Action on Hard-Core Unemployment and Other Problems of the Urban Poor. Frustrations and Aspirations of Ghetto People Were Illust

Home , Ghetto Brothers

DOCUMENT RESUME ED 026 587 AC 003 279 Proceedings of the National Workshop on the Urban Poor, Manpower and Consumer Potentials (March 26-27, 1968). Chamber of Commerce of the United States, Washington, D.C. Pub Date 68 Note-142p. Available from-The Chamber of Commerce of the U.S., 1615 H St., Washington, D.C. 20006 ($5.00) EDRS Price ME-$0.75 HC-$7.20 Descriptors-*CommunityAction,*DisadvantagedGroups, Employment Trends,Expenditures, Income, *Intergroup Relations, Labor Market, Leadership, Negroes Occupations, Public Policy, Self Help Programs, Statistical Data, *Unemployment, *Urban Areas, Violence, Youth The purpose of this workshop was to work out sound, practical means of promoting better intergroup communication in American cities and improving community action on hard-core unemployment and other problems ofthe urban poor. Frustrations and aspirations of ghetto people were illustrated in a film. Panel interviews and an audience question session were held with Negro youth leaders. Prepared papers, summaries, and remarks were offered on psychological, social, and other factors in urban unrest; the need for indigenous ghetto leadership; leadership through ghetto self help in Detroit; manpower and consumer potentials of the urban poor; recruiting and job coachingof the hard core unemployed in Chicago; and accommodating employer entry job requirements in Missouri. (The document includes references; research data on 17 indicators of future urban violence in several dozen high probabilitycities; and statistical data on labor force trends, variation in unemployment rates, incidence of poverty, proportions of Negroes in major cities and regious. educational attainments of Negroes, occupations of nonwhites, income growth and distributions, and consumer expenditures.) (ly) U SuEPARTHENT Of HEALTH EDUCATION 8. WELFARE 28-27, 1968 OFFICE Oi EDUCATiON ROCEEDINGS

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' , PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL WORKSHOP ON MANPOWER AND CONSUMER POTENTIALS TABLE OF CONTENTS

Workshop participants 1 Frustrations and Aspirations of Ghetto People: MIDSUMMER, 1967 Dialogue in a film presentation 3 Negro youth leaders Panel interview 7 Negro youth leadersAudience questions 18 Summary statements of papers by: Sol Chaneles 28 Saul Alinsky 31 Alvin Bush 34 Panel Interview 36 Audience questions 47 Summary of paper by: Seymour Wolfbein 53 Audience questions 56 THE OUTREACH dialogue in a film presentation 60 Statements on: Recniiting, and job-coaching of hard-coreunemployed 65 Accommodating employer entry-job requirements 66 Audience questions 67 Prepared papers: Some Contributing Factors +o Urban Unrest. ...Sol Chaneles 79 You Can't See the Stars Through the Stripes. ...Saul Alinsky 91 Leadership Through Ghetto Self-help. ...Alvin W. Bush 96 The Manpower and Consumer Potentials of theUrban Poor Seymour L. Wolfbein 103 WORKSHOP PARTICIPANTS

ALINSKY, SAUL D.Executive Director, Industrial JOHNSON, HAYNESSpecial assignments correspond- Areas Foundation, Chicago, Illinois. Author of a bi- ent, The Washington Evening Star.Pulitzer Prize ography of John T. Lewis. winner-1966. Author of DUSK AT THE MOUNTAIN; THE BAY OF PIGS; THE DISSENTER. BARRY, MARIONAssistant Director, Pride, Inc., Washington, D. C. LEWIS, LEONAssistant Director of Public Affairs, Station WMCA, New York City. Peabody Award winner BOOTH, ARCH N.Executive Vice President, Cham- (1967) for programCommunity Opinion, Station WLIB. ber of Commerce of the United States. Radio news director, WWRL, 1957-1965. BUSH, ALVINPresident, Career Development Cen- LUMSDEN, ARTHUR J.President, Greater Hartford ter, Inc. President and Founder, Peoples Community Chamber of Commerce, since 1956. Member of Task Civic League. On leaveHead Porter, Statler-Hilton Force for Economic Growth and Opportunity, and of Hotel, Detroit. Policy Committee, Chamber of Commerce of the U. S. CHANELES, SOL, Ph.D.Director, Urban Studies PATTERSON, EUGENEEditor, Atlanta (Ga.) Consti- Division, Simulmatics Corporation, New York City. tution since 1960. Vice Chairman, U.S. Civil Rights Project Director, Media Analysis of 1967 Urban Commission. Member of Board of Visitors of Berry Riots for President's Commission on Civil Disorders. College; of the National Board of Theological Educa- tion of the Lutheran Church of America. Pulitzer CLARK, KENNETH B., Ph.D.President, Metropoli- Prize winner (1966) for editorials. tan Applied Research Center, Inc.; Professor of Psy- chology, City College of the City University of New RICHARDSON, MARYStreet worker. In 1967, con- York. Author of PREJUDICE AND YOUR CHILD; sultant on urban problems, office of the Episcopal DARK GHETTO: DILEMMAS OF SOCIAL POWER. Bishop for the Pennsylvania Diocese, Philadelphia. Trustee, Howard University. SMITH, CHARLES H., Jr.President, The Steel Im- DYER, LLOYD E.Vice President, The Chesapeake provement and Forge Company, Cleveland. Member of and Potomac Telephone Companies, Washington, D. C. Board of Directors, Chamber of Commerce of the Member of Vocational Training Committee of Wash- U. S.; of its Task Force on Economic Growth and Op- ington Metropolitan Area Jobs Council. portunity, and Labor Relations Committee. "One of America's Ten Outstanding Young Men," 1955. GIVINGS, JIMMIExecutive Director, Northcott Neighborhood House, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. WINDSOR, C. L.Manager, Personnel Services, McDonnell Douglas Corporation. Member, Board of HENRY, DAVIDDirector of Supplementary Services, Directors, Urban League; of Mayor's Committee on JOBS NOW, Chicago. Cook County Department of Equal Employment Opportunity, St. Louis. Public Aid 1963-65. Elementary school teacher in Chicago, 1960-63. WOLFBEIN, SEYMOUR L., Ph.D.Dean, School of Business Administration, Temple University, Phil- HOWARD, RONALDManager, Adult Armchair Educa- adelphia, Pa. Various positions in U. S. Department tion, Opportunities Industrialization Center, Philadel- of Labor, 1942-66. Author of several books, includ- phia. Host co-ordinator for TV serieson consumer ing OUR WORLD OF WORK; EMPLOYMENT, UN- education for KYW. EMPLOYMENT AND PUBLIC POLICY; EDUCATION AND TRAINING FOR FULL EMPLOYMENT.

1 PROCEEDINGS

March 26, 1968 there was MR. BOOTH: Good morning,ladies and gentle- And in your invitation, you will recall mention of the fact that, at this first day'ssession, the men. We here at the NationalChamber welcome you to working press would not be represented. Poor: Manpower and This was done to encourage free andfrank, open and this "Workshop on the Urban to achieve Consumer Potentials." uninhibited, discussion and exchange of ideas You are a select audience. Youhave been espe- a better understandingof black Americans by white cially invited, and we are very glad you arehere. Americans. and televi- This should be an interesting,informative, stimu- Hence, newsmen and reporters, radio I think it would not be too much to say sion people, were not invited to thissession, lating meeting. that two of the men that it is probably one of the mostimportant meetings You will notice on your program that the National Chamber has everheld. on the interviewing panels areassociated with news There will be a penetrating discussionof one of media. But don't let that cramp your style. the most basiccertainly one of the mostvitally im- These men fully understand our objectives.And problems of the urban they have agreed not to write any stories orarticles portant issues of our timesthe Proceedings of poor, both black andwhite, Negroes, Puerto Ricans, based on today's discussions until the Mexican-Americans, and people from Appalachia, the workshop are made available. today and to- whom you will find in some large citiesin the north- The full discussion of this workshop, and a copy of the Proceed- central part of the country. morrow, will be stenotyped, All of these people are Americans,and we are ings will be mailed to you as a partof your registration concerned about all of them. fee. this pro- And now, as the first step inachieving a better un- Now, it has seemed to us, in preparing ghetto, we are gram, that we need to askourselves some pointed derstanding of the problems of the Negro have the problem going to show you a motion-picturefilm produced in questions. For example, why do we National Educa- of school dropouts and of juveniledelinquents? Are Newark, New Jersey, last summer by wrongly against people with police tion Television shortly after the riotthere. we discriminating public meet- or criminal records? Is ourwelfare system contrib- National Education Television set up a aspiration of ing of people concerned with the riot, andfilmed three uting to, or detracting from, the high about the causes of dignity for the individual in a free society? hours of back-and-forth discussion How can business provide youthsand adults, who the riot. and in training, with hope, en- For the television audience, thefilm was cut down are lacking in skills further condensed it to il- couragement and a productive job? to 90 minutes, and we have Well, we must, in short, addressourselves to the lustrate aspirations and frustrations of thepeople who questions of the hard-core unemployed. live in the Negro ghetto. And because there are certain aspectsof this As you would expect, they areconcerned with poor whole situation which are unique to the Negroand to housing, poor education, joblessness, andlack of com- the Negro ghetto, this workshop will tendto concen- munication within the community. attitudes from trate on the problems of the Negro. But they also express views and Simple stated, our purpose at this workshop,towhich I believe we can learn much. day and tomorrow, is to achieve a betterunderstand- They have the feeling, for instance,that, because of, they are not ing of the Negro problems. And understanding can they are black, they are thought poorly And respected, they are not listened to, they are not prop- only be based on truly effective communication. their interests that is what we have provided for. erly represented in the city government, Our purpose is to find and to learn howto apply are disregarded whenpublic improvements are planned sound, matter-of-fact methods to promotebetter com- and carried out. understand more munication among all segments in eachAmerican This film will help each one of us fully how these people feel, and why they feel asthey do, community. consideration That might be enough, but this workshopwill not about matters which should be taken into by the business commnity and others indeveloping end there. the local Out of it, we are confident, will comeeffective constructive action te solving problems at community action toward the solution ofthe problem of level. joblessness of the urban poor. Let's look at the film right now. Now, attendance at this workshop, as youof course know, was by invitation onlyinvitations tobusiness- (Film presentation.) men who are members of theChamber.

2 MIDSUMMER, 1967 MRS. KIDD: Well, for number 1 it's to go into the ghettoes. Go in there where the poor people is. As I ANNOUNCER: In the past few weeks, America has ex- was coming down here this afternoon, I was looking at perienced some of the worst violence in its history. people sitting around in parksactually having nothing City after city, large and small, in all parts of the coun-to doand I believe this is where, you kmow, it all be- try, has been torn by civil disorder.In order to try andgan, because people without a job, without work, peo- unuerstand what's happening and to put it into perspec- ple without satisfactory homesthey build up ideas of tive, NET went to the scene of one of the first and where do they go from hereand as you saywhere worst riots this summerNewark, New Jersey. We in-will we go from here. We need to get out and go up into vited some 200 people, a cross section of that com- the Central Ward. And not just sit down and talk about munity, to come together and discuss the problems that what we're going to do for thembut go up and let them di-vide them. We are about to show you excerpts of that tell you what you can do for them, and what they can do, meeting. What you will see and hear will be about one because they know what they want to dobut it's just city, Newark. But because the underlying causes of the the idea they don't have the things to do it with.I live riots are the same in every part of the country, we feel in the ghetto. Many people ask mewhat is the ghet- that the people of Newark have a meaning for all of us. toes? What is the grassroots ? Well, I'm one of them. Our moderator in Newark is Leon Lewis. I'm one of these people that live there.I travel through it every day.I walk through it every day. And as you MR. LEWIS: As we begin our discussion, I think we come through it during the day, working with people, should remember that the problems that caused you don't have to stop and ask, you can look at it on Newark's violence remain, and that the only real and their faces. You can look at it in all the people. The valid question is: Where do we go from here? I'd like homes that they live in. As I saywe need to stop to ask that question of the gentlemen on my right. He talking here and go up there'cause sitting down here is assistant to the maycr of this city, Mr. Malefronte, is not going to get it. where do we go from here? MR. LEWIS: Thank you, Mrs. Kidd. MR. MALEFRONTE: Well, I think the first job is to put together the pieces of a functioning government, to ESTA WILLIAMS: You said that you were concerned once again determine where all of us went wrong.I about jobs, right? Well, I think you have to get an think in distributing blame, the mayor has put it quite education first before you get a job, right? Now, if clearly. We are all to blame.It is, I think, very easy you read this book about automationdeals directly to blame outside agitators, and certainly persons from with cybernation, and you know automation is going to outside our city were arrested. But, I don't think such take the place of manpower, right? Now, the lady from is the problem at all.I think that the riot was a law- the Woodway sectionshe stated the conditions in the less act. The governor so declared it, and I think that Woodway section was bad. Well, I live in the heart of most of us feel that way. But nevertheless, at the bot- the Central Ward, Belmont and 17th Avenue. If you tom of an act like this, is a cryfor help. People, I think the conditions are bad in the Woodway area, they don't think, participate in riots, as so many inour are even worse in the Central Ward. Now, I tell you community did, unless there is a genuine and deep feel- they have kids going to the high schools, reading at ing of dissatisfaction with the citywith the way things the fourth and fifth grade level. Now, when they come are going in the cityand with our society.I think that out of a high school and they go in there reading at the we in Newark will pick up the pieces, not only for our fourth and fifth grade levelswhen they get a 12th city, but for American society. There is something grade diploma, what level are they reading at now. amiss in American societysomething which affects all Our high schools are producing kids that can't even cities perhaps now, but which essentially comes down fill out an application to apply for a job. So I think we to, I think, racism in American life and what to do got to get some quality education. about it.It's clear to all of us in Newark that, no matter how we tried, we didn't try hard enough, and that no MR. CORWIN: There is a second very specific item matter what we did, it wasn't enough. There is the ris-that the community is tense about. And that is the ing expectations of Negroes who have waited too long plan to build a medical school in the Central Ward of for equality in American life.I think there have been Newark, eventually covering 150 acres. It's very fine festering problems in housing, education, jobswhich to define all of these tensions and problems in terms have gone too long unsettled. of sociological terms about unemployment and how we have rising expectations and all that.But we have some MR. LEWIS: I wonder if we could ask Mrs. Marion Kiddvery specific problems that deal with the immediate to give her views onwhere we go from here? Mrs. situation. Despite what the mayor has said about charg- Kidd. ing that we are politically motivated people who are opposed to the medical school, there is a large segment

3 of this community that will not tolerate a medical closed up to what I'm saying, and I've got to bother with schooltaking 150 acres of land in the Central Ward, what you're saying? when we know there are not adequate plans to house many people who have been relocated from other proj- MR. MALEFRONTE: I think that one of the most over- ects in the city of Newark. rated matters under discussion is this lack of communication between people.I think there is a lack of MR. LEWIS: Mr. Corwin, would you tell us how taking communication. It's between everyone here whom I 150 acres of land would affect the people of the city know by their first nameswho have communicated and why they oppose it? many times. There have been failures of communication and it is not all between city hall and the police MR. CORWIN: Yes. The entire medical school proj- department and the ghetto. There has been a failure of ect will eventually dislocate over 20,000 people in the communication between the so-called leadership around Central Ward area. The record of the Housing Au- this table and people in this roommost of whom I thority has not been successful in relocating families Imowand the people whom they contend they speak for. that have had to move from areas that have been re- There have been failures of communication all along the developed in the city. And therefore, we do not have line. Newark is not speaking out here, not at all.The adequate housing today. One of our greatest problems persons who rioted, i believe, are not in this room. I in this city is housing. don't believe there is a man here who honestly speaks for those persons who rioted. We here are persons VOICE: If he'll look into my face good and hard, he'll concerned about Newark, who care about Newark, come remember mebeing down at the mayors office and he out here and speak and voice all the sociological and said there is a lack of communication.I would like to deep differences that are between us and so forth and let him know that we sat in front of the mayor's office so on. Nevertheless, I oelieve that communication with him whispering in the mayor's ear and told him, certainly has failed. But it is not only between the the mayor, that if he didn't do something about the Med police and the community, city hall and the police and sitebecause we have the irate fathers who did not the community. Communication failure is one of which know where they were going to move their children toI think all of us around this table must plead guilty, be- and if he dien't do something about the Board of Educa- cause we are all the so-called self-appointed leaders tion because we had the irate mothers who did not know and spokesmen. The people who rioted, I'm afraid, we what type of education their children was going to get. don't speak for. There was a group out there that none There are people on the Board of Educationwith chil- of us could reach.I think that no city administration dren sitting crosswise in the school seatsbooks that anywhere in this country has spent as much time talk- were outdated they had before I went to schoolwriting ing to people as we have. We talked to the wrong peo- on both sides of the paperand you sat there and told ple. We didn't talk to the people who riotedand I me you were paying $6 million to build a warehouse. include those around this table, because the people out For what? And my children can't get a good school there who caused the trouble are 17, 18, 19 year olds. building. You sat there and whispered to the mayor There wasn't anybody speaking for them. The problem when I said if you do not do something about this, there iswho is going to reach them? will be a riot in Newark. And the mayor said to me that he didn't think the Negroes in Newark were organized MR. LEWIS: Well, now who has a direct? I'll recog- enough to have a riot. lize this young manif you'll tell us your name, please. And I saidsince you are representing the mayor and the police chief, you catch it alland next time MR. LOFTON: My name is Oliver Lofton, I'm director bring them with you, you can divide it up. Now, in as of the Regional Services Project, and I don't look upon much as you told me that you didn't thinkthe mayor this antisocial behavior as a riot.First of all, in my told me we weren't organized enough to have a riot, judgment we have to understand the fact that we are what organization did you need for a riot? I came downnow reaping the poison harvest of 300 years of history. there speaking for the boysI have 17, 18, 19 or 20 And what we really see here is the voice of the people 16 years old, and you tell me there is nobody repre- revolting against an unjust system. And I would just senting them? What do you want? Those boys to comelike to go further and address myself to Mr. Male- into the mayor's office and do what they did downtown? fronte in terms of the fact of this dialogue that has to It can be done. Then, on top of all that, you all made occur. I mean, that there has never been a dearth of the statementyou, the police chief and the mayor dialogue between representatives of the Negro com- made the statement that we had elected him in office munity and the mayor's office or Mr. Malefronte or for four years and so the Med site was going up be- Mr. Schiff, or what have you. However, the kind of cause he was the mayor. Not what we wanted! You dialogue that has beenhas been sterile dialogue. And talk about communicationshow can you get cornmuni- from what I see right now, if somebody doesn't get to- cations between me and you when you got your ears gether and bring some pressure to bear upon that city

4 hall, that's the same kind of dialogue that's going to riot torn area in it.But I'm not listened to. No one is result after this, and w are going to have riot after listened to because we're blackand that is essentially riot in this city. the problem.I think the problem of police brutality, the problem of inadequate education and the problem of VOICE: This is the major problem. This is the first housing are simply symptomatic of the problem that problem we have to deal withand then we'll get to the black people are ignored. And they are ignored more problems of schools. Now, another thing that Mr. Male-particularly in this community by the city administra- fronte said wasthat nobody in this room could speak tion, than I think in others. for those youngsters out there. Let me tell you something about this.Every single time that all of us stocd MR. MEANS: I'm Fred Means, president of the Or- before the Board, the mayor's office or any place and ganization for Negro Educators.I go back to what Don said that you need to improve the schools, we were Malefronte said earlier. What we are really talking speaking for those youngsters out there. Every time about here is racism, attitude and power. Now, Don we said that you need to clear out those rat-infested related some experiences that he had as a youngster houses, we were speaking for those youngsters out growing up in a tough neighborhood. Now, I think too there. Every time we said that these youngsters need many times white people try to relate theexperiences jobs, we were speaking for those youngsters out there. of the European minority coming into America to the They didn't come down and articulate these things, but situation that occurs here with black America. It's not had these things been corrected, these youngsters wouldthe same at allseeand until you begin to try to see not have been running out there as they were. We the differences and understand the difference,s, you will spoke, we tried to speak to them, and anybodyLife be going around In one big circle. Now, let's bring at- magazine says it was predictable.It was predicted by titudes right home to Newark. Let's talk about how the everybody. You say there are no leaders here? No! city administration relates to the Negro community in They don't listen to leaders out here talking about the many areas. Let's talk about the board appointment problems. They are hand-picked-people that this com- that we just came through. Now, the Newark Commit- munity happened to pickand they are developed by the tee for Better Schools which represents a wide variety power structure. These are leaders I am going tolis- of groups here in the city of Newark, the organization ten to.These people are the ones that have the no con- for Negro educators, various groupsrepresents a wide tacts with the people out in the street. Yetand this variety of groups that in turn representcertainly these has been told over and over againyet these are the civil rights orientated people in the city of Newark things that are ignored. When we said that the people and we are confronted with 55% or better Negro popula- that you have picked just don't know what is going on. tion in the city of Newark. So, when this group comes They're in Boston somewhere or they are elsewhere in with a list of names of people they would like to see during the height of the riots. These are the people appointed to the Board of Education, and the other or- that you have selected as the Negro leaders and these ganizations in town, even apart from this particular are the ones that you have chosen tolisten to. Committee for Better Schools, make recommendations for the Board of Educationand the mayor appoints MR. PINKNEY: I want to address myself to a point someone entirely different that wasn't even onthe list, made by Don Malefronte. I would like this opportunity wasn't even being consideredthen that's another slap to at least explode the myth of Negro leaders and I hopein the face to the Negro community. Just a complete that for the rest of this we won't use that "whatever" and utter disregard for us, see. So we want a sever- any more. Leader in the traditional sense in the Negro ance of politics and education, and that's abig problem community has beenwell, they have been out of vogue in the city of Newark. Until the mayor recognizes that for at least 300 years. I don't know when was the last he can't play politics with our kidsnow, he's got all time you went to an Italian community and saidwho is kinds of fancy reasons for saying that all these politi- your leader? Or to an Irish community andsaidwho cal appointments don't really affect the kids. That's is your leader? You know, its a technique where you hogwash. He's talking about our kidsover 70% of have read in the paper some place that there are such whom are black, and any time he makes a political ap- things as Negro leadersthen the next day you say, well,pointment, our kids are suffering. Now, I would like to there, aren't any; therefore, I know more than anyone ask Mr. Malefronte, representing the mayor, if the else. The lady over here who spoke who had children inmayor still feels the same way. school came down to the mayor's office and attempted to represent her own feelings and the things of her im- MR. MALEFRONTE: I think that Fred's question is mediate family. She was ignored. I've been in the com-whether or not the mayor is still supporting several munity all my life, grew up in the riot torn area, I've persons for positions as assistantsuperintendent and worked in the riot torn area as a teacher for a great so on. number of years and now as a director of youth corps I think Fred's question was wnether or not the project that has a thousand of other youngsters from themayor was still supporting several Negroesfor posi-

5 tions as assistant superintendenthis question, I take who deal with grassroots like Jesse Allen, like Oliver itwhether the riot has shaken the mayor's confidence Lofton, like Bob Corwin, like, Esta Williams, and Edna in the Negro community.I think the answer there is-- Thomas and some of the other people who are sitting no. And I think he still does support Negroesfor as- here outside the panel. And those are the people who sistant superintendent in curriculum and another as are going to be primary. superintendent of elementary school and community re- I would like to just finally say that even Mr. Male- lations and several directors jobs. I think those namesfronte's being here is very racist and undemocratic have been widely publicized.I think the mayor's po- because there is no reason in the city where you have sition on .. a black majoritywhere the person who comes here represents the authority is an Italian and an Italian be- MR. MEANS: We're still playing the game! There's ing a member of a minority group.I am an organizer. the game, right there. We're skating on the ice. My only job in the city is to get Mr. Adonizzio and Now, the mayor told us that there were 3 people Mr. Malefronte impotent over the lives of black people white peopleone was a Negro, because he was going in this town. to pay him off for something he did. But there were 3 people that the mayor said he is supporting for positionsMRS. THOMAS: The problem is also this whole gather- in the Board of Education. Now let's go back a little ing.I get sick and ti-..ed of picking up a newspaper and bit and talk about politics and education. You know, hearing you all talk for me. Do you understand that? about a year and a half ago, there were some people It hurts me every time I sit down, and pick up a paper about 4 of themwho pulled out of the school system and see you plan, and you talk, and you say what you and went into jobs without going through the regular are going to doI don't even see what you say come procedure, in other words, political appointments. Now,about. Number 1 I got two children and they're sitting at the time, to placate the communitythe board, who back here and as long as I'm breathing, I'm going to were told by the mayor of course, said that these po- have something to say about their education,Not only sitionsthey were just temporary positions. Now, am I going to have something to say, I'm going tode- some of these same people who were appointed at that mand it. And anybody who knows me, knows that I do time on a temporary basis are now being projected and this. And like I'm here to tell you againbrothers, supported by the mayor for the permanent position. you can sit downtown all you want to, but you better go Now that's what I want to talk about, baby. You know it,up on that hill and start holding some of those meetings so answer that question. on public housing where those poor people pay$56 a month rent, also got to pay for laundry services. Now MR. HUTCHINS: I got to leave because I'm not a I know some of the richest people in the world don't Negro leader and as Mrs. Thomas saidthe real action have to pay for laundry servicesbecause they can is not down here. I'd just like to address two quick have washing machines. Anytime you got to pay $4 things to Mr. Malefronte. Number 1 is that some of and $5 a week to get your clothes laundered because the people in this room were in the rebellion and I you don't have a laundry service in the housing project would just say that he should look around and see it and this, brother, is wha,, some of the fight was about.I they may be doing it againso he better check it out andstood there watching them (riot). They were taking see who they are. Number 2 is my view of this whole everything they needed. They didn't take nothing that discussion.I think that the time for talk has gone and they didn't need. And you better believe me. And I that we have to move into organizing and action. We felt for thembecauselet me tell you something, I have to realize that there are two cities in this town. heard a man sitting down sayingI ain't got no job, but One is white and one is black. And that the future of I tell you one thing, my wife and my children will eat the city will be those 2 divisionsone white, one black. 'till I find one. And I know what was in his heart, and Now, I think as the representative in Newark for an or-it's not what these so-called people down here is pro- ganization which first projected black power that there fessing. And as I said before, you better get them is plenty of room in a human rights struggle in Newark downtown and go up there into the Central Ward, and for good white people.I tlAnk that they have to get in take a good look at the sins you have committed by under black leadership to make the fight for black con- building a new type of slum. trol in the city happen. And that it is not racism, it is Thank you. not extremism. I think it is in the best American tradition that the people who are in the majority should MR. BOOTH: Well, ladies and gentlemen, as I said in run the city. And that I think that Mr. Talbot's Com- my opening remarks, the basic purpose of this meeting mitteethe Committee of Concerned is a good idea. is to achieve a better and fuller understanding of the And I think they have to realize for us the real role is Negro problem. This is an example of some direct re- to get white people involved working for institutional porting. What we have seen in this film is, of course, changethat their role is primary, secondarythe peo-not confined to the inner city of Newark, but is found in ple who move to changethe real change will be people other Negro ghettos around the country.

6 So, to help us further our understanding, wehave I have had to invent a value system that did other with us today three Negro youth leaders,who have ac- things for me. cepted our invitation to be the guests of theNational And so, if you remember these things, which weall Chamber on this program, and to tell us plainlyand !Glow, if you will just keep them at the top of your con- candidly how the Negro youth of Americafeel about science, I think it will help you understand what wehave conditions affecting the Negro, not only theirfrustra- to say today. tions, but also their aspirations. I expect this to be an exciting discussion,and at Let me present these people to .5ou:first of all, the end of an hour, there will be an opportunityfor you from Washington, D. C., Mr. Marion Barry. in the audience to have your questions put tothese three From Philadelphia, Miss Mary Richardson. young black leaders. From Milwaukee, Mr. Jimmi Givings. You have been given question cards, and if you need To interview these youth leaders and toput ques- more, just hold up your hand, andeither of the two young tions to them to which all of us would like toknow the ladies who are circulating up and down the aisleswill answers, we have a panel of four menespecially well give you additional question cards. qualified for this assignment. As you write down questions, pass them along to First of all:Dr. Kenneth Clark. the aisle, these ladies will pick them up. Mr. Haynes Johnson. These questions will be brought to the screening Mr. Eugene Patterson. table. The purpose of the screening table is toelimi- Mr. Charles Smith. nate duplications, and I hope, when you write your ques- To moderate this morning's discussion, tokeep tions, you, too, will make them brief and to thepoint. things moving along, whom better could we findthan First I am going to ask Mr. Barry, then MissRich- Mr. Leon Lewis, the person who did such anadmirable ardson and finally Mr. Givings each to take three or job of moderating in the film which we have justviewed. four minutes to tell us a little bit about their work. So, Mr. Leon Lewis, will you pleasetake over? Mr. Barry, will you be kind enough to leadoff and tell us what you do? MR. LEWIS:I had to look around to see if we had any ladies present, so that I might say, ladies andgentle- MR. BARRY: Thank you, Mr. Lewis. men. I am delighted to be here. And Icertainly hope that this is going to be an instructive and excitingdiscussion I work for an organization called Pride, Inc.I am one that will live in your memoryfor sometime after. the Director of Operations. I have 1050 youngblack I might tell you how we are going toproceed this males from the ages of 14 to 25. About 800 of these morning. men are in school, and 250 are outof school. In the first place, for the next hour, theinterview- Among these 250, I would say 80 per cent of them ing panel members on my left individuallywill pose are high-school dropouts,kicked out or left out or questions to the panel of black youth leaders on my pushed out or put out, and among these same 250 men, right. Any one of them may choose to respondinitially I would say about 75 are men who havehad some prob- by holding up his or her hand. When he isfinished, lems with the police and were incarcerated and injail. either of the other two may add anything he wishes.We I work with these men. Their attitudes are very will continue in this manner for an hour. simple. These are the kinds of young men who say,if I would ask only one thing, that the questionsbe tomorrow is like today or yesterday, then thehell with succinct, bearing in mind that our purpose here this tomorrow. morning is, first, to learn and, second, to gain abetter I work with men who say that they are tiredof I understanding. living with the rats and roaches and slum housing. I would like to drop you a key or two that mayhelp work with men who say that they are tired of thepolice you to understand what our youngblack youth leaders beating them and committing brutalities on them. they might have to say. I work with men who say there are three ways First of all, the Kerner report suggests that we areare going to survive. They aregoing to work, beg or polarizing into two Americas. Well, for mea Negro, steal, and in a lot of instances, because of their rec- there have always been two Americas. Therehas been ords and education, they won't work. They are too the world in which I live and the world inwhich you proud to beg; therefore, they are going to steal. live, and in which I work. And my experience neces- They will knock you on the head and take some sarily has been somewhat different from your experi- money from you, because they have tosurvive. should ence. And,consequently, I may see things from a dif- I work with men who say, for instancewhy ferent frame of reference than you do, and also my we go 10,000 miles away tofight for the so-called value system may be a little different from yours,be- freedom we don't have here? cause the word "black"in your value system does things I work with young men who say this society is very to me. corrupt. They don't care anything about it.

7 Ths..se are the kinds of people I work with, who MR. LEWIS: Thank you, Mr. Givings. are alienated, who are hostile,who don't care what happens to this country. So, ladies and gentlemen, you see, we have three That is where I am at this point. people who are working in a very positive way in the areas of their concern.Necessarily, their problems MR. LEWIS: Thank you very much. are somewhat different from yours.And necessarily, their frame of reference may be somewhatdifferent I wonder if we can hear now from Miss Richard- from yours. son. So, it should be interesting now, as we turn to our panel, to hear what sort of questions the experts might MISS RICHARDSON: I am the representative and the ask. You in the audience will have your chance in a chairman of a group of gang youth from North Phil- little while. adelphia, and from West Philadelphia, and at last count Gentlemen, who has the first question? we had 3000 in our group. Yes, Mr. Johnson. I have recently been working with the poor white element that rioted against my people in 1967. I am MR. JOHNSON: I would like to ask Marion Barry the concerned with the human problem and not a racial question, just to follow up on what Mr. Givings just problem. I am concerned about the human needs of said. I was struck in the film by one of the remarks people and why they have those needs. that a Negro made there that said the Negroes were organized and had a riot in Newark, and the time for MR. LEWIS: Thank you, Miss Richardson. Fine. talking is past. Do you think that is the case here in your own experience, Mr. Barry?How do you feel? MISS RICHARDSON: How do you like that? MR. BARRY: Mr. Johnson, let me say this.I am not MR. LEWIS: That is very brief for a lady, isn't it? very optimistic, quite frankly, Ithink we have been promised for 400 years a number of things which have Now, I would like to hear from Mr. Givings. not been delivered And in every major city in this country, you still have promises being made. And, in MR. GIVINGS: I am the Executive Director of the fact, the most recent thing is the Kerner Commission Northcott Neighborhood House in Milwaukee, which is a Report, which has been virtually ignored by the Admin- settlement house, a social service agency. istration. And I thhik a lot of people, including myself, Primarily, in its history, the agency has also been are really tired of a lot of talk andtalk and talkwhich involved with youth in the community and providing doesn't lead to any action. And I believe that a lot of programs for youth in that community. people are just tired of that. And they don't want to The concept is basically to reach into the com- come and listen toand they won't come andlisten munity and find out what the community people them- tothat, and they tell me, "You have been talking, and selves feel is the thing that is missing, the thing that have gotten everybody down here, and we are tiredof has to be supplied. So, we then hope that we can de- listening to the talk." velop a program to provide the services that the total I think that, hopefully, today and tomorrow, con- community is laggard in providing. versation and dialogue will help some, but I don't think This may go into many different directions we have a lot of time in which to operateand move. community organization or just providing basic social I think it is almost too late. services. In the area of youth, our primary concern is that MR. LEWIS: I recognize Dr. Clark. we begin to teach and organizeyouth. I think that we have to keep in mind during this DR. CLARK: This question is to Mr. Givings. What do conference the fact that youth in America will become you think will be the effect of the KernerCommission organized. The direction in which their action goes willReport in getting the society to address itself to the depend not only upon you people here, but the total so- basic problems which you and others face in trying to ciety. seek justice? I think that if we do one thing at Northcott, we organize the individuals' minds. From that point out, I think, if you don't do something to solve the problems MR. GIVINGS: Let me say, first, that here in this face in this country, that the organization will country we have a history of being able to report on not result in a riot, but will result in anorganized rev- what the problem is, but no background for providing olution. And I think this is a decision, the thing that we the solution to the problem. should keep in our minds here. The effect that I see of the Kerner Report in the Thank you. Milwaukee communityand somewhat around the

8 -7 Trs

there it is. There is an- So my first feeling is to have aworld in whichI countryhas been that, well, in my lifetime, quite other great white paperfrom the white power structure,don't think it is going to happen There is no real effort to franldywhere people in this world,this country, can hut there are no solutions. human beings, as someone worth solve the problems that arementioned in the Kerner see each other as something and not as black persons orNegroes, or that Report. America is sincere about the kind of s-tffwhere youreally feel that you have an op- I think that if white capabilities and abilities al- Report that is made, at thispoint in time, they have to porhmity to do what your begin to organize their resourcesto, in fact, solve the low you to do. problems that are brought outin this Report. MR. LEWIS: Do any of ourother youth leaders want to DR. CLARK Do you thinksuch a Report was needed? comment? Miss Richardson. MR. GIVINGS: No, I don'tthink so.I think that we of an oppressed peo- MISS RICHARDSON: I wouldlike to see white America have watched, in fact, the actions preaching for so long. ple in the society which negatethe kinds of reports do what they have been kind of reportthat the which make unnecessary any would you have a comment? action speaks louder thanwords. There has been more MR. LEWIS: Mr. Givings, to vtoleace than actionmuch more actionin response I would agree with MissRichard- to reports. MR. GIVINGS: Yes. son. I think that isin itself a very adequate answer. leaders of this country pose Mit LEWIS: Mr. Givings, just onething, to clarify the It is strange that the When you say "they", whom do to the people the questionof solving the problem that answer to the question: Establishment in this soyou refer to? has existed for so long. The ciety is probably the mostorganized.It would seem to the capabilities of dealingwith this MR. GIVINGS: Theestablishment. me that they have problem. We have the capabilitiesof dealing with other MR. LEWIS; Mr. Smith. problems. Why not this one?

MR. SMITH: First, I wouldlike to say to the youth MR. LEWIS: Mr. Patterson. leaders that I think all of us arehere to learn today, to follow up on this par- that general direction. As MR. PATTERSON: I did want and my question is aimed in ticular line of question. TheDepartment of Labor in a I watched that film and asI listened to our first re- that been doing a lot of talk- survey of Detroit, afterthe riots there, determined marks, it seems to me we have job and was earning $120 a like, but I would be interested the average rioter had a ing about what we don't week. The averagemanufacturing wage in Detroit was in getting an answer from anyoneof you as to what your But they were making personal aspirations are. If wecould wave a magic $150. So they were under that. world you would like to have,the average national wagein manufacturing. wand and create the kind of stability, Mr. just what are you trying toachieve? Many of us had thought that economic Barry, as you mentioned, wasthe key to this problem. MR. LEWIS: Who would like totake that question? What happened in Detroit? Mr. Barry. MR. BARRY: Well, I think thatDetroitit is probably That is a very idealistic difficult.I don't want to imply that moneyis an answer MR. BARRY: I will startoff. job, he would go out and question, and I don't think it is an easy oneto answer. that if a man didn't have a burn the stores and things. I think that it is hard to answer. thing of powerless- about economic develop- I think it is a psychological We in Pride are talking $150, they want respect as ment, trying to create aself-help, self-respect kindof ness. Even if they made people; they wanted to be looked on aspeople who had program, where we cangive dignity and pride to the individual because he is a humanbeing, not because he something. The whole syndromeandMary and Jimmi can is black. of seeing something that Second, we are talking aboutproviding enough eco- add to thisof frustration, doesn't have to worry doesn't quite existlike beingclose to the water, and nomic stability where a man italthough you are quite about where his next meal iscoming from, or where he yet you can't quite drink is going to sleep tonight.And we are talking about a close to it. talking about a way It is the syndrome offrustration, and in a society house that is comfortable. We are That is the way I of life that is commensuratewith what we say. We talk where you do not have any power. about democracy. Let's preachit and practice it. would explain it.

9 something that we canstill MISS RICHARDSON: I would go alittle further. Token-fact that hopefully, there is sohring the problem. do about the problemsthat we face. ism is not a way of Maybe a lot of the ladies andgentlemen in the that I not a way? audience came basicallyfor the same reason, MR. PATTERSON: What is didto get a rest. But it is notimportant to me whether the people out there are orare not partof the MISS RICHARDSON: I amtalking in terms of people, important to me is, in their own black Establishment. The thing that is when they really don't have power that they become impotent community. We own nothingin our communities like Phil said in the film, own homes. The over black lives.And in this conference we canwork throughout this country, not even our localities, them. And our mortgages are out, so you can takeback to your cities and mortgage company holds which black people canbegin to become twice as high as yours willbe. That is tokenism. a program by involved in the main streamand in the operation ofthe American society in a much moremeaningful way than MR. LEWIS: Dr. Clark. they have been in the past. whether of a comment than a ques- This is the objective.I am not concerned DR. CLARK: This is more Establishment is racist.It really tion. But it is one which Ifeel impelled to make. I the people or the think that the answer to Mr.Smith's question is found doesn't matter. in this very situation inwhich we are involved. If you MR. LEWIS: It seems this is animportant question, look at this audience, youwill get part of your answers. anomoly, because here and I would like to hearfrom other members of the And my own position here, is an then we will come back to I am on this side of thetable, when actually America youth panelists first, and really means me to be on theother side of the table. you, Mr. Johnson. Richardson. And it may be that I am onthis side of the table, be- Mr. Barry, or Miss cause of what MissRichardson calls tokenism. repeat the question? Ihad it The fact is that this is anextraordinarily sick so- MR. BARRY: Would you ciety, sick almost to the pointof hopelessness, sick and lost it. with the profound systemicdisease of racism, which which we MR. LEWIS: Mr. Johnson'squestion was: Do you feel we see exemplifiedin this very meeting in committed to doing something? are attempting todiscuss the situationandthe issue that this audience is the issue really be- Do you feel the politicalstructure in this country is before us, really, the cureand about the problem? fore us today is whether there is a curefor a disease committed to doing something that has been permitted toprevail for so long as even It may be that this, in a very MR. BARRY: I can saythis.I can only go on the past. to be considered normal. Basically, it makes a lot of noiseand a lot of talk about complex way, Mr. Smith, isthe answer to your ques- I can't speak for thesespecific gentlemen and ladies tion. it. here.I don't know them. Butthe structure that they represent has not been responsivein the past to our MR. LEWIS: Mr. Johnson. needsand, in fact, theyhave not been impotentthey have been verypowerfuland as Jimmi said, Ihope MR. JOHNSON: Severalpeople have mentioned such is get to the pointwhere and "the establish- what we can do at least here things as "white power structure" black people in this country canat least begin to con- ment" and "the system"here already this morning.Do trol their own communities,and have some senseof you believe thatthese gentlemen out here,representing believe they really want to controlling their own lives. American businessdo you I don't know yet, I can't passa judgment yet.Hope- do something for Negroes inthis country? Do you be- believe that the po- fully, by tomorrow, I cangive you more specific an- lieve they are committed? Do you is an indication of where weare, litical system is really there for youto work through? swers, but if the past that is bad. Any of you? I hope everybody who camehere is committed to think you will get rid ofthis MR. LEWIS: Who would like to answerit? making a change. I don't racism in this day and ahalf, or the next 25 years,but first, that I came to Wash- if we can get rid of someof the manifestations of it, MR. GIVINGS: Let me say, done something here. ington and appeared beforethis conference for two then I think we will have I reasons. First, Ifigured it was about the only way Richardson, would you have a com- could get a vacation fromMilwaukee and get a little MR. LEWIS: Miss rest. ment? And second, because as aworker in a black com- MISS RICHARDSON: Yes, Iwould say that everyonein munity, who is trying todeal with and solve certain remember the rise and fallof types of problems, I have,in my own conception, the this audience had better

10 the Roman Empireand this nation has a choice of MISS RICHARDSON: I would also like to say that you rise or fall. And y ou are part of this mass confusion have to stop giving us some leaders. You have to rea- and you are not any longer just subunits that look into lize that the people we are talking about constituted the the ghetto areas. They are a part of your country, and most organized persons in this whole country. Any if you don't wake up and take your stand as to what is time you can live off the money that a dog can't live going on in this country, then you are responsible for onthey have to know how to organize. You have to whatever happens in every part of this country. look to those people to tell you what they want, and what So, I believe that you really have no choice but to they can get. You have to find out whether you fit in. be concerned. No one giving us leaders, so you will have someone to speak to. Then you will get down to the problem. MR. LEWIS: Mr. Johnson, do you have a follow-up to that question, or do you want to say anything else? MR. LEWIS: Mr. Barry and Miss Richardson, you both spoke in rather broad generalities about the kind of MR. JOHNSON: I guess I was trying to put myself programs that ought to be done. You said, Mr. Barry, Dr. Clark talked about different sides of the tableI that we spent our money badlyhaven't spent it wisely. was trying to put myself on that sidethe audience I sort of wonder if you have anything specific in and I was wondering if I were a representative of mind about a program that might to more beneficial American industry, what I should go back to tell my than the programs that have been sponsored heretofore. company about what we should do that we are not doing. Is it spending more money? What kind of pro- MR. BARRY: Let me give you a specific example. Take grams do we lack? We have in the past few years ini- the whole welfare system in America as an example of tiated a great many programsbillions of dollars be- how we spend our money in the wrong way. ing spent.I am trying to get the discussion going, so Take public housing, there should be a plan or pro- we can understand. gram. First of all, you shouldn't call it public housing. There should be a plan or a program where people who MR. BARRY: Maybe the best thing then is to keep live in low-income housing should be able to purchase these mikes open. That way we can follow it more and own the house and ought to be subsidized like we naturallykeep all the mikes open.If we do that, we subsidize other housing. can have interchangenot just a dead kind of thing. I think in terms of the cities you have not developed I think the point is that we spend our money in and created jobs.I mean, in the highly technological the wrong places. We are spending our money on the society, such as ours, we have many people without wrong kinds of programs. The program that we spent work. What do you do with them? our money on for the last ten years, and we have been You talk about the things like the guaranteed in- actively involved, has not helped the mass of the blacks come. The main thing I am talldng about is not neces- in this country.It has not helped the 90 per cent.It sarily always respect but, an attitude of how you give has helped, basically, the people who got the education, the moneyhow you create a feeling of the sense of who got the initiative, who were organized. But if you dignity. You can give me a million dollars, if you want look in every major city, you find 90 per cent are not to, but if you don't give it to me in the right way and the the ones who benefitted from this. program wasn't structured so I had a lot to say about In fact, the situation in America is getting worse. how it went on, I wouldn't be satisfied with the money. The unemployment rate is the same as it was 10 years It is an attitude that I think Americans have to go ago. In Washington, for instance, the school dropout over to. They can't control our lives. And you have to rate is 53 per cent, and it is going up every year. You create a program where there is some dignity and re- discover that black people are losing. spect. So you are not like a master-and-slave kind of So, our money has not been spent in the right thing. Here is a master giving you millions of dollars, placesthat is what I am sayingnot only that business and you have to act like a slave ought to act, because has not. We spent our money on the space program, onyou have a million dollars. everything else, except our cities that need the money. That is what I am saying. We need billions of MR. LEWIS: I think you have cleared it up a little bit. dollarsnot just spend them in the citiesnot just give Mr. Givings, would you like to add something? to them for any old program, but a program that will get to the hopelessness and frustrations of 90 per cent. MR. GIVINGS: Yes, I would. That is what the money has to be spent for. The money I think that one of the things that the people in the has to be given without any strings, without control. audience should keep in mind, and that would be, in re- You have to give it to us and let us spend it the way we turning to their own communities, giving the kind of think will solve the problem. The problem has not beensupport in dollars and cents that has to go to programs solved by the way you have been doing it in the past. that are developed within the communities themselves.

11 developing dignity If you deal with that realityfirst, the reality of This is part of the whole concept of to deal with my funding programs that the people in thecommunities yourselves, then you might be able have developed, which is the importantthing. problem. And I would like to keep stressingthis, as we go onwithout the strings attached. MR. LEWIS: Dr. Clark. The 0E0 program in this countryhas failed pri- the program is DR. CIARK I would like toaddress this to the entire marily because the people to whom that underneath what is geared are asked to give up theirlives, practically, in panel. Am I hearing correctly that is geared to so- being said about possible solutions,that the integration order to participate in a program critical stage of the de- called self-help, and the programitself is beginning struggle has now moved to the to eat away at the lives of theindividuals involved. sire for integration of thepolitical decision-making 0E0 has required that poor people arefeasibly power that reallyaffects the lives of people? feasible partici- I know that on the surfacethe words that come how is it saidI think the maximum to be rather ex- pation. What is feasible in the blackcommunity? through seem to suggest that, or seem not Sar- plicit in black nationlist separatism,but when you go Only black people can decide that, not 0E0, the surface, many of you gent Shriver, or anyone. So,the programs that are beneath these words, beneath developed that come out of that blackcommunity have Mr. Givings and Mr. Barryhave this morningthey are given dollars without the talking about power and control overthe destiny or the to be supported, have to be have been previously strings attached from the white community. lives of people whose interests ignored. would you like to add Am I correct in interpretingthis as another level MR. LEWIS: Miss Richardson, the decision-making, inte- something to that? of integration, integration in gration in the effective useof power? MISS RICHARDSON: Yes.I was just thinldng about what happened when we went in the streetsof Philadel- MR. LEWIS: Do you understandthe question, panel? And we were phia, talking about the poverty program. this. People get confused by telling the people that Johnson had justdeclared war MR. BARRY: Let me say talked about integration, but I question a war on poverty.I know what names and labels, and we on poverty. social and political type of in- war means in thiscountry. it has been primarily the I started writ- tegration.I thinkcan I use anotherword, call it par- In terms of what needs to be done, economic term. We have ing some notes here real quickly,about what is going ticipation, which to me is an throughout the country, and how not been able to participatein an economic sense, and on in the black ghettos is very simple. Wherever you businessmenhave sort of pushed us in this effort. I think the reality of America peoplethey cannot own you have a whitecommunityand facts and figures show One thing I think about my in, that may or may homes because of the income they have.Therefore theythisand then a few Negroes move lot of not be all right. But assumeit is all right. Then, when- don't have the real pride of ownership. I see a cent, slum houses being done over in a programthat they ever the percentagegets to be about 25 or 30 per have. This means we are going tolive here because you find that in a yearthat community becomes all the streets. We don't really care black. we don't want you on system, whenever where you live.It doesn't look good. You also discover in the school realizing you start puttingblacks in the school, after a while, if If the banks of this country would start blacks, in another yearit what they are doing by not helpingpeople with mort- there are 30 or 35 per cent they happened here in Washingtonitbecame 90 per cent. gagesand if the poverty people, the programs the reality of America, it have, meant what they want to do, whatthey would do And if you are talking about decent jobs could get is that we are going to have,for a long time, a segre- is see that some people who have like it or not, if it is going houses without the high mortgages thatthe banks hold. gated society. Whether you this country, insur- to be segregated, let's make itthe best we have. Let's In every poverty area throughout have! Let's make the ance is impossible.If you work in a poverty area, if make the education the best we black, your car has to have twice as houses the best houses. you are white or Basically, the much insurance. This is impossible. America is a segregated society. the black com- Jews live together, the Poles livetogether, the Italians Businessmen would like to help in and work in an inte- munity. They tell me that theirinsurance is now triple live together. But they come out grated society and go back to theirhomes. what it was before. I am saying here Now, you know this simply meansif you live in a That is the reality of America. for you, but somebody else let's strive to open things up. Let's getthe best things poverty area, it is poverty It is the white people's is getting rich, and Ithink a lot of your companies sit- for the blacks. There we are. the companies that fault that they leave, not ours.They leave the com- ting out there in that audience are system. They leave are getting rich. munity. They leave the school

12 everything. So, in addition to the political andsocial MISS RICHARDSON: Yes, it is there.Ever since I was thing, I am talking about participating in theeconomic born I was aware of it.I am not ready to change yet, thingsin the decision-makingputting people inposi- because I don't know white folks and Idon't think white tions where they can make decisionsabout things eco- folks know me, and I don't have time to dealwith their nomically and not talk about having real power,which realityof knowing them. I am trying to dealwith the we don't have. reality that I can't ccntrol me. That is the essence of what I have to say. MR. GIVINGS: I think possibly where we maybe getting MR. LEWIS: Miss Richardson, do youhave a comment off the track is that first Marion said veryclearly on this? America has always been a separate societyitdoes separate the two races. That is noproblem. The prob- MISS RICHARDSON: I think Marion answered itfor me.lem that America is having today isthat black people are saying, "We realizethat, but we just want to control MR. GIVINGS: I will accept Mr. Barry's answer. and have our own power base withinthe community." The question is power, not integration anylonger. MR. LEWIS: What the panel issayingthey have said If we make any mistakes in our movementfor freedom it much better than I shallbut Iwould like to repeat in this country, it is because wetalk about integration. it, because it should be underscored.When you talk That was a part of the brainwashing,assimilating sys- about integration, you are not talking aboutthe inter- tem, that was put into us. mingling of the racesyou are talkingabout full par- At this point in time, now that we realizethat, that ticipation in the full-scale of Americanlife, in the no longer is really important,to integrate with the white business community, in government, in the areasof system, but that what we have to haveis a base of power decision-making, and I think that is what is meantby from which we can negotiate with thatwhite system. the term "integration." Then we begin to solve problems. We arenot at this Do you agree, Dr. Clark? point concerned in our living next doorwith white folk that is notI think Malcolm said it quitewellthat DR. CLARK: This is consistent withthe warnings of doesn't have anything to do withliberation. It deals the Kerner Reportthat the despairof the young Negro more with going back onthe plantation. We are not is a contributing factor in thepossibility of America interested in that any longer. Our baseis to establish settling for a black and white society. power in black communitiesby which we can negotiate and become a meaningful part ofthis so-called democ- MR. LEWIS: Would you rephrase that question?I racy. That is much moreimportant, and that is the didn't quite understand it. thing we should be addressingourselves to. Mr. Barry has DR. CLARK: Well, if I understand what Just look around saidthat all attempts at integration invarious institu- MR. BARRY: Look at our community. failed, and it then fol- you. See the policedepartment which is a problem. tions in our society have so far That is a problem. We have no control overthat police lows that the young Negro is now askingfor participa- and is department. It runs rampant and wild, like amad dog tion and control over the Negro communities, sometimes, and the whole thing is that. Look atthe willing to accept Negro institutions, if hecontrols economic situation, the economic system.Look at the them. Look at the cloth- Does this mean that this gives credenceto the grocery stores in our conimunities. that Americaing stores.I am not talking about the storesdowntown. warning of the Kerner Commission Report here in Washington, black and white We are talking about the stores like is, in fact, moving toward accepting buy a television set for $400, communities, quite separate? on 7th Street, where you which you can buy for $250 somewhereelse. if you look at MR. LEWIS: Do you understand the question,Miss We don't have control over that. Or who can come into our community. Anybody can come Richardson? into our communityanybody can come inand do anything they want to do. MISS RICHARDSON: Yes, I do. We are sayingif we have it, let us havecontrol will be there. You can say, "Okay, DR. CLARK: And is the Negrowilling to accept this? over it, because it let's not do it that way. Let's.push it open, openthe has ever been society." MISS RICHARDSON: I don't think there all the fair country.It has always been black The reality is very simple. Look at any difference in this housing in this country. Look at New York,California. and white. Look at everywhere you have that. Thosethings have DR. CLARK: Not movingtoward itit is there. not opened the society up.

13 That is what has caused frustration. We have been MR. BARRY: I think George Wallace tells a lot of sold something that didn't happen. We have been toldiftruth, quite frankly. you do this, this will happenif you signthis petition and you have a fair housing law, then blackpeople can moveMISS RICHARDSON: As a Northerner, I will add some- into Maryland and Virginia. That hasn't happened. thing here. We should now deal with the reality of life as it is. I am strictly from Philadelphia, born and raised We will have Shaw, Upper Cardozowe will have the there.I don't see much difference between the South South Side, Harlem, Bedford-Stuyvesant. Let's make and the North. The only difference is that you South- that community the best community that we have. Let'serners are a little bit more outspoken thanthe North. make the housing the best housing that we can have. We have always had this separation in theNorth, too. That is what I am trying to say. And I think our ghettos in the North are just as bad as That sounds harsh, but it is the truth. It is incon- your black places in the South.And I don't think we can sistent with our American dream and philosophy of divide the country, saying South and North, because, brotherhood. But with the ghettos, we don't have it. actually, it is the same all over.

MR. PATTERSON: Mr. Barry and the rest of the panelMR. GIWNGS: Mr. Patterson, I think we should be very I grew up in the South. Separate but equal was what the careful as to whom we address ourselves when we talk old Southern segregationists said, and I seem to hear about people who have attempted to deal with the prob- this panel say this. lem. We have spent since 1954 attempting to integrate The way in which former Governor Wallace wants schools on the understanding that segregated education to deal with it and the way we are attempting to deal is inherently unequal. We have attempted to make our with it are two very great extremes. He is not inter- cities an integrated society. And admittedly, we haven'tested in, has never been interested in and never will be made much progress, but are you now giving up on in- interested in black welfare and black power. And I tegration? Do you think the old Southern segregationistthink you should remember thatand the racist, segre- was right? gationist of the South will never be interested in black power. MR. BARRY: Mr. Patterson, I am from the South, too, They separated their society and did it on the basis and I am from Memphis, Tennessee, and I grew up in of their own institutions, on the basis of their ownfear a segregated society.It wasn't hardly equal at all. of the Negroes, and of black people and of their eco- You see, the bus I rode on in the back was not nomic base, which provided slavery for them to build hardly equal at all.I am saying this.It is very simpletheir Southern societyso let's keep that clear. to me. I am not a racist.I am against racism, but As a Southerner I respect you, but let's not use it. the reality of America is that we are going to have The problem we are i'alldng about in this country is as those segregated communities, whether we like it or much a Southern problem as it is a Northern problem. not, and the best thing you can do is make them best. I think you have to remember that we have tosolve that It doesn't mean I want to come here and participate.It as an American problem, and not as aNorth-South doesn't mean that Negroes won't go to work for IBM or problem. And when you decide you want to fight the war these other companies, AT&T. In fact, I would have again, you do that with those people out in the audience, more of them working there. It doesn't meanthey won'tbecause they are white and we are black. work within a white society and work with white people. But basically, America is a segregated society. MR. JOHNSON: I would like to get away from thephilos- You can't tell the difference between a Jew who is ophy for a moment and ask a specific and practical white and an Italian who is white, because they are bothquestion of Miss Richardson. You are working with white. It is not as clear-cut. But look at America. 3000 gang youths in Philadelphia. Let's deal with it.It is already segregated. Look at Atlanta, Georgia. You are from Atlanta. I have lived MISS RICHARDSON: Yes. there and been there. Look at that community. You will find certain pockets of certain kinds of people living together there. MR. JOHNSON: What are you doing? What is the state Go to New York, or Milwaukee. You find the Polishof those youths? Where are they going? And what is live together. The Irish live together. The Italians going to be done for those people? And how are you live together. The Jewish people live together. People operating with them? segregate themselves anyway. I don't see how we can get away from that pattern. MR. LEWIS: Before you begin that, I thhik it might be better for all of us, if you would define what you mean MR. PATTERSON: This is what George Wallace says. by a gang group. I don't think we understand.

14 MISS RICHARDSON: Well, I would like to have that To us this is a problem for the gang, and it has to question open for the other tw) panelists, because they be fought. The gangs must band together as a group to also work with gangs. fight the system, the system that creates racism. I think that answers your question. MR. LEWIS: Do you mind if we get a clarification of that? MR. LEWIS: I think it does, if we don't have anyone who wants to add something to that. MR. JOHNSON: Fine. MR. BARRY: I have one point. MISS RICHARDSON: The gang is the social club of the black people, black ghetto. They cannot havea buildingMR. LEWIS: Yes. they cannot afford thatwhich would be up-to-date and have modern equipment, as most of the social clubs MR. BARRY: We are workingWashington is not as have. They meet and argue among themselves, like notorious for its gangs as other cities you do in your social clubsand they try to outdo each other, like you do in your social clubs. MISS RICHARDSON: Watch it! Mostly, a gang is a gang because it is calledso for self-preservation within a ghetto. No self-respecting MR. BARRY: Like Philadelphia. youth in the black ghetto would go to a school in another I know a little bit about Chicago. area without gang memberssome of the members of his gang being therebecause of the fact thatyou know MISS RICHARDSON: Let's talk about Chicago. the society is sick and it breeds prejudice and racism. You have two elements of poor blacks who feel they MR. BARRY: It is a way of life, of banding together must go at each other, because there is nothing else to for protection. In some instances, they commit crimes do. What we are doing with the gang kids of Philadel- and hit people on the head. phia is that we are motivating them to help themselves Since September, when we have been working with and their families. them, we have had only 2 instances where the young men The most recent thing that we have donewe q.re have gotten into difficulty with the police. Even though known as the first group of poor folks who came to they have had charges like robbery, auto theft, house- Washington and raised hell with the Labor Department breaking, and these kinds of things, we have gotten them about the poverty program. Our cry wasif itwas for together to understand one thingthey want respect and the people, let us form our own committee. want a job given themwe create respect. We say to The elections held in Philadelphia on the poverty them, in order to get respect you have to give it.In program were the idea of the gang kids of Philadelphia. order to give it, you have to respect yourself. In order Again, experts got into it and the election turned out to to respect yourself, you have to know about yourself. be tokenism. So we teach them something about cur history, so The gang kids are also working on the problem of they can know where we came from. You will be sur- housing. They go out, and they help their neighbors. prised at the motivation they get, how they feel about If there is a woman who lives in a bad housesay there themselves. That is the kind of people we are working is a violation on that house, we make sure they fall with and the kinds of things we are trying to do with through a hole in the house, and they don't miss the them. violations, and we fight. We have also been very effective in terms of jobs. We have been attackingmany MR. GIVINGS: The only thing I can add in terms of companies in the cityand in terms of the kind ofem- what has been said at this point would bein Milwaukee, ployment that we need and why many of the gang kids our effort would be to take the gang and use the struc- that go on these jobs never stay. ture that the gang already has to provide an entree into We have all kinds of problems like this. We are dealing with social, political and economic problems in attacking the court procedures in this country. We the community. Hopefully, one of the ways in which we have cases like one young fellow who witnessed a homi- see ourselves doing this is by organizing the youth on cide, turned around and repeated it to the judge, which a community basis, maldng them more responsive and is something gang kids never do, and then was jailed responsible to their communityin developing things himself for being on the scene, when it was done. within that community that are missing. We feel that in We fought that case, and when we fought that, the this way, what we do is to bring closer the realities that judge came up with two alternatives. He would either the system is subject toand we have to develop our be accused of the homicide himself or join the service. own system to talk about the destruction, and many The young fellow decided to join the service. He was times this is what the youth gangs are doing. Just told two days ago, "Now that you have enlisted, until merely talking about the destruction of the system they call you up, you will go to jail." that has its foot on their necks, doesn't always solve the

15 problem. Our question is what kind of system will take they are and how they think. We are trying to give you its placeand that we have to constantlybegin to dean idea of the kind of thinking. velop a system by which black people will beable to be Let me say this. What I have said certainly rep- governed by their people. resents what I feel but it doesn't speak for every gang Gangs are important because they are like primar-person in America, because we can'tdo that, either. iesas the Mafia developed in its ownrealm, so do But what I am trying to do is give you areflection and blacks develop, and we take that, and we securethe attitude of how I feel, and how some of the menI work black community with that.That is one of the things wewith feel, so you can understand that, too. have to keep in mind, the security of theblack people. So, we are trying to set the stage, so you can see That community has to be there, and the gangshave to where we are, and the next step is how do we go from be there. there. We are still not convinced that things are asseri- MR. LEWIS: With that background,Mr. Johnson, would ous as they are. You are still notconvinced that things you rephrase yourquestion? have deteriorated to the point they have inAmerica, because, basically, a man will not condemn himself. It MR. JOHNSON: That is fine.I want to get the point is hard for us to condemn ourselves, for you tocondemn where they thought something constructive was coming yourselves to let the thing get to where it is.I think it out of your work in a positive way.I think they an- is your fault primarily.I am trying to set the stage, to swered that. see where we are, so the next stepwill see some specific solutions. MR. LEWIS: I think they have, too. All three of us have some specific ideas as to how I would like to go now, to Mr. Smith. to solve these problems, if you are listening.

MR. SMITH: As I watched these film clips from MR. LEWIS: Mr. Patterson, do you have a questionfor Newark, I was struck by the words "sterile dialogue" the panel? and I hope that we can perhaps move into a construc- Mr. Johnson. tive area here.I would like to ask a question.I know it is an extremely difficult one. But I think all of us MR. JOHNSON: I did so want to get into the areaof the are sincerely interested in the viewpointsof our pan- police problem, but I am afraid that will take alittle elists on specifics of what ought to be done, and how while. Let's ask Miss Richardson aboutPhiladelphia. ought it to be done. What can we take back to our Do you really think the police are opposed toNegroes? communities? What steps should be taken today in the We heard a lot of talk about brutality and MarionBarry views of you youth leaders to help solve this problem, said, "running like a mad dog." Do you feel thatway? because this is what we are really here for? How will How do you feel about that, Miss Richardson? we solve this problem? Whatshould we do? And how do we do it, in your view? MISS RICHARDSON: You shouldn't ask me that.Rizzo is my commissioner. I hope I don't hurt anybody,but MR. GIVINGS: I feelwe are running an hour and a I am known to speak what I feel.If you are really con- half into this conference and trying to find solutions at cerned about Philadelphiathat has just given usthe this early stage may be idealistic. As we develop into opening to start the revolution in Philadelphiaour the conference and answer questions, some answers police department is the worst in the country.When- might come out. To throw out a blanket answer is very ever a man says he is going todeal with kids 16 and 17 unrealistic. with tanks, I question what kind of war on poverty you are talking about. MR. BARRY: What I have tried to doas have Mary Our commissioner made this statement, andhe was and Jimmiis at least give you a picture of what it is praised by people throughout the country. He hasbeen like where we are fa America, and how we feel about given credit for not having a riot last year in the city. where we are. No one individual can have that credit. The credit came As Jimmi said, I taink specific answers can come to all the people of Philadelphia who are stilltalldng as we go, but to come to the sameconclusion about the with white folks in Philadelphia. analysis of the problemfirst, you see the problem one I consider Rizzo dangerous. He is the best organ- way and we see it another way. izer for black revolution, I knowhim andWallace. I think we have to realistically deal with the fact And as long as you have our commissioner and police- that we have to look at the problem and view the prob- men who belong to the hate groups,running loose in the lem, if possible the same way, then I think we will get streets, you can expect whatever will happen inthis some solutions that we can all look at andtake back. country. I don't believe Hitler is dead. I believe heis The problem in America is white people still do in Philadelphia. not understand the black community, do not know who I think that answers your question.

16 MR. PATTERSON: May I follow that point upby askingple in that communityand I am sure that this is not any of you to explain to thoseof us who do not live in just the case in Milwaukee, but is the case in many the black ghettos, what it is that you meanspecifically communities. by police brutality? Do you mean a manhitting you Police brutality and harrassment, as shown inhis- over the head with abilly club? Or are there other tory, kind of wears a mask, and the mask isbeing re- things you mean by police brutality, as you seeit from vealed again, as it was with many Jews who werebeing where you live? killed and systematically destroyed. There was a process taking place in Germany tobegin to eliminate the MISS RICHARDSON: I will give you oneincident. ThereJews.I think that process is beginning to takeplace is a man who came from Georgiafour years ago to in this country. Philadelphia. He was walking his dog. Andthere We are much closer to it than you think. We see was a Puerto Rican woman.She got scared because a it constantly. But I think you have begun tolook in drunk walked up the street.It happened he lived three these communities and find out what these police de- doors from Mr. Fitzgerald. The police showed up on partments are doing. the scene and decided f,o arrest the drunk.Mr. Fitz- The fact that our country at this point of time is gerald said, "I will take the drunk home." not concerned about how we deal with theproblems of Mr. Fitzgerald wound up with handcuffs around that situation that creates riots and the problems that his wrists and arms around his throathe wasthrown create rebellion and rebellious acts, but is only con- into the paddy wagon. His son, who waswith him, was cerned about how we control the rioting and how we beaten with a night stick. And Fitzgerald washolleringcontrol the rebellion and rebellious acts, which has in his Southern accent, "What did I dowrong?" broken away and grown from another kind of sickness, The police said, "We will teach you what iswrong."is an example of what we are talking about. The gov- The police said that. When they got him tothe police ernment is supplying the police department with wea- station, they beat himiiiieen whitecopsfrom the endpons. The Mayor of Detroit,Cavanaugh, wants a heli- of the paddy wagon to inside the station. copter or two. Other mayors are trying to getmilitary Mr. Fitzgerald has lost an eye. He is suingthe weapons into their communities todeal with black city, because of this. Our welfare people tell ushe people. can't get on welfare just because of this.This man This is real. This is no joke. Policebrutality used to clean high windows. He is a highwindow washer.and harrassment now will later begin to beoutright He can't do that because of the loss of that one eye.He police murder. is still suffering police harrassment. I believe his wife gets threateningtelephone calls MR. BARRY: Another thing ispsychological. We have to the effect, "We will get you, you nigger.Get back in Washington a police force 80 per cent white,and the to Georgia, where you belong." population in Washington is 65 per cent black. A white That is only one of hundreds every othermonth policeman will come on the corner and seeabout 10 or that I get in my city.I consider that police harrass- 15 young men, "dudes", as we call them, andthey will ment and police brutality. tell them, "Go home. Go somewhere. Get awayfrom here." MR. LEWIS: Mr. Givings, would you like ashot at that? They don't recognize the fact that the men have no home to go to. They have no place for recreation, no MR. GIVINGS: Police brutality andharrassment is a recreation center. Sometimes their homes are sobad real thing in this country.It is not a dream or some- for them psychologically, they want to stay out. thing projected by the black community. The second thing is how you treat people. I have An example in Milwaukee would be that inthe last seen this in Georgetown, a whitesection of Washington, three months there has been a killing of ablack person where I have seen a policeman see a man who wasin- in the Milwaukee community. Theproblemnot Just toxicated, and he is outdrunk. They pick him up and the deathwhich all black people, not only inMilwau- say, "Where do you live?" Andcall a cab for him and kee, but across the country, are beginning to deal put him in the cab and send him home. withbut the fact is that there is nothing that canbe I saw one cop in Georgetown pay the taxi driver done to the police department or to policechiefs in this $1.50. He paid it. country who allow this kind of action to takeplace. On 14th Street and 7th Street, that samAdrunk There is a kind of precedent that will be setthat would be put in the paddy wagon. will allow for the genocide war against blackpeople I have seen officers call him, "Boy" and"Nigger." this coming summer. The fact that there is alaw in And they whack around with the billy clubshitthem in Milwaukee that says you can't register a complaint the head. against the police unless you are a homeowner, pre- That is the kind of thing I am talking about. You vents the black community from beingable to respond act like an alien occupied army that has comein, not to to the kind of things that are happeningto black peo- protect us, but to harrass and intimidate us.

17 policeman in selfwho are out there in the community,with the There is the whole attitude of the here today, trying to rein- some of our poorcommunities. If you call a policeman,grass roots, and who are he never shows up. You reallyneed him. Somebody is terpret what we hear, what we see. have law and I think that you people here canperform those breaking into your home. You have to with the real I have no problem with that.You call a cop, kinds of coalitions in your communities, order. creatively to open up ways to and he gets there an hour later. grass roots, and begin In Southeast Washington there was aspecific case solve problems in your communities. calling the You can do it on a national basis byforging some where a lady got killed while her son was banner of the United police to come. Her husband whohad had some prob- type of organization under the lems, was getting ready to kill her,and the cops didn't States Chamber of Commerce. come, and she got killed. Those are some of the things thathappen, that don'tMISS RICHARDSON: He answeredfor me. happen in Georgetownwest of thepark. I have been there, and I don't see it. MR. BARRY: Let me add a coupleof points.It is your attitude that is veryimportant in terms of your MR. LEWIS: Gentlemen, wewill have a final question own personnelproblems. I think we have to deal with from this panel from Dr. Clark. help and tests in this whole thing alot differentlyand going out and actively recruitingandnot saying that DR. CLARK: I want to getback to the panel's judgmentyou want to recruit5000 hard-core. You have tolearn ofhow do you think the United StatesChamber of Com-and develop ways to do it. We have someideas how to merce could be relevantto improving the predicament do that, too. of the urban poor? Or to put itanother way, how can This is an example. I was talking to abusiness- one improve thepredicament of the urban poor in ways man the other day,of a large company, in this town. that would be profitable toAmerican business and in- He was talking about the problemshe was having with dustry? his servicealp, his maids and janitors. I said, "Have you ever donethis ? Have you ever MR. LEWIS: Who wants to take thatquestion? had a meeting with all yourmaids and janitors and told Mr. Givirgs, you seem to be givingit some thought.them that you appreciate whatthey are doing, that they are a vital part ofthis company?" MR. GIVINGS: I was giving the word"profitable" some And he said, "I never thought aboutthat." thought.I don't know why it has to beprofitable. Now they are beginning to dothat. There are a lot of little things you can do inaddition to what Jimmi DR. CLARK: Because it won't happenotherwise. has said about the money. The mainthing is to increase your contact and yourconferences. We have some MR. GIVINGS: My feeling is that theAmerican society ideaswe know how to developthese projects. Give us is basically surrounded by thealmighty dollar, that is some money, andlet us do it. what this country functions on. If, in fact, industry and the United StatesChamber like to take up phase 2 of about the problems MR. LEWIS: We would now of Commerce are really concerned our morning program.I trust by this time you have that exist in our country, I think what wehave to begin and their dollarsmet the gentlemen next to you,and you have gotten ac- to say to those people who have power quainted, and I trust you planted theseed of a begin- you will support and youwill give to the programs that of a friendship. that are going to begin ning and long-term, solid kind are relevant, to the programs At this point, we will go to thequestions from the to solve problems, and that, as yourunited voice, the until the conclusion States Cham- audience, and we will conduct this people who are members of the United of this morning's session. ber of Commerce, will pool ordevelop on their own The first one is for all funds going, they see I have a number of cards. base, from which they see their three of you. Does the welfare systemhelp or hurt their money for support going. people in the ghetto? And how? People here today, if they choose todo so, could form a base of funding that wouldallow money to reach that really have laid out some MISS RICHARDSON: I feel verystrongly that the wel- your urban communities, that was made programs for solving problems.Or that they can leave fare system is a back-breaking system and begin to to completely take away thepride of the black woman here going into their own communities, know how many of you know look at more creative ways in which they can openup in the ghetto area. I don't their communities how the system works. job areas, in contacting people in into your who are really getting close to the grassroots, the in- In my city, a social worker can come problemspeople house, look into your closets,and check if you have a digenous people, and dealing with investigate like Marion Barry, who is close tothem,and like my- brand new television set. They want to

18 how you got it.Your children must live within the bud- That eliminates the natural kinds of urges and get. One 11101I)Cflt that yov go out of the budget, you are associations women have. They have to go out and cut off assistance. carry on natural biological kinds ofthings that we have I consider this a form of slavery, because you to deal with, outside the home. must do as you are told, or you won't get money.This As Mary says, it is degrading.It doesn't give you to me means that you can't have pride.I know many hope of developing and getting off of welfare.In Wash- recipients who cannot live off the welfare that is given ington, if you get a job, your rent goes up.It is some- them, and go out and get day work.It means if they times to your advantage not to work, because you can are found out, their assistance iscut. They are told live at a cheaper rate. that, "You don't know. You just don't do those typesof things." MR. LEWIS:I would like to go on to another question, If you go into a DPA office, the first thing you are which is a comment. The author of this question is a met with is hostility, like I am giving you my money, very famous man in baseball circles,whose name I and you better do as I say, or else. won't mention, but he says:I doubt very much if the No DPA recipient is called "Miss" or "Mrs."They audience really understands the difference between as- are "Lulu, look here, youdon't do those things." pirations and possibilities for a poor, black man as "Lulu, I am going to come see you." opposed to those for a poor white man.I wonder if I am sure you won't want your wife caught inthat someone would try to take that up. predicament. Our black males don't like it. DPA, as we call the Department of Public Assist- MR. BARRY: I will start, and I am sure Mary and ance in our area, is a sick partof your society.It is Jimmi will want to add to it. not to better a person, so much as it is todegrade I think that the poor white person, deep in the back them, and you can never stand up on your own twofeet. of his head, is the thought"I don't know of any white person who is poor because he iswhite, but I do know MR. GIV1NGS:I would have to agree very strongly of some blacks who are poor because they are black." with Mary here. And the only thing that I could say to I think in the back of the minds of poor whites that is that the Department of Public Welfare is not that I know, is the thought"If I get an education anddo trying to solve problems or to take people offwelfare. all right, I can always get me a job, and I can escape It serves as a strong mechanism in our society to into the white society.I am not immobile.I can move increase dependence of the people who are on it.And from Appalachia to New York, get some job training I think that an example of this is that we findourselves and become a part of the white society." with an educational system that does not try to utilize Whereas, black people can never think that. We or develop skills. They shouldeducate social workers have the feeling, regardless of how good we do or how to go out and work on the bad psychologicaleffects that hard we work, there is still the barrier of blackness welfare has on the black communityso they can't con- to stop us at some point along the line. That is the tinue to just kind of perpetuate the problem andkeep it way I see the differencewhite pooralways know that alive and keep it going. they can move up. They can keep going. They are I think the Department of Public Welfare, in many, not kept down because of their color. Black people many ways, is the safeguard for a systemto keep those can't get that feeling. people who are oppressedand keep them humble and keep them beneath manhood and womanhoodand it MR. GIVINGS: First, let me say that I think also we serves as a fine tool for a racist society orracist are repeating ourselvesbut Marion isright.I would concept. like to add one thing to thatthe poor whites in this country have, by virtue of their whiteness, a way in MR. LEWIS: Mr. Barry, would you have a comment on which they can proceed and a way in which they can that? travel. Psychologically, the roads are open. Blacks are, in fact, given a closed road, from MR. BARRY: Just to add to what Jimmi and Mary birth right on through the society. No doors are ever have said. The welfare system in this country puts opened. Consequently, the initiative, the drive and what the burden on the individualit makes people think it has to be established at an early stage in the same is the greatest thing in the world to be poor.They process cannot be easily given to blacks.It can be don't understand it is the system that we live in that easily given to whites, whether they are poor or rich. causes that to the largest extent. It is a shame that we find it happeningthat, in In Washington, there is the thing called the man- this society, the most overt racism that exists comes in-the-house rule.If you are on welfare in Washing- from the poor white, who is constantly unaware of it, ton and the welfare investigator can come in anytime but his condition constantly is being used as a tool by a he wants tomidnight, noon, or nightif he finds a power system and Establishment to make life eventhat man in your house, you are cutoff. much more difficult for black people.

19 the poor whitesMR. GIVINGS: I would agree with Maryand say also In most urban areas in this country, system, find themselves on the periphery ofblack communities that there has to be an honest communication racists of the black whereby the television can be used. and are in most cases, the overt struggle in community, but they are being usedthey aretools, An example would be the civil rights this country to they are pawns, they are being used. the South when it was necessary for that some day poor make some kind of honest commitmentabout the vio- It would be, hopefully, my idea hap- whites and blacks would join arevolution in this coun- lenceat least preventing the violence that was would cause in-pening in the Southblack peoplebeing beaten, using trythat, in effect, would cause change, if the But, as they are now positioned,they electric cattle prods on black marchers. I think depth change. people had portrayed an don't have that opportunitythey arebeing used as well news media and the television honest picture of this, so that, in effect, theconscience as black people. of America could come to the fore and say, "Wehave to do something about this problem." MISS RICHARDSON: I would show thedifference by It seems very interesting now that in reverse, using the DPA system which is yourwelfare system in when Stokely Carmichael got up and said,"Black this country. There are very few blacksocial workers power," that the only thing that thetelevision people who go to visit poor white families.I have heard of were willing to show wasStokely when he was enraged cases and have been involvedin cases where a poor and emotional and said, "Black power,"but when it white woman will go to her DPA office andrequest a came for him to give alogical and rational breakdown white social worker, and request the timethat social of what he meantan intellectual onemaybethis is worker will pay a visit. This is not donewith poor the problem, maybe the news media can'tdeal with blacks. We can't do it at all. intellectual ideasmaybe at that point, theycouldn't I have also seen where a poor white personmight deal with anything that was said. not get her check in time. She will go tothe DPA office An honest and complete picture has to beportrayed, and is given an emergency grant untilthe check comes. and I think television has to be used inthat manner, as I have seen poor black women go withtheir children, it is used in many cases in educationalfilms. because they don't find it possible to getbaby-sitters, and are told that they must wait until aninvestigation MR. BARRY: We discovered that in ourcommunities can be made to see wheretheir checks went to. the news medianot just televisionseemedto like to I call this a form of racism. This is oneof the play upon conflicts.If Jimmi and I have an internal differences between poor whites and poorblacksthat kind of conflict, try to deal with it, and we got adiscus- even though we are on the samelevel of poverty, we sion going, it seems that the newsmedia run to Jimmi are still treated differently. trying to find out about itand then they cometo me and ask me something about itand theyplay up controversy and conflict rather than looking atthose programs that the panel on my left, MR. LEWIS: I would like to say to are doing something. if you want to pop in on the questionoccasionally, you In this city, for instance, I think Pridehas tried to may, but I hope itwill be relative to a question I have do a lot of things. In Philadelphia,Mary is doing things. asked from the audience. I have anotherquestion Jimmi is in Milwaukee. What the newspapersdo is not Television in America today has astrong influence on look at the constructive things. They pick up some the minds of today. How can thetelevision be used to things that happened up hereconflictandreport it. change attitudes and correct ourattitudes? Secondly, I don't think television hastaken a bold step, taken some men and put out somedocumentaries, MISS RICHARDSON: I personally feel thatthe news and shown them to the Americanpeople, so they can see media throughout the country are racist.If they would it.I don't think they have done whatthey ought to be just start telling the truth, insteadof going out to try doing, and they have a long ways to go. to indoctrinate people to their wayof thinking. dis- MR. LEWIS: Since the communicationarts are a part I have had several opportunities to appear on two or three cussion programs and have beeninformed, "Mary, you of my area of concern, I would like to say do it that way. things, one of which is that the imageof the Negro in can't do this this way." Or "You can't sit there You have to do it just this way." America is very bad. It is bad because you And by doing it just that way, I canonly say what and wonderand I have some questionshere that re- millions of dollars you want to hear, and,believe me, it is not the truth. flect your wonderment. We pour be themselves, into the black community every year.We pass special I think, if they would allow people to to be and tell you how they feel regardlessof who might be legislation for these people. And they don't seem and there can doing anything. hurt, you can get a better understanding, this money? be a communication, because that iswhat television is What happens to all this effort and all they say, for, to communicate. And black people look at the picture and

20 "These people keep talking about allthe money they are The advertising agenciesought to be thinking about giving us, they keep talking aboutall the things they it. made that movie are doing for us, and wedon't see anyone getting any- One thing that they did when they where." CLEOPATRAthey were interested in making money. What is missing is the middle-class successstory. Everyone who !mows history knows thatCleopatra was I had an occasion a year or an Egyptian, and was atleast brown, she wasn't white. No one has ever told that. happenthat so ago when a nationalmagazine called me and asked Taose are the kinds of things that me if I would show oneof the photographers around, result in racist kinds of things that go on. because they were doing the storyof the Negro in America. And I said, "Yes, I wouldbe happy to do that."MR. LEWIS: My next question is afamiliar question. I was paid handsomely to directthis young man We have heard it asked many timesby people of good around. will.I would like the panel, if I may, to considerthis But when I met him, I discovered healready knew one. There are dozens ofprojects, programs, aimed what he wanted to photograph. Whathe wanted was an at the urban crisis. How can a concernedprivate citi- old, dirty, shabby lot, where children wereplaying, not zen get involved? What can he dothat is practical well-dressed childrenthe "right" kind ofkids. He and helpful, rather than just engage &n anexercise in wanted a church where they really had thespirit. And idealism? he wanted to watch some of the extremistswho speak I am sure you have all heard that question many on street corners in NewYork, sort of stirring up a times. And I am sure by thistime, you must have de-- group of people. This iswhat he wanted. veloped a pretty good answer to that. And I asked him why he wanted thisthathere was I think the thing that has to be done byindividuals the old stereotype again. on a private basis, or even on acollective basis, in "Well," he said, "this is what I need." many white communities, is tohave coalitions of white I tried to get him interested inpeople who were groups formed. When whitepeople become aware of doing thingsa young writer, a coupleof other people a problem that exists, they can nolonger just deal with but he said, "No, because the whitepeople, if they see the problem in terms of their intellect. Thatproblem Negroes being successful, they won't want tohelp has to be dealt with in terms of meaningfulaction, and them." developments, in the communitywhite community Actually, there is a good, untold story ofmiddle-- groups, white coalition groups, thatdo understand class success in America, and televisionand o her black power, that do support the concept of black power, mass media have ignored thisjust about com letely. as it is organized in black communities.They have If you watch television, you would imaginethe blackto begin to interpret that to the totalwhite commun- population in America might be 1/2 of 1 percent, and ities. most of them would be peoplewho are either going to There has been no problem with the Jews in jail or just getting out. America, and in Germany, except for the fact that the And the impression you have is kind offrighteningrest of the world was silent and bytheir silence they so frightening in fact,that, when we talk about crime in gave consent.If today white communities remain si- the streets, we are talking essentialy about Negro lent, they will be, in effect, saying to the government crimeoverlooking completely the large percentageof the present Administration"You have my consentto crime committed by white people annihilate black communities." You have to begin to And so, the image of the black man inAmerica is organize white power groups in your communitiesthat a very bad one. Andtelevision and radio and other masswill say to the Establishment, "You know you are media generally do not do a great deal to correctthis wrong. You are absolutely wrong.We understand, we erroneous picture. have an understanding in depth of what theproblem is, I think we can moven to the next question. and you have to begin finding ways todeal with the problem, rather than just sitting or exercisingthe thing in your terms of your own intellect." MR. BARRY: I would like to add one point,since we are talking about television.I think about advertising agencies in the same way. For instance,if you watch MISS RICHARDSON: I would like toadd that many the TV, black in this country is a negativeterm of you people sitting in the audiencehave the power to everything you talk about is blackblackmale, black get to those people who will notlisten to the average this or anything. If you watch, you seethe Dodge boys black people in the ghetto area. I wouldlike to see wearing white hats, and this kind of thing. groups starting that wouldinvestigate certain things I think the television people andadvertising men that are going on in black communitiesaround the whom we cater to have a white swan. Everything beautiful ontelevision country. And because these people is white. The cowboys ride whitehorses. They are are your friends, starteducating them to the problem the good guys. The bad guys rideblack horses. and evaluate them and come up withthings, and getting

21 those guys off our backsand you are morecapable of You will find out that is where the forcereally lies getting them off our backs than the restof us are here. in the black community. We can all namecertain I can't get to the mayor of our city. He movestoo groups in Washingtonandall over the country, for that quickly for me. But he moves in the samecircles that matterthat, if they are given large sums of money, you people in the audiencedo. We have a problem and but are not doing the job, are not taking careof the you can tell him about it. businessif you continue to support them, you may ease your conscience,but you won't do anything about MR. BARRY: I would like to differentiatebetween what solving the problems. do and what you can do in terms a private individual can MISS RICHARDSON: I think one thing thatneeds to be of your corporation or businessand thisdeals with will have under-said very, very clearly is that white people the private sort of thing. As Mary says, you can to look within themselves. If you hateblack people, stand and develop the idea that black people in1968 admit it.It is a lot better than holding it inand doing can't believe themselveswe have todevelop leader- white do- people can something, because it is "the thing" to be a ship to do what we want to do, and white gooder. If you do not solve this problemwithin your- privately support that.If you live in Silver Spring or really does not things self, then you will only be someone who Chevy Chase, or in your communitywhen these have a program for black people. come up at lunch, you have tosupport the right of the black people to make decisions amongthemselves for MR. BARRY: Another point is that Ithink a lot of white themselves. people are saying, "Why should I supportsomebody who I think, secondly, when the call goes outfor money curses me out, who says I am aracist? Why should I or for other kinds of things, you cando thatbut I think give my money to a group that doesn'tlike me, or more specifically in someinstances, you can give somedoesn't seem to like me?" expertise. And I think this relates to the realitiesof America One thing we don't have enough of in ourcommunityand one of the realities is that you have tounderstand is people with experience, particularly ineconomics that personality if we are to solve thatproblem, be- and business. So you can give that.But giving that cause people are madenough to do that. After you are expertise has to be done under the leadershipof black cursed out and called a bunch of names, getin there people. and support a program that willalleviate the problem, Third, you can't look at us as monolithicblack. and you will find in the lOng run that itwill work out, You have to look at each program and seewhether it is the curses go out, and what is worthwhile remains. getting at the 90 per centthose I wastalking about That is hard to learn to take, but that isthe re- earlier. ality of where we are. We have had enough programs to dealwith the 10 per cent. MR. LEWIS: The next question is another oneI think Any programs that deal concretely with powerand you have heardbefore. You blame white racists for dignity and strength and awareness for the 90 percent many of the problemswhile at the same time support- are the kinds of programs Ithink you ought to get ining black racism. Isn't theultimate solution a sincere volved in. effort to forego all racism and let us supportthe best leaders, white or black? MR. LEWIS: Would it be safe to say, MissRichardson and gentlemen, what is needed most fromwhite AmericaMR. BARRY: I think you mix it up.Whoever wrote is a commitment to work on theproblems? Is that the questinn is all mixed up.It is like this.If I walk what you are saying? up and hit JimmiGivings in the face, and then he hits me back, he is nothitting me, he is reacting to me. black people MR. GIVINGS:I think that is what we are saying. Let What is happening in this country is that me reiterate what Barry issayingthat is, there are are reacting to racisn.It is not the same thingto many, many programs going on aroundthe country that say black people do notlike white people is the same white people have supported. And theyconstantly ask as white people notliking black peopleblack people themselves this.Evidently, what we have done isn't are reacting to racismof white people, and I think that going to solve the problem. The blacks arestill riotingis where we are.I don't think we equate those things. or still having theirrevolution. Soyou knowI will I don't think we can equate theblack power group with stop pouring in money. the KKK. There is no comparison. Youcan't compare You have to consider what organizations you are a policy to a reaction. pouring money into, what groups of people arereally Nobody told KKK and George Wallace to intimidate down with the grass roots. And you haveto begin to and harrass black people. If black peopledefend them- support black power groups, begin to support groups selves in that harrassment, they aren't in the same who say, "Damn, if you don't give it, then wewill take category. it." That is ray answerthat you can't compare them.

22 MR. GIVINGS: There is going to be rathe.' a contra- MISS RICHARDSON: When he starts getting the rights dictory answer here to what Barry has said. We will you are talking about, and that is the only answer I can talk about it later. givethat I can think of. Let me first say that there are men who are run- We are sitting here now, telling you that we have ning for President of this country and who are racist, never had our own power.I don't think we owe anybody and may win on a racist philosophy. Racism may be a anything until we start getting something. form in which black people can obtain power. You have all kinds of "kooky" groups in the white MR. BARRY: That answers it. societywhy can't we have them in the black society? We are human beings. We are not any different. MR. LEWIS:I think that maybe we ought to try to dig We started off with a push toward integration, a into that a little more. push toward brotherly love, and all the jazz we have been listening to for so long, and we find out that the MR. GIVINGS: Let me say that, first off, black people white society (lid not believe it itself.It did not behave madethis shows how your educational system has lieve that integration could be a meaningful process, cheated you.I don't know how many of you are execu- that black people could achieve dignity in the society tives of large business.I know a lot of you are.I don't through integration. know how you made it because your educational system Now we are building our own power base, to build has cheated you. Black people have contributed to this our own base from which black people will operate. Wesociety since its beginning. They have done things in say whites are racist, black can be racist. What is this society that are a part of its whole cultural base. wrong? How come I want to be racist? We h.ave made our commitment. We continue to make I think it is a ridiculous question.I think it is partour commitment in Viet Nam and in other respects. of a sick society, in that, if we hung up on that racism, Blacks are dying in Viet Nam. What other kind of com- we don't go anywhere. Racism can be used as a tool to mitment are you asking that we make? What kind do develop power like anything else.I don't find anything you want? racist. I think the answer to that question is, basically, from my point of viewI am asking that white people MISS RICHARDSON: I think people can love us.I don'tmake no commitments to this society until this society think they can be put in the racist category. My people is prepared to make commitments to its blacks. will never hate on the basis of color. They will hate on the basis of deeds that are done to us.I don't think my MR. LEWIS: I think that maybe this question is pointed black brothers are haters.I think they hate what has at the so-called lawlessness of black people, and I been done to them.If this is a term of racism, then I think, if you are going to consider that, you have to con- plead guilty.But I don't think that what they are hating sider again our different frames of reference. is your color.I think it's what you stand for. And that If you can call a policeman and he comes, and I is the difference between the Ku Klux Klan and the blackcan call one, and he doesn't come, we don't have the power group. They hate what is being done to people, same concept of what law is.If the law works for you and the Klan is different. and can convict me in 30 daysand I can't get heat all winter, I don't have much respect for laws that permit MR. LEWIS: Let's go into the next question. Much hasthis variance. If this is what we are talking aboutI been said about the recognition of the Negro and his think that may be what we are talking about. rights in our society. At what point would you say the The question asks about responsibilities to society. Negro has responsibilities to the society in which he I think you have to consider the different frames of lives? reference, our different lives in the same country, our different experiencesand a man is guided by his ex- MR. GIVINGS: You mean like dying in Viet Nam? perience.I think that the experience of black people, many black people with the law has been that the law does not work for them, they do not have the respect MR. LEWIS: That might be one. for the law that many people in the white communities have. MR. GIVINGS: None whatsoever. MR. BARRY: I think that, traditionally, in America, MISS RICHARDSON: Repeat the question. when governments are set up and societies exist, it is for the benefit of the people within. The government is MR. LEWIS: Much has been said about the recognition there to serve the people and work for the peoplethen of the Negro, and his rights in our society. At what people have a responsibility to work with the govern- point would you say that the Negro has responsibilities ment. That is true. We are saying here that the so- to the society in which he lives? ciety has not seen fit to allow and give the blacks an

23 democracy, which he can- opportunity to do what they want to do,and, therefore, trying to solidify American Should that happen, should you then be not do for his exclusive benefit. the question is: struggles expected to do that? The fact of the matter is that the major feelingI believe very to try to make Americameaningful and to try to make On the other hand, I have a saidbe more much in self-help, I believe inblacks helping them- Americaas one of these young people want to do it, than a verbal, hypocritical form ofdemocracy, and to selves, too. But let us do it because we ironically, car- not because we want to feel like wehave to do it.If we be a thorough democracy, has been, not pull- ried on by the most disadvantaged groupin America. don't do it, we are not responsible and we are know what re- ing ourselves up by the bootstraps. Ibelieve in self- If that isn't responsibility, I don't because of sponsibility is. help.I want the society not to condemn me of you to be what they have done to meI have aresponsibility to And I end on what might sound to some inability to see that is another ex- break out of this bind. a bitter note. The to feel ample of the kind of blindness and distortionwhich the People living in public housing are made but clearly, it they are responsibile for living inthere. That is bad sickness imposes upon not just whites, putting them in seems to be imposing it uponNegroes. If we continue in a society that is responsible for to engage in there. at this type of blindness, if we continue alleged dialogues that merely permeatedistortion and clarifying MR. LEWIS: I think we ought to turnto the panel on blindness, then I don't see the dialogue as trying to get a thing.I think dialogues are merely goingto rein- the left whom I have virtually ignored, polka-dot blind- these questions from the floor. force black blindness, white blindness, Dr. Clark handed me a note sayingthey feel sort ness, while this country seemsto be going merrily, of segregated over there, too.I am sort of obligated, chattingly, panel-dominated, commission-report- you know, to turn to ourpanel. Dr. Clark. dominated, to hell.

DR. CLARK: I feel excluded,doubly or triply in the MR. SMITH: There is a matter thatalways troubles minority. And I think we are working onthe assump- me a little hit.The term "black power" has been tion that dialogue necessarilyclarifies. My problem bandied about, and the semantics bother me.This is that we don't find that to be truein too many dia- term has been bandied about inthe press for many, logues. Dialogue also confuses. And oneother com- many months. It has beenused here this morning on ment I would like to make is that Ithink that, when the several occasions. It means differentthings to differ- history of this nation's struggle withthis phase of the ent people, and I would like tohave the panel kind of civil rights movement is written, itprobably will in- express what it means tothem. dicate that it has been talked to death. The basic heart of the fundamental issues were MR. LEWIS: The gentleman iscalling for a definition convenient to avoided by the society that found it more of "black power." talk or to write aboutor to havecommissions deal with the verbal part. which I wanted to MR. BARRY: My whole thingabout that is, let me say Let that be by way of context in acclimated to make this comment about Negroresponsibility.I am thisKen has just said.-I have to get this kind of audience.I thought that people knewabout fascinated by the fact that first the question isasked I usually self-righteous thatthat is why I talked about anotherpoint. and it is always asked in a kind of It really doesn't get into mannerand I am even more fascinatedby the fact thatdon't get into that question. articulate human the essence of what we aretalking about. We give our three extraordinarily intelligent and everybody doesn't beings on my far right bought the premiseof that ques- definition, and after we do that, understand what it is.If you give a definition of what tion. spend all your time I personally would reject the premiseof that black power is, then you have to explaining what it is, and that is notwhat we ought to question. The fact of the matter is that the Negroin Americabe doing. has been making the most difficultcontributions to America since he has been here, andparticularly MR. LEWIS: Will you buy that answer,Mr. Smith? within the last century, since emancipation,and even more so since the1940s. MR. SMITH: If that is the answer Iget, I have to. Anyone who dares to ask this questionabout the responsibility of the Negro to Americansociety does not understand the nature ofAmerican society or the MR. LEWIS: The next question fromthe audience is namely, what we have this. As soon as the Negro is placed in aposition of nature of American democracy, then referred witnessed is that the most disadvantaged groupin participation and control, he is frequently America has had to bear the most difficultstruggle of to as "Uncle Tom." Why?

24 MISS RICHARDSON: Well, let's see. You have to stop MR. LEWIS: I have another question here. Some nice and realize that the only guys that you talk to are the person out there. The question is: Do you have some ones you consider have met your standards. And these suggestions on hard-core minority hiring. The gentle- guys, in turn, look down upon us. You have sent them man says they expect to start a program and intend to to deal with us. be successful. How would they go about recruiting We have six of them, and when we raise hell in hard core? our city, they send the panel, the white Toms, who have no education, but is somebody's cousin, and you send MR. BARRY: That question would take a seminar in the Negro who is specially trained to divert my atten- itself on the various ways you get the hard-core, and tion from my problem to something else. the only thing I can say is, first, you have to define I admit now, since certain changes in this coun- what you are talking about when you say hard core. try, we have very few "Toms" left. They realize they You have to define the kind of man you are looking for. have been trained to divert the average poor black And secondly, you have to know where you find away from our problem. But until we get rid of those them. Believe me, everybody doesn't know where to last few, especially those on the international scene, find them. We do, and we sort of keep it a secret. we are going to have to look down on them. Sometimes we put them in the right situation. But thirdly, I think the old attitude about how you MR. LEWIS: Mr. Givings. approach them has to be different than how you approach them now. Fourthly, the whole thing of testing and the idea MR. GIVINGS: I don't really know. By the statement of what you are looking for has to be examined. It is that black people who begin to express a dialogue or hard for me to give you an answer, except to say that participate in the form of the society we havewe live it would take a couple of hours to discuss. init is from an administrative point that they become Those four ideas hit me and might help you. a Tom. We as blacksand this is primarily pointed to And the fifth one is that a certain attitude has to blackscan find ourselves being caught up in a much be evolved that doesn't degrade him, doesn't make it more sophisticated game of keeping the black commun- seem like you are doing him a big favor. They don't ity split. have to be looked at as freaks. They have to be put I think we have to determine first who it is that is into a situation where they are made part of the situa- a Tom. It could very easily be when we leave here that tion, and are important, work in jobs worthwhile. Mary Richardson and myself are called Toms. I don't really buy that.I think that maybe that is a trick to be MR. GIVINGS: I would suggest that whoever it was used to keep the black community divided much more. that raised that question return to his communityif If, in effect, black people were educated and black they read the paperand find out who it is that the people who are intellectuals become a part of a mean- white Establishment really hatesand come down and ingful, indigenous revolution and begin to offer the kindsgo to that person and ask him to help him develop a of expertise we have to develop, and make changes in program in which you can bring hard-core people into the black society, then I think that, in this respect, they the organization. are not, in effect, Toms. But they are the real revolu- tionaries of the societyseeing how most revolution- MR. LEWIS: I just want to say that all of you really aries have come out of a middle-class societyChe don't have to comment on each of these questions. If Guevera was a doctor, Castro was a lawyer, Lenin was you have something to say, be free to say it. a very well-educated man. Sometimes I sort of get the impression that you I don't buy the stuff about Tomism. The black man really didn't want to comment on one. has to stop calling any man who infiltrated the "system" and is trying to find out about what it is, is a Tom.MISS RICHARDSON: That is all right. We decided We can recognize them ourselves. to work as a team. I have just two suggestions, and I came a little bit MR. BARRY: In 1968 you discoveredwhoever asked prepared for that, because the kids themselves de- the question is a little bit behind schedule. In our com- cided they wanted to give you their thinking. The kids munities we have stopped talking about Uncle Toms went and applied for jobs and were interviewed by so- and sell-outs, and so forth, because, as Jimmi said, cial workers that many of your companies hiredand this is a device to divide us. You notice now, like in they have a short sentence of what the interviewer Washington, you have a whole segrient of the commun- saidand then their own interpretation of that sen- ity working together from the most middle class to the tence. And the first one is David Jones. And the inter- most ghetto brothers. Again, you have to learn that. viewer believed that David is not ready for a job, but You will hear that in the future, because we are coming should be referred to discuss his previous experience together now. with jobs. The application should be pronerly prepared

25 in a short period of time. He shouldfit the machinery you give to them on thatjob. And the dishwasher or the very well. garbage man or the street cleaner or the maid or David's answer to that is: Not ready, but must porter, has to be looked upon as a person with some have money to live. Have done six years in jail.You value, and some worth. That is the way I look at it. don't make out applications in jail.I am ready to fit into any type of job, because I don't have time toget a MISS RICHARDSON: The way I meant it wasthat many good job. of the jobs that have been offered to the gangkids of Clarence Jones said his interviewer said:"Clar- different cities are jobs that can be replaced very ence will need a great deal of support,in my judgment. quickly by automation. The kids felt they will soonhave He seems eager to work at this time. He isscheduled families, if they don't have them already. If thejob for BES test, and will call and see if machine opera- cannot take them into a future, then theywill just go tor's jobs are available on Monday." from one job to another, and never be able tostay in Clarence answer to him is:"I need a great deal of one placeand this iswhat I mean by a job that is support in finding someone who will accept me as an meaningful. employee. I am eager to work because I want to live. I am scheduled for a test because they thinkI am ig- MR. GIVINGS: I think the point that MissRichardson norant to a certain degree. The test is notvalid of me. made at the end was the one I would react to.That is It is a test valid of them. Will call and see me.Don't that jobs opened to black people shouldbe jobs that need to be in a machine operator's job. Havetrouble. have a future, so they can move from onelevel to the I am fumble-fingered." next one in an organization, and right on up.It is like Tex Murphy: "Tex needs to have somehelp in how I recall when my father began working.He was con- to fill out an application. He made some errorsin both sidered a laborer. But he worked his way upthrough cards of BTI, which he was given to do.I think he is to the ranks, where he reached a point wherehe was head be referred now and, with a lot of persistent support, of the union out there. can be successful." That is the kind of job that is only open incertain His answer: "I am a gang leader.I am success- kinds of fields and, as we get more and moreinvolved ful as far as my ghetto is concerned. I needhelp in in automation, it becomes verydifficult in going into learning to know me. I need help in learningwhat I am.an organization, to work your way up.You people come I need help in learning how to stay on thejob." in at the top. The kind of jobs thathave to open up for That is all.I think that should answer your ques- the black community have to offer anopportunity for tion in terms of how you go about employingthe grass upgrading, jobs that are relevant in termsof building roots. not only within the total system, butwithin subsystems of our system. Jobs involving constructionjobsthat MR. LEWIS: We will go on to the next question.What are involved in the electricianunions are tightand do you specifically mean by the phrase, MissRichard- they have to open these up and let blackpeople in, so sonthis is directed to you"jobs which are meaning- they can make meaningful contributions, notonly to ful to us"? What do you specifically mean by thephrasethe total society, but to their own communities.These "jobs which are meaningful to us"? are the kinds of jobs that youngblack people are interested in having, not the kind of jobs 0E0 opens up MISS RICHARDSON: We have a thing up here for women.for the summer and, after the summer,drops them I am waiting for my brothers to answerfirst, and then back, after the emergencies of the summer are over. I will take it up. like a MR. LEWIS: Now, this is the last questionI have. MR. BARRY: The guys don't want to be treated debate. fixture. You take a restaurant dishwasher. Thatis the This is a pointed one, and will trigger some What more do you want? Specifically, inWashington lowest-paid job, and the least-respected job in the the majority of the Council whole joint. He gets $1.30 a hour, if that much. He you have a Negro mayor, the most im- is Negro, the majority of the Districtof Columbia em- says outside the shop the dishwasher is decision- the ployees are NegTo. You have all the policy portant man in the restaurant. If you don't wash making power. Why not use it constructively, asthe dishes, you get a lot of dirty dishes. did in They are not respected because they don't get a white man does, instead of destructively as you higher salary. They should be treated as an integral the public hearing on 313? It is not the job itself. That will take a Washingtonian to answer. Mr. part of whatever they are doing. Barry, it looks like you are elected. It is how they are treated on the job, howthey are looked at, because they also tell us that they canmake that much money on the street hustling. MR. BARRY: It is probably directed at me. We were It is easier, and they can drive a Cadillac, and involved in the fight to stop the freeway frombeing that kind of thing.It is the kind of job and the attitude built here.

26 Black visibility is not the same thing as black The question is very simple. "What do you want?," power or black control or black awareness,because, people ask.I say, "What do you want? That is what even with Mayor Washington being in,he doesn't have we wantwhat you want." the powerbecause the District doesn't have any gov- That is what we have to get at.I don't think that ernment that is elected. Mr. Washington is appointed is asking too much in 1968 in America. by the President of the United States, which means he has to serve at the pleasure of the President of the United Stateswhich means there are certain things MR. LEWIS: There are one or two things I would like that he knows that he can and cannot doand I know it, to say.I remember inviting a group of civil rights too. leaders to a broadcast I was conducting and the topic That is not enough. We are saying that we need under discussion was: What does the Negro want? people in office who can be responsive and responsible And one of the answers I got was this: The Negro to our municipality. wants what America has taught him to want. And There is one thing about Negroes in jobs in Wash- America should hope that he continues to want that, and ington.You find that 52 per cent of all Federal jobs only that. are grouped in GS-4 to GS-8 or GS-9. You haveless Now, I would like to thank the panelboth this than 10 per cent of the black people in jobs in Wash- panel of our young leaders, youth leadersMr. Givings, ington over a GS-9. You find that in the departments Miss Richardson and Mr. Barry. here, highways and other places, you have Negroes On my left, too, I would like to thank our profes- grouped at the bottom, and white people who are the sional panel. I would like to call them professionals, supervisors, at the top. because they are engaged in another profession. So I don't think that black visibility is the same Mr. Smith, Mr. Patterson, Mr. Johnson, and Dr. Clark. thing.

27 AFTERNOON SESSION

MR. BOOTH: changes in the social fabric which will improve the On our program this afternoon, we have three men quality of life for all Americans? who have prepared papers on different important as- This is a streamlined summary of the paper, and pects of the Negro ghetto, and its problems. I will probably not get around to answering the third Each of these men will give us a brief summary ofquestion. his paper and then respond to questions. If you should raise questions about this later, I Our first speaker is a student of some very im- would be glad to share some thoughts with you. portant questions, such asWhy urban unrest? and, I would like, first, to describe the tentative an- What is the anatomy of disorder? His analysis will swers we have found to the first two questionsand to help us answer those questions. explain the basis for supporting them. Let me present to you, Dr. Sol Chaneles, who will 1. The immediate and underlying causes of urban speak on the subject, "Some Contributing Factors to violence: Most informed Americans are mindful of Urban Unrest." Dr. Chaneles. some of the urban social problems whichunderlie and contribute to prevailing urban tensions and which ex- DR. CHANELES: Thank you, Mr. Booth. acerbate race relations. Ladies and gentlemen: During the last ten months There are many experts among the guests of the we were asked by federal, 'tate and localgovernmentalChamber here who are knowledgeable in these matters, units, by private industry, by local citizen groups, to who have been speaking about them for20years or look into various aspects of the unrest situation of last moreAlinsky, Marshall, Wolfbein, Clark, and others summer. around. During this time, and particularly around Septem- Such problems include inadequate housing; poor ber of last year, one captain of industry, whose first employment opportunities; lack of governmental plan- name is Max, handed me a four-page, typewritten letter,ning, encompassing adequate representation and active single-spaced, chock-full of very penetrating questions.participation of the poor, and especially of the average These questions have haunted me right up until this citizen; the failure to maintain adequate communica- morning, this moment, in fact, and especially one para-tions between people; and so on, down a very long and graph of his query, which I would like to quote to you. painful list of underlying problems. "i am very much concerned that a conference on These problems, however, I view as small build- urban problems at this time will at least add to the con-ing blocks, building units, which form very complex fusion and frustration that exist or, at the worst, do configurations of underlying causes of urban tension. considerable harm by seeming to promise something Personally, I do not view any one or combination that cannot be delivered.I fail to understand how a of these underlying factors as directly contributing to conference of any kind can cope with problems without the violence of the past summer. first finding out what the problems really are." Ln looking for the proximate or immediate cause Max, somewhere out therethe problems that you of urban violence, I tried to identify significant factors are talking about are many-layered problems, and I which, given a particular triggering incidentlike the have only attempted to take a first cut at these prob- shooting by a policeman of an unarmed teen-ager, or lems, to peel off one of these many layers. the arbitrary and capricious "roughing up" of a group The work that we have done involved intensive in- of youngsterspermit a single, localized incident to quiries in15of our larger cities, less intensive in- escalate into sustained and horrifying pitched battles quiries in an additional85of the 100 largest cities in between ordinary black citizens and an "army of oc- the country. cupation" requiring the presence and repressive tech- The methods are not perfect, but the situation niques of local and state police, the National Guard, wasn't perfect to do this kind of research. the U. S. Army and armed white vigilantes. There are going to be some answers and the an- In the last few months I have learned that many swers are going to be tentative. little old ladies with white sneakers and white caps are In preparing the paper, I was guided by three taking rifle practice. questions. I had identified17factors or indicatorsI use the 1. What were the immediate causes of the sum- term interchangeablywhich combine into a critical mer's violence of1967? mass, moving in after the triggeringincident. 2.Should violence occur in1968,and after, will These17indicators combine into five clusters, these outbursts be different in character from those of and I would like to describe each of these clusters or last year? areas of factors. 3. Can steps be taken now, short of law enforce- The first has to do with a predisposition to comment intervention, to prevent new outbursts and con- mit violence as a method for producing social change. tribute at the same time to bringing about needed

28 This cluster comprises three indicators:First, ex- into every city in the land and whose activities are not pressions of the will to commit violent acts. Second, limited to the sale of weapons. expressions of the will to continue violence after the The third indicator in the violence-readiness intervention of law-enforcement controls. Third, ex- cluster has to do with the movement of released mis- pressions of the will to direct violence against spe- demeanants and felons, both white and Negro, into ur- cific targets, such as buildings owned by slum-lords, ban communities. The abysmal failure of the nation's businesses owned by neighborhood merchants who prison and correctional system, its unanticipated role purportedly "gouge" slum people, businesses with as a training school for more serious andsophisticated very discriminatory hiring practices, andpeople, as delinquencies and crime, its failure to train the ofwell. fender in useful trades and to provide meaningful em- Lest there be any misunderstanding on this first ployment are conditions which are fairly well known cluster of indicators, the expressions of violence stud- and need no elaboration here. However, released ied are not those articulated solely by Negroes. On offenders tend to return to areas of the central city, the contrary, observation shows that such predisposi- already tense. Thus, large numbers of persons, al- tions to violence have been expressed by both Negroes ready predisposed to react violently to stresses in the and whites.It should be noted that, typically, Negro community, contribute to and heighten existing urban expressions of violence are directed toward targets tensions. like buildings and stores; white expressions of violence The third cluster has to do with expressions of are directed toward the Negro population. dissatisfaction with local government. This area com- The second cluster has to do with the existence of prises four indicators. violence-readiness factors. This cluster comprises First, statements to the effect that local govern- three indicators. ment is generally corrupt; specific allegations that First, informal training centers have emerged local government cooperates closely with the "Establish- where techniques are taught to sharpshoot, prepare ment"the news media and business communityin different types of Molotov cocktails, commit acts of preventing complete and up-to-date awareness of the vandalism, the storing of ammunition, chains, clubs andgrievances of the Negro community, and assertions surplus army weapons, the preparation of escape routesthat local government makes very little effort to en- and methods of paralyzing the water supply system. force local laws and ordinances, thus permitting busi- Such training centers have been in existence in nessmen and landlords to exploit Negro residentsand major American cities since the turn of the century and thwart Negro aspirations. were, until very recently, facilities made up pre- Second, expressions of skepticism as to the va- dominantly of white teenagers, who, in organized gangs lidity and capability of upgrading programs such as or other groupings, perpetrated acts of vandalism intensified educational projects, urban renewal and against schools, places of worship, cemeteries and pri-job-training efforts designed to substantially amelio- vate homes. These training centers, in the past, I rate conditions in the slums. should add, served as places of recruitment for quali- Third, widespread rejection of certain upgrading fied young punks to enter the world of professional and programs which are viewed as half-hearted "tokenism," organized crime. especially of anti-poverty programs, and of attempts More recently, similar training centers for vio- by the business community to generate low-skilled, lence have been created in Negro neighborhoods. marginal jobs for the unemployed. And, fourth, ex- The second indicator which is supportive of pre- pressions of general dissatisfaction about the dismal dispositions to violence is concerned with the illegal amount and quality of health services available in poor movement of small arms into the central city. In some neighborhoods. cities, the scale of illegal small arms sales has at- The fourth cluster includes governmental institu- tained such proportions that reliable interviewees feel tions as breeding grounds for violence. that all males, teenagers and adults, white and Negro, This cluster comprises two indicators. The first are "armed to the teeth" and prepared for an"all-out is expression of dissatisfaction with the juvenile and shoot-out." family courts. Although the Gault decision (May 1967) The illegal sale of small arms is quite a different intended to ameliorate the "Kangaroo Court" type of matter from the acquisition of inoperative Army "sur- proceedings which characterize most of the nation's plus" weapons, which require expert attention for re- juvenile courts, harsh, unjust and self-defeating con- activation. Such "surplus" weapons did not play a role ditions persist. Heavy calendars, commitment of ju- during the summer of 1967. Small arms, however, are veniles to inadequate, over-crowded and inhumane de- purchased as new or only slightly used. They are easy tention facilities and the apparent inability of the to purchase and are ready to use. Prices, incidentally, juvenile court system to adequately marshal the re- range from $10 in areas of lax controls to$40 in areas sources necessary to assist troubled youth and their of tight controls. The suppliers of illegal small arms families combine powerfully to stimulate a motivation are white adults whose network of distribution reaches to commit violence.

29 I have heard many youths describe how, duringthe in leadership in the legitimate socio-economicstruc- first hour of their commitment to a juveniledetention ture to accommodate Negroes has its counterpartin facility, they learn to make three different types of the underworld. fuses for Molotov cocktails. The first factor in this cluster is concerned with For a variety of reasons, these courtsdiscourage tensions which are generated in the on-goinghistorical interested citizens from visiting and observingtheir movement of Negro succession to positions ofcontrol parody of justice for juveniles.I strongly urge busi- in the underworld. ness leaders to visit thesejuvenile court and detention The remaining factors are specific areas ofunder- facilities to observe how they rapidly transform de- world activity which are, by and large, owned and op- prived, puzzled, frightened youths and children into erated by white criminals but which flourish in Negro tough, bitterly angry young adults. neighborhoods. One of these specific areas of eco- The second indicator encompassed by thecluster nomic exploitation, in the sense that thelion's share of is concerned with verbalization by bothwhites and the profits move into the pockets of the whitecrime Negroes about police-community relationships.This bosses, is the distribution and sale of stolenmerchan- indicator is probably the weakest of all thosestudied. dise. The third is the distribution and saleof drugs. The feelings of white urban residents aboutthe local The fourth is concerned with whiteownership and police involves a mixture of contempt for theirsolici- patronage, of houses of prostitution and alliedcall-girl tations of favors and gifts, their petty corruptionand operations. The fifth is concerned with thewhite dom- their failure to repress the increasing scaleand ination in Negro neighborhoods of illegalfiduciary op- militancy of Negro aspirations. erations such as loan-sharking,gambling and policy The feelings of the Negro, by contrast, involve games. pointed hatred against the proclivity of police to arbi- By way of summary, these indicators reflectand trarily exercise undue force and brutality, and a strongmeasure an increasingly aggressiveappeal for the feeling that many acts of police inadequacies are dic- redress of long-standing underlying grievances. They tated by inept local governmental political leadership. clearly show there exists a pervasive climate of vio- Negro criticism which has the most sensitive value as lence in virtually every urban center of the nation. a tension indicator focuses oncomplaints that police This climate of violence is nurtured by and, inturn, are told by corrupt local officials tooverlook viola- feeds the other tension-producing behaviors. tions of the law perpetrated by white criminals and The 1967 outbursts of violence, I contend, were slum-lords. Allegations of complicty between police, fostered primarily by this climate of violence, gen- the underworld and officialdom are balanced by speci- erally unrelated to underlying grievanceswhich, fic citations of police assistance rendered for emer- nevertheless, served as an outlet after rather banal gency, everyday situations. A trend awayfrom favor- triggering events. White and Negro both expressed able to disparaging statements obviously reveals a predispositions to violence; both provoked and re- mounting of tension. taliated as they promised they would. Their statements The fifth cluster has to do with exploitation of the were credible and theylived up to their promises. Negro community by the white underworld. These statements were made long in advanceof the This cluster comprises five factors. There are eruptions, but the warnings were unheeded. extensive underworld operatiops in every sizable city We have been hearing such warningsarticulated in the nation. The social history of crime inthe United since the eruptions subsided last fall. Wehear them States over the past 100 years has shown, in part, a every day now. Are the promisesof violence for 1968 general tendency for the dominant criminal group in a valid? city to become respectable through the investment of I turn now to the second questionWilloutbursts criminally acquired profits in legitimate enterprise; occur in 1968? Will they bedifferent in character subsequently, control of their criminal operations from those in 1967? passes into the hands of others. Very simply, the answer appears to be "yes." The forces in the American pattern of prejudice There will be outbursts of violence in 1968 andthis and discrimination which have prevented Negroesfrom year's violence will differ in scope and qualityfrom moving into and up in the worlds of real estate, insur- 1967. ance, manufacturing, banking, unionleadership, com- Nothing has changed since last year which would merce and government are the samewhich have pre- in any way alter the predisposition toviolenceneither vented members of the Negro underworld frommoving in the white community nor in the Negrocommunity. from their low underworld positions to supplant the There is little reason for believing that all themilitary current controllers and brokers of crime. hardware in our domestic arsenals will have a real im- To be sure, Negroes are employed bycriminal pact in lessening the imminence of renewedviolence. groups and organizations, butonly in minor roles. The No amount of moral oratory or token gesturesaimed broad national movement aimed at producingchanges

30 :it ameliorating racial grievances will have substan- Americans, is seen as illusion and the techniques of tial impact in lessening the simmering potential for change which appear to be most appropriate are those explosive eruptions. No amount of dialogue or dollars of proven successthe techniques employed by local by themselves will stem the disnial ticie. political machines, by local underworld organizations Last summer's outbursts were described by the which are often enmeshed in the local political ma- public, generally, as either "riots" or "disturbances" chine, and by the persuasive power of local business. terms often used interchangeably.I think there is a The policy of peaceful coexistence between rich very real difference between such phenomena and the and poor has overnight been rendered null and void; a violent events which occurred in previous years, usu- climate of political astuteness has been generated among ally referred to as "incidents." By "incident," I refer Negroes and is being publicly expressed as a war on to a very shortlived outburst of violence which takes "phony liberalism," "official corruption," "officially place in an extremely limited area and often involves protected economic exploitation of Negroes." The many onlookers, but relatively few participants.By instrument of this political war is violence. "disturbance,"I refer to an outburst of violence which is sustained over many hours or clays, covering a fairlyMR. BOOTH: Thank you very much, Mr. Chaneles. large geographic area, ultimately involving large num- Ladies and gentlemen, in the Negro ghetto, one bers of participants who, initially, are attracted to the message comes through loud and clear. That is the scene of violence as onlookers and, then, tend to be- importance of leadership, and the need for a structure come participants. A "riot," from the standpoint of of indigenous leadership. violence, may achieve the level of either an incident or We heard about that this morning. a disturbance, but is differentiated from either by a Our next speaker has been there.Ile has worked framework of political or ideological intent directed at with people in the poor neighborhoodswhite ones and producing changes in the organization of society. black ones. And what he has tc say comes out of his The 1967 outbursts of violence were not rooted in own first hand knowledge and his own experience. an endeavor to achieve stated objectives. By these Let me present to you Mr. Saul Alinsky, who was definitions, the outbursts of recent years, were inci- asked to speak on the subject, "Filling the Void of In- dents and disturbancesbut not riots. digenous Slum Leadership." In sharp contrast, our experience this year will MR. ALINSKY: I am not going to speak to my paper.I reveal this added elementengagement in violence and am not going to discuss it, because I assume that you dcstruction to realize specific goals. There will be in- all will read it. cidcnts of violence in virtually every one of the na- What I would like to do is to make three or four tion's 100 largest cities, but we may anticipate a major pointsat least they are major from where we smaller number of disturbances. However, the proba- stand, with reference to where you start. bility is quite high that we shall experience at least 24 I am not going to go over all this business of jobs politically articulated riots. We may also expect nu- and everything you have been reading aboutall of merous and intensely violent disturbances, triggered those things that have been well known for years. But by both white and Negro provocations. rather, with your own mental outlook, as far as begin- The riots this year may well be triggered both by ning to make that first step towards coming to grips politically motivated white sentiment to suppress and corrode the vigor of the Negro movement for socio- with the problem, really being able to understand, really being able to communicate. And while we don't economic equality of opportunity, and by politically have the answers, what is extremely important is that motivated Negro sentiment to use violent methods to we really pose the right questions. break through the institutional rigidity of local govern- I certainly am not going to have the audacity of ment, local business, and local crime brokeragesall starting to throw out a whole series of specific recom- of which provide the foundation for white domination mendations what you do in your local situation, because and white exploitation of the Negro. your local situations vary. And one must have a pretty One of the remarkable consequences of the 1967 session of violence was the pressure it exercised in good detailed understanding of what those local circumstances are before you can begin to make sense of forcing rapid political motivation of fairly large num- that. bers of young Negro men and women. Nearly all of these men and women, in 1967, shared the American Let me suggest the irrationalities that are here, with all of us, and why we have to be able to break value of inexorable, gradual change and the flexibility of American institutions to accommodate change. Theirthrough to begin to understandto first confront perception of what took place all over the country has ourselvesand then be able, as a consequence, to make these other confrontations. encouraged them, virtually overnight, to become more Let me just, in passingbut it is pertinent to politically sophisticated and realistic. Much of the what I am about to saygive you my first two reactions American value of gradual change, at least for black to the Kerner report.

31 First, it was a clear example of what happens I let that ride.If they started to use the white when a person no longer has a politically vestedin- man's tactics, they would create their ownvalues. terest, and is not going to run again forGovernor, that I said, "What?" he can let go with this kind of report. There was cer- "Creative fishing." tainly nothing in his state administrationmy own I said, "I thought I heard you say creativefishing." stateto indicate any real sensitivityalong those lines. They said, "Yes, we did." And second, what I am going to betalking to you I said, "I don't know what you are talking about. about is rationale.It becomes so much of a factor When you fish, you just fish; isn't that correct?" that we can begin to believe the rationalerather than "That is correct." And they went on, "When we our real motivation. So manyAmericans, I would say fish, we fish creatively." most Americans, read with horror,absolute horror, I asked, "Like what?" that, unless there was a massive action taken im- "When we fish, we get attuned to nature and wedo mediately, and so forth, America stood on the thres- it creatively." hold of possibly developing an apartheid society. And it kept on going that way, and I finally broke This is very significant, because I wonder what in, and I said, "That's just a rationale.That's a lot of the Commission thought actually wehad since the be- stuff. What are these great values you would lose?" ginning of this country. We havealways had an apart- And they went on through these thingsand one heid society here. The only difference between usand after another, it was broken down, and at thatpoint they South Afri( a is that we have always had apolitical and then wanted to face up to the problem as towhy they moral rationale in terms of equality, in termsof the had not organized and why this was what theyhad to do. dignity of the individual, etc.why, in fact, wehave al- But this is the same problem we findwhenever we ways practiced apartheid. go into a community. Thefirst job that has to be done What in the world was segregation, if it wasn't in an organization is to break down therationale which just that? How can anyone think otherwise, when you has been developed to justify why they haven'tdone any- look around and see black communities and white com- thing. munities, etc.? It is the same problem we have with corporations But this is the danger of rationale, in that you when we want them to change policy. Their firstde- can't see through to the problem. fense is their rationalewhy they should not change Let me begin by saying to you that all human policy. beingsthis has nothing to do with racehave a ration- Well, this may be, but this becomes the major ale for what they are doing, or what they are notdoing. issue. This, in fact, is nothing new. There isn't a You have to have. Sometimes, it reaches theextreme psychiatrist in the country that won't tell you that his primitive form, such asit is good for illustrative first job in psychotherapy is to break through whathe purposesfor example, among the Canadian Indians. calls the patient's defenses, his rationalizations, be- We spent a lot of time up in Canada the lastmonth. fore he can begin to get the patient to facehis problem The Canadian Indians had asked me to come in for guid-and on a mass basis, precisely the same thingpertains. ance, counseling,to do somethingabout their problem. And this is a problem that all corporations,all Their problem is exactly the same as the Ameri- businessmen, all labor leaders of any kind,have, and can Indiansa little worseactually, if you can possibly this is the first issue which I hope will come up in conceive that. discussion, which has to be done with your separate What they wanted was the Canadian National Indiancenters of society. It must be done withall centers of Act changed with all of its discriminatory patterns. society.It is necessary to face up to and crackthrough My position was that they have to organize, becausethe rationalizations which you have tojustify what you organization is what people have always done, from the are doing, or what youhaven't done. Or to just discuss time the world was begun, in order to have power, or why you won't do certain things or to justify what we the ability to act, as I pointed out in my paper, tobegin have seen tragically happen in one communitywhich of to make the changes. had every potential for setting a national pattern, The moment I raised that question, I knew very dialogue to the deathso that the situation isalmost at well that implicit within it was really a second question:the point of hopelessness, as far as what was anextra- How come you Ineians need me to tell you about this? ordinarily promising opportunity was concerned. How come you haven't organized before? This is one thing you will have to keep in mind. The rationale started coming up at once. They did A second thing that is related to this is the fact not want to organize. There must be another way todo that all of us, since the beginning of this nation,have it. because organizing was the white man's wayof doingbeen very schizophrenic in terms of oursubscription it. to the democratic philosophy.Verbally, we have always That is utterly fallacious. All people of all colors,espoused the equality of mankind; privately, wehave al- who have ever done anything in history, have organized.ways had a dual attitude.And this definitely affects our thinking and our position on anyaction.

32 This is first evident in the FFDERALIST PAPERS But you never ask yourselfWhy was there any and first attained prominence and was admirably reasonwhy they should learn anything about their stated in terms of facility by Alexander Hamilton, schools? when he was taking the position in terms of equal votes, People don't learn except if there is a reason for "Do you expect us to give people who are illiterate it. You don't learn your business, except if there is a (remember that most of the people in the Colonies reason for learningwhether it is to make money, or were illiterate at the time of the revolution) and prop- this or that. You don'teven when you go to college. ertyless (remember this was an agricultural society, You see the ads on the TV all the time. A high school you can say "poor" today)to give them an equal vote graduate makes so much money, a college graduate to people like ourselves, who are educated, responsi- makes so much. There is a reason for doing it. ble, concerned with our property values?" Why should you be concerned or become informed That is the same position as the Mayor of my city about your school condition, if there is nothing you can took in a statement that in a slavish way paraphrased do about it? Alexander Hamilton, during the poverty days, calling I don't kmow anything about the oil business in for maximum feasible participation of the poor, which Pakistan or anything.I have no interest in itunless has been amended by the Green amendment, which now there is a reason for me to have an interest in it.But reads "maximum participation by City Hall"which, those same peopleonce organizeddo have the power in fact, it was all the time. to make changes, and now have it within their grasp to Mayor Daley then said, "Why should we have the make changes in their schools. The very same people poor on these committees? What do they know?If I have been talking to you about, will then indulge in they kmew anything, they wouldn't be poor." this kind of discussion"We want to change our schools. Basically, that is the same position. That means we want good teachers." And, for the first Hamilton relinquished that position, being a poli- time, the question comes up, "What is a good teacher? ticianand realizingknowing very well that the alter- What is a bad teacher? How do you get rid of a bad native to that way of life was a way of life of the teacher?" And that is a really tough question, actually. aristocracy. It really is. But I suggest that this is a real hang-up inside not And you will find, finally, they make the statement, only you, but all people, and particularly whites versus "Then maybe we will have to get some of the educators blacks. around and listen to themnot that we have to buy their Let me give you a specific case. When you go into whole bit, but they may have an idea or so." a black community and you start asking aroundI am They are asking the right questions, in terms of taking this as a particular illustration, because partici-the competency of people to be able to manage their pation of parents and local community groups in school own affairs, in terms of the basic American political administration is a very hot issue right now in many citiesyou go into those communities and you ask Believe me, you get reassured on it.You know people, "What's wrong with your schools?" They will it is there, if given the chance. But you see, most of say, "Segregated." you have not witnessed this. As a consequence, you "Yes, but what else is wrong. I know that." will talk verbally about freedom and equality, your be- "They stink." lief in it, but in actual fact, you believe in it as much "Anything else?" as you believe in Christian morality. "The teachers are no good." I am jumping because my time is running out. The "Well, what do you mean?" one reference back to the paper is that the prime mis- "They are just no good." sion of a democracy, obviously non-violent, a partici- "Well, what else is wrong?" patory society, means that you have to have the legiti- "A lot of things wrong." mate, bona fide actual representatives of various "What do you do about it?" sectors of society. Without this, they can't be meeting Well, at this point, you run into the beginnings of together in a pushing and hauling and dealing and com- one or another of two reactions. Either the other partypromisinga continuous process along this line. That's suddenly remembers he has to be some other place or what makes the democratic process. And this is the else there will be an emotional reaction of anger, big gap across the cities, trying to find those legiti- "Look, Whitey, you started all this. You go ahead and mate representatives. fix this up," and walk away. This is an essential of organization because, So, you can stand there with the reaction, saying, lacking organization, you cannot get representation. 'What do they really know about the schools?" You have to accept those who come at it and just say, Suppose they did have committees that had charge "I am a leader," and accept them on that basis. of policies and other things. What contributions could This is the question we will have to address our- they possibly make? selves toonce you have made this confrontation with

33 these condi- yourself, once you have decided to movein various Being poor myself and looking at all specific directions in your variouscommunities. tionsthis was back in 1957we incorporatedthis Let me close by cautioning you on onething:Don't organization, People's Community Civic League. with dialogue. The We felt then that we had faults all overthe world, kick it to death with meetings and and we must one thing which isimperative at times of massive and and many of us had faults within ourselves, rapid changewhich are these times,not only here, butlearn to do some of the things that are necessaryfor Life is action. And if you con- ourselves. 'worldwideis action. help us, and we tinue the kinds of dialogues, forexample, that went on We know that everybody else could in Rochester, which a year agohad one of the most kmow other people who are willing tohelp usbut we beautiful opportunties to show to theworld what a must show that we are willing to dosomething for our- from the selves. corporation with legitimate representation fish fries, black community could do, haspartly fizzled out in We began by having shore-type dinners, dialoguewhich is just another way of what youdo in cake walksand you name itto raise moneyto pay for business when you say, refer it tocommittee. That is the light bills and gas bills of the poorin those com- good in- the end of it. munities. And it got so good that we made a Whatever you do, when you start moving, youhave vestigation of the poor to be sure that theydidn't abuse to move. Far better for you tomake mistakes, even what we were trying to do for themso weinvolved costly mistakesthey are not toocostly with the pres- them in what we were trying to do. Lotsof times we ent tax structures, and youknow what I am talking had a contest wherein the kids whosold newspapers aboutthan to just sit there and talk. Thegreatest dif- were sent to summer camps.If they had bad marks, ficulty so far is dialogue. we sent them to summerschool. All this was by self-help. I begin to usehere the doing it since 1956. MR. BOOTH: Thank you. word "self-help" and we have been Our next speaker brings us a uniqueand encourag- Then, as you grow and begin to get verypowerful, as political powerswhichin our community, the City ing experience. of all the He is going to tell us how he and afew close friendsof Detroit, is Labor, you become the savior black Americans all of themhave rolled up black problems. That I never could buy. of his problems with their sleeves, taken the initiative, putforth the effort, So they begin to create trouble and I took sick and, as a disabled veteran, and have provided neededleadership through ghetto the organization. self-help, something which business and government went to the veteran's hospital, andLabor overthrew my organization. should both encourage and promote. president of the Let me present Mr. Alvin Bush, whowill speak on When I came out, I was no longer the subject, "Leadership through GhettoSelf-Help." People's Community Civic League. I wasout. I just want to lead up to something.I think that MR. BUSH: Ladies and Gentlemen: I amhere today in America should know leadership issomething that you Washington to talk about, I guess, the samething that must work for. Leadership is not some onethat some- everybody is talking about over theworldWhat is the body should pick for you.I think that all of the expres- about this, that or problem of communities? What can bedone? How can sions of what everybody had in mind problem of America. you solve thoseproblems? the other, is not the answer to the We have a lot of willing minds, and Iheard one of All America should roll up its sleeves, goto work and Clark, say that it is say, "Whatever has beendone for a hundred years, for- the panelists this morning, Dr. And almost talked to death. get about it.Let's start now and start moving. I just heard Alinsky talk about action that includes mewhite Americansand black Ameri- So I am one who believes in action.I myself am a cans, and everybodyelsejoin in an effort to overcome When I left the City this particular problem." poor man raised up in the ghetto. organiza- of New Orleans, I arrived in Detroit in theghetto.I I want to say this, then, to get back to the worked as a servant and continued to live in theghetto. tion. There had been about $4000 in thetreasury. But I had a lot of friends. A lot of peoplewant to give When I came out of the veteran's hospital,they didn't credit to a lot of those people who help,because they want me as president. They had a new group.When I don't know how. came out, they had$2.58 left in the treasury. I will give you an example. Back in1956 in the Now, you have no organization, you have nopeople, City of Detroit we had a Wayne CountyCouncilman who and you still have the problem of thecommunities. had writs to put poor families out oftheir homes for This was in the year 1962.I felt then the State of nonpayment of rent. They also had that samewrit to go Michigan had a lot of opportunity andwillingness to into houses to take out gas meters, whenthey didn't pay help anybody who wanted to helpthemselves. So I let the bill for the gas. it drag for two years. When the people wouldn't let them in, theygot a So I picked a lady by the name of Mrs. IrmaKraft. writ from the court, and went in and tookthe meter. She is a good friend of mine. Her husbandand I were

34 in the anny together. Mrs. Kraft and I decided that day. This was a promise. But this money was needed everybody is marching and demonstrating. We wanted to pay the second installment. to start producing, with willing hands and good citizen- Then the idea got around that we had a call from ship in the community. Washington, a letter from Washington. The politicians We went to one of the millionaires, one named of the City of Detroit decided that now it is time that Charles E. He lin of the He lin Tackle Company.I told you need a proposal. Well, we can get you$2 million Mr. He lin the problem.I wanted to put this building up.from Washington to run this program. This was November 1964. Well, by that time I had a lot of ministers.I see It was only a short period of time before Mr. He lin some ministers in here, and I am sorry I have to talk donated me two buildings on the corner of Beldrome about them.I had 29 ministers of all faiths sitting and Pulvert. This was before any riot or any other around the table with a bunch of other peoplesmall disturbance, such as you may have in America today. businessmensaying how to run this program. You There was need for money to renovate the build- find all kinds of ways to spend that $2 million. ings. So we said, "This is where our future site of That was the sharpest meeting you ever saw in training programs would be for the people of the com- your life that night until I said one thing, "Gentlemen, munity." the beginning of the program was a self-help venture. And we would hold meetings in the back yards and We are going to continue to do it.If we have to do it lawns of the property owners, wherever we could, to by nickels and dimes all the way down the line." raise the money. And we kept moving around. And from that time on we found only one minister And one day Mr. Henry Ford H was not in his left in our committee. office and his attorney was there.I sold him on my It is something to prove that sometimes money proposition and one morning, just before Christmas of controls the minds of people against doing right.It is 1965, I received a check for $5000 from him personally,the dedication of the people that we are looking forward not his corporation. to. There is no use giving me $10 million, and all I am Of course, we could have taken that money, like looking for is a job.It won't do the job in that respect. most times people will do, could have spent this money I want to point that out to you. on everything we intended to do. We accepted it im- I know the job is not so big that you can't meet this mediately and everybody wanted to buy mimeograph or that and the other.I will just say this, men like machines, pencils and pens. Mr. Roche, Mr. Ford, and others, sitting on that coun- I said, along with Mrs. Kraft, that we would take ciland Mr. Townsendnot that they don't understand the $5000 to buy a better building to put the training in. the problem, they are willing to help. We felt that the We went to a local union. We had a building at 5916 business community privately can far better do this 14th Street. We walked into that building. We looked job than anybody in the country. at it.It needed a lot of repair work, but it was better I am sayingbetter than governmentand they do than the building Mr. Henn gave us. So we had to do it all out of tax dollarsbecause there is a difference something fast, in order to get a program rolling. in doing a job you want to do with a feeling, than doing So we put the $5000 down. The man wanted $25,000a job which somebody else says should be done from a for the building and $40,000 for the land contract. We piece of paper. agreed to give him $25,000 for this in one year, but I will guarantee you one thing.If you put your payment at different stages. heart into it and go into these areas and change the The first payment was the $5000, and two months imagebecause the manhood of the home has been lost, afterward $5000 until you paid it out. Five days before the leadership of the home has been lost, it has been the payment, the second payment was due, we didn't lost because the well-fed cats have taken possession of have but $61 in the treasury.I stood up before the man's house. little membership in the organization, and I said to I can't go along with housing projects, because you themthese are all people working in hotels, working give them money. If they would only walk out on their in factories, service stations"Now, look, you believe own and struggle. As long as you have a little shade in self-government. You believe in doing for yourself. you can call your own, it is better than living in some- If you believe in this, then you are going to invest in body else's home. it and you are going to prove that we are going to be To be poor, you have to be down there with them. right." I like our program because we have 100-per-cent place- Two nights after that they walked in with over ment in employment. I mean high employment, not $7000 of that money. They had borrowed on their ac- sweepers and moppers. counts, from their loan companies, credit unions, and General Electric says, "We want X number of ap- finance companies, in order to make the second in- prenticeships in our training program." General Mo- stallment, because we would also have to have money tors had them. Ford said the same thing, and Chrysler for insurance and taxes. and they had them. They had demonstrated to me that this was what We have young men training for branch managers they were willing to do. We will pay them back some for savings and loans, inside of banksonly because

35 everybody to get on board, and Ithink we will run that 26 wonderful men inAmerica sit on our board with us and help us to guide this program. ship. I want you to understandthis. And they are whiteys. I want to thank you. like you out here, are trying to But they are men that, much, Mr. Bush. find the answers to thisproblem, and they are willing toMR. BOOTH: Thank you very And now, if the InterviewingPanel will please re- work with dedication, notwilling to work with just saying there will be a riot.There doesn't have to be a turn to the stage. going to prove it in Michi- We are making, as you willnote, one change in riot in this country. We are member. Let me pre- be one in the City ofDetroit, because the panel. We are adding a new gan. There won't Lumsden of Hartford, Con- the only way you can avoid ariot is by first working sent to you, Mr. Arthur working with handouts, ac- necticut. with the people. Instead of the program back to tually roll up your sleeves and goto work. And, at this time, I will turn Leon Lewis. I work every day.I want to say this to you.We our moderator, Mr. are not going tostand back and continuehaving people in the ghettos, with- MR. LEWIS: Thank you, Mr.Booth. jammed up on welfare, jammed up by the papers that we out first being missionaryworkers ourselves. There I was very much impressed Washington, coming here and have heard today, and I hope you were,too. Maybe the is no use sitting here in little bit, and problems. communications gap has narrowed a telling you about Detroit's better what we have come I will say within the nextcouple of weeks, we have maybe we understand a little network. People are to grips with here. been working in Detroit as a cross-section of it. people. When we unfold thismassive program there, I think we have a pretty good planted, Mr. Chaneles' paper had asociological analysis. you can restassured that it already has been aspect. And Mr. Bush the seeds have been plantedin their level. Mr. Alinsky developed another said, finally, something that manyof us feel from time I will bet you something.This program is right. don't want any to timethat we can do it,if we want to. There is no government money. We from our panel.Let's federal dollars. So you can tellthe federal govern- Now we will have questions ment, "We won't buy yourproposal." hear from Mr. Patterson. Our proposal is to put thepeople, to make them MR. PATTERSON: I wouldlike to direct this question more responsiveand more responsible indeveloping community, with the to Mr. Alinsky.I judge from listening andobserving their own leadership in their own and know-how from business your work, that youhave an understanding of power kind of guidance and technical does, too. this.I would look believe in it.Certainly, I think this audience and industry. I would like to say was built on com- like a fool if I turned aroundand you turned over $5 bil-I think that the American economy I have some petitive enterprise and the useof power, and labor lion to me, and I should run a program. that power and de- can't run a $5 billion program,be- unions came into being to counter sense, but I know I velop a power of their own. And weshouldn't be sur- cause my governmentwould be throwing down $5 bil- prised that Negroes aredeveloping a sense of power to lion in Detroit right now. But, Mr. Alinsky, in I am one of the greatest take what they want, if youwill. I want to tell you this. this particular period, when we aretrying to hold this rabble rousers in the business.When I am with you, against you, I am against country together and keep thesharp edge of racial I am with you, and when I am justify going into a city streets many years ago.I divisiveness down, how do you you.I had my Ph.D. in the discontent, fostering a had my beginning at the ageof 7. When I was 11, I and rubbing raw the sores of revolution, by organizing those inthe underclass of got my B.A. When I was17 I got my M.A. And when rationale for this ? I was 21 years old, I got myPh.D. That is what you American society ? What is your shooting crap, black call from the street of life, from is what is your jack, whatever you want tocall it, because you have MR. ALINSKY: Your question more rationale, because you should bethe first, as a news- me there. what you read in your own I won't let you keep methere, because I do know paperman, not to believe America offers too much. papers. You know that.The whole idea of rubbing raw that I don't have to be there. is what the press has so in the right direction the sores of discontent, which I think that once we start moving frequently tossed at me, will probablywind up on my as a nation, as apeople, there is no problemhere in tombstone.It is just a myth. our society. black ghetto, say, at Somebody said, "You can't doit this way." Some- Do you think when I go into a do it that way." That is the mass invitation of theghetto, that I come in and body else says, "You can't for you. You know that where the problem is. We aregoing to have to take a say, "Look, kiddies, I got news action, draw up the con- you are beingsegregated? You know you arebeing position and take a positive discriminated against? You knowthat you are living in clusions, the direction we aregoing to travel, and tell

36 rat-infested tenements? You know that yourschools MR. PATTERSON:I am looking at a copy of THE in which this article are inferior toother schools?" And I could go on REPORTER. dated March 21, 1968, people do you think other says that you wereretained as a consultant by the Uni- ticking them off: What kind of the anti-poverty people are? versity of Syracuse, and helped set up when a peo- program.It goes on to say that the Negro poorof What does happen is simply thisthat anti-poverty pro- ple feel they can't do anythingabout a condition, then Syracuse wound up taking over the denouncing it, so that OEO stopped you get what I wouldcall a state of mass resignation. gram group and such thing as apathy any- their funds, and the city wound upsplit into two so- It is not apathy. There is no denounce all where in the world. This is just anacceptance. What cieties. And the Negroes of that city now dofight City Hall, or beat your brainsattempts to start the new 0E0 programand are ac- are you going to the poor. out? tively fosterivg discontent among Maybe something will happen sometime,but there Didn't you get a bit of a backfirethere? is nothing to do. So you don'tdo anything.But when I haven't seen that article yet.First you are able tocommunicate within their own areasof MR. ALINSKY: experiencewhich is the only way people cancommuni- of all, the city has always beendividedlike every city, and white before any- cate with anybodyactually,that by organizing and by it was divided. There was black having powerthe ability to act, whichis one meaning thing came along, an 0E0. the whole of thatthat they can do somethingabout it, then sud- Secondly, let me suggestI can dismiss inevitable thread of thing in terms of your own experience, as a newspaper- denly, what was accepted as the that the person life becomes a problem. man.I would like to point out to you Something isn't a problem unless you cando some-who wrote that never contacted me, neverasked me, Suddenly, if there is something you can never interviewed me,and you know what kind of a thing about it. discusses me and do about it, you stand up and startmovingso that to reporting job that would be when he the city at large, which previouslyhad had a nice state what I have done. is always very nice, as Now, we never had a project inSyracuse.I never of peaceful co-existence, which Shriver described long as the other side is williag tobe on the bottom had any confidence in 0E0. Sargent when the people me as the No. 1 enemyof 0E0, when it began. The and co-exist on your termssuddenly, time Shriver lost organize and their organizersbegin to demand a legi- NEW YORK TIMES reporter, the only timate right, then the press, andwhat we roughly call his coolquoting themat the mentionof my name. the "Establishment," status quo, powerstructure, sud- I described 0E0 as a prize pieceof political por- denly, they say, "Look what happened.Everything was nography. of the faculty nice in this town. You know, Alinsky camein and rub- What happened there was that some Look what is hap- were getting a grantfrom OEO to launch a project and bed raw the sores of resentment. and organize pening." they asked me if I would help them tra:in In that kind of a situation, let mepoint out there this.I took the position you could notdo that with fed- said they would has not been violence. You get acommunity, just like eral funds. They then came back and by frustration, defeat, de- contract with me, the contract for mewould be directly an individual, hemmed up have nothing to do spair, no hope, no future, no nothing, no wayof becom- with the University of Syracuse, and ing part of the humanfamilyit finally blows its top. with the federal funds. What happens is a striking out in adeath agony, but I still said I didn't believe I could trainpeople at Wood lawn in when they were on a federal grantthemoment they when a community is organizedlook the funds would Chicago, what happened before I wentin there? The would run into an issue with City Hall, wasn't claiming me be turned off. university, my alma mater, which know that as its alumnus at thetime, was besides itself. They Well, they had friends in Washingtonyou protagonists in jazzand when I then got there, I pointedout very put to shame some of my previous that was just terms of personalizing what went on,and so forth. quickly that we were up against something This was the most horrible thingthat could hap- impossible. After it happened, they are the first to- No. 1.In our own experience of trainingorgani- pen to them. 70-per-cent washout at the end of day to saythank God for The Woodlawn Organization. zers, we have had a And now, as far as the violencetherehasn't been 90 days, and every one that they hadappointed as an violence. As far as programsthere areall kinds of organizer had a one-year fellowship,which meant that them. They were there for a year. joint programs. you couldn't scrub Whatever you do, don't you make themistake which When you have a training group,let's say, if 50 or disqualifiedbut I always have to be onguard against.I have to be on 70 per cent, at the end of 90 days, are read myself. Don't they are still on the staffyou can imaginewhat this guard not to believe the stuff that I made it im- you make the mistakeabout the stuff that is written. would mean in your own business. That possible.

37 Also, without laboring it any furtherbecause I to come into the black community to organizethan the was only there two days amonth, and only for the ten black community has to go in to organize whites. monthsand the pressagain, all I have to do islook at I thought Chicago would teach a lot of people a a town, and suddenly, it isall mebut never was I on lesson.If, out of Wood lawn we took 30 to 40 people of that project. our black people, sent them to LakeForestwhich is It is just like I have told you.I never had a single our swanky suburban areaand,after getting past the organizer, had nothing to do, to say aboutpolicy, or butler, they pointed out that they had read about teen- anything else. age drunkenness and illegitimacy ofkids, high divorce rates, and all the problems that the rich had, andhere MR. LEWIS: May I say again that cards arebeing they were to organize them on a self-help basisand distributed again for your questions. There willbe an program. How do you think the Lake Forestpeople hour in which we will try to get in as manyof your will react? questions as we can. You might be lucky. There is no difference in the way any other com- Mr. Alinsky is going to be forced toleave us earlymunity would react. We know we can't organizeall the and maybe, if you gentlemen on the panel on myleft communitiesto begin with, that isn't our function. want to talk to him before he has totake off, this is theWe went into organizing only one blackcommunity, time to do it. Wood lawn, to prove it can be done. That isthe first Mr. Lumsden. one that has been organized on a massbasis, and after that we were disengaging and organizinglow-income MR. LUMSDEN: Mr. Alinsky, you havehad a lot of ex-communities, low-income Mexican-American com- perience in organizing the poor, maybe some success- munitieswhich we have been doing. ful, and some unsuccessful, in Mr. Patterson'sjudg- Then pressures came from the ghettosthemselves. ment, but if we are to give these peoplepart of the That is the only reason we have been hung up forthe decision-making processand I think weshouldhow last six or seven yearsso much that we haven'tinter- would I go to Hartford and organize the poor, orwould viewed a white applicant for a staff job during thelast I just retain you to do it? And can you goto all the six or seven years. cities in America at the same time?Tell me how to We are going into a training institute totrain peo- of organize the poor. ple how to do this. There is a tremendous dearth competent organizers. If you don't have competent MR. A LINSKY: In the first place, you arenot going to people to do the job and know how to do it andknow the organize the poor, nobody in here is. You aregoing to circumstancesand only democratic circumstances have a kind of confrontation with yourselfthat I was under which it can be done, it is just money down the talking about in my previous brief remarks herein drain. terms of rationalewhere there willbe changes within I would like to take this one opportunity tomake all of youso that you won't think in termsof these one other point. We havealways taken the position that self-financed from the minute people. an organization must be we begin. We areconstantly being toldLook, we don't MR. LUMSDEN: Tell me what you do andhow you do care how poor you are, aslong as you are dependent it. upon downtown white money, youhave the collar on, and you have a leash on you, and the minute you start MR. ALINSKY: There is a mental attitudethere which cutting an issue, which they don't like, theywill turn it must be cleared up among allof you. off, just as quickly as 0E0which is what happened in Now, as part of the actual organizationworkit Rochester. When four settlement houses in theblack cannot be done, except by people who areexperienced ghetto voted to affiliate with FIGHT, the nextMonday organizers in terms of tactics, in termsof commit- the Community Chest of Rochester announcedthat their ment, in terms of integrity, in termsof intelligence, inbudgets would be re-evaluatedwhich is a polite way terms of really knowing the business. of saying, "Get in line or else." So they voted todis- They also have a kind of philosophy in thetruest affiliate. democratic sense, where they do not think aslocal However, being a prime mover in terms of self- powers do. This is not aquestion of what things are fundingand they do fund, as Mr. Bush pointed out done, but how they are done. They would notthink, for there are many ways the funds can be raised. example, of going into a community to go aheadand Let me point out, when you go for massivechanges organize. They wouldit would depend upon asituationin terms of employment, in terms of housingthereis that could very easily developwhere canthey be in- no sense in our kiddingourselves in a romanticized funds, vited in. idea, that we can do it alone. We have to have This is an essential first stepby thepeople either from so-called private sectors, corporatefunds, themselves. Let me put it a little moresuccinctly. or from the government sectorwith asfew strings on The community has no more businessinviting anyone them as possible. You can get it, if you are strong

38 enough. We know we are getting it in Wood lawnfrom I have made sort of a negative comment on one different departments, Labor, and so forth. aspect. On the other hand, there are a numberof as- Let me say to you, however, that with my position pects I could speak very positively about, and Ifeel are against government support, government funding, so hopeful now. much so that I have been very embarrassed by the em- brace of NAM on that one level, nevertheless, judging DR. CLARK: Given your hope, what is thebasis or from the reactions of the so-called private sector, be- what will determine when the society will notto use yond their verbal statements, we are finding ourselves your wordskick to death with meetingsand dialogues turning more and more to Washington, over our own this issue as a way of postponing acting upon it?All feelings. Because more and more, we are saying, un- you point to really has been meetings. less there is a reversaland I certainly hope there is we are saying the mostmilitant dialogue out of the pri- MR. ALINSKY: No, I think it is the standard thing in vate sector, what they are trying to do constitutes just the world today. There are a number of criteria, as dribbles of action, and this country can't wait. you know, that make up theworld as it is. And one is that the right thing is always done for the wrong rea- MR. LEWIS: Did you have a follow-up question, sons, and the wrong reasons areall over the place. Mr. Lumsden? Business can't stand much more of what is happening here. Certainly, the insurance companies are very MR. LUMSDEN: No. much up in the air about it.You don't think the insurance companies would have gone in forall this mas- MR. LEWIS: Dr. Clark. sive investment in low-cost housing, etc., for purely altruistic, humanitarian reasons, any more than any DR. CLARK: I was interested in following Mr.Alinsky'sother group or nation operates on that basis? frequent use of the analogue of psychiatry, particularly The political situation, the economic pressures, in terms of what you feel is the first step onthe part all of thesejust the same reason why the churches of the white sector of our society. Continuing that have gone to Christianity. With all the mass media, analogue, what is your prognosis? To what extent do they could no longer proselyte all over the world on the you believe that it is possiblefor those who control basis of the great doctrine of Christianity without what happens in our society to be able to take thisfirstdrawing a color linenot with the television and the jet step of clarification rather than continued dependence and modern communications. And you know, before upon past rationale? this, they could do this, and still be segregated back here at home. Those days are over with, and they are MR. ALINSKY: Ken, I happen to be in the verydistinct over with for every sector of society,including all minority. I have never felt so optimistic about the these business groups out here. future of our country as I have this year. They are going to start finding out what Coca-Cola Now, what has happened as a consequence of this found out in Atlanta. With their world market having violence, etc., is what was mentioned, I think, in the non-whites coming to Atlanta, for them it was em- paper. There was a hiddenaffliction that nobody wantedbarrassing for them to suddenly see white and colored to face up to. And you couldn't get it diagnosed aslong bathrooms. And Atlanta became one of the most for- as you never went to the doctor onthe thing. Now it is ward cities in the Souit, for the wrong reason. But out in the open. Who would have thought youcould havethat is the way life is. The wrong reasons are all over a meeting of this Chamber ofCommercemaybe some the place for us. So things look good. people would have, I would never have thought so, two or three years ago. Now that itis out in the open and MR. SMITH: I hate to make this a dialogue between without other factors that are involvedthe whole Mr. Alinsky and the rest of us at this end of the table; world situation, which keeps pressing inwe, ob- however, I did have a question that I want to direct to viously, this country cannotit simply cannot go into, him. for example, a state of violence, as many fear, if for It was said that, with considerable reluctance, you no other reason thanthat it would cost us.It would be had to look more and more to the federal government, a world political disaster.As far as we are concerned,because you got mostly talk and very little action from the vast mass of the world population is non-white.If the private sector. Here this afternoon you have a we permitted this kindof a situation to explode without chance to tell the private sector what kind of action you any major concessions orrearrangements, we might think ought to be undertaken by the private sector. You just as well get out of the world arena. will never get a better chance than this group of people. The world cannot be handled with a policy of iso- I would like to hear from you the steps that you lation any more. We are behind that. I feel there will think we in the private sector ought to be taking to try be a good deal of self-confrontation. A lotof it is tak- to alleviate this problem that concerns all of us, or we ing place now. wouldn't be here today.

39 MR. ALINSKY: Remember the opening remark I made school, and suppose we go and learn how to be a was that you have to work on a local basis. The local plumber or an electrician or tile setter, and so forth, problems have to be discussed. But let me try out somewhat good will it do us, if we can't get into the union? general statements. You are up against that. That is another battle- I think one is that it is a mistake for you in the pri-front. vate sector to encourage a lot of these romantic, little What I am suggesting, however, is that there be fantasies about just having black-owned property, like the kind of development of industries within a com- a grocery store, as I heard last week in New Yorka munity, with a black community, owned by the black lot of jazz. A guy from Watts really believed this. community. If you have the organization such as you They are having a little chicken farm and sell some have in Rochestertake FIGHT, it is today engaged in eggs. negotiations that appear very promising, with an or- These are the days of the corporate economy. ganization that has shown imagination, and the fact These are no longer the days ofwell, you know, free that it is alive in this century, to wit, Xerox. enterprise has been dead for at least two generations In setting up a factory, FIGHT will go ahead and in this country and all over the world. When you get a incorporate a separate corporation, be the owners of little independent store in a ghetto, for example, the it.The funding, the job trainingthe government can only way you can possibly stay alive in trying to com- cut in on a piece of that on the job-training program. pete with the supermarket, is (1) to extend credit, and But then the important issue is that it makes sure it (2) it stays open to all hours.It barely makes it.The goes. In order for it to go, it must be part of the other stores make it on the basis of terrifically high corporate economywhich means it literally becomes charges, concealed costs, installments, and so forth, a subcontractor for a major corporation with its prod- and so on. Those places do not provide jobs. They mayucts having a ready market right there. be an interesting thing for a little newspaper story. But And it is here you start getting clusters of jobs, suppose Sam gets a gas stationin the first place, it and you start moving into the American economy. has to be part of a whole network. It has to be Standard I don't know whom I am talking to here. When I or Shell, or part of a major gas operation. am talking to major corporations, there are certain People are saturated constantly on our television approaches of the kinds I have just mentioned that I screensand every place they turn to with the whole would urge. When I am talking to smaller businesses advertising medium, if you want gas, you get platfor- in smaller communities, made up of chambers of mate. You need this ingredient. You will not just go commerce as I have known themthey are druggists, to Sam's gas station. You will not know what gas you real estate operators, etcthen you have a different are getting and, assuming he makes it, so what has it approach. got? Eight or ten jobs. While you are talking about They fall in all kinds of levels. The real estate jobs, you are talking in terms of a corporate economy. dealers, the real estate agents, who belong to chambers Not that these things are not good, not that revis- of commerceif they really carried out a campaign in ing all of our personnel procedureswhich is one of terms of open housing, it could be the single most ef- the big things as far as getting the jobs and not recog- fective force for breaking through a lot of these segre- nizing the fact that there have been special considera- gated patterns, if they do so. tions. For example, the corporation may have a certain I mean really do so. Most of them have the same test, an eligibility test. A white high-school graduate kind of resolutions of open occupancy that the building will approach that test vis a vis a black high-school trades unions have for open membership, but it doesn't graduatethat white high-school graduate has a very mean anything.I cannot deal beyond general terms. definite advantage. This is common knowledge, in The only time we can become specific is in a specific terms of the quality of education, etc., etc. situation. Either the tests should be administered six months later after the black person is hired, or there should MR. PATTERSON: I don't want to overwork you, but I be a different kind of test because, as the tests stand want one more shot at you. right now, it is a discriminatory test.This just doesn't apply, incidentally, to the busiress sector. MR. ALINSKY: Keep shooting. The organization of President Johnson, that he addressed yesterday, has one of the worst records of MR. PATTERSON: What is in it for this group of men segregation of any organization I know of in the United in the audience to go out and organize trouble for them- States.I am referring to the building trades unions. selves? Not many of us in business organize unions in This created another very difficult problem. How can our plants.I am trying to understand your rationale. I say to kids, as I was saying to them back in Wood- And this is a serious question, because I happen to be- lawn six or seven years agoto the dropouts, "Why lieve that the new pragmatism among the Negroes is don't you go to a trade school?" When these kids offset by the pragmatism of the business community of turned to me and said, "Suppose we go to a trade this countrythat if we ever got working together it

40 might turn out pretty welland it strikes me that you back in 1835was that, if you ever had a large sector are something of a prober and bridgerhere.I can see of our population politically and economically disen- an edge of your rationale, and allof us who have been francished, that would become malignant and bring the in the strike situation would really rather be dealing house down. That was the reason why de Tocquville in with a strong union than a weak one, because, when you 1835 said that the hopes for the future of this new way sign a contract, it is signed. of life depended on the next revolution, which he called When you look at it from the worker's side, you the Negro revolution. would rather sign with a strong union. From this point Now, one interest for them is a lot of these guys of view, I recognize that it would be in the best interest have made do. They have accounts. They have fam- to organize the poor.I recognize that a business doesn'tilies. And one of the things that they are concerned have a market if the market is burned up. about is having their children grow up, and their chil- Why are you here suggesting to these people that dren's children, in this kind of a free way of life. And organizing the Negro poor in their own cities is good they are not going to have it unless we can enfranchise business for them, as opposed to making trouble for this large sector of our population.So, on a pure po- themselves. litical, self-interest basis, it becomes imperative for them to do this, instead of futzin' around with goof pots, MR. ALINSKY: This may seem like a digression.I like the John Birch Society, and all this current jazz, will take your question head-on--but I get so weary aboutto save a free way of life. this "making trouble". I think that the most subversive This is one thing. force and influence that has ever come to American The second thing is that the world has gotten so societyit has put us into a state of crisisis what I small and is constantly getting smaller, as mass media would call Madison Avenue public relations, middle- and as transportation and as our economy become class moral hygienewhich has made controversy and more and more intertwined, that we nolonger can live conflict an ugly word, and which has made consensus, alone. We no longer can. And as a consequence, in which includes the Administration, a desirable thing. order to live with the rest of the world, we have to This is so contrary to the whole spirit and whole have the kind of situation here at home, other-/ise we nature of a free democratic society, because it has are politically dead. made us allergic to the whole idea of controversy. I never had a question that the '54 Supreme Court Suddenly, we back up"making trouble", as we put it. decision would have come, regardless of anything.It It seems to me that conflict and controversy is the had to. Politically, we were faced all over the world very essence of a free society.If you want consensus, with the vast bulk of the non-whites, with our prop- if you want this kind of order, you go to a totalitarian aganda vis a vis the communist propaganda points at society, where you have concensus.If you don't agree us, our problem was, "Don't judge us by whathappens with the consensus, you go to the ovens. down South. We have problems there. We will try to If I were to project the whole American dream as work it out.It will work out sometime. So, when we a musical score, I believe dissonancewould be its are talking about America, the land offreedom and theme. Conflict is something that we shouldwelcome. equality, we are talking about the federal government. Every creative idea, everything creative and going How could they carry out that line, as long as you had ahead with life, comes out of a matrix of controversy. a Supreme Court holding separatebut equal? The moment you develop a new idea that promptly These world pressures are constantly upon us. challenges the prevailing old idea, you have a hassle These businessmen are finding that their market is going. dependent upon this world situation. Look at the way I say this by way of putting a question, and this al- it cuts in on this Viet Nam thing. ways comes up the same way. Why should they want We have to get our house in order for the first trouble? Trouble becomes some negative thing, and time. It is not that our house is out of order now. This it is so awful.It shouldn't benot in our system. It is the hardest thing I have to get across to you. Our shouldn't be something that you just back away from house has been out of order all these years. Now is the and you saybecause it is trouble, and so on. first time we have admitted that our house is out of Now, I think we are all in very deep trouble in our order, and suddenly, we start saying, "Let's put it to- own society. That is the only way I can answer you, as gether." to what is the reason why we should do it.I believe It never was together beforeunless you consider de Tocquville was right.I believe the fears that Jeff- the fact that you had some millions of people that you erson and Jay and Madison hadthat theydidn't know were kicking the hell out of in the worstpossible way where this democratic dream was going to take us. and they weren't hitting back, that everything was fine. They did believethey had complete faith that it would Well, it wasn't. take us to an ever better life in this "pursuit ofhap- All right? piness", and that the only thing that could bring it downand this was the point de Tocquville made 'way MR. PATTERSON: All right.

41 MR. LUMSDEN: I would like to ask this questionof of our school teachers. Bussing isn't the answer to Dr. Chaneles, and the other panelists.I have been quality education." hearing that the Negro has become disenchanted with It may be that quality education is more import- government, local government. And I understand that ant than integrated education. they would like to keep the status quo. They are in You have mentioned housing. There is some good power, the Democratic party in mostof our cities, and housing in Hartford.It is one of the most exciting the last great hope is private enterprise, and Mr. cities on the East Coast, but the best part of Hartford Alinsky says it is corporate enterprise, corporate is a part where very few Negroes ever get to move paternalism. around in. In Hartford we builtthe chamber and business You mentioned job opportunities, job programsin thereyou talk about the same thing, you talk about the Hartford. The Negroes hold the lowest level jobs. They corporationswe built the first integrated housing in are marginal jobs. They offer no future. Thejobs are the city eight years ago, had it up, and it is still there. intrinsically unintr resting. We started a poverty program and financed it the year The local gyvernment in one of the richest cities before President Johnson made a federal case out of it. in the country has no real honest Negro voice speaking We guaranteed in writing a job to any personwilling for the Negro community. There are a lot of stooge and able to work, and said this thing. groups there. And there is a lot ofpie-in-the-sky Right now we have a housing fund in our chamber talking, but very little day-to-day answers to many of that is currently building 2000 =its, in eight months. the problems in Hartford. We are bussing Negro kids to the suburbs. We aredo- Now, getting back to the tone of the paper about ing every damn thing, every program we everheard what is happening in Hartford and in other cities where about being done and bragged about all over the coun- there have been expressions of very serious discon- try, plus about twenty more we have invented ourselves.tent, I think there are a number of things that go on in We have organized the poor, and as a result, we Hartford along the lines I mentioned. Look around and have more agencies which are financed to duplicate ask, "Who owns the houses of prostitution? What what another agency isn't doing, because they built would be the reaction of the Negro community if they themselves into a bureaucracy. found out that the United States government was spend- Now, in your paper, Dr. Chaneles, you say that ing hundreds of millions of dollars a year in foreign Hartford will have a riot. What the hellwe are work- aid in agriculture to countries at the eastern endof ing our tails off.The Negroes agree the business the Mediterranean to grow the opium poppy, which is community is doing these things. We may not be doing then transported to clandestine laboratories at the enough. western end of the Mediterranean for manufacture into When I testified before the National Commission onheroin, which is then imported into Hartford, to kill Civil Disorders, they applauded when I listed the pro- the spirit and create a drag on the entire population grams. through the use of heroin?" Now, why am I going to have a riot? Why don't you There are guns moving into Hartford. It is one of tick off the cities in your paper, so the ''est of these the stopping-off places in a general distribution of people should understand my frustration? small arms through upstate New York. I want them to join me in this trouble. What have you got in answer to your question that was implicit, "What do you want?" I would say that there is no single answer to the DR. CHANELES: That is pretty well stated, Mr. Lums-question about the urban poor, or the urban Negro. den. Again, you have a bag of tricks that is in that one The right to organize implies the right to remain un- question. organized. The right to join implies the right to be I am just going to try to take them apart and see left alone. It would be a mistake to proceed under one if I can't get at them one at a time. assumption that organization or joining or any other The tone that ran through your question, Mr.Lums-single program is going to provide the answer. You den, was, in effect, you are speaking to the Negro and have to know the people in the community. You have to saying to them, "Well, what do you want?" And no one hear them. You have to listen to the things that they authorized me to speak for the Negro, but I would say are capable of articulating, andthe things that go un- that the answer is from their standpoint, "Whathave said, because they don't know how to say thembut they you got?" are very valuable clues to what isgoing on. The listing of bussing to schoolsyou havegot to Let me just mention that one of the most searing look at what kind of schools you are talking about. tragedies in American life today is the fact that people Rochester tried bussing, and I think they regretted it. who have the power of the purse strings have no hesita- I have heard school superintendents in thelast few tion in spending and seeing extravagant sums of money months stand up and say to groups just like this,"If we wasted, but when it comes to giving money to people to had our way, we would get rid of 50 per cent or more say, "We are big enough to take care of some money,

42 being that of power, and do some useful thing with it,"then the house comes You :ire thinking of a coin as they %%ant to see but the other side is people. Evenin a political elec- down. The% want to see progranls, how many votes you express;ons in formal quasi-ac:ulemiclanguage, :itxuit tion, your money is only good tor and methodolog%, can get with it.By that I mean, how muchtelevision goals aml priorities, and objectives, workers, how much advertis- until it comes out of their ears. time, how many campaign of ex-offenders who ing, and so forth.But all the time, it is only goodin There is a group in IIa rtford produces at the ballot box, know damn well how to take careof other ex-offenders. terms of how many votes it Let them take and vou do have a political power now. I would say, "Give them some money. election. And you have care of them." You have seen it in the last to get over this notionof, "We did this, and we didthat." answer, Mr. All right, so, assuming that a blackorganized MR. LEWIS: Do vou think vou got an bureaucracyas it will Lumsden? communit% does become a when the have-nots become thehaves, they are part I haven't heard anythingthat anybody of the haves. Color doesn't cut. Sowhat? MR. LI.:ISDEN: and therein lies the big has suggested our corporationsought to do that we are But it is their bureaucracy, not doing. Maybe it is toolittle and maybe it is too difference. late. We have Negro officers illinsurance companies I guess the only thing I can dois repeat again a we have the whole bit. We arenot talking about Negro story that somc of you mayhave read. How many of opportunity, we are talking aboutpreferential oppor- you ever read theAUTOBIOGRAPHY OF LINCOLN tunity.If you are a Negro and walk intothe personnel STEFFENS, an old, old book? department, you get a job.If you are white, "We will Steffens tells a tale about how hebecame friendly with Judge Gary, head of United StatesSteel, at the interview you." and he asked Stef- We have given money to thepeople. We have let time, and Gary was going to Europe, doing while Gary was them organize their own programs,and then they get fens what Steffens was going to be going to run the program?gone, and Steffens said, "Iwill be around New York." into a power strugglewho is apartment?" I am very frustrated.I am going to keep doing And Gary said, "Why don't you use my more and adding more,and I am going to hope that And Steffens said, "Fine, I will." Hartford will show the rest of the countryhow to solve And then, for some reason, Garyraised a ques- helped me. tion as to what Steffens woulddo in the apartment. this problem, but you haven't bed and I will I must tell you we solved allthe social problems "For one thing, I will be in my own of the panel at the bar last nightbut weforgot the have my own desk, and so on." solution, so I have to ask the questionsagain. And Gary hit the roof. "What do you mean, you will bring in your own bed.I have the most expensive MR. LEWIS: Mr. Minsky, do you want ashot at Mr. bed you can get in the United States.I have the finest Lumsden's question? desk," and so forth. And Steffens looked at him andsaid, "Judge, you just a two-bit MR. A LINSKY: Well, what Iwould be doing here would didn't seem to understand. My bed is from a different set of operation, but it is my bed." be, more or less, paraphrasing big change, actually facts what Mr. Chaneles has beensaying. And this is the big lessonthat You are looking for what you can'tfind any place. one of the biggestrevolutionary changes is what you And literally, on any major problem, everytime we have to faceand that is in termsof the way you ap- Bountiful business, have had a crisis in this country,there has always beenproach the whole thing. This Lady this request for a formula, a political oreconomic giving -o charity, and CommunityChest and endowing prescription. You can take this anddo this, and, there-settlement houses, and all of that stuff, andhaving this fore, the patient will be cured, and thiswill happen. feelingthose days are gone, and what Mr.Chaneles But in the politics of lifelife justdoesn't operate that says is absolutelyright. about goals way. When you start talking to somebody What we are trying to get across to youis that you and priorities and chart of organizationand all those have to get rid of the idea that you aregoing to be doing other thingsthose are the things that arewithin your things for the blacks. This colonialmentality is some- experience, but they are not within theexperience of thing that is out.It is out all over the world. the other side. Ironically, America, the least colonialcountry of And that is where you have to deal withit, because all, has more of this mentality here athome. You havethis is the way life is. to accept the fact that you are goingto work with people working out programs MR. LEWIS: Gentlemen, I thinkthat you as businessmen and work with them in terms of that where they will be, in fact, equals.The fact that you might approach a new market in the same manner bring in the have money is just one side of the coin. this problem might be approached. You

43 market, you have to get com- This is the only survivalproblem that we think we experts, you study your hoeing, gimmicking programsand po- petitive, you have todevelop a campaign, youhave to can solve by ad with is litical verbalization. arrange, and theonly thing you have to start Mr. Lumsden, that if you the fact that it is yourknowledge that you have a poten- May I suggest to you, want to save yourselffrom really being inundatedwith tial market. You developit, and you sell it. frustration, thatand if this group, atough- Here you have a potentialmarket for both skilled a sense of minded, tough-thinkingbusiness group, is reallyseri- labor and an outlet for yourproduct, and you sort of first things that way. You study it andplay ous about thisproblemI think one of the have to approach it in that they would do is to suggestrather seriously a it all by ear.It is something youhave done very well, that moratorium on irrelevantdiscussions, and insist not looking at the GNP. So maybe youcan see it from the government is already do, you would see it as aprob- that the governmentbecause point of view and if you level, on the commission capabilities. committed to a discussion lem that is not beyond your level, of postponingreally cometo grips with the I think I have anotherquestion here, which came It may be that would like to tie to this aslong problem and in terms ofdefinition. from the floor, which I business and industrial leaders,who are really sensi- as we are here.Someone wants to know whatMr. urban problem is as much a Lumsden's question would be. tive to the fact that the Bush's answer to Mr. survival problem for this nation asany of the othersI Do you think you have an answerto that? have mentioned, wouldthemselves establish a consor- of addressing ourselves first like to express sympathy tium for the specific purpose DR. CLARK: I would to this problem in the wayin which we have addressed for Mr. Lumsden'sfrustration.It seems like that is frus- ourselves to similar problems.That you would buy the one of the thingsthat is being spread all over, provide them with a deadlinein be that we look for models. best brains available, tration. The answer would terms of years to come upwith the most precisedefini- The Urban DisturbanceCommission raised the same for the purposes of just more which was asked of me, tion of the problem, not question in a different version, diagnosis, but for the purposesof action, arrangements and I would like to try on you,Mr. Lumsden, the answer of this which are in the interestsof the society, the kinds I gave to them. Theystarted out by saying how into account the factthat it has society meets crises. Theissue really is not a new action which would take has met seemingly one crisis to be in the not toolong-run, profitable. one. American society It has to take into account theinterests of the poor after another, certainly in myadulthood. above all, it has to find There was the crisis of PearlHarbor, and after and middle-class whites and, some way of dealingwith these problems in waysthat Pearl Harbor, there was thecrisis of the cold war, hand of racism, that the basic defense system that would will free it from the dead and the need to develop a survival problem has to beredefined away from race, assure the maximumamount of security that onecould because I personally amcommitted in one way, and assure in this time. hypotheses I would offer tothis "Urban Af- Then there was the crisisof space and space ex- one of the important crisis that fairs Rand" would be that itwould be impossible for ploration, and I left out a very urban stability and urban of a crumbling econ- America to really solve its preceded World War II, the crisis long as race dominates, that omy. If we look atthese models, each had in common poverty problem as survival, which I think America never solves aproblem when race is the with the others the factor of problem. makes all of these criticalsituations appropriate to salient factor of that urban instabilities. And we One of the charges I wouldgive to this group the present situation of our defining the problem, so society did when it was would be that it find a way of look back and see what the is possible. serious about each ofthese crises. We see onething that action independent of race gimmick. that it didn't do.It did not ad hoc, it did not final question from Mr. commissions for public dialogue MR. LEWIS: We will hear a It didn't appoint public Smith, who seems to beshaking his head. as such.In each case, the societyindicated its seri- ousness and its concernfor survival by buying thebest MR. SMITH:I want to thank Dr.Clark.I think he has brains it could and makingavailable to them the re- suggestion, which is some- sourcesthe economic resourcesand all the other re- come up with a concrete thing I have been looking forall day. sources that wouldbe needed to define theseproblems programmatically and to assurethat, once the best the possibility of a vehicle related to definition of these MR. CLARK: I also have definition and programs if he really is serious. We mayhave the beginnings problems were arrived at,that they would be imple- of a vehicle. mented. We certainly did this in thedepression. We did question to Mr. did it in nuclear weaponry.We MR. SMITH: But to throw one more it in World War I. We Alinsky. As I said here a moment ago,I have been did it in space.

44 positive ac- have never raised such questions,for example, when searching all day long for some concrete like tion that we might take, we inthe private sector. You we had a crisisduring an emergency situation that Xerox World War II. We had rent controls,price controls, have suggested one thing in this program, and started saying has to establish a meaningful,sizable corporation, ts all those things. Nobody got up by the poor and operated by What is going to happen to thecompetitive system? I understand, to be owned has kicked itself out them. This suggests to methat this must have to be And we have, now that this thing fashion, from under the carpet, a situationthat demands eco- subsidized by Xerox, or somebody, in some different and which should initially, to get started. Otherwise,it would have oc- nomic procedures which are if the funds were avail- be thought of in the same light aswhen we have shifted curred almost automatically, levels in meeting other crises. able by any other means.If we expand this kind of over into other economic program and spreadit all across the country,where DR. CLARK: But, Saul, whydo you think that we can a thousandcorporations do thiswhathappens to our free economy? What happens to ourcompetitive ad hoc our way out of this? have 1000 subsidized economy? If we are going to what? companies, what happens to mybusiness in Cleveland, MR. ALINSKY: Why do I think Ohio, if somebody else issubsidizing another company MR. CLARK: Why do you think we canad hoc our way to take business awayfrom me? Ikm do we handle this kind of question? Are wetalking about a completelyout of this crisis? what this country has Could it not be that we areapproaching this prob- different economic system than it as essen- grown up under? lem this way because we continue to see tially a racist problem ratherthan an urban-survival MR. ALINSKY: Are you suggestingthat the prices of problem? basis between the automobiles are on a competitive have been trying to say different automobile producers? MR. ALINSKY: That is what I all this time, and what I tried to sayin the paper. That confronted it. We don't want to MR. SMITH:I think it is pretty competive.Certainly is the reason we never in my business it is competitive. confront it. economists in MR. CLARK: My point is that you,tooand I often, too MR. ALINSKY: There are a great many gameWhat about this this country who would raise adifferent question in have often been a part of this market, and so forth.I don't program and thatprogram? What about this? When terms of controls of the and looked at this problem think this economy has alwaysbeen changing.I think it actually we have not sat down people still hold to a comprehensively, and attempted todeal with this in has changed beyond that which approach rather than gimmick. rationale of the past. This is whatI was talking about terms of an integrated beforerationalethat you really begin tobelieve it, instead of what the facts are. Just aswhen you talk MR. ALINSKY:I haven't found that. That is whyI difficult, at keep coming back to a local situation.I could have about your private sector, it becomes very This is what Wood lawn times, to draw the line betweenwhat is private and said, take a look at Wood lawn. the vast government was six or seven years ago.Th:s is what it is today what is public, when you consider It is the only com- contracts that go into the privatesector, the vast num- in terms of jobs, urban renewal. the public sector's munity in the country that notonly has contfol of bers of your consumers who are on It is its own developer, pay rolls. planning its urban renewal. of Chicago in the which means, for the first time, asfar as I know, it I have friends on the North Shore building trades unions and suburbs, who are always complainingabout government will be able to turn to the socialism coming into the picture, and the moneygoing say, "We have thesemillions of dollars of federal The pitch about this funds, local funds, for our urbanrenewal rrogram. to the poor, and stuff like this. people unless you break situation usually comes when driving downthe express- We will not hire any of you is 90 per cent or betterfederal down the segregated practicesof your union, in terms way or freeway, which kinds of programs." You funds. They don't complain about itthat way, then. of job placement and various gets go into specifics. Apparently, socialism is when the other guy develop on a questions.I Rochester, as it will develop, will it, not you. You certainly don't raise all will be dif- haven't heard about attacks on the vastamount of fed- different line. So will Buffalo. They supports, and ferent.I don't know of an integratedgeneral program eral funds going into agricultural price the economy as a whole any more so forth, as well asin the production part of it. you can have for that we are in a than they can have for theirbusiness.It isn't that Now, what I am suggesting here is basically drastically changing economy, andhave been for some simple. This is the problem that we are do we do about specific faced with, Kenneth, and really cutthe issue down as time. And if the issue is what of questions we are crises and specific problemsthat now confront uswe of right here. And these kinds

45 situation that there was a high getting here ask for simple answers,and there are no was my reading of the simple answers. probability of a disturbance or incident. Where I had, on the basis ofresearch in the field, there was a political framework, MR. LEWLS: Ladies andgentlemen, we seem to have reason to believe that going, and because it seems to me I specified that these cities wereripe for riots. a little something It would take much too important, I would like to continuethe discussion for I will tick off the cities. long to indicate the spread of theclusters of indicators just a moment. low probability or no prob- Mr. Lumsden. and the statement of high or ability where I had no information,but here they are, and I am going to, as I said, introduce my ownbag of MR. LUMSDEN:I feel a little less frustrated,thanks "Organize the poor. They tricks at the end. to Dr. Clark. Minsky says, Hartford, Washington, should be organized." San Francisco, Bridgeport, certainly, in my office every D. C., Miami, Tampa, Chicago,Indianapolis, Kansas In my town they are, Massachusetts, Detroit, day, and we do work with them. Welearned a year or City, New Orleans, Springfield, And while we need really Minneapolis, Newark, Albany, New YorkCity, Rochester, two ago not to do it for them. Milwaukee, At- instant projects and instantgoals, like the jet age needs Youngstown, Philadelphia, San Antonio, instant money and instantcoffee, we have been explor- lanta, Cincinnati. approach with some The question that has been coming upall day is ing this consortium of a systems the projects? What of the chief executive officersof major companies, to What are the answers? What are would define the entity of are the programs thatprivate industry can undertake? take the total entity. And we feel a little bit like in a the city of Hartford, plus what wewould have to use to I will suggest a few. But I situation of the soap manufacturertelling other soap get the job done. manufacturers what his secrets are. I amin the busi- We have developed with Mr.Rouse, who developed rebuild a city, if ness of finding outwhat programs are going to work.I Columbia, whether it is possible to outside experts to you could build a new one acouple of miles outside. don't think you ought to call in any I would like build or recommend programs to you,until you have He said he thought it would becheaper. commitment and cap- to see it explored by othercommunities, because we assessed your own interests and abilities to solve these problems with aview toward can't find the answers yet. doing good, or It must not be another glorifiedstudy project.I making a profit, or with a view toward can put all thestudies on social problems wehave in whatever your motivation is. do anything else with it, These things have to be done. our colliseum, if we never ghetto. A lot of but it has to be a prior commitmentby private enter- There is money to be made in the cheaper for private enter-- people are raping the ghetto'streasury. You will hear prise, and I think it will be about some of the prise to do it, to do the total entity,to do the total from Seymour Wolfbein tomorrow community physically, spiritually,culturally. potentialities there. ask the audience Back last fall, I recommended to aconsortium of I like Dr. Clark's suggestion and perfectly approp- to go home and come up with some answersto use for businessmen that it would seem to me riate for them to set up in theirorganization structure, me in my frustration. research and development unit to I asked you to tick off the cities,Dr. Chaneles. an urban problems I don't want to think Hartford give some thought to how tosolve problems in the ghetto Why don't you do that? time. is the only one that has a highprobability of a riot.I and solve corporate needs at the same here, and I want I would add emphaticallyMr.Clark observed that have a lot of distinguished company specific and hard-nosed time- them to hear who they are. it is important to put a table on what they come up withatimetable in coming I will tick them off, and Iwould like up with plans and atimetable for completing or imple- DR. CHANELES: of the community. to tick off a few other things on mymind and in my bag menting them, with the cooperation that you will get. There are some things that have come to myat- of tricks in the paper, the longer one things, that look They are all ticked off, and therationale for them is tentionnot a few, but hundreds of statement. most promising. There arecompanies that are trying spelled out, along with a methodological materials. They Let me just say a few words aboutthe relevant out low-cost building rehabilitation available in the ghetto areas. There cities where I think we will havepolitically articulated are making these probabilities. are companies that aredeveloping new educational de- riots this year.I am speaking of high classrooms more exciting Last year I made some unqualifiedpredictions, which signs that would make the tragically came to pass. But I think itis much more fcr Negro youngsters, who don'thave adequate educa- What I tional incentives in their homes.There are three difficult to make a prediction here this year. do here. One did was to look at those 17 indicators,grouped into 5 types of things that private industry can clusters, is to strengthen some very good programsthat are al- clusters. And where there were 2 or more working well at the local that had high prevalence in the 100 citiesI looked at, it ready in operation, but aren't

46 level.You probably know much better than I do what MR. L EWIS:I have another one you %OH like, Mr. the hang-ups are at the local level. Alinsky.If you were the Mayor of a Southern city I think that these programs have got to be strengthened. Many busy businessmen spent many desultory MR. A LINSKY: That is known as a really academic hours sitting on community chests and hospital boards, question. and thinking about things there in the abstract, most Although, I don't know, I might have a better chance philosophically, but not putting their know-how to work in Atlanta that I would have in Chicago. in behalf of local programs that are most deserving. The second area of things you can do would have MR. LEWIS: If you were the Mayor of a Southern city to entail some kind of ingenuity and soul-searching other than attack racismname four or five specific about equalizing the identity of the Negro from the things you would do to help solve the poverty problem. standpoint of our own points of view and the points of view of the employees. MR. A LINSKY: Help solve the what? I have heard many stories told about the white cab driver who runs a little mail-order business at night MR. LEWIS: Help solve the poverty problem. and who studies week-ends, and everyone seems to think this is a perfectly ordinary thing to do.But if it MR. A LINSKY: Basically, we are talking about the is a Negro cab driver, with a mail-order business at same thing, except now in a spectrum that has no color night, studying week-ends, people look at him and say, in it, because the basic issue involved in poverty is not "That is a smart Negro." just an economic one. This was my big quarrel with This kind of thing has to end.I think that is just 0E0, when it began, and they were dimly aware of it, in the same fashion that industry has put up safety which was the reason why the major part of 0E0 in the signs to reduce industrial accidents.It can put up beginning was a community action program, except signs constantly reminding us that we have a long way they were living in the world as they would like it to be to go in equalizing the identity of the Negro. rather than the world as it is. And finally, I think ways have to be found to pro- To assume that the mayor of my town was going to vide concrete opportunities for everyone who is in- permit federal funds to be used in building an independ- clined to get involved in problems of the poor, white ent community action program that could turn around and Negroto get involved. My wife, your wifethere and challenge his authority, was for the birds. That are millions of people who do not participate in any goes for any other town. kind of social action outside their own homes, but have Poverty is a matter of poverty of powerpower- repeatedly indicated they want to get involved. They lessnessand, unfortunately, every word that is used want to do something usefulthey don't want to be paid when we are talking in the arena of human politics is a for itand they keep asking how, what. loaded word. When I say "power," it gives a reaction of I think a major part of your responsibility is to takeover, of something negative, but when I say "power," define these avenues, and to spell out the methods for I use it exactly as it is defined in Webster's Un- getting some involvement. abridgedthe ability to act. I say to you that a black person in the state of MR. LEWIS: Thank you, Mr. Chaneles. Mississippi, who is making $15,000 a yearso that Now, ladies and gentlemen, we would like to turn takes him out of the economic level of poverty right to questions from the floor. Our panel on my left can awayand as long as that person is discriminated interrupt. against, as to which schools his kids can go to, he faces Mr. Bush, a question for you. You said you two sets of laws in the courts, two sets of law enforce- wouldn't take any federal money. Wouldn't you take ment. He is denied, up until very recently, represen- federal money on a training-contract basis? tation in his own government. He can be murdered with impunity by any white man, who has no more to MR. BUSH: That is the only way.I don't think anybody fear than possible conviction, not for murder but for would deny the government, or any company would turn infringing upon the civil rights of the deceased, with a it down if the country called upon him. That would be possible 10-year sentence. That black man is, in fact, the only way to take federal moneythrough a contract poor. basis. I am saying to you that any Jew who had a million dollars under the Third Reich was poor. This is the MR. LEWIS: Mr. Alinsky, you said what is done is not problem we have, first to define it before we get off on as important as how it is done. Why? how we are going to try to meet it.It is a problem of economic lock-out, and lock-out in terms of citizen- MR. A LINSKY: If anybody has to ask that question, it ship, with its rights. Money is only important in terms isn't going to make any difference what I say.It seems of what it will buy, and if you are denied these basic to me to beI am speechless. elementary things, you're poor.

47 thought.It is an eva- So, it becomes an approachthat involves the par- sion.It is an evasion of rational and, through action sion of some of the basichorse sense of this country ticipation of people themselves It is an evasion of hard groups, wherein they getthe power that comesthrough for 180 years of cooperation. become part of the whole thinking about how to solvehard problems. organization; wherein they although not legal, human family; where they are partof the decision- Historically, it is a legitimate, breakthrough. making; where the programsand policy in which they response to getting a It may very well be that afew blistering riots will are involved arethose that they participate in. that has to be clear the atmosphere in the same waythat the intro- This is the kind of a program helped to clear up launched, whether it be in thefield of race or whether ductory section of the Kerner report of just the poor, whether white or a very muggyspiritual atmosphere in the Commission's it will be in the field indictment of certain racist trends inthis society. Negro. faced in Back of the I don't think that they areright.I think that that This was the major problem unsubstantiated non sequitur, Yards, which was an all-whiteorganization. Until five finding was basically an white but it served a very useful purposein clearing the at- or six years ago,all my work was in low-income, encourageI communities. We were facedwith those kinds of prob- mosphere.I am not condoning. I do not think violence in every form isugly, but historically, lems. restlessness in the Negro It wasn't a case of money.I would like to throw necessitated as much by the do with this. With all community, as much as it is bythe bull-headedness and In another footnote that has to people who run the the positions and the positionsall of us seem to have reactionary reserved quality of the with reference to thefederal government, government purse strings of thiscountry. moneyand no one has been asharper critic of this Chaneles. than I have beenlet's keep onething in mind. We MR. LEWIS: Thank you, Mr. this, the government this We have a number of questionshere, and I would start getting so hung up with would be briefer, if you and the government that, that webegin to lose sight of like to kind of ask you if you the fact that the government is not an enemy.This is can, in your answers. This is our government, and This was addressed to the panel.What policy can not an alien government. which would alleviate in- in terms of our criticalreservations, let us keep that I advocate to my company these conferences where equities for the black community? in mind, because I have seen make out in the at the end of an hour and ahalf, you think Washington There was one word I couldn't the United States. question. was the enemy of Who would like to take that one, oneither side? MR. LEWIS: Well, we are onfriendly territory. No takers? public relations state- MR. ALINSKY:I will take any question.I think there MR. ALINSKY: This wasn't a levels that you can advise your comment. are a number of pany to work on. Oneis: Use your political power. If you were a Chicago com- I have two more for Mr.Bush.First, You have political power. MR. LEWIS: have turned to Mayor Daleymonths the question was: How do wehelp spread your self- pany, you should You said you would ago and said, "Look,after all those King demonstra- help program in all other cities? big blue-ribbon commission, make an announcement in acouple of days. tions and stuff, we set up a and that was supposed to do alot of things. And all it has done is hire a couple ofhigh-salaried people, and MR. BUSH: Yes. set up a professionalstaff and, as far as the black com- is: Do you ever get munity is concerned, nothinghas come out of it.You MR. LEWIS: The next question short." accused of being an Uncle Tom byDetroit Negroes? better get moving. Time is running I think statements like that,coming from your hall are meaningful and important.I MR. BUSH: I would like toknow the definition of Uncle company into city think you should go into the blackcommunity yourself Tom. and start finding out factsyourself. There is nothing, what extent are riots or you know, veryspecial about somebody having acouple MR LEWIS: Mr. Chaneles, to all of a sudden you hire violence likely to be looked on andused as an importantof courseP in sociology that, stuff.It is time you and contemporary device toevade action on the basis him as a consultant, to give you went out and saw some stuffyourself. of the problems of our citiesnow? it in the same Did you understand the question? When you go out and see it, look at way that you look at abusiness proposition. You don't understood the question. get carried away with a lotof thisyou know you are DR. CHANELES: Yes, I approached by people that I think violence in theimmediate sense is an eva- in a funny deal when you are

48 ask you for the stuff for the Community Chest, and so You have just got to go in and see it, and find out forth.You don't say, "Prove it.Let me see your how the system works to the severe disadvantage of balance sheet,"the stuff ;ou do if you were looking at the Negro juveniles. a business deal. The reportsI won't tire you with thatshow in This is very top priority business for you.Find every major city of the country that Negrojuveniles out the facts.Look at it, but have a flexible mind. spend as much as six to eight months in a detention Know that the ways of the past don't work. Otherwise facility, compared to an infinitely shorter period of you wouldn't be on the humpright now, you wouldn't time for white juveniles. be checking it out. Look over your own company. See what is wrong MR. LEWIS: As an organizer of minorities, Mr. with it as far as your personnel policy is concerned. Alinsky, do you feel that a void exists between sensitiz- Talk to your friends, start organizing your own group ing and the ability to do something constructive about of businessmen, starting on your own programs. the environment and what tools you believe minorities But be sureand I come back to thisbe sure need to cope with their problems?I think what the that those programs are not just your programs. They gentleman means is:Do you feel that there is a void are programs where you sit down withblacks, that you between a person's sensitivity to the environment and have reason to believe are very representative, and doing something and having the ability to do something then ask the community to go ahead, to select and work about the job? Does he need to be sensitized, I would on some kind of a way to set up some temporary rep- imagine, before he has the ability to do something con- resentativeswhich is what you will have to do when structive? a committee is not organizedmeet withthem and work out programs. MR. ALINSKY: Organization is a way of doing some- Get moving and get action. There are all kinds of thing. Then he becomes sensitive to it and starts doing things for you to be doing.Let me tell you something. things. This may sound very strange. Once you really get moving into it, you are going to find that outside of all MR. LEWIS: What toolswhen you leave a community the reasons that we are talking about, the country is after you have organized itwhat do you leave this all hung up about it, your life will have a sense of ad- group to work out their problems with? venture.It will be a helluva lot more fun for you than just playing 18 holes of golf, you know, and wondering MR. ALINSKY: What do we leave? what you are going to be doing here and there. Your life will start having a certain meaning. MR. LEWIS: What tools do you leave? There are times when you wake up in the morning I don't want to give you a sermonI am sure you must MR. ALINSKY: After we leave? wake up in the morning, after you have been futzing around for 20 years in a corporation and you finally MR. LEWIS: Yes. have reached a certain point, and you say, "What have I got out of this? Is this the way life will be from here MR. ALINSKY: We leave them with a staff of their own on out?" people, who have been trained as organizers on the job. There is a very important life to be played as an We leave them self-financed. Throughout the period of active citizen, and I am not asking you to go into an organization, they are constantly going through a learn- ordeal of self-sacrifice and martyrdom and all that ing process of how to raise their own funds and those business, in doing good, because, if you have that idea funds are always banked. in your head, that you will be doing good, you are right When we left Wood lawn three years agoat the back in that old colonial mentality. You will be doing time we leftthere was about $40,000 in their account, bad, no matter what your intentions are. and they had three organizers trained who just moved over to their own payroll, trained by us. MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chaneles, don't white juveniles get We will be going out of Rochester in the next four the same treatment as Negro juveniles? months, but we are always available to return on request of FIGHT. DR. CHANELES: Indeed, they do not. You have only to FIGHT now has $23,000 in its treasury, and two go inside the courts and, in very short order, youwill organizers that will be able to carry onthat are trained find out that many allegations against white juveniles by us. And what more can you leave? are handled informally outside the court. Andwhen white juveniles are brought before the court, the prob- MR. LEWIS:I have another question for you. It says: abilities are very low that th( y will be kept for a very Your reply to Mr. Patterson was not completely true. lengthy time in a detention facility, or sent beyond that In Chicago The Wood lawn Organization is attempting to to a reformatory or training school.

49 get the gangs' energies channeled into properdirec- ghetto there is an awful lot of managerial talent, and tions, but it has not eliminaied violence, because when private industry with upgrading programs goes atrocities are perpetrated by blacks againstblacks. out there to see these unemployed, subemployed, or The media ignore it.There are at least two teen gang whatever they are called these days, then tell them, killings per week. And it says that rapes, robberies "Look, you get involved in the program, and you will still go on. And the TWO employs manyof the gang get $65 to $80 a week, and if you behave yourselfand members. So do you still believe that Woodlawn is an learn well and work hard, in two or three years, you excellent example? will get as much as $125 a week." These young fellows, without a high school educa- MIL. ALINSKY: Yes, I think Wood lawn is anexcellent tion, but, as Mr. Bush indicated, they have a Ph.D. in example.If that guy believes that story, you have urban affairs, they are in their early twenties, they are somebody here who is taking LSD. That is not true. getting $175 to $200 a week as street people, they are I will lay him a grand on the table if he canfind hustling, and they are doing fairly well.I dare say they one killing every week or everythree weeks, let alone would make very good branch managers. They would two killings a week. make good middle executive types.Their know-how and You have one guy wounded on a shotgundeal back their talents are there and can be very productively about a month ago, and that would be it.There was a harnessed immediately. killing that took place back about two monthsbefore The other suggestion is that you do more than that, in a flurry between the Disciples and the Rangers. simply ask the corporation counsel or the executive Those facts are just not so.If they want to know what vice president or someone down the line to take on an those facts are, let them go the University of Chicago, additional responsibility as the community affairs man and ask them. As far as violence goes, when theWest for the ghetto, that you get some talents into your com- Side blew up, the Chicago police didn't evenbother to pany and begin giving veryhard thinking to solve some send an extra squad car down to Wood lawn. There was of these problems. no violence in Wood lawn.There hasn't been any violence in Wood lawn. When you do getthe only thing MR. LUMSDEN: May I comment on this. that is true in that question, unfortunatelybut this isn't just for Wood lawn, it is all over the countrythe MR. LEWIS: Certainly, Mr. Lumsden. press doesn't report and isn't toointerested in the black killing another black. We have these tremendous MR. LUMSDEN: The chambers of commercearound tensions going on between the gangs all over Chicago the country, in dealing with these social problems,tell Vice Lords, Cobras on the West Side, Rangers and Dis- me the branch managers of companieshaven't gotten ciples on the South Sidebut the Rangers and Disciples the word, so that is one thing you can do. Thechief for the last three or four months have been involved in executive officer seems to have it, but thebranch man- this major, on-the-job project, this $1 million project, ager hasn't got it. that government project which got so much publicity, There are a lot of things that I think you can do.It and it was in that project that you got that shotgun iswhatever you do well.If you do training well, set wounding. This was the only incident. up a training center in theghetto. Or you can set up a And if the gentleman will step forward and start job development center or work adjustment center or giving me his evidence, let's have it. you can even set up a smallmanufacturing facility in the ghetto, if you are a manufacturer. Do what you can do MR. LEWIS: Does the gentleman want to follow up well. And know what you can do. that question? Aircraft is doing training. United Aircraft is set- (There was no response.) ting the training and Hartford is putting in a little plan. I will tell you what not to do. Don't create another MR. LEWIS: We will go on to the next one. agency. But what you can do isloan middle management to programs. They have such a lack of ability to MR. LEWIS: This is for Dr. Chaneles and Dr.Clark, organize and administer your poverty programs. You who isn't here. For the benefit of this workshop,what know people are in there mostly because they are black. steps do you suggest the private sector use as astart- They haven't had time, they haven't had enough experi- ing point? The gentleman says, "We have to carry a ence to know how to do this. message home." If you do nothing more, you can loan middle man- So, Mr. Chaneles, you are stuck with it. agement to poverty neighborhood groups to help them set up meetings. and show them how to run a meeting. DR. CHANELES: Immediately, I would say oneof the Very simple thingsdo what you can do, and do it most practical thingsthere are two practicalthings yourself. that could be done. One is that out there inthe black

50 talking about the I might add, ladies andgentlemen, that When I say by the poor, I am MR. LEWIS: people making $25, $30, $35,$40 a week.I am not many of thesequestions about joblessness inthe ghetto talking about anybody maidng$15,000 to $20,000. The will be answered in the workshoptomorrow. Bush now. This is a per- middle-class people help us, too.I won't say that the I would like to go to Mr. middle-class Negro doesn't help.I won't buy that. tinent question. Mr.Bush, do you reach the really October we owed a hard-core people in your trainingprogram? How do The poor themselveslast balance of $6000 on the building.Within a few days, you find them andhow do you involve them? we put on araffle, we raised every penny. Wewouldn't let the businessmen pay onenickelbecause we had to MR. BUSH: The question is:How do we reach them have a responsibility, aresponsible role in the com- and how do we train them? munity. We feel it is necessarythat we do it ourselves. MR. LEWIS: The question is:How do you really feel that your self-help Do you reach them 9 MR. LEWIS: Mr. Bush, do you reach the hard-core people? program accomplishesthe goals defined by our youth MR. BUSH: Yes, I amhard-core myself. I don'tknow panel this morning? I have been hearingthat what you mean by hard-core. I think that the youth panel that youhad this word all day. Hard-coreis something that always MR. BUSH: far as the boys are con- morning was a great youth panel, andI think in the pro- bothers me a little bit, but as couple of weeks, I believe cernedword of mouth betweenthe people gets the job gram that we will have in a Mr. Barry and Miss Richardsonand Mr. Givings will done more than anything Iknow of. taught how to help each be pleased to get it and work it intheir communities. The boy himself must be that they themselves other out of this same bandbox that somebody else I think that would be something why we have a chain, we will no longer have to worry about.It must involve the escaped. This is the reason total community. You can't operate as asingle unit. have a waiting list of peoplewho are trying to get into the program and all ofthese people are poor. And I won't buy that in a thousand years. talking about hard-core. I when I say poor, I am not MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chaneles, aren't wefloundering be- don't know what you meanby hard-coreI amtalking welfare, those that are cause so manydifferent ideas as to how the problem about those that have been on there are so many unemployed and who need jobs. should be solved are offered? Since layers to the problem, shouldn'tthose of us who can training just do think that would describewhatprovide summer employment and job MR. LEWIS; Mr. Bush, I that and leave to others thecounseling, the low-cost people are talking about whenthey say the hard core. for you. To do this job of housing? Whenever a group meets toplan action, it I have another question problem? training in Detroit, do you expect toget sufficient funds ends up doing nothing. Is that a wholly from the private sector? DR. CHANELES: That was a longquestion. MR. BUSH: I have all theconfidence in the world in because of the MR. LEWIS: Aren't wefloundering because so many the private sector of the community should be solved and they will not fail different ideas as to how the problem fact that they have not failed yet, is question No. 1. this Detroit program. In fact, itwould be one of the are presented? That will see in the Question No. 2 is:Since there are many layers to best in the next few weeks that you the problem, shouldn't those of uswho can provide United States, including all yourgovernment programs. summer employment,job training programs, do so, for you, Mr. Bush. and leave to others the counseling,the low-cost hous- MR. LEWIS: There is another one wherever a group meets to enthusiastically received, ing; and then the comment, Is your self-help program plan action, it ends up doing nothing. and does it accomplish thecommunity goals or the an- nounced goals? MR. BUSH.I agree with you.I agree with the ques- have all these dif- MR. BUSH: Here is our purpose.It is self-help. We tions. You do all this planning, you ferent groups going in all differentdirections. You are strictly self-help.There is no other program in things, and America that says it is self-help.I hear all these self-have 50,000 people trying to do different help programs, but nobody has provenbeyond what we nobody is putting anything together. This is the reason why we felt in theCity of De- have in the city of Detroit. directly, within a couple To give you an example, wehad two to three thou- troit, to answer that question of weeks we have put this thing down on a mapthat we sand square feet.In there is over $300,000 of renova- for. And it was paid for by can do, and go in anygiven town like Mr. Barry and tion. The building is paid everybody here, to try to do a job, andput it in their the poor.

51 commitmentto face this But, you see, this is anotherquestion. This take another step toward hands. problem, and to do what you can tobring about a rea- has to be done by people whohave dedication first, not sonable solution. the money involved.Those who believe thatthose people these things over. They The problem is crucial, not as wehave defined it need help in trying to move defined many times be- will have to run the programs, re- here today, but as it has been are the ones who who understood it perhaps gardless of where they are inthe United States. fore by many bright people better than we do at this moment.It is a problem faced, and we do you have a comment on comparable to any other we have ever MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chaneles, faced our problems in the pastwhen we knew we had that? to face them. We facedWorld War I, World War II, The thinking in the lastfew the Korean conflict. Wefaced the Vietnam war. We DR. CRANELES: Yes. tremendous labor years by privateindustry has obliged thefederal gov- faced the depression. We faced a formulate national policy in shortage during World War II.That's when Rosie the ernment to accept and to American scene. We solving urban problems aslong-range comprehensive Riveter made her debut on the trained these people who neededto do a job in a hurry. planning. facilities planning Business demonstrated ithas the capacity and Unhappily, a lot of that comprehensive labor force in short orderwhen it has turned out to be aplanner's nightmare, andthere to develop a skilled What business didn't do is toshow is needed. has been no action. So we face a crisis hereand, as I said before, how to apply thosecomprehensive plans to a local area. these out. You have to business must have a certain amountof flexibility, it I don't think you can sort possible, it must make a profit. We have long-range, concreteobjectives. You have to havemust be as free as long-range strategies, and youhave to have undertak- all recognize that. Many people see advantagesin the ghetto for busi- ings of those aspects youhave to and do the best you ness to do exactlythat. You will learn alot more about can, with whatcapability you havethe immediate morning. Those of you who thingsand leave out some ofthe frills and fringes. it in the workshop tomorrow wonder what we can doandthat is a question that we Leave that for other people,if there are other people of what we have doing themand the only way youknow whether there hear many, many times. The consensus heard here today would seem todictate that the first are other peopledoing it or have thecapability of commitment. We must de- general sense of community- thing we must do is make a doing it, is to have some that must be solved, and then wide capability of respondingto this problem. cide that this is a problem we sort of have todecide the extent of our commit- much, Mr. Chaneles. ment. But certainly, if thebusiness community com- MR. LEWIS: Thank you very problem, it could give us un- Ladies and gentlemen, if youwill permit me to mitted itself to solve this prerogative of making some limited leadership, know-how,capacity and organization, exercise the moderator's for the job that needs to bedone. I don't think anyone observations.It seems that businessrecognizes a constructive action inhelping would contest that. large responsibility for I want to thank thegentlemen who summarized to solve this problem,the problem of joblessness did a splendid job in isolating and urban unemployed;however, their papers. I think they among the hard-core the problem and sort ofmaking it more intelligible to we probablyhave to realize that businesscan't do this possible guarantee jobs all of us. alone, and that business can't I want to thank the panel onthe left, the gentlemen and permanent employment.Private enterprise needs However, who interrogated the writersof the papers, because I a certain amountof freedom and flexibility. of the things that demonstrated here todaythat think that they helped clarify some it has been pretty well left in doubt as the gentlemendiscussed the problem is one towhich business mustaddress it- may have been self, and business, because ithas the know-how and their papers. make a valid con- I want to thank you for thecommitment that brought because it, has the organization, can I think that is terriblyimportant.It is a step tribution to solving theproblems that confront mostof you here. that it has to in the right direction. Thisis our country, yours and us. Businesshas a lot of responsibilities demonstrate that is by fac- quality, it has to be com- mine, too. The way we can maintainit has to maintain threatens us all. petitive, and it also mustmake profits. ing the problem which Thank you very much. We all understand this.But we hope that you people who have gatheredhere today will be able to

52 March 21, 1968

ladies and gentlemen. because of this lovely spot I have on the program, MR. BOOTH: Good morning, movies. The purpose of the workshopthis morning is sandwiched in between breakfast and the yesterday; that is, to learn As Mr. Booth indicated, the Chamberhas asked exactly,the same as it was with some kind of concrete more and to understandbetter the problems of the me to see if I can come up answer to two questions. Negro ghettos and the Negro. really down, that In recent weeks we have seen someitems in the First, when the chips are down, in fact, quoting top corporateof- we can really follow thesustained course of economic press, many of them, and if we want to ficials, saying it is the socialresponsibility of businessgrowth, as we have for some time, solutions to the prob- consumma-e some of ourgoals and some of our com- and industry to find constructive what would really lems of joblessness of thehard-core unemployed. mitments in the field of civil rights, For instance, here is a quotationfrom a top busi- happen if we had a breakthrough interms of the hands caught my eye in a newspaper and the skills and the talents that weneed so much? ness executive which immediate years recently. The business executivesaid: And are going to need so much in the "The public looks to business asthe primary ahead! Chamber asked source of jobs and pay checks that make so manyof And the second question that the possible. They have not was again: Could you, with somespecificity, with some the good things ir our society would happen if assigned this task to governmentand might, indeed, concreteness, give us an idea of what attempt to move we had this kind ofbeginning of a breakthrough in terms look with great apprehension on any standard of living, this responsibility in thatdirection. of the actual consumer expenditures, mandate from society, and level of living among the urbanpoor? "This is part of our basic for a couple of and this is how we earn, yearby year, society's con- And so I have been working on this months, and the materials will befound in the kit that tinued acceptance and approval." home with you. You will see a Well, I think that is a good quote.I think it says it you are going to bring subject. as it is.I think we ought to go on beyondthat and say: chart book and a paper on the responsibility of business and So that my job really today, thismorning, is to It is also the economic and then you can industry to find constructive solutionsto the problem summarize some of the highlights, read all this at your leisure on thetrain, and the plane, of hard-core unemployment.And there are sound eco- and industry should do so. and all the other ways you get back. nomic reasons why business briefly, and First of all, it is the business ofbusiness to de- Here are the two major findings, very I may want to refer to one or twoof the charts that you velop potential markets. all. This is the context This we have known since thedays when we studiedhave. I won't go through them for what we found. economics in school. assumption here And these days, when employersneed more cus- First of all, there is a very basic workers workers, that we ought to put right on thetable. The paper starts tomers, and need more productive first sentence, not only as middle management orhighly trained tech- off with, as a matter of fact, right in the nicians, but also at the entry-joblevel it is simply and it goes as follows: reservoir of unused Let us say, by 1975, which is onlywhat about good business to tap this present in the next few years, next few manpower that existsin our cities. seven years from now So, to discuss the manpower and consumerpoten- years immediately ahead,what we are going to be faced privilege to have as up with in the UnitedStates is a very significant and sub- tials of the urban poor, it is our of manpower in our speaker a manwho is a nationally recognized au- stantial need, and maybe even shortages the end of his pres- the United States of America.And while it is perfectly thority on this subject, and who, at increases in produc- entation, will answer questionsfrom the audience. true that we have had significant places, and, as you listen tivity, and output per manhour, and theefficiency of our You have cards at your in the to our speaker, I hope youwill jot down your thoughts, plant and our workers, everything that goes on questions, and be prepared toask United States today and everything we can seethat is your concerns, your immediate years ahead, points your questions, andhand them to the young ladieswho now in the offing in the to a very substantial increaseif notshortagesin the will be in the aisles. talent and the I will present him to you Dr. Seymour Wolfbein. demand for peopleas I said before, the skills that all of us need. And one otherpoint on that: It makes no difference what kindof employing institu- Dr. WOLFBEIN: Thank you,Mr. Booth. which I repre- I want to thank you, first,for inviting me and also tion you represent. In the universities, slot of the program. I sent, I have just gone through myfirst academic year putting me in this particular eyeballs are think what I feel right now is a waveof empathy coming in the academic labor market, and my twirling, because of the significantshortages there. up at me, youwill be glad to hear and I figure it is

53 there was a depression.Not only was there adecline in And whether you are in abank or in manufacturing also in the birth rates. say so, agovernment economic activity, but enterprise or even, if I may We are about to reapthe events of the 1930s in in the state andlocal levels, signif- agency, especially terms of manpower. icant shortages arecurrently present, andthey are If you look at the they will increasein the im- One other point on that score: going to be exacerbated, things that people do inthe job marketand againI mediate years ahead. which only some kind of hope it isn't news to youyoufind something else Now, if that is the caseand is very dramatic. It is easyfor me to tell you. We disaster will change thatwehave to know a fewbasic, are the only countryin the world wherethe single big- I think basically importantfactors. These have been worker. about it, I think. gest block of workersis the white-collar documented. There are no arguments watch the score card. 1 out of every Within the next month or so, you Item No. 1: In the next few years, going to happen for the this wellof the new cropof Something very dramatic is 7 new youngstershear first time in history inthe United States ofAmerica workers coming up and hittingthe job market, is going Aprilwhen the figures I hope it is alreadyob- it will happen in March or to be a Negro. If I may say so, will find that there are moreprofessional I don't think we canconsummateto use come out, we vious to you. personnel in this country,than all the skilledworkers that fancy wordthe demandsthat we are going to have, And this hands in the United States ofAmerica put together. unless we really move in onthat pool of working United States, which is aprime and talents and skills, andput them to use. is in a country like the The arithmetic of that hasalready been irrevocablyindustrial nation. Now, if you look at thefuture, you take a look at written. again is not news to you.Look And just for a moment,take a look at Chart 2,and Chart 3, which I hope what is going to happenbetween '65 and 1975.Where you will see thepitch there, withoutbelaboring all the workers? In the scheduled between 1965 is the big decline inthe categories of figures. Look at the increases Where are the bigincreases? and 1975, in the age groupunder 24, which represents, marginal and unskilled. Among the professionaland the other white-collar you know, thebiggest part of the increasinglabor force America. You take a look your- workers. of the United States of But, I think, nobody can goaway from this con- self at the very substantialincreases in the group that ference without recordingthe fact that, whilethis is is known in the trade as thenon-white, which, of of America as a whole,it is course, is mostly, 92,93 per cent, Negro. Hugein- true for the United States most certainly not truefor a group of workersknown creases scheduled.We are experiencingthem right now and in the yearsahead. as Negroworkers. And remember thiswell. As we try todeploy our- And you can read thatyourself. You don't need me skills and the back to Chart 1, you getthe selves, how do we getthe hands and the to be at you. If you turn talents? Let me give youtwo figures.1. If you look next point, that we aremoving into an arena and a span will 1-2 punch, isn't it?Look at the Negro malewho works in this country, you of years, which is almost a five 20 per cent of them at that chart. Right inthe middle of all theincreased find that one out of every are in just oneoccupation. It is calledunskilled population, work force, you nameit, look at that little outside the farmer chart. My friends, I hope laborthe only occupational group old minus in the middle of the which is scheduled to godown in this before. I hope this isjust recalling in the United States you have heard job opportunities. If youlook, for example, atthe it to your attention. Between nowand 1975, there will fantastic. One in Negro people who work,it is absolutely be a one million declinein the number of workers 50 per centwork in one critical age group, where out of every twomind you, the age group, 35 to 44, the occupational group, known asservice. And don'tlet you and I really try to zeroin on people, and get some are after a the term fool youtheterm "service"includes folks who have had experiencewhen you laundresses, chambermaids,and professor or a managerial person.We have news for domestic service, "ain't" going to be any. all the rest. you. There Now, against thatbackground, I try to respondin One million fewer, and youhave this 1-2 punch, as the Chamber put to me:What I said, because in the age groupright below, is the this paper to the question would happen if we had thebeginnings of a breakthrough? huge increase in thelabor force. seven new youngworkers with a big batch of people Here we have one out of every Just like an hour-glass, coming up will be a Negro.Take a look at what they are in the younger age groupand older age group, and a change this? And I askedthe in between. doing. What if we began to very narrow waist question as follows, as youwill see in the paperlater To get poetic about itfor oneof the age groups, that arithme- on.I said, let's say that, as wemove to 1975, ail the sands are running out,and if you do your get closer to thefollowing 35 to 44 in 1975, were will happen is that we will tic, you will find that people, situation. The proportionof Negroes in thedifferent born in the 1930s. And someof you are too young to remember itmaybe youread aoout itin the 1930s

54 occupations will be no more and no lessthan their pro- Labor Department and HEW, 20 million ofthem white, when you take a look portion in the work force as a whole. 10 million of them not white. And What would happen if Negroes, for example, par- at this in a real hard way, youfind, of course, very, just like very substantial differencesall over the United States. ticipated in the various occupational groups handle on the whole. Now, in order to get some kind of they do in the work force on the had a break- Mr. Booth was kind enough tointroduce me and subjectwhat would really happen, if 1,,e in this area. through?I went back and found that,during the last indicate what a fabulous authority I was of America, there I don't know whether I am, but I surespent a lot of half dozen years in the United States tell you this was even startling to was a decline in thenumber and proportion of people years in this. But I If you want the figures, there was a me. And I thank theChamber very much for asking living in poverty. It was really an eye-opener. You can one-third cut. This is very importantaone-third me to do this. living in poverty, imagine what happens if you startplaying around and decline in the proportion of people saying, what if in the next seven years wereally begin who are white and a one-fourthdecline in the proportion to move in this direction?What if we really go down of Negroes in poverty. the road not of setting quotas ortrying to get Utopian I might say againmore thanparentheticallythis about this, but just having the Negrowork force deploy means that there is aone-third decline in the propor- itself occupationally in the same proportionof the total?tion of whites in poverty and aone-fourth decline in the It means that in the What happens? number of non-whites in poverty. the figures.I will last half dozen years, that the proportion ,the poor in You ought to take a hard look at increased. So, not read them. What happensis really a tremendous the United States who are Negro has from that point of view, you see, that grouphas fallen labor supply.I promise this is the last time Iwill next six year: quote the words againa cornucopiaof hands, talents, behind. But then I saidWhat if in the really discover which brings us as close to 1975 as you canget with skills available to us. And if we can would happen is that is all how we do thishow we elicit thiskind of labor force; these figures, I guesswhat next on the program that happened? Let's not get Utopianabout this. Let's and you watch the movie which is dozen years you repeat the per- and see about some of the thingsthat are being done say in the next half participation, both formance of the past half dozen years inmaking some with the hard ,ore, to elicit their who are on the part of theemployer and the hard-core them- kind of dent in the number and proportions selves, and both are responsible. You find,for exam- classified as poorno more, no less. professional person- May I call your attention to the factthat if we do ple, 600,000 more professionals, would still leave nel, would be available to us, 450,000 moreskilled this in the next half dozen years, it craftsmen would be available to us. Andagain, this is one out of every eightpeople in poverty, and one out of understand. every fourlet's put it infamilies, that is the spending not any great Utopian breakthrough, you eight white And some of the individual fields arefabulous-150,000 unitit would still leave one out of every four Negro more engineers. Andthis one gets mebecause we families in poverty, and one out of every have a tremendous shortage in our ownuniversity- families in poverty. So, you see again,this is hardly 200,000 more secretaries, stenos and typists.Fifty the ideal, when you still leave 25 per centof the Negro thousand more carpenters. And so on,and so forth. families with incomes approximatelyless than $3000. six years, and, So I asl you, when you get achancetake a look Let's say that is all we do in the next at some of these figures, and seethe kind of turn you my friends, againif you go through this exercise, as begin to get in the kind of manpowerthat we need, and you see, when you lookat this paper, the results are the answer to the first question is in oneword: Yes, absolutely fabulous. there is an enormous manpowerpotentialnot only in I will give you some of thegrand totals, although I terms of numbers, that might be theleast important don't think that is the important figure.It would mean of itthe important thing is the distributionof hands in 1967 levelsthe year justpastthere would be an part of this pop- that you get when you really start moving. increase in actual expenditures on the The second question put to me verybriefly, was: ulation of the United States of Americafor all the goods What if you really begin to move down thisroad and and services that you and I purveywhetherit is the take some action, what would happen to thespending, tangible goods, like some of you guyslike, or some the standard of living, the levelof living on a part of a services like we think we are performingin education substantial number of our population? And we are there would be an increase of$103 billion of what we States of talking about the urban poor in general now,although I call consumer expenditures in the United have been focusing on the Negro. America, just like that. Now, on the income side, again I hope thisinforma- And may I repeat, for the last time, againI prom- tion is no news to you, you know whathas happened. ise, with no great Utopian breakthrough, justrepeating There are about 30 million people in theUnited States the experience of the last half dozen years. of America who are officiallylabeled as living in Now, I think the big story really is not somuch poverty, according to all the fancyclassifications of that big number, big as it is, and, believe me,it is a

55 conservative estimate, I was very, verycareful.If you would spend it in riotous living and all the other things want to be technical about it, Iused the savings rate people spend it on, and wages would tend to hover at that prevailed in 1967, which was a veryhigh one. Manythe subsistence level. economists think it was an abnormally high one.I did When you went to school and when you took the everything that is as conservative as possible,and you course in economics, you heardabout a lawthe iron still get a $100 billion annual increase in1967levels in law of wages.I went to school and read David Ricardo consumer expenditures. because I had to. And one time in class I asked my What is fascinating about this is when I putin the famous professor at Columbia what was the score on machine this informationwe have a fancycomputer, Ricardo? He was a pretty sharp cookie. He was a which I hope never makes mistakesandasked myself millionaire when26years of agea member ofParlia- What would happen to the distributionof expenditures?ment. How could such a perceptive economistmake What would people buy as the level of thestandard of this kind of statement? living goes up? And I hope it will, tooyoufolks will And the professor said, "Your problem is you really get a feel for this, you know, both the Negroand didn't read the fast edition of Ricardo's principles." the white person, when they are living atthe lower levelI think it was the ninthor whateverit was. And the old of income. They buy approximately the samekinds of boy made a change in that last edition. He said asfol- of the goods in the same proportions and when youlook at the lows: "You know, as I have been watching some figures are almost exactly the information(of course, it was fragmentary back in paper, you will see the statistics same for white and non-white. those days, he didn't have the avalanche of Families at the lower levels of the incomescale we have now)I notice something veryinteresting.I have to put their dough in the basics. You justwatch. notice, as levels of income rise, so does thelevel of As they begin to move out, as you knowmoveinto living riseso does the standard of living, and the higher levels of income, where the level ofincome standard of defined aspirations and goals. Andpeople, goes up. And just one or twofiguresyou will read instead of shelling it out immediately, evensaved them all when you take a look at the paper.Take an and increasing income kindled alive expectationsand item like housing. There would be an increasein hous-aspirations .. ."This made a heck of a difference! last edition of ing expenditures of about$71billion to$95billiun at You know that David Ricardo in the very And I would 1967levelsa very heavy increase in housing expendi- his Principles changed the score card. tures. suggest that, as you read this paperwhen you get a And I understand there are a number of peoplein chance, you see if this may not even be truein the the audienceI know I have met a numberof them United States of America in the next halfdozen years from the telephone system. You take a look atwhat that if we really go down this commitment,that we talk happens, for example, as you move into higher levelsof about, and we mentioned so well yesterday in our con- income, to the industry known as the telephoneindustry.frontations, we could really have a "riot"and an "ex- I won't tell you the figures. I want you tolook at it, plosion." But it will be the kind whichwould see a read it, and take a hard look. Go look atexpenditures tremendous rise not only in the levels but inthe stand- for automobiles, expenditures for gas and oil,expendi- ard of living of the American people. tures for medical servicesabsolutelyfabulous. Thank you very much for being a fineaudience. I think I will end here and just make one more statement. As I went through these figuresand tried to MR. BOOTH: Dr. Wolfbein, you havevindicated all of assess what the manpowerand consumer potential is in the good things I have said,butand more important the so-called urban pooras I saidfirst Ifound it these are tremendously valuable andstimulating re- startling, even though I thought I knew all thesefigures,marks you have given us. had worked with them for so many years. Itis really Now, if you will stay here at this mike, I will go an eye-opener in terms ofpotentialand if you want to here and sit down and take it easy and Iwill simply look at this strictly from an economic point ofview, read the questions and expect you to knowall the which, obviously, is not the only one, myfriendsthis answers. is it. But I would like to note and call yourattention to Is that fair? what is said in this paper, not so much in the over-all global figures, but as to what happens to people in DR. WOLFBEIN: Very good. terms of expectations and levels of standards of living, when this sort of thilg happens. MR. BOOTH: The first question is an easy one.Can And I am reminded very muchthis is my final business effectively train500,000youths in the next commentof what happened when a very famous eco- th*.ee years? nomist by the name of David Ricardo many, many years ago wrote a book on the principles of economics.And DR. WOLFBEIN: You want me to answerthat now? David Ricardo kept saying that it made no difference There are two ways of answering it, of course. whenever you increased the income of people, they One is to sayyesand run. You willbe glad to know I

56 have to catch a train back to Philadelphia almost im- MR. BOOTH: I would have raised my hand, but I was mediately. Eut, seriously, this is what we are going to afraid you would asi: me to define it. talk about for the rest of the morning, and again I call your particular attention to the film thatis coming up, DR. WOLFBE!N: You heard me before, I think.I know and some of the discussion by the panel. you have. As you know, the Third AbridgedDictionary I just want to say one word on this. Otherwise, it defines eedysiast as an exotic dancer.It is a very would be gratuitous. You will hear what the experts polite definition, would you say? will have to say. You will hear Mr. Dyer of the tele- I can't tell what generation you guys are from, but phone company and Mr. Windsor and all the rest, who in my generation it was folks like Gypsy Rose Lee.I have had personal experience on the firing line. won't mention some of the other famous people. Gypsy The firing line I experienced, as some of you know, Rose Lee has gone on to higher things. She is now an was for three years in a training and retraining pro- author, and :,he is a television personality. You can't gram of the United States of America. I wasthere on beat that.I bring that to your attention, because it is the third floor of the Labor Department when Arthur responsive to the definition of "professional." Ecdysi- Goldberg came with them, and I was the one who got asts are classified as professionals, professional stuck with it, as some of you know. personnel. What impressed me ali the timewhat I kept beat- I don't know whether that group has been increasing ing at in the Departmentwhat I think is emerging moreor not.I have lost touch with the mainstream of the and more now on the scene, as you heard Mr. Booth sayAmerican cultural scene. But, seriously, the great ma- this morning, are two things. First, the people who arejority, in fact the preponderant majority of the people in charge, sincerely believe that the business com- who are classified as professionals, professional per- munity can do this, Mr. Booth. And, as you heard the sonnel, are the ones that you and I would think of. Vice President say yesterday, as you heard all of us They are, basically, the people who have to go through say, whether we believe this or not, thechips are going a college education, to get on thejobthe doctors, the to be with the business community in the next few years,lawyers, engineers, chemists, architects. You name and I think that the training of the half million people of it.But it does include entertainment personnel and the hard-corelet's say, of the real intractably unem- professional athlete:.And I understand why it is beirg ployed, even though we don't get in our various fancy asked because, if you will start throwing in Gypsy Rose statisticshas to be done. And I am hard put to think LeeWhat is the big deal that professional personnel who else can do it if not the business community. And are exceeding skilled personnel? again just one other word on thisby business com- It is a good question. Whenever I make a presenta- mimity, I hope you understand that I am using this in itstion like thisand I speak mostly to teacher groups all-encompassing sense. It means not only, again, the and when they hear ecdysiasts are classified with them telephone company, and IBM, and those of you who put as professional personnel, it gets tobe quite a shock, out machine tools, and so on, but also some of the otherand I often get letters afterward complaining about this. organizations like universith sall employing institu- If any of you don't like the idea of ecdysiasts being tions have a common denominator. I think in the next classified with you and me, please don't write to me. half dozen years we have to see how we can elicit and Write to the United States Bureau of the Census, Wash- motivate and get the participation of the five hundred, ington, D. C. They are in charge. six hundred thousand intractables, and then actually, But really, this is a very, very significant figure. when we bring them into the arena, put them through Twenty years ago to the year, the proportion of the training programs. American working population which was skilled was double that of the professional person. Today they are MR. BOOTH: Here, Dr. Wolfbein, are two questions "even-steven." And again, it is very difficult to see which call for you to amplify your summary of the anything in the offing which doesn't show that profes- paper. The first one, I believe,needs a clarification sional group really moving ahead. And I suspect in the of a category. Please define the term "professional" next half dozen years, it isn't even going to be a race. as you used it. May I take this opportunity to emphasize the fact and perhaps I should have done this beforethat, as you DR. WOLFBEIN: Well, I love to do that. There is a know, there are just as many demands and just as many very famous word that you findin the dictionary.I will shortages of people with manual talents as there are spell it for you. Then I will ask you a question about it.with so-called academic or professional talents.If you The word is "ecdysiast." How many people hereknow don't believe meif you can find an auto mechanic or a the mean of that word? Raise your hands. Thatis a good TV repairman, my name and serial number are on sharp audience you have here, Mr. Booth. And Idon't the program, please get in touch with me. As a matter think these guys heard me before. So this is asignifi- of fact, as you will see by the chart, great demands are cant statistic. coming up for professional and skilled personnel, but

57 the fact that we are the only That when you go around with yourlantern looking for we have to face up to people about this, country in the world whichemploys the majority of its the truth on this subject and asking workersfor better or worseinproviding services, you know what happens. You runthe whole gamutand I would be dissembling if I gave youjust my subjective rather than goods. attention to the fact that That is the way the ball is bouncing. answer and didn't call your very sincere people who arestudy:iv this come up with about the drain of man- completely different answers. You have a guylike MR. BOOTH: This question is that distin- power. Dr. Wolfbeinit says:Are your charts based Ericson up in Harvardif I may mention the Vietnam war? If not, what guished institutionwho puts it right onthe line, and on the continuation of says"If you have an MIA, it is going toincrease the would your charts predict? incentives to work." And then Idon't have to tell you, thirik quite the DR. WOLFBEIN: My chartsin terms of the fact that I there is a group of other folks who ahead for another half dozen years orcontrary. was asked to look that happened within so, to 1975all thosefigures that you read in my paper I think one of the great things that we will the last year, or so, is the U. S.Chamber of Commerce and that you will see in the chart assume only sponsored not be in the Vietnam warinterms of the current and I am not advertising themhas not harrassmentin 1975. We will still haveinternational a conference like this one,where you get this kind of problemsnot of the kind we have right now. confrontation of give and take, but theChamber also, The question asks, "What if that is notthe case?" as you know, sponsored aconference on exactly this I think it even upends the figures even more.It puts topic. And I think the best answerI can give again chips on exactly the fields that and give you 30 seconds of judgment on my ownpart more and more of our of the basic stuff we need in terms ofskill and professional personnel. is to go back and take a look at some be hopeful that came out of that conference.And you will get What I am saying is that these figures may will get the spectrum to say that, by 1975, we will notbe in this kind of intel-yourself a real good answer. You national situation. :n the next few years,if it still con- of answers, and I think you will get alot of good judg- long-range trend ments on what this would do. tinues, it will not change the basic, people, who were you see portrayed. We had some very, very good here and talked on thisMiltonFriedman, Jim Tobin, package, by the United annual income should and all the othersin a nice MR. BOOTH: If a guaranteed States Chamber of Commerce. become a reality in the next five years,,vould this affect your study? MR. BOOTH: Thank you forthat nice commercial. If I DR. WOLFBEIN: That's a neat one.Even if I had re- had a copy of your recent book,which you published, I hearsed for this, I don't think I wouldhave expected would give it a plug, too. this.It is a very relevant question. Now that I am in Philadelphia, Idon't get to Wash- DR. WOLFBEIN: I made a mistake.When I wrote ington as often as when I used to behere. I do come those books, I was in government,and I was about to down a couple of times a month, and I must sayI have exit. And I felt I ought to be veryclean about it.So I noticed something that I think I ought toshare with you decided not to take royalties and it gets meright over folks.I am beginning to hear this thingalphabetized here, when I think about it. more and more, and if Iknow Washington, once you start alphabetizing something, it is aclear and present MR. BOOTH: Here is a veryinteresting philosophical danger. question.If the Negro is the last great resourceof Anyway, I am hearing more and more of this re- manpower, would thecommunities that attract them be ferred to as the MIAknown in the trade asthe mini- better off economically in the longrun? mum incomeallowance. I think we are referring to the fact that I same thing.I appreciate very much the for me to wasn't asked whether I was in favorof it or notthat DR. WOLFBEIN: Well, again, it is easy have to filibuster stand up here and be in front ofthese microphones, and would take a couple of hours. I would important to understandand I that one. But if you ask me thequestionWhat if we say, "Yes." It is very And how would now live in a communityknown as Philadelphia, and I had an MIA or a negative income tax? personal experience. this affect the trends here?I would say, first, in think I can speak now from more and what you and I as It is easy to say, "Yes," but youhave to realize, I terms of the demand for people, historymaybe the employers need, I don't see this affectingit much. But think, for the first time in American second time, this must have beenwhat happened during it might have some kind ofeffect, of course, on the in modern times labor supplythat we would get. Butrather than give the 1930s, but certainly the first time personal, subjective answer to this, Ithink we have had an enormousmovement of the population you my own opportunity. You are think- it is more important for me to answerit as follows: not in response to economic

58 ing of the character who has written abrilliant article because thea ;ou would have in ,he citiesand I can't called "Internal Migration and EconomicOpportunity." think of anything that would help these clichesabout The idea was that the movement of thepopulation the rebirth of the cities, and so on, more than to is internally moving as a response toeconomic oppor- kindle alive the hands and the talents and theskills their tunity, such as the movement westward,and other such that we have here now, and to see a rise in movements. But I think in the last halfdozen years., standard of living. what has happened is not quite that kindof pheno .enon. That is, when the chips are down, what is going to We talk about the great increase in productivityin make the city the central cityif I may say soeven the United States.I don't know whether you know thatbythe urban fringes, 1970, just a couple of years t rom now, wewill have doubled our output per manhour in this country inthe last MR. BOOTH: Dr. Wolfbein, yourfabulous story about quarter of a century. Can you imagine that?Since the the dexterity of that tomato feeler and pickerwould lead end of World War II, we have doubled the amountof to this one. Have any in-depth studiesbeen made which goods and services that you and I produce for every compare the trainability ofNegroes with whites? Is hour of work we put in, and nowhere has thisbeen true there any substantial difference in the manualdexterity more than in agriculture, of course. between whites and blacks? And I just went up to an adjacent state, New Jersey. This is worth 30 seconds' notice.It is known as the DR. WOLFBEIN: Yes, i have notonly conductedI have Garden State, believe it or not. And there is a lot of been in charge of surveys like that. truck farming there, and I went up to see some of the To answer that question, as far as I amconcerned machinery that is being used.I tell you it is out of this (and I have empirical evidence anddocumentation)if world. Maybe some of you have seen it. you take comparable groupsI don't care whether they Do you know how they pick tomatoes up there? are black or white or yellow orwhatever it isof They have a machine. I guess t is called machine. It course, they are all trainable.That is really not the scares the daylights out of yG.a. Theyposture the ma- problem. The problem is that, when you get a groupof chine vis a vis the crop, as they say in the trade,which people, as happened with those in the moviethat is in English means they take the gizmo and put it next to coming up,when you get a group of people,let's say, the tomato crop, and the thing sends out an armknown of intractably unemployed Negroes, orMexican- as a sensing arm. Americans, with whom we have had contact, andothers, You know what it does? It feels the tomato, and, what you get, of course, are folks whoneed much more if that tomato is ripe, it plucks it; if it isn't ripe, it of a head start than some other groups. Andwhat it leaves her alone. really means is that we have to start furtherback to- And you are welcome to come to New Jersey. I ward genesis, with some groups, or othersgodown to will give you the place and location, if you want a little a head start program here inwhat we call the Nation's "field" trip. Capitaland again you have to see this to believe it. You know, when you see this, you see this in real I was here several months ago at one ofthe new head life now. No kidding around, this may not be stotistics, start classes in the District of Cc iumbia.They had a but it is the best productivity I have seenwith all due group of Negro children who wereunderprivileged, who deference to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and all the were in a group where they put an orange onthe table other great outfits. This has happened up and down and you know, an orange. Theydidn't know what it was. across the agricultural sector. We onlyhave 5.5 mil- They didn't know whether to throw it, chuck it,bite it lion people working on V. 3 farms of the United States they didn't know what it was. What we have todo, ladies for 200-million population. It is incredible. and gentlemen, when we move into thetraining arena is What happened? Where have all these workers take into account the transactions with theenvironment, gone to? Just look around you. as we say in psychology,that various people have had. So, I think we have had more of a push, you see, And one of the great things that we have todo in the rather than a pull. We have now in our various cities training and retraining programs is tolook that straight and I need not tell youhuge gobs of population who havein the face. And I think that a necessary,though not a not moved in response to economic opportunity.Why didsufficient condition for successful training programs,is 1 say, "yes" 'way back an hour back when youasked me to increase the number and varietyof transacLions with that question? Does this represent economic oppor- the environment that so many, especiallythe urban poor, tunity in the city? have never even had a chance to have. I think that now that it is here. And if we do go And when you do, then, of course, again thewhole down the road that all of us have been talking about thing is kindled alive. The very first programthat we yesterday, and we will be talking about today, and mounted under the Manpower DevelopmentTraining Act, begin to meet some of these commitments, then Ithink as I stand and tell youagain, was in New Jerseyyou that is the story. And I am glad you asked the question. may have gathered by now I am avoting resident of That is what would kindle alive even a paper like mine, New Jersey. We were going to take someof the migrant

59 laborers and put them into jobs called tractorrepair- And 3. Building into programs the essentialskill- mana real smartideamove them into a little better training for entry-job openings; and occupation, higher paid, very badlyneeded, the me- No. 4. The followup, or job-coachingtheguidance chanical skill, and these people had theskills. which has been found to be absolutely necessaryto help You know what we found out right onthe first daymany hard-core unemployedafter oncebeing hiredto that we couldn't start that trainingand retraining pro- adjust to the punctuality, regularity andresponsibility to gram, because these guyscouldn't read the manual. the job, which is expected of every jobholder. Big, big deal! Even very sharpcookies like myself This follow-up is also necessary to help the newjob hadn't anticipated the fact that you have tobe able to holders with their personal problems, so that theywill be read a repair manual if you are going toteach some- able to work on a regular schedule. body to work a tractor. So we hat" to gofurther back to To illustrate these four techniques, theNational documentary genesis, as I said, and we began withbasic education in Chamber prepared a filmyou might call it a terms of reading. Otherwise youcouldn't train them. in work clothes.It was made especially for this meeting, and there is nothing fancy about it. The settingis in MR. BOOTH: Ladies and gentlemen, itis a great New Haven and Philadelphia. temptation to go on and on with thisdelightful man. We And here it is. could endlessly learn from him.I get paid primarily for keeping the program on time. "OUTREACH" So, Dr. Wolfbein, here is one finalquestion, and I -- A study oftechniques in the finding believe that it will give you sacisfaction,because it will and job preparation of the hard-core unemployed prove to a dedicatedand profound person, like yourself, that your audience listens and gets yourmain point. A Motion Picture Presentation of This sayswhat would be the effectof the tomato-picker The Chamber of Commerce of tile United States on the ecdysiast? Produced for the 1968 Workshop cn the Urban Poor (16 mm. Color-Sound. Time: 27 minutes, 30seconds) DR. WOLFBEIN: I think we ought toapplaud that question. Commentary by (in order of appearance): If I were real smart, I would answerthat. Let's say Ronald Howard we ought to congratulate the manwho asked it.Thank Manager you very, very much.You have been a tremendous Adult Armchair Education Program audience. Opportunities Industrialization Center Philadelphia, Pennsylvania MR. BOOTH: Rarely do we hate to movefrom one speaker to another, but this is a time whenI feel we are Bennie Sheffield depriving ourselves of a treat, only because wehave Supervisor some other tremendouslyimportant and interesting Hill Dwight David Employment Center people coming along here. Community Progress, Inc. Ladies and gentlemen, in recent years, quite afew New Haven, Connecticut pilot experimental programs have beeninitiated at the community level to equip the hard coreunemployed, in- Dave Hicks cluding the so-cr lied unemployables, to participatein Recruiter the world of productive work. We here atthe National Community Progress, Inc. Chamber have observed and studied anumber of these New Haven, Connecticut programs and, out of our studies, wehave found a pattern of four techniques which, whenappliedyou have Mrs. Ellen Murray Derbyshire been looking for specificswill help thehard-core un- Supervisor employed fill, and hold, entry-level jobssatisfactorily. New Haven Skill Center Let me just sketch them, the four techniquesfor New Haven, Connecticut realizing manpower potentials of thehard-core unemployed, which involve things that you arealready familiar David Brown with, I believe, but they will serve as anintroduction for Enrollee the film, which follows. New Haven Skill Center No. 1 is recruiting the hard-coreunemployed. And Opportunities Industrialization Center you don't do it just byputting an ad in the newspaper. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania Recruiting the hard-core unemployed is ascience in itself. Frederick Miller No. 2. Making the functionally illiterateable to Deputy Executive Director absorb skill training, and motivating them to wantto Opportunities Industrialization Center receive basic training for jobs. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

60 Primarily we use people who comedirectly from James Farer the poverty neighborhoods inwhich we are attempting to Manager people who can actu- Skill Center recruit. What we need to see are Opportunities Industrialization ally communicate in the samelanguage and on the same Philadelphia, Pennsylvania terms of the people thatwe're trying to reach. Weneed people who can understandthe types of problems and the Narration by: kinds of initial rejections ofthe initial reluctance expla- Charles Armentrout nations of why they can't participateso that usually the Assistant Manager persons who servicethe recruiters in our program are News Department people who come directlyfrom the indigenous population. Chamber of Commerce ofthe United States attracting a person living in Washington, D. C. We usually succeed in that block to use their home as acenter for learning activities. We'll then send atrained group leader into MR. ARMENTROUT: these classes and on a weeklybasis they'll be able to In Philadelphia, Pennsylvaniaand in New Haven, been developed to seek provide instruction in suchbasic skills as reading Connecticut, techniques have skills, math skills. They'll beable to conduct active out and train theunemployed so they maybecome pro- group discussionsin such areas as minorityhistory, ductive citizens. community problems andsolutions. In PhiladelphL, there's anorganization with a consumer education, by its initialsO.LC.standing Now out of this informallearning atmosphere we program known mainly find that our people begin todevelop confidence and for OpportunitiesIndustrialization Center. encouraged that they can digs out hard-core un- motivation. They begin to be Here's whyand howOIC succeed in educational and training programs. neighborhoods. employed in these So that from our AAEclasses, persons frequently move into vocationaltraining programs such as OIC. MR. HOWARD: I'm manager of OIC's They move into adult basic educationclasses. They're My name is Ronald Howard. school board classes Program. Adult Armchair motivated to move into a range of Adult Armchair Education and in adult day Education is primarily an outreach program.It was that are offered in evening schools of extending our programschools. originally created as a means who doesn't efforts further into the heartof the grass roots com- You don't have to convince a person innovated approach for have a job that they need a job.You don't have to con- munity. AAE is essentially an write that they need people who for a number of vince a person who cannot read or going directly to those these fears, these anxieties, that reasons are reluctant to cometo us. more education. But the kinds of pro- become associated with education serve asobstacles to They're frequently unaware of of programs. This is grams that are availableand of the kinds of waysof their participation in these kind In other instancesthe reason why it's necessaryto kind of dissipate these moving into these types of programs. tension-free, relaxed we find thatthere's a lack of confidence onthe part of fears and anxieties through a to whether or not they can suc-setting. And we find that theinformal atmosphere of our target population as opportunity for doing ceed in educational orvocational training programs. the home provides an adequate The normal means ofcommunication, such as television,just this task. inadequate for convin- radio, newspapers, are frequently Haven, an organization cing our target population thatthis means them. This MR. ARMENTROUT: In New that it's necessary to directly with the name, CommunityProgress, Incorporatedor means in many instances C.P.I.also searches out theunemployed. go to the peopleand convince them that this is your program. It means you. MR. SHEFFIELD: I'm BennieSheffield, Supervisor of We're trying to reach all typesof persons primarily Employment Center in the Hill We find that we're the Hill Dwight David adults 20 years of age or older. in our Community Progress interested primarily in theunemployed, the underem- section of New Haven. Now program we not onlyhave pre-vocational and vocational ployed, the uneducated, theundereducated. And this in- includes people on training programs, but wealso have neighborhood em- cludes men, it includes women, it ployment centers. We found in ourjob training and our welfare, it includes adults, itincludes elderly persons. people don't just automati- find that it is best, we findthatpre-vocational training that A range of persons. We cally come in when you open yourdoors. So we had to it is frequently possible tobest reach these people by open our neighborhoodemployment centers to themto going directly to theirhomes. This is where they are, neighborhood and get these find that we can most sort of reach out into the after all, and this is where we whet come in to us, for first step of programming.people. Now we have people attractively bring them into a various reasons, or we have to goout and find them. We begin by sendingrecruiters into a neighborhood to to people face to face what our For some reason, we don'tImow why, people look ring doorbells and explain other office, perhaps even partof program is and whatit's intended to do. at us as just like any

61 a bureaucracy, we know they want jobs but they don't being in operation sort of helps them too, it helps moti- come in. Perhaps they're afraid that they'llbe turned vate them, makes them feel like they can make it.But down at the door or they're afraid that they might it beI have to point out here that this will never happen un- treated cordially or a lot of thoughts might _.un through less we have people to reach out and find them right in their minds. Now we have neighborhood employment their neighborhoods. workers or neighborhood workers whose job it is to dispell these feqrs and to win the people's confidence MR. ARMENTROUT: Basic education is offered by the and to bring them in to our offices. New Haven Board of Education in this center. The supervisor is Mrs. Ellen Murray Derbyshire. MR. ARMENTROUT: Ace recruiter Dave Hicks, ex- MRS. DERBYSHIRE: The sole purpose of the program Harlem Globetrotter and a high school basketball star being to train both youths and adults in basic communi- in his home city of New Haven. cation, computation and basic manipulative skills. Many of the people who come here are people who have MR. HICKS: I've been a neighborhood worker for the past three years here, in the Hill which is a very large area innot had an opportunity to go to school before to learn. New Haven. My job mainly is to make contact with theMost of them who come here have difficulty reading any city residents, find out their problems, and their and many of them even in this day and age have diffi- needs and try to convince them to come into our neigh- culty in writing their own signature. Many of the ones borhood employment center to further our discussions. who come here also are those who cannot speak our I'm out in the neighborhood say half of the day. English language. They might be very slow in their Normally, in the morning or afternoon to do my recruit-own language. For example, approximately 40 per cent ingI'm knocking on doors, talking to people in the of our people are Spanish-speaking people and our job streets, pool rooms, stores, barber shops, etc. here is to be able to help them to both speak, read and There's many, many places we could find the unem-write the English language. ployed and hardcore, just by simply walking in your When they first come to school, most of these I usually find them in front of pool halls people are very embarrassed, they're very hesitant neighborhood. about coming into our building, and I might say we or either in front of bars, streets, and by door todoor don't call it a school. We call our place the skill cen- knocking. ter. They come here for skillscommunication skills, I might know this tellow and I might not know him, computation skills, and we introduce them into job but I would approach him and I would either ask him if skills because our ultimate purpose is to get them he's working or not and explain our full program to himeither to go on to further academic learning or to get and then ask him would he be interested.If not, I would into some type of job training or job opportunity. As take his name and address down and then recontact him I said they are embarrassed, they're hesitant. When if he is not able to come to the center at that time or they come in they feel, I'm the only one who cannot do either give him an appointment to come and see me. this, I'm the only one who can't read, who can't write, I have a tendency to relate to people, well I relate and it is our job here to make them feel relaxed, to to the people very well.I think by talking to them, I'm feel secure, to feel that this is the place where they not the type to be too formal with them. I'm mora, like will be welcome. them. I feel that a person coming from the outside more or less has a theory and different typesof say- MR. ARMENTROUT: David Brown, 35, unemployed a ings. But you get a neighborhood person that these year, is among those made welcome. other people know and they will more or less lean to-- wards you than another person. In other words, they'll MR. BROWN: I came to the skill center through CPI have more faith in you. and state welfare and also through the community service which is the CPI I just stated.I had worked MR. SHEFFIELD: When some of these people come to previously in private work for 10 years.I got inour neighborhood employment centers, they can't read volved in policy playing, which is numbers, betting, or write and if they are some years, this is embarras- and subsequently I was fired. After I was fired, I was sing to them. Here the neighborhood worker's job is to just lost out in the world. I couldn't get a job because explain the program to them. Once they have explainedmy education was a little bit too low and therefore I the programs, to take them out to where some of these had no other choice but to go back to policy playing programs are in operation. Those who are needing or seek some other kinds of legal justifiable means especially basic education, here they can see the class-in order to support my family. rooms, talk to the teachers and see other students who Well, I was unemployed for about a year alid my are from much the same circumstances that they find feeling was actually low--dGwn in the dumps. My themselves in. And here they see that what seemed to morale was very low. I didn't know which way to go be so impossible to them that now if these people can or what to do in order to earn sufficient funds to sup- make it that they at least have a chance. This sort of port my wife and six kids.

62 This school has elevated me spil tually andalso sigaificant when you keep in mind that in dealing with physically because if you are confused, which I was, adults you're talking about a group of trainees who have and you are si,;k mentally and physically, basicedu- not been into any formal school situation for anumber of cation has done for me I don't know where to startto years. In many cases, ten,fifteen years is quite common. express what they have donefor me. I know they re- They need the orientation to this whole area of train- assured me that I wasn't left alone in this bigworld ing; they need an opportunity to adjust to the routineof and therefore, they have enabled me to see theoutlook ti-aining different from previous years, of course,they on life and to face society withdignity and also feel need very rea t help and basic skills and the communica- secure that somebody caresabout the poor people. tion skills, the reading, writing and arithmetic, etc. They have prepared me so I can actually helpmyself A person who is literally illiterate has to learn and I have been over here five months and right now Ifeeljust very basic literacyhas to learn to readand write like they have gave me, elevated me to a levelthat I and it may be as simple as reading and writing his couldn't have got going to school for two years. They name. Generally we have peoplewho are underedu- made me feel like I was a human being and enabled metocatedthey're functionally illiterate which simply write, read, do arithmetic 80 per cent better than I was means that they don't have masteryof literacy suf- before I came here. ficient to be able to function. They can't master the training. Quite often they don't read the materials MRS. DERBYSHIRE: In our classes we have twotypes ofsuccessfully with comprehension, etc. groupings. One, homogeneous grouping, and thesecond Obviously, trainees can't learn from books, from one, heterogeneous grouping. written materials, if they can't read. Reading isalso A person might come in, he cannot read at all,he associated with the concept of one's selfit helps his cannot write at all, we have special classes justfor thesewhole motivationif he doesn't think much of himself, people. We would not, for example, put a personwho is he's not very confident in his capabilities, he's not let's say working at a first grade level inwith a group likely to learn very well, so this is very vital. who already can read who can readfairly well, who can And by the same token, you can't expect an adult write well. We have special classesfor these people trainee to go through a long period of literacy and also, and as the person progresses inhis particular reading skills only prior to getting him involved in group, then he will be moved tothe next advanced group.skilled training because you have to do it concurrently In our social living classes, the individuals are get him started, get him motivated, he begins to grouped heterogeneously as I have previously mentionedrealize why it's necessary and then while he's en- and in this class they mostly sit and talk about their gaging in skilled training and getting near tohis em- duties as a citizen, their responsibility as a head of a ployment objective, he concurrently will be improving household, as a member of a family. They talk about thehis skills. city in which they live, the neighborhood in whichthey One of the most important aspects of the feeder live, about New Haven, about the functions of the govern-program initially is to have people tobegin to come to ment to the city of New Haven. They learn about the grips with their own personal attitudes which of course various places in New Haven that might be ofboth fi- influence their behavior. Many times t:ainees have nancial, cultural, educational value to them. They take difficulty with adapting the mores and the habits and trips to many of these places. They go to manydifferentconforming to the standards that's expected of them in types of places of industry, factories, to ourtelephone training and they confuse that with what they feel is company, to our gas company to seehow people work, totheir personal privilege of deciding how they might Winchester, to many of the places as I said to find outthewant to act. We have in our society today quite kind of jobs that they think they might be interested in. troubled timesthe cities themselves are troubled Social living is just as it implies. we have many people who really arefrustratedthey see the society as being organizedagainst them, they MR. ARMENTROUT: In Philadelphia, OIC operates a see the white man as beingthe adversary, they're not feeder center. Those persons motivated through the sure any more that equal opportunityis really going Adult Armchair Education program likely will be en- to ever be a functional concept in our societyand rolled in pre-vocational studies at the OIC feeder center.these attitudes certainly influence their ability, capa- Frederick Miller, deputy executive director of OIC bility and potential to learn. explains why most hard-core unemployed cannot be put immediately into vocational training. MR. FARER: My name is James Farer. I'm the Branch Manager here at the center which is lwated MR. MILLER: We have found that if you do put a personin the heart of the what we usually call "ghetto." directly into a vocational class, his chances of succeeding This building was the prototype for all the OICs in that class are not as good as if he hadbeen through which now exist all over the country. It was started some prevocational training ororientation to prepare back in 1963 where Dr. Leon H. Sullivan and Rev. him for the vocational experience. Now this is especiallyThomas I. Ritter, who is now our Executive Director,

63 placed in met with certain councilmen,Councilman McIntosh, The follow-up of the trainees once they're I believe, and they together decided tolet us have this a job is a very vital partof the program. First of all, we building which was once a run-downpolice station. want to make sure that there is successin the whole busi- When we came into the building it hadthree feet of ness and success to us meansthe person is trained and water in it. We have rehabilitated thebuilding and employable and em!lloyed. Then in turn, neshould be an this was the beginning of OIC here inPhiladelphia. asset to the employer and this meansthat we have .to We teach the following courses: We havewelding, follow through with the employer to find outhow he is sheet metal, machine tool operation,teletype, the making out on the job, get an idea from thetrainee as restaurant course including in that courseis waitress well as the employer, the effectiveness of thetraining training and commercial cookingwealso have on our and in many cases to help that employee toadjust to the second floor the power sewing classes,the drafting new work situation.Many of our trainees have not had class, electronic assembly, and thecommercial labora-regular employment particularly in theoccupational tory training. areas that we train for along period of time and this Some of the courses run an averageof nine weeks, becomes very vital. but other courses such as our machinetool operations People from the ghetto, people from veryhumble class, our chemistry lab class, they run aslong as 25 kinds of backgrounds and circumstancescertainly can weeks. With the shorter courses, as in powersewing, be trained and our experience hasconfirmed this a you'll find that we try to get all of ourtrainees to learnthousand times over. They are motivated, given some to operate all the pieces ofequipment. By so doing theylegitimate vehicle through which they can maximize be trained can be more versatile tothe employer. their potential. They will be trained and can In our power sewing class, if atrainee is not able toand I think we've demonstrated that wesuccessfully spend the whole nine weeks in the course,she can learnhave trained them because the motivation isthere, in a two-week's span it's latent, and any individual and a stereotypewhich to operate one piece of equipment lost and be placed on a job. characterizes this group of people as being a But in our longer courses, inasmuch as we aredeal-cause is simply a stereotypethat intelligent people apply. ing with all kinds of age spans hereand also we are deal-should not hold on to because it just doesn't ing with persons with all kinds ofeducational background, There's a great deal of heterogeneity among the we find it necessary tohave what we call cut-off points.group of people we'retalking about, there are indi- the These cut-off points will show thatalthough a person can-vidual gems there who, given a right opportunity, of not complete the course, atleast he can go a certain developmental opportunities, experiences, years length and about three months or sohe'..,placed on the exposure, there's no tellingwhere many of these entry level on a job. people will go, what they can do and the contribution For instance: Take the course inthe machine tool they can make. Sooh yes they can be trainedand operation, after three or four monthstraining, he can bethey want to be trained and you show them alegiti- placed as a machine tool helper. mate, honest situation they can be in andthey will be Incidentally, I think we should also knowthat all of trained. our courses arestructured according to the needs and desires of industry. We have in every area anindustrial advisory group, and this group enlightens us asto how toMR. BOOTH: Now, ladies and gentlemen, we can go structure the course and what toteach. along with the program. Let me go along with you because there are some MR. MILLER: Well, the business inindustry, the repre-very interesting things tobe gained out of the remainder sentatives from the various companies hasbeen a greatof the program to bridge the gap nowbetween that Elm resource to us in the areaof advising with respect to ourand what we are going to hear. curriculum. The technical advisorycommittees are or- Let me again identify the four techniqueswhich the ganized which are made up of peoplewho represent not film illustrated: only certain companies but particularoccupations. Many No. 1. Recruitingor the outreach; companies have supplied representativeswho are crafts- No. 2. Basic educationor literacy training; men, craftsmen in theirparticular areasand they help No. 3. Vocational, ( r job skill, training;and us to structure acurriculum which is also job related so No. 4. The follow-upor job coaching. that once we have provided training, it'straining that will Now, then, for somet iing else:I would like to out- be directly related to the needsof the employer. Now Iline for you very briefly, a program forcommunity think this becomes very important.They advise us in action. And it will take just a minute to do it. other ways. In the type of trainingequipment, help us As you would expect, there are steps involvedin get equipment, they help us withthe placement. We getthis program, too. feedback from employers with respect towhat areas of The first step is a method of attacka process change or modification we ought to employin our pro- and we call it the "Forward America" process,which tested, and grams so that the training issensitive and responsive tothe National Chamber has developed and the needs of industry. which works. 64 The process here is a technique to organize people Recruiting the urban unemployedand the follow-up, for action and to relate one problem to another. For or job coaching, after employmentare so vitally im- example, hard-core unemployment cannot be solved portant, that we have invited two experts to answer your simply by providing jobs. The problem reaches into questions, so that you can benefit from their experience. the schools, into homes, and into our welfare institu- May I present, at this time, a man you saw in the tions. film, and who is from Opportunities Industrialization "Forward America" is an organizational approach Center in Philadelphia, Mr. Ronald Howard. And I will to help you look at the total community and its wide ask him to come to the stage. Mr. Howard. range of problems. It will help you mobilize the re- And now may I present a man who has wide experi- sources necessary to deal with hard-core unemploy- ence in the area of job coaching, Mr. David Henry. ment and other problems on a priority basis. Mr. Henry, will you join us, too, so we can ask you some This "Forward America" process is described in aquestions? brochure, a copy of which you will find in your take-home As I mentioned a few moments ago, the re-evalua- kit of materials, which will be given to you when we re- tion or accommodation of entry-job requirements to the cess for lunch.I hope you will read this "Forward hard-core unemployment problem is of critical im- America" brochure carefully, and then write us if you portance. would care for additional information. So, we have invited Mr. C. L. Windsor of Mc- The second step in a successful program for com- Donnell-Douglas Corporation, and Mr. Lloyd E. Dyer munity action is to recruit the leadership at the grass- of the Chesapeake and Potomac Telephone Companies roots level in your citythe leadership that is essentialto share with us the experiences of their companies. to help you make your plansand to help implement And they will join us up here now. them. Now, I am sure Mr. Howard will agree with me With the help of this leadership, you can determine,that we should turn to other members of the panel first, and evaluate, what is now being doneand what is being because he has stated his case so well on film. We planned for the future of your community, in providing will come to him in just a moment, but we will go first basic literacy, job orientation and vocational training to ask Mr. Henry to describe briefly the Jobs Now pro- for youths and adults. gram in Chicago. It seems to be an excellent one. The third step is to keep a continuing inventory of Tell us what you found necessary in the way of job current and anticipated entry-job openings, in order thatcoaching. Mr. Henry. time, money and effort will not be wasted in training people for job openings which do not exist when the MR. HENRY: Jobs Now is the result of riots on the training is completed. This is common sense. West Side and North Side of Chicago in 1966. The De- The fourth step in a successful program for com- partment of Labor finances the program through the munity action is to encourage employers to re-examineCity of Chicago. It is a two-week orientation program and to re-evaluatetheir entry-level job standards, in for hard-core unemployable youthyoungsters who order to maintain a realistic relationship to job re- would not sit still for a training or retraining program quirements. because of `,eir feelings about these various programs. There are five other important steps in this pro- The two-week orientation consists of human rela- gram for community action, but I will not enumerate tions training, money management, transportation and them here. You will find them spelled out in another peronal hygiene. pamphlet in your take-home kit of materials. At the end of this two-week period, they are placed This pamphlet has a long name, but it tells the directly into employment. At this point, we assign a story: "Guidelines for Programs to Hire and Train job coach, a person who works with the parti,lipant from Out-of-School Youth and the Hard-Core Unemployed." the time he enters employment through the end of our When you read this pamphlet, and I don't mean to contractwhich may be one year, may be six months. kid about it, because it is basically essential, you will But he is our responsibility from that point on. We are see this program for community action is rooted in a responsible for insuring that he receives all the sup- couple of basic principles. No. 1 is the involvement of portive services necessary to remain employedthat leadership in the ghetto from the outset. And No. 2. he receives the support from the employer and from Making the hard-core unemployed literate and trained our end as far as his needsthat he feels wanted on the for job openings, and then they are ready for the hiring job. We take him to work at the beginning to make sure process, which everybody is looking for. that he is oriented and knows the modes of transporta- There is one other pamphlet in your take-home kit,tiongetting back and forth. to which I would like to call your attention, and which I We are talking primarily about the gang-oriented urge you to examine carefully. youth who, because of the influences of his community, It is called "Training the Urban Unemployed for or his own peers, sometimes does not react as society Entry-Level Jobs," and contains a wealth of experience says he should reactso that there are numerous sup- already gained jen a variety of programs. ports that are needed, and we provide this with the job coach.

65 MR. BOOTH: Thank you, Mr. Henry. You obviously Another thing we didwe took a more lenient atti- have an excellent program there, and we want to cor..e tude toward previous employment histcry and general back and ask you more questions about it in just a few misstatements on the application, where previously we minutes. had been very rigid. Now I am going to ask Mr. Windsor to tell usabout On our medical examination, we found out that a what his company has done to accommodate job entry number of adjustments had to be made in this area. requirements to the kinds of people seeking jobs in his For example, we normally reject medically for three firm. premiseshazard to self, hazard to other employees, and for insurance liability on the part of the company, MR. WINDSOR: First of all, I want to be sure that you inasmuch as everybody who comes to work for us is understand, I am not an expert in this field, as some- required to carry the group-insurance program. body previously mentioned.I could be just one of you, We pretty well waived the insurance liability who is in the audience, brought out of the audience this portion on this program. I think probably one of the morning, to recite a story of what happened in our greatest things was that we gave the interviewers of company. the company the authority to make the decision re- In the latter part of 1965 we faced an 18-months gardless of tests or any other criteria, which we pre- hiring program of approximately 25,000 people. This viously establishedif the interviewer at the employ- was necessary to meet contractcommitments for in- ment office felt he had an individual who really wanted creased production of the many versions of the F-4. a job and wanted to go into the programand, as a We were faced with the question whether we would result of the interview, he felt it was possible. We establish new facilities which were available out of then permitted the interviewer to make that decision, the State of Missouri or whether we go along with the and it was not questioned. local labor market. We had previously hired one out of every four- We had two problems on each side. No. 1. On the teen applicants that appeared at our employment out-of-state program, it required an investment of ap- office lobby, but during this program, we hired one proximately $6 to $8 million in order to activate a out of every four who applied for a job. facility. And also, we would have been faced with an How did it work? What are the conclusions? unknown quality on the local labor market in that area. Well, there are many obvious conclusions that could And, as usual,you have such things as time lags and be drawn. But again we are not sociologists and we starting up a new facility, and less control than normal have not spent extensive sums of money to explore over a facility that is 500 miles awayfrom the main this program completely. However, I do have a few plant. In the local labor market we were faced with points I think are worth mentioning. We did maintain approximately 3 per cent unemployed. The draft at that schedules and quality of product. We feel the full in- time was cutting very heavily into the local available formation and story is not yet known, but we do know males, 18 to 25. We thought we could get more women that many of these people are less flexible and adapt- into the labor force, but we weren't sure about that. able to change than we thought they might be. This was a question. And another question was: Could We did find outand supervision generally we reduce the entry requirements into ourvestibule agreedthat the program exceeded expectations. And training programs? one of the most surprising comments wasthat we The decision was made to use the local labor found that our supervision specifically cited the per- market and to adjust the entry requirements as neces- formance of Negro women as outstanding. sary, and I want to assure you that this wasnot a social decision. It was purely an economic decision. In the MR. BOOTH: Thank you very much. manufacturing industry type jobs, we estimated the need Ladies and gentlemen, these two men, as you can for 15,000 trainees for the 18-month period. recognize from their companies, manufacture or use We actually hired and trained 15,189 of these, of highly sophisticated equipment, which requires some which 5633 were Negroes. high degrees of skills, so this is an inspiring story. To accomplish this, we adjusted entry requirementsMr. Dyer now will tell us about what his company has as follows: We immediately dropped the requirement been experimenting with on a pilot basis. for the high-school graduate, as unreal and impossible to meet. We reduced our test requirements as an entryMR. DYER: I confess that I am somewhat reluctant to into our vestibule training programs. It went some- tell you how we tried to accommodate our entry-job re- thing like this. quirements to the problem of hiring hard-core em- High school gradsno test; for those individuals ployees, because I am afraid that the impression may with some high school, we tested only for a minimum be created that we are holding ourselves up as an ability to learn. We threw out the old test standards example. for an eighth-grade individual, if they had any shop Then, in the words of George Bundy, we regard the experience at all; we also hired them if we felt they uplifting of others as the means of one's own self- had had a minimum ability to learn. esteem. That is not the case at all. In fact, I am not at

66 all sure we know more about this problem than youdo. previous employment without notice, excessive over- We don't have any gimmicks. We are notembarked on weight, lack of reliable child care arrangements, un- a fancy named program, and justhow successful or un- willingness to work the hours assigned, inability to successful what we are doing will be is impossible to speak understandably, and criminal convictions. tell at this point. The training process is difficult,because in the We are doing it because we think it is right todo it, main, their ability to learn is reallydeficient. But our the right thing to do, and possibly will be alittle bit special training and coaching approach has,in most constructive in the massive urban situationof which we cases, seemed to result indemonstrably greater motivation and desire to succeed. And thisis a large part all are a part. approach, such Our effort is associated with theconcentrated em- of the battle. We can recognize that any ployment programs in Washington and Baltimore.The as this, which makesexceptions, that is, provides question of CEP that we are involved in isthe Jobs Now special opportunities and treatment foremployees, but danger of being contested portion which Mr. Henry already hasdiscussed from not for the others, would be in the Communi- his vantage point in Chicago. by the union. We explained to our union, Last summer, Secretary of Labor Wirtzcalled to- cation Workers of America, the purposeof our effort, and found them most gether a number of Washington businessmenand ex- and the way we planned to proceed, plained the CEP idea to them. He described thetask of understanding. signed a joint finding jobs and training unqualified disadvantaged We and the union worked out and minority groups, members of such minority groups,to memorandum of understanding in which the unionpermits the centralus up to one year in which tomake exceptions to normal fill these jobs as a central problem, perhaps required problem in the entire urban situation. practices in each individual case before we are We all were asked to do our part byworking with to declare that this hard-core specialtrainee can or CEP. We recognize that at the outset todo what was cannot do the work, and if so, willhenceforth not be being asked of usthat is, to hire thereally unqualified, treated more liberally or consideratelythan any other hard-corc--that it would be of no avail to change or employee. lower entry standards a little bit. In the meantime, the union will not enter agrievance, The objective was to reach 'way downand give a claiming equivalent treatment for a regularemployee, most unusual opportunity to jobless whowouldn't even benor attempt to use anyspecial consideration given to a marginal in our employment office. We decided that we hard-core trainee as establishing a regular precedent. could and would do this, not by changing normal em- I think the need of such a commitmentis clear. ployment office standards, but by eliminating any speci-We simply couldn't run our business if wehad to take fied or consistent set of standards forapplicants re- such elaborate steps in connection with everyemployee, cruited for us by CEP, whom both the CEP staffand we and we couldn't make successfulperformers out of the obtained, and we felt might possibly be trained todo a hard-core employees, unless we did it for them,also. Com- telephone job satisfactorily. Also, the local Equal Employment Opportunity Wf would then give these hard-coreemployees a missions in Washington and Baltimorecooperated by great deal of support in the form of internalcoaching, stating unequivocally in writing that theywould not re- special background training, extra time andconsidera- gard such special standards and considerations as applied across tiol in terms of supervision, assignment,transfers, andestablishing precedents which must be discipline, in an intensive effort to make thememploy- the board to any applicant foremployment. able; that is, to qualify them to do their jobs in asatis- So far also, there has been good acceptanceof this factory manner, that would maintain what we hope is a effort, and approach by other employeeswith whom the Our plan is high, overall quality of telephone service. hard-core group is working side by side. The jobs assigned are regular entryjobsoperator,that we will continue this effort as a partof the new clerical and non-craft, that in all other cases arefilled National Alliance of Businessmen program.And with from the employment office. All of themhave progres-the extra training that that programprovides for or can sion opportunities for advancement in payand, depend- provide, I think our program may be even more suc- ent upon performance, to better and moredemanding cessful. jobs. We are not trying to set any quantitaiverecords, but instead to do our best to help each personsucceed. MR. BOOTH: Thank you. So far, we have hired 54, of whom 50 arestill on the I am going to move as rapidly as possible with pay roll after periods offrom 2 to 6 months. Only one these questions, because they are excellent, indeed. of the four losses has been a dismissal. Not oneof Mr. Howard, let's start with you. They are in- those hired would have qualified under ournormal terested in your Outreach program that was sowell standards, because of deficiencies in reading or compu-described in the film, but the question is: Inasmuch as tational skills, poor attendance records inschool, poor your program provides no trainingallowances, how is attitude or work record in previousemployment, left it that you have reached the hard,-,c.re tmciripIoyedand

67 are you really reaching the gang members who have 18 to 20.I would say our present group of OIC trainees juvenile criminal records or police records? have approximately 25 per cent in the 18-to-20 age bracket. Another 35 per cent are in the age bracket of MR. HOWARD: I think the answer to that is a little bit 21 to 30. We are, therefore, reaching the youth. We complex. First of all, let's take training allowances. are reaching younger adults as well as older adults. Right now, you know, I see there is considerable Are they hard core? Well, that is a difficult ques- thought to the effect of the benefits and advantages and tion. What do you mean by hard core? The standard or disadvantages of training allowances. Up to this point, criterion that is used by OIC in defining hard core would OIC in Philadelphia has been operational better than include some of the following ingredients, and I would three years now. We have operated our program with- presume, by the way, that many of these criteria or out training allowances of any sort. Our concept in and standards have been established by some of the sources our philosophy is one of sell-help, and the basic moti- of funding for the OIC programs, such as the Department vation concerning the potential of participation in OIC of Labor, etc. program for vocational training is that concept of self- It would include, first of all, people who are basi- help. We feel that concept is strengthened when train- cally functioning below an eighth-grade level of educa- ing allowances are not really part of the motivation or tion. Their educational achievement has not reached an incentive for participation. eighth-grade level, which is usually defined as adult Somebody might ask, first of all, well, can you basic education or functioning in that area. It would in- reach the hard core without training allowances? clude people who are or who have been out of work or And I would say that we canand we have. Not unempinved for 26 consecutive weeks or longer. It perhaps to the fullest degree and not that we are satis- would inciude people whose annual income does not ex- fied with the degree to which we have reached the hard ceed $3600, if they are the head of a household, or core.I think that the definition of hard core is some- $2300, if they are not the head of a household, but simply thing that fluctuates quite widely, and the range would a part of the household. By these standards and criteria, be probably very different, depending on whom you ire we are, in fact, reaching hard core, but I was talking to talking to. Mary Richardson a moment ago here, and her definition I think that we have reached hard core and that we of hard core is much more severe and quite accurate. are not content with the fact that even though we have We are scratching the surface really, and we are con- reached hard core, we realize quite clearly that we scious of this, and are continuing to build new ways and have only just scratched the surface in OIC. For ex- new approaches for reaching even further into the hard ample, in terms of youth, let me jump over for a core. moment to your question concerning the teen-age If you are talking about the winos, the drug addicts gangs, for example. we have people who are in those categorics in OIC. By and large, we went into a slight problem here, We have people with criminal records, but the number only because our program and our target population is or the percentage of people that we are roaching that primarily adults, 18 years of age, or older, and many fit into those kinds of criteria is really very small in of the youth gangs, for example, are consisting of in- proportion to the total number of people who would be dividuals who are considerably younger. defined or which are defined in those kinds of cate- One of the reasons for this is that OIC is not in- gories. tended as a competition against the school system, and Let me say one other thing about training allow- that, in a real sense, would become exactly what would ances and stipends. One of the things that we found is happen. that in many instances, a training allowance is a bless- Many of our teen-age gangs, for example, are very,ing as well as a disadvantage. Many times you will find very discontent with school and are looking for potentialthat if a blanket program or policy of training allow- alternatives to it, and if, for example, OIC is available ances is offered, the motivation for participation be- to people as early as 14, 15, 16 years of age, it is, in a comes the money that is being provided on a weekly sense, an incentive to dropping out of school, which is basis, rather than the job, which is really the focal contrary to the kinds of needs and objectives that OIC point o: OIC training. We don't have time and are not has established. in the business of just training people for the sake of One of the things we attempt to build into our on- training. That is fruitless and a meaningless activity. going vocational training program is the opportunity forWe are training people for jobs, and jobs constitute the what is known as GED programs, which is a high schoolmotivation for participation in our program. Training equivalency diploma, while they are in training. So ourallowances are necessary in many instances, because concept, is ideally to encourage as many people as we have individuals who cannot make it without a train- possible to remain in school. ing allowance. As a result of this, our focus for attention, as a So, in these instances, many times we will either target population, begins at 18 years of age or older, refer them to programs that do offer training allowances usually.I think we are reaching people in that bracket or we will set up alternatives to training allowances.

68 And in OIC's conception of self-help, there are some My estimate really is that the number of people who realistic alternatives to training allowances, such as have been trained and placed in employment would be OJT, which is on-the-job training, where you can, for even larger than that over that period of time. I think example, develop, through a sthff of job development that 4000 people being trained and employed in jobs is a people, who are employed full time in OICyou can de- sufficient record, even if it were the sole and total velop outlets in industry, for example, where an indi- picture. You had a second dimension to that question vidual can go into job training, and can receive money that I might have missed. which will be paid him while he is actually in his training for the job for which he is making application. MR. BOOTH: The average cost of training each appli- Another altrnative is simply stop-gap employment,cant. which is really a very small-scale, immediate job placement, that is meant thus really as a means of supple- MR. HOWARD: The average cost, again I don't remem- menting immediate financial problems that might be en-ber, and I believe that we are talking about between five countered by the trainees, whom we are privileged to and six hundred dollars per trainee. serve. And in this situation, what you are talking about If I can digress for a moment, I think there might really is a kind of tiding or a holding job that can pro- be, if there is need for that specific information, a vide some source of income while the individual is con-gentleman in the audience from OIC, who can answer tinuing his training in OIC. that question, Mr. Elmer Young, who is Executive I think these are just two alternatives to a training Assistant to the Director, and ask him if he has an stipend per se, and I don't mean to imply that we have actual figure. definiteryluded that a training stipend is not desirable.I think we have found, however, that it is not MR. YOUNG: Yes. First, rather than 4000, the figure, the essential ingredient for the participation of hard- as of December 31, 1967, was 4700 that have been placed core unemployed. in productive employmentadding something like $8 So, what is far more important than, for example, amillion a year to the economy of the Delaware Valley. training stipend, is the methods and techniques that yourAnd a third of our trainees, as Mr. Howard said, were agency employs in order to reach and to take the mes- on relief, and because of their now having productive sage, because the real problem in terms of involving theemployment, it is saving the Commonwealth of Pennsyl- hard core is not a question of money. It is really a vania over a million and a half dollars a year that would question of bridging a very vast and a very huge com- have gone out to them in the form of relief checks. munications gap that exists between industry and the As to the question of training costs, the average Establishment, if you want, and the people living in cost now is less than $1000 per trainee. That is taking ghetto neighborhoods. And I think that what is far morehim from the street to the job. That is the newest important and significant for getting the participation offigure. hard core is some means and some techniques that can effectively break that communications gap. That is far MR. HOWARD: Nothing like having a back-up resource more important, to my mind, than a training stipend to present the evidence. per se. MR. BOOTH: What is the level, Mr. Henry, of education MR. BOOTH: One more question, Mr. Howard. How of the youth in your program? many people have you placed in jobs in the three years of your operation and about what is the average cost of MR. HENRY: The average is a tenth-grade education. training each placement? The average participant has a tenth-grade education. We have a few high-school graduates. MR. HOWARD: I don't have the most accurate figures. I can tell you the last that I have here on it, and it is notMR. BOOTH: This questioner says: Do I understand official from my point of view, because I didn't really you to sayyou work primarily with gang-oriented bring that information, but the last time we were talkingyouth? If you do, what kind of local probationary about the total number of job placements that have beenguidance, if any, is available to these youngsters? successfully made as a result of OIC training, 4000 were successfully trained and placed on jobs as a result of MR. HENRY: If you mean by local probationary OIC's efforts. And this really is not even the full picture,guidance, there are a number of youth service agencies because it only represents the number of people who, atin the City of Chicago. We are working with approxi- a point in time, when our organization was capable of mately 40 of them, who provide supportive services for mustering a sufficient follow-up effort and at the point inthe youth in the various communities. Most of these time when we came to realize that follow-up was a man-are community-based operatior,s, although they may be datory requirement of our kind of program, we were citywide, but they focus on va,lous communities able to re-establish contact with people who were placed.throughout the city.

69 The primary organization would be the Illinois Money? He gets that through his activities in tht gang. Youth Commission. Most of their participants are on He has a police record. probation or on paroleso that they have a pretty close I think I had better explain that police recordbe- control over them at that point. cause it ranges from curfew violations to murder. The The city itself provides a c'qnmission on youth wel-majority of the participants who come to our program fare, which deals with any youth who is in trouble with have six or seven arrestsloitering, curfew violation, the law or not. purchase of liquor by a minor. These are the majority of the arrests. These constitute 81 per cent of the ar- MR. BOOTH: This next question, Mr. Henry, asks for rest records of kids from the inner city. They are not a little more of the understanding of the gang member. serious as such, but they are police records. When he It says: What are his personal problems that require goes to apply for a job, he has a police record. job coaching for six months or a year? What does the Loitering means he didn't get off the corner fast job coach do for him? enough for the police officerso he took him down. There are some serious crimeshave no doubts about MR. HENRY: First, I think perhaps I should give somethat. Armed robbery, rape, attempted rape, strong-arm background on the gang-oriented youthwe are talking robberythey are there. But the things that causeG these about the hard core, as he is commonly called. We are would take a sociologist, which I am not, to detail. But talking about a young man or young woman between the the coach's role is to give this man a motivation that will ages of 15 and 21. We have them on both ends of that make him ready to accept his responsibility as an em- scale. They average out about 17 or maybe 18 years ployee, to work with him from the time he is employed of age. They may or may not live at home with their until he becomes a regularly productive employee, until parents. Those that are living with their parents the point where we feel he no longer needs the back up of there is very little communication between the aeult Jobs Now, and the coach. The coach initially takes him and the youth. Most of this communication is with his to work, shows him the way to get thereif necessary, peer group. If he is not living at home with his parents,helps him to fill out the application. he may be out in the street, looking for a place to stay, We at one time wanted to sit in on the actual inter- here today, gone tomorrow. He may be staying in bus view, but we decided at this point, he is on his own. But stations, he may be living with another friend who is only for that period that he is going through the interview. living with his parents. They don't know that the fellow We get with him after the interview to find out Viat is there. His mealshe doesn't know where they are happened, when does he start work, what equipment floes coming from. He reacts under pressure, mostly hostilehe need? We talk with the parents, solicit their help in or out of fear. He is afraid of the Establishment. He getting him up the next morning, or whenever he has to has been led, misled by the various organizations who go to work. We work with the line supervisors, person- want to do good, various organizations who want to ex- nel office, or the man that is working next to him, in ploit him. He is gaining a sophistication about those getting him to understand the participant, and getting him who want to exploit him. He is beginning to realize thatto change his views. the gang is his way of being recognized. He is not a We work in getting the participant to change his views high-school graduate. He doesn't have the same things about business and industry, to accommodate business to back him up as the high-school graduate. He has to and industry. We find that the accommodation has to be have some type of recognition, as all of us do. on both sides. And a young man going into the world of The gang is it. He can elevate himself through his workthese are not their first jobs. They have had efforts in the gang. He exhibits a certain pride in him- numerous jobsthey may have lasted a week to three self and in his organization, whether you like it or not. monthsbut it is a different situation, different people. He has been told by various agenciessuch as If he is made to feel welcome to that job, the chances of YMCA, Youth Centers, Boys Clubsthat if he does cer-his retaining that job are much greater than if we were tain things, he can expect certain results. He has been taking him in as any-Other employee. And this is the disappointed, disillusioned. The gang offers him not point we get across with the coach, that there have to be only the prestige, but he also gets spending money certain follow-up procedures, not only by Jobs Now through illegal activities. That youth feels that the coaching staff, but by the personnel he is working with. world owes him something that he has*been deprived If they accept himif it is no more than showing of, that the adult world doesn't offer anything, that he him where the washroom isthis is needed, if you want has to take what he wants. him to become a productive employee and remain with The coach's jobhis role is to alleviate some of your company. the pressures that come from the rigors of employment. We work with the participants on a weekly basis. Employment means regimentation. We are talking aboutIf he is able to make it to work on time, without any a youth that could not stand the regimentation of even problem, we see him once a week, on the job once a attending school. He dropped out. The school had week. This is also done in his home community. As he nothing to offer him. What more can a job offer him?

70 ,

becomes more acclimated to the job, we lessen our con-essential not to sell them short. When I say that, I tact. For the first several weeks, we are contacting himmean it is preposterous to ass'ime that simply by cre- at least once a week. If he is progressing well at that ating a deadend job, which offers very limited income, point, we make it once every two weeks, but we are that offers no opportunity for growth or movement, constantly in touch with the personnel office, or with thethat you are going to retain anybody. You wouldn't stay line supervisors. We are asking the employer that, if at a job, I am sure, if you felt this was ityou can't the participant is late, we want to be called. Call the go any further than thatcan't make much more coach, so that he can find out whyand correct the situ-moneyand there is no promotional opportimity. ation.It may be that he woke up late.It may be that he I think one of the important ingredients that should doesn't take the right route to work. We want to get to be built into any program that is geared to hard core is him and find out what it is. a recognition that they are also looking for a growth If he misses a day, don't wait and call us two days potential. They are looking for something that they per- latercall us that same day, so we can get to him and haps can invest inthat has some security. This has we will get back to you that same day as to why. his future in it. And all I am suggesting is that there Many of the participants will not call in. They are very, very simple ways of building from an entry- wake up late and decide not to come inembarrassed, level job type of situation, certain stepping stones, that because this is what you expect of them, to come in late,is going to lead to potential promotions, that will lead and/or not come in at all. to a higher income, that will lead to a higher status, in Their rationale is, "I will stay away from the sta- terms of recognition, and respect that the individual has tion".It is an embarrassment. It is their way of copingon the job. And I think it is essential for you in con- with it, not to go innot to face it. sidering possible programs that are geared for the These young people need understrading and help. hard core to build those in. We try to give it from our end, and we are pretty good It is not sufficient and it is totally inaccurate to in working with young people. We are still learning assume that because a person is not working at all and about business and industry. We are asking your co- has never really had a job, that his expectation in operation in dealing with it also, that the help we pro- terms of income is necessarily any lowerso drasti- vide is only partial, that unless it comes from both cally lower than anybody else. They are also looking sides, we will never lick the problem. for the chance to earn six, seven, eight, nine thousand dollars a year, ultimately.I don't think that is very MR. BOOTH: Thank you, Mr. Henry. That is very much in terms of money, and I think, if you build cer- helpful. tain programs that are geared to the hard core, with Mr. Howard, do you want to add something? this in mind, build in a job ladderbuild in a possibility for promotion, and a possibility where you can take MR. HOWARD: Yes, I have a couple of things I would those individuals who show exceptional talents and ex- like to add to that. Some of my concerns, I think, are ceptional leadership ability, and recognize it, so they generated out of the fact that I think many of the kinds can get some kind of feeling of reward, and some feel- of information that most of our audience was looking ing of security in the job, you will find retention is for, particularly in yesterday's session, was some much greater. kind of specific thing that could be applied and fit into One final pointand that is in terms of jot any type of program that is geared toward hard-core coachesone of the things that Brother Henry did not employment, and I think that many things that Mr. mention, and I think he will hit on this before we finish Henry has mentioned is quite necessary and quite ef- this morning, who should be job coaches? I think it is fective. incorrect that you should assume that you go out and I would like to make two additions to what he is hire professional, middle-class social workers, saying. One of the concerns of any program that is teachers, educators, to do this kind of function. initiated by industrythat is geared toward the hard- I am not saying that they cannot dc it.I am saying core---is job retention. Are they going to stay on the that probably you will find greater success if you look job? Let me say, first of all, a lot of times we ap- to and use paraprofessionalsyou use individuals who proach the situation of hard core unemployed with the don't necessarily have college degrees, but have the idea and with certain fixed ideas about what the hard Ph.D. from the streets, who, if you use people who core is, and what we can expect from them. And you come from the target groups, you are trying to use in kind of get into a self-fulfilling prophecy, where you these various programs, and if you balance these para- , expect them not to come in and you act as though they professionals with a limited course from professionals, will not come in and will no ;. be reliable. And, sure who could provide on-going support, supervision and enough, they begin not to come in, and not show up, training to your paraprofessional job coaches. and live up to your expectations and reactions. The same is true in recruitment. If we recruit for Let me go one step further. If you are talking OIC, we will not hire social . orkers. We will hire in- about hard-core unemployed, I think it is extremely dividuals out of the communities that we are trying to

71 reach. These are the people who understand what is are 100-per-cent military contractor in the City of happening. They can talk in the language of the people St. Louis in our plant there, and we are iavolved in that you are trying to reach. That really is one of the security problems. most effective things that you can do to cut through the I could say this, that, basically, over the years, we communications gapthe kind of people who are most have taken a liberal attitude toward the individual who likely for a gang member to relate to is not someone has been convicted, but not of an act of aggression, or who is 'way up here and the gang member is 'way down bodily harm type of situation.I think, unfortunately, here, but somebody who is pretty much at the same this is like a lot of things. We have a tendencyevery- level, and can talk straight talk to them. thing has to be categorized and put into a certain com- A lot of times you will find that there is a tendency partment. We would like to go with the individual in- to use evasion. There is a tendency to use the rationale.terview type of situation and look at the patterns. There is a tendency to use shabby excuses for why you Very frequently, you find somebody who had done should not do certain things. The hard core will give ussomething back in 1935, and led a pretty clean life ever all kinds of ridiculous excuses for what they feelwhy since. We don't think that will give us a problem when they should not participate in our kind of programbut we go to the military for security clearance, nor do we there "ain't" no such thing when I come with a recruiter.feel that that individual has followed a pattern of crime There is no such thing as you are not going to partici- during his life. pate. Of course, you will. You have no choice. There is no argument that you can tell any re- MP. BOOTH: Do you gentlemen, from the standpoint of cruiter that will be sufficient to say why you can't, in recruiting and coaching, agree this is a good approach? fact, participate. And I think 7ou need to think more in Do you have something to add? terms of utilizing paraprofessional people who can deal MR. HOWARD: Let me just suggest one thing. OIC is with the hard core in terms of recruitment, in terms of established on the premise that is basically opposed to job coaching, and a number of other aspects of the en- screening people out. Our conscious premise is to tire cycle that you are talking about. screen everybody in. Even with teaching and instruction, I would say, What that means is that, very frequentlyyou know take some of the workers who are doing the kinds of jobsa criminal record, for exampleparticularly at the that you are training hard core people for and use them point of recruitment, is totally superfluousbecause as a focal point for training as opposed to necessarily our program is structured to individual needs as well always using that structured professional, college de- as well as somebody that has been clean all his life. gree, Ph.D., to do the trainingbecause you need people So at the point of recruitment, you know, the ques- who can break through that communications gap. And tion is not broached. It is not even raised. When they one way of doing it quite effectively is using people that come into vocational training in OIC, once again, it is are actually more in tune with the needs, the problems, not a screening-out process. And consequently, one the attitudes, the language, the realities of the people weof the things that we find is usually individuals have a are talking about, that we are trying to reach. way of concealing their criminal record, or any kind of incarceration that may have occurred in the past, so MR. BOOTH: Thank you, Mr. Howard. I say, it is even difficult for us to assess the number of This grows out of what Mr. Henry started talking people who have had criminal records, except to say about in answer to my question, and I would like to ask that, based on the type of individuals in terms of the the employer members of the panel, first, and then characteristics that they reveal, I mean now the sta- Mr. Henry and Mr. Howard: How have you dealt with tistics, how much school did they get, where they are prison records? Mr. Henry talked about men having living, income levels, etc. You could rest pretty well been charged with certain things, but he also talked assured that a good percentage, or a fair number, of about there being real police and prison records to dealOIC trainees have had criminal records. But I think in with. How do you deal with them? Mr. Dyer. our situation, it is, basically, a process of screening people in and our building is really upon that particular MR. DYER: The convictions that we have run into most block. frequently, have been for larceny and assault. The group Now again, the attitude of industry, once they go of men, young boys who have had these records, that for jobs, is something that varies, and it has not posed came to us from CEP, are quite young, and in all cases much of a problem for OIC graduates. we have had those who have not been in prison, been convicted and put on probation, or things of that nature. MR. HENRY: We have a slightly different approach to the problem. Because of our relationship with the MR. BOOTH: Mr. Windsor. police department in (,hicago, two of our staff have been trained to go th: ough their records, so that we MR. WINDSOR: That is a very difficult question to have the police records of each participant that comes answer because of the type of business we are in. We to the program.

72 And so we, We then ask the employer whichtype of records he just won't have this opportunity at all. will accept. And we don't send them thetype that he therefore, move them into the hours thatthey can work, embarrassment of the during this first year. will not accept. This avoids the problems of youngster or young adult, when he goesin, that he is The union agreement is concerned with discipline cases, r)jected for that police record. seniority, and relative treatment of Another reason is that the participantsthemselves where we will give extra considerationand extra atten- employ, despite have been known to go on a jobinterview and tell our tion to the needs of the hard core that we staff that they don't have a policerecord, and then makethe fact that this will put them in aposition of taking they get to the employer and ex-precedence under seniority agreements,and that sort a true confession once who are regular plain all of the various records thatthey havemostly of thing, away from union members they are juvenile, which are notrecorded, and are not employees. for public view. So that we try toavoid thisand it has juvenile record MR. BOOTH: Mr. Dyer, will youforecast the per :eutage helped that we noted only that he had a after one year and we can counsel them to this point. of hard core employees who will make it of a transitional period, compared to thenormal per- MR. BOOTH: Very good. Thank you. centage of work force? Are currentindicators en- Mr. Dyer, do you believe the one-yearspecial con-couraging or discouraging? sideration agreement with the unions islong enough? of its en- MR. DYER: I would say that, based on theexperience Will you lose employees as a consequence to six forcement? hat we have had with people on the program up months or maybe a little less, that theretention factor MR. DYER: This program we areinvolved in has not is as good or better as it is elsewhere. Ibelieve that been in effect for a year as yet, so wehaven't gone be- one of the factors in this isthat the hard core em- yond that date in any case. I expect there maybe some ployee knows that he can't go out quite soeasily as the cases where it might be notlong enough, but very few. person who qualifies at theemployment office, and get Just to give you an example, itdoesn't take us a another job. He knows that we want him.We spend a learn to do in a job, considerable period of time with him. In fact, aweek year to find out what a person can orienta- whether he can or cannot do it. But, forexample, we after we get them from the CEP, from their have one girl now who is being trained tobe an informa-tion program, we give them our ownorientation course tion operator. The normal training period tobe an in- in such things as personal hygiene andhealth and tele- formation operator is four and a half days.We have phone usage, and attitudes on the job. And thebig given this girl 30 days of training, and shestill can't bething in this attitude on the job that youhave to get an information operator. Atthis point we recognize theacrossand we do, I think, get acrossis we want you fact that she won't ever be able to l';arn that. to become a successful employeeof the telephone com- We are now going to put her in anotherjoba non- pany. This is quite a revelationto many of the people. operating jobtry to train her for that. That maytake a We found that the response they ran intopreviously makes all the differ- period of time. I can't tell you at this pointwhether we is that they are not wanted. This come out with this girl, soshe will be able to do a job ence in the world in termsof the effect on their own successfully, or not. We certainly hope so.We will givemotivation. her every opportunity. But there willbe cases in which people, simply because they MR. BOOTH: Mr. Windsor, is thelack of adequate we will have to dismiss significant factor can't do it.I hope very few of these happen. mass transportation in ghetto areas a in the unemployment problem? If so,how do you meet MR. BOOTH: That answers the partof the question, it, or what improvements would yourecommend? will you lose employees as a consequence of its en- in the City forcement? MR. WINDSOR: This question has come up of St. Louis a number of times and thefact of the MR. DYER: You see, mainly the probleminvolved with matter is that yesterday I had-the opportunityto re- industry by the union is not this training process thatI talk about, view a study of the Negro in the aerospace but rather the special considerations indiscipline. Or Dr. Northrup out of the WhartonSchool of Business, handling on the job. Girls come to us and, becausetheyand he mentions this, too. have problems at home with children, in many cases The experts seem to think that this is aproblem. illegitimate children, they can't work certain hours. Now, again, we are speaking of statistics,and we find Therefore, they can'tthe seniority applicationsof the that we have in our organization ashare-the-ride type of indi- union contract do not apply to them.If we don't give situationand if you have a nucleus of a group until they can be- viduals in, shall I say, the ghetto area, theyhave a them a job at least for the first year work. It gin to get an incomethey can comewhen they can or tendency to seem to get together and get to the CEP program can arrange child carefor them, theydepends on the value that you are dealing with.We

73 were dealing with large numbersof people.I don't Mr. HowardIs it possible that hard-core hiring think it is as big a problem as publicized. There were can cause problems and difficulties for presently experts from FORTUNE magazine that came to St. employed black employees, black persons? What Louis, and had quite an expertise on this, too. should we do to prepare for this? I take it this is I do know that there are some federal funds being from the stand of the employer. made available for this purpose, because our facilities are 17 miles from downtown St. Louis;however, I am MR. HOWARD: Institute in your businesses a course sure, like a lot of problems, it is aproblem. How big in black history, so that the workers who work for you a problem, I don't knowI don'tthink it is as big as thecan understand the problem of the other brothers. experts have it. I don't really think that is a significant problemor that it would create a significant problem. I think that MR. BOOTH: Mr. Henry, you mentioned you help the one of the things that should precede a program that gang youth with transportation. Would youexplain what is seriously geared toward the hard core is some type the problem is and how you meet it? of employee training that is geared to the entire employees of your particular organization. And I say MR. HENRY: We have an orientation, which consistsofthat because it becomes extremely necessary that ir1 a transportation. Many of the youth who are in the pro- sense they become attuned to top management's gram cannot find their wayaround Chicago. They are thoughts and thinking concerning a particular program. confined to their own immediate area, which may be It is the kind of problem top management might under- four, six, eight blocks. We have youths and adults in stand quite clearlythe objectives, the goals, the pur- the City of Chicago that have never seen Lake Michigan.poses, the worthiness of particular programs, such as So there has to be an orientation to the modesand meansa hard-core training program, or somekind of involve- of transportation within the city. Most of our jobs are ment of the hard-corebut if that is aot disseminated in the suburban a...eas, and very far out. So we have to down the line to the rank-and-file worker, who is find some method of teaching them to move within the going to be working perhaps side by side with this city itself before they would venture out into the suburbshard core, I think it is going to potentially create prob- and suburban areas. lems, only because of the lack of understanding, the Transportation is a problem.It is a problem for lack of conviction that this is, in fact, absolutely the anyone, especially in a large metropolitan area. We policy of your particular company, in that it is not a devised several training exercises where a participant question of, you know, maybe we will make this work, is given a total of 60 cents, which will guarantee him or maybe we won't.I think it is very important, then, round-trip fare. Before this, he is oriented on a city to institute some type of employee relations in terms map provided by the city transportationauthority, show-of information to the other members of your particular ing the various routes by both subway and surface company, perhaps even desirable,involving them at all transportation. When the instructor feels he is ready, levels in certain stages, or in certain activities, that he gives him 60 cents and the name of one of the insti- can help to facilitate the success of ahard-core tutions in the city. There are two routes. He takes oneoriented program. route and comes back by another. I would say that other than some type of orienta- When he arrives there, he meets another of the tion or training for your present employees, that trainees, who went on the other route. We find that thisprobably would suffice and, if you can get them in the also builds confidence in being able to do something on same spirit, you may initiate a programby which they his own. can begin to perceive the same sense of urgencyand We can take them to work. The first two or three problem that is associated with the employment prob- days we do that, but we do not have the staff to make lems of hard core. And if they can, in some way, be this a continuous practice. made empathetic to the kinds of problems and attitudes We have even looked into bussing, providing buses, and needs that hard-core employees would have, I with the cooperation of the employer. If we can get think it would probably overcome this situation.I enough participants there working on a particular job, don't think it is an outrageous idea at all to institute would they be willing on an experimental basis to pro- courses in Negro history, or minorityhistory, to in- vide a bus that would come into the inner city and take sure that some of the necessaryattitudes are devel- them back and forth? oped, although I think really society is almost building It is not as hard to get them to go along with this that in. program as you might think, because most of their If you were speaking about other employees, I employees have trouble getting to and from work. This think people are becoming much more conscious causes turnover, even with the regular employees. particularly if you are talking about other Negro employees or other non-white employeesthey MR. BOOTH: Chicago transportation has always puz- are becoming extremely conscious of akind of zled me, so I would like to come out and take some of identification with those that have not made it.But your coaching one of these days.

74 4.41,

I think employee relations, somekind of orien- in Washington, Baltimore andNorfolk, is to put them tation and training would be one answerto that together, so the jobs available are filled bypeople will- possibility. ing to take those jobs. Henry and Mr. MR. BOOTH: Very good.Thank you. MR. BOOTH: One more question to Mr. Mr. Windsor, how can first-lineoupervision be Howard. Mr. Howard, this saysStewartAlsop in a EVENING POST re- induced to accept and continue fullyin aiding the satis- recent article in THE SATURDAY factory employment of the hard-coreunemployed, that ferre0 to what was called the psychologically unem- out by a we are talking about? ployed. These were people who were singled former leader of Pride as being the realproblem. MR. WINDSOR: I think this is asubject that probably What is your view on this phenomenon? has received increased attentionrecently and certainly under some programs, there is a lotof publicity to the MR. HOWARD: Well, I wisl I had readMr. Alsop's effect that this is one of the things youwill have to do, article, so I could know what the meaningis he puts on think and do it very quickly. "psychologically unemployed" or unemployable. I In our particular company, wehave had a pre- that in OIC, for example, in Philadelphia,when our employment, presupervisory training program,before programs were started, manypeople considered that specifically we appoint first-linesupervision. the target group that our program was At other levels we have had training programsin geared to reach was, in fact, the unreachables,and the management development, if I may usethat terminology.unemployables. This is on other levels of supervision upthe line. And let me just say that I am thoroughlyconvinced However, at the time that Congresspassed the there is absolute genius in the ghettosnoquestion Civil Rights Act of 1964, we put on aspecial program about it. And what has to happen is to findconstructive for 3500 supervisors, which was atwo-hour program. outlets for releasing and tapping thatpotentialthat have very fixed And we took them into the entirehistory of the civil genius is really there. Most people rights laws, from the signing of theDeclaration, all ideas about hard-core people, and what theircapabili- "we," I the way through the present time. ties are. And I think that we tendwher I say We found our supervisors werepretty receptive to mean basically middle-class societytends to put into a this thing. The policy was very clearlydelineated on box, and a very narrow box, I might add,what those and down, and we didn't have any troublewith it. They capabilities are and what those potentialities are, knew what the law was. If they wanted to stayin that the psychological attitudes that obtain. psycho- job, that was one of the expectations ofthem by man- Let's say that when you are talking about logical attitudes, attitudes can be changed, aswell as agement. well as behavior. As a matter of fact, I don'tthink MR. BOOTH: In addition to relaxingindustry stand- behavior will be changed significantly unlessattitudes ards, did you also relax on-the-jobstandards, such as are first changed. And Ihave yet to find an individual, work performance, tardiness,absenteeism, garnish- for example, who is incapable of being put into a pro- ments, and so forth? If so, what is thereaction of gram where he sees genuineopportunity and a genuine home to your unions and yourolder employees? promise for himself, something that strikes him. MR. WINDSOR: I don't think there is an easy wayto This means menot that other person, thatother answer that question. Yes, wedid.It is one of these guythat is going to be genuinely affected and genu- things you have to take on a case-by-casebasis. We inely improved, as a result of that particular program have had very little friction between thewhite and or that particular effort. call a double stand- So that my basic feeling is that there may,in fact, Negro groups on what you might because of ard, although it has occurred on occasion,and we feel be a small nucleus of people who have, handle it on a day- some perfectly legitimate reasonsand because of their it has been very minor, and you can circumstances, moved, in a sense, by-day basis. own background and to the far end, in the sense of completelyrejecting any there is constant dis- possibilities of this society being meaningfulfor them. MR. BOOTH: Mr. Dyer, it says of people, cussion of hard core and otherunemployment, yet the I think that is a supremely small proportion of job vacancies. Why can't and I think that there may be more people, evenin newspapers list columns service they get together? black communities, for example, who pay lip to that idea, but who, in fact, don't believeit them- MR. DYER: That is, of course, themajor objective of selves, because in the very real sense, I thinkthat all looking the program Mr. Humphrey wasdescribing last even- the people in ghetto neighborhoods are really ing. They ought to be put together.The objective of for a legitimate and a genuine opportunity topartici- the NAB program that we aresupporting wholeheartedlypate.

75 They will be the first to say and the first to con- sary.I would say there is one other ingredientthat demn whity, and they will be the first to flare up is how you attempt to reach the people whom you are against the system, but, frequently, that may be a trying to attract. The first step of motivation is really rationale, because there is a situation where they have communicating in some way that involves the total pop- not been able to find any real outlets that have enabled ulation, and I think, if there is any one lesson or any them. So that when people say that, you latow, that one single message that I can leave with you, it will be things are improving in the countryby and large, the this.If you rely on the conventional means of com- reality is that, as far as my people are concerned, municating what any specific program has to offer for they have improvedpeople like me, maybe, who has hard-core people, you are not going to attract a large been through college.I am middle class.I can take number of people, L9cause radio, television, news- advantage of many of the civil rights legislation and papers is not enough. acts and laws that have come aboutor Brother Henry You need a message that can be transmitted one to or some of the other people on our panels. But what one, face to facewhere there is not going to be a pos- about that hard-core guy? Here is a guy thatbasicallysibility of slipping and sliding around, why I shouldn't no laws, very little legislation, very little in the way of participate, for examplebecause of all the reasons programs have really been directed at meeting his and all the normal reactions. We are talking about needs. people who have had extremely poor experiences in Make no mistake, that is the huge, overwhelming any kind of learning situation, and certainly are not majority of the black people, black America. So what anxious to go back into it, even though they recognize that means is that, if you come through with programs more clearly than you do the need for training and that genuinely meet the needs of that group of people, educati )n.It is just like, you knowif you talk about a programs that are not shams, programs that are not test to a hard-core person, they are ready to go the games, programs that are serious in terms of genu- other way, because that is something t" ey are afraid of. inely involving them, I think you will find that that And they are not going to be willing to jump into that psychological attitude or aversion to society or to situation without some direct face-to-face ldnd of participation is basically a mythand really I believe counseling. it is a myth. I think that is one of the essential reasons why all programs, geared to hard-core, need to build in as part MR. BOOTH: Thank you, Mr. Howard. How can we, of the necessary resources for that program certain Mr. Henry, motivate the young Negro drop-out to enter techniques that are designed for outreach mcruitment the vocational training schools which are available, techniques that are going to enable potentially indigen- after completion of which a job is practically guaran- ous community persons themselves do that recruitment teed? for you. I don't see any other way that you will meaningfully MR. HENRY: That is a difficult thing, because we are involve people that you want, without building this in not now lumping everyone together. Motivation is an building in this outreach recruitment. That is why it is individual thing. Whereas I may be motivated by a important. higher salary, the next guy may be motivated by the type of work he is doing, or the people he is worldng MR. BOOTH: Here are two questions I believe I can with. The vocational training has to offer something answer. How can we get the film that we saw a little first, and that is the basis for having a Jobs Now, OIC, while ago? and everything else.If the school system had offered If you will just write to the Chamber of Commerce of something in the beginning, these jobs would be availa- the United States, we will see to it that it gets into the ble.It is you know, what the schools offer to the young proper hands. person in the way of a job. And vocational training, I The second question is:Will a copy of these papers think that is an easy way out for many of us, in that we be available? The answer is:Yes. feel a person that instead of having higher aspirations The complete PROCEEDINGS of this day-and-a-half to go on to a trade school and learn a trade, should go workshop will be mailed to each person who registered. out and get a job. I want to thank those who were on the program yester- We have to make another change. Most of the tradeday and today for their helpful cooperation and contribu- jobs aren't available to young Negroes, so that there tions to a better understanding of this problem. I am will have to be a number of things that change prior to especially grateful to these gentlemen this morning as any young Negro accepting this as a motivating factor. well. I don't know how you feel, but I feel better about MR. BOOTH: Thank you, Mr. Henry. America's future after I listened to these people.

MR. HOWARD: One nice thing is that all the things that Mr. Henry has mentioned are absolutely neces-

76 APPENDIX

I Some Contributing Factors to Urban Unrest

by priorities to ameliorate social problems andan un- Sol Chaneles, Ph.D. sympathetic attitude on the part of the whitecom- Director, Urban Studies Division munity towards racial equality of opportunity and Simulmatics Corporation racial justice.I view these underlying problems, 16 East 41st Street however, as small building units which formcom- New York, New York 10017 plex configurations of underlyingcauses of urban tensions. Personally, I do not viewany one or com- Using different research techniques,over tho bination of these underlying factorsas directly past year I've learned much about a fairly large contributing to the violence of the pastsummer. number of people in predominantly Negro slum In looking for the proximate or immediatecause neighborhoods in 15 of our largest cities. How they of urban violence I tried to identify significant fac- feel about their living conditions! What their tors which, given a particular triggering incident thoughts are! During this same period I haveex- like the shooting by a policeman of an unarmed amined considerable data concerning many of the teen-ager or the arbitrary and capricious "roughing aspects of life of such people in our 100 largest up" of a group of youngsters permit a single, central cities. These inquiries were conducted be- localized incident to escalate into sustained and fore, during and shortly after the violence which horrifying pitched battles between ordinary black occurred in the summer of 1967. The studieswere citizens and an "army of occupation" requiring the designed to find answers to the followingques- presence and repressive techniques of local and tions: state police, the National Guard, the U. S. Army 1. What were the immediate and underlying and armed white vigilantes. causes of the summer's violence in 1967? Initially, I identified 17 "indicators" for poten- 2. Will violence occur in 1968 and after, andare tial urban violence. The data were sketchy and in- such outbursts likely to be different in char- complete but these indicators seemed somehow to acter from those of last year? combine into a "critical mass" finding expression 3. Finally, can steps be taken now, short of law in an outburst of violence. The kinds of datare- enforcement intervention, to preventnew quired were not officiallyrecorded in govern- outbursts and contribute, at the same time, to mental documents. They hadto be directly bringing about needed changes in the social acquired through lengthy and repeated interviews fabric which will improve the quality of life with ordinary citizens and, on occasion, through for all Americans? informal discussions with informal public officials and business leaders. Newspaper articles, personal I would like first to describe the tentativean- swers we have found to these questions and to ex- and field research staff observations supplemented plain the basis for supporting them. direct interviews. The data are still very imperfect and the state of the art describing and analyzing 1. The Immediate and Underlying Causes of Urban Violence how the indicators combine to form a "critical Most informed Americans are mindful of some of mass" is still primitive and impressionistic. It is my the urban social problems which underlie and con- feeling, however, that very little public attention tribute to prevailing urban tensions and which ex- has been given to urban social phenomena and con- acerbate race relations. Such problems include in- ditions represented by these indicators. adequate housing supply, poor employment op- In the light of more recent observations and portunities, lack of governmental planning encom- analysis, these initial 17 indicators are seen to com- passing adequate representation and active partici- bine into 5 clusters. These are: pation of the poor, failure to sustain communi- Cluster I Predisposition to Commit Violence as a cations between people, government, and business Method for Producing Social ChangeThis cluster leadership, mediocre public protective services in comprises three indicators:First, expressions of poor neighborhoods, poorly conceived spending thewillto commit violent acts. Second, ex-

7i/79 pressions of the will to continueviolence after play a role during the summerof 1967. Small arms, only slightly theintervention of law enforcementcontrol however, are purchased as new or Third, expressions of the will todirect violen used. They are easy to purchaseand are ready to from $10 in areas of against specific targets, such asbuildings ownedby use. Prices, incidentally, range midwest) to slum-lords,businesses owned by neighborhood lax controls (mostly in the south and merchants who purportedly "gouge"slum people, $40 in areas of tight controls(mostly the north businesses with very discriminatoryhiringprac- central and north east sectionsof the country). tices, and people, as well. The suppliers of illegal small arms arewhite adults whose network of distributionreaches into every Lest there be any misunderstanding onthis first city in the land and whose activities are notlimited cluster of indicators, the expressionsof violence solely by Negroes. to the sale of weapons. studied are not those articulated The third indicator in the violencereadiness On the contrary observation showsthat such pre- of released expressed by cluster has to do with the movement dispositions to violence have been misdemeanants and felons, both whiteand Negro both Negroes and whites. It shouldbe noted that, into urban communities. The abysmalfailure of vblence are di- typically, Negro expressions of the nation's prison and correctional system,its un- and stores; rected toward targets like buildi gs anticipatedroleas a training schoolfor more white expressions of violence aredirected toward serious and sophisticated delinquencies andcrime, the Negro population. its failure to train the offender in usefultrades and Cluster II The Existence of Violence Readiness to provide meaningful employment areconditions Factors This cluster comprises three indicators. which are all fairly well known and need noelabo- First, informal training centers have emergedwhere ration here. However, released offenders tend to techniques are taught to sharpshoot, preparediffer- return to areas of the central cityalready tense. ent types of molotov cocktails,commit acts of van- Thus,large numbers of persons, alreadypre- dalism, the storing of ammunition,chains, clubs disposed to react violently to stresses in the com- and surplus army weapons, thepreparation of es- munity, contribute to and heighten existingurban cape routes andmethods for paralyzing the water tensions. supply system. Such tr ining centershave been in existence in major American cities since the turnof Cluster III Expressions of Dissatisfaction with the century and were, until veryrecently, facilities Local GovernmentThis area comprises four indi- made up predominantly of white teenagerswho, in cators. First, statements tothe effect that local organized gangs or other groupings,perpetrated governmentisgenerallycorrupt;specificalle- acts of vandalism againstschools, places of wor- gations that local government cooperatesclosely ship, cemeteries and private homes.These training with the "establishment" the news media and centers, in the past, I should add,served as places business community in preventingcomplete and of recruitment for qualified youngpunks to enter up-to-date public awareness of thegrievances of the world of professional andorganized crime. the Negro community; and assertionsthat local More recently, similar training centersfor violence government makes very little effortto enforce have been created in Negro neighborhoods. local laws and ordinances thuspermitting business- The second indicator which is supportiveof pre- men and landlordsto exploit Negro residents and dispositions to violence is concerned withthe ille- thwart Negro aspirations. Second,expressions of gal movement of small arms intothe central city. skepticism as to the validity andcapability of up- In some cities, the scale of illegalsmall arms sales grading programs such as intensifiededucational has attained such proportions thatreliable inter- projects, urban renewal and jobtraining efforts de- viewees feel that all males, teen-agersand adults, signed to substantially ameliorateconditions in the white and Negro are "armed to theteeth" and pre- slums. Third, widespread rejectionof certain up- half-hearted parefor an "all-out shoot-out". grading programs which are viewed as The illegal sale of small arms is quite adifferent "tokenism", especially of anti-poverty programs, matter from the acquisitionof inoperative Army and of attempts by the businesscommunity to gen- un- 4 4urplus" weapons which require expertattention eratelow-skilled,marginaljobsforthe for reactivation. Such "surplus" weaponsdid not employed, and, fourth, expressionsof general dis-

80 satisfaction about the dismal amount andquality gency, everydaysituations. A trend away from of health services available in poorneighborhoods. favorable to disparaging statementsobviously reveals a mounting of tension. Cluster IV Governmental Institutions as Breed- ing Grounds for Violence This cluster comprises Cluster V Economic Exploitation of the Negro This clus- 2indicators.Thefirstisexpression of dis- Community by the White Underworld satisfaction with the juvenile and family courts.Al- ter comprises 5 factors.There are extensive under- the nation. though the Gault decision (May1967) intended to world operations in every sizable city in ameliorate the "Kangaroo Court" typeof pro- The social history of crime in theUnited States ceedings which characterize most ofthe nation's over the past100 years has shown, in part, a juvenile courts, harsh, unjust andself-defeating general tendency for the dominantcriminal group conditions persist. Heavy calendars,commitment in a city to become respectablethrough the invest- of juveniles to inadequate, overcrowdedand in- ment of criminally acquiredprofits in legitimate criminal humane detentionfacilities andthe apparent enterprise; subsequently, control of their inability of the juvenile court system toadequately operations passes into the hands of others.The marshal the resources necessary to assisttroubled forces in the American pattern of prejudiceand youth and their families combinepowerfully to discrimination which have preventedNegroes from stimulate a motivation to commit violence. Ihave moving into and up in the worlds of real estate, heard many youths describe how,during the first insurance, manufacturing, banking, unionleader- hour of their commitment to a juveniledetention ship, commerce and government arethe same facility, they learn to make three different typesofwhich have prevented members of theNegro fuses for molotv cocktails. For a varietyof reasons underworld from moving from their lowunder- these courts discourage interested citizensfrom world position to supplant the currentcontrollers visiting and observing their parody ofjustice for and brokers of crime. To be sure, Negroes are em- but juveniles.I strongly urge business leaders to visit ployed by criminal groups and organizations these juvenile court and detentionfacilities to only in minor roles. The broad nationalmovement observe how they rapidly transformdeprived, aimed at producing changes inleadership in the legitimite socio-economic structure to accommo- puzzled,frightenedyouths and children into tough, bitterly angry young adults. date Negroes has its counterpart in theunderworld. The second indicator encompassed by theclus- The first factor in this cluster is concerned with histor- ter is concerned with verbalizationsby both whites tensions which are generated in the on-going positions of and Negroes about police-communityrelationships. ical movement of Negro succession to This indicator is probably the weakest of allthose control in the underworld. studied. The feelings of white urban residents a- The remaining factors are specific areasof bout the local police involves a mixtureof con- underworld activity which are, by andlarge, owned tempt for their solicitations offavors and gifts, and operated by white criminals butwhich flourish their petty corruption and their failure to repress in Negro neighborhoods. Oneof these specific the increasing scale and militancy ofNegro aspi- areas of economicexploitation, in the sense that rations. The feelings of the Negro, by contrast,in- the lion's share of the profits moveinto the volve pointed hatred against the proclivityofpockets of the white crime bosses, is thedistri- police to arbitrarily exercise undue force and bru- bution and sale of stolen merchandise. Thesecond tality and a strong feeling that many acts of police is the distribution and saleof drugs. The third is inadequacies are dictated by inept local govern- concerned with white ownership and patronage,of mental political leadership. Negrocriticism which houses of prostitution and alliedcall-girl oper- has the most senskive value as a tensionindicator ations. The fourth is concerned withthe white focuses on complaints that police are told by cor- domination in Negro neighborhoods ofillegal fidu- rupt local officials to overlook violationsof the law ciary operations such as loansharking,gambling perpetrated by white criminals and slum lords.Al- and policy games. legations of complicity between police,the under- By way of summary theseindicators reflect and world and officialdom are balanced byspecific measure anincreasingly aggressive appeal for the citation of police assistance renderedfor emer- redress of long standingunderlying grievances.

81 They clearly show there exists a pervasive climate think there is a very real difference between such of violence in virtually every urban center of the phenomena and the violent events which occurred nation. This climate of violence and the pre- inpreviousyears,usuallyreferredtoas"in- disposition to commit acts of violence is nurtured cidents". By "incident", I refer to a very short- by and in turn feeds the other tension-producing lived outburst of violence which takes place in an behaviors (all these are referred to as "indicators"). extremely limited area and involves, often, many These behaviors result, in part, from continued onlookers but relatively few participants. By "dis- white exploitation of the integrity of the Negro turbance", I refer to an outburst of violence which community through methods which, by their very is sustained over many hours or days, covering a nature, predispose to violence white-dominated fairlylarge geographic area, ultimately involving crim inaloperations,white-dominatedgovern- large numbers of participants who, initially are at- mental corruption, and the persistent failure oftracted to the scene of violence as onlookers and, w hi t e-dominatedameliorativeandprotective then, tend to become participants. A "riot", from activity such as the court system, and community the standpoint of violence, may achieve the level of or urban upgrading programs. either an incident or a disturbance but is differen- The 1967 outbursts of violence, I contend, were tiated from either by a framework of political or fostered primarily by this climate of violence, gen- ideological intent directed at producing changes in erally unrelated to underlying grievances which, the organization of society. The 1967 outbursts of nevertheless served as an outlet after rather banal violence were not rooted in an endeavor to achieve triggering events. White and Negro both expressed stated objectives. By these definitions, the out- predispositions to violence, both provoked and re- bursts of recent years were incidents and dis- taliated as they promised they would. Their state- turbances but not riots. In sharp contrast, ow- ments were credible and they lived up to their pro- experience this year will reveal this added element mises. These statements were made long in advance engagementin violence and destruction to of the eruptions but the warnings were unheeded. realize specific goals. There will be incidents of vio- We have been hearing such warnings articulated lence in virtually every one of the nation's 100 since the eruptions subsided lastFall. We hear largest cities but we may anticipate a smaller num- them every day now. Are the promises of violence ber of disturbances. However, the probability is for 1968 valid? quite high that we shall experience at least 24 poli- I turn now to the second question Will out- tically articulated riots. We may also expect numer- bursts occur in 1968 and will they be different in ous and intensely violent disturbances,triggered by character from those in 1967? Very simply, the both white and Negro provocations. The riots this answer appears to be "yes". There will be out- year may well be triggered both by politically mo- bursts of violence in 1968 and this year's violence tivated white sentiment to suppress and corrode will differ in scope and quality from 1967. thevigor of the Negro movement for socio- Nothing has changed since last year which would economic equality of opportunity and by poli- in any way alter the predisposition to violence tically motivated Negro sentiment to use violent neither in the white community nor in the Negro methods to break through the institutional rigidity community. There is little reason for believing that of local government, local business, and local crime all the military hardware in our domestic arsenals brokerages all of which provide the foundation will have a real impact in lessening the imminencefor white domination and white exploitation of the of renewed violence. No amount of moral oratory Negro. or token gestures aimed at amelioratingracial grie- One of the remarkable consequences of the vances will have substantial impact inlessening the 1967 season of violence was the pressure it ex- simmering potential for explosive eruptions. No a-ercised in forcing rapid political motivation of mount of dialogue or dollars by themselves willfairly large numbers of young Negro men and stem the dismal tide. women. Nearly all of these men and women,in Last summer's outbursts were described by the 1967, shared the American value of inexorable, public,generally,aseither"riots"or"dis- gradual change and the flexibility of American inturbances" terms often used interchangeably. I stitutionsto accommodate change. Their per-

82 ception of what took place all over the country has I am not here talking about solutions concerned encouraged them, virtually overnight, to become with underlying problems and causes. I am con- more politically sophisticated andrealistic. Much cerned at the moment, only with solutions directly of the American value of gradual change, at least addressed to those factors which act as proximate, for black 1-nericans, is seen as illusion and the immediate causes of violence. The measures I sug- techniques of change which appear to be most ap- gest, therefore, are concerned onlywith action propriate are those of proven success the tech- which can be taken to attack the climate of vio- niques employed by local political machines, by lence.It should be borne in mind that any at- local underworld organizations which are often en- tempts at solving the problems ofviolence will meshed in the local political machine, and by the surely have an impact on ways of coping with persuasive power of local business. underlying problems; attempts to solve the vio- The policy of peaceful coexistence betweenrich lence problem will surely have an impact oneither and poor, has overnight, beenrendered null and raising or lowering the threshold of other tensions void; a climate of political astuteness hasbeen gen- not associated with urban unrestand we must ex- erated among Negroes and is beingpublicly expect that as solutions are tried to solve someprob- pressed as a war on "phony liberalism,""official lems other and possibly new problems will arise corruption,""officially protected economic ex- but this is in the nature of things and we must be ploitation of Negroes". The instrument ofthis poli- prepared to deal withit.I now suggest some tical war is violence. violence-reducing measures a partial listing only. The first table indicates those cities in which 1. There is a good deal of potential businessand there is a high probability of riots during 1968. managerialtalentineconomicallydeprived The second table lists those cities in which there is Negro neighborhoods. Currently, much of this a high probability ofdisturbances. All the nation's talentisharnessed by the white controlled 100 largest cities, for which I have attempted to underworld, and white dominated, local political obtain and to develop data during the past several machinery. A continuing effort should bemade, months, including cities where thereis a good independent of the social and personal back- reason for expecting riots ordisturbances, can ex- ground of these "illegal people", to move them pect incidents as well. rapidly into meaningful job opportunities in the By referring to the tables, you will notice that, legal world. in each city described, the clusters of indicators are 2. A concerted effort should be made to break the shown as having "high prevalence", or "low pre- force of the underworld's grip over major seg- valence". Where data are insufficient, no entry is ments of lifein the urban community; the made. Where there is "high prevalence" for 2 or traffic in drugs and arms should be decisively more clustersof indicators, I consider these cities ended. Limited experiments should beunder- as having a highprobabilityfor disturbances. taken to encourage community leadershipand Where there is a "high prevalence" for 2 or more law enforcement chiefs to observe whether po- clusters of indicators and where I have identified lice duties carried on without the carryingof statementslinkingpoliticalintentwithpre- weapons can help reduce tensions. disposition of violence, I have noted a "high pro- 3. The news media should fulfill its longneglected bability" for riots. responsibility of showing, in full detail, the in- I have omitted any description of clusters for tense prejudice and proclivitytowards racial cities with low probability for either riots or dis- discrimination which exists. It should also ex- orderssimplybecausethereisnot enough pose the persistent exploitationof the Negro by information to offer such a characterization. some segments of the white community. I turn now to the final question I raised at the outset of the discussion. Can measures beunder- 4. For over a hundred years we have ignored the taken now, without the intervention of law en- reports of scholars and enlightened citizens that forcement methods, which would preventin- juvenile courts, juvenile delinquency facilities cidents, disturbances or riots and which would pro- and the correctional system have been and are duce social change which would benefit all Amer- totalfailures, serving mainly as schools for icans? training more serious, hardened and violent of-

83 fenders. Such reports should be investigated and, should be broken. A massive campaign involving if found accurate, public action should be taken widespread citizen and business leadership parti- to correct the conditions. cipation should be directed at cleaning up and at improving the sensitivity and responsiveness of 5. The stranglehold of corrupt or ineffectual public local government to problems and needs of all officials over responsiblelocalpublic action the people in the community.

Table 1. Table 2. Cities with High Probabality of Riots, 1968 Cities with High Probability of Inturbances, 1968

Cluster Cluster Cluster Cluster Cluster Cluster Cluster Cluster Cluster Cluster City City I I I III IV V I I I I I IV V San Francisco H L H 0 H Oakland H 0 0 H Bridgeport H H H H H Jersey City H H L H Hartford H H H H H Buffalo H L L H Washington, D. C. H H H L H Columbus H 0 L H Miami H H H H H Birmingham 0 0 L H Tampa H H H H H Phoenix 0 0 H H Chicago H H H H H Tucson 0 0 H H Indianapolis H H H H H Los Angeles H 0 0 H Kansas City H H L 0 H San Diego 0 L 0 H New Orleans H H H H H New Haven H L L 0 Springfield, Mass. H H H H H St. Petersburg 0 0 L H Detroit H H H H H Fort Wayne 0 H 0 H Minneapolis H H L L H Baltimore H 0 0 H Newark H H H H H Boston 0 0 H H Albany H H L H H F lint 0 0 0 H New York City H H H H H Grand Rapids 0 0 0 H Rochester H H H H H Elizabeth 0 H H H Youngstown H H H H H Paterson 0 H H H Philadelphia H H H H H Syracuse 0 0 L H H San Antonio H H H 0 H Akron 0 0 0 H Milwaukee H H H H H Cleveland H 0 0 H Atlanta H H L L H Dayton H 0 0 H Cincinnati H H 0 0 H Toledo H 0 0 H H = High Prevalence of Indicators Erie 0 0 H H L = Low Prevalence of Indicators 0 = Insufficient Dam H = High Prevalence of Indicators L = Low Prevalence of Indicators 0 = Insufficient Data Table 3. Cities with High Probability of Riots, 1968 Table 4. Cities with High Probability of Riots, 1968 Cluster I Factors Factor (1) Factor 121 Factor 131 Cluster II Factors Expression of Will Exprewion of Will Factor 141 Factor 151 Factor MI Ex prewion of Will to Continue to Direct Violence Existence of to Commit Violent Violence After at Specific Informal Violence Illegal Movement Movement of City Acts E nforcement Targets City Training Centers of Arms Released Offenders San Francisco San Francisco Bridgeport Bridgeport Hartford Hartford Washington, D. C. Washington, D. C. Miami Miami Tampa Tampa Chicago Chicago Indianapolis Indianapolis Kansas City 0 Kansas City 0 New Orleans New Orleans Springfield, Mass. Springfield, Mass. Detroit Detroit Minneapolis Minneapolis Newark Newark Albany Albany New York City New York City Rochester Rochester Youngstown 0 Youngstown Philadelphia Philadelphia Pittsburgh Pittsburgh San Antonio 0 San Antonio Milwaukee Milwaukee Atlanta Atlanta Cincinnati Cincinnati

84 Table 5. Table 6. Cities with High Probability of Riots, 1968 Cities with High Probability of Riots, 1968 Cluster III Factors Cluster IV Factors Factor (111 Factor (12) Factor (7) Factor (8) Factor (9) Factor (10) F eel ings about Skepticism Dissatisfaction with Juvenile and Family Police-Community Dissatisfaction Toward Rejection of Dissatisfaction Relations with Local "Upgrading "Upgrading with Local City Courts H City Government Programs" Programs" Health Service San Francisco H H San Francisco H H H 0 Bridgeport H H H Bridgeport H H H H Hartford H Hartford H H H H Washington, D. C. H H Washington, D. C. H H H H Miami H H H Miami H H H H Tampa H Tampa H H H H Chicago H H H Chicago H H H H Indianapolis H Indianapolis H H H H Kansas City H H Kansas CitY L H H H New Orleans H H New Orleans H H H H Springfield, Mass. H H Springfield, Mass. H L L H Detroit H Detroit H H H H Minneapolis H H H Minneapolis L H L H Newark H H Newark H H H H Albany H Albany L H H H New York City H H H New York City H H H H Rochester H H Rochester H H H H Youri,ptown H H Youngstown H H H 0 Philadelphia H H Philadelphia H H H H Pittsburgh H H Pittsburgh H H H L San Antonio H H San ArConio L H H H Milwaukee H H H Mil maukee H H H H Atlanta H Atlanta H H H H Cincinnati H Cincinnati H H H H Table 7. Table 8. Cities with High Probability of Riots, 1968 Cities with High Probability of Disturbances, 1968 Cluster V Factors Cluster I Factors

Factor (13)Factor (14)Factor (15)Factor (16)Factor (17) Factor (1) Factor (2) Factor (3) Tensions White Expression of Will Expression of Will Produced White Control Expression of Will to continue to Direct Violence by White Movement Control Loan- to Commit Violent Violence After at Specific Underworld of Stolen Movement of Pros- Sharking, City Acts Enforcement Targets City Domination Goods of Drugs titution Gambling Oakland H L L San Francisco H H H H H Jersey City H L L Bridgeport H H H H H Buffalo H L L Hartford H H H H H Columbus H H H Washington, D. C. H H H H H Birmingham H H H Miami H H H H H Phoenix H H H Tampa H H L H H Tucson H H H Chicago H H H H H Los Angeles H H H Indianapolis H L H H H San Diego H H H Kansas City H L L H H New Haven H H L New Orleans H H H H H St. Petersburg H H L Springfield, Mass. H L L H H Fort Wayne H L L Detroit H H H H H Baltimore H H H Minneapolis H H L H H Boston H H H Newark H H H H H Flint H H H Albany H H H H H Grand Rapids H L L New York City H H H H H Elizabeth H L L Rochester H H H H H Paterson H H H Youngstown H L L H H Syracuse H H H Philadelphia H H H H H Akron H H H H Pittsburgh H H H H H Cleveland H H San Antonio H L o H H Dayton H H H H Milwaukee H H L H H Toledo H H Atlanta H H H H H Erie H H H Cincinnati H H H H H

85 Table 9. Table 10. Cities with High Probability of Disturbances, 1968 Cities with High Probability of Disturbances, 1968 Cluster II Factors Cluster III Factors Factor (4) Factor (5) Factor (6) Factor (7) Factor (8) Factor (9) Factor (10) Existence of Skepticism Informal Violence Illegal Movement Movement of Dissatisfaction Toward Rejection of Dissatisfaction City Training Centers of Arms Released Offenders with Local "Upgrading "Upgrading with Local Oakland 0 0 0 City Government Programs" Programs" Health Service Jersey City H H H Oakland H 0 0 H Buffalo H H H Jersey City H H H H Columbus H H H Buffalo H H H H Birmingham 0 H H Columbus H H H H Phoenix H H L Birmingham H H H H Tucson H H L Phoenix H L L 0 Los Angeles H H H Tucson H L L 0 San Diego H H H Los Angeles H H H L New Haven H H H San Diego H L L L St. Petersburg L L L New Haven L H H L Fort Wayne H H 0 St. Petersburg H H H H Baltimore H H H Fort Wayne L L L L Boston H H H Baltimore H H H Li F lint H H 0 Boston H H H H Grand Rapids 0 H 0 Flint H H H L Elizabeth H H H Grand Rapids H L L L Paterson H H H Elizabeth H H H L Syracuse H H H Paterson H H H L Akron H H H Syracuse H H H o Cleveland H H H Akron H H H 0 Dayton H H H Cleveland H H H L Toledo H H H Dayton H H H L Erie H H H Toledo H H H L Erie H H H H Table 11. Table 12. Cities with High Probability of Disturbances, 1968 Cities with High Probability of Disturbances, 1968 Cluster IV Factors Cluster V Factors Factor (11) Factor (12) Factor 113iFactor (14)Factor (15)Factor (16)Factor (17) Dissatisfaction with Feelings about Tensions Juvenile and Family Police-Community Produced White White City Courts Relations by White Movement Control Control Oakland 0 H Underworld of Stolen Movement of Pros- Loansharking Jersey City H H City Domination Goods of Drugs titution Gambling Buffalo H H Oakland H 0 0 0 H Columbus H H Jersey City H H H H H Birmingham H H Buffalo H H H H H Phoenix H H Columbus H 0 0 0 H Tucson H H Birmingham H 0 0 0 0 Los Angeles H H Phoenix H 0 0 0 H San Diego H H Tucson H 0 0 0 H New Haven H H Los Angeles H H H H H St. Petersburg H H San Diego H H H H H Fort Wayne L H New Haven H H H H H Baltimore H H St. Petersburg H H H H H Boston H H Fort Wayne 0 0 0 0 0 Flint H 0 Baltimore H H H H H Grand Rapids 0 0 Boston H H H H H Elizabeth H H Flint 0 0 0 0 0 Paterson H H Grand Rapids 0 0 0 0 0 Syracuse H H Elizabeth H H H H H H Akron H H Paterson H H H H Cleveland H H Syracuse H H H H H Dayton H H Akron H 0 0 0 0 Toledo H H Cleveland H 0 0 0 0 Erie H H Dayton H 0 0 0 0 Toledo 0 0 0 0 0 Erie H H H H H

86 0,77,

Table 14. Table 13. Urban Unrest Indicators, NoProbability Statement Urban Unrest Indicators Present,No Probability Statement Cluster II Factors Cluster I Factors Factor (4) Factor (3) Factor (1) Factor i2f Existence of Factor (5) Factor (6) Expression of Will Expression of Will Expression of Will Informal Violence Illegal Movement Movement of To Direct Violence to Commit Violent to Continue Violence Training Centers of Arms Released Offenders At Specific Targets City City Acts After Enforcement H o Mobile H H H H 0 Mobile Montgomery H H H H H 0 Montgomery Fresno H H 0 o 0 0 Fresno Long Beach H H 0 o 0 0 Long Beach Sacramento H H 0 0 0 0 Sacramento San Jose 0 0 0 0 0 0 San Jose Denver 0 H L 0 Denver L H H 0 H Jacksonville H H L 0 Jacksonville Savannah L H H H 0 Savannah Rockford H L L L L 0 Rockford Evansville H L L 0 Evansville H H H 0 H Gary Gary H H 0 0 0 0 o South Bend South Bend 0 H H 0 H St. Paul St. Paul H H 0 0 o Charlotte 0 Charlotte H L L 0 0 o Oklahoma City L Oklahoma City H L L 0 L Dallas Dallas L L L 0 Houston L L L L 0 Houston Richmond L L H H H Richmond H H 0 H Seattle Seattle H H 0 0 o Madison 0 Madison 0 0

Table 16. Table 15. Urban Unrest In( '!cators, NoProbability Statement Urban Unrest Indicators, NoProbability Statement Cluster IV Factors Cluster III Factors Factor (11) Factor (12) Factor (9) Factor (10) Factor (7) Factor (8) Dissatisfaction with Skepticism Juvenile and Family Feelings about Police- Dissatisfaction Toward Rejection of Dissatisfaction Community Relations with Local City Courts with Loval "Upgrading "Upgrading 0 Health Service Mobile H City Government Fmgrams" Programs" 0 0 H Montgomery H Mobile H 0 0 0 H Fresno H Montgomery H 0 0 0 0 Long Beach 0 Fresno H 0 0 0 0 0 Sacramento 0 Long Beach H 0 0 0 0 0 San Jose Sacramento H 0 0 0 0 0 Denver San Jose H 0 0 L Jacksonville H Denver H 0 0 0 H Savannah H Jacksonville H 0 0 0 H Rockford H Savannah H 0 0 0 H Evansville H Rockford H 0 0 0 H Gary H Evansville H 0 0 0 H South Bend 0 Gary H 0 St. Paul H 0 H 0 0 L South Bend H 0 0 H Charlotte St. Paul H 0 0 0 H Oklahoma City H Charlotte H 0 0 H Houston H Oklahoma City H 0 0 0 L Richmond H H 0 0 Houston H 0 H Seattle H 0 0 Richmond H 0 0 H Madison Seattle H 0 0 H Madison H 0

87 Table 17. Urban Unrest Indicators,No Probability Statement Cluster V Factors

Factor (13)Factor (14)Factor (15)Factor (16)Factor (17) White Tensions Produced White Control by White Movement Control Loan- Underworld of Stolen Movement of Pros- Sharking, Gambling City Domination Goods of Drugs titution 0 0 Mobile 0 0 0 0 0 Montgomery 0 0 0 0 0 Fresno 0 0 0 0 0 Long Beach 0 0 0 0 0 0 Sacramento 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 San Jose 0 0 Denver 0 0 0 0 0 Jacksonville 0 0 0 0 0 0 Savannah 0 0 0 0 0 Rockford 0 0 0 0 Evansville 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 Gary 0 0 South Bend 0 0 0 0 0 St. Paul 0 0 0 0 0 Charlotte 0 0 0 0 0 Oklahoma City 0 0 0 0 0 Houston 0 0 0 0 0 0 Richmond 0 0 0 0 0 Seattle 0 0 0 0 0 Madison 0 0

88 Appendix B

This section describes the research methods used to local law enforcement agents, employees of local develop data concerning the "indicator" clusters "up-grading" programs, newspaper reporters and referred to in the paper. "street people" (persons earning a livelihood from It should be noted that since the factors de- illegal activity). In addition, newspaper stories were scribed have been generally overlooked in official analyzed for relevant information, hundreds of statistics-gathering operations, the information is telephone calls were made to persons living in cities sketchy, offering no opportunity for inter-city in which no direct interviews were conducted and comparative analysis and resisthig expression in supplementary sensitizing data were developed terms of rates, precise quantitative measures and from both published and unpublished reports of indices. The method used relied heavily on inter- several Federal and numerous local public agencies. views with both Negro and white young male Following is an identification, for each Cluster adults, aged 16-30, living in or adjacent to ghetto of "Indicators" of the principal methods used to neighborhoods. Over 800 interviews were with develop data.

Cluster IPredisposition to Commit Violence as a Method for Producing Social Change

Indicator Methodology (1) Expression of will to commit violent acts Primary Interviews, (civilians) (2) Expression of will to continue violence after Secondary Newspaper stories the intervention of law enforcement controls Primary Interviews, (civilians) (3) Expression of will to direct violence Secondary Newspaper stories against specific targets Interviews (civilians) Cluster IIExistence of Violence Readiness Factors

Indicator Methodology (4) Violence Training Centers Interviews(Civilians) (5) Illegal Movement of Small Arms Interviews (Civilians, Police) (6) Movement of released offenders Prirthiry Interviews (Civilians) SecondaryLaw Enforcement Agents, Official reports. Cluster IIIExpressions of Dissatisfaction with Local Government

Indicator Methodology (7) Allegations of Official Corruption Primary Interviews (Civilians) SecondaryNewspaper stories Published "Hearings", Unpublished Official Reports (8) Skepticism towards up-grading programs Primary Interviews (Civilians) SecondaryNewspaper stories Published "Hearings", Unpublished Official Reports. (9) Rejection of up-grading programs Interviews(Civilians, program personnel) (10) Dissatisfaction about Health Services Inferences from Published Reports

tau., Cluster IV Government Institutions as Breeding Grounds forViolence

(I I) Dissatisfaction with Juvenile and Primary Interviews (Civilians) Secondary Published Public Reports Family Court (12) Police Community Relations Interviews (Civilians, Police) Cluster V Economic Exploitation of the Negro Communityby the White Underworld

(13) Negro Succession to Underworld Leadership Primary Interviews Secondary Published Public Reports, Newspaper stories (14-17) Profit taking by white crime bosses, Interviews distribution and sale of drugs, white ownership and patronage of houses of prostitution, white domination of illegal fiduciary operations.

After the interview data and related materials were 1967 disorders or were then involved in on-going gathered and codified, the task of analysisinvolved studies to further confirm and clarify our own subjectivecorrelations with general informationfindings. about the disorders which occurred in 1967. In The current "state of the art" involving the addition, reports prepared by social scientists whoformulation of precise statements about urban studied selected aspects of the 1967 disorders weretensions and the proximate causes of riots, dis- analysed with a view towards "fitting" the dataorders and incidents, requires reliance on and the developed for the preparation of this paper withuse of qualitative measures and a method ofanaly- the independent research findings of others. Final-sis and synthesis which is, notwithstanding intense ly, numerous discussions took place between theexposure to the realities being studied,highly sub- author of the paper and other social scientists whojective. had either completed research on aspects of the

90 YOU CAN'T SEE THESTARS THROUGH THESTRIPES by Saul D. Alinsky

America's urban crisis is primarily anumbilical lowing this we militantly andself-righteously pro- crisis. We concede theunprecedented, sweeping, claim our determination forbold, prompt, massive shattering changes of the times.Comparison with action which always turns outto be bumbling, The rolls of the changes of the past wouldbe like that of the procrastinating, minuscule gestures. what they were Bomb and its pre-atomicantecedents. There is no unemployment in Watts are just comparison. There has been nogradual natural before the blow-up of1965. Nothing of signifi- birth into this generation.We have been ripped cance has changedin Newark. Chicago's WestSide from the womb of the past.We know, we see, we rioted in 1966 and got threeportable swimming hear, we talk about thiswhole changed and ever- pools.Later citywide demonstrationsled to a changing world but we will not cutthe cord of our so-called Chicago SummerConference with the past and go out tolive in the present. The past appointment of a blue ribboncommission, which though dead has the securityof familiarity and so then like all blue ribboncommissions gave birth we move asZombies. We are a sceneof frenetic to a blue baby; it hasdone nothing. And so one fears, confusion and madness.Scared New World. can tick offthe American urban scenes ofviolence Our urban crisis ismany-problemed. From mul- and the record reads the same. don't want tiple over-lapping localauthorities, residuals of the I suggest that we who live in the past past, to the flightof whites and industry away a confrontationwith the present. I believethat from the city, to themassive move-ins of low- white Americans welcomed theviolence of 1967, income newcomers bothwhite and non-white, to and under the surfacereactions of horror and the huge increase in theblack population of Amer- shock was very deep relief. Nowthey were back in ica's major cities, with all itsattendant issues in the thefamiliar jungle of the past. Nowthe con- schools, housing, jobs andpolitical patterns of frontation was in the terms they hadunderstood today and the sweeping outfrom under the rug of and in accord with theirprejudices. Now they because they think the dirt of discriminationand the birth of a new could have a confrontation cliche in the Americanlanguage, "the long hot they know the answer to violenceand that is force, developed a series of and furthermore, knowingthis, they want to do it. summer". Similarly, we have of 1968 be other cliches including theword "confrontation". Ibelieve that should the summer "confrontation" on this or devoid of violence that it would come as anactual We are always having a whites who in their that or avoiding a"confrontation". In fact we have massive frustration to many rarely engaged in aconfrontation with the issue own ways woulddesperately attempt to goad and unless we have beendriven to a point of no incite violence in the ghettoes. avoidance. Such a situation cameabout with the The issue to which this meetingaddresses itself wide-spread violence oflast summer when we is the race facet of thatcomplex which we call the void of leadership confrontedit with force, but eventhen con- urban crisis and specifically the frontation came not from theauthorities but from in the ghettoes. citizen the black ghettoes whoconfronted us with mass Our most populous citieshave little violence. Our confrontation wasthe unavoidable participation, little effective localdemocracy, and reaction to their action. the individual has little, if any,degree of individual Our present impasse islargely due to our refusal self-determination. to confront the issuebecause of two reasons:first, The plight of our cities' people,and it is indeed because we don't knowwhat to do about it and a plight, ismade worse by a network of"citizen" second, if we do know , wedon't want to do it. We committees, "Health and WelfareCouncils," "Pov- shun facing up to theissue by implying atired erty Program Committees,"and other blue ribbon series of gambits inthe form of conferences,citizen packages that claim torepresent people commissions for study, surveys orinvestigations who have given them no mandate,and as often as appointed by the President, orGovernor, or Mayor not are ignorant that others arespeaking in their all of whom knowingfull well in advance the name. inevitable findings ofwhat everyone knows.Fol- Without questioning the undoubtedintegity of

91 those involved, I believe great harm has been done tom" to make itself felt has permittedcity-wide to the city and its people by these tiny organi- institutions and major interestgroups, be they zations of professionals from private and govern- welfare, economic, religious, serviceor fraternal, to ment agencies who combine with an occasional arrogatethe power of speaking for individuals other non-resident to be spokesmen for hundreds without any challengeor objection. With urban of thousands of people throughout the city. By the society'sskyscraper-like city-wide organizations unchallenged presence of these small groups the and agencies, the disappearance ofan articulate impression is given that the population is being and active mass base has in effectinsulated the democratically represented. No number of "citizen heads of these organizations from theirbodies. committees," "Health and Welfare Councils"or In the local community theindividual citizen other devices can successfully play stand-in for the generally reacts to this situation bynot reacting. realthing.Committees and suchcivicmani- Caught in circumstances which makehim feel a festations are not democratic by virtue of ritual. lack of identification asan individual, which give Misinformed as to the true state of affairs, him a numbing sense ofnot belonging, and a people honestly searching for ways of allaying the feeling that no one reallycares for him, he re- cities' multiplying woes turn to mechanical solu- sponds by not caring. In thecourse of my work I tions. Mechanical solutions will not do the job. The have talked to people in just aboutevery kind of truth is that when the people of a great city find American community, and nowhereis the old the avenues of self-expression cut off, the results slogan "You can't fight city hall," utteredwith as are that the political, economic and social channels much conviction. Our cities have socialskyscrapers clog up and back-fire. It is highly undemocratic to to match New York's Empire State Building,or plan, govern, arrange and impose programs without Chicago's John Hancock Building,or Boston's Pru- communication with the people for whom they are dential and so on, but in all these andother cities designed; it is also disastrously impractical. we find their social skyscrapers are defective. There Other cities are rapidly emulating New York's are no elevators running from bottom to top. unique and gigantic welfare industry. A more than Even when a person may havea sudden desire to four hundred page book is need merely to list take a hand, he lacks the instrument bymeans of that city's social and welfare agencies. The welfare which he can translate his desire into activepartici- establishment has mushroomed to where itmust pation. And so the local citizen sinks furtherinto now be classified as one of urban America's major apathy, anonymity and de-personalization.The industries. So many thousands of people and end his complete dependenceon public author- millions of dollars may be an incalculableasset, but ity and a state of civic-sclerosis. may also pose a singular problem, if the industry This deterioration of the role of theperson pursues a course that is either irrelevant or in becomes the major negative element inthe future contradiction to the wishes and demands of the of city life. It is a moot questionas to how far city people. government can advance without the activeco- With the current povertyprogram and other operation and participation of itsrank and file federal operations, public fundsare used to supple- citizenry. It will bean evil omen for the demo- ment and support many "private" agencies' bud- cratic process if local citizens surrendertheir daily gets. The practice blurs the line between the public and active job of running their society.I do not and private domain. Those ofus committed to believe that democracycan survive except as a volunteerism as a basic concept in democracyare formality if the ordinary citizen'spart is limited to seriously concerned at the implications involvedin voting, and if he is incapable of initiativeor all this arrangement. possibility of influencing the political,social and The common concern thata community agency economic structures surrounding him.This issue is assumes the right to speak for the ghetto or any atthe center of the future ofdemocracy in community is a present and recurrent danger in America. many parts of every city. The break-down of citizen activityat the local Our cities lack citizen participation or organi-level has fostereda phenomenon foreign to the zation on the local level. The failure of the "bot-American scene. The concentration andcentra-

92 lization of power, authority andoffice in the hands pushing, hauling, dealing andtemporary compro- of a few has reached anunprecedented highwater mises before the processbegins to repeat in what is mark in city, state and nationalgovernment. the perpetual process of pressureof the democratic I am fully aware of thedangers of a parochial way. Withoutthis kind of representation thedemo- and isolationist mentality.I have seen too manycratic process comes to ahalt. This is the demo- examples of communitychauvinists, of jingoisticcratic gap of today. Where arethe leaders of the local groups doing thingswithout consulting the black ghetto who trulybear the credentials to common good. I am painfullycognizant that represent theircommunities? Suppose that white moderncityproblemsrequireintricatelyco- Let me put it another way. ordinated planning if they are tobe solved. I know society, the establishment, thestatus quo, the too that meeting ourcity problems satisfactorily power structure or anyother name you wish to put sacrifices for the general well-being. on it, awoke onemorning after experiencing a means certain "Everything we have Bearing this in mind I neverthelessrecaii Alexis divine revelation and said, non-white fellow de Tocqueville's observationthat in the last anal-done in the past as far as our been hypocritical, Un- ysis democracy is preservedand strengthened by citizens are concerned has has violated the moral maintaining differences andvariations. When, as is moral, un-democratic and happening in our cities,all strong, local vestedprecepts of Judaic-Christianity. We have behaved regarded our interests are obliterated, whenthese differences are as a superiorracist colonial power and removed, then I too see what deTocqueville saw as black ghettoes as coloniesof primitive inferior the major peril to ourdemocracy, an egalitarian natives. We have arbitrarilyimposed upon them have the forms ofour ideas of programsto 'civilize' them. Wehave society, that may look and of democracy, but is its very opposite. sent down our colonialagents in the form This lack of citizen participationand workingsettlement house workers,delinquency workers together on local levels hasresulted in walls of(on the street, over or underthe streets), recreation isolation and secular barriers between manyof the workers, health, education,religious and other organizations in the local community.These walls varieties. extend upwards in socialsky-scrapers through the "We have bought out thosewhose intelligence life of the city so that thedifferent institutions are and aggressiveness mighthave meant trouble. This separated to a degree ominousfor a democratic welfare colonialism policyhelped to assuage our that we were honest, future. guilts so we could say at once The issue we face is not justwhat is to be done, moral and democraticwhile being dishonest, im- but how it is done. The situationhere and world- moral and anti-democratic.Futhermore, ours has wide is far too sophisticated toattempt to con- been a zoo-keeper mentalityof keeping the animals maintaining law and tinue the old practices, whichI branded years ago quiet or what sounds nicer, colonialism." They cannot be paraded order. We have not onlyshafted the blacks but as "welfare good and that under the disguise of democratictrappings simply insisted that it was for their own by admitting black-skinnedrepresentatives who they like it too!" more often representlittle but themselves, to the Now we have experienced the incredibledivine privy councils. The substitutionof present Uncle revelation and within the hour (beforeits effects Talk-Toughs for past Uncle Tomswill be meaning- wear off) we say,"We have been wrong! From now less as long as the former represents no moretoday on we will accept ournon-white neighbors as full than the latter did in the past. equals possessed of every right,opportunity and with us as The void of leadership in theblack ghetto or freedom enjoyed by whites. They will sit the gilded equals at the decision-making tablerepresenting similarly in the white ghettoes, or turned to ghettoes of the middle class, inshort, of thetheir people." Then the establishment general American scene, is ominousfor the demo-the black ghettoes and said, "Send us your repre- func- sentatives." Who would come forth? Who repre- cratic future. The democratic process cannot practically none of tion lacking the essential prime mixof legitimate, sents these people? Certainly those whom white society is now consortingwith bona fide representatives to meetaccredited representatives of other sectors ofsociety in the and also financing. There we see whyit becomes so

93 terribly important that the ghettoes be organized. degenerate from a proud legitimate slogan and Organizationisnot onlyfor the purpose of threat to a joke. power,* but unless a people have organized so that When I say organization I mean the kind which their membership roster is open for public inspec- can be recognized by the facts that: tion, have met in convention, agreed upon policy, (a) It is rooted in the local tradition, the local indige- programs, constitution and electedofficers, you do nous leadership, the local organizations and agencies, not have that necessary combination of circum- and, in short, the local people. stances from which legitimate, bona fide,ac- (b) Its energy or driving forceis generated by the credited representation can be either selected or self-interest of the local residents for the welfare of elected. In Rochester, New York today Eastman their children and themselves. Kodak is sensitively aware that the representatives (c) Its program for action develops hand in hand with of FIGHT are more representative of the Rochester the organization of the community council. The black ghetto than any other group. In this kind of program isin actual fact that series of common situation the elements of the democratic process agreements which results in the development of the are present but across the nationthe mass of our local organization. ghettoes are appallingly void of those combinations (d) Itis a program arising out of the local people, or organizations which can give birth tolegitimate carrying with it the direct participation of practically representation. all the organizations in a particular area. It involves a substantial degree of individual citizen participation; Certainly itis not in many of those whose a constant day to day flow of volunteer activities vocabulary and mentality is restricted to two two- and the daily functioning of numerous local com- word sentences, "Black Power" and "Get Whitey." mittees charged with specific short-term functions. With nine out of ten of them one need not even (e) It constantly emphasizes the functional relationship bring to bear the old time, always germane tale of between problems and therefore its program is as the Emperor's clothes. Many of them have a broad as the social horizon of the community. It minute organized following if it is large enough to avoids, atallcosts, circumscribed and segmental deserve the adjective of "minute". This fact, how- programs which in turn would attract the support of ever, should not be confused with the tremendous only a segment of the local population. emotional empathy through the country's ghettoes (0 It recognizes that a democratic society is one which of hate and bitterness against white society for the responds to popular pressures, and therefore realisti- gross injustices inflicted upon the blacks. Permit cally operates on the basis of pressure. For the same me to not digress but to emphasize this point. We reason it does not shy away from involvement in dare to talk about the violence of the riots which matters controversy. mainly concern property when for these hundreds (g)It concentrates on the utilization of indigenous of years we have daily, hourly visited upon them individuals, who, if not leaders at the beginning, can violence against human spirit,degradation and be developed into leaders. denial reminiscent of what we used to think of as (h) It gives priority to the significance of self-interest. Chinese torture. What makes it even worse is our The organization itself proceeds on the idea of inordinate hypocrisy in posing as protagonists of channeling the many diverse forces of self-interest freedom, equality and fraternity whilst we de- within the community into a common direction for nounce totalitarian racist butchers. It is a sham, the common good and at the same time respects the hypocrisy and our phony self-righteousness which autonomy of individuals and organizations. makes us grotesque beyond the nightmare. (i)It becomes completely self-financed at the end of The danger of black power is that there may be approximately three years. This not only testifies to no black power. This nation desperately needs its representative character in that the local residents organized power of our black sector and its repre- support their own organization financially, but in- sentatives in our body politic. I am gravely con- sures to the local council the acid test of indepen- dence: "the ability to pay one's way." cerned that those who talk black power will not do more than talk, will not engage in the arduous Our cities will not always be a French pastry tedious job of organization. If this happens the tray to be picked over by "a higher social class". It term black power will in the months to come may seem a bit removed now, but our fellow *Webster's Unabridged definition of power: "The ability to act."

94 camefrom, we don'tknow live in decenthouses, send theirforgotten where we citizens will yet where we are, and wefear where we maybe going. children to goodschools, eat well,live in pleasant adventure of the ghetto jails,Afraid we turn fromthe glorious surroundings, beliberated from their of an illusionary make their own pursuit of happinessto a pursuit and, above allrule themselves, security in a stratified,ordered stripedsociety. Our decisions and cutthe patterns fortheir own des- the world bythe always, by the way oflifeis symbolized to tinies. But thiswill only be done, as force. At home wehave made a represented bystripes of military organized effortsof the people mockery of themorality of being ourbrother's those whom theyhave chosen. It is a time of reached out tokeeper by beinghis jail keeper. The great Americandream which Americans can nolonger see the stars been lost to thestripes. We have tragedy when the stars has through stripes.

95 LEADERSHIP THROUGH GHETTO SELF-HELP by Alvin W. Bush

We founded the People's Community Civic League in 1956 and incorporated it in 1957. The original League was formed long before any trouble flared up. To raise money, we had what we called contests in the neighborhoods. By selling barbeques we raised money to send kids who had good marks to summer camps and those with poor marks to summer school.

That was how we started the League.

As an ex-constable in the county of Wayne, I saw that there were many needy families, and remember the problems that I ran into. Among the neediest families, frequently only $5 to $10 would have kept them in their homes instead of being evicted.

We always found the money we needed in the People's Community Civic League among the Negroes themselves. We were able to get the money and to say to a family here's $20 or $40, and to pay whatever was necessary to keep them where they were so they didn't get evicted.

At one time we had a basket program to buy whatever was necessary for the poor. We had decided that the basket program was a good program so long as it wasn't abused.

At one point, I myself, delivered baskets. On one occasion, just before Christmas, I carried a basket up the back stairs in a dwelling and found a man sitting there half drunk who said "Hey fella. Set it there. I'm not going to get up."

I decided then that the basket program was not the answer to the problems in the community. I became convinced that individual attention should be given to people instead of giving them something for nothing. That we have to involve the poor themelves in order to get them tohelp themselves, just as the bird builds the nest to help their little ones. This is the thing, I believe, that the people in the ghetto must be taught.

So in 1957, 1958 and 1959, we switched and bagan doing a tremendous job in placing people in jobs. I approached the Silvercup Bread Company in the City of Detroit, for example, without any demonstration and to my knowledge the first Negro truck driver-salesman was hired in Detroit in 1961.

In 1958, we had the first Negro page boy in the State Legislature in Lansing. It was through our efforts that a poor boy got a chance to go to school as well as be a page boy in Lansing. We got the appointment of the first Negro to work as a secretary in the House of Representatives in Lansing.

So we were on our way, not through pressure, and not through demonstrations. This is the reason our organization, the People's Civic League got big.

96 But then it lapsed andI'll tell you why it lapsed.

We had a headquarters atCharlevoix and Parker. We had $3,000 in the Veterans treasury and everybodywanted to be president. I found myself in the By the time I Hospital for a time. Meahwhile, the League elected a newpresident. The leadership must did not measureup. came out,the League's money was spent. We This is why, we again beganmarching toward progress inAmericanism. help us, to provide wanted the white businesscommunity to sit in with us, to the dollars, to teach us how tospend them wisely and how todo the things, admin- istratively.

Not only that, we wanted tobe taught as Americans,with the same emphasis And we are not interestedin just we are trying toteach others across theworld. Negroes only, we are interestedin all the poor whites,Mexicans, Spanish-speaking peoples -- anybody.

Because we believe the answerto the whole questionof the Ghetto is that white and black -- thePeople' Community men must learnhow to work together -- Civic League set out in1963, to get the businesscommunity interested. We felt that We thought the whitesneeded to be told how tohelp us. they would help if theyonly knew how, and we wereright. and white -- can accomplish We believe that thetotal community -- black that has been talked about todate. more togetherthan in any other way that we had to go We learned through thePeople's Community Civic League technical knowhow, the financesand into the white communitybecause it had all the successful those who were willing tolisten to us. They did listen, and we were which has a Board of Trustees, in establishing theCareer Development Center, black and white. by Note: (The Career Developnent Centeris a training center financed Mr. mostly white businessmen totrain Negroes so they canbecome self supporting. Bush is President ofthis Center.)

This is what we did. We took the lapsed charterof the People's Community brought the League back Civic League nd with just$2.58 in cash, Mts. Kraft and I to life. and Note: (Mrs. Irma Kraft is secretary ofthe Career Development Center She also also Executive Vice Presidentof the People's CommunityCivic League. is a Negro.)

We had just 100 people leftin the League. But we put together a combination of two things --self determination, with Godand trust, and a which didn't know combination of the white communitythat was willing to help, but how to help until weapproached them.

Many people go out rabble-rousingand with chips on theirshoulders. They We believe and believe in tearing down. We don't believe in thatkind of thing. To give know that white people willhelp you if you are willing tohelp yourself. you anexample. When we had only about$32 in the treasury, we approached

97 Mr. Henry Ford, II, his attorney that is,and explained to him what we were trying to do.

From this, Mr. Ford gave ua a $5,000 check. Of course, he didn't know how we were going to put it to work. We could have used the moneyfor expenses or otherwise, but wedidn't do it that way.

We used his $5,000 to get into the building where we are nowand where the Career Development Center is located.We agreed to buy the building from UAW Local No. 157 at a cost of $25,000 cash. In January, 1963, we agreed to give the Local $5,000 down, $5,000 more on February 1 and$5,000 more on April 1 and then pay off the balance within a year.

When April 1 approached, we found ourselves without money, the fuelbill was running $340 a month, plus lightbills and telephone bills. Each member of the League was picking up a piece of it but couldn't pick up allthat was due.

At that time, we had only 100 members, all Negroes.But all were people who felt that the only way to do this job against poverty is todo something for themselves. So an appeal was made to them saying that we had to meet a$5,000 installment on the building, we needed insurance and we had to pay thefuel bill.

I suggested that they should borrow money from the finance company,the credit union, from the banks, get the money out of the shoe boxes, todo whatever we had to do, but we must havethat money.Within three or four days we had $7,000, more than enough to meet the installment and pay the insurance.

We then took another look at the picture and realized that we had tohave the building renovated if it was ever to serve as a school to teachother Negroes the skills that would put them to work.

So we went to the white community, to various associations, like the Greater Detroit Board of Commerce, the National Association ofManufacturers and other associations, and told them this is what we mean what we need.We need help and support from the white community, money and technical help, too, to develop the type of school and training programs we want and that we didn't want any government money attached.We told them that the people wanted to help themselves and that they needed the white community to help them to do the job.

We told the leaders of the white community that federal fundswould only frustrate our people.We said, suppose we got a big government grant. How can 100 people with no experience handle hundreds of thousands of dollars of government money?Why!We didn't know how:

We also said that if a person is doing something for himself, the image he casts among others is much different than that of the fellow who reaches for handouts.We said that we preferred the fishing pole rather than having a fish given to us every day.We'd rather have the pole, because if you are willing, you can go and catch your own fish. You don't need someone to hand you a fish.

We believed in the American concept from the beginning, that the black people of the community from the beginning must learn that the only answer to their problem is by working with the white community, which has the technical knowhow. It is not the idea of anybody dominating anybody but to share the American dream together as we have always wanted to even though we have our problems. 98 bankers, utility people, Our dream was thatwith a combination of lot of other companies, we automobile people together,like the Big Three, and a of government could do the job ofhelping the poor muchbetter because our form whether he was discriminated has been based on theidea of everybody taking part dream it would against or not. If everybody took partin the great American make America work. hairdos and the ideas of I don't believe indraft card burning, way out because of black power. every other finkwho is coming on the scene It's to green We say that the only answerto black power is greenpower. And by green power I mean power, that'swhere the Negro should goin America. black community to the extent money money from thewhite community and the they are able. should get into the Let's digress a minuteand discuss how the Negro is that once we are main stream. Our dream and conceptin the Negro community downtown or go into the able to buy a buildingdowntown or lease buildings mix with every mainstream of business,that will be it. We want to be able to stores.We don't want American.We don't want to bedown in a ghetto in ghetto community is isolated. to be in a storethat is isolated as the other street. We want every American towalk down Woodward Avenue or any last summer's Because there are noblack dollars down on12th Street (the scene of to get worst riot) and noblack dollars on Linwoodand I'm not even going to try into one.

I want to get intowhere the American dollars arefloating everywhere. separation and black statesis wrong. I think anyone whois talking about black have no dreams of going tothe Congo. I don't know anythingabout the Congo, and I Louisiana, although I've been I was born in Louisianaand I'm happy about of the places that has discriminated against there. But Louisiana has been one How to fight for been a challenge to mebecause it taught me how tofight back. Sure! the things that I want inAmerica! We were deprived.We were denied. But this didn't mean youcouldn't move forward. learned a lot from my daddy As a youngster in theCity of New Orleans, I what to do, he told youwhat to who was the head of thehouse. He didn't ask you have the man-control toteach do. Today, we don't have themale image, we don't kids the man image of theAmerican dream. This is not the American Some Negroes say Give me a separate state. Open occupancy I think that the Negroshould be able to liveanywhere. way. right back in the for me is not whatI'm looking for. I'm looking for houses renovated to give ownership,back to white and Negro Ghetto that could be doing communities together with thebacking of white money,and the white community this, we could make equity themselves. Pushed into a program like some sweat they'll have the slums more liveablebecause they'll have doorsin their houses, windows, they'll have theprivate bathrooms and thethings they need. white Now, how do you learnhow to help yourself?I remember when the and good tennis ballsthat kinds in the city of NewOrleans lost good baseballs Canal. rolled into the sewers. Later, they wouldfloat out into the Industrial the balls We had an old netand we would pray for therain to come because all balls.When the we had fromthe last rain haddisappeared.So we needed some new

99 rain came, the ballsfloated out of the sewers and we'd getthem.

This isthe way we are talking about selfhelp. We didn't go around stealing balls. We went down to the IndustrialCanal to concentrate on how we could get thoseballs we needed without money. So we found ways to get them from the canal.

But to get back to Detroitagain. We have a very good organizational structure inside of Detroit --both white and black that is moving tohelp solve the problem between the races.We have a plan that soon will beavailable to everybody in the UnitedStates.

The details of this plan willbe available at the appropriate time. Much still remains to bedone.

We have what you wouldcall an organizational chart in the Cityof Detroit, which outlines a programwith the Big Three, the New DetroitCommittee, and the Greater Detroit Boardof Commerce, plus a good manyothers, that we have approached with this master plan.

This master plan will be unfolded inthe near future in the City of Detroit. We will explain how it could work acrossthe country, because we are going to put it to work in Detroit.

The program includes apositive-thinking Negro group that believe in Americanism and a positive-thinkingwhite business commuhity that we know can do the job. Together we are going to showthe world, the citizens of Detroit that it will be done.

Our plan is designed to getpeople to work together, white andblack, because the blacks don't have aleader any more than the white's have aleader when it comes to this urban crisis.

You can get people to helpthemselves when they trust you and theyknow that you are really trying to help, notfor your personal gain, but to really help them help themselves. So many people say that the Negroes arelazy -- and they are this they are that. The whites have been brainwashed, youknow. But, if you prove to Negroes that you arereally sincere in trying to help them and you furnish the bootstrap forthem to try to help themselves --whether those helping are black or white -- a bigjob will be done in the Negro community.

The trouble is that today so manypeople tell the Negro to pull himself up by his own bootstraps,but they deprive him of nearlyeverything, even the bootstrap.

Today, the black people and the poor are sofrustrated because they hear about the War on Poverty. The first thing they thought of was -- now,I'm going to get food in my stomachand I'm going to get some shoes.

But the first thing thathappened was that there were lots ofpeople hired in the Poverty Program and allof everything was away up there, andthe poor down here whostill haven't any shoes on theirfeet, and still haven't got any food in theirstomachs.

Still the program is supposed to be aWar on Poverty. They've taken

100 people that had good jobs and giventhem better jobs. Sure, these people are making more money, but the poor arebeing alienated even more. This is why they are getting angrier. The poor see all this money going to waste. Then they hear people say -- give me some more money tofind out how I wasted it. And the poor remain hungry.

Basically, our plan will face up to these gapsin the Poverty Program.

First of all, the poor have got to have ahouse to live in, they've got to have food and money tobuy it. They've got to have clothes to wear.

In detroit, with the CareerDevelopment Center, we've started with education, but education is not the total answer. You've got to prepare the whole man. Even a job itself is not the entire answer. You've got to do other things. You mesh these other things to getthis whole man really functioning in the mainstream. This is what you have to do.

This new plan we've worked out inDetroit, broadly speaking, is one in which we are going to look into all ofthe basic functions that are needed to make this man happy. And we have to do this in cooperation withthe white community, because they have all the moneyand all the facilities.And the white community, some of them, have a lotof dedication.

Before closing I want to say somethingabout the Career Development Center. It is situated in a three story,32,000 square foot building at 14th and McGrawin Detroit. This is right in the heart of what,last year, was the riot area.Most of the trouble was on 12th and we are on14th. So you can see, we were just a couple of blocks away from the riot,but the only damage to the Center was one broken window.

The Career Development Center is ado-it-yourself, self improvement project, and its Board of Trustees includes36 of Detroit's most influential men.

Noboyd gets a handout and nobody isguaranteed a job. It even costs money to get what is offered.Not one cent of government moneyis involved.

Original angels were Henry Ford, II,chairman of the Ford Motor Co., and Charles Helin, head of the Helin Tackle Co.,but the list of contributors is a cross section of the Detroitbusiness community.

With Mr. Ford leading it, a fund-raisingcampaign has raised $250,000 for this year's budget with $325,000 as the goalfor the budget for the current year.

High school graduates and drop-outs,who have gotten at least through the eighth grade, are initial targets.As it grows, Community Development Center plans to dig deeper into the unemployedbut at first it is reaching for those it feels can be made employable quickly.

Currently, the Center offers generaleducational courses the three Rls, typing, business machine operation,clerical training and teletype operating. In the planning stage arewelding, auto mechanics, electrical applianceand equipment maintenance, cooking and serving.

There are no graded classes.Tests indicate a student's levelof learning.

101 Those who enroll pay $25, either upon entering, or from income after they get a job.

I never did believe that any man or woman, appreciated anything he got for nothing.

The graduates, sixty thus far, have all been women, as the school isn't ready to accept men yet. Another 114 are enrolled in classes limited to 12 students each, but the Center has a goal of 3,000 graduates a year.

You ask, "What about the men, if we aren't accepting them?" We're not ignoring them.We're placing them with big company apprentice programs for training, but that will soon end too, and then we'll train them ourselves.

We are proud of the Career Development Center as an example of what can be done with self help and determination. We had an idea and people listened -- the blacks and the whites.We're going to prove that by working together -- we can solve our problems.

102 THE MANPOWER AND CONSUMERPOTENTIAIS OF THE URBAN POOR

Seymour L. Wolfbein

103 This paper presents a first attempt to illustrate, in quantitative terms, the pottntials of both manpower supply and consumer spending, which exist among the urban poor.

Specifically, it presents illustrative, but specific, estimates

of the changes which could occur in both the size and composi-

tion of the American work force (including its occupational

distribution) and the size and composition of personal consumer

expenditures (including product distribution)--if we continue

on a course of sustained economic growth, meet our major

commitments in the arena of civil rights and make a meaningful

dent on the incidence of poverty.

These estimates and projections underscore the fact

that any kind of really important move in these

directions would cause a significant decrease in

expected manpower shortages which are expected

over the next half dozen years or so--and would

bring a dramatic burst of change in spending,

both in greatly increased amounts and changing

patterns associated with rising living standards.

104 PART A

"Our present studyfinds that not enough

manpower willbe available in ten years

if the Americanpeople and theirgovernment

try to achievesimultaneously allstandards

which knowledgeablepeople regard as

desirable and reasonablein the various

areasidentified as nationalgoals."(1)

just-published (February,1968) This conclusion,based on a implications of Americanobjectives as full scale studyof the manpower Commission on NationalGoals(2) first described inPresident Eisenhower's fewer workers willbe required in directly contravenesthe argument that technological development. the years aheadbecause of accelerating by this study pointto the In fact, theestimates projected workers than the U.S. Labor Department need of almost14 million more employed work forceby 1975, if data indicate willmake up the American a nationin such areas ashealth, we kindledalive our aspirations as retraining, agriculture, education, housing,social welfare, manpower equipment, urbandevelopment, etc. natural resources,private plant and depend on what actions What transpires by1975 will, of course, almost certainly be we take togive effect to ourgoals; there will defense, space,international shifts in emphasis, e.g.,in national entirely new goalwill emanate aid; it is evenconceivable that some despite the short spanof only seven from the course ofhuman events, still other variables: years between nowand 1975. There are, indeed, but just overthe horizon, may Technologicaldevelopments, yet unseen, variety of fields. diminish manpowerrequirements in a 105 There is one other pathway available formeeting national manpower needs: The reduction in unemployment, thediminution in underemployment, the entry into the laborforce of significant numbers of persons of working age nowestranged from the American job market.

There exists in the U.S.A. today an enormous manpowerpotential which could yield the hands, thetalents, the skills to meet a considerable part of the shortfall inworkers anticipated by 1975, assuming wewish to make some considerable advance in reaching ourgoals.

The following section describes thisdecade's (1965-1975)

expected changes in the size andcomposition of the American labor force,

as background to anexamination of what this manpower potential canbe.

There are ten major points about manpowerchange by 1975 which

arerelevant.(3)

1. The span of years running from 1965 to1975 will witness

a rise of about 207 inthe labor force of the U. S. The net increase

will amount to about 15 million workers--thelargest upturn for any ten

year period in Americanhistory, bigger even than the muchdiscussed

population explosion.

2. A big part of the 1965-75 storylies in the enormously

different pattern of change which will occurduring this decade among the

various age groups. One age group--those who willbe between 35 and 44

years of age--will actuallyexperience a decline of about onemillion

workers by 1975. The adjacent age cohort--thosebetween 25 and 34

years of age--will riseby an unprecedented 6 millions, or407, or

double the overall rate of labor force increasewhich, as already noted,

is itself unparalleled in size.

106 by age 3. Between 1965 and 1975,the labor force increases are expected tolook as follows:

Change in LaborForce/By Age andColor/1965-1975

White Nonwhite AZS Total 26% Total 20% 19% 54 14-19 24 20

51 20-24 42 41 40 25-34 41 41 -1 35-44 -6 -6

18 45-54 13 12

21 55-64 22 22

2 65- 4 7

figures is the hugewhite-nonwhite 4. Highlighted by these Because of the post war differential in labor forceincreases by 1975. than a fifty per cent bulge in birth rates,there is going to be more At the earlier ages, upturn in the numberof new, nonwhiteworkers. workers in the nonwhites are going tomake up one out of every seven

searching for manpower,especially in U.S. All employing institutions experienced adultworkers, the face of the projecteddecline among the more in the immediate yearsahead--that are alreadyfinding--and will find it more so age cohorts,where non- the pool of availableworkers is among the younger

whites account forincreasingly significantnumbers. profile comes face toface with same 5. This kind of manpower industrial and occupationaldeployment equally dramatic changesin both the

of the labor force. world where its majority We already are theonly country in the rather than goods, andthe of workers are engagedin producing services direction, as the few summary outlook is for furthermovement in that

show: figures which follow 107 Per Cent Change in Employment Major Industry Division

1965-1975

Industry Division % Change: 1965-1975

Total 22%

Goods-Ptoducing 7

Mining -2

Construction 32

Manufacturing 9

Agriculture -18

Service-Producing 32

Transportation & Public Utilities 12

Trade 27

Finance, Insurance 23

Science 42

Government 39

If these changes actually take place--and the movement so far since 1965 has been almost exactly on course, then:

- -Wo out of every three workers will be engaged in producing

services and one in three will be producing goods./In 1950,

the ratio was 50-50 between goods and services.

- -More than one in six workers will be working for a government

enterprise, mostly at the state and local level.

- -Less than 570 of all workers will be producing all the

agricultural production in this country.

- -One out of every five workers willbe earning a living by

buying and selling ("trade").

108 6. Simultaneously, the white collar occupations have moved way ahead of theirblue collar counterparts, are scheduled forstill further substantial increases inemployment;

Per Cent Change In EmploymentaMajor Occu ational Group 1965 - 1975

Occupational Group Z Change 1965-1975

Total 22

White Collar 33

Professional, technical 45

Proprietary, managerial 25

Clerical 31

Sales 23

Blue Collar 14

Skilled craftsmen 24

Semi-skilled operatives 12

Unskilled laborers -3

Service 35

Farm -18

By 1975: people who work will be - -Justabout one out of every two

engaged as a white collar worker.

- -One outof every seven workerswill be professional personuel. will, for the first time in - -Infact, professional personnel

our history,outnumber the skilled craftsman,the historic

symbol of American industrialenterprise.

- -Lessthan 57 of all workerswill be unskilled.

needs 7. Even the very geographyof employment and manpower

has experienced huge changeand there appears to benothing in the offing

which indicates any moderation in this change.

109 following pex cent Just within thisdecade (1961-1966) the change rangein employment prevailed amongthe different regions:

U.S.A. 18%

East South Central 24

South Atlantic 24

Pacific 22

West South Central 22

East North Central 19

Mountain 19

West North Central 16

New England 13

Middle Atlantic 11

As a result:

--One out of everysix jobs can be foundin just three states:

California, Texas and Florida. Jersey, Pennsylvania), --The Middle AtlanticRegion (New York, New

always the holder of firstplace in its share ofnonfarm

jobs has been ousted by a newleader. The region with the

most nonfarmjobs is now the EastNorth Central Region

comprising Michigan, Ohio,Illinois, Indiana andWisconsin.

--Every state of thedeep South has increasedemployment above

the national average rate. workers are In looking ahead majorincreases in nonwhite which is scheduled across thegeographic board. The New England region workers 25-54 years of age experiencing a 33% increasein nonwhite male similar size upturn among during this decade, isprojected to have a experienced these workers during the nextdecade. Some regions which

smaller percentage increases amongthe nonwhite maleworkers cohort

110 during the next--doubling during this decade arein for major increases West North Centralregions. in the Pacific region,tripling in the East and Mississippi, with all The same is truefor individual states. 427 increase in its of its out-migration,is still expected to see a workers--double the increaseit number of 25-54 yearold nonwhite male example, is getting a 2% is getting thisdecade. Michigan, as another 167 increase in the decline in this group now,but is projected to get a

next decade. than an inter- 8. The geographicproblem is, of course, more is, in its most pressing State or regional one. In many respects it

aspects, a local,city one. nonwhites in the Centralcity - -Duringthe past 25 years,

population have doubled; yetthey have actuallydeclined in

Suburbia. of this decade, theNegro popula- --During the first five years among the tion in centralcities rose by 20%; itfell by

whites. the central city, - -Yetjob opportunitieshave moved outside and occullations too, especially amongexactly those industries continue to in which have experienced(and are scheduled to of growth. the years ahead) thelargest overall rates

of the urban poor,particularly 9. A very considerable part America. In the face the nonwhites, are recentarrivals from rural poor millions during the pastdecade in of a total populationincrease of 28 declined by 400,000--allof it the U.S., the ruralpopulation actually 600,000 among Negrorural residents. and more accountedfor by a drop of

111 The great majority of these out-migrants are the younger workers

(for years, now, the highest migration rates have prevailed among those in their late teens and in their twenties). The Department of Agriculture sees a migration rate as high as 35% among that part of the rural labor force which is in its twenties during this decade.

Thus, the upturn in the young nonwhite labor force, already shown to be scheduled for unprecedently large increases nationally, will actually be concentrated in the urban areas of the U.S.A.

10. Finally, a look at the major bridge wllich brings labor demand and labor supply together in this country--education, which always also has served as the pathway toward upward social and economic mobility.

The relationship between education and poverty can be seen from the following summary table showing the situation prevailing at mid-decade:

Education of Head of Family Incidence of Poverty

Total 19%

Less than 8 years of school 44

8 years 25

8-11 years 18

12 years 10

13-15 years 9

16 or more years 5

The same, of course, is true of the relationship between educational attainment and unemployment. As recent data indicate, the jobless rate among those who do not finish high school is about double that of high school graduates who, in turn, have a rate of unemployment almost triple that of the college graduate.

112 In this constellation, the nonwhite has fared relatively poorly.

As late as 1966, the mediar years of schooling among white workers

18 years of age and over was 12.3 (more than a high school graduation); for the nonwhite counterpart, the figure was 10.5, only a little beyond the sophomore year in high school. Yet, the nonwhite actually has a higher educational attainment than the white in the pm:essional and clerical occupations (he often needs that extra to land this kind of job); but he falls badly behind in the other job fields.

III

In viewing these ten major points, it has to be underscored that the poor in general, the nonwhite in particular, and the urban ghetto resident most especially, have experienced:

- -Thehighest rates of unemployment.

- -Thehighest incidence of underemployment.

- -The highestproportions of labor force disappearance.

In terms of unemployment:

The summary table presented below gives brief but telling testi- mony on the persevering differentialsin unemployment. Sustained rates

of economic growth and, indeed, employment growth overall,simply

have failed to make a meaningful dent on the simultaneous existence

of extremes in unemployment.

113 Differentials In Unemployment Rates in 1967(4)

National Average 3.8%

Men in professional and technical work 1.3

Married men 1.8

All whites 3.4

All nonwhites 7.4

Men in unskilled occupations 7.5

18 and 19 year old boys 10.5

18 and 19 year old girls 12 7

16 and 17 year old boys 14.5

16 and 17 year old girls 14.8

Nonwhite 18 and 19 year old boys 20.1

Nonwhite 18 and 19 year old girls 28.3

Nonwhite 16 and 17 year old boys 28.9

Nonwhite 16 and 17 year old girls 32.0

The situation is exacerbated among those who reside in the urban ghettos. Documentation of some of the facts of this situation are now available for the first time in asystematic collection of the data undertaken by the U. S. Department of Labor on the basis of itsongoing monthly sample of the labor force.

The data for the year just past (1967)--some of which are presented in the following paragraphs show that:

- -In the20 largest standard metropolitan statistical areas the

rates of unemployment are bigger for thecentral city than

for the urban fringe.

- -Theunemployment rates are consistently higher for the nonwhites

than the whites

114 --The unemployment rates areconsistently very much higherfor

those in their teens.

Thus:

Unemployment Rates in 20 LargestCentral Cities and Their Urban Fringes(5) 1967

Central Cities Urban Fringes,

3.37 Total 4.77 3.1 White 3.7 7.0 Nonwhite 7.6 1.7 White men 20 years and over 2.8 4.4 Nonwhite men 20 yearsand over 4.9

3.6 White women 20 years and over 3.5 6.3 Nonwhite women 20 yearsand over 6.6

10.7 White persons 16-19 years 11.5 37.5 Nonwhite persons 16-19 years 31.6 cities In general, the 1967unemployment rate forthe central

fortheir outlying urban areas; was 437 higherthan the corresponding rates for the country as a whole. it was 247 higher thanthe corresponding rate

Attention must also bedirected to the severeproblem existing

youth, for example, the among those intheir teens. Among the nonwhite central city than for unemployment rate was 197higher for those in the 43% higher than their counterparts in theoutlying urban areas; it was

the corresponding ratefor the country as awhole.

In terms ofunderemployment:

Underemployment can be definedin a variety of ways,but one of

the most telling isdocumented by the skilllevel at which different sectors

of the population areemployed.

115 The contrasting occupationaldistribution, shown in the summary table below, underscores thehuge differentials existing betweenthe whites and nonwhites.

A few highlights:

--While just about 1 out of every2 white workers is in a white

collar job, the corresponding ratio amongnonwhites is about

1 in 5.

--The proportion of whites inprofessional jobs is doublethat

of the nonwhites

Occupational Distribution ofEmployed Persons/a Color/1967(6)

Occupational Group White Nonwhite

Total 100.07 100.07

White Collar 48.8 22.9

Professional, technical 14.0 7.4

Proprietary, managerial 11.0 2.6

11.2 Clerical 17.2

1.7 Sales 6.6 42.4 Blue Collar 36.0

Skilled craftsmen 13.9 7.7

Semi-skilled operatives 18.1 23.5

Unskilled laborers 4.0 11.2 29.4 Service 10.5

Private household workers 1.4 10.4

Other service 9.1 19.0

Farm 4.7 5.3

116 --One out of every ten nonwhite employedworkers is an unskilled

laborer--the single nonfarm occupational group whichis

expected to decline in job opportunities by1975. Twenty

per cent of all thenonwhite men workers are in this category.

--Almost one out of every three nonwhite employedworkers is in

the low-paying service occupations. Actually, the figure is

50% for the nonwhite women: 257 in domesticservice, 257 in

other service work such as laundries,chambermaids in hotels,

etc.

In terms of labor forcedisappearance:

It is a well known and oftendocumented fact that considerable proportions of the nonwhite males are notenumerated in the labor force at all.

The story for the year just past (1967) was asfollows:

Per Cent of Noninstitutional Population inthe Labor Force

60-64 yrs.,65-over 12:34 atal. 212(.21.1LE 45-54 yrs. 55-59 yrs. White males 97.5% 97.67 95.8% 90.4% 78.3% 27.2% Nonwhite males 95.5 94.1 90.7 86.0 75.4 25.6

These figures omit altogether, those nonwhites who are notenumerated at all--a significant figure,particularly in the urban ghettos.

A final word for this section: The discussion and data presenta-

tion have focused on the nonwhite who representsthe severest form of the

current and anticipated urban problem. But the urban poor also include

substantial numbers of whites and the succeeding part of this paperwill

present some of the highlights of thatphenomenon in terms of income. At

this point, it will suffice to note, for example, thatwhites in the central

cities experienced an unemployment rate 20% abovethose residing in the

urban areas and nine per cent above the national averageof all white

workers.

117 IV

The information described so far almost speaks for itself in underscoring the significant manpower potentials available from the urban poor. However, various estimates are available which quantify, in an illustrative manner, the kind of additional employment that could ensue if we continued on a course of sustained economic growth and followed our commitment to civil rights while pursuing various national goals.

For example, coming back to the study to which we referred in opening this part of the paper, the National Planning Association estimates that consummating our goals in the field of urban development would add employment for more than a million nonwhites by 1975, an 81% increase over the comparable figure for 1962. This study contains a wide variety of these projections which illustrate the kinds of potentials we have before us to which the reader can refer.

It is interesting to speculate--again for illustrative purposes--on what the occupational distribution in this country would look like if nonwhites were employed in each occupational group no more than just in the same proportion that they are expected to represent in total employment in 1975, which is about 117.

All estimates agree that there will be about 10 million nonwhites employed in civilian jobs in 1975. The following table compares what the projection on their occupational distribution may be expected to be in 1975 with what would prevail if their share of the jobs in each occupational group would be equivalent to their share of the overall job total (11%).

118 Occupational Distribution of Employed Nonwhites in1975 (In thousands) A B-A

Total 10 008 10 008 VII MID

Professional, technical 789 1,394 +605

Proprietary, managerial 280 1,045 +765

Clerical 1,077 1,657 +580

Sales 230 589 +359

Skilled 767 1,208 +441

Semi-skilled 2,015 1,676 -339

Unskilled 1,114 510 -604

Household service 1,245 360 -885

Other service 1,980 1,167 -813

Farm 511 402 -109

A = Projected by National PlanningAssociation--cf. footnote reference(1),

Appendix Table 12.

B = Assuming nonwhites represented11.47 of total in each occupation.

These illustrative estimates underline boththe current and 1975

projected concentration of nonwhites in theless skilled job groups and the

kind of shift this would mean in the directionof the white collar occupa-

tions and away from the service andlaborer classifications.

Such shifts in the relatively short spanof years remaining till

1975 will, of course, warrant such terms as"unrealistic."They are set

down as an exercise which is responsive tothe question "What are the

manpower potentials of theurban poor?"They can serve as a benchmark

against which we can measure the actual courseof events of the immediate

years ahead, with the reminderthat if the occupational distribution now

prevailing among nonwhites prevails in 1975,then the expectations are

119

.111:su' that their unemployment rate will be fivetimes that of the national average (7). We are already well into the decade1965-1975.

Every organization, public and private,which has made estimates of future manpower needs underscores twoitems: The anticipated significant increases in the demand for professionaland managerial talent, for skilled hands--and--the shortages in prospect in these veryfields.

Responding again to the question of manpowerpotentials among the currently underutilized sectors of our population,the following estimates are given of theadded supply which would be available in this countryin a number of specific occupations if, again,following what we did with the broad occupational group, we assumedthat nonwhites had no more, no less than their overall share of theexpected job totals in each:

Employment in Selected Occupations of Nonwhitesin 1975 (In thousands)

A B B-A

Engineers 31 177 +146

Professional nurses 68 98 + 30

Physicians 24 35 + 11

Elementary and Secondary School Teachers 208 235 + 27

Secretaries, stenos, typists 233 435 +202

Carpenters 49 97 + 48

Machinists 21 63 + 42

Toolmakers, die makers, setters 4 16 + 12

Telephone operators 16 42 + 26

Lawyers 5 40 +35

Librarians 9 19 + 10

A = Prcjected by National PlanningAssociation--cf. footnote reference (1), Appendix Table 12.

B = Assuming nonwhites represented11.47 of total in each occupation.

120 Again, of course, these figures represent extremely sharpshifts in a relatively short span of time andshould be regarded as benchmarks against which the movement of the immediate years ahead canbe viewed.

But an additional 150,000 engineers, or200,000 more secretarial personnel, or 50,000 more carpenters, or even10,000 more of the intractably short librarians wouid go a long, long way not only in upgrading asurpassingly significant sector of the urban poor, but also a long, long waytoward meeting the manpower demands of the mid-seventies.

121 PART B

Ina nation where, as alreadyhas been pointed out, one out of every seven new workers are very soon going to benonwhite--yet, where currently one out of every mo nonwhite males whoworks does so

at unskilled labor and where upwardsof 10 per cent of the nonwhite

adult males don't even get to be enumerated at all, anykind of significant

redeployment begins to have almost startling manpower results.

By the same token, given the closeassociation between

unemployment, underemployment and labor forcedisappearance with poverty,

any kind of significantredeployment also begins to have some major

consumer and spending potentials aswell.

As to the facts about income in general and povertyin

particular, (8) the following half dozen points warrantparticular mention.

1. In March, 1966 (latest data available) the median money

income of American families was $7,436, double what it was adecade and

a half ago, i.e., in 1951. Even when price increases since that time

are taken into account, the increase overthis span of time was about

two-thirds.

2. In March, 1966 families headed by a white personaveraged

$7,722 of money income; nonwhite families averaged$4,628 during the same

year, about 60% that of thewhites. Throughout the past twenty years

for which this kind of information has been collected,the ratio of

nonwhite to white median family income has averaged about55%; it was as

low as 51% in 1958; at 60% in 1966, it was at its highestpoint in the

post World War II period.

122 3. The gains in income have operated to reduce the numbers and proportions of Americans living in poverty. Trends since 1959 are depicted in the accompanying table. Among the highlights:

- -In 1966, there wereabout 30 million persons living in

poverty in the U.S.; 20 million were white; 10 million were

nonwhite.

--This represented a substantial decline in poverty in this

country.

- -Among whites,the incidence of poverty has been reduced

by 1/3 since 1959.

- -Among nonwhites,the corresponding reduction amounted

to 1/4.

- -As a result, whiteshave benefited more than nonwhites from

the recent declines in the incidence of poverty. They (nonwhites)

accounted for 287 of the poor in 1959, but 327 of the poor

in 1966.

- -About12k million children under 18 years of age live with

poor families.

- -About 1 outof every 8 white children under 18 are part

of poor families.

- -The correspondingratio among nonwhite children is 1 in 2.

123

e ;. Incidence of Poverty/By Family Statusand Color/1966 and 1959 (In thouE nds)

1966 1959 Below Poverty Below Poverty Level Level

Family Status and Percent Color Total NumberPercent Total Number

Total

22.17 All persons 193,424 29,731 15.4% 176,479 38,940

In families 181,054 24,910 13.8 165,777 33,864 20.4

8,281 18.4 Head 48,921 6,089 12.4 45,062

Children under 18yrs. 69,837 12,503 17.9 63,745 16,637 26.1

Other family members 62,296 6,318 10.1 56,970 8,946 15.7

Unrelated individuals 14 years and over 12,370 4,821 39.0 10,702 5,076 47.4

White

All persons 170,240 20,126 11.8 156,869 28,231 16.0

In families 159,465 16,101 10.1 147,714 24,072 16.3

15.1 Head 44,023 4,379 9.9 40,828 6,183

Children under 18 yrs. 59,573 7,305 12.3 55,017 11,067 20.1

Other family members 55,909 4,417 7.9 51,869 6,822 13.1

Unrelated individuals 14 years and over 10,775 4,025 37.4 9,155 4,159 45.4

Nonwhite

All persons 23,194 9,605 41.4 19,610 10,709 54.6

In families 21,589 8,809 40.8 18,063 9,792 54.2 49.6 Head 4,898 1,710 34.9 4,234 2,098

Children under 18 yrs. 10,304 5,198 50.4 8,728 5,570 63.5

Other family members 6,787 1,901 29.8 5,101 2,124 41.7

Unrelated individuals 14 years and over 1,593 796 49.9 1,547 917 59.3

124 4. The distribution offamily money income is also most instructive, especially when whitesand nonwhites are compared: The story for 1966 was asfollows:

White Families Nonwhite Families

Total 1007 100%

Under $1,000 2 5

$1,000-1,999 5 13

$2,000-2,999 6 13

$3,000-4,999 13 23

$5,000-7,999 18 17

$8,000-9,999 24 16

10 $10,000-14,999 22

$15,000 and over 10 3

By the time the $3,000mark is reached, 31 per centof the

nonwhite families have alreadybeen encompassed; this spanincludes only

13% of the white families. More than half (54%) ofall nonwhite families

fall below the $5,000 figure;almost three fourths (74%)of all white

families fall above the$5,000 figure. is well 5. The effect of thedifferential occupational status

reflected in the differentialfamily money income during1966 among whites

and nonwhites who wereyear-round full-time workers,i.e. where both

were employed atleast 50 out of the 52weeks of 1966 at least 35 hours worker, a week. Amond white families headedby a year-round full-time

median income was $8,906 during1966; among the nonwhites, thecorresponding

figure was $6,072, almost 257less.

125 of course, in family income -- 6. Regional differences also exist, both among white and nonwhites. The situation for 1966:

Median Family Percent of Families with averageincomes: $10,000 and over Coloz and Region Income Below $1,000 Below $3,000

436 27 14% 30%

32 White 7,722 2 13

12 Nonwhite 4,628 5 31

10% 337 14alltAAX $7.878 1% 34 White 8,056 1 10

12 Nonwhite 5,543 3 18

327 North Central $7,893 27 12Z

33 White 8,051 2 11

20 Nonwhite 5,948 3 21 227 South $6._233 470 21%

White 6,773 3 17 25

Nonwhite 3,446 8 42 5 35% pest 8 089 27 117

36 White 8,217 2 11 25% Nonwhite 6,514 3 18

126 The Southern region of the U. S. is stillthe lowest on the family income scale, although it is coming upfast, showing the biggest gain in family income since 1953. Between 1953 and 1966, medianfamily

income rose 557 in the South, afteradjusting for price increases. The corresponding increases in the otherregions were 417 for both the

Northeast and North Central regionsand 457 for the West.

However, family income inthe South in 1966 was still about

$1,650 short of the next ranking region(Northeast) and $1,850 short of

the region with the highest average(the West).

The desparity was particularlymarked for the nonwhites. For

example, 427 of Southern nonwhitefamilies fell below the $3,000 mark,

double the progortion in the nextranking region (North Central). In

the West, 25% of the nonwhitefamilies averaged incomes of $10,000 or

more, quintuple thecorresponding ratio in the South.

From the perspective of thelatter part of the 1960s in the

U.S.A., the picture appears toemphasize sizeable gains in family income

and significant declines in theincidence of poverty over the years,

but with a persistence of regionaldifferentials and majorwhite/nonwhite

differences in levels and distributionsof income, adding up, in fact,

to a worsening in therelative position of the nonwhitesin some major

arenas, e.g., as illustratedby the fact that they now make up abigger

proportion of the poor than they did some yearsago. Perhaps one way of

summarizing this last point is to notethe fact that by the middleof this

decade, Negro families accountedfor about 107 of all families butonly

570 of all family income.

127 These items provide the context for the following four factors which should also be noted and taken into account in attempting to assay what the potentials in consumer spending are if improvements should occur.

1. Note should be taken of the relative position of the Negro

in the population, and how it varies with different parts of our

geographyand how it relates to income differentials by region, for

example.

Thus, in 1966, Negroes accounted for 11% of the USA population,

but that proportion varied by region as follows:

South 20%

Northeast 87

North Central 87

West 5%

In other words, the lowest family incomes p.evail in the region where the Negroes represent the biggest proportion of the population;

by the same token, even relatively small improvements would bring

relatively large results in that very region.

The geography of the American Negro has many other significant

aspects, as illustrated for example, by the following figures which show

the enormous concentration of Negroes in the Central cities, no matter

what region they are in:

Negro White

U.S.A. 100% 1007

Metropolitan areas 69 64

Central Cities 56 27

Urban fringe 13 37

Smaller cities, towns, rural areas 31 36

128 The nub of the differencein the geography of thL twocolor

live groups isclear: Well over half of theNegroes in this country the whites; only 13% in the Central cities,double the proportion among one-third of the of the Negroes live inthe outlying suburban areas, corresponding proportion amongthe whites.

The proportions of Negroesin the 30 largestcities in 1965 were asfollaws:

% Negro City % Negro City 20% Washington, D. C. 66% Pittsburgh, Pa,

18 Newark, N. J. 47 Columbus, Ohio

New York, N. Y. 18 Atlanta, Ga. 44

17 New Orleans, La. 41 Los Angeles, Calif. Buffalo, N. Y. 17 Memphis, Tenn. 40 13 Baltimore, Md. 38 Boston, Mass. 12 Si. Louis, Mo. 36 San Francisco, Calif. 11 Detroit, Mich. 34 Milwaukee, Wisc.

9 Cleveland, Ohio 34 Denver, Colo. 8 Philadelphia, Pa. 31 San Antonio, Tex.

7 Chicago, Ill. 28 San Diego, Calif.

7 Cincinnati, Ohio 24 Seattle, Wash.

5 Indianapolis, Indiana 23 Phoenix, Ariz. 4 Houston, Tex. 23 Minneapolis, Minn.

Kansas City, Mo. 22

21 Dallas2 Tex.

2. There are two other pointsabout educational attainment here when related (which was discussed in PartA) which warrant some note

to consumerpotentials.

129 The first is the fact that regionaldifferentials also prevail

in educational attainment among Negroes(10). For Negroes 25 years of age and over the average (median) years ofschool .!ompleted was 9.1 in

March, 1967--just a shade above thefreshman year of high school, to be

compared with the average of 12.1 for thewhites of the same age group.

The corresponding figures for the Negro groupby region were:

West: 11.7

North Central: 10.4

Northeast: 10.3

South: 8.1

Last year, Southern Negroes 25 yearsof age and over averaged

an elementaryschool education, their counterparts in theWest were a

third of a year short of a highschool diplama.

The second, and very important to anestimate of the potentials

in the situation, is to recognizethe dynamics of educational attainNent

by Negroes, as shown by thefollowing few figures for 1967:(11)

Age Group :Total: Less than :Five to :Some high:High School

. five years:eight :school (9 :or oetter (12

: of school :years of:to 11 years or more years :school :of school): of school)

Negroes 25 and over 1007 18 31 22 29

Negroes 25,29 years 100% 2 16 29 53

Obviously, although stili laggingbehind the whites, the younger

Negroes are making very significantstrides in moving up the educational

ladders in comparison with the oldergenerations.

One of the major problems inthis connection, however,--andit

represents a significantcountervailing force which points up the very

long way we still have to go is thefact that not only do nonwhiteshave

less income than whites at everyeducational level, but the disparity is

130 greatest among those with a college education. In 1966, nonwhite men

25 years of age and over with only an elementary school education had median incomes which were 80% of the corresponding group among the whites; those with a high school education had incomeswhich were only

73% of the whites'; and thoge nonwhites with a college educationhad

only 667 of the average income of whites. (12)

3. The family is the basic spending unit in the U.S.A.and

this is why the data presented in this Part are focusing onfamily income.

(Similar income data are also available for so-called"unrelated

individuals," i.e., people living by themselves. These are also taken

into account in presenting estimates of consumerspending potentials

shown in the last part of this paper.)

It is a matter of some import, therefore, to notethat, in

1966, among families with children unde- 18 years of age: 927 of the

white families had both parents present, while only72% of the nonwhite

families had both parents present--and almost all of the one-parent

families were headed by the woman. What is more, the proportion of

these nonwhite families headed by one parent hasincreased since 1950.(13)

4. In assessing current income conditions andtheir relation-

ship to potential improvements, note should also betaken of the very

significant changes in the pattern of consumer expenditureswhich occur

as income level changes. (14)

In general, the items on which urban familiesspend their

income do not differ significantly by color. They do change markedly

for both Negroes and Whites as their annual incomeschange.

131 Per Cent of Family Expenditures/By Family Characteristic and Income Group

Urban Po ulation/1960-1961

Under$3,000 $7,500 and over

Negro White Negro White

Total expenditures 1007 100% 100% 100%

Basics 64 63 53 50

Food 29 29 21 23

Clothing 25 27 16 16

Stqter 10 7 16 11

Others 36 37 47 50

Household operation 11 9 13 12

Medical care 5 9 4 6

Transportation 6 8 14 16

Miscellaneous 14 11 16 16

132 As income goes up, the proporti,in (not, of course,the actual amounts) of income spent on fond and clothing move down quitesharply, while such items as transportation and housing andhousehold operation move up.

The changes in some of the more specific items of expenditures

are enormous. Only 24% of Negro families with incomes under$3,000 a

year, at the beginningof this decade, owned homes; the corresponding

proportion among Negro families with incomes of $7,500 or morejumped

to 54%.

The change in such durable goods as autos is even moredramatic.

Only 17% Negro families with incomes under$3,000 owned automobiles;

88% of the Negro families with incomes of$7,500 or more owned automobiles.

The propottion of white families owningsuch items as homes

and autos is much bigger at all incomelevels, but it also changes by a

huge factor as income goes up. For example, 31% of white familieswith

incomes under $3,000 owned autos;95% of the white families with incomes

of $7,500 owned autos.

Similar expenditure data are availablefor other specific items

ranging from room air conditioners to visits tophysicians and dentists.

They will not be detailed here, butthe same situations prevail: There

are significantdifferentials by color and by income, pointing tolarge

potentials in consumer spending with adiminution in both differentials.

III

In the last section of Part A,illustrative projections were

presented to indicate what might be approachedin terms of manpower

133 potentials if progress aere made in the laborforce/employment/unemployment constellation prevailing among the poor in general,the nonwhites in particular.

Similar illustrative projections are presented here in terms of the consumer spending potentials among these groupsin our population.

In order to be able to present someorder of magnitudes, as was done on

the manpower side, the calculations were made as follows:

1. Given, the pattern of personal consumptionexpenditures

as portrayed in the GNP accounts(15), and

- -Taking into accountthe regional differences in income as

described, and

- -Taking intoaccount the white/nonwhite differentials as

described, and

- -Taking intoaccount changing patterns of consumer expendi-

tures with changing levels of income, asdescribed, and

- -Taking toaccount educational differentials asdescribed

It was assumed that

- -Therewould, in the next seven years, be a decline inthe

incidence of poverty of one-third--equal to theone-third decline in the

incidence of poverty which took place during the past seven yearsfor

which we have data (1959-1966), and

- -Leavingstill one out of every 12 white persons and one out

of every four nonwhite persons in poverty.

2. Under these conditions there would be a 217 increasein

personal income in the U.S.A.

In order to again illustrate the impactof such a figure,

it can be noted that, at 1967 levels:

134 --Personal income in the U.S. would have been$132 billions higher than it actually was./And, even with the samelarger-than-average savings rate which prevailed in 1967, which isputting it too conservatively since the added income among the poor representhigh velocity dollars--personal

spending would have been $103 billions higher.

3. The regional distribution of percentageincreases in

personal income would run as follows:

21%

South 32

Northeast 18

West 17

North Central 14

4. With a little over $100 billions in consumerexpenditures added

(which, incidentally, in order again to make aconservative estimate,

omits any multiplier effects of addedspending) the deployment of the

consumer doilar in 1967 wouldhave been as follows:

Food $131 22%

Clothing 65 11

Personal Care 12 2

Housing 95 16

Household Operation 83 14

Medical Care 36 6

Transportation 83 14

All other 90 15

$595 billions 100%

The $131 billions expended on foodunder these projections

compares with an actual 196/expenditure of $96 billions.

135 The $65 billions expended on clothing under these projections

compares with an actual 1967 expenditure of $50 billions.

The $95 billions expended on housing under these projections

compares with an actual 1967 expenditure of $71 billions.

Some of the more specific categories show very much of the

same magnitudes of change. For example, under these projections, $24

billions would have been spent on gas and oil, in comparison with $lTh

billions which was the actual 1967 figure.

5. These estimates are, of course, illustrative and exploratory.

They are actually quite conservative. They are arithmatic and bypass

the human values involved.

What would happen in real life if another one-third cut in the

incidence of poverty would actually take place soon would be a virtual

explosion in expenditures based on both the physical and psychological

impact of changing jobs and income, consummating a rising level of living

accentuated by rising expectations of future improvements.

136

'"''""'''''''''''"''t""''''"2.t"h'''''''M)4''''I-" ' '-'4"''''''''44 "'''''.. 41.44'. FOOTNOTE REFERENCES

National 1. Gerhard Colni in preface toManpower Requirements for Ob'ectives in the 1970sby Leonard A. Lecht. National Planning Association. Washington, D. C. February, 1968. p. 15. President's Commission 2. Cf. Goals for Americans,The Report of the on NationalGoals, Prentice Hall, 1960.

These are based on astudy commissioned by theChamber of Commerce 3. Emerging Labor Force of the United States: Wolfbein, Seymour L., The of Commerce of the of the United States,Washington, D. C., Chamber United States, 1968.

Statistics. 4. U. S. Departmentof Labor, Bureau of Labor Cities Cf. U. S. Departmentof Labor. Jobless Rate in 20 Largest 5. The Much Higher Than InSuburbs. Release of February 20,1968. data are also availablein substantial detailfor the individual cities and areas.

of Labor, Bureau ofLabor Statistics. Employment 6. U. S. Department Washington, D. C. and Earnings and MonthlyReport on the Labor Force, (Vol. 14, No. 7) p. 130. Government PrintingOffice, January, 1968 Commission on Technology, 7. AS estimated in theReport of the National Automation and EconomicProgress, Technology andthe American Economy, 1966, p. 31. Families and Persons 8. Data in this sectionfrom Income in 1966 of Consumer Income in the United States,Current Population Reports, Commerce, Series P-60, No. 53,December 28, 1967. U. S. Department of Bureau of Census,Washington, D. C.

Distributions of white andNegro populations fromU. S. Departments 9. Conditions of Negroes of Commerce and Labor. Social and Economic Printing Office, in the United States. Washington, D. C., Government October, 1967 (BLS ReportNo. 332; CurrentPopulation Reports, Series P-23, No. 24).

U. S. Departmentof Commerce, 10. Cf. Educational Attainment: March, 1967. February 9, 1968, Table4, Bureau of Census,Series P-20, No. 169, p. 22.

11. Ibid., Table 1, p. 11.

12. Cf. reference (9) p. 21.

13. Ibid., pp. 68 and 69. based Cf. Ibid., p. 61. New data on patternsof consumer expenditures 14. Labor Statis- on the cityworker family budgetstudies of the Bureau of be seen from U. S. tics (although not yetavailable by color) can Department of Labor, Bureauof Labor Statistics,City Worker's Family Budget, Washington, D. C., GovernmentPrinting Office, Autumn, 1966 (Bulletin No. 1570-1). 137 Expenditures by Type ofProduct" 15. Specifically,"Personal Consumption Product and National Incomedata as calculatedin the Gross National by the Officeof Business Economicsof the U. S. Department of Commerce.

ANEW ERIC -!:olyse

JAN8 1969 on AthIt

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