I N T ROD U C T ION
This project is a study of the changes in Bridgeport neighborhoods from the viewpoint of selected Black residents during the historical periods of World War I, the Depression, World War II, and the 1960·s. By means of interviews, we have investigated the social and economic effects of each period on Black Bridgeporters. All persons interviewed have resided in Bridgeport during at least three of the targeted periods. We attempted to explore how their families, friends, and neighbors were affected during those turbulent times. We discovered the changes that occurred on their jobs, in their neighborhoods and in the city as a whole. This kit contains a transcript and a tape recording of the , interview along with suggested activities that are best suited for grades 5-8 and adaptable for high school students.
AAEA Education Committee Members!
De~ise Foster-Bey Susan Golson David Hicks Gwendolyn Johnson James Johnson Juanita wright Frances Judson, Cnairman Consultants: John Sutherland, Ph. D. David Palmquist, Curator PERSONAL DATA
William A. Allen P. O. Box 6291, Bridgeport Born: November 29, 1911 - Washington, N. C. to Annie and Albert Allen Spouse: Sybil O. Allen Children: Ten Education: High School Profession: Bail Bondsman, Real Estate Travel: Continental United States Church, New Hope Baptist Organizations, New Era Lodge #190, Elks "A Study of Bridgeport Neighborhoods: A Black perspective, 1900 -- Present"
Interview by: Juanita Wright Interview with: William Allen Date: Fall 1983 Allen Page 1 JW: Mr. Allen, we are really interested in the place
where you were born, your date of birth, when you
came to Bridgeport, and the neighborhood you lived
in. Could you tell me some of those things?
WA: Neighborhood - you mean of different cities?
JW: Of Bridgeport, really. Your early life. Where
were you born?
WA: I was born in Washington, North Carolina, on
November the 9th, 1911.
JW: when did you come to Bridgeport, Mr. Allen?
WA: 1920. I come here from Portsmouth, Virginia.
I left North Carolina when I was three years old.
We Came to [unclear] in Portsmouth.
JW: When you Came to Bridgeport, did you come with
your mother and father?
WA: I came with my mother.
JW: with your mother. Could you tell me something
about where you lived when you first came here?
WA: Yes, I lived on the East Side of town. The
number was 87 Clarence Street, the address.
JW: Did you go to school when you first came here?
WA: Oh, yes. I went to Waltersville School. [That]
was the first school I went to.
JW: Could you tell me something about the Blacks that
were in school with you at that time?
WA: Honestly, at Waltersville at that time I didn't
know any Blacks.
JW: You were just about the only Black that was in the Allen . Page 2
school in the early age?
WA: That's all I can recall -- my sister and I.
JW: That was about what -- 1920?
WA: 1921.
JW: In your neighborhood itself. were there many
Blacks?
WA: Mostly Portuguese. My step-father's Portuguese. too.
JW: What was your step-father's name?
WA: John DeMathis Gonzalez.
JW: How far in school did you go when you were in?
WA; I went to eighth grade at Barnum School.
JW; So you left Waltersvi11e and went directly to
Barnum?
WA: No. I was in plenty schools.
JW: Would you give me some of them?
WA: Sure. I went to Waltersville. I went to Prospect.
and there's the one on Wheeler Avenue
JW: Wheeler Avenue School?
WA; Wheeler Avenue. yes. That's Shelton School. Then to
Barnum School. to Felix School, and back to Barnum.
JW: During all those years that you were in school
there, there were very few Blacks?
WA: No, I was speaking of Waltersville. the first one I
went to. But thereafter I was with Black students.
JW; What kind of activities did you have in school that
you took part in?
WA: Most things that were active: sports, soccer,
basketball, baseball. Allen Page 3
JW: You did take a part in those things?
WA: Sure.
JW: As a Black in school during that time, you were able to take a part in most of the activities that
were in the school?
WA: yes, parades and such. JW: You went to school until you were in the eighth
grade and you graduated from Barnum at the eighth
grade?
WA: I quit.
JW: You quit in the eighth grade. Then after you quit
school, what did you actually do? What did you go into individually?
WA: I went to work, went to the Brass shop. Then I
got laid off from there and then I just traveled throughout the country.
JW: About how old were you when you left eighth grade?
WA: I was fifteen years old.
JW: Fifteen and you were able to get a job?
WA: Well, I didn't come right out of school then go
right to work. I was looking for work but I worked like on ice trucks, coal trucks, and such.
JW: Let's go back and talk about your mother for a
moment. What did she do? What was her position? Did she work or was she --?
WA: No, she was a housewife.
JW: She was a housewife. What church did she attend when she was here? What church did she go to? Alle n . page 4
WA: I think it was Mount Aery, then she went to Bethel.
When she passed, she was a member over to First Baptist.
JW: First Baptist. Now, you said Mount Aery - about
what year was that?
WA: That was back like '22. Reverend Wilson was the
pastor.
JW: Of Mount Aery?
WA: He was the founder of the church.
JW: Where was Mount Aery located during that time?
WA: Over on wallace Street.
JW: It was on Wallace Street, just as it has been for
years?
WA: Well, it wasn't -- it was across the street from
the new one.
JW: It was across the street?
WA: Yes.
JW: Because they've built another church now, a newer
church. So the old church is the one where they
were across the street from?
WA: There's a lot there now.
JW: But the original church?
WA: Was across from the new church that they built
across the street.
JW: So your mother was a member of Mount Aery during
that year. Were you active in the church during
that time?
WA: I've always been active in the church to a certain
extent in my younger years. Allen Page 5
JW: In having the church as a part of your home life,
is that where most of the activity for the Black
community surrounded, by the church?
WA: Well, I'll tell you, in Bridgeport there was no
such thing as that - to my knowledge - as a
Black community. They were spread out all
over Bridgeport just like they are now.
JW: Let's go into the World War II period and see what
you remember about that. Were you married at a
early age or did you do your courting and whatnot
during that time?
WA: [unclear) I was first married when I was twenty
four. It was '34.
JW: Back in 1934. Did you have any children from that
marriage?
WA: No.
JW: Could you tell me something about the war period?
Or even the Depression, I'd be interested in that.
WA: Yes, during the war period there was nothing happening
other than the things that I know [unclear] But during the Depression, those were the
tight years. I was in the C.C.C. camp during
that time. There was the camp in East Lyme, l077th
Company it was called and it was in East Lyme. I
did my time there. It was first year and then I
re-enlist and I had a little misfortune there in
my second year I spent there. I was thrown out.
So, I went to traveling. I was called a - I was Allen Page 6
riding trains - I WaS hoboing. Yes, a hobo. Just
for a couple a years. But I always came back to
Bridgeport when it was cold season.
JW: During the time you were in C.C. camp, was that to
help your family? Were you able to help your parents?
WA: yes, the government sent help. You got a dollar a
day. That's thirty dollars a month. They'd send
twenty-five dollars home.
JW: To your family?
WA: yes. And they gave us five dollars.
JW: yes. Were you still living, your family still living
in the same place on the East Side?
WA: No, they lived on Wallace Street, across the street
from the church.
JW: yOU did live on Wallace Street. During the Depression
years, you went to C.C. camp, but do you remember
anything about being at home and people getting •. ~ together to have their meals together or anything
like that?
WA: Yes. [unclear]
JW: Did anybody come in - other people come in to
eat with your family or anything?
WA: Mostly like on weekends. Sunday evening when we'd
come from church, some men from outside. We didn't
have many relatives.
JW: yOU had no relatives in Bridgeport?
WA: NO.
JW: So you didn't have any extended familY to have to Allen Page 7
come in and eat and live with you?
WA: That's right.
JW: You say there was ten members, ten children -- of
your children. So, what about your brothers and
sisters? Did you have any others?
WA: I only had one sister. She passed.
JW: It was just the two of you.
WA: She passed on at an early age, I think she was
twenty-seven. (unclear]
JW: What about your mother? How long was she with
you?
WA: My mother passed in '59.
JW: Could you explain anything about Blacks in World
War II and during that time? Do you remember what
it was li~e for Blacks in this area?
WA: Yes, I know what it was like to an extent because I
tried to join the Army during the Depression before
I started traveling. I started to join the Army and
couldn't make it. I was going to enlist in the Coast
Guard in New London. The lady at the Black Y.W.C.A.
there advised me against it. (unclear] I didn't get to join. She got me a job on the
train as a fourth cook, as you might call a dishwasher.
I was trained to become a short-order cook on the
train. That was on the Columbia Express they called
it -- from Boston to Washington at that time. I
quit. I stayed on there for about six months then
I quit 1n New York. New York -- the bright lights Allen - Page 8
and I stayed there. Went to work on the railroad
in June. From time to time, I was working on the
railroad -- jumping steel, we called taking up tracks
-- replacing new ones, taking up alter tracks.
Then, this lady in New York, she since I was
staying with her, she decided she didn't want me
working there so I had to pullout from there and
I just left. I couldn't, I didn't want anybody
just It was a friend, you know.
So I left there and that's when I start to
traveling. I'd travel west then back to South.
Then I came back -- look for a job. Couldn't get
no job. I was looking to find a job there -- the
Armed Forces. The Black man, in those days they
had certain areas and a certain quota for Blacks
-- like Boston only needed a certain area that we
could join. Then they'll pitch it to Chicago or
maybe eight or ten could join. They'll pitch it
to Richmond. They just kept on picking it up.
That's why I started traveling -- trying to catch
up to an opportunity to enlist. It never did occur.
Kept traveling trying to catch them and kept
on traveling.
JW: So by World war II, then you weren't able to get
into the Army in world War II either?
WAt No, there was no Blacks could enlist at that time.
During the war, Blacks could be drafted but they
wouldn't take them to join. Certain ones, they'd Allen Page 9
pick that one, you know, status, where they want
to go. Just like Joe Louis.- they didn't even take
Joe Louis. He wanted to join the Navy and they
wouldn't take him. They took him in the Infantry.
JW: What did you actually do during the war since you
were not in the Army?
WA; During the war, I was in business. I had accumulated
a few pennies and I opened up a little store. During
the war I think I started this.
JW: Where was this store, Mr. Allen?
WA: Down South Main Street. It was 272 Main Street.
It wasn't, it was 276 Main Street.
JW: How long were you in business there? How long did
you stay in business?
WA; Since the year of the war. Up until right after we opened up the Brass.
JW: Do you remember the neighborhoods and how they
might have changed over the years? Could you tell
me something - like you were on Main Street, what
kind of changes did you see?
WA: A lot of changes and things. In what respect?
JW: How your neighborhood's changed, your community's
changed - you lived on the East Side for a while,
you lived on Wallace Street for a while -
WA: Well, you see, the East Side I'm referring to is
East Sider that is between the first bridge up
here what you call the Stratford Avenue Bridge
- then there's another the Yellow Mill Bridge. But this the East Side is between those two bridges. Allen Page 10
It runs all the way from what they call Steel Point,
down to the harbor, all the way up to Boston Avenue and
beyond. But I was speaking of between Pleasant Avenue
and Stratford Avenue and between those two bridges
that was our East Side. That's where we lived.
NOw, north of the railroad on the East Side there
mostly lived Polish and Hungarians. In my district,
down where we lived was Italians and portuguese,
mostly Italians. Then when you get across the East
Main Street going to the school, there was all them
Jews and Italians and whatever. East Main Street
and Pembroke Street was the Jewish and Italian
neighborhood store district. That went on for a long
time, up until the war when they ripped down over
there to build Father Panik Village. They
knocked down a lot of the buildings in what they
called neighborhood businesses - tenement houses
and things when they built Father Panik Village.
JW: When they built Father Panik, is that what they were
doing? They were tearing down the old tenement
buildings?
WA: Oh, yes. They tore down all the old tenement buildings.
JW: Was it in this time, during the war and during the -
WA: No, that was before the war.
JW: During the war, was that when you had a great influx
of Blacks come into the city?
WA: That's right. The war brought a great majority of
them. They started coming during the DepresSion - Allen Page 11
for relief, they started getting on welfare and whatnot.
They could get it here and couldn't get it elsewhere.
But the more successful or Blacks that was able to
do somethinq and had sumething, they COme right on
after the war, during the war. But during the
Depression, Blacks come to get on relief.
JW: So you had a great number of Blacks came in then
to try to survive?
WA: Yes.
JW: Is this when the Black communities began to be
established?
WA: When your speaking of the Black communities, you'd
catch occasional Blacks now. They come after the
war. It was during the war but after the war to
the great extent the Blacks of means and education,
they really brought in a lot of good to the Blacks
that were here, because they was very apathetic to , the situation up until that time. Anything they
could get, they was satisfied. They just thought
that they were - easy to please. You used to
have to sit upstairs in the movies and all that
kind of stuff. They accepted it. Some restaurants
and many bars - that was after the Prohibition was
pulled off - just didn't cater They didn't
give business to Blacks. [Blacks] couldn't go in
there. They'd just pick restaurants to go into
lunclear] •
JW: I guess this is when Blacks began to establish their Allen Page 12
own places to go to, since they had no place to
sociali ze?
WA: Well, that's true. Most of the places had been
established then was what we called after-hours
places. It wasn't much of a license problem or
matters of that type. If they did they'd let
Blacks come in. It was operated and owned by
whites.
JW: Do you remember say Stratford Avenue -- any
movies of any kind that was over in that area?
WA: Oh, yes. The Hippodrome was over there. AS I was
going to say when I was speaking about the East
Side, when you passed the Yellow Mill Bridge going
over [unclear] that's the East End. We used to go
over there to Pleasure Beach. But Blacks over there
had a little better standards. They were more affluent.
JW: The Blacks in the East End were what you would
call your upper [class) Blacks -- people that have
WA: Beardsley Street, Newfield Street
JW: Do you know any of the old Black families that
probably were here when you came?
WA: Oh, yes. Ballou's, the Buster's, the Ferrar's,
the Luckett's -- but they weren't over there --,
the Ballou's and the Ferrar's was over there and
up in the Trumbull. But the Luckett's was the ones
in the hollow, the other side. Now, you know you
try to think of them, offhand -- it's not easy.
JW: It's kind of hard to go back and I'm asking you to Allen page 13
go way back. You mentioned the movies and people
having to sit upstairs in the movies.
WA: Yes. I'm speaking of downtown movi0s. Now the
Hippodrome and the old one that used to be on
East Main Street - they were the nickel movies. Naturally, we'd want to sit upstairs because that's
where you paid a nickel. You has to pay a dime
to sit downstairs. [unclear] JW: So there were other movies besides the ones downtown?
For Black - for people to attend? WA: Yes, you could go to all of them. But as I say, those
were the popular ones downtown, the Palace, the Globe.
The Globe was the original poli's. Then they built
the Poli Palace that went on the corner of Congress and Main Street. Then they built the Majestic. Those
are all Poli Theaters. The old Poli was where the
Globe's parking lot is now. Then they built the
Palace on the corner. Then the Majestic next to it.
Then they went to work and built the Lyric. They
all was Poli's. Then they eliminated the old poli
and made it the Globe and the Palace became POli's
Palace. The Poli's found it and the Poli's kept it.
The Lyric came up further by the Strand Theaters.
JW: Do you remember anything about possibly Black
entertainers ever coming into Bridgeport?
WA: Sure, but I'm not able to recall their names. I
was never much for that. But the Big Bands used
to come in. Sunshine Sandy used to come here. Allen Page 14
Jimmy Plasteer used to play in the Black/White Band
Matter of fact, he originated it. He was from the
Hollow.
JW: Do you remember when employment began to change
for Blacks in Bridgeport?
WA: After the war. Prior to that, only jobs that Blacks
got was these here factories was in the foundries,
the casting and the hard and the hot foot.
JW: DO you remember anything about any factory in the
city one of the foundries? Do you remember the
name of any of them? Could you recall any of the
names of them?
WA: You mean during the war?
JW: yes.
WA: The Metropolitan, Remington's, Singer Sewing
Machine, you got General Electric, Remington, and
all them factories. Blacks couldn't get a job
there before the war. It took a government order
it. when the government ordered it,
[unclear] Now there was only two
shops that I knew that hired BlackS to any extent.
That was the Acme Shear that is now Carpentar
Steel. Not Acme Shear. Acme Shear
was a shear shop. [rest of statement is very
unclear]
And the Brass and up there in the new
shop [unclearl • They only hired them in the casting department. But these other shops, Allen Page 15
they wouldn't ~irp them. Except there was one down here. there's R"nther casting shop that's
still on Housatonic Avenu",. Didn't know what that
one is.
There was a lot of shops. but none (or Blacks.
JW: None for Blacks. WA: No. not before the war. The war opened the door.
JW: So what mostly did Blacks do? What jobs did they do? What jobs could they get? How did they survive?
WA: Well, I'll tell you, the Black man had to hustle.
The women got jobs in homes as you know. we're
talking about before the war now. The war changed a
lot of things. But prior to that. the women they
worked in services and most men worked like coal
yards. I was a longshoreman. I worked on the boats
and I worked in coal and coalyards. In the summer
time. it's nice. But just to get a job like any
other man would do no, indeed.
JW: Couldn't get them. It was just tough.
WA: It's not tough. It just didn't exist.
JW: We were just barely surviving, really. Just did survival work.
WA: We had to hustle. We wrote numbers and sold liquor.
We gave weekend parties, what they call house rent parties. That's what we did allover town
we played • I couldn't pay the rent • My mother didn't want us to do those kinds of things. JW: What I want to talk to you about is the civil Allen . Page 16 rights movement in the 1960's? Do you have any
feeling" about that or what happened during the
WA: I was glad to see Martin Luther King's movement and his passive way in proportion to the Black Muslim movement, so-called militant. And it wasn't in my opinion militant, it was just a upright, honest man type of movement. But I felt like it was very good for both of them when the government started to loosen up and gave Martin Luther [King] a lot of consideration __ in my opinion, to offset the militant of the Black Muslims and all that kind of that. The speaker for them Muslims, the one called down by the head Muslim, i when he said, the chicken come home to roost - I I JW; You talking about Malcolm X? [\ WA: Malcolm X. Now those characters did a whole lot. I They helped a whole lot. Each one of them -- every l one of them played a part -- [unclear] I\
JW; Did you see the effects of it in Bridgeport at all? WA; Yes. TO the point that so many of our people were disgusted with the fact they wasn't doing us no good for them to be doing this movement. But, hell, they wasn't -- they was doing a lot of good. Every little bit helps. It kind of scared me -- my daughter went to the civil right movement. She went down South. It Allen < Page 17 happened to register voters - and they dream. She was with what they called this outfit. But anyway, the BlacK guy, he got promoted to a good job. I was scared but she said - young people have to be daring and adventuresome and she didn't mind. JW: She went down for the Voter's Rights Movement? WA: Yes, she did. She got caught out there in the mud, and the wind, and in the fields miles and miles away from nowhere. But they really was going to get to it She was saying that she was better received [unclear] by the whites than she did by the Blacks. The BlaCKS were saying we didn't send for them - we don't want them here. JWI That was mostly fear, I think.
WA:, It was. JW: In the Sixties, do you think that that's when the jobs really began to improve in the Bridgeport area for BlaCKS? WAI We had improvement before that but today there seems We had a different influx of Blacks in Bridgeport. After the war, they began to really show results and a lot of these "old-timers" had been here maybe since yesterday and they felt they was the upper crust between the BlaCKS [unclear] But after getting in here, [unclear] I'm sorry they were. They began really going to school and doing something for theirselves. Because Allen Page 18 I remember before that, they didn't go to high-schools [end of side one] [break in taped conversation occurs here] WA: That was hardly, there's no need to go any farther than that. At the same time, my mother did need some help. I really liked school. I didn't have no ability, no background. There was nothing to offer us in high school. I just didn't go. I went to work around here. I went to work in New Haven. Odd jobs and everything else, hustling and everything else. But those days -- the Black went to high school, that was equivalent to going to college. So many of them went to college and got a job driving elevators. They thought they had I you know, hit the top rungs. They were satisfied \ with it. Look at Albert Finn, John Lancaster - he's a lawyer -- they enjoy it. But you get them a job collecting tolls, you know what I mean? \ JW: Did he never really practice law until I WA: After this whole thing, just before he passed. The only big thing he did in law was , and real estate, going searching real estate problems I for different lawyer's offices. He never did - I JW: No, because of the prejudice. WA: He never did get past the Bar [exam]. [unclear] JW: And I think you had to have it from so many lawyers Allen Paqo 19
in order to even take the test. That's reill s,,,4
about us about how hard it has been for us.
Was any of your family or your children in
the Viet Nam war at any time?
WA: No. Most of my relatives was girls. We had a couple boys but they were not in the war.
JW: You say you had ten children. Would you just
name them for - WA: Not by the same [woman]. They're really illegit.
JW: So let's not even talk about them. ,I IS there anything, anything at all, that you ,[ d would like to talk about that we did not cover? ;1 Anything that you'd just like to talk about something, fl H I'd like to have it on the tape. Anything that you : 1 , I would like to tell us. !i WA: I would say this now. My first daughter -- Gloria.
She's Gloria Davis now. At the time that she finished school, she finished Norwalk High, I when I say finished school. I was not in any I 1 I i position to send her further than that. In fact, I [unclear] She went to Balcus. She was in
Business School. The first year she went there
was summer time. She
They was giving other people jobs, other students
were getting jobs for the summer. She went out
and she tried to get a job herself. When the school
opened up, they called for us.
She went back to school. Modern Tobacco called the Allen Page 20 house and said that she had put an application in. They wanted her to come in. I went up to the school and told her she had this -- they accepted her application at Modern Tobacco. They was over on River Street at the time. She picked her books up and left the school and went to Modern Tobacco. She quit and she worked there until she got married. Then she picking up and doing and carrying on. She got more adept at it. Then she worked for Bishop Manufacturing, she worked for the and now she's with the Hall Neighborhood doing the timekeeping over there. Doing the payroll taxes JW: with George pipkin? WA: pipkin. So this is one thing that I found that bothers her. She wouldn't hear it. She's doing like I had to do. She had to get out and do for herself. Now at that time that I was saying, the Blacks didn't get the opportunity. So she went I I out and did for herself. I JW: What she had to. I i WA: [unclear] This last she's been there a couple of times. And now she has been there about ten years. But there she go That was one of the funny things about
• Then, the other two that I raised up -- one is a doctor and one is a consultant for industrial, consultant for big companies.
1, Allen Page 21 JW: So those are things that happened later on? WA: These are things that are different from the time I come around. I see the change from my kids as I say, with Gloria. Now she had to go out and do things that she didn't even know, didn't realize what's out there. But that's the change from back there. That's very obvious at this particular time. JW: Is there anything else that you'd like to tell us about? Anything that went on in Bridgeport with Blacks, or anything that might be helpful. WA: I'll say this. I think the influx of Puerto Ricans helped us a lot. That's my opinion. I know when I first corne in here, I was raised with Portuguese and Italians and they was just getting off the boat' too. It was tough. Then, as soon as they was getting elevated, and they started doing things for themselves, like Tedesco, Mandanici
They made their way the hard way. But then us Blacks -- we was conspicuous for our color. They was conspicuous by their accents and by their names. At first, they'll change their names for a while and then try to alter everything, until they got a good foothold. Then they're accepted. And the puerto Ricans are doing the same thing. Now, the Black is going to have to just accept themselves and be proud of their own and do things. We're just beginning to realize we have a Allen . Page 22 heritage and a culture and to accept it. I remember when Blacks -- you couldn't even say "Black". You call me colored, Negro, anything else but black.
Don't call me black, you know?
This is one of the happiest days in my life, to realize that the Blacks are not ashamed of being Black. JW: Yes, that is wonderful. WA: The funniest thing happened to me once, I was out to list a house from a lady when I was in real estate. She was saying to me about her son. She had a son out in Oklahoma who was a half-breed. His father was an Indian and she was white. Her son had killed a man out there for calling him a "damned half-breed." That was just about a bad as calling a Black man a "nigger." This man had called him a "damned half- breed" and he killed this man. He was doing time -- I don't know, like ten, twelve years or something. But he was getting ready to come out. She had moved here she said, because in the East he would be con sidered white and there wouldn't be any problems for him. But she still wouldn't let me in that house to list that house because she couldn't sell to it to colored people up in that neighborhood -- Lafayette Street. It was all Polish around there and she said she didn't want to offend those people. But she was so upset about it, she didn't want to do it: but Allen Page 23 she just couldn't bring herself to do this. I talked to her so frankly, like I'm talking to you -- more so at that time than I'm talking to you. She says to me, "You don't mind being colored, do you?" I said -- I don't know how it popped in my mind - I said, "Miss, listen, I've got just as much right being Black as you have to be white. And I've never been ashamed of being Black." She was so amazed, she didn't know what to do. She invited me in the house, gave me a cup of tea, and we get on - But you know she didn't list that house. JW: Wouldn't list it, would she? WA: She would have listed with me if I'd have sworn to her that I would not sell it to Blacks. I had white people ready to buy the house. But I would not condescend to accept this sort of arrangement with her -- to say I wouldn't. During the war, I had the same thing happened to me with a Jewish lady, too. She had a house over on Beardsley Street she had listed with me. [unclear] She didn't mind us selling that to Blacks. You know, because you're
Black they think [unclearl • But that wasn't so, we dealt with everybody. She had a house on Barnes Street. It was all white there. She was saying she couldn't list it with us because she says, "Some Jewish people living there, and they would severely offended," Allen Page 24
She was Jewish. It was during the war when they
were just killing and annihalating the Jews. And
she cried. She lived on Hanover Street. And she
cried. She'd be on
the bus, and she'd sit down and some people would
get up and say they smelled something -- call it
"kike" or something. Said they'd insult her every
which way. But still she could not bring herself
to what she called offend these people by letting
a Black sell her property.
But you know that's not the end of it. I've
had Blacks doing the same thing. Blacks do the
same thing. There's a fellow in real estate then
downtown on Stratford Avenue told me about when he
went to list a house, he'd put up a sign over on
this house over on DeForest Avenue. He said a
Black lady came out the door next door and spoke
to him in Italian, "Mister, please don't sell this
to Black people."
JW: Really?
WA: That's what he said. So, discrimination ain't just
discriminating in this [unclear) Discrimination
is flared allover. And he laughed when he told me
this. And I know it's true.
I know another Black lady that was a friend of
mine. I had my sign on a house over there on Whitmore
Street on the East Side. She looked and seen my sign
and she went to these here same people I was telling Allen . Page 25
you - mentioned down here on [unclear) , she
went to the same people to buy the house. I owned
the house. I had bought the house strictly so
they came to me. [laughs) She seen my sign, she
know me.
JW: And wouldn't call you.
WA: She went to them to buy the house. So they told
me all about it. Now, Buddy, all you got to do-
I said well, l've got to pay commission, she'll
have to pay the commission. And you know, she
paid five hundred over what it would have cost
her through me.
JW: Rather than to come to you to buy it?
WA: She didn't know to. She knew it, I suppose,
she got so mad she -
JW; [Laughs.]
WA: This ain't a one-way street, Miss Wright.
JW: NO. well, listen, Mr. Allen, I really thank you
so much. If there's anything else you'd like to
say, we'll be glad to hear it.
But we want to thank you so much for doing
this interview. I think we're going to have a
lot of good things for the children to hear on
this.
[End of Interview]