Episode 7 Into all the world PRESIDENT DUNN-ARMENIA

REED NIELSEN: Hello I’m Reed Nielson and I’m an assistant professor of Church History and Doctrine at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah, where I teach on the Global Church. Today I’m interviewing President Ron Dunn or the Armenian Everon Mission. President Dunn, thanks for being with us today. PRESIDENT DUNN: You’re welcome, it’s my pleasure. REED NIELSON: Well tell us about your Mission Call, President of Armenia, what was your thought? PRESIDENT DUNN: Well, I actually knew where Armenia was. [LAUGHTER] Most Americans are not too familiar with where Armenia is. And quite frankly, I was really excited when President Monson called us and told us that Armenia was where we would be heading. REED NIELSON: Did you have any previous tie to Armenia or background or understanding of Armenia? PRESIDENT DUNN: Well one of the folks that I worked with in Utah, had done a couple of Humanitarian projects in Armenia. He is an eye surgeon, and he has been over there teaching Armenian surgeons how to do eye surgery. And so I was aware of some of the things that the Church was doing in Armenia. REED NIELSON: Well I know we have done a number of Humanitarian projects including the wonderful work of our private individual, John Huntsman with concrete plants and other things that have raised the profile of the Church in remarkable ways. As far as the history of Armenia goes, as I teach the International Church, this is one of the more interesting areas I believe. It began back in the Turkish mission when in 1894 when an Armenian actually living in Constantinople actually contacted the Church office and said “Hey send some Church missionaries over here, we’d like to be involved”. And at that point as you are well aware, Elder Jacob Spory arrived in December 1894 and began to teach and baptize a number of members there in Armenia. Four years later Frederick Heinz, who is often considered as the father of the Armenian Mission. He came over to Armenia and was able to find success as well. I know that during World War I there were some problems in Armenia and some major problems with the Church over there. We had to get some of the Church members out; I know the Church raised some major funds to help these Armenians to be relocated. And Joseph Booth who was President of the Turkish Armenian Mission, he was able to help in behalf of the First Presidency. But if you could tell

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us about some more recent Church History. How long has the Church been in Armenia and what kind of presence to we have there today. PRESIDENT DUNN: The Church in Armenia actually had its first precedence, as you indicated, after the earthquake in 1988 when John Huntsman got involved and he had some Humanitarian missionaries that were involved in that cement plant and so forth. And as a result of that the Church was able to receive official recognition and was registered as an official entity shortly after that time. It was in 1991 that Elder Russell M. Nelson and Dallin H. Oaks of the Council of the Twelve, visited Armenia, on June 24, 1991 they blessed the land and the people and dedicated Armenia for the preaching of the Gospel. And it was about eight years later in July of 1999, that the Armenian……………Mission was officially created. Prior to that creation it had been part of Missions in Turkey and in Russia and part of the Bulgarian Mission. But it was 1999 that it was officially created, so this is our ten year anniversary coming up and we are getting ready to celebrate 10 years of the creation of the ………..Armenian Mission. REED NIELSEN: Congratulations, what an exciting time to be in that part of the world. In fact you mentioned that when you got your call that you knew were Armenia was. Most Latter-Day Saints know that it is in the Middle East, by Turkey, but tell us a little bit more about the geographic local there. What are the bordering countries and tell us about the culture of the people, if you would please. PRESIDENT DUNN: Let me just say beforehand that we actually have Armenia and Georgia as part of this Mission. We have both countries, Armenia is neighbored by Iran, Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Georgia. So you can see we have some interesting neighbors. We’re about 7,000 miles from Salt Lake, about 400 miles from Bagdad and about 400 miles from Taran, so it is a very interesting part of the world, you might say. One of the interesting things also about Armenia is that it is a Christian country. As a nation it embraced Christianity and it became a National religion in about 301 AD. They are very proud of that and that has been part of their problem historically, because their neighbors have not always been real fond of the fact that there was a Christian Nation right in the middle of where there were a lot of Muslim people living REED NIELSEN: When you think of the Middle East you don’t think of Christian Nations per-se do you? PRESIDENT DUNN: It’s interesting also that Georgia followed Armenia and in 305 AD embraced Christianity as their National Religion as well, so both countries that we have a long history of Christianity. And in some ways it makes it a very interesting place to be and to do Missionary work.

REED NIELSEN: Now President Dunn you mentioned that both Armenia and Georgia and both under the responsibility of the Armenian Mission, is that correct?

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PRESIDENT DUNN: That is correct. REED NIELSEN: And tell us about how many missionaries there are in both countries. And in fact if you tell us how it’s broken down in how many men, women, couples, junior missionaries. PRESIDENT DUNN: I’d be happy to. In Armenia we have 38 full time missionaries, eight of those are sisters. We have four couples serving in Armenia. In Georgia we have 8 young full time missionaries and two couples serving. So you can see it’s a very small mission both geographically and in numbers.

REED NIELSEN: And these missionaries when they are called are called directly to your mission. What languages do they learn as they prepare to come over and teach the Gospel? PRESIDENT DUNN: They go to the MTC for 12 weeks to learn Armenian, then those who are called to Georgia as of last year, Georgia is being taught for the first time in the MTC. So they learn Georgian and Armenian. Georgian and Armenian are two different languages, two different alphabets, no similarities what so ever. Most of the people here in both countries speak Russian, Both Georgian and Armenia were a part of the Soviet Union. And in 1991 when the Soviet Union collapsed, both Georgia and Armenia withdrew from the Soviet Union, declared their independence and became sovereign nations. So we actually have four languages here within this mission, English, Armenian, Georgian, and Russian, all different alphabets, all totally different languages. So it makes it very interesting but at the same time very challenging. REED NIELSEN: And as a President how do you get around and visit all these areas and communicate with missionaries speaking these different languages and Church members. PRESIDENT DUNN: Well because of the diversity of the cultures and languages I use a translator almost all of the time. I studied Russian for a time in high school and Brigham Young Young University when I was there. But that was a long time ago and I have forgotten most of it. I know it enough to kind of find our way around, but we end up using missionaries, and local Armenians and Georgians to help do the translation. REED NIELSEN: I see. Tell us about the Armenian people and the Georgian people for that matter what are they like, how would you describe them to listeners outside of the Middle East. PRESIDENT DUNN: Armenia has some of the friendliest people that you would ever want to meet. We’re not allowed to proselyte in Armenia; we do not knock on doors. We meet people just casually on the street and in other places where they will ask questions and we are allowed to answer questions. They are very friendly, they are very inquisitive, and they want to know about the United States. They want to learn English. They are very surprised when our young missionaries are able to speak so fluent in their language. Armenians have a great deal of pride as it relates to their Christian heritage, they think of that and they are very proud of that. They are also very effected by genocide that you alluded to in the first part of our conversation, where

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in the 1880s and 1890s were about 1.2 million Armenians were systematically killed and the pain that they feel about that. They’re greatly affected by the earthquake that took place in 1988 where some 80 thousand Armenians were killed and 500,000 were left homeless. So they have had a lot of adversity, and they know what it means to have a hard time. The economy is difficult here, unemployment is high but in spite of that, the people here are good people and very friendly. One of the other interesting things about Armenia is that there is about a 99 percent literacy rate, everybody knows how to read and how to write. One of the interesting things is that Mount Ararat, which is a very prominent mountain here about 17,000 feet in elevation, is mentioned in Genesis as the place where Noah’s ark came to rest. REED NIELSEN: Right. PRESIDENT DUNN: Ararat is currently in Turkey. But before borders were rearranged it was in Armenia. About 95 % of the Armenian people are members of the Armenian Apostolic Church. They are a friendly people, a giving people, we love them. Georgia is also a great place. Christianity began there as I mentioned in about 305 AD and about 80 % of the Georgians belong to the Georgian Orthodox Church. Georgia was also part of the former Soviet Union. And Georgia has been part of a prized geographic location due to its strategic position on the Black Sea. They have natural resources and so their economy has been somewhat better than in Armenia. They also have about a 99% literacy rate, and Georgia has been in the news here, last August there was a war between Georgia and Russia and incidentally during that time we withdrew the missionaries for a period of about 3 months, and they are back there. We love the Georgian people, they are good people and once you get to know them, you just have to love them. REED NIELSEN: Well it sounds like good people in both countries both Armenia and in Georgia. You mentioned something that I want to talk about, just briefly. You mentioned you are not allowed to proselyte in Armenia. Could you tell us a little bit more about the prohibition, and is that the same in Georgia as well? PRESIDENT DUNN: In Georgia we have no limitation proselyting can go door to door, we can stop people on the street and talk to about the Church. Part of the Charter that we have that allows us to have the Church as an enmity in Armenia, that we will not proselyte per-se; we are able to answer questions. We are able to make arrangements to come to their home to teach the Gospel there. Quite frankly is has not been a problem for us, Armenians are so friendly and inquisitive, they just want to know. And the mission has been very successful they are about 2500 members here in Armenia. REED NIELSEN: That’s a good group. PRESIDENT DUNN: We have 2 districts and 13 branches. We have had over 60 Armenians who have served in Armenia in different places. REED NIELSEN: Really? PRESIDENT DUNN: And presently right now we have 15 missionaries out in various places. So the not being able to proselyte has not really hampered our efforts much at all.

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REED NIELSEN: I see, and are the Armenian Saints themselves, are they involved in Missionary work? Are they as members doing proselyting? PRESIDENT DUNN: Yes, we have a lot of members who go out with our missionaries. We have a great need for Armenians to be called on Mini Missions, and we have a long list of individuals who would like to go serve on a short time mission. We do get a lot of referrals and it makes it a lot easier in our finding efforts. And then our missionaries, who are master teachers, can go out and teach the Gospel. REED NIELSEN: And when you say Mini Missions for the Armenians themselves what exactly is that? PRESIDENT DUNN; Well sometimes when we have an odd number of missionaries which happens a lot, we’ll ask a young man or a young woman who are preparing to go on a mission, if they have the time, to go out and serve for one or two or three or four weeks with our full time missionaries. Actually live and serve with them, just like a full time missionary. And it’s been wonderful, it’s helped them learn the doctrines of the Gospel It’s helped them understand Preach My Gospel, it’s helped them become better teachers, increase their testimonies and it’s been very effective way to teach the Armenian people. REED NIELSEN: And it sounds like you’ve have a number of Armenians who have gone on to serve full time missions, so this is a great training ground for them as well. PRESIDENT DUNN: It is. It’s worked very well. I must say that in Georgia we just had in last December our first missionary called from Georgia to serve a full time mission. And she is currently serving in London, England and doing a marvelous job there. I don’t know if I mentioned it but in Georgia we have two branches, there are about 250 members and they are doing well despite the fact that we had to leave them for three months last Fall during the war. I might mention that in Armenia we have had about 300 individuals receive their temple blessings. Most of them have gone to the Swiss Temple. We have had 10 Georgian members go to the Temple to receive their Temple blessings. And over the past few years we have received authorization from the Twelve and two traveling Patriarchs have come here on a couple of occasions and as a result we have had nearly 200 Armenian Saints and around 15 Georgian Saints receive their Patriarchal Blessings REED NIELSEN: That’s wonderful President Dunn; let’s just explain to our listeners why you would need a traveling Patriarch when you have Districts instead of Stakes. PRESIDENT DUNN: Well only stakes have Patriarchs so special authorization was given for Patriarchs to be sent to this part of the world. It’s interesting that both of the Patriarchs have served as Mission Presidents in Russia, so the blessings are given in Russian and in English, because a Patriarchal Blessing needs to be given in a language that the individual understands well. Only those members in Armenia and Georgia who speak Russian and understand Russian or in English have been given their Patriarchal Blessings. Of course we have a dream that one day we’ll have a Stake here and along with the Stake, a Patriarch would be called and they would be able to receive a Patriarchal Blessing in the Native Armenian or Georgian Language.

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REED NIELSEN: President Dunn, what excites me with this conversation is that you really are on the ground floor of the Church. There are times when I have spoken with other District Presidents and Mission Presidents around the world, the Church has been in many of these areas for decades short of oftentimes 150 years or more. For instance I had been talking with the Mission President of the Rochester Mission, his mission was obviously the cradle of the Restoration, the Church has been there since the late 1820s and was organized there in the area in the 1830s but it’s only been 10 years for your mission and you’re there seeing the Church go from nothing to having a number of districts, to persons receiving Patriarchal Blessings, to receiving Temple blessings, that must be a remarkable experience for you as a Mission President. PRESIDENT DUNN: It is a great experience. It’s just unbelievable the opportunities we have here to get to know these wonderful people who in many ways are really struggling to understand full meaning and significance of the Gospel. We’re kind of in the Kirtland period of the Church. Ten years old, we have some of the same problems that existed early on through the Restoration of the Gospel. And it provides some really unique opportunities for Sister Dunn and I to travel, we’re in a different branch every Sunday and very often we will take the full two hours after Sacrament meeting, and explain various Gospel subjects and principles in an effort to get the people to really understand the full significance of the Gospel. Our District Presidents are marvelously dedicated and wonderful family men, and we’re transitioning much of the responsibility and the teaching of the Doctrine and the procedures over to them. We are blessed to have two wonderful District Presidents who understand the Doctrine and are able to help us in this effort to get people to fully understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ. REED NIELSEN: Well as I study Church history both domestically and internationally from a North American perspective, it seems like the Lord is constantly raising up specific men and women to fulfill roles in fledgling areas of the Church, where it’s new, it’s trying to take root, trying to be strengthened. Could you share an experience or two of men or women in that area, a District or a Counselor who seem to have been raised up to do what they are doing right now? PRESIDENT DUNN: Two of our District Presidents are just remarkable individuals. Interestingly enough both of them were living and working in Russia when they discovered the Church. The joined the Church in1994 and returned to Armenia as members of the Church and have absolutely been stalwarts since that time. And they felt that even though there were many more opportunities for work and prosperity in Russia, they felt the need, a great need, a compulsion almost to return to Armenia, which they did, found wonderful, righteous spouses, and began to raise a family with the principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. They were raised up to be here at this time to move the work forward in this part of the world. My first Counselor in the Mission Presidency is likewise an absolutely remarkable man. He previously served as a District President. His son was the first full time missionary to serve a mission in Armenia. This family has made a major impact for the Church to grow and begin to flourish in this part of the world. Their testimonies are solid. They’re very, very strong, and without them this work would not be moving forward as it is.

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REED NIELSEN: I’m sure if you were to go back to your mission in about ten, twenty, thirty years from now that you would be amazed, or perhaps not amazed, you’d almost expect that these men and women that are taking the early leadership roles are going to be the future leaders of the Church as Stakes are created, wards are created, etc. in the future. PRESIDENT DUNN: There is no doubt about that, some of these young men and young women who have served missions from the Church in Armenia and then have returned back here are making major contributions to the leadership in this part of the world. That’s where the future is, with the young single adults and the youth. And we have a strong group of kids that are growing up knowing the Gospel, going on missions, and if we can keep them all in Armenia and Georgia it will really make things move forward at a much faster rater here. Unfortunately sometimes the call of maybe a better education or a call of more financial security in the United States and other places has called to some of them, and some of them have left. But those who stayed have made and will continue to make a lasting impact on the work here. REED NIELSEN: I know that this is a challenge that is faced in many parts of the world as young men and women leave their native lands as missionaries and go abroad and are exposed to some different opportunities and sort of the full program of the Church elsewhere, they really do struggle to want to go back and be pioneers in their own land and build up the Church fortunately many do, where others don’t and seek further opportunities and what have you. Do you find that your missionaries, who serve abroad, do they come back, are they satisfied with the Church in Armenia or is it a struggle for them not to have the full program of the Church without a stake, how does that work? PRESIDENT DUNN: Well it is a little bit of a struggle. They come back and they know how things should work, and when the Church is just being established, things don’t always work the way you would like them, and they become a few times a little bit frustrated, and if they have an opportunity to go somewhere else sometimes they do that. We’re always a little disappointed with that, but those who have stayed are solid and strong and are helping us a lot. We’ve had maybe as many of half of our return missionaries have gone elsewhere. And we are working hard to encourage them to stay here and build Zion. We have a man return recently from his mission in the Ukraine and within one month after he returned he was made a branch president and he is doing a great job. When I got here it was one of the goals to try and have all of the branches be led by native Armenians, and that has happened. All of the Branches now have an Armenian at the head. In Georgia we have a native Georgian serving as branch president in one of the branches, and in the other branch we have one of our Missionary Couples is the Branch President there and he has a counselor who is Georgian, and our hope is that when this couple leaves that we will have all of our branches led, presided over by Native Priesthood holders. REED NIELSEN: Well there is no question as you look at the history of the Church that when the natives members themselves take the leadership role, that’s when the Church really

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takes off when you get to the second and third generations. So I really do hope and pray that you will be able to retain those return missionaries and be able to put down strong roots in Armenia and help the Gospel to go forward. Well President Dunn I sure appreciate your time today, it’s been fascinating to learn about the Church in this far flung part of the Vineyard in Armenia. I know more about Armenia now then I did thirty minutes ago; it’s wonderful to hear what’s going on. As we conclude this interview today we would like to ask you to share your testimony with our listeners. PRESIDENT DUNN: I would love to do that. Both Sister Dunn and I both have very strong testimonies of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We have no doubt about the truthfulness of the Gospel. There is no doubt about the reality of God the Father; there is no doubt about His Son Jesus Christ and the Atonement. We’re so grateful for that, and for the sacrifices that Joseph Smith made in the Restoration and all of those who have come before us. We’re so thankful to be here in this part of the world where we are watching other pioneers grow in the Gospel and begin to see the Gospel take root and be able to grow here. We love the Gospel we love the people of Armenia and Georgia. We love our wonderful missionaries and we are so grateful to be surrounded by so many wonderful people. Our testimonies were strong when we came here and they have grown greatly over the past two years that we have served here. And we are so thankful to be a part of this great work REED NEILSEN: Well thank you president. Please tell Sister Dunn from us here in Utah. And best of luck and may the Lord’s choicest blessings be on you and your missionaries there in Armenia and Georgia. PRESIDENT DUNN: Thank you so much. [MUSIC} NARRATOR: You have been listening to Into All the World.

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