Lok Sabha Debates

Home , Brij Basi Lal, Sachindra Chaudhuri

Third Series1R.4 Thursday, February 13, 1964 Magha 24, 1885 (Saka)

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Seventh Session Third/RN6DEKD

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NO·4 Thursday, February 13, 1964/Magha 24,1885 (Saka)

Columns Oral Answers to Questions-

'!!.Starred Questions Nos. 61 to 69 . 437-75 Written Answers to Questions- MI Starred Questions Nos. 70 to 90 475-89 Unstarred Questions Nos. 128 to 181 ;.,;ii 490-528 Papers laid on the Table • 529-32 Motion Te: communal disturbances in East Pakistan and West Bengal-

Shri Nanda . 532-77 Motion on Address by Vice-President discharging the wnctiQns gf Pre- sident 577~87

Shri Sachindra Chaudhuri 577-88 Shrimati Subhadra Joshi 588~2 Shri A. K. Gopalan 615-33 Shri Ranga. 633--47 Shri Mahatab 647-58 Shri U. M. Trivedi 658-70 Shri A. P. Sharma 670-77 Shri Yajnik 677-87 Business Advisory Committee -

Twenty-third Report 687 Half-an-Hour discussion Te: rural Water supply 687-702

Dr. L. M. Singhvi 687-94 Dr. Sushila Nayar 696--702

·The sign+marked above the name of a Member indi:tltes that the Question was actually asked on the floor of the House by that Member. LOK SABRA DEBATES

437 438 LOJ[ SABIIA [(a) and (b). The number of primary health centres is steadily in- ThuTSciay. FebTUlLTY 13. 1964/Magha creasing with the establishment of 24, 1885 (Sakal new centres. On 30th April, 1962 there were 2571 centres with doctors, the number of centres witlh doctors The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of on 30th September, 1963 was 3042. the Clock. There is a lag between the establish- [MR. SPEAKER in the ChaiT] ment of centres and the finding. of doctors which is likely to be reduced O~~SSTO~TO~ as the output of doctors increases.]

'"'''"' W-if ~ fir.n ~ ~ aflr.'mf ''If ~~ ml,n : ~ ;toiT + ~~: ;;it " ~ ij' ~ W-fuf ~ t f'I;' ~~ ~ ~: ~~~'~ L"l"\1:;<:rf ~ t.f : tm;r Iti1: m'( ~;T t f'fi' f'fi'eA ~ ihl'fC'f ;;@ ~ I if ;;rr;;;rr ~ ~ f'I;' iM ~ ll''lfT ~ 0 iI'ffif, 'I t ~ ~ ~ « 'fi'l1 ~ it« ~ if ~ ill ffiTif'fi'a' 5I'!R' ~ ¥¥t " ~ • JIRf it ~ ~ ~ ? ~ it li\l rnr, il>"<.<'f it orgcr lf1lf ~ it ft1rn' ;~ ~ 'lIT ~ it. 'fi'ift ~ I ~ W '3'<1': ~ it . . . arm- ~ if@ it, ~ ~T': ~ a;:q" ~ : m «r lftl' m t ti m<: ~ ~ ~ ij' ''~ ~ ? ''~;T . (V) llf<:: wt. a1 'fi'ift .-,0 c[o ~ U1II' : ~ ~ if ~ ~''~;;~ f.r<'I' a I (Interruption). ~ Shri Bart VisJulu Kamath: What ~~~ (Wlo does he mean by 'ni!'? No doctr ~ ~ m1!) : ('fi') oq-)7 ~ i{if at all? ~ fiIf'fi'ffiT ~ ~ ;;rr ~ ~ m<: .-,0 ",0 ~ ~: ~ ~ ~~ if ~ SI1I1fT a'tt-Iftt ~ ";ffi N't.'f<1IFP'F:is1; ~ 'if\TIf ~ ~ ~ ? t offered or are proposed to be offered by Government to attract doctors 10 ~ ll:o ~ '(Iiii' : ~ Ij\'flI' t. for private practice, and only about 6'lIT'i it ~ mr ~ ~ f'l1 fri ~ 30 to 40 per cen t of those registered enter Government sen-:-",. That ie ~~~~~~;;;;~ one of the factors. Another factor is ;;'~~ ';T~T~~ that the amenities are also not very ;plT '~ ii.m ;~ ~ ' 'ti<;rr Mr. Speaker: He wants to know m

Mr. Speaker: That is a suggestion if fir 'l'T rn ~ f;;rq; ~ ~ December, 1963 and January, 1964; '~ ~ ~ lSIT.no ;iTo ~ T"IT ill (b) if so, what is the number of fm'if I ':T'~~'''~~~ such deaths; and 443 Ora! Anawers FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Ora! Anawers 444 (c) whether any measures are being Hr. Speaker: I do not' know what taken to guard against recurrenCe of has perplexed the hon. Members. If such deaths? the hon. Minister says 'Yes', it means that there are certain persons who The Minister of Works, Housing and have died certainly, but the number lltehabilitation (Shri Mehr Chand is not known. )[hanna): (a) and (bl. Yes, but the .umber is not known, If the hon. Member wants to know the approximate number, I have said (c) The Delhi Municipal Corpora- already that I Shall allow l).im to lion and the Bharat Sevak Samaj ask that supplementary question. He lIlilintain six Night Shelters through- cannot start asking supplemerr.ery out the year, During the winter sea- questions straightway in this manner son, the Delhi Municipal Corporation without being called. also provide additional temporary Night Shelters, Twelve such tem- Shri Barish Chandra Mathur: The porary shelters were provided in question itself is: 'If so, what is the December, 1963, number of such deaths?' If he does not know, let him say so. Mr, Speaker: Yesterday, We covered only a very small number of ques- Mr. Speaker: He has said that. tions. On the first day, we covered &even q!.lestions and on the second Shri Tyagi: Was any attempt made .y. we covered eight questions. to ascertain the number? Therefore, I would ask for the co- operation of hon. Members so that we Mr. Speaker: These are supple- JIlay move faster. mentaries that can be put. Shri Dubey. ~; Hem Barua: But thoroughness is abo a 1 hing to be taken into Shri R. G. Dubey: Have Govern- aeceunt. ment arranged for a kind of census to ascertain the number of shelterless Mr. Speaker: Not during the Ques- people in the city of Delhi? tion Hour. Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: Accord- .. Shri llari Vishnu Kamath: You ing to my information, there are Iaave to strike a balance. 6 permanent night shelters; 12 were put up temporarily during December Sb.ri Kapur Singh: Let the hon. 1963. Minister say at least whether it is a large Dumber or a small number. He Mr. Speaker: He wants to know says that the number is not known. the number of those who are shelterless. Mr. Speaker: I spall allow him an opportunity to ask that supplementary Shri Mehr Chand KhallftlL: Accord- question. ing to my information, everyone ,..ho has sought shelter has been accom- modated (Interruptions). I have to Shri S. M. Banerjee, I seek your collect the information from the Cor- protection. Sir. The number must be poration and the Bharat Sevak Samaj, known. Either it is one Or two or and I have been told that no one who lIlore. How can he say 'Yes' and at wanted accommodation in a night 1he same time add that the number shelter has been refused admission. is not known? Mr. Speaker: The question is con- IiIhri Kapur Singh: Let him give us cerning those who are shelterless. If sorne idea of the number. they seek it, that is a diiferent tlhing. 445 Oral Ans1pers MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKAl (hal 'Answers 446

Shri Mehr Chand KIwma: The Shri P. C. Borooah: Does this number Of shelterless in DeIhl must scheme include the construction 01. be running into thousands. smaller night shelters in different parts of the country instead of build- Mr. Speaker: Not known. ing big shelters in the capital areas? Mr. Speaker: We are concerned Shri R. G. Dubey: Have Govern- with Delhi in this question. ment a proper scheme under which the shelterless could be afforded shel- Shri Shree Narayan Das: Do Gov- ter and also work for their liveli- ernment propose to participate in the hood? building of such centres in future 110 that this problem may not occur? Shri Mehr Chand KhaDDa: We have got a scheme in Delhi to provide Mr. Speaker: He says none has beea accommodation to the dwellers of refused admission. jhuggis and jhompris, but we have no scheme for providing accommodation '~~:;; ~ to the shelterless. This is a migratory ~ ~' :~ population. They come into Delhi all it fOT;; -.rTlJT if; flf:8f times of these seasons, they get some itS' flf:;; 'fii ~ ~;; 'f.f ':~ m work here and then go back. It will iIl't OT~ ~:': it ~~ ~ If:T I it be a very difficult problem to tackle. G\'(';;;rr ~T ~ f'" om fI"II"I'II .."t ~T ~ ~ ~ If:T ~ f1m T~~~: ~~ iir ~ m- 'li'T q1IT ? ~ ~ ~ flf: ;;;or ~;; iir ~ CI't1 iir fi!;'ml ~;: ~ ~ ~T . . • 111" ~ ~ ~ : ~' If:[ '!ili ~: ~ ~ 'fiT ~ I 'fffClfli"l' If:UfT ~ ~ : ;;;or ~;; >it ~ fim;rT ~;;~ lIT fw-rT ''~ ;;f!7<

111T ~ SI'WR' : it ;;n;;.;r ~ '" ~ lito ~ : ~;;': tt.l"r ~ flF mfT;r< flf:crit ~ ll't mt flF'i if; If:(.t "i '!l1T ~ ;;n ~ ~ I '~ ~ 'IlT l1I<'J:."I' 9m f'fi' ~;; "'T If:r<:Vr ~ l1I<'J:.ll' ~ flf: q\! ~ 1ft I it OTr'i'ir T~~':~ ~ itU ~ ~ f if ;&. the deaths, 35, were during the month lit, pit f-.rif ~~ ~ I Of December. But as no post mortem Ora! Answers FEBRUARY 13, 19M Oral ~ examination was held, it will ,be very That is not known. He says he can- difficult for me to say whether they not say why post mortem did not died Of exposure or not. take place. Therefore, it is not pos- ~ to say how many out of the 35 Shri Kapur Siagh: The House seeks died actually of exposure, and how If' very simple piece of information, many died of other causes. whether the hon. Minister is in a position to tell us, approximately-in Shri Kapur Singh: This House tens or twenties-the number of those should be taken into confidence as to people who died because 1Ihey were whether, apart from these 35 deaths, exposed to cold. He has said that a there were any other deaths which number of people were found dead, can reasonably be ascribed to expo- but no post mortem was performed. sure to cold and whether any attempt This is no reply to our question. Is has been ~ to collect the informa- the information available or is it not tion. available, and was any attempt made to collect the information? Mr. Speaker: Order, order. This question does not arise at all. When Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: I will six or seven Members stand up, read it in English, so that it is clear it is not possible to keep to the hon. Member. order. The first rule that hu to be observed is that as soon as one is called, all the others must sit .own, According to the records 0 i the and unless he is called, no one should burial and burning grounds, 35 corpses begin to speak. After two years of of unidentified and unclaimed persons experience in this Parliament, now were brought by the voluntary or- we should at least try to conform to ganisations by the Corporation staff that. and by h~ police during the month of December, 1963. Shri S. M. Banerjee: It is correct that unless you call we should not The details thereof I have already rise, but sometimes we try to catch I:iven. ~ no post mortem examina- your eye, that is why we rise. tion was held in each case, it is very difficult to say whether they died of Mr. Speaker: And it is not yet over. exposure or not. It is not necessary that all those names that are there must be called. Shri S. M. Banerjee: Why was it .ot done? ~ ~ ~ : it "iTOfill' '~CT Shri Hem Barua: May I seek your ~ flj; ijf'T ~ ~ ll't ~'' 'T~ it guidance? He has been repeating the same story that post mortem was not ~ ij'11; it, ~ it lIT

rural areal at least have died because Shrimati Savitri Nigam: their homes had been washed away Shri Onkar Lal Berwa: .and they had no shelter. Shri Shiv Charan Gupta: Shri Surendra Pal Singh: Mr. Speaker: I did not want him L Shri P. R. Chakraverti: to make a speech. Will the Minister of FilIaDc. be Shri Krishnapal Sinch: I want to ·pleased to state: know why the Minister and the Gov- -ernment, having known that quite a (a) whe1lher L.I.C. has started a new number of people in the rural areas Hown your home" scheme; lost their homes, did not take some (b) if so, what are its broad fea- action to provide them shelter. tures; and

Mr. Speaker: The question is about (c) whether the scheme in any way Delhi alone. I do not allow it. restricts any individual policy-holder from its advantages for certain rea- ahri A. P. Sharma: The hon. Minis- sons? ter has said that nobody has been refused shelter. May I know the The Minister of Plamling (Shrl B. source of his information? Does he R. Bhagat): (a) Yes. maintain any record for it? (b) A statement giving the required Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: My information is placed on the Table of lIOurce of information is the Delhi of the House. [Placed in Libra1'l/. Municipal Corporation and the Bharat See No. LT-2275/64J. Sevak Samaj who run these shelters. (c) The conditions which have been May I add for the information of imposed for the grant of loans under 1 he House that I propose to call a the scheme are deemed necessary by meeting of the representatives of the the L.I.C. for the protection of itll Delhi Corporation, NDMC, the Delhi interests. There seems to be no parti- Administration as well as the Bharat cular reason to believe that the Sevak Samaj, to go into this question scheme will not be attractive from the a little deeper and see what best can poin t of view of the policyholders be done in the circumstances? who desire to build or purchase houses.

I may further add that every one Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: Has any who goes into a night shelter is pro- amount been set apart in this cate- vided with blankets and mattress, and gory or any applicant will get a loan? 1 he only charge, according to my information, is 25 nP. So, accommo- Shri B. R. Bhagat: :-10 amount has dation is there. If people do not want been set apart. At present the scheme to go and take advantage of that has been extended to 26 cities and it accommodation, we cannot force them is proposed to extend it to 30 more to go inside night shelters. cities: later on to other cities. Each application will be considered and L.I.C. H"using Scheme decided on merits as and when it comes. -!- r Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: Shri Bhagwat Jha Azad: In view I Shri Prakash Vir Shastri: of the necessity for housing to the I Sltri Yashpal Singh: lower middle-class people do Govern- Sltri Maheswar Naik: ment propose to recommend to LIC I Sltri p. C. Borooah: that not only in 26 big cities but at '6l. Shri Hari Vishnu ~: least in all divisional towns this i Shri Mohan Swarup: scheme should be extended? 451 Oral Answers FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Oral Answers Shri B. R. Bhapt: That is already Shrimatl Savitri Nigam.: In the covered under a different scheme statement it is stated that the rate of under which the State Government interest is 6'5 per cent for prompt and LIC help co-operative schemes payment. In other cases what is the :lor the low-income, middle-income interest? groups and others. Shri B. R. Bhagat: They will not 'It) T~: ~: '~ be entitled to the loan itself. ;T';;~ ~T 'flfT ~ it srTll': lfiJ: flF Shrimati Savitri Nigam: My point ~~ 'l\'f fqlFm f.,;r'l' it"l'T ~ l1:T ~ t is about loans sanctioned already. For miff 'IlT f'flFf'l' ~' it.rt ~ ~ ~ ~ I people not paying interest promptly, what is the rate? ~T it OI-r;; ~CT ~ flF ~'' 'l:Y",,", it; ~::'' ~ it ~ ~''T ~' ;;~ Shri B. R. Bbagat: It would be one iI>'t aflF ~'TT srfi"I'Wi"f ~ tfTqr it; f'iiflTij' per cent more--7.5 per cent. 'I<: ~~ 'l\'T ;;rflflTT ~ ~;;;T srfi"I'Wi"f """ ...~ \'\'WI ~: ~ ~ ili ~ '~ ~ 'l\'T ;;rTlflTT ? it ;;rr;;;rr 'T~ ~ f'fO f'fOi"fi\' i"I"I\' 'l\'T ~T 'fOUi\' ~ ~ i"fT ~'' 'fOf ~ ro ~ ? qr.rr 'l\'T 'liTlRT ~ ~ -a-'I' 'l\'T f'f>i"l'i't ~ i"l' T ifiT ~ ''TO~;;~~ ~ i"fT fifmOf 'l\'T

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Shri Hari Vishna Kamath: The Will the Minister of Works, HoDSIDC statement says that loans could be and RehabilitatioB be pleased to state: obtained under the scheme for 26 (a) whether it is a fact that a high- major cities. On what basis or by powered committee, including expert. what criteria has this selection of from various Ministries is being set 26 cities been made? Has there been up to make recommendations about any fixed, proper principie, or is the further development of the Dan- most-favoured treatment given to dakaranya Project; and some cities, that is, is it just an arbitrary selection? (b) what time limit has been fixed for the committee to submit their Shri B. R. Bhagat: The selection is recommendations to Government? not arbitrary. Major cities are major The Minister of Works, HoDSing IUld cities. But the main criterion is that Rehabilitation (Shri Mehr ChaDd because in such cases a lot of legal Khanna): (a) and (b). The settin. and other work has got to be gone up of such a Committee was in hand, inter-mortgages and other things- but in view of the recent develop- and therefore the LIC has very well- ments, as a result of which a deci- equipped staff and offices there, these sion has been taken to resettle in cities have been selected. At present, Dandakaranya members of the mino- the intention is that from 1st April, rity community who migrate to India two months after, 30 more cities will from East Pakistan, the setting up be included, so that as and when the of this Committee is being deferred LIC is having its staff and organisa- for the present. tion, they extend this scheme to these cities. Shri Hem Barna: In view of the present influx Of refugees from East Dr. Sarojini Mahishi: May I know Pakistan due to the communal holo- the total sum set apart by the LIC caust there, may I know whether the towards the construction of the houses Government propose to develop Dan- for the low-income and middle-income dakaranya scheme on a war ·footing? groups? Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: Yes, Sir. Shri B. R. Bhagat: I want notice. Shri Hem Barna: In view of the fact that the number of refugees Shri R. S. Pandey: How much coming from East Pakistan without money is earmarked for this scheme? valid documents is muclh larger than the number corning with valid docu- Hr. Speaker: Next question. ments-it is said that only 14,500 pe0- ple with valid documents have come whereas 46,000 have entered into Hip-Powered. Committee 011 Duu1a- kanDya Projeet Assam ~ I know whether Government propose to develop Dan- dakaranya so as to absorb all refu- Shri Hem+ Baraa: gees corning from East Pakistan lUI Shri DhaOll: a result of the recent communal holo- fShri B. P. Yadan: caust there? I Shri Bishanchander Setla: Shri YashpaI Singh: Shri Mehr Chand Khanna: This Shri Vishram Prasad: question has no relevancy to the pre- jShrimatJ Savitri Nigam: sent question, but I would like to Shri D. D. Purl: answer it, if I may. Shri p. R. Chakravertl: I 8hri Subodh Banscla: Shri Hem Barna: It is very rele- L Sbri M. L. Dwlv.: vant in the present context. ,",S5 Orat A7I8wers FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Orat Amwers Mr. Speaker: The question is resources. propose to take as whether only those that would have many there as I can rehabi- valid certificates would be absorbed litate there. My present intention is 'ilr others also would 'be absorbed. to do the work on an emergency basis to see that the least inconvenience is caused to these unfortunate people Shri Mehr ChaDd KluuuIa: I will who are coming from East Pakistan tnSWer it. There has been the migra- in the wake of these disturbances, tion from East Pakistan into India' in where looting, murder, killing and two States at the present moment. One arson have taken place. is West Bengal and the other is Some Hon. Members Tose- Assam. As regard; West Bengal, people are coming from two routes, Mr. Speaker: Aiter this long state- Dacca and Narayanganj. There, the ment by the Minister, do hon. Mem- migration certificates have been issu- bers want to ask further questions? ed, and there is no difficulty. But for those who are coming through the Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Yes. open West Bengal border, they naturally cannot come with valid docu- lit"\' 1RTIn"i ~ : '!lIT ~:: ~ ments because they have got to go a : f;;rif ''f>'f-;;rT'if ij; ~~~ ween me and the Chief Minister of ~ it ~ 'li'>: ~ ~ ~ f'li' : <\"fit i1 ;;rri't;;rr "til; ~ ment of West Bengal that they are valid migrants and they will be con- ~'' i!flfT erR, '11>: >:T;;f gil; ;~ llTfetT sidered for rehabilitation purposes. g;t ~ :~T it f;;r;:ri:f ~'TT ~T Secondly. as regards Assam, accord- ;T~ '-1"1>: i!ftu ~ '11,,1 ~;~ ~ ing to newspapers, about 50,000 people have already come and they have '9[$ ~ ~ ~ mlf ~ I \?'if ~ gone into the Garo Hills. I have sent ~T ll!lffqry ~T ;rIfT I "if ~ 11'>:- two officers to Calcutta ...... ~CT~ "'T 'Tf f'li' 'If'" ~' Cf'f'1' ere i'f' ~~O'h i!fi "1, t ~ ~'; m'f ~T "if Shri Hem Barga: That is the official ij; ~' it ~T [ ~T >n">:ifT '9ITl[i't I version, the Shillong officers' version. ''~' ~: ~ ~ ;;fI1T'1' ~ 1;1"1>: "if ;;fllT'f1 ij; ~;; i:t fJfCfifT ~

Shri Mehr Chand KhaDna: Till not 15() flfl5f11f S~ 'llrf ;~ >iff it long ago, our problem was only of a 'ffi<'!TlfT f'fi' 'is'fi'!',Olf it RR c; 0 0 0 limited nature and we were working on that basis. As the problem has ~ 1 ifit :~T Gfr' \In:''I' m'T ~'T Dr. K. L. Rao: May 1 submit that ~;; I if ~ ~ 'ffi!aT t f'f>' 'I1'1"Uf no foundation-stone was laid and only ~' ~T a commemoration stone was unveiled? m'' ~'' ~';'; 'lTij' ~ ~ m 'f>'Tlf .context? Commemorating what? '~ '

Centre or giving extra financial as- discussing this matter with the re- sistance will be considered b the presentatives of West Germany and Fourth Plan. I hope some decision will be taken Shri Dari Vislulu Kamath: The very soon. question of commemoration may be Shri P. Venkatasu.bbaiah: What is clarified. - the amount involved in tihis? Mr. Speaker: Next question. Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: It is Ia.,...taaeat GuarIUltee Aveemeat not a question of amount but a ques- with West Gel"DWlY tion of agreement for guaranteeing -j- the investment. That is why it is called Investment Guarantee Agree- (Shri S. C. Samanta: ment. I Shri Warrior: I Shri Vasudevan Nair: Shri p. R. Chakraverti: May I know I 8hri Bisbanchander Seth: whether Government propose to adopt I Shri Dhaon: an identical policy with respect to ~ Shri B. P. Yadava: other countries also? .. t Shri Maheswar Naik: Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: Yes, i Shri p. Venkatasubba.iah: that is so. I Shri P. R. Chakraverti: I Shri P. C. Borooah: Shri P. C. Borooah: May I know Shrimati ReBu Chakravartty: how far the clarification given by h~ l Goyernment of India about arbitra- Will the Minister of FinaBce be tion for settling disputes on quantum pleased to state: of compensation relating to ~ (a) whether it is a fact that Gov- German assets is likely to increaw ernment have agreed to arbitration economic aid from that count.ry? for settling disputes that may arise Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: We over the quantum of compensation have already conveyed to them that due to private West German investors we are going to follow more or less in the event of nationalisation of their a similar pattern of agreement that assets; and we ha\'e entered into with the United (b) if so, tihe reasons therefor? States for the American investment. The Deputy Minister in the MinIs- Therefore there is no question of any try of Finance (Shrimati Tarkeshwari ~ commitment on tihe part Sinha): (a) and (b). The question of of the Government of India. an investment guarantee agreement Shri Indrajit Gupta: Am I to take between India and the Federal Re- it that such an arbitration agreement public of Germany has been under is a pre-condition for further invest- discussion for some time now. The ment by private German investors in particular point regarding arbitration this country? If so, I would also like is also und Qr discussion. to know which are the other coun- Shri S. C. Samanta: May I know tries, barring the USA with which whether this question was brought we have similar arbitration agree- before the Government .by the inves- ment at present. tors from West Germany? The Minister of FiDaBce (Shrl T. '1'. Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: No. Krishnamachari): The whole thing is The discussion is going on between under di scussion. There are certaiu. the representatives of West Germany differences in our views. We have and the Indian Government. entered into an agreement with h~ United States. That forms the broad" Shri S. C. Samanta: How long will pattern to which 1fue Government of it take to come to a decision? India can agree. There are differencetJ Shrimati Tarkeshwari Sinha: Our in regard to what the German Go.,.- representative a'broad, Shri Lal, is ernment wants. Whether German ba- (hal Answers MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Oral AnsweTs 466 vestment will come only if these con- moment I do not think there is any ditions are subscribed to is lIDlIlewhat scope for multilateral discussions OR premature to say. this basis.

Shri Nath Pai: What was the Galldak and Kosi Projects nature of the discussions which the han. Finance Minister had with Dr. Scheel, the Economic Minister, when Shri Shree Narayan Das: he was here and may we know Shri Bibhuti Mishra: whether (a) the present guarantees f Shri Bishwanath Roy: available under the 'practice of this *67. { ]hri Sidhcshwar Prasad: country which has never expropriated I Shri Vishwa Nath Pandey: anybody's property, and (b) the guar- l Dr. Mahadeva Prasad: antees given in the Constitution are not adequate for the German inves- Will the Minister of Irrigatioll IlIld tor who wants to come to this coun- Power be pleased to refer to the try? reply given to Starred Question No. 115 on the 21st November, 1963 and state: Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: Han. Member will surely not expect me to (a) the steps taken to give effect to give details of the discussions when the programme of river training these matters are still under discus- works in respect of the Gandak and sion. But the House may be well Kosi Projects which was agreed upon assured that the Government of India at a conference held in New Delhi on will not commit itself to any kind of the 11lth October, 1963; agreement which wi!] be detrimental to the self-respect and honour of this' (b) the difficulties, if any, in the country or wh'oh will be in contra- way of full implementation of these vention of the provisions of the projects; and Constitution. (c) the steps taken to remove such difficulties? Shri Sham Lal Saraf: May I know The Minister of Irrigation and Power whether the policy that may be forged (Dr. K. L. Rao): (a) to (c). The after these discussions will be appli- required land for protection works on cable to investments already made in the Westem Kosi Embankment at the country or to the investments that Dalwa was made over to the Bihar may follow hereafter? Government authorities on the 20th January, 1964 and works on the ring Shri T. T. Krishnamach:>.ri: That bund and th" road bund have been again must be the subject-matter of started. The land required for the the agreement. Normally if an agree- construction of Nepal Bund and other ment is made, it will have a wide river training works on the Gandak coverage. has not yet been made over to the Uttar Pradesh Government authori- Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudhuri: May ties. The matter has been taken up I know if this principle of invest- at a high level for expediting the ment guarantee and arbitration will delivery of land in N epa!. In the be taken up with each foreign Gov- meantime work is completed on the ernment separately and agreed to by construction of the cross bunds l1li bilateral agreements or whether there decided at the Conference held in is a general principle which the New Delhi on the 19th October, 1963. Government has already arrived at? 8hri Shree Narayan Das: What ill 8hri T. T. Krishnamachari: There the position with regard to the land will undoubtedly be one principle to be acquired for the Western Kosi guidini bilateral discussions. At the Cana!? Ora! Answers FEBRUARY 13, 19M Ora! Answers

Dr. K. L. Rao: In regard to the Dr. K. L. Rao: The Gandak Barrage Western Kosi Canal, there was a cer- is scheduled to be completed in four tain alignment for which the Govern- years' time. The matter is pending ment of India has given the sanction with the Nepal Government with res- but that alignment has not been pect to the land being given on tha .approved of by the Nepal Govern- right side of the river. ment. So, negotiations and discussions are being held with regard to ,,) -';0 ~ fa',"{\' : ~ IT(f ~T t" the finalisation of the alignment in flf;' ~ ''~' 'I\"r ~ {( Nepal territory. \ f;;rwft ~ ~;' ~ If;'T !fmI' ~ ~ '~ iT ~ ~ ~ '~ it ~ Shrl Shree NaraylUl Das: What !lIT ~ ~ WF ~ o't 't\'

~~ ~ : ~ 116 OIFFrr ~ + q) f'-f1!fa &"Jlf • flf;' ~T #r ~ if S~ '" 'I.. If;'T ~ r q) ~ ~~ : ~ fl:"vr ~ ~ EllA if ~~ gel; 'I'lfr ~'~ ~T~ ~ T~ 'f?r ~~ m'l>T< ~ ~C I"') ~ Sf 0 ;rio il'lIlfi <'IT ~ -:m ~ m If;'T f1" tI' IfTifi1T ~ ? ~ .0 ~ ~:~ ~ I ~ ~ q'l<: !fiij"i1'T ~ 1f<'I"d' 1" ~ ~ 'lit try of Labour and Employmeut aDd for ~ (Shri C. R. Pattabhi ~ rn ~; ifI1" CIil !fiitit "5 ~T ~ • Raman): (a) No. ~ ;pm qq ~ ~' if h't 00 ~ , ;;f7 ~ ~ ~ ~ q"7 ~ (b) Does not arise. mm ~T ~ ~ Ii'«'" f.-r:r! ,T:n: '1>1" ~ ~ (c) The study of the Committee is '~ tn" 4"", ~ 'R: :~ ~ I l1J ~ of technical nature and relates to f!fiCT ;;mrr ~ fa; ~ ~ ~ qrfu< ~ extraordinarily difficult and complex subjects. The Government has not lIg 'l1iltr wr.f1 f,.r,.! l." !fir ~ I therefore prescribed any time limit for submission of the report. The 1111 ;T~ ~ ~ Committee is due to meet in mid- f:..ria< f; {m ~ g-lIT ~ ';~ [('l1) ;;~ I furli ~ if ~T ~ !fir qh: III 1" ;;it If'iR t ;ft ~~ 'Ilfr ~ ~ ifR lI'i-.r'fT ,,% ~ ;~ ~ 11"1 If<1cr, ~ fiffoffl:<: m6"iif ~ '1>1" f,q-;! ~ f'!>it ;;rrif

Ill' rrntrnf fWi! : ~ ~ mr Sbri SurendraDatb Dwlvedy: The '~ Q;m f5'!Ttiic ~ ~ #T ~: it hon. Minister is contradicting his own f;::q1t ~ om m>n\: ~ mit ~

they will BUbmit the report within Shri B. R. Bhagat: A number of this month. I think that that should measures have been taken. It has satisfy hon. Members. (Interruptions) been the policy of Government not to allow concentration of wealth. To that end, a number of steps have been Mr. Speaker: Order, order. I find taken. But it is difficult for me to ~ the contagion is spreading every detail them at this moment, day. The House should always remain pleasant to the eye and agreeable to the ear. But I hear so many Social Security Measares 90ices at the same time. I would appeal to hon. Members to observe r Shri Barish Chandra lIOme restraint. '69. .{ Mathur: l Shri M. L. Dwivedi: Shri &hagwat Jha Azad: That is 1tecause the expectancy has been an- Will the Minister of Finance be • _unced SO many times but nothing pleased to state: has been delivered. Therefore, we were so very eager. (a) Whether Central Government have advised the State Governments Shri Tyagi: How could it be deli- to adopt social security measures ... ered? It is abortion. announced by Finance Minister to give relief to widows and minor children Mr. Speaker: But the expectancy of deceased Government servants as should not result in unexpected deli- to oid and other persons needing ftry. assistance; and (b) What is the position in this Hon. Members ought to control regard of the public sector enter- 1hemselves. They should exercise 30me restraint. They are responsi- prises? hle Members of Parliament. The Deputy Minister in the Minis- try of Finance (Shrimati Tarkesh- 111fT ~ 'fijI( : '!lfT '~ ~ ~ flf> war! Sinha): '[ ~ ,HI if ~ ditions of service of S:a:e Govern- ~ ~ q{ ~ f'l>' ~ ! ~:'''7' ~ 't:;fMf,lI'f iii of the Government of India's orders ~~ ~~'T ''~ relating to the family pension scheme recently announced f.;r Central Gov- ~ ~ f'ti ~ >ifT'i'if-f ~ ~ f'n,t ernment employees have been for- lIi'T ~T' ~ ~ ? warded to all ~; Go,·cmrnents. This subject W:lS genera11v discussed at a '~ of S 3,:' ::S'~ of ~ ~~' : ll'll' ;r'>!l'l'l" ~; it, stantly keep before it, the mandate ;iff ~7 srffi it ~ ~ \'Jf off q;r ~ that the Party gives to it. II><

IITl(i('T QT (PilT ;(0 ~ It'''') WRITTEN ANSWERS TO (iii) 'Jfr, ~ I QUESTIONS ~ ~~ qfhpi'f (obser- 1J1i ~ :rh if f'l'tf "'ti;rr. "1:1;11 ftr

JIeBIrS. Skoda (1Ddia) PrIvate LImited (a) whether it is a fact that the 'Family Planning Day' was observed r Shri SurendraDath Dwivedy: during December, 1963, throughout Shri D. D. Puri: the country; *71. { Shri P. R. Chakravertl: so, the broad features Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: (b) if thereof; Will the Minister of Finance be (c) the total amount spent on the pleased .to refer to the reply given to 'Family Planning Day' celebrations; Starred Question No. 401 on the 5th and December, 1963 and state: (d) the steps taken to make Family (a) whether investigation against Planning more effective throughout lItessrs. Skoda (India) Private Limited, the country on a national basis? an East European firm has since been The Minister of Health (Dr. Sushila completed; Nayar): (a) Yes, Sir. (b) whether it is a fact that the (b) to (d). A statement containing office of the Trade Commissioner of the required information is laid on Czechoslovakia was searched in this the Table of the House. [Placed ill connection and some papers have been Library. See No. LT-2272/64]. seized; and

(c) whether any action has been Experimental Housing Assessment taken against the firm or any other Committee persons connected with this affair? ( Shri N. R. Laskar: The Deputy Minister in the Minis- ·73. ~ Shri Ramachandra Ulaka: try of Fiuance (Shrimati Tarkesh- LShri Subodh Hansda: wari Sinha): (a) The investigation is proceeding. Will the Minister of Works, Honsing and Rehabilitation be pleased to state: (b) The office of the Czechoslovak (a) whether it is a fact that his • Trade Commissioner was not searched. Ministry has constituted an Experi- However, certain documents belong- mental Housing Assessment Com- ing to Messrs. Skoda (India) Private mittee for urban. areas only; and Ltd., Bombay, which had been kept in the office C'f the Trade Commissioner, (b) if so, the nature and functions were handed over by the Company to of the Committee? the Bombay Customs authorities. The Minister of Works, Housing (e) Show-cause notices have been and Rehabilitation (Shri Mehr Chuul issued by the Calcutta Customs Khanna): (a) Yes, Sir. authorities, in respect of certain (b) A statement is laid on the Table aJleged offences by the Company and of the House. [Placed 'in Library. two of its officials and Messrs. India See No. LT-2273/64J. Refractories Ltd. and one of its officials. T~ 'lWT FamUyPlanDingDay * .r flfit ~ smR ltV. ~T ~ ~ .. ~ r Shri D. C. Sharma: Shrimati Savitri Nigam: L om f"" liorr ~ t:; ~ H. q ij; Will the Minister of Health be ~~~~;;~ pleued to state: if ~ iI"

(a) whether the study team OR prohibition has submitted Its final ( 'ti) iflTT )ITI!lf;;r'li ~ 'tiT f'HIT report; lIM';;nJ ~ ~ "SR'crrfOffi ~ /: f<'l'lfT tflIT ~; mendations;

( li ) ~ iff, crT ~' 'tiT ~:orra' (e) whether a COPy of the report will be laid on the Table; and T~; o;rn: (d) if not. the reasons therefor? ( ~ ~ 'tiT 'tirlfffrOffi rn if; f"ll!; ;pff '~ ~ 'foT fq.m: t ? The Deputy Minister In the MIab- try of Labour and Employment ... for Planain, : No. Sir, ~ ~'' ~ ("11mT '~ flil' lfT): ~'T f'ti .'Q"IH 'ffl ~~ (b) to (d), Do not arise, ~ '11'1'& IiI'm<: it ''T~ , i. \ '( ~ 'T~' ~ ~ 1FT l!;'ti lfT'lRT "IT,! ,rr Price Line t f;;m if; ;'T~ ;'~T IiI'm<: if; f ...... 'tilf- ~ it 'till" ~ 'tiIf l!;'f; IiI'T<'I' CI"F ..-R>U f Shri P. C. Borooah: Shri Prakash Vir Shastri: if>/: ~ ~T'T ~TT I OI'T if), if ifT lfT Shri Yashpal Sin,h: "'" T'ii ~: ",T 0ll''R''fT ~ ~' I Shri Mohan Swarup: Shri Onkar Lal Berwa: ~~ qr

(a) what further steps have been (a) whether the offices of some taken to stabilise the price line; and foreign firms in Calcutta were raided and searched on the 18th December, (b) with what result? 1963 and subsequent days on suspicioa of violation of foreign exchange The Minister of Planninl (Shri B. R. regulations; Bhagat): (a) and (b). I place a statement on the Table of the House. (b) if so, the particulars of the fIrauI [Placed in Libra",. See No. LT-2274/ involved and nature of their offenClel; 64]. and (c) steps taken against the Smugglinl of Gold offenders?

8hri S. N. Chatarvedi: The Deputy Minister in the MiIWI- Shrl P. C. Borooah: try of Finanee (Shrimati Tarkeshwad fShri Yashpal Sinlh: Sinha): (a) to (c). The officers 01 .T!. { Shrl D. C. Sharma: the Enforcement Directorate, Minister Sbri Onkar Lal Berwa: of Finance, searched the premises at Shri Prakash Vir Shastri: certain companies in Calcutta on the lSbri Mabeswar Naik: 18th and 20th December, 1963. The d,ocuments seized from these com- Will the Minister of Flnaace be panies are under scrutiny by thltt pleased to state: Directorate. As the case is still under investigation. it is not desirable to (a) whether it is a fact that there disclose further details at this stage. has been an increaSe in the smuggling of gold following the relaxation Seareh of a Caleatta Firm of Gold Control Order; and (b) if so, what are the indicatitlllS • [ Sh~ Tridib ~ Challdhuri: and what steps Government have 19. i Sbrl S. M. BanerJee: taken to meet the situation? l Shrl Indrajit Gupta: The Minister of Planninl (Sbri Will the Minister of Finance ~ B. R. Bhagat): (a) Government are pleased to state: alive to the possibility of an increase in sm uggling of gold following the (a) whether it is a fact that the relaxation of the provisions of the factories and business premises of sa Defence of India Rules relating to electric fan and sewing machine gold control, but there is no reason manufacturing firm in Calcutta an' to believe that there has been any Delhi were searched by the office ... significant increase in its smuggling of the Customs Department on charges consequent on the relaxation of the of under invoicing and violation at aforesaid provisions. foreign exchange regulations in the first week of January; (b) Does not arise. (b) if so, whether papers and incriminating documents have be. Raids on Foreil'll Finns in Calclltta seized in course of this search; and [Sbri Indrajit Gupta: (e) what action has been take. I Shri Hem Barua: against the offending persons or the "78. Shri Yashpal SiDgh: firm concerned? i Shri Nath Pai: L Shri D. C. Sbarma: The Deputy Minister in the Minia- try of FilWlcc (Shrlmati Tarkeshwari Will the Minister of FiDanee be Sinha): (a) and (b). Certain doc.- pleased to state: ments were ·taken over by the CIY- Written ~ FEBRUARY II, 19M

toms authorities at Calcutta in the cerns or in real property or in mort- . first week of January, 19M from the gage loans. As no definite proposals factory premises of a firm in Calcutta were made or discussed, and as 'the manufacturing electric fans and sew- investments in Malaysia will have to ing machines, the main office of the be made in accordance with the pro- firm's sole agents, and the residence visions of the local laws and the of a person handling the affairs of Corporation's own statute, it is not the firms. No formal search was possible to indicate any details at the found necessary. In Delhi, the busi- present stage. ness premises of the same firms were searched by the Delhi Customs authorities on the 4th January, 1964, and Central Soil Mechanics and Material some documents were seized. The Testing Laboratory firms were suspected of foreign exchange violations. Shrl C. K. Bhattacharyya: (c) The case is under investigation. rShri P. R. Chakraverti: °81. Shrimati Savitri Nigam: 8hri Ram Harkh Yadav: t8hri Ramesbwar Tantia: L-I.C. Investment in Malaysia Will the Minister of Irrigation aad Power be pleased to state: (Shri P. K. Ghosh: Shri A. N. Vidyalankar: I (a) whether a central soil mechanics Shri Kapur Singh: I and material t2sting laborato,y has ·SO. ~ 'ihri Solanki: been set up in the Central Water and Shri P. H. Bbeel: I Power Commission; Shri Himatsingka: l Shrl Ramesbwar Tantla: (b) if so, the object of setting up the laboratory; and Will the Minister of Finance be pleased to state: (c) the expenses to be incurred and how these will be met? (a) whether attention of the Gov- ernment ot India has been drawn to The Minister of Irrigation and a statement by the Chairman of L.l.C. Power (Dr. K. L. Rao): (a) Yes, in which it has been stated that L.I.C. Sir. The laboratory was set up in . proposes to invest in industrial con- 1954. It is being expanded. cerns in Malaysia; (b) To assist the Central and State (b) if so, details of the proposed Governments in the investigation and investment; and quality control during construction of river valley projects and fiood control (e) whether investment will be in works. public sector or private sector? (c) For the expansion programme The Minister of PlanDiDg (Shrl an expenditure of Rs. 19.75 lakhs is B. R. Bhagat): (a) Yes. proposed to be incurred over a period of 5 years for the site, building, sta1! (b) and (c). The Chairman of the and running of the Laboratory. This Life Insw:ance Corporation in a state- amount will be met by the Govern- ment made at Singapore in January ment of India. In addition, equipment 1964 indicated that the Corporation worth Rs. 16.00 lakhs is being obtained would explore the pa.jpilities of under the U.N. Special Fund Assist- investing its funds in industrial con- ~ 48s Written A_en MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA)

Depaslt IDsurancc Scheme Will the Minister of FiDanee be pleased to state:

( Shrl P. R. Chakravertl: (a) whether the goldsmiths in the I Shri P. C. Borooah: country have been given the choice I Shri Bimatsingka: either to become self-employed or to· en. ../, Shri D. I. Naik: claim rehabilitation grants; Shrl A. V. RaghavaD: \ Shri Pottrkkatt: (b) if so, when the scheme will be l Shri Kappen: brought into force; and (c) what has been the response, if. Will the Minister of Finance be already introduced? . pleased to state: (a) whether the Reserve Bank has The Minister ot Planning (Shrl taken steps to extend the scope of the B. R. Bhagal): (a) Yes, Sir. Deposit Insurance Scheme; (b) The scheme for rehabilitation (b) if so, in what direction; and has already come into force and liberalis8d terms of financial assist- (c) whether this scheme will be ance were communicated to the State made applicable to co-operative banks Governments on 26th December, 1963. facilitating the increase of deposits in (c) On the whole, the response to Ute same? the liberalised scheme for rehabilita-. tion has been satisfactory. The Minister of Planning (Shrl B. R. Bhagat): (a) to (c). The ques- Review of Sales-tax Structure tion is under consideration. ( Shri Maheswar Naik: I ShTi Yashpal Singh: Rehabilitation of Goldsmiths I Shri Prakash Vir Shastri: I Shri Bishanchaoder Seth: r Shri Dhagwat lha Azad: *M. Shri B. P. Yadava: I Shri Bibhuti Mishra: i Shri Dhaoo: i Shri B. P. Yadava: I Shri D. C. Sharma: Shri Bis':anchander Seth: I Shri Shiv Charan Gnpta: Shri Dhaon: Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath: Shri O. C. Sharma: l I Shri Shiv Charan Gupta: Shri P. C. Borooah: Will the Minister of Finance be Shri Warior: pleased to sta te: Shri VasudevaD Nair: (a) whether it is a fact that the Shri ledhe: Central Government have suggested Shri S. C. Samanta: to the State Governments to under- *83 J Shri Subodh lIansda: take a comprehensive review of the I Shri M. L. Dwivedi: sales-tax structure; Shri Mohan Swarup: Shri Maheswar Naik: (b) if so, the various aspects which Shrimati Savitri Nigam: the suggested review wiil cover; and Shri Surendra Pal Siugh: (c) the reactions of the State Gov- Shri S. M. Banerjee: Shri Kolla Venkalab: ernments to the proposal? Shri P. R. Chakravertl: The Deputy Minister in the M"mIs- Shri S. N. Chatu"edi: try of FlDance (Shrlmatl Tarkesbwad Shri DaIlit Singh: Sinha): (a) No, Sir. Shrl S. B. Patil: L Shrl Ram Barth Yadav: (b) and (c). Do not arise. Written Al\StDers FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Written Amwers 488 Aid from U.S.A. Economic and ~ PolleT rShri P. C. Borooah: I Shri Yashpal Singh: ·S7. SIui Hari Vishnu KamaUa: I Shri D. D. Puri: Will the Minister of Planning bt' I Shri P. R. Chakraverti: pleased to state: *85. -{ Shri Subodh Hansda: I Shri S. C. Samanta: (a) WheU12l' Government propose I Dr. P. N. Khan: to mOdify its economic and industria I Shri M. L. Dwtvedl: policy as well as its planning pro. l Shri Kami Sinl"hji: gramme in the light of the resolutia. adopted by the Congress party at Will the Minister ot Finanee be Bhubaneshwar in Januarv :964; and pleased to state:

(a) whether the U.S.A. has agreed (b) if so, the broad outlines there- 10 give economic aid to the tune at of? '.$435 million during the ensuing year; (b) it so, on what terms; and The Depaty MinIster In the M1nIB- try of Labour and Employment aJl' (c) the manner in which this (or PIIlBIli.ag (Shri C. R. Pattabhl amount will be allocated to different Raman): (a) and (b). The Planninc projects? Commission is considering in consul- tation with experts the implication. The Deputy Minister in the MIDis· of providing the minimum standarll .tr,- of Finance (ShrimaU Tarkeshwari ."Sinha): (a) No, Sir. ot living and of changes in the stra- tegy of economic growth and income distribution. (It) and (cl. Do not arise. General InsuranCe by L.l.C. Fleod Control Schemes In Assam {Shri Tridib KIUIIIU' r Shri N. R. Laskar: Shri Ramachandra Ulaka: I Chaudhurl: i -88. Shri P. C. ~: "86. j Shri Subodh Hansda: Warlor: Shri P. C. Borooah: SIIri 1Shri Vasudevan Nair: 1Shri J. N. Hazarika: Will the Minister of Irrigation alld Will the Ministel' of Flnaaee of ·P8wer be pleased to SLate: pleased to state: (a) whether long term measures to (a) whether general insurance control floods, in two major rivers companies have decided to close viz., "Brahmaputra" and "Barak" in their business since the decision of Assam have been discussed by the the L.I.C. to enter the field of general Central Flood Control Board; and insurance has been announced; and (b) if so, the decisions arrived at in this regard? (b) whether the question ot takin, over the business of such compania. The Minister of Irrigation and and their staff has been considered Power (Dr. K. L. Rao): (a) While no by L.I.C, subsidiaries like Oriental aIWI specific proposals were discussed, the Jupiter? Flood Control problem of Assam was generally reviewed at the meeting of Ute Central Flood Central Board beld The Minister of PlaDJling (Sbri on 18th January. 1964. B. R. ~: (a) No.

(b) Does not ariae. (b) Does not arise. MAGHA 24, 1886 (SAKA) Written At\a\Oen

Development of Greater Calcatta •• r Shri D. e. Sharma: . L Shrimatl Savitri Nigam:

Will the Minister of FiDaace be ~~ ... 1IIt1 ~~ ~ pleased to refer to the reply given 'l'0f1 t ~ 'I t \ ~ if; ~ to Starred Question No. 385 on the ~ ~ '~ if; 7,ffl, if; ~ 5th December, 1963 and state the pro- if gress made in the finalisation of the If& ;rnrif

Water Rates in N.D.M.e. Area .oBI f Shri Maheswar Naik: . l Shri D. e. Sharma: (If) ~~ ~T ~T ~: Will the Minister of Health be pi eased to state: .rmr: ~ ~ if If'f.Tfmr om ~ t' ~ '1fT "",if qr.r1 ~'; m-t (a) whether it is a fact that the rates for supply of water for various ('If) ~ '1fT ~ 'flIT ~ purposes within the jurisdiction of New Delhi Municipal Committee are ~: T

(b) whether the Union Govern- ~T 1i",1 (1111 1(0 '(To ~ : ment have approved of the higher ('f.) ~ ('if). ~' f

'rile IIiDJs&er Of Bealtll Grants-in-aid have' been liven to the following Homoeopathic 130. f S~ Hari Vi..'lhna Kamatll: Institutions upto December, 1963:·- L !ihn P. C. Borooab. Andhra Pradesh Will the Minister of Works, Boas- 1. The Andhra Provin- ing and Rehabilita tion be pleased t" cial Homoeopathic Medi· refer to the reply given to Starr::o.i cal College, Gudivada Rs. 33,433 Question No. 535 on the 12th Decem- ''''1', 1963 and supp",menlaries ~ Kera14 thereon and statE: 2. The Athururuwa Homoeopathlc Mellical (a) the dimensi!'r,; of the two-room College, Kottayam Rs. 24,725 quarters under construction on Pan- MaharcuhtTa chkuin Road; 3. Bombay Homoeopa- (b> whether any minimum furni- thic Medical College. ture will be provided and if so, what; Bombay. Rs. 50,000 West Bengal (c) whether then; will be windows, kitchens and stores. and 4. D. N. De Momoeopa- thic Medical College. (d) what rent will be charged, Calcutta R&. 20,000 inclusive of ~: and water? (b) To advise' the Ministry of 'Helath on matters relating to the de- The Minister of Work!;, Bousinrr Yelopment of ilomoeopathy, a Homo- and RehabilitatiOn d to 7~ prr cent. of the emolumento nf the ~5 3. Dr. C. G. Pandit, Dil'ector, Indian Electricity and w',::',', h~ "'ill be Council of Medical Research. paid by the '~ directly to t.i'.e 4. Deputv Financial Adviser, Minis- New Delhi Muni;il-al ComlT,iltce on try of Health. ' the basis of actnal (,rmsumption. 5. Dr. J. N. ~ Calcutta. 8. Dr. N. Z. Nandurkar, Yeotmal Demolition of Constitution Bouse 7. Dr. M. C. Batra, Bombay. 131. Shrl Barl Vishnu Kamath: WUl 8. Dr. Yudhvir Singh, Delhi. the Minister Of Works, Boasin&' ami 9. Dr. S. N. Chadd'l, Allahabad. Rehabilitation be p!€'ased to qtate: Member-Secretary (a> the name ')! the person who 10. Dr. K. G. Saxena, Honorary, Ad· has been assigned the contract for de- 'riser in Homoeopathy, ~ of molition of Constitution House; Health. (b) the terms and conditions of the The non-official representatives on eontract; the Committee have been nominated DJI the basis of thell service to the (c) what is proposed to be built Oft homoeopathic ~ of medicine. that site, and when; and (d) whether it baS 'been decided to (a) whether the Sub-Committee .et put up a plaque same-where on the up to go into the question of high eo"t ate commemorating the historic land- of production in Kolar Gold Milia mark that was Constitution House? has submitted ita report; and

'I'Ile MiDister 01. Works, Bo1lSlDc'" (b) if so, the ftndinp of the C0m- &ebabilltation (Shri Mf'hr ChaDd mittee and action taken thereon? Ithallllll): (a) Messrs. Hariyana Dis- mantling Co., Yusuf Sarai, New Delhi. The Minister of Finance (Shrl T. T. (b) The value of the salvaged mate_ Krlslmamachari): (a) The Sub-Com- rials had been assessen and a reserv!!' mittee has sinCe submitted its report price of Rs. 1'88 lakhs fixed. The to the Finance Minister. who is the highest bid of Rs. 2.82 lakhs against Chairman of the Board of Manage- this reserve price of Rs. l'3S lakhs was ment of Kolar Gold Mining Under- made by this firm ant! has been accept. takings. The recommendation, made ed. The agreement for the demolition by the Sub-Committee will be consi- has been drawn u!> on p.w.n. Form· dered in a meeting of the Board of 47, which inter atia, provides as fol- Management. On receipt of the re- lows: commendation, of the Board 01 (i) The work shall be completed Management, Government will take within a period of four suitable decisions month, from the 13th Novem- ber, 1963. (b) The main recommendations 01. the Sub-Committee are amalgamatioD ~ No demolition shall take place of two of the three mines, centralisa- before the fuJI amount of the tion of purchases and centralisation of bid has been paid by the con- certain workshop, civil engineerin,l tractor. and sanitary services. Regarding (iii) The contractor shall demolish surplus labour, they have suggested the building to tlle ground (i) a voluntary retirement scheme level remove the mr,lba 'from with normal retirement benefits and the site and !eave the site certain retrenchment benefits to level, cleared and tidy at his workmen nearing the retirement age, own expense. (ii) alternative employment near about the Kolar Gold Fields to as (iv) The contractor shall be res- many workmen as possible and (iii) ponsible for any damage done phased retrenchment of the remaining in the demolition and shan surplus workmen. Action on these idemnify Government against recommendations will be taken on re- all claims on this. account. ceipt of the formal recommendations of the Board of Management. (v) The contr'lctor 8liroll acquirt' no interest comprised in the ~h Schemes In PuJtja1J said property in the land. (c) A multi-storeyed hostel. Cons- 133. Shri DalJlt S~h: Will t!w truction will commence soon after Minister of Irrigatiol'l and Power be the clearance of the site. pleased to state: (d) Yes. (a) the research schemes sanctiQlled Kolar Gold Milies in . Pun.iab by the Central Board' 01. Irrigation and Power during ~ 132. Shd Sham Lal Saraf: Will the and Minister of Finance be pleased to refer to the replv given to Starred (b) the total amO'Jnt ~ ff1r -Question No. 404' on the 5t.. Decem- the schemes and the location of the ber, 1963 and state: centres! 495 ~ Answer, FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Written Answer, The Minister of IrrigatiOll IUld The MiDJster of Health (Dr. SasbIJa Power (Dr. K. L. Rao): (a) No new NaYar): The number of Family Wel- research scheme was sanctioned dur- fare Planning Centres (redesignated) ing the year 1963-64. However, the functioning at present in Punjab ia following two Organisations in tht' given below:- Punjab continued research on the problems already allotted to them:- Rural Urban Total (1) Land Reclamation Irrigation State GoV!. 43 15 58 and Power Research Institute, Amritsar. loluntary Organisations 122 24 146

Basic study on 12 problems per- Local Bodies 3 taining to River Valley Pr0- jects. 165 42 2.07 (2) Directorate of Inspection and Control, Bhakra Dam, Nangal Besides these, there are 148 Con- Township. traceptive Distribution Centres-13o. Basic study on the problem per- in rural areas and 9 in urban areas. taining to sedimentation in streams and reservoirs. KDlIht Ashram of Rajghat, New Delhi (b) (1) Land Reclamation Irriga- tion and Power Institute, Punjab. 135. Shrl Ram Harkh Yadav: Will the Minister of Health be pleased to Half yearly release of grant sO far state: made in 1963-64 is Rs. 50,0001-· (2) Directorate of Inspection and (a) whether the Kusht Ashram of ContrOl, Bhakra Dam, Nangal Town- Raj ghat, New Delhi had approached ship. Government for suitable help; and The Bhakra Dam authorities have (b) if so, the details of the help, if agreed to meet the expenditure on the any, given to the Institution by the atudies by the Directorate of Inspec- Government? . tion and Control, Bhakra Dam. The Minister of Health (Dr. SushIla During the year 1963-64 the amount Nayar): (a) No. provided for study of the problem in the Directorate is as follows:- (b) Does not arise. Rs. (I) 1720420 Provided by the inter- Scheduled Castes and Scheduled State Soil Conservation Tribes Board & to ~ shared .... Shri R. G. Dubey: by the States of Pu- DI. jab and Himachal Pra- "'hrl Vishram Prasad: desh in the ratio of 3:4· ; Will the Minister of PllUlJliuc be To be borne by the pleased to state: Bhakra Dam Project. (a) whether it is .. fact that Dr. V. K. R. V. Rao, a Member of Planning Commission, has written to the Chief Ministers of States, (.'mpna31slng the .' Famll,. PIaJmIDc CliDics In PaDjab need for providing Edell,late (.!,portu- nities for education, traming and em- 134. Shrl Daljit Singh: Will the ployment to Scheduled Ca,tes and Kiriister of Health be pleased to state Scheduled Tribes; and the number of family planning clinics (rural and urban) functioning at pre- (b) if so, the reactions c,f State sent in Punjab? Go\'ernments thereto'.' 4'Tl Written A1I8Wers MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answers The Minister of ~ (Shri B. Cancer kUling Herb L h~: (a) and (b). A letter 138. Shri Yashpal Singh: Will the ..,as sent by Dr. V. K. R. V. Rao not Minister of Healt.h be pleased to refer to the Chief Ministel'd of States, but to the reply given to Starred Question \0 the State Ministers incharge of No. 638 on the 12th September, 1963 welfare of Scheduled Castes and regarding cancer killing herb and SCheduled Tribes reqUl.'stmg them to state the further progreso made with attend the Seminar on the employ- regard to the researche. and popula- ment problems of Srheduled Castes rising the same? and Scheduled Tribes, held in New Delhi from 30th January, 19E4 to 1st The MiDlster of Health (Dr. SashIIa February, 1964. The Seminar was Nayar): Clinical trials with the ~ attended by Ministers inrbarge of have been arranged by Mis Sandoz in Welfare of Sh~ C,.stps and six institutions in the country, namely, Scheduled Tribes from Assam, Bihar, the Tata Memorial Hospital, BembRY Punjab, Mysore, Orissa, mtar Pra- G. S. Medical College, Bombay, the desh and West Bengal; Minister for Cancer Institute, Madras; the Chris- Finance Manipur; Deputy Minister for tian Medical College and Hospital, Social Welfare, Rajasthan; Officers Vellore; the Chittaranjan Cancer from all State Governments; Shri Research Centre, Calcutta and the .1agjivan Ram, Shri B. S. Murthy, Institute of Postgraduate Medical Deputy Minister .tor Community De- Education a.n.cl Research, Calcutta. Telopment, Shri U. N. Dh£bar, Shri These trials are still in progress and Jaipal Singh and Prof. M. N. Srinivas have not yet been completed. The of Delhi University. A ~ of the potentialities of this drug can be COn- Seminar is undpr prel)aration and will firmed only after the res,.:]( s of the be sent to the Stat" Gov!'rnments for above trials are available. The ques- assessing their reactions. tion of taking steps to popularise the drug does not therefore arise at this Awards tor Central Esclse Oftlcers stage. It is, however. understood that a 137 r Shri Yashpal SinP: .\ Shri Krishna Pal Singh: drug based on the active principles from Podophyllum h~ was Will the Minister of be marketed in Switzerland in early pleased to state: 1963. The drug is not commercial'y· available in India yet. (a) Whether Government are plan- Ding to give awards to Central Excise Skin Diseases by use of Nylon Offtcers; 139. Shri Yashpal Singh: Will the (b) if so, the details of the propo- . Minister of Health be pleased to state: M1; and (a) whether the Government of (c) by what time it is expected to India have reached the conclusion that be given effect to? the use of nylon. acetate, terylene produces sikn diseases; and The Minister of Finance (Shri T. T. (b) if so, what preventive measures Krkhnamacharll: (a) A scheme for Government propose to take in the grant of awards to Central Excise matter? Offtcers was introduced in 1962. (b) A copy of the Scheme is placed The Minister ot Health (Dr. SushlIa on the TabJe of the House. [Placed in Nayar): (a) and (b). No investiga- Libra1'1/. See No. LT-2277/64]. tion has been carried out i,n this country. Information from other {c} Awards to 9 officers were an- countries is not conclusive as to whe" -oWlced under the Scheme on the Re- ther the cases reported ~ due to JNblic Day, the 28th January, 19M. nylon i.tselt. In tropical countries it 499 FEBRUARY 13, 1864 soo ill possiJble that its non absorbent (.) where Governmeat have AIle- eharac:tec- may ,be responsible for NIl' ticme!l the amount Mked for by the cases of prickly heat alld skin irrita- !terata State to oomp1ete the major tions especially amo.n.g those with very irrigation IChemes of tIhe State includ- sensitive ekin. ed in the '11hird Five Year Plan; IUld Small UDits iD Chemical IDdllStr7 (,b) if so, what Is the amount sanctioned? 140. Shri Maheswll4' NaIk: Will the The Minillter of IrrlgatiOll ... Minister of PlaDDiDr be pleased to Power (Dr. K. L. Rao): Ca) No. state: Cb) Does not arise.

Houses on hire parchase basIlII (c) The land will be held by the 143. Shri p. C. Borooah: Will the allottees on perpetual lease according Minister of Health be pleased to refer to the standard terms 8nd conditions to the reply given to Starred Ques- fOr lease of developed land prescribed tion No. 386 on the 5th December by Government. 1963 and staJte: ' (d) The houses are intended to meet the needs of persons in the low and (a) the progress made In the con- middle income groups. .truction of the houses under hire purchase basis; Ashoka Hotel (b) the types of houses being con- structed under this scheme and the 144. {Shri IIa.ri Vishn1l xan.th: estimated cost of each tenement and Shri Barish Chandra Mathur how the cost will be realised from Will the Minister of Works, HollSiDg the allottees; and Rehabilitation be pleased to refer (c) whether the land a pertaining to the reply given to unstarred ques- to thege houses will be held by the tion No. 747 on the 28th November allottees on lease. and if so what will 1963 and state: ' be the terms of the lease;' and (d) the category of people for whom (a) the points of disagreement bet- these tenements are meant? ween the views of the Managing Director and those Of some of the The Minister of Health (Dr. Soshila Directors of the Ashoka Hotel; Nayar): (a) Out of the 10 pilot pro- (b) whether efforts were made to jects sanctioned by the Delhi Develop- reconcile them; and ment Authority for the construction (c) if not, the reasons therefor? of 346 double-storeyed houses (692 dwelling units), execution of two pro- The Minister of Works, Hoasin&' and jects for construction of 82 houses (164 Rehabilitation (Shri Mehr Chand dwelling units) was entrusted to the Khanna): (a) to (c). The dis- Central Public Works Department who agreement of views mainly have awarded the work to the contrac- pertained to the following questions: tor. The remaining 8 projects for construction of 264 houses (528 dwell- (i) whether fareign exchange should ing units) are being executed through be allowed for himself and Illi wife the agency of private architects whose to undertake a world tour to study preliminary plans for these houses the latest development in the hotel have been approved and detailed industry notwithstanding the fact that drawings and estimates therefor are the Manager Of the Hotel was under- under preparation. taking a similar tour with a study team sponsored by the National Pro- In addition to the 10 pilot projects, ductivity Council; construction of further 2,500 dwelling (ii) whether he should be pennitted units under this scheme is being to draw sitting fees far the meetings undertaken and the matter is under of the Board of Directors and its consideration of the Delhi Develop- Committees, notwithstanding his being ment Authority. a whole-time paid Director of the (b) The pilot scheme provides for Company; and construction Of double-storeyed (iii) whether the Comptroller and houses (with twolthree rooms in each dwelling unit) On plot sizes of 80 to Auditor-General was correct in making 200 sq. y.ads. at an estimated cost the observation in his comments on the Audit Report on the Hotel for varying from Rs. 18,000 to Rs. 49,000 1962-63 that he had been allotted each. A part of the cost would be ·board and lodging facilities valued at recovered in lump sum at the outset Rs. 6.1501- per month on payment of and the balance in suitable monthly Rs. 5001- per month only. instalments. 2045(ai) LS--3. 50 3 Written AnsweTS FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Written Answers S04 q'mf ~ .tf\o .-non iItiA Health Targets for Deihl ~ 'lfr ~ SRrR: 'fliT ~ 141. 8hri Shiv Charall Gupta: Will the Minister ot Health be pleased ~T l111: 'T~ 'FT FIT rn fift : to state: ( ift ) 1hT it "f"T f.!>cr;f ~ "fJli it (a) the provision made in·the Third ~ iftT li

Point of supply Date of com- Contract Max.-de mencement of demand in mand in supply KVA KVA duri ng t he year

I. Durgapur 2.1-II-1955 100 144 2.. Burdwan Iceo 520

3. Pandaveswar 400 ---21-5·1954 538 TOTAL 15')0 Written Answers MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answers SIC> Second Five Year Plan meet the demands. At the end of the The West Bengal State Electricity Second Five Year Plan, i.e. 1960-61. Board wanted the D.V.C. to supply the West Bengal Electricity Board 18,500 KV A of power to them at SIX were taking supply at five places, de- places and the Corporation agreed to tails of which are given below:

Date of Comm- Contract Max. Point of supply encement of Demand in demand in supply KVA KVAduring the year.

I. Durgapur. 21-II-1955 927 2120 2. Burdwan 9-3-1956 1000 2409 3· Kharagpur 4-1-1958 3500 2533 4· Benachitty . S~ 100 ISO Pandaveswar 2.020 5· 21-5-1954 ------970 TOTAL 6497 9253

With the availability of additional Neemuch Opium Factory power from 75 MW generating units at Bokaro and Durgapur 18.500 KVA 155. Shri U. M. Trivedi: Will the of power was released' to the West Minister of Finance be pleased to Bengal State Electricity Board in state: April, 1962. Besides this, an addi- (a) The numb",r of employees in tional quantity of 3,000 KVA of the Neemuch Opium Factory who have power was also released to the Board, put in more than 15 years of service; thus bringing the total allotment to 21,500 KVA. Th" Board had inform- (b) th", numbe: out of them who ed the Corporation that they would have been confirmed and since when; require 19,800 KVA of power from and the D.V.C. system at six places which (c) the reasons which led to their was in fact less than the aliotment continuous emplo)'ment as temporary made by the Corporation. hands for mc.re than three years?

The Minister or Finance (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari): (a) 28.

(b) 11 as under:- (b) The West Bengal State Electri- city Board intimated in 1960 that 1952 their reqnirement of power from 1959 D.V.C. during the Third Plan period 9 1960. including railway electrification would be about 80,000 KVA. However, later (c) Before 1954 the entire Iabou. on, this demand has been modified to Eshhlishment was temporary and about 70,000 KVA. About 35,000 paid from continpencies. There was, K.V.A. of power is now being sup- therpfore, no qu('stion of confirming plied by D.V.C. to West Bengal. Th!! them till then. 'I heir service up to balance can be made available on 1954 did not als') count for seniority. commissioning of ChandrBpurB Ther- In 1960, a linIite:i number of perma- mal Power Station by about end ot nent po3'..s were sanctioned. The 1964. ports in the factory form part at a sn Oral Answers FEBRUARY 13, 1964 combined cadre v:ith other field estab- (b), if not, the reasons for the delay? lishment in Madhya Pradesh and Raj&Sthan, for th.. purpose of confir- The Minister of Irrigation aad mation. These pP.lmanent posts were, Power (Dr. K. L. Rall): (a) and (b). therefore, 110t ex:lusively available to Yes. The Projects have been techni- the employees of the Factory and cally cleared and the Planning Com- persons wah a ~ length of ser- mission will be isSuing sanction letters. vice, though not actually serving in the factorv had to be given priority for this put-pose.

BhakraDam ~; ~ ~ ~ : ;m f.nri'ar, 156. Shri Hem Raj: Will the Mi.ni&- ~ i' ~ ~ ij;q;;r lrRm Will the Minister of JrrIratlOD and 'T::~~ Power be pleased to state: (+r) ~T <'fI"ir !liT ~ ~ ;:r{f (.) whether Government have given technical clearance tor Sri8ailam IIDd ~ I ~ m1:t'li ~ .:ft, ;;it 'fI1I' 1Ii"'t Pochampad projects, whose founda- vn:r ~ m IliT ,ffOZ" V ~ ;it ;;rr tlOII8 were laid by the Prime Minister; ~ I ancl 513 Written Answer. MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Written AnswerB 514

Llmltatioll!l on Income aDd Property distributary and two foot bridges. Temporary arrangements for these (Dr. L. M. SiDghvi: structures will, however, be made fO!' lS9. ~ Shri p. C. Borooah: the monsoon season of 1964. LShrl Mohan Swarup: Will the Minister of ~ be (b) The progress made on the main pleased to srate: items of work is as under: (a) whether it is a fact that Govern_ ment are actively consida1ng imposi- Earth work. Out Of a total quantity tion of limitat'ons on individual in- of 619 lakhs cu.ft. of earthwork invol- comes and urban properties; and ved, about 348 lakhs cu.ft. has been excavated upto 15-1-1964. Further (b) if so, details thereof? work is in progress. The MlDister of PlaDDiDg (Sbrl B. R. Bridges. Two rail bridgl!s have Bbagat): (a) and (b). The imposition been completed. Work is in progress on of limitations on incomes and proper- four out of six road bridges, the pro- ties is part of the wider question rela- gress ranging from 45 to 95%. Work ting to avoidance of concentration of on the remaining road bridges is ex- economic powl!r. This has been accep- pected to start soon. Out or four ted as one of the important objectives foot bridges, work is in progress on enunciated in successive Plans. Vari- two, the progress being 20% and ous steps have been taken from time to 80%. Work on the remaining two time to achieve the objective in view. foot bridges has recently been taken But, precise measures directed towards up. placing of limitations On individual mcomes and urban properties can be Other Structures. Remodelling of considered only after the basic objec- the Kakraula road bridge into a regu- tlves for the Fourth plan are defined lator has been completed. Remodel- In clear terms ling of Aqueduct on the Deihi tail distributary, will also be taken up NaJatprb NIIIIab soon.

J Shri Rameshwar Tantla: Gold ContrOl Rules 110. l. Shri P. C. Borooah: 161. Shri Rameshwar Tutia: Will Will the Minister of Irrigation and the Minister of FiDance be pleased Power be pleased to state: to state: (a) whether any dead-line has been fixed for the completion of the pro- (a) whether the bullion merchants ject for deepening and widening of the sent a deputation to place their views Najafgrah Nullah in New Delhi; and on the Gold Control Order before Government; and (b) the details of the progress of the work on the project? (b) if so, what are their grievances and how far they can be removed? The Minister 01 lrrlcation and Power (Dr. K. L. Rao); (a). E1forts The Minister 01 FInance (Shrl T. T. are being made to complete the work' )[;rIshnamacbari): (a) Yes, Sir. of phase II by June 1964. It is prog- rammed to com,Plete the earthwork. Stl'1llctures are excepted to be comple- (b) They have submitted that Gold Control be withdraWJI. ~ ted, except 'for two road Bridges (G.T. If this not posaible, then, Road Bridge and Asllram Road Bridge) aqueduct on the Delhi tail 0) the concession to remake orna- SIS Written AnsweTs FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Written Answers S16 ments of over 14 carat purity from old ;~ W!l'llI "ITT ';~' '" Qi ornaments be extended to them also; (lilT ~T:'' ~ (oer) Cf'f.. ~ (ii) dealers should be permitted to ~ it ~ ~ ii1r iii Iii;r (""""") lieU old ornaments freely; ~ l!fIO ~;' lR iIif :~ &, (iii) Government or the State Bank f;;r;r it <'!lllnT 'I 'I . f.. ~ 't tTTf<'f'lrt ~ i!t ~~ q"{ ~ 'l\'Tl'f -Rif ~ "lI'T ;~ ~' iffiI'T it ii{U qm: ~ t ~ fG:if ~; 11m rn (Ii') IflI'T ~ it ~ ~ if (oer) '~ fifl'fTvl-'I\'TlI' 'I\'iI'

~ ~ ~ ~T ;~ (a) whether the families evicted from the Purana Quila, New Delhi in '~~ ~: the month of October, 1963, have bee. ~ if l1rnT if ift ;;ncrr ~ (b) the number of families still in ;;mIT ~ ~ ~ ~ the transit camp, and yet awaitin& IIIR C!&T <::r i!i1 "" rehabilitation; and f.r(w ~ I Q:Ti!r ~ ~ it; ~ 'R (C) how long it wll take to settle ~ it; 'I1f{1Il' ~'T' ~ f'li

The Minister of FiDaDce (Shrl T. T. Insanitary Conditions In DeIhl Schools KrishDamacharl): (a) Yes, Sir. 166. Shri A. N. Vidyalankar: Will (b) The Central Board of Revenue, the Mini5ter of Health be pleased to in exercise of the powers vested in it state: under Section 129 of the Customs Act, 1962, had directed the Collector (a) whether it is a fact that the of Customs, Calcutta that, pending de- sanitary conditions in most of the cision On the appeal filed by the firm sMools in Delhi area are hopeless with the Board, the fines and penalties and great risks to the health "f the impoSed in respect of the company children are involved; and need not be collected in cash. How- (b) if so, the steps taken or being ever, suitable steps are being taken taken to remedy the situation? to sa'eguard the amounts due, by bonds executed by the finn and an The Minister of Health (Dr. Sushila authorisation to be executed by the Nayar): (a) No, Sir, though impro- firm in favour of the Collector of vement is possible in some cases. Customs, authorising him to receive (b) The Corporation authorities are certain amounts claimed to be due to being advised to ensure good sanita- the firm from the Iron and Steel tion in all the schools. Controller. Rehabilitation 01 Relagees Evicted Madras as 'A' Class City from Parana QuIla, New Delld 167. Shri SezhiYan: Will the Min- 165. Shri A. N. VldyalllDkar: Will ister of Flnauce be pleased to state: 1Ihe Minister of Works, HolISfDg lUId (a) the area taken, in aad around ItehabiUtaUon be pleased to state: Madras city for consideration of 'A· 519 Written Answers FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Written AnsWeTB 520 clalq; status for payment of special allowances to the Central Govern- ment employees; and 169. Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the Minister of FiDanoe be pleased to (b) the number of employees state: benefiting by the upgrading of the (a) whether the advisability of Madras city? amending the ninety year old Indian Pensions Act has been considered; The MiDlster of Flnanee (Shri T. (b) if so, the action taken in the T. Krishnamachari): (a) The area matter; and within the limits of the Corporation. (cl if not, the reasons therefor? (b) The number on 31st March, 1961 was 69,809 according to the cen- aus of Central Government em- The Minister ef FiBance (Shri T. ployees. This excludes Defence T. Krishnamaehari): (a) to (c). Yes, personnel. Sir. The question of amegding the Pensions Act, 1871 was considered during 1961 in connection with a proposal to provide for recoveries of Government dues from pensions. The proposal was, however, not pursued, since Government felt that the protection enjoyed by recipients of Gov- ! ",c;. 101'\ ~ ,,"0 ~ : l!lIT ernment pensions for so long should f,", ~ IJ& ~ ;tT i"'lT ~ Ai : not be tampered with.

'~~~ it; f.Itmr- River Roam 'q"Fmf;Ai ~ it; ~~ mmr 'fillif foro: 170 Shri D. C. Sharma: Will the f.!;cr;ft Ii'rofu ~ CI"'I\" ;T~ Qt ~ i Minister of IrrigatioD aDd Power be pleased to refer to the reply given (v) ~ ;~~ ~ i to Starred Question No. 39'3 on the 5th December, 1963 and state when ~ l!lIT ~ ~ \!iRf ;Ai ~ 'lIl"T ~ i the six river boards proposed to be ~ set up are likely to be constituted?

The Minister of Irrigation aad Power (Dr. K. L. Rao): The matter is still under consideration.

~~ (1011 ftfotfo Pfl\'I"'fm) ('fi) 'JI"roI" IiIT

Commission to pennit the States to (b) if so, the immediate steps that sanction housing projects to the ex- Government propose to take to remove tent of twice their total plan outlay them from this locality or kill them! on housing; and The Minister of Health (Dr. S1I5bIla (b) what is the reaction of the Nayar): (a) There have been a few Planning Commission to this sugges- complaints of monkey nuIsance in tion? M.Ps' fiats in South Avenue. These The MInister of Works HousInK and complaints were promptly attended to Rehabilltation (Shrl Mehr CbaDd by the N.D.M.C. and the monkeys Khanna): (a) Yes. found there were scared away by fu- ing in the air. (b) 'their reply is awaited. (b) Catching of monkeys is a spe- cialised job and in spite of all efforts Baralllll Thermal Station it has not been possible to get expert monkey catchers to do the job. lGIl- Shrl p. C. Borooah: r ing of monkeys has not been resorted 172. ~ Shrl P. R. Chakravertl: to due to the religious feelings and Shrl Onkar La! Berwa: l sentiments of the people. Will the Minister of IrrIgation ..d Power be pleased to state: Delhi Hospitalil (a) whether the power plants have started working at the Barauni Ther- 17'. Shri Sham La! Saraf: Will the mal Station: Minister of Health be pleased to state: ,(b) what is the production capa- (a) the number of indoor beds in city; the hospitals, at present run sepa- (c) whether the plant is using coal, rately by Central Government and oil or refinery sludge; and Delhi Administration in Delhi; (d) what arrangements have been (b) the number of permanent made to ensure regular cGa! supply? nurses-in-attendance in each of these hospitals;

The MInister of IrriptiOn and (e) whether the nursing service is Power (Dr. K. L. Rae): (a) and (b). adequate; and Yes. The first two Units of 15 MW (d) if not, the steps proposed to be each have been commissioned. taken in the matter? (c) The plant is usini; coal It Is, The Minister 01 Healtll. (Dr. SDShila however, designed to burn furnace oil as well. Nayar): (d) Coal is being supplied regularly (a) No. of Indoor Beds. fram the South Bihar coalfields. Central Govt. Delhi Admn. 1308 1068 (b) Central Govt. Delhi Adlll.B. Monkey Menace In M.Ps. Flats at New 499 199 Delhl.

173. Shrl Hem Raj: Will the Minis- (c) & (4). Safclarjang Proposals for 8uesn- ter of Health be pleased to state: Hospital has re- thenlng the staff (a) whether it i.t a fact that the ported that it is are under consi- monkeys have time and again become not adequate. deration. a serious menace In the M.P8. flata In The matter i. UD- the South Awnue, New Delhi; and der eamiDatlon. Written Answers FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Written Answer,

Tibbia College, Delhi (b) what is its capacity; 175. Shri Vishwa Nath Pandey: Will (c) whether proposed original site the Minister of Health be pleased to near Gangakhed has been approved state: by State Governme.t or Electricity BOllrd; and (a) whether it is a fact that Gov- ernment are considering to sanction (d) when the project work will grant to Tibbia College, Delhi for its start and when it is expected to be expansion; and completed?

(b) if so, the details thereof? The Minister of Irrigation and Power (Dr. K. L. Rao): (a) Ij.Ild (b). The Minister of Health (Dr. Sushila The Planning Commission have Nayar): (a) and (b). No. A proposal agreed in prinCiple to the establish- to give the Tibbia College a grant for ment of a 2 x 30 MW thermal sta- repairs, renovations and essential tion at Purli, about 18 miles from equipment is under consideration. Gangakhed. (c) No. Assessment Cases in PlIJIjab (d) Preliminary works on the Purli h~ are scheduled to be com- 176. Shri Daljit Singh: Will the menced during 1964-65. The station is Minister of Finance be pleased to expected to be commissioned by state: 1967-68. (a) the number of assessment cases dealt with and finalised by the in- Food Adulteration Act come-tax Officers in Punjab during 1962-63; r Shri Pottekkatt: 178. -{ Shri A. V. Raghavan: (b) the number of cases in which l Shri Kappen: the assessees had gone in appeals against the decision of the Income- Will the Minister of Health be tax Officers; and pleased to state: (c) the total amount to be re- (a) whether it is a fact that accor- covered from assessees by the depart- ding to the Prevention of Food Adul- ment in Punjab as on the 1st Janu- teration Act, four colours of coal tar ary, 1964? dyes alone are permitted to be used in food; The Minister of Finance (Shri T. (b) whether it is also a fact that T. Krishnamachari): (a) to (c). The other cololrlring matters have been infonnation is being collected and examined and found to be injurious will be laid on the Table of the House to health; and on soon as possible. (c) if so, whether Government Thermal Station at Ganpkhed have examined the foodstuffs im- 177. Shri Lonikar: Will the Min- ported from the United Kingdom Ister of Irrigation and Power be where more than a thousand varie- pleased to refer to tbe reply given to ties of coal tar dyes are permitted to Unstarred Question No. 1051 on the be used? 21st March, 1963 and state: The MlnJster of Health (Dr. Sushila (a) whether sanction has been Nayar): (a) In accordance with the accorded to the Thennal Station at Prevention of Food Adulteration Gangakhed in Parbhani District for Rules, 1955, in addition to certain completion in the current plan; coal tar. dyes permitted for use in 5.zS Written Answer. MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Written Answers 526

specified food stuffs, a number of natural colouring principles whether ~ from natural colours or produced synthetically may be used. Floods in U.P.

(b) Various other coal tar dyes 188. Shri Sinhasan Singh: Will the have been examined and found to be Minister of Irrigation and Power be ·carcenogenic in nature and injurious pleased to state: to health. (a) the steps taken to prevent the (C) The import into India of any recurrence of floods in eastern dis- article of food in contravention of tricts of U.P. with special reference the provisions of the Prevention of to rivers Gandak (Bari) , Rapti, Rabin Food Adulteration Act and the rules made thereunder, is prohibited. Gov- and Godhara; and ·ernment has no information to the (b) how long it will take to estab- effect that more than a thousand lish a grid for supply of cheap elec- varieties Of coal tar dyes ar.. per- tricity in the eastern districts at mitted in U.K. & such, the question U.P.? ~ examining the foodstuffs imported into India from U.K. particularly for -coal tar dyes does not arise. The Minister of Irrigation and Power

(11l) ;;it ~ ~ ~ ~ it (b) Steps are already ~ way for establishing transmission grid in ~ ~ IffiIT ~ 'q'Jj"\lr ~ the eastern districts of Uttar Pra- ~; desh. The proposed programme for this grid system will be progressively (iT) 'flff ~ ~T ~ ~ completed from 1965 to 1967. The existing and proposed lines are as ''~ ;~~~; m: under: (\'f) ~ m;rn ON 'flff O~ (1) Existing Lines ~ 61lT ~ ~ f if; ~ 'flff ~T

'~'~T (Ill) f('(o ('(0 ''~:T: (ii) Robertsganj-Mirzapur-132 XV ~ if (\'f) '~''~~T' double circuit-76 Km. OR WI' ;;rr W t ~ ~ 1Itift tT1ft ~ (iii) Robertsganj-Mughalsarai-lll2 'l') iJ'l(') a I ~' '{flfT 'l1lT KV double circuit-72 Km. Writtn AtU\Ders FEBRUARY 13, 196. Written An.stDers

(iv) Mughalsarai-Karamnasa-l32 able group of the population, viz., KV double circuit-3S KIn: pre-school and school children and expectant women and nursing moth- (2) Lines under construction ers. Training of villagers, members (i) Mughalsarai-Mhow-132 KV Ilf Panchayati Raj bodies and Ex- double circuit-96 K.m. tension Workers and medical and paramedical personnel in the propar (ii) Mhow-Gorakhpur-132 KV methods of production, and preser- double circuit-96 KIn. vation and in the utility of the consumption of these foods, is aft essen- (iii) h~Varanasi-l32 KV tial part of this programme. The double circuit-17 KIn. programme is assisted by UNICEF, (iv) Pipri-Ohra Thermal Obra FAO and WHO with whom an agree- Hydel-132 KV double circuit--34 KIn. ment has been signed by the Govern- ment of India on the 28th February, (v) Mirzapur-Allahabad-Kanpur 1963. 220 KV double circuit (Initial operation at 132 KV)-282 Km.

(vi) Robertsganj-Obra Hydel-132 Under the Master Plan of Opera-_ K:V double ~O Km. tions the W.H.O.IF.A.O. will, on re- quem, provide technical guidance and experts.

181. Dr. MaJwleva Pl'asad: Will the Minillter of Health be pleased to The UNICEF will provide to the- lltate: training institutions and community development blocks participating in (a) whether it is a fact that Gov- the programme as well as selected ernment have prepared a report for State and regional production centres the U.N.I.C.E.F. wherein it is mated in poultry, fisheries, horticulture, etc. that the diet of the average Indian equipment and supplies to the extent villager is "pitifully" poor in proteins of $10,000,000. This allocation is in &lJod other body-building foods; and addition to UNICEF allocation for the (b) if so, what steps Government Expanded Nutrition Projects in have taken or propose to take to Orissa ($165,000), Andhra Pradesh improve the conditions? ($217,000) and Uttar Pradellh ($285,000). The MInister of Health (Dr. Sushlla Nayar): (a) Yes. (b) As has been stated in the re- The commitments of the Govern.. port, the most important need is to ment will be to provide (apart from bring about a change in the food the equipment, supplies and funds habits. Health education of the pub- for stipends to be made available by lic is directed towards this end. UNICEF and technical services to be furnished by the F.A.O. and W.H.O.), A programme of Applied Nutrition all other equipments, supplies, per- has been taken up in the country to sonnel and staff necessary for this cover 222 selected Blocks during the programme. The Programme has Third Five Year Plan period. The since been started in Orissa, Andhra programme aims at promoting the Pradesh, Madras, Mysore, Kerala, increased local production of protec- Punjab, Madhya Pradesh, Uttar Pra- tive foods like fruits, vegetables, fish, desh, West Bengal and Himachal Pra- milk, poultry, etc., and consumption desh. The remaining States are ex- fuereof by the particularly vulner- pected to implement it in 1964-65. MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKAl Papers laid on 53 0 the Tallie 12 hrs. AMENDMENTS TO DELHI SALES TAX PAPKRS LAID ON THE TABLB RULES, NOTIFICATIONS UNDER CUS- TOMS ACT, SEA CUSTOMS ACT AND CENTRAL ExCISES AND SALT ACT, AND ElIuRGENCY INSURANCE RmIt8 (Gooll8l CENTRAL BOARDS OF REvENUE AcT (FOURTH AMENDMENT) ScHEME, EMERGENCY RIsKS (FACTORm» IN- The Minister of Planning (Shri B. R. SURANCE (FOURTH AMENDMENT) Bhagat): I beg to relay on the Table SCHEME, COMPULSORY DEPOSIT (.IN- a copy of Notification No. F.4(45) /63- COME-TAX pAYERS) AMENDMENT Fin(E) published in Delhi Gazette SCHEME AND ANNUAL REPoRT OF dated the 7th November, 1963 making LIC AND AUDITED ACCOUNTs THERE- certain further amendments to the OF Delhi Sales Tax Rules, 1961, under The Minister of Finanee (Shri T. T. sub-section (4) of section 26 of the KrishBamachari): r beg to lay on the Bengal Finance (Sales Tax) Act, 1941, Table a copy of the following papers: as in force in the Union Territory of Delhi. [Placed in LibraT1/. See No. (1) The Emergency Risks (Goods) LT-2091/63J. Insurance (Fourth Amend- ment) Scheme, 1963 published I beg to lay on the Table: in Notitlcation No. S.O. lI601 (i) a copy each of the following dated the 28th December, 1963, Notifications under section 159 under sub-section (6) of sec- of the Customs Act, 1962:- tion 5 of the Emergency Risks (a) G.S.R. No. 1816 dated the (Goods) Insurance Act, 1962. 23rd November, 1963. ~ The EmeTgency Risks (Fac- (b) G.S.R. No. 1891, dated the taries) Insurance (Fourth 14th December, 1963. Amendment) Scheme, 1963 (e) G.S.R. No. 1892 dated the published in Notification No. 14th December, 1963. SO. 3602 dated the 28th De- cember, 1953, under sub-sec- (d). G.S.R. No. 1916 dated the 11th December, 1963. tion (7) of section 3 of the Emergency Risks (Factories) (e) G.S.R. No. 1985 dated the Insurance Act, 1962. [Placed 28th December, 1963. in LibraT1/. See No. LT-2262/ (f) G.S.R. No. 1986 dated the 28th December, 1963. (3) The Compulsory Depooit (In- come-tax Payers) Amend- (g) G.S.R. No. 1990 dated the ment Scheme, 1964 published 31st December, 1963. in Notification No. G.S.R. 78 (h) G.S.R. No. 1991 dated the d-ated the 10th January, 1964 31st December, 1963. under section 16 of the Com- (i) G.S.R. No. 9 dated the 4th pulsory Deposit Scheme Act, January, 1964. 1963. [Placed in LibraT1/. See (j) S.O. No. 12 dated the 4th No. LT-2263/64]. January, 1964. (4) Annual Report of the Life In- (k) G.S.R. No. lIO dated the 1st surance Corporation of India January, 1964. for the period 1st January, [Placed in LibraT1/. See No. LT- 1962 to 31st March, 1963 along 2265/64J. with the Audited Accounts (iI) a copy eaeh of the following undeT section 29 of the Life Notificat'ons under section Insurance Corporation Act, 159 of the Customs Act, 1962 1956. [Placed [n Library. See and section 38 of the Central No. LT-2264/84] Excise and Salt Act, 1944. Papers laid on FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Motion re: Communal 532 the Table d ·sturbances in East Pakistan and West Bengal rShri B. R. Bhagat] dated the 1st January, 1964, making further amendments under section 296 of the In- to the Customs and Central come tax Act, 1961. [Placed Excise Duties Export Draw- in Library. See No. LT-2269/ back (General) Rules, 1960: 64]. (I) G.S.R. No. 1896 dated the 14th December, 1963. 1203 hrs. (11) G.S.R. No. 1959 dated MOTION RE: COMMUNAL DISTUR- the 28th December, 1963. BANCES IN EAST PAKISTAN AND WEST ~ "- [Placed in Library, See No. LT- 2266/64]. Mr. Speaker: Further consideration (iii) a copy of the Central Board of of the following motion moved by Shri Excise and Customs (Regula- Nanda on the 11th February 1964, tion of Transaction of Busi- namely:- ness) Rules, 1964 published "That the situation arising out in Notification No. G.S.R. of the communal disturbances in 34 dated the 1st January, 1964. East Pakistan resulting in heavy under section 4 of the Central loss Of life and property of the Boards of Revenue Act, 1963. members of minority community [Placed in Library, See No. LT- and their influx to India and con- 2267/64]. sequential disturbances in Wes1 Bengal, be taken into considera- NOTIFICATIONS UNDER CENTRAL BOARDS tion". OF REVENUE ACT, WEALTH TAX AcT along with the substitute motions AND INCOME-TAX ACT moved thereon. The Deputy Minister in the Ministry The hon. Minister may continue ef Finance (Shrimati Tarkeshwari his speech. SiDlla): I beg to lay on the Table a COpy each of the following Notifica- The Minister of Bome Mairs (Shri tions:- Nanda): I shall resume the thread my (i) The Central Board of Direct of my speech. I may reiterate deep Taxes (Regulation Of Transac- realisation of the grav'ty of the situation of Business) Rules, 1964 tion and the issues which emerge from publ'shed in Notification No. it. May I confess, as I said last even- G.S.R. 31 dated the 1st Jan- ing, that I feel a sense Of awe-l uary, 1964, under section 4 of feel awed-by the immensity of the the Central Boards Of Revenue problems, their urgency also and Act, 1964. [Placed in Library. their baffling character? There are See No. LT-2268/64]. many questions, inter-related, c0mP- lex questions, and I believe that in (ii) The Wealth-tax (Exemption those questions is wrapped in con.- of Heirloom Jewellery of s:derable measure the destiny of this Rulers) Amendment Rules country. This tangled skein has to 1964 published in Notification be Imravelled some day, I hope it No. G.S.R. 38 dated the 1st will be soon. On how it is done will, January, 1964, under sub-sec- I believe. rest to a cons'derable extent, tion (4) of sect'on 46 of the the future of Ind;a, and to an extent Wealth Tax Act, 1957. Wlac.ed also the course of world events. in Library. See No. LT-2269/ Therefore when we deal with these 64]. ~ something about them (iii) The Income-tax (Amend- make our suggestions, take a parti- ment) Rules, 1964 published cular linE!--we have to be aware of in Notification No. S.O. 107 this, that the course we take will 533 Motion re: MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKAI Comm_' dinu,.b- 534 rmces m Ea.t PakiBt4ft and West Bmgal deeply affect our position, extemal- tliat. And whatever the numben, Iy, and intemally-GUr economt.e there shoUld not be any handicap far progress. our political structure, all a minority. 'l'he!-efore, provisions thl!S(' things. have been made and sought to be made that weaker sections will be 1 made a statement yesterday. given speeial consideration. So, it is not question of treating them di1fer- In that statement I have given a a ently in a way which will be to their VL'1j' frank. straight presentation of prejudice.. Their rights, their ;privi- the facts relating to the situation I leges, are all the same, culturally, 'am conscious of the fact that the economically, politically, in every way. speeches which were made, by and They are indistinguishable :from the large. for the most part, were also rest of the mass of the nation. That is based on an objective view of the our stand, and we want to maintain facts of the situation and their imp-; that. lications. It was clear that the Members realiSed also that these things were a matter of deep nation- I am aware of the fact-that there ;:1 concern. We take these matters in has been religious strife in this coun- lhat sense. I am glad that without try, and th;s virus has been handed any exception.· all the Members of down to us from the past. All of us 111e House shared that concern. know that recently another thing happened, naJJM!ly the partition, which V pry large national interests are has left its scars. It cannot be effaced invo'ved. and therefore no lesser in- compl!:tely immediately, and the con- terert should be allowed to creep in, sequences are still haunting us, but on to ('em" ;n the way, and I feel again our "ic:e there i3 the greatest effort, ,md ,.tate mv appreciation of the endeavour, to see that all that taint at ('OUMSe with a heavy be, in any sense, in the remotest 537 Motion re: MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Communal distuTb- 538 ances in East Pakistan and West Bengal sense, any kind of justification for trouble started in Khulna and Jessore. any tension being created in our coun- It was not spontaneous. It was not as try which might have any consequen- if there was some local cause, some- ces to the detriment of the minority thing which arose there inside that community in India. They said that area. It was not that. It was gene- that. rated; all the trouble in that part of Then the question was raised about East Pakistan was induced by respon- the J'an Sangh in the meeting which I sible people in Pakistan. The osten- had h~h with all the party re- sible cause was some kind of a pro- presentatives the next day. The pre- test being staged there in relat;on to vioUs meeting was on the same night the Hazratbar incident. The Hazrat- when we reached there. It is true bal incident till that day had not led that the representative of the Jan to any kind of communal discord in Sangh said-he complained against Jammu and K"'''hmir. There was ~''h did I say that the life of complete cO'mmunal amity and har- every single Muslim is sacred and mony in Jammu and Kashmir. If there we will all go out to protect them, had to be any communal discord, it and why I did not say Hindus also?" should have been there. but it was not Certainly, every citizen . . . there. yet, the leaders of Poakistan and the Peess in Pakistan exploited Shri Bade (Khargone): Why not that in a blatant fashion for the pur- every ci tizen be protected? pose of inflaming communal passions. Shri Nanda: I said "that also. I ex- 1 do not under-rate the inteJligence plained to him. It was part of what of the leaders of Pakistan. When the, I had saia. It was a part that was were making those speecbes and thei'r repeated. I mentioned that it is the Press was writing all these glaring entire responsibility of every member headlines, was it that they did not of the community, of every person in know what the consequences would this country. But I referred special- be? ly again to the Muslims because that Shri S. M. Banerjee (Kanpur): Our was the context there. Then I eX- Government kept mum. plained that, and that was very clear to all those people present there. There Shri Nanda: l may not go further was no kind of misgiving or misunder- and say that all this was deliberately standing about that. done by them. It was there and the consequences were inevitable in the I may also Pay my thanks to the situation in which particularly the members of the Jan Sangh who were present. They had thought of a har- people are living in East Pakistan, tal the next day or later but they where the minorities are exPosed to withdrew that. ' risk from day to day. Was it that there was an ulterior design in all So, this is our approach. I have that? Maybe. This was what the mentioned that. This is embodied Press and the leaders there did. also in that document or agreement whiCh is styled as the Nehru-Liaqat But when the trouble started later on as a consequence of that in West Pact. On our side we are carrying it out completely and fully. It is not Bengal; what did we ~ How was our Press behaving? They were re- being carried out on the other side. It que,ted to take a sober Ene is being violated day after day. about both the happenings about Let Us see what hoas happened in West Bengal and Calcutta and West Bengal. Did anything happen also about what was happening in West Bengal on the 3rd January? in East Pakistan, and give un- It was all quite peaceful there; ab- varnished accounts. They accepted solute peace, reigned in that State and the advice. So far as the facts about in that citr, but on 3rd January Calcutta and West Bengal are con- 539 Motion reo FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Communal disturbances 540 in East Pakistan and West Bengal [Shri Nanda] Well, at any rate, I am glad that cerned, they were given in a bald fas- we have succeeded in keeping our hion; the truth of :t was there. There country calm and restrained. No was no effort to mnumise it. The trouble has arisen here. That is the figures of casual ties were also given; difference between Pakistan and usually they are not given. Figures India. Some han. Member there said of casualties---how many Muslims and that some deaths have taken place how ''~ ~ also givpn here and some deaths have taken place So far as what was happening in there. But in respect of deaths also East Pakistan was concerned, the there ;s no comparison. The figures advice was to See tJlat it does not have been mounting up there. Of immediately have any kind of pro- course, even the loss of a single life vocative effect. There is no attempt is very bad, it caUSes agony and to suppress anything. But sometimes distress. But you have to compare it happens that when you break a th" figures also. news. with human beings. it is some- timps better not to do that in that sud- den way. because immediately the effect may be very bad. So. the whole The ma:n thing is the approach, effort wa' that it might not create the attitUde in Pakistan. Why is it jmmediate consequences of an un- that the trouble spread frO'ffi h~ toward nntc;re. The idea was that and Jessore to Dacca and Narayan- headings. photographs and pictures ganj and then into the interior? ,hould not be of a provoeat;ve kind. We did not allow it to spread. That Most of the papers abided by that is where the test romes. T~ advke; some possibly did not do it. can start. disturbances can start and something may be happening or simmering underground which Wf' What did Pakistan do? It chose may not be able to deal with -at once. this .moment to /!o to the Security But the question is. what happens Council. It was not content with afterwards. It takes twO or tllree creat;ng trouble here in East Paki:<- days to see that theSe troubles are tan and therefore in Calcutta. It quenched. But there it is allowed to went further. Our main insistence spread. The other difference is in was just this: There may have what the leaders do. What do our been occasions in the past for going leaders do? What does our Govern- to the Security Council and there ment dO? What do the representat- may be occasions in future also. iVe!; of public op'nion do? How do But th;s was not the t.ime go to they behave? What happens there? there. because if all that is happen- That is the contrast. Therefore, let ing in East Pakistan we bring it not any kind Of wrong impression be out-it would be risky. We made created that there are communal all the arrangements throughout the troubles here also and these are to be country. We took precautions in all equated with the troubles there. They parts of the country. We alerted cannot be equated. the Stales ann the whoJe organ;sa- tion of H

our face agains L their sufferings the .. ~ ~~ '~;; I ~ ~ ~C torture of their bodies and apirii and all that they are undergoing there. We will explain what it means. It cannot do that. Therefore, instinct- means: No room to stay, no "utiet jyely our hearts tum to them and it for escape. N ow that is tileir posi- is a question of the hwnan impulse. tion and to the extent it is possible We want to do our best. We cannot for us to enable them to come away, help doing that. But there it is. We when they find that they are in com- want to giVe them whatever succour plete peril, in an extreme .tate of in- We might like to send .them. We are security, we have to see that they can faced with the situation that there is come across. And this is what has 'compassion'. That is a word which been done, what we have tried to do. aeparates us from them; they are on Mr. Chatterjee, representin!: a num- the other side of the ba"rier and we ber of parties, who met. Jne anrt the Ilear their cries for help. But our Chief Min,.;tel· oi West Eenga; in Cal- hands cannot reach there. What else cutta with the resolution, made this can we do? That is the question. repr('sentation. They said, "We know There is the human obligation. Some- that it i'l not possible, it is not propel'. body has taken objection to the word it is not feasible to put forward the compassion'. That is a word which idea of h~ of population." The ¥' has been used in the Nehru-Liaquat said that. It was ver.v reas:-;uring to Ali Pact. The human obligation is learn from thpm that the exchange of there. We emphasise the responsibi- populatioz idea is ~ .. thing which i:;. lity of Pakistan to look after their unthinkable with all the h~ 00"- protection, relief and rehabilitation sequences of it. Thev said, "Let us and it is fOr them to take back those ~ it ~ They ;;~ people who have been affected and that. It was very good. Then, what who are in camps to their homes and they said was, "W" may n()t ask f()r give them relief and rehabilitation. thnt. But can't we ask for somPlhinr: We welcome that. We will be very which you can do? That is. there are hapPy if they do that. If they do not those migration restrictions. Why not do that, if they are not able to give relax them?". We said, "We will try them the new start, if they do not to ease the conditions." And then we feel secure, if they find it impossible have tried to do that. But let me again to breathe the air of security in their emphasise this one fact that although country and they feel that they must they will come and we will give them leave it, then we cannot bar their the certificates and they will enter oUI" way. We have no heart to tell them, country-we will provide for reliet "You go on staying there and be but- and rehabilitation also-it is not a chered." We cannot say that. We cheering prospect for them who c!)me have no heart to say that. We cannot from there. It is not we can easily just see that they are perishing in th .. reproduce the conditions in which they ftames of communal fire and let them live ~h the environment in which perish. No. It will be inhuman to do they have been living there. It is 80. uprooting and. therefore, nobody would like to come and nobody would Then, there were certain provisions like them just to take it Iightlv in the Nehru-Liaquat Ali Pact. How and come because here, in spite of to deal with the situation? Somehow an that we can do, all that we can they are not in operation now because provide, things will be hard and it is that country does not respect those not going to be easy to settle down provisions at all. with normal life. Therefore, when S49 Motio" re: MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Communal disturb- 550' .nees in E4st Pakistan and West Bengal the question is raised by Pakistan that. se,'ere ordeals and hardships; neither we are facilitating their entry :m(1 food nor medicine ncr any kind of inviting them. how can we invite other need. are being provided. them, what can We do to invite them. Therefore. there is nothing for them the millions of people to come ;~ either to stay in camps or to go back. It is not possible. But it is only those That was the situation there. Now, who find it impossible to stay ther". we have learnt that income-tax clear- We have not got much land which can ance certificates and some municipal be given to them. There is the diffi- certifica les are required from those culty in finding more land for set!' ing coming at the border. What have new persons In the country. But they got? Toley have left everything. whatever we have, we will share witlt and still income-tax ciE:arance certi- them. There is no escape from that. ficates ate required from them. That That is what we are trying to (10 ana may be a normal obligation, but here that is what the Chief Ministers of when the people are fieeing because various States who came agreed to do. of insecurity. why is this being done? They also fully entered Into the spirit of the situation and they tried to I said th"t so far as migration help ... certificates are C"Oncerned, h~' would Shr; P. R. Patel (Patan): Why apply to h~ new categories plus the don't you ask Pakistan for more land old. The question was raised: 'You roc these people? have said about girls of marriageable age. But why not women?' Here it is: 'Unattached women and widows Shri NaIlda: We can also g0 further with no livelihood in Pakistan'. That and try to secure land from other is also one of the categories. .areas ?lso. Shri Tridib Kwnar Chaudhuri Smi Tyagi: After all, they are (Berhampur): The hon. Minister ha. Pakistan citizens. They are com- allowed girls of marriageable age to ing here. We have given them ceme away. But what about young protedion. Why can't we ask the ~ women? He is preventing ~ Gllvernlneht to give us SOl1le theIn. If a woman is married. she is ",,\ra land for them? not allowed to come. Shri Nanda: The hon. Member can Shri ;\Ianda: If they come as part make that suggestion to Pakistan. I of a family, that is one thing. If there cannot is a woman who has lost her husband Then, about the question of libera- she can also come. So, both ways. it liiling the migration restrictions, there has been provided for. were some points made that it was not enough. I would like to state Shrimati Renuka Ray (Maida): But that when you take the earlier relaxa- why this categorisation? tions made, h~ various categories Smi Badruddaja (Murshidabad): which had been made earlier for the In all humility. may I request the purpose of granting of migration Home Minister to relate something of certificates and the new relaxations the terrible happenings which have that we add to them. then practically affected the lives, liberty, honour and all the needs of the situation are met properties of West Bengal Muslims? It is not because they are not able to He has referred to the tortures and obtain migration certificates that the killings on the other side. But I may trouble arises for them. It is because request him to make some reference of some harassments that are still to the terrible suiferings that have there. They are being subjected to taken place in West Bengal. harassments. They are not allowing them to stay there. Even in the Sbri Tyacl: They have killed a few camps they have been subjected to Hindus a18o. :SSI Motion re: FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Communal dlstuTbances SS2 in East Pakistan and West Benga! Sbrimati Renu Chakravartty people who have corne as refugees to (Barrackpore): Suppose the entire our country, because of insecurity family is not able to come over there, without migration certificates. because of various reasons. Why is it not possible for the married women Shri Nanda: May I proceed and of that family to be given migration answer this as well as the other ques- certificates so that they can come tions? The larger proportion of those over? who· have entered India from East Pakistan, I believe, so far as West Sbri Nanda: There is another clause Bengal is concerned, consists of those 'where the Deputy High Commissioner who have come without any migra- has got discretion, and such cases tion papers, and we have accepted could be covered under that clause. them, and we are going to accept them, certificate or no certificate. Sbrimati Renuka Ray: Why should there be any clauses? Why should it . not be possible for everyone to come Shri Swell (Assam-Autonomous over? Why should there be clauses Districts): About 50,000 tribal refugees like this? And why should there be have come to Garo Hills. What about separate categories? those peop1e?

Mr. Speaker: Because everything Mr. Speaker: The hon. Minister is . cannot be written in one clause, there- not giving way. So, no hon. Member .fore. there are two clauses. should try to interrupt now.

Sbrimati Renuka Ray: Why these Shri Swell: The whole thing has clauses? The migration certificates been related only about West Bengal. should be open to all. What about those in the Garo Hilla area? Shri Tridib Kumar Chaudburi: 'would like to know whether Govern- Mr. Speaker: Order, order. The ment would be prep1red to sit with hon. Minister is not giving way. So, .all the West Bengal Members and see no Member h~ interrupt him. if they can revise the migration conditions, after the debate is over. They Shri Nanda: I have tried to meet cannot do it offhand. But will the both the needs of the situation, so far hon. Minister be prepared to sit with as Government are concerned. If all the West Bengal members, irres- there is any aspect which requires any pective of party affiliations, and seek further consideration, certainly we can their suggestions and consider if the meet and discuss it. I believe the migration conditions could be revised? things as they are, make full provision for all contingencies. If there is Shri Atulya Gbosb (Asanso!): Why anything more, we can discuss it. So, only West Bengal Members? This has I shall leave it at that. There are nothing to do with West Bengal. about 46,000 people who have entered Something is happening in East Assam .... Pakistan, and the Government of India have to tackle it. It has nothing to do with West Bengal only. West Shri Swell: 50,000 people, and more Bengal wiil share its responsibility are coming every day. with other States. Shri Nanda: And more are coming Shri Hem Barua: The hon. Minister every day. Although we have no has offered certain facilities to dearth of man-power here, certainly, refugees corning from East Pakistan we have to prepare to receive these with migration certificates. I am just others also. Also, on this side, in interested in knowing whether he is West Bengal, I think the number haa gcing to allow facilities to those reql'hed 22,000 or so. :553 Motion re: MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Communal disturb- 554 ances in East Pakistan and West Bengal Now, this is what we can do on our namely, take things to the UNO. We Sldt': we can make arrangements for have already got something at the the·ir relief, we can receive them and UNO. It is said, take things to the m

Shri Harl Vishnu Kamath: But Shri Nath Pai: May we know what your 'proceeding' is weak. (jw orders are when news comes of riets in Bengal? ... 8hri Nanda: There is one more thing which I would stress at the end, Mr. Speaker: The hon. Member may and that is that we shall be concre- resume his seat. The han. Minister tely assisted in successfully perform- i" not giving way. ing that duty and carrying out that task if in this country we maintain total peace and total tranquillity. Shri Nath Pai: This is very important I think the han. Minister is ~ way. Shrl Tyag:i: Beware of your British friends; the British power will go against you. Mr. Speaker: He is not.

Shri Nanda: If we are able to de- Shri Nanda: I am standing. So, how monstrate that whatever happens am I giving way? The han. Member there, on our side, there is complete may ask his question afterwards. I and full determination to do our part, also feel some kind of a sense of un- and that irrespective of any provoca- easiness about the time that is being tion we will maintain peace, then our taken by me, becaUSe you have got voice will be heard very much better other work also on the Order Paper. than it could otherwise be. Therefore, that is the positive thing that we shall There 'are just one or two points create the conditions here which will enable us to raise our voice every- about the future. Apart from this, how do we tackle and solve this problem? where in the world. Everybody thought that enough was not being done on that score. I looked An hon. Member wanted me to tell expectantly, anxiously and eagerly him what happened to the Muslims for some kind of a very positive and there. We have not hidden any fact. constructive suggestion but after We have not hidden their sufferings. having scanned all the things that Whatever happened in West Bengal came out, I found that they reduced was in the papers. And more than themselves to just one suggestion, anybody else, the West Bengal Chief 555 Motion re: FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Communal di8turbances 5)6 in East Pakistan and West Bengal [Shri Nandal Shri Surendranath DWivedy: It ~ Minister was giving out every day not the Muslim community-they be- everything that happened there, and haved very nicely-but it is the PaJ[ all the occurrences there, agents,

Shri BadruddDja: There have been Shri Nanda: They may have " finger in every ugly pie. That is not more harrowing tales, There have been more terrIble sufferings, There any defence of that statement. But I am talking of the Muslims. Actually have been more ~ developments. The press has suppressed them. The when things were, taking place, some press has poisoned the atmosphere. of them possibly may have become aggressive .. Papers like the Ananda Bazar Patrika, Jugantar and others have Shri Heon Barua: They put up a ~ those things. They have pitohed battle. maXimISed the sufferings there and minimised the sufferings of the West Shri Nanda: The genesis of the Bengal Muslims who have been tor- trouble was not that. It was not done tured with every refinement of crue- by the Muslims there. lty. The han. Member mentioned the Mr, Speaker: Order, order. I have press, the A nand a Bazar Patrika, asked other hon. Members not to in- Jugantal' and Basumati. I have my terrupt the han. Minister and certain- own grouse against these papers. I ly, the han, Membel" is 'also included went there at the instance of the among them. Chief Minister. Then they sta,'! say- ~ th::tt \Jle have gone there to take Shri Badrudduja: I wanted only a over Calcutta. We have seen all kinds clarification. ef things. SometIme., I was also asked, Shri Nanda: Everything that was why not take these newspapers to known to us was recorded by us and task, why not do something about them' Well, we have democratic has been made known. It may be traditions in which we function. We that there may be an isolated occur- renr.e somewhere which might not give the fullest latitude to the press. We give them advice. We make ap- have come to our notice. peals to them. But sometimes if it becomes necessary, and some national I would then ask the han. Members interest is endangered, then something to look at the efforts that are being may be done about them also, But made for the relief and rehabilitation we give them the fullest latitude, as ?f ~ persons. How much money far as possible, They said I had gone IS bemg spent on relief both in rural there in order to suppress the Gov- areas and in Calcutta? Every possi- ernment of West Bengal and take ble consideration is being given. I over. These are all fantastic things can say this with authority that every- whlich were being spread there, They thing possible is being done. had absolutely no meaning at all. 13.00 hrs. I would not like to take more time. I must make one thing clear, There I am very greateful to you and the was some insinuation that some Mus- HOUSe for affording me an opportu- lims were responsible for the occur- nity and privilege to explain all the .rences in West Bengal. facts of the situation and the impli- cations, An Hon, Member: Yes. Shri Hari VisbDu ~h: On a Shrl Nuda: It is not so. small point of clarification, Motion re: MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Comml.l.l14! disturb- 558 ances in East Pakistan and West Bengal Mr. Speaker: I will begin from Mr. Speaker: He is making a speech. • one side. Questions should be only by way of clari1lcation. I would not Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: May allow any spellch. Shri S. M. Baner- request the hon. Minister to throw jee. light On an obscure point? When the situation was so serious in Cal- Shrl S. M. Banerjee: I will not cutta, why was it that neither the make any speech. Why should you Minister of State nor a senior officer think that I am always wrong? of the Hom" Ministry was sent out there as a representative of the Cent- Yesterday. the hon. Minister was ra] Government---.as it was their duty pressed by many Members to anno- to do-but the Chairman of the State um>e the names of those who were Trading Corporation was left in charge apprehended in connection with the Of the situation? theft of the sacred relic from the Hazratbal shrine. I want to know Shri Hem Barua: Is it a fact that why he does not mention the names. some of the Muslims in Calcutta put up a pitched battle, which they ought Mr. Speaker: That is not relevant to have done-it is good that they here. did it because that is a demonstration of the democratic character of our Shri S. M. Banerjee: Then what is State . . . relevant? The whole trouble started because of the theft. Mr. Speaker: I cannot allow any speech or comment. If he has a Mr. Speaker: I haw said it is not short question. he may put it. l't'levant here. On a different occasion dur;ng the day. he can ask that Shri Hem Barua: My question ill question. whether they put up a pitched battle. Shri Sw'elI: Apropos of reports of Shri Nath Pai: The han. Minister firing on the evacuees entering Garo w,,. talking about Iiberalisation of Hills and reports of deaths, may I t ht· certificates to be given to intend- know whether' any instruction has ing refugees from East Pakistan. May been given to the border security I know what arc the parmanent force to give protection to these orders to the Indian border posts? evacuees entering India when they When news comes from East Pakistan were fired upon by Pakistan person- that that State is once again engulfed nel? in a flame of communal frenzy. arp the orders to these posts to insist on Shri Hem Barua: Killing children these certificates or are there to be no and injuring women. requirement of certificates being pro- ' in? What is the 'true position. ~~~~;~ if iliff ~ 1 ~ ~ m- ~ ~~ Also ... 00 ~;;: ~' ~ ~ Mr. Speaker: Only one question. -q.' ~~ "'r&m ~ ~ f'li ~ if pr I ~ ~ ~ qr

Those in favour may say "Aye". Mr. Speaker: One thing that I might iust suggest to the House is that now Some Hon. Mlembers: Aye. that We have been here for two years working on this, if the machine fails, Mr. Speaker: Those against may of course that should be corrected, say "No". but if it is still a failure on our part. the statement of the Member would Some Hon. Members: No. be recorded that it has not been cor- Mr. Speaker: The Noes have it. rectly recorded, but in the announcement of the result, I would not take Sbri Hari Vishnu Kamath: The Ayes it into account unless the result is .ave it. going to be affected. Motion re: FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Communal diatuTblinces 564' in EIISt Pakistan and West Bengal Shri Bari Vishnu Kamath· You I have to add one to the Ayes fDr have done that before. . Shri Yajinifl It has been ascertained Shri YaJnik: I voted for "Aye", yet that there was one "No" there with- jt appears here as abstention. out any Member, and one has to be deducted from the Noes. ....1 ~T'' '~ : f.Rr '~T i '11: ~' o;r" ,{r i I Ayes: 35; Noes: 194, i!r.rTf.F; ~ 'h~ '~

AYES h'~ Shri Joachim Gupta, Shri KIshi Ram Shastri, Shri PraKas'b Vir hlvarc!> Shri lha, Shri Yogendra Singh, Dr. B. N. Bade, Shri Kamath, Shri Hari Vishau Singh, Sbri Y. D. Barua. Shri Hem Kapur Singh, Shri Singnvi Dr. L. M. Berwa. Shri Dokar Lal Kohor, Shri Trivem. Sbri U. M. Bbawani, Shri Lakhmu Krishnapa1 Singh, Shri Utiya, Shri Be,I. Sbri P. H. Mate. Shri Verma, Sbri S. L. Chatterjee, Shri H. P. Mohan Swarup, Shri Vijaya Rsic, Sbrimati Chatterjee. Shri N. C. Nath Pai, Shri Vilhram Phsed. &hri Chaudhufl, Sltri 1"ridib Kumar Pattnllyak, Shti Kilhen Vadav, Shri Ram Se.,oIk DwivcJy. Shri Surendnnath Range, Shti Vainik. Shri Gokaran Prasad. 5hri Reddy, Shri Narasimha Yupal 8in,h, Shri

NOES Abdul Wahid, Shri T. Challar Sin.cb. Sbti Hem Raj Shri Achal Singh, Shri Ch~ Sbri S. N. Iqbal Singh, Shri Acbutban, Sbr i Chaudhuri. Shri O. S. I_dbav, Shri Tullhida, Akkamma Devi. Shrimati Chaudhuri. Shri Sichindra Jamunadevi, Shrimati Anjanappa, Sh:ri Cbavda. Shrimati lo.hi. Sbri A. C. A'l':ad, Sbri Bbagwat J ha Daljit Singh. Shri JOIbi, Shrimati Subbadn Bat Krishna Singh, Shri 0 ... Or. M. M. JJOtiebi, Sbri J. P. Barkataki Shrimati Renuka Du, Shri H. K. Kamble, Sbri Bazupal. Shri P. L. OIl, Sbri N. T. ~ ..,Sbri Basappa, Shri , Du. Shri Sudhansu KarutNrumaD. Shri lial'ftmatari. Shri Oasapp •• 8hri Kayel, Shri P. N. liaswant. Shri DaSl, Shri G. Kedaria. Shri C. M. Bcsra, Shri Deshmukh, Shri Sbivaji Rao S. Kbadilkar, Shri Bhagat. Shrj B. R. De" Sbri S. K, Khan, Dr. 1-'. N. IlhaDja Deo, Shra L. S. Ohlon,8hri Khan, Shri Oallllo Ali Bhatkar. Shri Dhuleshwar Meena, Sbri Khan, Shri Shahnawaz Bi, I.Shri J.8.S. DiRbe, Shri Khanna. Shri Mehr Ch ... : Borooah. Shri P.C. Dinuh Si ngh. Shri Kindar Lal, Shri Brajeshwar Prasad Shri Dubry, Shn h. G. Koujalsi, Shri H. V. Brii Baf.i Lat, Shri Elavaperumal. Shri Kripa Shankar. Shri Cbakravcrti, Shri P. R. Ganal'ati R .. m. Shn Krishn.a. Shri M. R. Chan.:1a, Shrimati Jyotlna Gandhi. Shri V. II. Krisbnamacbari. Shri T. T. L"bandrabhan SiDSh, Shri Ghosh, Shri Atu.1ya Kurecl. Sbri B. N. Cba.drauithar. Shrimati Hajamavil, Shra Lakhao n .., Sbri ChaqdJlki, Shri Hansda. Sl)ri SuhC'dh l.akebmihnttunnma, 5I1fi ••ti 565 Motion re: MAGHA 24. 1885 (SAKA) Communal disturbances in East Pakistan and West Bengal Lalit Sen, Shri Pand • Shri Samanta. Sbri S. C. La.kar. Sbri N. R. Pandey, Shri R. S. Samnani. shri Lall:mi Bai, Shrimati Pandey. Sbrl Vilhwa Nath Sarma. shri A. T. Mahadeo Prasad, Shri Panna Lal, Shri Sstyabhama Devi, Shrimati Mahadeva Prasad, Dr. Paramaaivan. slui Sen, Shri P. G. Mahtab, Shei Patel. Shri N. N. Shakuntala Devi, Shrjmati Mahllbi. Dr. Sarciini Patcl. 5hri P. R. Shankaraiya, Shri Maimoona Sultan, Shrimati Patel. Shri Rajeshwar Sharma. Sbri A. P. Malaichami, Shri Patil, Shri S. B. Sharma. Sbri D. C. Mallick. Shri Rama Chandra Pati]. Sbri T. A. Shaahi Ranlan. Sbri Manaen, Shri Patnaik, 8hri B. C. Shastri. Shri La! Bahadur MandaI, S;U'i Yamuna Prasad Pattabhi Raman. 8hri C. R. Shinde. Sbr; Maniyangadan, 8hri Pillai, Shri Nattai. Shree Narayan D8s, Shri Mantri, 5hri Prabhakar. Shri Naval Shukla, Shri Vidya Cbar.&..n Muandi. Shri Pretap Singh. Shri Shyamlt.umari Devi, ShrimIt Malutiy. Din, Shri Raghunath Singh. Shri Siddananappa, Shri Matchara;u, Shri &ai, Shrimati Sabodrabai Sidbeahwar Prasad, Shri Mehdi, 5hti S. A. Rala. Sbri C. R. Singh. Sbri R. P. Mehtotra, Shei Bra' Bibari Rajaram, Shri Singha. Shri G. K. Mehta, Shri J. R. RaJdeo Singh, Shri Sinha, Shri Satya Narayan Men&i, Shri Gopal Dau Raiu, Dr. D. S. Sinha. Sbrimai Tarkelhwari Minimata, 8mi Raju, Shri D. n. Sinhasan Singh, Shri Mishr., Shri Bibhuti Ram S.ewak. S~: Sivapp:ra.gha'SaD, Sbri K. Mohiuddin. 5hri Ram Singh, Sh:i Sonavane, Shri Mohsin. Shri Ram. Subhag Singh, Dr. Subramaniam. Shri C. Morarka, Sbri Ramaswamy. 8hri S. V. Sumat Prasad. Shri More, Shri K. L. Ramdhani Du, 8bri Swuan Singh, Shri Mukerjee. Shrimati Sharda Rane, Shri Tiwary, Shi D. N. Mudi Manohar, Shri Rao, Dr, K. L. Tiwary, Shri R. S. Murthy, Shri B. S. Rao, Sbri Krilhnamoorthy Tyagi, Shri Musafir. Shri G. S. Rao, Shri Muthyal Uikey, Shri M uthiah. Shri Rao, Shri RAmeshwar Upadhyaya. Shri Shin Dutt Muzaffar Husain, Shri Rawandale. Shri Valvi. Sbri Naid'u. Shei V. G. Varma, Shri Ravindra Ray, Shrim.ati Renuka NalIakoya, Shri Verma, Shri Balgovind Nanda, Shri Reddi. IJ. Gopala Virbhadra Singh, Shri Nayak, Shrt Mohan Reddin. 8hri Vyaa, Shri Re.dhelal Nayar, Dr. Sushila Wadiwa, Shri Reddy. Shrimati Yuhoda Nigam, Shrimati Savitri Yadab, Shri N. P. NiranJan Lat, Shri Roy, Shri Bi'Jhwaoarb Yadava, Shri B. P. Du, Shri Saha, Dr. S. K. Paliwal. Shri Saigal. Shri A. S • ~; qa-;rmi ~~: .:n ~ QT ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ fnr "l'mrr ~';~ ~~ ~~ I ~~~ if ~ ~ f.!t1: >;J'TifT Sffi!T'I" ~ 'IT I -:nr ~ ~ ~T ll'lWf ~ ~ ~ 'T~~ ;J'TifT ~ ~ 'f; '~'' ...,. ~ ~ 'fiT 5ffiIR m ;;r;r l 'fi) '$fi ;;ror 1 '*" om: it ~ ~' ~ 'fi"{ 'Ifrof The Lok Sabha divided: Ayes 20; ~ '};ii ;(1m;r '*" ~ Noes 197.

Division No. :11 13.21 brs. AYES Alvares, Shri Kapur Singh, Sbri Reddy, Shri Narasim,p Bama, Shri Hem Kobor. Shri Shastri, Sbri Prak.ab Vir Bheel, Shri P. H. Krishnapal Sin.h, Shri Sigbvi, Dr. L. M. Dwivedy. 5hri Surendtauath Mate, Sbri Verma, Shri S. L. Gokaran Prasad, Shri Mohan Swarup, Slui Vishram Prua4. Sh.ri Jha, Sbri Y ..ondr. Nath Pai, Shri Y.daY. Shri Ram Scwak. Kamath. Shri Hari VishnlJ Ranga, Shri

N lES

Abdul Wahid. Sbri T. Chandriki. Sbri Hajarnavis. Shri Achal Singh, 8bri Chattar Small. ihri Hanlda, Shri Subodh Achuthan, Shri Chaturvedi, Sbri S. N. Hem Raj, Shri Akkamma Devi, Shrimati Chaudhuri. 8hri D. S. Iqbal SiD8h, Sbri AnianapPI, Shri Chaudhuri, 5hri Sachlndra Jadhav, Sbri Tubhidal .....d, Sbri Bhapat Jha Chavda. Shrimati Jam\1Dldevi. ShrQilati Joshi, Shri A. C. B.l Kri.hno SiDJh, Sbri Daliit Singh. Sui BuptPi. Shrilgati RCD"'" D ... Dr.M.M. Josbi. Sh~ Iqbhadra Jyotilhi, S!lri J.P. Barman, Shri P. C. Do" Sbri B. K. Kamblc. Shri B.sappa, Ihri D .., Sbri N. T. Koppen. Sui Balumatari. Sbri Du, 8hri Sudhlnlu BasWUlt, 5hri Das_wa, Shri Karulhirumao, 8u; Kayal, Shri P. N. a ...... Shri DUI, Shri G. Itcdoria. Sbri C. M. Bhqat, Sbri B. R. Delhmukh. Shri Sbinji Rao S. Khadilksr. Sbri Bhanja Dco. Shri L. N. Dey, Sbri S. K. ~ •• Dr.P.N. Bhatkar. Sui Dhaoll,8hri Khan, SAri Osman Ali Bill, Sbri J.8.S. Dhuleabwar Mecna. Shri Khln, Shri Shahnawu Borooah, Shri P. C. Digbe, Shri KhaAoI. Sbri Mchr Chaa4 BrajcshwN Prated. &lld Dineab SiD.h. Shri Kindar LBl. Sbri Bm ~ 1-01, 8ui Dubey, Shri R. O. lCoujalii, ,bri H. V. Chabavull. Skri P. R. B1ayaperuma!. Sbri ]{rip, ShaoW. Sui CIooDda. SIIri_d h ...... Gan'pati Ram, Shri Krflh!ll, Shri M. R. Cbandrabban Sinah. Shri Gandlt.i. Shri V. B. KriJlanll8lChari. Shri T. Tr Chandrascthar. SaIimati Gholh. Slui Atul,.. Kureel, Sui B. N. Motwn re: MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Communal disturbances in East Pakistan and West Bengal ~~ •• ,S"ri Ou, Sari S~ 5hri ~h Sbrimali PaliWII, Shri Sarma, Shri A. T. Lalit Sen. Shri Pande, 5bri K. N. Sar.,abbama Deri. Sbrimad La,kar, 5hri N. R. Pandey, Sbri R. S. Sen, 5bri P. G. Laxmi Bai, Shrimati Pandey Shri Vi,hwa N,tlt S~ Devi, ShrilDati Mlhadco PI... d, 51lri PIlDJ11 Lal. Shri Shankarai,•• Sbri Mahade.... Praaad., Dr. Paramuivan. 8hri SI"rml, Sbri .\. P.I Malllab,Sltri Patel. 8hri N. N. Sharma, S..,ri D. C. Mahishi, Dr. ~S Patel, Silri P. R. 'f Shashi Ranjan. 8hri M .. imoona Sult,n, Shrimati Pate), Shri Raje,h.... ar Shastri, 8hri Lal Bah.dur Malaiebami, Shri Palij, Sbri S. B. Shinde, 8hri Mallick, Shri Ramachandra Patil. Shri T. A. 8hinltre. Shri M. P. Mlllilen. Shri Patnaik. Sbri B. C. Shree N: rayan Das, Shri MandaI, Shri Vamuna Prasad Pattabbi RIIJlIA, Stu-I Shyamkl mari Devi, Shrimati Maniyaqadan, Shri Pillai, Shri Nataraja Siddananjappa. Sui Mantri, Shri Prabhakar, 8Mi Nanl Sidhcahwar Pras.ad, Shri Marandi, Shri Pratap Singh. 8mi Singh, Shri R. P. Masuriy. Din, Shri Raghunath SinSh, 8mi Singha. Smi G. It, Matcharaju, Shri Rai, Shrimati Sihodrabai Sinha, Shri Slt,1 Nanayan Mehdi. Shri S. A. Ra;a, 8hri C. R. ~h Shrimati T:~h ... ari Mchrotra. Shri Braj Bihari Raideo Sin,b. 8hri Sinhasan Singh, Shril Mehta, Shri J. R. Raju, Dr. D. S. Sivappraghallsan, Shri It. Menai, Shri Gopai Dan Raiu, 8bri D. B. SODnane, Slui Minimata, Shrirnali Ram 8cwak. 8mi Subramam.m, Shri C. Mishra, Shri Bibbuti Ram Singh, 8hri' Sumat Prasad. Shri MobaDty, Shri G. Ram Subh.. Singh, Dr. Surendra Pal Sinah, Shri Mohiuddin. Sbri Ramaswamy, Shri S. V. SwarlD Singh, Shri Mohsin, Shri RBmdhani Das. 8hri Tiwary. Sbri D. N. Morafka. Shri Rane, Smi. Tiwary, 8hri R. S. More. Sbri K. L. Rao, Dr. K. L. Tyagi. Shri Mukerjee. Shrimati S.arda Rao, 8hri Krishnamoortby Uikey, Shri Murli Manohar. Sbri Rao. Shri Muth,.al UpadhYlya. Shri Shin Dutl Murthy, Shri B. S. Rao, Shri Rameshwar Valvi, Sbri Musafir, Shri G. 5. Rawandale, Shrill Varma. Shri R..,.indra Muthiah. Shri Ray, Shrimati Renuta Verma,' Shri Balgovind Naidu, Sbri V. G. Redd.i. Dr. B. Gopala Virbbadra Sinab. Shri Nallakoya, Shri Rcddiar. Shri V,..s, Shri Radhelal Nanda. Sbri Reddy, Shrimati Vasboda Wad.i'Wa, Shri Nayat, 8hri Moha. Roy, Sbri Biahwanath Yadab, Shri N. P. NaYaI, Dr. SUlhila Saba, Dr. S. K. Yadava, Shri B. P. Nilam, Shrimati 8avitri Saigal. Shri A. S. Niranjan Lat. Shri Samanta, Sbri 8. C. The motion Was negatived. Mr. Speaker: I shall now put to tan Government to respect the yote Shri M\lk,erjee's motion to the rishts of the minority commu- yote of the House. The question is: nity in East ~; "This House, hamc considered (b) liberalise adequately tlle the situation arising out ot the nUil'lItion facilities to enllble all communal disturllances in East thoee to come over from Eut Pakistan resl,lltin¥ in heavy loss Pakist/ln who want to; of life and property of the members of minority community and (c) rehabilitate about Ii mil- their influx to India and cOllle- lion refugees who had earUer quential distullbancu in West come over from East Pakistan. Bengal, il ot opinion tJhat the Gov- thereby making therp. Ii prey to ernment of India has failed to- frustration and discontel).t; (a) take adequately strolli (d) curb reactionery commu- measures to compel the Pakis- nal forces in India who, by 571 Motion reo FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Communal disturbances 572 in East Pakistan and West Bengal [Mr. Speaker] (e) ensure timely and effec- advocating a policy Of retalia- tive protection by the West tion against the Muslim mino- Bengal State admihistration of rity in India as a reply to Pa- lives and property of tJIle Mus- kistani oppression of Hindus, lim minority in Calcutta and strike at the root of India's other places. thus necessitating secular and democratic princi- deployment of the army there." ples; and (3). The Lok Sabha divided: Ayes 12; Noes 195. DivUioD No.3] [U,24 hrs. AYES

Chakravarti. Shrimati Ren. Gupta, Shri Iodrdiit Roy, Dr. Saradish Chatterjee. Shri H. P. Manohlran. Sbri Sen. Dr. Ranen Chatterjee, Smi N. c. Mukerjee, S ..".i H. N. Uti.. , Shri Gopaim. Smi A. K. Nambiar, Shri Warior. Shri NOES

AbJul \V_hid Shri T De" Shri S. K. Mahadeo. Prasad Sbri - Acbal Sinal>, SIIri Dbulesbwar M ...... Slirl Mahadeva Prasad, Dr. Acbuthan, Shri Digbc, Shri Mabtab. Smi Aklwnma Dcvi. Sbrimati Din.. b Singh, Shri Mabishi, Dr. Sarojini An;anappa. Shri Dubey, Smi R. G. Maimoona Sultan, Shrimati Azad, Shri Bhopat Jb. Elayaperumal. Shri Malai chami. Shri Bal Krishna Singh. Shri Gmapati Ram, Shri Mallick, Shri Rama Chandra Barkataki. Sbrimati Renuka Gandhi, Shri V. B. Mansen. Shri Barman, Sbri P. C. Gbosh, Shri Atul,a Mandai, 5hri Yamuna Praaad Borupa!. Smi P. L. Hajarnavis, Shri Mantri. Shri Basappa, Shri Han.llda. Shri Marandi. Shri Basumatari. Hem Raj, Sbri Ma:. ,:,a Din, Shri BaswaDt. Shri Iqbal Singh, Smi MatchJl'a, _ Shri Bcsra. Shri Jadhav, Shri Tul.hidas Mehdi. Shri S. A. Bhapt, Shri B. R. Jamunadevi, Shrimati Mehrotra, 5hri Bra; Bibari Bhanjo Deo. Sm; L. N. Joshi, Shri A. C. Mehta, Shri J. R. Bhatka:. Sbri Joshi. Shrimati Subhaclra MeDii, Shri Gopa! Dan Bist, Shri J. B. S. 1Jotishi. Shri J. P. Minimau, Sbrimati Borooah. 8hri P. C. Kamble, Shri Mishra. Shri Bibhuti Braieshwar Prued, Shri Kappen, Shri Mohanty, Shrj G. BriJ Sui Lal. Sbri Karuthirumm, Sm; Mohiuddin, Shri Chakraverti, Shri P. R. Kayal, Shri P. N. Mobsin, Shri Chanda, Sbrimati Jyotana Kedaria, Sbri C. M. Morarka, Shri Cbandrabban Sinah. Smi Kbadilkar, Smi More, Shri K. L. Chandrasekhat. Shrimati Khan, Dr. P. N. Mukerjee, Shrim.ti Sharda Chandriki. Shri Khan, Sbri Osman, Ali Murli Manohar, Shri Chattar Singh, Shri Khan, Sbri Sbabnawaz Mhony Shri B. S. Chaturvedi, Sbri S. N. Khanna, Shri Mehr Chud Musafir. Shri G. S. Chaudhuri. Shri D. S. Kindar LaI, Smi Muthiah, Shri Chaudhuri. Shri Sachindra RouiaIgi, Shri H. V. Naidu, Shri V. G. ChIlVda. Shrimati Kripa Shankar, Shri Nlllakoya, Shri Daljit Singh, Shri Krishna, Shri M. R. Nand•• Shri Du,Dr.M.M. Kri 8hnamachari, Shri T. T. N.yak, Shri Mohan D .., Sm; B. K. Kureel, Shri B. N. 'Nayar. Dr. SUlhila fDas. Shri N. T. Lakhan na •. Shri Nigam. Shrimati Savitri Das, Shri Sudbansu Lakshmikanthamma, Shrimati ~ LaJ, Shri Dasappa. Shri La1it Sen, Shri Oza, Shri Dan. Shri G. Lakar, Smi N. R. Paliwal, Smi Delhmukh. ~ Shinii Rao S.l Laxmi BRi. Sbrimati Pande, shri K. N. 573 Motion re: MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Communal disturb- 57 ances in East Pakistan and West Bengal NOES-colltd J, Shri R. S. Rane, Sbri Shyamkuma ri Devi. Shrimati Pandey. Shri Vi,hwa Nath Roo, Dr. K. L. Siddan:mjappa. Shri Panna Lal. Sbri Roo, Sbri Krilbnamoorthy Sidheshwar 8~ Shri Paramasivan, 8bri Ran, Sbri Muthyd Singba, Shri G. K. Patd, Shri N. N. llao. 8hri Rameshwar Sinha. Shri Satya Narayan Patel, Sbri P. R. RawandaIc. 8hri Sinha, shrimati Tarkcshwari Patel, 5hri Ra;eshwar Ray, Sbrimati Reauka Sinhaaa:o Sinah. Shri Pati!. Shri S. B. Redeli, Dr. B. Gopalo SiYlPPraahassan. Sbri K. Pati!, Shri T. A. Reddiar, Sbri Sonavane. Shri Pamaik, Sbri B. C. ReJdy, Sbrimati Yuboda Subramaniam, Shri C. Pattabhi Raman. Shri C. R. OY. Shri Bish.anatk Sumat Prasad. s Pillai. Shri Nataraia Saba, Dr. S. K. S=dra Pal Singh. Sbri Prabhakar. Sbri Naval Saiga1, Shri A. S. Swanm Singh, Shri Pratap Siogh, Sbri . Sa manta, Shri S. C. Tiwary, Shri D. N. Raghunath Sinal>, Shri Samnani. Shri Tiwary, Shri R. S. Raghuramailh, Shri' Sanna. Sbri A. T. I Tyagi, Shri Rai, Shrimati Sahodrabai Satrabh1lm& Devi, Sbrimati Uikey, Sbri Raja, Shri G. R. Sen. Smi P. G. Upadhyaya, Shri Shin Dutt Rajdeo Singh, Sbri Shakuntala De'ri, Shrimati Valvi, Shri Raju, Dr. D. S. Shankaraiya, Shri Varma, Sbri RaviDdra Raiu. 5bri D. B .. Sharma. Shri A. P. Verma, Shri BI.\go'Yind Ram Sewall:. Shti Sbanna, Shri D. C. Virbhadra Singh, Shr; Ram Singh; Shri Shastri, Shri La} Bab.due Vyu, Shri Rodbelal Ram Subhq: Sinlh, Dr. Shinde. Shri Wadiwa, Snri Ramaswamy. Shri S. V. Shinkre. Shri M. P. Yadaba, shri N. P. Ramdhani Das. Shri Sbree Narayan nl., Shri Yadava, Shri H. P. The motion was negatived.

Shrimati Renuka Ray: Sir. In view Pakistan resulting in heavy loss of the hon. Minister's assurance, I Of life and property of the mem- withdraw my amendment. bers of minority community and their influx to India and conse- Mr. Speaker: Has the hOn. Member quential disturbances in West leave of the House to withdraw her Bengal. is of opmlOn that the substitute motion? Gm'erriment of India has utterly failed to- The motion was, by leave, h~ (a) take effective steps to Shri Tridib Kumar Cbaudhuri: Sir, fulfil the solemn assurances I do not press my motion. given to the minority in East Mr. Speaker: Has the hon. Mem- Pakistan at the time of Pakis- ber leave of the House to withdraw tan that the life property and his substitute motion? honour of Hindus' left there will be protected and they will be The motion was, by leave, withdrawn. ensured equal treatment;

Mr. Speaker: Shri Brij Raj Singh (b) ensure safe transit to the is not here. intending Hindu emigrant to India: Shri Bade: It may be put to vote. (c) remove all restriction on Mr. Speaker: It has to be put to the entry of Hindus from East vote once it has been moved as the Pakistan to West Bengal; hon. Mover is not here. The ques- (d) educate and rnobili!e the tion is: world opinion against the per- sistent genocide of Hindu ''This House. having considered minority in East Pakistan the situation arising out of the whose num·ber has been ~ communal disturbances in East ed from 16 million to 9 million; 575 Motion re: FEBRUARY 13, 1964 Communal disturbances 576 in East Pakistan a" West Benlllli [Mr. Speaker] go (e) curb the activities at Pl"D- (e) tlke reciprocal action Pakistan element. in c.JG\ltta against the closure of India's and other neighbouring area. Deputy High Coznmislioner'1 In West Bengal who instigated Oftice at ltajshahi; COMmunal riota there; and (h) get rid of the Pakistani (f) abtogatl! agreement to Nationals serving in Docty.rd transfer Betuwari to Pakistan and olllier key services of West which amounts to destruction 8eaaIaL" and sure death of ten thousand The Lok Sabha divided: AI/e. 8; Hindus of that area; Noell 1116.

Division No. '] AYES [lUI lin.

Bade, Sbri Bbeel, Shri P. H. TriYedi. Shri U., M. Bcrwl, Shri 0_ LoI Gokann Pruad, Shril Verma, Shri S. L. Bbawoni, Sbn Lakbmu] Reddy, Sbri Nuullbba NOES

Abdul Wabid. Sbri T. Dey, Shri S. K. Lalit Sen. 8hri Achal Singh. Shri Dbaon, Shri La,kar. Sbri N. R. Achutban, Sbn Dhuleshwar Mcena, 5hri Lumi Bai. Shrimati Akkamma Devi, Shrimati ~ Dighe,8mi Mabadeo Prasad, Shri AIljlDlPpa. Sbri Dine,h Siaab. Smi Mahadeva Prasad. Dr. Azad. Sbn Bbagwal rba Dubey. 8hri R. G. Mabtab. Shri Barkataki, Shrimati ReDua Elayapcruma1, 8mi Mahisb:, Dr. Sarojini Barman. Shri P. C. Ganapati Ram, 8mi Maimoona Sultan, Shrimlti Barupai, Shri,P. L. Gandhi. 8hri V. B. Malaiebami, Shri Basapp., gbri Ghosh. Shri Atulya Mallick. Shri Rama Chandra Buumatari. Shri Halamavis, 8hri Manaen. Shri Buwant Shri Hansda. Sbn Subodh Mand.G.l. 8hri Yamuna Pr.. ad Besra. Shri Hem Ra i, 8hri Maniyangadan, 8hri Bbaaa.. Sbri B. R. Iqbal Singh. Sbri Mantri, Shri Bhania Deo, Sbri L. N. J.dbaV'. 8hri Tul.hidaa Marandi, Shri Bhatkar. Shri Jamunadevi, Sbrimati Masuriya Din, Shri Bist, Shri J. B. S. JOlhi. Shri A. C. Mateharaju, 8hri Borooah, Shri P. C. Jgsbi. Shrimati Subhadra Mehdi, Shri 8. A. Bta;eshwar Prasad. Shri Jyotism. Shri J. P. Mehratra. 8hri Braj Bihari Brij Basi Lal, Shri Kamble. Smi Mehta, 8hri J. R. Chakraverti., 8hri P. R. Rappen, 8hri Mengi. Shri Gopal Datt Chanda, Shrimati J,otsna Karuthiruman, 8hri Minimata, Shrimati Chandrabhan Siogh, Sbri Kayal, Sbri P. N. Mtahra. Sbri Bibhuti Chandrasckhar. Shrimati Kedaria, 8hri C. M. Moha::l'Y, Shri G. Chandriki. Shri Khadilkar. 8hri Mabiuddin, 8mi Cbattar Singh, Shri Khan, Dr. P. N. Mohsin, 8hri Cbaturvedi, Shri S. N. Khan, 8hri QlroaD Ali Moran.:a, 8hri Cbaudhuri. Shri O. S. Kban. Shri Sbahn..... More. 8hri K. L. Chaudhuri, Shri Sacbindra Khao.na, Shri Mehr Cband MukcrJe-:, Shrimati Shard. Daliit Singh, Shri Kindar Lal, Shri Murli Manohar, 8hri Du,Dr.M.M. Kaujalai. Shri H. V. Murthy. 8hri B. S. Du. Shri B. K. !trips Shankar, Smi Muufir, Shri G. S. Du.ShriN.T. Krishna. Shri M. R. Muthioh. Shri D_, 8bri Sudhan.u Krilbnllmacbarl, Sbri T. T. Naidu, Shri V. G. D_Sbri Kureel. Shri B. N. NalJakoy., Sbri 0 .... 8lui G. Lalttwn Du, 8hri Nanda,8hri ne.laalukh, Stari Shin;i Rao S. Laltt_iba.ttaam.&. Shri.. , i Na,.. Shri Mohan 577 Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President 578 dlachargtng the functions of the President NOES-contd. N11It. SUlhil1 Dr. Ram Subbq SiDah, Dr. Sbyomkumort Devi, Sbrtmati S_1i Snhti Sbree N ..._ Du, Sbri 111_. Ramaswamy. Sbri S .•V. NiHb_ La!, Dri Ramdbml Du. Sbri SI44maDjappa, Sbri 0 ... 8brl RIDe. Shri Si4beohwor Praaad. Sbri Poliftl, Silri Roo. Dr. K. L. Singh, Sbrl II.. P. Pancle, SIIri K. N. Rio. Shri JtriIlmamoorthy SIIISba. Shri G. K. rlDdey. Sbri R. S. RIo. Sbri Muthyoi S_. Shri Sityl N_ym Pandey, Sbri Villi.. Nath Rao, Sbri RMDIIbwar SIaha, SbriJMtl Tuteoh"'rl PIDDI Lal. Sbri He.andale. Shri -.. SbIab. Shri Puamasivan, Shri Ray. Sbrimatl Renuka SI ..ppraabooUD Sbri K. PllOl. Shri N. N. keddi. Dr. B. Gopala Son.. lDII, Shri PllOl. Shri P. R. keddiar. Shri SubnmaDiom, Sbri C. Patel, Smi Rajesbwu Red4y, S_1i Yaaboda Sumat Prasad, Shri Plli!, Sbri S. B. kOJ. Sbri sw...... th SureDdn Pol SiDgb, Shri Patit. Shri T. A. 50li0. Dr. S K. SWIfID S11I8h. Shri PatDoik, Sbri B. C. Saipl. Sbri A. S. Tiwary. Sbri D. N. Panabhi 1ImwI. Sbri C. II.. Sammla. Sbri S. C. TIWIfY. Shri R. S. PaHai, Sbri Nit_raja SIUIUlUli. 5bri Tyosi. Shri Prabhakar, Shr-i Naval S",- Sbri A. T. Uikey. Sbri Pratap Singh. Shri Saryabbama Devi. Shrimali Upldbyaya, Sbri Sbl.. Dutt !l.alhunltll Singh. Shri Sen, Sbri P. G. V.lvi, Shri Raghuramaiab. Shri Shakuntala Devi. Shrimati Varma. Shri Ravindra Rai, Sbrim.ti Slhodrabi.i Sbankaraiya. Shri Verma, 8bri Balgovind Raja, Sbri G. II.. Sharma. Shri A. P. Virbbadra Singh. Shri Rajdeo Singh, Shri Sharma, Shri D. C. V,as, Sbri Radbelol Raju, Dr. D. S. Sbaatri. Sbri La! Babadur Wldiwa, Sbri RaJu. Shri D. B. Shinde. Shri V.dab, Shri N. P. Ram Sewak, Shri Shiokre. Sbri M. P. Ya_l. Sbri B. P. Ram Singh. Shri The motion was negatived. Mr. Speaker: I need not put the Shri Hari Vislulu ~ ~ original motion. We take up the gabad): What is the allocation of time next item of business. for the debate? Mr. Speaker: We will see to it 13:211 bra. later on. MOTION ON ADDRESS BY THE Sbri Sacbiadra Chaudhuri: While VICE-PRESIDENT DISCHARGING moving this motion. I wish to add my THE FUNCTIONS OF 'i'HE PRESI- personal gratitude for the gracioWl DENT. Address that the Vice-President has Shri SachlDdra Chaudbllri (Ghatal): been pleased to deliver. I beg to move: Sir I wish to add my own personal "That an Address be presented thanks also to the Vice-President for to the Vice-President discharging the gracious way in Which it has been the functions Of the President in his pleasure to review the happen- the following terms:- ings of the last year and to invite us to our duties in Parliament. The "That the Members of Lok speech has been distinguished for its Sabha as.;cmbled in this Session clarity and its succinctness, and it is are deeply grateful to the Vice- an entirely objective approach to the President discharging the func- problems which are before us. There tions of the President for the has been a warning that we have Address which he has been passed througlh difficult times and pleased to deliver tel both further difficulties are ahead of \Ia. Houses of Parliament assembled Equally, there has been a quiet together on the 10th February. optimism Of the performances Of this 1964.' .. country and this Government. H. hal FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the Vice-President S80 579 Motion on Adcb'e8s discharging the functions of the President are some people in the private sector [Shri Sachindra Chaudhuri.] who can give us that experience, who put before UJ5 and has rather remind- can give us that technical know how ed us that we are a democracy, a and who would conform to the SOCia- democracy which is wedded to social- list principles of this country, I see ism, Socialism can be given any no objection in their being entrusted meaning that we wish to, but the with that task. By that I do not meaning I· understand by socialism is mean that the Government is to abdi- this: 1lh.at it is not enough that the cate its function; I only relegate or means of production should be m delegate my powers to the private the nation. In fact, it is not neces- sector and do nothing more. The sarily that they should be; there heavier means Of production have to should be a more egalitarian approach be in the hands of Government. and between man and man. There should if Government needs assistance of the be equality of opportunity, and where private sector, the private sector it is a question of commodities, there comes in with its assistance with h~ should be a fair and equal distribu- knowledge that if there ~ anything tion of commodities. In order that more left in its hands than is just th.. re may be a fair and free distri- as remuneration fer its stewardshIp bution of commodities, there has to of the nation's wealth it has to be be production. That production can taken out. And havine taken it out, be made either by the public sector it has got to be used for the pur- or by the private sector or a combi- poses of tlhe State. nation of the two. In our country, we have accepted the amalgamation When we think Of production, the of the private sector with the public hon. Vice-President has told us that in the field of production, industrial sector for the greater benefit of the people of the country and the coun- oToduction, we are better oft' .than iast year by seven to eight per cent. try itself. I do not wish to go into statistics in 13'32 hrs. this matter. Statistics is not neces- [MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]. sary. I accept that there has been Certain effects do arise when you progress in the matter of production. give power or more power to a But I will also have to express my small group of people. It is almost difficulties in this particular direction. a corollary to allowing only a small That is, at what cost? Being a per- body Of people to function in the son concerned in commerce in an in- field of economies of tlhe country: direct way it always occurs to me that there will be more concentra- that if I am to produce something, I tion of power concomitant with the would like to know if I am doing it means of production in their hands. at the minimum possible cost. If you And in order to stop that means produce coal, steel--other countries have got to be organised and means in the world also produce them-how have got to be thought of. But if do our prices compete or compare production particularly In our coun- with those elsewhere? Are they com- try has got to be maintained, then peti;tive or are they not? Also.;f in that case. we have to think not they are being produced not for ex- only in terms of the position of the port but for the purpose of this coun- means of production-after all if you try, do we with our national income have got the money you can buy the have enouglh to be able to buy that machinery-but the administration of which is produced? It is no use pro- the busmess of production, the techni- ducing a ton of steel for Rs. 2,000 if cal men and the technical know-how the naticnal income is not more than and the ;~ which is behind Rs. 5(l!) a year. And in that, we do it. If we find that in this country not know wh:J.t the position is whe- which is meant for all alike, there ther the production is or is not 58I Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President 582 discharging the junctions of the President competitive. One of the reasons for After the question of eA-Port, the which the price may go up, of any question of the third Plan comes. And commodity, would be the absence of here a warning has been given by the indigenous materials. By indigenous han. Vice-President. In the third materials I do not mean only raw year, still, in certain directions we materials which come either from the are lagging be.lrind. I am not pessi- mines or from the fields but also such nristic about it. When we plan, we manufactured materials as are neces- plant forward and we plan for things sary for the final fabrication of any which 1<'e ha ve not seen or visualised. ~ If they have got to be im- There may be a little defect here or ported, then in that case, the cost there in planning. For that tlhe Plan- rises. Again, if we buy machinery ning Comnrission cannot be blamed. along with spares, further spares nor need we turn our faces in the should be necessary and if you have other direction simply 'because we got to go out to ~ countries to find that we are lagging behind. get those spares, our cost will go up; Efforts and endeavours have got to if you have got to get a higher techni- be made, but along with that, may I cal know-how it will go up. How suggest that we nright also, if neee&- much of the technical know-how, how sary, prune our Plan, cut off dead- mUch of the spares and how much wood, so that even the plant of the raw materials are being imported? I Plan may grow healthily? It may be wish the Government, particularly, the that we shall not !ha,'e thE' full Ministers in charge of 'ibis would achievement of what we had planned gh-e their attention more to the for, but at least it will be a healthy indigenoUs production, more to the achievement which will not fail all production in smaller units for the along the line and which will not purpose of feeding larger units than make any encroachment on the plans is probably done at the moment. as we consider the fourth Five Year Plan. This brings me to the other aspect, namely, export. In the matter of In the field Of production in agricul- export we have been told that our ture, t!he position does not seem to be export situation is somewhat better very happy. Of course, it is not than last year. Aeain the question necessary for me to say that agricul- arises, and I am happy that that is ture is largely dependent on natural so, and I thank tlhe Government for forces and blessiI!gs of nature in the that, and that is, at what cost are we shape of rain equable climate. exporting. We have got export b0- absence of pests, and so on. But hu- nuses, and export incentives . and man ingenuity can help us there, A& perhaps a certain amount of price sup- I represent a rural community given port in the matter of export. All to agriculture, I may say what are the thllt costs money. The community wants which are put forward by the contributes the money by way of taxa- agricultural community and I believe tion. If that money is expended for this is true all Over India-irrigation. the purpose of earning the hard-earn- ferti lisers, storage of crops and mar- ed foreign exchange, in that case, the keting of crops. We have got the lar- foreign exchange 'is bougiht at a stiff gest scheme of irrigation where I price. Then again We come back to come from. but this ~ sciheme the same question: can we have pro- will not bring any water into the duction which is cheap enough to fields for another three or four years. compete. and good enough to compete In the meanwhile the fields do not In the other markets by virtue of their produce that ~h which we want own intrinsic quality rather than by to produce and the troubie IS "'e reason of any pressure that is given to have not got any scheme of irrilration. the sales by these inducements or Can it be suggested that smaller incen tivetI? schemes of irrigation which ~h FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the Vice-President 584 discharging the functions of the President [Shri Sachindra Chaudhuri.] sessment is made of Wihat the production is likely to be ana before the lants. In the meanwhile, what have that after all, the ultimate end must we to do about it? Having regard to be larger production. Larger produc- the fact that the slant has now gone tion would facilitate the pU1"Vl!ying of from industry to agriculture to a cer- commodities to the community-agre- tain extent, may it be suggested that ed. But however large the produc- if importation of fertiliser is nec.... tion may be, if the oroduction is not :sary, that should be done? So far as properly channelled, it will not reach storage is concerned, again difficulty the other end. So, distribution is a has corne. We have got to provide factor which has 1I0t to be taken care storage. Although the warehousing of. schemes are there. I do not know if An unhappy note is there in the the benefits of these schemes have speech--correct. but unhappy. I mean actually reached the remoter villa,es. the question of corruption. Corrup- tion, in order to be checked, has got Above all. there is the question of to be considered from two aspects. finance. In my humble knowledge, One is remedial and the other is up- not very great in matters of finance it rooting corruption altogether. This seems that so far as rural credit Is disease Of the body politic today, concerned, it has got to be based on having regard to the rumours we the cooperative system. If we can hear. has got far deeper roots and the have agricultural banks so much the cankerous growth in the body is far better. After all, the inodern farm greater than is imagined or that can implements have got to be obtained be eradicated by setting up a com- and we are reducing the holdini. It mittee for the purpose of getting rid will not be oossible for one individual Of corruption. A committee might farmer to ~ for a large quantity of function. but when it functions. It modern farm equipment. So. the only has its attention directed to one. coopera'i\'e movement, in my 'humble two. three or four Individuals and in submission, is rightly conceived of their cases they say HAye" Or "Nay", and it should be pushed forward with wihether the person has been corrupt greater vigour in the rural areas. or not. But when we say that Mr. On the question of distribution and X or Mr. Y is corrupt v'e forget that production, we have seen over and they ~ the people of ' the country. X over again in this country that pro- is our brother. son or relative. Where duction might be sufficient, but there is the wrong really? It is this in my is no proper distribution. To illust- humble submission that has brought rate my point, let me take sugar. down our national pride. Also. the "There has been sufficiency in !IIlgar vast differences in the resources or production in this country. Maybe it the people in this country makes for is 4 per ~ less this year than corruption. If one goes back into last year, but there has not been such history, it will be found that neve.. a shortage that people could not have has there been a time at least In -oy sugar. Yet. at one time last year, we memory which goes back fe,r ~ "'.1'"'. ~~ were all here clamourin, about p&'O- when you found that An ... _ per distribution of m,ar. If an as- tile large m.eaILI of production, i...e Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKAl by the Vice-President 586 discharging the functions of the President large ill&tallations at his disposal made everyone get together for tAe where he can live lilte a prillce. Nor purpose oct repelling the Chinese? do we find at any time this vd.st dilte- renee being exploited for the purpose And. in this connection, we have to . of subordinating those who have been congratulate the Minister of Defence ~ witih public duties. Where for stepping up the production of that happens. it is not enoUCh to warlike materials and for having punish the person who has been enlarged and made more efficient the corrupted, but it is also necessa,ry to army. puniJ;h the person who has been' cor- We are ~ rupt. One has got to think of inltil- a nation, BOd we ask for ling in our young men now a senS6: n.f giving ourselves and others local parliaments. Equally happy am protection when need be. I that certain of Our brethren Hl Africa have attained freedom and we That, Si:r, brings another welcome them to the brotherhood me to of rather sad state of things. nations of free I am talk- pc",;)ll'. May they ing of prosper. Pakistan. It has been de'bate(! so much here and at great length There is one thing which has been that it is hardly necessary for me to agonising us for over a year now. add anything mare than to say thaI Friends turned into traitors-I mean I congJ'Mulate the people of Kashmir the Chinese threat. The Chinese who suffered from that heinolls are there poised tor an attack. We offence, the attempted descration of the do not know what is there in their Holy Relic, and yet who in true Indian mind. Nor would they come and help tradition d:id not seek to turn their us despite our holding out our hand sorrow into hatred. Unfortunately, it Of peace. But what One has not con- had the oppo,ute reaction in ""me sidered is this. Is there a sen.., of parts of pakistan, I mean in Eastern urgency or is it a cold war? If it is, Pakistllln. No woods of condemnation then why do we have the curtaiImpnt are suffi.ient tor any nation, which of individua' ,:;om by maintaining says that thev are the tallowers of the ~~ ""dia Act and the De- that egalitarian, magnanimous reli- fence r' . i1llles? If it is not, why gion of Islam, to try and pervert that do we no, ': ~ 'fiT '3T ~ ~ ;;rf.t 'f'T-'F''iTa' ~~~;~T'~~ ~ w mft CI"F ~ ~ ttm";tT ~ ~ ~ ~ 'Ill:; im f'f> ~ i'f'I'ff.T m ~ :;hIT f.f: ~ ~ <'rl"lf lfTTl1 ~ I ~ ~ ~'T~T~~~ C~~TT~~~ if ~ ~ ~ f.I;!rr ~ I ~ CR"hl; ~ ~ f-/i1: ~ m' ~ it 'li'rf1{ ~ Rit 'fiT .. ~ mtf ~ m'< ~T ~ if; ~ if; ~ '<\ 'l'i<:r if>':, "3"'f '!it m" ~T ~'T''T ~ W ~ ~'T:~':~''~;;;; ~ ~ ~ I ~~ ifTi'f '!it ;;mt om ~ 'f1T 'f>mrn if '-IT ~ f.I; "1 ~~ ~;;;'T~T ~~ 9 €. '." it 'lW:m" if; ~ om SlIT '1T I SlIT W ~ ~T ~ '<\ ~ %l:fr m<: ~ ~ ~~ ''T'T~~T; ~T ~ ~'~ ~ ~ <11"f'1"T f.I;!rr I ~T~ ~ ~ flrf'fQr ~ '~ f'F ~~ ~ ifTi'f if; ~ l1" qn?:f "I"T ~ ~ >.it ': f<'fl1T f'f> ~~ ~ ~: 'fi"'f ",1 ~ f;;11T '':'1T ~T ~ f.I; ~ ir;ff "'t ~;;~ W-if W 1{ 0 ~ 0 ~ 0, 'T~~~~'T:~ ~ '~ ~ ~~ ;~5':~; ~'T: ~ ~ if;ow: ~~~ ~~~;~'T: ~ ~'T '-IT f.I; Ii ~ ~'T ~ if>':'1T ~~~ ~'T;~ ~~ W "¥ 'fi9 ~ ~ T :T~ I it ~ 'T<: "f'Tif"3"'f ~ S'l Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13. 1964 by the Vice-President 59Z discha1'ging the functions of the President ~:'T ~ ~T ~~~ ~~ ;;r(ij;I.II('"I' ~ 1!r.lI' ~~T' ~ mmft ~ <:T mr '~;~'~~'T~ ~: ~ 'l1: ~ '1ft ~ if.t 'fiT ~ iff ~ if; Cfl1l1f .mr;o;r if; ~ ~ I ~~ ~ flI;m 'fT I ~ <:"Iii 'i1 tfropT tffift ~ it WTl"f ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ gm fit; ~ ~'T ~ (f'f> ~~ ~;:;~ ~ ~ ~ ~ iffl it. mtr 7~ <'fttT M>(if;q,<:i''I' ~ 'fiT ~ if; ~' ifTif f;[T ~ ~ 1f."T- ~ ~~ ~ rrtf ~ mr;r,c ~ if; ~' ~T m:'Ii'l' it ~ 'liT ~ 'fiT ~ ~ ~ if; ir;;r +rT ~ f.r.!lT fif> ~ ~ iffl if; ~ ~;~~'~ ~ !IT ~ ~ 'fImft miff wr.lT if;;fr ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I otW ~ lfi'r ~ ifTif ij; m ~T;T:' ~ '1ft ;;f" ~; if ~~ m;;r flli ~ 'fI'if, ~ if; ~ >;i'tT f ~ ~ mm ~ ~ 'Ii1;;rT ;~ if 'f"T Wc it WH ~ m11<1T i1ft7 ~ ~ ~ ~ if ~ ~ ~ ~ '1ft ~ Shri Nath Pai (Rajapur.': She must err withdraw it. ~~~T~ Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath; We m;;r ~ ~ '~ if "'00 { if. 1 have never said it. (InteTTuPtions). ~ fq;<: ~ if>1J'IiT ;;rr ~ ~ m;;r +rr ~ ~ if; «f'f ~ ~ ~ fit; ~ 5hri Surllllciranath J)wivedy (Ken- draipara): We have not said anything . ~ ~ ~ "l'¥ffir ~ q inf- like that at any time. ",r t;V mm if; ~~' <:T'f>T l mm 'fir Shrj Bade rose- l% '~ ~ WR'l' 'fii;;rr;;r:rr <:!ill Mr. ~S: Will the ~ ~ mer ~ vq;fi ~ ~ ~ han. M.,mber pleaEe re8Wfl(> his seat? ~ ~ I Let me first see what she said. ~ Motion on AddTess MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) btl the Vice-PTesident 59,1 dischaTging the functions of the President ~ ~:~ ~~ ~ ;r;".: ~T ~ ~ ~ 11m "f ~ mark. II Mr. Depat1-SpeaI ~ ~ finality tor it. T~ ~ '1ft 0fll'RT ~ ~ f;;rm t ''~~h Nath Pai root!- 595 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the Vice-President 596 discharging the functions of the President ~~T~:~~ ~~~~~~'': ~~ .... , ... ~;;::~~~~~ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: She may re- ~;:: ;ffir, '3'f ~ ~ ~T ijfflf, sume her seat. lim:c lI>'t ijfflf, ~ 't ~ ...".. iF ft'Tt!; 'iiil'<'tiiil'iil ~ if11T<::iiI' ri fiI;In' ~ f.ti iti\" f-;r;::r ;;nmfT ~ ~T ~ V'. ~ r", ~ ~ ~ 'lor.rlli ~ ~ '3'f it ~ mit ~ m:.w-'SQjl!f· 1', ~ ~ ifr iIi'rImr '1>1' "frlt fIF ~ wAT ~ ~ '1ft, fult ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 9itfu'i 'Ff "'frc:r ij" '~ ij'flrA' ~ ~~ I ~~C' ~ It ~ -lc:T 'lit I ~~~ ~ ;r: ~ '!1t ~ ~ ~ ~ W em; ~ t t f.fi ;T~ fIT<'\' \9 ij" c; ~ a'F ll'TrnA' f'" ~ ''~T ro'li'f ij" ij''fr.!'mT ~~ I ~ ~ t f<;rQ; ~ ~''~~~~ ~ iip' 'l'll.<'fi'T t, ~ IFi;(i '1'n: m.: ~ t ~ it ~'::;~ 204.5 (Ai) LS-6 S99 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 btl the Vice-PTesidmt I); discha1'ging the fu.nctions of the P1'esident [>.furcr"r ~~T ~ ~ ~ if ~ ~ f;r-r; f.l!lrr ~ 1Ii1f'I;T 1 ~ 111' ~ tflI'T f.I; ..... ~T'T~~~~ ~':;;~~~ ~~;~ ~T~ ;rtf ~ ~ '!>'l" ~ « ;oft ~ ~~';;'~~~~'T~ ~ i!i1' ~ ~ ~ 'i?: ;f;i\' 1 if ;ftmr f<;r!rr m<: ~ ~ f.l!lrr Mr. Deputy-Speaker: 'I1he boa. f'fi ~ ~ 'ffi'IT ~ it ~ Member has taken 20 minutes now. tfurr;ft ~ 1 ~ a'f1 ~ ~ Shrimati Subhadra Joshi: I was told 'T~~':';:~~~~ that I will get 20 minutes at least. The hon. Mover gets 30 minutes and I get if1;T IT'l" 1'fT'!'ftlI' ~~ "'li'm m1'f ~ ~ ~ tmi ?t "IT ~ ~ 1' ~ 'fi,. ~ fil; !!'If m ~ Q."r ~ ~ ~ \ilI'ro ~ ;;lIRT wR ~ if ~ ~ I ~~~~~~~ if ~ fl1; !!'If m ~~ ~T wR i/l:irU ~ III' '>l[Rl!: it ~ ~ '11)?; iIl'l' ~ ~ fil; m ~ 'fill" 'i?: o;ft;ft 'fi<: ~ J;ITf1\l-t\" «fI""Iic ~ ~ ;f;ft 1 ~ ~ ;m' ~ ~~ 1f1T If>1'cr ~ I tl1'f ~T' ~ ~ '1fT ~ ifRf om ~ tflI'T 1 9;fij' ;;ror fl1; o;ft;ft ~ m ~ f.,.ii lIill,,4\ill<: ~ ~ f'" ~ if if ~ If'i!T ~ m~T ;fr ~ ~ ~ ~:: rn : if; I;f"l: ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ !lI'fr.r if Sabha assoembled in this Session ~: ~ ~ 'lfi ~~ ~ ~'';: are deeply grateful to the Vice- ~~~ I President discharging the functions of the President for the ~~''T'T':~ A,idress which he has been pleased to deliver to both Houses ~ ~~ ij; ~ ;~ fl!;lrr t, f.rnit of Parliament assembled together ~ ~ 9;i'if '1ft '~ ij; ~ ~ ~ on the 10th February, 1964.' .. if; 3il> ~~ ~ I ~ cr.nr ~ ~ fit; There are many amendments notice3 ~ :m Shri H. P. Chatterjee (Nabadwip): I move it. &R: f'I;«t ~ ~ if; ~ lIT f'I;«t lI'm" lIT ~ ij; ~ ~ Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Shri Tridib ~ 'fir ;mr' <'I1\T RlIT ;;ncrr ~ ~ Kumar Chaudhuri ... He is not here. Shri N. C. Chatterjee ... He too is ~'T~;;T~ I ~ not here. Shri Sivamurthi Swamy. '~;~~'~ Shri Sivamurthi Swamy (Koppal): I ~ ~ ~ I lIT 'T move it. ~ ~ ~ ~T 'T ~ ~'';: ~~ ~;~;; Shri Ranga (Chittoor): I move. ~ q'tt ~ ~ ij; ~ iff ;;nif Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Shri Muham- q'tt

,"fT ~~ ~~ ~ ~T : '~ regret that in the Address ''~ ~ iro l:\'fi' ~ there is no mention of the total falilure of the policy ,of 'solving t· ...... the minority question by a division of the country and no men- ~~' ~'' il'1<{ it WI' tion of a pel'manent policy which can save the millions of minorities in the divided countries from q) ~'~~ : if; m utter destruction and ruin. n (1) ~~'~''T~ Shri Sivamurthi Swamy: I beg to t I ~ ;;it 1fm 'ti'r ~ t ~ move: '!iT iI','{ iI'f'{ '1 ~ ies undertaken in terms of the Nehru-Liaquart; Agreement of 1950 and also to the necessity of reorienJtating the country's ••~~' ~: ~ policy towards Pakistan and in- Shri Lahri Singh ... he is not here; voki.ng international ~ Sbri Y. S. Chaudhary . . . he too for safeguarding the democratic is not here. Shri Bade. and human rig:hJt.s of minorities there; Shri Bade: I move. (bl that no me!lItion has been Mr. Deputy Speaker: Dr. L. M. Sin- made in the Addt-ess that the ghvi. state of emergency proclaimed in November, 1962 immediately Dr. L. M. Singhvi (Jodhpur): J: move. afteT the Chinese invasion need not be continued any further Mr. Deputy Speaker: Shri Sezhiyan as there is no apprehension of ... he is not here; Shri Manohar8n a ~ Chinese offens:ive . . . he too is not here. immediately; All these substitute motions will be (el that the T~ faLls to taken as moved. direct the political leaders to come together to share the res- Shri H. P. Chatterjee: I beg to ponsibilities of good and clean move: administration of the eotmtry to 60S Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President 606 discharging the functions of the President establish a strong democratic but mobilising moral and material national government especilall,y resources of the nation; during ~ emergency and planning period; ('b) that no ~ steps have been indicated in the Address (d) to note that

(f) the failure to take note of That at the end of the motion, the insecurity of life and person in following be added, namely:- Punjab and to suggest measures "but regret- for restoring ~; (a) that the Address has not (g) that the Address fails to given indication of (i) the POlicY mention the need to immediate- of the Government to give un- ly revoke th<- declaration of the hindered facilities to the minori- State of Emergency, to repeal ties of East Pakistan who want the Defence of India Act ana to migrate to India; (ii) res- to restore the fundamental rights ponsibilities of the Government of citizens suppressed under the to rehabilitate the imigrants provisions of tru;'t Act; from East Pakistan; (iii) the (h) that the picture of eoono- need to rehabilitate fully the milic progress alld achlevement disp1aeed persons who have paint"d in the Address does not come to India from East Pakis- reflect the harsh realities of tan since the partition of the the country's eCOnomic plight country; (iv) the damages done and the distress aIld hardslhip by eommunal forces in India caused to the people by the against secular character of ~ Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President 610 discharging the functions of the PTesident India, thereby becoming a con- stant threat to the peace pros- ~~~:~~~~ perity and democracy 'of our 1Irol' ~ ~ if.T ~ rn country; ~ ~' ~ 'I"< ~ (b) that the Address h'lS Sffi11'iI' it;' q;u if f'1"'1f<'lf'1: "I1i 'ITt ;r;'t qmr given to the Hindus of East if<;r?m &I Pakistan at the time of parti- ( 13) ~ it srm;t 1fo'1it lIiT tion that ,the Government . of Lndia will not remain indiffer- ~ ;:p.rr ~;T' ~ ent to the protection of their ~ SI1mM' it ~ ~ ... life, prope!l'ty and dignity has not ·been reiterated; (ii) no a.:f1' \If.,f!lilddl ~ m<: mention has been made of the ~~~~;;'~ steps that axe essential to force ~ it 'fro!' ~ ~ Pakistan Government to do justiee to the minorities in that ~ ~ ~ ~ I ;rtf country; (iii) the decision to (c;) ~ it 'In:C1' ~ ensure the safe transit .of lf11J 'fro!' ~~T It'I¥ ij; ~ Hindus from East Pakistan and their rehabilitatiOn in India has ~ lfI1T a.:f1' f1rof!J1ff ;r;'t it twt been expressed; and (iv) 'T~' there is no mention of the fact ~ that Government propose to raise this issue before the United ( E.) 'In:C1' ~ 'fro!' ~ ;r;'t Nations or the Internation'll """ ij; ~T~ ~ 'I1fur ~ Court of Justice in order to mobilise world opinion against ~ ~~ I the inhuman attrocities perpetre- ( 'I 0) 'fro!' ~ it """ ij; snlT'I ted on the Hindus in East 'R'ff ;r;'t 'iIl'ml1r OfT!! 1fI1i ij; Pakistan; SflfTtr m lIiT 'l;ffiIT m ~ (b) that the determination to ;~:~OO;;'T liberate one-third of the Pak- occupied KaaibmJr bas not been ~~ reiterated; ('1'1) ~ >if1 ij; ~ it (c) that (i) a declaration has ~~~~ not been made fOr imposing the ~ ~ lIiT Ifi/-m, President's Rule in Kashmir by Res not tram the obligations of the contain any satisfactory explana- Colomibo proposals even after tion of the shortfalls in achiev- thslr rejectiOn in toto by China; ing Plan targets, and has omit- and (ii) no declaration has OOen ed to outline the ways in which made ,regardinog the decisiOll it is proposed to resuscitate our not to carry on negotiations so planning from indifferent imple- long China does not withdraw mentation and unrealistic as- its armies from Ladakh and sumptions; also rega.rdi1llg sending Indian (b) that there, is no mention in trooPs upto Macmahon line; the Address of the dire and dis- (e) that (i) there is no men- tressing famine conditions pre- tion of wide-spread damage vailing in Rajasthan and Punjab caused to the rabi crops due to and to the measures proposed to recent cold wave; it also does be taken to alleviate the suffer- not mention of the steps to be ings of the famine striken taken to offer relief to the pea- people of the country; stans; (ii) no mention has been made of the severe economic (c) that there is 100 mention crisis caused due to the co:ttinu- of the need to establish Desert ed rise in priees and neither Development Authority, with a'ny announcement has been extensive powers and ample made about measures for afford- resources, to formulate, pursue ing relief to the people of all and co-ordinate a massi';e pro- categories in the society affected gramme for the economic deve- by high prices; lopment Of desert regions of Rajasthan, Gujarat and P.tnjab; (f) that no indication has been made to end the state of (d) that there is no reference emegency; to the failure of the GO':ernment to formulate and impiement (g) t..'lat no mention has been schemes covering the whole made of the scheme to adopt country with a view to ensure stringent measures to check safe and adequate water supply the activities of fifth columnists in the rural and urban com- in the country; munities, and the need to accele- rate rural electrification pr0- (h) that no announcement has gramme in the country; been made accepting the clear verdict .given .by the people of (e) that there is no Ir.pntion Goa for its merger with Maha- in the Address of the utter in- rashtra State during the ~ adequacy in the a'lailability C1l general elections in that terrI- trained medical personnel parti- tory; and cularly for rural areas, of the steps being taken \0 improve (i) ,that no anIIIounoement has the situation ~ the need to beeri made regarding the setting establish more medical colleges ~ up of a Committee of in the near future and to foster for detennining the cost of hving medica.! resea'!'Ch by allocating index through scientific method." more resources and by aeceJe- (10), ratillig existing activiticos; Dr, L. M. Sln&'hvi: I beg to move: (f) that the Addre3s has made That at the end of the motion, the n.. mention of the failure of tbe !GlJowing 'be added, namely:- ~ successfulJy 10 la:mob a comprehensiVe s11D11- "but regret.- 615 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the Vice-President 616 discharging the functiOflB of the President [Dr. L. M. Sinehvi] a little over a month ago, the ruling clearance ·programme in the Party passed a resolution ~ country; that democratic socialism, whatever it might mean, was its objective. (g) that the Address has made After the brave speeches made in no mention of the ~ that session and grand declarations and increasing regional im- and promises made to our people, one balances in the distribution of would naturally have expected that national economic resources; the Vice President in his Address (h) that the Address does not would touch upon the crucial prob- contain any reference to the lems and indicate what steps the urgent ~ for streamlining G'overrunent was contemplating to administrative procedures in take. It is in this respect th:l t the order to curtail bureaucratlc Address has once-again belied what- delays and to !!horten the red- ever hopes some people might have tape, which give rise to all- entertained about this Government. Tound corruption; In his Address, the Vice President (i) that it does not contain says: any expressions of disapproba- tion and regret that several "In spite of difficulties and dis- countries of the West have com- tractions, we have continUed to pletely failed to understand the move forward towards 'our ob- Indian stand on Kashmir anr.:t jective of a democratic :l:'id so- have taken an unjust stana cialist order at home." unduly favouring Pakistan; This is indeed a bold statement to (j) that the Address makes nO make for anyone in this country. reference to the situation obtain- The c'oncentration of wealth that has ing in Jammu 8. Kashmir and gone on under our planning is well the steps taken to secure closeT known that even the President of the integration of Jammu & Kash- Congress had to decry it. We have mir with the Indian Union; even today heard about the report (k) that there is no refeTeTlce of the Mahalanobis Committee. That to the recent fire at the Heavy Committee was appointed four years EngineeTing Corporation at ago and the report has not seen the Ranchi, the ca,uses leading to it light of the day. It is understood, and the investigations and however, that the report makes, inquiries held in the matter; and according to paper reports, some (1) that nO mention has been shocking revelati'ons on the state of made about India's sports policy our economy. It is said that only 20 and the participation of Indian families control as many as 1073 com- sportsmen in international panies with a share capital of Rs. 352 sports including the Olym- crores and with a grOS" capital block pics." (11) of Rs. 1102 crores. A small coterie representing a fraction of half a per Mr. Deputy Speaker: The motion, cent of share holders accounted for the substitute motions and the amend- 56: 5 per cent of the total value of ments are -before the House. shares and 70 major companies. These Shri A. K. Gopalan (Kesergod): companies had a paid up capital lif Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I am sorry 212 crores. Their market price today to say that the Address of the Vice- is about Rs. 420 crores. Even with- President discharging the ~ of in the 20 housps, one house alone the President is a totally dis'iT"Poi,,- controls 108 crores. The Government ting one. It completely eva des the cann'ot escape the Tesponsibility for rrucial and urgent issues fac;ng the this unprecedented growth of concen- people as well as our eConomy· Only tration during its regime of 17 yean. 017 Motion on AddreBB MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President 61 8 discharging the functions of the President Nearly Rs. 45 crores, that is, 45 per feasible and appropriate regula- cent of the 128 crores given as loans tion of movements, and through by the Government from the tax- credit policies, every effort has payers' money went to these giant been made to prevent prices of .companies. The Life Insurance Cor- foodgrains from shooting up." poration had by 1960 advanced to This is what the Address says. So, these big business houses RB. 92 the address says only of making crores, and on top of it the bulk of efforts. But the Address croes not the advances from the banks went speak about the result of these ·to these big business houses. efforts. Why is it that despite these Contrast this unprecedented e'on- efforts, the prices are rising and what centration of wealth with the condi- are the measures that the Govern- tions of the masses in this country. ment is proposing to take in this re- It is not accidental that the Vice gard? The only answer the Address President did not say a word about has given is: the conditions 'of the masses in this country. The biggest single factor "The stability of prices can only which depresses the living standards be achieved through higher proof the entire people of our country duction to match the rising level is the issue of prices. Even the mid- of consumption." tenn assessment of the Plan admitted This is the refrain that has been sung the rise of 9 per cent in whole-sale by the Government for the last 17 prices. The price riSe has been par- years. There is nothing new in this. ticularly steep since the last budget. Is therl'! any hope that we will have We have heard n'ot only reports but such a super-.abundance of agricul- also during the· discussion in this tural and industrial production as rong House that sometimes in Calcutta the as the present anti-people policies of rice was selling at Rs. 40 and Rs. 45 the Government continue? None per maund. New.papers report a rise whatsoever and, therefore, prices will of 'over 200 per cent since last year continue to rise and the Government in Madras. As far as the· working will d"o nothing about it except sing- class, the peasants and middle-class ing the same refrain. What has employees are concerned, if they socialism got to do with this refrain want to buy the same amount or which every capitalist economist right quantity of foodstuffs and other from the time of Adam Smith has materials, then certainly over and been singing? above the salary which they got last year, they would have to get at least As early as in 1958, the All India 25 per cent more as far as their emo- Congress Committee passed a resolu- luments are concerned in the shape tion and it declared that in order fo of increase in wages or in the shape bring about reduction in prices, it of dearness all owance according t'o was necessary for the State to have the rise in the cost of living. monopoly of the foodgrains trade. The entire trade union m·ovement in the The Bhubaneswar session of the country. as well as the progressive Congre'B passed resolution on demo- opinion even from inside the Con- cratic socialism and shed c'opious gress Party has been demanding that te.rs over the plight of a large section the wholesale trade in f'oodgrains of society as a result of this price' must be taken over by thi! Govern- rise. But what does our Vice Presi- ment and private wholesale trading dent S,y about this in order to bring must be iIIegalised. Even this de- down the prices? The address says: mand has 'been turned down by the "Through larger release of Government. Why? I want to kr>ow foodgrains from Government why this h~ been turned down when stocks. the setting up of addi- this is an accepted policy of the tional fair price shops wherever ruling Party even from 1958. 619 Motion on AddreBB FEBRUARY 13, 1964 bll the Vice-President 6zo discharging the functions of the President [shri A. K. Gopalan] The simple fact is that despite the poly. And if even a step like nation- tall talk of socialism on its lips, the alisati'on of banks is not taken and G'overnment ~ actually building 'they only talk about it, certainly capitalism in our country. Inflation there is no question of taking any and rise in prices is a specific weapon action to curb monopoly. by means of which increasing slices On the one hand pril:es are rising, from the common people's share of for no fault 'of the workers. As far profit are forCibly taken away from as the workers are concerned, Gov- them in 'order to make the capital of ernment refuses to accept its obliga- our big capitalists. The Government, tion to see that the real wages of the because it is interested in this capital workers are not depressed by accept- formation, dare not take this power- ing the principle of full neutralisa- ful weapon away from the hands of ti'on of the increased cost of livin,;. our big capitalists, that is why it re- What about the public sector? Even fuses to lift its little finger in the in the public-sector industries it re- matter of holding the price line. fuses to accept the principle of link- There have been promises for the last ing up Dearness Allowance with th.: whole one year that the Government cost of living index. Big working- is trying to hold the price line. But class actions have taken place in the the price line is holding the Govern- country in the last six months and ment and not the Government is hold- they are also c'ontinuing to take place. ing the price line. It is a warning to the Government against continuing this attitude, and I Similarly, everyone knows that the think the Government will certainly banks play a vital role in b'oth spe- take note of these actions of the culation and in accentuating the con- working classes that are going on in centration Of wealth. The monopoly the country. houses who control the banks utilise The Government refuses to elimi- the money for making big ~ nate the exploitation by the already out of the people's sufferings to their entrenched British and other foreign own industrial concerns. So. that is capital. They offer them liberal the reason why rightly the' demand concessions, guarantees and new became powerful for the nationalisa- opportunities for fresh big inflow. tion 'of banks. This demand for na- What is the effect of this on 'our eco- tionalisation which was first put for- nomy? As a result, foreign invest- ward by the Communist Party has ment, especially British investment, now become more widespread. Even has doubled since independence. Not some sections of the Congress Party only that. There ,are also the joint have raised it, and even in Bhuba- companies. There Is also increasing neswar it was raised. Yet Govern- penetration of f'oreign private capital ment refuses to accept it. Why Does and collaboration with Indian big Government refuse to accept it? In business. It is also encouraged and the absence of theSe two vital steps backed by the State. Such collabo- it is futile to talk of reducing the dis- ration agreements in the private parities in income or preventing the sector sanctioned by the Government growth of monopoly. When the G'ov- were 'only 71 before 1958. But now ernment refuses to take the e'.emen- it has increased to 1,442 by 1962. And tary stePs necessary for preventin,; today it has become impossible to get the further growth of monopoly, all a licence before one gets proof 'of its talk of s'ocialism is nothing more foreign collaborati'on. If there Is no than an atteIl1l1t--to put it bluntly- foreign collaboration it is impossible to humbUg the people. Because, the to get a licence. most important thing necessary, if we As far as agrarian reforms are con- talk of socialism, is to curb the mono- cerned, the Bhubaneswar ses&ion of &1 Motion I1Il Addre.rB MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President 622, discharging the functions of the President the Congress has promised the com- commendation of the Planning Com- pletion of land reforms within two missionas well as the President. years. But I want to point out to And now it is increased. The Presi- them that in 1958 at Nagpur the AICC dent gave the assent to the Bill only passed a resolution directing the after two years. And now for the State Governments to complete land new Bill the President has hastened reforms during the year. What was fo give his assent within a week. its fate? Now, six· years later, at Anyhow, whatever legislation had Bhubaneswar the ruling party pro- been passed, when it was implement- mises completion of the land reforms ed it was implemented not only by within two years. How can it be the Communist Ministry but also by done? The N",tional Development the Congress and the other Coalition Council also has passed a rerolution Ministry. While it was implemented to that same effect. The Planning there was a judgment by the High Commission in its Mid-Term Apprai- Court and the Supreme Court, and in sal has admitted that despite land order fo see that the obstacle created reforms legislations and ceilings, by the High Court and the Supreme landlords have been enabled to evade Court was removed, Parliament had the ceiling, with the result that no a Select Committee and the Select land was available for distribution to Committee said that the obstacles the peasantry. As far as panjar 'or would be removed. It was at that waste lands are concerned, crores time that the State Government. get- and crores of waste lands or fallow ting the opportunity that the Bil was lands have not even today been dis- not there, wanted fo change the Bill. tributed, and in Andhra there is a So it hurried through within a month ~h going on for reduction of and wanted to see that the old Agra- land tax as well as distributi'on of rian Relations Act that was there was the panjar lands. This is because of removed and this Bill was placed. the way in which these legislations If there was any defect in the old are framed and implemented. Act the State Government had a right to change it or plug the lo'Op- The only effective legislation on holes. Instead of that they rushed I .. nd reform was the one passed by the hurriedly through this, taking away Communist Government in Kerala some of the most important rights of in 1959. What has happened to it? the peasants and agricultural For this crime the Congress Party lab-ourers. They rushed through that in alliance with the dark forces 'of Bill and passed feudalism led a violent movement it. against the Government, and the ~ n the face of this action of the Central Government obliged the ruling party how can anyone in the movement by removin2 the Govern- country take seriously at its face valUe ment. And today the Kerala Con- the declaration of the Congress Party gress Government has replaced the that it is going to implement its pro- Communist Government's land reform mises of real land reform? What has legislation bv q new lel!islation which happened in Kerala really makes one takes away' many of the rights that understand that if there is any real had been conferrecl on the peasants. land reform legislation giving the According to the Planning Commis- maximum benefits to the peasant sion there are three imp'ortant things labourers and others, when the ruling that should be considered as far liS partv gets an opportunity it will take land reform legislation is concerned. that·· opp'ortunity and undo what had One is fi/Xity of tenure; the other ;5 been done even bv a non-Congress reduction of rent; and the third is Government. . distributi'on after the ceiling. As far as this is concerned, the old Bill As long as this land monopolv and fixed a fair rent according to the re- feudal and semi-feudal fetters' can- 623 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the Vice-President 624- discharging the functions of the President [Shri A. K. Gopalan] tinue, all talk of overcoming food and withdrawn. Nothing :short 'of this· agriculture sh:ortage will be a mirage. will be acceptable to the people. The Government .looks at agricultural production only as a problem of As regards the taxation on tobacCD fertilizers and !better agricultural last year, it is not only the small techniques, manure, etc. It refuses peasants who cultivate country to- to see the human element in it. It bacco who have gone out of .. mploy- refuses to see that as long as the ment, but even the workers in the· actual tillers of the soil d'o not have cigar factories are going to be un- a stake in agriculture, their creative employed. In every State in India, energies cannot be mobilised. It also the cigar factory managers are rt:- refuses to see that as long as they ported to have said that if the taxa- continue to be crushed by the burdens tion on tobacco is not reduced, they of taxation, high prices and also debts, will have to clOse down the cigar our agriculture cannot provide the factories, and if that happens there capital needed for both our agriculture will be a lot of unemployment affect- and industry. So long as the Govern- ing the workers working in thes.. ment persists in this attitude, t,he cigar factories. country can never reach self-suffi- ciencv as far as food and agriculture In order'. to hide this fact 01 grow- are concerned. ing concentration' of wealth and of continuing land monopoly which have' Nobody can dispute the fact that been brought about by the policies· the tax burdens on the people have of the Government, the Congress· become intolerable. I am not going talks of democratic means to achieve into the details about it, because if its aims of socialism. Actual:y, many you examine from 1951 to 1962, the of its policies have nothing to do with last budget, you can see how much democracy and are actually nega- percentage of increase was there tion of democracy. For instance, I "very year as far as taxation on essen- may point out that even after fifteen tial commodities like kerosene, months after the border war and tobacco and other things is concerned. cease-fire, the state of f.mergency Every year it was increasing, one still. continues. The declaration of can see. The Finance Minister him- emergency was used primarily agam- self recently admitted that Rs. 200 st the workers and the pensanls. We crores every year cannot be colleMed. had discussed it in the House. Noth- Whose fault is it that Rs. 200 crores ing was done to curb their activity, every year cannot be collected? It but over a thousand people were de- is obviously the Government's. It is tained without trial. Even today, for the Government to explain to the when I am speaking, two ~ of people why for their inefficiency and this House from Tripu"a, Silr! ~ inability to collect Rs. 200 crores ratha Deb and Shri Biren Dutt, the every year they should penalise the bel'Oved leaders of the people of Tri- people by imposing m'ore and more pun continue to be inside jail. Why burdens on them. Already peasant is it that when all the othHs have struggles and satyagraha have taken been released, these two people arc place, as I have said, because the land kept inside jail? What justification tax is very high and in many States have Government flat to keep these struggles have taken place for th(" two people inside jail? Scores of reduction of the land tax. Just now, pe'ople continue in deter,tion in Tri- the satyagraha has entered the second pura, Assam, Maharashtra, UP and week in Andhra Pradesh. In de- Bihar. When the workers fight mand that all the new impo-ts im- against the monopolists, the DIR are posed last year at least should be immediately resorted to for detaining 625 Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) bll the Vice-President ~ dischllrging the functions of the President hundreds of them in jails as happen- democracy wh'ch is functioning in ed in Bombay and Goa. In Bombay this country. I do not know whether and Goa while there had been a the Vice-President discharging the working class struggle, so many functions of the President does not people were detained under the DIR. know of want is happening in some Even ten days back, in Bombay, so parts of India, especially in my State many detenus were released, but as of Kerala, for instance. In KeraIa, the sO'on as they were released, and they Minister in charge of law and order were coming out, Government re- himself has broken the law, and even arrested them. That was a disres- the case against him was not regis- pect to the judiciary also. They had tered for two months. He misused released the persons, but those per- his authority, and he got the district sons were immediately rearrested. collector to issue a statement. And Yesterday, a newspaper reported that he has been allowed to continue still many workers had been detained in Government. There is no security under the Dm in Indore in an in- for the lives and properties of even dustrial dispute. Thus, the state hf the Congress MLA's belonging to the emergency continues only beclluse ruling party. Government want to prevent the common people from fighting against In this connection. I would only like the attack of the monopolists and to point out the editorial that was speculators. It is clear that there is written by Mathrubhoomi. and what no justification whatsoever for the this Congress paper had said about continuation of the state of emergen- this thing only the day before yester- cy. Therefore. :r request that the day. The Mathrubhoomi, dated emergency should be immediately February lIth, writes as follows: lifted, and these arrested should be released immediately. ''TIle Peechi aff&ir did create considera!Jle commotion all over There is now talk also of the Con- the country. FolloVl1ng this the stitution (Eighteenth Amendment) demand that Chacko should re- Bill. After illegally detaining a num- sign was strongly voiced by cer- ber of people, Government propose tain newspapers and many p';blk without any qualm of conscience to mfn. W"I! now learn that Chacko legalise the illegal acts in the teeth harl offered to resign fr ~ the of the Constituti'on and its authorita- ·Min:stry but the Chief Minister tive interpretation by the Supreme Shri Shankar felt that due" a ~ Court by the proposed eighteenth was not necessary. 11 this is true, amendment to the Constitution. This thE'n, attitude of the Chi"r ~ raises an issue which is of fundamen- ister is not compatible with any tal importance for the citizens nf this democratic traditions.". country. This shows the scant respect that Government have for the Then. it fL.i"iher ~: Fundamental Rights which are para- ded before the world as an example "It was in this situation that of our democracy. Government shnuld Congress President Kamaraj arriv- '!'rivandrum to enquire in not be allowed to escape the con- ed in sequences of their illegal acts, and person the State of affairs in when the time comes, I am sure Par- Kerala. It is only with utter liament must reject this new shame and regret that orre ean re- attempt at legalising the patently call here the unseemly rowdyism exhibited by Chacko's followers illegal acts. both;;t the airport and at the MLA In his Address, th"l! Vice-President quarters. It is certain that those hu at many places talked about who witnessed these scenes must 62,7 MotiDn on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 bV the Vice-President 628 discharging the functions of the President [Shri A. K. Gopalan] have wondered: 'What kind of de- I do not want to go into the other mocracy is this? Where will it all editorials, because th-ey ma;y have lead Us to?". been written by other papers. But I would only like to point out that the Sir, it is not a communist paper which whole OPposition walked out in the has written this, but it is widely cir- Kerala Assembly; the whole Opposi- culated Congress paper which has tion had stated that a certain Minister written this editorial. And in ends had forfeited the confidence of the the editorial by saying that the Preci- people. Further, a memlrer belonging dent take up the role which the Minis- to the ruling party inside the Assembly ters cannot. went on fast, and many Congress Another widely circulated paper in MLA's joined him. And what did the Kerala, namely the Kerala Kaumudi Government do? Th-ey did not even has written th-e following in its edito- respect the public opinion. After all, rial. I am reading out these things what does democracy mean? Demo- because they represent the public cracy means respecting public opinion. opinion in the country. The Kerala But we find that public opinion has not Kaumudi, dated th-e February 8th, b-een respected at all. It was not mere- writes as follows: ly the opinion of the united opposition, but even the members of the ruling ''What the events that took party went into action inside the As- place in Trivandrum the other day sembly saying 'Either I must di-e or proclaim is the geaeral feeling of this Minister must go because his insecurity of life and property- action is bad.' Even after all that, we should this Ministry be allowed to find now that th-e Congress ruling party continue in power. If for no other has said that the portfolio of the Min- reason, this Ministry has forfeited ister may be changed and that if that its right to administer the State is done, things will be all right. Whaf by this single incident alon-e. What does democracy mean if there is no right has this Ministry, believing respect for public opinion? Whm the as it does in methods of violence in papers in the country, when the whole the pursuit of its aims, which has Opposition in the State Assembly, and so well demonstrated that it is free when even a big cross-section of the from any responsibility to Congress Members themselves say like protect the life and property of this .... even elected representatives of the people, to continue to rule over Shri Tyagi (Dehra Dun): Is my hon. this State? That this Ministry, friend discussing the politics of tlu! willing as it is to achieve its aims party or the Government? by the resort to the methods of Shrl A. 1[. GopaJan: My hon. friend violence and threats, will continue can speak what he wants when he gets to rule over the State, including his chance. Now, let me have my say. during the period of the coming I know that my hon friend will be elections is a thought too frighten- wounded when I say all these things. ing even to contemplate. Is it at Shrl Tyagi: As a member of the all conceivable that free and fair elections in an atmospher-e of party. peace can even take place under Shri A. It. GopaJan: When a mem- this Ministry which has demons· ber of the ruling party goes on a hun- trated its utter contempt for all ger-strike inside the Assembly, it is yalu-eg of truth, decency and fair- not a wry small thing. The· next day play? If anyone believes ti,;;.t it when the Congress President goes there is possible, he is indeed living in a we find that three thousand people fools' papadise.". come and sta.ge a demonstration saying Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President 630 discharging the functions of the President that Chacko should not resign; they Shri Tya.ci: On a point of order. It went before the Congress party office, may be made clear whether in the dis- and also entered the MLA's quarters cussion on the President's Address, the and entered his room and did all these action of a State Government or of any things, If these things are not taken member of the ruling party can be dis- note of, then I do not know what will cussed, Only the factual policies of the happen. of the Government are under discus- I might say that as far as Kerala is sion. Will my hon. friend relate these concerned, it has been not the interest stories to thase pOlicies? of the nation or .the country but the interests of the ruling party to perpet- Sbri A. K.. Gop&Ian: I am not discus- uate their power, which have reigned sing any individual. I am discussing supreme, and it is because of this that how democracy is functioning in this country. Democracy is represented so many things have been done in this State. The Communist Government by public ~ the Opposition had been dismissed unconstitutionally as well as of the ruling party. But there. Then, there was the question of t'hat is not reflected in what is haPPen- corruption charges against the Chief ing there. Minister and '''~ Minister. Instead Shri A. p, Sharma (Buxar): What of having a judie','! inquiry in other your ruling, SirT places, there was absolutely no judi- cial inquiry at all. Now, we find that Shri Nambiar (Tiruchirapalli): The the whole country says that a Minister Congress Government in Kerala must has acted badly, and the public opinion be dismissed-that is the ruling. is there in the country against him, and Mr, Deputy-Speaker: There is no even then, because the elections are point of order. coming, in order to perpetuate their power, the ruling party does not want Shri A, K, Gopalan: There is an- him to resign. other thing, This is about police verification. I do not know about other With such things happening, how can parts of India, but what is the state of We talk of democracy? If the Minister affairs in my State? We discussed this in charge of the Home portfolio and matter two years ago in this House. other Ministers behave like this, what After election, a number of people, will be the position? In a place called about 2,000, employed under the Cen- Kottikulam, near Kasergod, about 200 tral and State Govt!rnment, are out of persons have left that village. The employment for the last three-four police ran riots in that village. There years. After every election, there is a was some fight between one man and police verification. Everyday I get let- the police. For that, they went there ters. I have sent them to the Prime from house to house and beat ('very Minister and other Ministers saying man and woman. According to the that this is what is happening. I can papers, those who go to the Fishery understand this happening in a govern- school, the students, are given identity ment which is not democratic, Here a cards SO that they may not be beaten. man has worked for 12-13 years and he If there is murder, the people respon- has a good reoord. Police verification sible for it will be punished. But if also shows that his conduct is very the police go from house to house and good. So if any charges afe levelled beat everyone, man, woman, and create against him, he must be given an op- terror, what is to happen? The result portunity to de1'end himsel. is that hundreds of people leave the place. These are the things happening It was only 15 days ago that the under that Ministry. People take the Supreme Court gave judgment about law into their own hands: the police those who had been discharged in 1948 do as they like. under the National Security Rules in 2045 (ail LS-7. Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the Vice-President 632- discharging the junctions of the President [Shri A. K. Gopalan] In the matter of foreign policy, the ~ railways. If charges are brought President has done well to reassure the against a person for which he is to be policy of non-alignment. But of late, discharged, he should be given an op- on many issues, particularly those portunity to state his case. The charg- affecting colonialism, the Government e., must be investigated by a tribunal. seeIns to be sounding a discordant note. H he is indisciplined or inefficient, In South Viet Nam, the USA is openly that must be gone into by that body. intervening with arms. It shamelessly But here what happens? One fine engineered a coup about four months morning hundreds of people are told ago when it wanted to change the Gov- that their services are no longer re- ernment, thougb that government was quired. They cannot appeal. They a satellite. Within three months, it en- cannot go anywhere. They can only gineered another coup. We have a res- go to the Supreme Court, which it is ponsibility there, becauS€ India is the not possible for everyone to do. This Chairman of the International Commis- is how things are happening so far as sion for Supervision and Control in Kerala is ocncerned. I do not know Viet Nam. Yet we do not raise our about other States. voice of pro!1:!st gainst this blatant and Shri Nambiar: Still worse. open interference by the United 8hri A. K. Gopalan: In the face of States with force of arms in the in- all this scandalous state of affairs, in ternal affairs of S. Viet Nam. the face of this continuing emergency, Many countries of South East Asia in the face of the Government's at- including Ceylon, hav-e raised their tempts to legalise its unconstitutional voice of protest against the proposed acts, in the face of the negation of ,the patrolling of the waters of the Indian right to agitate and to fight against the Ocean by the US Seventh Fleet. It is attacks of the monopolists and specu- well known that this extension of the lators of the common people, all this patrolling is an attempt by the USA to talk of democracy is sh-eer hypocrisy. intimid"te the freedom-loving coun- It is an attempt to raise false issues and tries of S-E Asia and dictate from a continue its policies of helping the position of strength. Yet our Prime monopolists. Minister has refused to raise his voice Coming to Kashmir, the present state of protest against this open intimida- of affairs there is V'ery deplorable. The tion by the United States on the ground regime of Bakshi and the present re- that we cannot do anything about it. gime of his nominee, Mr. Shams uddin, We know he Prime Minister raised his alienated the sympathy of the people voice of protest againet the military of the State. Corruption in the State pacts entered into by the USA by is universally talked about. It is well some countries of Asia. At tnat time, known that the people cannot utilise we were certainly not more powerful ~' methods to improve their than we are now, but that did not pre- standards of living. Many a time, at- vent the Prime Minister from coming ten tion has been focussed on the nature out against these moves of the US. of the regime there by people from Why this timidity today? There is a Kashmir as well as from outside. The feeling that our Government has ac- Government has refused to heed these tually acquiesced in the US move re- warnings. It is necessary to root out garding the Seventh Fleet. This is re- corruption there and guarantee the peo- inforced by th-e fact that at Bhubanes- ple'. democratic rights SO that they war, the leadership of the ruling party may be enabled to struggle for im- did not allow any reference to this proving their living standards. ~ question in its resolution On foreign all this, in my opinion, it is necessary affairs. Newspapers are full of reports that a broad-based government should that as a result of all this, our pres- be formed in Kashmir. tige in Asia and Africa is suffering. Motion on AddTeBs MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) btl the Vice-President 634 discharging the ~ 01 the President Why this slipping away from the well as by hon. friends of the Com- ftrm positions we took up only a few munist Party and of the Congrpss )'8Irs ago? Has it got anything to do Party, but to me both appear to be sail- with the fact that we look to America ing in the same boat, although pretend- more and more for economic aid? If ing to belong to two different opposite so, this will spell disaster to our inde- grouPs and creating a kind of atmos- pendent policy, internal and external, phere of mock oposition and fight also and India's prestige abroad will suffer. between themselves. I do not want to say anything about 8hri Tyagl: But you are sailing in the subject matter of th'e debate that a submarine. has taken place yesterday and today. 8hri Ranga: This Address does not We devoted one full day for it and breath any optimism at all. It looks today there were questions and ans- as if it is drafted by a Government wers. It has be.en made clear in yes- which is suffering from jaded spirit, terday's debate that the riots in East from spiritual depression and poUtkal Bengal were inspired. by the Pakis- bankruptcy. They have been in power tan ~ The Government for such a long time that they have with its reactionary, communal and taken power for its own sake, as if it chauvenistic ideology must be held is their own birth-right, and they do directly responsible for this terrible not seem to be anxious to justify tragedy. What happened in Calcutta whatever they do before the people. and other places is also shocking, be- Whatever is possible for them to say, ca USe it strikes at the very root of de- they treem to think, should be enough mocracy and secularism. What is to pass for the President's Address. necessary today is to tackle the ques- That is how the President's Address is tion of rehabilitation. It will have the before us. Why has it happened? It support of all sections of people in this is SO because they have been in power country. for such a long time, and they have I regret to say that on all these im- not found any effective challenge t() portant issues facing our country, both their power. They have come face t() external and internal. the Address face with failures almost on every keeps total silence. It is, in fact, an front, and they do not at all see a way attempt to camouflage the Govern- out of this failure, but at the same ment's present policies by repeating time, they are not afraid of the cvnse- the man tram of democratic socialism. quences of their failures. Hence this This cannot fool the people for long, Address that has been presented to and the rising prices and the struggle both Houses of Parliament by the of the people against these policies Vice-President on behalf of the will, I am sure, be a warning to the President, rather acting as the Presi- Government and compel the Govern- dent. ment to accept a change in these poli- What is OUr position in the world? cies immediately. With all sense of responsibility I say 15.00 hrs. that we find ourselves more isolated today t'han eVer before, and our poli- 8hri Ran,a: My hon. friend Shri tical and international opponent and Gopalan has taken the Congress to enemy, China, is improving her posi- task for not being very sincere about tion. A great statesman once talked what they said regarding democratic of one precious year lost. I personal- socialism. My hon. friend s.upports, on ly feel thOse words apply to what has the other hand, what is known as ~ happened during last year. This pIe's democracy. Whatever ~ Address does not say anything at all ness there is between people's demo- "8s to wh'at this Government pr()poses cracy and democratic socialism can be to do, or has done, in order to re- studied and explained not by m'e so cover the lost territory on the Hima- Motion on Address FEBRUARY Ill, 1964 by the Vice-President 636 discharging the juncticms of the President [Shri Ranga] layan front. They may say that isolated. We conte'sted that statement they have never conceded any right at that time. Events have proved at all to the Chinese to remain where that we were right and he w.as wrong. they are, but by effiux of time, the China has improved. her position. It Chinese are likely to gain ground. is proper for the Government to As they themselves h'ave stated, in re- realise the significance of the recog- gard to various other matters, by nition of People's China by France. It efflux of time their own rights have has world repercussions. A number become strengthened. Have we ever of African countries were till recently taken any step, fiIrst of all, to take French colonies. They have become charge of Longju and to go beyond, free. Th"y were contacted by the to go beyond Chushul on this side Chinese Prime Minister. When he anywhere-{)ne step at least in order was go;"/ through the African coun- to establish our right, as a precedent tries, our Embassies as well as our to recover the lost ground? We have press correspondents there were lurl- not done so. On the other hand we ling us into complacency saying. he have given an assurance privatel;, or was not cutting much ice. Actually. at least we have given those people he has paved the way for the recogni- who are interested in these matters to tion that he has obtained from understand, that we are not going to France. First of all he went to can- trespass into the so-called no-man's- vass all these Afridan countries, as land that has come to be demarcated many of them as he could and then there as a result of China's with- he achieved this big result, and this drawal. I take very serious objec- result is going to have its repercu.q- tion to this procedure of the Govern- sions all over the world, in regard to ment, to this failure of the Govern- SEATO as well as NATO, and that. r ment. consider to be a great accretion of strength China. Compared to that Secondly, they talked about the to what is it that we have been able to stepping up of defence proauction. achieve? Nothing, except that we They have been saying that ihey are mention here a number of the digni- going to reach a target of Rs. 100 taries who visited India, and certainly, crores worth of production. What our Government has woken up and that Rs. 100 crores is in terms of our developed a new deflnition of digni- defence materials and equipment and taries by including in that term h~ abilities, we do not know, in view of astronauts also. It is a wonder why the rising spiral of prices and infla- they did not also regale us with stories tion and in terms of real equipment of the visits made by some of the re- itself. They would like to keep it all presentatives barring the President a secret, let them but where is the and the Vice-President, whom they assumnce nhat our Government has have sent to East African countries. really made the best possible use dur- Why did they send them, on what ing the last one year of the money basis, with what credentials, except that We have praced at their d:sposal that they belong to the inner coterie and the people who have offered their of their soci'al entourage? Beyond services for defence, in order to that, what achievement have they got effect this accretion. We have had to their credit? Is Ceylon more no assurance at all, not a mention in friendly with us or Burma, except this Address. for that visit recently by one of their Thirdly, China, on the other hand leaders? Even in Malaysia what is has improved her position. One of our position? What is the stand that their spokesmen, fortunately now out We are taking in regard to the fight or office, was saying some time ago that is !!oing on between tbp. commu- that it was China that has come to be nists and others in the former Indo- Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President 638 discharging the junctions of the President China area? What ia the positive Governments in India are concerned-· stand that we are able to take 1Il State level or Central level. Only order to strengthen the democratic yesterday, we put a question and the case of all these people in these areas? Home Minister was not prepared to answer. The Leaders of the National What ia the kind of protection that Conference did not seem to be very We have been able to give our own popular; the National Conference is nationals in all these countries, itself in tatters ·though it controls the. Burma, Ceylon and Malaysia? More Government and it does not hold its. than that, what is the fate Of all own in Jammu or in Kashmir. It.was those thousands of Indians who have the People's action committee or what- been affected so very badly-some ever they may call it which maintain- of them have been murdered, severai ed law and order for a number of days people's properties were sequester- among the ordinary people. It is ed--in Zanzibar and other places wrong to think that all these happened also in East Africa? We !rave not only because of the unfortunate hap- been told what our Government has pening regarding the prophet's posses- been able to do and proposes to do sion. So many other things had 'con- in order to USe its own good offices tributed which reached their culmina- with all these V'B.'rious independent tion at this happening. Why does not Governments that are coming into the Union Government take some dras- shape in Africa, to protect and pro- tic action? My hon. friend Shri Shas- mote the interests of our Indians tri tried to bring about some peace there, who went over there just as there. Why not they take charge of they have gone over to various other the administration there for at least countries in a spirit of adventure, six months and help those people to in order' to develop those countnes achieve a more democratic leadership and also find employment for them- and have a less corrupt administration. selves and become rich and prospe- As long ago as 1958, speaking from rous. There is not a word here the Congress Benches, I had the about the steps we are taking to honour of saying to this HoUS'e: protect their interests and promote their interests though in some partB "So far as Kashmir's internal politics is concerned, I would like of India our economy is closely some thought to be given by the inter-linked with their fortunes. hon. Prime Miruster and also by What steps have we taken to mini- the Government as to whether we mise their sufferings? cannot possibly do some thing in Kashmir is now being diSCussed m order to bring into existence an UN. When it was taken to the UN, organised party or leadership who asked our Government to offer which would be co-operative, to hold a plebiscite? Now they say: which would be able to win the we are not going to hold a plebis- co-operation of all th'e groups and cite. Why? By efflux of time. Well parties. I do not know whether 'and good. They have put the whole there is any such possibility but of OUr country in the wrong box. You an effort ought to be made because may give a number of explanations otherwise we hear only of one but you have commited that blunder. party and W'e do not hear of any You want to retrace that blunder. other party." WeI! and good. But what steps are As a result of the one party rule in you tak:ng in Kashmir to see that our country, the same horrible conse- the people are assured of a better quences are likely to follow in our Government a saner and less corrupt country, if our people are not able to Government Corruption seems to have throw up an effective opposition to be become the order of the day so far as able to control the ruling party. There- 639 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the Vice-President 641) discharging the functions of the President [Shri Ranga] tore, I say that the time has come for during the present crisis in sPite reorien·tating our policy towards Of the certificate given by the tcasJunir. How long are we going to Hame Minister this morning. Every keep Sheikh Abdullah in jail? Even one talks of the prevalent corruption • life convict convicted for life impri- at the topmost levels. What sort of IIOnment has an opportunity of being corruption? If I happen to be the released from jail after ten years. Chief Minister or Minister or some big Ilbeikh Abdullah has been in jail for guy and if I do not like such and such nearly ten years, except for a short a person, I have ways and means by intel"val of 2-3 months. My hon. which I can get those people hounded friend and others have been talking out, almost murdered and even but- about abuse or power given to Gov- chered and yet escape. This is what III'Ilment under the Preventive Deten- is happening in Government. I do not tion and the various other Acts. He want to mention names though I have is one of their leaders and why should the names before me. Some of these he' be kept in jail for so long? If he complaints are coming to the Home were to be released and given an Ministry and for a number of years qpportunity in the present circumstan- nothing has been done. Several times ae. to find his own side, it is quite when asked whether any action has possible for us to have two effective, been taken against such Ministers or democratic parties, one having a majo- Chief Ministers or officers, the Home rity and the other having a minority Minister had to say: We are not able ar they may be able to form a people's to take any action. Later on thev democratic coalition Ministry or a attempted to take party action here national ministry so far as that area and there but We are not interested fa concerned. Therefore, I urge the in party action. We are interested in immediate release of Sheikh Abdullah. the constitutional manner in which the Central Home Minister functions from 8hri Bade: There will be more here to assure the social, economic and trouble. political freedom of those people who Shri RaDga: Trouble will always are opposed to those in authority. It lie there. The Oppos.ition has to create happens that there are many people trouble for the ruling party in a demo- within the Congress itself who have cracy and democracy can function well had the courage to resist this kind of 4Il11y when all the leaders are given vindictive spirit and personal egoism and along with the Opposition people, ~ opportunity to make their appeal to the masses. they also resisted such things so that there could be sufficient safety and Ia there any law and order in our freedom for all the people who had the cauntry! My hon. friend Shri Gopa- guts to resist this kind of Mussalonism Ian just now gave a lot of detailed in- and Nazism. Is there such an assu- formation about Kerala. It was said rance today! that a Minister was able to take law Shri Tyagi: There is. tnto his own hands. There was an- dier Minister in my part of India Shri SurendraDath Dwived,.: Even who used power in his own way, in rebel congres!rlTlen have been detained. IUs own individualistic, personal, egoistic and vindictive manner. The Shri Kanea: The time has come for Supreme Court had to give a judg- the Home Ministry to take efl'ective ~ The Supreme Court gave -1>eps. aaather judgment against another NoW', they are bringing an eighteenth Cbief MiIlister in Punjab. There am-endment to our Constitution becaus,' ill then a MBlUtry in West Ben- the Supreme Court has questioned gill., whose faLare is writ IUie their rieht to do 9u{!h arbitrary j:!,;"t-I Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) btl the Vice-President 642 discharging the functions of the President as they have been doing during the last agriculture, while this ~ one or two years, in detaining so many sword is being held over his hea6? people. They have fallen fOUl with Not being satisfied. with it, they are,' the Supreme Court. Thank God there going to bring forward this new ' is a Supreme Court. The framers of amendment to the Constitution. M7 .. our Constitution were foresighted and hon. fril!l1d Shri Gopalan was talking courageous enough to provide this about satyagraha against the land re- third wing of our democracy. Because venue enhancement. Yes. That kind· in this so-called Parliamentary demo- of satyagraha movement is going to be .cracy, it has become possible for the organised over the whole of India.. executive and the legislature to com- Why? Because these Agriculture bine and then begin to do things in Ministers and Finance Ministers at the lIUch a way that the liberties of the State level as well as at the Union level . people could be endangered. Under have become mad enough to go agam.t these circum!rtances, they thought that all the assurances that have been given there should be the Supreme Court in by the British Government and earlier order to question their right and by the Moghual and other people also, authority and test alI that they do on and begin to raise the land ·revenue, the anvil of the Constitution itself. not according to the particular S~ Therefore, my hon.friend the Prime ment records or reports over a period Minister, from the very beginning, al- of 30 years-without any change over most the next day, I think, after the that period-but from year to year Constitution was passed, began to say whenever they like. And to what ex- that the Constitution is not sacrosanct: tent is this done? When the British there is nothing sacred about it; it can were here, they used to put a ban on certainly be altered. themselves, beyond 183j4th per cent enhancement. If you look into the records, you will be able to find justification for But here are the people who call what I am saying. Not once but many themselves Parliamentary democrats times he has said so. He has proved naw, socialists on top of it, and they it to the hilt by all these amendments want to raise it to 100 per cent. In to this Constitution which they have some cases, the Ministers h~ brought forward. admitted that it would even go up to 800 per cent. In this manner they They are talking of the failure on want to deal with the very foundation the agrarian front. How could there of the socia! economy of the peasant be success on the' agrarian front when masses of this country who form more this Government goes out of its way than 70 per cent of the population. to place before this House the Consti- No wonder their agricultural front is tution (Seventeenth Amendment) Bill failing. over the Joint Committee of which you have the honour to preside? They When the agricultural front fails, have brought forward that Bill which how could there be any success of threatens the security of the self-em- their industrial front? They have ployment anr1 the land-holdings not come now here, giving the names of a only of the al'riculturists and the pea- number of projects. Why? It· ill sants but also the agricultural workers, something like my going to my father artisans, etc., without giving them any and asking, "Give me a house." He right of a reasonable compensation, NYs, ''Yes, the hOlLge is coming later without any right of going in appeal on; but now you look at the beams, to the Supreme Court. Where is anY look at f his hard-earned money in is ready," he says. You may go aM Motion on AddTess FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the Vice-PTesident 644 dischaTging the functions of the PTesident [Shri Ranga] live there tf. you like. All other con- lopsided 'and centrally oriented, and veniences will be found in the five fit only for a totalitarian State and elements! It is in this manner that not for the kind of a democratic they have brought in and provided federal State that we have. for their planning here. What is the fate of the State Gov- They have listed a number of things. ernments today? They have been con_ One can also list a n U.ln ber of their verted to the status of District failures also. What about the output Boards. Each State Government- of mill cloth? Here is an extract from can you believe it-has got its own the report. For instance, in 1962-63, it senior civilian representing that Gov- was 4,921 million yards against 5,100' ernment before these great Secretar- millions yards in the preceding year. ies of the various Ministries and also Year after year, it is the same. About their Ministers. They hold separate sugar, it is 2.3 million tons now, meetings of these M.Ps. and go on beg- whereas it was 2.7 million tons in ging us, all parties, to put in a word 1960. Because of the slow progress in for their Governmental projects. Here 'the first two years, it is feared the is a big bundle which I have received the third Plan will end with a big from the Andhra Pradesh liaison offi- shortfall in many industries like steel, cer. My hon. friend was talking pig iron, aluminium, industrial machi- about the big business. These Gov- nery, automobile, fertilisers, paper and ernments have got their Public Rela- cement. The steel output in 1965-66 tion Officers. The State Governments will be of the ord'er of 5.8 million tons have their-not High Commissioners against the target of 6.8 million tons, but-Public Relations Officers; they Pig iron, 1.2 million tons against 1.5 are rcs and lAS officers. The State million tons; nitrogenous fertilisers, Governments have been reduced to 500,000 tons against 800,000 tons. A that plight. We raiose Our voice shortfall of about one million tons in against it. We want all their powers the cement target is also exp'eCted and to be resuscitated and given back to in paper and paper-board also a similar them. And this plight has come about fate is going to overtake them. One because the same ruling party is can go on like that. It is no good sim- ruling over the States as well as here. ply cataloguing a number of projects Therefore, it is stewing in its own and saying, "Oh, look at the great juice. The State Governments are achievement of ours." being degraded in this fashion, so much so that, as you know, some of What is this achievement? Have We the Chief Ministers are prepared to not achieved such things earlier? The come here as Ministers of State. This British also used to do it. But at sort of thing has got to be ended. whose cost? At the cost of the people. Here are my Communist friends who So I say that this planning has supported the Government in their got to be reoriented in such a way Plan, and now they complain against that they would give priority to the new taxes and additional taxes. water-supply, to shelter, to food, to Therefore, they want those taxes to clothing and to schooling. These are be withdrawn. I want these new the most elementary things. Instead taxes to be withdrawn. True, I want of that, they want me to feel happy the kerosene tax to go; the Gold Con- about these three great steel project. trol Order also to go, and several other taxes, especially the ta'S on This Government warns us against diesel oil to go and also So many other "big monopolists". Who ·are the excise duties to go. But all this ad- monopolists? Is not that officer who ditional taxation has come in the is controlling the N.ational Steel Cor- wake of their Plan. Their Plan is poration a monopolist? Is he not Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the ViC€-Piesident discharging the junctions of the President controlling an investment which goes date. Why did we do it? Because we beyond Rs. 600 crores? My hon. friend have begWl to feel not only because Shri Gopalan said, "Beware of all this is emergency, but also because of these people; But how much paid-up the national consciousness, of our sense capital they have all got? Only Rs. of Wlity that so far as foreign affair;; 200 crores h~ Over them all, we and defence are concerned, as far as have got the Central Government as it is possible, we should try and see well as the State Governments and that those people who become incum- the legislatures also. But here are bents of those Ministries or posts those great statist monopolists, neo- should be agreeable to all the political Mussolinis, administwtive Mussolin- parties. At least to the democratic is, bureaucratic Mussolinis, who are parties, if not to my friends here who at the head of these great State en- will never be reconciled to any demo- terprises. Where is anyone to whom cratic way of life. We should also we can appeal? The Public Accounts make it possible for them to function Committee! Ask my hon. friend what here easily and effectively without kind of control he has got over them. being worried about their OWn seat. The Estimates Committee! Ask them also how much power they have got. Sbri Tyagi: Thank you; a good Ask yourself and various other peo- idea. ple also who are presiding over the various Select Committees what Sbri Ranga: The time has already power, what strength and what con- come, as I said Isat time, when we trol they have got over ali these Cor- should have a separate Foreign Minis- porations. Very little. If I were to ter apart from the Prime Minister. As accept the advice of my hon. friend God would have it, it has now become Shri Subramaniam, the Parliament necessary for the Prime Minister to be- will have much less control than gin to realise the wisdom of what I what they have at present. Thank have been saying since 1949 that he God, there is still a Railway Minister should divest himself of the responsibi- and a Rail way Ministry coming here lity of the Foreign Ministry. If he with a railway budget. We have an does so and if he thinks of appointing opportunity of catching hold of him somebody, I am not going to ask him whenever he goes wrong and taJcing to consult us. But let him keep in him to task. But we have no such mind which person, which choice, opportunity of taking other people to would be most agreeable not only to task at all. Not a bit. All hose peo- his own party and to the various ple have been furown up now as a re- groups within his party-one group of sult of Stateism. We are opposed to his party has become a projection of it. True; we do not want monopolists the communist party-but also to the even in the Private sector. Therefore, other democratic groups. There has Jet us have necessary legislation to been some talk unfortunately that all control the powers and vagaries of those people who are grouped around these monopolists, whether they are him 'have been anxdious to please him in the State sector or in the private and to persuade him to think of some- sector. It is in that fashion that we body who is not very far from his have got to work. own so-called political backgroWld and who is not to much divorced from his Finally, I want to make one point. own personal affections. I wish to give When my hon. friend Shri Chavan this warning in advance and I hope stood in Maharashtra for a Lok Sabha he would desist from accepting any seat, one of my local leaders wanted to such bad advice. stand there. Whether We win or not is another matter. My people certain- Shrimati Reau Chakravartty (Bar- ly were very keen on contesting that rackpore) : Why not mention the election, but we withdrew our candi- name? 647 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 1964 bit the Vice-President 648 \3i discharging the functions of the President Sbri BaDga: It is not necessary. I heard too much of democracy and all wish to warn him and the Govern- these th!!Olies. We have also seen how ment to desist from it, because it is the .. minds of these two speakers are easy to go on trying to please the de- working for cross purposes in -themsel- migod of the day forgetting national ves... I do not know whether the two interests. But I hope there are suffi- speakers were prepared to .speak some- dent number of Ministers as well as thing or they were so much obsessed other friends of the Prime Minister on with their dislike for the Congress that side who have the moral courage that they did not see logic in what to be able to tell him and prevent him they were saying. For imanee, my. from accepting such a bad advice. immediate predecessor, Shri . Ranga, told us that he asked the Home Minis- My hon. friend, the Prime Minister, ter to take charge of the law and ordl'l" has fallen suddently iII. We are all situation in the States. He asked, why very sorry; I am personally sorry. We not the Central Government exercise have worked together for more than Ituthority over the States and ensure 30 years in fair season as well as bad iaw and order and safety? At the !leason. We di1fered very violently same time, he says that the State Gov- but yet we also learnt to like, love and Hnments have been reduced to the respect such other. He was good ~ of district boards and have their enough to express similar feelings :iaison officers. He wants complete au- about us. Therefore, we want him to tonomy for the States. How the two reeover as soon as possible. He does go together, I do not understand. (In- not believe in God, but I do. There- terruption). The conception of demo- fore, I pray to God that he should re- cracy requires that we must have res- cover very soon. pect for other opinion also. That is the crux of the whole thing. The At the same time, I give him the leader of the communist party said warning that it is time for him to pre- something about Kerala. There is no- pare his party to go into the opposition body from Kerala here to represent the and help us, the democrats in the other side of the thing. We do not country, to go to the other side; and kno':' whether the facts are correct or he should be prepared to sit in my not and still we are called upon to pass place, as the leader of the opposition, our judgment and proceed On that to help us, assist us and guide us. It basis. Is it democracy or something is only in that way that democracy else? can be made a success. If he does not like a parli8Jllentary system in that Here probably the mistake arises out manner, let him at least think in terms of their notion that the party and the of the Swiss system wherein there will Government are the same. In fact, be scope for all parties in the commit- they are not the same in democracy. tee government. The committee gov- Copious references were made to the ernment will be responsible for the Bhubaneswar Congress and various whole of the administration. If it is party conferences. Fortunately they not too late for him, let him pay heed have got an opportunity to refer to our to my advice. If he does not do so, he conferences because they are open will go the way of all those great men ones, But we have no means of re- of history who have gone with a very ferring to their own conferences. bad epitaph Slari Trap: They are held in purdah. Shri Mallatall (AnguI) Sir, the two speeches which have preceded make Shri Mahatab: So, how can we meet me wonder whether we are using the them on their own ground? So, thi. is oppM'tunity liYMI by th. President's ,.,<>1 the platform where we have to Addl"e'iS pr"l)e'rly or no'. We have ~ PRrty resolutioas and party 649 Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President 650 discharging the fu.nctions of the President manifestos. Here we have to per- order or not. But to talk of the State form a constitutional work. The Governments here cn this platform President has delivered an Ad- seems to me not quite proper for this dress which contains the policies and simple reason because none of Us has programmes of the Government of the felt aggrieved by anything done by the day. That Government no doubt is a representatives of the State Govern- party Government. Whatever happens ments. We do not know th", facts. This in the party conferences, it is their is an opportunity for having anything look-out. We are not here to refer to published. But there is no means of party conferences. They cannot ex- verifying whether those facts which pect any reply to thOSe references be- are stated here are correct or nOt. That cause I do not know what is passing should be borne in mind. Whenever on in their conferences. we say something, as democrats, we should Ireep in view that another judg- Shri S. M. Banerjee (Kanpur): Both ment is possible. There may be an- are given in newspapers. other version of the whole thing. Un- Shri Mahatall: So, it is very wrong less that mind is developed, I do not to refer to those party conferences on think we can work out properly par- this occasion. Of course, opposition liamentary democracy. parties have got plenty of opportuni- Having said that, I come to the tips and plenty of other forums--tht-ir Plan which has been so much own newspapers for instance--where criticised by Shri Ranga. Of they can criticise as much as they like. course, their opinion is well known. J haVe nothing to say about that. The)' They do not like this Plan. are perfectly t-ntitled to have their But they have not yet produc- own opinions about the resolutions ed a substitute Plan. They are per- which we have passed. It is open to haps hoping that a substitute Plan them to oppose them and call them re- will be produced by the Prime Minis- actionary. But on this occasion they ter when he comes to this side, the cannot expect a reply. From whom can Opposition. They are perhaps hop- they expect a reply? I do not know. ing that the Prime Minister will give An HOD. Member: Not from you but them the opportunity to formulate from the Minister. another substitute Plan. It is a curi- Shri Mabatab: The 1I1inister is no- ous way of thinking. To think of the Jeader of the majority party to form body in the party. TM ~ is something different frr.m th,. party. It the Opposition is something curious. is not the communist government I do not know the particular logic in where the party and the government it. That shows how the thinking pro- cess goes. This is a curious way of are the same. Here it is a ~ Government altogether. It is a demo- thinking. I would respectfully sug- cratic system. That system has to be gest to Shri Ranga that for the sake understood. Democracy has got a wide of a healthy opposition which is need- mt-aning now. It means everything ed in parliamentary democracy there now. There is people's democracy, must be consistent and logical think- bourgeois democracy and so on. But ing all round. Unless you do that you in the democracy which we are follow- will not have followers. You may ing here, the crux is that the party is have individuals as followers ,but you different from the Government. Her<' cannot have a large scale followinc. the Government has to be criticised or That is the difficulty. When yOU supported on the merit. at their pro- have no followers yoU cannot have a posals and their work. That is mv majority here. Therefore, in order first submission. . to have a majority toIlowinc there must be consistent and locical Shri Tyali raiaed a point of order. I thinkinc all round. TIIo,ical thinkiaC do not know whethl!l" it is a point of will lead us nowhere. 6S1 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the Vice-President 6Sz discharging the functions of the President [Shri Mahatab] Now I come to the Address itself. take a realistic view of the whole As the House well knows the Address thing. The fact is there that the has been prepared in circumstances Chinese are stilI in occupation of which are well known. Probably some parts of our territory and we there was much time or much thought are committed, the Parliament has given to It. The custom has been to taken an oath, the Government and give the Address in order to give the all Members of Parliament and the Parliament an opportunity to know people are committed, to the expul- the mind of the Government as to sion of the Chinese from our terri- what they are proposing to do. Here tory. The question is, what steps are is an Address which has stated all being taken. Some reference should facts frankly, and I must congratulate have been made to thOse steps the framers of that Address for the saying that such and such steps are frankness which they have displayed being taken in that direction. Of in stating all the tacts as they are. course, it is not possible for the But they have not given their mind Govemment to lay bare all the facts. as to what is proposed to be done on But some indication as to the steps those facts. that are being taken in that direction Take, fOr instance, this emergency. shOuld haVe been given. I would most humbly submit to Shri Similarly, a referenCe has been Lal Bahadur Shastri whom, on this made to the midterm appraisal and occasion, I welcome most heartily for the job which he has undertaken, that the drawbacks. Of cour,e, I am not the people should not be made accli- replying to thOse who do not agree to the Plan. matised wirth the emergency. That ~ the fundamental ibasis of all adminis- 8hri Ranga: Which Plan? This trations. If people get acclimatised Plan has failed. with an emergency, at the time of real emergency nothing will happen. Shri. Mahatab: Even in a Plan That is the danger. Marly others which will be made by Shri Ranga have said, many statesmen have IBid there will be some reverses. Even that an emergency should not be in our domestic plans we sometimes continued for a long time. If it has meet with reverses. In any plan, to be continued, -then there must be whenever reverses take place that some visible signs of the existence iof does not deter us from thinking that an emergency and there must be the Plan is there. Therefore, merely some preparations to show the exis- saying that we are wrong, t1)at tence of that emergency. That fact everything is going wrong or sorne has to be taken into consideration. other things are happening is not There is no doubt that the Chinese enough. Some reference should have threat is there. Reference has been been made as to the steps proposed made to that in the Address itself. to meet these reverses and the reasons But that threat also should make us why the mid-term appraisal has dB something. What We do should shown some drawbacks should have be visible so that the population -been there. What is being done to wilI know that there is an emergency meet that challenge should have been and something is being done. I do mentioned. Then we could have not accept the argument of Shri Ranga known as to what are the steps that that something shOuld Be done im- are being taken. FOr instance, pro- mediately to throw out the Chinese duction in several spheres has gone and WI' "should go to Longju or any down. In agriculture and in other other place. These are all talks spheres the production is not satis- which are not realistic. We must factory. What is going to be done 553 Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) bll the Vice-President 654 discharging the functions of the President about it? Had these points been provocation. A firm attitude, in my mel1tioned in the Address it would opinion, should be taken about Pak- have enabled us to judge the whole istan. Pakistan should be finally told thing as to whether rt;h.e thing is going that if they go on doing like this in the right direction or not. some other steps, in the words of the Probably, becaUSe ~ the attitude Prime Minister, will be taken. Those which the Opposition takes these other steps include many things. We Addresses are written in this manner. must come to a decision that we will Whatever criticism the Opposition not tolerate this kind of provocation. To call upon our OWn people to be con- offers, it is so desultory and 10 destructive that I do not think any- trolled and at the same time to do body in charge of framing an Address nothing to stOP this provocation is unrealistic. That is my humble 0PI- of that tyPe would care to bring before the whole House an details. nlon. I am a man of details. I am, there- Then I come to these various pro- fore, precisely stating as to what are jects. There have been references to the precise steps to be taken. various projects. With regard to one Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: What project I wrote to the Planning Com- about the Governor's AddreS;i in mission. I wrote to the Deputy Chair- Bombay during your time? man of e", Planning Commission and Shri Mahatab: That was a detailed other members Of the Planning Com- Address, yOU should know. mission. I say it here. on this platform also, that whenever projects are Shri Ranga: He did not draft it. undertaken the advice given by the His Ministers prepared it. Public Accounts Committee in 1955 Shri Mahatab: Similarly, there is shOUld be bome in mind. The econo- the question of Pak.istan. Of course, mics of the project, the estimates of we have spent several hours over that the project should be very closely debate. The Home Minister gave us examined, worked out and then only the final reply only this morning. But the project should be started. If you I would very humbly ask both the start the work in anticipation of these Home Minister and Shri Shastri whe- things, ultimately some wrong things ther it is enough to say that our peo- may be done and the project may ple here should keep themselves under prove to be uneconomic. I think It control. That is very good. That has is for that very reason that in ~ to be done. Every citizen of India is of these projects the cost of produc- entitled to have safety and protection. tion has gone UP. I am very glad that Law and order must be. maintained the mover of motion, Shri Sachindra in this country. At the same time, Cha udh uri, referred to the cost of pro- what is being done to PUt an end to duction. He has sufficient knowledee the provocation on the other side? of commerce and industry and out of That alsO has to be stated. Nothing his knowledge he referred to the cost has been stated so far as to the steps of production. Why is it that the cost taken to stop the provocation there. of production is going up? An esti- If anybody asks me as to what is my mate which starts with, let us say suggestion to stop that provocation I Rs. 50 crores, Ultimately ends in Rs. 300 {!an only tell him this. It has almost crores. There cannot be 80 wide a ~ proved during the debate here gap between the original and the final and also from outside-I·have lome estimates. Why has this happened? personal knowledge of that-that h~ The Public Accounts Committee in was engineered by people from 1955 gave the advice that the econo- Pakistan. There is no doubt about it. mics Of projects sbmld be properly That being so, that provocation Will worked out and PKamined before the always be there. How to stop that work is started. Many things are 655 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the Vice-President 656 discharging the. junctions of the President [Shri Mahatab] started in anticipation. I am partleu- position, how do yOU except families larly referring to a project which is to go and live there especially when proposed to be started in my consti- water is not available and the yield tuency. According to the preliminary is very poor? Therefore, that project report about 6 lakhs of people anr should also be very carefully ex- going to be displaced. amined. Sbri Tyagi: What is the name of It is no use saying that large that project? forest areas can be reclaimed and Shri Mahatab: Tikkerpara project. people can stay there. That is all poetry; it is not a realistic statement. Shri Surendranath Dwlvedy: But I had discussion with Shri Khanna the Minister says that detailed inves- on this subject. He is trying to do tigation has to be done and the repon his best; there is no doubt about it. is yet to come before any action can These are the real problems wluch be taken. are facing the refugees who have to Shri Mahatab: I hav.e received the go there. It is very easy to say in letter from the Minister today that Parliament that all the refugees detailed invest: gation has not been cornmg from East Pakistan wi!! done. That has to be done. No work directly be sent to Dandakaranya. _hould be started before that is dOBt:. But where is the accommodation, food Otherwise, it may land us in dil!\- and other amenities for them? How culties, as it has done in the case of will they live there? These things several other proj«ts. should be very closely thought of, Shri Tyagi: Has the Centre ad vane because they are matters of detail. ed any money fOr this project? AlI general talk should cease. As we are in the 16th year of our inde- Shri Surrendranath Dwivedy: ~~ pendence and in the m'dst of the Shri Mahatab: I now come to the Third Plan, all general talk" has to Dandakaranya Project, which is vitally disappear. We are in the midst of connected with the problem which we execution of many things. Therefore, were discussing yesterday and today. we must be very detail-minded per- The Dandakaranya Project is intended sons. So, we must closely examine to accommodate the refugees from all the details and then come to Bengal. Now, it has been stated by conclusions. Unless the details are Shri Atulya Ghosh, Congress leader of gone through and discussed. alI our Bengal in a press statement that the schemes will go astray and what is work of that project is not satisfactory. not desirable will happen. He has openly stated in the press that drinking water is not available there. 15.33 hn. My information is that sub-soil water [SHRI TBmUMALA RAO in the Chair] there is so much below the surface Coming to foreign policy, Shri that tanks and wells cannot be sunk Ranga said that our foreign policy easily. So, the main problem is to supply drinking water to the peopll' has landed us in isolation. Factually, who liVe there or who go there. it is not correct. HI' complained and asked why China was recognised by Secondly, UN! yield in the reclaim- France. Does he expect India to go ed land is not up to the mark. I am and beg of France to recognise or told that the production per acre in not to recognise a particular country? Dandakaranya is 0I11y 9 maunds, How can India go and interfere in whereas in Ori'lSa, where the pro- the internal aftIairs of another COUIl- duction is the lewest in India it is try? How can we ~ any partiCUlar about 25 maunds. When that is 1!he country not to recognISe China? That 657 Motion on AddTess MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) bll the Vice-PTesiden1 658 dischaTging ~ Junctions oj the PTesident is not Our look-out. So far as India We cannot say: let them suffer. We is concerned according to me, our cannot afford to say that We have Co, foreign policy has been very success- to do somethillg to relieve their fUl and it has settled. dawn. By sufferings. These Indians who were "settled down" I mean that we are in very good positions are now beinl in a settled place and we are not displaced from the new]y-Independcnl moving here and there. Asian and African countries. That has created a new problem for us. So far as friends are concerned, We cannot blame those Governments. think we are havine them at the time Neither can we blame our own people. of need. There is nO Qoubt about it. I am very sorry to say that one of the Then ho was say.ng tnat we should representatives of Government has have llllluenced the policies of criticised the Indians overseas. Burma. Ceylon and otner countries? Therefore there was some ~ Are we thinking in terms Of the old in Bomb;y of that statement. There imperialism? What are we thinking is a feelillg that the Government of about us? I am not abl .. to appreeiate India lS not sympathetic towards his argumoot. These are independent those people. That feeling is wrong. countries. He also referred to East The Government of India has full Africa, Zanzibar and other countries. sympathy for those Indians and what- We have all the sympathy fOr those ever is possible should be done to Indians who are being displaced from mitigate their distress at the present those countries. They are being moment. This matter should be displaced because of the new inde- taken UP with the new Governm'!'llts pendence which those countries which have been formed in thC'se have achieved. countries. It cannot be taken UP at I have my oWn personal experience other levels. It is only in a friendly in this matter which t will narrate. and amicable way that alJ these Wha:> J was the Central Minister hpre, problems can be solved. the Prime Minister of Burma caml' to Shri U. M. Trivedi (Mand.aur): see me At that time, Madras hand- Mr. Chairman, when I heard and ~ loom cioth was mainly being sold in read this Address of the Presidel't, Burma and Burma had stopped its it struck me as a very incongruous import. J took up this matter with piece of document. We have the Burmese Prime Minl!!ler and told been having theSe Addresses from him "Look here, you sl ould aIlow the time the first Parliamen t came OUr handloom cloth 1.0 go thpl"e; into existence. This is the first time otherwise, there will be so much of we haVe taken shelter behind the unemployment". He immediately provisions of artiCle 65 for delivering replied "Dr. Mahatab, did yOU not stop this Address to the Houses of ParlIa- British cloth from your country when ment. This is a peculiar document you were fighting for your freedom? in which the President has not We are doing the very lWIle thing." dentified himself with the Goverll- Then, after prolonged negotiations ment. There are three difl'eretlt they agreed to take yarn from our identities visible from this document country but they refllsed to take viz.. the President, the Vice-President manufactured goods. Similarly, the and the nation. The Government Burmese Government displaced does nO! come into the picture at all. Madras and Orissa people who had It is a very peculiar document. their lands there. These problems Generally, the Address of the Pre,i- arise when colonies becomes inde- dent is always mpant to be the add- pendent. ress by the Government through ~ At the same time, the.e probll'ms President about the legislative piece are the problems Of our·own people. Of work to be undertaken during th e 659 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 by the V ice-Presideni 660 discharging the functions of the President [Shri U. M. Trivedi] open the doors of every form of ensuing session. I will not USe a employment in India to all. But can disrespectful word because, after all, the Pakistanis say so? it is assumed to ,be coming from the Shri Had Vishnu Kamath: It President but I will not hesitate to is an Islamic State. say that this piece of document is a drab document. Shri U. M. Trivedi: Yes, it is an Islamic State and beeal.lse it is an The peculiar :lJture of infiltration Islamic State the natural corollary that has been 6.,;llg on into India tor follows that those who are non- the last nearly !j or 6 years has not Islamic must be slaughtered, butcher- been mootioned in this whole docu- ed, killed and driven out. If that IS ment. Why have we closed our the Islamic State. we must all grId LIp eyes to this !llnitration? It is the our loins and try to fight out the protest to this infiltration which in menace that is there. It is a menace my opinion, has been the ~ ot for the whole world; it is an inter- the present riots in Pakistan. The national menace which tries to riots were engineered for a long time destroy and commit genocide upon and when they found that there is a whole community of One crore and some sort of opposition here to this sixty lakhs. Seventy lakhs have been infiltration the riots were undertaken. destroyed leaving ninety lakhs only. It was engineered and sponsored by If we cannot do that. we mu.t be the Government of Pakistan. This ashmed Of calling ourselves a big argument of reaction for the commis- nation. Is there any country which sion of a praticular offence with can say that? Here even the little reference to a particular article of choice of a citizen holding a franchise rl'>pect for the Muslims was an eye- in India. even that is now being wash. an absolute eye-wash. One has ~ bv Pakistans. Has it been On relation to the other. It was brought' to the notice of the han. sponsored in a manner which can Home Minister here Itlhat Pakistani only befit the mad persons who are nationals have stood for elections and controlling the destiny of Pakistan. have been elected also? And such persons have been elected fOr whom 16.00 hrs. deportation orders have been passed How far has this infiltration pro- by the District Magistrate and by the ceeded? Have we ever looked into Chief Ministers of the States concern- this aspect? We have not been able ed! Yet. those people have not gone to giVe the figures as to whether there out and they get thems.. lves eiected. are fiVe lakhs who have infiltrated Can there be such a thing in any part Or whether there are ten lakhs or of the world? Can any country say thirty lakhs who have infiltrated. this? Do you think that we are But infiltration has been going on and doing this simply by virtue of the We havp not been able to check it so fact that We chose to call ourselves far. When we attempted it. a hue tolerant? No, Sir, it is not tolerance; and cry was raised that we are driv- it is the complacent nature on our ing out the Muslims frpm India. Can part where we close our eyes and dO we not ask a simple question of not watch the danger t.hat is lymg Pakistan to show Us a single big ahead ot us. This infiltration that is officer belonging to the Hindu Com- going on is a source of very great munity or to the minority commun;ty danger to us. The danger to Assam in the whole of Pakistan? There is IS patent; the danger to Tripura is not a gingle big al)pointment in India patent and the danger to Rajas- which cannot be held by anybody ~ than is patent. I may give irrespective of caste, creed or religion. illustrations of Rajasthan. More We, as a secular state, have thro."m. than 2,000 Pakistani nationals 661 Motion on Add·ress MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) bll the Vice-President 662. discha7'ginll the functions of • the P7'esident are there and are not moving out China attacked us. It is this fear of from Jalpur even after notice. Mor" war. They thought that we are all 1..'J.an 60U are there in l:lhilwara and cowards Jiving in this country and not one is moving out. More than that these cowards will never fight; GOO are there in Udaipur and nor one so, push them back. And we have is moving out. Ajmer has got an been pushed back. influx of infiltrators and that ,is going How many perEDns have been killed on. in these riots? Have we ~ an What about the borders? Time estimate of it? It was very kind of wlthout number our borders are raid- an American reporter who was able ed; cattle are lifted; men are killed to tel) us that hundreds and hundreds and we are not able to do anythmg have been killed and have been found b,' way of retaliation. What we do dead in one hospital in Dacca. But i. that we send a strong protest note. can We give an estimata of how many were killed in Dacca! in the v lllnges S~ Hari Vishnu Kamatll: Very near about Dacca, in Narayanganj, strune_ In Barisal and in Khulna? Have we Shri U. M. Trivedi: What il> the got an estimate? Were they only .trong protest note? How many 10,000 or 15,000 or 50 ,ODD? Children, time., shan We protest? Thel e must women, old men, young mcn--all be ~ end to this protesting. We were butchered. Such a butchery ·must make up our minds that no has never been noticed in any put protest but siaps art' ~ If of the ~ And here we ~ Who 'We cannot ~ slaDs, ~5 will not ate we? 11 is our kith and k'n who help us. There has heen enough of have been killed and we are sitting these protests. here and sending protests. What else May I ask a question to my.elf and do we do? We control ourselves. to this House? Arc We tne only Let us control ourselves. I am also people in this world who are afraid one of them who feel that it is an of war and for our lives, Or are there ugly aspect that for the sake of these other people also in the world who who have become mad in Pakistan we are afraid for their hves and wan t to shuld become equally mad and tcrure save their lives? Small co:mt.ries or do wrong to innocent persons. like Israel, Egypt. Iran and even No, S·r; that is not my idea. But Cyprus stood uP. with the net result we must not be afraid to punish the that there was no war. Nobody likes guilty. We must be prepared for ..... ar. l!:ven the mightiest United that eventuality. Why do we want Socialist Soviet Republic was not able to hand over Berubari and have to put its bluff through beoause 10.000 more to be killed Rnd handed Kooeddy called the bluff. Nobody over for being killed? There is no ..... ants war, much less Pakistan. But Question of parochialism here; there ..... e are the onlv persons who think is no question of communalism h2re. in terms of ''There will be a war, a Communalism is in the heart of the "World war and the world will be governing party. They still go on destroyed" as if we ar" the only thinking in terms of Hindus "nd custodians of the happiness of the Muslim.. This idea of Hindu and world and nobody else. Why should Muslims shOUld go. But the promise "We be afraid? Why should we not that we gave at the time of partition call a spade a spade and tell Paki>- of th's country must be upheld by us. tan. "So far and no farther; w'! .are Was S~ Patel an ordinary man? not going to tolerate the infiltrations Was h~ promise made by Pandit that yOU are carrying on"? That hal Jawaharlal Nehru when partition been the reason why we had to took place was the promise 0:1' aD bang down our heads in shame when ordinary man? Jawaharlal it waa whet 2045 (Ai) LS-a. 663 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13,.1964 bll the ~ 664 dischllrging the ;functions of the President [Shri U. M. Trivedi] said, "I made a promise to name this we making a farce of this trial or are COWltry Nagaland"; therefore the we rcally sincere about this trial? suggestion made by my han. friend, The sins committed by Sheikh Shri Kamath to name it Naga Abdullah were such that two or three Pradesh wa& turned down. Even the witnesses were enough to get him promise to keep the word 'land' was m the neck. Why that particular maintained and it was so mamtained procedure has not been followed and because it came from the Prime why is he being allowed to carry on Min'ster, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru. propaganda and why is he being This promise was made on the floor furnished with funds to carry on of this House and outside to the whole propaganda passes my h~ country at large to the minority. The sooner this trial is over, the better namely, that your life and liberty wilJ it is for this country. Unfortunately, be protected by us everl when there in our country, we have felt that be partition. Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel anybody CRlI threaten us; Phizo can said, '''We will rush to your succor if threaten us; Ayub Khan can threaten you are troubled." What were those us; Sheikh Abdullah can threaten us. words? Were they empty words? Anyborly who does not love thle Are We going to eat and swallow country has got the right to threaten those words and keep quiet about it? us and we humbly bow down to thOS& We have simply to hang down our threats. heads in shame that the promises What prevents us from droppinl: made by us, by a gn>at nahcn are not kept. What faith can those out Article 370 now? A reasolutio. peopde put in our assurance that we can be passed. Those people are pre- will settle them and bring them to pared to pass the resolution. The Dandakaranya? Those are not words Assembly is prepared to pass th.. which will carry any solace to them. resolution. Let us say: we have committed a mistake and let us abide Then, Sir, this Address is entirely by the' mistake. We had no bYsiness mute on the question or Ka,hmlr. whatsoever to say that the plebiscite It is unfortunate that a particular lS to be held. But since a mistake incident has happened there. But has been committed let us abide by have we realised the dutv that we the mistake. Even that mistake can. have to do by KaShmir? .Are we «oing be rectified by getting this1'esolution to consider even today that in passed that Article 370 '-shall nC) Kashmir there is Muslim majority longer apply to Kashmir. Why and Hindu minority? If Article 1 of should we not do it? The question the constitution of India applies, the of the refugees would have been whole of the territory of Kashmir is solved long ago. Thousands and an Indian territory. What right have thousands of acres of land are lying we even after 15 years, after two or fallow. Hundreds of crores of rupees three general elections have becn have been spent by Kashmir without held, to say that . Kashmir has not deriving any benefit whatsover ex- decided to joiJl us? How long can we cept that of hatred and allowing a continue this friction? How long can handle to Pakistan to always· carry we keep this Article 370 over our on propaganda against us. heads? Prof. Ranga was tellinl! us that we should take a very realishc Our propaganda machinery hae view. In his realistic view, he says miserably failed. We cannot even tell that Sheikh Abdullah should not be the truth. Although Pakistan can keJlt in prison. I for one would carry on propaganda with untruth, not like any man to be detained we are afraid of telling the truth to in prison without crime. But arc the world. This is what I have notie- 665 Motion on Address MAGHA ··24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President 666 discharging the functions of the President ed in the foreign countries. Wher- 1.0 have the signalling system install- ever I had an opportunity of going, ed. What does this show? It shows J found this one thing. It is not that there was no foresight, and we possible for a single hand, for any ~ not realise six years back what Member of Parliament, to carry on was to be done and what ultimately propaganda. It requires a huge we had to achieve. Government machinery far the pur- The same is the story everwhere. pose of doing it. One talk with one D.C. engines are being built, but A.C. officer Or one talk with one Minister traction is being laid out. Then, we or one talk with a particular Sec- realise that D.C. engines will not work retary will not help the propaganda on A.C. traction, and, therefore, we that is to be carried out in favour of must have A.C. engines; then we say India. It is an agonizing fact. that the others are having A.C. Coming nearer to the affairs of the traction. and, therefore, we must country, I a.k: Where are we? I do alsa have A.C. traction, and, not want to enumerate all the short- so, A.C. engines must be built falls that are there in our country. and the D.C. engines must be I for one have never understood this Pll t in the stores. Is this planning? obsession of having a Plan with an This planning without foresight is no investment of R.. 8300 crores which, planning. I say, has been drained down the Therefore, I say that there mllst be gutter. We have not been able to some re-orientation about this idea of realise anything. Plans or no plans, planning. Then, let Us take the case We would have still got the various of production. Agricultural produc- projects put through. It does not tion has gone down. The production requ're any Plan. It may require of cereals has gone down; the produc- planning; it may require an estimate; tion of wheat has gone down; the pro- it may require a foresight to carry duction of rice has gone down; the on the progress of the country. But production of sugar has gone down; why have this Five Year Plan busi- the production of steel has gone down, the production of fertilisers has ness? Why have this Planning Com- gone down, and sO on. How many mission and why haVe this Planning things can I enumerate here? Minister? What is all this for? This COUld have been carried on even Shri Hari Vishnu Kamath: Corrup- without the Planning Minister or tion is up. without the Planning Commission or Shri U. M. Trivedi: The only thing without these so-called big Plans that is going up is corruption. It is where money has been wasted. What ever on the rise and it is ever On the is lacking entirely is foresight, increase. Whom to point out? Very recently, I had occasion to go Just a little'while ago, SlIri Ranga along the railway line to Moradabad. was prais:ng our Supreme Court, and It was contemplated to build a he was hapPy that there was the double line there. Once, one type existence of the Supreme Court. I of sienalling was carried out. Then, belong to tbe Supreme Court Bar, and 1here was another type of signalling I a Iso praise the existence of the carried out, and then, there was a Supreme Court. But what has it third type of signalling carried out. brought about? Look at Part III of Three types of signalJing were carried the Constitution, dealing with Funda- out there. For the first type, about mental Rights. Article 13 has no Its. 60 lakhs were spent; that Rs. 60 force. Article 14 has no force. lakhs went into water; then another Article 16 has no force. Article 19 Rs. 120 lakhs were spent; that also has no force. Article 32 has no force. went into water; then, another Rs. 200 And Article 31 has no force. What lakhs are going to be spent in order is this Constitution for? 667 Motion OIL Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 btl the Vice-President 668 discharging the functions of the President Shri Surendranath DwivedT: The is coming up and we shall discuSli it emergency is there. iater on. But I may point out that 8hri U. M. Trivedi: Article 31 has today in this country, there are places been taken out, article 16 has been in Orissa, in Andhra Pradesh, in your taken out, article 19 has been taken constituency as also in my constitu- out and article 14 has been taken out, ency. where for a distance of 150 and then the Supreme Court exists. ~ you cannot reach any railwaT What are those rights actually? Not- station at all; sometimes, you have to withstanding the Supreme Court. here go about 200 miles, in order that you is a mighty Government which does may get into a railway train. What not feel ashamed of bringing forward is all this progress for? Sometimes, a validating Act. As soon as the the Railway Mi,,;stry talks and says S~: Court prcno'.mc". a judg- 'Ours is a commercial undertaking'. ment that this is a colourable piece of At other times, it says 'No, no, we are legislation, or that this is a wrong also a public utility concern.'. legislation, or that this is a legisla- Shri Surendranath DwivedT: The tion which is ultra vires up comes the Railway Minister is not here. What mighty Government which says 'All is the insp:ration for my hon. friend right, we Shall validate what has been to refer to the railways? invalidated .... 8hri U. M. Trivedi: One DeputT Shri P. K. »eo (Kalahandi): Shame! Minister of Ra:lways, whom I know, 8hri U. M. Trivedi: Very recently, I n·amely Shri Shahnawaz Khan is came across a caSe where Rs. 45,000 here. So, I can talk about the rail- had to be realised from one man. ways. My hon. friend has forgotten When it was found that the particular him, but I remember him. Act did not provide for the realisa- Mr. Chairtnan: There is a railway tion of that amount from him by Gov- budget and there will be a separate ernment, and when the defect was occasion for discussing it. found in the Supreme Court, imme- 8hrl U. M. Trivedi: I know that it diately, a' retrospective Act was en- will be coming up. But then, the acted. For the sake of Rs. 45,000 can President's Address is also meant for a Government rush like this? Is this it. Unfortunately, when we are dis- a Government of the rajas or maha- cussing about projects, we have not rajahs or Thakurs or Nawabs or what discussed about any project relating else is it? to the railways: \'I'lly have we kept An Han. Member: It is Wajid Ali quiet? The project must be there. Shah's Government. Look at the map, draw the line and tell the people that 'railways will Another Hon. Member: It is the come here to serve you'. That also Government of all. is lacking. I will not touch more on 8hri U. ~ Trivedi: Why do they the railways because very SOOn all wan t to crea te this type of Govern- opportunitv is coming ior me to ex- ment? It is a Government which POSe the ~h administration of the validates invalidated laws. railways. If we get an opportunity of looking Now I come to the postal depart- at the railways in our country, we ment. Have we progressed in this say that we have achieved a lot of progress. But what is the progress direction? I have received a letter which says that in a village called that we have achieved? Look at the total mileage of the railways. Harsol, letters do not reach that place even tram six miles in eight Shri Surendranath DWivedT: The days. How ~ will this state of railway budget is coming up shortly. affairs continue in our country? We Shri U. M. Trivedi: I know that it do not know. Yet we haVe got the 669 Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) by the Vice-President discharging the

lit, Jo.. • • I functions of ..- , the President complacency to say here that we are the Hindu community? Reaction is going up and up. I respectfully sub- always there. Our law recognillel! mit the Address is lacking in the true provocation and says that under cir- picture of the country which is be- cumstances of provocation, even com- fore us in the year of grace 1964. mission of assault is excusable. It is One thing is very patent. This a very good thing that in India al- emergency is continued in the coun- though there was provocation, it did try. Why is it there? Is it continu- not spread far and no great mischief ed only to authorise the making of was done. But somehow when you laws without bringing them before cannot fight with the enemy across, Parliament? Is that the only func- you always want to beat your own tion for which the emergency was child. created? The emergency was pro- 11i:f ;Jfl'fT ~: if ifQ: m;:rr ~T ~ r claimed to meet the Chinese menace. You tell the child not to go there. But what has the Chinese menace to You cannot go and fight the enemy. do with making rule 125B? I do not That you cannot do. If you cannot know What has the Gold Control do that, you eo and slap the child. Order to do with the Chinese menace? The Communist leader wants to ad- An HOIl. Member: Sugar Control vise us that we must not do this we Order. must not do that. This they do ~h the communists find that the only Shri U. M. Trivedi: That is another party which can today oppose them, thing. and which will not allow them to We are only arming ourselves with grow in this cquntry, is the Jan laws which we can make according to Sangh. When it comes to that, the our wish and choice, without coming Communist party always comes round before Parliament. and throws mud at the- Jan Sangh. An hon. Member: Chini and cheeni! Wherever Jan Sangh is strong, com- Shri U. 1\1. Trivedi: Therefore, if munists are wiped out, they cannot there is no emergency, do not keep come up, we will not allow them tb the people in suspense. Have no come up. That is the reason why the emergency. We have lost territory. reaction of the Communist Party be- We have lost face. We are hanging came very apparent in that speech. down our heads in shame. Let us I am not concerned with any parti- keep them hanging down for some cular person. AIl of them are res- more time. There is no harm. We pected friends of mine. Individually, have been keeping them hanging they are very good persons, but as a down for so long. But do not call it party that reaction is there. emergency any longer. One word more. I do not know whether in joke or in seriousness Shri SurendraDath Dwivedy: Hang Shri Mahatab suggested that we must yourself! come out with substitute plans. My Shri U. M. Trivedi: The only object reply to that is: why should we come is that we must hang ourselves (Inter- out with substitute plans? I can- ",ptiom). I am prepared to do that not understand it. If a man who runs with all of them. a business, a shop, a company or a Some very pinching remarks were limited concern, cannot manage his made by one of the Deputy Leaders of own affairs, let him get out, file an the Communist Group. A sugges- insolvency, and I will appoint a liqui- tion has been made that the riots in dator and then run it. Till that time Calcutta were created by the Hindu comes, it is no function of mine 10 community. This ought not to have come out with substitute plans. from a man of that great leam- come ~' Sfo ~: ~~ iag like the Communist Member who lIPOke. What baa it got to do with ~T~~~~~ 67 I Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 1964 bl! the! Vice-President 672 discharging the functions of the President ['.1" ';~ ~ 00] qfu "I"T It ;:;ft. 00 ~ ..rr ~ toit>' lft;;r;rr t ~ lIi!l1' it ~; If><:if ~ it m'll'lITlfUT f«r ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 'liT 'ffir if; ~ it ~: m 1 ;;ft 5ffiiICr ~~ it> ~ '3qft¥rn' flf'llT tm ~ fq; itlt ~ ~ l!mf rn ;- ~~;~';~~ ~ qrif, '3Of ~ it;;IT ~: mlf.r ~ .1 ~ ~ p;fi ~~ ~' ;;iT It iRT- ~ ~ :a-;tfl Wcr m- it ~ md" T ~ ~ ~ "1") ..rt ~ 1ft ~ ijQ; m, mq;n: It ~ ~ ~T .. ~:: ~ ~ it ~ ~ ~ ~T '3"'l!fcr ;tT cr<:tIi '!>flf,T ~ ~ 1 m'l:: iru q ~~ ~ flf'llT ~ 1 :~ ~ ~ ~ "SCf l;:T ~ 't 'ii'fll' ~ ~ m'll'lITlfUT ~ ~ fmm- ~;~~T~ ~;~~C ~T~; ~ d"'I1 ~h; er.rr ;;;-f tf2mf ' i:t ~ m ~ '3'AiT ~ it lfl?: ~ ~ ~ f'l1 ~ ~~~~'~~~ if ;;IT ~ if; ~ ~ ;;;r f;;r>fi flf'llT ~ SC~T~~ 't ~ ~ it ~~~~~;~ ~ f.I;'!H ~ "1") f.I;':a-;tfl <::<'fml" ~ CR ~ ~ 1 ~ ~ ~ if, t' ~ ~ :a-;t ~ l!iT *rrlt 'l1: '" ~ ~ lI'r.f;rr ~ 6r.f CfI!iT ~~~'':'~ 1 11ft I(iIfcr 't ~ ~ ~ qf1f'fl1!l1lr ''~: It ~ 1fI'IfIIT it ~~ 1 ~ rn i!r Ur ;tT ~ if; ~ VN (t m'f ~ /fW ~ <1iV'IT ~ W it ;;fr ~ Wf1C f.I1lft ~ ~ ~ f;;;-;;ft!9 ~ VTfirlIt ~5~ iii ~ it it 1ft '!f'RT ~ Wf1C ~ ~~ '3'm ~';; ~ ~ ~ ~ it ~ W 1 it m04'fur;rff ~ i!r ~ ~~~~~':~ IiPr it 'ti'Tlf 'FW W ~ ~ r.nr ~~~~~; IiPr i!r it ~ ~ it ."'1'f 'P<: 'lt4T R' ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ;;ft ~ lft;;r;rr 't 'T\! ~ rn i!r ~ ~ t 'J;fR: ~ ~ ~ ~ CAl ' m;;r ~ ~ It ~ "ll11fUf 1f ~ ~ f.I1lft t fit; 41;;r;rr ~ iii ~ "!Of ~ ~ ~ ~ <;'0 ''TS~~T~ m, ~ qrif it' '~ ~~ ~;T ~ CAl !.lG;Ti\". it ~ ~ $ ~ eN it ;m l!t>fIl' li"'m If><: '~ fl!\'l'-i!OI' ~ ~ v. ~ ..,.. ~ \iIlft;r '1' ~ 'I'1iT if q'lft (fill' ~ mmr ~ it ~ m.: ~ ~ t ~ ~ q;mr ifiT ~ t 1 ~ ~ it ~ ami' 'lit ~~:~~~ ~~~~~'~~~ ~ mf'f." <'i'\1IT 'lit ~~ UI!' 'R ~ ;;rT ~ 'I<: S(fdf"lf"leq ~ ~ if itcrr qJft f1r.T " 1 m'!iifTlf ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ M> li' ~~ m-r ~~~ ~ ~ 'fiT ~ ~ ~ if; ~:~ itt ~'TT ~ '~ ~ ~T fq;- ~ ~ me"," ~ !>Ifuf'f·m-rcfT lIIfilCflrt q;Jli ~ ~ ~ ~T ~T ;;rmrr «T'i ~ ~ it q;Jli If.<.i!t ~ f.t; '1:@ f'f> it ~'T~;;T~~~~ ~ ~; ~ ;~ ~ ':~ ~ lIT 'IiTi if ~ if"f ilW fq;"IIT ~ I '3';; ~~T ~: ~' of.off ~ ~' ;;~~ ~~~~ ~~~'~~~~ ~ if ;ft'f ~ ~ ilW fq;"IIT ;;rr ~ ~ Gof ~;' onmm R' ~ if; ~~~~~~ ~ ;;fr ~ ~ \: ~T ftrorcrr if '~ IIil: ~ @ ~ fit; ~ q;: 'fufqor <'fm' '~ ~ 1[( if:W;;mry ~ fi!r ~ , 'IfIR qt q\: ~ ..-m- ~ ~ 677 Motion on Address MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) btl the Vice-President 678. discharging the functions of the President

~~;;:~~ 1 ~ ;'h:~~ ~~ ~~ ~ ;ij« fulT'f<'!' ~ ~ 'm'k ~ ~ ~ ii f'iQ; ~ ~ .ir W It ~ ('Ii" \!IT ;rzrr 'Rif :~ it. f<11Z ~ 1' ~ o<:'li ~ it. fT{ 'RlT ~; iflIT i!iiW '~; ~ ~ ii f<;!it T~~'~~ 0679 Motion on AddTess FEBRUARY 13. 1964 by the Vice-PTesident 680 discharging the functions of "' the President [ I5ff ~ ~ ~ ~-ll'f';;f.r 'l1: ~;5T ~ I ~ iflfT 1 fiI; ~ ~ it GfUiI"{ ''~' ~~~~~~ V1SG ij' ~ 'RifT &IT I ~ 'l1: "&:tI" ~ m.: ~; ~ q'1f, ;:;.ftc ~ 1, ~ ;;it '~ ~~ 'liT ~ ~~ f\!;«T'liT WR ~ ~ ~ ~ ~'T ~ '~;; it9'Wf ltiIiit GRl{ Ili: ~ ~ 'fil1 ~ ~~;; ;~ ~~~; m it ~ 'l1: ;~ ~ ij' O'~'T ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ fti ;;:rr;;r ~ ~ ~ ~~ 'fir m;; '{of O'T~ ll) f't>llT lift ~ ~ ~ it; ~ l:;;r tifT 'l1: ~'; ~ it OfT t\'fo:;rj(f ~~ ~' ;f.r m;j-" tr$: ~:~ ~;;'T 'T~~~ t 'ImIT ~ I ~' 'q"'4:<'''' ~ ~ ~ crm ij'if Of) ';~ ~ Of) miT 'lrll'f.'r ':~~T "IT I ~ O~ ~ ~ 'liT ~ rft"T ~ m m<'f ij' ~ qi ~~T ij' ~ ~ m<'f mmen- ~ fij; ~ 'I\T l!11f it '{f4 ~'~~ I ~~;;:;; I!;lti ~~~''~~~~ 00 ~ ~~ '!it fw. ~;;; o;ft<: ~ '{of ~' 'IiT'I' m ;r.mrr ~ ~ <'Il1if 'I\T ij'T ltifl!' it;ft ij' 'iffl(1T fi -~ rn it> rn ~ fl1; ~' f<:ril" ~ ~ it; r.rif om: it ~ ~ <'IN ~T ltir 'Ii{i' ~ om ~ iITtr ~ 'flIlf.I; ~ ~ ~ ~ it; T~ it ~ ~T ;~ ~ ~ ij'1HToft ~ fiI;;;it ~ ~ 'Tif t ~ !l§ 0l"Nr ~ f.;r\il' ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ if ~ ~ ~ 'I>T ifl"If '1"Q; t I ~:T ,!;;rq;r ~ I ~' lift 'l'l1I' ~ ;~;:'T~ I;;rl{ it ?{f4 ~ I ~ ''~ ffi1jf ~ WIiI' ~ 'liT ~ if"@' fiI;m ;;rr1( ~ f.!; lfiJi'l'Tfuif. It '!iT wrf'crifT fOf ~T ~ I ~ f'f.Q"£T ~ ;;TifT ;;T~ '''~ m!.Tlfi ~ ~ ''T~;; ~ ;torT ~~ if;orn it ~ ~: If.ltqIT<:llT ~ ~' 'fiT ~ ~ I ~T~ ~~ ~ eft ~ ffit ~ ~ ~~ I ~~~~;~~ ~ If>1(aT t f.!; ffit ~ ~ ~ ~ C'T~~~ ~~ ~~~T~~ ~ f.!; m tf'q '1fT ~ ~ tft 'lITifT ~~ I ~ lfiT roif ffit ~ qh: \ffi'T ~ ~: ~ ~ 1ffi it ~~~~ ~;~ ;:~~''~;~ ~TT '3'ij'.m ;m ~ 'lfTlt1TT, ~ tf'q cr;ft ~ tilt eft ~TT f.!; ~ ~T;' on ifr'qf flrm t m-.: f.t;a;rr ~ lim fl:fflm 1ft ~ tpff t I ~ I \ffi' ~ ~ if ~ ;;it lfilfw ~ ~ ~~;; ;ro:,mlt ~ '3'if lIi't ;m f1r.rnT ~ I ~ .. r<:: ~ ~ ~ crifT ~ ~ 1ffi if cmr ;tft IT{ tilt ;:r{f '3'if lfiT .~ 'iffiT ~ 'lfTlt1TT ••• ~ ~ f.!; ~ lfi¥t" ~ lfiT ''~ ~ fit; ~ ~ ~;:: ~ ~ I lilT ~ q)o ;r.r.rl<11' ~ T~ I iR'Il' ~ lfiT<:UT ~ ~ flfi ;;it mit ~ ·.:fT lfIm..; : lfUiI" if ~ t- t iIlh: mr ~ ~ ifr'qf ;;rrQT ~ '3'ij' if "u;;rr '3'<::T<: ilm'TT Q<: "lIT'l"<'TT ~ lIi't. lfilf'4!iTU lIi't.;;it lfiT1f ~ ~ t. '3'ij' iii1. iftvr roif ~ t. '3'ij' ~: ~ '3'<:1"<: ~ tTlfT ffi' ~~ ~ I iii1 iftvr fir;rr ;;rrQT ~ iIlh: ~ ffit if, ~ ;n;rr ~ ;;it oro; t l(W ~ iT1l; ~ m.r ~ if ;;ft ~~ ~ t, 683 Motion on Address FEBRUARY 13, 19M bl! the Vice-President 684 discharging the functions of the President [... r T~ ~ 0'IiT ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 1 ~ Sl'ar-I' ~ ~ ;orrnr ~ 1 "" ~~~~:~;' ~' ~~ 'if) ~' ~ ;;ft mtm" f;;r« ilT ~ ~ 'l'f;jf iJlf. W «lfir ~ ~ ~ ;;r;rny ~ ifiroITJ, ~ 1ft ~ ~ ~ tBJ Motion on Addrerr MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) bll the Vice-President 686 dilchar"in" the functions of the President ~~T': m..- ~ ~'T oft""" m;n: ~ &it T'~ : '1m, , ,'R-1T oT: it tNT ~: ~~ ~' "rfit;if ~ ~ l'fT'fifT 'l'M" f'f iftfiT- ~ if urn fit; "11T if ~ iT ~ t vTU If>"T ~ ~ "T ~ ~ iIR ~' m{l1T if .,;r -m "1!T ;tT ~ 'IT lii! ;;IT 'Iir.IT iflOIT"l: &' ~T'T ~ ~ mit '1ft mu ~'' QI"'f it 'l\'t: oft o;fu: mq'f if ~ ~ t, ~ 'lo/fT ~; ifR 'ifl'f iff!" ~ I.rT ~ t I ~~~ "1"T ifT ~ t 1 m'l' ~ f"fil" ;;~; ~ ~ 'lift C1"1' ~~ fit; "I'!l(jriJ '~ 1f; foro; <'fMl 1f; mr 'f@ 'i<'f".fr I ~:;: ~ ~ 1f; ~ qm 'I\',[f ;. miTt 1 't:;;frrf'f iFf oii{ 'f>l:UT '1\'1 'IT; ~'T~ f"fil" ~ 11:1' .mrt :~: il:'; TI ~ TI ~; 'mr ~' ~ t I ~ if ~ ';~ ~ <'fTl;I' ~ if) 'Pi iT Q:'trr t, ~ ifT'!>" ~~ ~ ~ 1 ~ 1f; 'l\'1{'fTfw it q-;[iTf ~ ",,,oir '-IT'l ~~ 1 ~ ~ ifi'f"fm t 1 "T i'rif ~;:~ '1fT ~~ ~ f'l\" ~ 'f.T ~'~ ~TT mR'l\'i'l:T ':~~ '';~ ~~ ~ ~ fir. 'ifTfi[il" 1 m;;r ofr ~ ~ t ..m: q"r of To ~; ~ 1 ~ .rr :a-m aliT'll! ;;ft 'ifl'f, ~ ~ j;ff; am: ~'7 ~ 'i\:T;tT t 1 17.00 hn. itlft "I"r .,erifr:nT iT.fr ~ ~ ~ 'f<:i\" ~ ~ it" :'~ ~: if 'I'1fI' 'l\'I1T 'a"l{r;;r Pf;lif ~ if if iITi'f m-.: 'l\'0f 1 ~ ~ ~ '~'~ 1:I'r ~ Pf;Q'r ~ Pf; Iff, ~ ~; 'T~: ? 1 if off fir.i1 if ~ lJ\'"{"t " ~ if ~ 'ifTiif 'l'<: ~~' if ~~ ''~T if ~ ~ ~ ':~T ~ crr 1:1;'l\" ~ 'fi"Fl'f if'fifT 'T~ f.t;cr;n ~ ~ 1 ~ lJ;"fmIT if f.!; "1"1' ~ lJ\'"{'t iIT<'fT ~ ~ """ lif!i' ~ ''~ ~ 1 ~ ~ "I"1fT ''':~ ''~ 'lflifT oii ~ 'f;'T ClIT'l'J"l: "-ilm ''~ I" m't ~

[...... ,. li!fir'f] ~ ~ ~ Dr. L. M. Singhvi: Mr. Deputy- IliT f1r;rnT lfOU I 'I X l'IttTT I Speaker, Sir, my purpose in raisin, it fwi ~T ;q+r rn cn;: it l?T, ~ I find that the sufferings, the sorrow, ~:;;;; ~T ~ it ~T 'f.rWrrif iii ~ the misery, the pathos and the de'Spair of the rural population in the fiWT ;;. ~T 'T~ "%lTrt 'liT ~~ matter of obtaining adequate and <'f11T ~ T:T'~ ~ X

In regard to the alIoca tion of ous way and for avoiding waste like Re. 67 crores for the Third Plan this. period, 1 have already said that we would like to know whether the hon. 1 would like to end this little speech Minister thinks that it would be by saying that unless something on a feasible. to utilise profitably this en- massive scale is done, unless the tire allocation and to carry forward Minister is able to give an earnest our programme of rural water supply, of her dedication to this problem, the because it does appear from the pace country is likely to be enveloped in that we have kept so far that it would the worst kind of despair engulf- be hardly possible for Government to ed by this very deeply human .pend all this money fruitfully and to problem. Very 1j.ttle has been carry forwaro the programme of rural done so far. A great deal remains water supply. to be done, and unless the Minister is able to convince this I should like to know whether the House and the country that she is financing procedures and organisa- going to dedicate the entire govern- tional methods in this connection have mental effort in a unfiagging been improved and changed to suit the manner, we would not be convinced exigencies and the urgency of the that this Government will be able te> problem, or whether they abound in deliver the goods in the matter of the same kind of bureaucratic delays adequate and safe water supply. ~ which they did at the time this National Committee had occasion to I would like to ask the Minister 110 into this matter. also as to whether they have secured the establishment of water and drai- I should like, in this connection, to nage boards in the vari aus States and quote from the Committee on Plan whether they have done anything ta Projects, which says this very clearly secure the establishment of conserva- on page 4: tion and river water pollution cont- "It will be observed that the rol boards in the country as a whole. incidence of work-load in the These are matters of very great con- actual implementation of the pro- sequence, and both rural water gramme has been neither pro- supply and drainage should receive gressive nor proportionate to the sufficient attention at the hands of total provision in the Plan." this Government if we are to provid.. the people with this basic requisite This is a succinct conclusion of an of human existence. expert committee, and that is the con- Shri Barish Chandra Mathur: elusion which the hon. Health Minis- (Jalore): I shall fini!;h in just tWit ter has to endeavour to answer before minutes. this House in order to satisfy us that this rural water supply programme Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Not a speech will .not be arrested by similar but just a question. deficiencies in future. Shri Barish Chandra Mathur: I I would also like to know whether would like to know from the hOD. the Minister has done anything speci- Minister what value we are to attacA lie in the matter of procuring or to the assurance given by the Prime facilitating the procurement of neces- Minister on the fioor of this House aary materials, whether it is not that adequate rural water supply P

IShn Harish Chandra Mathur] Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I have callM to cater to the urger.t and primary Mr. B. K. Das. needs of the people. I ask this question. Shri B. K. Bas (Cantai): In view of the fact that there are some a:teIIi!I Mr. Deputy-Speaker: She will ans- at least in my State of West Bengal 'wer; no explanations are needed fur- where due to certain mechanical diffi- 1her. Shri B. K. Das. culties "-" well as the nature of Ihe soil and other reasons tubewells do Bot Shri Barish Chandra Mathur: Let work long and there are some areas, me complete the question. My ques- called 'no tube-well arE'as' where tube- tion is this. The action taken by the wells are not possible. What steps hon. Minister for allocation of funds have been taken to improve the life to Raj asthan which is the worst-hit of the tube_wells and to supply water State in this respect do.. s not I econcile; in those areas? .how does she reconcile the Rs. 20 lakhs allotment for Rajasthan for Dr. B. N. Singh (Hazaribagh): b. 1964-65 with those assurances given view of the difficulty about completbg bv the Prime Minister ~ the National the rural water supply plan pointed Development Council? Please allow out by the Health Minister, will it be me to complete my point. From the desirable to consider the formation of ,tatement it appears that they have a high-power body with representives ;allott!'d Rs. 20 lakhs for Rajasthan for from the Ministries of Health, P.W.D. J 964-65. With no new schemes, with and Finance and Planning C(lmmislrion the present schemes in progress and and give them the responsibility for with their carrying forward, it will implementing this scheme? need Rs. 70 lakhs and the establishment charges of Rajasthan Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is not a :are Rs. 70 lakhs, you have com- question but a suggestion fer actJon. :pletely wasted that establishment ·charges. How do you reconcile the Shri Tyagi: May I have half a statement made here on the floor of minute? fhig HoUSe and the recommendatioRs -made and the allocations which you Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I C8IIDOt :have made' What is '.he necessity of depart from the rules; the rules are "having an investigating rnachnery very strict. when you have not even got funds to -carry out the present schemes? Why Shri Tyagi: If she yields? are you wasting money like this? Mr. Deputy-Spea.lter: She does DOt Shri Tyagi (Dehra Dun): Will you yield. :allow me half a minute? Dr. Sushila Nayar: Mr. Deputy- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: No. You must Speaker, Sir, 1 am grateful to Dr_ Singhvi for bringing up this discussion give previous notice. becaUSe it enables me to clear up a few Shri Tyagi: I was trying to catch misunderstandings WhICh ~ ::your kind eye. seem to have arisen as a result of some of the questions and supplementaries Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I have no sometime ago. The first misunder- 'kind eye. standing that I would try to correct .Shri Ha?ish Chandrn l\!athur: If;;;" is that he thinks that the Health Minis- 'Were to look to the proceedings, you try has Rs. 60 crores. We do not have would see that half-an-hour discus- Rs. 60 crores but only Rs. 16 crores. sions had gone on for two hours .... There has been some error or some (Inte1'TUptions.) I would have taken it misprint somewhere which has led ta "., more strongly .... this misunderstanding. .MAGHA·24, ·1885 (SAKAI Water Supplll

Dr. L. M. S1Dgb.vi: Is it not the Dr. Sushila Nayar: It is the major ::!igure given for the entire .ellooation part of the population that is served by .10r rural water ·suppJy? these wells. I admit there are are.- where the situation is sWI very clliIi- Dr. SushUa Nayar- ,The .He-ollth cult and the problem is very acute. Ministry's allocation. These are the areas where simple well. are not easy to dig. There, some com- 8hri Barish Chandra ~h: 1tis plicated engineering skills are requir- the entire question of the LUral water ed. It is for these areas that this ·supply. Why did the Health .Ministry scheme of the Health Ministry has heeD alone come here? She sah it is Clnly functioning. The Health Ministry has :Rs. 16 crores and not Rs. ·60 crores. supplied 15,000 villages with these- · Then the other Ministries concErnEd engineering schemes and water supply $hould also come. Let us pos !.pone this through theSe engineering schemes for , rliscussion. the people of these areas. I do not say that we are happy with it. I think Mr. DepUtycSpeaker: . She:is . reply- much more needs to be done and ,jng. should be done and we are trying to move in that diredion. '8bri HariShChandra 'Mathur: How "an she, if she is not seized of the Shri Harish Chandra Mathur was 'entire problem? We .woul'd ,request asking why We were having engineer- : you . to close this disCUSSiOn. ing divisions because money is spent on that and enough money is not avail- Mr. S~: .1 connQt. able for continuing some of the schemes and so on. What we are try- 8hri Barish Chandra MALiwr: ·.what ing to do is to meet the problem that remains. We are trying divide it '.'" the use of proceeding WIth, the dis- to · russion if she is not m possession of into three areas: one is the problem of · all the materials? those areas where there is no water supply and people have to go miles aDd Dr. S~ Nayar: . Do 'not get miles for water, In these places either there will have be very deep •eXC1!ed; It IS not 'good 'tor .'you 'Sir, to very wells or water will have to be brought I WlSh to submit that the iCI(la' that ·nothing has been done is very erro- from long distances by pipes, etc, ·neous. There are two ·sets of 'efforts These are complicated problems which · that are being maae for the rural water are very costly at places. BecaUSe of 'supply, One is in the 'fonn Of oI'dinary the very cost, they have been shelved 'wells and the other is in the "form of in the first Plan and in the second Plan 'piped water suply or safe water supply, and in the first half of the third Plan. 'what has come to be known'as the Is it wrong on our part to bring inta 'National Water Supply and Sanitation focus the needs of these scarcity areas? : Schemes. So far as the first "part is The peT C4pit4 cost of supplying water concerned, tl18t is, the we!'.", 'which in those areas is very much higher ~ the JIOurces of wat.er supply for than what it used to be in the past. DOth Dr. Singhvi's ana my ·-grand- We have to deal with these difficult parents. during the twc> Plans that areas sometilru! and we thought, let 1]& have passed-the first and se(!Ol1d Plans take courage in both hands and find -and 1 think during ~h first year of out what is the quantum of the prob- '(he third Plan. '1,11,709 wells 'have lem, how shall we go about it, what 'been sunk or repai,'ed, That is not a will be its cost and its implicatiolllL &mall or mean achievement. So, the We have set up these investigation result is that the major part 6f' tht> divisions to assess the problem and to ·oountry_ formulate schemes for these areas which are without water, the moat , ~ 'S~: "Whatis'tn-e:1'OPU- difficult areas. The second priority ',atlon of the country? areas are those where some water- (Dr. Suhsila Nayar] JlUpply is available but it is inadequate. Either the quantity is inadequate or Shri·1IarisIt Chandra Ma&luQo: On a point of explanation . . • the quality is not very good. There may be 2 wells where 4 are required Dr. Sushila Nayar: I am not yield-. and the water may be slightly brackish ing the floor to Mr. Mathur. I have or it may have some other chemicals heard him patiently and that I should which are not very desirable. That is be. given an opportunity to have my the second priority in the scheme. The say. He does not want to know; he is third group is where it will be possi- so filled with. his own ideas that he ble to supply all our villages with does not want to hear anybody else. Jllipe water-suPPly instead at their. That is not the way in which we can -drawing water from the wells, as our llroeeed.· We have taken up 140· people have done for a long, long time. villages with acute guineaworm problem in Udaipur. Further, in the light In this scheme of things, Dr. Singhvi of the experience, we have put in fur- what have We done to get assis- asks ther money and we are taking up the tance from international agencies? He whole of that district where the prob- quotes me as sgying that we have not done anything. That is not quite cor- lem exists. It is a simple solution. By closing down the step wells and: rect. When he suggested that we dtawing the water, the problem will should ask the international agencies be'solved: to help Us solve the problem, I told biro that it is not that we do not know In Punjab, we have taken up Kangra bow to solve the problem, but we and Gurdaspur districts, in Madras, . do not have adequate funds to MadUrai district and· in Gujarat, wIve it. We have taken assistance Bhalva area. In- Bihar, I do not have· from international agencies wherever the details of "the areas taken up. This, it was feasible. One instance is the is a· specific limited programme that UNICEF water supply scheme which We have taken' up with UNICEF· we have taken up for certain areas in assistance; certain States, areas with special health problems. In U.P. We have We have taken up· with the Planning- taken Garhwal and Saharanpur dis- Commission and· the Finance Ministry· tricts. In Rajasthan, We have taken the question· of funds and have recom- Wdaipur district, where the guinea- mended· that loans that are available' for water-supply schemes may be on' WQml problem exists specifically. We want to get rid of this problem. the same basis· as loans given to tele· phones. railways lind· some of the eco- 8hri Barish Chandra Mathur; There nomic projects with very low interest is no matching grant from you. or witli no interest and only handling· charges. Because when the municipa-- Dr. Sushfla Nayar: Mr. Mathur lities or other lOCal bodies have to. pay· seems to think that the money which regular inter".t rates, it becomes very- «>mes from international agencies is difficult fOr thl?m to pay the loan back. not assistance from the Government This matter is being discussed with the III India. agencies concerned' 8Ild they are' Sbri BarIsh Chandra Mathur: Money considering our suggestions. I hope is there, but no matchinr grant from something will come- out of it. :rou- Then it was asked as to what we· Dr. Sushna Nayar: Let him unner- have done with z;egard to making stand that assistance that comes from available ~ pumps etc. There any source is Government of India again. we are proceeding in the matter assistance. It is not coming from with the Planning CommiSsion witlr heaven. Government 01 India enters the various· other· concerned Minill- into assistance agreements with WHO tries likes 1Jhe Ministry of Indus- or UNICEF. trie:.- an!!·· Steel; We have taken' 701 Rurat . MAGHA 24, 1885 (SAKA) Water Supply 702

up this matter with some of gone back and taK"n up the implemen_ the international friends also as tation, Shri Mathur informs ~ to how we can increase the produc- have no official information-they have tion of some of these items, whether reduced it to Rs. 20 lakhs. How is the there is need for a new concern or Central Ministry responsible if the whether the capacity of the existing State Governments do not attach suffi- ones can be incressed. All that is cient importance to the rural water bemg considered and is being proces- supply schemes and they spend the sed. money on something else? Can we force them? We are trying our level Now, r must say that it is an amaz- best to carry the State Governments ing state of affairs that when we have with us and we are trying to help tried to deal wit" this problem on a them in every way possible. There is scientific basi:.. in a systematic man- not a single State Government that ner, when we are trying to go to the has come forward and told me that it very grass root of the problem and has spent the money provided in the see how this problem can be solved, Plan for water supply and it needs we are accused of evasion of not more. I have assured each one of applying ourselves to it. Well, all that them that the day it has spent what I can say is thnt this is not correct. has been provided in the plan for water supply and it comes for more I shall I am asked whether we will be able see to it that somehow or other it gets to spend ali the money that we have. some more money. But let them spend I am assured by the Community Deve- first what is provided in the plan. Let lopment Ministry that they are going Shri Harish Chandra Mathur take it to spend all their Rs. 13 or 14 crores. I up with his own State Government am assured by the Planning Commis- iastead of waxing eloquent on the sion that all their Rs. 35 crores are go- floor of this House and accusing the ing to be spent. I am assured also by Central Ministry. When han. Mem- the Home Ministry that their Rs. 3 bers are not able to get the needful crores are going to be spent. So far done in their States sometimes they as our B.s. 16 crores are concerned, think thht by scolding us things will they will b., spellt. But will the State be smoothened and carried on. We are Government> spend what is in their willing to do our best. I can assure plan? the House (hat we are as anxious as Shri Harish Chandra Mathur men- anyone of them and We do want to tioned the ca <" of Raj asthan. So far as have all our assurances fulfilled and Rajasthan i. concerned, we recom- provided our people with safe and mended to them a:l allocation of Rs. 1 good water supply as early as possible. crore for the coming year for water supply schemes out of the provision 17.40 hrs. that has ~ heen made. By the time they finished all their discussions The Lok Sabha then adjourned till at various stages, they reduced it to Eteven of the Ctock on Friday. Febru- Rs. 50 h~ By the time they have a'y 14, 1964/Magha 25, 1885 (Soka)

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