Jesse L. Ward, Jr. mroc .

GUEST :

NODERATOR :

RBPORrnS :

PRODUCER: ANNOUNCER: Senator Dirksen -- FACE THE NATION. (Pklsic 1

ANNOUNCER: You are about to see the Senate Minority

Leader, Everett S.I. Dirksen, Republican of Illinois, FACE

THE IJATION, in a spontaneous and unrehearsed interview wi+h veteran correspondents from the nation" press:

Philip Potter, of the Warla9hington Bweau of fhe EWtimore sun;

Bill Downs, of CBS News; and .-. Warren Duffee, of the Senate Staff of United Press .- Inbernat ional . And now here is the mode~atorof FACE THE NATION,

CBS News Correspondent Stuart Novfns.

MR. 2JOVINS: Senator Evereke Dirksen is the leade~of tbe Republican Party in the Senate. As minority leader he is in constant liaison with the White House. During tnese past vreeks, wi'ch Japan, with the Congressior?al legislative program, with the Rockefeller challenge to . Nixon, there have been many things to talk about, and Senator Dirksen is here now to FACE THE 3IATION. Senahor, not oniy are there these 'Ghlngs to discuss, but you are also being mentfoned as a possible vice President.

So, if gou will, let" start with this first question from . DufPee. 3 MR. DtPPEE: Yes. I3d like to find out about that, too, Senat or. You have told us on many occasions that you are not a candfda-be for Vice President. However, yotlr home State of Illinois has just gLven you a very substantial and meaningful

endo~semenil, and I ~IR wonderfng if perhaps in the light of that you might, shall we say, relent, and admit that you would like to be a candidate. - SENATOE DIRKSEN: Well, Mr. Wfee, I think I must

still continue in the role of tho reluctant dragon. I have said always that I am not a candidate, but I must

say this is the first news I have had of this endorsement, believe me.

14R. DWEE: Wel.1, you wouldnnt turn it down, Senator?

SEXATOR DIRICSEN: I would regard it as high recognition

by the Republicans of the State of Illinois. And being a servant of the corntry and the party, I have always gone on the broad theory tha-b 1 go wherever duty commands or wherever they invite me to go.

MR. DUFFF8: This means, then, you will not do anything to discourage ang move in your behalf?

SEHATOR DIIIIBEN: Xell, I donot suppose I should, as

a matter or" face. I should follow the dictates of the party leaders and make myself amenable to their suggestions and

their commands with respeot to party and national duty. 4

E2R. DmFEE: Haa Vice President ATPxon, who appears to be most likely you?? nominee, has he or have am of his people approached you about this?

SENATOW DmKSEN: Oh, definitely not.

MR. MCVINS: Mr. Downs.

BE?. DOWNS: Well, in view of the smit failure and the fiasco in Sapan, Sena'coa? Dlrksen, do you think that the Rep~~blicanshave lost the peace issue? SENATOR ~rm-m:I do not bexieve so. . 0 my? .- SENATOR DIFESEN: Well, for many reasons. I think they ought to disclose what the real problem was in Japan, in cosnni-ng to a conclusion on that question.

WL DOIWS: What was the real problm?

SZidATOR DIRICSE24: Well, the real problem was thf s: that after we had %he signing of the Japanese T~eaky, in tfashington, in January, and it was ratified on May 20 by the Japanese Diet, that Is when the violence really began.

And I recall when one of the representatives of the Foreign

Affairrs Committee of %he Japanese Diet was here, he sald it had been going on in sporadic fashion for a long time and we could anticipate i"r,?ould be stepped up, and all this he confir~edto me in a letter no% oves two or three weeks ago.

So, T fully anticipated that this sort of Lhing was going to happen. 5 MR. DOWNS: Well, donot you believe, then, that the

President might have gotten some bad advice to put himself in a position of being embazlraased?

SENATOR DIXIISEN: No, def initely not, because since

Kishi ma& tvro visits here, one in connection with the

Treaty, obviously an invitation is a rather so1m.n thing, and I think the Fresident was fully justified in accepting it. &xi, secondly, he must not appear -aa one who would shihirk his duty from any sense of fear or apprehension about what may happen on a sojourn of this kind.

MR, POTTIB: Senator, I@dlike to go back to this possibili%y of your being a Vice Presidential candidate. IT you are not, in your judgment who vall make the best running mate for the Vice -- for Mr. Nbon, who ~questionablyisgoing to be the nominee?

SENATOR DIRKSEN: Well, PkIr. Potter, as you know, that question is as open as a 40-acre field, iRthe sense -- khat there have been a great many people mentioned: Comer Senator Xemy Cabot Lodge, the Ninori%y Leader of the House, I%. Halleck, Wuston Mo~tor., the Chairman of the Na%ional Cmittx?e, and a great many others. So, if on the basis of my experience in okher Conventions, that carries over in lS0, the ultimate decision will obviously be in the hands of the PresldentiaZ nominee.

MR. POTTER: Well, Senator, you mentioned a couple of possibilities. It 8s notewor-ichy you did not mention Governor Rocker'eller, of New Yosk. Is -- SENATOR DIRKSER: Well, thatss only because I didnlt give you a pun-down, Potter, on the whole lise.

MR. POTTER: Do you thfnk his recent crii;icism of the Vice President and of Lhe Administration on defense and foreign pollcy has ruled him out as a running mate for -- SENATOR DIRKSEX: Mo, I do not believe it ruled him out. I think, however, from the very derfnlte statement that Wir. Rockefeller made on several occasions, that he tried i;o take . - himself ouk of the race for "ce second spot; and so, I didnee give that too much attention.

MR. D01v"rJS: Do you have any idea why he made thfs announcement at tkls parttculw time? Bere, Nixon had just

won a big victory in California, and the priimrles were all

over. Idhat was the st~ategy,what was your fnterpretathn

of his strategy on it?

SERATOR DIRHSBJ: Frankly, I have no interpretation of

that statement at all. And I say that on this background:

fl~st,I have known Nelson Rockefeller ineimately for at loant ftsteen ream and perhaps tvsenty years; secondly, I

have worked with h2m some when he waa in the Federal Govern-

nent, and I esteem him as a frlend. I have no explanation For it at all. fls* I

rm. N~Ns: Do you put him in a different category from yourself, Senator? You indicated before, abou* your own plans, that you were reluctant but not inflexible. Do you think he would fa11 into that category?

SEIYATOR DIRKSEM: Well, Mr. Novins, I have always disclaimed any real interest in being a Vice Presidential candidate, but I am ready to serve my party and my country.

fm. DUFF=: Senator, there is considerable indication thal; Senator Kennedy is certainly a.&rong and perhaps leading contefider for the Democrat1c nomination. Now, in event he . - wins the nomination, do you feel that perhaps the Republicans should nominate a Catholic Tor Vice President, perhaps iabor Secretary KLtchell, or perhaps a Governor?

SENATOR DIRKSEN: I have never speculated On this subject because I have never permitted myself to let that thought intvlucle into my thinking at all. MR. DUFFEE: YoLi don ctthink a Catholic as Vice President wouldn't strengthen %he ticket against a Democratic Catholic :?ombee?

SERATOR DIRKSEN: Well, it might or mi&% not be. But I always th9nk of a candidate as a citizen of -the United States, and one who, because of the jucigaent of his palgty, is eminently qualified to be a candida- of his party; arid beyond that, I have riot let my speculations go very far.

XR. POTTER: Senator, you have said that you are a Reluctant Dragon, and you've noted that Governor Rockefeller is, too. One who is not a Reluctant Dragon is Senator mrry Goldivmter of Arizona, who seems to have considerable support in the South -- South Carolina has endorsed him, Texas has

indicated they would like &hi on the ticket. Mould you like to see hfn go on the ticket? Do you think he would be a -- Feally represent the kind of Republicanism you'd like to see on the ticket? - SENATOll DIRITSEN: I've a great affection for Senator Goldwaiier. We work Well togetherj-particularly on the Labor

Comft%ee of the Senate, and I esteem him very highly as a very courawxas public sewant, and if the party saw fit to

nomfnate &lm, why, that would certainly have my approval. la. DOWN3: SenatOiq, I'd like to get back to this forelm

policy question because it's pretty obvious that this is go5.w

to be one, if not the major, lasue in the upcomfng campaigns.

Now you have indica%ed after the U-2 Incident and the Swnmit Conference that any criticism of the Administration and of the President gersonzlly somehow would weaken our posi ion vis-a-vis the Conmis2;s and somehow might be slightly unpatriotic, Is that true or not?

SXNA'170R DZRISSEN: i believe that the essence of my observations, ko'ch. on and off the Senate Floor, was that I thought it was a most appropriate thing not to downgrade our

own country. I don't mind criticism. It would be an amazing 1 thlng in a free country if you didn't have it, even when it's directed against the President of the United States. But f doubt very much the wisdom of downgrading or setting forth in i~idescentletters any so-called or alleged deterioration in our om country. But, that's qulte different from criticism, I must say.

NCKENS: hJel.1, Senator, did you feel that way when the Republicans talked about Truman's wap in Korea? SEMTOR DIRKSEN: Oh, I think so;- ?BeNMOVINS: Well, how do you criticize a policy without " downgrading it?

SENATm DIRYSEN: Well, you start from a broad premise there. The quostlon is: Was it a war or a police action. NR. NCNIHS: Letts talk about the current situation,

Senator?. How would you criticize the culzrent policy, if you honestly felt it ought to be criticized, without downgrading %he United States?

SENATW DIRKSEN: Well, it can be criticized at any time. %en they criticize the foreign policy of the country as such, it's perfectly all right in my book because I think there is an answer for it. But unless people know, unless they have full knowledge w%th reslpec"co %he strength of this country, they ought to bs pretky caraful about telling how weak we are in this field, in this department, in this area, because you can make, in my estimate, no good Judgment of t-hat matter unless you have the whole ball of truth before you.

MR. DUFFEE: Well, Senator, does this mean that you are goin&, you or some other Republican is going to take to the Floor or the airwaves or the stmp to answer every aYcack made on foreign policy by any Democrat, or just those made by Presidential candidates like Kennedy, for example?

SENATOR D~KSEN: WeX1, obviously, you can't answer all of them. But I think the issue will be Joined in some major respect and there you'll fling it ba"ck.

MR. DUFFEE : Well, what kind- of a major respect could you join it, short of the Presidential campaign? SENATOR DIRKSEN: Well, I don't -- Are you inferring that I'm opposed to any criticism in a Besidential campaign?

MR. DWEEI (3, no; not any criticism in a Presidential campaign, but you seem Go be criticizing criticism of the Administration's foreign policy.

SENATOR DLRRSEhr: Oh9 definitely not. They can criticize it to their heart's content, but I still make the point that; when you 'calk about how weak or how strong we are in %he socket field, %he missile fleld, the nuclear weapons field,

in balance strength, I doubt very mch whether any person in responsible Position should advertise that to the whole wide world unless he is pretty awe that kegs got all the Pacts at his comnd.

m. NCNINS: Well, Senator, do you think the Democrat6 -L are corsect, then, if they criticize the methods by which foreign policy is arrived at in the Administration? SENATORDIRKSEX: oh, I have no objection to that; certainly not. MR. POTTZR: Senator, Senalor Kennedy has asked for what is, in effect, a crash progpam to build up what he claims has been a SwePe deteriora%Lon --in our strength. He has urged an imwdiate stopgap air alert, he% urged stepped-up production of the ATLAS and stepped-up- Gesearch and development on the second generation missiles, such as POLARIS and KCNUTEN4. Do you oppose such a pJ?ogram or do you -- do you feel that rue are adequately going along, as it is?

SENATOR DTRICSEN: No, Mr. Potter. Let me put it in capsule form. Thore were twelve specific suggestions Ln the statement that Senator Kennedy made on the Floor of the Senate, and I sTymbolized *he whole matter in the rejoinder I made the other day when I said: One, he wants more of everything for everybody everywhere, without being specific; and, two, he has undertaken to advertise our deterioration to +,he whole wide world. How, it was in respect to the first item that I think

I was a little caustic and I believe rightly so, because Mr.

Kennedy ought to be pretty careful t&t he has all %he facts before he does it,

XRi POTTER: You think we should not go into a stop-gap emergency air -- 12

SENATOR DIRKSBFJ: Oh, well, I don't comnt on that; I gust take issue with him on this ground. I think a Defense budget that hae been put together by people schooled and who are competent in the art, who have worked at it for months and months and months -- plus, of cowse, the advfce of the National Security Council, plus the expert advice of the President of the mlted Stataa, plus the look-see of men on the Appropria%ions Committees in the 13ouse and in the Senate, stands; up on one side of the picturras something pretty sub- stantial, $0 that If you sea& from that premise and say them? must be more and more and more of everything for everybody everywhere, over and beyond this, and tnen couple it with a cr.iMcisrn *hat tihere has been deterioration in our national defense, then I do take some umbrage.

NR. DOWNS: Weell, an the other slde oS the pic.ture, Senator Disksen, you have Stuart Symlngton who was an ex-Air Force Seeretaply, you have the Gaither Report which was organ- ized by his om -- by the aepublican Admfnlstsation, and you have nen who have been members of the Atomic Energy Commission who disagree. Now, there 19 disagreement within the Atomic

Energy Comissf on, there is df sagreemen$ within the Pentagon. Xow, unless we as a democracy know what is going on, how can anyone make a sound jud&??ent, then?

SBNATOR DWKSEN: Well, my answer is this: You have men in uniform who have dedicated their lives to the country. They 3.3 have come up $he long, hacd way. We expect them to be competent and skilled in that field because if it were not so they would not be urearing one, two, three, fous stars on their shoulders, but that is an evidence of long experience in the field. You don't completely negal;e Gho judgment; of a man who was the grand captab of the greaeest offensive in any tidim or genera- tion in the history of mankind, nor those who are on the Security Council. They've got to work with a balanced program that comes within the capacity of t& country, and at the same time in their considered Judgment is wholly adequate to .- our swvival and defense needs. And before you try to knock it down, you7&better be pretty sure that the people who are trybg to knock it down have an equal competence in tha% DUFFEE: Then, you are sa@-ng, in effect, %hat speakers like Senator Kennedy did not have an equal competence.

SEHA'POR DIRKSEX: Well, Iill be very candid with you, Mr. mffee. I doubt it, BEl. DUFFEE: Senator, if -- we all %Pee, 1% sure, 'chat the peace issue and preparedness are definitely going to be campaign iSsUeS and very widely and thoroughly discussed; but tritat, in your ~ind,if YOU jue'tick them off for 7.18, what, in your mind, might be three or four or five of the .- other most Important issues in this campaign?

SENATOR DIRKSEW: (31, you will have the budget question, youzll have the tax question, and, incidentally, thatas very much to the fore now, slnce the Senate Finance Committee reportied the bill to whack somethLsg over three-quarters of a billion out of the revenues -- MR. DUFFEE: mat figure is open to dispute, Sen~tor, but Itm not--Ibn not taking you as saying -- SENATOR DIRIrSIDT: ma% s rwt, but it is still a chunk cut or %he revenues. Another bill was repori;ed only this week for a ~e'cirementsystem for self-employed which, by the least calculation, will probably take another $250 million out of the revenues.

You have s billion in the housing bill, Youjve got a write-up over the budget estimates in the Nealth, Ed~~cation,and Welfwe, oP a half billion, A2d then, of course, youave got the mutual secwf'cy issue,

And on top of these, you911 probably have the health ~nsuranceissue, assuming, of courses thae this Congress does some'chfi with it before adjomnment , So there are many issues. -- HR, DWEE: 1Cn other words, you're going to pun -- youTre only going to run oi a ba3.mced budget, then, -- and foreign policy; is that right?

SEMATOR DIRKSEN: Fareign pollcy, balanced budget, what; do you do in the aged fleld, ?&at do you do in the appropriations field. All these, of cowse, are coaponents, or all tvfll be issues, and some sharper issues than others, depending Epon the area rv%ere ther are raised,

BE T:Senaeor, you note that the tax bill that has been reported out is going eo cut revenues -- some of your colleagues, including Senator Douglas, Democrat of ILllnois, have had some suggestions as to how the revenues can be restored and picked up. For instance, Douglas is advocating a change in the depreciation allowance for oil and gas from 27.2 pep cent to 15 pep cent, rnhich would require %he oil coffipanies and the gas companies to pay more tax into the Fede~alGovernment, Awe you in favor of 'chat move?

SENATOR DIRKSEN: T&. Pottxr, if that amendment is refined so thati in the case of those who explore and wild- cat, particularly in the areas whe~eyou do not have heavy investnients in new wells, and where %hey can afford to drop in thirty or forty thousand dollars in a 2,000-foot wel2, and then kiss i-ood-by, provided there 5s an adequate depreciation allowance, tlna%@squiLe a different thing,

But if you cut it straight across$he board, then of course it:s still another matter. 1 am thinking particularly of - the oil fields in Southern Illinois, There itgs quite cormnon to take thi~kyOr rorty thousand dollars and sink it in the earth, and I thia %he eaici o is about one good hole out of nine. Bow, you9v@got to give then some hedge, othemise all your wildcatting, all your exploring, will come to an end.

So if tha* matter is refined, I think I can go along with something in tha% field, md I think ochers can do likewise.

RR. SOW: Senzt;or, you said the other day that after the Senate passed the Federal pay saise bill granting about; a million and a half for postal workers and civil. service workers, a 7$ per cent raise, I think, tihat the Eresfdent probably would vci;o it. Yougve got a medical care bill &hat the ZkmocPats have been puahiw along, that you also

Indicated thaZ if it1a not changed, migkt be vetoed. Do you think there is a danger that the President might be able to veto Richard Nixon out of the Wkfte House?

SENATOR DIRIZSEX: $Jell, Ff0 Downs, first, this gives me a good opportunity to correct any mis-impression that may result f~omthe ease r&th which I sometimes use the threat or" a veto, Ppankly, I ought to be a little more cautious about it, because I cannot speak for the President.

Insofar as I know, and in all the days that I have atteidecl leadership meetings, I have never heard, nor have I ever v seen the President fndicate in advance when a measwe was likely to be vetoed or not vetoa4, And so I ought to exercise a llttle more caution -- nor should I use that as a pistol, when Irm carrying on a fat;ner intense and passionate argument on the Floor of the Senate, but 1% pretty confident, recurring now to the third item in your guestion, that he will notveto &** Nixon.

3lilii. DUFPEE: Senator, me Congress is crying, fits and &arbs, to Peaish up here in two or three weeks, Do you think itgs actually possible? They have a very heavy legislative load to do, whfch I 'chink you, youmelf, have ouklined on occasion, Do you honestly believe you cizn fhish before me Democratic Convention? Thaw8 less than -- three weeks froin today.

SENATOR DIRKSEX: Well, 3b. Duffee, you ?rill recall the last press conference I had. MR. DLWFEE: Very vividl~r, Sire SENATOR DIEUGWT: Af-e the last policy meeting. DWFEE: Very vividly,

SENATOR DLRKSm: And we run down 14, 15, 16, major items on which it was hoped there would be action before

%his Congress came to an end. NOW, it depends entirely on how much time 1s devo'ced to a given item. Suppone, for instance, ~WGsome health Snsurance package is added to the ttic bill that is presently w. the Floor, and, mlnd you, those excise hxes are going to have to be renewed - elevei days frm no%, otherwise there wL1l be substantial losses to the Treasuw, bak you may have enom Senators to carry on, aid you may have to have round-the-clock sessLons; 1 do not know. 3u-k itis a veq substantial package tc conclur3e before %he fimt National Conventlon in Los Angeles, Ward 19 a01(4) flS.0'~ m. DWFEE: But do you think it's possible to finish?

SEPiATm DIRKSEN: Well, Z%Xtkly, not knowing quite how

intense my colleagues Ln inhe Senate on both sides of ehe aisle are with respect to these issues, I do not know how much time

is going $0 be devoted to it, and consequently the calendar could run out on you and you wouldnxl't conclude them. Then t;ho question arLaes: Do you adjourn or do you rece;ss and come

back? Obviounly, every Flmber hopes there wfll be no recess,

that when the curtain rings down it%illbe aine die, the Latin tern for -- wi%hov.t an appointed day -- that they can

stay home, that they can pursue the campaign, and I have an

equal hope, but whether it will eventuaee remains to be seen.

Mi, PWTER: Senator, 1 noticed in mingdown the

issues for Nr. Dulffee a monent ago there was one signifioant omission, Do you not think that Ezra Taft Benson, Secretary

of AgXPcul-i;u~e,is going t:, be an issue?

SENATOR DIREZN: Oh, he is an issue in some sections.

m. PO-: ~n what way is that going to affect Nixon's chances?

SENATOR DIRKSEX: WeZ1,I do ocjt believe it will have any significant impact on his chances.

El. COWS: tiell, Senator, this brings up this problem: The Vice President is committed to mmnjlng on the %record of the Eisenhower AdsnInistration but, at the same time, he said

he is going to make new suggestions in the field of foreign 20

policy, farm policy, and the rest of it. Have you discussed wlth him, about the possibility of new approaches to the farm bill, the farm --

GENATOR BIF.m: Hoo; but, Fir. Do-is, I apprehencl Just exactly this: When they meet in convention at Chicago they will mite a platform. Certal~ly,the Vlce President and his vlernrs will have some impact on the platform. Once it ia done, that becomes the working document of the party, and lt does represent thelr promises, ,i;heir ple$es, their assurances to

the country. Now, you lonow how much weight and how much im- portance hesiclent Eisenhower attaihed to the party platfom, and constantly went back to it because he said when you made Lt, make a pledge, that's a covenant, it a a solemn thing and, insofar as you can do it, making allowance, of course, for changes in conditions from one year to the oi;hor, 5ou shouldntt make that pledge lighely. Obviously, there will be a farm plank fn bhe platfox%, but 1 do expect %he Vice Besident at that time, when the platform is completed, to say, "This is the document on whlch we stand. " I%. I%. POTTER: Do you -- you epee, then, that he should not speak out on ththis, these issues now, although Governor RocWsefeller has said %hat he ought to speak out on all of these issues before the Conventioa? SENATOR DJCRKSE?$: Oh, the Vice President is free to speak out on anything that he likes, and he has been speaking out. m. POTTER: Do you agree with Rockefeller, that he ought to make his posit9on clear on the farm fssue, and -- before the Conven-Gion?

SENATQR DLRKSEN: I think thwe is plenty of time to do tha$, NR, DUFFEE: S~"ztt.zr,E the Sam -- If Ezra TaTt Benson and his farm policies are not going to be much of a factor on the Vice President, why has the vice-~esident, has he already announced that tomor~owin North Dakota, in the heart of the wheat country, hess going to make a major farm speech outlining his ovm views?

SEWOR DIRKSEN: Well, I think you may discover that the Vice President vron2t depart very far fran what we endeavored

to do in the Senate, and we got Vie job certainly partially done when we kad the lnthea'i; Bill before the Senate last week.

FIR. NOVINS: Sena'bor, I'd. llke to take up a couple of the issues that still remaln before the Congress. \&at, in yow opinion, is going to happer. to the Health Insurance ~ili? SENATOR DIRKS??: kiell, I'm confident, of course, that either on this tax bill or on Borne other tax bill, or in con- nection with a bill that wSl come from the house of Represent- atives, that a number ox? very substantial amendments will be oPfered. I rather anticipate the Forand Bill will be offered in the Senate, very lil~lythe PlcNamra Bl11, which has been reported -- MR. NOVINS: Will there be any final action, do you think, this term?

SENATOR DIRKSEN: Well, I think they're going to make every endeavor to get some kind of action, but what the ultimate out- come will be and what the form of the program will be when we finhsh is quite another matter, and on that I could only give you the widesl; guess.

MR. NUVINS: Well, itfsa prettjr-well educated guess, and

I'd like to use it, if J may. . - SENATOR DIRKSEN: Well, I'm not sure that it is, in view of the fact that you've got a sharp division of opinion on both sides of the aisle w2th respect to what ought to be done.

MR 4R. NOVINS: mat about school. oonstruction, Senator? SENATOR DLRKSEN: There you Pave a difference of opinion between the Eouse and the Senate, to begin with, and it's locled up in the House Rules Committee. Aa you remember, the Senate included teachers1 pay, the House said we want no part of it, The Administration wanted this d0r.e on the basis of picking up the Interest tab on the principal of loans in areas where there was a need. The House wro'ke in a grant provision, and that is a very wide depa&ure, of course, from the original Administration position.

IulR. PO^^: Senator, but assuming that the Senate and the House get together on a bill which takes out the Powell 23 Amendment, and also takes out the senate teacherst pay provision, in other words, sends a simiole school construction bill to the White House, do you 'chink the Presiaent will sign that one?

SENATOR DIRKSEM: Well, Mr. Potter, it will have to have a little more, I think. The allocation formula will have to be put in shape. The needs formula, so that this authority and these funds will not be used in cases where the need has not been demonstrated. That's going to have to be pretty clearly set f 02th in the Act. Andl then the& is this question of state matching. Now, you see, you can have state or local matching in the first year, as the thing stands. I think the

Presihnt was pretty insistent that there be skate mtching even in the first year, but it's possible then to put a bill together that would receive the approval of the President.

: Senator, one more quick question on issues :

Do you think there is a possibi2ity the Senate will restore all or most of the money cut by the House from foreign aid money?

SENATOR DBKSEN: Iqell, now, originaLZy they cut out 790 million and then restored 200 million, so it's 590 million shorG of the request. That, ol course, denies the President, particularly at a feverish time like this, some very essential funds tihat he thought were so urgently necessary -- first, to keep faith with these other countries with whom we are associated in this security ef'fort, and to carry on a program that he thinks is vieal to the defense of this country.

MX, NOVINS: Senator, you are running out of money in the Senate and we are swuiing out of time here. Thank you very much, indeed, for coming here to PACE !lXE NATION.

SXRATOR DWfSEN: Thnk you.

meNCmINS: Thanks also to today Is news correspondents:

Philip Potter, of the Baltimore Sun;

Bill Downs, of CBS Hews; and

Warren Duf'fee, of the mfeed Gss international.

This is Stuart Novins. We invite you to join us next week at chis time for another ediiion of FACE THE NATION.

Our program today originated in Washington,

ANNOUNCER: FACE TME NATION was produced by Michael J. Xalaplow. Aseocfated in production, Ellen Ifadley . Directed by Bill Linden.

Today you saw the Senate Mnority Leader, Everett M.

Birksen, Republican of Illinois, FACE THE NATIOH.

Ted WUer speaking.

Thls has been a Fublic APfairs presentation of CES News.