Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 22 MARCH 1977

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

2500 Ministerial Statement [22 MARCH 1977] Committee of Privileges

TUESDAY, 22 MARCH 1977 symbol withdrawn because eggs sampled at a number of retail outlets were found to be far below the standards prescribed for qua­ Mr. ACTING SPEAKER (Mr. W. D. lity and weight in the regulations under the Hewitt, Chatsworth) read prayers and took Poultry Industry Act. the chair at 11 a.m. My department has warned this firm on two occasions in the last 12 months about ACTING CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES supplying poor quality, underweight eggs to Queensland consumers. The first warning NOMINATION OF MR. W. M. GUNN was given on 28 April 1976, and the final Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Honourable warning on 23 December of the same year. members, I have to inform the House that The firm was given 21 days from the I nominate Mr. W. M. Gunn, Temporary date of the last warning to effect the neces­ Chairman, to act in the office of Chairman sary improvements. When eggs were again of Committees during the absence of Mr. checked 25 days later, the situation had not Speaker. improved; in fact, it had worsened. Eggs were sampled from 15 stores supplied by Egg and I. All of the eggs sampled were graded PAPERS second quality because of extreme staleness -indicated by watery whites and enlarged The following papers were laid on the air cells-or because of soiling, staining, table:- cracking or weakness of the shells. Every Order in Council under the Harbours Act sample contained underweight eggs and, in 1955-1976. many cases, more than 50 per cent of the Regulation under the Mental Health Act eggs in the sample were underweight. 1974. Not only were consumers being sold short on weight but they were, in fact, paying around $1 per dozen for eggs which were MINISTERIAL STATEMENT marked as being first quality but were worth EGG AND l PTY. LTD.; WITHDRAWAL OF no more than 35c per dozen as second­ IDENTIFICATION SYMBOL quality eggs. It was obvious that positive action was required to stop the further sale Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Oonda1:nine­ of these eggs in Queensland. Being satisfied Minister for Primary Industries) ( 11.3 that adequate warning had been given to the a.m.): A number of reports have appeared firm in question, I approved the withdrawal in the media, and on television, during the of the egg-marking symbol "ZAC" which past few days relating to the withdrawal of had allowed Egg and I Pty. Ltd. to market the identification symbol from a Tweed eggs in the prescribed areas of Queensland. Heads firm selling eggs into prescribed areas The principal of the firm has referred to of Queensland. The principal of this firm the unemployment that my decision may claims that he has been unfairly treated by cause. If he had been really concerned my department and that he was not given about his employees' jobs, surely he would sufficient warning before action was taken have taken urgent action to put fresh, clean against him. eggs, properly graded for weight, on the Over the last 12-18 months, the egg Queensland market. I should add that an industry in South Queensland has imple­ alternative market is available to him through mented a campaign to ensure that top­ the New South Wales Egg Board. quality eggs are supplied to the consuming There is nothing to prevent this firm from public. All producers are required to meet applying again for an identification symbol quality standards prescribed in the regula­ to put eggs on the Queensland market. tions, and this has involved many of them Should the firm make written application to in considerable expense. my department for the issue of a new symbol, The Egg Marketing Board has done its consideration will be given to this application part by instituting new handling procedures provided I can be convinced that the require­ which cut down the delay between farmer ments of the marking and grading regulations and consumer. It also has taken the major will be fully complied with in future. step of stamping egg cartons with a "use by" date, which clearly indicates to the consumer COMMITTEE OF PRIVILEGES and retailer the period during which egg quality can be expected to remain at an COMPULSORY LEVIES ON SALARIES OF acceptable level. CERTAIN PARLIAMENTARIANS The benefit of these measures to the con­ Mr. AHERN (Landsborough) (11.8 a.m.): sumer is a supply of eggs of good quality, I ·lay on the table of the House the report properly graded for weight. Egg producers of the Privileges Committee relating to the also realise the potential benefits of keeping matter raised on 9 November 1976 by the consumers happy with their product. honourable member for Bundaberg and Against this background, we have the case referred to the committee on 10 November. of Egg and I Pty. Ltd., the Tweed Heads Whereupon the honourable member laid poultry farm which has had its identification the report on the table. Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice 2501

QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE ( 4) How many members of the board's staff have resigned since its inception, what 1. ACQUISITION OF WOONGOOLBA LANDS are their names, what positions did they BY ALBERT SHIRE COUNCIL hold and what were their reasons for Mr. Burns, pursuant to notice, asked the resigning? Minister for Local Government and Main Roads- Answers:- Has the Albert Shire Council met fully (1) Mr. Joseph Stanley Box (Chair­ the requirements of the special Act which man); Mr. Henry Jardine Parkinson; Mr. this Parliament passed last year concerning John Allan Stewart Pidgeon; Mr. Thomas the right of securing lands at Woongoolba William Chard. and, if not, what provisions have not been (2) Three. Mr. C. Bushell on 12 March met and what action has been taken to see 1973; Mr. K. D. Morris on 9 December that the council observes the law? 1974; Sir David Nicholson on 15 Decem­ Answer:- ber 1976. (3) Mr. Bushe!l, deceased; Mr. Morris, The honourable member's question resigned for personal reasons; Sir David involves a legal interpretation, and accord­ Nicholson, retired, having attained the ingly I consider it would be inappropriate age of retirement required of members for me to comment thereon. on Government boards. ( 4) I lay upon the table of the House 2. BUILDERS' REGISTRATION BOARD the information sought by the honourable Mr. Bums, pursuant to notice, asked the member, as it is rather lengthy. It may Minister for Works and Housing- be included in "Hansard" if he wishes. ( 1) Who are the existing members of Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Is it the V

Name of Employee Dates Employed Reason for Resignation Position Held Allom, Vicki 18-2-74-- 28-6--74 Travelling Clerk-Typist Amies, John Lowell 28-8-72- 7-1-74 No reason Senior Building Inspector Beattie, Anne 5-12-75- 14-5-76 · Travelling Clerk-Typist Beckman, Kathryn .. 19-11-73- 27-9-74 No reason Clerk-Typist Bould, Bronwyn 26--5-75- 30--6--75 Services terminated Clerk-Typist Bligh, Carolyn 8-7-74-- 31-1-75 No reason Clerk-Typist Dempsey, Kathleen . , 27-4-76-- 24-9-76 Travelling . . Clerk-Typist Desmier, Jennifer 10--10--73-19-10-73 No reason . . Clerk-Typist Feltham, Karen 16--9-74-- 1-10--76 Travelling Stenographer Griffiths, Diana 6--1-75-10--12-76 Husband transferred Clerk Grosvenor, Patrick 7-1-74--28-11-75 No reason Building Inspector Harris, Pamela Mary 18-9-72- 7-6--74 Travelling . . Stenographer Heffernan, Wendy .. 7-1-74-- 16--5-75 No reason . . Clerk-Typist Hicks, Kathleen 29-3-76-- 13-5-76 Illness Clerk-Typist Houghton, Barbara .. 2-5-73- 30--5-75 To take up home duties Finance Clerk Lancaster, Robyn 16-4-73-11-10-74 To take up home duties Administration Clerk Lusk, Julie 12-5-75- 5-12-75 Personal Clerk-Typist McLeod, Janice 7-8-72- 27-6--73 Dissatisfied with salary Secretary Morris, Patricia 19-11-73-24-12-73 To take up new position Stenographer Nelkie, Cherie 7-1-74-- 11-4-74 To take up new position Clerk-Typist Palazzi, Karen 30-4-73- 13-7-73 Travelling Clerk-Typist Palazzi, Karen 29-4-74-- 2-4-76 Home duties Clerk-Typist Parker, Helen 18-6--74-- 10-7-74 No reason . . Clerk-Typist Pierpoint, Maureen .. 26--8-74--10-12-76 To take up part-time work Administration Clerk Stott, Helen .. 9-7-73-14-12-73 Medical reasons .. Clerk-Typist 1 Tate, Joanne 22-4-74-- 1-5-74 Illness in family .. 1 Stenographer Trotman, Elaine 10-6-74- 9-1-76 No reason . . . ·1· Stenographer Welsh, Frederick 7-1-74-- 4-3-77 Returned to Darwin . . Bui~ding Irspector Wheatley, Sherral 17-9-73-24-10-73 No reason ...... Clerk-Typ,st Whiteman, Bruce John 3-9-73- 21-1-77 Returned to Sydney .. I Building Inspector Young, Roland 21-10-74--12-11-76 To take up position elsewhere Building Inspector I I 2502 Questions Upon Notice (22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice

3. RESTRICTIONS ON UsE OF URBAN (b) Rev. Wayne Sanderson-who WATER SUPPLIES FOR RECREATION spoke on the work of Life Line. Dr. Scott-Young, pursuant to notice, asked (c) Dr. Ian Hills-Psychology Depart­ the Minister for Water Resources- ment, James Cook University, who spoke on "What employers expect of you". As this State has now had a recent case of cholera (El Tor strain) attributable to (d) Mr. Perkins-probation officer, water from the Albert River and a previous whose topic was concerned with his severe outbreak of hepatitis in Mt. I1sa work and the law as it concerns young attributable to water from Lake Moondara, people. will he consider legislation to prevent the (e) Miss L. Rooney-social worker, pollution of our urban water supplies by Commonwealth Department of Health, prohibiting their use as recreational areas who spoke on her work at schools and and so prohibiting boating, swimming and on community service. picnicking in these areas? (f) Mr. Wells-Townsville Environ­ mental Committee, whose subject was Answer:- pollution. The question as to whether boating, It is common and accepted policy in swimming and other recreational activities schools that reputable persons from the should: be prohibited on storages con­ community at large be invited to speak to structed solely for town water supply pur­ students on topics such as those associated poses is one for determination by the with their course of study, on career local authority owning the particular opportunities and conditions of employ­ storage in conjunction with the Local ment, on community welfare organisations Government and Health Departments. and topics of a similar nature. It is my understanding that all of the above lec­ In regard to storages controlled by the turers were invited by the school to address Irrigation and Water Supply Commission, students. only a small proporti9n of the water (2) It would be a retrograde step in available from these is used for urban education to deny students the opportunity purposes. The water is mainly used for of having addresses on suitable topics given irrigation, industrial and mining purposes to them at school by citizens of good and the need to ban recreational activities repute. I do not therefore intend to on these storages is considered unwarran­ eliminate this community service. Of the ted. topics listed in (1 ), pollution is the only My colleague the Minister for Health one of a controversial nature. With sub­ recently stated that the use of reservoirs jects such as this I would expect the and other domestic storage areas for school to ensure that a balanced coverage aquatic sports would be reviewed follow­ is given to the students. ing the recent Beenleigh cholera case. (3) Lecturers at Heatley High School gave freely of their time, and no costs of any kind were incurred. 4. EXTRA-CURRICULAR LECTURES AT HEATLEY HIGH SCHOOL Dr. Scott-Young, pursuant to notice, asked 5. Q.R.X. DEPOT AT MAREEBA the Minister for Education and Cultural JV[r. Armstrong, pursuant to notice, asked Activities- the Minister for Transport- ( 1) Has he been informed that extra­ ( 1) With reference to the rail service to curricular lectures are being delivered at Atherton, is he aware that Q.R.X. is pur­ Heatley High School, allegedly on a ported to be setting up a depot at Mareeba bipartisan basis, by people who are in no for the purpose of supplying goods to way connected with the educational system? Atherton and Ravenshoe and, if so, as (2) If so, will they be allowed to con­ people in these areas fear that loss of tinue in their present undesirable form or revenue may cause the line to be closed, will arrangements be made for the opposite what effect will this have on the revenue side of the question to be put to the students and future life of the line? or will they be eliminated altogether? (2) What is the relationship between (3) Who pays for the cost of transporta­ Q.R.X. and the Railway Department? tion, accommodation, etc., for these Com­ (3) Will he give favourable considera­ munist and curious lecturers to enable them tion to extending the same concession to to deliver their tirades? Atherton and other Tableland centres as applies in Mareeba and elsewhere in Answers:- Queensland with forwarding agents for con­ (1) Lectures have been given at Heatley tract wagons? State High School during this year by the following speakers:- Answers:- (a) Mrs. Stedman-Marriage Guidance (!) No, but the forwarding agents Council, who spoke on the work of operating a rail service to Mareeba are the council. permitted to deliver by road within a Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice 2503

radius of 25 miles of that station and this (3) As some people incorrectly believe applies at all other centres to which bulk­ that scabies does not require special loading services are provided. medical treatment and that it will eventu­ (2) Queensland Railfast Express Pty. ally go away of its own accord and as some Limited is one of the four forwarding treatments, for example, as suggested by the agents operating bulk-loading door-to-door Encyclopaedia Brittanica, are no longer services by rail to various northern accepted medically, will he have pamphlets centres. on the disease produced for distribution through schools, community health centres (3) Applications for bulk-loading services and other medical institutions? to Atherton are being examined at present. Answer:- (1 to 3) Scabies is not a notifiable 6. Ex GRATIA PAYMENTS TO VICTIMS OF disease and consequently information on VIOLENT CRIMES the number of cases occurring in the Mr. Wright, pursuant to notice, asked the various institutions and hospitals is not Minister for Justice and Attorney-General- collated. ( 1) How many claims for ex gratia pay­ The Division of Health Education has ments have been made by innocent victims produced a pamphlet regarding scabies of violent crimes since the scheme was for the information of the public. This introduced in 1968? was first produced in 1973 and has been (2) How many of the claims have been distributed through maternal and child (a) successful or (b) denied and (c) how health clinics, local authorities, State many are still under consideration? schools, community health centres, doctors (3) What is (a) the total compensation in the metropolitan area and to the general paid, (b) the lowest individual payment public. It has also been distributed to made and (c) the highest individual pay­ Teachers' Training Colleges and the Kin­ ment made? dergarten Training College for training teachers in the recognition of human ( 4) What is the average time for a parasitic infection. claim to be processed to the point of a decision being made? (5) As financial assistance is usually 8. RAILWAY IMPROVEMENTS, needed most by the victim immediately ROCKHAMPTON after the incident, will he consider ways Mr. Wright, pursuant to notice, asked the and means of making this possible in order Minister for Transport- to alleviate undue hardship? ( 1) With reference to the Denison Street Answers:- railway line, Rockhampton, and in view of the recent agitation for its removal, when (1) 89. will this important project be undertaken? (2) (a) 35. (b) 34. In addition 10 (2) Will he give serious consideration claims were subsequently withdrawn by to the installation of railway traffic lights the applicants. (c) 10. at the major intersections along the line (3) (a) $38,025.00. (b) $200.00. (c) as an interim measure in order to alleviate $4,000.00. the present requirement of having to stop (4) Three months. before crossing the line, which is con­ sidered to be unwarranted because of the (5) The procedure involved has been limited number of trains which use the line? simplified where possible. It is essential for all relevant information to be obtained (3) What is the latest estimated cost before the Governor in Council can make of (a) removing the line, (b) re-routing the a decision and this information is not line, (c) constructing a new rail bridge always readily available. across the Fitzroy River and (d) installing railway traffic lights at Derby, William, Denham, Fitzroy and Archer Streets? 7. SCABIES Answers:- Mr. Wrigbt, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Health- ( I) As the honourable member has been previously advised, the Railway Depart­ ( 1) Is he aware that concern has been ment has not formulated any definite plans expressed by members of the medical pro­ for the carrying out of this major project. fession that the infectious disease scabies is on the increase throughout Queensland, (2) The practicability of adopting this Australia and the world? proposal will be thoroughly investigated. (2) During the last 12 months, how (3) A detailed investigation essential to many cases of scabies have been reported the production of an estimate of cost has in Government institutions administered by not been undertaken, but, as I have pre­ his department or under the school health viously stated, an outlay of many millions scheme? of dollars would be involved. 2504 Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice

9. OVERCROWDING AT MAREEBA AND my department. An officer from Towns­ YORKEY's KNOB STATE SCHOOLS ville visited Mossman on Friday, 18 March, with a view to inspecting certain accommo­ Mr. Tenni, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Education and Cultural Activ­ dation to cater for the overflow at the ities- existing pre-school. It is hoped that the matter will be able to be resolved in the ( 1) Is he aware of the overcrowding at very near future. the Mareeba State Primary School and at the Yorkey's Knob State School? 11. TRAFFIC CONTROL ON NORTH SIDE OF (2) What action is being taken to over­ BARRON RIVER DURING FLOOD come this immediate problem? Mr. Tenni, pursuant to notice, asked the ( 3) Jf no action is being taken, will Minister for Police- action be commenced immediately? ( 1) ·Is he aware that no police officer Answers:- or car was placed on the northern side of the Barron River to control traffic and any (l) I am aware that increased enrolments other problems which may have arisen when are taxing the accommodation at the State the area recently became flood-bound? schools at Mareeba and Yorkey's Knob. (2) Will he give an assurance that this (2 and 3) Appropriate action, however, will be automatic in any future flooding is being taken in each case. Provision has problems in this area? been made in the draft primary capital works programme for the erecting of a Answers:- replacement primary school at Yorkey's (!) Four police officers from Cairns who Knob. This school will be larger than the resided on the northern side of the Barron present school and will cater for projected River performed duty in the areas in future enrolments. To relieve the situa­ which they resided, with the authority of tion until the replacement school is built, the Inspector of Police, Cairns. In so far the Department of Works has been as the police officer who performed duty requested to supply a demountable build­ at Machan's Beach is concerned, residents ing at the present school. of the area and members of the State Provision has been made on the priority Emergency Service have passed most com­ list for libraries for a new library at plimentary remarks on his efforts during Mareeba State School. This will free for the flood. teaching use the two classrooms that are (2) The Inspector of Police, Cairns, has at present being used as a library. The intimated that on future occasions when Department of \Vorks has been requested he considers it warranted, a radio-equipped to provide four new teaching spaces to vehicle will be allocated to the northern replace temporary classrooms. side of the Barron River.

10. PRE-SCHOOLS, FRESHWATER, CLIFTON 12. CONTROL OF PARTHENIUM WEED BEACH AND MoSSMAN Mr. LeSiter, pursuant to notice, asked the Mr. Tenni, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Lands, Forestry, National Parks Minister for Education and Cultural Activ­ and Wildlife Service- ities- ( 1) What are the latest moves to help ( 1) When will the pre-schools at Fresh­ control the spread of parthenium weed in water and Clifton Beach be constructed? Queensland? (2) What action is being given to in­ (2) Is the Commonwealth offering any creasing the capacity of the pre-school at worth-while help through the C.S.I.R.O.? Mossman to allow all the avarlable child­ (3) What impressions did he gain on ren to attend? the problem while in my area recently? Answers:- Answer:- (1) It is hoped that a start may be made (1 to 3) The current con~ro.! programme on the proposed pre-school at Freshwater by which local authorities al.lld land­ in 1977-78 subject to the availability of holders are being assisted is designed to funds and the finalisation of a land acquisi­ curb spread of parthenium weed by spray tion. With regard to C!ifton Beach, nego­ treatment of small isolated infestations tiations to obtain a site for a new primary and such infestations on properties and school have fallen through and a fresh roadsides from which seed cookl be tram;­ start is being instituted. Once the site for ported by vehicular and stock movements. the primary school has been secured, a Furmal measures to secure entry into pre-school will be provided as quickly as Brazil of an officer of the Sir Alan Fletcher possible on this site. Research Station are wdl advanced and (2) Following representations from the it is expected that his investi,gations into honourable member for Barron River, biological contwl will begin in that country investigations were instituted by officers of in June next. Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice 2505

The C.S.I.R.O. has maJde phytotron Similar detailed scientific investigations space available and has assigned a plant are being carried out all over the world physicist and an assistant to research into the Sudden Infant Death Syndrome :parthenium weed. I uruderstand certain and several international meetings have trials in the phytotron have been com­ been held. As yet no real solution to pleted and that a repo[·t from the the cause of the syndrome has been found. C.S.I.R.O. will be received in the very near future. As in any disease when the cause is My recent visit to the inrfested areas undetermined, innumerable theories of the central highlands confirmed my abound. Each is evaluated with care. Many earlier impressions that while the applica­ can be discarded and others are carefully tion of herbicides must continue as a studied. contaiilJlllent exercise, a solution to the O'Verrull pwblem depends on evolvement One of the main problems associated orf a practical and effective means of treat­ with Sudden Infant Death Syndrome is ment. We are still searching rfor that the emotional stress in the parents. This so~ution. was realised in Brisbane very early in our association with the syndrome. As a result as soon as possible after the death a social worker visits the bereaved parents 13. PRE-SCHOOL FOR ALPHA to provide information and counselling. Mr. Lester, pursuant to notice, .asked the This service has been provided for more Minister for Education and Cultural than 15 years in Brisbane. It has done Activities-- much to alleviate the sense of guilt in the parents and to provide reassurance What can >be done to institute pre-school that the death is unpredictable, the result facilities in Alpha? of a natural cause and not due to neglect. Answer:- The State Health Department was the first to introduce such a counselling service I thank the honourable member !for his in Australia. continued interest in the education of the young people in his area and lfor the manner in which he pursues these matters. I would now advise him thwt it is pro­ 15. USE OF N.S.W. TIMBER FOR NORTI! visionally planned to construct a pre­ QUEENSLAND HOUSES school at Alpha in 1978. Of course, its Mr. M. D. Hooper, pursuant to notice, construction will be subject to the avail­ asked the Minister for Works and Housing- ability of the necessary funds. Cl) In an effort to protect the 'Viability of North Queensland sawmillers, who have 14. COT DEATIIS had to retrench staff because of competi­ tion from ·low-cost imported timbers, I ·Mr. Lester, pursuant to notice, asked the requested him in 1976 to direct that all Minister for Health- houses built for any Government depart­ What are the latest scientific inquiries ment should be erected with Queensland undertaken by the Government into the timbers only. Although he was not prepared increase in, and mysterious circumstances to agree to my proposal at that time, is he surrounding, cot deaths, which are causing now aware that a Brisbane-based building heart-break to many young families? contractor, Peter Kurts, can erect a timber frame for a house in Townsville Answer:- $600 cheaper by using imported New South Cot deaths (or, as they are now referred Wales timber as against northern and to, the Sudden Infant Death Syndrome) southern Queensland hardwoods? occur and have occurred regularly in all communities. (2) Will he in'Vestigate how this anomaly Originally these deaths were attributed comes 3!bout and take some steps to pro­ to suffocation but not since 1945. The inves­ tect the Queensland timber industry gen­ tigation of these deaths has been intense erally before all northern builders are both in Queensland and elsewhere. The forced to buy New South Wales hardwood pathologists on the staff of the State Health in order to compete with southern build­ Laboratory working at the Institute of ers? Forensic Pathology investigate each death with the utmost care. Answer:- A full autopsy is carried out and in (1 and 2) The construction departments addition microscopic examination of the in my portfolio follow Cabinet policy on tissues as well as bacteriological, serological the use of local timber. The question and virological investigations are made. should be directed to my colleague the A large volume of scientific information has been accumulated. A paper concern­ Honourable K. B. Tomkins, M.L.A., ing cot deaths in Brisbane was published Minister for Lands, Forestry, National in 1966 by Dr. O'Reilly, the Deputy Parks and Wildlife Service, who is respon­ Director of the State Health Laboratory. sible for timber-usage policy in this State. 2506 Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice

16. TOWNSVILLE FISH BOARD recommendations of the drainage report Mr. M. D. Hooper, pursuant to notice, compiled by Gutteridge, Haskins and asked the Minister for Aboriginal and Davey? Islanders Advancement and Fisheries- (3) What was the cost of the report ( 1) What action does he intend to pro­ and what are the estimated costs of vide adequate wharf facilities adjacent to carrying out the drainage work in all the the new Fish Board depot on the Ross various mill areas? River? Answers:- (2) Is he aware of recent statements (!) The overview study of drainage in ''The Townsville Daily Bulletin" that problems in the northern sugar region the new Fish Board may be a white recently carried out by Gutteridge, Has­ elephant because increased handling charges kins and Davey, on behalf of the Irri­ could send professional fishermen broke, gation and Water Supply Commission, and of inflammatory statements by Mr. has shown a to.tal of some 40 000 hectares Keith Bryson, a professional fisherman, of currently assigned caneland could that some fishermen could be tempted to benefit to varying extents by drainage. engage in smuggling and other illegal activities in order to earn a decent Jiving? (2} Copies of the drainage report have been made available to interested parties (3) Will he assure the professional and organisations, and discussions between fishermen based in Townsville that steps these parties and ~he Irrigation and Water are being taken to offer greater protection Supply Commission are now being held. to the industry? While Vhe drainage study examined Answers:- aspects of local drainage, a review of flood mitigation required to supplement (1) Vessel-unloading facilities at the local area drainage was essential to obtain new Ross River depot will be a priority the complete picture regarding problems in item in Vhe Queensland Fish Board loan the region. works programme for 1977-78. Gutteridge, Haskins and Davey are (2) I am aware of recent statements expected to complete a further report on attributed .to Mr. Bryson but I am con­ flood mitigation aspects by mid-April fident that no worth-while fisherman will 1977. Copies of this report will also be need to resort to such activities in order made available to interes•ted organisations to earn a decent living and equally certain for comment and discussion. Following .that no reputable fisherman would do so. these discussions, the Irrigation and Water As an interim measure it will be necess­ Supply Commission will prepare an overall ary to transport product by road from report for submission to Cabinet for con­ the Flinders Street wharf to the new Ross sideration and determination of possible River depot until the new unloading facil­ future action. ities are com;truoted at Ross River and (3) Com of ,the drainage study amounted a dredged access channel provided. to $71 000 and estimated cost of the flood­ mitigation study is $35,000. Estimated The additional costs will affect the Fish capi·tal cost of actual drainage works Board's overall profitability but should be within the northern sugar areas has been offset by greater volume of throughput. estimated to be some $9,500,000 with an In any case, they will have to be absorbed annual maintenance cost, excluding inter­ by the board and are most unlikely •to send est and redemption, of some $650,000. any professional fishermen "broke" or for •that matter seriously affect any incomes. (3} The special problems facing pro­ 18. DAMAGE TO JOHN Row BRIDGE, fessional fishermen based at Townsville lNGHAM will be given every consideration and Mr. Row, pursuant to notice, asked the appropriate protective measures imple­ Minister for Local Government and Main mented where necessary and practical. Roads- Will he arrange for an investigation to be carried out, in conjunction with that 17. DRAINAGE OF SUGAR-CANE LANDS of the Irrigation and Water Supply Com­ Mr. Casey, pursuant to notice, asked the mission, into recent damage to the John Minister for Water Resources- Row Bridge at Ingham with a view to ( 1) Is he aware that the present big modifying the structure, if necessary, in wet season in North Queensland has high­ order to prevent further damage to adjoin­ lighted the fact that, of the currently ing property by the diversion of flood­ assigned cane lands in that area, 40 per waters, which was apparently caused by cent requires drainage improvement? the structural factors of the bridge? (2) As the proper provision of drainage Answer:- is the only way in which some mill areas The major damage to the John Row can attain productivity increases, what Bridge at Ingham was a draw-down slip action is being taken to implement the at the southern abutment similar to many Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice 2507

which occurred in the Herbert River fol­ Answer:- lowing the recent high flood. Restoration I would refer the honourable member work to allow movement of traffic has to the answer given by me in the House already been completed and further work on Wednesday last, 16 March 1977, to a will be undertaken with the objective of question from the honourable member for avoiding a repetition of this mode of Archerfield, which I quote:- failure. "I understand that similar levies are A separate and totally unrelated issue is imposed in other States and in one par­ the question of the effect which the bridge ticular instance at a higher level than may have had in diverting floodwaters that applicable to Queensland Perman­ onto adjoining properties. Such matters ent Building Society". are taken into consideration during the The honourable member will note that I planning and design stages for bridges did not indicate that any other society in such as this, and in this case it was con­ Queensland had adopted the policy of cluded that any such effects would be imposing a levy on loan repayments more negligible. than two months in arrears. Following the recent high flood, depart­ It is unfortunate that the article in "The mental officers have already been in consul­ Courier-Mail" of 17 March 1977 inferred tation with the shire engineer to arrange that I had informed the House that other for the collection of flood level information societies in Queensland had introduced in this location. They will also liaise with this levy. This is not what I had said and officers of the Irrigation and Water Supply I refer the honourable member again to Commission investigating aspects of dam­ my reply, which was also quoted in this age caused by the recent flood. Until these same article. investigations are completed, any comment I might make on possible remedial meas­ ures would be meaningless. 21. FLOOD RUN-OFF FROM INGHAM- TuLLY AREA

19. QUALITY OF MOTOR SPIRIT Mr. Ahem for Mr. Katter, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Water Mr. Row, pursuant to notice, asked the Resources- Minister for Industrial Development, Labour (1) Have any studies been done with Relations and Consumer Affairs- a view to harnessing the huge flood What tests are applied to motor spirit run-off from the Ingham-Tully area with retailed in Queensland to ensure that it a view to using it to water the fertile complies with the octane rating and purity Flinders River Basin and/or the Upper required by law? Burdekin and, if not, will he commission such a study immediately? Answer:- (2) From where may these studies be Refiners of motor spirit exercise their obtained and what were the relevant com­ own quality control to ensure that motor mittees' recommendations? spirit produced by them is of a certain (3) Is he aware of the cost of the octane rating. It would, of course, be com­ annual floods in the above area and of petent for the Commonwealth Government, the droughts in the inland, that the through the Trade Practices Act, to make Tennessee Valley Authority in the United mandatory throughout Australia standards States of America undertook its projects for octane rating and purity of motor spirit. with unemployed labour during the great This is a more desirable approach than depression and that such labour pools individual action by a State in view of now exist in North Queensland? the fact that not all motor spirit retailed in a State would be refined in that State. Answers:- (1) A tentative proposal was put forward 20. BUILDING SOCIETIES' LEVY ON in 1938 by the late Dr. Bradfield to divert BoRROWERS water from the Tully, Herbert and Burde­ kin Rivers into the Flinders Basin. Mr. Hales, pursuant to notice, ask the Minister for Works and Housing- The Bradfield proposal was subsequently examined in some detail in 1947 by the In relation to an article on page 8 late Dr. W. H. R. Nimmo, who was able of "The Courier-Mail" of 17 March to use more recent topographical, rainfall wherein he is claimed to have said that and stream-flow data. Broadly, Dr. Nimmo some permanent building societies, includ­ found that with modifications the proposal ing the Queensland Permanent Building was physically possible but that it was not Society, have introduced a 1 per cent as attractive as Dr. Bradfield suggested. levy on borrowers who are two months The costs were extraordinarily high and or more in arrears, which permanent out of all proportion to the benefit likely building societies have levied this charge? to be received. 2508 Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice

ln late 1961 the Irrigation and Water (2) Investors should seek their own legal Supply Commission undertook a prelimin­ advice as to what action they should take ary investigation of the proposal to divert in the recovery of moneys paid to this the Herbert River into the upper Burdekin company. River. This study confirmed that diversion was feasible and concluded that a need for the work could develop to meet the 23. R\QUAC!L FOR USE IN long-term requirements for irrigation in the SWIMMING-POOLS Burdekin catchment. This aspect has not Mr. Berton:i, pursuant to notice, asked the been considered in the current joint Com­ Minister for Health- monwealth/State study of the Burdekin Basin. Further studies of the diversion pro­ ( 1) Is he aware of a chemical known as posal do not appear warranted at this polyhexamethylene biquanide hydrochlo­ stage. ride and commonly marketed as Baquacil for the control of algae and bacteria in (2) Copies of the original Bradfield pro­ swimming-pools? posal are not available. Dr. Nimmo's (2) If so, why is this product on sale report was published in the annual report only in Queensland and South Australia and of the Land Administration Board for the are there any health restrictions preventing year 1946/47. Details of the 1961 inves­ its sale in other States? tigation are set out in a preliminary report by the Irrigation and Water Supply Com­ Answers:­ mission, "Water Resources Development­ (1) Yes. Herbert River". (2) I am advised that the product is or (3) The annual costs of flooding in the will be marketed in other Australian States. Ingham/Tully regions are known in broad terms and an overview study is currently 24. NEW SOUTH WALES EGGS ON QUEENS­ being finalised for the Irrigation and Water LAND MARKET Supply Commission on the requirements for flood-mitigation works in these sugar­ Mr. Bertoni, pursuant to notice, asked growing areas and others in North Queens­ the Minister for Primary Industries- land. It is appreciated that the costs likely ( 1) What are the names and addresses to be involved in such works are consider­ of the two or more New South Wales egg able, and financial assistance from the producers who have special symbols from Commonwealth Government would be the Queensland Egg Marketing Board to essential to implementation of any scheme. supply the Queensland market? Implementation of the Tennessee Valley scheme relied very heavily on Central (2) What is the name of the supplier Government support plus income from whose symbol has been revoked and what power generation. was the reason? ( 3) In view of the restrictions placed on Queensland egg producers through the hen 22. EDENLEE PTY. LTD. LAND, HERVEY quota system for the control of eggs on the Queensland market, what regulations BAY exist that prevent the sale of New South Mr. Bertoni, pursuant to notice, asked the Wales eggs to Queensland markets, par­ Minister for Justice and Attorney-General- ticularly to the northern and north-western ( 1) With reference to my questions to areas and does the overproduction of eggs him on 26 August 1975 and 1 April 1976 by New South Wales producers cause concerning the sale of land at Hervey Bay flooding of the Queensland market? by Edenlee Pty. Ltd., has the Corporate Affairs Office completed its investigation Answers:- and, if so, what action has been taken ( I) The names and addresses of the against the company? two New South Wales egg producers who have been granted egg identification (2) When can investors expect return symbols under the provisions of the of all or part of moneys given to these Poultry Industry Act are:- land cheats? (i) Mr. J. Bolster, Egg and I Pty. Ltd., Pacific Highway, Tweed Heads. Answers:- (ii) H. and F. Brazil, Legume, ( 1) The Commissioner for Corporate N.S.W. Affairs has completed his investigations The responsibiHty for issuing egg under the Auctioneers and Agents Act identification symbols to New South Wales 1971-1975. The matter has now been producers who can meet rthe necessary referred to Fraud Squad officers attached egg-grading standards rests wi,th my to the commissioner's office for further department. investigation. The company has been pro­ secuted and fined a total of $3,000 on (2) The supplier whose symbol has been three summonses issued for breaches of revoked is:- the Auctioneers and Agents Act 1971- Mr. J. Bolster, Egg and I Pty. Hd., 1975. Pacific Highway, Tweed Heads. Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice 2509

The reason for withdrawal of the sym­ conference was convened by that com­ bol previously issued to this egg pro­ mission on 17 March 1977. I am ducer was failure ·to comply with the informed ·that an offer made by the Cab­ quality and weight-grading standards set oolture Shire Council to continue both down in .the regulations made under the employees as labourers was rejected by the Poultry Industry Act. Municipal Officers' Association. Efforts to resolve the dispute by conciliation (3) Section 92 of the Australian Con­ appear to have failed. stitution precludes any interference with {he free trade of goods across State At this stage there are no appropriate borders. avenues available •to my department to Provided eggs are marked and graded take further action to resolve this dispute. in accordance with the quality and weight standards set down in the regulations made under the Poultry Industry Act, 26. A.U.S. COMBAT SEXISM KIT there is no restriction on New South Mr. Frawley, pursuant to notice, asked the Wales eggs being sold in Queensland. These Minister for Education and Cultural Activ­ regulations do not apply in ·fhe nor.th and ities- north-western areas of the State. ( 1) Is he aware of a kit put out ·by the While the egg industry in New South Australian Union of Students, a Commun­ Wales has encountered delays controlling ist-dominated group of lesbians and homo­ over-production, there is no evidence of sexuals dedicated to the destruction of these eggs being sold in Queensland by student morality in this country? persons other than the ·two symbol holders mentioned above. (2) As this kit, known as the "Combat Sexism Kit", is being sold to students There is no record of the number of throughout the country, will he take steps New South Wales eggs sold in Queensland. to prevent its being sold in Queensland?

Answers:­ 25. CABOOLTURE MUNICIPAL OFFICERS' (!) Yes. DISPUTE (2) Though I have not had the oppor­ Mr. Frawley, pursuant to notice, asked tunity to examine this kit in detail, it the Minister for Industrial Development, appeared to contain some material which Labour Relations and Consumer Affairs- would be acceptable and useful. However, ( 1) Is he aware of a dispute existing some other material in it appeared to be in Caboolture between members of the very questionable and may offend some Municipal Officers' Association and the people. In such cases they could resort to shire council? the appropriate legal action if they felt strongly enough about it. (2) What is the cause of the dispute and what action has his department taken? Answer:- 27. SAFETY OF QUEENSLAND RAILWAYS (1 and 2) An industrial dispute cur­ Mr. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked the rently exists between the Municipal Minister for Transport- Officers' Association and the Caboolture (!) With reference to the New South Shire Council. Wales inquiry presently being conducted into the Granville raH disaster, is he com­ I am informed 1that the dispute eman­ pletely satisfied with the safety of the ates from notices of dismissal being given Queensland railways? to Mr. M. Kerins, a storeman, and Mr. J. Ferguson, a soil tester, and has resulted (2) How many derailments have there in a series of rolling strikes by other been on Queensland railways over each o,f members of ·that union. the last 10 years and on what lines? The two employees concerned, and those (3) How many persons have been killed who participated in strike action, work and how many have been injured, what is under the condirtions prescribed by an the total value of the loss of, or damage to, award of the Australian Arbitration Com­ •private goods and rahlway property on the mlssion. It is reported that the Cabool­ Queensland railways over each of the last ture Shire Council rejected an offer by 10 years? Commonwealth Commissioner Gough to chair a meeting between the disputants in ( 4) What are the facilities and safe­ an endeavour to resolve the dispute on guards and how many safety officers are the grounds that •the Commonwealth com­ involved to ensure that a tragic disaster missioner had no authority because i!he such as that at Granville does not occur dispute was not of an interstate nature. in Queensland? The Municipal Officers' Association (5) How many bridges of the same notified the State Industrial Commission type as that at Granville are on the Queens­ of the dispute on 16 March 1977 and a land railways? 2510 Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice

(6) What is the age of the oldest car­ Hayles Magnetic Island 'Pty. Ltd., and to riages and w1ligons now being used on the the jetty, the maintenance of which i5 Queensland railways, how many are there, the responsibility of that company. and what is the daily average number of (2) The timber groyne failed under :people traveLling in such carriages? storm-wave attack, leaving timber debris (7) How many complaints have been and remnants of rusting steel rails pro­ made concerning safety on the Queensland truding from the coral of the lagoon. These railways, who made them and what action were removed in 1972. It is the opinion was taken? of my Department of Harbours and Marine that the groyne may have contributed (8) Will he consider holding a general directly to losses of sand from the island. inquiry into safety on the Queensland (3) The most recent contract for sand­ railways to ensure that a tragedy such as pumping and experimental groyne con­ that at Granville does not happen here? struction cost a total of $67,323. The sand replenishment of the cay is considered to Answer:- be satisfactory in that it corrected a situ­ (1 to 8) Apart from the considerable ation where the cay was deficient of sand. time and effort which would be entailed The groyne and sand-pumping did not in researching the records to ascertain the prove to be useful in protecting buildings detailed information sought by the honour­ owned by Hayles Magnetic Island Pty. Ltd. able member, it would be quite inappro­ (4) A grant of $74,504 was sought from priate for me to comment, at this stage, the Commonwealth Government under the on matters in any way relating to the Tourism Grants Scheme 1975-76 towards Granville rail disaster in view of the fact the cost of the works mentioned in my that the circumstances surrounding that answer to the honourable member's third mishap are, at present, the subject of a question. Advice was received in March judicial inquiry. 1976 that the grant programme had been discontinued and that the grant would not be made. 28. EROSION PROBLEM AT GREEN ISLAND, (5) Cal>' et has decided, and Hayles NORTH QUEENSLAND Magnetic lsiand Pty. Ltd. has been advised, Mr. Jones, pursuant to notice, asked the that no further funds will be made avail­ Minister for Tourism and Marine Services- able for shore protection works on Green (1) Further to his answers to my ques­ Island as these would be essentially for tions on 8 October 1975 and 21 September the protection of private property. I do 1976 concerning erosion problems at not consider Green Island to be a disaster Green Island, is he aware that the con­ area. While there is certainly a threat to struction of the polythene-enclosed sand two of the company's buildings, there is groyne was washed away d'oHowing the no present likelihood of loss of the island. high tides of November-December 1976 and that recent cyclonic weather has 29. FIRST-YEAR CENTRE AT TRINITY BAY accelerated critical erosion of this coral HIGH SCHOOL, CAIRNS atoll and premier tourist resort? Mr. Jones, pursuant ,to notice, asked the (2) Why was local knowledge rejected Minister for Works and Housing- in this matter and the timber groyne (!) Was the erection of a first-year removed? centre at the Trinity Bay High School, (3) What is the cost of this pro­ Cairns, which was contemplated for the ject to date and are the results considered commencement of the 1977 school year, to be satisbctory? deferred? ( 4) Did the State Government submit (2) Did the parents and citizens' a request for a developmental grant of association receive advice during 1976 $74,504 for beach protection work at assuring it that the building would be Green Island and was this grant withdrawn completed before 1977 to relieve the ever­ by the Commonwealth Government in pressing staff-room and classroom accom­ February this year? modation shortage at this school, which is (5) Will urgent action be taken to being aggravated by ever-increasing student recover the situation in this now disaster enrolments? area? (3) If so, how does he reconcile this action with the original advice and when is Answers:- it now expected that the work will com­ (1) The experimental groyne constructed mence and the building be ready for by my Department of Harbours and Marine occupation? in 1975 of sand-filled polypropylene bags Answers:- has slumped slightly under wave action but is substantially intact. (1) I am ruot aware of any such action. My Department of Harbours and Marine (2) I am not aware of any such is aware of the erosion which has occurred 1l!Ssurance. at the south-west corner of the island, (3) No indioot!ions can be given in rthis causing a threat to buildings owned by regard. Questions Upon Notice (22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice 2511

30. THREAT TO GROWERS OF MALTING State Budget and his reply that since BARLE,Y November $65,000,000 was available from State Consolidated Revenue for employ­ Mr. Warner, pursuant to nO>tice, asked the ment-generating capital works, as on his Min:ister for Primary Industries- own figures only $35,500,000 was calculated As the livelihood of growers of malting to be available from the money allocated barley is being threatened by a serious to cover the cost of salary and wage award decline occurring in Australian beer pro­ increases, from where was the remaining duction, what action can this Government $29,500,000 derived? take to ensure that the 30c now paid on every bottle is not raised by the Com­ Answer:- monwealth Government, so disadvantaging The question implies that I did not ade­ growers in an already serious position? quately answer the honourable member's previous question with respect to the allo­ Answer:- cation of the further $65,000,000 that has I am aware of the 1.2 per cent decline been made to employment-generating in Australian beer production which occur­ works. This is not so. red during 1975-76. However, I would I have gone back to the previous ques­ refer the honourable member to the latest tion and answer and am satisfied that every Aus,tralian Bureau of Statistics Production fair-minded member will agree that I have Summary No. 42 dated 2 March 1977, a complete answer on all matters that which indicates a 1.2 per cent ,increaJSe in were not readily available in printed beer production over the six months ended material. As a matter of fact, in an en­ 31 December 1976, compared with the deavour to provide the honourable mem­ same period in 1975. ber with a complete picture of the position, In relation 'to the Queensland barley I went further than just answering the industry, returns to growers for maiting specific question. I firstly corrected his barley are dependent more on develop­ misconception that the additional alloca­ ments in

What would not have been readily dis­ South Wales $30,000,000 was to be spread closed from a quick examination of the very thinly over a 12-month period, published figures was the $35,000,000 ex­ whereas Queensland's $65,000,000 will be pected saving which was spread through all spent by 30 June. salary and wage Votes and I explained this as being a benefit flowing from the success of the Federal Government's economic 33. ROAD AND FERRY TRAFFIC CHANGES management policies whereby cost escala­ FOR NEW PORT OF BRISBANE tions have been held to a lower level than had been experienced in recent years. Mr. HotL

(4) I am not aware that the up-down 35. GOLD CoAST LICENSED RESTAURANTS ferry operator has placed his ferry service Mr. Dean, pursuant to notice, asked the up for sale. This is a private enterprif.e Minister for Justice and Attorney-General- which must make and take its profit'; in the market-place. We are not here to spend ( 1) With reference to recent statements public money for private good. by the executive officer of the State Licensing Commission that investigation~ (5) Yes, it is understood that the service were undertaken by the commission follow­ enjoys good patronage during peak periods ing complaints that some restaurants on but I would suggest that off-peak patron­ the Gold Coast imposed excessive cover age is not always a paying proposition and charges during the Christmas/New Year that the service must be balanced if it is holiday period, which restaurants were to remain viable without subsidy support. complained about? as at present. (2) What action was taken against the (6) As mentioned previously, down-river restaurants which were exploiting people services are included in the study and in this fashion? their introduction will be contingent upon ,the recommendations of the study, which Answers:- also was asked to review existing facilities. ( 1 ) Only one complaint was received by the Licensing Commission and this wa5 in regard to El Rancho Restaurant, Surfers 34. FORESTRY DEPARTMENT EMPLOYEES Paradise. Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked the (2) A direction of the Licensing Com­ Minister for Lands, Forestry, National Parks mission was subsequently issued to the and Wildlife Service- licensee of these premises and, in fact, ( 1) For each of the last 10 years, how to all holders of restaurant licences and many people have been employed in the limited hotel licences throughout Queens­ Forestry Department as at 30 June? land, drawing their attention to the pro­ (2) For each of the last five years, how visions of the Liquor Act which prohibit many people have been dismissed from the the imposition of a cover charge without department? the approval of the Licensing Commission. Aruwers:- (1) Employment of wages staff in the 36. PROBLEMS OF FAMILIES OF Forestry Department as at 30 June for each ALCOHOLICS of the last 10 years was as follows:- Mr. Dean, pursuant to notice, asked the 1967, 1,744; 1968, 1,793; 1969, 1,465; Minister for Health- 1970, 1,711; 1971, 1,637; 1972, 1,737; ( 1) Is he aware that social workers 1973, 1,775; 1974, 1,684; 1975, 1,739; severely criticise the State Government's and 1976, 1,413. new Health Paper on Alcoholism and Drug (2) Dismissals from the Forestry Depart­ Dependence Services for failing to recog­ ment in the last five years have been: nise that the families of alcoholics should be involved in the rehabilitation? 1971-72, nil; 1972-73, nil; 1973-74, nil; 1974-75, nil; and 1975-76, 277 (including (2) What emphasis does his department 250 men employed under the Regional place on the family in relation to the Employment Development Scheme). alcoholic? In replying to this question it is assumed ( 3) What support systems are provided that the honourable member refers to staff for the family of an alcoholic? retrenchments rather than to normal dis­ ( 4) Will he take into account in this missals for disciplinary reasons. area that those closest to the alcoholic Since 1974 the department's woi'k-force or problem drinker are involved emotion­ has generally declined in numbers due to ally and often physically and that family changing work requirements. This trend attitudes and reactions also affect the was temporarily reversed, however, in 1975 alcoholic and his illness? when the number employed was inflated by some 250 men engaged under Regional Answer:- Employment Development Schemes. ( 1 to 4) In answer to the honourable The general reduction in the work-force member's four-part question, I would point evident since 1974 has been achieved out that in the Health Paper tabled in almost wholly by non-replacement of men this House on 27 October 1976 the fol­ who retired or resigned from the depart­ lowing quotation appears:- ment. Only in 1976 was it necessary to "Alcoholism is often a family prob­ dismiss men and this was due to termina.. lem and for most alcoholics, and cer­ tion of the Regional Employment Develop­ tainly for those where social deterior­ ment Scheme, and to some extent because ation is not advanced, facilities shouJd of a decrease in funds available to the be as near as possible to the individual's State from the Commonwealth under the home. If this basic principle is broken, Softwood Agreement. unrealistic therapeutic endeavours can 2514 Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice

proceed in centres remote from the (2) The road would virtually halve the family. Such efforts are essentially present distance from Tewantin to Rain­ inefficient". bow Beach and would certainly improve Such a statement undeniably indicates access for tourism in the area. that it is a basic principle of the develop­ (3) Reforestation funds would not be ing services of the Alcoholism and Drug available for construction of the road in Dependence Service of the Government question and its development would depend that attention will be paid not only to on the allocation of special funds. the dependent person but also to the famiiy of the dependent person. I am aware that one particular organisation has 39, 40 QUEENSLAND PERMANENT made such a criticism and has sought and 41. BUILDING SOCIETY Press publicity on this matter. However, Mr. K. J. Hooper, pursuant to notice, it has been pointed out to its members asked the Minister for Justice and quite clearly that their criticism has been Attorney-General- made on a false premise. With reference to a $2,600,000 dis­ crepancy in the accounts of the Queensland Permanent Building Society last year, have 37. INQUIRY INTO ANIMAL AND any of his officers from the Office of VEGETABLE PESTS the Commissioner for Corporate Affairs Mr. Dean, pursuant to notice, asked the been instructed to make any investigations Minister for Lands, Forestry, National Parks whatsoever into this matter and, if so, for and Wildlife Service- approximately how long have these inves­ tigations been taking place? ( 1) Has the inquiry into animal and vegetable pests been concluded and, if Answer:- so, what were the recommendations and Officers of the building societies section have the report and recommendations of of the Office of the Commissioner for the inquiry been submitted to Cabinet? Corporate Affairs are making investiga­ (2) Has Cabinet made any decisions tions. However, since the administra­ stemming from the recommendations and, tion of building society matters is the if so, what were the decisions? responsibility of my colleague the Hon­ ( 3) Will he table a copy of the report ourable the Minister for Works and and recommendations? Housing, I suggest that the honourable member direct his question to him. Answer:- Mr. K. J. Hooper: I do so accordingly. ( 1 to 3) The committee of inquiry into animal and vegetable pests has furnished its report and recommendations and these Mr. K. J. Hooper, pursuant to notice, are presently being considered by Cabinet. asked the Minister .for Works and Housing­ The report is still under consideration. I ( 1) What are the total funds invested feel confident that in due course the report with the Queensland Permanent Building will be tabled in the House. Society? (2) How much of this represents money accepted on term deposits? 38. ACCESS ROAD FROM TEWANTIN TO RAINBOW BEACH (3) What is the total membership of the society and how many of these persons Mr. Simpson, pursuant to notice, asked the are borrowers? Minister for Lands, Forestry, National Parks and Wildlife Service- Answers:- ( 1) Will he consider setting aside land (1) Total funds of the Queensland Per­ in the forestry area of Como to give a manent Building Society as at 11 March better road access from Tewantin to Rain­ 1977 equalled approximately $180,249,000, bow Beach? which rep11esents an increase in total funds (2) Is he aware that such a road would of approximately $23,653,000 since 30 greatly assist access to Cooloola National June 1976. Park and Fraser Island? (2) I am not prepared to state the (3) Will he assist the move for such amount this society ho1ds on term deposits, a road to boost the tourist and allied as 1his would disdose confidential man­ industries, which would help to relieve agement information to its competitors. the local unemployment problem? (3) Total mentbership of the society Answers:- approximates 142,000, of which approxi­ mately 8,750 are borrowing members. ( 1) Gazetted road access from Tewantin to Rainbow Beach already exists except for a small section of about 2 kilometres. Mr. K. J. Hooper, pursuant to notice, Representatives from the interested shires asked the Deputy Premier and Treasurer­ considered the location was satisfactory. ( 1) Is he satisfied with the interest rates There would be no objection to the gazettal charged to borrowers at present by the of the missing link. Queensland Permm'lent Building Society? Questions Upon Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Upon Notice 2515

(2) Does he support the principle Mr. Yewdaie: I redirect it to the whereby the Minister for Works and Minister for Health for tomorrow. Housing should request cost-cutting exercises by the society in an endeavour to marginally lower their interest rates 44. RAILWAY IMPROVEMENTS AT instead of having the situation where ROCKHAMPTON the society's clients have to pay for the Mr. Yewdale, pursuant to notice, asked society's former mismanagement? the Premier- Answer:- Has he received a submission from the Rockhampton City Council relating to (! and 2) I would suggest ~he honour­ the removal of the railway line from Deni­ able member direct any specific question son Street, Rockhampton, and the con­ he may have on the matter io the Mini­ struction of a new rail bridge across the ster responsible for it. Fitzroy River and, if so, as the Minister for Tran~>port was forwarded a similar sub­ mission, has he consulted with him on the 42. MISLEADING PACKAGING ADVERTISING matter and, if not, when does he contem­ OF HOUSEHOLD GOODS plate discussions will commence? Mr. Y ewdale, pursuant to notice, asked the Minister for Industrial Development, Answer:- Labour Relations and Consumer Affairs- The mayor of Rockhamp.ton wrote ~o ( 1) Is he aware that the Victorian Con­ me in this regard on 7 March and my sumers Association has investigated a colleague the Minister for Transport and number of products and has revealed that I are presently looking at the proposals misleading packaging advertising is taking put forward. place in a wide variety of normal house­ hold consumer goods? 45. S.G.LO. BUILDING SoCIETY RATES (2) Has he a copy of the report of the Victorian Consumers Association and is Mr. Prest, pursuant to notice, asked the it the subject of review by his department? Deputy Premier and Treasurer- (3) To protect consumers against false As mortgagees were assured in early and misleading advertising, will he intro­ 1976, when the operations of certain build­ duce legislation similar to the trade ing societies were taken over by the practices legislation? S.G.I.O. Building Society, that no extra charges would be involved in connection Answer:- with the transfer of mortgages, how can the increase in interest rates from 10-'65 (1 ro 3) It is assumed the re~port to per cent to 11.75 per cent and the present which the honourable m=ber refers is increase from 11.75 per cent to 12.25 that contained in the December issue of per cent, effective from 1 March 1977, be ''Consumer Comment" under "Food justified when the depositors' investment Labels". In the circumstances, I sugg~t rate remains at 9.5 per cent? -the honourable member redirect his ques­ tion to my colleague the Minister for Answer:- Health. . ·I The S.G.I.O. Building Society intereS[ Mr. Yewdale: I do so accordingly. rate to borrowers was moved 'to 12t per cent from 1 March and this brings it more or less into line with 1he major1ty of its 43. MRS. TREWREN'S JAM compedtors. Mr. Yewdale, pursuant to notice, asked The QueensLand 1Permanent 'Building the Minister for Industrial Development, Society charges 12} per cent to $25,000, Labour Relations and Consumer Affairs- 13 per cent thereafter to $40,000, l3l per cent thereaf-ter to $50,000 and 14 per cent ( 1) Is jam branded as Mrs. Trewren's, on loans over $50,000. which is made in Melbourne, being sold in Queensland and is it claimed that it Secul'ity Permanent charges 12t per cent contains no added sugar? to $50,000 and 13t per cent for $50,000 and over. First Provincial is at 12t per (2) Does the 200 g jar contain about cent whilst the Metropolitan Permanent 480 calories and is the jam sweetened with lending rate is 1 H per cent. sorbitol, a carbohydrate used in diabetic diets and having similar calorie content The S.G.I.O. Building Society took over to that of sugar? the affairs of seven societies trading unprof­ itably. Substantial administrative economies ( 3) What action will he take to prevent have been effeoted rto date and still are the advertising of this product from delud­ being effeoted. This -together with the ing Queensland consumers? raising of the lending rate to 12t per cent enhances ~the prospects of the new society Answer:- !trading profi,tably, thereby serving the best (1 [o 3) I suggest [hat this is a matter interests of clients of the S.G.I.O. Building for my colleague the Minister for Health. Society in the longer .term. 2516 Questions Without Notice [22 MARCH 1977] Questions Without Notice

46. FARES TO MELBOURNE FOR Mr. NEWB.ERY: In view of the publicity TREATMENT OF RETARDED CHILDREN that this case has received over the week-end Mr. Prest, pursuant to notice, asked the and again today, and the fact that the public Minister for Community and Welfare has been misinformed through certain Scn ices and Ivfinister for Spmt- channels, I have a statement to make that As the New South Wales Minister for should answer the question that has now been Youth and Community Services provides put to me. fares to Sydney and Melbourne to allow Criticism in this matter appears to be retarded children to receive treatment, will based on the assumption that the two con­ he consider providing fares to parents and victed policemen will not be dismissed from the child when a retarded child is required the Police Force. Such assumption is improper to travel to Brisbane and Melbourne to at this time because the matter has yet to receive the Delacato physical methods be finalised. Commissioner Lewis, acting in given by a Melbourne-based organisation accordance with police rules, has called on known as ANSUA? the two officers to show cause why they should not be dismissed from the force. In Answer:- effect, the commissioner has commenced a This maHer does not oome within my summary inquiry and the critics should hold ministerial responsibilities. their tongues until the commissioner's Mr. Prest: I refer it to the appropriate decision is announced. It is grossly improper Minister. that members of the legal profession or the general public should attempt to influence Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The or interfere with the role of the commissioner honourable member referred the question to in the exercise of his statutory authority. the "appropriate Minister." I shall have a It should be understood that the com­ look at that. missioner has no power to dismiss auto­ matically a member of the force following 47. PRE-SCHOOLS AT BILOELA AND conviction in an open court. Under the police GLADSTONE rules, the commissioner is required to institute show-cause proceedings and these proceedings Mr. Prest, pursuant to notice, asked the are now in train. The certificates of convic­ Minister for Works and Housing- tion on which the show-cause actions are ( 1) In view of his answer that the pre­ based were received by the commissioner on schoo~ at Biloela was completed and 16 March. The show-cause notices were opened two years ago and his efforts to signed on 17 March and have been sent to refute claims that money allocated for the two officers concerned. educational projects in Labor-held elector­ ates is being diverted into Government­ I should also point out to the House that held seats, is the Biloela Pre-school now to the time allowed for the two officers to lodge be extended? appeals against their court convictions has not elapsed and it is a matter of regret that (2) What is the estimated cost of these speculation about their future should be extensions? allowed to continue before the officers have ( 3) In view of his statements, will he had the opportunity to exercise this right. give an unqualified assurance that the con­ struction Oif the proposed pre-school in Gladstone will still go ahead as originally PARLIAMENTARY REVIEW OF RADFORD SCHEME planned, especially as tenders have already been called? Mr. WRIGHT: I ask the Minister for Education and Cultural Activities: As the Answer:- Scott committee is at present making recom­ (1 to 3) I have already indicated that mendations to the Board of Secondary School the matter of pre-school provisions at both Studies, following its study of the Fairbairn­ centres is under consideration. Patience Rigby report and the Campbell report, and is a virtue that the honourable member in view of his previous statements in this should leam to acquire, as he was House recently that no further review was given the foregoing information only last required, will he now explain the reason Thursday. behind setting up a parliamentary review of the ramifications of the Radford scheme? QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE Mr. BIRD: I do not think this can be ACTIONS OF POLICE DEPARTMENT FOLLOWING regarded as a separate inquiry. The members CoNVICTION OF POLICE OFFICERS AT CAIRNS of my parliamentary education committee have indicated, and I have agreed, that if Mr. TENNI: I ask the Minister for Police: at any time they believe that any matter In view of the recent criticism by certain should be brought to my attention and to members of the legal profession in Cairns of the attention of the Education Department, the action taken by the Police Department they should be able to do so. I believe that in respect of two members of the Police they are fulfilling their duty in this regard. Force presently at Cairns, can the Minister A matter has been brought to the attention inform the House if there is any real of my education committee and to the atten­ justification for this criticism? tion of the joint parties, and as a result my Privilege [22 MARCH 1977] Libraries Act Amendment Bill 2517 edc1cation committee will be providing me ask, Mr. Acting Speaker, that you request with more information on the inatter that is the Minister for Education to answer my considered to be of concern at the present question as put. time. When the information is supplied to me. I \;ill be taking it to Cabinet for con­ Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! This is sideration. not a matter of privilege; it is one of House procedure. The question was referred to me yesterday. A good portion of it was not in fact a question but a statement of fact, and it MINISTERIAL CoNTROL OF SCHOOL TEXTBOOKS w1s thus considered not necessary that it be AND RESOURCE MATERIAL placed on the Notices of Questions. That Mr. WRXGHT: I ask the Minister for Edu­ statement of fact in support of the question cation and Cultural Activities: What control was forwarded to the Minister, and he was has he over the textbooks and resource aware of it. It is not the role of the Speaker material used in schools? In view of the to adjudicate in any way upon how the Min­ allegation that has now been made that a ister chooses to answer a question. book is being used through which children involve themselves in a murder situation, what action is the Minister prepared to take FJRE BRIGADES ACT AMENDMENT to see that this type of book is not being BILL used by students in our Queensland schools? INITIATION Mr. BIRD: As all members will be aware, Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minister soon after taking over my portfolio of Edu­ for Industrial Development, Labour Relations cation I issued instructions to all school prin­ and Consumer Affairs): I move- cipals and parents and citizens' associations "That the House will, at its present that they should peruse all material in use sitting, resolve itself into a Committee of in schools throughout this State and, if they the V!hole to consider introducing a Bill felt that a particular book should not be to amend the Fire Brigades Act 1964-1976 used, they should ensure that that book was in certain particulars." not introduced into the schools. Motion agreed to. As the honourable member knows, a cer­ tain amount of freedom has been given to schools in more recent years, and I agree FIRE BRIGADE CHARGES REFUND with this, but the particular book which is BILL receiving publicity in the news media at the INITIATION present time is one which, having looked at it after it was brought to my attention, I Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minister would agree most certainly is not the type of for Industrial Development, Labour Relations book which should be used in our school and Consumer Affairs): I move- system. I hope that the parents and citizens' "That the House will, at its present sit­ associations and the principals and teachers ting, resolve itself into a Committee of of this State have heeded my warning and the Whole to consider introducing a Bill taken my advice. If they have not I would to provide for the refund to policy-holders be very disappointed. But I have issued of certain fire brigade charges and for instructions this morning that, if the book is matters incidental thereto." found to be in use in any of the State schools Motion agreed to. throughout Queensland, it should be with­ drawn immediately. JUSTICES ACT AND THE CRIMINAL Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The time CODE AMENDMENT BILL allotted for questions has now expired. INITIATION Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha­ PRIVILEGE Minister for Justice and Attorney-General): I move- QUESTIONS ON NOTICE "That the House will, at its present sit­ Dr. SCOTI-YOUNG (Townsville) (12.4 ting, resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider introducing a Bill p.m.): Mr. Acting Speaker, I rise under to amend the Justices Act 1886-1975 Standing Order No. 115 on a question of and The Criminal Code each in certain privilege. On 17 March I gave notice of a particulars." question directed to the Minister for Educa­ Motion agreed to. tion for today, but from the Notices of Questions today I find that it has been emas­ culated and in fact the questions I asked LIBRARIES ACT AMENDMENT BILL have not been answered. This has happened time and time again and rulings have been THIRD READING made that it should not happen and that it Bill, on motion of Mr. Bird, read a third is the question as put that has to be answered. time. 2518 Irrigation Act and Another [22 MARCH 1977] Act Amendment Bill

UNIVERSITIES ACTS AMENDMENT of a river improvement area. Tne present BILL wording of the section is not completely THIRD READING clear in respect of the constitution of a river improvement area on the application Bill, on motion of Mr. Bird, read a third of a single local authority. The amendment time. rephrases the subsection to more clearly express the requirements for constitution of a river improvement area. IRRIGATION ACT AND ANOTHER ACT AMENDMENT BILL Clause 7 amends section 11, which pro­ vides that a trust may, by notice in writing, SECOND READING called an improvement notice, prdnibit an owner or occupier of land w~thin the river Hoo. N. T. E. HEWITT (Auburn­ improvement area from doing or continuing Minister for Water Resources) (12.12 p.m.): any aotion which caused or may contribute I move---- to damage to any bank of the river within the "That the Brll be now read a second area. An improvement notice duly issued time." is also binding upon every person who, sub­ My introductory speech sought to explain the sequent to the giving of ~he notice, becomes reasons for the proposed amendments, and the owner or occupier of ,the land. In this in broad outline how the amendments were regard section llA of the Act provides for proposed to be made. I am pleased that ~he notification of existence of an improve­ honourable members engaged in considerable ment notice to be recorded by endorsement debate at the introductory stage and that on the instrument of title or noting in the the proposals as outlined were generally relevant register. agreed to be necessary and acceptable. To assist in the service of a notice and The amendments are largely procedural the subsequent notification of existence there­ matters and I will, therefore, offer brief of, the amendment proposed widens section comments on the specific clauses of the 11 to enable a notice to be issued on rthe Bill containing the amendments. legal personal representative of a deceased Clause 4 deals with "Assessments on owner or occupier. The amendment is owners of sugar-mills". The insertion pro­ made by the insertion of a new subsection 9 posed by this clause clarifies the power of to section 11 stating the wider meaning of the Commissioner of Irrigation and Water owner and occupier. For consistency in Supply to make and levy an assessment on drafting, a paragraph staJting the definition of owners of a sugar-mill in respect of lands the word "prohibit" is deleted from sub­ within an irrigation area assigned to such section 1 and grouped in the new subsection mill with respect to the supply of water 9. to those lands from works constructed by the commissioner or from underground Clause 8 amends section 12 of t!he prin­ sources assured as a result of such works. cipal Act-Fund of the Trust-to require the establishmen~ and maintenance of an The charge has been approved to apply emergency fund to provide moneys for the in the Bundaberg and Eton irrigation areas. carrying out of urgent works rendered The basis of the charge has been accepted necessary by a flood or other cause. The by all the mil:l owners in the areas. Assess­ clause also provides that the Minister, when ments are presently being made on two he is satisfied the need for an emergency mills in the Bundaberg area. Charges for fund is not likely to arise, may on applica­ 1976-77 totalled some $37,000 and on com­ tion exempt a trust from establishing or pletion of Phase I of the scheme will be maintaining an emergency fund. Some trusts some $250,000. have already established such a fund, and The making of assessments was in effect members may be assured that the Act will approved by previous resolutions of this be administered to enable the fund to be House, and the amendment is made on progressively built up, having due regard rto the advice of the Solicitor-General, who con­ the resources available to a tru&t. siders it doubtful whether the present pro­ vision provided the necessary powers. Clause 9, the final clause of the Bill, provides for three amendments to section 13 Subclause 4 (b) of the Bill deletes the -Budget. Clause 9 (a) is a machinery regulation-making power contained in the clause to provide that in framing the budget Schedule Part II, in relation to "Charges on a trust shall estimaJte the amount to be pro­ owner of sugar mill", which becomes redund­ vided for the emergency fund established ant following the proposed amendment. in accordance with the previous seotion of Part Ill sets out the proposed amend­ the B]l. ments to the River Improvement Trust Act. The second amendment provides mach­ Clause 6 amends section 3 subsection (2), inery which, where circumstances in any year "Constiution of other River Improvement render it necessary, will enable a trust to Areas". incur expenditure not provided for in the A local authority may make application, budget, or in excess of the estimates in or any two or more local authorities may respect of that item provided in the budget. make joint application, for the constitution A trust before making such a disbursement Irrigation Act and Another [22 MARCH 1977] Act Amendment Bill 2519

shall by resolution approve the making to approve immediately emergency expendi­ thereof and obtain the approval of the Min­ ture by river trusts are very important mat­ ister for ,fhe making thereof. ters. The emergency funds should be set up properly. River trusts are financed mainly The final amendment proposed is to sub­ by precepts levied on local authorities. In section 4 of section 13, which section turn, the local authorities obtain funds from en~bles a trust to e~pend funds upon works, their ratepayers. Because river trusts are not mamtenance or repairs rendered necessary by responsible directly to the public, we must any flood or cyclone during any year, pro­ ensure that the build-up in costs of work vided the commissioner with the consent of carried out does not become a severe burden the Governor in Council approves of the on local authorities. Sometimes work carried action, before any expendi,ture is incurred. out does not benefit people in a local author­ As the budget of a trust and any over­ ity area, and it may not be their wish that 'expenditure thereof is approved by the it be carried out. Minister, and as the need for consent and approval generally arises as a matter of I should like to see the Government urgency, the amendment proposes that Act~ary look at the income and expenditure expenditure for this purpose be subjeot to of ~Iver trusts over a period, on a pro rata the consent of the MiniS>ter in lieu of the basis, to ensure that no river trust estab­ Governor in Council. lishes a major emergency fund simply for In view of the procedural nature of the the sake of having a fund which will become amendments and the general acceptance purely an investment portfolio for the author­ previously indicated, I trust that these com­ ity. This is one matter that is not clearly men1s have adequately covered the purpose spelt out iJ?. the Bill. The Minister may be and intent of the Bill. I commend the Bill able to enlighten me on this and, if he can­ to the House. not, I am sure that he will be prepared to look at the way in which emergency funds Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (12.18 p.m.): We are to be invested. ?"o be a true emergency have considered the comments of the Min­ fund .the money will have to be readily ister at the introductory stage. We accept accessible. If a local authority needing money his Sltatement ,that most of the proposed in a hurry has still to go through a hassle amendments are procedural ones. to get money from a borrowing authority it will be no better off. If a rock wall has t~ The first proposed amendment to the be built OJ?. a river-bank where scouring has Irrigation Act deals mainly with the clari­ occurred, It has to be done fairly quickly fication of a legal position. It is very im­ before subsequent flooding causes really bad portant that ~hat should be done at this damage to farming areas or townships. stage. !he Government's power to levy the sugar-mills should be properly clarified and . In the past few years a number of people set out clearly in the Act. The whole m th~ Herbert area have been drawing the economy and operaton of these schemes is attentiOn of the Hinchinbrook Shire Council dependent on this legislation, with rthe mills and the Herbert River Improvement Trust being levied so much per tonne of sugar ~o the need to remove the large sand islands assigned to the pal'ticular mill area. Because m the Herbert River that restrict its flow. of the Federal Government's cut-back in the Just before Christmas the Ingham-Halifax Branch of the A.L.P. drew this matter to the f~nding ?f the Bundaberg. and Eton Irriga­ tion ProJects-the two mam ones concerned attention of both organisations. In many here-we cannot have anything else go instances the older residents of an area can wrong with the funding of those projects. tell us more about these problems than the Both projeots are under way. Both of experts from the various Government depart­ ments and organisations. The local residents them a~e vital to the sugar industry, and to the mamtenance of a proper economy in of Ingham and Halifax know that these sand the Bundaberg and Mackay districts. The islands have helped to create the flooding. Opposition clearly supports that amendment. y.'hen cattle were allowed to graze on the Islands they kept the . grass down, which Some of the clauses which amend the helped to prevent the Islands from joining River Improvement Trust Act are very together, and the normal flow of the river timely. Indeed, some of them are very kept the sand on the move out to sea. -- much overdue. I refer in particular to the clause relating to emergency spending. Very How do we differentiate between emergency often flood-waters in many Queensland funds and general funds? Mr. Acting Speaker, rivers cause extensive damage. That can you would he well aware that in recent happen when a cyclonic influence moves days many questions have been asked in down the coast. Sometimes within a fort­ the House about damage done in the Herbert night-before funds can be allocated to River are::1-~~ to the approaches to the John effect repairs-another cyclonic influence Row Bridge and to several farms and other floods the rivers again and causes more areas along the banks of the Herbert River. harm than the earlier one. Certainly the flooding may have resulted in an emergency; but is it work that should The establishment of the emergency have. been carried out as part of the general funds and the givmg of power to the Minis­ fundmg and normal functions of the river ter (rather than to the Governor in Council) trust itself? It is in that area that we 2520 Irrigation Act and Another [22 MARCH 1977] Act Amendment Bill have to be both cautious and careful. A Mr. JENSEN (Bundaberg) (12.29 p.m.): clear line of demarcation has to be set as This Biil is an important one, as the validity to what emergency funds are to be expended of any charges should be legally established, on. The Herbert River affords an excellent especially after the successful challenge on example of what may happen, as recent the stock levies. Irrigation schemes today events are fresh in everybody's mind. are very costly and must be funded by One principle of the Bill I do find a levies imposed under this Act. Although little hard to accept relates to the granting sugar millers have agreed to the levies, of exemption to those trusts that require it. nevertheless their imposition must be I can barely conceive the likelihood of a legalised. river trust finding it necessary to set itself The escalation in the estimated cost of up in the first place if there is not a problem the Bundaberg Irrigation Sch~me is con­ with its river. As we all well know, in any siderable, having risen from $47,000,000 to problem-prone river emergencies are likely $100,000,000. In view of this escalation, to arise from sudden flooding. Consequently, it is imperative that the BLindaberg and I cannot see the need for exemption where Eton schemes be completed as soon as there is the need for a river trust. possible. If the rate of escalation continues Mr. N. T. E. Hewi«: We have only pnt and if there is a further Jag in completing that in to give the trusts the option. We these schemes, it could result in their not don't really dictate to them. being viable. I agree with the honourable member for Mr. CASEY: I think it is fair enough Mackay that in the funding of irrigation for the Minister not to insist that a river schemes the Federal Government has let trust embark upon emergency funding. How­ Queensland down completely. There is no ever, on the same basis, if river trusts say, reason why the Federal Government could "We don't want emergency funding. We not fund these schemes. Money should be do not want to add to our local authority cre3J!ed to finance them. They are capital precepts on the possibility that there will be projects and money is always created for an emergency.", they should not suddenly capital projects which will benefit the country be like the boy who cried wolf when they not only immediately but in t!he future. If are confronted with an emergency that has overseas interests set up new industries in been created by flooding. They should not ·this country or undertake projects here, rthe run to the Government, asking it to solve money for them is not poured into the all their problems, give them hand-outs and country; it goes into foreign exchange and fix everything up when it has been their new money is creart:ed here. This, in turn, own fault because they chose not to set up adds to inflation. The Federal Government their own emergency fund. I regard says it is concerned abourt further inflation. I emergency funds as somewhat akin to insur­ Tepeat that this is a cap1tal project and that ance for the area. A levy should be struck money for it should be created because it actuarially for the particular area. will benefit •the country not only immediaJtely, Similarly, it is very difficult to conceive but in the future. how river trusts can function without incor­ Mr. Casey: Forgan Smith did it porating drainage work in their scope. When a river overflows after flooding, the water Mr. JENSEN: Forgan Smith did ·it and lodges behind the natural levee banks and other Governments have done at, bUJt the cannot drain away. That causes severe Federal Government is letting this State down problems. Particularly in cane areas, when very badly. water cannot find its way back into the I suggest that $100,000,000 a year would stream it causes a Jot of damage. That is not be too much for lthe Federal Government one of the biggest problems arising from the to put into irrigation schemes which will flooding in North Queensland this year. In assist our primary industries and some of our certain sections water has lodged behind levee secondary industries in rt:he years to come. I banks and rotted the cane. On the other agree with the honourable member for hand, it is necessary that care be taken Mackay ltha,t the Federal Government has when a drainage scheme is undertaken by !et Queensland down and has caused further a river trust, because the water that does unemployment. Capital projects should be lodge there may well be responsible for going ahead. Because of rthe present escala­ recharging the underground aquifers. Cer­ tion in costs, they should not be allowed to tainly the Irrigation and Water Supply Com­ lag. mission is the correct body to oversee work The State Government has done the right of that sort. thing, particularly with ilhe Bundaberg Irriga­ Those are the main points I wish to make tion Committee. Its budget .this year has been on this Bill. I would certainly not like increased to over $6,000,000. That is the to take advantage of your being in the chair, biggest budget we have ever had. Until now, Mr. Acting Speaker, and digress to other $2,000,000 of that budget came from t!he subjects. I have restricted myself to the Federal Government but, because of thaJt principles of the Bill and not digressed in Government's failulfe :to help the Starte wi'!h the way several members did at the intro­ this irrigation scheme, the State Government ductory stage-members who obviously did has provided an extra $2,000,000 in order to not know the first thing about rive'f trusts. keep the scheme viable. Irrigation Act and Another [22 MARCH 1977] Act Amendment Bill 2521

I hope that every honourable member has Hon. N. T. E. HEWIIT (Auburn-Min­ read the brochure I have in my hand. On ister for Water Resources) (12.37 p.m.), in page 9 it says- reply: There is very little to which to reply. "The slow-down of works caused by I might inform the honourable member for the non-provision of funds now incurs an Mackay that some trusts have already taken annual interes'i charge of $1.7 million. steps to establish emergency funds. Local "This loss will continue until more funds authority representation on trusts can be are provided to make this scheme expected to ensure control in the establish­ productive. ment and administration of such emergency funds. "In addition there is a loss of water sales (@ $12 acre/Jit.) amounting to about It will be a requirement that the funds be $700,000 per year." invested in banks and trustee investments and If the Bill did not make provision for the it should be possible to arrange on-call facil­ levies, t.'J.e Government would lose $700,000 ities. This matter will be examined to ensure in future years. That is the eXJtent of the that the points raised do not create problems present loss because of the lack of Federal in obtaining funds when they are required. Government funding. The honourable member for Bundaberg The brochure contains photographs of raised the need for additional funds. I, in pipes and other matedal lying around in common with all other members, fully realise Bundaberg warring to be used to channel rthe the need for funds from the Commonwealth water from the Monduran Dam, which is Government. We went along with the Com­ as big as Sydney Harbour. It is overflowing monwealth Government this year because we and, because the water cannot be channelled believed the economic situation made it to the BurneH Barrage owing w the lack of necessary to do so, but I say here and now Federal funding, the water is going to was.te. that unless there is Commonwealth funding Mr• .Jones: What is the heading? in the next financial year very serious prob­ lems will arise in this State in the financing Mr. .JENSEN: "Don't let it be a dam of the schemes that are now in progress. waste". That is what it is at the moment. The water is going to waste and the State I think we all realise the value of irriga­ Government is not enjoying the benefit of tion to Queensland, and from it in due the levies payable by the farmers who will course a great amount of revenue flows to use the water. the Commonwealth Government also from increased production and better returns to Of the total production of sugar, 16 per farmers settled in the various irrigation areas. cent comes fmm this region. Australian All I can say to the honourable member exports of sugar are worth $600,000,000 and for Bundaberg is that I am conscious of the 16 per cent of that is $96,000,000. One year need for more money for Bundaberg, just of drought could oost 'the area $96,000,000. as I am conscious of the need for it at Kin­ Yet it would cost less than that to complete chant, Cania, Callide and so many other the scheme. That indicates how stupid places. the Federal Government is. It receives $96,000,000 a year from this area in export I should also mention completion of the income from sugar alone, and the project second stage of the Leslie Dam, which is a is not being made viable. The brochure is scheme that the State Government has had simple to read and underSitand. It shows that before the Commonwealth Government for only $10,000,000 a year is required to keep very many years. Unfortunately that Govern­ this work proceeding at optimum speed. In ment has not seen fit to make any funds four years, 'this part at least of the scheme available for it. The State Government has could be completed. But the Commonwealth Government does not want to see that done. now undertaken to try to do some work on this project from its own resources. I assure I again congratulate the State Government on its efforts to further this scheme. The the honourable member for Bundaberg that Treasurer was in Bundaberg for the Bunda­ the State Government will be pressing the berg Cup meeting on Melbourne Cup day. Commonwealth Government for additional He went to the dam site; in fact, he stayed funds because I, like all other members who an extra day to see it. Even though the know something about irrigation projects, Minister for Water Resources had provided fully realise that without more money many in his Estimates an extra $1,000,000 for this of these schemes are going to remain far project, the Treasurer could see that more from finished. was required. I believe he made a submission to Cabinet which resulted in the allocation of Motion (Mr. Hewitt) agreed to. an extra $1,000,000 for the use of the Min­ ister for Water Resources. An extra $2,000,000 over the allocations of other COMMITTEE years was therefore made available. (The Acting Chairman of Committees, Mr. This amount should have been supplied by the Gunn, Somerset, in the chair) Federal Government. On behalf of the Bunda­ berg Irrigation Committee, I thank the Min­ Clauses 1 to 9, both inclusive, as read, ister for Water Resources for all that he has agreed to. done to keep this project moving. Bill reported, without amendment. 2522 Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill

ELECTORAL DISTRICTS ACT AND the question is not whether a redistribution ANOTHER ACT AMENDMENT BILL should be held this year but what kind of SECOND READING a redistribution we should have. To those who subscribe to corrupt electoral practices, Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah the present Indian elections come as a warn­ -Premier) (12.40 p.m.): I move- ing lesson. Events since last Thursdav's "That the Bill be now read a second debate stress the urgent necessity for an time." amendment of the nature that I now propose. Although I was unable to be present to It does not matter how the Premier argues introduce the Bill, I have subsequently taken or the Treasurer quivers, the purpose of the opportunity to read the speeches made the Government's legislation is very brutally during the introductory debate. clear. Without reference to this Parliament As might be expected, Opposition members or resort to law the Premier will be free to adopted their usual hypocritical attitude and direct redistributions at his whim-redistribu­ engaged in a futile exercise of political flag­ tions as often as he likes into as many seats waving. Their approach to the Bill will as he likes. certainly not deceive the electors of Queens­ Mr. Frawley: Is that bad? land. Mr. BURNS: Does the honourable mem­ As explained by my colleague the Honour­ ber think it is good? That may be the way able the Deputy Premier and Treasurer when he sees parliamentary democracy, but it introducing the Bill, the proposed amendment seems that every other Parliament does not is a simple machinery measure designed to I understand that the boundaries in South update the two Acts in question and bring Australia are being challenged in the High them into line with current-day trends and Court or the Privy Council, but this is not practices. It is as simple as that. The reasons allowed under this Government's legislation. for its introduction have already been fully In the Federal sphere the Parliament itself is explained and I commend the Bill to the allowed to debate the boundaries, but it House. appears that the honourable member accepts Honourable Members interjected. the Queensland situation and thinks it is quite correct to have Cabinet control and that Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! Parliament should not count. Most people in the parliamentary democracies throughout Mr. K. J. Hooper: A closed mouth catches the world have argued the exact opposite­ no flies. that Parliament and not the Cabinet should Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! We can be supreme. learn our lessons the easy way or the ha~d The Premier will appoint the commissione~s way-I do not mind either-but it is recog­ and approve their secret determinations. nised that when the Acting Speaker is on They report to the Premier. Last Friday at his feet, there shall be silence. the conference of the Urban Development Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the Association in Surfers Paradise the Minister Opposition) (12.42 p.m.): On behalf of the for Main Roads made the National Party's Opposition I move the following amend­ attitude overwhelmingly clear. I could quote ment- what he said from the newspaper report and also at first hand because he had already "Omit all words after 'that' and insert said in this Parliament what he said last in lieu thereof the words- Friday. The Minister for Justice and 'the Bill be withdrawn and redrafted Attorney-General also was present at the to provide for a fair and impartial dinner. The Minister for Local Government redistribution of electoral boundaries was reported in "The Courier-Mail" as having for the whole of the State by a com­ said- mission headed by a Supreme "I told the Premier (Mr. Bjelke~Petersen): Court judge'." 'If you want the boundaries rigged, let me The amendment is simple and self-explana­ do it and we'll stay in power for ever'." tory. It seeks nothing more than a calm, Mr. Frawley: He was joking. considered review of the Electoral Districts Act in its entirety to permit a full, fair Mr. BURNS: He was not joking when he redistribution under the supervision ;)f a said it here in the House. He now argues Supreme Court judge. that that was when he was a back-bencher Today this Parliament must defend its own and that what back-benchers say does not credibility. Labor's amendment provides that count. He went on- opportunity. If there is a scrap of courage, "If you don't do it, people will say a scrap of conscience and a skerrick of you are stupid." sincerity left within the Liberal members of That is what Mr. Hinze thinks of this this House they will support Labor's amend­ exercise. ment. This is their chance to profess their own policies. There is no doubt that coalition He continued- controversies of recent weeks surrounding "In South Australia, Mr. Steele Hall this legislation have left Queenslanders dis­ redistributed himself out of office. illusioned and bewildered and, as I said "I don't think you'll be able to blame during the introductory debate last Thursd<:y, Joh or me of doing anything like that." Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill 2523

He said it last Friday at the urban develop­ It is, as "The Courier-Mail" cartooned on ment conference; he said it last Friday night the same day, a four-man circus, with Sun­ at the co-operative federation conference; he dance Sparkes and Ringo Evans selling the said it in this Parliament when he was a tickets while the Kingaroy Kid bounces Billy back-bencher; he said it on "This Day the Babe through the political hoops. I have Tonight" when he debated the matter with never seen a more distressing cartoon, but it me. So I think it is a fair, clear indication appeared in "The Courier-Mail", the news­ from one of the responsible members of the paper that supports the Government. Here National Party of that party's attitude to the is another cartoon saying, "If you want to rigging of boundaries. stay a partner in this act you'll jump when I tell you." It presents the spectacular coali­ The Local Government Minister's sneering tion-Joh and his faithful pet Bill jumping remarks are an insult to the intelligence of through the redistribution hoop. Tremen­ Queenslanders, and a repulsive, frightening dous! smear on the respectability of our parliamen­ tary system. Before so-called independent "The Courier-Mail", in its editorial, said electoral commissioners are appointed, he of the Treasurer- declares that they must be corrupt because "Mr. Knox has not proved a strong they are going to rig the boundaries so that leader. He gives the impression of trying the Government can never be voted out of to hide his silence in his own Government office. Their sole capacity must be a capa­ by lambasting the safely distant Govern­ city to rig the electoral boundaries according ment in Canberra-a lion abroad, a lamb to the decree of himself, the Premier and the at home." National Party. It is akin to assigning Darcy Dugan to investigate a gaol break. The amendment proposed by the Opposition will allow Liberal members in the House to Again I remind honourable members that rescue their party from such humiliation. "The Courier-Mail" is the newspaper that They can vote for their own policy. In case asks the people of this State to vote for the some may have forgotten that policy, let me National-Liberal Government. At the time of repeat it as reported by their president, Mrs. every election over the last 20 years it has Yvonne McComb, in an article in "The said, "After considering the pros and cons Courier-Mail" headed "Electoral justice too of the case, we say, 'Vote for the Liberal important for hasty decisions"- and National Parties.'" It has promoted honourable members opposite and their cause "This convention supports any and all for 20 years. But this is what "The Courier­ moves for a fair and equitable redistribu­ Mail" editorial said last Friday under the tion of electorate boundaries in Queens­ headline "An Unreal Coalition"- land within the life of the present Parlia­ ment of Queensland and to this end moves "The amendment introduced into Par­ that- liament yesterday does nothing more than allow a redistribution and election this year (a) That the numbers of electors in on the same discreditied zone system." any electorate shall not vary from the quota by more than 10 per cent of the We are to have a gerrymander on a gerry­ quota; mander. (b) Electorates be based on communi­ While the Treasurer shivers in insipid ties of interest, demographic similarities, silence, the Premier publicly brands him and geographic features, communication his Liberal colleagues as "scabs and hypo­ links, similarity of industry and proxi­ mity of community centres and wherever crites". I did not think that "scabs" and possible provincial centres should be words of that sort were used in the National entirely within the one electorate; Party. I thought it was considered terrible (c) The number of electorates to be for people in the union movement to use kept at the present level; and words such as those. (d) That one of the redistribution The Treasurer talks of the impartiality of commissioners be a judge of the Sup­ Cabinet while the non-elected State President reme Court." of the National Party can predict its decis­ So Labor's amendment gives the Liberals ions. Mr. Sparkes is saying from day to day an opportunity to adopt that policy-a full, what Cabinet is going to do, what this Par­ fair redistribution with a Supreme Court liament is going to do and what the mem­ judge as chairman. But why, I ask, are the bers he directs are going to do. It is little members of the National and Liberal Parties wonder that "The Courier-Mail" said in the afraid of the judiciary? Why are they timid same editorial last Friday- of justice-electoral justice or any other. fori? "The State redistribution turmoil has of justice? The Government's alternative IS confirmed what many Queenslanders al­ a predetermined rort in which Mr. Sparkes ready knew-that since the retirement of and Mr. Evans are the sinister, shadowy former Deputy Premier Sir Gordon Chalk map-readers. the Government has become a one-man There was a time in this State when band led by lone maestro Mr. Bjelke­ Parliament protected democracy; today it Petersen." aborts it. We have neighbouring seats that 2524 Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977) and Another Act, &c., Bill vary by as much as 73 per cent, and towns honourable member for Townsvilie (Dr. within a few miles of each other with sharply Scott-Young) was reported to have referred differing voting standards. The Deputy to the proposed redistribution as- Premier held up a map the other day. Ask "A vicious sort of snipping at electorates anyone to have a look at the map of here and there to further strengthen the Kurilpa. Ask anyone why the provincial position of Joh Bjelke-Petersen." seat of Mackay would go over the river to North Mackay when in Maryborough That article further reported- the seat stops at the river bank, with Tinana "He was calling on delegates not to being included in the Isis electorate. Why further antagonise the National Party. He does the Government make fish of one and said the National Party's proposal for flesh of another? Why do we have legis­ partial redistribution was retaliation against lation before us today which precludes Mt. the Liberal Party's policy on three-cornered Isa, Mornington Island, Burketown and all contests." those other towns in that area from being There we had a Liberal member of Par­ dealt with as country towns, but allows other liament addressing a Liberal Party conference towns that vote for Government members and saying, "Look, don't antagonise the to be classed as country towns in country National Party any more or they will rig areas with greater voting rights than people the boundaries some more. You've got to let on Mornington Island and at Burketown, this man do what he wants. You've got to Camooweal, Dajarra or Ma:lbon? let him carry on. You've got to let him carry on in an arrogant, dictatorial fashion." Cabinet solidarity is a recognised part of our parliamentary system. However, it Are we to have a fresh gerrymander ceases to be a responsible institution when every time the National Party and the Liberal it is misused by a ruthless 28 per cent Party have a squabble? Last Friday "The National Party to force a non-elected, arti­ Courier-Mail" newspaper commented- ficial majority in this Parliament. Whenever "It would be totally indefensible if the Premier decides on whatever issue he electoral justice in Queensland were to be declares, with the aid of the eight Liberal made a pawn in inter-party manoeuvres Judases he will be able to command this or a means of the Nationals chastising their Parliament as he wishes. Mr. Sparkes and ally." Mr. Evans, with Liberal consent, wiU be For once "The Courier-Mail" was correct. installed as the de facto administrators of If this legislation is successful, the Parlia­ Queensland. There is no point to Liberal ment will ~become a vehicle for intercoalition conventions if policies are to be vetted by warfare. We will be called upon to adjudi­ the faceless busybodies of the National Party cate every time Yvonne McComb and Bob while the Treasurer nods obedient assent. Sparkes differ on TV. The question is not I remind the Liberals, particularly the whether a redistribution should be held but Liberal Ministers, that in the 1962 Federal on what terms it should be conducted. No­ redistribution the National Party (then the one can justify a redistribution that is ordered Country Party) did not show the same meek in malice and based upon terms of reference coalition allegiance to its Liberal partners. that ensure its inconsistency before it begins. It joined with the A.L.P. in the Parliament The National Party seeks not only to to defeat the electoral proposals supported pardon a political felony but to prostitute by the Liberals. Don't let Mr. Bjelke-Peter­ it still further. Today is the test of strength sen tell them now that there is Cabinet for the Liberal Party. The members in solidarity. It didn't count to Black Jack this House have the choice between Labor's McEwen and others. When their own elect­ amendment and sickly surrender to the Pre­ oral interests were at stake, Jack McEwen, mier. They must declare themselves as Peter Nixon and Doug Anthony didn't care either loyal Liberals or traitors. !f th:y a hoot for coalition harmony or Cabinet waiver, wither or wander, the Prem1er wlll solidarity. If the Liberal members in this be proved right. in the eyes of all Queens­ House bow to the legislation now before us, Ianders they wiU be, as he said, scabs and they may as well defect completely from hypocrites. Those are his words about the their principles and re-form officially as the Liberal Party, not mine. Their policies will George Street Branch of the National Party. be worthless and their election promises dis­ Their policies are worthless if they are credited. They will be the lost column betrayed by their own Ministers in Cabinet. of the Queensland political system and the The Liberals are no longer in coalition with prostitutes of their own pious principles. the National Party; they are in captivity. Today, through this amendment, Labor gives Cabinet solidarity, in its present excess, is this Parliament the opporhmity to escape the instrument of their suffocation. from the b;-:oted hatreds of the outside I believe that Queenslanders throughout National Party management committee. We the State are astounded at the malice that have the opportunity to correct injustices motivates this legislation. It is unthinkable and inequalities that pollute the parliamentary that our entire electoral system can be cast system of this State. Today Liberals have into undemocratic upheaval through an act a choice between being Liberals or losers­ of repc1lsive reprisal by the National Party permanent losers. It is time to take Parlia­ against its Government colleague. In the ment back to the people rather thaP to 20 March edition of "The Sunday Mail" the quarantine it as the National Party r:ropos~s. Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977) and Another Act, &c., Bill 2525

Let ParliZ!ment, as a democratic institution, The first essential to having boundaries declare that it believes in democratic elec­ adjusted is a permanent commission headed tions. Let us by all means have a redistribu­ by a Supreme Court judge. Because of his tion, but a redistribution that is seen to be knowledge of the law a Supreme Court fair; a redistribution that is based on terms judge is the best person to head such a that ensure justice rather than pervert it. body, which governs the destiny of the It is futile for the Treasurer to pretend that State, our electoral system and our demo­ this legislation is separate from the question cracy. Surely this body which draws electoral of redistribution. If his contention was boundaries should be headed by a Supreme correct, there would be no need for the Court judge. My first point is that that is present haste. Even his own party supporters embodied in our amendment. We argued disbelieve him. The Premier has made it this when the 1971 Bill was debated but clear that the two are related intimately. the Liberals and the Nationals voted together While the Treasurer pretends that the coali­ against our proposition. That does not make tion survives in harmony, the Premier it wrong. It is now more necessary than describes his Liberal partners as "sea ':ls and ever, particularly in the light of the public hypocrites". As a political duet the Premier fighting between the National and Liberal and the Treasurer remind me of a similar Party leaders, with people calling one another political union, that is, the famous "Peace derogatory names. There is no harmony in our Time" agreement between Hitler and between the National and Liberal parties. Chamberlain shortly before the outbreak of [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] World War II. I recommend the amendment to all Mr. HOUSTON: For a stavt, we should Queenslanders who believe in the democratic look at the existing legislation and try to system that our parents and those before analyse why the Government is so intent on them gave so much to establish. preserving it and having only a pavtial redistribution instead of enacting new leglis­ Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba) (12.56 p.m.): lation that would, I beHeve, saltisfy all I am very happy to support the amendment members of the Chamber as weJ,l as the moYed by the Leader of the Opposition-- members of the public. Government Members interjected. The existing legislation specifies four zones. From experience we know that the quotas in Mr. HOUSTON: If the honourable mem­ some western areas are very close to half bers who are interjecting had as much back­ of t may be said that :there 13,000 electors and for the member next door are at present so many Liberal members, in Flinders and the other electorates in the so many National Party members and so Electoral Districts Act (22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill 2527

many members of the Ausrtralian Labor incidentally, happened to be a Minister of Party. But I am not so much concerned the Crown. There we had these two seats­ about who represents areas as I am with Mundingburra and Charters Towers. I giVmg the people the right to equal repre­ had 9,000 electors on the roll and there were, sentation. We support the amendment and I think, 3,700 electors on the roll of Charters I suggest, as my leader suggested, thart if Towers because the A.L.P. wanted to make Liberal members want to show that they are absolutely certain that all western seats would not prepared to sit back and be dominated go to it. by the National Party in this House, they, too, In my early days when I was a very pro­ will support the amendment. minent member of the A.L.P. (and a very Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (2.28 illustrious one) out in the far western area p.m.}: I was born and bred in the back of Cloncurry, our member was 'the late country, of very poor parents, and conse­ J ohnny Mullan, who, I think, for nearly a quently I did not have, shall I say, the mos·t score of years was the Minister for Justice luscious food that many other people had. and Attorney-'General in various Labor Gov­ For 27 years I worked in ,the Railway ernments. Naturally as a very great believer Department as an engineman under various in the A.L.P. in those days I used to do vicious A.L.P. Governments. When I think of quite a lot of campaigning for J ohnny. As some of the food that I ate in railway quart­ a matter of fact, I was the secretary of the ers out in rthe back country, I realise why it is Cloncurry branch of the A.L.P. when I tha:t my stomach is of the cast-iron variety. was not the president. It was really funny I have thought in recent years that nothing on polling day. We were lucky if in the that I saw, ate or read could make me whole of the Flinders electorate, as it was vomit; but, when the Leader of the Oppo­ named then, we could rake up 1,200 people. sition moved his amendment, I went outside If 1,200 people voted in the Flinders electorate and vomited. I have never known anything to send Johnny Mullan back to Parliament so, shall I say, putridly partial as that -usually by about 800 votes to 400 or amendment. It asks this House to agree 900 to 300-that was something out of the 'to a redistribution of electoral boundaries bag. I will be quite honest with you, 1that are, in the words of the amendment, Mr. Deputy Speaker; we had to use quite fair and impartial. Fancy that coming a lot of ghosts in order to build the number from the A.L.P.! up to 1,200. When I entered the Queensland Parliament Mr. Lee: Out of the cemetery, were they? there were 62 seats. There was then a drift, as there always is, in political fortunes. Mr. AIKEN§: Yes. There were votes The wheel of polirtical favour turned and cast for people who had been dead and after rhe 1949 Federal election, when rthe gone for many years, but their names were Menzies-led Liberal Party swept the A.L.P. still on the roll. out of office in Canberra and again assumed Federal control of Australia, the A.L.P. in The A.LP. was a party large in numbers, Queensland, if I may use the vulgar vern­ and some of them, of course, had ability. acular, got the wind up. Its members decided We have in this Assembly today the pitiable to hold a redistribution of electoral bound­ remnants of that once great party. Every aries to see if rthey could ensure that they time I look at the 11 members of the A.L.P. would be returned for ever and ever and I am reminded of 11 white-ant-eaten po!>ts ever. And so they introduced probably the on a fence in a ghost town, because that is most infamous redistribution of electoral the only simile that I can apply to them. boundaries ever placed on the Statute Book Here they are, these 11 white-ant-eaten poli­ of any Government anywhere. tical posts grumbling about a proposed re­ First of all, they increased the number distribution of electoral boundaries in the State of Queensland at the present time. of seats in this Assembly from 62 to 75- a jump of 13 seats, which was completely I have very pronounced views on political unwarranted and unnecessary. Then they representation. I have always held to the divided the State into four zones: the western view that electorates should not be divided zone, the northern zone, the central division or, should I say, registered on the basis of zone and, of course, the beloved Brisbane enrolment alone. I have always believed zone. I am not going to dilate on it. that it should take the votes of about six Frankly, every time I think of it, I wonder people who live in Brisbane to equal the just how low political parties can sink. vote of one elector who lives out in the far­ flung western or northern areas of this State I represented the electorate of Munding­ and produces the wealth of this State on burra up in the Townsville area. With which the capital cities fatten and batten. 62 seats in the Assembly I had about 12,500 voters on the roll, but with the extra 13 I speak now from years of experience seats that were shoved into this Assembly and as an honest and sincere man who by that infamous redistribution of electoral never has to fear the cracking of a party boundaries, my electoral enrolment dropped whip, who never has to look over his shoulder to 9,000. But the seat that adjoined me was and see "hether "Big Boss Brother" is the seat of Charters Towers, which was ·listening, who never has to run to the tele­ held, of course, by a Labor man who, phone after he makes a speech and say to 2528 Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill

Archie Bevis or "Horse-and-Child" or Tom We know, of course, that there is some Burns, or somebody else, "Look, I said this disputation between the two branches of in the House a few minutes ago. I want the Government, the Liberal Party and the you to excuse me. It was a slip of the National Party. It is a matter of complete tongue; I didn't mean to say it." and then indifference to me whether they fight or start to slobber and "globber". I do not whether they do not. I have always viewed have to do those things. I think of what my political future with equanimity, and is ri;ht and fair and what is just, and I whatever the problem of the day happens say it. to be, I will grapple with it. If a man con­ I really think there are too many members stitutes himself my enemy politically, then, in this Assembly-far too many. Instead of of course, he has to take all that is coming 82 members, there ought to be not more to him. If he constitutes himself my friend, than 60. Of those 60 members, just then I forget about him and turn on those speaking in round figures, I would put who constitute themselves my enemies. It five members in Brisbane, Ipswich and the is a case of my hand against them and their surrounding area, and five would be more hand against me, and I am happy with the than enough. Then, of course, I would outcome. apportion the rest of the members, and the But the point is, Mr. Deputy Speaker, farther I went away from Brisbane the more 1th~t these two parties-the Liberal Party members I would have in those areas. and the National Party-are fighting for their Let me make an honest, sincere suggestion own individual survival. Self-preservation to the House. I understand that the Leader is the first law of n3Jture, whether it applies of the Opposition and the Deputy Leader to individuals or to political parties. I of the Opposition spoke of the need to estab­ think we can let them seDtle their own lish an electoral commission with a Supreme differences as best t'hey can. I know this, Court justice as chairman. Good God! That and I say it without qualification: if ,they are is the last m

vet unborn to make this State the best State as an instrument to drive a destructive wedge in the Commonwealth, and to make our between the Liberal Party and the National standard of living the highest in the civilised Party. world. We can do that only by looking fairly I cannot bring myself ~o believe that mem­ at everything that comes before us. If we beDs of either rt:he Liberal Pm~ty or tlle are going rto run around and pick quarrels National Party will fall for the blatant trap and fight with each other, and if we are going tern adage----

Mr. PORTER: We should be very careful I want to warn people who tend to use of exchanging too many bruising pleasant­ the redistribution issue as a platform from ries. My own strong recommendation is that which to do some sort of sophisticated there should be a moratorium on caustic character assassination that this does all of criticisms from all of us. us no good at all. It is unfair; it is wrong in fact; and it will not go down with the I say to a great many people that, in the electorate. It is high time that certain endeavours to achieve a redistribution and sections of the media started thinking about to get it close to the aims which some of us culpable bias and asking themselves what profess to serve, it is both dangerous and reason there is for this sort of behaviour. singularly unfair to denigrate the Premier. There is much done and said by people in Mr. Moore: To sell papers. my party and by our alleged friends to suggest that the Premier is a very peculiar Mr. PORTER: Probably the major reason sort of chap, a kind of vicious, vindictive, is that they do not think along the same dictatorial person. Those of us who have been philosophical or political lines as we think in politics for a long time and are the vet­ and our success in some way outrages them. erans of many party meetings at which sev­ They cannot imagine how their intellectual eral vital matters have been discussed know capacity can be so inferior in terms of that this is not true at all. One can only results achieved to ours as shown by what point to newspaper headlines alleging it. we decide to do. Nobody can point to a fact to prove it. From my side of politics I make it quite I condemn the amendment as merely a poor plain that people embroiled in this redistri­ and shoddy gimmick by the A.L.P. to try bution should never forget the debt that this to exacerbate what it believes to be a major State-and in my view the whole nation­ difference but which in my experience is owes to the Premier. He foresaw with total only a minor difference between the parties accuracy, much earlier than most people, on this side of the House. what was going to come from the Whitlam experiments. Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (3.2 p.m.): If one is around this place long enough, it is amazing Mr. Moore: And Whitlam is still licking the changes that one sees. I suppose the his wounds. most outstanding example of this would be the remarks now coming from the bastion Mr. PORTER: That is quite true. There is of liberalism in this State, a former organiser no doubt that history will say that the Prem­ of the Liberal Party in Queensland and one ier was the rock on which the Whitlam who formerly led the ginger group on the argosy foundered. At the stage we started back benches of this Chamber in fighting fighting Whitlam, many people in high places and campaigning for liberalism throughout in my party and in other parties said, "Oh, this State. What do we hear from him today? they have been elected. We have to go along The honourable member for Toowong carried with them. We must not always be difficult the torch for the National Party Premier. He to get along with." But thanks to the Premier's spoke not for the Liberal Party for which he leadership we took an obdurate, unyielding, fought on so many occasions. I suppose if undeviating, firm stand. That stand, which there is one thing I have to do today it is to was laughed at in the other States during congratulate the Premier on the way in which the early stages of the Whitlam years, was over the years he has succeeded in com­ almost revered by them later on. We assumed pletely breaking up the Liberal ginger group the leadership of the free element of Aus­ who were on the back benches of this House tralia and we demonstrated that leadership in at the beginning of his Premiership in this a most unmistakable fashion at the polls. In State. He certainly has been very successful every poll test-Federal election, State elec­ in getting the old gingers coated with sugar tion, Senate poll and referendums-we have so that they are now bits of lolly who are set records for the defeat of Labor unknown prepared to do whatever he requires. in this country since the beginning of feder­ The Liberal Party has now had its chance. ation. There is no question therefore about what we did and whether what we did was It had its chance last week to show how right. strongly it really stood for the principles that have been espoused by the Liberal Party Equally, there can be no question about through the years. St. Patrick's Day 1977 the role that the Premier played in all of will go down as the day on which the Liberal this. I know, because I was one of the Party in Queensland died. It will go down as the day on which the Liberal Party in earliest on my side of politics to rally to this House committed suicide. his support. I will always rally to the support of anybody who fights for the principles in A few months ago, only the Premier and which I believe deeply. Without doubt, the the secretary of the National Party in Queens­ land (Mr. Evans) were speaking of a partial preservation of a federal system and indi­ redistribution. Of course, the Liberal Party vidual freedom against the forces of socialism felt that it was not getting justice in Queens­ and centralism was a very deep and abiding land; it was not getting a fair deal. Its principle and just as I fought for it in the convention at Toowoomba a few months ago past, I will fight for it in the future. therefore took certain decisions to give it the 2532 Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill opportunity to become, as it saw it, the senior In order to make sure that they did net party in the coalition in Queensland. This is, get the chop, these Liberals decided to go incidentally, the only Parliament in the Com­ along with the Bill. The parliamentary monwealth in which the Liberal Party has to Liberal Party is now dead. It killed itself play second fiddle to the National Country off last week. and as a party Liberals have Party. At that conference the Liberals become merely camp followers of the decided to nominate candidates against some National Party in this State. I would remind National Party members. They decided to Liberal and National Party members that revert to so-called three-cornered contests in we are here as representatives of the people which they would nominate candidates against of Queensland. We are here to do what the Country Party members who, in the opinion people want, not just what we want. We of the Liberal Party, had not been doing a are here to do not what we might want proper job in this House. They decided that to do in order to preserve ourselves, but some of these National Party members to bring about a fair and just redistribution should be replaced by Liberals who they felt so that the people of Queensland can be would do a much better job than would the properly represented. I believe that the only National Party members. way in which we can get a fair and just redistribution is to adopt the amendment Mr. Lamont: That's not right; you haven't moved by the Leader of the Opposition, which done your homework. would bring about a fair and equitable Mr. CASEY: Why would they want to redistribution under a commission headed replace a member of this Parliament unless by a Supreme Court judge, someone who is they thought he was not doing a good job? completely above the burly-burly of politics. That is what happened and that must be But because of the instinct for self-preserva­ the only reason why these so-called coalition tion which Liberal Party members have partners-and "partners" is the term they shown in this Chamber in recent weeks, we use-would oppose each other. are not going to see this. But the Liberals have now seen a way And what thanks did they get for sacrificing in which they can get around this sitnation themselves at the altar of the Premier? He that they have created in order to save their called them "scabs" and "hypocrites", not own skins, and that is by not opposing the on one occasion but two days in a row. That Premier-their parliamentary leader-in this is the only thanks Liberal Party members got; Assembly. They are following this resolve to that is the only thanks the ginger group such an extent that last week we even saw got for completely subjugating themselves tD the Deputy Premier introducing this Bill the Premier over the past few years. That for and on behalf of the Premier. and all is exactly what he thinks of them. I the Liberal members, including the ones who accept that a man in his position would think over the years have been objecting and of them in that way because of the way they protesting and putting forward their own carry on. He sees the way they are grovelling ideas, followed suit. They followed like now in order to preserve themselves. sheep because they are concerned not with their own party or the electors of Queensland, One other point is that the Premier knew·, :who are. the most important people of all and this is the tmth of the matter, of several m th1s 1ssue, but with self-preservation. members of the Liberal Party in this State who were prepared to join the National Instead of standing up to the Premier for Party if the liberal Party did not go along and on behalf of the people of Queensland. with this measure. At least six Liberal they have since that day been runnincr around back-bench members of this Assembly had Parliament House with maps working out been approached and were ready to cross how they can survive. One can go round over and join the National Party in order the corridors and into the rooms here and to achieve that end. see them poring over maps. They are not concerned with how any redistribution Mr. Byrne interjected. resulting from this Bill will affect the people of Queensland; they are concerned only with Mr. CASEY: The honourable member for how they will be affected. They voted for Belmont was not one of them. I will not the Premier on this occasion because they put him in .that category. However, he knew full well that if they did not they knows who they were. Some of them are would be the ones who would get the chop. not very far away from him and their electorates are not very far away from his We know full well that here in the south­ electorate. They are the electorates that will east corner of the State there are several be in doubt. Liberal-held seats that are well below the quota and will be affected by a redistribution. The Bill is not a Bill designed to bring They will probably be run into one another. about electoral redistribution. It is to ensure If these electorates are left in their present ~hat the National Party keeps power in rhis state, they will revert to the Labor Party Sta1e. In order to retain power, tile Premier at the next election. These are the electorates is pulling into line his camp-followers-the that wiJJ be split up, and the members Liberal members of this House. What they representing them are interested only in how do not realise is that, by supporting the Bill they will be affected, not tile way in which as they are, they are killing off democracy. the people and communities will be divided. Never again will an electoral redistribution Electoral Districts Act (22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill 2533

Bill of •this type have to come before the Press recently as having called the Premier House. Whenever someone in charge of the a monster. Again my words have been taken affairs of the State wants a redistribution of out of contex'. What I said was that if a small area of the State or of the whole of you irritate pe Jple they may become bigger the State, he can have one without referring than they appeared in the first instance. That lthe matter rto the democratically elected is exactly what happened in the case of the representatives of the people of Queensland. Premier. The Premier is not ~he small If any blame is to be apportioned for that, man that Whitlam and most of the socialist it must be laid fairly and squarely at rthe A.L.P. members thought he was. He is a man feet of the Liberal Party in Queensland. of immense intellect, dedication and determ­ ination. He dot's not deviate. I am quite Dr. SCOTI-YOUNG (Townsville) (3.11 sure that if he had been in the same position p.m.): I have just listened tional outbursts It has given us prosper1ty and an image in about the Bill, not only i. m members of

can to embarrass this Government, and to to the State Labor Party that it was not tell the Press and the public that the coalition offering, and did not appear able to provide is divided. As to the Opposition's suggestion in the future, the sort of government that that this Government does 1 .ot possess the the coalition Government in Queensland confidence of the people, it needs but small had offered over the previous 17 or 18 years. reflection to realise that in 1974 this Govern­ We should reflect on that because our ment was elected with the largest majority responsibilities as members of the Govern­ and the greatest support of any Government ment are threefold. in Queensland Government is falling is their responsibility as political units apart-and that is why we see an outcry by to try to increase and advance their circum­ our own political organisations at the stance and ,their power. But c .1ce we try to moment. One does not have to be very old tmrrsfer what political parties are trying to to realise that in 1971, when the redistribu­ achieve into the realm of government and tion question arose, similar statements were Parliament and say that therefore tho political made. If honourable members were to read parties in Parliament should be dru g exacilly the newspapers of that time they would see the same thing, we totally misread and mis­ articles and headlines similar to those appear­ understand the situation. The pr1mary goal ing today, such as, "Our State Government of a politkal party once it is in Parliament is near collapse", "Coalition ready to break up" not to achieve, maintain and increase its and, "State Government in crisis". power, but rather to see that the people it It is very easy to understand the existing represents and governs are better represented circumstances. When two political parties and governed and to ,ensure that it achieves outside of the Parliament are trying to what is best •and most beneficial for the further (and quite rightly so) their own people. particular powers and bases for establishing While political parties are understandably themselves as political units, it is quite right anxious to further their own po11tical and reasonable for the Press to comment on interests, once they are in office their respon­ it, but the Press seems to think that there is sibility alters. The responsibility imposed on no differentiation between the political wing them is not that of politics and power for and the parliamentary wing in political their own sake but good Government and organisations. To make that wrong judg­ sensible management from the people's point ment is to completely confuse the entire of view. The public is not very much con­ situation. That is what has happened and cerned about which political organisation is that is the situation that the A.L.P. is using paramount in the Government. It is con­ in trying to continue to confuse the public. cerned mainly about what sort of government We are told by Opposition members that the parties once they are in Parliament, and, passing the clause in the Bill would be particularly in Government, will give. The tantamount to disaster for us. I shall point public know that the Queensland coalition out to Opposition members the circumstances Government over 20 years has given the that will exist even if this clause were not State the greatest boost and boom it has ever passed. A redistribution can be set up now seen. irrespective of whether this clause goes In 1974, while there was a rejection of through. Admittedly if there were to be an the Labor Party's attitude at the Federal election this year, it would not be held on level, there was also just as much a statement those boundaries. Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill 2535

Mr. Houston interjected. I point out that the passage of this amend­ ing legislation v, ill not in any way mean Mr. BYRNE: However, the new boundaries that we are enabling a redistribution that would operate after this year. Therefore, could not otherwise have been made. A the redistribution would become effective at redistribution could be made tomorrow and some future time-unless, of course, the an election held on those boundaries early unusual situation should arise of a different next year. On the other hand, an election party finding itself in Government, and I could be held this year on the existing assure the honourable member for Bulimba boundaries, and the boundaries resulting from that there is no reason for him to con­ the redistribution could apply after the new template that happening. year. Mr. Houston: You would still be sub­ I ask honourable members to note how servient to the National Party. patently absurd it would have been if the Liberal Party, on a quite sensible motion, Mr. BYRNE: I can understand why the were to go to the public and say, "We think honourable member says the Liberal Party that it is worth while creating enormous is subservient to the National Party. That coalition disharmony; we think it is worth is all he has to offer in his attempt to point while trying to break up a Government­ to disunity and disharmony in the coalition. over the tiniest technicality, which only brings Mr. Casey: Why did J oh say you were the Electoral Districts Act into a c;.ommon­ scabbing? sense stance." Because we have computerised our electoral roll, we can now carry out Mr. BYRNE: The newspapers rang me a redistribution on the most up-to-date up and said, "What did you think of the figures. The A.L.P. may not like to have Premier's comment th&t the Liberal Party a redistribution based on the most up-to-date was scabbing on the Government?" I figures-and I wouldn't be surprised at that, said to myself, "I haven't been in politics because the people who are increasing the for a great period of time, but I have been numbers on the rolls are the sort of people associated with many articles in newspapers who would not be supporting them. and I cannot recall a single one relating to me that adequately represented what I had What becomes very clear is that there actually said." So I said I intended to make is a total misunderstanding by the Opposition no comment about it, because I did not neces­ even as to what is involved in the Bill before sarily believe what the Press has written; I the House. The amendment moved by would rather talk to the man myself and see the Opposition is, I contend, of a totally what he meant when he said that, if he said different substance altogether from the pro­ that at all. posed amendment to the Act. It talks about a fair and impartial redistribution, Mr. Houston: He admitted it the next day. whereas the Bill before the House relates to a mere technicality, enabling a redistribu­ Mr. BYRNE: Once again, expressed by tion, if there is to be one, to be based on the media. I have not had that expression the most up-to-date figures. How stupid made to me, and I am quite certain that people in this Parliament would appear to is not an expression that we of the Parlia­ be-what buffoons they would appear to be­ mentary Liberal Party will hear expressed if they went out to the public and said, about us. "We oppose legislation enabling redistribu­ Once again I point out to Opposition tion to be carried out on the most up-to-date members that they should not confuse or figures." That is effectively what the Opposi­ confute the differences that eX'ist between t,ion said when it opposed the introduction the parties on the political wing and on of this Bill, and it is effectively what it is the parliamentary wing; their responsibilities saying now by moving this amendment, which a:re clearly different. One deals with gaining has absolutely nothing to do with what is power and the other deals with effective proposed in the Bill itself. I find it difficult government and effective management of to comprehend how such an amendment the State's economy. would even be acceptable to the Parliament. The situation is clear. Whether this Bill Mr. Casey: Did you support three-cornered is passed or not, a redistribution could occur contests in Toowoomba? today or tomorrow.

Mr. BYRNE: Do I support three-cornered Mr. Houston: You know that isn't true. contests in Toowoomba? Mr. BYRNE: It is true. Through you, Mr. Mr. Casey: Did you support them in Deputy Speaker, I ask the honourable gentle­ Toowoomba? man whether it is a fact that commissioners could be appointed to set up a redistribution Mr. BYRNE: I do not know of any this week. circumstance where there was a three­ cornered contest in Toowoomba. I have Mr. Houston: No, because you can't not been associated with a three-cornered redistribute the Mt. Isa or Mackay elector­ contest in Toowoomba. ates. They have to remain as they are. 2536 Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill

l\Ir. BYRNE: In order to explain to the The amendment is inconsistent with what members of the Opposition, the question I is being proposed in the Bill and therefore asked was-- I oppose it. It is a clea; .a!tempt ~o create in the Government a diVISIOn which does Mr. Houston: That's not a redistribution; not exist and to try to make the media it's only a partial one. repeat the sort of speculation it advanced in Mr. Lamont: It is quite obvious that the 1971, which is destructive of the GC?vern­ answer to your question is, "Yes". You ment because it makes the people feel mcor­ don't ask donkeys difficult questions. They rectly that we are ill at ease. V>je are have not done their homework and they not ill at ease. The Government _IS fi~m don't know. and stable in its resolve and realises Its respor ~ibility is not for power but for ~he Mr. BYRNE: The honourable member electOJ dte-to see that Queensland remams summed up the case fairly succinctly. properiy, sensibly and economically managed now and in the future. I suppose I should not waste my time arguing with members of the Opposition. Mr. LAMONT (South Brisbane) (3.35 So far in this debate today, at tile intro­ p.m.): I propo~e to make a statement in ductory stage and during previous debates the form of a:, accusation. I accuse the in this place, what I have had an opport­ Opposition of t J al and utter hypocrisy ~n unity to do in most of my speeches has supporting this amendment. Eve~ybody m been to correct the mistakes, miscalculations Parliament House, from the Premier down, and incorrect statistics that members of the knows very well that the Leader of the Opposition, and particularly the honourable Opposition and his cricket team want the member for Bulimba, bring before this Par­ Bill as it is to be passed. All know very liament. I do not know on what research well that if the Liberal Party or if any bac~­ they base their statistics but on nearly every benchers belonging to either pa_rty on tl~Js occasion one, if not more of them, uses side of the House had voted agamst the BI~l totally incorrect statistics. last Thursday, or if it e:ve_r looked as. If more members would be s1ttmg on that side Two things are clear. The Bill before of the House than on this side, they would us does not deal with redistribution and have selected two or three bunnies to go to does not in any way change the circum­ the George Hotel and not be here when the stance as to whether there can be any more count was taken. They are absolutely deter­ of a redistribution than would be possible mined not to do anything to disrupt ~he whether the Bill goes through or not. That passage of the Bill. I make that accusatwn is what I am saying. I am not saying and I would be very interested to hear a that a full redistribution is Leing set up. properly argued denial. The Bill will enable nothing more to hap­ Today the Opposition moved an am~nd­ pen than could have happened if it did not ment which has very properly been descnbed go through, except that it will en::tble the by previous speakers as totally ap,d utterly redistribution to be based on the mcst up-to­ irrelvant to the Bill. Because OppositiOn mem­ date statistics. That is very important for bers have thrown in references to. someone the honourable member for Bulimba to recall. as impartial as a Supreme Court JUdge and used the words "fair" and "impartial" they I hope that honourable members and the seem to think that they will be able to tr!ck public know that Labor wants a redistri­ us into being hustled over to the other s1de bution based on out-of-date figures. I am of the Chamber. They know very well that not surprised. It would probably be of we on this side are too clever not to see assistance to Labor because most of the through those tactics. policies it brings to the public and every­ thing else with which it is associated are As the honourable member for Toowong out-of-date. The exception is that it has has already said, there has been in the Press tried to revamp itself by taking in an and among the public m~1ch ado about !loth­ independent member to give itself a new in"· The Bill addresses rtself to amendmg a Leader of the Opposition in the future. While te~hnicality, and .that techn!cal!tY. h.as to do that is most commendable and while the with computerisatiOn. The Bill, If It IS passed, Labor Party members showed great finesse will have no effect one way ?r .ano~her o.n in choosing a man of higher calibre than whether or not there is a redistnbution ~h1s they are, I can assure them that it will year. It means that there ~ould be an el~ctwn not be of any great benefit to them in on redistributed boundanes, but that IS not the future because their out-of-date polices relevant to the passage of the Bill. are not attractive to the electorate and the Members of the Opposition and SOJ?e economics they offer to the people have been sections of the Press have been at great pams rejected continually and will be rejected in over the past 10 days to paint a backdrop. of the future. redistribution to this Bill. I am not referrmg to all sections of the Press; some reports It is the Government's desire to ensure have been very accurate. They, however, that the people of Queensland enjoy the were the ones that were overlooked becau~e economic management that they have experi­ they were not dramatic enough to be bmlt enced for 20 years and have shown in elec­ up. That backdrop of redistribution to which tion after election that they desire to see I referred is totally out of place on the stage maintained. That is very clear. at this time. Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill 2537

I am not unconcerned about some implica­ us proper, prompt and accurate rolls." That tions of redistribution. It has been said that is all it says. On introducing the Bill the my electorate could be one to be abolished, Deputy Premier said- but I will meet that problem if and when "It is now a practical proposition that it arises. I have faith that my friends and electoral rolls may be prepared by means neighbours where I live and work will support of computer print-outs as they are me irrespective of the boundaries of the required instead of at particular pre­ electorate in which I have my home and determined dates." office. I am not worried about that; I will The predetermined date is 31 December, meet that problem when and if it arises. But and now we have computers that can give let our remarks now be relevant to the us rolls-we all know ,this because we all debate. receive amendments to those rolls in com­ puter print-outs as they are required, This A.L.P. amendment is sheer gimmickry. and this Bill simply facilitates that. As I have already said, the word "fair" has It only goes to show how much members been thrown in. It is a word like "mother­ of the Labor Par;ty and its former Federal hood"-everybody likes it. Because Labor president, Mr. Burns, who was once ,the members throw in the word "fair", they think puppeteer and is now a puppet, are living in that they must automatically gain the support the past. They want us to stick with an of Liberals. I support a fair redistribution­ electoral situation on the printing of rolls incidentally, what I think is fair is very which is not relevant to 1977. They do not obviously different from what the Labor want the mo~ up-to-date services that the Party thinks is fair. I have seen redistribu­ administration can give us. This is really tions for which the Labor Party was respons­ what they are saying-or what they are ible in the past. If they were fair, I certainly pretending to say, because we know privaJtely do not support the Labor Party's understand­ that they are very happy for the Bill to go ing of that word. through and that under no circums,tances would 11 of them be sitting where they are We might all support a fair redistribution, if 30 of us were to cross to the other side but how is that in any way related to a sug­ of ,the Chamber and join them. They are gestion that the Bill should be withdrawn? completely hypocritical about it. They have This Bill as brought down by the Deputy been all huff and puff. Premier last week does not stand in the way of a fair redistribution. I go so far as The Bill certainly does not allow a re­ to say that it does not even stand in the way dis·tribution where before there could not be of the appointment of a Supreme Court one. Without this Bill going through, there judge as an electoral commissioner if that is could have been a redistribution and an what is required-although I doubt that it is. election could have been held six weeks later The Bill does not stand in the way of a fair on ,the old rolls and on the old boundaries. redistribution or in the way of the A.L.P.'s It would have been a curious situation, but amendment. But the amendment is totally it could have happened. Without this Bill unrelated to the Bill, and, other than as going :through, there could have been a sheer gimmickry, I wonder why the A.L.P. redistribution and the Premier could have has bothered to move it. called an election at the end of January. Mr. Moore: On 1 January. A.L.P. members have not given a single reason why the Government's Bill should be Mr. LAMONT: Yes, on 1 January, for that withdrawn. They have not spoken to ,their matter. Now he has the option of calling amendment wt all. They have used their one as early as possible after the rolls are amendment to open up the ques,tion of printed, which will probably only be Decem­ redistribution so that they can say things ber, so in fact all the Bill is doing is giving that they forgot to say last Thursday. Their the Premier an extra month, or two at the argument has been a torrent of abuse at the very outside, to manoeuvre, and why should Premier and the Deputy Premier. It has the Liberal Party, as members of a Govern­ been a careless traipse through the history ment, want to close •the Premier's options of redistribution in this State (but only since on when he can ca11 an election? What a 1957). Honourable members will notice that curious proposition for the Opposition to none of them referred to redistributions sugges't. which occurred when the A.L.P. was in Government. Mr. Frawley: It doesn't matter when he calls an election. As my colleague from Belmont so rightly said, this Bill is really about the machinery Mr. LAMONT: That is right, but these of elections, and these changes that are sug­ are the facts Opposition members are pre­ tending they do not grasp. But we know ges~ed in the Bill were brought about by that they do grasp them. We know their the adminis-trative change-over to computers. stand is all hypocrisy and a facade. They We are simply saying, "This is 1977. Com­ are really at great pains to paint a spHt in puterised rolls are available. Let us not the coalition Government in this Assembly. have a section of an Act which prevents the I am not talking about what presidents of use of the most up-to-date means of giving organisations do outside; I am talking about 2538 Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill

this place where the Government is. A.L.P. Mr. LAMONT: Yes, you. But let me get members think that, because organisations back to the Bill. The Labor Party is have differences, therefore there is a split desperately trying to show a semblance of a in the Government. They think that because split, and it has the help of the media. Last they are so used to being in a political pa.Pty week I gave an interview to a representative where the organisation controls them. They of the Press. I found that the report as are only puppets; we are in fact repre­ presented was the exact opposite of what sentatives of the people. They are only I had said. That is the pains that some representatives of the puppeteers at the sections o£ the Press are taking to give a Queensland Central Executive, and because totally false picture. I was asked was I they have that mental block they •think that disappointed in Mr. Knox. I said, "Certainly an organisational difference of opinion must not. He has done exactly the right thing." also be reflected amongst the members down I added, "I would be disappointed if I were to here, and that is where they make Vheir lose my seat in the long run, but at the fatal mistake. moment he is doing the right thing and he is showing us strong leadership." The first Mr. Frawley: They are kicking in 31- part of the statement was clipped out, so per cent of their salaries to retain their was the last part, and I came across as saying endorsement. that I was disappointed. Mr. LAMONT: That is right; they have to Why is the A.L.P. at such pains, at this pay their executive to retain the goodwill point of time, to provoke a split? I will tell that they

Press does not want Labor Party dirty Enen. will clear the way for a dissolution of They would much rather print up ours, even principle and a redistribu.tion of retributi.on. though when they look into it they will find It provides the opportumty for a techmcal that it is remarkably clean. retaliation by the National Party against the Liberal Party's action in deigning to seek We have the remarkable spectacle of the to contest electorates on a three-corner basis Leader of the Opposition, having an endorsed and to threaten its coalition partner and its candidate for a seat too scared to run and position of power as the greatest numbers­ trying to take on the role of puppeteer in­ holder on the Government benches. Never stead, and cracking at the sheer thought of have I witnessed in this House or outside it the enormity of Gerry Jones as party secre­ so much distrust of an ally since Yalta. tary. He actually went to the point of threat­ ening to resign, but when he found that the Obviously the Bill is going to be passed, executive was not going to back down he with Her Majesty's Opposition dissenting. thought, "I had better scurry back and What I am most concerned about is that the get that resignation off the table because Bill will clear the way for a redistribution it might be accepted." So he came without further reference back to this Parlia­ out and denied that he had cracked ment and without consultation with this under pressure, as he did when he stepped Parliament. The redistribution will take place off the front bench of the Labor Party a without any further challenge at all. It will couple of years ago because he was under take place without the opportunity for any too much pressure then. He has. never yet ~ed recourse to law and without any provision in a State election. He can see himself leadmg for appeal. With the Government's technical an election campaign for the Labor Party, amendment to the Act, which will allow it but he sees himself failing as he is coming to appoint its commissioners, the matter will under pressure and he is cracking up, so come under Executive control. In effect the we get this enormous effort by the A.L.P. to Government is abrogating the rights uf this pretend that there is a split in the Govern­ Parliament to Executive control. ·whatever ment ranks. recommendations the commissioners may Let us get back to the real point-not the make decisions and amendments will be amendment moved by the Leader of the made' finally by the Premier and Cabinet. Opposition, not Gerry Jones, not t!J.e Leader Anybody who has seen Cabinet in action in of the Opposition but the real pomt. Com­ the past few months clearly understands puter print-outs can now be provided by the exactly who would be in control of any Electoral Office. There is no reason in the future redistribution. If the Liberal Party world why we should have a provision in an has been subjugated to the stage where it Act which is not up to date with the believes that it will have any say in future administrative machinery available. So we line drawing, I can only say that it has been come back to the point that this Bill is not sadly hoodwinked. relevant to redistribution. It does not change the position whether or not a redistribution Mr. Lamont: Of course we are not. The could or would take place. I will give a prize commissioners will do the drawings. of a Government ballpoint pen to the journalist who gets that story straight. Mr. JONES: The honourable member for South Brisbane protests too much. He said I also come back to my major point: the that it was a technical problem and the hypocrisy on the opposite side of the House Act has not been changed; the lines have lies in the very fact that last Thursday and been drawn and it is simply a technical today those honourable members have been determined that the Bill will go through amendment. unchanged. If in fact as a Liberal Party But what happened in 1971? The electoral we had voted against it on Thursday, they commissioners made their recommendation, would have had three or four of their boys which was taken to Cabinet and altered about at the George pub when the bells rang 40 to 45 times. Government members saw because they knew very well they were not what happened in 1972 and 1974. Ir; effect, going to provide the numbers to defeat the as parliamentarians, we are abrogatmg our passage of the Bill. I condemn their action rights by allowing the Executive to make the today as hypocrisy. It is wasteful of the decision on our behalf. In this Parliament, time of a good Government that has more a Lower House of elected representatives, the to do in governing the State than to put up Liberals are abrogating their right as elected with the sort of nonsense, fabrication and representatives by allowing the decision to facile argument presented today by those be made by the Executive. The Executive is poor, poverty-stricken puppets of the Aus­ elected, by choice, by the dominant partner tralian Labor Party. in the coalition-by one man. Unless mem­ bers are subservient to him, they 'are noi Mr. JONES (Cairns) (3.53 p.m.): I support recruited. Since the resignation of Sir Gordon the amendment moved by the Leader of the Chalk, the Premier of this State has been Opposition that the Bill be withdrawn and nominating and selecting members of the redrafted to provide for a fair and impartial Liberal Party to make up his Cabinet. redistribution of the eleotoral boundaries within the State of Queensland. The Bill Mr. Frawley interjected. 2540 Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill

Mr. .TONES: The honourable member for The honourable member for Townsville Murrumba should consult with the honour­ said that it is a simple Bill; that it is only to able member for Chatsworth or almost any correct an anomaly. Those remarks were other member. The Premier wiH not deny reiterated by the honourable member for that he tells the Liberals whom he wants .in South Brisbane. When the provisions of Cabinet. The Executive is in a singu.Jar section 23 and section 16 of the Act are read, situation. Liberal members may say that they it is obvious that the amendment is a tech­ believe in the Westminster system but in my nical one, merely changing the terminology opinion it is being undermined, wittingly or "annual roll" to "general roll". unwittingly, by the Liberals if they vote for the measure at this stage. Liberals, by not Mr. Lamont: Can we have that in writing? opposing the measure and supporting the amendment, will al'low this situation to pre­ Mr. JONES: If honourable members oppo­ vail. As elected members under our demo­ site are naive enough to believe that the cratic system they will be precluding their amendment is nothing more than is oont·ained right to participate. in the BiU and that in politics one must not learn to read between the lines, then I suggest The honourable member for Toowong said that they think again. that we on this side are pretending. We are giving the Liberals an opportunity to support The honourable member for Belmont the amendment. I accuse the honourable complained that we are endeavouring to member for Toowong of pretending that b.e confuse the issue by our amendment, which is Vligorously motivated by puritanical prin­ simply seeks to pmvide for a fair and ciples. So far as I oan see, he is engaging in impartial redistr·ibutJion, headed by a Supreme duplicity. This afternoon Liberal members Court judge. If that is confusing to the have only been concerned about trying to get honourable member, then his speech was on the •rcight side of the Premier in order to the epitome of confusion. Government mem­ save their politica'l hides. bers should not fret. The public are not being confused. They are no longer confused. Mr. Lamont interjected. With the way the Government parties have been carrying on in the last few weeks-and Mr. JONES: The honourable member for wi:]] be ca!l'rying on in the next few weeks­ South Brisbane is the worst offender. He the publk will become fuHy aware of what knows that, unless he follows the line is going on. directed by the honourable member for Toowong, he wull be the first one to go. He The honourable member for Belmont is is busily try,ing to clamber aboard the trolley only a tran~ient from the D.L.P., anyway. I in orrder to save his own political hide. It is hope that he and his ilk do to the Liberal ral'her humorous from our side of the House Party what they did to the Labor Party in ·to watch the machinations of those on the 1957. They set in the dry rot; they white­ Government side trying to save their political anted it; they wrecked it from the inside-and hides. To be able to sit here and watch the are they ever fol,lowing that pattern today! If coalition partners in their dilemma is quite the Liberal Party follows that type of member, humorous. boy oh boy, is it in for a shock! If it is to follow that type of member in telling it They pretend that all is well and ·in no where to go, what direction it should take sense is there any disparity between the and that it should support the National Party, parties. There is no criticism by the Liberal the Liberal Party is a spent force in Queens­ Party of their pals in the National Party. land politics. The political commentator on They are denying suggestions of any ri£t and the news who said that the Liberal Party has become the metmpolitan branch of the all the nasty things that have been ~aid. I National Party could not have been more was shocked that the Premier deigned to correct in his assessment of the situation. 'I1he use the word "scab" against his coalition Liberal Party resembles an innocent puppy partners. I did not think he would use that w.addling along at rits master's heel. It does terminology, but he has done so. It is on not have an ounce of backbone to stand up record. and seek what the people of Queensland want, which is the opportunity at any time Once again the pattern is set. The Liberals to change the Government. It win aHow the are busy racing to ingrati,ate themselves with situation to prevail. It has been said in this the Premier to make sure that they are the House-and I support the principle-that, next nomination by the National Party for when the people of Queensland are ready, the Liberal vacancy in the Cabinet. They are they will change the Government, no matter pleading reconciliation. It is enough, as the how or where Government members draw the honoumble member for Townsville said in a lines. different context, "to make you puke". He even came straight out and said that it is The Minister for Local Government and dangerous-these are his words and they can Main Roads makes no bones about it. He be checked in "Hansard"-to denigrate the comes straight out and says, "If you want Premier. Paradoxically, the Premier did not the boundaries rigged, give me a pencil and hesitate to call him and his mates some very I will rig them and we will never lose office." unkind names. He does not talk about technicalities in the Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill 2541

k:::islaticn. But even he makes a mistake. seats. The whole system is being turned I ;ee the Premier and the Minister for Police round, and is the rock on which the Gov­ smiling at my remarks. They think we ernment will founder. The threat is not are being humorous. The humour is there to the National Party, the Liberal Party or all right.~ the Labor Party; it is to the Westminster system and democratic government. The Mr. Newbery: What you are saying is fundamental positions of the respective poli­ stupid and laughable. tical parties do not mean much at all.

Mr. JONES: The people of Queensland If the Bill is to clear the deck for dic­ will make the decision-and Government tation by party officials and to determine members will not think that is laughable. how boundaries will be drawn, and if Par­ liament is to have no right of scrutiny \Ve have only 11 members at present, but and the public no right of appeal, it will after the next redistribution we will be bring almost the death in this State of stronger than the Government imagines. The the Westminster system. If supremacy at swings in British Commonwealth countries all costs is the cry and the National Party have been ve.ry strong and when the swing is in full flight, I wonder what is its des­ comes here, nothing will defeat democracy. tination and its estimated time of arrival. There will be a swing, irrespective of what What should be sought, but what the National Government members do. Party is not looking for, is electoral justice. They can amend the Act as much as If electoral justice is to be sacrificed for they like; they can partially redistribute expediency and if the aim of the National any or all of the zones; they can retain the Party is to govern in its own right and zones that they have tidied up in the belief humble its coalition partner, then so let it that they can win without any trouble; they be. But I do not believe that holding office can draw the lines as they wish-but when is more important than maintaining the prin­ the people go to the ballot-boxes the vote ciple of the Westminster system and pre­ will be against the Government and we will serving democracy. come in on the tide and become the Is the National Party trying to destroy Government. a minority voice? The Premier likes to be Government members can go through the known as the Lone Ranger and he has motions if they wish. They can say. "We quite ruthlessly stilled the minority voice will have a redistribution. We look like of the Liberals in Cabinet, as he silenced remaining as the Government. We of the any opposition in his own party room. Now National Party will make the decisions." he has achieved a similar coup in the House That is the terminology used during the by destroying the principle of the parlia­ mentary system and putting power back in past few weeks. They might fool some of the hands of the Executive. The Deputy the people some of the time, and that adage Premier has prostrated himself before the is as true today as it was in Lincoln's day. altar of expediency to retain his office. He They can claim that the Act was not designed has subjugated himself and obeyed the Pre­ to prevent a redistribution; they can talk about mier without question. The ruthlessness of discovering an anomaly or a technical·ity; the National Party has been supreme and they can believe that we are naive or that the subservience of Liberal Party members the voting public are naive; they can create is quite obvious. all the rumpus in the world; they can laugh as much as they like about the people You are going to submit now, and with­ deciding-but in the end the people will out a fight. We have given you the opport­ decide, the National Party will be annihilated unity this afternoon to declare yourselves and the Labor Party w[!J be back in power politically and to come out on the side of both because of what members of the National democracy. But you won't accept the chal­ and Liberal Parties have done and in spite lenge. I believe that this afternoon you of what they have done. As Yvonne have committed political suicide for the bene­ McComb said, the voice of the people will fit of some persons in office in your party. be heard. You will never be able to question again; you will never be able to disagree. You After all, what are the Government parties will submit and surrender and become a trying to do? Do they want the whole prisoner of the present situation. As the shebang? Are they trying to draw the honourable member for Mackay said, the lines so that they will have it all? What Bill will not come before the House again, is their goal? What are they after-majority and if you think that you will win in rule? Or do they want this Parliament the party room with your numbers-- to be J.ike the Malaysian Parliament, where everyone sits on one side? If they are trying Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I sug­ to do that, what a paradox? They talk gest the honourable gentleman address his about the Communist Party, in which there comments through the Chair. is no minority voice. Yet the forces on the Right are doing exactly the same thing. Mr. JONES: Certainly, Mr. Acting Speaker. The redistribution is going to be carried I believe there is small comfort for the out in such a way as to try to ensure that Liberal Party in the predicament in which the Government obtains the majority of it finds itself today. Its members will be 2542 Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill

subservient and their party one of second­ Mr. MOORE (Windsor) (4.18 p.m.): The hand glory forever more. They are prisoners honourable member for Cairns waffled on in the Bastille of expediency and will remain for so long that I lost concentration. I do only as second dick. That is all they are not know whether I can make a speech for and that is all they will ever be. They one minute or 10. I do nort have a prepared have been defeated. The Deputy Premier brief presented to me by my party, and now is merely a cardboard caballero, like one I have been kicked out of the union I cannot of the figures at the rear of a Warana pro­ even go to the Trades Hall for one. So I cession. That is how he will always be find myself in a cleft stick, or in Queer regarded. In a rain storm he would col­ Street or in that sort of state. lapse in a soggy mess. He has no back­ bone. Yet Government members have all When one looks art the background of this supported him. They have not even queried amendment and at the 11 miserable Oppo­ his actions; they have 1et him have full rein. sition members who support it, one wonders what they would attempt to do with it if Mr. Moore interjected. they took control of Parliament and passed •the legislation. Heaven only knows. It is Mr. JONES: The honourable member for a weak-kneed piece of pretence that pales Windsor is one of the greatest protagonists into insignificance when one looks at the motive behind it. All they are doing is in the Liberal Party, yet he w<~~tched his leader lapse into brandishing a papier-mache sparring for time. The last thing they want, of course, is a redistribution because with sword and fall rto •the floor in a pile of soggy any redistribution they would pass into cardboard, a pile of nothing. There is no oblivion. They have been throwing out backbone in him. challenges for an election. I remind them 'Jlhe Liberal Party has no future in him, that before the last election they challenged us •to hold an early election. If we took in the honourable member for Windsor or up the most recent challenge I just wonder in anybody else in the parliamentary wing of how many of them would return. So I the Liberal Party today. Of course, while suggest that Opposition members be careful the Deputy Premier is brandishing his sword about challenging us and giving us an excuse against his Canberra cohoDts he is falling in to go to the people, because we might just a heap so far as his responsibilities to take it. Queensland are concerned. The first sign We have heard a lot of talk from the of a political storm, and whart 'happens? He Opposition about a so-called division in our collapses in a political heap. The worst ranks. Today's debate is a classic example feature of it is that Liberal members have of 1the so-called division! Which members swallowed it lock, stock and barrel. I on ,this side showed the slightest sign of would not have believed it could happen. any division. There were none. Trne, there were a few things said by members opposite, I have no confidence in the Electoral but it was all about our organisation-an Districts Act or the amending Bill before ~he organisation which, in our case, has power House; nor have I confidence in .the pur­ to suggest things to us but cannot direct veyors of this rort-and a rort it is. us. Not only can't we be directed; we will not be directed. We in our wisdom, with Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: What about calling thoughts of Queensland at heart, and the it a day? part Queensland plays in Australia, will make the decisions for the benefit of Mr. JONES: The sooner the Premier calls Queensland-no splits, no stupidity such as the election day, the sooner we will see him happened in the A.L.P. on this side of the Chamber. The National Party, through the Premier, exudes con­ I saw the A.L.P. blowing itself to pieces when that party split. When Gair was Prem­ fidence. Its members really believe they ier, I was working in the railways. Virtually have the Liberal Party in the palm of their all the people in the railways were members hand and can thus dictate to ~he people of of the A.L.P. I said to them at the time, "If Queensland. They believe they can draw you split, you will be in Opposition for 25 a line around little areas of voting strength years." They said, "No. We might lose the and that this will enable •them to achieve the election, but we will win in three years' time." majority they seek; that it will not only give I said, "Don't be stupid. You will never be them assurance of office but will protect rtheir back, or at least you won't be back for a rotten borough electorates and will ensure quarter of a century." A quarter of a century their political survival. Of course, we will see is coming up, so we must look at the the Liberal Party coming forth as apologists realities and ensure that we do not make for this policy. All •that this Bill will do is the same silly mistake. However, in all ensure rthat there will be no opposition to honesty, I cannot see intelligent people such the National Party in the coalition and •that as we have on this side of the House ever for past and future favours the Liberal Party doing such a stupid thing. will remain a lapdog of .the National Party. As I said, like its leader the Liberal Party The amendment speaks about the Bill being will fall into a soggy mess art the hands of redrafted and providing for a fair and impar­ the National Party. tial redistribution. The A.L.P. was in office Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill 2543

in Queensland for 40 years. Looking back do the things it is now advocating, and it over 10 elections in that period, the A.L.P. will never do them if it ever gains office really won only four. It lost six but still again. For a fair redistribution it will be retained the reins of office by gerrymander. necessary to have weighted electorates. There is an old saying, "What is just is equal, but Mr. K . .J. Hooper interjected. what is equal is not necessarily just." I say in these circumstances that what is just is equal. There has to be justice in a State the size of Mr. MOORE: What is the honourable Queensland where we have electorates cover­ member saying? He weakens as soon as I ing 200,000 square miles. Imagine the diffi­ accept his interjection. culties of a member representing an area of that size. How can he meet his constituents, Mr. K . .J. Hooper: Under the A.L.P., elect­ considering the distance between the small orates were democratically adjusted, and you country towns and the properties in between know it. them? He cannot fly to every country town. How can he know what is going on in an Mr. MOORE: The electorates were dem­ electorate of 200,000 square miles by flying ocratically adjusted so that the A.L.P. could over it in an aircraft? That is not the way win with 43 per cent of the vote. We know members of Parliament want to operate when that by "democracy" honourable members they have problems in their electorate. In opposite mean to win at any price and never this modern age they need to travel in a Jose the reins of office once you have them. four-wheeled vehicle. The honourable member for Archerfield is An electorate of 200,000 square miles takes showing us that. I hope that Government one hell of a lot of covering. The electorate members learn that lesson. Whatever we do, of Cook covers almost that area. It includes we will act responsibly. areas of water and islands, few of which have an airstrip. So it is necessary for the member Mr. Jones: You have even got your own to plug along in a boat at about eight knots members laughing at that. to visit electors. How could it be said that there should be no weightage in such an Mr. MOORE: That is all right. We do not electorate? Of course there has to be weight­ even know that there will be a redistribution age in such an electorate. If the people are now, and I personally believe that there will to have fair representation, country electorates not be. Because all honourable members here must have some weightage. We have no at present will be returned on the present argument with our National Party colleagues boundaries, I hope there will not be one. about that. There has been talk of putting a Supreme There is a little bit of heat at the moment Court judge on the commission. What part in the speculation about a redistribution before could he play? He would be completely out the next election. We don't want to see one. of his field. What would he know about this We are concerned about the survival of our system? Sensible people do not pluck doctors colleagues, who are excellent members. out of their profession and put them into Although people may be transferred from one engineering or make school-teachers cooks. eleotoral roll to another, votes are not That is what the Opposition is trying to do. necessarily transferred. For reasons of sur­ The members of a commission for electoral vival I say I want to see no redistribution redistribution must be people who know before the next election, but rather one something about the subject-about weighing quickly after it so that all our members who and a fair redistribution taking all matters are returned can look after the new territory into account. With the best will in the world, with a view to keeping Labor out for ever. a Supreme Court judge would not know that. That is my idea. If there is an enemy in He is involved in criminal trials and in giving this House it is made up of the 11 members judgment upon various Acts, and so forth. opposite. Personally I like them, and if they It is not his field and he would be like a go into the bar later I will buy them a beer, fish out of water. Not only that, Mr. Acting but on election day they are the enemy. Speaker, but we would be inflicting some­ thing upon him that he would not want. I A redistribution concerns only parties and do not know one Supreme Court judge who politics. We are in office to legislate for would volunteer for the job, and I doubt the benefit of people and to provide progress whether we could recruit one. and jobs. Anyone who has been out of Queensland for some years is amazed on his Mr. Lamont: It is a "motherhood" word. return at the development that ha~ taken place. When I went to Adelaide in July, Mr. MOORE: As the honourable member not having been there since World War It for South Brisbane says, it is a "motherhood" I found that nothing had changed. There word-a very nice word. When anyone hears was hardly a new building evident. South it, he thinks, "We have to be kind; we have Australia is virtually the way Tom Playford to support it because it is such a kindly left it. He developed it to a certain stage, thing." That is what motherhood connotes. but the A.L.P.'s dead hand has done nothing to improve it. Honourable members opposite The A.L.P. is changing its attitude, of would know that what I am saying is right. course, now that it has only 11 members in They have only to go there to see for the House. While it was in office it did not themselves. 2544 Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill

Mr. Houston: When did Playford go out statements by members of the Opposition. of office? The last redistribution took place in 1971, and after the 1972 election the A.L.P. Mr. MOORE: A fair while ago. Nothing came to this House with 34 seats. In has improved since then. 1974-although there had been no further Mr. Houston: You said that you had not redistribution-the A.L.P. came into this been there since the war. House with only 11 seats. Surely that is food for thought. If I were a member of Mr. MOORE: That's right. the Opposition and found that my party had Mr. Houston: Playford was there for years lost so many seats without a redistribution, after the war. I would start to analyse my party's policies. I am sure that the A.L.P. has been affected Mr. MOORE: Of course. in some way by the calibre of its candidates. Mr. Houston: What did he do? I make specific reference to the honourable member for Archerfield, who saw fit last Mr. MOORE: The Playford Govern­ week to say that the Fassifern boundaries ment-- were, "a colossal gerrymander." I think Mr. ACTL"JG SPEAKER: Ordei! Even those were his exact words. in a very wide-ranging debate I think the virtues of the Playford Government are just lHr. K. J. Hooper: That is true. a little bit removed from the Bill. Mr. MULLER: The honourable member Mr. MOORE: I suppose so, but we are agrees. talking about a redistribution Bill, and one In 1971, when the boundarues were can take into account what happened in realigned there were 12,000 electors in Fassi­ South Australia with its redistribution Bill. fern. We now have 18,700 and the number If 41 votes had gone the other way, the is increasing by about 1,800 a year. 1 present South Australian Government would suggest that the increase has been caused not be in office. It's a dead old show. by the progressive policies followed by the Our main interest is looking after people. Government. The Premier is interested in freedoms and During the last election campaign some in Queensland and its development. I members of the Government were assisted commend him and emphasise that there is considerably by members of the Labor Party. no division in our show. The honourable member for Archerfield came The honourabie member for Ylackay to Boonah, the heart of my electorate, to expounded on the virtues of the A.L.P. campaign. I knew immediately that my He got the axe from the A.L.P. some time majority would be increased, but I did not ago, but he put himself up for sa~e and think it would be increased as much as it was taken back into the A.L.P. He 1s now was. To emphasise my point I say that, trying to lick the boots of the A.LP. hierarchy as a direct result of his participation .in the in the hope of getting a Cabinet post, campaign, my majority increased to 8,500. should Labor ever attain office. The A.L.P. I extend a very hearty and cordial invitation members have said that we should be fair to him to come back to Boonah and to visit and do this and that about the redistribution. all parts of my electorate during the forth­ Do they mean that, to be fair, they should coming campaign. He will be extremely allow the Communists in? The day that welcome. they allow the Communists in will be The remarkable growth that has taken their last chance. There would be rto democ­ place can be attributed to the Government's racy after they got in or after the A.L.P. got policy of establishing a considerable number in. of industrial estates in the fringes of the I commend the Premier on all the good city of Brisbane. The result can be seen in jobs he has done for Queensland and on the school enrolments. Two-and-a-half years sensible and sane attitude he has adopted. ago there were 400 students at the Kingston school. Now there are 1,200. Waterford Mr. MULLER (Fassifern) (4.31 p.m.): I West State School was opened by the Minister do not intend to delay proceedings but I for Works and Housing as recently as last have some comments to make in this debate. November with 281 students. A letter on After listening to members of the Opposit~on my desk informs me that the number i5 I believe that we would do well to remind now 431 and that by the end of the year, ourselves of the business before us. At as the enrolment is increasing at the rate times it has been very difficult to relate of five children per week, a school attendance comments to the Bill. In saying that, I of 600 is expected. Where there are children, point out that I do not cast aspersions on naturally enough there are parents. Con­ your rulings, Mr. Acting Speaker. However, sequently, we feel that we are obliged to on this occasion you have allowed a very have a redistribution on the basis of increased wide debate. population. Whenever redistributions have been dis­ A lot of nonsense has been spoken in cussed while I have been in this House, con­ this House about gerrymanders. It has been siderable reference has been made to gerry­ complete and utter drivel. That argument manders. I have come to expect such does not hold any water at all. Members Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill 2545 of the Labor Party have always promoted this State. As well as supporting the amend­ the idea of one vote, one value. That ment moved by my leader, I support the has been their policy. I have never sub­ principle expressed in the motion that the scribed to that philosophy. The fact of the electoral commission appointed should be matter is that they have continued to com­ headed by a Supreme Court judge. plain that members of the National Party have represented trees and broad acres rather Mr. Frawley: Lionel Murphy. than people. I want them to know that Mr. K. J. HOOPER: Lionel Murphy would on the south-eastern sector of Brisbane. certainly have a big advantage over Mr. between here and the Gold Coast 175,000 Archer. electors are contained within eight elector­ ates, six of which are held by the National Mr. Frawley: Murphy would be one of Party. Consequently, we as members of the biggest crooks out. the National Party are not ashamed that we have initiated this plan for a redistri­ Mr. K. J. HOOPER: I am looking at one bution. of the biggest crooks in the House. If the honourable member nods, I will point. I think it would be fair to say that there could be a measure of disagreement about The appointment of a judge to head the the timing of the redistribution. Admittedly, commission would provide a lot of judicial questions have been raised about that. It and political balance. Usually lhe Premier is not a matter of whether a redistribution appoints one of his very good friends to is necessary, but rather when it should be. chair the commission. Mr. Archer, the I do not think it matters very much when last chairman of the electoral commission, it is held. The fact of the matter is that, was a personal friend of the Premier's. It as a result of representation by members is also quite obvious that he repaid the of the National and Liberal Parties, with­ Premier's friendship by gerrymandering the out a doubt we will be returned to the boundaries in Queensland to suit the Premier's Parliament and will retain the reins of party. Government. Mr. Frawley: Do you know what a gerry- A number of anomalies exist in other mander really is? regions, but l feel that I can be most con­ structive in my remarks if I refer to those Mr. Casey: Yes-the National Party. areas which vitally concern me. Electorates north of the city of Brisbane are similarly Mr. K. J. HOOPER: Yes, that is true. affected. I believe that it is necessary and The commission, with a judge as the chair- desirable that a complete overhaul should man, would provide for the excellent demo· be made of electoral boundaries. cratic adjustment of electoral boundaries in this State, v·hich is long overdue. It is There has been talk of gerrymandering. quite obvious that a judge of the Supreme I have had a look at the possibilities, and Court certainly would not prostitute his I will be quite frank and open when I integrity by perpetuating the rotten boroughs make my statements. It is not a simple matter to ,look at a map and decide where that exist in this State and, without the cynical lines should be put on a map to surround rigging of the electoral system, the National a group of people who it is believed have Party would not be the senior member of a favourable political persuasion. Mem­ this sleazy coalition Government. bers of the Opposition would readily agree No other person and identity than Sir that prior to the election of 1957, when Gm·don Chalk was reported in "The National the Labor Government lost office, they had Times" as saying that while he won the a redistribution. They lost after a redis­ race, he did not get the prize. He was tribution of their own; so that surely indi­ alluding to the fact that during the 1974 cates how difficult it is to "gerrymander". elections the Liberals received a far greater It has been said on many occasions that number of votes than the National Party if there are experts in the fields of skul­ received but won the fewest seats. Members duggery and gerrymandering, the members of the National Party and some members of the A.L.P. would be the most highly of the Liberal Party who are on the extreme qualified. right, and whom I describe as being on I indicated earlier that it was not my inten­ !he lunatic right-- tion to delay the business of the House. I Mr. Prest: The Premier called them scabs. support the legislation and I entirely oppose the amendment, which is completely puerile Mr. K. J. HOOPER: That is right. From and unnecessary. my vast experience in the industrial field I know that when a person calls another Mr. K. J. HOOPER (Archerfield) (4.39 person a scab he does not work or operate p.m.): I enter this debate briefly this after­ with him. The Premier called the members noon to speak on the proposed Bill and of the Liberal Party scabs, yet he is prepared the amendment moved by my leader. It is to sit with them in the coalition Govern­ quite obvious-and it is also a political ment. He compounds the felony by being truism-that the overwhelming majority of prepared to accept it. electors in Queensland are seeking a fair and equitable distribution of boundaries in Dr. Lockwood interjected. 2546 Electoral Districts Act (22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill

Vk. h. J. HOOPER: I could not pick would be prepared to wager a large sum of up the interjection from the honourable money that he will come down on the side member for Toowoomba North. He has a of the National Party. very light voice. On another occasion I said that he is a rectum speaker, that he speaks The honourable member for South Bris­ through his seat. It is obvious that following bane, who is in danger of being gerry­ the next State election he will have to return mandered out, gave a sickening example of to his medical practice full time. political toadying and crawling to the Premier in an endeavour to protect his worthless The Liberal Party members are so gutless political hide. I am told on good authority that they are prepared to allow the National that when the honourable member was a Party to remain top dog in the coalition member of the Police Force in Hong Kong Government and they are prepared to con­ he arrested a poor old decrepit Chinese tinue to toady to it for a number of years. gentleman for using abusive language and when he got him down to the police station The system is weighted against the Labor to book him he found that the poor old Party and it is rather amusing that it is fellow was deaf and dumb. also weighted against the Liberal Party. The Liberals are prepared to accept that and Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I ask the they will certainly be the junior member honourable member to return to the matter of the coalition Opposition for years follow­ under discussion. ing the next election. Mr. K. J. HOOPER: Yes, Mr. Acting I have heard speakers today, including Speaker. the honourable member for Windsor, say with tongue in cheek that there is no rift Mr. Alison: That's terrible. in the ranks of the coalition. They should tell that to the electors, who would laugh at Mr. K. J. HOOPER: Of course it's terrible. them. An Honourable Member: It could have As the Leader of the Opposition said this been a Thursday Island policeman. morning, "The Courier-Mail" and the "Tele­ graph" have always supported the Tory Mr. K. J. HOOPER: It could have been a parties in this State. Yet even they have Thursday Island policeman but in this case too much to swallow at the moment. To the honourable member for South Brisbane put it colloquially, they cannot cop it and was a Hong Kong policeman. they are criticising the squabbling coalition Government and showing up its weaknesses. Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! I have asked the honourable member to return to It is a cold, hard fact of life that the the Bill. Liberal Party is on the decline in Queens­ land. This has been brought about by its Mr. K. J. HOOP ER: Yes, Mr. Acting decadence and its subservience to the neo­ Speake-r. Fascist National Party. I should now like to touch bl'iefly on the Mr. Lamont: Tell us about the split m remarks of the honourable member for the A.L.P. Fassifern. He stood up in the House a few moments ago and told us that the electorate Mr. K. J. HOOPER: There is certainly of Fassifern was not gerrymandered. I think you will recall, Mr. Acting Speaker, that I no split in the A.L.P. I am coming to related quite eloquently last Thursday how the honourable member for South Brisbane. the electorate of Fassifern was the most It is sickening to see and hear members gerrymandered electorate in the State. I will of the Liberal Party rise, one after the say of the honourable member for Fassifern other, and mouth pious platitudes in support that, although he is very Right Wing, he is of the National Party leader. usually very gentlemanly when he speaks. He is not known as a bucket tipper. Nevertheless, The honourable member for Toowong is he is extremely reactionary. He said that ~he on the extreme Right in this State. As a electorate has increased from 12,000 electors matter of fact, he made speech No. 23 from to 18,000. What he omitted to tell the House his rather limited repertoire. One could was what a rotten borough Fassifern is. I ~lmc:st make his speeches for him. He spoke told honourable members last week that it m h1s cold, measured way, with his tongue commences on the fringe-- in his. :cheek and, in his best overbearing, superc1hous manner he made his usual Mr. Jones: He said there are too many vitriolic attack on the A.LP. He did this to people in his electorate. support the p,remier in ,an attempt to perpe­ tuate the ger,rymander in Queensland. It will Mr. K. J. HOOPER: That is true; he wants be interesting-this is orrly speculation, Mr. more trees and cows. He does not want Acting Spea.lcer-to see, when the split even­ goats, because there are enough of them in tuates and the chips are down, just where the National Party. Fassifern is the most the honourable member for Toowong goes. I gerrymandered electorate in Queensland. Electoral Districts Act [22 MARCH 1977] and Another Act, &c., Bill 2547

Whilst I am on my feet I might say that Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: That is what I it is a fallacy that the National Party gerry­ would like to talk about. The honourable mander is perpetuated in the Far West. That member deserted and went over to the is not so. It is perpetuated within a radius of socialists. That is what I would call his 150 miles of Brisbane in, for eJCample, the action. wtten-borough electorates of Baramba:h a:nd Today there has been a tremendous amount Cunningham. I cannot see the honourable of talk about redistributions and gerrymand­ member for Cunningha:m in the House; he ers. I have been a member of this Assembly made a:n interjection earlier. It is quite weH for 30 years a:nd I have seen a number of known that he has never done a:n honest redistributions. I recall the days when I sat day's work in his life. He was born with a opposite and experienced what members silver plough in his mouth. opposite now speak about so knowledgeably. Mr. Frawley: Tell us about Murrumba. They have had so much experience that they are the real experts. If I could show hon­ ourable members the electoral maps drawn Mr. K. J. HOOPER: There is no need for us to go to Murrumba; the electors will deal in the days when their party was in Govern­ with the honourable member at the next ment, they would see they were a real jig­ election. saw puzzle. The Premier in those days was Mr. Hanlon, of whom honourable members As I have already said, the gerrymander is opposite speak very highly. He was the perpetuated in the rotten boroughs within a man who introduced the zonal system which radius of 150 miles of Brisbane. It is not we follow today. He must have been a so bad out in the bush although the seat of terrible rascal from the way members oppo­ Gregory is a lulu. It stretches from Aramac si1e today spoke about the zonal system. He in the north down to Hungerford on the must have done some outrageous things in South Australian border, encompassing all his day because we have just followed the the towns between. pattern he set. I do not know whether members opposite meant to condemn him, Mr. Glasson: You'd get lost in it. because they do not usually speak other than good of the dead. Mr. K. J. HOOPER: As a matter of fact, I did get lost in it. The honourable member I think Mr. Hanlon was a very able got lost in Quilpie at one time when his Premier. Of course, honourable members plane broke down. opposite seem to completely forget that the present system stems from the time of the National and Liberal Party members g~t last Labor administmtion. I have h'l my up here and mouth pious platitudes m room all that was said on the subject by support of the Premier. But one has only to Mr. Hanlon and I would have loved to go into the house of the devil-the bar-to repeat j,t all to honourable members opposite hear some members of the Liberal Party if I had had the time. It would have been attack the Premier. That is where one hears edifying for them. They would find that the truth. I have heard some very interesting what he said is completely contrary to what things when I have been there drinking my they are saying now. I think we have to usual glass of milk. I have heard various be mindful of the people in the remote parts members make bitter, vitriolic attacks on the of the State who produce the great wealth of Premier. They say that he is a dictator. They this nation. Today we are not really talking say, "We can't do anything because if it about a redistribution. Many Opposition comes to a vote, four or five of our Liberal members have spoken about a redistribution, members will cross the floor a:nd vote with but as has been pointed out by my col­ the National Party." leagues, particularly the honourable mem­ ber for South Brisbane, this Bill has nothing I do not want to delay the House any to do with a redistribution. Honourable longer. I say in conclusion that I whole­ heartedly support the amendment moved by members opposite sought to suggest that a the Leader of the Opposition and, if it is redi~tribution could not be held unless this caHied, it will certainly result in justice and Bill was passed, but that is quite wrong. We democracy for the people. did not need to introduce this Bill to effect a redistribution, as honourable members op­ posite know, or should know. Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah -Premier) (4.50 p.m.): I would like to thank Mr. Casey: Are you bringing this in so honourable members, particularly my col­ you can have a redistribution? leagues, for their very worthwhile contri­ butions. I also appreciate the very kind Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: There is no references ·they made to me from time to need. time. I want to assure honourable members Mr. Casey: Why are you bringing it in, opposite that we on the Government side then? are a very strong and close-knit group of people. When the crunch comes, honour­ Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: It has to be able members opposite will feel the effects of introduced sooner or later to bring the legis­ it. lation up to date, as the honourable member knows. What is wrong with that? Hon­ Mr. Casey: Why did you call them scabs? ourable members opposite talk about a fair 2548 Electoral Districts Act, &c., Bill [22 MARCH 1977) Coal and Oil Shale, &c., Bill and impartial redistribution, but when I cast Question-That the Bill be now read a my memory back to the days when they were second time (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen's motion) in power it all sounds so hypocritical and -put; and the House divided- airy-fairy. We all know that a judge could AYES, 58 be appointed to head .the commission, but Akers Kyburz the A.L.P. never tells the people what sort Alison Lamont Armstrong Lane of guide-lines would be laid down for him. Bertoni - Lee The A.L.P. would have them in a race like Bird Lester cattle going up into a slaughterhouse. Bjelke-Petersen Lickiss Bourke Lindsay Byrne Lockwood Mr. Burns: They are in there now. Camm Lowes Campbell McKechnie Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: That is where Cory Miller the honourable member is when he talks Deeral Muller Do urn any Ne a! about a fair and impartial rediMribution Edwards Newbery under a judge. Elliott Porter Fraw!ey Powell Mr. Bums interjected. Gibbs Row Glasson Scott-Young Gale by Simpson Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: The honour­ Greenwood Small able member can pick anybody he likes, Gunn Sullivan but the whole thing is the ground rules that Gygar Tenni Bales Turner are laid down, and he would make his own Hartwig Warner ground rules. Herbert Wharton Badges I just want to reply to the comments of Hooper, K. W. the honourable member for Archerfield Hooper, M. D. Kaus Tellers: about Mr. Archie Archer, who I think is a Kippin Ahern very good friend of all of us in this Cham­ Knox Moo re ber. I could not accept that he would do NoEs, 11 anything to help the National Party because Burns Wright Casey Yewdale he is a friend of mine. I do not think that Dean is fair to Mr. Archer. He is a man above Houston Tellers: that, and is held in very high regard in the Jones Melloy Hooper, K. J. communi-ty. I have no further comment Prest Margins on other than to say that naturally we do not Resolved in the affirmative. accept the amendment.

Question-That the words proposed to be CoMMITTEE omitted (Mr. Burns's amendment) stand part (Mr. Row, Hinchinbrook, in the chair) of the question-put; and the House divided- Clauses 1 to 10, both inclusive, as read, AYES, 58 agreed to. Akers Kyburz Alison Lamont Bill reported, without amendment. Armstrong Lane Bertoni Lee MINISTERIAL STATEMENT Bird Lester Bjelke-Petersen Lickiss ANSWER TO QUESTION WITHOUT NOTICE Bourke Lindsay Byrne Lockwood Hon. T. G. NEWBERY (Mirani-Minister Camm Lowes p.m.): Camp bell McKechnie for Police) (5.12 I would like to Cory Miller clarify a portion of an answer I gave in Deeral Muller this House this morning in response to a Doumany Neal question without notice from the honourable Edwards Newbery Elliott Porter member for Barron River regarding the Frawley Powell future of two police officers convicted of Gibbs Row Glasson Scott-Young offences in the Cairns Magistrates Court. Galeby Simpson In the final portion of my answer I indicated Greenwood Small that the time allowed for the two officers Gunn Sullivan Gygar Tenni to lodge appeals against their convictions had Bales Turner not elapsed. I am now advised that that Hartwig Warner period has expired but that such period may Herbert \'Vharton Badges be extended at any time by the court. Hooper, K. W. Hooper, M. D. COAL AND OIL SHALE MINE WORKERS Kaus Tellers: Kippin Ahern (PENSIONS) ACT AMENDMENT BILL 'Knox Moo re SECOND READING NOES, 11 Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister Burns Wright for Mines and Energy) (5.13 p.rn.): I Casey Yewdale Dean move- Houston "That the Bill be now read a second Jones Tellers: Melloy Hooper, K. J. time." Prest Margins on I thank honourable members for their initial Resolved in the affirmative. approval of the contents of the Bill as Coal and Oil Shale, &c., Bill [22 MARCH 1977] Anglican Church, &c., Bill 2549

explained at the introductory stage. Now he accepted a iump-sum or a weekly pension that honourable members have had the payment. As the }Jinister said, I believe opportunity to examine the Bill in detail, that the majority of retired mine workers J feel that there will be a general acceptance and mine workers presently in the industry of the merit of the amendments proposed. would prefer the lump-sum payment. I feel that at the introductory stage I We support the Bill. gave a sufficient explanation of each individual provision contained in the Bill, and con­ Hon. R. E. CAMM (Whitsunday-Minister sequently I do not propose to use up the for Mines and Energy) (5.17 p.m.), in reply: limited time of the House on any further I thank the honourable member for Wolston detailed explanation of the provisions at this for his support of the Bill. I am sure that time. the coal miners in his area and particularly those working in the West Moreton field However. I have studied the suggestion will be appreciative of what we are doing made during the introductory stage of the in respect of the pension payments. Bill that consideration should be given to a reversion to the principle of paying retire­ Motion (Mr. Camm) agreed to. ment benefits in the form of pension payments rather than the present form of lump-sum payments, and I would like to explain to CoMMITTEE the House the background to the adoption (Mr. Row, Hinchinbrook, in the chair) of the principle of paying lump-sum retire­ ment benefits. Clauses 1 to 5, both inclusive, as read, agreed to. I feel that all honourable members will appreciate that no pension or superannuation Bill reported, without amendment. scheme can provide the variety of types of benefit desired by individual contributors. Over the years the Government has endeav­ ANGLICAN CHURCH OF AUSTRALIA oured to provide the type of benefit thought BILL to be the most commonly preferred by the SECOND READING majority of contributors. When the lump­ sum-benefit principle was adopted in 1970, Hon. W. D. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha­ it was on the joint recommendation of the Minister for Justice and Attorney-General) mining unions and the Coal Owners Associa­ (5.19 p.m.): I move- tion. "That the Bill be now read a second While the weekly pension principle is time." still in operation in New South Wales, I This Bill is a short and simple measure understand the scheme is currently under­ which has as its sole objective the change going a complete revision and that serious of name of the Church of England in consideration is being given to a conversion Australia to the Anglican Church of to the lump-sum principle in that State. How­ Australia. ever, the final outcome of that review may not be known for some time. From a perusal of the Bill it will be seen Personallv I would feel some reluctance that the change of name necessitates some towards a -reversion to a weekly pension consequential changes where the name of ~cheme in this State because in many ways the church is referred to in other Acts or the lump-sum-benefit principle seems to have instruments or in church canons, ordinances advantages over the weekly pension principle. or the like. Where the name of the church For one thing the mine worker's retirement appears as a title to an Act, then an amend­ benefit is proportionate to the service he ment is made in the Bill to that title so has rendered to the coal-mining industry, that the new name can be accurately cited and I feel that the long-term or career mine when making a reference to that Act in the worker has this moral entitlement. future. I feei that I have covered the major points A savings provision has been included in of the proposed amendments and I commend the Bill out of an abundance of caution the Bill to the House. so that the change of name will not pre­ judice or affect the continuity of any church Mr. MARGINSON (Wolston) (5.16 p.m.): corporation or of any legal proceeding by As I said at the introductory stage, the or against any such corporation. Bill appears to be a very good one and A~ I have already indicated, this Bill was we on this side of the House support it. presented to the House at the request of the Since its introduction I have had discus­ authorities of the Church of England in sions with the officials of the Queensland Queensland. It is a worthwhile measure Colliery Employees' Union and the secretary which will assist the church. of the retired mine workers' fund. They Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (5.20 p.m.): support me in my remarks. They feel that At the introductory stage I gave some details the Bill is quite a good one. of the activities that have been carried on I would support the proposal to have by the church for some length of time. weekly pensions only if it was at the dis­ I do not intend to repeat them; I believe cretion of a retired mine worker whether that all members would agree that the church 2550 Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill

has played a major role in not only the spirit­ legislative provision for similar bodies. In ual area but in fields such as social welfare, its Parts the Bill provides for the constitution health and education. In fact, it has played and membership of the trust; the objects and a pioneering role in opening up our State. powers of the trust; and the meetings, pro­ The Minister said that the Bill is a technical ceedings and business of the trust. The measure. It does not require a great deal financial provisions cover funds, accounts and of debate and the Opposition supports it. budget, and borrowing powers as they appertain to the trust. Motion (Mr. Lickiss) agreed to. The Bill has been perused by the Treasury COMMITTEE and the Auditor-General's Department, who are in agreement with the proposals. I com­ (Mr. Row, Hinchinbrook, in the ohair) mend the Bill to the House. Clauses 1 to 6, both inclusive, schedules and 2, and preamble, as read, agreed to. Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (5.25 p.m.): Bill reported, without amendment. During the introductory debate I pointed out on behalf of the Opposition that we were supporting the legislation but that we also QUEENSLAND PERFORMING ARTS wanted to have a very careful look at it, TRUST BILL and over the week-end Opposition members SECOND READING did this, myself especially. We still support the proposal before the Assembly but there Hon. V. J. BIRD (Burdekin-Minister for are some questions that need to be asked, and Education and Cultural Activities) (5.23 p.m.): rather than take them clause by clause and I move- spend a lot of the Assembly's time, I would "That the Bill be now read a second like to raise these generally. If the Minister time." cannot answer the queries himself, he might be able to get some information so that the Having entered into some detail when the whole issue can be clarified. Bill was introduced, it is necessary now only to recap on the general provisions of the The Minister made mention of the mem­ Act by stating that the proposed cultural bership of the trust and he talked about centre at South Brisbane will include a centre nine persons, one of whom is going to be for the performing arts and it is therefore appointed. This person would probably be necessary to establish a body to operate the the Director-General of Education or his centre. nominee. He went on to say that there will be others, four of whom must themselves The Bill sets up and incorporates a Queens­ be involved in performing arts. I am always land Performing Arts Trust of nine members, sceptical about simply having Government of whom not fewer than four shall be persons appointees on these various groups. I think who are knowledgeable and experienced in that with hospital boards we would some­ the performing arts. Members will be times be far better off having people from appointed for four years but there will be the community elected by the community, reappointment of half the trust every two as we do with, say, ambulance boards and years to provide a consistent core of mem­ so on, rather than Government appointees. bership. The appointments will be made There is always the status symbol aspect, but after consultation with various persons and I am not always sure that we get the best per­ groups "as the Minister deems fit". sons for the jobs. I would like the Minister to The main purpose of the trust will be to give us some explanation as to who these manage the performing arts centre and to people will be, although I am not asking present performances in it. However, the him to name them. Are we looking to see trust's objects do permit it to undertake that they cover every aspect of the perform­ wider educational and promotional roles. The ing arts? Are we looking at community trust will be a body corporate employing a leaders and are we going to see representa­ director and staff. As is the case with tion from the city council? the Queensland Theatre Company, they will If members read the Bill that was intro­ not be subject to the Public Service Act. duced in South Australia back in 1971, they The trust's budget will have to be approved will see that when the trust there was first by the Minister; it will have to report annually set up the local authority was given two to Parliament; its financial accounts will be representatives on it. Again, I believe there audited by the Auditor-General; and it will is some value in having local authority have the power to borrow. representatives and not just people who The trust will have the power to make themselves are involved in the arts. by-laws while the Governor in Council retains the power to make regulations. There are The Bill itself refers to people being not provisions to protect the property of the older than 70 when appointed. I should trust, with penalties for destruction of or hope that we would not have people much damage to such property. older than 70 on the trust, although regard­ less of age, many people can still make a The provisions contained in the Bill are contribution. I was in National Fitness for generally standard ones for this type of many, many years. We had people who got organisation and are largely modelled on on the State council and stayed there and Queensland Perforrning [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill 2551 stayed there year after year. At one time one final point vhat I overlooked. Perhaps the average age would have been about 63 the IvEnister could answer it. How will the or 64, but common sense finally prevailed trnst's powers involve existing organisations and people who could no longer carry out such as the Queensland Theatre Trust? We their role stepped down. Today we have a already have legislation relating specifically very energetic State council made up of all to that organisation. Will this Bill provide age groups from all walks of life. overriding power, or will organisations of that type still be independent? Other I agree with the Minister's idea on the questions might arise as we debate the terms of appointment whereby virtually measure, but on the whole we support it. every two years half the trust will come up for reappointment. We must have some con­ Mrs. KYBURZ (Salisbury) (5.31 p.m.): In tinuity to ensure that the trust management supporting the Bill, I say at the outset that will continue properly, but such a provision I am particularly pleased that this is one of allows for new blood. Possibly the most the areas in which the Government has been important part of the legislation itself relates so forward in spending money. It has not to the objects of the trust, and this point only introduced the necessary legislation but was expounded at some length by the Minis­ has also pushed within its own departments, ter in the introductory debate. He stressed particularly the Education Department, for the importance of promoting performing 'improvements. I cite as an example the arts activities throughout the State. The Queensland Cultural Diary, which contains general powers outlined in the Bill are very many articles and items of interest. If wide when it comes to employment of per­ members of the public care to go through sonnel, the hiring and purchase of various that diary, they will see, as will members of articles and the right to title to land. I Parliament, that there are very many believe all this relates very closely to the interesting things to do and see. amount of money that is going to be avail­ Referring particularly to the BiH, I point able, because, although it is great having a out that Division II-Objects and Powers of wonderful Bill and being able to say, "Yes, Trust-mentions so many desirable objects. these are going to be the functions and I have in mind particularly children and powers," if the trust does not have the physi­ young people, and paragraph (c) says that one cal capacity to carry out those functions the of the objects is to teach, train and instruct Bill is not worth the paper it is written on. persons and promote education and research in the performing arts. Possibly one of the Whilst we note on page 9 of the Bill that reasons why Australians are so traditionally moneys are to be appropriated from Con­ lacking in culture-and, of course, that is a solidated Revenue and placed in the general comparative statement relating to the fund, and also that there is to be a trust European tradition-is that we have not fund and a loan fund, we have to make sure instructed our young people to make it that finance is available, because it is the educationally fashionable, for want of a extra money that is going to benefit the better term, to be interested in cultural country and provincial city areas. The cost achievement. Re!la:tively speaking, we have of promoting these activities in some of these pushed cultural achievement into the back­ regions is very high because of accommoda­ ground in favour of other things tha:t were tion and travelling costs, so whilst the costs more necessary in early colonial days. But may not be high if it is in Brisbane, they I think that the time has now come when we are certainly going to be of some magnitude can afford to promote our writers, artists, in country areas. Whilst the trust has the ballet dancers, and potters. It should no powers, and the objects are worth while, longer be considered to be beyond the I would ask the Minister to ensure that the average person to see the ballet, and we money, too, is going to be there. should start that line of thinking among I should also like to know exactly what young people. Fortunately, we are now doing type of allowances we are talking about. that. There is no mention of how much they will Paragraph (f) says that another object is be. The Bill simply says that each member to promote and encoumge public interest and shall be paid such allowances, if any, as the participation in the perfonning arts. I am Minister from time to time determines. I particularly pleased to see that, because I accept the need for some type of incentive. think it is time that members of the pubHc In fact, a similar idea has been put forward apart from those who have already been for a new National Fitness Council structure weaned into the cultural scene should begin so that rhere would be some incentive for taking an interest in what is going on around people to play their part on the various them. Many groups are not only performing councils. However, we should not waste in this field but also encouraging public money in this way, because I think most participation. I cite small pottery groups and people would be happy to serve for nothing. craft groups of various kinds, even down to Again some explanation is needed, and I macrame work~hops, which are hav,ing a express the hope that money will not be great deal of effect on suburban life. \>.Jsted. Paragraph (g) says that it is an object of Overall the Opposition supports the the trust to promote and encourage either measure, though there are some aspects of directly or indirectly the knowledge, under­ concern when it comes to money. There is standing, appreciation and enjoyment of the 2552 Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill

performing arts. That is a wonderful principle be found for children to do after school. to be foi!owed, and I hope that the Queens­ Fo~ exa.mple, I note Project Spearhead, land Performing Arts Trust will be able to whrch crtes new theatre projects for the put it into effect. I wonder how in fact it Queensland Theatre Company. will do it. It will require a hard-sell campaign if it is to go over well with the public. Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! The hon­ ourable member is straying away from the So many people-! am referring mainly Bill. to men-consider it a waste of money to go to, for example, an orchestral concert or to Mrs. KYBURZ: I am trying to indicate the ballet. It may cost $7.50, as it will cost to the House how beneficial it has been to see the ballet that is starting soon. Yet to set up the Department of Cultural Acti­ for a night's entertainment and a widening of vities and how wonderful have been its one's cultural experience $7.50 is relatively achievements. cheap, when compared with the cost of a The proposed by-laws for the trust are dozen bottles of beer. I will not expound on quite wide. The trust is going to be given that theory. the general management and control of any property occupied by it. Does that mean, Clause 17 deals with the general powers for example, that it is going to make laws of the trust. Su bclause 2 (g) states- about the manner of dress, age and entrance "to publish works and to license their fees? If a rock concert was being held performance in any form." at any one of the theatres in Brisbane would it be able to require patrons to attend I should like to ask why the trust is going in a particular manner of dress? I am partic­ to be empowered to publish works. I pre­ ularly anxious to see theatre brought down sume that that means particular writings. to the level of the average person, what­ l realise that the question should be asked ever that may be. Going to the ballet at the Committee stage, but I wonder whether ought not necessarily entail the wearing of we are doing the right thing in encouraging a black tie and tails by a man and the our own publishing company in Queensland. wearing of a long dress and ghastly white gloves by a woman. This is just passe. People As to the performing arts in general­ should be able to wear what they like. as a representative of an outer-Brisbane If a person wants to wear jeans and a suburb, I am particularly glad to see that T-shirt when he attends the ballet, that is in so many country areas, not only the fine by me. provincial cities but also small towns like I should ,like to see cultural activities in Proserpine and Stanthorpe-I suppose the Queensland, particularly in Brisbane, become members concerned do not think of them what they are in London, where there are as small towns, but I do-many activities just so many places to go and so many are engaged in. That is really wonderful. theatres to attend, all reasonably priced, that When I read through the Queensland Cul­ the mind boggles. Take, for example, the tural Diary I was amazed at the number of ballet Coppelia. It will be played in Queens­ exhibitions and Arts Council visits that these land at the end of March by the Queensland towns are receiving. Without doubt the Ballet Company. At such a production in country towns and provincial cities deserve London the audience would be about half as much visiting culture as do the majqr male and half female, and their dress would cities. be very casual and informal. I hope 'that >the trust will be able to make Some groups are probably better received very simple by-laws. Item (e} under the in the provincial towns than in the capital. I have heard that various groups which heading "By-laws" reads- visited Brisbane were disappointed at the "the conditions upon which any per­ attendances and therefore decided not to formance or any litem or other part return to this city. Had they gone to centres of any performance may be pre­ like Rockhampton and Cairns, probably they sented;" would have had a far bigger roll-up. I presume that means the 'trust will be given the right to decide whether or no~ certain One thing that has pleased me about groups can perform. I hope it will not ma.\:e the Cultural Activities Department is that arbitrary decisions whereby a group of it is encouraging organisations to apply for Government assistance. I do not know how female African dancers, for example, could many groups have in fact applied for assist­ be forced to wear bras. I hope it will not ance, but it is a wonderful thing that after­ indulge in such trivia. But I presume that school activities are financed by the Govern­ could be entailed, as rhe powers are wide, ment and that so many fruitful things can and encompassing. Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill 2553

I congratulate the Miniflter, Mr. Creedy that something was wrong with people who and the Education Department. I suppose could not see it. Everyone knew that the that they need a pat on ilie back because emperor had no clothes on but it took a the section of the Education Department child to say it. Critics in all the areas of that assists cultural groups is not publicised art act in much the same way and try to sufficiently by members of Parliament. We persuade us rthat something is new, mag­ should go to our cultural groups and com­ nificent and superb, or of such transcendent munity organisations and tell them of the beauty that only the initiated can understand assistance that is available the south bank of the supporting. I imagine that we will be paying river. Those of us who have taken the from taxpayers' money not less than time to look at ,the plans and thought $1,000,000 to keep the complex operating. about what will be done in those buildings recognise that we will have something here It follows for me-and I hope that the for Queensland which will stand comparison trust will bear this sort of thing in mind­ with what is being done in other States, that if the taxpayer carries the venture, including the enormous, magnificent Sydney then the venture must be used in such Opera House. While our buildings will not a way that it tunes in on his wavelength. have the same opulent magnificence they I am not suggesting that there should be a will be fine buildings, which will do a perpetual season of ABBA or anything like great deal for the city, facing as they will that; but certainly, being founded, built and the city proper from the southern bank of the carried along on his money, it should not river. We can be very proud of what has be used to force-feed him with an alleged been sta11ted and what will eventually happen. culture that only the eclectic few can under­ stand. By that I am saying that we want I have a small warning to sound. I hope plays that are not consistently sleazy and that when these buildings are erected and sordid and sexual. This applies to many the trust is functioning, the cultural complex forms of the modern dance, too. They does not become an exclusive club for the seem to be aimed at the genitals rather than superior few with somewhat esoteric tastes, at the emotions. whe,ther it be in the field of drama, dance or art. We simply must not ever allow our­ When I was a young radio playwright, selves to fall victims of the snob-culture doc­ using this to eke out a somewhat precarious trine whereby people believe that opera living, we were taught the importance of must be uplifting merely because it is opera the catharsis of drama, that one should use or that odd forms of artistic presentation the interplay of characters and the develop­ must be good because they are odd or ment of plot to arrive at a denouement, which difficult to understand. meant a purge of the emotions-the catharsis I have always believed that the art field of drama. I sometimes wonder whether is very much like the Hans Christian Ander­ the catharsis of drama has not just become sen story concerning the emperor's clothes anoth~r sort of manifestation of the orgasm. in which con people suggested that the A tremendous number of plays are just emperor was wearing such a magnificent suit plain dirty tripe. But the experts tell us 2554 Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill

that these are good, that these are clever. to time we seek the assistance of people Unfortunately, there are not enough of us who are in their 70's. We seek guidance around who are prepared to say that this from their wisdom gained out of the great is rubbish. experience that they have gained over many years. I sometimes think it is stupid for our This is one of the reasons why there are society to downgrade age. We are for­ so many requests for the State to rescue getting about wisdom and experience. We playhouses that have fallen on evil times. forget that if a person is healthy enough and They have fallen on evil times, in the main, mentally alert enough, he should be allowed because they do not provide the sort of to carry on for as long as he feels physically material-the performances-that people want able. I am afraid that by bringing in pro­ to go and see. It is as simple as that. visions such as this one we are throwing aside The same thing applies to movies also. some great experience and some great wisdom. That is my personal view. I make this very minor contribution, but also I want to make these points, in the One gentleman who comes to mind immedi­ hope that the trust, when it is established, ately is Sir Reginald McAllister. How often will ensure that the magnificent set of build­ does the Government seek his assistance? ings that we will have on the south bank He is only one of many such people in the will really do those things that will inculcate community. I come into contact with him culture in all of us. I hope that they will quite often in various organisations. Over manage to institute those activities which many years this Government has made great ensure that more and more people learn use of Sir Reginald's great experience and what good ballet is, what good opera is­ great wisdom. Again that is my personal perhaps, to start with, what good operetta view, but I have held it for many years. is-what good plays are, and so on. I hope Another small point in the Bill concerns that workshop operations will be taken into the representation on the trust. I do not tb e schools so that children will learn some­ offer this as severe criticism. The Bill is a thing and so that they will be given a sense good one and I am not criticising it. I feel of taste and a sense of form and balance that the representation could be a little more for these various types of artistic productions. specific. It could be spelt out more clearly I repeat that culture is not just a matter of that there should be representatives of paint­ catering for the tastes of the few so-called ing, opera and various forms of music such sophisticated experts. It is a matter of ensur­ as choral work, and brass and concert bands. ing that the liking for good art permeates through the whole of the community. This I compliment Mr. Creedy and his staff. is an operation that has to start at the earliest I was very pleased to hear the honourable age. member for Salisbury mention the Cultural Diary, which forms part of our culture. It I wish the trust well. I certainly believe gives a comprehensive run-down and wide that what it will do and the place where coverage of forthcoming cultural events it wili operate will be a credit to this State throughout Queensland. It is a very welcome for many years to come. addition relative to our cultural activities.

Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) (5.49 p.m.): Having I find myself in disagreement with the had the opportunity of studying the Bill honourable member for Salisbury on her since it was printed last week, I find myself statement that Australians lack culture. I [n accord with the honourable member for hope she meant some Australians. I do Rockhampton, who led the debate for the not think that she meant that all Australians Opposition. We are quite happy with the lacked culture. The Australians who are Bill. There are, however, a few minor things most lacking in that regard are public repre­ that I wish to comment on as a reflection sentatives. I attend many concerts and of my own personal feelings about it. Basic­ presentations because I spend the greater ally, the Bill is a good one and will certainly part of my private life in the musical and fulfil the purpose intended. cultural world. I am amazed at the absence of many public representatives, even those I do not agree with my colleague when who might have received complimentary he said that he thought it was a good idea tickets. Over the past 12 months the honour­ to have a retiring age of 70 for the members able member for Wavell is the only honour­ of the trust. I have never su bscr:ibed to able member I have seen at any concerts. that theory and I never will. From time He and his wife attend some concerts in the Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill 2555

city. If we are to brand people for Jacking one of the main attractions for young people in culture, I think we should start close to when they visit Brisbane. home. However, the Bill confers very wide pow­ As I mentioned at the introductory stage, ers and one part that concerns me is section we should remember that many people in our 16, which deals with the objects of the trust. community kept the flag flying for many It reads- years. The Minister's portfolio brings this "The objects of the Trust are-- home to him. He comes into contact with (a} to produce, present and manage the the public-spirited people in the community. performing arts in the building They are not always paid for their services; occupied by the Trust at the Queens­ they give them freely. This applies in the land Cultural Centre as defined in musical and drama fields and especially in the Queensland Cultural Centre the training of young people. I hope and feel Trust Act 1976 or any other build­ sure that the trust will pay due regard and ing;". give high priority to the training of young people in our community. It will be comple­ The words "or any other building" are of mentary to the conservatorium and will be particular concern to me. I know they have of great assistance to the Australian Broad­ been included so that the trust can encompass casting Commission, which has played a other performing arts centres should occasion very important role in our cultural life. to do so arise. I would, however, hate to see that section used as a lever by the trust In conjunction with my colleagues on this to take over and control performing arts in side of the House, I support the Bill fully. other centres throughout the State. I know I feel that Government members will also that that is not the Minister's intention as I support it because it will enhance the cultural have discussed it with him and he has given life of our city. It will bring great prestige me an assurance on this point. But he will to Queensland generally and not only to not always be the Minister for Cultural Brisbane, which is the capital of the State. Activities and we know that the personnel of One of the most important functions of the trust will change from time to time. That the centre will be to help many of our is why I am disturbed. We have the Min­ young talented people from the far-flung ister's assurance and we will now have to parts of Queensland. Talent does not reside keep a very careful eye on this sort of thing. only in Brisbane as you, Mr. Acting Speaker, I am particularly concerned because there well know. Many talented young people is in Innisfail the North Queensland Con­ come from the North and the West and do servatorium. It is funded directly through great credit to themselves and Queensland. the Minister's Department of Cultural Activ­ I am very happy about the setting up of the ities and this system has worked very well. Queensland Performing Arts Trust. We co-operate and work very well with all other arts and crafts in the State; we share Mrs. KIPPIN (Mourilyan) (5.55 p.m.): in visits by artists and we pride ourselves Naturally I think that for metropolitan mem­ that we run a very good programme through­ bers and their constituents the setting up of the trust and the formation of the whole out the whole year. In fact, Innisfail features cultural complex in South Brisbane will be prominently in the list of activities in the marvellous. I hope that country people, par­ Cultural Diary that has already been men­ tioned by the honourable member for Salis­ ticularly schoolchildren, will take every opportunity to make use of these facilities bury. This conservatorium has become estab­ when they come to Brisbane. lished as one of the cultural centres of the North. I have already mentioned the school A Government Member: They will. music programme. It is doing a great deal in the training of musicians which will allow Mrs. KIPPIN: I am sure they will because us eventually to set up and establish our own the project has received a considerable orchestras. We have a North Queensland Sin­ amount of publicity. Despite what has been fonietta. This is a group of young people said in the House about the lack of pub­ centred on the conservatorium and they have licity about cultural activities in Queensland, brought joy to many people over the last knowledge of them is widening. Through the couple of years. school music programme schoolchildren are being made more aware of the joys of not The fact that there is a conservatorium in only listening to music but playing it. I Innisfail makes it easier to attract musicians think that the Cultural Centre will become to the district so that some really talented 2556 Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill artists are available to teach our children. In greatest prestidigitators this State has even a centre so far from Brisbane, that is most known. Anyone who has seen either of important. Innisfail has become a musical those gentlemen or people in the same centre for all North Queensland and people category or the same, shall we say, grouping travel from Cairns, the Atherton Tableland playing with a thimble and pea or doing and Townsville to Innisfail to combine in the three-card trick would consider that orchestras and for ballet and opera perform­ nothing could be better than that, nothing ances. Our opera season has become par­ could be more cultural, nothing could be ticularly famous. I spoke about it in the more artistic and nothing could be more House last year. graceful. Yet that is not considered to be [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] culture. People go along to various places and look Mrs. KIPPIN: In closing I would like, as at hideous daubs that are classed as paintings other members have done, to thank Mr. or some other things that an old broken­ Creedy for the interest that be has shown down goanna would not drink out of in my area. He takes a very active and described as cultural pottery. They look at personal interest in the North Queensland other things that look like nothing on earth Conservatorium and in our other cultural -something between a broken-down race­ activities, and also in our endeavours to horse and a pachyderm-but are termed attract to the North noteworthy artists, and sculpture. Whether an object is described I am sure he plays a big part in seeing that as art or culture depends entirely on the we get the right people. I am not happy taste of the person viewing it. This Bill deals with clause 16 (a) of the Bill, which is with the performing arts. There again we drafted too loosely for my liking. However, run into all sorts of peculiar opinions and I am sure that the Minister will give me an amazing diversity of opinions, too. If an assurance that my fears are without someone goes along to hear opera, he is foundation. supposed to be steeped in culture. Anyone Mr. Burns: What are your fears? who is interested enough to find out about opera will find, as I have found, that opera Mrs. KIPPIN: The Leader of the Opposi­ is perhaps the most pornographic work that tion has heard what I have said-that I do has even been written. not want to see the Queensland Performing Mr. K. J. Hooper: That's why I like it. Arts Trust extend its activities into country areas and take over our performing arts Mr. AIKENS: That is why they like it, centres. and that is why the snobs go to it. That Mr. Burns: That is not the intention. is why they put on the long dresses, the black coats and the bow ties. Mrs. KIPPIN: No, it is definitely not the One of the most famous operas of all, intention of the Bill but, as I said, I feel Verdi's Rigoletto, has in it murder, rape, that this clause is very loosely drafted, and fornication, adu1tery, sodomy, treachery­ that is what concerns me. anything at aJll goes-and it is the same with all the operas. Read the stories of them and Mr. AmENS (Townsville Soul!h) (7.17 you would not get worse in some of the p.m.): This is a Bill dealing with what the paperbacks that people buy in bookshops Minister for Education and Cultural Activities down in the Valley or elsewhere where they is pleased to call the performing arts. I are alleged to be oiroubted. I have never have no doubt that one or two members known of an opera written about a clean, have touched on what they are pleased to decent subject. There is usually seduction. As call culture. I would like any one of them a matter of fact, seduction is the main theme from the Minister down, and he would of any opera. probably know as much as any of the speakers, to tell me just what is culture. Mrs. Kyburz: What is wrong about it? What do they consider to be cultural? Mr. AIKENS: If that was the honourable I have knocked around the ridges for quite member for Mourilyan and she asked me a long time and I have seen many fine what is wrong with seduction, I would say, examples of what I consider to be culture "Well, it depends entirely on who is going and the performing arts. I have seen men to be the seducer and who is going to be like Ned Porter and Nigger Telfer, the the seduced." Queensland Pe1jorming [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill 2557

Mr. Tenni: It was not the honourable big as the honourable member for Archer­ member for Mourilyan. field, though he didn't look as well. He played, and the crowd, because they were Mr. AIKENS: Then it was the honourable told it was cultural, because they were told member for Salisbury. It is a very pertinent that this was high-class music, nearly clapped question, coming from such an attmctive and their hands off. desirable young woman. What is wrong w1nh I was sitting with a member of the medical seduction? There is nothing wrong with profession, a man who knew a great deal seduction. My only regret is that the remorse­ about music. He said to me, "Tom, I ,less passage of the years more or less cramps don't know much about music but there is my styJe. something wrong with that playing. What If an opera is staged, the fouler it is, the is it?" J said, "The only thing wrong with more fornication, murder and sodomy there it is that he is playing too many wrong is in it, of course, the more highly regarded notes. As a matter of fact he plays more it is among the upstart people. The difference wrong notes than right notes." They jarred between an opem and an operetta is that in on my ear. That violinist was applauded, an opera every word is sung and in an and the next morning "The Courier-Mail" operetta some of the words are spoken. 'lauded his performance. If he had been Whether you can understand them or not an old battler who played the mouth organ does not matter, but that is the difference particularly weB, he would not have got between culture and non-culture, apparently. into the City Hall; no-one would have let Some of the Gilbert and SuHivan operettas, him in. some of the musical comedies such as The Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: I ask the hon­ Student Prince and Oldahoma, are wonderful ourable member to come back to the prin­ to listen to. Everyone enjoys them; I do not ciples of the Bill. know of anyone who does not. But no-one goes along to see The Student Prince, Mr. AIKENS: Perish the thought that I Oklahoma or The Pyjama Game dressed in should deviate one hair's breadth from the white tie and tails-in a monkey suit­ principles of the Bill. looking like a waiter in a high-class Greek As this is a Bill dealing with the perform­ oafe. They go a}ong in their ordinary clothes. ing arts, let us ask ourselves: what is art But when the opera comes, it is entirely and what is not art? Is interpretation to be different. The red carpet goes out, the posies, given by Mr. Creedy. the boxes of chocolates, and so on, are handed round, and that is culture. I would say that one of the finest arts that can be performed is choral singing, I do not know what the trust is going to particularly a really well-balanced choir of do. Let us hope that it is not going to hand any number from 40 to 100 with sopranos, out money willy-nilly on the same basis as tenors bases and altos, backed by a good it was handed out, left, right and centre, by accom'panist or orchestra. It is very enjoy­ that peerless personification of culture Arthur able if they render something from Tann­ Creedy. The fouler, the smuttier, the more hauser or any of the music from Sir Edward stupid the play, the more undignified the Elgar. Indeed there are dozens and dozens presentation of anything, the more Creedy of things they can sing. Of course, accord­ regarded it as a wonderful example of ing to Mr. Creedy that is not culture. But culture. I hope that the trust that is to be if some half-witted, long-haired, tick-whiskered set up under the Bill does not have the same drunk tries to p~ay something on the piano viewpoint. that nobody understands, as long as it is something from one of the accepted com­ I know a little about politics-very little, 1 posers, according to Mr. Creedy that is cul­ will admit~but I am prroud to say that I ture, that is, as long as the right type do know something about music, and I have of people are there to listen to it. been along to some of the big musical shows that are supposed to be steeped in It is about time we put an end to all culture. One night I went to hear a violinist this stupid business. It is about time we that the A.B.C. had brought out with a laid down some simple rules as to what is great banging of drums and clashing of culture and what is not culture-not in the cymbals. Money is no object as far as the opinion of the Creedys of Queensland but A.B.C. is concerned, of course. He was an in the opinion of the ordinary, average citi­ infant prodigy, although he was no infant. zens of Queensland, for instance, the members He was 15 years of age and physically as of this House, because they represent a good 2558 Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill

cross-section of the people. I know very all the snobs and all those who purport to well that if the 82 members of this House know something about the performing arts went along to some of the shows that are come out with their faces beaming and eyes advertised and paraded as cultural perform­ glistening because they have been listening rto ing arts, they would walk out. If they had something fuat they were told by someone anything in their hand they would throw else was performing arts. it on the stage before they left. Let us try to get down to tin-tacks. It When people attend a performing arts show is like the argument we had the other day far too many of them, unfortunately, listen about the law, when judges ruled that such with their eyes instead of their ears. They and such a thing was not such as would see 'the pianist, for instance, waving his hands bring on the head of the perpetrator a like a praying mantis, and bashing the key­ prison sentence. Of course, they went on board here and there, and they see a violin­ to say that there were some crimes, which ist giving an exhibition of digital dexterity even though committed by first offenders-- w1th his bow on the violin strings. But that is all that happens. They do not hear t:he Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: Order! performance. They do not know whether Mr. AIKENS: Merely an analogy. the artist is playing music or something less than music. Mr. ACTING SPEAKER: The analogy is not acceptable to the Chair. We hear quite a lot about the performing Mr. AIKENS: Over at the Boggo Road arts and Aboriginal culture. What is Abor­ gaol there is a very fine theatre. I have iginal culture? It is the artefacts or the been to it. I have no doubt that under corroboree dances, some of which are very the present permissive system many of the tuneful? During corroborees some of ,the prisoners turn on good performances. I do Aborigines sing a damn sight bet,ter than not know what the Whisky Au-Go-Go some of our opera singers. We must put murderers sing, but I know that there were an end to this. I know that we have quite three female lecturers from the Queensland a number of snobs in this House, a couple university who used to make regular visits of whom are not far away from me now. to the prison. They were regarded as quite They like to run with the snobs and go to nice people until Stewie Kerr, who was then shows such as the one I saw at the opening the Comptroller-General of Prisons-- of the Schonell Theatre. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition was there at the Mr. ACTil\i"G SPEAKER: Order! I must time. It was one of the occasions on which ask the honourable member to respect the I was prevailed upon to wear a black coat second-reading rules of the House. and tie. We saw a wonderful example ~f Mr. AlKENS: I accept your rebuke. It the performing arts! It had to be antistic is always very welcome because I like to and cultural according to Mr. Creedy be put on the line if I am wandering off because the university was staging it. If a it. gang of boilermakers or wharf Jumpers had Let us end all this slobbering, sickening performed it, they would have been pinched. malarkey. Let us end all this dissimulation Incidentally, during the show each member and casuistry. It is all very well to read of the 40-piece orchestra played his own in the Press and hear over the radio and tune, without any score. The musicians on television that the Queensland Parliament played their various instruments as they passed a Bill to set up a trust fund to thought they should be played Talk about encourage the performing arts. But the a hideous cacophony! I have never heard people will want to know what I want to anything like it. know; what performing arts are to be encour­ aged? On what performing arts will the I did not go to the final performance of people's money be spent? Will it be spent on this show but I understand that it took place some of the things that would turn our about three weeks or a month later. I am stomach sour to look at or hear? not quite sure whether the honourable mem­ ber for Bulimba attended. I know that I cannot embarrass the Chair and that is the last ~hing I would want to I will say that none of the men and women do, but how often have you, Mr. Acting players were dressed indecorously. They Speaker, gone to an alleged cultural per­ wore some sort of half-baked Grecian cos­ forming arts exhibition and come away from tumes. It is on record that in the final it wondering what you were listening to? Yet act, with the Schonell Theatre packed to Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill 2559

the footlights, the male members (there were talent and who have the dedication to do about 20 of them) walked to the footlights for the people what the people want them and dropped their pants and stood there to do. Up in the little town of Innisfail stark naked from

This ::cn~re is going to :ost us an enormous from that honourable member, that is very amount of money. sound thinking. I hope that the Cultural Centre does not forget our country schools. An Honourable Member: $94,000,000. History discloses the large number of import­ ant people who have come from country Mr. LESTER: It will probably be more schools. They include Dame Nellie Melba than $94.000,000. Let us not argue about the and Sir Robert Menzies. cost. It will be a huge sum. I do hope that the members of the trust will not get Mr. Aikens interjected. carried away with all the developments here in Brisbane and forget about the country Mr. LESTER: As the honourable mem­ areas. I point out that we are oettino a ber says, Gladys Moncrieff as well. pretty good deal in country areas. Perfo;m­ I should appreciate serious consideration ing art shows come through country towns being given to one aspect of the Bill-the continually. We will remember Uncle age limit of 70 years for membership of the Bill's Bicycle Band and, more recently, the trust. I cannot see any fair reason for this. Great Australian Pub Show. The Bicycle In this House one of the most brilliant Band was so popular in the Central Highlands members is about 82 years of age and, that it could not appear at the Civic Centre although I do not know his age, I understand in Emerald; it appeared at the racecourse, that another member is well over 70 years where a special stage was built for the per­ of age. For the life of me I cannot see how formance. Just about all of the adults and anyone could argue that these are not import­ children of Emerald were there. They had a ant and good men. During the next election picnic tea and enjoyed that wonderful experi­ campaign we will be saying how g(){)d they ence. Similarly the Great Australian Pub are, yet in this Bill we are contradicting Show was a great success. ourselves by precluding people from being trust members once they reach the age of 70 Every country schoolchild has the oppor­ years. Isn't it reasonable to presume that tunity to see these shows as they come important business people might retire at the through the towns. I pay tribute to the people age of 68 or 69 years and look for some­ who travel all over Queensland to entertain thing to do in the community? I suggest us in the bush. When country people come that if such people have the necessary ability to Brisbane, we want them to be educated they should at least be given the opportunity and be able to appreciate the shows at the to apply to serve on the trust. I would apprec­ Cultural Centre. The only way they can do iate it if the Minister and this House would this is by being able to go along to see the not limit appointment to the trust to people art shows throughout the country areas. I in the under 70 years of age bracket. I am hope that when the trust comes into being it quite sure that a lot of talent will be missed does not have budgetary problems, which if we allow what I see as an injustice to would be to the detriment of the country remain in the legislation. The Minister could people. well remove that restriction.

We have our own theatres in the country Dr. Lockwood: They will still be able to areas, and I instance the Emerald Little perform; it is just that they will not be able Theatre. Not long ago one of its performances to take part in its direction. was attended by a Cabinet Minister-the very cultured Minister for Local Government and Mr. LEErfER: I have tried hard to put Main Roads (Mr. Hinze). It would have been forward some views on the cultural activities noticed, since his return from the country and of country people and, indeed, people in seeing that performance, how much more general. It disappoints me a little that here polite he has been. Clermont has the Myalla in the highest tribunal in the land we cannot Little Theatre comprising, as the honourable have intelligent interjections. Some that member for Townsville South said, ordinary have been made in this debate have been decent people performing on the stage and most unintelligent. In fact, you have been providing entertainment for the people. Again very lenient, N!r. Acting Speaker, in allowing I would not like to see the loss of the help some members to ramble on as they have given to these people. done. However, I appreciate being able to put forward the point of view of those The honourable member for Toowong said who are interested in better cultural activi:ics that the Cultural Centre can expand its activ­ for every Queenslander, yo~m~. old and in ities and go into the schools. As often comes between. Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill 2561

Hon. V. J. BIRD (Bunlekin-Minister for Some members asked about the definition Education and Cultural Activities) (7.47 p.m.), of culture and the arts. We must admit in reply: From what has been said during that here in Australia we do not 'have what this debate it is obvious that all members we could call our own aPts and culture. are in agreement with what is intended in Most of these have been brought to us by the Bill, namely, the setting up of the people from other nations. We were sadly Queensland Performing Arts Trust. Some lacking in knowledge of culture and the arts members have soLJght assurances and perhaps for a long time, but now there is this awak­ l should do them the courtesy of replying ening to the 'true value of these things by to them and giving them those assurances. people from all walks of life. The honourable member for Rockhampton It is true, as I said, that many small raised the matter of the constitution of the centres 'throughout the State have been :rust. I think it will be agreed that there assisted and the arts have been fostered. I should be a representative of my department have travelled very widely since I took over o!l the trust. Experience has also shown the portfolio of Education and Cultural that the trust must include representatives Activities and the types of things that are of the arts and also people with business being done in centres all over ~his State­ acumen. If the conduct of activities of this from very small centres up to our provincial type 11 ere leL entirely to people with a cities-have absolutely amazed me. knowledge only of the arts, they would soon get into difficulties, as has been the The honourable member for Mourilyan case in the past, because their speciality is spoke about the Innisfail Conservatorium of art rather ·,han business. Music. What is being done 'there shows the tremendous interest of the people in that Mr. Aikens: Can you define "arts"? area, and it shows what can be done by people in Far North Queensland. There is Mr. BIRD: I shall reply to the honourable no doubt that the same thing can be done rn~mber a little later. Such people may in other parts of this State if the same know a lot about the arts but unfortunately types of people like to come forward and they are not businessmen. There must, of foster them. course, be representatives of the arts, but at this stage I do not propose to say what Mr. Aikens: We had a pretty raw deal sort of people they will be. I believe they under Alan Fletcher. should be people with knowledge of the arts generally rather than one specific branch Mr. BIRD: I can give the honourable of art. There must also be business people member my assurance that I will look at because it will be necessary to keep a tight any request that comes forward and judge rein on the finances of the centre and the it on its meri,ts. Those organisations thUJt financing of any other activities that may be deserve something may be sure that assist­ undertaken by the trust. The twst could ance will be forthcoming. not be composed entirely of business people because, with a lack of knowledge of the arts I think it was the honourable member for among trust members, the whole project Salisbury who sought an assurance that the would similarly get into difficulties. T believe trust would act in a responsible manner with there will be a very reasonable balance of 1 espeot to dress and admission charges to arts and business knowledge on the trust. performances. I am sure that they will. I am sure tha't they will cater for all tastes and l think it was also the honourable member will ensure that there is a type of perform­ for Rockhampton who asked about allow­ ance or a type of art that will meet the ances. They are determined by the Public requirements of people from all walks of Service Board. They are in categories and life. I have no doubt that they will ensure they are already available. There is no that there is provision for opera, operettas, problem there. I appreciate, too, his observa­ musical comedy, pop groups for the young tion that many suitable people would pro­ people-- bably be prepared to give their time voluntarily to the trust because of their Mr. Aikens: What about choral socie,ties? interest in the arts and culture. Neverthe­ less the allowances are determined and they Mr. BIRD: Choral societies, and all those can be paid to those who are prepared to other organisations. The trust will ensure that come forward and give their services. tastes of all people are catered for. I am The honourable member for Salisbury sure that they will also take into account mentioned the value of the assistance that the types of people who will be attending has already been given by the Government those performances and will make allow­ to the arts and to cultural organisations ances for dress. After all, I do not think throughout the State. I believe 'that Queens­ anybody would expect the youth of this land can indeed hold its head up and be State to attend a pop concePt dressed in justifiably proud of what it has done to black coat and black tie. I am sure that foster 'the arts and various cultural organ­ a different type of dress will be acceptable isations throughout the StUJte. The honour­ on those occasions, and I am sure that the able member also said that she appreciates trust will also take into account the rate of that there is now an awakening to the value charges to be imposed for those perform­ of culture and the arts. ances. 83 2562 Queensland Performing [22 MARC!! 1977] Arts Trust Bill

The honourable member for Toowong Mr. Moore: Why? expressed concern that the centre may become an exclusive club. I have no doubt Mr. BIRD: To provide a safeguard for an whatsoever that the members of the trust organisation that does not like to say to will ensure that rthis does not occur. As I somebody who has served it faithfully and said before, I am sure they will realise well that he should indeed be retired. their responsibilities and ensure that there The honourable member for Sandgate also are performances which meet the require­ expressed his appreciation of the work done ments and the tastes of everybody. over the years by the Director of Cultural The honourable member said he expected Activities and by the Department of Cul­ that it will be necessary to continue sub­ tural Activities. sidising the centre. I doubt whether there would be anywhere in Australia, and possibly I applaud those who have given their time anywhere in the world, a centre of this in the past to train performers and to pro­ type that does not require subsidy. But vide venues for performers. I wonder should we condemn it because of that? I do whether we would have had anything in this not think it was the intention of the honour­ State in the field of performing arts or cul­ able member for Toowong to condemn it. ture had those people not come forward and I think he wanted some assurance that pro­ voluntarily given of their time to train per­ vided it is doing those things that we' hope formers and to ensure that venues were pro­ it will do, it will receive subsidy. I certainly vided. Today, of course, they receive finan­ hope that it will, and the honourable mem­ cial assistance, and that is an additional in­ ber may be assured that I shall do everything centive to them. I should say that today I can to ensure that, provided it is run in a many people would be prepared to. work business-like manner, it is catering for the without any thought of payment or ass1stance needs of the public in the cultural and and to continue to do these things, but l artistic field and it is spending its money am proud that we now give as much assist­ wisely and well, it will continue to receive ance as we can to those who deserve it. subsidy from my department. The honourable member for Mourilyan Mr. Aikens: And I hope there will be no supported the concept of the complex in musical snobbery attached to it. South Brisbane. She appreciates the value it will be not only to Brisbane but also to Mr. BIRD: I sincerely hope that there will the whole of the State. As { said at the be no snobbery attached to the activities introductory stage, it will gi\.; a home to that will be carried out in the Cultural our cultural and artistic groups. She Centre. As I said before, I am sure that expressed concern about clause 6 (a). l those who want to attend an opera will wonder whether she was referring to clause attend an opera, those who prefer operettas 17 (2) (a) when she expressed concern will attend operettas and those who prefer that the trust may endeavour to take over other types of cultural activities and arts will other bodies and the buildings etc. they attend whatever appeals to them. have. She may have been referring to that The honourable member for Sandgate ex­ part of the clause which states "·or any other pressed concern about members being retired person or body with a view to obtaining the at the age of 70 years. I think that that right to occupy and use premises tem­ provision should be in the Bill, because how porarily or permanently". That has been often do we see people go beyond the age included to ensure that the twst can arrange at which they are able to carry out their for various performing bodie~ to perform duties and a board saying, because of its in various places throughout t'Je State. It sympathetic approach, "Poor old Bill; he must be given the right to occ:1;py premises is well and truly beyond it. He is senile, at least temporarily. but he has given great service over the years and we could not possibly stand him down There may be times in th.o future when now."? But if an organisation thinks that a organisations find themselves difficulties so that there is a need for the trust to particular person still has much to offer al­ take over those organisations and their assets. though he has reached the age of 70 years, If we do not make such provision, an I believe that it should be prepared to put organisation might find itself in difficulties forward a case and that favourable con­ and an amendment to the . \et might be sideration should be given to his carrying on required at a time when Parliament is in beyond the age of 70. recess. By the time Parliament resumed Mr. Burns: Did not your party oppose and an amendment was passed, lt might be this morning the 70 years retirement pro­ far too late to assist the organisation. There­ vision for judges? fore it is necessary to have that provision included in the Bill. I have uo fears about Mr. BIRD: I haven't any idea. That has it myself. I can imagine the public outcry nothing to do with the Bill. I am giving there would be if the trust endeavoured to the honourable gentleman my impression of take over the assets and everything else of what I think should be considered. How­ an organisation that did not want to be ever, I believe that the Bill should have taken over. The public outcry would be so written into it a provision for retirement at great that the trust would soon back off. 70 years of age. I do not think the honourable member Queensland Performing (22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill 2563

need have any fears about that at all. I Clause 6-Membership of Trust- believe it is necessary to have that provision included so that if an organisation does get Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (8.8 p.m.): into difficulties the trust can come to its During the second-reading debate the Minister rescue very quickly. made some points about the position of the trust itself and said that its members will The honourable member for Townsville not always be persons involved in the per­ South asked for definitions of "culture" and forming arts. I agree with that. There '·art". I suppose that each and every one is room for people with expertise in the of us would have different views. We can business field to ensure proper financial man­ say roughly what culture is and what art agement. I also believe that there should is. but every person asked might have a be representation of the Brisbane City Coun­ different anS\'I'er. We all have different tastes. ciL I ask the Minister to consider this f wou!d be t'Je first to admit that what matter and give an undertaking that he is appeals to some certainly may not appeal at least prepared to invite someone from to others. Some things certainly do not the Brisbane City Council to play a part. appeal to me although they are regarded That is done in South Australia. If the as art and culture by others, Those people Brisbane City Council was represented there have a right to decide what they regard would be not only co-ordination of the city's as art and what they regard as culture. We activities but also the necessary Jiaision with h~pe that the needs and tastes of those people the city council itself. Whenever local wlll be met by the trust. I certainly hope authorities in country areas are involved that if the trust tries to cater for the tastes in cultural centres, they are usually deeply of a minority group with certain performances involved and quite often they control them it allows to go on, and they prove to be through the chairmanship of the mayor. An dismally unsuccessful, the trust will learn important part can be played by local a lesson very quickly and realise that that authorities in this way. I ask the Minister is not what the public requires and ensure to consider that point. I do not think that that type of performance is not put that one member out of nine is too much to on again in the centre. ask for. I do not think that any of us should try to define for another person what is regarded Hon. V. J. BIRD (Burdekin-Minister for as culture and what is regarded as art. The Education and Cultural Activities) (8.9 p.m.): people themselves have their own definitions It would be more important for the city and they will decide for themselves. I cer­ council to be represented on the Cultural tainly have no fear about what will be Centre Trust. This provision deals mainly accomplished by the Performing Arts Trust with the performing arts and what will be and about what it will do not only in th~ done over there, but I shall certainly give Cultural Centre on the south bank of the the matter consideration. river but in the schools and for the people nght throughout country areas. Mr. DEAN (Sandgate) (8.10 p.m.): I am The honourable member for Belyando told referring to clause 6 (b). As I said earlier, I u~ how pleased he was with the assistance think it should be a little more specific in its that had been given to country centres. It application. It says- is obvious from his comments that he takes a very close interest in many of the cul­ "not less than four of the other mem­ tural activities in his electorate and indeed bers shall be persons who are is involved in them. He has se~n what knowledgeable and experienced in the can be done by people who are assisted by performing arts." the Government and my Cultural Activities Department, He expressed the hope that Again it comes back to an interpretation of the trust wHJ not forget country areas and what constitutes a performing art. I think the schools. I am sure that once the that should be spelt out a little more clearly. tru~t settles in, it will give even greater assistance to country areas than has been I will not go into the detail that I went into :;;iven in the past. He referred to the at the second-reading stage as to the different 70-year age limit. As I said, I firmly believe sections of the performing arts that I think that that provision should be in the Bill. should come within that category. lf it is considered at any time in the future that a person is well and truly capable At some time in the future, after a Bi1l of carrying on beyond the age of 70, I becomes law, we sometimes find that it has bdieve that the organisation should put for­ ward a case to be considered. a partkular weakness and we seek to amend it. That is the reason for a good proportion Motion (Mr. Bird) agreed to. of amending legislation. That is my only comment. I have no other criticism of it. I COMMITTEE do not think the term is broad enough to (Mr. Row, Hinchinbrook, in the chair) allow interpretation of the performing arts. If the Minister mixed among the people as I Clauses to 5, both indusive, as read, do, he would hear their different ideas on agreed 1o. how they would restrict what is constituted 2564 Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill by the tei'm "performing arts". It is amaZiing. sponsored them went along to the trust or I sometimes think that, in legislation such as to the Minister and put up a special case for this, these terms should be spelt out a little them to be members on the trust. I think more oleady. it should be the other way about. Anyone should be eligible for membership of the Hon. V. J. BIRD (Burdekill-Minister for trust unless it oan be shown by the trust Education and Cultural Activities) (8.11 itself that he is not mentally or physically p.m.): There are, as the honourable member capable of carrying out his duties. knows, very many groups who would con­ sider themselves as coming within the term I have always been virulently opposed, "performing arts". It would be very dan­ even when in the Railway Department, to gerous to try to list them a],] he,re this laying down hard and fast rules based on evening, for, if I missed some out, they chronology-the number of years a man has would say, "The Minister does not regard lived-because some men live for a long time us as belonging to the performing arts." The and are still hale and hearty. When all is opera groups, musical groups and others of said and done, many men are old at 40 or that type oan be regarded as coming within 45 years of age. They are aged and decrepit. the category "performing arts". It is obvious have given up the ghost and are broken that the potters and others do not come physically and mentally. On the other hand, within that category. Rather are they in the many nonagenarians are capable men. There crafts. I do not think we should endeavour are men such as the honourable members for to spell them out. As I said earlier, what we Rockhampton and Cairns who are old in need to do is to get the right type of person years but still virile and young in physique rather than the performing art that he and mentality. represents. I can tell this story about the Premier Mr. AIKENS (Townsville South) (8.12 because l know he is regarded highly by p.m.): Clause 6, of course, is the one that almost everyone in the community. The other sets down the age limit of 70 years for day a very fine old lady said to me, "We members of the trust. I know that in general hear a lot from Mr. Bjelke-Petersen. How terms there is something to be said for the old is he?" I said, "He is a sexagenarian." remarks made by the Minister for Education, She said, "At his age he ought to be ashamed and particularly his qualification of them in of himself." which he places the onus on the organisation to prove that a person is still mentally and The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. physically competent to carry on a position Row): Order! I hope that the honourable on the trust. I really think that there should member will return to the clause, be something in the BiU to lay that down. I am not breaking a lance for myself by Mr. AIKENS: I told that story because saying that I am over 70 years of age, and the Premier is almost 70 years of age and yet I think I am just as well and hale and who would say that he is beyond his powers? hearty, physicaHy and mentally, as the Who would say that he could not sit on this majority of members in this Chamber. I trust? The Leader of the Opposition is not as think that I would bear favourable compar­ old in years as the Premier but, compared ison with the Minister himself in either of with the Premier physically and mentally, he those respects. is the epitome of decrepitude. I would like to point out to him that there is a very old and wise saying that age I think something should be written into is not a matter of how old you are but how the Bill to place the onus on the trust to hold you are old. For instance, if Churchill had a man out rather than place the onus on the had the 70-year restriction placed on him, man to get onto the trust. we probably would not have won World War II. Clause 6, as read, agreed to. If the Minister knew as much about art Clauses 7 to 15, both im.:lusi· "'' as read, and culture as I hope he finishes up knowing, he would know that some of the greatest agreed to. works of art-some of the greatest paintings Clause 16-0bjects of Trust- that hang on the waJ;Is of the greatest galleries in the world-were painted by Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (8.18 p.m.): octogenarians and nonagenarians-for in­ When I suggested local authority representa­ stance, Titian, Michelangelo and Leonardo tion, the Minister said it could be covered da Vinci. I think Titian was in his 90s by the Queensland Cultural Centre Trust Act. when he painted some of his masterpieces. It seems, on a reading of sections 21 and 22 So it was with other men. How old was of the Act, that there is a great overlap Verdi, the man who composed the greatest and it should be looked at very carefully. operas of all time? Verdi was an octogena­ Clause 16 (d) of the Bill reads- rian when he was stili at the peak of his composing powers. Yet, if those men were "to provide or assist in providing in Queens'land today and wanted to become premises and equipment for the pur­ members of this trust, they would be baared pose of the presentation of the per­ from doing so unless the organisation that forming arts; Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill 2565

Section 21 of the Act I mentioned reads­ in Queensland? ] feel that there must be "(a) to encourage and facilitate activities some sort of control over the performing in artistic, scientific, cultural or per­ arts. It becomes a matter of how far such forming arts throughout the State; control goes. "(b) to recommend to the Minister the I therefore think that there should be buildings and other improvements that some ciarification of the way in which we should be erected on the land and are to overcome the overlap and how far comprised in the Centre and the loca­ the new board will have control of the tion of the buildings and improve­ presentation, development and promotion of ments; the performing arts. "(c) subject to the rights, powers or duties Hon. V. J. BIRD (Burdekin-Minister for granted to or imposed upon an occu­ Education and Cultural Activities) (8.22 pant of any land, building or part p.m.): I believe that the prime purpose of thereof comprised in the Centre or the Cultural Centre Trust is to provide the any other Act, to control and maintain buildings and everything that goes with them. in good order and condition and to The Bill is to arrange for the performance improve the Centre;" of the various arts in that centre. Finally, (d) talks about the maintenance of the buildings. l'1r. Wright: Section 21 (a) says clearly that it is to encourage and facilitate these Clause 16 of the Bill covers the promotion, activities. encouragement and presentation of the per­ forming arts. Who will be involved in the Mr. lHRD: Yes. but the prime object of promotion and development of the perform­ the Cultural Centre Trust is to provide that ing arts? Will it be the board of the Queens­ centre. Provisions were also included in land Cultural Centre or the Queensland Per­ the Bill to cover anything that the trust forming Arts Trust? may find it necesary to conduct in the future. Section 22 (2) (a) reads- At this stage it is envisaged that the prime "to make and carry out such contracts, duty of the Cultural Centre Trust will be agreements or arrangements as are in to provide the buildings. They will be not its opinion necessary or desirable to oniy the buildings of the Performing Arts enable it to properly perform its Complex but also the State Library, the functions and duties or any of them;" Art Gallerv and the Museum. It will be responsible· for them all. Clause 17 (2) (a) of the Bill reads- "to enter into leases, licences or other If representation on the trust were given contracts with the Queensland Cultural to the Brisbane City Council, surely every Centre Trust as defined in the Queens­ other local authority in this State would feel land Cultural Centre Trust Act 1976 that it, too, was entitled to representation or any other person or body with a because the trust will foster art and culture view to obtaining the right to occupy O\ er the length and breadth of the State. and use premises temporarily or per­ This is a matter to which I will give con­ manently;" sideration, but 1 do not think it absolutely essential that the Brisbane City Council be Again there is an overlap and the Assembly represented on the Performing Arts Trust. should be told exactly who will be in charge. :;,cr. Wrighi: What about the film industry? There are two groups prompting cultural activities, there are t'VO groups deciding who will be occupants of the premises, and there lVKr. BIRD: At present that is only some­ are two groups in the development of the thing that is being thought about arts. The Minister shakes his head to icc:icate the negative but I believe what I Mrs. KIPPIN !Mourilyan) (8.24 p.m.): At am saying to be so. Both sections are the second-reading stage the Minis1er querieLI saying in effect, "\Ve shall encourc.tge, whether L should have been referring to deveiop and promote the performing arts." clause 17 (2) (a). I should like to say Admittedly the Queensland Cultural Centre that my reference was to clause 16 (a). Trust Act refers to the artistic, scientific, I can see the purpo:;e of clause l7 (2) (a). cultural and/ or performing arts, but it still Howc:vc;·. it is the words "or any other mentions the performing arts. So there building" in clause 16 (a) that concern me. is still this overlap aad it needs clarification. I should like to point out that in effecting take-overs the bnreaucracy can often be very Another point that I believe needs clari­ subtle. I can envisa?e one way in which fication is the control that the trnst will a take-over of the North Queensland Con­ have over the new film industry. Surely servatorium by the trust could be effected, if we are going to speak about presentation that is, if the Cultural Activities Depart­ of the performing arts-! refer here to sec­ ment could be persuaded to channel its tion 16 (e)-we are not only talking about funding through the trust rather than directly the physical presentation on stage. Surely to the conservatorium. That would certainly we must also be talking about the scientific be a very clever way of doing it. How­ approach such as the use of video tape ever, I am quite willing to accept the Minis­ today. Is there to be some control over ter's assurance that this is not the intention the film industry that is expected to develop of the legislation. There is now a "Ha:~'ard" 2566 Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill record that this point has been taken and in each year out of the consolidated revenue the situation will have to be watched very of the State for the purposes of and paid closely in the future. to the Trust." Clause 16, as read, agreed to. When we start to look at audits and accounts we find that all the Auditor-General has to Clause 17-General powers of Trust- do is check the books to see that they are in a~reement with the books and accounts Mrs. KYBURZ (Salisbury) (8.25 p.m.): I kept ~by the trust and in his opinion fairly am particularly concerned about clause 17 set out the financial transactions of the trust (2) (g), which refers to the powers of t~e for the financial year in question. He then trust to publish works and to license t?~1r gives the Minister a report which does not performance in any form. I do not beheve come to this Parliament. I raise this point that it should be the prerogative of a trust because in the "Financial Review" of 8 such as this to publish works. After all, the February 1977 appeared a story about decisions which have to be made to enable Queensland which stated in part- any work to be published-I presume it refers to poetry and fiction and non:-fiction prose­ " ... the Golden Casket money that are too great for a trust, which is, after all, once went to hospitals being poured into a trust appointed by this Government. In a $94 million cultural centre of theatres, fact, 1 can see reason to be worried about an art gallery and opera hall." political graft, for want of a better word, I remember a Cultural Centre Trust being and oifts, favours and so on. Moreover, I introduced by Sir Gordon Chalk about 12 just do not think it is the prerogative of the months ago and the ~ost mentioned was trust to make that sort of a decision. I am 547,000,000. Now, we p1ck up the paper and not sure what is meant by "to license their find that it is $94,000.000. performance". Does it mean that a perform­ ance may be given in other States and that Mr. Bird: That was based on the value we are going to have a copyright of a of the dollar at that time. It was never particular performance? If the members of a anticipated that it would be completed for small theatre write their own plays, for $45.000,000. It was $45.000.000 on 1975 example, will the trust then be able to values. publish the works and license their perform­ ance in ether States? That is not very clear Mr. BURNS: The point 1 am making is to me. that although no-one is arguing that we should not have a cultural centre, we do not want it to be like the Sydney Opera House, Hon. V. J. BIRD (Burdekin-Minister for which needed hundreds of lotteries to finance Education and Cultural Activities) (8.26 p.m.): it. We in this Parliament should have some The honourable member will see from clause check on what is happening. The argument 17 (2) (c) that the trust has the power to which I will be putting forward in the debate employ writers, composers, choreographers, on the Financial Administration and Audit designers, producers, directors, instructors, Bill is that we ought to ensure that •the technical personnel and such other employees Auditor-General reports to us on whether as it sees fit. If it is going to employ we are getting value for money. It seems writers and composers, then it should have to me that under clause 31 it is a continuing the right to publish the works that are commitment. prepared by those people and, indeed, to license the performance of works created Mr. Bird: No. by those people who are actually in its employ. Mr. BURNS: Well, it is a continuing commitment. Clause 17, as read, agreed to. Mr. Bird: No. Clauses 18 to 30, both inclusive. as read. agreed to. Mr. BURNS: Look at the large number of things that the trust can do. Members Clause 31-General fund- have already raised them under clauses 16 and 17. It could be that i·t will make Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the continuing demands on the Minister or the Opposition) (8.27 p.m.): I rise to speak to Treasurer of this State for more and more this clause because of what seems to be the funds. Under clause 31, as I see it, we open-ended commitment to the Cultural crive the trust money and, later, under clause Centre and this Performing Arts Trust we are 34-accounts and audit-it makes a report setting up. If we read the objects of the to the Minister and the Auditor-General trust and its general powers, and listen to reports to the Minister. I do not what members have said today in relation to think that is good enough. The people clauses 16 and 17. the trust is going to be in this State, and people all over the world, a grab-all and all-powerful body that can are demandincr more and more not only that be involved in a tremendous number of Governments "'should have an accounting of activities. All that clause 31 says is- whether money has been spent according to "There shall be paid into the general the dockets and so on, but also that they fund all moneys appropriated by Parliament s'hould get 'value for money. In addition, Queensland Performing [22 MARCH 1977] Arts Trust Bill 2567

there ought to be a ~ype of zero-based also to the people of this State. Organisa­ accounting. Each year we must see whether tions such as cultural groups and art groups the commitment we have made to this new realise now that there must be a greater trust is such that we ought to begin saying accountability, that there is not a bottom­ to ourselves, "We ought to cut back." less bucket from which they can continue to In my opinion, either clause 31 or clause extract as much finance as they want. There 34 ought to include a provision making the must be greater responsibility, and they trust accountable to the Parliament, not realise that they have to be accountable. simply to the Minister. Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (8.34 Hon. V. J. BIRD (Burdekin-Minister for p.m.): I take the Minister up on thart point. Education and Cultural Activities) (8.31 He says that they must be accountable. I p.m.): I has,ten to assure the Leader of the note that in the clauses dealing with finance, Opposition that he has nothing to fear in from clause 30 right through to clause 52, this regard. All the financial provisions in there is reference rto the loan fund. If we clauses 30 to 52 are standard for bodies are to exercise control, I wonder why the of this type. They have been perused by trust needs to have a loan fund. It is going the Audi.tor-General and the Treasury and to get moneys from Consolidated Revenue found to be acceptable. The provisions and a special trust fund is being established cover the funds, accounts in ,the budget and for those people who wish to make gi£ts or borrowing powers. The following general appropriate money for some special purpose, points should be noted: firstly, the trust bud­ yet we are going ,to allow the trust to borrow get must be approved by the Minister; sec­ extensively. Admittedly, section 33 talks ondly, the accounts will be subject to audit about ,the loan fund and the audit 'that is to by the Audi.tor-General; and thirdly, the be required, but then Division II goes on trust will report annually to Parliament to deal with the power 1to borrow, not only through the Minister. So there is an assurance from the Treasurer but also by the sale of that they are not going 'to be able to run debentures and so on. We need to know riot, that they are indeed accountable not more about how much money this organ­ only to me but also to Paraliament. isation will require. The TEMPORARY CHAffiMAN {Mr. Mr. BURNS (Lyt,ton-Leader of the Row}: Order! Does the honourable member Opposition) (8.32 p.m.): We also need a check each year that the commi,tment is not wish to debate another clause of the Bill? open-ended. The argument that I am putting Mr. WRIGHT: I think we might take forward now could also be put forward on them together, Mr. Row, to save time. If the Financial Administration and Audit Bill. we take them one by one it will waste the Having made a commitment to spend time of the Committee. $47,000,000 on ,(be Cultural Centre or $X million on the Performing Arts Trust, we One wonders about the financial borrow­ ought to be able to say t'hat that does not ing capacity of the trust. Are we starting to mean that we will continue that commitment talk about many millions of dollars? The for ever. We must have the right to cut Leader of the Opposition mentioned that the it off if it becomes too heavy. What seems centre itself could cost $94,000,000. Ad­ to happen is that from the day we give the mittedly that does not have much to do with first dollar a demand is made that we the Queensland Performing Arts Trust as continue the payment of that money for the overall capital cost goes back to the evermore. Cultural Centre itself. But why would the trust have to borrow? How does it repay As I said, it probably is a matter that those loans-out of Consolidated Revenue? ought to be brought up on the next Bill under Is it going to be like local authorities so that the powers of the Auditor-General. We it will simply keep borrowing, with interest need to know that we are getting value for and redemption payments, so that one day money, and we need to have from such they will reach 55 and 60 per cent of its bodies a report each year showing not only revenue? Maybe we need a further explana­ that they have paid out according to the tion here. dockets but also that they are really living up to the promises made when the trust Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the was first set up. I worry a little bit about Opposition) (8.36 p.m.): Surely someone has some of these commi·tments. They grow said to the Minister, "The trust is going to and grow like Topsy, and we continuallY cost so many million dollars a year" or "so mcrease rates, taxes and other charges. Some­ many hundred thousand dollars a year." Is how or other, it seems that usually the poor there any estimate of what the Minister ex­ old worker is the one who pays most. pects to spend next year in the appropriation for this particular trust? Hon. V. J. BIRD (Burdekin-Minister for Education and Cultural Activities) (8.33 Hon. V. J. BIRD (Burdekin-Minister for p._rn.): I am sure t.hat the people who con­ Education and Cultural Activities) (8.37 stitute the 'trust Will be responsible people p.m.): I certainly could not give tonight a that they will realise that they must b~ figure of what is going to be required. At accountable not only to the Parliament but this time we have no idea how many of the 2568 Financial Administration [22 MARCH 1977] and Audit Bill performing arts groups will want to use the somewhat. I do not believe that it should centre when it is set up. As time progresses take 18 months to implement the Bill. I and the centre nears completion, each and know the explanation is given that we have every one of those groups will advise the to set up internal audit organisations, make trust how long it will want to book the regulations under clause 82 and provide centre. That will allow a budget to be accounting manuals under clause 45, but it framed. is fairly obvious that this measure has been under discussion for a long time. It is Mr. Burns: You do not expect the trust to important that we should introduce a more be doing any work in country areas before modern system of accounting as soon as the completion of the centre? possible. I am sure that no-one is satis­ Mr. BIRD: It is highly possible that it fied with the current system. It is fairly will. First of all it will have to formulate obvious that the Government is not satis­ what it is going to do. We have not got a fied; if it were, the Bill would not have trust yet. The Bill authorises us to set up been introduced. I wonder if we can get a _trust. Once the trust is set up, those people a clear explanation and if it is possible to w1ll formulate their ideas on what they want implement the Bill this financial year. to do. . They will then prepare a budget. They w1ll come to me in the first instance .Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah and subsequently to Parliament, to seek -Premier) (8.42 p.m.): I am quite sure that approval of that budget covering finance to the Auditor-Generai and the officers con­ allow the:n to carry out their programmes. cerned are very much up to date in every It 1s obvJOus that they will have to obtain respect. No doubt changes are taking place funds from various sources. One of those from time to time in the whole system. The honourable member will have to contain will be from a loan fund. The trust will himself on this point. As time goes on, seek its finan~es in various ways, just as there will no doubt be some change. a local authonty or any other organisation does. It will not all be outgoing finance· Clause 2, as read, agreed to. 171oney will be coming in from the charge~ Clau~e 3, as read, agreed to. 1mposed on the patrons using the centre. Clause 4-Repeals and savings- Clause 31, as read, agreed to. Clauses 32 to 64, both inclusive, as read, Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ agreed to. Premier) (8.43 p.m.): I move the following Bill reported, without amendment. amendment:- "On page 2, omit all words comprising lines 33 to 38 both inclusive and insert FlNANClAL ADMINISTRATION AND in lieu thereof the following words:- AUDIT BILL '(4) The repeal by this Act of section 8 of The Local Bodies' Loans Guaran­ COMMITTEE tee Act and Audit Acts Amendment (Mr. Row. Hinchinbrook, in the chair) Act of 1936 which inserted in The Audit Clause 1-Short title- Act of 1874 as subsequently amended section 30A and by that section 30A Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah inserted in The Public Service Acts, -Premier) (8.40 p.m.): I move the following 1922 to 1924 section 4A, and of The amendment- Audit Act of 1874 and subsequent "On page 1, line 6, omit the expression­ amendments, shall not affect the con­ '1976' tinued operation of section 4A of the and insert in lieu thereof the expression- Public Service Act 1922-1976.'" '1977'." This amendment is merely a tidying up of The short title of the Act will now become the drafting by the Parliamentary Counsel the Financial Administration and Audit Act and introduces no new principle. 1977, rather than the Financial Administra­ Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed tion and Audit Act 1976, which was the to. year of its introduction. That is the only Clause 4. as amended, agreed to. reason for the amendment. Clause 5-Interpretation- Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed to. Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Clause 1, as amended, agreed to. -Premier) (8.46 p.m.): I move the following Clause 2-Commencement- amendment:- "On page 3, line 20, insert after the Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the word 'for' the words- Opposition) (8.41 p.m.): I understand that 'public property or other property'." in order to facilitate the smooth introduc­ tion of any legislation, the date of com­ The amendment is merely a tidying up of mencement of the law may be delayed, but drafting by the Parliamentary Counsel and I understand from this memorandum that introduces no new principles. the target date for the commencement of Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed this Bill is 1 July 1978. That disturbs me to. Financial Administration [22 MARCH 1977] and Audit Bill 2569

Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah (b) a member of the Police Force; -Premier) (8.47 p.m.): I move the following further amendment- (c) an officer of a Crown corporation or instrumentality or a statutory "On page 4, omit all words comprising corporation or instrumentality rep­ Hnes 8 to 11 both inclusive, and insert in resenting the Crown the expendi­ lieu rhereof the following words:- ture of which is subject to appro­ ' "department" means a department of priation by Parliament;'." the Government of the State and Amendment agreed to. includes- (a) the Railway Department; Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah (b) where the case requires it, a sub­ -Premier) (8.52 p.m.): I move the following department, branch or section orf further amendment- a department; "On page 5, line 48, omit the expres­ (c) a Crown corporation or instrumen­ sion- tality or a statutory corporation '1973' or instrumentality representing the and insert in lieu thereof the expression- Crown the expenditure of which '1976'." is subject to appropriation by Parliament;'." Since the introduction of the Bill, the Public Service Act has been amended by the Elec­ Since the BiH was introduced, the House tricity Act and the short title of that Act has passed the Electricity Act of 1976, under has accordingly been amended to read the which the State Electricity Commission will "Public Service Act 1922-1976." no longer be a department of the State under the Public Service Act, with a permanent Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed head or officers under that Act. This and to. correlated amendments have been moved to Clause 5, as amended, agreed to. ensure that the provisions of the Bill will still apply to the State Electricity Commis­ Clauses 6 to 10. both inclusive, as read, sion and, indeed, to every Crown corpora­ agreed to. · tion or instrumentality (or statutory corpora­ Clause 11-Powers of Treasurer re Trust tion or instrumentality) representing the and Special Funds- Crown, the expenditure of which is subject to appropriation by the Parliament. Further, Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the the amendment makes it clear that the Opposition) (8.53 p.m.): I rise briefly to Auditor-General wiH audit the acts of the express my reservation at the powers granted commission and any other such corporation to the Treasurer. This clause gives him very or instrumentality, and report to Parliament wide powers with little means for an immed­ thereon. iate check on his activity. Under the clause Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed he may establish or close additional funds to. forming part of the trust and special funds and approve and allow interest of such an Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah amount. The clause leaves the Treasurer with -Premier) (8.49 p.m.): I move the following fairly substantial powers without, as I see it, further amendment- any redress for the full Parliament. Some "On page 4, line 47, omit the other additional check for better and more expression- open government ought to be provided than '1974' the Governor in Council. What I am arguing and insert in lieu thereof the expression- about is what has been argued lOO times in this Chamber-Cabinet government as '1976'." opposed to parliamentary government or Since the Bill was introduced, the City of responsibility to us. I place on record my Brisbane Act 1924-1974 was amended by concern over that particular matter. the Electricity Act of 1976, and the short title of that Act is now the City of Brisbane Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Act 1924-1976. -Premier) ( 8.54 p.m.): This has always been Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed the custom. There is nothing new associated to. with it. Clause 11, as read, agreed to. Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ Premier) (8.50 p.m.): I move the following Clause 12-Departmental accounts sub­ further amendment- sidiary to the jEihlic a~councs-- "On page 5, omit all words comprising Mr, CASEY (i\'1 ackav) (8.55 r m. l: The lines 28 to 30 both inclusive and insert in point I wm~ld Lke lO raise at this stage­ liecl thereof the following words:- and perhar' the Premier might cbrify it­ . "officer" means an officer within the relates to our n

the bus:ne>s world and it has received the Clactse 12, as read, agreed to. support of various accountancy societies Clauses 13 to 17, both inclusive, as read, throughout the whole of Australia. There are agreed to. strong moves to get Taxation Department and Federal Government approval of this Clause IS-Departmental bank accounts method. It is a completely new concept in subsidiary to the public bank accounts- accounting. Hon. J. HJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Clause 5 now refers to Crown corporations -Premier) (8.59 p.m.): I move the following and instrurnentalities and statutory corpora­ amendment:- tions and instrurnentalities representing the "On page 12, line 6, insert after the Crown. Quite a number of these are operated word 'all' the words- as private business concerns. The Railway 'money·~ with respect to'." Department may be considered to be one of them although it is in fact different because The amendment is moved to clapify the mean­ it receives a large appropriation from Con­ ing of the clause. It does not introduce any solidated Revenue. new principle. Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed There are, however, other organisations to. such as the Totalisator Administration Board that do not receive major appropriations Clause 18, as amended, agreed to. from Parliament but obtain their finance in Clauses 19 to 22, both inclusive, as read, other ways. As Crown instrurnentalities or agreed to. corporations, they are now acquiring consider­ Clause 23-Availability of appropria­ able property. The T.A.B. headquarters at tions- Albion is one such example. T.A.B. finances are invested in shops and buildings in various Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the places throughout the State. Opposition) (9 p.m.): Clause 23, which relates Under current cost accountancy a com­ to the availability of appropriations, states- pletely different approach to these activities "Every appropriation made for the is adopted. I should like to know if it is supply services of any financial year shall the intention of the Auditor-General to use be available for the services of that year the accountancy methods now being followed provided that payments on account of by the accountancy profession in his examina­ those services are made during that year tion of these organisations. I think that is a or within 14 days after the end of that fairly important question. A significant year and the balance of any appropriation change is now coming about. The Premier then unexpended shall lapse and shall not will appreciate through his own business be issued or applied in any future financial interests that, whilst roost members of the year." accountancy profession know what is going One of the blights on Public Service activity on, many people who are themselves involved in this State is the rush at the end of the in business have no idea of the implications year to spend money because if it is not and complications of this new method of spent it is lost to the department and goes accountancy if it is approved. back into the melting pot. So departmental I understand from people in fairly high officers ring up schools and ask "Have you circles that it is most likely that it will be got a fence you want repaired or some work approved. The Taxation Department is hold­ done here or there?", or people buy goods ing out. The whole idea is to bring about that they do not really need and stack them a more equitable profit system within the in stores. It is a sort of end-of-the-year rush. a~countancy profession. Current cost account­ Mr. Moore: They cut down the appro­ ing is a means of dealing more rapidly priation for the next year if they don't spend with problems that are created by inflation it. in the presentation of balance sheets and Nofit and loss accounts. There is also a Mr. BURNS: That is it. I am not an constant revaluation and upgrading of assets accountant by any means, but I read the and/ or stock included in balance sheets. section on programme budgeting in the ex­ That is the request that I now put to the planatory memorandum that was handed to Premier. I ask whether current cost account­ us and it seems to me that we ought to ing will be extended to Crown instrumentali­ have a three-year rolling Budget and some ties which are operated completely on sort of plan so that if a department does not business lines. spend the money this year it does not lose it-it does not go back into the pot. Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN CBarambah If the Government said, for example, that -Premier) (8.57 p.m.): Current cost account­ Queensland should have a cultural centre ing has reference to accrual accounts. It has and it allocated $40,000,000 for that pur­ little reference to cash flow accounts, pose one year and then because of rain or which are the basis of public accounts. If the some other reason it spent only $38,000,000, honourable member wants to study the matter why should $2,000,000 go back into the pot? further, the oase is argued at page 3 of the If it really believed $40,000,000 should have explanatory memorandum. been spent in the first place why should Financial Administration [22 MARCH 1977] and Audit Bill 2571 it not be spent? It seems crazy to be transfers between items within the same sub­ writing this sort of thing into the Bill now division in the approved estimates. Pre­ when each one of us at some stage in his par­ viously this power has been vested in the liamentary career has, I am sure, moaned to Governor in Council. It is now being taken himself about this idea of rushing to spend from the Governor in Council and given to the last little bit of money before the end the Treasury Department. There is no of the year. question that it will mean that the Treasury will have increased powers. So we are It seems to me that this is a waste of beginning to build up in the Treasury system money, and we know it is a waste of money. an elite set-up under which not only will We know that time and time again public the department have complete power over servants have been told to find some reason the funding of the various departments but for spending money so that the department also Treasury officials will take away from does not lose it. the Governor in Council the power to effect On page 6 of the memorandum I see that transfers between subdepartments of the the Government has concluded that the func­ various departments of funds set out by tion of programme auditing is not properly Parliament in the Appropriation BilL that of the Auditor-General. I do not know If a Minister needs to transfer funds from whether it is his function or not, but I believe one section of his department to another that full programme auditing should be section, I do not think that he should have looked at such as is now applied in Great to rely solely on the Treasury to effect that Britain, New Zealand, Canada, the United transfer for him. If he has a brief in that States and France. Canada has now rt!spect and he wishes to carry it out but established programme budgeting after a the Treasury does not wish to aHow him three-year phase-in, and all portfolios are to do so, the Governor in Council must looked at on functional and programme lines have an overriding power, as it always has where policy makers and Ministers are held in the past. I should like to hear from truly accountable to the people for the suc­ the Premier what he thinks of that. Does cess or failure of their programme. In such some clause of the Bill stiU give the Governor forward estimates, programmes are ranked in Council overriding power to change a in order of priority and include current decision of the Treasury Department on that revenue and expenditure as well as capital point? expenditure. I claim that this clause is only going to Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ add to that rush every half year or in each Premier) (9.7 p.m.): My officers have June or July to spend all the money that informed me that this is traditional procedure has not been spent out of the appropriation. wherever the Westminster system of govern­ r do not believe it adds anything at all to ment applies. The situation in Canada and the operation of the State Government. all other countries is identical. There is nothing new in it. Mr. Casey: Even if it was 30 days it would come within normal trading terms. Mr. Casey: But it is new to Queensland. Mr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: It is universal Mr. BURNS: As the honourable member in the system of government under which we for Mackay says, why 14 days? Why not operate. 30 days, or 90 days? Why not allow some Clause 24, as read, agreed to. period in which it could reasonably be ex­ pected that the money would be spent if Clauses 25 to 31, both inclusive, as read, because of seasonal conditions or the non­ agreed to. supply of goods on order or if for some Clause 32-Payment of moneys by the reason the contractors were not able to keep Agent-General- to a time-table, a department had been delayed? It does seem to me to be unreason­ Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the able and unwarranted to have such a pro­ Opposition) (9.8 p.m.): Clause 30 deals with vision in the Bill. the payment of public moneys from depart­ mental expenditure bank accounts and lays Clause 23, as read, agreed to. down certain requirements relative to those Clause 24--Transfers between sub- accounts. Clause 32 provides specifically divisional items- for preferred treatment of the Agent-General. f ask why the Agent-General is not required Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (9.4 p.m.): When in the same way as other departments to speaking to one of the earlier clauses the submit the vouchers at regular intervals to Leader of the Opposition raised a query with the Treasury. I seek an explanation of why the Premier regarding an alteration to a the Agent-Geneml's office is treated dif­ clause giving greater powers to the Treasury. ferently from other departments. In his answer the Premier indicated that there were no problems and that the wording used Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN {Barambah­ in the clause was normal. Premier) (9.19 p.m.): All the Agent-General's moneys are not subject to the Treasury as However, the explanatory notes on clause such, whereas in other areas moneys are 24 distinctly state that this clause is wholly subject to the Treasury. That is the dif­ designed to empower the Treasury to approve ference in that regard. 2572 Financial Administration [22 MARCH 1977] and Audit Bill

Clause 32, as read, agreed to. The amendment introduces no new principle. It merely clarifies that the provision applies Clauses 33 and 34, as read, agreed to. to the accountable officer in his role as Clause 35-Accountable officers- accountable officer and not in his role as permanent head. Hon. J. .BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ Premier) (9.10 p.m.): I move the following Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed amendment:- to. "On page 19, omit all words comprising Mr. .BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the lines 7 to 12 both inclusive and insert Opposition) (9.13 p.m.): Clause 36, dealing in lieu thereof the following words:- with the functions and duties of the account­ '(2) In the case of- able officer, seems to be the area where (a) a sub-department, branch or sec­ we should be spelling out quite clearly the tion of a department that keeps guide-lines of departmental internal auditing. separate departmental accounts One of the problems I see in the Bill is that subsidiary to the public the Government seems to be looking at accounts; only income and expenditure, and as long as they balance, all is assumed to be (b) a Crown corporation or instru­ O.K. We still do not get around mentality or a statutory corpor­ to trying to find out whether we are ation or instrumentality repre­ getting value for money. If the legislation senting the Crown the expen­ covering audit is being changed, this is one diture of which is subject to of the areas we ought to be looking at. This appropriation by Parliament, is the argument we put up about the Queens­ the Treasurer shall appoint an officer land Performing Arts Trust. Originally we thereof to be the accountable officer were told that the cost of the Culturai with respect to the appropriations for Complex would be $47,000,000; now we are those services under the control told it will be $94,000,000. It seems to be thereof.'" an open-ended commitment. Commitments Again, this amendment is a consequence are open ended in a lot of areas. of the passing of the Electricity Act Mr. Moore: Another Opera House. 197 6. This empowers the Treasurer to appoint the State Electricity Commissioner to be the accountable officer with respect to Mr. BURNS: That may be so. There are the appropriations for those services under a lot of areas where we start off with a small the control of the State Electricity Commis­ amount of money but we seem to end up sion. Further, it empowers the Treasurer to being committed to a large amount of money. appoint an officer of any Crown corporation This can happen in departments just as or instrumentality or a statutory corporation easily as it can happen with opera houses or instrumentality representing the Crown, and in other areas. In the clause dealing rhe expenditure of which is subject to par­ with the functions and duties of the account­ liamentary appropriation. able officer, some·hin;; should be provided whereby it should be possible to show Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed whether we are getting value for money to. spent in the department itself. We should Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah not he looking only to check that it is paid -Premier) (9.11 p.m.): I move the following according to the docket or the appropriation. further amendment:- .we .are missing a great oppontunity in "On page 19, line 18, omit the words­ this Bill. When we introduce a Bill to 'relating to' change an Act after lOO years, we are pre­ and insert in lieu thereof the words- sented with a great opportunity to put in 'for those services under the control checks and balances to ensure that we do not of'." experience in the future any of the past The amendment provides for an alteration in problems in keeping check on the money drafting in order to make the meaning clear. we spend. Subclause 36 (1) (d) provides It does not introduce any new principle. that every accountable officer "shall ensure that procedures within the department and Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed internal checks afford at all times adequate to. safeguards with respect to-". Guide-lines Clause 35, as amended, agreed to. should have been provided there as to value Clause 36-Functions and duties of for money expended, but no rules are stip­ accountable officer- ulated for internal checks. Subclause 36 (1) (e) provides that every accountable officer Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah "shall review regularly fees and charges for -Premier) (9.12 p.m.): I move the following services rendered by the department having :~mendment:- regard to the cost of providing those ser­ "On page 20, line 17, omit the words­ vices;". Once it is decided that the services 'permanent head' are ·too dear or too cheap, What happens? Do we have a report throut:rh the Auditor­ and insert in lieu thereof the words­ General to us or to the Minister alone? 'acoountable officer'." Why should not members of Parliament be Financial Administration (22 MARCH 1977) and Audit Bill 2573 given a copy of a report by any accountable Again this amendment is consequent upon officer who has checked the fees of a depart­ the passage of the Electricity Act 1976. ment and said that 'they are too high or too Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed low so that they may be aware of the finan­ to. cial ramifications of the department? Clause 36, as amended, agreed to. Mr. Mom:e: We would not have time to Clause 37-Departmental appropriation read it accounts-

!VIr. BURNS: Honourable members who Hon. :J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah want to find out reasons for increasing stamp -Premier) (9.20 p.m.): 1 move the following duty and other charges, and why pen­ amendment:- sioners are charged a $5 licence fee when ''On page 21, insert after line 19 the registering their cars should surely be able following words:- to see reports on such matters that are pro­ '(d) all expenditure authorized by the duced by an accountable officer and given Governor in Council to be charged to the Minis,ter. They should be brought to a stores suspense account or a to Parliament so that we may be aware of special suspense account of the Loan them. Fund;'." This amendment makes it clear that all Mr. Casey: We could have a Joint Par­ expenditure made by the several departments liamentary Accounts Committee. from the publics accounts, including the expenditure made and charged to the stores Mr. BURNS: At both the introductory suspense account or a special suspense and second-reading stages we proposed a account of the Loan Fund, is required to be Joint Parliamentary Accounts Committee. It indicated in the departmental appropriation is well known that Queensland is one of the accounts. This cures an omission in the Bill two States in the nation rha,t does not have as presented to the Parliament. such a committee. Value for money is what people want from Governments today. It is Amem!ment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed too easy to say, "Everything is O.K. We to. have spent money according to the approp­ Clause 37, as amended, agreed to. riation and have receipts for all money spent." In this and other provisions in the Clauses 38 and 39, as read, agreed to. Bill we should have provided a value-for­ Clause 40-Transmission of certain depart- money requirement. mental trading accounts and balance sheets to Auditor-General- Hmt. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN {Barambah -Premier) (9.18 p.m.): Generally, respons­ Mr. I:H~.:R~S (Lytton-Le

department to lay down the set of accounting decisions are made and have to be made pnnciples or procedures under which he pre­ quickly on the short-term market. The pares the accounts or the transmissions. We Treasurer, whoever he is, must have con­ ought to be able to lay down how we want siderable trust placed in him and has to them to be done so that I can look at live up to that trust, which he does. This activities of the Railway Department or any is the system under which we work and to of our other business activities and me it has always appeared to be satisfactory. compare one year with another in the full Clause 41, as read, agreed to, knowledge that it is a simple system. Isn't that what reports are all about-to make Clauses 42 to 48, both inclusive, as read, members of the Parliament and those people agreed to. who are involved in trying to check the Clause 49-Auditor-Genera! not subject to accountability of these departments fully Public Service Act- aware of the principles under which we are operating? Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah -Premier) (9.26 p.m.): I move the follow­ I see no reason why we should leave it ing amendment:- to the person concerned to prepare a set of ·•on page 26, line 43, omit the expres­ principles and then add to the report each sion- time, "I have changed the principles from last year and these are the new principles '1973' under which I am operating." I think it would and insert in lieu thereof the expression- be far better if we prepared our own and we '1976'." had a standard set of ptinciples. The short title of the Public Service Act was amended to read the "Public Service Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Act 1922-1976" by the Electricity Act, which -Premier) (9.23 p.m.): The answer is that was passed by the House after the introduc­ there are so many different accounts and so tion of the Financial Administration and many different circumstances in relation to Audit Bill. That is why we need to pass the accounts that it is not practicable to this slight amendment. establish guide-lines right across the board Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed and in every case. A wide variety of different to. circumstances affects different accounts. Clause 40, as read, agreed to. Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Clause 41---Power of Treasurer to invest -Premier) (9.27 p.m.): I move the follow­ moneys- ing further amendment:- "On page 27, line 4, omit the expres­ Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the sion- Opposition) (9.24 p.m.): I am worried about '1973' the extension of po_wers given to the and insert in lieu thereof the expression- Treasurer under this clause. Very wide '1976'." powers are given for the investment of moneys at the sole discretion of the Treasurer. Amendment agreed to. Surely we should carry out a careful and Clause 49, as amended, agreed to. extensive review of these powers, especially Clause 50-Rights of officers preserved- in terms of subclause (2) (d), "in such other securities as -the Treasurer thinks fit." Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah We must carry out a review. We do not -Premier) (9.28 p.m.): I move the follow­ want the Treasurer just speculating and ing amendment:- losing. I know that the Premier and I sit on a particular trust together and we receive "On page 27, line 9, omit the expres­ advice from experts; but I do not like the sion- extension of powers to the Treasurer alone. '1973' I continue to argue that Parliament itself­ and insert in lieu thereof the expression- and, through the Parliament, members of '1976'." Parliament-should be involved. In all these As I said earlier, the short title of the areas I would rather see a provision that Public Service Act was amended by the makes it obligatory on the Treasurer, once he Electricity Act. had made certain decisions, to refer the Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed recommendations to some other source. In to. this case I would be prepared to agree to its going to the Cabinet or the Governor in Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Baramb;;h Council. However, I do not like the extension -Premier) (9.29 p.m.): I move the follow­ of power to the Treasurer alone. ing further amendment:- "On page 27, lines 10 and ll, omit the Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah -Premier) (9.25 p.m.): So often and in expression- such haste is the Treasury called upon to '1975' make decisions on investments that it would wherever occurring and insert in lieu be comp'etely impracticable to bring them thereof in each case the expression­ to the Governor in Council, Cabinet or '1976'." another group of men. From day to day Amendment agreed to. Financial Administration (22 MARCH 1977] and Audit Bill 2575

Clause 50. as amended, agreed to. Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the Opposition) (9.32 p.m.): In clause 53 we Clause~ .' l to 54, both inclusive, as read, agreed spell out that- "(a) if he directly or indirectly engages in Clause '5-Declaration by Auditor- any paid employment outside the Geneml- duties of his office or any other office to which he is appointed by virtue Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the of his office as Auditor-General or Opposition) (9.30 p.m.): This clause deals in any trade or business except as a with a declaration by the Auditor-General. member of a body corporate con­ This seems to me to be one of those areas sisting of more than 20 persons;" in which the Government discriminates against public servants. I believe that if the he shall be deemed to have vacated his Auditor-General, who is to audit the appro­ office. It is passing strange that this is priations and decisions made by the Execu­ required of the man who merely audits the rive Council and by Ministers themselves, is accounts. It is unfair that this requirement to be required to make such a declaration, should be placed on the Auditor-General a simi.Jar declaration should be made by whilst those who are making the appro­ Ministers. The public servant who is going priations and spending the money are not to audit these accounts is told, "You will required to meet the same standards. have to make a declaration and teH us the amount of money that you have invested Clause 55, as read, agreed to. in various companies. You have to tell Clause 56-Deputy Auditor-General- us the actions that you have taken to earn a little extra money on the side through shares and other activities." But at the same Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ time we as a Parliament have never been Premier) (9.33 p.m.): I move the following prepared to say that Ministers should do further amendment:- likewise. I think an amendment should "On page 28, line 32, omit the expres­ be moved to the effect that a similar declar­ sion- ation be made by each member of the '1973' Executive Council before taking up his office. and insert in lieu thereof the expression­ If it is good enough to ask the Auditor­ Genera.] to make such a declaration, it is '1976'." good enough for me to suggest that Ministers Amendment agreed to. also make such a declaration. I therefore suggest that the Committee might consider the following amendment:- Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ Premier) (9.33 p.m.): I move the following "On page 28, 'line 14, add the following further amendment:- words:- "On page 28, line 36, omit the expres­ 'and each member of the Executive sion- Council shall also make a similar declaration in the prescribed form '1973' before assuming such office.' " and insert in lieu thereof the expression­ '1976'." Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ Amendment agreed to. Premier) (9.31 p.m.): The Auditor-General does have to make such a declaration just as Ministers make a declaration when they Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ are sworn in. Ministers swear to administer Premier) (9.33 p.m.): their duties and offices faithfully and trust­ I move the following further amendment:­ worthily. "On page 28, lines 36 and 37, omit the expression- Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the '1975' Opposition) (9.31 p.m.): Is it only a declar­ ation that he will carry out his duties faith­ wherever occurring and insert in lieu fully or is it a deolaration that he will be thereof in each case the expression­ involved in no other financial activities '1976'." except those concerned in his office as Amendment agreed to. Auditor-General? Does he have to make any declaration in relation to his own out­ side financial activities, or does he only Hon. J. BJEI.KE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ declare that he wiJ.l discharge his duties Premier) (9.34 p.m.): I move the following faithfully? further amendment:- "On page 28, line 42, omit the Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ expression- Premier) (9.32 p.m.): I take it that he declares '1973' that he will discharge his duties faithfully and within the requirements of the law. I and insert in lieu thereof the expression­ think that is all that we could expect of '1976'." anyone. Amendment agreed to. 2576 Financial Administration [22 MARCH 1977] and Audit Bill

Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Pete:rsen) agreed -Premier) (9.35 p.m.): I move the following to. further amendment:- Clause 60, as amended, agreed to. " On page 28, lines 43 and 44, omit the expression- Clause 61-Audit of the public accounts- '1975' Mr. BURNS (Lytton---"Leader of the wherever occurring and insert in lieu Opposition) (9.39 p.m.): Again the Opposition thereof in each case the expression- would like to voice its concern over the '1976'." additions to this area. They provide only for Amendment agreed to. honest spending checks, for fiscrul account­ ability, integrity, disclosure and compliance Clause 56, as amended, agreed to. with applicable la,ws and regulations. There is no managerial accountability and the Clause 57-Audit of the public accounts clause is not concerned with efficiency and and departmental accounts- the economic use of personnel and other resources. In Queensland these areas are Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (9.36 p.m.): Again vaguely covered by the Public Service Board. I just seek a little information from the There is no programme accountability con­ Premier in relation to rhe method of carrying cerned with benefits being attained and out these audits. Does the Auditor-General programme objectives being achieved. have a system such as that operating in the banks in that there is no regular time for Both of these two functions have been the carrying out of an audit? Does the performed by the Auditor-General in ~the Auditor-General just ring t:p and say, "Get United States of America since 1921-for everything ready" and that is it? With this 56 years-and I ask when we will have the internal audit system that is intended within obvious benefits of that sys.tem. Now is the department I believe it would be far an opportunity for the Government to better if we had a snap check done by the implement such changes on value for money, Auditor-General whereby all of a sudden in but it has blown it. I rise to express the walks an officer from the Department of Opposition's concern that nothing has been the Auditor-General and says to the account­ done in that respect. able officer, "Produce the books of the Clause 61, as read, agreed to. department and let us go straight ahead with our audit." If the system is going to worrk Clauses 62 to 65, both inclusive, as read, as is intended, I think this would be an agreed to. excellent thing to incorporate in the frame­ Clause 66-Power to administer and work of the Bill. I do not think it presently examine on oath- exists but it is a system which the banks use and which works well. Mr. CASEY (Mackay) {9.41 p.m.): Again I seek information from the Premier. The clause empowers the Auditor-General to Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah examine persons on oath. I wish to know -Premier) (9.37 p.m.): The Auditor-General whether this provision was included in the informs me that this is just what is done. existing Act. Spot checks are made at any time. There is no set time; the Auditor-General exercises his It seems rather an extraordinary power, discretion. Should it be considered that a but, from my reading of Audi,tor-General's spot check is necessarry, that is what happens. repo11ts, I am sure that, if it has been used, it has been used with great discretion. I do Clause 57, as read, agreed to. not think that there is any intention that the Auditor-General should take over the Clauses 58 and 59, as read, agreed to. responsibilities of the courts or the police in carrying out inves,tigations. It is simply to Clause 60-Audit of accounts of Depart- ment of the Auditor-General- ensure that he gets the information. Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah Mr. Bjelke-Petersen: That power has -Premier) (9.38 p.m.): I move the following always been there. amendment:- Mr. CASEY: Thank you. " On page 30, insert after line 7 the following paragraph- Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the Op­ 'A person who performs an audit in position) (9.42 p.m.): Surely a penalty of accordance with this subsection shall be $500 is really a laugh. The imposition of a entitled to receive in respect of such substantial monetary penalty, possibly with audit such fee as is determined by the imprisonment, seems to me to be the only Treasurer.' " way of ensuring that the request of the Auditor-General to appear is complied with. The amendment provides for the person who The clause says- performs the audit of the accounts of the "The Auditor-General may examine on Department of the Auditor-General to be oath (which oath he is empowered 110 paid such audit fee as is determined by the administer) all persons whom he thinks fit Treasure:r. to examine respecting matters and things Financial Administration [22 MARCH 1977] and Audit Bill 2577

of any kind necessary for the due exercise and things that come to their lo10wledge in of the powers and authorities and 'the due the exercise or performance of their performance of the functions and duties powers, authorities, functions or duties conferred or imposed upon him by this under this Act and shall not communicate, Act or any other Act or law." save in such exercise or performance, to It then provides that a person who refuses any person any such matter or thing." to come before the Auditor-General may be believe that this clause should be so fined $500. drafted as to ensure that the Auditor­ I do not believe that the Audi,tor-General General is not barred at any time from would bring anyone before him and examine reporting abuses to Parliament The clause him on oath other than on a very important could be very much a restriction on what matter. In these circumstances, a simple way I believe to be true, open government and for a person to avoid doing so is to pay a proper reporting by the Auditor-General if $500 fine. The Auditor-General is then in Governments stifle the Auditor-General from the position of having to try to prove his revealing abuses and informing the people. case without putting questions to that man He must not be gagged. In essence I am under oath. Isn't that really what i-t is all asking if that clause is written in such a way about? I suggest that the Auditor-General that it does not provide gag on the probably is looking at big money if he brings Auditor-General's reporting IllS on any a person before him to answer questions abuses. under oath, and $500 seems to be small change. Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah -Premier) (9.46 p.m.): I could not imagine Mr. Moore: The only way 'to get over it any circumstances where it could be thought would be to order him along several times or inferred that this clause would be a gag and fine him $500 each time he refuses to on the Auditor-General. One of the very come. special privileges that are granted to an Mr. BURNS: I suppose that could be Auditor-General is the right to expose a mat­ done, but it seems 'to me that there ought ter or take whatever action is necessary. Of to be some threat in 'the clause. In days course, in his work he must obviously come gone by, a person who did not pay main­ across many aspects about which there is tenance to his wife was put into goal for a necessity to remain secretive. That is what some time. Here a person who refuses to the clause applies to; it is not an attempt to attend to undergo examination under oath gag him at all. by the Auditor-General is liable to a fine of only $500. In my opinion, many people Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the today are fined $500 for far less serious Opposition) (9.47 p.m.): I have no objection offences. to the idea that he has to maintain secrecy and ensure that certain matters that come Hon. J. BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah to his notice are not made known to the -Premier) (9.43 p.m.): I have just ascertained general public. The same sort of question from the Auditor-General that he has never comes up in regard to clause 70 which had to question anyone under oath, and he states- does not recall any previous Auditor-General "Observations and suggestions so made in this State having to exercise this power that, in the opinion of the Auditor-General and authority. The mere fact that someone are of major significance shall be for­ is likely to be called before the Auditor­ warded also to the Treasurer and the General to explain his actions would in Minister concerned." itself be a fairly strong deterrent. I do not Again I believe that they should come to know whether the fine would carry any sub­ the Parliament. The Auditor-General should stantial weight. be required not to pass these matters on to Mr. Burns: People do abscond with large the Treasurer or the Minister concerned but sums of money. to say in his report to Parliament, "I have recommended to the Minister for Trans­ !VIr. BJELKE-PETERSEN: That is true, port"-or some other Minister-"that certain but in such cases the police take action. The actions be taken in relation to the audit or Auditor-General does not use this power handling of accounts in his particular depart­ very often. In fact, it certainly has not ment." In that way we would be aware of been done, to our knowledge, in our time. the changes being made or the actions being taken by the Auditor-GeneraL Clause 66, as read, agreed to. Clauses 67 and 68, as read, agreed to. Clause 69, as read, agreed to. Clause 69-Secrecy- Clauses 70 and 71, as read, agreed to. Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the Oppo­ Clause 72-Auditor-General may obtain sition) (9.44 p.m.): I wish to raise only one opinion- point. The clause says- Mr. BURNS (Lytton-Leader of the 'The Auditor-General and every author­ Opposition) (9.48 p.m.): This clause should ised officer shall preserve and aid in pre­ act on the same principle in covering the serving secrecy with respect to all matters relat:onship of the Auditor-General to the 2578 Fire Brigades Act (22 MARCH 1977] Amendment Bill

Solicitm-General. It ought to empower the operation on several occasions. The Act pro­ Auditor-{.J-eneral to refer direct to the Crown vides that fire brigades boards support the Law Office and the police, not through any superannuation scheme approved by the Gov­ Ministers, matters of a criminal nature which ernor in Council. warrant vmsecution. What I am suggesting The scheme is presently administered by is that, if the Auditor-General found matters three trustees, that is, the chairman and sec­ of a criminal nature in his audit, he should retary of the Metropolitan Fire Brigades be able to take them straight to the police Board and the chairman of the State Fire himself rather than go through the Minister. Services Council. Representations have been Tha~ v;,ould remove any suggestion of made for country fire brigades boards to political control or political manipulation be represented as trustees and for con­ over both the office of the Auditor-General tributors to be re presented other than by the and the office of the Solicitor-General with secretary of the Metropolitan Fire Brigades regard to the abuses uncovered by the Board. Auditor--General and the prosecution for any In view of the difficulties in amending the possible criminal offences that may have trust deed covering the scheme because of occurred. There is always the suggestion the need for, and the time required to obtain, that so-and-so was breaking the law but the the consent of each board participating in Minister or someone in authority got him the scheme, the Bill proposes that there will out of iL The Bill should be drafted in such be five trustees appointed by the Governor a way that that sort of suggestion could not in Council. The chairman of the State Fire be made. ]t should provide for the Auditor­ Services Council and of the metropolitan General io report direct to the police if he board will continue to be trustees, with the sees someone acting in a criminal way. former being chairman. In addition, the Queensland Country Fire Brigades Boards HoJIJI. JJ • .BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah­ Union of Employers will be given the oppor­ Premier) (9.49 p.m.): The Auditor-General tunity to nominate the chairman of a country indicates dearly to me that if there is any­ fire brigade board. Two further trustees are thing of a criminal nature that comes before to be nominated by the Minister from a him he reports immediately to the police. panel of names submitted by each industrial union covering fire brigade employees Clause 72., as read, agreed to. throughout the State. The new trustees will Clauses 73 to 83, both inclusive, as read, hold office for three years. agreed to. Provision is made to fill casual vacancies Schedule- and the action to be taken if an industrial union fails to make a nomination. Trustees' Holll. JJ., BJELKE-PETERSEN (Barambah powers and duties are also laid down. -Premier) (9.50 p.m.): I move the following anlendment:- Provision is being made for the Minister to appoint deputy members of the State Fire "On page 38, line 10, omit the expres- Services Council who will attend during the sion- absence of regular members. 'Section 8' The Act was amended in 1976 to provide and insert in lieu thereof the expression­ that the State Fire Services Council is deemed 'Part III (ss. 7, 8) and the heading to be a fire brigade employer and a party to thereto'." industrial proceedings to the exclusion of fire This is an amendment to the drafting; it does brigade boards where the council forms the not introduce any new principles. opinion that an industrial cause has arisen which affects, or is likely to affect, more than Amendment (Mr. Bjelke-Petersen) agreed one board. This followed a similar system in to. the ambulance services and resulted from the Schedule, as amended, agreed to. fact that one section of the fire brigades service could commit another section to a Bill reported, with amendments. variation of award conditions virtually with­ out consultation and by a simple follow-on procedure. The Government now acknow­ FIRE BRIGADES ACT AMENDMENT ledges representations by the Metropolitan BILL Fire Brigades Board and the Queensland Country Fire Brigades Boards Union of INITIATION IN COMMITTEE Employers in relation to their exclusion from (Mr. Row, Hinchinbrook, in the chair) proceedings. Consequently, the role of the council is being changed to one of inter­ Holll. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minister vention in industrial proceedings which affect for Industrial Development, Labour Rela­ or are likely to affect a fire brigade board, tions and Consumer Affairs) (9.52 p.m.): I and for the council to be then deemed to be move- a party to the proceedings. "That a Bill be introduced to amend the A machinery amendment is also proposed Fire Brigades Act 1964-1976 in certain to bring provisions relating to returns to the particulars." State Fire Services Council by owners of Amendments to the Fire Brigades Act have pro~erty or the relevant insurance company become necessary or desirable for efficient in respect of risks within fire brigade districts Fire Brigades Act [22 MARCH 1977] Amendment Bill 2579 which are not insured with a contributory wooden material and that have watch-houses company into line with those applicable to attached to them. Mention of s:uch buildin11s Queensland companies as from 1 January has been made in the media. I believe tli~t 1978. those buildings are dangerous potential fire All fire brigade boards are concerned with hazards because of the type of material thev the number of false alarms caused to a large are constructed of and I know that the Polic~ degree by faulty equipment or the careless Union has recently commented on them. use of equipment. The Bill will make pro­ About the middle of last year the chief vision for charges to be fixed by regulation, oflicer in Brisbane said that he believed not only with respect to fire brigade attend­ that Brisbane was sitting on a fire bomb ance at fires on uninsured property but also and he elaborated why. He said that the for brigade attendance at any property in old buildings in the metropolitan area were response to calls arising from activation of not covered by the legislation introduced fire alarm systems where a fire has not last year. occurred. A further serious problem i.s the number This is a Bill which I commend to the of school fires. Recently the Minister for Committee and on which I anticipate support Works and Housing made a statement from all honourable members. through the media that some $300,000 a year was the overall cost of fires in school Mr. YEWDALE (Rockhampton North) buildings. Fires of this nature are very (9.57 p.m.): The Opposition considers at difficult to prevent, particularly if they are the outset that that part of the measure lit with some deliberate intent. It would presented by the Minister which deals with seem to me that many of them are the the superannuation fund is only in line with result of accidents or are not caused by what has been happening in many other design. As I have said in this Chamber industries and many other facets of public before, a greater use of school facilities out­ operations. side school hours and over holiday periods as well as a better lighting system in and As to the aspect of the representation of around school buildings could be an increased industrial unions, though it probably leaves form of insurance against this type of damage. room for some argument as to those who are justifiably entitled to be included in that Another problem in the metropolitan area category, while two organisations are currently is the practice adopted when vessels enter the port. I am advised that there is not functioning within the industry it would seem enough communication between this section that a decision has to be made on that basis. of industry and the fire services concerning In his introductory remarks, the Minister vessels carrying flammable cargo or cargo mentioned that the measure would help to that could be considered to be dangerous. improve the efficient operation of fire services One incident related to me concerned the in Queensland. In view of the fact that this ability of the chief officer in Brisbane to is an introductory debate-the Bill has not overcome a serious situation only because been printed of course-I will make a few somebody had the sense to advise him of comments on and observations about the it. Apparently there is a need to tidy up efficient operation of fire services in Queens­ this aspect of fire protection in the metro­ land. politan area. The provision outlined by the Minister I personally feel that the personnel of the regarding the requirement of property owners State Fire Services Council ought to be or companies that have not been covered altered. I do not intend this suggestion to by insurance and the risks that are involved be in any way derogatory of those persons is a good move. as individuals. However, I firmly believe that those who currently hold appointment on I reserve the right to make further com­ that council are predominantly people who ment on all aspects of the Bill when it is have not worked in the industry and have printed. not been actively involved in fire-fighting or fire services as such. I know that a couple Horn. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley­ of the personnel have to some extent, but the Minister for Industrial Development, Labour others have not. I feel the time is long over­ Relations and Consumer Affairs) (10.3 p.m.), due when responsible people should look at in reply: The honourable member referred to what he believes is a lack of expert the complement of the board and endeavour advice on the State Fire Services Council. to place on it people who have had reason­ When he looks at the composition of the able experience in the industry, either as council he will find that it is not lacking part of the fire-fighting services in this State in expert advice on fire-fighting or any other or as officers or fire brigade chiefs who have aspects. personally had practical experience. The honourable member referred to the I would like to mention a couple of other remarks of the fire chief that as yet old matters relating to fire services in Queens­ buildings are not covered by the recent land. although at this late hour I do not want amendment to the Fire Safety Act. I explained to go into too much detail. However, T refer it quite clearly when that Bill was introduced. briefly to a number of police stations throug-h­ I will simp1y say that. from my investigations out Queensland that are constructed of overseas and also in Australia, our Fire 2580 Fire Brigade Charges [22 MARCH 1977] Refund Bill

Safety Aci is without peer in Australia and F;re Services Council will not be able until ranks verj highly compared with similar late in May this year to fix the percentage precautions overseas. of the fire brigade contribution in relation Motion (Mr. Campbell) agreed to. to insurance company premiums to enable the companies to calculate the levies. Rcsolstion reported. Provision is made that if the insurance is cancelled before the expiry date, the refund FIRST READING will be pro rata to the period the insurance Bill me;,ented and, on motion of Mr. is in force. Campbe~ll, read a first time. ln order to provide the funds from which refunds wiH be made, the liability is placed on fire insurance companies and owners FIRE BRIGADE CHARGES REFUND of property to pay to the State Fire Ser­ BILL vices Council during 1977-78 an additional iNITIATION IN CoMMITTEE contribution of 10 per cent of the pro­ visional amount assessed as the normal con­ C\fr. l'v1iller, lthaca, in the chair) tribution to fire brigades. "Owners of pro­ Hon. l:r. A. CAiVI:PBELL (Aspley-Minister perty" are persons who insure with companies for industrial Development, Labour Relations outside Queensland or any organisation which and Consumer Affairs) (10.5 p.m.): I move- is a self-insurer. It does not prevent a "That a Bill be introduced to provide for company from making a contribution on the refund to policy-holders of certain fire behalf of the owner. The Bill provides for brigade charges and for matters incidental the establishment at the Treasury of a therew." soecial fund into which the contributions As honourable members are aware, the Fire \Vil! be paid, and also for insurance com­ Brigades Act was amended last year to panies to make an extra contribution if the provide that contributions by fire insurance fund is in debit at its closure or to receive companies towards the operation of fire bri­ a credit of any balance against normal con­ ::ac\es wouid be based on insured risks in tributions for fire brigade purposes after fire brigade districts from July 1978. This claims have been paid. Provision is made wa; !o give insurers the opportunity to remove for penalties on persons who obtain refunds fire brigade levies from premiums paid by as a result of false claims. poiic' -holders outside fire brigade districts. Honourable members will agree that this it bad been administratively impracticable legislation corrects a most serious injustice. to a•T;e:cd lhe basis on which insurance con­ By formulating legislation which will speed tributions were calculated earlier than July redress 12 months earlier than would other­ 1978 becau;,e of the need to prepare new, wise have been administratively possible, the detailed fire brigade district maps and the Government is demonstrating both awareness introduction of a new statistical system from and acceptance of responsibility. Government July 1977. policy, of course, has consistently been and Although the legislative amendment recog­ will always be directed towards the removal nised the inequity of the fire brigade levy, of anomalies, and in my view this measure particularly where a service could not be is an excellent example. provided, the Government has been con­ cerned about the length of lead time to give Finally, I wish to refer to a report in relief to policy-holders outside fire brigade yesterday's "Australian" purporting to convey districts. The Government has therefore the contents and purposes of this Bill. It decided to introduce this stopgap measure contains so many glaring inaccuracies, par­ to cover the 12 months' period from 1 July ticularly on the effect on fire insurance 1977. companies and their clients, that companies may wish to issue a correcting statement. I Under this Bill, policy-holders with insured certainly hope they do, for it is quite risks outside fire brigade districts wiH be important that the contents of this measure entitled to a refund of a prescribed portion be widely and accurately known. It does not, of the fire insurance premiums falling due in the year 1977-78. Application for the for example. entitle policy-holders to obtain, refund is to be made to the State Fire as the article suggested, "full refunds retro­ Services Council on a form that wHI be spective to when their policies were taken prescribed by regulation. The refund will out." not apply to motor vehicle policies. As I said earlier, policy-holders with The Bill also provides that if a policy­ insured risks outside fire brigade districts will holder is levied by, and pays a fire brigade be entitled to a refund of a subscribed portion charge to. an insurance company greater of fire insurance premiums falling due in than the refund to which he is entitled from 1977-78, and at the risk of repeating myself the State Fire Services Council, the insurance ad nauseam, this stopgap Bill takes effect company will be required to pay the dif­ from 1 July this year and will operate for ference to the policy-holder. Because of one year, and neither it, nor the Fire Brigade the different methods used by companies in Act that I brought down last year and that fixing the amount of the fire brigade levy, will apply from 1 July 1978, confers any it has not been possible to indicate an retrospectivity. I commend the Bill to the exact percentage of the refund. The State Committee. Fire Brigade Charges [22 MARCH 1977] Refund Bill 2581

Mr. YEWDALE (Rockhampton North) to each other in the middle of bushland and ( l 0.13 p.m.): I feel it appropnate that my scrub land, and in very dry seasons fire is opening remark to the the Minister is, "Better likely to destroy them. late than never." In saying that I believe the The converse applies in northern areas, s..:me would be said by the people who are where people pay higher insurance prem­ gain;; to benefit from this decision and will iums in order to be protected against severe r2:eive th~ benefit 12 months earlier than wet weather and storm and tempest. Because they thought. of the conditions existing there, the risk of I recall clc.:trly that the la:;t tinle this fire damage to premises of insured persons is less. In my opinion, the existing set-up malter was raised in the i\•;sembly a de~ision was made not to levy this charge on country handicaps people living on the coastal belt in people ho were not receiving a service North Queensland, which is prone to cyclones. Storm and tempe~t rates there are from fire-fighting facilities. I recall raising up to 'three times higher than those being this matter in the Assembly and using the paid on similar houses in the Brisbane met­ analogy of people in country areas who pay ropolitan area. iacome tax but do not receive health services. They should not have to pay that tax, and I In many instances the high percentage still think that is a fairly valid argument. of fire brigade levy on very high storm and tempest premiums is the straw that breaks The Minister said that this decision has the camel's back. For example, pensioners tu~n brought forward because the charge are unable to afford the premiums and was an injustice. The Opposilion agrees that many of them are allowing their policies to tnis measure is certainly welcome and accept­ lapse. This could be detrimental to them able and I am sure people in country areas if a major cyclone occurs, because most of would agree. them are living in older houses in which There is one point that I presume applies they have lived all their lives. They simply to this measure and that is that during 1976 cannot afford to meet the high insurance t:le media reported that the amendment to premiums that are now being foisted upolil the Act would not preclude the fire brigade them, and it is anomalous that these prem­ boards from attending fires outside gazetted iums are being increased by the fire brigade tire brigade districts and would provide for levy, which is a straight-out percentage not a ('harne to be made rather than the payment of the initial premium but of the existing of a fire brigade levy. I presume that that high storm and tempest premium. Because still applies and personally I see no reason of the wet conditions in the North, houses why it s:1ould not. I repeat that the Oppositi­ must be less susceptible to fire, and I ask tion has no objection to this measure and that the Minister look again at this par­ we are pleased to see that it has been intro­ ticular problem when we are endeavouring duc,~d some 12 months ahead of time. to remove anomalies confronting other sec­ tions of 'the community. Mr. CASEY (Mackay} (10.15 p.m.): Mr. MULLER (Fassifern) (10.19 p.m.): Although I have raised this point with the As a representative of a rural area, I have Minister before, I wish again to remind 'him been concerned for some considerable time of it. We are now talking about adjustments about the fire brigade levy. Naturally, I am to fire brigade levies and refunds that may interested in what the Minister is attempting be granted by the Government or by the to do, and I believe that the proposal he has insurance companies concerned, and I again put forward certainly has been put forward draw to the Minister's attention the inequality in good faith. However, quite frankly, I and anomalies that exist relative to fire am a little bit concerned about its practical brigade levies paid by people in the cyclone application in the final analysis. areas of North Queensland who pay through As I see it, persons in country areas, the nose for storm and tempest protection. because of their vocations, are at special Where premiums for normal household risk because they are not being served with insurance are very high, the fire brigade an adequate wa,ter supply. This has been levy is, of course, a direct percentage of appreciated over quite a long period by those higher premiums. This means that insurance companies. I am appealing to .the people in the tropical cyclone areas are pay­ Minister for some guidance at this stage, but ing for fire protection far more than are I think that whatever decision is made in people in, say, the dry western areas of the giving relief to these people, the leeway could State that are subject to very hot conditions well be taken up by the insurance companies. or in the urban area of Brisbane where con­ I fear that as they accept 'the risk involved di·t;ons are far drier than they are in the in these circumstances they will increase the North and people are building on hillsides general premium. that are subject to fires. In recent years, It has been suggested by the Minister that some of the worst fire damage to houses in a special levy will be imposed for the first Australia has occurred in the metropolitan 12 months. What concerns me is that we areas of Sydney and Melbourne, and I appear to be attempting to grant immediate believe that in future years a similar problem relief for those unfortunate people but the will occur in some of the suburban areas of practical application of the Bil:l indicates to Brisbane. People are building houses close me that we are going to impose a 10 per 2582 Fire Brigade Charges [22 MARCH 1977] Refund Bill cent increase on their pTesent levy in order its problems, but Vve are aiming at a very to build up a fund, which in time will be realistic goal. The past system whereby fire refunded to those not adequately serviced brigade levies were imposed on all pol.icy­ at the moment. I must be quite fair about holders, in spite of the fact t~at they m1ght this. If I operated an insurance company and be miles away from fire serv1ces, was very wanted to run my business effectively and inequitable. efficiently I would feel I was obliged to When the full impact of these programmes increase the charges in the areas of greatest is felt the cost of fire brigade services to risk. That has been happening for yerurs. policy~holders in fire brigade districts will be Mr. Casey: Surely insurance is a covering too high. As legislators we must face the fact of the risk over all areas, not just in one that the cost of fire brigade services has area. escalated tremendously. No doubt the Min­ ister has accurate statistics, but I estimate that the cost of fire brigade services has Mr. MULLER: That is true, but from the escalated twice as fast as the C.P.I. The statement made by the Minister a few cost of fire brigade services has risen dram­ minutes ago it seems that there is going to atically. In my electorate we have been look­ be an immediate 10 per cent increase in the ing into providing new fire brigade ser_vi~es 1evy for the first 12 months. In those circum­ but, in real terms, the cost of prov1dmg stances those persons outside a fire brigade them is dramatic. area would not respond very favourably to the Minister's submission. The Minister is to be congratulated on ensuring that the Fire Services Council has Those are the only points I wish to make to recognise its responsibility for tempering at this time. I am quite certain the Minister increased costs in this area. Industrially, Vve will clarify the matter for me. In the se.cond­ have tried to bring some sanity to the escal­ reading stage after we have seen the B1ll we ation of wage costs in this industry. If the will be in a position to comment more present trend continues we will be unable to intel1igently on the legislation. afford fire brigade services. By tackling the equity provision, which wisely we have done, Mr. AHERN (Landsborough) (10.23 p.m.): we may find that the loading of the total As I understand it the Minister's proposal is cost on to the few policy-holders in a fire designed as a stop-gap measure in an brigade district will be too much. endeavour to bring some relief to policy­ holders outside of fire brigade districts before The Minister has participated in some Fed­ the 1978 phasing-in period referred to in the eral committees with the idea of approaching previous legi;llation. As I understand the the Federal Government to argue that the Minister's proposal, it is totaHy designed to cost of fire brigade services should be fin­ bring some relief in this area during the anced from Federal Consolidated Revenue or 1977-78 financial year. How it is proposed in some other way better than simply load­ to be done is that there will be a 10 per in<> the whole cost on to policy-holders cent increase in existing fire brigade levies, be~ause as a result of this legislation, from which wiU go into a pool to be supervised the start of the 1978-79 financial year the by the Fire Services Council, and to which cost will be too high. policy-holders will be able to apply for a This proposal will result in increased fire refund of their fire brigade ievy. premiums throughout the State. Any premium involving a fire brigade levy will be increased As far as I can see at this stage, for the in relation to a 10 per cent increase in the next 12 months this is a reasonable sugges­ present fire brigade levy component. That tion. As I see it, it wHl mean an increase in is to go to a pool to make refunds to policy­ premiums generally. When companies make holders who apply for a refund and are an ext

Some difficulty has been experienced in evidence, a notice requiring that person to relation to the issue of warrants and the attend at the court at which the defendant is arrest of prisoners who have escaped from to be tried. custody whilst serving sentences in respect of convictions for simple offences. The This proposal involves the repeal and difficulty arises when such prisoners are amendment of some sections of the Justices located in another State. Section 33 of the Act and the insertion of a new section to Prisons Act provides for the escaped prisoner replace the existing procedure of binding to be arrested without the issue of a warrant. over witnesses. However, in order to extradite such a pris­ oner under the Commonwealth Service of Following the insertion of this new pro­ Execution and Process Act, a warrant issued vision it is also necessary to make consequen­ by a court or justice is necessary. Section tial amendments to the Criminal Code. 59 of the Justices Act presently provides for These amendments also are contained in the the issue of warrants in the first instance but Bill. provides that no such warrant shall be issued unless under the express authority of some Difficulties have been experienced in rela­ Act in that behalf. tion to the issue of warrants for the imprison­ ment of unsuccessful appellants following Consequently there is no power to extradite the determination of appeals lodged pursuant in such cases. The proposed amendment to to section 222 of the Justices Act. At pre­ section 59 of the Justices Act will overcome sent such warrants are issued by the clerk of this problem by providing for the issue of the Magistrates Court. However, this proce­ a warrant in the first instance where, under dure results in delays. Once the court hear­ the Act whereby the offence is created, there ing the appeal is closed, the appellant is no is authority either to arrest without warrant longer in custody and instances have occur­ or to issue a warrant. red where unsuccessful appellants have dis­ appeared before they can be taken into cus­ The powers of justices conducting proceed­ tody under the authority of a warrant issued ings in Magistrates Courts is not adequate at by the clerk of the Magistrates Court. The present to prohibit the taking or publishing proposed amendment will provide for such of photographs of the court proceedings or warrants to be issued by the court which of witnesses and parties attending those pro­ heard and determined the appeal. ceedings. The Bill will provide an offence for any person who takes or publishes photo­ The very large bulk of complaints made graphs or produces pictures of those court under the Traffic Act, the Main Roads Act proceedings or of people involved in the and other Acts and the increase in the number court proceedings in relation to those pro­ of these complaints in recent years have led ceedings. to the introduction of simpler and speedier procedures to deal with such complaints be­ At present, where justices commit a per­ fore Magistrates Courts. The benefits de­ son for trial on a charge of an indictable rived from these procedures, such as the new offence, the witnesses who gave evidence at procedure permissible in the absence of a the preliminary hearing are ordered to enter defendant in certain cases as provided in into recognizances to appear at the court at section 142A of the Justices Act, have been which the defendant is to be tried. On most enormous and have resulted in a great occasions the witnesses are excused from fur­ saving in time and expense for all concerned. ther attendance at court upon the completion of their evidence and at the completion of However, some problems have arisen, par­ the preliminary hearing, if the defendant is ticularly where a small human error is made committed for trial, the witnesses are not or delays have resulted in the communication available to enter into the required recog­ of information. The result has been that on nizances conditioned for their appearance at rare occasions a person has been convicted the higher court. of a minor offence where the summons issued on the complaint has not come to his atten­ In most cases the investigating police tion, or the same person has been previously officer is required to obtain the completed convicted in respect of the same offence, or recognizances, locate the witnesses and take the conviction or order has been recorded them before a justice of the peace to enter against the wrong person. into the recognizances. This is a very time­ consuming procedure and it is proposed to At present many of these errors or mis­ abolish it and replace it with a provision takes can only be rectified by commencing pro­ whereby in the event of a committal for trial ceedings by way of certiorari in the Supreme the clerk of the court will be required to Court

commenced in respect of some minor offence. a total review of it. When we first codi­ It is therefore proposed to provide a pro­ fied our criminal law, we were praised and cedure for Magistrates Courts to reopen pro­ were said to be leading the way, but in view ceedings and rectify convictions or orders of the numerous amendments that are taking that have been wrongly recorded. place, and ,this is happening every day, it would seem that the time is coming again T'he. opportunity has been taken, whilst for a review of our Criminal Code. All amendmg the Justices Act and including in other States have not seen fit to follow our the Bill some consequential amendments to lead, but three or four have. the Criminal Code, to correct two anomalies in the Criminal Code. Such amendments are I would suggest that one area that needs included in the BilL I commend the Bill to be looked at is compensation for injury. to the Committee. We have talked here very quickly about escapees, and very often when the escapee Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (10.46 does get out he hurts someone. The Min­ p.m.}: I think we have just witnessed a very ister for Justice will well know of problems good example of the problems that face that arose at Etna Creek when two fellows members of the Opposition. A Minister of escaped and bashed a woman. Although they the Crown can rise and, in a very few were recaptured and punished, in that they moments. rattle off some 15 or 20 changes were given longer sentences, nothing was that are being proposed in legislation and given to the victim. members of the Opposition then have to rise and try to debate these changes. It may We have a system under sections 663A, B be time we suned looking again at the intro­ and C of the Criminal Code whereby compen­ ductory debate. Whilst members look upon sation may be made available to the victims this stage as an opportunity for members of of violent crime. We also have a section Parliament ,to speak about any aspect that which enables assistance to be given to those pertains to particular legislation under debate, people who have been injured whilst trying ! think all honourable members realise the to assist police officers in t'he carrying out difficulties th~:t we are placed in. of their duties. But from information given to me only this day by the Minister for lt would seem from what the Minister Just'ce and Attorney-General as to the has just said that the main issue at stake number of claims for ex gratia payment here is the issue of warrants, but he referred under this section of the Criminal Code, it also to the Criminal Code and oroblems would seem that we need a total review. confronting magistrates-in fact, he spoke The Minister po:nted out that there had been about myriad issues. In the interests of 89 claims for ex gratia payment under the getting some reasonable debate here, I sug­ Criminal Code, that 35 of ,these had been gest to the Minister that it would not be successful, 34 had been denied, 10 were difficult on apolitical issues (and I believe still under consideration and another 10 were these issues are apolitical) to give all mem­ subsequently withdrawn. He pointed out also bers some indication of what is going to that $38,025 had been paid since 1968. happen. The Minister knows that we do Actually, I think that provision came into not try to score just for the sake of politics, force on 1 January 1969 although the legis­ and whilst it is probably better for him to lation was introduced in 1968. The lowest keep everybody in the dark I do not believe amount of money paid was $200, whilst the it is in the interests of good legislation. The highest was $4,000. I am not aware of tendency is '"'F members to branch off into whether it was the present Minister for other issues .. Justice or his predecessor who increased the amount from $2,000 to $5,000 but, no matter who it was, the quantum is still I have been well aware of some of the insufficient. problems that arise because of the difficulty of extraditing prisoners from other States, I: is time that we as a State gav;; mor:~ and this has been mentioned at Attorney­ cogfii~J.n~e to the vir:tims of crime than to General level in the Federal sphere. Mr. !he criminals. The community generally is Enderby made the point a long ,time ago ',1ying, "Let's do something about victims. that the States ought to look at some sort of Let's put aside some of the rehabilitation uniform legislation to overcome the difficult­ proc;rammes." I stand condem11ed h~rc, ies. It would seem now that the Minister bec:E'Se when l first entered this Chamber in !969 my whole aim, being involved in for Justice in this State is endeavouring to the prisons portfolio, was to do something bring down legislation to overcome some about rehabilitation. It is amazing how time specific problems. balances one out, Mr. Miller, and one begins to realise that there is a real need to begin The Minister has made some comment on thinking of the victims. the numerous areas under review not only in the Justices Act 1886-1975 but also in Although we need to punish those who the Criminal Code. I believe the criticism commit crimes, and to try to rehabilitate that has been made of the Criminal Code them so that they can come back into is warranted, It would seem that we need society as worthwhile citizens and, therefore, 2586 Justices Act and the [22 MARCH 1977) Criminal Code, &c., Bill

not be a cost to the State, the real question Mr. WRIGHT: That is a valid. question. that arises now is what compensation or In the first instance. we must realise that the assistance is available to the victims. person who is hurt has to pay doctor's bills. The maximum payment is $5,000, so there Mr. Lindsay: You are reading my maiden is no reason why the victim could not be speech. given an initial payment of $500. At the moment, section 663A says that it must be Mr. WRIGHT: If ever I read the honour­ determined whether or not the criminal can able member's maiden speech in this afford to pay. This comes back to common Chamber, I would be kicked out of Parlia­ sense. Most of the people who are involved in these crimes do not own anything. They ment. His speeches are usually shockin~ do not own their own car; thev do not own contributions and they come from a membe~ their own lodgings; they have-no money in who does not know much about anything. the bank. Therefore, it is ridicdous to say that an attempt must first be made to obtain Let me come back to the point I was the money from the offender. We must say, making. It is necessary for us to look at "We know vou are the victim of a crime. the present system of compensating victims. You are an' innocent victim. Here is $500 I do not blame the Minister, who has held for you to use. We will review the position the portfolio for only a short time, but it as we go along." Surely that is a reasonable seems to me to be wrong that the total approach. lt assists the families of the victim, amount of money paid to the 35 successful in particular, by giving them some money to applicants is $38,025 when one reads in the pay medical expenses and fill the cupboard,, newspapers of civil actions by persons who I suggest that this is one area 'hat should lose an eye or an arm in which $90 000 or be looked at. $100,000 is paid for one incident. 'rn this area the average claim, taking the mean As to the points raised by the Minister, would b~ just over $1,000, the~ lowest pay: l will look at them when the Bill has ment bemg $200 and the maximum $4,000. been printed. As I have said before, on a non-political issue there is merit in cir­ So, although it is something of a turnabout culating the proposed amendments. I com­ for me from the days when I spoke in this mend the Minister for his recent interview Chamber of the need for rehabilitation, of with "Telegraph" reporters. U was rather the need to make better citizens of the fellows well done. It was not so much an ego who are involved in crime, I think we must trip as an explanation of what he was doing come back to caring for the victim. This is to combat corporate crime in this State. ln the type of speech that the honourable that interview he mentioned some aspects member for Townsville South would make. of pending legislation. If he is prepared However, I have_ ~et a number of people to do that publicly then I believe he ought who have been vrctrms of crimes. A school­ to do it within this Assembly, because that teacher friend of mine was viciously bashed. is in the interests of good legislation and He was off work for a considerable time and, good debate. because of that, he lost promotion. He had facial injuries and needed spectacles after Mr. LOWES (Brisbane) (10.56 p.m.): The the at~ack. His whole attitude to life changed. legislation proposed by the Minister covers In spite of that, after three years he still the amending of the Justices Act and the had not received any compensation. Criminal Code Act, the schedn·le to which is what we know as the Criminal Code. That raises the point that the victims of Those two Acts cover much of the criminal cnmes such as that need assistance at the law of the State. The Justices )\et is an trme of the incident, not three or four years Act of 1886. It covers minor offences and later. Th~y need it immediately after they the treatment by the Magistrates Court of have been attacked, because no income is ofl'enders, with the exception of those charged comm.; forward to pay hospital bills and to with crimes of greater gravity. They are ca!"t")' their_ through. Although the dealt with by the justices only by way ~-ife of preliminary hearing and defendants arc Mmrster sard 111 the Chamber this morning that. the procedure had been simplified where then committed to the Criminal Court. poss_rble and t~at t~e average period for pro­ The Justices Act has been amended fairly cessJ:-~_g the cla:ms rs about three months. my expenence mdrcates to me that that is not regularly because it deals with offences of completely true. If one gets in touch with a minor nature and offences which are more lawyers who have been handling these prevalent than those dealt with under the matters, who have submitted claims through Criminal Code. On the other hand, the the A_ttorney-General to the Governor in Criminal Code has been something of a Coun~tl for some type of payment, one finds sacred cow to lawyers in Queensland ever that m many cases payment has not been since it was first introduced in 1889. And made for two or three years. so it ought to be. It is the work of a fine jurist, a man of great legal stature :\1r. Lester: How do you suggest that we both in this State and in the initial feder­ get quick payments? ation of Australia. Justices Act and the [22 MARCH 1977] Criminal Code, &c., Bill 2587

In the accepted textbook on criminal law The camera has created many problems. in Queensland by His Honour Judge Carter, When we consider how it could be used and probably one of Queensland's greatest legal has been used in Brisbane courts it is obvious annotators, it is not surprising to find in that we must take steps to ensure that the the foreword written by His Honour, as stage is not reached where the use of the he then was, the Chief Justice of Queens­ land, Sir Alan Mansfie!d- camera is in fact in contempt. Recourse is then made to the provisions of the Criminal "Certain branches of the law have been Code, which call upon people with access to expressed in the form of codes with con­ sequential benefit to the community and the court to refrain from any action which, amongst the most successful of these has of itself, may amount to contempt of court. been the Queensland Criminal Code, the I refer to the use not only of cameras but product of that great jurist, Sir Samuel also of aH sorts of technical instruments that Griffith. can be used to reproduce scenes. "It is, however, incorrect to suppose I am sure that when legislation is being that anv code can remain complete for drafted it is a challenge to the draftsman to long. Cases arise from time to time when ensure that it covers every possible use of its meaning is extended and modified by equipment that may generally be referred to Judges, aDd every year produces a crop as cameras but includes every possibJ.e device of legislation, some of which affects the for the reproduction of images. That is what provision of a code. Queensland is no the draftsman will have had to do when exception .. " considering the proposed amendments to Tn additior w the changes which come prevent the improper use of cameras. about through decisions by judges and by legislation there is the change which comes The Minister proposes amending the Act about in the thinking of the community. to provide for the apprehension of appellants That, too, has its effect upon the need for who have lodged appeacls under section 222 amendment of such laws as the Criminal of the Justices Act. When a person appeals Code of Queensland. There has no doubt he may or may not be before the court. At b~en this reluctance to amend the Criminal present, assuming that he is before the court Code, and \'Jhen it has been found neces­ and that the court having heard his appeal sary to do so it has been the result of dismisses it, he is not then in custody of the a change in thinking in the community. court. The court having dismissed the appeal, the appeUant is free. I am informed that on [ refer pa:iicu!arly to the law of diminished some occasions appeUants have immediately responsibilit), "hich comes from the accep­ quit the court precincts. It then becomes a tance by the community of the state of mind matter of arresting them. I regard it as quite of a convicted person. So from time to time proper that the court hearing an appeal we have had to amend both Acts, more fre­ should also be vested with authority to place quently the Justices Act. the appe:Jlant in custody. The judge in charge of that court will have authority to Change lakes place not only in issue a warrant immediately to arrest the lhe thinking of the people but also m appellant and take him into custody. This is technology, The Minister has referred to a matter of streamlining the process of law. the use of cameras, a problem which did not occur to the legislators in 1886. We Most of the recommendations in the legis­ have seen cases where the use of a camera lation are designed to streamline the adminis­ has been made a nuisance if not a means tration of justice. This applies particularly of preventin;: the proper free exercise of to the amendments that the Magistrates Court justice. Af1er a certain coroner's inquest may sanction without the costly, unwieldy in this city it was found necessary to amend process of prerogative writs. Not for one the Coroners Act because of the blatant use moment do I suggest that prerogative writs by certain members of the media of cameras should be removed from the reach of the in places where the free exercise of law c1t1zen. They are probably one of the could well have been prevented. For that ordinary citizen's best bulwarks against reason it is intended to restrict the use of bureaucracy and are designed for his cameras in Magistrates Courts and in the protection, but prerogative writs were not precincts of such courts, intended for use in such minor matters as are dealt with by magistrates under such Acts When considering the precincts of courts as the Traffic Act and the Main Roads Act. it is necessary to consider not only the courts as we know them in Brisbane, where So it is not unreasonable for the Magis­ they are situated in fine buildings such as trates Court to be given power to amend the Centra:! Courts, but also the courts in its own records and to amend the documents the country, which could quite easily be the that it possesses. Many of the errors are purely s~ene of quite important, newsworthy trials. and simply grammatical-human errors. They l t is well to consider how far the use of are not such as to change the type of the cameras can go to prevent people from offence, but it is proper that the magistrate coming to and from court and prevent the should have the right and the jurisdiction to proper disposition of justice. amend without the defendant having to go to ~588 Justices Act and the [22 MARCH 1977] Criminal Code, &c., Bill

the expense of issuing a prerogative writ such Mr. Wright: My point is that when it is an as a writ of certiorari and going to the Full apolitical issue such as this, which should Court to have the wrong rectified. The whole have the support of the Committee, it does of the proposed legislation is for the simplifi­ not hurt to Jet Opposition members know cation of the process of law. I believe such beforehand. That is my point. It is done by legislation will have the support of all mem­ other Ministers. bers of the Committee, both Government and Opposition. Mr. Marginson: Not all.

The provision for amendment of section 59 Mr. Wright: No, not all of them. When of the Justices Act is a reasonable one. It it is a political issue you score; but when is admitted that the frequency of prisoners it is not, we ought to know. absconding and escaping to other States would not be great, but it happens often enough Mr. LICKISS: That is fair enough. I have to warrant the amendment. With transport no objection to letting all members know by aircraft and swift land vehicles, it is not as much as possible about it so they can unreasonable to expect that when a person oifer some constructive advice on the measure does escape from custody he may very shortly introduced. find himself in another State. Under the Commonwealth Service of Execution and On the question of the Criminal Code I Process Act there is the present difficulty said first of ail that the amendments were that a warrant cannot be issued in the consequential upon the amendments pro­ absence of a provision under the Act by posed to the Justices Act. They are merely which the person is charged. It is now amendments pointed out by the Parliament­ proposed to amend that section of the ary Counsel and I have taken the opportunity Justices Act. Here again I submit that such of accepting his advice. I am using this an amendment could only have the approval instance to correct an anomaly in relation of all the members. to headings preceding sections of the Code. The format of the Criminal Code as The amendments do nothing more than enacted is such that each section is preceded assist in the administration of justice. For by a heading that encapsules the content of that reason, the measure should have the the section. This still applies to the great support of all members. majority of the Code's provisions. However, in some sections of the Code that have been Hon. W. D. UCKISS (Mt. Coot-tha-Min­ inserted by way of amendment, the original ister for Justice and Attorney-General) (11.8 format has not been preserved, so a few pro­ p.m.), in reply: I thank both honourable mem­ visions of the Code contain a note in and at bers for their contributions. I would like to the beginning of the section which is in the comment firstly on the statements made by nature of a marginal note and not a heading. the honourable member for Rockhampton on the supply of adequate information on the Reference to section 14 of the Acts Inter­ motion for the introduction of the Bill. I pretation Act shows that there is a difference was under the very clear understanding that in status between a heading and a note. This during the motion for the introduction of difrerence may well determine whether resort a Bill it was incumbent upon a Minister may or may not be had to the content of to give the principles of the legislation that the heading or note to aid in the construction he was introducing. of the section. I intended to cover this matter in more lf I might just briefly reiterate what I did detail when I thought it was more approp­ say-and I do not want to delay the riate-at the second-reading stage. I give that Assembly-first of all I referred to the information at this stage to indicate that I difficulties being experienced. I then went do not wish to hide anything. It is a matter on to cover clearly the position relating to the that the honourable member will note also use of cameras within the precincts of the when the Bill is printed. I do not think it is Magistrates Court and the remedy that was to fair to say that I have not outlined all of the be taken; the binding over of witnesses; the principles of the Bill. r set out purposely to amendment to section 59, which was just achieve that. referred to in some detail by my colleague the honourable member for Brisbane, and I thank the honourable member for Bris­ what we proposed to do in relation to that; bane for his very detailed and sound know­ the issuing of warrants following appeals; ledge of the provisions currently before the and the power of justices to rectify mistakes. Committee. I thank him for his contribution. I explained those in some depth. In fact, they are the principles of the Bill. I then Motion (Mr. Lickiss) agreed to. went on to indicate in conclusion that- Resolution reported. "The opportunity has been taken, whilst amending the Justices Act and including FiRST READ!NG in the Bill some consequential amendments to the Criminal Code, to correct two Bill presented and, on motio'l. of \h. anomalies in the Criminal Code. Such Lickiss, read a first time. ame:1dments are included in the Bill." The House adjonrned at 11.14 p.m.