261 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 262 (Railways)

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R. RAMAKRISHNAN): The clarifications will continue after the Half-an Hour Discussion. Now we take up the Appropriation (Railways) No. 4 Bill. Shri Ghani Khan Chaudhuri. AN HON. MEMBER: What about the next Bill? THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R. RAMARKISHAN); The Emigration BiH may not come up today.

THE APPROPRIATION (RAIL- WAYS) NO. 4 BILL, 1988 THS» MINISTER OF RAILWAYS (SHRl A. B. A. GHANI KHAN CHAUDHURY: Sir, I move the BiH:

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R. RAVtAiCRISHNAN): Do you want to speak?

S^3RI A. B. A. GHANI KHAN CHAUDHURI; I do not want to speak. First let the Members speak.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (Shri R. RAMAKRISHNAN): But you have to move the motion and speak on it. SHRI A. B. A. GHANI KHAN CHAUDHURI): Sir, I beg to move: That the Bill to authorise pay ment and appropriation of certain further sums from and out of the Consolidated Fund of India for the services of the financial year 1983- 84 for the purposes of Railways, as paused by the Lok Sabha, be taken in*o consideration." Tha question was proposed. ______263 The Appropriation [RAJYA SABHA] No. 4 Bill im 264 (Railways) provided is too small for it. During the TBE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R, budget speech, the Railway Minister RAMAKRISHNAN): Shri Ladli Mohan himself said that he made a proposal to Nigam—not there; Shri Aurobindo the Planning Commission, but the Ghosh—not there; Shri Hari Shankar Planning Commission was able to Bhabhra—not there, shri sanction only half of what was Mohanarangam—not there. Shri M. required. I do not know whether the Kalyanasundaram. Railway Board and the Planning SRRI GHANSHYAMBHAI OZA Commission are alive to the seriousness of (Gujarat): The Janata Party may be the situation. The track capacity is very called first. limited and it is bad in many places. We have improved since ou* independence. I THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R. do not say that we have not done anything. RAMAKRISHNAN): I will have to go We are now able to see long-distance b> the list provided to me. (Interruptions) trains from Cape Comorin even up to the That list is not here it might come slu*i borders of Kashmir. And we find super- Kalyanasundaram. fast trains. These are all improvements, no doubt. But correspondingly, do SHRI M. KALYANASUNDARAM we, do the Railway Board and the (Tamil Nadu): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, Planning Commission, devote enough .his Appropriation Bill for Supplementary attention and find resources for Grants is for a total of about Rs. 175 improvement of the basic infrastructure, crores under one Head. It is an important that is, rolling stock track capacity and Head: acquisition of assets, rolling stock, power? Fourth comes staff. They will renewal of tracks, improvement of our all blame the staff for all the signalling system. These are the main irregularities and failures of the Railways. items of expenditure. I will make some points and I will (The Vice-Chairman (Shri R. E. request the Railway Minister to answer Morarka) in the Chair). these points. Having introduced super- fast trains and having anticipated This comes in one lump. During the increased offer of goods traffic, what are Question Hour this morning, our Railway the efforts undertaken? The capacity of Minister was in great difficulty to answer our locomotives is less than 3,000 H.P. questions about punctuality of trains, etc. How much can they haul? The best loco etc. What are the main reasons for the can haul 2,000 to 2,500 tonnes. Are you crisis which the Railways are facing satisfied with this? Should you not go in today? One is bad planning. T *o no* for production of locomotives with 6,000 know whether to blame the Planning H.P. capacity? Where is the proposal? If Commission or the Railways themselves you add one more coach to our long- who have to plan for their own needs. distance trains, which have 20 or 21 Ever since the end of the Fourth Plan, coaches, you have to put two engines. during the whole period of ten yearg of Two engines haul our Grand Trunk the Fifth Plan and the Sixth Plan, there Express and Tamil Nadu Express and was no effort *o add to the rolling even the goods trains. What does it show? stock—locomotives or wagons or It shows that a single loco has only half passenger coaches. The figures supplied the capacity to haul such trains. So have by the Railway Board itself speak for you plans to go in for increasing the themselves. They have been slack power of the locomotives? I think our indifferent for the past ten years with Research Designs and Standards Or- regard to improvement of rolling stock. ganisation of the Railways which is There ia stagnation. Even if they want to make up for this back-log, the amount 265 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 Bill 1983 266 (Railways) functioning near Lucknow can apply its speak from my personal experience of a mind to it, and our own workshops—two city like Madras. In Madras there are workshops are there, the Chittaranjan Loeo two gauges, metre gauge and broad Works and the Varanasi Diesel gauge. Why cannot they convert the Works—can be put to service to improve the capacity ol the locomotives. Unless these metre gauge suburban into broad gauge steps are taken, we can only do some suburban? Madras is a sprawling city; there political stunts—oh! the super-fast train is a lot of industrial development is running, the Rajdhani Express is taking place there; vast numbers of office employees, factory-workers, and others running, the Tamil Nadu Express is running. Can you stabilise? You can increase have to use the suburban train. But the the speed. (Time-bell rings). As regards arrangement is very poor even where there amenities to passengers, they have got is broad gauge railway. Between Madras superfast coach repair workshops Central and Tiruvallur and betwen Madras separately. (Time bell rings). But they are and Gummidi-pudi EMUs are very few. not staffed properly or the coaches are not You had ordered for EMUs in connection attended to properly. The condition of even with Asian Games. What happened to the the prestigious coaches is very bad because surplus EMU coaches? They can be of bad maintenance at the originating diverted to Madras. Our Minister is a stations. Secondly, about the travel to be dynamic person, although this morning his happy and pleasant. There was some performance was not so good. But he is a clamour for food with the introduction of the man who can make bureaucrats work. socalled base kitchen. But now the So, what happened to EMUs? But don't prices have gone up. From Rs. 2 it has think only of Calcutta, Malda and West gone up to Rs. 4 and non-vegetarian food Bengal always. You are Railway Minister now costs Rs. 6. The standard is very bad. The result is that passengers are unable to of India. You are able to send trains to touch the base kitchen food. Therefore, Malda. Of course, it is a backward area. you must study this catering arrangement I support it. But have the same energy and make necessary improvements. and same drive in improving the railways (Time-bell rings) Then about reservation all over India, not only of West BengaL there are a lot of complaints. You are now So I would request you to direct some going to introduce computers for EMU coaches to Madras, (time-bell reservation. But computers rings) Another thing is about the wheel and alone will not solve the problem un- i less you axle. Wheel and axle can be produced in Durgapur Steel Works. It is very increase the capacity of our passenger trains closeby. But the Railway Board does not and superfast trains. But please ensure that order for the wheel and axle from there. your computerisation does not affect the There is another Project which is coming existing . staff. They must b trained and up near Bangalore for the production of e wheel and axle alone for our coaches. It is absorbed in the computer system without any also very slow. They are ordering from loss of employment. As regards suburban outside; they are importing wheel and railways, recently the commuter rates were axle. Then if the Railways incur losses, increase out of proportion, even I after the who is to blame? Similarly, our railway Budget was passed. But what is the service workshops are capable of constructing V any number of wagons. Golden Rock that the railways are F ^S to the commuters? could produce 1,200 wagons. But now 1 can it is used only for repair and maintenance works. The Railway Convention Committee has

267 The Appropriation [RAJYA SABHA] JVo. 4 Bill, 1983 268 (Railways) [Shri M. Kalyanasundaram] Transit System, partly overhead and partly rail_ underground. This will cost Rs. 150 made recommendation that the Way a crores. This was the old estimate. Now it workshops should be strengthened so as to will cost more. For this a provision of produce more wagons. The Integral Coach only Rs. l crore ha been allotted in the Factory can produce 850 wagons. In the s supplementary grant. It ig very meagre. past both in the Railway Convention No use blaming the Planning Commission Committee and in the House I had raised alone or the Finance Ministry alone. We that its full capacity was not being should blame all of them together. In utilised. Today it is admitted that there is providing the cheapest mode of transport, capacity for IOO more coaches. I all the n railway is next only to water transport. railways there is an anomaly and the How i it then that so much money is complaint is that good coaches are used s spent on road transport? If only you for long distance trains or prestigious concentrate on Railways, you can give the trains and in the zonal railways rotten and cheapest mode of transport to the country. overaged coaches are only used. This anomaly must be rectified by ordering for THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRl R. R. more coaches from our own factories. MORARKA): You must conclude now. Regarding railway earnings, both ln the budget speech and even now, it became SHRI M. KALYANASUNDARAM: clear that goods traffic anticipated is not Tiiere are fifteen and half lakhs of materialising. It is not the fault of the permanent employees and two and half Railways. It is due to steel, coal and Uikhs of casual labour in the railways. cement industries making inflated Even gangmen are treated as casual estimates of their production. Accordingly labour. How long are you going to treat the Railways have increased their these people as casual? Why don't you capacity. But the traffic is not offering. regularise them? Otherwise, the question Who is to meet the cost? Do not make any of age will come and it will become proposal for increase in the rates of freight difficult to make them permanent at that and fare. I can understand what is working stage. There are only 11000 posts for these in the minds of the Railway Board and the two and half Iakhs of casual labour. . Railway Minister. Do not try to shift the burden Ior your failure and the failure of THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRl R-R. the Planning Commission. For their fail- MORARKA): You must conclude now. ures do not make the railway users to pay for it. SHRI M. KALYANASUNDARAM: My last point. . . Thig morning, discussing the question THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRl R. R. of conversion, the Minister admitted that MORARKA): You have already taken he made a proposal to the Planning fifteen minutes. Now you must conclude. Commission for Rs. 600 crores. What about conversion of the line from SHRI M. KALYANASUNDARAM: Dindigul to Tuticorin to connect the Cost of living index is going up and let harbour there? I think it is relegated to the them pay the dearness allowance that has background. Only a small amount has become due. Let them make the proposal been allocated for conversion of another for that t0 the Finance Ministry. You send line from Dindigul to Karur. the proposals to the Finance Minister and make the payment. Don't try the patience Madras city transport is in a Btate of b* the raiiwaymen. crisis. There is a proposal to construct what is called the Rapid 269 Ke Appropriation [24 AUG. 1983] JVo. 4 Bill, 1983 270 (Railways) THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R-R, MORARKA): There are 18 Members from the Congress (I) and the total time available is 1 hour and 17 minutes which cornes to about six minutes per speaker. Yes, Mr. Ramanand Yadav. SHRI RAMANAND YADAV (Bihar): You fix the time-limit . But how many minutes did you allot to Mr. Kalyanasundaram? THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R. R. MORARKA): You start now. SHRl RAMANAND YADAV: T am starting. But what was the time allotted to his party? That also you must see. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R. R. MORARKA): You proceed now. SHRl RAMANAND YADAV: Yes, I will proceed. But be kind enough. SHRI SYED SIBTEY RAZI (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, I wish you remained till the end of the discussion in the Chair because I "think you will be successful in conducting the proceedings of the House. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R-R. MORARKA): Thank you. Yes, Mr. Ramanand Yadav, you proceed. SHRI RAMANAND YADAV: Sir, you should apply the same yardstick to everybody. THE VICE-CHAIitMAN (SHRI R. R. MORARKA): You proceed now. Let us see. SHRI RAMANAND YADAV: Sir, kindly control those people sitting I in the corner.

271 The Appropriation [RAJYA SABHA] No. 4 Bill, 1983 272 (Hallways)

273 The Appropriation [24 AUG. 1983] No. 4 Bill, 1983 274 (Railways)

275 The Appropriation [RAJYA SABHA] No. 4 Bill, 1983 276 (Railways) '

277 The Appropriation t 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 278 (Railways)

SHRI GHANSHYAMBHAI OZA: Mr. Vice- Chairman, Sir, if one were to ask as to who is the Minister in this Government who is carrying on the most onerous and unenviable, job, one would immediately identify our hon. Minister here. I have all my sympathies with him. In some, of his own utterances, he has demonstrated what frustration he feeis because of so many factors, not of his own, but because of so many constraints that he is facing from some other Departments also. For example, he hag been saying that the Finance Ministry and the Planning Commission are not giving him as much funds as he requires for toning up the Railway administration and fulfilling the ambitions of the concerned persons. Anyway, Sir, all of us know very well that the Railway system is the greatest public sector unit in this country. We have invested crores of rupees, and we have spread all our tentacles all over the country. People complain about so many things in the Railway administration, about corruption as the hon. speaker who preceded me said, about inefficiency, about mismanagement, about law and order and so many other things. But, Sir, sometimes I ask myself: Is the Railway functioning in an ivory tower in thia country? Are all Departments nof affected by its malignancy? Which Department is free from thjs malady,

279 The Appropriation [RAJYA SABHA] Na. 4 Bill, 1983 280 (Railways) [Shri Ghanshyambhai Oza] I have seen many people in the villages who have not seen, a railway coach or whether it is the telephones which we were engine. They are living in the remotest discussing the other day or any subject parts of this country. When they come to a under the sun? And these charges are railway station or they see a railway line, levelled against all the Departments in they are surprised. Lakhs of people are this poor, blessed country. Corruption, like that. I know, you will immediately inefficiency, mis. management, react and say that lakhs of people are insubordination, indiscipline and all these travelling by this system but which are things have corroded all the Departments. those Iakhs of people. Re^ peatedly I say And what is happening in this country? that they are the urban people, the well— You are spreading the tentacles all over placed people in the rural aras who are the country, in the remotest parts of the taking advantage of the railway system. It country. You are employing lakhs of is true. But yet there are crores of people karamcharis. Railways, for example, who are not taking any advantage of the employs the highest number of railway system and still they are paying employees. You cannot inspire them nor through indirect taxes for keeping up all can you control them. This is the this show in this poor country. So, I would position. This is the state of affairs. I urge the Minister to be very thoughtful do not hold him responsible. This is the about how to do these things. I know that cumulative effect of what we have been he is under great pressure to put a line doing in this country for the last so many here and a line there. Immediately I am years that you can neither inspire nor going to suggest to him something but control tho Iakhs of karmacharis. only on economic grounds, just as You are spreading in so many parts of economic survey takes place, a traffic the country. Therefore, it is a poor state survey should also take place and only of affairs. And in this poor country, then should we put up new railway lines. through their blood and sweat, the poor But we have been seeing for the last so people are paying taxes, both direct and many years that some railway lines are put indirect, through their nose. What is the only because of political pressure &nd not rate of direct taxes? How many people are because of any economic return. Why paying income-tax? Only a very small should we do so? I think it is not a fair percentage. But Iakhs of people, crores exercise. of people, poor people, through indirect taxes are paying heavily through their Sir, in tbe previous budget he had asked nose. And what is the return? Why is it for Rs. 150 crores for locomotives, for so? We have got to have a fundamental diesel engines. Now he has come forward look at all these things. As I said, in the to have Rs. ll crores or something like railways, we have invested crores of that. We know that these locomotives are rupees. After all, the railways is a public not utilised to the extent to which they utility concern. It is rendering service to should be. Their capacity is lying idle. the people. Why should we not be That is what I am told. The capacity of economical in freight rates and steam engines and diesel engines is not passenger rates? Some friends will not being utilised to the fullest extent possible agree with me. After all, we are rendering because as was suggested or argued, the a service-tve are not running a charity freight traffic has not picked up to the show. * you are rendering a service, you expectatioi which you thought, 30 million nust have adequate rjetums from hose tonnes or something like that. That ls why persons ^hom you are serving. Vrry our locomotives are lying idle and we are Aiould it be at the cost of Iakhs nd citifes not getting good returns on what of people who are not tak-tg »V advantage of this system? 28I i BS* Appropriation [24 AUG. 1983] No. 4 Bill, 1983 282 XRoUways) we have invested in these engines. I SHRI GHANSHYAMBHAI OZA: would request the hon. Minister to see Have courage. Having taken courage ia so that more coaches and more wagons are many other ways, why not do it here also? built so that this capacity caa also be You have gathered courage; you are utilised. Today instead of only investing showing your boldness in fields where in locomotives to carry this burden, we you should not, and where you should, have also to see that these locomotives you are not exhibiting your bravery and are also having sufficient number of boldness. That is because you are afraid of wagons and sufficient coaches to serve losing votes. Why are you not doing it the people. That will also give some good otherwise? (Interruptions). I am speaking economic return to the railway. I would about the present state of affairs in the request the hon. Minister to look into country. I do not hold my finger or accuse these things very closely. one particular party. This is the cumulative effect of what all the Sir, I am very glad that he has re politicians have done in this country after cently made some changes about the freedom, in aU the spheres. All of us are visitors entry to platforms. Our plat guilty. But the present Government is forms, I think, are more crowded more guilty than any other Government of than in any other country of the any other party. I must frankly say it. You world. I have seen no country where have knocked down all morality from the platforms are so crowded not only public life of this country and also we too with human beings but with cattle have contributed in knocking down some laso; dogs, cows and what not. These morality but whatever the semblance was animals are also moving on the plat there, you have completely knocked it forms without having a platform down from tPls country. And thus, you ticket. are more sinful; I have no hesitation in saying this . . . (Interruptions). | SHRI SYED SIBTEY RAZI: What happened when you were our Chief ! SHRI HARI SHANKAR BHABHRA Minister? (Rajasthan): They have a permanent pass from the Railway Ministry. ("Shri Ghanshyaribhai Oza] hope you understand all these things. ' It is a SHRI GHANSHYAMBHAI OZA: I question of degree. I do not i say have seen in very thickly populated only you are guilty. I said all of us are countries like China that when a train equally guilty ... (Interrwptions) . leaves, there is nobody on the platform. But unfortunately in this country people THE VICE-CHAIRMAN CSHRI R. R. flock to the platforms to say good bye to MORARKA): No Interuptions; please sit their relatives. So many people go to the platforms. I • once argued with the down. Railway Minister and I suggested that you SHRI HAYAT ULLA ANSARI must levy a very heavy charge on the (Nominated): Are you sure that your platform ticket, say five rupees. Can't yardstick is correct? people say good-bye at their doors, at their houses? Why should they crowd the SHRI GHANSHYAMBHAI OZA: I platforms? What ia happening today is, know these unpalatable things do not suit even the hospitals are crowded by so many you. You are all accustomed to have people unnecessarily . palatable things. You want things which are pleasing; you are not prepared to SHRI A. B. A. GHANI KHAN listen to unpleasant CHAUDHURI: We ourseives feel like that; but it is very difficult to control. 283 The Appropriation [RAJYA SABHA] No. 4 Bill,1983 ,284

[Shri Ghanshyambhai Oza] (Interruptions) things. I know; because you are all Anyway, I will leave it at that. seekers of power; nothing else binds you. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRl R. R. Tell me, which economic and social MORARKA: Go to your next point ideology binds you? (Interruptions). Only (Interruption) powsr binds you; political power is the only connecting link. I know all of you. SHRI GHANSHYAMBHAI OZA: What common thing you have? Sir I know, Railways are after all a public (Interruptions). I know that I have service organisation. But when new lines annoyed some friends unnecessarily are to be laid, we should first carry out because they do not under, stand what I traflic survey, economic survey and aU am saying ... (Interruptons). In all these things. And only when it is humility I ask, what is the socio- economic, we should have new line,s. economic philosophy which binds you? Otherwise not. Becaus© 1 see some new Tell me, what is the philosophy that binds lines are laid only to oblige some you, except poutical power? politicians. I think, it should not be so. At the same tune, I would like to make a SHRI VISHVAJIT PRITHVIJIT suggestion hi regard to Gujarat. I would SINGH (Maharashtra): The Congress like the hon. Minister to get this examined philosophy; it is tho philosphy of on merits. Not because I am saying this. Congress that binds us; it is the For example, you have laid a broad gauge philosophy of the father of the nation, it is line up to Hapa, near Jamnagar. This is the philosophy of Pandit Jawaharlal only a few kms. away, only a few kms. Nehru, it is the philosophy of our great from Jamnagar. Jamnagar is a big city. It leader, our Prime Minister, Shrimati is only a few kms. away from Hapa. But Indira Gandhi ... (Interruptions) . you are not extending this broad gauge line from Hapa to Jamnagar, and you know SHRI GHANSHYAMBHAI OZA: He how much inconvenience is being felt does not hear. I knew that they are all by the people in that very big city, which building up their records; they are trying is. an industrial city. The population is to build up their confidential records by very large. You are not extending the standing up one by one... (Interruptions). broad gauge line from Hapa to Jamnagar, I knew that it is going to be flat ... whicii is only a few kms. away. I am sure, (Interruptions). if you extend this line, it will give you better returns. This will give you It does not matter. But you should see the greater returns. writing on the wall. You will remember me after some time. All of us will be Then, Sir, Saurashtra is producing 60 responsible for what is happening in this per cent of the salt which is required by country, in future. Remember . All of us the country, both marine salt as well as will be responsible, including myself. inland salt. Now, Dharan-gadhra is a (Interruption) You have fulfilled your particular area which is producing inland responsibility by shouting. salt and this is connected with broad gauge. But farther away, there are so SHRI VISHVAJIT PRITHVIJIT many salt fields where so much salt is SINGH: I did not shout. I spoke in my being produced. But th-e broad gauge line normal voice. is not being extended further. If you extend the line from Dharangadhra to SHRI GHANSHYAMBHAI OZA: Sir, some salt producing areas farther away, I they are more to be pitied than to be hope, you will have better returns on what laughed at. They are more Io be pitied. you are investing in this line. You 285 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 286

will have better returns on what you have invested in this line. This will also help people in the farthest areas, when connected with broad gauge, to have salt at a lower price. I would request the hon. Minister to examine these two proposals only on merits and if you find that the economic survey justifies the suggestion which I am making, then, I would urge upon the hon. Minister to take up these two lines which are not going to cost more. It will be only a very small amount compared to what we invest in other lines. By spending a very small amount, you will be able to extend the line from Hapa to Jamnagar and extend the line from Dhrangadhra to the other salt producing areas, for production of salt and for distribution of salt to the remotest parts of the country. This will also help the poor people in this country. This is what I wanted to say. I hope, my friend, the hon. Minister, is free from the sort of rustra-tion which he was feeling when he took over the Railway Ministry and when he made statements on the floor of the House as well as outside. I hope the other Ministries like the Finance Ministry and the Planning5 Commission will full co- operate with him. There is only one more point. It is that you should take care of the gross profit and expenditure ratio. It is going up. You are spending very much more compared to what you are earning. It was coming down, as you know. There are many circumstances for this. But I would like you to examine this also and exercise frugality in economy wherever it is possi- ble.

287 Th* Appropriation [RAJYA SABHA] No. 4 Bill, 1983 288

289 The Ajyprop^iation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 290 (Railways)

291 The Appropriation [RAJYA SABHA] No. 4 Bill, 1983 292 (Railways)

293 TKe Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 294 (Railways) passengers. The existing coach factory in our country has been fully utilised. We demand that specially in Palghat in Kerala, a coach factory should be set up; it is possible. The hon. Minister may kindly consider this. Tha Sixth Five-Year Plan stipulates a target of nearly 14,600 coaches, but still we have not been able to reach even 5,600 coaches. There is such a big gap and I do not know how it is possible to bridge this gap so far as thii Sixth Plan target is concerned.

Then there is a plan for converting steam engines into diesel engines and then diesel engines into electric engines so that in this way the running expenses of the trains will SHRI ARABINDA GHOSH (West be less. Will anything out of the savings Bengal): Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, while in these expenses go to the railway wor- speaking on the Railway Appropriation kers? Out of the 17-112 lakhs railway BiH, I want to submit that according to workers, 15 lakhs are regular and 2-1 ]2 the International Monetary Fund Iakhs are casual workers. So, these conditionality railway fares and freights savings in expenditure can be utilised for have been increased like anything in the the development of the lndian last budget and, because of this, prices Railways and also some relief have risen very high. A price rise of about should be granted to the down- 25 per cent has been registered during this trodden workers of the railways month. The price of steel is rising, the who are the backbone of the railway price of electricity is rising and railway administration—like drivers, mecha- fares and freights aie rising. Thus there is a nics, firemen, gangmen and other competition going on in this respect casual workers who work right from among the Ministry of Railways, the morning till night. Will they not have Ministry of Steel and the Ministry of Ene- their due share out of this saving in rgy. Here everything is connected with the expenditure? railways. Indian Railways is the biggest undertaking, but the common people—the Now, Sir, the question of security- commuters—are suffering like anything. comes up every time. At every railway There is no limit to their sufferings. And station we find that about security, safety who is responsible for this? It is the anti- and punctuality in the railways, so many people economic policies of the Gov- posters and pamphlets are displayed and ernment of India including the Railway Iakhs of rupees are spent on this publicity. Ministry. There, the Railway Minister also is trying to do this through his speeches and Sir, in 1970-71, the suburban passenger broadcasts through Doordarshan and so traffic was 1,190 million. In 1981-82 it on. There are seminars also. But security went up to 2,064 million. In 1970-71 the in the real sense has not been achieved. passenger kilometres were 22,984 million Dacoity was rampant in the northern and in 1981-82 it went up to 43,965 region and in the eastern region. Now it is million. In this way the rush of passenger diverted to the southern region. I have traffic is increasing but there is not even a some examples. Dacoity has increased proper coach factory in the country tb between Beivada and Renigunta It has as- meet the reauirements of the sumed daneerous nronortions. There

295 The Appropriation [ RAJYA SABHA ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 296 (Railways) [Shri Arabinda Ghosh] people have got RAC, they" get into the train, but there is no berth vacant for them, they is no safety and security of passengers. The stand. "Innumerable RACs are being issued Railway Minister in his Budget speech and from counters, but they have not got any elsewhere talks about safety of passengers. berths. Either you limit the number or extend Property worth Iakhs of rupees has been lost some chair cars to accommodate these by the passengers. There is no method to passengers who are to go to their destinations protect the passengers against dacoities which at any cost. This harassment of the passengers are increasing day by day. Every day we see in must be stopped. newspapers and elsewhere reports about dacoities. Personal experiences are also there. Another train is there, Kerala Express. It In Andhra Pradesh it has increased like runs for two days to Trivandrum, but there is anything. no system of AC 2 'tier. Similarly, in the Jayanti Janata from Delhi to Trivandrum there Talking about punctuality, even the is no provision of AC 2 tier. Tliis should b Rajdhani Express is late. Something is being e provided; otherwise, passengers will not get done, but there is not much of an effort to comforts on these trains. improve the punctuality. Lakh's' of rupees can be spent on publicity, propaganda, every Then I come to the difficulties of the thing, but I am to judge things by the workers, the loeo running staff. Last time, punctuality. The Rajdhani Express is late by there was an agreement that they should get two hours every now and then. And Delux their arrears, but they are not getting their arre- train between Howrah and Kalka, up and ars. On the other hand, the backbone of the down, is late by more than 3-4 hours. Is it Indian Railways are the loco running staff, the punctuality? About the other parts, other hon. driver, the fireman, the gangman. Many years Members know the truth better. Even the ago there was an agreement between the loca rolling stock is call-devastated back-dated. All running staff union and the railway these things are there. They should be management that there would be ten hours' renovated. But that is being done so slowly duty. But that is n°t being implemented till that now and then accidents take place and date. On the other hand, to take revenge, firemen, drivers and passengers are the hundreds of loco running staff have been victims. There is no guarantee for their safety suspended or dismissed by the Railways. It is and protection. The safety of the firemen and they who run the railways. To take revenge the mechanical staff is in danger. against them, measures of this sort are being taken against them. They are not reinstated. Then I come to industrial relations. ln the They are not being taken into confidence. long distance trains, the canteen boys, Discussions, between the Ministry and the attendants have to work from morning till trade union are being stopped I demand that night, they do not have a place to sleep. The s immediate steps should be taken to introduce Supreme Court judgement was there, that the ten hours' duty and to reinstate all the catering staff should be made regular. May T'know what steps have been taken to victimised workers and loco running staff. implement the judgement of the Supreme The railway workers" ar demanding Court to make the catering workers of the e Indian Railways regular? interim relief. Recently they held a demonstration before Parliament. Their Then, a new system. RAC (reservation demands should not be neglected; they should cancellation) has been introduced, bul be considered wherever you goj you And 297 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 298 (Railways) immediately because it is the grass-root- should be done in the greater interest of level workers who run the railways. This the commuters. should be taken into consideration by the Minister in charge. Only some simple Lastly, definitely the Indian Railways demands are there. are one of the biggest railway systems in the world. The Planning Commission The circular railway in Calcutta is not being completed. The Calcutta Harbour's should allocate more f unds for the property is a hindrance to this. This development of the Indian Railways. hindranc should be immediately removed e I may again repeat that a coach factory so that the circular railway may b e should be located in Palghat in Kerala completed in Calcutta. The metro railway and it should be constructed without project has become a menance. People further delay. We havs not enough wonder why it is not being completed. passenger coaches to meet our The Minister off and on goes to Calcutta; requirements. With these words, I he goes to Malda, he visits the metro conclude. railway project. He has gone there many times. The work should be expedited. Otherwise it is creating many difficulties, THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R. R. transport difficulties and Calcutta city is a MORARKA). Dr. Najma Hep-tulla. very congested city like any other city in our country. DR. (SHRIMATI) NAJMA HEP- TULLA (Maharashtra): Thank you very I had earlier raised th question of e much for 'calling me. I am going to Malda-Balurghat railway. Nothing has °nfine myself entirely to Bombay's been done. There i no train to North c s problems because half of the people Bengal. The survey' has not been travelling on the Indian Railways—ag Mr. completed. The survey should be P. C. Sethi mentioned on the floor of the completed and th sucheme should be e House on the 5th August last year—that implemented immediately. is, out of about one crore_ 4.4 million Then Howrah-Purulia—this has been people travel only in Bombay every repeated parrot-like in every session. The day. So when I am talking about survey can be made and it can be done Bombay, I am talking apout half thie without any heavy amount. passengers who are travelling on the Indian Railways, and all those Lastly regarding drinking water and bad commuters come from all parts Of the quality of food, Mr. Sukul has also country, which all of ua represent. spoken. This is a daily occurrence on the Congestion in the city of Bombay has Indian Railways. People are paying high" reached a totally alarming dimension and prices. People are paying high railway there can be little doubt that unless reme- fares from their pockets. The Railways dial measures are taken, and taken soon, are earning revenue from them. Rut in ex- the city will choke itself. Today the change, the people are not getting good population of Bombay stands at nearly 9 quality food and good drinking water, million and every single day about 300 specially the second class passengers are families are coming to Bombay from very much neglected. To provide these all parts of the country. It is perhaps things within a short time should be our not commonly known that the density of motto. The same replies are thereo—"it population in Greater Bombay is more will be looked into", "it is being looked than three times that °f Greater Calcutta. Againt the density of less tnan 4000 r sq- into" and so on. We dp not like to hear pe these things again and again. These km. in Delhi, the figure for Bombay is things over 20,000. Incidentally the density in London is only 7,300 and New

299 The Appropriation [ RAJYA SABHA ] • No. 4 Bill, 1983 300 (Railways) [Dr. (Shrimati) Najma Heputulla] been a priority at their meeting held on 6-3-1982. York 9,700. The basic problem is that the growth of Bombay has not been These are the few points which I have able to keep pace with the rapidly tried to highlight about these main growing and expanding population. railway projects in Bombay. The As I said, today on Bombay's trains 4.4 honourable Minister has brought a new trend in our train services. I would request million passengers travel everyday. I would like to bring to the notice of the him to pay a little more attention to what Railway Minister that the railway is happening in our city of Bombay. system has not been keeping pace with Everyday hundreds of thousands of the rise in population which is causing people travel. Another thing I would like to mention is that the Transport Policy great hardship to the people of Bombay. In 1951 the population to Bombay was Committee has specifically recommended 29.66 lakhs, an

301 The Appropriation [24 AUG. IQBB] No. 4 Bill, 1983 302 (Railways) lheir colleges or work in their labo- yet the Minister bas not beebn able to ratories? At least we shoul^ have some solve this problem, and he consideration. I would request the House ven I ot neeti able to solve it e to support me in this demand. to the extent of one per cent or hali-a-per cent and all the Minister* have cited the same figures year after year. This only shows that however much the Railways may increase their revenues their money is never utilised to overcome the problem^ which are being cited by the Ministers, by the successive Ministers, every year. The Railway Minister may go on crying that the Planning Commission is very niggardly in sanctioning money for the outlays an

The Minister was right when he uaid SHRI A. B. A. GHANI KHAN that the Raiways are in a mess and who CHAUDHURI: Then why do you pay else will pay for this except the users. all these things? The reasong for the mess are the gigantic SHRI HARI SHANKAR BHABHRA: problems which have been cited by aU It is because it is our duty though even the four successive Railway Ministers the smallest demands vou will not be able during the last three and half years. to meet and you will go on saying that There, out of 61,000 km of track 20 per cent is overaged and defective; 4,500 these are your plans, these are the plans of km track is positively dangerous; the Railways, and EO on and you will not 42,000 wagons, that is, ll per cent of accept a single demand of any Member, the total rolling stock, are unserviceable whether he belongs to the ruling party or tnd as many as 5,982 passenger coaches to the Opposition. require to be replaced. Seventy-five per SHRl A. B. A- GHANI KHAN cent of machinery and equipment in the CHAUDHURI. Thank you very much, three railway workshops at Perambur, SHRI HARI SHANKAR BHABHRA; Chittaranjan and Varanasi are beyond Thig is what you are doing. Mr. Minister, the pale of optimum utrisations. These you must remember one thing. You will are the major problems which have remember that immediately after you been cited by the Railway Ministers took ov r, yoa loudly spoke in the House and they nave repeated these e that you. would set right everything. I figures i° this very hous©, so hope many times. Much time has passed by and

303 The Appropriation [ RAJYA SABHA ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 304 (Raihoays) [Shri Hari Shanker Bhabhra] affairs now. You have to make im- you will remember what you said about the provements now. Less talk, more work— that ia what is wanted. You are giving bed rolls. Immediately after becoming the Minister, you assured the House, "I will see slogans of security, safety and that everything is set right". But things are punctuality. Adhere to your words. Better getting from bad to worse and that i the you do not say anything you cannot do. If s you maintain it, you will get funds. Funds case with supply of bed , rolls also. In one bed roll you are ' supplying and only one are there. There is corruption in the al- blanket in , December and January and one lotment of wagons. You have not been or two bedsheets and on pillow and no able to check it anywhere. Do something. e I do not think you can remove it mattress. That is all. This is the everywhere; it is not possible. But you improvement that has been brought . about. must do something to arrest corruption. You have given an assurance in this House You at least create a terror in the corrupt and I hope you remember it. You started by people who are indulging in corruption. It slashing the Railway Board. But that is not is so rampant. You do something. But what we want. We want some work to be instead of doing all these things, you go done. Simply slashing the Railway Board on talk, ing. But we will go on putting wili not work and I think this ia too much our demands whether you accept them or to be called a courageous step. If you not. So I also put some demands. I am cannot do anything etee, at least bring some not asking for a new railway line, I am relief to the passengers. What is happening simply asking you to attach an ACC in upkeeping of existing stocks and now to sleeper coach with the Jodhpur Mail, the maintenance aspect? What have you Bikaner Mail and Chetak Express. The been able to do so far as the maintenance of climate of Rajasthan is extremely hot and the railways is concerned? What is tbe point extremely cold, with dust storms. So at in talking about fresh lines or new lines or least you can provide one ACC sleeper in improvements or developmental works each of these. Rajasthan is such an area when you have not been able to maintain where this is required. For this, I hope even your coaches? You take the case of you will not be required to go to the AC First Class or the Second Class. Th« Planning Commission for attaching an switch will be on, but the fang will not ACC coach with these three trains which work. Sometimes the fans will be working. are connecting Delhi with the important But if you switch them off, they will not towns of Rajasthan. You can do it stop. Sometimes some fans will not start at without going to the Planning all. This is the case everywhere and we Commission. If you will do this, I will know thig because we are travelling almost think that you have done something. all over India and I have been complaining Otherwise it is of no use... (Time bell quite often. I have made at least not less rings) than fifty compIaints during the last two or three 7ears. But I have not received a single reply from your Department, Mr. Minister. Not a single reply I have received 90 far n from your Ministry. I have °t received a single reply to any of my compIaints, not even an acknowledgement not even . a regret letter! You are not acknowledging the letters of the Members °* Parliament! Thig is the state of

305 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] JVo. 4 Bill, 1983 306 (Railways)

SHRIMATI KRISHNA KAUL (Uttar Pradesh): Madam, Vice-Chairman, with your permission I rise to speak on and to support the Railway Appropriation Bill as moved hy the Hon'ble Minister of Railways Shri A. R. A Ghani Khan Chaudhuri. In a vast developing country like Indi;? with a geographical area of 3.37 million square kilometres, and a population of 685 million people, Railways are the lifeline of the nation. With

307 The Appropriation [ RAJYA SABHA ] Na, 4 Bill, 1983 308 (Railways) [Shrimati Krishna Kaul] on the roof tops, the poor roof travellers the technological advancement, the Indian are perhaps forced, by sheer compulsion Railways have contributed tremendously of circumstances, to use the opening of to usher in an era of industrial growth, the water tanks for this purpose. One is accelerated the pace of national simply appalled at the plight of the development, enlarged social passengers inside the coaches who have opportunities and built up the backbone of to use this water. national economy. With a route To. stop roof travelling, it is imperative kilometrage of 61,230 km. they are the to (1) increase the number of coaches Asia's largest and the fourth largest on trunk lines, (2) to deploy effective railway system in the world. Indian checks and force at boarding points to Railways are owned and managed by the prevent roof climbing and (3) t0 Central Government. increase the frequency of shuttles and to add more coaches to them. In To enumerate some of the laudable some shuttles like the ones running achievements of the Indian Railways, between Allahabad and Faizabad or they have added over 6,000 kms. of new between Kanpur and Lucknow, only 5 or lines since the beginning of Five Year 6 bogies are attached. This number can Plan, Over 8,000 kms. of buBy lies have be increased to 10 bogies which is their been made double-tracked, and have normal capacity. Lastly, to keep pace with constructed numerous new crossing the heavy increase in passenger traffic, it stations and improved signalling. is necessary to start yet more trains on such busy routes. According to the latest statistics available the number of passengers In some trains, the number of bogies boarding trains, which was 128.40 has been increased from 18 to 22. But, crores in 1950-51, has now gone up to unfortunately, the length of the platform 361.20 crores, the traffic load has in- remains the same with the result that creased to 22 crore tonnes as against 9.30 bogies at the fore and at the rear of the crore tonnes in 1951. But there still train halt beyond the platform as is the remains an urgent need of further inrease case in Kanpur. It causes great in the number of coaches, almost in all inconvenience to the passengers and is trains on important traffic routes, and very risky too. So, may I submit to the on important Branch lines. Rooftop hon. Minister for Railway that while travelling has become a common feature adding bogies to trains, care may be taken of Indian Railways. It is a very depressing to increase the length of the platform to sight on the one hand, and a highly risky serve the entire train. Some time back, 0ur affair on the other. Hundreds of lives of hon. Minister for Railwaya went round these poor roof squatters are lost annually quietly in real Haroon Rashid style in the and niost of them are bona fide ticket- lower classes of the train to have first- holders R is a matter of shame for the hand knowledge of the conditions Indian Railways and through its aegies for prevailing therein. the entire nation. People who come from outside and occupy AC First Class Lack of sPare bogies is another major Compartments which compare favourably cause of inconvenience to travellers. w'th any railway coach in the developed Bogies get damaged and are cancelled at countries are amazed witnesses t0 this the last moment without any provision sorry state of Indian Railwavs, vis a via its for immediate replacement. So, serious poor Indian passengers. attention has to be paid to this recurring malady of sick coaches. Modern India is Mr Minister, may also mention yet getting speedminded. The narrow-gauge another dimension of this roof travelling? or the metre-gauge cannot meet the Since there is no toilet facility requirement of high speed, and

309 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 310 (Railways) so consume a lot of time in their cdurse. allotment and the movement of th« About 50 per cent of inherited railway wagons need to be properly monitored. track which was narrow or metre-gauge More attention is required to be paid to has now been converted into broad-gauge the case of small businessmen who off to meet the demand of increasing and on require a few wagon» only for passenger and goods traffic. Conversion movement of consumer goods as they are of more than IOOO Kms. into almost invariably harassed in getting broadgauge has already been completed. wagon allotment. But certain important routes have to be taken up on priority basis. East Uttar Pradesh continues to be linked by metre- Coming to planning, the main objective gauge. As a result of this, the area has not of planning on the Indian Railways- in the been able to keep pace with the past independence ha» been to bid good- eye to the concept of managing Railways developmental programmes and con- to subserve colonial interests and instead tinues to remain a backward area. In- to so develop the rail transport infrastruc- dustrial activities are moving almost at a ture as to keep pace with and to provide snail's pace and entcrpreneurs Ught shy approapriate support for the planned Of launching new industrial ventures in growth of economy as a whole. The this area, significantly due to inadequate emphasig in this regard has been to some and slow passenger and goods facilities. extent suitably readjusted during each of the Five-Year Plan periods in th past, Mr. Minister broad gauge ia a long- e standing demand of the people of this taking note of certain special factors and area. Gorakhpur, of course, has now been features. In the First Five-Year Plan, the linked to Lucknow by broadgauge but the emphasis was on rehabilitation and rest of the East U.P. 3ike Azamgarh, replacement of the assets. During the Balia, Gazipur, Deoria continue to be on Second Five Year Plan, the accent was on metre-gauge. I would request the hon. development of rail transport capacity to Minister for Railways Io take up their meet the requirement of movement of raw conversion to broadgauge on a top material to and from the steel plants in priority basis. green field sites coming up in the public sector and also to move the increased pro- The growth of Railways i& a country is duction of coal from Bengal-Bmar belt to linked closely with economic, the various consuming centres all over the agricultural and industrial development, country. In the Third Plan, the strategy and this network connects mines, coal adopted was to take the rail transport fields, oil zones, industrial plants, power capacity ahead Of the anticipated plants and ports, ceaselessly moving men demands. This was sought to be achieved and material to far-flung destinations in principally through modernisation of the service of the nation. traction, by switching over from steam to There were about 28,000 passenger diesel and electric power in a progressive carriages and 401 lakh wagons in 1981- manntr This had to be matched by 82 as against just. 13,000 carriageg and corresponding development in rolling 2.05 lakh wagOns thirty-five years ago. stock manufacture and substantial The increase in the number of carriages imorovenments and changes ln track and wagons is appreciable but it is not at techniolo?y and sigrialHg methods and all sufficient since cartage of major bulk equipment. The Fourth Five-Year Plan commodities mentioned just now l'ke had the obiectlves of continuing the coal, petroleum products, s+eel-ores, modernisation and improving the cement, fertilizers and foodgrains has operational effie'enet. The Fifth Five- ever-increasing demands for wagons. For Year P'an was drawn uo with-focus on— instance, the Kanpur power house is development of rapid transit svs-tem to always on tenterhooks waiting for the meet the nhenomenal growth in urban timely arrival of coal wagons. The population of cities due to

311 lht Appropriation [ RAJYA SABHA ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 312 Railways) [Shrimati Krishna Kaul] growth of railway equipment and management industry and commerce; improvement in development and successfully handli-ing financial viability, through cost reduction increased movement of bulk commodities techniques, resource mobilisation and through three decades of national economic optimum utilisation of assets; and planning. achievement of national self-sufficiency in railway equipments. It is said that the Indian Railways have consistently been denied enough funds. The A new record of lifting freight traffic of mid-term review of the Sixth Plan indicated 239 million tonnes in 1976-77 was achieved. that an additional outlay of at least Rs. 1,920 In the Sixth Five-Year Plan, it ig said that • crores would be needed to maintain even the since enough funds were not allotted to reduced physical targets envisaged in the Depreciation Beserve Fund in earlier years, Plan. the replacement and renewals fell into arrears. Therefore, increased emphasis on But it is also a fact that the rate of (return rehabilitation has been laid in this Plan. In for the massive investment in Indian Bailways this context. I wouid again request the hon. is rather . low and fully justifies the charge Minister to include the conversion of metre that Jndian Railways are a white elephant. gauge into broad gauge in the east U.P. sector This low rate of return is bound to jeopardise of the north-eastern railway a$ it is development planning because an important imperative for reducing the industrial source of finance for planning is the surplus of : developmental imbalances and backwardness public sector undertakings like Railways. Th s of this area. paucity of internal resource has actually been Now coming to the question of public a big impediment in the way of proper convenience, I would like to highlight some development of Indian Railways. Between problems of passengers at the railway 1951 and 1981 there has been only 14 per cent platforms. Firstly there is lack of sufficient increase in route kilometres and 18 per cent light, shelter covers and sanitary conditions increase in numper of stations, while freight On the platforms specially in big cities like traffic has increased around fourfold and Kanpur, Lucknow, Delhi and Allahabad etc. etc. passenger traffic, more than three fold. There is not enough room for passengers to move on the platforms. Tiiere are stalls On the top of it the Bailway Reforms there are vendors with thelas and then Committee has stressed that this intensive use there are piles and piles of big parcels lying on of existing capacity has not been accompanied the platform, leaving little space for the by adequate provision for depreciation. As a movement of passengers. This needs immediate result, out of the total stock of 75,860 kms. of attention. Catering service in the North Eastern track, 38,327 coaches and 4 lakh wagons, 1.40,000 kms. of track, eight thousand railway is deplorable. Cold, stale food is served. Southern railways are a little better in this coaches and 65,000 wagons were due for respect. I would request the hon. Minister for immediate replacement. The Sixth Plan for the Railways to pay personal attention to thig point. railways is actually a mere rehabilitation and Some caterers have made the railways their consolidation plan, and more than 50 per cent monopoly and it is said since they cannot be of the outlay of Rs. 5,100 crore3 for railways ousted they feel they need not bother about the is eaten away by mere replacement of quality of catering. Then there is the regular overaged assets. feature of the coolies harassing the passengers. It thus, seems imperative that if there has to The Railway Ministry deserves all be the development of railway's in India in a appreciation for achieving nearly cent per big way, the generation of sufficient internal cent self-sufficiency in respect of re-. sources by the Indian Railways is a 313 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 1 No. 4 Bill, 1983 314 (Raiiumys) basic pre-requisite. An earnest effort is, therefore, plete the work from Karur to Dindigul for immediately called Ior to reduce working which we have sanctioned Rs. 75 crores, expenses in Indian railways, plug the leakages of just two years before. But we have raised this revenue and if need be mobilise private sources) question year after year and they hav? still not started, even after setting up only an offic I like floating of debentures etc. to meet the e where only half a dozen people ar taking rest, financial shortfalls. e withput even concentrating or knowing as With these words, Madam, I support ^ the to when they are going tp itake up this BUI, Thank you. work. Even last year, when I asked as to SHRI R. MOHANARANGAM (Tami] Nadu): when they want to take it up, they said, they Madam Vice-Chairman, I am really very glad have got the sanction of one crore of rupees that I have been given an opportunity to speak on for this work. Even then, Madam, I would like this Railway Appropriation Bill and that too to inform our hon. Minister of Railways that when our hon. Minister for Railway is present necessary steps have not been taken so far here and also the Union Minister of State—on_ to start this very important work for which Rs. 75 c*01^ sanctioned. And if they go he has gone away—was here. I am not going to take more time today for the simple reason on like this, I feel that it will take at least 10 that I have raised the same pointg for the past years to complete this work and for which half a decade, which I am going to raise now. they will be expected to spend not just Rs. These are the points that I have raised on the 75 crores as they have stated, but more than Rs. 150 crores which they will have to shell floor of the Lok Sabha as well as on the floor of the Rajya Sabha. i am rather compelled to out from our pockets. 'Our pockets* I mean raise certain pointg when our hon. Minister the Government of India's funds. for Railways is present here. It is a very I big Coming from Madras city, which is one of public enterprise consisting of 13 lakh the important cities in the country, and I think employees: 15 lakh employees working nobody can dispute if I gay that Madras city is permanently on the Railway? and two and a half one of the very important cities; not only that, lakhs are working temporarily for the past so | the population of Madras city has been many years, awaiting their permanency. increasing. It was 20 lakhs at the time when I But it is not my intention to draw the attention of was studing in the college and it increased to anybody with regard to the development of 48 lakhs in the year 1982 and now it is more our Railways in the whole country, because than 50 lakhs. Railway convenience is most of the Members have confined themselves available only for 10 lakh peoplt. We have to their own territory, or to their own travelled by electri c trains and Mr. Minister, constituency, if not their own particular village from Tambaram to Saidapet, you yourself or their own municipal town As a person stated that you have never seen such a coming from the deep southern part of the situation and you will never travel in these country, I have to raise certain very important trains and you wished that you could take up points. the entire responsibility of rectifying the defects in the railways. Nearly six months or First of all. I want to say with regard to the' more than 9 monthg have passed and I do not railway line between Karur and Dindigul. know where exactly the matter stands. - There is a saying: where there is a will, there is a I would also refer to the rapid transit railway; where there is no will, there | is survey. system for which we have sanctioned Rs. 70 But, of course, there wax f will just two years crores. Work in Calcutta has been taken up before and that will there is, on the part of the because the Minis ter comes from that area; Rail- ] way Minister that he wants to com- • so mam 315 The AsprojSTtetten [RAJYA SABHA] No. 4 Fl';, 1983 316 (Railways) [Shri R. Mohanarangam.] said that wherever we start, it will be in India. He said, wherever we expand, it works are going on in Karnataka because will be only in our country. But when I the State Minister comes from that State. said that the Integral Coach Factory But from Madras, no Minister is there should be expanded. £ received a letter because the State is ruled by a different stating- as follows 'In this connection, I party and the Congress was not able to get would like to inform you that the need for more votes in that southern part of the coaches by the Indian Railways is country. I feel, that rapid transit system extremely large and cannot be met by must be completed immediately. The expanding the Integral Coach Factory at work is very important Until and unless its existing location.' When I asked why you take it up, more than 35 Iakhs of the Hindustan Photo Films Factory has- people in Madras will be affected and aD been shifted from Ootacamund to they will not be le to go from one place Nainital, they said, India is one, we can to the other. I am saying it on the floor of take it anywhere and they said, Nainital is the House not to see that my name suitable. But when the Integral Coach appears in the press Of just for the sake of Factory ia already existing at Perambur, speaking, I am saying it. I am speaking and when I ask why it should not be from the bottom of my heart. I myself expanded, he says, because the need is suffered because of this difficulty anjj I more, we want more coaches, we are not want to point out that unless and until you in a position to meet the demand and that take drastic steps to start thig work, is why, you say you will set up such people jn Madras will suffer after 10 years factories in different places. I agree. We and even if you would want to take it up a can start hundreds of coach factories in after 10 years, yoa wi'l not be ble to do it different parts of the country: In the case because the population will be more than of ICF, you have increased the capacity 80 lakhs. from ^50 to 850 coaches, nearly hundred coaches, I appreciate the step which has With regard to Integral Coach Factory, been taken. But I would like to say that I appreciate but I asked the concerned if you introduce a third shift—we have Minister as to why the Hindustan Photo only two shifts now—not only you can Factory was shifted from Ootacamund to increase the number of coaches produced Nainital, they said that one part of it in this factory, so that you will be in a cannot remain in one particular State position to meet the demand of the whole while the other is in a different place, country, which is what you said as one of and that we have to see to the expansion the reasons, but you will also be able to of industry in the whole country. Sir, provide employment to 3,000 more from Kanya Kumari to Kashmir, India is persons in Madras. In regard to these one country. From the lofty peaks of the additional hands which you will be Himalayas to the sacred shares of recruiting, it is not necessary that you Kanyakumari, India is one. We are all should take them only from Madras, from citizens of one country. I do agree. I am Tamil Nadu. You can take people from very much porud to say that I am one of all over tho country, giving 50 per cent the citizens of this oountry Even though I share to my place. come from Tamil Nadu, I am proud that I belong to India. T am proud that I am one »f the citizens of this country. But Somebody has just now pointed out Madam, when I say that the Integral about the introduction of AC coaches. Coach Factory should be expanded, he You can introduce AC coaches, but not theory given out is quite different !rom in the night trains Of course, you say that the one which has been given by he in the night temperature will be regulated. Industry Minister. Mr. Tiwari Madam, there is the Vaigai Express which runs between

317 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 Bill, 198S 318 (Railways) Madras and Madurai. It is a distance of 300 gers can see the scenic beauty of this miles. The train starts from Madurai in the Queen among the hill stations. morning, reaches Madras in the afternoon, starts immediately from Madras and reaches There is one more point. You are the Madurai in the night. But there is no AC Minister of Indian Railways. You are coach in this. I would say, flrst of all, you spending thousands and thousands of crores should introduce AC coachea only in the of rupee, through ypur railway ystem, for trains which run | during day time. I would the development ot the country, by laying request the hon. Minister to introduce AC new lines and so on. But you should have coaches in the Vaigai Express. clear preferences, where we have to spend more money, which is a backward area Some hon. Member has pointed out and so on. Backward areas are not the about the speeding up of trains. But I areas from where the Ministers come, personally feel that unless and until you backward areas are not areas from take adequate safety measures, there js where the ruling party Members come no use in speeding up trains. and backward areas are not areas from where persons who can bring poutical pressure to bear upon the authorities come. Madam, sometimes, you also come to We haye to see the maximum benefit for Madras. As you know, the Tamil Nadu the maximum number of people. If you Express starts from Madras at 7 AM. We introduce a new railway system for Madras have to get up from bed at 4.30 or 5 AM. city, 50,000 people will be benefited. If you introduce a new railway system It is not so easy. Not only that. There are so many connecting trains from somewhere in Karnataka, where our Bangalore and other places which reach Madam Vice-Chairman is coming from— by about 7.30 AM or so. Therefore, for example, I am tel'ing for the information instead of at 7 AM, it should start at 8 of the Railway Minister—only a handful of persons will be benefited. Therefore, AM so that more and more passengers can come by the Tamil Nadu Express to you have to see how much benefit we can Delhi. get by spending so much amount. The amount belongs to the poor people. It has to be spenffor the poor people. It has to be Madam, there is only one track to spent in such a way that a large section of Arakkonam" as well as to Gummidi-poondi. the people benefited from that. It is no use In the same track, the new trains which have put- ting all the weight on poor been introduced will have to go now. I passengers by increasing the passenger would suggest that you should have one fares or season ticket fares, it is no good. more track so that the number of trains can So, I would request you to sit together, call be j increased. You should also completely the opposition leaders and have a take out the old coaches and introduce new discussion with them. You can call the coaches. IAs or the railway officers also because they will be able to teach us where exactly Then, Madam, the Nilgiris Hill Rail- we have to go. So, let us sit together and way is one of the oldest and one of the gee where we have to spend so that the beautiful; in the whole world, I would maximum percentage of people could be say. Once I had been to Nilgiris. I found benefited. that the engines are old which have been introduced in the Tyder Ali era and these On these lines I had given some points engines are not in a position to" pick up last year. In the last session also I gave more than three or four carriages. You the same points. In the Janata rule T was should introduce new engines and new a Member of Lok Sabha Then also I gave coaches—I have made this demand the same pointg.. Even after five years I several times—so that more and more may passen- 319 The Appropriation [RAJYA SABHA] No. 4 Bill, 1983 320 {Railways) [Shri R. Mohanarangam.] be making the same points. So, I request the hon. Minister to look into these points very urgently and speed up to work so that I may not have to speak about the same thing next time.

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SHRl SHRIDHAR WASUDEO DHABE (Maharashtra,): Central Gov- ernment agreed for Punjab Bandh.

Whether the Central Government agreed or not, it is my opinion as a Member of Parliament—and I feel— that we should not make the railways an instrument for our political motives

When your turn cornes, you can speak. Don't interrupt the speaker, please.

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337 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 BiH, 1983 338 (P ailways) crores of rupees. Kindly sanction Rs. 1-112 crores so that at least the problem in Marathwada could be solved. Today, the Government is thinking of spending a lot of money on many projects. But, on important things, the Railway Ministry is curtailing the facilities. On 1-11-81, the Railway Ministry passed an order withdrawing the railway concession to the journalists on the recommendation of the Railway Convention Committee. The amount involved is only five or six lakhs of rupees per year. The correspondents were given a concession of 50 per cent, especially the small newspaper correspondents. This may not be important to those who are big newspapers. But, so far as the small newspapers are concerned, this is an important facility and I do not know what the reason is for withdrawing this railway concession to the correspondents. Many categories are given the concession. Similar is the case with our sportsmen also. For sports tournaments also, such concessions are with- drawn. Only for national tournaments the concessions are given. After the Asiad, we were talking of giving encouragement to sports and all that. But now these concessions are not available for the rural level, district level or even State level tournaments. This is the position now. And the reason given by the Railway administration is over-crowding. What is over-crowding? How many players go? The Minister may not be aware but I SHRI SHRIDHAR WASUDEO DHABE: know that 40 per cent of tournaments have Madam Vice-Chairman, in the morning the been reduced because railway concessions are Minister of Railways had stated that because not available at lower level. I suggest that the of the financial constraints and because the Minister must seriously consider this. I am Planning Commission has not sanctioned the glad—I read in the newspapers—that he is required amount, he could not take up the pro- restoring the concessions for scouts. In sports gramme of conversion of MG into BG. they have got an important place. Therefore, for journalists and sportsmen, I request him to SHRI A. B. A. GHANI KHAN CHAU- restore the concessions and be more liberal in DHURI: Madam, what I have stated is this: developing sports. The Planning Commission has given a certain priority and we are working on that priority.

SHRI SHRIDHAR WASUDEO DHABE: Two more things I will only like to suggest. Madam, I was also mentioning the same Today in reply to my Unstarred Question No. thing. We are going to have the Seventh 3100 about Nagpur-Dadar Express, the Planafter two years and, therefore 1 would Minister has stated that he is considering a request the Minister to see that the priority suggestion "to bring it via Bhusaval and Itarsi. changes so that the conversion of the MG into This is an impractical proposition. This is the BG gets a higher priority and not a lower only train in Ma- priority. Also, I would like to repeat what I said in the morning. It is only a question of three

339 The Appropriation [ RAJYA SABHA ] No. 4. Bill, 1983 340 (Railways) [Shri Shridhar Wasudeo Dhabe] ever. {Time Bell rings.) I would request the harashtra which connects Bombay with Minister to increase pasenger amenities, and second sapital, Nagpur. It starts in the not decrease them. afternoon from Bombay and in the morn ing it reaches there, so that the people can THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRIMATI do business during the day and in the MARGARET ALVA): Mr. Vithalrao Ma- night they come back. If you bring it via dhavrao ladhav. Only five minutes. Itarsi, it wil reach Nagpur at 20'clock and the problem will not be solved. There are SHRl VITHALRAO MADHAVRAO at least six trains which connect Nagpur JADHAV (Maharashtra): I will strictly with Itarsi—right from passenger trains to observe the time. express trains, Tamil Nadu Express and others. On the other hand, you should ex Madam Vice-Chairman, I rise to support tend the Nagpur-Dadar Express, which is this Bill. Today morning only we had a lot of popularly known as Vidarbha Express. discussion about the railway line in my area, There is a suggestion even by the Cham which goes from Manmad to Mudkhed. So I ber of Commerce from Madhya Pradesh shall not speak more about that. However, I that the Vidarbha Express, like the Chha- would like to congratulate the hon. Railway tisgarh one, may be extended to Delhi. Minister who has made the Railway But to bring the Bombay-Nagpur train via administration quite well. He has also given Bhusaval and Itarsi will be depriving more bogeys on various routes, for example, the Vidarbha people of their right to travel to the Rajdhani Express, G.T. Express and Nagpur where they go every day. Therefore, others. if at all you want to make any change, you may extend the Vidarbha Express to Delhi Apart from that, I will just point out the just like the Chhatisgarh Express. important projects of Maharashtra which are lying with the Central Government. Some of Another important one is the Maharashtra them are in operation and some of them, Express. It is ridiculous to call it Maharashtra having started, are not in operation at all. Express with 27 hours' journey. In your reply today to an Unstarred Question No. 3099 you First, there is the West Coast (Konkan) said that it is not possible for you to reduce railway project. A preliminary engineering- the stoppages of 25 to 40 minutes at stations. cum-traffic survey in respect of the proposed If that is so, at least don't call it Maharashtra Apta-Mangalor Railway line was completed Express so that the fair name of the State is in 1972. saved. I, therefore, request you kindly to seriously consider the problems of these people, which is very important from our This railway line consists of the point of view. following main sections: (i) Apta-Dasgaon (107 kms.), (ii) Dasgaon-Ratnagiri (190 kms.), (iii) Ratnagiri-Mangalore (614 Two other things I will like to say about kms.). The Ministry of Railway has ac the canteen facilities and bed rolls. Canteen corded sanction to the construction of facility is not available in the train going from Apta-Roha Section 62 kmss. of the Apta- Ahmedabad to Howrah via Nagpur which Dasgaon Section at an estimated cost of takes about 40 hours. Similarly in Rs. 11.18 crores—anticipated cost Rs. Maharashtra Express. I will request the 20.35 crores. The work upto Pen of this Minister to introduce canteen facilities there. section has since been completed and the work from Pen to Roha is in progress. Ex Lastly the charges for bed rolls have been i penditure incurred up to 31st March, 1982 increased from Rs. 4 to Rs. 5. Even the is Rs. 11.25 crores. a foreigners laugh at this. The charges have been increased but no mattress is provided— for no reason whatso- The Government of Maharashtra has agreed to acquire and make available free of cost to the Railway authorities land required for the Konkan Railway. The

341 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] JVo. 4 Bill, 1983 342 {Railwavs) land measuring about 452 hectares is re- , quired without which there will be enormous by the Railway authorities for construction of bottlenecks in the transport of cement. During Apta-Roha railway line of Konkan Railway and the current year, an amount of Rs. 2 crores the same has since been acquired by the (originally it was Rs. 1 crore only) has been Acquiring Body and handed over to Railway provided for the projects. With a view to authorities. The State Government has incurred accelerating the progress of work and to see an expenditure of Rs. 72.55 lakhs up to now for that it is completed in 1983-84, it is necessary making payment to the landowners. that during the next year, substantial provision is made un this account. ln July 1980, the then Chief Minister had Then, there is the Manmad-Mudkhed written to the Union Minister for Railways for (Broad Gauge Conversion Project Manmad- extension of the Apta-Roha line up to Aurangabad-Parbhani-Parli-Vaijanath.) The Mangalore. The Railway Minister informed State Government had recommended to the that while the entire construction from Apta to Ministry of Railways to broadgauge the Mangalore eould not be taken up at one time, Manmad-Mudkhed Railway line. However, the Ministry had submitted the proposal to the Ministry of Railways have sanctioned the extend the line by 45 kms. from Roha to conversion of the Manmad-Parbhani-Parli, Dasgaon to the Planning Commission. The Vaijanath< Madam, formerly it was a project matter was taken up with the Minister of Plan- up to Mudkhed. Due to certain unwanted ning and Deputy Chairman, Planning influence, this project was sanctioned only Commission, requesting or clearance from the upto Parli-Vaijanath. Now, the Railway Planning Commission of the entire work of Minister has taken up that project. The survey Konkan Railway Project. The Railway of that project is being done from Parbhani up Minister informed in September, 1981 that the to Mud-khed. Only today we had a lot of dis- work of the line for Apta-Roha is in progress cussion. I again request the Railway Minister and further extension beyond Roha will be to make provision for more funds for this. undertaken in phases subject to availability of Regarding some important railway lines, I funds and clearance by Planning Commission. will make only five points and then I will However, the clearance from the Planning finish. Commission is awaited. I request the hon. Minister to make available the funds for this. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA): That will take five The second thing is that there are some minutes. You write to them about these other railway lines like the Manikgarh- projects. Chandur Railway line which are very im- portant in view of the deposit of limestone SHRI VITHALRAO MADHAVRAO located in the Chanka-Bhimkund area of the JADHAV: Only one minute more. I had made Yavatmal District, cement plants were a reference in my speech on the Railway considered feasible if a railway line is Budget about the railway Iine which was constructed between Manik-garh and originally Ramgundam-Niza-mabad line. So, I Chandur (25 kms.). The Railway Ministry has request the hon. Minister io make a survey of sanctioned the railway line between "that line Ram-gundam-Nizamabad which Manikgarh and Chandur in 1979-80 and the goes via Nizamabad. It is a sanctioned work is progressing fast. Though it was project. It should go from Bodhan, Degloor, expected that the railway line would be Mukhed, Kan-dhar, Gangakhed and Purli. The completed by December, 1982> it now seems second is Ahmednagar-Bhir-Purli-Nanded to be inevitable that there will be spill-over in line. I would like to tell the hon. Railway the year 1983-84. One of the plants to be set Minister about what I saw in Japan on my up by Messrs. Larson and Toubro Ltd. is ex- visit there as a member of the Parliamentary pected to reach operational stage by the flrst Delegation. The fastest train is the Bullet quarter of 1983, by which time the railway train. So, likewise, science and technology line has to become operational should be introduced in the Railways on a large scale like electronic

343 The Appropiiation [RAJYA SABHA] No. 4 BiH, 1983 344 (Railwavs) [Shri Shridhar Wasudeo Dhabe] modern amenities and equipments at Gauhati systems in signalling and telecommunica- and that plan has been now suspended and the tions. The second point is... money has been diverted to Malda Railway junction. Number two misappropriation is that THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRIMATI a signal training school which was sanctioned MARGARET ALVA): You have finished all at Pandu has also been transferred to Malda. the points. Number three misappropriation is that the ex- pansion programme which was approved for SHRI VITHALRAO MADHAVRAO the workshop at Bongaigaon with facilities for JADHAV:.. .the Ellora Express has periodical overhaul of BG coaches has now been dieselised and I congratulate the been curtailed and the money saved has been . hon. Minister, ty has become more transferred to Malda. This has created a lot of convenient te the people of our area. inconvenience to the Tinsukia Mail and the 1 would suggest that one fast local train Kamroop express because the overhauling has should be there from Mudkhed to Auran to be done at a very long distance. Number gabad in the morning hours so four is that a proposal for the Divisional that the people of Mudkhedi will Headquarters at Rangia was sanctioned and feel convenient to reach the High the finances allotted. But this amount of Court Bench at Aurangabad. Secondly, money has also been diverted for the [ invite your attention to the fact construction of a new Divisional Headquarters ihat most of the stations on the metregauge at Malda. I would like the hon. Minister to line do not have covers, drinking water and confirm or deny this information which I have latrines. (Time bell rings) Ajanta-Ellora received. Express running from Kacheguda to Manmad should be attached with ACC sleeper coaches. Then, Madam, there is another serious And a train has been suggested from thing. The Railway Minister has assured that Kacheguda to Delhi. That is, the Kacheguda- the broad-gauge construction between New Bongaigaon and Gauhati will be completed Ajmer Express shouid be extended to Delhi so very shortly. But, as I came to know recently, that it will be more convenient to the people. Rs. 40 lakhs sanctioned for this project has There should be VIP rooms at Nizamabad, Nanded, Parbhani and Aurangabad. again been transferred to Malda. So, all these are serious things. And some officers might With these suggestions I conclude my have done it but it would bring defame to the Railway Minister . speech, and I am again thankful to you, Madam for giving me an opportunity to speak. Then, Madam, there are a few other points which I want to bring to the notice of the Railway Minister. Today morning, he gave an SHRI AJIT KUMAR SHARMA (Assam): answer in reply to a question of mine Madam Vice-Chairman, first of all, 1 admire regarding the break-in-service of as many as the hon. Railway Minister for the bold 7,000 Assamese employees in the NF initiative that he has taken to improve the Railway. The Munsif Court, the Additional running of the railways and the Railway District Judge Court and the High Court there administration. But, at the same time, I sound asked the NF Railways not to enforce their a note of warning to the hon. Minister on break-in-service order. Yet, the Railway certain things which I want to briefly mention Administration has not abided by the Court's regarding the NF Railway when we are order. Now, they are waiting for the Supreme discussing the Appropriation Bill. At the Court's verdict. The Supreme Court are has lower levels, as far as my knowledge goes, not stayed the order of the High Court: certain things have been done which amount Therefore, it is wrong and illegal as such on to misappropriation of funds as diversion of the part of the NF Railway to impose the funds to several other areas has taken place. break-in-service over all these 7,000 Number one misappropriation is that there employees. was a plan for the construction of a big building with

345 The Appropriation [ 24 AUG. 1983 ] No. 4 Bill, 1983 346 (Railways) the Vice-Chairman, (Shri R. Ramakris- Lastly, Sir, it was suggested earlier and the hnan), in tbe Chair. hon. Railway Minister had also agreed to Then, Sir, there are many complaints from the convene a meeting of the Consultative local candidates of all these North Eastern Committee for the NF Railway within two States and Union Territories of Assam, months and the suggestion was that the Meghalaya, Arunachal Pradesh, Mizoram, meeting should be held at Malegaon so that Manipur, and Tripura about the appointments. the Members of Parliament could see the operation themselves and also see the The NF Railway is dominat-ed even today by difficulties in that particular system of about 70 per cent of employees from railways. I would request him to convene ihat Bangladesh. Now, the local people, because of meeting as early as possible so that we can the serserved classes like the Scheduled discuss the whole matter and suggest Castes, the Scheduled Tribes and religious improvements to the Railway Minister. Thank minorities, are not getting any chance of you. employment in ihe NF railway. I want to bring this matter to the notice of the hon. Railway THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R. Minister so that this position may be changed RAMAKRISHNAN): Now, I would like to and special steps are taken so that the local ascrtain the wishes of the House. There are people get employment in their own railway. several more speakers on the subject and we have already run out of the allotted time. The Sir, the Raiway Minister, in answer to one time allotted for the Railway Appropriation of my questions previously, stated that the Bill was three hours and those three hours are Tinsukhia mail is mainly for providing already over and still we have got a number facilites to the people in the North-Eastern of speakers from both sides of the House. region. But what do we find in the running of it? In actual practice, we find thai ihe interests SHRI SHRIDHAR WASUDEO DHABE of the north-eastern region come last. In that (Maharashtra): Our time is not over. connection. I would request the hon. Minister to take immediate steps to remove this anomaly.

Now, a very important long-standing point THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R. is regarding the eviction of unauthorised RAMAKRISHNAN): That is why I want to occupants from the railway lines. The see the particular view of the House and the Railway Ministry suspended this policy for Half-an-Hour discussion, whether Mr. some time last year. I dp not know why they Ibrahim will consent to taking it up some have not resumed it although it is their policy other time. to evict unauthorised occupants in the case of NF railway, but they have not done it yet. I SHRI LADLI MOHAN NIGAM (Madhya would like to know from the Railway Pradesh): After half-an-hour you can take it Minister when this eviction process will be up. resumed. (Time bell rings). Sir, I have only THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI R. one or two more points. RAMAKRISHNAN): There is also the During the last session of Parliament the item Flood Situation and some more Mem Railway Minister was kind enough to inform bers are wanting to speak and then the that certain projects, projects of two bridges clarifications and the hon. Minister of over the Brahmaputra and one railway line State for Irrigation has to reply. So the from Jogagopa to Gauhati and another from time is short. (Interruptions) Gauhati to Dibragarh, have been approved. I have to request him to kindly implement these projects so that we achieve the benefit of All right, we will take up half-an-hour these bridges and railway line very soon. discussion. After half-an-hour discussion we (Time Bell) will take up your discussion Mr. Railway Minister and finish it quickly. In the meantime you can take some coffee and come back. Yes, Mr. Ibrahim.