Rondo Oral History Project Minnesota Historical Society
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Transcription of an oral history interview with Melvin Whitfield Carter Senior February 19 and November 28,2003 at at Mr. Carter's home, Saint Paul, Minnesota by Kateleen Hope Cavett with Mariah Sheldon, Hamline University Student as part of HAND in HAND's RONDO ORAL HISTORY PROJECTProject Saint Paul, Minnesota Society At age 79, Melvin Carter Senior describes the Rondo Avenue of his childhood. He talks of the children in the community knowing when notorious bank robber John Dillinger was hiding out in the Rondo community. He shares his father's history of playing in circusHistory bands before corning to Minnesota, and how his father began musical groups for the youth in the community, inspiring several to become professional musicians. His father and brother also provided live music at "chicken shacks" around town before World War II. Carter goes on to speakOral of his ownHistorical experience playing in a Navy band during World War II. He describes the postwar musical scene playing in musical groups for local social clubs. Carter also worked as a redcap at the railroad station and remembers how they would steer Black visitors to boarding houses instead of hotels so their feelings wouldn't be hurt. When the railroad business began to decline,Rondo he moved to Saint Paul School District. Mr. Carter became the first Black to achieve a "Chief Engineer License" and was head engineer at Humboldt High School for the last five years of his twenty-seven years of service to the school district.Minnesota He continued to supplement his family's income through his music, playing regularly for the larger community. After his family, music was always his primary love. Mr. Carter continued to play in musical groups through the time of this interview. This is a transcript of taped interviews, edited slightly for clarity. A signed release is on file from Mr. Carter. 3 Project Society History Oral Historical Rondo Minnesota 8 KC: Kateleen Hope Cavett MC: Melvin Carter KC: We are in Saint Paul at Mr. Carter's home. Can you give me your full name? MC: Melvin Whitfield Carter Senior.! KC: You so graciously showed us some history of your family. It was your parents that first came to Saint Paul? You had properties on Rondo, right? MC: From my first remembrance we lived at 305 Rondo and that was when I went to a Cathedral Grade SchooF through the Projectdoings of Saint Peter Claver Church,3 which I still belong to. They sent me thereSociety and I've always been grateful for that all my life. I went to Cathedral School, which was one through eight, and I started there about the fourth grade. Before that I went to Neill School,4 which wasHistory a grade school. There is senior housing on that land now. They tore down the ugly red brick building and built a nice new complex there.Oral Historical You gotta lead me on the way you want me to do this. KC: Okay, I will. MC: My dads came here. He was a musician and been traveling Rondo 1 Melvin W. Carter, Sr. , was born September 8, 1923. 2 Cathedral School was located at 238 Kellogg Blvd . and Mulberry Street. The school closed in the 1950's. The school building became the MinnesotaHayden Center-Catholic Diocese Education Center. 3Saint Peter Claver Catholic Church began in 1889. A new building was erected for the segregated Black congregation at 322 Aurora at Farrington in 1892. After the new school and convent were built, a new church building was completed at 375 Oxford at Saint Anthony in 1957. 4 Neill School , located on the northeast corner of Laurel and Farrington, was named for the first Board of Education member, Reverend E. D. Neill, The school was built in 1870 with eight classrooms. In 1884 the original building was demolished and replaced with a building costing $28,435.21 and housing 450 students. In 1962 the property was sold to the city for redevelopment as housing for the elderly, and are now known as the Neill Apartments. 5 Father Mym Grundy Carter was born September 30, 1877 and passed away November 25, 1958. 9 with the circus for years and was interested in music all his life. My father played with several different circus bands. He played the cornet. I have a picture from 1932 when my Uncle Mack6 played with a Barnum and Bailey Circus band. Another picture my uncle is in is with Arthur A. Wright's Band and Minstrels with the Sparks Show from 1914. My dad did the most traveling with Professor P. G. Lowrey's Colored Band and Troubandours with the Forepaugh Sells Bros. United Shows. I have a picture from 1904. My Uncle Mack is between the two woman singers and my dad is to the left of the singer with the longer dress. And about the time the Titanic7 sank the whole show went overseasProject right after that. And my dad quit because he was scared of drowning. HeSociety quit the show. What year was that? 1912, wasn't it? He would receive a lot of correspondenceHistory from the shows he was in after he quit. Guys would write him and send him pictures. Then the show would corne through here onceHistorical in a while and he would take the whole family to see theOral show and meet all the fellows he used to travel with. And then he would get pictures. KC: You said your dad carne here because your uncles were here. Rondo Minnesota 6 Mack Dade Carter was born 1879 and passed away May 3, 1943. 7The British luxury passenger liner Titanic sank on April 14-15, 1912, en route to New York City from Southampton , England, during its maiden voyage . The vessel sank with a loss of about 1,500 lives. 10 Project Society Prof. P. G. Lowrey's Colored Band and Troubandours with the Forepaugh Sells Bros. United Shows - Season 1904 Front row: Mym Carter is second from left, Mac Carter fourth from left MC: He wanted somewhere to go andHistory settle down where he could find work. I had one uncle who was working for the train station at the Union Depots in Saint Paul. He wasOral what they callHistorical a redcap9. And another one working at the packinghouse1o in South Saint Paul when it was very good work for unskilled people. So he came here and found work right away. I am not sure which place he worked because it was before I was born. I am the onlyRondo child born here. I think he got here in 1916 after a fire burned Paris Minnesota 8 Saint Paul Union Depot is located at 214 East Fourth Street on the southeast side of downtown . 9 Redcap Porters worked at the Saint Paul Union Depot. The uniform included a red cap, so as to be easily identifiable by passengers. Redcaps' salaries were minimal and they supported their families mostly through tips. Responsibilities included carrying baggage for travelers, mopping floors, polishing brass, parking cars, and cleaning offices. 10 Armour Packing Plant was located on Armour Avenue, about two blocks east of Concord Avenue in South Saint Paul. The plant was open from 1919 to 1979, and covered about 40 acres. Because this was one of the few industries that hired Blacks, many from Rondo took the streetcar to South Saint Paul. 11 Texas.u I was born in 1923. My folks were married in Texas. Ma said he was in the best band in Paris, Texas, that everybody always raved about. He was a big dog there. I would like to get something recorded about him because he was a very important person in my life. He gave me direction, which was hard to come by in those days. So I would like to get something on record about him. KC: Let's talk about your dad. MC: Well, he was the most important person to meProject because my mother 12 worked and he was a cripple. He got hurt in a car accident when I was a kid. He broke his leg, broke his kneecap, so he couldn'tSociety do any physical kind of work. He wasn't qualified to do anything other professionally than play music. So we spentHistory a lot of time together. To compensate he got a truck [and] we hauled furniture, hauled rubbish and ashes. I would do the work and he would do the bossing. He also bought a half an acre down on the MississippiOral River, Historical which is not an airport. KC: Saint Paul Downtown Airport?13 MC: Yes, just below there, where they are rebuilding all of that now. At that Rondotime a lot of people lived along the river because they could live there tax free, and there's a lot of little shacks there. And you could get the land for Minnesota 11 According to Mary Carter's account, Paris, Texas burned March 21 , 1916. Leaves were being burned and the wind quickly spread the fire. A large portion of the town burned to the ground. Mary Carter reports two men died, and many lost all their belongings, including Mary and her husband Mym Carter. Few had insurance to help them rebuild and many left town . In June Mr. Carter joined his brother in Saint Paul and Mrs. Carter and the children followed in August. This was the second great fire to destroy most of Paris, Texas. The first was August 2, 1877, when three quarters of businesses and many residences were destroyed. 12 Mother Mary Whitfield Carter was born July 7, 1886 and passed away July 14, 1982.