Interview looks back with John PardoePardoe, Liberal MP for North Cornwall, 1966–79. WhatWhat mightmight havehave beenbeen

he Liberal Party of the ’s and early ’s the recently elected new MP was Margaret was personified by and Jeremy Thatcher. In the ’ election he achieved a signifi- T Thorpe but, of the half-dozen newer MPs cant Liberal vote, remembered thirty years later in who deservedly won important places in the hearts the lady’s memoirs. ‘It was quite a favourable men- of Liberals, two made a particular impact on the tion, much better than I got from Denis Healey, who public at large. was quickly respected, was vitriolic about me’, he recalls with feeling. not just for his skilful piloting of his ground-break- Expecting to fight another election in Finchley, ing Abortion Bill but also as an effective Chief Whip he and his wife Joy had bought a small house in for , while John Pardoe, the towering, Hampstead (an affordable possibility in those days). booming MP for North Cornwall, later become Instead he was offered, and took, the opportunity of equally widely recognised as the party’s economic a much more winnable seat, North Cornwall. The spokesman, and the scourge of Chancellor Denis Pardoes kept on the Hampstead house, where they Healey during the  and  elections and the still live, but felt obliged also to buy a small place in Lib/Lab Pact.. Cornwall. They still own that too. In  it was Pardoe and Steel who fought out In March ’ a triumphant John Pardoe, a tenor the succession to Thorpe in the party’s leadership of fine voice and theatrical leanings, led the singing election. If Pardoe had won, third party politics in on his day of victory – one of thirteen seats won or Britain might have been very different. He did not fa- held for the Liberals on that day. Just four years later vour the Pact – ‘There was nothing in it for us’ – and only six of those MPs survived a disastrous election he says he would have encouraged Roy Jenkins to for the party, but Pardoe was one of them. Immedi- join the Liberals rather than create a separate SDP. He ately he became crucial to the party’s survival. may have lost the leadership argument at the time but ‘In those first few years there were actually only it took the Liberal front bench some years to recover three of us who ever turned up’, he says. ‘Russell was from the unexpected loss of his seat in . off doing his usual Europe- and world-wide bit, John Pardoe’s political career had begun in the ’ Emlyn (Hooson) went back to court and Jo really election, not as a Liberal but as postal votes officer didn’t appear, which left Jeremy, David and me to do for one of the Labour Party’s leading left-wingers, almost everything. With such a small number we Lena Jaeger, the MP for St Pancras. ‘I regarded myself even had a terrible job keeping the Liberal table in as being very much part of the left of the party’, he the House of Commons dining room!’ says. ‘It was my friends who ran up the red flag over Despite these privations their efforts bore fruit in St Pancras Town Hall! But I was unhappy with a clutch of by-election gains during the Heath Gov- Hugh Gaitskell and bitterly disappointed when it ernment, leading to the Liberal high point of more became clear that Nye Bevan was never going to be- than  million votes polled in the February ’ elec- come Labour leader. So really I came to the Liberal tion. The party had still only won twelve seats but, Party thinking that I was moving left. That was en- with no overall majority for anyone, how should tirely due to Jo Grimond. He had changed the Liberals react? whole vision of what Liberalism was about. He had ‘The results fell short of our hopes in terms of set it definitively to the left of centre, indeed in many seats but were nearly as good in terms of votes, and respects left of the left. It was “left” in that curious obviously we were now a power in the land’, says Liberal fashion – you know, co-partnership and Pardoe. ‘I was in North Cornwall when we heard ownership through industrial democracy, not state the outcome and I rang Jeremy immediately, saying ownership.’ that he should find every possible excuse not to go It did not take long for Pardoe to be selected as a up to London for discussions with Heath over the Liberal parliamentary candidate – in Finchley, where weekend. I told him that all hell would break loose if

16 Journal of Liberal Democrat History 36 Autumn 2002 he did. And, when I was interviewed ‘The press were pretty vitriolic, hav- for the national news that night, I said ing set us up as a choice between the firmly that I had known Jeremy for Radical v. the Other or the Left v. the years and that there would be no deal.’ Right. There was some truth in that but Nevertheless Jeremy Thorpe did it was not particularly helpful.’ When soon go and see Heath. There was a the election was over the two candi- major party outcry, but, as Pardoe had dates buried their differences and gen- predicted three days before, no deal was erally worked well together, but the re- ever done. ‘I had rather set the cat lationship was put under strain by among the pigeons but there wasn’t David Steel’s enthusiasm for a Lib/Lab anything Heath could offer’ he says. Pact, designed to keep Thatcher’s Tories ‘The mathematics didn’t add up. Our out of power. two parties did not amount to a major- ‘That wasn’t a happy situation ei- ity. We would have had to do a deal ther’, says Pardoe ‘but again we were with the Northern Ireland MPs. In any more or less set up to have that kind of case Heath had not even thought for a continuing row. David Steel had for- moment about PR, not even a Com- mulated the view years before that the mission. It was never on.’ future of the party lay in some kind of Deal or no deal, Pardoe feels that op- deal with Labour moderates. That was come we got nothing from it. That was portunities were then lost between the not my view of the realignment of the the tragedy and, in the event, that was two elections. ‘I didn’t know at that time left. He and I had both come into the the perception of the press and the out- why Jeremy seemed not to have any idea party attracted by Jo’s ideas of realign- side world.’ Did any MPs actually vote what to do with the situation we had ment, but his view was very much, not against the Pact? ‘Yes. Jo Grimond. I created in February. I know now that it that it would be the Liberal Party that think he was the only one.’ Why Jo? was a lot to do with the personal pres- would become the realignment of the Did he not favour realignment? ‘Not of sures that were building on him, but I left, but that we would have to do a that sort. He and I both believed in rea- didn’t know that then and I kept going deal, as junior partners, with people in lignment through the Liberal Party’, to him saying “Come on, Jeremy. The the Labour Party. I did not agree with says Pardoe. And if there hadn’t been a goal’s open. We’ve got to do something.” that but I followed his line because we Pact? ‘There would have been a general In the end nothing really happened un- had to sink or swim together.’ election and I believe we would have til the amazing hovercraft tour, and that ‘It became perfectly clear at the out- done better in it that we did two years was a bit of a disaster. I don’t actually set of those negotiations that David was later in .’ think that Jeremy had his mind on the going to be the good guy as far as La- Improbably Pardoe does not blame job, for reasons that are obvious now, but bour was concerned. He was absolutely the Pact but the leadership election for the tragic thing is that the outcome in determined to make the Pact work at the surprising loss of his seat. ‘I think October was a great disappointment.’ the expense of actually achieving any- North Cornwall expected me to win The personal pressures to which thing about which Liberals could say the leadership. They certainly voted for Pardoe refers led later to Jeremy “look what we have done”. I took the me in vast numbers but, when I didn’t Thorpe’s resignation and Pardoe’s battle view that my voters and party members win, the comment the press had made with David Steel in the ensuing, rather needed something to assure them that about me then and during the general bad-tempered, leadership election – re- we had got something other than just election rebounded. That’s the main membered by many Liberals for an un- the chance of saving our seats.’ reason why I lost.’ warranted suggestion that Pardoe wore ‘I have always taken the view that, Now out of Parliament, Pardoe de- a hairpiece. Did he enjoy the contest? unless it becomes very, very large, prob- cided to turn to making money in busi- ‘No.’ Did he ever think he was going to ably number two in terms of seats, the ness and the media. For two years he win? ‘I suppose I did for perhaps the party cannot enter into any arrange- hosted a Sunday programme about tel- first week, but the problem that re- ment with another party safely without evision for London Weekend. ‘But peo- search soon made very clear was that the absolute certainty that the next ple like Ian Trethowan advised me not to David was much better known than I general election will be fought on PR. get too involved in television because of was. However, later there was an inter- Otherwise you are opting for total dis- the difficulties of getting long-term esting statistical aberration. Analysis by aster. And the problem with any other work, he says. ‘So, at the same time, when Michael Steed indicated that the ma- form of alliance is that it is likely to be a I was lucky enough to be offered the jority of party activists and people who centrist compromise.’ managing directorship of Sight & voted after attending election meetings ‘There had been a moment in the Sound, a staff and computer training voted for me, while the vast majority of early Pact negotiations when some company, I accepted the job.’ And he re- members who stayed at home and read form of PR might have been consid- mained in it until  when the com- newspapers or watched us on the tel- ered, not proposed by Callaghan but pany received ‘an offer we couldn’t evision gave their votes to David.’ pushed for by me, but in the final out- refuse’ from the Davy Corporation. He

Journal of Liberal Democrat History 36 Autumn 2002 17 agreed to remain involved for a further ‘Because David Steel was a Social cannot put the Liberal Party’s head in a two years, deciding to retire for good in Democrat. He had always been one. He noose unless you are absolutely sure . came from that tradition, but I had that you have PR in your grasp.’ In the ’s he made two further for- never had a strong feeling for Social And would the SDP have happened ays into politics. Very shortly before the Democracy. We used to view Social either? ‘I wouldn’t have thought so. I ’ election David Steel asked him to Democrats as the great white soft un- don’t know whether it is true, as David join the first Liberal/SDP Alliance derbelly of the Labour Party.’ So what Owen alleges, that over dinner David campaign committee. ‘The only prob- was Owen? ‘A very curious creature. Steel persuaded Roy Jenkins not to join lem with that one was the mess as to Clearly not wet through, but from a the Liberals and to start his own party, who was actually leader’, he says. ‘David very different strand of Social Democ- with a view to siphoning off Labour was chairman of the campaign and was racy.’ But very much from the right of MPs and later merging, but I doubt if expected by Liberals to be the front Labour and to the right of the Social Roy would have come to dinner with man but the press kept asking Roy Democrats? ‘Oh, yes. As I say, I never me. I do know that, if he had, I would questions. To say the least that led to a felt much for Social Democracy.’ But have encouraged him to join us. It lot of contradictions, which I was sup- given that he had a strong feeling for would have been a very different Lib- posed to sort out. I may have been al- Liberalism, surely he wouldn’t describe eral Party, and it might not have been most the only person in England at the Owen as a Grimondian Liberal? ‘No, any more successful, but it would cer- time with a mobile telephone but that no, no. Not at all,’ he says quickly. ‘And I tainly have been different.’ was not enough. The results of the elec- disagreed with him on defence, but we Finally, how much of the Grimond tion were not as good as we had hoped.’ got on well personally.’ legacy did he see in the Liberal Demo- Pardoe had not expected to con- If Pardoe had been around during crats of today? Was the party closer to tinue in this role, but it was not long the merger negotiations, would he have the Grimond left of centre than the Al- before he was approached again, this voted for merger? ‘No. The ’ election liance had been? ‘Yes, but the Liberal time jointly by Steel and David Owen, was my most searing political experi- Democrats have to be careful to be left who asked him to chair the committee ence and, to my horror, I discovered but not Labour left. Jo didn’t believe, for the next election. They wanted him during it just how much most Liberals and nor do I, that you can ever really to plan the campaign and, particularly, hated David Owen and most Social win, or achieve electoral satisfaction by to chair the press conferences with Democrats, and wanted to screw their simply putting more money into public both of them present. This was sup- necks.’ By merging or not merging services – health, education, whatever. posed to avoid the confusions of the with them? ‘Preferably by not merging You will never be able to prove, or per- previous election. ‘I know I was asked with them.’ But didn’t some Liberals see suade electors, that what you have spent because I was the only Liberal that merger and absorption as the way to do has made their service better. That’s the David Owen could bear’, he says. ‘And I it? For once uncertain of his answer, shared fallacy of some Liberal Demo- was the only Liberal who could bear Pardoe pauses and casts his mind back crats and members of the government.’ David Owen. Of course it never really to the ’s. ‘Look, Adrian, you’ve got Pardoe has played no part in politics worked out the way they wanted.’ the problem here that, if I had been for fifteen years. At , he remains the Politically, did he feel more in tune leader, the Pact would never have hap- energetic radical he always was, but with Owen or Steel? ‘Oh, Owen.’ Why? pened for the simple reason that you spends his time reading, walking all over the world, going to the theatre, doing home improvements and, very deliberately, not reading a daily news- paper or watching television news. ‘And nor should any politician,’ he says somewhat provocatively. He keeps up with current affairs through the Sunday newspapers, the occasional weekly newspaper and radio. It appears to be enough to keep his political views firmly intact.

Adrian Slade was the last President of the Liberal Party before merger with the SDP in . He was elected to the Greater London Council in  and led the Alliance group on the GLC until abolition. A shorter ver- sion of this interview was first published in Liberal Democrat News in July .

18 Journal of Liberal Democrat History 36 Autumn 2002