COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA HOUSS OF BBPR2SBNTATIVES C0MNITTS3 ON APPH0PRIATI0N3
In rei Budget Bequest - 1983 * 1984 Drexel University
« « « Verbatim report of hearing held in Room 401, I-lain Capitol Building, riarrisburg, Pennsylvania, on Monday, February 28, 1983 2tOO P. H.
;xw. HAX KESVSKY, CHAIRMT Bon. Kurt 3wikl, Vice Chairman Hon. Joseph K« Hoeffel, III* Secretary Hon. H. William DeWeese, Chairman, Subcommittee on Capital Budget Hon. James W. Iiolntyre, Chairman, Subcommittee Health and Welfare Hon. Ralph Pratt, Chairman, Subcommittee on Hflucation MBEBBftS OF C0MMITT5S ON APPROPBIATI0N3 Hon. Mary Ann Arty Hon. Joseph C. Manmlller don. Gibson Armstrong Hon. Richard A. iicClatohy Hon. Thomas a. Caltaglrone Hon. Gerald F. MoMonagle don, Italo 3. Cappablanoa Hon. George Hlsoevioh Hon. Brian D. Clark Hon. Nicholas B. Koehlmann Hon. Roy i. Cornell Hon. Howard F. Howery, Jr. Hon. Ronald R. Cowell Hon, Frank Pistella Jon. Alphonso Deal Hon. George F. Pott, Jr. Hon. Dwight Evans Hon. Carmel Slrlannl Hon. Stephen Frelnd Hon. William J. Stewart Hon. Allen Kukovioh Hon. Ted Stuban Hon. Joseph Levi, III don. M-ward A. Wiggins Hon. Stephen 3. Levin Hon. Peter B. Vroon
Reported byt Jerry Heck, Reporter
Dorotliy M- Malone Regirtered Professional Reporter 135 5- Landit Street |—jummelctown, Pennsylvania 17036 ?.
ALSO PRBSMTi Hepresentative *tf.win G. Johnson aepresentativo Samuel W. uorria 3iward Nolan Staff Craig McCulloh Staff
Page
Dr. William W. Hagarty 3 11 12 14 18 3
CRAIRMAW 3tfIKLt I am Representative Kurt Zwikl from Lehigh County. With me, to my left, Is Representative Deal from Philadelphia and Representative Johnson from Blair County, the Altoona area, To my right is Representative Levin from Philadelphia also. I would like to begin with a few opening question*. First, if you would Introduce the gentlemen with you, Dr. Hagerty. DR. HAGBBTYi My name is William Hagerty and X am president of Drexel University. On my right is Joseph Ragg. He is our comptroller. On my Immediate left is Dr. Bernard Sagik, and he is Vice President for Academic Affairs, text to him is Mr. J. K. Lee Smith, who is our Vice President of Affairs & Gov't. Community/Relations. Over on the far right is Tom Shannon, who Is the Assistant Vice President for Community Affairs. , Would you want me to start, Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN SWIKLi I believe we will start with the questioning. It has been the procedure to open with questions. If you want to make any other comments at that point, then feel free to do so. BY CHAIRMAN 30IKL (To Dr. Hagerty)i Q I would like to begin with the budget figure that
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the governor lias requested for you. I believe that the appropriation in the governor'* budget Is the same from this past or current fiscal year. My question is, what will the impact be initially at least in viewing this figure as it remains the same for you in the next academic year? A That figure, as you know, is about $4.08 million. We had asked for just short of $6 million* However, making up our budget on the number recommended by the governor, X anticipate that we.will have a tuition increase at right about 11 per cent of $480.00. there will also probably be a fees increase of $15*00. 3o it will be just short of a $500.00 expense to the students. q Will that be for a semester or for the year? A That's for the year. q In the same place in your statement on page 10 of the document that you submitted, you indicated a deficit of $426,267.00? A Correct. Q And that is for fiscal year •82**83. The request that you have made or are making of the Legislature, will that make up that deficit and then add some additional funds to head off a tuition increase? A We had projected — if we had gotten these funds, 5
we proJeoted a tuition increase in the range of 7 to 8 P*? cent, 'tow, what we have been doing at Prexel is that we have three unusual lines of expense that we are going to try and flat out over the next five years. One of them is that we are changing all of our administrative computing over and that will be an item in the range of $5 million dollars. We have announced to all of our freshmen — we started out to have all of our engineers and science majors come in and bring their own personal computers, but everybody got on the bandwagon and that*s going to be 100 per cent* That will require Drexel to put in about $2 million dollars worth of printers and accessory equipment so that these students don*t have to buy the accessory equipment to go with these personal computers. Then we have a separate program to finance the computers. About eighty per cent of our students are on some degree of financial aid., 3o we will have to finance the program so that they will either give it to them or work It out over a period of time. In anticipation of this budget, what I am trying to say to you is, we are going over the whole thing. He are not going to not do anything. We are probably going to have to get a bond grant to produce the money to do these things and to pay it out over a period of years. Q You mentioned on page 3 about the Implementation of the Student Computerization Program, and I assume that that is what you were referring to? A, That's correct. $ This refers to the ^2-milllon-dollar expenditure? A That will be what we have because, when the student comes in, he brings it in like a typewriter and he has to have some place to plug it in. One of the reasons that we are going to this is not only the computer literacy thing but because we are 50 per cent computer. Bight now, all of our students take a certain number of computer science coursest and, before finals and the like on weekends, they are often over in the Computer Center to one, two or three in the morning, and their folks don't like it very much when they have to come home at that time. That goes to the fact that practically everybody at Drexel co-ops. This will enable them to take their computer out on co-op jobs and it should help their co-op assignments. Q You mentioned co-op on several occasions, and X believe it was discussed at length either last year or the period before. Would you just briefly describe it again for the members what the co-op program is? ?
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I think it Is an excellent program and you sent me some material as a follow-up, and X think it would be beneficial If you would just explain that briefly. A As I said, we have one program that doesn't require a co-op. It used to be called a four-year program of Business for Women. Well, that's a woman*3 thing and that would be kind of restrictive, So it's Just a four-year program for business. Svery other program, all engineering, all science all home economics, fashion design, all liberal arts are 100 per cent co-op. The student comes to Drexel in his or her freshman year and goes through the full year from September until June. At that point, the class is split in half. Salt continue from June until December, and half go out in jobs which we get for them* Well, they probably get a few but we probably get 98 per cent of them. The work on that job and this job Is related to their course of study. If they are in civil engineering, It might be construction. If It's fashion design, they might be working at Saks Fifth Avenue or so on. Finance, they may be working in the banks. At the end of six months, in other words, their
• 1 first year* they switch and so on through the rest of the program, in engineering and science, they go the last three quarters consecutively, bat in all the other programs they do this back and forth, and it has a lot of benefit besides earning about on an average 35*000.00 for a elx-asonth period, which takes care of their tuition at the new rate. They also get experience. Their Job offers are about equivalent to a raster's degree offer in terms of money they have had a year and a half of experience. Eight now* for instance, a young nan came in and invited me out to dinner at his fraternity house* You have to get a student at ease and I said, "Jell, where are you co-oping?" And he said, »'IBK." X asked him if ha was staying with them,, and he said, "They have already offered me a job*" The point that I am making is that people will graduate in June of '8**, and they have already selected this man and he seleoted the company and toey are going through with it. Q Because of his experience in the co-op program? A Yes, sir. Q X think that is great and X asked you to repeat it even though X am aware of it because X wanted it on the
—<>••• - i....».. —••• !•• ,—i • • ..ii !•• -• • • record and for the benefit of the other members of the Committee. A X appreciate you giving me this chance to explain the program. , q One additional Question. What has been your experience with respect to faoulty in terms of them perhaps getting higher salaries or being more competitive in private industry? Are you losing faculty or having any difficulty maintaining them? A A short answer to that is, "Yes, we are." In the last two years, we have lost thirty-one faculty members. The reason that 1 know that is because I made a study to present to our Board of Trustees. Ten of them didn't really make their tenure. Ten of them were pretty good people, but they got better offers. Steven of them were outstanding people. Outstanding people. They left us and you know you ean't tell a young civil engineer he can't co-op or can't consult with United Engineers, but he goes to work for thera at twice the salary. Finance majors go to work for the banks. Just any field that you can think of. We had a young lady at Drexel for three years and she went to work for Eormel, one 10
of the meat packing companies, riormel Research Laboratories, and she is a nutritionist, dhe is outstanding! but, you know $25*000,00 just isn't in the same ball park as 345*000.00 and a fringe package. So what we are doing is that we are now starting what we call a Hlni-drant Program. We employ this young person and he or she gets a grant of $2 or #3.000.00 to start their research and get them going. Je have to put them through the system because there are people who will just teach. We have to be sure that we get those. But there are people who will go either way and that's going to get tougher and tougher* especially slnoe the demographics is such that the number of eighteen-year- olds is declining. 4s I know, several of you know and I know she knows, that number is going to be down in the northeast about 40 per cent in 1995* That is going to be a real problem. Bight how, we can see it in our graduate students, X native American kid that can get a good job isn't coming to graduate school. I would say that more than naif of our full-time graduate students are foreign nationals. But we are employing a certain number of foreign nationals as teachers. We have to have them give lectures to make sure that they speak jSnglish in a way that the \ 11
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freshmen can understand them* CHAIBLAN 2tfIKLi Thank you very much. Representative Levin, do you have any questions? B^SERSSSNTATIVE LEVINt Yes. a few. BY HEPRSSSJTATIVB LOT*! (To Dr. 2agerty)i Q X was a little concerned. In your State Aid hequest on pages 10 and 11, you Indicate that* at one time, back In the *73-'7i+ era, the State Aid constituted 11,5 per oent of your operating budget and now It Is down to 6,5 per cent of your operating budget. Is that primarily because we haven*t Increased the aid as rapidly as the overall escalation of costs? A That's correct. Our State Aid -me once as nigh as 1^ per oent and it has gradually drifted down. Thn number of dollars has increased very slowly, much slower than the Inflation rate and the effect of this is that, while we have been moderately successful in our fund-raising, nevertheless our tuition has gone up about equal to the inflation rate and this year it will be higher. Q I see that. That's in the next paragraph. Basically what has happened is that your tuition is now up to 66 per oent of your operating budget. That's a very high total compared to the other universities coning 12
In here. A That's correct. It was down in the nigh 50's there for quite some period of years. Q What is your tuition, basically, now? A Joe? Kxi. HAGGt Currently, it's $4,1*00.00, plus we have a general fee that all undergraduates pay of $318.00. That's our basic tuition, that's our five-year student cost, student tuition. The one five-year program that £r. Hagerty talked about is a little higher. That's §5,236.00. BY E£FB&EKTATIVi5 LSVXit (To Dr. Hagerty)s Q So you're around «j&,?00.00 for tuition alone? What would you estimate that it costs a student to go there, Including room and board? A About ,£3,000.00 more. Eoom and board is 42,400.00. Transportation prices may be down a little bit but transport ation has gotten fairly substantial. There isn't all that zr.uoh difference between commuting and living on campus any more. As a matter of fact* wo have many students who would live on campus if we had enough dormitory rooms for them. Q What percentage of your students are from Pennsylvania? A Seventy OP seventy-one per cent. Q Has that been a rather constant figure? A Yes* It's Interesting. The number of students from outside the five-county area around Philadelphia* from what I trill call outside Pennsylvania, are about equal to the number of students from ^ew Jersey and Delaware. So we have about ?0 per cent In Pennsylvania and 70 per cent from within about a thirty-five mile radius, tfe don't let those students room*. Q Which students can't room? 4 Upperolassmen who live within thirty miles of the campus can't get a room* we figure if they want to live on the campus, they will have to get an apartment* Q They can get a room from private enterprise? A Yes. we guarantee the freshmen a room but that's it. Q If we increase the appropriation to the amount requested, what would that do to the projected tuition increase? A We talked, about that in the last few days. Ve tafee that fact to 8 per cent. Q What does that work out to? You gave us a tuition increase of $^80.00.
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A It would be just about -3380.00. RiFRHSSSJTATIVS LSVINi Thank you very much, CHAIBKAK ZWIKLJ Representative Deal. BY R3M.33EWTATIVS DSftL (To Dr. Hagerty)i A 33^. Excuse me. I'm not sure of that. X have to back off. That's minority students. There may be some Spanish types in there. I can't tell you just for the blacks, Q .You would be able to include that when you send me the rest of the information? A tfellf we'll get close. Q Can you tell me how many black members are part of your faculty? A Six. Q Out of how many? A 330. Q How about tenured faculty? A Three. I think it's three. ioree and three. IftpQB tenured and three nontenured. Q I see. How, how. about in your administration, the number of deans that you have across the board? A We don't have any black deans, We have assistant deans, associate deans and various lands of administrators. I will have to give you a better number, but X will say for now about twenty. Q X hope that you will be able to be closer when you send your report in? A Wo'll do our best, sir. 16 Q How about department heads, Dr.? A No. Q My last question is — A Excuse me. I assume you are talking about aoademio departments? <\ Yes. A Yes. We have black nonaoademio department heads. Q Like what? A Like purchasing. Q You might send that also and give us a clearer picture. A All right. q My last question is, the University spends quite a sum of money and I am Interested in the participation of minority vendors, the number of minority vendors by name and the dollar amount? A We don't know that number right now. q Will you see that we get it? A Yes, sir. REPE39OTATIV.S D6AL1 Thank you, sir. CHAIRKA3 SWIKLi Representative Sirianni, any questions? RKPRS9SN7ATIV3 SIBIAWNIt fto. 17 CHAIRMAN ZtflKLt Representative Johnson? a33ftS3S?TATIV2 JOHNSONt X would just like to say that I was not familiar with the co-op program. X think that Is an excellent Idea. X was amused when X graduated from college and X didn't know anything about personal computers, and you say that every student will bring his owni and that shows how times have changed. REEHESBNTATIVE LEVIN* They just changed now, So don't feel had about that. '• They just Instituted that program. DR. HAGSSTXi They have all been taking* like, three computer science courses for several years? and what has happened is that about 15 or 20 per cent of the students have bought their own personal computers and X guess It's this kind and that kind, and they are starting to use them In more and more classes In this commuting thing that X was telling you about. So we thought that If we would order them and the student doesn't have to buy any particular one. vte are right now under Dr. Saglk's leadership trying to work out a good deal. We think that we will be able to get a student an excellent computer, say, a $3,000*00 or 33.500.00 computer for something In the range of $1,200.00 or $1,500.00, which he will pay $1*00.00 a term. ' '•• ' ' ' • ••• • i • l| ' •••••m— I •••••!•• I • ••!> . ••••!• .1 II •• ^i -• •"•• • • •—— ' ' ' ' —-J 13 •••)•! I IIMIII—II I I .«•••- —•.•^-•.—Tl..|. IM-I! I I I •••••< -•>• •• • II HI •••••! II I • • •! •••••• I BY REFBB3E&TATIVE LBVI2I (To Dr. Hagerty)i Q That requirement is that every incoming freshman has to have his own computer? A That's correct* Q So that will be part of the requirement? A That*8 correct. RBPSB3SNTATIVE LSVINi That co-operative program that you are just finding out about was at Drezel when I was going to Perm, in the very early fifties. PR. HAG&RTYt It's been there slnoe 1920. HEFBSSSNTATIVS LBVINi The matriculation is actually five years instead of four. Isn't that correct? DR. HAG&TYi That's right. REPRESENTATIVE LEVINi Thank you. CHAIRMAN SWIKLi Representative Korrls,- any questions? REPRESENTATIVE HOBBISi No. CHAlRPiAN SWIKLi That's about it then. Thank you very much. I hereby certify that the proceedings and evidence taken by me before the House of Representatives, Committee on -i • . . ••...-•- .I • I.. — ..,•••,„•—,-,.. ,,—,, . ,i„,..,. -— • ,••••—,,,. ,• ••—•—— 19 ^v>—*—^^i ••••_•••••! •• >^^w_ I • •—•••••. i .i ui, Mia«Ha_iia • —aM^_v>— ••- l| Appropriations, are fully and accurately indicated In my notes and that this Is a true and correct transcript of same* J.erry iiafck, Court Bsporter/em