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Oral Evidence: Evidence from the Prime Minister, HC 712 Tuesday 12 January 2016

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Oral Evidence: Evidence from the Prime Minister, HC 712 Tuesday 12 January 2016 Liaison Committee Oral evidence: Evidence from the Prime Minister, HC 712 Tuesday 12 January 2016 Ordered by the House of Commons to be published on 12 January 2016 Watch the meeting Members present: Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chair), Sir Paul Beresford, Mr Clive Betts, Crispin Blunt, Andrew Bridgen, Ms Harriet Harman, Meg Hillier, Huw Irranca-Davies, Dr Julian Lewis, Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil, Jesse Norman, Mr Laurence Robertson, Neil Parish, Keith Vaz, Bill Wiggin Questions 1–108 Witness: Rt Hon David Cameron MP, Prime Minister, gave evidence. Q1 Chair: Good afternoon, Prime Minister. Thank you very much for coming to give evidence to the first of the Liaison Committee’s public meetings in this Session. First of all, I want to establish that you are going to continue the practice of the last Parliament and appear three times a Session. Mr Cameron: Yes, if we all agree. I thought last time it worked quite well to have three sessions: one in this bit, one between Easter and summer, and one later in the year. This idea of picking some subjects, to be determined by you, rather than going across the piece—I am happy either way, but I think it worked okay. Q2 Chair: We have a problem for this Session, because we have a bit of a backlog. We tried to get you before Christmas but that was not possible, so we would be very grateful if you could make two more appearances this Session. Mr Cameron: Yes, that sounds right—one between Easter and summer recess, and one— Q3 Chair: I think it will be two before the summer. Mr Cameron: I hadn’t banked on that. I think that might be more difficult. Q4 Chair: Would you like to have a word with your bank? Oral evidence: Evidence from the Prime Minister, HC 712 1 Mr Cameron: Let me take that away and think about it. Q5 Crispin Blunt: Prime Minister, the Vienna deal that gave us so much hope of a prospect of a Syrian ceasefire and negotiations relied upon the international community—the partners to that deal—bringing their clients to the table and putting some pressure on them. What is your assessment of whether that willingness of people to put pressure on their own clients within the Syrian civil war is still in place? Mr Cameron: The good thing is there is a process, and there is a process with dates and intentions. Secretary of State Kerry has done an amazing job to bring about some momentum by holding that meeting before Christmas and saying he wants to see a meeting on 25 January between the opposition and the regime. That would be a great step forward. What pressure can everyone put on their clients? I am not sure I would totally use that phrase, but certainly in the relationship we have with opposition groups, we will be encouraging them to come forward. We helped with the conference that took place in Saudi Arabia, where a large number of different opposition groups came together. All had signed up to the Geneva principles, and obviously we are encouraging them to form up properly so that they can carry out a dialogue with the regime. I suppose the warning sign I would make is that it is all just incredibly difficult, because to continue the Vienna process, you need Saudi Arabia and Iran in the same room; that is difficult. You need opposition groups to sit down opposite regime figures who they rightly blame for the most appalling brutality. We have seen in recent days what has happened in Madaya, for example. This is very, very difficult, but it is essential, so we just push as hard as we can, and that is what we are doing. Q6 Crispin Blunt: Is part of what Saudi Arabia has done recently to seek almost to drive Iran out of the ISSG and out of the more constructive place that it is trying to find in the international community? Mr Cameron: I don’t think so. You would have to ask the Saudis to explain why they did it and why they did it in the way they did. I think they have, as we do, a great interest in a more stable Syria and in a Syria that can have a Government that represents Sunni as well as Shi’a. Obviously, there are deep tensions between Iran and Saudi Arabia, but it is in everybody’s interests to make this political process work. It will become more difficult, because of the war of words and more between Iran and Saudi Arabia, but we should do everything we can to try to get them round the table together. It is in their interests, and I think they know that it is in their interests. Q7 Crispin Blunt: Was part of the reason for you cancelling your visit to Saudi Arabia implicitly to express your disapproval of Saudi Arabia acting to disrupt international cohesion at this immensely critical time? Mr Cameron: My plans were based around the fact that the Government has an emerging Gulf strategy that we are very keen on. We think it is an important area for the country Oral evidence: Evidence from the Prime Minister, HC 712 2 economically, in terms of security and in terms of trying to create forces for stability in the Middle East, so the Gulf strategy is all about that—re-engaging with this area. We think that previous Governments had rather disengaged from countries like the UAE, Oman and Bahrain, so it is a plan for engagement. My travel arrangements have been more about the fact that I have been rather busy with one or two European issues that I need to bring to a conclusion, but I hope to make a comprehensive Gulf trip at some stage in the coming months. Q8 Crispin Blunt: Syrian Kurds, in the form of the Syrian Democratic Council, have so far been excluded from coming forward to these talks. What is the British Government’s view of their inclusion, which they have now requested? Mr Cameron: Obviously, it is a very sensitive issue because of the Turkish position. Perhaps the best I can say is that, clearly, the Syrian Kurds are playing an important role in terms of the military campaign against Daesh in Syria. I am sure we will come on to talk about the figure of the 70,000 non-extremist forces, which of course didn’t include the 20,000 Kurds. The inclusion in the political process is more difficult, but let’s be clear: a future Syria needs to be a Syria in which Sunni, Shi’a, Christian, Alawite and Kurd all see that they play a role. Q9 Crispin Blunt: This is fairly extraordinary, because the Kurdish forces in both Syria and Iraq are the ones that we are co-operating with most closely in military terms, yet it seems they are not to have some form of seat at the table. Surely we should be supporting them being present at these talks as part of the opposition? Mr Cameron: We want a process that is as inclusive as possible, but we obviously have to go about this in a way that tries to keep it on track as far as we can. Q10 Crispin Blunt: Some of this goes to my wider concern about Turkey and putting the Turkish Government’s fight with the PKK ahead of the wider interest in establishing the framework for us to be able effectively to take on the enemy of all of us, which is ISIL. What can you tell us about your reading of Turkish policy and Turkish intentions, and just how much good faith should we place in Turkey’s commitment to getting these talks and a settlement away so that we can fight our common enemy, ISIL? Mr Cameron: The best I can say is that the British Government, along with others, will do everything we can to say to our allies and friends, the Turks, that the enemy is Daesh, and that is where the focus should be. Of course, we do not agree when they jumble up everybody together and label them one large terrorist group, as they sometimes do. We are very clear that Daesh is the enemy. In terms of helping to bring about a Daesh-free Iraq, clearly the Kurds have got a great role to play there, and as I said, they have been taking some important action in Syria. This is an ongoing process of working with the Turks to convince them that that is the right approach—and I think it is important that we understand their sensitivities and concerns. Q11 Crispin Blunt: We have long been an advocate of bringing Turkey within the European family of nations, and yet now their policy and intentions seem immensely opaque, it is not a good place to be, is it? Oral evidence: Evidence from the Prime Minister, HC 712 3 Mr Cameron: We would like them to be even more focused than they are on Daesh. I think there are signs that that is improving and changing. If you look, for instance, at the work we are doing on the Turkish border, the interdiction of oil supplies and oil smuggling, the work with partner intelligence services across Europe, including in Britain, I would say they are stepping up the work they are doing to counter Daesh, and in everything we do we need to encourage that as much as we can. Q12 Crispin Blunt: Is there not a danger that there is a parallel with the behaviour of Turkey in that of Pakistan over policy towards Afghanistan, where there has constantly seemed to be at the very least at a double game played by Pakistan.
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