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Interviews BillyBilly ChildsChilds Jazz Standard

April 13-16

John LaBarbera

Sheila Jordan

Buddy Buddy

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Cover Photo (and photo at right taken at Brandi’s Wharf, Philadelphia, PA) of Buddy Rich by Eric Nemeyer

Publisher: Eric Nemeyer Editor: John R. Barrett, Jr. Marketing Director: Cheryl Powers Advertising Sales & Marketing: Eric Nemeyer Circulation: Susan Brodsky Photo Editor: Joe Patitucci Layout and Design: Gail Gentry Contributing Artists: Shelly Rhodes Contributing Photographers: Eric Nemeyer, Ken Weiss Contributing Writers: John Alexander, John R. Barrett, Curtis Daven- port; Eric Harabadian; Alex Henderson; Joe Patitucci; Ken Weiss.

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CONTENTS 22 Clubs & Venue Listings Trumpeter John LaBarbera 26 Billy Childs CLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTS INTERVIEWSINTERVIEWS FEATURE 28 Sheila Jordan 13 Calendar of Events, Concerts, Festi- 22 Buddy Rich — Observations by His 4 Buddy Rich - Inside The Buddy Rich vals and Club Performances Manager Steve Peck & Others Big Band — As Told By Arranger,

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Feature BuddyBuddy RichRich

By Eric Nemeyer ed Pat. Pat, one semester shy of graduating, just was there, he’d hangout with us at Buddy’s re- went out on the road with Buddy. I was on the road hearsals, and Joe was the first one to play “Channel JL: Let’s start from square one. I was on the with a society, a show band, a Vegas review band, One Suite.” Buddy had him rehearse the band road…my brothers Pat and Joe, we were all at and he said, “Buddy’s looking for a trumpet play- while he listened to it when Bill Reddie brought it Berklee at the same time. Pat had one more semes- er.” I gave notice and I showed up. The thing in. It was pretty well documented. Joe was the first ter to go before graduating. To give you an idea about Buddy was there was no audition. You gave one to play it. Then, Buddy went up to the band- about Pat, Pat played in a rehearsal band every your notice on the other gig, you showed up on the stand, sat there, and just played it down. Saturday morning. Jimmy Mosher, the alto sax bandstand, and if you didn’t play the book that player who was on Buddy’s band, couldn’t take the night, you were fired. So, I flew into Last Vegas. JI: After one shot through, right? road anymore so he came back to Boston and start- We were at the Sands, first of January, 1968. We ed a Saturday morning rehearsal big band. There played a month at the Sands. JL: Pretty much one shot. There were some time would be paying gigs. And the regular tenor player change things, but pretty much Buddy had it. Joe in the band would always send Pat in as a sub on JI: The whole big band? played it all the way through as written but Buddy Saturday morning rehearsals and then Pat would put his own stamp on it because certain tempos and never get the paying gig. Everyone told him, “well, JL: The whole big band. Frankie Randall was our certain things, he had an instinct for what to change you’re a sucker, you shouldn’t be doing that” but opening act and my brother, Joe, was Frankie Ran- and what not to change. Pat was playing and when Buddy Rich called Jim- dall’s drummer. He was a good singer and Joe was my asking if he knew any good tenor players, he his drummer. Sinatra even gave Frankie a bunch of JI: When you joined the band, you were just sight- didn’t recommend the regular guy, he recommend- charts. They really liked him a lot. Because Joe (Continued on page 6)

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To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 5 JL: I really wish that students today could have geles to record. That’s when Don Menza joined the Buddy Rich that luxury like we had. It was amazing because band. He had not been with us in Vegas, but he was you could really get it together. When the band has going to join us in L.A. He wrote “Groovin’ Hard.” that much time in one place, it really gels and con- Jay Corre [tenor sax] left. Pat took the second ten- geals and turns into something really hip. or, and Menza took first tenor and we had a couple (Continued from page 4) more trumpet changes then. Anyway, we did basi- reading the charts cold? What chair were you play- JI: And you have time to practice during the day. cally that same album with Ernie Watts playing ing in the trumpet section? “Alfie” and “Goodbye Yesterday” and some cuts JL: You have time to practice and, quite frankly, of that have been released or reissued on another JL: I was playing fourth but I had listened to that during those days, the mob ran Vegas in those thing but that never came out. They decided not to band so much, I knew all the tunes but I didn’t days. You could do pretty much anything you want put it out. They wanted to do it live, in concert, know the book. Lin Biviano was the lead trumpet except gamble so everything was free for us. Cars which is Buddy’s best area for recording anyway. So, we did the album but, to my disappointment as a player, it never came out at that time. “People forget that he wanted to be a jazz player JI: I think I have it, I’m not sure, but there was an first and then a drummer … That technique was album, like a double album on Blue Note, with a bunch of stuff that wasn’t released. “Mr. Lucky,” I a direct result of wanting to play jazz so badly ... think, was one of the tracks on there…

You know, he would support the family when he JL: That could have been it. I sort of lose track when they come out on c.d. I can’t keep them all was growing up—he was the star … he was the straight as to what the chronology is there.

JI: That’s what I liked about LPs. breadwinner until the day he died.” JL: Yup. You could pretty much count on the his- player, and as soon as I flew into town, I said, “I’ve were next to nothing to rent. We could practice in torical line. That was a great experience for me got to see Goodbye Yesterday and West Side Sto- the motels. There’s nothing to do in Vegas if you because that was my first real, professional record- ry.” I took the book to my room and started shed- don’t gamble. It really was a boring town back ing session…with a major artist, that is. ding some of the parts. I tell my students it was a then, we’re talking about in ‘68. very famous story how I learned to change my JI: How long did you stay with Buddy’s band? embouchure very quickly because I have an under JI: As the fourth part, were you playing a lot of bite, and I play with the bell down, and the rest of doubles of the first or were there a lot of four JL: I lasted about three to four months and then he the trumpets play with their bells up as you should. part… fired me. Well, he fired us all a bunch of times. I Half-way through the first set, I hear this yelling. think I was fired at least three times. As a matter of “Hold your horn up or you’re fired!” I immediately JL: That book is like a wind ensemble, one person fact, when I delivered the eulogy at the memorial held the horn up, I was looking down, trying to per part, just like a real big band. They were inte- service, that got a huge laugh when I said that most read the book through the edges of my glasses, but gral and you weren’t doubling the first trombone, of the people in the room had been fired at least I got through it and I immediately learned to play either, they were separate parts, depending on the once by Buddy and that was a red badge of cour- the other way. I’ll never forget that as long as I arranger, of course. Don Piestrup, who was one of age. live! It was scary because no way did I want the the principal arrangers for that time, he wrote some embarrassment of being fired on my first night. really hard stuff and everything depended really on JI: But when you were fired, was it a traumatic everyone pulling their own weight. experience or was it kind of like a laugh at that JI: Was it a really awkward physical thing to make point? that adjustment to play that way every night? JI: John, talk a little bit about how you developed your confidence during the first few weeks of the JL: Well, it wasn’t a laugh. I have to admit that it JL: Every night until I could get some help be- gig with Buddy. was a little traumatic. We had just finished a tour cause what I was literally doing was arching back of London and he fired me. Then, they couldn’t and holding the bell up and having to look down JL: Well, quite frankly, because my brother was find a replacement so I stayed on anyway. Then, in through the bottoms of my glasses to look at the there and Buddy really respected Pat, that’s the April, I got off. I forget who took my place. Then, I part, see? I was still playing the same way with an way gigs were given away. Because you’re really was starting to write. I was really enjoying the under bite, but I had to hold the horn up so, physi- good, your brother must be good, too. I proved writing more than playing, and I think Buddy knew cally, it was a bitch, but you do what you have to myself. I wasn’t the greatest because I didn’t have that. do, especially in that band. Carl Saunders was on the endurance that it took right away to play that that band. The band was going through a transition book. It finally came and we were really tightening JI: You mean you were writing while you were at that point and they were looking for new players up the section. We were doing this because we playing with the band? and that’s why I got a chance to go in. were getting ready to do a record right after that. The things we were rehearsing were all the new JL: Yeah, I was writing charts, trying things out. JI: Who else was in the trumpet section with you? things like “Channel One Suite.” We slipped them After he fired me as a trumpet player, I went on the in that night to try them out. After awhile, it’s like Glenn Miller Band. Every time I’d see him, he’d JL: Let’s see, Carl Saunders, Lin Biviano, I think, anything else. You figure, “yeah, I can do this, it’s say, “when are you gonna bring me some charts?” Bobby Shew, for a minute and a half at the tail end. getting easier” and every now and then he gives He was serious, he wasn’t just patronizing me. He When we finally left the Sands, we had Russ Iver- you a shot and you tighten up a little bit but, by and had a voracious appetite for new music. He could son, and maybe Kenny Faulk, though he may have large, I got through it pretty easily that first month. not stand to play the same stuff every night and it joined us in LA. was a dream for the musicians because, with the JI: That record that you did, was that Mercy, Mer- Glen Miller book, you’d be playing the same tunes JI: Those gigs were a lot more palatable than the cy, Mercy—the one with Buddy on the cover with every night. one nighters because you could be in one place and the Nehru jacket? not experience the exhausting travel schedule and JI: From 1944. stress. JL: No, well, it should have been. Here’s what happened. We left Vegas and we went to Los An- (Continued on page 8)

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band had a week at Brandi’s Wharf. Since he had a JI: In anticipation of the recording! JI: How did your career begin to evolve after the week before the recording session, Willard recording of Different Drummer? [Alexander], his booking agent, would do that on JL: Yeah. So, with Buddy, you know, anything purpose to get the band ready for a session. So, I could change. He could change his mind the day of JL: I had been off the Glenn Miller Band and writ- had “Piece of the Road Suite,” I had “Straight No the session, so you never knew. He was pretty ing, and this literally put me on the map. It con- Chaser,” I had a whole bunch of stuff. So, I took strong on those charts. I was pretty confident he nected me in New York very well. I was doing the bus down and everybody was there. So, he saw was going to record them. Knowing the record jingles in commercials like everyone else was. me there, and of course knew me, and said, “okay, company, you’re not really sure if they’re going to That’s how you made your living as a writer and kid, put your stuff up.” So, I put down Piece of the actually get out. But it all worked out, Different you didn’t have to put your name on them. Really, Road Suite. It has a ballad opening, a jazz waltz, Drummer came out. Back then, LPs, a good LP, it opened up a lot of doors. I was writing for it’s pretty diverse. Lin Biviano and I had gone over shipped about 50,000 of the first pressing for big Woody, and Basie, and bands like that occasional- some of the trumpet parts. So I started out with band and that one shipped over 50,000 in the first ly, too. When the word gets out, band leaders are that. I’ll never forget. I started out with that at a pressing. like anyone else—they all talk amongst each other real strong tempo. Then, we went right into the jazz like club owners. It helped immensely. Willard waltz. Now, realize he’s sitting at the front table, JI: That’s a lot of albums for a jazz album. Alexander, who was Buddy’s booking agent, be- listening to the band. We got to the jazz waltz and friended me. He’s the one who put me in touch halfway through the jazz waltz he gets up on the JL: Well, for today, that’s unheard of. But for with a lot of very important people in the business drums and just starts playing with the chart and then…well, Buddy had a huge name so that was a to help me get work and things like that. He kind of finishes it. No bullshit—as though he’d played it pretty much guaranteed run. From then on, of took me under his wing and that really helped a lot. all his life, and then he says to me, “okay, kid, course, I became his arranger. That was it. I tell people who want to listen that you haven’t got it JI: That was a really fortuitous connection. any better than to have someone call you on the

phone and say, “I’ve got a month in London or two JL: Oh, without question.

weeks in London. Fly to London and bring me new “In times of change, material.” JI: Buddy didn’t have a style, as you mentioned, the learners shall inherit the but when you wrote for Basie, what were some of earth, while the learned find JI: That’s a dream. the formulas that you had to follow?

themselves beautifully equipped JL: It is a dream and, of course, I wasn’t dumb. I JL: I’ll give you a good example. Willard Alexan- to succeed in a world that would pick the times when I knew he had a loca- der introduced me to him at the St. Regis Hotel. no longer exists.” tion in London, or Los Angeles, or Disney World, Buddy had a dance gig. Willard convinced Buddy and I’d call him and tell him I’ve got some new to play dance music, which Buddy hated, but he’d stuff. He’d say, “Get a plane ticket and come out!” be able to stay in New York. His apartment was — Eric Hoffer, American Philosopher He knew what I was doing but why not? I wrote so (Continued on page 10)

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To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 9 JI: I’m looking at the lineup for that album…there that guy’s pitch. To answer your question, that Buddy Rich was “Dancing Men,” “St. Mark’s Square”… week in London, that was the highlight. I got to know him quite well because he was kind of a soli- JL: That’s right. I wrote that there because Pat got tary character and when his wife wasn’t with him, married at St. Mark’s Square. no one hung out with him. And he read a lot. He (Continued from page 8) was kind of embarrassed that he never went to right up the street in Lincoln Plaza. I wrote a dance JI: “That’s Enough” for Cathy and her group? school. I remember I was using a word…I paused book for Buddy, a complete dance book. Straight and I said, “that means…” and he said, ‘I know ahead stuff but, you know, kind of hip and Buddy. JL: They didn’t have any lead sheets so I had to what it means!’ I felt awkward because I was try- During that engagement, Basie came by to check it make a sketch. I went back to the Whitehouse Ho- ing to help him out because a lot of the times, he out and Benny Goodman and John Hammond and tel, sat in the tub, and started sketching. The owner felt guilty that he never went to school. all those guys were there, they all came to check of the hotel, who was an ex-RAF pilot, he loved the out the band, and I got introduced to Basie. He said guys in the band, he let me go down to his apart- JI: What kind of reading was he doing? to me, “I want you to write something for my ment. He and his wife had a piano. He let me check band.” I was totally knocked out just to meet him, some things out on it. I always score it first, then JL: Psychology. I saw him many, many times with but then here’s the punch. He says, “I want you to check it. I found lots of mistakes but I got it done, a psychology book in his hand. He’d be propped up write this thing that Freddie Martin had a hit on, copied the parts. The guys in the band were all in bed, or I’d be having coffee with him, and he’d you know, “Melody in F.” Rubinstein’s “Melody in friends of mine, so they’d fix a lot of the mistakes. tell me what he wanted. Plus, he was very much F.” I say, “Holy Christ, the first thing I get to do They’d find wrong notes and they wouldn’t bring it into science fiction and extraterrestrials. We’d go for Basie is this dumb old tune!” So, I go home, up in front of Buddy, which, today, is unusual. to see these movies in New York because he need- write the chart, call and tell them I have the chart ed someone to hang out with. ready. I go into the rehearsal and Basie says to me, JI: “Two Bass Hit,” was that yours’ too? “what key did you write it in?” ‘Melody in F, I JI: After the Rich in London album, there was the wrote it in F.’ Basie says to me, “oh, no, I don’t JL: “Two Bass Hit”…I think that was Don’s Stick it album. What was your experience with that play in F.” So, I had to write a modulation. There (Piestrup). Great chart. Now, you’ve got the single one? were certain stylistic things…the bucket-muted album—Rich In London. The album was actually JL: Well, I wrote half of that on the plane going to Houston. They had a week at a club in Houston. “this guy came in … promoting this double bass drum “Sassy Strut,” I finished on the plane. “Being Green” I wrote that in the studio because they pedal. He’s says, ‘Buddy, you got to try this thing, man! wanted him to sing. That was a quickie. “Space Shuttle” I wrote because Buddy was really fasci- You try this thing and you can play bass drum faster than nated with space travel. We went to the Houston space center and I wrote that. Basically, all of the anybody!’ Buddy said, ‘Like who?’ He only needed one stuff on that album I wrote that week or on the plane and then we went to New York and recorded foot, not two. That was the end of that guy’s pitch.” it. I’m just thinking, going back to the Rich in Lon- don album, you know that “Dancing Men?” I wrote trumpets, saxophones or trombones concerted ex- released as a double disc set in England. On that it and brought it to Harrisburg, PA. That wrote actly the same note, things like that. He didn’t play was “Watson’s Walk,” a great shuffle that I itself in about two minutes. I brought it to the gig in F normally. I had to make a modulation down to wrote… not knowing how Buddy would take to it and he Eb or maybe I went up to G. He liked G. Things just loved it. He said, “we’re definitely going to like that, those stylized kinds of things. He was JI: Actually, you know what? I was such a big record this in London!” That’s what he thought we really a smart man when it came to programming Buddy Rich fan back then, I bought the American were going to record. He said, “what’s the name of and the audiences. He just had years of experience album and somehow or another found the English that?” I said, “‘Dancing Men.’” He said, “what the dealing with people. So, that’s what I meant about release and bought it too. hell are you talking about?” I explained to him that styles. Woody had a style, you know, mainly blues- it was a Sherlock Holmes’ title. We were going to oriented and with Bill Chase, he had a lot of good, JL: You’re probably one of the few because that’s England and I figured there’s got to be a lot of strong high parts. hard to find! We recorded a lot that week. What we Sherlock fans. “Watson’s Walk,” another refer- did was take over Ronnie Scott’s office. We put the ence. Matter of Fact, John Hendricks came into the JI: Why don’t you talk about some more experi- sixteen-track board in there to get the sixteen rehearsal in London and I think he wanted to write ences you had with Buddy, writing for his band, tracks. The waiter was just bringing pint after pint lyrics to it. There were a lot of American musicians the recordings and so forth? after pint of beer to the backroom for us as we were traveling to Europe and there was a lot more cama- trying to record this stuff. So, we did a week of raderie back then. After Stick it, which was around JL: Definitely. The one that was the most fun for recording and there’s tons of tape in the vault from 1973, Buddy, still had a band for another 13 years. RCA Victor was the Rich in London album that we that week and there are some great moments. When The Roar of ‘74 is on Groove Merchant Records did. Marie and I had gone over to London just on Buddy Rich was in London or New York or any and shows a picture of him waving from his Lam- vacation, and I knew that the band was going over city, we had Emerson, Lake and Palmer and other borghini or Porsche or whatever. That was fun. I to record but it wasn’t definite. So, after a week we rock groups coming in like crazy. Any drummer in wrote this thing called “Backwoods Sideman” for flew back home because it really wasn’t definite the world would come and see Buddy. I mean, that. It was a really strong chart. Tony Levin [bass and then I got a telegram saying “come on back, that’s it. He was just this magnet and they would player] actually got Buddy to play that hoedown, we’re going to record the band.” I wasn’t totally just shake their heads and walk away. They just backbeat feel. Tony got him into it. Then of course prepared with all the charts. I had “Dancing Men” couldn’t believe it. There are certain legends about Buddy broke up the band for a couple of years to and I forget what other ones are on that album. I him but when you see him live, you know it isn’t do the small group thing at Buddy’s Place. I didn’t flew back to London, started cranking stuff out, bullshit, it is real. I’ll never forget the time that this do any writing for him at all. I started doing com- and then Buddy Rich’s daughter along with John guy came in from Ludwig or wherever it was and mercials and after he reformed the band with Mar- Hendricks’ and Stan Getz’s daughter had this vocal he was promoting this double bass drum pedal. cus and all the guys, if I had something, I’d come group so Buddy said, “I want a chart on this tomor- He’s says, “Buddy, you got to try this thing, man! in and he’d play it. Up until the day he died, I was row night.” It was one of those things where I had You try this thing and you can play bass drum fast- still bringing him stuff. to write a chart, copy the parts in one night, and er than anybody!” Buddy said, ‘Like who?’ He have it ready for recording in the morning. only needed one foot, not two. That was the end of (Continued on page 12)

10 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 11 thing like that, but mostly he wanted to know how the kids were doing. We’d talk about life in gen- Buddy Rich

eral, moving around, having a house here, a house

there. He’d run things by me every now and then. “It's surprising how many persons I’m sure Steve Marcus had the same kind of rela- (Continued from page 10) go through life without ever recognizing tionship with him. He’d talk about cars. He could- JI: Talk about your experiences after he reformed n’t even set up his own drum set. He was a klutz, that their feelings toward other people are the band. but he loved racing and he loved fine automobiles, largely determined by their feelings toward all that stuff. Mechanical things didn’t like him. themselves, and if you're not comfortable JL: You know, I’m going to have to stop and go within yourself, you can't be through my library to see what we did. When he JI: Just to back track for a second, when you wrote comfortable with others.” was recording, he’d always play “Best Coast” eve- for Woody’s band, did he give you any kinds of ry night of the week. A lot of the older stuff he instructions or directions? would include in the live recordings and so proba- - Sydney J. Harris bly those would be the most prominent of what was JL: No, but he would make cuts here and there. represented in the later CDs or albums. I’d have to Buddy, too. I learned from Mancini that you don’t cians to observe someone like Buddy Rich and pick go look but I know “The Walk on the Wild Side” want to fall in love with everything you’ve written up surface elements of the image he projected on that I did on my CD, I wrote for him. He asked me because that could be the first thing to go. Like on stage, the wise-guy image, and so on—and to emu- to write it for him for that Rich in London album. “Walk on the Wild Side,” I’ll give you a for in- late that on the premise that one has to be like that He always wanted that score. I did a pretty half- stance. There’s a Dixieland thing from the movie to perform like he did. assed job on in London. He knew it, I knew it, and as well. He cut the whole section out, much to my we never really addressed it over the years. He kept dismay, Instead, he went right to the shout on the JL: Well, I think the balance comes with having asking me, “When are you going to get me “‘Walk way out. I listened to it, I watched the video of him the goods to back it up and that’s what Buddy had. on the Wild Side?’” I put it off. Finally, I found the playing it, and when I went to record it for my CD, Unfortunately, a lot of kids coming up today feel original recording of the movie soundtrack at a I realized that he was right. I didn’t put it in. So, he you have to have that attitude and that swagger just yard sale that had all of the other songs except the had an instinct and so did Woody. He knew that to get ahead without realizing that they have to main theme, which I heard before. After he got out you knew how to write for him and if you didn’t, have the whole package. They start emulating that of the hospital for that quadruple bypass, I brought well, you probably wouldn’t get a call anymore. attitude, it doesn’t work, and I think it takes away it to New York and he had a ball. He loved that. from the playing. To be able to play and play well It’s on video at certain festivals but he never had a JI: Are there things that you wanted to talk about and to know it, I think, is very healthy. chance to record it. Of course, since then I recorded that we haven’t covered? it but that was something that he always wanted, JI: Now, when you look at Buddy play too, you that and “Mission Impossible.” Luckily, I got him JL: Well, sure. If you want to lose a lot of money, see this astonishing technique and, as you men- “Walk on the Wild Side.” start a big band. [For me] Buddy’s there all the tioned, he’d sit in front of the band, listen to it time. He’s sitting in the back row somewhere. I use once, and be able to play it. He would listen to JI: Could you talk about some of the observations a lot of his jokes with the band, how to rehearse a classical music and be able to hum back or sing you might have made or discussions with Buddy band, all these things. I am a direct result of all the back the entire part. That speaks more to his musi- that you might have had that made an impact on things that I’ve watched him do over the years. cal ability, as opposed to his being merely a phe- your artistic development or understanding of hu- Also, the reason those CDs are so good is because I nomenal drummer. man nature? hired the best players that there are. Period. That’s what Buddy did. JL: Oh, he had an ear! He was unique. Talking JL: When I played trumpet on the band, we went about extraterrestrial beings, I think he was planted to London with Tony Bennett for a month. We JI: How do you use encouragement or otherwise here by a flying saucer or something. I think I played out of town first, before we landed in Lon- motivate players? sound like I’m just spewing. But to have an associ- don. We were in Birmingham I think or Manches- ation with someone that great, that doesn’t happen ter, I can’t remember…you know that drum break JL: I try to be as hands-off as possible. Like with very often in life and this guy was just unique. He on “Love for Sale”? Buddy, if you treat me like an adult, I’ll treat you really is the complete package. He really is the real like an adult if you perform. I try to not dictate thing. People forget that he wanted to be a jazz JI: That incredible single stroke roll? because you have to let them try and find their own player first and then a drummer. The times when he stride but I learned from Buddy when to bring the was forced to go commercial here and commercial JL: That one night in Birmingham or Manchester, hammer down. You have to know when to nail there—he was making money, but he realized it he totally blew it. We were totally shocked because them and when to encourage them. I learned that was dumb. Same with the clubs. That technique he never blew anything. He yelled to Pat, “pick it from Buddy. Buddy did a lot of things people don’t was a direct result of wanting to play jazz so badly. up before the break.” We picked it up again and know about. Art Pepper was having problems— You know, he would support the family when he this time he nailed it and the crowd went nuts. and Buddy was paying hospital bills, and a lot of was growing up—he was the star. They were dying Years, years, years later, maybe four or five years stuff. Buddy knew when they were having prob- because he would take a jazz gig and not remain before he died, we were hanging out at his apart- lems and messing up. He knew when to be encour- the breadwinner for them [their Vaudeville act] - ment waiting for takeout and I said, “you know, aging and when to be a bad guy. although he was the breadwinner until the day he Buddy, I always wanted to ask you, that night in died. Manchester, did you blow that lick on purpose so JI: When you observe Buddy, you might get the you could get the show business aspect of doing it surface impression that he had a huge ego. Behind JI: What is on the short list of the most important again and pulling it off, like falling from the tra- the scenes, he was very generous, concerned, pri- things you learned from Buddy Rich? peze once?” He went ballistic. He said, ‘You never vate, and quiet. do tricks like that on purpose. You’ve got to give it JL: As I get older, I start to see that I could short- 100%. Don’t lay back.” He went on and on and on JL: Buddy was very kind and he did a lot of things change things. I try not short-change the music or and that told me a lot. You may have the option to that Frank Sinatra did. I think they picked it up go for a cheap shot, I try to be honest with the mu- shortchange, but you better not do it because that’s together, helping people out, encouraging musi- sic, and I think it comes through with the CDs. going to track you the rest of your life. With Bud- cians, and they knew when they were getting taken That’s what Buddy would expect.

dy, half the time, we’d talk about anything but for a ride and wouldn’t put up with it.

music unless I’d bring it up. Every now and then    I’d ask him about a certain band leaders or some- JI: It can be tempting for fans or aspiring musi-

12 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880

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 Pierre Christophe/Joel Frahm/Joe Martin Trio; Roxy Coss Quintet; Saturday April 1 Sarah Slonim Project - After-hours Jam Session, Small’s

 Peter Bernstein, Village Vanguard  Chano Dominguez Flamenco Quintet, Sonia Fernandez, Ismael Friday April 7 Fernandez, Alexis Cuadrado, Jose Moreno, Jazz Standard  DIVA jazz orchestra, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Eric Reed Quartet, Tim Green (saxophone) Eric Reed (piano) Michael-  Eliane Elias, Birdland Gurrola (bass) McClenty Hunter (drums), Village Vanguard  City Stomp, Shapeshifter  Randy Weston’s African Rrhythms Quintet, 91st Birthday Celebration,  Tuomo Uusitalo - Afternoon Jam Session; Bob DeMeo Quartet; TK Blue, Alex Blake, Lewis Nash, Neil Clarke, George Colligan Quintet; Brooklyn Circle, Small’s  Stanley Clarke Band, Blue Note  Christian McBride Big Band, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Buddy Rich Centennial: Celebrating The Jazz Drum, Jazz At Lincoln Sunday April 2 Center Orchestra with Wynton Marsalis and music director Ali Jack- son presents new arrangements of hits made famous by Buddy Rich  Peter Bernstein, Village Vanguard and premiere Jackson’s Living Grooves: A World of Jazz Rhythm,  Chano Dominguez Flamenco Quintet, Sonia Fernandez, Ismael Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center. Fernandez, Alexis Cuadrado, Jose Moreno, Jazz Standard  Yellowjackets, Birdland  DIVA jazz orchestra, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Human Element, Shapeshifter  Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra, Birdland  Tom Dempsey/Tim Ferguson Quartet; Noah Preminger Quartet; After-  Jon Lundbom and Big V Chord, Shapeshifter hours Jam Session with Corey Wallace, Small’s  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Ai Murakami Trio feat. Sacha Perry; Microscopic Septet; Alex Norris Quintet; Hillel Salem - After- hours Jam Session, Small’s Saturday April 8

 Eric Reed Quartet, Tim Green (saxophone) Eric Reed (piano) Michael- Monday April 3 Gurrola (bass) McClenty Hunter (drums), Village Vanguard  Randy Weston’s African Rhythms Quintet, 91st Birthday Celebration,  Vanguard Orchestra, Village Vanguard TK Blue, Alex Blake, Lewis Nash, Neil Clarke, Jazz Standard  Mingus Big Band, Jazz Standard  Stanley Clarke Band, Blue Note  Sean Jones, Berklee College of Music Sextet  Christian McBride Big Band, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Danilo Brito Quintet: Choro Meets Jazz, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Buddy Rich Centennial: Celebrating The Jazz Drum, Jazz At Lincoln  Sam Dillon Quartet; ELEW and Nature of Next, Small’s Center Orchestra with Wynton Marsalis and music director Ali Jack- son presents new arrangements of hits made famous by Buddy Rich and premiere Jackson’s Living Grooves: A World of Jazz Rhythm, Tuesday April 4 Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center.  Yellowjackets, Birdland  Eric Reed Quartet, Tim Green (saxophone) Eric Reed (piano) Michael-  Human Element, Shapeshifter Gurrola (bass) McClenty Hunter (drums), Village Vanguard  Robert Edwards - Afternoon Jam Session; Fukushi Tainaka Quintet;  Mobetta Tuesdays, Pass The Peas!, Maurice Brown, Lakecia Benja- Noah Preminger Quartet; Philip Harper Quintet, Small’s min, Chris Rob, Marcus Machado, Doug Wimbish, Louis Cato, Jazz Standard  Stanley Clarke Band, Blue Note Sunday April 9  Chuck Redd Quartet, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Yellowjackets, Birdland  Eric Reed Quartet, Tim Green (saxophone) Eric Reed (piano) Michael-  Frank Lacy Group; Abraham Burton Quartet, Small’s Gurrola (bass) McClenty Hunter (drums), Village Vanguard  Randy Weston’s African Rhythms Quintet, 91st Birthday Celebration, TK Blue, Alex Blake, Lewis Nash, Neil Clarke, Jazz Standard Wednesday April 5  Stanley Clarke Band, Blue Note  Christian McBride Big Band, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Eric Reed Quartet, Tim Green (saxophone) Eric Reed (piano) Michael  Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra, Birdland Gurrola (bass) McClenty Hunter (drums), Village Vanguard  Yellowjackets, Birdland  Chris Bergson Band, Craig Dreyer, Matt Clohesy, Tony Mason, Ellis  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Ai Murakami Trio feat. Sacha Hooks, Reggie Pittman, David Luther, Jazz Standard Perry; Johnny O'Neal Trio; Ian Hendrickson-Smith Quartet; Jon  Stanley Clarke Band, Blue Note Beshay - After-hours Jam Session, Small’s  Christian McBride Big Band, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Yellowjackets, Birdland Monday April 10

Thursday April 6  Vanguard Orchestra, Village Vanguard  Mingus Big Band, Jazz Standard  Eric Reed Quartet, Tim Green (saxophone) Eric Reed (piano) Michael-  Deborah Davis - 19th Annual Leukemia & Lymphoma Society Benefit Gurrola (bass) McClenty Hunter (drums), Village Vanguard Concert, Blue Note  Randy Weston’s African Rrhythms Quintet, 91st Birthday Celebration,  Manhattan School of Music Afro-Cuban Jazz Orchestra, Dizzy’s Club TK Blue, Alex Blake, Lewis Nash, Neil Clarke, Jazz Standard Coca Cola  Stanley Clarke Band, Blue Note  Arcoiris Sandoval Sonic Asylum Quintet; Jonathan Michel - After-  Christian McBride Big Band, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola hours Jam Session, Small’s  Yellowjackets, Birdland (Continued on page 14)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 13 Ugonna Okegwo (bass) Adam Cruz (drums), Village Vanguard Tuesday April 11 Wednesday April 12  Billy Childs Quartet, Donny McCaslin [4/13], Steve Wilson [4/14-4/16], Hans Glawischnig, Ari Hoeing, Jazz Standard  Tom Harrell (trumpet) Ralph Moore (saxophone) David Virelles (piano)  Tom Harrell (trumpet) Ralph Moore (saxophone) David Virelles (piano)  Kenny Garrett Quintet, Blue Note Ugonna Okegwo (bass) Adam Cruz (drums), Village Vanguard Ugonna Okegwo (bass) Adam Cruz (drums), Village Vanguard  Christian Mcbride’s New Jawn with Josh Evans, Marcus Strickland,  The New Standard, Maurice Brown, James Francies, Ben Eunson,  Mike Mcginnis / Art Lande / Steve Swallow, Jazz Standard Nasheet Waits, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola Rashaan Carter, Marcus Gilmore, Christie Dashiell, Jazz Standard  Christian Mcbride’s New Jawn with Josh Evans, Marcus Strickland,  Kevin Eubanks Quartet with Dave Holland, Nicholas Payton, and Jeff  Bobby Deitch Band w/Nigel Hall & Adam Deitch, Blue Note Nasheet Waits, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola Tain Watts, Birdland  Christian Mcbride’s New Jawn with Josh Evans, Marcus Strickland,  Kevin Eubanks Quartet with Dave Holland, Nicholas Payton, and Jeff  Sam Yahel Trio; Brandon Sanders Quintet; Jonathan Thomas - "After- Nasheet Waits, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola Tain Watts, Birdland hours" Jam Session, Small’s  Kevin Eubanks Quartet with Dave Holland, Nicholas Payton, and Jeff  Tyler Blanton Quartet; Dave Baron Quartet; Aaron Seeber - After- Tain Watts, Birdland hours Jam Session, Small’s  Ehud Asherie Trio; Abraham Burton Quartet, Small’s Friday April 14

Thursday April 13  Tom Harrell (trumpet) Ralph Moore (saxophone) David Virelles (piano) Ugonna Okegwo (bass) Adam Cruz (drums), Village Vanguard  Tom Harrell (trumpet) Ralph Moore (saxophone) David Virelles (piano)  Billy Childs Quartet, Donny McCaslin [4/13], Steve Wilson [4/14-4/16], Hans Glawischnig, Ari Hoeing, Jazz Standard  Kenny Garrett Quintet, Blue Note  Christian Mcbride’s New Jawn with Josh Evans, Marcus Strickland, Nasheet Waits, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Kevin Eubanks Quartet with Dave Holland, Nicholas Payton, and Jeff Tain Watts, Birdland  On Ka'a Davis, Shapeshifter  Clemens Grassmann, Alex Madeline (tenor sax), David Milazzo (Alto Sax), Jernej Bervar (Guitar), Sam Weber (Bass), Clemens Grassmann (Drums) New York based drummer, percussionist and composer, Shapeshifter  Ralph Lalama & "Bop-Juice"; Philip Harper Quintet; After-hours Jam Session with Eric Wyatt, Small’s

Saturday April 15

 Tom Harrell (trumpet) Ralph Moore (saxophone) David Virelles (piano) Ugonna Okegwo (bass) Adam Cruz (drums), Village Vanguard  Billy Childs Quartet, Donny McCaslin [4/13], Steve Wilson [4/14-4/16], Hans Glawischnig, Ari Hoeing, Jazz Standard  Kenny Garrett Quintet, Blue Note  Christian Mcbride’s New Jawn with Josh Evans, Marcus Strickland, Nasheet Waits, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Kevin Eubanks Quartet with Dave Holland, Nicholas Payton, and Jeff Tain Watts, Birdland  Michael Bond - Afternoon Jam Session; Chris Byars Group; Philip Harper Quintet; Brooklyn Circle, Small’s

Sunday April 16

 Tom Harrell (trumpet) Ralph Moore (saxophone) David Virelles (piano) Ugonna Okegwo (bass) Adam Cruz (drums), Village Vanguard  Billy Childs Quartet, Donny McCaslin [4/13], Steve Wilson [4/14-4/16], Hans Glawischnig, Ari Hoeing, Jazz Standard  Kenny Garrett Quintet, Blue Note  Christian Mcbride’s New Jawn with Josh Evans, Marcus Strickland, Nasheet Waits, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra, Birdland  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Michael Pedicin Quintet; Johnny O'Neal Trio; Grant Stewart Quartet; Hillel Salem - After-hours Jam Session, Small’s

Monday April 17

 Vanguard Orchestra, Village Vanguard  Mingus Big Band, Jazz Standard  McCoy Tyner, Gary Bartz, Blue Note  MONDAY NIGHTS WITH WBGO, the purchase jazz orchestra with specia l guest ingrid jensen, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  "Rags to Ragas”, Blaise Siwula clarinet/sax Luciano Trojan piano; Vinnie Sperrazza trio and Moppa Elliott's Advancing on a Wild Pitch: Double bill, Shapeshifter  Mark Sherman Quintet; Ari Hoenig Group; Jonathan Barber - After- hours Jam Session, Small’s

Tuesday April 18

 Scott Colley Quartet, Jonathan Finlayson (trumpet, Tue-Fri) Ralph Alessi (trumpet, Sat-Sun) Jon Cowherd (piano) Scott Colley (bass) Nate Smith (drums), Village Vanguard  Straight, No Chaser, Maurice Brown, Stacy Dillard. Eric Lewis, Nir Felder, Eric Wheeler, Lenny White, Brianna Thomas, Jazz Standard  James Carter, Blue Note  Jaleel Shaw Quartet, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Ann Hampton Callaway, Birdland  Vinnie Sperrazza trio: Jacob Sacks - piano Chet Doxas - tenor Vinnie (Continued on page 16)

14 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 15 Sperrazza – drums  Lucas Pino Nonet; Abraham Burton Quartet, Small’s

Wednesday April 19

 Scott Colley Quartet, Jonathan Finlayson (trumpet, Tue-Fri) Ralph Alessi (trumpet, Sat-Sun) Jon Cowherd (piano) Scott Colley (bass) Nate Smith (drums), Village Vanguard  Linda May Han Oh, Jazz Standard  James Carter, Blue Note  Robert Rodriguez’s Noche de Boleros featuring Claudia Acuña and Melissa Aldana, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Ann Hampton Callaway, Birdland  Night of Illusions IV Oddfellows; The Summer Ludlow quintet featuring Luca Chesney & Joao Martins Quartet Double Bill, Shapeshifter  Hailey Niswanger Quartet; Harold Mabern Trio; Jovan Alexandre - After-hours Jam Session, Small’s

Thursday April 20

 Scott Colley Quartet, Jonathan Finlayson (trumpet, Tue-Fri) Ralph Alessi (trumpet, Sat-Sun) Jon Cowherd (piano) Scott Colley (bass) Nate Smith (drums), Village Vanguard  Joey DeFrancesco (Troy Roberts, Dan Wilson, Michael Ode), Jazz Standard  Arturo Sandoval, Blue Note  Robert Rodriguez’s Noche de Boleros featuring Claudia Acuña and Melissa Aldana, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Ann Hampton Callaway, Birdland  The Summer Ludlow quintet featuring Luca Chesney Vocals: Luca Chesney Saxophone: Inhigo Galdeano Piano: Summer Ludlow Bass: Pete Zagare Drums: Nahum Corona, Shapeshifter  Thomas Marriott Quartet; Nick Hempton Band; Sarah Slonim Project - After-hours Jam Session, Small’s

Friday April 21

 Scott Colley Quartet, Jonathan Finlayson (trumpet, Tue-Fri) Ralph Alessi (trumpet, Sat-Sun) Jon Cowherd (piano) Scott Colley (bass) Nate Smith (drums), Village Vanguard  Joey DeFrancesco (Troy Roberts, Dan Wilson, Michael Ode), Jazz Standard  Arturo Sandoval, Blue Note  Celebrating Slide Hampton’s 85th birthday, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Ann Hampton Callaway, Birdland  "Spin Cycle"; Rob Scheps Core-tet; After-hours Jam Session with Corey Wallace, Small’s

Saturday April 22

 Scott Colley Quartet, Jonathan Finlayson (trumpet, Tue-Fri) Ralph Alessi (trumpet, Sat-Sun) Jon Cowherd (piano) Scott Colley (bass) Nate Smith (drums), Village Vanguard  Joey DeFrancesco (Troy Roberts, Dan Wilson, Michael Ode), Jazz Standard  Arturo Sandoval, Blue Note  Celebrating Slide Hampton’s 85th birthday, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Ann Hampton Callaway, Birdland  Andrew Forman - Afternoon Jam Session; Behn Gillece Quartet; Rob Scheps Core-tet; Philip Harper Quintet, Small’s

Sunday April 23

 Scott Colley Quartet, Jonathan Finlayson (trumpet, Tue-Fri) Ralph Alessi (trumpet, Sat-Sun) Jon Cowherd (piano) Scott Colley (bass) Nate Smith (drums), Village Vanguard  Joey DeFrancesco (Troy Roberts, Dan Wilson), Jazz Standard  Arturo Sandoval, Blue Note  Celebrating Slide Hampton’s 85th birthday, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra, Birdland  Annie Chen Octet, Shapeshifter

Jazz Lovers’  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Ai Murakami Trio feat. Sacha Perry; Johnny O'Neal Trio; Mary Quintet; Jon Beshay - After-hours Jam Session, Small’s

Monday April 24

Lifetime Collection Lifetime  Vanguard Orchestra, Village Vanguard  Mingus Big Band, Jazz Standard  Purchase Jazz Orchestra, Blue Note  Alan Broadbent, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola JazzMusicDeals.com JazzMusicDeals.com  Craig Brann Quintet; Ari Hoenig Group; Jam Session, Small’s (Continued on page 17)

16 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 Sunday April 30

 Bill Stewart Trio, Walter Smith III (tenor sax) Larry Grenadier (bass) “...among human beings “Some people’s idea of Bill Stewart (drums), Village Vanguard jealousy ranks distinctly as a  Jimmy Greene & Lovein Action, Mike Moreno, Renee Rosnes, Reu- weakness; a trademark of small minds; free speech is that they are free ben Rogers, Jeff “Tain” Watts, Rogerio Bocatto, Jazz Standard to say what they like, but if anyone  Duke Ellington Orch, Duke & Ella’s 100th Birthdays, Blue Note a property of all small minds, yet a property  All Sides of Ella with Ulysses Owens, Jr. & Friends, Dizzy’s Club which even the smallest is ashamed of; says anything back that Coca Cola and when accused of its possession will is an outrage.”  Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra, Birdland lyingly deny it and resent the  Vocal Masterclass with Marion Cowings; Ai Murakami Trio feat. Sacha Perry; Lezlie Harrison Quartet; Joe Magnarelli Quartet; Hillel Salem - accusation as an insult.” After-hours Jam Session, Small’s.

- Winston Churchill -Mark Twain  Tuesday April 25

 Bill Stewart Trio, Walter Smith III (tenor sax) Larry Grenadier (bass) Bill Stewart (drums), Village Vanguard  Soul’d Out (the finale), Maurice Brown, Chelsea Baratz, Chad Selph, Marcus Machado, Antoine Katz, Joe Blaxx, Saunders Sermons, Jazz Standard  Duke Ellington Orchestra Celebrating Duke & Ella’s 100th Birthdays, Blue Note  Lauren Sevian, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Jane Monheit, Birdland  Steve Nelson Group; Abraham Burton Quartet, Small’s

Wednesday April 26

 Bill Stewart Trio, Walter Smith III (tenor sax) Larry Grenadier (bass) Bill Stewart (drums), Village Vanguard  Pedro Giraudo Big Band, Jazz Standard  Duke Ellington Orchestra Celebrating Duke & Ella’s 100th Birthdays, Blue Note  Jane Monheit, Birdland  Tim Armacost Quartet; Sam Raderman Quintet; Aaron Seeber - After- hours Jam Session, Small’s

Thursday April 27

 Bill Stewart Trio, Walter Smith III (tenor sax) Larry Grenadier (bass) Bill Stewart (drums), Village Vanguard  Jimmy Greene with Aaron Goldberg, Doug Weiss, Otis Brown iii, Jazz Standard  Duke Ellington Orchestra Celebrating Duke & Ella’s 100th Birthdays, Blue Note  Christian Sands Quartet, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Celebrating Ella: The First Lady Of Jazz, Jazz At Lincoln Center Orchestra with Wynton Marsalis and vocalists Kenny Washington and Roberta Gambarini, Rose Theater, Jazz At Lincoln Center.  Jane Monheit, Birdland  Sanah Kadoura Group; Carlos Abadie Quintet; Jonathan Thomas - "After-hours" Jam Session, Small’s

Friday April 28

 Bill Stewart Trio, Walter Smith III (tenor sax) Larry Grenadier (bass) Bill Stewart (drums), Village Vanguard  Jimmy Greene, Aaron Goldberg, Doug Weiss, Jazz Standard  Duke Ellington Orchestra Celebrating Duke & Ella’s 100th Birthdays, Blue Note  All Sides of Ella with Ulysses Owens, Jr. & Friends, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Jane Monheit, Birdland  David Bixler Quintet; Anthony Wonsey Quartet; After-hours Jam Session with Joe Farnsworth, Small’s

Saturday April 29

 Bill Stewart Trio, Walter Smith III (tenor sax) Larry Grenadier (bass) Bill Stewart (drums), Village Vanguard  Jimmy Greene & Lovein Action, Mike Moreno, Renee Rosnes, Reu- ben Rogers, Jeff “Tain” Watts, Rogerio Bocatto, Jazz Standard  Duke Ellington Orchestra Celebrating Duke & Ella’s 100th Birthdays, Blue Note  All Sides of Ella with Ulysses Owens, Jr. & Friends, Dizzy’s Club Coca Cola  Jane Monheit, Birdland  Afternoon Jam Session; Andy Farber Septet; Anthony Wonsey Quar- tet; Brooklyn Circle, Small’s

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 17 Clubs,Clubs, VenuesVenues && JazzJazz ResourcesResources

5 C Cultural Center, 68 Avenue C. 212-477-5993. www.5ccc.com City Winery, 155 Varick St. Bet. Vandam & Spring St., 212-608- 212-539-8778, joespub.com 55 Bar, 55 Christopher St. 212-929-9883, 55bar.com 0555. citywinery.com John Birks Gillespie Auditorium (see Baha’i Center) 92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128, Cleopatra’s Needle, 2485 Broadway (betw 92nd & 93rd), 212-769- Jules Bistro, 65 St. Marks Pl, 212-477-5560, julesbistro.com 212.415.5500, 92ndsty.org 6969, cleopatrasneedleny.com Kasser Theater, 1 Normal Av, Montclair State College, Montclair, Aaron Davis Hall, City College of NY, Convent Ave., 212-650- Club Bonafide, 212 W. 52nd, 646-918-6189. clubbonafide.com 973-655-4000, montclair.edu 6900, aarondavishall.org C’mon Everybody, 325 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn. Key Club, 58 Park Pl, Newark, NJ, 973-799-0306, keyclubnj.com Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center, Broadway & 65th St., 212-875- www.cmoneverybody.com Kitano Hotel, 66 Park Ave., 212-885-7119. kitano.com 5050, lincolncenter.org/default.asp Copeland’s, 547 W. 145th St. (at Bdwy), 212-234-2356 Knickerbocker Bar & Grill, 33 University Pl., 212-228-8490, Allen Room, Lincoln Center, Time Warner Center, Broadway and Cornelia St Café, 29 Cornelia, 212-989-9319 knickerbockerbarandgrill.com 60th, 5th floor, 212-258-9800, lincolncenter.org Count Basie Theatre, 99 Monmouth St., Red Bank, New Jersey Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St, 212-219-3132, knittingfacto- American Museum of Natural History, 81st St. & Central Park 07701, 732-842-9000, countbasietheatre.org ry.com W., 212-769-5100, amnh.org Crossroads at Garwood, 78 North Ave., Garwood, NJ 07027, Langham Place — Measure, Fifth Avenue, 400 Fifth Avenue Antibes Bistro, 112 Suffolk Street. 212-533-6088. 908-232-5666 New York, NY 10018, 212-613-8738, langhamplacehotels.com www.antibesbistro.com Cutting Room, 19 W. 24th St, 212-691-1900 La Lanterna (Bar Next Door at La Lanterna), 129 MacDougal St, Arthur’s Tavern, 57 Grove St., 212-675-6879 or 917-301-8759, Dizzy’s Club, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor, 212-258-9595, New York, 212-529-5945, lalanternarcaffe.com arthurstavernnyc.com jalc.com Le Cirque Cafe, 151 E. 58th St., lecirque.com Arts Maplewood, P.O. Box 383, Maplewood, NJ 07040; 973-378- DROM, 85 Avenue A, New York, 212-777-1157, dromnyc.com Le Fanfare, 1103 Manhattan Ave., Brooklyn. 347-987-4244. 2133, artsmaplewood.org The Ear Inn, 326 Spring St., NY, 212-226-9060, earinn.com www.lefanfare.com Avery Fischer Hall, Lincoln Center, Columbus Ave. & 65th St., East Village Social, 126 St. Marks Place. 646-755-8662. Le Madeleine, 403 W. 43rd St. (betw 9th & 10th Ave.), New York, 212-875-5030, lincolncenter.org www.evsnyc.com New York, 212-246-2993, lemadeleine.com BAM Café, 30 Lafayette Av, Brooklyn, 718-636-4100, bam.org Edward Hopper House, 82 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 854-358- Les Gallery Clemente Soto Velez, 107 Suffolk St, 212-260-4080 Bar Chord, 1008 Cortelyou Rd., Brooklyn, barchordnyc.com 0774. Lexington Hotel, 511 Lexington Ave. (212) 755-4400. Bar Lunatico, 486 Halsey St., Brooklyn. 718-513-0339. El Museo Del Barrio, 1230 Fifth Ave (at 104th St.), Tel: 212-831- www.lexinghotelnyc.com 222.barlunatico.com 7272, Fax: 212-831-7927, elmuseo.org Live @ The Falcon, 1348 Route 9W, Marlboro, NY 12542, Barbes, 376 9th St. (corner of 6th Ave.), Park Slope, Brooklyn, Esperanto, 145 Avenue C. 212-505-6559. www.esperantony.com Living Room, 154 Ludlow St. 212-533-7235, livingroomny.com 718-965-9177, barbesbrooklyn.com The Falcon, 1348 Rt. 9W, Marlboro, NY., 845) 236-7970, The Local 269, 269 E. Houston St. (corner of Suffolk St.), NYC Barge Music, Fulton Ferry Landing, Brooklyn, 718-624-2083, Fat Cat, 75 Christopher St., 212-675-7369, fatcatjazz.com Makor, 35 W. 67th St., 212-601-1000, makor.org bargemusic.org Fine and Rare, 9 East 37th Street. www.fineandrare.nyc Lounge Zen, 254 DeGraw Ave, Teaneck, NJ, (201) 692-8585, B.B. King’s Blues Bar, 237 W. 42nd St., 212-997-4144, Five Spot, 459 Myrtle Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 718-852-0202, fivespot- lounge-zen.com bbkingblues.com soulfood.com Maureen's Jazz Cellar, 2 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 845-535-3143. Beacon Theatre, 74th St. & Broadway, 212-496-7070 Flushing Town Hall, 137-35 Northern Blvd., Flushing, NY, 718- maureensjazzcellar.com Beco Bar, 45 Richardson, Brooklyn. 718-599-1645. 463-7700 x222, flushingtownhall.org Maxwell’s, 1039 Washington St, Hoboken, NJ, 201-653-1703 www.becobar.com For My Sweet, 1103 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY 718-857-1427 McCarter Theater, 91 University Pl., Princeton, 609-258-2787, Bickford Theatre, on Columbia Turnpike @ Normandy Heights Galapagos, 70 N. 6th St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-782-5188, galapago- mccarter.org Road, east of downtown Morristown. 973-744-2600 sartspace.com Merkin Concert Hall, Kaufman Center, 129 W. 67th St., 212-501 Birdland, 315 W. 44th St., 212-581-3080 Garage Restaurant and Café, 99 Seventh Ave. (betw 4th and -3330, ekcc.org/merkin.htm Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd, 212-475-8592, bluenotejazz.com Bleecker), 212-645-0600, garagerest.com Metropolitan Room, 34 West 22nd St NY, NY 10012, 212-206- Bourbon St Bar and Grille, 346 W. 46th St, NY, 10036, Garden Café, 4961 Broadway, by 207th St., New York, 10034, 0440 212-245-2030, [email protected] 212-544-9480 Mezzrow, 163 West 10th Street, Basement, New York, NY Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (at Bleecker), 212-614-0505, Gin Fizz, 308 Lenox Ave, 2nd floor. (212) 289-2220. 10014. 646-476-4346. www.mezzrow.com bowerypoetry.com www.ginfizzharlem.com Minton’s, 206 W 118th St., 212-243-2222, mintonsharlem.com BRIC House, 647 Fulton St. Brooklyn, NY 11217, 718-683-5600, Ginny’s Supper Club, 310 Malcolm X Boulevard Manhattan, NY Mirelle’s, 170 Post Ave., Westbury, NY, 516-338-4933 http://bricartsmedia.org 10027, 212-792-9001, http://redroosterharlem.com/ginnys/ MIST Harlem, 46 W. 116th St., myimagestudios.com Brooklyn Public Library, Grand Army Plaza, 2nd Fl, Brooklyn, Glen Rock Inn, 222 Rock Road, Glen Rock, NJ, (201) 445-2362, Mixed Notes Café, 333 Elmont Rd., Elmont, NY (Queens area), NY, 718-230-2100, brooklynpubliclibrary.org glenrockinn.com 516-328-2233, mixednotescafe.com Café Carlyle, 35 E. 76th St., 212-570-7189, thecarlyle.com GoodRoom, 98 Meserole, Bklyn, 718-349-2373, goodroombk.com. Montauk Club, 25 8th Ave., Brooklyn, 718-638-0800, Café Loup, 105 W. 13th St. (West Village) , between Sixth and Green Growler, 368 S, Riverside Ave., Croton-on-Hudson NY. montaukclub.com Seventh Aves., 212-255-4746 914-862-0961. www.thegreengrowler.com Moscow 57, 168½ Delancey. 212-260-5775. moscow57.com Café St. Bart’s, 109 E. 50th St, 212-888-2664, cafestbarts.com Greenwich Village Bistro, 13 Carmine St., 212-206-9777, green- Muchmore’s, 2 Havemeyer St., Brooklyn. 718-576-3222. nd Cafe Noctambulo, 178 2 Ave. 212-995-0900. cafenoctam- wichvillagebistro.com www.muchmoresnyc.com bulo.com Harlem on 5th, 2150 5th Avenue. 212-234-5600. Mundo, 37-06 36th St., Queens. mundony.com Caffe Vivaldi, 32 Jones St, NYC; caffevivaldi.com www.harlemonfifth.com Museum of the City of New York, 1220 Fifth Ave. (between Candlelight Lounge, 24 Passaic St, Trenton. 609-695-9612. Harlem Tea Room, 1793A Madison Ave., 212-348-3471, har- 103rd & 104th St.), 212-534-1672, mcny.org Carnegie Hall, 7th Av & 57th, 212-247-7800, carnegiehall.org lemtearoom.com Musicians’ Local 802, 332 W. 48th, 718-468-7376 Cassandra’s Jazz, 2256 7th Avenue. 917-435-2250. cassan- Hat City Kitchen, 459 Valley St, Orange. 862-252-9147. National Sawdust, 80 N. 6th St., Brooklyn. 646-779-8455. drasjazz.com hatcitykitchen.com www.nationalsawdust.org Chico’s House Of Jazz, In Shoppes at the Arcade, 631 Lake Ave., Havana Central West End, 2911 Broadway/114th St), NYC, Newark Museum, 49 Washington St, Newark, New Jersey 07102- Asbury Park, 732-774-5299 212-662-8830, havanacentral.com 3176, 973-596-6550, newarkmuseum.org Highline Ballroom, 431 West 16th St (between 9th & 10th Ave. New Jersey Performing Arts Center, 1 Center St., Newark, NJ, highlineballroom.com, 212-414-4314. 07102, 973-642-8989, njpac.org Hopewell Valley Bistro, 15 East Broad St, Hopewell, NJ 08525, New Leaf Restaurant, 1 Margaret Corbin Dr., Ft. Tryon Park. 212- 609-466-9889, hopewellvalleybistro.com 568-5323. newleafrestaurant.com Hudson Room, 27 S. Division St., Peekskill NY. 914-788-FOOD. New School Performance Space, 55 W. 13th St., 5th Floor (betw hudsonroom.com 5th & 6th Ave.), 212-229-5896, newschool.edu. Hyatt New Brunswick, 2 Albany St., New Brunswick, NJ New School University-Tishman Auditorium, 66 W. 12th St., 1st “A system of morality IBeam Music Studio, 168 7th St., Brooklyn, ibeambrooklyn.com Floor, Room 106, 212-229-5488, newschool.edu INC American Bar & Kitchen, 302 George St., New Brunswick New York City Baha’i Center, 53 E. 11th St. (betw Broadway & which is based on relative NJ. (732) 640-0553. www.increstaurant.com University), 212-222-5159, bahainyc.org emotional values is a mere Iridium, 1650 Broadway, 212-582-2121, iridiumjazzclub.com North Square Lounge, 103 Waverly Pl. (at MacDougal St.), Jazz 966, 966 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-638-6910 212-254-1200, northsquarejazz.com illusion, a thoroughly vulgar Jazz at Lincoln Center, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org Oak Room at The Algonquin Hotel, 59 W. 44th St. (betw 5th and conception which has nothing  Frederick P. Rose Hall, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor 6th Ave.), 212-840-6800, thealgonquin.net  Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola, Reservations: 212-258-9595 Oceana Restaurant, 120 West 49th St, New York, NY 10020 sound in it and nothing true.”  Rose Theater, Tickets: 212-721-6500, The Allen Room, Tickets: 212-759-5941, oceanarestaurant.com 212-721-6500 Orchid, 765 Sixth Ave. (betw 25th & 26th St.), 212-206-9928 Jazz Gallery, 1160 Bdwy, (212) 242-1063, jazzgallery.org The Owl, 497 Rogers Ave, Bklyn. 718-774-0042. www.theowl.nyc The Jazz Spot, 375 Kosciuszko St. (enter at 179 Marcus Garvey Palazzo Restaurant, 11 South Fullerton Avenue, Montclair. 973- Blvd.), Brooklyn, NY, 718-453-7825, thejazz.8m.com 746-6778. palazzonj.com Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St., 212-576-2232, jazzstandard.net Priory Jazz Club: 223 W Market, Newark, 07103, 973-639-7885 — Socrates — Anton Chekhov Joe’s Pub at the Public Theater, 425 Lafayette St & Astor Pl., Proper Café, 217-01 Linden Blvd., Queens, 718-341-2233

18 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 Prospect Park Bandshell, 9th St. & Prospect Park W., Brooklyn, Zankel Hall, 881 7th Ave, New York, 212-247-7800 NY, 718-768-0855 Zinc Bar, 82 West 3rd St.

Prospect Wine Bar & Bistro, 16 Prospect St. Westfield, NJ, RECORD STORES 908-232-7320, 16prospect.com, cjayrecords.com Academy Records, 12 W. 18th St., New York, NY 10011, 212-242 “It is curious that physical courage Red Eye Grill, 890 7th Av (56th), 212-541-9000, redeyegrill.com -3000, http://academy-records.com should be so common in the world Ridgefield Playhouse, 80 East Ridge, parallel to Main St., Downtown Music Gallery, 13 Monroe St, New York, NY 10002, and moral courage so rare.” Ridgefield, CT; ridgefieldplayhouse.org, 203-438-5795 (212) 473-0043, downtownmusicgallery.com Rockwood Music Hall, 196 Allen St, 212-477-4155 Jazz Record Center, 236 W. 26th St., Room 804, Rose Center (American Museum of Natural History), 81st St. 212-675-4480, jazzrecordcenter.com (Central Park W. & Columbus), 212-769-5100, amnh.org/rose MUSIC STORES — Mark Twain Rose Hall, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org Roberto’s Woodwind & Brass, 149 West 46th St. NY, NY 10036, Rosendale Café, 434 Main St., PO Box 436, Rosendale, NY 12472, 646-366-0240, robertoswoodwind.com Queens College — Copland School of Music, City University of 845-658-9048, rosendalecafe.com Sam Ash, 333 W 34th St, New York, NY 10001 NY, Flushing, 718-997-3800 Rubin Museum of Art - “Harlem in the Himalayas”, 150 W. 17th Phone: (212) 719-2299 samash.com Rutgers Univ. at New Brunswick, Jazz Studies, Douglass Cam- St. 212-620-5000. rmanyc.org Sadowsky Guitars Ltd, 2107 41st Avenue 4th Floor, Long Island pus, PO Box 270, New Brunswick, NJ, 908-932-9302 Rutgers University Institute of Jazz Studies, 185 University Rustik, 471 DeKalb Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 347-406-9700, City, NY 11101, 718-433-1990. sadowsky.com Avenue, Newark NJ 07102, 973-353-5595 rustikrestaurant.com Steve Maxwell Vintage Drums, 723 7th Ave, 3rd Floor, New newarkrutgers.edu/IJS/index1.html St. Mark’s Church, 131 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.), 212-674-6377 York, NY 10019, 212-730-8138, maxwelldrums.com SUNY Purchase, 735 Anderson Hill, Purchase, 914-251-6300 St. Nick’s Pub, 773 St. Nicholas Av (at 149th), 212-283-9728 SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, CONSERVATORIES Swing University (see Jazz At Lincoln Center, under Venues) St. Peter’s Church, 619 Lexington (at 54th), 212-935-2200, 92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128 William Paterson University Jazz Studies Program, 300 Pompton saintpeters.org 212.415.5500; 92ndsty.org Rd, Wayne, NJ, 973-720-2320 Sasa’s Lounge, 924 Columbus Ave, Between 105th & 106th St. Brooklyn-Queens Conservatory of Music, 42-76 Main St., RADIO NY, NY 10025, 212-865-5159, sasasloungenyc.yolasite.com Flushing, NY, Tel: 718-461-8910, Fax: 718-886-2450 WBGO 88.3 FM, 54 Park Pl, Newark, NJ 07102, Tel: 973-624- Brooklyn Conservatory of Music, 58 Seventh Ave., Brooklyn, Savoy Grill, 60 Park Place, Newark, NJ 07102, 973-286-1700 8880, Fax: 973-824-8888, wbgo.org NY, 718-622-3300, brooklynconservatory.com WCWP, LIU/C.W. Post Campus Schomburg Center, 515 Malcolm X Blvd., 212-491-2200, City College of NY-Jazz Program, 212-650-5411, nypl.org/research/sc/sc.html WFDU, http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html Drummers Collective, 541 6th Ave, New York, NY 10011, WKCR 89.9, Columbia University, 2920 Broadway Shanghai Jazz, 24 Main St., Madison, NJ, 973-822-2899, shang- 212-741-0091, thecoll.com Mailcode 2612, NY 10027, 212-854-9920, columbia.edu/cu/wkcr haijazz.com Five Towns College, 305 N. Service, 516-424-7000, x Hills, NY ADDITIONAL JAZZ RESOURCES ShapeShifter Lab, 18 Whitwell Pl, Brooklyn, NY 11215 Greenwich House Music School, 46 Barrow St., Tel: 212-242- Big Apple Jazz, bigapplejazz.com, 718-606-8442, gor- shapeshifterlab.com 4770, Fax: 212-366-9621, greenwichhouse.org [email protected] Showman’s, 375 W. 125th St., 212-864-8941 Juilliard School of Music, 60 Lincoln Ctr, 212-799-5000 Louis Armstrong House, 34-56 107th St, Corona, NY 11368, Sidewalk Café, 94 Ave. A, 212-473-7373 LaGuardia Community College/CUNI, 31-10 Thomson Ave., 718-997-3670, satchmo.net Long Island City, 718-482-5151 Sista’s Place, 456 Nostrand, Bklyn, 718-398-1766, sistasplace.org Institute of Jazz Studies, John Cotton Dana Library, Rutgers- Lincoln Center — Jazz At Lincoln Center, 140 W. 65th St., Skippers Plane St Pub, 304 University Ave. Newark NJ, 973-733- Univ, 185 University Av, Newark, NJ, 07102, 973-353-5595 10023, 212-258-9816, 212-258-9900 9300, skippersplaneStpub.com Jazzmobile, Inc., jazzmobile.org Long Island University — Brooklyn Campus, Dept. of Music, Jazz Museum in Harlem, 104 E. 126th St., 212-348-8300, Smalls Jazz Club, 183 W. 10th St. (at 7th Ave.), 212-929-7565, University Plaza, Brooklyn, 718-488-1051, 718-488-1372 jazzmuseuminharlem.org SmallsJazzClub.com Manhattan School of Music, 120 Claremont Ave., 10027, Jazz Foundation of America, 322 W. 48th St. 10036, Smith’s Bar, 701 8th Ave, New York, 212-246-3268 212-749-2805, 2802, 212-749-3025 212-245-3999, jazzfoundation.org Sofia’s Restaurant - Club Cache’ [downstairs], Edison Hotel, NJ City Univ, 2039 Kennedy Blvd., Jersey City, 888-441-6528 New Jersey Jazz Society, 1-800-303-NJJS, njjs.org 221 W. 46th St. (between Broadway & 8th Ave), 212-719-5799 New School, 55 W. 13th St., 212-229-5896, 212-229-8936 New York Blues & Jazz Society, NYBluesandJazz.org South Gate Restaurant & Bar, 154 Central Park South, 212-484- NY University, 35 West 4th St. Rm #777, 212-998-5446 Rubin Museum, 150 W. 17th St, New York, NY, 5120, 154southgate.com NY Jazz Academy, 718-426-0633 NYJazzAcademy.com 212-620-5000 ex 344, rmanyc.org. Princeton University-Dept. of Music, Woolworth Center Musical South Orange Performing Arts Center, One SOPAC Studies, Princeton, NJ, 609-258-4241, 609-258-6793 Way, South Orange, NJ 07079, sopacnow.org, 973-313-2787  Spectrum, 2nd floor, 121 Ludlow St. Spoken Words Café, 266 4th Av, Brooklyn, 718-596-3923 Stanley H. Kaplan Penthouse, 165 W. 65th St., 10th Floor, 212-721-6500, lincolncenter.org The Stone, Ave. C & 2nd St., thestonenyc.com th Strand Bistro, 33 W. 37 St. 212-584-4000 SubCulture, 45 Bleecker St., subculturenewyork.com PAY ONLY FOR Sugar Bar, 254 W. 72nd St, 212-579-0222, sugarbarnyc.com Swing 46, 349 W. 46th St.(betw 8th & 9th Ave.), 212-262-9554, swing46.com Symphony Space, 2537 Broadway, Tel: 212-864-1414, Fax: 212- 932-3228, symphonyspace.org Tea Lounge, 837 Union St. (betw 6th & 7th Ave), Park Slope, Broooklyn, 718-789-2762, tealoungeNY.com Terra Blues, 149 Bleecker St. (betw Thompson & LaGuardia), RESULTS 212-777-7776, terrablues.com Threes Brewing, 333 Douglass St., Brooklyn. 718-522-2110. www.threesbrewing.com Tito Puente’s Restaurant and Cabaret, 64 City Island Avenue, City Island, Bronx, 718-885-3200, titopuentesrestaurant.com Tomi Jazz, 239 E. 53rd St., 646-497-1254, tomijazz.com Tonic, 107 Norfolk St. (betw Delancey & Rivington), Tel: 212-358- 7501, Fax: 212-358-1237, tonicnyc.com Town Hall, 123 W. 43rd St., 212-997-1003 PUBLICITY! Triad Theater, 158 W. 72nd St. (betw Broadway & Columbus Ave.), 212-362-2590, triadnyc.com Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers St, 10007, [email protected], tribecapac.org Trumpets, 6 Depot Square, Montclair, NJ, 973-744-2600, Get Hundreds Of Media Placements — trumpetsjazz.com Turning Point Cafe, 468 Piermont Ave. Piermont, N.Y. 10968 ONLINE — Major Network Media & Authority Sites & (845) 359-1089, http://turningpointcafe.com Urbo, 11 Times Square. 212-542-8950. urbonyc.com OFFLINE — Distribution To 1000’s of Print & Broadcast Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S., 212-255-4037 Vision Festival, 212-696-6681, [email protected], Networks To Promote Your Music, Products & Watchung Arts Center, 18 Stirling Rd, Watchung, NJ 07069, Performances In As Little As 24 Hours To Generate 908-753-0190, watchungarts.org Watercolor Café, 2094 Boston Post Road, Larchmont, NY 10538, Traffic, Sales & Expanded Media Coverage! 914-834-2213, watercolorcafe.net Weill Recital Hall, Carnegie Hall, 57th & 7th Ave, 212-247-7800 Williamsburg Music Center, 367 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, NY www.PressToRelease.com | MusicPressReleaseDistribution.com | 215-600-1733 11211, (718) 384-1654 wmcjazz.org

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 19

InterviewInterview

Steve Peck Road Manager, Buddy Rich Big Band

By Eric Nemeyer bigger than his bite, during the time that I knew him. There were some Jazz Inside: As Buddy Rich’s manager, you be- stories that floated around that he came an expert at handling highly emotional, sensi- became physical and he was pun- tive and creative people—would that be accurate? ished for it. Over the course of his career, he came across as a real tough Steve Peck: That’s not far off. When dealing with guy, and hard to handle talent. He the level that Buddy was at—you’d have to put him hurt himself. My personal input to in the genius category someplace—there’s always this is that he was as big a talent as some deficit that comes with genius. Entertainers you can get. It wasn’t just playing especially have deficits when it comes to social drums, as far as a show, it was elec- behavior. Buddy was probably at the top of that list trifying. Most of the audience waited in most cases. He was really a very, very shy guy. for that last ten minute drum solo, He was like a Boy Scout and sometimes a Cub really the band was supporting Bud- Scout leader for the band. He was like a travel dy that whole time, till they got what agent. Sometimes it was really very good and at they wanted. times—which were in the minority—it was very, very bad, as far as social engagement on the bus… JI: Did he ever tap dance when you it would depend on the band and where we were were with him? going. A smaller size town or city compared to

New York or Chicago or LA or San Francisco… SP: As a matter of fact, he did a little nemeyerEric © key places on our itineraries had to be right. And if jig every night. If you want to say on they weren’t, there was a degree of animosity that the stage, no. But he got himself up came off the drums toward the band…back to the by loosening up…it was like a thing for him. There professional level—which is a history story of genius category. There’s an ego involved with was one show where we were doing a tour of Eu- where he began. From a very young age, from what genius, in the celebrity world, that I was exposed rope with Sammy Davis, and we were in England. I understand from pictures I’ve seen and people to. I don’t know about all of these guys, but if it’s Buddy was the honored guest and Sammy came on I’ve spoken to, he was like a learning machine. He not number one, it’s tough. I remember Buddy, on unexpectedly and they did a tap-dance number…or soaked up everything that he saw. Till the last day, a number of occasions, went head-to-head with a sand dance number—they spread some sand on he had this genius memory. He could remember some pretty big talent over who got billing…Mel the stage and they were doing a shuffle kind of everything that he had ever played and remember Tormé comes to mind. He wanted to be number thing and then they got into a tap dance and Sam- the lyrics to every song that he had ever heard and one and Buddy wanted to be number one, so they my decided he was going to upstage Buddy, as far he knew how it was supposed to be. He had a tre- wound up putting them side by side. On certain as cameras were concerned, and got in front of mendous repertoire. Enormous. As far as musical occasions it became problematic and quite interest- him. Buddy never wanted to be upstaged by any- ability, he could play just about every instrument ing. It led to some head-butting and some name- body so he kind of really took it up a notch and put and he knew what was supposed to come out of it; calling. It was eye opening and psychologically Sammy away. Sammy realized what was going aside from the fact the he couldn’t read music, he had the musical genius of not perfect pitch but

perfect memory and he knew what was supposed to be. He couldn’t tell a player if he was sharp or flat, “From a very young age...he was like he just knew that it wasn’t right. And when it was wrong, he went after him, the same way anybody at that moment he’s coming after. To get it right and a learning machine. He soaked up to get your students, apprentices up to that night’s level. Do it the way it’s supposed to be done, which everything that he saw. Till the last was what was drilled into him through his whole career. Every time he played, like with Tommy day, he had this genius memory.” Dorsey or with Artie Shaw, all of these guys had that same “had to have it right” kind of thing. Oth- erwise you’re out of here.

very challenging to be able to read him without on—that he had turned Buddy into a monster, so he JI: Why don’t you talk about how you came to be getting canned or yelled at. A lot of my tolerance to backed off. The emcee of the show, whoever it Buddy’s right hand man. How did that association being yelled at, was that I had a built in self- might have been, kind of realized that it was start- develop? defense mechanism, to know that he wasn’t yelling ing to get a little hot, so he busted it up. He learned at me personally…he just had to yell. So, if it was a from all of the greats in the tap dance business. He SP: Well, it was an accident…and it’s been an band or some poor guy that was trying to make a saw, every night at Vaudeville all the wonderful accident for many, many years. I say that with joy, hamburger for him or the person behind him on the dancing that was going on. Because you didn’t because it started out as just a fluke. I was sitting plane that was juggling his seat, he would yell… push a button and turn on the TV in those days. on the beach in a bathing suit in Fort Lauderdale… otherwise, he was a very pussy cat kind of guy. Live entertainment was all that existed. So, his first and a guy that worked for Buddy at that time came There’s no getting around it that his bark was much nineteen years, before he started playing drums at a down the street with Buddy’s car that had to be

20 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 SP: …of 1975. Well, I was living on the beach in a by having some super human thing built into him Buddy Rich / Steve Peck house with a couple of guys and a couple of girls that doesn’t exist in most people. You can work as were downstairs and I was upstairs. It was a differ- long as you want and you’ll never get to that level. ent time for me because I had just wound up with a I’m not saying that he was the best at what he did, taken to New York and be there in like a day and a separation and a divorce from a marriage and I but I’m saying there were very few people who half. He asked if anybody knew how to drive this decided—I was in my mid-thirties, and I had never could attain that. There was some kind of adrenal standard shift sports car. And I unfortunately an- done anything like this and it was like a good time rush behind it…he had extremely fast reflexes. swered, “Yes,” and he said, “Well take me around to see what the lifestyle would be. I had grown up When he plays you see a level of muscular ability, the block.” I did and he said, “Do you want to take in a pretty disciplined shall we say Brooklyn, Jew- fast reflexes, whatever, I’m just talking about his this to New York?” And I said, “Well, if you fly ish kind of thing? playing. I’m not talking about the musical part of me home, I’d be happy to.” Because it was a pretty the way he wanted to present his music. A lot of fancy car and you don’t get a chance to do this JI: Buddy Rich grew up in a Brooklyn, Jewish. times it was too loud—sometimes it scared people. often. So I went, “Yeah!” So, the next morning, I We had audiences with their fingers in their ears didn’t know this was going to happen but I was SP: Exactly. A whole bunch of good people came because they couldn’t handle it. When that curtain also going to be in the car with Buddy. In 1,000 out of Brooklyn, don’t get me wrong. It was a dif- opened man, it like hit you in the face with a wall miles of being shoulder to shoulder, we started ferent lifestyle for me. I had a business, a corporate of sound. That was the big band hit. That’s what he talking and stuff and he made me an offer that I life, of designing factories and that kind of went wanted to present. He played trio things and it was should have refused and we started a relationship. I was like, hanging with him. I guess the word today is chauffeur, but basically my job was to take care “He never played the same way…he of Buddy Rich—to make sure that he got from gig to gig. In the car, you’d better give him plenty of room, because it was like a hot car and it would go never played the same charts…it was really fast and do stuff that most cars and most drivers would be put off by. It was really a gas to always a different concert every be able to drive a machine like this around the country, hangin’ with Buddy Rich, going, “Man night. He excelled. He pushed himself look at that!” Because, I grew up playing drums...I can’t really say play. I wasn’t a player. I could play a set of drums. High school and college stuff, it to the point where he would walk off was like okay, but I was not a player. So that was- n’t my main career, but then I wound up sitting in a the stage drenched in sweat because sports car with Buddy. Man! This was one of my idols. At the beginning, the moon was aligned… he was playing in a very high athletic timing, of course is everything. For me to be there when that went down allowed me to…I was kind of like in between, like, “What am I going to do state.” tomorrow?”…I said, “Sure.” Fortunately, with my background, it turned out that I knew how to plug in a microphone and not kill myself and because I out of the way and Buddy came along. This was real laid back and it was great, because he was an could play drums and I was into some kind of mu- like late seventies and the Florida economy kind of amazing player…big band, little band, anything. sic…I was always a small group guy and to be in a tanked. There was an oil crisis. Just to try out And of course, he had a whole singing career after big band was like Man, look at this! For the first something different, I wound up getting on the bus his first heart attack, which never really got going. year or so, after being fired like three times, I final- and it was like an opportunity that very few people His first heart attack was in 1950-something and ly understood where he was coming from. get to do. I had a background in technical photog- they told him he’d never play drums again. When raphy. I’ve always liked taking pictures, it was a he had the other heart attack, it was in the early JI: And of course you were fired because of your natural off shoot for me, that I had cameras with eighties. I was right there where he had played a own incompetence, right? me. I got to some really great places and did some concert and said, “I’m really tired.” He had a heart super stuff that most people don’t get a chance to attack. We sent him to the hospital. I had just left SP: Well, or others,’ but I was the first guy in the do. I had some really frightening moments—near this man and he was fine. It was a massive heart line to get it. It’s kick the dog or kick Steve. So, he death experiences. As well as true death. Now that attack and the only reason he survived was that he would kick Steve or he would kick the lead trumpet I talk about it, it wasn’t a good time. Buddy passed realized and phoned the desk while lying on the player or whoever happened to be closest at the away in ’87, so, it was ’86 that he had a rough time floor of his room. It was a very eye-opening situa- time. It would be, “I’m not taking this kind of stuff. on the road. He was also having a hard time after tion at that time. They said he had like ninety-five I’ll see you later,” or it would be, “Get off the he had major quadruple bypass surgery. He never percent blockage on three coronary arteries, and bus!” And he’d leave you someplace in the middle really came back after that. He was playing, but it I’m going, “How could he play like he did last of nowhere. I’d have to find my way back to New was like forced. You’d never have known it. When night? This man is absolutely amazing.” He was York and go and get my back pay. Then after two he was onstage he was as good as he could be, playing on like five percent blood flow, but he got weeks the phone would ring and it would be, “Hey There was a subtlety about his playing—you have it across. man, what are you doing? Do you think you might to understand that I listened to Buddy more times be able to come out?” And I would say, “You’ve than probably anybody on this planet. Except for JI: You were telling me about that particular one got to be kidding me…after that?” And he’d say, Steve Marcus, nobody was on the band for more where you had just left New York City a couple of “Well, we’ll double your salary” or something like than like two years. That was it. It was a hard place days before to go on that tour. Maybe you want to and I would say, “Well, I’m not doing anything to spend a lot of time. I counted something like get into that a little? right now,” and I’d get on a plane or whatever and over 3,000 gigs and the only reason I could handle meet them wherever they were having trouble and that was because no two were the same. He never SP: Well, the Second Avenue Deli was one of the pick up the pieces. This was the way the first three played the same way…he never played the same stops on the way out of New York. It was like, or four years went. I started in 1975. charts…it was always a different concert every you’re going to pack up your stash. You’ve got a night. He excelled. He pushed himself to the point stash going out of New York of chopped liver and JI: And you were on the beach at Fort Lauder- where he would walk off the stage drenched in whatever other delicacies you can’t get on the road. dale…probably sometime in the winter? sweat because he was playing in a very high athlet- ic state. Drummers are athletes. Buddy was gifted (Continued on page 22)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 21 JI: What were some of the places that you and he to keep his heart rate from busting loose. He played Buddy Rich / Steve Peck enjoyed going cross country? in spite of that, but he paid a price. Because after that, he did thirty days touring Great Britain. We SP: There are a lot of miles between Chicago and almost lost him because he just didn’t have the (Continued from page 21) LA. He didn’t particularly like Las Vegas or Den- juice in him. We had to cancel one night. Then he JI: Was apple pie one of those? ver. The mid-west was good for him. He had great was right back on his regular schedule. The only response. When we got into the south…we didn’t exercise that he ever got was playing, so for eight SP: No, we bought apple pie on the road. That was do too much in the South. Florida, yes, because that hours during the day we sat on the bus. We had an one thing that didn’t stay in the cooler well. I’m was fairly transplanted Brooklyn-ites. Texas, we exer-cycle, we had a bicycle. We had all kinds of sorry you asked me that because that opens up a did a few going across, but Texas is a very long stuff, but he didn’t want to know about it. Buddy whole other area of diet on the road. It’s not the state. It takes you a thousand miles to get across it. was his own man, to get back to that part again. He greatest place to be. There’s only one stop you can After that is New Mexico, Nevada… knew his own body and wanted to do his own thing make with fifteen guys on the bus and get out of and continue on. there in ten minutes. It wasn’t like we were living JI: Of course, New Mexico has Roswell, where the the life of celebrity dining. It’s hard to eat on the famous UFO sightings occurred in 1947. Wasn’t JI: Tell me about Buddy and Frank Sinatra… road. Buddy had a preference for a particular brand Buddy interested in UFOs? and that’s the only place we went. It was like How- SP: A booking agent got word from Mr. Sinatra ard Johnson’s; you knew what the room was. I’m SP: Yes, he was very knowledgeable and he was that he would like to have Buddy’s band on a tour not saying it was Howard Johnson’s, but the room associated with a whole bunch of people…Dr. with him. Which was, unfortunately, probably the was standard issue, and you’d find the toothbrush Allen Hynek… worst thing that could ever happen to Buddy, be- holder in the same place everyplace you woke up. cause Buddy as an opening act in the middle of a JI: Who ran the Blue Book Project, which was a twenty thousand seat arena had to look like…ego, JI: Coming out of New York, he’d get a couple government cover-up project, then turned around right out of the box, you know. Thirty minutes of pounds of that chopped liver he liked. when he realized that this stuff was actually legit. high-powered, arm waving exaggerated playing— Buddy knew him? showmanship—in order to get that audience up for SP: ...and in about three days most of it was gone, Frank. He hurt himself because it wasn’t happening because that’s all he ate. There were New York SP: Yes he did. He visited him in Chicago, when every day. He didn’t have the hour and a half warm City hot dogs, too. You had to stop on Broadway he had his thing there. Roswell was not a place to -up. and 72nd street, otherwise it wasn’t New York. So, play. We played Los Alamos, which was a strange he lived in New York and he lived on the bus…and place to get to, because its really out in the middle JI: His thing was to do an hour and a half warm up loved Chicago. London was a great place because of the desert and I don’t even know why they did it, with the band and the finish with the finale… he could eat all the Italian food that he wanted. because nobody would know that it was there. It There were some favorite eating establishments. was built in amongst the canyons, but we played SP: With Frank, he had to be “on” all the time. Most of them were steak…and more steak, because there. Favorite places? LA, San Francisco was very That whole thirty minutes was like…drum solo. He he needed it in order to be able to get along. He good to him. But then it was also the hotels that he wasn’t doing it every night. Like, we would on the also consumed chocolate milkshakes a lot, which stayed at. When we got to San Francisco, it was the road and Frank would be on one night and be off were made when we were in the hotel. He took Paramount. In LA, it was Home. We would use four or five days, or the next weekend have another along Fox’s U-Bet by the case. Hershey’s didn’t major cities as a jumping off place. Rather than show. It wasn’t like Buddy’s usual thing. With his make it, but Fox’s U-Bet was a winner, because stay in smaller towns, we would drive two or three heart situation, and still recovering and not being as that’s what he grew up with. Buddy’s habits— hundred miles just to get back to a major city. young as he was, it was a hardship, and it showed. culinary, dining—he knew how to eat well, but it There aren’t too many places in Montana…east to The continuing diet… was like a very limited diet. That’s like, unfortu- west the whole state you’d never see anything— nately, some of the health problems in America. He like eight hundred miles and it takes you two days, JI: He didn’t change his diet after the… consumed stuff that he shouldn’t have, but he re- at ninety to drive across the state of Montana. fused, even after the heart attack, to give it up. He SP: No. Like I said, he was his guy. He wanted was like, smoke a few cigarettes…but man, you’re JI: Back to the recovery from the bypass… what he wanted. When I got into trouble with him not supposed to be smoking. He said, “I want to was when I would say, “no.” If anybody would say, smoke. Don’t tell me what not to do. Go buy me a SP: Well, there was no real recovery. We were “no, you can’t have that and you shouldn’t, “ he pack of cigarettes.” And I said, “You’re going to supposed to play Ann Arbor. Of course, that was would go out of his way to prove that he was going have to buy your own cigarettes, man.” Because I cancelled and Ed Shaughnessy came out with the to have it. And twice as much! So, he put on a gut, had recently quit and I just couldn’t enable him any band and played a couple of things. I guess it was he put on much too much weight, and the wrong more. And he knew it, so he had other people run maybe four or five weeks till Buddy got back to kind of weight for a recovering cardiac patient. for cigarettes. There were some things that I actually sitting behind a set of drums. I think he did This is like a word to the wise: you just don’t do wouldn’t do, mostly regarding his health, after that with Freddie Gruber. He was going to play. He this kind of stuff and get away with it. Unfortunate- almost losing him. It’s not a pretty sight to see a had this unbelievable drive. ly, he didn’t. If you do the best you can and you’re man in the hospital with all kinds of tubes sticking going to go, you’re going to go, but he wanted to out of him. He wasn’t just my employer, we were JI: When was this? go the way he wanted to. He could have changed really good friends. To see him in that condition his career. He could have played in a small band, was not pleasant. After he came back from the SP: 1983. Buddy said this to his doctor—it’s a but he wanted that power, he wanted that control. heart attack, he was changed. He was stopping to quote. The doctor said, “It’s too soon. You can’t go He wanted to put it out there. That was his thing, smell the flowers. You could actually talk him into back. You can’t do what you did for awhile.” He the big band. He could play amazing stuff—small going to the Grand Canyon and looking at some- convinced him enough to say, “Okay I’ll take an- group, he was just superb and if he played brushes, thing rather than just going ninety miles an hour other two weeks.” So the band flew over after eight nobody could take him. But he didn’t. across the country. We’d get to Chicago and there weeks, on a regular plane. Buddy flew on the Con- are some really good steak joints. The place for ribs cord. I met him at the airport. That night, he JI: What happened after the heart attack? was Miller’s in Chicago. I was hanging up there dressed the band in tuxedos. Normally, we played about a year ago. I went back to Miller’s and found Ronnie Scott’s in T-shirts, it was really casual. He SP: At that age and at that stage, with the damage that same table with the same picture, along with said, “Tonight I’m putting on a tux and we’re going that he incurred, he wasn’t as good internally. I all the other celebrities that go to Miller’s. So there to see if it works.” He was like stitched together don’t know how many calories a jazz drummer were places that he really enjoyed; were home to with wires and suture on his chest. After the show burns, but the sweat didn’t come from being nerv- him. he had his wrists in ice-water because he had swol- ous. It came from work. He sweat, that was part of len up. He was taking all kinds of suppressor drugs his thing. If he didn’t work up a sweat, he knew

22 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 recording dates that I had been on, whether it was son’s band… Buddy Rich / Steve Peck for RCA in a big fancy studio, or in a little place in Tennessee somewhere, he wasn’t at his best record- SP: So, when we did sit-down gigs for like a week, ed. I had made some tapes and there were tapes we would do them with somebody like Tony Ben- that he didn’t put out as much as he could have. He being made of live concerts which were much bet- nett…Frank—excuse me, Mr. Sinatra, or Mr. S. as really worked hard. At that level of his game, to be ter than the entire studio operation came out. The everyone called him, including Buddy, in occasion- able to do it for as long as he did and he didn’t sound quality wasn’t there, but the feel was there. ally sarcastic moments, because he was on a first want to lose it. He knew that if he lost it, he was The band was together. There was no pressure. The name basis. The two of them had quite a history hanging up his sticks, so he played it right out to microphones were one thing, but the guy sitting going on, which was in some other book that you the end. Through all the adversity, this was the behind the big console, the A and R guy, most of can read, but to hear Buddy’s side of it was quite show must go on Buddy. This was what he learned the time was looking for a particular sound, not something. To hear what the publishers thought growing up and this is what he had and that’s what what Buddy was playing. The end result never about Mr. Sinatra is something else. Not to belabor he tried to project to the world, that the show will really came out well. I made a bunch of good tapes. the point…that was one of the things that was en- go on. And he did. Johnny Carson knew when the I recorded the band every night for years and years joyable about the front of the bus. Buddy had this show was over. He knew when to hang up his with the first line tape recorder. This was not for amazing sense of humor and was very fast-witted. sticks, literally, because they played together. Bud- anybody else. In the early days we would lay out a He’d turn things upside down and inside out, like dy gave Johnny a drum set that Johnny played on. tour two, possibly three months at a time. Willard faster than you could blink. I’m not blowing my Johnny was playing with pencils on the stage ever since then. So it was like, for Buddy not to play at the level that he played…he went out playing. He “Buddy was gifted by having some died with his boots on, as they say. He did what he wanted to do and nobody was going to deter him from that band. We have to give him a lot of credit; super human thing built into him that at the same time we have to understand that he was driven. He was coming from a place that most of us doesn’t exist in most people. You can’t understand. Just to be able to perform at that level, in front of ten million people in his life- can work as long as you want and time—not counting TV, live performances—I might be exaggerating here, but how many people saw Buddy play? …And walked out of there with you’ll never get to that level. I’m not their jaws slack and going, “Oh my God! Look at what he just did! “And that’s how he ended, just saying that he was the best at what about every night. People were stunned at his per- formances. That’s a level that is very hard to keep he did, but I’m saying there were very on a consistent basis. So, perhaps, all those stories about the rage…the rage was part of his ability to be able to keep that level going. It was an adrena- few people who could attain that.” line rush. Whether he manufactured it from getting angry over the smallest thing, it just got him up there. And it allowed him to play at the level that Alexander was the big band agent, at the time. He own horn, but I understood what he was doing and he expected people to have. started out with Benny Goodman. He controlled the I could answer him in some strange way…I was big bands in America. You name the bandleader the straight man for Buddy Rich. JI: I think one of the first recordings you may have and he was connected to Willard, someplace along been around for was Buddy Rich Plays and Plays the way. I think Willard had a dozen agents work- JI: You were Bud Abbott and he was Lou Costello. and Plays. Barry Keiner was on that. They did one ing in the New York office and he had a few in on a specialty label, you know an audio file kind of Chicago, which took us across the country. The SP: Okay, it wasn’t that good, but it kept them a thing, where they did “Bouncin’ With Bud” and plan was to continue working our way around the entertained. He played from the front of the bus maybe “Birdland”… country doing one-nighters most of the time. If we with words a lot…I want to get back to the record- got into a major city, perhaps, we’d stay for a week ing of the band. It wasn’t for production, it wasn’t SP: We did some on, I recall, not a major label…I and do one-nighters out of there. On rare occasions, for outside, it was for the next day, riding down the think in a studio in Tennessee someplace. It wasn’t we’d do a sit-down gig—like a hotel…we were road, so Buddy could hear what the band was do- a major event. Most of Buddy’s recordings, unfor- doing the Paramount chain for a few years. They ing. He would critique himself and the band on that tunately, because of Buddy’s demands in the stu- were very nice. and it was without yelling and screaming. He dio, never really came off as well as a live perfor- would pass it around in the front of the bus which mance. If he had take two or take three, it just did- JI: More than one night at a time, you’re talking was mostly me and Steve Marcus. Marcus also had n’t have it. It wasn’t at a level with the first take, about… the sense of humor to be able to communicate with because he was putting it all out there…hardly any Buddy and keep him entertained and entertaining rehearsals. It was like, “Let’s not wear ourselves SP: Yeah, we’d do a week. Sometimes we’d be put us. That was an amazing source of the adventure. out folks. Let’s just give everything we’ve got… together with Anita O’Day. We’d go around to the To me, this whole thing was an adventure. I did roll the tape…full speed ahead.” Not to be cliché- various Paramounts and we’d do a week that way. something, like I said, that not too many people ish about it, but the engineers would put baffling Which is kind of not the whole story with Miss have an opportunity to do. It was a magic carpet… around the drums because the drums got into all the O’Day, because that was another era of course. We and at the same time, it was like, maybe I better other mics onstage. Because he didn’t want to be in were doing the old stuff with her. She had her rep- join the Marines because boot camp in the Marines an isolation booth, which is the way most record- ertoire, which she was known for. Buddy wouldn’t has got to be easier than what I’m doing today. The ings are made these days, also with a metronome play anything old, that was one of his things. He conditions, in some cases, were really horrendous. someplace—he wanted to have a live band playing didn’t want to live in the past; he wanted to play We had to do stuff that most other people don’t do, all together, the way they played onstage…and it present music. But Anita, of course, was classic in like ride eight hundred miles on a bus, play two would drive engineers crazy because they couldn’t those days and that’s what people wanted to hear, hours, get back on the bus and then keep on going. isolate the sound. “Hold it…we just ran out of so she sang it just like she did back then. All the Our destinations were obscure. The hardest part of tape” or “the cable broke,” or…all of these things phrasing…all the music… this gig was getting between gigs. That drone of the impeded him. So, by the time he got to take three diesel engine…endless. Most of the traveling we or four, it wasn’t like where he was at. So, all the JI: Like she did with Kenton and Maynard Fergu- (Continued on page 24)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 23 years to some really strong sound levels. -up comedy—even though he was sitting on the Buddy Rich / Steve Peck JI: Your value evidently increased because Buddy stage. He picked and chose his places and depend- took a liking to you and you kind of had a camara- ing on his mood, he could keep you in stitches. It derie and loyalty… was a level that was equal to. the comic genius (Continued from page 23) resided in him along with the musical genius. Not did was at night. It was easier to drive because you SP: We both came from Brooklyn… I was also to make light of that, he was a very funny guy, could go faster, without traffic. You’re driving with fired more than once. [mutual laughter] where he was not in a “well-known” situation… professionals and you’ve got to get there, to the like when he was on the Carson show, Johnny next town. So, after we’d play someplace, we’d get JI: Did you ever say, “You can’t fire me because I would call him something evil. He would joke with on the bus and drive—as an average—three or four quit?” Johnny at a level that was beyond most of the audi- hundred miles. These are the distances once you’re ence’s comprehension. A lot of really hip stuff was out past Chicago that you have to drive between SP: Oh yeah. That was a big yell-out one time. I going on backstage with the writers and Johnny towns. So, we’d drive, get to a place at six o’clock remember that. It was one time when I actually and Buddy and I was privy to that. Johnny was or seven o’clock in the morning, go to sleep, get almost got physical with him, though he could have extremely spontaneous…he had to be at that level. up, play the gig and then travel the next day again. whipped me in a minute. He would have taken my When Buddy was on a one-on-one onstage and the Buddy didn’t want to stay where he was…the eyes out and I wouldn’t have known it, or I would cameras were on, it was like the Buddy that Johnny Howard Johnson’s wouldn’t exist…the steak place have been minus a larynx, because he knew how to presented to the world. That helped Buddy’s career wouldn’t exist…the road, for him, when he first hurt somebody with his fingers and he was fast a great deal; international exposure. His booking started out, was really tougher than what we were enough that I couldn’t have defended myself—not agents used to take us into the back country—these doing. You didn’t go five hundred miles a night in that I wanted to. There was a trust that he wasn’t people saw him, knew who he was. The guy that those days. There weren’t interstates, there weren’t going to get violent. There were a couple of times was on the Carson show three or four times a year, the roads…Two lane highways that were poorly where we got head to head. I can’t tell you how which was unheard of. He was on probably more marked… many times I heard the phrase “two weeks” on the frequently than any other guest. He played the stage and if somebody would mis-cue an entrance drums on every show. JI: Earlier on, I guess, was when the firing and or blow a wrong note at the wrong time—it hap- hiring happened, after he realized how valuable pens—nobody on that stage was perfect, including JI: Do you remember if there were events where you were? Buddy. And he was his own worst enemy. He other celebrity jazz musicians or guest artists sat in would get hung up while he was doing something with the band? SP: I got more valuable as I went along. I started with a cross-arm and that kind of routine where increasing my worth by doing more and more. It you have no idea, it looks like a press being wound SP: That’s kind of a discography question, but I became, to me, a real challenge. Not to be funny up…and he would get mad at himself. If he would say Dizzy, on a number of occasions did about it, but it was a twenty four-seven kind of dropped a stick, it was like the worst offense a that. Not too many guests. He would announce thing. It was. I was the road manager, the tour man- drummer could make…you just blew the whole them in the audience. There’s a famous story about ager, the roadie that schlepped the stuff, set up the scene, now, by dropping a stick or getting it caught Buddy and Mel Tormé, which has been written drums, set up the sound, did the stage managing on the side of a drum and not being able to hang on about any number of times. It’s that Buddy was and the calling of all the lighting cues and whatever to it. It didn’t happen often, but when it did, he was playing this club in New York and he knew Mel and enjoyed the heck out of every night. I was his own worst enemy. He would come back fero- was going to be there. So he told the audience being treated to one of the great beautiful events of ciously. If he missed something that he tried to do, when he introduced Mel, to be silent…not to ap- our time, because there weren’t too many people he would go after it onstage. I’m talking about plaud, not to give Mel any kind of recognition. doing it. There were a few big bands left and I’ve during a solo, If he missed getting around like three Buddy introduced Mel. Mel stood up and that was got to give them an awful lot of credit because they drums—three drums is more than anybody needs— it. [laughter] With the practical jokes of Buddy and don’t make the millions of dollars on tour that the this is an aside by the way. Buddy didn’t, shall we Mel going at each other, it seems Buddy was al- rock and rollers make, or the pop musicians, or the say, appreciate some of the rock guys who had ways the giver and Mel the taker of jokes. I never light shows with all the costumes and smoke fourteen drums or more and surrounded themselves heard of Mel coming back at Buddy. In all of the bombs and all that stuff. Buddy was pure music. and could do triplets all around the world. His thing years Mel and Buddy were friends. But at one The lights could have been off and they would was like if you can’t do it on one snare drum then point—I’m not really sure what the disagreement have enjoyed themselves. In a lot of cases, we did- you’re not a drummer. The rest of that stuff was all was—but they wound up, even though they were n’t have a whole lot of light. When you played on a show and flash, you know and it sold drums to playing together, not speaking. I was kind of like high school stage somewhere in Nebraska, they kids. If you want to be a drummer, do it on one the intermediary. “He said that” and “No, he said barely got by with lights. We didn’t carry our own drum. So, it got pretty deep. Of course there are all this.” I was not the interpreter but I was speaking stuff. It was a bare bones operation. When I first kinds of stories about his temper. But, he came up for each voice because they wouldn’t listen to each joined, we didn’t even have our own sound con- playing with the very best players. On his way up, other. This went on even though they were sitting sole. It became totally unreliable, what was sup- he was screamed at. He learned this routine from on the same plane—they wouldn’t talk to each plied…I mean, it was in the contracts…you need other great bandleaders who were esteemed in the other. It was really strange. They were carrying on two microphones and a fifty watt amplifier. By the industry…nobody ever heard about this stuff until some kind of thing that was beyond me. There was time we got done, we had almost like rock and roll after they’d passed away. But basically, Buddy a lot of that. But at the same time, they’d be doing levels on stage monitors and we never even used grew up in that environment and that’s the only a week at a theatre in Stanford and there were ten house sound because the band was blowing so hard way he knew. people in the audience. It was like, what are we in most auditoriums that it was acoustic. So the doing here? Well, we have to finish the gig because only thing happening that was on stage was for JI: You want to share some of the funny stories? we won’t get paid. But how can they pay us if Buddy to hear what the band was doing. That was they’re losing money every night? We’re getting another amazing part of it was that he could still SP: Well, the funny stories, as relating to me… paid but only after we fulfill our contract. How do hear a pin drop or if somebody opened a potato what’s funny? Buddy had a tremendous sense of you play to ten people? Then one night, Mel came chip bag in the back of the bus, and it would annoy humor and he’d have an entire audience in stitches. in and asked how many people were in the audi- him to the point that he’d really go down on He would sit down at the end of the stage—which ence and I said, “Three.” He just did not believe him…”Don’t do that! No more eating on this bus! he did—and I don’t think there are that many tapes there were only three people that came out to see Are you kidding me?” He couldn’t hear onstage… of that kind of stuff going around. He would sit Buddy Rich and Mel Tormé in Stanford, Connecti- it was like, “These aren’t on!” And I’d run out down at the end of the first set and rather than go cut. I don’t know what the reason was—if nobody from the side, in the wings and I’m hearing four or on an intermission, he would sit down and talk to knew we were there or they just didn’t care, but five hundred watts of power coming out on the the audience. He would just joke around a bit and Stanford’s not too far from New York and we did drums and I’m going, “You can’t hear that?” I lost nobody would leave…the band would leave…but I really good business in that neighborhood. So, I my hearing because of being exposed over ten was there and I was witness to some amazing stand can’t answer that, but there are a number of times

24 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 Frank Sinatra/Buddy Rich association for probably they’re gone, but at the same time, I associated Buddy Rich / Steve Peck the last time, because there was some animosity with some genius at that part of my life, which I’m throughout their careers as to who had top billing. very grateful for. Barry Keiner was the only piano At one point Buddy wanted equal billing to Frank player that sat down and played one chord and I that we bombed. And it’s not a good feeling— at a show in New York and Mr. Sinatra’s people lost it. I’m going, like, how can someone play just especially for a marquee name—to bomb. I think said, “I don’t think so,” and Buddy said, “Well, I one chord and have such a sound to it that affected back on some of the Sinatra concerts where he ain’t gonna do the gig”. So, to answer that, the me so emotionally—and I am emotionally impact- would be looking out for people backstage before story went, Mr. Sinatra took second billing to ed by music—from the Star Spangled Banner to he went on to make sure the audience was a full Count Basie. The billing came out Count Basie and whatever. My wife can attest to that—I emote too house. his band…featuring Frank Sinatra, which was the much, sometimes. I don’t find that objectionable, total reverse of the way show biz was, because the for myself, I don’t understand the motivation for JI: What were some of the highlights of the Sina- band, at that point, was backing Mr. Sinatra. So, why I do that but its something that’s part of me. tra/Buddy Rich bookings that you observed? the attorneys had a field day with Buddy on some Not to get funny about it, but I’m not the only one; things. I was in between that, along with the Alex- otherwise music wouldn’t be listened to, along with SP: They were dynamite, you know. You play ander Agency, that got squashed…or became em- some of the other finer things in life that you appre- Royal Albert Hall for one week in London and sell barrassing. Unfortunately, it became embarrassing ciate. And I appreciate that at that time I was ex- the place out. People standing and cheering and enough that Buddy was still doing the one-nighters posed to the music world. I haven’t been, for quite throwing flowers on the stage. No matter where we in the mid-west instead of the well-paid, easy gigs. a while. After Buddy passed away, I kind of got out went, Frank had that ability. Even when he could- of the music world. All of those folks that I had n’t sing anymore, people would come out and they JI: So, there definitely was a dichotomy between associated with…its kind of like, they were then just adored the man. It was magic at a level most these one-nighters, specifically, and this gig where and this is now and as long as I’m not on that bus people wouldn’t understand. Even past his prime, you might not have played as much, but when the it’s a whole other world. When that door closed on so to speak because Frank was starting to lose it, gig did happen it was dollar signs; all the right the bus, it was another place. So, in retrospect, I even though he was continuing to perform. Every- locations, all the right everything, and things went really was close to everything that was going on body knew that he wasn’t happening at a hundred smoothly. I guess its hard for a lot of people to because of my job—that I had to do—but at the percent. It wasn’t the same guy that was out there imagine giving that up—many people work dec- same time, I really enjoyed what I was doing. I had ten or five or two years before. He had teleprompt- ades to get to that point—to just throw it away… a challenge. It was like I said before, I would have ers to keep him aware of what was going on with been better off in boot camp, because of the hard- the lyrics. When we first started, over like two or SP: Like I said, Buddy wanted to be his own guy ships. I wasn’t sloggin’ it in mud, but I was doing a three years of doing Frank’s stuff—it wasn’t a there too. Another instance that comes to mind— hard job and so was everybody else. This is not an continuous kind of thing.—there were moments this one kind of shows a sadness on Buddy’s part. easy thing to do. The pleasure of the two hours a that were just absolutely stunning…playing at We were doing Carnegie Hall and after the first night was what you were working for—to put that some great locations. He was just an amazing per- night or the second night that Buddy played, an show on as good as you can. That was the reward former. He didn’t even have to sing. He could elderly gentleman came back into the dressing to be able to be in a big town, a big arena, or a come out onstage and just stand there and people room and thanked Buddy for his performance and small one…and know that, like Buddy said, were just slack-jawed, just to be in his presence. welcomed him to the hall. He turned around and “You’ve exposed these people to a whole other One of the problems of touring with Mr. Sinatra left and Buddy said, “Who was that?” I said , “That level. And maybe they’ll be better because of it and was that he entertained after the show as well as was Isaac Stern,” and Buddy broke down, started to appreciate what we do here.” Those were some of during the show. If you went to a city someplace, tear up and was speechless. Aside from being em- the things that were highlights for me, throughout after the show, most of the time, there was a dinner barrassed about not knowing Mr. Stern; it was like all the years. Aside from listening to some really for the higher-ups in the band. The attorney gener- being welcomed to our home. For a jazz musician good players, every night in the jazz world and not als, the judges…maybe fifteen, twenty people. to be playing Carnegie Hall was like the Benny having it sound like a recording or a lip-synched There were receiving lines; it was almost like a Goodman concerts back in the late thirties, when show that’s run by a computer someplace. This was royalty situation. Part of Buddy’s obligation with they first brought jazz around to Carnegie Hall. So like live music—spontaneous jazz was what it was the show was to be at those receptions after the he felt very much honored, but at the same time about. That was the key thing for Buddy, to present show. Mr. Sinatra never sweat a drop, he’d walk extremely humbled by the reception that he got that kind of a show…to be able to say, “This is out in a tux and he’d finish in that suit and he’d go there. So, that was a highlight for me as well. That what we do and take it for what its worth. If you right to the event. On the other hand, Buddy would was a very, very touching moment, describing two don’t like me, tough.” We would play shows some- be drenched, would have to change his clothes and very high level gentlemen one on one. And Buddy times where we would get no response back from by the time he was done playing, to go to one of going, “Oh, I didn’t know.” But after the fact, he an audience and he’d say, “What am I doing these events—and Buddy was not what you would got his thing together and he was cool, but it was wrong?” I’d say, “It’s not what you’re doing call a high social animal—as a matter of fact he like one of the vulnerabilities that didn’t show of- wrong, its what are they doing wrong? Because kind of abhorred going to these events, but because ten with Mr. Rich. He was a very, very sensitive they don’t know, really, what you do here, so it was required, he went and stood in the receiving guy—he didn’t want that to be seen. That was not you’re teaching them at a very high level, and line. All of that stuff, so it was very politicized, but his image to the world. He was the tough guy; he you’re way over their heads.” In a more sophisti- that was part of Frank’s thing. After a while, Bud- came out of the gangster era. cated setting, no problem. To go into the deep dy started going like, “I really don’t want to do south, you’re doomed. They don’t know what this.” Eventually he didn’t do it, he didn’t show up. JI: Who were some of the musicians that came you’re doing. They’ve never heard of this kind of And it caused great anxiety and angst and ire on the through the band that you developed relationships stuff, so it was very geographical. We took our Sinatra side, because they expected Buddy to be with? music—Buddy’s music—all over the world. It was there. After the second failed attempt, I got some amazing the response that you got back:people pretty heavy phone calls from the hierarchy…we SP: Sadly enough, there was a dividing curtain on applauding for ten, fifteen minutes at the end of a got a call from New York in Atlanta—we were the band. There was the front of the bus and there show. How many encores can we play? You’d run supposed to do a show in Atlanta—we got the call were the rest of us. It was a strange hierarchy. Ste- out of stuff to do…you can’t top what you just did, that said, “You don’t have to do the show”…”What ve Marcus, Barry Keiner—who were roommates of besides your physically not being able to. There’s do you mean, we don’t have to do the show?” “Mr. mine, over the years—we were like the four mus- blood on the stage…there are trumpet players that Sinatra requests the lack of your company”… keteers. I say this out of sadness and out of respect are bleeding because their lips are split, because [mutual laughter]…and he flew in a New York for both Marcus and Keiner, who are no longer they’re blowing their hearts out…and that’s what studio guy to replace Buddy at great cost. The mes- with us. Barry passed away many years ago and he was looking for. sage was, “sorry but you let me down.” And that Steve not too long ago. It came as a total shock and was, according to Buddy, one of the few times in surprise. I’m the only guy left out of that musketeer  his entire life that he was ever fired. That ended the group so that gives me a real empty feeling that

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 25 solo. He taught me how to comp on a very high level because his soloing was so melodically rich. I Interview remember he once told me to start my solos in the Interview middle of the range of a particular melodic phrase,

rather than from the top to the bottom, as though I

were playing a pianistic scale exercise. Alan Holdsworth is another icon who has had a profound Billy Childs influence on me. I was intrigued by his harmonic

sense, which is one of the most sophisticated sys- tems I’ve ever checked out. He has this one tune, “when music takes on a spiritual dimension” “Looking Glass,” where it is essentially four-part chorale-type harmony. It’s very simple in its con- struction, but absolutely brilliant in its economy of By Gary Heimbauer place where music is a trade, mainly because of the voicing. He’ll have one note move in the middle of studio scene, whereas New York is a place where the chord and it will change the entire sound and JI: Over the years, you have continued to keep up you go to develop your playing and concept. While direct the progression in an entirely surprising yet quite a prolific pace as a composer and arranger. there is truth to that presumption, it’s a bit of a logical place. How does this process work for you? What inspires generalization and not always true - there are a lot you? of really individual, innovative, and original musi- JI: Who would be your ultimate dream band cians living in Los Angeles. On the other hand, (musicians could be dead or alive) and why? BC: The compositional process that I use depends there are a lot of New York musicians that punch in on the composition, or rather, the intent of the com- and out of a clock doing Broadway shows. But BC: I already have my dream band: Bob Sheppard, position. Sometimes I find it necessary to look generally speaking, I find that more often than not, Carol Robbins, Larry Koonse, Scott Colley, Brian inward, in order to express some sort of inner dark- it is true. Blade - or Jimmy Johnson, Antonio Sanchez. I’ve ness or deeply buried emotion. Sometimes it’s the been really fortunate in that musicians I really re- external world that inspires me - things in nature. JI: Could you talk about working with Chris Botti? spect find my music interesting enough to want to Trying to recreate a beautiful natural scenario in I saw your band at Newport and I loved the interac- be involved in it. music, just as French impressionism does. The tion with the audience. main goal for me is always to make a dramatic JI: What kinds of challenges do you face as an statement with my music, one that will make the BC: It has been really great. I guess I have a histo- independent artist, and what advice can you share listener feel the drama and have it relate to his/her ry of working with trumpet players: Freddie Hub- about overcoming one or more obstacles? own experience. When it comes to melody - a com- bard, Nat Adderley, and now Chris Botti. You ponent of the music that I feel is of the utmost im- mention interaction with the audience. Chris is one BC: Today’s music business paradigm is a double- portance - I wait for it to come to me. A beautiful of the most adept speakers I’ve ever encountered. edged sword. On the one hand, gone are the days melody, like a beautifully constructed sentence, is He really knows how to communicate verbally when a record company would sign an artist to a something that I cannot manufacture or rush. It has with an audience. The band is phenomenal with “record deal”, pay for everything including adver- to come from the soul and, I believe, it makes itself Billy Kilson on drums, Robert Hurst or Tim tising, tour-support, radio promotion, etc. Of evident. To me, it is a skill that cannot be taught in LeFebrve on bass, Mark Whitfield on guitar, me course, they would own the masters. Also, the days a classroom; it’s definitely the most difficult aspect and Chris. He works non-stop - somewhere in the are gone where people had only one way to hear of composing. I guess I would say that the older I range of 250+ days out of the year. music (the radio) and, more importantly, only one get, the more I’m willing to revise my music sever- way to buy it. So sales could be really tightly con- al times before finishing. JI: You’ve worked with Freddie Hubbard, Grover trolled and monitored (and manipulated). There Washington, J.J Johnson, Nat Adderley, Allan was more centralized control over the business aspect. On the other hand, the internet is becoming (if not already arrived) the main way that music is “When it comes to melody - a component of the consumed, be it iTunes, Amazon, CD baby, etc. Since technology has made it easier to produce music that I feel is of the utmost importance - I wait high quality CDs from your home, everybody and their mother has a CD out. So it’s easier to put out for it to come to me. A beautiful melody, like a a CD, but harder to distinguish yourself with your music. I would suggest to an independent artist to beautifully constructed sentence, is something that have a plan. Know why you’re putting out this music. Why would anyone want to buy it? What do you have to offer? Once you figure that out, then I I cannot manufacture or rush. It has to come from think that you need to have five basic things to shoot for. First, the CD that you make has to be the the soul and, I believe, it makes itself evident.” best that it can possibly be in all regards - the mu- sic, the packaging, the production, etc. Secondly, JI: You grew up on the West Coast. What are Holdsworth, Bobby Watson, Tony Williams etc. once having done the CD, distribution and fulfill- some notable differences you find in the life and What were some notable aspects of these experi- ment need to be worked out, whether it’s with an activities of a musician there versus the East? ences? What wisdom have you gathered through online label, a licensing thing with a traditional these experiences and how have these playing ex- label, or you do the whole thing yourself. Thirdly, a BC: Well, the differences have more to do with the periences affected your musicianship? publicist is essential - one who focuses on print, basic lifestyle differences between the two coasts. interviews, ads and reviews. Fourth, you need a One specific thing I can say is that I find it easier to BC: My main teacher, without question, would be radio promoter, someone whose job it is to make rehearse musicians in Los Angeles, simply because Freddie Hubbard. Also, J.J. Johnson figures very sure your stuff gets played on the radio. Finally, there is more space. Everyone has a car and can importantly in my development as a jazz musician. and by far the most difficult, you need a booking easily drive over to my house where I’ve converted I love Freddie and I miss him terribly. Sometimes agent. The previous four are things that are taken my garage into a rehearsal space. In New York, I when I hear old recordings of me playing with him, care of by paying money, but the agent has to be- have to rent the rehearsal space, and the musicians I understand the incredible patience he must’ve lieve in your work, because it’s gonna be an invest- have to worry about parking. On another note, exercised by simply withstanding the “youthful” ment of his/her time. But live bookings are essen- there is a tendency to think of Los Angeles as a comping decisions I’d make while he was trying to (Continued on page 27)

26 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 tial for spreading the word about your music.

JI: What were some of the inspiring sounds and sights and experiences that moved you to pursue this creative path? What kinds of studies or practice did you undertake to develop your skills?

BC: I came to the realization at age 14 that I want- ed to be a musician. I was basically in a situation where music was the only creative outlet that I had for a couple of years; I was in a boarding school for boys called Midland, in a rather rural part of Cali- fornia. So I’d be at the piano for about eight hours a day, trying to learn Emerson, Lake, and Palmer tunes. Later, at age 16, when I returned to Los An- geles, I took every music lesson my parents would pay for: theory, harmony, classical piano, jazz pi- ano, etc. I eventually went to University of South- ern California (USC) as a composition major.

JI: Who are some of your main influences and why?

BC: Six influences in chronological order: (1) Herbie Hancock - (age 13) Mwandishi/The Prison- er (first music that “spoke” to me); (2) Laura Nyro - (age 13) first four albums (use of piano with harp, dramatic and theatrical music - a world unto Laura Nyro); (3) Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - (age 14) first four albums (catalyst that got me into piano playing, classical with rock and jazz, first concept of composition); (4) D. Paul Hindemith - (age 17) Mathis Der Maler (intro to classical music, quartal harmony, counterpoint, formal structure); (5) Chick Corea - (age 18) The Leprechaun (first idea of a concept album, unique instrumentation, i.e. drums with string quartet and synthesizers and vocals, balance of virtuosic composition and soloing); (6) Pat Metheny/Lyle Mays - (age 32) The First Cir- cle, Wiltern Concert (innovative structure of com- position - one long crescendo, solo sections func- tioning as part of composition, solidified concept of jazz as chamber music)

JI: What kinds of activities are you doing, or plan- ning to do to expand your talents, abilities and perspectives as an artist?

BC: Work out - generally take better care of my health. I think that the more physically in-shape you are, the more clarity of mind you have. I try to from your observations on or off the stage? our stress-filled contemporary world? keep myself busy with interesting projects. Fortu- nately, I’ve been pretty lucky with that. I like read- BC: I’ve found that music can be a powerful influ- BC: Compose music

JI: If there is one for you, what is the connection “when the entire ensemble seems to be between music and spirituality?

of one mind, when the music makes you BC: The connection between music and spirituality for me is this: Music has provided me with the only tangible evidence of what I think of as “God”. experience an inexplicable state of con- When things hook up without having to think about them, when you can second-guess what everyone else in the group is doing and is going to do, when sciousness - that’s when music takes the entire ensemble seems to be of one mind, when the music makes you experience an inexplicable on a spiritual dimension.” state of consciousness - that’s when music takes on a spiritual dimension. ing. Lately, I’ve been into science-fiction and ence for good and that people have a real desire to graphic literature. connect with the music. Visit Billy on the internet at www.BillyChilds.com

JI: What have you discovered about human nature, JI: What do you do to recharge your batteries in   

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 27 up on Charlie Parker, I didn’t have time or money to buy singer’s records, although I did listen to Interview them on the radio. If I got any money together, it Interview would always be for Charlie Parker bebop record.

In what terms do you mean fitting in?

JI: You’re an NEA Jazz Master so it’s fair to Sheila Jordan place you high up on the list of jazz vocalists.

SJ: I don’t think of it. I just do what I do and I’m “The Cunning, Baffling, Powerful Jazz Child” just grateful that at this late age I can still do it. I never gave up because what was I gonna give up? Singing? No, I won’t give up singing. I know that I By Ken Weiss career, it was just a need to do music. It never en- can always find a place to sing and that’s what I tered my mind as a career, it was just an outlet for always tell young singers coming up when I do my Sheila Jordan (born November 18, 1928, Detroit, me. Music was an outlet to keep me alive spiritual- workshops and when I used to teach regularly. I’m Michigan) left behind her impoverished begin- ly as a little kid. I was very unhappy as a kid, I had not gonna give up something that I love so much, it nings, she was raised by her grandparents in the a very unhappy childhood, so I sang. I was con- would be like cutting off my arm. coal-mining area of Pennsylvania, to “chase” stantly singing because it made me feel better. The Charlie Parker to New York City, eventually form- only reason I started doing more music at the age JI: Your performance schedule is packed with ing a close relationship with him. A student of Len- of 58 was because I lost my job. The advertising European tours. Why travel and perform so much nie Tristano, Jordan was forced to maintain her agency that I was working for decided to merge at age 87? secretarial job throughout her early to mid-adult with another agency and I could have stayed on or life in order to raise her daughter as a single mom. taken a year’s severance pay and that little voice SJ: Because I love it, and it’s not because of the Her first major success came with her striking said, ‘Why don’t you go out and sing more? You’re money, because jazz musicians don’t get paid that version of “You Are My Sunshine” on the 1962 always complaining about it.’ So I went and sang. much. It’s what keeps me alive. I really do believe George Russell album The Outer View. Concen- Singing is part of me, it’s an extension of my body, that if it wasn’t for this music, if I couldn’t keep trating on performing during the second half of her my heart. The music is that close to me and my doing this music, I don’t think I would live very life, Jordan been able to reach listeners like few feeling. That’s what it’s all about to me, not a ca- long. other vocalists have ever done with her engaging reer. personality and expressive and emotional singing JI: What adjustments have you had to make to style. Jordan pioneered a bebop and scat singing JI: With all the major acclaim and love that’s been maintain your voice in your later years? form, started the first vocal workshop in 1978, and showered on you lately, has it become harder to initiated the vocalist-double bass duet. She was sing the blues? SJ: I haven’t done any, it’s what it is. [Laughs] I crowned a 2012 NEA Jazz Master and at age 87, don’t drink and I don’t smoke anymore. I knew that maintains a busy touring schedule. Jordan is ex- SJ: No, I always sing the blues, they don’t have to drinking and drugs and smoking were detrimental tremely down-to-earth and approachable. This be unhappy blues. My blues are not unhappy blues, to my music. It was hard because I was addicted. interview took place on June 7, 2016 at her New they weren’t written to be unhappy blues. It’s my You know, I’ve been in AA for over 30 years. Ad- York apartment in Chelsea, where she’s lived for way of letting people know where I come from and diction is a cunning, baffling, powerful disease. I over 50 years, how I grew up because that saves people from have it and most of my family had it. My mother asking me a lot of questions after the concert about died from the disease. I had a spiritual awakening onetime. I was coming out of a cocaine stupor and

a voice said, “I gave you a gift and if you don’t take care of it, I’m gonna take it away and give it to “The only reason I started doing more music at the somebody else.” And, whoosh! Talk about a spir- itual awakening, man, I jumped up and that was the age of 58 was because I lost my job. The advertis- last time I ever…I had been on a dry drunk for 8 years before I got into AA and NA. I haven’t had ing agency that I was working for decided to merge alcohol in my system for over 38 years but the cocaine is what threw me into the programs. I was- with another agency and I could have stayed on or n’t an everyday user of cocaine but that didn’t mean I didn’t have a habit. I was very fortunate, I taken a year’s severance pay and that little voice never took heroin, but a drug is a drug is a drug is a drug. They all mess you up, cunning, baffling, said, ‘Why don’t you go out and sing more? You’re powerful.

always complaining about it.’ So I went and sang.” JI: You have the rare ability to communicate in the moment with your audience but you have a relatively small voice. Would you talk about your where I come from and when did I start singing, voice and what, if any, approach you took to max- Jazz Inside Magazine: You’ve garnered many who influenced me, and so forth. I put it in my imize it? top awards and honors over the past 10 years, in- blues so that when the concert is over, I can hear cluding a 2012 NEA Jazz Master Award. That’s an about them instead of questions about me. SJ: No, I don’t think about it. My music comes astounding feat for someone who basically concen- from within, it’s beyond my voice. trated on their career at age 58. Putting your hum- JI: Where do you see yourself fitting into the pan- bleness aside, how do you explain your late career theon of jazz singers? JI: One of your extraordinary skills is in being success? able to improvise logical lyrics in the moment. Is SJ: I don’t think about it, I don’t know. I guess that something you actively developed or a natural Sheila Jordan: I never thought about it as starting because I never really tried to imitate any of the talent? my career at 58-years-old, my career started when I wonderful singers that were popular when I was was born, if you want to call it that. It wasn’t a growing up. I didn’t have the voice, I was so hung (Continued on page 30)

28 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 Sheila Jordan

Photo by Ken Weiss

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 29 voice in California. I was singing and I lost it, and JI: Your business cards include your name and instead of freaking out, I just started improvising underneath that it just says jazz, not vocalist. Sheila Jordan until it came back. I sang, ‘Oh, you went away? Did you have a good time? I’ve been waiting for SJ: I don’t know why I did that, I guess I just did- you.’ Something like that, within the chord chang- n’t want to be categorized in a sense. I just do jazz, (Continued from page 28) es, within the melody. I didn’t plan that, it just whether I sing it or talk it or teach it. I didn’t want SJ: It just came naturally. One thing is, I learn the happened. The audience was uptight when that to be categorized as just a vocalist. I don’t know. tune, exactly the way it’s written, note for note, happened. I could see they were uptight, they got Well, I guess that’s kind of unique, no? [Laughs] I then I listen for the chord changes, and then, I don’t scared for me, and when I did that, they laughed, guess I’m unique and I don’t know it. know, it just happens. It’s part of my improvisa- they were relieved. My voice came back and I told tion. I don’t think about it, I don’t plan it, it just it to give me a 24-hour warning, or something, if it JI: Hasn’t anyone else ever asked you about that happens. It’s born right in me as that old saying was going to do that again. before? goes. SJ: No, only you!

“I have the only score of George Russell’s. He JI: You talk of keeping “the message of bebop alive.” What is the message of bebop?

did not give out any of his scores. He did not SJ: Charlie Parker, Charlie Parker’s music. I don’t want jazz to die because I believe that jazz music is leave any of his scores to the New England the only true music that Americans can call their own. It started with the Afro American slaves in Conservatory. He does not want his arrangements the cotton fields. It started with the blues. I feel it’s never gotten a fair shake as being recognized for given out ... and the only person who got an the beautiful music it is with all the great, great musicians who have played it and died for it. They arrangement is me. His wife gave it to me were willing to struggle with it, not give up, and keep it alive, and that’s what I want to do. I just because she thought I should have it, after all, want to keep the music alive because I feel it’s a stepchild of American music. It’s never been total- it was about me.” ly accepted in this country. I’m often approached by people who say, “Well, I don’t really know jazz. You really have to be an intellect to be able to hear JI: Is that something you address with your stu- JI: You’re related to Queen Aliquippa, a leader of it.” I’m always really nice when I reply, ‘Do you dents? the Seneca Indian nation in the 1700’s. Would you know where jazz came from? It came from the talk about your Indian roots? blues so do you think those slaves, out there being SJ: No, I don’t tell them how to do anything. The beaten to death picking cotton for hours, with very only thing I tell them is not to try to copy other SJ: I have Native American on both sides. My little sleep and food, do you think they were edu- singers on records. They should listen to other father had Cherokee on his side but I didn’t really cated? They were singing this music. All I’m trying singers to be inspired but not to copy the tune. If know my father. On my mother’s side, our three to tell you is that it’s a feeling. Once you feel it, you’re gonna learn the tune, learn it from the origi- generation grandmother was queen of the Seneca you’ll know what it is and you won’t have to ask nal music because if you learn it the way another Nation. I would be royalty today if Columbus had- that question.’ I tell them that nicely and I leave it famous singer has recorded it, you’re only gonna n’t taken the nation away from the Native Ameri- at that. sing what they sang and you won’t ever sing it the cans. When I was a kid, I used to believe that if right way because, usually, if it’s a jazz singer, music hadn’t come into my life so early, I would JI: You’re able to sing songs from deep inside the that’s not the way the tune’s gonna go completely. have either wanted to be an astrologist or I would Great American Songbook. Would you venture a It’s changed and it’s their way, and why would you want to spend my life working for the Native guess on the number of songs you know? want to do their way when you should do your Americans. We don’t know that much about Queen way? Aliquippa except that she was so popular that they SJ: No, I wouldn’t know but I’ve been listening to named a town after her – Aliquippa, Pennsylvania. this music ever since I was a little kid. When I JI: We see you on stage as so relaxed and com- When I was a kid, as I said, we had a lot of alco- grew up, we had the Hit Parade, and if our bill was fortable. When was the last time you were really holism in my family and they used to call us half paid, and my grandfather didn’t use it for booze, nervous to perform? breeds, which was painful. I never went searching then we had a radio which somebody gave us. for my Native American past but I recently found Those were the songs of the day. The Cole Por- SJ: I can’t remember. I just love doing the music out about the royalty thing, it’s not even in my ter’s, Rodgers and Hart, those were the songs I so much, I just don’t think about it. We always book [Jazz Child: A Portrait of Sheila Jordan, heard. They used to sell songbooks with all the hope that it will be accepted, hope that you won’t 2014, Ellen Johnson]. Sometimes I think that’s current songs and their lyrics. lose your voice. I remember one time I lost my where I get the strength from. Did you know that Rodgers and Hart wrote a song in 1939 called JI: At this point, are you still uncovering gems out “Give it Back to the Indians?” of the Great American Songbook?

“...among human beings JI: At times you sing in Native American. Do you SJ: That’s why I have this book right here [a jealousy ranks distinctly as a speak and understand it? Rodgers and Hart compilation] because there’s weakness; a trademark of small minds; some tunes in there that I sorta know but I’m not a property of all small minds, yet a property SJ: That is an improv, it’s a feeling of emotion sure. I’m always looking for new tunes. which even the smallest is ashamed of; and pain that comes through me through my herit- and when accused of its possession will age. I just started doing it one night, just making up JI: What’s the most contemporary song you per- lyingly deny it and resent the lyrics, and boom, it was there. People like it and form or would perform? accusation as an insult.” ask me to do it so I do it now almost every concert. I improv on a Native American chant. It’s an offer- SJ: No, I don’t do that. When I hear a song, the ing of gratitude and thanks for giving me this gift first thing I listen for is the melody. If it’s a great -Mark Twain of music, to be able to sing it and hear it. melody, even if the lyrics are not so good, I’ll get

30 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 JI: You’ve noted in your biography that ladies’ mascara brings back harsh memories of coal min- Sheila Jordan ers black faces. Does that still effect you? “”When a person cannot SJ: Yeah, mascara, and women used to wear a (Continued from page 30) deceive himself the chances black liner underneath their eyes. I remember my are against his being able to the tune because I can always change the lyrics uncles, who were more like my brothers, worked in around. Whereas, if it’s a dull melody, and it goes the mines and that coal dust would be embedded in deceive other people.” nowhere, I don’t want to sing it. I don’t want to them. I mean you had to be out of the mines for

sing a song just because it’s popular and I’ll be years to get all that out of there. I wear mascara but - Mark Twain accepted more. I’m not out here for that, I’m just only when I’m working. out here to do what I do and keep the music alive. go but he wasn’t happy. I liked to go to the church JI: Growing up in the coal mines you had to eat because it was warm, so I’d go there and every- JI: Your start in life was harsh to say the least. whatever your grandfather caught including porcu- body thought I was so religious but in actuality, I Your mother was too young to raise you so you pine. Sorry to ask but what does porcupine taste was just trying to stay warm. I used to take the lived with your grandparents in the Pennsylvania like? priest’s mail to him and he’d sometimes give me coal mines with little to eat or wear and no heat in candy and little treats. There was a time when I the house. What effect does that experience still SJ: I don’t remember, they just used it for soup. It was a little kid that I thought I might want to be a have on you on a day-to-day basis? was squirrel, groundhog, or anything they could nun. Why? I don’t know, I feel a real contact. I catch. That was quite common back in the coalmin- believe in God. I guess I wanted something to be- SJ: No, the only thing I feel today is gratitude that ing area. Anything they could put in a big pot with lieve in and, of course, Charlie Parker or bebop I don’t have to live like that anymore. That, thanks water. We never had milk as kids, only evaporated music wasn’t around at that time. I think a lot of it to my higher power, I’m able to go on and live a milk from a can. I drank coffee at a very early age was wanting to have a place to call home that was pretty cool life. I don’t have chauffeurs or a man- because that’s what we got in the morning to put warm and had food and I got taken care of, and in sion but I own a little house upstate. It’s too far our dry bread in. return I could give my services. away to live there all year round, and in the winter time the roads get crazy because it’s almost on top JI: Many singers draw from their upbringing in JI: In 1952, at age 24, you moved to New York of a mountain, but I’m grateful. I feel like I was the black church but you had a very different expe- City to be closer to Charlie Parker but you had no taken care of, that somebody was really looking out rience. You came up through the Catholic Church interest in becoming a jazz vocalist even though for me, and I don’t want to go on carrying that at a time when only boys were allowed to sing in you had been singing in Detroit’s jazz clubs. Why burden of what it was like. The only time I talk the choir. Did the church have much of an influ- didn’t you set out to pursue singing? about what it used to be like is when I celebrate my ence on your singing? anniversary in my program. I’m sure whatever I SJ: I wasn’t singing in Detroit jazz clubs, I was lived in my past comes out in my music, it’s part of SJ: No, not at all. My grandfather was very anti- only sitting in. I wasn’t getting paid to sing. It was- it, but I don’t think about it. Oh, poor me! I’m not organized religion. My grandmother would make n’t that I didn’t have any interest in becoming a into that. us sneak out to go to church. And when we did our jazz singer, I didn’t have any interest in becoming a Confirmation and our First Communion, he let it (Continued on page 32)

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Eric Nemeyer Corporation P.O. Box 30284 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com Elkins Park, PA 19027 | 215-887-8880 31 tion, and you know what? I was very angry with JI: George Russell famously got you to sing an a him for doing that because I wasn’t ready. I was cappella version of “You Are My Sunshine” on his Sheila Jordan still involved in this sick relationship and he was so Outer View album. That song served as the unoffi- right. And one of the things that I wish is that he cial anthem of hope for the coal miners you grew were still alive so that I could go to him and tell up with and it was also the song you sang to your- (Continued from page 31) him, ‘You were absolutely right and I’m so sorry self to escape your childhood worries. How fitting famous jazz vocalist. Of course I had all the inter- that I didn’t listen to you when you told me that.’ It was it that it turned out to be the song that launched est in the world of being a jazz vocalist but I didn’t took a few years, even the birth of my daughter, your career? care if I became famous or not. Actually, I was and leaving us. He left us when Tracey was born, quite stunned when my first recording came out he didn’t even come to the hospital to see her. But SJ: I never thought about it that way. The thing and it got the reaction it got. I didn’t think it was so he was sick, I never condemn him. I know it had to that happened was, I was so used to singing unac- hot. I don’t even listen to myself, even to this day. do with his addiction, but he never did anything for companied that it was no big shock to me to sing it Sometimes I don’t even listen to the final product. her, not even a birthday card. like that. It was a song that the miners always sang I’ll listen to what I think is the best take. Singing so George originally wanted to call it “A Drinking was part of me and I would find a place to do it. I JI: As a single mom, you took a full-time job as a Song” and dedicate it to the out of work coalmin- loved to go to sessions, I loved to sit in. After my typist and legal secretary but still found time to ers. We had gone to visit my grandmother so he record came out, I got a few good gigs. I originally sing at the Page Three where your first accompa- could see where I came from and this whole idea of worked in a club in the Village called the Page nist was Herbie Nichols. What are your memories “Sunshine” came up. George called me and had me Three for two or three nights a week for many of him? come to his home on Jane Street at the time in years. I made four dollars a night and by time I 1961. He played this incredible piano thing and paid the babysitter three dollars and took a dollar to SJ: Very quiet, very laid back. I remember one then he stopped and said, “Sing.” I said, ‘Sing take a taxi home, there was nothing left, but I was- thing he said to me. He said, “You’ll never become what?’ He said, “Sing “You Are My Sunshine.”’ I n’t doing it to pay my rent or keep my daughter a star until you make a recording with said, ‘What? Why?’ He said, “Sing it. You used to alive, I was doing it to keep my soul alive because I me.” [Laughs] I’ll never forget that and I said, sing it alone when you were a kid.” I said, ‘Oh no, needed to sing. ‘Well, that’s the most sentences I’ve ever heard I can’t do that.’ And he said, “Just sing it.” That’s you say!’ He was fun. I communicated with how it started. It really raised eyebrows in the jazz JI: You dealt with a lot of racism in Detroit due to Herbie through music more than conversations community but good. They didn’t put it down, they interracial socializing and shortly after moving to because he wasn’t a big conversationalist, not with thought it was a pretty incredible recording. New York City, you married Duke Jordan [Charlie me anyway. I know that when we played music Parker’s pianist]. Did you underestimate the reper- together, there was a certain out of body experience JI: Your version of “You Are My Sunshine” is cussions of an interracial marriage in 1953 Ameri- I got singing with him that I’ve not experienced absolutely arresting. It’s whispery and wistful, yet ca? since. I have out of body experiences every once in very soulful. Was the recorded version similar to a while, not many, you’re not supposed to have too the way you sang it for George Russell that first SJ: I wasn’t thinking along those terms. When I many, but I remember the first one I ever had was time? walk down the street today and see all the interra- while singing with Herbie Nichols and I actually cial couples and biracial children, I say, ‘I knew left my body. I was floating over it. I remember SJ: Yes, that’s how I was singing it, it was painful. this was gonna happen.’ And I feel very, very singing with him, he would play something and I I was in pain as a kid, anything I sang was in pain. strong as one of the pioneers of it. I didn’t do it to would hear it and just take off, and I would be with I sang on the radio as a kid, they had these amateur be different. To be around the music and the need him. It was amazing. I don’t know if the audience hours. Actually, one time I did “I’ll Never Smile to have this music in my life outweighed the conse- knew what was going on [Laughs] or understood, it Again” [sings I’ll never smile again until I smile at quences of the hatred of racial prejudice. When I but it was fantastic and he knew it. That’s why he you] on a radio show amateur hour and this guy was growing up in Detroit, I was put down. I was said what he said to me. Unfortunately, we never sent a letter of proposal. He found out where I lived always taken to the police station for hanging out did record. I’m not one for recording. I don’t go and he sent it. Man, I was like 8-9-10-years-old, with, and I never use the n-word, but that’s what around and try to find recordings. I don’t like to and my grandmother wrote him back, “I don’t they’d say. “What are you doing hanging out with record. think so, she’s only 10!” Anyway, “Sunshine” is these … To the point that I said, ‘Can’t I be with very deep within me and that’s how it all started. my brothers?’ Referring to the two guys that I sang JI: Why don’t you like to record? And then George paid for a demo for me to do and with who were black. I used to pray that I would he took it around and the first two places he took it wake up brown just so I could get rid of this har- SJ: I don’t like being in a place and all closed in to, they accepted it. Quincy Jones was the A&R assment. and hearing every single breath you take. I think man at Mercury, he accepted it, but I’d already I’m better at live recordings. If I don’t know I’m signed with Blue Note but only for one recording. JI: How rare were interracial marriages at that being recorded, I’m okay. I keep putting it off, I Quincy said, “Well, maybe in the future.” I should time? It wasn’t until 1967 that the Supreme Court should make another record before I leave the plan- call him now. [Laughs] deemed all anti-miscegenation laws unconstitution- et. I’m working on songs, I mean I’m not working al. too hard on them, but I’m working on songs that I JI: How did other singers react to your rendition want to learn that I’d like to record but I don’t have of that song? Who reached out to you? SJ: I don’t know. A lot of couples lived together that [drive] to make a record that a lot of people as common-law marriages. Whether Chan and Bird have. I’ve never been into that. SJ: I don’t know how many singers heard it be- were legally married, I’m not sure. I can’t say if I cause you’d have to be in almost the avant-garde was one of the first because I’m not sure. I think it JI: What was it about Herbie Nichols that had [scene] to have heard it. I don’t know that many was easier in New York even though New York such a great effect on you? singers, even to this day, have heard it. They have had its own prejudice and hatred also. no clue that it even exists. I’d like to do it again SJ: I have no idea. If I knew that, I would know one day. I have the score. I have the only score of JI: Shortly after arriving in New York, you be- the answer to a lot of things. All I know is it was a George Russell’s. He did not give out any of his came one of the first singers to study under Lennie spiritual communication that I had with Herbie, scores. He did not leave any of his scores to the Tristano. There’s been a lot of speculation that the like I had with Bird. There was a spiritual commu- New England Conservatory. He does not want his reason you left Tristano was that he advised you to nication, it was almost like I had known him in arrangements given out. I don’t know why but that leave Duke Jordan because of his heroin addiction. another life. There was just something there. Like I was his decision, and the only person who got an Is that true? said, we never had long conversations, and I don’t arrangement is me. His wife gave it to me because even know if he knew that much about me. At that she thought I should have it, after all, it was about SJ: Yes, that is true. He didn’t advise me to leave time, I think I had already made my first recording me. him, he just said that I should think about my situa- with Blue Note. (Continued on page 33)

32 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 you had to sing the word “fuck” on Carla Bley’s always get me up to sing. Where ever he was play- SheilaJoseph JordanJarman epic opera – Escalator Over the Hill. Did you have ing, he’d usually have me come up and sing a tune. flashbacks to Lenny Bruce getting arrested? He believed in me. Bird, even though he wasn’t that much older than me, he was like the father I SJ: No, I didn’t because my music is always sepa- never had. I know he had the cunning, baffling, (Continued from page 32) rate. I was more into hearing the music and concen- powerful disease of heroin addiction, but he never JI: After you recorded with George Russell, Blue trating on the story of what the lyrics were about as encouraged me or anyone else to use dope, and Note soon released your first solo recording – Por- opposed to thinking of Lenny saying it. Actually, those who say he did are lying. My loft was like his trait of Sheila [1962] – which is widely considered until now that you brought it up, I guess I was the second home before he met the Baroness. Thank to be one of the most promising debut recordings first one that ever sang it on record. Yeah. [Laughs] God he didn’t die in my loft. I even had a little by a jazz singer yet you wouldn’t record under couch that I called “Bird’s Bed.” One time he came your own name again for 12 years. It’s understand- JI: You had a very close relationship with Charlie up to check on me and Duke was there, and Duke able that you had to raise your child by yourself but Parker. was nodding out. Bird looked at him and said, at the time you put out “Portrait” you had so much “Man, didn’t you learn anything from me?” Bird momentum going it seems odd that things had to SJ: He liked to talk about everything – life. He didn’t turn people on to heroin. He might have shot come to a stop. was incredible, he was brilliant, genius. Ugh, what up with them because they were giving him some

SJ: Nobody ever got in touch with me to record and unless they get in touch with me, I’m not a pusher. I don’t go out there and say, ‘Hey, are you “[Bird] always thought of me like a little gonna record me?’ I didn’t call Blue Note. That’s not my style, unless they get in touch with me, and sister. He told me I had ‘million dollar ears.’ even sometimes when they do that, I don’t do it. So they give up on me. [Laughs] I remember one time he came up to my loft JI: You need a manager. and played a sax solo for about an hour. He SJ: Yeah, I don’t have a manager. didn’t stop, it was amazing. Why didn’t I JI: Early in your career, you worked the same club with comedian Lenny Bruce in Long Island. have a tape recorder? Bird taught me so What can you say about him—what was your inter- action with him? much, he’s the reason I sing. He showed me SJ: I didn’t really talk to him very much. He was very, very funny. He used my name in his book as a way out of my pain and how to express Governor Faubus’ daughter getting married to Har- ry Belafonte. Lenny died a horrible death, from a myself through the music of bebop jazz.” heroin overdose, and was found on a bathroom floor with a needle in his arm. didn’t he talk about? He knew about everything free dope, but as far as telling people to try it? First JI: I believe you saw him get arrested for using and it wasn’t about showing off. You could ask of all, he wouldn’t give up his dope [Laughs], I’m the F word? Bird about anything and he would say, “Well, this sure. I just wish that I had known more about is how I feel about it” and he would go into a [drug] programs when Bird was alive. At my house SJ: Yes, can you imagine he was the first comedi- whole thing that would make total sense. He was upstate I have pictures all over of Bird because an that ever used that word in his act? Now they badly treated, even by the owners of Birdland. You Bird bought my house. I bought it through music, use it all the time, it’s like nothing. Yes, I saw it, know the story, I was with him when it happened. not my office job. I know that I wouldn’t be alive they came in and arrested him for indecent lan- Bird turned me onto Bela Bartok and Stravinsky. I today if it weren’t for Bird. guage. I was shocked. At that time I wasn’t a user was pregnant with my daughter and he was so kind of the word, and I didn’t like the word so much, but to me. She was born in ‘55 and Bird died March JI: Why did Parker crash at your loft? Didn’t he I knew that it was used widely among the jazz mu- 12, 1955. He always thought of me like a little have a place of his own? sicians so I didn’t know what the big deal was. sister. I just loved to be around him and it was nev- They were just after him because he was brilliant. er a romantic thing. He never came on to me. Dex- SJ: Yeah, but Chan would get upset with him and He was amazing, the greatest comedian I ever ever ter Gordon said, “That’s impossible, Bird came on throw him out or they would get in a fight. They heard, still to this day. Nobody can touch him. All to all the chicks.” Not me, never, because he met had their problems and I can understand where she of these comedians coming up took so much from me when I was a teenager in Detroit when me and was coming from, being there and having kids. I Lenny Bruce but not many of them mention his Skeeter and Mitch, the two guys I sang with, we remember he came by my house when Bree died, name. ran right up to him and started singing one of his his daughter. I put my arms around him. Yeah, he tunes. He told me I had “million dollar ears.” I was very special to me. He came by to check up on JI: It’s ironic that only a few years later, in 1968, remember one time he came up to my loft and me and he also knew he had a place with me if he played a sax solo for about an hour. He didn’t stop, needed one. That’s why he started going to the it was amazing. Why didn’t I have a tape recorder? Baroness’ later, I mean that was a fancy hotel. Bird taught me so much, he’s the reason I sing. He Come on, she was a millionaire, [Laughs] but he showed me a way out of my pain and how to ex- still came to see me. “”A man’s character may press myself through the music of bebop jazz. And be learned from the adjectives Lennie Tristano was the second one because he JI: What do you recall of the time Parker drank which he habitually uses encouraged me too. Bird used to do a lot of these rubbing alcohol at your loft? little gigs. These ladies would do these “cocktail in conversation.” sips,” as they called them. They’d get all dressed SJ: I called the ambulance and sent him to the up and hire a band so they could dance. Duke hospital. I said, ‘What are you doing? Because it (Continued on page 34) - Mark Twain would be on a lot of these gigs and Bird would

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 33 ing and was producing it, he had me speak with JI: Max Roach Sheila Jordan Bill when he sat down at our table. I said, “Bill, I hope this isn’t out of line, man, but I loved your SJ: The last time I saw Max was at Elvin Jones’ changes on “If You Could See Me Now.” Man, I funeral. He was in a wheelchair. I remember one would love to have those,’ so he got a paper napkin time, years ago in Detroit, he came through with (Continued from page 33) and wrote them out and I treasured that paper nap- Bird and one of the guys went up to Max and said, was a Sunday and you couldn’t get any alcohol kin. When my house burned down, that’s one of “Max, who’s the greatest drummer?” We were all yet?’ He wanted the alcohol content but I don’t the things that I lost that I felt the worst about. So standing around Max because we loved Max, and think it was that dangerous, but I was scared. I those are his very changes that Barry Galbraith you know what Max replied? “I am!” [Laughs] didn’t want Bird dying in my loft, I would never be plays on my Blue Note recording. I always wanted And we laughed. Actually, Max got me my job able to live that down. That he would die in my to sing with him but I never had the chance and I teaching at UMass at Jazz in July, which I still do place, on my floor? My idol, I killed with rubbing was too shy to ask, ‘Can I sing a tune with you?’ in the summer, because Max was teaching there. alcohol? No, but he was okay. I don’t remember it I’ve never been pushy like that. Max and Billy Taylor were the two but it was Max that well, I just remember having beautiful conver- who recommended me because he remembered me sations about what you believe in. He was very JI: How about a memory of Jeanne Lee? from teaching at City College, starting the program strong on me taking care of myself. “Don’t mess there through John Lewis. yourself up like me,” he’d say. He was like a little SJ: I loved Jeanne Lee. We worked together a few kid sometimes. He used to like to play those arcade times. We recorded with this Italian composer Mar- JI: Jackie McLean machines on Broadway. cello Melis and also with Jane Bunnett on The Water is Wide. Jeanne was beautiful, oh, my God, I SJ: Oh, there’s so many memories of Jackie JI: You’ve said that one of the highlights of your loved her. What a voice! Talk about being under- McLean, we were like family. Jackie was very life was singing at Monk’s memorial service in rated! I never feel unrated when I go back and funny. He would come to the loft all the time too 1982. Would you share a memory of Monk? think about Jeanne Lee because if anybody was and he always wanted to know when Bird was ever underrated, it was Jeanne Lee. Now that’s a coming by. My best friend from Detroit started SJ: He didn’t talk much. He was a very quiet man, singer that I really feel had everything going, man. going out with Jackie when we first moved to New he could say in three words what it takes somebody Great soul, great feeling, incredible voice, incredi- York from Detroit. We were going up to Harlem to a whole paragraph. He was very brilliant. The thing ble sound. Not forced, just a beautiful, natural see all the “cats” up there, and the sessions, and that I found out after he passed away was how sound. A very sweet person, a lovely lady. Minton’s after hours, and, oh, my God, it was in- many songs that he wrote were based on really credible. She went with Jackie until he met Dolly modern tunes like “Well, You Needn’t.” I was JI: Sonny Rollins and then she was history. I remember he said to teaching that song to my class at City College one me, “Are you going to be mad at me?” I said, ‘Why day and all of a sudden [it hit me that] he wrote that SJ: Aah, my buddy! I still see him. He calls me would I be mad at you? That has nothing to do with tune on the chord changes of “Temptation.” He did and sometimes says, “Miss Jordan, this is Mr. Rol- me, you’re my buddy.’ I loved him. He was so a lot of songs like that which means he listened to a lins calling.” [Laughs] Sonny and I go back to funny, always telling jokes, always being some lot of straight ahead pop tunes of the day like when I first came here up in Harlem. It was Jackie kind of a character. Toothpick Harry, he called “Temptation.” That was pretty wild. McLean, Sonny Rollins, Arthur Taylor, they were himself. Once in my loft he asked if I had any all hanging out together. Of course, we were all toothpicks. I said, ‘Yeah.’ He said, “Can I have JI: Nica [jazz baroness Pannonica de Koenigswa- Bud Powell freaks. Oh, it was great! I became clos- em?” I said, ‘How many do you want,’ and he said, ter] was inhabiting the same scene as you. Did you er with Sonny recently, especially since Lucille “As many as you can spare.’ So he sat on the couch have a relationship with her? died. I try to go see Sonny, he’s so sweet. I love and he started chewing them and throwing them on Sonny Rollins. Talk about being humble, oh my the floor and he said, “Do you know who I am?” I SJ: No, she wasn’t very open to other women. I God. He’s like family to me. said, ‘No, who are you,’ and he said, “Toothpick remember Duke did a concert at Town Hall and Harry.” I said, ‘What is that supposed to mean?’ after it was over, I went backstage to meet Duke JI: Ornette Coleman He said, “Whatever you want it to.” [Laughs] Cra- and she came up and said to Duke in front of me, zy man. “After you take your old lady home, why don’t you SJ: I loved Ornette. Ornette came by to visit me come by? I’m having a party.” After you take your one time and I wasn’t here and he left a Polaroid JI: Jazz education has played a strong role in your old lady home, that pissed me off. picture of himself in the door. I said, ‘Oh, I know life. You taught at City College from 1978 to 2005 who this was.’[Laughs] Ornette, George Russell, and introduced the first solo jazz vocal program in JI: You were a threat to her? and myself went to Max Roach and Abbey Lin- America. You took the job admittedly not knowing coln’s wedding in George’s little green how to teach. What were your thoughts at the start SJ: I don’t know. Why? She wanted to be queen Volkswagen. One year I made a huge Thanksgiv- of that role and how did your teaching expertise of the “cats” and she was queen of the “cats” be- ing dinner when Ornette still had his loft on Prince evolve? cause she had a lot of money. She was there at Street. I made two turkeys and I took everything Monk’s funeral when I sang. Barry Harris asked over to Ornette’s house for Thanksgiving. He loved SJ: It scared the hell out of me is what it did and I me to sing. I said, ‘Are you sure?’ He said, it. He came to the NEA event the year I got the said that to John Lewis when he asked me to teach “Absolutely.” award and of course, he had on this incredible suit. there. He said, “We need you here.” I had done a He always wore something incredible. little concert for them and when they asked me I JI: I’d like to ask you about a few of the musicians told them, ‘I don’t know how to teach.’ That’s you had relationships with. What about Bill Evans? JI: Elvin Jones when John told me something that stayed with me the rest of my life. John Lewis looked me in my SJ: I loved him. He was a quiet man. I met Bill SJ: He would always brag that he was my daugh- eyes and said, “Sheila, teach what you know. through George Russell because Bill was on his ter Tracey’s babysitter. He used to hold her and That’s it, nothing else.” So I carried that with me New York, N. Y. recording. After that album was he’s so big. When he first came to New York, he and that’s what I do. I only teach what I know. If a released, George Russell asked me one day if I wanted to see if he liked it, years ago, in the early student asks me a question that I don’t know I tell wanted to go hear Bill Evans play on Broadway. ‘50s, and he stayed at my loft. I said, ‘Yeah, you them I’m sorry and I refer them to someone else. I During intermission, Bill came over, and I was in can stay here but you have to take care of my learned to teach through teaching and every time I the middle of preparing to do “If You Could See daughter in the morning because I have to go to teach, I learn something new. I’m still learning. I Me Now,” [for Portrait of Sheila] and I had heard work for four hours.’ He said, “Yeah, I can do love teaching, I know that I’m getting across what Bill play it and I just loved his chord changes, so I that.” He was a sweet man, I loved Elvin. my message is to these young singers coming up told George, and since George got me the record- when I get the same feeling I get when I’m con-

34 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 our mouths. I don’t think anybody would really get said, ‘Now watch this,’ and I sang a ballad and they Sheila Jordan into this music, which started with the blues, if they split. You sing a ballad, they leave, you sing a be- didn’t feel they had something to say because it’s bop tune, they wag their tails. I used to walk a mile not gonna pay you anything. The only reward from down from my house and this guy had all these it is the feeling you get from doing it, which is an cows and I remember the first time I found out (Continued from page 34) incredible feeling when it’s happening. As far as about this. I was improvising on chord changes and necting with instrumentalists on a concert. There’s singing the blues, the blues can be in any form. all of a sudden these cows came stampeding up to a feeling that you get when you all become one What I do with my kids, my warmup is singing the the barbed wire fence. I said, ‘Oh, you guys like sound almost. When you’re connecting, you can blues, and don’t scat. I don’t want you scatting on bebop, you want to hear a ballad?’ And they left. become one sound when this music is really hap- the blues as an exercise, I want you singing about That picture in the book was actually taken in the pening on stage, and when I get that feeling when who you are, how you feel today, and why do you Azores because that’s a brown cow. I had a concert I’m teaching, I know that I’m doing okay. And I’ve want to sing jazz. That’s how I open up my work- there and stayed a couple extra days to see the had wonderful responses from my kids and a lot of shops – have them sing 12-bars straight ahead country and I found these cows and sang to them. them are doing so well. I’m very proud of them, they’re like my kids. “[jazz baroness Pannonica de Koenigswater]... JI: It’s very sweet that you list photos of your students on your website. wasn’t very open to other women. I remember

SJ: Yeah, it’s important. Duke [Jordan] did a concert at Town Hall and JI: In a 2011 Jazz Inside Magazine interview [by Nora McCarthy] you said, “One of the things I after it was over, I went backstage to meet found out very early is that you do not break peo- ple’s spirits.” That being the case, what do you do Duke and she came up and said to Duke in with the student who doesn’t really possess much talent? front of me, ‘After you take your old lady SJ: I try to seek out something in that person. There’s got to be something there, otherwise they home, why don’t you come by? I’m having wouldn’t sign up to take the course. They’re not gonna pay money to do something that they don’t a party.’ ‘After you take your old lady home,’ think they can do, so there’s got to be something there. What it is? I don’t know, but that’s what I’m there for. It’s for me to find out what is it? What’s that pissed me off.” within this person that gives them the desire to want to do this music, and I usually find it. Some- blues. If they want to take the time and energy to This cow was the only one that stayed after I sang. times the reason that they’re not, or we think learn and feel this music, then they can sing the She laid down and I said, ‘Oh, my God, I’m ex- they’re not as talented as they should be, is because blues, of course. hausted. I’m gonna lay down with her,’ and I be- they’re scared or they don’t know. So what do you lieve that’s when that picture was taken. do in a case like that? Listen to the music. I want JI: What is Sheila Jordan like off stage? you to learn this bebop head of Charlie Parker’s, I JI: What are you memories of living through want you to learn all of these bebop heads by Bird, SJ: The same as I am on stage, [Laughs] there’s 9/11? Diz, and Miles. I want you to try to sing the solos. no difference. My guilty pleasures? Chocolate, It’s gonna be hard but learn the line first. That gets milk chocolate, but I’ll take dark if milk isn’t avail- SJ: I saw it. I saw Sonny on TV leaving his resi- them into the phrasing, that’s how I learned. I teach able. The things I like on TV are the CSI’s and 48 dence there. I was at my daughter’s because she them how I learned it. I’m not gonna tell someone, Hours, and I like all the mysteries. I think some- had been ill and I went down to take care of her the ‘Hey, you can’t sing, don’t waste my time.’ I where in another life I was a detective because I night before. When I would stay there, I’d stay near would never do that because obviously they have a usually know who did it. [Laughs] As far as listen- the window and you could see the World Trade desire within them that wants them to at least try. ing to music, every time someone sends me their Center and I used to say, ‘Good morning twins,’ as The point is, most of them do try and then find that recording, I always listen to it, all the way through, I called them. I went down to get some food that they want to do something else, but you know and then I send them a little thank you, a little en- morning and this woman came in screaming, what? I always get thank you letters from them. couragement. All these young people are sending “Hurry up, hurry up, buy all the food you can! The only thing I have a hard time with, and I say me their CDs and I don’t want to not listen to them They’re bombing the World Trade Center, they’re this in all my classes, is that there’s three ingredi- and just say I did because that would be lying. And bombing the city!” And I thought, ‘Oh, some nut.’ ents for this music – it’s what’s attached to your I love classical music, especially if I’m up on a Just as I got upstairs, the second tower went down. head, your ears, listening; what beats in your chest, mountain. Sonny and I talk a lot about not listening I pinched myself, I thought I was dreaming. I could your heart, emotion; what happens with your foot, to our own music. I don’t listen back either. I don’t not believe it. I saw the second one go down. I saw timing, rhythm. You got bad time? That’s the worst necessarily want to hear it because I’ll be too criti- low flying planes which were the Airforce planes. thing that can happen, then you better go and take cal. It was awful, and that smoke? I had two friends some lessons with a good drummer. Timing will who lived there that stayed with me here for a few bug me more than singing out of tune. JI: There’s a photo from the ‘80s in your biog- months afterwards. They couldn’t go back there, all raphy Jazz Child of you sleeping under a barbed that dust was coming in their windows. I’ll never JI: You were born into hardship and when you wire fence with your head on one of your cows at forget that, to see a building actually crumble, dis- sing, it’s all real. Do you feel anyone can be trained your home in Middleburgh, New York. Do those appear like that, and all the smoke. There was to sing the blues? sort of things go on a lot up there? smoke in the area for days and you also had to prove that you lived beyond 14th Street or they SJ: In everybody’s life they’ve had times were SJ: The bebop cows I call them and they’re all would not let you down. The two things I’ll never things haven’t been wonderful. We’re only human over the world I find. I was in Brazil and found forget is that and when Kennedy was assassinated. so we’re all gonna have to suffer at some point. I some cows and I had them stop the car. I started What is wrong with this world I kept thinking? don’t believe that we’re born with a silver spoon in singing a bebop line and they came running. Then I (Continued on page 36)

To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com 35 that Swallow would have to play for. This one used [Laughs] just so I could say no! People might ask Sheila Jordan to be a stripper and she’d take all her clothes off. me what I was doing after the gig and if I wanted to She looked like a young boy, and by the time she hang and I’d say, ‘Thank you, but no.’ stripped down, it turned out she was a woman. Swallow would get hysterical. [Laughs] We had a Cameron Brown (bass) asked – “What attracted (Continued from page 35) lot of good times there. That was my introduction you to the bass and describe what is so unique to working on bass and voice. about the bass and voice experience? You’ve spo- JI: The final questions have been given to me to ken eloquently about that in the past and the bass ask you from other musicians: JI: I asked earlier about Herbie Nichols at Page and voice has been your own very special contribu- Three but you also played with a young Cecil Tay- tion to jazz!” Bob Dorough (vocals, piano) asked – “I heard lor as an accompanist there. What was it like to Duke Jordan play with Bird a time or two. As he accompany a young Cecil Taylor? SJ: I love the bass and voice because I love the was a real bebopper and instrumentalist, what was freedom that it gives me and I love the space. I love Duke’s attitude to your desire to sing?” SJ: Oh, brother. I was the only one that could sing the sound of the bass and I always felt somewhere with him, okay? He was sent in as a substitute by in a previous life that I must have been a frustrated SJ: He wasn’t pro or con but if I wanted to sing Dave Frishberg. I don’t know why Frishberg did bass player because I have always been attracted to something, he played for me. He never put me that, I think he had to be kidding. He knew that the looks and sound of the bass. I love the sound of down. He thought I could sing but he didn’t en- Cecil was ‘out,’ which was great, I’m not putting voice and stringed instrument ever since I did it courage me to the point, like Bird. Bird encour- Cecil down, but the point is, we’re talking about with Mingus in a club in Toledo. I was in town and aged me – “Come on up here and sing.” Duke was- strippers and joke tellers and a guy who had his I found out he was playing there. I knew him from n’t like that but I knew when I sang with Bird, I’d face all made up with huge makeup and singing Lennie’s and he invited me up to duet with him. I always have the right key because Duke would be Broadway. Cecil was only there one time, I think. I told him no because there was no guitar or piano to playing, so he’d know what key to transpose in. I enjoyed it but, boy, the other people, they were play with but he said, “Why, that doesn’t bother think that in the end, he was very proud of the fact freakin’ out! “Who the fuck is this guy?” I always you when you’re at Lennie’s. I want you to come that I became as popular in jazz as I did. I think he stuck up for people like that. I told the people com- up and sing.” And that was the first time I ever was surprised that I kept the Jordan name alive. plaining that he was expressing himself and that performed just with bass and that to me was thrill- they didn’t understand the music. When they said it ing. I had an out of body experience with Harvey Steve Swallow (bass) asked – “Sheila, you were so sounded like ‘static,’ I said, ‘It just depends on years ago, and I think I had one not too long ago very kind to me when I was a rookie and new to the what kind of static you like.’ with Cameron. My out of body experiences, the big, bad city. Would you talk about your experi- few that I’ve had, usually have been with bass and ence at the old Page Three?” Harvie S (bass) would like to share a memory in voice. There’s just something about the space, and place of a question – “We were in San Francisco on I love the sound of the instrument. It’s so much SJ: That’s where I met Steve Swallow, he was the a tour and this young girl came up to us and con- easier to work out ideas. bass player on Monday night, which was jam ses- gratulated us. We looked at her and said, ‘Thank sion night. They had three or four singers nightly you so much.’ Then we went a step further and Annie Ross (vocalist) asked – “I’ve heard rave and every other set you would sing, so everybody asked what she was congratulating us for. She said, reviews of your turkey. How do you do it?” got to sing two sets. Monday nights were my nights “I heard you two are getting married.” Sheila an- to take off, man, I didn’t care. They used to call me swered in an unexpected way. I of course expected SJ: She heard about that from Mark Murphy. “a new note in jazz,” that’s how they announced her to explain that we were not romantically in- Mark would come to my house every Thanksgiving me. Swallow was playing acoustic bass and the volved but we were just musically a team and good because he thought I made the greatest turkeys in piano player was John Knapp who used to get a friends. Instead she turned, pointed to me and said the world. I was very close with Mark, he was like little upset because I’d say, ‘Can I try to do this in a question like manner, “To him?” I looked over my younger brother and we spent a lot of time tune with just the bass?’ I had tried bass and voice and said jokingly, ‘Am I really that bad?’ She said together because we did a couple of jazz operas for at Lennie’s [Tristano] with Peter Ind, I’ve wanted to the girl, “He’s young enough to be my son!” George Gruntz. We had so much fun together. I’ve to do that for some time. I was the originator of the Then we all started laughing. You can’t be a musi- known him since he first came into the Page Three bass and voice, I don’t know if you know that. I’m cian and not have a sense of humor!” and sang “Willow Weep for Me.” I said, ‘Who is not bragging, I had enough belief in that and it’s this handsome guy?’ He was so good-looking and, wonderful that there are other singers that are start- SJ: Yeah, that’s a true story. man, could he sing. It always surprised me that he ing to do it today. But Swallow was the first bass didn’t get the NEA Jazz Masters award but Tony player. Actually, I wanted to record just me and Steve Kuhn (piano) also wanted to share an anec- Bennett would. But then I was surprised that I got Swallow on Blue Note when George got me the dote rather than a question – “I really admire her, it, so who knows? Any young male singer out there date but Al Lion said, “I don’t think we’re ready she’s the last of the pure jazz singers. She’s like my should always be inspired by the late, great Mark for that.” [Laughs] But Swallow was very receptive big sister. Back in the ‘70s, when I had the quartet Murphy. He was wonderful and so funny. One time and we had a hell of a good time. There were such that she was in, along with Harvie S and Bob Mo- I sent him on a gig that I couldn’t do, a teaching characters hanging out at the Page Three, singers ses, we’d been working a fair amount. We were in gig in Greece. He went a week early and wore Washington, DC and after the gig, we both stayed bedroom slippers and he was walking around, did- at my cousin’s townhouse there. It was separate n’t know where to go because he was a week too rooms but on this particular night I hit on her. early! There he was, walking around Greece in [Laughs] Just like that, and her reply was, which bedroom slippers! He was ‘out’ but in a funny way.

we joke about now, but she said, “Kuhn, I love you I went to visit him often when he got sick and I saw “Never be in a hurry. but you’re just not my type.” And that was as far as him right before he passed. He couldn’t move at all Do everything quietly and that part of our relationship ever got.” and usually had on a hospital gown, but on this day, he was all dressed up with a hat. I said, ‘What in a calm spirit. Do not lose SJ: That’s right, [Laughs] I remember that. are you doing up?’ I should have known. He was your inner peace for anything getting ready to leave but it didn’t hit me until I whatsoever, even if your whole JI: Being a female in jazz, a vastly male dominat- was in Europe and I heard he had passed. ed field, how often have you had to confront sexual world seems upset.” advances from other musicians?    SJ: Not that often. When I was younger, more so. - Saint Francis de Sales Today, nobody would hit on me. I wish they would

36 March-April 2017  Jazz Inside Magazine  www.JazzInsideMagazine.com To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 Contact Steve: 630-865-6849 | email: [email protected]

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