1273 KeP°rt °f the Commis- [ 2 MAY 1958 ] Scheduled Castes & 1274 sioner for Scheduled Tribes Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribe's has been appreciated. Nevertheless, there was a criticism that the nature of the Report' is the Friday, 2nd May 1958 same year after year. May I ask the House how do you expect us to change the nature of The House met at eleven of the •clock, MR. the Report? The nature of the Report is bound CHAIRMAN in the Chair. to remain the same until you and I step out JOINT COMMITTEE REPORT ON THE and change the nature of the work outside. PUBLIC PREMISES (EVICTION OF Sir, most of the Members who spoke in this UNAUTHORISED OCCUPANTS) House told us of the faults that lay on our BILL, 1958 side. May I Temind the Members that we SHRI P. N. SAPRU (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, I cannot correct all the faults that stand in the beg to present the Report of the Joint way of this gigantic task until the hon. Committee of the Houses on the Bill to Members give their share in the amelioration provide for the eviction of unauthorised and the Welfare of these people? occupants from public premises and for Anticipating the remarks, Sir, ■ in certain incidental .matters. yesterday's debate, I had explained almost all the points that I had thought would arise in the debate and, just as I have thought, POSTER PUBLISHED BY THE they MINISTRY OF RAILWAYS ' were the same points that Ve heard year after year—the commission and the omission and SHRI H. D. RAJAH (Madras): Sir, I want to the incompetent manner in which the bring to the notice of this 'House a ridiculous Government is fulfilling its task. What I poster published by the Ministry of Railways would have very much liked from the hon. regarding corruption. I want to place it on the Members is some alternative' suggestions as Table of th.2 House. It shows that ■4he to how to increase the tempo of the work, railway officials are put into prison in their how to change the pattern if it is not uniforms. Nowhere in our country a man is put satisfactory to you or to us, but I do not think in prison in his uniform. Everything is ulta in that any practical suggestion was offered. this country, and one of the ulta '•business is Criticism was offered but no alternative as to this. I want to place it •on the Table of the . how to do things either on the official or on House. I want ;to see that this ridiculous poster the non-official level and render a better is immediately withdrawn by our Ministry 01 account. Railways, as it is repugnant to our .standard of conceptions. SHRI H. N. KUNZRU (Uttar Pradesh): MR. CHAIRMAN: You put it on the Table. Such suggestions have been made in the past but they have been completely ignored by you. REPORT OF THE COMMISSIONER SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: I shall come to FOR SCHEDULED CASTES AND your point, Pandit Kunzru. I had said that the SCHEDULED TRIBES FOR THE Government itself could not fulfil this YEAR 1956-57—continued. programme cent per cent. Since such criticism THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME has been made as Pandit Kunzru has said, we AFFAIRS (SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA) : "Mr. have started an agency for evolution of.the Chairman, the whole day's debate yesterday work done from year to ; year. was both interesting and informative. It was gratifying to hear from Member after Member that the Report of the Commissioner for 18 RSD—1.

1276 Report of the Commis- [ RAJYA SABHA ] - Scheduled Castes & 1276 sioner for Scheduled Tribes SHRI N. R. MALKANI (Nominated): have also Bone certain things that are Independent agency or governmental agency? derogatory to the nation. There is nothing to be hidden in this respect. But from now on our SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: The governmental policy is that the missionary independent part of the agency Prof. Malkani work should apply to only one field, and that can supply. Everyone who is sitting * here is the social field. Gone are the' days of mass should take upon himself to give us conversions, even though conversions to information of what he has done, of what he Buddhism are taking place. That is a matter has been able to do in the country. I think that for the group of people concerned but we do agency would certainly supplement the not want that the underprivileged should be official agency that we have in the country exploited in this manner. We want to guarantee them that by free will only a person Then I said that the magnitude of the task can change his faith. Nevertheless, while should command from all of us a spirit of speaking of the missionaries, they have left dedication. It is this spirit of dedication, may I behind a trial of good record also which it is even say spirit of renunciation in some things, for us to emulate, and it is for us to follow in that would achieve for us the results that we their footsteps. We want more and more want to in this country in the'Second Five missionary spirited people. Without the Year Plan. missionary zeal we cannot achieve anything, Mr. Rajah from the other side as usual gave and that is why we should have to pick up the so many of his comments. He talked of the threads from where they have left over. It is a oneness of the nation. Who is to bring about happy augury that the Ramakrishna Mission - the oneness of the nation? Each citizen. He and the other private agencies in the country talked of intercaste marriages. Who is to are coming forward to undertake this task. propagate this cult of inter-caste marriages? It Nevertheless, it has grown both in its must be done on the individual level. Do you momentum and in its expension to be table to' expect the Government of to sponsor render an account which would satisfy any one intercaste marriages? You have to create the of us. atmosphere for it, and as I said yesterday, Then, I think one of the Members talked only education and a better standard of living- about reservation of seats. I had mentioned can create an atmosphere by which such yesterday in my opening remarks that this happy events would take place; not otherwise. subject would be looked into when the time Then some other Member mentioned about arrived. But the opinions here expressed are caste not being mentioned in the forms of from two angles: one, that reservation is of no application. I personally think that this should use and must be done away with, and the other, go now. We should have only one column; that reservation would have to be continued for the nationality column, and I do agree with some considerable period of time. However, the Members in the sentiments that they have reservation of seats, I may make myself clear, is expressed that the less and less we talk about going to solve no problem. In the days of the castes or write about castes the more and British we had reservation for the Muslims, for more we shall progress. the Christians and for others. It solved nobody's problem. It is only for these people to feel Then, Sir, the missionaries were brought in confident that they can sit in the councils with into this debate. We all know what the the non-Scheduled Tribes and Castes and ■ get missionaries have done and not done, and themselves heard, and for that the basic relief how they that we can give them to bring them to that level on which*

1277 Keport of the Commis- [ 2 MAY 1958 ] Scheduled Castes & 1278 sicraer for Scheduled Tribes they can talk on equal terms is socio- SHRI H. D. RAJAH (Madras): Cannot economic. That is why whether we extend this Government think of giving top priority to period of reservation or not, that task of socio- this work of introducing mechanised economic bringing up of these under- methods? privileged people must be carried out with faith and with purposeful activity from day to SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: Yes, we have day. asked each municipality to give it top priority and it is for hon. Members whenever they go It was Mr. Deokinandan Narayan who round to the cities and villages to see that talked about caste system in offices. I do not these municipalities take up this work. We say that it does not exist; but as I said, will have to help them. It is for them to orthodoxy dies hard just as poverty dies hard come forward and do the in this country. Therefore, it is for every right- job. thinking man in our offices to spread this > belief that there is no such caste system. The hon. Member also said that Government Next, I come to the remarks made by Prof. servants should take an oath. I do not know Wadia. Yesterday he suggested—and it is not the yalue of such an oath. He said they must the first time that he does it, I think it is the take an oath ■ and by that they must clear second time—that the nomenclature of "ex- their hearts and their minds. How can we do criminal tribes" should be changed and these that. Nevertheless; it is worth examining this people should be called "denotified tribes." suggestion for whatever it is worth. When this suggestion was made last time, it was passed on to the State Governments and Then, we come to the'problem of once again we have requested the States to scavenging. That is the most painful thing that examine it and see if the term "ex-criminal exists in India. But may I know what are your tribes" cannot be replaced by the expression practical suggestions? How are we going to "denotified tribes" which to me looks a. more improve the position? One hon. Member proper one. suggested bringing in a law by which scavenging will become an offence. So what? Another suggestion, that was made, is that Who will do your job? Are you ready as as far as this particular welfare work goes, it Gandhiji made his ashramites to do this? You should be handled in the States either by the have to be ready. And why should this Chief Minister or the Finance Minister or by scavenging job be done only by one caste? Is the Home Minister and that the Director of it not done in other lands? Maybe, they do not Harijan and Social Welfare should be an ex- carry the buckets on the head; nevertheless, it officio Secretary. In this respect also we have is done. If the nobler professions like nursing sent our comments to the States. It is for the and medical service can be undertaken, why States to respond. As I said, our States are should this job of scavenging also be not done autonomous. We can request them, and give in the most efficient manner by mechanised directions as we think proper. I do not blame methods? That is not unknown in the the States. They are also over-worked and progressive countries of the world and it is sometimes it does take time even foT done there. So, that also needs a correct consideration. There is delay but we are trying attitude and a different outlook. Nevertheless, to cut down the delay from year to year as this we have taken on hand this problem of work progresses. scavenging and allotted Rs. 6.62 lakhs to the municipalities who will undertake to make Then there was the suggestion that the new provisions for this unhealthy and Backward Classes Commission's Report has dehumanising work. not yet been discussed and that it should be discussed at an early 1279 RePort of the Commis- [ RAJYA SABHA ] Scheduled Castes & 1280 sioner for Scheduled Tribes [Shrimati Violet Alva.] date. As I explained only the Ramakrishna Mission would spread yesterday in my remarks, this Report has not all over the country much more .could be yet been discussed because the ad hoc survey done. But how-can it spread unless there are that was undertaken by the Deputy Registrar men and women coming forth for this task General of Census in Madras, West Bengal imbued with the proper spirit of sacrifice and and Bombay is now over and the report from renunciation? There it is. They were not ready these three States have come in. We are now when we asked them to undertake more work. examining these reports. It is only after that The Ramakrishna Mission was not then ready. that we can give some assurance that it is time But since 1955 they are now getting ready now, and with the data collected we should and they have asked for additional work that proceed with a debate in Parliament. they can do. They have their branch at Chirapunji and from the Home Minister's In the tribal areas, some hon. Members Discretionary Fund we have been able to give asked us to do something to stop the shifting them Rs. 40,000. Whatever scheme they will cultivation. We have done everything from submit we shall certainly examine not only our side and not only the Ministry of Home with care but also with great sympathy, Affairs but even the Ministry of Food and because we do believe that agencies and Agriculture has gone ahead with this private agencies of this sort especially, will programme. In Assam out of 60 centres that certainly be able to do better work than any have been sanctioned for the Plan period, they other agency. That is why we want to come have already started 16. In Orissa 4 centres forward to help such agencies as the have been started, one in Bihar, one in Andhra Ramakrishna Mission. and so on. Jhum cultivation or shifting cultivation is being done from time to time SHRI H. D. RAJAH: There is a dearth of and we are trying to settle these people at one genuine s..iriyasins. place. We try to wean them from this habit of moving from place to place and to make them SHRI N. R. MALKANI: Are they opening settle down at one place and do the' proper any additional centres in Assam? As far as I type of cultivation. For this purpose we have know, there are only two. even drawn up a plan of colonisation so that the people who do shifting cultivation need SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: They have sent not move after each harvest to a new place. us some schemes and they are being But all this takes time. This brings us also to examined. Additional schemes also will be the problem of communications, roads, tracks sent. and so on. These also take time because each Ministry steps in along with each State and to Everyone knows the provision in the co-ordinate all this takes a little more time Constitution and yet some hon. Members ask before we begin to march ahead. us as to why the Commissioner for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes should be The Ramakrishna Mission was mentioned looking after the safeguard's provided for here and it was said that we did not give them Anglo-Indians. It is a little too late now even sufficient allotments. It was in 1955 that the to enquire about this because the period for Government came forward and requested the which these safeguards have been granted to Ramakrishna Mission to take up more and the Anglo-Indians will expire in 1960 after more work, because everyone is agreed that which year the Commissioner for Scheduled the Ramakrishna Mission is doing splendid Castes and Scheduled Tribes will be engaged work. If only on the present main task with which he is occupied. 1281 Report of the Commis- [ 2 MAY 1958 ] Scheduled Castes & 1282 sioner for Scheduled Tribes It was Mr. Shankar Saran who talked about picture is not correct. Wo also.have stepped in the functions of the Commissioner for and tried to do our bit. It may be that when we Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and try to do a big thing somewhere the schemes the Assistant Commissioners. do not come through as we wculd like or as we would visualise, but nevertheless, we have, SHRI H. .N. KUNZRU: Mr. Mahesh Saran. wherever there have been these project schemes put out, suggested to the States that SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: I am sorry, Mr. not only land be' given to these people but that Mahesh Saran. The Constitution has laid down priority should be given to the tribals so the functions of the Commissioner for displaced and that they should be taken up as Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and of labourers in these projects, etc. When the the Assistant Commissioners. He has done it to evaluation work is completed, we ; ill be able the best of his ability and capacity from year to to say as to what actuauy has happened from year and the honourable House is satisfied with place to place. He mentioned about Sindri. his work. He goes round, he discusses and Damodar Valley Corporation, Hirakud and the reports to the President. That Report comes other places. Then, there are tribals who before us for being discussed. An additional migrate from one State to the other. One such task has been entrusted to him which I have problem has arisen where the tribals have already mentioned, namely, the evaluation migrated from Bihar to Assam. Assam is work of the welfare schemes in the different prepared to. consider them only as tea garden parts of the country. That is an additional task labour because its argument is that these for which additional appointments are made, people are not there to settle but that they have namely, the ' Assistant Commissioners, so that gone there for labour and for wages. However, a proper evaluation could be made and a we have taken up even this issue with the concrete picture placed before us from time to Assam Government and have asked as to why time in the future. these people should not be considered on the same basis as the other indigenous tribals in The delay in discussing this Report is Assam. We should be able to get a reply from regretted but how can it be earlier than this Assam very soon and in any case, when a tribe when the Report was submitted only on the moyes from one place and settles down in 30th May, 1957 'to the Ministry and presented another plac?, it should be very seriously to the Parliament on the 5th December, 1957? considered because a tribe is a tribe. The Even then, the Lok Sabha debated on this difference arises only when the person goes to Report on the 18th and the 19th of last month. the other side of the border to engage himself I do not think, therefore, the grievance on in some kind of labour and wants to get back account of delay is justified. Nfever-theless, I in which case, I do not think it is right for us to must assure the House that we have greater ask-the State concerned to consider them as and greater optimism that the Report will not tribals belonging to that State. However, if the be delayed so much in years to come. other factor is correct, then the question should be examined and justice should be I now come to Shri Bodra. He talked of the done. land that was submerged, the land that was taken away by the project schemes and the Sir, we come now to another Member's manner in which the people have been thrust suggestion that the Scheduled Tribes living out. There may be some genuine grievance outside the specific areas should be given the but I do not think the picture is correct in all same facilities as are admissible to those its aspects. The

1283 Report of the Commis- [ RAJYA SABHA ] Scheduled Castes & 1284 sioner for Scheduled Tribes [Shrimati Violet Alva.] living within the SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: But this sum of specified areas. Instructions have gone to the three lakhs of rupees is the maximum of the States for examining this suggestion, but the allotments. I am not disputing the fact problem has to be viewed in the correct whether it is enough or not enough but today perspective. We can only examine this thing the Harijan Sevak Sangh gets three lakhs of from the point of view of the facilities and rupees and we are prepared to consider . . concessions with the exception of . representation in Legislatures and reservation in S2rvices which are meant only for the SHRI N. R. MALKANI: Thank you, I am tribes as scheduled in the Scheduled Tribes very grateful. and Scheduled Castes Orders (Amendment) Act, 1956, and' do whatever we can. SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: . . . if they Otherwise, this also becomes a separate propose any definite schemes as to how this problem, separate from the problem that we allotment could be increased and magnified. If are discussing today. they are able to carry on and spread their work more, we are prepared to consider the I have already explained about the multi- allotting of greater sums. Besides, I want to purpose projects and I must now add that tell Prof. Malkani that generally our condition from the Centre we are prepared to spend in is that we give grants when matching grants the remaining three years about a lakh of come from the private agencies but, in the rupees to deal with Jhum cultivation stage by case of the Harijan Sevak Sangh, we have not stage and scheme by scheme. Nevertheless, asked for matching grants of the order of 25 this falls within the purview of the Ministry of per cent, or 50 per cent. We have not asked Food and Agriculture who also have not slept fox any matching grant at all. We want them over it in the sense that they are now carrying to expand and so we have given them three on research, and demonstration on improved lakhs of rupees. If they want thirteen or thirty agricultural practices for the tribal areas. lakhs, likewise they must submit their Secondly, they are teaching them how to grow scheme's also and then, I assure the House, and supply seeds and seedlings of suitable that will receive sympathetic consideration crops to these tribes so that they benefit by the because we do beMeve in private agencies permanent cultivation that these tribals are carrying on work more and more in the taking up and, thirdly, to train up people in country. soil conservation practices. The Central Soil Conservation Board also has come forward to I come now to the delay in the help us in this problem of permanent implementation of the programme. This is a cultivation for the tribals in different parts of complaint of the past; no more is it true that the hills. delay occurs. There will be no delays from this year because we have taken certain steps Now, Sir, we come to another organisation by which we keep in direct touch not only which the hon. Mr Malkani mentioned, with the Chief Ministers of the different States namely, the Harijan Sevak Sangh. He said but also with their Directorates of Welfare as yesterday. "Give fifty lakhs of rupees and to how the schemes are being implev mented. they will do the job." The Harijan Sevak And we have told them that they need not Sangh today gets the maximum allotment. wait for budgeting and allotment from the Centre because 50 per cent, ceiling is granted SHRI N. R. MALKANI: It is only three by the States and therefore they should carry lakhs out of a crora of rupees. on the work connected with certain schemes *

1285 Report of the Commis- [ 2 MAY 1958 ] Scheduled Castes & 1286 sioner for Scheduled Tribes that have been laid down, and that will not be and I may ask the hon. Member whether he altered from year to year. Those schemes believes in the principle and not the places. should go ahead without waiting for next Then certainly he should exert his influence in year's budgeting. the right, direction. It is no use coming to this House and asking the Government to fulfil its It was Mr. Anand Chand who said that an promises for the simple reason . that the attempt was being made to increase the number Government cannot do everything unless they of Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribes, get the backing of the Members here and the which • was not desirable. No attempt is being people outside. made to increase or decrease the list. There is on the one hand the •complaint that we are Now, about Bilaspur he talked of the decreasing the list. Now, his complaint is that housing problem of the harijan families. He we are increasing the list. We are in a dilemma. should be more aware than I am that When Parliament discussed the Scheduled something is being done for these people. A Tribes and Scheduled Castes Orders new township is coming up there and the (Amendment) Bill, 1956, we assured the House Government has a plan to have a township that we would ask the States to make their even for the harijan families. It is too comprehensive recommendations, and when premature for him to say that nothing is being those recommendations come to -the Centre a done. I wish hon. Members would realise Bill would be drafted "for a comprehensive list what they say. of the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, and that Bill would be presented to both the SHRI ANAND CHAND: There is no Houses, and both the Houses could, after a' scheme sanctioned as yet for the hari-jans. I debate, decide what they, want to do with the was in the Home Ministry this morning. They list, whether it should be increased or say the matter is still being examined. decreased. It will be in the hands of Parliament. SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: So, what I said Then he made a pointed reference to his before this House was not any statement. I own place Bilaspur, which is going to be only said what was a fact. If the matter is submerged. He talked of temples, of how one being examined it will be taken up tomorrow. temple is polluted and another temple is Where the harijans are suffering every town- raised. May I ask the hon. Member as to what ship has an allotment for a colony for the he has done to prevent this atmosphere being harijans and he at least being an ex-ruler created? should know his own State. Also, we would SHRI ANAND CHAND (Himachal like to know from these ex-rulers what they Pradesh): I did not say about. Bilaspur. I said did for the harijans. about the Viswanath temple at Banaras. SHRI V. K. DHAGE (Bombay): I SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: I am sorry I do not think it is a proper made a mistake about places, but when he remark under the circumst- mentions this subject may I know what effort ances. The question is of the Report of the he has made •to stop this affair? Commissioner for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. We are not here SHRI ANAND CHAND: In Bilaspur the considering as to what the rulers did and what harijans have entry into the temples. they did not do.

SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: I might SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: I am not saying mention the other place now. Places don't anything in that context by itself. I am saying matter; today principles matter, it in the context that he has created in connection with this Report. 1287 Report of the Commis- [ RAJYA SABHA ] Scheduled Castes & 1288. sioner for Scheduled Tribes SHRI JASWANT SINGH () ): But cribed in law courts. Sometimes they take what are the present rulers doing, may I ask? very long and sometimes they take very little time. But-this is the picture as I know of SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: Some of them Rajasthan. are here in the Parliament. Then, Sir, I come to the hon. Member, Pandit Kunzru. He talked Then he talked of the north Mikir Hills and of the Scheduled areas. I shall not comment the Garo Hills in Assam. These Hills are in the on this— I do not want to take very much Central sector. We don't usually give others time—because the provision in che Fifth any assistance except on a 50-50 bas:s, but Scheduled is clear and it is there in the here Rs. 4-69 crores have been allotted for the Constitution, and accordingly these Scheduled development of these areas, for these areas get the consideration as provided in the autonomous districts of Assam, in the Central Constitution. sector. We have the 50:50 condition that we attach in other' places. And besides the Central Now, I come finally to the other points allotment of four crores odd of rupees, the- raised by Pandit Kunzru. Pandit Kunzru told State sector has to provide seven crores odd of us that the hon. the Home Minister should rupees for this very purpose of the from time to time take up this problem with development of these autonomous districts of the Chief Ministers of the States. We do take Assam. it up from time to time. We also called a Ministers' Conference very recently, and the Now, the last speaker, Mr. Lingam, came Home Minister of all the people is the most back to education. We are all agreed on the active Minister in working for the welfare of point that education is the basic need for any these people. If we did not want to seek their group of people if they want to advance and if co-operation or co-ordination we would not they want to enjoy their privileges. Now, he have these advisory boards at the Centre and said something about the need for allocating in the States followed by the State Ministers' large sums of money for scholarships. They Conference, followed by the consultative are being given by the Ministry of Education. committees for the Scheduled Castes and The Scheduled Castes get. 88 odd lakhs of Scheduled Tribes and followed also by the rupees, the Scheduled Tribes get 15 odd lakhs various other activities at all levels in the of rupees and other Backward Classes get 83 States and at the Centre. odd lakhs of rupees. It comes to about 187 lakhs of rupees. It is true, however, that some He talked of Rajasthan where the of the students do have grievances, but then population of three lakhs of Scheduled Tribes this .is a mighty problem. You cannot say that has gone up to sixteen lakhs. May I tell the every student that comes along must get. They hon. Pandit Kunzru that even the allotments are being examined, but our funds are limited that were made in the past have not been utili- and some sort of grievance is always going to sed by Rajasthan yet? be there with the best efforts that the Government or the private agency will make. SHRI H. N. KUNZRU: Hear, hear. SHRI N. -M. LINGAM (Madras): But my SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: Therefore, it is point was that thousands of pupils belonging only after that is done that we shall step to the Backward Classes went without forward to assist them more. But. I do say that scholarships. after the States Reorganisation there arose some little problems, which did not straighten SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: That may be out immediately, and there cannot be any true,. Sir, and yesterday I said that even 80 period of thirty days or sixty flays fixed for per cent, of India might be called backward, the purpose as is pres- k^ that case why thousands, even ten thousands may go 1289 Report of Committee [ 2 MAY 1958 ] of Privileges 7290 without scholarships. Even then we are trying Well, Sir, most of the points that have been to give the benefit to the Backward Classes as raised have been covered but nevertheless it is far as we can. I do not know the exact details, necessary that we should double our efforts but if the hon. Member desires me to give him and do something because the second year of the details I shall get them from the Ministry the Plan period is already out. Sir, ill fares the of Education and supply him. land where caste system exists, ill fares the land where cas-teism prevails and unless we SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN (Andhra condemn it, it is not going to take us to the Pradesh): The point was that they don't get it goal of our dream. at the proper time.

SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: To that also, Sir, yesterday I said in my opening remarks REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE OF that we had introduced a new system by PRIVILEGES which we make ad hoc payments to the institutions so that the scholars do not suffer SHRI S. V. KRISHNAMOORTHY in their academic career or they are not RAO (Mysore): Sir, I move: thrown out of the colleges for nonpayment of. fees. I said this in my opening remarks "That the First Report of the Committee yesterday. of Privileges laid on the Table of the House on the 1st may, 1958, be taken into Now, I come to the hon. Shri P. N. Sapru. consideration." He talked of legal assistance. In the matter of legal assistance he showed us a new avenue. All the matters arising in the case have been He said that bar associations should be stated in the Report. This has arisen out of an awakened. I thinly it is a very good idea, that election case pending before an Election the right-minded social workers among the bar Tribunal in Bengal. The Secretary of this members should come forward to help these House has been summoned to produced people. There is nothing wrong and I think certain documents and the matter has been this also should be encouraged in the country. fully considered in the Privileges Committee. After all in this honourable House and in the We have gone through the usages and rules other august House there are so many lawyers prevalent in other Commonwealth countries,, who are practising lawyers, and if they only the House of Commons, the House of made up their minds that they could do this Representatives and the Senate in America, much for these people this year and next year and having considered all these things we have and so on, then I think the task could very made certain suggestions for all contingencies, well be undertaken. both when the House is sitting and when the House is not in session. We have not exactly SHRI H. D. RAJAH: Why this distinction of followed the rules that are prevalent in the honourable House and august House? other Houses but we have made our own suggestions. There is nothing controversial in AN HON. MEMBER: You are also a lawyer. this Report and submit that the House may - take into consideration. I do not think there is any other matter that needs further elucidation. SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA: I used to be a practising advocate once but I have given- it MR. CHAIRMAN: Motion moved: up for a long time. Nevertheless, if they want any advice and if they can take the risk, I am "That the First Report of the Committee prepared to give it. of Privileges laid on the Table of the House on the 1st May, 1958, be taken into consideration."