375i Motion regarding [17 DEC. 1963] for Linguistic 3752 Report of Commissioner Minorities

(Amendment) Bill, 1963, as passed by Lok MOTION RE REPORT OF COM- Sabha at its sitting held on the 16th MISSIONER FOR LINGUISTIC December, 1963." MINORITIES—continued.

Sir, I lay the Bill on the Table. MR. CHAIRMAN: We shall now take up the discussion on the Report of the Commissioner tor Linguistic Minorities. The Minister had completed his speech yesterday. Now any Member desiring to speak can do so.

MOTION RE REPORT OF COMMIT- SHRI P. N. SAPRU (UUar Pradesh): Mr. TEE OF PRIVILEGES Chairman, I would like to congratulate the Commissioner for Linguistic Minorities on SHRIMATI VIOLET ALVA (Mysore): ■Sir, his Report. It is a comprehensive document I beg to move: and the most valuable parts of the document are the appendices attached to it. I feel that he "That the Filth Report of the Committee has placed before us the constitutional issues of Privileges presented to the Rajya Sabha involved in regard to this question of on the 16th December, 1963, be taken intd linguistic minorities" in a very able manner consideration." and it is unnecessary for me, therefore, to go into the constitutional issues raised by the Sir, in the report that I presented to this existence of these linguistic minorities. I House yesterday, it was stated that the would like to confine my remarks to a few privilege matter involved certain legal issues. points relating to a language which is the I would therefore like to apprise the House of common inheritance of Hindus and Muslim-; the position be'fore asking for longer t|me to Christians and Anglo-Indians have also present the final report. The matter arises out contributed to it. It is an Indian language. It is of statements contained in an affidavit filed in not a foreign language. It is not the language connection with a contempt application of Pakistan. It is a language of India. It grew pending before the Bombay High Court. It has up round about the town of Delhi, and not been possible for us to ascertain as to therefore, it is permissible for us to have some when the application would fee disposed of in enthusiasm and some love for this language, the Bombay High Court and therefore a for this common heritage. Sir, the Rcpmt preliminary i report Was presented and We shows that there are Governments which have asked the House to give us more time to pre- taken a liberal view of their obligations sent the final report. towards this language, I mean Urdu. I would like to mention Andhra Pradesh. I think Kerala has a good record and so has, for that The question was put and the motion was matter, Bihar. But I must confess that I am not adopted. entirely satisfied with the position that this language occupies in my own State of Uttar SHRJCMATI VIOLET ALVA: I move: Pradesh, and the Commissioner in restrained language has drawn attention to some acts of "That the House agrees with the omission on the part of the Government of recommendation contained in the Report", Uttav Pradesh with regard to this language. Sir, one of th« points that I would like to The question was put and the motion was make is this. The Chief Minis- adopted.

3753 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3754 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri P. N. Sapru.] tors' Conference has see any reason why we should not get suggeseted that for recruitment to the acquainted with Greek, or Latin or State Services the lack of knowledge of HeDrew. But Sanskrit, of course, I know Hindi should be no bar and that would play a very great part. According proficiency tests in English and Hindi to the policy followed by the U.P. should be held after the competition is Government, the classical language is to held and during the period of probation. be Sanskrit, unless the parents wish But for one reason or the other, Uttar otherwise. But there is to be no special Pradesh Government has not yet carried arrangement for any other language. If out this recommendation. We are told they want to substitute some other that this recommendation is under the language for Sanskrit, then they must be consideration of the U.P. Government. content with the existing staff. This We do not know how long that period of practically rules out any other language, waiting is to be. and it places Urdu also in a specially [THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN in the Chair] difficult position. In Azamgarh, this rule has been made compulsory and it works Next I would like to say a few words hardship on those Hindus and Muslims about the three-language formula. This there, because Hindus too would like to three-language formula may be all right, get acquainted with the culture of the though I am one of those who see no Arab world or the Iranian world. It places reason why there should not be a four- the Hindus and Muslims at a language formula. In European countries, disadvantage. students have to acquaint themselves with Latin, Greek, French and German. Most Another recommendation of the Chief of the candidates who reach up to the Ministers' Conference was that there higher secondary stage are acquainted should be provision at the Primary stage with these languages. T do not think it for the teaching of the mother tongue. will be a burden for our students to have The directive on this point was quoted by even four languages. But now let us take Mr. Hajarnavis. The rule suggested by the this three-language formula. The three- States Reorganisation Commission was language formula means that the student that there should be provision for a langu- must know his mother-tongue; he must age other than the regional language or know his regional language, he must Hindi, where there are morc than 40 know a modern Indian language, and he students in a school or 10 students in a must know Hindi. Now, the regional class. In Azamgarh, for example, there is language in UP. is Hindi, and so far as a a sizeable Muslim population and as far modern Indian language is concerned, as I have been able to see, there is not a Sanskrit has also been included among single Urdu teacher. Moreover, the effort the modern Indian languages according to has been to confine the operation of this the d'reclicn of the Director of Education. rule district-wise. There are few districts So far as the Prime Minister is concerned, where Urdu is the language—Moradabad, he stated in a speech which he made some Bijnor, Muzaffarnagar, BulandsLahar and time back that Sanskrit would not be in- Rampur. There the position is all right. cluded among modern Indian languages. I But there are other large towns and small am one of those who have got a great towns where there is no provision for any regard for classical languages. I think no Urdu teacher and it is expected that if education can be comolete without a Urdu is to be taught, it will be taught by knowledge of the humanities and one of the teachers already in humanities mean the study of the classics. employment. This practically rules out Sanskrit is not the only classical language Urdu altogether and it places the parents in India. There are other classical of those who want their children to read languages also which have a claim. There Urdu at a disadvantage. Is Persian. There is Arabic, and I do not Recommendations have been made by the Klrpalani Committee that encouragement should be given

3755 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3756 Report of Commissioner Minorities to maqtabs and old institutions like the of Urdu that even those who do not patshala and we should like to know what is understand it appreciate it most. being done m regard to that. Though the Chief SHRI M. RUTHNASWAMY Ministers were not in favour of it, my -view is that the district-wise formula if not quite just (Madras): Even those who speak it badly. to the minorities and I think we should take SHRI P. N. SAPRU: I am not so poetic as the tehsil as the unit and, therefore, provision my hon. friend, Mr. Anwar and poetry and should be made for the teaching of Urdu at the myself are farther from each other. Primary stage in tehsils where there is a size- able proportion of Urdu-speaking population. Another rule which, I think works hardship A suggestion which was made in the Fourth on the Urdu-speaking population is this. For Report of the Commissioner for Linguistic examinations connected with the Uttar minorities was that in order to be able to know Pradesh Civil Service and other combined whether the number forty in a school or ten in examination* —Mr. Nafisul Husan will a class would be forthcoming or ):iot, a correct me if I am wrong—you can answer register should be opened but no step has yet your papers either in English or Hindi. Urdu is been taken to fulfil this requirement. not recognised for that purpose, and not only Therefore, 1 think it would not be incorrect to that, you have to offer Hindi as a compulsory say that Urdu has been receiving a little more subject at that stage. Now, I quite appreciate than stepmotherly treatment and it is not right, that the position of Hindi is somewhat unique it is not just that in a secular State like ours in the sense that it is going to be the link there should be any feeling of discrimination language of the future and those who enter against a language which is the common our services should have a fair knowledge of inheritance of both Hindus and Muslims and Hindi but we used to have in the old days, in Christians and Anglo-Indians. the British days, a civil servant who used to come to this country without any knowledge J remember Madam, an incident that took of the Indian languages used to be posted to place in the United Nations and 1 wil] just Uttar Pradesh and he used to learn in a few relate that. In 1954, I happened to be in the months Urdu or Hindi and it was at the stage United States in connection with the session of when his probation period was about to end the General Assembly and I wag talking to a that he was required to pass an examination in friend from Pakistan in Urdu and an American Urdu or Hindi and obtain a certificate of merit gentleman sitting next to us asked us, what in the particular language. I think, Madam, the language we were talking to which the proper thing is not to insist that candidates Pakistani gentleman said "Urdu" and compli- must have a knowledge of Hindi at the time of mented me on my excellent Urdu. I told him their examinations. The proper thing is to that I would have appreciated this compliment insist that they should have a knowledge of had it come from one whose language was Hindi before they are actually confirmed. Urdu because he was a gentleman from I would also like, Madam, in this Maharashtra who had migrated to Pakistan and connection, to refer to a language which is not his Urdu was poor. I would have appreciated included in the Eighth Schedule but which is this compliment had it come from one whose important, having regard to the fact that owing language was Urdu. It is my language and, to circumstances over which they had no therefore, if I speak it fairly correctly, I can control, many Sindhis have had to migrate to take ■ rio credit for doing so. Uttar Pradesh and other States. There is no provision, hardly nnv provision, for th^ SHRI N. M. ANWAR (Madras): I think, teaching of Sindhi in our schools and Madam, it is the unique beauty Sindhi 3757 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3758 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri P. N. Sapru.] parents have a should be no domiciliary restriction. But legitimate grievance in this matter. I the States have got over this by using the hope, Madam, this will be looked into. language as the means of restricting the The position of Sindhi is very much like admission of persons who do not belong that of the Nepali language. We know to the State into their services. This is that Nepali is not one of the languages contrary to the spirit of the Constitution included in the Eighth Schedule but I and it should be resisted strongly by the think some special arrangements have Centre. been made for this language in some districts where there is a sizeable Nepali- With these remarks of a casual nature I speak-in population. should like to express once again my appreciation of the excellent work which Then Madam, I would like to say a characterises the Report of the word or two about tribal education. One Commissioner for Linguistic Minorities. of the difficulties connected with It is a thorough Report, a report to which education of these tribal languages is that he has given thought and we are indebted they have no script of their own. to him for presenting a true picture of things ag they are in the country. You can use the Devanagari script for teaching them the tribal languages or you SHRI D. B. DESAI (Maharashtra): First I must express my gratefulness to the can use the Roman script for that Government that this Report has reached purpose. In this matter I think, we have to and has been taken up for discussion this be liberal-minded. We must consult in year because last year we could not this matter the wishes of the tribal people discuss this Report. Seven years after themselves. It may be easier for them— reorganisation we can definitely say that some of them would like to go beyond the plight of the linguistic minorities in the secondary stage, to the university the country has not improved to any stage—to learn one alphabet. The ascertainable extent. Firstly I should say greatest difficulty in learning a language that the problem of the linguistic minori- is not the language itself; the greatest ties has been created by the reorgani- difficulty in learning a language is the sation of the States especially in the alphabet and it may be that the Roman southern States, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, script has been rather summarily ruled Maharashtra, Gujarat, Andhra Pradesh, out for purposes of educating th e tribal Kerala and Madras. There are two types people. of linguistic minorities. In every State there are bound to be certain linguistic So far as Urdu is concerned, in our minorities because from time province at one time many documents or immemorial certain people have gone for most of the documents of a legal their business to different places. They character used to be written in Urdu. have gone there for service and in the That is not the case now; but it should be course of history they have been, say, possible—and I think it is possible under absorbed in the local population. The the existing conditions—for petitions to other type is the minorities that have been be presented in Urdu and there, should be created as a result of the reorganisation of special arrangements to help the litigants the States and these minorities residing for this to be done. on the common borders of the States I should like to say, just before I have a very peculiar problem. Of course conclude a word against domiciliary these minorities could have been reduced restrictions on the employment of people by a correction of the boundaries but that in various States. It is the proud beast of is not the subject for discussion now. But our Constitution that there is no dual I may say that the majorities in the citizenship. In the United States as we particular areas have been turned into know there is dual citizenship but here minorities in the vast unilingual States. there is nt dual citizenship and therefore Madam, as we cant there

3759 Motion, regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3760 Report of Commissioner Minorities see, there is not a single State in this but now with the official policy of the country which has a population which can State we can see that Kannadisatioa is --; be called completely unilinguai. :ng on by leaps and bounds. According to the States Reorganisation Commission if in a State 70 per c of the population speak one language then it SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: should be called a unilinguai State. Now, (Mysore): What about the schools? none of the States in j the country can be called unilinguai but one thing is quite SHRI D. B. DESAI: I will give you all clear that all the States have been formed the details and the other facts also. What on the tiasis of language and therefore it I want to emphasize here is, seven years is quite likely, and it is also a reality, that after reorganisation can we say that the almost all the States are making efforts to difficulties of the linguistic minorities make their regional language as the have been reduced? I am certainly of the official language of the State. opinion that they have not been reduced. In Mysore recently the State Go- On the contrary, the plight of the lin- vernment has declared that Kannada is to guistic minorities has increased, be the official language of the State. In especially in Mysore State. It is very Madras Tamil is going to be the official difficult for the linguistic minorities to language; in Andhra Telgu and so also in continue their language, continue their Maharashtra and Gujarat. The regional education, continue their existence, their languages are going to be the official life in the State, as we are experiencing in languages of the States. So the first the present conditions. I may say that the problem is whether the interests of the Commissioner for Linguistic Minorities, minorities will be safeguarded in the who is appointed under the Constitution, various States in the matter of official use is supposed to investigate it. "It shall be of their language. I come from Belgaum the duty of the Special Officer to and so I can speak with first-hand investigate all matters relating to the information and inform the House that safeguards provided for linguistic here we are faced with a very peculiar minorities under the Constitution and hurdle. The State of Mysore is trying to report to the President upon those matters Kan-nadise the entire population on the at such intervals as the President may borders. I will quote an instance. In 1905 direct." I want to know from the the first Kannada officer Came to Government what procedure, what Belgaum as a District Collector. By the method of investigation has been first stroke he ordered that the land followed by the Commissioner, whether records of the city of Belgaum shall be in the Commissioner has visited any Kannada. Since then the land records are linguistic minority area in the country or kept in Kannada. The Kannada-speaking whether the Commissioner has forwarded population which was 8 per cent, in the letters of complaints received by him Belgaum city in 1905 is now 23 per cent, from various minority organisations and and according to the 1961 Census it minority people. might be about 25 per cent. This is the sort of instance to show how the official State policy c?n be used to liquidate the SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: May I linguistic minorities. Formerly it was one interrupt the hon. Member for just a single officer. The former Government of minute? A complaint was received from Bombay was not a linguistic State with the Maharashtrians in Belgaum regarding Marathi, Kannada or Gujarati. So it could a school. The Commissioner has gone not con act this positi'on into it at great length and he has supported with facts and figures that there is no discrimination against Marathi. 3761 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3762 Report of Commissioner Minorities "The complaint was investigated and it SHRI D. B. DESAI: I will just give from the was found that whereas on 1st November Commissioner's Report evidence for the 1956 there were 783 Marathi schools with discrimination. The last Commissioner, Mr. 81,289 pupils and 2,221 teachers therein, Malik, had been to Bangalore and a number of the number of such schools rose to 868 ith States. My point is whether the Commissioner 110,334 pupils and 3,046 teachers as on 1st has actually visited the areas of minorities. We April 1961." can find that he has not. Even the new Commissioner, Mr. Chanda, had announced I may request the hon. Member to read his programme to visit Belgaum, but page 184 of the Report. subsequently it turned out that he had SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: I have read cancelled his programme. We do not know that. why. On the contrary, we got information that the Mysore Government did not provide any SHRI D. B. DESAI: There he has given facilities for the Commissioner to reach statistics as in 1960-61 regarding Marathi Belgaum. If that is the case, then it is very language in Mysore State. The total number difficult for the Commissioner also to of schools indicated here is 769 and the Com- investigate these things. I want to emphasise missioner says it is 868. Actual statistics show one thing. If the Commissioner is authorised that it is 769 schools with some 1,00,500 or is expected to investigate these complaints, students. then, is it going to be only on complaints? SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: What is the Suppose there are no organisations in the percentage of Marathi population and what is minorities, then who is to complain? The the percentage of schools they have, ordinary man has to go after his food first. He compared to the total number of schools? has to go after the needs of his daily life. Can What is the percentage of Telugu population he go to the Commissioner? Can he write to there and what is the percentage of Teiugu the Commissioner day in and day out making schools they have? If at all there is any complaints? If there are no organisations then complaint, the Telugus must have a the complaints are bound to lapse. complaint, not Maha-rashtrians. Automatically there will be no complaints and the Commissioner will have no work. After SHRI D. B. DESAI: All right. Let the seven years we can find from this Report and Telugus complain. the Report indicates that he has undertaken no SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: You have no trips in the various States. He has only visited grievance. the headquarters of the States. So, I want to request the Home Ministry to provide certain SHRI D. B. DESAI: The complaint is machinery, provide certain procedure for the already here. I want to know whether the investigation of complaints, namely, whether investigating authority has been supplied with the safeguards have been applied to the the correct information or not The Report says linguistic minorities and whether they are al- there are 863 schools, but the actual statistics which have been supplied to the ready safeguarded. Commissioner show that 793 schools are there. My point is that the investigation procedure or the method of investigation is Another point I want to make out here is faulty or there is no procedure or method. regarding Mysore. We may go through this Again, I can give you a number of instances. I Report. On page 54 in para 332 it says: — may ask the hon. Minister here whether he can say with some authority that the School Board of Mysore State has started any single school in the last seven years. The

3763 Motion regarding [ 17 D3C. 1968 ] for Linguistic 3764 Report of Commissioner Minorities School Board has started no schools. On the ernnient or if he can ascertain from the contrary, private organisations and individuals Minister here, he will definitely see that such have started Marathi primary schools in orders were sent to the education societies? Belgaum, Dharwar and Bidar. Subsequently, after two or three years, because of various SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: YOU have complaints, with a threat to go to the High got the circulars there in the appendix. You Court; we could get those schools recognised. read them.

SHRI D. B. DESAI: YOU get that SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY. ...ere is no ascertained from the Minister. The question is School Board in Mysor~ :' all. whether the interests of the linguistic

+ minorities in respect of educational facilities, SHRI D. B. DESAI: Perhr— he hou. the Maratni-speaking people of Belgaum, Member does not know. Dharwar and Bidar, have been safeguarded. I can positively say and with specific SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: In the information on hand I can positively claim integrated areas there were School Hoards. that the Marathi-speaking people have been ill-treated, have been receiving step-motherly SHRI D. B. DESAI: Now, there are School treatment at the hands of the Mysore Boards. Perhaps the hon. Member should Government. That is one important point I ascertain. I am from. Belgaum. I know it very have to make out here. well. There is the municipal School Board. There is the district School Board in every Another point is about education at the district, in Belgaum, Karwar, Dharwar and secondary stage. Generally in Mysore Bijapur. There is the School Board and the + secondary education is conducted by non- School Board conducts he schocls. Even after official or private societies, but there are the elections of the Taluka Development certain schools formerly conducted by the Boards and District Boards—according • to Government. the new Act primary education is to be transferred to the Taluka Boards, but till now THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You have no decision has been taken. The District already taken 15 minutes. You may take Boards continue as they were. So, I want to another five minutes. The House stands say that in the last seven years not a single adjourned till 2.30. primary Marathi school has been started by the District School Board or by other The House adjourned for lunch authorities in the border areas. On the at one of the Clock. contrary, private organisations started schools and subsequently got them recognised and even then there are certain difficulties. There are two private organisations conducting The House reassembled after Lunch at half primary scnools in Belgaum district. One is EPUTY HAIRMAN < past two of the clock, The D C the '8hetakari Shikshan Samati" and the other in the Chair. is the "Belgaum PrathamiC Shikshan Samiti". The Mysore Government has ordered that SHRI D. B. BESAI: Madam Deputy unless they introduce Kannada in the primary Chairman, when the House rose for lunch, I schools they will not be given grants. May I was dealing with the secondary stage of remind the hon. Member here that if he can education regarding the linguistic minorities, ascertain from the Gov- that is, the Marathi-speaking people of 839 RSD—4. Belgaum. I was referring to the instance of Sardar High School, one of the very old High Schools in Belgaum. It is a Government High School. Now

3765 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3766 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri D. B. Desai.J ths Government 27 students appearing for M.A. with has taken a decision that the High School Marathi. This year we had only 3 should be closed, that the buildings and students. That means they have started to other things should be giv>n to abolish Marathi completely from Polytechnic, and that the Polytechnic educational institutions, and this is the building should be given away to K.L.E. fate of the Marathi students in that area. Society for starting a Medical College. Our point is that this H-gh School had a THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: How do majority of Marathi-speaking students the three students appear? You said that from its very inception. The Government students were not appearing with Marathi tried to reduce the number by not language. supplying teachers or supplying rather very inefficient teachers I may say, but SHRI D. B. DESAI: Only three are still the majority could not be reduced. appearing this year. Because the They have now taken a decision to close Karnatak University has made Marathi as the High School entirely. optional from the inception from the first year of the Degree course, therefore, The second instance to which I would automatically it is discouraged. In one or like to refer is this. The Commission has two colleges, that is Lingaraj College and referred to one of the important decisions R.P.D. College they started Marathi. of the South Zonal Council, which is that From the Dharwar College Marathi is the facilities for the English medium in abolished. the secondary schools as they existed on 1st July 1958 should be ascertained and Then I come to the official use of continued without change for the benefit Marathi. Formerly the Bombay High of the children of the linguistic minorities Court and the Bombay Government had and migratory students. There is the case given specific instructions that Belgaum of the St. Paul's High School in Belgaum. and karwar should be treated as bilingual A letter from one of the parents has been districts. In the Belgaum district as a referred to in the report. There the whole 26 per cent of the population speak students who spoke Marathi were Marathi. But in Belgaum taluka the allowed to take Marathi as an optional Marathi-speaking people are 52 per cent; subject. Now the school authorities in in Khanapur 53 per cent; in Chikodi 36 concurrence with the State administration per cent or so. After the declaration of the have imposed Kannada and abolished State Government that Kannada shall be Marathi a their optional subject. That has the official language the original been referred to in the report. Just I want instructions given by the Bombay to request the hon. Minister to ascertain Government and the High Court now these facts. stand invalid. So we are facing a situation Moreover, I want to draw the attention in which even in offices the Marathi of the Minister to see how the Mysore language will be abolished. State is imposing Kannada on the Marathi I may quote another instance. The students in all the educational activities. Mysore Legislature has passed one Bill Take the example of university education. regarding the Municipal Councils. There The Karnatak University under whose a language clause has been inserted. The jurisdiction Belgaum and Dharwar are clause says that the proceedings of the included, has treated Marathi as an Municipal Councils shall be kept in optional subject. I may tell the Minister Kannada and in English if the Municipal here that when the Karnatak University Councils so resolve. There is no mention was started, there were of any other language except Kannada and English. The Belgaum Municipality

3767 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3768 Report of Commissioner Minorities has a clear majority of Marathi-spea-king Government. The question is whether the people. The Nipani Municipality has a clear reports are according to facts, whether they majority of Marathi-speaking people. The have been ascertained, whether they have Mysore Government wants Kannada to be been investigated. introduced there. For the last seven years the Mysore Government has tried to introduce THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE Kannada in the municipal records, but due to MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI R. M. the majority of the Marathi-speaking people HAJARNAVIS) : I may inform him at this and their resistance it could not happen. Now stage—I hope the hon. Member will permit according to the law they are trying to impose me this intervention—that the Assistant Com- Kannada in the municipal records also. The missioner went to Belgaum, spent some time municipal records have been kept in Marathi there, gave notice to all parties and collected from the inception, that is, for more than one all data. After that he made that report. hundred years. Now the Mysore Government is coming forward to impose Kannada and SHRI D. B. DASAI: May I know from the abolish Marathi from municipal records. Only Minister why Mr. Chanda's trip has been I have quoted these instances just to repeat cancelled? that in 1905 one officer came with Kannada language, and now in 1963 the Mysore Then the recommendations of the Government with the same policy to oust the Commission are on the last page. Marathi language from records, from schools, from even the tongues of the people . . . THE DEPUTY CHAIRMAN: You have two minutes more.

AN HON. MEMBER: Are they cutting SHRI D. B. DESAI: I am just completing. tongues too? There are various recommendations of the Commission here. I want to ask the Minister SHRI D. B. DESAI: It is as good as that. If I here whether there is any guarantee that these do not know Kannada, I cannot speak, I recommendations would be implemented. In cannot express my grievances, I cannot the last four reports, and this is the fifth report, express my sentiments. Even the democratic we have been getting recommendations from right which the Constitution has given us is the Commission, and no recommendation has suppressed due to the suppression of the been implemented. I must say categorically language. I do not want to emphasise this that no implementation has been made. There point further. was the three-language formula which was recommended by the South Zonal Council as well as the State Chief Ministers Conference. One point here which I want to emphasise But in Belgaum again Kannada is imposed as is that the Linguistic Minorities Commission the fourth language in addition to the regional has recommended a number of things. Our language or the mother tongue, that is Marathi, complaints have been reported here but the Hindi and English. So there is no guarantee replies given by the Mysore Government are that the recommendations of the Commission contrary to truth. I cannot say here that they will be implemented. In spite of all these are false. They are not true; that much I can irregularities, of the inability of the say. But the point here is whether the Com- Commissioner to investigate all these things, missioner has investigated all these things. still there are some recommendations. Those The Commissioner is banking ©n reports recommendations have been s'.anding as they received from the State are for the last three years..

3769 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3770 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri D. B. Desai.] They are not being that is a second language. And then, there is implemented 1. May I ask from the Hindi, there is English. Therefore, some Government any guarantee that these would formula has to be found which will not place be implemented? an undue burden on the children of the mino- rities on account of this four-language And there is one thing more about which a obligation. My own suggestion will be ':nt so number of people from our area reported to far as these children are concerned, their the Home Ministry. Here Hindi has been mother-tongue and the regional, language introduced from the fifth standard. There are should be a sort of combined course. That is, some text-books in Hindi. At the end of each for the children of the State, if the regional lesson, there is a passage given to be language has to be studied throughout the translated into Hindi. That passage is whole course, for one thousand hours, in the specifically given in Kannada with case of the children of the linguistu. instructions to the teacher that in the non- minorities, fiive hundred hours should be Kannada schools the teacher should translate devoted to the regional language and five the Kannada passage into their mother-tongue hundred hours to the mother-tcngue, and the and then ask the students to translate it into examinations and other things should be Hindi. It is a very funny procedure. I have to adjusted to this formula. Otherwise, the refer to this thing, and I request the Home burden on the linguistic minorities will be too Minister to see that these Marathi-speaking heavy. people get justice at the hands of the Home Minister at least. Then the second point which I would like to take up is the position of Sanskrit. When I say SHRI SYED AHMAD (Madhya Pradesh) : Sanskrit, I mean to say that H have no objec- Justice of the Home Minister? tion to people taking up Urdu or Persian or even other classical languages. But for the v«;t SHRI K. SANTHANAM (Madras): Madam, majority of non-Muslim and non-Christian the extreme difficulties of the linguistic population, Sanskrit is a fundamental lan- minorities which may occur in certain places guage which enshrines all the great truths of have been fully explained by the previous their religion and culture. Therefore, facilities speaker. But I wish to deal with certain points for learning SansUfliit should be provided fo(r which are more or less common to all them, and unless it is so, we shall be in the linguistic minorities in this country. As the most unfortunate position that in free India, Commissioner has pointed out in this very Sanskrit is in a worse position than under the excellent Report, for which I pay him my t: ibute, so far as the linguistic minority is British rule. I have been thinking hard about concerned, the three-language formula is auto- this, and I have got two suggestions to make matically converted into a four-language to the Home Ministry to consider. formula, because the child has to learn its mother-tongue and it has to learn the regional In those States where the mother-tongue is language. I do not agree that they can escape Hindi, 'I do not see any real useful purpose learning the regional language, unless they are being served in forcing the children to learn temporary residents. The linguistic minorities some other regional language. Instead of that permanently resident in any State have to if they are given the facilities and the choice function in that State and they have to learn of learning Sanskrit, the alternative being the regional language. Therefore, that is also Urdu or Per- an inescapable obligation. So,

3771 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1983 ] for Linguistic 3772 Report of Commissiov.er Minorities siara—I do not want to repeat it; I do not Maharashtra, Andhra, Tamil Nad and say that it must be only Sanskrit . . Kerala have preserved Sanskrit for these one thousand years but unfortunately, SHHI N. M. ANWAR (Madras): Any their position has became a little difficult classical language. because children have now to learn not only their regional language but also Sirai K. SANTHANAM: It may even English an,j Hindi. All these are in- be Urdu because I fully realise the escapable, and for them Sanskrit has to be difficulties of those people whose learnt only as the fourth language. You mother-tongue is Urdu, as explained by cannot say that they should not learn Dr. Sapru. Whenever I say Sanskrit, I Hindi, because \ve want Hindi to become always mean that option should be given the national language, and to preserve to learn Urdu or Persian or may other their contacts with all' modern literature, language. If a child, boy or girl, in U.F. or they have t: Irqrn English. Therefore, to Bihar learns Sanskrit, it will be easy for some extent, Sanskrit will decline in the him or her to learn Bengali, Marathi, South. And I want that it should be made Telugu or Malayalam. The only language up by intensive cultivation in North which may give trouble is Tamil. Even in India. After all, North India is the birth- the case of Tamil, a knowledge of place of Sanskrit. They had betrayed their Sanskrit will make it much easier. I can trust owing to political instability, and say with confidence that a boy or girl now that we have a free India and have who knows Sanskrit can understand got freedom, I say that it is the duty of Rabindra-nath Tagore or Tilak's Gita every Indian belonging to the Hindi Rah.asya or any of the Telugu or States to see that his child cultivates Malayalam classics much better than if he or she learns directly Bengali or Marathi Sanskrit always, with the alternative that or Malayalam or Telugu. Therefore, it is he may learn Urdu or Persian or any our duty to preserve our great inheritance. other language. That is what I have to say I do not claim to be a scholar in Sanskrit about Sanskrit. but I can say this with confidence that as a classical language, Sanskrit is Then, so far as primary education is concerned, the present formula is fairly unrivalled and its literature has simply no parallel whatsoever in any other language satisfactory, and it is only a question of including Greek and Latin. Therefore, I implementation. But in the matter of think it will be a great crime on the part secondary education, the present position of the Government of India if if. does not is altogether unsatisfactory. I do not think provide proper facilities for the people of it is right to leave it to the State India to learn Sanskrit. Therefore, the Governments to provide secondary first suggestion that I will make in respect education, in any major linguistic area, to of the Hi*" do States is that thy should the linguistic minorities. So, we have to have the option of taking rp Sanskrit as evolve certain criteria, and I would say the third language. Provided this option is that in any town or any place where there are at least ten thousand people of a given, I have no doubt that a least 90 per cent, of the non-Muslim, non-Christian particular language it must he the and non-Anglo-Indian boys and girls will obligation of the Central Government to take up Sanskrit, and Sanskrit will provide a secondary school for the become ■enshrined. For a thousand children of that minority with the years, owing to political confusions of all teaching medium being their own sorts. Sanskrit was practically driven out mother tongue. of North llndia to South India. 'SHRI N. M. ANWAR: Central authority to provide for it?

3773 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3774 Report of Commissioner Minorities SHRI K. SANTHANAM: The Central needs of such children coming from a Government must take on the different State a certain number of responsibility of providing secondary English schools should be established in schools for the linguistic minori ties in all every State. Of course it may depend the States. In Mysore, for instancej it will upon the actual number to be catered for, have a legal obligation; it will have the may depend upon the conditions obligation financial and moral, to start prevailing. But a certain minimum Marathi schools and other schools. number should be established, and to Similarly it will be in all areas. It is only these English-medium schools proper in that manner that a proper solution can hostels should be attached so that officers be 'found. Otherwise I do agree with Mr. from other States may avail of such Desai there will be a continuous pressure, schools and such hostels, especially when both financial as well as linguistic and we are insisting that 50 per cent, of the chauvinistic pressure to eliminate the I.A.S. officers and I.P.S. officers and minority languages from the secondary other all-India services should all serve schools, and il think it will create a lot of outside their States. And if they are bit'teirnessl. Therefore the Central serving in out of the way stations their Government should squarely face th e children may be put in the schools and problem and take on the obligation. Of course you cannot say that all over hostels nearest to their places of duty in Mysore secondary schools with Marathi which case their children will not lose as the medium should be established. contact with their parents for long periods Therefore certain criteria of population of time. So a certain number of secondary should be laid down. Whether it should be schools with attached hostels should be ten thousand or five thousand, or fifty established. thousand is a matter which has to be considered on merits, but having considered and decided on the criteria, Now coming to colleges there is a great wherever the prescribed criteria obtain, deal of confusion about the medium of secondary schools with the required instruction. On the one hand, linguistic medium provided for should be theoretically, it is said that ultimately the established. Similarly I think it is the medium of instruction can be only the Central Government that should take on regional language, but again, side by side, the obligation of maintaining a celrtain it is said that this change-over should not minimum number of secondary schools come about unless a proper preparation is with English as the medium, everywhere, made. Now I have got some idea of this for the children of Anglo-Indians, of preparation in Madras. When Mr. C. Christians and of certain others who are Subramaniam was the Minister he fixed a birds of passage, in the sense that officials date, so far as the humanities were from Bengal serve in Madras, or officials concerned, for converting all colleges— from Madras serve in Bengal, and they do except one or two—for shifting to Tamil not know what to do for their children as the medium of instruction, and for that since they do not propose to settle there, in purpose he established a Tamil pub- the places where they serve—they aire lications bureau, of which I happen to be there for a few years, and if their children a member, and that bureau produced fifty cannot be educated in, say, Bengal, then to sixty books in all subjects, concerning they will be in difficulty for want of economics, politics and other subjects— educational facilities in the places where excellent books. But then who will read their parents work and with whom they the books? Unless Tamil is used as the have to live. So to meet the medium of instruction the books will be useless. If you say that we must have books, we must have transla-

3775 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for LmguiHic 3776 Report of Commissioner Minorities

tions> vi'e must have proper literature in this manner are established in every before we can change over, and I say that State, it will provide for every kina of now you are going in a vicious circle. linguistic minority. The students may Therefore my suggestion is that, from take either their own regional language now on, English and the regional and English or, if they come from language should be made joint media for outside, they can take Hindi and a whole generation, for, say, thirty years, English. so that there will be no hurry, there will be no confusion. And in every subject, for SHRI N. M. ANWAR: What do you part of it some books may be prescribed mean by "joint media"? How can two in English and some books in the regional languages be simultaneously employed? language, so that the students as well as the teachers will become competent to use SHRI K. SANTHANAM: For instance, both the regional language and English in every question paper, to start with, for all purposes of college and university five per cent, of the questions will be in the instruction. regional language and ninety-five per cent, will be in English, and each year the Recently I paid a visit to Saugar and regional language quota will increase by met the Vice-Chancellor of the Saugar five per cent, till a level of fifty per. University. There, that entire university has cent, is reached, and thereafter, in respect been converted to Hindi, an^ the of the question papers set for their Chancellor told me that the position of examinations, each boy and girl will be the students there was pitiable, because allowed to answer them either in English or they did not know English, they could the regional language subject to the not function in English at all, when condition that fifty per cent, should be the whole of India is functioning in English, answered in one language and fifty per cent, and so these students are cut off in in the other if they want to get full marks. respect of their university life, their higher Of course they may say that it does not educational life from the whole country. appear to be very tidy to start with, that we Therefore, if the integrity of the whole must have one or the other. But I do not see country _ if the integrity of the higher any possibility of the transition from one to education in this country has to be the other taking place in the foreseeable maintained, I think there is no other future. If the whole country says that Eng- alternative but that English must be one lish must continue for all time, then of medium of instruction, and side by side, course the position is simple. But the regional language also. If this is psychologically, as a nationalist, done, then the movement from one somehow my entire mind and sou! revolt college to another, from one university to against such an idea. On the other hand, if another will become easy, and in due vou say that in two years or five years you course all our professors and students will are going to get rid of English, I should sav ;t be able to function both in English and in wil1 be destruction of higher education. the regional language, and ultimately in Therefore this seems to be the onlv Hindi also. Thus this linguistic practicable solution, and it will give the transition will become smooth, my one tim e for all our professors to learn to last suggestion—and I shall end with it— is function in the regional language also. Now that the Centre should establish at least today ycu cannot get professors who two colleges in every State, one in which can lecture in philosophy or economics English and the regional langU3"° are or anything in their own regional language. joint media, and another in which English Mv proposal will give the time for the and Hindi are Joint media. If these two smooth transition. Let us take i* easy colleges

3777 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3778 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri K. Santhanam] and riow, and let rashtra areas with large Kannada- the transition take place over thirty j'ears. speaking people. Has the Tamilian With these few remark.-! I think that this Government appointed any Marathi- linguistic problem require j more detail- speaking officers? It is in the nature of - ed, consideration. Now the major Jungs that an officer who is appointed principles have been settled about the should be a Kannada-i:peaking man, but three-language formula, and the ultimate it is also a fact that he is a. Marathi- prevalence of the regional language in the speaking man. All those people who live university sphere, and Hindi as the Indian in the border areas know both the langua- national language. Eut between the ges of the area. ultimate and the present there is going to be a long period of transition, and the SHRI D. B. DESAI; How many problems of transition have to be very Marathi-knowing officers are appointed carefully analysed and practicable there? solutions have to be found. SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: Thank you, Madam. 3 Majority of them. P.M. SHRI D. B. DESAI: There are only six SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: Madam as the report says. Deputy Chairman, I did not intend to take part in this debate although I have SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: I can carefully read the report of the challenge you. I can give names. The Commissioner for Linguistic Minorities. I Government there have taken care to see sought your permission to speak just that a man who is conversant with the because I felt that it is my duly to speak people there, who can carry o^ who can to clear a wrong impression which Shri mix with the people there, who can make Desai has given to this House. It is one himself too understood by the people thing to say that a State should do its there, such a man is posted. Such a man utmost to protect the interests of id posted as Collector. Such a man. is linguistic minorities, but it is quite a posted as a police official. Such a man is different thing to say that the State posted for the administrative duties as far discriminates against minorities. The as they can find such people. For argument that my friend advances here is instance, in Gulbarga, in Bidar, in all that the State has discriminated against these places such persons were posted minorities. After all. Belgaum was not immediately after the reorganisation. wiih Mysore. It is an integrated area. It True that in old Mysore only Kannada- has come to Mysore only after the States' knowing people have been posted. But -reorganisation. That, ll suppose, my for high-level posts', some Collectors, or friend remembers very well. So he cannot people who knew Marathi as well have attribute this charge of discrimination been posted there although 'hey are against the Marathis to the Mysore State Kannada-speaking people That fact as existing of old. It must be a new should be remembered by my hon. friend. charge and let us see how far his case is borne out by facts. Madam, he made another point to say that the Muni ipal Councils are recording Mr. Desai's purpose was to show that their proceedings in Kannada. if the State Mysore was appointing officers who language is Kannada and the Municipal speak Kannada. I should like to know Council is recording its proceedings in whether the Government of Maharashtra Kannada, unless the Municipal Council has appointed any Kannada-speaking resolves that it should be recorded in officers in Maha- Marathi, what is wrong

3779 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3780 Report of Commissioner Minorities with it? Can he quote one instance in which is full of Telugu-speaking people, Maharashtra where a Municipal Council's we do not have more than one or two records its proceedings in Kannada or Telugu schools. I am not so unfair as my Telugu although there are thousands and hon inend to allege that the State has lakhs of Kannada-speaking or Telugu- discriminated against us. Mysore was speaking people there? We do not make a known as a cosmopolitan State. Mysore grievance. As far as possible, the majority was known throughout as the most bene- language should be the language in which volent administration. Gujaratis and the proceedings are recorded, and if there people of all nationalities have come and are people who want proceedings to be made their home an Mysore. Not that I recorded in Eng-L.;h, they are recorded in havse nothing to say but we Telugus have English. What is wrong therein? no complaints that they have discriminated against us. We did not carry on agitation for establishing Telugu He went on to point out some defects in schools because we were satisfied with education where he was completely Canaiese and, therefore, we do not have wrong. As I was submitting to this Telugu school^ today. House, this is a new area which has come into Mysore. Even in old Similarly there are Tamilians. There is a Mysore—I do not know whether my hon. lot of Tamilian population. Telugu- friend knows it or not—there are Marathi- speaking population is 11 per cent. My speaking people living in the Bangalore hon. friend's language-speaking city, for instance. We have a colony population is 6:24 per cent. I will read out called the Surveyors' colony where from the Appendix the number of schools Marathi schools exist since the 18th and they have. Tamilians also are in a very 19ih century. And then there are Marathi large majority. They have concentrated schools elsewhere also. Here in Ap- groups in several cities and they have pendices VIII, IX and X you will get these their own Tamil schools. The State has figu.es. There are Marathi schools encouraged them. The State has given and if Mysore wanted to discriminate, they encouragement to every linguistic could have as we^ spid "No" to minority as much as possible, rather as is Maharashtrians; they need not have demanded. It was the first State in the encouraged Marathi schools. It is very whole of India, Madam, where the unfair to allege discrimination against a minority people, the Urdu-speaking, had a Government when that Government is special system of education. There are just about to act on the recommendations Urdu primary schools, Urdu middle of the Linguistic Minorities schools, Urdu high schools. They are run- Commissioner. No State Government, ning now even today managed entirely by for instance, has acted on the the Urdu-speaking people. They were recommendations of the States opened only for Muslims . . . Reorganisation Commission or on the recommendations of the Commissioner for •SiHRi N. M. ANWAR: Madam Linguistic Minorities because the Deputy Chairman, while I agree with our Governments We slow to act in this hon. friend in his claim that Mysoxe has regard. They have not taken very quick provided this special facility to Urdu, let action, I do admit. And he must know Mm not take the credit that Mysore is the that I am also one of those in Mysore who only State. Madias is the first State. belong io a linguistic minority, and if I have any grievance, I have a grievance SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: I give because in my district we have TeTugu- due credit to Madras. I do not speak-ing people but we do not have one Telugu school. In the Kolar district, 3781 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3782 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri M. Govinda Reddy.] mean to SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: May be. take credit for myself. But I was saying That is a new area to Mysore. If you look that it was the foremost t0 establish these at the old Mysore pattern, most of the schools. And I do not think that for a schools are Government-managed ones hundred of population you have as many because this was a new entrant into Urdu schools anywhere else. Of course, I Mysore, the high schools which were may not be quite correct. owned by the private institutions are continuing. What is wrong? I do not see SHRI M. SATYANARAYANA (No- the point. minated) : May I point out that the whole credit goes to the Urdu-speaking Then he referred to some complaints. population who have got intense love for The Linguistic Minorities Commissioner their language? They have always been has taken very good care to go into these agitating that their mother-tongue should complaints. The complaints were by Mr. be recognised. Wherever there are Urdu- Gadgil, the ex-Governor of Punjab and by speaking people, they have succeeded in the Vivek Var-dhani Society. These two getting Urdu schools. were the complainants. The Commissioner says in para 332: SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: There was no agitation in Mysore for Urdu- "The complaint was investigated and speaking schools. In fact, the Gov- it was found that whereas on 1st ernment themselves sponsored Urdu November 1956 there were 783 schools just to encourage the special Marathi schools with 81,289 pupils and culture. I was just, pointing out to show 2,221 teachers therein, the number of that discrimination is only a political such schools rose to 868 with 1,10,334 stunt. It cannot be made by any fair- pupils and 3,046 teachers as on 1st minded gentleman against the April 1961 . . . ."— administration of Mysore. This is not discriminatory— Now, Madam, I come to Appendices VIIl ". . . in the six districts of Hyderabad- and IX giving the number of Marathi Karnataka area i.e., Belgaum, etc. * * * schools. If the hon. Member refers to It was further learnt that there were no page 184 he will find that in Belgaum there Marathi schools run by the Vivek are 534 minority language, Marathi, Vardhani Society of Hyderabad"— schools. In Bangalore city there are 2. In Bijapur there are 14. Dharwar has 13. which was one of the complainants. In the North Kanara has 119. Bidar has 83. next para, he says: Gul-barga and Mysore have 3 and 1 res- pectively. In 1956-57 there were 590 "Representatives of Maharashtra Marathi schools, in 1957-58 there were 761, Ekikaran Samiti, Belgaum had com- in 1958-59 it rose to 798, in 1959-60 plained about inadequacy of primary there were 750 and in 1960-61 there were schools imparting instruction in more than 769. Can anybody say, by Marathi. On investigation it has been looking at these figures, that there is found out that there are 35 Marathi discrimination in the matter of schools or schools in Belgaum City for 14,261 anything of that sort? pupils as against 15 Kan-nada schools for 5,709 pupils. In the district as a SHRI D. B. DESAI: Is the hon. whole there are 535 Marathi schools Member aware of the percentage of and 1,236 Kannada schools." primary schools conducted by the private institutions? It was 40 per cent, The Marathi population is only 50 or 52 of schools conducted by the private per cent, in the city of Belgaum. I think institutions. these facts will make it clear that the charge of discrimination 3783 Tic-lion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1968 ] for Linguistic ^4 Report of Commissioner Minorities against the State Administration is very little knowledge. In fact there is very little unfair but if my friend says that the State knowledge of these healthy provisions for Administration hag to do everything in giving facilities for the linguistic: order to develop and encourage the minorities. I think the Commissioner's minorities, I am one with him because I office can perform a very useful function if am also pleading for that. they give wide publicity to all these provisions. The State Governments "issue circulars but generally what There is one thing which I would happens Is the circulars are pasted in suggest. Now the various recom- front of the educational offices and mendations of the S.R.C, the Chief perhaps in front of the high schools Ministers' Conference, the Education and primary schools but which parent goes Ministers' Conference and the South to read the circulars there? So they must Zona] Council bring in some conditions widely publicise in the vernacular precedent for establishing separate schools newspapers and see that pamphlets are for minorities or for having classes printed containing the various facilities for minority media. Those conditions that are allowed to the minority linguistic are roughly that a certain percentage groups so that they may take of population should be there, that in advantage of them. So we need not go the classes there should be a certain into the secondary or university percentage of students of the minority education at first. If the •minority language and they also see the percentage groups are not educated in their mother- of students as existing in a particular tongue in the primary schools, there is no year. They take a year for instance. Now question of their taking up their "mother- this is a very wrong way of judging things. tongue in the secondary or at the university For instance, where there are n^ existing stage. So the primary schools are schools for mitt >rity languages at all for important to begin with. So in order to instance as in the Telugu-speaking areas have the primary schools of these linguis- in Mysore, where there are no Telugu tic minorities, people belonging to the schools but if they want to have Telugu linguistic minorities must know that schools, if you take the present school these are the recommendations of the strength into consideration, there could be S.R.C, that these are the recommendations no Telugu schools at all. So where is made by the Education Ministers, that the question of getting a percentage of these are the recommendations of the Telugu students in a class? There is no South Zonal Council. The Commissioner percentage. Therefore the attempt should give good publicity to these ought to be first of all to popularise the recommendations. I appreciate very recommendations of the S.R.C, the highly the report. I have nothing more to South Zonal Council and that of the say. I do concede that the Mysore Chief Ministers' Conference. Very few Government is slack in proceeding people know of them. In fact the Mysore upon or acting upon these Government have issued a circular that the recommendations. I think every parents of pupils who want their children f Government is slack but of my o take up their mother-tongue as the med- Government I can speak with authority ium of instruction should intimate that it is slack. within three months in the year to the authorities concerned but which parent AN HON. MEMBER: Except Andhra. knows this? This must be widely publicised so that the parents of these minority community students know that SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY: I they have facilities of this sort offered to do not know and I am ignorant about them and they should take advantage of Andhr* Vu* I think we are not as fast that. There is very as w d be and I hope if the Minorities Commissioner helpg the oeople to know these things, 3785 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 378' Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri M. Govinda Jteddj'.] there will be popular movement also and popular demand also will be generated for these schools and I think the purpose of the Commissioner also win be fulfilled and the linguistic minorities will assert themselves certainly.

3787 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1968 ] for Linguistic 3788 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3789 Motion regarding | RAJYA SABHA ] for Unfibi c 3790 Report 0/ Commissioner Minorities

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHBI M. GOVINDA REDDY) : That is all right, Mr. Anwar, but this is no interruption, you are making a speech.

SHKI N. M. ANWAR: But, Sir, if you include Sanskrit then how is it a three- language formula?

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHEI M. GOVINDA REDDY) : But his time is limited.

SHRI N. M. ANWAR: It will be a four- language formula. 3791 Motion regarding [ 17 DKC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3792 Reaort of Commissioner Minorities

"Being neither a regional language of any State nor being in-eluded in the Eighth Schedule, the future of tile language is in jeopardy and the Commissioner recommends that the same privileges be accorded to it as to the Nepali language in Darjeeling." 3793 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3794 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3795 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3796 Report of Commissioner Minorities SHRI JAIRAMDAS DAULATRAM (Nominated): Sir, I have studied the latest Report of the Commissioner for Linguistic Minorities with great care and I have also studied, in earlier years the Reports for the preceding years and I have come to the conclusion that the Commissioner for Linguistic Min-oritits deserves every appreciation for the great labour, patience, perseverance with which he has tried to make the State Governments respond to his proposals for safeguarding the rights of the minority languages and I think it is an THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. institution which has given us considerable GOVINDA REDDY) : Mr. Hajarnavis, you experience as to how these mr'... have to come here. should be handled. Among the many languages with wbiuh the Report deals is my own language—Sindhi. Of course, for SHRI V. M. CHORDIA: He has come here to talk with another Member, not to my own language, I do consider, on merits and in justice that the legitimate place is the hear anybody. Eighth Schedule. But I do not propose to go into that question today. The Report also deals SHRI R. M HAJARNAVIS: No, no, I with numerous difficulties which my language am here, I am hearing. has had to face at the primary and secondary stages in various States. With these questions also I do not propose to deal today. I do intend to take them up more fruitfully at a personal level with the Ministry or the State Governments Or with the Commissioner for Linguistic Minorities. Today, I shall speak on certain basic questions which affect the interests of all the languages including mine and much more, which affect the interests of the nation. I will make some concrete suggestions in this connection I do not think thai: the question of linguistic minorities is some kind of a minor question of mere linguistic minorities. It is basically linked up with the question of national integraion both at the State level and at the national level. The feeling of consolidation inside the State, fflie sentiment which makes every section of the people in a State develop a warm-hearted State loyalty is involved in this and so also is involved the national feeling in the country as a whole. We know that it was over the language question, a minority language question, that blood was shed in the Brahmaputra Valley.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHHI M. GOVINDA REDDY) : You have to be more attentive to the Members. 869 RSD—5.

3797 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] ]or Linguistic 3798 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri Jairamdas Daulatram] It was that they two had no place in shock which made us all realise that that Comimittee of nine and special steps have to be taken for national they felt themselves as outsiders. It is integration. We had big conferences and that psychological impact and reaction we have set up an Integration Council, all which we must avoid. I am one of those because the question out of which that who believe that the acuteness of the most unfortunate event took place in my minority problem, even the second home, Assam, showed us the acuteness of the linguistic minority weakness of our internal situation. And I problem, is the reaction to the attitude of do plead with the Government not to the majority. Wherever the majority consider the question of linguistic considers the minorities in a State as minorities as a mere question of language. part of the family, wherever the State With the question of language are majorities think that others are their intertwined certain very vital sentiments younger brothers, not merely younger of a human being. No one can read the brothers but brothers, there will be no Introduction of our Prime Minister to Mr. difficulty. The attitude towards the Pandit's English version of Raja Tarangini minorities or the linguistic minorities has without feeling with him about the impor- to be one of family relationship, of tance of the element of language in the oneness, of ownness, what we say in human being's composition. I do therefore Hindi, of apnapan. But 1 find that that plead with the Government that we must feeling does not exist. On the contrary deal with this problem as an important what I find is that the feelings on problem of national integration. account of language are becoming more acute. In every part of the country we have some focus of discontent. In every And the suggestions which I want to State there are a few small focii of make are that there ought to be now not a discontent on the language question mere Commissioner for Linguistic whereas a large-hearted long-visioned Minorities but we must have at the Centre nation would encourage whatever a Minister for Minorities who may be a languages there are in the country. The part of the Ministry of Home Affairs. We more liberally and generously is the find half a dozen villages in Kannada- language of a minority encouraged the less speaking areas not willing to be under the does the minority have the feeling of rule of the Marathi-speaking majority. I minority. They also begin to develop that give one such illustration only. I found in feeling of apnapan. It is not merely safe- another State soon after that State was guarding the rights of a minority; it is not created into a separate State based on merely the negative act which we have to language suddenly the language in small do it is not simply that we have to informal committee meetings changed. In prevent some difficulty but we have to a Committee of nine which included two encourage them and we have to see that people who did not speak the regional they also feel that they ^re members of language, the latter found themselves the same family, maybe younger entirely out of place because in the members of the family, and therefore the informal committee meetings they found majority in every State1 should cultivate that overnight the medium which every- deliberately and a develop—and we must body understood was replaced by the have a definite programme of regional medium and those two could not developing—that the language of the fully participate. They might have minority, let them feel that you regard understood others vaguely but they could their language as your own. Take for not fully express themselves and instance the State of Gujarat. The Gujarat they felt that State should encourage the Marathi language and make every Maharashtrian in Gujarat feel that Marathi is also con- sidered

3801 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] jor Linguistic 3802 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3803 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 | for Linguistic 0804. Report of Commissioner Minorities

3805 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3806 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3807 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3808 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3809 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3810 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3811 Motion regarding [ 17 DIC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3812 Report 0/ Commissioner Minorities

3813 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3814 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3815 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3816 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3817 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3813 Report of Commissioner Minorities

19 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 382O Report of Commissioner Minorities

3821 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3822 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3823 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3824. Report of Commissioner Minorities

SHRI R. M. HAJARNAVIS: Sir, I just want Today the position is that the Commissioner to say this. May I express my apology to the for Linguistic Minorities has a statutory status House and especially to my friend, Mr. by virtue of the fact that he holds his office Chordia, because while he was speaking I under article 350B of the Constitution and he appeared to be in conversation with another has to carry out the obligations cast upon him Member. I might assure him that I was trying under article 350A of the Constitution. to get certain facts relating to the very subject Government has been coming forward with so of this discussion from an hon. Member of many Constitution (Amendment) Bills and I this House. There were certain issues raised would suggest to Government that in view of relating to a sensitive spot, and I also knew it the fact that the regional languages are being as he himself remarked, and I am going to developed, article 350A should be amended to reply to it tomorrow. I will read everything give more powers to the Commissioner for which has fal'en from the hon. Member with Linguistic Minorities. I should like to read out very great care which I always do. I apologise the text of the article— to him for the lapse.

SHRI A. D. MANI (Madhya Pradesh): "It shall be the endeavour of Mr. Vice-Chairman, the House has had an every State and of every local opportunity of discussing these four years the authority within the State to pro report of the Commissioner for Linguistic vide adequate facilities for instruct Minorities and I am glad to say that as a result tion in the mother-tongue at the of the work of the Commissioner and the work primary stage _____ " of the National Integration Conference the so- called minority languages' situation in the I want to emphasise on the words "at the country has considerably improved. Sir, in primary stage." the years to come the regional languages will develop in all the States services of the Union ". . . of education to children belonging and perhaps after five or ten years serious to linguistic minority groups; and the difficulties may be encountered by the President may issue such directions to any minority communities in various States in the State as he considers necessary or proper matter of education and in the matter of em- for securing the provision of such faci- ployment. Already certain language and lities." regional pressures there are in our body politic, and I may refer here to an observation made by I would like this article of the Constitution the Commissioner in his report that in West to be amended to provide that the President Bengal for certain posts which were advertised may issue directions to the States when he the qualification that was insisted upon was feels that the language minority groups are that the person must have good power to speak being discriminated against in respect of in Bengali. This would rule out members of the employment in any State and that they are not minority linguistic communities in the State being given facilities for higier education. services of West Bengal. It is again Under this article, all that the linguistic significant—I am not criticising the West minority group can ask for is education only Bengal Government but I am only quoting what up to the primary stage, not at the secondary the Commissioner has said—that when the stage and not at the collegiate stage. I think attention of the West Bengal Government that this article should be amended so that it will enable the President to give directions on was drawn to this matter, no reply so far had the basis of the recommendations that the been received from the West Bengal Commissioner for Linguistic Minorities may Government. submit to him from time to time.

3825 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3826 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri A D. Mani] is, if I am a student of the Madras The second point that I would like to University and I get education only in mention is that in view of the regional Tamil which is the regional language and languages being developed in every if I happen to come from Sindh or from State—and I have no complaints against Punjab, I should be in a position to say such development—the Union that the Madras University holds Government must provide the safeguard examinations in Hindi and English also. that in every State, provision is made for If there is no instruction provided in the education in the Union language or the colleges, the university regulation should Union associate language. The Union be so amended as to permit a student to associate language efter 1965 is going to sit privately for the examination. He must be English, and the official language is have the necessary opportunity for going to be xlindi. It should be made learning the Hindi language, and that is compulsory 4or every university in the the only way in which he can get county *o allow the students to appear in adequate opportunities or chances for either English or Hindi, not necessarily in employment not only in that State but in the regional languages and not necessarily other States also. in the minority languages. As long as the avenues are open for a minority linguistic SHRI M. SATYANARAYANA: That group to get education in English or is the three-language medium. Hindi, it will enable them to improve their chances of appearing for the examinations SHRI A. D. MANI: That is the three- concerned, and these two languages language medium. The three-language should be made obligatory and medium has been suggested by the Chief compulsory on the part of the universities Ministers' Conference. The three- concerned. Otherwise, while we will be language medium should be insisted developing the regional languages, we will upon as a necessary obligation cast upon be unloosening those bonds which hold the President under article 350A which I India together. read out just now.

The third point that I would like to The point that I would like to make make is that unfortunately, few good is that the Central Government itself text-books have been published should publish model text-books in -in the so-called minority regional the regional minority languages, and "languages in every State. it has been one of the recommenda tions of the Commissioner for Linguis SHHI M. SATYANARAYANA-. May I tic Minorities. We cannot leave the ask the hon. Member to explain? When a publication of minority languages particular regional language is declared text-books to the State Governments, as the State language—which means that some of whom may be accused of that State language has to be used as the indifference to the development of official medium for the purpose of minority languages. carrying on the administration—and when that language also has to receive The fourth point that I would like to the same attention as the medium in order make is that the Commissioner for to enable any man whoever uses it to use Lingustic Minorities has stated in his it efficiently, how can that language be Report that pamphlets should be pub- eliminated from the medium of ins- lished in every State giving information truction from the primary stages? on the rights of the minorities under the Constitution and the opportunities that SHRI A. D. MANI: I am not suggesting are open to them for getting primary that the regional language should be education in terms of article 350 and eliminated. What I am suggesting other matters. I am not in favour of more pamphlets being issued upon the rights of

3827 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1933 ] for Linguistic ,828 Report of Commissioner Minorities minorities. What I am interested in is to see I would like to mention about the electoral that the right of the minorities should not only rolls. We have got to see that the electoral be protected but the right of the minorities rolls are published in Hindi and English and should be the foundation also for national in the regional languages. unity. If we go on publishing pamphlets giving information about the rights of AN. HON. MEMBER: What about the minorities, we will not be developing what I minority? may call an all-India sense of unity. SHEI A. D. MANI: The minority I am not in favour of the suggestion made community must blend itself with the local earlier in the debates that a Minister should be surroundings and learn at least one of these appointed in the Ministry of Home Affairs to three languages. If not the regional language, look after minority affairs. As the Prime it at least should learn the all-India languages, Minister has said, there is not going to be a namely, English or Hindi. second list under the Kamaraj Plan, and let not one more job be added to the Ministry Sir, in our anxiety to protect th« minority without anv well-defined functions. What I languages, I do not want that we should would like to say is—and this is very im- develop those specious seeds nf separatism portant—that in every State, the State which are ingrained in our minds. On account Government should constitute a Minority of our tradition and on account of the fact that Languages Board which will meet from time the Indian society is based on caste and other to time and tell the State Government what considerations, already so many forces of steps should be taken by it to see that they get division are working in our minds and we do the necessary linguistic protection under the not want the minority languages to be made a Constitution. cardinal issue, as if this is the only thing which is important. Far more important is the Sir, I would like to make a reference to the Indian national unity. demand made that the electoral rolls should be I would like to make a reference published in the minority languages. The Election Commission has partially considered to the craze—I would say, a wide this matter in the case of Punjab. But if we go spread craze—of the various State on publishing the electoral rolls in the Governments having sign-boards h« minority languages and the regional the local regional languages. Even languages, what will happen is that we will the mileage is indicated in the Deva- not be developing the all-India language after nagari script (Interruption). Yea, 1965, namely, Hindi. We have taken the It is because you have never travelled all over India. You have been sitting in Madras under decision to make Hindi the all-India language. And Sir, as a person who has passed two the shadow of Shii Kamaraj Nadar. examinations in Hindi and whose mother- tongue is not Hindi, I would like to say that THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. having taken the decision to make Hindi as the GOVINDA REDDY) : Please proceed and make all-India official language, we should decide your points. You have only two minutes to make it the national language also, so that more. in course of time, as English has been adopted SHRI N. M. ANWAR: I am sorry that Mr. by the immigrant community of North Mani suffers from terrible ignorance as usual. America, we can make Hindi the real national I was applauding his proposal. language of the •country, maybe, fifty years hence. SHRI A D. MANI: Imagine the condition of 869 RSD.—6 the tourists who come to India and who go from State to Stata 3829 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] /or Linguistic 3830 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri A. D. Mani.] and their trouble in script, or whatever the deficiencies in finding out the directions on the roads. They Sindhi literature—is to include Sindhi as find that the sign-boards are in the regional one of the languages recognised by the languages. At least, as far as the road signs Constitution in its Eighth Schedule. are concerned, they should always carry the national languages also on the sign-boards. Sir, I would also like to make the plea for the preservation of Urdu and the Sir, one more point; the national, language development of its culture. There is a will be Hindi and English also will be an good deal of dissatisfaction in U. P. and I official language—I know my friend, would like to say that the extent to which professor Ruthna-swamy, does not like the we extend our sympathetic and generous expression "national language" of India. support to Urdu will be an expression of our demonstration of national solidarity Now I would like to make reference to the and of our being above communal and position of Sindhi. Under the Constitution . other pressures. . . Thank you. SHRI M. P. SHUKLA (Uttar Pradesh): I rise on a point of order; I dp not think the Constitution provides for English as the national language of India.

SHRI A. D. MANI: Sir, I am only saying that English will be an associate official language after 1965, and in terms of the constitutional provision I would like all sign-boards to have letters engraved or painted in Hindi and the associate official language—which is English—after 1965. SHRI M. P. SHUKLA: No, it should fee in Hindi and the Regional language.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. CJOVTNDA REDDY) : He has just one Or two minutes more; please do not interrupt him, SHRI A. D. MANI: Sir, I was making reference to Sindhi, that Sindhi should be included in the Eighth Schedule of the Constitution. The Sindhi community has suffered great privations after partition and large islands of Sindhis are to be found in almost every part of India. They have Contributed to the economic development of the country, and if they feel very strongly about their language, We should take all steps to preserve it, and the best thing that we can do—whatever the deficiencies in the

3831 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3832 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3833 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3834 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3835 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3836 Report of Commissioner Minorities

Article 29 says: "(1) Any section of the citizens iresiding in the territory of India or any part thereof having a distinct language, THE VICE-CHAIRMAN CSHRI script or culture of its own shall have M. GOVTNDA REDDY) : Mr. Kureel, make the right to conserve the same." other points, if you have any. 3837 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3838 Report of Commissioner Minorities

Artice 30(1) says: "All minorities, whether based on religion or language, shall have the right to establish and administer educational institutions of their choice."

Article 347 says: "On a demand being made in that behalf the President may, if he is satisfied that a substantial proportion of the population of a State desire the use of any language spoken by them to be recognised by that State, direct that such language shall also be officially recognised throughout that State or any part thereof for such purpose as he may specify." Then, in Chapter IV, article 350 says: "Every person shall be entitled to submit a representation for the redress of any grievance to any officer or authority of the Union or a State in any of the languages used in the Union or in the State, as the case may be." Article 30(2) says: Then again article 350A says: "The State shall not, in granting aid to educational institutions, dis "It shall be the endeavour of every criminate against any educational in State and of every local authority stitution on the ground that it is within the State to provide adequate under the management of a minority, facilities for instruction in the mother- whether based on religion or langu tongue at the primary stage of age." , J education to children belonging to linguistic minority groups; and the President may issue such directions to any State as he considers necessary or proper for securing the provision of such facilities."

3839 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3840 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3841 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3842 Report 0} Commissioner Minorities

ments a clear Code to govern the use of different languages at different levels of State Administration and take steps under Artcle 347 to ensure that this Code is followed. The Commission made certain recommendations in this regard, most of which were accepted by the Government of India and were included in the Government of India Memorandum 1956. The decisions of the Chief Ministers' Conference on this subject are as follows: — (a; No State is completely uni-lingual and therefore wherever publicity is required other languages in use in the area should be employed. (b) Where at least 60 per cent. of the population of a district speaks or uses a "(c) Whenever in a district or a language other than the official smaller area a linguistic minority language of the State the same should be constitutes 15 to 20 per cent, of the recognised as the official language in that population it would be desirable to get district in addition to the State official important Government noticei and language." rules published in the language of the

minority."

3843 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 38$ Report of Commissioner Minorities

3845 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3846 Report of Commissioner Minorities

3847 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3348 Report of Commissioner Minorities THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHHI M. GOVINDA REDDY): Mr. Kureel, make other points, if you have any.

I have got many points.

Article 30(2) says:— "The State shall not, in granting aid to educational institutions, discriminate against any educational institution on the ground that it is under the arrangement of a minority, whether based on religion or language."

Article 29 says: — "(1) Any section &f the citizens residing in the territory of India or anypart thereof having a distinct Article 347 says: — language, script or culture of its own shall have the right to conserve the "On a demand being made in that behalf the same." President may, if he is satisfied that a substantial proportion of the population of a State desire the use of any language spoken by them to be recognised by that State, direct that such lan- Article 30(1) says: — guage shall also be officially recognised "All minorities, whether based on throughout that State or any part thereof for religion or language shall have the such purpose as he may specify.". right to establish and administer educational institutions of their choice". 849 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 385C Report of Commissioner Minorities

"Every person shall be entitled to submit a representation for the redress of any grievance to any officer or authority of the Union or a State in any of the languages used in the Union or the State, as the case may be." Then again article 350 A says: — "It shall be the endeavour of every State and of every local authority within the State to provide adequate facilities for instruction in the mother-tongue at the primary stage of education to children be- longing to linguistic minority groups, and the President may issue such directions to any State as he considers necessary or proper for securing the provision of such facilities".

In Chapter III, the Report says: — "The States Reorganisation Commission suggested that the Government of India should adopt in consultation with the State Governments a clear Code to govern the use of different lnaguages at different levels of State Administration and take steps under Article 347 to ensure that this Code in followed. The commission made certain recommendations in this regard, most of which were accepted by the Government of India, and were included in the Government. 3851 Motion regarding \ 17 DEC. 1963 ] lor Linguistic 3852 Report of Commissioner Minorities of India Memorandum 1956. The constitutes 15 to 20 per cent, of the decisions of the Chief Ministers' population it would be desirable to get important Government notices and rules Conference on this subject are as follows: — published in the language of the minority".

(a) No State is completely uni- lingual and therefore wherever publicity is required other languages in use in the area should be employed.

(b) Where at least 60 per cent, of the population of a district speaks op uses a language other than the official language of the State the same should be recognised as the official language in that district in addition to the State official language".

SHRI N. M. ANWAR: Mr. Vice-Chairman, Sir, I rise to welcome the Fifth Report of the Commissioner for Linguistic Minorities covering the full calendar year 1962. After listening to the emotional effervescence of my good friend, Mr. Kuree] Talib in defence of Urdu as a language of the Christians, the Anglo Indians, the Kaysthas, the Muslims, and of every good communuity. I feel that I am much relieved of a responsibility which otherwise I wished to discharge. Sir, it is now evident from the wounderful defence that he had put up for this language that there are as many as 90 to 100 millions in this country who belong to what you call the Urdu minority, a "(c) Whenever in a district or a minority that is spread over the length and smaller area a linguistic minority breadth of

3853 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3854 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri N. M. Anwar.] SHRI A. M. TARIQ: I am also a this country and even in the distant Brahmin. nooks and corners of this great sub continent. But Mr. Vice-Chairman, I SHRI N. M. ANWAR; What is the real secret do not take any chauvinistic view al by which we have to preserve these minority though I know that Urdu is my languages in this country? It is not by the mother-tongue. But then, Mr. safeguards which the Constitution has Vice-Chairman, I belong to the joint family of provided for and the series of Commissions linguistic pantheon where Urdu is my mother- and Committees that have tried to fortify these tongue, but Tamil ia my father-tongue, Telugu minority languages in the course of their is my Bister-tongue and Canarese is my recommendations to which ample reference brother tongue. Well, let me tell you that there has been made by the Commissioner for are very many languages of the country for Linguistic Minorities. It is not by these paper which I claim kinship because my uncle and safeguards that we are going to ensure the cousins can speak in these languages infinitely future for our linguistic minorities. The much better. greatest proof of minority languages is the SHRI A. M. TARIQ (Jammu and Kashmir): goodwill that we enjoy from the majority What about English? community. Let us try to fill the dry bones of the Constitution with the flesh and blood of SHRI N. M. ANWAR: English is my official love and goodwill of the majority and that tongue, but Hindi is my beloved tongue, way, I feel, I must congratulate the Arabic my grand-father's tongue, Persian my Commissioner for some of the purple passages grand-mother's tongue and Sanskrit my fore- that I see in this report, as an eloquent tribute fathers' tongue. Therefore, Mr. Vice- and testimony to the statesmanship that is now Chairman, I have no sympathy for any one observed in the Southern State and particularly particular language to the total exclusion of all headed by the State of Madras which I have the other languages, nor have I any animus, the honour to represent in this House. I am a«y antipathy, any allergy against any very pleased that even in the course of the language. Therefore, viewed with that speech that you made, Mr. Vice-Chairman, in background I welcome the observations of reply to some of the points raised here, the some of the distinguished Members in this glory belongs to the South, whether it be the House. Mr. P. N. Sapru, as he began this Mysore State or the Madras State, or the debate, gave proof of abundant catholicity. Kerala State or the Andhra State. These are the Indeed I admire all Kashmiri Brahmins not States where we do not have much of this only for their beauty but also for their problem. The Telu-gus in Tamilnad, the catholicity, for their dress and vision, for their Tamils in Andhra and equally the Urdu sense of love and goodwill for all the minority in every one of these four States had languages of India, and that is the reason why been having very little or no problem so far as probably the forces of national solidarity and the safeguards for their language are emotional integration have come to be very concerned. That is the spirit which we have to safe in the hands of Kashmiri Brahmins. foster all over the country.

SHRI A. M. TARIQ: Only Brahmins. SHRI M. P. BHARGAVA (Uttar Pradesh): SHRI N. M. ANWAR: Kashmiri Brahmis. And yet linguistic. Sir,— SHRI N. M. ANWAR: Now I come to You, SHRI A. M. TARIQ: Kashmiris, not only and reveal where it is linguistic. Nevertheless, Brahmins. why then do we have this problem hanging as SHRI N. M. ANWAR; Yes, including Mr. a Damocles' sword Tariq.

3855 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3856 Report of Commissioner Minorities over our heads in the North, particularly in Here is the report which gives the belt which speaks Hindi as its regional abundant proof that there are language? Believe me, it was very certain States which despite the sickening for me to hear how—I am not safeguards provided for in the speaking of any observations expressed on Constitution, have not been able to the floor of the House but I am here implement them, in spirit and in letter. quoting chapter and verse from the report There are still mental reservations and that of the Commissioner—if any of the only speaks that little minds and great minority languages had come in as a States go ill together. It is not good for this casualty under the new dispensation with country, it is not good for the statesmen of the advent of our freedom, it is that most this nation, particularly a very great nation beautiful language for which Mr. Sapru and where we have got in the spectrum of our Mr. Mani and Mr. Kureel had ex- public opinion, different facets of our ecented their treamendous defence, ie. minorities that we should have to arrogate Urdu. I askj why has Urdu come in for so unto ourselves the spirit of jingoism or much of this liability? Is it because that chauvinism in the name of nationalism. you are not able to bear its intrinsic Therefore I say, such men as Mr. P. N. superiority? Is it because that you have Sapru, who happily have come here to this jealousy for its literary emblishments, and House, Mr. Jairamdas Daulatram, Mr. A. cultural excellence? Is it because that it D. Mani, Mr. Kureel Talib and Mr. is a eyesore to you that it carries the tradi- Santhanam really did yeoman service for tion of the composite culture that we have the preservation of our national inherited through centuries? This language solidarity and really gave a beacon which I must say, owes much of its light for our posterity by trying to genius to the collective •wisdom that see that these linguistic minorities we have inherited through the centuries are not only effectively from Sanskrit, from Brijbasha, from safeguarded but they are considered as Prakrit, not to speak of Arabic and Persian. members of the common family and that Yet, as Mr. Sapru very eloquently asked, with a sense oi brotherhood and fraternity how are we going to extend our token of we have to see that we encourage their goodwill of love and sympathy for the Arab language and culture and their recruitment world and for Persia when you want to to our public services. After all, for a knock the bottom of their tradition democracy, the good conduct certificate in this country and yet pretend for the majorities vests with the minority. to be friends with them who It is not for you to say that you are running constitute thirty or thirty-five countries the Government good yourself. That does along the members of the United Nations in not become a certificate. Only an idiot the world to-day? I ask, in the very praises himself. Interest of our own safety and security, for the very preservation of our non-alignment, it becomes but meet and necessary and a SHRI LOKANATH MISRA (Orissa): paramount responsibility that we have got The Opposition must say. to preserve that language and foster it and as my esteemed friend and great SHRI N. M. ANWAR: Yes. The parliamentarian, Mr. A. D. Mani, said, that Opposition constitutes the minority will •be the proof of our generosity. opinion. From every point of view, a That will be the proof of our national soli- linguistic minority, a racial minority, a darity. The strength of a chain depends on religious minority, a political minority its weakest link and break that link and you will have to sit in judgment over the break that chain. Where is this national conduct of the majority in a democracy consolidation when you want to trample and a certificate of good conduct from this amalgam of composite culture— such minorities will be the most tre- Urdu—under your feet? mendous and eloquent testimony to the vitality of our national solidarity and to the statesmanship of our national leadership.

3857 Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3858 Report of Commissioner Minorities [Shri N. M. Anwar.] ly to the Muslim community spread all Therefore, I believe that in all these over this country, to the fifty, sixty matters, what is required is that we must millions of the Muslims of India. Let me have a large heart and a good mind that give them this warning, born out of my can live up to the challenge of our own experience, and my love for their situation. Therefore, I feel that with the welfare that they have got to join the flesh and blood of love and goodwill we common stream of national life. While I have to fill the dry bones of our can understand and applaud the Constitution. These safeguards are mere provisions about the mother-tongue at the scraps of paper, not worth even the ink primary stage, at the secondary stage, Mr. that has been wasted on these pages, Vice-Chairman, it is different. Let me tell unless it be that they are translated into you, that the Urdu minority which action, unless it be that they are converted numbers some 80 to 90 millions in this into reality, unless it be—and the wearer country, they should take to the regional only knows where the shoe pinches—that language, to the language of their I, as a linguistic minority, because Urdu environment, the language of their is my mother-tongue as a racial surroundings, the language of the market- minority— because I belong to the place, as their language for instruction, Dravidian stock—and as a religious minority— because I am a Muslim—as a for education and for employment, and regional minority—because I am of the for their national get-togetherness, South— unless I try to give expression to particularly, when Hindi is so close to the good conduct of the majority, I Urdu. That is but meet and proper. I can believe there cannot be an assurance of give the example of that great safeguard for the minority which the educationist, leader and founder of the founding-fathers of our Constitution have Aligarh Muslim ^University, Sir Syed provided. Ahmed Khan when a century ago presented this formula to the nat;on and A very valuable observation was made said that the community in order to be by that distinguished Governor of this lifted from the backwaters of our society, country, Mr. Jairamdas Daulat-ram . . should begin to impart education in . English, should take to English education, which had been dubbed as "haram" by the SHRI A. D. MANI: Ex-Governor. divines, by the religious leaders of the community, in the'r hatred for foreign SHRI N. M. ANWAR: Once a Gov- rule I say, let us remember this and ernor, always a Governor. From out of address ourselves to this work, and in the the blood spilt in the Brahmaputra valley interest of the solidarity of the country, came the cry for the cause of national lest we be left in the backwaters of integration. Mark the words, the cry came society, let us see that we adopt the because he felt that linguistic fanaticism regional language as our own. That is has raised its ugly head dividing the exactly what I have myself provided for communities in Assam horizontally and in thp inst:tutions which are under my vertically. Then it was the country's management, the Islamia College, leadership which had been challenged to Vaniya, Badim the Islamiah High School face the problem of nat'onai integration. It at Pernambut, and so on. is a very s?.d commentary that after fifteen years of our freedom, we still AN HON. MEMBER: How are their should have to find out ways and means accounts? of how best we can foster our national integration. Mr. Vice-Chairman, I must SHRI N M. ANWAR: Their accounts give a warning to the minority groups are wonderfully fool-proof. myself, particular- 3859 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3860 Report of Commissioner Minorities THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. Mr. Vice-Chairman, one more point GOVINDA REDDY) : Your time is finished. and I am done. I have got the highest admu. *ion for the most ancient language AN HON. MEMBER; What about the that this country has ever produced. development of Tamil language? While Mr. Santhanam and Mr. Chordia THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHM M. pleaded for Sanskrit and that its study GOVINDA RDEEY): YOU must conclude should be provided for in all the States, I now. was very happy, because they played int0 my hands. I myself said long ago that SHRI N. M. ANWAR; Two more there should be this four-language minutes and I am done. Mr. Vice- formula, not tnree-language formula. Chairman, I have a few observations to make with reference to Tamil. Why AN. HON. MEMBER: Now it will be a should the headquarters of this four-language formula. Commissioner for Linguistic Minorities be located at Allahabad? That itself if proof of a certain dominance. The Uttar SHRI N. M. ANWAR: There should be Pradesh, the State to which the Prime this four-language formula for the Minister belongs, has not given a good solution of this problem. Mr. Vice- account of itseif in matters of the Chairman, Sanskrit is anterior to the linguistic minorities. It is the worst sinner other languages and I want the entire and I am sorry I have to lay this charge at country to start learning it right from the the door of Uttar base so that all the communities and Pradesh. sections may be equally placed in the ■ matter of acquiring proficiency in that THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. language, the lanugage of our ancestors, GOVINDA REDDY) : You proceed to the our forefathers rather than allow Hindi next point. language which is dominating some 50 or 60 or 80 millions of this country in SHRI N. M. ANWAR: Mr. Vice- order to have a superiority over the rest Chairman, my State in the South has of the country, and that naturally impedes Tamil . . . the progress of national solidarity.

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. One more point and I finish. Of all the GOVINDA REDDY): You have only one languages of the world, the moat ancient more minute. is a language which has been in existence for some 17,500 years or so, and that is SHRI N. M. ANWAR: I am developing Tamil, a language which has been living my point. there since Adam dropped from Heaven. Adams Rock is in Tamilnad. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. GOVINDA REDDY): You are develcping SHRI A. M. TARIQ; Adam nothing. spoke Tamil?

AN HON. MEMBER: What about THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. Tamil? GOVINDA REDDY): Order, order.

SHRI N. M. ANWAR; Therefore, Mr. SHRI N. M. ANWAR; I want Tamil to Vice-Chairman, I feel that the be known all over this country, There headquarters should be shifted to a more must be a National Institute for Tamil cordial atmosphere. After all it is the Culture at the capital of India. climate of public opinion, of goodwill and love that must be fostered for the linguistic minorities in the country. 86l Motion regarding [ RAJYA SABHA ] for Linguistic 3862 Report of Commissioner Minorities SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN (Andhra SHRIMATI TARA RAMACHANDRA Pradesh); You want Tamil dominance? SATHE (Maharashtra): Mr. Vice-Chairman, I congratulate the hon. Minister for placing this THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. Report of the Commissioner for Linguistic GOVINDA REDDY): YOU conclude now. Minorities—the Fifth Report—before the House for consideration. I ffiTty agree with SHRI N M. ANWAR: I am only saying that the hon. Member, Shri Jairamdas Daulatram, we must try to preserve a language which has that it is the duty of the majority to make tho; never been a dead language, a language which minorities feel that they are treated as younger has been living for the last 17,000 years and brothers, as members of the same family. I more, a wonderful language of solidarity, remember one saying —Do to others a? you harmony and love for all. would like others to do to you. This is a golden rule of life and, Sir, we must SHRIMATI C. AMMANNA RAJA (Andhra remember that in on State one language may Pradesh): We are discussing the linguistic e be the majority language, but it is the minority minorities. language in some other States. So, I feel that we must create confidence in the minorities, THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. in the people speaking the minority language GOVINDA REDDY) : Let him finish. as also in the religious minorities, and give them every facility that is needed. Sir, I feel SHRI N. M. ANWAR: I am talking about that it is the duty of the Members of this Tamil which the hon. Member does not House to put the grievances, if any of the know. minor'ties in the different Stqt^s before the Union Government and request the SHRTMATI C. AMMANNA RAJA: I know. Government to look into the matter. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M.

GOVINDA REDDY): Mr, Anwar, you must Sir. the decision taken bv the Ministerial conclude now. You have already exceeded Committee of the Southern Zonal Council your time. regarding electoral rolls has not been implemented. To quote from the Report, on SHRI N. M. ANWAR: Yes, Sir. I conclude page 97, paragraph 587, it has been stated: now. I only say that there must be a National Institute of Tamil Culture at the Headquarters "Inasmuch as the people of the country of the Republic of India here for disseminat- are expected to take a serious 'nterest in the ing the glories of this most ancient language election to panchayats and local bodies and of the world, the language of love and they have already begun to do so, it is goodwill for all humanity. desirable that the decision of the Southern Zonal Council is implemented without any THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. further loss of time This would appear GOVINDA REDDY) : Shrimati Tara possible onV if. as suggested h^ the Ramachandra Sathe. Election Commission, the Southern States amend their existin? laws to enib'e SHRI ARJUN ARORA (Uttar Pradesh): Mr. publication of electoral rolb of panchayat Vice-Chairman, before you call on another and local bodies In minority languages." hon. Member, please give me an opportunity to refute the allegations made by Mr. Anwar, that Uttar Pradesh has not treated the Urdu- speaking people properly. That is wrong, absolutely wrong.

3863 Motion regarding [ 17 DEC. 1963 ] for Linguistic 3864 Report of Commissioner Minorities 1 would request the Government to shall be kept like that. As the hon. look into this matter. Member himself explained, in Balgaum the population is 52 per cent Marathi- speaking. Secondly, I would like to say something about the proportion of the The hon. Member, Mr, Desai, and also membership of the Municipal Council Mr. Govinda Reddy, mentioned in their itself. speeches about the minutes or the proceedings of the Belgaum Municipality. I would like to refer to that THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. matter and say something more about it. GOVINDA REDDY): You can continue According to some, it is learnt that the tomorrow. The House now stands Mysore Assembly has passed a Bill adjourned till 11 A.M. tomorrow. which says that the proceedings shall be kept in Kannada and in English if the The House then adjourned at Municipal Council so resolves. That is to five of the clock till eleven of say that the minutes of the proceedings the clock on Wednesday the 18th December, 1963.

GMGIPND—RS—869 RS—3-2-64—590