Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 19 OCTOBER 1961

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Questions [19 OCTOBER] Questions 827

Rules of the House. Responsibility in other respects rests entirely with the member who proposes to ask the question. In relation to this question, I should also mention that a great deal of responsibility concerning notice of questions to Parliament, and to Ministers, lies in the hands of the Press. It has disturbed me recently to see notices of questions published in the Press prior to their appearing on the notice paper of this House, prior to their being edited by the Clerks at the table or by myself, and prior to any answer being given by the Minister. In that connection, whilst not denying the freedom of the Press, my attention has again unfortunately been drawn to the query that raised this question this morning, the question asked by the hon. member for South Brisbane, wherein a local daily newspaper has published the question in full on a prominent page in the paper, but has unfor­ tunately published only part of the answer and that in a very obscure position in the same paper. The question appeared at page 7. The denial, as it was termed by the paper, appeared at page 52. I have repeated the Minister's answer to the question this morning in the hope that THURSDAY, 19 OCTOBER, 1961 the Press will publish the answer in full. In reference to this matter, I feel, in view of my concern that many of these questions Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. D. E. Nicholson, contain imputations of improper practice not Murrumba) took the chair at 11 a.m. only against Ministers and members of this House, but also against reputable citizens, QUESTIONS that this is a very opportune time for me to quote to the House a section of a state­ MR. SPEAKER'S STATEMENT ment made by the Acting Premier of the day in reply to an hon. member's question Mr. SPEAKER: Honourable Members: regarding question time in this House. It has been my unpleasant duty to disallow a question relating to the issue of liquor The Hon. V. C. Gair, in answer to a licences, notice of which was given by the question, raised these points- hon. member for South Brisbane yesterday. "The object of questions is to inform My reasons for disallowing the question Members of the House on matters on which are:- they seek information; the object of the ( 1) That it is my opm10n that the sub­ Press in reporting the questions and answers ject matter was adequately dealt with yester­ is similarly to inform the public, not all of day when the Minister for Justice replied to whom have access to the published Parlia­ the question stated, in the second section of mentary reports. I draw the attention of No. 2 of the answer given- Honourable Members to the fact that when "However, to remove any misconception a question is answered in this Chamber that could arise from the asking of this all Members of the House have the ques­ question I might add that, in terms of the tion before them when the answer is given, Bill at present in course of passage the Member who has given notice of the through the House, all questions of the question rising in his place and drawing the granting of licenses will be matters for attention of the House to the question on determination, not by the Minister but by the Business Sheet, indicating it by number. the Licensing Commission. Furthermore If some days have elapsed before the there is nothing in the Bill to permit the answer is tendered, an Honourable Member installation of a liquor bar in any is asked to re-state his question; finally restaurant whether licensed or otherwise." when 'Hansard' is published, the question is not printed in the Report of the Pro­ (2) That it contains inferences and impu- ceedings of the day on which notice of it tations not only against Ministers, but also was given, but of the day on which it was against a private member. answered. The question and answer are I should point out to hon. members that printed together. To do otherwise could be the Speaker's responsibility in regard to quite unfair, because questions can and questions is limited to compliance with the have been asked in this Chamber reflecting 828 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

on the integrity of individuals, as did the that, if allegations of this kind can be shown questions under consideration. To publish by a proper answer by the person concerned, the questions containing such inferences, that itself would expose to the public the disassociated from the conclusive replies degree to which some member or members subsequently given, creates the danger that have been responsible for reckless or irre­ an allegation may be made and widely sponsible statements and they would be dis­ publicised, while the refutation may never credited in the public mind, but to take away be published, or if published may never be the right to ask questions of public interest seen. The Press would do well to follow is indeed something which must be viewed Parliamentary procedure in this regard, and with very serious concern. in the interests of its readers, apart from any other consideration, to publish question On the question of Press publicity on these and answer together." matters I would point out that it may suit And, I might add, the complete answers to the Opposition, on very rare occasions, that the questions that have been asked. questions which may be expunged from the notice paper do appear in the Press but, Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ conversely, there are often occasions when Leader of the Opposition) (11. 7 a.m.): Mr. a question that has been asked by the Opposi­ Speaker, you have raised a very important tion does not appear in the Press at all, nor matter of privilege. I regret that very often even a reference to the person who asks the hon. members are placed in the position in question. For instance, yesterday I asked which I find myself this morning of not a question of very great importance, in my having been able to examine thoroughly all view, for reasons which will become apparent the implications of a very important state­ ment such as you have made. At the outset in due course, about some steel supplies to I point out that my personal desire is to Queensland, and the Brisbane "Telegraph" accord you the fullest measure of co-opera­ did not couple my name with the question at tion in seeing affairs are discussed and pro­ all, but merely gave the Premier's answer, ceedings conducted in accordance with Today "The Courier-Mail" acknowledged that Standing Orders and the high standard set by I had asked the Premier the question. this and the Mother of Parliaments. But I should like to point out, however, in regard There are other occasions when, because to some of the observations that you have of public importance, questions are addressed made this morning, that in my opinion the to Ministers by the Opposition, and the Opposition should be afforded the oppor­ courtesy of answering them in the House has tunity of ventilating a viewpoint so that it not been extended to us. They are answered may be placed on record. outside the House, and we hear about them in Parliament the following day. I concede Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I trust the hon. that in many instances that is done because gentleman is not going to debate the deletion there are certain situations where considera­ of the question. I have no objection to his tions of immediacy may justify a question making a statement, but the matter of the being answered, but very often when that deletion of the question cannot be debated. course is taken the Opposition is not given any credit for directing public attention to Mr. DUGGAN: I am dealing with the a matter of importance. Unfortunately that matter of publication by the Press of answers happens very often, and not just occasionally. to questions. I have no desire to enter into The question is asked, and we read in the any argument with you on the matter of Press that the Minister has virtually answered deletion of a question; my desire is to help the question outside Parliament. In addition, you. I am pointing out, however, that on this although at times I believe we do not subject considerable rights are involved. For receive from the Press as much help as we instance, the suggestion has been made that might expect as the Opposition, neverthe­ it would be improper to ask questions about less, I think we must be very careful to see a matter that is not contained in a Bill. A that we do not unduly restrict the Press on Bill does not become the law of the land what the Press may consider are matters of until it is passed, and, although acceptance great public importance. Nevertheless, by the Government of amendments from this aggrieved persons, if they are in the Govern­ side of the Chamber is an unlikely con­ ment, have great resources available to them tingency, amendments may be moved to the for taking proper action. While on this sub­ Liquor Acts Amendment Bill, so that tech­ ject it seems to me, without being disruptive, nically it is within the competence of Parlia­ or talking about a matter that is sub-judice, ment to amend or reject the proposal. that there is an action pending against the Minister for Transport. On the matter of imputations or reflections on the integrity of Ministers or Government Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I have given the members, I think we should get some clear Leader of the Opposition quite a deal of line of demarcation. It is wrong for people latitude. The rules distinctly state that these in a premeditated fashion recklessly to cast matters cannot be debated. I have made a aspersions on the integrity of Ministers, statement regarding the Press. I have left Government members or indeed on any it entirely open and I have said that I am member of Parliament, unless they are not attacking the freedom of the Press in reasonably well founded. I believe any way. Questions [19 OCTOBER] Questions 829

Mr. DUGGAN: I am not casting any on the basis of the Junior Public Examina­ aspersions. All I was saying is that if the tions of 1961. With the increasing numbers Minister is affected by this, the very likely proceeding to the Senior Public Examina­ possibility is that the Crown will reply, in tions a greater proportion of Teacher some cases, as they are entitled to. If the Scholarships is being offered at the Senior Crown feels aggrieved-- level." Mr. SPEAKER: Order! "(3) (a) The needs of the Department. (b) Personal interview. (c) Results in the Mr. DUGGAN: I will canvass this in another way at another time. There are Junior Public Examination. (d) Medical implications involved here. I believe that examination." important matters of this nature could well form a subject for consideration by the Standing Orders Committee, and the Com­ ACTION FOR DAMAGES BY LUIGI VOLI mittee could provide us with-- Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Leader of the Opposition) asked the Minister for Public Works and Local Government- Mr. DUGGAN: I am not engaging in a "(!) Is he conversant with the case of dog fight with you personally, Mr. Speaker, Luigi Voli, an Inglewood farmer, who v.:as and you know that. You have a very diffi­ cult job to do and I have received many injured when the stage of the Memonal courtesies from you. Hall at Texas collapsed in 1959 and who recently brought action in the Supr~me Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Court of Queensland for damages agamst the Inglewood Shire Council, the builder Mr. DUGGAN: I am not involving myself of the hall, R. H. Lockwood, Inverell, New in a personal argument with you, Mr. Speaker. It would be very grave for me South Wales, the architect, and Joseph to do so publicly and I would not do so Colin McLucas, Stanthorpe, the con­ publicly, or privately. I have received many tractor?" courtesies from you and I feel that all these "(2) If so, is it a fact, as reported in the matters of very vital importance might well press of October 3 last that although Mr. be the subject of consideration by the Stand­ Justice Brown ruled there had been no ing Orders Committee. They could calmly negligence by the builder or _by the Shir~ and dispassionately consider the implications Council his reason for excludmg the archi­ involved and come to an understanding and tect from liability for damages was that make recommendations that might meet with plans and specifications for the hall had the full approval of the House. been checked and approved by the Public Mr. SPEAKER: I have already mentioned Works Department?" in the House that I was considering calling "(3) In view of the foregoing and also the Standing Orders Committee together to of the published ruling of the Judge ('The deal witlr the whole subject of questions and, Courier-Mail,' October 3, 1961), 'The fact now that the Leader of the Opposition has that there was an intervening conscious given me the green light by indicating his agency, even though not a careful one, willingness as a member of that Committee relieves the architect from his duty of to meet, I shall take immediate action to call the members together. care towards a person such as the plaintiff with whom the architect had no con­ tractual relationship,' is it not apparent JUNIOR TEACHER SCHOLARSHIPS that Mr. Justice Brown placed culpability Mr. DUGGAN (Toowoomba West­ for the injuries received by Voli with the Leader of the Opposition) asked the Minister Public Works Department and that that for Education and Migration- Department should consider indemnifying "(!) How many Junior Teacher Scholar­ Voli in £1,531 lls. 6d., this being the ships were awarded in Queensland in 1957, amount of damages suffered by Voli as 1958, 1959 and 1960?" assessed by Mr. Justice Brown in his judg­ ment?" "(2) How many such Scholarships will be awarded in 1961 ?" Hon. H. RICHTER (Somerset) replied- "(3) On what basis will these Scholar­ "(1 to 3) I am aware of the case of ships be awarded?" Voli v. Inglewood Shire Council and Hon. J. C. A. PIZZEY (Isis) replied- Others and am informed that an Appeal to the High Court was lodged on Wednes­ "(!) The numbers of Junior Teacher day last against the decision of the Scholarships awarded were-1957, 979; Honourable Mr. Justice Brown. The 1958, 1,266; 1959, 539; 1960, 613; matter is therefore sub judice. I mention, 1961, 786." however, that the Crown is not a party "(2) It is expected that approximately to the proceedings. It was not heard and 500 Junior Teacher Scholarships to the legal advice which has been received Secondary Schools will be awared in 1962 is that the Crown is not in any way liable." 830 Questions [ASSEMBLY] Questions

MOTOR CARS SOLD BY DEPARTMENT OF driver who was the subject of the Question LABOUR AND INDUSTRY referred to, and were therefore not guilty of negligence in the eyes of the law?" Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) asked the Minister for Labour and Industry- "(3) If not, will this not infer that there is one law in Queensland for car drivers "With reference to his reply to my Ques­ who fall asleep when in charge of a moving tion on Tuesday, October 17, concerning vehicle and another law for railway drivers the purchase and sale prices of cars bought who fall asleep when in charge of a moving - for the Department of Labour and Indus­ locomotive?" try, what was the average age of (a) Ford Falcon cars sold and (b) other makes of Hon. G. W. W. CHALK (Lockyer) cars sold?" replied- "(1 to 3) In any instance in which a Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha) railway driver has been dealt with in replied~ connection with an occurrence considered "The Honourable Member will have to have been due to his having gone to noted from the answer to his question sleep, the driver concerned would have had on Tuesday last that a total of 268 vehicles the right of appeal to the Railway Appeal was sold. To obtain the additional Board, the Chairman of which is a information he now seeks will entail the Stipendiary Magistrate. Had the circum­ examination of 268 separate files, and it stances been such as to warrant a decision is considered that the time involved in similar to that referred to by the Hon­ such examination is not warranted. ourable Member, no doubt the Magistrate However vehicles are now sold-not would have so advised the Board. necessarily at a predetermined age, but However, if perchance the Honourable before they cease to be thoroughly efficient Member has in mind a particular railway for Police work. The Honourable Member case in Townsville, I would point out to may remember that, in reply to his him that the Magistrate's comment in exaggerated comments on August 13, 1959, relation to the road incident, referred where he said inter alia that the police of to a driver who was acutally operating Townsville 'have been given two utilities a motor vehicle at the time of falling of ancient vintage and I repeat that a man asleep and, consequently, such reasoning could not apply to a railway fireman who on crutches could race them,' I refuted was reduced for twelve months to a cleaner the statement and later advised that I because during his hours of duty he was intended to ensure that all police vehicles found at mid-day asleep in the sand shed would be thoroughly efficient. That has at the Locomotive Depot." now been accomplished and the Police Department now has approximately 54 more vehicles than at that time, and all CHECK OF AXLE-LOAD OF VEHICLES USED BY operating at top efficiency." DEPARTMENT OF MAIN ROADS AND LoCAL AUTHORITIES PUNISHMENT INFLICTED ON RAILWAY LOCO­ Mr. HOUGHTON (Redcliffe) asked the MOTIVE DRIVERS Minister for Development, Mines, Main Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) asked the Roads and Electricity- Minister for Transport- "(!) Does the Main Roads Department "(!) Has his attention been drawn to check the axle-load of vehicles used by a reply made in Parliament by the Minister Semi-governmental and/ or Local Authori­ for Justice on Tuesday, October 17, to a ties?" Question by the Honourable Leader of "(2) If so, will he supply the names of the Opposition, wherein it was disclosed, the Semi-governmental and Local Authori­ inter alia, that the driver of a car, who ties that have had checks made on their falls asleep at the wheel without any prior vehicles?" warning of his inability to keep awake and in circumstances in which a reason­ "(3) Is any check made on the axle­ ably careful driver might not have been load of trucks owned by or on hire to the aware that he is likely to fall asleep, and Main Roads Department, and if so, what that in these circumstances, even if per­ is the location of the Main Roads job sonal injury to another or damage were where trucks were so checked?" caused by the sleeping car driver, would not be guilty of negligence?" "(4) If no check is made on these vehicles, why are they exempt?" "(2) As this is obviously the law in Queensland, will he remit all fines imposed, Hon. E. EVANS (Mirani) replied- re-instate those dismissed with payment of "Until recently the Main Roads Depart­ time lost and pay for all work done in an ment had only three teams of Inspectors inferior grade when such punishments were equipped with portable loadometers oper­ inflicted on railway drivers in charge of ating in the field and so their area of locomotives who fell asleep, as did the car operations was necessarily restricted. The Questions [19 OCTOBER] Questions 831

strength has recently been doubled and the the bed and banks of the Ross River to the appointees are at present being trained. The Townsville Water Authority, subject to the additional teams will enable weighing to be paramount rights of the Commissioner of carried out on a larger scale." Irrigation and Water Supply." "(1) Yes." "(2) The rights of the Commissioner include the right to issue licences for "(2) A complete record is not kept of diversion of water for irrigation and other vehicles weighed but it is known that purposes from all watercourses, but when vehicles owned by the following Local an application to the Commissioner for a Authorities have been weighed:-Boonah licence to divert water from the Ross Shire, Caboolture Shire, Gatton Shire, River is received, the views of the Towns­ Gold Coast City, Ipswich City, Johnstone ville City Council regarding the issue of Shire, Kilkivan Shire, Mulgrave Shire, the licence are sought. The last request for Townsville City, Wambo Shire." a licence for diversion from the Ross River was received in August, 1960, and a licence "(3) Yes. Such vehicles in common with to divert water for stock and domestic others are weighed at the checking points purposes was issued in that instance. By in those areas in which the loadometer the allocation of all water in the Ross teams operate. The attention of all Main River and control of the bed and banks to Roads Department and Local Authority the Townsville Water Authority, no land­ officials was drawn some time ago to the holder on the Ross River has riparian necessity for ensuring compliance with rights." the Regulations dealing with permissible loads." REMOVAL OF SAND AND GRAVEL FROM "(4) See answer to Question (3)." BARRON RIVER AT KAMERUNGA Mr. ADAIR (Cook) asked the Minister for Public Lands and Irrigation- SEPTIC SYSTEM FOR MURARRIE STATE SCHOOL "Owing to the unsatisfactory conditions now imposed on contractors removing sand Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba) asked the and gravel from the Barron River at Minister for Education and Migration- Kamerunga, will he have a responsible "When will the ever-troublesome earth officer of his Department inspect the area closet system at the Murarrie State School with a view to arriving at a suitable work­ be replaced by a septic system?" ing basis for contractors engaged in remov­ ing sand and gravel?" Hon. J. C. A. PIZZEY (Isis) replied- Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham) "Soil tests have been taken. The replied- establishment of a transpiration area will " I am not aware of any unsatisfactory be necessary for a septic installation at conditions imposed upon contractors Murarrie State School. As Plans for this removing sand and gravel from the Barron project have not yet been completed, I River at Kamerunga. In this vicinity the am unable to advise when existing sanitary Barron River is tidal from its mouth to facilities will be replaced." the tramway bridge at Kamerunga and would be under the control of the Harbours ADMINISTRATIVE CONTROL OF WATER IN and Marine Department to that point. Ross RIVER Above the tramway bridge the Barron River is under the control of the Irrigation Mr. TUCKER (Townsville North) asked and Water Supply Commission to the point the Minister for Public Lands and Irri­ where it enters the National Park, and gation- upstream from there while within the "(1) Does the Townsville City Council National Park area is under the control of presently control the waters of the Ross the Conservator of Forests. Sand and gravel River and, if so, how was the control removals have also taken place from so vested?" Reserve 774 which abuts both banks of the "(2) Is the Council within its right in Barron River above the tramway bridge denying water for irrigation to those and removal of material from this Reserve settlers on the Upper Ross River, who have would require a Quarry Licence issued by no riparian rights, and severely limiting the Forestry Department. I would suggest those who have such rights?" that the Honourable Member provide a more detailed description of the area con­ Hon. A. R. FLETCHER (Cunningham) cerned and the unsatisfactory conditions replied- complained of. If the matter is under my "(1) The Townsville Water Authority Ministerial control, I will have inves­ Act of 1926 allocated the water in the Ross tigations made and if not I will refer it to River and the control and management of the appropriate Minister." 832 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

GRADING OF SAND STRETCHES AND CREEK In the time at my disposal I wish to say CROSSINGS, LAURA-COEN ROAD something about a facility that has meant much to the commercial, industrial and Mr. ADAm (Cook) asked the Minister for Development, Mines, Main Roads and personal welfare of all Queenslanders. Electricity- Whether one has benefited directly or indirectly, the advent of regionalisation of "Owing to the drought conditions now electricity to the State has had and will con­ existing in Cape York Peninsula forcing tinue to have a material and good effect on graziers to transport feed for starving stock, our Australian way of life. will he have the necessary work of grad­ ing heavy sand stretches and creek cross­ It is true to say that, as with any other ings on the Laura-Coen road carried out idea, electrification throughout the State will at an early date?" always have its problems and it will never reach the stage where everyone will be Hon. E. EVANS (Mirani) replied- wholly satisfied. With modern developments, " It is futile to grade roads when the greater activity in industry, and heavier and material is completely dry. The District continuing demand for electric power, the Engineer has been asked to ensure that the need for constant review of methods of pro­ road is kept in order so far as funds for duction, distribution and payment for the maintenance will allow." commodity will continue. For such a reason-and I give full credit PAPERS to-the Government of the day which in its The following papers were laid on the wisdom, established Regional Electricity table, and ordered to be printed:- Boards throughout the State, to examine the problems associated with electricity supply, to Report of the Minister for Education and endeavour to guarantee supply and to bring Migration for the year 1960. about more orderly planning of development. Report of the Department of Forestry for I am very pleased indeed to have been the year 1960-1961. closely associated with the development of The following papers were laid on the electricity in the better part of the State, table:- North Queensland. As most hon. members Orders in Council under the Schools of know, I have been connected with the Arts (Winding Up and Transfer) Acts, Townsville Regional Electricity Board for 1960 to 1961. some years. I took the place on that board Order in Council under the Elections Acts, of a particularly good Queenslander, the late 1915 to 1959. Larry Kelly, who was a nephew of the late Ned Hanlon. Larry Kelly was chairman of Regulation under the Public Curator Acts, the Shire of Hinchinbrook for a number of 1915 to 1957. years until his untimely death. He gave particularly good representation on the SUPPLY regional board for our shire council. For some years I have not only taken the place CoMMITTEE-FINANCIAL STATEMENT­ of a particularly good representative and REsuMPTioN OF DEBATE advocate but, I am very pleased indeed to be able to say that I have seen much develop­ (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, ment. It may be well to relate some of the Clayfield, in the chair.) history of electricity boards, as we know Debate resumed from 17 October (see them in Queensland, and their close associa­ p. 810) on Mr. Hiley's motion- tion with the general public they serve. Local government is well known to most of "That there be granted to Her Majesty, us. Its varied functions and how it is for the service of the year 1961-1962, a conducted are matters close to us and sum not exceeding £1,594 to defray the matters that affect us as individuals. We salary of Aide-de-Camp to His Excellency take a great interest in it, and from us its the Governor." members are elected to the executive body, on which Mr. Duggan had moved the follow­ the Council, to carry out those duties with ing amendment:- which local government is charged. These are wide and take in a large measure of "That the item 'Aide-de-Camp, £1,594,' be reduced by £1." autonomy. Electricity Boards on the other hand have Mr. ROW (Hinchinbrook) (11.31 a.m.): I not the wide functions of local government. congratulate the Treasurer upon the presen­ They deal with one thing and one thing tation of his Budget. It is a realistic and only, the making and selling of electric courageous one. I know that, in the political power, and even in this field the members arena, whatever he does will be subject to of the boards themselves are limited in their criticism by the Opposition. If he budgets influence, owing to the highly technical for a deficit he will be accused of gross knowledge required to manage and operate an spending and wasting public money. If he electricity undertaking. The responsibility budgets for a surplus he will be accused for it is largely delegated to skilled men of neglecting the development of the State. who are trained particularly for that work. Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 833

Whether hon. members agree or disagree board-the person administering ~h.e Act, that witlt what electricity boards are doing, the is, the Commissioner for Electnctty Supply, fact remains that overall they are operating is a member. in the best interests of the general public, There are personal responsibilities,. o~lig~­ and what greater compliment could they be tions and duties on members but It IS m paid than that! relation to tlte effecting of matters required To commence, it would be preferable to by the Act that difficulty c~n arise in ~he give some idea why they were formed. Early implementation of . policy cov~nng in 1945 the Queensland Government brought regionalisation of electnc1ty and associated down legislation "to provide for the exten­ matters. Although there are matters which sion and co-ordination of the supply of members of boards cannot determine, the~e electricity throughout Queensland in the are others which members are free to deter­ manner best calculated to promote and mine, subject to approval by the represen­ serve the population, development and indus­ tative of the Government. tries of tl:re State, and to secure its economic Members are therefore somewhat restric­ well-being and for purposes incidental ted in the exercise of their authority and thereto." That was the start of electricity would not be subjected to so much adverse boards in Queensland. After the passage of criticism if consumers, and the public gener­ that legislation boards were set up. As ally, had a full appreciation of the .l~w most hon. members know, there are five in ooverning the operations of electnc1ty Queensland-Cairns, Townsville, Mackay, boards. Members of boards exercise a close Rockhampton and the Wide Bay-Burnett area interest in the welfare of the public even Board. Mackay came into being at a later though it is not possible to satisfy ~he date. They are located along the coastal requirements of all those who would hke strip north of Gympie, almost to Cape electricity. In doing this, the many problems York. Their regions which extend westward encountered are not always apparent to the are gradually but solidly expanding to carry public. It is sufficient to say that, more out the electrical development of this great particularly in the last five years, d~velop­ State. ment of electricity has been so rapid that it has adversely affected the financial stand­ The Act under wltich they operate, the ing of some of the boards to an extent. In Regional Electric Authorities Act of 1945, other words, boards could be accused of was based upon a Local Government Act developing their regions too rapidly with the with which most hon. members are familiar. result that deficits have piled up. That is one A number of amendments to the Electricity reason why boards today have the problem Act have since been made, and it is apparent, of reviewing charges for electricity to cover with the great development taking place, the cost of supplying it and the cost of that further amendments will have to be extending it to other parts of the State. made, to conform to the requirements of the regions, in the best interests of the public. The Government enacted that electricity was to be made available to all who required Hon. members doubtless will think, it and were prepared to pay for it. No line regional boards being separate entities, tltat was drawn between the city dweller or the members of these boards could carry out the person living on the land. There was a dis­ requirements of the law in the way best tinction a couple of years ago, and a sur­ suited to the industry and to local conditions. charge was imposed on country dwellers. In the old days people in an area served by a However, there are provisions of the Act transmission line had to pay a surcharge. that restrict them somewhat. Where boards This practice was absolutely unfair to the were set up, electricity undertakings which country dweller. He was paying this unfair were administered by local authorities of the rating. It was only recently, through .repre­ particular region were transferred to the sentations from boards, and the sanctiOn of boards and private companies operating elec­ the Minister in charge of electricity, that tricity undertakings were bought out. this unjust and unfair surcharge was removed. To assist boards to extend supply So that consumers migltt have represen­ to the land, subsidies of up to one-third of tation on these boards, the component local capital expansion were introduced by the authorities submit nominations for member­ Government 10 years ago to offset costs of ship of the board. These nominees are such extensions. However, there is a limit invariably approved by the Government, by to just how far such a scheme can go. It is Order in Council. As the Government have most unfortunate that the Government, with a financial interest in boards of this nature, their ever-increasing burden of financial principally because of their grant of sub­ responsibility for many State functions an_d sidies and the raising of loans by the obligations, have now had to reduce their S.E.C., they are represented on every board assistance to boards although they throughout the State by tlte Commissioner have acknowledged, and will continue to for Electricity Supply. The Commissioner by acknowledge, the admirable job that elec­ specific authority in the Act is required to tricity boards in Queensland are doing. administer the Act, so that on every board, notwithstanding the number of representa­ Extensions of supply are undertaken in tives-and this number varies with the order of economical importance to boards 27 834 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply and consumers as a whole. Priority is deter­ idea of the problems boards have to face mined on this basis. However, it will be to cover the costs of generation and expan­ some time before all those who desire elec­ sion with the remaining 12s. in the £1. tricity are satisfied. What is more, current The Townsville Regional Electricity Board events are not making it easier. has for several years had the benefit of It will be apparent, then, that there are electricity generation by water from the uneconomic extensions of supply throughout Tully River. This has had a very stabilising the State, which in effect means that losses effect on the upward trend in tariffs. Had so occasioned must be borne by the con­ this not been so, the cost of coal would sumers of the region as a whole. I do not have forced the Townsviiie tariffs up still think it is unreasonable to expect assistance more. of this nature and I think all hon. members The annual report, which I have here, will agree. The point to be kept in mind, par­ shows that in 1958 the Townsville Regional ticularly by those who already have elec­ Electricity Board consumed 66,000 tons of tricity is that, apart from other factors, the coal at a cost of £5 12s. a ton, using the cost of supply must rise to cover the loss the availability of power from the Tully Falls boards will sustain to make this essential hydro-electric scheme, while in 1960 31,000 commodity available to as many as possible. tons of coal were consumed at the increased Boards have very extensive areas to reticulate cost of £6 Os. 4d. a ton. It is therefore and quite formidable tasks to accomplish of paramount importance to that Board that with a rapidly decreasing economy. the bulk of its generation should come from The aspect of cost of electricity to con­ the Tully Falls hydro-electric installation if sumers is doubtless the one in which they tariffs are to remain anywhere near their are materially interested, and it is one which present level. Only recently the Board was causes greatest concern to members of boards forced to increase its tariffs by 7t per cent. generally. It is quite a job for members of With the fall-off in water in the Tully River boards to keep an even balance between and the consequent lessening of generation the cost of generating the product and the at that centre, decline of bulk supply to the price the public have to pay. This often Townsville Regional Electricity Board is results in boards accumulating deficits simply having a very serious effect. For the greater because they maintain tariffs at the lowest part of the year, we have been getting 75 possible figure, which provides no margin per cent. of our reticulation requirements for any excess cost to supply the electricity from the Tully Falls installation. But because demanded. of the incidence of the drought and the small quantity of water in the Koombooloomba With rising costs attributable to the cost Dam, the flow of water has dropped to a of fuel and the increasing cost of salaries mere trickle. To make up the leeway, the and wages paid to those associated directly coal-burning plant at South Townsville has or indirectly with the industry, consumers been working at almost its full capacity, of all the regions of the State must be thereby increasing the cost of generation prepared to measure up to the extra pro­ and, what is more, the cost to the consumer. duction expenses. Boards are very hesitant The hope of the Townsville Regional to vary tariffs, particularly when they are Electricity Board is therefore obvious-that considered reasonable, but they have to be a plentiful rainfall in the Tuliy catchment guided by the financial position of the time area will give a greater supply of bulk and by the needs of the succeeding 12 months. electricity to Townsville. Not only will this Members of boards have to be guided by result in immediate savings to the Board and their officers, who examine very carefully its consumers, but the need to install further the financial position of the boards and who coal-burning plant would be obviated. Only have to make a fairly accurate assessment a couple of years ago the Townsville Regional of the requirements of the following Electricity Board discussed the installation of 12 months. a new 15-megawatt turbine. We shall be Very often boards are caught with charges very happy if we can get increased supplies for which they have made no provision. For from the Tully Falls installation and avoid example, a couple of years ago the Towns­ increasing charges to consumers, and we know ville regional board had to meet a heavy what great savings the Board can make by increase in the salaries of professional using hydro-electricity. Fortunately for North officers, which was made retrospective for a Queensland, further investigations into the considerable period. That cost the board generation of electricity by water power are over £20,000. Then we had the cyclone in now being undertaken, and I believe that Bowen and the cyclone in Home Hill, both another hydro-power station, on the Herbert of course not provided for, and the cost to River, may be considered in the near future. the board was £43,000-a large sum to be It is of interest to give some idea of what caught with without provision for it. is meant by the grid system, because this Remembering that the payment of interest means of transmission of power is now being and redemption charges on loans for new widely used. In such a system, all equip­ generating plant, transmission lines and ment generating electricity channels that extensions of supply takes about 40 per electricity into transmission lines running to cent. of the board's revenue-roughly Ss. different parts of the State where electricity in the £1-hon. members will have some is required. This network of lines gives the Supply (19 OCTOBER] Supply 835

impression of a grid. The distributing idle during times of low consumption but authorities draw the power that they require all this has to be paid for. When peak from this grid. If a generating unit should periods are imposed on normal loading, the default, normally there should be sufficient plant has to run at full capacity. Often plant generating at the time to make up for to enable the load to be met the plant the unit that has ceased to function. This ha·s to be enlarged prematurely at consider­ avoids interruptions to power supplies to a able cost. From this it can be seen that great extent, and the value of the grid system if it were possible to level out the demands can therefore be appreciated. Its great effect of consumers, an electric authority such as on industry, in particular, is obvious. The the Board, could run its undertaking cheaper aim of regional boards, and indeed major than where considerable demands are made electrical authorities throughout Queensland, for certain periods only. It is this occur­ is to tie in with the grid all their generating rence that kills any savings boards might plant to enable them to provide an uninter­ be able to make. It is someting that very rupted and plentiful supply of electricity. It adversely affects the cost of electricity. is for that reason that the Tully Falls and Tariffs therefore have to be considered and Cairns systems have been tied in with the based upon such factors. It is by no means Townsvi!le system, and very shortly Towns­ easy for boards, even with the skill and ville will be tying in with Mackay. In effect, knowledge available to them, to readily and there will be a complete tie-up between the properly assess what are correct tariffs. So Cairns Board, Kareeya, the Townsville Board much regard has to be given to what demand and the Mackay Board. Should the genera­ will possibly be in the immediate future in ting plant of one of those systems fail, there assessing such tariffs. will be a complete tie-in, thus assisting to prevent blackouts in the area. In the last 10 years the annual rate of expenditure on electrical development The charge that the board has to make for throughout Queensland increased from electricity is always a contentious subject. It £6,500,000 in 1950-1951 to almost is often claimed that tariffs for electricity £I 2,000,000 in the last financial year. Over are too high and that they should not be so the same period the total capital invested high, notwithstanding that tariffs of regional in the electricity supply industry increased boards compare favourably with tariffs else­ by £I 20,000,000 to a total investment of where. I speak of that from my own know­ £150,000,000 at 30 June, 1961. By the end ledge, too. For the most part, this is attribu­ of the current financial year that figure will table to the fact that a study of what is have reached the staggering proportion of involved in the charge for anything is not £164,000,000. They are mere figures, but always made, with the result that the body they reflect in no small measure the magni­ responsible for the charge invariably finds itself tude of Queensland's development, in in bad odour on this question, if on no other. particular, the startling revolution in the use The purpose of such tariffs is to fix a fair of electricity to improve and expand compromise between the cost to the supplier industrial processes, to raise the standard of and the cost to the consumer. For the living in our homes, and allied with water. consumer tariffs should be reasonable for to increase the productivity of our soils. I the service given him; for the supplier they say once again that the regional supply of should yield a sum to cover the cost of electricity to Queensland has made a great generating and making electricity available contribution to the State. to the consumer. The costs of generating Mr. Davies: Do you give credit te the in thermal plant are made up broadly of two Australian Labour Party? components, the first arising chiefly from the fuel consumed and varying with the Mr. ROW: I do. They started it and we quantity of electricity generated. The other are maintaining it. is owing to interest on capital works and non­ Mr. Houston: Only because you cannot varying expenses, which normally remains give it away. constant, in respect of a certain installation of plant, whether electricity is drawn there­ Mr. ROW: What a stupid statement. Fol­ from or not. The variable component lowing on the commissioning of the Regional happens in most cases to amount to only Boards' central generating stations in 1951 a small fraction of the fixed component. and 1952, and later the Tully Falls Hydro It means that financially a satisfactory turn­ scheme, thousands of miles of transmission over per unit of capital outlay is at least and distribution lines have been constructed as important as technical efficiency. The and the growth in demand for electricity has plant and distribution system must be so been extremely rapid. planned that it will carry the greatest In South-east Queensland, supply of elec­ anticipated load. The most efficient way in tricity has also been developed on a regional which this can be done, of course, is where basis outside the Brisbane metropolitan area, consumers take a full load for 24 hours and the transmission and distribution lines of a day for seven days a week. If, however, the Southern Electric Authority now extend consumers restriict their demand to only over a wide and populous area. The Southern certain periods of peak loading, which is Electric Authority, successor to the City normally what is done, it is obvious that Electric Light Company, was constituted a certain plant and distribution lines must lie public authority by legislation in 1952. 836 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Membership of the authority includes the The average consumption per consumer Commissioner for Electricity Supply, Mr. jumped from 1,228 units in 1938 to 2,732 in Neat Smith, and an additional member 1950, and 4,828 in 1960. appointed by the Governor in Council who, The average revenue per consumer rose I understand, is Mr. Fullagar. The legis­ from £10 in 1938 to £20 3s. 7d. in 1950 lation also provided for the undertaking of and to £53 19s. 4d. in 1960. the authority to be acquired in 1968 by sub­ stitution of Government-guaranteed stock for A vigorous forward planning and detailed the Authority's variable interest stock on a investigation of new sources of power for pound for pound basis. the future has been undertaken by tlre State Electricity Commission and its overseas con­ Mr. Bennett: Do you agree with that? sultants, Messrs. Merz and McLellan, in con­ Mr. ROW: Of course I do. That was done junction with the electric authorities. without the need for cash payment or other The Government recently approved recom­ compensation. Taking bulk electricity now mendations by the Commission of far­ from the Southern Electric Authority, the reaching importance to Queensland. Under Dalby Town Council is providing electricity the plan large-scale electrical development is supply on a regional basis throughout several estimated to cost some £159,000,000 up to adjoining shires in addition to the town of 1970. The approved programme includes the Dalby. construction by the Southern Electric Mr. Ewan: Do you think there will ever Authority of Queensland of a 360 megawatts be a town of Condamine authority? power station on the West Moreton coalfield at an estimated cost of £36,000,000 to serve . Mr. ROW: I think so. There is no way the needs of South-eastern Queensland and m the world that Condamine will not get it. the Wide Bay-Burnett and the Dalby Town In western Queensland, every township with Council areas of electricity supply Also 40 or more consumers now has its own elec­ included is the construction by the Capri­ tricitJ: ~upply. Th~se small local authority cornia Regional Board and the S.E.C. of a electncity undertakmgs were designed and 150 megawatts power-station on the Callide c~mstructed by the State Electricity Commis­ open-cut coalfield, at an estimated cost of sion for the interested Local Authorities, and £23.45 million if developed to its full capacity. were made possible by a special Government Immediate development of the Callide power subsidy, with satisfactory agreement with the station, planned to 1970 only at this stage, unions concerned and close collaboration is estimated to cost £9,210,000. betwee~ ~he Government, the State Electricity Commission and the Local Authorities con­ Transmission works under the approved cerned. But for this there would not have programme include inter-connecting transmis­ been any prospect of the towns concerned sion lines between the networks of the obtaining electricity on an economic basis Southern Electric Authority and the Wide in the foreseeable future. The schemes have Bay-Burnett Regional Electricity Board at an been eminently successful and in virtually estimated cost of £1,800,000, and between all cases additional plant has had to be the Townsville and Mackay regions of North installed to cope with the increasing demand Queensland at an estimated cost of £460,000. from consumers. In the larger western towns In addition, to cater adequately for supply major improvements have been made such to the southern districts of the Townsville as the construction of new power st~tions, Region and for inter-connection with Mackay, installation of additional generating plant tlre 132,000 volt North Queensland system is change over from direct to alternating current being extended from Townsville to Clare at and reticulation and voltage improvement. an estimated cost of £1,000,000. The overall pattern of Queensland's elec­ Those figures indicate what I mean by the trical development is best illustrated by figures grid system, the connecting-up of all the dis­ I shall quote, which are interesting in that tribution lines of power authorities through­ they show the tremendous expansion over the out the State. When the grid system is in past 10 to 12 years. operation, if one power-station breaks ?o_wn the power flows freely along the transmissiOn The units of electricity sold in 1938 were lines from other power-stations. That is a 192,000,000 and some odd thousands. That figure rose to 664,000,000 in 1950 and in splendid idea. 1960 to the colossal figure of 1,928,599,337. Something that is near and dear to my With the advance of electricity supply heart in North Queensland is the Barron throughout country areas, the number of Gorge Hydro-electric Scheme at present under consumers naturally increased. The number construction at an estimated cost for the first of consumers rose from 149,000 in 1938 to stage of £5,850,000, to serve the NortJ-1 243,161 in 1950, and in 1960 to 399,466. Queensland inter-connected system. Th1s The following !fevenu·e figures are inter­ excludes the storage dam on Flaggy Creek esting:- which is planned for construction when required at an estimated cost of £4,967,000. Year Amount £ Mr. Low: North Queensland has done well 1938 1,574,000 under this Government. 1950 4,906,000 1960 21,557,340 Mr. ROW: My word! Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 837

The completion of the Barren Gorge A 33 kV line connecting Thallon, scheme is scheduled for early 1963, and will Dirranbandi and St. Oeorge with the New meet North Queensland's needs until 1967. South Wales system at Mungindi at an estimated cost of £190,000. An A.L.P. Member interjected. A 33 kV line from Barcaldine to Mr. ROW: I could give figures from tlle Aramac, at an approximate cost of £50,000, thus permitting the closing of the annual report to show the tremendous extent small power station at Aramac and the of electricity development in North Queens­ unrestricted use of electricity there. land, and the increased consumption per consumer. In addition, a 66 kV line from Mt. Isa to Cloncurry is being constructed, estimated Investigations are now proceeding i?to to cost £130,000. This 72-mile line will additional sources of power to meet reqmre­ enable the Cloncurry power station to be ments beyond that date, including prospects closed, and supply at Cloncurry will be for a thermal power station on ~he coalfields obtained at more favourable rates from Mt. at Collinsville, and a hydro-electnc schem~ on Isa Mines, which generates the power at the Herbert River. The Herbert River Mt. Isa. investigations by the Co-ordinator~General It is also important to note that natural and other associated departments mto the gas is now being used for the production of possibility of a hydro-electric power ~cheme electricity at Roma. If adequate gas reserves for the Herbert River have been gomg on can be procured at that centre or elsewhere, for several years. It is unfortunate ~hat this fuel could well become an important owincr to the lack of rain in the Herbert River source of electric power in Queensland. last "'year these investigations have been delayed. As hon. members will appreciate, I have touched on a number of important the flow of water, and many other matters aspects of the electricity supply industry. have to be considered in a hydro scheme. I am sure hon. members will agree that The initial cost of a hydro scheme is much much more can be said and much detail greater than the cost of a thermal scheme given of an industry that is rapidly expand­ but the resultant running costs of the hydro ing throughout the length and breadth of scheme are much cheaper. Many things Queensland. The demand is growing rapidly, have to be investigated before a at a rate never anticipated, and rural exten­ hydro scheme can be put into effect and sions over the past decade have increased if I had the time I could read a long history considerably. I assure the Committee that to hon. members. nothing gives greater satisfaction than associa­ tion with a regional board, and seeing the In the Herbert River district we have power being circulated by transmission lines an estimated population of 13,700, and it to country areas to people who, for years, is now estimated that only 400 are without have been used to kerosene lamps and electricity. In the Townsville area, com­ kerosene refrigerators. People who are not prising Hughenden, Charters Towers, Bowen, associated with regional boards cannot appre­ Ayr, Home HiJI, Ingham and Townsville, the ciate how much pleasure is derived from estimated population is 105,000, and of that seeing these people enjoying the amenities of number, it is estimated that 98,000 have the city dwellers, which they have long been electricity. Those facts will indicate to hon. denied. I assure the people that as long members the vast development of electricity as we are associated with the electricity in North Queensland. The supply system supply industry as the Government, as we of the northern part of the State is being will be for many years, it will be our progressively developed throughout the whole endeavour to expand electricity supply area, from Mossman to Mackay. The inter­ farther and farther into the regional and connection between the Cairns and Towns­ rural areas. ville systems has been utilised to the fullest We know that a system of guarantees extent to the benefit of both regional boards has to be set up. Guarantees are usually and work has now commenced on the inter­ worked out at 10 per cent. of the capital connection of the Mackay and Townsville cost of the extension and most boards systems and extensions to the Townsville impose a guarantee of 10 per cent. of the transmission system at a total estimated cost cost for a period of six to ten years. It of almost £1,500,000. When this work is still remains a remarkably good investment completed, it will be possible for some of because, for example, if the guarantee is the benefits of hydro generation at the Tully of £50 a year for six years or even £100 Falls station to be utilised as far south as a year for six years, at the end of those six Mackay and Sarina. years either £500 or £1,000 has been paid and the person has got electricity for all In the western areas of the State, the time. following projects have recently been com­ pleted:- One of the most important points is that the rural consumer can get electricity much A 33 kV transmission line from Miles to more cheaply from the board than by having Drillham and Dulacca, at a cost of approxi­ his own generating plant. I have known mately £45,000. men in my own area who have thrown 838 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply away almost new generating plants which credit squeeze. Surely it will not be denied have cost them over £1,000 preferring to get that there have been droughts before and electricity from the regional board. that the position has been dealt with much more efficiently by former Labour Govern­ The achievement of expansion of elec­ ments than this Government are dealing with tricity supply, and any praise for it, are due it. Credit has been particularly tight at to all those who made it possible. Employees times, but I do not think anyone can remem­ of all the boards and all others associated ber a time between the days of the depres­ with this great industry, whether contractor or sion and the present when conditions were labourer, must surely be congratulated for a harder than they are now. splendid co-operative effort. The part the public of Queensland can play to assist the Unfortunately, there is not one shred of boards is one of full co-operation. This evidence in the Budget of an attempt to would be the most effective way to obtain collect extra revenue other than by taxes for all in the State the great benefits that that can, and in some cases will, ultimately electricity can bestow. be passed on to the workers. There is evidence that certain taxes will be collected, In such matters as organisation, administra­ but they will ultimately be paid by the tion, labour relations and public welfare, workers, most of whom are on little better regional electricity boards are fully conscious than the basic wage. We must be fair to of their responsibility not only to the State the Treasurer, however, and admit that he ~ut also to the nation, and are ready at all has been open enough to mention the times to do what can be reasonably expected amount of revenue to be collected from of them. liquor and racing reforms. Of course, if Mr. DIPLOCK (Aubigny) (12.17 p.m.): The we take the wool from over our eyes, this hon. member for Hinchinbrook followed the is the main purpose behind the reforms, pattern set by other hon. members opposite despite the Government's claim to be doing and, I think rather jovially, congratulated the something to control things that are militat­ Treasurer on the Financial Statement. I ing against the social and moral welfare of think he did so with his tongue in his cheek the people of Queensland. With the improved and I feel sure that, if all hon. members basis of tax reimbursement, were not the were . to give their considered opinion of people of Queensland entitled to expect a the Fmanc1al Statement, and if that opinion balanced Budget that would reflect a deter­ were arrived at without taking into con­ mined effort on the part of the Govern­ sideration party politics, there would be ment to grapple with the unemployment unanimous agreement that it was a very situation, which is far worse than hon. disappointing one, and that a general survey members opposite are prepared to admit? of its contents would truly reflect the finan­ Before the Government were elected to cial quagmire in which the Government find office, they criticised the Labour Government themselves year after year. on every possible occasion for their unsym­ Under Labour Governments the finances pathetic attitude to private industry and of the State were husbanded in a very accused them of doing absolutely nothing to efficient manner. Reserve balances were encourage decentralisation. From time to built up to cushion the effects of a recession time I have asked the Government to adopt should one occur, and to ensure that in a more sympathetic attitude towards those such an event the. !lumber of unemployed employed in industries in rural areas, and I was kept to a mm1mum. Now we have have stressed particularly the case of the arrived at the stage where there is evidence Oakey abattoir. But I am sorry to have to of a r~cession but, unfortunately, the cup­ say that, despite the fact that we have a board IS bare and there are none of those coalition government in which the Country cash reserves to enable this Government to Party has a majority of members, I have provide work for the big and ever-increasing met with little or no success. At the moment army of unemployed. It is my opinion that the economic stability of Dalby is suffer­ the reserves that were so patiently built up ing because of unemployment, which is by La?our Treasurers to help guard against largely due to the unsympathetic attitude of !he. misery of unemployment and stagnation the Government towards the biggest employer m mdustry, which exist today, have to a large of labour in the area. I think, Mr. Taylor, extent been flagrantly wasted by this Govern­ you must agree that it is difficult to under­ ment with one thought in mind. That was stand, particularly when one remembers the to create the impression that it was a pro­ promise of the Government before they were gressive, up-and-doing Government. Conces­ elected to office to do all in their power to sions were granted here and there and much foster industries removed from the metro­ face-lifting took place. At times this was politan area. ~nnecessary, and in some cases, particularly I intend to refer to tenders. For that m areas represented by Government mem­ employer of industry in Dalby, Napier, was bers,. it amounted to a deliberate wastage of one of the tenders. In doing so I hope to con­ pubhc funds. Now the Treasurer instead of vince the Committee that the Government being able to do something about' unemploy­ have not been sincere in their assertion that ment, is sheltering behind excuses such as the they would f

foster the decentralisation of industry. When I should like the Committee to keep in I talk about these tenders I am not speaking mind that tenders were called for 300 or, on behalf of the firm that progressed alternatively, 500 bodies using, alternatively, because of the sympathetic treatment meted Australian steel or imported steel. out to it by previous Labour Governments. It has progressed and will progre'Ss despite Napier Bros. of Dalby quoted for 500 the treatment meted out to it by the present bodies from imported steel at £153,075. Government. Indeed the firm is well able Commonwealth Engineering Company quoted to look after itself. I am speaking in the £152,497. There was a difference of only interests of hundreds of people who now £578. find themselves in a most difficult position I selected the quotes for 500 bodies and because unemployment is rife. As the firm from imported steel because, at that time, has had to curtail its activities there is manufacturers could not count on receiving very little, if any, chance of employment the required amount of Australian steel. I in the area. I stress again that many of prove that by quoting from a letter written those people have left the metropolitan area by the Premier. In reading this quotation and established their homes in the country from the Premier's letter, I wish to stress because they believed the Government would that the engineering consultants, Messrs. foster industries in rural areas. T stress Ford, Bacon & Davis, had advised that the again that most of them have establi·->hed construction of hopper bodies must be pro­ their homes in Dalby because their health ceeded with as quickly as possible. The letter required them to go to a western area. When reads- I have given the Committee the details of " At the time the tenders were consid­ the tenders I think it will be agreed that ered the experience of the Railway Depart­ the Government have no respect for, and ment was such that availability of sufficient do not concern themselves at all, with the steel for the contract through Broken Hill workers from the metropolitan area. I am Pty. Ltd. was too indefinite to consider the pleased to be able to say that after going order being placed on a forward delivery through a period in which it experienced basis, since it was the advice of the many difficulties, the firm has now found Engineering Consultants, Messrs. Ford, the answer to its problems. That answer Bacon & Davis, that the construction of has not been supplied by anything that the hopper bodies must be proceeded with as Government have done. It has expanded quickly as possible.'' its activities and is gradually taking on some of the workers it was forced to retrench l should like the Committee to take I feel sure that it will have the effect of notice of those two facts: Firstly, on the Dalby's regaining its stability in a very short Premier's admission only imported steel was time. available, and secondly, on the advice of the engineering consultants the construction Soon after the Government took control of hopper bodies must be proceeded with of the Treasury Benches, engineering firms in as quickly as possible. Maryborough, Bundaberg, Mackay and other places outside the metropolitan area were told When the tenders were opened I arranged to be there and the Dalby firm's price was that government contracts would come to an so close that I felt justified in approaching end. Despite the fact that they were told the Premier and pointing out to him that, as that no private firms would be given a both firms had to use imported steel, the government contract, one firm in Brisbane difference of £578 would be offset by the is receiving favourable treatment by way of fact that Napier Bros. would have to plough government work. The tenders for the back on that steel £3,000 in freight to the supply of VJM hopper wagon bodies that Government because it would have to send it were finally approved a few months ago to Dalby by rail. I was told by one Minister definitely prove that the Government have that that would not count at all because the no regard for the fate of the worker outside railways were not paying. I put it to hon. of Brisbane. I shall quote the notice calling members, that is a very weak argument-to tenders for the hopper bodies to which I say that if you had a train loaded with cargo refer. It is headed, "Queensland Railways" it would not pay. The railways are not and reads- paying because· they were not getting the freight. They were not enjoying the con­ "Tenders, with deposit in sealed fidence of the people of getting their envelope, correctly endorsed, close with the patronage. Secretary to the Commissioner, Adelaide Mr. Aikens: If the Government will not Street, Brisbane, at 2.30 p.m. on 9th patronise their own railways, how can the March, 1961, for the manufacture and people be expected to? supply of 300 or, alternatively, 500 'V.J.M.' Hopper Wagon Bodies, using Australian Mr. DIPLOCK: Quite right. I inter­ steel, and alternatively using Imported viewed the Premier and I pointed out Steel. Tendering documents available from that there was a difference of only the Secretary, upon payment of £2 per set. £587 in an amount of £153,000; also The lowest or any tender not necessarily that that would be offset by the fact that accepted." £3,000 would have to be ploughed back to 840 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply the Government in rail freight, and the fact on secondary education compared with that this was the one big industrial concern primary education. I give the Minister and employing labour in Dalby. The Premier the Government due credit for building assured me that consideration would be new high schools, and, in every instance, given to such matters, and I really believe they are very fine buildings. I should say consideration was given to them by the that the Teachers' Training College in Premier. In his letter, the Premier pointed Brisbane is the finest training college in out that the advice of the engineering con­ Australia. sultants, Messrs. Ford, Bacon & Davis, was that the construction of hopper bodies must Mr. Aikens: Have you looked at the be proceeded with as quickly as possible. I University I had built in Townsville? claimed further that the difference of £500 Mr. DIPLOCK: Not yet. would be offset by the rate of delivery guar­ anteed by the Dalby firm. If we are not going I am glad that the Minister is in the to take notice of, or give any consideration Chamber to hear my remarks about primary to, the advice of the consulting engineers, school buildings. why pay them the fee they are being paid by Mr. Pizzey: In the last three or four years the Government? The Commonwealth more has been spent on primary schools than Engineering Company could deliver their first secondary schools. wagon body in November, 1961, and there­ after at the rate of only four a week, Mr. DIPLOCK: On buildings? because they had sufficient other work on hand to keep the men in employment. Mr. Pizzey: Yes. Napiers guaranteed delivery of the first wagon Mr. DIPLOCK: That would not even it body in July, 1961, and delivery thereafter out because of the small number of at the rate of 10 a week. I ask would not secondary schools compared with primary that alone be ground or justification for schools. giving the contract for these bodies to Napiers? But that is not all. According to Mr. Pizzey: My remarks refer to the build­ the Press advertisement the tenders were to ing of secondary schools. be for 300, or alternatively 500. Of the tenders accepted, one was for 200, not 300, Mr. DIPLOCK: The Minister would know and the firm whose tender was accepted put as well as I that some of the country areas in a special price because it had sufficient have received shocking treatment in Australian steel on hand to build 200 wagons. connection with buildings. The Commonwealth Engineering Company Mr. Pizzey: There are some schools that was given a contract for the other 300. If Labour was prepared to put up with for tenders are called for 300 and 500, and one ::10 years that we have not got around to firm puts in a tender for 200 because it has yet, and Dalby is one of them. sufficient Australian steel for 200, the grant­ ing to it of a contract for 200, and to another Mr. DIPWCK: I am referring to the four firm for 300, may be legal but it is not rooms under one building that the Govern­ morally right. Every interested firm should ment put up that J:rave no floor, no ceiling to have had the right to tender for a similar stop the dust, and no ventilation, and did not number. Each and every one of the tenderers have electricity until the Minister for could have had steel for less than 300, but Development, Mines, Main Roads, and only one tender was received for less than Electricity had it installed. I was pleased that number. Tenders were not called for that it was on the programme last year, less than 300, and I think it was morally but it was taken off. I do not know who wrong for the Government to accept such a took it off. However, I have been advised tender. During the election campaign big by the Minister for Education and Migration, hoardings were displayed saying, "Put us back and by the Minister for Public Works and and we will foster decentralisation and Local Government that the work is to com­ encourage rural industries." We find that in mence very shortly. I give the Government practice they are not prepared to give the credit for that. people engaged in industries in rural areas Mr. Pizzey: We are not happy about it. an even break, because if these people had It is one of the worst. However, it has received an even break they would have been been impossible to overcome all the bad the successful tenderers. ones in three years. Mr. Walsh: They give preference to Mr. DIPLOCK: In some instances, new Brisbane against the country. schools have been erected and the old ones, put into the background, and not used, are Mr. DIPLOCK: Of course they do. better than those rooms at Dalby. I was very pleased to see that an additional I sincerely hope that the Minister will amount is to be spent on Education. I not allow anything to interfere with his wish it to be clearly understood that I intention to ,commence this building in the should be happy if we were spending twice near future. I do not say that the Minister as much on education, although I believe gives preference to a place because it is that we are spending just a little too much represented by a Liberal, or a Country Party Supply [19 OCTOBER) Supply 841 member, but if he does, he is not really Mr. DIPLOCK: We do not want figures. taking it out on a member representing We want some more money for the operators another area-- of school transport. Mr. Pizzey: You are attacking your own We must voice some criticism of the regime now. Government's attitude towards replacing in country areas police who are on annual Mr. DIPLOCK: I can give instances of leave or extended leave. Go down Queen where Labour neglected one of its own elec­ Street and you will find two or three torates to help an Opposition electorate. police constables and a sergeant watching There were five applications for the last high the red, amber and green traffic lights. In school that was established under the Labour the country the policeman has a very big Government. He will agree that the high area to cover, including perhaps eight or school was established in the Premier's area. I 0 townships. In addition he may have to If the present Government took a leaf from supervise behaviour at quite a few hotels and the book of Labour Governments we would attend to applications for stock permits, and have new high sclrools being built all the all the other permits that are required from time. time to time, yet when he goes on annual leave, or in the case of one policeman when The time has arrived for consideration to be he goes for his three months' leave, the area given to a general increase in the fees paid is left without the services of a policeman. to the drivers of school transport buses. I That is a shocking state of affairs. suppose the Minister has received 50 or 60 requests for increased fees. Is that right? Mr. Low: Do you mean to say police stations close down? Mr. Pizzey: Yes. Mr. DIPWCK: They are unattended. Mr. DIPLOCK: The time has arrived to am referring to Peranga. A policeman is sent consider increasing the rate. Some of the out from Toowoomba one day a week. He people who get in touch with me say, has to deal with 10 small towns. When "We have applied and applied and applied the policeman goes on holiday, there is and the only answer we get is that the no supervision over five or six hotels. The matter is under consideration." I point out policeman at Cooyar is going on three to them that they cannot expect everything months' leave. During his absence the only in a day, but the day grows to a year police service for the whole of the area and the year to two years. I hope the will be the visit of a constable from Minister will have the matter investigated Toowoomba one day a week. as soon as possible. The school transport system that operates on a bitumen road Mr. Aikens: They have taken the police­ and over a lengthy route may be all right man away altogether from an important but the man who operates with only a northern town named Ravenswood. small number of children, over metal roads and not good metal roads at that, and in Mr. DIPLOCK: The people may be well hilly country, cannot possibly operate behaved up there. successfully. Mr. Melloy: They have closed stations in Mr. Aikens: How many school transport the metropolitan area, too. services were operating in the country when you were Minister for Education? Mr. DIPLOCK: Yes, but it takes two hours to travel to Cooyar from Toowoomba, Mr. Pi;zzey: None in the secondary sphere. and it will be left without protection. They would not allow the secondary children to travel on the primary-school buses. The Railway Department is always looking for revenue. I am going to bring up a Mr. DIPLOCK: There were more primary hardy annual and say that in my opinion buses granted by me than have been granted it would be much better if sitting passengers by the present Minister. from western towns were allowed to travel on the Westlander without paying a sur­ Mr. Pizzey: Rubbish! charge. People travelling from Dalby and other places along the western line will not Mr. DIPLOCK: And there would have pay it, and in five trips out of six one been three times as many granted by Labour finds the sitting carriages absolutely empty. Governments as have been granted by the Quite a number of people hitch-hike, and present Government. if seats are vacant it would be better to allow people who want to travel on the Mr. Pizzey: How many years? railways to use them rather than to allow trains to run empty to Brisbane. Instead Mr. DIPLOCK: Transport systems were of waiting for the next train, many men not being operated over all the time of the and women take the bus, which connects Labour Governments. with another bus for Brisbane at Toowoomba, Mr. Walsb: Not so many years. and the railways are losing those passengers. Mr. Pizzey: We can give you those figures. Mr. Low: What is the surcharge? 842 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. DIPLOCK: I am not sure. I think nation wants them to do in a time of crisis, six shillings for the first class, 4s. for second. they are entitled to try to do it. We should I also think th

Mr. DONALD: Anyone would know that district have representation. I went to the Mr. Millar could never qualify for the Q.C.E. area committee meeting when I arrived in let alone be president of it. I did try to Collinsville and I am not ashamed of having correct the hon. member by way of interjec­ done so. tion but he refused to be corrected. He went on to make the improper statement Dr. Delamothe interjected. that people who live in Collinsville, and were Mr. DONALD: I do not know what he in the convoy, were paid £250 or £6 a day. means when he talks about the Kremlin. Dr. DELAMOTHE: I rise to a point of That shows what little regard he has for a order. If the hon. member proposes to distort meeting of members of the working-class matters he should at least have read my movement. I went to the meeting and told speech. He would have seen that the £250 the members of the area committee that the mentioned by me referred to two specific Minister for Mines was the best friend tl:tey members. had in the Cabinet, and I still think he is. Mr. DONALD: I did not need to read Dr. Delamothe: You praised him. his speech; I heard it. He deliberately said Mr. DONALD: I told them I did not think that certain people got £250 or £6 a day. the action of the Government would meet I will deal with that in a few minutes. with the wishes of the Minister for Mines. The hon. member also criticised Alf Arnell They said, "It must be the Minister." I because he had the audacity to meet the said, "He has been compelled to take the convoy when it arrived in Brisbane. He action l:te has taken, through pressure brought shows abysmal ignorance of the industrial by the Liberal members of the Cabinet," movement. Mr. Arnell is president of a and I still think that is so. very powerful industrial union and it was It is said that I praised the Minister for his duty to meet that convoy. Mines. What is wrong with giving him credit Then the hon. member goes on to. talk when he deserves it? I do not play politics about people getting into a panic. On the in things such as this. When justice is done, night the convoy arrived in Brisbane I had I am satisfied, and I am prepared to give to attend a special meeting of the Q.C.E. credit to anyone who does a good job, par­ I parked my car in the grounds of Parlia­ ticularly on behalf of the working class. ment House and on the way back from that meeting, at about half-past nine, I tried to Let me get to the Collinsville meeting. enter the little gate at the side. These people What happened there was a credit to the talk about panic! That gate was locked people who attended and those _who organis~d with a huge chain and a great big padlock. it. It was a tremendous meetmg. The pic­ I thought, "If the other gates are locked ture-show hall was full and a crowd was like this, what will I do?" I walked down outside. The Chairman performed an excel­ to the gate in Alice Street and it was open lent job and the audience behaved themselves but guarded by two very big policemen. much better than do Government members Two huge specimens of manhood were there. in this Chamber. The chairman called on Mr. Millar to give a report on the negotia­ I walked along the passage and I met the tions that had taken place since the last nightwatchman and said to him, "What is all meeL1g. Out of courtesy he called on the trouble? Why is the place locked and the Chairman of the Shire Council, Mr. why are the policemen here?'' He said, Cunni1wham, to be the first speaker. He "You know, the Collinsville miners are here refused ~and the chairman then said, "Perhaps tonight." These people talk about panic! our member of Parliament will speak. He Was I going to shoot the Minister for Devel­ shoul'd be the second speaker." But what opment, Mines, Main Roads and Electricity or did their member of Parliament say? He the Premier? They should talk about panic said, ''I won't bother to speak until the last. when here there was such concrete evidence I wiil speak when everybody else has of panic that was not necessary. Like the spoken." He turned his face on the decency residents of any other coal-mining community, and courtesy of the people of Collinsville. the Collinsville people are law-abiding and His action could be described only as the decent people. action of a coward. The hon. member went on to say that The mine workers and the people of the general president of the Miners' Federa­ Co1linsville have been very, very good to tion was the only man at the conference, the hon. member for Bowen and in their when they met the company officials in Bris­ time of n~cd they looked to him for support, bane, who refused to agree to the suggestions bJ,t in vain. He let them down and did not of I the owners of the mine. will deal come to their assistance. with that in a few minutes. He tried to tell hon. members that area committees were Apart from the hi:=h-tempcraturc dispute inspired and invented by the Communist of thTc:~ weeks this yu:r, there hav.; been Party-again showing his ignorance of the fe"\. er s:opp:tges at the mine than at any industri~,J movement, because area com­ time in its history-so much for the Govern­ mittees have been in existence for a long r~1cr~t ;JccusZllions of unjust stoppages. time. They are part of an efficient indus­ Difficulties in ', orki11f! ihe mine at Collinsville triaL working-class organisation on which all have been expericnc-:~d since n1cchani::;2.tion the uniom in a particular industry in a \Vas introL~uccd tovv;. .u·ds the end of 1953 and 844 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

losses have been incurred, but they have been was concerned. The members of the due solely to the fact that the machinery convoy left Collinsville on a voluntary proved to be unsatisfactory for the mine. basis. A Balance Sheet of the entire The Miners' Union and other technical men expenditure and the cost of the convoy was warned the Government against spending submitted to the Queensland Colliery approximately £500,000 on the machines Employees' Union, was audited and introduced there. The correctness of their checked, and found to be correct, and warning was demonstrated by the fact that accepted as a true and honest undertaking for the period from July to October, 1953, as far as the convoy was concerned." before mechanisation, the mine showed a profit of £5,000, and after mechanisation, Where is the £250 that the hon. member for from November, 1953, to June, 1954, the Bowen referred to? Tlre letter continues- mine lost £116,000. The mine workers "In relation to the re-engagement of cannot be blamed for that, because they and labour at the Collinsville mine referred tlre engineer at Collinsville told the Govern­ to by Dr. Delamothe, it is obvious that ment that the machinery they were introduc­ Dr. Delamothe has been grossly misin­ ing was totally unsuitable for the Collinsville formed or he is deliberately distorting the mine. Prior to the mine's being closed three true facts in relation to same. coal-cutting machines at £18,000 each, were At a conference held in Sydney between in the mine, but had not been used since the the new owners of the Collinsville State disaster in 1954, and this is now 1961. A Mine and the Miners' Federation, it was shuttle car valued at £17,000 was taken down decided that because of the failure to reach the mine in 1953 and has never been used. satisfactory settlement in relation to the A Jeffries Loader machine, valued at £30,000, employment of labour, that the Union was buried by a fall of stone almost 12 would present a complete list of the entire months ago, and it is still buried. Hon. membership at the Collinsville Branch of members will agree that those items are an the Union prior to the closure of the indictment of the mine management and not mine for a future conference to be held the workers at the mine. The physical con­ in Brisbane for further discussions. That ditions of the mechanised mine at the time conference was held on 11 October, and of closure had improved considerably and it was attended by Mr. Thornton, Mr. was recognised by the management and the Conway and the Manager representing the men that it was in the best condition since employers and Mr. Thomas, Secretary, mechanisation started. By coincidence that Coal Owners' Association, Mr. Lawrie, may be why the Government are getting rid Assistant Secretary, Coal Owners' Associa­ of the mine. I will now quote from a tion, Mr. W. Parkinson, General President, letter I received from Dick James, tlre Vice· Miners' Federation, T. M. Millar, District President of the Queensland Colliery President, and C. Vickers, District Secre­ Employees' Union, referring to the charges tary, and J. Nisbet, Co!linsville Branch made by the hon. member for Bowen. It Secretary. was written at Booval, on 18 October, and it reads- The employers submitted the same four men that they had previously selected to "Dear Jim, further drive tlre shaft to the Garrick In relation to the members of the Collins­ seam. The Union in submitting the com­ ville convoy to Brisbane and their return plete list of the previous membership to Collinsville, the only money that the selected four men who were practical convoy members were in receipt of was miners and were selected as a compromise a gift by the Scottsville miners of £5 to and in accordance with the policy of the each member of the convoy for the purpose Miners' Federation to assist in having the of assisting them on the long trip to shaft in question sunk as desired by the Brisbane. Management. The Company completely Prior to their return to Collinsville, each refused to accept the compromise submitted member of tlre convoy was issued with the by the Union, however, the Union informed sum of £3." the Company tlrat our offer was still open and was prepared to negotiate at any That was from the Queensland Colliery future date. Mr. Parkinson was not the Employees' Union. only Union representative in attendance "In other words the total amount of at the conference as has been previously money that each member of the @nvoy set out, and the entire Executive, includm:g had from the time they left Collinsville. Mr. Nisbet, was in complete agreement until their return, was £8." with the proposals submitted. - The hon. member for Bowen would not go Further that Mr. Parkinson did not from Bowen to Collinsville unless he got attend the conference as a professed Com­ more than that. The members of the convoy munist, but as the General President drove thousands of miles, and do not let us of the Miners' Federation, working in the forget that the total amount of money that interests of the members that he repre­ each member got was £8. The letter con­ sents." tinues- We must not forget that he was elected "No member of the convoy was in by the mine-workers throughout Australia receipt of any wages as far as the Union under a democratic Federal-approved ballot. Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 845

"For your information, Jim, this This letter is signed by Richard James, the individual, Dr. Delamothe, has from the Vice-President of the Queensland Colliery very inception of the closure of the Collins­ Employees' Union. He is not a Communist. ville mine completely distorted the He is a rather decent gentleman. He is a facts surrounding the closure. The Union, very devout churchman and he would not on every occasion, has made every tell a lie, let alone print one. That letter endeavour by negotiation to try and have alone condemns the hon. member for Bowen the Collinsville mine reopened under and should silence him for ever. normal conditions, and we shall continue to press for that principle. Quite a lot has been made of the book­ keeping losses of the State coal mine at "I might also add that the question Collinsville. Many people seem to derive was asked Mr. Thornton at the conference great satisfaction from them and gleefully as to the future of the two underground acclaim that they are proof that State and tunnels at Collinsville and he made no public enterprises are total failures. They comment whatsoever, and it is our opinion deliberately refrain from taking into con­ that the Company has no intention of sideration such State and public enterprises commencing operations of the two under­ as the State Government Insurance Office, the ground mines as in accordance with the Public Curator Office, the Commonwealth previous statements that we have made, Bank, the Australian National Shipping Line, that Davis Contractors are linked with T.A.A., C.O.R., A.W.A. and the whaling Mt. Isa, and the fact that prior to the station. closure of the Collinsville State Mine by the Government, the Open Cut Mine A few weeks ago, the State Treasurer, in which is worked by Davis Contractors his speech when introducing the Appropria­ was not in production, but a week after tion Bill, paid a well-deserved tribute to the the closure of the State Mine, the under­ State Government Insurance Office and drew ground mine at Scottville and the Open Cut attention to its worth to the economy of filled the necessary trade markets to the Queensland. Northern part of the State to the extent It will, I am sure, surprise many Govern­ that today, the output at the Open Cut ment hon. members to learn that the publicly­ filled the necessary trade markets to the owned Labour-founded T.A.A. for the year Northern part of the State to the extent 1959-1960 made a net profit of £352,938, that today, the output at the underground that the Australian National Shipping Line mine at Scottville is 650 tons per day, made a net profit of £1,314,376 despite years and the output at the Open Cut, operated of anti-Labour Commonwealth Government's by Davis Contractors, is 1,500 tons per restrictions on these public air and day. This proves our contention that there shipping undertakings, and despite the is no intention of Davis Contractors to subtraction, before net profit, of pro­ open the State Mine, and also proves the vision for obsolescence, insurance depre­ gift that was presented to Mt. Isa and ciatiOn, superannuation and income tax. Davis Contractors by the Hon. Mr. Evans, Those hon. members who are so hurt and Minister for Mines, and his Government. who are keeping up a running fire of inter­ jections should know, if they know any­ "The question of the offer by the Bowen thing, that if it were not for the generous Consolidated, which is merely another treatment given to A.N.A.-T.A.A.'s rival­ name for Mt. Isa, of a third shift on pro­ by the Federal Government, they would not duction to absorb some of the unemployed be able to keep their planes in the air. Collinsville miners was merely a political racket, and had no basic foundation what­ It is not only these two public enter­ soever. prises but also the history of C.O.R., A.W.A., and other public business under­ "The driving down to the Garrick Seam takings that have been sold by the Com­ is just another fairytale. It is based by monwealth Government that shows what Mr. Thornton on the grounds that it could could be done by Governments in business. be used for export trade to Japan, to The Snowy Mountains Authority, another France, which is ridiculous. A.L.P.-founded project, which is a long­ term investment, is bound to return rich "I think it would be a good idea if you dividends to a great number of beneficiaries. checked on the recent statement made by Mr. Spooner, the Federal Minister, and The losses incurred in the operation of Sir Edward Warren, the Chairman of the the State mine at Collinsville was one of New South Wales Coal Owners' that the main reasons advanced by the Govern­ America is toying around with the idea ment for selling the colliery, another being of undercutting the Australian market to the number of stoppages caused by indus­ Japan, and no doubt this will succeed, trial disputes. Let us examine these charges and see whether they justify the Govern­ so I would say that it is only eyewash ment's action in closing the mine on 19 as an attempt to hurt the Collinsville April. people and to confuse the general public of this State, and I consider it to be Before dealing with the Tenth Annual political trickery." Report of the Queensland Coal Board, let 846 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

me quote from the Treasurer's Financial Mr. DONALD: I will give the hon. Statement. The table relating to Trust and member the figures if he will only remain Special Funds shows the cash balances at quiet. I shall not go through all the mines 30 June, 1956, for the State Coal Mines in the West Moreton district but I shall Fund as £207,431 in debt. This year the quote the figures for Boxfiat Extended table relating to Trust and Special Funds because it has the highest individual produc­ shows a credit of £234,324 for the State tion in Queensland. In 1958 it was 17.97 Coal Mines, or an improvement of tons, which rose to 29.55 tons in 1961. At approximately £442,000. the coal face it has risen from 5.76 to If we turn to the pages of the Tenth 7.52 tons. At the Bonnie Dundee mine it Annual Report of the Queensland Coal has risen from 7.72 to 7.00 tons. Board, which is up to its usual excellent Let me move on to Collinsville and Scott­ standard and a copy of which has been ville because that is what the hon. member delivered to each hon. member, we find for Bowen is very anxious to hear. Again among the carefully compiled tables, one I have nothing to fear from quoting the dealing with the output of the collieries figures. In 1958 Collinvsille was 9.98, of Queensland and the output per man­ Consolidated 9.30; in 1961 Collinsville was shift of individual mines. There are also 25.12 and Consolidated 9.59 tons. tables dealing with the man-shifts worked The hon. member wants to know and lost in each district and in each mine. the overall production. I will tell him The number of days lost through industrial because the working classes never lie in disputes, sickness, absenteeism and other the presentation of a case. The figures in causes is recorded for the information of 1958 for Bowen are 2.06, Bowen Consoli­ all who may be interested. A perusal of dated 2.63; in 1961 Bowen Consolidated the tables will convince any fair-minded 2.48 and Collinsville 1.93. I have nothing person that the employees of the State mine at Collinsville have a production and to hide. industrial record that compares very favour­ Dr. Delamothe: Give us something new. ably with that of other mine-workers You are wasting time. throughout the State. Mr. DONALD: If the hon. member did I am not putting this document forward not waste time the other night I do not only as I see it. I am proving my case, know what he did! as I said I would prove it, by facts. These are the figures given by the Coal Board The CHAIRMAN: Order! showing the output of coal per man-shift worked- Mr. DONALD: The overall is a little bit District 1949-1950 1960-1961 in favour of Consolidated. I shall say why, Tons Tons but not just now. It is .42 in 1959 and West Moreton­ .55 in 1961. Going to Bowen Consolidated Face 6.00 9.16 open cut, we find that the open-cut produc­ Overall 2.65 3.79 tion per man is not as high as the output of underground miners at Collinsvil!e. The Dr. Delamothe: Give us the overall figures are 14.84 and 22.03. figures. I want to emphasise these figures because Mr. DONALD: I have nothing to hide of the never-ceasing propaganda that tries and nothing to fear. I will give the hon. to impress upon the people of Australia that member the overall, and it will be all the miners are always on strike. I am over him. If the hon. member would referring to a table that sets out the time listen, he would not be so easily hood­ lost at Queensland collieries through various winked. The table goes on- causes. In 1960 .74 was the percentage District 1949-1950 1960-1961 lost through industrial disputes. The percent­ Tons Tons age for sickness was 6.65, with a percentage Darling Downs­ of 1.88 for absenteeism, and .06 for other Face 5.21 7.00 causes. That is the position in Queensland. Overall 2.89 3.12 On the Bowen field, which shows the best Maryborough­ figures in Queensland for the percentage of Face 5.06 5.17 time lost in industrial disputes, the following Overall 2.38 2.54 are the figures- Rockhampton- 1959 .28 Face 6.92 7.49 1960 .24 Overall 2.64 2.42 1961 8.99 Bowen Underground­ The figures are not necessarily due to Face 7.65 11.79 Collinsville because there were just as many Overall 2.04 2.28 disputes at Bowen Consolidated, and more Total Average- at the open-cut mine. The figures for sick­ Face 5.99 8.67 ness for the same three years are- Overall 2.51 3.41 1959 6.37 Dr. Delamothe: Give us the Collinsville 1960 5.84 and Scottville ones separately. 1961 5.7 Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 847

The figures for absenteeism were 2.55, 2.45 that it cost the Queensland District of the and 2.55 respectively. They are official figures Miners' Federation a pretty sum of money from the Queensland Coal Board and the in legal expenses. accusation that Collinsville people indulged in strikes more than anybody else did is not As the personnel of the Commission was substantiated by them. On the contrary, both talented and experienced in law, produc­ they have a better record than any of the tion and management, some notice must be others. taken of their findings. If this is done, it will be found that the position at Collins­ Now, I should like to deal with the open­ ville, prior to the closing of the mine, was cut. What is the record of Bowen Consoli­ not nearly as bad as it was painted. dated Open-Cut, a privately-operated mine? Hon. members should note that they did not The Annual Reports of the Queensland sell their mine. Their figure last year was Coal Board have shown that the production 8.32 for days that could have been worked and industrial record of the Collinsville mine but were lost through industrial disputes. workers compared more than favourably with One does not hear anything about that. that of mine workers throughout the State Why should we continue to harp on losses of Queensland. The report of the Royal through industrial disputes at Collinsville Commission also reveals this satisfactory state mine? of affairs. Dr. Delamothe: You are the only one who In dealing with the price factors the Com­ has mentioned those. mission expressed the obvious vie:.V that the success of any mine is equally dependent Mr. DONALD: I am the only one who is upon the price it receives for its product telling the truth. Any hon. member could as it is on production and the cost to produce. get those figures. On page 106 of the Commission's Report Should any hon. member still feel uncon­ !here. are tw~ tables and .some very interest­ vinced, allow me to draw his attention to tng mformatwn that I mtend to quote in the report of the Royal Commission appoin­ a minute or two. ted to inquire into certain matters relating to the State Coal Mine, Collinsville. The Mr. McCarthy, Secretary, Queensland Commissioners were the Honourable J. A. Coal Board, was asked whether interest was Sheehy, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court an allowable item in calculating the cost of of Queensland, Chairman, Septimus Flowers, production. He replied that it was not Esq., District Mining Engineer, Newcastle, allowed. Had it been allowed and had of the Joint Coal Board of New South Wales, the State mine received the sam~ price for Waiter Scott, Esq., Governing Director, its coal as the neighbouring Bowen Consoli­ W. D. Scott & Co. Pty. Ltd., Management dated company did, it is doubtful if any Consultants throughout Australia and New losses would have occurred. Zealand. Many hon. members will be astonished to The terms of reference of this inquiry were, learn that the price received by the manage­ as hon. members know, extraordinarily wide ment of the Collinsville mine was lower than involving inquiry not only into all aspects that received by the Bowen Consolidated of the disaster but also the history of mech­ mine and, at one period, it was as much as anisation of the mine, the success or other­ Ss. 8d. per ton lower than that paid to Bowen wise of the mine under mechanisation, and Consolidated. The critics of the State mine as to whether mechanisation should be discon­ at Collinsville no doubt will be flabbergasted tinued or not. Further, the members of the and disappointed to hear this. This is what Commission were required to investigate the the Commission said on page 104 of its future of the mine from the angle of safety, report- health and protection of the miners and also "Prices received by the Col!insville State from . the economic angle, as to whether Coal Mine have always been controlled !he mme should be discontinued in the public and an understanding of the method of mterest. that control is inseparable from any The Commission heard evidence on 79 sit­ examination of the financial results and ting days, 13 in Bowen and 66 in Brisbane. position." Eight days were occupied in hearing On page 105 the Commission said- addresses. Thirty-two witnesses were exam­ ined before the Commission and 191 exhibits "The Board has obtained from various were tendered. Some idea of the cost of sources details of the selling prices of the Commission may be derived from the coal operating at the State Mine Collins­ legal expenses provided by the Government ville, and at the privately-owned' mine on to the then Superintendent of State Coal the Bowen Field from 1943 to date, and Mines and another official of the mine. They these details, together with brief reasons were close to £10,000. That is what it for fluctuations, are set out in the schedule cost the Government to provide these gentle­ attached hereto. I think it is summed men with the services of leading legal men. up in the schedule. It will be noted from this schedule that whereas until October Just what the total cost of the Commis­ 1948, the State Mine prices were simila; sion was, I do not know, but I do know to those of the Consolidated Mine, from 848 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

that date until January, 1951, the State Mr. DONALD: Are you going to deal Mine prices lagged behind those of the with him, Mr. Taylor? private mine, the difference at one period being as high as 5s. 8d. per ton." The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member will please proceed with his speech. The Railway Department received a discount of 5 per cent. on all the coal it bought from Mr. DONALD: The report continues- the Collinsville State Mine. The following "We were informed that, as from lOth passage from the report is of interest------·------January, 1955, a special price adjustment was made 'in the interests of Bowen 1 State Mine Approximate Price Tonnage Consolidated Mines, 3s. 3d. per ton being compared Produced added for this purpose.' " Period with Bowen by State Consolidated Mine Mr. Evans: That was done by your Gov­ Price ernment. s. d. 1-11--48 to 7-11--48 -1 7 23,242 Mr. DONALD: I am not speaking about 8-11--48 to 30-11--48 -2 5 15,438 1-12--48 to 31-5--49 -0 1 82,594 the Government. I am putting up a case 22-7-49 to 13-11--49 -1 2 41,767 for the miners. 14-11--49 to 31-12--49 -5 8 15,448 1-1-50 to 30-6-50 .. -2 11 69,651 1-7-50 to 7-1-51 -2 5 61,238 The CHAIRMAN: Order! I have been very patient in listening to the cross-firing between hon. members while the hon. member has The Commission went on to say- been endeavouring to make his speech. The "In approaching the problem of the hon. member for Bowen has already had an effect upon the financial results of the opportunity of making his speech and now State Mine played by prices and pncmg the hon. member for Ipswich East is replying procedures, it is suggested that the first to him. I should be very grateful if all hon. step is to ascertain what additional members would allow him to proceed with­ amounts would have been necessary each out interruption. Even though they may dis­ year in order to allow the mine to break agree with what he says, they should allow even. These results are best obtained by him to proceed in a reasonable way. a listing of the cost of production on Mr. DONALD: I wish to let hon. members the one hand and the average selling price know that this is not my opinion, but the on the other." opinion of three very eminent gentlemen On three or four occasions, between 1941 and who inquired into this business. So that 1953, if the Collinsville mine had been able no-one may say that what I am saying is to charge what the Coal Board allows every biased I am taking very great care to quote other mine to charge, that is, 2s. in excess from the official report of the Commission. of production cost, it would have shown a The report continues- profit in all those years. "We were informed that, as and from The report continues- lOth January, 1955, a special price adjust­ ment was made 'in the interests of Bowen 'The losses sustained by the mine over Consolidated Mines, 3s. 3d. per ton being a period of years are thus, it is believed, added for this purpose.' " seen in better perspective. It must be remembered that the State Mine prices If that 3s. 3d. had been added to the State substantially lagged behind those of Bowen Coal Mine price the mine would not have Consolidated in the years 1949, 1950 and made a loss. The report continues- 1951. If the State Mine had received even "As far as the State Mine is concerned, the same prices as those given to Bowen it appears to obtain an increase only if, as Consolidated during those years, the loss and when, Bowen Consolidated gets one. in 1949 would have been almost eliminated It is at least questionable as to whether and those of 19 50 and 19 51 greatly this is a desirable procedure. reduced." "The problem, however, goes much deeper than that. The policy of the Dr. Delamothe: That is a shocking indict­ Queensland Coal Board in arriving at a ment of your own Government. price was to take the results for the previous year and, in the light of the cost Mr. DONALD: I am putting up a case for of production for that year, adjust the the miners who were slandered by the hon. selling price for the then current year member. accordingly. This had the effect of the mine almost always running at a loss in a Dr. Delamothe: It is a shocking indict­ period of rising costs. The reverse would ment of your own Government. be true if costs were continually falling, but no such happening was at all likely, Mr. DONALD: I do not think the hon. nor did it at any time occur. member is in his right seat. "The importance of this is best seen by Dr. Delamothe interjected. an analysis of the results which would Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 849

have transpired if the price of the follow­ Consolidated, provision for Income Tax, ing year had been operating in the previ­ Government Subsidy, and Surplus on Sale ous year. These projected results are given of Investments, all require adjustment. since 1948 as under:-" (Directors' Fees and Dividends and Sun­ dries are left in as they are small and any Before I give the figures let me say that apportionment may be difficult)." private enterprise does not wait for the fol­ lowing year before it puts up its prices. As "After adjusting the two sets of accounts soon as there is a rise in the cost of produc­ (including interest for the State Mine), the tion, the price of the article is increased, position would be- but the Collinsville Mine had to wait for a Bowen State Mine Profit £17,612 year for an increase in the price of coal. Bowen Consolidated Profit £1, 196" The following table shows the results- Result for Projected The report goes on- Year. Result. "Before proceeding to other matters, one "Year Loss Profit further analysis is necessary. Reference £ £ was made by Mr. E. McCartlzy to the dis­ 1948 7,262 19,264 count of five per cent., given by the State 1949 5,157 25,944 Mine on all coal used by the Railways. 1950 36,224 9,235 Figures showing these deliveries are not 1951 25,908 41,502 available for the whole period but it is 1952 4,635 30,251, quite evident that, if the discount was given over the years from 1941, the dis­ That table is followed with this statement in count of five per cent. allowed to the the report- Railways by the Mine has amounted to "lndeed, no clear financial figure is pos­ a considerable sum and should really be sible without it. In the five years shown- taken into account in any endeavour to 1948 to 19 52 inclusive-the results showed arive at the true Profit and Loss position a total loss of £79,186, as against, after of the State Mine. It may perhaps be the price adjustment indicated, a profit of argued that it was not unreasonable for a £126,196-truly a remarkable margin customer as big and as consistent as the within which to allow for price rises given Railways to be entitled to some special at the time higher costs were involved." discount. It should be remembered, how­ ever, that the Railways were in any case That is just another indication of the burden buying the coal at considerably cheaper that the State coal miners at Collinsville had prices than would have operated if they had to carry. The report continues- had to buy Callide or Blair Athol coal and "Nor is this the only factor involved. transport same to North Queensland. We Mr. McCarthy was asked whether interest are not indicating that the discount should was an allowable item in calculating the not be given but we do suggest that, in cost of production. He replied that it was any assessment of the financial results of the mine the discount should be taken into not allowed. account. "According to the accounts of the two It must be remembered that Hre aim of mines, it would appear that Bowen Con­ the Queensland Coal Board was to adopt solidated made a profit on eleven occasions a pricing policy sufficient to give a profit and a loss on two, whilst the State Mine figures were a profit on four and a loss on of 2s. a ton. nine occasions. At the outset, it should be remembered that a discount of five per cent. to the "The Bowen Consolidated accounts, Railways, at least from 1951 onwards, however, include some items which require would have represented 2s. per ton which adjustment as, for example, the fact that would wipe out on coal supplied to the a Government subsidy was received on Railways the 2s. profit to which reference four occasions." was made by the Secretary of the Queens­ The Government subsidised the private mine land Coal Board." at Scottville but never at any time did they It goes on- subsidise their own mine, yet members of the "It is safe to say that the State Mine Government have the hide to trot out the would, on these prices have shown a most balance sheet of the Bowen Consolidated handsome financial result." Mine to show how it has done ever so much better than the Collinsville mine. The report The hon. member for Bowen was very anxi­ continues- ous to prove that the overall production of " Before a true picture can be obtained, the Collinsville State Coal Mine was lower therefore, certain items should be adjusted. than that of Scottville. The report has this In the case of the State Mine, Interest to say- (which may or may not appear in the "It is admitted that the surface workers Bowen Consolidated accounts but which is at the State Mine could be expected to be not separately shown and is unlikely to greater than at Consolidated. In the first be treated in the same way as in the State place, the State l\1ine looks after the town's Mine accounts) and in the case of Bowen electricity; secondly, it carries on a certain 850 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

amount of outside work. In the years And remember always, when making these 1947-1948 to 1951-1952, for example, the comparisons, that at no time did the increase work performed at the workshops at the at Bowen Consolidated to any great extent State Coal Mine for other State under­ exceed half a ton more than the Collinsville takings, or for private organisations or State Mine. But what do we find? These are individuals, is shown hereunder-" the figures-

I 1947-48 1948-49 1949-50 1950-51 1951-52 -----•w-- £ £ £ £ £ Total Wages paid workshop s taff .. .. 9,380 11,345 11,369 12,543 13,211 Wages charges for "' outside " work .. .. 682 967 1,265 520 1,924 Percentage ...... 7·2"/, 8·5"/o 11·1"/, 4·1"/o 14·5"/,

As is well known, the Collinsville State coal and £560,000 in the case of Blair mine had men working on the surface who Athol, would you say that we would be would not have been employed by private justified in assuming that this mine had enterprise. When a man was injured below made an economic contribution to North to such an extent that he could not hew coal Queensland in that year to the extent of or be employed underground a job was found this, say, £360,000 and £560,000, according for him on the surface. Every man thus to whether Callide or Blair Athol coal had appointed added to the reduction of overall been used? Now, is that a fair statement, output per man shift of the colliery. leaving out the actual arithmetic of the Again, the Collinsville State mine carried statement? Is that a fair statement that \v e an army of officials and clerks that the Bowen might make?" Consolidated was not required to carry. Mr. McCarthy replied- That is the position and I think it explodes "In my opinion, it is a reasonable any objections to being a little over half-a-ton assumption that the consumers of North under sometimes. Queensland have been saved that amount On the economic position this is the of money. There are certain factors thnt finding of the Commission- are associated with it and a large propor­ "Irrespective of the domestic results tion of that extra cost is entailed in railway secured year by year by the State mine, freight. It is not all money that is being and apart altogether from what adjust­ paid for the coal, and in turn that has ments could be well made to the published always created a matter of difficulty on the figures in order to arrive at a realistic part of the Railway Department-that haul­ appraisal of the results achieved, there can ing coal from the Central Division. But be little doubt that, on the evidence sub­ putting those factors aside, I think it would mitted, the State mine has endeavoured to be reasonable to say that the economic fulfil a very real and important need in position of North Queensland would be North Queensland, and upon a basis of improved to the extent of the sum that you economics has, in our view, completely arrive at." justified its existence." What is their finding in regard to public This series of questions was put to interest? They say- Mr. McCarthy- "There is no doubt that the Collinsville "So that we can get it quite clearly in State Coal Mine has contributed greatly to evidence, you have already indicated that the development of North Queensland. For the landed price at Townsville in the case example it has- of this average Townsville consumer which you nominated-the landed price at (a) Developed the coal resources of Townsville of Callide coal would be the State. £7 16s. 10d. and Blair Athol £9 4s. Od., (b) Helped to develop North Queens­ while the Bowen Underground price would land industries by making coal available be £5 7s. 8d. Now, I take it that, leaving at reasonable price. other factors out of account, if there are (c) Obviated extra strain on the Rail­ other factors, and we will come to that in ways by minimising haulage of coal. a minute, it would be feasible to say that (d) Saved the State and/or North if the State mine had produced 150,000 Queensland consumers large sums of tons in a year, which had gone to thb money by the development of coal Townsville consumer, the economic advan­ resources close to points of usage. tage to North Queensland could be arrived (e) Given employment to anywhere at by taking the number of tons-150,000 between 200 and 400 men over a long tons-and multiplying by, shall we say period of years." £2 9s. 2d., in the case of Callide-if this arithmetic is correct-and £3 16s. 4d. in What is the condition of the sale of the the case of Blair Athol? If they were the mine? The report says- differentials and the tonnage supplied to "To determine the effect of closure of Townsville, say, 150,000 tons-assuming the State Mine upon employees, it is neces­ that the arithmetic was right-if that sum sary to consider what consequential came to £360,000 in the case of Callide changes there would be in the lives and Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 851

conditions of those employees. If, for I do not intend to attempt to deal with example, it was decided to lease the State anything with which I am not conversant Mine and the employees were required as but I shall take the opportunity to express at present, the only difference being that a few thoughts about the departments that their employer would be the lessee im,tead I know something about. My remarks will of the Government, presumably no be confined mainly to the Valuer-General's difficulty would ensue. There would. of Department and to the Minister responsible. course, be some hardship accrue to some I make my comments without any personal if the lessee required less employees than animosity, or personal reflection on either are engaged at the present time. There the officers of the department or the would, however, seemingly be two safe­ Minister. guards here. The first would be that the mine employment being already fairly low. The Valuation of Land Act of 1944 was introduced as, "An Act to make better pro­ it is unlikely that there would be anything vision for determining the valuation of land much in the way of dismissals. Secondly. for rating and taxing purposes, and for it is conceivable that the State Government matters incidental thereto or consequent may be prepared to make it a condition of thereon." Today th~re would not be a more any lease that dismissals be not allowed for contentious subject than the work of the any other than stipulated reasons, at least Valuer-General's Department. The hon. for a stated period. member for Townsville South pointed out 'These conditions could also apply in how vitally people are affected. the event of a sale of the mine to private interests." Mr. Bennett interjected. That has not been done. The Royal Com­ Mr. HOUGHTON: The hon. member for mission said that if the mine were sold, the South Brisbane is like a jackass. Government should see that the intere5t5 of the employees were safeguarded. As I said in Mr. Bcnnett interjected. moving the motion for the disallowance of the Order in Council, they have th1 own the Mr. HOUGHTON: If you put your hat employees at Collinsville to the wolves on-- instead of safeguarding them. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ What do we find? Davis Contractm s Ltd. ber will not make personal references . have not brought the mine into produ;:tion, and it looks as if they do not want to Mr. HOUGHTOi'l: As a result of the produce. What do they want? They want to work of the Valuer-General a &reat deal of get back to the days when the employer embarrassment has been caused both to the could employ whom he liked and victimise Government and property owners. The a man who had the courage to stand up for valuation of rural or urban land has no his rights. I can visualise, without any imag­ real relationship, nor is there any distinct ination, the attitude of the Minister for relationship between land used for com­ mercial or industrial purposes and land used Mines. I do not think that he wants to see fo:- domestic purposes. In his approach anyone at Collinsville victimised. Bet:ausc the to revaluations of land the Valuer-General Government have refused to take an interest must remember always that his valuations in the welfare of their former employ~cs, I create a hand that reaches into the pockets am sorry to say that the miners at Collins­ of everyone. High land valuations now ville and their families are being victimised constitute a great hazard to the home buyer. today, perhaps out of sheer spleen. Unimproyed value, of course. is the basic Time does not permit me to refer to many factor-in other words the site value of anv other factors to prove our contention that portion of land. In the early days of there is no justification for the sale of the primitive life land ownership by individuals State coal mine at Collinsville on the excuses was unknown. Man lived by direct advanced by the Government of financial appropriation, taking what was already pro­ losses and industrial unrest. vided by nature. Private property consisted of weapons, ornaments and other items of (Time expired.) a similar kind. usually made by the man himse!f. Barter undoubtedly existed but i:1 M:r. HOUGHT0:'\1 (Redcliffe) (3.10 p.m.): those days it was hardly necessary. As the At this stage I should like to express my evo1ution of society ~:--o._:~csscd 111.:1.11 cxerte(.& appreciation of the difllculty with which the more and more control over nature. Land. Treasurer has beeP confronted in the framing for all practical purposes was there and no of his Budget, bec:nne of the orolom~cd n.~ccs-:ity existed for man to .~ppropriate :ncity of Redcliffe, would have enable him to do so. Can we then accept been included in the formula adopted, not the principle outlined as a basis for valuation just those that were specifically incorporated as it concerns the populated areas? If w~ in the valuation arrived at, say, 12 months do, how would the prudent person fare on a market of supply and demand? before. Mr. Gaven: They are the Valuer-General's If the value of land has no relationship words. to rates, as was claimed by local authorities, as rates are paid on the gross value of Mr. HOUGHTON: I am not worried rateable land at a figure in the pound struck about what he says. I am saying what I to meet budget requirements, why all the believe, and it is up to him whether he heartburning and fuss about the costs to agrees or not. the people in creating values on a false basis of reasoning? That is the crux of Speculative buying must affect the price the matter. as a middl~-man is now in the picture, so we must discount such sales as a basis for Let us have equitable valuations so that valuation. It therefore all boils down to everyone pays his just share of rates and the basis used by the valuer who has his taxes. Today and for the past few years feet on the ground. He can estimate the rapid changes have taken place by extensive cost of converting the unimproved land into development, which has again brought about a condition suitable for home building or a position which urgently calls for a review if certain improvements have added value t~ of methods of valuation and truly calls for the land, there must then be an estimated the science of valuation and not valuation cost of such to be deducted if we are to by regulation. have a true unimproved value: or site value. The Department of the Valuer-General We return to the point-what basis did comes specifically under the Minister for the valuer use? Public Works and Local Government. I Mr. Walsh: The basis under the Act. do not doubt the honesty and integrity of the Minister or of the Valuer-General but, Mr. HOUGHTON: That is so. He works in the interests of the welfare of the State, specifically within the Act. If he follows the department should be taken away from the intentions of the authors and blindly the Minister and put under the guidance :evalues. land every three or five years, of another in a department that has no 1rrespectJve of where he is going, the Valuer­ direct relation to matters of vital importance General cannot be blamed. If the Act to the development of the State. After all, 854 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

the Minister is responsible not only for I should like to state a specific case in valuations but also for local authorities, which the right of appeal is denied, and this to whom valuations are of vital importance. is of vital concern to the ratepayers of the Redcliffe area. Some time ago a parcel of Mr. Richter: Which department would you land in that area was subdivided. plan tie it to? A was presented to the Redcliffe City Council Mr. HOUGHTON: I shall come to that for approval. On the advice of the engineer­ in a moment. I should say that under no ing department and the works committee it consideration should it be tied to the Depart­ was rejected because we were of the opinion ment of Public Lands. That department has that certain drainage works were necessary. its own valuers operating throughout the However, the person concerned was not pre­ State and they frequently are in conflict with pared to provide the necessary drainage esti­ the Valuer-General's valuers. In my opinion, mated to cost £600, even though the land the Valuer-General should be supreme. He had been purchased by him at the nominal should not be under the control of the price of £1,800, and his total outlay had Minister for Public Lands and Irrigation or been recouped already by the sale of a the Mini·ster for Public Works and Local couple of blocks of land. He appealed to Government. The Premier should be the the Minister who in turn appointed an officer only Minister having jurisdiction over him, to determine the issue. I cast no reflection and there should be no ministerial inter­ on the person appointed, but he was in the ference with his decisions. They should be employ of the Government. That officer final. Any valuation determined bv the gave a ruling binding on the Council, that Valuer-General's department should be there was no necessity to put in the drainage binding on the Government for probate and works. With the first heavy fall of rain the succession duties or for any other purpose. run-off from that parcel of land was respon­ sible for great damage to adjoining proper­ If the qovernment adopted m>: suggestion, the public would be treated fairly and the ties. Although the person appointed by the Valuer-General wonld not be under the Minister said there was no necessity for jurisdiction of the Minister for Public Works the owner of the land to put in the drainage the Council face the liability of £600 or and Local Government. I believe that the £700 to complete it. Had we had an oppor­ Valuer-General should submit a report to tunity to appeal, undoubtedly we should have Parliament like the heads of other done so. Time has proved us to be right. Government departments do. We have written to the person concerned, Mr. Aikens: In what way does the Minister and to the department asking where we go control him now? from here. We are still awaiting a reply to that letter. It is a situation that is confront­ Mr. HOUGHTON: I do not know, but h~ ing many local authorities today. has the right to control him. If there is a dispute about a valuation, the Minister has Another case concerns two adjoining the right to appoint another officer to deter­ parcels of land of equal size, with the same mine matters coming under the jurisdicition type of soil, one facing the waterfront and of the Valuer-General that may be of the other facing the street to the rear. The importance to local authorities. person who appealed to the court for a determination has been advised that the ratio The Valuer-General usually revalues land of the value of the front parcel to the value every three to five years, and he i·s not called of the rear parcel is two to one, therefore, upon at any time to present an authority the front parcel of land is valued at £1,000 for doing that. and the rear parcel at £500. When a court Mr. Walsh: Obviously he gets his authority makes a decision it is binding on everybody, under the Act. but the Valuer-General has the authority to say, "There will be a further valuation in Mr. HOUGHTOl\': I take it that what the five years' time and that will overcome any hon. member for Bundaberg says is correct, adverse decision so far as I am concerned." and that he gets his authority under the Act. The property-owner is consequently faced However, I think that land-owners should with the same costs again in five years' time have the same rights as the Valuer-General. in going to court and obtaining a true valua­ A land-owner is given 42 days in which to tion of the same property. lodge an o.bjection or an appeal. If justi::e 1·s to rre_v~Il and we are to have uniformity, I have touched on several matters about the concht10ns should be equal for all parties. which I feel strongly but the most important, The Valuer-General should be bound by the of cotJrse, is that of rating. Virtually all local p~riorl of 42 days also. The land-owner authorities in the State tod~y, if not bankrupt, should have the right of appeal to a relevant are next-door to it 2ritd the i~positic:n of rates appeal court. The Valuer-General does not on property-owners h;,s reached such stagger­ have to face up to any limitation. Unless a ing proportions that they are, in many cases, l~nd-owner !s ScJecessful_ in getting his valua­ unable to carry ths load. I have a solution t.on red:1cea by a certam percentage he has that I think n1ight overcon1e the proble1n and to bear the costs. In order to get justice he I should like to submit it to hon. members. has to have a very deep pocket. The Act I assutne, for argurnent sake .. that the capilai should be ~me:;ded to give the appeal court value of the land in a local :cw!hority is full discretiOn m the awarding of costs. £2,000.000 and that the rate for areu is Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 855

Is. in the £1, the revenue from which is Mr. Walsb: Invisible improvements. £100,000. The Council in its wisdom, or otherwise, might draw up a works programme Mr. HOUGHTON: That is so, invisible costing another £20,000, thereby increasing improvements. For residential areas I their budgetary responsibility to £120,000. I suggest a limit of 15 years. If the owner assume again that properties in the ratable sells his land, I suggest that it should then area, enjoying the privileges, rights and be automatically placed on a normal rating amenities provided, number 10,000. basis. That would eliminate the effect of invisible improvements in the valuation of If the rate is established at a fiat £10 for the particular parcel of land. each property each owner would be faced with an initial basic cost of £10. The Valuer­ In many places, including Redcliffe, con­ General may have valued one piece of land cessions for invisible improvements have at £500 and another at £1,000. The Council been enjoyed by three or four different have 10,000 properties rated basically at £10 owners. If somebody has capitalised on each, giving them their basic revenue of the improvements, the land should be placed £100,000. To find the additional £20,000 for on the same basis as other land for valuation Budget purposes it could be portioned out in purposes. proportion to the capital values determined Mr. Hugbes: That does not overcome by the Valuer-General. Taking again the two the anomaly of a variation in values as properties valued by the Valuer-General at between the land of a permanent home­ £500 and £1,000 respectively, each property owner and the block next door owned by owner is faced with the basic rate of £10, to a speculator. which could be added 3d. in the £1 on the Valuer-General's valuation in order to meet Mr. HOUGHTON: If my suggestion was the extra £20,000. That is to say, the property adopted, it would, because the speculator valued at £500 would attract an extra 500 would benefit only once, and if the buyer threepences over and above the basic rate of remained on his land for 15 years the £10, while that valued at £1,000 would attract invisible improvements would be absorbed an extra 1,000 threepences over and above and the land could then be treated normally the basic £10. I feel that that would be an for valuation purposes. equitable way of attaching rates to properties Mr. Walsb: Your argument is that the and would not prove to be a hardship for expenditure is recouped over that period? pensioners. Mr. HOUGHTON: Yes. The problem With commercial and industrial sites the is a little more difficult when we are deal­ additional impost could be easily absorbed ing with rural land. I think a greater and, if the local authority so desired, such period should be set for rural land. A areas could be zoned or classified to over­ man improves his property, by ringbarking, come any problem that might arise. draining or other invisible improvements. The time has arrived when, unless some The Valuer-General does not pay any heed action is taken to face this problem, many to it. The more he improves his land the property-owners, particularly pensioners, will greater is the hardship for the owner. be driven off their properties. I do not know Time should be allowed for the basic where they will go after they reach far­ principles of rural-development valuation to western parts of the State. I have no doubt be absorbed. Many factors affect valuation that public servants could work out a scheme in rural areas such as underground drains. along the lines I suggest. It would be very If there is any doubt about invisible improve­ beneficial and effective. Such a formula would ments the land holder can be called upon to be equitable and I ask the Government to submit an accurate record to be used by the consider it seriously. I think there should be Valuer-General in making his valuation. a basic rate and that for the extra revenue I come now to another important matter, to meet the Budget the rate should be accord­ the qualifications of valuers. It has been ing to the Valuer-General's determination. commented upon in the Press from time to Another suggestion I make is that we time. It is most important that people get away from the present method of deter­ engaged in this profession should be fully mining the unimproved value. A site value conversant with all conditions, that they should be taken. I could give many should be fully qualified to undertake this instances in Queensland to illustrate my important work. There should be a register point. One is the Rankin Estate at South­ of all valuers who are competent and capable port, near the Jubilee Bridge. Years ago of determining values. I am an approved it was a mangrove swamp. It was filled valuer but I am not permitted to make and the area has been brought up to a valuations in Brisbane. If a prudent valuer very high standard. The Valuer-General's makes a valuation outside his area he deter­ valuation of each block might be, say, mines it on the basic information supplied £300, compared with £400 for a block to him by a person fully aware of the values where no filling has been done. I suggest in the area. I could not accurately deter­ a time limit should be set so that those mine valuations say in the Cooktown area unseen improvements are not taken into because I would not be fully conversant account in perpetuity. with the valuations there. I may have a 856 Supply [ASSEMBLY} Supply rough idea about them, but the people in sincere and very approachable and prepared the area would know more about them than to carry out their role honestly. I intend no say a person from the Valuer-General's reflection on the Valuer-General or on the Department. Let us be realistic. If the Minister in charge of the department. Valuer-General sends a valuer from Brisbane to Cooktown and he is a prudent valuer, Let me give an illustration from my own area of the sort of thing I want to draw the he should be sure that he is fully informed Committee's attention to. The year before of all relevant details before he determines last the Valuer-General determined the valu­ the value of any parcel of land there. ation of one parcel of land for rating pur­ Mr. Walsh: He must do that, because his poses at £100. We sought to acquire the land value stands the test in the Land Appeal for drainage purposes and, in fairness to the Court. owner, we asked the Valuer-General to value it for resumption purposes and his figure Mr. HOUGHTON: The hon. member may was £1,100. So he valued it at £100 for say that, but we all know how they stood up rating purposes and £1,100 for resumption to the last tests. I will leave that to the purposes. I should say that the true value Committee to judge. of the site is £1,100. That is the difficulty Mr. Walsh: That was only one of that confronts us. It should be possible to thousands. adopt a formula to iron out all these prob­ lems, and, instead of having one property Mr. HOUGHTON: When I say that, I am owner enjoying the advantage of such a low not saying anything derogatory of the person valuation for rating purposes as against a who carried out the valuation. high one for resumption, his block would If the Valuer-General is charged with the attract such a valuation that he would pay responsibility of valuing a whole area, it his full and fair share for any other develop­ might be a different matter, but valuers are ment of the area over and above the require­ sent all over the place. Valuers are sent ments of the local authority's budget. from Brisbane to other parts of the State, Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (4.4 p.m.): and they can value only on the information The financial and other statements by the given to them on arrival. Treasurer are among the most apologetic and Mr. Walsh: You would do the same thing dreary ever to come from the Government if you went to Bundaberg. benches. The issue that brought about the tragic state of affairs that led to this Govern­ Mr. HOUGHTON: The same principle ment's taking office had no relation to any applies. talents of this Government or the parties He formulates his value on the basic comprising it. As a matter of fact, the factors and determines the value of a parcel Government could very easily and very of land without considering all the relevant properly be described as an accidental factors. government, and it was a bad accident for Mr. Hilton: Are not average sales a big Queensland when they were elected. They factor in determining valuations? have no talent and no merit; nor have they developed any ability. It could be truthfully Mr. HOUGHTON: Up to a point. said that in their few years of office they I trust that the Minister will give serious have deteriorated with experience. They consideration to what I have suggested obtained office only by intrigue and by nego­ because the matter is of paramount impor­ tiating with people who were prepared to tance to everybody and the introduction of desert the Australian Labour Party and assist such a system as I have outlined would them. overcome the problem of home-owners being They also made a great many promises, and forced to leave a locality because of the perhaps this induced a few people to vote for impact of increased local authority rates on them. The only promise they kept faithfully land valued at a high figure, say £1,000, by was the promise that they would look after the Valuer-General. The valuation of land anybody who helped them to defeat the Aus­ for business or commercial use is a horse tralian Labour Party by deserting it. To the of a different colour. credit-or discredit-of the Premier and his I feel keenly about the present situation colleagues, they have honoured that promise and I hope the Minister will study my sug­ to the hilt, even though they may have done gestions or have his departmental officers go so at the expense of the taxpayers. As I through them. Certainly it is vital to have said, they have honoured no other promise, the Valuer-General removed from Ministerial and they have treated with contempt their instruction on valuation. most faithful adherents over many years. Mr. Richter: He is not instructed now. The section of the Government that describes itself as the Liberal Party has a Mr. HOUGHTON: Well, as regards any very strong prejudice against country people. remark, it is uppermost in the minds of If it were not for country electorates, the many people that the Minister instructs him Government would not be in power. As one what to do. I say without fear of contra­ moves round the country it is evident that diction that I think the officers of the people who have been life-long supporters of Department of the Valuer-General are very the so-called Country Party are heartily sick Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 857 of hearing promises that are never fulfilled no future tense about it; it is past tense and seeing the introduction of sectional legis­ because at that time the hon. gentleman did lation. The Liberal Party is diametrically bring us to tears. We believed in his sincerity opposed to most of the beliefs of the Country and honesty of purpose. We had to concede Party, but the parties have in common a that perhaps we had not done our full hatred of the Labour Party and a contempt duty in the consideration of this great social for those who might be described as the evil that he condemned so eloquently. Little working classes, the useful people in the did we dream that within the course of five community. Those people include white­ or six years the very man who was preaching collar workers, farmers, waterside workers, against and condemning this evil would miners-all those who really toil and do a embrace it and use part of the proceeds useful job--and no Government have shown from it to pay for some of the tragic more contempt for them than the present mistakes his Government had made. In his regime. They should be roundly condemned Financial Statement he predicts that the State for their attitude. Numerically the Country will benefit to the extent of £1,000,000 in Party is stronger than the Liberal Party, but a full year and £500,000 for the balance they are hopelessly outclassed in political of this financial year. Let us see where the tactics and intrigue and are really under the morality is. This is the man who was domination of the minority group. professing such a high standard of morality. I should forgive him if he were some of The Budget that we are now debating is the other Government members who, at least, typical of what could be expected from such have the decency not to place themselves a hotch-potch crew, who have only succeeded on a pedestal much higher than they could in bringing the State into disrepute. In his ever attain. As Treasurer he is prepared to four years as Treasurer, the hon. member take a percentage of the money that is for Chatsworth has been deficient in the wagered in bets. Taking the case of a bank accounts of the State, and he deserves the clerk or some other trusted employee who soubriquet of "Tom the Deficit Man." might embezzle say, £100, we have not been His vocation in private life has been that told what percentage the Government intend of accountant and auditor, a guardian of to extract from it, but, assuming it is 5 per business or commercial rectitude, to whom cent., the Treasurer will not come in for even minor irregularities would have been 5 per cent. of the winnings or losings over distasteful. Older hon. members will a period but for a percentage of the turn­ remember his oration on the evils of betting. over, which anyone who has had anything I am sure the Premier will remember what to do with commerce or business affairs will he said when he was sitting beside him. He know, is a much higher percentage, in the final analysis, than if only a percentage of told us of all the misery and broken homes the profits were taken. that have been brought about by betting on horse racing. Let me read from Boiled down it simply means that 95 per "Hansard" what he said- cent of the £100 embezzled will go to the "In the years I have been practising my bookmaker and £5 to the Government and profession as an accountant I have come the unfortunate weakling who took it will go across a limited number of cases of finan­ to gaol. If the Premier and his colleagues cial crashes. In some instances the man get any satisfaction out of that I am sure has made a complete and utter mess of nobody on this side of the Chamber will his own financial affairs and in other cases begrudge it to them. there has been a bad breach of trust by an employee, in the course of which he Mr. Walsh: For all the Trust Funds they has embezzled money, and has had to be have embezzled they should be in gaol long dealt with. It is my experience that, of ago. all the factors that can unsettle a man's life and can lead to those things, horse­ Mr. BURROWS: The hon. member for racing and betting on horse-racing is by Bundaberg mentions Trust Funds that they far the major one." have embezzled. They started off in the Dr. Noble: They tell me the worst form same way as the first 6d. embezzled under of gambling is the one-armed bandits in criminal law is taken. The hon. member for New South Wales. Windsor would know that if it was an ordinary civilian who shared in the spoils Mr. BURROWS: Yes. I will come to that. of the embezzlement he would be in the dock The hon. gentleman will remember when with the other unfortunate man who had that oration was delivered by the Treasurer. taken the money. We were on the other side of the Chamber and he was over here. We listened to Mr. Smith: I would not go as far as to him in shame and silence. I can still recall say that. how one hon. member stuck his hand into his pocket and pulled out a Casket ticket Mr. BURROWS: If he was not in the dock which he tore into ribbons as if it were a with the embezzler he would be up as a how-to-vote card of one of his opponents. receiver of stolen goods. The hon. member for Windsor interjected about bringing people to tears. There is Mr. Smith: Who is he? 858 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. BURROWS: The man who took a The Treasurer in his apologetic and plaus­ share of the booty-the man that the hon. ible manner tried to excuse the deficit, one member's colleagues so eloquently described. of the main reasons, according to him, being But that is not enough! Another pillar of the effects of credit control. He said- rectitude is the Minister for Justice. What "The effect of credit controls had its a travesty-Minister for Justice! greatest impact on revenues derived from Mr. Walsh: Minister for no justice. Stamp, Succession and Probate Duties." Mr. BURROWS: That would be more He blamed credit control for the reduction in correct. To get further funds to replace collections under that heading, and listed it those dissipated by the Government, by their as one of the causes of the deficit. In the extravagant waste in many respects, we have year prior to the Government's ta~ing off\ce another Minister, the Minister for Justice, to revenue from probate and successiOn duties whom we looked up in private life and was £2 913 723. This year it was £4,003,611. for whom we had the greatest respect, A co~padson of receipts this . year wi!h intending to help his colleague by introducing receipts last year reveals an . m<;:reas~ m another Bill imposing a 50 per cent. increase virtually every item. All the pnnc1p~l Ite~s in tax on the unfortunate drunk. have shown an increase. The Premier Will remember how boldly and loudly he claimed Dr. Noble: You voted for it. that if his Government got into power they would abolish Land tax. We find that. there Mr. BURROWS: I did not vote for it. has been an increase of 20 per cent. m the Dr. Noble: You were sitting on this side amount collected in land tax this year com­ of the Chamber. pared with the year before the present Gov­ ernment came to office. The amount collected Mr. BURROWS: Let the hon. gent. not is more than has been collected by a~y worry about that. Let us analyse the previous government. All hon. members wlll morality in it. The Minister for Health and remember the great plans ~hat were ~ade, or Home Affairs is a medical man--or we how they were going to Improve thmgs for hope he is-and he knows that it has been the land owner, how Sir William Payne was confirmed by medical opinion generally that to be appointed to bring down a formula to drunkenness or alcoholism is a disease. eliminate the anomalies of the man on the When a man reaches that particular stage land. There would be no more extravagant we are told that he is sick, that he has to rents, no more inconsistencies. Today, there be pitied; he is suffering from a disease. is more discontent among landholders than He is the man who will be paying this ever before, under a Labour Governme.nt. tax, a tax that has been more than doubled What has been the relief from e::ccessJve since the Government took office. I ask the and extortionate rents by the Prer~uer and Premier whether that gives him any satis­ his colleagues? Land revenue has mcreased faction, even if it will allow the Treasurer under this Government by 55 per cent.; to balance his Budget? Can the Govern­ stamp duties have jumped 60 per <;:ent.; ment not find means of achieving that result probate fees by 37 per cent. All those Items more honourably than slugging the drunk or were to be reduced by this Government. sharing the spoils of the embezzler? Collections from stock-owners and other Nothing can be gained by beating about primary producers have risen by 32 per Cef!L the bush or wearing the silly grin that I Those are important items of revenue m see on the face of one Minister. I am being the Consolidated Revenue account, but they factual. Government members are fortunate are only a few of the increases that indus!rY in not having a conscience. Anyone with has had to bear for the privileg~ of keepmg scruples or morals would not be happy at an incompetent Government m offi<;:e, a the action they are taking. A great American Government that have brazenly and Impu­ President once said, "I would rather be dently done this State irreparable damage honest than be President." I would rather over the past four years by- be honest and sleeping in the Domain than be dishonest on the Government benches if Dissipating its public funds; that was the only way in which I could be Aggravating industrial relations by sure of remaining there. meddlesome legislation; I have referred to the worst examples of Alienating its public lands; improper and immoral taxes. Other sectional Destroying efficiency and curtailing the taxes imposed by them are not as immoral, activities of the Railway Department; nevertheless they are bad. The history of Attacking primary producers with savage the Government reveals that of the increase sectional taxes; in taxation since they assumed office 85 per Discouraging decentralisation and closer cent. has been at the expense of primary settlement; producers and the irony of it is that they Creating unemployment; and are primarily responsible for the Govern­ By legislation forecast in .the Financial ment's being in office. Since they came to Statement will encourage cnme and vice power four years ago revenue has increased as a means of increasing revenue. from £85,158,100 for the year prior to their election, to £108,816,921 in the last year, yet This year the Treasurer is attacking.the betting they are forced to admit that they have no public and the unfortunate alcohohcs. SOf!1e­ likelihood of ever balancing the Budget. one mentioned that the Treasurer was weanng Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 859 a red carnation. To his credit, he did not at Rockhampton, and 46,504 at Gladstone­ have the audacity to wear a white one. By and many others are railed to southern interjection, the Minister for Health and markets. Home Affairs said that we have not intro­ If the Rockhampton people do not want duced the poker machines, or the one-armed an abattoir there, I should like the hon. bandits, as they are called. If they continue member for Rockhampton South to know in office, it will only be a matter of time that we should be very happy to see one before they resort to that, unless the electors established in Gladstone. The closer it realise the tragedy and incapability of the is to a large number of people, the better, Government. If they are to continue in and the ideal place for an abattoir would office they will be resorting to that and I he at Bajool, which is 20 miles south of shudder to think what other sources of Rockhampton, or about half way between revenue they will then devise. Rockhampton and Port Alma, a port through I am sorry the hon. member for Rock­ which they could export to the interstate hampton South is not in the Chamber. I market. In my opinion, the shipping of do not want to indulge in personalities as he meat from Central Queensland to Sydney did in his speech when he insinuated that and Melbourne has great possibilities, and anyone who had not looked down the muzzle J think that will be done in the near future. of a gun was not a hero. The parliamen­ Jf Rockhamoton does not want an abattoir, tarians I regard as having courage are those I respectfully suggest that the Abattoir Board who will say in the Chamber what they say should come to Gladstone. We will wel­ to their electors. I am sorry that the hon. come them with open arms. I do not member for Rockhampton South does not want to ram my opinions and beliefs down come within that category. He has attacked the throats of hon. members, but these the proposal to establish an abattoir in are my opinions. The hon. member for Rockhampton. He took the opportunity in Roma said something about graziers, and his oration to show that he is a real good he is an ex-grazier. The arguments in servant of vested interests in the form of favour of an abattoir from the graziers' Vestey Bros., the firm that has a strangle­ point of view have been outlined by Mr. hold on the meat industry in Central Queens­ R. S. Wilson, one of the biggest cattle­ land and that is holding Central Queensland men in Central Queensland and a man back. who, it must b.e conceded, has made a great success of his calling. I shall not Mr. Ewan: You sell your fat cattle to read all he had to say in this newspaper Vesteys. article, but referring to abattoirs he said- Mr• .BURRO\VS: If the hon. member will "A district abattoir will benefit the only be patient I will quote to him some producers of the district by making avail­ remarks by a really genuine dyed-in-the­ able facilities for killing on owners' wool grazier. account. It will create competition for available cattle by encouraging more The hon. member for Rockhampton South buyers-the meat operators-into the contradicted himself. He began by extolling saleyards and paddocks. More money the potentialities of Central Queensland for directly to the producers means more the production of beef cattle. Only last year. money circulating in the district and we remember, he was so enthusiastic about increased prosperity and work for all. a subject that he did not know anything "A service works at Rockhampton will about that the hon. member for Fassifern, create direct employment in the abattoir who could not stand it any longer, told him and extra employment in the establish­ in disgust that he did not know what he was ments of additional meat exporting talking about. The hon. member for Rock­ organisations. A step-up in the develop­ hampton South was going to run 10 beasts ment of crop fattening will make more to the acre under some East Street, Rock­ work available both on the land and hampton, scheme of his. He made wild in the town industries supplying the land­ statements giving figures. As a matter of holders' needs. fact he also said- "Will a district abattoir increase costs "We are already producing 2,250,000 to the consumer? The only authorita­ beef cattle annually in Central Queens­ tive answer to this is to be found in land." the experience of other cities-that answer Of course, those figures are beyond the is 'No'. It decreases costs, if suitably dreams or the imaginings of the most constructed and allowed to operate com­ ambitious commonsense man in Central petitively, such as the only comparative Queensland or in any other part of Australia. district abattoir, which is Toowoomba." However, we will not dispute the fact that Central Queensland carries a great He goes on to say- number of beef cattle. From calcula­ "A public abattoir is a service works tions I have made it supplies about not concerned with satisfying the demands 250,000 head to the markets annually. of its shareholders." Of that 250,000, 136,189 were treated at I should mention that Mr. Wilson is a meatworks in Central Queensland-89,685 very prominent member of the Country 860 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Party. As I said, he is a man who has a his own colleagues as being anti-progressive. very thorough knowledge of the industry Only a short while ago the Premier had to in which he has been engaged over the rebuke him publicly for something he said years and in which he has been so success­ about the Government, which, to his surprise, ful. He went on to say- was published. When he comes down here "It will treat stock for all meat opera­ he tells the Government, "We do not want tors and will assure that all cuts, and new industries in Central Queensland." I not only the cuts which are not suit­ tell the Treasurer and the Premier through able for export, will be made available you, Mr. Taylor, that we want many more to the people of Rockhampton." industries in Central Queensland than we Those statements are not made by an A.L.P. have and, if any government, irrespective man, although they are statements with of their political colour, introduce one extra which every A.L.P. man is in accord. As industry there, I will not be behind the door I said previously they are made by a in complimenting them for doing so. I practical man. When the hon. member for will not go behind their backs to condemn Rockhampton South gets up and contradicts them if they do not. him on such a subject I respectfully submit I challenge the hon. member for Rock­ that he is giving an exhibition of ignorance. hampton South to reply later on to these arguments put forward, not by me, whom There is not the slightest doubt that he he would perhaps accuse of being prejudiced was speaking for Vesteys. Vesteys' meat­ by party affiliations, but by Mr. Wilson, at works are virtually obsolete. They are built the graziers' association meeting in Rock­ on the wrong side of the river. When the hampton a short while ago, and by M!· meatworks were built we had shallow-draft Pearce the grazier chairman of the abattmr vessels that could come up the river to board ' all men who have a superior and Rockhamptan. No-one knows better than better' knowledge of the cattle industry, with the hon. member for Rockhampton South all due respect, than any hon. member in that the river has silted up. The hon. this Chamber. member knows the river policy that was agreed upon. He is a member of the harbour Mr. GILMORE (Tablelands) (4.48 p.m.): board that decided to close the river. Our weak and slandering Opposition have Vesteys' meatworks are on the wrong side once again exhibited the qualities for w~ich of the river, the saleyards are on the they are now quite renowned. We have JUSt western side at Gracemere. They have to listened to one of their most able orators. take cattle from Gracemere down and across When we look at the substance of this the river to treat them, then bring them back amendment it appears that it is bound up from Lakes Creek across the river again. with disagreement with one of the items in They have to take them 42 miles altogether the Budget, but I have not yet heard anyone to get to a point of shipment. Abattoirs on the other side suggest that any vote should at Gracemere or Bajool would be much more be reduced. We have heard from them much economic because the cattle could be taken talk about unemployment and about the in a straight line. Vesteys realise that an expenditure that has taken place but, when abattoirs built there would have a big advan­ unemployment is at a high level, that is the tage from the buying point of view. They are logical time for the Government to spend, determined to use every means at their and that is exactly what is being done in disposal to prevent the building of the this Budget. abattoirs. We cannot have it both ways. Abattoirs are just as necessary in Rock­ When private industry is incapable of hampton as in Brisbane. There is no doubt balancing employment with production, that abattoirs could be run more efficiently the Government can, with advantage, than the Vesteys' works are run now. They utilise the services of the unemployed are regarded as being the worst employer in on productive and national projects. Central Queensland. I am not going to That is exactly what the Government is enter into personalities, but if ever there was doing; it is revealed in the Budget. an evil influence in Central Queensland, one that is retarding development, it is Vesteys' Unemployment has been at a high level, influence. In my opinion that influence has and the expenditure of all departments had done more to keep Central Queensland back to be increased to relieve it. Owing to than any politician of any political colour drought and other factors the Government who has ever sat in the Queensland Parlia­ are not able to balance their Budget, and ment. They are bending all their efforts to that is to be regretted. We have no control prevent the putting into effect of this pro­ over droughts. They have occurred before gressive, hygienic, common-sense proposal and they will happen again. that would be to the benefit of the people The people of the State must get great of Central Queensland. In addition, as satisfaction from the mighty effort of the Mr. Wilson put it, it would serve the indus­ Department of Education. We remember the try by catering for interstate and overseas difficulties experienced in the fields of markets as well. education and housing when a Labour Whilst he is in Rockhampton the hon. government were in office. Great improve­ member for Rockhampton South condemns ments have been made since then. We Supply [19 OCTOBER} Supply 861 confidently look forward to the recommen­ Mr. TUCKER: I rise to apoint of order. dations of the select committee that inquired I did not condemn the project. I ask the into education. I am told by experts in hon. member to withdraw his remark. the field that we can expect the greatest revolutionary measures in education ever The CHAIRMAN: Will the hon. member known in Queensland. please mention the remark that he wishes to be withdrawn? Mr. Davies interjected. Mr. TUCKER: That I condemned that beef Mr. Aikens (to Mr. Davies): The greatest road. blow to education in this State was your election to Parliament. The CHAIRMAN: I ask the hon. member for Condamine to accept the assurance of The CHAIRMAN: Order! Will the hon. the hon. member for Townsville North that member for Townsville South and the hon. he did not condemn that beef road. member for Maryborough cease speaking to one another across the Chamber? Mr. Sullivan: I accept his assurance. Mr. GILMORE: I apologise to the hon. Mr. GILMORE: The graziers in the Gulf ~ember for Townsville South for interrupting Country are unable to get their beef to market him. in prime condition simply because they cannot The Health Vote is something of which get them there quickly. Our Federal any govern!?ent would. be proud. Despite Government have done a great deal to bring all the weavmg and wavmg of the Opposition stability to Australia and while the Labour the Health Vote is a record, a fact that Party join with the Commos., the present must be very disappointing to hon. members Federal Government will always be there. opposite. Mr. DAVIES: I rise to a point of order. There is also an increase in the Vote for The hon. member for Tablelands has stated the Department of Agriculture and Stock. that the Labour Party has joined forces with Personally, I should like to see the Vote the Communists. His statement is objection­ even bigger because our primary industries, able to me and my colleagues and I ask for more than ever, need the benefits to be its withdrawal. derived from scientific development. I do The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member not suggest that any Vote should be reduced knows the subject matter on which he can in order to increase the Vote for Agriculture rise to a point of order. If an hon. member and Stock. Would any hon. member suggest makes an accusation against another hon. that the Vote for Housing should be reduced? member and it is distasteful to him, he I ~~ ve_ry proud of the development of may ask for it to be withdrawn, but he electncity m Queensland and the extension is not obliged to withdraw a statement made ?f such benefits to country areas, where it about a body of people. IS most needed. We are pushing ahead with the Barron Falls Hydro-Electric Scheme at Mr. GILMORE: I did not intend to drag the fastest possible rate. this issue into the debate, but it is just as well to let hon. members opposite know The main roads of Queensland have been where they stand in the eyes of the public. It transformed. The standards in North is just as well to let them know that they Queensland are far higher than those set by think that the A.L.P. is dominated by the Labour Governments. Communist Party. Mr. Sullivan: Members of the Opposition These roads will serve the beef-producing say that there has been no development in areas that are now being developed. The the North. Is that right? graziers are now able to take advantage of the increased prices and are therefore able . Mr: GILMORE: They do not know what to develop their holdings, fence them, provide IS gomg on in the North. They have not been there. · water, as well as amenities for their employees and themselves. They are now in a sound The Commonwealth Government are help­ financial position and they will be further ing to develop t~e Gulf Country because they advantaged when the roads are completed. are very conscious of the necessity for it. However, if the roads are not sealed that They are making £5,000,000 available to will defeat the purpose for which they are provide beef roads to help expand this intended. The sealing of the roads must be Territory. The graziers who produce beef given the highest priority. If we do not seal in that area have never been able to get them, we miglrt as well leave them as they their cattle to market in prime condition. are. They can get them out only as stores after walking the condition off them. Mr. Davies: You know they are not going to seal them. You know the Federal Govern­ Mr. Sullivan: The hon. member for Towns­ ment will not give you the money to seal vi!le North condemns the road from Nor­ them. manton to Julia Creek. Mr. GILMORE: The Federal Government Mr. GILMORE: I am not surprised at have indicated that they will build the roads that. and when further representations are made 862 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

I am confident that sealing will take place. Mr. GILMORE: Yes, the average price. Sealing is imperative, because long-distance That is due entirely to the quality of the cartage cannot be undertaken on corrugated product. I urge the Government to treat roads. this as a matter of urgency, because it is It is my experience and the experience of imperative that they do so. many others that in the development of a Dealing with the Forestry Vote, the time country such as ours we cannot pay too i·s long overdue for declaring more State much attention to irrigation and water con­ forests. Far too many of our valuable servation. When we think of Queensland and timbers have been sacrified in the hope that the size of it and are told that more rain the land could be used for maize growing. falls on a country as small as Germany than dairying, or some other form of agricultur_al on the whole of this State, it makes us realise production. Quite often land that was SUit­ that we must conserve water. We must have able for producing fine timber was not irrigation. sufficiently fertile for agriculture. Officers of the Forestry Department are capable of Mr. Dav.ies: Which way does the rain fall regulating the supply of timber to the saw­ on West Germany? mills and if we declare State forests we Mr. GILMORE: The hon. member would can, ' by natural regeneration and s\lvicul­ be more interested in the red rain that falls tural practices, assure timber supplies of on East Germany. the highest quality for generations to corn~. If we delay, we shall have great gaps 1ll In the Mareeba-Dimbulah area at the our forests. Because former Labour Govern­ moment we have a golden opportunity to ments opened land for settlement that should bring a vast area of land into production. never have been opened, farmers have gone Mr. Houston: Who built that darn? broke and walked off their land and it has now gone back to lantana, wild tobacco, and Mr. GILMORE: It may be recalled that, useless trees. It will never again become over the years that I have been a member of a natural forest of indigenous trees. this Assembly, 1 have given full credit to The timber industry north of Townsville those who were responsible for the planning employs 3,600 people. The value of pro­ and initial construction of the Tinaroo Falls duction of the sawmills in that area is about Dam scheme. I still do. The Labour Party £6,000,000, and the wages paid are about started it and the credit for that is theirs. £2,000,000. Royalties amount to approxi­ Leave it at that. The credit for continuing mately £700,000 in some years. it and the job of finishing it is ours. Now let us have a look at this Tinaroo JVIr. Houston: Under Labour. scheme and see what can be done. Let us Mr. GILMORE: Under Labour Govern­ look first at the sales of tobacco from the ments more timber than enough was area. There is no other product that can destroyed. There were logs in the Mallan compare with tobacco on today's market area that should never have been cut. I ask because Australia produces barely 40 per the Government to declare more State forests cent. of her requirements, so we have an before further damage is done. assured home market. Indications are that the area is the most favourable in Australia Labour has a very deplorable record in for the production of tobacco. The water is the tobacco industry. They were always eminently suitable, combined with the land, anxious to keep growers in poverty. to produce the crop. The value of the Mr. Walsh: You would not like to malign tobacco crop in the Mareeba-Dimbulah area the Scullin Government, would you? last year, under the depressed conditions prevailing, was £4.8 million, which was equal Mr. GILMORE: I should not like to to 51 per cent. of the value of the wheat go back to the Scullin Government. crop of Queensland, 270 per cent. of Aus­ In 1936 the percentage scheme was set up, tralia's peanut crop, 120 per cent. of Aus­ with 21- per cent. for cigarettes and 13 per tralia's maize crop, 108 per cent. of Aus­ cent. for tobacco. In 193 8 the cigarette per­ tralia's rice crop, and 54 per cent. of the centage went to 3 per cent. and tobacco to total value of production from the Murrum­ 15 per cent. It is significant that under Labour bidgee irrigation area. And the Mareeba­ in 1946 the cigarette percentage remained at Dimbulah scheme has not yet been fully 3 per cent. but we suffered a reduction to exploited. There is much to be done and a 5 per cent. in tobacco. They were the Labour great deal more money is required. It is for Government who were trying to help the us to do the job. We must not turn our growers by reducing the statutory amount backs on it. It is developing Australia. The that had to be put in! In 1953 when the crop can be readily sold, it commands a fair present Liberal-Country Party Government price and its production brings about closer got into its stride in Canberra the percentage settlement. As a matter of fact it is as close was increased to 4! per cent. for cigarettes settlement as it is possible to achieve. In that and 7t per cent. for tobacco. In 1953 it was area the sales of tobacco were 98 per cent. further increased to 6 per cent. and 10 per of the production and the price was 140d. cent., in 1954 to 6 per cent. and 12! per per lb. cent. After the shocking devastation that the Mr. Sumvan The average price? growers had to suffer by Labour's reduction Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 863 it took them years to become geared up to of the Government and the impetus of the production again, but notice how under the percentage scheme. Many people have been Menzies Government momentum was gained induced to engage in tobacco production. and maintained. I repeat that the figures in No-one can blame them for that, but no 1954 were 6 per cent. for cigarettes and guidance was available to them and in many 12t per cent. for tobacco, but here are the cases unsuitable soils were selected. Many figures for the following years- of them did not have the knowhow to Cigarettes Tobacco produce it. Per cent. Per cent. Another factor came into the picture. In 1955 7t 17t the continued dry weather, the chlorine con­ 1956 7t 17t tent of the soil to which tobacco is very 1957 12t 21 partial, rose, and the tobacco from some 1958 15t I6t good areas was carrying more than the 1959 22 23t normal quantity of chlorine. Many of them 1960 28t 24t were also using a soil fumigant, Ethel Di 1961 35 32 Bromide known as E.D.B. about which little 1 July, 1962 43 40 is known of its chemical reaction in the That shows how the industry has grown soil. It has now been found that it com­ because of its fostering by the Menzies bines with chlorine and creates a condition Government, in contrast with the reduction in the leaf very similar to that created by it suffered under Labour. The Labour Party chlorine. It renders the leaf an immature introduced the Australian Tobacco Board type and it will not mature under the during the war. Whom did they put in mechanised dryer treatment. In fact, the charge of it? The head buyer of B.A.T. was longer the leaf is kept the sourer it becomes. the No. 1 appraiser, the second buyer was the We were assured by the Commonwealth second appraiser and the third buyer and Government, when they realised this position, appraiser was the third man. The growers that they would not allow the percentage had one representative. system to be used to encourage production in unfavourable areas. We had no argument The Australian Tobacco Board was main­ against that because, as we said, we want tained for some years after the war. It was an industry on a quality basis. If there not until 1948 that it was abandoned by the is an argument against that, I do not know Commonwealth Government. Let me give what it is. I think that quality in any the Committee the story. I was representing industry should be the dominating factor. the growers as a substitute on the A.T.B. I I have the utmost sympathy for people who went to Canberra-incidentally at my own put their money in thinking that they had expense. I met the Minister for Agriculture the protection of this percentage scheme and and Stock there, the Hon. Reg. Pollard, a that anything they produced, good, bad or Labour man. He is still in the House of indifferent, would be sold. The Common­ Representatives. He said he would not wealth Government are not prepared to do relinquish the marketing of tobacco in it and therefore we have to take other steps Queensland or Australia. He still wanted to to render assistance. keep it under National Security Regulations. My argument was, "How would a few Mr. Houston: Who determines whether it struggling tobacco farmers endanger the is fit for sale or not? nation's security?" He said he would not do Mr. GILMORE: A committee set up by it. the Commonwealth Government, composed Hon. members may recall that the Butter of manufacturers, State experts and market­ Board put the Commonwealth Government ing organisation appraisers. These appraisers through the High Court and proved that have gone throughout Australia and in last they could escape from the same position. Saturday's newspaper I read that the Right Our Minister for Agriculture and Stock will Hon. John McEwen had said that their confirm that. The Commonwealth Govern­ report on the tobacco was that it was mainly ment, under Labour, had to be challenged unusable, that it was of doubtful quality at to release the dairy farmers. best and that he was not prepared to support On this occasion I said to Mr. Pollard, an application from the Victorian tobacco­ "If you don't do it, the tobacco industry growers to re-dry it. The expert committee will apply to the High Court." Incidentally, has investigated the unsold tobacco and has we did not have two bob with which to condemned it. Manufacturers have not the go to the High Court. Nevertheless, we power to condemn it, nor have growers the came back and would not open the selling power to applaud it. The committee does floor. He had to abandon it. We went the job. I am not here to criticise the mem­ to auction, and the price went from 34d. bers of it. I have never attended even to 64d. That is what happened under the one of its meetings. auction system and what Labour did to the tobacco growers. Mr. Houston: Do you agree with their decision, knowing the leaf? Today, the tobacco growers have encoun­ tered another problem-that of enlarged Mr. GILMORE: In regard to some. There production under the sympathetic treatment is some that I should say is doubtful. 864 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. Houston: What about the leaf Mr. GILMORE: On my interpretation of presented in the House the other day? football there must be a field and there must be players. Political football is very Mr. GILMORE: I did not see it. hard to define. The hon. member for Cairns is not even in the game. He is not playing. Mr. Wallace interjected. He is a member of a weak and feeble Opposition that know nothing, and are Mr. GILMORE: The hon. member for Communist dominated-every bit of them. Cairns who could be referred to as the They are not even in the game. Who would wandering member for Cairns-- play football with people like that? I know these people up north-people toiling in the Mr. Davies: Why do you call him that? sun. I have worked for 30 years for the Mr. GILMORE: He wanders everywhere growers to take the women and kiddies out but in his own electorate. The other day of the paddocks. Does the hon. member he wandered up to the electorate of the hon. think I would put them back now? member for Cook. I do not interject during Mr. Wallace interjected. his speech if he criticises me, but he, with others, when the ball is thrown back, becomes The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member for anxious and nervous and chews his nails Cairns must contain himself otherwise I shall in case I say something cruel. I am not be obliged to describe his conduct as that sort of person. The growers on the disorderly and I will have to deal with him. Aerodrome are just as much entitled to water from the Tinaroo scheme as any other Mr. Davies: He provokes us by calling us growers. I made representations on their Communists. behalf, in an effort to get water for them. I am fully aware of the difficulties confront­ The CHAffiMAN: I will deal with the ing them. I presented their case to the best hon. member for Maryborough if he persists of my ability, but owing to certain factors in his conduct. I have not been able to help them to date. A certain amount of money is allocated for Mr. GILMORE: The hon. member for channels in the Tinaroo scheme. It is only Cairns may correct me if I am wrong, but fair and just that people who have waited I understood him to say that I was the for years for water to be channelled to their chief beneficiary. farms, and have no other access to water Mr. WALLACE: I rise to a point of order now, should be the first to receive it. Those to make an explanation. I said that the who have some water and can carry on are tobacco growers said that because the hon. generous enough to concede that that is so. member holds a dual position the tobacco It is not a matter of "Blow you, Joe." It industry had become a political football a~d is a matter of "Let us help all we can as they believed the hon. member. was the chief quickly as we possibly can." That is what beneficiary. I did not say 1t at all; the I stand for and that has always been my tobacco farmers did. attitude. As soon as money is available I will be the first to see that the water goes Mr. GILMORE: The hon. member would to these Aerodrome farms. It is a particu­ not like to say it! larly good area and by and large the farmers there produce good tobacco. Some do not, Mr. Wallace: I will say anything to you, but on the whole those farmers are skilled any time. men and they are entitled to water. On the The CHAffiMAN: Order! Will the hon. other hand there are skilled farmers who member please be seated. I ask the hon. have no water. I believe that the Aerodrome member for Tablelands to accept the explana­ farmers would take the view that everybody tion of the hon. member for Cairns. should get a little water rather than that they should get the lot. I have been chided, Mr. GILMORE: As Chairman of a respon­ and I suppose there is some political ambition sible industry and being in a responsible posi­ behind it. We have heard from the hon. tion, I take strong exception- member for Cairns that as I hold office in the Queensland Tobacco Leaf Marketing Mr. WALLACE: I rise to a point of order. Board I should resign because I am also their He has not accepted my explanation. representative in this Assembly. I think that is the substance of his remark. The CHAffiMAN: There is no point of order. I will be forced to deal with the hon. Mr. Wallace: I have said that is the member. opinion of the majority of the growers. Because of your dual capacity they believe Mr. GILMORE: I take strong exception that the tobacco industry has become a to any reflection being cast on a Queensl~nd political football. Marketing Board. I resent any reflectiOn on the members of that Board, and I resent The CHAIRMAN: Order! I must ask the reflection cast on every grower by the the hon. member for Cairns to cease inter­ remark that they would elect a man who rupting. I should like to hear the hon. would use his position for his own advantage. member for Tablelands present his case. If the hon. member for Cairns feels as he Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 865 says others do-and I believe that only a Hon. John McEwen and the Hon. Charles man who has something to hide would say, Adermann and all their officers. I begged "I heard somebody say it"-- them to hold a meeting but it was held in Adelaide after my departure. All the Mr. W ALLACE: I rise to a point of order. Ministers for Agriculture were present at it. The hon. member is trying to indict me. I did everything humanly possible, and I When I have an opinion to give, I will give am sure the growers know it because of it. The other day when I was speaking I the welcome home I got the other day. said that was the opinion of the tobacco But let it not be forgotten I am chairman growers. When I have something to say to of this marketing board. I went overseas the hon. member I will say it. on a holiday and, in the course of that The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. holiday, I inspected tobacco-growing in member for Tablelands to accept the explana­ Germany and other parts of Europe. I tion of the hon. member for Cairns. I ask deliberately went to Canada and studied the hon. member for Tablelands to deal with their industry. I went to America-to the matter, as stated by the hon. member Virginia, North Carolina and Kentucky. I for Cairns, that that was an explanation went into every aspect of their industry. given by the tobacco growers. And I discovered that we in Queensland have the world's best tobacco-growers. They Mr. GILMORE: I will accept his apology. stand out above everything else. Mr. WALLACE: I rise to a point of Mr. Evans: And you paid your own order. I want the hon. member to accept my explanation. I did not apologise to way, too. anyone. Mr. GILMORE: That is true. I thank the Minister for the interjection. Let any­ Mr. GILMORE: This snide way of body show me a leader of any industry attacking an industry-- who has ever gone overseas on a fact­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! Will the hon. finding mission at his own cost. Before member for Cairns please keep quiet and going I asked for leave of absence. It will the hon. member for Tablelands please was granted by the Minister and I did not say he accepts the explanation of the hon. receive a penny of the chairman's allow­ member for Cairns! ances while I was away. Could a man do more for his industry? Then to come here Mr. GILMORE: In deference to you, Mr. and be criticised by this rabble! Taylor, I must accept that. I believe­ and I feel very strongly on this-that a The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. great disservice has been done to an industry. member will not refer to any members of No doubt in politics we become subject to Parliament as a rabble. I ask him to with- criticism. I accept that as a man in public draw that remark. life but I abhor snide practices and shots in the dark. Opposition Members interjected. Mr. Wallace: There are no shots in The CHAIRMAN: Order! the dark about me. I bring it right out in the open. Mr. GILMORE: The rambling hon. mem­ ber for Cairns has been in the electorates Mr. GILMORE: If the hon. member of other hon. members. Let us see what feels that way let him come out in the is going on in his electorate. The Commo.­ street and say it and see what sort of dominated wharf-Jumpers' union and the reception he will get. Commo.-dominated meatworkers' union have T was criticised in this Chamber. It lately tied up the products for export of was said that I deserted my growers when one of the biggest industries in his electorate. they were in trouble. Let us look at the Mr. Wallace: Are you insinuating that all facts. I went overseas on a trip. It took meatworkers and waterside workers are nearly two years to organise it. I did Communists? not keep it a secret. I told everybody. It was on the air and in the Press. I left Mr. GILMORE: I am not insinuating any­ on the Monday and on the preceding Satur­ thing. I am saying that they are dominated day I chaired a meeting of some 600 by Communists. The Communists have done growers in Mareeba and told them then. a great disservice to Australia and are in I said, "This is the position. I am going the employ of Moscow. They have wiped overseas." Originally I was booked to leave every ship off the coast. They have bludged on 1 5 March but, when the Federal Govern­ themselves out of work and then begged ment told us they would not let the per­ farmers to give them a job. At Queerah, centage system be used to bolster up meatworkers dominated by the Communist unfavourable tobacco, I delayed my depar­ Party held up the works many times. What ture for seven weeks. I saw those growers has the hon. member for Cairns done about through the worst of their troubles. I that? He has egged them on and kept them attended the Mareeba sales and I attended on strike. Now the wharf-lumpers will not the Brandon sales. I even went to Can­ load products going to a good market. a berra twice and talked with the Rt. market that we need badly. We are trying 28 866 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

to develop the North by putting in roads and every camp trying to pacify all the rebels. and improving the facilities for water con­ Even his Christian and temperance admirers servation. As soon as we get increased are now doubting his sincerity. I say that production, the masters of these people say, without fear of contradiction. The most "No, you shall not shift it." outspoken man in Cabinet would be the The rambling hon. member for Cairns Minister for Development, Mines, Main goes into an area that is well represented. Roads and Electricity. He gets up and I do not hold any brief for the hon. member attacks the Commonwealth Government. The for Cook, but I do respect him for the job next thing he says, "We must secede from he is doing for his own constituents. I the Commonwealth." In the "Telegraph" he deplore, and the people of North Queensland talks about having our own Navy and our deplore, the action of the hon. member for own little aeroplanes flying about. But can Cairns in supporting the Communist­ we trust this man? dominated Waterside Workers' Federation It is quite obvious to me that the Treasurer and the meatworkers' union. As I said leads the strong gang in Parliament today? there is not a ship on the coast today. Why "the booze and betting boys," and they are do we tolerate such things? We should not showing their force in the Government. tolerate them. We should see that the pro­ ducts are exported and that the conditions The CHAIRMAN: Order! Do I interpret of employment of the men at Queerah are the hon. member's remarks about "booze and observed. We can do this only by taking betting boys" to refer to members of a strong stand. The hon. member for Cairns Parliament? condones the action of these men. Mr. THACKERAY: Yes. Mr. THACKERAY (Rockhampton North) The CHAIRMAN: I ask the hon. member (5.38 p.m.): I support the amendment moved to withdraw it because it is not Parliamentary by the Leader of the Opposition that the language to refer to hon. members in that item "Aide-de-Camp, £1,594" be reduced by fashion. £1 and I do so for a number of reasons. Mr. THACKERAY: I withdraw in defer­ We have just witnessed a preliminary ence to your ruling. According to "The bout. The main bout is about to take place. Sunday-Mail"-- This coalition Government are a decadent Government. During their term of office The CHAIRMAN: Order! I asked the they have been torn by internal strife and hon. member to withdraw those words. di_vi~ed int_o many can;ps. There are groups w1thm their own parties. There is a rebel Mr. THACKERAY: I just withdrew them. transport group headed by the hon. mem­ Anyhow, I do not want to upset YQU too ber for Toowoomba East, who has been very much. outspoken. The hon. member for Conda­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! I think the hon. mine, well known as Slasher Sullivan who member is getting to the stage where I must believes in sacking one man in three in the ask him to resume his seat. I will allow him railways, is very outspoken in his own to procee~ but if there is any more levity electorate about what should be done about of that nature or apparent cleverness he will transport but then comes into the Chamber be immediately asked to resume his seat. and has two bob each way. Then we have Tom Hiley's Booze and Betting Boys. They Mr. THACKERAY: Yes, Mr. Taylor. are the real force to be reckoned with. Anyhow, Mr. Taylor, according to "The Sunday-Mail" the Deputy Premier of Queens­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ land is about to leave Queensland on a~count ber will address hon. members by their of ill health. It is remarkable what a great proper titles and not by name. thing illness is when the sands of time are Mr. THACKERAY: I shall refer to them running out! When you realise that the hard­ as the hon. the Treasurer's Booze and est working man in the Cabinet outside the Betting Boys. Then we have the Land Treasurer would be the Minister for Trans­ Valuation Boys headed by the hon. member port who, we understand, works until 1 and for Southport, Mr. Gaven. Last but not least 2 o'clock in the morning, and his health has is th~ Deputy Premier of Queensland, Mr. not been affected, it gives you food for Morns, who heads the "Morris manglers". thought. You would think that the Minister They supported Mr. Houghton to have him for Health and Home Affairs would have elevated-- taken a much greater interest in the health of the Deputy Premier. According to Press The CHAIRMAN: Order! If the hon. mem­ speculation things are not going too well at ber does not obey my request and speak of all between those two hon. gentlemen. While hon. members by their appropriate titles I all this sort of thing is going on in Parlia­ will ask him to resume his seat. ment we have members of the Liberal Party outside the Chamber openly slating Country Mr. THACKERAY: I should have said Party members, and vice versa. They are "the hon. member for Redcliffe". On top not just rumours, it is true. It is going on of all this we have the Premier who is well all the time. If we believe the rumours, known outside as "Frightened Frank" because the Deputy Premier is openly criticising the we see him today running around into each Premier about bonus payments at Mt. Isa. Supply (19 OCTOBER] Supply 867

Coming down on the Sunlander recently was 6,454. The percentage of our work the hon. member for Whitsunday was talking force unemployed this year is 2.9 per cent. to a railway employee. He said, "What a against 1.1 per cent. last year. wonderful Government it is! What a fair Unemployment has not been tackled; the Government it is!" The railway employee Government have not done anything about said, "I don't agree with you there. I don't it. I shall deal specifically with Rockhamp­ agree with you at all. What about all the unemployment in Queensland today?" The ton later on. iron. member for Whitsunday said, "That is In conjunction with the figures I have just Federal!" The railway employee said, "What mentioned the number of job vacancies in about the Deputy Premier? He is not very Queensland has fallen by over 100 for popular." The hon. member for Whitsunday September. An interesting article appeared said, "Oh, he is a Lib!" Those are passing in "The Courier-Mail" of Tuesday, 17 Octo­ remarks. Let me move to the Federal sphere ber, headed "Nicklin sees less work for and what the hon. member for Capricornia some." What a classical statement from a said to a deputation from the B.W.I.U. about Premier! What future is there for the unemployment. He said- 16,000 unemployed in this State, with "It is not our responsibility; it is the Christmas approaching? He goes on to State's." say, "The State would hope for special assistance from the Commonwealth." That is the merry-go-round one gets with a That is also a classical statement. Where coalition Government in Queensland. are the great fighters of the Country Party and the Liberal Party, the businessmen? Various hon. members opposite are fighting What are they doing to arrest unemployment for Cabinet rank and whilst much double­ in Queensland? crossing is taking place they are promising to support oge another for Cabinet rank. At the same time the Secretary of the If the Deputy Premier is knighted and made Queensland Employers' Federation, Mr. J. R. Sir Kenneth Morris-- J ames, made a statement with which I agree. He said that the unemployment position The CHAffiMAN: Order! I should be underlined the basic weakness in the State's pleased if the hon. member addressed him­ economy and the urgent need for more self to the Budget. Admittedly the Budget secondary industries. That is what is required debate allows wide scope of subjects but, in Queensland. as far as I can gather, most of the hon. Let me now deal with subjects closer to member's remarks up to the present have home, and at the outset analyse the speech been purely hearsay. I should be pleased of the hon. member for Rockhampton South. if he will now apply himself to the business Of all the statements ever made in the of Parliament. Queensland Parliament, this one takes top Mr. THACKERAY: I agree with your marks. It was the classic statement of a ruling, Mr. Taylor, and I shall scrap the clown. note I have here about budding ministers. The CHAffiMAN: Order! I ask the hon. Anyhow, whilst this has been going on the member a direct question. Did he refer to State has not prospered. The two parties the hon. member for Rockhampton South as in Government today are diametrically a clown? opposed to one another and, as a result of their faction fights, the State has not Mr. THACKERAY: I said it was the prospered. The solution of the problem in classic statement of a clown. I did not refer Queensland today is to return an Australian to him at all. Labour Party government in the Federal sphere on 9 December and in this State in The CHAIRMAN: Did the hon. member 1963. We are not a sectional party and refer to the hon. member for Rockhampton we do not believe in introducing legislation South? for sectional interests. We believe in Australia as a· whole and we are, undoub­ Mr. THACKERAY: I did not refer to him tedly, the Government to lead this nation. at all. In times of strain and stress, in times of war, when the Liberal boys in the Federal The CHAffiMAN: Very well. sphere ducked the issue, we were called on to take charge of the affairs of the country. Mr. PILBEAM: I rise to a point of order. I will not allow the hon. member to get One of the most serious failures of this away with a lie. I object to the remark, Government has been their failure to arrest which could refer only to me, and I ask that unemployment and to attract new industries it be withdrawn. to the State. In spite of their many published statements, the Government do not believe The CHAffiMAN: I ask the hon. member in decentralisation. I shall prove that. The for Rockhampton South to withdraw the latest unemployment figures for September word "lie." It is not a parliamentary show that the number of unemployed regis­ expression. tered recipients for social services in this State is 16,752. At the same time last year it Mr. PILBEAM: I withdraw it. 868 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Mr. THACKERAY: In view of your Department indicate that in 1959-1960, for ruling, Mr. Taylor, I withdraw my remark. the Rockhampton Statistical Division, 900 "The Morning Bulletin" of last Tuesday boys and 900 girls left school. This year it is contained an article under the heading, anticipated that 1,000 boys and 1,000 girls "Pilbeam presses claims for C.Q. Area". will leave school in that division. The Rock­ It takes up three 5-inch columns in the hampton statistical division includes south of newspaper. His remarks about the need for Mackay, out past Emerald, and takes in road allocations were quite good. Then the Gladstone, the Dawson Valley and Biloela. article deals with interjections between the What future is there for these children in hon. member and me. Although the news­ Rockhampton, the majority of whom will paper said, "Pilbeam presses claims for have a secondary education, and many of Central Queensland," let us see what he did the others a scholarship? Recently an exam­ say as recorded in "Hansard." His speech ination was conducted to fill two vacancies was a classic. He said, "The main cause of for girls in a bank, and 100 girls sat for the the deficit this year and in previous years has examination. What chance is there for all been the state of the weather." What a state­ these children to get employment this year? ment from a person who is Mayor of Rock­ Most of them are in the under-16 age group hampton and who has not been in Parliament and are not eligible for unemployment bene­ long enough to wet his feet! He went on to fits under the Social Service Act. They must say, "I do not think the Treasurer can gauge fall back on their mothers and fathers for what the weather is likely to be." I never support. thought in all sincerity that the hon. member The apprenticeship position is not good. could be so absurd in his remarks. Does he Indeed, it is far from satisfactory in ;ealise t~e P?Sition in Rockhampton? Accord­ Rockhampton and throughout Queensland. mg to him, If the Treasurer could rectify the At 30 June, 1959, the number of apprentices weather or get a prophet to assist him, we in Rockhampton was 593, and the number would have no worry about deficits no of fifth-year apprentices 129. In 1960 there worry about railway finances, there wouid be were 590 apprentices, and 151 fifth-year no .need for increases in stamp and probate apprentices. As at 30 June, 1961, there were duties, no need for land tax and no need for 572 apprentices, with 131 fifth-year appren­ the Liquor Bill or the betting tax. According tices, and 123 first-year apprentices. During to the hon. member for Rockhampton South three years there has been a decline of 21 in our fate hinges on the weather rather than the number of apprentices in Rockhampton. the Government's failure to accept their Those figures do not present a bright outlook responsibility. Even if the Government could for the children of Rockhampton, but I did control the weather, they could not overcome not hear the hon. member for Rockhampton the seasonal and permanent unemployment South speak on their behalf. He is more we now have in Queensland. interested in speaking on behalf of his boss, Central Queensland needs new industries Mr. Hinchliff, of the C.Q.M.E. One would but there is no likelihood of any being have thought that the hon. member would es~ablished unless the Government do some­ have spoken about the people of Rockhamp­ thmg about, say, a cement works there. The ton who are facing grave times. In seven hon. member for Rockhampton South did not years we have slipped from second place in press Central Queensland's claims for a the State to fifth place. We find that the cement works or a fertiliser works. We recall Gold Coast has had the greatest increase in a .further industry that the Deputy Premier population of all cities, with an increase of ~aid three years ago would be in operation 14,000, followed by Townsville and Ipswich ;n R.ockhampton very soon, the fathom fish­ with increases of 10,000, and then Too­ mg mdustry. I believe the principal of the woomba with an increase of 7,000. But fathom fishing industry was none other than Rockhampton has had an increase of only SomervilJe Smith who was sentenced to 12 3,800. The hon. member for Rockhampton months m gaol for contempt of Parliament. South, who has been the Mayor of Rock­ . The hon.. member for Rockhampton South hampton for 10 years was to set Rockhamp­ did not thmk of the boys and girls who ton afire with a glorious new era, but under would be leaving school this year. I should his regime, the population of Rockhampton, have thought a man who set out to present based on the 1954 boundaries, has risen from a .case for Central Queensland would have 40,670 in 1954 to 44,102 in 1961. Those raised all matters of interest to his area .figures prove conclusively that there has The ?uilding of a road to the West i~ been maladministration by the hon. member essential. I agree with his remarks about the for Rockhampton South, as the Mayor of barrage schefi?~ ~J?d th~ Callide powerhouse. Rockhampton. I am not cntic!S!ng him for raising those It is very pleasing to see that the Minister matters. One would think that the hon. intends to build a 150-megawatt capacity member for Rockhampton South who is so first stage powerhouse at Callide estimated to flamboyant . in his makeup, ~ould have cost approximately £9,210,000 and to be attacked this problem with a little more completed by 1966. I believe that power­ heart. I do not think he made a plea for house is essential to Central Queensland the boys and girls leaving school this year. because cheap power is vital for the indus­ The figures I have from the Labour and trial development of the region. The impor­ National Service Plaf!ning and Research tant consideration is whether they will be Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 869

able to supply industrial users in the area anything of that sort. It is characteristic with cheap power. Recently the tariff rate of the hon. member for Rockhampton of the Capricornia Regional Electricity South, who sometimes reminds me of Board was increased by 10 per cent. Murphy's dog-he can give it but he can­ not take it. He advocated in Rockhampton Last year there was a deputation to the recently that to solve the unemployment Minister for Development, Mines, Main problem the rates should be increased by Roads and Electricity about the powerhouse. a halfpenny in the £1. It is beyond me. The hon. member for Port Curtis and the With his boss, Mr. Hinchliff, he openly hon. member for Mackenzie were present advocated that increase in the rates, and but the hon. member for Rockhampton South he said that the only people who would was not. No doubt he did not think at that not be affected by it would be those whose stage it was important to be there. Also earnings were under £500. He said it at present was Mr. Malcolm Newman. I a meeting on unemployed that I believe he is managing director of Mt. attended. Since then, to be more fashion­ Morgan Ltd. He told the Minister and the able and keep up with the times, the name rest of us assembled that a cheap rate of has been changed to the Employment Com­ electricity was the first essential to indus­ mittee. No matter what it is called, it try in Central Queensland. If my memory will never achieve anything. The hon. serves me right, he said it was necessary member for Rockhampton South made that to have power there at the rate of .6d. per big brave statement, and the Editor of kilowatt-hour. He said that if we are unable "The Morning Bulletin" said in his Satur­ to get power at that rate we will not, because day survey, "It is a little bit 'iffey' "-in of our geographical position in relation to other words, it is on the nose. The hon. markets in Brisbane and the southern States, member says, "We will support this scheme be able to compete with southern operators. and solve our unemployment problem in He said, too, that Mt. Morgan Ltd. was Rockhampton, whether it is seasonal or interested in various fields of development permanent." I say that it is permanent. up there, including plastics, fertiliser, indus­ He should have got down to the crux of trial gases and carbide. I think everyone is the matter and said, "This is a State or aware that carbide is tied up very closely a Federal matter. We cannot solve it by with the plastics industry. He made it very increasing the rates of the people of Rock­ clear that unless industry can get power at hampton." I notice that Mr. Hinchliff the rate he suggested he does not think did not say, "Well, boys, although our we will have the industrial development in profits are not disclosed-they go to Central Queensland that everyone is talking London, as you know-we have had a about, so I sincerely hope that, when the pretty good year. Instead of the people powerhouse is built, we will be able to offer of Rockhampton putting in £25,000, the cheap power to industrialists. State Government putting in £25,000, and It is rumoured that with the increase in the Commonwealth Government £50,000, tariff of the Capricornia Regional Electricity here is a cheque for £50,000. We will Board in Rockhampton, Mt. Morgan Ltd. give you a helping hand." will most likely go back to generating their The latest idea is to get the service own electricity. I do not know whether clubs, such as the Apex Club and the that is correct but, with the 10 per cent. Lions Club, to help in solving the problem. increase, it certainly seems that it could happen. How absurd! It is becoming fashionable to turn unemployment into employment meet­ In his speech the hon. member for Rock­ ings. That is what is going on in Rockhamp­ hampton South was very quick off the mark ton. The scheme is mushrooming, and it has in supporting the increase of 50 per cent. in already spread to the North. People are liquor fees. While I do not intend to trans­ writing down expressing their views about gress by anticipating legislation, I do not how we can solve the problem of unem­ know how a man could honestly get up and ployment in Rockhampton. We cannot do support a 50 per cent. increase in liquor it by increasing the rates. If the State fees when the workers in my area-- Government and the Federal Government do not do anything about it, the rate­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ payers of Rockhampton should not be asked ber is aware that that matter is the subject to pay this additional levy. The Federal of pending legislation. He will not be in basic wage is frozen and quarterly adjust­ order in anticipating pending legislation. ments of the State basic wage have been Mr. THACKERAY: I know that, but he abolished. Wages are not high enough to started it. give people the standard of living to which they are entitled. The hon. member for The CHAIRMAN: Order! The hon. mem­ Rockhampton South is so eager to hit ber can make those remarks when the Bill the headlines that on one occasion he comes before the Assembly. asked for an autopsy on a crocodile. On this occasion he has sidetracked the issue. Mr. THACKERAY: It affects the What about unemployment in Rockhampton workers, and I would not be a party to during November and December when the 870 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply meatworks are closed? Is he worrying and an acting secretary for that amount of about that? Not one iota. Yet he claims money. None of that has been taken into he is the saviour of the city. consideration. For the maintenance of harbour works, I shall refer now to something that I including dredging, in 1960-1961 the actual believe should be exposed in the interests expenditure under this heading was of the people of Rockhampton. The £10,765. Naturally there will be some Treasurer is very astute. He can pour out reduction in maintenance costs at the honey whenever he requires it, and he Port Alma with the completion of the gets a few of the boys in, too. But when­ new concrete breast wharf, but there will be ever he says he is going to give something still heavy expenditure on the remaining old away, one has to be a bit wary of him. I timber section with its railway approach. have prepared what I believe to be a very I was staggered when I learned that whilst damaging statement on the Rockhampton in 1959-1960 it cost £3,589 to maintain the Harbour Board. The statement of receipts river wharves, maintenance on these fast and payments for the five years 1961-1962 decaying wharves is estimated to cast only to 1965-1966 prepared by the Rockhampton £500 in 1965-1966. Harbour Board for submission to the Rock­ hampton City Council is a classic example I have here a copy of the "Morning of how figures can be made to tell the Bulletin" of Monday, 25 September. It says tale its authors require it to do. It would on the front page- take too long to dissect all the figures at "Meat Loading at City Wharves this stage but I will make a few com­ The first overseas meat vessel to sail parisons of the actual expenditure in up-river, the German freighter Caroline 1960-1961 with the anticipated expenditure Horn, berthed at the City Wharves for the next five years, particularly yesterday. 1965-1966. For administration the actual "Rockhampton's Harbour-master (Cap­ disbursements in 1960-1961 were £9,110 tain D. Whitehouse) joined the Caroline when the total revenue wa:s £65,797, but the Horn at Sea Hill. He said that the 246 ft. anticipated expenditure in 1965-1966 in this vessel handled beautifully and made excel­ fantastic budget is only £8,905 with an esti­ lent time in a half-speed run up the river." mater revenue of £71,090, and it remains constant at that figure for four years. Surely He said that there would be more types of there must be some expectation of increases this vessel travelling to the various ports in the basic wage and improvements in the throughout the Commonwealth. I believe living standards of the workers over a period it is one of 18 vessels. It can negotiate the of five years. As the Town Clerk of the river and is an ideal boat for the small Rockhampton City Council said in his report packaged export meat, particularly for the to the City Council on the subject, there American market. Yet, the anticipated "has been an increase of 25 per cent. in the expenditure for 1965-1966 is only £500 for basic wage over the last five years, and I maintenance of the Rocklrampton wharf. am one who thinks that it will be even For plant working and maintenance, exclud­ greater in the next five years." ing dredging, the actual cost in 1960-1961 was £10,827. For the same work in 1965-1966 the By the same token there has been no estimated cost is only £3,510. That is a increase in harbour board dues since 1952, great difference. The general actual dis­ in other words up to the last anticipated bursements for 1960-1961 were £9,850. year in 1965-1966 there will have been no Estimated disbursements for 1965-1966 are increase for 13 years. It means that the £7,480. Whilst provisions for holidays and harbour dues are to remain stationary for sick pay-and this is an important one­ approximately 13 years, yet in the last five increased from £1,330-odd to £1,400, the years the basic wage has risen in the vicinity necessity for making any provision for long of 25 per cent. Not one penny provision service leave appears to have disappeared by has been made for that. 1965-1966. There is one particular item, "Engineer Actual loan and interest payments for 1960- Secretary." Everyone knows the special 1961 were £25,427, but for the 1964-1965 circumstances of the appointment of the year and for 1965-1966 it is anticipated there present holder of the office, Mr. Morrison. will be an amount of £62,041 required, an I have the highest regard for Mr. Morrison. increase of £36,614. He gave wonderful service to the harbour At this point I should like to sound a note board for a number of years as acting of warning. In my opinion, the whole engineer. When the former secretary died Budget has been prepared to delude the rate­ he was appointed to the dual position of payers of Rockhampton. Fancy telling the engineer-secretary for which he received the people of Rockhampton that, with an addi­ princely salary of £1,865 in 1960-1961. and tional revenue of £2,793 in 1964-1965 and it is expected that he will receive £2,000 £5,293 in 1965-1966 as compared with actual in 1965-1966. Mr. Morrison must be revenue for 1960-1961, with interest pay­ approaching his retiring age. I venture to ments increasing from £25,427 to £62,041, say that in 1965-1966 the board will not they are only going to be asked to sub­ get the services of a junior engineer for sidise the Rockhampton Harbour Board to the £2,000 let alone the services of an engineer tune of £18,386 in 1964-1965 and £14,964 in Supply [19 OCTOBER) Supply 871

1965-1966. I do not consider that those when we remember that the basic wage in figures will be borne out by the facts, and the last five years has increased by 25 per the Treasurer should take note of them. cent. I have here the 1959-1960 report. In 1965-1966 harbour dues, despite the The figures for exports over the two wharves amount that will be received on oil, are indicate that C.Q.M.E. is the biggest exporter. expected to be £50,000-odd, yet in 1956-10 The ratepayers of Rockhampton are the years earlier-the actual receipts were suckers for the C.Q.M.E. Company. We are £54,377. I am sure that will concern the being milked by the C.Q.M.E. Company, so people of Rockhampton and should be of that there will be low harbour dues. The some concern to the Treasurer wlrose depart­ hon. member for Rockhampton South is the ment controls harbours. junior partner in this concern and he and the C.Q.M.E. Company must take equal blame In the same report the Town Clerk quotes for the present state of affairs. The Treasurer figures showing the total tonnage handled is a very smart person. In volume 226 of inward and outward over the river and Port "Hansard" at page 2163 he said, "The Rock­ Alma wharves in 1960-1961 at 46 803 tons of hampton Harbour Board has been in a mess which 30,279 tons or 65 per cent. went over for 40 years." He went on to say he was the river wharves and 16,524 tons or 35 not going to advance any money for develop­ per cent. over the Port Alma wharf. ment of the wharves in the city of Rock­ As the policy of the present Board is to hampton. He said, in effect, "I have had close down the river wharves and concentrate my fingers burnt. Labour Governments have the whole <;>f the shipping through Port Alma, written off so much money that you will I should hke to ask the framers and sup­ have to see if you can get the assistance porters of this budget to explain how they of any other sucker." Then in comes the hope to sustain their estimated receipts from boy wonder and his boss and we, the rate­ payers of Rockhampton, are called upon to harb~ur dues in 1965-1966 at £50,000 when the Imports harbour dues on general cargo pay the bill. Instead of having additional over the river wharves is 20s. per ton com­ kerbing and channelling and other amenities pared with only 13s. 4d. over the Port Alma to which we are entitled, we have to be the wharf. Do they propose to increase the Port suckers for the C.Q.M.E. Company which Alma charge to 20s. per ton? If so, I ask is milking the city right and left. tlre merchants of Rockhampton who now, per The 1959-1960 report of the Rockhamp­ me?ium of the river and its wharves, have ton Harbour Board shows in regard to the their cargoes delivered virtually into their trade of the port that the river wharves in backyards, how they will feel about paying 1958-1959 handled 34.1 per cent. of imports the extra road haulage or rail freight from and this figure increased in 1959-1960 to Port Alma and also any possible increase in 39.87 per cent. Exports over the river wharves shipping freights to Port Alma. in 1958-1959 amounted to 18.7 per cent., the In my opinion, once the river wharves are figure increasing to 21.88 per cent. in 1959- closed the battle between shipping and road 1960. In the same years Port Alma imports transport will be lost. Increasing tonnages represented 3.44 per cent., and the figure of goods will come forward by road, which was reduced in 1959-1960 to 2.67 per cent. means less work and wages for our waterside Looking at the overall picture we find that workers and all other persons connected the river wharves of Rockhampton handled wit11 the industry, and which must have a a considerably bigger amount of trade in retarding influence on the commercial life of those two years. I turn now to the 1955- Rockhampton. I am concerned and worried 1956 budget of the Rockhampton Harbour about the budget prepared by the Rockhamp­ Board and compare the tonnage in that year ton Harbour Board and approved by the with the tonnage in 1959-1960. The figures ~ockhampton City Council. In my opinion are for the city wharves and Port Alma. In It does not show to the full extent the liability 1955-1956 imports amounted to 36,645 of the people of Rockhampton for the devel­ tons. The figure dropped by 9,000 tons in opment of Port Alma. 1959-1960, imports in that year being only 27,106 tons. Exports over the I thank you, Mr. Taylor, for being city and Port Alma wharves in 1955- gracious enough to let me quote that 1956 amounted to 65,179 tons, whereas statement. in 1959-1960 they dropped to 36,630 tons. The scheme has been arrived at by t11e In other words, over 28,500 tons in four Mayor of Rockhampton who is also-- years. I am not opposed to the development Mr. Duggan: The architect? of Port Alma but I am opposed to this scheme whereby the ratepayers of Rock­ ~· THACKERAY: No, he is not the hampton are the suckers for these big architect. The architect is Mr. Mark Hinchliff operators, combines, or monopolies, such as of Lakes Creek. The significant point is the C.Q.M.E. Why should the ratepayers that Mr. Mark Hinchliff manager of of Rockhampton have to pay for this? The C.Q.M.E., is chairman of the Rockhampton Treasurer would not be in it. He said, "No, Harbour Board, and the hon. member for I will not give you money. You get what­ Rockhampton South is a member of that ever terms you can get from the city council board. and we will be in that." That is exactly what It is fantastic to suggest that there will be happened. Unless the Treasurer examines no increase in harbour dues, particularly very closely the statement I made about 872 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

h~rbour dues the ratepayers of Rockhampton Those figures include all export killings Will have to pay an astronomical amount as well as killings for Rockhampton's to subsidise Mark Hinchliff's monopolistic domestic consumption undertaken by Lakes concern, and we will be denied the essential Creek. It is not possible to get the figures services we so badly require. dissected into export and local killings. I should now like to comment on whether Following are the slaughterings by the the manager of the C.Q.M.E. utilises the local slaughter yards for the financial years port facilities at Rockhampton to the maxi­ indicated and they include cattle and mum extent or whether he uses road trans­ calves:- port. How many tons of goods does he send 1958-1959 19,579 head away every year by road transport? I have 1959-1960 15,538 head been past the meatworks on several occasions 1960-1961 12,572 head and I have seen loaded 15-ton trailers for dispatch to the south. How sincere is he Mr. Evans: What happened to those as chairman of the Rockhampton Harbour cattle? Did they go through Rockhampton? Board when he uses road transport for the Mr. THACKERAY: Yes. The only meatworks? How sincere is he about the figures I have available of railings past welfare of the people of Rockhampton? In all Rockhampton are for 1960 and they are these things, he is supported by his yes-man, as follows:- the hon. member for Rockhampton South. The hon. member for Rockhampton South commented on the abattoir, and I say, here 1--F~-~ Cannon Stores and now, that I have very grave doubts Gladstone Hill and I whether Rockhampton will ever get an Southern abattoir. I believe that we have been sold Works I down the river. The amount of money Ex Central Division January-December, that has been allocated by the Treasurer to 1960 .. .. 17,246 14,104 the Callide-Dawson Valley Co-operative Ex Northern Division A~sociation Abattoirs-and that is just the January-December, 1960 .. .. I 5,543 I 14,796 thm edge of the wedge to pacify the hon. ~~:::: members for Callide and Mackenzie-is sufficient to stop Rockhampton from getting Those figures are accurate and I challenge an abattoir. I know the proposed abattoir anyone to show otherwise. is in the Callide electorate but this money We hear all this talk about abattoirs. has been advanced to meet the strong politi­ There is one at Oakey employing about cal pressure that has been applied in those 130 men and killing 1,600 head. areas. As the hon. member for Rockhampton South said, there is no money for the Rock­ I strongly suggest to the members of hampton abattoir this year. If there is a the A.M.I.E.U. that, even if the franchise shortage of cattle in Central Queensland why is given to the C.Q.M.E. company, the did no~ the_ hon. member for Rockha~pton possibility of permanent employment in South m his speech oppose this abattoir in Rockhampton is very remote except for the Dawson Valley? He was told not to do the top preference men at Lakes Creek. it. He knows in his heart it will not affect No-one can deny that. They talk about the C~ntral Queensland Meat Export Com­ 200 to 400 men but those include general pany m Rockhampton. He knows that with maintenance employees, clerks and I sup­ the geographic position of Biloela, and the pose all the men they have on all the saleyards at Rockhampton it would be stations about the place. Added together uneconomic for outside operators to buy it seems to make a rosy picture but, if a cattle a~ the saleyards in Rockhampton and franchise is given only to a local abattoir then bnng them through by train or road in Rockhampton, it will employ only a transport to Biloela for treatment there and three-butcher gang. I say quite openly then ship the meat by road or rail t~ the that in the near future the C.Q.M.E. com­ southern portion of the State. He knows pany, like other big operators in Australia, what will happen about the cattle abattoir will introduce more modern killing facili­ in Rockhampton and there is no room for ties. The killing facilities at Lakes Creek argu~ent about that. If the C.Q.M.E. has now do not compare with other meatworks nothmg to worry about, why is there all the such as Cannon Hill and the one Swifts squealing about it? Why is it such an evil intend to put in this year. There are two thing to have an abattoir in Central Queens­ types of machinery that can be introduced land, the home of the cattle industry? I into these meatworks, namely, the vo-mation now present the slaughtering figures for system and the can-pack system. Installed Lakes Creek from 1958 to August, 1961- at Lakes Creek they will have a consider­ able influence on the number of men required to work during the killing season. Year Cattle Calves Total I am led to believe that the number of 1958 ...... 146,302 6,481 152,783 men will be greatly reduced-anything up 1959 ...... 121,853 I 4,385 126,238 to 25 per cent. I do not know the C.Q.M.E . 1960 .. 108,275 4,182 112,457 1961 (t~ Aug~~t) .. 86,360 3,325 89,685 company's business because Mr. Hinchliff I and I are not on very good terms, but he Supply (19 OCTOBER] Supply 873

is a very astute business man and no doubt Mr. THACKERAY: I will withdraw it. he believes in automation and mechanisation. On a point of order, I now ask the hon. Wherever he can dispense with the services member for Rockhampton South to withdraw of men he will do so. Through this system the statement that he made. He called me men can be dispensed with and a three­ a liar out of the corner of his mouth. It butcher gang is all that will be required is poetic justice. to kill for the local consumption of Rock­ hampton, which is 300 head a week. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. member for Rockhampton South, did he call It is no good anybody's saying that the the hon. member for Rockhampton North abattoir is not required in Rockhampton. a liar? The figures I have given prove that it is required and I only wish that some Country Mr. Pilbeam: I did not call him a liar. Party member outside the hon. member for I said to the .gentleman here, "That could Mackenzie would have come into the debate be a lie." - and openly stated the case for it. The CHAIRMAN: Order! The words "lie" Mr. Ewan: What percentage of these cattle and "liar" are unparliamentary expressions. that are bypassing Rockhampton would be I ask the hon. member to withdraw his killed there if a district abattoir were remark. established? Mr. Pilbeam: I withdraw it. Mr. THACKERAY: I think the southern Mr. THACKERAY: Having made those operators would be prepared to kill cattle remarks, I shall resume my seat, because there. They have already told the officials the only other matter that I want to deal of the Abattoir Board in Rockhampton that with is very controversial and I am sure they are prepared to kill them there. you would rule me out of order, Mr. Taylor. I caught the hon. member for Rock­ Mr. CAMPBELL (Aspley) (7.53 p.m.): I hampton South calling me a liar out of the rise to oppose the amendment moved by the corner of his mouth. I think he is a dingo. Leader of the Opposition, if only for the Mr. PILBEAM: I rise to a point of reason that hon. members opposite, apart order. I object to that remark. from indulging in familiar political catch­ cries, have advanced no valid reasons in The CHAIRMAN: Order! Will the hon. support of their case. Furthermore, in member for Rockhampton South state what expressing their views they have often been he objects to? at variance with each other. For example, we heard the hon. member for Cairns Mr. PILBEAM: He called me a dingo. berating the Federal Government for I have proved that I am not a dingo. neglecting the North. On the other hand, the hon. member for Brisbane attempted to The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. heap ridicule on the Federal Government member for Rockhampton North to address for its plans to spend £5,000,000 on beef his remarks to the Chair. I did not hear roads. the remark he made. If he used that term in reference to the hon. member for Rock­ The Opposition has voiced its criticism of hampton South, I ask him to withdraw it. the Treasurer for his references in the Financial Statement to the drought and the Mr. THACKERAY: In deference to your current economic conditions and claimed that ruling, I do so. I hate any man who refuses he has made excuses because of these factors. to open his mouth to say what he wants Let me say that the Treasurer has nothing to say. to apologise for in his Budget. We are indeed fortunate in having a person of his The CHAIRMAN: Order! I ask the hon. calibre in charge of such an important member to withdraw the remark. portfolio. Mr. THACKERAY: I refuse to withdraw Mr. Newton: Tell us how the drought it because the hon. member for Rockhampton has affected the poultry-farmers. South called me a liar. I will not withdraw it. Mr. CAMPBELL: What does the hon. member think? The CHAIRMAN: Order! I am asking the hon. member to withdraw the remark. Mr. Newton: I am asking you. I should like to point out to him that, under Mr. CAMPBELL: The Treasurer presents Rule 123A, I have not the power to order his accounts in a far more creditable manner a member to leave the Chamber if he than his predecessors did. disregards the authority of the Chair. That must be done under Rule 124. If the hon. In referring to the drought the Treasurer member refuses to withdraw the remark, he simply reported a statement of fact, and it is disregarding the authority of the Chair ill becomes hon. members opposite to make and I must report him to the House. I such sneering references to drought con­ appeal to the hon. member to withdraw ditions that have existed in many areas of the remark without comment. the State for a great length of time. In so 874 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

doing such hon. members do a great dis­ allocation of the company's profits. It is service to those stout-hearted ·Souls who quite properly a matter for determination continue to battle on in face of adversity by the company in the same way as it deter­ in the ·hope of a better share of nature's mines its dividends to shareholders, the bounty. amount to be placed to reserves, and its I was very pleased to hear the hon. member allocation for depreciation and in conse­ for Brisbane retract his exaggerated refer­ quence, should not come within the jurisdic­ ences in this regard. Naturally it is a tion of the industrial tribunal. On the other great source of disappointment to hon. mem­ hand, as hon. members know, the function of bers opposite that the Government have so the tribunal is to determine the conditions of ably handled the administration of the State, employment and wages, which, of course, for, in so doing, they have given the lie to includes overtime, margins and the like. the Labour Party's pre-election propaganda. That is precisely the basis of the recent The electors were told along with other amendment of the industrial law. matters that the Country Party-Liberal Gov­ If the claim of hon. members opposite ernment would eliminate the free hospital that the removal from the jurisdiction of system. But under this Government hospital the Industrial Court of bonus payments is facilities have been greatly expanded, with a renunciation of a vital industrial principle, the promise of many more benefits to come why is it in all these years, that so few and at the same time a record expenditure employees have availed themselves of the has been budgeted for. facilities of the Industrial Court in this It was claimed that with the elimination matter? of price control prices of commodities would It is quite obvious that the Opposition soar, yet the last consumer price index speak with their tongues in their cheeks and revealed that a state of balance has been are not sincere in this regard and, indeed, achieved in this field. The electors were are not sincere when they declare their threatened that the Government would slash violent opposition to the principle of payment wages. That this claim is fallacious is borne of bonuses to employees. The hon. member out by the fact that the Government have for Belmont who speaks for the Trades Hall, ,come to be regarded as a model employer, vehemently denounced the Government whilst their industrial legislation is designed recently for removing the bonus clause from to protect the decent employee, who desires the previous legislation. During the passage to render honest service for his wages, of the amending Bill, he defined his attitude from the ravages of industrial agitators. towards the question in no uncertain terms. I shall quote from "Hansard," volume 229 Of course, the Opposition are most envious at page 2451 where he said~ of the Government's commendable record of educational services, for no effort has been "The Minister also spoke this morning spared in this direction to cope with the about a bonus system. I am amazed staggering demands upon this service in the that any Minister, particularly the Minister past few years. The reorganisation fore­ for Labour and Industry, who is concerned shadowed in the recently issued report of about safety in industry, would even con­ the committee appointed .to inquire into sider a bonus payment in any particular secondary education in Queensland will industry. What does it mean? Let us be prove to be a landmark in the progress honest. It means the speeding up of the made in education. industry, placing young men in competition with old men; it means more accidents." Because of the foregoing achievements, and others too numerous to mention, hon. The Minister for Labour and Industry inter­ members opposite are redoubling t!heir jected~ efforts to knock the Government, but they "Do you mean to say you do not believe will know that they knock in vain. in the bonus scheme?" The present position in which the Labour The hon. member for Belmont replied- Party finds itself, both in Queensland and "! do not believe in a bonus system. elsewhere in Australia, could well be likened My reason for not believing in it is that to the nursery rhyme that deals with the anything given by way of bonus is not misfortunes of a character known as Humpty sincere." Dumpty. This situation is borne out by the recent gallup poll in which 80 per cent. Mr. Newton: I was referring to an incen­ of people interviewed rejected the Socialist tive bonus system, and you quite well philosophy. know it. A great deal of prominence has been given Mr. CAMPBELL: I leave it to hon. mem­ in the debate to the bonus payment issue bers to determine the sincerity of hon. at Mt. Isa. As usual, hon. members opposite members opposite in this matter. One very have endeavoured to cloud the issue by mis­ disturbing feature that has emerged from the representing the true position of bonus pay­ discussion on this matter is the extent to ments. Indeed, all they have achieved in which hon. members opposite will go in this direction is to demonstrate their lack casting aspersions on the principals and of knowledge of the facts of the case for management of Mt. Isa Mines Ltd. It is bonus payments. What are the facts about a fact that this company's reputation as an bonus payments? The bonus payment is an employer of labour is such that it is regarded Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 875 as being one of the best in Australia and strike means to those who are involved. has provided, on its own initiative, amenities Every striker has had the experience of and conditions far in excess of its legal living without pay and, if the strike is requirements and has done all in its power prolonged, in many instances, of having his to ensure the contentment of its employees. credit cut off by the local tradespeople. It is unworthy of hon. members to make During the progress of the strike bitter feel­ these charges knowing in their hearts that ings and personal hatreds are often stirred, they are false. and during that period of stress, and perhaps We cannot expect companies to come to for some consideratble time later, his this State and establish themselves here when environment is not very congenial. Further, they know they will be subject to such attacks he is looked upon often as a law-breaker for as we have heard from some hon. members participating in a strike, and the best that is opposite. The hon. member for South Bris­ said of him, I suppose, by the people who bane made the unworthy allegation that the are not involved in the strike is that he is_ a amending legislation was the pay-off for a mischief maker, yet many who condemn, owe monetary consideration by the company. All to those who took direct action in the past I have to say is that this unworthy innuendo a debt of gratitude for their own improve­ should rightly be treated with the contempt ments in working conditions, rates of pay it deserves. and living standards. Highly-paid employees Opposition members have made a great who have done nothing towards improving to-do about the profits the Mt. Isa com­ their own conditions have had their salaries pany is currently earning. It is quite obvious increased because employees lower in the that they hate to see a successful and profit­ wage scale have won better conditions. We able enterprise, and prefer to back a bankrupt have not to look beyond the Chamber for show like Collinsville. They are content proof of that statement. The Premier is paid to conveniently forget that this mine oper­ a higher salary than a Cabinet Minister, and ated for 16 years before it could pay a divi­ likewise the Cabinet Minister is paid more dend to its share-holders. than a back bencher. The same position applies right down the salary scale. On what Mr. Bromley: And the Labour Government have their conditions been based? They are gave it its kick-off in the first place. based on what has been gained by some employee far lower down in the economic Mr. CAMPBELL: I do not deny that. bracket. Those people who condemn should Since its inception 72 per cent. of its total take some time to think over the position earnings have been ploughed back into the more clearly because the men on strike are company to finance expansion and thus build not enjoying their workless days. They are up an asset of tremendous economic import­ not enjoying seeing their families suffer, and ance to Queensland. they are not enjoying forfeiting their pleas­ Mr. Hanlon: Don't you think the employees ures. They prefer to work and get their pay. are entitled to some of the rake-off being Those who are observing the Mt. Isa dispute ploughed back? from afar have a different conception from those who are intimately concerned, Mr. CAMPBELL: They are getting part of but they should realise that the workers who the rake-off. are out believe they have a just cause, and Mr. Hanlon: Not a fair share of it. have had to adopt this way of expressing themselves because of the Government's Mr. CAMPBELL: That would be a matter removal of bonus payment from the jurisdic­ of opinion. This company has made a tion of the court. significant contribution to the economy of The recent seasons have not been satis­ Australia, as it is currently earning approx­ factory for the grain growers of the Central imately £25,000,000 a year of export income, Highlands, particularly for the production of and in so doing has become the largest wheat. individual earner of export income for Australia. Mr. Hughes: You will agree that seasonal conditions have a great bearing on unem­ Summing up, I submit that the Opposition has put up a sham fight for the following ployment. reasons: Quite obviously they are hostile to Mr. O'DONNELL: I will deal with that the principle of bonus payments; they are well point later. aware of the company's record as a good employer and that the company has spared Last year the wheat crop was poor, and no effort in providing facilities and amenities this year, with the exception of an area for its employees to offset the climatic between Emerald and Springsure, production disabilities; and they know that the majority has been practically nil. In the more of employees are grateful to the company fortunate areas, sufficient rain has fallen to for its consideration of their welfare. produce light crops. Luckily the sorghum season earlier gave yields which classed the Mr. O'DONNELL (Barcoo) (8.8 p.m.): production as an all-time record. The People in regular employment, more or less sorghum growers had a little good luck, sheltered from economic difficulties, have thanks to the misfortune of their fellow virtually no conception of what being on country workers in other parts of the State. 876 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

The sorghum crop would not have had a The CHAIRMAN: Order! satisfactory market if there had not been a drought. The unfortunate graziers had to turn Mr. O'DONNELL: Every aspect of market­ to the loc~l supply of sorghum which, ing must be revised, for these prospective because of Its wonderful harvest, would not customers range from the primitive to the have obtained a satisfactory market overseas. cultured. Their religions, their ideologies and 'their customs will have to be understood . . yve are undergoing a change in the way of Hit-and-miss methods by our exporters must l!vmg on the Central highlands that is go by the board. The State and Federal particularly interesting. We find that the Governments have a moral obligation to help pattern of change from grazing to agriculture and finance research for markets. set in train by the Queensland British Food Corporation, and later followed by the Perhaps hon. members have not noticed the subdivision of the district into living areas small article that appeared in this morn­ for closer settlement, though slow in its initial ing's "The Courier-Mail." It is a criticism stages, has now reached a surpnsmg of. what Australia, generally speaking, is momentum. Practically every property con­ domg about markets. With your permission, veniently situated to rail transport, has land Mr. Taylor, I will read it. It is headed- under the plough and the influx of share "No drive in our seJiing" farmers has been astonishing. A fortnight and it has this to say- ago, in the middle of 6,000 acres of wheat, I stood amazed. In whatever direction I "Australian firms really had not been looked, wheat extended to the horizon. It selling their goods overseas, but just 'per­ was a light crop certainly, but what satisfac­ mitting people to buy', a Federal Govern­ ment trade expert said last night. tion m?st it ~ave been to the owner who, by producmg this crop, has shown the potential "The expert is Mr. Nevil Stuart, Director ?f th~ district. This property has an interest­ Export Policy, Department of Trade i~ Il!g history. The man who owns it is progres­ Canberra. SIVe. He moved with the change from "Mr. Stuart, a former Australian Govern­ pastoral to agricultural activities, and moved ment trade commissioner in Japan, was well. The extent of the property is 11 500 addressing the Brisbane division of the acres, of which 6,000 acres are now u~der Australian Institute of Management. cultivation. Five share-farmers work it. The owner expects to put another 2,500 acres " 'Singapore imports £1,250,000 worth of under the plough and employ at least another canned meat a year,' Mr. Stuart said. 'But share-farmer. Australia supplies only £60,000 worth. Australia is at the bottom of the list That gives the Committee an idea of the behind the United Kingdom, United States, potential of the Central Highlands. What can Denmark, the Netherlands, and other be done ~here ea~ be done on almost any countries. pr.op~rty . m. the Immediate vicinity of the "'The United States sends £1 million Gmd1e d1stnct, and of course it will extend worth of frozen poultry a year to Hong­ farther with the change of ideas that has kong, but we don't sell one chook there.' " come about in the area, which, until 1950 was a purely pastoral district. ' Despite decreased subsidies by this Govern­ ment the shire councils of the Central High­ By the way, there are hundreds of lands have done their utmost to accommo­ thousands of these areas occupied by brigalow date the grain-grower. They have endeav­ and softwood scrubs, and besides that there oured wherever possible to build feeder roads are the vast areas of open downs. When to railways from the production areas. Thus they a~e converted to agricultural pursuits more grain-growers are encouraged to come !he gram produced and the increas~d carry­ into the district. And, of course, we find mg capacity of the country will contribute their numbers increasing not so much by greatly to the State's economy. people who are purchasing properties but Our problem will not be to get production through the advent of share-farmers. The but t? find markets to absorb the products. result is that more grain is produced. In VIew of England's proposed entry into the European Common Market our indus­ However, all shire councils are feeling tries must move now, and quickly to dis­ the pinch financially, for they are not able to cope adequately with the rapid develop­ cover potential markets in the Pacific or else ment that has come about. I consider that we shall not be sharing in the future wealth. the State Government should make strong Much research work must be done to study representations to the Commonwealth the requirements of these people for we Government so that more funds can be allo­ shall have to adapt our manufacturing cated to councils that have to endeavour techniques to suit their needs. to keep up with such unprecedented develop­ Mr. Hughes: Would you trade with Red ment as is seen in the Central Highlands. China? These areas should have preferential treat­ ment because it has been said-I am quot­ Mr. O'DONNELL: If they pay for the ing the words of a local resident-that in products, yes. Would the hon. member turn the Central Highlands development has a Communist out of his shop if he wanted been so rapid that it is beyond the means to buy something from him? or the capacity of the ratepayer to afford it. Supply [19 OCTOBER) Supply 877

That is a rather strong indictment of the industries are not being established in the Government when funds should be flowing coastal towns, and reduced employment in into such an area. The great development the shipyards at Maryborough has added in the area should be appreciated, and a dis­ to the problem. I believe that fewer than trict that is going ahead so fast should be 100 men are working there now. Queensland marked down as worthy of the greatest has the greatest seasonal unemployment rate support from State and Federal Govern­ of all the States as well as the greatest ments. short-time working rate. Who is to blame, the State or the Federal Government? We There is very little work offering in the remember the £200,000,000 allotted to the Barcoo electorate at present. Local resi­ Snowy River project and the £2,000,000 dents, as well as persons from other dis­ tricts and other States, are searching for allotted to the Canberra lake. There is any class of job. Unfortunately, no jobs also the likelihood that the Menzies Govern­ are available from the local authorities and ment will contribute £3,500,000 to the Mur­ the Main Roads Department, because, ray River dam. We cannot blame Mr. through lack of finanr.:e, they are marking Menzies alone; his Government is composed time and only keeping the old hands of both Country and Liberal Party members, employed. who make the decision. It looks very dim for Queensland's prospects when we hear Mr. Duggan: And the withdrawal by the of the decision that they will contribute Government of the subsidies previously paid £3,500,000 to the Murray River dam at to local authorities. Chowilla near the South Australian border. Mr. O'DONNELL: I thank the Leader That amount of money represents 25 per of the Opposition for that comment. cent. of the cost of the dam, which it Although some local shearers in the Barcoo is expected will be the largest in Australia. have gone to other districts for work, there We do not begrudge the people in the ~as been some activity in the shearing other States these things, but owing to the mdustry. Isolated sheds will be the pattern State Government's Jack of initiative not for a month or so. Dry weather throughout one thought is given to Queensland. Our this area has some bearing on the unemploy­ only salvation is in getting people back ment position, but the credit restrictions into employment. To do so we must pro­ caused property owners to reduce their duce and find markets. improvements and repair work for the time being. Coastal employment is of particular inter­ est to the electors of Barcoo and other The Premier is fully aware of the serious­ western electorates, for those unfortunate ness of the unemployment situation. He people thrown out of work on the coast and his colleaguse have repeatedly blamed move west with the forlorn hope of obtain­ the drought for the present position. How­ ing some form of employment. They ever, he stated in "The Courier-Mail" of become competitors with the local unem­ 17 October that recent rains could make ployed for whatever jobs are offering. We more jobs available in some areas of the want prosperity along the coast; we do State, but would not materially improve not want to knock the coast. We want the overall picture. He also said that a conditions along the coast to be good because g~o~ wet season would improve the position w1thm the next 12 months-a long time good conditions on the coast reflect a pros­ to. exist on social service payments, as I perous hinterland. However, the position thmk hon. members will agree. at the moment is a very dismal one with the unemployed from the coast moving The State was hoping for special Com­ inland. monwealth assistance to find jobs, because Queensland could not provide additional J must comment on decentralisation-an funds for unemployment. However, current unfulfilled promise of the Nicklin-Morris history is against the possibility of this. Government. We must stop the concen­ We remember the long fight to get finance tration of people in a few areas scattered for the reconstruction of the Mt. Isa railway along the eastern coastline, and aid develop­ compared with the action of the Menzies ment. Our empty spaces must be filled. Government in going out of their way to I should like to quote Mr. Arthur Calwell. provide finance for railway standardisation J realise that will not be very pleasant to in Western Australia, tied up, of course, hon. members opposite, but the following with the establishment of a steel industry is a sentence of wisdom:- at Kwinana. Secondary industry has "The promotion of our sprawling cities declined, and the Federal Government have indicates a national degeneration which failed to stimulate it. Modernisation pro­ could lead to the point of national cesses on the waterfront have thrown at extinction." least 1,000 watersiders out of work from Bundaberg to Cairns, and no other work Attractive conditions and amenities must has been found for them. Increasing unem­ become an essential part of life in the West ploymen~ will loom as a greater problem and the North. Industries must be estab­ m commg years. Modern mechanisation lished to hold the people. The so-called has cut into the amount of seasonal work unfavourable parts of the State attract the available in the meat industry and this will various types of public servants as a means be the fate of the sugar industry too. Other to an end, namely promotion. Many of 87!1 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

our school-leavers we have to export to squarely on the shoulders of the State Govern­ obtain positions. The Government should ment but surely they could have pointed out help. Give Central Queensland a university, to the Federal Government, who have never a teachers' college, an agricultural high been interested in the progress of Queensland school, and a research station in the West. and apparently do not wish to see us progress. Expand secondary education wherever pos­ that in Queensland we are trying to expand sible; explore every avenue for closer our export market yet the State is being iettlement; keep freight charges on essential flooded with products similar to those that goods at the lowest practicable level, and are the mainstay of our export balances. it will be found that the people will be contented with their lot. While speaking on the economy I quote from the 1961 annual report of the Queens­ Mr. BROMLEY (Norman) (8.30 p.m.): I land Chamber of Manufactures. I do not preface my remarks by asking the Treasurer think anyone will argue that that body is a question through you, Mr. Taylor, because not a supporter of the Tory coalition govern­ on his reply will depend my contribution ment. The article is headed "Economy" and to the debate and perhaps the fate of the reads- amendment. " On November 15th, 1960, the Common­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! I point out to wealth Government announced drastic the hon. member that whilst he may ask his action intended to curb excessive spending. question, the Treasurer is not obliged to "It has long been obvious that the domin­ reply. In fact, he cannot reply until he ant flaws in our post-war economy­ closes the debate. constantly rising costs and a fluctuating overseas balance, both resulting from our Mr. BROMLEY: I did not think inability to reconcile growth with stability that he would reply. When he was -could not be easily rectified. presenting his Financial Statement his initial remarks led me to think that "By the end of 1960 it was apparent that he was reading from last year's Financial the Government had made the mistake of Statement in which he said that the economy trying to cure two problems by adopting of the State and the Government's finances a single remedy-deflation." were affected by a combination of adverse "Thereby the Government factors. The Treasurer used the same phrase (a) Dampened down domestic activity in his opening remarks this year. to the point of causing widespread Mr. Ewan: There has been a drought for unemployment; and five years. (b) Failed to stop unnecessary imports because of its stubborn refusal to Mr. BROMLEY: He truthfully mentioned reimpose selective import licensing. the unfortunate fact that Queensland had had another dry year. "Your Council recommended that as a first step to rectify the overseas position Mr. Ewan: Five dry years. the Government should take immediate action and reimpose selective import licen­ l\Ir. BROMLEY: Had had another dry sing. The credit squeee could then have year. He continued- been relaxed sufficiently to correct the "While the national counter inflationary unemployment. measures caused a decline in activity in "Insofar as imports are concerned, the industry generally which has continued into main fear of Australian manufacturers was the current year." that, unless licensing was restored, the The Treasurer used the words, "combination Government could not strengthen the tariff of adverse factors." He has a responsible barriers sufficiently to protect the local job, to my way of thinking, the most import­ economy-during the period of import ant in the Government. He is responsible to licensing the inadequacy of our tariff had the people of Queensland and to the Parlia­ not been recognised. ment and he should mention the other adverse "Your Council believes that the lesson factors that are ruining the economy of the of the past few months is that governments State. There are many and they should be and their advisers must at all times keep stressed amongst the most important being: in close touch with the market place. four years of mismanagement by an inefficient The psychological impact of government coalition party, torn by internal strife; the measures on businessmen's expectations and lesser part of the coalition striving to become on the public may be far more important the so-called strength; the desire by each to than the actual measures themselves. And, enact legislation for their own sectional in periods of difficulty and uncertainty, as interest, neither party having a snowball's current events are demonstrating, the reten­ chance in Hades of- being strong enough to tion of public and business confidence is rule in their own right, and each having as critically important. its theme song, "I'll Walk Alone." "The State Government also has a serious The lifting of import restrictions is another responsibility for the condition of the adverse factor affecting the economy. I economy in that it must work in close know that the blame for this does not lie co-operation with the Commonwealth and Supply (19 OCTOBER] Supply 879

must keep the Commonwealth Govern­ Canberra. The Canberra Federal coalition ment fully informed of all its plans for Government are living on borrowed time development. These plans must be suffi­ and on that date the people, knowing that ciently developed to permit the proper we must have a stable economy, will return appraisal of their value by those who a Labour Government. The electors can control the purse strings." hardly wait for the day to come when That article bears out my earlier contention Labour will rehabilitate the country. They that the important portfolio of the Treasurer know that the A.L.P. comes to the forefront is not being administered wisely enough to in times of crises. We have only to look bring about a stable economy in Queensland. through history to find that in the last war The failure of the Government to provide the coalition Government could not carry on sufficient money to expand water conser­ in 1940. What did they do? They turned vation, and so combat the effects of drought to the Curtin Government, the country went to which the Treasurer referred, is conducive to the people, and the people supported the to an unsound state of non-productivity of A.L.P. as they will do in December next. primary products, particularly export Let the Government members make no products. It is well known that the run-off mistake about that. I tell Government from the great coastal rivers of Queensland members through you, Mr. Taylor, that they exceeds the flow of water from the Southern should make no forecast of what will happen Alps. Something should be done to trap on 9 December. They are only trying to this waste water. We of the Australian bolster their confidence. The people of Labour Party have been urging the Govern­ Queensland and Australia have had enough ment to increase water conservation, and so of the Federal Government and know that combat droughts of which country members the Australian Labour Party is the only speak so glibly. The Treasurer's apology party that will govern Australia economically. for the Budget is based on drought conditions. For the time being, I will ignore the inter­ The Premier and other responsible jectors on my left and will silence them by Ministers issue statements to the country saying that the people will return an A.L.P. Press about the projects the Government Federal Government that will provide have in mind for developing Queensland security and full employment. That will country areas, and projects that will encour­ be our first objective. One of the first age population. I predict that we are things we will have to do is to provide unlikely to have greater population in security and stability. Queensland while the present Government have control of the Treasury benches. People Hon. members opposite are asking for are leaving the State continually because of objective ideas. I will give them four objec­ the maladministration of a government that tive ideas to help the economy of the State. are bereft of stimulating ideas. Stimulating The Tory Government have done worse than ideas have been put forward from this side take value out of the pound; they have of the Chamber. If adopted they would taken the pound out of circulation. We mean progress for Queensland. have only to look around us to see what has happened. Government members must Earlier I sought to ask the Treasurer a not fool themselves into thinking that the question. Perhaps he will answer it in his pound is still in circulation. It may be in reply. I ask him to indicate also in his the pockets of hon. members on the Govern­ reply whether he believes in full employment ment benches with big grazing properties, and a full, progressive, stable economy. but what about the poor unemployed in I will give the reason why the Federal Queensland and Australia? They have no anti-Queensland government will not allocate pounds in circulation. Government members money to the State with the greatest potential, should not delude themselves. The Federal to use their favourite phrase. They do not Government h_ave achieved their objective of want Queensland to become industrialised, as creating a pool of unemployment, but the they know the_y would lose the great majority Labour Party will create full employment. of the seats they now hold in Queensland. The Minister for "Imagination," Mr. I do not think anybody could deny that. Morris, kidde~ the people into believing that The Government know, we know and the when the coalition Government took charge Menzies Government know that if Queens­ it would not be a case of finding jobs for land was industrialised, as we want it to the workers, but finding workers for the jobs. be, there would be so many industrial That slogan bears repeating because it was workers in Queensland that the Menzies one of the central policies of the Government government would be annihilated in this parties during the last election-it would be State. a case of finding people for the jobs, not Government Members interjected. jobs for the people. It is the reverse now. We in the Opposition are trying to find jobs Mr. BROMLEY: That is what hon. for the people, but the Government are doing members on the Government benches will nothing about it. The Minister is still trying say on 9 December, 1961, when they find to find workers for the jobs, but he is doing that the electors of Queensland have it by driving people out of Queensland to awakened to this Government and the the southern States. Eventually, when they coalition anti-workers' Government in get sick of the maladministration of the 880 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply coalition Government they will all go down Mr. BROMLEY: Thank you very much, south and we will not have sufficient people Mr. Gaven. I got carried away because the in Queensland to fill all the jobs. hon. member for Roma has been continually interjecting just to get his name in The best job for the Minister for "Hansard". We do not hear him often and "Imagination" would be in the weather bureau when he speaks he does not say anything because, as has been pointed out, the Gov­ important, so he i·s trying to make his speech ernment have been basing their stop•and-go by interjection. If he likes to go with me policy on the weather. This matter is into the Parliamentary Library I will show relevant to the debate. When one considers him some headlines in the papers about 600 the type of legislation that has been intro­ dismissed here, 1,000 somewhere else, and duced in the last four years and the lifting of so on. Only recently we read of 9,000 price control of recent months even with unemployed in the motor-car industry. The unemployment figures so high-and how they building industry has been affected not only have soared-one wonders whether the by dismissals in private enterprise but also Government wish to continue in office. by dismissals in the Department of Public It is strange when we see members of the Works. These things are common, unfor­ coalition fighting and arguing amongst them­ tunately. Members of the Australian Labour selves over such matters as the Transport Party are very concerned about the position. Act but never castigating the responsible We want to see fuii employment and to see members of the Government, both Federal the pound go into circulation, not only for and State, who were the cause of the tremen. the benefit of the workers but also for the dous figure of 125,000 registered unemployed. benefit of the business people and the people That is the figure in recent weeks. Probably it of Australia generaiiy. is higher in fact but I am quoting the regis­ Mr. Hughes interjected. tered unemployed. It certainly smacks of selfishness personified. If this Government Mr. BROMLEY: Ail the hon. member for had been seriously concerned about unem­ Kurilpa worries about is dirty pornographic ployment the subsidies to local authorities literature and fruit barrows. would never have been reduced. The Treasurer has reduced them and saved the Mr. Hughes: I only pick it up after you Government money. In replying to a have finished with it. question I asked about August last he Mr. BROMLEY: I shall have something to said the State Government will save say about the hon. member later. He first £1,000,000. They have been reducing sub­ produced it in the House and then passed it sidies continually since 1957 until now they around. I was away for a week at a con­ are non-existent, but they are doing nothing ference and I had occasion to interview many about creating employment with the business people in the South. £1,000,000 that they saved. If they had kept up those subsidies to local authorities Mr. Smith: Who did the talking? You, there would be more employment today. or them? We read in the newspapers, not only the Mr. BROMLEY: We all spoke sensibly, Brisbane papers but also in the country Press, which is more than the hon. member ever of workers being displaced. The brickworks does. I warn this Government and the at Pomona have closed down. Nobody can Federal Government that all the big business­ deny that sawmills throughout the State men in the South are sympathetic to the have closed. We all know those figures from Australian Labour Party in Queensland and the Commonwealth Statistician. I will not Australia today, so much so that they are quote them now because I want to get on going against their usual grain and support­ to other important aspects of the debate. ing it because they know it is the crisis However, I remind the Committee that they party and the people have to turn to it to are closing down and causing more widespread rehabilitate the country. unemployment. They are all suffering from Honourable Members interjected. the effects of the maladministration of this inefficient Government, who, although they The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. try to legislate for sectional interests and Gaven): Order! I ask hon. members on both private enterprise, are actually ruining sides of the Chamber to aiiow the hon. mem­ private enterprise and creating more unem­ ber to make his speech. ployment. Scores of firms are being forced to close down and discontinue production. Mr. BROMLEY: As I have often said before, I do not mind hon. members on the Mr. Ewan: Where are those firms? Tell us. Government benches interjecting, because very often their interjections are so inane that Mr. BROMLEY: You read the papers. I they can be ignored altogether. think you can read. If you don't want to read, get out among your electors. Get out I shall teii hon. members what one big among the people of Queensland. businessman who controls a large number of employees told me, although I do not intend The TEMPORARY CHAffiMAN (Mr. to mention the name of the firm. He said, Gaven): Order! I ask the hon. member to as others have said-probably many hon. address his remarks to the Chair. members have heard this-"If the workers Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 881 haven't got a quid, how do you expect us interested in learning anything. All they to get a quid?" They have known it all say is, "Tell us something, tell us something." along, but they are now saying it out in the You tell them something constructive and open-"If the worker has not got a quid, sensible but they continue to ignore it. The how will it get into circulation? How will editorial continues- we get a quid, and how will Australia con­ 'The latest examples are the cloak of tinue to progress?" I ask hon. members secrecy it has chosen to throw over the opposite to wake up to that. Westbrook Home inquiry and the Mr. Ewan: Where was this? At No. 67 Premier's utimatum to his own party over Kings Cross? a resolution seeking an investigation into the State's hospital administration which Mr. BROMLEY: It was down in Sydney, is kept a closely guarded secret from the and the hon. member has never heard of public." some of the firms. As a matter of fact, they Let me deviate slightly here. The editorial would have nothing to do with him. speaks of hospital administration but this I think these matters should be mentioned so-called democratic Government are not in the Chamber and brought to the notice going to debate the Estimates for the Depart­ of the Treasurer. After all, he has an ment of Health and Home Affairs this year. important job to do and we are trying to They have too much to hide. They do not assist him and the Government. I point out want a discussion on the Westbrook inquiry to him that there are other adverse factors or on matters relating to aboriginals. That besides the drought and the credit squeeze is why the State's hospital administration affecting Queensland's economy today, and is being kept a closely guarded secret. The the present coalition Government are doing editorial goes on- nothing to create prosperity and full employ­ 'This is not the sort of atmosphere in ment. which the interests of Queensland's full development can best be served." I do not know whether this editorial in wholeheartedly agree. the "Telegraph" dated 25 May, 1961, has been quoted before, but I think it is· "All these matters are of prime import­ worth recording in "Hansard." The few ance to substantial sections of the com­ intelligent members on my left would munity. It is only reasonable in a be well advised to listen to it. It will give democratic system of government, that the some indication of what the Press think of people should be given not only every the coalition. It is headed "Public issues need opportunity but every encouragement to airing" and goes on to say- express their views on questions that affect "It is time the State Government, now their lives and well-being. well into its second term of office after 'This is not possible if every Cabinet long years in the political wilderness, took Minister is going to regard it almost as stock of its attitude towards important a personal affront if a question is asked important public questions. about some aspect of his administration." Its sensitive reaction to the slightest This morning Mr. Speaker spoke about the breath of criticism is not in the best inter­ asking of questions concerning matters of ests of Queensland. It tends to breed public interest. The editorial continues- a situation in which the proper public "In place of this sensitive approach the discussion of important matters becomes a Government should be doing its best to sort of live-or-die battle between the stimulate public discussion so that it can Government and its critics. better align itself with the public's wishes. "This has been discernible in almost It never should forget that it holds its every major issue that has been raised mandate as an instrument of the people." during the past two or three years. It The people will exercise that mandate on goes back to the hotly contested decision 9 December next at the Federal elections, to build the new morgue in a public and again in 1963 at the State elections if park; it was reflected in the head-on the coalition Government last that long. The collision between State and City Council "Telegraph" should be congratulated on its on traffic control measures and the future excellent editorial. That is the sort of thing of the municipal electricity undertaking. we want to see. "This hyper~sensitivity has brought the Even in the second paragraph of his Government's heavy calibre guns strongly Financial Statement deep gloom replaced the into action in defence of its land Treasurer's usual suave approach to problems administration policy . . ." and difficulties. His famous carnation was In the last year or two we have heard beginning to droop. I don't know if this criticisms from their own side of the land indicated he is a flirt, or if he is just administration policy. flirting with finance. He mentioned in the Financial Statement the record value of pro­ " ... the future of road and rail trans­ duction in mining, sugar and tobacco. I am port, and shopping hours." afraid he must have prepared the statement We have heard criticism of the Government long before the main series of tobacco sales. in respect of all those matters. But they We all know what happened there. We all will not listen to criticism. They are not know of the prices ring that operated, of the 882 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

rackets and of the poor deal the growers The Treasurer should have taken a bold received. I have here an article in "The marching step and budgeted for a larger Courier-Mail" J:readed "Tobacco 'Low' deficit if it would create more employment. Bewildering." It is by "The Courier-Mail" 's We must have full employment. The Treas­ land writer, Mr. F. Cornish, who knows urer said- what he is talking about. Another headline "Revenue was £1,106,529 less tha_!l fore­ to an article by Mr. Cornish reads, "Tobacco cast and expenditure was £704,572 below Collapse Inevitable Unless ..." He says- the estimate for the year." "Virtual collapse of tobacco-growing is Reading between the lines we can see that inevitable in many south-western areas the Treasurer must J:rate his Federal col­ unless the industry is able to conform with leagues in Canberra. In the Budget he casti­ the higher quality standards now being gates them not by name but by inference, demanded by manufacturers. in saying that the credit squeeze "had its "Rightly or wrongly, manufacturers have greatest impact on revenues derived from insisted that they no longer can conceal the Stamp, Succession and Probate Duties and larger volume of inferior Australian leaf Titles Office fees." The combined collections in their blends with imported tobacco." were the best part of £1,000,000 less than Who is responsible for the importing of all expected. So will the Treasurer be honest these items--chicken, ham, tobacco, bread, with me, as I know him to be, and admit that everything that we in Australia are producing the Menzies coalition Government have done to create employment? What about giving irreparable harm to Queensland? Australia a go instead of selling Australia to I should like to refer briefly to the overseas interests? tables to the Financial Statement. Time does not allow me to dwell at length on Mr. Hughes: Is it not up to Australians to the depressing financial affairs of the State. buy Australian-made goods? The hon. member for Roma is not in Mr. BROMLEY: It is up to the Australian the Chamber. Government to look after Australia for the good of the Australian people. That is more An A.L.P. Member: You have knocked than J:ron. members opposite have ever done. him out. Mr. Hugl:!es: What are you doing? Mr. BROMLEY: I have knocked him out. I remember his asking by way of Mr. BROMLEY: I am doing my best, in interjection what ideas we could put for­ my small way, to contribute something 1o ward to improve the economy of Queens­ this debate to force the Government to act land. I have already given a few and I towards improving the economy of the State. can assure hon. members that we shall I will not be sidetracked by these interjections. continue to put forward progressive ideas. I should like to quote in full Mr. Cornish's In my opinion five words provide the key article on the collapse of the tobacco industry to a stable economy: "Full employment is but it is there for anybody who wishes to see the answer." it. I know what the conditions in tJ:re industry are like. I spent two years growing Mr. Hughes: What is your plan for it? tobacco for experience and I know a little Mr. BROMLEY: For the information of about it. All hon. members opposite know the ignorant member for Kurilpa I say about tobacco is that they smoke it. They that if we occupied the Government benches probably hold shares in tobacco companies, there would be no unemployment. Even probably overseas companies, not Australian. if unemployment was brought about by the I shall move quickly through the Final!cial Menzies coalition Government, we would Statement. On the second page the Treasurer correct it. If we were on the Govern­ moved more quickly still when showing the ment benches we would soon show that upward trend of unemployment. we could correct it. On the deficit, I am in complete agree­ Government members generally have ment witi1 my Leader. I am not opposed to asked, "What are your ideas?" I have deficits in times of crisis and unemployment listened to them during this debate. Appar­ as serious as it is today. ently not many are going to speak after Mr. Smith: I take it that you do not me. They have asked, "What sensible ideas support the amendment? can you put up? What are you going to do to overcome unemployment?" The hon. Mr. BROMLEY: I have told the hon. member for Kurilpa asked that question. member that I honestly believe what my I want to ask them the question, "What Leader has already expressed, that I am sensible ideas has any Government mem­ not against a deficit in times of crisis and ber put forward?" We have listened to unemployment. We have heard comments on all sorts of stupid ideas. As a matter of the lack of sense in interjections. Listening fact some of the speeches almost made to the hon. member for Windsor all I can hear me sick, and it takes quite a lot to make is "whingeing from Windsor." I wisJ:r to me sick. We heard poppycock from the inject something constructive into this debate hon. member for Roma, wild and fantastic yet all I hear from the other side are these dreams and maniacal murmurings from the stupid interjections. hon. member for Merthyr and a tirade of Supply [19 OcTOBER] Supply 883 filth and perversion from the hon. member they were interjecting, and I just said, "Now, for Kurilpa. He cannot deny it; it is boys." I will not repeat it, Mr. Gaven, and recorded in "Hansard". It would appear I thank you for correcting me and putting to me that he delights in reading porno­ me on the correct path. graphic literature. Then we had the whinge­ ing of the hon. member for Windsor. And I will point out the two nasty statements, they ask us what ideas we can put forward! one of which is the racing and betting tax, and the second is the new liquor fees to Mr. SMITH: I rise to a point of order. be imposed. We all know about that one. I am desirous of correcting one of the many Our Leader and other Opposition members errors that are apparent in the hon. mem­ have spoken on it. On page 20 there is ber's speech. I have not spoken in this to be found one item that pleases me greatly; debate, so if he wants to be accurate he it is long overdue. Provision is made for should withdraw that statement. an increase in the Police Force. In my opinion, when the Government pass the legis­ Mr. BROMLEY: Thank you Mr. Gaven. lation for the relaxation of the liquor laws I did not have the chance to finish what we will need more police. That is shocking I was saying before the hon. member legislation. On page 21 the Treasurer said- for Windsor was on his feet, as quick as a " ... our economy is vulnerable to and flash. I intended to say that we had this can be vitally affected by adverse seasonal "whingeing from Windsor" in the Address in conditions, the United Kingdom's applica­ Reply debate. I know it was not on the tion to join the European Common Financial Statement because he has not had Market ..." the time, thanks to his outside practice, that Great Britain's proposed entry into the Euro­ takes up most of his time-when he should pean Common Market has caused quite a be looking after his electorate-to look at deal of apprehension about the immediate or study the Budget. He has not risen to economic effects of this threat to our exports his feet to speak on it. If he had only of primary produces-and rightly so. Perhaps waited a minute for me to tell him that even greater apprehension will arise from a the whingeing came from him during the possible weakening of Commonwealth ties Address in Reply debate there would have and the fear that it may be the beginning been no need for him to raise to his feet. of the end of the Commonwealth concept. Mr. Duggan: Even the messengers had diffi­ Now we have something to worry about, the culty in recognising him. weakening of Commonwealth ties and the fear that it may be the beginning of the Mr. BROMLEY: As my leader states, end of the Commonwealth concept. The even the messengers have difficulty recognis­ development of the Common Market in ing him. I saw the hon. member bailed up Europe represents to my mind the most as he came to the door one day, and I momentous political event in modern history. thought, "Who goes there?" I think we in Australia should be quite clear in our minds what it really means. The There has not been one constructive idea important thing to grasp, I think, is that advanced by any member of the Coalition the Market belies its name. It is not by Government to help the Treasurer in his very any means only an economic conception; difficult job, and I am the first to admit that rather than that, in essence it is a political his job is very difficult. conception and therefore of great significance Mr. Tucker: And it is made more difficult to the world. It has probably sprung from by those behind him. the terrible history of Europe in this century and the feeling deep-rooted in the thoughts Mr. BROMLEY: I am trying to point that of Europeans that things could not go on out. Not one progressive idea has been as they have in the past and that somehow forthcoming from Government members to or other a new Europe had to be created. help him. We must feel sorry for him in Unfortunately the Federal Government do his position. not appear to understand fully the implica­ There are two nasty statements in the tions and the meaning of the entry of summary on page 19 of the Financial State­ Britain into the Common Market or, if they ment. do, they have not indicated to the people of Australia, in terms that they can under­ Government Members interjected. stand, anyway, what it could mean to Aus­ tralia. No-one can deny that. It is of Mr. BROMLEY: Now, boys, turn to page tremendous importance to the people of 19. First of all, there is the new racing turn­ Australia and Queensland in particular, as over tax. we are in the first instance a primary­ producing State. We must fully understand The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. the possible implications. Whether the Gaven): I ask the hon. member to address Common Market is an end in itself or members of the Chamber as hon. members, whether it is the means to an end and and not "boys." where it will eventually lead perhaps no-one can say. Some say the ultimate outcome Mr. BROMLEY: I thought we were back could be a United States of Europe. That in the Fourth Form at St. Percy's the way bears thinking about. 884 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Can any of us say how Australia may Community is effective in creating com­ come out in the final reckoning from the mon economic policies, that will involve entry of Britain into the Common Market? making many political decisions in So, irrespective of the final result to Aus­ common too. tralia's trade with Britain, the Government "The kind of European union to which should without delay negotiate trade rela­ members of the Common Market commit tions with countries as close to Australia themselves is an open-ended affair: there as possible irrespective of political outlook. are no limits set to the process of We must trade with people we can get integration." money from. We have to get money to get for Australia the best progress possible On the other hand there is no commitment and the soundest economy. These countries to join a Federation of Europe. What is desire trade because of their teeming popu­ specifically promised is:- lations. Australia cannot afford to ignore "(a) EQUALITY of economic oppor­ any country that is desirous of trading with tunity for everyone throughout the Com­ her and that is in a position to pay for munity. By the time it is fully established the goods supplied. an Italian will have the right to set up It might be of interest to hon. members a shop anywhere in Germany; a German to know and will probably surprise many, worker will be free to displace a French­ that Britain has over 60 selling agencies man in a French factory if he is better in Russia alone, yet hon. members opposite qualified for the job; and the French talk about no trading with Communist coun­ worker will have the same rights in tries. Why do they not wake up to themselves Germany. Meanwhile goods, as well as and do something about trading with those people, will move freely, unimpeded by countries irrespective of their political out­ any form of national protection, through­ look? out the area. "(b) Member-States commit themselves I pose this question to the Federal Gov­ ernment and I know that the answer will be to a COMMON policy on a number of of great significance to the people of Aus­ issues-notably trade relations towards the tralia-"Will our preferences on the British rest of the world (i.e., abolition of separate market disappear entirely, as seems possible, trade treaties), agriculture and transport. or will we get assurances that our primary For other purposes, there will be co-ord­ producers will not suffer?" The Country ination of national policies, i.e., although Party people should be very concerned about national policies of members will not be that. identical, they will have to be designed to take account of the needs of the rest of the Mr. Low: They have the matter well in Community. hand. "2. THE COMMON MARKETS Mr. BROMLEY: They have nothing of TIMETABLE the sort. They would not know the first 'The European Economic Community thing about it. The hon. member has just comes into full operation in three stages, come into the Chamber and already he is each of which is to be four years' long. trying to butt in. What I want to know The end of the first stage is due at the end is: will we get the time to adjust our trade of December, 1962. The Common Market relations with these countries before Britain will be in full operation not later than does enter the Common Market? That is 1973; but, if no delay takes place, full the least we are entitled to expect. operation will be by 1970. Much as I should like to continue speak­ "Tariff Changes ing on the Financial Statement, I should "Already, the members have cut internal like to get before the people of Queensland tariffs by 40 per cent. and they may be this quotation from the London "Observer"- cut by a further 10 per cent. next year. "Guide to the Common Market All remaining internal tariffs must be removed by 1973 at the very latest." "The European Economic Community consists of six countries-Belgium, France, I notice that Country Party members are Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and The leaving the Chamber. They are not interested Netherlands. in Queensland's position in relation to the United Kingdom's entry into the Common "The Aims of the Common Market Market. "The aim of the European Economic The article continues- Community is to eliminate the traditional system of economic frontiers between "Common External Tariff national States in Europe." "The first moves have already been made towards a common external tariff, by This is what the Federal Government should raising or lowering national tariffs towards tell the people. It goes on- the eventual common level. "The final target is not precisely defined. The Treaty of Rome merely "Agriculture talks of establishing 'an ever-closer union' "By 1970-1973 at the latest, member among the States of Europe-but if the States will establish a common agricultural Supply (19 OCTOBER] Supply 885

policy designed to protect farmers within Mr. Ramsden: Who said all this? It is so the Community against the full force of long ago that I have forgotten. outside competition (generally by duties or levies on imports). Mr. BROMLEY: The hon. member was not in the Chamber when I began to read it. "Freedom of Labour Movement For his benefit, I shall mention that it is an "FREE MOVEMENT of workers is to extract from an article in "The Observer" be ensured by 1970-1973. This must include from London. Hon. members who have the the right of workers to "accept offers of good of Queensland and Australia at heart employment actually made" by an employer will find it worth listening to because it deals in another country. with the aims of the Common Market, which, "Professional men and businessmen will as I said, are not publicised by the Common­ be free to work in any country in the wealth Government. Community. The article continues- "Transport "The bureaucracy has three branches "There will be a common transport for the three organisations of the Com­ policy, including common rules applicable munity:- to international transport and limited per­ mission for one member country to operate 1. The Common Market Commis­ transport services within another. ~ion-nine members. 2. The High Authority of the Coal "The Community's General Policy and Steel Community-nine members. "The drafters of the Treaty did not Set up to pool the member countries' consider that a simple removal of trade resources of coal, iron and steel, in a restrictions and restrictions on labour move­ single market without frontier barriers. ment would, in themselves, lead to a sufficient degree of equality of economic "l. The Euratom Commission-five opportunity or of co-ordination of national members. Set up to give the Com­ economic policies. Provision was therefore munity a powerful nuclear industry for made for rules to establish and maintain peaceful uses. fair competition and to co-ordinate "The Common Market Commission has economic and social policy. the power to issue certain directives to "Economic Policy member Governments. These directives generally cover minor matters, but include "NATIONAL economic polices are to certain more important matters, notably be a matter of common interest and the power to grant tariff quotas to mem· consultation. The aims are stated to be to her countries on foodstuffs and on certain maintain balance-of-payments equilibrium raw materials, and to permit action to a high level of employment, and pric~ prevent dumping. stability. Exchange rate policy is to be a matter of 'common interest' (though "On other major matters, the Com­ Germany did not consult her partners mission can only make proposals to the before revaluing the mark this year). Action Council of Ministers. The Commission to deal with balance-of-payment difficulties is essentially a European civil service not is to be taken after consultation with the a federal Government: while it can pro­ Commission. pose, national Governments in the Council of Ministers have the power to dispose, "The Treaty does not provide for or envisage the need for common budgetary and are responsible for the implementa· policies. Monetary policies are to be tion of decision5. co-ordinated by a Monetary Committee "The Commission also administers the with con~ultative status. In practice, close EUROPEAN SOCIAL FUND, which can consultatiOn on overall economic policy make retraining and resettlement grants between governments will prove necessary and temporary unemployment grants to if the Common Market is to work workers displaced by competition in the satisfactorily. Common Market. "Social Polices "The EUROPEAN INVESTMENT "By 1962, there must be equal pay for BANK, which makes development loans, equal work by men and women workers. is administered by a Board of Governors There shall also be 'close collaboration' composed of Ministers appointed by mem­ between members in matters of labour ber States. legislation and social security. "The PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY "3. INSTITUTIONS OF THE EUROPEAN of 142 members is currently elected by COMMUNITY and from national Parliaments, but will "The main centres of power lie in the eventually be elected by direct suffrage. international bureaucracy, which is indepen­ Its duties are primarily to discuss the dent of national Governments, and in the work of the bureaucracies of the three Council of Ministers, which represents the organisations of the Community and it Governments. In addition, there is a has the power to question the bureaucrats. European Parliamentary Assembly and a "The COURT OF JUSTICE is also Court of Justice." common to all three organisations of the 886 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

Community. It consists of seven judges not prepared to defend their own Treasurer to 'ensure observance of law and justice in this debate and I sincerely hope that I in the interpretation and application of do not get too many interjections from the Treaty'." them during my brief remarks. Hon. mem­ As I have mentioned before, we are not bers who might wish to interject have had to be given the opportunity to debate the ample opportunity, had they so desired, to Estimates of the Department of Health and state their own cases on the floor of the Home Affairs because it is such a hot Chamber, but they have not done so. As potato, but as those Estimates are part of I say, I hope they have not the temerity the Budget I am at liberty to speak about to interject with me. them now. Fewer persons are to be During my time in this Parliament I employed in that department this financial have never known an instance when three year. I read with particular concern that members of the Opposition speak consecu­ in the important field of mental hygiene tively with not one member of the Govern­ 111 fewer persons will be employed. We ment supporting their own policy or the must recognise that with the maladministra­ Budget introduced by their Treasurer. I tion of the coalition Government in Queens­ think it is a shocking indictment of the land and their temporary cohorts in the Government. It demonstrates that the Federal sphere-! say "temporary" advisedly majority of backbenchers are not in accord -people are being driven crazy worrying with what appears in the Budget. If they about their future. But it is rather a were they would surely support it. tragedy that in a most important field like mental hygiene 111 fewer people are to I can understand their reluctance to be employed. support a Budget which was very adequately described by our Leader as "a booze and I have a letter here that I think should betting budget." I can also understand their be read to the Committee as it concerns reluctance to support the policy of the not only the Department of Health and Government who offer so little. Home Affairs but also the Department of Justice. It states- When we look at the Government's record, "X-ray Department, what do we find? They have a record of "General Hospital, deficits in this and the three previous years; "Townsville, Q. there is a record number of unemployed in the State and record losses in the Railway "Dear Mr. Ward, Department. I am pleased to see the "In the course of my normal duties Minister for Lands and Irrigation in the at the X-ray department at this hospital, Chamber because I cannot imagine anybody, I had occasion on 1 January, 1961, to even the hon. member for Roma, supporting take X-ray films on a patient who had their record on land matters so, as I say, been in a shooting incident. there is, after all, some excuse for hon. "A court case arose from this incident, members opposite being reluctant to stand and I was called upon firstly to give a up and support a Government with a record statement to the police to the effect that such as I have mentioned. I had taken certain X-ray films on the patient at that time, and then I had to Now, let us look at some of the things attend a sitting of the District Court as that the Government have done in the very short, but for the people of Queensland, a witness for the Crown. The times I very unfortunate period they have occupied had to attend the Court sitting were dur­ the Treasury benches. Despite the fact that ing my normal working hours. The the Mt. Isa dispute has been debated very attending doctor who saw the patient at adequately by hon. members on this side, the time of his admission also had to I feel it is my duty as an industrialist to attend during his normal working hours. make some brief comments on the unfor­ We were both told to be at the Court tunate position. I hope I state the facts by 10 a.m. that morning, and left work more fairly than they were stated by Gov­ here about 9.50 a.m. to be present. ernment members, including the hon. "When they decided we were no longer member for Aspley. He not only misrep­ required at the Court, we were both paid resented the position but proved conclusively witness fees by cheque, my fees being that he knew nothing about it or the causes £4 2s. ld. of it. He spoke very briefly because he "I have now received a notice from the could not find anything good to say about clerk at the office of the local Supreme the Government and could not support their Court, that because--" actions. - (Time expired.) Most hon. members know that I had lengthy industrial experience before entering Mr. DUFFICY (Warrego) (9.30 p.m.): It Parliament. During the whole of that time, seems rather a pity that such excellent going back to the sugar strike of 1911, I speeches are being made from this side to know of no industrial dispute in Queensland, a completely complacent Government who whether it lasted for three days, three weeks consider themselves entirely right in all cir­ or three months, that was not settled eventu­ cumstances. Hon. members opposite are ally by the Industrial Court. Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 887

Men have taken direct action. They I was on the A.W.U. Executive on the first demonstrated in that way their complete and occasion when the lead bonus was discussed absolute denial that they were getting justice and I know the history of the lead bonus in their working conditions, but sooner or from its inception. I was in court on numer­ later the dispute was settled by the Industrial ous occasions when bonus payments for Mt. Court. Isa Mines employees were under discussion. yve r~call the unfortunate position that Although on numerous occasions we did not ex1sted m Western Queensland during the receive from the Court what we thought the shearers' strike but I will not go into all the employees were entitled to, on every occasion ramifications of that dispute. Although it the employees accepted the bonus because lasted many months, eventually it was settled the Court said it was a fair and reasonable by the Industrial Court. What i5 the history thing. In all sincerity and honesty I . suggest of the lead bonus, a prosperity bonus or any that the position in Mt. Isa today 1s most other type of bonus in industry? The bonus unfortunate. is fixed by the Court and accepted by It appeared in the paper recently that the ~mployees. I challenge hon. members C'ppos­ Government were losing thousands and Ite to deny my statement that since the intro­ thousands of pounds a week becaus~ of the duction of the lead bonus at Mt. Isa, whkh loss of freight on the Mt. Isa lme. In was subsequently altered to a prosperity Mt. Isa there are 13,000 people whose liveli­ bonus, there has not been a scrap of industrial hood depends on that mine. Here we have trouble at Mt. Isa arising out of bonus pay­ an industry that a Labour Government sub­ ments. Even reductions granted by the Court sidised and helped to establish in the State, were accepted by the employees. Men who to their everlasting credit. are now on strike at Mt. Isa have always So we have a community of 13,000 people accepted the Court's decision on bonus pay­ and an industry that is of tremendous ments. The men are not on strike; they have economic value to the State. We have the been locked out. The dispute exists simply employer on the one hand and the employe~s because the Government denied those men the on the other locked in a struggle and 1t right of arbitration. The dispute occurred seems that that struggle may go on for only because the Government removed con­ months and months. sideration of bonus payments from the Court's jurisdiction. If the hon. member for Aspley What can the Government do about it? or any other hon. member denies that, he is While the Industrial Conciliation and Arbi­ not telling the truth. When the Industrial tration Act for which they were responsible Conciliation and Arbitration Bill was intro­ remains in operation they can do nothing duced into the Chamber there was then an about it simply because the court has no application before the Court by the unions authority to deal with it. But what the concerned for extra bonus payments and at Government can do, if they have the intes­ that time the Court ordered an investigation tinal fortitude to face up to their responsi­ to be made into the profits and the financial bilities is amend that legislation to give condition of the company so that it could the c~urt the right to decide what is fair decide what was a fair and reasonable bonus between employer and employee. for the men employed on the field. It is true, We hear hon. members opposite giving too, and may not be denied, that when the lip service to arbitration. They say, "Why Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Bill doesn't the worker abide by arbitration?" was passed that inquiry had to be discontinued Here we have an instance where they have because the Act took away from the Court deliberately taken away the right of arbi­ the power to make a decision on bonuses. tration from thousands of employees. If That, too, cannot be denied. When hon. they want to face up to their responsibiliti~s members speak about Mt. Isa they should in the matter-and surely to goodness m speak factually. If the Court had been allowed the interests of Queensland and in the to adjudicate on bonus payments, I venture interests of 13,000 people in Mt. Isa they to say that whether the bonus remained at must-the Government should have the intes­ £8 a week or whether it was increased, the tinal fortitude to say, "We made a mistake men would have accepted the decision. Hon. in this matter and because we made that members must remember that I am fortified mistake this unfortunate position exists today. when I make that remark because since the If they have the intestinal fortitude to do inception of bonus payments the men have that and to amend the Industrial Conciliation accepted the decision of the Court on bonuses. and Arbitration Act, giving the court the We must not be hypocritical about it. I right to decide what is a fair and reasonable believe there is more in this than meets the bonus-and that is the only way the court eye. In my opinion there is a very good can function-in my opinion (and I am reason for the Mt. Isa Mines Company to speaking advisedly and with past history to lock the men out. However, I will not go back me up) the men in Mt. Isa will accept into that because it would be merely supposi­ the court's decision. They are entitled to tion on my part and I do not believe in go to the court. making statements in this Chamber that I I make that suggestion in all seriousness. cannot prove. I assure hon. members that all It is not good enough to sit back and say, the statements I have made about Mt. Isa "Let the men in Mt. Isa starve." Rest are true, and I challenge any Government assured that the shareholders in Mt. Isa will member to deny what I have said. not starve because the company made a 888 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Supply

profit of almost £6,000,000 last financial year important, the drawing of land ballots is and paid a dividend of something like 25 per particulaTly important because of the value cent. to its shareholders. If the mine is of the commodity involved. If hon. mem­ closed for the next 12 months the share­ bers do not believe that, I should like to holders will not be very seriously incon­ bring to their notice that a block of land in venienced because over the two-year period the Pentland district about 80 or 90 square they will get 12t per cent. per annum as miles in area was sold for £25,250 12 dividend. But what are the men getting out months after it was drawn. That sum was of it? And who was responsible for making paid for it although it was unstocked and that £6,000,000 profit and that 25 per cent. unfenced and in exactly the same condition dividend? Surely to goodness the men who as it was in when the ballot was conducted. worked there were partly responsible for it! I notice that the Minister for Public Lands They played an important part in it. If we is taking a note, so I shall save him the talk about the necessity for capital on the trouble. I know very well that in normal one hand and labour on the other, surely circumstances it is not possible to sell a lab1;mr is entitled to its share of the pros­ block you have drawn, under 12 months. per~ty of an industry if capital is entitled But in this particular case, to put the Minis­ to Its share. The shareholders who received ter in the picture, I point out that the block a dividend of 25 per cent. from Mt. Isa was drawn by a man named J. M. Huntress. Mines Ltd. did not have to appeal to Shortly after he drew the block he passed anybo~y to get it; they did not have to go away. Consequently the block went to his on stnke or be locked out. It was paid wife. The Minister, very rightly I think, !O .them and that was all about it. So surely gave the wife the right to sell it. That It Is only fair and just that the men employed was quite reasonable in the circumstances !here should have the right of appeal to an because obviously she could not have worked mdepen?ent tribunal that can decide what it. I mention that only because of the price proportiOn of the prosperity they are entitled that was paid for it. It was not paid by to by way of bonus payments. an adjoining grazier but by a Mr. Collins . Let. me .conclude my remarks on the of Kelso Station near Marlborough, the situatiOn at Mt. Isa by making a final appeal block of land in question being at Pentland to the Premie~. If I have not a great deal in North Queensland. He paid £25,250 for o.f confidence m the Premier's political fore­ the block that had previously been drawn sig~t, o~, to. use the vernacular, nous, I do by Huntress. The block was unstocked­ believe .m his personal integrity and fairness. in exactly the same condition. It indicates !n the ~nterests of the economy of the State, the value of a block of land immediately m the mterests of everybody associated with it is drawn. Consequently it is important Mt.. I·sa, particularly the workers and the that the people who are allowed to enter busmess community, and in the interests of land ballots should be considered very the ~ailway Department, I believe that the closely. At least the Government should Premier, as Leader of the Government have a policy on these matters, but I say should. take the earliest opportunity of advisedly that the Government have no policy amendmg the Industrial Conciliation and at all on land matters. Arbi~ration Act to enable the Commission Mr. Dewar: You are wrong there. !o giv~ a ?ecisioJ? on this matter. Every Mr. DUFFICY: I will point out how mdustnal dispute m Queensland with which wrong I am and let the Minister correct me! I have been associated over the years has I gave the instance of Nive Downs in south­ finally been settled by the Court Under western Queensland where a screening took existi~g conditions the Commissi~n cannot place. I was told that the reason that appli­ funct~on, and I . am suggesting that the cants for Nive Downs were screened was Premier should give it that opportunity. to prevent New South Wales applicants from I am very pleased to see that the Minister entering the ballot. for Public Lands and Irrigation is in the Mr. Fletcher interjected. Chamber, because I now wish to deal with land matters. During the debate on the Mr. DUFFICY: I am not saying the Minis­ motion for the adoption of the Address-in­ ter told me. That was true. Reply I ·spoke very briefly about land Mr. Fletcher: Are you saying the informa­ ballots. . Unfortunately, my time expired tion was true or your informant-- and I ~Id not have an opportunity then of developmg my argument. As the Estimates Mr. DUFFICY: I was informed through a for the Department of Public Lands will reliable source. I am not telling the Minis­ not come before the Chamber this is the ter who informed me. That was the informa­ only opportunity I have of speaking on land tion I received on an official basis-let me matters. put it that way. I took the opportunity to attend the Nive Downs ballot. The first In dealing with land ballots we are dealing person to draw a block lived in New South with something that involves a good deal Wales. I made inquiries from officers of of money. When a person is fortunate the Department of Public Lands. Let me enough to draw a block of land, he obtains say right now that I have no complaints an asset worth a considerable amount of whatsoever to make about any officer of money. Just as the drawing of a Gold~n that department. I think they are competent. Casket or any other type of ballot is 1 have received every courtesy from them Supply [19 OCTOBER] Supply 889 on all occasions. I am not complaining Downs. He was a resident of Charleville who about them. When I made inquiries from had managed some of the biggest properties departmental officers about the Nive Downs in that area. He was regarded as one of the ballot I learned that of the six applicants most capable men in the Charleville district I inquired about, only one was admitted. and was financially guaranteed by a grazier in Strange as it may seem he was a relative the district. I am not going to mention his of a grazier. The others who had been name here, but if the Minister wants to guaranteed by financial companies and know his name, I will tell him privately. graziers, men who had spent a lifetime in the industry who could not under any circum­ Mr. Fletcher: I do, of course. stances be rejected because of lack of experi­ Mr. DUFFICY: He is only one of many. ence in the industry, were not accepted in As I say, he was rejected in the Nive Downs that ballot. Now let us pass from that. ballot whilst a Kyabra block was drawn by Mr. Fletcher: I should like you to give me a 21-year-old girl, the daughter of a grazier, some information on this. who was obviously incapable of conducting the block herself and who obviously had Mr. DUFFICY: I wrote the Minister a no experience. She was admitted to the ballot letter and he replied to it. I pointed out the and was successful. If the Government a_re stupidity of the conditions laid down in going to have a group ballot, let them tell connection with Nive Downs and I belatedly us so and justify the decision. If they are received a reply after the Minister had going to establish open ballots, tell the changed the conditions and published them people out there so and justify the decision. in "Country Life," which I considered not But do not jump from one policy to another. altogether courteous to me. That actually Lay down a definite policy and, having done happened, and, if the Minister wants verific­ so, justify it and stick to it. It is not any ation of it I refer him to the files of the wonder that there is discontent among the "Charleville Times," where I published my people of the West in relation to the land letter to him and his reply. policy of the Government. The Government Passing from Nive Downs, to support my cannot even make up their mind about what contention that the Government have no is a reasonable living area or any other policy in connection with land ballots, let us fundamental matter. go to Kyabra. It also is in south-western Mr. Ewan: Do you believe we should Queensland. The Minister rejected the people have group ballots in grazing areas in the I spoke of in connection with the Nive West or not? Downs ballot but in the Kyabra ballot a girl Mr. Fletcher: He does not know. He is of 21 years of age, absolutely without any all mixed up. experience at all was admitted to the ballot and drew one of the blocks. If the Minister Mr. DUFFICY: Do not tell me I am calls that a policy, I wish to know what the mixed up. I am here as a critic. I am policy is. stating exactly what happened and it is Mr. Fletcher: Apparently you do not know not much use the Minister's asking me very much about it. questions as to what I believe or do not believe. I am asking the Government to Mr. DUFFICY: I do not know anything state their policy. I believe in open ballots about it. I am simply telling the Minister but I also agree there should be a measure exactly what happened. I can tell him the of screening of people from New South names of the people, but I do not want to Wales. Under existing conditions, whether mention them here. He rejected hundreds of the ballot is open or a group ballot, appli­ applicants in connection with Nive Downs. I cants from New South Wales who own know he will say that was in a group ballot hundreds of thousands of acres there may and that the other was an open ballot but I take part in it. The same conditions do wish to know why the Nive Downs block was not apply to local applicants. A local appli­ balloted for as a group ballot and the cant who owns a living area cannot take Kyabra blocks as an open ballot. Where is part in a land ballot in Queensland. The the policy there? That is what the western Minister knows very well that New South people want to know. The Government have Wales graziers have been successful in no policy. Queensland ballots that they would not have been allowed to take part in if they Mr. Fletcher: Do you think they should all owned in Queensland the area of land they be in group ballots? own in New South Wales. Mr. DUFFICY: No, I did not say they Mr. Fletcher: Did your own Government should all be groups. screen them? Mr. Fletcher: I am just asking. Mr. DUFFICY: I am not talking about my Government; I am talking about the Mr. DUFFICY: I am not laying down a present Government's policy. policy in this Chamber; I am telling the Mr. Fletcher: You are getting all mixed Government that they have no policy. I am up. saying that in the two ballots in south-west Queensland the conditions were entirely Mr. DUFFICY: I am particularly sorry different. One man was rejected in Nive the Minister's Estimates are not coming up 890 Supply [ASSEMBLY] Questions for discussion. I should be pleased to debate land matters with him in the Cham­ ber, and more than pleased to discuss them with him on the public platform in Western Queensland. I know who would get the greater support. I know who would be regarded in Western Queensland as having the greater knowledge of land matters. Mr. Fletcher: You are not demonstrating it very clearly. Mr. DUFFICY: The Minister is not put­ ting up much of an argument in reply. If he takes the opportunity of speaking before the debate concludes I should like him to answer one or two simple questions, first, the reason for the difference in policy on Nive Downs and Kyabra, and, second, why for the first time to my knowledge the group ballot system was adopted in far western pastoral areas. If the Minister is prepared to give his policy, I shall be prepared to listen, but I do not think he has one, nor do the people of the West, or the paper of the Minister's party, "Country Life". That is all I am going to say on land matters. Mr. Fletcher: That will be plenty. Mr. DUFFICY: I am sorry for the Minister when I attack him because I feel that I have him at a distinct disadvantage. I know the West and have lived there for many years. I was interested in and have rather a good knowledge of pastoral matters and with all due respect to the Minister I do not think he can afford to get sarcastic with me. Just before he became a Minister I was present in Cunnarnulla when he opened the Show and among other things he said in his speech, "This is the first occa­ sion I have ever been West in my life." The Minister said that publicly so I advise him not to get sarcastic with me when refer­ ring to my knowledge of pastoral matters and Western matters generally. I could quite easily lose the Minister on those subjects. Without wearying the Committee any further with land matters, let me say in conclusion that the Treasurer introduced his Budget to which an amendment was moved by my Leader, which, of cour·se, I support. The Treasurer and Cabinet Ministers, in my opinion, have received very little support from their back benchers. I feel rather sorry for them because no matter what their capabilities may be as debaters they find it difficult to advance convincing arguments in support of the Budget produced by the Treasurer. Without doubt, it was a "booze" and "betting" Budget and the extra £1,500,000 that the Treasurer expects to receive will come in the main from the person who likes to put a pound on a hor.se, or likes a glass of beer. In the main, it will come from the pockets of the class represented by hon. members on this side of the Chamber for which hon. members opposite have very little regard. Progress reported. The House adjourned at 10.13 p.m.