Jesse L. Ward, Jr. mroc . GUEST : NODERATOR : RBPORrnS : PRODUCER: ANNOUNCER: Senator Dirksen -- FACE THE NATION. (Pklsic 1 ANNOUNCER: You are about to see the Senate Minority Leader, Everett S.I. Dirksen, Republican of Illinois, FACE THE IJATION, in a spontaneous and unrehearsed interview wi+h veteran correspondents from the nation" press: Philip Potter, of the Warla9hington Bweau of fhe EWtimore sun; Bill Downs, of CBS News; and .-. Warren Duffee, of the Senate Staff of United Press .- Inbernat ional . And now here is the mode~atorof FACE THE NATION, CBS News Correspondent Stuart Novfns. MR. 2JOVINS: Senator Evereke Dirksen is the leade~of tbe Republican Party in the Senate. As minority leader he is in constant liaison with the White House. During tnese past vreeks, wi'ch Japan, with the Congressior?al legislative program, with the Rockefeller challenge to . Nixon, there have been many things to talk about, and Senator Dirksen is here now to FACE THE 3IATION. Senahor, not oniy are there these 'Ghlngs to discuss, but you are also being mentfoned as a possible vice President. So, if gou will, let" start with this first question from . DufPee. 3 MR. DtPPEE: Yes. I3d like to find out about that, too, Senat or. You have told us on many occasions that you are not a candfda-be for Vice President. However, yotlr home State of Illinois has just gLven you a very substantial and meaningful endo~semenil, and I ~IR wonderfng if perhaps in the light of that you might, shall we say, relent, and admit that you would like to be a candidate. - SENATOE DIRKSEN: Well, Mr. Wfee, I think I must still continue in the role of tho reluctant dragon. I have said always that I am not a candidate, but I must say this is the first news I have had of this endorsement, believe me. 14R. DWEE: Wel.1, you wouldnnt turn it down, Senator? SEXATOR DIRICSEN: I would regard it as high recognition by the Republicans of the State of Illinois. And being a servant of the corntry and the party, I have always gone on the broad theory tha-b 1 go wherever duty commands or wherever they invite me to go. MR. DUFFF8: This means, then, you will not do anything to discourage ang move in your behalf? SEHATOR DIIIIBEN: Xell, I donot suppose I should, as a matter or" face. I should follow the dictates of the party leaders and make myself amenable to their suggestions and their commands with respeot to party and national duty. 4 E2R. DmFEE: Haa Vice President ATPxon, who appears to be most likely you?? nominee, has he or have am of his people approached you about this? SENATOW DmKSEN: Oh, definitely not. MR. MCVINS: Mr. Downs. BE?. DOWNS: Well, in view of the smit failure and the fiasco in Sapan, Sena'coa? Dlrksen, do you think that the Rep~~blicanshave lost the peace issue? SENATOR ~rm-m:I do not bexieve so. 0 my? .- SENATOR DIFESEN: Well, for many reasons. I think they ought to disclose what the real problem was in Japan, in cosnni-ng to a conclusion on that question. WL DOIWS: What was the real problm? SZidATOR DIRICSE24: Well, the real problem was thf s: that after we had %he signing of the Japanese T~eaky, in tfashington, in January, and it was ratified on May 20 by the Japanese Diet, that Is when the violence really began. And I recall when one of the representatives of the Foreign Affairrs Committee of %he Japanese Diet was here, he sald it had been going on in sporadic fashion for a long time and we could anticipate i"r,?ould be stepped up, and all this he confir~edto me in a letter no% oves two or three weeks ago. So, T fully anticipated that this sort of Lhing was going to happen. 5 MR. DOWNS: Well, donot you believe, then, that the President might have gotten some bad advice to put himself in a position of being embazlraased? SENATOR DIXIISEN: No, def initely not, because since Kishi ma& tvro visits here, one in connection with the Treaty, obviously an invitation is a rather so1m.n thing, and I think the Fresident was fully justified in accepting it. &xi, secondly, he must not appear -aa one who would shihirk his duty from any sense of fear or apprehension about what may happen on a sojourn of this kind. MR, POTTIB: Senator, I@dlike to go back to this possibili%y of your being a Vice Presidential candidate. IT you are not, in your judgment who vall make the best running mate for the Vice -- for Mr. Nbon, who ~questionablyisgoing to be the nominee? SENATOR DIRKSEN: Well, PkIr. Potter, as you know, that question is as open as a 40-acre field, iRthe sense -- khat there have been a great many people mentioned: Comer Senator Xemy Cabot Lodge, the Ninori%y Leader of the House, I%. Halleck, Wuston Mo~tor., the Chairman of the Na%ional Cmittx?e, and a great many others. So, if on the basis of my experience in okher Conventions, that carries over in lS0, the ultimate decision will obviously be in the hands of the PresldentiaZ nominee. MR. POTTER: Well, Senator, you mentioned a couple of possibilities. It 8s notewor-ichy you did not mention Governor Rocker'eller, of New Yosk. Is -- SENATOR DIRKSER: Well, thatss only because I didnlt give you a pun-down, Potter, on the whole lise. MR. POTTER: Do you thfnk his recent crii;icism of the Vice President and of Lhe Administration on defense and foreign pollcy has ruled him out as a running mate for -- SENATOR DIRKSEX: Mo, I do not believe it ruled him out. I think, however, from the very derfnlte statement that Wir. Rockefeller made on several occasions, that he tried i;o take . - himself ouk of the race for "ce second spot; and so, I didnee give that too much attention. MR. D01v"rJS: Do you have any idea why he made thfs announcement at tkls parttculw time? Bere, Nixon had just won a big victory in California, and the priimrles were all over. Idhat was the st~ategy,what was your fnterpretathn of his strategy on it? SERATOR DIRHSBJ: Frankly, I have no interpretation of that statement at all. And I say that on this background: fl~st,I have known Nelson Rockefeller ineimately for at loant ftsteen ream and perhaps tvsenty years; secondly, I have worked with h2m some when he waa in the Federal Govern- nent, and I esteem him as a frlend. I have no explanation For it at all. fls* I rm. N~Ns: Do you put him in a different category from yourself, Senator? You indicated before, abou* your own plans, that you were reluctant but not inflexible. Do you think he would fa11 into that category? SEIYATOR DIRKSEM: Well, Mr. Novins, I have always disclaimed any real interest in being a Vice Presidential candidate, but I am ready to serve my party and my country. fm. DUFF=: Senator, there is considerable indication thal; Senator Kennedy is certainly a.&rong and perhaps leading contefider for the Democrat1c nomination. Now, in event he . - wins the nomination, do you feel that perhaps the Republicans should nominate a Catholic Tor Vice President, perhaps iabor Secretary KLtchell, or perhaps a Governor? SENATOR DIRKSEN: I have never speculated On this subject because I have never permitted myself to let that thought intvlucle into my thinking at all. MR. DUFFEE: YoLi don ctthink a Catholic as Vice President wouldn't strengthen %he ticket against a Democratic Catholic :?ombee? SERATOR DIRKSEN: Well, it might or mi&% not be. But I always th9nk of a candidate as a citizen of -the United States, and one who, because of the jucigaent of his palgty, is eminently qualified to be a candida- of his party; arid beyond that, I have riot let my speculations go very far. XR. POTTER: Senator, you have said that you are a Reluctant Dragon, and you've noted that Governor Rockefeller is, too. One who is not a Reluctant Dragon is Senator mrry Goldivmter of Arizona, who seems to have considerable support in the South -- South Carolina has endorsed him, Texas has indicated they would like &hi on the ticket. Mould you like to see hfn go on the ticket? Do you think he would be a -- Feally represent the kind of Republicanism you'd like to see on the ticket? - SENATOll DIRITSEN: I've a great affection for Senator Goldwaiier. We work Well togetherj-particularly on the Labor Comft%ee of the Senate, and I esteem him very highly as a very courawxas public sewant, and if the party saw fit to nomfnate &lm, why, that would certainly have my approval. la. DOWN3: SenatOiq, I'd like to get back to this forelm policy question because it's pretty obvious that this is go5.w to be one, if not the major, lasue in the upcomfng campaigns. Now you have indica%ed after the U-2 Incident and the Swnmit Conference that any criticism of the Administration and of the President gersonzlly somehow would weaken our posi ion vis-a-vis the Conmis2;s and somehow might be slightly unpatriotic, Is that true or not? SXNA'170R DZRISSEN: i believe that the essence of my observations, ko'ch. on and off the Senate Floor, was that I thought it was a most appropriate thing not to downgrade our own country. I don't mind criticism. It would be an amazing 1 thlng in a free country if you didn't have it, even when it's directed against the President of the United States.