Second Session, 39th Parliament

official report of Debates of the Legislative Assembly

(hansard)

Monday, April 12, 2010 Morning Sitting Volume 13, Number 6

the honourable , speaker

ISSN 0709-1281 PROVINCE OF (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871)

LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR His Honour the Honourable Steven L. Point, OBC

Second Session, 39th Parliament

SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff

EXECUTIVE COUNCIL

Premier and President of the Executive Council...... Hon. Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations...... Hon. Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance...... Hon. Minister of State for the Olympics and ActNow B.C...... Hon. Mary McNeil Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation...... Hon. George Abbott Minister of Advanced Education and Labour Market Development...... Hon. Minister of Agriculture and Lands...... Hon. Steve Thomson Attorney General and Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Minister of Children and Family Development and Minister Responsible for Child Care...... Hon. Minister of Citizens' Services and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism and the Public Affairs Bureau...... Hon. Minister of Community and Rural Development...... Hon. Bill Bennett Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...... Hon. Margaret MacDiarmid Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources...... Hon. Blair Lekstrom Minister of State for Mining ...... Hon. Minister of Environment...... Hon. Minister of State for Climate Action...... Hon. Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for the Integrated Land Management Bureau...... Hon. Minister of Health Services...... Hon. Minister of Healthy Living and Sport...... Hon. Minister of Housing and Social Development...... Hon. Minister of Labour...... Hon. Minister of Small Business, Technology and Economic Development...... Hon. Minister of Tourism, Culture and the Arts...... Hon. Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure...... Hon.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

Leader of the Official Opposition...... Carole James Deputy Speaker...... Assistant Deputy Speaker...... Claire Trevena Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole...... Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...... E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant...... Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk...... Ian D. Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees...... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk...... Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms...... Gary Lenz Director, Hansard Services...... Jo-Anne Kern Acting Legislative Librarian...... Peter Gourlay Legislative Comptroller...... Dan Arbic ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING

Abbott, Hon. George (L)...... Shuswap Abbotsford-Mission...... Hon. Randy Hawes Austin, Robin (NDP)...... Skeena Abbotsford South...... Bains, Harry (NDP)...... Surrey-Newton Abbotsford West...... Hon. Michael de Jong, QC Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)...... Penticton Alberni–Pacific Rim...... Scott Fraser Barnett, Donna (L)...... Cariboo-Chilcotin Boundary-Similkameen...... John Slater Bell, Hon. Pat (L)...... Prince George–Mackenzie Burnaby–Deer Lake...... Kathy Corrigan Bennett, Hon. Bill (L)...... Kootenay East Burnaby-Edmonds...... Raj Chouhan Black, Dawn (NDP)...... New Westminster Burnaby-Lougheed...... Harry Bloy Black, Hon. Iain (L)...... Port Moody–Coquitlam Burnaby North...... Richard T. Lee Bloy, Harry (L)...... Burnaby-Lougheed Cariboo-Chilcotin...... Bond, Hon. Shirley (L)...... Prince George–Valemount Cariboo North...... Bob Simpson Brar, Jagrup (NDP)...... Surrey-Fleetwood Chilliwack...... Cadieux, Stephanie (L)...... Surrey-Panorama Chilliwack-Hope...... Hon. Barry Penner Campbell, Hon. Gordon (L)...... Vancouver–Point Grey Columbia River–Revelstoke...... Norm Macdonald Cantelon, Ron (L)...... Parksville-Qualicum Comox Valley...... Don McRae Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP)...... Vancouver–West End Coquitlam–Burke Mountain...... Douglas Horne Chong, Hon. Ida (L)...... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Coquitlam-Maillardville...... Diane Thorne Chouhan, Raj (NDP)...... Burnaby-Edmonds Cowichan Valley...... Bill Routley Coell, Hon. Murray (L)...... Saanich North and the Islands Delta North...... Guy Gentner Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...... Fort Langley–Aldergrove Delta South...... Vicki Huntington Conroy, Katrine (NDP)...... Kootenay West Esquimalt–Royal Roads...... Maurine Karagianis Coons, Gary (NDP)...... North Coast Fort Langley–Aldergrove...... Hon. Rich Coleman Corrigan, Kathy (NDP)...... Burnaby–Deer Lake Fraser-Nicola...... Harry Lali Dalton, Marc (L)...... Maple Ridge–Mission Juan de Fuca...... de Jong, Hon. Michael, QC (L)...... Abbotsford West Kamloops–North Thompson...... Dix, Adrian (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kingsway Kamloops–South Thompson...... Hon. Kevin Krueger Donaldson, Doug (NDP)...... Stikine Kelowna–Lake Country...... Elmore, Mable (NDP)...... Vancouver-Kensington Kelowna-Mission...... Hon. Steve Thomson Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L)...... Surrey-Cloverdale Kootenay East...... Hon. Bill Bennett Farnworth, Mike (NDP)...... Port Coquitlam Kootenay West...... Katrine Conroy Fleming, Rob (NDP)...... Victoria–Swan Lake Langley...... Hon. Mary Polak Foster, Eric (L)...... Vernon-Monashee Maple Ridge–Mission...... Marc Dalton Fraser, Scott (NDP)...... Alberni–Pacific Rim Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows...... Michael Sather Gentner, Guy (NDP)...... Delta North Nanaimo...... Leonard Krog Hammell, Sue (NDP)...... Surrey–Green Timbers Nanaimo–North Cowichan...... Doug Routley Hansen, Hon. Colin (L)...... Vancouver-Quilchena Nechako Lakes...... Hawes, Hon. Randy (L)...... Abbotsford-Mission Nelson-Creston...... Michelle Mungall Hayer, Dave S. (L)...... Surrey-Tynehead New Westminster...... Dawn Black Heed, Kash (L)...... Vancouver-Fraserview North Coast...... Gary Coons Hogg, Gordon (L)...... Surrey–White Rock North Island...... Claire Trevena Horgan, John (NDP)...... Juan de Fuca North Vancouver–Lonsdale...... Hon. Naomi Yamamoto Horne, Douglas (L)...... Coquitlam–Burke Mountain North Vancouver–Seymour...... Jane Thornthwaite Howard, Rob (L)...... Richmond Centre Oak Bay–Gordon Head...... Hon. Ida Chong Huntington, Vicki (Ind.)...... Delta South Parksville-Qualicum...... James, Carole (NDP)...... Victoria–Beacon Hill Peace River North...... Karagianis, Maurine (NDP)...... Esquimalt–Royal Roads ...... Hon. Blair Lekstrom Krog, Leonard (NDP)...... Nanaimo Penticton...... Hon. Bill Barisoff Krueger, Hon. Kevin (L)...... Kamloops–South Thompson Port Coquitlam...... Mike Farnworth Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)...... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Port Moody–Coquitlam...... Hon. Iain Black Lake, Terry (L)...... Kamloops–North Thompson Powell River–Sunshine Coast...... Nicholas Simons Lali, Harry (NDP)...... Fraser-Nicola Prince George–Mackenzie...... Hon. Pat Bell Lee, Richard T. (L)...... Burnaby North Prince George–Valemount...... Hon. Shirley Bond Lekstrom, Hon. Blair (L)...... Peace River South Richmond Centre...... Rob Howard Les, John (L)...... Chilliwack Richmond East...... Linda Reid Letnick, Norm (L)...... Kelowna–Lake Country Richmond-Steveston...... Hon. John Yap MacDiarmid, Hon. Margaret (L)...... Vancouver-Fairview Saanich North and the Islands...... Hon. Murray Coell Macdonald, Norm (NDP)...... Columbia River–Revelstoke Saanich South...... Lana Popham McIntyre, Joan (L)...... West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Shuswap...... Hon. George Abbott McNeil, Hon. Mary (L)...... Vancouver–False Creek Skeena...... Robin Austin McRae, Don (L)...... Comox Valley Stikine...... Doug Donaldson Mungall, Michelle (NDP)...... Nelson-Creston Surrey-Cloverdale...... Hon. Kevin Falcon Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...... Chilliwack-Hope Surrey-Fleetwood...... Jagrup Brar Pimm, Pat (L)...... Peace River North Surrey–Green Timbers...... Sue Hammell Polak, Hon. Mary (L)...... Langley Surrey-Newton...... Harry Bains Popham, Lana (NDP)...... Saanich South Surrey-Panorama...... Ralston, Bruce (NDP)...... Surrey-Whalley Surrey-Tynehead...... Dave S. Hayer Reid, Linda (L)...... Richmond East Surrey-Whalley...... Bruce Ralston Routley, Bill (NDP)...... Cowichan Valley Surrey–White Rock...... Gordon Hogg Routley, Doug (NDP)...... Nanaimo–North Cowichan Vancouver-Fairview...... Hon. Margaret MacDiarmid Rustad, John (L)...... Nechako Lakes Vancouver–False Creek...... Hon. Mary McNeil Sather, Michael (NDP)...... Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Vancouver-Fraserview...... Simons, Nicholas (NDP)...... Powell River–Sunshine Coast Vancouver-Hastings...... Shane Simpson Simpson, Bob (NDP)...... Cariboo North Vancouver-Kensington...... Mable Elmore Simpson, Shane (NDP)...... Vancouver-Hastings Vancouver-Kingsway...... Adrian Dix Slater, John (L)...... Boundary-Similkameen Vancouver-Langara...... Hon. Moira Stilwell Stewart, Hon. Ben (L)...... Westside-Kelowna Vancouver–Mount Pleasant...... Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Stilwell, Hon. Moira (L)...... Vancouver-Langara Vancouver–Point Grey...... Hon. Gordon Campbell Sultan, Ralph (L)...... West Vancouver–Capilano Vancouver-Quilchena...... Hon. Colin Hansen Thomson, Hon. Steve (L)...... Kelowna-Mission Vancouver–West End...... Spencer Chandra Herbert Thorne, Diane (NDP)...... Coquitlam-Maillardville Vernon-Monashee...... Eric Foster Thornthwaite, Jane (L)...... North Vancouver–Seymour Victoria–Beacon Hill...... Carole James Trevena, Claire (NDP)...... North Island Victoria–Swan Lake...... Rob Fleming van Dongen, John (L)...... Abbotsford South West Vancouver–Capilano...... Yamamoto, Hon. Naomi (L)...... North Vancouver–Lonsdale West Vancouver–Sea to Sky...... Joan McIntyre Yap, Hon. John (L)...... Richmond-Steveston Westside-Kelowna...... Hon. Ben Stewart

Party Standings: Liberal 49; New Democratic 35; Independent 1

CONTENTS

Monday, April 12, 2010 Morning Sitting

Page

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Statements...... 4085 Maintaining the essential resource of life: water J. Slater M. Sather Rural B.C. community economic development D. Donaldson J. Rustad Early learning J. Thornthwaite M. Karagianis The value of reconciliation B. Simpson R. Cantelon

Private Members' Motions...... 4094 Motion 4 — Trade partnership with Alberta and D. Horne B. Ralston J. Les D. Black D. Hayer J. Kwan J. McIntyre B. Simpson S. Cadieux G. Gentner P. Pimm

4085

MONDAY, APRIL 12, 2010 paper, our website and a blog that is collecting input into policy development, a first for B.C. The House met at 10:02 a.m. WAM is an opportunity to ensure the principles under- lying the Water Act respond to modern expectations as [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] well as promote stream health and our water security. We are more than halfway through the 12 workshops Prayers. being held around the province. As a champion of this process, I am hearing a desire from all the stakeholders Orders of the Day to work collaboratively and to move the Water Act into the 21st century to better serve our children and grand- Private Members' Statements children as well as nature. We have so much to gain from rethinking the way Maintaining the Essential we manage our water and so much to lose if we don't. Resource of Life: Water But what do we do if we don't have enough water to go around? Last summer — and looking at predic- J. Slater: B.C. is proud of our water resources. We rely tions, probably again this summer — there wasn't on them to be healthy and sustainable for us, for our enough water to go around to keep our streams healthy. economy and for our environment. British Columbia Below-normal snowpack conditions across much of the proudly showed the beauty and the greatness of our Interior indicate potential water supply challenges for streams, lakes and snowy mountains to the world dur- this summer. ing the Olympic Winter Games. Environment Canada's long-range forecast is for warmer-than-normal weather over the next three [C. Trevena in the chair.] months. We will once again see widespread water re- strictions, dropping well levels and drought conditions Our streams and lakes are part of our identity and creating stresses and causing economic losses. Being an internationally recognized drawing card for our prepared to respond to the droughts in these commun- visitors. We rely on water every time we turn on the ities, for chances of sustaining agriculture and other shower, wash our clothes, eat our lunch or flick a light economic activities during dry periods…. It assists with switch. protecting fish and aquatic ecosystems from the nega- But do you usually think about the water you use? Do tive impacts of low stream levels and warmer rivers. you think about keeping our water safe and sustainable? To reduce the impacts of drought, the British Columbia For almost two years now the B.C. government an- government, in partnership with key federal and prov- nounced the Living Water Smart plan, B.C.'s water plan incial agencies, is developing a drought response plan and vision to keep our water healthy and safe. to guide action before and after a drought. The drought Today I want to focus on some of the progress in pro- response plan will build on existing tools such as the tecting our water and planning for when we don't have Dealing with Drought handbook used by water provid- enough. I also want to demonstrate how a partnership ers to help them prepare drought management plans. approach is helping us to find solutions. In preparing the plans, advice from First Nations, local Let me begin with the new initiative to modernize the governments, water users and other stakeholders is be- B.C. Water Act. The Water Act is the heart of the water ing sought. governance framework. The act currently is 101 years Once again, workshops have been held with inter- old. It's also one of our oldest laws and doesn't always ested people and groups in various locations around the respond well to today's water challenges. province. These sessions have gathered input on provin- With our population increasing and hot, dry summers cial- and regional-specific actions that should be taken becoming more common, changes may be needed to be in times of low stream flows or drought. made to the way we allocate our water. Partnerships are The drought response plan is intended primarily to essential to share water stewardship roles more broadly guide provincial government actions during drought, and to encourage collaboration between other govern- but we are also capturing input and will reflect in the ments, users and our citizens. plan recommended actions for our partners such as fed- [1005] eral agencies, water licensees, local governments, First Right now all across the province British Columbians Nations communities and water users. are rising to the challenge, thinking about and sharing The efficient use of water is essential if we are to sustain their views and solutions for the modernization of our the environment and our economy, particularly in times Water Act. They're getting involved in the law review of drought. Did you know that British Columbia uses process through traditional and innovative engagement 65 percent more water than the average for a developed methods such as workshops, submissions, a discussion country? There are easy wins by making water conserva- 4086 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 12, 2010

tion part of our life and our health and lifestyle. Okanagan whereby there has been a movement to self-regula- water supply and demand project is an example. tion and -reporting — not only reporting but setting You can't manage what you can't measure. How much standards, if you will — by consultants hired by the water have we got, how much water are we using, and proponent. We don't want to go down that road again how much are we going to need in the future? In our with the Water Act. I'm certainly hoping that we driest basin and one which I am very intimate with, the won't. Okanagan, a groundbreaking study that is unique and The paper talks about either a devolving or a dele- powerful in many ways has been accomplished. The de- gation approach. Devolving would be sharing with mand project will be used as a model throughout other local government. I have some concerns around that, in areas in the province. their capacity to be able to do that, and I'm hoping the We are leading the rest of Canada by having a power- Ministry of Environment isn't abrogating their respon- ful water accounting model that will allow communities sibilities in that regard. Delegating would be around to understand the availability of water supplies and the establishing a watershed agency. demands that they place on that supply. Knowing that, This has, I think, some promise if the government communities can better adapt to climate change and goes that route, because I know that in my community population growth. there are certainly agencies and individuals that could provide very good information for that approach. M. Sather: It's my pleasure to respond to the mem- Finally, on the groundwater issue the problem that ber on the Water Act. He talked about the Water Act I'm seeing so far in the discussion paper is that it doesn't modernization that's underway, the process, and there's address the issues of development affecting groundwater a discussion paper that's out there. I got a copy of it, or, for example, forestry practices affecting groundwater. and thanks to the government for sending that to me, Those are issues that we've had in Maple Ridge in the whomever did that. However, I just got it on the 29th. It Blue Mountain and Thornhill areas. was sent out on the 29th of March. When they've gone at length to government, they've [1010] been told in the end that they can try to find out who's The member mentioned the discussion groups, the responsible. "Go to the Ministry of Health." In other workshops. Although there are 12 of these, nine of them words, if you get sick, that's your only recourse. So we are for First Nations only. There are only three others, have to do much, much better on that. in Nanaimo, Kelowna and Nelson. Nothing whatsoever The discussion paper talks about extraction and use, in the Lower Mainland. Two of them are already over, though we need more than that. We need more than March 5 and 12. regulations around that. We need protection from other We have very active and interested stewardship groups land uses, which can very negatively affect water. in Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows. They're very involved Water is going to be, as we know, a huge, huge issue in with an illegal water diversion by the Aquilini Group this century. I am pleased that the government has the from the North Alouette River, which the government is discussion paper. I'm looking forward to positive results intimately aware of, I'm sure, yet none of them will have from that. Their amendments to the WaterA ct that they a chance to participate in their communities. Nor were brought in this year did not help, in my regard. In fact, they sent a copy of the discussion paper. they extended the period by which an individual can ex- I've gone onto the website and tried to download the tract water without a licence. URL, but it comes up as not available. It doesn't seem I'm concerned, as I expressed to the minister around very accessible, so I'm hoping the government will pick that act, that there's a lack of capacity in the Ministry up on that. of Environment to actually enforce regulations or With regard, of course, to the illegal diversion in guidelines, albeit they're pretty hard to enforce. So it's Maple Ridge, we're still waiting. Community groups are important that the government not drop the ball by de- waiting for a report from Crown counsel as to what is volving responsibility to somebody else. It's important or is not going to happen. The Crown has the option to that the Water Act changes have teeth in them such that notify community groups who have an interest if they we can actually have some effect. feel it's in the public interest, and it certainly is, so we're hoping that that will happen. J. Slater: Just for clarification, the website that we're When we look at the modernization discussion paper, using is www.livingwatersmart.ca. The links are -cer a lot of it is about whether there are going to be guide- tainly working on that. lines or regulations. Of course, guidelines are not going [1015] to do it. We need to have more teeth in the new act, and My colleague just told me that everything's working I'm certainly hoping that there will be. fine on that, so I encourage everybody to have a look at I'm concerned about the precedent that the govern- that site and make sure that all the information that they ment has set with streamside protection regulations, need or require is on that site. Monday, April 12, 2010 British Columbia Debates 4087

Yes, we can't get around to the whole province. The points out: "Quebec has a national policy that Quebec 14 workshops are well attended. The workshops that wants strong rural areas, wants to ensure the survival of I've been at have had First Nations attendees as well rural areas and identity and to rethink ways of building as the three First Nations workshops throughout the on the extensive development potential of rural areas, province. all in a sustainable way. Those sentiments are backed up I encourage everybody to get on to the website if you with a signed, formal rural partnership agreement be- want some input, or mail it to us. We certainly do en- tween the province, municipal organizations and two courage everybody with all their concerns to make sure provincewide rural interest groups." that we are hearing what everybody has to say, because He goes on to point out that this agreement is based what government does is only part of the solution. on a seven-year program time frame, so if government Government cannot manage water alone. Through changes, there's still long-term continuity. Penfold Living Water Smart B.C. we challenge British Columbians writes: "That's quite different than the project-by-project — businesses, the farms, the communities — to protect fund chasing and trying to access federal and provincial and preserve and conserve our water. programs that seem to be in perpetual motion in terms of priorities, administrative structures and funding that rural b.c. COMMUNITY rural interest groups in B.C. have to deal with." economic development Secondly, we need to improve and sometimes create rural development organizations in rural B.C. Looking D. Donaldson: There's no doubt rural B.C. is the key at examples from other jurisdictions demonstrates how to economic recovery in this province. The natural re- successful these can be to economic revitalization. source wealth found in non-urban areas like Stikine is The Kentucky Highlands Investment Corp., for ex- what drives this province. Forestry, oil and gas, mining, ample, serves a region of about 500,000 that has become fishing and agriculture have created the wealth we enjoy one of the poorest in U.S. history. KHIC has become as a society in B.C. a recognized leader in community economic develop- Just a few years ago David Baxter from the Urban ment venture capital, providing direct equity investment Futures Institute released a report that 70 percent of all into business start-ups and expansions. That addresses the new revenue generated in the province comes from a major barrier in rural areas, that rural businesses are areas outside the urban centres. Even last year, when largely ignored by traditional venture capital firms. commodity prices weren't the best or export markets Over the past 20 years companies in which KHIC weren't the greatest, more than $3 billion came into the invested paid more than $1.9 billion in salaries and gen- provincial treasury through natural resource revenue. erated an estimated $300 million in tax revenues. So it's That is why we should all be concerned about the not just the natural resource extraction but the taxes sustained economic decline in rural areas. Most com- paid by the people who live in rural areas. munities have seen very slow rates of economic growth [1020] and diversification, and now we are witnessing dis- Another example is the Highlands and Islands turbing signs of depopulation. As was stated at the B.C. Enterprise that services northern Scotland. HIE is one Rural Summit in Port Hardy last month, we all know of the oldest regional development agencies in Europe, that short-term economic stimulus and simplistic solu- established in 1965. Its activities include debt and equity tions will not create the change necessary. finance investment as well as labour force development. The federal stimulus package was welcomed in many It serves a region with about the same population as the rural communities, although its rollout was unnecessar- Okanagan, but HIE has a staff of 350 compared to about ily delayed by this provincial government at the expense 80 working in economic development in the Okanagan of local employment, especially in northern areas where region. That demonstrates the degree of importance the construction season is short due to winter weather. Scotland places on its rural areas. The stimulus made a difference, yet we all know that this HIE also focuses on social enterprise, which I will dis- type of strategy is not sustainable in the long term. cuss a little bit later in this statement. Talk about simplistic solutions. Does anybody remem- Back in the U.S. there is Coastal Enterprises, Inc., ber the heartlands strategy? It's the seventh anniversary which is a community development corporation in the of that proclamation by this government, but like many state of Maine, consistently one of the poorest of the of the other government's priorities, it was a passing fad six New England states. They not only finance busi- with very little in the way of serious long-term commit- ness startups and expansions but also develop and ments. There are, however, solutions, andI would like to implement affordable housing and broker employ- highlight a few today. ment opportunities, a holistic approach. They can First we need a meaningful rural B.C. strategy. As intervene on a large scale in key sectors. They loan ap- George Penfold, regional innovation chair for rural eco- proximately $90 million per year to up to a hundred nomic development at Selkirk College in the Kootenays businesses. 4088 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 12, 2010

Unlike what has been created in B.C., these are During the last election, when I knocked on doors examples of agencies that can cross over from debt fi- throughout the riding and talked to people in rural B.C., nancing for private sector initiatives to actually directly they said: "You know what? We've got to find a way to investing in private sector businesses and providing help the forest industry. We need to be able to support businesses guidance from within as a codeveloper. That our core industry. We also need to find a way to be able is the type of leadership currently lacking in B.C. when to help diversify our economy, to create new jobs, de- it comes to rural revitalization. pend not just on forestry but be able to expand. You The third area which needs focus, if we are all in this know what we need? New jobs for our children. We province to benefit from rural areas, is social enterprise need to be able to create economic activity within our development. Social enterprises like co-ops and non- area so that our children can choose to stay and so that profits play a key role in our economy. They generate we can attract new people to our communities and to about $11 billion in revenue, and 147,000 people were our areas." employed in that sector in 2003. It's not an insignificant [1025] sector. HST does just that. It's a huge step for rural B.C., for At the basis of social enterprises is the commun- forestry. The $140 million that will be saved through- ity economic development approach, the triple bottom out the forest industry, the $80 million plus we saved in line — environment, economy, social investment — as mining and oil and gas — those types of things help to well as an inclusive approach to decision-making, where generate economic activity. community members are in control. CED also raises the Throughout rural B.C. we're very, very dependent question: who benefits the most from these activities? upon trucking. It's over $200 million that this will save The provincial government needs to make better use for the trucking industry, which will be able to help all of social enterprise as a policy tool for dealing with ma- the ma-and-pop operations right through the entire jor issues we're facing today, like rural revitalization. As economic cycle and set that base in place. well, policies that provide social enterprises with access The member for Stikine talked about having a mean- to capital will help existing services and expanding fu- ingful rural economic strategy. He wanted to create, I ture possibilities. A change in procurement policies by guess, this bureaucratic approach, this large industry or this government to improve the opportunity to purchase large design around it. from social enterprises would also allow this sector to I'd like to point out to him — and maybe he wasn't increase its activities that are extremely important to aware — that we actually have now a rural communities rural community life. and rural B.C. secretariat that's part of the Ministry of Hon. Speaker, I see my time for this segment is fast Community and Rural Development. Its task is to look approaching its end, so at this point I would like to leave at what's happening, to work with communities, to work it up to the other side to respond to my comments and with rural B.C. to be able to develop strategies. It's an in- respond to the solutions I have put forward. teresting approach. Particularly what's important about that is it's not a J. Rustad: I want to thank the member for Stikine for one-size-fits-all. It's something that goes and looks and raising this issue. The issue of rural B.C. and economic works with different communities rather than an overall development, of course, is very near and dear to my large, bureaucratic type of process that comes often out heart. It's very near and dear to our government in what of Victoria. we are trying to do within the province. The other point the member made was that he wanted There are a number of things that I want to talk to see rural economic development groups start up and about over the course of my response here, but I find be funded. The Northern Development Initiative Trust it interesting that the member for Stikine talked about and the other trusts that we've set out in the province communities that are experiencing a declining popu- with $285 million that we put in place does a lot of just lation and that this is something new. I know the that. member has been in rural B.C. and lived in rural B.C. He talks about wanting to see rural venture capital. I for many, many years. I find it hard to believe that he find that interesting, because maybe he's suggesting that doesn't understand that the trend of population mov- government should develop a rural capital strategy, and ing away from rural B.C. was something that started maybe that's some new strategy coming forward from after the 1930s and has been going on for quite a per- the NDP. The NDI is working with other agencies and iod of time. actually doing just that — setting up a way to be able to In any case, that being said, I think it's critical that when do that and doing it independently, making those deci- you look at rural B.C., when you look at the economy sions in the north. and the jobs and what people are asking for, what people I want to just talk a little bit about what we have done want to see, it's clear that we do need to put steps in place and our record around rural B.C. We provided over $2.7 that are going to try to encourage that development. billion in support to local communities. More than 60 Monday, April 12, 2010 British Columbia Debates 4089

percent of that has gone into rural B.C. since 2001. Our what members on this side of the House work towards Towns for Tomorrow program has invested over $50 day in and day out. million in 154 projects in communities under 5,000, and that has been expanded to communities between 5,000 Early Learning and 15,000. We provided $2.9 million through the reclamation J. Thornthwaite: I'm speaking today on early learning. and prospecting pilot program to help train youth from Early learning is vital to lifelong success and provides rural and First Nations communities to be able to be a foundation on which to build individual, social and employed with the mining sector. We've committed $2.1 economic well-being. In fact, there is a very compre- million to the environmental monitor assistant program hensive document, the 15 by 15: A Comprehensive Policy to help train people in First Nation communities to em- Framework for Early Human Capital Investment in B.C., ploy them in the mining sector. The list goes on and on of which we were a part. It is noted that although 71 in terms of what we have set up. percent of British Columbian children arrive at kinder- When I look throughout the north, we have invested garten meeting all the developmental benchmarks that $30 million in a container terminal in Prince Rupert, they need to thrive, both now and in the future, 29 per- another $11 million in a runway expansion in Prince cent are developmentally vulnerable. George. All of this is designed to be able to create eco- While the poor are more statistically likely to be vul- nomic opportunity, to create the environment so that nerable, the majority of the vulnerable children in B.C. people can explore, people can have those things. reside in the most populous middle class. Early vulner- Madam Speaker, once again I want to thank him for ability is a middle-class problem. It's a social cost, and bringing this issue forward. it's an economic cost, so what can we do? I believe that we are on the right track. We have D. Donaldson: I want to thank the member for made early learning a top priority because we know Nechako Lakes for his comments. I acknowledge that he investments in children benefit us all. The Nobel Prize– cares about rural revitalization. I don't think he listened winning economist James Heckman has calculated that to the solutions I put forward. By not talking about a the return on investment for early childhood learning rural B.C. strategy, I think he admitted that this govern- programs is as high as 8 to 1 — far better than many of ment has no rural B.C. strategy. the stocks and mutual funds available. Again, I agree with his enthusiasm, and it's just too Today one in four children enter kindergarten not de- bad his government doesn't share the enthusiasm for velopmentally ready to start school. To help preschool-aged rural B.C. that the member for Nechako Lakes has. children prepare for success in school, the government To conclude, for too long rural areas have been viewed is investing $43 million to expand the StrongStart B.C. by this provincial government as a resource bank where programs. StrongStart is a free, drop-in, early learning the pattern has been perpetual withdrawal with inad- program for preschool-aged children accompanied by a equate reinvestment to ensure long-term viability. parent or caregiver with organized sessions like storytime, As Dr. Greg Halseth from the University of Northern play activities and serving a healthy snack. B.C. writes: "Continuous withdrawals from the re- Currently there are more than 300 StrongStart B.C. source bank may be undercutting both present and programs in operation across B.C., offering early learn- future prospects for development not just in rural areas ing opportunities for families and children and those but provincewide. Having a vision for rural B.C. policy that have not started kindergarten. Currently there are coordination and investment in rural areas is key." I seven StrongStart centres in North Vancouver, includ- couldn't agree more. ing Eastview, Lynnmour, Seymour Heights and Lynn For too long rural areas have been ignored. We do Valley in my riding. this at our collective peril. We need a rural B.C. strategy. This document, the15 by 15 document, said that in its For too long, short-term vision has hindered progress. 2008 throne speech, the government of B.C. committed We must learn from other jurisdictions worldwide about to assessing the feasibility of full-day kindergarten for multi-year investment mechanisms and other policy children aged three to five, and they did comment that tools. For too long we have not recognized that rural this was an enormously important development and communities drive rural revenues. We need a new focus that the government deserves much credit. on social enterprises that keep communities healthy and In addition, we are beginning to deliver full-day kin- strong and vital. dergarten for five-year-olds starting in September 2010 [1030] to ensure that our youngest learners get the best pos- That will be the way to the future prosperity for all sible start in life. We're investing $280 million over in this province. That is the kind of leadership we need three years to support the implementation. All children from government. That is what people in rural B.C. ex- will have access to full-day kindergarten by September pect. That is what all people in B.C. expect, and that is 2011. 4090 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 12, 2010

The North Vancouver school district will have 671 about school programs and community services, and all-day kindergarten spots next September, which repre- additional items chosen by the school to influence school sents 70 percent of the district's projected kindergarten readiness. In 2009-2010 over 1,000 public schools were enrolment. That means that if 220 kindergarten students registered to participate in Ready, Set, Learn, including enrol in French immersion, North Vancouver could ac- Westview Elementary in North Vancouver. commodate all remaining kindergarteners in all-day K All-day kindergarten. Our commitment to phase in in the program's first year. full-day kindergarten for five-year-olds is another step We've also provided over $13 million in funding to towards building a strong foundation for lifelong learn- support 259 family resource programs that offer family ing and nurturing play-based environments. We have development services for families with children zero- committed $280 million over the next three school years to-six years of age. Family resource programs are also to implement full-day kindergarten for all five-year-olds known as neighbourhood houses or family places, and in British Columbia, and full-day kindergarten will be they offer prevention-orientated family development available for up to half of the children starting school services for families and children. this fall and for every child starting school in September We dedicated over $7 million to the aboriginal early 2011. childhood development initiatives. The aboriginal Success By 6. Success By 6 helps to ensure that chil- early childhood development initiative is focused on dren aged zero to six develop the emotional, social, supporting comprehensive, integrated and culturally cognitive and physical skills they need to enter school. sustainable, community-based programs in aborig- Since 2003 we have invested $27 million in Success By inal communities. We have two in my riding alone 6 initiatives, a community-driven United Way initiative — Squamish and Tsleil-Waututh Nation. which is dedicated to providing all children with a good The 15 by 15 report, which I mentioned earlier, is start in life. Our recent funding commitment will sup- UBC's human learning partnership. It is a collaborative port all Success By 6 programs. research initiative between researchers at UBC, members of the business community and the provincial govern- M. Karagianis: I'm happy to stand and respond to- ment that studies childhood development. We were the day to this topic of early childhood learning because, in first Canadian jurisdiction to implement provincewide fact, the investment in young people from zero to six HELP early development instrument, a neighbourhood- years of age is probably the most significant and import- by-neighbourhood survey that assesses children's stated ant investment we can make in the province, because a development upon entering kindergarten. good start in education is something that follows a child However, we can't do it alone. The document not only right through their entire life and contributes to a future notes that we need to shift our public policy to 21st cen- economy that is creative, is vibrant, and that all individ- tury social and economic issues versus relying on the uals in the province can participate in. old postwar thinking where mom stays at home and dad In listening to the comments made by the previous is the sole breadwinner, but we also need to shift our speaker, it does highlight a couple of very key issues in thinking from treating illness after the fact to promoting this age group from zero to six. I think the speaker early health from the outset of the human life course. in her comments started off to say that poor children are [1035] less likely to thrive as well in the education system or to This research evidence makes clear that this shift will be as prepared for kindergarten. accelerate economic growth over the long term. I note in We again have the very sad distinction in British this document that they have said, "Investment in health Columbia of the highest rate of child poverty in Canada and well-being occurs disproportionately in the final for the sixth year in a row, and no significant initiative years of the life course," and Canada is among a long list has been put forth by the government to address that of affluent countries that are financing their ballooning issue. So the overarching influence of child poverty on so elderly populations at the expense of their children. many children here in British Columbia will continue to The province remains committed to the goal of re- take its toll and will continue to make it difficult for many ducing the rate of early childhood vulnerability to 15 of those children to be prepared for kindergarten. percent by 2015, meaning that at least 85 percent of I would say that certainly if there's a real commitment our children would start kindergarten development- from the government to early childhood learning, it has ally ready. to be in conjunction with a real child poverty reduction TheR eady, Set, Learn program. Over the last five years plan, and I haven't seen that forthcoming. we have provided almost $18 million to operate Ready, I know that the member referred frequently to pro- Set, Learn, a program helping parents and families pre- grams like StrongStart. Again, that fits very closely with pare their three-year-olds for kindergarten. The Ministry this issue of poverty because we know that child pov- of Education provides resources for these events, includ- erty is not just restricted to single parents, to specific ing an age-appropriate book for the child, information individuals on income assistance, and that we now Monday, April 12, 2010 British Columbia Debates 4091

have the working poor in British Columbia. Poverty now, in this current budget that are defying everything has touched on families where both income earners in that they claim to be promoting. the family are out working every day, and families are more and more reliant on having both parents out in J. Thornthwaite: I'd just like to mention the com- the workforce. ment on poverty. Yes, it is a significant issue all across [1040] Canada, but I've been told that the child poverty rate is In fact, the StrongStart program is tailored very spe- now lower in British Columbia than it was when the op- cifically for families where a stay-at-home mother — or position was in power. a guardian or a caregiver of some sort — is available to One of the issues that I'd also like to mention and that accompany their child to this program. So really it rules I had mentioned — just to clarify what I said first — is out a very significant number of families. that the majority of vulnerable children in B.C. reside in Those that the member talked about earlier, those the more populous middle class, and early vulnerability poor children who are less ready for kindergarten, in is a middle-class problem. What we're trying to do with fact, are ruled out by the StrongStart program unless this government policy is to try to increase and main- they have the capacity for a parent to accompany them tain jobs and investment in the province to encourage to that program. So it's not as effective a solution, again, everyone to have a job. And that, of course, is the most as the government has touted. prominent fighter against poverty. The member talked about SuccessB y 6. That has been But carrying on about what we're trying to do to as- canvassed frequently here in the House recently. We've sist families and communities and neighbourhoods and seen that program cut by 50 percent currently, and the also to assist school districts in giving them an option future of that program is definitely in jeopardy. It's not to school closures, we are very, very committed to the clear what will happen with that. Again, this is a resource neighbourhood learning centres. The government does that has been reduced, slashed and is disappearing be- have a vision, and that vision is to have these community fore our very eyes. neighbourhood hubs where people can access educa- The all-day kindergarten which has been brought in tional community services under one roof. — again, a very interesting concept and a very support- The neighbourhood learning centres can include able concept, but given what's happened in the rest of many, many services including child care programs, of- the education system, you can't look at it in isolation fice space, health care clinics, sports programs, seniors without knowing that there are huge stresses on the edu- centres, StrongStart centres or family resource centres, cation system as we see school closures, we see school and we are developing more of these on a regular basis. boards in deep deficit situations and having to make I know that there are two that are currently running very tough choices. here in British Columbia right now — Revelstoke and How will these support systems be there for all-day Abbotsford Collegiate being two. kindergarten? That is not clear, and in fact is at this In conclusion, I am a parent. I have three children. point, I think, a contributing factor to a government that I have two children in the school system right now. I has said they're in support of early childhood learning recognize the significance of the investment being but has refused categorically to put the appropriate re- made in the province for our children's education, and I sources in place. recognize that the government's program initiatives are Coupled with cuts to things like literacy programs vital resources for parents in my riding and across B.C. and library services, we see that there are less and less The commitments to early learning education in this options for families. If I continue to go back to the issue province assure all parents that their children have the that the member introduced early on, which is about opportunities to reach their full potential. poor children being less ready for kindergarten, in fact, [1045] the kinds of programs that are available through librar- ies offer those families a fighting chance to provide the THE VALUE OF RECONCILIATION resources to their own children, to make sure that they are ready for kindergarten. B. Simpson: I want to read from a government docu- If the government consistently refuses to support the ment to start my comments this morning on the value kinds of programs that all families in British Columbia of reconciliation. can access, then we are not giving a fair opportunity to "We are all here to stay. We agree to a new government- many, many families across this province and many of to-government relationship based on respect, recognition these young people. We are failing that very initial in- and accommodation of aboriginal rights and title. Our vestment, the most important investment in those years shared vision includes respect for our respective laws zero to six. and responsibilities. Through this new relationship, we I would say that the government talks a good story, commit to reconciliation of aboriginal and Crown titles but the reality is that we've seen budget cuts here, right and jurisdictions." 4092 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 12, 2010

Noble words but, as we've seen since 2005, as yet un- It's also recognized in our constitution. Section 35 of realized. In fact, it's unfortunate, because this document the constitution recognizes First Nation rights and title raised the bar for First Nations' expectations, particu- — that the land rights of First Nations have not in fact larly around their role in shared decision-making and in been extinguished. revenue-sharing — expectations that are now on a colli- But I wanted to speak about the value from a per- sion course with reality. spective of economics, because it seems to be what the We've been here before. Up through the 1980s until government understands best. At least, that's what they the late 1980s British Columbia actually had a tacit suggest. policy of assimilation and of extinguishment of First In the new relationship document, the second Nations rights through basically ignoring the question. paragraph speaks about establishing processes and in- We are the province that has the fewest treaties, the few- stitutions for shared decision-making. It talks about est agreements with First Nations over unrealized land recognizing the inherent right for First Nations com- title and over the First Nations rights and title over their munity to make decisions as to the use of the land and, resources. therefore, the right to have a political structure for mak- Through the late '80s more and more First Nations ing those decisions. took to direct action and to protests, and as a result, the Now, having the land issue unresolved has started to government had to respond. The Social Credit govern- create some significant problems in achieving prosperity ment at the time formed the B.C. treaty task force, and in this province. The government talks about prosperity, that task force ended up, through the NDP government but how do we achieve it? that formed after that, in the B.C. Treaty Commission [1050] process. I'll have some things to say about a recent re- In the throne speech we've got the phrase "one project, port that they issued. one process." We've had a debate in this House about That Treaty Commission has been working away, and one project, one process. The problem is that that ap- we've had a couple of treaties come through this House, proach flies in the face of the real issue on achieving but the government's record was to come late to the idea prosperity — and particularly in the area of mines and of reconciliation of First Nations rights, was to come late mining activity — and that is the unresolved territorial to the whole principle that it is better for us to reconcile, rights of First Nations. it is better for us to address the legalities and the histor- I'd like to read comments from the outgoing Asso- ical precedents of First Nations rights. ciation for Mineral Exploration CEO, Rob Stevens, in The government evidenced that in their challenge response to the minister of state's overenthusiastic sug- to the Nisga'a treaty. The Crown actually chastised the gestions about what's going to happen with mining in members who sought a legal route to challenge that this province. Mr. Stevens urged the province to be con- treaty by telling them to get back in this House and chal- sistent and timely in consultation with First Nations, lenge it in the House, not it in the courts. particularly regarding development of mineral deposits The second thing, of course, was the referendum on on land where aboriginals — and this is a direct quote — First Nations, which really exacerbated the situation "have identified a territorial interest." and inflamed the feelings about First Nations in this Mr. Stevens went on to say, and this is a quote: "We province. When the new relationship document came think a more active role needs to be taken in that re- forward — and unfortunately it was done in secret, be- gard…and supporting activities once the permit is in hind closed doors — it caught people by surprise in place and to avoid challenges with those projects mov- '05. It came out, and it created some hope. It created ing forward once they have legitimately received their hope within the First Nations leadership, and the First permit." Nations Leadership Council began working with the The Premier, under questioning in question period, government to see if they could realize this new rela- indicated that no project would go forward — it was with tionship and this reconciliation. respect to the Enbridge project — with First Nations not Why is it that it's important for us to achieve recon- involved and First Nations not signing off on those pro- ciliation with First Nations? There are a range of reasons jects. Yet we've seen in two cases — one that particularly for that. speaks to the one-project, one-process problem — the Morally — because we have to get on with it. We have B.C. environmental review process approve certificates to get on with reconciling the First Nations rights and title over the express protest of First Nations. in this province. Legally we're required to do it because the In the case of Prosperity, the Tsilhqot'in National courts have indicated time and time again that the gov- Government have indicated that they will not approve ernment must sit with First Nations and resolve this issue. that mine, and yet the provincial environmental re- We've had the most recent court ruling in the William case, view process issued a certificate and indicated they saw where the judge indicated that the courts will end up re- no problems with that proposal. In the case of Mount solving these if governments cannot do so. Milligan.… Monday, April 12, 2010 British Columbia Debates 4093

Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Member. Nanaimo, the port authority, the airport commission and, then, Malaspina College — to present a shared vi- B. Simpson: Thank you, Madam Speaker.I 'll continue sion of how we see the community moving forward. All after. those groups are to participate. [1055] R. Cantelon: The member for Cariboo North So here we had an opportunity, a great opportunity, mentioned that the process, the concept behind recon- for the shared vision to benefit economically in a very ciliation, is a noble idea. I would support many of the positive way First Nations and the port authority and things he said, but it's certainly more than a noble idea. the greater community. The provincial government It's now a constitutional imperative for us to move for- funded a share, the port authority funded a share, and ward and develop reconciliation. the federal government funded a share. Reconciliation must lead to many things. It must lead This is to be a cruise ship terminal that will be a great to a more formal understanding of how we deal with icon for cooperative development within the commun- each other, how we develop economic opportunities ity, and a great opportunity. We do know that people are among each other, and to move forward in a positive looking for cultural tourism and First Nations tourism way. In dealing with local First Nations, I think one of from places as far away as China. the largest expectations…. And I agree that we have cre- But it reached an impasse. It was a critical case of people ated hope, and we must fulfil that expectation of hope not communicating, that the values and the methods of and economic opportunity and sharing within each of communication crossed paths. As the Deputy Minister our individual communities. of Infrastructure pointed out, it was like ships passing. I'm not going to try to speak broadly across the They weren't on the same course at all. province here. We have 203 bands throughout British But I want to tell you that it can be made to work. I Columbia, and I would say we have 203 challenges to had the opportunity to sit down with the port author- face in each of these communities. ity on an Easter Monday, perhaps an appropriate day It's incumbent on the local MLAs, on the local people to spend a couple of hours with them. I then spent a and the community to reach out to the First Nations couple of hours with the First Nations, and I am pleased in their area and develop more common understand- to say that those differences in the eleventh hour were ing, to build that very difficult and very tenuous thing resolved. called trust between the First Nations' cultures and the I'd like to give you a few comments from the chief. European and other cultures. It's very, very difficult.O ur The headline in their release is: "Snuneymuxw First history has not been good. The residential schools fiasco Nation Consents to a Pathway Forward." They look for- — worse than that; it was a tragedy — has certainly dis- ward to an agreement whereby both parties can share in tempered the entire discussion. the economic opportunity that this great development Recently — and I want to relate to a specific inci- presents. dent — we have a great economic opportunity within One of the issues certainly was environmental con- Snuneymuxw traditional territory to build a cruise ship cerns, and I think that all the community members as terminal. This came to a head, to a crisis. There's no well as First Nations share the concerns that the de- doubt that the Nanaimo Harbour — which is one of the velopment in the harbour doesn't go forward in a way finest harbours in British Columbia, may I add — was that harms the traditional fishery of the First Nations. the traditional territory of the Snuneymuxw. We've now, It's certainly a very fertile area for crabbing in this in discussions…. area. When anything is going on in the city of Nanaimo Chief Doug White has said that they're going to — and I'm sure this is done in many communities now have an open process that invites the community in to — we immediately acknowledge that this is their trad- hear their concerns and share their concerns in a very itional territory — in this case of the Snuneymuxw. positive, moving-forward way. He says: "We welcome I'm sure all politicians and all community leaders now all the citizens of Nanaimo to give input into our en- recognize that. That didn't happen just a few years ago. vironmental review process." Madam Speaker, I think So we're moving forward in slow steps, and there's no this is a good example of how things can work and question that we need to do that. will work. Again, I share the member for Cariboo North's em- phasis on economics, because I think if we can do B. Simpson: I appreciate the member for Parksville- anything to develop reconciliation, it is to lift the eco- Qualicum's words, but one particular instance does not nomic opportunity of First Nations. make the general case, and it's the general case that's the I want to return to the port authority and the pro- problem. It's the unrealized expectations. It's the raising posed cruise ship terminal. This was developed through of the bar from the new relationship and the fact that the a shared vision between the First Nations, the city of government has failed to deliver on that. 4094 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 12, 2010

Let me finish with Prosperity in Mount Milligan, be- Mr. Speaker: Hon. Members, unanimous consent of cause it goes to what the government is doing with their the House is required to proceed with Motion 4 without proposed one project, one process — that is, to continue disturbing the priorities of motions preceding it on the to poke First Nations in the eye over the very issue of order paper. unrealized and unrecognized territorial rights. Leave granted. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Private Members' Motions In the case of Prosperity, when the government issued its press release approving the environmental certificate, MOTION 4 — trade partnership no mention was made of First Nations whatsoever. The with alberta and saskatchewan government indicated that they saw no problems with that proposal, with the exception of the loss of Fish Lake D. Horne: I move: and Little Fish Lake, which is precisely the issue for First [Be it resolved that this House support the creation of the New Nations. They have indicated they will never allow that West Partnership with Alberta and Saskatchewan which will foster free trade, investment and labour mobility through the lake to be drained. development of unified and mutually beneficial purchasing, pro- Now, the Union of B.C. Indian Chiefs has jumped into curement and licensing opportunities.] the fray, and Chief Stuart Phillip has indicated that they This is consistent with this government's commitment don't like Taseko's approach. They don't like…. That's with building stronger trade and building opportun- the mining company involved. ity for British Columbia businesses as outlined in our But the real issue — and I've had this discussion with throne speech in February: "New economic growth and Taseko — is: where is the Crown? Where is the province smarter government is at the heart of our new west part- of British Columbia in showing leadership? Instead of nership with Alberta and Saskatchewan. It will build issuing the environmental certificate, what are they do- on the success of the Trade, Investment and Labour ing to facilitate and actually realize the new relationship Mobility Agreement to foster free trade investment and and shared decision-making? labour mobility across our three provinces." So as Mr. Stevens indicated from the association of mining exploration, the province must show more [L. Reid in the chair.] leadership and not attempt to pass the obligation on to the companies. The courts have also agreed with that. I think it's important to step back and talk about the In the case of Mount Milligan, for example, all project necessity, the appropriateness and the importance of approvals have been realized, federal and provincial. Once building trade relationships. As a small economy in the again, the issue is First Nations rights. Once again, this global sense, it's extremely important that we allow our project will not proceed without the First Nations address- businesses the ability to access larger markets and that ing their issues. One project, one process doesn't do it. we allow our businesses to have the ability to prosper So this government…. within those markets. I was actually up in the Okanagan this last weekend Interjection. celebrating the birthday of the member for Vernon- Monashee and had a wonderful time up there and met B. Simpson: I hear the Environment Minister chip- with some farmers who had an orchard. They're grow- ping away. Here's a challenge to the Environment ing apples. Minister. This government was given a proposal by the One of the things that really stood out to me was…. First Nations Energy and Mining Council last week. He commented that the entire apple production of That proposal was for an environmental review process British Columbia is about four million bushels. If you that would meaningfully engage First Nations. take a look at the apple production of Washington, it's [1100] about a hundred million bushels. Give or take 5 or 10 What has the response been from the government? percent either way, depending on whether you have a None. What has the response been from this minister good crop or a bad crop that year…. Ten percent repre- and the Minister of State for Mining? "Oh, we're quite sents more than double the entire production of the happy with the process the way it is," despite the fact province of British Columbia. You look at things like that it is causing First Nations to once again, like the late this, you look at the size of these markets and you look 1980s, take to direct process. Unrealized promise; un- at our ability. realized potential. Let's get on with reconciliation. Trade agreements. The importance with trade agree- ments is not only to ensure that we have access to Hon. B. Penner: We're now dealing with private markets but to make sure that the trade and the playing members' motions. I call Motion 4 on the order paper. field remain fair. Monday, April 12, 2010 British Columbia Debates 4095

We need to put frameworks into place so that when ships in place, the agreements in place — in order that we have difficulties with our trading partners, when we our province and that our businesses can succeed and have difficulties with those that we're doing business can prosper for the future. with, we have a mechanism, a framework, in place in order to be able to address that, in order to be able to B. Ralston: It's my pleasure to rise in response to take those difficulties, those differences and those prob- the motion. What I want to start off by talking about is lems being faced by our businesses, farmers — those the premise on which the member opposite bases his that build the economy of British Columbia and cre- remarks. ate jobs for all of our citizens — and make sure we're He did say that we don't have free trade within protected. Canada, if my note is accurate. Professor John Helliwell When we use the word "protection," it's not about — a leading economist, as the Finance Minister might protecting and making sure that we close our borders. refer to him as, at University of British Columbia — was It's about making sure that we have open opportunity commissioned by the Saskatchewan government to do for everyone but that that playing field remains fair and an analysis of the TILMA arrangement. What he con- in a position that all can prosper from, obviously, espe- cluded was that entering into TILMA, for Saskatchewan, cially those from British Columbia. wouldn't really change economic growth at all. You look at the opportunity and what western I'm going to quote from him just so it's accurate. He provinces represent — British Columbia, Alberta, was specifically addressing the potential gains from en- Saskatchewan. Our combined GDP is $555 billion. tering into TILMA: That's a fairly significant amount. If you take a look at "My reason for putting such a small upper bound on possible other countries in the world, that would put us in a pos- gains, whether static or dynamic, and how they might be shared ition fairly high on the order of magnitude with other or shifted among partner provinces is that the differences between TILMA and the AIT in terms of potential cost reductions is very countries around the world. We're talking about a group small, a tiny fraction of the magnitude of what was at stake in that has considerable strength and a group that, working the international trade treaties. This is because trade is essentially together, does provide a lot of power. unfettered already among provinces." [1105] That's the quotation, and I want to stress particularly…. The interesting thing that I always find is when we And this is, as the Finance Minister likes to say, a lead- talk about trade…. We talk about trading with China, ing economist. "This is because trade is essentially or we talk about trading with Russia or with Mexico unfettered already among provinces." So the idea that or with our Latin American friends, our European there are all these barriers and that this agreement is friends, and the importance of making sure that we necessary is just not based in fact. have unfettered access to those markets. One of the The second thing is, and it's significant when one most unique things about Canada which I always find looks at the motion…. Historically in Canada, the interesting is that we actually don't have free trade Prairies have been considered a region — that is, Alberta, within Canada. We actually have trade barriers today Saskatchewan, Manitoba — and British Columbia, a between our provinces. separate region. Perhaps notably in the past, W.A.C. Our ability to move throughout our country, to move Bennett put forward a constitutional proposal which goods and services throughout our country…. Even had British Columbia consolidating with the Yukon and labour mobility for someone who is of a certain trade or the Prairie provinces as one constitutional unit as well. profession — for them to practise in other areas of the So there's a long tradition. country remains a difficulty in many areas. This is some- This motion — for some reason; one can only specu- thing important for us to address. You know, it's one of late — excludes Manitoba. One wonders why that might the things we always say — that it's important to have be. Perhaps the government of Manitoba is not, in the your own house in order before you go and start telling partisan lens of the government office, seen as a govern- and working with others. ment that they want to deal with. One of the difficulties right now and one of the things What is really striking in talking about creating rough that we have to do over time is we have to continue to equality between the provinces for the purposes of make sure that our own house is in order; that we have working together, increasing trade among the provinces, the ability to trade within the provinces; that we have increasing prosperity is that…. It's striking. There is no the ability for labour mobility; that we have the ability HST in Alberta. They've never had a sales tax. to ensure that we can work well as a team and move for- [1110] ward globally and work together; and that, as a province The government of Premier Wall in Saskatchewan, and as a country, we are seen as leaders. after much consideration — and I don't think they've That,I think, is the importance of building these trade changed their mind at this point — has not brought in arrangements. I think that is the importance of making an HST in Saskatchewan. The Manitoba government sure that we have the frameworks in place, the relation- has decided recently not to impose an HST upon their 4096 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 12, 2010

citizens. So there seems to be an economic unity be- I think the default position should always be to open tween those prairie provinces, and British Columbia is and free trade between Canadian jurisdictions. It ought very much out of sync. not to matter a great deal as to which province exactly One wonders how easy or realistic or practical it will you're from. If you're an individual that happens to be be to fulfil the ambitions set out in this motion when living in Ontario and you've been educated as a teacher you have three prairie provinces which have a very dif- and you want to come to work in British Columbia, I ferent tax structure than British Columbia — at least if say, "Welcome to British Columbia," without any further the legislation passes here in British Columbia, might to-do. But in the past those kinds of decisions have been be here. fraught with all kinds of recertification requirements I think it's significant looking at what the Minister and what have you. of Finance in Manitoba said about the economic fu- The same is true for people who work in medical pro- ture of her province. I'm going to quote here: "With the fessions and others. These are people that we want. These global recession causing so much economic uncertainty are people that often want to come to British Columbia for Manitoba families, we don't think it makes sense to and have been, in various ways, discouraged from do- impose $405 million in new sales taxes. We are not pre- ing so. pared to risk the economic recovery by undermining Now, the previous member talked about the different Manitoba's growing consumer confidence." regions in this country. While it is true that we geograph- The opportunities are seen by the Minister ofF inance ically have different regions in this country, that doesn't in Manitoba as a future without the HST, not to dam- mean, however, that we need to be thinking about the age the recovery. Manitoba is very competitive by regions specifically in trade or economic terms. We almost all measures — the KPMG studies and a num- are all Canadians, and we ought to start thinking like ber of other studies — in terms of its general business Canadians. Although we do have somewhat different tax climate. So there seems to be a real symmetry between structures, I am not particularly afraid of that either. those three provinces, and yet British Columbia is out [1115] on its own. I know that in British Columbia we have the most This motion — I'm not sure quite what the motiva- competitive tax structure in all of Canada. Because of tion of it is, but given that radical disparity between the that, we are going to be very well positioned to grow and emerging tax structure in British Columbia and the develop in the future and have more jobs available to prairie provinces, it seems doomed to failure. Those are British Columbians as a result of those competitive tax among the real concerns that businesses would have in structures. looking forward to economic prosperity across the re- Also, the agreement that was signed with Alberta gions and across the country. several years ago — the trade, investment and labour mobility accord…. When that was looked at by the J. Les: I'm pleased to rise this morning for a few Conference Board of Canada, they suggested that it moments to discuss this motion, and I commend the could result in the net increase of 78,000 additional jobs member for Coquitlam–Burke Mountain for bringing it in British Columbia. forward. Trade policy is obviously fundamental to de- Clearly, I think that people who look at and study veloping a strong economy, an economy with economic these things all agree that when it comes to trade policy, growth prospects. we ought not to be xenophobic. We ought to be open to It has often been a mystery to me why we asC anadians the world, open certainly to other Canadians, and when insist on so much balkanization within our own country. we adopt that position, we will prosper. It has been said in the past — and I think, to a degree at We saw in the '90s under the Glen Clark government least, it is still true today — that it is more difficult to trade that the isolationism that was in vogue then certainly within our own country than with some international didn't do British Columbia any good. But we have seen countries abroad. That truly, I think, distinguishes us as more recently that we are attracting further investment, Canadians, perhaps not in a very positive way. and importantly as well, British Columbians are see- We in British Columbia, though, over the last num- ing investment and employment opportunities in other ber of years have been taking the lead to ensure that we provinces that are all to the good for us here in British break down some of those barriers between provinces Columbia. to enable Canadians to deal with each other on a level Again, I very much support this motion. I'm glad playing field and in a way that is conducive to more in- we've had an opportunity to debate it this morning, and vestment within our country and to more job growth. I look forward to further speakers. I think, equally as importantly, it's conducive to ensur- ing that individual Canadians have choice — choice in D. Black: I'm pleased to have the opportunity to stand where they work, choice in where they invest. I think and speak to the motion that's been put on the floor this that is all to the good. morning. Monday, April 12, 2010 British Columbia Debates 4097

Madam Speaker, it's important to acknowledge that works towards a strong economy for everyone in the this motion actually follows up on the rejection of province. TILMA by the Premiers of Canada. Both Saskatchewan This government promised to protect education and and Manitoba rejected TILMA. The Saskatchewan health care in an election that was held less than a year Premier in fact expressed deep concerns about the nega- ago. They promised to improve student aid, but im- tive impact on Crown corporations and municipal tax mediately following the election, what have we seen? A incentives. Premier Wall recently said about this new government that has betrayed the people of B.C. Huge west partnership: "We have concerns…that remain con- cuts to student aid. B.C. students carry the highest debt sistent with us, and I think they will be accommodated." load in Canada. They are actually mortgaging their He thinks they will be accommodated. future. If the B.C. Liberal government hadn't signed that deal originally behind closed doors, if, like the govern- Deputy Speaker: Member, I would bring you back to ment of Saskatchewan, the B.C. government had put the the motion under debate. agreement out to public consultation, consultation with municipalities — real consultation, real input — B.C. D. Black: Thank you, Madam Speaker. municipalities may have had the opportunity then to The government has actually flatlined funding for post- address their very valid concerns. In fact, by negotiating secondary education, and that relates to this motion, this deal in secrecy, it was rejected by the UBCM. because what we really need to see in B.C. is a government If these agreements were public, if they had the bene- that's committed to the new economy in British Columbia fit of consultation, then perhaps British Columbians — a knowledge-based economy. We need a government may have had a deal that was negotiated on behalf of that will fund post-secondary education at the level it British Columbians and a deal that really does respond needs to be, look towards research and development in to B.C. interests. order to be players and to ensure that British Columbia is It was stated earlier by the member for Surrey- part of a new knowledge-based economy. Whalley that there are studies that indicate that trade We know that the interprovincial trade is ongoing. has always flourished between provinces inC anada and We need to acknowledge in B.C. the changing nature that this motion seems sort of oddly out of context with of the B.C. economy. The losses in B.C.'s forest sector, those reports that have been done by noted economists which was once the backbone of our economy, are ac- — economists who were noted by our Finance Minister, tually staggering. This kind of agreement is going to do as a matter of fact. nothing to change that. The government has failed the The biggest interprovincial issue is actually the HST. very heartland of British Columbia that they promised The HST has been rejected by both Manitoba and Sas- in early years to protect. katchewan. The Premier of Manitoba said Manitobans The motion before us seems to be innocuous enough. would pay an additional $400 million in taxes under I'm not sure what it is intended to accomplish, whether a merged GST. In fact, he was quoted recently, saying: it will in fact accomplish anything, but I really urge "With the global recession causing so much economic un- this government to look ahead, to look to the changing certainty for Manitoba families, we don't think it makes economy in British Columbia and to fund the kind of sense to impose $405 million in new sales taxes. We are research developments so that we do move ahead in B.C. not prepared to risk the economic recovery by under- to a knowledge-based economy that works for the bene- mining Manitoba's growing consumer confidence." fit of all British Columbians. Thank you very much. That's a direct quote from the Finance Minister in Manitoba. The Saskatchewan Premier said that their gov- D. Hayer: I support my colleague from Coquitlam– ernment's opposition to the HST remains unchanged. Burke Mountain's motion for the creation of the new So while these western governments — all of the other west partnership with Alberta and Saskatchewan to fos- western governments — reject the HST, we've got a gov- ter free trade, investment and labour mobility within ernment here in British Columbia that promised, only a British Columbia and those two western provinces. few short months ago in writing, that there would be no This motion builds on a promise that our government HST only to betray British Columbians and introduce made February 14 in the throne speech that the new the very tax they promised to avoid. west partnership will generate new economic growth. [1120] It only makes sense to work cooperatively with west- During economic uncertainty and a fragile recovery ern provinces, our partner provinces, to unify beneficial here in British Columbia, this government saddles B.C. purchasing, procurement and licensing opportunities. with an unfair tax that will actually produce less in rev- That will save money for all of our constituents and all enue to government, and it makes absolutely no sense. our residents. The kind of leadership we really need from our govern- The world and Canada have endured a remarkable ment in British Columbia is the kind of leadership that economic downturn over the past 18 months or so. The 4098 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 12, 2010

only way to grow and return to the financial success I also like that this partnership is designed to be inclu- we all enjoyed for so long is to rebuild our economy. sive. Our government is urging the federal government Building a better and strong economy is one of the and all other provinces and territories to join in by re- best ways to get things going, and one of the best ways moving unnecessary internal trade barriers, duplication to make sure the economy is strong is to remove the and red tape. barriers and to promote free trade internally in our I fully support the way this will improve our economy. nation. It will be beneficial to allB ritish Columbians and all the Those steps were begun last fall when our cabinet people who live in the west. It will create more and se- joined the two western provinces at a joint meeting and cure jobs and maintain a financial climate that allows signed the western economic partnership. The deal will families to prosper. now be called the new west partnership, and it's built In addition, a strong, productive, competitive econ- on TILMA, the Trade, Investment and Labour Mobility omy allows the government to address pressing social Agreement that was signed in April 2006 and that took issues. So we need this agreement. This partnership full force on April 1, 2009, between B.C. and Alberta. creates those opportunities. It will allow all small busi- Following the B.C. and Alberta lead, AIT, an agree- ness in B.C. greater access to government and public ment on internal trade, was signed on December 8 procurement contracts in western provinces, including between all provinces and territories to establish full Crown corporations, provincial ministries, municipal- labour mobility under the agreement on internal trade. ities, school boards and hospitals. B.C. professionals and This newAIT labour mobility provision came into force businesses will have a greater opportunity to bid on gov- on April 1, 2009, which allows people with specific pro- ernment jobs and contracts in the western provinces. fessions and occupational certifications in one province Madam Speaker, I understand I'm running out of or territory to be recognized as qualified to practise their time. There are many other speakers who want to speak profession in all provinces and territories in Canada on this. I fully support this motion. I know at the end of where that practice is registered and regulated across the day, the opposition will also support this motion — Canada. this free trade agreement within western Canada. The new partnership creates the largest barrier-free trade and investment market in Canada, if not North J. Kwan: Well, I rise to enter into this debate, and I America, resulting in unprecedented economic partner- find there are a couple of points interesting to me. Let ship representing a total of nine million people with a me just outline them for you, Madam Speaker. combined GDP of $555 billion. You know, the motion has been put forward by the This partnership will enhance competitiveness, eco- government members. As we speak, actually…. As we nomic growth and stability, increase opportunities and know right now, Saskatchewan actually has not signed choices for workers and consumers, investors and busi- on to this deal, much to the government's touting of nesses, and reduce costs to the consumers, businesses this agreement, and notwithstanding the fact that on and government for more development that is sustain- this notion of this new west partnership with the west- able and environmentally sound, with high levels of ern region we're missing one particular region named consumer protection and health and labour standards. Manitoba. It supports ongoing trade and investment liberalization, If you want to talk about balkanizing — the mem- both nationally and internationally. ber for Chilliwack said earlier that somehow he didn't [1125] understand why provinces like to balkanize — I would This means for investors, for businesses, for job cre- suggest that this might be an example of it. ation, the region will be seen as one providing a more Even if you went the route of choosing a regional, a attractive environment to build and grow business and western region, sort of approach to it, selecting certain create jobs. The partnership will also give workers and provinces and not others — when clearly Manitoba is business across the region a level playing field, allowing part of the western provinces — is mystifying. There's greater opportunity and more choices to grow, to move only one explanation to that — only one explana- and to succeed. tion. What would that be? Oh, that would be because This partnership will remove unnecessary barriers, Manitoba doesn't support this approach. That's why. In reduce costs and improve competitiveness for business fact, Manitoba proposed a different approach. They ac- and benefit consumers. By removing the trade barriers, tually proposed a national strategy. by removing differences in government standards and Now, how about that? How about a national strat- regulation across the three western provinces, making egy on the notion of not balkanizing? Here we have the sure that red tape and differences are eliminated in the member for Chilliwack saying, "Gee, I don't know why trade barriers, this partnership is a smarter way of pro- provinces like to balkanize. But we like to select certain viding government, which will improve dramatically provinces as part of the western region" — not to bal- the opportunity for economic recovery. kanize though, because Manitoba is not part of it, and Monday, April 12, 2010 British Columbia Debates 4099

not to actually sign on to and go and support a national Hence, we have this situation today. Since the an- strategy and to actually put the effort into that instead. nouncement of the process back in March of 2009, we Wouldn't that be not balkanizing? have an agreement that's not been signed, even though [1130] the government likes to tout how great it is and so on. Not according to this group of government members, The agreement is not signed, and Saskatchewan main- I guess. Their definition of balkanizing is their own def- tains concerns and issues, and raises concerns about this inition, because it fits their political agenda. That's what agreement. So much for openness and accountability. So it is, and that's what it's all about. That's what this mo- much for promoting free trade and mobility, and what's tion is all about. in the best interests of British Columbia. Then we just touch on another point — on the issue of process. Now, members around this House would have J. McIntyre: I'm delighted to be able to rise in my remembered those days. I'm sure you would remem- place here to speak to Motion 4, and I would actually ber, Madam Speaker. What about all those open cabinet like to speak to the motion before us. Somehow there meetings? "Oh, well, you know, we've got to be open, seems to be a disconnect between this side of the House transparent and accountable and show the world what and that side of the House, because they're talking about we're doing." open cabinet meetings, HST and whatever. I thought we There was this whole charade about open cabinet were talking about a western partnership. I don't know meetings. Then what happened here? Those open cabinet whether I didn't get the memo, or what. meetings are now long gone. Not that when they were With that, I of course support this motion. It ultim- having open cabinet meetings that they were worth the ately speaks to building an even stronger economy in salt anyway, because they were all rehearsed meetings. British Columbia. We have a situation where you can Notwithstanding that, we have this process here of clearly see that the economic power in this country is Alberta and Saskatchewan going behind closed doors migrating west. The resource-based economies of our with the Premier and his cabinet here in B.C., behind three western provinces have products that the world is closed doors to talk about this deal. Now, you've got to demanding more and more. We have a potential to be- ask the question: what was the government trying to come a genuine western powerhouse. hide? We're operating in a global economy. Canada itself is They say they support trade, that they want to re- a small partner in this, and B.C. is even smaller. We need move barriers and that they're proud of the process of to band together, to get rid of interprovincial barriers that engaging in that. Why wouldn't they do that in an open are keeping us less competitive and less productive. cabinet meeting? Show the world. Talk to the world. Tell As many have said before me, it's easier to deal north- British Columbians what they're up to. But oh no, they south on this continent than it is east-west, and that's not couldn't do that. They couldn't do that, not at all. right. We have a major initiative of this government, the Then they go and negotiate a deal behind closed Pacific Gateway. It's as important to British Columbia doors. Guess what. They only actually jeopardized their and especially to Canada as the St. Lawrence Seaway own action, because it caused British Columbians — was to Canada when they opened trade to Europe in and rightfully so — the municipal leaders, the UBCM, the '50s. We have increased potential to be shipping the local governments to reject TILMA, and that is what Saskatchewan's potash and Alberta's oil and gas prod- this agreement is supposed to be building on. They re- ucts through B.C. ports to the fastest-growing economies jected it. Why? Because this government chose to hide in the world: China and India. Alberta's economy is in behind closed doors. They choose not to have an open, pipe. They need access to world markets. accountable and transparent process. [1135] Had the government engaged in that, who knows? And what do we have? The Port of Prince Rupert, The UBCM might well have supported TILMA and which is the closest port to Asia after Vancouver — both might well have supported this agreement. They might of them well ahead of and more efficient than the U.S. even have some good suggestions for the government ports on the Pacific Rim. We have a $150 million invest- to consider, that they might actually want to accom- ment by CN in the Port of Prince Rupert. modate to ensure that British Columbians' interests are Those are jobs in a rural economy. Those are the jobs incorporated. that the NDP purport to support. No, what do they do? Well, how about that for a change — open, account- They oppose all of these kinds of programs. They op- able and consultative with local governments and local pose these things that are designed to boost economic authorities, where these kinds of agreements would ac- development in rural areas of our province like green tually impact them? No, not at all. Not with this group power production and HST. of government MLAs, and not with the Liberal gov- When the new west is aligned, we can operate as a ernment. No, siree. They cannot engage in that kind of single economic region with a combined GDP of $555 process. billion and nine million people. In my four years at 4100 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 12, 2010

PNWER and my time in Intergovernmental Relations, I There are also other benefits from this economic part- had firsthand experience of the power of regional solu- nership. We can fight together for open skies. We can tions for national issues and national problems. We lobby together with a much bigger, louder voice about worked on economic and environmental stability in the things that will help the western economies through region through the Western Climate Initiative. tourism. Justice issues. We've got health, volume buying We were working on things like carbon capture stor- for drugs and things like that — all sorts of benefits of a age, the research and development with pilots that are western partnership. going on in Alberta and a pilot between Saskatchewan In summary, this makes so much sense. In short, and North Dakota. We worked on the enhanced driv- increased opportunities and choice for workers, con- er's licence that would mitigate against the thickening sumers and investors; decreased costs for consumers, of our borders with the U.S. I got to see firsthand business and government; increased productivity; more Saskatchewan's interest in joining PNWER and then attractive for foreign investment and job creation; more in joining the joint cabinet meetings we had with clout in our Canadian federation; driving Canada's eco- Alberta. nomic growth. This is a win-win for British Columbia. I would also like to speak very briefly on the benefits of TILMA. Much has been said about that this morning. B. Simpson: To the member's comments from North That is between Alberta and British Columbia. It re- Vancouver–Seymour, where she wasn't quite sure why moved costly barriers to investment, increased mobility we were talking about Manitoba and Saskatchewan, it's of skilled workers and allowed for greater consistency in because it's the western partnership which involves recognizing foreign credentials for workers between our Saskatchewan and…. two provinces. We created the second-largest economy at that stage Interjection. with $5 billion additional to our GDP and 77,000 jobs. We had 225 companies that have now registered to do B. Simpson: Sorry, I got the wrong…. My mistake, business in Alberta, so we've been expanding business my error. Anyway, the member who just spoke. opportunities for our British Columbia businesses. [1140] Businesses registered in one province are automatic- One of the things that I am curious about, as I listen ally registered in the other, saving lots of time and to the government members speak about this, is how a effort and dollars with unnecessary regulation and red western partnership avoids balkanization. The members tape. The most important thing is that the health, en- over there keep mixing up Canada-wide trade agree- vironmental and safety standards were all maintained, ments, Canadian free trade, with trade with Alberta or a contrary to what the NDP would have you believe. western trade arrangement. I'd also like to talk about the agreement on inter- The logic would hold that if you're only going to do an nal trade. That is the agreement that all provinces were agreement with Alberta and try and get free trade with signatories to. All of this morning, I don't think I've Alberta, or you're only going to do a western partner- heard it mentioned once by members of the other side. ship, you're still balkanizing Canada. I'm not quite sure They are focusing on all sorts of things that were not how the argument for going down this path is an argu- even related to the topics, but they don't admit and tell ment against balkanization. You're still proceeding in British Columbians that provinces like Manitoba and that fashion. As our member, the Finance critic, pointed Saskatchewan, which, for some reason, they've been fo- out, leading economists have indicated that we have free cusing on this morning — guess what — are signatories trade in Canada already. to the agreement on internal trade. What is it we're attempting to accomplish? Well, I It was B.C. that led the charge on that agreement. In think one of the debates that we need to have in this fact, we recently became the first province to introduce House or in committee at some point is the whole role legislation to establish labour mobility for skilled and cer- that trade agreements play in the global economy, but as tified workers right across Canada. Under the new AIT the spinoff in our social systems, in how we treat the en- labour mobility chapter, all nurses, teachers and other vironment and how we treat individuals. professionals who are recognized in other provinces will It's easy to argue, and it's easy to see, as we've seen in be free to practise anywhere in Canada, as they should. the global meltdown, that trade agreements are culpable We now have a much more level playing field. in what's happening, in what we're seeing with the loss There are obvious benefits to an economic part- of the middle class, in what we're seeing with the deg- nership. Procurement. We've B.C. businesses getting radation of the environment, in what we're seeing with greater access to all government contracts. We've got the increasing poverty. Free trade agreements, under the volume purchasing for supplies and equipment. We've guise of increasing prosperity and increasing competi- got licensing — you know, ease of licensing with skilled tiveness, are actually the way that we have engaged in certified employees having greater mobility. the race to the bottom. Monday, April 12, 2010 British Columbia Debates 4101

In order to achieve free trade over the last number sure they maximize the local potential of their beef of decades, we have given up much of the progress we production. have made on employment standards. We have given up [1145] much of the progress we've made on quality workplaces They have a fundamental question: if we open up and and safe workplaces. We have given up on environ- take away any barriers, if we make sure that Alberta has mental standards. We have lost good-quality, paying complete access to our marketplace, will that hurt them? jobs that supported families for the long term and sub- It's an open question. Why is that an open question? stituted those with service sector jobs, part-time jobs Because this government refuses to go and consult with and self-employment. the people of British Columbia. If free trade is going to continue on that path of Therefore, if we want to have this kind of approach, globalization, the question that needs to be answered let's go talk to the people of B.C. Let's see if it's some- is: prosperity for whom and competitiveness at what thing they want. We may very well hear what Premier cost? Wall has heard from the people of Saskatchewan: "No, As we talk about freeing trade further with Alberta thank you very much." In which case, this government and with Saskatchewan, I think one of the reasons why has an obligation to respond to the people of British this government won't take that out to public debate — Columbia and not to their own spin doctors over in and we've raised that over and over in this House and public affairs. out in the public — is that they're afraid to hear from the public that they don't want us to continue in the race to S. Cadieux: I'm pleased to — I was going to say "stand" the bottom. They are afraid thatTIL MA is a continuation — be here in support of this motion today and take my of the erosion of environmental standards, workplace place in the debate. I think we're missing the point here. standards and regulatory ability for government. At the same time, I think it's clear that the debate is once That's precisely why the Saskatchewan Premier has again laying out the fundamental differences between indicated that he's not interested in TILMA, because this side of the House — our entrepreneurial nature, our he's afraid of that exact thing. He's afraid that in order ability to represent businesses, small business people to sign on to this, he will have to give up the sovereignty who know about the necessary role of competition and of Saskatchewan to determine what quality workplaces of risk in successful business — and that side of the look like, to determine environmental standards, to de- House, which is scared of progress, scared of change, termine what role government plays in stimulating the scared of competition, scared of anything that doesn't Saskatchewan economy. That's precisely why Premier first start with the singing of Kumbayah. Wall has indicated that he is very concerned about the This is about diversifying our economy. This is about TILMA approach to so-called free trade in the western removing barriers and allowing businesses and trade to provinces. be freely interacted between our provinces, just as we Again, as we've raised, Saskatchewan has not signed are often much more able to do with other parts of the on to this. It was promised that they would sign on in world. We're looking at building on agreements that we January. already have in place with B.C. and Alberta, a new part- Once again we have from this government a catch- nership that will create a larger, broader, interprovincial phrase brought into this House — words that suggest trade agreement. that TILMA has realized all kinds of things already and This isn't about picking and choosing. It's about tak- which are not substantiated. If the government wants ing a step. It's about leading. It's about saying: "We know to substantiate that, bring the report forward. Bring the this is the right direction to go. This is the right direction report forward that substantiates that TILMA has bene- for Canada as a whole. We're happy to talk to any prov- fited British Columbia and in what way. ince that wants to move forward on this initiative. We'll Theoretically, making trade freer, if it's necessary, continue to work with the federal government and all of seems on the surface to be a good thing, but there the partners, moving forward." are many traps, and we've been in that place already. We need to take a serious look and recognize that we Here's an example. Freeing trade with Alberta, which have a very strong economic foundation in the west. We is a powerhouse in ranching, may actually undermine have an opportunity to continue to move forward with — and our local ranchers are concerned about that — a framework for collaboration and innovation. We need small-production ranchers. to make sure that we can keep an open, efficient, stable As the Ranching Task Force pointed out, 97 percent marketplace for our businesses and for the people that of all ranches in British Columbia are in the small- and are employing the people of British Columbia. medium-sized range, and of that, 64 percent of those We need to make sure that we have opportunities for small- and medium-sized ranches account for all of the choice for workers and consumers and investors. We farm cash receipts. Those individuals are often trying to need to make sure that we are continually reducing the grow the local economy. They're often trying to make cost of those operations so that they continue to thrive 4102 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 12, 2010

and continue to take risk and move their businesses You know, this is the same old song that's been sung many forward. times in this Legislature. Way back in 2006, I believe, the We are really remiss if we don't recognize that non- government was making mention of a new agreement — tariff barriers are a real cost. The Conference Board of the TILMA. We heard it over and over again in 2007. It's Canada survey in June 2005 indicated that the majority been addressed in this House in 2008 and in 2009 lead- of Canadian companies felt negatively affected by inter- ing up to the election. provincial barriers, and those things included standards, It seems to be the task of this government to bring regulation, licensing requirements and labour mobility. forward old, tired-out positions — brought forward The vast majority of Canadian companies feel that sort of through a napkin and reintroduced over and they are limited in their operations and their ability to over again — because they're void of any new positions. compete, but we shouldn't address that? That's ridicu- There's a vacuum over there. They are empty. We've lous. The standard of living and opportunities available heard it before. for British Columbians are dependent on being pro- You know, the agreement's been in place, we hear, so ductive and on having a free economy. why are you bringing it forward? It's regurgitating it. TheN DP would like to continue to support protection- They're bringing it up over and over again, andI have to ist ideology and build a wall around the province. They say that it doesn't taste the same the second time. It just seem to completely ignore the fact that the agreement on doesn't work. It's stale. We're waiting for some innova- interprovincial trade that all of the provinces and terri- tion from over there, but it's not going to come. It's a tories signed onto is what we're talking about today. tired-out, old regime. It's moving forward on those types of relationships I think it's time that we find a new beginning in this and moving forward step by step, because we know in province of B.C. that will certainly look at interprovin- British Columbia that we have what it takes to lead the cial trade, that will deal with internal trade — not the country. We know that in British Columbia we have the trading off or the jockeying for a new cabinet position. economy that is opening up to the Asia-Pacific.I t is why That's what's happening here today. That's what's hap- we are faring better through this recession than any- pening here. We should be talking about how we create where else. better relationships with our provincial friends. [1150] We hear: "Well, let's not talk about the HST." Well, HST has a very incremental linkage to how we trade. Tell that [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] to the Fernie small business guy who has to now charge 12 percent for selling a bicycle, or a restaurateur who It's also about recognizing that when there is a reces- lives in Sparwood and now has to charge 12 percent on sion and when things happen…. In any economy, there a meal while only 73 kilometres away, in Pincher Creek, are ebbs and flows in terms of what jobs are needed, Alberta, you can go buy your bike at the Wal-Mart or the where and when. What we need to do is to make sure Costco. Tell that to the merchant there. that people can find work when and where they need Or you know, Tim Hortons doughnuts. I can see them to, because keeping people employed is the fundamental all lining up on the other side, in Alberta, because it's way that we keep our economy strong, keep our families cheaper to get your Timbits on the other side. That's real strong and keep our social services strong. good trading, isn't it? You're really going to chase them I can't believe that we're hearing from the other side all away over to the other side of the Rocky Mountains. that we should make sure that only British Columbians There's no HST there. There's no provincial tax. The can work in British Columbia. I think that means that Timbit trail. no British Columbians can work outside of British At least Ontario is giving the exemption, to $4, to Columbia, and I think that's ridiculous. those who buy at Tim Hortons — under $4. But not You know, we also heard this morning one member these guys, not this organization across the way. from the opposition talk about how the HST — which I know time is expiring, and I want to talk to you I wasn't sure we were talking about, but anyways — will about, quickly, what it's going to do to my community — erode consumer confidence. In reality, consumer con- deregulation. We saw what happened with the B.C. Rail fidence in B.C. right now is 28.6 percent above the situation, with the derailments, when it moved over to Canadian average. Why? Why is that the case? Because the federal jurisdiction. You know, not one glove fits all. in British Columbia we know what it takes to have a They went ahead and sold it off. strong economy, we know what it's going to take to lead They thought they could run a railway in the same Canada's economy through the future, and we're mov- way they can in the rest of Canada. In B.C. the train's ing forward with those initiatives. quite a bit different. In B.C., you know, we have regula- tions relative to trucks and how we regulate that. G. Gentner: I take my place to address the motion as What does it all mean? Are we going to now see that delivered by the MLA for Coquitlam–Burke Mountain. LCVs — longer combined vehicles — are going to find Monday, April 12, 2010 British Columbia Debates 4103

a way on the Rocky Mountain doubles coming on this going to look after your locals as well. That's all part side because we've now deregulated? Are we going to and parcel. You're going to have some open processes, see more and more — or the lack of — proper regula- and that's definitely…. The member for Chilliwack, my tions of trucks that are now going to be following a new counterpart, said the same sort of thing. You're going to type or set of rules? look after that sort of thing. [1155] The other thing that I really want to touch on a little We have a whole different train on this side than the bit, and I'm going to change to it in a little bit, is: I want prairies. You think you're going to be able to sort of wash to go back to taxes, the taxes in 2001. Nobody's talked your hands and deregulate in such a way that there'll be too much about it, but our taxes were so high in 2001 nothing left. This is British Columbia. We have some that it was absolutely chasing businesses away from here standards that we want to hold to. by the droves. You know, we can't even look after the types of regula- Small business was 4.5 percent in 2001. It's 2.5 per- tions of those who are involved in the trucking industry cent now. It's going to be going down to zero. Those in my community. Their overall failure rate was 28 per- are the kinds of things that actually attract businesses. cent who couldn't even get through an enforcement That's what gets corporations back in your commun- blitz, a three-day situation. Now they're going to deregu- ities. That's what gets the mills and gets the lumber late it again, and we're going to find trucks are coming industry back on track. Those are the kinds of things through this province, larger trucks that follow the regu- that you have to do. You have to make it an attractive lation standards of Alberta. climate for your locals, for your corporations so that This is a different province, and yes, we've got to they can provide some jobs so that your locals can go work together. We've got to make sure internal trade to work. works. We also have to respect the fact that British In 2001, 35 percent higher in every tax bracket — that's Columbia has some very dear and important regula- what British Columbia was, even when you compare it tions. We'll do everything we can to ensure that that will to our first province to the east, Alberta. Today we're be encouraged. equal to or better than that in every category, and I have to think that that is a major, major component in getting P. Pimm: I wasn't sure if I was going to get an oppor- B.C.'s economy back on track. tunity to speak to this new west partnership or not. I Noting the hour, Mr. Speaker, I'll stop there. I think know I don't have very much time, so I'm going to cut it that's probably enough. back from what I had virtually planned. It's very interesting to listen to the opposition and to P. Pimm moved adjournment of debate. see how they would like to put the borders and the bar- riers on our province and to just deal within the province. Motion approved. I don't know how that can benefit anybody.I can tell you that in our area in the late 1990s businesses and corpora- Hon. P. Bell moved adjournment of the House. tions were moving out of British Columbia faster than you could count them, in our area especially. Motion approved. Now we actually have an opportunity to deal with this agreement, and it follows suit on TILMA. It actually Mr. Speaker: This House stands adjourned until 1:30 allows businesses to move back and forth between the this afternoon. provinces and allows mobility of employees to do the same thing. Certainly, along those same lines, you're The House adjourned at 11:59 a.m.

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