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DÁIL ÉIREANN AN COMHCHOISTE UM GHNÓTHAÍ AN AONTAIS EORPAIGH JOINT COMMITTEE ON EUROPEAN UNION AFFAIRS Dé Céadaoin, 14 Feabhra 2018 Wednesday, 14 February 2018 Tháinig an Comhchoiste le chéile ag 2 p.m. The Joint Committee met at 2 p.m. Comhaltaí a bhí i láthair / Members present: Teachtaí Dála / Deputies Seanadóirí / Senators Colm Brophy, Paul Coghlan, David Cullinane, Gerard P. Craughwell, Bernard J. Durkan, Terry Leyden, Seán Haughey, Neale Richmond. Mattie McGrath. I láthair / In attendance: Senators John Dolan, Billy Lawless and Niall Ó Donnghaile. Teachta / Deputy Michael Healy-Rae sa Chathaoir / in the Chair. 1 JEUA Engagement with MEPs Chairman: Senator Neale Richmond has let us know that he will be a little late. A number of MEPs, including Brian Crowley, Brian Hayes, Seán Kelly and Nessa Childers, were not able to make it here today and we have been asked to note their apologies. I met with Brian Hayes in person a few days ago and he explained to me what he is doing today. He made it clear that he wanted to be here, but he cannot, nor can the others. Due to Murphy’s law, at approximately 3.10 p.m., I will have to vacate the Chair to go to the Dáil as we have been selected for a Topi- cal Issue debate. I remind members, witnesses and people in the Visitors Gallery to ensure their mobile phones are switched off. I welcome Ms Mairead McGuinness, MEP, Ms Deirdre Clune, MEP, Ms Liadh Ní Riada, MEP, and Mr. Matt Carthy, MEP, and I thank them for taking the time to engage with the committee today. We hope to complete this session in one hour so with the agreement of the witnesses, owing to Ms McGuinness’s role as first vice president, of which we are immensely proud, I propose to allow her to make a five-minute opening statement first, following which each of the other MEPs will have an opportunity to make a five-minute opening statement. We will then have a questions and answers session. Is that agreed? Agreed. Today we are discussing the Brexit negotiations, the future of Europe, the future composi- tion of the European Parliament following Brexit and any other issues which the MEPs and members would like to discuss. Before we commence, I must advise the witnesses that by virtue of section 17(2)(l) of the Defamation Act 2009, they are protected by absolute privilege in respect of their evidence to the joint committee. However, if they are directed by the commit- tee to cease giving evidence on a particular matter and they continue to so do, they are entitled thereafter only to a qualified privilege in respect of their evidence. They are directed that only evidence connected with the subject matter of these proceedings is to be given and they are asked to respect the parliamentary practice to the effect that, where possible, they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable. Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person or body out- side the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I now invite Ms McGuinness to make her opening statement. Mairead McGuinness: I am delighted to be here. One of my roles as first vice-president is to liaise and dialogue with national Parliaments. I believe we need to dialogue more and to do so better. The chairpersons and vice-chairpersons of national Parliaments meet every six months in the country that holds the Presidency. I attend those meetings. I understand the Chairman, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae, has not yet attended. These are meetings where en- gagement takes place with colleagues from other national Parliaments. Senator Terry Leyden: The Chairman is well represented by the Vice Chair. Ms Mairead McGuinness: Yes and by other members of the committee. I sometimes think there is a little bit of tension, unnecessarily so, between national parliamentarians and Members of the European Parliament. We are all elected by citizens and we do the same work and I think we could do it better together. I would be interested in hearing the committee’s observations in that regard. On the topics for discussion, the taskforce on subsidiarity is in place. National parliamen- tarians will have a role in that taskforce and the European Parliament will provide the facilities. 2 14 FEBRUARY 2018 I hope to be involved in the work of the working group. Specifically on the future of Europe, I am happy to see that Ireland is doing a lot on the future of Europe by way of national consulta- tions led by the Minister with responsibility for European Affairs, Deputy McEntee. Last night, a meeting was held in County Meath, led by the Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine, Deputy Creed, on the future of the Common Agricultural Policy, with a further meeting to be held tonight in Carrick-on-Shannon. We are doing a lot of work in Ireland on very serious is- sues around the future of Europe which are linked to the budgetary issues. This came across very strongly at last night’s meeting. It is important to put on the record that every person who spoke at the meeting last night said that in light of the trend in farm incomes we need not only to hold onto the budget we have but to push for an increase in the budget for the Common Ag- ricultural Policy. While that might be a difficult proposal to discuss it is important to put on the record the view of the people on the ground. In regard to Brexit, we are trying to garner the UK position from various speeches that have been read into the record, including today. While the UK has said it does not want to see the European Union weakened, with every speech, I get the opposite impression. There is a sense from the UK side that it is going alone on the high seas, breaking off to do global trade agree- ments without the European Union and suggesting that it can be bigger and better without being part of the European Union. For all its flaws, Europe has been very good at keeping people at the table. Large and small countries have managed to work together and to do so effectively. We are now seeing the consequences of one country deciding that it might be better off doing its own thing. This week, a report was published, that shows the serious consequences of Brexit for Ireland. It will be important for us in the Parliament, in terms of our making sure it fully understands the impact for Ireland. Parliamentarians are working well together not only on the Irish issues but on the conse- quences for the European Union around its future but issues are being forgotten about, includ- ing public health and consumer protection issues. Europe currently has in place a huge amount of rules and regulations which protect public health not only in Ireland but across the European Union. On the composition of the European Parliament, Ireland is set to gain two seats, although this has yet to be confirmed by the Council. If that happens, all of us would like to know where and how the boundaries might be drawn to accommodate the two extra seats. The sooner we know that the better because the elections will take place in May 2019. The issue of trans- national lists was voted down by the Parliament. My own view is that it is an idea not to be scrapped. It is one that could be developed in future when other matters at a European level have settled down. While our focus is on Brexit, with so much happening we also have to keep an eye to the debate about the future. I hope that the voice from Ireland is that we believe that Europe has a future but that we will have to engage differently. In my speech to the European Parliament last week I made the point that I will miss the engagement with MEPs from the United Kingdom. Those who worked well in the Parliament will be missed. Their voices will be missed at the Council table and we will have to reflect that in how we do our business. While the engagement between national Parliaments and the European Parliament is work- ing it could be better. I am interested to hear the committee’s thoughts on that engagement. I acknowledge that everybody is busy and that the Chairman has to leave soon to go to the Dáil Chamber. We are never in Ireland when this committee is meeting. If we believe that Europe needs to be strengthened and reformed then I think we need to work well. I appreciate this op- 3 JEUA portunity. Chairman: I thank Ms McGuinness and I now invite Ms Deirdre Clune to make her open- ing statement. Ms Deirdre Clune: I thank the committee for facilitating this meeting. Brexit is consum- ing Parliament. In terms of the March session, we are currently working on a resolution on what the future arrangement could or should be with the UK but we are operating in a vacuum because as everybody knows the UK does not know what it wants. I know that the committee has held numerous hearings on the likely impacts of Brexit.