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Lush 20 Mar 1999 Transcript United Nations Oral History Project David Lush 20 March 1990 ST/reilST/rei/ Of/lLDrilL Ht JTorzY(V 2 Jj L-I Yale-UN Oral History Project David Lush Jean Krasno, Interviewer March 20, 1999 Namibia Index: Namibia Apartheid 4, 15~16 Cold War 56 Democratic Tumhalle Alliance (DTA) 39-40,46,49,51-55 Human rights 11 Koevoet 32-35,44-45,48 Namibia Elections 2,12, 14,45,47,50-55 Independence 2,5,7-11,3~ 47, 57 The Namibian 1-3,5-10,19-20,22,43,46 Ponhofi boycott 25-26 Resolution 435 25 National Democratic Institute (NDI) 49 South African Defense Force (SADF) 32,44 South African Press Agency 41 South African Truth and Reconciliation Commission 8 South West African Broadcast Corporation 2,10,46-50 South West African Police Organization (SW(SWAPO)APO) 11-12, 14,20-21,24,29-31,33-36,39-40,43, 45, 48, 51-56 South West Afi:ican Territorial Force 32 UNliN Transition Assistance Group (UNTAG) 46 Yale -- UN Oral History David Lush InterviewedInterviewed by: Jean Krasno March 20, 1999 Namibia Jean Krasno: This isis an interviewinterviewwith David Lush inin Windhoek, Namibia on thth March 20 ,, 1999, and II firstfirst wanted toto say thankthank you so much forfor lettingletting me come and do this,this, and wanted toto mention your book, thethe titletitle of which isis Last Steps toto lJhuru.lJhuru. And thethe publisher isis New NamibianNarnibian Books, so ififpeople want toto trytry toto get itit theythey could trytry there.there. So toto begin with, could you justjusttelltell us a littlelittle bit about your background and where you were born and educated and thenthen when you arrived ininNamibia? David Lush: I'mI'm a freelancefreelancejournalist.journalist. II was born and grew up and studied inin thethe U.K., came toto Namibia inin thethe beginning of 1988, toto work as volunteer forfor The Namibian newspaper, which at thethe timetime was reallyreally sort ofthethe only media organization within Namibia which tooktook a pro-independence stance. II came purely out ofcuriosity, as II said, justjust as a volunteer toto see what was going on inin Namibia, and eleven years laterlater I'mI'm still here, having obviously arrived at an incrediblyincredibly momentous time.time. And working forfor The Namibian newspaper, was luckylucky enough toto have thisthis front-rowfront-row seat ofthethe independenceindependenceprocess, as itit unfolded. And so, obviously, thethe developments happening as theythey were, was thethe reasonreason II stayed toto see itit throughthrough and thenthen after independence,independence, settled down here, and as II say, I'm still here. Having been luckylucky enough toto witness thethe independence process, thethe birth ofofaa newnew nation,nation, whichwhich veryveryfewfewpeoplepeople dodo havehavethethe chance toto do, I thoughtthought itit was importantimportanttoto atat leastleast getget mymy ownown impressionsimpressions downdownonon paper so I could write thisthis book, whichwhichwaswas published. JK: What isis the year ofpublication? DL: It was published inin '93,'93, soso ititjustjust dealsdeals withwith sortsort ofofthetheperiodperiod '88'88toto '92,'92,thethe transition toto independence,independence, and focusesfocuses largelylargelyononthethe daysdays beforebefore independence,independence,thethelastlast days of South African rule,rule, thethe independenceindependence process,process, thetheU.N.-monitoredV.N.-monitoredelections,elections, andand then thethe very early days ofindependence.independence. JK: Okay, okay. Actually, describedescribe toto meme aalittlelittle bitbitaboutaboutthethe newspaper,newspaper, TheThe Namibian, because II was surprisedsurprised toto seesee thatthat itit waswas allowedallowed toto existexist toto aa celiainceliainextentextent during thatthat period oftime, because asas youyou say,say, itit waswas pro-independence,pro-independence, andandyetyetmuchmuchofof the media, includingincluding radioradio -- South WestWest AfricanAfrican BroadcastBroadcast CorporationCorporation-- waswas reallyreally controlled by thethe govel11ment here. SoSo howhowwaswas ititthatthat TheThe NamibianNamibian waswasreallyreally allowedallowed to exist? DL: Well, 'cause'cause therethere were nono lawslaws preventingpreventingit.it. Yes,Yes, II supposesuppose itit-- ififyouyoulooklookatat that was thethe nature ofthethe South AfricanAfrican regime,regime, II meanmean itit waswas thethe samesame inin SouthSouthAfrica.Africa. You had a private sector. The mediamedia waswas notnotnecessarilynecessarily state-controlled.state-controlled. NowNowlargelylargely the private media was -- you had thethe businessbusiness interestsinterests alignedaligned withwiththethe SouthSouthAfricanAfrican regime, thethe minority regimeregime inin SouthSouthAfricaAfrica andand similarlysimilarly ininNamibia.Namibia. ButButtheretherewaswas 22 nothing preventing other people from setting up. Now having said that, an attempt was made, when The Namihian tried to register as a company, usually it was a fOlTI1ality for any media organization to register, and you paid a fairly small fee. I the authorities suddenly slapped on a 20 grand registration fee, which would have bankrupted the newspaper from day one. This is back in 1985, when 20 grand was a hell ofa lot of money. So obviously there was an attempt to stop it, there, and the Namibian challenged that decision and won, and so the paper was allowed to register. JK: That's very interesting, that in a certain sense there was a kind ofrule oflaw that wasn't controlled by the state. DL: Yeah, as I say, it was sort ofone ofthose, I think - because you didn't have de facto - it was a dictatorship. It was an undemocratic regime, but it was still- the whole nature ofthe law - there was still SOli ofscope within the law, and this -- I think this was why probably the South African regime in Namibia, and celiainly the nationalist party in South Africa, was actually fighting a losing battle, 'cause'cause it hadn't established - it inherited infrastructure (legal infrastructure, social infrastructure, whatever) which again itself was a bit ofa mish-mash ofdifferent periods ofhistory. And so it didn't establish a system, therefore it didn't inherit an authoritarian regime per se. So it was always trying to damn up the holes, and again I'm sure after The Namibian appealed --well maybe not in this case -- but it was always having to apply legislation, and then when there was a gap found in it had to damn it up. And in the end resulted in South Africa to a state of emergency and tried to do it in Namibia, but there was always these gaps, and as long as 3 you had sort ofa courageous alternative media, comageous alternative lavvyerslavvyers whowho werewere prepared to challenge that system and you had the funds ---- mobilize thethe fundsfunds toto dodo it,it, these people you could sometimes make your way through.through. JK: Well was it because there were a number of South African white andand GelmanGelman whites and so forth that wanted a system oflaw, a rule of lawlaw here inin Narnibia, thatthat inin fact the government had to maintain some kind of semblance ofthethe rulerule ofoflaw?law? IsIs thatthat aa possible interpretation? DL: Apartheid was a legal regime. Apartheid was based on legislation,legislation, soso ininthatthat respect it was pretty disgraceful legislation, but itit was legislationlegislation nonetheless. SoSo therethere was - yes, there was that fundamental belief in the rule oflaw,law, be itit perverse lawlaw oror bebe itit whatever -- JK: Democratic law. DL: Democratic law. There was this belief in it.it. So therethere was a belief inin thethe legallegal system. And therefore it was only when that - out ofdesperation -- that'sthat's whywhy II thinkthink itit was known - Apartheid regime was probably always onto a loser.loser. At thethe veryvery endend itit resorted to extra-judicial means, but for a long time itit was tryingtrying toto peg itsits -- thisthis repression on a system of law. Now of comse, in a war situation thatthat systemsystem ofoflawlaw brokebroke down largely, and that's what you had the case in thethe North ofthethe country. BattlesBattles werewere 4 fought in court. So as longlong as you had thethe peoplepeople toto challengechallenge thethe law,law, nono mattermatter howhow oppressive it was, therethere was quite often aa loophole.loophole. JK: That's really fascinating.fascinating. But II wantedwanted toto askask oneone moremore questionquestion aboutaboutthethe newspaper itself,itself, because II was readingreading anan account,account, actuallyactually today,today, thatthatduringduring thatthattimetime that there were death t1ueatstlueats against thethe editoreditor ofofTheThe Namibian.Namibian. DoDo youyou knowknowanythinganything about that? DL: I know - again, thisthis isis sortsortofthethe -- TTthink,think, asas youyou say,say, asas wewe sortsortofoffoundfound out,out, there was this sort of extra-judicial elementelement toto thethe ApartheidApartheidregime,regime, particularlyparticularly-- well,well, obviously in South Africa itselfitself-- but inin Namibia,Namibia, SOliSOli ofofbeingbeingthethe frontier,frontier, andand thesethese covert activities. So you had thisthis very murkymurky -- itit waswas obviouslyobviously-- a a lotlotofofititwaswasstate­state- sponsored or certainly done inin thethe name ofofthethe state,state, byby thethe securitysecurityforces,forces, butbut again,again, notnot overtly done so. So you never quite knewknewwhowho thesethese peoplepeople were.were. DeathDeaththreats?threats? Yes,Yes, particularly as thethe independenceindependence
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