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Tuesday Volume 521 18 January 2011 No. 100 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday 18 January 2011 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 679 18 JANUARY 2011 680 The Deputy Prime Minister: If we needed any House of Commons confirmation, this week of all weeks, that the Labour party’s commitment to cleaning up politics and political reform is a complete and utter farce—the leader of the Tuesday 18 January 2011 Labour party who, sadly, is not in his place, was going around the television studios last weekend saying that The House met at half-past Two o’clock he believed in new politics and that he wanted to reach out to Liberal Democrat voters—it is the dinosaurs in the Labour party in the House of Lords who are PRAYERS blocking people’s ability to have a say on the electoral system that they want. There cannot be meaningful political reform with such weak political leadership. [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): One hundred years after the temporary provisions of the Parliament Act 1911 were introduced, some of us are impatient for Oral Answers to Questions my right hon. Friend to succeed in achieving an elected second Chamber. Can he reassure me that the grandfathering of voting rights will not be offered to newly appointed peers under the present Government? DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER The Deputy Prime Minister: The specific reference to grandfathering in the coalition agreement applies to the The Deputy Prime Minister was asked— staged way in which we want reform of the House of Lords implemented over time. We want to be clear House of Lords Reform about the end point, which is a fully reformed House of Lords, but the stages by which we get there should be 1. Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): What subject to proper scrutiny and proper debate, and will process he plans to follow to develop and implement be, not least in the Joint Committee, when we publish proposals for a wholly or mainly elected second Chamber. the draft Bill, which we will do fairly shortly. [33928] Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab): The Deputy Prime Minister The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg): Iam has got himself a reputation as an habitual breaker of chairing a cross-party Committee to look at all aspects promises. May I ask him a simple and straightforward of House of Lords reform. We plan to publish a draft question, to which I hope he will give a simple and Bill in the coming period for pre-legislative scrutiny straightforward answer? In his draft Bill on the House by—we hope—a Joint Committee of both Houses. Then of Lords to be published shortly, will he keep his it will be for the Government to decide on the introduction promise of a 100% elected second Chamber? of the Bill. The Deputy Prime Minister: As the right hon. Gentleman Dr Lewis: Given that an all-elected upper House knows—he is a member of the very Committee that I would, in effect, double the number of MPs while have been chairing—that issue is still under discussion. resulting in hundreds of highly skilled and eminent men We will make our views clear, as he well knows, when we and women being thrown out, what effects does the publish the draft Bill. He talks about promises. Is that Deputy Prime Minister think will be applied to the the equivalent of the promise to hold a referendum on legislative process as a result of this brilliant idea? Will the alternative vote—a manifesto commitment made by it lead to greater effectiveness, greater prestige or just his party, which is now being blocked by the Labour more machine politics? party in the other place? The Deputy Prime Minister: My own view, as someone Parliamentary Constituencies who has always supported greater democracy in the other place and greater accountability to the British 2. Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): When he people, is that the legitimacy of the other place would expects his proposals for fewer and more equally sized be enhanced. There are plenty of other bicameral constituencies to be implemented. [33929] democracies around the world that have two elected Chambers of different size with different mandates, The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg): The elected even by different systems, which work extremely Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill well in striking the right balance between effectiveness currently being considered, if somewhat stalled by the and legitimacy. Labour party in another place, requires the boundary commissions to submit their reports before 1 October 2013. Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): Of course, The Secretary of State or the Lord President is required it was the previous Labour Government who made sure to lay before Parliament an Order in Council to bring that the large majority of hereditary peers were removed— the commissions’ recommendations into effect. nearly 700—from the House of Lords. Has the Deputy Prime Minister any words of congratulations for Members Bob Blackman: The majority of this House will certainly of the current House of Lords on the way in which they condemn the delays not only in this Chamber but in the are defending democracy against gerrymandering? other place. Does my right hon. Friend agree that that 681 Oral Answers18 JANUARY 2011 Oral Answers 682 demonstrates the Opposition’s contempt for equal-sized Chris Bryant: It is not incurring more. constituencies and equal votes for people throughout the country? The Deputy Prime Minister: It is the choice of the coalition Government to say that we want to reform The Deputy Prime Minister: As I said earlier, the politics not in a piecemeal fashion, but in a meaningful leader of the Labour party said this very weekend that way. To introduce both the right for people to have a say he believed in new politics and political reform, yet he over the electoral system and to ensure that constituencies cannot control members of his own party in the House are of roughly the same size seems a perfectly sensible of Lords. Either he did not mean what he said at the way to proceed. That is what we will do, and I do not weekend, or he is too weak to lead his own party. Either think that the hon. Gentleman should be whipping up way, the Labour party cannot be relied upon to deliver the dinosaurs in the Labour party in the other place to political reform. stop us from doing so. Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): Many reform-minded Members of this House are getting fed up with the right Act of Settlement hon. Gentleman’s attitude to electoral reform. He has broken so many promises in the coalition agreement, so 3. Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): What why does he not separate the date of the referendum on recent discussions he has had with ministerial the alternative vote from the gerrymandering that his colleagues on reform of the Act of Settlement. [33932] Government are putting through? The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Mark The Deputy Prime Minister: We want to hold the Harper): I have had no recent discussions with ministerial referendum as soon as possible. We think that it is right colleagues on reforming the Act of Settlement. to hold it when people are going to the ballot box anyway. That will save the taxpayer £30 million. We Alex Cunningham: I am no monarchist, but does the think that that is the right way to proceed. We on the hon. Gentleman agree with me that, if we must have a Government Benches do not agree on the issue of AV, monarchy, women should have equality with men in but at least we agree that the British people should have succession? their say—something that the Labour party is now trying to block. Mr Harper: Ministers have already accepted that the Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): My provision in the Act of Settlement might well be constituency is one of the smallest English seats. If I discriminatory, and I have already confirmed at the adhered to the principle of naked self-interest, I would Dispatch Box when responding to a previous debate, be supporting the status quo. Is it not right that we have not that we are doing nothing, but that discussions are equal-sized constituencies—equality for all voters so under way with other countries of which Her Majesty is that each vote has equal value? Queen. She is not just our Queen, but Queen of 15 other realms, and those matters have to be taken forward The Deputy Prime Minister: Of course it is. It has together in a careful and considered way. It is not as been a principle for political and democratic reformers straightforward as the hon. Gentleman would like to of all parties for generations that all votes should be pretend it is. valued in the same way. It simply cannot be right, for instance, that right now Islington North has an electorate Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab): I welcome that of just over 66,000, and yet 10 miles away in East Ham response. As the Minister knows, my ten-minute rule the figure is 87,000. Voters in a constituency just 10 miles Bill on that subject is to be introduced at 3.30 pm today.