5449 Papers laid [ 5 APR. 1966 ] on the Table 5450

tN.C.C. IN EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS principles of personal conduct. In national 713. DR. SHRIMATI PHULRENU affairs, he held firm to an uncompromising GUHA: Will the Minister of DEFENCE be faith in the unity and integrity of the country. pleased to state the number of schools and This House will remember him as a man colleges in the country which have N.C.C. who expressed himself vigorously, but training programme? without bitterness, and whose sincerity and earnestness were beyond question. Friendly THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE PRO- DUCTION IN THE MINISTRY OF and courteous, he was a gentleman to the DEFENCE (SHRI A. M. THOMAS): core. His infectious charm won him friends Information as on 31-12-65 is as follows:— wherever he went and in whatever company he moved. In his passing away, the country Schools . ... 4,802 loses a devoted and loyal fighter in the cause Colleges . ... 2,566 of freedom and national unity. I would request the Members to rise in tLARGEST RADIO TELESCOPE their seats and observe one minute's silence 723. SHRI M. C. SHAH: Will the as a mark of respect to the memory of the PRIME MINISTER be pleased to state: deceased. (a) whether it is a fact that the Tata (Hon. Members then stood in silence for Institute of Fundamental Research has one minute.) decided to instal one of the largest radio I shall ask the Secretary to convey to the telescopes in the world, at Ootacamund early members of the bereaved family the sense next year; and of grief and profound sympathy of this (b) if so, what special service will be House. rendered by this telescope? THE PRIME MINISTER AND THE MINISTER OF ATOMIC ENERGY PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE (SHRIMATI INDIRA GANDHI): (a) Yes, APPROPRIATION ACCOUNTS (POSTS AND Sir. A large radio telescope consisting of a TELEGRAPHS), 1964-65 AND AUDIT RE- parabolic cylinder, 1700 feet long and 100 PORT (POSTS AND TELEGRAPHS), 1966 feet wide, is proposed to be set up at Oota- camund and will be commissioned by about THE DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE the end of 1967. Its collecting power will be MINISTRY OF LABOUR, EMPLOY- equivalent to a parabolic dish of 500 feet MENT AND REHABILITATION (SHRI diameter. SHAH NAWAZ KHAN): Sir, on behalf of (b) The radio telescope will be used Shri Sachindra Chaudhuri, I beg to lay on mainly for studies of distant radio galaxies the Table, under clause (1) of article 151 of in our universe by the method of moon the Constitution, a copy each of the occulation. following papers:— (i) Appropriation Accounts (Post and Telegraphs), 1964-65. [Placed in OBITUARY REFERENCE Library. See No. LT-5972/66.] MR. CHAIRMAN: Members would have (ii) Audit Report (Posts and Tele- heard with a sense of profound sorrow the graphs), 1966. [Placed in Library. news of the passing away of one of our See No. LT-5971/66.] colleagues, Shri Faridul Haq Ansari. Though many of us knew that he had not been keeping good health recently, his death was NOTIFICATIONS UNDER THE as unexpected as it was sudden. An early CINEMATOGRAPH ACT, 1952 fighter in the freedom movement, he became THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION prominent in the public life of the country by AND BROADCASTING (SHRI RAJ unswerving adherence to high BAHADUR): Sir, I beg to lay on the Table a copy each of the following Notifications †Transferred from (he 1st April, 1966. 5451 Reference W call for [RAJYA SABHA] hartal in West Bengal 5452

of the Ministry of Information and Broad- [ motion regarding the Annual Reports of the casting:— I University Grants Commission for the years 1963-64 and 1964-65. (i) Notification G.S.R. No. 235, dated the 25th January, 1966, publishing the Cinematograph (Censorship) Fifth Amendment Rules, 1966, REFERENCE TO CALL FOR HARTAL under sub-section (3) of section 8 of IN WEST BENGAL ON THE 6TH the Cinematograph Act, 1952. APRIL. 1966 (ii) Notification G.S.R. No. 236, dated the 25th January, 1966. SHRI CHITTA BASU (West Bengal): Sir, 1 beg to call the attention of the Minister of (Placed in Library. See No. LT-6018/66 Food and Agriculture to the imminent hartal for (i) and (ii)] and "Bengal Bandh" call which is scheduled to take place tomorrow on the issue of the THE REGISTRATION OF NEWS PAPERS demand of food, protesting against the (CENTRAL) AMENDMENT RULES, 1966 atrocities perpetrated in West Bengal during SHRI RAJ BAHAUR: Sir, I also beg, to the last few weeks, and on the demand for lay on the Table a copy of Notification removal of Shri P. C. Sen from the Chief G.S.R. No. 304, dated the 26th February, Ministership of West Bengal. Sir, the situation 1966, publishing the Registration of News- in West Bengal is very grave today. Rice is papers (Central) Amendment Rules, 1966, selling at Rs. 3 per kilogram in different under sub-section (2) of section 20-A of the places of the State. There are famine Press and Registration of Books Act, 1867. conditions in the rural parts of the State. [Placed in library. See No. LT-6017/66]. People started a movement there and the West Bengal Government perpetrated police excesses and military excesses. There is ANNUAL REPORT (1964-65) AND ACCOUNTS anger and wrath on the part of the people and OF THE BHARAT EARTHMOVERS LTD., they have given a call for hartal tomorrow. I BANGALORE AND RELATED PAPERS beg to call the attention of the Food and Agriculture Minister to make a statement here as a last minute effort and to state in this THE DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE House what concrete steps he proposes to MINISTRY OF COMMERCE (SHRI M. take to ease the situation in West Bengal and SHAFI QURESHI): Sir, on behalf of Shri to bring back normalcy there. (Interruption) A. M. Thomas, I beg to lay on the Table, It is a movement led by the people of West under sub-section (1) of section 619-A of Bengal on the demand of food. There has the Companies Act, 1956, a copy of the been a consistent attempt on the part of the Annual Report and Accounts of the Bharat Government and some leaders of the Central Earthmovers Limited, Bangalore, for the Government to prove that this movement thas year 1964-65, together with the Auditors' been engineered by political parties No, Sir, it Report on the Accounts. [Placed in Library. is not a movement sponsored or engineered See No. LT-5965/66.] or designed by the political parties. It is a genuine upheaval of the people on the demand of food. This I say with all the emphasis at my command. ALLOTMENT OF TIME FOR CONSI- DERATION OF MOTION RE RE- PORTS OF THE UNIVERSITY MR. CHAIRMAN: That should be GRANTS COMMISSION FOR 1963-64 enough. You have called attention. and 1964-65 SHRI CHITTA BASU: Sir, my request is MR. CHAIRMAN: I have to inform to ask the Food and Agriculture Minister to Members that under rule 172 of the Rules of make a statement here and now so that the Procedure and Conduct of Business in the call for "Bengal Bandh" may be averted even Rajya Sabha, I have allotted three hours for at this late hour. Thank you. the consideration of Government's 5453 Reference to call for [ 5 APR. 1966 ] hartal in West Bengal 5454

MR. CHAIRMAN: "Here and now" declaration with regard to increase in the is rather drastic. ration, revocation of repression and release of people, and an enquiry into police and military firing. These declarations would go SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA (West Bengal): a long way in settling the problem. Sir, I gave notice of a calling attention motion with regard to the same subject. It has been MR. CHAIRMAN: You have amply with the Home Minister for the last two weeks or so. Now, we are on the eve of a reminded me and the Government of your general strike and hartal which of course will notice. be peaceful, I know. Government, however, is trying to give provocation, and the SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I know, Sir, Congress Party there isolated from the people you are helpless in this matter, perhaps, but is organising what they call a resistance all the same I still implore the Government group in order to create provocation so that and the Prime Minister who has come back the West Bengal people are driven to this kind and the Home Minister who was dealing of violent activities. While they will steer with this matter to come if possible and clear of all provocation in West Bengal, I make a statement. would like to know from the Central' Government what it is doing in (his matter. MR. CHAIRMAN: Please, Mr. Bhupesh MR. CHAIRMAN: What are you driving Gupta. That will do. at ? SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: What I am REQUEST FOR ALLOTMENT OF driving at is TIME TO DISCUSS POLICE FIRING IN BASTAR MR. CHAIRMAN: Have you sent notice? SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: It has been (Uttar Pradesh): Sir, we had requested you pending before you, Sir. You must have the other day to allot some time for dis- forgotten it. It is about the police excesses cussing the Bastar episode. and the way they are handling the situation. Except for the statement we got from Mr. MR. CHAIRMAN: I think that would be Subramaniam with regard to the quantity done before we dispersed. I think it will be that will be supplied to West Bengal, other tomorrow though I am not quite sure. aspects of the matter have not been dealt with by any statement. Therefore, I think it SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: The is right for us here in this House on the eve House should be informed today. We of the general strike and the hartal to ask the Government to state its position. Maybe they should not be taken by surprise because we can help the situation even now, and the are going to adjourn. point is in today's papers I find that the West MR. CHAIRMAN: It would be probably Bengal Chief Minister has said: "I will tomorrow in the afternoon. release some people if you stage the strike for 12 hours and not for 24 hours and if it is SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: peaceful." Is this the way that a responsible Why not make it certain, Sir? Government should function? Why don't they come and say MR. CHAIRMAN: I will ascertain and MR. CHAIRMAN: You have called tell you again. Probably it will be tomorrow attention to your notice. That should be in the afternoon. enough.

SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Too late, Sir. The sands of time are running out. That is what I say. There is still time. The Government can make unilateral

5455 Delhi Shops Establishments [RAJYA SABHA] (Amendment) Bill, 1965 5456

1 think the Labour and Employment Minis- try will not forget making immediate amendments to the Acts connected with the public sector undertakings in regard to those apprentices. Coming to the next amendment, substi- tution of new section for section 10, I may quote here that the Labour and Employment Ministry is copying out only a 20-year old THE DELHI SHOPS AND legislation, namely the Factories Act, ESTABLISHMENTS (AMENDMENT) section 55. Section 55 of the Factories Act BILL, 1965-conrrf. stated in those days that a worker shall not work for more than five hours at a stretch SHRI T. V. ANANDAN (Madras): Sir, without having half-an-hour recess for meal. the Bill further to amend the Delhi Shops 1 think the same section is quoted here after and Establishments Act, 1954 is before the 20 years. How can a worker, whether he be House. It is a very good piece of legislation employed in a shop or a commercial on the part of the Labour and Employment institution or in a factory, be able to work Ministry to amend a 12-year old Act. I have for more than five hours without a break for always found that as far as matters meal or tiffin or coffee to stimulate himself? connected with the wage-earners, the So in respect of this old rule under the working classes, are concerned, the Factories Act, 1948, it is high time that the Government is very lethargic in introducing Labour and Employment Ministry thought amendments although they understand the of reducing the hours from five to at least difficulties of the wage-earners in our four. Instead of keeping it at five, it should country. To take 12 years to introduce this have been brought down to four an a par amendment does not speak well of them but, with the advanced countries. however, it is good on the part of the Ministry to bring forward amendments to I find a very peculiar habit with our Govern- widen the scope of the application of the ment to adopt the introduction of labour- Bill and to make it obligatory on the part of saving machinery, electronic computers, etc. the employers to fix an interval and to They go and see the electronic computers in provide that applications for claims be made the foreign countries working and not only by the employee but also by a trade immediately they copy them here, even union representative on his behalf. These are though they reduce the potential employ- all good amendments. But what I say is that ment of the working class to that extent. they ought to have been brought into force And our Ministers do not take any interest in earlier than 12 years. May I, therefore, reducing the hardship of the working class suggest that in future the Labour and in the country. If they had brought down the Employment Ministry under the able working hours to four instead of five, 1 leadership of Shri Jagjivan Ram should not would have welcomed it. It is happening in think of giving time for more than three other countries. There are countries where years to find out whether an Act passed by the workers do not for more than five hours this House works to the advantage of the a day. In the Rockefeller. Institution in the working class or to the disadvantage of the United States of America workers work for workers ? not more than five hours a day and five days a week. There are other countries also where Taking into consideration the amendment they have restricted the hours of work to 40. to section 2, I would say that it is a good Even in the USSR they have given a amendment. It is a very good piece of guarantee last week that they are going to legislation, giving the status of a worker to bring down the weekly days to five. So, in an apprentice and the Labour and Em- our country when we are copying other things ployment Ministry is setting a good example from other advanced countries, it is high to the private sector. At the same time this time that as far as the working class is applicability of the workman's right to an concerned, we take more interest in apprentice should also be extended to the following the advanced apprentices who are in the public sector. 5457 Delhi Shops & Establishments [ 5 APR. 1966 ] (Amendment) Bill, 1965 5458

countries. Why I suggest that is to that extent from work because the wages that they get we may avoid unemployment. What is the are very limited and they do not want to good of bringing in labour-saving machinery absent themselves. And, therefore, they when we are not able to provide work for could make good use of the accumulated lakhs and lakhs of willing workers in this lesvc if they fell sick. We have not given country? Therefore, our Government should them sickness insurance in this country. To think first of introducing rationa-listed provide for it is a stepping stone. But if this methods to open employment potential to our is increased to two months instead of 45 working class. days, it would have been a welcome feature Next I come to clause 6, amendment of and it would have become a very good section 22. I find that the principal Act legislation also. is very clear. It is said in the principal Act 'privilege leave with full wages for a total Now under sub-section (b) it is stated period of not less than 15 days.' But here in 'sickness or casual leave'. Casual leave the amendment sought to be made it is means leave of a casual nature. A man may 'privilege leave for a total period of not less ask for casual leave for a day or two but as far than fifteen days'. There it is said 'with full as sick leave is concerned, 1 think this wages', here 'with full wages' is omitted. legislation should have provided for But the Labour and Employment Minister accumulation of sick leave. There are may say, "Please refer to the words 'wages establishments, factories and other comm- with leave' under section 23". And he may ercial concerns where they allow people to say immediately that the wages are being accumulate sick leave. 1 think it is a veiy provided with leave. But here leave means great omission on the part of the Ministry not not only privileges leave but there is the sick to have thought of allowing accumulation of leave and also the casual leave. If you are sick leave to the workers for whom this not very specific in the amendment as to legislation is introduced. However, Sir, on what kind of leave it would be with full the whole, I may say that this legislation is a wages, I do not think that under the present progressive legislation and the workers set-up the employers or the industrialists affected by this legislation, workers to whom or the commercial managements will this is going to apply, will be welcoming this immediately give them wages for sick leave. legislation. I request the Ministry that in There are institutions where they have future whenever they introduce amendments introduced sick leave at half pay. But here it to the old Acts, they should take some interest is silent, even section 23 does not very in comparing the condition of wage earners clearly say about the leave or how one can of this country with the wage earners of qualify one self to earn the leave. advanced countries. Therefore, I think the removal of the words Thank you Sir. 'full wages' is of a doubtful nature and I expect that the Labour and Employment Ministry will give a satisfactory explanation REFERENCE TO STATEMENT BY for omitting from the principal Act the words 'leave with full wages'. That is a point which PRIME MINISTER I am placing before the Mini-tor in the MR. CHAIRMAN: Before 1 call the next interests of the wage-earners. speaker, I have to announce that the Prime Coming next to the amendment about the Minister being indisposed would not be able accumulation of leave, from 30 days' to attend Parliament today and will, therefore, accumulation they have now made it to three not make the statement at 5 P.M. as times—3 x 15=45 days. It is a good thing, I announced. She would do so on some do not say that it is a bad thing. But yet I subsequent occasion. feel that they could have gone one step forwaid—instead of 45 days they could have -said two months. Accumulation of leave up THE DELHI SHOPS AND ESTABLISH- to 2 months is not a difficult task. Even it MENTS (AMENDMENT) BILL, gives an incentive to the workers not to 1965- contd. absent himself. Workers in this country do not absent themselves SHRI CHITTA BASU (West Bengal): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I welcome the Delhi 5459 Delhi Shops & Establishments [RAJYA SABHA] (Amendment) Rill. 1965 5460

[Shri Chitta Basu.] shops and Establishments improvement. There is no provision regarding (Amendment) Bill, 1965 because it provides that. I agree that in this Bill those provisions certain rights to shop assistants and also provides cannot be made, but one thing can be done. In this for the removal of certain lacunae in the parent Bill an eight-hour working has been fixed. As you Act. Sir, although it is a belated move it is a step know. Sir, in works which involve hazards, the forward towards the removal of these lacunae working hours have been lessened. For instance, which were the weaknesses of the Act itself. in mines those who work underground, their working hours have been reduced. In this case also since the shop assistants are to work in [THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. RUTHNA- uncongenial, unhygienic places and since there is SWAMY) in the Chair.] no provision there for the improvement of the environment, 1 suggest that the working hours We would have been very glad had there been a required of them may be lessened by a statutory comprehensive Bill dealing with all the problems provision in the Bill. and difficulties of the shop assistants. Anyway, through you, Sir, I like to point out certain Sir, again, not only the question of enactment, lacunae in this Act to the pilot of this Bill. there is also the question of implementation. It is our general experience that the objectives of many Sir, in this Bill you will find that there is no Acts are not fulfilled. They fail because of non- provision for the protection of shop assistants implementation of the provisions of the Acts. As against retrenchment and arbitrary discharge. You far as my experience goes, I have found that Shop may say that there are other labour laws for Inspectors are not above malpractices. They do adequate protection against this evil of not force the shop employers to observe the law in retrenchment and arbitrary illegal discharges. But toto, both in letter and in spirit. I think there there are certainly provisions in the Industrial should be a provision in the Act itself for the Disputes Act and it would have been better had supervisory satff to see that the provisions of the these provisions been also included in this Bill so Act are properly implemented. that adequate protection might be given against these illegal discharge and retrenchment, I do not like to take much of your time. I would guaranteeing retrenchment benefits to workers of suggest that all these points may kindly be looked all other categories to which they are entitled. into so that (he Bill may be improved to the best possible extent. Thank you. Sir, you will notice that there is no provision for ensuring security of service. As far as I know, there is no security of service to shop assistants. They are very seldom made permanent in their service. They are arbitrarily discharged and their services terminated. One of the basic questions before all the working people is this that there should be adequate guarantee of security of their service. In this Bill, I note with regret, there is no provision which can ensure security of service to shop assistants.

Sir, you will note that there is also no provision for the improvement of the working conditions in which the shop assistants are to work. Almost in all the shops in developed cities—in this city also—the environments are hygienically uncongenial. Therefore, the shop assistants have to work ID conditions which deserve rapid, speedy 5461 Delhi Shops & Establishments [5 APR. 1966] (Amendment) Bill, 1965 5462

5463 Delhi Shops & Establishments [RAJYASABHA] {Amendment) Bill, 1965 5464

5465 Delhi Shops & Establishments [5 APR. 1966] (Amendment) Bill, 1965 5466

5467 Delhi Shops & Establishments f RAJYA SABHA ] (Amendment) Bill, \965 5468

5469 Delhi Shops & Establishments [5 APR. 1966] (Amendment) Bill, 1965 5470

5471 Delhi Shops & Establishments [RAJYA SABHA] (Amendment) Bill, 1965 5472

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. RUTHNASWAMY): The Ministei.

SHRI AMD ALI (Maharashtra): Mr. Vice-Chairman

SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE (Uttar Pradesh): Is he the Minister?

SHRI AMD ALI: I am replying to my friend there. Have I your permission to speak, Sir?

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. RUTHNASWAMY): I had called on the Minister. Do you want to speak?

SHRI ABID ALI: Yes, Sir. I beg to make a few observations with regard to the working of the Shop Assistants Act in Delhi. I request that the Government should ensure 5473 Delhi Shops & Establishments [ 5 APR. 1966 ] (Amendment) Bill, 1965 5474

at least near-minimum implementation of should be allowed to be kept open, because the provisions of this Act. In most of the that will mean that the spread-over will be areas in Delhi, the provisions of the Act are much more, and it will be to the detriment not implemented by most of the shop- of the employees. The suggestion was that, keepers. This morning I was in Pahargunj in between, for some hours there should be and most oi the shops were open at 8-30 closure and that sort of closure means that A.M. I do not refer to the vegetable shops or the workers in the shops, who will be the sweetment shops but shops which are supposed to be attending the shop at 8-30 governed by this enactment whose working A.M., will be leaving home early in the hours are restricted. Similarly on Sundays morning, and if they leave the shop after 8- most of these shops are open. In Subzimandi 30 P.M. it means that they will reach home the shop-owners manipulate the working in very late, and the rest of the period, they such a way that it becomes impossible for will be whiling away. And meekly he has the Inspectorate to have any checking. A said that there should be double shift. And suggestion was made some time back that that also will mean that again the prices will along with the system of having employees go up. So both ways it is to the detriment of by rotation, they should also have a system the consumers and to the deteriment of the of photographs of the employees so that the employees working in the shops alike, and, Inspectors may be able to know whether a therefore, no consideration should be given particular employee who was supposed to be to such a ridiculous and unworkable on leave on that particular day is working or suggestion. not. That can be done only if—not by names, because names are changed, and And about other things which the hon. these employees have to submit to the Member has said, just he wanted to please dictates of the shop-owners—photos are his own ego, and therefore he was said them there, and then the inspectorate will be able and run away, and so I need not attend to to have tome checking done if these them. Of course the hon. Minister will take suggestions are taken into consideration for care of them. their acceptance and implemented. I do not know to what extent the inspectorate are THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. influenced by bribe or otherwise so that, RUTHNASWAMY): Only walked away, whatever the shop-owners want to do, they not ran away. are able to do without any fear from the inspectorate. That has been the experience. SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: On a This may kindly be taken into consideration. point of order. The hon. Member has just stated that one particular Member ran away With regard to what my friend opposite after making his speech. Is that a happy was just saying, namely that a sum more expression, Sir? than the salaries of a hundred employees of Government is spent on a bungalow of the Ministers, I do not know how he has been THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. able to come to this conclusion. Perhaps he RUTHNASWAMY): Not decent. wanted to say something against the SHRI ABID ALI: What is wrong? All Government, and just he had been telling right; he had left the House. Agreed? whatever came in his mouth. SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: They It is, likewise not possible to have a similar are very particular about keeping decorum Act for Delhi and for Kerala. Kerala has got in the House. its own enactment and the shop assi-tants there have got the benefit of the Act in Kerala. And that cannot be brought heTe, TH nor can the Act which is in force here be E DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE taken to Kerala. MINISTRY OF LABOUR, EMPLOYMENT AND REHABILITATION (SHRI SHAH I strongly oppose the suggestion that from NAWAZ KHAN): Sir, I am grateful 8-30 A.M. till 8-30 P.M. the shops 5475 Delhi Shops& Es ablishments [RAJYA SABHA] (Amendment) Bill, 1965 5476 to the hon. Members who have taken part in of workers. This may also lead to abuses as this discussion. As I stated in my opening pointed out by Shri Mitra, one being the remarks, certain amendments had to be same worker being called by two different brought forward in the light of certain names and employed in more than one shift, difficulties that were experienced in the and this malpractice may receive actual implementation of the Act, and these encouragement under this guise. amendments were placed before the Home Minister's Labour Advisory Committee, and Sir, a number of Members also made the the Labour Advisory Board of the Delhi suggestion that the shops should remain Administration. open on Sundays. Sir, this is entirely within the competence of the Delhi Administration, Sir, a number of hon. Members hare and there is enough flexibility in the Act to spoken. Shri Lokanath Misra wanted that the enable the Administration to fix any day for self-employed shop-owners should be keeping a shop closed. allowed to keep their shops open as long as they liked. But, Sir, that would give rather an unfair advantage to the persons who arc Then my friend, Shri Anandan, spoke operating their own shops themselves, and about the continuous hours of work, and he that might amount to discrimination, and said that people should not be asked to work would be objected to by other people. He for five hours continuously without a break talked about sick leave and laid that sick for lunch or meals. Sir, this provision is in leave on half pay should be Allowed, as in accordance with and on the same lines as the the case of Government servants. Sir, ones in the Factories Act. and we have based according to the existing provisions, the it on the same lines, and when the other amount of sickness or casual leave cannot workers in the country are working in similar exceed twelve days in a year. As against this conditions, we do not see any reason why we we are providing that such leave shall not be should mate separate provisions for shop less than twelve days. SO| as far as that is workers. Sir, he talked about the wages. That concerned, that is an improvement, since is fully covered under section 23 of the Act higher Sick leave can now be allowed by Wages are covered under that particular agreement: Regarding sick leave on half pay section. No mention was made of that on the lines admissible to Government because no amendment to that was to be servants, it is not possible to compare the effected. conditions of service of these employees with that of the Government ' servants. He My hon. friend, Shri. Chitta Basu from also wanted that a wage board should be set West Bengal talked about arbitrary retrench- up to determine the wages of shop ment and said that no provision had been employees. I am glad to inform the House made in. this Act against that. • There are that the Delhi Administration have set up a other Acts which take care of that and the committee to fix minimum wages for shop workers are fully protected under the assistants under the Minimum Wages Act. different sections of those Acts. Also if he They have also appointed a Wage Board for will look at section 30 of this Act under the employees in hotels and restaurants which heading "Notice of dismissal" he will find are governed by the Delhi Shops and that all the rights and privileges of the Establishments Act, 1954, since wage workers in this respect are fully covered. structure there is a bit complicated owing to the existence of tips. Then, Sir, he wanted that the spread-over should be minimised and the My hon. friend Abdul Ghani Dar digressed interval for rest reduced to half an hour and from the Delhi Shops and Establishments added that, to facilitate this, the workers may (Amendment) Bill and the Act which is be required to work in shifts. Sir, under the dealing with the conditions of the work of Act, the spread-over is not to exceed 10J the employees in these shops and went on to hours in any commercial establishment and deal with the political set-up of Delhi 12 hours in any shop on any day. Working in Administration. That is a little beyond the shifts is hardly feasible as few employers purview of the amendments which are now would be able to enagage more than a set before the House. 547 7 Delhi Shops & Establishments [ 5 APR. 1966 ] (Amendment) Bill, 1965 5478

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. clause by clause consideration of the Bill.

Clauses 2 to 6 were added to the Bill. Clause 7—Substitution of new section {or section 24—Contracting Out

SHRI SHAH NAWAZ KHAN: Sir, I beg to move: SHRI SHAH NAWAZ KHAN: I am sure if it is decided to give a separate Legislature 3. "That at page 4, line 5, for the figure to them, then this will automatically be '1965' the figure '1966' be substituted." transferred to them. But until such time as The question was put and the motion was they have a separate Legislature of their adopted. own, the Central Government has to look after this. THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. RUTHNASWAMY): The question is: I am also grateful to my hon. friend, Shri Abid Ali, for pointing out certain drawbacks "That clause 7, as amended, stand part of and certain weaknesses in the actual the Bill." implementation of these Acts. As he would see, there are Inspectors who have already The motion was adopted. been appointed under this Act to see that the Clause 7, as amended, was added to the Act is properly implemented. But I am Bill. grateful to my hon. friend for the information that he has given and we shall take all possible Clause 1—Short title steps to ensure that the actual provisions of this Act are properly implemented and I hope. SHRI SHAH NAWAZ KHAN: Sir, I beg Sir, that with these amendments, which have to move: been fully discussed by this hon. House, ! we (2) "That at page 1, line 4, for the figure will be able to implement this Act in a j more '1965', the figure '1966' be substituted." effective manner. SHRI ATAL BIHARI VAJPAYEE: May I The question was put and 'the motion was ask a question as to whether Subzi Mandi is adopted. covered or not? In spite of this enactment being amended, subzi Mandi workers THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. continue to work as before. They have no RUTHNASWAMY): The [question is: time-limit, no fixed hours of work and the "That clause 1, as amended, stand part of the Inspectorate has done nothing in the case of Subzi mandi. Bill." The motion was adopted. SHRI SHAH NAWAZ KHAN: We will Clause 1, as amended, was added to the certainly look into that matter. Sir, and if Bill. there is any failure of that kind, we shall try Enacting Formula to set it right. SHRI SHAH NAWAZ KHAN: Sir, I beg THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. to move: RUTHNASWAMY): The question is: "That the Bill further to amend the Delhi 1. "That at page 1, line 1, for the word Shops and Establishments Act, 1954, be 'Sixteenth' the word 'seventeenth' be taken into consideration." substituted." The motion was adopted. The question was put and the motion was adopted. †[ ] Hindi transliteration. 5479 Motion re Reports of [ RAJYA SABHA 1 University Grants Commission 548J

THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. I shall listen with attention to the observa- RUTHNASWAMY): The question is: tions, suggestions and criticisms of the "That the Enacting Formula, as amended, Members and when I come to wind up the debate I shall try and meet those suggestions stand part of the Bill." and criticisms to the best of my ability. The motion was adopted. The question was proposed. The Enacting Formula, as amended, was added to the Bill. SHRI M. RUTHNASWAMY (Madras): Madam Vice-Chairman, let me begin by The Title was added to the Bill. congratulating the Minister on the up-to- dateness of the Reports and also on the SHRI SHAH NAWAZ KHAN: Sir, I beg readiness with which he has introduced the to movo: Reports for discussion in the House. "That the Bill, as amended, be passed." With regard to the composition of the The question was put and the motion was University Grants Commission I cannot say adopted. much because it is according to the provisions of the Act but I must again draw the attention ANNOUNCEMENT RE. TIME FOR of the House—as I have drawn in past DISCUSSION ON THE BASTAR years—to the embarrassment caused to the INCIDENT Commission and to the members of the Commission by actual Vice-Chancellors of THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. Universities being members of it because RUTHNASWAMY): I have to make an however impartial they may be in regard to announcement. The discussion on the Bajtar their own Universities the impression goes incident will take place tomorrow at 2-30 abroad that they mutually help each other. p.m.j Again about the presence of Secretaries of the The House now stands adjourned till 2-30 Finance Department and of the Education P.M. Department, although it may be pleaded that their presence would expedite the discussion The House then adjourned for of questions because the objections that may lunch at fifty seven minutes past be raised afterwards in the Education and the twelve of the clock. Finance Departments to the proposals of the Commission may be disposed of then and there at the meetings of the Commission, I am The House reassembled after lunch at half afraid the presence of these officials of the past two of the clock. The VICE-CHAIRMAN Finance and Education Departments would (SHRIMATI TARA RAMCHANDRA SATHE) in the interfere with the freedom of discussion Chair. because at the very outset these officials may bring forward administrative objections or MOTION RE REPORTS OF THE UNI- financial objections that might scotch any VERSITY GRANTS COMMISSION proposal of the members of the Commission. FOR 1963-64 AND 1964-65 Any discussion of the proposals of the THE MINISTER OF EDUCATION University Grants Commission by these (SHRI M. C. CHAGLA): Madam Vice- officials should come at a later stage when the Chairman, I beg to move: members of the Commission have come to their own conclusion. The point of view of "That the Annual Reports of the Uni- the administration may be placed before the versity Grants Commission for the years Minister after the decision of the non-official 1963-64 and 1964-65 laid on the Table of members of the Commission. the Rajya Sabha on the 7th May, 1965 and the 4th March, 1966 respectively, be taken Then going to the body of the Reports I into consideration." shall take up first the standards in regard to Madam, at this stage I do not wish to take admission with which the University Grants much of the time of the House. The Reports Commission is charged. On page 7, have been laid on the Table and I am sure all Members have persued them. 5411 Motion re Reports of [ 5 APR. 1966 ] University Giants Commission 5482 according to the Report of the Committee on in the correspondence courses. There are Standards, we find very fine principles correspondence courses in England on stated: technical subjects and even on arts subjects but no one pretends that they constitute "Methods have to be evolved to ensure university education. that only those students are admitted to the universities who have the necessary Then what has been done by the Univer- aptitude and ability for higher studies. For sity Grants Commission to have this division those who are not considered fit to profit into pass and honours courses? More than from higher education alternative courses one university has given up the honours may be provided in technical schools, courses. My own University; the University polytechnics etc." of Madras, for years had this division between pass and honours courses but for Then further on they say: some reason or other they have given it up "It will be desirable to provide for two and introduced the honours courses at the streams of undergraduate education, w'z., postgraduate stage. pass and honours courses in order to meet the quantitative as well as qualitative Then with regard to pre-university course requirements of higher education." Now I also the Report lays down an excellent would like to know what the University principle that the pre-university course must Grants Commission has done in order to prepare the students for the university prevail upon universities to accept these course. If English is the medium of ins- principles of admission. What has the truction, they should be given intensive Ministry itself done through its influence courses in English so that the students would with the State Ministries of Education to be able to follow the lectures in English. provide for alternative courses in technical What has happened is the pre-university schools so that all those who want education course which comes at the end of the higher may not rush to the universities? At the school stage or in the first year of the uni- middle school stage or at the high school versity course and the whole Intermediate stage students who are not fit for university course is crammed into one year. Science education on account of their aptitudes or on subjects, history, mathematics, all these are account of their tastes or «a account of their crammed into the one year with the result intellectual qualities should be siphoned off that the students do not get prepared for the into technical courses. Till that is done by university courses of study. Instead of that both the Central Ministry and the States they should have restricted the number of Ministries of Education it is no use expecting subjects and laid stress upon intensive course to look for stricter methods of admission. in English or whichever is the language that is to be the medium of instruction at the Then, as I have so often pointed out, they university stage so that the students may be have invented a remedy which is worse than prepared to undergo the university courses of the disease, namely, the correspondence studies. course, in order to meet the tide of students coming into universities. For the students I welcome the provision of summer schools who find no room in the universities and for teachers but I find that so far only science university colleges correspondence courses teachers have been provided for. There is no have been invented. Now, I have nothing to provision for teachers in humanities. Of say against correspondence courses as a course, a promise is bold out that soon means of imparting information on summer schools will be provided for them geography, history etc., but what I contend also. Summer schools for methods of teaching is, it is not university education. The essence in the humanities are even more important of university education consists in students than summer schools for teaching methods in and teachers being brought face to face with science courses. As a matter of fact, on one another, students being brought face to account of the relatively fashionable face with one another, discussing questions, popularity of science subjects, humanities are answering questions, asking questions. That at a discount among our students. So, it is you do not have necessary that I teaching of humanities like history, literature. 5483 Motion re Repor ts of [RAJYA SABHA] University Grants Commission 5484

[ Shri M. Ruthnaswamy. ] geography, in these universities there are many faculties politics and economics should be made more in agriculture. What has really happened is interesting. The standards also should be that many if the agricultural subjects, no kept high in these humanity courses. doubt, have different departments, but they do not constitute faculties of a university. Then, I come to the controversial subject Each class of subjects has a faculty of its of general education. Here again, very own. Arts have a faculty. Sciences have a excellent principles were laid down viz:— faculty. But I was surprised to learn from (a) it is an important means to arousing another Minister in the Union Government, the necessary searching enquiries and the Minister of Education, saying that even questions in the mind of the student; in these agricultural universities provision is made for art and science subjects. Then why (b) making the three-year degree course should they be called agricultural universities as well as other forms of college education at all? Call them universities specialising in more useful in themselves for the individual agriculture or specialising in engineering. and for society; and (c) modernising and rationalising the SHRI M. C. CHAGLA: Madam, I am syllabi and courses of college education. afraid my hon. friend is making a mistake. The information came not from me, but After arguing for general education, the from the Minister of Food. I was sitting here Commission itself says : when that question was asked. The question "As general education is not primarily a put to the Food Minister about agricultural matter of content, it should not be an universities. They are not under the Ministry additional course. It requires the teaching of Education. of the existing courses of study with a SHRI M. RUTHNASWAMY: That was general education 'bias or emphasis'." the explanation given by the Minister of Then, what is the point of introducing a new Food and Agriculture. coarse called the general education course in the first year of the three-year degree course Then, with regard to the use of the cente- ? Any subject, whether it is literature, history nary grants, as much as Rs. 1 crore has been or economics, if it is taught properly by granted to all those universities which competent teachers, would itself realise all celebrated their centenary some years back. the objectives aimed at in the course of Has the University Grants Commission general education. General education is an enquired how these large sums were spent? I American invention and as American know of universities which have spent the inventions are so popular nowadays, here bulk of this Rs. 1 crore grant upon huge also we have taken it up, but general edu- buildings, whereas anyone interested in cation cannot be a subject by itself. Any B.A. university education would have insisted on degree course or intermediate course can be the bulk of money being spent on endow- so taught that it will inculcate in the people ments—endowments for teaching posts, all those interests, all those aptitudes and all endowments for students' scholarships, those mental qualities that are aimed at in the endowments that would extend the utility of course called "general education." the university. That would have improved the efficiency of teaching in the university, No doubt, we may congratulate the Ministry endowments towards the improvement of the on the large number of universities that are salaries of teachers, or an increase in the being founded almost every year. So far we amount of scholarships granted to students. have 62 and then seven new universities are But the bulk of the money has been spent on being promised, two new universities in buildings. I would like to raise the question Gujarat. Even institutions which specialise whether the University Grants Commission, only in one subject like apiculture or in its attitude towards the universities, is engineering have been given the title of exercising any degree of control over the agricultural university or engineering courses of study, over the organisation of university. When this question was raised studies in the universities. Of course, the some time ago the Minister defended the title Minister may say that universities are of agricultural university saying that autonomous by themselves. 54S5 Motion re Reports of [ 5 APR. 1966 ] University Grants Commission 5486

No doubt they are autonomous, but when Even now we find that in many students' they receive these large sums of money as hostels as many as two or three are accommo- grants from the Central Government, through dated in a room meant for only one. It was a the University Grants Commission, they happy experience for me only a fortnight ago should have a say in regard to the to visit Pilani. That was the only exception I organisation of teaching, in regard to the think in the whole of Indian university life organisation of courses of study in respect where each student had a room of his own. It even of the very syllabi of the universities. is only then that he can learn to keep his room clean, to have some self-respect, to Then, again, with regard to the question of have some time for his studies, to attain all teachers, the retiring age of teachers is fixed the advantages of university social life. at 60 and it may be extended by a special Regarding the vexed question of university resolution of the syndicate of the university to unions, 1 hope these university unions will be 63. But why should 63 be the retiring age of converted into real students' clubs and not teachers? In the case of teachers at least age into trade union organisations, that they will should count as a qualification. There arc be open to voluntary enrolment, and that real teachers in England and the United States of club life will be provided i in these union America who do not think of retiring till they buildings—a reading room, a common room, fall down dead. There teachers go up to the a recreation room, and so on—so that age of 70. At least in regard to teachers some students can meet ci'.ch other and cultivate flexibility must be shown by the University social life. Grants Commission. I know of teachers in Madras who, at the age of 70, are able to With regard to the great problem of the teach as well as any young man, who is a unemployed youth, no doubt the numbers are fresher. They may be better because they growing every yci'r as a result of indi- have all the experience of years. I do not say scriminate admission to our universities and that incompetent teachers should be kept on, colleges. But cannot these unemployed however old they may be. They may be B.As- be employed in some useful way, for retired, but some discretion must be given to instance, for developing primary education the university authorities to extend the age of at a much greater rate than it is being teachers till they are unable to fulfil their developed now and for developing adult duties. education? These unemployed B.As. am be drafted ::s teachers in these primary schools 1 must congratulate the University Grants and in these adult education institutions. I Commission on the provision it has made for think if you want primary education to grow building quarters for teachers, but care much faster than the present wretched rate of should be taken to sec that these quarters are 1 per cent pe year, we should make use of as near the colleges and the universities as these unemployed B.As. and convert them possible because it is only then the moral aad into teachers of primary schools and adult intellectual influence of teachers on students education schools. may be realised. Regarding the staff of the Commission, I Then, here is the important problem of believe it is as high as 350, whereas the students' welfare. With regard to the building English Grants Commission makes do with of hostels, I find that it is only 18 per cent, of only 50 on its staff. Of course, India on the university student population that is account of its climate, on account of its accommodated in our hostels. This is a very special circumstances, requires a large low proportion. As I have already insisted, number of subordinate staff, but I think the the whole essence of university education University Grants Commission should set an consists in its residential Character and in the example to universities and reduce its mutual confidence between the teachers and administrative staff as much as possible. the students. That is only possible if we have'. hostels attached to university colleges I have made these criticisms and comments and to uni-vwsities. In regard to the existing with a view to improving the working of the hostels what is the accommodation University Grants Commission because provided? 5487 Motion re Reports of [ RAJYA SABHA J University Grants Commission 5486

[Shri M. Ruthnaswamy.] the University universities is a refreshing portent of the Grants Commission is an instrument in the trend that is now visible in our educational hands of the Ministry of Education by which life. It is not merely the multiplicity of the it can positively and actively promote the universities in number but it has got a certain development cf universities on the right important role in the evolution of the lines. But the University Grants Commission educational pattern in our country. I am must take courage in both its hands and see equally pleased that there have been several that when it makes grants, the grants are new colleges coming up with particular properly used for the efficient development traditions and memorials for the purpose of of our universities, for the development of playing a significant role in the new set-up of our universities in the directions in which university education. It is indeed gratifying to they should develop, so that our universities note that the proportion of the student may be a source of strength, not only of enrolment is on the increase. It has been a educational but of political and social streng- very long standing criticism that the vast th to the country. thousands and thousands «f people who pass SHRI T. CHENGALVAROYAN the matriculation standards are not able to get (Madras): Madam Vice Chairman, I deem it a admission into the colleges. But the great privilege to join in the general University Grants Commission report gives a appreciation of the University Grants complete answer to that question, and there is Commission's report. The honour I enjcy is a steady increase in the proportion of the enhanced to a considerable degree and student enrolment. It is indeed gratifying to intensified to a very great extent when I recall note that the attraction for the students with that I have learnt at the feet of the hon. reference to various subjects is significantly Minister of Education Constitutional Law in portrayed in the Commission's report. I was the Law College of Bombay. It is a tribute to rather trembling to know what had been the the quality and the role cf university appeal and the attraction of the Arts and education and also a vindicaticn of our Humanities upon the student mind, and I am society. Nearly a century of university indeed gratified to note that the University education has given successive generations of Grants Commission report has been able to leaders of thought and action in our country. give greater and added attraction for the But unfortunately university education has students in regard to the study of Humanities fallen on evil days and in some places on evil as well as Arts. Madam, university education tongues. But, thanks to the great role that the will not be complete, will not be adequate, University Grants Commission has played, will not be purposeful, unless this greater and the academic sublimity of university educa- longstanding emphasis on the study of tion has now risen to a very high status, and Humanities and Arts is always there. But I added to that, Madam Vice Chairman, the have a little grievance, Madam, if I may be hon. Minister of Education of theGovern- permitted to point out, that the attraction for ment of India has given a new tone, a turn the study of Law is rather diminishing, and I and a twist to the whole tenor of university do not know what has been the psychological education so that we in this country can be reaction upon the student community with proud of the historic role of university regard to the study of Law. • • • education. SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA (West Bengal): The University Grants Commission report, Because Judges arc becoming Ministers and Madam Vice Chairman, is replete with Members of the Rajya Sabha. certain records of achievement in very im- SHRI T. CHENGALVAROYAN: • • • portant directions of reformation and rejuve- because the study of Law is not merely from nation of university education as well as the professional point of view, but I attach csrtain notable attempts for the purpose of considerable importance. Madam, to the toning up the entire structure of university study of L: w because it gives a particular education. I am particularly pleased to know sublimity to the entire kct-up 3 p.m. of any that there have been several improvements in person's intellectual attainment. With regard diverse directions with regard to the spread of to the current trends that are there visible in university education. The growth and the university expansion of several new 5489 Motion re Reports of (5 APR. 1966] University Grants Commission 5490 education in our country, I feel that there is a extent to which such seminars and discu- zest for the purpose of getting higher and ssions are arranged under the auspices of higher university education, and the visible several universities, it will go a long way in record of the increase of the attractive toning up university education. standards of post-graduate study is indeed an encouraging sign that we note in the trend of The University Grants Commission has university education. Post-graduate study is shown considerable anxiety and even care to be emphasised and the more and more it is with reference to the role and the conditio* emphasised, the greater and greater will of the teachers of the universities. Our university education become sublimated. For esteemed hon. Minister of Education who one thing, it is the post-graduate study and was almost on the eve of taking up tho course that will give a kind of a syphon discussion on this Commission's Report, has arrangement for the purpose of getting the announced the intention and the decision of teaching staff into the higher colleges and the Government of India to upgrade and improving the standards of university stabilise the scales of salaries of university education. The University Grants teachers. May I, on behalf of the several Commission has indeed given considerable thousands of university teachers, convey encouragement for the promotion and the their grateful appreciation and thanks to the fostering of post-graduate study. hon. Minister of Education for having given this new hope and new cheer, as it were, to I am equally impressed, Madam Vice- the life of the teaching staff of the Chairman, with the efforts that the University universities? I have myself been a university Grants Commission has made in the direction teacher for a short tim* during a certain of sublimating and even giving a greater tone interval in my political life and I found what to the method of teaching, particularly the a miserable condition the university teacher equipment, the arrangement and the pattern could be put to. He could not enrich his that one has to have with regard to the toning knowledge, he could not subscribe to up of the entire teaching. Uaiversity important educational journals, he could not education, as my friend. Prof. Ruthnaswamy, purchase new books. Therefore, it is in the was pleased to point out, is a particular type context of toning up teaching itself in of imparting education from one to the other, university education that an improvement in from the teacher to the student and in some the standard of the emoluments of the cases, from the student to the teacher as well. university teachers would be a great relieve That inter-Sow of knowledge and that in the present circumstances. mingling of thoughts and tendencies would undoubtedly tone up university education and I am equally grateful. Madam Vice- to that extent, the University Grants Chairman, to the Government for the em- Commission has done a tremendous job in phasis that it has laid on the question of tie trying to tone up the methods of teaching. I stability and also the security of tenure of am particularly attracted to the provision and the teaching staff. One thing, the teacher to the encouragement that the University must be above any worry and to that extent, Grants Commission has given for one the tone of his instruction would be really important aspect of teaching, namely, what great. they call the area studies. I am very much fascinated by that idea because today Equally I am pleased with the very consi- university education should not merely be derable care that the University Grants local, it should not merely be territorial, it Commission has given with reference to the must not even be national, it must cross the students. It is a very great problem, it is a borders of all these limitations and it should very grave problem. We have seen in the grow wider and wider, in concentric circles of recent past certain demonstrations, certain expansion. To that extent, university upheavals, among the student community. I education becomes sublimated. I am have very great respect and admiration for particularly pleased that with their efforts at the great patriotic impulse of the students of holding seminars, conferences and the universities of our country and whenever discussions— a new trend in university and wherever they have rather digressed education— teaching will be of very great from their very pristine and puritan value and to the standard, it was be- 5491 Motion re Reports of [RAJYA SABHA] University Grants Commission 5492

[Shri T. Chengalvaroyan.] cause of a May I appeal to the hon. Minister of certain context, a certain environment, in Education that in any scheme of university which the student community of the education, let there not be any tinkering or university is placed. tampering with the autonomy of the universities? I may bring to the very kind SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN (Andhra notice of the hon. Minister of Education that Pradesh): Some legislators establish a very there are certain attempts made at the reform bad precedent for the students. of university enactments in sevaral States. It SHRI T. CHENGALVAROYAN: Un- was once said by our hon. Minister of doubtedly. Madam Vice-Chairman, I do not Education that he was envisaging a model know how far I will be right when I say that Bill for the universities. May I implore him there is a mental chaos among the student with all respect to corns out with that model community and the University Grants Bill because there have been attempts by Commission has taken very great care in certain States at lowering the dignity, the trying to rectify certain defects that are greatness and the sublimity of university found in student life. life ? I am pleased to note that there is consi- With these words, 1 have very great derable emphasis laid for the prupose of pleasure in whole-heartedly supporting and scholarship for the students and nay, there is endorsing the Report, and this Report is not also a very reformative character of the only a Report but it is a document on hostel life. It has been suggested by the Education. University Grants Commission that the SHRI BANKA BEHARY DAS (Orissa): system of halls of residence must be intro- Madam Vice-Chairman, I join with others duced. I most respectfully endorse that when I appreciate and give my thanks to the suggestion becasue a single hostel for the hon. Minister for producing a tine Report entire mass of students in one particular about the University Grants Commission. university will savour either of a garrison or Unlike the other Report which we discussed a hospital or both. Some very important yesterday, the Report of the Union Public colleges have got halls of residence; Service Commission, here is a Report which particularly the Madras Christian College only dates back to last year. So, without has got seven halls of residence into which the going in to the details of this Report, which students of the college are compartmen- have been gone through by others, I would talised. I may very respectfully submit that only say a few words about the lacunae that this system of halls of residence which the we find in university education. University Grants Commission envisages will be implemented with all vigour. The University Grants Commission is a statutory body with the declared objective A word about the university students' of promotion and co-ordination of univer- prospects. Prof. Ruthnaswamy was pleased sity education and of determination and to state that they could be] absorbed with maintainance of standards of teaching, ever-increasing possibility, in social services. examination and research in universities. That is an important thing which the These objectives arc supposed to be served University Grants Commission may take through financial grants to the universities note of. and the affiliated colleges. Education is a State subject, and despite the sincere and One word more and I have done. In this serious attempts of the Education Minister, Report of the University Grants Com- Shri Chagla, he has not been ante to mission, they have got a complete record persuade his friends to enlist it under tb« and a thesis, as it were, about university Concurrent List. So higher education in- education. Great emphasis has been laid cluding University education continues to upon what we very often miss, the impor- be the monopoly of the State Government. tance of general education, and the consi- deration that the University Grants Com- Under these circumstances, the U.G.C. is mission has given to this important aspect of perforce to act as a dignified post office general education is really a saving .thing rendering advice here and there and de- for which we are indeed grateful. pending upon the good sense of University 5493 Motion re. Reports of [5 APR-1966] University Grants Commission 5494

functionaries and State Governments. The tutional right to advise the Chancellor in the helplessness of the U.G.C. is manifest in case matter and excepting a few States, the of the amendment of the legislation govern- Chancellors have given in. ing the Universities in Andhra Pradesh with the sole purpose of tampering with the I would request the hon. Minister to make autonomy of the Universities of the State up its mind in all these matters and bring in and of using it as a cat's paw by the ruling at the earliest opportunity an amendment to party. The modification in the Act was the U.G.C. Act so that the Universities and hustled through despite stubborn opposition colleges will suffer from an embargo if they from all quarters including educationists of are not truly autonomous, not only in law, the country. It has not been implemented but also in spirit. because of the intervention of the Centre. The Education Minister recently at But the dark cloud in the horizon remains Calcutta has referred to the subject matter of like a Damocle's sword and other State utilisation of students by political parties. I Governments are keenly watching to know have no quarrel with him in this regard. But the result and to follow in the footsteps of let charity begin at home. Let him influence this sister State. The U.G.C. has been a his colleagues at Delhi and at State helpless witness to this political murder of headquarters not to interfere in the activities the autonomy of the higher temples of of the Universities and educational learning. Under the Act it has no power to institutions. Let these temples of learning tay 'no" to such a nefarious move excepting which are destined to produce the future utilising the only method of offering tem- generations of rulers and administrators ptation of grant and withdrawal of grant. flourish and be nurtured in an atmosphere of democratic traditions and freedom to Again. 1 can cite instances of new Uni- shoulder the heavy responsibilities that lie versities where autonomy has been given a ahead- How I wish the Education Ministry good-bye. Five years back, with the directs it attention first to these so-called triumphant victory of the Congress Party in" responsible persons. our State of Orissa; the University of Agriculture' and Technology was given But I am sorry to say that the U.G.C. birth to. If you scan the law and the statute report does not contain all these issues. Can governing this baby University, *you will the Commission fulfil its job, promote and find that virtually it is a part of the co-ordinate University education by Department of Agriculture of the State with becoming a helpless witness when the demon a managing committee. How can one expect of ignorance invades these lighthouses of nich Universities to impart knowledge to the higher learning through power-intoxicated students in a free atmoiphere. Such bureaucrats and politicians. tendencies are not confined to one State or a few States. The seeds of mischief are there Next, I want to refer to the deplorable everywhere and unless these tendencies are conditions of teachers who are still groaning curbed right now with an iron hand, all our under low salary and inflationary prices. The clamour and effort for qualitative U.G.C. promises a big share of 10 per cent, improvement of education will remain as of the enhanced salary provided the State moonshine. Governments come forward with the remaining 20 per cent. Though the U.G.C's In this connection it will not be out of revised scale of pay, which has been place to mention two other salient features accepted by the Government of India, is about our University laws. In many States very, very low in comparison to compara- the Education Ministers are the Chancellors able services under the Government, the of Universities. This is a very, very State Governments have not come forward unhealthy tendency and the sooner it is to help in the upliftment of the conditions of given a good-bye, the better for the country. these teachers. Either they fail to appreciate I need not remind you also about the con- the role of these modern gurus or sincerely troversy raging in the country regarding the fail to provide money from thin, over- power of the Chancellors in the matter of strained budgets. Whatever might be the appointment of Vice-Chancellors. The truth, low pay but the talk of expansion and Ministries in most States demand a consti- improvement of standard of education 5495 Motion re Reports of [ RAJYA SABHA ] University Grants Commission 5496

[Shri Banka Behary Das] go ill together. in spreading higher learning. Developing Is it not a fact that India spends very little on countries like India should take advantage of education? Investment in man is no less such a mass media for the purpose. 1 hope important than in-investment in industry and the Education Minister and the U.G.C. would agriculture. Without a properly paid cadre of give serious thought to this matter so that our University teachers, the U.G.C. can never attain Universities can function in the air with its purpose. There is dissatisfaction every- students learning in every home in the where. The recent agitation of teachers of country. Then only higher education will be West Bengal is fresh in our mind. How long the privilege of many and not a few. Thank an army of disgruntled and dissatisfied you. teachers be the priests of this temple of learning? The Government of India and the SHRI P. N. SAPRU (Uttar Pradesh): U.G.C. should reconsider the whole thing and Madam Vice-Chairman, as a matter of fact, should provide a decent pay scale 10 that better we have two reports of the University Grants talents can be available and also be retained. Commission before us. We have a report for The Government gives more attention to its the year 1963-64 and we have a report for 1964- pampered children, the I.A.S. officers. Not only 65. It is a matter of regret that we were not able they are given all sorts of facilities, both to discuss the report for 1963-64 before. I will, financial and otherwise, and authority to therefore, invite your attention to certain exercise, they are also allowed to direct the broad features of University education as destinies of technical personnel, scientists and mentioned by the University Grants teachers. Such a state of affairs breeds Commission. First, let me pay a tribute to the inferiority complex and stultifies the talent. We University Grants Commission and its should have a sharp departure and I am sure distinguished Chairman who is also the the Education Minister with his background and Chairman of the Education Commission. We liberal tradition can cut that Gordian knot, pro- are expecting a monumental report from him and vided he frees himself from the prison-house it will he thereafter possible for us to evolve a of environment; otherwise the 'Teachers Day' suitable educational policy for our country. May 1 say that it was my privilege to be which is being observed annually on the birth- associated with a Committee which had to day of our President, Dr. Radhakrishnan, will consider the question of higher education and remain as a formal occasion with all pious particularly the work of the U.D.C.? One of the platitudes of the rulers. features of the U.G.C. is that it has sitting In the end I want to.mention another Vice-Chancellors as Members. I have no important fact. Mr. Chagla advocates grouse that they are not people of great correspondence courses. Of course, we need eminence. I have no doubt that they are men them urgently and the Delhi University is • of very great experience but you must not poineer in this matter. I would rather request have men of divided loyalty in an organisation the hon. Minister to pay particular attention such as the U.G.C. Therefore one of our so that all the Universities in India are suggestions was that sitting Vice-Chancellors encouraged to open correspondence courses should not be appointed as members of the within the fourth Five Year Plan period. U.G.C. Then there was a suggestion—I think In this connection I stress another fact. The reference has not been made to that All India Radio should be pressed into the suggestion in the U.G.C. report—that there service of the nation to become the medium of should be at least one Central institution in higher learning. 1 have in mind the very idea every State which would maintain the highest of "Universities in the Air". When we lack standard. We have, as you, no doubt, are money, equipment and trained personnel, a aware, certain special responsibilities in few trained persons in Delhi, Madras, regard to higher education under Entry 66 of Calcutta and Bombay can man such List 1 of the Seventh Schedule. The co- "Universities in the Air" and supplement the ordination and determination of standards is a tasks of the Universities matter which vests in the Union Government. The main agency through which the Union Government discharges this function is the U.G.C. and the conclusion 5497 Motion re Reports of |5 APR. 1966] University Grants Commission 5498 to which one is driven is that it is not possible to this recommendation. 1 hope that this for the U.G.C. to be an effective body unless recommendation will be endorsed by the university education is made a Concurrent Education Commission. Subject. We have about sixty-two universities now today and we have a number of 'deemed' It is a very vast subject and I know the universities also and in the future wc shall Chair has to restrict the time, but I would have some more universities added to those like to say that we find that the financial sixty-two universities. In my own State we grants for the U.G.C. in the Third Plan were are going to have two more universities. I do very meagre, Now, we do not know what the not deplore the multiplication of universities. U.G.C. will have for the Fourth Plan period I do not deplore the fact that the poorer and you will not be able to improve the classes or the more unfortunate classes of our quality of your higher education, you will community will have •opportunities of not be able to improve the quality of your gathering knowledge by •correspondence basic research without spending larger courses which we have instituted. I think we amounts on education than has been the case have to compromise in these matters with so far. Therefore, the allotment available for some of the old-fashioned ideas of what a distribution to the universities and other university should be, but I want to say this education centres should be higher than is that it is in the interests of the maintenance of the case at present. Education should be standards, in the interests of research, that no looked upon as a productive subject, as an university should be established without the instrument which makes for greater concurrence of the U. G. C. You cannot give production and therefore also for greater that power to the U.G.C. without a • change distribution of wealth. In a well ordered in the Constitution. society endeavouring to work towards a socialist goal, education should be given the SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN: They can highest attention and, therefore, I hope that refuse to give grants. If a university is the Education Minister will press for higher established without their concurrence, they grants for the U.G.C. and will not yield to, can have a rule that they will not give grant his colleagues on this matter. to it. Then I should like to say that we need to SHRI P. N. SAPRU: They can. I was just improve the quality of our teachers in our coming to that. You cannot compel a State institutions. Something has no doubt been Government or a State Legislature to consult done to improve the salary scales, and for the U.G.C. or to abide by the advice of the that thanks are due to the Education Minister. U.G.C. but the U.G.C. should. at a matter of But then the cost of living has gone up; the principle, refuse to assist any university Administrative Services get much higher which is established without its previous emoluments than the members of the concurrence. One of the reasons why we educational service, while even British suggested that university education should be commercial houses believe in paying our made a Concurrent Subject was the fact that young man very high salaries. The result is the U.G.C. was not in a position to interfere that the best talent in our universities is not effectively under the Constitution as it exists attracted to the profession of teaching. Unless now. you have high class teachers, unless you have enthusiastic teachers, unless you have SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN: It will be teachers who arc capable of directing much better if it is made a Concurrent research and giving to the world new ideas, Subject. you will not be able to make what you want this country to be, a country of scholars and SHRI P. N. SAPRU: Therefore, I think it researchers and men of knowledge and of is desirable that in addition to higher wisdom and men and women of our country education, in arts, science and commerce, dedicated to the pursuit of wisdom in its professional education should also be within highest senst. 1 would, therefore, plead for the purview of the U.G.C. I find that the larger grants in order that the work of the U.G.C. has made a recommendation to this U.G.C. may be implemented. (Time bell effect and I hope that effect will be given rings). I may just say, Madam Vice- Chairman, that I have no desire to 5499 Motion K Reports of [RAJYA SABHA] University Grants Commission 5500

[Shri P. N. Sapru] further inflict any to advance science and increase research". speech upon you or upon the House. Now we are having the door thrown wide THE VICE-CHAIRMAN (SHRIMATI open for the American interference and TARA RAMCHANDRA SATHE): I intrusion in our education. thought you might go to lake another point. [THE VICE CHAIRMAN (SHRI M. P. BHAROAVA) in So I rang the bell. the Chair] SHRI P. N. SAPRU: I would say that it is difficult for anyone to cover a vast subject in This, I believe, is one of the most objec- a short time and I would say this that I tionable things, that has emerged from the would like my thanks to be conveyed to the recent meetings of the Prime Minister ef U.G.C. and I am grateful to the Education India and the President of the United States Minister for the admirable manner in which of America. We arc told that the funds, or the he has been administering this great Rupee funds under P. L. 480 would be department. utilised for the purposes of this particular Foundation, which is now a kind of U.S.- SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA : Madam Vice- Indian collaboration, not in India's Private Chairman, we are discussing a subject which, sector industries, not in the sphere where I think you will agree, needs special attention Tatas and Birlas dominate, but in the sphere in this House and elsewhere, because we where our scientists, our litterateurs, our have always very little time for discussing educationists, our men of learning live and education, and when we discuss, we are work. I think this is a most objectionable confronted not with one but with two thing. What will happen? I shudder. We have reports, that is to say, dividing the time had the experience in some ways of the Ford between the two reports in the ratio of 50:50. Foundation, and the manner in which it has Now that is not a good thing. I think every been functioning. We will now have an year the report of the previous year should enlargement of those activities under the be discussed. Let me start with a matter cover of the' Indo-U.S. Foundation in which which is causing us a little anxiety, namely huge funds will come, in a sense to be the autonomy of our universities and utilised in the name of education but for 'academic' institutions. The Member who has those who are not in the garden of our educa- spoken earlier has referred to the autonomy tion in the country. Why do I say this? of the universities and academic institutions and he pointed out—in his words—that it SHRI PAT1L PUTTAPPA (Mysore): Are has bee» politically'murdered. I shouldialso we discussing the Indo-U.S. joint coro-: like to deal with this subject a little, because muniquc, or the reports of the U.G.C. ? this is very very important for the promotion SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: That you* will of education in our Country. So far, we have not understand. We are discussing education the Government interfering in our education, and in that context we are discussing the or in the autonomy of our educational autonomy of education and educa: ' tional institutions, whether in the form of institutions, and also Mr. Johnsons attempts at Chancellor, or otherwise directly. Now, we invading our education. I say we should look are havig another thing, and in this after our education. connection I cannot but invite your attention to the joint communique signed on March SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN: I hope it is 29, 1966 at the time of the visit of the Indian only to commemorate the visit of our Prime Prime Minister to the White House, and this Minister and it will be entirely under the joint communique, among other things, reads control and direction of the Government of as follows: India, its policy, direction, etc. "Prime Minister Gandhi welcomed the SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Mr. Akb»r President's proposal for the establishment Ali Khan is living always under illusions... of an Indo-U.S. Foundation to promote SHRI AKBAR ALI. KHAN: No. progress in all fields of learning. The President and the Prime Minister looked to SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: ..... and to this co-operative endeavour to develop new them he adds another. This is another of his teaching techniques in farm and factory illusions, and he is welcome to it. 5501 Motion re Reports of [5 APR. 1966] University Grants Commission 5502

Now we know how Americans behave in relations with the United States of America? this matter. We have known this thing in If the U.S.A. is such a horrible country, the other countries as well and, therefore, we correct thing for us to do is to sever have no reason to think that, as far as the diplomatic relations. Americans are concerned, they will not seek to promote the same things as they have done SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I am sorry my elsewhere. I say it is a most objectionable hon. friend, Shri P. N. Sapru, is needlessly thing. It is derogatory to our national honour, troubling himself by asking questions which our self-respect and our heritage. That is are not warranted by what I am saying. what I say. For our education we do not need to set up a Foundation of this kind. We have SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN: Let us not our men of learning. We have our resources mix up politics with education. and we can utilise them, absolutely our own, independently without becoming involved or SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: Well, this mix- stuck under this arrangement. up is here and I want you to disengage education from politics. That is what I am trying to say. This you get from this Foundation and so may I ask who is respon- [THE VICE CHAIRMAN (SHRI M.RUTHNA- sible for this kind of a mix-up? Do you mean SWAMY) in the Chair] to say that President Johnson is so concerned about our cultural development and our lack Therefore I say, Mr. Vice-Chairman, it is of educational progress that he now wants to entirely wrong, and I do hope that the pump in from the Rupee counter-fund crores educationists of our country will raise their and crores in order that this nation can rise voice to protest against this attempted up ? I do not believe it. You may do so. intrusion of the U.S. money in our education. Therefore you don't say that I am bringing it I hope our education should be good free in. You have brought it in. I want to rescue from racial hatreds and animosities. I am you from the clutches and the monstrosities entirely for such education, j have love for of an arrangement of this kind. I do hope Mr. the Americans, Americans of the type of Vice-Chairman, that • Lincoln and Jefferson, but I do not like those SHRI AKBAR ALI KHAN: You are Americans, intrusion of those people whose condemning it on the basis of ideology. hands are dripped with the blood of the Vietnamese people and who want, in the SHRI BHUPESH GUPTA: I am not on any name of education and under such ideology at all. Well, I know, that is the Foundations, to influence and direct the trouble here. Even before that Foundation has policies of countries even in the cultural started there you have the advocates of the sphere, leave alone political sphere. Foundation sitting on those benches. You can Therefore, it is not a question of racial hatred easily imagine what will happen when this at all. I should like to learn from Abraham Foundation actually begins here. Then in our Lincoln and from all the other great country, in the colleges of our country, in our Americans who have contributed to that academic institutions and in our universities civilization and to the struggle for there will be such spokesmen for an arrange- independence and all those great things ment of this kind which does not justify itself. which went to the making of that great No doubt, I do not like our education to be nation. But I certainly would not like, Mr. treated in this manner. We have got today in Vice-Chairman, an arrangement of this kind the University Grants Commission a which opens the doorway for cultural competent body. There are educationists and intrusion by an alien power with the clearest this competent body to counsel us in such design for distorting and degrading our matters of education. We have got fine culture and our educational system. There lecturers, fine educationists and academicians comes the difference. I say, therefore. . . on our country at the help of our educational affairs. Why do we go to America or for that SHRI P. N. SAPRU: Would my hon. matter, any friend advocate severance of diplomatic