Parliamentary Debates (Hansard)
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Wednesday Volume 530 29 June 2011 No. 179 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Wednesday 29 June 2011 £5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 937 29 JUNE 2011 938 many commentators, including the First Minister, are House of Commons unsure of exactly what powers the Welsh Government would like to have. Wednesday 29 June 2011 As with the Calman process, it is right that we try to reach consensus on this and move forward. It is far too The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock important a matter to be rushed or dealt with in a cavalier fashion. PRAYERS Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): Very important though borrowing powers are, would the [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] right hon. Lady assure the House that the remit of the Calman-style commission will be far broader than matters financial, given the excellent work already carried out Oral Answers to Questions by the Holtham commission? Mrs Gillan: I am committed to establishing a process WALES for the Assembly that is similar to that set out by the Calman commission. I have made it clear that we intend The Secretary of State was asked— to review the financing arrangements for Welsh devolution. I must repeat, however, that I think that this matter is Devolution far too important to Wales, and far too important a subject matter, to be rushed or not to be discussed fully. 1. Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab): What recent I am seeing the First Minister on Monday to take discussions she has had with the First Minister on the forward our discussions and I do not want to pre-empt remit of a commission on devolution and funding for them by setting any parameters. Wales. [61862] Mr Llwyd: No doubt the right hon. Lady would not The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan): wish to pre-empt any decision, but in a co-operative The Government are committed to a Calman-like process spirit, may I suggest that matters administrative and for Wales and will be putting forward proposals. I have constitutional should be considered? I am thinking of discussed the issue with the First Minister, and will be the possibility of devolving police and justice powers to continuing to have discussions with relevant colleagues Wales, for which there is a huge amount of support and of course the First Minister. throughout Wales. On the vital issue of broadcasting, it is high time that Wales had control of its own broadcasting; Paul Murphy: The Secretary of State will know that S4C would not be in its current position if there were the Northern Ireland Executive can borrow money and such control. the Scottish Government will soon be able to borrow money, but the Welsh Government cannot. With the Mrs Gillan: The right hon. Gentleman is trying to lay cutback in capital spending on schools and hospitals, is out his own manifesto, and his party’s position with it not now time for the right hon. Lady to enter into clarity, but that is not how we want to take matters immediate negotiations with the Welsh Government forward. May I make it clear that I know how important and the First Minister so that the Welsh Government S4C is to the Welsh language and culture? We have can also borrow money? reached an arrangement on it, and I assure him that I will always look to the interests of S4C because I know Mrs Gillan: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that how important a part it is of Wales’s culture. question. He is effectively asking why Wales is the only home nation without borrowing powers. It is fair to say Electricity Projects that the new borrowing powers for Scottish Ministers, which are set out in the Scotland Bill, will not take 2. Mr Mark Williams (Ceredigion) (LD): What effect until 2015-16, which is in line with our commitment recent discussions she has had with the First Minister not to change the system until stabilisation of public on the devolution of planning decisions for electricity finances. May I make it clear that we are not ruling projects with a generating capacity greater than 50 borrowing powers for the Welsh Government in or out megawatts. [61863] at this stage. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): The recent (Mr David Jones): My right hon. Friend has regular Labour Government have already amply demonstrated discussions with the First Minister about issues that their enthusiasm for taxing and borrowing. Does my affect Wales, including energy. right hon. Friend think that it would be wise to allow the Welsh Assembly to follow that example? My right hon. Friend has received no formal requests from the First Minister on the specific issue of devolving Mrs Gillan: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that planning decisions for electricity projects with a generating question. [HON.MEMBERS: “No, you’re not”] Despite capacity greater than 50 megawatts. the laughter from the Opposition, I am grateful to him. However, I cannot be drawn on this, and as I answered Mr Williams: I thank the Minister for that response. straightforwardly, we are not ruling it in or out at this Perhaps this matter could be included in Monday’s stage. I want to have those discussions with the First discussions. Will he acknowledge the concern that has Minister and other colleagues for the simple reason that been expressed by the First Minister, people from all 939 Oral Answers29 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 940 parties and especially campaigners in mid-Wales against their constituency would be an ideal location for an large-scale wind turbine developments? They feel it enterprise zone. Indeed, I have already met some Members would be completely in line with the devolution settlement who have made such representations. to transfer this power, so that decisions about large I encourage my hon. Friend to make contact with the energy projects are made in Wales by Welsh Ministers. Minister for Business, Enterprise and Technology in the Welsh Assembly. We were all surprised and disappointed Mr Jones: There is considerable concern in north and that she is not yet able to agree to appear before the mid-Wales about large-scale energy developments, but I Welsh Affairs Committee. I encourage her to rethink must tell my hon. Friend that there are no plans to that decision and to work together with the Welsh devolve such competence to the Welsh Assembly Office in a spirit of co-operation, because that would be Government. The big problem in mid-Wales is not that in the interests of Welsh business. competence for energy consents resides in Westminster, but that the Assembly Government’s planning policy—in Several hon. Members rose— the form of technical advice note 8—has a strong presumption in favour of wind farm development in Mr Speaker: Order. I am rather surprised and certain areas. That is the difficulty and it lies with the disappointed by the slow progress today. We must speed Welsh Assembly Government to amend. up. Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): For successful energy Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Given the Secretary of projects to go ahead in Wales so that it can reach its State’s discussions about enterprise zones with the First potential, we need proper infrastructure. The First Minister Minister and other Welsh Assembly Ministers, does she and local government want the same deal for ports accept that whatever we do on the ground in Wales, and development as England has—a level playing field. This whatever stimulus the Welsh Assembly can provide, we is a reserved matter: will the Minister and Secretary of still need a proper fiscal stimulus from her colleagues in State stand up for Wales? the Cabinet here? What discussions has she had with her colleagues in the Treasury about ensuring that growth Mr Jones: As the hon. Gentleman knows full well, happens? Barnett consequentials were given to the Welsh Assembly Government and they have decided not to implement Mrs Gillan: The hon. Lady makes a very good point, them on port developments in Wales. I suggest that he and that is exactly why, following the Budget, there was has a strong word with the First Minister and pleads an increased provision for the Welsh Assembly Government with him to divert money to that cause. of £65 million. Just to correct any figures that have been bandied about, I have checked with the Treasury and Enterprise Zones £10 million of that £65 million was Barnett consequentials for enterprise zone expenditure, and £20 million was for 3. Guto Bebb (Aberconwy) (Con): What recent small business rate relief consequentials. I am sure that discussions she has had with the First Minister on the with £30 million the Welsh Assembly Government will establishment of enterprise zones in Wales; and if she be able to do something. will make a statement. [61864] Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): Since The Secretary of State for Wales (Mrs Cheryl Gillan): the sad demise of the Development Board for Rural I had initial discussions with the First Minister on the Wales, there has been virtually no support for manufacturing day of the Budget, following the announcement of the in mid-Wales.