< 1> Friday, 15th May 1998. < 2> THE CHAIRMAN: Good morning. Do sit down, thank you < 3> very much. Mr Lawson, before we start, there is just < 4> one announcement that I think I ought to make. < 5> Yesterday evening we had a meeting with all the lawyers < 6> involved and the represented parties in order to < 7> discuss the giving of evidence by the five young men < 8> who have been known as the suspects. There is no need < 9> for me to name them. <10> As a result of that discussion, it was indicated <11> to me that the lawyers on behalf of those five young <12> men propose to take proceedings by way of judicial <13> review in the divisional Court of the High Court in <14> order to test various matters in connection with the <15> summons that I issued and the vires, that is to say the <16> powers that were exercised in the making of the <17> original decision that this inquiry should be held. <18> I phrase the matter broadly because, of course, I <19> do not know exactly what the nature of the application <20> will be. I simply indicate that publicly. They <21> propose to make that application, but it will not hold <22> up the business of the Inquiry. We will, of course, <23> continue with our programme and call the witnesses as <24> they have been listed and as we hope that they will <25> appear between now and the time when they may come to

. P-5054 < 1> give evidence. < 2> MR LAWSON: Thank you, sir. < 3> Sir, as you know, Mr Brooks is in attendance this < 4> morning and it is proposed that his statement will be < 5> read. < 6> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. < 7> MR LAWSON: Before that is done, I do not wish to delay < 8> it, just so far as the planning of the day is < 9> concerned. Perhaps we could seek your direction. I <10> know that Mr Mansfield and Ms Woodley have been having <11> discussions about the evidence of Mr Crampton and <12> finishing that today. I gather there are <13> difficulties. Perhaps that could be resolved now. <14> THE CHAIRMAN: I think that is sensible because we <15> would have to contact him if we wanted him to come <16> back. <17> MR MANSFIELD: Sir, yes, I am much obliged. The <18> position is, as Ms Woodley appreciates, that until <19> yesterday we were unaware of a certain matter. I am <20> not going to name anybody for any purpose at this <21> stage, it all arises out of a particular page, which I <22> do not ask to be brought up on the screen, in the <23> Kent Report. <24> THE CHAIRMAN: The one you used when you were <25> cross-examining Mr Crowley?

. P-5055 < 1> MR MANSFIELD: That's right. < 2> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, yes. We are all aware of the < 3> position. < 4> MR MANSFIELD: Can I just say this: three separate < 5> authorities have been asked if they would kindly < 6> provide the materials that relate to, in fact, the two < 7> paragraphs that are at the bottom of that page and < 8> particularly the bottom paragraph on that page and we < 9> have asked for additional materials as well. <10> To date and over night we have had three <11> documents, but the major amount of the material has not <12> been proffered yet. There has not been a refusal or a <13> resistance, it has been very difficult to contact all <14> of the relevant individuals who are capable of giving <15> the authority and the material. At the moment there is <16> no response from any of them, and that is not a <17> criticism, it has just not been possible to crystallise <18> it. I do not really see it being possible to get the <19> material here by lunchtime, to assimilate it and then <20> put the witness on notice as to what it is. <21> THE CHAIRMAN: I see. Well, I am naturally inquisitive <22> and I would like to know what the documents are, but I <23> think it is better that I do not ask. I simply leave <24> it to you and Ms Woodley to carry on and we will have <25> Mr Crampton back on Monday morning.

. P-5056 < 1> MR MANSFIELD: I am obliged. < 2> THE CHAIRMAN: Ms Woodley, do you agree? < 3> MS WOODLEY: I do, sir, yes. < 4> THE CHAIRMAN: After Mr Brooks' evidence has been read < 5> then we will have Mr Barley, I understand, and we will < 6> likely to finish before lunch probably. < 7> MS WOODLEY: I think that is probably right. < 8> THE CHAIRMAN: I do not think anybody will cry over < 9> that. Naturally, I am sure we will catch up with any <10> time that is lost next week when we get on with the <11> other witnesses. <12> Mr Menon, Mr Duwayne Brooks sits beside you. <13> MR MENON: On my left, sir. <14> THE CHAIRMAN: We are very glad that he has come and we <15> are grateful for his attendance. Thank you very much, <16> Mr Brooks. <17> Mr Menon, I understand, will read the two <18> statements of Duwayne Brooks and they will be, of <19> course, be recorded on the tape and when that is <20> finished they will be quickly prepared in the form of a <21> statement which can be released to the parties and to <22> those who wish to see it. Thank you very much. <23> MR MENON: I am grateful. <24> The statement of Duwayne Brooks is in two parts: <25> part 1 is dated 6th April, 1998 and is signed and

. P-5057 < 1> begins as follows: < 2> "Stephen Lawrence was one of my best friends. We < 3> met on our first day at secondary school -- the < 4> Blackheath Bluecoats, Church of England School. We < 5> were both about 11 years old. < 6> "Both Steve and I were 18 in 1993 when Steve was < 7> murdered. < 8> "In 1993 Steve was at school and I was at < 9> college. We saw each other regularly---- <10> THE CHAIRMAN: Mr Menon, I am so sorry interrupt. Can <11> you go a little slower because it has to be taken down, <12> you know, in one piece. It is not easy if you do not <13> have pauses. Start that paragraph again, would you <14> again, paragraph 2. <15> MR MENON:"In 1993 Steve was at school and I was at <16> college. We saw each other regularly. We usually met <17> either at my house or his Uncle Martin and wife <18> Millie's house. On April 22nd 1993 we were together at <19> Martin and Millie's house. <20> "In the evening we were hurrying to get back, as <21> Steve wanted to get home as soon as possible. We were <22> just looking for a bus on Well Hall Road. We were <23> attacked by a group of white boys, one of whom <24> shouted: 'What, what nigger?'. <25> "I can't bear to go into the details of it at this

. P-5058 < 1> stage, so I will recount what happened after the < 2> murder." < 3> The first heading is: < 4> "The scene of the murder: < 5> "As we were running from the attack, Steve fell to < 6> the floor opposite the junction to Downman Road. I < 7> stopped on the pavement. I went back and I bent down < 8> and looked at him. He was lying by a tree. He was < 9> still breathing. I saw his blood running down the <10> floor. He could not speak. I saw his blood running <11> away. <12> "I ran across the road to the phone box and <13> dialled 999. I asked for an ambulance. I left the <14> phone hanging to run round the corner to see if the <15> boys were coming back up the road. <16> "I saw a white couple. I have since been told <17> they are called Taaffes. They were walking down the <18> road towards the phone box from Shooters Hill, so I ran <19> and asked for their help. They just ignored me. They <20> looked at me and sort of shimmied away and walked on. <21> "I have recently been shown Conor Taaffe's <22> statement. I see he thought that we might be going to <23> rob them. This fits with my recollection of how they <24> behaved towards me when I first approached them. <25> "I ran back to the phone box and picked up the

. P-5059 < 1> receiver and spoke. I told the lady, who said < 2> something like, I am still here. What happened? We < 3> had an exchange about where I was. I knew where I was < 4> but I looked at a printed card in the phone box. It < 5> was wrong, I think it said the postcode was SE26. I < 6> got confused and frustrated, I don't know whether she < 7> could hear me properly. I was shouting. < 8> "I can't remember if she asked me for a phone < 9> number. I cannot remember exactly what I told her <10> about what happened. <11> "I slammed the phone down on the shelf and left. <12> "I am told it is said that I kicked the box. I <13> don't recall this but it is possible given how <14> frustrated I was. I was frustrated then because there <15> was no help. <16> "I ran out in the road and tried to stop some <17> cars. I was waving my arms around. Cars passed me <18> by. No-one stopped. A white Peugeot 205 slowed down, <19> nearly skidded and nearly knocked me over. It was a <20> white man who was in it. He stopped, looked at me and <21> drove around me. <22> "I am now not sure the order in which my trying to <23> stop cars, phoning the ambulance and trying to get the <24> Taaffes to help me took place. <25> "A car stopped by Steve. I now know the driver

. P-5060 < 1> was an off-duty police officer, Mr Geddis, who was with < 2> his wife, Angela Geddis. He asked what happened and if < 3> I had called an ambulance and I told him we had been < 4> add Tamed. I said I tried to call the ambulance. < 5> "I said we had been attacked, and that as iron bar < 6> was used and that it was by white boys. < 7> "I was using the "F" word, but not at him, in my < 8> speech. I don't use other kinds of swear words and I < 9> didn't on that night. <10> "He went into the phone box. <11> "I waited with Steve and the Taaffes and <12> Angela Geddis by the side of the road. At first one of <13> them knelt by him, not holding him. <14> "I was pacing up and down, up and down. I was <15> crying. I was desperate for the ambulance. It was <16> taking too long. I was frightened by the amount of <17> blood Steve was losing. I saw his life fading away. I <18> didn't know what to do to help him, I was frightened I <19> would do something wrong. <20> "Angela Geddis went and crouched down by Steve. I <21> asked if Steve was breathing. She said yes. I kept <22> asking. <23> "The Taaffes may have prayed. Mr Taaffe may have <24> told me that Steve was lying in the right position. It <25> is possible that I told one of them that my name was

. P-5061 < 1> Duwayne and that Steve was my friend. I can't < 2> remember. < 3> "Mr Geddis came back to us. < 4> "At some point either a woman or a man came and < 5> put a blanket on Steve. < 6> "Uniformed officers arrived later. They arrived < 7> before the ambulance. < 8> "A uniformed officer who I have since been told is < 9> called WPC Bethel came up and asked me who had done <10> this. I said a group of six white boys. I then said <11> where is the f-ing ambulance I didn't call the police. <12> She said they were on their way. I said I'd called <13> them about 15 minutes ago. <14> "She said: 'What has happened'? I was saying: <15> 'Where is the ambulance'? That's was I wanted to know. <16> "I told her we were attacked, but I had got away. <17> She asked me where the boys went and I pointed out the <18> road that they had gone down. <19> "When I pointed to her where they had run, she did <20> nothing. She did not make any use of the information. <21> She did not do anything about it like tell the other <22> officer there or anyone on her radio. She didn't ask <23> what the name of the road was. <24> "She asked me more than once where they had gone. <25> The second time she asked I said something like: 'I

. P-5062 < 1> f-ing told you where they went, are you deaf? Why < 2> don't you go and look for them'. It is like she didn't < 3> believe me. She just kept saying---- < 4> MR KAMLISH: I am sorry to interrupt. Mr Lawrence has < 5> collapsed in our family room. I think sure he is all < 6> right but I think we have to call a doctor. Can we < 7> stop proceedings for a little while please? < 8> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, yes. Dr Stone will go at once. We < 9> will adjourn. Dr Stone, who is one of my advisers, has <10> gone to see Mr Lawrence at once so he will have <11> immediate help and anything that needs to be done will <12> be done. <13> <(Short Adjournment) <14> DR STONE: I am Dr Stone. Can I just say I have just <15> come back from Neville Lawrence, he is physically fine, <16> he is very overcome. We will be able to start again <17> soon because he wants us to start again soon, he wants <18> Duwayne's evidence to be read out properly. <19> Thank you. <20> THE CHAIRMAN: Are we ready now, Mr Menon? <21> MR MENON: Yes. <22> THE CHAIRMAN: I am glad to say that Dr Stone has seen <23> Mr Lawrence and he is better and we all wish him well. <24> MR MENON: Sir, I will start at paragraph 31 I think I <25> was halfway through that.

. P-5063 < 1> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. < 2> MR MENON: "She", ie WPC Bethel, "asked me for than once < 3> where they had gone. The second time she asked I said < 4> something like: 'I f-ing told you where they went, are < 5> you deaf? Why don't you go and look for them'. It was < 6> like she didn't believe me. She just kept saying < 7> 'calm down' which made me more frustrated her saying < 8> that and doing nothing for Steve. < 9> "She asked what they looked like and I said they <10> were a group of white boys. <11> "She asked how did we get here. I didn't answer <12> that question. <13> "She asked me our names and addresses and I gave <14> them to her. <15> "A male uniformed officer came up at one point. <16> "She asked questions like: 'Who are they to <17> you'? 'What are their names'? 'Where do they live'? I <18> said I didn't know the boys. She said: 'Your friend is <19> lying there and you say you don't know who those boys <20> are'. <21> "She said: 'So how did it start'? 'Did they chase <22> you for nothing'? I said one of them shouted: 'What, <23> what nigger'. She and other officers kept asking me <24> what happened and if I was sure of what I was saying. <25> "She asked if I had any weapons on me.

. P-5064 < 1> "She was treating me like she was suspicious of < 2> me, not like she wanted to help. < 3> "When she asked me stupid questions I kept saying < 4> 'where is the ambulance? I didn't call for you'. I < 5> wanted them to get him to hospital, and there they were < 6> talking rubbish in my ears and walking up and down < 7> doing nothing. I knew the hospital was only two < 8> minutes up the road. I became increasingly frustrated < 9> and loud and agitated. <10> "I asked her and other officers more than once why <11> couldn't they put Steve in the car and drive him to <12> hospital. They said that they couldn't do that. They <13> never gave a reason, they just said I should calm down <14> and: 'Be sensible about it for your friend's sake'. How <15> could they say to me: 'Calm down', when they weren't <16> doing anything about the situation? <17> "I got the impression that the police were <18> repulsed by the blood that was there or on the whole <19> they just didn't want to help. They should have known <20> what to do. However horrible they found the blood it <21> was their job to do something to help him. They did <22> not do anything useful. <23> "While I was taking to WPC Bethel I was walking up <24> and down, pacing out of frustration and helplessness, <25> and looking for the ambulance. She kept saying

. P-5065 < 1> 'stand still', but I didn't. < 2> "I didn't answer those of her questions which I < 3> thought were stupid. I only answered her sensible < 4> questions. A sensible question she didn't ask would < 5> have been: 'Shall I drive you in the direction where < 6> they ran'? < 7> "If she had asked for more details of the boys' < 8> descriptions or what they were wearing I would have < 9> told her. Those would have been sensible questions. <10> "I have been told that she said that I said I did <11> not witness the assault. This is not true. <12> "She did not ask if I was all right or if I had <13> been attacked. <14> "She did not take notes. <15> "Those by Steve were near enough so they would <16> have heard me when I was shouting, I shouted when I was <17> saying: 'Why can't you put him in the car'?, but they <18> wouldn't have heard her questions. <19> "She wandered off at some stage and came back. I <20> didn't see her go to Steve at all but she could have <21> done and I didn't notice. Another uniformed woman <22> police officer came up at one point and joined in the <23> questioning. I have been told she is called WPC Smith. <24> "I heard someone come over the radio saying 'the <25> ambulance is at Well Hall roundabout - can't you see

. P-5066 < 1> it'? It wasn't her radio. I couldn't see the < 2> ambulance. < 3> "I started going frantic saying: 'Where is the < 4> ambulance'? As the ambulance didn't come and she was < 5> asking stupid questions I got more and more wound up. < 6> I could feel the ambulance was going to be too late. < 7> "Various officers came and told me to calm down < 8> for my friend's sake. I again asked some of them to < 9> take Steve to the hospital but they wouldn't. <10> "I overheard on the radio that the ambulance was <11> coming from Shooter's Hill. Then a male police officer <12> went off to go and get it. This may have been <13> PC Gleason. <14> "One uniformed officer went up to Steve and shined <15> a torch in his face, I said: 'Why are you doing that'? <16> He said: 'It is supposed to be good for you'. He <17> carried on doing it. He was kneeling down. I walked <18> off. I didn't know whether to believe him or not. <19> "One male uniformed officer was different from the <20> others. He asked me if I was injured in any way and if <21> I needed to sit down. I said no, I was fine. I cannot <22> describe what he looked like. I may have been asked if <23> he had grey hair or a grey moustache. He didn't. <24> "Apart from this one officer no-one asked me if I <25> was injured. No-one asked me if I had been attacked.

. P-5067 < 1> No-one asked me if I was all right. < 2> "None of the uniformed officers were doing < 3> anything for Steve. They should have known what to < 4> do. They should have done something for Steve. No-one < 5> appeared to be doing anything with the information I < 6> gave them about the attackers. They just stood there < 7> doing nothing. No-one went down Dickson Road after the < 8> boys. < 9> "None of the officers asked me if I would <10> recognise any of the boys again. I obviously would <11> have said yes if they had asked. I note PC Gleason <12> says that I didn't give enough information to make a <13> street ID. This is unfair. I gave them the <14> information that they asked for and I could have <15> recognised the boys if they took me around. <16> "I note PC Gleason says I was 'virtually <17> uncontrollable'. What did they need to control me <18> for? They should have taken control of the situation <19> and organised help for Steve and chasing the boys. I <20> have been told that other officers said I was <21> 'hysterical'. I was very upset and frustrated but I <22> was not out of control or hysterical. I was perfectly <23> capable of answering sensible questions and giving <24> information as I did do. <25> "The first time anyone made any use of that

. P-5068 < 1> information that I gave them was when different police < 2> arrived - a police carrier came down the hill and < 3> parked near us. An officer went to the passenger side < 4> and pointed in the direction of Dickson Road. It left < 5> in that direction almost straight away. I saw no-one < 6> get out. I didn't see where it actually went to. < 7> "This was some time after the first uniformed < 8> police arrived. It seemed like ages - it may have been < 9> about 10 minutes - but I don't know how long exactly. <10> "Then another police carrier came the other way, <11> turned round, stopped and went off. <12> "I was very upset. I was wound up by the <13> officers. I was very angry at the boys and <14> increasingly at the officers and because the ambulance <15> was not coming. <16> "The ambulance arrived. Mr Salih says it took 6 <17> minutes to get there from Greenwich District Hospital <18> and I think that is just about right. <19> "Mr Mann, the other ambulanceman, put a plastic <20> thing in Steve's mouth - the thing you are meant to <21> carry to save people's lives. <22> "They carried Steve to the ambulance on a <23> stretcher. His unopened ginger beer can fell from him <24> onto the floor. I picked it up. I took it home and <25> kept it in my room, until one day it exploded.

. P-5069 < 1> "I tried to get into the ambulance with Steve but < 2> police officers would not let me. They said there was < 3> no space. I really wanted to be in the ambulance with < 4> Steve. I wanted to be with him. I wanted to see what < 5> was happening. < 6> "When they wouldn't let me I thought: 'Well, the < 7> hospital is only 2 minutes up the road' and agreed to < 8> go in a police car. < 9> "I don't remember much about the journey except I <10> told the driver to hurry up. I am told that WPC <11> Joanne Smith says she drove me to the hospital. I am <12> told she said I called the police 'pigs' and used the <13> word 'c--t'. I did not. I don't use those words." <14> The next heading is the hospital. <15> "The Hospital: <16> "When I got to the hospital I walked behind the <17> stretcher. Steve went into a different room. One of <18> the nurses asked me to go with her but I said: 'It is <19> okay' and walked off. I went into a waiting room. I <20> sat, and then I walked around. <21> "A policeman came up and said that he wanted to <22> talk to me, to help my friend. <23> "I was most probably shouting and walking off. He <24> told me his name. I now know it is PC Gleason. He <25> said he needed to take a statement of what happened. I

. P-5070 < 1> don't know what I said. I lent on the reception < 2> counter. I kept walking off. It took a long time. I < 3> kept stopping. He kept saying: 'I need a statement. I < 4> need a statement'. He kept asking me whether it was < 5> true that the boys said: 'What, what nigger'. < 6> "He took notes in his book. I didn't read the < 7> notebook. I don't remember signing it, but that is my < 8> signature on his notebook. < 9> "Some of Steve's family arrived. <10> "I was told that Steve was dead when I was in an <11> office. I don't want to talk about it. <12> "I was taken to see his body. I don't want to <13> talk about it. <14> "At the hospital nobody enquired if I was all <15> right or if I had been attacked. I was offered no <16> comfort. <17> "A policeman said that I couldn't leave. He said <18> I had to go to the police station to make a statement. <19> He said: 'You can either wait here or go and sit in the <20> police car until you are taken to the station so that <21> 'we won't lose you'. <22> I didn't want to be in the hospital so I chose the <23> police car option. <24> "I wanted to leave and go home. I felt I <25> couldn't. I felt if I left the police would have

. P-5071 < 1> stopped me and arrested me: < 2> "The policeman walked me to the car. It was < 3> parked in front of the hospital where the ambulances < 4> were. He asked me to wait until I was taken to the < 5> police station. I said okay and sat in the car on my < 6> own. < 7> "It felt like I was in the police car in the < 8> carpark for half an hour or an hour." < 9> The next heading is: <10> "Plumstead Police Station: <11> "I was then driven to Plumstead Police Station. I <12> can't remember who took me or what was said on the way. <13> "When we got to the police station the car went <14> round the back and parked in the carpark. I was taken <15> in the back entrance of the station. <16> "As far as I can remember when I was taken up some <17> stairs and into a room. <18> "I remember sitting in a room and being calm. <19> "I now know that in their statements the police <20> said I broke a window in the front office. I didn't, I <21> wasn't even in the front office. It just shows they <22> were treating me like a criminal and not like a victim. <23> "I was waiting in a room opposite a big room. I <24> can remember being in the room for what felt like ages. <25> "Most of the time I was sat there on my own. An

. P-5072 < 1> officer was in there standing up. He told me he had to < 2> stay in the room to look after me. I took it he meant < 3> to stop me wandering off or doing wrong. < 4> "He chatted with me. He was waiting for a senior < 5> officer to come. I think it may have been for an < 6> Area Commander, but that may be wrong. He was filling < 7> in time. < 8> He asked me if I wanted tea. I don't drink tea so < 9> I said, 'no, thank you'. He asked me if I was all <10> right. I said, 'yeah'. <11> "Nobody asked me whether I wanted to be at the <12> station or whether I would prefer to go home. Nobody <13> asked me where I would like to have my statement taken. <14> "Before my statement was taken a senior officer <15> talked to me briefly about what had happened. The <16> senior officer I saw was a small man. I can't remember <17> much of the conversation except I told him that we had <18> been attacked by a group of white boys one of whom <19> said: 'What, what nigger'. <20> "The officer who took the statement from me was <21> DC Cooper. <22> "Before and perhaps during the statement taking, <23> someone came in and asked me to go with them to see how <24> the investigation was taking place, and took me into <25> the big room. This happened about twice. A number of

. P-5073 < 1> officers said that I was important to this < 2> investigation and that was why I had to tell the truth. < 3> "They kept saying:'Are you sure they said, 'what, < 4> what nigger'? I remember someone, maybe the same < 5> senior officer saying: 'You know what this means if < 6> you are telling the truth. Are you sure they said: < 7> 'what, what nigger?' I said: 'I am telling the < 8> truth.' He said: 'You mean you have done nothing to < 9> provoke this in any way?' I said: 'No, we were just <10> waiting for a bus.' <11> "I thought either they thought I was lying or they <12> wanted to do a Jedi mind trick on me so I would lie and <13> say it didn't happen. I thought that because they kept <14> on at me. It was mainly the senior officer. I wanted <15> to start shouting and calling them idiots but I <16> couldn't, I was just too tired. It was the senior <17> officer that they were waiting for before DC Cooper <18> took my statement. <19> "Both DC Cooper and the senior officer were <20> suspicious of my account of how we were attacked. <21> "I can't remember the names of the officers who I <22> met in the big room. <23> I was keen to make a statement. I was keen to get <24> it over and done with. I don't know what time we <25> started doing the statement but I do remember getting

. P-5074 < 1> home about 7 am. < 2> "DC Cooper asked me whether I wanted anyone with < 3> me. He was the only police officer to ask that. As it < 4> would have delayed everything to fetch someone I said I < 5> didn't, I just wanted to get it over and done with. < 6> "I wished I had gone home from the hospital and < 7> slept and come back the next day. DC Cooper said: 'If < 8> you want to go you can go', but I said: 'No, now I am < 9> here I want to get it over with.' When he said that it <10> was the first time I realised that I had a choice about <11> going home. <12> "DC Cooper did not give me an idea of how long it <13> would take to give the statement. <14> "DC Cooper said: 'Okay, let's start from the <15> beginning?' He asked me questions and I answered them. <16> He was writing down my answers. <17> "While I was answering the questions and giving my <18> statement an officer told me that my Mum was at the <19> police station. I thought giving the statement would <20> be over soon so at first I said I would finish it and <21> then see her. But it took so long I asked to see her. <22> They took me to a different room and she was brought in <23> with Everton. I told my Mum what had happened. What I <24> said upset her. She said: 'It's a racist murder'. An <25> officer told her to calm down. He said: 'We don't know

. P-5075 < 1> that yet. We are trying to establish the facts.' I < 2> knew I knew the facts and that I had told them to the < 3> officers. I wanted to say something. I couldn't < 4> because I would have started crying. < 5> "I went back to making my statement. < 6> "While he was taking my statement DC Cooper asked < 7> the size of my foot and then said we need to take your < 8> trainers from you to take a foot print. I gave him my < 9> trainers. I was thinking: 'what do you want them for, <10> I haven't committed any burglaries?' But I didn't say <11> anything because I didn't want to make the suspicions <12> of me worse. <13> "There is nothing in my statement about the colour <14> of my attacker's hair. I was telling DC Cooper <15> everything I could. If he had asked me the colour I <16> would have told him just as I had told PC Gleason. <17> "At the end DC Cooper asked me to read my <18> statement and sign it. I was so tired. I just scanned <19> it and signed it. <20> "At no stage did any officer ask me whether any of <21> the white boys attacked me or touched me, or did they <22> ask me for any of my clothes except to take the print <23> off my trainers, as I have mentioned. No-one asked me <24> more than is set out in the section 9 statement that <25> DC Cooper took that night.

. P-5076 < 1> "I remember an officer driving me home. I got < 2> there about 7 am. < 3> "I spent the days after playing my Nintendo at < 4> home. This was a hostel. It was a halfway house to < 5> getting a flat from a housing association. There were < 6> about six of us, each with our own room, kitchen and < 7> bathroom. < 8> "I note that the AMIP meeting of 25th April, 1993 < 9> says that I was not in the hostel. I was. The police <10> came round and asked if I was okay after a couple of <11> days. The police offered me protection. I think that <12> it may have been DS Bevan who asked me. He did not <13> tell me why I might need it, so I said: 'No'. <14> "DS Bevan told me that he was my liaison officer. <15> He said he was on the investigation. He said I should <16> ask him for things I needed. <17> "At no stage did he or any other officer ask me if <18> I had been attacked nor did he refer me to <19> Victim Support or offer me counselling, nor did he <20> advise me about the Criminal Injuries Compensation <21> Board. <22> "At no stage did he or any officer consult me <23> about whether I wished to press charges for the attack <24> on me. They didn't treat me as a victim of crime. <25> "At no statement did he or any officer advise me

. P-5077 < 1> who to speak to or who not to speak to about what I had < 2> experienced and seen. < 3> "They didn't say: keep it quiet or tell the < 4> world, to see if anyone recognised my descriptions of < 5> the attackers. < 6> "Eventually they themselves advertised part of my < 7> description of one of the attackers. < 8> "At the time DS Bevan seemed to treat me more < 9> seriously than the other officers did, so I trusted him <10> a bit more than I did the other police. <11> "I have always told him that the attack was a <12> racist attack. <13> "I saw DS Bevan on a number of occasions. I am <14> concerned that they have become a jumble in my mind. <15> "Some time soon after the murder I heard that <16> fascists has been looking for me at the school that <17> Steve and I went to. <18> "I had heard that the headmaster told the school <19> assembly that I had been with Steve that night. I <20> heard the fascists had looked for other black students <21> at other schools. That made me frightened. <22> "I told the police and they did nothing. I became <23> frightened that the murderers would come and find me. <24> John Bevan told me that some of the other witnesses <25> were under protection. I wanted the police to find the

. P-5078 < 1> people who were looking for me and to find the < 2> murderers. < 3> "I can't remember if I asked for protection then. < 4> I was confused and frightened. I was frightened that < 5> the murderers would get me and I was frightened of the < 6> police. It was unbelievable that they had not arrested < 7> anyone. I didn't trust their investigation. < 8> "I cannot recall the detail or order of all of the < 9> meetings with the officers. They told me that there <10> were other witnesses. I asked them questions about <11> them but they didn't tell me anything. <12> "I remember that they had not located the woman <13> getting on the bus and I told one of the officers that <14> I thought she was French, as I had heard her speak when <15> she got on the bus. <16> "Arrangements were made by police for me to do an <17> artist's sketch at my home. I did it on 6th May, <18> 1993. I thought it was a good likeness, but I couldn't <19> fix the eyes. <20> "I was not referred to my earlier statement on <21> this day, I just had to think back and answer the <22> questions. Nor was I referred to PC Gleason's notebook <23> when I was giving my section 9 statement to DC Cooper. <24> "I later did a computer sketch at peck cam Police <25> Station. That was accurate too. I am told DS Bevan

. P-5079 < 1> says that I played pool with him afterwards, this is < 2> correct. He also said that I had tea, this isn't < 3> right. I don't drink tea. < 4> "I had a lot more contact with the police, < 5> including thee identification parades that I would like < 6> to deal with in the second part of my statement." < 7> The next heading is Demonstration of 8th May, 1993 < 8> and Croydon Prosecution: < 9> "Demonstration of 8th May, 1993 and Croyden <10> Prosecution: <11> "On 8th May I went to a large anti-racist <12> demonstration outside the British National Party <13> headquarters in Welling. I went to protest against <14> Steve's murder and the way the police were handling it. <15> "In October 1993 I was arrested and charged with <16> offences arising out of the demonstration of the <17> previous May. They waited 5 months to prosecute me. <18> They waited until after the Crown Prosecution Service <19> had decided to drop the prosecution against the <20> killers. It was devastating. I had no convictions at <21> the time of the murder. It felt like the police and <22> prosecutors decided to get at me to ruin my <23> reputation -- and the chance of any future prosecution <24> of the murders. <25> "But the Judge at the Croydon Crown Court wasn't

. P-5080 < 1> having any of it. In December 1994 he stopped the < 2> prosecution saying it was an Abuse of the Process of < 3> the Court. < 4> "In April 1994 I had been diagnosed as suffering < 5> from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. < 6> "I would like to pause this part of my evidence < 7> now with something about police protection." < 8> The next heading is Police Protection. < 9> "Police Protection: <10> "I was frightened for my life, I had heard that <11> other witnesses had been given protection. I was most <12> scared when the case came into the media and there were <13> Court hearings. I would like to say how unsafe I felt, <14> and sometimes still feel. For now I can just recount <15> the protection during the hearings." <16> I am just waiting for that computer buzzing to be <17> turned off, Sir. <18> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, right. <19> MR MENON: "I was not given any police protection during <20> the Magistrates' Court hearing, but I was during the <21> Old Bailey hearing. <22> "During that hearing I stayed at four different <23> hotels. They were not very nice. It was with <24> different officers each time except one set of officers <25> may have stayed two nights. On one of the occasions

. P-5081 < 1> one of the officers who had arrested me for the < 2> demonstration, I think it was DC Dougal, was there. < 3> "On another night I was taken to an Eltham hotel. < 4> The police did not explain why they chose Eltham. It < 5> was the worst area of London they could have chosen. < 6> It felt like they took me to Eltham to break my < 7> spirit. I didn't sleep that night, because I was < 8> frightened to be in my room. I spent the night < 9> downstairs watching television, scared. The next day <10> weak and tired, I had to give my evidence in Court. <11> "I think of Steve every day. I am sad for his <12> other friends and his family. I'm sad, confused and <13> pissed about this system where racists attack and go <14> free but innocent victims like Steve and I are treated <15> as criminals and at the outset ignored me when I <16> pointed out where the killers had run to and refused to <17> believe me that it was a racist attack. <18> "Steve and I were young black men. Racist thugs <19> killed Steve and shattered my life." <20> That concludes the first part of Duwayne Brooks' <21> statement and may we have a break at this stage, <22> please? <23> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, I think that is a sensible thing to <24> do, certainly. You and he wish that, do you? <25> MR MENON: Yes.

. P-5082 < 1> THE CHAIRMAN: We will break now for the quarter of an < 2> hour and for the shorthand writers benefit too until < 3> 11.20. < 4> <(Short Adjournment) < 5> THE CHAIRMAN: Do sit down, thank you very much. < 6> MR MENON: Sorry, sir. < 7> THE CHAIRMAN: No, do not worry, Mr Menon. Take your < 8> time. Can we now go on to the supplementary statement; < 9> is that right? <10> MR MENON: Yes. <11> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, thank you very much. <12> MR MENON: This is the second part of Duwayne Brooks' <13> statement signed and dated 5th May 1998. The first <14> heading is "the murder" which starts as follows: <15> "I refer to the statements I gave to the police <16> about the murder. They are accurate. <17> "What I said on the night of the murder to <18> DC Cooper was correct, save that I thought Steve had <19> been hit not stabbed. <20> "It was not until later that I remembered one of <21> the boys chasing me. I gave DS Bevan a statement about <22> this on 23rd September 1993. <23> "I had gaps in my memory. I wanted to remember <24> everything. I couldn't. I didn't know how to. <25> "I have been asked if anyone from the police tried

. P-5083 < 1> to help me understand what was going on or reassure me < 2> or suggest that I saw someone to help me. They didn't. < 3> "I know some witnesses say I was actually touched < 4> by the attackers. I wasn't. < 5> "I am told that a policeman has given his view < 6> that Steve was goaded into 'standing his ground when he < 7> heard the boys shout, 'what, what, nigger?' He is < 8> wrong. I never knew Steve to fight no-one. Steve < 9> wasn't used to the outside world. He wasn't street <10> aware of the dangers of being in a racist area at <11> night-time. I shouted to run. He had ample time to <12> run as the boys were on the other side of the road. <13> For the time it took the boys to run across the road he <14> hadn't moved. Steve didn't understand that the group <15> of white boys was dangerous or that anything would have <16> happened. <17> The next heading is: <18> "Helping the Police: <19> "I wanted to try and remember everything for the <20> police and help them in their inquiries and do <21> everything they wanted to help their case. <22> "It was hard remembering everything and talking <23> about the murder whenever they wanted me to. I dreaded <24> it everyday when I woke up that I would have to be <25> talking to the police again.

. P-5084 < 1> "I made 9 statements, went on 3 identification < 2> parades, went to the Magistrates' Court, Crown Court < 3> and the Inquest on several occasions and I kept meeting < 4> the police when they asked me to. < 5> "It was hard when they treated me like they didn't < 6> believe me and when they treated me with attitude and < 7> they didn't seem to care for my safety. < 8> "I remember DS Bevan asking me for a photograph of < 9> myself. It made me anxious. He didn't explain why he <10> needed it. He said it was for 'police purposes'. I <11> said no. I didn't see the point of having a picture of <12> me and I was frightened it would be misused by police <13> even though I trusted Bevan more than the others. <14> "DS Bevan got upset about this. He got upset a <15> lot if I couldn't remember something or if I didn't <16> want to talk about something. DS Bevan kept saying to <17> me: 'What are you hiding?' I told him: 'I'm not <18> hiding nothing'. <19> "The main policeman I saw was DS Bevan. He <20> sometimes had a woman with him. The other policemen I <21> saw were DC Tomlin and his partners, one I think was <22> called Bull or Bullock. <23> "DS Bevan contacted me through my mother. She <24> arranged this. I remember my mum complaining to him <25> that I shouldn't be harassed by the police.

. P-5085 < 1> "DC Tomlin treated me in a funny way. He was < 2> awkward with me. He had an attitude problem which came < 3> over when he spoke to me. < 4> "I felt he was trying to trick me at first. Later < 5> I just didn't know. I didn't like him. I didn't < 6> really trust him." < 7> The next heading is: < 8> "My address: < 9> "The police knew my address and phone number of my <10> mother. They had taken me to my address and been there <11> themselves. <12> "I moved from the address I had been in February <13> 1993 to another address, and the police knew that <14> address too. <15> "The only address I did not want them to have is <16> my girlfriend's address. I spent quite a lot of time <17> with her. I was frightened for her and for my safety. <18> "But I eventually showed DC Tomlin where she <19> lived. He told me he would keep it a secret. <20> "But he broke that promise. It was him or other <21> officers who came to my girlfriend's address at 6 am <22> one morning to arrest me for the Croydon incident. <23> Luckily, I wasn't there. But I was fuming that he had <24> broken that promise and frightened because I didn't <25> know who else he had told."

. P-5086 < 1> The next heading is: < 2> "The identification parades: < 3> "The first identification parade, May 7th 1993: < 4> "I was picked up from college at about 5 pm in an < 5> unmarked police car by an officer who was many plain < 6> clothes. It took about 20 minutes to get to the < 7> police station. We drove around the back and were < 8> taken upstairs into a room with chairs going round the < 9> side and a window onto the side where the van drives <10> in. No-one else was in the room with me except the <11> officer. I was there for about 4 hours. Even the <12> officer kept leaving after a while. <13> "We were told to help ourself from the fridge <14> which had canned drinks in it. We were not offered tea <15> or coffee. <16> "I was nervous, it was the first time I had done <17> anything like this. I started getting pissed off, ie <18> angry, after about an hour of waiting. I was fed up. <19> The officer that brought me kept coming in and out, he <20> was getting fed up at the length of time he had to wait <21> as well. <22> "I don't recall trying to identify anyone on the <23> first occasion. I believed that the parade was <24> cancelled until I was told that the records showed <25> otherwise.

. P-5087 < 1> "I note that the records state that I went round < 2> the parade and did not pick out the suspect < 3> Jamie Acourt. I note that this was at 9.24 pm. I see < 4> that Jo Shepherd is said not to have picked him out as < 5> well. < 6> "I remember calling Imran on the police's phone. < 7> I wanted him there. I just wanted someone there with < 8> me because I was nervous. I wanted someone to explain < 9> to me the procedure. All I was told by officers was <10> that I would be taken downstairs and I had to make sure <11> I walked down the aisle twice and pick out a person who <12> fitted the question they put to me. <13> "On none of the parades was it made clear to me <14> that I could take my time or ask for people on the <15> parade to speak or move about. <16> "The officer took me home. I wasn't told the <17> outcome of the parade." <18> The next heading is: <19> "The second day of the identification parades on <20> 13th May 1993: <21> "I was taken to this parade from the hostel in a <22> police mini bus. I got in the bus and I saw a <23> 'skinhead' there and a number of white boys. I was <24> frightened until we started talking and then it became <25> clear they were other witnesses. One of the officers

. P-5088 < 1> said you shouldn't be discussing anything in the van. < 2> The 'skinhead' turned out to be Stacey Benefield. It < 3> was the first time I had met him. < 4> "I waited for this parade with other witnesses. < 5> This was arranged by the police. Roy Westbrook was < 6> also there, and a woman who saw a stabbing at a Wimpy < 7> Bar. As far as I can remember police officers came in < 8> and out of the room. We chatted about what had < 9> happened to each of us. <10> "I was nervous and pacing. I might have been <11> asking lots of questions. I didn't go through any <12> papers. I can't remember speaking to anyone on the <13> phone, but it's possible that I did. <14> "Stacey Benefield said that the boys who stabbed <15> him were known to stab people and not to get done for <16> it, he said they knew people in the police. <17> "I recall picking out one person on that parade. <18> I remember very little of that day. <19> "I now know that the person I picked out was <20> Neil Acourt and I did not pick out Gary Dobson or <21> Dave Norris. <22> "As far as I can remember everyone was getting <23> nervous and pissed that it was taking so long. <24> "I see from the records that I looked at the <25> parade with Gary Dobson in at about 2.25, the one with

. P-5089 < 1> Neil Acourt in at about 3.56 and the one with < 2> Dave Norris in at about 5.27. < 3> "I then had to wait for Stacey Benefield to finish < 4> and we were taken back in the van together. < 5> "Stacey Benefield said something like he knew the < 6> people who had attacked him. The one he just picked < 7> out was obvious anyhow because he looked like he had < 8> spent the night in a cell and he was wearing something < 9> like tracksuit bottoms. I don't recall seeing anyone <10> myself in tracksuit bottoms." <11> The next heading is: <12> "The third identification parade on 3rd June 1993: <13> "I was collected and taken to one police station <14> and then after not too long, to this parade at <15> Southwark by Sergeant Crowley and taken back again <16> afterwards. I did not have to wait at Southwark. I <17> made a statement to Sergeant Crowley about the <18> identification. The conversation as set out in my <19> statement to DC Doyle as far as Sergeant Crowley <20> talking about them next door took place at that time. <21> I now know I identified Luke Knight on the parade. <22> "That evening two police officers came round to my <23> house and told me that Sergeant Crowley had made <24> serious allegations against me and that I needed to <25> make a statement. They didn't give me much detail but

. P-5090 < 1> they said Sergeant Crowley had said certain things to < 2> do with what happened today. I was wondering what < 3> now? I knew I hadn't done anything wrong and as the < 4> police said that the allegations were serious I wanted < 5> to have someone there when I spoke to the police again < 6> so they wouldn't make anything up. They wouldn't leave < 7> and in the end I had to shut the door in their faces. < 8> The last thing one of them said was make sure your < 9> solicitor is here tomorrow because if you don't make a <10> statement we are going to have to arrest you. <11> "I rang Imran who said he would send someone but <12> he didn't, so I agreed to make a statement in front of <13> the supervisor of the hostel when they came back the <14> next day. <15> "I see that there are two statements from me both <16> dated 4th June 1993. I don't remember signing two <17> separate statements on the same day, but I did make <18> both of those statements. The statements are accurate <19> insofar as they go but bits are left out. <20> "The policeman told me what Sergeant Crowley had <21> said about me - basically that I was guessing. I was <22> pissed off and said that he was a liar. The policeman <23> told me that he was a respected officer and I should <24> have more respect for him and say that Sergeant Crowley <25> had misunderstood what I had said. I wanted to put

. P-5091 < 1> down that he was a liar but the officer would not write < 2> that down, so I agreed that Sergeant Crowley had < 3> misunderstood me. < 4> "On one stretch of road by Greenwich Park about 4 < 5> minutes from home Sergeant Crowley said something to < 6> the effect that I was guessing. I got angry. We had < 7> an argument along the lines of the rest of my statement < 8> to DC Doyle. I got out of the car at home and told him < 9> to fuck off. I don't remember whether I told the <10> officer this bit as he wouldn't let me say <11> Sergeant Crowley was lying. <12> "The policeman went through Sergeant Crowley's <13> statement and I told them my version. <14> "I want to know why Sergeant Crowley said those <15> things about me. <16> "The statements I made about both identifications <17> made at the identification parades are correct. I <18> remain sure that the people I picked out took part in <19> the attack. I recognised the attackers from the attack <20> and not from any outside information. The men on the <21> parades looked quite similar to each other. <22> "Nobody described the Acourt brothers to me. <23> There was a rumour that they had black hair but someone <24> else said that they didn't, so I didn't pay any <25> attention. I never heard anyone say anything else

. P-5092 < 1> about what they looked like. < 2> "I made my identifications on what I remembered. < 3> It's not true that I relied on any descriptions given < 4> to me by my friends or anyone else. None were. < 5> "I was never shown any statements by the police. < 6> "I did not tell Imran that I had been." < 7> The next heading is: < 8> "Other things that came up with the police: < 9> "The police kept asking me whether I recognised <10> any of the boys from football, the officers included <11> DC Tomlin and I think his friend Bullock. They drove <12> me around Samuel Montague ground to see if it jogged my <13> memory. There wasn't a match playing. They then drove <14> me around the streets to see if I could spot anyone. I <15> didn't. <16> "Sergeant Bevan asked me if Steve and I went into <17> a kebab shop on the night of the murder. He told me <18> they had found half a kebab at the scene. I didn't see <19> any kebab. <20> "At the same time he asked me whether we had <21> harassed any white girls at McDonalds as they had had <22> reports of black boys doing that. I said no because we <23> hadn't done. Sergeant Bevan said that 'we' couldn't <24> believe that we had got attacked just like that for <25> nothing and that they were looking for motives. He

. P-5093 < 1> said that officers above him didn't believe me that it < 2> was purely a racist attack. There is a McDonald's that < 3> we went past in Eltham but we didn't go into it. < 4> "It was about this time I started getting pissed < 5> with DC Bevan. It was like they were looking for < 6> excuses. < 7> "Later DC Tomlin and his partner asked me about < 8> Peter Musoke. DC Tomlin alleged Peter had something to < 9> do with it. I can remember when or where they told me <10> that. I told them that Peter had nothing to do with <11> it. I thought that they were trying to make out it was <12> a black on black attack. I said 'why are you bringing <13> him up, he wasn't there?' All they said was that they <14> had heard rumours he was involved but wouldn't say any <15> more. I thought the officers just didn't want to <16> believe me. <17> "I was frightened of the boys and I didn't trust <18> most of the police. I didn't feel safe on a daily <19> basis. <20> The next heading is Crown Prosecution Discontinue <21> of the case. <22> "Crown Prosecution discontinue the case: <23> "I did not know how important Sergeant Crowley's <24> lies were until I hear it on the news that the two men <25> who had been arrested had been released and it was to

. P-5094 < 1> do with my evidence not being good enough. < 2> "I was upset. The police didn't explain it to me < 3> million after I had heard it on the news. < 4> "I felt that the boys had only been arrested to < 5> make the police look good, because people were making < 6> their voices heard about pressure on the police." < 7> The next heading is Noel Penstone. < 8> "Noel Penstone: < 9> "In about August 1993 I met Noel Penstone from the <10> Council. He tried to help me. He arranged for me to <11> see someone call Eric who was a social or a youth <12> worker to give me support and I saw him quite a bit. <13> The police had nothing to do with that." <14> The next heading is ongoing fear. <15> "Ongoing Fear: <16> "I saw men I recognised as the murderers once when <17> I was going to visit my cousin and once when I was <18> going to play pool with Heenan Bhatti. I was <19> frightened. <20> "I did not call the police at the time about the <21> Greenwich incident because I was frightened my identity <22> would be revealed, DS Bevan going into one about how I <23> didn't tell the police earlier about this. I gave him <24> a statement on 9th December about it. I have no <25> changes to make to the statement he took."

. P-5095 < 1> The next heading is appearances at the Magistrates < 2> and Crown Court. < 3> "Appearances at the Magistrates and Crown Court: < 4> "I remember I felt that I had not prepared and I < 5> was unsupported. I was frightened of the atmosphere. < 6> "I was frightened for me. Another witness was < 7> allowed to be anonymous and I wasn't. I wanted to know < 8> why. They feared for him or her and not for me. < 9> "I remember at the Magistrates' Court going <10> straight into the Court and Mr Lawrence had a nose <11> bleed and there was a break and I had to come out and I <12> was told that the parents of the boys who were the <13> defendants were in the room where I should have waited, <14> so I had to wait on the landing. <15> "I remember some of the questions jarring on me -- <16> like what clothes did Stephen wear? Everyone knew the <17> answer to those questions. I remember thinking I got <18> on the Magistrate's nerves. <19> "I remember at the Crown Court wanting to see my <20> statement and one of the boy's barristers laughing and <21> saying: 'Hasn't he seen his statement?' . <22> "I remember going out of the Court so I could read <23> my statements and saying I wasn't going back in that <24> day. <25> "I felt everything was depending on me and I was

. P-5096 < 1> going in blindfold. < 2> "I was alone on a big ship full of pirates. The < 3> pirates had me trapped. Mr Kamlish told me that the < 4> case was going to be dropped. I said: 'Why?' He said < 5> because the judge wouldn't allow my evidence to go to < 6> the jury. < 7> "I felt upset. I felt guilty that I wasn't able < 8> to give my evidence properly." < 9> That completes the second part of Duwayne Brooks <10> statement to this Inquiry. <11> MR MENON: Sir, at this stage, I propose to read four of <12> the original statements that Duwayne Brooks has <13> referred to in this second statement. It was felt that <14> it was better to do it that way than to include in <15> total the contents of each of those statements at the <16> relevant parts of the statement that I have just read. <17> THE CHAIRMAN: I do not think that that is necessary, <18> because those are all available, of course, and have <19> been referred to already. So you can take it, of <20> course, that each one of those will be considered in <21> all the detail that is necessary by the Inquiry, <22> Mr Menon. <23> MR MENON: Sir, there are a great number of documents in <24> this case and, of course, you and your advisers can <25> refer to any of them, but we believe it is important,

. P-5097 < 1> as this is a public inquiry, that the public hear what < 2> Duwayne Brooks told---- < 3> THE CHAIRMAN: You did not give any warning of this. < 4> Could you tell me which ones you are referring to? < 5> MR MENON: It is highlighted in his statement where he < 6> refers himself to earlier statements. < 7> The four statements that I would like to read < 8> are: Firstly, his initial statement to DC Cooper on < 9> 24th April, 1993; secondly, his statement on 4th June, <10> 1993, where he answers ---- <11> THE CHAIRMAN: All right. Do start to read them. <12> MR MENON: I am grateful. <13> This is the statement of Duwayne Brooks taken by <14> DC Cooper on 23rd April 1993. It reads as follows: <15> "I have lived at the address supplied to police <16> since November 1992. I lived there alone. Prior to <17> this I have lived mainly in the Lewisham area in <18> bedsits and hostels in Lewisham, Deptford and Catford <19> after having left home when I was 16. <20> "When I was about 9 years of age my parents <21> separated and I lived with my mother Shirley and my <22> younger brother Daniel and my younger sister Sian <23> initially in Deptford. <24> "At this time I attended Grinling Gibbons Primary <25> School in Clyde Street, Deptford. We stayed in Deptford

. P-5098 < 1> and when I was 11 years of age I moved on to secondary < 2> school and attended Blackheath Bluecoats, Church of < 3> England School, Old Dover Road, Blackheath. < 4> "I recall that on my first day at this new school < 5> I met Stephen Lawrence. He was in the same class as me < 6> at the school. We got on very well and became good < 7> friends. < 8> "Stephen has always lived with his parents in < 9> Llanover Road, Woolich Common, SE 18 and has also got a <10> younger brother and sister. His brother is called <11> Stuart and is now about 15 years of age, I don't know <12> his sisters name. <13> "Over the years since I have known Stephen we have <14> become what I would say is best friends. We always <15> went around with each other at school and spent a lot <16> of time together out of school hours during the weekday <17> evenings and at weekends. We were both interested in <18> sport and music and more recently computers and <19> computer games. <20> "Stephen would often come over to my house and <21> sometimes spend the night. He was a well liked person <22> by everyone at school and by my family. <23> "I left Bluecoat School when I was 16 after taking <24> my GCSEs exams. Stephen stayed on at the school in the <25> 6th form and was starting to take A levels exams this

. P-5099 < 1> summer. < 2> MR MENON: Sorry, I will slow down. < 3> "I moved on to the Woolwich College, Woolich Road, < 4> Charlton where I started a B-tech course in electrical < 5> engineering. However, I couldn't attend some of the < 6> classes because I had moved about so much recently and < 7> I gave the course up after a year. < 8> "I have settled now and have recently started < 9> another course in electronic servicing at Lewisham <10> College, Lewisham Way, Lewisham. <11> "During the time I left Bluecoats School up until <12> now I have kept in regular touch with Stephen and we <13> still see each other most days. I often meet him after <14> he finishes school or at lunchtime depending whether or <15> not I am at college. <16> "For me Thursday is my day off as I have no <17> lectures or classes to attend. Yesterday, Thursday <18> 22nd April, 1993 was no exception and as is my normal <19> practice I went down to see Stephen during his lunch <20> break at Bluecoat School. I met him at the school <21> gates at about 12.40, this was by prior arrangement <22> made when I saw Stephen the previous day. <23> "The two of us then walked down from <24> Old Dover Road to the Blackheath standard where we went <25> to the chip shop at the top of Westcombe Hill near to

. P-5100 < 1> the post office. We didn't buy any food there but we < 2> played on the video game. We didn't see anyone else < 3> there that we recognised. < 4> "We had arranged to meet some girls from Joan Roan < 5> School in Blackheath so after finishing the video game < 6> we walked towards the school. I don't know the name of < 7> the road we walked in to to see if we could see the < 8> girls that were meant to be meeting us at the chip < 9> shop. It got to about 1.00 in the afternoon and we <10> didn't see the girls at all. So we decided that they <11> mustn't be coming to go back to Bluecoat School. <12> "Stephen and I talked at the school gates for <13> 5 minutes or so and he went back into the school at <14> about 1.20 in the afternoon to go back to his class. <15> "I had arranged with Stephen to meet him at the <16> school gates at 3.10 when he finished school for the <17> day. He had decided that we were going to go down to <18> Lewisham to the Riverdale Centre to see who was <19> around. As arranged I met Stephen at Bluecoat School <20> and we caught a bus to Lewisham. <21> "Stephen's cousin Carina and her friend Zerin came <22> with us together with another boy who is a relation of <23> my friend Leon. <24> "The bus we caught did not go all of the way to <25> Lewisham and we had to change at Blackheath Village and

. P-5101 < 1> got another bus, a route 54, to complete the journey. < 2> We must have arrived at Lewisham at about 4.00 and we < 3> went direct into the Riverdale Centre. Zerin had < 4> stayed on the bus from the school and Carina stayed on < 5> the second bus so Stephen, myself and Leon's relation < 6> went to the centre. < 7> "We walked around for some time, spoke to a few < 8> people that we knew. We met up with Leon and his < 9> relation, whose name I don't know, went off with him <10> and Stephen and I decided that we were going to catch a <11> bus to Grove Park. We also met a girl called Anne who <12> lives in Grove Park and I haven't seen her for some <13> time, and the three of us travelled together. <14> "We caught the bus and got off at Grove Park train <15> station. It would have been around 5.45. Stephen and <16> I discussed visiting his uncle who lives on the <17> Chinbrook Estate. I don't know the exact address. His <18> uncle is called Martin Lyndell and he lives with his <19> girlfriend Millie. <20> "At this point Stephen and I split and he went <21> directly to his uncle's house. I walked with Anne part <22> of the way to her house, which is somewhere off <23> Downham Way. I had arranged with Stephen that I was <24> going to meet him later at his uncles. I told him that <25> I wasn't going to be long.

. P-5102 < 1> "After leaving Anne I actually caught a bus to < 2> Chinbrook and walked along to Stephen's uncle's house. < 3> I would have arrived there at roughly 6.30. < 4> "Martin, Stephen and I chatted and played some < 5> computer games. We stayed at the address until about < 6> 10.00 when Stephen and I left and walked to the bus < 7> stop in Dunkery Road, close by, to catch a bus home. < 8> "Nobody else was with us. We caught a route < 9> 126 bus at about 10.05 from the bus stop, which is the <10> first stop after the junction with Dunkery Road with <11> Marbles Lane. The bus was a single decker and I think <12> there were only five other people on it. We travelled <13> to Eltham High Street on this bus and got off it <14> outside McDonalds or just a bit further up the road <15> then. I remember looking at my watch and it was <16> 10.15. <17> "We walked around the corner, passed McDonalds and <18> into Well Hall Road where we waited at the bus stop <19> outside Eltham Police Station for a route 161 bus that <20> would have taken us to Woolwich. I don't recall that <21> there were any other persons at this bus stop but I <22> remember there was a man standing a little bit further <23> up the road. <24> "We had only been waiting at the stop for a couple <25> of minutes when we decided to walk down to Well Hall

. P-5103 < 1> roundabout where there would be a better selection of < 2> buses to catch. We began walking down Well Hall Road. < 3> We were about halfway to the Eltham British Rail < 4> Station when I saw a bus coming behind us. It was a < 5> route 286 that would have taken us to < 6> Blackheath Standard where we could both have got on a < 7> route 53 to take me to Charlton and Stephen on to < 8> Woolwich. < 9> "I told Stephen about the bus and we ran to the <10> next stop outside -- opposite Eltham station. The bus <11> actually overtook us as we ran but there was a woman at <12> the bus stop who flagged the bus down and as we got <13> there she was talking to the driver. <14> "I remember her asking the driver how she could <15> get to Shooter's Hill Police Station by bus. The woman <16> was speaking with a foreign accent, possibly French or <17> Spanish. Eventually the bus driver told her to get on <18> his bus and that he would show her where to get off to <19> continue her journey to Shooters Hill Police Station. <20> "I would describe the woman as being white <21> European, she was short and had long dark hair that was <22> wavy. I got the impression she might have been a <23> student and aged about 20 years. She was slim and <24> dressed in a white shirt, dark jacket and dark coloured <25> skirt or trousers, I am not too sure which. She was

. P-5104 < 1> carrying a shoulder bag. I don't think she was having < 2> any difficulty understanding the driver. She was the < 3> only person at the bus stop. < 4> "The route 286 was a single decked bus and there < 5> were about five other people on it. Stephen and I sat < 6> close to the back on the left-hand side of the bus. < 7> During the journey down Well Hall Road Stephen told me < 8> that he wanted to go home more directly than going to < 9> the Standard and we decided to get off the bus at the <10> Well Hall roundabout outside the cinema. I forgot to <11> mention that the woman stood up on the bus close to the <12> driver. <13> "From the roundabout we could catch a 161 or 122 <14> that would go directly to Woolwich. We got off the bus <15> at the cinema. A male passenger also got off. The bus <16> pulled away and stopped right at the junction with the <17> roundabout, about 25 to 30 yards from where it had <18> stopped for us and I saw the woman get off the bus. <19> "Stephen and I walked up to the roundabout and <20> directly across the middle of it and into the <21> continuation of Well Hall Road. We walked on the <22> left-hand side of the road as you face towards <23> Woolwich. We walked past the junction with the first <24> road on the left, which I now know to be called <25> Dickson Road, and onto the first bus stop you go to on

. P-5105 < 1> the left which is about halfway from Dickson Road to < 2> the next road on the left. < 3> "Already at this bus stop was the foreign sounding < 4> woman and the man who had got off the bus at the same < 5> stop as us. I would not really been able to describe < 6> the man very well, but he was white, in his 30s, about < 7> my height or a bit shorter. He was slim and had short < 8> dark brown hair. He was wearing a black jacket and < 9> dark coloured trousers and shoes. <10> "The jacket he was wearing was a thin cotton type <11> which had a zip-up front. It was waist length. <12> Stephen and I waited at the bus stop and we chatted <13> between ourselves. We had got to the bus stop at <14> 10.25. I remember this because I looked at my watch <15> again. At about 10.30 I remember somebody else <16> stopping at the bus stop. He was white, about 18 years <17> of age, 5 foot 10 inches tall, slim built. He had <18> blond hair which was short and over his ears. It was <19> spiky on type and wavy at the sides. He seemed to have <20> acne or shaving bumps on his face but seemed to be <21> clean shaven. I didn't really take any notice of what <22> he was wearing. <23> "The bus seemed to be taking a long time and I <24> remember looking at my watch again. It was 10.37 or <25> maybe 10.38. I discussed with Stephen if it would be

. P-5106 < 1> better to stick to our original plan and go back to the < 2> roundabout and get a 286 to the Standard. We decided < 3> to walk back towards the roundabout to see if any buses < 4> were coming. The man, woman and youth stayed at the < 5> bus stop. We walked down towards the roundabout. < 6> Stephen was some distance behind me as I went ahead < 7> alone to look. As I crossed back over Dickson Road I < 8> saw a 286 stopped in the distance at the bus stop by < 9> Kidbrooke Lane. At the same time I noticed a group of <10> youths crossing over the road to my left and actually <11> crossing the Rochester Way. I remember that at this <12> point I had made a mental note of how many of them <13> there were, six. This is because I wondered what they <14> were doing. I looked back and Stephen was about 8 to <15> 10 yards behind me. I shouted: 'Can you see the bus'? <16> He did not reply. I turned around to see if the bus <17> was any closer to the cinema stop. I noticed the group <18> of six youths who were on the opposite side of the <19> road, Well Hall Road, by the zebra crossing. <20> "By this time Stephen had joined me and began to <21> walk closer to the roundabout to see if he could see <22> the bus. I said to Stephen: 'Can you see it?' Stephen <23> did not reply as immediately I heard a voice from my <24> left-hand side shout: 'What, what nigger?' <25> "I turned to my left and saw the group of youths

. P-5107 < 1> who were crossing the road. The one that was in front < 2> was staring at me. I got the impression that he was < 3> the one that had shouted. Stephen was about 8 yards in < 4> front of me and I shouted to him: 'Run, run', because < 5> I felt threatened by the menacing comment and the < 6> presence of the group of youths. < 7> "I started running back towards Shooter's Hill. I < 8> had only taken 4 or 5 paces when I turned back to see < 9> if Stephen was with me. Stephen had not moved from <10> where he was originally standing and the group of six <11> youths were next to him. I would describe them as <12> having converged on him. The one who was at the front <13> initially reached into his jacket and took an object <14> out. I was about 12 yards away from them and had a <15> clear view of the group and Stephen. I saw the youth <16> raise his arm , his right arm in the air and I could <17> see the object in his hand. It was of a similar size <18> to a rounders bat and could have been made of wood or <19> steel. I seemed to focus on this man alone. I can't <20> remember what the rest of this group were doing at this <21> point. He raised his hand over his own head and I saw <22> him strike a below towards Stephen's head. I'm not <23> sure where the blow landed bus I heard Stephen scream <24> as though he was in pain. <25> "I saw Stephen fall to the ground and I started to

. P-5108 < 1> run back towards him. As I did this the group of < 2> youths started running down Dickson Road away from < 3> Well Hall Road. I don't remember seeing anyone else in < 4> the area. < 5> "As I ran towards Stephen and towards where he was < 6> on the floor in the middle of Dickson Road and close to < 7> the junction of Well Hall Road, Stephen jumped up and < 8> began to run across the road. I followed him across < 9> the road and on to the opposite pavement of Well <10> Hall Road. Stephen said: 'Duwayne', and I said: <11> 'Just run'. <12> "We began running up Well Hall Road towards <13> Shooter's Hill on the right hand pavement. I sensed <14> that Stephen wasn't keeping up with me and I heard him <15> call again: 'Duwayne, look at me. Tell me what is <16> wrong'. I looked back and saw blood on his jacket. It <17> seemed to be pumping out from somewhere and absorbing <18> into his jacket. I said to him: 'Just keep running', <19> and he said: 'I can't. I can't'. Stephen collapsed on <20> the floor. We were opposite a junction on the other <21> side of the road, the road I know now is <22> Arbroath Road. We had run past the bus stop we were <23> originally standing at albeit on the opposite side of <24> the road. I didn't notice if the three people were <25> still there. I ran across the road where there was a

. P-5109 < 1> telephone box, a phone card box, I dialled 999 and put < 2> the phone down on the shelf in the kiosk and opened the < 3> door and looked out to see if the group were coming < 4> back. It was clear and I couldn't see the group of < 5> youths. < 6> "I did see a man and a woman walk past towards < 7> Well Hall. I asked them if they could help as my < 8> friend had been injured or he had collapsed. They just < 9> looked at me and didn't say a word and then carried on <10> walking. I went back into the phone box, picked the <11> handset up and spoke to the operator. I asked for an <12> ambulance and was put through. <13> "I told the person who had happened and was asked <14> for the location of the incident. I tried to give the <15> person the address that was printed on a card in the <16> phone box but I think it was wrong. I seemed to <17> remember the postcode saying 'SE26'. I got frustrated <18> with the woman as she kept asking me where I was and I <19> eventually slammed the phone down on the shelf. I ran <20> out of the kiosk and tried to stop some passing cars. <21> I remember standing on the road and waving at the cars <22> to stop. I recall trying to stop a Peugeot 205 which <23> was white and driven by a white man with no passengers <24> in the car. He stopped in front of me, stared at me <25> and then drove round and away.

. P-5110 < 1> "After this car had driven away I saw a car that < 2> pulled up across the road next to where Stephen was < 3> lying. I went over to where they were and spoke to the < 4> male that was driving. He asked me if I had phoned for < 5> an ambulance and I told him I had tried. < 6> "The woman who was with the man was crouching on < 7> the floor next to Stephen and I said: 'Is he still < 8> breathing?' Stephen was lying flat out on his front and < 9> the woman had her hand on his back. She said that he <10> was still breathing. The man then went over to the <11> telephone box. The man and woman who I asked for help <12> when I was on the phone earlier walked up to where we <13> were. I didn't speak to them. The man came back from <14> the phone box and said the ambulance was on its way. I <15> remember that I was angry and pacing up and down the <16> pavement. Stephen hadn't said anything at all. I kept <17> asking if he was still breathing the woman said that he <18> was. I remember another man joining us and he had some <19> blankets that he put on Stephen. The police then <20> arrived about 10 minutes after I had told him what had <21> happened. Other police officers came and spoke to all <22> the people who had come to help Stephen. 10 minutes or <23> so later an ambulance arrived and took Stephen away. <24> "I was taken to the Brook Hospital by a police <25> officer and waited in a room. I was later told that

. P-5111 < 1> Stephen had died and went to see him in the room where < 2> he was. < 3> "Of the group of 6 youths I can only really < 4> describe one of them. The one which struck Stephen was < 5> white, about 5 foot 8 inches tall, medium build and < 6> about 18 to 22 years of age. I would describe his hair < 7> as being long, over his ears and it was frizzy and < 8> stuck out at the sides. Most of his hair was down at < 9> the sides and I could clearly see his forehead. He had <10> an oval face. I can't really describe his facial <11> features but I think I could recognise him again from <12> his hair and general look. He spoke with a local <13> accent. He was wearing a grey coloured bomber jacket <14> with a zip-up front. The lining of it was white and I <15> recall that the front may have had a white strip at <16> either side of the zip. I can remember what he was <17> wearing under the jacket. I think he was wearing blue <18> jeans. Of the others, I can only say that they were <19> all white, about the same age and that they were all <20> wearing jeans. <21> "Stephen is 18 years of age, he is black, he is 5 <22> foot 10 inches tall he is medium build. He is normally <23> clean shaven and was tonight. He was wearing his black <24> waist length jacket and I think a pair of corduroy <25> trousers. He was wearing a green and yellow hat.

. P-5112 < 1> "I am 18 years of age, 5 foot 11 inches tall slim < 2> with a medium build. Last night I was wearing a black < 3> string woolly hat with the words 'stay black' on the < 4> front. I had a grey, red, black and white patchwork < 5> jacket with a hood and zip-up front on with a green < 6> shirt underneath. I was wearing a pair of green jeans < 7> with 'BOLL' and the same embroidered on the left side < 8> with bullet holes embroidered on the right leg in < 9> yellow cotton. I was wearing a pair of white and blue <10> Nike air trainers size nine and a half. I am black <11> with West-Indian features. I am willing to give <12> evidence at court. I have been given a form marked <13> with this information A." The reference for that first <14> statement is (PCA00380023). <15> Sir, the second statement I would like to read is <16> Duwayne Brooks' statement 4th June 1993 taken by <17> DC Doel and it reads as follows. The reference is <18> (PCA00380040). <19> "Further to my statements already made by me in <20> connection with the murder of Stephen Lawrence on <21> Thursday, 22nd April 1993 the matter has been brought <22> to my attention which occurred following identification <23> parade held at Southwark Police Station on Thursday, <24> 3rd June 1993. I have been told that a statement has <25> been made by the police officer who escorted me before

. P-5113 < 1> and after the parade had taken place and that the < 2> statement contains things that I said to the officer. < 3> I can say that I was collected from my home address by < 4> a CID officer who said he was a DS. He said that he < 5> didn't know anything about the Inquiry. This was when < 6> we were getting in the car to go to the police station. < 7> "We went to Southwark Police Station via < 8> Rotherhithe Police Station. After the identification < 9> parade had taken place I went to a waiting room. There <10> I was joined by the detective sergeant, came into the <11> room and he said: 'Do you think you have picked the <12> right person?' I said: 'Yes, I have.' He said: 'Well <13> them next door seem to think you have.'. <14> "I did not ask the police officer if I had picked <15> out the right man. I did tell the police officer that <16> I had been told that the Acourt brothers had been <17> responsible for the murder. I said that the man I had <18> just identified was either the brother or the same <19> person who I had previously identified on a parade <20> which took place on 13th May 1993. I then told the <21> officer that I didn't know if I had picked out the <22> right person on the other parades because I hadn't been <23> told. I remember telling the officer about the murder, <24> but I didn't see the actual stabbing and although I <25> could not fully describe the faces of the attackers I

. P-5114 < 1> could describe the size, hair, body shape and shape of < 2> head and that I had made the identifications on the < 3> basis of these characteristics and then the facial < 4> identity having seen them on the identification < 5> parades. < 6> "I did not tell the officer that someone had told < 7> me that I should know the Acourt brothers because they < 8> went to my school. I know that they didn't and < 9> therefore there would be no need for me to mention <10> this. I told the officer about a witness who had <11> attended one of the identification parades and that he <12> had known the person he had identified and had said <13> that it was obvious anyway because the person looked as <14> if he had been if a cell over night and was the only <15> one on the parade wearing tracksuit bottoms. This did <16> not relate to any identifications made by me. I <17> mentioned to the officer that Imran Khan, who is a <18> solicitor, tries to keep me informed of what is <19> happening with the murder investigation. I never told <20> the officer that friends told me descriptions of the <21> people to identify before any parade. I did, however, <22> say that after the parades on 13th May 1993 I had told <23> my friends what the person looked like who I had picked <24> out. They said that it was one of the Acourts from the <25> description I gave them.

. P-5115 < 1> "If the officer has said that I said that I could < 2> not identify Stephen's attackers by their faces, he has < 3> misunderstood what I said, which I have already < 4> explained previously. During the course of general < 5> conversation I said to the officer that I was < 6> anti-police and that I wanted to seek revenge for < 7> Stephen's death myself and also that I had only called < 8> for an ambulance on the night of the murder < 9> and not the police." <10> The third statement, sir, is at (PCA00380043), <11> taken by DS Bevan, dated 23rd September 1993: <12> "On 23rd April, I made a lengthy statement to <13> police in relation to the murder of my friend <14> Stephen Lawrence that had occurred the day before on <15> 22nd April 1993. <16> "I have since been through that statement with <17> Detective Sergeant John Bevan to ascertain whether <18> there is anything that I will need to correct, alter or <19> add. I will firstly say that my recollection now is <20> very similar indeed to my recollection the day after <21> the murder. There are still some gaps that my mind <22> can't piece together. I make the following <23> observations: I say in my original statement that I had <24> made a mental note of how many of them there were, <25> six. I am not now certain there were six but either

. P-5116 < 1> five or six. I watched them cross over the < 2> Rochester Way on the opposite side of the cinema and < 3> then did not pay much attention to them." < 4> DR STONE: A little slower, Mr Menon. < 5> MR MENON: Sorry. "Opposite footway to the cinema and < 6> then did not pay much attention to them. They were < 7> skylarking about. When I said to Stephen: 'Can you see < 8> it?', he may have replied but I didn't hear it. At the < 9> time the youth made the comments: 'What, what nigger?' <10> they were strutting and bouncing off their feet as if <11> in a preamble to a fight. It was definitely a <12> collective aggressive posture, as if with one thought <13> they all ran towards us and the one who was in front is <14> the youth who had spoken. I saw him put his right hand <15> into the left side of his jacket and remove a <16> long-bladed instrument. He had to remove it like he <17> would a sword. It had a blade that was at least 18 <18> inches, only it was straight. I couldn't tell if it <19> was pointed or it was flat. <20> "I couldn't tell its colour or what it was made <21> of. I couldn't see a handle. He ran towards Stephen <22> waving the knife up and down his right side. He <23> reached Stephen who was in the middle of Dickson Road <24> at the junction with Well Hall Road. The youth with <25> the knife struck a blow to the upper part of Stephen's

. P-5117 < 1> body. From my position I cannot estimate the distance < 2> dimensionally. I couldn't see where it connected, but < 3> I believe it to be upwards of his chest. I didn't see < 4> the knife go into Stephen. Stephen immediately < 5> screamed in pain, high pitched and loud. I was running < 6> and jogging back when I saw this happen. < 7> "At this point another youth from the group came < 8> out from behind a tree at the junction and started to < 9> chase me. He was armed with what I believe to be a <10> long pole which he carried in his left hand. I am sure <11> it didn't have a pointed end. It was more chunkier and <12> more round than the other instrument. I am pretty sure <13> it was made of metal. It wasn't tapered and didn't <14> glisten. It seemed to be the colour of a scaffolding <15> bar but not so bulky as one. <16> "I twisted around because I thought I was going to <17> hit the bus stop or something like that. He caught <18> right up close to me. He raised the bar up to hit me. <19> I was looking over my left shoulder. I was thinking of <20> stopping and letting him run into me so he would over <21> balance and fall over, but I didn't. He just stopped <22> of his own accord ran back to where Stephen was trying <23> to get up off the floor. The other youths had already <24> started to run off. The youth that had been chasing me <25> ran past Stephen and hit him on the head with a pole on

. P-5118 < 1> his way past. I didn't hear it connect, but Stephen < 2> was trying to get up and I saw his head quickly drop < 3> when it was hit. He collapsed on the floor. The youth < 4> was still holding the pole in his left hand. < 5> "Stephen started to get up and then ran into the < 6> road. I had stepped out into the road, Well Hall Road, < 7> to see if they were around the corner in Dickson Road. < 8> When I say Stephen ran I mean that he stumbled. He < 9> obviously wasn't in control of all of his bodily <10> movements. He didn't seem to know where he was going <11> but I got the impression he was moving as fast as he <12> could." <13> Finally, sir, the statement of Duwayne Brooks <14> dated 9th December, 1993 taken by DS Bevan again and <15> the reference is PCA00380046. This is an additional <16> statement to the ones I have already made to the <17> police. It is not in relation to the actual murder, <18> but identification of persons there: <19> "During the middle of September 1993 I was <20> travelling on a bus, a 180, I believe, along <21> Trafalgar Road towards Woolwich. I think it was <22> between 4.00 and 5.00 in the afternoon. I was by <23> myself. I was sitting at the back on the left-hand <24> side upstairs. It was a red double-decker, pay the <25> driver type bus. Traffic was heavy and it was

. P-5119 < 1> stop/start all the way along. We were approaching the < 2> crossroad of Trafalgar Road and Vanberg Hill when the < 3> traffic came to a complete halt. < 4> "I got up to see what was wrong, as I heard the < 5> sound of car horns. I looked out at the right-hand < 6> side windows and saw that a car was trying to turn < 7> right into Column and no-one would let it in. I saw < 8> some boys standing outside Star Burger restaurant. I < 9> recognised two of them who had been there when <10> Stephen Lawrence was murdered on 22nd April 1993. They <11> looked very similar as if they were brothers or even <12> twins. It was normal weather, ie not raining or <13> particularly sun any as far as I can remember. I think <14> it was probably overcast. It was still daylight. <15> "It looked like they were rolling a rizzla paper, <16> rolling a cigarette or such like. I cannot be specific <17> in what they were wearing but it was casual clothes. I <18> cannot remember how I described these two in my <19> original statement but they were definitely there when <20> Stephen was killed. <21> "After a short while, I cannot remember how long, <22> the bus pulled off and they were still standing outside <23> the Star Burger, which is on the south footway by <24> Column Street. The reason I didn't call the police or <25> cause them to be alerted is that I didn't want to be

. P-5120 < 1> seen myself. I strongly felt for my safety. Out of < 2> these youths there were only the two that I < 3> recognised. They both had distinctive hair styles, < 4> short and black. I picked one of them out at one of < 5> the identification parades. I cannot remember in < 6> relation to the other youth and identification < 7> parades. Seeing both of these youths together and < 8> looking so alike helped to jog my memory. < 9> "Several weeks later on 6th November, 1993 at <10> about 5.30 I went to the Plough Public House in <11> Lewisham, which is situated under Lewisham Bridge, with <12> Heenan Bhatti from Chrysalis Television. He is making <13> a programme on Stephen Lawrence's murder. We both went <14> up to the bar, he bought two pints of Guiness and we <15> went and sat near the windows adjacent to the <16> entrance. <17> "We decided to go and play pool and as we walked <18> over to the pool table we sat down near the pool table <19> and bar. We started to play doubles with two other <20> people we didn't know. We had three games with them, <21> for one each a game, ie the cost of the table. <22> "Then I was aware two boys walked in, one with <23> black hair and one with blonde hair. I saw them sit <24> down at the bar and then I recognised one of the boys <25> who I had seen outside the Star Burger, ie one of the

. P-5121 < 1> brothers or who appeared to be brothers. They put < 2> their money down for a game. The other youth I didn't < 3> recognise at all. I said to Mr Bhatti: 'You know who < 4> that is, don't you?', meaning the one with black hair. < 5> He said: 'Who?' I said: 'Who do you think it is?' He < 6> said: 'I don't know, tell me, go on, go on, tell me.' < 7> He was nudging me. I played my shot and said something < 8> along the lines of: 'He was one of those who was there < 9> at the murder of my friend.' He said to me: 'You are <10> joking, really?' I said: 'Yeah. Can I beat him up <11> then.' He said: 'No, no let's play pool with them so I <12> can speak to them.' <13> "They came over and we played pool. Heenan spoke <14> to him but I didn't listen. I was getting frustrated. <15> We finished two games. I didn't speak to this <16> individual. Mr Bhatti and I left the pub. We <17> discussed this around the corner and he suggested that <18> I go home. I told him that I was going nowhere. He <19> suggested we go back in the pub, which we did. Outside <20> the pub we saw one of my friends, who I don't wish to <21> name. Mr Bhatti suggested we take him back inside so <22> as not to look suspicious. We went back to the pool <23> table. Heenan bought my friend a drink. I had crisps, <24> I think. <25> "Heenan spoke to the youth I had previously

. P-5122 < 1> identified. In my hearing asked him what his name < 2> was. He appeared to defensive. He looked directly at < 3> me and then at the floor and then he answered: 'Keith'. < 4> "At that point I walked away because I knew he was < 5> lying, because of his manner, plus when his friend < 6> called him it was by another name, not Keith, but I < 7> can't remember what. I can't remember what happened < 8> after that, but we left shortly after. Again, I didn't < 9> want them to know who I was. In the pub he was wearing <10> a black leather jacket and had a cut nose bridge and <11> was or looked the bigger of the two, ie the two who I <12> originally saw at Stephen's murder and then outside the <13> Star Burger. <14> Wthe youth that I saw at the pub in Lewisham was <15> not the same one that I picked out on the <16> identification parade but looked like the brother or <17> twin of the one I identified at that parade. He was <18> definitely one of the two who I had seen outside the <19> Star Burger previously. Also I would like to point out <20> when I was speaking to Heenan in the pub and he said: <21> 'You are joking, really?' I was not joking. I was <22> sure in my mind that the youth had been present when <23> Stephen was killed." <24> Sir, that is all we wish to read on behalf of <25> Mr Brooks.

. P-5123 < 1> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. Duwayne Brooks, there is no need < 2> to stand up. Do sit down. < 3> DUWAYNE BROOKS: It is okay. < 4> THE CHAIRMAN: All right. I and I advisers, and I know < 5> everybody else involved, want to thank you for coming < 6> here to give your statement today, both as a witness < 7> and, of course, as a victim of the racially motivated < 8> crimes against Stephen Lawrence and yourself. That we < 9> do. The only other thing that I ask you to do is to <10> verify the two statements which were read first today, <11> that is the one of 6th April and the 8th May. You <12> signed them both, did you not? <13> DUWAYNE BROOKS: Yes. <14> THE CHAIRMAN: Those were your statements? <15> DUWAYNE BROOKS: Yes. <16> THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. That is the end of <17> your attendance. When you wish you may leave. <18> DUWAYNE BROOKS: Okay. <19> THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming. <20> We have one witness to deal with, have we not. <21> MISS WEEKES: I do, indeed. It is Mr Michael Barley, <22> please. <23> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. Is there an estimate from evidence <24> as to how long it might take? <25> MISS WEEKES: I am hoping we can finish this witness by

. P-5124 < 1> the luncheon adjournment. < 2> MR MANSFIELD: I just want to ask about one matter, the < 3> Grant thing. < 4> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. < 5> THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you for coming, Mr Barley. Would < 8> you be seated. You do not need to lean forward but < 9> speak clearly and as loud as you can so the shorthand <10> writer can get it. <11> MISS WEEKES: Thank you for coming. Could you give me <12> your rank? <13> A. I am a detective inspector. <14> Q. You are employed by the Metropolitan Police within <15> the Directorate of Intelligence at New Scotland Yard? <16> A. Yes, that's correct. <17> Q. You have been in charge, effectively, of the <18> central registration formulation of policy training, <19> advice on informants? <20> A. Yes, that's right, I report directly to the <21> Director of Intelligence. <22> Q. You have been requested to attend here today to <23> give the Inquiry some guidance as to the procedure, <24> policy that is adopted when an informant is registered? <25> A. Yes.

. P-5125 BARLEY < 1> Q. Or when an informant is dealt with, when somebody < 2> wants to become an informant. You have been selected < 3> by the Metropolitan Police as somebody who is capable < 4> and adequate to give that information? < 5> A. Yes. < 6> Q. Can I just ask you this before we begin: in many < 7> cases members of the public who want to give assistance < 8> about crime can be registered as informants? < 9> A. That is the case. There are many ways in which <10> people can give information to police and one of them <11> is by being registered as an informant. <12> Q. The importance of it is that quite often the <13> police have no clue who has committed a crime so <14> informants can be extremely important? <15> A. Yes, they are. <16> Q. Therefore, within the Met a system of dealing with <17> informants had been set up? <18> A. Yes. <19> Q. Before I come to the guidelines which you are <20> going to tell us a little bit about, I know that there <21> are confidential documents which you are aware of, <22> which we do not need to go into today which relate to <23> informants? <24> A. Yes. <25> Q. You have looked at some of the documentation in

. P-5126 BARLEY < 1> this case. You have looked, for example, at some of < 2> the information given by a man called James Grant? < 3> A. Yes, I understand that is a pseudonym that has < 4> been given. < 5> Q. Yes. He has a real name but he is known by the < 6> name of James Grant. This particular man was a very < 7> important person because he was the first individual to < 8> come in, as it were, into the police station on his own < 9> to give information about the murder of <10> Stephen Lawrence? <11> A. I understand. <12> Q. You also looked at statements in respect of what <13> we called handlers of informants, Ashwell, May <14> Chapman. You were able also to look, I believe, at the <15> Police Complaints Authority's summary of what they saw <16> and looked at and their comments about the treatment of <17> the man called James Grant? <18> A. Yes. <19> Q. Can I now turn to what you tell us about the <20> importance of the procedure. I am just going to read <21> from the bottom of your statement. The Inquiry have it <22> and we have read it: <23> "The purpose of the informant handling system is <24> to develop a structured use of informants within an <25> integrated intelligence system. It is intended to

. P-5127 BARLEY < 1> encourage a force standing in the cultivation and < 2> management of informants. Ensure a constant quality of < 3> evaluated information to safeguard officers and to < 4> increase detection rate." < 5> A. Yes. < 6> Q. May I just emphasise, the reason why there is a < 7> policy guideline to be followed when you register an < 8> informant is that officers who look after that < 9> informant and obtain information from them need <10> themselves to be protected? <11> A. Yes, indeed. <12> Q. From criticism, for example, at a later inquiry or <13> at a later trial about what they did or did not do? <14> A. Possibly, yes. <15> Q. Also, if you follow the policy and the procedure <16> it is intended to increase the police ability to get to <17> those who were responsible for committing crime? <18> A. Yes, indeed. <19> Q. I just want to deal, if I can, with a few things <20> on the second page, please, of your statement. An <21> informant handler is the officer who deals directly <22> with the informant and he is usually a constable or <23> sergeant. <24> Further down, and I look, sir, at entry 4: <25> "The detective chief superintendent for the area

. P-5128 BARLEY < 1> or branch will supervise the system on behalf of the < 2> relevant commander and will hold confidential records. < 3> All reports to Deputy Assistant Commissioner SO Crime < 4> will be submitted through the controllers through these < 5> officers." < 6> A. Yes. < 7> Q. Finally 5: "The Deputy Assistant Commissioner is < 8> responsible for the informant management system and < 9> will maintain confidential record in the SO10 branch." <10> A. Yes, that's correct. <11> Q. That is the system as it was in 1993? <12> A. Yes, it is. <13> Q. Can I, sir, go to para 45 of your statement, <14> please. I would like to deal with this: this is the <15> whole question of why it is important for the police to <16> keep accurate records when dealing with someone like <17> Grant. "It is essential to the system that accurate <18> records are maintained. Equally protection of the <19> informant's identity is crucial. Nothing will be <20> retained nor copies made at local level that could lead <21> to the true identity being revealed to anyone except <22> the handler from the controllers"? <23> A. Yes. <24> Q. That is obvious because those who want to help, <25> members of the public that come forward, must be

. P-5129 BARLEY < 1> protected? < 2> A. Yes. < 3> Q. You know that one of the most striking features in < 4> this case was many members of the public did try to < 5> help? < 6> A. Yes, indeed. < 7> Q. I want to move down, if I may, to the informant < 8> profile, just a few things there. < 9> "The informant profile will be completed for each <10> informant. Reliability will be assessed by the <11> handler. The controller will note the source <12> evaluation code on the form which may be adjusted in <13> the light of performance." I do not touch the rest of <14> that paragraph, but I go down to the bottom of your <15> page: "Informant register." <16> A. Yes. <17> Q. "A register of informants will be maintained by <18> both the Controller and the Area Detective Chief <19> Superintendent Branch Commander. These documents will <20> contain the pseudonym only and a sequel number <21> allocated"? <22> A. Yes. <23> Q. "An informant cannot be accepted and used unless <24> registered in this matter"? <25> A. Yes.

. P-5130 BARLEY < 1> Q. Then you now deal with the informant's file. "The < 2> Controller will open a file for each informant under < 3> the Code number and pseudonym." You go through a little < 4> bit of detail about what you expect in each of the < 5> columns? < 6> A. Yes. < 7> Q. Finally this: "Information Report: < 8> "Any meetings or relevant incidents with < 9> registered informants will be the subject of an <10> information report and evaluated in detail in <11> accordance with the 4 by 4 system." <12> A. Yes. <13> Q. No need to go into that. "Reports will be placed <14> in the informant file held by the Controller. The <15> Controller will liaise with the Divisional <16> Informational and Intelligence Unit and Detective Chief <17> Superintendent when necessary in deciding the level of <18> dissemination of use to which the information gleaned <19> is directed. Speed is essential to the process to make <20> the best use of the evaluated intelligence." <21> Having been selected by the Met to help us you <22> were given some documents by the Inquiry team and you <23> were able to look at those documents, were you not? <24> A. Yes. <25> Q. You wrote another statement, in fact that

. P-5131 BARLEY < 1> statement was signed yesterday and you said this: "I < 2> understand that the registered informant documentation < 3> cannot be found. In order to make an assessment I < 4> would need to have access to this file. While there is < 5> other documentation associated with James Grant it does < 6> not deal with his registration as an informant." < 7> We know that you were shown, and I hold this up, < 8> that is the unregistered cover docket. You saw that, < 9> did you not? <10> A. I have just been passed a copy, yes. <11> Q. The Inquiry team handed that to you sometime just <12> before you came in? <13> A. Yes. <14> Q. Can we have it up on the screen, all the parties <15> would have seen this. It is (PCA00450076), please. <16> When you said in that statement yesterday that you <17> understand the documentation cannot be found, is that <18> information given to you by the police that the <19> documentation could be found? <20> A. I understood that this was included in the <21> Kent Report. <22> Q. Right. Was that information that you got from the <23> police that you think you found? <24> A. Yes. <25> Q. What you now see there in front of you, what is

. P-5132 BARLEY < 1> it? < 2> A. This is an unregistered docket which deals with an < 3> application for a reward. This is not an informant < 4> docket. The front cover of an informant docket is a < 5> fundamentally different style and different writing. < 6> Q. So what you have been given is not the < 7> registration file for James Grant? < 8> A. It is not the informant file, no. < 9> Q. So you have not to date seen that file? <10> A. No, I have not. <11> Q. Therefore, you cannot comment about the contents, <12> clearly? <13> A. No, I cannot. <14> Q. If Mr Grant was registered you would expect to <15> have a file? <16> A. There should be a file in existence, yes. <17> Q. I want to finally, if I may, just turn because I <18> think you were able to acquaint yourself with what the <19> Police Complaints Authority said about this matter. <20> Can we have (PCA00500167). That was Kent. You were <21> able to read this, were you? <22> A. Yes, I was. <23> Q. At the bottom of the page, sir. Kent themselves <24> indicated this: "The only documentation relating to <25> James Grant, which was located in the finance of

. P-5133 BARLEY < 1> resource filing systems at Eltham Police Station is on < 2> an unregistered folder containing a report from < 3> Detective Sergeant Davidson requesting a reward from < 4> the informant fund for James Grant." Which is exactly < 5> was you have just seen? < 6> A. Yes, indeed. < 7> Q. It has been established that James Grant was never < 8> registered with the Metropolitan Police as an official < 9> police informant. This meant any meetings and dealings <10> between him and the police were not subject to strict <11> record keeping in line with the National Guidelines on <12> the Use and Management of Informants and Related <13> Issues? <14> A. Yes. <15> Q. It goes back to the point I eluded from your <16> statement about the reasons why there are guidelines, <17> polices and the need to keep strict attendance notes? <18> A. Yes. <19> Q. Because, of course, what the informant tells the <20> police is often absolutely crucial to the potential <21> success of solving the crime? <22> A. Yes, that is a possibility, yes. <23> Q. Officer, I represent Mr and Mrs Lawrence. I am <25> only going to deal with one example and that is the

. P-5134 BARLEY < 1> question of Mr Grant and I want to take you through, if < 2> I may, what should have been done in this case and what < 3> should have resulted in relation to those actions. < 4> Now, could you have in front of you the paragraphs < 5> numbered 45 in your report, some of which you have < 6> already related. I want to deal with a bit more on < 7> that. If you have that in front of you. Also, it is < 8> page (PCA00500164), which is the beginning of the < 9> Kent Report headed "James Grant"? <10> A. Yes, sir. <11> Q. All right? <12> A. Mmm. <13> Q. In this case this individual went to the <14> police station at Eltham, himself, within a few hours <15> of a police appeal and within 24 hours, roughly <16> speaking, of the murder itself he went in on the <17> evening of Friday, 23rd April. Do you see that in <18> paragraph 12.28 and there is no dispute about that? <19> A. Yes, sir. <20> Q. He was seen by a police officer called Detective <21> Constable Budgen and a result of the meeting was <22> entered up as a message which is on (PCA00500165). <23> There is the message. I do not go through it. That <24> was recorded. Now, could we go to (PCA00500166). In <25> paragraph 12.2.12 it is indicated that the following

. P-5135 BARLEY < 1> day, that would now be the 24th April 1993, a Detective < 2> Inspector Bullock told Detective Superintendent < 3> Crampton of this man's visit to the police station and < 4> the content of the message we have just referred to? < 5> A. Yes, sir. < 6> Q. Later on the 24th Detective Sergeant Davidson and < 7> that Constable, Budgen, were directed to contact < 8> James Grant and follow up his information. I < 9> interpose, because it is not there, the evidence <10> suggests that there was a meeting on the 24th between <11> Davidson, Budgen and Grant and it proceeded, in other <12> words it came, just before a meeting at the <13> police station. So, those two officers see him on that <14> day and can I just fill in a little more. The position <15> is at that time that the police were considering <16> registering him as an informant and giving him a false <17> name to protect his cover. Do you follow? <18> A. Yes, sir. <19> Q. I want to pause there before the next meeting on <20> the 27th and go to your report. <21> In relation to the officers in 1993 who should be <22> familiar with the structure, policy and procedures that <23> you have outlined in your report. Should an officer of <24> the rank of Detective Inspector Bullock been aware of <25> the policy, procedure and so on that you set out in

. P-5136 BARLEY < 1> your report? < 2> A. The guidelines from which I have made my report < 3> were certainly available. I am unaware of the < 4> individual training the officer may have received in < 5> relation to this. < 6> Q. Can I go back to the question: would you expect a < 7> Detective Inspector to be aware of the guidelines that < 8> relate to informants in 1993? < 9> A. Yes, sir. I myself as a Detective Inspector in <10> 1993 and I was aware of these guidelines. <11> Q. If a detective inspector has a problem, in other <12> words, he does not remember what they are, they are not <13> difficult to obtain should he want advice? <14> A. They shouldn't have been difficult to obtain, no, <15> sir. I don't know the availability of them but they <16> certainly were in print and available for reference to. <17> Q. We have not got to Detective Inspector Bullock yet <18> but next week probably. The position is that, <19> therefore, the detective inspector, should he be in any <20> doubt, could contact someone else, New Scotland Yard, <21> for example, if he wanted to get a copy of the <22> guidelines? <23> A. Yes, sir. <24> Q. The other two officers concerned in this, one has <25> already been mentioned in this paragraph,

. P-5137 BARLEY < 1> Detective Superintendent Crampton, of a considerable < 2> number of years standing by 1993, you would certainly < 3> expect him to be aware of the policy and procedures in < 4> relation to informants? < 5> A. Yes, sir. < 6> Q. The name we have not come to yet, Detective < 7> Superintendent Weeden, similarly, you would expect him < 8> to be aware of the policy and procedures? < 9> A. Yes, sir. <10> Q. Now, in relation to this particular individual, <11> that is Grant, it appears as though the handler and <12> co- handlers are a detective sergeant and a detective <13> constable, Davidson and Budgen. Do you follow? <14> A. Yes. <15> Q. In addition to the two handlers which you <16> mentioned would have been normal procedure to have two <17> like that, there would be a Controller who keeps it <18> some distance but manages the information? <19> A. Yes, sir. <20> Q. Who would you have expected that to be in this <21> case? <22> A. Controller would be -- at that time in 1993 the <23> Detective Chief Inspector of the local police station. <24> He would be responsible for ensuring that the person is <25> registered and dealing with that relationship.

. P-5138 BARLEY < 1> However, in this particular case, and it would happen < 2> in other instances, it may well be that the control is < 3> passed to the Inspector or the Superintendent, the < 4> operational head of a particular inquiry. If the < 5> information was being given in relation to a specific < 6> incident over which the local Controller is not < 7> particularly involved, control should be passed to the < 8> relevant officer for the duration of that operation. < 9> Q. Right. Just taking that postulation for the <10> moment. If control had been passed to an SIO, a senior <11> investigating officer, and just bear with me for a <12> moment, in this case there were two. One for the first <13> weekend, approximately, and then another one who <14> continued throughout. So, assuming those two, if it <15> has been handed over to those, should there be a record <16> somewhere that the local Detective Chief Inspector has <17> handed over control to the SIO? <18> A. I would expect to see on the informant file a note <19> from the local Controller that for the purposes of this <20> particular inquiry, this particular operation, the <21> control is under whatever the name of the officer is. <22> Q. Right. Now, the local Detective Chief Inspector <23> would be based at Eltham, would he, in this case or <24> somewhere else? <25> A. I understand it is Eltham, sir. My geography of

. P-5139 BARLEY < 1> the area is not very good but I also understand the < 2> officers went to Greenwich Police Station to complete < 3> the forms, so ---- < 4> Q. I am coming to that? < 5> A. Yes. < 6> Q. But it would be possible to obviously identify who < 7> the detective chief inspector in 1993 would have been < 8> for this purpose? < 9> A. Yes, sir. <10> Q. How do you go about -- how would one go about now <11> identifying who that officer was in 1993? <12> A. There must be personnel records held centrally <13> which would tell us who the officer was. <14> Q. I asked generally if we may be told who that was? <15> A. I have no personal knowledge, sir. <16> Q. No, but it is something, subject obviously to the <17> Chair's permission, is it something you could discover <18> for our benefit if it is thought to be relevant? <19> A. Either I or one of the other officers. <20> Q. All right. Well, I ask it and subject to <21> approval. Would the detective chief inspector who <22> hands over control keep a record of that himself and <23> any record of the file himself? <24> A. I would expect him to retain the actual informant <25> file.

. P-5140 BARLEY < 1> Q. So, although he hands over control, he does not < 2> hand over the file; is that the position? < 3> A. Yes, sir. Thereafter, he would take back control, < 4> if you like, of the informant if the informant were to < 5> continue. < 6> Q. Right. So all he is handing over is control. He < 7> is not actually handing over the file? < 8> A. That's right, sir. < 9> Q. Right. Now, just go back, if we may, to <10> (PCA00500166). There are, in fact, I can go through <11> them quickly, further meetings. One of the 27th, <12> between Davidson and Grant? <13> A. Yes, sir. <14> Q. And would you just note that it is in a local <15> public house; do you see that? <16> A. Yes, sir. <17> Q. So, if you just note that. Could we go to <18> (PCA00500167). It is not clear exactly where this <19> meeting took place but, in any event, there is another <20> meeting on 6th May and then there is the reference to <21> going to Greenwich Police Station. Now, can I just <22> pause. That is some of the events. <23> Now, looking at paragraph 4.5 in your report, the <24> first paragraph, the informant profile, with the true <25> identity and so on, that would all be kept by the local

. P-5141 BARLEY < 1> detective chief inspector that we have just dealt with; < 2> is that right? < 3> A. Yes, sir. < 4> Q. However, it will be -- it says here, it will be < 5> forwarded, together with other material, by hand if < 6> necessary, to the area detective chief superintendent < 7> or branch manager; is that the position? < 8> A. That is correct, yes. < 9> Q. So in this case the local detective chief <10> inspector should have a copy of the informant profile, <11> plus other materials? <12> A. Yes, sir. <13> Q. And the area detective chief superintendent should <14> also have a copy? <15> A. The local chief inspector will open a file, recall <16> the pseudonym and then forward the profile with the <17> other material to the local chief superintendent. <18> Q. Right. So ---- <19> A. The local ---- <20> Q. Sorry, I want to get this straight, because there <21> is absolutely, you see, no documentation in this case. <22> So that's why I am going carefully? <23> A. Yes. <24> Q. What should have existed. Therefore, the local <25> inspector would keep what when he hands on the file to

. P-5142 BARLEY < 1> the detective chief superintendent? < 2> A. He should not keep anything. He should create an < 3> informant file, give it a pseudonym and a sequential < 4> number but then pass the profile, which contains the < 5> true identity and the pseudonym, to the local chief < 6> detective superintendent. < 7> Q. In this case, are you able to help us as to who < 8> that would have been in 1993? < 9> A. No, sir, I cannot, I am afraid. <10> Q. It says "all branch commander". Are they <11> synonymous or not? <12> A. Yes, sir, they are. <13> Q. Right. And the profiles -- can I read from this <14> paragraph? <15> A. Yes. <16> Q. "The profiles will be retained in secure <17> conditions on behalf of the area branch commanders." <18> Now, what are the secure conditions that should <19> pertain to these profiles either with a detective <20> inspector or the chief superintendent for the area? <21> What do you expect for that? <22> A. Now I expect profiles to be kept in a secure <23> cabinet with a Mortis lock attached to it. <24> Q. In '93? <25> A. I think this has been around for some years. I

. P-5143 BARLEY < 1> don't know what was expected in 1993, but the emphasis < 2> being on security, I would expect more than it just < 3> being kept in a cupboard or a drawer. < 4> Q. Do all police stations have a safe? < 5> A. Yes, sir, they do. < 6> Q. So it would not be a problem to stick it in the < 7> safe? < 8> A. No, but in some police stations there are a number < 9> of informants and the documentation ---- <10> Q. I see? <11> A. Normally, certainly I found in my experience, <12> controllers tend to use a four-drawer metal filing <13> cabinet for recalling informant files. <14> Q. So a four drawer with a lock? <15> A. Yes, and a metal bar and a Mortis type ---- <16> Q. A metal bar and in an office relating to the <17> officer responsible for keeping it, namely the area <18> detective chief superintendent? <19> A. Yes, sir. <20> Q. It is an office to very few people would have <21> access other than the chief superintendent? <22> A. Yes, sir. <23> Q. Now, that is not quite finished, I am afraid, is <24> it, because according to your report a copy of that <25> profile, which is retained by the chief detective

. P-5144 BARLEY < 1> superintendent for the area, is then sent to New < 2> Scotland Yard? < 3> A. Yes, sir. < 4> Q. That is done in obviously a secure way. You say < 5> secure despatch against receipt? < 6> A. Yes, sir. < 7> Q. That would be done normally in 1993. If it is < 8> going to be passed on it would be done with a police < 9> officer doing it, taking it from one to the other? <10> A. Either by that method, sir, or there is a despatch <11> system, a postal system, within the Metropolitan Police <12> which I suppose can be best described as akin to <13> sending post by registered mail. <14> Q. Right. Now, you give the reasons why that <15> happens. I do not pursue it? <16> A. Yes. <17> Q. So is that the sequence, first of all? <18> A. Yes, sir. <19> Q. When normally does that sequence occur; in other <20> words, detective inspector on to detective chief <21> superintendent on to New Scotland Yard? At what stage <22> does all of that take place? <23> A. When the decision is made to register a person as <24> an informant and assumes thereafter the forms are <25> completed, the process should then continue.

. P-5145 BARLEY < 1> Q. Right. So can we go back to paragraph 12.2.15. < 2> As you point out: < 3> "Davidson and Budgen went to Greenwich on 28th < 4> April, it the week following the murder, concerning < 5> informant profile documentation." < 6> A. Yes, sir. < 7> Q. "And to register him as a police informant." So < 8> just taking that day, would you expect, therefore, the < 9> sequence we have just been through to have been <10> activated on the 20th and, therefore, everything we <11> have been through to start occurring from that date <12> onwards? <13> A. Yes, sir. The documentation, if it was created on <14> that date, should then be forwarded on from there. <15> Q. Unless an officer just has not carried out his <16> duty there can be no explanation for why all of it has <17> disappeared, can there? <18> A. I have no idea, sir. <19> Q. Can I go back to your report. I am not concerned <20> about the pseudonym in this case. There is paragraph <21> 4.5(3) in your report, Informant Register: <22> "A register of informants will be maintained by <23> both the controller", so that is back to the detective <24> inspector again? <25> A. Yes, sir.

. P-5146 BARLEY < 1> Q. So he will have a book, will he, or a loose leaf < 2> file? < 3> A. Something like that. < 4> Q. And that is the thing he will keep once the < 5> profile and the rest of it goes on up the chain? < 6> A. Yes. < 7> Q. He should have a register at the very least of it? < 8> A. Yes, sir. < 9> Q. So that does not exist in this case. The area <10> chief superintendent, who is the next one up the chain, <11> should also have a register? <12> A. Yes. <13> Q. Which he keeps? <14> A. Yes, sir. <15> Q. Over and above all the documentation we have been <16> talking about? <17> A. Yes, sir. <18> Q. That does not exist in this case. They should <19> contain these documents, the pseudonym and a sequential <20> number in cases? <21> A. Yes. <22> Q. I want to turn to paragraph 4, the informant's <23> file, which to some extent we have covered. However, <24> what the controller, namely the detective inspector -- <25> I want to clarify this in this case, but the preface of

. P-5147 BARLEY < 1> the question is this: if the controller, the detective < 2> inspector, has handed over effectively control to an < 3> SIO, who is maintaining the two sides of the log which < 4> is contained in paragraph 4 there? < 5> A. I would expect the handlers when they are reaching < 6> the registered informant to fill out a contact sheet < 7> and that would then go on the informant file. < 8> Q. So if the -- where -- let us take Mr Budgen or < 9> Mr Davidson in their various contacts. There is a <10> difference between them about what happened here. One <11> says a contact sheet; the other says the message system <12> provided it. However, leave aside that for the <13> moment. <14> If they are having meetings where do they go with <15> their contact sheet which they should have filled in? <16> Do they go to the detective inspector or do they go to <17> the SIO with it? <18> A. Initially, they should go to the detective <19> inspector or it should be detective chief inspector, <20> sir, as it was in 1993. <21> Q. Sorry? <22> A. That is a minor point. They should go to the <23> detective chief inspector with that contact sheet in <24> the first instance. It may well be that a message will <25> be generated from it for the purposes of the Inquiry.

. P-5148 BARLEY < 1> It is only for the informant file purposes they should < 2> go to the controller and ensure that is put on the file < 3> ensure that is put on the file. < 4> Q. They have the obligation of doing that, they, the < 5> individual handlers? < 6> A. Yes, sir. < 7> Q. We are led to believe that Detective Sergeant < 8> Davidson has been picked in this case because of his < 9> acumen and expertise so you would expect him to know <10> that that is what he has to do? <11> A. Yes, sir. <12> Q. What, in fact, should be put on the file in <13> relation to meetings, you describe it as two sides, a <14> log of authorised meetings on the left side and on the <15> right side sequential reports of each meeting or <16> contact with the informant? <17> A. Yes, sir. <18> Q. Right. Can I just go forward a moment because one <19> of the things you have mentioned in that paragraph is a <20> log of authorised meetings. Can we go to paragraph 4.6 <21> and 4.7: <22> "Authority to have meetings with informants rests <23> with the controller." That is, again, the detective <24> chief inspector? <25> A. Yes, sir.

. P-5149 BARLEY < 1> Q. So before any meeting of the kinds that have been < 2> described in the Kent Report based on Davidson and < 3> Budgen you would expect a detective chief inspector to < 4> know all about that? < 5> A. Yes, sir. < 6> Q. He has to know because he has to authorise the < 7> meeting? < 8> A. Yes, sir. < 9> Q. It is the detective chief inspector who authorises <10> not the SIO? <11> A. In this case, sir, if control is passed to an SIO <12> I would expect him to say, you can meet this man under <13> these conditions or at this point. <14> Q. All right. Let us suppose it is passed to the SIO <15> and he is authorising the meetings. Paragraph 4.7 and <16> 4.6. Sorry, I read the two together? <17> A. Yes. <18> Q. "The authoriser", the SIO in this case, "can impose <19> as many or as few conditions as he thinks fit, time, <20> place and so on. Whether he is to be accompanied by a <21> more senior officer and so on, but responsibility and <22> accountability rests with, in this case, the senior <23> investigating officer." <24> A. Yes, sir. <25> Q. The conditions under which the meeting takes place

. P-5150 BARLEY < 1> should again go on to the profile? < 2> A. Indeed. On to the informant file. < 3> Q. Sorry, yes? < 4> A. Yes. < 5> Q. Who enters up the conditions, the SIO controller? < 6> A. If the control is under the SIO, then it is SIO, < 7> sir. < 8> Q. Right: < 9> "Having got prior authority", this is the next <10> paragraph, "he may authorise a meeting provided it <11> takes place on police premises or at a court and the <12> handler is accompanied by another officer." Is that an <13> exclusive situation or can meetings take place <14> otherwise. In other words, I really want an <15> amplification of that paragraph? <16> A. That paragraph, sir, deals exclusively with a <17> meeting of the informants if they are on bail for <18> criminal offences. <19> Q. So nothing else? <20> A. Nothing else. <21> Q. However, if, for example, the meeting that I <22> already asked you to look at as we passed through it, <23> there is a meeting at a public house, you would have <24> expected that to have been particularly authorised and <25> conditions specified for the meeting?

. P-5151 BARLEY < 1> A. Yes, sir. < 2> Q. The reason for that, of course, is an extremely < 3> dangerous operation to meet an informant in a public < 4> place where it might be noticed -- < 5> A. Yes, sir. < 6> Q. -- and where the officers might be recognised? < 7> A. Yes, sir. < 8> Q. -- and where the informant might be recognised? < 9> A. Yes, sir. <10> Q. In fact generally it is advisable not to meet in a <11> public house, is it not? <12> A. It is. Practice tends to be that officers do meet <13> informers in public houses. <14> Q. Sorry, the last matter is this, it has been called <15> the "unregistered cover"? <16> A. Yes. <17> Q. Can we have (PCA00450076). I am pausing to be <18> careful because the letter that accompanies this, it is <19> not the next page but the one after that ,-- there is <20> nothing on (PCA00450076)? <21> A. That's right. <22> Q. But on (PCA00450078) there is a letter dated <23> 12th July, 1993 from Detective Sergeant Davidson? <24> A. Yes, sir. <25> Q. A request for an award is being made in his case

. P-5152 BARLEY < 1> for his assistance. I am summarising? < 2> A. Yes, sir. < 3> Q. If he has been registered in the proper way, would < 4> it go, this letter for a reward -- and there is another < 5> response by Mr Weeden, I will leave that for the moment < 6> -- would you have expected that to end up under an < 7> unregistered cover docket? < 8> A. Yes, sir, I would. The system is this application < 9> for a reward would be generated from the informant <10> file. The information going on to the file, the <11> officer would then, if he saw fit, apply for award and <12> would create an unregistered cover because that would <13> then physically travel to the authorising officer. <14> Q. So the implication here is that there was a file <15> in existence? <16> A. Yes, sir. <17> Q. Can you tell from these documents, I am afraid <18> there is not very much there, I certainly cannot but <19> maybe you can with an experienced eye, can you tell us <20> anything about the nature of the original file or where <21> it was from these documents? <22> A. No, sir, I cannot. <23> Q. But it would be quite simple to trace who should <24> have had it even in 1993 now? <25> A. From what I have seen, yes, sir.

. P-5153 BARLEY < 1> MR MANSFIELD: Thank you. < 2> THE CHAIRMAN: You are the only other person to < 3> question, are you? < 4> MR EGAN: I may be. < 5> MR GOMPERTZ: I will have one or two questions. < 6> THE CHAIRMAN: I think as we have no other witness, if < 7> the shorthand writer is happy we can conclude the < 8> evidence. We can do that in a few minutes. < 9> MR EGAN: Certainly for me. <10> I suppose I go first. <11> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes, you go first, Mr Egan. <12> MR EGAN: Thank you very much. <13> Q. Dealing with the last matter you were asked by <15> Mr Mansfield about: this question of a financial <16> reward, an experienced detective sergeant could not <17> expect, could he, somebody who was not a registered <18> informant---- <19> THE CHAIRMAN: You cannot be heard, I am told. It may <20> be that---- <21> MR EGAN: I am grateful to Mr Lawson. He switched me <22> on. I will start begun. <23> An experienced detective sergeant could not expect <24> a non-registered informant to be properly in receipt of <25> a financial award, could he?

. P-5154 BARLEY < 1> A. That's right, sir. < 2> Q. No question about that? < 3> A. No. < 4> Q. Thank you. To assist my learned friend < 5> Mr Mansfield, Mr Budgen, in fact, gave some information < 6> about who the controller might have been and certainly < 7> gave names. You will remember that? < 8> THE CHAIRMAN: I remember a name called Owens. < 9> MR EGAN: That's right, Les Owens and there was a <10> DI Bullibon, the reference is 3254 of page 18. <11> Just finally then this please: the controller, as <12> an absolute rule at that time had to be at least a <13> detective chief inspector? <14> A. Yes, sir. <15> Q. And should be in normal circumstances independent <16> of the handler and, indeed, the informant. Yes? <17> A. Yes, sir. <18> Q. Because objectivity means that if, for example, a <19> request was made to register the informant in another <20> area to make sure the controller was able to keep a <21> hands on control but not to be personally involved that <22> would be altogether a proper thing to do, would it? <23> A. Yes, sir. <24> Q. Yes, I see? <25> THE CHAIRMAN: I heard the magic word "finally".

. P-5155 BARLEY < 1> MR EGAN: Yes. < 2> Q. The existence of the unregistered cover, which we < 4> can see, please, (PCA00450076). If you go up to the < 5> top of the page, please. The existence of that < 6> document, does that assist you in determining whether < 7> it is likely or unlikely that registration took place? < 8> A. From this, sir, I would say that registration took < 9> place. <10> Q. Why? <11> A. Because there would be no need for this document, <12> it wouldn't have any meaning at all until the person <13> was registered as a police informant. <14> Q. Yes. We have heard from Messrs Davidson and <15> Budgen that they did, indeed, go to Greenwich for the <16> purpose of commencing the registration procedure. Can <17> we look and see what we have very briefly in the other <18> material with this registered cover. Can we go on two <19> pages to the application by Davidson, that is 12th July <20> 1993, in the first line he says: <21> "On Saturday, 24th April a registered informant <22> known by the name of James Grant attended the <23> police station." <24> So it would appear that Mr Davidson thought <25> registration had taken place, if that is a genuine

. P-5156 BARLEY < 1> document? < 2> A. Yes, sir. < 3> Q. Can we look at the next page, please to see what < 4> Mr Weeden had to say about it. That refers to a < 5> report -- just stay up a little bit higher, Grace, < 6> please. Dated 12/7/93. If we look and see was he < 7> wrote in his first line: " < 8> This recently registered informant provided the < 9> first relevant information to police as to who was <10> responsible for the murder of Stephen Lawrence." <11> A. Yes. <12> Q. Of course it only goes to Mr Weeden's state of <13> mind, but he appears to have been under the impression <14> that you are, that the documentation indicated <15> registration? <16> A. Yes, sir, indeed. <17> Q. You cannot help us at all as to what might have <18> happened to the file? <19> A. No, I cannot, sir. <20> MR GOMPERTZ: Thank you. That is all I ask. <21> THE CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Thank you, <22> Mr Barley. That is all you are required for. <23> MR LAWSON: Sir, as you know, we do not have further <24> live evidence to be called today because of the <25> difficulties to which Mr Mansfield is eluded. I will

. P-5157 BARLEY < 1> ask you to adjourn the proceedings until Monday when we < 2> hope to complete the evidence of Mr Crampton and move < 3> on to Mr Bullock. < 4> THE CHAIRMAN: Yes. Thank you very much. I think < 5> everybody knows that Mr Mansfield requires time to < 6> collect together cross-examination to finish < 7> questioning of Mr Crampton and then Ms Woodley will < 8> round off those proceedings. Then we will have < 9> Mr Bullock after that? <10> MR LAWSON: Yes. <11> THE CHAIRMAN: So we will meet again on Monday at <12> 10 o'clock. <13> MS WOODLEY: Can I raise one matter. If further <14> documentation is going to be made available, and I <15> understand it is going to be made available to us, with <16> your leave, may we pass that documentation on to <17> Mr Crampton. <18> THE CHAIRMAN: Oh, yes, of course. You can talk to <19> Mr Crampton about anything to do with fresh <20> documentation whenever you wish. <21> MS WOODLEY: I am grateful for that. <22> THE CHAIRMAN: They you very much. <23> <(The Inquiry adjourned at 1.15) <24> <25>

. P-5158 BARLEY