Funding for the Smithsonian Jazz Oral History Program NEA Jazz Master interview was provided by the National Endowment for the Arts. HUBERT LAWS NEA JAZZ MASTER (2011) Interviewee: Hubert Laws (November 10, 1939 - ) Interviewer: Anthony Brown with recording engineer Ken Kimery Date: March 4-5, 2011 Repository: Archives Center, National Museum of American History Description: Transcript, 134 pp. Brown: Today is March 4th, 2011. This is the Smithsonian NEA Jazz Masters oral history interview with Hubert Laws in his home in Los Angeles, California, conducted by Anthony Brown and Ken Kimery. Good afternoon, Hubert. How are you doing? Laws: I’m fine, man. Brown: The last time I saw you was at the NEA Jazz Masters awards in January. You provided the first musical number, a duet with Kenny Barron, playing Stella by Starlight. I have to say, that was the high point of the evening. It could have stopped after that. That was, oh, incredible. Laws: It’s kind of you to say that, because I felt very good about that collaboration with Kenny. It’s so interesting, because we were supposed to have had a rehearsal that morning. We met in this little room on the side and we ended up – I said, “You know what? Let’s do – let’s just play for a while, and then we’ll lead on into Stella.” I said, “We may do that, or I may do another tune.” He said okay. That’s what I love about professional guys like him. They’re so flexible. We didn’t know what we were going to play in the beginning. For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] Page | 1 Brown: It was definitely exploratory, and man – but I could tell, soon as you hit those first of Stella, and Kenny’s right there. As a matter of fact, as I mentioned off mic, was that the last interview that we did was with Ken – the last interview that I did for this program was with Kenny, and he said the exact same thing. Laws: Really! Brown: Exactly. Almost verbatim. Laws: Really! I love that spontaneity. And with people of that caliber, it makes it so much easier. I loved it too. I loved the way it grew. It blossomed like a flower. Kenny’s so humble. He hangs his head, but he contributes so much, because without him, it wouldn’t have worked. It couldn’t have gone too far. Brown: Kenny – well, I have a special relationship with Kenny, because I studied with him at Rutgers. So . Laws: Oh really? Brown: So Kenny for me looms very large. Laws: Oh yes, very large. Heavy, heavy, heavyweight. I felt so privileged, just to be in that environment with those guys, because – and I found myself very blessed to be in, throughout my career. Somehow or another, I weaseled in, got in there, and became a part. Then I look back. It’s like I remember Jack – what’s his name? – John McEnroe make this statement. He says, “The older I get, the better I used to be.” Brown: I’m not going to let the public be fooled by you, Mr. Laws. You bring so much to the table. That’s why you’re with them all, because it’s birds of a feather. Y’all are just – anyway, before I begin the formal interview, I just have to say that your music – because in the early ’70s, CTI was the soundtrack to my college days. I was just getting into jazz, like I mentioned earlier, with James Newton, as a kid in junior high school. But CTI and you – man, I’m telling you, that that was some of the brightest memories that I have, an association with that music and my experiences. Laws: Anthony, I don’t know if it’s too much of a sidetrack, but I must tell you how that whole relationship with that label came about. At the time I had already done records with Atlantic. Yeah, I’d done some records with Atlantic, with Chick [Corea] and Ron [Carter] and those guys. But I was doing that time a t.v. show with Billy Taylor’s group. He put this selected group of guys together. He had convinced the producers that they – we’re special. So that’s why he explained to us, we should not take off. In other words, don’t take off on this gig, because I’ve convinced these producers – it was “The David Frost Show,” the best-paying gig in the city at that time. I was playing – it wasn’t flute. I think I was playing saxophone in that band. Frank Wess was in there, and Jimmy Owens For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] Page | 2 on trumpet. I think Bobby Thomas was on drums, and Bob Cranshaw, he was on bass. Some other guys in there. But what happened was, I had to take off twice. The first time I took off, I had to go to the Assembly. Very important. It was a spiritual assembly. He was agreeable to doing it. He said, “Okay. You” – Billy’s a nice man, nice guy. The second time I got this call from Memphis, Tennessee, where Creed Taylor was down there with a rhythm section. I think he had that rhythm section mainly because of the success of a record that Herbie Mann had done, Memphis Underground. He wanted me to come down there to record with that rhythm section, because he had scheduled them to play, I think, with Stanley Turrentine and somebody else, and they didn’t show up. Maybe Hank Crawford. You know Hank. So he called me up. I don’t understand why I did that. I dropped a gig. I was making a lot of money on that. So was everybody else in the band. For some strange reason, I was convinced to go down there, with no real hope in advance or anything. CTI was not an established label at that time. But Creed had me come down there, and I recorded my first record with them, called Crying Song, the first record. As it turned out, that was one of the best decisions I ever made. If you could understand the residual effect – it continues to this day. There must have been some kind of almost divine guidance, because, career- wise, it was one of the best decisions. I look back. I even saw – at the NEA, I saw Jimmy Owens. He’s still functioning, but that band and that whole situation is almost forgotten, but CTI is still in the memory of a lot of people. See. So that was a strategic decision to make at that strategic time. Brown: You were truly blessed, Mr. Laws. That’s what I can say. Laws: Yeah, I am. Brown: Let’s talk about in the beginning. In the beginning of your life – if you could, for the record, state your full name, your place and date of birth. Laws: I’m Hubert Laws. Brown: No middle name? Laws: No middle name. Hubert Laws, Jr. I’m a junior. My dad’s the senior. I was born in Houston, Texas, November 10, 1939. Do you need me to tell anything about the siblings now, or what? Brown: We’ll get to that. I want to know about your parents. If you could talk about what your mother and father – where they originally came from, and their occupations. Laws: My mother and father – my mother was born, I think, in Houston or outside of Houston. Maybe Chenango. That name comes to mind, Chenango, Texas, which is right For additional information contact the Archives Center at 202.633.3270 or [email protected] Page | 3 outside of Houston. My dad was born in Burton, Texas, which is not too far west, somewhere near Prairie View, which is the college there. He basically was just a hard worker, a manual laborer. He retread tires and he also – he had two jobs. He retread tires from like 7 in the morning to about 12 or 1 in the afternoon. Then he had an hour off and he’d go to this parking garage. It was Fuller’s Garage in Houston. He’d work for another 8 hours or more, up until it closed at 12 midnight. That was his schedule for a good – I don’t know – 35 or 40 years. He did that. Now that, for me, was a role model. That’s why I felt, my dad could do that. I always kept that in mind. My dad can do that, hey man, I can practice my flute 8 hours at least. Really. That was an incentive for me. My mother was the – she was a seamstress, homemaker, and also a pianist with the local church choir, Baptist choir. That’s how I guess – we had a piano in the home as a result of that. My mother tells me when I was 5, I used to get up there on the piano stool and began – played my own melodies – I ended up – by ear, because I had no lessons at that time. Then she sent my sister Blanche and I to have piano lessons, but it was – the lady was very limited. So we really didn’t get that much of an education in terms of reading. I didn’t get that education. I didn’t get that education until later, when I went to elementary school and I ran into this teacher.