2120 2120ASSEMBLY.] lowing his dependants to receive the lump sum that would have been payable to the worker had he lived. Tuesday, the 8th November, 1966 There have been cases of the worker dying and not receiving weekly payments, CONTENTS though this entitlement had accrued. The ANNUAL ESTIMATES, 1968-47- Page Workers' Compensation Board has been Coammlties of Supply *Votes and [teas Discussedi 2169 allowing these claims by dependants, al- though entertaining doubts in the matter. ASSENT TO BILLS...... 2125 A provision has therefore been included BILLS- Fire Brigades Acl Amendment Bll-Assent ... 2125 to cover claims by dependants. where the Pluoridal ion of Publc Waler Supplie[s B2III-Retnrned 2125 worker's rights to weekly payments have Industrial Arbitration Aot Amendment Bill (No. 2)- Intro.; Ir. 22 existed for six months, although payments Public Service Acl Amendment Bil-...... 22 have not been made during that period. Intro. ; Ir...... 2 5 Public Service Appeal Board Act Amendment Bill- 22 The Bill also incorporates an alteration Intro.; Ir., ...... - .. 2 2 in principle insomuch that the difference Public Service Arbitration rnB...... 22 in maximum payments between total and intro. ; Ir 1 ...... 2125 Ptblic Works Act Amendment B111--Assent .. 2125 partial incapacity is removed. Payments Road and Air Transport Commissien Bili- for partial incapacity are at present limited Message : Appropriations...... 2125 to a percentage of the amount paid for Slate Transport Ce-ordinatien Bill- 2r...... 2127 total incapacity. Corn. 2155 The second schedule to the Act was re- Workers' Comrnsa [onAoct A mendment B II~ pealed and re-enacted In 1964, and fixes Report ; r...... 2125 the maxima for specified injuries. A pro- "HANsARD": PUBLICATION ON TUESDAYS =..15 portionate adjustment to the maxima for QUESTIONS ON NOTICE- specified injuries is included as a comnple- Education- amendment to the proposal to in- Cendicgup School: Toilet Facilities.,...... 2122 mentary Teachurs! Training Collages~ crease the absolute maximum payment for Addiienal Establishment, and Capacity 2122 death or total disablement from $7,000 to flunbury :Establishment...... 2122 $10,000. Claremont and Graylands :Enrolments ... 2122 University, and Un ivers ity College-Country Second schedule payments have invari- Centres.: Selected Sites...... 2124 Midland Junction Abattoir :Increased Charges, and ably been in proportion to first schedule Establishment of Meat NRail...... 2124 payments. For example, the ratio was Mineral Sands Deposits.-Non-development Action maintained in 1964 when the absolute against Leasehoides...... 2121 Ord Diver Scheme Irrigable Land ...... 2120 maximum was increased from the equival- Potaloec--Castage Irregularity In Tenderig 2122 ent of $4,800 to $7,000. Public Debt ,Per Capila In Western Austrail 2121 Railways ;Freight on Ammoniturn Nitrate 2124 Members will appreciate that, in the Recads-Murray Shire Distrit: Costs end Pro- Interests of injured workers and their de- grammne...... 2123 pendants, it is desirable to review payment Swan River ;inspectinn of Upper Reaches by Members of Parliament 2121 scales from time to time and, in this light, Town Plnnnlng-Bletropsllitan Area Determlne- the measure now being introduced for this tion of Road Systems...... 123 purpose is commended to members. Transport- Air Transport--Charter Aircraft Nfumber I desire to add that this Bill was amended Licensed and Operating...... 2121. in another place in order to give the board Transport Advisory Board :Membership .... 2121 a discretion in the maximum amount of QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE- medical and hospital expenses payable. As Old Pollee Statiton at Albany ;Present Use of Holding mentioned earlier, the Bill increases this Goal ...... 2125 maximum amount from $1,350 to $1,500, Porntecs,-Csarige 'Irregularity In Tendering ... 2125 and the amendment which was accepted by the Minister for Labour implies a discret- ionary Power being conferred on the board The SPEAKER (Mr. Hearman) took the to increase such maximum should it , in a Chair at 4.30 p.m., and read prayers. particular circumstance, be inadequate. QUESTIONS (15): ON NOTICE Clause 5 also was amended with the ex- press desire of enabling the widow of a ORD RIVER SCHEME worker to receive compensation if he was IrTigable Land -suffering from silicosis and he dies or is 1. Mr. JAMIESON asked the Minister for killed because of reasons outside his em- ployment. Industrial Development: is the anticipated total area The medical and hospital amendment (1) Wihat was moved by the member for Bunbury, of iruigable land associated with and the silicosis move was made by the the completed Ord River project? member for Murchison in another place. (2) What acreage is in- I mention this purely as a matter of inter- (a) Western Australia; est. (b) Northern Territory? Debate adjourned, on motion by The Hon. Mr. COURT replied: W. F. Willesee (Leader of the Opposition). (1) Anticipated total area 170,000 acres. House adionrnzed at 9.44 pmz. (2) (a) 125,000 acres. (b) 45,000 acres. [Tuesday, 8 November. 19651.12 2121

PUBLIC DEBT Mr. ROSS HUTCHINSON replied: Per Capita in Western Australia Arrangements will be made with 2. Mr. TOMS asked the Treasurer: the Chairman of the Swan River What was the public debt per bead Conservation Board to organise of Population in Western Aus- an inspection by boat of the up- tralia at the 30th June for the per reaches of the Swan River. years 1953. 1956, 1959, 1963, and This inspection will probably take 1966? place in March or April, 1967: and, when all necessary arrange- Mr. BRAND replied: ments have been made, members At the- of Parliament will receive an in- 30th June, 1953 .... 489.08. vitation to be present. 30th June. 1955 .... 557.23. 30th June, 1959 .... 545.82. MINERAL SANDS DEPOSITS 30th June, 1963 .... 760.29. 30th June, 1966.. 852.07. Non- development: Action against Leaseholders AIR TRANSPORT 6. Mr. HALL asked the Minister repres- Charter Aircraft: Number Licensed enting the Minister for Mines: and Operating (1) Is he aware that Australia ex- 3. Mr. NORTON asked the Minister for ported nearly 640,000 tons of Transport: rutile, zircon and ilmnenite, worth How many charter aircraft are almost $22,000,000, last year? licensed and operating in West- (2) If "Yes," will he press lease- ern Australia? holders into working mineral Mr. O'CONNOR replied: sands in the Cheyne Beach areas? Forty-eight aircraft are licensed (3) Does the Government intend to solely for operation under charter. take action against leaseholders In addition, licenses for 35 air- not working mineral sands in the craft engaged on regular airline areas? operation authorise their use also (4) Are mineral sands used for vita] for charter work when required. defence purposes when manufac- tured? TRANSPORT ADVISORY BOARD Mr. BOV'FTEL replied: Membership (1) The Commonwealth Statistician's 4. Mr. NORTON asked the Minister for preliminary figures for the year Transport: ended the 30th June. 1966, for Who are the four members of the Australian export of rutile, zircon, Transport Advisory Board con- and ilmenite are 844,000 tons, stituted under the State Trans- worth $29,545,000. Figures are not port Co-ordination Act, 1933, and available for the calendar year- what are their respective occupa- the 1st January to the 31st Decem- tions? ber, 1966. Mr. O'CONNOR replied: (2) Only one group of mineral sands Mr. W. G. McDonald, O.B.E., claims has been granted in this area and they are at Cheyne Bay. farmer, Two groups applied for at Cheyne Mr. J. Finch, pastoralist, Beach (now known as Hasseill Mr. W. Finkelstein, manufacturer, Beach) and one group at Doubtful and Bay Isiand have not yet been Mr. P. Young. chartered account- granted. They, with other appli- ant. cations for mineral sands claims in the south west mineral field, SWAN RIVER are being considered in conjunc- Inspection of Upper Reaches by tion with a general review of the Members of Parliament ilmenite industry. 5. Mr. GRAHAM asked the Minister tor (3) Those claims which have been Works: granted are subject to labour con- ditions, and any holder of a in view of the general interest in miner's right may apply for for- development, use, and cleanliness feiture if he considers the condi- of the Swan River, will he arrange tions are not being complied with. with the Swan River Conserva- tion Board for an inspection trip (4) Yes. The major use is as by boat of the upper reaches of titanium metal, obtained from the the river for those members of processing of ilmenite, in the Parliament who were not included manufacture of aircraf t and in the recent inspection party? spacecraf t. 2122 2122[ASSEMBLY.)I

TEACHERS' TRAINING COLLEGES Mr. LEWIS replied: Additionazl Establishment, and (1) (a) Claremnont-,261. Capacity (b) Graylands--416. (2) Approximately 27 per cent. of 7. Mr. WILLIAMS asked the Minister students are tram the country. for Education: (3) and (4) No conditions have as yet (1) When will the third teachers' been laid down. The committee training college be ready tar use? on tertiary education will give (2) After this date, will Claremont consideration as to how the needs and Graylands both continue to of the whole State can best be met. function as teachers' training POTATOES colleges? (3) If not, what will be their respec- Cartage: Irregularity in Tendering tive functions? 9. Mr. TONKIN asked the Minister for intake of Agriculture: (4) What is the estimated (1) Is he aware that an employee of students for each of the years the Potato Marketing Board ad- 1967 to 1972 inclusive? vised the firm of Hindle of the (5) When the third teachers' training price at which F. Bullock, who was college is operative, what will be the board's contractor, had con- the estimated student capacity of tracted to cart potatoes for the all teachers' training colleges in board? Western Australia? (2) Is he surprised to learn that this (6) Until what year is this estimated manoeuvre which apparently was to meet the requirements of the inspired has resulted in Hindle be- department? coming the successful tenderer in displacement of Bullock, who has Mr. LEWIS replied: been doing the cartage for the (1) It is anticipated that stage 1 of board since 1957? the new building will be ready for (3) Was this plan to get rid of Bullock use at the beginning of 1968. How- the result of his disclosures of a ever, the college will be started number of instances of the dis- in temporary accommodation in posal of potatoes which had the February, 1967. appearance of being most irreg- (2) Yes. ular? (3) Answered by (2). (4) Does he approve of the calling of (4) 1967-770. tenders by the method adopted 1968-935. by the board in which a firm is 1969-860. invited to tender and supplied 1970-970. with the existing contract price? 1971-850. (5) Will he call for a report concern- 1972-9 10. ing the displacement of Bullock as carter for the board and make it (5) 2.050. available for perusal? (6) Until 1970. Mr. NALDER replied: Claremont and Graylands: (1) No. As far as can be asccvtaincd. Enrolments the statement is not correct. 8. Mr. WILLIAMS asked the Minister (2) to (4) Answered by (1). for Education: (5) No. I have been kept advised of the board's decision in this matter (1) What is the total enrolment at and am satisfied no further action the Teachers' Training College- is necessary. (a) Claremont; Mr. Tonkin: You are easily satisfied. (b) Graylands? CONDINGtIP SCHOOL (2) In each ease, how many would be from country areas? Toilet Facilities 10. Mr. MOIR asked the Minister for (3) In order of priority, what would Education: be the pre-conditions necessary for the establishment of a teach- (1) Is he aware that the existing ers' training college within a toilet facilities at Condingup country town or region? school were described by a visit- ing departmental medical prac- Bunbury: Establishment titioner as substandard? (4) If the Town of Bunbury could (2) Is he now in a position to inform conform with most of these, me of the result of the survey of would consideration be given to the facilities and the practicability the establishment of a teachers' of installing a septic system at training college at Bunbury in the the school, which was to be under- near future? taken by the Public Works Dle- [Tuesday, 8 November, 1986.1)12 2123

partment at his request as stated the matter of regional roads, but in his letter to me on the 9th more study is required and no August last? early decision Is likely. When it Mr. LEWIS replied: becomes apparent that changes or additions should be made to the (1) Yes; but subsequent investiga- planned road system as in the tions by the Public Wot~ks case of the proposed by-pass to Department indicate that the Frenmantle, local authorities and toilets are not sub-standard anid district planning committee will that the conditions are not as bad be advised and the proper pro- as described. It is a dry septic cedures followed to corporate system. such changes or additions into the (2) The survey indicates that suitable regional scheme. water for a septic system is likely to be found in the vicinity and test (2) to (4) Answered by (1). boring will be done as soon as a contractor can be found to under- ROADS take the work. Murray Shire District: Costs andI Programme TOWN PLANNING 12. Mr. RUNCIMAN asked the Minister Metro poltan Area: Determination of for Works: Road Systems (1) What has been the total cost to 11. Mr. TOMS asked the Minister repre- date to the Main Roads Depart- senting the Minister for Town Plan- ment of the Dwellingup-Pinjarra fling: Road and the North Dandalup- (1) Has the Town Planning Depart- Mandurah Road? ment made a final determination (2) What other road work in the Mur- re the positioning of all highways ray Shire Council district is the and regional roads in the metro- Main Roads Department engaged politan area, as envisaged in the in during this financial year? Stephenson plan? Mr. ROSS HUTCHINSON replied: (2) If "Yes," what is the final posi- tion of all such roads? (1) Work on the Diveliinguip-Pinjarra (3) Should a final determination on section of the Pinjarra-Marra- dong-Williams Road has cost the all the above not have been made, Main Roads Department $313,455 then- to date, including $155,015 since (a) what highways and regional the 1st July, 1963. roads have been finally deter- The North Dandalup-Mandurab mined and what is the posi- Road (Lakes Road) has cost the tioning of each; Main Roads $78,950 to date, in- (b) which highways anid regional cluding $30,982 since the 1st July, roads are yet to be determined 1963. and positioned to complete the (2) (a) To be carried out by the Main road pattern as proposed in Roads Department- the Stephenson plan, and Road Workc Estimated when wvill this be known? Cost (4) Are any other highways or roads, Main Road- 3 Armadale - Peuw- Shoulder IIIII)ovelOCIis ... ,000 apart from the above, being con- berton sidered in the metropolitan area Iimportaiit Secondary Road- riularra - Mlarra- Reconstruct, and prime 4.2 00,000 and, if so, where? dong-Wtlliams miles x 20 ft. wide (04.25 ]%.-08. 4511.) Mr. LEWIS replied: Snoe coat seal 4.2 miles x 11i,600 (1) A network of highways and "0 ft wide (125 regional roads as cnvisaged in the Devrelopmental Roed- Stephenson-Hepburnl Report was Various...... Contributory bitumen 11,302 gelieme details to be incorporated in the Metropolitan arrang"ed Region Scheme 1903, and no L~akes...... Construction ... 30,000 statutory amendments have since Wilgie Bridge .. Widen bridge...... 7,500 been made to this scheme. Con- Mtc~ahon Bridge Strengthen bridge ...... 900 culting engineers to the Maini (b) To be carried out by local Roadsr Department are investi- authority- gating access to the Kewdale Road Work Estimated marshalling- area, and certain Cost aspects of the planned freeway Important Secondary Road- .Pinjarra . Sltrs- 1laintaoce...... system. This investigation has yet dong-W Illiams to be completed and it is possible Developmenhtal Rtoad- 8000 that some amendments to the Pauli$...... Construction .. Old Itunbitry ... Construelion r8,000 region scheme will be proposed as suittons ...... Construction 5,000 a result of this work. Various.....General Allocation. In.I- 8,000 A technical subcommittee of PrOvemaeats to roads selected by the shire the Metropolitan Region Planning School bus routes Maintenance,...... 2,860 Authority has been considering 2124 2124ASSEMIBLY. I

UNIVERSITY AND UNIVERSITY (2) This matter has been under review COLLEGE several times including following a request by the Chamber of Country Centres: Selected Sites Mines. Following the last request 13. Mr. HALL asked the Minister for by the Chamber of Mines a re- Education: duction was made in freight for fuel oil for goldinining purposes. (1) Can he advise if the advisory com- They have been told that the mittee appointed to investigate question of ammonium nitrate will and take evidence on the estab- be further studied even though lishment of a university or uni- the early decision wvas against re- versity college In country centres duction. has completed its investigations? It should be appreciated that the (2) If "Yes," what are its deter- freight rate for ammoniumn nitrate minations and what towns have containing not more than .05 per been selected as possible sites for cent. organic matter-viz., the the building of a university or prill quality used as an explosive- university college? had previously been reduced from $30.65 to $18.65 per ton Fremantle Mr. LEWIS replied: to Kalgoorlie. (1) and (2) The Committee has not The industry also achieves the yet commenced its investigations major saving of the amamonium into the matter of a second uni- nitrate method as against the so- versity or the alternative of uni- called 'conventional" type explos- versity colleges. ives. It is understood the main supplier RAILWAYS of amumonium nitrate for gold- Freight on Ammoniumn Nitrate fields users is an Australian con- cern in New South Wales, and it 14. Mr. MOR asked the Minister for is railed from the Eastern States Railways: under special arrangements made (1) Will he ascertain the reason why by the supplier for all Western the rail freight charge to Kal- Australian users. goorlie for ammionium nitrate to Therefore the rail freight rates on be used as an explosive compon- W.A.G.R. are largely academic at ent is considerably greater than this stage and until we are able to the freight charge on this sub- supply ammninum nitrate of W.A. stance to be used as fertiliser? manufacture in the correct form. Nevertheless, current studies are (2) As this practice appears to be an continuing as promised to the unwarranted charge on the min- Chamber. ing industry, will he give favour- able consideration to reducing the (3) and (4) The information re- rate to that charged for fertiliser? quested is not normally recorded and would involve considerable (3) What quantity of amnmoniumn work to extract. However, if the nitrate is transported by rail honourable member so desires, yearly to Kalgoorlie, Norseman, this will be done. and mt. Magnet? (4) What is the annual revenue to MIDLAND JUNCTION ABATTOIR the Railways Department for the Increased Charges, and Establishment transport of this substance to of Meat Hall each of the centres named? 15. Mr. HALL asked the Minister for Mr. COURT replied: Agriculture: (1) The question has to be viewed (1) Have approaches been made to having regard for a number of him by the management of the factors. One is the volume of all Midland Abattoir to increase the fertilisers carried by the W.A.G.R. killing charges for beef cattle. for the farming community each sheep, lambs, pigs? year; e.g., during the. year ended (2) If so, what are the new charges the 30th June, 1966, 587,486 tons as compared with the old? of fertiliser were hauled for revenue of $2,857.832; and, for (3) It is the intention of the Midland grain. 2,242,920 tons were railed Abattoir to increase freezing for revenue of $11,527,492. The charges for bides, she epskins, fertiliser rate for ammonium casing entrails, bonings, local nitrate fits into this pattern, even chilled beef, mutton, veal, export though the amount of ammonium cold storage mutton, and veal? nitrate carried as a fertiliser is (4) If so, what are the new charges comparatively small. as compared with the old? [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.1 212522

(5) What charges, if any, need the BILLS (2): ASSENT Minister's approval? Message from the Governor received and (6) Has there been any direct ap- read notifying assent to the following proach to him to establish a meat Bills:- hall at the Midland Abattoir with 1. Public Works Act Amendment Bill. the object of forcing all country- killed meat to go through the 2. Fire Brigades Act Amendment Bill. meat hall and pay a levy? ROAD AND AIR TRANSPORT (7) If the answer to (6) is "Yes," COMMISSION BILL what are his determinations and the effect these would have on Message: Appropriations country abattoirs? Message from the Governor received and read recommending appropriations for the Mr. I4ALDER replied: purposes of the Bill, (1) The Midland Junction Abattoir Board has recently recommended FLUORIDATION OF PUBLIC WATER increased killing charges. SUPPLIES BILL (2) No decision has yet been made. Returned (3) and (4) These charges were in- creased as from the 3rd October. Bill returned from the Council without 1966, as per schedule tabled. amendment. (5) Killing charges and saleyard fees "HANSARD"1 only are subject to ministerial ap- Publication on Tuesdays proval. The SPEAKER: I would like to point (6) No. out that the Mansard staff has been able f7) Answered by (6). to get last week's Hansard out today. I The schedule was tabled. think this is a very good effort on their part. QUESTIONS (2): WITHOUT NOTICE Mr. Graham: Hear, hear! POTATOES The SPEAKER: It may not be possible to Cartage: Irregularity in Tendering continue to get the Hansard published by 1. Mr. TONKIN asked the Minister for Tuesdays but, nevertheless, the staff Will Agriculture: work towards this end. I am sure mem- bers will be forbearing if Mansard is not With reference to question 9 on available quite so promptly during the re- today's notice paper, and the mainder of the session. Minister's answer, does the ister deny that the PremantleMin- storeman of the Potato Marketing BILLS 14): INTRODUCTION AND) FIRST Board visited Mr. Kindle and re- READING quested him to tender, and sup- 1. Public Service Appeal Board Act plied him with the existing con- Amendment Bill. tract price? 2. Public Service Act Amendment Bill. Mr. NALDER replied: Bills introduced, on motions by Mr. I have no knowledge at all of the Brand (Premider), and read a first officer of the Fremantle branch time. of the Potato Marketing Board 3. Industrial Arbitration Act Amend- taking any such action. mernt Bill (No. 2). Bill introduced, on motion by Mr. Mr. Graham; You should check. O'Neil (Minister for Labour), and OLD POLICE STATION AT ALBANY read a first time. Present Use of Holding Gaol 4. Public Service Arbitration Bill. Bill introduced, on motion by Mr. 2. Mr. HALL asked the Minister for Brand (Premier), and read a first Police: time. Can he advise the House if the holding gaol at the old police WORKERS' COMPENSATION ACT station at Albany is now being AMENDMENT BILL used for the purpose of retaining prisoners over weekends? RePOrt Report of Committee adopted. Mr. CRAIG replied:* I could not say, but I should Third Reading imagine that the honourable mem- MR. O'NEIL (East Melville-Minister ber is referring to the lockup sec- for Labour) [4.54 p.mn.]: I move- tion. These People would still be That the Hill be now read a third retained there because the Albany time. Gaol is used for another purpose. MR. EVANS (Kalgoorlie) [4.55 p.mn.]; I They cannot be transferred to the do not wish to delay the House, but un- gaol until they are committed. fortunately I was not present when the 2126 2128[ASSEMBLY.]

Bill passed through the orthodox stage for enlightenment from the Minister, now or debating it. Due to the good efforts of you. at some later stage, as to why the prac- yourself, Mr. Speaker, the Printing Com- tice is allowed to exist whereby, on ad- mittee, and the hard working members of mission to a hospital, a different bed rate the Hlansard staff, who have provided me is struck with regard to the hospital ex- with a record of last Thursday's proceed- penses of an injured worker. ings, I have, in the last few minutes. be- A different bed rate is also struck for come acquainted with the fact that the motor vehicle insurance trust case acci- Minister, when replying to the second dents. These two rates are completely reading debate on this Bill, gave a certain different from one another, and both are assurance to the member for Boulder- different, I understand, from the normal Eyre with regard to a provision which, un- bed rate charged to any other type of fortunately, does not find a place in the patient. In the case of both workers' com- Bill at all. pensation and motor vehicle insurance Before dealing with that particular as- trust accidents, the bed rate is higher than pect. I would like to say that this Hill does the normal rate. impress me as having a great deal of merit. Mr. Davies: Didn't it go up 50 per cent.? The major feature of the measure is, of course, the upgrading of the compensable Mr. EVANS: That principle is not in amount for total and permanent incapa- the best interest of the injured worker city from the sum of $7,000 to $10,000. where a statutory amount exists which gives him some form of free hospitalisa- This is a steep increase, but by no means tion until it is exhausted. I wonder if the is it a revolutionary one. At least it does Minister would care to comment on that remove the stigma which applied to the point: or, perhaps, at some other stage he Western Australian Act; namely, that might be able to inform me in regard to it. prior to the passing of this measure it was I fee] it is an injustice that this special regarded as being the worst in Australia. rate should be allowed to apply in the case I am very glad to see that section 11 is of an injured worker. to be repealed. This has particular signifl- cance to the remarks I intend to make as I do not wish to dwell at any great to the absence of any provision to deal length on this measure or on its general with, and more particularly to repeal, sub- principles except to say that in clause 5 section (13) of section 8. (d) (iii) on Page 5 a new paragraph (b) However, continuing on with the salient is added which, I feel, has a great deal of features of the Bill, I am very glad to see significance. I consider that this is a great that the recent Murray case which was break through in workers' compensation decided before the Workers' Compensation legislation having regard to all that has Board has found reference in the amend- gone before. For this reason, I feel that ments to the first schedule, and also that the Provision is worthy of mention, or even it has been the means of incorporating the repitition, as the case may be. for the pur- decisions of the board into the Act. Pose of Hansard. The paragraph reads- (5) Where a worker wvho has so far I understand the member for Murchison recovered from his injury was astute enough to find that the pur- as to be on fit for employment of a certain kind pose of his amendment which appeared satisfies the Board that he has taken the notice paper was actually missing from all reasonable steps to obtain, and has the Bill. I believe he was successful in failed to obtain, that employment and moving an appropriate amendment to give that the failure is a consequence. full intention to the purpose of the Bill wholly or mainly, of the injury, the with regard to the point raised in the Board may, without limiting its Murray case. powers of review, order that the I commend the grouping together of the worker's incapacity be treated, or hospital and medical expenses. I ami par- continue to be treated, as total in- ticularly pleased to learn that at the capacity, for such Period, and subject board's discretion, an award can be given to such conditions, as the order may which would exceed the aggregate amount provide. as set out in the Bill. The board can do What I have mentioned are the mat,± this if the circumstances of the case war- features of the Bill itself. rant it. Whilst it is an admirable move to E'roup I would no0w briefly lament the fact that these two items together, I feel that the no amendment in the Bill sought to re- aggregate sum is not particularly generous, Peal subsection (13) of section 8, having because it does not represent any great regard to the fact that section 11 is to be increase. However, I do consider that the repealed by the Hill, Section 11 deals with grouping together of the two amounts has the worker who has been permanently, but a great deal of merit, because often in the only partially, incapacitated; and its effect past an injured worker would find that the on such a worker has been to make only amount provided for hospitalisation would a proportionate payment of compensation be exhausted in a very short time, but, to him. In the past thIs section has always possibly, the amount allowed for medical been looked upon as a gravamlen of discon- expenses would not necessarily be exhaust- tent, in the same way as has subsection ed at all. While on this point I seek some (13) of section 8. [Tuesday, 8 November, 1986.1 222127

If section 11 is to be repealed, the net payments provided by subsection (13) of effect of the legislation as a whole will be section 8 until it is repealed. With those that a sufferer of pneumnoeoniosis will be few remarks, I support the third reading singled out from all other types of In- of the Bill. jured worker for special discrimination, because under subsection (13) of section 8 MR. OINEIL (East Melville-Minister for that worker will receive only a proportion- Labour) [5.7 p.m.]: Unfortunately, I am ate amount of compensation. The not able to provide an answer to the ques- Minister stated he was in a dilemma with tion asked in regard to the hospital bed subsection (13) of section 8; but he need rate for an injured worker. I did, in my not feel any shame in this regard, because second reading summation, cover the situ- there have been many instances of legal ation with respect to subsection (13) of authorities expressing different views on section 8, and I can only repeat that the the effect of this subsection. I believe whole situation will be kept under review. the legislation was introduced in 1927. and Question put and passed. it is possible that the intention of the Legislature then was that this subsection Bill read a third time and transmitted should be beneficial to the injured worker to the Council. I have cited. However, experience has shown that the subsection operates to the STATE TRANSPORT CO-ORDLNA flON detriment of an injured worker suffering BILL from pneumoconlosis and some other, non- Second Reading compensable, disease. Debate resumed from the 2nd November. The answer to any doubt in the Min- MR. GRAHAM (Balcatta) [5.8 p.mn.): ister's mind as to whether the repeal of Notwithstanding my very best efforts I section 11 would have an effect that would am afraid I have been unable to gener- remove or lessen the detrimental effect of ate any great enthusiasm for this measure. subsection (13) of section 8 is to be found It is true it has an imposing title and that in the case decided by the Full, Court of the Minister uttered a whole host of plati- Western Australia last year. That was a tudes when introducing the Bill. If one case taken by the Workers' Compensation studies existing legislation, however, it Board for a worker by the name of Grose. will be found that scarcely any new In that case the widow of the deceased ground is encompassed by this measure. worker received redemption of the weekly I will deal with that aspect shortly be- payments the injured worker would cause firstly I want to address some ques- normally have received if he had lived, and tions to the Minister which, perhaps, he the three judges applied subsection (13) of will answer when replying to the debate. section 8. which had the eff ect of reducing A Royal Commission was appointed to the award to the widow. Only one of the investigate the question of transport, and judges referred to section 11. The other after a considerable period-unfortul- two did not mention that section, and nately, some delay was occasioned on ac- the one who did refer to it did not apply it. count of the ill-health of the Royal Com- As a result, the eff ect was that the re- missioner-a report was submitted. It duction of the award was made purely and appears the Government has felt obliged to simply by the application of subsection act on that (13) of section 8. report. Before submitting some questions to the Subsection (13) of section 8 provides Minister, I point out that with the passage that a worker becomes entitled to com- of this measure, the director-general of pensation when it is found he is unable transport, appointed with all his trap- to earn full wages by reason of his suffer- pings under the provisions of the Bill, ing from pneumoconiosis; and the answer wilbe able to interfere very considerably to the question: When is a worker injured? with the activities of transport organisa- is to be found in the case of Brown against tions. These organisations, in many in- the Coalmines Control Authority, Workers' stances,' are rendering a pretty fair ser- Compensation Reports of New South vice to the State, having regard to all the Wales, 1958, Page 39. cizcumstances. I do not think there is I do not wish to delay the House any need for me to go into all of those cir- further, but I would welcome an assurance cumstances, except to say that public from the Minister that this position will be transport is an exceedingly vexed ques- elosely watched. I also want to express tion not only in Western Australia and my humble opinion that the repeal of other parts of the commonwealth, but, section 11 will not in any way remove the generally speaking, throughout the world. hardship that will be placed on a worker I have regard for the fact that the who is found to be suffering from Royal Commissioner who inquired Into pacumoconiosis and so prevented from transport was none other than the Com- earning full wages, and who has also been missioner of Railways. I am aware that found to be suffering from some other, non- the representatives of transport organisa- compensable, disease, Such a worker will tions were interviewed and examined, and continue to suffer hardship and be the information was obtained from them to victim of the proportionate compensation enable the Royal Commissioner to comn- 2128 2128[ASSEMBLY.]

pile and deliver his report; but, that being tion ascertained? I ask these questions be- done, the responsibility is then in the cause, vested in this individual authority, hands of the Government to consider the there are fairly considerable powers that report and to do something about it, or to could have dire effects-most far-reach- abstain from doing anything. ing effects-_upon every form of transport I now come to the point of asking the that operates within the State. Minister: How many, and which, of the I venture to suggest that the Govern- various transport organisations were con- ment has proceeded with this measure sulted in respect of the Government's without knowing the reaction of these proposals? I suppose, in view or the fact people. Therefore Parliament is not in- that the Royal Commi~ssioner was the formed as it should be; because, as I have Commissioner of Railways, the Minister already said, it is now impossible for a could easily say that the Railways Depart- private member to go to these concerns-- ment was consulted. I have an idea that other than those, perhaps, which are the Metropolitan (Perth) Passenger Trans- privately operated. port Trust was not. Here let me pause I have outlined all of those who operate and say immediately that I do not neces- vehicles and who, with the exception of sarily concede that the various transport one, conduct some public transport sys- organisations should have the last say or tem: but, of course, in addition there is that their viewpoints should be regarded the Department of Transport. I wonder as being the last word on the matter; but, whether it was consulted in this matter. having regard to the fact that they have Without any disrespect to Mr. Wayne, I been charged by Parliament for assumn- would say he has been associated with the ing tremendous responsibilities, I con- management and control of the railway sider their viewpoints are particularly system here, and elsewhere; but our De- apposite not only to a discussion on the partment of Transport has been in exis- measure, but to a considered and experi- tence for more than 30 years. It has re- enced analysis of the proposals. cords, it has experience, it has been operat- Naturally, after legislation has been ing under a charter given to it by this introduced, it is not possible for private Parliament. members to approach these organisations Indeed, if one reads the present State to ascertain their attitude, and it would Transport Co-ordination Act, one will be not be appropriate for highly-placed offi- impressed by the fact that, I suppose. 99 cers to express an opinion on the Govern- per cent. of what is sought to be done by ment's intentions. However, I express the Bill we are considering Is already con- very definitely my view that there was tained in that Statute. Therefore there an obligation on the Government to ob- is practically no purpose to be achieved tain expert views from those who are by introducing an entirely new piece of trained and qualified in certain aspects legislation with an entirely new set-up, of transport. and giving a very subordinate role to the I guess that the transport board on the most experienced transport authority that goldfields was dealt with in exactly the exists in the State. same way as the Metropolitan (Perth) Pas- Because of this--and nobody can gain- senger Transport Trust. Was the Western say the fact-I feel the present Bill is a Australian Coastal Shipping Commission matter of platitude and aspiration, with consulted as to whether there should be very little more legislative power than at established an overall body which could present; but there is a pious hope on the have access to all kinds of information, part of the Minister and of the Govern- and, indeed, issue directions, vitally affect- ment that there will be all sorts of worth- ing the interests of that concern? Was any while achievements in the matter of trans- effort made to ascertain the viewpoint of port co-ordination. the Taxi Control Board, or the views of the several hundred people who operate if there has not been the degree of co- under Its aegis? On this proposal, what ordination and forward planning in the are the views of the airline company that past that there should have been, I sug- conducts services within the confines of gest it is due to the present M'nister. Western Australia? and the past Ministers for Transport-and in that respect, of course, I inclucic my- The Road Transport Association (W-A.), together with other similar organisations, Self. It has not been the fault of the could be vitally-indeed, detrimentally- legislation and, I venture to suggcst, it affected by any decisions made following has not been the fault of the officers who these proposals. Was its views sought? have been operating under the Stale Were those operators who conduct tour- Transport Co-ordination Act. ist bus services by catering particularly for It is true that under the new legisla- tourists, either in the broad sense or in tion specific mention Is made of sea trans- any particular way, approached to express port along the coast of Western Australia. their views? If we can accept that the But, in respect of this, I hazard a guess Royal Automobile Club of W.A. (The.) is that there is not likely to be a great deal the official mouthpiece for private motor- of interference with our shipping services. ists, was the attitude of that organisa- Therefore, by and large, the operations of [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.1 2129

this new authority will be along the lines fidence by appointing them to the topmost of what already occurs. I would Point out positions. Yet somebody from outside is in respect of the State Shipping Service to have the authority directly to interfere. that the State Transport Board, in making- Under the State Transport Co-ordina- its determinations, has had regard to the tion Act, as it is now in existence, it is shipping services existing in this State. true that the authority has some general What new ground, therefore, is being power; but it certainly has nothing which broken? It will mean that while there allows it to interfere to the extent proposed is a whole host of organisations and in- in the measure before us. terests responsible for conducting trans- in case members are of the opinion that port services, we will now have two, in- I was drawing the long bow by suggesting stead of one, non-producers: two organisa- that there is very little new in the general tions instead of one playing with pieces concept of this authority measured against of paper, while all the others, of course. the Department of Transport-or the will also be conducting the services and Transport Board as we have got to know watching the way in which certain ser- it over many years-I would like to read vices run, and making determinations from a section of the existing Act. I am which they consider should be made. sure many members would be amazed at What justification is there for scrapping the similarity of the powers and duties of an organisation already in existence to the Transport Board already in existence; set up another--one which will not have because they run almost parallel with the a penny of income in its own right; a new new proposal contained In the Bill. transport board which will be dependent Naturally enough, it is not my intention for every penny of its expenditure on the to quote from the machinery clauses. I Treasury-on the same Treasury in re- know that many of the machinery clauses spect of which the Premier and Treasurer are identical with the provisions that at has told us the cupboard is bare? We present apply, or have exactly the same know that all sorts of excess taxes and idea expressed in a slightly different way. impositions are being imposed upon our In other words, the 1966 ideas of Parlia- people and that the basic wage adjust- mentary drafting are different, perhaps, ments are being thrown into the discard, from the 1933 ideas. I quote from section yet this giant colossus is to be set up. 10 of the existing Statute, and 1 would like A person with the imposing title of members to listen to this- director-general of transport will be, of course, monarch of all he surveys. Largely, (1) Subject to this Act, the Commis- he has a blank cheque. I suppose the first sioner may of his own volition or thing for him to do is to set about empire under the direction of the Minister building-developing around him a staff shall- which can undertake all the research that (a) make investigation and Inquire is necessary. into transport matters and in making those investigations I repeat, there are already in existence organisations, many of them covered by and inquiries the Commissioner Statute, which have the necessary facilities shall give consideration to all available. Why then should this new body or any of the following fac- be established? I venture to suggest that so tors-- far as the Governmental instrumentalities (i) the question of transport are concerned-the railways, the Metro- generally in the light of politan (Perth) Passenger Transport Trust, service to the community: or the coastal shipping service-the re- (ii) the needs of the State for sponsible top executives will be anything economic development; but pleased that somebody from outside (III) the industrial conditions is to have the right to interfere, or that under which all forms of some others are to be able to make decis- transport are conducted; ions which will affect the work of those (iv) the impartial and equitable who are specialists-those who have spent the whole of their working lives attached treatment of all conflicting to a certain form of transport. interests; (b) demand and obtain information There is, unfortunately, no limiting fac- relating to matters connected tor in the legislation-nothing to stop this with the internal proposed new body from interfering in transport of matters either small or large. It may not the State, including transport be the intention of the Minister that the controlled by the Crown or any director-general and his new bureaucratic agency of the Crown. establishment should do these things, but Then it goes on to deal with the matter there is nothing In the legislation to put of road transport, railway services, etc.. a rein on their activities. and continues- To some extent, therefore, I think this (3) The Provisions of the Royal Com- legislation can be regarded as a gratuitous missioners' Powers Act, 1902, with insult to those in whom this Parliament, the necessary modifications, apply and its Predecessors, expressed every con- to any investigation and inquiry 2130 2130[ASSEMBLY.]

made by the Commissioner pursuant representative of the railways, a repre- to subsection (1) of this section. sentative of the Main Roads, a repre- So it will be seen that whilst it has been sentative of the transport commission- highlighted in the Minister's speech, and that is the heir and successor to the late somewhat naturally in the Press, that Transport Board cumn the Department of there will be set up an organisation to Transport-a representative of the carry out all this research and to make all Coastal Shipping Commission, better these inquiries, so sincere is the Govern- known as the State Shipping Service, a ment that this authority shall have the representative of the Metropolitan Trans- powers of a Royal Commissioner, where port Trust, a representative of the Road appropriate, that these provisions are Transport Association, and, finally, an air already in the Act, and have been there for transport operator. I suppose one should 33 years. put in brackets "Reg Ansett", as he is the Mr. Fletcher: Liberal Party's favourite and the only one It is window-dressing. operating in this State. Mr. GRAHAM: That is so. I think I said earlier-if I did not, I intended to do Mr. O'Connor: I can assure You he will so-that this is a facade to endeavour to not be on the authority. give the impression that something Mr. GRAHAM: He or his nominee will worth while is being done; whereas, in be, because his i~sthe only commercial air- point of fact, the Hill merely sets up an- line service operating in this State. So the other Government instrumentality, but ghost of Reg Ansett will be there anyhow. without the wealth of experience of the The Government has seen no need to give Qualified officers of the present Depart- representation to the other forms of ment of Transport. The new authority Public transport which I mentioned-the will commence de novo, unless it does a taxis, the tourist buses, or the com- little bit of snowdropping-if that be the mercial pleasure boats. I think these are proper term-and pinches the officers of omissions; and, if the Government wants the Transport Board, rendering that de- an advisory council in the wider sense, partment less efficient as a consequence. these People should be represented. My paint is that there is no need what- Mr. Norton: Chartered aircraft should ever to remove these overall powers from be included. an authority which has similar qualifica- Mr. GRAHAM: They could be included, tions. Let the Minister add other depart- too-they would be similar to taxis-if ments and other personnel to the existing the Government feels the various operators department; let him build upon the exist- and those associated with them should be ing department, but not destroy it, as will invited to the Party. I would point out be the inevitable result with the passage to the Minister in my friendly fashion, of this legislation. that when the subject was first placed At first glance, in studying the legisla- with the then member for East Perth, as tion, it would appear that the director- Minister for Transport, one of his initial general of transport is to have all the duties-and it had some violent reactions powers in the world, but on reading a little in certain quarters-was to disband com- further in the Bill we find there is to be mittees of one sort or another. a committee of eight persons. I wonder if anybody could guess the name of the I well remember a traffic advisory com- director-general of transport. I have, but I mittee. On that committee just about do not intend to mention it. every interest imaginable and unimagin- able was represented. Mr. Brand: It was apparently Why not? the procedure that before anything could Mr. GRAHAM: On an earlier occasion I be done, it had to run the gamut of this indicated the members of the industrial very much over-represented body. So it commission and I was right in two out of went out of existence. There was a com- three. mittee set up) to go into the matter of Mr. Brand: Have a go this time. traffic in relation to drive-in theatres. Mr. GRAHAM: As a matter of fact, I There was a traffic lights committee, and think I was right in three out of four. so on. Mr. Brand: Let us get back to this If fthere is any merit in setting up boards, fellow. trusts, commissions, and committees, paid Mr. GRAHAM: As it is a single person or non-paid. I think this Government is involved I will not mention his name. I at the top of the tree. Once upon a time would not mind telling the Premier in it was fair game for newspapers and private, but not in the House. political parties, at election time, to point Mr. floss Hutchinson: It could be that the finger of scorn at a Government be- Herbert Graham is the fellow. cause of the boards for which it had been responsible in the previous Mr. GRAHAM: If the Government is three years. pursuing the matter, I think it could do Mr. Davies: This Government would far worse than make that appointment, win hands down. but here and now I tell it I am not an Mr. GRAHAM: Apparently it is now the applicant. order of the day. The more boards, com- The members of this advisory council of mittees, and so on that are established, eight are the director-general himself, a the more successfully is the Government [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.] 213113 functioning! That seems to be the thought creation of an entirely new regulatory in many cases. I feel Ministers are not board; that is, the director-general and devoting sufficient time to their paramount all that goes with him. There will be duties. Far too much time is spent in a transport advisory committee. To be gadding about, public relations stuff, and perfectly frank, I am unable to satisfy leaving the work to be done by all sorts of myself to what extent it is advisory and People instead of the Ministers making the to what extent it has some executive func- decisions and adducing for themselves the tions; in other words, when it makes a evidence necessary in order to make those decision, how far that decision goes.- If decisions. I remember aright, the decisions are given I would have thought that if there were to the director-general, Of course, he is some co-ordination necessary, the Minister. part of it and he can please himself as if he had any views as to what ought to to whether the decisions go to the Minis- be done, would call in separately officers. ter. But if he is aware of them, no doubt where there are Government instru- the Minister could ask and receive. mentalities. to ascertain their views, gather On top of this, there is another commit- their advice, and be informed accordingly; tee to be set tip-the transport users' and would then follow that up by making board. If ever there was a misnomer, this approaches to the appropriate bodies and is it, because nowhere in the Bill does it organisations outside, after which he would set out that one of the qualifications for make his decision. I do not want to be appointment shall be that the person is personal in this, but I suggest that if a user of public transport. That he shall Ministers devoted more time to these sorts have knowledge of accountancy, economics of things when making ministerial perchance, and business methods, "Yes"; decisions, there would be less necessity for that lie shall have some knowledge of the boards and ever-growing- Government economics of rural transport. "Yes"; but departments; and, under this measure- nowhere, I repeat, is there a suggestion quite unnecessarily in my view-an entirely that any one of these four to be appointed new set-up is being established that will wvith the director-general to comprise the impose a burden of money-I should say transport users' board shall be a user of hundreds of thousands of dollars annually transport, in addition to that, there is -to embark upon the same work, or a an omission which I hope to put right by variation of it, as is being done by the De- way of amendment. There is no require- partmnent of Transport at the present ment that a per~on appointed to this moment. transport users' board shall be one who has no financial interest in a transport I have already said there is likely to be concern, which is somethaing that appears friction, frustration, and iritation unle~s in the State Transport Co-ordination Act the greatest of skills are adopted, because at the present moment. the director-general and his staff Could So. I repeat, it is possible for the four become veritable busy-bodies nosing into members of the board to be St. George's affairs being conducted by persons who are Terrace men who never use a public bus, competent and experienced. If the Gov- who never use any trucks operated by those ernment has no faith in them, it ought to who are members of the transport associ- take appropriate action: but I think, ation, who never use an aeroplane-that is generally speaking, we are at least being an intrastate aeroplane-but who proceed reasonably well served, if not well served, in their own cars and travel to all parts by those responsible for the public trans- of Australia and the world in aeroplanes port units that are operating in this State. which are not subject to the authority of We are told the director-general and this Bill when it becomes law; they are the his empire are to go into the matter of types of people who could be appointed. capital works, loan funds, and the in- I suggest, therefore, if the Minister and vestment of public moneys. How would the Government have in mind that there anybody, as director-general, have an shall be certain people with specific quali- appreciation of what is required for rail- fications drawn from particular areas. 6vays, for the shipping service, or for the then this should be so stipulated in the 'VLT.T.? Surely it would be the responsi- legislation and not left tz chance, and bility of the Treasury and its research not left to an over-enthiusiastic Minister 3fficers to vet the approaches which are who may have a friend who is a member .made for loan moneys and other funds in of the Weld Club and whom he might be ;he same way as is done in respect of all likely to approach to make a member of 3overnment departments and Government this board; because whoever he might be, .nstrumentalities at the present moment. he would be qualified to sit on such a board Is it that the Premier has lost some in the terms of the legislation as it is at confidence in the present Under-Treas- present before us. uirer; or are those elements being placed I go back to one of the earlier points: Ln the Bill for the purpose of giving it an that whilst it is possibly the intention of mrportanico which it does not warrant? the Government that the director-general 3o we. have the preservation of the exist- of transport and those associated with him trg Department of Transport, wi~th its are to survey the situation broadly and wings clipped to some extent, and the deal with broad policy, there is nothing in 2132 2132[ASSEMBLY.] the legislation to stop the director-general in the legislation. I repeat, If the Minister and his minions-indeed, there is a whole and the Government were anxious to pro- host of clauses to encourage them-from ceed, there is nothing to prevent them fiddling In the most minor matters. If doing so with their present established this is done, of course, it could have a most Organisation with the trained and ex- upsetting effect on those operating services perienced men who are available to them. -and I am referring, of course, particu- There is no need to superimpose this larly to the instrumentalities which other Organisation. Indeed, the old trans- operate services for the Crown. port board cum Department of Trans- What thought has the Government port, now to become the road and air trans- given, in this matter of the transport port commission, will be bereft of many of users' board, to making its composition its powers and a great deal of its auth- fitting to Its title? Surely the first quali- ority. Because of that, I feel it will not fication of its members should be that they be able to operate as successfully In the are persons who use or patronise the pub- future as it has done in the past because lie transport services, whether operated by part of its activities and research will be the Crown or by private enterprise. That is carried out by another body. I shall have to say, those who pay the fares and those more-but very little more-to say with who pay the freights. Surely persons of regard to that when we deal with the Bill that ilk are truly users; and, if the Gov- in Committee. ernment feels they are worthy of repre- Having addressed myself to this, the sentation, they are the people who will be major Bill, I feel, very largely, that the appointed. The Bill should specifically establishment of the road and air trans- say so; and, in this respect, I should port commission follows somewhat as a imagine that perhaps the Farmers' Union corollary to it, although, as I have already would be entitled to representation, and indicated, there are some difficulties. There that perhaps the Trades and Labour Coun- are also some amendments I would like cil, as an appropriate body-representative made to that Bill. as it is of some tens of thousands of ord- I hope that some of the forebodings of inary working people, many of whom use which I have spoken will not come to Pass, forms of public transport-would be en- but I suggest it will require all the tact titled to representation. Nobody would be that the director-general can employ to better equipped than that Organisation to avoid upsetting persons who axe proud- supply a person who could speak from the and who are justifiably proud-of the point of view of people who use public organisations which they operate in the transport. interests of the State. I hope, too, that Members can exercise their minds and the stage will never be reached where par- ingenuity and suggest other persons who ticular forms of transport are able to would be users of public transport services, superimpose their will-because it is in and who would therefore be in a position their Interest-so that the welfare of the to make worth-while contributions. In- State will run second. There is, of course, deed, I say the transport advisory council some possibility of that occurring, and of eight persons with representatives that is why Governments, irrespective of drawn from the operators, generally speak- political complexion, have usually insisted ing-but with some omissions-would be a that the Minister for Railways, for in- far better committee if there was some stance, and the Minister for Transport, representation from those who patronise should be two separate Ministers. The the public transport services. Minister for Railways is charged with the In that respect, I am afraid the Bill responsibility of administering and con- moves in the wrong direction. The ducting his service, and he feels Proud of director-general, the advisory committee. it and wants to do the best he can for It. and the users' board, are to be divorced Then there is another Minister entirely from the people for whom the transport whose job it is to see fair play between all services are designed. To that extent, this forms of transport. lu-conceived legislation is not fair. Too There could be a possibility that an over- often has it been said that the public enthusiastic Railways Minister could im- suffers because the viewpoint of estab- pose his will on this authority if he were lished authority is the only one which is both Minister for Railways and Minister heard. for Transport. There could be somebody The poor mug public, applying a disres- who is extra keen about the M.T.T. and, pectful term, simply has not a chance. It because of that, he would impose all sorts does not matter what the public wants, it of unreal and extraordinary restrictions on is unable to break through. Each year we the taxi industry. Those are possibilities, have in excelsis the establishment of that and I do see a certain merit in Providing sort of thing. for there to be some subdivisl'n. Of So I return to the paint on which I com- course, that does not necessarily Y"-an menced, and that is I am by no means there is to be lack of co-ordination. enthusiastic with regard to this Bill. The There is a Minister for Agriculture, and Minister has indicated that the new body a Minister for Forests, and T say that In is to get on with the job, and I think that all Governments there has been a measure utterance of his is perhaps the only virtue of understanding and compromise, and (Tesday, 8 November. 1966.) 213313 those Ministers have been able to work out an opportunity to discuss some of the as- satisfactory solutions to problems. If I pects of the Wayne report. I will only may digress for a moment, it could be that touch on the report as far as it is rele- if the Minister for Agriculture were, at vant to the Bill. Actually, the report the same time, Minister for Forests, and would be relevant all through, and It car- he had a bias towards agricultural develop- ries quite a bit of information. I am sorry ment, he could bring sufficient pressures to to say the report makes no mention what- bear upon the Conservator of Forests, or soever of the problems associated with the could amend the Forests Act, for the pur- Gascoyne and the Murchison areas. pose of sacrificing a great deal of our timber wealth in order to satisfy the wants if one looks at page 46 of the report, one and the pressures of the farming commun- will find: "Road transport should develop Ity. So all the arguments are not one-way in the north-west." That Is right, but I traffic In the matter of any particular think that sentence has not been written activity being wholly encompassed by one correctly. It should read, "Road trans- Minister. At the same time, that does not port will develop the north-west," because necessarily mean that there Is discord and there Is no other method of developing it that there Is no general plan. unless it is by rail, and that is totally We know that 10 Ministers can get to- uneconomical. gether on a wide variety of subjects, and, The north-west, Murchison, and other generally speaking, the Government has a remote areas, are completely different in complete understanding within the that those areas have had to be developed Ministry in regard to its economic plan, prior to any form of transport being pro- developmental plan, taxation proposals, vided for them, whereas in the South- and so on. From time to time, of course, West Land Division, and even in Esper- decisions have to be made, but if 10 people ance, transport systems were provided be- are able to agree, and are able to work out fore the areas were developed. As a mat- a satisfactory solution, then I am unable ter of fact, in the remote areas develop- to believe there Is any particular difficulty ment had to take place before roads were in two Ministers handling the various as- built to those parts, and cognisance should pects of transport to give an overall and be taken of this fact in planning trans- co-ordinated transport system. port for the future. The economics of transport in the I mention this without necessarily ad- north-west, and other remote areas, are, vocating It. I am merely submitting It in many respects, totally different from with the view that it is a matter for some those with which one is confronted in thought. I say no more than that, We the south-west area of the State. Accord- CalL have somec thrust and parry when we Iug to Mr. Wayrne's report, road transport reach the Committee stage. for the remote areas, particularly for the if the Bill is indicative of the fact that Murchison and the Gascoyne, should the Government really intends to do things operate from railheads-that is, from to put our transport, in its many aspects, Geraldton, Mullewa, Cue, Mt. Magnet, on as satisfactory a working basis as is Meekatharra, and so on. One can under- possible, then I suppose the Government is stand this proposal, because the Commis- entitled to enshroud itself with bunting, sioner of Railways Is the person who and there should be a fanfare of trumpets, made the investigation and presented the and all the rest of it. This is new legisla- report and, naturally, he suggests the use tion and it will create new positions, and of railways on every possible occasion; that is something for which I can see no and he recommends that goods should be real justification, because the existing legis- transported by rail to these railheads and lation provides for practically everything from them they should be carted by road. which is provided for in this measure. It Is not my intention to vote against the However, I think there will need to be Bill1; and it is certainly not my intention to a great deal of alteration to the thinking divide the House on it. of the Railways Department in regard to freights and methods of transport. if MR. NORTON (Gascoyne) [5.58 p.m.]: one asks for a freight rate the railways This Bill is of particular interest to me, will definitely give it, but the officers of as I represent a remote area. Over the that department do not tell one what past few years there have been a number other ancillary charges are involved. For of committees investigating the various instance, they do not say that one will be aspects of transport, the last being the charged extra for tarpaulins, or for any Wayne inquiry. It is the report of the ropes that may be required. They do not Wayne Inquiry on which this Bill is based. mention a charge for the use of a crane, or Prior to this report, committee reports did a forklift if heavy loads are Involved and not see the light of day; and I think that this equipment has to be used at the is a pity, because a lot of knowledge and terminal. a lot of evidence was given by people on But a freight rate Includes all these the spot. charges, even though no mention Is made As far as I am aware, no evidence for the of them when one asks for a rate. As a Wayne report was taken in the electorate result, when these incidental charges are which I represent. This Bill gives us added onto the rate given they increase 2134 2134[ASSEMBL.]

It substantially. Another paint is that the convenience. This is also the position with railways are slow and, as far as the north- the registered carriers, however, and as west is concerned, or Carnarvon, anyway, a result many pastoralists are at the mercy they can be likened to the State ships. of the railways. I have taken this matter If one is transporting goods by ship or up with the department and with the by rail, the goods must first be transported Minister. In many instances the railways from the manufacturing or distributing have only provided eight-ton vans for the point to the loading point and from there loading of wool and, therefore, the person transferred to the ship or train. The concerned caninot get the concession which goods then have to be transported to the is allegedly offered as the van will not point of destination, unloaded, and then hold eight tons of wool. reloaded on to road transport so that they Therefore, if the railways want to re- can be delivered to the consumer. On the tain patronage, the officers of the depart- other band, with road transport the goods ment will have to look at all these aspects. are loaded at the distribution point and I agree that no form of transport should are unloaded at the consumer's door. That be permitted to develop unless it is pro- does away with a great deal of expenditure, perly regulated, This sort of thing hap- and obviates damage or loss in transit, and pened at Carnarvon. Years ago we had this means a great deal when goods are a catch-as-catch-can cartage system from being carted aver long distances. Carnarvon to Geraldton, and one never Another point which must be taken into knew whether one's carrier would be able consideration is the time factor. With the to get sufficient produce to leave Carniarvon railways it takes at least 24 hours to get on a certain day or whether one had to goods loaded on to rail trucks and moved contact someone else to do the job. How- away from Perth. I am not trying to bo ever, since the cartage from Carnarvon critical about this, but when goods are has been organised we have had no mare picked up at the distribution point and trouble, and it has developed into what taken to the railways and reloaded on to is probably the be-st transport system in railway wagons, it must take at least 24 the Commonwealth of Australia. hours: whereas with a road vehicle, the In the report, Mr. Wayne suggests that same type of goods can be loaded and, in special consideration should be given to many cases, can reach their destination traffic regulations and an investigation within 24 hours. In other words, by the made into axle loadings. As the Minister time the goods reached their destination knows, I had quite a deal to say on this they would not have even started to leave subject previously, and this Is one matter Perth by rail. The railways will have to which should be investigated thoroughly think of some better and quicker method and promptly because it could be the means if they want to compete with road trans- of considerably easing our transport prob- port on long hauls. lems. We all know that over the past When we compare rail transport and 12 mionths the operators of cattle trains road transport freights, we find there is have been forced to reduce the width of very little difference. A railway concession their vehicles from 8 ft. 6 in. to 8 ft. is granted to people living north of the However, as soon as that was done, the 26th parallel, and this is a rebate of, I Government found it convenient, for the think, El a ton. However, there are all sake of departments under its control, to kinds of strings attached to this conces- alter the regulation to provide for a width sion. First of all, a person must be a of 8 ft. 21Jrl registered carrier to be eligible for it. This was done so that the M.T.T. could S9econdly. he must consign the goods from operate wider vehicles in the dense city himself in Perth or Fremantle to himself traffic. If it is dangerous in the country to in Geraldton, Mullewa, Meekatharra, or operate a vehicle with an axle width over wherever it may be; which, to me, is ridi- Sft., surely it is doubly dangerous to culous. operate vehicles of the same width In the In addition to that, a person must have city! The Minister cannot deny that that loads of not less than eight tons. This is is what has happened over the last six all right for the big carriers; but the months. smaller or general carriers, or even the In regard to axle loading I believe the pastoralists, and people like that, who have Main Roads Department is not on the at least an eight to 10-ton load, are unable right track. In my view loadings should be to get the concession because they are not worked out according to the pressure per square inch on the road surface. If we look registered carriers, and it is not practicable at the various axle loadings and the sizes for them to consign things from them- of the tyres permitted with these axle selves to themselves. This makes the posi- loadings we find that with some tyres a tion very difficult. person is permitted to carry as much as Then again, the pastoralists who cart 5,0401lb. per tyre. which, with that par- their own wool to the railhead and who ticular tyre, is the equivalent of one ton are ineligible for the concession have dif- for every 31Wsquare inches of contact with ficulty in obtaining trucks from the rail- road pavement. Those figures relate to a ways. They find that these trucks are twin-axle truck with single tyres--in other provided in all cases, at the railways' words, a truck with four tnes, (Tuesday, 8 November. 1986.1 213523

However, when we get to the bigger respect of MacRobertson Miller Airlines. trucks, such as the -M" we find that the The report states-- weight per tyre is 3,111 lb. This is equal My observations suggest that this to one ton on 38 square inches, as against company is giving satisfaction to the the 3141 inches for the truck previously majority of its users, and the fran- referred to. Therefore, there is far less chise the company has is justified pressure on the road with the bigger truck, bearing in mind the sparse and dis- and no damage is done. persed population to be served. Also, no consideration has been had by It could be that the majority of the the Main Roads Department, in the regu- people, on the surface, are satisfied with lations it has promulgated, for the new the existing services provided, hut when type of tyre known as the low profile tyre one gets among them one finds that they which replaces the dual tyres. Those are not extremely satisfied. If a person tyres have twice the area as compared with wishes to have a parcel sent up urgently, the old type tyres, and thus they act as a the only way to ensure it will arrive is to roller and do not place direct weight on pay express air freight on it, and that is any one spot. I believe much more could be double the ordinary air freight. When a done, particularly in the north where person wants to get a parcel up by air there are no bridges of any consequences freight, he usually has urgent need of the to worry about, in regard to axle loadings. article, This means that in time the ex- These could be increased, especially wvhere press air freight will become the pattern, tyres such as I have referred to are used. and it will be the only type of air freight. When the Main Roads Department is building roads it uses multi-rubber-tyred I feel that some competition should be vehicles carrying heavy weights; some of introduced in respect of air services. In them weigh up to 35 tons. This is done to the busy periods there is quite a bit of dis- consolidate the road and prepare it for the sension with regard to passenger air bituminising. That is what the department traffic, so we find there are many things thinks of multi-tyred vehicles, and I think which could be improved if the airlines I am right when I say that the late Ron concerned went into the matter properly. Duncan said, "If you can get a large num- I think a little competition along the line ber of vehicles to run over the roads the would prompt them to act. whole time you are making them instead When an air charter company wishes to of having the roads closed, you get a better inaugurate a service in this State, usually compaction of the road." objection is lodged by MacRobertson Miller I think a great deal could be done in Airlines. Narrogin was the centre con- regard to developing transport by having cerned in respect of such a service. The a look at the regulations; and rationalising charter aircraft company desired to run a them. bi-weekly service, but it was not lung be- Mr. Ross Hutchinson: They do that at fore MacRobertson Miller Airlines pointed the present time. out that it could cater for that centre. To find out what is required and to Mr. NORTON: Do what? obtain advice, we have to get among the Mr. Ross Hutchinson: Use vehicles for users of these services, because they are the compaction of the roads. the ones who are aware of the problems Mr. NORTON: Had the Minister been and who can give the necessary advice. listening to me he would have heard me The main object of the Bill is to set up say that one of the vehicles being used for a transport advisory council. The Minister this work weighs over 35 tons. is going about it the wrong way to estab- Mr. Ross Hutchinson: But it is the lish this council. The persons who are ordinary vehicle I am talking about. using the transport services should be the ones to be represented on the council. Mr. NORTON: I know what the Minister is talking about. I have already quoted Mr. O'Connor: Are you referring to the what one well-known engineer in the transport users' board? north-west, said in the early days. Mr. NORTON: I am referring to the Eng ineers of to-day are following in his transport advisory council which is to com- footsteps and carrying out the road- prise the director-general of transport and building methods he evolved. Our roads seven members. I will deal with the to-day are quite good, and the thanks for membership as I go along. The members that can go to the late Ron Duncan for proposed in the Bill are the top men in the work he did. their field of transport, and they hold high I notice also in Mr. Wayne's report that positions in various transport organisa- he refers to air services in the north-west. tions in this State; in other words, they From the way he refers to them I would are specialists. say be had his tongue in his cheek; and so At the present time we can only guess tit I cannot be misunderstood I think I who is to be appointed director-general. should quote what he had to say. The clause then prescribes that the council shall consist of eight members in- Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 7.30 p.m. eluding the chairman, who shall be the Mr. NORTON: Before tea I was about to director-general; and that one shall be quote from the report of Mr. Wayne in the Commissioner of Railways. Here Is 2130 2136[ASSEMBLY.]

an officer highly versed in one form of represent the north-west and remote areas, transport, and he is responsible to the and that they be nominated by the consul- Minister to get the best, and to show a tative councils appointed by the Minister profit, out of the operations of the rail- for the North-West to represent the ways. Therefore he will be jealous of the IKimberleys and the Pilbara, and the service for which he Is responsible and will Gascoyne, which takes in part of the not want other people to poach on his pre- Murchison. So here is a broad selection of serves. Then the clause prescribes the members from which a choice can be made. appointment of the Commissioner of Main I suggest three members from the South- Roads; probably he, of all the members West Land Division, and these members proposed, would be most conversant with would represent the farming interests. the problems of the north-west and the They could be nominated by the Farmers' remote areas, because he has worked in Union or similar organisations. Finally, those areas and knows, what is required. the three remaining members should repre- Then there is the Commissioner of Trans- sent city interests, and I suggest they be port. He has had quite a lot of experience nominated by the Chamber of Commerce, over the past few years in this capacity. the Chamber of Manufactures, and the The Chairman of the Metropolitan Trades and Labour Council. That would (Perth) Passenger Transport Trust is the result in a council of nine members, besides next member of the transport advisory the director-general who would represent council, but he is only conversant with broadly the users of transport. transport in the city; he is not aware of Such a committee would function very the problems in the north or in remote satisfactorily. It could call in the persons areas. The Chairman of the Western Aus- who are nominated in the Bill as members tralian Coastal Shipping Commission, is, I of the proposed transport advisory council. think, still learning his Job. This committee could call in the Com- Then we find that two persons are to missioner of Railways when matters con- be appointed by the Governor to hold cerning the railways were being discussed; office during his pleasure, and that one the Commissioner of Main Roads when shall be nominated by the Minister from a main roads problems were being discussed; panel of names of three persons to be sub- and so on. The Persons mentioned in mitted by the West Australian Road clause 10 of the Bill would then become Transport Association. This association the technical advisors to the committee would certainly know the transport re- which I have proposed. quirements, because its members comprise Should this committee be formed, then the biggest transport operators in the there would be no need for the setting up State, and at least 75 per cent. of them of the transport users' board which, under operate throughout the length and breadth the Bill, is to consist of the director- of Western Australia. general and four other persons. The pro- The clause then goes on to provide that vision in the Bill does not set out definitely the remaining person shall be nominated how the members are to be selected, but it by the Minister from a panel of names defin itely states who are to be the first four comprising the names of three persons members. Today in answer to a question submitted by each person operating a the Minister supplied the names of the regular air transport service on scheduled four persons who are at present on the and approved routes. There can only be Transport Advisory Board constituted one company to submit a, panel of three under the State Transport Co-ordination names the Minister shall from which select Act. They are- one. Mr. W. 0. McDonald, a, farmer. Any airline company which is registered Mr. J. Pinch, a pastoralist. He has to provide a service on regular routes has done a tremendous amount of re- to be licensed, in the first place by the searchi into transport, particularly Commonwealth, and in the second place, transport in the outback, and the by the State. But the schedules, freights, Minister is probably aware of and fares are the responsibility of the some of his work. Department of Civil Aviation or of the Mr. W. Finklestein, a manufacturer. Federal Minister, So here again we have Mr. P. Young, a chartered accountant. practically no control over the airline. He founded the Gascoyne Trans- Further, the Department of Civil port Coy., and I know him quite Aviation prescribes the places where the welt. aircraft shall land and shall not land, and if the committee which I have Proposed generally lays down the requirements is established there would not be a need under which the aircraft operates. Irres- for the appointment of the transport users' pective of the person to be nominated by board. This committee would be able to the airline, he should not be a member of recommend to the director-general, and the proposed transport advisory council. through him to the Minister, the best forms in my view, this council should comprise of transport to be adopted anid the best the director-general of transport and nine methods of co-ordinating them, because members. The reason for suggesting nine the personnel I have suggested arc ex- is that three should represent each of the perienced in transport matters and are three areas. I suggest that three should aware of the requirements. [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.1 2137

Clause 14 deals with proceedings of the little apprehensive about approaching him proposed transport advisory council, and after certain requests had been made to states that three members shall constitute me. a quorum; yet this council is to consist of However, since the report has been pub- eight members besides the director-general. lished, it has no doubt been widely read I cannot find anything in the Bill which by many members here, and I think Mr. presribes when this council shall meet; Wayne is to be congratulated on the mat- whether the members shall be called to- ter contained in the report. It is cer- gether as a body in toto; or whether the tainly comprehensive and deals with the director-general is to call in twvo or more transport problems of this State in very of the Persons named in the clause. Under simple language, which probably accounts clause 14 the director-general would only for the fact that I am able to understand need to call in two of the Members of the most of the contents of the report. council in order to hold a meeting. I must say I did not expect anything If the Minister can point out anything new in the way of recommendations be- different I would be pleased if he would cause, after all, there is a limit to the do so. Yet the other board is to have a type of recommendations that can be quorum of three members out of the total made, particularly in regard to the experi- of five. There does not seem to be any ence we have had here and the experience uniformity in that respect. A quorum of transport authorities overseas. should consist of 50 per cent, of the total The main concern of any transport number on the board, plus one. authority anywhere in the world is the I do not see that a quorum of three is competition from the private car, and this going to provide an efficient board. it is readily recognised by Mr. Wayne as will simply give the director-general the stated in his report. However, we must right to call together any two he would be thankful to Mr. Wayne for bringing like at a particular time. For instance, to togcther in one report all of the ideas deal with the M.T.T. he might call to- t.aFt have been advanced at various times gether two men from the shipping section by officers in his department-that is, the or the main roads section. I am not say- Railways Department-the Transport ing he would, but it would be possible Board in this State, and authorities over- for him to get together members to deal seas. No doubt the report also contains with a subject with which they were not recommendations which are purely the connected. I feel that the suggestion I brainchild of Mr. Wayne himself. have made would be far more equitable I think that the report provides a basis and would give far more satisfaction. for study of our transport for many years A Bill which is as important as this one to come. As far as I can see there is no is should not be rushed through the House. recommendation or conclusion which has It should be allowed in lapse for a while been uinitled from the report--none that I to give all those interested an opportu- could possibly think of anyway. When nity to study It. It would be interesting introducing the measure the Minister said to ascertain the exact ton miles travelled that, according to Mr. Wayne's report, the in Western Australia in a year. because if condition of the transport system in this we knew that we would realise the import- State was fairly healthy and that we ance of this Hill. I suggest to the Minis- should now establish a nucleus upon which ter that after the discussion on this Bill to build a balanced and healthy transport tonight the debate should be adjourned system-or words to that effect. and the Bill allowed to lapse this session. Mr. O'Connor: I said we must provide It could then be introduced again next a nucleus upon which to build a properly session, when all members after having co-ordinated transport system. had an opportunity to study it, could ex- Mr. DAVIES: That is more or less what press their views on it. I said. Of course this Is obviously the time MR. DAVIES (Victoria Park) [7.47 to do that before the whole transport p.m.): This legislation has been intro- system gets completely out of hand. With duced as a result of the report submitted regard to the individual transport systems by Commissioner Wayne after he had in this State a great deal has been done made extensive studies both in Western in the past few years in connection with Australia and overseas. The report was the railways. Unfortunately, I cannot. made available to interested members from my close contact with the staff, say earlier this year and also, after some that the morale of the staff, generally, is trouble, to other sections of the com- very much higher than it was five years munity which expressed an interest in it. ago. I believe it is lower than it was five It is a matter for regret that it was not years ago. I state this from may personal made available more generally. I under- contact with railway officers and employees stand that for economic reasons only a -and I have quite a close contact with limited number of copies were printed. them. However. I must say that on each occa- Mr. Rlushton: You must move in the sion I1approached the Minister for addFi- wrong circles. tional copies, he was quite happy to make Mr. DAVIES: No. I do not mind them available to me, although I was a stating that I have contact with these 2138 2138[ASSEMBLY.I officers. I am qute happy to call an can recall that only last year or the year ordinary working man a friend. before we gave quite a deal of attention Mr. Rushton: You misunderstood me. I to the reorganisation of the service. As I meant that you must have been talking to quoted the other night from the Grants the wrong ones. I have spoken to many Commission report, the service has still of them and they are pretty happy. exceeded its permissible loss by something like $460,000 for 1964-65. 1 will be very Mr. DAVIES: It might depend on which interested to see the result of last year's ones we talk to. Members may recall operation. If the motives behind the that I was the Assistant Secretary of the reorganisation, as explained to us in the Railway Officers' Union for 10 years, and House when the legislation was submitted, I still have close contact with that union. were genuine and sincere, we must surely I receive the minutes of their council meet- expect some improvement in the service as ings once a fortnight and I have contact a whole. with the officers, and I have read the cor- The airline service has been a bone of respondence put before the governing body contention in many sections of the com- of the union. munity for a long time. We have, in effect, As a result of all this I am able to assess a monopoly here, without any chance of the morale, and these days it is no higher another service entering the field in than it was five years ago. No one can Western Australia. F'rom the opinions argue about the trading results of the expressed by many of those concerned department. They are, of course, much when we were in the north in June and improved, but here again I am not quite JulY, I would say that the people were not of the accounting procedures wholly happy with the service now pro- certain vided and that they feel there Is ample adopted to achieve those results. Opportunity and scope for another air- Mr. Hawke: You are aware that freights line to enter into competition with the and fares have been thumped up a few present one in this State. times. Indeed, considering the Government's Mr. DAVIES: This is a little away from Policy of free enterprise and competition, I the contents of the Bill. I Was dealing imagine it would be delighted to introduce with the various sections of transport another airline to create some competi- which are to come under this Bill, and I tion. As I have said, from reports we have have stated my feelings in regard to the heard here and from the contact we made railways. with the people in the north-west earlier I have the highest regard for the Metro- this year, it is quite obvious that politan Transport Trust. MacRobertson Miller Airlines, or Ansett- I have not had A.N.A. as it is now, is not doing the job we very much contact with the employees would hope an airline would do in this of that trust, so I cannot comment in that State; and it is not doing a job we have regard. However, I have had contact with come to expect from modemn airlines these the administration-the chairman and his days. deputy-on a number of occasions in con- This Bill proposes to establish two new nection with various problems which have bodies-a council and a board. If these arisen in my electorate and in surrounding two bodies are appointed, we will no doubt electorates, and I say without hesitation in the future argue about the decisions that these men are a perfect model as to made by them, and particularly by the what those in a Government department council. The council is to be directly re- should be like. They are ever anxious to sponsible to the Minister, or, to put it the assist if a genuine request is submitted to other way, the Minister will have control them and they are able to assist without of the council. No doubt the decisions any less to the department. These men to made by the council will be argued back whom I have referred are only too anxious and forth on many occasions, Particularly, I at all times to see what can be done; and should imagine, if the council recommends I say that if every Government department the closure of certain railway lines. That was modelled on the M.T.T., we would have again is a subject in regard to which many a civil service about which we could not debates have taken place in this House on complain. a number of occasions-long before I en- As pointed out in Mr. Wayne's report, tered the Chamber. the future of the M.T.T. must be carefully Mr. Graham: Quite interesting. considered. I think he states that parallel Mr. DAVIES: However, we are arguing services run almost a mile apart and this. tonight on the aspect as to whether a in effect, is almost a door-to-door service council and a board are desirable. The Bill for the whole of the metropolitan area. contains the major recommendations of The two remaining services which are the Wayne report, with two very import- to come under this Bill, are the State ant exceptions. The Wayne report recom- Shipping Service and the airlines. With mended that parking should come under regard to the State Shipping Service, I one of these authorities, Possibly the have been waiting for a considerable time council. The other recommendation was for that report to be tabled. AS yet it has that there should be one licensing not appeared, but it is quite overdue. I authority for the State. Of course we know want it because of a particular interest. I this is a hot potato as far as the Govern- (Tuesday. 8 November, 1960.] 273973 meat is concerned, and I am, with a great a member. I agree that such a person deal of interest, waiting -to learn what is should be included. proposed in this regard. The Premier Mr. Wayne recommended that the looked up with interest, and I thought for private road transport section should be a moment he was going to make an represented by the President of the W.A. Interjection. Road Transport Association and that the Mr. Brand: No, you are going along internal airlines should be represented by quite nicely. the Chairman of Directors of MacRobert- Mr. DAVIES: Thank you. son Miller Airlines Limited. As members Mr. O'Connor: Are you going to move know from reading subelause (4) of clause an amendment in regard to this?. 10, the Government has amended this to Mr. DAVIES: I do not know whether we Provide that the Road Transport Associa- should or not. The Premier is scowling at tion shall submit a panel of three names you, so You had better not suggest it. I and the Dti1inister shall select a member thought that at the conference of local from these people. I agree that is a far authorities in Perth this week some an- better systemn of appointing a person to a nouncement might have been made in re- council of this nature. gard to the Government's intention about I consider the President of the W.A. licensing. We will watch that point with Road Transport Association may be a interest. This is one of the notable hail-fellow -well -met, but he may not have omnmissions from the recommendations in the qualifications necessary to go on the the report of Mr. Wayne. council which is proposed. Similarly, the As I say the other point is in connection Bill suggests that three namnes shall be with the control of parking. Despite the submitted to the Minister in regard to strong recommendations that are made to airlines' representation. Here again, I take over control of parking in the city, think it is far better that there should be and the close city area, I do not think the a selection made on the basis of the best Government would be too anxious to do of the three names which are submitted, this. because the Chairman of Directors of When a report such as this is brought MacRobertson Miller Airlines may be a down and most of the recommendations person who occupies that position because are accepted, it is a pity that the two of his financial knowledge rather than his matters which I have mentioned have been knowledge of airlines. omitted. I feel we should have some ex- The only point I wish to query with planation from the Government as to why regard to this clause is the stipulation that they have been omitted. If the recom-_ the names shall be submitted by each mendations form a total picture with person operating a regular air transport regard to the traxi~purL in this State, and service. I am not at all sure as to0 what these two which I have mentioned are that r-efers. It probably refers to charter classed amongst the important recom- services as well, because the regular mendations, I think Parliament is entitled services, as far as I can see, are only those to know why they have been omitted. operated by MacRobertson Miller Airlines. Personally, I feel it is rather a pity that Mr. O'Connor: Later on, other services they have been omitted, because I would could come in. certainly like to see the licensing of motor Mr. Graham: Not while the present vehicles, etc., under one authority. Judging Federal Government is in office; it looks by the very healthy figures that have been after Reggie. reflected in the trading of the Perth City Council over the past 12 months, I would Mr. DAVIES: At the present time, of like also to see parking under Government course, subclause (4) of clause 10 provides control. If this were done, perhaps it that the names shall be submitted by those would help to meet some of the expenses of services which are operating regular air the proposed council and the proposed transport services; and, of course, with board. the situation which obtains today, this means MacRobertson Miller Arilines. The council, itself, has been very wvell dealt with by the member for Balcatta. It I would like to deal further with the follows almost exactly up~on the recom- council. The powers of the council are mendations contained in the Wayne report, practically the same as those set out in apart from the fact that it was not recom- the Wayne report; these are contained on mended in that report that the Commis- page 47. Of course they are phrased sioner of Main Roads should be a member. differently in the report, but, as far as I This is an addition which has been in- can see, the whole of the recommendations cluded by the Government, and I consider from the report have been transpose'i into it is a good addition. For those members the duties of the director-general. who have the report before them, the Whether this board is necessary and suggested organisation of the council, as it whether it is going to be effective is some- is to be called-but the authority, as it was thing which only time will tell. I am to be recommended-is contained on page rather surprised that the heads of trans- 13 of the report. As I have said, the only port services throughout the State and the addition which is made in this Bill is that representatives of people concerned with the Commissioner of Main Roads shall be transport have not already met on some 2140 [ASSEMBLY.]

kind of ad hoc basis. I feel that they have under the council secretariat. Perhaps failed in their duty if they have not been the Minister will explain why these quali- doing so. fications are demanded. This puzzles me, At a later stage, perhaps the Minister because I cannot see their use. I do not will be able to tell us If, in fact, they have imagine the appointment will be full time. made any representations. On this note, This is another point which the Minister I would like to say that I shall support might clear up for me, but, as I said, I do the council and wish it well. I consider not imagine the transport users' board is it has a tremendous job before it, but no going to be a full-time board. Indeed, it doubt the longer it is left, the harder the cannot very well, because the chairman is job is going to be. the director of the council, and as he can- I am rather confused about the sug- not occupy two full-time positions, the gested transport users' board. Somehow transport users' board is not going to be or other I cannot help but feel that this a full-time board. Why are we going Provision has been transposed into this to have highly qualified men on this Bill from the State Transport Co-ordina- board? Is the reason just that they will tion Act in an endeavour to keep the give their attention to certain matters transport advisory committee operating. which come before them? These matters There is a provision for the members of are very wide and I will deal with them the transport advisory committee to serve shortly. the remainder of their term-or their As I say, the stipulation is that these sentence, if one likes to call it that-as men will be highly qualified, but it is not members of the transport users' board. required that they should be users of Mr. Norton: These members have been transport. They should know something on this board for years. about transport, not from their own ex- Mr. DAVIES: Of course, their time must perience, but by talking to people who expire at some stage, and until such time use transport. I think the name itself is as it does expire, the Government will not a misnomer and that these qualified men be embarrassed by sacking them if it can are going to cut across the duties of the transfer them from the transport advisory secretariat of the council. I cannot see conmmittee to the transport users' board very much use for the board, particularly under the provisions of this Hill. as it is going to be on a part-time basis. Clause 15 provides that the board shall I feel that what it is proposed the board consist of five members, including the should do could adequately be done by the chairman. The director-general shall, of council, although definitely the council is course, be the chairman and the other set on a higher plane. members of the board will comprise four I have spoken about remuneration be- persons appointed by the Governor on the fore in this House, and I understand there nomination of the Minister, and they will is a suggested scale for people who sit hold office for three years. on boards. I understand this remuneration What rather puzzles me is the qualifi- is set on a fairly firm basis and it has cations which are demanded of a person been applied by the Government over the in order that he may become one of the years. No doubt the same scale will apply four members to be appointed by the to members of this board. Minister. The persons shall, in the Minis- Reverting to the duties of the board, I ter's opinion, be those who are capable of would like to know how often it is pro- asessing the financial and economic ef- Posed the board shall meet and what fect on the transport users of any pro- secretarial staff will be necessary, apart posed or existing transport policy and of from the secretarial staff which is at- whom two are, in his opinion, particularly tached to the council. if it is just going to versed in the transport needs of rural meet as a board occasionally in order to industries, discuss matters, I still cannot see very We cannot cavil at the fact that two much use for it. of the representatives are to be representa- The board is charged with the duty of considering and, where it so resolves, of tives of rural areas. Nevertheless, the making recommendations on any matter qualifications required of board members, affecting a transport service operating in generally, seem rather puzzling to me, be- the State or touching the lack or inade- cause I1think this proposition cuts across quacy of atransport service where that the duties of the proposed secretariat matter- which will be set up by the council. (a) has been the subject of a repre- As I understand the position, the coun- sentation made to the Board by, cil is to be charged with certain work with or on behalf of, the users, or per- regard to research, budget, and planning sons who would, if the service generally for the whole of the transport were established, be users, of the system throughout this State. To my transport service: or mind, and from the qualifications which (b) appears to the Board to be such are demanded of the members of the to which consideration should be transport users' board, these people are given. going to cut across the work of the Pro- These conditions are contained in clause posed research offices which will be set up 24 of the Bill, which also Provides that ETuesday, 8 November, 1988.] 214114

the board may refer matters to the coun- MR. RUISHTON (Dale) [8.15 p.m.]: It cil, has been said that rail transport is capable As was explained by the member for of moving 50,000 persons an hour; that Balcatta, here again the members of the road transport can handle approximately board do not have to be experienced in 15,000 persons an hour; and that private using public transport. Anyone who is transport falls far behind in its capacity likely to use, or has used, public transport to handle a large number of people, in that can refer a matter to the board and ask it transports only 3,500 persons an hour. that it be discussed by the members of I have heard members on the other side of the board. Alternatively, there is the very the House agree, and I think we can 'wide cover-all paragraph (b) of subelause all agree, that the Government is coming (1) of this clause which reads- to grips with a tremendously important (t) appears to the Board to be such issue in matching transport needs for the to which consideration should be very long distances between our various centres and through areas which are given, sparsely populated. Of course, that Provision opens the field very wide indeed and adds to my con- Of course, the people to be charged with fusion regarding the duties and the opera- the responsibility of implementing the pro- tions of the board. This seems to be a visions of the Bill before us will duplication of services. Perhaps the board have to be men of tremendous may be dealing with minor matters, but calibre and capability, and I am sure the I would still like to know how it is pro- Government-as it has done on many posed it will operate and how often it will other occasions-will find the right men meet. for this task. I am sure that the rest of the matters The objects of the measure were contained in the Bill have been adequately outlined very well by the Minister in his covered already this evening. If we are speech when he Introduced the second going to have a transport users' board, reading of the Bill. The following is an ex- there should be much wider representation tract from part of his speech and, in fact on it than, say, two members from the is a quotation fromn a report made some country and two others with certain statis- years ago to the President of the United tical and accountancy qualifications. I States of America by a national resources consider that perhaps we should provide planning board:- for a genuine transport user to be on the an adequate transporation board-somebody who actually experienices. system operating at a high degree of it day by da.y. This member could perhaps effloleney and at low cost: with each be drawn from those who travel by train made of transport operating in its fileld or by bus. of .greatest economy and usefulness and functioning with a minimum of To my mind, it seems that the proposed waste and duplication. .. composition of the board is too far above This is something all of us look for and, those who have any practical knowledge of as I said before, in a State such as Western transport in this State. I really cannot Australia it is of the utmost importance feel it is going to be of very much advani- that this be done effectively. tage, particularly as there are matters be- fore us which are contained in other Bills In years gone by many of us would have which deal with a transport commission. had Personal experiences of transport problems and no doubt we thought some- Unless I can obtain some satisfactory thing better could have been done in this answers to the one or two points I have field; but the way the Government has set raised in regard to the Bill, I will be in- about implementing this proposal, by hav- clined to oppose the setting-up of such a ing Mr. Wayne submit this report at a body at this time. I consider it is in- time when there is tremendous growth In cumbent upon Parliament to watch ex- our State, is very welcome. At this point pense; and, obviously, a board of this I would like to mention that Mr. Wayne is nature is going to cost something to set to be commended for the report he has up and maintain. As I said before, I feel presented, and I think all would agree this is a duplication of the duties which with the main issues he has put forward. I would expect the secretariat and the In my opinion the Government is doing council to look after. what is expected of it by matching the With those few words, I would say I transport needs of the State with the pro- am pleased that some kind of action has posals contained in the Bill. Clause 21, been taken to consolidate transport in this in concise words, sets out the duties of the State and to plan for the future. I am director-general of transport. In this not very happy about all the proposals in clause he is charged, among other things, the various measures which are to come to recommend to the Minister transport before Parliament in regard to transport policy or changes in transport policy; to reorganisation, but I am certainly pre- oversee the implementation of such of the pared to give the council a try in order policies as are approved by the Minister, to see if the recommendations which have and to make provision for, and to super- been made in the Wayne report can be vise, research in transport planning and implemented. operation. 2142 2142ASSEMBLY.)

To me, in its present set-up, as we know the inquiries I have made, this has been it, the research section of transport plan- successful, and no doubt the member for ning has not been adequately covered, and, Swan will be able to give some further of necessity, someone is needed to con- information on it as he is more closely centrate on research. With the imple- related to this part of the world than I mentation of the Bill this matter will be am. However, to me, this improved trans- attended to. As stated by others, the Per- Port service to meet the needs of the sonnel of the transport advisory Council People in my electorate will be most wel- have been well selected to give us the come. result that is being asked of them. I feel Feeder services bring to mind a tremen- the inclusion of the Commissioner of Main dous future for the State in that we will Roads on this council is most important. I be able to have them serve establishments have read reports submitted by various with a high density of people such as- authorities on our highways and on future teachers' colleges. These feeder services demands which must be met and, to me, will be able to tranship people to other without going into any great detail, this points where they will be picked up by is one facet which will need detailed high-capacity transport services. and these thinking and planning -by the proposed are the improvements I am looking for- transport advisory council. ward to being effected. Mr. Norton: What do you think of the I close, therefore, with the thought that number required for a quorum? the Government, in bringing this legisla- Mr. RUSHTON: When one considers tion forward, is presenting a very welcome the personnel who form the council and measure to us, because it certainly repre- the duties they have to perform, I think sents the taking of a step which the people the number is reasonable, and I think the of Western Australia have been earnestly honourable member will agree with me expecting. With those remarks, I support when he gives the matter further con- the Bill. sideration. Mr. MR. BURT (Murchison) [8.25 p.m.]: Hawke: Why have a quorum at all? Speaking in support of the Bill, I want to Mr. RUSHTON: The measure will do make reference to one or two items in much to protect the present environment Commissioner Wayne's report, particularly and the way of life we enjoy. Our roads that section concerning north-west trans- could easily become cluttered with vehicles port,' in which the interior of Western and we could become weighed down with Australia takes precedence. In that re- the attendant problems of transport, and port it is stated, quite rightly I think, that so I think the Bill will present the answer transport to the north should commence for which we are searching. In my opinion on the roads from the railheads at the city in the future will be greatly en- Geraldton and Meek atharra. But I also hanced and receive tremendous benefit notice that Mr. Wayne suggests that a from the wark to be performed by this third road should serve the north comn- transport advisory council. mencing from Mullewa, because this might Becoming a little parochial, and dealing be advantageous to those who reside in with my own district, for some years now the central portions of the north-west. I the people in my electorate have been cannot agree with Mr. Wayne in regard looking for the implementation of a plan to that suggestion. to effect improved transport services. I I consider the whole of the north-west can recall, a few years ago, a meeting being is adequately served by road by means of held in the Roleystone hall to which the the two main highways: the North West senior officers of the metropolitan (Perth) Coastal Highway from Geraldton to Passenger Transport Trust were invited, Carnarvon and on to Port Hedland- and the suggestion made to them then was which, incidentally, is being sealed right that feeder bus services should be provided through to Port Hed land-and the Great to convey people to the nearest railway Northern Highway from Meekatharra. station-this would have been Kelmiscott- which serves all the interior portions of because it was considered that this would the north-west to Marble Bar and on to be a Step forward in regard to co-ordinat- Port Hedland, and also the centre of that ing our transport service and effecting part of the State. economies. Admittedly the road that would lead The officers who attended the meeting from Mullewa, only 60 miles east of on that occasion were amazed to think Qeralfiton, would he very advantageous to that people in this outer suburb were in- the iron ore companies which are now in terested in transhipment of passengers and operation. I refer to the Mt. Tom Price were suggesting what they considered iron ore undertaking and the Mt. Golds- would be a better service at the risk of worty iron ore company, However, as some personal inconvenience to themselves. fqr Ps the Mt. Newman iron ore company I believe the public would readily accept is concerned-and we are hopeful that this this so-called inconvenience, and I think company will soon he in operation-the we are all looking forward to studying the existing road north from Meekatharra result of the Midland experiment be- could adequately cater for all the require- cause, from what I can gather, following ments of that company now that the other [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.] 214314 two iron ore projects are having trans- I think that generally a more far-seeing parted from their respective ports their attitude will be applied to these problems main items of inward cargoes which will which do, to a great extent, have a bear- come from the south either by ship or ing on the economic transport of stock and along the North West Coastal Highway. other cargo in the north-west. We realise, of course, that contailnerlsed I understand that the matter of freight cargo will play a big part in the develop- subsidies, which have for a long time helped ment of the north, and in that respect the the outback areas, is comning under con- town of Meekatharra will be the jumping- sideration, and that some more uniform off point for transport serving the cen- type of subsidy is to be made available. in tral part of the north-west. This, I hope. the area I represent, certain railway lines will result in the upgrading of the railway have been closed over the last 20 years, and line which is now operating between subsidies have been paid to the residents Mullewa and Meekatharra. of those areas to ensure that goods which I would also refer to the possibility of were carted to their destinations would not iron ore being mined at Wilgie Mia, out cost any more in freight than they did from Cue. If this does come about it would when the railways operated in those areas. lend emphasis to the upgrading of the line These subsidies have not been consistent. I have mentioned and would in all In the towns of Wiluna, Laverton, and probability bring about the deepening of Sandstone there are different subsidies the Geraldton Harbour, because that affecting different classes of freights. The would be the nearest port for the Wilgie position is altogether unsatisfactory. MIA area. I trust, therefore, that when the trans- Whilst the Bill seeks to co-ordinate port advisory council comes into being, a most forms of transport in Western Aus- more uniform rate of subsidy will be paid tralia I consider two very important to the residents in areas throughout aspects of road transport are still outside Western Australia. the ambit of this proposed advisory There is one more matter to which I council. I refer to the regulations govern- wish to refer. In his report Mr. Wayne ing the dimensions of road vehicles, par- lists a number of railway lines which ticularly those which govern axle loading. eventually might have to be closed. I am Both these subjects are cause for a great not disclosing any secrets when I say that deal of concern in the north-west and in it is likely that the Kalgoorlie-Leonora the eastern goldlfields, and in his report line will come under the axe before very Mr. Wayne recommends that certain con- long. The fact has never been hidden by cessions could be given in respect of the Government, that when a sealed road vehicle dimisensions. especially relating to reaches Leonora some consideration will those vehicles operating in the northern be given to closing that line. parts of the State. That, of course, will be tragic. Admit- We know that the Police Department, tedly the bitumen road does adequately which administers these regulations, has take the place of the railway line in many recently relaxed, somewhat, the regula- Instances, and it is favoured by a number tion governing the maximum width of of people in a district that has hitherto vehicles. The department has increased been served by a railway line for 60 the maximum width of transport vehicles or 70 years. But to cease completely the by another 21&inches. running of a train service would be tragic; Mr. Norton: That is to overcome the and, whilst most of the residents would M.T.T. problem. like to have their cake and eat it-in other Mr. BURT: I do not know how it has words they would like to cart their goods come about, but I am grateful to what has by road, but at the same time have the brought it about: and I believe that many railway line open-when the line is run- other regulations restricting the opera- ninz uneconomically, and when the ser- tion of vehicles in the north-west vices of 50 or 60 men are lost in respect generally could be revised. I refer to the of the maintenance of this line, It has a regulations governing overall length, very serious effect on the district. swept width dimensions, and axle load- If it is the intention of the Govern- ing which, although controlled by the ment-and I hope it is not--to close the Police Department, to no small extent the Min- service, I hope no action will be taken to come under the jurisdiction of remove the rail track, because in the event ister for Works who administers the Main of any mining activity that might occur, Roads Department. quite apart from gold-which is always a Surely it will be more advantageous to possibility-the rail service could be put have these regulations under the all- into operation and used again. embracing control of the Transport Advisory Council. I hope that after the I feel the Bill generally, will be advisory council has experimented to a extremely favourable to transport in the certain extent in the co-ordinating of all outback areas; but I again emphasise forms of transport, consideration will be the fact that I would like to see restric- given to Promulgating regulations govern- tions of vehicle dimensions and axle load- Ing vehicle dimensions and over-weight ing brought under the control and auspices restrictions, and placing them under the of the transport advisory council. I sup- control of the proposed advisory council. port the Bil, 2144 2144[ASSEMBLY.]

MR. BRADY (Swan) [8.35 pmn.]: I I could enlarge on this at great length wish to make a few remarks In connection as it relates to my own Personal feelings, with this Hill. I regret very much that but I do not wish to be parochial; nor I have not had a great deal of time to do I wish to be critical of the Perth City study Commissioner Wayne's report, or, Council. but I would like to quote a para- generally, to do research into the whole graph from the leading article in The system of transport in Western Australia, West Australian of Saturday, the 5th Particularly as it relates to the M.T.T., the November. I know you do not like long- Transport Board, the annual railway re- drawn-out quotations being made from the Port, and the question of shipping. Had paper, Mr. Speaker, but this one states- I been able to do so I could have made MOVE TO COORDINATE some remarks that would prove my Point TRANSPORT SERVICES in connection with the recommendations With one important exception the made in the various reports. State government is going a long way I have felt for some time it is inevitable in its Transport Coordination Bill to that sooner or later we must have a co- give effect to the recommendations of' ordinating board in relation to transport, the Wayne report. generally, similar to that which is en- The most serious omission is that visa-ed in this Bill. When introducing there is still no provision for central- the Bill the Minister said he hoped it ised control of parking. The Perth would be a healthy step and the nucleus City Council and other local authori- of a well balanced and efficient service. ties are being allowed to retain their Those are very laudable sentiments. The parking powers, at least for the time Minister said there was too little evidence being. This means that an important of any large measure of co-operation in element in uniform control is missing. regard to transport and any decisions con- The government has made no attempt cerning public investment in the various to explain its timidity in this. forms of transport. There is quite a lot It then goes on to deal with the proposi- of meat in that statement. tion that the Minister for Transport could well be handling railways and all trans- The Minister hopes that as a. conse- port matters, generally. As I was saying. quence of the board being established it the matter of parking is very important will bring about economies and a well- indeed, and more encouragement should balanced and efficient service. He then be given to the general public to use public went on to say that the board would deal transport rather than their own private with road, rail, sea, and air transport. transport. If public transport were used There are many things taking place in a lot of congestion could be eliminated in Western Australia at the moment in re- the peak hour traffic movement in the gard to road, rail, sea, and air transport morning and in the evening. This would which will have a very big bearing on the enable a greater flow of transport in and future economy and well-being of the out of the city. State. Unless all these transport organi- Recently the Commissioner of Main sations are co-ordinated, there could be a Roads addressed an organisation in Perth. lot of waste of public money, and a great and, in dealing with the Perth freeway deal of frustration for people engaged in and the road system, he said, in effect. various transport activities. that the Main Roads Department was Even if the only outcome of the board's planning for only 34 per cent. to use activities is a comprehensive research into private transport and 54 per cent. to use all these factors, it will be well worth public transport, and for 9 per cent. to be while. We know that daily in the metro- within walking distance of the city. politan area great difficulty is experienced It seems a pity that the Government in connection with the flow of transport has not done something, to deal with the in and out of the city during the peak parking problem In the city-something hours of the morning and the evening. which would discourage the general public Ultimately a lot more must be done to from bringing private vehicles into the encourage the community to use public city. If ever the Government gets around transport rather than private transport. to deciding that it will do something about this problem, in view of the great difficul- That brings me to say that I regret ties it is already causing-and the greater very much there has not been something difficulties it will cause in the future-it more comprehensive in this Bill which should give some thought to what the would deal with the matter of parking in Commissioner of Main Roads had to say. the City of Perth: because that is one When addressing the meeting to which I of the recommendations, as I understand referred, he said that the traffic flow into it, which is contained in Mr. Wayne's the city which we could have expected in report. He suggested that something the 2,000 was now anticipated to be reach- should be done In regard to this matter, ed by 1980. and I very much regret that the Govern- It would seem that private transport ment has not seen its way clear to in- is reaching the point where there is one clude in this Bill some provision which motor vehicle for three people in every would deal with this important aspect. 100 of the Population. So something must [Tuesday, e November, 1966.1 242145 be done to alleviate this problem. When tion together and left together;, there was the Government does take some action no co-ordination between the rail and the in regard to this matter of people using road service. So, when public finance has public transport rather than private trans- to be considered, we as a Parliament- port, I hope it will give the people plenty members of the Opposition and members of warning so that they will not be left on the Government side-must see that with cars valued at £1,200 to £1,500 lying the greatest return for the money invested idle in their backyards. is derived in regard to each service. I recall, approximately two years ago, In regard to the proposed director- having my first official interview with the general and board, I can see some advan- town planning people in connection with tages to the services, as one central body the closing of certain roads into the Mid- would carry out the major research in land workshops. The town planning respect of transport services. I think authorities told me that one of their major many advantages could be gained and problems in connection with the standard many economies made. Many of the gauge railway and the closing of certain Personnel of the existing services could be rights-of-way into the workshops was con- freed for other work: and I hope that is nected with parking for the vehicles of how it will turn out. I am inclined to the employees. They visualised there would think, having regard to the figures I have to be parking meters and parking mentioned a few minutes ago in respect charges in the Midland area. I told them of the money tied up in the railways, that there and then I hoped there would not the backbone of our transport services in be. So I was one who discouraged them Western Australia, without doubt, is the along those lines approximately 18 months railways; and the road transport services or two years ago. should be made to co-operate with the The very fact that the Commissioner railways. of Main Roads has seen fit to address a I am reminded that from time to time public body in connection with this matter, I see services operating which I do not and the fact that the Wayne report also think are giving the greatest efficiency so refers to it means the problem is there far as the public is concerned; and there now and something should be done about is not the best of co-operation in regard it. Like the leading article in The West to passenger services. If I remember cor- Australian, I regret the Government rectly, going through my own Swan elect- shelved the problem. However, it should orate there are dozens of buses that tra- have faced up to it and given the public verse Guildford Road through Guildford, ampole warning as to what it intended to yet one cannot pick up a bus on the other do. side of Bayswater to go to the hills. People Another reason for my speaking in con- living in Bayswater and Bassendean have nection with this matter is that we as to catch the train at Ashfield or Bassen- members of Parliament must have some dean and go to Guildford to catch 9, bus responsibility in seeing that money spent in order to go to the hills. on public transport is spent on aLproper In addition to that, if one goes to Bun- basis. Unless there Is proper planning be- bury or other south-west towns, one sees tween railway transport and road trans- dozens of log-hauling trucks on the road. port-I am talking about the M.T.T. now- In my opinion, there is inefficient manage- the ferry service, and other services, there ment and control somewhere. in addition could be a large waste of money. I have to that, on certain days of the week going mentioned previously in this House that to Albany and other areas in the country. I think the recognised cost of our present one can see hundreds of stock trucks railway system is something in the vicinity transporting stock and cluttering up the of £60,000,000; and the cost of the standard roads, whereas the stock should be hauled gauge railway has to be added to that by the railways. figure-another £50,000,000, or £55,000,000. Mr. Gayfer: How do you think they So the railway system in Western Australia would get on if the railway were taken has to find the sinking fund and interest, away? and face up to servicing the charges and Mr. BRADY: I know some people have depreciation, on an amount of £110,000,000. difficulties in this respect and considera- So it seems the other transport services tion has to be given to them. A central should be dovetailed in such a way that board of control could give these matters the railways will get the maximum return proper consideration and provide the for the money invested in road and rail necessary organisation. If things are transport services. In recent years there organised properly and road transport is has been ample evidence that such has not told to work in conjunction with rail been the case. I have heard it said on more transport, a lot of things could be done than one occasion that the Metropolitan efficiently and there would be great econo- Transport Trust is not co-operating with mies to this State. the railways and railway road services. It Hundreds of people from the country was a public scandal a few years ago when come to the metropolitan area at certain road and rail services were running to times of the year-at Royal Show time and Darlington. They both arrived at the sta- for the football finals--and public trans- 2146 2146ASSEMBLY.]

part should be so organised that these seems to me that road transport does not people can come down economically and want to run through the various suburbs in such a way that there would be a sav- like Eden Hill, Caversham, and the outly- ing to the State in transport casts. ing parts of the Swan electorate such as There is another matter about which the Hazelmere and South Guildford unless honourable member who interjected a there is a good profit to be made. short while ago will have some knowledge. In view of the fact that Public transport I refer to the difficulties experienced in is making good profits in other areas that recent times in regard to road haulage of are built up, it is only reasonable that a superphosphate. During the last six better service should be Provided in outly- months our attention has been drawn to ing suburbs that are being built up bY the difficulty experienced by the super- struggling men and women. This is one of phosphate hauliers in having to queue up the things to which the board could have at the superphosphiate works. With appro- regard. priate management and control by a board, I regret that from time to time the I believe a lot of these problems could be reports of various committees that have overcome. been set up to deal with road transport and Mr. Gayfer: Are they going to shovel it other public transport have not been out of the railway trucks? handed to members. In fact, I do not think they have been tabled in the H-ouse. Mr. BRADY: I would remind the hon- They have gone to various departments. ourable member who has just interjected and the departments have acted as they that my knowledge of superphosphate thought fit, according to whether it was handling-probably the honourable mem- the railways, the M.T.T., the ferry services, her does not know this-goes back for 10 or or some other department. I recall that 15 years when I was secretary of the when there were some difficulties in the Superphosphate and Chemical Transport Roongamis-Greenmount area, a certain Workers Union. In the course of my work report was obtained from the department I gave a great deal of thought to this concerned, but we never saw that report matter, and 15 years ago I suggested that in the House. aeroplanes, would ultimately fly into super- That brings me to the point-and the phosphate works and spread superphos- Minister will recall this matter-that phate over various parts of this State. I within the last 18 months, when the! know quite a deal about the subject and standard gauge railway was to be put can tell the honourable member the num- through Midland, the Koongamia rail ber of tonnages involved and number of service was discontinued. I argued that trucks experiencing the difficulty I men- it was the wrong thine: to do-nd I tioned earlier. still think it was the wrong thinz tn (40. Everybody is passing the buck; and the The point I want to emphasise is that the only way the job can be done, and will Minister, with one of his departmental be done, is to have people in control who officers and the member for Darling R,!nge, can enforce their decisions at law, whichn interviewed certain people in the Soon- is very different from the position that gamia electorate. Without doubt, we wire exists at the present time. given the impression that the road sq~rvice would run through Koongamia to Helena I now intend to get a little bit parochial. Valley, and that ample and adequat- road For some time I have been disappointed service would be available. However, that with the public road transport that oper- position has not come to light. The buses ates throughout the Swan electorate. Any- now running to Koongamia, stop where the body who takes the trouble to look up the railway services previously terminiated. M.T.T. report for 1955, table 7, will see the outline of the various routes travelled So it will be seen that whilst we are through the Swan electorate. In my led to believe these things will come about, opinion, they are badly planned and the and the people acquitsce in the Minister service is not what an organisation like going -ahead with his scheme, great dis- the M.T.T. should give; and not a suf- abilities can arise. The road transport ficient number of people have been service which we were lcd to believe was brought to the railways to go to the city. to be provided has not eventuated. In half a dozen places road transport Only as late as Saturady afternoon I runs into a dead end instead of being a went to ;ioongamia and observed the r-oad continuous service. Things of that nature service operating where the rail service seem to be occurring unnecessarily. I feel had previously operated. The buses vve that even the M.T.T., like some of the causing a lot of dust on the gravel roads, other Government departments, wants to about which the womenfolk have been be sure a profit will be retuirned before it complaining for the last 18 months. I will provide a service. That is one of the hope the Minister will take notice and see reasons I am pleased to see thne Minister that sometaing is done to improve the advocating that the whole of the services service and the state of the roads, in view be under the control of the Minister. I of the assurances we received some time hope that some of the public road transport ago. services will be prepared to experience a I am now drawing to the close of my loss until those services are built up. It speech, and I will finish on the same note ETuesday, 8 November, 1966.1 2147 as that on which I started. Having a forth for two years. The dictator to whom board may not be the perfect set-up; I refer said that a certain thing there could be room for improvement. I could not be done. Then, overnight, it was think I read something in the Wayne done. 'That could happen in many other report recommending that something be departments. done about trying to get overseas ships to I think I have said all I want to say on make Fremantle the first and last port of this Bill. I could say a lot more about call in Australia. If that could be brought rail transport and the closing of certain about. Western Australia would receive the services to Geraldton and Albany. I could greatest economic advantage in transport, talk about the development of the 3 ft. generally, that is possible in this State. 6 in. gauge and the 4 ft. 8* in. gauge in Mr. Hall: I would have to disagree with various Parts of the State. However, I that. could Probably get into difficulties with Mr. BRfADlY: The member for Albany some other members who are going to says he would have to disagree, but he loses speak on this Bill. sight of the fact that Albany would receive I think this board had to come, sooner a lot of advantages if overseas manufact- or later. It will be an overall advantage urers were to make Fremantle the first to everybody and whilst it may appear to and last port of call in Australia. The be costly, I think if it is organised proper- impact on Fremantle itself, in warehousing ly and it does research by departmental and other facilities, would be stupendous. officers, great economies will be achieved Also, the ultimate result and benefit for when it is sct up. Instead of all the whole of the metropolitan area could the departments and different sections be a great step forward economically. building up their own research pro- Whilst on that subject. I mention the grammes, and carrying out their own in- tact that we know modern trends are to- vestigations in the Eastern States and wards having what are called "seatainers" overseas, all those things could be done and similar types of facilities. In fact, some through the one body. I can see that great of the big firms are specialising in making advantages will accrue. this type of package in order to have the I am not going to touch on air trans- maximum haulage with minimum hand- port. although I could have a lot to say ling. Incidentally, there is also the mini- on that subject. I will not touch on the mum pilferage, and that is an advantage. north-west: I believe that can be left to I realise that a board of the kind to be the north-west members. With 1,000,000 set up, could, without a great deal of square miles of our State going forward, difficulty, recommend that a place like I cannot think of a better time to have Midland be the terminal of the standard this measure introducer! in order that all gauge railway, as far as the passenger sections of the community can express services and much of the goods traffic their viewpoint in regard to the setting up is concerned. That, in my opinion, is a of the board. Practicable project now and I think it I regret that the consumers-or the users should be looked at. -are not to be represented on the board. I cannot see the value of bringing thous- I think they could well be. Also, the trade ands and thousands of people into the unions which, to some extent, are going to metropolitan area to clog up the Perth make or break the workings of this board station, and have those people catching are not represented either on the users' buses and trains back to the eastern sub- board or the main board, which is to be urbs. It could well be a practical propos- the advisory board to the director-general. ition that quite a lot of the standard gauge The practical men could well be represent- freight coming from the Eastern States ing the every day users of public transport, could be off-loaded at Midland and trans- just as we have a consumers' representative ported from there to the metropolitan area. on the abattoir hoard. There is no reason The board to be set up could make de- why we could not have a member of the cisions like that, but I do not want to general Public, who is using road transport enlarge on that point. I could well do so or Public transport, on the board. and probably cause embarrassment to some With my concluding remarks I support departmental officers. the Bill and I hope that in 10 or 20 years' It seems to me that every transport time the public will acclaim the setting up department is out for itself, and the gen- of this beard as one of the greatest steps eral Public is carrying the baby. That Is forward ever. with regard to transport in another reason why I am Pleased the Min- Western Australia. ister desires to take over the control of all the transport activities. I think we could MR. JAIMESON (Beelco) (9.10 p.m.]: well build up little dictatorships in some Seeing that the member for Avon so kindly of the departments which would have the condcscended to allow me to speak next- final say. I can quote a classic example of a little Mr. Gayfer: I always follow You. dictator in another department. it is an Mr. JTAMIESON: -T will warn him that absolute classic where correspondence and I will not be very long, in case he is think- deputations and letters Passed back and ing of taking a stroll. There are a few 2148 2148ASSEMBLY.] matters on which I wish to address myself The Government will get little co- in connection with this Bill. operation from the various departments if The first matter concerns the Wayne it follows this practice. The Government report which was made available to the should take a lesson from the Past few public, to a lesser degree, some time ago. weeks and make sure it consults the MY colleague, the member for Victoria parties concerned before bringing legisla- Park, referred to the fact that the report tion before the House. has been made available in limited num- We have seen this sort of thing with a bers; and the Minister has endeavoured to number of issues, not only with respect to make some copies available. It would transport but also many other matters appear to me to be an omission on the where people with wide interests have part of his department, in the first place, been affected by certain legislation, but that vitally affected organisations-such as there has been a lack of consultation with, some of the large trade unions--have not and a lack of consideration of, those been able to get possession of a copy of the people before that legislation was pre- sented to Parliament. As a result, on report. The member for Victoria Park occasions, Ministers have had to race in noted that three of the railway unions with amendments to iron out difficulties were without copies, but he had been able that need never have arisen had the parties to scrounge a few copies and supply them. concerned been able to get together and However, one of the biggest unions has not discuss the legislation before it wvas intro- yet obtained a copy of the report. duced. In most of those eases the Minis- I have repeatedly asked that reports be ters concerned have had to agree to made available. No doubt all the other alterations taking Place because it was organisations interested In the transport essential that amendments be made. set-up would have a copy made available If the people concerned are not con- to them. I refer to the M.T.T. and other sulted then the legislation which is intro- operators who might be affected. I think duced to cover those people is not good it should be an understanding that on any legislation. If the Government has a policy future occasion when a report on a special which it intends to implement then, of matter is published, all those Organ- course, it is entitled to do so whether it isations which may be affected should re- keeps the legislation secret until it is ceive the courtesy of a copy being made introduced or whether it discusses that available to them by the department con- legislation with the departments con- cerned. And, of course, the Ministers cerned. However, if there is some dis- should also see that members of Parlia- cussion between the departments and the ment get a copy. Ministers involved, there is a much better I draw attention to the fact that here feeling engendered between the adminis- again the Government seems to have tration and the Executive. and this results brought forward legislation without con- in better legislation. With measures such tacting and discussing the matter with as this I believe such prior consultation is the various departments which will be essential. affected. I noticed in an article in The Probably this Bill Is quite unnecessary West Australian of the 4th November, 1966, because, as the member for Balcatta some comments by a writer in connection indicated, we have had some degree of co- with the State Government hoping that ordination of transport for some consider- its proposed machinery for the co-ordina- able time; and in this connection the tion of all forms of transport would be honourable member mentioned various set up by April. After some further com- Acts which have been on the Statute book ments, the writer said that M.T.T. chair- for many years. The West Australian, in man. Mr. 1. E. Thomas, said yesterday, its editorials, has, for a number of years. when asked, that he was unable to com- been advocating that all forms of trans- port should be placed under the control of ment on the Government's proposals be- one cause he did not know of the proposition. Minister: and with that contention I had not been consulted on wholeheartedly agree. If that were done I and that he feel sure most of our transport Problems the legislation. would be ironed out. That is a growing tendency on the part of the Government when introducing In that event surely it would be ele- le'islation. People are stating that they mentary to have one co-ordinating corn- had no knowledge of the matters before inittee Of advisers so that there would be they were brought before the House, and no Overlapping of transport facilities by this cpises discontent within the commnun- the different methods of transport, such ity. There is no necessity, of course, to as has occurred in this State, as was have the contents of a Bill made public clearly indicated by the member for generallv. ond to be common knowledge, Swan. The prevention of the overlapping before it is brought to the House, but when of parallel services would be the adminis- the Minister, or some Government official. trative responsibility of the co-ordinating releases a story to Mr. Smith, of The West committee. The Minister having set out Australian, surely to goodness courtesy his Policy on such matters, would then be requires that the Minister or the depart- able to rely on his co-ordinating committee, ment should make available some detail to whether it be statutory or not, to carry out people who are concerned and affected. his wishes. If the committee did not do [Tuesday, 8 November, 1986.] 2149 so the Minister would be entitled to give other members of the board listed in the its members a blast. I think that is as far legislation, would have travelled extens- as the Minister needs to go. ively on the railways. They would make some journeys by rail in order to carry During his speech this evening the mem- out their inspections; but, as we all ber for Dale referred to the various ways realise, these officers must move around that trains, buses, and private transport very quickly and the very nature of their could handle the transportation of Pas- job requires them to move from place to sen'ers. But the honourable member place as quickly as possible. As a result failed to state that it all depends on the they do not get to know the run-of-the- mode of transport that is available to the mill operations; whereas those who have people who wish to be transported. if worked in these transport systems for a there is a private railway working on a number of years would be able to bring private line, with plenty of accommoda- the necessary balance and mature con- tion for the public in the districts through sideration to many of the problems that which it passes, then, of course, that rail- are involved in contacts with the general way can handle its passengers very quickly. Public-problems which would Probably not If there is a bus service which operates appreciated by those who have been in on a road set aside for buses only that be service, too, can handle a great number administrative positions for a number of of passengers. It all depends on cir- years. cumstances. Although I do not altogether agree that the legislation is necessary, I am quite If one is running a fleet of automobiles happy with the fact that the Government on a road on which no other vehicles transport travel, that fleet, too, could handle many wishes to bring all forms of thousands of passengers per hour. There- under the control of one Minister and, for fore I do not think the honourable mem- that reason, I support the Bill. However, ber's statement was relevant to the cir- I hope that amendments to make provi- cumstances. I think it was more a state- sion for the proposals I have outlined will ment of a set of circumstances that may be introduced. or may not exist at a given place. MR. GAYFER (Avon) [9.23 p.m.]: I will Those factors would depend on the avail- be even briefer with my speech than Was ability of roads and freeways; the access the member for Beeloo. It is said that to those roads and freeways: the access progress Is not a law of nature: it is an to railway facilities or, for that matter, act of man. If this act of man is in- access to car parking facilities; and the tended to help progress In general and availability of roads to enable people to give greater satisfaction to the users of move quickly to or from those facilities public transport, then I am in agreement within a certain time. Hoewever, the with the measure before us. if the out- aspects mentioned by the honourable come of this Bill will be a distinct advant- member are not very important in the age, economically or physically, to all users overall transport situation. of co-ordinated transport, then, likewise There must be co-ordination of some I am in agreement with it. However, if kind but whether it should be exactly as it means the Implementation of all of Mr. is envisaged in the Bill I am not inclined Wayne's report, which was presented in to say; I rather feel that the proposal June, then I reserve the right, at a later in the measure is not altogether neces- stage, to disagree with certain Portions of sary. However. I do a-Tree that one Min- it. ister should be in charge of all forms of I realise that Mr. Wayne's report con- transport and once that Minister lays tains only recommendations, and the Mini- down his policy the co-ordinating com- ister, in his second reading speech, said mittee should do the spade w.ork for him he has the final say on those recommenda- and carry out the overall policy as re- tions, and that those to be implemented cuired by the Government from time to will be brought before Parliament. How- time. ever, I will be most interested in seeing There is one other point. I think per- how the new council will work out. It haps the board could be extended by hay- looks as though it has great possibilities in- as members of it, representatives of but, ais I have just said, if it is to be in- the various transport unions. There are augurated only to put into operation all several of these unions and they repre- of Mr. Wayne's recommendations in his sent a number of people. While it may overall view of transport in Western Aus- be said that this board is merely of an tralia I will, at a later stage, disagree with administrative nature, the people to whom certain of those recommendations. I have referred have specialised in their work and in their dealings with people. MR. HALL (Albany) [9.25 p.m.]: My They would bring a degree of balance to few words on the Hill will deal only with the board, particularly in its considera- a consideration of the Wayne report. I tion of certain matters. think this Bill could have been delayed For instance, I doubt very much whe- for some considerable time-at least until ther the Commissioner of Railways (Mr. members had had an opportunity to dis- Wayne), or for that matter any of the cuss all the recommendations in the Wayne 2150 2150ASSEMBLY. report. Then, perhaps in the next session look into the overall picture to see whether of Parliament, the Minister could have the operations of the ports can be diversi- introduced legislation based upon all the fied. information that he had been able to gain Esperance will be looking for outlets, in from an open discussion on the report. the handling of cargo both inwards and After many months of research the com- outwards. Therefore, the Minister should mrissioner produced his report, but it is look at the proposal which has been Put rather staggering that he completely over- forward. The Commissioner of Rlailways looked research carried out many years ago is a Tasmanian and has not been in into the opening up of the south and south- Western Australia for many years, and he east Portion of our State. In this regard might not be aware of the research that I should like to refer to the Watkins re- has been undertaken. The research clearly port. On the 25th April, 1929. the Com- shows the pressure that has been applied mnonwealth Government set aside a sum in some transport matters; for instance, of £150,000 to be spent on an investigation the imposition of the charge of 40c per into the possibility of building a railway bale of wool transported to the wool sales line from Albany to link up with the at Esperance. trans-line at Karonie. The point that Mr. O'Connor: This charge applies amazes me is that the commissioner did throughout the State. not see fit to investigate the research that was carried out during this inquiry. Mr. HALL: I do not know why, because Mr. Brady: there are no parallel lines in operation. I Under this Bill he has the see no reason why the 40c should be loaded Power to do it if he so desires. onto each bale of wool. Mr. HALL: Unfortunately the commis- Mr. O'Connor: That is the permit fee. sioner did not make a recommendation along the lines I have suggested, A mnem- Mr. HALL: In my opinion, the charge is ber in another place has mooted that the diabolical: and it is devastating to de- line to which I have just referred could centralisation. For a long time we haye be diverted to link up with the trans.-line been advocating the decentralisation of at Southern Cross. thus opening industry, and I imagine the measure be- up the fore us seeks to co-ordinate the various south-eastern portion of the State. The modes of transport in the State. Why fact that $150,000 was spent by the Com- then should a charge of 40c a bale be monwealth indicates that that Govern- imposed when there is not a parallel line ment felt something along these lines in operation? Why should any decentra- should be done. lised industry have to suffer such a dis- If the article in the paper was any guide ability? as to what Mr. Wayne proposes, the idea My main point in speaking to this is to go from Midland Junction across to measure is to indicate that there is a lot Hyden; whereas if the Ein, was run to commend it, but, as the member for directly from Southern Cross to Albany it Beeloo stated, the Wayne report on tranls- would open up the whole of that south- port has been released on the eve of the eastern area, and Albany would be a introduction of the measure. In the short terminal. This would obviate, for instance, space of time available none of us have a 20,000-ton vessel having to travel an been able to digest the contents of the re- extra six or seven hours to get to Fre- port. I appreciate the investigation that mantle to load goods. has been carried out by the Government, At the moment the Eastern States ships but I cannot agree to the manner in which bypass Albany, but if Albany were estab- the report is released. The Bill should be lished as a terminal point there would be delayed in order to enable us to give more a great saving in cost and time. Goods time to its consideration. could be transported, whether by standard A great deal of research over many years gauge railway or the ordinary narrow, has gone into the openingr up of the south- gauge, to Albany which would be the ern and south-east portions of this State, terminal point. At the present time it is and £150,000 of Commonwealth money has obvious that having to use Fremantle been spent in this direction. I daresay means that thousands of pounds are that Commissioner Wayne has not 'teen wasted, irrespective of the tonnage of the the results of this investigation. We find ship, in travelling time. If that line is that cargoes are transported past the Port established, a start could be made from ofAlbany, but with the establishment oif there to feed out to the trans.-line on the a cargo terminal these cargoes could auto- standard gauge. matically be fed out to the southern end Recently I asked a question relating to south-eastern districts. Further, Esper- the establishment of a cargo terminal, but ance will be looking to the handling of the reply of the Minister was that this both inward and outward cargo. could not be put into effect. I fail to see There are many factors to be considered bow this State could afford to lose 1,000 in respect of the co-ordination of trans- bours in travelling time when cargo could port in Western Australia, and one im- be shipped from that particular port. The portant aspect is town planning. One fact Is cargoes are now shipped past that cannot align one's thoughts with this mat- port. Perhaps the commissioner could ter without taking into account the effect [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.] 2151 of town planning; and Commissioner It is the desire of many people to have Wayne is probably well aware of our views freedom of choice of road transport or rail on this subject. transport, yet the same people have pressed When Planning of transport and traffic for the exclusive use of some form of road takes Place, consideration must be given transport. It is my belief that people to noise, to buildings, and to other mat- should be given a choice to use whatever ters. This is a very important factor in form of transport they desire. We should the preparation of a report. I support not implement road transport of certain the measure before us, which has for its commodities in preference to rail tramis- purpose the achieving of some good, but 1 port, and then restrict one particular road am sure many of the people who will be transport operator. affected by it are not aware that the The railways can Play, and are playing. legislation is being introduced. I can only a very important part in the bulk trans- reiterate my remarks by emphasing that port of major commodities. It does not the Wayne report has been released very seem sensible for road transport to cart belatedly. The overall consideration of commodities, which are not perishables, for the measure should be delayed till the hundreds of miles when those commodities next session of Parliament, to enable can be transported by rail. Whether the members to give more study and considera- form of co-ordinated transport proposed in tion to the matters contained therein be- the Bill will bring about a better system fore giving their concurrence. remains to be seen, and it will be up to the Proposed transport advisory council to MR. MITCHELL (Stirling) (9.37 Pm.]: bring about an improvement. It would not be appropriate for me to allow a measure as important as this one I commend the Minister for introducing to be Passed without making some com- the Bill, and I look to some semblance of ments on behalf of those I represent, and co-ordination being brought about by the of the State generally. This measure is advisory council. I believe in the long so important and so necessary that it does run this legislation will be of benefit to not warrant a great deal of comment. I the people and to the State generally. believe in freedom of enterprise and free- dom of choice, and we have reached a MR. O'CONNOR (Mt. Lawley-Minister stage in the development of Western Aus- for Transport) [9.41 pm.]: I thank mem- tralia where the co-ordination of trans- bers for their contributions and for their port is one of the most important factors general acceptance of the measure. When to be tackled. I introduced the Bill on Wednesday last I covered most of the details in respect of The member for Balcatta said that all implementation, and the reasons for the sorts of people ha encmle before measure. I 4oh not propose to repeat the the measure was introduced, and that if remarks that I made, and I shall now con- the Minister had given consideration to the problems he should make the decisions fine myself to answering some of the himself. Well, the Minister and this Gov- questions which have been raised. ernment are making decisions to relieve The member for Balcatta made some the chaotic position of transport in West- comment regarding Mr. Wayne being the ern Australia, and this chaotic position has Royal Commissioner into transport. He been brought about by the increase in all seems to be under some misapprehension. forms of transport. because there has not been a Royal Com- I have heard criticism of the Minister missioner appointed to inquire into trans- for retaining some control over the de- port by this Government. There has been cisions that are made. We all know that a transport review, and Mr. Wayne has the Metropolitan Transport Trust is to be been seconded from his position as Com- widened under this legislation, and is to missioner of Railways to undertake that be placed under some form of ministerial review. control. We were told that last year the The next point made by the member for trust lost something like $1,200,000. The Balcatta was that the Bill contains no new Government is required to meet such losses, matter that is not already contained In therefore it is only right for the Minister the existing Transport Co-ordination Act. in ehisrge of this legislation to have some I disagree entirely, because the Bill does say in regard to the operation of these not seek to introduce any new form of ser-ic-s. transport, but to co-ordinate the transport I now want to refer to the question of system so as to help the transport require- rail transport verszus road transport. I ments of Western Australia in the future- believe that rail trsnsnort is not being This State is on the move and is expanding used to the extent that It should be used: at a rapid rate. We do not wish to see and I also agree that people should be transport stagnate while the rest of the allowed to use road transport, but when State is on the move. we -ee the roads being severely damaged In Western Australia-and this applies by hg'avv transport carting huge loads of generally throughout the world-approx- timbewr and other commodities, we agree Imnately one in every six persons is involved readily that many of these goods could be or employed in transport operations. If tranvnorted by rail. the transport system is inefficient, then 2152 2162[ASSEMBLY.) the public in one way or another must bear cerned would have been informed and the consequences either by the payment of knew what action was being taken. cash, or by putting up with an inefficient Mr. Graham: We know for certain that service. Therefore it is most important the M.T.T. was not consulted, judging by that we adopt an overall transport system what appeared in the Press. which will provide better services than Mr' O'CONNOR: What I have said is the those Provided at the moment, and which true position. Also consulted by Mr. will, if possible, be more economical. Wayne. were Sir Ragnar Garrett, the The member for Balcatta suggested that Chairman of the State Shipping Com- the director-general would be interfering mission, Mr. Hindle of the Transport Com- with the transport organisation, and he mission, and Mr. Howard. In addition, at seemed to take some exception to his Mr. Wayne's request, an article was pub- appointment. However, a few minutes lished in the newspaper-and I must later he said that the director-general thank the Press for this-asking any would have the same powers as the existing interested organisation to contact him for Commissioner of Transport. discussions. The member for Balcatta was a Minister Mr. Davies: Was that in regard to the in the previous Labor Government, and if legislation or the report? he did not like the powers which the Mr. O'CONNOR: That was in regard to Commissioner of Transport had, he the report. With regard to the legislation, should have taken action at that time to this was naturally drafted by the Crown alter those powers. The powers of the Law people. director-general will not be much different The Government has been criticised in from those of the existing Commissioner the House this session for making informa- of Transport. tion concerning certain measures available In undertaking research on this matter to the Press before members of Parliament. I notice that the member for East Perth, Comment has also been made regarding as a Minister of the Government in 1957, the Transport Department being able to introduced the Metropolitan (Perth) Pas- handle the whole of these operations. I senger Transport Trust Act. In the second feel it would be extremely difficult for that reading debate he said he thought the Bill department, under its present set-up, to do could be a start to a co-ordinated transport this. I say this because, as members are system. He seemed to indicate that he was aware, there has been a terrific expansion in favour of such a system. In the debate in transport-as well as in other ways-- this evening he went on to reveal a number in this State over the last two years. of organisations which had not been con- As far as the department is concerned sulted, and they were the M.T.T." road there has been an increase from 13,000,000 transport, the railways, taxis, and so on. to 53,000,000 ton miles operated under per- This leads me to believe that the mit in this State in two years. That is ap- honourable member did not read the re- proximately a 400 per cent, increase in two port because on page 49 a number of the years. which involved a terrific amount of top representatives of the organisations he extra work for the department. On top of mentioned are quoted. They were, as a that, the department is now responsible matter of fact, members of this commnittee for road maintenance operations and which assisted Mr. Wayne. legislation, and this has almost doubled the amount of the work the department Mr. Graham: There is no dispute on previously undertook under the old co- that. It is a question as to whether the ordinated system. Government consulted any of them in re- spect of this Bill. I1 feel it is necessary for a separate organisation to be established-not one Mr. O'CONNOR: If the honourable involved in the day-to-day operations of member will allow me to continue, I will any Particular system, but one which can answer that question, too. The members of look at the overall aspects of transport, the committee were Mr. 0. A. Shea. without having an interest in any particu- Deputy Chairman of the M.T.T., Mr. D. J. lar one. Dyson. research officer in the Department I think the member for Swan pointed of Transport, and Mr. A. E. Williams, a out that in some instances the com- special officer with the W.A.0.R. Those missioner of a department might be ex- members helped Mr. Wayne compile the tremely enthusiastic in his endeavours to report. They did, I know, report back to do the best he can in order that his de- their heads and discuss with them the de- partment shall operate as efficiently as tail in connection with this report. possible. He might do this to the dis- As a matter of fact at times during the advantage of some other department and compilation of the report. I had dis- the public generally. cussions with various members. I know. I feel that any organisation established also, that the Commissioner of Transport should be independent. The director- who is in charge of the Taxi Control general will have the time to undertake Board and also the tourist organisation, the necessary study and he will have re- gave fair and frank views in connection search officers to assist him. He will be able with taxis and tourist buses in this State. to provide a transport system not only for I feel that most of the organisations con- to-day but for the future. He will be able [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.3 215315 to ascertain the future needs of the public, not like to see the position arise wvhere he industry, farmers, and all those who will would be excluded. His membership Oil be concerned in years to come. the board might be to the advantage of The member for Balcatta mentioned the the board and the State. enthusiasm of the members of the various Whi!st I do not intend to put anyone on departments. The Government is very in- this board wvho is the owner of transport- terested in this aind wants to ensure that apart from the normal vehicle-I do not, the members are enthusiastic and that see why the membership of the board they retain their enthusiasm. We must should be restricted to such a degree that provide a better service than is available a person whose appointment would be ad- at the moment. We cannot stagnate. We vantageous to the State should be pre- must also obtain better equipment and vented from becoming a member. must submit ideas to suit that equipment. I wish to re~fer to some statements I I do not know whether the honourable made regarding the transport users' board member was being facetious when he said and its set-up during my second reading that Ministers wvere spending too much speech. I feel I should read this again time at functions instead of in their de- for the information of members. I quote partments. Obviously he does not know from page 1969 of Hansard, Wednesday, how much time they do spend in their the 2nd November, which reads as fol- departments. The only thing I can say lows:- is that surely it is up to Ministers to take The transport users' board will re- an interest in organisations-whether place the existing Transport Advisory these be sporting organisations or those Hoard constituted under the State connected with welfare, such as the spas- Transport Co-ordination Act, 1933. As tic association-as well as in the work its title implies, the new board will connected with their particular portfolios. have the prime task of representing Mention was made of the transport the users of transport. Like the users' board, and some members stated board it replaces, the new board will that there were no individual users pro- comprise five members: a chairman vided for in this Bill. However, I might and four persons appointed by the point out that the authority itself is one Governor on the nomination of the which will have a director-general to- Minister for Transport to hold office gether with various other members includ- for three years. The four persons ing the Chairman of the M.T.T., the Com- nominated by the Minister will be missioner of Railways, and others who are persons who in his opinion are cap- operating every day in transport, whether able of assessing the financial and this involves ships, trucks, or any other economic effect on the transport users type of transport. It was decided to obtain of any proposed or existing transport the assistance of all those actually involved policy and of whom two are particu- and interested in transport so we could larly versed in the transport needs of obtain a proper and efficient method of rural industries. operating the system together. I think this clearly sets out what is re- However, the transport users' board- quired as far as the transport users' board and some members have pointed this out is concerned. When members say that -is similar to the previous Transport Ad- there is no indication of the type of per- visory Board which represents both met- son who will be appointed to this board, ropolitan and country interests-people surely no-one would think we would ap- who have no direct interest in transport point a long-distance swimamer or a per- so far as its daily operations are concerned. son of that type! It will be someone Mr. Graham: It does not say that. with a. knowledge of transport. Mr. O'CONNOR: I do not intend that Earlier this evening the member for it should. Gascoyne mentioned details in connection Mr. Graham: That is the answer. with members of the present Transport Advisory Board and I gained the impres- Mr. O'CONNOR: The honourable mem- sion that he ozave general acceptance to ber said he did not think any particular the manner in which they carried out their member should be on the authority if he functions. Continuing with my quote had transport interests. I do not com- from Hansard- pletely agree with this. I have no-one in The new board will be charged with mind. the duty of considering and making Mr'. Graham: Is this public users' recommendations on any matter board to be an operators' board? affecting a transport service operat- Mr. O'CONNOR: Yes, it will be an ing in the State or touching the lack. operators' board, but I would say they or inadequacy, of a transport service. would be operators making use of public in short it will be concerned with the transport. I intend to keep the board on "quality" of service given the com- that line, to make sure it is a users' board munity by the various transport as far as possible. However, if someone ,agencies both Government and owns a. truck and that person would be a privately operated. It will be seen great advantage on this board, I would then that this board will have an [701 2154 2154[ASSEMBLY.]

important role to play in the trans- ton containers were taken from the rail Port pattern, and its creation should wagon and loaded onto a truck. All this fill a much-needed want in the Past was done, including the departure of the in so far as the general public is con- truck, within a minute. cerned. All in all the Bill represents Mr. Davies: Our regulations would not a concise and functional piece of leg- permit 30 tons. islation which should enable the Mr. O'CONNOR: Not at the moment, objectives in transport, which have but these are things we must look at. already been outlined, to be achieved. Certainly this authority can look at the From my point of view, I think the posi- matter and decide whether recommenda- tion is quite clear. I do not believe we tions should be made to the Minister. As should have people on the board who do Pointed out tonight, we should not only not thoroughly understand the require- look at what we have done, but to the ments of the general users of transport; requirements of the years ahead. Those and it will be my intention to try to en- thoughts must be included in our planning. sure that on this board we have people wvho will give a good service to the State, Mention was also made of the air service having regard to the various fields from to the north-west, and to the fact that the which they are elected. chairman of the M.T.T. would not know Another comment made by the honour- the requirements in connection with such an air service. That is quite so. and I able member was to the effect that the would expect that the director-general, in Department of Transport would not be such a case, would not discuss the opera- able to carry out its operations because tions of transport in the north-whether someone else would be doing some of the air or road-with the chairman of the research for it. I think this would be an MT.T. but that he would discuss the mat- ,advantage rather than a hindrance be- ter only with people who were interested. cause it would enable the Department of Whether it be the Administrator of the Transport to deal more efficiently with North-West, or some other such person, the day-to-day operations. Another organisa- director-general has the power to co-opt tion, such as the one we propose with a director-general and a research commit- and bring him into discussions on the tee could examine details and recommend north-west, if he so desires. necessary changes, bearing in mind that On the other hand, if the director- the commissioner for transport would also general is discussing metropolitan traffic, be on this particular authority. I do not see any reason why the chairman of the airways board should be involved, The member for Qascoyne made some or why the Chairman of the State Shippin, comment regarding the Wayne report. Commission should be involved. Those He said it gave no details of the north- people would be left out of such discus- wvest or the Qascoyne area. I would like sions, but brought in when their aspect of to assure the honourable member that transport was discussed. That is how I Mr. Wayne and his committee went into presume the Gascoyne area and through the north: the director-general will operate. and after Mr. Wayne went overseas, the I pointed out that the director-general committee again went north and through would have power to co-opt, and this some of the honourable member's area to would include, in my opinion, people such ascertain all the detail it could in connec- as the Commissioner of Police or anyone tion with the requirements and operations else the director-general might think de- in that area, not only as they effect the sirable to be present when discussing such position today, but in regard to future matters as metropolitan traffic. needs. There was comment about M.M.A. being A great amount of detail has been com- the only airways operating within the Piled and is on the file in regard to the State and that it would therefore have one requirements of the north-west, including member on the board. I left this open the electorate of the honourable member. so that if at any stage another airline The member for Gascoyfle also referred operated regular services in the State, that to the railways and claimed that they line would also have an opportunity to be were slow and that some new methods represented on the board. I think this were required. The commissioner, mem- proposition is logical and I think it will bers of the department, and employees are receive the approval of most members. continually suggesting ways and means to Both the member for Victoria Park and Improve the service. I would say that one the member for Beeloo mentioned the short of the greatest means we have of achieving supply of the Wayne report. Copies of this some sort of improvement in the service report are available and I have made them provided by the railways would be the use available to every member of Parliament of the container system which has been who has requested one. However, the re- mentioned tonight. I hope that eventually ports are fairly costly and have not been this service will be implemented to enable thrown around willy-nilly. They are avail- goods to be taken from the ship to road and able at the transport department at a price, road to rail in a minimum time. and if anyone wants a copy, he can buy it. While in England I saw the operation The member for Victoria Park also men- of a container service where 10, 20 and 30- tioned the low morale in the railways. This [Tuesday, 8 November, 1968.] 215515 is contrary to information I have received our present system of having one session from employees within the railways. Cer- of Parliament a Year, the Period could be tainly the efficiency of the railways has up to eight months. That could be a improved considerably over recent years. serious handicap to the person concerned. I Would agree with the complimentary If Parliament decides that the director- remarks about the Chairman of the M.T.T. general is to be reinstated, he should be The M.T.T. has done a very good job, as entitled to pay for the whole of the period have a number of the other departments. of suspension. Although the Governor With People like the Commissioner for may direct that this be done, I think it Railways and the Chairman of the M.T.T., should be provided for in the Act. and similar people, on the advisory com- If a railway officer is suspended and sub- mittee, I think a great contribution will be sequently appeals to the punishment made to the overall transport system. appeal board and his appeal is upheld, I have covered most of the Points men- he suffers no monetary loss. I submit the tioned by members, but if I have by any same principle should apply in this case. chance missed any, I will, if members men- Mr. GRAHAM: I think the Minister tion those points to me, endeavour to get might take notice of this clause and, if the necessary details for them. I remem- he will permit me, I will make a sugges- ber that the member for Albany made a tion to delete the word "not" in the second comment regarding town planning in con- line. In other words, the director-general, nection with transport, It is considered if he is suspended, will be entitled to his that the director-general-whoever he remuneration, unless the Governor other- might be-should be a member of the wise directs. If it is a question of some Metropolitan Region Planning Authority. serious and obvious misdemeanour, there I think a Bill from another place will pro- would not be a demur on the part of any- vide for that. one if the director-general were suspended In taking this action, the Government ;s and no payment made to him. If it were making a genuine effort to Provide the a matter which Perhaps related to his services required in this State with regard financial status, then Parliament might to the transport industry. I feel the ac- have different views from that of the ceptance of this Bill will give us the basis Government. to form an efficient transport system uin- I do not think my proposed amend- surpassed in Australia-if not throughout ment would go as far as the member for the world. We have so many different Victoria Park would like, but at the same types of transport and such a large area time there would still be discretion; it to cover that a set-up such as this will would make it a little more positive that make a great contribution to the economy a suspended Person shall be entitled to Of the Country. I have Pleasure in recom- his remuneration automatically. unless the mending the Bill. Governor for good and sufficient reasons, Question Put and Passed. determines otherwise. I think it is better Hill read a second time. that this clause should not be worded in the negative form. I would like to hear In Committee what the Minister has to say on this and, The Chairman of Committees (Mr. W. If I get the nod from him, I will proceed A. Manning) in the Chair; Mr. O'Connor with my amendment. Accordingly, I move (Minister for Transport) in charge of the an amendment- Bill. Page 4, line 2-Delete the word Clauses 1 to 5 put and passed. "not. Amendment Put and Passed. Clause 6: Appointment and removal of Director General- Clause, as amended, put and passed. Mr. DAVIES: I briefly Oppose subclause Clause 7 put and passed. (5) of clause 6. The clause states that Clause 8: Leave of absence- if the director-general is suspended under Mr. GRAHAM: This clause says that the certain circumstances, the matter shall be Minister may grant leave of absence to the brought before Parliament and, if Parlia- director-general upon such terms and ment so decides, the director-general shall conditions as to the payment of salary and be reinstated. Subclause (5) says- allowances and otherwise as the Minister (5) Unless the Governor otherwise may determine. I am wondering what the directs, the Director General is not Minister might have in mind in respect entitled to remuneration in respect of of the word 'otherwise". If leave of the period of his suspension. absence is granted-in other words the I submit that this is contrary to all con- director-general is not on duty-and he cepts of Public service as we know them. receives his salary in full, together with The director-general could be suspended allowances which may be in connection for some supposed misdemeanour. If he with travelling, or a special allowance, or is reinstated hie has becni found not guilty anything else of that nature, I can see no of the mnisdemeanour for which he was objection to this. suspended and therefore was unjustly However, the word "otherwise" almost suspended, and he should not lose his suggests that the director-general is going salary for the Period of suspension. Tinder to receive a special bonus for being away. 2156 2156[ASSEMBLY.]

There must be some reason for the in- an attempt to try to overcome any of the clusion of this word, and I ask the Min- Problems, because other members can call ister, "What is the reason?" a meeting. I mention that if two or three Mr. O'CONNOR: There is no particular members decide to call a meeting at any purpose in this, excepting that it is in time, they have the power to do this. conformity with what has been indicated However, I think the director-general in other Acts. If I remember correctly this should be given the opportunity of having is a replica of what is contained in the similar meetings with other organisations, Present Transport Co-ordination Act. A or with people whom he thinks might be minister would have to answer to the connected through special circumstances. House for any detail in connection with I hope members will not support this this, or in connection with any advantages amendment. he gave in any particular way. I do not Mr. GRAHAM: I can go Part of the way think there is anything wrong with leaving with the Minister, but I think he is using this clause as it is. and I trust members the wrong method to achieve what he is will leave the clause in its present form. seeking. I will agree that, in respect of Clause put and passed. many matters to be discussed, perhaps Clauses 9 to 13 put and passed. two, three, or even four members would Clause 14: Proceedings- be ample, because it is obvious that many of the others would have no direct in- Mr. GRAHAM: This is the point which terest. However, in such cases, surely the was raised by the member for Gascoyne. proper course would be for a subcom- It will be noted that where there is this mittee to be appointed to deal with co-called transport users' board of five specified matters in which some members members, it is provided in clause 20 that have an interest but the balance do not. three members shall constitute a quorum If the subcommittee were appointed, its for the conduct of business. Three mem- reports could be agreed to by a properly bers out of five is, at least, a majority. constituted meeting. However, in respect of the all-important council, which is the senior of the two The way the clause reads now, it means bodies, the Hill provides that there shall that at any and every meeting, including be a quorum of only three members. Three those meetings where matters of the widest members out of eight means that a vote diversity which affect everyone were could be passed by a majority of one; that discussed, only three pcrsons would be for and one mem- required. I think that is wrong and, fur- is, two members voting thermore, I think it is dangerous. For that ber against. reason, 1 intend to persist with the amend- in other words, two~ People could make ment because I consider there is a way a decision, and I think that is hardly round the matter of limited interest. In reasonable. Surely a majority ought to be addition, I consider that the full commit- present in order to constitute a quorum tee. or at least a majority, should be for the purpose of the conduct of business present to make decisions and recom- and this should not be left to an insignifi- mendations. cant number, which three out of eight would represent. Accordingly I move an Amendment put and negatived. amendment- Clause put and passed. Page '7, line 11-Delete the word Clause 15: Transport Users' Board- "three" with a view to substituting Mr. GRAHAM: It is my wish to have the word "five". the word, "users" deleted from this clause, Mr. O'CONNOR: I oppose this particular because it is completely foreign to what amendment, and the reasons why I do so is set out in the Bill. Surely it must be are several. Firstly, as has been pointed the intention of the Government that the out by some members during the debate, it users shall have a committee through would be unnecessary for a number of which they can examine certain matters members to be involved with the council where they feel the wrong thing is being on some particular forms of transport. done, or through which they can submit For instance, if there were discussions other matters on which they feel nothing in connection with the operation of trans- is being done but something should be Port in the metropolitan area, it would done. not be necessary for someone such as the As far as possible, this would ensure Chairman of the State Shipping Commris- that this committee was a committee rep- sion, or a representative of the airlines, to resenting users and not another committee be involved. In a case such as that, it may representing operators. Under the present not even be necessary for someone from terminology of the clause, there is noth- the Main Roads Department to be in- ing to prevent that happening. volved. MIv'. O'Connor: The word you are seeking This particular point has been inserted to have deleted does not come within this in order to give the director-general the clause, does it? opportunity of calling members together Mr. GRAHAM: No, I am not asking for in order to discuss any particular aspect the deletion of any word from this clause. of transport. This has not been done in I move an amendment- (Tuesday, 8 November, 1968.] 2157

Page 8, line 5-Insert after the word interest in a transport undertaking. I pre- "industries" the words-"None of such fer the clause to be left open so that a four Persons shall be financially in- person who is capable of giving a service terested in the operation of any form which will be of advantage to the State of transport service or contract relat- can be appointed. I cannot accept the ing to transport." amendment. Those words are taken from the existing Mr. DAVIES: I would accept an assur- State Transport Co-ordination Act. I ance given by the Minister, but the point is consider it to be ludicrous for people on a he wili not always be Minister for Trans- transport users' board to have a direct port. We are required to legislate to safe- interest in transport companies or trans- guard the interests of the whole com- port operations. The personnel of such a munity and the amendment is most de- board should be clients, or those who pay sirable. If I recall correctly, some seven fares and freights, or those who are cap- years ago there was consternation when able of speaking on behalf of such people. someone with considerable transport in- As I have mentioned before, perhaps the terests was appointed as a workers' repre- Trades and Labour Council would be able sentative on the Fremantle Harbour Trust. to speak with some authority on behalf of It behoves us. with this supposedly ad- transport patrons in the metropolitan vanced piece of legislation, adequately to area; the Farmers' Union could speak for protect the people in the future. those people in the country; and prob- If the Minister suggests the amendment ably a pastoralist could be appointed to is too restrictive and if he considers a man the board to represent the north-west who conducts a school bus service or who area, with some other person representing does not have a wide interest in transport other users. matters could be precluded from being ap- These appointments would be left to pointed to the board, surely he could insert the Minister, but at least the amendment a word to indicate that only a person whose would ensure that persons capable of principal source of income was derived effecting policies that would benefit trans- from transport interest could be precluded port users would be appointed to the board, from being appointed to the board. and that they were not looking after their own selfish interests, or the interests of a The person who has considerable trans- particular group of transport operators. port interests is the type of person who This is cardinal and basic to the require- should be barred from this board. No ment, and is a provision which has been criticism could be directed against the in the State Transport Co-ordination Act board if none of the members were actively as long as there has been an advisory comn- or extensively associated with the trans- mittee; and that is only proper. potindustry The Minister would be very foolish not to accept the amendment. I I hope the Committee will agree to this take this opportunity to tell him, in regard safeguard. Finally, might I suggest it to this clause, that he was not able to let would aff ord some protection to the Min- ister himself. If it were found that the us know why two of the members of this users' board consisted of one or two Per- board should need such high qualifications sons representative of transport operators. as set out at the top of page 8. These this would be completely false to the are very demanding qualifications, and one spirit and intention of the legislation, and wonders why they are necessary, because certainly to the objects of the board of in his second reading speech the Minister which they formed a part. said the board would meet not more than once a month. If we are to have board Mr. O'CONNOR: As I indicated to the members with the qualifications as out- honourable member a little earlier. I do lined in the Bill meeting once a month, not propose to support the amendment. the work they will perform will be limited. It is not my intention to give an assurance and the Government will have difficulty -it is not much use in view of the fact in finding people with such qualifications. the word is not looked upon with favour I am disappointed the Minister has in- in this Chamber-that I will not appoint dicated he will not support the amend- anyone who is a transport operator of any ment. We should do everything possible magnitude or who has a large financial interest in transport services. The point to ensure that no one can exert undue in- I make is that a farmer could have a good fluence on a board of this nature which has knowledge of the transport needs of the fairly wide powers. farming community, and he might con - Amendment put and negatived. duct a school bus service or a small trans- Clause put and passed. port service in the district. By so doing, Clauses 16 to 20 put and passed. this amendment could exclude his being appointed to the users' board. There Clause 21: Duties of Director General- could be many other People who could Mr. DAVIES: This may, or may not, be serve with advantage on a transport users' the right Place to ask the Minister some board but the amendment, if agreed to. queries. In the Wayne report it was sug- would exclude them. gested that one authority was to control I have no intention of appointing to the licensing and another was to control park- board anyone who has a large financial ing. 2158 2158[ASSEMBLY.]

These are two important recommnenda- something should be done, it is left to the tions contained in the report and, as far discretion of the director-general as to as I can see, they are the only two whether the matter should go to the ignored by the Government. If the auth- Minister. I feel that if the council de- ority is to deal with other recommenda- cides in favour of a Particular matter, it tions, why should not these be included? should automatically go to the Minister. Mr. O'CONNOR: I am sorry I did not I wonder whether the Minister wvill answer that question. I felt that the agree to strike out the 'word "and" in overall licensing of vehicles was not a line 35 together with the words, "in any job for the Transport Department, be- event, in his discretion", in the same line cause it would be necessary for that so th~at if the council wants to bring a department to establish a number of matter to the Minister it will be able to organisations, buildings, and so on, in do so. country centres to handle this aspect. This would cost a great deal of money. Mr. OCONNOR: I would rather the I felt the transport authority was not director-general brought the matter to the correct authority to handle the the Minister if the council voted in the licensing of vehicles and that is why I majority for that to be done. If the did not recommend it. The other ques- honourable member will leave this with tion which referred to parking and the me I will see whether the necessary take-over by the City Council is one amendment can be made in another place. which was put forward but not proceeded Mr. Graham: I will be happy with that with; though it does not necessarily mean undertaking from the Minister. it has been abandoned at this stage. Clause put and passed. Mr. DAVIES: I regret the Government has not seen fit to have one authority Clauses 25 and 26 put and passed. for the licensing of vehicles. Clause 27: Appropriation- The CHAIRMAN: Order! I allowed Mr. DAVIES: We are constantly charged the member to ask his question on this with watching public funds; and Parlia- clause, but I do not want a debate on it. ment-the Government in particular- Clause put and passed. has been severely criticised for its recent Clause 22 put and Passed. raising of taxes. Can the Minister tell us what the proposed expenditure will be Clause 23: Duties of Council- in any one year under this Act? Mr. DAVIES: There is no provision in this clause for the authority to take over Mr. O'CONNOR: I cannot give an the licensing of vehicles. If the recom- accurate answer, but I do not think it mendation is to be made this Is the will be excessive. It will probably clause in which it should be included. The run into $50,000. though I would not like Minister said new buildings would be re- to be held to that figure. It would de- quired, and a great deal of expenditure Pend on research. Where travelling and would be necessary for this purpose. Two that sort of thing is involved, the cost boards of inquiry have recommended that will be greater than $20,000. one authority take over the licensing of Clause Put and passed. vehicles. One has recommended that the New Clause 27- Police Department take over this work, and Mr. GRAHAM: the other that it be taken over by a special I move- authority. Page 13-Insert after clause 26 the following new clause to stand as clause In view of this it would be an excellent 27:- chance for this traffic authority to take over the licensing of vehicles. It is 27. As soon as may be after the apparent the Government does not pro- thirtieth day of June in each year, pose to move in this matter, and the the Director General, the Council present condition will exist for many and the Board shall cause to be pre- years to come. pared reports containing- Clause put and passed. (i) statements relating to the proceedings and work of the Clause 24: Duties of Board- Director General, the Coun- Mr. GRAHAM: I wonder whether the cil and the Board respec- Minister will be with me on this one. It tively. during the financial will be seen that the function proposed year then last preceding; In subelause (1) is rather an important (ii) any comments which the function to be fulfilled by the so-called Director General, the Coun- transport users' board. Subelause (2) cil and the Board think de- states- sirable to make relating to The Director-General shall, where the administration or opera- the resolution so requires, refer a tion of this Act. resolution of the Board to the Council. Such annual reports shall be laid be- I see nothing wrong with that. After the fore both Houses of Parliament not Council has deliberated on the matter later than the thirty-first day of and perhaps overwhelmingly decided that October in each year. (Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.1 252159

The West Australian discovered there Mr. BRAND: The note I have states this was no provision in the Bill for the presen- item is to meet the cost of Printing and tation of annual reports to Parliament. stationery supplied by the Government Mr. O'Connor: I am prepared to accept Printer. In previous years the cost of the amendment. printing and stationery was met from a Mr. GRAHAM: in the new clause it is composite vote uinder the control of the Provided that the annual reports shall be Government Printer but it is now intended laid before both Houses of Parliament not that each department shall meet the cost later than the 31st day of October in each of its own printing. year. Under the existing Act it is provided Vote put and passed. that these annual reports shall be laid be- Votes: Governor's Establishment, $62,100; fore Parliament in the month of October in Executive Council, $10--put and passed. each Year. If these annual reports are ready in September, then Parliament Vote: London Agency, $242,000- should have the advantage of receiving Item No. 6: Motor Car Expenses, $9,152- them before the 31st October. Mr. JAMIESON: I think there is only It has been the practice of Parliament in one motorcar associated with this itemn and recent years to conclude the sessions at expenditure last year was some $4,000 over approximately the end of November. 11 this year's estimate, I would like the during this session, Parliament were to rise Treasurer to explain this. on the 25th November, it would not have Mr. BRAND: My note says that last the report of the Transport Department before it, because under the existing Act year additional expense was incurred in the report must be tabled before the end hiring cars while the official car, purchased of November. If this report is tabled after in August, 1965, was out of commission fol- Parliament has gone into recess it will not lowing an accident involving considerable be of much use to members, repairs. Because of the high charges now applying to repair work and servicing of Annual reports should be presented to cars, it has Parliament before the Annual Estimates are been decided to adopt the considered. I say that all Government de- policy of replacing the Agent-General's car partment and instrumentalities should be annually while still under service guaran- able to complete their reports by June or tee. The change-over to this policy has July for presentation to Parliament. If involved the purchase of two new cars in anybody it to be inconvenienced by the the one financial year. This year's pro- early tabling of annual reports, it should vision covers the purchase of only one be the Government departments. Mem- new car. bers of Parliament should have the reports The item covers total cost of providing available during the discussion on the and running a car for the Agent-General Estimates. and includes chauffeur's wages and ex- Mr. O'CONNOR: I am agreeable to this penses, petrol and oil, repairs and replace- amendment. I did have some discussion ments, garage fees, and insurance. with Mr. Wayne on this point, but we were Vote put and passed. undecided on the Inclusion or the exclusion Votes: Public Service Commnissioner, of this provision. $178,000; Government Motor Car Service, New clause put and passed. $106,600; Audit, $271,300; Compassionate Schedule put and passed. Allowances, $630; Government Stores, Title put and passed. $513,200-put and passed. Bill reported with amendments. Vote: Taxation, $490,000- Item. No. 1: Amount Payable to Com- ANNUAL ESTIMATES, 1966-67 monwealth Government for Collect ion of In Committee of Supply Taxes, $490,000- Resumed from the 27th October, the Mr. GRAHAM: This seems to be a con- Chairman of Committees (Mr. W . A. siderable sum so I wonder if the Treasurer MVanning) in the Chair. could supply a few particulars with regard Vote: Treasury, $493,000- to this item. Mr. JAMIESON: It looks as though The CHAIRMAN: Progress was reported the increase in expenditure here is on a after the vote had been partly considered. commission basis. Last year it appears Item No. 6: Printing and Stationery- to have been rather underestimated. Government Printer, $55,000- Mr. BRAND: The only information I Mr. JAMIESON: I desire to make a few have is that the expected increase In ex- comments on this item, and would like the penditure will be $9,934. The higher Treasurer to tell us what has been going recoup to be met in 1966-67? includes pro- on in respect of the finances of the Gov- vision for substantial salary increases ernment Printer. I notice that further granted by the Public Service Arbitrator on in the Estimates there is a reallocation ofl the 16th June, 1906. of the financial responsibility for stationery This amount is provided in the Estimates -and general printing. There seems to have to cover the cost of collecting land tax, been a change of policy. metropolitan region Improvement tax, and 2160 2160[ASSEMBLY.] vermin rate, which taxes are not included Mr. Lewvis: You are not with It! in the Commonwealth uniform taxation Mr. BRAND: I think this query should scheme. The amount is payable to the be directed to the Minister in charge of Taxation Department for its services in the Art Gallery. The information I have collecting the tax on our behalf. That is that the increase of $10,700 Is caused is the information I have, but I am willing by the continual expansion of the acti- to get the further information required by vities of the Art Gallery, and it is in- members if they so desire. tended to meet the inescapable costs with Vote put and passed. which the board is faced. Under legisla- Vote: Superannuation Board, $59,340- tion passed in 1959, funds are now pro- put and passed. vided for the operation of the Art Gal- Vote: Government Printer, $633,700- lary as a separate entity from the Museum, with which it was previously closely con- Item: Less Rebates front other Depart- nected. The amount provides for all sal- ments, $1,100,000- aries and incidental costs, and also the Mr. HAWKE: This is a new -temn which purchase of works of art and the con- has been introduced into the Government duct of exhibitions. Might I add that printing establishment. The rebates are I am very grateful that I do not have the very substantial. Presumably they are for responsibility of deciding whether or not work done by the Government printing some of the purchases are good, bad, or in- establishment. Could the Treasurer give different. the Committeec some information as to Item 49: Federation of Building Societies why this new system has been introduced in Western Australia, $4 00- and what benefits are likely to arise from it? Mr. JAMIESON: Apart from this item, there is also an item which covers the Mr. BRAND: Actually the vote this year Western Australian Permanent Building was a composite vote. The Government's Societies' Association. I was wondering departmental wvork is to be met by the whether some of these organisations could department itself. This amounts to much be amalgamated in order to cover their the same thing as the departments being activities. From the titles of these asso- responsible for their own printing. There ciations I would say they have much in is a better chance of co-ordination and common and should be encouraged not to there will be no overlapping if the matter draw on the Treasury any more than is is co-ordinated by the Treasury. absolutely necessary. Vote put and passed. Mr. BRAND: This item provides for a Vote: Miscellaneous Services. fund to assist the federation in expenses $17,581,400- for delegates to the Australian Council of Items: Boy Scouts' Association; Boy's Building societies in the Eastern States. Brigade- The need for Government assistance is re- Mr. MAY: There are two items for viewed annually. The activities of the which there is no vote. federation include the collation of in- The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honour- formation of developments in the Eastern able member cannot refer to items for States in regard to housing and building which there is no vote. societies generally. The sum involved Mr. BRAND: If You will permit me. Mr. is only $400 and is not a great amount, Chairman, I would inform the honourable but I will make inquiries as to whether some member that youth associations now come saving could be made by perhaps reducing under the general control of the new Youth the representation in the east. Council and a vote has been made to the Itemt No. 61: National Safety Council, Youth Council and not directly to the indi- $22,500- vidual organisations of youth. Mr. HA WEE: I would have thought this Item No. 20: Paraplegic Association of wras an organisation whose work would be W.A., $3,400- expanding and therefore one wvhich would Mr. HAWKE: Would the Treasurer be requiring and deserving of more fin- please give us an explanation as to why ancial assistance from the Government, the amount this year for this item is about instead of less. Last year the vote was $1,500 less than the amount expended last $28,000. and the actual expenditure was year? 826,569. The estimate for the current financial year is $22,600, which represents Mr. BRAND: The reduction is as a re- a reduction over last year's actual expendi- sult of the non-recurrence in 1966-67 of a special grant paid last year towards the ture of almost $4,000. Would the Treas- cost of sending Western Australian repre- urer please give us some explanation of sentatives to the Commonwealth Para- this? plegic Games in Jamaica, in August, 1966. Mr. BRAND: The actual decrease is 83,969. The Government agreed to pro- Item No. 38: Art Gallery o1 Western Aus- vide a grant of $4,000, per annumn to the tralia, Sf 01,500- water safety division of the council dur- Mr. KELLY: floes this large estimate In- its first two years of operation. As cover the abstract rubbish which we saw this period has now expired, the provision in the Press some time ago? in the current year's estimate has been [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.J 2161

reduced. The expenditure in 1965-66 was fund. A meeting of the Commonwealth less than the estimate because of a con- and State representatives in 1962 decided tribution of $1,569 which was required to to set up machinery for the eradication of meet the operating deficiency of the the sirex wasp. Funds were to be provided family driving education scheme. The on the following basis: The Common- maximum Permissible grant of $3,000 for wealth, $200,000, and the States, in propor- this activity was provided for in the pre- tion to the forest areas, $114,000, of which vious financial year's vote. Western Australia was to provide the amount which is listed on the Estimates, The annual grants are provided to sist the council with operating costs as-of which is $18,840. various activities conducted for the well- Subsequent meetings authorised the being of the community. These are as raising of additional funds on a similar follows:- basis, and the amount Provided in this 1. Home Accident Division-$9,000: item represents the State's fifth contribu- The division endeavours to pro- tion to this work. mote a greater awareness of home Mr. HOVELS,: If I might elaborate on hazards and the recognition of this, the sirex wasp in Victoria and home accidents as a major com- Tasmania has created havoc in the open munity problem. It also encour- forests of those States. Victoria has es- ages, initiates, organises and tablished a research station in connection develops home safety activities. with the matter, and I Periodically visit The division is giving special that station and keep myself informed of attention to the prevention of the developments. The funds go to assist- burns and accidental poisoning ing research, and whilst we have not the of children and there are indica- -sirex wasp in Western Australia, our con- tions that the activities of the tribution is an endeavour, first of all, to division have contributed to a prevent it from coming here, and also to significant reduction in admis- assist in the research in other States. We sions for accidental poisoning to naturally benefit from the research other the children's hospital. States undertake. 2. Industrial Safety Division- £12,000: In 1961 and 1962 the Rt No. 65:, Physiotherapists'Registra- Government contributed $10,000 tion Board, $14,300- towards initial establishment costs Mr. GRAHAM: The Government is mak- of the division on a dollar for ing substantial contributions to the Physic- dollar basis with private dona- therapists' Registration Board. I have tions. nostalgic memories of an old pet of mine 3. Family Driving Education Scheme -the Painters' Registration. Board. The -$3,000. master Painters are entirely responsible for Itemt No. 62: National Sirex Fund, the financing of their board. I was under $18,840- the impression that all registration boards Mr. JAMIESON: I take it this is the financed their own operations. I would like fund set up by mutual arrangement be- to know what the physiotherapists have tween the States, but what benefit are we that Painters have not, and what is the getting out of it? Is there any evidence formula required in order to be permitted of the sirex wvasp in this day and age? I to j.oin the charmed circle. Perhaps the know that during the regime of the Treasurer can enlighten me. McLarty-Watts Government it caused Mr. BRAND: I do not think I can en- many long debates in this Chamber. How- lighten the member for Halcatta; I will ever, if this proportion is only a small pro- need to have notice of the question. The portion of the national fund, it might not grant to the board has been decreased be important; but if we are paying for because the bank balance held by the something we are not getting, the amount bzcard will be utilized to Partly finance should be reviewed. I do not know if there transactions for 1966-67. During 1965-66, is any infestation in any other State, but I savings on expenditure were achieved due doubt if there is any in this State. to non-appointment of staff and this re- Mr. BRAND: Clearly the problem of the sulted in a build-up of funds held by the sirex wasp exists in the Eastern States, board. Evidently, if organisations have although I do not think it does to any any money they are expected to finance great extent. The Minister for Forests their own operations. I have no informa- might be able to tell us something about tion why this board is being Paid and the that. Howvever, I believe our contribution Painters' Registration Board is not being is very worth while especially as the Com- subsidised. I presume this was provided monwealth is contributing. Each State for when the legislation went through the makes a contribution in order that the House. necessary security is provided to keep the item No. 6?: Roy/al Mint-Additional wasp out. Grant, $605,000- Mr. Toms: Have you any idea of the Mr. KELLY: I notice that in 1965-66 actual costs? the amount Provided for the Royal Mint Mr. BRAND: I will read the notes I have was excessively high, and for the Year as to the amount of money involved in the 1966-67 there has been an increase of 2162 2182ASSEMBLY.]

$121,000. Has the Treasurer any comments tinue for some years--probably as long as in this connection? we are producing gold. Mr. JAMIESON: It will be recalled that Regarding the treatment of coins which a few years ago it was thought that the are now being taken out of circulation,. Mint was going out of business. I was for- this is also a matter for decisions to be tunate enough to visit the Mint recently made in the future. I understand the and it is being extended and a lot of Commonwealth will soon be letting con- .scientific plant is being installed. It tracts for the treatment of silver coins would appear that the place is intended to which, in some cases, I believe are actually have a long future as a Royal Mint or a worth more for the silver than in actual metal-refining centre. Indeed, the Mint currency. I believe this applies to the 2s. seems to be getting a lot of contract work piece. The Commonwealth will let a con- for the melting down of silver coin brought tract for the melting down of silver coins from the Eastern States--by the trainload, so that the silver and other minerals can I believe. be extracted. I understand that originally there was We meet all the costs of the Mint, al- a complete tie-up with the British Gov- though it is a branch of the Royal Mint, ernment, and employees worked under Item No. 72: Swan River Conservation conditions applying to Imperial civil ser- vants. The Mint appears to be a concern Board, $13,407- which the State owns, but does not own. Mr. DAVIES: Although it is very late If money is to be allocated to the Mint I think there is need on this item to say we need some clear information as to a few words of praise with regard to the where we. as a Crown colony-as I might Swan River Conservation Board, and par- call it-stand in connection with the con- ticularly in regard to Mr. Bond, for the cern. Do we own it in our free right, or work done in preserving the river. On two is it somebody else's property lent to us so occasions recently, I had the opportunity that we can make appropriations to main- of travelling both down and up the river, tain it and keep it operating? It seems and I was agreeably surprised at the work that the Mint is one of those establish- done. ments which grew as a result of the neces- I take a great pride in the river my- sity for a gold-refining centre to be estab- self. I regret to see that the vote for this lished for the growing goidmining industry year is practically the same as last year, about the turn of the century. and has possibly been accepted as a stan- In view of the considerable expansion , I dard figure. There is a small increase of think the Treasurer could probably give us $843 which would probably only take into a great deal of information regarding the account increases in salaries to the staff. future of the Mint, and the other matters This means that only the same amount I have just raised. of money will be available to accomplish the tremendous amount of work which Mr. BRAND: The increased provision is needs to be done. to meet the cost of salaries and wages, and increased Costs. The Mint is operat- Mr. Bond leads a very enthusiastic team ing at maximum capacity in the refining but, as was explained to us the other day, of replaced silver coins. This was referred the work which can be done is very limited to by the member for Heeloo, although I indeed. However, Mr. Bond feels that full do not think the coins are brought from value is received for the money that is the Eastern States in trainloads. The ad- expended. The Premier might be able to ditional grant to the Mint is $605,000 and tell us whether any consideration has been the increased provision is to meet the cost given for increasing the vote for the Swan of salary and wage variations. Under the River Conservation Board. I think we all Royal Mint Act, the State annually finds take pride in the Swan River. In fact, $50,000 to meet the expenditure of the the other day I heard the Minister for Mint. The excess expenditure for the year Works say that if a previous Government is provided under this item. The Mint's had not set up the board, he was quite two main functions are smelting gold re- certain the present Government would ceived from producers and minting of have set it up. It is a pity that, when so coins under contract from the Common- much can be done relatively cheaply, the wealth Government. All receipts are vote remains about the same. taken to revenue and this year's receipts Mr. BRAND: There is a slight increase are estimated at $660,000. of $843 in this vote. The additional pro- I would like to say further that whilst vision is for increased administration costs. the Commonwealth does let contracts for mainly due to increments and salaries. the minting of the new coinage, I have no This item provides for Government con- doubt that as the Canberra Mint develops tributions towards the operating expenses and is expanded, all the minting of coins of the Swan River Conservation Board, will be done in Canberra. Our Mint, and which was established under legislation the one in Melbourne-if It is still oper- passed in 1958. The Act provides that ating as a mint-will find there is no work two-thirds of the requirements of the in this respect. However, gold will still operations of the board are to be financed be refined and I think this might con- by the Government and one-third by local [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.1 2163 authorities. The purpose of the board is almost intact from the first days is was wvell known to members. constructed. The troopers' roams, the stalls I can only say that, having regard to all used by the horses, the original pulleys for the other demands upon the Government, pulling up the hay and the food, and the as far as the two-thirds share is con- original kitchen are almost intact. cerned, the Goverfnent would make event The gaol is a rather large building and endeavour to do as much work as possible It is divided into two sections by a particu- each year in order to keep up the momen- larly high wall. On one side there is an turn and the improvement which is evi- alleyway leading to it and portion of this dent right through this area to Maylands. building could be used and altered to make a suitable lockup for police requirements. Item No. 7.3: Theatre and Ballet Organ- However, by far the larger part of the isation, $20,000- building could be blocked off and made Mr. MAY: Last year there was no vote accessible to another alleyway which runs at all for this item but the expenditure alongside the Present courthouse. I am was $6,000. This year the estimate shows suggesting that this part of the building an increase of $14,000 on top of that. I would be a tourist attraction. It is an do not want to be critical of the organisa- amazing thing that at the present time tions, but I would like to bear from the approximately three-quarters of the build- Treasurer what sort of stories were put up ing is closed. in order to receive such a big increase. Several people have called on the ser- Mr. BRAND: The expenditure from this geant of police at York and asked if they item in the Year 1965-66 embraced grants might have a look at the old gaol. Many to the following organisations- people are interested in the old gaol. Be- cause, at any time, the Police Department National Theatre ... 3.000 may bring forward plans for the building W.A. Ballet Co. .... 1,500 of a new lockup which may entail some Hole in the Wall Theatre 1,000 unnecessary alteration to the building, I The Patch Theatre .... 500 ask the Premier if he could possibly ap- proach the Tourist Development Authority Total $6,000 with a view to investigating the possibili- ties of what might be done with this building in order both to preserve all that These grants were made with a view to is historic and maintain the tradition that assisting the organisations concerned to has been built up by the gaol. meet the expenditure incurred in thre staging of theatre and ballet productions. I realise that this comment may sound It is intended to continue grants of this a little silly but if one looks through the nature as a means of developing the old files aend sees the number of shackles. theatre and ballet in this State: and, to and similar items, which were requisitioned this end, an increase of $14,000 has been for that building at times, I think there is allowed in the vote for 1966-67. a lot to commtend the preservation of this building as a future tourist attraction. The actual sums to be granted this year to the individual organisations have yet to Mr. RUSHTON: I would like to com- be determined and will depend on the con- ment on item 74 with respect to one or clusions reached after an analysis of the two small items which come under this requests made by the various bodies. vote. In the past, big items have been ap- proved in my electorate in various ways. Item No. 74: Tourist Development and on this occasion I would like to men- Authority, $296,400- tion the matter of a swimming pool. The Mr- GAYF'ER: Under this heading. I cost of this would not be the usual amount would like to make a Plea to the Premier, pertaining to the cost of a swimming pool, in his capacity as Minister for Tourists, because the cost would come down to and that is: could the Tourist Development $1,000 or $2,000. I would also like to men- Authority have a look at the situation tion the matter of development along the which has arisen in York? Canning River in relation to the creation Recently I asked certain questions in of a park, which would become a play- this House of the Minister for Police who ground for city People and also for tourists informed me that the gaol at York was no from other States, from the country, and longer required as a gaol and was, in fact. in general. being closed down. He informed me that I am aware that there seems to be a a lock-up was to be built within the walls; tendency-and one which I support-to that the prisoners would be retained develop large areas in order to bring a briefly, and then transferred to Northam.there,' maximum result to a great number of people. However, the item which I men- Mr. Hawke: That IS lovely! tioned, and for which I seek assistance at Mr. Brand: The residents of Northam some future time, is the Roleystone swim- will love that! ming pool. This is in a vent pleasant set- Mr. GAYPER: This gaol has a rather ting. Borne amenities are needed and the historical value. It is right in the main shire has done a great deal to make this street of York and the first Part of it was swimming pool attractive. However, a little built in 1837. The building, in itself, is help would be most appreciated. 2164 21641[ASSEMBLY.)

There is another endeavour in the Kelm- Mr. BRAND: The Western Australian scott area of the Canning River to develop Division of the United Nations Organisa- something of a Ferntree Gulley, such as tion has assumed administrative manage- exists in Victoria. As I mentioned earlier, ment of the Freedom from Hunger Cam- this becomes a playground for the city paign, and this amount represents the people who go into the bills at the week- Government's contribution of $2,000 to- end. The development of this area might wards administrative costs and office not cost the Tourist Development Authority accommodation. more than $5,000 or $5,000. A five-year world campaign against hun- 1 realise this is quite a minor item, but ger was undertaken by the 'United Nations it is significant in relation to the activities Organisation in 1963. Government support of local shires. Therefore, I ask the of this programme is as follows:- Premier whether the time has come when Special grants towards appeal-- some of these smaller items may be ac- (a) Grant of $6,000 towards the ceptable as worthy of receiving attention? first appeal held in 1963. Mr. BRAND: Firstly, I would like to (b) Grant of $8,000 towards the deal with the points raised by the member second appeal in July, 1953. for Dale. Of course, the finance for The Government provided the services of swimming pools is not provided by the an administrative officer for the first two Tourist Development Authority, nor has years of the campaign. At a later stage that matter anything to do with this vote. the Government agreed to provide $2,000 The vote referred to now is that which per annum towards the administration provides the general expenses for the offi- costs and office accommodation. These cers in this and in the other States. There grants commenced in 1963-84 and are sub- is an allocation of $200,000 to meet some of ject to review after the 30th June, 1958. the capital works carried out by the Tourist Evidently we took on an annual commit- Development Authority. I suggest this ment rather than just the payment of a matter could be discussed with the Chair- grant towards the appeal. Maybe, in the man of the Tourist Development Authority next appeal, we will make some rant to 'with a view to its examining some of these the appeal as well as meeting the adminis- matters to which the honourable member trative costs. has referred. The Tourist Development Authority is Item No. 76: University of Western not responsible for developing tourist Australia-Addtion Grant, $1,873,291- attractions for local people within a par- Mr. JAMIESON: As will be seen, this ticular district. Its aim is to provide represents an additional grant to the attractions for tourists outside of that dis- University of Western Australia. This Is trict, outside of Western Australia, and. always an expensive item because the in fact, from overseas countries. In re- University is always doing something. ferring to the York gaol it seems to me that Nevertheless, sometimes its actions and the Tourist Development Authority Is a, activities warrant criticism when it appears little partial to gaols. We have renovated to be committing excesses, especially when the gaols at Cue and Toadyay, and it is the University is receiving such large grants evident the member for Avon seems to from the State. To that extent I asked the think there is a little bit of delay with the Treasurer a few questions concerning work to be done on the gaol at York. Currie Hall on Wednesday last, and he Mr. Gayfer: I would not say that, but pointed out to rme that the conduct of were the others erected as early as 1894? Currie Hall is the University's responsibility and that my question should be directed Mr. ]BRAND: if there is any tourist to the Vice Chancellor. That does not value in it, I suggest to the honourable cover the position effectively, because member that he discuss the matter with naturally it is not his direct responsibility. Mr. Miller to see what the Tourist Develop- but in regard to the matters on which I1 ment Authority can do about it. asked questions there is a big financial call. Item No. 75: United Nations Association I asked the Premier- of Australia-Freedo-m from Hunger Cam- Has the Government any plans to paign, $2,000- subsidise students who are able to Mr. HAWKE: Further up this page un- prove hardship in meeting the new der item 50 there is an amount of $10,000 tar!iff? shown to have been expended during 1965- If not, has the Government exam- 66 on the Freedom from Hunger Campaign. ined the possibility of extending study The vote for this item was also the same loans repayable over a. period after the amount. I wonder why there has been completion of study at the University? such a tremendous reduction In the vote for the current financial year. From what and the answer to each of those questions I have been able to learn and read, It seems was "No." clear that the need in this field is increas- This item represents a large amount, ing rather than decreasing and I1 would and in view of the University Senate appreciate If the Treasurer could explain throwing large sums of money around, why the amount voted under this heading some attention should be given to the for this financial year is $8,000 less than the problems of some of the students who live amount expended last financial year. in establishments such as Currie Hall, be- [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.J 216516 cause many of those students are from the very substantial salary, and a new house country and are completing their courses in was built for him after pulling this old the cheapest way possible. In fact, many one down. I continue to Quote- of them have to take part-time jobs in Yesterday Mr Payne, a physics order to complete their courses, because honours student, and third year law they are unable to do so-on the scholar- student Kevin Edwards, said that ships alone. women students in the recently-built I would like the Treasurer to comment on St. Katherine's College paid only about this position, because he said the Govern- $14 a week. muent had not examined any possibility of Scholarships will help many stu- extending study loans, but I think it should dents through the new Currie Hall. be done. Further, at present the Govern- But the maximum Commonwealth ment has no plans to subsidise students scholarship, available to only 20 per who are proved to be suffering from hard- cent, of students, is only $16.38 per ship; but many students deserve sponsor- week. ship and should be assisted. An article "It seems ludicrous that this hail, which was Published in the Weekend News built with taxpayers money will pro- dated the 29th October, 1966, reads as vide an economic barrier to those follows- wishing to enter it simply because of The basis of the students' com- the pretentious plan of running it," plaints is a 30 per cent, rise in tariff s said Payne. to take place when students move into the new quarters next year. There is a lot of justice In the criticism that has been levelled in that article. I For the past 20 years Currie Hall- would like to see the Government take a built in 1943 as "temporary" U.S. stand on this issue to try to assist some Navy barracks, and which was the of these worthy and needy people. Most university hostel run by students un- metropolitan University students are able til it was taken over in 1960 by the to find some way to get through their administration-has run on a bare- courses because, in the main, they are costs basis. assisted by their families; but the students It has been a home for students in Currie Hall need further assistance, eking their way through on scholar- because most of them are from Albany, ships and others working their way Bunbury, or some other country centre, through uni. A poor-but-proud and they are obliged to live in the city place which has been traditionally to attend the University courses. As a re- non-conformist and independent-- sult they are just eking out an existence rather inclined to make rude ges- whilst completing their courses in the best tires at the wealthier church colleges way possible, and if there is anything that in "'University row". will turn a person's political thinking in "Now they're trying to turn us into the wrong direction it is following a way one of the flash colleges with spit-and- of life such as this. polish upbringing" said Gordon Payne. We should be able to treat these students "Theyre trying to force us into the better than at present by providing some role of compliant schoolboys." form of subsidy, if the University is find- Recently students boycotted an end ing it necessary to charge such high fees, of term dinner because the head of particularly for people attending a basic Currie Hall Dr Robin Gray insisted type of college established for poorer that they should wear formal dress-- students. I hope the Treasurer will coats and ties. Only 16 out of 95 stu- approach the University authorities to see dents turned up. whether something cannot be done to give these people special consideration. Here I would point out that many of them may not have had ties, because there No doubt the University authorities will are quite a few of them living on fairly say that they are prepared to do this if close margins. The article continues-- the Treasurer provides the money. Some- thing should be done for students who are This year the tariff was $13.50. Next capable and hard working to help carry year it will be $17.50, and the stu- them through their courses in Currie Hall. dents complain that this is excessive. Some have gone through the University by They say that they and the taxpayers mortgaging the first five years of their will be footing the bill for a lot of salary, and if the Government cannot find unnecessary expenditure. the funds to subsidise such students then As an example they cite the master's such a mortgage scheme might be worth residence. Four years ago a cottage considering. was built at a cost of $6000. Now this Mr. BRAND: will be pulled down, they I will pass these remarks say, and a on to the University authorities. I1 would new one costing $20,000 will be erected like to think that hard-working and for Gray (salary $9600 a year, students efficient students who are suffering hard- claim). ship are given some assistance either by It appears that rent-free acconmmoda- the University or by the State. This has tion is being provided for a person on a been done in more recent years. 2166 2168[ASSEMBLY,]

Item No. 81: Western Australian Per- the Government has given the maximum manent Building Societies Association, amount it can afford having regard to its $400- other obligations. The Y.M.C.A. has done Mr. JAMIESON: If the Treasurer looks very well out of the Government. It has at his notes he will probably find they will been treated most generously in various be along the same lines as they were for districts. Naturally local members will try Building Societies. to get all the assistance they can for their the Federal own district. Speaking generally, this Item No. 83: Youth Council of W~.A., organisation fares quite well. $71,290- The increase of $51,200 provides for a Mr. DAVIE~S: Earlier I asked a question full Year's education for a full-time staff concerning the operations of the Youth and covers the cost of administration and Council of W.A. I am a little concerned leadership training. Provision is also made that the council has been a bit slow to get for operating grants to various youth off the ground. it made a survey of the organisations. In 1964 legislation was requirements of youth clubs in the metro- enacted to set Up a youth council to en- politan area and led them to believe they courage and develop organised youth would get support fairly promptly. But this activities. The council has been established has not been the case with the Southern and has reported to the Minister for Edu- Districts Y.M.C.A. with which I am con- cation, setting out a comprehensive cerned. Although this Y.M.C.A. has scheme after a complete survey. operated for several years and has spent a lot of money on buildings and equip- The estimate of $71.200 for the council's ment, it is not big enough to cope with the activities for the year 1966-67 has been people who wish to use the Centre. It is made up of administrative costs, $16,000; finding it increasingly difficult to cater for leadership training, $4,000; operating the high schools' section. because it has grants to various youth organisations, insufficient space at its disposal. We hoped $84,700; making a total of $104,700-less the Youth Council would make a grant the G.L.F. Youth Centre's pilot building available, but it has not done so. The project which cost $20,000. That left council seems to be spending large $84,700, which, less funds in hand at the amounts of its money on a pilot scheme 30th June, 1966, of $13,500. left a total of operating in the old fire station in Eighth $71,200. Avenue, Maylands. Mr. DAVIES: I am shocked to learn that The council should help other youth the Youth Council had $13,500 on hand clubs throughout the district before trying at the 30th June, 1966. There would have to find the perfect youth club. Some of been no difficulty in using those funds in them are crying out for assistance. On the other establishments than the Y.M.C.A. I 4th August I asked what funds had been am niot complaining about the assistance allocated for the current Year, and the Minister for Education told me the that has been given to the Y.M.C.A., but amount was $91,200. I find the estimate is Youth centres could have made good use $71,200. There may be $20,000 hidden away of the money in hand. somewhere, or possibly this is a misprint4 The youth Centre with which I am inter- I would be very disappointed if the amount ested has been built at a cost of $18,500. were only $71,200 and not $91,200. C an the plus the cost of equipment, and it is free Treasurer tell me when the Youth of debt. The establishment has been Council will hand over some of this money achieved by public subscription and hard to clubs which need additional space and work by public-minded people, including equipment to cater for high school myself. It is able to cater for high school children who, I understand, need help students. I suggest that the Youth Council from these youth clubs? could have looked into other channels Mr. TOMS: The most progressive shire where the money on hand could have been council in the metropolitan area-the used. Bayswater shire Council-was addressed Mr. BRAND: It has been doing that. by representatives of the newly formed There are many centres other than the one Youth Council to give the councillors an mentioned by the honourable member idea of the work being done. We should which are in need of assistance, but the not be too Critical of this new body. Government has not sufficient money to Mr. Brand: Hear, hear! satisfy all the needs. Mr. TOMS: It has hardly got its feet off Mr. DAVIES: The fact remains there the ground, and we cannot expect it to was $13,500 on hand which could have been rush into things willy-nilly. The vote and put to very good use. Reference has been the expenditure last year were $20,000. The made to the training of youth leaders. vote has been increased by $51,200. Can This training is conducted over a period of the Treasurer give us any indication of about 12 months, and after the completion the Position? of training these leaders could be used very Mr. BRAND: I go along with the mem- effectively to further the work of youth ber for Bayswater when he says we should clubs. I cannot appreciate what has not be too critical of this organisation. It happened to the vote of $20,000 last year. is now getting under way. It has faced and I will examine the figures which have many problems in getting established and been mentioned by the Treasurer. (Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.1 216726

Item No. 87: Eastern Goldfields Trans- Item No. 95: Rail Freight-Rebate on port Board-Assistance, $25,000- Flour, $56,000- Mr. MOIR: There is an increase of Mr. MAY: I would like to deal with $19,056 in the estimate for this year. Can these two items together. In the second the Treasurer tell me what this is intended item there is an increase of $5,452. Re- to cover? cently I tried to obtain a freight sub- Mr. BRAND: Dealing with the increase sidy on the cartage of coal, but my efforts of $19,056 the upper limit of Government were unsuccessful. Instead of granting a assistance is $7,000, and in the absence of subsidy, the department added an extra advance information of the amount to $20 a ton to the freight on coal carted which the board will be entitled it is from Collie to Bunbury. The coal industry Prudent to make provision for the max- is deserving of assistance, and I am imum subsidy. An amount of $18,000 is wondering whether the Treasurer can do provided to meet the Government conribu- something in this regard. tion towards the cost of new buses. The coal industry should be nursed, and Since 1951 the Government has assisted one method of nursing it is to grant some the Eastern Goldfields Transport Board freight subsidy on rail freights. with the operation of a transport system Mr. BRAND: I have no information on for the goldfields people. The Government the subsidy on the cartage of coal. The provided the buses for operating the first item deals with the subsidy on the service and has agreed to meet half the cartage on manganese. This is a subsidy losses up to a maximum subsidy of $7,000, which has been established over many on the conditions that the fares be main- years. We have looked very closely into tained at rates comparable with those this, and feel these concession rates should charged in the metropolitan area; that be reviewed. However, the low freight on the balance of the loss be met by the local manganese is such that we are entitled authorities; and that arrangements for to maintain the flow to Geraldton in the the Government subsidy are to be reviewed main. The other concessions refer to for the current year. gypsum, iron Ore, manganese, felspar, Item No. 93: Pertk-Carilla Omnibus cyanide, and clothing ex country f actories. Service, $700- The other subsidy referred to in Item Mr. HAWKE: This is a peculiar item to No. 95 amounts to $56,000, and there is find a place in these Estimates. Could the an increase of $5,452. The increase Is in Treasurer indicate the justification for anticipation of an increase in tonnage of this item? export flour for 1966-67. This item provides for a rebate on Mr. B3RAND: An amount of $700 Is freight where wheat is consigned to a involved. This item provides for a subsidy flour mill for conversion to iflour- and the to the operator of the Perth-Carilla flour is then sent to a port for export. omnibus service, to ensure a continuation The rebate Is equal to 50 per cenit. of the of this service. Prior to the subsidy being freight on flour from the mill to the port. granted, the operator received the use of It is provided to enable local flour millers a bus from the M.T.T. free of charge, and to compete with their counterparts in the had major maintenance work undertaken Eastern States where a similar type by the trust at no charge. Even with this of assistance he was unable to continue the concession is available. service from the 31st December, 1963. AS Mr. MAY: It seems strange to me that a result, a subsidy of $700 per year was the flour industry is subsidised. Some granted to keep him operating and so consideration should be given to a subsidy maintain the service. At the current level for freight on coal. I think the coal- of patronage It is estimated that the M.T.T. mining industry is just as important as is would incur a loss of $2,730 if it was re- the flour industry. The farmer has had quired to provide the service itself. a good run for a number of years; and I Mr. JAMIESON: It would appear that cannot see the point in giving a rebate this service caters for the visitors to on the freight on flour as against freight Barton's Mill, and to that extent it is on coal. I would like to know if the justified. Placed where it is in the Esti- Treasurer would give this matter some mates, it appears to create subsidies for consideration. individual operators. This evening we Mr. BRAND: NO; this subsidy is an en- have been talking about the co-ordination deavour to maintain our flour industry. of transport in this State, and I suggest Unless we can compete with the Eastern that as soon as possible this particular States and elsewhere, our flour mills will service be co-ordinated. If it is, this probably have to close down. service will be well hidden among the Item No. 103: Swimming Pools-Subsi- metropolitan bus services, and any lass dies towards Operating Costs, $20,000- would appear as a legitimate expense and Mr. RAWKE: I would like the Treasurer not as a subsidy. to indicate how this subsidy towards Item No. 94: Rail Freight and Fare operating costs on swimming pools is car- Concessions--Reimbursement to Railway ried out. Does it operate only where Swim- Department of Cost of Sundry Concessions, ming pools are being run at a loss? is it $223,000- some set standard, or scale, and so on? 2168 2168[ASSEMBLY.)

Mr. BRAND: We provide a maximium ment which is highly desirable. The botani- contribution of $500 per annumn to each cal gardens will be something that is pool and that, of course, is providing the Outstanding. Ponl is not paying. I think there are very Item No. 112: Coal Mine Workers' few which have been able to make the Pension Fund-Additional contribution, grade in this regard. $12,000- To enable country people to obtain the Mr. MAY: I would draw the attention maximum benefit from these amenities, the of the Treasurer to the fact that since Government will pay a subsidy of the 1960 , when the general holocaust took operating loss up to a maximum contribu- place in Collie, 500 People were retrenched tion of $500 per annum. for each pool. The from the mining industry. There is only scheme is limited to pools situated more £750 in the fund and the keeping of the than 15 miles from the coast and is de- fund going falls heavily on those remain- signed to keep admission charges to a ing in the industry. I understand the sub- minimum. sidy of the Government could be increased. Itemz No, 104: Tertiary Education-Ti- I would also point out that the coaltuine tion. Fee Subsidy, $2,500- owners are responsible for paying so much Mr. JAMIESON: This subsidy is an per ton into this fund. I would like to innovation and it is not a large amount. ask the Treasurer if the amount of $12,000 I would like to know what is intended by could be increased to keep the fund in the Government and whether there is a state of stability. likely to be an increase in the tuition-fee Mr. HAWKE: I would like to ask the subsidy in future. Treasurer a question in connection with Mr'. BRAND: This item provides for the this matter. He may not be able to answer payment of a tuition-fee subsidy to stu- offhand. If he is not able to answer to- dents attending the Schools of Occupa- night, I would like him to make some in- tional Therapy and Physiotherapy with quiry about it. I understand that when effect from the beginning of the 1966 the Federal Government increases pension academic year. payments and some of these men who are on the Coal Mine Workers' Pension Fund The subsidy will be at the rate of $42 receive an increased Federal pension pay- per year and available on the same condi- ment, the amount payable to them at the tions as the subsidy commenced a year time from the State fund is reduced cor- earlier in respect of University students; respondingly. that is, students must be studyingm full time and be permanently domiciled in Western I could understand that happening if the Australia situation was such in regard to the in- and not in receipt of financial dividual pensioner that he was receiving assistance by way of scholarship, bursary, the increased new amount from the Com- or employer's assistance to the extent of monwealth and the full amount from the 50 per cent, or more of the fees payable State fund, and it was mocre than he was by a full-time student. allowed by the Commonwealth in total and Item,. No. 105: King's Park Board, consequently he had the Federal payment $144,000- reduced. However, there are some eases, Mr. MAY: No doubt the Premier on I understand, where the total amount be- his way backwards and forwards from his ing received is well below the maximum home has seen great areas in King's Park allowed by the Commonwealth before the that have been denuded of native trees. means test takes effect. Nobody seems to know anything about it. I would like to ask the Treasurer whe- I would say it is being done against the ther he has any information at the instruction of this Parliament that none moment on this point. If not, would he of the forest should be pulled up. Can the try to obtain information for us? Treasurer state under whose authority this Mr. BRAND: I have not the informa- is being done? tion but will obtain it for the Leader of Mr. BRAND: This work has been going the Opposition. on for a long while. I would refer to the Item No. 116: Ex Gratia payment-M. opening ceremony for the botanical gar- C. Harris, $5- dens and the establishment of local flora, and the development of a small ornamen- Mr. HAWKE. This item and item tal lake where a memorial is to be erected 117 deal with ex gratia payments. I am for our Pioneer women. This work is not so concerned with these items as with being done by a committee of women that two items which do not have a -vote this is raising the money to establish the pool year. I am referring to the Pingrup Hotel and garden. As far as approval is con- and retired school teachers. The Treasurer cerned, it is being done through the King's might have some information about them. Park Board. The work has been there Mr. Brand: No, I do not have any in- for anyone to clearly see for a year or more. formiation. Mr. ,Jamieson: I think it is contra- Item No. 118: Fire Control-Various vening the Act. Country Districts, $4,510- Mr. BRAND: As far as I am concerned Mr. KELLY: My concern on this item the board seems to he making an improve- is that there appears to be no allowance [Tuesday, 8 November, 1966.1 2169 made for maintenance of signs. Consider- is made to the commission towards ad- ing the signs cost $9.35 each, they are not ministration expenses. very attractive, and they are certainly not Mr. GAYFER: Has the Treasurer any good eye-catchers. No imagination was idea of how much of that $8,800 is for the used in their design, and they have not board services? been placed in good positions. If it were Mr. BRAND: No. Evidently this is what necessary to paint a kangaroo Paw on a Commission is Paid sign, at least it should be painted in its the State Electricity true colours instead of in black. as a recoup of the fees collected. Another point is that these signs are Item No. 131: State Building Sutpplies- rarely placed near Crown land; they are Employees' Leave Entitlement, $6,000- mostly on narrow verges where there is Mr. JAMIESON: This item is rather very little danger of fire, or near Private amazing when we recall the lengthy de- property. It would be far preferable if bates we have had over the years in these signs were placed at the beginning connection with the State Building Sup- and end of reserves and in those Places plies. Apparently last year someone was where flowers and shrubs still exist. forgotten and an extra $4,783 was re- Many of these signs require mainten- quired. I imagine it is about time we ance because a lot of the paint has blis- were relieved of this responsibility. How tered and they are becoming illegible. much more will we be involved in for this the Mr. BRAND: Signs of any description item? This is all adding up against sale of the concern, because we know we require regular maintenance. However. I that sale. I would will refer the matter to the Minister for received very little from Forests who will report later on. like an explanation of this item. Item No. 127: Pay Roll Tax, Mr. BRAND: The only information I $1,340,000- have in detail is that during 1965-66 ex- Mr. HAWKE: This is a very substantial penditure was higher than anticipated due item, as the Treasurer would agree. to the payment of leave entitlements to Mr. Brand: Yes, Sir! the general manager on his retirement. Mr. HAWKE: I would like to know As no abnormal payments are expected wvhether there was any discussion on this next year, the estimate has been reduced. subject at the last Premiers' conference, Provision is made for the Government's and whether any representations were commitment for long service leave and sick made to the Commonwealth Government leave entitlements for former employees of representatives who were at the confer- the State Building Supplies. ence, to see whether any easement of this Item No. 133: War Service Land Settle- Commonwealth tax upon the State Gov- ment Scheme-State's Share o1 Losses, ernments was likely in the near future. $1 .400,0 00- Mr. BRAND: As far as I can remember Mr. CROMMELIN: I sent a memo, to this item was not discussed at the last the Treasurer regarding this item about a conference, but it was at the one Prior to week ago. Is this item, in regard to the that. As the Leader of the Opposition war service land settlement scheme which wvell knows, this matter has been discussed was commenced about 1945 and the losses at many of these conferences, but always of which amount to $1,500,000, likely to with the same result. The Common- Continue ad infinitum? wvealth persists with its attitude and will Mr. BRAND: The increased provision make no concessions at all to the States for this Particular vote of $18,054--and in respect of this very large item. this refers to the State's share of the Whether it was that the Premiers felt no losses of the war service land settlement good purpose would be served in raising scheme-is to meet the State's share of the matter again I do not know, but it the excess cost of acquisition and devel- was not raised at the last conference. opment during the Period of five years Item No. 130: State Electricity Com- which commenced in 1965-66. mission-Board Services and Registration Under the war service land settlement Fees, $8,800- scheme the Commonwealth provides the Mr. GAYFER: Could the Treasurer give capital for acquiring, developing, and an explanation of the purpose for this improving land for settlement. However, amount? where the total cost of acquiring, develop- Mr. BRAND: Yes. The Provision for ing and improving any land is in excess 1966-67 has been retained at a level com- of the valuation of such improved land. parable with expenditure in 1965-66 and the State must bear two-fifths of the is considered to be a reasonable assess- excess of the cost over the valuation. ment of the amount required under this The total estimated loss on the scheme heading. Fees which are collected under is $21,000,000 of which a sum of $8,400,000 the Electricity Act regulations are paid to has to be met by the State. Up to the the Consolidated Revenue Fund in accord- 30th June, 1965, an amount of $1,602,000 ance with the Constitution Act. As the only had been Paid and the balance is work of examination and collection of fees to be met over five financial years com- is carried out by the State Electricity mencing 1965-66 as a charge to this item. Commission a recoup of the fees collected Vote Put and passed. 2170 (COUNCIL.]

Progress Scheme of 1963, but no immediate Progress reported and leave given to sit plans have been formulated for its again, on motion by Mr. Nalder (Minister improvement. The Main Roads for Agriculture). Department has instructed con- sulting engineers to consider the House adjourned at 12.23 a. phasing and programming of the (Wednesday) inner ring freeway and the first three miles of radial freeways. When this assignment is com- pleted it will be Possible to con- sider relevant important regional roads, including Rutland Avenue. Ki&gisLautT Cnril in this context.' Wednesday, the 9th November, 1966 ROAD MAINTENANCE TAX CONTENTS Collections and Matching Grant Page 2. The BILLS- Hon. J. M. THOMSON asked the Aerial Spraying Control 1361-2r...... 2188 Minister for Local Government: Amendments Incorporation Act Amendment Bill: (1) What amount of tax has been col- sr...... 2t85 Coam...... 2135 lected pursuant to the Road Financial Agreement (Amendment) Bill- Maintenance (Contribution) Tax Jr. 2170 Act to the 31st October, 1966? Canm Raert...... 2179 Sr...... 2179 (2) What will the matching money Perpietnal Executors Trustees and Agenty Company amount to relative to the amount (WA.) Limited Act Amendment Bill (Private)- stated in reply to (1) ? Rural Recelptand Industries Jr...... 2179 Bank Act Amendment Bill- (3) (a) Is there a fixed amount of Assembly's Message...... 2203 Statute La. Revision BIII-2r...... 2179 receipts from road mainten- Statute Law Revision Bill tMn. 2)- ance (contribution) tax at 2r...... 2183 which matching money ceases Coam' Report 2184 Revisio 2184 to apply: and Statute Law Reiio(Short Titles) Bill- (b) if so, what is this amount? 2r...... 2184 Cam...... 2185 The Hon. L. A. LOGAN replied: West Australian Trustee Executor and Agency Com- (1) $1,252,976. pany Limited Act Amendment Bill (Private)- Receipt ;Ir...... 2179 (2) and (3) Revenue from road main- tenance charges forms part of the NO0TIONS- State pool of road State Forests-- funds. Al- Revocation or Dedication Assembly's Restlu- though the cost of administration ela...... 2200 of the Road Maintenance (Con- Revocation or Inland Area: Assembly's Resolu- tribution) Act cannot be deducted tion...... 2203 from the amounts collected under QUESTIONS ONlNGTICE- that Act this cost must be met Road Maintenance Tax : Collections and Niatebing Grant ...... 2170 from the general pool of road Rutland Avenue : Widening ...... -.. 2170 funds, and the net amount of those funds attracts matching moneys. The total amount avail- able as matching moneys under The PRESIDENT (The Hon. L. C. Diver) the Commonwealth Aid Roads Act took the Chair at 4.30 p.m., and read for the four years to the 30th June, prayers. 1969, will be $14,840,000. QUESTIONS (2): ON NOTICE FINANCIAL AGREEMENT RUTLAND AVENUE (AMENDMENT) BILL Widening Second Reading 1. The Hon. C. E. GRIFFITHS asked Debate resumed from the 8th November. the Minister for Town Planning: THE HON. W. F. WILLESEE (North- (1) Is it the intention of the Govern- East Metropolitan-Leader of the Opposi- ment to widen Rutland Avenue tion) [4.41 p.m.): This Bill is simplicity in between Welshpool and Rivervale itself, for it merely seeks to convert in the near future? amounts in pounds, shillings, and pence (2) If so. when will the work be into decimal currency. The very name of effected? the Act which the Bill seeks to amend (3) If not, will urgent consideration was so intriguing to me that I thought be given to this matter in view of it worth while to make some effort to find the increase of traffic in recent out why the Act was introduced in the months? first place, and why the Bill is now before The Hon. L. A. LOGAN replied: us for conversion of the agreement into (1) to (3) Rutland Avenue between decimal currency. Welshpool and Rivervale was Prom inquiries of a learned friend of scheduled as an important region- mine I find that it is one of the most im- al road in the Metropolitan Region portant Acts of Parliament ever to be