Rondo Oral History Project Minnesota Historical Society
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Transcript of an oral history interview with Bernice Wilson with comments by daughter PATRICIA WILSON CRUTCHFIELD Thursday, March 20, 2003 at Crutchfield Residence Saint Paul, Minnesota Interviewed By Kateleen Hope Cavett Project as part of Society HAND in HAND's RONDO ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Saint Paul,History Minnesota Bernice Wilson did this interview at the age of eighty-two years. Mrs. Wilson discusses her disgust over the lack of respectable employment opportunities and frustration over theHistorical conservative laws that existed in Minnesota when she movedOral to Saint Paul from Chicago in 1949. Mrs. Wilson advised that she was a mother first, but at our request she details the social clubs the existed in the Black community. These clubs were created because Blacks were not welcome at many White owned establishments. She states, ''It was a fantastic social life, a fantastic social life." She describes the community support when her husbandRondo and son died, and her love for traveling. Pat Wilson Crutchfield, at age fifty-seven years, shares her mother's memory of the community support when her father passed away, and also discusses her involvementMinnesota in the church, and her experiences being raised as a "village child," as in the old African proverb, ''It takes a village to raise a child." This is a verbatim transcript of a taped interview, edited for clarity. Signed releases are on file from Mrs. Wilson and Mrs. Crutchfield. 3 BW: Bernice Wilson KC: Kate Cavett BW: I'm Bernice Wilson,1 mother of Patricia Wilson. Do you want to know where I live? KC: I'd love to know where you live. BW: _ Carroll, Saint Paul, Minnesota. PC: I'm Pat Wilson Crutchfield and I live at _ Aurora, Saint Paul, Minnesota, and I've lived in the Rondo community for fifty-three years. Came when I was four. Project BW: My God. Society KC: Mrs. Wilson, what year did you come to this community? BW: Did I come to Minnesota? KC: Minnesota. History BW: I came to Minnesota in 1949 and I moved on Rondo in 1953. KC: Where did you live first? Historical BW: 633 Iglehart. Oral KC: So you were still in the Rondo corridor? BW: Yes. I didn't mention that because I thought you were only interested in RondoRondo A venue. KC: What brought you to Minnesota? BW: My Minnesotahusband2 was transferred. He was a railway mail clerk. And he didn't want his children growing up in Chicago, so he asked for a transfer. KC: Which railroad did he work for? 1 Bernice Wilson was born January 21 , 1921 . 2 Husband John Wilson 8 BW: [He] worked for the post office. He was a railway mail clerk. PC: He ran on the Milwaukee [Rail] Road, didn't he? What was the name of the train he ran on? BW: Milwaukee, yes. But he wasn't a railroad person, he was a post office employee. KC: He worked for the United States Post Office? BW: Yeah, but he did run on the Milwaukee Road, from here to Chicago. But not as a railroad man, but as a railway mail clerk. He threw mail from Saint Paul to Chicago. Yeah. KC: What does it mean to throw mail? Project BW: Sort mail. Society PC: According to zip code and so forth. KC: So he would ride in the car and sort the mail all the way to Chicago? BW: Yes. He'd go to work about fourHistory hours before the train left Saint Paul. They would sort mail for the little towns so that as the train left Saint Paul and you hit the littleOral towns, they Historical had the mail packs ready. The train kept going, [and they had] one of those things with the arm out that takes the mailbags. You know about the arms? KC: I grew up in a little town that had one. BW: Okay.Rondo KC: So he would get up four hours before he had to sort the mail? BW: He wouldMinnesota go to work four hours before the train left, yeah. KC: And then sort the mail all the way to Chicago? BW: Yes. They started four hours ahead of time so that as they hit the little towns, the mail would be ready. 9 KC: Then would he turn around on another train and corne back that night? BW: No, no, he would usually spend the night and corne back the next day. PC: He spent a couple of nights. He was gone two or three days, wasn't he? BW: No, he worked a week, then he was off a week. That's why we always laughed and said that he worked ,twenty-six weeks, he was off twenty-six weeks. But what happened was his runs were-like he would run this week. Well, he would be going to Chicago, then he would corne back, then he would go out and go back to Chicago and then corne back. So he would do that for about a week or seven days. Then he was off for seven days, then he would go back. It might be for nineProject days next time. Yeah, but anyway, it averaged out so he worked twenty-six Societyweeks. [Then] he was off twenty-six weeks. KC: It sounds like his days were twelve [or] sixteen hour days, though, when he was on? History BW: Yeah, but he didn't-they usually worked nights or whatever. Sometimes he would work Oralin someone's Historical place. So he would go from here to Chicago working their place, but he'd deadhead back, yeah. Do you know what deadhead means? Or have I lost you? KC: No, I do, but why don't you explain it for the tape. BW: RondoThat means when you work in someone's place one way. And then you just get on a train as a passenger and corne back to Saint Paul. KC: I'm Minnesotafamiliar with the term because I have a friend who is a pilot and pilots use that same term. BW: What do you call that? Unpaid. 10 KC: Yes, the unpaid ride back. You came here and because his work was connected with the trains, did you ... BW: He worked in the post office. KC: Right. BW: And then after the post office, he took the test and then he went into railway mail. KC: Being in this neighborhood, did you connect with a lot of people who were connected to the railway? BW: No. KC: None? Project BW: With the railroad people, yes, but not with the post officeSociety. That's where people used to always get it confused, because he was on the railroad and whatever. They confused him with being a railroad person. He wasn't. He was post office. History KC: Were there a lot of Black people who were postal people? BW: No, there wasn't. No,Oral I don't think-thereHistorical was two, maybe three, at that time. KC: Most of the people he worked with were White? BW: Yes. PC: Oh,Rondo but there were a lot of railroad people here. BW: 01)., yes,Minnesota the railroad people. [I thought] she was asking me about your dad, yeah. Right, but not railway mail people. PC: I call myself a railroad child. My dad worked on the railroad. But I never get off into the post office. A lot of times they just assume he was a porter or a waiter. 11 BW: So many people have mentioned that because they thought that we were eligible for a railroad pass, when we weren't. He didn't work for the railroad. PC: We come from a line of railroad folk. KC: What company did your family work for? BW: I guess Illinois Central [Railroad]. KC: Okay. What was it like when you came here to Minnesota in 1949? What was your impression of this neighborhood that you had moved into? BW: Do you really want me to tell you? KC: [Amused] I really want you to tell me! Project BW: All right, I will really tell you. I thought this was Societyone of the worst places that I ever had the misfortune to go to. This reminded me of what they were talking about Georgia, Mississippi, the Deep South, for the Negroes. History I worked at Montgomery Wards in Chicago as an assistant supervisor. They had a MontgomeryOral WardsHistorical3 here. I thought because they had Wards here I could get transferred, maybe not in my same position, but at least a comparable job, and they would not transfer me. And so they said, "When you go there, go to the office and tell them that you were employed with Rondous. Just go to the office and tell them." So I did. What it was, they didn't have Negroes at Wards at that time doing anything but maid work and janitors.Minnesota 3 Montgomery Wards & Co. was located at 1400 University. 12 I think we came in November, so I had Thanksgiving and Christmas to get through. Although my husband was working, I always was independent, liked to make my own money. And so I went to work at Wards as a maid. Oh and I was so insulted, but I wasn't that insulted. I worked there for-I think for Christmas, yeah. I thought my husband was going to have a fit. He was from Oklahoma. He was the type of man that if he made a dollar a day, a dollar a week, a dollar a month.