like it was fairly aggressive, and I said, “I believe you are right. I think the position my husband enjoyed in the business field at that time made a difference, and it opened the doors for me.” But I said, “You have to understand that the two of us were working together all the time, and that he would not have had any family to come home to if I had not been there doing what I did and doing it very well.”
I have never felt weak; I feel strong. And I have felt, always, that I could do the job that was handed to me. So when he began to work incredible hours, he would come home from his work at the university, and I asked him if he could please be home from 5:30 to 7:30, so that we could have dinner together, and we could begin to prepare the children for bed, and then I would take over again. And he would be up and gone again by 5:00 in
6. WordPerfect was a word processing company founded by Alan Ashton and Bruce Bastain in 1980.
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 12 the morning. I don’t know how he did it physically. I don’t know how I did it physically, but I felt capable of doing it. And I have always felt like he got a very good deal when he married me. I’m not a racehorse. I’m not a beautiful racehorse. I’m a Clydesdale, but I’m not worried about being a Clydesdale. I’m a really good Clydesdale. And he needed a job done—we both needed a job done, and I knew I could do it. And he was—the two of us together, hung in there together. That’s what I think is the beauty in a marriage—between the two of us we could make it work.
[47:03]
MW: With the grandchildren today, with fifty-nine, did you say?
KA: Yes.
MW: Fifty-nine grandchildren. Do you see them? Do you have a certain day that everybody gathers? How do you manage spreading your love for them? How do you do that?
KA: People often ask me about how I manage fifty-nine grandchildren, and I can’t blame them because there are days when I wonder about it myself, but the truth is, love is never divided. It only multiplies. And I am really grateful to live really close to ten of my eleven children. I only have one child that lives out of state, which is a grief to me. I’ve been trying to get her back for years, but her husband has a wonderful job in the state of Texas, but the rest of them live within thirty minutes. So once a month we have a big family birthday party where we sing happy birthday to all of these people in a row, and we have dinner together, and we have a great time. And then I see them—they come through the back door. They come for tennis lessons and—we did a genius thing— without knowing that it would be—we put a swimming pool in the backyard, and it brings them home every summer. We put a tennis court up in the backyard; it brings them home every summer. It brings them here with their children to have classes and lessons, and I’ve done everything in my house to make it a really good grammy trap. I took an old bedroom downstairs a couple of Christmases ago and said, “I don’t need this for a bedroom anymore. I’m making it into an art studio.” And I filled it up with paper and pencils and glue sticks and pipe cleaners and tongue depressors. And it’s down there, and they spend hours down there. And then I made another room—something else for the girls. I took [another] bedroom to do that, so I—we’ve got a really good trap for grandchildren. And then when they come through the back door, I want to kiss them as much as I can. And this last week they were here and they were raking the leaves across the street until they had huge piles, and they were jumping into the piles of leaves. And I didn’t know that putting trees up that would drop leaves would be a good idea for grand—as a grandmother, but it’s been great! So all the simple things—a great sand pile, a slide in the backyard, [and] an Atari room in the upstairs. We have just said—in every way said, You are so welcome here. We want you to come, and we want you to stay. And then when they’re in the middle of that we’re trying to deliver all the messages—that are the most important for us to deliver to them. So that’s how I manage the grandma thing. I probably miss out. I don’t mind saying that I’ve probably missed out on some, and I feel really bad about that, but I’m doing my best.
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MW: What’s a typical day for you—right now? I know that makes—with the temple responsibility that’s probably the core of what you do.
KA: A typical day for me would depend on what time I’m going up to the temple. I look at three golden hours. I have them in the morning, or I have them in the afternoon. If I am at the temple late in the day, then I have three golden hours at the beginning that I need to use to study, to prepare. I’m trying to learn how to play the harp—don’t ask me why. I think I’m trying to get this old brain to do something new. If the three hours come in the afternoon I’ve got to use part of one to take a nap, and then I have the afternoon to walk through the yard. When I’m there early, early in the morning, which is 4:45 in the morning—when I’m there very early in the morning I take that little nap in the afternoon. And then I’m not really much good to anybody the rest of the day. I’m pretty tired, so right now the temple is what is balancing that.
When we have a few days off from the temple, I try to find a moment for myself; it doesn’t always happen, but I really try. That’s what my life is kind of like. It’s all—right now it’s all balanced on going early to the temple or late to the temple. This evening—in a few moments—I will leave to go to the temple, and I will not return until close to nine. And then I’m tired, and I need to get ready and go to bed. So actually this is my magic hour. You have it. Thank you.
MW: And we’re so grateful for it. One last question—is there anything—I can’t believe you’re taking the harp. Did you play the piano?
KA: I did play the piano as a young person. And I thought when I finished my service on the Young Women general board, I said to my husband, “I think I’ll learn to play the harp.” Well, that was crazy. I’m always trying to learn something new. One year I wanted to learn how to weave. And bless his heart, he bought me an eight-harness loom, and I took up weaving. But then I was called to do something else, and I put the loom away. And so I thought, I’m going to have some time here because I’ve spent so much time on the Young Women’s general board. I’m going to have some time here, so I’m going to take up the harp. I had a week. I had a week in between being released from that, and being called to be the matron, and having to learn all of that. But in the meantime my husband had bought me the harp. So now, during that three hour golden hours that I have either here or there, I’ve got to figure out how to practice the harp. And my teacher is amazing, and the other day I said to her—because I’ve been doing this now for several years, and I’m still on an elementary level because I said, “You are seeing a very old brain trying to do something very new, and it’s really hard for me. It is really hard for me.” So that’s— I’m still in the middle of learning how to play a few Christmas songs in a way that might be helpful to somebody else. Someday I hope I can take the harp to somebody who’s having a difficult time and play for them. That day is not yet. I am not anywhere even near that day, but we’ll see, we’ll see.
KAS: Karen, you’re spending a lot of time doing family history. Do you want to talk about that? I know that’s been important to you.
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KA: I have those three golden hours that I talked about in the morning and in the evening— I’m telling you, I have found family history—they have made it so that even a person like me can actually do this. I can do some every few days, and I’ve found hundreds of people in my family. That’s why I want to go back to Massachusetts. I found out my family was there for hundreds of years—for hundreds of years. They were there for the Revolutionary War. They are there for the Civil War—back in that area. They are so involved. I love that my family was there, and I want to go back. And I’m on the computer, and I’m doing my family history, and sometimes I’ll say, “Oh, hello Betsy!” And my husband will say, “What did you say?” I’ll say, “Hello Betsy, I found Betsy!” Or I found something else and I have to stand up and do a dance because I found somebody new. And nobody knows that. I quietly do that on my own. Unless the Church is tracking me, or somebody’s tracking me to see what I’m doing—nobody knows that I’m doing that, but it’s very fulfilling for me. I love doing it.
MW: Amazing. Is there anything else you would like to do in the future? I mean, you’ve got these broad—and you quilt. I wanted to ask about your quilting. Do you still find time to quilt, and how many quilts have you made? When do you do that?
KA: Okay, because years ago my husband had some physical problems—a little while ago, just after we began our service in the temple. And I thought, none of us knows how long we are going to get to be together, and I want to spend as much time with him as I can. Now that means a lot of education in football, basketball, and a multiple of other sports things. He loves that, and I love him. So I spend moments of time when he is watching, and I am by him. So that is when I stitch. I don’t just go sit by myself, normally. I’m sitting with him, and I’m having a moment with him and stitching, or I am—so yeah, I still get some quilting done. I get quilting done, and I get cross-stitch done. And people say, When did you find time to do this? And I think, I did it on the way to the Jazz game, and I did it on the way back from the Jazz game. And I did it watching BYU basketball. And I did it watching football playoffs. So that’s when I do it now, but I do it—actually I do it because I’m sitting right next to him.
Years ago I went in to the apartment of David O. McKay.7 My husband is David O. McKay’s grandson. And I went up there, and there were two little blue velveteen chairs, and he—when he had a moment, he would sit there. And he loved to watch football because he was one of the very first football players at the University of Utah. So he would sit there, and Emma Ray, his wife, would sit next to him. Those two chairs were symbolic of these two wonderful people who lived their life together. And then as their lives began to wind down, they found solace in sitting next to each other, and she probably watched more football than she ever wanted to. And he didn’t have that much time to do it, but when he did, he enjoyed it, and she wanted to be with him. So I decided—we don’t have two little chairs, we have a sofa, but we’re doing the same thing. So she crocheted; I knit. I cross-stitch; I do something else—anyway so, that’s what I do.
7. David O. McKay was the ninth President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. He served from 1951 until his death in January 1970.
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 15 MW: Is there anything else you would like to do? You’ve had such a full life. Is there anything you’d like to do in the future that you haven’t had time for yet?
KA: Yeah, I want to go with my husband, and I want to visit all of the national parks because I think they’re so beautiful. And I want to go back and see the historical sites. I love history. I love battlefields—of all the crazy things. I love to see Civil War battlefields. I love the stories from war because I think they bring out—it’s the beauty that they bring out that I think is inspiring—what people did to help each other during difficult times. I want to go all over the country. I’ve made a plan—that’s that I’m not going to take all eighty-three of us with us, but I’m going to go in a little motor home with my husband, and we are only going to go a little at a time. We are not becoming nomads; we have responsibilities here, but if we go away for a while—we’ll go ourselves and listen to a great book on tape. Then we’ll stop at an airport and pick up one our children and their spouse, and we will investigate that area and all of its exciting things and come to understand what happened in that area. Then we will say goodbye to that couple, and they will fly home. Then we’ll go down the road to the next place—have one of our children and their spouse fly in—like to Boston—spend a week in Boston looking at the museums and all the historical sites—eating all the really good food in Boston. Then send them out on the plane from Boston and then go up to Maine—Portsmouth, Maine. Have one of the children fly in to Maine—and their spouse because it’s so fun to be with them. They’re our favorite people. And go through Portsmouth, Maine, and out to Acadia. And that’s my plan. That’s what I’m going to do next, and I want to get to see all of those things. That’s what I want to do.
MW: That’s great. Where do you come up with these ideas? Do they just come in your golden hours, maybe?
KA: During the golden hours I am planning for something, always ahead. And I have many friends who are willing to help me plan, and I think maybe get into a bit of trouble, and I don’t mean bad trouble—I just mean something new to do. And I have to find the right little RV. I think I found it. It’s one of those Mercedes Benz vans with just the little toilet in it. I mean, just for two little old people—go off someplace, see something beautiful, have my children come. Actually we would have to have a couple come because my husband loves to play tennis, and I don’t play very well. So we need another couple at least to come, so that we can find a tennis court and play tennis together, and so we can play a healthy and vigorous game of Rummikub at the end of the day. And then we can go to the temple along the way. He promised me he would take me to all the temples. He made that promise before there were 175 of them, but he still promised it, so I’m planning on it. And that’s what we’re going to go do—going to go visit all of the national parks and all the temples. What time is it, Karen?
MW: It’s time. Can I just say thank you for the Thanksgiving Point Gardens.
KA: Oh, you’re so welcome.
Utah Women’s Walk: Karen Ashton 16 MW: It was been a glorious place for us—for our family, and the place where the idea of the Utah Women’s Walk really came to be formed. And so your desires to bless others [have] been remarkably fulfilled in my life, so I thank you.
KA: I am grateful. Thank you for telling me. When people come up and say, Oh, we had so much fun with our grandchildren out at the Museum of Natural Curiosity, I think, They couldn’t say a nicer thing to me because that’s why it’s there. You know, thanks for helping my family have a great time. Here’s something for your family to have a great time. Anyway, it’s been a wonderful life.
MW: Well, you have created a beautiful, wonderful life that’s blessed a lot of people. Thank you for that. I am grateful that you are kind of our last—it’s only right and proper that you are our final of the one hundred interviews.
KA: Oh, there you go.
MW: So, it will continue. There’ll be more, but it’s only right that it’s you, so thank you.
KA: Well, I’m excited that you are going to talk to Elaine Clyde and see what they’re doing because I think they’re hoping to archive in their library a lot of things. Anyway, it’s a wonderful life.
MW: We will definitely do that. Thank you, Karen.
KA: You’re so welcome.
[01:04:32] End of interview
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