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Report of Proceedings of Tynwald Court (Debates Published by the Office of the Clerk of Tynwald, Legislative Buildings, Bucks Road, Douglas, Isle of Man. Printed by The Copy Shop Ltd., 48 Bucks Road, Douglas, Isle of Man. REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF TYNWALD COURT (DEBATES AND OTHER MATTERS) __________________ Douglas, Wednesday, 22nd January 2003 at 10.30 a.m. __________________ Present: The President of Tynwald (the Hon. N Q Cringle). In the Council: The Lord Bishop (the Rt Revd Noël Debroy Jones), the Attorney-General (Mr W J H Corlett QC), Hon. C M Christian, Mr D F K Delaney, Mr D J Gelling CBE, Mr J R Kniveton, Mr E G Lowey, Dr E J Mann and Mr G H Waft, with Mrs M Cullen, Clerk of the Council. In the Keys: The Speaker (the Hon. J A Brown) (Castletown); Mr D M Anderson (Glenfaba); Hon. A R Bell and Mr L I Singer (Ramsey); Mr R E Quine OBE (Ayre); Mr J D Q Cannan (Michael); Mrs H Hannan (Peel); Hon. S C Rodan (Garff); Mr P Karran, Hon. R K Corkill and Mr A J Earnshaw (Onchan); Mr G M Quayle (Middle); Mr J R Houghton and Mr R W Henderson (Douglas North); Hon. D C Cretney and Mr A C Duggan (Douglas South); Hon. R P Braidwood and Mrs B J Cannell (Douglas East); Hon. A F Downie and Hon. J P Shimmin (Douglas West); Capt. A C Douglas (Malew and Santon); Hon. J Rimington, Mr Q B Gill and Hon. P M Crowe (Rushen); with Mr M Cornwell-Kelly, Clerk of Tynwald. __________________ The Lord Bishop took the prayers. __________________ Items Considered Commission of Inquiry into Mount Murray – Further Expenditure Approved T570 Commission of Inquiry into Mount Murray – Further Expenditure Approved T574 Westmoreland Road, Douglas – Demolition Costs – Pre-Contract Development Costs – Expenditure T577 Approved Emergency Services – Digital Radio System – Standing Orders Suspended – Expenditure Approved T586 European Communities (Burma/Myanmar Sanctions) (Application) (Amendment) Order 2002 – T590 Approved Secure Accommodation Regulations 2002 – Debate Commenced T591 Secure Accommodation Regulations 2002 – Debate Concluded – Motion Carried T594 Children’s Home Regulations 2002 – Approved T596 Placement of Children with Parents Etc. Regulations 2002 – Approved T597 Placement of Children (General) Regulations 2002 – Approved T597 Private Fostering (Notification) Regulations 2002 – Approved T597 Disqualification for Caring for Children Regulations 2002 – Approved T598 Remands to Accommodation Provided by the Department Regulations 2002 – Approved T598 Social Security Act 1998 (Application) (Amendment) Order 2002 – Approved T598 Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 (Application) (Amendment) (No. 3) Order 2002 – T599 Approved Social Security Administration Act 1992 (Application) (Amendment) (No. 3) Order 2002 – Approved T599 Pension Schemes Act 1993 (Application) (Amendment) Order 2002 – Approved T599 TYNWALD COURT, WEDNESDAY, 22ND JANUARY 2003 Social Security Legislation (Application) (No. 16) Order 2002 – Approved T600 Income Support (General) (Isle of Man) (Amendment) (No. 6) Regulations 2002 – Approved T601 Merchant Shipping (Safety Provisions) Application Order 2002 – Approved T601 Criminal Legal Aid Order 2002 – Approved T602 Secure Care Home Custody Rules 2002 – Approved T602 Notaries (Amendment) Regulations 2002 – Approved T603 Tynwald Court – Better Management of Business – Referral to Standing Orders Committee – Motion T603 Approved Petitions for Redress of Grievance – Taking of Evidence in Public – Official Report – Amended Motion T613 Carried National Anthems – Amended Motion Carried T616 European Union – Exchange of Information for Tax Purposes – Statement by the Minister for the T629 Treasury __________________ Commission of Inquiry into accommodation, expenses and the hiring of offices et Mount Murray – cetera. It is very much hoped that this additional funding will be sufficient to enable the commission to Further Expenditure Approved conclude its work and that it does so within the timescale indicated within the chairman’s statement. Item 3. The Chief Minister to move: Finally I would like to reiterate my comments made in December that I act in this matter purely as a That Tynwald – conduit from the commission to Tynwald through His Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor; this is not a (a) approves the expenditure of a further sum governmental motion. However, it is important that the not exceeding £200,000 in addition to the commission is provided with sufficient funding to £500,000 previously voted, to meet the enable it to complete its work, and let us hope that this continuing costs of the Commission of will see us presented with a report in July of this year. Inquiry into Mount Murray; and Mr President, I beg to move. (b) approves the expenditure of a total sum The President: Hon. member for Onchan, not exceeding £200,000 from General Mr Karran. Revenue for the year ending 31st March 2003. Mr Karran: I beg to second and reserve my remarks. The President: I call on the Chief Minister to move. The President: Hon. member Mr Henderson. Mr Corkill: Mr President, hon. members, today Mr Henderson: Thank you, Mr President. As I we have laid before us a statement of progress from the have said all along, as far as I am concerned this carry- chairman of the Commission of Inquiry into Mount on is a sham and a travesty, a waste of taxpayers’ Murray which was requested at the December sitting money and is completely unfair, and I do not see why of this hon. Court. In the statement it is indicated that we are here today with the begging bowl out again. I should the Privy Council find in the commission’s think it is time to close the door on this sad, sorry favour in respect of the outstanding litigation, the episode and let us move on to something different. commission is aiming to present its report to His I have said all along that, whatever the Excellency the Lieutenant-Governor during July 2003. commission finds at the end of the day, we cannot It is on the basis of this indicative timescale that I am prevent the fact that there are well over 100 homes for now, on behalf of the Lieutenant-Governor, seeking young Manx families now in place at Mount Murray Tynwald approval for an additional £200,000 to fund and there is not a lot we can do about it. Going back the commission’s work over and above the £500,000 over 10 years is just going to rake up bits and pieces of previously voted. old scraps and, if there is anyone at fault, we are As at 31st December 2002, £326,000 has been looking at a long, long time ago, and the fact of the spent by the commission. Taking account of matter is that what has happened cannot be changed outstanding invoices for goods and services and for now. We have to learn from what has gone on, move additional costs committed between now and on, and if there are any lessons to be learnt it should be July 2003 it is presently envisaged that the overall put into the new planning regulations in anything else costs of the commission of inquiry will total £700,000. that may be appropriate. The expenditure of public Of this figure it is estimated that approximately funds on this misguided tour of whatever you like to £550,000 will relate to fees and salaries, the balance call it, I think, is absolutely atrocious and the amount covering non-staff costs such as travel, T570 TYNWALD COURT, WEDNESDAY, 22ND JANUARY 2003 of houses that we could have built for this money what has gone on there and what has gone wrong with leaves a lot to be desired; it has turned into a shameful this particular site. sideshow as far as I am concerned, Mr President. (Mr Karran interjecting) Mrs Crowe: At what cost? Now, also I would like again to remind hon. members that what is actually happening here is a very Mrs Hannan: So I support this further clever manipulation of a situation, with the briefing expenditure. I welcome the report that we asked for notes supplied by the hon. member from Onchan and from the inquiry and I would hope that we can get to the hon. members are allowing themselves to be the bottom of what happened there. If anything did go painted into a corner. That is the real fact of the matter. wrong, we do know what the Crow report said: that things did not happen in the way that they should have Mr Karran: Point of order, Mr President. done; that there were things within the documentation that were not brought up to the Planning Committee by The President: Hon. member, Mr – the officers. Now, if that is not something that is wrong . and the chair of the Planning Committee is saying Mr Karran: I have not brought any notes to this that it should not be investigated. Does he know that hon. Court and I think I am tired of people distorting everything is presented to him now? These are things the truth. (Interjections) What briefing notes have I that I think we should know in this hon. Court and we brought? Please explain. should be held to account for what we do. The President: Mr Henderson. The President: Now, hon. members, both sides of the coin, I think, have been fairly put (Mr Houghton: Mr Henderson: Thank you, Mr President. As far Hear, hear.) and I would remind members that in fact as I am concerned, as I say, hon. members are allowing what we are looking at is approving the expenditure, themselves to be painted into a corner. They are not debating what is or what is not in the report. Hon. allowing themselves to be bullied in this matter and if member of Council, Mr Kniveton.
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