House of Commons CANADA Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology INDU Ï NUMBER 024 Ï 2nd SESSION Ï 39th PARLIAMENT EVIDENCE Wednesday, March 5, 2008 Chair Mr. James Rajotte Also available on the Parliament of Canada Web Site at the following address: http://www.parl.gc.ca 1 Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology Wednesday, March 5, 2008 Ï (1535) I've been tracking the development of RADARSAT-2 for a [English] number of years and was invited to appear before the House of Commons Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International The Chair (Mr. James Rajotte (Edmonton—Leduc, CPC)): Trade in 2005 to speak about the Remote Sensing Space Systems We'll call this meeting to order. This is the 24th meeting of the Act, which was at that time called Bill C-25. At that time I was Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology. representing my previous employer, the Polaris Institute, and we Members, we have 13 votes at 5:30, so we'll have to end this raised concerns about the potential defence applications of meeting at 5:15. RADARSAT-2 and the need for its sensitive technology to be firmly controlled by the Canadian government. I believe our last guest is here. We have with us today four guests. The orders of the day today are, pursuant to Standing Order 108 In recent years my work has become more involved in promoting (2), for the study of the proposed sale of part of MacDonald, Canadian leadership and ensuring that the benefits of space and its Dettwiler and Associates Ltd. to Alliant Techsystems. peaceful uses are made available to all nations and do not become another field of military and national security conquests that could We have with us in the room, first of all, the chair of the Rideau result in disastrous consequences. Institute on International Affairs, Mr. Steven Staples. Welcome. From the University of British Columbia we have Professor Canadian leadership internationally requires that the government Michael Byers. He's the Canada Research Chair in global politics have clearly defined goals. Hence the need for a comprehensive and international law. Canadian space policy to guide the development of Canada's space science, technology, and industry to maximize our benefits from the As individuals we have with us Mr. Hugh Thompson, spacecraft peaceful uses of space. systems engineer with MDA Ltd., and last, by video conference from Montreal, the former president of the Canadian Space Agency, Mr. Marc Garneau. Today we've prepared a backgrounder for you as the committee examines the proposed sale of MDA's information system, which Mr. Garneau, can you hear me okay? includes RADARSAT-2, and MDA's space robotics division, which Mr. Marc Garneau (Former President, Canadian Space is responsible for Canadarm2, the space station remote manipulator Agency, As an Individual): I can hear you loud and clear, Mr. system, which is Canada's contribution to the international space Chair. station. The Chair: Thank you very much for that. Since the beginning of the program, RADARSAT has been hailed We will allow up to five minutes to each of you for opening as a breakthrough in Canada's ability to monitor our vast land mass statements. Thereafter, we will go to questions from members. and to better understand our geography, our natural resources, and We'll start with Mr. Staples, please. monitor our coast lines. How prescient were its designers that today, with climate change and the eventual opening of the Northwest Mr. Steven Staples (Chair, Rideau Institute on International Passage to shipping, we would have this system available to us to Affairs): Good afternoon, and thank you very much for inviting me ensure our security and to assert our sovereignty. to speak to you today. I'm Steve Staples, the president and director of the Rideau There are many green uses of RADARSAT-2, as portrayed in this Institute, an independent, non-profit research, advocacy, and brochure—literally coloured green—which was produced by consulting group based here in Ottawa. During my career I've had MacDonald, Dettwiler, and Associates to promote the uses of the opportunity to research and comment on many issues related to RADARSAT-2. Its vision in this brochure is echoed by Michel national security and Canadian industry, particularly in the field of Giroux, of the Canadian Space Agency, who in 2005 told the defence. I was involved in the public debate on Canada's Canadian affairs committee that CSA has always maintained that participation in the ballistic missile defence program. I'm the author RADARSAT-2, like RADARSAT-1, is an earth observation satellite of Missile Defence: Round One, a book on that subject that was intended for peaceful use. It exists to allow us to manage the earth's published in 2006. surface and to carry out environmental monitoring. 2 INDU-24 March 5, 2008 However, there is a darker side to RADARSAT-2, and that is its [English] ability to provide imagery for military purposes. I say darker as it's encaptured by this other brochure by MDA, on RADARSAT-2 as well, which is literally coloured black, touting the satellite's usefulness to defence consumers—the green RADARSAT and the I too have been following the issue of RADARSAT closely for black RADARSAT. some years now. Most recently, it's been in my capacity as the leader of a project on sovereignty and shipping in the Northwest Passage Ironically, in this sale of RADARSAT-2 to the U.S. firm Alliant for ArcticNet, a federally funded consortium of scientists from 28 Techsystems, we may be undermining our own national security. We Canadian universities and five federal departments. could be selling off our ability to monitor our coasts and provide our government with the data it needs to make decisions. As well, we could be eroding our industrial base and space industries, which will limit our future capacities. Prime Minister Harper has recently taken some significant steps to assert Canadian sovereignty in the north. He committed to a deep- Let me make five points about the sale of MDA's information water wharf on northern Baffin Island, a cold-weather training centre systems. for the Canadian Forces, six to eight ice-strengthened patrol vessels for the navy, and most recently, $750 million for a polar icebreaker. This is a bad deal for Canadians. Taxpayers have invested close to $500 million in the remote sensing satellite RADARSAT-2. In contrast, MDA, the private owner of RADARSAT-2, has reportedly invested a much smaller amount—some estimates have been as low It is the latter commitment that I want to dwell on briefly in as $92 million. Yet it's selling this technology and its other space relation to the proposed sale of RADARSAT-2. Imagine that the new systems for a cool $1.3 billion. icebreaker was constructed as a public-private partnership with a There are also potentially grave negative implications of the sale hypothetical company called Northern Defence Associates, or NDA, of RADARSAT-2 for Canada's continued regulation of the satellite's a Canadian company based in Richmond, B.C. Under this operation to assure that it is “neither injurious to national security, to hypothetical arrangement, the Canadian government contributes the defence of Canada, to the safety of Canadian Forces or to $445 million towards the construction of the icebreaker in return for Canada's conduct of international relations, nor inconsistent with a specified number of hours during which the vessel will be available Canada's international obligations”, as prescribed in that 2005 for use on a priority basis by the Canadian Coast Guard. Remote Sensing Space Systems Act, which was envisioned to regulate RADARSAT-2. Ï (1540) Imagine also that ownership of the vessel vests in NDA, which is allowed—indeed encouraged—to create jobs and stimulate econom- The third point— ic activity in Canada by chartering the icebreaker to other users when The Chair: Mr. Staples, you are over time now, but I'm just going it is not required by the Canadian Coast Guard. Such other users to encourage you to try to wrap up as soon as you can. might include, for example, shipping companies requiring icebreak- Mr. Steven Staples: Okay. Thank you. I have provided a brief. ing escorts through the Northwest Passage. I would just say that I believe that this deal will have no less an impact on Canada's space industry and our capabilities than the cancellation of the Avro Arrow had on our aerospace industry in the Everybody is happy, myself included. The Canadian government 1950s. I believe that the loss of technology and scientists, if we sell obtains a major tool for sovereignty assertion, NDA obtains off this system, will be felt for generations. significant subsidies in return for providing a public good, and there is opportunity to garner profits through private contracts on the So we are recommending that the Minister of Industry not approve side. Commercial shipping companies from around the world the sale of MDA's information division to ATK, based on those benefit, promoting trade and general prosperity. That is until NDA primary national security concerns. announces that it intends to sell the icebreaker to an American I thank you very much, and I look forward to your questions. company called Southern Tech Systems, STK, that specializes in supporting Antarctic operations. The Chair: Thank you very much, Mr. Staples. We will now go to Mr. Byers, please. Mr. Michael Byers (Professor, Canada Research Chair (Tier A controversy erupts, and rightly so. Will the icebreaker continue One) in Global Politics and International Law, University of to be registered in Canada? You may ask if it will continue to be British Columbia): Thank you very much for having me appear available for use on a priority basis by the Canadian Coast Guard, here today.