Lok Sabha Debates

Second Serles Vol, XIX - No. 16 Monday, September 1, 1958

LOK SABHA DEBATES

(Fifth Session)

.-r

(Vol. XIX contains Nos. 11-20)

LOK SABHA SECRETARIAT NEW DELHI CONTENTS

Co lu m n s Oral Answers to Questions— Starred* Questions Nos, 750 to 752, 754, 756, 757, 759, 760, 762, 764, 765, 767, 768, 770, 772, 776 to 779, 781 and 782 • 3837~77 Written Answers to Questions— Starred Questions Nos. 749, 753, 755, 758. 761, 766, 769, 771, 773 ^ 775> 780, 783, 784 to 786 and $ 8 to 792 * « 3877— 87 Unstarred Questions Nos. 1207 to 1269 .... 3888— 39*8 Motions for Adjournment— 1. Lay-off of workers in Messrs. Burn & Co. ; and . 3927— 31 2. Alleged break-down of constitutional machinery in Pondicherry 3931— 36 Papers laid on the Table— ...... 3937 Amendments to Regulations for Elections to Committees— Laid on the Table ...... 3937 President’s Assent to Bills— 1. Appropriation (Railways) No. 3 Bill ; and . . . 3937-38 2. Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Sites and Remains Bill 3937-38 Delhi Rent Control Bill— In trodu ced ...... 3938 Estate Duty (Amendment) Bill— Clauses 3 to i i , 14 to 20,22 to 30, 12 ,2 1 and 1 3938— 4003 Pandit Thakur Das B h a r g a v a ...... 3939-42, 3945, 3950- 59, 3 9 6 3 -6 9 , 3986-87 Dr. B. Gopala Reddi • 394^-43, 3972-74, 3988— 90 Shri L. Achaw Singh 3944-3988 Shri Kami Singhji • 3947-48 Shri Naushir Bharucha 3950 Shri Mulchand Dube . 3 9 6 9 - 7 1 Shri Supakar .3980-84. 3990 Shri M. R. Masani . 3993-98 Shri V. P. Nayar 3999-4002 Motion to pass (as amended) 4003 Dr. B. Gopala Reddi 4003 ♦The sign + marked above a name indicate® that the question wa» actually asked on the floor o f the House by that Member.

[See cover page 3 also CONTENTS—conUL Colum ns Banaras Hindu University (Amendment) Bill— Motion to consider as reported by Select Committee . . 4004—63 Dr. K. L. Shrimali ...... 4°°4—*7 Shri Asoka M e h t a ...... 4OJ9—*5 Shri Prabhat K a r ...... 4025—32 Swami Ramananda Tirtha ...... 4°32—35 Dr. Sushila Nayar ...... 4035—40 Shri Khadilkar ...... 4°4°—4® Shri R a n g a ...... 4046—52 Shri Siva Raj ...... 4052—55 Shrimati Uma N e h r u ...... 4055—59 Shri Raghunath Singh ...... 4^59—63 Half-an hour Discussion re Import Licences for Newsprint and Prices of Paper ...... 4064—80 Shri V. P. Nayar ..... 4064—68 Shri Tangamani ...... 4069-70 Shri Manubhai S h a h ...... 4070—80 Daily Digest...... 4081—86 LOK SABHA DEBATES

3837 3838

L O K SABH A Shri Shree Narayan Das: May I know whether there has been any Monday. 1st September, 1958. change in the attitude taken up by the South Viet Nam Government with The Lok Sabha met at eleven of the regard to its responsibility to give Clock. effect to the provisions of the agree ment reached there"' [Mr. S p e a k e r in the Chairj The Prime Minister and Minister of External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): I do not think there has been ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS any major change, minor deviations and, sometimes, expression of opinion might take place Geneva Agreement

|" Shri Shree Narayan Das: Integrated Heavy Machine Building *751. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Plant ^Sardar Iqbal Singh: f Shri Ram Krishan: Will the Prime Minister bo pleased I Sardar Iqbal Singh: to state: 751. ^ Shrimati Ha Palchoudhuri: (a) whether any l'resh efforts have | Dr. Ram Subhag Singh*. been made by the Co-Chairmen of ( Shri Sanganna: Geneva Conference towards the full Will the Minister of Commerce and implementation of the Geneva Agree Industry be pleased to refer to the ment; and leply given to Starred Question No. 169 (b) if so, with whal results? on the 14th February, 1958 and state the progress made with regard to the The Parliamentary Secretary to the setting up of an Integrated Heavy Minister of External Affairs (Shri Machine Building Plant with the aid Sadath Ali Khan): (a) The Govern of the U.SS.R 7 ment of India are not aware of any specific efforts recently made by the The Minister of Industry (Shri Co-Chainnen of the Geneva Confer Manubhai Shah): The Memorandum ence to expedite the full implementa of Instructions and the major part of tion of the Geneva Agreement. the initial data required for the pre paration of the detailed project report (b) Does not arise, have been made available to Messrs. Shri Shree Narayan Das: May I Technoexport of the U.S.SR. know whether any proposal is being Shri Ram Krishan: May I know the considered by the Co-Chairmen of the name of the site chosen" Geneva Conference to convene another Geneva Conference with a view to give Shri Manubhai Shah: Near Hatia effect to the agreement that was village in Ranchi. reached earlier? Shri Ram Krishan: May I know the Shri Sadath Ali Khan: No, Sir. nature of aid to be given by U.S S.R ? 153 LSD— 1 Oral Answers 3 8 3 9 O rol Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 19*8

Shri Manubhai Shah: The entire The Minister of Commerce (Shri thing is being established by the Kanungo): Ca) Yes, Sir. Central Government. (b) The misuse of non-transferable Shri Ramanathan Chettiar: May 1 specific delivery contracts in cotton know what will be the cost of the has been reduced in Greater Bombay scheme, and to what extent the to a great extent by effective preven U.S.S.R. Government is going to help tion of transference of such contracts. us? Shri V. P. Nayar: Could I have an Shri Manubhai Shah: The present idea of total volume of business trans cost is expected to be Rs. 45 crores. acted under this non-transferable Out of the 500 million rouble aid, specific delivery contracts in respect about 150 million rouble aid will be of cotton in Bombay’ utilised for importing machinery for Shri Kanungo: The by-laws control this plant ling this type of transaction under the Act were finalised by the East India Shri Ranga: May I know in how many years it is expected to be com Cotton Association in July. There fore, I have not got the figures xn pleted? respect of transactions which have Shri Manubhai Shah: About Aj. been allowed or disallowed. years, if everything goes according to schedule. Shri V. P. Nayar: My question was . . Shri Jaipal Singh: With a view to Mr. Speaker: He wants to know the ensure harmonisation of relationship total volume. at Hatia and all round it. would the Shri V. P. Nayar: 1 want to have Minister see to it that tor this new only a rough estimate. If we were to line that is being constructed—the have some modification of the law, permanent wav—there is notification Government must certainly have an first and land acquisition next instead idea of the possibility of the quantum of the present process whereby lands of mischief which is possible I want are being taken away without acquisi to know whether Government have tion and compensation? They are not any idea of the total volume of con objecting to it, but what is happening tracts covered by this non-transferable is that you are creating friction and specific delivery contracts tension. Shri Manubhai Shah: All due pro Mr. Speaker: He wants to have an cess of law will be resorted to estimate. Shri Kanungo: We cannot have an Shri Jaipal Singh: That is not being estimate, because it was prohibited by done now law till it was regulated under the by-law. Forward Trading Shri V. P. Nayar: The answer given (752. Shri V. P. Nayar: Will the is that misuse is now being prevented Minister of Commerce and Industry by notification of the law. How docs be pleased to state: the hon. Minister say that? (a) whether Government have Mr. Speaker: It was only in July studied the effects of bringing non- that the bye-laws were finalised. The transferable specific delivery contracts Minister is not able to give the figures, under the regulatory provision of the because these were finalised only a Forward Contracts Regulation Act in month ago Greater Bombay; and Shri V. P. Nayar: How can we have (b) how far has this measure pre some new laws without having a back vented the abuses in the Cotton ground as to what possibility of mis Market? chief is there? 3841 Oral Aiwtocrs 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Oral Answers 3842

Shri K u tu ifo: It is not a new law. Shri Ram Krtehan: May I know by The law is already there. It is only a what time this matter will be finalis question of application of the provi ed? sions of the bye-laws. Shri Anil K. Chanda: According to Shri V. P. Nayar: But he must have present arrangements, the land leased the background...... out is to be resumed by Government Mr. Speaker: Order, order Hon. after 30th June, 1959. There is a lot Member will continue to be a Member of time for us to finalise our plans. of this House for four more years. Lei him wait for sometime more. Shri Ansar Harvani: May I know whether there is any proposal to Shri Heda: Sir, the exact amount of provide alternative land to the Delhi misuse or contracts taking place may Race Course Club? not be known because they are not entered m the books. Even then, Shri Anil K Chanda: No, Sir. Government would have their own information to find out what approxi Shri Ranga: May I know how much mately is the quantum of business that land is involved in this matter? is taking place under this type of rontract. Shri Anil K Chanda: About 85 acres Shri Kanungo: The fact that misuse was done of this type of contract was brought to the notice of the Forward v f h w ysfrr: 4 t r j? Market Commission; therefore, they jpfftr t t - asked it to be regulated by the East far^TT 3TT-T ^TT f. ' India Cotton Association The volume of illegal transactions cannot be ascertained Shri Anil K. Chanda: No, we have not decided I have already said that Shri V. P. Nayar: The 'ion. Minister in my answer. says that he is not able to give the figures Could I know from him what is the main modus opprondi in this Zirconium Factory kind of misuse? -i Shri Kanungo: Well, there are *756 r shri v p Nay»r: several. 1 would not like to disclose ' ^Shri Vasudevan Nair: 1hem here Will the Prime Minister be pleased to refer to the reply given to Starred Delhi Race Course Question No 1850 on the 25th April, 1958 and state 4 f Shri Ram Krishan: (a) whether the Government of I^Sardar Iqbal Singh: India have since taken any decision on the setting up of the proposed Will the Minister of Works, Housing Zirconium factory; and Supply be pleased to refer to the reply given to Starred Question No. 397 (b> if so, its location; on the 22nd November, 1957 and state (<•) the total expenditure envisaged; details of the proposal regarding using and the land of the Delhi Race Course id) the employment p o t e n t i a l of the Club for some other public purposes? Plant? The Deputy Minister of Works, Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K. The Prime Minister and Minister of Chanda): No proposal has yet been External Affairs (Shri Jawahartel formulated. Nehru): (a) No decision has yet been 3843 G™ 1 Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Oral Answer* 3844

taken to set up a plant for producing Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Zircon is a Zirconium. mineral: from this zirconium is ex tracted This mineral, zircon, also has tb) to (d). Do not arise. hafnium in close association with It, Shri V. P. Nayar: It appeared to us, and this hafnium, as I have said, may from the annual report of the Atomic behave as a poisonous substance. On© Energy Commission placed on the 'has to extract it. As I said, the most Table of the House, that Government suitable place for the pilot plant is had taken a decision to set up a zir where other facilities are available— conium factory, and I thought the it is not a matter of availability of Prime Minister’s reply to the debate the mineral alone—is Trombay. All on Atomic Energy strengthened that the facilities are really available in conclusion. I want to know whether India mostly at Trombay. H is m contemplation Shri V. P. Nayar: I would just like to know whether one of the reasons Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: The posi for postponing the decision to set up tion is that while zirconium has certain a zirconium factory is the non very outstanding characteristics for availability of foreign exchange. use as a structural and canning mate Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: As I said, rial in nuclear reactors and, further, the factory cannot be put up till a we have considerable supplies of pilot plant has functioned and given zircon, from which zirconium is results I have not heard of foreign derived, in Travancore, this mineral, exchange coming in the way of the zircon, contains also another thine pilot plant called hafnium which is a poison, and these two have to be separated What V TfW % M TOT ^?5TT is proposed at present is to put up a pilot plant to see how we can separate + these and produce just a few tons If that experiment is successful, then the L«f( HW 3"5T* : next stage will be considered as to whether to put up a bigger plant 01 'profa tot jf’fV not JTS «TTR f ’TT far

Shri V. P. Nayar: May I know (*r) q-f? t whether Government have decided about the location of the pilot plant’ * f "tfr faRTRT STTfa- k ^ £ fa; t o «r^5f % Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I do not tr^; v K i’l TOT fSTOT : know about any decision, but it is likely to be where the big atomic ( ^ ) sr, ?ft t o energy complex is—at Trombay— j n 3ffT STT5JT £ s V because the people are there who will run it (it )3 7 * :^ TfTJftSRT TT fVTOT s*PT SPIT ’ Shri Ranga: 1 do not know whether I can find any description of these things in any dictionary May we have JTfWT) ( * ) 3ft j?T I some enlightenment about this parti cular material? Is it an element or (*r) sr^ ^ ^ srtprq- is it a sort of ore’ We do not know *TFT ^ *TTO ?T 5rr^»TT I Is it absolutely necessary that the pilot plant has got to be started only in (*0 M ? .* 00 ^ I the place where the material is to be Vf TOW ffo rro found? Can it not be had at Trombay ^T«ff 'FT *1? t far # ?r*ft where we have the Atomic Energy Commission? 3845 O ral Answers \ SEPTEMBER' L956 Oral Answers

*fTo «f>-o 33^0 £ t° fit fT»fr 1 m 7 ?fr A ? f a m ?T5T«fr*r ^ *rfrm f 1 FF'TRvtv-vrd' *nf) («* Service Records front Pakistan *fT*W 9W ) : ??*r #' efV ^TrT ?rrf t i srar A x-q^iT *ft *tt + # m r ft %>V spffa *ft. ;ft strrf f a ^ *7S» f^ h ri Subodh Hansda: ' ]_ Shri S. C. Samanta: m ^ w n ^ rfe ^ s*far?r ^r*fr on Will the Prime Minister be pleased I A to state: "H^T apt ?T»TT I (a) whether the service records of all Central Government employees «fi *nw ffH.ftr ^rr # TTFf v ho were serving in Pakistan before *r*JT I ?nft fft Tn Sadath Ali Khan): (a) No, Sir •f^TT *Tfaf^T £, *5fa^T i m *prpT f tb) Under an agreement reached 37T % ^R- JTHf^FT f far with the Government of Pakistan in July, 1955, lists showing particulars of **R*T % ;fT% 7T f T f C JT^rfa?: all Central Government servants, TTrgni ^~t i whose service records wore due from Pakistan, have been compiled and sent «Tt H f t ° k us in the end of December, 1957, a list of 2,583 persons whose service %ft? fe rr & sf ^rm fro fro n;0 jfrHrr, records were said to be due from us *fto

Shri Sadath All Khaa: There is no objection, but delays oocur. * fa f « m * 4 - Shri P. R. Patel: May I know whe ’srrftsf srcfosr fa ;r r 'r r fo ^ R n ther there are Sind cases wherein employees have not received their f 5T$r wr o t arc pension since partition—-those who # JTff *rr tw t m sst* srre f w r have come from Karachi and stay in India? f^rry * fa*r f o s fiwrsrr Shri Sadath Ali Khan: In the W 3 ? absence of service records Government a w frrom * 5* : «rafr *nrr employees on our side are being accorded all the benefits due to them fa s m ^

Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: This India also regarded as an under memorandum which is supplied to us developed country? says, “ 10th June, 1957” . That is why Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I am .sorry I asked the question. I could not grasp the question. Mr. Speaker: We have no control' Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member over the Secretary-General. wants to know if India is also one Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: There of the under-developed countries. is no question of control. I am asking whether any progress has been made Shri Sinhasan Singh: It is written in since then. It is more than 15 months Mr. Appleby’s report that India is one now. I have not been able to under of the 12 best administered countries. stand what it is. In view of this, is India considered as an under-developed country? Mr. Speaker: By the summer of 1958, the Secretary-General has pro Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: The hon. mised to place the report. Is that so? Member is entering into the adminis trative region. As a matter of fact, Shri Sadath Ali Khan: Yes. India has supplied a fairly large num Mr. Speaker: Summer is not yet ber of experts, administrative, educa over, I think. tional, scientific, irrigational, etc. to various countries in Asia and Africa. Shri Hem Barua: May 1 know what Nevertheless, “under-developed” is a are the under-developod countries that comparative term; it is under-deve- the Secretary-General of the U.N.O. loped compared to the more developed had in mind when formulating such countries a proposal for an International Administrative Service, and what is Shri Kasliwal: May I know whether the reaction of the under-developed as a result of this, the Government countries to the proposal of the of India will be called upon to make Secretary-General’ any additional contribution to the U.N O ? The Prime Minister and Minister of External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Contribu Nehru): The whole subject is rather tion’ 111 a fluid '.tale Obviously, if the Mr. Speaker: Contribution to the Service is formed, it can be an ade expenditure of the United Nations. quate Service only if it is spread out over various countries. If it is confined to a few countries, it will hardly be Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: That ques called international: 1 suppose many tion would be an entirely separate of the under-developed countries question, which is not connected with would not particularly favour that this. If the United Nations expendi idea. ture goes up and up, as it tends to do, then the question arises as to who Shri Hem Barua: The answer of thf f-hould pay for it: whether it should under-developed countries? be shared by all or whether some country should pay a greater share Mr. Speaker: Details are not known than others. That question comes up until the report is given. independently; it has nothing to do Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I cannot with this. answer on behalf of other countries as to what answer they have given. Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: May I know whether it is the intention of Shri Sinhasan Singh: In view of the this country to participate in this report made by Mr. Appleby who has scheme because we need some adminis observed that India is one of the best trative ofliceis for this country or is administered countries in the world, is it only to assist the international pool? 3851 Oral Answ ers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 O ral AntUfers 385a

Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: We require for a period of three, four or iive no administrative officer from any years? other country. We hope very soon we will not require any considerable Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I do not number ol technical officers either. As know. May I say that while it is very a matter of fact, by and large, we desirable, I think, to have a person have a fair supply of these people. with an international service back Our difficulty sometimes arises because ground to serve in other countries, of the large demands made upon us rather than a national background, on to supply administrative officers to the other hand, people accredited to other countries One country, Africa, the United Nations to do such func asked us suddenly for 200 officers of tions have become so terribly expen various types. That is a burden. So sive that it is difficult to have them. far as I know, this scheme is in a fluid state and the idea is to develop an international service with an inter Rayon Pulp Factory in Kerala national outlook not confined to a *762. Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri: nation, so that gradually, we may Will the Minister of Commerce and have a real international service. Industry be pleased to refer to the Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: The reply given to Unstarred Question hofc. Prime Minister stated that this No 3439 on the 7th May, 1958 and service is being constituted to develop state: an international outlook But if we (a) whether it is a fact that M/s. read through this memorandum, we Gwalior Rayon Silk Manufacturing find that it is not for that purpose (Weaving) Company Limited and the As a matter of fact, Indonesia made a Government of Kerala have requested request for the constitution of such a the Central Government to act as an service In the various reports of the arbitrator in case of any dispute, U.N.O., it was mentioned that proper question or difference between them administrative services were not avail in connection with the proposed Wood able in certain countries which stood Pulp (Rayon Grade) Factory at Nil- in the wav of the development of those ambur/Beypore, District Malabar countries. May I know if that is not (Kerala); the purpose? (b) if so. whether Government have Mr. Speaker: The hon Minister says agreed to their request; and this is also a purpose. Both are pur poses There is no harm in that. (c) whether a copy of the agreement between the Kerala State Government Shri Hem Barua: What is the re and the said party will be placed on action of the Government to the the Table? counter-proposal made by Mr. Lester Pearson as against the proposal made The Minister of Industry (Shri by the Secretary-General, about an Manubhai Shah): (a) and (b). Yes, international professional and techni Sir. cal service m place of an international (c) A copy of the Agreement is laid administrative service? on the Table of the House. [See Ap Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I am sorry pendix III, annexure No. 111.] I have no precise knowledge of that proposal and I cannot answer that Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri: May question. I know if Government were associated at any stage with the negotiation bet Shri Ranga: If and when this service ween Messrs. Birla Brothers who comes to be constituted and when control the Gwalior Company and the there are certain under-developed Kerala Government and if the Central countries, are they to be sent there Government have approved some part for a period of 20 or 30 years or only of the agreement? O ral Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1968 Oral Armuers 3854

Shri Manubhai Shah: This is a arises, it will be always up to the matter which is completely within the Central Government either to use its competence and jurisdiction of the good offices or to exercise such Xerala Government. powers as are vested in it by statutes and protect those rights. Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri: So far as the arbitration part was con Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri: Did cerned, before giving the consent to the Government ascertain the views act as arbitrator, did the Government of the Union Labour Ministry regard of India approve of the terms of the ing the agreement, m view of the fact agreement? that a good part of the agreement it. related to industrial relations and also Shri Manubhai Shah: We were only find out to what extent they conflict asked to say whether we will be ready with the existing labour policy of the to arbitrate To that extent, our con Government of India? sent was given. Shri Manubhai Shah: I have already Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri: May indicated it in my earlier answer This 1 know whethei the necessary permis is only another way of asking the sion under the Industries (Develop same question So far as the terms ment and Regulation) Act has already and conditions of the agreement are been accorded to thi*- company and concerned, it is the exclusive concern the necessary foreign exchangf has of the Kerala Government and the been provided for9 party w’hich has entered into the agreement Shri Manubhai Shah: Yes, Sir Under that Act, the proposal has been Mr. Speaker: When the conflict approved and a li/ence for Rs 2 5 arises, it will be settled either by the crores tor the foreign exchange part courts or somebody else of the machinery has been already granted Evacuee Property in Delhi Shri Hem Barua: Fiom the state + ment I find that borrus, will not be *764 S shri R*dha Raman: related to the Company's profits, but Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: will be related to and paid on efficiency and productivity and that too if the Will the Minister of Rehabilitation company considers it necessary May and Minority Affairs be pleased to I know why the Government has state allowed such an agreement to be (a) whether Government are aware entered into which writes off all the that most of the properties under the progressive legislation so far passed 111 control of the Custodian in Delhi are this House0 m a poor condition and a number of houses collapse aftei rains; Shri Manubhai Shah: A.s I have already indicated, as far as the terms (b) the number of such houses which of the agreement and conditions are collapsed during the heavy rains in concerned, l't is within the competence Delhi in July, 1958; and jurisdiction of the State Govern ment But I may draw the attention (c) the number of persons who lost of the hon Member to the fact that their lives on account of such collapses, under the free and democratic Consti and tution of India, every citizen has been (d) the steps taken by Government accorded certain fundamental rights to improve the condition of the and the Central Government is charged houses7 under the Constitution with the duty of protecting the legitimate enjoyment The Minister of Rehabilitation and of such rights, if there is any violation Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand partially or wholly. If any such case Khanna): (a) to (d). A statement is 3 $55 Oral Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1968 O ral Answers 3856

laid on the Table of the House. [See ’f a f t r m ssrrc $ — wt jr*r Appendix III, annexure No. 112.] ^?T rr^pr ^ | Vt Shri Radha Raman: May I know f»r^T4 9FT rTTfa ^TH * JTFT *J«RH whether' the Government have pre pared any estimate in respect of such JT I houses which are in a dangerous con Dr. Sushila Nayar: There are many dition and if so, what is that esti houses that are in a dangerous con mate? dition, but the residents find it diffi Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: We cult to get alternative accommodation, have not prepared any estimate. so that they are continuing to take- But when this unfortunate tragedy the risk of living in those houses occurred, the Prime Minister called a Would the hon Minister give us some meeting of the various important in indication as to what arrangements terests represented in Delhi and two there are for alternate accommoda high-powered committees were set up, tion? one under the Mayor and the other Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: The under the Minister of Works, Housing provision of alternative accommo and Supply. These commitees are dation does not arise here All those looking into this question. Whenever evacuee houses which are available, a case of a dangerous house comes up, I mean those that are vacant, we we have given a certain authority to have intimated to the Corporation. the Corporation to have the house We tell them "These are the houses demolished or repaired. available and such and such displac ed persons are entitled to allotment.” *T?T ^{Tf jTT which is under the custody of the Custodian of Evacuee Property? # # w t m q- - s r r f f. ctt'* The facts of the case mentioned there ?r^=r stjtwt s f t f e ^ r the position absolutelv clear. There is no callousness on our part. foTT IPTT #, ^ vft A 1 T F R T ^ T f^ T T ‘•'TT ’ Shri Jadhav: May I know whether srsi it is a fact that rent arears come to about Rs. 50 lakhs now? If so, what *PFcTT f r fe r r f afrt jftfo* fanT 5RTT steps are being taken to make re £ i tf^mr ^ fw % coveries? ^ JTS Hrtl

Rehabilitation of Displaced Persons at the disposal of the Uxuou Miautgjr in Orissa of Rehabilitation for rehabilitation el displaced persons in Orissa7 *765. Shri Panigrahi: Will the Minis ter of Rehabilitation and Minority The Minister of Rehabilitation and Affairs be pleased to state Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand (a) whether the displaced persons Khanna): The area of land will be living m the camp at Charbatia have correlated to the number of families been rehabilitated in Onssa, and that we wish to rehabilitate My hon friend has already replied that a num (b) if so, the land made available ber of families have already been to them for this purpose’ settled on land The number of families who are yet to be settled on The Deputy Minister of Rehabilita land is about 197 or about 200 For tion (Shri P. S. Naskar). (a) and (b) them we need about 1,000 acies Every 669 families consisting of 2,710 dis effort is being made to locate that land placed persons of Charbatia Camp have so far been rehabilitated in Shri Panigrahi Mv question was Orissa on an area of about 3,500 acies different

Shri Panigrahi: May I know whether Mr Speaker. Th( hon Member Government have formulated any wants to know in advance how much scheme for providing technical train land will be offered by the State The ing to the refugees near about hon Mimstei says that the question Charbatia camp’ If so what are the *o what extent land has been made details of the scheme for the training available will arise when the number of poisons'' of families to be rehabilitated hac been decided Shri P. S. Naskar We have sane tioned out training seherm neai about Shri Panigrahi A request was made Charbatia eamp I have not got the dt the Eastern Zonal Council meeting details of the scheme with me here to the different State Governments bv It is for the tiaining of young men 'he Union Minister of Rehabilitation on different techmc.il and piofessional to express their opinion to what extent trades thci can allow land for resttlement of refugees m different States I w’ould Shri Panigrahi What i«, the monev like to know what was the offer made inctioned for that’ bs the State Government of Onssa

Shri P. S. Naskar' 1 do not have the Shn Mehr Chand Khanna: A big exact details part of the offei made by them was •he land for Dandakaranya Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhun. May 1 know the total population of Shn Dasaratha Deb What is the Charbatia camp’ Will all of them be amount of land that is being given to rehabilitated in Onssn or outside each family when it is resettled’ Onssa also’ Shn Mehr Chand Khanna Roughly Shri P. S. Naskar. Theie are about 4 5 acres 456 families living m the camp Out of these 197 families are agncultuiists Belonia and Sabreom in Tripura and the rest are non-agriculturists The agriculturists will be rehabilitated *767. Shn Dasaratha Deb: Will the Minister of Rehabilitation and Minority on land As regards the non-agncul- turists, several schemes are under con Affairs be pleased to state sideration of the State Government (a) the number of huts which Shri Panigrahi: May I know the collapsed during the gale on the 18th total amount of land which the State May, 1958 m the sub-divisions of Government has been willing to place Belonia and Sabroom in Tripura, 38 59 Oral Answ ers 1 SEPTEMBER 1988 Oral Answer*

(b) whether'the affected persons are Shri Subodh Hansda: May I know ■ttiCMrtly displaced persons and tribal where these museums will be con people; and structed? (c) what financial aid has been given Shri Abid Ali: Calcutta, Kanpur to the affected displaced persons? and Coimbatore. The deputy Minister of Rehabilita Shri Subodh Hansda: What is the tion (Shri P. S. Naskar): (a) 3,924 amount set apart for recurring and huts. non-recurring expenditure for each museum’ (b) Out of the 2,438 families affect ed, 591, were displaced persons Shri Abid Ali: About Rs 30 lakhs non-recurring and about Rs 2 lakhs (c) Immediate relief was provided recurring. to the displaced persons by giving them work on the development projects in Shri Tangamani: May I know when the area. Proposals for the grant of the museum that is going to be set further relief are under the considera up in Coimbatore will be completed? tion of the Tripura Administration Shri Abid Ali: By the end of 1960. Shri Dasaratha Deb: May I know the amount that is given as relief for ifw ifr # these families’ «n=HT*TT £ % ;r>Tt ?nri w t , The Minister of Rehabilitation and Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand rqfjpm ^rn+rf] Khanna): The question of giving any ffnr wrnft n ^rf'FT forcr 3jt r » cash does not arise at present. As my hon. colleague just now stated, we are t I Tr i#TT TRT ‘ T ” 5TTTOT ^ f I .giving them relief work As far as 5TPRT TT>7- vft RTWT the question of giving relief to indivi % STTT IT ^frt fa^TT n^T t JTT f% dual persons is concerned, the mattei is under the consideration of the 3 7T rvTTf^r ' Tripura Administration

Regional Museums V T^rrX | tfir

tip- IT w % f a /S h r i Subodh Hansda: Shri S. C. Samanta: ^ % wj ^ ^ i ^ T ^ Will the Minister of Labour and fT J T f ^ T T jTT *T%*TT I Employment be pleased to state- Naga Raid on Manipur (a) whether it is a fact that three r Regional Museums of Industries. f Shri Hem Barua: Safety, Health and Welfare would t^Sardar Iqbal Singh: be constructed at three different Will the Prime Minister be pleased places, to state (b) if so, whether the construction of the buildings for these museums (a) whether it is a fact that activi has started; and ties of hostile Nagas have been inten sified in Pughoboto and Sataka ranges (c) the time by which the con in the Sema area in Mokokchung sub struction is likely to be completed’ division as also in the adjoining State The Deputy Minister of Labour of Manipur;

(c) the action taken by the Govern Naga hostiles. It is also seen from the ment in the matter? report that our officers are undertak ing extensive and intensive tours in The Parliamentary Secretary to the these areas. May I know whether Minister of External Affairs (Shri these official tours and these leaders Sadath All Khan): (a) There have of the Naga People’s Convention have been no reports on intensification of been able to secure any information hostile activities in Pughoboto and about the present and future plans Sataka ranges. Neither there has been and programmes of the Naga hostiles any appreciable increase in the activi a.s also information relating to the ties of hostile Nagas in Manipur State. whereabouts of their leader Phizo?

(b) The Naga People’s Convention Shri Sadath Ali Khan: I cannot say leaders at the last Ungma meeting all that. But, as a result of these appointed a Liaison Committee con tours, as the hon. Member will be sisting of representatives of various aware, a large number of people have- tribes to contact the underground given up hostilities. leaders of their respective tribes and areas and to ascertain their views a.s Shri Hem Barua: That is not my well as to explain the policy of the question. My question is this. From Government. This Committee has been the statement it is seen that the leaders contacting underground leaders to of the Naga People’s Convention are find out an agreed solution to bring to contacting the underground leaders of an end the present trouble by peace Naga hostiles. It is also seen from ful means. They have also persuaded the report that our officers are under the underground people to give up taking extensive and intensive tours violent activities and come overground in those areas. May I know whether to lead peaceful life by taking advan the tours of these officers, as also the tage of general amnesty offer and to attempts on the part of the Naga enjoy the benefit of development leaders, have yielded any results as schemes and other facilities granted to the information about the future by the Government. and present plans and programmes of the hostiles, as also information about (c) With the advent of the new the whereabouts of Phizo? Administration, the Civil Administra tion has been increasingly asserting The Prime Minister and Minister of its influence over the people by officers External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal touring intensively and extensively, Nehru): 1 shall endeavour to give a contacting the people and explaining simple reply to a complicated ques the policy of the Government. Facili tion. I will take the last part first. ties are being provided for the proper So far as our information goes, Phizo rehabilitation of all those who agree resides at present in Dacca. to give up violence and co-operate with the Government in the develop An Hon. Member: Dacca? ment plans. Appropriate help is also Shri Hem Barua: What about Phizo? being given in the form of food relief, supply of agricultural seeds and tools, Has he succeeded in setting up his Naga Independent Government in expansion of educational and medical Dacca and how far has he been able facilities. In areas which have been to contact the foreign embassies there cleared of hostiles, tribal Councils to take up the cause of the Naga have been formed and are taking over Independent State, which is one of his responsibility with the aid of the main objectives in running to Dacca? Administration. Shri Hem Barna: From the state Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: There is no ment it is seen that the leaders of the such thing as a Government establish Naga People’s Convention are con ed by Mr. Phizo, except on paper, tacting the underground leaders of the which may issue circulars and those .3863 O o l Answers l SEPTEMBER iMft Oral Answers 3864 circulars may even reach hon. Mem bers here. qrso m e*

&n Hon. Member: They have. • w r

Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: As for his TtJimr « n f, % attempts to get in touch with foreign mrjfvTT 5p r qwrr % ^ttt embassies, I have no doubt that he has % ****** # jts % made attempts but I do not think that he has met with much success. But tt?to rr*r<> snre sometimes it is possible that scmie jft HIM'lf % f^T TT3TT *IMI countries may show him some favour •«r % fa-STfaT* TPTfH .It would not be proper for me to mention names here, but i>o far as I know nothing has come of it. Mr. Phizo has relied '.very greatly on pro ■'TM T>3PITT HOT iftlRT mises for the future, t c , the United * («f> 5To m o fan*) : Nations will come in or somebody will ? fen & 7t come in. There is no chance what ever of this matter being brought up vrrM % m m ij ^^rrfipT »t P. 1 m the United Nations or anything An Hon. Member: In English also. 'happening there That is the position Shri L. N. Mishra: The Tribunal has :as far as I know since given its award which has been published in the Gazette of India. Dr. Ram Snbtaag Singh: May I know whether the agreement which wa> Vi SJM ’sffaJT. WT recently negotiated in Karachi regard ing the exchange of prisoners will also k -t t r n a?, m i ft fa 'Tr^ be brought to apply on Mr Phizo who %

'Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: First of all, t * % *r ift sti7^ no agreement has thus far been made f? s V 7^r ^ in Karachi. Talks are taking place in Karachi We shall only know the Tiro decision after the talks are over Ho ^To fa * ifT 5T5T% 'Secondly, that has absolutely nothing to do with the Nagas. In Karachi, i *rorr:r t x r tnfa- probably the subject under discussion T ^ : =5FT Tjft f. 1 was the people taken in border raids —people this way or that way and not sff HfWTJTH spri ir*ft *T5f^rn others. n t P, fa th* % tk- Shri Hem Barua: May I know if % srnt ^ h •our Government have advised our 'T^^FT TM *TTT*T V fft 7JT 7TT ?T»rpCTT Deputy High Commissioner in Dacca to keep us informed from time to time ?n trt v w»r jt w ^rf about the progress that Mr. Phizo has TiW w i ' made there towards the implementa tion of the scheme for an independent Vt no o f*fil Naga Government’ m fr m *ft j 1 aprt ^ n f ^ 1 Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Naturally, we have many sources of information Shri Tanfamani: Originally then including the Deputy High Commis were more than 300 employee re sioner in Dacca. But principally there trenched and that matter was refetrn sre many other sources and at other for adjudication. Again there wae 1 places too. strike in the loco and nearly 91 3865 Oral Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Oral Answers 3866

persons were retrenched. May I The Prime Minister and Minister of know, as a result ol this adjudication External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal and conciliation how many workers Nehru): (a) No. have been reinstated now? (b) Does not arise. Shri L. N. Mishra: The information Shri Shree Narayan Das: What is not correct. Only 49 persons wera happened to the proposal that was retrenched and employment was circulated to so many nations by the reduced by 209. At present as a Soviet Government? result of this award, there are no people who have been retrenched. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: The hon. Member wants to know as to what Shri Tangamani: How many happened to the proposal in regard to people are still outside? That is India and in regard to other countries. what I want to know. I do not know about other countries, Shri L. N. Mishra: I could not but the original proposal from the Soviet Union was for a course of train follow the question. ing which was not quite specified as Shri Tangamani: There was first to what training, allowances, scholar an adjudication for retrenchment which ships etc. were to be given. After is referred to in the main question much enquiry we found that the train Subsequently, there was a dismissal ing was rather, what might be called, which was also refered to early in the elementary and not the advanced Session May I know how many training. That particular training was people among them are yet to be not required by us. We had provision reinstated? for that here Further enquiries were made and Shri L. N. Mishra: The question the latest position has been that of the was referred to arbitration since the about five or six years’ course the two parties agreed to get the matter first year is spent more or less in disposed of through the arbitrator, learning the language there. It is not Shri M. C. Sharma, Deputy Superin clear that this training is for the final tendent of Police, Sharanpur and that training, i.e.. post-graduate training arbitrator gave his judgment which What we have been anxious to have both the parties have accepted as a was that So, we have been still result of which, hon. Member will corresponding about this. find out in the Gazette of India, no people have been retrenched and all I might mention here that apart have been employed. from this particular scheme, there is another scheme. A junior research officer of the Trombay Atomic Energy Indian Students in Soviet Union Department has been in Moscow train ing in radiation damage and cobalt 776. Shri Shree Narayan Das: Will complexes etc Another candidate is the Prime Minister be pleased to refer expected to take up another scholar to the reply given to Starred Question ship of the U.S.S.R. under this other No. 531 on the 27th February, 1958 scheme—physical chemistry. and state: Shri Ranga: Is it not a fact that (a) whether as a result of the offer apart from this we do send some of received from the Soviet Union any our highly trained technicians for number of students have been selected advance training in Soviet Russia? and sent for training in peaceful uses We sent some from Bhilai, i.e.. those of Atomic Energy; and who have been employed there. (b) if so, the institutions where they Shri Jawaharlal Nehrn: They are are being trained or will be trained? sent for a specific purpose— for the 3867 O ral Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Oral Answert 3868 plant which is being manufactured in Non-Conventional Varieties of Timber the Soviet Union. They go there, they see the plant being made and they are *778. Shri V. P. Nayar: Will the trained in the use of that plant. Minister of Works, Housing mad Sup ply be pleased to state: In this way people have been sent (a) the specific steps, if any, taken in large numbers to the Soviet Union by Government of India in increasing for the Bhilai plant and to Germany the use of non-conventional varieties for the Rourkela plant. Wherever the of timber for construction purposes -in plant is made, people go. Government’s constructions; and Industrial Estate Bahadurgarh (Punjab) (b) the results achieved in reducing the consumption of Teak, Sal and *777. Shri Ram Krishan: Will the other varieties of conventional timber, Minister of Commerce and Industry in 1957-58? be pleased to state the progress made so far in the Industrial Estate at The Deputy Minister of Works, Bahadurgarh in the Punjab State? Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K. Chanda): (a) Preliminary steps are The Minister of Industry (Shri being taken to procure sites at Banga Manubhai Shah): The State Govern lore, Bombay and Rajamundry for the ment consider that the cost of water establishment of seasoning plants supply in the proposed small Indus which will facilitate the use of non- trial Estate at Bahadurgarh will be conventional varieties of timber. very high and are therefore re-examin- Action is also being taken to procure ing the question in consultation with a seasoning-cum-preservation plant for their Public Health Authorities. the Hindustan Housing Factory, New Shri Ram Krishan: May I know by Delhi what time this matter will be decided (b) Does not arise in view of the finally? position explained in reply to part Shri Manubhai Shah: The State (a) of the Question. Government, as I said, are examin ing this question and as soon as their Shri V. P. Nayar: Is it a fact that examination is over and their recom the Forest Research Institute at mendations are received, we shall give Dehra Dun had established by jp- a decision on that. search several years ago that several varieties of non-conventional timber Shri Ram Krishan: May I know can be used economically and with if any alternative site has been advantage in the place of teak and chosen? sal in constructions? Shri Manubhai Shah: That also will depend upon the examination of the Shri Anil K. Chanda: In fact, we are Bahadurgarh site. If it is found uneco already using for the lower categories nomical they will select another site. of construction non-conventional type The selection of all sites for indus of timber. But, they do not give trial estates is a matter which is left to good results unless they are properly the State Governments, seasoned. We are therefore starting a seasoning-cum-preservation plant in the Housing Factory in Delhi.

TTfrj % fam TO##? srrei s f m *r Shri V. P. Nayar: Are the Govern «TWPPTT fasnr WRIT fc ? ment aware that owning to the short age in the supply of teak and also the excessive demand, prices have *ffaPTT vr f'TfeTTT % sfrmv % gone up very much? What are the steps which the Government propose fasr 1 to take in order to bring down the 3 « « 9 O ral Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1956 Oral Answers 3870 cost at construction by resorting to ether varieties which may not require seasoning? far w r srfcr, ‘sfa; to fcr spr *tt sppft strt $ ^ Shri Anil K. Chanda: Price of sea soned teak is indeed high because of jnrsra # wwx&r # mtft scarcity of supply from Burma. strt vt w&r w w r | t to* t Therefore, I have enumerated in my ffift ^ far answer that we are starting a season ing plant in the Housing Factory in ffPr 7^% f 1 strt «pt Delhi. I think it will go into opera *ft $ far ITT «qpT % 3f*r?T t I rifr tion in March 1959. There is a pro posal for starting seasoning plants in Bangalore, Rajamundry and Bombay S^PPT 3PT JTH T T # n$?T and sites are being selected. 1 1 Shri V. P. Nayar: Do the Govern ment have any target for replace ^r, a> 4 ^ «rr srft * 0 m o ^ 3IFTCT ^r^Tf | sftr smrerr rtrc wvrarr WF far fasfffaR i{ 5ft fffa- n TO ^ *Pfr#t £ faratft far rrf ^ i ^ ^ fair ^ ^?rr | fzrr s*ppt f <5, fa ^ K farzn 3TT I 7 ^TT> STTOPT ^ '3TW far Crap 3f|cT?Tf^ sfYr fy^FTetH favTPry srat 3TT5TT STF?T &

If it is readily available as the hoc. these 125 cases have been disposed at Member suggested in Madhya Pra and as a result thereof, 68 persons have desh...... so far been convicted and 439 cases are awaiting disposal. Shri M. L. Dwivedi: Is not the Gov ernment paying a higher price? Tim Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: May ber from Andamans will not be so I know what are the circumstances high. which are responsible for such • Shri Anil K. Chanda: For timber large-scale bogus allotment and how imported from? is it that the Government machinery entirely failed to detect this? What Shri M. L. Dwivedi: Burma timber steps have been taken against the is dearer than Andamans. Government machinery?

Shri Anil. K. Chanda: Burma tim The Minister of Rehabilitation ber is certainly the dearest. But we Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand are also informed that Burma timber Khanna): My hon. friend wants me is the best for certain types of work to go back to the years 1947 and 1948. like railway sleepers and so on. You Fifty lakhs or 60 lakh acres of land cannot use any other timber but only in the Punjab and P.E.P.S.XJ. Burma teak. were allotted under the quasi-perman ent allotment scheme. It is a matter Allotments to Displaced Persons of regret that there have been cases + of bogus allotment. Taking into con fShri Harish Chandra Mathur: sideration the lakhs of acres involved •nfl J 8hrl Bamani: and about 4 or 5 lakh families | Sardar Iqbal Singh: involved, the cases are not such as Shri Ram Krishan: should cause great alarm. Will the Minister of Rehabilitation Shri Damani: May I know whether and Minority Affairs be pleased to the Government is considering the state: appointment of a high-power com mittee to investigate and check such (a) the result of the enquiries made improper allotment of evacuee pro into the complaints received regard perty among displaced persons? ing bogus or duplicate allotment of evacuee land to displaced persons in Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: A num Punjab; ber of cases came to our notice. We received complaints. The quasi-per- (b) the number of persons and the manent allotment scheme, and now acreage of land involved; and the allotment scheme on a permanent basis is being administered by the (c) the action taken against the Punjab Government. We set up a persons who were responsible for such special department in 1956. That is allotments? the department which has been look The Deputy Minister of Rehabilita ing into these cases, and we have been tion (Shri P. g. Naskar): (a) and (b). able to reclaim or at least get back So far 16,620 complaints have been 20,000 acres of land. Every possible scrutinised. In about 3,500 cases bogus action is being taken and I can assure or duplicate allotments were detected the hon. Member and the House, if as a result of which an area of 28,273 any case of bogus allotment or frau standard acres has been retrieved. dulent allotment comes to our notice, I will see that proper action is taken. (c) 560 cases have been registered with the Police against the persons Shri Harish Chandra Mathur: Do 1 who have received allotments by understand that the Government is fraudulent means or by tampering satisfied with the work of the Govern with the jamabandi record. Out of ment machinery and at least there 3873 Oral Atwwers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 O ral Answers 3874 was no collusion of the officers of the P.V.C., the firm will start from Cal Government and no action is cium Carbide and Acetylene and then warranted? go on to Vinyl Chloride Monomer. Another scheme for the, manufacture Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: Two of Polyvinyl Acetate, resins and emul junior clerks were involved and they sions with a capacity of 200 tons per are being prosecuted. As far as satis annum has also been approved, but faction is concerned, I am fully satis the terms of collaboration are under fied with the great work and the efforts the consideration. Initially, the firm that are being put in by the Punjab will import Vinyl Acetate Monomer Government in this matter. and as and when the demand for Polyvinyl Acetate exceeds 200 tons per Chemicals month i.e. 120 tons of Monomer per + month, they expect to produce vinyl /Shri V. P. Nayar: -cetate from indigenously available *781. |^Shrl T. B. Vittal Rao: Calcium Carbide and Acetic acid. Will the Minister of Commerce and Shri V. P. Nayar: Could I know the Industry be pleased to state: annual requirement of foreign exchange for import according to the (a) what are the current industrial present position? uses of butanol, vinylacetate vivyl and poly-venyl-chloride and their annual Shri Manubhai Shah: Rs. two crores demand; and and 74 lakhs for all raw materials, Cb) what is the present position of resins, powders and solvents. indigenous manufacture thereof? Advisory Committee on Slum The Minister of Industry (Shri Clearance Manubhai Shah): (a) Butanol is used as a solvent generally in the form of + its ester viz. butyl acetate. It is an f Shri Panigrahi: important solvent for lacquers and I Sardar Iqbal Singh: also used in the manufacture of peni *782. J Shri Radha Raman: cillin. Polyvinyl acetate in the form I Shri Tangamani: of its emulsion is used in the manu | Shri Hem Barua: facture of adhesives, paints, textile Shri Bibhuti Mishra: finishing and for certain other coatings. Polyvinyl chloride is an important Will the Prime Minister be pleased thermo-plastic .resin capable of wide to state: application in the plastic industry. (a) whether the Advisory Com Its principal uses are for sheetings, mittee on Slum Clearance have sub coated cloth, insulated covering for mitted their report; cables and wires and various other extruded and moulded articles includ (b) if so, the main features of the ing piping. The annual demand of report; P.V.C. Resins and Compositions is (c) whether Government have estimated to be of the order of 1200 accepted these recommendations; and tons. (d) steps taken by Government to (b) There is no manufacture as yet implement them? of Butanol but a scheme has been licensed and production may com The Parliamentary Secretary to the mence in early 1960. A scheme for Minister of External Affairs (Shri the manufacture of P.V.C. composition Sadath Ali Khan): (a) Yes. with a capacity of 240 tons per month (2,880 tons per annum) has also been (b) to (d). The Report is under recently approved. For producing the consideration of Government. 387s O ral Armoera 1 SEPTEMBER 1858 Oral Ansvotrt 3876

Shri Panigrahi: May I know whe Shri Tangaaiani: May I know ther, after receipt of the report, there have been any schemes on the part Mr. Speaker: What k the hurry? I have called Shri Naval Prabhakar. of the Government to revise the pro gramme of slum clearance which is Shri Naval Prabhakar comes from Delhi, while Shri Tangamani comes already in progress? from Cape Comorin. D ie Prime Minister and Minister of Shri Tangamani; The report on slum External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal clearance is for clearing all the urban Nehrn): The report, I may remind areas. The main recommendations... the House, was placed on the Table Mr. Speaker: I have always been of the House two days ago by my giving opportunity to the hon. Mem colleague the Minister of Law. This ber. report has been considered and is being considered by the Planning Shri Tangamani: It is not only for Commission. It is not a question of Delhi...... revising any programme; but, may be making additions or variations here Mr. Speaker: Let it be for Cape and there. Comorin also. Shri Tangamani: There is no ques Shri Panigrahi: In the report it has tion of Cape Comorin. It is for all the been submitted that the work of slum urban areas. clearance is not satisfactory. In view of this report, may I know whether Mr. Speaker: I am really surprised there will be any special agency to that of all hon. Members in this take up the work of slum clearance House, Shri Tangamani should com so that it will be speeded up? plain. I have been calling him al Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member most on every question, whether he is wants to anticipate the decision of the responsible for the main question Government. The Government is or not. Occasionally if I should turn considering the report. to the right side, why should there be complaint? Now, Shri Naval Prabhakar. Shri Jawaharlal Nehrn: May I also say that there is no question of special vrm wr: w # zmt attention being given to this matter because the Government have con m m ff % n fe p ft sidered this as of the most vital im ■ f>T fqH I W ? portance. The matter itself is so difficult. I do not know that there is any other subject on which more SPT fo r m W |, rfT^TT time and energy has been spent than let us say, slum clearance in Delhi. 5ft t ^ *PTkTT I Very expert teams are sitting down for s r p 3, A' the planning of Delhi. It is not mere ly a question of cleaning up an area, ST3T SJPT $ "SIT $ but it is one of fitting it m many p r 1 1 t o ttt ^fhrr ways, taking people elsewhere, pre £ 1 x m fras smsr paring a master plan, etc. Enormous amount of labour has been expended f t o 3 n? 1 on it and is being expended on it Other States are doing it also. Shri Tangamani: In the report, the main recommendation is that slum sft m m w t $ an* clearance will have to be considered mainly in the sphere of development STJRTT jf % 3 ifrft ftWffr of urban areas. There ie already £ wffcmt $ ...... slum clearance scheme which hat Written Annoers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Written Answer* 3878 been submitted by the various State Nicotinic-Acid Hy dr aside and Amino- Governments. May I know whether Salcyllc Acid ia the light of these recommendations, *755. Shri T. B. Vittal Kao: Will the the State Governments will be asked Minister of Commerce and Industry to send separate proposals? be pleased to state the present posi Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I do not tion of the indigenous manufacture think there is any lack of proposals. from primary raw materials if any, of It is a question of finding money and (1) 150-nicotinic-acid-hydrazide and its other ways to implement them. derivatives (ii) para-amino-salcylic Acid? The Minister of Industry (Shri WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUES Manubhai Shah): There are at present TIONS 7 farms who have been licensed under the Industries (Development and Re Export of Iron Ore gulation) Act, 1951 to manufacture ‘Isonicotinic Acid Hydrazide’ from *749. Shri V. C. Shukla: Will the primary raw materials. Their manu Minister of Commerce and Industry facturing capacity is 30-4 tons per be pleased to state: annum. The actual production of this (a) whether it is a fact that the drug by 5 of these 7 firms during 1957 Italian Government purchase organisa was about 16 tons. The other 2 firms tion has proposed a long term con have not yet started production. tract for the import of iron ore on the lines of the recent Indo-Japanese Two firms have been licensed to accord; and manufacture derivates from Isonicoti nic Acid Hydrazide for a capacity of (b) if so, what steps have been taken 16,560 lbs. per annum. Their actual or are proposed to be taken in the production during 1957 was 5,441 lbs. direction of concluding such a deal? In regard to P.A.S. (Para-amino- The Minister of Commerce (Shri salcylic Acid), there is only one firm Kanungo): (a) A proposal to buy iron producing this drug and another has ore on long term basis from the West been recently licensed. The actual Coast has been received from Italy. production during 1957 was about 19 (b) The matter is still under exami tons. nation in consultation with the Plan ning Commission and the Ministries Jute Surplus concerned. •758. Shri Rameshwar T&ntla: Will the Minister of Commerce and In Import of Jute dustry be pleased to refer to the reply *753. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the given to Starred Question No. 1618 Minister of Commerce and Industry on the 11th April, 1958 and state: be pleased to state: (a) whether the enquiry into the (a) the programme for the import jute surplus in Bihar has since been of jute during 1958-59; and completed; and (b) the estimated amount of foreign (b) if so, the finding thereof? exchange involved? The Minister of Commerce (Shri Kanungo): (a) Yes, Sir. The Minister of Commerce (Shri Kanungo): (a) and (b). Imports will (b ) The main findings were as be allowed to the minimum extent re follows: quired over and above the indigenous (1) The quantity of unsold jute supplies. It will not be in the public in Bihar in the third week of interest to disclose the estimates of May was estimated at about import* 2,00,000 bales. 3879 Written Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Written Answers 3880

(2) The new crop was expected Supply be pleased to state: to be good. (a) whether any commission is (3) Import of cuttings should charged by D.G.S. and D.I.SJ4. be suspended temporarily in order Washington and I.S.D. London when to promote early disposal of the they make purchases for State Gov unsold jute in Bihar. ernments industrial undertakings or (4) While rail transport facili quasi-public bodies; ties are satisfactory, road facilities (b) if so, the extra rate charged; and inside the jute growing areas in Bihar need improvement. (c) the amount of purchases made (5) Retting facilities are not on behalf of bodies mentioned in part adequate as a result of which the (a) above during the last three quality of the fibre suffered. years? (6) It was not necessary to per The Deputy Minister of Works, mit export of raw jute. Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K. Chanda): (a) Yes, Sir. Purchases for State Governments (b) Department charges are levi *761. Pandit D. N. Tlwary: Will the able according to the following scale Minister of Works, Housing and since 1-4-56:

For purchase For inspection fcFor shipping D.G.S. &D. 0-5 0-5% I.S.D. London o-5% o-5% 0 ’ 5% ISM Washington 1 -o% inclu At actuals. ding Shipping.

(<) (Value in lacs of rupees) Years State Govts. Quasi Public Bodies

1955-S6 ■ • 21,20 54 I.85-39 1956-57 • 29,75 03 4,57 49 1957-58 . 25,44-55 3.17-63 Statistics of purchases made on be half of ‘State Governments Industrial Undertakings’ are not maintained separately.

Cotton Textile Export Promotion Cottage Industries Emporium, New Council Delhi *769. Shrlm&ti Renu Chakravartty: *766. Shri Vajpayee: W il? the Will the Minister of Commerce Minister of Commerce and Industry Industry be pleased to state: be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that water entered into the premises of the Cot (a) whether the Cotton Textile Ex tage Industries Emporium, New Delhi port Promotion Council has conducted causing damage to the material and any survey of the East African market stock; for the Indian Cotton textiles recent ly; and (b) if so efforts made to save the material; and (b) If so, the result thereof? (c) the financial loss due to flooding of the premises? Hie Minister of Commerce (Shri Kanango): (a) No regular survey has The Minister of Industry (Shri been conducted. MaaaUial Shah): (a) Yes, Sir. (b) The stocks wen immediately

The Parliamentary Secretary to The Minister o f RefaabtUtatton u i the Minister of External Affairs (Shri Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chan* Sadath Ali Khan): (a) No, Sir. Khanna): (a) to (c). There is a pro posal to set up an Industrial Estate (b) Does not arise. at Rudrapur, Uttar Pradesh, for re habilitation of 500 urban families from Export of Jute Bags East Pakistan. A scheme is being pre pared by the State Government. It is •788. Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri: not possible at this state to indicate Will the Minister of Commerce and precisely the details of the industries Industry be pleased to state: that will be started. (a) whether it is a fact that a con tract has been signed between the Houses for Sweepers of Calcutta State Trading Corporation of India Corporation and the National Agricultural Pro *785. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: ducts Import and Export Corporation Will the Minister of Works, Housing of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and Supply be pleased to refer to the under which Vietnam will purchase reply given to Starred Question No. from India one million jute bags; 497 on the 31st July, 1957 and state (b) the currency in which payments whether the scheme submitted by the for this purchase of jute bags will be Calcutta Corporation for housing of made by the Democratic Republic of sweepers etc. has since been sanc Vietnam; and tioned’ (c) what is the method by which The Deputy Minister of Works, the contracted number of jute bags Housing and Supply (Shri Anil EL would be procured by the State Trad Chanda): It has not been possible to ing Corporation from the Indian sanction the project formulated by market? the Calcutta Corporation for the re housing of sweepers as the West The Minister of Commerce (Shri Bengal Government have already com Kanungo): (a) Yes, Sir. mitted their entire 2nd Plan alloca tion of Rs 2'80 crores for execution (b) In rupees. of other projects under Slum Clear (c) Through the lowest tenderer ance Scheme. It has also not been possible to make a separate allocation for Calcutta Corporation’s project due Industrial Estate for Displaced Persons to paucity of funds. at Rudrapur (U.P.) Vividh Bharati Programme of A.LR. •7*4 / 8hri Vajpayee: I Sardar Iqbal Singh: *788. Shri Hem Barua: Will the Minister of Information and Broad Will the Minister of Rehabilitation casting be pleased to state: and Minority Affairs be pleased to state: (a) whether there is a proposal with Government for the expansion of the (a) whether there is a proposal to Vividh Bharati programme of the set up an industrial estate at Rudra A.I.R.; and pur In Uttar Pradesh for rehabilitat ing displaced persons from East (b) if so, what are the steps that Pakistan; Government have so far taken towards its expansion? (b) if so, the number of displaced families to be settled there; and The Minister o f Informattea mod Broadcasting (Dr. Keskar): («> and (c) the details of the industries (b). In the beginning the duration of proposed to be set up in the estate? the Vividh Bharati programme was 5 3*85 Written Answers l SEPTEMBER 1958 Written Answers 3886. hewn on week days and 7} hours on to issue small value licences on an. Sundays/holidays. The duration of actual-user basis to printers, labora the programme has been increased to tories etc. Even though the number Si hours on week days and 8 hours of licences issued in this manner are on Sundays/holidays. It is proposed to large, the total value of such licence* increase the duration of this pro is much less than half the value o l gramme farther to 6} hours on week licences issued to established impor days and 9J hours on Sundays/holi ters. Information regarding the actual days, from 3rd October, 1958. utilisation of the licences is not avail able. It is our objective to expand the programme gradually for the whole 2. There is still a shortage of pho day as and when money becomes av tographic materials, but the gap bet ailable. ween the demand and the imports cannot be bridged until the foreign Import licences for photographic exchange position improves. The materials reason for the shortage is obvious,, namely restricted imports on account •in* /S h r i V. C. Shakla: of difficult foreign exchange position. ^Shri Dinesh Singh: Will the Minister of Commerce and Building Materials Industry be pleased to state: *789 J'^hrl D. C. S harm a; * Pandit D. N. Tiwary: (a) whether it is a fact that during the October, 1957-March 1958 period Will the Minister of Works, Hous majority of the licences issued for ing and Supply be pleased to refer to* the import of sensitised photographic the reply given to Starred Question materials were in favour of non-esta- No. 1778 on the 22nd April, 1958 and blished importers of such materials; state the progress made with regard to the use of substitutes for steel and' (b) if so, how many of such li cement in the execution of building censees were connected with the pho projects by the Central and State tographic trade and what is the posi Governments? tion of the amount of licences issued and actually utilised by them during The Deputy Minister of Works, the above period; Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K. Chanda): It is still too early to make (c) whether it is a fact that at pre an assessment. With a view, how sent there is a serious shortage of ever, to promote the manufacture and. sensitised photographical materials in use of lime a symposium on “Manu the country; and facture and use of Building Lime in India" was held at Rewa in March (d) if so, the reason thereof? 1958. Copies of the proceedings of the Symposium have been placed in The Minister of Commerce (Shri the Parliament Library. Kanongo): (a) to (d). During October 1957-March 1958 the licensing to esta Coal Gas Production Plant in Delhi blished importers was of the order of Ba. 20 lakhs. After the announce •790. Sardar Iqbal Singh: Will the ment of the import policy for that Minister of Commerce and Industry period, complaints were received from be pleased to refer to the reply given the trade regarding shortages of pho to Starred Question No. 285 on the tographic materials and it was de 19th February, 1958 and state the cided to issue a licence for Rs. 6 lakhs progress made so far in regard to the to the State Trading Corporation for setting up of a coal gas production, import against rupee account and also plant in Delhi? 3887 Written Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1988 Written Answers g388

The Minister of Industry . (Shri Films Mannfchal Shah): Further considera tion of the scheme has been dropped / 8hri B*** Krishan: \ Shri Vajpayee: by the Delhi Administration on ac count of its unsatisfactory economic Will the Minister of Information features and local conditions such as and Broadcasting be pleased to refer long distances between houses in New to the reply given to Unstarred Ques Delhi and consequent higher cost of tion No. 832 on the 4th March, 1958, distribution. and state the names of the ten feature films and one trailer which were re fused certificates for public exhibition Retrenchment of Journalists by the Board during 1957?

•781. Shri Vajpayee: Will the The Minister of Information and Minister of Labour and Employment Broadcasting (Dr. B. V. Keskar): be pleased to state: The names of Indian films which (a) the number of complaints, if were refused certificates of public any, received by the Central Govern exhibition by the Central Board of ment with regard to dismissal and Film Censors during 1957 are:— retrenchment from the Working Jour nalists in the Union Territory of 1. Paying Guest (Hindi). Delhi; 2. Neelmandi (Hindi). (b) the nature thereof; and 3. Bombay Flight 417 (English). '4 Dushman (Hindi). (c) the action taken in the matter? 5. Beti (Hindi). The Deputy Minister of Labour 6. Pervin (Hindi). (Sbri Abid Ali): (a) to (c). Only one 7. Turn Sa Nahin Dekha (Hindi). •complaint was received from the Indian 8. Bola Taisa Na Chale (Marathi). Federation of Working Journalists regarding the termination of the ser 9. Do Mastane (Hindi), and one vices of the former Secretary-General Trailer of Fashion (Hindi). •of the Federation, by the employing Newspaper. It was referred to an In After necessary excisions were dustrial Tribunal by the Delhi Admi carried out by the applicants, the nistration. revised versions of the films: Paying Guest, Neelmani, Dushman, Beti, Pervin, Turn Sa Nahin Dekha, Do Steel Processing Industry Mastane, Fashion, and the trailer of Fashion were certified subsequently *792. Shri Hem Barua: Will the for public exhibition. Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: Jalefa Refugee Colonies (a) whether Government propose 1268. Shri Dasaratha Deb: Will the to include the steel processing in Minister of Rehabilitation and Minor dustry as part of the “core” of the ity Affairs be pleased to state: Plan; and (a) the total number of displaced (b) if so, what steps Government persons in Jalefa Refugee Colonies, have so far taken to dovetail the pro Tripura, who have not been paid the gress of steel processing industry with loan in full; ihe progress of steel producing units? (b) the reasons for delay in payment The Minister of Industry (Shri of the loan; and MWafchat Shah): (a) No, Sir. (c) what steps are being taken to (b ) Does aot arise. expedite payment •£ these team? 3889 Written Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Written Answers 3890

V ie Minister of Rehabilitation and The Minister of Commerce and Minority Affair* (Shri Mehr Chand Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): KHwna); (a) 803 families. (a) and (b). 32 industrial undertak ings licensed under the Industries (b) and (c). 190 families deserted (Development and Regulation) Act, the colonies after getting the first 1951, have been established ' during instalment of loan. The balance of the period 1st January, 1958 to 15th the loan was, therefore, not paid to August, 1958. During the same period them. The remaining 113 families 92 industrial undertakings were ex have been given all other loans ex panded. cept to cover reclamation cost which will be paid when they have reclaim Information in regard to industrial ed their area. undertakings in the sugar, vanaspati and fuel industries is being collected and will be laid on the Table of the Industrial Undertakings House in due course. 1209. Shri Fangarkar: Will the Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: Jute Industry (a) the total number of industrial 1210. Shri Pangarkar: Will the undertakings licensed under the In Minister of Commerce and Industry dustries (Development and Regula be pleased to state the value of the tion) Act, 1951, which have been imported material required by the established during 1958-59 so far; and Jute Industry during 1957-58? (b) the total number of industrial undertakings expanded during the The Minister of Commerce and same period? Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): Rs. 1 . Raw Jute . 6,81,93,873 2. Jute Mill Machinery stores and spare parts . . 64,48,676 3. Electrical Machinery and spares . 13,87,848 4 . Capital Goods 90,30,866 5. Jute Batching Oil M8.33,333

T otal 9.99.44,596

The figures against Item No. 1 rep (b) the number of village oil crush resent the value of the actual imports. ing centres opened and their location? For the other items the figures rep resent value of import licences issued The Minister of Commerce and In during the year. dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri)* (a) According to information receiv. ed from the Coir Board, the All Indit Cottage Industries Handicrafts Board, the Central Silk Board and the Khadi & Village In 1211. Shri Pangarkar: Will the dustries Commission, cottage indus Minister of Commerce and Industry tries started on cooperative basis are be pleased to state: 21. These industries are:— (a) the number of cottage indus Coir, Khadi (on traditional char- tries started by the Bombay State on kha), Khadi (on the ambar charkha), co-operative basis during the first two Village Pottery, Village oil, Soap yean of the Second Five Year Plan; making, Village leather, Palmgur, and 3891 Written Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Written Answers 3893

Pottery (Artistic), Leather (Artistic), 1997-58 was 894. A much larger num Glass Toys, Cane and Bamboo, Dyeing ber, however, is believed to be ’con and Printing, Embroidery, Manufac suming opium grown by themselves. ture of Zari thread, Weaving in tra (c) An intensive drive to dissuade ditional designs, Lacquer ware, Brass- people from cultivating and consuming ware, Himmru, Mushroo Work and opium has already been launched. Plaithan Gold thread and pillow Vigorous propaganda explaining the work. baneful effects of opium is being carri (b) A statement giving the inform ed out among the population by ation is laid on the Table of the Political, Education and Medical Offi House. [See Appendix III, annex- cers and their staff. Issue of permits ure, No. 113.] for the purchase of opium is restrict ed only to old addicts. Opium-Eaters in N.E.F.A.

1212. Shrimati Maflda Ahmed: Will Expenditure on Handloom Industry the Prime Minister be pleased to in Rajasthan state: 1213. Shri Onkar Lai: Will the (a) in which of the divisions of Minister of Commerce and Industry N.E.F.A. the taking of opium is much be pleased to state: prevalent among the tribals; (b) what are their numbers; and (a) the amount spent in Rajasthan for the development of handloom in (c) what measures are in hand to dustry during 1958-59 so far; and eradicate the opium habits among them? (b) the items on which the ex penditure has been incurred? The Prime Minister and Minister o f External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal The Minister of Commerce and In Nehru): (a) TIRAP, SIANG and dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): LOHIT. (a) A sum of Rs. 9 lakhs has been allocated to Rajasthan for the deve (b) The full statistics are not avail lopment of Handloom Industry for able, but a considerable section of 1958-59. Till the end of May the ex the population in these Divisions is penditure incurred by the State is re in the habit of taking opium. The ported as Rs. 23,353. number of persons to whom permits for purchase of opium were issued in (b):

Serial Grants Expenditure No.

Rs. 1 Organisational Expenditure 4,355 z Sales Depots 8,086 3 Inspection and Stamping 8,406 4 Dye House* 1,911 5 Central Depots . 127 6 Mobile Van* 468

23.353

Loans : Nil. Written Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Written Answers 3894

Secm d Five Year Flan Commission did not give any direct financial aid to the Bharat Sevak 1*14. Shri Oskar Lai: Will the Min Samaj in Rajasthan during 1957-58. ister of Planning be pleased to state the projects which have been approv Tanneries far Hides and Skins ed by the Planning Commission in Rajasthan State to increase the food 1216. Shri Abdnl Salam: Will the output during the Second Five Year Minister of Commerce and Industry Plan? be pleased to lay a statement show ing: The Deputy Minister of Planning (Shri S. N. Mishra): A statement is (a) the number of tanneries specia laid on the Table of the House. (See lising in prime-tanned hides and skins Appendix in, annexure No. 114.] in Tiruchirapalli District in Madras State, which have closed down in the Bharat Sevak Samaj last two years; and 1215. Shri Onkar Lai: Will the Min (b) the number of skilled workers ister of Planning be pleased to state affected and the fall, if any, in the the amount of financial aid given to production and exports of East India Bharat Sevak Samaj in Rajasthan by Kips in the last two years? the Government of India during 1957- 58? The Minister of Commerce and In dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): The Deputy Minister of Planning (a) and (b). The information is as (Shri 8. N. Mishra): The Planning follows:

No. of tanneries closed down No. of skilled workers affected Fall in production and experts of East India Kips.

2 70 14,000 Nos.

Cottage Industries in Punjab (a) the number of Companies in which Seth Ram Krishan Dalmia has 1217. Shri Bam Krishan: Will the the controlling interest; and Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: (b) the estimated total turn over of the business of such companies m (a) whether there is a proposal to 1957-58? develop some cottage industries in backward area of Mohindergarh Dis The Minister of Commerce and In trict of the Punjab State; and dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (a) The exact number of companies (b) if so, the nature of cottage in which Shri R. K. Dalmia has a industries proposed to be developed? controlling interest cannot bp stated precisely, unless investigations under The Minister of Commerce and In Section 247 of the Companies Act, dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): 1956 are undertaken in an indeter (a) Yes, Sir. minably large number of cases. How (b) Khadi, the Village Oi] Industry ever, in addition to the companies (two units consisting of ten ghams) under investigation by the Special and Soap making with non-edible oils Commission of Inquiry, tho following (two B class units). 10 companies are reputed to com Companies prise what is popularly known as R. K. Dalmia group of concerns: U1S. Shri Bam Krishan: Will the Minister of Commerce and Industry be 1. Bhagwati Glass Works Private pleased to state: Ltd. 3895 Written Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1858 Written Answers 3896

2. Marvav Sahyog Private Ltd. (b) the manufacturing capacity of 3. Patiala Biscuit Manufacturers each factory; and Private Ltd. (c) the number of bicycles produc 4. Dalmia Dadri Cement Ltd. ed during 1957-58? 5. Govan Brothers Private Ltd. 6. Edward Keventer(s) Private The Minister of Commerce and In Ltd. dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): 7. Swadesh Nlrman Private Ltd. (a) Large scale sector. 5 . Matru-bhoomi Nirman Private 8 Small scale sector. 22 Ltd. 9. Bharat Development Private (b) Statements ‘A ’ and ‘B’ giving Ltd. information relating to the large 10. Delhi Glass Works Private scale sector and small scale sector Ltd. respectively are laid on the Table of the House. [See Appendix III, an (b) The estimated turn over of nexure No. 118.] business of these ten companies for 1957-58 is not available, as 9 of them (c) Large scale sector 242,794 being private companies are not bicycles. required to file their profit and loss Small scale sector 37,591 accounts with the Registrar of Joint bicycles. Stock Companies, and the annual accounts of the public company for Vigilance Staff 1957-58 are also not available. 1221. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister of Rehabilitation and Minor Sewing Machine Factories ity Affairs be pleased to state the number of corruption cases detected Shri Bam Kriahan: by the vigilance staff against the Sardar Iqbal Singh: personnel of the Rehabilitation De Will the Minister of Commerce and partment in New Delhi and Delhi Industry be pleased to state: area during the year 1957-58? (a) the number of sewing machine The Minister of Rehabilitation and making factories in Punjab; Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand (b) the capacity of each factory; and Khanna): 20 cases involving 20 Gov ernment servants. (c) the total number of Sewing Machines produced during 1957-58? Handicrafts in Punjab The Minister of Commerce and In. 1222. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): Minister of Commerce and Industry (a) 58. be pleased to state: (b) A statement is laid on the Table of the House. [See Appendix III, (a) whether any handicrafts are annexure No. 115.] being developed in the Punjab State under the guidance and patronage of (c) 55,758. the All India Handicrafts Board; and

Bicycle Factories (b) if so, how many persons have been employed and what is the average earning per head? 1 9 M / 8 1 ,1 1 * am Kriahan: ^ gardar Iqbal Singh: The Minister of Commerce and In Will the Minister of Commerce and dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): industry be pleased to state: (a) Yes, Sir. (a) the number of bicycle factories (b) Most of the State schemes be in Punjab; ing implemented for development of 3897 Written Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Written Answers 3 £98 handicrafts are either training schemes from abroad as are not yet being made or servicing facility schemes which in the country. This involves ques do not envisage direct employment of tion of foreign exchange in the present persons. No record is being kept by position. Here also, everything possi the State Government about the num ble is being done to licence the re ber of persons who set up their own quirements of imported components to production unite after receiving train the extent possible but due to pre ing which could facilitate the deter sent foreign exchange difficulties, the- mination of average earning per head. imports have to be on a restricted As regards work directly undertaken scale. by the All India Handicrafts Board, 35 women have been trained in Raffia Industries in Deihi work. Those who have started work ing independently are earning a wage 1224. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the varying from Rs. 1|8|- to Rs. 21- per Minister of Commerce and Industry day. be pleased to state: (a) the names of new industries Production of Automobiles proposed to be set up in Delhi during the Second Five Year Plan; 1223. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister of Commerce and Industry (b) whether the Central Govern be pleased to state the measures taken ment have received any specific so far to achieve self-sufficiency in proposals from the Delhi Adminis the matter of production of auto tration in this regard; and mobiles in the country? (c) if so, the amount of money allocated therefor? The Minister of Commerce and The Minister of Commerce and In Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): To achieve self-sufficiency in the (a) and (b). A list of industries so matter of production of automobiles, far licensed under the Industries it is necessary to ensure adequate (Development and Regulation) Act manufacturing capacity in the coun in Delhi is laid on the Table of the- try in respect of the principal com House. [See Appendix III, annexure* ponents in the major factories and No 117.] also for sufficient volume of manu facture of ancillary items in other No specific proposals for the estab units. In respect of all these lines lishment of new industries have been import of adequate capital equipment received from the Delhi Adminis and CKD parts and components is tration. called for. While, by and large, the major part of such capital equipment (c) Does not arise in view of the for the principal automobile manu answer to (a) and (b) above. facturers has already come in, in respect of the current programmes of Closure of Trade with Western Tibet passenger car and truck manufacture, 1225. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the Government have been doing their Prime Minister be pleased to refer best to provide for the import of the to the reply given to Starred Question balance of capital equipment on No. 1762 on the 22nd April, 1958 and acceptable terms of payment, or state the decision taken on the re through the Export-Import Bank loan. presentation submitted by a delegation The same policy is adopted in respect of traders representing trans- of ancillary Industries also. The pro Himalayan trade interests? grammes of indigenous manufacture in all these cases being progressive, The Prime Minister and Minister o f there is also involved, in varying de External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal' grees, import of such components Nehru): The various suggestions,. 38 99 W ritten Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Written Answers

made in the Memorandum submitted (c) The following participated in by the traders representing tr&ns- this Conference:— Himalayan trade interests are being examined. The matters raised are Representatives of: — largely the concern of the border Central Government and some States who have been requested to State Governments; -consider the representation. A final Organisations of Employers, decision is inevitably likely to take Technicians and Workers in .some time. the Mining Industry; Some Members of Parliament; Export of Monkeys Mining experts and actual workers 1226. Shri Damanl: Will the Minis in mines. ter of Commerce and Industry be (d) The Conference has not reached pleased to state the effect the im at final decisions yet. position of ban on the export of monkeys weighing less than 6 lbs had Labour Officers on India’s Foreign Exchange earnings’ 1228. Shri S. M. Banerjee: Will the The Minister of Commerce and In* Minister of Labour and Employment dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): be pleased to state: Since monkeys are not categorised by (a) whether Labour Officers attach weight for purposes of our trade ed to various Central Government statistics, no precise information is establishments have not yet been con -available. But it appears that, in con firmed; sequence of the ban, the total export (b) if so, the reasons for the same; -slumped steeply, and the ops ra tors and were known to be exploring the ■possibilities of tapping alternative (c) whether steps have been taken .sources of supply. to confirm them? The Deputy Minister of Labour Safety Measures in Coal Mines (Shri Abid Ali): (a) to (c). Nine Labour Officers attached to the var f Sardar Iqbal Singh: ious Central Government undertak 1227. Shri Ram Krishan: ings have already been confirmed. Shri Supakar: Proposal to confirm about fifty more Labour Officers is under consr’ '.' ation Will the Minister of Labour and Employment be pleased to state: (a) whether a conference to discuss safety measures in mines was held on 4he 4th August, 1958; (b) if so, the venue of the Con stfcr »nfr ^ srfcr, % ference; WdftFKT 5T55T tfWT 95.’ O % (c) the names of those who partici % yWl'ti if f>HT pated in it; and *r«r % a rapT far# «rrc*cr (d) the steps proposed to be taken srpff to enforce the decisions of the Con trr

wrofar ^ * t fiwhr wgw % w m t f nr* tr fo ff fc w i t t ^ V . i w t : w t «rrfigw iwr wftn »Ht ^e. dfcr, % f * « » « * » : w n U to i star hw t % httt % L«rr srow s * m : «* * "* 3 it* im# *(SV fqT ft:: **tt firohjr, wwm «ftr ifr r w *rfr (v) w r srfa anf ^ fr-grata ^ s?th wft ?TCT tftitf ft? : apff srffar *rt»r tn $ ; *fcc ( * ) fc?5ft w *$ fkstft $ T O f ^"ft t *rwrcT v4^rfrzft * fa* («r) irfe ^t, ?ft srfa «pi s s »pt fa^T-fa^ ^cTl^ft A ^T in |i* I ; Prt* ftwfa fttf an% t' ? (^) S^?^*f%cT#iprrh:^ ; «nf«rwr * m sfrtn »?jft («ft wm *ffc «|TT|T siraft) : ( * ) vft ^t, uxvs % ^Tt»T W Tft I I ( t ) ^ r ^rT^rr * fa-ar^fr, Trct, tfhrTvPT 3r wfiri vrfc ^ srfinrcT'r f fo r r c v sjt* * w *W w r S'Tfa (sr) *,\»^,s.oo aft* r f t ’

(? o ^ *£*=; CRT) wrarm *?Yt *aft {«f*H?o *0 t f t ) ; (Sff) % (IT). ^PTT *t qr fawr w fcrr *nrr | 1 «ft*n % m * «n«nT [ifow 'r f t f w \, s«nr H = J 1

* rt t w t w t ^ r ft jr w ?WI 3Vtnr?r * t facHT t o *tt $rfa ff >n be pleased to state' wft f f w n w | ’ (a) the number of sewing machines ?twt Ttftn irtt («ft wm manufactured in the country during ^ P fT srrn fl): «fnrr ^ ^ 1958-59 so far; and

Pnj% % ®wfrv # (b) the number of machines out of * m % yar ?r^ 1 these sold in the country and the 5 ^ 5 * l f ^T’TT ? H F n number exported?

^ | fy «fmr $ «rrnr ^ ^ »Rr- The Minister of Commerce and In w m A % f*RHi ^rnf *rr ?ifH dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): Information is available only upto ( f > 188 L 3 D - t 3pg Written Anno*. * SIFTM m MM Vttt** 4*mm» * *

June 1859. The figure* Sta the period April-Jim* JfSg *» a* foOews:

(a) No. of senMng machines manufactured :— Large-Scale Sector 53,306 Small Sole Sector . 6^405 (This figure it tn respect of i f va&t* am « f 36 units in the approved hat of the P»- vdopment Commissioner (Small Stale Industrie*). Production figures to m - pect of the remaining unit* are not avail able). V) No. of sewing ma No. of sewing machines exported chines sold in the country Large Scale Ssctor • Figure not 2313 available. Small Scale Sector 6586 Nil.

integration of Foreign and Rehabilitation of Displaced Persons Information Service from W. Pakistan

Sardar Iqbal Singh; 1235. Sardar Iqbal Singh: Will the Shri Harish Chandra Mathor: Minister of Rehabilitation and Mino Will the Prime Minister be pleased rity Affairs be pleased to state: to state* (a) the number of displaced persons from West Pakistan in Punjab; and (a) whether there is any proposal for the integration of foreign service and information service under the (b) whether all of them have been External Affairs Ministry rehabilitated’

(b) the reasons therefor; and The Minister of Rehabilitation and Minority Affairs (Shri Mehr Chand (c) the steps taken by Government Khanna): (a) 27,37,000 in this regard so far’ (b) In the view of the Ministry all The Prime Minister and Minister of those in need of rehabilitation assist External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal ance have been rehabilitated Com Nehrn): (a) There is no proposal for pensation has also been paid to a the integration of the existing per large number of displaced claimants sonnel of the External Publicity Or m Punjab and with the payment of ganisation into the Indian Foreign compensation to the remaining per Service However, a proposal that sons, the balance of the problem, if future vacancies should be filled by any, will also have been resolved. LFS. Officers is under the considera tion of the Ministry. Second Five Tear Plan (b) Experience has shown that really first class men from the 1236 Sardar Iqbal Singh: Will the Journalistic profession or the open Minister of Planning be pleased to market are not forthcoming and the state: Ministry has been advised to consider (a) the number of major projects training their own officers It is also likely to be completed during 1958-59 considered that before dealing with under the Second Five Year Plan; and external publicity an tofflcer should also have had training and experience (b) the total amount to be spent on in political, commercial and economic each during the same period? affairs. The Deputy Minister of nuw M (c) The matter is still under the (Shri 8. N. Mlshra-); (a) and ehowti.

1958-59 ^*me of project (Budget Estimate*)

(Rs. lakhs)

Pootr 1. Maithon (60 MW) D.V.C. Project 2. Panchet Hill* Project (40 MW) D.V.C. > 825-00 3. Poringalkuthu H.E. Project (32 MW) Kerala State 8-92 4. Korba Project Stauon (90 MW) Madhya Pradesh State 4Bi-33 5. Penyar Hydro Scheme (105 MW) Madras State 73-54 6. Madras Thermal Plant Extension (30 MW) Madras 19 29 Industry

1. Expansion of the Sindn Fertiliser Factory 199'00 2. Hindustan Cables (co-axial cable project) 30 00 3. Durgapur Coke-Oven Project of West Bengal 420 00 Railways

Lint capacity work, doubling and conversions 1. Central • Delhi Mathura (45 miles—B.G.) 50 00 2. Northern Kanpur-Allahabad (partial) (60 miles—B.G.) . 90*00 3. Southern Vinnamangalam-Terrupattur (19-5 miles B.G ) 84*00 4. South-Eastern : Rourkela—Drug (282 miles—B.G.) . 848*00 Other Line Capacity Works

5. Eastern • Howrah-Burdwan Mam line (including Tarakeswar Branch) BG— 66 miles 203 38 Major Ports

1. Marine Oil Terminal ai Bombay 2. Kandla Port Project—First stage (construction of 4 berths and Auxiliary equipment). 3. Development of ‘B’ Berth King George’s Dock into a general cargo berth and conversion of ‘C’ berth into an oil berth at Cal 900 00 cutta. 4 Development of ‘D’ berth King George’s Dock into a general cargo berth at Calcutta 5. Suction dredger at Calcutta.

Skilled Manpower (c) whether the non-official insti tutions will also be associated in the 12S7. Sardar Iqbal Singh; Will the execution of this plan; and Minister of Labour and Employment be pleased to state: (d) if so, in what manner. (a) whether a plan has been pre pared to augment the supply of skill The Deputy Minister of Labour ed manpower In this country; (Shri Abid All): (a) Yes, there Is (b) if so, the main features of this a plan to augment the existing facili Plan; ties for the training of craftsmen; 3907 W ritten Answer* 1 SEFTIMBSR 1*58 Writtai* A v tW tn ^

(b) The capacity lor training it modities Act, 1965. Under thil Order, beta* increased by (1) 20,000 aaata in the Controller of Non-Ferrous Metals* Institutes and (2) 7,000 seats in appointed for thig purpose, has been industry. empowered to acquire ail imported copper for equitable distribution (c) and (d). Yea; existing facilities among all actual users, big and small, in private institutes and in private on the basis of past consumption industry are also improved and ex figures of the metal. panded for augmenting the supply of craftsmen. Cinematographic Film aad Sound Supply of Copper Recording Equipment 1238. Sardar Iqbal Singh: Will the 1239. Sardar Iqbal StBgh: Will the Minister of Commerce and industry Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: be pleased to state:

(a) whether the Industries nre (a) the total footage and value of facing any difficulties in getting the Cinematographic film (raw and ex supply of copper; and posed) imported during 1957-58; and (b) if so, the steps taken by Gov (b) the value of sound-recording ernment to ensure the proper and and projection equipment imported timely supply of copper to Industries? during the same period? The Minister of Commerce and In dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): The Minister of Commerce and (a) Yes, Sir. Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): (a) and (b). A statement showing (b) The supply and price of Copper quantity and value of Cinematogra have been controlled under the Non- phic films—raw and exposed—Cine Ferrous Metals Control Order dated Projecting apparatus and sound re April 2, 1958, which was issued under cording apparatus imported into India the provisions of the Essential Com during 1957-58 is given below:—

Quantity as per unit Value in ‘ooo’ of R*.

Unit 1957-58 Qty. Val.

1. Cinematographic films not exposed. (i) Standard 35 m.m...... ‘ooo’ L. ft. 2,10,310 15,999 (ii) Sub-standard 35 m.m. » 57,707 4,120 2. Cinematographic films exposed whether developed or not. (1) Standard 35 nun. ‘ooo’ L. Ft. I5>4*a 4,399 («) Sub-standard 35 m.m. 99 M56 391 3. (i) Standard cine projecting apparatus below Qr. H. P. . . . Nos. 1,664 2,337 (n) Sub-standard cine projecting appara tus below Qr. H. P. Nos. 583 4«5 (w) Parts of cine projecting apparatus Val. 3,043 4. (0 Sound recording apparatus below Qr. H. P...... Nos, 218 564 (»0 Parts of sound recording apparatus. Val. 496 3909 Writteh Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1058 Written Answers 39XO

HbHpntUtMi by C.P.WD. tration of Company Act at the mini mum level; 1M9. Pandit D. N. Tiwary: Will the Minister of Works, Housing and Sup ply be pleased to state: (b) whether a statement specifying (a) the final result of the detailed the total amount of cost in the ad investigations conducted on behalf of ministration of the Companies Act Special Police Establishment and during 1955-58, 1956-57, 1957-58 and A.G.C.R. regarding mal-practices by 1958-59 (estimated) will be laid on C.P.W.D. officials and contractors for the Table; and 7 major works in Delhi and outside (as mentioned on page 16 of the (e) the income from the fees charg Annual Report for 1957-58); ed under the Company Law during (b) the exact location of those the above four years? works; and (c) the nature of mal-practices in dulged in? The Minister of Commerce and In The Minister for Works, Housing dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): and Supply (Shri K. C. Reddy': (a) (a) An Economy Board under the The results of the detailed investiga Secretary Scrutinises all proposals tions conducted revealed execution of for expenditure including the filling works not conforming to Specifica up of vacant posts both for the Secre tions as per agreements in 4 out of 7 tariat and the field offices. Although cast's. In 2 eases, it was not possible, the organisation has to be adequately owing to lapse of time, to determine staffed for fulfilling the obligations exactly whether the work executed cast on it under the Companies Act, conformed to specifications. The only the minimum staff required for final conclusions in the remaining tliii, purpose consistent with the work case have not yet been arrived at and load ha:, been sanctioned. One of the the matter is still under investigation. five offices of Regional Directors vas (b) The works in question arc situ abolished towards the end of 1956 and ated in Guntakal and in and aiound considerable savings were effected. Delhi. For a small department charged with a new duly and responsibility cuts (c) The nature of mal-practices in establishment costs could not be generally, cover excessive quantity very considerable; but contingent ex billed for than that was actually used penditure has been reduced to the and inferior quality of materials t.sed minimum. in the works, thus not conforming to agreement specifications.

Company Law Administration (b) and (c). A statement showing the total cost of administration of 1241. Shri Damani: Will the Minis the Companies Act and total amount ter of Commerce and Industry be of fees realised thereunder during the pleased to state: years 1955-56, 1956-57, and 1957-58 as (a) what special efforts are being well as budget estimates of expendi made to keep the cost of the adminis ture for 1958-59 is given below:—

Budget Actuals Fees Year Estimates realised

1955-56 • • 21,52,900 ‘ 5,38,49* g g j g *956-57 • • 27,90,500 llKinaa 24,10,255 1957-58 • • 29,20,200 27,55,700 5 1956-59 * 29,97,000 O—ttfliHkm of Oyyynwiwrt Qawten CMm BHAMmt «a i tHIMtv «t ta Cftrctrtar R o d attenua Afta|n (Shri J.waJurtU 1*42 Shri 8»(1h» Raman: Will the (a) -The Govertattism ox the People’s Repnbflc of China h*v» *fe- Minister of Works, Boosing n d 8a** Spiy be pleased to state: cently notified new regtflfctkaS* governing the tours In the counfry by ta) whether it is a fact that Gov members of the diplomatic missions ernment quarters and Bungalows on accredited to China The new regoja- Circular Road opposite Asaf Ali Road tions in fact seem to be somewhat less are to be demolished and the land restrictive than the ones thus made available will be utilized previously for some purpose other than resi dential, (b) Does not arise (b) if so, what is the purpose; and (c) Yes They apply to all mem (c) what are the details of such a bers of foreign Missions including move and how long its implementa that of India tion will take?

The Minister of Works, Housing Government Presses and Supply (Shri K. C Reddy': (a) There is no such proposal at present 1245. Shri Daljit Singh: Will the Minister of Works, Housing and Sup (b) Does not arise ply be pleased to state (c) Does not arise (a) the total amount of work done Gramdan Movement In Orissa b y the Government Presses during 1957-58, and 1243 Shri Sanganna: Will the Minister of Planning be pleased to ( b ) the amount of expenditure in refer to the reply given to UnstaTred curred b y the Government Presses Question No 3386 on the 7th May, during the same period’ 1958 and state whether report of the officer who was sent to Koraput The Minister of Works, Housing and (Orissa) to study the Gramdan Move Supply (Shri K. C. Reddy): (a) The ment in that district will be laid on total work done by the Government the Table’ of India Presses during 1957-58 was The Deputy Minister of Planning as under (Shri S. N Mishra): A copy of the (l) Composition and Printing— report is laid on the Table of the Lok 8,98,565 pages in Royal 8 vo- Sabha [See Appendix III, annexure size involving 49,93,04,740 im No 110] pressions, besides the requi site stitching and binding in Restrictions on the Movements of Diplomats in China various styles and other pro cesses 1244 Shri Vajpayee: Will the Prime (n) 71,44,250 letter heads, and Minister be pleased to state (in) 8,30,35,697 envelopes of vari (a) whether it is a fact that the Government of People’s Republic of ous sizes China have imposed further restric tions on the movement of foreign dip (b) Rs 2,80,23,225 including the lomats in Peking; cost of paper and binding materials Overhead charges have been calculat (b ) if so, the nature thereof; and ed on the basis of figures for 1988-57 (e) whether the new restrictions as figures for 1957-58 have not yet apply to Indian diplomats as well’ bteen compiled. W m rn A m m m t M llfinW UM WH«*» A m rnm # 1 4

BKpNIt 4t 'AIMMB’ (lAptMk flMfc) separately In trfcde statistics and the iniormatioa require is therefor* not 1MI. S M iHPNMttha t e : WiU the available. Minister of CtMMne n d bdtutry be pleased to state: (c) No, Sir. (*) the total quantity of ‘ANNATTO’ (d) It is not used for dyeing tex (Japhra seed) exported in 1957; tiles, but is used mainly for colouring (b) the foreign exchange earned edible materials like butter, ghee, therefrom; margarine, cheese and chocolate. (c) whether any attempts have been made by Government to intensify the Educated Unemployed cultivation of this seed and step up exports; and 1247. Sardar Iqbal Singh: WiU the Minister of Labour and Employment (d) whether this seed has been tried be pleased to state the number of as a vegetable dye m India? educated unemployed in each state at present’ H ie Minister of Commerce and In dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): The Deputy Minister of Labour (a) and (b). Exports of 'ANNATTO' (Shri Abid Ali): The information is (Japhra seed) are not recorded given below—

No of educated applicants (matriculates and above) tate/Umoa Territory on the Live Registers of Em ployment Lxchanges as or 30-6- 1958. (0______(2) Andhra Pradesh 28,792 Assam 2,167 Bihar 9.996 Bombay 51,725 Delhi . 24,800 Himachal Pradesh 801 Kerala 37,439 Madhya Pradesh 8,131 Madras 28,862 Manipur 462 Mysore 15.154 Onssa . 2,487 Pondicherry 344 Punjab 16,961 Rajasthan 10,141 Tripura 720 Uttar Pradesh 50,350 West Bengal 44.355

A ll I n dia T otal 3.33,687

Film ‘Pardesi’ (b) if so, the name of Buch count-* ries’ f Sardar Iqbal Singh: The Prime Minister and Minuter of ^Lhri Shivananjappa: External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Will the Prime Minister be pleased Nehru): (a) and (b). The film "Pardesi” has failed to pass the to *tate: Censors in Singapore and Malay*. (#) whether some foreign Govenv- Information about other countries la ments have banned the film ‘Pardesi’ being collected and will be placed

fteptaftbig of State Plans tw w W p for Displaced fWKttte 1240. Sard&r Iqbal Singh: Will the *rai> / S**®** Singh: Minister ol Planning be pleased to \Shri Btbbotl Mtahra; state Will the Minister of Rehabilitation (a) whether Planning Commission and Minority Affairs be pleased to have informed State Governments re state garding the rephasmg of State Plans and (a) whether Government have con> sidered the future management of (b) if so, rephasmg programme of displaced persons townships of each State Plan’ Faridabad, Prem Nagar, Hastmapur and other such townships, and

The Deputy Minister of Planning (b) if so, the decision taken' (Shri S. N Mishra)- (a) ind (b) Soon after the meeting of the The Minister of Rehabilitation and National Development Council on Minority Affairs (Shri Melir Chand May 3 and 4, 1958, the decisions *aken Khanna). (a) and (b) A statement by the Council on this subject wert is laid on the Table of the L.ok Sabha convejed to the State Governments (See Appendix III, annexure No 120] They were requested to prepare esti mates of resources for the two years 1959— 61 A programme of discus Language used m Correspondence sions with State Finance Min stcr witn U S S il and China and Planning Ministers has been arranged. When these discus^i in* 1252 Shri Vajpayee Will the Prime have been completed, the results of Minister be pleased to state the reappraisal will be consideitd bv the National Development Council (a) the language used for corres- and its decisions placed before the pondnme with our countiy by th<» Parliament USSR China Hungary, Pound and Yugoslavia and

Slums Clearance (b) the language used by India m reply to correspondence received from f Sardar Iqbal Singh them’ 1250 -j Shn Supakar Shri Sarju Pandey The Prime Minister and Minister of External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Will the Mmistei of Works, Hous Nehru) (a) The languages used by ing and Supply be pleased to state the foreign Governments in corres steps taken by Central Government pondence with our Missions abroad to Implement recommendations con are as follows — tained in the Report of the Selected Buildings Projects Team on Slum USSR Russian Clearance’ Peoples’ Republic of China Chinese Tho Deputy Minister of Works, Hungary Hungarian & Housing and Supply (Shri Anil K English Chanda): The recommendations con tained in the Report of the Selected Poland Polish, sometimes Buildings Projects Team on Slum with translations Clearance are under the examination In French. of the Government of India in con Yugoslavia English or sultation with the State Governments frencK A m v * n I SKPTSMBER'ISM Written Answers 3918

The diplomatic Missions of all these Oi m b Tea countries in India in correspondence 1255. Shri Qbosal: 'Will the Minister with the Government of India use of Commerce and Industry be English, excepting that of the U S.S.R. pleased to state: which uses Russian with an unofficial translation in English. (a) whether green tea is produced in India; and (b) Replies from the Government (b) if so, where and what is the of India and Indian Missions abroad acreage? are sent in English. In fame cases, our Missions send also unofTlcial trans The Minister of Commerce and lations in the national languages of Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): the countries concerned. (a) Yes, Sir. (b) The acreage exclusively under Formal documents, like letters of green tea cannot be af-ccrtained accreditations etc., are seal in Hindi inasmuch as the same green leaf can be manufactured into either green tea Dacoits in Pakistan Police Uniform or black tr>a by merely adopting a difffrent process of manufacture. 1253. Shri Raghunath Singh: Will Kangra in Punjab and Mandi in the Prime Minister be pleased to Himaeha'1 Pradesh produce predomi state whether it is a fact tint Rajas nantly green tea The acreage under than Armed constabulary anested five tea in Kangra and Mandi on 31-3-1957 Pakistani dacoits who were ;n Pakis was 9,607 acres and 1,046 acres res tani Police uniform at Shaipura of pectively Ganganagar District on th'' 'ith July, 1958 night’ Distribution of Raw Films

The Prime Minister and Minister of 125(i. Sardar Iqbal Singh: Will the External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal Minister of Commerce and Industry Nehrn): On the night of 7/ilth July, be pleased to state. 1958, five Pakistani armed dacoits fa) the number of full length films crossed into Indian ternto>y m Dis and features produced by the Films trict Ganganagar, Rajasthan Four of Division and private film producers in them wi re arrested by the Rajasthan the last five years; Armed Constabulary but on'’ escaped. (b) the total length of raw films given to the private producers and the Films Division; Delhi Bhoodan Yagua Art (c) whether any preferential treat ment has been given to the Fi'lms 1254. Shri Jadhav: Will the Division in the allotment of raw Minister of Planning be pleased to films; state the amount of land donated in the Delhi Territory under the Delhi (d) whether this treatment has hit Bhoodan Yagna Act, 1955? hard the private producers; and (e) the reasons for this and the The Deputy Minister of Planning steps taken in the matter? (Shri S. N. Mishra): According to the information furnished by the Akhil The Minister of Commerce and Bharat Sarva Seva Sangh, 396 acres Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): had been received in Bhoodan in the (a) Number of full length films and Delhi area' upto December 31,1957. The features produced by Films Division Delhi Bhoodan Act came into force on during the last five years was four. May 1, 1958 and verification and con Precise information regarding the firmation of the bhoodan donations films produced by private film pro under the Act have yet to take place. ducers is not available. However, the* number of fiiau awttftd by the Cen tral Board of Film Censors for public exhibition during th# £exio& 1893 to fosrft tow reft ? 1*157 is 1,5*4. ^wf*w w t vtfhr f t f t (tft tiw (b) Tbere « u no dirtribatlon con trol on raw films prior to the 2Gtti W$»|T5TWftJ : tfm v x September, 1957. The total length of f «nr *nr sm * ftwriydre raw film distributed after that date up |W : — to 31-3-1958 is as follows:

Private Producers 53 45 m. Ft. Film Division O' 7 m. Ft.

(c) to (e). Only some ad hoc releases of raw films were made to the Films Division to meet their imme Y o X ^ diate requirements in April 1958 and V oV )( this did not affect the total number of productions by private film producers UK* (snr^O-^) in the 7 months of current year when ( ^ T r P T v T ) compared with that m the year 1957. The quota of raw films has also been raised from 40 per cent, to 60 per cent. General and Soft and the require «rm fwTK w ments of the Films Division are now largely being met from imports m * . : W «r*T arranged by the State Trading Cor a ft fw .T ?a ? srtt vt frTT poration. fa :

rrsTFTR ? TTT WK 3TH sftT (n ) t r t ^qff # *fptf e n s fa r ^rfcRr *T STFff frt *TPT i T O J R f w W ? f o m r ;

s m ift f ?r

( y ) w araff 3 $ i grw f*m cfr Jr* «tr f* r *«rcn?r *r * m *rr«r *rsf Vfi # i 5'RltT *PT t w mWwl TT ^f*TT wnr

***«;, w < r : w « w : { * ) i * 9 3 1 -Written 4«MMr» 1 SEPTXUUB MW Written Amman 3 *3

(#) U&V 4ta* W* ^ 'U Iran O n l i w w u t with Ja*an * m » f Shri Vajpayee; J Shri Panifrahi; { * ) * t Shri Assar: (w ) ?rtr*r»r % {'Shri S. Das Gayta: ***ftawiTf ^farflr if ^rfrwerr Will the Minister of Commerce and * t i X* % tfUftfrr*, «rW 4t ($ rc - Industry be pleased to refer to the reply given to Starred Question No. w nnft) J*r*r, «r*f

(*) £?,^AU «tW t # s?nr The Minister of Commerce and farcrrarr i Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): The agreement reached contains the U .^A*^ srrsft ^ 't *r details of a business contract which f*rat t are normally treated as confidential by all business organisations. I trust the Hon’ble Members will bear with Indian High Commission at Dacca me if I try to adopt this business prac 1260. Sardar Iqbal Singh: Will the tice in regard to the business con Prime Minister be pleased to state: tracts of the State Trading Corpora tion. (a ) whether the members of Indian High Commission at Dacca are shad owed by the Pakistan Security Police; Treatment of T.B.-hit Miners and (b) if so, whether Government of 1263. Sardar Iqbal Singh: Win the India has drawn the attention of the Minister of Labour and Employment Government of Pakistan to this be pleased to state: matter? (a) whether Government have The Prime Minister and Minister of sponsored a scheme for domiciliary External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal treatment to the coal mine workers Nehru): (a) Yes, Sir. suffering from T.B.; and (b) A protest was lodged with the TSast Pakistan Government but they (b) if so, the details of this scheme? have denied that this was being done The Deputy Minister of Labour Manufacture of Automobile Tyres (Shri Abid A li): (a) and (b). A 1261. Sardar Iqbal Singh: Will the scheme for domiciliary treatment to Minister of Commerce and Industry the coal mine workers suffering from^ be pleased to refer to the reply given T.B. in the coalfields of Bihar and. to Unstarred Question No. 1066 on the Bengal, who do not get admission 10th March, 1958 and state the prog either in the T.B. Clinics of the Coal ress made so far in regard to each of Mines Labour Welfare Fund or the the schemes licensed for the manu various Sanatoria where beds have facture of Automobile tyres in India? been reserved by the Fund, has been sanctioned on the 12th June, 1958 for The Minister of Commerce and a period of six months as an experi Industry (Shri 1*1 Bahadur Shastri): mental measure. The number of A statement is laid on the Table of patients to be brought under the the Bouse. [See Appendix III, scheme will for the present be limit* sataextae No. 1211. ed to 800. 39 * i W ritten Answers 1 SEPTEMBER 1998 W ritten Answers 3 9 3 4

2. Under the scheme, the following Foremen Ptim V n l u m payments will be made in respect of persons who are given domiciliary 1264 Sardar Iqbal Singh: Will the treatment-— Minister of Information and Broad* casting be pleased to state: (1) A grant-in-aid for special diet at rates up to a maximum of (a) the names of the foreign pro Rs 50 pm per coal mine ducers who have been allowed to worker suffering from T B bhoot their film;, m India during 1957- m the said coalfields, and 58 and 1958-59 so far, and (11) subsistence allowance to such workers up to a maximum (b) the names of such films’ limit of Rs 50 per patient per month where the patient hap The Minister of Information and pens to be the only earning Broadcasting (Or. Keskar): (a) and member of the family (b) Since there is no control on the production of films in India, it is not 3 Payments of grant-m-aid and possibk to furnrh precise informa subsistence allownce will be made on tion about th( names of fmcign pro the recommendations of a Committee duct rs who shot films m India during consisting of the Coal Mine, Welfare anv pirt.cului period The following Commmionei and the two Superin film companies v.ere, on requests re- tendents of Central Hospitals at c c i <. cl fiom them, granted facilities Dhanbad and Asansol f( 1 shooting films —

of Company Naru of film

1957- 5R

1 Ms McrihinPriihicf ons I K 11 irrv JJhck 2 M s R ink Org.ii isd’ 1 ms U *\X 1 id (. 1111 >1 R iu 3 M s O l>sst\ Pioi 1 ion I S \ ‘VC il i LiU 1958-59 (so fai)

1 M's r/tn P ro lj^ in s Intern 11 'nal, U A 1 ilm on ‘M ilutmi Gan llu*

The grant of facilities involved no (r) whether it is a fact that the expenditure to Government local v recruited staff especially the foreign nationals are retained in ser Staff of the Indian High Commission vice while Indian nationals are trans in London ferred or retrenched as a measure of economy, and 1265. Shri Jadhav Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state (d) whether the locally recruited employees m the Indian Embassies (a) whether it is a fact that the abroad pay Income-Tax or similar India-based members of the staff in taxes to the Governments of the les- the Indian High Commission in pective countries’ London have complained of discrimi nation regarding service conditions, The Prime Minister and Minister of External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal (b) what are the scales of pay and Nehrn): (a) No rate of dearness allowance or other allowances in existence for India (b) A statement is laid on the based clerical staff and locally recruit Table of the House [See Appendix III, ed clerical staff; anexure No 122] 39X5 Written A n sw ers 1 SEPTEMBER 1988 Written Answer* 3926

(c) No. It is & fact that since the Sheet Glass cost of a locally recruited member of the staff is less, it has been decided or 1288. Shri Subbiah Aafealam: Will proposed as an economy measure that the Minister of Commerce and Indus certain posts hitherto held by India* try be pleased to state: baaed staff should hereafter be held (a) the annual requirements of by locally recruited staff. In such sheet glass in India; cases, however, the India-based staff concerned is transferred to other sta (b) the names of glass industries tions and the question of retrench manufacturing sheet glass, their ment does not arise. installed capacity and the actual pro duction; and (d) The desired information is being collected and will be placed on (c) how the cost of production of the Table of the House when receiv sheet glass compares with the import ed. ed sheet glass? The Minister of Commerce and Handlooms Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): 1266. Shri Sadhu Ram: Will the (a) The present demand of sheet Minister of Commerce and Industry glass in the country is about CO mil be pleased to state: lion sq. feet.

(a) the total number of handlooms (b) The names and installed capa installed during the year 1957-58 cities of various sheet glass manufac State-wise; and turing units are given in Statement ‘A’ laid on the Table of the Hcuse. (b) the quantity of cloth produced [See Appendix III, annexure No. 124]. by them? The production of sheet glass during 1957 was 54 21 million sq. ft. and dur The Minister of Commerce and ing January-June, 1958, 36-21 million Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): sq. ft. (a) Information is not available. (c) The comparison of fair ex- (b) Does not arise. works price of indigenous sheet glass as estimated by the Tariff Commission Indian Trade Delegation in their Report (1957) on the Industry with the c.i.f. price of imported glass 1267. Shri Sadhn Ram: Will the is given in the Statement ‘B’ laid on Minister of Commerce and Industry the Table of the House. [See Appen be pleased to state: dix III, annexure No 124]. (a) the total number of Indian Trade Delegations which visited foreign countries during the year Trade with U.S.SJt. 1957; 1269. Shri Raghunath Singh: Will (b) the countries they visited; the Minister of Commerce and Indus (c) the outcome of their visit; and try be pleased to state: (d) the expenditure incurred on (a) whether Indian markets are favourably impressed by the Soviet these delegations? goods; and l% e Minister of Commerce and (b) if so, what is the balance of Industry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): trade during 1957-58? (a) to (d). A statement giving the requisite information is l3id on the The Minister of Commerce and In Table of the House. [See Appendix dustry (Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri): m , annexure No. 123]. (a) Government are not aware of any 393* Mctfe* ** AdiSwm* 1 IW1T1— tm. .MotUtm fix Adtjourw» 39*» men* ment

particular complaint in respect of the A t MMator «f Cm u m t m » « goods imported from the Soviet Inteatry (Bturi Lai Batautar Shastri) *. Union. Ye*.

As the hon. Members are well (b) The trade positionbetween aware, due to serious foreign ex India and the U.S.S.R.during 1957 change difficulties, drastic reductions and 1958 is as given below: have had to be effected on imports even in respect of essential commodi (Rupees in Lakhs) ties resulting in shortages in supply within the country. The position in 1957 1958 regard to the supply of steel during the current year has been parti (Jan.-May) cularly acute. The total availability Imports 2,268 1206 during the current year will be of Exports 1,753 76? the order of about 2 million tons as Balance of trade (—) 515 — >441 against about 3 million tons during each of the preceding two years. On the other hand, the demand for steel from the engineering industries has been growing fast and could not have been met m full even if the supplies 12 b n , had been maintained at last year’s level. The problem of steel, is there fore, one of demand far outstripping MOTIONS FOR ADJOURNMENT the available supply. All possible efforts are, however being made to make the most advantageous use of L a y - o f f o f W o r k e r s i n B u r n & C o the available supplies, and towards this end, a number of steps have al ready been taken. Details of these Mr. Speaker: On the 28th August, are given m the statement which I 1958, Shrimati Renu Chakravartty am laying on the Table of the House. and others gave notice of the follow I would only add that arrangements ing adjournment motion, decision on are being made in co-ordination with which was postponed for today: the Ministries of Labour, Steel and Railways as well as the State Gov ernment of West Bengal to convene “ Senous situation arising out a tripartite meeting comprising of 1135 skilled workers of prem representatives of labour, industry ier engineering firm Messrs. and the State and Central Govern Bum & Co., Howrah, being laid ments to look into the question relat off resulting in creating a situa ing to th ^ lay-off of labour and to tion where priority orders in consider how best this problem could wagon building and steel fabrica be tackled. Further, Government tion for Plan core projects at also propose to constitute an inter- Bhilai and Durgapur have been Ministerial Committee at Secretaries’ stopped and there is threatened en level to plan out a long-term pro masse closure facing the Engineer gramme for the placement of such ing Industry as a whole in and orders as are possible to fabricate around Calcutta.” within the country, for the core pro jects and also to plan the supplies of raw materials required for such That is the text of the adjournment orders. It is expected that this step motion. Does the Minister of Com which is being taken as a result o f merce and Industry propose to make consideration over a period of time a statement in this matter? would lead to effective co-ordination, you Hotkm for Adiwm- \ SEPTJEKRPR }BM. M for A d fa tm - 3 4 * 0 TMnt went so that difilcultie* w have arisen, in Aft a result of the meetings held tbds partietjlar instance, do not recur, already, the Im* and Steel Con troller is examining as to what I may also inform the House that extent the indigenous-supply could the Labour Department of the West be maximised to meet the require Bengal Government is currently ments during the intervening looking into tbe case' of Messrs. period. One difficulty in this con Bum & Co., and certain discussions nection is that Tatas are the only with the representatives of the indigenous producers supplying workers have already taken place. plates; their production of plate The final outcome of these negotia has been practically halved since tions is awaited. I will also read April last on account of the out the statement re: supply of steel re-vamping of the plate mill. The to engineering industries: position was further aggravated by the recent strike in Tatas and “The general position in regard the consequent loss of production. to the supply of steel to the engi Even now, 50 per cent, of the plate neering industries as a whole has supplies is being made available already been mentioned to the to wagon builders, and the Iron House. The position of the wagon- and Steel Controller is now trying building and structural units has, to see if this proportion cannot be however, been less difficult than increased to the greatest extent that of other steel using units, possible even by diversion from for the reason that most of the other top priority users. orders from the former class of units have a high priority. Even Two other lines of immediate so, the position is not uniform in assistance that are also being the matter of supply of steel as explored by the Iron and Steel between the different wagon build Controller are, firstly, to obtain a ing and fabricating units. The very detailed inventory of the mam difficulty is not merely the stocks of materials in all categories general shortage of steel, but even held by different firms, to see to more, a shortage m certain cate what extent a re-distribution gories. In view of this position, between them could bring about meetings were held both by the an improvement in their day-to- Iron and Steel Controller in Cal day working. Towards this end, cutta and m the Ministry of Com meetings had already been con merce and Industry in New Delhi vened with the representatives of with the representatives of the all the firms concerned, and further firms concerned, as well as the action is being expedited. Secondly, representatives from the concerned it is also being examined as to Ministries to see as to what extent what extent, certain categories of the position could be remedied on steel arriving from Russia and an immediate basis. The position West Germany could be diverted that has emerged from these dis to these units either for wagon cussions is somewhat like this. building or other structural work. Excepting in the case of Burn & Co., Howrah, the other wagon The position, therefore, is that building and structural companies while we are admittedly faced in this region have enough stocks with a very difficult situation on to carry them on till November. account of the acute shortage of It is expected that orders placed steel, everything possible is being by the Railway Board in Japan done to relieve the situation by under the D.L.F. programme will such adjustments as are possible begin flowing in towards the end on the lines mentioned above.” o f this year. The real difficulty ia, therefore, between now and [This statement was also laid on the the end of the year. Table]. 3931 Motion for Adjourn* 1 SKPTSMBXft 1068. .Motion for Adjourn- m ** ment ment Sbri Prabhat Kar (Hooghly): May Shri Tangiaanl (Madurai): Thera I aay something on this adjournment is also my adjournment motion, what* motion? the wording is different.

Mr. Speaker: I am not going to Mr. Speaker: All right. I am glad allow a speech now. then. Nothing is gained by casting aspersions. If there is a serious default Shri Prabhat Kar: It is only on a on the part of Government, certainly, matter of clarification. The Minister I shall give consent, and they may has said that there will be a tripartite have the adjournment motion discus conference on this matter between sed. the representatives of labour, indus try, the West Bengal Government Shri V. P. Nayar (Quilon): May I and the Central Government. He explain? At that time, I could not has also informed us that the Labour get another word. It is open to you Department of West Bengal is look to correct the wording. ing into this matter. Will the Minis Mr. Speaker: Is it contended that ter kindly ask the West Bengal hon. Members must take liberties to Government to see that the cases of use their own words, and it is for me the 1135 odd workers may not be to go on correcting them from time to decided finally until this tripartite time? I am really surprised. Hon. conference has finalised matters? Members must use such language as would be befitting and would show Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri: The that we are conducting the proceed West Bengal Government are fully ings in an orderly manner. seized of the matter. But if the hon. Member so desires, I have no objec Has the Minister in charge to say tion to referring that particular point something? to the Labour Department of the Shri Tangamanl: May I make a West Bengal Government. submission? Mr. Speaker: In view of the state Mr. Speaker: I shall read out his ment of the hon. Minister, I do not adjournment motion: think it is necessary to give consent to this adjournment motion. “Situation in Pondicherry following Chief Commissioner's

A lleged b r e a k - d o w n o f constitution refusal to accept majority group'1. a l MACHINERY IN PONDICHERRY Accept majority group? Very well, Mr. 8peaker I have received notice whatever it might be, this is the ad of another adjournment motion from journment motion. Shri V. P. Nayar, which reads as Shri Tangmmani: May I make a follows: submission? The Pondicherry Coun “The situation arising out of the cil...... failure of the Chief Commissioner Mr. Speaker: It is clear already. of Pondicherry to accept the The notice of adjourment motion is names submitted by the majority there. I am only trying to ascertain party in the Assembly for nomi facts from Government in order to nation as Councillors and the enable me to decide whether it is consequent break-down of the urgent or is of recent occurrence. 1 Constitutional machinery due to am asking the Minister. If I have a the manoeuvres of the Govern doubt, I shall call the hon. Member. ment of India and the Chief Com 8hri Tangamanl: May I make a sub missioner.” mission to show the urgency, because I would urge all hon. Members not to this Pondicherry Council was formed, use such language as ‘manoeuvres’ and and there was the majority party, and the like. this breakdown has been continuing 3933 Mctfons /or AHJOttm- X StPTEMBBR 1958. .Motion for Adjourn- 3 9 3 4 fn m t ment lo r the last three months? On the least should be elected and three nomi 26th August, there was a meeting nated. But as a matter of fact, our following the resignation of the chair Chief Commissioner has normally man, and the meeting was specially asked them to suggest 6 names, that is, convened lor the election of the Chair the full number, although he need not man, and Mr. Dasamma was elected as have done so. This is the broad back the chairman, and afterwards, a group ground. has been formed consisting of 22 out o f 88, and Mr. Chandrasekhara Chettiar has submitted a panel of Certain rather odd things have names for the Ministership there happened recently, to which reference Now, the situation has arisen actually was made by the hon. Member. I following the Chief Commissioner, think the Council consists of 39 mem Shri Kripalani’s refusing to accept this bers and it was divided up between group on certain grounds. This group two groups Lately, a number of has already stated that it is for imple members of group one, which was in menting the Second Five Year Plan, a big majority, left it and sort of hung it is also for the extension of the in the air between the two groups— Central laws to Pondicherry pending dissidents So there were three the de jure transfer, and also for groups, not one of the groups having urging the Government to expedite a majority. I think the numbers were the de jure transfer. 16, 9 and 11—or something like that. (interruption). It was 16, 11, 11, but two of them have again shifted. There is a specific proposal which has been placed. The first indication was that this Council will be accepted So the members of this Assembly in If this Council is not accepted, then Pondicherry apparently for the sake of what would happen is that because, exercise go from one side to the other unlike the Assemblies in other places, frequently, with the result that the this Assembly meets only once or poor Chief Commissioner does not twice a month and that too, for a few quite know what the position is. hours, even the minimum control which this C ' incil was having over the Administration of Pondicherry will In fact, another odd thing happened come to a stop. That is the urgency. here. A meeting was held for election of the President of the Assembly. I am not going into details, but the The Prime Minister and Minister of Chairman of that meeting, who is External Affairs (Shri Jawaharlal supposed to be the oldest member, for Nehru): I am not aware of any consti some reason which he thought tutional machinery having broken adequate, adjourned the meeting for down or there being any danger of its three or four days for further consi breaking down. The Council, to which deration. Having adjourned it, he and reference has been made, acts in an some others left the meeting. There advisory capacity to the Chief Com after, however, the meeting wa< conti missioner in regard to subjects dele nued by others and they elected a new gated to it by the Chief Commissioner President altogether, not a new Chair Naturally, we have preferred the man I cannot, for the moment, say Council to function for a variety of whether they were right or wrong reasons. Sometimes it has not func Normally speaking, when a meeting tioned in the past for sometime. Is adjourned by the Chairman, it is adjourned. Whether he has done so This Council came into existence by rightly or wrongly—it may be chal a French decree passed, I think, a few lenged later—the remaining people days before our independence. cannot carry on. It is a matter of law According to that, the Council is in which we are consulting our legal formed, of whidh three members at officers about the situation that has 1*9 L S D -4. 3*35 Motion* fo r Adjourn- 1 SEPTEMBER 1988 Motion for A d jou rn - dttM n tW

[Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] arisen. I am not, for the moment, pre wise, is there any provision there that pared to say what the correct position the Chief Commissioner cannot carry would be. on without the assistance of these Councillors? Then comes this question of Coun cillors. The old Councillors having Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Their func resigned, a request was made by this tion is advisory. He has carried on in dissident group plus another group the past for months without them. that they should supply the names of the 6 Councillors. The Chief Com missioner enquired of them—naturally Mr. Speaker: Therefore, there is he wanted to know—whether this no breakdown. Law and order is group was a cohesive group, whether being maintained. it was a party or not, because he knew two parties and a third which had Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: There is no arisen, which had shifted about its question of breakdown. allegiance this way and that. He wanted to be assured about its cohesiveness—was it a party with a Shri V. P. Nayar: The Prime Minis majority or not? To that, all that they ter tells us that legal opinion is being said was ‘We have agreed to put for taken. As far as I understand, the ward these six names’. Further, as a procedural matters are dealt with matter of arrangement between them, according to the French law. What is the six names were really put forward the purpose of the Government of by the 10 persons who were dissidents. India taking legal opinion? Is it going to be decided on the basis of The Chief Commissioner thought it Indian law or is it going to be decided odd that 10 persons should choose six on the applicability of French rules of themselves for the Council, presum which are in force in respect proce ably as a matter of bargain with the dural matters, as that will decide the others. He said that he would like to issue think over this, about which is the majority and which is not As a I want also to know whether in such matter of fact, he referred the matter cases when the President had adjourn to us and we are taking legal advice ed the meeting under the rules in in the matter as to what the proper force there, they could convene a procedure should be. meeting and have a valid election. Apart from this, just at this period, All my efforts to the French rules in in the last few days, there has been a the Pondicherry administration in our change of the Chief Commissioner. Library have been in vain. The old Chief Commissioner has retired after his full term of service Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Obviously, and the new man has jut.1 taken the legal opinion would be based on charge Because of all this, matter the laws which are being observed was referred to us, and it is being there, whatever they may be, French considered. law plus others plus nctural law, There is no constitutional breakdown common law, practice and so on taken at all. When we have got legal together. advice, we shall take such steps as are within the Constitution and the law Mr. Speaker: In view of the state and are considered fit and proper. ment of the hcyj. Prime Minister, I Mr. Speaker: There is a provision do not think there is any urgency for here that the President can act only this and I do not give my consent to with the assistance of Ministers. Like this adjournment motion. 3957 Estate D uty 1 SEPTEMBER 1988 ( Amendment) Bill 3938

12.1? to*. made to the House on the 11th August, 1958:— PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE 1. The Appropriation (Railways) Statement on Indo-Pakistan canal No. 3 Bill, 1958. WATOt DISpCTK . 2. The Ancient Monuments and . The Minister of Irrigation and Archaeological Sites and Re Power (Hails Mohammad Ibrahim): I mains Bill, 1958. beg to lay on the Table a copy of the statement regarding latest developments on the Indo-Pakistan Canal Water Dispute. [Placed in 12.18 hrs. Library. S ee No. LT-877/58.] DELHI RENT CONTROL BILL A m e n d m e n t s t o C o t t o n T e x t il e s The Minister of Home Affairs (P r o d u ctio n b y H a n d l o o m ) C o n (Pandit G. B. Pant): I beg to move t r o l O rder for leave to introduce a Bill to pro vide for the control of rent and evic The Minister of Commerce (Shri tion, and for the lease of vacant pre Kanungo): I beg to lay on the Table, mises to Government in certain areas under sub-section (6) of Section 3 of in the Union Territory of Delhi. the Essential Commodities Act, 1955, a copy of each of the following Noti Mr. Speaker: The question is: fications making certain further amendments to the Cotton Textiles “That leave be granted to (Production by Handloom) Control introduce a Bill to provide for the Order, 1956:— control of rent and eviction, and for the lease of vacant premises (i) S.O. No 1339 dated the 12th to Government in certain areas in July 1958; the Union Territory of Delhi"

(ii) SO. No. 1594 dated the 9th The motion was adopted. August 1958. | Placed in Library See No LT-876/58]. Pandit G. B. Pant: I introduce the Bill.

12.17J hrs. AMENDMENTS TO REGULATIONS FOR ELECTIONS TO COMMITTEES 12.19 hrs. Sardar Hukam Singh (Bhatinda): I ESTATE DUTY (AMENDMENT) beg to lay on the Table copy of BILL—contd each of the Amendments made hy the Speaker to Regulations 2, 7, 13. 15. 19 Mr. Speaker: The House will now and 21 of the Regulations for holding resume clause by clause consideration of elections to Committees by moans of the Estate Duty, (Amendment) Bill of the single transferable vole as reported by the Select Committee. Out of 5 hours allotted to this Bill, 50 minutes now remain. Clause 2 was 12.173 hrs. adopted on the 30th August 1958. The House may now resume dis PRESIDENT’S ASSENT TO BILLS cussion of clause 3. Pandit Thakur Secretary: Sir, I lay on the Table Das Bhargava may kindly continue the following two Bills passed by the his speech on amendment No. 25 Houses of Parliament during the cur moved by him the other day. The rent session and assented to by the balance of time is 50 minutes—say, President since a report was last one hour. 3 9 3 9 Estate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 (Amendment) Bill jff/p Shri Prabhat Kar (Hooghly): In service etc. of the Appellate Control view of the fact that so many clauses ler. In the original Act, we had only have to be taken up, may I suggest controllers so lar as Estate Duty was that the time may be extended? concerned. Now, we have got a**-, other officer, the Appellate Controller. ’ Mr. Speaker: The original time What I submitted yesterday was that allotted was 4 hours. We extended it I congratulated the Government for to 5 hours. appointing these Appellate Controllers just as there are Appellate Cotantia- Shri M. R. Masani (Ranchi-East): sioners in Income-tax. I never sub- If I may make a submission, the mitted ihat the Appellate Controllers time originally allotted was 3| hours are not judicial officers. They are in for general discussion and 1 } hours the same sense judicial officers as the for the clause by clause stage. It is Appellate Commissioners. What I true that the general discussion went want to contend is that they ja*y over the allotted time. But may I become much more judicial officers if urge that the 1} hours for clause by the Board wishes that in addition to clause consideration might not be the provision that such Appellate shortened, as otherwise it may not be Controllers shall not be subject to adequate for the discussion? such orders, directions and instructions as will interfere with the exercise of Mr. Speaker: We will have half an their appellate functions. It further hour more. agrees that they should not be subject to itself in regard to conditions of Wej have adopted a convention in service. Therefore, any reference by this House that whenever the House the hon. Finance Minister to adminis does not sit on any day in the week, trative officer., in America and other/ it sits on Saturday. Likewise, when countries becomes irrelevant, because ever we extend the time on any sub we have already seen that this De ject on any day, we will sit after 5 partment has appointed judicial p.m. to that extent so that the exten officers What I wanted to contend sion of time will finish off there. was that these judicial officers should not look to the Central Board of Shri Frabhat Kar: Today we have Revenue for promotion etc. They a half-hour discussion. should not feel that if they accept too many appeals they may be transferred Mr. Speaker: We will sit for an to a place where they may not have other half-hour. I would like to finish all the amenities of life or that their the work every day, whatever time promotion might be stopped. I only may be allotted. In exceptional cir submit that their conditions of service cumstances, it may go to some other should be a bit different. day.

The Minister of Parliamentary There is another argument. It is Affairs (Shri Satya Narayan Sinha): that in this cadre there may not be It is not necessary that we sit after too many persons and therefore the 5.30 today. chances of promotion will be very few It us a moot question whether Mr. Speaker: If the Government is these Appellate Controllers should willing to allow this time to be belong to the Finance Department. 1 taken up the next day, I have no would rather like that this Cadre of objection. I wanted to aid Govern officers should be subordinate to the ment. High Court and their promotions etc., just like those of other judicial Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava officers, may be subject to the juris (Hissar): I had moved my amend diction of the High Court. That ment in relation to the conditions of would take away this objection also- Estate Duty 1* SEPTEMBER 1986 (Amendment) Bill 3943

This objection can be met in other advanced by the hon. Minister for say* ways also by Government. They may ing that this reform cannot be made. m y that there are other ways open to the officers for promotion. I think the will to do is not there. If the will is there it can be done very easily and there will be no difficulty. My only point is that the Appellate As I submitted previously, an attempt Controller is the first judicial officer. was made but the department did not I may tell the hon. Minister that I agree. I wish the hon. Minister would am not complaining that these officers rise above the wishes of the depart are not behaving rightly. They are ment in this matter and give satisfac behaving rightly but there will be tion to the general public. The depart much more confidence. In other ment will become much more popular countries the assessees go to the if they accept this reform. Income-tax officers with the confi dence that they will be treated accord So far as the High Courts and the ing to law. We want that our assessees Supreme Court are concerned, they should also feel like that and they are concerned only with questions of should also have the same confidence. law, cropping up in these cases. But For this purpose, this first judicial the Appellate Controller is the first officer should not look up to the judicial officer who deals with facts. C.B.R, for promotion etc. That is a Therefore, my submission is that, on point which I submitted for considera these grounds, this amendment should tion. be accepted. The Minister of Revenue and Civil I should also like to refer to article Expenditure (Dr. B. Gopala Reddi): 50 of the Constitution in which it is Sir, I am unable to accept this amend said that the Government should take ment since it was considered at great steps for the separation of the judici length in the Select Committee also. ary from the executive. I may also It is purely a revenue and adminis refer to another provision, section 556 trative matter and not much of a of the Code of Criminal Procedure judicial matter and we want to follow which states that officers of a parti the general pattern of revenue adminis cular department cannot hear cases tration. After all, as I said, we are relating to crimes against that likely to get about Rs. 21 crores or so. particular department because they While in the Income-tax Act, the are deemed to be interested in it. Wealth Tax Act, the Expenditure Tax Since these officers remain officers Act and in the Gift Tax Act we follow of the income-tax department, they a particular pattern, it is not the have to think that they must look intention of Government to follow up to the Board for promotion another pattern in this Estate Duty. etc. They may be mistaken. It All the revenue Acts must follow the may be an unconscious bent of same pattern. Whatever obtains in mind that if they behave in a parti Income-tax and other taxes must also cular way they cannot get promotion obtain in Estate Duty. etc. But the fact is there. The hon. Finance Minister also thought that There are about 2 or 3 officers going these officers do not think in that way to be appointed as Appellate Control and that they do not like that they lers and there is again an appeal to should be subordinate to some other the usual Tribunals. Therefore, at authority. I had many conversations this stage, it is not desirable to keep with these officers and I must say that these officers under the High Court or tiie officers would very much like to the Supreme Court. We do want them be subject to the High Court than to to be fair-minded and judicial-minded; ttst C.B.R. for promotion etc. There but they must be under the C.B.R. fore, no good raason has been The aggrieved party can always go to Estate Duty 1 SKPTUCBKR (Amendment) Bill

[Dr. 8 . Gopala Reddi] the Appellate Tribunals. We want the I am really surprised that there ^ra general pattern of income-tax to be a dozen whips and yet they leave Ihe the pattern here. entire responsibility of making the motion, supporting the Bill and ulti Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I do mately carrying it through also on not want this in Estate Duty alone. the shoulders of the hon. Minister. I have been urging that in Income-tax The Secretaries and other persons and other taxes the pattern should be belonging to the party must be able this and...... to assist the hon. Minister. There is Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: But income- no use leaving the hon. Minister alone. tax is not now under consideration At least let me have more than one voice for ‘Ayes'. In future, if I hear Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava; It is one ‘Aye’ alone, I will say the ‘Noes' only a pattern taken from the income- have it tax...... (Amendment of section Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Let us follow 9) the usual practice and let us think of amending all the other Acts later on. Shri L. Achaw Singh (Inner Mani That is a different matter. pur): Sir, I beg to move— Mr. Speaker: Is it necessary to put Page 2,— the amendment to the vote of the after lint' 36, add— House? ‘ (a) in sub-section ( 1) for the Some Hon. Members: The hon words ‘‘two years’’ the words “five Member does not press it. years” shall be substituted:’ Mr. Speaker: Is the hon Member not pressing it’ The period of two years provided in the present Bill is absolutely inade Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I quate The Taxation Enquiry Com want that this might be put to the mission has recommended that the vote of the House. original Act should be amended so that it can bring this into line with Mr. Speaker: Then, 1 will put it to the law of other countries and I do the vote of the House. The question is: not know why the Select Committee has rejected the proposal which was Page 2, line 35,— provided m the original Bill. I sub mit that the change will deprive the add at the end— Government of a substantial amount “and the Appellate Controllers of revenue. In England, the period of shall not be subject to the Board five years is provided for charitable in the matter of their transfers, gifts. I do not know why we should promotions and othor conditions not profit by the experience of those of service.” who have found it to be effective. I would, therefore, request the Govern The motion was negatived. ment to accept my amendment. Mr. Speaker: Now, the question is' Mr. Speaker: The amendment is “That clause 3 stand part of the before the House. Bill.” The motion toas adopted. Shri Prabhat Kar: Sir, I support this amendment When the hon Clause 3 was added to the Bill. Minister brought forward this Bill originally on the floor ot the HoUse Mr. Speaker: I urge upon the Gov- he said that out of the experience oi ernrornt party to have the whips here. the last five years, he thought H 3945 Estatt Duty 1 SEPTEMBER JfSS (Amendment) Bill 3546 advisable to bring the amending Bill. Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: I am thank So, Government gave proper thought ful to the Panditji for the elucidation while the amending Bill was brought he has given. The Select Committee forward before the House. At that went into the pros and cons of this time, when the Bill was brought up amendment and suggested that the hiere, the Government thought that the status quo might be maintained. That period of two years should be changed means two years. We need not also to five years. But the Select Com give retrospective effect as he has mittee has amended this. I would like pointed out. Therefore, I am unable to know why the Government, which to accept the amendment. thought of five years originally, is now thinking in these terms. Mr. Speaker: I shall put amend ment No. 21 to the vote of the House. The question is: Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I Page 2,— oppose this amendment. The effect of this amendment will be that the gifts after line 36, add— which have already taken place more '(a) in sub-section (1) for the than two years ago, will be in jeo words “two years” the words “five pardy. If the five years’ rule is years” shall be substituted;’ adopted, it would mean that those gifts which would have become indefeasible The motion was negatived. will come into question again. The principle of retrospective legislation is Mr. Speaker: The question is: so well-known in this House that I “That Clause 4 stand part of the need not repeat it In England, in Bill ” 1910 an attempt was made for chang ing the period from one to three years The motion ts u adopted. At that time transitional provisions were made that all those gifts which Clause 4 was added to the Bill. were established by the efflux of time were taken away from the purview of Mr. Speaker: The question is: that amendment Similarly, m 1946 “That clauses 5 to 11 stand part when three years were changed to five of the Bill.” years, at that time also, similar transi tional provisions were accepted Now, The motion was adopted we have passed The Gift Act What is the meaning of changing the period Clauses 5 to 11 were added to thefiill to five years7 Ordinarily, when we Clause 12.— (Amendment of section enact, we do not Rive retrospective 33) effect and it will be wrong to do so in this case Only in certain kinds of Mr. Speaker: Now, we shall take up legislation, retrospective effect is clause 12 Let me dispose of the Gov given. It is not this kind of legisla ernment amendment first. The hon tion. In oar taxation legislation, Minister The hon Minister must retrospective effect is not ordinarily have somebody to assist him also; there given and so this amendment is not are so many young Ministers acceptable. All those expectations (Interruptions ) which have been raised in the minds o f the people making gifts ought not Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Sir, I beg to to be disturbed and all these circum move: stances which they have contemplated in the course of their life should not Page 4,— in this way be disturbed to such an extent. Then, all those transactions (i) line 19, for "clause” where it would he in jeopardy. I, therefore, occurs for the second time, oppose this amendment. substitute “ clauses” ; J4H7 Ettat* Duty SEPTEMBER U N (Amendment) B ill 394*

[Dr. B. Gopala Reddi]

(il) after line 25, add— am certain that this precious gesture! of the Cabinet and the hon. Finance “ (m) property belonging to the Minister and the House will be very deceased who was a member of greatly appreciated by all the armed armed forces of the Union and forces of the Union. who was killed m action during operations against an enemy.” Shri Prabhat Kar: In part (ii) at Mr. Speaker: This amendment is the amendment, the wording is: “killed before the House and I will put it to in action during operations against an the vote of the House. enemy”. 1 do not know whether it sounds all right. Shri Kami Singhji (Bikaner): Sir, once this amendment is put to the Mr. Speaker: Singular includes vote, I will not be able to speak on plural. “Operations against aa my amendment enemy”—there may be only one enemy. Everybody knows when we Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member may are fighting somebody, it is the enemy. move his amendment also. “Killed” means by the enemy. I do not know if a friend will kill him. It Shri Karni Singhji: I do not wish is the enemy who comes there in the to move my amendment but I would battle. There are a number 01 like to speak on it. 1 am very glad enemies, but they do not come for the that the Government have accepted operation there. There may be en the substance of my amendment No. 9 emies outside. which seeks exemption for the armed forces from the estate duty when Shri Prabhat Kar: I think it would killed in service. Ever since 1953, be better if we say “killed in action when I had the honour to serve on during operations” . the Select Committee on Estate Duty Bill, I had been pursuing this parti Mr. Speaker: If a lion or tiger kills cular point and m my minute of dis him? sent which I appended to the 1953 Shri Prabhat Kar: It must be in Select Committee report, 1 had men operation. tioned these two points. 1 am very glat> that the Government and the Mr. Speaker: Suppose he goes out House, m their collective wisdom, are and a wolf eats him away. accepting the main substance of my amendment. I do hope that at some Shri V. P. Nayar (Quilon): He must later stage the House will reconsider get the advantage in that case. If for the services of the police force who an operation he goes into the jungle are killed in certain specified and and is eaten by the man-eaters, I think difficult circumstances—for example he is equally entitled to the protection fighting the dacoits; the armed con of the law. stabulary which is pok in g the Indo- Pakistan borders who stand to lose Mr. Speaker: That is beyond the their lives every day. This point, I scope of the amendment hope, will be taken up at some later date. The question is:

In the light of the Government Page 4,— amendment which has been moved as a result of mine, which substantially (i) line 19, for “clause”- where it accepts my stand, I most heartily occurs for the second tiw y agree not to move my amendment. I substitute “clausea"; aa* Xsuut Duty 1 SUPWOfBER IW9 (Amendment) Bill 3930

fil) after Kne 25, add— Shri Nauakir BharadM: I beg to. move: “(m) property belonging to the deceased who was a member of (i) Page 4, omit lines 35 to 48. the armed forces of the Union (li) Page 4, line 28,— and who was killed in action after “determining” insert “the rate during operations ' against an o f ’. enemy.” Amendment 12 is aimed at omitting The motion was adopted. lines 35 to 40, that is, clause (c) relating to joint Hindu family will be Mr. Speaker: The other amendments omitted By amendment 36 I have are barred. said the words “the rate o f ’ may be inserted after the word ‘‘determin The question is: ing” “That clause 12, as amended, stand part of the Bill.” I may say that so far as amendment 36 is concerned, I presume that it is The motion was adopted. the intention of the Government also that the aggregation is for Clause 12, as amended, was added to purposes of calculating the rate the Bill of estate duty payable, or the slaD m which, estate duty should be Clause 13.— (Substitution 0/ new paid. There is no objection, there section for section 34) fore, I presume on the part of Govern ment accepting this amendment which Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: I beg to only clarifies the position. I may point move: out that the original section 34 in the Estate Duty Act has the wording “for Page 4, lines 31 and 32,— determining the rate of estate duty” . Therefore, I have simply put that for “ (1), (j) and ( 1) ” subtitute amendment to clarify the position. “ (i>, (j), ( 1) and , ( 1) « nd (m)*\ ed, we heard the hon. Minister’s- reaction. He was of opinion that aa * The m otion urns adopted. matter of fact the tfitefarfwrt familiaar 3 9 5 1 Estate Duty 1 SKPTRI^BIEI 19&6 (Amendment) B ill 395a

[Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava] Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Then? are put to a great advantage if this Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Than amendment is not there. That was he will be taxed. his reason. Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: He won’t. So far as the question of rate is concerned, he was pleased to say this Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: A really relates to not aggregation but person leaving only property worth rates. I do not want to expatiate on Rs. 5,000 will be taxed, whereas it. I hope the amendment of my hon. according to what fell from my hon. friend Shri Bharucha will be accepted friend, no person who has left pro to make the whole thing clear, as fell perty less than Rs. 50,000 should be from your lips also yesterday. taxed. We know that under the Hindu law, In regard to the amendment pro persons belonging to the joint Hindu posed, my humble submission is that family belonging to Madras, Bombay the position has been rather mis and Madhya Pradesh have an absolute conceived. I do not think that so far right to alienate their share in the as taxation or the rights of any person, undivided Hindu family. In the other any citizen of India are concerned, States such a right does not exist. they are based on his belonging to a Suppose a person in any of these particular class, creed, religion, sect States alienates his entire property in or caste. We read in the Constitution the joint Hindu family, he leaves no that all persons are to be treated as property, yet the shares of all his individuals. In the preamble of the lenial descendants, even of those who Constitution we find the words “ the do not get any interest by birth, for dignity of the individual” . We do not instance the daughters, will all be find the dignity of the family or the aggregated. They will all be taxed. dignity of the caste or creed or any This is the anomalous position. thing. The words are “ the dignity of the individual” . I would very humbly Mr. Speaker: Only the other day the plead with the hon. Minister that if hon. Minister seems to have said that his argument were accepted, it will it is calculated only for the purpose lead to very great mischief in this of determining the rate and not the land. If you were to tax certain castes estate to be taxpd or creeds or religions or because a person belongs to Dayabhaga or Mit Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Sup akshara families, it would lead to such posing a person leaves no property or property worth only Rs. 1.000, what results that the Government itself does the word ‘rate’ mean in his case? would be ashamed of. If all the property is aggregated and Shri V. P. Nayar: Why not Aliya- another Rs. 5 lakhs come m, the rate santana or Marumakkattayam’ will be fixed on the total amount. The rate will not be on Rs. 1,000. The Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: My position will be that he leaves no pro •argument equally applies to all. perty and yet he is taxed at the rate fixed on the basis of Rs 5 lakhs. Look at the results. What would happen? Suppose a person has only Mr. Speaker: If he leaves no pro property worth Rs. 5,000 and he hap perty at all. where does the question pens to be a member of the joint of tax come in? Hindu family, would it be taxed or not? Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: If Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: How many he alienates the entire property and sorts has he? ' he has only the joint family status, then he leaves no property, only the ''Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: He lineal descendants possess properties has got nine sons. as they have riot alienated their share £

of the property. In that contingency, into consideration the entire joint that property must be aggregated and family property including the shares gathered together with the property of the lineal descendants also. Let left t)Jr the deceased. us understand that before voting.

Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Are the sons Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: When the tax partitioned from the' father? able property is nil—o f course, the rate will be fixed on the entire pro Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: No; perty—according to him, what is only the joint family property is there. there to be taxed? If you speak of partition, you are entertaining a proposition which is Mr. Speaker; Is a son’s share in a unheard of. Separate property of no joint family property taxable? son can be taken. Here it is only the question of the joint family. It may happen that the deceased may have Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: He says that no property, no share so far as the it has been disposed of. jbint family is concerned. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Sup Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: And he is a posing it is Rs. 500, what difference parasite on the Hindu joint family does it make? having alienated all his property?

Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Sup Mr. Speaker: What the hon. Mem posing he has got only property worth ber says is, if he has separate private Rs. 1000 and he has alienated all his property which he can dispose of and property. k Shat rare? ,Many which he has disposed of, and he has fathers do this. They alienate their only his share in the joint family, entire property— it is taken away in that remains along with the shares of debt his lineal descendants. It is clear that his share only—if he has four Mr. Speaker: Let us be clear about sons, he will have only one-fifth this position. We will assume that share—will be taxed. But the rate a person has no separate property, or at which he will be taxed is not based having had separate property he has <>n the value of his share only, the disposed of " that property and he rate will be calculated based on the continues to be a member of a Hindu value of the entire joint family. His joint family along with his son3 and share and the shares of his lineal others. The only question is, if he descendants will be aggregated for has lineal descendants—does 1' include fixing the rate at which he will be female descendants a lso .... taxed Therefore, that *s clear. What is the hon. Member’s objection? An Mon. Member; Yes. It is not that I am asking him to vote for or against it, but I want to Mr. Speaker; There is both male know what exactly is the position and female under the Succession Act If he has lineal descendants, then his Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava; I share alone, not those of his descen will give all my objections Firstly, dants, will be taxed, but the rate will Sir, aggregation can take place if be fixed on the aggregate of the en there is a nucleus of property; other tire property. Is that understood? wise there is no question of aggrega tion at all. This law does not pro Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Yes. vide that if a person leaves no pro perty there will be no aggregation. Mr. Speaker: Therefore, the shares o f the lineal descendants will not be taxed. Only his share will be Mr. Speaker; There is the joint taxed, but the rate will be fixed taking family property. 3 9 5 5 Estate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 1988 (Amendment) M U ^

tn d it Aifcur Das Bhargava: If he tax payable will be fixed taking into has alienated the whole of his consideration the entire property o i share----- Rs. 5 lakhs, which will he an enhanc ed rate— more than what it will be it Mr. Speaker; Including his share in the rate is fixed on the share of the the joint family property? deceased only—and in that case who Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Of ever receives this share of Rs. 1000 may have to pay Rs. 1000 more by course. According to law a person is way of tax. capable of alienating his sharfe in the entire joint family property. Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: If he surren Dr. B. Gepala Reddi: Then he will ders the entire property—that is an pay gift tax at that stage, and if other matter—the deceased nan will there is no property that is passing be declared insolvent for this purpose. on at his death there will be no tax Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Sec at all. tion 53 of this Act says that a person Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava; I is only liable to the extent he receives understand the hon. Minister to mean property. What would happen is, ac that if there is no nucleus of property cording to section 53 no person will there will not be any tax. be able to pay.

Mr. Speaker: What is there to be Mr. Speaker: Those are extreme taxed? Estate duty is on whatever cases—Government will lose. property is passed on including joint Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Then, family property. If during his life what will be the rate in the case of time a person has sold everything in other persons? cluding his share of the joint family property and he leaves nothing be hind, then nothing is passed on Mr Speaker; I am not here to argue about the goodness or soundness of Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Sup this position, but all that 1 am anx posing be leaves Rs. 1000 worth of ious is that before putting it to property and the aggregate property the vote of the House I must know comes to Rs. 5 lakhs, what happens what exactly I am putting befoie the then? House Therefore, I want to make clear, both for myself and also the Mr. Speaker: The sons will have to hon Members here, as to what exact pay; whoever takes it. ly Government proposes to do and what exactly the hon. Member’s Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: That objection is. I do not either side with is actually my submission, that the him or oppose him, it is open to him sons cannot be made to pay. to take any view. The point is clear that to the extent of share that a .Mr. Speaker: What I am saying is— person leaves, only to that extent the the hon. Member does not put it that property will be liable for payment of way—the difficulty may arise this estate duty. But the only difference way. Whoever receives the property is that the calculation of the rate of of Rs. 1000 will have to pay Rs. 1500 duty will not be confined to the pro by way of tax. We will assume that perty which passes on, but it will be a per An leaves only Rs. 1000 worth calculated as though the entire pro of property as his share in the joint perty of the deceased and the Joint family and the rest of the members family consisting of his lineal descen of the joint family continue to poss dants is passing on his death. It is ess their entire share. If the entire on that assumption that the rate will property of the Joint family may be fixed, but it will be levied only aggregate to R«. 9 lakhs, the rate of on the share which passes os. 3957 Irta te Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 1858 (Amendment) Bill 3958 Shri K. Ftdmrinl Gwnder which will be available for imposi (Karur): The maximum rate is only tion of estate duty will be one -fifth 40 per cent.; it will never go beyond share of the property of the family, 4ft per cent. and if there is any separate self- acquired property it will be kept Mr. Speaker: I am. not talking ‘ibout separate for all time and it will not 40 or 50 per cent. If the rate was be aggregated. fixed only on the property left behind It would have been 5 per cent, or 10 Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Self-acquired per cent., but now it may reach oven property of sons will not be aggregat 40 per cent. Pandit Thakur Das ed for ratable purposes. Bhargava's complaint is that it may reach even 40 per cent, if other Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I understand that so far as estate duty shares of the property are also tagged is concerned a person has to pay duty oa to his share because of the fact like this on his interest in the joint that It continues to be a joint family family property plus hi? separate pro property. perty also. In that case his separate property will be there and his joint Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I will family property plus liabilities to the eome to the third point. It is said: tune of Rs. 3 lakhs, in which his one- “interests in the joint family property ftfth share will be taken as well as o f the lineal descendants” . This four-fifth of his sons’ liabilities will word “ interest” does include liability also be taken. His separate property also. “ Interest” does not mean posi will be taxed on the basis of the tax tive interest only. If there is liability on the joint property of the deceased o f lineal descendants, where will it and his sons. I have given you an go? The liability must also be shar example in which all your estate duty ed. “ Interest” means both positive as will amount to zero. well as negative property, and also liabilities. 13 hrs.

Mr. Speaker: “Interest” always Mr. Speaker: It does not matter. means “minus debt” . The deceased is not going to take the property to heaven or hell. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Let Us take another case. Supposing Ihe Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Only whole family is insolvent 3nU there the treasury will take it away. is a decree of Rs. 3 lakhs against the father as well as the sons, -ind the Mr. Speaker: The treasury must get father has got a good self-acquired along for the benefit of the entire property also, no tax will be payable community. at all because the interests of the lineal descendants will amount to five Whatever share the deceased was times the amount of debts on the possessed of that alone will bo taxed father. but at a higher rate on the aggregate of all the other properties. But If the other fellows are also insolvent Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: No, Sir; self there is no higher rate. Cipher plus acquired property of sons will bo cipher continues to be cipher. kept apart, it has nothing to with joint family and his share in the joint family. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Now look at the discrimination. In regard Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava; I to income tax you know that the take it, if a person has a decree exemption limit is Rs. 3,000. If a against him to the tune of Rs. 3 lakhs house consists of ten persons, delud and four sons, the only property ing the earning member, that one 3959 Estate Duty I SEPTEMBER 1958 (Amendment) Sill

[Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava] earning member of the joint Hindu a member of a joint Hindu family is family has to pay the income-tax on concerned. He may even die a pau behalf of nine persons. This is the per leaving Rs. 5 and yet he is liable. discrimination we have been com plaining of. Mr. Speaker: How? Previously the limit in regard to Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Be the individual was Rs. 1 lakh. In cause the words are that the whole regard to joint Hindu family the limit property shall be aggregated so as to was Rs. 50,000. No person had to pay form one estate and estate duty shall any tax, no member of a joint Hindu be levied thereon. family had to pay any tax unless he had property worth Rs. 50,000 to pass Mr. Speaker: I do not think the on. Now the law is changed in other clause is abrogated stating that favour of the rich and to the detri Rs. 50,000 or Rs. 1 lakh will be ment of the poor. If a person has got exempted. That provision has not any amount of property whatsoever, been abrogated by this amendment. he is chargeable to estate duty. No Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava; Let person should be chargeable with any the hon. Minister make this state duty unlegs he has got property ment. which will pass on hi* death to the tune of Rs. 50,000. Whereas so far Mr. Speaker: I understand the posi as this unfortunate Mitakshara family tion to be like this. If there is tax is concerned, even if the property is able property which the deceased has Rs. 1,000 which will pass on death, left, tax on that property will not be he will be taxed. calculated as if he left that property only but the ratable duty that will Mr. Speaker: Where is it stated’ Is be charged on that property will be there no limit? at the rate as if he left behind him not only that share but the share of Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Now all his lineal descendants also. But the law has been changed very much the matter of exemption and other to their detriment. Previously only a person of a joint Hindu family to things are not affected by this. If he is not liable to gay at all on ac whom property worth Rs. 50,000 or count of the exemption, he ■drill not more passed on inheritance could be be liable to pay. But jf he is liable charged. Now any person who has to pav over the exemption, it is not any property could be charged at the rate belonging to that parti Mr. Speaker; I thought they want cular portion, but the aggregate rate ed to make a distinction bt tween that will be charged Am I right? separate property and joint Hindu Shri B. Gopala Reddi; After aggre family property Originally Rs 75,000 gation if it exceeds Rs 50,000 he will w%s the exemption given for separate be taxed. Duty can never be higher property; Rs. 50,000 was the share of than the amount. We proceed on the property of a deceased member that basis. of the Joint Hindu family. !t has been raised to Rs 1 lakh. Whatever Mr. Speaker: Supposing the gentle exemption is given to the separate man sells away his property without property is to that extent given to dividing it among his sons? joint family property also. But the grade will be on the aggregate o.f Ihe Dr. B. Gopala Reddf: That means property. he has no property at all. jP&ndit Thakur Das Bhargava: Now Pandit Thakur ttas Bhargava: It is there is absolutely no limit so far as necessary for the deceased fo leave m ttta U B ut* 1 SEPTEMBER lWS (Amendment) Bill 3 96* property worth about Rs. 50,000 be Aeharra Krtpalanl (Sitamarhi): fore hl« property can be taxed? Have they consulted the Law Minis ter? I do not think our friend is a Or. B. Gopala Reddi: If the pro lawyer; he may not be able to under perty left is only Rs. 1.000 Bnd the stand these complications. aggregate amount is Rs. 9 lakhs or Rs. 20 lakhs, anyhow the duty can Mr. Speaker: That does not require never be higher than the amount of law. The only point is, he wants to- Rs. 1,006. That property alone can know why. be taxed. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: He is Shri Prabhat Kar: What is the Gov evading the! question. Supposing p ernment’s intention? person leaves property worth Mr. Speaker: The Government’s in Rs. 49,000 and the aggregate amount tention is, if one man dies, another is Rs. 11,000 more. man’s property should be taken away, or, if a man dies . . . Mr. Speaker: Then there is dis crimination here. Exemption of Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: That branch Rs. 50,000 or Rs. 1 lakh would not alone is being taken. When he died, apply to this case at all? If this he was the owner of Rs. 1,36,000. He share is less than Rs. 50,000 normally has two sons. We are taking that it would not be taxable. The otherj branch as a whole. He was the are frugal or careful. Simply be owner of Rs. 1,35,000. He has two cause the third man is careless he other sons. Of course, for taxable leaves nothing. Why should the purpose, only one-third of Rs. 1,35,000 exemption go? What is the point in is taken. For ratable purposes the this? rate will be that applicable to Rs. 1,35.000. Shri Jhonjhunwala (Bhagalpur): I shall illustrate this. The whole Mr. Speaker: Let us assume that family has got property worth the man leaves Rs. 50,000 as separate Rs. 1,35,000. There are three mem property. There is an exemption. bers The father dies. Each man’s So far $s the father leaves a separate share is Rs. 45,000. Will they be property of Rs. 50,000, you are hot taxed on Rs. 45,000? going to tax a pie upon that. Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Yes, they will Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: His share in be taxed. the joint family is aggregated. Mr. Speaker: Then there is abso Mr. Speaker: Leave alone his joint lutely no exemption so far joint family property. That man’s property Hindu family k concerned. passes to the sons however rich the Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: When the sons may be and as there is the aggregate amount is more than exemption, that Rs. 50,000 is not Rs. 50,000 it will attract the estate taxed In a joint Hindu family, the duiy. sons are poor and the father and all the sons together, have Rs. 51,000, Mr. Speaker: Then the joint family say The moment the father dies, the is given a go-by. entire share of the sons also is taxed.

Whereas in drtyabhagu each man’s Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Self-acquir property is his own, here each man’s ed property of the would not be property is not his own. A man is aggregated. If he has the share of entitled to his share. Though his the joint Hindu family...... share is only Rs. 50,000 if the aggre gate Rs. 50,000, the whole property Mr. Speaker: I am only using it as is taxed when it is passed on. What an analogy. If the share of the father* is the principle behind it? in a separate property, was Rs. 50,000* 3 9 6 3 Ettate Duty 1 SEPTKJOEB 1858 (Amendment) 9 0 1 3 9 64

[Mr. Speaker] or Rs. 80,000, to the extent of Rs. single pie of the entire property 50.000 there is the exemption, in the should be taxed. That was the first hpnds of the sons They take the point. Secondly, there is the point Rs. 50,000. If he dies only as a mem about the rate. My hon. friend says ber of the joint Hindu family, that after all the rate is aggregated. May I joint property, even though all of them remind him of the provisions of the are coming together, may be only Rs Income-tax Act where also we have 51.000 or Rs. 60,000, where the exemp got a differential treatment But then tion is not given ^ven for a pie. Even that differential treatment is not the with this Rs 10,000 which he leaves same as here. lor four sons, the entire Rs. 10,000 is liable to come under the provision; Yesterday, you, Sir, were pleased to even if no exemption is given, why do suggest and pass a remark incidentally you make a difference between sepa on the question of minor sons. You rate property and joint family pro first put the question whether the perty and his share in the joint family? minor sons’ share is to be taken or Why is it augmented in the whole whether it is the share of all the family? lineal descendants That was a most pertinent question. A non-Hindu can Dr. B. Gopala Beddi; This is only come and say, or a man who belongs for ratable purposes, but there, the to the Dayabhaga system or a Mussal- entire property is taxed. Rs 50,000 or man or a Christian can come and say, Rs. 60,000 will be taxed, but here, the “Ail right, here is the Hindu; he aggregation is only for ratable pur belongs to the Mitakshara family You poses. are taking his share of his property But you are taking our entire property Mr. Speaker: The exemption goes and it is taxed ’’ This can be a possi His complaint is, there is no objection ble objection, though, according to to the rate being increased, though me, this is no objection, as I shall even there, he does not agree to one show later on, because, the community point; but, all the same, it may be as such is not taxed; the classes are said that in the aggregate you are re not taxed; the family is not taxed; ceiving it only from the share of the only the individual is taxed If I have property, not exceeding that share But got an advantage in the Hindu law, ■why are you removing the exemption do thev want to deprive me of it? A also so far as the share is concerned, Mussalman can marry four wives Can and making a distinction between a Hindu do it’ separate property and joint family •property. If he left separate property to the extent of Rs 50,000 it is exempt, Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: He could "but merely because this is a joint marry eight wives previously family property you are taxing it, 'though under other circumstances, if Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: To it had been separate property he is day he can marry four wives, and can entitled to exemption Not only that divorce a wife bv simply saying talt£k. He is asked to pay a higher rate also So far as donations are concerned, he THiat is a double inconvenience He can make gifts also to an extent of •wants to know the reason or the prin one-third of the property All these ciple behind it The hon Minister will things do not apply to the Hindus. ■explain later. Why not they apply these laws equally’ They do not apply these laws Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I equally to the Mussalmans and others. was submitting that as a matter of fact What is the meaning of his saying that so far as the property of the joint Dayabhaga is a different system and Hindu family is concerned there is that therefore, they should bring the absolutely no exemption at all, not a Mitakshara family into the lap o f the Estate vuty 1 SEPTEMBER 19S8 ( Amendment) Bill 3966

Dayabhaga system? I do not under each member will get Rs. 4,000 a stand. I can tell the House that so far month* Will the hon. Minister bring as the estate duty is concerned, there his principle here and do justice to the must be no such difference for the Mitakshara family? Will he say that taxes, and as far as the Hindu joint these people do not have Rs. 3,000 less? families are concerned, a£ the number I submit that all these principles which Is large the deaths will be more fre have been relied upon by my hon. quent. You cannot compare them and friend are too weak, to which any because the Dayabhaga family support could be given. My humble contributes to your coffers, that Mitnk - submission is, if you will tax in this shara families also should contribute manner, there will be nothing but con equally and in the same way and thus fusion in this land. We only know of it must be equated in this way. This one principle: whatever passes on is not correct and that is not constitu the death of a particular person, that tional; you will thus be violating the would be the subject-matter of estate Constitution. You are really going duty whether he is a Mussalman, against the Constitution in bringing an Hindu or anybody else. That is the argument of this sort which only right principle. Otherwise, you will baffles me and it cannot have any be offending against the principle of farce. equality given under articles 14 and 15 of the Constitution. You can kindly see what is given in I understand that 80 years ago, when the Income-tax Law, and the law re the Englishmen were our masters here, lating thereto. The only question they enacted this law in regard to the that came up in 1949 then was with Hindu joint family, and they included regard to Rs. 3,500 or Rs. 5,000 in thr> it in the definition of person and joint Hindu families, and at that time, hundreds of crores of rupees have the question was solved in a different been illegally exacted from them. Now, manner, in a manner which you were in the year 1958. the hon. Finance pleased to suggest We provided that Minister wants that we, with open in regard to joint Hindu families, eyes, should recognise a distinction where there were two adult members, which does not exist in law and which the limit was to be double the amount, is not just, and make a distinction and that if there was a minor son, hr between the Mitakshara families and would not get the advantage. Even the rest of the world—that if any per for this purpose, which according to son belonging to any other community me is thoroughly unconstitutional, they has got a property of less than Rs. say that the right of minors is taken 50,000, on passing, no estate duty can away. Even minors do not get any be levied. And again, so far as these thing. So far as the right of majors 13 families are concerned, the poorer th* concerned, it is unthinkable that family the greater is the tax. their right can be taken away, by the estate duty even for the purpose of th" Mr. Speaker: As soon as a son is rates. born, the little child is made to take care of itself. In case the father should I have given an example of the in die. the child might get the property. come-tax in regard to the joint Hindu Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: families. I beg of the hon. Minister to According to Hindu Law, a child, when go into the matter kindly. If a Hindu he is introduced into this world, gets Joint family member has got Rs. 4 an independent right not through his lakhs worth of property and pays all father but from the right of the acci the taxes, then, each member, if the dent of birth. family consists of four members, gets Rs. 1,000 a month, whereas in the case Mr. Speaker: So, soon after the o f a Mussalman family living jointly birth, if he divides himself from hfs or a Parsee family or any other family, son, then there is no aggregation. Ml Http live together and make joint Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: The earnings, after paying all the taxes, result will be, as in the Income-Tax US LSD—5. 35*7 Estate Duty t SEPTEMBER 1858 (Amendment) Bill 39j g

[Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava] Act, the families will be broken. The harassing the family. I have known direct result of this will be that it will how for years they are harassing the act as a social monster and will break family. For years they go on iraJr.nc away every Hindu joint family. Ail inventories. The enemies send anony Hindu families will think that as their mous letters and they go on with their sons are there, the greater the num enquiry for years. May I humbly ask ber of sons, the greater is the likeli the hon. Finance Minister if ht hM hood of the person being taxed. experienced any case which hast b**«n decided in less than 11 years? My friend was elequent in telling us, “After all, what is Rs. 400...... ” Even yestsrday, a person was asking Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member has me whether the police can interfere said enough and people have under making inventories and harassing hfm. stood him. It is only a question cl I know of a case in which the b^nk change of heart. I do not know how was stopped from paying any money far the hon. Minister is going to to a person and though he was owner change. What is the good of spending of lakhs, he was unable to draw more time upon this? We have spent his money and he had to get some a lot of time. loan from his friends for def^ayln* his expenses, because the bank was Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I do asked not to pay him any money. not think the hon. Minister w li So, the question is not one of Rs. 400i change. He himself has said he is noi but it is a question of vaxation and giving any assurance. harassment to the middle-class fami lies if you place the limit too low. Mr. Speaker: If the hon. Member Otherwise, Rs. 400 is not much. I do has cleared his doubt from the Minis not think on that point, people are ter, he may resume his seat. What is afraid. People are afraid of the vexa the good of arguing? tion and harassment that this will en tail. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: At least I am arguing before my fellow I can go on ad infinitum giving m any Members. I am not leaving it here. examples. Even today, the depart It is a question of very great impot- ment of the hon. Finance Minister tance so far as the principle of taxa even taxes labourers. It is idle to" the tion is concerned. Therefore, I am Government of India to boast that they appealing to all my fellow Members have fixed the limit at Rs. 3000 for that they should think twice before income-tax and Rs. 50,000 for estate giving their vote. duty. As a matter of fact, in practice, even labourers who get Rs. 10 per 18.22 hrs. month are asked to pay income-tax Similarly, even people with Rs. 100® [Mr. Deptjty-Speaker in the Chair] will have to pay estate duty on tbelr property. Let the world know how The hon. Minister was very eloquent the Hindu joint families are treated yesterday in telling us that only Rs. here. I have said enough and I am 400 are taken and only once after not intrigued even by the ststemect death. And he is quite right. May I of the hon. Finance Minister that he tell him, if in a small family, the will not give any assurance. Even father has left only Rs. 10,000 and Mr. T. T. Krishnamachari spoke aimf- there are five or six sons; what will larly and ended by giving an assn- happen to that family? It is not a rance. The hon. Finance Minister said question of Rs. 400 at all. It is a ques I am repeating his own words—” 1 am tion of the so-called public secants not giving any a-.surance; but if ther» going to the family and for years are difficulties, I will look into them.* $ 9 ^ 9 Estate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 (Amendment) BUZ 397°

Or. B. Ch»pala Reddi: We will cer also the interests in the joint tainly look into individual ca&*s- family property of all the lineal descendants of the deceased mem Paadit Tbaknr Das Bbargava: This ber;" is an individual case. In the c?se j f A you will charge only 4 per cent, but This should be read along with in the case of B 50 per cent. If that sections 5, 6 and 7 of the Estate Duty is not difficulty, I do not know what Act. Section 5 reads as follows: it is. “In the case of every person dy If the assurance is given or not, if ing after the commencement of he imposes something which is funda this Act, there shall, save as here mentally constitutionally wrong, be inafter expressly provided, be shall have to change. This is a provi levied and paid upon the principal sion which is inequitous, uniust and value ascertained as hereinafter it shall never be allowed to remain on provided of all property, settled or the statute-book for a long time This not settled, including agricultural is most discriminatory. We know that land situate in the States specified under the Moghal rule, the Hindus m the First Schedule to this Act, were paying Jesya. But we never which passes on the death of such knew that this Government will tax person, a duty called “estate duty” the joint Hindu family like this I at the rates fixed in accordance know I am using strong words, but with section 35.” strong things require strong words. So, it is a duty which is put only on Therefore, I appeal to every Member property which passes on the death of of the House to think twice before a person. It is not levied on any pro he gives his vote in favour of this perty which does not pass on the death provision, because this cuts at the very of any persons. root of the Constitution. It cuts at the root of not only the Hindu joint Section 6 makes the matter still family, but of the very basis of jus clear: tice. “Property which the deceased Shrl V. P. Nayar: This is the fourth was at the time of his death com time. petent to dispose of shall be deemed to pass on his death.” Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: This injustice has been perpetrated four In the case of a joint family gov times. Therefore, it is all the more erned by Mitakshara, the father has binding on him to consider it 3nd it no power to transfer the property be should not be done for the fifth time. longing to his sons. The sons acquire I wish that the hon. Minister will be the interest in the property by birth. pleased to look at this matter from So, it cannot be said that the father the angle I have explained and take had any disposing power over the pro away this provision. perty which belongs to his son.s. It cannot be said that the property that Shri Mnlchand Dobs (Farrukha- passes on the death of the father is bad): Sub-clause (c) of clause 13 of the property which belongs to the this Bill runs counter to the entire sons also. Therefore, my submission scope and principle of the Estate Duly is that sub-clause (c) goes entirely Act. Clause 13(c) says: counter to the entire scope and princi ple of the Estate Duty Act. “ (c) in the case of property so Section 7 reads as follows: passing which consists of a copar cenary interest in the joint family “Subject to the provisions of this property of a Hindu family gov section, property in which the de erned by the Mitakshara, Maru- ceased or any other person had an mahkattaytm or Aliyasantana law, interest ceasing on the death of 3 9 7 > Ertate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER l# 5fi (Amendment) B ill

[Shri Malchand Dube] the deceased shall be deemed to Shri JtLfuuUu ftao: I am stating pass on the deceased’s death to the my reading of the provisions. Thu is extent to which a benefit accrues my view. Merely because I am sitting or arises by the cesser of such in with the hon. Minister it does not terest, Including, in particular, a mean that I am giving the view of the coparcenary interest in the joint hon. Minister. It is only when the family property of a Hindu family value of the interest of the member ot governed by the Mitakshara, a joint Hindu family is Hs. 50,000 or Marumakkattayum or Aliyasan - more the question of aggregation tana law.” comes in. In section 34, which is now sought to be amended by clause 13 of the amending Bill, the aggrega This also makes it very clear that tion is being introduced, because the the duty should be levied only on pro joint Hindu family is now broad- perty to the extent to which it en based. Now the female heirs have also hances the shares of others In I fie got a share or interest in the pro case of coparcenary property, it can perty. That is how I understand the not be said what interest a person had provisions of the Bill. I cannoc for at any particular time. It cannot be a moment think that it is the inten said whether the father at the time of tion to bring in the property of a mem his death possessed any particular in ber of the Joint Hindu family which terest or share in the joint family pro does not exceed Rs. 50,000 in value. perty. For that reason, it was made It is not so. That discrimination could clear that when he died, for the pur not have been contemplated at all. If pose of estate duty, what will be that is so, in my humble opinion, it considered will be the extent to which will violate article 14 of the Constitu the interest of the other members of tion. That is how I understand ii I the family has been increased or en support the principle of aggregation, as hanced by his death. So, it cannot be said that the shares of the sons could it is highly necessary. be included for the purpose of assess Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: If fouz bro ing the estate duty on the death of thers are living together and the pro the father or any other memb°r of perty of the joint Hindu family is the family. worth Rs. 1,50,000 and if A, one of the brothers, dies, then there is no estate So, I submit that the theory of ag duty. If the property is worth Rs. gregation propounded by the hon 1,50,000 and the four brothers are liv Minister is not applicable to a joint ing together, as each man’s share is family at all and it goes counter to less than Rs. 50,000, it would not be the principle laid down by the Estate taxed. But if, on the other hand, a Duty Act itself. So long as you do not brother dies and his estate is worth amend sections 5, 6 and 7 of the Estate more than Rs 50,000, say Rs. 1 lakh, Duty Act, clause 13, sub-clause (c) and if he has got two sons, that is, will be inconsistent and jrreconciliable in his own branch, then that property with sections 5, 6 and 7. Therefore, will be liable to estate duty. We are at the present moment, it will be ultra taking into account that branch also vires this Parliament even to pass sub for the purpose of levying estate duty. clause (c) of clause 13 of the amend Suppose a property is worth Rs. 4 lakhs ing Bill. and there are four brothers. The Rhri Jaganatha Rao: As I under share of each Branch will come to stand the provisions, unless the in Rs 1 lakh. Then we will take Rs. 1 terest of a member of a joint Hindu lakh for ratable purposes. On the family who dies exceeds Rs. 50,000 in other hand, if four brothers have got value, this Act cannot be applied. Rs. 1,50,000 and one of them dies, since each branch would be getting less tha*i Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Will Rs. 50,000 we will not tax. But if the the hon. Minister accept this? branch share Is Rs. 1 lakh and the Estate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER IBM ( Amendment) Bit! brother has two sons, each getting father dies and then the son n going Rs. SS;000 and odd, then for purposes to get that share, in tyldition to his of tax we take into account Rs. 1 lakh. own share in the property. While That rate will be applied only on the doing that, let him pay on enhanced property of Rs. 83,000. So, it is not rate, an aggregate rate on the pro correct to say that for a joint Hindu perty which is passing to him on family there is no exemption at all. the father’s death. I do not see any If the head of the branch dies and discrimination .or unconstitutionality his branch’s share of property is in this. If they are unconstitutional, worth less than Rs. 50,000 there is no they will be challenged elsewhere. tax, even though the joint Hindu Then we shall see. So far as I can family property may be worth Rs. see, there is nothing unconstitutional 1,50,000. So, in my humble opinion, or improper about it. I think the even now the Mitakshara family stands Mitakshara family should also bo in a better position than the Daya- prepared to bear a portion of this. bhaga family. In spite of the hon. I have nothing more to say. I am Member’s argument, vehemence and unable to accept the amendment. all that, having considered the whole subject and having discussed the Shri Mulchand Dube: The hon. matter with our officers, I feel that Minister has not replied to my point even now the Mitakshara family about sections 5, 6 and 7. How can stands in a favourable position when clause 13 be re-conci)ed with sections compared with the Dayabhaga family. 5, 6 and 7?

Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: How Mr. Depnty-Speaker: He might be did this issue arise? Why should you of the opinion that there is no con consider the interests of the Daya flict. bhaga and Mitakshara families? Why should you bring in Hindu, Muslim, Shri Mulchand Dnbe: He does not Parsee, Jain and all that? I do not say that. see this argument at all. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: No reconcili Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Whatever ation is required. it is. as I said, it is not a fact that if Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: I am accept a branch’s property is worth less than ing Shri Bharucha’s amendment, Re. 50,000 it will be taxed. It will be amendment No. 36. exempt. But if it is above Rs. 50,000 then for ratable purposes the son’s Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: May share is also aggregated, because they I know...... have a beneficial interest in the de Mr. Depnty-Speaker: Panditji has ceased man’s property. They are not succeeded so far. going to inherit that property. It is not as if they are not going to get a Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I windfall out of the father’s death. want a clarification. If he is not Apart from their own share, they are disposed to agree to my proposal, I* also getting the deceased man’s share cannot force it. He has said several They have beneficial interest. times that exemption has been given, like others, to the joint Hindu family Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: also, if it has got property worth less Every son will get his father’s pro than Rs. 50,000. perty. Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: That is th6 Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: So, when he property of the branch, that is to say, is getting some property, let him pay a member and his sons. the tax; not on his own share hut on the share which he is going to inherit. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I do After all it Is an accident The not follow. 3975 Bftate Duty I SEPTEMBER 1999 (Amendment) SOI

Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He has tried Mr. Depaty-Speaker: I am iielplesw to explain that 11 the joint Hindu if there is no justification. How family consists of four brothers and amendment No. 36 has been accepted their sons and if the property of the by Government. joint family in aggregate amounts to Rs. 1,50,000 and if one of the brother The question is: dies, then none of them would be Page 4, line 28,— taxed and there would be no estate duty at all, because each of the four afer “determining" insert “ the shares would become less than rate o f ’. Rs. 50,000. Therefore, there will be The motion was adopted. no estate duty at all. But if it con sists of Rs. 2 lakh or Rs. 4 lakh and Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question each branch gets Rs. 1 lakh on the is: death of one—that is to say, that branch consists of one father and two Page 4,— sons and the father dies—then the property of Rs. 1 lakh would be taxed omit lines 35 to 40. for the aggregate. His share would Those in favour will say “ Aye” . be taxed on the rate for Rs. 1 lakh. That is how I understand. Some hon. Members: “Aye”.

Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: These Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Those against two examples I have understood very will say “No” . well. I have given certain examples in which the father leaves less than Several hon. Members: “No”. Rs. 50,000, say, Rs. 5,000. What would happen to that case? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The “Noes” have it. Shri Mulchand Dube: It will not be joint family property. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: There was no “Noes” . Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Let him not confuse the issue The Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I heard “No”. issue is this. If a person dies and if If the hon. Member wants a division, he has got proparty, which is to be that is a different matter. inherited, to the tune of Rs. 50,000, will in such cases, the joint family Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: We property be taxed or not? want a division. Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: The tax charged will not be more than the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: This being amount inherited. If there is no pro the lunch hour, we have to wait. So, perty, there la no tax. is it the desire that there should be a division on that? Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I do not care for the rates. My point is Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: Cer that any member who has got pro tainly I want it. perty worth less than Rs. 50,000 should not be taxed. The question of rate Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Then I will is different. If you have a separate hold it over. rate, I do not mind; let there be a The question is: different rate, as is provided in the Income-tax Act, even though it is 'That clauses 14 to 1? stand part of against the fundamental principles of the Bill.” taxation. There must be some reason, some justification. There is absolute Shri Supakar (Sambalpur): Sir, I ly no justification for this provision. want to speak...... Estate thity 1 SEPTEMBER 186S (Amendment) Bill 397C

Mr, BepKtj-Speaker:...... on where Shri Naushlr Bhanrcha: No, about there is no amendment. I do not deny No. 13. It is not out of order, because ■him his right to speak. here what is sought to be done is that under the existing Act where the Shri Supakar: I meant clause 18. Probate duty was paid the amount of Mr. Deputy-Speaker: We are coming probate duty paid was deducted from t o that the amount of estate duty payable Then the change made is that half The question is: of the probate duty only should be refunded. My amendment is that if "That clauses 14 to 17 stand the half amount is less than Rs. 2,000, part of the Bill.” then in that case upto Rs. 2,000 should The motion was adopted. be exempted. I am exempting it from the tax. I am not adding to it. Clauses 14 to 17 were added to the B ill Mr. Depnty-Speaker: If the exemp tion could be made, then it would Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Though I affect the amount taxable. n ig h t be conscious that the voice that comes here has much support behind Shri Naushlr Bharucha: But it will it, there ought to be voices. Just not come under the mischief of article n ow it has been doubted that really 117 of the Constitution, if it reduces noes have it. Unless there are voices, the amount. how I declare? In order to save time I might declare at one time, but that Mr. Depnty-Speaker: What about is Dot fair article 274? Clause 181— (Amendment of section Shri Naushir Bharucha: No, it will £<150) not affect that. That comes in only when the estate duty divisible amongst Mr. Depnty-Speaker: Are there any the various States is varied. amendments? Mr. Depnty-Speaker: Article 274 8hri Naushlr Bharucha: Amendment says: No. 13. “ No Bill or amendment which 8hri Prabhat Kar: Amendment No imposes or varies any tax or duty 18. in which States are interested..." Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Amendment NowK States are interested in this No. 18 is out of order. Amendment Bill. Ho. 13 is also out of order. Amend ment No. 32 is also out of order. Shri V. P. Nayar: There may be an argument that exemption may be Shri Naushir Bharucha rose— neither imposition nor variation. If a duty of 5 per cent, is altered into 4 Mr. Depaty-Spe&kcr: We will come per cent, then there is variation. But t o it. We will discuss it. Let me have if there is no duty...... others’ amendments also. Is there any other amendment also? All the four Mr. Depnty-Speaker: Exemption amendments are out of order. also reduces. Shri Bharucha can say about his Shri V. P. Nayar: Then the statute amendment now. should be clear. Bfcrl Naushlr Bharucha: Under the Mr. Deputy-8peaker: “No Bill or ■«ati*tiag Act it is provided that...... Amendment which imposes or varies Mr. Deptfty.Bpeaker: He is talking any tax or duty in which States are O f aanendment No. 32? interested ...... ” Kttale Duty 1 Sfi^TEMBJEJR IMS (Aawmdmefct) Bill | g | c>

Shri NauUdr Bharacfaa: How are Mr. Deputy -Speaker: When w e « * - the States interested in this amend empt certain items* that would cer ment? tainly vary the amount that has to b * collected. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: All this money that is collected shall go to the Shri V. P. Nayar*. I put it in an other way. States. Shri Naushir Bharneha: If we see Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Shri Nayar Is article 274----- only taking up a particular Item. Though the tax under that item is not Mr. Depnty-Speaker: Article 117(1). being varied but is only being ex empted, I am taking the tax as a Shri Naushir Bharucha: It reduces whole under the estate duty and that the amount, so it will not come under amount that has to be collected under that. that Bill is being varied by the ex emption of certain items. That is now Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Article 269 I read it eays that the taxes shall be levied and collected by the Government of India Shri V. P. Nayar: My interpretation but shall be assigned to the States. was different. Article 274 lays down Therefore, States are interested in particularly in respect of two acts— article 209. There is no doubt about one is imposition of a tax and the it. other is a variation of a tax and clear Then article 274(1). ly, you will agree, exemption is neither imposition nor variation, in which Shri V. P. Nayar: If a Bill which case we have to construe it very neither imposes nor varies cannot strictly. mean alteration at all. How can it mean? It is very clear that imposition Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That is the does require permission. Variation most unfortunate part that I differ also requires permission, but complete from’ him. abolition does not. It is entirely a Shri V. P. Nayar: I cannot help. different thing from imposition or variation. Exemption is clearly out Shri Supakar: Sir, I wish to draw side the scope of the article. That the attention of the Government to is what I find on reading article 274. certain anomalies which will ariae out of this amendment. Section 80* Mr. Depnty-Speaker: What I could of the- original Act says: understand was that all this, variation, alterations, reductions, are included in “Where any fees have been the words used. paid under any law relating to courMees in force in any State Shri V. P. Nayar: You may kindly other than the State of Jammu read the article. We know what is and Kashmir for obtaining pro Imposition and what is variation. bate, letters of administration or a These are the only two acts in respect succession certificate in respect o f of which a taxation law ought to any property on which estate' be supported by the States. duty is leviable under thie Act, the amount of the estate duty Mr. Deputy.Speaker: Some tax is payable shall be reduced by an being collected under the Estate Duty amount which is equal to the Bill. Now, it is desired that that court-fees so paid.” amount should not be collected, but something less should be collected. Now, the amendment is that it wiQ be reduced by half, that is to say h alf Sari V. P. Nayar: That is not the of the court-fees get deducted. May point. I know in oases where the court-fbfr iHtsfate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 1858 (Amendment) Bill 3982.

£Kjr^t>ta Is much higher than the of the original Act which is further •state duty what happens? Let us amended by this clause 12. I feel that take a concrete case of a person who this will create an anomaly. The dies with im estate worth Rs. 60,000. Government with a sense of illusion We know that he will be liable to are spreading thfeir net wider, but pay an estate duty of Rs. 400 only. probably the total yield of the tax But suppose for collecting that may be lower than what they expcct. Us. 60,000 he has to go to the court for obtaining a succession certificate. Dr. B. Gopala Beddi: After all,, there is no amendment to this effect. He has to pay a court-fee of Es. 1,800. But, he is giving us more money than Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Then he does we are asking for. That would be not pay any estate duty at all. disadvantageous to the party. Shri Supakar: You will get less- Shri Supakar: I wish to know whe than what you expect. ther Government will pay him this Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: It will be Rs. 500 that he incurred extra. less than what we expect. The next question is that it would Mr. Deputy-Speaker: But more than- have been better if the Government what he wants. had taken into consideration an amendment which was sought to be Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Previously moved by my hon. friend, Shn Jadhav, the entire probate duty was deducted. but which was unfortunately found Now, only a half of the probate duty- to be out of order. It would be more being deducted. The rest, if any, equitable instead of giving a deduction will be paid as estate duty. If there of either full or half. It should have is nothing, he will not pay any estate duty. been taken into consideration that out of the total estate we deducted Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question the amount ,of court-fees paid and on is: the balance we calculated the estate duty. That would have been most “That clause 18 stands part of equitable and most proper. the Bill.”

Dr. B. Gopala Beddi: That would The motion was adopted. be disadvantageous to the party. That Clause 18 was added to the Bill would be more advantageous to the Government but not to the party. Mr. Deputy-Speaker. Hie question) is: Shri Supakar: But that will be most equitable. “That clauses 19 and 20 stand part of the Bill.” We find that practically although The motion was adopted. the Government has come with an amendment of reducing the exemp Clauses 19 and 20 were added to the" tion limit from Rs. 1 lakh to Rs. 50,000, Bill. if there are cases which to courts for Clause 21.— (Substitution of new> probate or for succession certificates, I do not think that in cases even above sections for sections 56 to 65)* the limit of Rs. 1 lakh where a cer Shri Supakar: I beg to move: tain amount of court-fee is paid the Government will be in a position to Page 7,— realise any estate duty specially be omit lines 11 to 19 cause the court-fees are payable on the whole amount whereas estate Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Any other duty Is payable only after deduction amendment to be moved? No. This at certain amounts under section 33 amendment is before the House. 3 9 8 3 B ito t: Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 1888 (Amendment) 5 tB 3 9 84

Shri Supakar: During the stage of What it will cost in terms o f rupees general discussion, there was a heated and naya paise, it is difficult to .discussion whether the exemption imagine. Think of a person living in limit should be reduced from Rs. 1 the distant mofussils. How big are lakh to Rs. 50,000 and it was very the Controllers and where are their strenuously argued that if the ex offices situated? If a man has to run emption limit is reduced to Rs. 50,000 to the office of the Controller twice or it will work a great deal of hardship thrice for obtaining such a permission, to the middle class families because think of the harassment and think of money value has undergone change. the expenses and think of the delay. What would have been the reaction Apart from the expenses and harass of this House il the exemption limit ment, delay is the factor which should were reduced to Rs. 8,000? I think count in such cases. I am not speak 'that would have been perhaps a very ing merely of the heirs of persons who progressive standpoint and a very die with a small amount of savings; progressive amendment. I wanted to but this may happen in so many other table an amendment to that effect. cases also. This clause was not in the I resisted the temptation because the original Act. This is an innovation. Bill, as it is, provides sufficient pen I find that the amount of harassment alties and punishments for persons and the expenses that a person’s heirs who leave an estate of Rs. 5,000 only. will have to undergo for obtaining the I will explain how. Let us take a permission of the Controller for poor postman or a postal clerk or a exemption, for facilitating the grant of person who earns Rs. 100 a month and a certificate will be several times that at the fag end of his life leaves in the we could contemplate in imposing a postal savings bank an amount of high rate of estate duty on an amount Rs. 5,000 only. And, if I may quote of Rs. 5000. It would have been better Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava, he may if, instead of inserting this clause, we Also leave a family of ten sons. So, it had provided that all persons who comes to a share of Rs. 500 to each leave an estate worth more than .son. Rs. 5000 should compulsorily pay an estate duty at such and such a per Mr. Depaty-Speaker: He would not centage. That is why I move this be doing any service to the country amendment. as it stands at this moment. Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: With your permission, I beg to move amend Sbri Supakar: At the 1039 price ments numbers 26, 27,...... level, may be, it comes to Rs. 125 only per head. But, what is the liability Mr. Depaty-Speaker: I asked from that he has to undergo? You know the hon. Member. He did not men that the Government Savings Bank tion. Yes. A ct provides that where a man leaves Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I beg a savings bank account for more than Rs. 5000, the heirs have to obtain a to move amendments 26, 27, 28, 29, 30 and 31 to clause 21. succession certificate. A person who goes in for a succession certificate for (1) Page 9, line 13, omit “at any time” a sum of Rs. 5000 has to pay Rs. 150 as court fee. He has to engage a (2) Page 9,— lawyer for getting a succession certi (i) line 30, after “rupees'* insert ficate and probably that may account “not exceeding”. for Rs. 200. That is not all. After having spent about Rs. 850 or 400 for (ii) line 82, after ugreater" insert— getting a succession certificate for "as he considers proper but the Rs. 5000, the heirs of the poor man penalty shall not be excessive but nay have to go to the Controller for reasonable according to the cir permit or permission of exemption. cumstances of each case” . Estate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 1956 (Amendment) Bill 39 86

<8) I*a(e 0, line 85, for “equal to" not be excessive but reasonable accord ■substitute "not exceeding” ing to the circumstances of each case”. Discretion must be given to meet all <4) Page 9, line 38, add at the end— contingencies, and all kinds of “but such penalty shall not be breaches. If you do not give it, the excessive but reasonable accord Controller will say, here the penalty ing to the circumstances of each is prescribed, I have no option to case” . decrease it. It will be therefore absolutely necessary, with a view to <6) Page 11,— do full justice to persons, to give dis cretion to the officer concerned. At (1) lines 12 and 13, omit “which may the same time, we have got a provi include an order enhancing the estate sion in the Criminal Procedure Code, duty or penalty” ; and with regard to fines, that the fine shall (ii) om*t lines 14 to 17. not be excessive. Though the discre tion of giving a certain penalty is <6) Page 12,— given, yet the law provides that the fine shall not be excessive, and it must (1) lines 3 and 4, omit “and any be according to the circumstances of .such orders may include an order each case. Then again, it provides a enhancing the estate duty payable or remedy for doing justice to all sorts penalty” ; and of persons in all sorts of circumstances. The absence of those words here (u) omit lines 5 to 8 makes it incumbent on the officer to give only one penalty; that is a very In regard to these, my general high attitude to take. I should, there argument is this. I am glad that the fore, beg of the Minister to look at it hon. Finance Minister has got a pro from the standpoint of a person who vision in this Bill, clause 73-A that has committed a fault, but who is peni places a limit, which is very good. tent, and who does not want that he Otherwise, the harassment would have should repeat it; also, the fault may continued till the life of the successors even be due to some inadvertence. and perhaps till the lives of the grand sons also I am very glad that he has 14 hrs. put a limit of five years or three years in clause 73A. There, I find, the Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Suppose we words are, “at any time, subject to the say, ‘not exceeding twice the amount’. provisions of section 73A ___ ” . These Will that be all right? words “at any time” become quite unnecessary because section 73A is Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I have mentional there said ‘not exceeding’ and also *as he considers proper’. In the case of the rest of the amend ments, my approach is this. When you Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: I am prepared prescribe a penalty against any person, to accept a limit not exceeding twice> you must give discretion to the officer the amount involved. concerned bo that the penalty may be according to the enormity of the breach, according to the enormity of Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: I have the crime or offence or fault. To im kept that very limit, so that in all pose a penalty which is, I should say cases, the officer would be armed with fixed or rigid, is not fair. I have the full powers; I do not want to take therefore sought to amend the provi away all his powers. But he must be sion by inserting the words ‘not given the discretion to see that tha «xceedtatf’> and then again, “as he penalty is according to the circum considers proper but the penalty shall stances of each case, and the penalty 39*7 Estate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 18&8 (.Amendment) B ill 3 9 8 $

[Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava] should not be excessive. This is the that these powers may be curtailed warning that I want to give, just as altogether. it has been given in the Criminal Shri L. Achaw EUnyh; it appears to Procedure Code and in all other laws me that attempts are being made to that we have, that a person who com make the penalty for evasion less and mits a fault should not be treated less and be more and more lenient I very harshly. 1 would beg of the find that in spite of the best efforts of Minister to kindly consider these Government to plug the loopholes in amendments from this point of view. our tax system, they have not been able to cope with the problem of eva sion in an effective way. The next point that I want to urge is included in amendments Nos. 30 and The other day, the Finance Minister- 31. Power has been given in this Bill said that our collection was not satis to officers to even enhance the estate factory, and there were benami hold duty or the penalty in some cases. In ings, and there were concealments in criminal cases, for instance—and the form of gold and jewellery; and taxation affair is just like a quasi- thus, large estates have escaped from cnminal affair—in all cases of this estate duty. There are thus various nature, the rule is that when a person devices and methods for avoiding this goes to a criminal court or a court of duty. We find that here also, very appeal, the court has not got the few cases of fraudulent evasion are power to enhance his punishment; so brought before the courts for prosecu far as the sessions judge is concerned, tion, because the tax evaders are given he cannot enhance. But, here, the a big immunity from prosecution as appeals will be discouraged. Very well as from publicity, if they are many people who have got good cases ready to make a full disclosure and may be afraid of going to the appellate they are also ready to pay the modest court, because they may feel 'I have penalty provided in our laws. I find, satisfied this one officer, but the higher therefore, that Government have been officer who sits in appeal may take very lenient and also very soft withi another view and may enhance the regard to these tax evaders. duty’. I would submit that if Gov ernment think that a person has been In America, for instance, I find that let off lightly, and they want to appeal, the tax evaders are brought before the they may be given the right to appeal. courts, and they are made to pay I have no objection to that, because heavy penalties, and when they are it is fair, and we do not want that our called before the courts, a lot of pub treasury should suffer; and the person licity takes place; and the trials also who has to pay must pay rightly, and end m long terms of imprisonment. equitably. At the Bame time, it is no But in India we find that the cases use dangling a sword over him. detected are very few; out of ten cases of evasion, I think only one is being detected. I would, therefore, like that the So, I would suggest that the penalty power to enhance the duty may be should be more; it should be ten times taken away from these officers, so that or twenty times. In the Income-tax anyone who wants to go in appeal may Act, it is provided that it is only 150 go with a full heart before the officer per cent. In the Estate Duty Act, it whenever he wants to seek justice, is provided that it should be double, and not under the fear that though he which means 200 per cent. This is not goes to seek justice, it happens that sufficient. The penalty should be a ^ f t wpt i deterrent one, and it must be ten times is the phrase goes. Therefore, I want or twenty times. Estate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 (Amendment) Bill 3990

Dr. B. Gopala Keddi: I accept Shri Supakar: May I read out the amendment No. 27(i) by Pandit Thakur clause? Das Bhargava. But it has to be re “In all cases in which a grant of worded like this. a succession certificate is applied for, a copy of the application shall In Page 9, lines 30, 31 and 32, for be furnished by the applicant to the words ‘a sum of rupees one thou the Controller and no order enti sand or a sum equal to double the tling the applicant to the grant of amount of such duty, whichever is such a certificate shall be made .greater* substitute the words ‘a sum upon his application until he has not exceeding twice the amount of produced a certificate from the such duty’. Controller under sub-section (2) of section 57 or section 67 that the I am accepting the amendment No. estate duty payable in respect of 27 (i), and, of course, it is being the property mentioned in the redrafted in this manner. So, that application has been or will be meets to a large extent the point paid, or that none is due, as the raised by the hon. Member. The case may be.” . assessing officers will have some dis cretion according to the offence com My point is that unless he produces a mitted and things like that. The certificate from the controller, he is penalty will be a sum not exceeding not entitled to a succession certificate. twice the amount of the duty. Thus, So, this causes unnecessary harassment the officer will have a lot of discretion. to the person with no corresponding benefit to Government. The only pur With regard to enhancement, I think pose for which this clause was added that where it is an administrative apparently was to check evasion, but matter, and it is not a criminal offence that can be much more effectively or a case before a magisterial court, done by the income-tax inspectors and the power to enhance must be there. the estate duty inspectors going round Again, it follows also the general pat to the courts and finding out how many tern which is there in the Income-tax and what cases are pending and then Act, the Wealth Tax Act, the Expen setting up an inquiry. The present diture Tax Act, and the Gift Tax Act. provision will not yield any income to So, we are only trying to bring this on Government but will subject the com a par with the other Acts, and, there paratively poorer persons <0 a lot of fore, the power of enhancement must harassment. also be vested in the officers. It is not Dr. B. Gopala Reddi: Afier all, no a criminal court or a magisterial court elaborate inquiry is made. We have here where it cannot be enhanced. issued instructions that it should be In a revenue court or in an adminis issued within a fortnight or so. If trative matter like this, when it is there are any cases of delay and things discovered that the person has con like that, it may be brought to the cealed something, the court or the offi notice of the Board. We have already cer concerned must have the right to issued instructions that such certifi enhance it without referring it back cates must be given within a fortnight, to the lower officer who decided diff erently. and as far as the Board is 'oncemed, we have not received any complaints at all. We shall see that it is not Ag for Shri Supakar’s point, there is delayed. no elaborate inquiry made at this ■tage. No elaborate inquiry is made Shri Sajnkar: My question was when he asks for a succession certi whether something could not be done ficate. What was the point raised by to avoid harassment in respect of the the hon. Member? succession certificate. 3999 Estate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 (Amendment) Bill

©r, B. Gopala Reddi: It is better Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question If it is retained because even other is: wise certain provident fund and other Page 9,— people also require these certificates. (i) line 30, after “rupees** Insert Shri L. A chaw Stafh rose— “not exceeding*’ (ii) line 32, after “greater" insert— Mr. Depnty-Speaker: He wants to make it more stringent. “as he considers proper but the penalty shall not be excessive but reasonable according to the cir Shri V. P. Nayar: He wants 10—20 cumstances of each case” times. The motion was negatived. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: But that has not been accepted. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The question is:

Now, I will put Government amend Page 9, line 35,— ment No 38 incorporating amend for “equal to” substitute “not ex ments Nos. 27 (i) and 28 of Pandit ceeding” Thakur Das Bhargava. The motion was negatived.

The question is: Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The question Page 9,— is: Page 9, line 38,— “ (i) lines 30 to 32, for “a sum of rupees one thousand or a sum add at the end— equal to double the amount of “but such penalty shall not be such duty, whichever is greater” excessive but reasonable according substitute “a sum not exceeding to the circumstances of each case.” twice the amount of such duty” ; and The motion was negatived.

“ (ii) line 35 for “equal to Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The question double” substitute “not exceeding is: twice” .” Page 11,— The motion was adopted. (i) lines 12 and 13, omit “which may include an order enhancing the estate Mr. Depnty-Speaker: Which is the duty or penalty” ; and other amendment to be put? (ii) omit lines 14 to 17. Shri Snpakar: Amendment No. 19 w ay be put separately at 2.30 p.m. for The motion was negatived. division. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The question Mr. Depnty-Speaker: Amendment is: No. 19 shall stand over. I shall now Page 12,— put all the other amendments to clause 21 to the vote of the House. The ques (i) lines 3 and 4, omit “and any tion is: such orders may include an order enhancing the estate duty payable or Page 9, line 3,— penalty” ; and omit “at any time” (ii) omit lines 5 to 8. The motion was negatived. The motion was negatives. Sstvt* Dvctff 1 RKPra M i m t 1958 {Amendment) Hitt 3994.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There are no Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. amendments to clauses 22 to 27. The Member has referred to the provisions question is: of the Act and said that be is not varying anything so far as the contents “That clauses 22 to 27 stand part of the original Act are concerned. We of the Bill”. have not to look into the contents of The motion was adopted. the original Act, but the Bill aa it is introduced, because recommendation Clauses 22 to 27 were added to the Bill. of the President has been obtained so far as the provisions in the BUI are Claose t t - (Amendment of the Second concerned. Certain duties axe pro Schedule) posed to be levied for which sanction has been obtained. He wants varia Shri M. R. Masani: I move amend tion so far as those proposals are con ment No. 8 in List No. 1...... cerned, the proposals in the Bill, not in the Act So ter as that is concerned, Mr. Deputy-Speaker; 1 have dec his amendment would vary the tax lared at out of order. All amendments that would be realised if these provi to clause 28 are out of order. sions are enforced. Now, if there is* to be variation in the sanctioned Shri M. R. Masani: I would like you proposals, that also requires the sanc to appreciate my point of view before tion of the President, and because he- you give your ruling. Article 274(1) has not obtained that sanction it is out of the Constitution makes it very clear of order. that a Bill which imposes or varies any tax or duty requires the recommenda tion of the President. If you will look Shri M. R. Masani: I would only at amendment No. 8, it says that no invite your attention to the language duty will be payable on estates of of the Constitution which says ‘impo which the principal value does not ses or varies any tax or duty’. It does exceed Rs. 1,00,000. There is neither not say ‘an amendment which seeks to* imposition nor variation; it is exactly vary a legislative measure or Bill’. The- a reaffirmation of the status quo, the tax or duty today is the estate duty tax or duty that is in effect today; and the estate duty today is exactly under the Estate Duty Act of 1953, if what I want to survive in status quo. you will turn to the Second Schedule, you will find in Part (2) ‘On the first Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Let me quote* Rs. 1,00,000 of the principal value of from an earlier Ruling on this point.. the estate-Nil’ I am not, therefore, varying or imposing any tax. My “When a Bill is introduced, it amendment is the only one which does does not become an Act. Even at not seek to vary the tax or duty. I that stage, if it imposes taxation, submit that it is perfectly in order and it requires the recommendation of should be allowed to be discussed. the President. The Bill was intro Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Has the hon. duced originally. Subsequently, Minister anything to say on this? in a modified form as reported by the Select Committee it is asked' Dr. B. Gopala Reddy: We leave it to be taken into consideration. It to you. The Select Committee have will cause a lot of inconvenience, gone into this question and they think I agree, if something is done by that it amounts to varying the duty. the Select Committee and we have* to get the President's recommen Sfcri Nath Pal (Rajapur): The Chair dation for restoring it to its posi wants his views not on the merit of tion in the original Bill. I agree the amendment, but on the point of that it is not necessary because it order. will lead to a lot of inconvenience. 3 9 9 $ Estate Duty I SEPT8MBSS t 958 y 9 0 k

(Mr. Deputy-Speaker] You are not going behind the ori those various measures of direct taxa ginal proposals. So far as those tion like income tax, expenditure tax, items are concerned which were gift tax and now the Estate Duty Bill. touched upon in the Select Com mittee and if we want to resume I am sure the Minister has heard of status quo, whatever might be the last straw that broke the camel’s their effect, I do not think that back. The cumulative effect of all recommendation is necessary”. these burdens is that the middle class, which is the backbone of the commu In this case the Select Committee nity, is being pulverised and I think had made certain variations, and it is a political and economic disaster amendments were moved to restore the for which the Government and the original provision in the Bill as it was country will some day have to pay a introduced. The question was whether very big price. that required fresh recommendation of the President or not. It was ruled I am very glad that since we took then that this did not require any fresh up this matter two days ago, a very recommendation because the attempt great pillar of Government has come was to restore the provisions of the out with exactly the same sentiment Bill in the form in which it was intro «o which I am giving expression—that duced. The provisions of the Bill as is, no less a person than Dr. B. C. Roy, introduced are to be taken into con the Chief Minister of West Bengal. I sideration, not those of the original shall quote a sentence from what he Act. said, as was reported in the Press on August 31. Shrf M. S. Masani: In that case, I would like to oppose the passing of “I do feei that there is a great this clause of the Bid. The Minister point in having the taxation policy the other day in replying to the debate of the Government of India revis on the earlier stage of the Bill with ed because it has not given any his usual charm and in a spirit of incentive to capital formation.” sweet reasonableness made put a very • conciliatory and an ostensibly accept Sir, thi= is a point that many of u» able case. Now, he is trying to argue made in this House. And I am very that the 4 per cent duty which is glad that a pillar of the ruling party, sought to be levied on estates just like Dr. Roy, has come down ’'■'avily over Rs. 50,000 is not such a great on our side and against those who are hardship as many hon. Members had piloting a Bill of this nature. made out, that the amount would amount to only a very small thing and We ask why this Bill is being pur we should not work up any indigna sued. I am a little mystified. In the tion on this issue. The hon. Minister debate that took place in this House, knows perfectly well that this is not the hon. Minister tried to make out the only infliction on the members of that there were two points of view the middle class on behalf of whom and that the House was rather divided. many of us spoke. We in this country But, how was it divided? have to consider the sum total of the various forms of taxation that are I have taken the trouble to analyse being levied on that class and many the discussion that took place on this other economic burdens that are being Bill and I find that out of 12 hon. cast on it There is the cost of living Members who participated, 8 hon. which is the result of inflation bom of Members very categorically condemn our Second Five Year Plan. There are ed the move for reducing Ibis limit the excise duties that have been levied from Rs. 1 lakh to Rs. 80,000. O f the in the last two years; also there are remaining 4, there was one communist; SEPTEMBER (Amendment) Bill 3 9 9 7 Estate Duty 1 1958 3998 and, I do not know how much of the ciate the reason why this reluctance bona fides of that support is acceptable is there to accept a very reasonable to the hon. Minister. But, there were amendment, a very reasonable point 3 other hon. Members who supported of view pressed on the House, and the lowering of this limit. Why is the that is that that Bill was signed by hon. Minister insisting ' on passing the then Finance Minister who also through this House a Bill that the happens to be the Prime Minister. House definitely does not want? If But the Prime Minister signed the the hon. Minister is very sure of the Bill because it was a legacy from his support of the House...... predecessor who had just then resign ed. It is thus the dead hand of the past. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: But, if the voice of the communist Member suits I strongly oppose this disastrous the hon. Minister at a particular tim e.. change that is being made and I do hope that Government will not allow prestige considerations to come in Shri M. R. Masani: ..I am sure it their way. I think there will perhaps is accepted. But, I am doubting whe be State Governments which will ther he accepts the bona fides of that have the realism and the magnanimity kind of support for this particular which this Government is incapable measure. The point is, does the hon of showing at this stage. Minister want to sec through this House a Bill which has been shown Shri B. Gopala Reddi: I do not as not acceptable to the House to the want to add anything more to what extent that people have expressed I have said on this point. This is the themselves? The hon. Minister refer essence of the amending legislation. red to the Select Committee. There But for this point there was no need were happy times...... to amend the Estate Duty Act at all. We cannot give up the main principle. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Mem Since this has been considered ad ber should confine himself to the nauseum and also considered by the clause and not refer to other things. Select Committee, I am unable to ac cept the principle underlying the ob Shri M. R. Masani: This measure is jection raised by the hon. Member. an unpopular measure. The Members Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question of Parliament have expressed them is: selves against it. Why is it that the "That clause 28 stand part of Government thrusts this measure the Bill.” through an unwilling House? The real secret and the reason why this The motion was adopted. particular part of the measure is being Clause 28 was added to the Bill. pressed is, as made out by my hon. friend, Shri Khadilkar, that an issue Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question of prestige is being made out of it. is: Evidently, Government feel that they •'That clauses 29, 30. and clause would lose face if at this rather late 1 and the Enacting Formula and stage they withdraw an essential part the Title stand part of tht> Bill.” of the Bill. The motion was adapted. The origin of the Bill is this. It Clauses 29, 30, and clause 1 and the was introduced on the 28th February Enacting Formula and the Title were by the predecessor of the present Fin added to the Bill. ance Minister. If hon. Members will turn to the Bill as it was introduced Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Two clauses and to the Statement of Objects and had been held over. We may take Reasons, perhaps they would appre- them up now. 198 LSD—6. 3999 s ^ at* 1 SEPTEMBER 1*58 (Amendment) S a t

Shri V. P. Nayar: Sir, I am sorry that the incidence of income-tax fa to say that all our expectations—when this country is at the highest. He we sent the Bill to a Select Com knows very well that it is a recurring mittee—that it would emerge from the tax while death duty is not a recur Select Committee as a better drafted ring tax. The hon. Minister says that Bill, have given us only disappoint while he is agreeable to place a lower ment. Sir, I want to use this parti limit he is not prepared to touch the cular occasion to reiterate the point higher slabs. I have no time to give which we made in 1953 and which we details now. thought Government will consider. The hon. Minister, when replying to the debate, made an open admission Last time I gave details and showed that he was conscious of the fact that how thfe rates of estate duty calculated there was tax evasion in this country. in terms of money in the UJKL. vary I am quoting from his speech. He very much from what we have in said that: India. If the hon. Minister has any “ Since 1953, many gifts have also doubt I would again give him one or been made and many trusts have two figures to give him an idea of also been created with a view to how lenient we have been to the avoid the estate duty and things richer taxable sections. It has been like that." very clearly brought out in a book. It is exactly this point which we I find the hon. Minister has been well brought to the notice of the Govern equipped in this. He has read all the ment when we discussed the original speeches and he even repeated the Bill and, there, we said that if Gov very words with which the hon. Fin ernment were serious in collecting ance Minister introduced the Bill that the revenue which ought to be yielded it had a long chequered career. But, from the estate duty, then they ought he does not seem to have taken to have 5 years’ retrospective effect. account of the existing rates of duty In fact, we made all possible attempts in U.K. when he was fixing the diff in the Select Committee to have it erent slabs. I have made some cal dated back to the first date of the culations and find that ours is very declaration of intention to have estate much less than the corresponding duty. Failing that, we were prepared rates of duty prevailing in England to accept a compromise and we thought for such estates. I shall only give one that Government would bring in or two examples. Take an estate in amending legislation. We wrote in India which is valued at Rs. 20 lakhs, our minutes of dissent very clearly for instance. According to the hon. that it was not going to make any Minister’s schedule, which we are mentionable contribution. In the in going to accept in a few minutes, the troductory speech the Minister said estate will be subject to a duty of that after all we know that it will Rs. 3.79 lakhs— 19 per cent, of the make no mentionable contribution for entire value of the estate. I do not the success of the Second Five Year want to go into the calculations, now. Plan which was one of the most im I find a corresponding estate in U.K. portant considerations of the Bill. I will have to pay instead of 19 per want the Government to consider how cent, nothing less than 22 per cent. far it has helped the Government’s If you go to higher slabs, you will cause. They did not have the wisdom find, for instance, an estate worth l i in those days to accept the very valu crores of rupees in India will have able suggestions which we threw out. to pay 35 per cent whereas an estate Then again a point was made by worth that much in U.K. will have to the champion of the middle classes, pay 80 raer cent. The difference is Shri Masani, about the lowest rate of there. Why is that thev do not say duty. Last time I gave figures and about this. Is it equated in terms of I heard Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava what is obtaining in Australia. Canada, interrupting us yesterday and saying or Japan or UJC? Why i# it that the Estate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER IMS (Amendment) Bill 40'2

Government shows unwarranted sym Mr. Depnty-Speaker: He should pathy to the people of the higher conclude now. incomes? Shri V. P. Nayar: As you insist, I shall resume my seat. We want more finances for the Second Plan. We may be prepared to Mr. Depaty-Speaker: I am sorry; agree that the lower limit may be I have to insist. I shall now put the raised a little bit but why is it that it amendment of Shri Naushir Bharucha is not possible for the Government to to the vote of the House. equate the rate of duty with what is Sardar A. S. Saigal (Janjgir): Shri obtaining in England in respect of the Bharucha is not here higher taxable sections? I have a Mr. Deputy Speaker: It does not feeling that these meagre provisions matter. I shall now put amendment which were sought to be introduced in No. 12 to the vote of the House. The the original Bill have been whittled question is: down in the Select Committee. This Page 4,— aspect of the problem was not at all considered by the Select Committee ■omit lines 35 to 40. in the manner in which it deserves The Lok Sabha divided. Ayes 9; to be considered. Noes 96. Division No. 3] AYES [14.37 hrs, Chandramani K*l°> Shri Matin, Qazi Siva Raj, Shri Dige, Shri Patel, Shri P. R. Sonulc, Shri H. N. Mahanty, Shri Prodhan, Shri B. C. Supakar, Shri NOES Arumugham, Shri R.S. Madhusudan Rao, Shri Ranc, Shri Balakrishnan, Shri Malvjya, Shri Motilal Rang*, Shri Barman, Shri Mandal, Shri } Rao. Shri Jaganatha Bar u pal, Shri P.L. Mathur, Shri Harish Chandra Rao, Shri T.B. Vittal Basumatari, Shri Mehta, Shrimati Krishna Reddy, Shn Rami Bhakat Darshan, Shri Minimata, Shrimati Roy, Shri Bishwanath Bidari, Shri Mishra, Shri Bibhuti Rungsung Sum, Shn Boroooh, Shri P.G Mishra, Shri M .P . Sadhu Ram, Shn Brahm Pcrknsh, Ch. Mura, Shn R.D. Sahu, Shri Bhagabnt Chandra Shankcr, Shri M ura Shri R .ll. Satgal, Sardar A. S. Chaturvcdi, Shn Munisamy, Shri N.R. Samantsinhar, Dr. Chcttiar. Shn R. Ramanathan Murm u, shri Paika Satyabhama Devi, Shrimati D ai, Shri N T . Murti, Shn M.S. Satyanarayana, Shri De*, Shn Shrce Narayan Naidu, Shn Govindarajalu Selku, Shn Deo, Shn Shanker Nayar, Shri V.P. Shankaraiya, Shri D indod, Shri Nehru, Shrimati Urns Siddananjappa, Shri Dube, Shri Mulchand Neswai, Shn Stngh, Shri M.N. Elayaperumol, Shri Padam Dev, Shn Sinha, Shri Satyendra Narayan Gandhi, Shri Peroze Panigrahi, Shri Sinhasan Singh, Shn Gandhi, Shn M.M. Panna Lai, Shn Snatak, Shri Nardeo Ghoahal, Shn Parmar, Shn Deen Bandhu Subbarayan, Dr. P, G hoac, Shri N .R, Patel, Shn N.N. Subramanyam, Shri T. Gounder, Shri K. Penatwami Patel, Shri Rajeshwar Sumat Prasad, Shn Harvani, Shri Ansar PilJui, Shu Thanu Tangnmani, Shti Han&da, Shri Subodh Prabhakar, Shri Naval Tariq, Shn A M. Heda, Shri Raghubir Sahai, Shri Thimmaiah, Shri Jain, Shri M .C . Raghunath Singh, Shri Tula Ram, Shn Jiaachamfran, Shri Rajiah, Shri Umrao Singh, Shn JUiliwal, Shri Ram Krtihan, Shri Vedakumari, Kuraari M. Kayal, Shri P.N. Ramananda Tirtha, Swami Venkatasubbaiah, Shri K* ana Shri C.M. Ramaswamy, Shri K.S. Verma, Shri Ramji Kur«el, Sfari B.N. Ramaswamy, Shri P. Vyai, Shri Radhelal The motion was negatived 4003 Estate Duty 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 {Amendment) Bill PaBdit Tbakur Das Bhargava: I 14-S8 hr*. voting for ayes. BANARAS HINDU UNIVERSITY Ch. Ranbir Singh (Rohtak): I am (AMENDMENT) BILL voting for noes; I do not know how Mr. Depaty-Speaker: The House it has reflected. N eutral.... (.Inter will now take up the Banaras Hindu ruptions.) University (Amendment) Bill, 1968 as reported by the Select Committee. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: If he does not Four hours have been allotted for all know how it is reflected there, he the stages of the Bill. should not worry. Now, I shall put clause 13 as amended to the vote of Shri Braj Raj Singh (Firozabad): the House. The question is: Five hours.

“That clause 13, as amended, Mr. Deputy-Speaker: One hour at stand part of the Bill.” the discretion of the Chair. Now, I would like to take the sense of the The motion was adopted. House as to how these four hours should be distributed among the Clause 13, as amended, was added to various stages. the Bill. Shri Braj Raj Singh: Four hours t'or Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There is an general discussion. other amendment heid over—No. 19. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: And nothing I shall put that to the vote of the for the clauses? For the present, we House. The question is: have to divide the four hours we Page 7,— have got. Shri Braj Raj Singh: 3J hours and “omit lines 11 to 19.” half an hour. The motion was negatived. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There ought to be some time for the clauses also. Mr. Depaty-Speaker: The question I think three hours may be allotted is: for the general discussion and one hour for clause-by-clause considera “That Clause 21, as amended, tion and the third reading also. stand part of the Bill” The Minister of Education (Dr. K. L. The motion was adopted. Shrimali): Sir, I beg to move: “That the Bill further to amend Clause 21, as amended, was added to the Banaras Hindu University Act, the Bill. 1915, a; reported by the Select Shri B. Gopala Reddi: Sir, I beg to Committee, be taken into consi move: deration.” “That the Bill, as amended, be Sir, in making this motion, I would passed.” not like to take the time of the House and go over all the arguments which Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question I advanced in introducing this mea is: sure. The Select Committee has fully considered this Bill and has made two “That the Bill, as amended, be major changes in the Bill. One re passed.” lates to statute 29 of the draft Bill with regard to the constitution of the The motion was adopted. Selection Committee. In the draft Bill it was stipulated that the Selec tion Committee should consist of such 4"X55 Banarat 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Hindu University 4006 (Amendment) Bill persons as the Executive Council anxious that there should be no might appoint, and the procedure to be harassment of any kind and that the followed by the Selection Committee ends of justice should be fully met. in making recommendations was to The members of the Executive Council be determined by the Executive Com who were holding teaching, admini mittee, and if the Executive Commit strative and other posts in thf> univer tee was unable to accept any recom sity on 14th June 1958 have also been mendations made by the Selection brought within the scope cf this Committee, it should record its rea clause, and it has been further pro sons and submit the case for the- vided that they cannot take part in Visitor’s final orders. the meetings of the Executive Coun cil in which recommendations of the There was a great deal of discus Reviewing Committee relating to them sion in the Select Committee, and are considered I would like to sub ultimately it was decided that the mit that as far as the Reviewing Com composition of the Selection Commit mittee is concerned, this provision is tee should be specified, and the pro essential and indispensable if we want vision which has now been made is to meet the situation which has arisen more or less on the same lines as in the university. those laid down prior to the promul gation of the Banaras Hindu Univer The reports of the ex-Vice-Chancel- sity (Amendment) Ordinance 1958, lors are before us. The report of the except that there is no Visitor’s nomi Mudaliar Committee is before us, and nee on the Selection Committee, and for the last several years factionalism the Treasurer will not sit in the in the university has not allowed any Selection Committee for the appoint Vice-Chancellor to function effectively. ment of the Registrar. This situation has to be met if the uni The second important change which versity is to survive. If we are in has been made by the Select Com terested in the future of the univer mittee is with regard to the Screen sity, I think we have to get rid of ing Committee. There has been a those undesirable elements in the great deal of controversy in the House university which are responsible for and there was a controversy in the undermining the morale and the dis Select Committee also with regard to cipline in the university today. this provision, and ultimately the Select Committee decided that the When the Bill was referred to the Screening Committee was not a good Select Committee I had hoped that name for a university body, and there after the changes made in the original fore it has been renamed as Review Bill there would be unanimity of ing Committee, and I have accepted opinion. I think it would be a good this provision. thing if this Parliament could set up a convention that as far as the uni The re-draft of this clause brings in versities are concerned, we should the Solicitor-General to the Govern take a non-partisan view. ment of India into the picture, and the clause as it stands now provides Shri Bhaj Raj Singh: The con two opportunities of being heard—first vention that you should not interfere. by the Reviewing Committee and then by the Executive Committee. The Dr. K. L, Shrimall: I am coming Solicitor-General will satisfy himself to that. He will have plenty of oppor that a prima facie case exists before tunity to reply. the machinery of the Reviewing Com mittee is set in motion. A university does not serve any one To my mind this provision provides particular group or one particular a very valuable safeguard. I am most party. It serves the whole society, 4007 Banaras 1 SEPTEMBER KM Hindu University 400ft (Amendment) BiQ [Dr. K. L. Shrlmali] and, therefore, when we are discus responsibilities even when his case is sing matters which relate to a univer being examined by the Solicitor* sity, it will be better if we can take General or the Reviewing Committee. a dispassionate and detached view I ask the House: is this the way in and not treat them in a political which justice should be done? This spirit. raises a serious doubt in my mind as to whether they are really interested I am sorry to say that some of the in the welfare of the university. hon. Members, while giving their Minutes of Dissent have subordinated The only fault of the present Vice- the larger interests of the university Chancellor is that, in accordance with to the narrow interests of the party. the decision of the former Executive I will try to explain why I am saying Council where the representative of this. the so-called group were also present, he was heard by the Mudaliar Com The Select Committee has a^ded a mittee. There was no lack of confi new provision that when allegations dence in the present Vice-Clunceilor of the nature referred to relate to a till the publication of the Mudaliar member of the Executive Council who Committee Report. Some of the mis was holding any teaching, administra guided students and interested teach tive or other post in the University on ers have now made him the scapegoat the 14th June 1958, the Executive and have turned against him all the Council shall, without considering the fury which was actually intended allegation, refer the case of such per against the Mudaliar Comm’Uee son, together with the copy of the What has he done to incur tha wrath allegation, to the Solicitor-General to of the people? As far as I kr.ow, .*.o the Government of India Th;s pro charge has been levelled against him. vision brings the Vice-Chancellor, Pro Vice-Chancellor and the Trea There has been a great deal of con surer within the ambit of the provi troversy about his appointment, and sion. Nobod} is left out. Even after my Ministry has been accused of in this provision, the hon. Members, m terfering with the administration of their Minutes of Dissent, ha a de the university. Hon. Members have manded that the present Vice-Chancel referred to the statement made by lor should be removed. Dr. C P. Ramaswamy Aiyar at a court meeting. When this statement What is the fault of the present came to the notice of my Ministry, Vice-Chancellor? You have appoint one of our Deputy Secretaries, Dr. ed a Reviewing Committee. The Lakhani, wrote to Dr. C. P Rama Reviewing Committee is going into 'he swamy Aiyar asking whetuet the case of all persons—not only teachers, statement was correctly r<'pcirt<»d. but the present Vice-Chancellor, Pro Sir, I am reading the letter which Vice-Chancellor and the Treasurer Dr. Aiyar wrote to the Ministry on The Vice-Chancellor will not sit m the 4th May, 1956, in reply to Dr. Executive Council when his case is being discussed. I am sorry to say Lakhani’s letter—long before Mudaliar that malicious propaganda has been Committee was appointed: carried on by interested persons, and “I have just received your secret some hon. Members are not even letter of 28th April and own *o a willing to give a fair trial to the Vice- feeling of surprise and indignation. Chancellor. They consider that the The so-called report is inaccurate appointment of the Reviewing Com and mischievous and designed to mittee is too severe a measure for the denigrate the Ministry of Educa members of the staff who may have tion. been possibly guilty of professional misconduct, and they would like the There was a meeting of the Vice-Chancellor to be relieved of his Executive Council at which I 4009 Banana* 1 SSPTOISKB lfltt Hindu University (Ammdnutnt) Bill bad to mention the fact that I Sir, I ought to tell the Kouae that had communicated to the Presi this statement mentions many other dent of India and to the Education things and the statement was signed. Minister my resignation of the As far as the Minis cry Is concerned, Vice-Chance llorghip of the when this matter was brought to the Banaras Hindu University. It is notice of the Ministry "We wrote to also true teat Shri • Humayun Dr. Aiyar, and after he contradicted Kabir and Dr. Saiyidain had both this statement we did not want to pur spoken highly of Dr. V. S. Jha in sue this matter further. I would like response to my request for sug to read another paragraph from this gestion. It was understood and very statement which mighv interest taken for granted that the Exe the House. This pa-agraph has been cutive Council in whom lay *ho omitted from the statement which ws* right of choosing a panel should circulated to the Members—I mean be given some sort of guidance the pamphlet which was circulated and advice by the Vice-Chancellor and which has been quoted here. as on previous occasions. I relied on the opinions of my good Shri Slnhasan Singh (Gorakhpur): friends Humayun Kabir and Sai Sir, it would be berter if the whole yidain and told ihe Council in speech of Dr Aiyar in which he made strict confidence that persoi a in that statement is placed before the whom I had full confidence had House, instead of reading a letter suggested Dr. Jha’s name and that dated 4th May. This letter w is not I was willing to sponsor his choice given to the House when the Bill was though I was not personally originally before thi Hou>? Now acquainted with him ” that this matter has been brought up here, it would be m the interest of the House, I submit, if ■Ihe very speech He further says—and tha< u. the of Dr. Aiyar is placed beCcrc* the root of the whole trouble:— House so Lhnt hon. Mimbeds will have a true picture of the position

"I know that there is active Shri Braj Raj Singh: When the canvassing going in favoai of Dr Ministry was m possession of ih’S R. S. Tnpathi, th« Principal of letter, why did it no* place it before the Arts College, and against all the Select Committee which went into other candidates including Dr. Jha. the matter very thoroughly? I have also made it plain that speaking personally and in view of the situation (political, party Dr. K. L. Shrimall: I will explain and personal) in the University, that also. This let:er was marked a Professor or Principal fr^m the ‘secret’, and I wanted to conduit Dr. ranks of the University stiff :s in Aiyar before it could be placed before my opinion unsuitable whatever the House I thought it would nit be his academic attainments' nwv b e ” fair to Dr. Aivar if we placed it before the House without consulting him. We, therefore, wrote to Dr. Aiyei. It is not a very happy statement He wrote back and said that we about a University, but it is there should not only place it before Parlia Then he says ment, but we should give wide publi city as far as possible. It was only “Evidently the new? lia; leaked after the Select Committee had prac out from one of the members of tically finished its work, it was only the Executive Council and has on the day of its last meeting or so been deliberately distributed and that we had received the reply of circulated with an ulterior pur Dr. Aiyar. I did not want to hide it pose.” from the Parliament, but from the Banaras 1 SKPTEMB&ft 1988 Hindu University 4014 (Amendment) B ill tDr. K. L. Shrlmali] point of view of propriety it was not think there is nothing wrong in giv proper that I should placi it before ing this kind of advice, and it is wrong the House earlier. to call it interference in the admini stration of the University. Shri Sinhasan Singh: The speech of Dr. Aiyar was referred to in the I would, therefore, ’•equest the House earlier Quotations were made House to examine the full facts in from the pamphlet that was published. proper perspective and not be cairied All relevant papers in the po.^ession away by false propaganda which is of the hon Minister should li.ive bsen being carried on at the present mom placed before the Select Committee ent by interested persons. If the and also before the House This letter hands of the Vice-Chaneellor are not was not even read out by the hon clean, the Solicitor-General and the Minister when he replied to the Reviewing Committee will take cog earlier debate, nor was thr letter nizance of this fact and will report to given to the Select Committee This the Executive Committee. Let us not letter has come at the lust This be prejudiced against him on the letter is dated 4th May, 1956. r-.uch basis of baseless rumours and vile before the Mudaliar Committee came propaganda in or anything happened It should have been placed before the Select I shall now come to ■some of the Committee. What I submit is. the Notes of Dissent. The hon Member whole speech of Dr. Aiyar should be Shri Vajpayee had suggested that placed before the House some senior member of the Executive Council should become the Chairman Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon of the Executive Council and Chair Minister has given his explanation manship of the Council should not Whether it is acceptable to the hon tpso jacto devolve on the Vice- Member or not, he has given whatever Chancellor I would like 10 sub explanation he has got mit that this is the most extra ordinary suggestion which has been Dr. K. L. Shrimali: My hon. friend made by the hon Member. In our Shri Humayun Kabir is here. I asked country we have done enough to him what happened when Dr. C P. undermine the University authorities Ramaswamy Aiyar came He told me and if we accept this proposal the that Dr. Aiyar came to seek advice. I Vice-Chancellor will be reduced to a think it was his right to seek advice non-entity in the University. The from any person he liked office of the Vice-Chancellor should be considered as one of the highest The Minister of Scientlfio Research office' in our countr>. As the chief and Cultural Affairs (Shri Humayun executive head and the academic Kabir): I was not a member of the officer of the Umversitv, the Vice- Ministry at that time. Chancellor is the ex-officio Chairman of the Executive Council, the Standing Dr. K. L. Shrlmali: Yes, he was not Committee of the Academic Council a member of the Ministry at that and the Finance Committee. In the time—Shri Saiyidain was there. It absence of the Chancellor and the was open to Dr. Aiyar to seek the Pro-Chancellor he also presides over advice of any person whether in the the meetings of the Court. This Government or outside, and it was practice is prevalent not only in our also epen to these officers or people Universities but also in the Western outside the Ministry +0 give such ad Universities. The Vice-Chancellor vice as they liked. In fact, Shri has a highly strategic and even a very Kabir told me that he had suggested difficult position. He is to represent along with the name of Dr. Jha one the University on numerous occasion?, •r two other names. Perionally I preside at all sorts of functions, make 4**3 aanaros 1 SEPTEMBER 1968 Hindu Vnivertity 4014 . ( Amendment) Bill speeches before all sort of as.emblies, on their duties conscientiously and represent the University on various who are maintaining a high sense of committees and commissions and professional integrity. The Reviewing generally maintain the public rela Committee is concerned only with tion; of the institution. He has inose persons whose continuance in budgetary problems to face and some office is likely to be detrimental to the times also expected to’ raise funds for interest of the university. the University. If you lower the position of the Vice-Chancellor as The hon. Member Shri Khadilkar suggested by the hon. Member, would and some other hon. Members have any person with self-respect take up sugge ted that the court should have this position of responsibility? been kept in abeyancc till a compre hensive legislation of a permanent The hon. Member Shri Mahanty and nature is enacted. If the Government some other Members have objected to had taken this action, hon. Members the appointment of the Screening would have criticised us for not taking Committee—now called Reviewing a drastic action. The Govern Committee— and have suggested that ment have not su pended any univer this Committee wiil cast “ a criminal sity bodies but have only changed court” like shadow over the Univer their powers and function?. The court sity. The report of the Mudaliar has been a centre of intrigue during Committee as well as the reports of the last several years and therefore it ex-Vice-Chancellors have revealed was considered desirable that it how the intransigence of a small should no more continue as a supreme group has paralysed the academic governing body but should perform life of the University and under other duties and exercise such powers mined the University authorities. Is as may be a signed to it by the Visitor it not our duty to ret up a machinery under this Act. It still retains the which would examine the conduct of power to elect the Chancellor, Pro- all those persons who by their pro Chancellor and the Treasurer. Even fessional misconduct have been for a temporary period, I should not responsible for the present state of like the university to become com affairs? Recently, there ha; been a pletely disassociated with the court of enquiry to look into the con representative; of the departments, duct of some civil servants in the high colleges, teachers and old students. positions. If this can be done in the The members of the C'mrt have been case of officers of the Government of nominated and there is no risk of any India, I do not see any reason why it factionism during <.his period. : hould not be done in the case of The question ha; also been raised those persons who have been entrust with regard to the provisiun of ed with the most important task of increasing the representation of the guiding the young generation and who Members of Parliament. The situa have failed to discharge their tion is that at present there are four responsibilities and have thus betray Members of Parliament in the execu ed the trust which was laid in them tive council of the university, and by the society. these Members are inter alia ex-officio members of the court. In addition, IS him. there are three Members of Parlia ment among the Visitor’s nominees on The members of the teaching staff the court In the diaft Bill, there ip will have full opportunity to present provision for three representatives of their case before this Reviewing Com Parliament. Thus, altogether, there mittee as well as t'n* executive council are ten Member; of Parliament on (he and in this way the ends of social court consisting of 52 persons includ justice will be fully met. There ing the Pro-Chancellor. In my should be no fear in the minds of opinion, this provides full representa these people who have been carrying tion to this august House and the 4015 flonarej I SgPTCMBOT 1*58 Hindu CT*fe>*r#{iv 401s (Amendment) BiU [Dr. K. L. Shrimall] Shri Bn) Raj Stack: May I too* other House. When this revised Bill the names of the leaders? conies before the House, the House can decide how many members of Mr. Depsty-Speaker: Not neces Parliament should b<» there on the sarily here. court. Dr. K. L. Shrimall: They have As regards regional rv»pr“?»ntation, addressed the meetings of the students I have already give", an assurance, and have asked them to carry on the and I would like to repeat it on the agitation more vigorously and force floor of the House that efforts will be fully so that the Ordinance may be made for the nomination of persons withdrawn and the Act may be belonging to tho e reg’ons which have thrown out. not been represented so far, as soon as suitable opportunity anse;:. On 14th August, the student leaders threatened the Vice-Chancellor that I would like to take the time of the they would phy ically prevent him House in giving briefly a picture of from hoisting the flag on the Indepen the univer ity as 11 exists at the dence Day. Hunger-strikes, torch present moment. The university is light processions, speeches full of expected to be a self-governing com threats, violence a:.d intimidation, munity, but at present, then, is no law loudspeakers and demon trations of and order. A small number of nerve-rattling nature have become the students who, I ha\o rca on to believe, normal feature of the university life. are inspired by political parties and Do these incidents not indicate that interested teacnero inside the univer the university has lost its arademic sity have taken law in their own character and has become an arena hands. of political strife? I? ation and we Shri Raghunath Singh (Varanasi): shall return to a state of barbarism? Socialist Party, P S 1*. The students o( Ayurvedic College Dr. K. L. Shrimall: The hon Mem are demanding the appointment of a ber knows bettei than myself. The person who is at pro ent employed effigies have been burnt Threats of with the Himachal Pradesh adminis burning the Vice-Chancellor alive if tration. I made a personal request to he does not leave tho university have th" Health Minister to depute him but been given. The residence of the I have been u.forr.u.i that he is Vice-Chancellor wa ■ surrounded for unwillmg to accept the pnncipalship days together and r.ow the house of of this college. What am I to do? the Pro-Vice-Chancellor who is an How are we to meet such unrea on- old man—I am told he is about 76, able demands -if the students? and I do not know the exact date of bijth—is being surrounded by the I would like to ask the House whe students. Some students went to the ther by encouraging such tendencies Vice-Chancellor’s residence, removed among students we aie building up the name-plate and have dec'ared proper universftj *-tadit\on~. For the that the Vice-Chancellor who had maintenance ^ot-^rcper university come to Delhi would not be permitted traditions, two things are essential: to go back to the university. Leaders the spirit of liberalism and respect for of political parties have taken full ordinary procesae. of law. They are advantage of the situation and are the root and branch of university life. exploiting them for political ends If we allow the students to develop without realising that these very false ideas of freedom and encourage methods would be used against them them to defy the university authori when they come into power. ties we cut at the roots of university Hindu University x 4 0*7 ■Bajwf#* 1 SXPTXaiBKR 1858 40 8 {Amendment) Bill tradition. The Mudaliar Committee Shri B ftm m th Stagh: Yes; we are baa made some references to some also here. undesirable activities of some of the students. The Committee had no Mr. Depaty-Speaker:...... who bad intention to bring slur on the whole not sent their names but who may wish student community of the university. to speak. Altogether, we have got Some painful incidents* were brought three hours, and there must be, on the to their notice by some respon ible whol£, I think two dozen Members. persons, and they nave brought them Even with the additional hour to our notice not with a view to promised by 'he Speaker added, we condemn the student community, but ’ ’l.ive four iioiii.'s at the most. Half with a view to give them better a 1 '1 jut has already been taken up. guidance. The members of the com 'xuerefo: e, I request the hon. Members mittee are interested in the future of to be very brief so that a large the young generation as much as we number of Members mn_v be accom are, and they are anxious that the modated. Could we put a limit of university students may set up high about 15 minutes for each Member, in moral standards so that they may be the normal cour.e? worthy of our noble heritage and culture. Several Hon. Members: Yes, yes.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That may be The report alao contains some all right, becaujo, at this stage, quotations from the memorandum perhaps all the controversy that we submitted to the committee which had during the first staê may not be contains the unfortunate references to opened again. Now, we can confine eastern Uttar Pradesh. Thsre is no ourselve to the alterations made or intention on the Dart of the committee those that ought to have been made to condemn the whoie of eastern Utlar and have not been made. Pradesh which is a part of our country—a v ita l and organic part. Shri Braj Raj Singh: The hon. They only referred to a sm a ll group Minister has read a sioxy, and we of people inside the umvei>ity who have got to refer l'< it. have not maintained high professional conduct and have brought discredit to Shri T. B. Vlttal Rao (Khammam): the university. Which he .shoula not have noimally done. I would, therefore, request the Hou e to consider this report and this Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is not Bill in their proper peispectno. The necessary that whatt ver he has said university is suffering from a chronic hould be again r'-êrred to. While disease, and let u=; not do anything by dealing with the provisions of this word or deed to aggravate its nalady. Bill, hon. Member* might make a passing reference to it, but that does Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Motion not become an issue to be decided moved: here by the Parliament We havfw now the provision > of th^ Bill and we have to look it.to them and see "That the Bi'l further to amend whether we can improvo upon them. the Banaras Hindu University Act. 1915, as reported by the Shri Braj Raj Singh: We agree that Select Committee, be taken into we have to concentrate on the provi con ideration” . sions of the Bill, but the hon. Minister h ~ • not chosen to do it. I have to point out that I have received about a dosen names of hon. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I hope the Members. There might be others Members will not follow the same also...... path. 4019 Baiutrto 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 H indu University 4 'a o * (Amendment) Bill Shri Mahanty (Dhenkanal): In have the same deep respect and affec view of tne observations made by the tion for him. I Tefer to my esteemed hon. Mini ter in regard to our friend, Mr. Achyut Patwardhan, who minutes of dissent, I request that such was a student as we I as a teacher of Of us who have been named may be this univer ity. He hsd a very distin> kindly provided an opportunity to guished career as a pubiic man. He reply. has withdrawn from public life and he is living a kind of dedicated We Mr. Depnty-Speaker: Those who completely away from tensions and have an opportunity can speak cn that turmoils. He is not interested in also. politic-, elections or anything of the kind. This is what he says: Shri Asoka Mehta (Muzaffarpur): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, the situation "The situation 1:1 the Bannras that has developed m the Banaras Hindu University today and the Hindu University arid the problem manner in which ttie student that we are trying to resolve just now demonstrators were conducting are of a nature where not only no them: elves at present will partisan consideration can be shown, ultimately affect seriously their but no political att;tude can be taken. own larger interests. Any We are concerned with the welfare impartial observe: of the univer and the development of a major sity and a friend of the students institution of learning ar.d I am sorry cannot help feeling that the to find that not only there in the affairs of Ihis in titution have university, not only in the threat State been far from sat.'•factory for in which the university is situated, the last several years that nothing but even in f'r - august House, less than a drastic change ii tempers are rising and people are called for. In so far as the allowing themselve, to get divided. I Mudaliar Commission had also believe for a variety of reasons, above supported this finding, the tigna- all because whatever steps were tories find thenvseivet in substan necessary and corrective? need to be tial agreement with it, although taken have been long delayed and this they do not subscribe to every delay has resulted in the ossification statement contained in the report. of the differences and difficulties in They are convinced that the that great institution of learning. It Banaras Hindu University should i: not very easy to bring about a be completely free from all change. influences of political parties; or, otherwise, the situation which is If a change is to bo brought about, bad is likely to become worse. the students as well as the teaching The signatories appeal, in conclu community there must realise that sion, to tho e conrecled with the this House is not going to permit this present situation in the university kind of thing to cont!nue. We are to stop all demonstrations and to anxiou that r.o injustice should be free the university from the done. Injustice to an individual here unhealthy atmosphere which it and there to me is not as important as has been surcharged with in the injustice to a ^reat institution of last three or four weeks.” learning and to tens of thousands of students whore very life we seem to I did not speak on the previous be playing with today. occasion. I thought it my duty on this occasion to raise my humble voice I would like to invite attention to a in support of the appeal that Achyut statement which was recently issued Patwardhan has made. I woald like by a number of citizens of Banaras, to appeal to every section of this which includes someone who is very House to carry on this discussion in dear to me; and, I am sure a large a manner whereby the situation will number of Members of this House not only not get aggravated, but the 4 ° aI Banana 1 SEPTEMBER 1968 Hindu University 4022 ( Amendment) Bill student community and the teaching means, to acquire influence in the fraternity there will realise that as far various academic bodies of the *9 this House is concerned, this matter University, e.g. the Executive is not going to be viewed in any Council, the Standing Committee partisan manner, in any regional and the Academic Council. All manner, but this matter is going to but a few of the highest grade of be viewed in a manner wherobv this Professors and Readers are great institution of learning can once engaged in this unceasing and again function in the manner in which ignoble conflict to the obvious everyone of us here wants it to func detriment of their legitimate tion. duties toward; their students or in the direction of Research. Having said that, I do not agree Hardly any department in the with the hon. Ministet of Education. University but has two groups He seem; to feel that tlvro is a small which are constantly laying their group wh'ch i. lur.ctiomng in an respective complaints against each intransigent manner. I do not know other . . ” much about the university, but if it was merely a question of a small Mark the word, "all but a few” . group functioning in an intransigent manner, your j'rctning committee or 1 think whatever th« di ease, the the reviewing committee probably disease is deep-seated ai.d police would pluck out those undesirable action is not goaig to end it I am element out of the body politic of afraid that, just as when the admini the university But I have r< .id very stration in a State kieaks down, the ■carefully the var.ou; papers that were Centre takes over the admini tration laid before the Select Committee and >ou send a high-powered commis which the Select Committee, in their sioner to be in charge of the State, wisdom, have made them available to that kind of approach is not going to us. May I invite your attention to the work here. This university, if it is letter which Dr. C. P. Ramaswami to be set right, will hdve to be tended Aiyar wrote to the Visitor? I am very carefully. Under the Bill that reading from page 56, para 4: has been brought before u , virtually the responsibility* has been taken up “The background and persornel by the Visitor. If he fails, I am afraid of the University, due to uncheck we shall never be able to cleanse any ed and untowaul developments stable.-, in any other university. during several years are such that I have to devote eight or ten I vvouid like to remind the hon. hours a day to routine, petty and Minister and to my fellow Members of often contentious- work of a taxing this House about the heavy responsi character. Unfortunately, there is bility that lies on our shoulders. It is no one else who couid adequately not that the Banaras Hindu University deal with the almost daily is the only erring university. It quarrels and intrigues amongst is a great university and thing* have professors and their rubord'nate gone wrong there. Now, thing may lecturers and tutorial and admini be wrong in many other universities strative staff. Furthermore, the also. We do not want to toucli the University is divided into two >m other universities if we can help that. fact three) irreccrcjlable narfes By setting things riqbt in one univer or groups, partly political and sity, we hope and tiust that in other partly per onal in character, that univer ities, people will realise that seek, not only by open and this august body i.-, not going to keep unrestrained disputes among quiet if anjone is going to piay with themselves, but also through the destinies of the future generations engineering anonymous and other of our people. Therefore, things In communications ano by other this univerjity will have to be 4023 Banarat 1 SEPTEMBER ISfifi Htndu Untoeniiy tnÂ (Amendment) BtU [Shri Asoka Mehta] handled in a manner wheieby so far Secondly, I feel the students should as the other universities are concern be told that this House, and this ed, no police action and no Mudaliar H ou e ultimately means the people of Committees will be needed. If that is India, will not tolerate any kind of to be done, may I beg of the Educa demonstrations anJ excesses in which tion Minister not to show as if he they are indulging. 1 would appeal would like to plead here for the Vice- to the Education Minister, and better Chancellor. I do not know the Vice- still to the Leader of tbr> House, that Chancellor. 1 have met him twice he should invite a few Members of and that too v?ry very casually. this Hou:e who command tne con Perhaps he is a very fine person. I fidence of this House and command, I have nothing against him. But if we hope, at least evoke a certain amount want to set things right. Jet it not be of allegiance of the student com a: if the Education M nister stands munity there. Let that small group four square behind the Vice- visit the University and convey to the Chancellor and the rest of the forces Students our willingness to help them are going to wreck thu action of the in every po sible way. If more money Education Ministry and sabotage the is needed, we will give them; if more support that he is bouan to gather. I hostels have to be given, we shall be think that is not a happy w ay of the first to look into that. But we shall tackling the situation. 1 would appeal not permit the kind of things that a to the Vice-Chanci'!1or—his hand> small section of the ttudents are ma> be very clean, his conscience may indulging in. 1 would appeal to the be very clear—but I would appeal to other political partie: 1hat we should him to make it clear that he has no not trouble the waters in order to fish desire to remain. Let us make it m them. There are enough troubles. possible for someone who would not In UP itself thcie aic enough. There be able to arouse this kind of anti- is so much of mal-admmistration. pathie and antagonisms to come m; a there is so much of opportunity fcr healing touch has to be applied; a an} one, any opposition g r o u p that Screening Committee has to be wants to build up a massive case appointed; some people have to be against the administration. I say removed. 1 do not know very much there is any amount of it there. Let about it. But I want a different kind us try to keep away from this pro of approach, and an approach which is blem Let us try to contain it, contain interested not so much in saying: this it in a manner whereby we will not man is wrong, that niai js undesir allow any political predilections to able, that man ha-, to go; because it come into it. All that can be done is not that that we want That treat provided the Minister himself approa ment would have been just and proper ches the problem in a manner whereby if there were only a few erring here he will reduce, and not aggravate, the and there and a vast majority of the opposition that is there to some of the teaching staff was behaving proper measures that he is supporting. ly. But that does not seem to be the case, as Mr. C. P. Ramaswami Ayyar I do not know if I have been able has stated. If that h so, a different to communicate my feelings to you. I approach is necessary. I am not con have only one more point, and that cerned with amendments. is a very small point. Three Mem bers of Parliament are to be there. It is suggested that the Speaker and the I am concerned with approach, Chairman should nominate them. I do because no matter what law you pass not agree. Seven of our distinguished here, unless the right approach h colleagues have already been nomi provided, the laws are not going to nated by the Visitor or by the Educa bring about the changes that we tion Ministry. Three of oar colleagues, desire there. therefore, should be permitted to lye Hindu University 4026 4 » 3 Btmamg 1 SZPTEMBSSl 1958 (.Amendment) Bill appointed by us. I have the greatest ot the PSP, SP and communist party. of respect for the power of discrimina I would only like to draw the atten tion and power of judgment of the tion of the House to the threat which Speaker. But knowing the importance was given by one of the members of of this, let us see with what wisdom, the Congress party. I want fee House with what anxiety, -with what sense to remember that. So, it is not a ques of carefulness this House will tion of political parties. It i8 a ques elect persons on that body. Let not tion of individuals, how they look at that right and that responsibility be things. Here we are not to discuss taken away from our shoulders and this matter from any party angle. No put on the shoulders of the Speaker. one would like it. At least I can say I have the greatest respect for the for our party that we will not do it. Speaker. But here we are on trial, and I would like that we should be Here we will confine our discussion permitted, before the bar of history only to the provisions of this Act, to where we are on trial, to see whether the changes that have been brought we come out of it successfully. out by the Select Committee, whether they are going to improve the matter Shri Prabhat Kar (Hooghly): Mr. at this particular moment, instead of Deputy-Speaker, I am sorry to find the indulging in acrimonious debate bet way in which the hon. Education ween party factions or trying to Minister has placed the facts before strengthen the hands of the persons the House. I quite realise the respon who want to create trouble in the sibility of the House and of the Mem Binaras Hindu University. That is bers speaking on this Bill. The effect not our approach. I for one can say of it will be great repercussions in our that I at least will not approach this national institutions. Knowing full discussion from that angle. well the situation, I am sure no single Member will try to speak in a way Even considering that the situation which will act as a matchstick to the gun powder. But, of all persons, the m the Banaras Hindu University is Education Minister, I am sorry to find, not what it should be, I have not been unnecessarily created a hitch in this able to get from the Ministry really discussion on this Bill. He wanted thi whtit was the necessity of promulgat House to discuss this dispassionately ing the Ordinance, because from the and without any hitch. But I think 10th of May to 11th August he has not his fling at the political parties was been able to give anything that has rather out of place. I am quite con happened in the Banaras Hindu Uni fident that all hon Members, whe versity which necessitated the promul ther sitting on this side or that side gation of the Ordinance. He has re of the House, are anxious that irres ferred to Sir C. P. Ramaswami pective of whatever has happened in Ayyar’s letter; he has referred to the past in the University, we should Pandit Govind Malaviya’s letter; he all pull our weight together to see has referred to other things. But all that it functions well, at least from these things refer to the incidents "of right now. That is why we wanted the years 1951, 1952, 1953 and 1954. to discuss this matter dispassionately. What was the necessity of promulga But I am sorry that the Government ting an Ordinance? What happened spokesmen, instead of using words between May 9th and August 11th which are necessary for this particular which necessitated the Government moment, used words which will cause promulgating the Ordinance? Up till great harm. now those facts have not been placed before the House. I want to say that During the course of his speech he by promulgating the Ordinance Gov made some reference to the political ernment has already creatcd a bad parties. Some hon. Members imme situation which could have been diately stood up to say that they are avoided. It was not necessary to -4 'i7 Banaras 1 SEPTSMBXH 1M8 Hindu UntomUy 4-38 (Amendment) Bill I Shri Prabhat Kax] promulgate the Ordinance. As was a ground, a plea—to agitate over this stated by Shri Asoka Mehta, it is matter. I would say that the Gov not by police action that you ernment should not have nominated can change the whole adminis the Court. There was no necessity tration; it requires a change of of nominating the Court immediately heart; it requires a different approach. because there is no function of the That approach has not been made by Court existing today. the Government. After promulgating the Ordinance, the court has already It has been said that so far as the been nominated. I have nothing to Vice-Chancellor is concerned, he is a say against the persons who have very ■efficient man. We have got been nominated there. But what was nothing to say against him. So faT the necessity of immediately nominat as he is concerned personally and his ing on the court, persons who have educational qualifications, we have got been elected from the representatives nothing to say. But today centring of the teachers. It has been admitted round him all these troubles are being that there are factions. More than one created. So, it is necessary that in —two or three groups—are there. order to see that there is peace in the Anyone of these persons might belong University, he may be requested to to one or the other group and natural stand by in the interest of the Uni ly it will create a situation by which versity. I would wish that he may somebody will create the plea to again be requested to stand by even if an create an atmosphere which i.-, not unreasonable demand is made. It is congenial. There was no necessity of necessary that one person should immediately nominating the members stand by. The hori. Minister knows o f the Court, because the Court for the feeling of the hon. Members of ■all this time Hid not meet. The Court the Select Committee in this particu h now been reduced to an advisory lar matter. I do not want to say any body. According to the new Act, word about the Vice-Chancellor, but the Court is to advise the Visitor in I want the Government to take note respect of ony matter which may be of the feeling of the people and it referred to it for advice and to advise will be better and in the mtero t of any authority of the University in the institution that the Government respect of any matter which may be should make such a request to the referred to the Court by such au Vice-Chancellor. thority There is no function of the Court at present. There was no neces Then I feel that in the Act, even as sity of nominating the Court and it stands, there is a possibility of a nominating on the Court representa misunderstanding amongst the persons tives from amongst teachers who have connected with the Banaras Hindu been charged of having formed into University. As I said, there was no groups and who have been charged necessity of nominating persons. o f having been for all those years About the formation of the Court also, source of all these troubles. There in the Fourteenth Statute of clause 7 was no necessity, but yet the Govern we find that the Court shall consist ment did it. The Government nomi of the following members, namely : — nated certain persons. Quite natural ly, it may be the feeling of others (a) the Chancellor, ex-officio, that the Government wanted to give strength to some of the groups and that (b) the Pro-Chancellor, ex-offido, one of the groups had the backing of (0) the members of the Executive the Government. Naturally, if the Council, ex-officio, other groups today come forward to create agitation they have got at least (d) two persons from the Depart a genuine plea—I would say, if not ments and Colleges of the *0*9 Bemar&s 1 SEPTEMBER 1968 Hindu University 4030 (A m endm ent) B ill University, nominated by the and submit the case to the Visitor Visitor, for final orders. II the Selection Com mittee includes a member of the (e) two persons from among the Selection Committee, he will, while teachers of this University selecting, discuss certain things and other than Professors, nomi will again sit over the decisions of the nated by the Visitor, Selection Committee in the Executive Council. Therefore we suggested that (f) five persons from among the in the Selection Committee there old students at the University, should be no member of the Executive nominated by the Visitor, etc. Council because the Executive Coun etc. cil will have an opportunity to sit over the suggestions made by the Now, if we go through the letter of Selection Committee and if there is Sir C. P. R&maswami Aiyar or the any difference, in that case this matter letter of Pandit Govind Malaviya, we will be referred to the Visitor whose will find that on the question of the decision shall be the final thing. activities of these groups who belong Then the next thing I would say is ed to the teaching staff how, they that in the formation of the Court, have been trying to discredit one 01 we find that there will be three the other Vice-Chancellor. Now, to Members of Parliament, two to be take some one of them in the Court nominated by the Speaker of the and allow them to continue the intri House of the People from among the gue, 1 do not And any rhyme or members thereof and one to be nomi reason. It has been said that they nated by the Chairman of the Council are nominated and therefore there is of States from among tho members no chance of any factionalism. Even thereof. As has already been stated, I if they are nominated they belonged would suggest that Members should be previously to one or the other group. elected and here also particularly in They will be representatives of one or view of the fact that the state of the other group. If they have been a emergency exists today which has party to all these things before, simply necessitated the promulgation of the because they are nominated by Gov Ordinance, it is necessary that more ernment they will not have the same representatives from the Parliament partisan attitude, I at least for one should be in the Court to guide the cannot believe. Rather, they will feel working of the institution. In that now that they have got the support of case I would suggest that because you the Government and therefore if any agree to the existence of an emergency one of them is so nominated, they will and because the House has agreed carry on the same intrigue as they with the steps taken by the Govern were carrying on before. ment with the promulgation of the Ordinance there should be more re Then comes the question of the presentatives from the House and we Selection Committee. Most of the would suggest that at least there troubles had arisen out of the activi should be 12 representatives—eight ties of the Selection Committee ;n from the Lok Sabha and four from appointing the leaching staff. There the Rajya Sabha—to be elected on thf the eminence of Acharya reports had been reaching the ««"i Narendra Dev could be made to shed of all of us that the situation was Banaras 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Hindu Univertity 403® ( Amendment) B ill unhappy and things were bad, but that 16 hrs. things had come to such a pass was realised only when the Mudaliar Sir, the University is a place of Committee's report came. And it learning. Nobody should do anything to distract the attention of the boys was good that immediate action was taken, and this report was not allowed and girls from the course of learning, to thrust on the shelves of the Govern so that they may prepare themselves ment offices as many other reports for the responsibilities that are to have had the fortune or the misfor fall upon their shoulders. What would tune of doing. any one say to those people, be they politicians, be they teachers, be they Therefore, 1 am very glad that action anybody, who would descend to has been taken at last, and as was the level of instigating the students stated earlier, a drastic remedy was into leading agitations, as is being done necessary for this deep-seated malady, at Banaras, as has been done at and this action of Government has Jaipui? And unless this evil is provided that drastic remedy. There nipped 111 the bud, it is likely to go might be certain minor points in this further. I most heartily welcome the Bill that might need change here and suggestion that was made here a short there. The Select Committee has done while ago by an hon. Member that all an excellent job, and at the end of political parties should take a solemn prolonged sittings and strenous labour, pledge that they will not use students they have produced a report that is for any political purposes, whether before us I feel strongly that we it be at the time of elections or should accept that report and we whether it be at any other time like should impress upon the Education the occasion that arose at Jaipur or Minister that as early as possible a the occasion that is there at present permanent measure be brought before at the Banaras Hindu University. this House. In that permanent measure, any other changes that may be necessary can be introduced. A healing touch is no doubt neces sary. But how is that healing touch It has been stated here that the to be provided? A few Members of students are misbehaving. I do not Parliament or few other well-wishers for one moment blame the students. of the students can go and talk to the Wherever any where students go students for a short while. But the wrong, or there is indiscipline, I think people who are to be constantly in the blame for it has to be laid at the touch with those students, the people door of the teachers and not at the who are to wield a permanent in door of the students. It was also fluence over them are the teachers said that the hon. Minister while re under whom they spend a few years, plying to the debate might have tone and the mast formative years of their down his feelings in this matter. I do lives. Therefore, it is very very not see how any one can. He spoke necessary that those teachers be made with deep feelings and deep pain in to realise the folly ot their ways; and his heart that the custodians of our those of them who are prepared *to children, the custodians of the future mend their ways, should certainly generations of India, should have so not be victimised, or humiliated in forgotten their duty, should have been any way. But with regard to those so carried away by considerations of who are not prepared tB do that and a very transient nature, that they who will continue £n thefr undesirable have jeopardised the welfare and the ways, well, I am afraid it is necessary future of these youngsters and led that action be talten against them acd them into ways which are neither the atmosphere set right I am glad, good for them, nor good for the Uni therefore, that the Reviewing Com varsity, nor good for the country as a mittee is provided, and this Reviewing whole. Committee will do the needful. 4039 Banoras 1 SEPTEMBER 1998 Hindu Uvtvmity 4040 (Amendment) BUI [Dr. Sushila Nayar]

Now, the question is, should the are kept aside and people who in flhe Vice-Chancellor be there when the opinion of the Speaker and of the reviewing committee does Its work? Chairman of Rajya Sabha—and in I think it is absolutely necessary that accordance with whatever other pro at the moment there should be no visions have been made—will serve changes made as a result of this agi the purpose which they are intended tational approach. Ultimately, when to serve, should be put on that Court. the whole atmosphere Is cleared, it However, if other people feel strong may be time to make any necessary ly that this is a matter for elections, changes; and the Vice-Chancellor I do not have any particular objec himself might be so tired and fagged tion—although my preference is that out by the end of that time and so the nomination that has been suggest happy that things are at last restored ed should be stuck to. to normal that a change, may be brought about, and probably that will With these words I whole hearted- be done But, Sir. any change at this ly support the measure that tho hon. moment which gives any one the im Minister-has placed before this House pression that it is possible for them tb adopt an agitational approach and Shri Khadilkar (Ahmednagar). Mr push out one Vice-Chancellor after Deputy-Speaker, Sir, with your per another or make his life miserable mission I would like to make a brief will be a most unfortunate step, and reference to the Enquiry Committee’s nothing should be done to encourage Report But before making any such a feeling. observation I would like to make one thing clear And that is that what As for the Members of this House ever I say about the Report or the Bill who are to serve on the Court, whe is not intended in any way to en ther they should be nominated 01 courage the students who unfortun elected is not a terribly important ately are now showing, I feel, a point from my point of view. In a slightly mentally-deranged type of way, I would welcome that we do not behaviour there, seeing from Press bring election in this question at all, leports—I So not know exactly, what for the simple reason that we want is going on there now. to keep this whole business of tho University completely above election But, db I said, I must briefly maki canvassing and anything of that kind. a mention of the Report for one reason; because, the report is a sort Shri Asoka Mehta said we are on of diagnosis, and a remedy is sug trial. By all means, we are on trial gested for curing a chronic disease But I do not think this is the appro (An Hon Member. Cancer) of a priate time to test our soundness of malignant nature—I would put it that thinking or otherwise. I think there way. are plenty of opportunities when we can put ourselves on trial, and we Now, unfortunately, if we go will be put on trial. But at this through the document, one fails to moment-the one prime concern is not understand how these people have to test the soundness or otherwise of approached the problem itself; any particular person or groups of because, the defect is in the whole persons or even this august House, approach. At the present moment, but to find out some method by which there are two types of approaches, as the affairs at the Banaras Hindu Uni we see there. One is an ivory-tower versity can be set right. And I feel. academic approach, and the other is a Sir, that can only be done if political bureaucratic approach. Unfortunately considerations of all kinds, including this measure, to a large extent, from elections of all kiads, at the moment the Government side reflects a 4<>1T Banaras 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Hindu University 4042 (Amendment) Bill bureaucratic approach. The mem passed judgment of a criminal ber* of the Committee, naturally, character on these people? Was it not were overburdened with a great sense fair, was it not their duty, to have of responsibility. And before mak waited ten times before apportioning ing any further observations, I must blame. These are the boys and they say that I know there were elderly are behaving in a way not to our statesmen like Dr. Subbaroyan or an liking. There may be some instances other lady Member whose zeal for of gross mis-behaviour. But I feel social work is well known. With all that the Education Ministry and the this, the whole approach is wrong. Secretary to that Ministry who has Because, wtiy was this chronic disease come out recently with a very fine allowed to develop, and whose res book where he has considered the ponsibility is it? There is factional socio-psychological approach to edu ism, I know. The whole atmosphere cation, have failed to take stock of is faction-ridden, and the academic the whole position and leform it life has been disturbed. In my opi before publishing the report in such nion, it is not only a question of a way ‘that here is a disease; no doubt Banaras. It is a national waste students are to blame’. But there are Because, there arc people in this elders also who are equally responsi country who can hardly send their ble for the present state of affairs children to primary schools, leave Can you ever imagine that a Univer aside colleges We are trying to invest, sity like Banaras is an isolated thing0 as we say, in human beings, or that it It must be judged in a particular is human capital that we are deve social mileu. It cannot be isolated. loping. And wp say that we have not There is factionalism everywhere. I enough resources to develop this do not defend students there or potential energy of our country, teachers. I do not defend their con that is there in the coming generation. duct. I do not defend the growth of On the other hand, I find we are factionalism or certain teachers handing over Rs. 50 lakhs to this Uni taking a partisan attitude. At the versity and for the last five or six same time, if Government, who arc years rr fitters have been going from supposed to tell them whaf are their bad to worse. While making a diag responsibilities, fail to take note of nosis, the Committee ought to have the surrounding conditions, I am very frankly apportioned the blame. afraid the diagnosis is essentially Why I sav this is because I find some vitiated. Therefore, as soon as the evidence in the Radhakrishnan Com Report was published, they were mittee’s Report. I would not read bound to resent. Let us understand from that Report and tax the House. them. Let us take a little under But on page 462 of the Report, there' standing approach. It is no use is a very significant observation. tarring the whole community in Even then the number had gone up. Banaras with the same brush; it is There was no hostel accommodation wrong. Things were disturbing. The Com mittee has observed that all this is due mainly to the responsibility With this Report in hand. Govern which the UP Government has failed ment ought to have thought, ‘Here is to discharge or own. Therefore, the a case. A Committee of experts have atmosphere is being poisoned due to investigated, given us the full diagno overcrowding. That is one aspect. sis, where they have failed to take note of the socio-pathological back Another aspect is this. After all ground of the whole situation and when the Members of the Committee suggested certain remedies’. Govern pass such a severe judgment on young ment in their wisdom thought that students there, are they not their Ordinance was the remedy and as ■on* or grand-sons? Have they ever soon as Parliament was in session considered this Aspect when they they would come with a new measure. 4(343 Banaras 1 SEPTEMBER 1M8 Hxndu University 4044 (Amendment) Bill [Shri Khadilkar] face facts and go to the students and I do not, for a moment, want to be tell them: *My young friends, here goody-goody; 1 do not want to en you are going wrong way. You have courage the students in this. But let got the best opportunity in your us face the situation in a realistic lives. Let us. meet together’. way. And when I say ‘in a realistic way’, let us try to understand and Is there a provision that the Vice- feel, as the Select Committee at one Chancellor occasionally summons the tyme felt, that something is wrong students and tries to understand them, and the approach is not correct. So their difficulties and other things? If it was suggested—if I mistake not— that sort of understanding approach by our Chairman that some sort of a had been there, things would not goodwill mission should go there and have come to such a pass. While the if it went there, it would definitely farewell is there, there is fulsome bring about a desired change in the praise for {he students; at the same atmosphere An eminent Doctor was time, there is a secret report to the heading the Committee. When you ■Government. This does not speak approach a patient, unless you know well of our public life; this does not the background, unless you know his speak well of men who are supposed living conditions, unless you know to guide the destinies of the younger whether proper nursing is there, generation whether there is somebody to give a This is a sorry state of affairs little attention to the patient and take Therefore, I would humbly submit can- of the patient, you will not be that while you have come with an able to give the proper treatment. If emergency measure, do not go with you forget these things and say: ‘All the impression that now you have a right. Here is a remedy suggested. weapon in hand to punish them. That All right. Prescription Have injunc sense of punitive punishment will not tion’ Ordinance and other things bring the desired results; only a sense follow This type of symptomatic that they must be approached in a treatment is not going to bring about tender manner, in a sensitive way so the desired results. as to understand their mind, would Let me warn the Education Minis bring about the desired results. ter. Today we are in a fix. We can I submit that if Government are not possibly say that would be against going to administer this measure in any sense of responsibility—that the the spirit in which they have been behaviour of the students is such that acting so long and in a bureaucratic we should defend it. It is indefen manner which reflects the whole psy sible. At the same time, what is the chology of the Government, they behaviour of the Education Ministry’ would fail to bring about the desired They have got these two or three Uni results. I would like to warn them versities under their direct control here and now. I do not know the What is their record? Let them for Vice-Chancellor. My hon friend, fi moment think: when we are wast Shri Asoka Mehta, said just now that ing Rs. 50 lakhs on one University, the whole atmosphere has to be and if this is the atmosphere, m any changed. All right. There is a psy other country, the first and foremost chological reaction against the Vice- thing that would be done would be Chancellor. I am not concerned with that the department the Ministry— this party or that. Why not remove not the individual—would have been him? This is a matter of treatment in put on prosecution—not the students a particular situation. It is not any I am sometimes puzzled what has way derogatory to the Vice-Chancel happened to this country. There are lor because he has done something men of public standing, eminent men and he is not only responsible for all with qualifications. They have not these things. I do not for a moment the moral courage, unfortunately, to mintain that. But I wovld like to Banara$ 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 Hindu University 4046 (Amendment) Bill tell Government the sooner the Vice- situation, with an understanding Chancellor ig relieved of his duties, approach I may humbly submit again the better it would be in the interests that if you are going to maintain the of the University, the students as Court, have some people from here. also the reputation of the Central Because when we are discussing such Ministry of Edueatiwv matters and when we are vesting powers, we must have the fullest The second point is this. As I have support of the House. said in my minute of dissent, In the present circumstances, in an emer Recently, at Naini Tal. to avoid gency, keep it as an emergency labour strikes, certain conventions measure. You cannot keep two were established. I would go like that things together, a sort of formal to have them for the universities. So democratic body like the court round far as the younger generation is con about and emergency measures. No, cerned, so far as the student genera it Is wrong. Therefore, it would tion is concerned, we of all parties have been proper to suspend the and sections of the House must reach Court for the time being, keep it in an understanding and establish con abeyance. Even if a function-less ventions so that in this human invest appendage was found necessary, it is ment on the coming generations not entirely wrong to give representation a nP will be wasted and we shall to students, -teachers or departments avoid all conflict, all strife and all because In the eyes of some sections factionalism. Let us try to build up they are naturally suspect. educational institutions that would Jive to the highest ideals we have had And, thirdly—I will not take more so far before us. than a couple of minutes, Sir...... Shri Ranga (Tenali): Mr. Deputy- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Only one Speaker, Sir, one thing which seems minute. to be harmless today is to criticise the Government because that will not Shri Khadilkar: Thirdly, as 1 have upset the situation in Banaras. Pos said already, nominations have taken sibly, it may please a few sections place and so we cannot possibly sug also which are so much agitated in gest alterations. But 1 do feel that Banaras and all around and also this is not a salutary democratic those who are interested in some of principle that elected representatives those friends. But, even then. I am are supposed to be nominated either not able to discover whether the Gov by the Visitor or the Speaker. I have ernment is blame-worthy. full faith in the fairness of our Speaker and of the Visitor. But you Time and again, in this- House, so must lay down a certain tradition of many of us have been complaining democratic convention in our Parlia that the Government only appoints mentary institutions. Therefore, I committees and then appoints sojjae have suggested that it should be by other committees to examine those election and the number should be reports and later on appoints a high- increased. power committee of the Cabinet to examine that second report and. With one word I will conclude. I thereafter, it delays taking any kind have gone through the list of nomina of action. And, it has been com tions. Excuse me for saying this of plained today also that for a large the academicians that are there. They number of years Government has have a certain amount of rigidity, a been sleeping. At long last, when aort of aloofness, a certain amount of Government awakens itself, and academic arrogance as I would appoints a committee, possibly on the characterise, it with this attitude recommendation or on the suggestion therefore, they would fail to meet the of the present Vice-Chancellor, and Banaras 1 SEPTEMBKR 1«M Hindu Umwernity 40-48 (Amendment) Bill (Shri Hangal as soon as the report was received It is for the very same reason ws have by Government it took courage in made provision m the Constitution both hands and gives publicity to the giving power to Government to pass report and effect to it m the form of an Ordinance and then place it before this Ordinance, then, also we begin to the Houses Then it is before the bar criticise the Government I do not of this House If we do not like that find any kind of consistency On the or their judgment in making the Ordi other hand, I do really feel that this nance, it is open to us to dismiss them Government and the present Minister Therefore, I am n#t inclined to find deserve congratulations from this fault with Government for the action House and the other House also for it has taken the expeditious action they have taken. Secondly, there is this question of the Vice-Chancellor and the staff I An Hon Member The whole cannot be a party to blaming the stu country (Interruption) dents alone, nor can I be a party to blaming anybody for the matter of Shri Ranga: One hon friend says that specifically, either the students after 7 years The greatest tragedy or the staff 01 the Vice-Chancelloi that befell the Banaras Hindu Uni The whole lot of them, unfoitunatel) versity was the death of the revered for themselves, have got Into this national leader, Malaviyaji But, terrible muddle If this had been a how long could that grand old man tempoiaiy wrong one can understand, go on living for the sake of the Uni 'd>ing so and so is blameworthy versity7 He lived to a upe old age There is nothing special in thi;> kind and he died nobly with all laurels It ol malaise in the Banaras Hindu Uni- is the duty of the rest of us to try veisitj Every other University has and see that this University is pro been suffmng from this kind of perly looked after malaise eithei to a lesser or a greater ckgiee At some stage or other, in It has been said that for a number some munnci or other, action has had of years thr University has been to b< taken and it has fallen to the suffering from this malaise and so lot of the Banaras Hindu Umversit> little has been done That is exactly that it had to be taken in this way the reason why this Government has taken this drastic action and we In one sense I am glad it could be should congratulate the Government taken in the case of this University becaust it would not be possible for My only difficulty is how to recon anybody eithei in this country or out cile myself to this means of Ordi side to accuse our Government eithei nance That is my real difficulty I of partiality, on religious, political or made enquiries and I was told that various other grounds It is specially the report was not ready The consi fitted for sueh treatment It is a deration of the report was not finish national University par excellence ed before the last session was over My own nephew studied there; my and soon after that they had to take niece studied there; In every one of action as the next session was so far the families of the South you will find away In between, the opening one or other young man or woman dates for the University and the col who had had the privilege of study leges were coming on Therefore, ing in the Banaras Hindu University some action had to be taken and the For the last 35 years or more we action was taken. have been claiming it as our real national University Therefore, if any It does not matter if sometimes we University can possibly stand this have to make some sort of exception. kind of operation, it is the Banaras 4^49 Banaras 1 SEPTEMBER idW Hindu University 4050 (Amendment) Bill Hindu University alone that could administration from the side of the have stood it and it is standing it. Government, as Minister of Education, Therefore, I am glad that it has fallen to use their good offices with the- to the lot of the Banaras Hindu Uni staff as well as the Vice-Chancellor versity and not to a smaller or a and suggest to them with all respect weaker University to bear this kind due to an educationist that they should of operation. think about it by themselves, about the resignations. How they do it, in what diplomatic manner they do it is Next I am not anxious that any of another matter. Instead of that, hav the members of the staff should come ing to ask these eminent deans of to be punished. It would be a blot faculties, heads of departments and on the community, on the record of great professors and experienced lec educational institutions in our country, turers to go before a reviewing com that we would have to go and ask any mittee and to let their fate be gover one of the members of the staff of ned by the decisions of that committee the Banaras Hindu University to leave would not be becoming of either our that University in bad odour. Nor Ministry or of our Government or of would I like that kind of suggestion anybody, even of the University. You that is being made by a good number will be setting up a bad precedent. of our hon Members that the Vice- Unfortunately, because we must have Chancellor should be sent away. It some kind of statutory provision, this would not speak well of us. There is the best that could be thought of fore. I was not so very happy about but over and above this, I would like this Revising Committee either. If the Visitor—I hope I may say some any action were to be taken I would thing although it is the convention really like Government to accept the that we are not expected to say any suggestion that these people be given thing against him—in whose person a chance and let them behcue them we have an Indian who is respected selves well to the satisfaction of the and known for his saintliness, apart whole nation If within the next one from all the other great qualities of or two years their behaviour is quite his to send for these people and meet .satisfactory, we will retain them. them directly and put it up to them. Otherwise we would content ourselves Let the Government strengthen the with sending some of them We will hands of the Visitor by offering to not send them but in the interest of provide equally honourable place in the cause of education in this country, other universities for such of the pro we will tell them, ‘please offer your fessors, readers, lecturers and others resignations’. If any assistance is to who would be good enough to offer be given to them by Government in their resignations from this university order to provide for them, we shall so that the word will go to all the seek for them honourable places m educationists all over India that no other Universities, and Government educationist need have the fear of would be willing to use their good such things as dismissal from a great offices with the other Universities to and eminent educational institution accommodate these people. That like this. would have been the best possible solution but that could not be done. Having said this, I would have very Therefore, the present solution that is much liked my hon. friend, the Minis offered here is really good. It gives every ter of Education, to have agreed to possible protection, double protection incorporate a provision here, not or even treble protection for these immediately here and now but when people. Inspite of it, 1 would like the the next appropriate stage comes, for hon. Minister to appeal to the Prime the appointment of these various peo Minister as well as to the President ple in different categories on the of our Republic not merely as a Minis court. Instead of nominating seven ter but as the head of the university eminent Members of Parliament on 4°5* Banaras 1 SIPTB M B E R 1956 Hindu University 4&S2 (.Amendment) B ill [Shri Ranga] •the responsibility of the Government like to maintain. the prestige of Ihe alone, he should be willing to let Par Vice-Chancellorship and also the liament itself elect those seven peo present incumbent. Let not that ple also, in addition to the three Who Vice-Chancellor and let not this are proposed. I wish to congratulate Minister have a feeling that anyone him also on the readiness with which of us have any kind of a hard feeling he, has accepted the suggestion made about him. On the other hand, I do by my hon. friend, Shri Asoka Mehta really think that the Vice-Chancellor that even in regard to these three deserves a word of support and praise Members, if he so desires, he would that during his tenure somehow or the be willing to let them be elected by other he has been able to persuade the House. It would be in the fitness the Government to exercise its power of things for our Speaker as well as in order to take this power in such the Chairman to let this thing be done a way that this situation has come to by Parliament itself. When these pause. I wish to appeal to the stu people go to the Banaras Hindu Uni dents, professors, staff and the general versity, all those who are interested public of Banaras by saying only this m it would know that these ten gen that Banaras 'is being looked upon tlemen are coming there as the elected by all of us as a holy place not only representatives of the sovereign Par for the Hindus but for the educationists liament in this country. ail over India As an educationist I I wish to say a word in regard to wish to appeal to them to rise to the occasion and agree with us and the tragedy that has befallen us sympathise with us in this very hard through the death of our great national leader and revered friend, task that we have had to shoulder Maulana Abul Kalam Azad. If only on this particular occasion and support and sustain us in our sincere and he had been alive today and if he had genuine effort by seeing that the an opportunity of standing by my hon Banaras Hindu University really friend, his hands would have been comes back again into its own as It Strengthened and our hands would have been strengthened and we would used to be in the days of Pandit Madan Mohan Malaviya have had the confidence that the great institution that was founded by the Shri Siva Raj (Chingleput—Reser other national leader, Pandit Madan ved—Sch. Castes): Sir, the Mudaliar Mohan Malaviya, is now being put Committee has made three points in again on an even keel by the equally the report. The first is that a uni eminent national leader, Maulana versity cannot be run in the manner Abul Kalam Azad. But that harsh it should be merely by Acts, Statutes, task has befallen on the young Ordinances and regulations. The real shoulders of my hon friend and I success of the university depends upon wish to congratulate him for having the personnel and professors and the had the courage to have done what teachers who have got to do every he has done and also for having had day their work in the university. That the generosity in accepting the sugges is one of the main points. tions that were made in the Select Committee in regard to the reviewing This idea of a university has been committee and various other things. exemplified years ago in India. The creation of the Nalanda University In conclusion, I would like to make and the world-wide reputation that it only a small suggestion. Let him not enjoyed were due to the fact that it take this in such a personal manner had among its professors men o f very and look at the Vice-Chancellor as a high moral stature and culture. No personal question. We all ought to education is worth the name unless it be interested as much in the Vice- had a moral background and there Chancellor as he is and we would all were such people that carried on the 4053 Banaras 1 SEPTEMBER 1956 Hindu University 405 4 (Amendment) Bill work of the Nalanda University which members in a dispassionate manner had attracted thousands of people from and my hon. friend is drawing me into- all over the East and probably from a controversy. the West, making provision for more than 1,500 students in a cool and clear Secondly, the committee has come atmosphere, untarnished by political to the conclusion that it is an emer struggles and communal struggles and gency, an emergency of a critical unaffected by professional jealousies. nature, that the canker has set in and On the other hand, it was based on is of a cancerous nature. What else a moral background and conducted in would anybody who wants to rectify a very cool and calm atmosphere. I the disease do except adopt a surgical personally think that it was due to remedy which I believe the hon. the influence and thought that was Education Minister has done in this- prevailing at that period owing to case? But my surprise is that it has the teachings of Lord Buddha. So not been done earlier. Somebody far as that ideal is concerned, I wish asked: “all these six years or seven we were able to realise and recapture years the Government was in the those ideals for India once again so know of things, why did they not that we can get back the name that move” ? I personally think there was we earned in the old days. a reason. Unfortunately this Univer sity is called the Banaras Hindu Uni But unfortunately, this University versity, and the Education Ministry, unfortunately, was in the hands of a starts with the word ‘Hindu.’ The Muslim gentleman. If today there is Banaras Hindu University seems to so much agitation and pressure against lay emphasis on the word ‘Hindu’ and a Hindu Minister, Dr. Shrimali, I am it is a peculiar feature of U.P. which seems to supply the core of the Union afraid the whole of U.P. would have risen in arms against the late Government that it has also got Maulana Azad if he had taken strong ano.ther communal university—the action. That is my explanation. That Aligarh Muslim University. One seems is an unfortunate fact which one has to be a reaction to the other. Hie to face in this country. moment people thought that it was a Hindu University, then all the affairs of the university had been made duly I did not have an opportunity to< a matter for the Hindus, and more speak on the day when the motion particularly a matter of the top class was brought for referring the Bill to Hindus, who happen to be what we a Select Committee, but I think there call the Brahmins, in this area. TTiey was no cause for referring this Bill claim all the monopoly of intelligence! to the Select Committee at all, be all the monopoly of character and all cause this Bill is based on the Ordin the monopoly of knowledge. It is ance which is again based in its turn such people that have been in control upon the report of the Mudaliar Com of the affairs of the university, and mittee. I do not know what pressure what is its fate today? Its affairs are or pressure group operated upon the being bandied about in the streets of Education Minister to agree to refer Banaras if not in the streets of Delhi. the Bill to a Select Committee, and 1 Pandit Govind Malaviya (Sultan- hope the Select Committee, in intro pur): May I say that if the hon. ducing the two or three major Member will look into the facts, he changes, have not whittled down the will find that that has never been so? force and the value of the original provisions of the Bill. I shall be satis Shri Siva Raj: I do not belong for fied if the Education Minister could tunately to U.P. I come far down leil me that these changes, the major from the South. Otherwise, I would changes as he called them, made by be caught in this mesh of passion. I the Select Committee will not take am trying to speak and appeal to away the effect and the real nature -4E>55 Banaras 1 SEPTEMBER 193ft H indu Unfe>«*sitv 4(^6 (Amendment) Bill [Shn Siva Raj] of the original Bill, that is to take f e w s t f immediate action w ^ «rr 1 *ft *j* ^ tw I have listened very carefully to ?ft f c f a r f r Iff JJTff'T fT f * T?, the very appealing speech of Shri tw w m m x Asoka Mehta and other hon Mem 1 ^ - - *** **v -- ■ ■ bers All that they do is to make an «nP?T W FTV ;Tfr ^PTvTT I approach without action There are mfttr mm v* are occasions when one can make *5t *mr»r ffefr 1 1 -a friendly approach, therfc sfre occasions when one can make vrf&fa % (ft 4 wfar arrogant approach as somebody sug fr gested, and there are other occasions pft g, im f w xm*iMmv when people make what I call an g ^ f t * r * f f r appeasement approach Some of the | 1 siTTtf ^rrwr * 'I’T-fr *r# speeches that were made here today ^ W ffa T W IT fl z tjw w seem to be of the last-mentioned character, and it is a policy of appease *ft 3TT ^ t f t % fa fatf ^ ^ ment which some of our friends want btt^ t 1 to follow I think it is very danger m *r n ^ r r f a v gr *r ous m matters educational, particular ly m handling the younger generation spmw sn % ^ snfas I personally think that the whole I 1 -?^ hjjjt *t \h ^nr«rf«zr v thing calls foi actionj and immediate action, and that is what was exactly ^ ^ jfft- «fr * f a a r f * r ? t done by the Education Minister and ffPTff *r?f ^ n f TT^ f f 'T T sk stpt f 1 ij*! *T JTITTW't ^ ^ 5^1 % f ^ ^ fRTft-JTf smr HIT ^PTT W-5 ^ | crt ?rt«r

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* Half-an-hour discussion. 4<36j Import licences 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 for newsprint and 4066 prices of Paper figures indicate that paper had how is it that we find considerable touched the highest peak in the quantity of newsprint in the black- profits and the hon. Minister says it market. Anybody can go to a shop is not as if the industry as a whole and get any amount of newsprint they has made the highest profit. I do not want. The only thing is that they find any other industry in this list do not issue a bill, and thereby which has yielded a higher profit than defraud the Government in the matter the paper industry. of sales-tax and income-tax. I find that they ask fancy prices for news We consider the question of paper, print. I understand from a knowled we must understand that today geable person, whose name I shall not India’s per capita consumption of give, that in such cases newspapers, paper is about l/300th of what is especially the bigger newspapers, consumed in United States and about make a saving of about 80 rolls of l/4th of what is consumed in Egypt paper or more everyday, because the Paper is required for a variety of printing machinery today cannot purposes, for which we have no subs consume the entire rolL I understand titute. From children’s books up to that in a paper of a width of 36" and newspapers, for everything we require usual diameter of the roll, two inches paper. In this context, it is very bad are left in every roll. So, when that Government leaves the entire thousands of rolls are used everyday— price to the whims and caprices of the I understand, some of these papers manufacturers. I find that some big use even 1,500 rolls a day—a saving firms have a sort of monopoly over of two inches in every roll will be this industry. When you go through effected and it is calculated that every the list of directors in the companies, day a saving of 80 to 100 rolls are you find inter-locking of directorship. effected. I am told that it is this There are the Bajorias, the Dalmias, paper which goes to the blackmarket. the Birlas and then Karamchand I am not interested in knowing whe Thapar. These are the four or five ther it is this paper that goes to the houses controlling the entire industry. blackmarket or there is some other In this context, the hon. Minister manipulation. But the fact remains made the statement that the price of that paper is available in the black paper has not been increasing. Take, market and for newsprint one has to for example, newsprint. We know pay enormous prices. that apart from the windfall which generally the newspapers get by con So, I want the Government to consi version to Naye Paise, for which I der whether it is not time to cry a have the figures which I do not have halt to this and in order to prevent the time to go into, apart from their further loot they should impose increasing advertisement tariff, you stricter control on the use, especially find that the big group newspapers the import, of newsprint. I do not are in a position today, thanks to the for a moment say that newsprint policy of Government, to get import should not be imported. In fact, I of newsprint and sell it in the market would welcome it if Government gb at fantastic rates. It is double the ahead and arrange to import some rate or more than double the rate at further quantities on a barter basis. which they import Looking at the latest import policy, which was cur Then, taking the case of our own rent till yesterday, I find that establi indigenous paper, what is the position shed importers have no right, have no today? I find that a magazine which claim for importing anything and is published by Government, by the only actual users have been allowed Central Social Welfare Board, has bad to import in the last policy. I ask a to pay for paper for a particular question. If actual users alone have issue—this is my information and I been permitted to import newsprint, would like it to be contradicted—at 4067 Import Uetneea 1 SEPTEMBER 1898 for newtprint and 4 -3^8 prices o f Paper [Shri V. P. Nayar] the rate of Rs. 1*25 when it ought to vitally required commodity in which have cost them only Rs. O'55. If we claim that there is a positive in Government cannot get their require crease in production? It is ununder- ments of paper for their own use, standable to some of us that in an what is the position of others. article like paper so much of pro fiteering should be allowed and the When I look into the figures I find companies should be allowed to walk that even from 4-4-58, till 9-8-58 the away with such huge profits. index of prices of most of the varieties of paper has been showing a Shri T. B. Vittal Rao (Khammam): systematic increase. My source is the He will say that consumption has also weekly index of wholesale prices pub increased. lished by Government. On 4-1-58 the Shri V. P. Nayar: Consumption has increase stood at 108 On 17-5-58 it now increased but it is one-fourth at has risen to 110'2 in the case of print that of Egypt, let alone the United ing paper of Swedish origin and In the States of America. We want to carry case of white paper to 126 5 and in the forward our programme for literacy case of packing paper to 126'5. The which without paper is impossible. We hon. Minister seems to think that the want to have more students in our price of paper does not register any schools which again without paper is increase. So, I would submit that it is impossible We want good text-books time that some stricter control is exer to be printed and not in the way as It cised. is done today, which, as you know, is impossible without better supply of When I look at the profits of the paper various concerns I find that excepting Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon in the case of two or three, they have Member’s time is up. declared dividends up to the extent of 20 to 25 per cent. All these papers, as you know, are attached to certain Shri V. P Nayar: If you go through business houses The industry has no the list of directors in the companies control over them. They are control which own paper and also the manag led by five or six business houses in ing agencies—I have a list, but as the the country. bell has already rung I do not want to go into that—you will find that cer About the third point, 1 would once tain houses, as I told you before, are again like to urge that Government very much entrenched in the com should have a firm policy Govern panies and unless Government come ment must put their foot down on forward with a policy and see that no these paper magnates, because we such profiteering is resorted to in the have no substitute for paper, because case of paper, I am sorry to say that our demands cannot be met from out the future will not be very bright side in the present context. So there The industry is now clamouring piust be a firm policy and the prices through journals of the capitalist press should necessarily be brought down. for more prices I cannot understand It is not very easy, as I know I have why they should do so. Government had some experience of the Paper seems to be quite soft to them. In Control Orders during the last war deciding the future of this Industry, I when there was a motto written in would earnestly urge upon the hon every office "Use less paper” . From Minister—probably he knows the those days till now, prices of paper chemistry of paper manufacture—to have been on the increase. It is very consider whether it is not time to cry tragic that when we have increased halt to this profiteering and ensure production for paper as the hem. Minis that this vitally required commodity ter is ready to contend, how is it that is made available to the people at fair our prices also go up when it is a prices. 4069 Import licences 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 /or newsprint and. 4 7 7 ^ prices of Paper Shri Tanyamani (Madurai): Sir, the The second point that I would .like discussion is based upon two starred to know is this. The Government questions—Question Nos. 5 and 21— purchases 30 to 40 per cent of the answered on the 11th August, 1958 domestic production from out of these The first question deals with news mills. I would like to know whether print and the recond question deals the Government Axes the price, and with the ordinary paper. I would put if so, what is the rate at which the those two questions on each of these. Government purchases from these companies. I would also like to know, Regarding the newsprint, what I when this is sold in the open market would like to know is the import of also, whether the Government has tjc>t newsprint to this country from the any machinery by which the price is year 1954 to the year 1958. In reply fixed. Because, the reply to the ori to the supplementary question the hon. ginal question No. 11 was exhaustive. Minister then stated that there has They said, there has been a complaint been a cut of 15% for each of these from various people that the price has newspaper owners and if that cut has increased and owners wanted that to been affecting the newspapers, I would be increased by 3i nP. per, lb. and also like to know whether the circula now for fixing fair price, matter is tion of those newspapers has increased being referred to the Tariff Commis or decreased. sion. That is not satisfactory. I would The second thing that I would like like to know, in view of the increasing to know about newsprint is this. In rate of profit in this particular indus reply to part 'b ) of the question it try— Shri V. P. Nayar has pointed out was stated th ' th” Government has that it is to the tune of nearly 7J got a scheme fjr supplying newsprint times the profit in 1939—what is the to those smaller newspaper concerns fair price that they are going to fix. whose consumption is ten tons for the licensing period. I would like to know The second point which I would like when that scheme will be put into to know is. . . . operation and whether Government will also consider cases of those news Mr. Deputy-Speaker; Has he con- papers where the consumption even tinued the first so far? though exceeded ten tons but they may be really small newspapers with a circulation of 5,000 or 6,000 and whe Shri Tangamani: The first about ther they will make it flexible to in the second question. I am putting clude those small newspapers also. two questions in cach. This is the second question on the second point: Now, coming to the second question whether the Government will consider re. indigenous paper which is supplied the question of reducing the prices to from The Commerce dated the 12th those people who use this for selling July, 1958, I find that the installed books to school children and also note capacity for the year 1950 was 118,000 books to the school children—note tons and the installed capacity in 1957 books which are being used generally was 252.000 tons. In other words, it for school children, in High schools or has more than doubled By the year even Colleges—whether the Govern 1960-61 it is expected to reach 350,000 ment has got any such proposal. These tons. Now, what I would like to know are my two questions. is that the two new paper mills which are going to be completed during the course of this year and also the ex The Minister of Industry (Shri pansion of the existing units when this Manubhai Shah): Sir, I am grateful is completed what will be the installed to the hon. Members for bringing up capacity and how much it will go up this subject which has been causing from 252,000 tons and how much do some anxiety to several hon. Members we expect to be produced during this of the House during the current session year. and also during the previous session. 4 3 7 1 Import licen ces 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 /or newsprint tmd 407* prices 0/ Paper [Shri Manubhai Shah] The article to which my hon. friend If he looks up my answer he will Shri V. P. Nayar has referred to has find that what I said was that & few in some cases created a little mis units in this industry did make some understanding. Statistics sometimes good profits, but taking the industry can be used, some graphs can also be as a whole, it will be totally incorrect used, if not properly understood in to say that very high profits have been proper context, in a very wrong way. earned by this industry. As a matter They can be the very devil's instru of fact, some of the units have really ments if they are used in a wrong per suffered losses during the last three, spective. That is what has happened four, or five or six years. As compared with respect to this particular article to jute industry where the average which otherwise was very well in dividend has remained at 11.8, 10.1, 10 8, and 15.4, per cent, and to vege formed. table oils where the net return of In 1939, I may submit for your dividend has been between 11 and consideration and for the considera 12 3, and to a third important industry tion of the House that there were 21 in this country, namely cotton textiles, paper companies manufacturing all where the average dividend has swung varieties of paper including printing between 8 7 and 10 2, it would be easily paper, newsprint, cardboards, hard- appreciated that .. boards and various other categories In Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Nowhere 1957, the companies rose to about 120 near 15? in number and their paid up capital also rose from Rs 2 43 crores in 1939 Shri Manubhai Shah; As a matter to about Rs. 18 crores in 1957. There of fact, except in the ease of iron and fore, instead of taking profitability steel where it has touched up to 13.3, per Rs 100/- of invested capital for the dividend as percentage of paid- taking into consideration the net re up capital has not really touched any turn on the employed capital or whnt where very high It is only in to is called the net worst or the net fixed plantations and other plantations in assets of a company, the particular dustries which are of minor nature index only showed the rise in profit that 15 4 has been touched during the to the paper industry between 1939 year 1955 and some other years. and 1957 Therefore, what normally should have been a very correct type The reason why I am mentioning of growth was shown in this parti these is this. If it is looked at in the cular article as excessive profit mak proper perspective, as a result of the ing in this particular industry growth of paidup capital on the one hand, and the production which went If I may submit, I have before me up from 39.000 tons in 1939 to about a statement which shows the dividpnd 2,10,000 tons m 1957 on the other hand, and also the number of units or as a percentage of the paid u d capital and also another statement giving the companies that expanded, it would be returns on the employed capital to the very well realised bv the House that paper industry. In 1950, the average there has been absolutely no extra dividend as percentage of paid up ordinary profits accruing to this parti capital is 9 1 per cent in this particular cular group of industries. industry. It has continuously remain ed at this level and touched the mark It was also mentioned that the of about 10 to 11 rieht up to 1950 for price index of indigenous paper of the which the latest balance sheets are manufacturing units has consider py^lable. I am merelv giving these ably gone up. I mav draw the fi mires, because mv hon friend wa« attention of hon Members to mentioning that somewhere I stated the fact that when we take the indices ♦hat this industry has made the highest of prices, 1952-58 being the base year profit. with 100, we find that while the 1 1658 for newsprint and 4074 prices of Paper i n t o number of the wholesale price rather on the low side. There Ot all commodities in 1950 (taking fore, it would not be right to say 1952-53 as the base) was 109-8, the that in this particular industry, a index for paper and newsprint in that large number of units have made ex year was 80*8. In 1952, it was 102-S cessive profits. As a matter of fact, for the whole sale price of all com as I said earlier, Bome of the units modities, against which the index for have really made losses, and, there paper price at that time was 110-9. fore, there is no reason to believe that I am mentioning this particular year the price of indigenous paper charged because the paper price was somewhat by the manufacturers is on an higher than the average wholesale excessive scale or is one which re index price of all the other commodi quires any reduction. ties. Then again, in 1954, when the Shri V. P. Nayar: May I interrupt index number of wholesale prices for for a moment? The Minister says all commodities was 99-6, the index for paper price sagged to 83-6. During that the average profit is low. But I have the latest figures from the 1957, when the index number of wholesale prices was 108 7, the index balance-sheets. In the case of Orient Paper Mills, the paid-up capital was for paper and newsprint was 105-8. Rs. 2-76 crores, and the net profit for That shows that it was three points 1950-51 was Rs. 81 lakhs; in the case of less than the figure for the average Shri Gopals— that is the mill operated prices of all commodities. In the by Mr. Karamchand Thapar—the middle of August, 1958, when the paid-up capital was Rs. 1*32 crores, index number of wholesale prices while the net profit was Rs. 25 lakhs. was 115'7, that for paper prices also was 115-7. 1 am mentioning these Sirpur Paper Mills run by Birlas— things in order that there may not be paid up capital Rs. I -34 crores, net any impression in the House, as the profit Rs. 22-72 lakhs. I think these hon. Member Shri V. P. Nayar was are not small. I have a list of all pointing out, that paper prices some the others run by Heilgers or Andrew how had rocketed high as compared to Yule. other prices. Shri Manubhai Shah: I have also As a matter of fact, I am glad to all the figures and when I was men say that for about eight or ten years, tioning about one unit, I had Orient paper prices were very much lower Paper mills in mind, because that is than the average prices for all other one factory which is very well locat commodities. ed. They have made a little more profit than others. It is only because Coming to the question of very high it is so well situated. The factory profits made by some units, I can has the latest plant. They have the assure the House and the hon. Member chemical recovery plant for what is that I have looked into the profits called ‘soda recovery’, and the best made by about 28 paper companies, plant in the country. One swallbw and I find that except in one company does not make a summer. Because a where because it is located right in particular factory is very efficient and the heart of the forest, where coal is well located from the point of view locally available, where water is also of natural resources, that should available in plenty and at cheap rates not lead us to the conclusion that and the machinery is most modern, that criterion can be applicable to all and they have introduced Soda re the rest of the units. Neither the covery and some chemical processes, figures for Sirpur nor for Jagadhsri they have been able to make in a nor for the Sri Gopal Mills would few years a profit of about twenty to tend to show that the profits are at twenty-five per cent, the average all excessive. It is true that as far as profit of all the other units has been the Orient Paper Mills are concerned, import licences 1 SEPTEMBER 1966 for newsprint and 407$ prices o f Paper tShri Manubhai Shah] the profit is on the higher side, but the Government went into the price that is because of the productivity and structure, and at no time was the price efficiency of that particular unit rise allowed more than according to the increase in excise duty or due to It will be good news to the House some incidental.factors of cost in pro that when the entire industry came to duction. the Government for a rise in prices from 80 nP. to 83’5 nP. per lb., that is The second point raised was about a rise of 3 5 nP. per lb. this particular newsprint. It is true that there is an mill and another 3 mills wrote to us acute shortage of newsprint felt, as that since they were comfortably also of writing paper. As far writing situated, they would forego any claim paper etc., as against the import of for a rise in price. It is only the rest about 3 to 3 5 crores of rupees worth of the units which are really losing a in normal times, we are today not in a little today and working on unecono position to allow white printing paper mic basis that came to Government for and other varieties of paper other increase in price. The other day on than newsprint more than about Rs. 70 the question of monopolies my hon. —80 likhs of rupees worth. Due to friend was generalising, taking a few the foreign exchange stringency, it cases here and there, over the whole will not be possible—I hope the House field. will agree with me—to restore the entire cut either in the normal paper Shri V. P. Nayar: I never do that. or in newsprint so as to make the Shri Manubhai Shah: I would beg market even. It is true that in some of him that here also it will not be of the imported varieties, the price has correct to merely generalise o 1 the definitely gone up. But as far as in basis of one or two factories. digenous paper, which constitutes 90 per cent, of the bulk of the country’s Then I was coming to the very per requirements, there has not been any tinent question raised by Shri Tanga- substantial or even minor rise in price. mani. Why is it that when the profits are good, the factories are coming for As regards newsprint, we had re a price rise? As I said, the % fuel quested the Indian & Eastern New- costs have gone up; royalties in some paper’s Society to agree to a cut of cases are going up, various other costs about 15 per cent. Last time, they did have gone up. Therefore, the Gov agree and we carried out the cut. ernment are going mtd this matter in Some hon. Members have rightly ask detail. We have ourselves come to the ed why with a cut, the circulation has conclusion that as far as most of the not gone down. As a matter of fact, units are concerned, a price rise of 2— according to the statistics with the 2| nP. and even 3J nP. per lb. was Press Registrar, circulation has actual legitimate if we have to keep them ly increased by about 8 per cent, on working on an economic basis, and the average. thfet too on the total base of 80 nP per lb. which is the average price of Shri Feroze Gandhi (Rai Bareli): white printing paper. Even there, in When I made the statement, I had order to be sure, we have referred taken only half a dozen of the leading the entire matter to the Tariff Com papers and said it was about 15—20 mission and the Government decision per cent. The average is correct. on the price rise i.; only of an interim nature. Shri Mannbhai Shah: In some As the House is aware, in 1948, the papers, there may be a little more; in Tariff Board had gone very minutely some a little less. Therefore, the into the entire question of the price anomaly was clear. On the one hand, of paper. Again in 1952 and 1955, the Government enforced the cut of ju m in v e n t Wcrtees 1 SEPTEMBER 1958 for newsprint and 4078 price* of Paper •IS p e t cent On the other hand, newspaper industry is a very impor -the circulation has gone up. Why is tant industry in the country and it this so? This is a natural question. has got to have uninterrupted publica tion. Therefore, minor or major, Ih e reasons are two fold. One was every Press was allowed to have a that this cut of 15 per cent, was, stock of six months. Some of the really speaking, on the imported news newspapers instead of retaining this print We were importing newsprint stock of six months intact have eaten worth about Rs. 6 crores, that is about into that stock and that has also been €0 to 65 thousand tons and a 15 per partly responsible for this increase in cent cut was effected. That means circulation. bringing down the foreign exchange component to about Rs. 5 crores or We are during the current licensing Rs. 5 1 crores. Therefore, the quantity period and also during the next licen of imported newsprint did come down. sing period going to make it clear to B u t we had not restricted the supply all the newspapers that it will not be of the NEPA factory's newsprint to permissible for them either to eat into any of the newspapers. There was an the stock or to have no cut. We allocation from that which went up to are also going to warn them that make up the cut of 15 per cent, to a there was a Sort of friendly under great extent. standing that there will be no utilisa tion from this six months’ stock which Then, there was another factor. was meant for them as a buffer stock to keep going and it would not be Shri Feroze Gandhi: But was not correct for them to utilise any part this NEPA producing this newsprint of it however small that might be. before? That explains, really speaking this extra over 8 per cent, increase in cir Shri Manubhai Shah: Yes, it was. culation. But the cut was only in the import quota and not in the supply which Then, my hon. friend, Shri Tanga NEPA could make. It was over and mani, raised a question about the above whatever the Press Registrar smaller newspapers below 10 tons also. would have certified to a particular I hope my hon. friend is aware___ newspaper according to its circulation, page area etc...... Shri Nath Pal (Rajapur): It is 5 tons, Shri Tangamani: Has the NEPA production increased? Shri Manubhai Shah: Even the Shri Manubhai Shah: It has also in smallest newspaper, whether it is creased; I will come to that, if you below 10 tons or below 5 tons, is today will just allow me a little time. There given actual user’s import licence. fore, the NEPA newsprint was over Therefore, the established importers and above the import quota and much have a grievance against Government of the gap of the cut was made good that practically they have been cut by the NEPA production, which also, out of the market. Every newspaper as the hon. Member suggested right today, whether it is below or above ly, has gone up. 10 tons. (.Interruption). f Then there was also another factor ■vhich contributed to this. Last time Mr. Deputy-Speaker: If the hon. jvhen we agreed and they also agreed Minister has a long statement to make to have a cut of 15 per cent, they I may say that half an hour is over. nade a request that they should be Jlowed to carry a stock of six months. Shri Manubhai Shah: I will explain »»e also acceded to that because the that also in two minutes. 53 LSD—-9. Atyio Import licences 1 SEPTEMBER 1968 for newsprint and

WRITTEN ANSWERS TO WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS—contd. QUESTIONS—contd. U.S.Q. Subject C o l u m n s U.S. Subject Colum ns No. No. 1222 Handicrafts in Punjab 1 3896-97 1252 Language used in Cor respondence with 1223 Production of Auto U.S.S.R. and China 3916-17 mobiles 3897-98 1253 Dacoits in Pakistan Industries in Delhi ^898 1224 Police Uniform 3917 1225 Closure of Trade with ** 1254 Delhi Bhoodan Yagna Western Tibet 3898—99 Act 3917 1226 Export of Monkeys 3899 1255 Green'Tea 3918 Safety Measures in 1256 Distribution of Raw 1227 Films Coal Mines 3899-3 00 3918-19 1228 Labour Officers } 3900 1257 Arrest of Persons at Rajasthan Border . 3919 1229 Export of Manganese Ore 1900 1258 Guar- Gum 3919-20 1259 1230 Export of Indian Shoes 3901 Employment Exchanges 3920-21 1231 Trade with Goa 390X 1260 Indian High Commis sion at Dacca 3921 1232 Quarters for Class IV 4 Government Em 1261 Manufacture of Auto ployees ; 3902 mobile Tyres 3921 1262 Sewing Machines 3902—04 Iron Ore Agreement 1233 with Japan 3922 1234 Integration of Foreign 1263 Treatment of T.B. and Information Hit Miners 3922-23 Service ?9°3 1264 Foreign Film Produ- 1235 Rehabilitation of Dis cucers . placed Persons from 3924 W. Pakistan . 1265 Staff of the Indian High 3904 Commission in Lon 1236 Second Five Year Plan ' 3904—O') don . . 3923—25 I237 Skilled Manpower 3905—07 1266 Handlooms 3925 1238 Supply of Copper 3907-08 1267 Indian Trade Delegation* 3925 >239 Cinematographic Film 1268 Sheet Glass . 3926 and Sound Record 12*9 Tradr with U.S S.R. . 3926-27 ing Equipment 3908 IOTIUNS FOR ADJOURN 1240 Mal-practices by MENT: C.P.W.D. 3927— 36 3909 The Speaker withheld his con 1241 Company Law Admi sent to the moving of the nistration'* 3909-10 following adjournment mo 1242 Demolition of Govern tion': : ment Quarters on (0 Re : the lay-off of skilled Circular Road 3911 workers of Messers. Burn 1243 Gramdan Movement & Co., an engineering in Orissa 39H firm in Howrah, given notice of on 28-8-58 by 1244 Restrictions on the Shrimau Kenu Chak- Movements of Diplo ravartty and Sarvashri mats in China 3911-12 S.M. Banerjee, Tanga- 1245 Government Presses 3912 ma u and Prabhat Kar; 1246 Export of ‘Annatte and (Japhra Seed) 3913-14 (»t"> Re : situation re arising 1247 Educated Unemployed out of the non-acceptance 3914 by the Chief Commis sioner, Pondicherry of 1248 Film ‘Pardesi’ 5913-14 names recommended by 1249 Rephasiag of State the majority group in Plans 3915 Pondicherry Assembly 1250 fornomi nation as Coun Slum Clearance 3915 cillors, given notice by 1251 Townships for Dis Sarvashri V. P. Nayar placed Persons 3916 •nd Tangamani 4085 [D a il y D row n] 4ub6

C o l u m n s C o l u m n s

PAPERS LAID ON THETABLE. 3937 b il l in t r o d u c e d 39*8 The following papers were laid The Delhi Rent Control Bill, on the Table . 19^8 (1) A copy of the statement regardi Delates ^develop BILL PASSED <938—4003 ments on the InJo-Pakis- Cl use b clause consideration tan Canal Water Dis ot the Estate Duty (Amend- pute n ent) Bill, 1958 as reported by the Select Committee (2) A copy oi each of the continued The Bill was, following Notifications, thereafter, passed as amend under sub-section (6) ed of Section 3 of the Es sential Commodities 1 I LI I NUl I CO\S1DIRA Act, 1955, making cer I ION tain further amendments 4034—ft3 to the Cotton Textiles 1 he Minister ol Education ^Production by Hand- 1 Dr K l. Shrimah) moved loom) Control Order, that the Banaras Hindu Uni- 1956 \<.isit> 1 Amendment) BiU, (0 S O No 1339 dated ’ 958, as reported t>> the the 12th Jul>, iysX Sclcct Committee 11 t iken into consideration I he (itj i O No 1594 dated discussion was not conclud the 9th August, 195S ed (3) A copy each of the Am HALb-AN-HOl’R DISCUS- endments made by the SION 4064- 8o Speaker to Regulations 2, 7, 13, !<;, 19 and 21 of the Regulations (or Shri V P Nayar raised a half in holding ol Elections to hoUr discussion on points ari Committees b\ means ot sing out c f the answers given the signgle transferable on the nth August, 1958 \ote to Starred Question Nos s and 21 regarding misuse (4} Copy ot a statement re ot import licences for news garding the supply po- print and prices of paper res- sition of steel to the wa- pcctivclv Tin Minister of gon building and fab Industries (Shri Manubhai ricating units 1 n the Shah replied to the debate country AGENDA I OR 1 U1 SDA\, PRESIDENT'S AisSENl TO 2ND SEPTEMBER. tq

\i) 'lhe Appropriation (Rail 1111 1 he Sea Customs ways) No 3 Bill, 19^ Amendment; Bill. 19s

r>3 LSD— 10 PL84>3gJ<.i» 95*

P r in t e d a t t h e P arliamentary W in g o f th k G o v e r n m e n t o f I n d ia P r e s s , New Dklhx, a n d p u b l ish e d b y th e L o k S a b h a S e c r e t a r ia t u n d er r u l e s 379 a n d 382 o f th e R u le s o f P rocedu re a n d C o n d u c t o f B u s in e s s i n L o k S a b h a (F if t h E d it io n ).