Monday Volume 530 20 June 2011 No. 173

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Monday 20 June 2011

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through The National Archives website at www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/information-management/our-services/parliamentary-licence-information.htm Enquiries to The National Archives, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT

MEMBERS OF THE CABINET

(FORMED BY THE RT HON.,MP,MAY 2010)

PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY AND MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE—The Rt Hon. David Cameron, MP DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL—The Rt Hon. , MP FIRST SECRETARY OF STATE AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH AFFAIRS—The Rt Hon. , MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt Hon. , MP LORD CHANCELLOR AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR JUSTICE—The Rt Hon. , QC, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR BUSINESS,INNOVATION AND SKILLS—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WORK AND PENSIONS—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR HEALTH—The Rt Hon. , CBE, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR EDUCATION—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT—The Rt Hon. Eric Pickles, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR TRANSPORT—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT,FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR NORTHERN IRELAND—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SCOTLAND—The Rt Hon. Michael Moore, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WALES—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR CULTURE,OLYMPICS,MEDIA AND SPORT—The Rt Hon. , MP CHIEF SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY—The Rt Hon. , MP LEADER OF THE AND CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER—The Rt Hon. Lord Strathclyde MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO—The Rt Hon. Baroness Warsi

DEPARTMENTS OF STATE AND MINISTERS Business, Innovation and Skills— SECRETARY OF STATE AND PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE—The Rt Hon. Vince Cable, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for Universities and Science) John Hayes, MP (Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning) § Mark Prisk, MP Lord Green of Hurstpierpoint (Minister for Trade and Investment) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Edward Davey, MP Edward Vaizey, MP § Baroness Wilcox — MINISTER FOR THE CABINET OFFICE AND PAYMASTER GENERAL—The Rt Hon. , MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. , MP PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARIES— , MP Nick Hurd, MP Communities and Local Government— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Eric Pickles, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for Housing and Local Government) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , OBE, MP Robert Neill, MP Baroness Hanham, CBE ii HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

Culture, Media and Sport— SECRETARY OF STATE FOR CULTURE,OLYMPICS,MEDIA AND SPORT—The Rt Hon. Jeremy Hunt, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Hugh Robertson, MP (Minister for Sport and the Olympics) Edward Vaizey, MP § Defence— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Liam Fox, MP MINISTER OF STATE—Nick Harvey, MP (Minister for the Armed Forces) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Gerald Howarth, MP The Rt Hon. Andrew Robathan, MP Peter Luff, MP Lord Astor of Hever, DL Duchy of Lancaster— LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS AND CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER—The Rt Hon. Lord Strathclyde Education— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Michael Gove, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Sarah Teather, MP Nick Gibb, MP John Hayes, MP (Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Tim Loughton, MP Lord Hill of Oareford Energy and Climate Change— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Chris Huhne, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Charles Hendry, MP Gregory Barker, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—Lord Marland Environment, Food and Rural Affairs— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Caroline Spelman, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. James Paice, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Richard Benyon, MP Lord Henley Foreign and Commonwealth Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. William Hague, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Jeremy Browne, MP The Rt Hon. David Lidington, MP (Minister for Europe) The Rt Hon. Lord Howell of Guildford PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Henry Bellingham, MP Alistair Burt, MP Government Equalities Office— MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. Theresa May, MP § MINISTER FOR EQUALITIES—Lynne Featherstone, MP § Health— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Andrew Lansley, CBE, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Paul Burstow, MP The Rt Hon Simon Burns, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Anne Milton, MP Earl Howe Home Office— SECRETARY OF STATE AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. Theresa May, MP § MINISTERS OF STATE— Damian Green, MP (Minister for Immigration) The Rt Hon. Nick Herbert, MP (Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice) § Baroness Browning (Minister for Security) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Lynne Featherstone, MP (Minister for Equalities) § , MP HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont. iii

International Development— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Andrew Mitchell, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Alan Duncan, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—Stephen O’Brien, MP Justice— LORD CHANCELLOR AND SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Kenneth Clarke, QC, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Lord McNally The Rt Hon. Nick Herbert, MP (Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Crispin Blunt, MP Jonathan Djanogly, MP Law Officers— ATTORNEY-GENERAL—The Rt Hon. , QC, MP SOLICITOR-GENERAL—Edward Garnier, QC, MP ADVOCATE-GENERAL FOR SCOTLAND—The Rt Hon. Lord Wallace of Tankerness, QC Leader of the House of Commons— LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND LORD PRIVY SEAL—The Rt Hon. Sir George Young, MP PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—David Heath, CBE, MP Northern Ireland— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Owen Paterson, MP MINISTER OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Hugo Swire, MP Privy Council Office— DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER AND LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL—The Rt Hon. Nick Clegg, MP Scotland Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Michael Moore, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. , MP Transport— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Philip Hammond, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. , MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Norman Baker, MP Mike Penning, MP Treasury— PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY AND MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE—The Rt Hon. David Cameron, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt Hon. George Osborne, MP CHIEF SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. Danny Alexander, MP FINANCIAL SECRETARY—Mark Hoban, MP EXCHEQUER SECRETARY—David Gauke, MP ECONOMIC SECRETARY—, MP COMMERCIAL SECRETARY—Lord Sassoon PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. Patrick McLoughlin, MP LORDS COMMISSIONERS— Michael Fabricant, MP Angela Watkinson, MP , MP Brooks Newmark, MP James Duddridge, MP ASSISTANT WHIPS— Philip Dunne, MP , MP Robert Goodwill, MP Shailesh Vara, MP Bill Wiggin, MP Chloe Smith, MP Norman Lamb, MP Mark Hunter, MP iv HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

Wales Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Cheryl Gillan, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—David Jones, MP Work and Pensions— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Iain Duncan Smith, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP Steve Webb, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Lord Freud Her Majesty’s Household— LORD CHAMBERLAIN—The Rt Hon. Earl Peel, GCVO, DL LORD STEWARD—The Earl of Dalhousie MASTER OF THE HORSE—Lord Vestey, KCVO TREASURER—The Rt Hon. John Randall, MP COMPTROLLER—The Rt Hon. , MP VICE-CHAMBERLAIN—The Rt Hon. Mark Francois, MP CAPTAIN OF THE HONOURABLE CORPS OF GENTLEMEN-AT-ARMS—The Rt Hon. Baroness Anelay of St Johns, DBE CAPTAIN OF THE QUEEN’S BODYGUARD OF THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD—The Rt Hon. Lord Shutt of Greetland, OBE BARONESSES IN WAITING—Baroness Garden of Frognal, Baroness Northover, Baroness Rawlings, Baroness Verma LORDS IN WAITING—Earl Attlee, Lord De Mauley, TD, Lord Taylor of Holbeach, CBE, Lord Wallace of Saltaire

§ Members of the Government listed under more than one Department

SECOND CHURCH ESTATES COMMISSIONER, REPRESENTING CHURCH COMMISSIONERS—Tony Baldry, MP HOUSE OF COMMONS

THE SPEAKER—The Rt Hon. John Bercow, MP

CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Lindsay Hoyle, MP FIRST DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Nigel Evans, MP SECOND DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—The Rt Hon. Dawn Primarolo, MP

PANEL OF CHAIRS Mr David Amess, MP, Hugh Bayley, MP, Mr Joe Benton, MP, Mr Clive Betts, MP, Mr Peter Bone, MP, Mr Graham Brady, MP, Annette Brooke, MP, Martin Caton, MP, Mr Christopher Chope, MP, Katy Clark, MP, Mr David Crausby, MP, Philip Davies, MP, Jim Dobbin, MP, Nadine Dorries, MP, Mr Roger Gale, MP, Mr James Gray, MP, Mr Mike Hancock, MP, Mr Dai Havard, MP, Mr Philip Hollobone, MP, Mr Jim Hood, MP, The Rt Hon. George Howarth, MP, Mr Edward Leigh, MP, Dr William McCrea, MP, Miss Anne McIntosh, MP, Mrs Anne Main, MP, Sir Alan Meale, MP, Sandra Osborne, MP, Albert Owen, MP, Mrs Linda Riordan, MP, John Robertson, MP, Andrew Rosindell, MP, Mr Lee Scott, MP, Jim Sheridan, MP, Mr Gary Streeter, MP, Mr Andrew Turner, MP, Mr Charles Walker, MP, Mr Mike Weir, MP, Hywel Williams, MP

HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION The Rt Hon. The Speaker (Chairman), The Rt Hon. Hilary Benn, MP, Sir Paul Beresford, MP, Mr Frank Doran, MP, John Thurso, MP, The Rt Hon. Sir George Young, MP SECRETARY OF THE COMMISSION—Dorian Gerhold ASSISTANT SECRETARY—Joanna Dodd

ADMINISTRATION ESTIMATE AUDIT COMMITTEE Alex Jablonowski (Chairman), The Rt Hon. Hilary Benn, MP, The Rt Hon. Sir Alan Haselhurst, MP, John Thurso, MP, Stephen Brooker, Mark Clarke SECRETARY OF THE AUDIT COMMITTEE—Gosia McBride

MANAGEMENT BOARD Sir Malcolm Jack, KCB, (Chief Executive), Robert Rogers (Director General, Chamber and Committee Services), John Pullinger (Director General, Information Services), Andrew Walker (Director General, HR and Change), John Borley, CB (Director General, Facilities), Myfanwy Barrett (Director of Finance), Joan Miller (Director of Parliamentary ICT) (External Member), Alex Jablonowski (External Member) SECRETARY OF THE MANAGEMENT BOARD—Matthew Hamlyn

SPEAKER’S SECRETARY—Peter Barratt SPEAKER’S COUNSEL—Michael Carpenter SPEAKER’S CHAPLAIN—Rev. Rose Hudson-Wilkin

PARLIAMENTARY COMMISSIONER FOR STANDARDS—John Lyon, CB PARLIAMENTARY SECURITY CO-ORDINATOR—Peter Mason

20 June 2011

THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES OFFICIAL REPORT

IN THE FIRST SESSION OF THE FIFTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT OF THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND [WHICH OPENED 18 MAY 2010]

SIXTIETH YEAR OF THE REIGN OF HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II

SIXTH SERIES VOLUME 530 TWENTY-FIRST VOLUME OF SESSION 2010-2012

in fly-tipping. The Keep Britain Tidy group has remarked House of Commons that people would simply have dumped their garbage illegally in a bid to avoid the taxes. It seemed to me to be Monday 20 June 2011 utterly unreasonable to pit neighbour against neighbour.

The House met at half-past Two o’clock Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): Wirral council’s ability to manage refuse collection is severely hampered PRAYERS by the financial settlement it has received. Will the Secretary of State or Ministers meet a Wirral delegation to discuss funding for local services, including refuse [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] collections, in Wirral?

Mr Pickles: It is always a delight to meet people from Oral Answers to Questions Wirral, and if the council there—or, indeed, the hon. Lady—would like to meet me or some of my hon. Friends, we would mark it eagerly in our calendars. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD): The Secretary of State was asked— What incentives and support—financial or otherwise—will the Secretary of State’s Department give to small councils Weekly Refuse Collections such as Purbeck district council, which has moved to fortnightly waste collections but would be interested, if 1. Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): What steps his funds permitted, in moving to a weekly food collection? Department is taking to encourage local authorities to provide weekly refuse collections. [60273] Mr Pickles: My hon. Friend makes my point very well. As the Under-Secretary of State with responsibility The Secretary of State for Communities and Local for local government and planning announced, we are Government (Mr Eric Pickles): The public have a reasonable considering financial assessments. Often the kind of expectation that their household waste, in all its various authority to which she referred could do with some help forms, will be collected weekly. That is why we have with procurement—we have seen a number of smaller already ditched the last Government’s policy of imposing districts get together—and we would certainly hope to fortnightly collections, and we are now going to work deal with weekly collections in all their various forms. with local councils to increase the frequency and quality of rubbish collections. We want to make it easier to Mr Speaker: Order. If the Secretary of State could recycle. face the Chamber, we will all benefit from hearing the full flow of his eloquence. Mark Menzies: Does my right hon. Friend agree that by stopping Labour’s planned bin taxes, we are saving hard-working pensioners and families a lot of money? Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): This money has been recycled many times over. At the Conservative Mr Pickles: My hon. Friend is absolutely correct party conference in October 2008, the Secretary of about abolishing Labour’s plans for bin taxes, which State promised: would have hammered hard-working families. They were “Under a Conservative Government, the weekly bin collection also ridiculous because they would have led to an increase will be back.” 3 Oral Answers20 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 4

Since the election, eight Tory councils, including in the now consider whether he can bring pressure to bear on Prime Minister’s own constituency, have abandoned local authorities, so that serving men and women are weekly bin collections, and the Secretary of State has also designated as a priority for local authority housing? been forced into a humiliating U-turn. Why can he not deliver on his promises? Grant Shapps: I do not just want to remove the housing disadvantage for those who have served in the Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): Rubbish! military; I want to put them at a positive advantage. That is why we have announced today that they will Mr Pickles: My hon. Friend suggests, from a sedentary receive that priority in the Firstbuy scheme. I can also position, that that was rubbish, and I cannot disagree tell my hon. Friend that they will be a priority in the with him. We are looking at delivering weekly collections social housing allocation list. Also, if I may correct one and a financial incentive for providing them, but we had point, the new figures for rough sleepers out today from to start from the basis of dealing with the legacy—we CHAIN—the Combined Homeless and Information had first to remove the Audit Commission and the Network—show that just 2% of those who have served instructions in the Waste and Resources Action Programme previously in the military are on the streets. suggesting that it was best to close these things down after local elections, and we had to ensure that the Christopher Pincher: I am grateful to my right hon. fortnightly collections, which the right hon. Lady advocated Friend for his answer. Will he join me in congratulating so strongly when she was Minister for Housing, were Tamworth borough council on the steps that it proposes also stopped. to take in prioritising service people on its housing list? Professional organisations such as the Residential Landlords Caroline Flint: Of course, under Labour, recycling Association have also been encouraging their members went up, and last week we heard that across our islands, to support service people with housing needs. Does that Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales have higher targets not demonstrate that the private sector can work with for recycling than England. I think that the record will the public sector to deliver the housing element of our show that most of the local authorities with fortnightly armed forces covenant? bin collections are Conservative-controlled. Is not the truth that this chaotic climbdown is a personal humiliation Grant Shapps: I have no hesitation in congratulating for the Secretary of State? He is making promises he Tamworth on its approach to the armed forces, or the cannot deliver, his own councils are not listening to him Residential Landlords Association, which has done much and he has been dumped on by his Cabinet colleagues. to push this issue. I congratulate them, and I will go further when we draw up the social housing regulations Mr Pickles: I understand now why Polly Toynbee is after the Localism Bill has passed. so disappointed with the right hon. Lady’s opposition across the Dispatch Box. I apologise, Mr Speaker, for Service Provision not directing my earlier remarks to you. She is concerned about the number of Conservative authorities, but their 4. Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): What number is due to the fact that the majority of councils recent assessment he has made of the effects of in this country are Conservative—she had a big chance reductions in central Government funding for local in May to rectify that and failed singularly. However, we authorities on levels of local authority service are removing the incentives for fortnightly collections, provision. [60276] and looking at incentives for weekly collections. 13. Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab): What Housing (Armed Forces Personnel) recent assessment he has made of the effects of reductions in central Government funding for local 2. Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): What authorities on levels of charges for local authority plans he has to provide support through his services. [60286] Department’s housing policy to serving and former members of the armed forces. [60274] The Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Greg Clark): I can tell the House 10. Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): What that I have made a new assessment of the consequences plans he has to provide support through his for local authorities of paying down the deficit. Currently, Department’s housing policy to serving and former the average reduction in spending power for councils members of the armed forces. [60282] this year is 4.4%. However, if VAT were reduced, as per a recent suggestion, the £13 billion a year needed to pay The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant for it would require the average cut in council spending Shapps): I am absolutely determined to ensure that to be 29.1%. In my view, that would be to go too far and serving and former serving personnel from the armed too fast. forces are treated properly when it comes to housing on their return. Mr Slaughter: That is all very interesting, but from next month, nine Sure Start centres in Hammersmith Mr Gray: Serving men and women form a and Fulham will lose more than 90% of their funding, disproportionately large part of those who are homeless and therefore will close. Parents at one of them—Cathnor or rough sleepers. I therefore very much welcome the Park—have got a judicial review going, but they are Government’s notification that they are a priority group having to expedite it, because the council is going ahead under the Firstbuy scheme. However, many of them with 50 redundancies and closing services, despite the cannot afford to buy a house at all. Will the Minister fact that the courts have not yet considered these matters. 5 Oral Answers20 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 6

Will the Minister at least go as far as advising that rogue Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab): Today’s council not to proceed with those closures until the report from the Equality and Human Rights Commission courts and the parents have had their fair say? demonstrates that Britain’s pensioners are not receiving the care that they deserve. In Birmingham, the coalition Greg Clark: That is a superb council, and it certainly council’s cutting of care to 4,100 of the most vulnerable does not need any advice from me. In fact, I am astonished has been branded unlawful by the High Court. Having that the hon. Gentleman has not taken the opportunity imposed the biggest cuts in local government history, to congratulate his council on saving every library in the does the Secretary of State take any responsibility? Will borough, by merging the service with neighbouring he intervene in this matter, or does he share the view of boroughs, and on saving £1 million. When he was the Prime Minister that the actions of Birmingham city leader of the council, he doubled the council tax and his council were “excellent”? Labour administration was booted out at the election. The current, Conservative administration was returned Greg Clark: The problem with Birmingham is that it with a healthy majority at the last council election. has a legacy of mismanagement and waste from the days of Labour control, which lasted quite a long time. Mrs Glindon: As a result of the Government’s decision If the hon. Gentleman is interested in the economies, as to impose huge, front-loaded cuts on local authorities, I am, will he tell us his position and that of the right many councils are increasing charges for social care, hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint)? He is the hitting the elderly and the vulnerable. Will the Minister Rasputin of the Labour party, the power behind the join me in condemning Tory councils such as North throne of Edward Miliband. I have to warn the Leader Tyneside council, which has increased its home care of the Opposition, however, that the hon. Member for charges by more than 50%, from £99 to a maximum of Derby North (Chris Williamson) is an acolyte of the £150 a week? shadow Chancellor. In Wimbledon fortnight, it would Greg Clark: We still have not had an answer—perhaps perhaps be appropriate to say that he is one of Balls’ we will shortly—to the question of how the extra black boys. Is it the shadow Secretary of State’s policy to add hole that has opened up will be funded, and whether an extra £13 billion of cuts? Yes or no? And would that that will come from local government, but I will answer come from borrowing, or would it yet again come from the hon. Lady’s question. Three years ago, one of the local government? Will she tell us what her policy is? In predecessors of the right hon. Member for Don Valley the week that— (Caroline Flint) as Minister for local government, the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Mr Speaker: Order. I am grateful to the Minister, but Healey), complained that only one in five councils was he must now resume his seat. In the name of utilising using charging to its full potential. Indeed, the last our time properly—I use the word “properly”advisedly—we Government issued statutory guidance to force councils must focus questions and answers on the policies of the to charge more for parking, for example. Council charging Government. doubled under Labour. Unlike the last Government, we will not force councils to increase their charging. New Homes Bonus

Sir Paul Beresford (Mole Valley) (Con): Does my 5. Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con): right hon. Friend agree that there is great cost variation How much funding his Department has allocated from in like-for-like authority provision? Therefore, it is the New Homes Bonus scheme (a) to Lancaster and inappropriate to judge the quality of services by the Fleetwood constituency and (b) in total since the amount of other people’s money—that is, taxpayers’ scheme’s inception. [60277] money—spent on them. Greg Clark: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. His The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant record in leading Wandsworth, which was transformed Shapps): The first New Homes Bonus allocations were under his leadership—I am pleased to say that that made in April. Over six years, Lancaster will receive transformation has continued under the leadership of some £1.4 million and Wyre some £1.6 million. Across Sir Edward Lister, whom I am sure the House will England, the allocations will total almost £1 billion congratulate on his knighthood—shows what can be during the spending review period. The next allocations done when there is a Conservative council that takes the will take place next April. economies seriously. Eric Ollerenshaw: I thank my right hon. Friend for Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): Does my right hon. that reply on behalf of the two district councils. How Friend agree that, now that the Government have introduced long will it be before this policy and others of the new greater transparency in relation to any amounts over Government begin to address the failure over the past £500 that local authorities spend, our constituents will 13 years to get the right number of new houses that we be far better informed about the politics involved in the need? reduced budgets for local authorities? Grant Shapps: The policies are already having some Greg Clark: My hon. Friend is another distinguished impact. In the first year of this new Government, house former leader of a local authority, and he is absolutely building starts were up 22%. That compares rather right. We still have not heard whether those on the favourably with the period during which the right hon. Opposition Front Bench think that it is a good idea for Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint), who is now councils to have full transparency.I think that Nottingham the shadow Secretary of State, was housing Minister, city council is still holding out, but perhaps we shall be when house building starts were a third lower than they enlightened on that matter soon. are today. 7 Oral Answers20 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 8

Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): The Mr Pickles: I will indeed join my hon. Friend in Minister will be aware that some Labour Members are congratulating his council. As I said in my original rather sceptical about whether the New Homes Bonus answer, this is quite a big deal, amounting to £2 billion a will deliver more homes than were being built before the year. I think it was Cheshire East council that managed recession. Given that no research is being done into the to save £500,000 a year on the single person discount. effectiveness of the scheme, and that there is no evidence We are not talking about trivial amounts here; we are about such schemes in other countries, does he agree talking about something that will make a big difference. that it would be appropriate to have an independent review of the scheme’s effectiveness? If so, what period Home Ownership of time should the review cover? 7. (Harlow) (Con): What steps his Grant Shapps: The Chairman of the Select Committee Department is taking to support home ownership. is wrong to say that no research has been done into the [60279] scheme. Indeed, the impact assessment stated that it would increase house building starts and, as I have just 14. Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): What said, there has been a 22% increase in house building steps his Department is taking to support home starts in the first year of the policy. Let us compare that ownership. [60287] with the year before the policy was put in place, when The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant house building under Labour was at its lowest level Shapps): I can announce today that, subject to contracts, since the 1920s. There is therefore growing evidence that more than 100 developers will offer the equity loan the New Homes Bonus is working rather well. product “Firstbuy” and I can also say that this will Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab): I make build more than 10,000-odd homes as we initially my usual declaration of an indirect interest. anticipated—something like 10,500 in England—and bring up to £500 million worth of investment across The New Homes Bonus is paying out taxpayers’ the UK. money but it is not delivering. Planning permissions fell by 17% on year for the first quarter. Let us not confuse Robert Halfon: Is my hon. Friend aware that, under that with starts, which took place as a result of investment the last Government, the waiting list in Harlow quadrupled? by the previous Labour Government. The Town and Does he accept that one of the best ways to break the Country Planning Association, the Campaign to Protect poverty trap is to help families into shared equity schemes Rural England and the Royal Town Planning Institute to give them a foot on the property ladder? are clear that the changes in the Localism Bill will enable developers to buy planning permissions. Are Grant Shapps: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. those professionals wrong? The waiting list doubled across the country, but in Harlow it quadrupled during the period of the previous Grant Shapps: The idea that one quarter can be Government. That is not good enough; we must build judged against an entire year’s evidence is, of course, more homes to get ourselves out of that trouble. In nonsense. The evidence for the entire year is that house addition, we need innovative products that share equity. starts are up by 22%. I would rather take a year’s figures I know that my hon. Friend is a keen supporter of that than one quarter’s. We know that councils right across and I am sure it will help in his area as indeed it will in the country, including Labour councils, are welcoming the areas of all Members across the country. the New Homes Bonus money, which is now starting to make a real difference. Yes, it is right for local authorities Nadine Dorries: Many residents in Mid Bedfordshire and local people to take fully into account the economic who are living in social and council housing would love benefits of building more homes in their areas. to have the opportunity to buy the home they live in. We know that such policies introduce aspiration and Fraudulent Claims (Local Authority Funding) narrow the gap between rich and poor, enabling people to get on to that property ladder. Does the Minister 6. Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) (Con): have any plans to introduce schemes like right-to-buy What steps he is taking to reduce the level of again so that residents in Mid Bedfordshire can have fraudulent claims for funding awarded by local some hope? authorities. [60278] Grant Shapps: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to The Secretary of State for Communities and Local talk about right-to-buy, which helped millions of people Government (Mr Eric Pickles): Last month, in conjunction achieve the aspiration of owning their own homes. This with the National Fraud Authority, I published a 10-point Government fully support that objective. I think it is plan outlining how councils can save £2 billion a year right, however, to recycle that money into building from tackling fraud. Whether it be through dealing with more homes. Under the affordable rent scheme that I tenancy cheats or organised crimes, this is a key way to have recently introduced, that is precisely what will save taxpayers’ money and protect front-line services. happen: if people end up buying their home, more homes will be built, which will help to lessen that record Mr Raab: I thank the Secretary of State for that social housing waiting list that we were disgracefully left answer. Will he join me in recognising the lead taken by with after 13 years of Labour Government. Elmbridge borough council, which over the last year alone recovered £72,000 of overpaid benefit and is Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): using data checks to crack down on the abuse of the Does not the Minister recognise that, far from promoting single person council tax discount, cutting out waste home ownership, his Government’s policies have led to and fraud and saving taxpayers’ money? a stagnant market in which housing starts are collapsing 9 Oral Answers20 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 10 and public confidence has been shattered by a combination been reduced by only 2.1%, while its capital grant has of the Minister’s incompetence and the Government’s been increased by 32%. The disposition of appliances economic management. Does he not recognise that the and staff is, of course, a matter for the authority. latest figures from the National House-Building Council— the most authoritative source—show that housing starts Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): As in April 2011, the latest for which figures are available, my hon. Friend knows, following the floods of 2007 are 18% down on last year? and the tragedy in Hull the Pitt report placed an obligation on fire services to provide the right equipment in the Grant Shapps: I am deeply shocked that the right event of future floods. Will he ensure not just that that hon. Gentleman, who is an acknowledged expert on obligation exists but that money will be provided, and housing, has chosen to judge what is going on in the will he insist that local authorities make that happen? housing market on the basis of a single month’s figure, rather than an entire year’s worth of data which shows a Robert Neill: Some of the most important equipment 22% increase in housing starts. Housing starts mean made available for such purposes is the “new dimension” that homes get built, which is turn means that we are on equipment that is provided through a central Government the road to recovery in terms of starts and builds. grant. The Government have continued to fund the equipment directly, and I am glad to say that, with the Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): It has been exception of one item, all of it is duly being rolled out. reported recently that millions of people will never be able to afford to own their homes, and that only those Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): In February, who inherit equity from their families will be able to do the Under-Secretary of State accused me of scaremongering so. However, equity will increasingly be used to pay for about the impact of his cuts on the fire service. However, long-term care, and owner-occupation will diminish. Is freedom of information requests have confirmed that that not the reality? he has already presided over more than 1,000 firefighter job losses, although the Prime Minister pledged to Grant Shapps: The hon. Gentleman is right to draw supply funds to the fire service front line. Can he tell us attention to a serious problem involving both long-term whether he expects further firefighter cuts in the next care and a reduction in people’s ability to buy homes. 12 months, and if so, how many? That has happened because house prices tripled over the 10 years following 1997. Eight out of 10 first-time Robert Neill: The disposition of firefighters is entirely buyers are buying their homes through the bank of a matter for local authorities, whose job is to ensure mum and dad, but today those without that ability will that they fulfil their statutory obligations and meet their be pleased to hear about our Firstbuy scheme, which integrated resource management plan. Provided that will help more than 10,000 people in England to get a they do those two things, it is not for central Government foot on the housing ladder for the first time. to micro-manage them. I know that it is difficult for the hon. Gentleman to understand that. Fire and Rescue Services Unauthorised Development 8. David Wright (Telford) (Lab): What recent discussions he has had with representatives of fire and 9. Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) rescue services on the effects of reductions in their (Con): What plans he has to increase the powers of budgets; and if he will make a statement. [60280] local authorities to tackle unauthorised development. [60281] The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): I 16. Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) regularly meet representatives of fire and rescue authorities. (Con): What plans he has to increase the powers of My door is always open to their members if they wish local authorities to tackle unauthorised development. to discuss their concerns. I have specified seven areas in [60289] which fire and rescue authorities might make efficiency savings, but the setting of fire authority budgets and The Secretary of State for Communities and Local service delivery are a local matter which is determined Government (Mr Eric Pickles): The Government take by individual fire and rescue authorities and not by the problem of unauthorised development very seriously. central Government. There are already strong powers to enable local planning authorities to take action, and the Localism Bill, which David Wright: Shropshire fire and rescue service begins its Committee stage in the House of Lords “has been hit by unprecedented cuts to its grant from Central today, includes provisions in clauses 108 to 111 to Government, with a 12.6% reduction for years 2011-12 and strengthen authorities’ powers to tackle unauthorised 2012-13”. developments, particularly when people have deliberately Those are not my words, but the words of the chief fire tried to conceal them. officer in a letter sent to me the other day. Services and engine cover in Telford are to be reorganised. If response Mr Evennett: I thank my right hon. Friend for his times fall away, will the Minister look again at the grant response and the work he and his Department are doing allocation for the Shropshire fire service? in this field. Does he believe the policies in the Localism Bill to which he has just referred will speed up the Robert Neill: The local government grant accounts planning and enforcement process to help tackle the for only about 38% of the Shropshire fire and rescue problems caused by unauthorised developments and authority’s total budget. Its spending power has therefore business operations? 11 Oral Answers20 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 12

Mr Pickles: I do. A particular problem has been Andrew Stunell: The new homes bonus will give local unscrupulous developers rather playing the game by councils every incentive to bring empty homes back both appealing against enforcement in respect of into use. They will get matching council tax receipts for unauthorised developments and putting in fresh six years for each home brought back into use, and that applications. In future, the applicant will have a choice extra funding can be spent on areas that benefit the of either appealing the enforcement or making a fresh local community, such as council tax discounts, boosting application. local services, renovating more empty properties or improving local facilities. The £100 million of investment Andrew Jones: I thank my right hon. Friend for his is part of our affordable homes programme. Applications answer. The 2006 planning enforcement review for that will be opened in the autumn, but I can tell my recommended that planning fees should not include a hon. Friend that 100 organisations have already expressed charge for enforcement. Will the Secretary of State keen interest in it. confirm what the current position is, and is he considering changing it? Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Will the hon. Gentleman take a look at the issue of empty Mr Pickles: We will lay out changes with regard to offices that might be appropriate for housing? I walk enforcement and issue guidelines. For instance, we will past 200 Aldersgate, a massive office complex in the increase the fine for enforcement from £1,000 to £2,500. centre of our city that has been empty for years. That is It is important to send out the message that unscrupulous a disgrace. Why cannot we use that for people who have developers will no longer be able to play the system and nowhere to live? get those vital months of freedom in which to continue with a development no one wants. Andrew Stunell: I am happy to tell the hon. Gentleman that he is just in time. There is a consultation on Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): One of the planning precisely the issue he has raised. It closes on 30 June, enforcement steps that the Secretary of State has made and I look forward to receiving his submission. it harder for Slough local authority to take is dealing with what we call Slough sheds, which is people erecting Senior Pay (Local Government) garden sheds in their back gardens and letting them out for others to occupy. The Secretary of State has taken 12. Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con): What steps he is away the funds we had to be able to enforce against that considering in relation to senior pay in local abuse of garden sheds. What is he doing to ensure that government. [60285] local authorities have sufficient powers and resources to The Secretary of State for Communities and Local deal with the letting out of inappropriate buildings to Government (Mr Eric Pickles): We have been clear that needy people? we expect councils to demonstrate much more restraint in the local decisions they make on senior pay. In Mr Pickles: I regret to have to inform the House that, addition, we have introduced measures in the Localism in all our deliberations, Slough sheds have not been at Bill and we are improving transparency arrangements the forefront of the Department’s mind. If it is an to ensure greater local democratic accountability in important abuse, I frankly do not believe that the local determining senior pay. authority cannot find the necessary resources to prioritise tackling it. However, we are looking at ways in which we Steve Baker: Many senior business men and their can encourage small business and private enterprise to staff in my constituency have taken pay cuts as a result set up in private homes, and I hope the point the hon. of part-time working through the downturn. Is local Lady raises would not stand in the way of that. government sharing that pain? Empty Homes Mr Pickles: I am delighted to tell my hon. Friend that a survey by one of the trade papers showed that chief 11. Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con): What steps executives’ salaries have dropped by 14%. In my view, his Department is taking to reduce the number of that is certainly a very good start. We have asked chief empty homes. [60283] executives who are earning more than £150,000 to take a 5% cut, and those earning more than £200,000 to take The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for a cut too. They need to do that so they can look their Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): front-line staff in the eye when taking these difficult We have put in place powerful tools and incentives to decisions. support local communities to tackle empty homes. Through the New Homes Bonus, communities will receive a John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): Does the direct financial reward for bringing an empty home Secretary of State agree that the level of transparency back into use, and we are investing £100 million to being applied to the public sector should also apply to tackle empty homes directly. the private sector, and how can that be achieved?

Chris Skidmore: Under the previous Government, Mr Pickles: That is a matter for companies and their together with local residents I fought to prevent thousands shareholders. However, I am sure that somebody who of homes from being built on the Kingswood green belt, has been a champion of the low-paid, such as the hon. particularly since there are 2,260 empty homes in south Gentleman, will be very pleased that we are extending , an increase of more than 660 empty that transparency. It will apply not only to highly paid homes since 2004. What encouragement can the Minister people but to low-paid people in the public sector, so give my constituents that we will do all we can to get that we can clearly see the level of remuneration that these homes back into use? local authority workers receive. 13 Oral Answers20 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 14

Planning the local authority’s strategic vision for its area. How does the Minister propose that neighbourhood plans 15. George Freeman (Mid ) (Con): What could safeguard green areas of land identified for steps he is taking to enhance the role of development in existing local development frameworks? neighbourhoods and town and parish councils in local planning. [60288] Greg Clark: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question. Our hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham The Minister of State, Department for Communities (Martin Horwood) proposed the designation in the first and Local Government (Greg Clark): The Localism Bill place. Hon. Members will see in the national planning gives every community the right to have a neighbourhood policy framework that we will capture a definition that plan, and town and parish councils will have a leading will allow the people who know green spaces best—those role in bringing the plans together. The National Association who live with them—to provide them with the protection of Local Councils, which is the umbrella body for town for which they have been looking for some time. and parish councils, is one of five organisations funded to provide assistance to neighbourhoods in drawing up Transparency (Local Government Spending) their plans. 17. Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): What steps he is George Freeman: I thank the Minister for that answer, taking to improve the transparency of spending in local and on behalf of the 110 villages and four towns in Mid government; and if he will make a statement. [60290] Norfolk I thank him for giving them the opportunity to take control of their own housing policy after a decade The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant in which housing policy was something done to them by Shapps): All local authorities in England now publish unelected Labour quangos. Can he reassure the town details of their £500 spend online and our Department councils in my constituency that where a district council, routinely publishes a wide range of statistics on local for good reason, is seeking to complete a local development authority spend. I say all local authorities but there is framework in an area with very high speculative pressure one exception to that rule—Labour Nottingham. from developers, there will be some scope for town councils to put in place their own plan for their town, Jane Ellison: Ministers have already referred to the such that housing that has been provided for can be sound stewardship of Wandsworth council, which not delivered in a way that will boost the identity of that only publishes everything over £500 spending wise but town and its sense of itself? publishes the salary and expenses of all its staff who earn over £58,200. Will the Minister urge all public Greg Clark: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As he bodies to follow that lead? will know, the parish council in Attleborough, in his constituency, is already drawing up a neighbourhood Grant Shapps: My hon. Friend is absolutely right plan, so that plan can have statutory force as soon as about this. It is incredibly important that public bodies the provisions of the Localism Bill come into effect. I follow that lead. Transparency is at the very heart of encourage other councils throughout the country to allowing citizens to take part in local democracy and join the more than 90 parishes and neighbourhoods hold public bodies to account, and I cannot imagine for that are drawing up neighbourhood plans, even in advance one moment why any public body would want to hold of the Bill’s provisions coming into law. out against that. It is extraordinary that some do and Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): The Minister even more extraordinary that one of them is a major will know that I do not share his optimism about the city authority such as Nottingham. effectiveness of his planning process proposals in engaging people. How will relaxing the planning rules on converting Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Will offices into homes give more powers to neighbourhoods the Minister be fully transparent about how much the and communities? people of Birmingham will have to pay for the establishment of the imposed office of a shadow executive mayor and Greg Clark: Having debated these matters with the what they will have to pay in reconversion costs if they hon. Lady in the Localism Bill Committee, I would have happen to reject that back-to-front proposal when he thought she would be the first to recognise the need to finally consults them in a referendum? turn derelict buildings that are not being used into housing that can be used for people in city centres. I am Grant Shapps: I think we might be finally making surprised at her attitude. However, I can update her. I progress. The good news for the hon. Gentleman is that know that she expressed some scepticism about the idea when that kind of transparency is combined, everyone that people would be enthusiastic about this, but I have can hold local authorities to account—that is the whole to tell her that since the Bill Committee, we have been point. When people try to cover things up and when vastly oversubscribed by enthusiastic councils in all huge amounts of expenditure go completely unchecked areas of the country that are eager to get on with by armchair auditors, that cannot happen, but this way neighbourhood planning. That has surpassed our it can and will. expectations and bodes pretty well for the take-up of the rights. Business Rates

Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): The Government’s 18. Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): natural environment White Paper proposes a new What assessment he has made of the likely effects of designation of green areas to be identified in neighbourhood retention of business rates on local authorities in areas plans. However, those plans must remain in line with with high levels of deprivation. [60291] 15 Oral Answers20 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 16

The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Mr Pickles: My advice to the hon. Gentleman is to Government (Mr Eric Pickles): The local government cancel the leaflet. If it has already gone, pull it back. resource review is considering options to allow authorities There is no intention whatsoever, under any circumstances, to receive the repatriation of business rates. We will that he should lose 34%—not in one lump, not in a publish our proposals in July for consultation. We have series of lumps. He is going to have to trust me. We are been clear all along that the review will continue to producing a scheme that he will like. We are producing a support people where needed, to consider how to fund scheme such that he might even consider crossing the authorities where locally raised funding would be insufficient Floor. to meet budget requirements and to control council tax levels. Mr Speaker: We are obliged to the Secretary of State, Iamsure. Paul Goggins: I am very grateful to the Secretary of State for his answer. I am sure he will agree that local Fiscal Autonomy (Local Authorities) authorities have a key role to play in promoting growth. There are very strong arguments in favour of allowing 19. Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con): What steps local authorities to keep their business rates, but given he is taking to increase the fiscal autonomy of local the great disparity that exists between local authorities authorities. [60292] across the country, can he give us a bit more detail about how he will make sure that local authorities in The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for disadvantaged areas that do not have a strong business Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): The base will still be able to fund essential services? local resource review will enable local authorities to keep at least a proportion of the business rates that they raise. This will enable a number of local authorities to Mr Pickles: I am grateful for the right hon. Gentleman’s break free from dependency on central Government. question, because it allows me to make it absolutely The review will also bring forward proposals to free clear that there is absolutely no intention whatever for local authorities to raise tax increment financing to councils to receive anything less than they currently support infrastructure and related projects. receive with regard to the amount of grant. Manchester receives £714 per head and Trafford receives £325 per head. That kind of bridging is not easy to do, but I want Mr Carswell: Does the Minister believe that we can him to understand that the system we are proposing will achieve real localism without devolving revenue-raising fully meet the aspirations of places such as Manchester, powers from Whitehall to the town halls? which has a very dynamic economy. We want to ensure that we no longer take from areas where growth exists, Robert Neill: The Government are anxious to ensure as happens under the existing provisions. that local businesses are not subject to local increases in taxation which they cannot control, but on the other hand a real and powerful incentive is being created for (Hastings and Rye) (Con): Hastings local authorities to grow their tax base by attracting recently fell to 19th from the bottom on the index of business to their area. multiple deprivation. Can the Secretary of State reassure me that in the new assessment, with business rates as a Topical Questions right incentive for councils, areas of deprivation will still get the support they need from central Government T1. [60298] Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): If he will while growth comes back? make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

Mr Pickles: The short answer is yes. My hon. Friend The Secretary of State for Communities and Local is a doughty defender of her constituents, but there is Government (Mr Eric Pickles): Since the last oral questions irony in the fact that the worse an authority can present we have announced plans to build 100,000 homes and itself, the more grant it gets. When I was council leader I create 25,000 jobs by selling off surplus public sector often wanted to state what the good reasons for coming land. We have unveiled a new planning protection to to the area were, and I think we have found a system help communities to protect valuable green open spaces. under which councils will be able to do that. Hon. We have opened up the books on the lavish spending of Members should not be under any illusions—the existing the previous Government via the Government procurement system is bust; it is broken. It simply does not deliver card—Whitehall’s flexible friend. and we want a system that will deliver for the richest On a more sombre note, we are making a £2 million and the poorest. contribution to the Auschwitz-Birkenau Foundation to ensure the long-term preservation and restoration of its Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): But memorial site. It is our collective responsibility to educate while the Stockport part of my constituency would future generations about the horrors of the holocaust broadly break even from localising business rates by and never to forget why we need to challenge and raising almost the same amount as it gets in formula combat the forces of hate. grant under the current arrangements, the Tameside part of my constituency would see a massive 35.7% drop—a Mark Pawsey: The need for more new homes is shortfall of some £30 million funding. Does the Secretary accepted across the House. In addition to Firstbuy and of State understand that coming on top of his front-loaded the new homes bonus, one way of increasing the supply cuts, such a massive reduction in funding for one of of new homes will be to relax the planning rules, England’s poorest local authorities would be an including allowing the conversion of empty commercial unacceptable outcome? space. The Government’s current consultation on that 17 Oral Answers20 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 18 proposal will be welcomed by first-time buyers as well Grant Shapps: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely as the Opposition. Will the Minister tell the House right, and this is a huge problem for a large number of when the legislation might be introduced and estimate his constituents and those of many Members across the the number of new homes that might be created in House. The answer, of course, is that I hope he will give this way? his full backing to the Localism Bill in the Division Lobby when it comes back to the House, as it contains Mr Pickles: I think the proposal will be welcome in provisions on affordable rent that are designed to get all parts of the House. We heard opposing views from people out of the private-rented sector and into lower-cost the hon. Members for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) rents of perhaps 50%, 60%, 70% or 80%. That will help and for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander), but my hon. his constituents and many of ours to afford that rental. Friend has until 30 June, when we will be closing the consultation. The proposal could produce 70,000 new T7. [60305] (Salisbury) (Con): Does the homes over 10 years. I share his commitment to that Minister agree that the Government’s recent statement aim. of 13 April on Traveller sites provides excellent advice to Wiltshire council when it comes to consider contentious Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab): We have already planning issues in Alderbury and Salisbury? heard today about the concerns over the level of charges being raised on the old and vulnerable in our communities Mr Pickles: It is quite reasonable to see this as an as a result of the cuts, but it is not only those people emerging policy. We have put out a consultation document who are facing increases in charges. Tory-run Wandsworth on Traveller sites, and there are a few more days before and Bexley councils are planning to charge children to the consultation closes. It should be clear in the council’s play on their swings. Will the Secretary of State join me mind that this is a policy that is changing and emerging. in condemning this fun tax, or is pay to play now official Government policy? T5. [60302] Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab): The Housing Minister is familiar with the blight Mr Pickles: Let us be clear: under the Labour caused by private landlords in old terraced houses in Administration councils were harangued about not Manchester and Salford. The area-based registration of charging. Councils were instructed to charge more. We private landlords has had some success in dealing with will look at the level of charging in the context of the the problem, but those schemes under the Housing reform of local government finance, but it ill becomes Act 2004 are coming to an end. If local authorities can the Labour party to suggest what the right hon. Lady is show that there has been some success, will he agree to now suggesting when under Labour charges went up the extension of those schemes? and the council tax doubled. Grant Shapps: The simple answer is yes. I have visited T4. [60301] Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con): I would like the hon. Gentleman’s constituency and seen some of to bring to the attention of my right hon. Friend the the problems for myself. I am very much in favour of Housing Minister the good work being done by the discretionary local licensing schemes, which can Erewash borough council and the private landlord play an important part. I pledge that when I come back sector across the borough to encourage landlords to to see his Collyhurst estate, which is about to have its consider housing benefit recipients on an equal footing decent homes funding get under way and have work with tenant on private lets, which has strengthened done on that, I will be very happy to visit one of those the process of moving families into appropriate licensing schemes. accommodation more quickly. Will he welcome this cross-sector work? Mr Speaker: I call Nigel Adams. Not here.

The Minister for Housing and Local Government (Grant Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con): Will Shapps): My hon. Friend is absolutely right that the my right hon. Friend visit my constituency so that I can relationship between local authorities and private landlords show him at first hand the greenfield land that is being is critically important. We have seen how the total stock developed, while thousands of units neighbouring my of social housing declined under the previous constituency, which have been approved by Leeds city Administration. We are going to do something about council for building on, are being completely ignored by that by ensuring that we build an additional 150,000 housing developers, thereby totally undermining any affordable homes, but the relationship with the private regeneration the city would like to achieve? sector is absolutely key, and I encourage and wholeheartedly welcome it. The Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Greg Clark): I would be delighted T3. [60300] Mr Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (Lab): to go to Yorkshire to visit my hon. Friend’s constituency Following that answer, we were told that the and advise the council that the best way it can control Government’s changes to local housing allowance will its destiny is by adopting a local plan forthwith. bring down private sector rents. If that turns out not to be the case, what plans have the Government to ensure T6. [60304] Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): that private sector rents are affordable for the large Despite receiving £20 million of cuts—£5 million more section of my constituents who earn too much to than Wandsworth borough council, and £15 million qualify for social housing or local housing allowance, more than Bexley—Bolton’s labour-run council will but not enough to buy a home of their own and, as a not be charging children to play. Will the Secretary of consequence, spend a huge proportion of their income State join me in congratulating Bolton council on on rent every month? protecting children from the Government’s huge cuts? 19 Oral Answers20 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 20

Mr Pickles: Of course, that is because Bolton receives Mr Pickles: I dare say that, if Labour had been in an enormous grant from the Government. control, we would have seen even bigger increases. After all, this is the year that Labour was going to impose T9. [60307] David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con): In the pretty big front-loaded cuts on local authorities, and it week of the anniversary of the emergency Budget, was urging local authorities to increase their charges. A what additional steps is my right hon. Friend’s Labour MP should therefore not castigate a local authority Department taking to help the Government to achieve that increases charges after listening to a Labour their fiscal mandate? Government; he should be encouraging it.

Mr Pickles: We have delivered a good settlement for Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con): I have a council local government; we are looking to reduce our own that is keen to transfer assets to community groups, and Department, including reducing at the top and reducing community groups are, encouragingly, interested in taking numbers; and we are looking to extend that by offering them on. However, there seem to be some barriers in help on growth, on enterprise zones and on local terms of not only VAT and the complexity of the VAT partnerships for growth. This Department has changed system but community insurance policies, so will the enormously over the past year by becoming pro-growth Department put in place a working group to look at the and helpful to local communities, offering power to barriers that are stopping people transferring assets to local government and ensuring that ordinary people do community groups? not face a big increase in council tax. Mr Pickles: My hon. Friend makes some very important Mr Speaker: I think the hon. Gentleman might want points, but such matters are way above my pay grade. an Adjournment debate on the matter. With regard to charitable trusts and the like, however, it would be sensible for her to talk to members of my Department, and we will do our best to help her. Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): In the Westminster city council area, 3,000 elderly and disabled Mr Nick Raynsford (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab): people are losing social care, children’s centres are being I draw attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ cut, street cleansing is being cut and the youth service is Financial Interests. being cut. In the light of that, does the Secretary of State think it is a good use of public money to run a On waste, will the Secretary of State confirm that his summer roadshow Department spent £1.3 million in the first four months of this year on legal advice and consultancy? How “to counter the messages that people are hearing about council services being reduced or withdrawn”? much of that was attributable to the consequences of his unlawful decision to try to abolish regional spatial strategies? Mr Pickles: We have been most careful to ensure that priority has been given to the most vulnerable. That is Mr Pickles: I am delighted to tell the right hon. why we made sure that £6.5 billion went into the Supporting Gentleman that the bill has come down from what it People programme, and £400 million into homeless was under Labour, and that quite a lot of that money programmes. We expect that to be reflected by local was actually expended on decisions taken by my Labour authorities prioritising the most vulnerable. predecessor. We have been using that money to unravel the mess that he and his friends left behind. Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): It is a national scandal that wanted and profitable pubs are Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): The village of being closed against the wishes of the communities they Braybrooke in my constituency is gradually being serve and simply to serve the interests of greedy developers surrounded by unauthorised developments in open and pub companies. I was delighted to welcome the countryside as a result of applications from the Gypsy Minister with responsibility for community pubs to the and Traveller community. What additional powers and launch of the all-party save the pub group’s new planning guidance will the Secretary of State give to the local charter. Will he welcome that charter and work with the planning authority to ensure that the village is not group to ensure that the Government do all they can to completely encircled? protect pubs? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): Iam The current consultation on the planning guidelines is delighted to work with the hon. Gentleman and to open for a few more days, and we will be interested to discuss his charter—I should be delighted to join him in hear my hon. Friend’s views if he has not already a pub, if need be. The Government are determined, submitted them. We are determined to tackle this problem, through our planning reforms and the Localism Bill, to and the Localism Bill and the changes to the guidelines give communities an opportunity to acquire those assets are designed to achieve just that. that genuinely can be viable. David Wright (Telford) (Lab): The 1% increase in Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab): Conservative-run mortgage activity over the past 12 months is largely Lancashire county council has increased day-care charges focused on remortgages. Why is that? from £5 to £30 starting from this month. Does the Minister think that the residents and elderly of Lancashire Grant Shapps: Because there was an enormous bank will see a 600% improvement from that Conservative crash due to the fact that the debt in the British economy council? got out of all possible control, with Labour spending 21 Oral Answers20 JUNE 2011 Oral Answers 22 money that this country simply did not have. We are in town without a garrison so that our current and former the process of unravelling that mess. I am pleased to service personnel can be housed? report to the hon. Gentleman that for the first time for a very long time average lending to first-time buyers has Grant Shapps: My hon. Friend is absolutely right dropped below 6%. about the additional pressures that arise when there is a garrison in a town. As I announced at the Dispatch Box an hour ago, this Government are determined not only Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): Further to Question 2, to honour returning service personnel but to put them do Ministers accept that in towns where there is a major at an advantage by putting them right at the top of the garrison there is a significant impact on the rented list and for top consideration for such things as the Firstbuy housing sector, both public and private? That being the scheme. We will send Firstbuy agents into the garrisons case, will the coalition Government provide additional to ensure that they can help to get the right people into resources over and above what they would provide for a these new homes. 23 20 JUNE 2011 Eurozone (Contingency Plans) 24

Eurozone (Contingency Plans) have seen how important that role can be in times of crisis, as the IMF has taken swift and decisive action to support the global economy. 3.32 pm There is, of course, no room for complacency. The Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab) Treasury, the Bank of England and the Financial Services (Urgent Question): To ask the Minister what are Her Authority are monitoring the financial system, including Majesty’s Treasury’s contingency plans in case of a in the euro area, on an ongoing basis. Many scenarios Greek default. are considered as part of the normal policy development process. Hon. Members will agree that it would not be The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark appropriate for me to discuss the detail of those scenarios. Hoban): Hon. Members will be aware of the recent I also remind hon. Members that UK banks have little developments in Greece. There has been considerable direct exposure to Greece. media speculation about what this means for the Greek adjustment programme and potential market reactions. The continuing uncertainty in the euro area is a I am not going to engage in speculation on what might reminder of the benefits of taking early action to stabilise or might not happen but give the House an account of and recapitalise the banks, as the UK has done. The the facts as they currently stand. UK banking system has developed a strong capital position, which has made it more resilient and will Let me begin with some background on Greece and insure it against future risks. UK banks have made the financial assistance package. The international financial good progress in sourcing funding, despite the difficult assistance package for Greece was agreed in May 2010. market conditions. The package is composed of two elements: a loan of ¤30 billion from the International Monetary Fund and The difficulties faced by eurozone countries such as ¤80 billion of bilateral loans from euro area member Greece and Portugal reinforce why it is right to pursue states to the Greek Government. Although they were the course that we set last year to tackle the deficit. The created at a similar time, neither the European financial House should reflect that our deficit is larger than that stabilisation mechanism, which is backed by the EU of Portugal, but that our market rates are similar to budget nor the euro area-only European financial stability those of Germany. The action we have taken to strengthen facility contributed to the package for Greece. the country’s finances stands us in good stead during this period of instability in the eurozone. No one on The adjustment package requires Greece to undertake either side of this House should lose sight of the importance significant actions. There are some very difficult questions of these decisions in protecting the UK economy. that Greece has to address now, because the package assumed that it would be able to access market funding again in 2012, but this now looks unlikely in current Ms Stuart: It is absolutely true that there is no room market conditions. The House will also be aware of for complacency, but there is also no room for selective political developments in Greece; a new cabinet has blindness and deafness, which there clearly is on the been appointed and the Government will soon be subject Front Benches. We have yet another question on a to a vote of confidence in the Greek Parliament. Later bail-out to which Ministers say, “Of course, we cannot this month, the Greek Parliament will also be voting on be specific and we will not indulge in speculation on a medium-term fiscal strategy, which is a key element of events that may or may not happen.” the conditions attached to the current adjustment The United Kingdom will not be isolated if Greece programme. defaults. Economists across the world are increasingly Against this backdrop, the euro area member states saying that it is a question not of if, but of when and are have been discussing the next steps. The Eurogroup, arguing that, for all intents and purposes, it has already which comprises euro area member states, today released happened. Another bail-out package will not solve Greece’s a statement calling on problems because it is not regaining competitiveness “all political parties in Greece to support the programme’s main and cannot do so while it is in the eurozone. Therefore, objectives and key policy measures to ensure a rigorous and is it not time that Her Majesty’s Government woke up expeditious implementation”. and prepared for the possibility and almost inevitability The statement also said that Ministers will of Greece defaulting? The situation will lead either to a “define by early July the main parameters of a clear new financing Greek default or to the break-up of the eurozone. strategy”. Whichever way it goes, we will not be isolated. This is a statement from the euro area member states I will therefore ask the Minister some questions that only. Let me be clear: the UK has not been involved in go to the heart of the resilience that needs to be built up. these discussions. We did not participate directly in the The first is about institutional resilience. If he is really May 2010 package of support for Greece, and there has telling the House that people at the Treasury and the been no formal suggestion of UK bilateral loans or use Bank of England have not started to get together to of the EFSM, which is backed by the EU budget. The make practical provisions about who will meet, hold UK participated in the May 2010 package for Greece discussions and take action in the case of a default that only through its membership of the IMF. So the burden would be comparable to Lehman Brothers, he is guilty of providing finance to Greece is shared between the of not stepping up to the responsibilities of his office. IMF and euro area member states, and we fully expect Secondly, the Minister’s economic plans are completely this to continue. Our position on that is well understood predicated on the rest of Europe and the world being across the euro area. economically successful. If Greece defaults, other economies The UK believes that the international community will not grow and ours will be affected. Therefore, needs a strong IMF as an anchor of global economic should he not reconsider his VAT increase, because that stability and prosperity. Over the past few years, we would give us greater resilience? 25 Eurozone (Contingency Plans)20 JUNE 2011 Eurozone (Contingency Plans) 26

Mr Hoban indicated dissent. Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend makes a couple of points about our exposure to Greece and the Bill that is Ms Stuart: The Minister shakes his head; I ask him to currently going through the House of Lords. As I said, take me seriously. the UK’s exposure to Greece is relatively small, with bank exposure at $4 billion. He will recognise that we Thirdly, I ask the Minister to consider article 66 of have a big interest in ensuring the continued stability of the treaty on the functioning of the , the eurozone. That is why the treaty changes are being which states: made—to put the European support mechanism for “Where, in exceptional circumstances, movements of capital to eurozone countries on a permanent footing and replace or from third countries cause, or threaten to cause, serious difficulties the EFSM, to which we have to contribute thanks to a for the operation of economic and monetary union, the Council”, decision taken by the previous Government, with a after consultation, can impose mechanism that is funded entirely by the euro area. We “for a period not exceeding six months” do not believe that there is a transfer of sovereignty measures to restrict capital flows between the EU and from this Parliament to Brussels, so there is no need for the rest of the world. The UK would be affected by such a referendum on those treaty changes. restrictions of capital flows. Has he discussed that with Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab): Will the Minister the Commission? Has he made provision for how the first check his figures? Figures in the Financial Times, UK economy would deal with that if it was imposed? citing Moody’s and Reuters, suggest that the exposure of British public and private sector banks to Greek debt Mr Hoban: The hon. Lady poses a series of very is ¤13 billion, and that of Germany and France ¤34 billion good questions, to which I will respond. and ¤53 billion. Those figures are much bigger than the The hon. Lady asked whether the authorities are ones that he gave. working together. I said in response to her initial question Secondly, will the Minister not recognise that there is that the Treasury, the Bank of England and the FSA now a mood change in Europe? Der Spiegel, the German are working closely on this matter and monitoring the magazine has had a cover story contemplating the end situation. We are keen to ensure that the UK banking of the euro as we now know it, and Mr Charles Grant, system is resilient. The additional capital that the banks the well known europhile, has done the same in The hold now, compared with at the start of the crisis will Times today. Instead of sheltering behind complacent help with that. As I said, UK banks have not had language and weasel words that we should not speculate, difficulty in sourcing funding in the market. There is a the Government should recognise that this eurozone concern about liquidity risk, but UK banks are continuing cannot last. It is the responsibility of the British Government to source funding. to be open with the British people now about the I mentioned in my statement the exposure of UK alternative prospects. Since the euro in its current form banks to the Greek Government. It is $4 billion, which is going to collapse, is it not better that that happens is less than our exposure to, for example, the Irish quickly rather than it dying a slow death? banks. The hon. Lady should bear it in mind that French banks’ exposure is about four times that amount Mr Hoban: May I just deal with the right hon. and that German banks’ exposure is about five times Gentleman’s factual questions? The figures about UK that amount. We are taking the matter seriously and banks’ exposure to Greek sovereign debt were provided considering it carefully, and the Chancellor is currently by the Bank of England, based on results at the end of at the ECOFIN meeting in Luxembourg, where I am quarter one this year. sure it will be discussed. On the right hon. Gentleman’s second question, I seem to remember that he was a member of a Government The hon. Lady talked about reversing the VAT increase. who seemed committed to taking this country into the The shadow Chancellor proposed last week a cut in euro. I do not know whether we have seen a damascene VAT that would cost £51 billion, which would put at or deathbed conversion from the Labour party. I think risk our credibility in international markets. We have it was right for this country to stay out of the euro, and taken the difficult decisions to ensure that UK market that is the policy of this Government. We have a strong rates are in line with those of Germany. The proposal interest, though, in the continued stability of the eurozone, that she put forward, and which her right hon. Friend as it is our major trading partner. Continued instability put forward last week, would mean interest rates rising in the eurozone could be a factor in holding back the for families and businesses across this country, putting recovery of the British economy. the recovery at risk. I do not think that is a gamble that we can afford to take. Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): Given that Greece needs a work-out rather than another bail-out, Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con): Will the Minister will the British Government go to the International concede that it is crystal clear that the Greek situation, Monetary Fund and the EU and say the following? like those of Ireland and Portugal, does affect us? Does First, a second bail-out would mean sending good he also accept that the idea that is being put forward in money after bad and should not be done; secondly, we the European Union Bill of not having a referendum on need an urgent conference of all the interested parties treaties that relate to the eurozone would mean that, to reschedule and re-profile Greek debt in an orderly although we are affected by the situation, we would not way to avoid huge systemic damage, while accepting be allowed to have a referendum on it? Will he ensure that the problem has already occurred. Greece went that when the Bill returns to the House of Commons, bankrupt more than a year ago, but the Ministers of there are amendments to ensure that there is a referendum certain countries cannot believe it and are wasting on this matter, which affects us, so that the British taxpayers’ money on trying to pretend that it has not people can vote on it? happened. 27 Eurozone (Contingency Plans)20 JUNE 2011 Eurozone (Contingency Plans) 28

Mr Hoban: My right hon. Friend highlights the need month when she appeared on “Newsnight” that she for private sector involvement, and he will know that thought that the resolution for Greece was a matter for Chancellor Merkel and President Sarkozy agreed this the eurozone only. weekend that there should be voluntary and private The hon. Gentleman mentioned the increase in the sector involvement in resolving the Greek debt. Some IMF commitment. Of course, the former Prime Minister, very strong accountability is attached to any future the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath financial support for the Greek economy: a tough (Mr Brown) committed to doubling the resources available programme of privatisation, and structural reforms to for the IMF at the April 2009 G20 summit in this improve its competitiveness. I emphasise to my right country. I am surprised that hon. Members have such hon. Friend that although it is right that there should be short memories of those matters. private sector involvement, it is not in our interests for there to be huge turmoil in our largest trading partner, Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con): As the European Union. several EU members have said that the only long-term solution to the crisis in the eurozone is establishing a Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): Clearly, fiscal union, has the Chancellor made it clear to them it is vital and in all our interests that sustainable resolutions that there is no possibility of Britain joining that? As a are agreed for Greek debt financing, but surely the member of the IMF, we are already playing a role in Government must recognise that there needs to be a trying to bail out the European Union from its folly smarter approach than simply piling more and more with its single currency. austerity on Greece. What is the Financial Secretary’s response to those, including , who said Mr Hoban: As ever, my hon. Friend, whom I congratulate yesterday that on becoming a member of the Privy Council in the “austerity measures are making the economy worse” birthday honours list, speaks wise words. The Chancellor in Greece? has been very clear that we do not wish to be part of a fiscal government for the European Union. That is why Why does the Financial Secretary allow the EU to we have fought for the right package for economic procrastinate continually and to kick a solution on the governance, which safeguards the independence and bail-out mechanism into the distance repeatedly? He sovereignty of this House when it comes to making to says that the EFSM has not yet been used. The European fiscal decisions. My hon. Friend rightly reminds us why Council meets at the end of this week. Will the Government it was right never to join the euro. ensure that they grasp the nettle this time, and make sure that a permanent eurozone-only bail-out mechanism Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): Whatever happens comes into force as soon as possible rather than pushing in Greece this afternoon, and even if there is a fire sale it back again? Will he give assurances that the UK will of public assets to buy time, the fact is that the euro is attend any future meetings, which could involve the use moving inexorably towards its death throes. The realistic of EFSM, even if they are eurozone Finance Minister choice is between a controlled deconstruction of the meetings, because the UK’s empty-chair policy clearly euro and the restoration of national currencies, or a is not working? crash that would be catastrophic for everyone. Given that the Financial Secretary tabled a little-noticed Commons motion last week to double the UK’s Mr Hoban: The hon. Gentleman once again reminds subscription to the IMF from £10.5 billion to £19.7 billion, us how important stability in the eurozone is—the was not the Foreign Secretary being disingenuous when situation could have a significant impact on the UK he said on “Sky News” earlier that, economy, which is why it is important that the Greeks “any such support for Greece is for the eurozone and for the IMF, resolve their problems in conjunction with eurozone not for the UK”? member states. However, let me make this quite clear Britain will end up paying more for the Greek bail-out again: we do not want to be part of that bail-out. via the IMF, so will the Financial Secretary come clean and say what he estimates our share of IMF bail-out Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): How does the costs will be for our taxpayers? Surely Ministers should Government’s disposition on these matters differ between pull their fingers out and ensure that the EU makes the case of Greece and that of other strained but larger some final decisions on all that. Is not it about time that or more closely integrated economies, such as, say, the Government showed some leadership? Spain? Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend will of course recollect Mr Hoban: The hon. Gentleman continues to amaze that one reason why we made a bilateral loan to Ireland me with his remarks. He seems to forget the role that his was the particularly close relationship between the UK Government played in setting up the EFSM. The and Irish economies. That relationship did not exist Conservative party has delivered a commitment to ensure with Portugal, and it does not exist with Greece, so that it is replaced with a permanent mechanism—one there is a different approach. It is important to remember matter that will be discussed at the European Council that Greece was bailed out by eurozone countries, and later this week. that the bail-out of Greece should continue to be done It is clear that we do not want to be part of a bail-out by them. of the Greek economy and that we do not want the EFSM to be used. The fact that we are outside the Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): Is not the danger of Eurogroup sends a clear signal that it does not expect us the Government’s deliberate attempts to steer as far to participate in that bail-out. Of course, Madame away from any involvement whatever that the indirect, Lagarde, the French Finance Minister, made it clear last knock-on effect for British businesses and banks, and in 29 Eurozone (Contingency Plans)20 JUNE 2011 Eurozone (Contingency Plans) 30 the end for British taxpayers, will be far more significant attached to the rescue package for Greece, including than he is letting on? That is why many Opposition significant privatisations, tax collection reform and wider Members feel that he is being deeply complacent. structural reforms. However, I think that this is a judgment for the IMF to make. Mr Hoban: I do not think anyone is in a position to accuse this Government of being complacent. We are Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Does the Minister the Government who have taken action to tackle the recall that when the Tories and Liberals were in opposition fiscal deficit that we inherited from the Labour party. and sat over here on the Opposition Benches, the Tories That has enabled the spreads between UK gilts and wanted to see the collapse of the eurozone, but the German bunds to narrow, reflecting market confidence Liberal Democrats thought the opposite and wanted to in the measures that we are taking to sort out the prop it up? Here we are today with a great opportunity problems in the British economy. The Labour party is to see the back-end of the euro, and I can only reach the failing to take its responsibilities seriously or to acknowledge conclusion, based upon his complacent answers, that the mistakes that it made when it was in government. It the Lib Dems are running the coalition. also fails to recognise the strength of support for the actions that this Government have taken to resolve the Mr Hoban: That was a flight of fancy by the hon. economic crisis in this country. Had we not taken that Gentleman. I would say to him and his hon. Friends action, we might well have been in the firing line with that it was this Government who scrapped the euro Greece. preparation unit, which the previous Chancellor of the Mr Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con): Exchequer set up in the Treasury. The eurozone was never an optimal currency zone. It is predicated on a treaty arrangement that calls it irrevocable Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): It is and irreversible. We should never have accepted the only six weeks since £26 billion of European financial hubris contained in those phrases, which brought about stabilisation mechanism funding was nodded through the passage of the Maastricht Bill and the current for Portugal. May I congratulate the Minister on the situation. This Government and this country should change we have seen in those six weeks, on his statement not be involved, and it would be helpful if we said what now that there is no question of any further EFSM everyone in the press now says: this arrangement cannot funding, and in particular on what we read in the survive in its current form. The hubris of those politicians weekend press—that this is a red-line issue for the who led the poor Greeks and all those who believed in Treasury and that any further use of the EFSM is this arrangement should be exposed as such. unacceptable? Long may it continue. Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend is absolutely right that Mr Hoban: My right hon. Friend the Chancellor has we have seen during this crisis the strains within the made it very clear in his discussions with the Finance eurozone mechanism. The actions that needed to be Ministers of EU member states that we do not want the taken to resolve the consequences of those strains include EFSM to be used in this bail-out—a statement that the bail-outs of the Greek, Irish and Portuguese economies. Madame Lagarde confirmed on British television only It is absolutely right that we secured that opt-out to the a few weeks ago. I welcome my hon. Friend’s Maastricht treaty, to ensure that this country did not congratulations. have to be a member of the euro, a position that the previous Government seemed not to support. Mr Denis MacShane () (Lab): The Minister is prudent not to join in the glee of the euro’s gravediggers, Graham Stringer (Blackley and Broughton) (Lab): because if Greece defaults, it will not stop on the The Minister, the Government and the House want Acropolis—Portugal and Ireland will be next—and the stability, but quite frankly, Greece is bankrupt, and nine out of 10 banks in the City that are European and cannot restore its economy while it remains in the euro. foreign-owned will pay a terrible price. Rather than Is not the answer to introducing stability an orderly waiting for the eurozone to disintegrate into a set of return to the drachma? Should not that be the burden competing currencies hiding behind capital-controlled of the Government’s policy? walls—the notion that an open-trade Europe can exist in those conditions is nonsense—we should be very Mr Hoban: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right careful about where we are going. Boris Johnson said that we need stability in the eurozone, but I do not think today that Greece was bankrupt. That is a signal to that speculation here will help to deliver that stability to every Greek to get on his bike and seek work elsewhere. the Greek economy or the wider eurozone. Is that really what we want—a new flood of economic Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con): Most previous migrants into Britain? IMF rescue packages that I can think off have generally involved first a currency devaluation and secondly a Mr Hoban: The right hon. Gentleman raises a series debt default—or, should one prefer the term, a restructuring. of points in his speech, but he makes a strong argument Does the Minister agree that the IMF should be consistent for why it is important that the eurozone is strong and with that approach in regard to Greece, and should not stable. That has broad economic and social benefits. the IMF oversee a decoupling from the euro and a Clearly, if that is to happen, it is important for the default on the debts, which would be consistent with its Greek bail-out to work and be effective. approach in other instances and rescue packages? Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con): I am very concerned. Mr Hoban: The IMF is the body best placed to The next debate is about trying to cut back on pensions decide the conditions to be attached to any rescue and save taxpayers’ money, yet we are still planning to package that it puts forward. Strict conditionality is put through the IMF—a third party—taxpayers’ money 31 Eurozone (Contingency Plans)20 JUNE 2011 Eurozone (Contingency Plans) 32

[Mrs Anne Main] Mr Hoban: We all recognise the challenges that the Greek economy faces as a consequence of high levels of that we are having to scrimp and save at home. My debt. That is one reason why it has been proposed that constituents will not stand for it. I am disappointed to the banks take part in a voluntary initiative to roll over hear the language of the Government at the moment, their debt, to reduce some of the burden on the Greek which seems to imply that Greece is an economy that is economy. too big to fail. That is the same thing we had with the banks. We should put Greece out of its misery—it is John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): In answer flatlining—and no more of our public money should be to one of his Back Benchers, the Minister said that if we sent abroad to Greece, even through the IMF. There are put money into the IMF or the EU, that does not affect riots on its streets. Its people do not like the medicine the rest of public spending. However, the rest of the being offered to it, and we cannot expect it to take any world would recognise that if we spend money on one more. Let it depart peacefully from the euro. It cannot thing, that gives us less to spend on other things. Is that be sustained as it is; it is just good money after bad. right or is it wrong?

Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend will be aware that these Mr Hoban: If that is the hon. Gentleman’s view, he are matters for the Greek Government, but I would say should talk to those on his Front Bench, who seem this. When money has been lent to the IMF, that does happy to propose £51 billion of unfunded tax cuts. not reduce the amount of money available for public Money that we lend to the IMF is money that is sitting spending. We get interest on the balances that we lend on the Government’s balance sheet; it does not affect to the IMF, and it has never defaulted on a programme the spending decisions that we make. We are paid yet. We need to recognise the importance of support interest on the amounts lent to the IMF, which do not provided through the IMF, although I do not really affect the amount of money that we can spend on think that my hon. Friend is suggesting that we should pensions, schools or health, and I made the same point withdraw from it. On fiscal consolidation, let me reiterate about how the EU funds the European financial stabilisation to my hon. Friends and to the Opposition, who have mechanism. ignored this crucial fact, that if we had not taken the tough action that we took a year ago in our emergency (Bromsgrove) (Con): Like Greece, we, Budget, it would be the UK, not Greece, in the firing too, have an enormous national debt, which more than line. doubled over the last 13 years, to more than £1 trillion, with an interest bill of more than £40 billion this year. Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): Nobody wants Does the Minister agree that had we not had a change to see Greece default, but that is most certainly possible. in Government 13 months ago, we, too, could have been Were it to happen, there would be an immediate shock facing the same sad fate? to the eurozone and, more widely, to the EU, our largest trading partner. That would have an impact on the UK. Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend is absolutely spot on. We I am glad that the Minister said that the situation was can see from the reaction of the Labour party in opposition being monitored, but the House and the public deserve that it has not learnt at all from its mistakes in government. more detailed information. If he has not already done If we had not taken tough action, we would have seen so, will he ensure that the Treasury asks the Office for high market rates of interest, which would have increased Budget Responsibility to assess the impact on UK costs for families and businesses across the country. We growth of a potential Greek default, and publish that are now seeing the benefits of the tough decisions that assessment quickly, so that we can understand precisely we took in last year’s emergency Budget. what the consequences might be? Mr Hoban: The OBR will take into account the state Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op): Given that of the eurozone economy in its normal forecasting. the tough, sado-monetarist programme imposed on the However, let me be clear to the House that the Treasury, Greeks a year ago has not worked, how many more the Bank of England and the Financial Services Authority sado-monetarist programmes will work? work closely to monitor the strength of the financial system, and the exposure of UK banks to the Greek Mr Hoban: When the Greek Government agreed last Government and the wider eurozone economy. The year’s debt bail-out package, it was assumed that they actions taken to date have ensured that our banks are would be able to re-enter the markets in the spring of well capitalised, have strong balance sheets and are less next year. That is clearly not the case, given current exposed to the Greek economy than, say, French or market pressures, which is why the Greek Government German banks. British banks can still access funding in had to seek a second round of refinancing. However, international markets, which is a sign of the UK banking they still need to take action to improve Greece’s system’s strength. competitiveness, reduce the size of the state sector through further privatisation and improve taxation, to Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North ) (Con): get the economy back on track. May I urge my hon. Friend to bear it in mind that the nearer we get to the inevitable break-up of the euro, the Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I congratulate faster the denials will be made that it is not going to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) happen? Will he urge the European Union to design a on securing this urgent question, and I say gently to the policy that creates a legal framework for an orderly Minister that it is a shame that he did not volunteer to departure of Greece from the euro? Can he name a make a statement on this matter first. What is Her single reputable economist who believes that the Greek Majesty’s view on whether the euro can survive in its economy can recover without a devaluation? current format? 33 Eurozone (Contingency Plans)20 JUNE 2011 Eurozone (Contingency Plans) 34

Mr Hoban: I cannot speak for Her Majesty on this Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): Madame occasion, but I would say to my hon. Friend that we did Christine Lagarde is clearly an outstanding candidate not come forward with a statement today because no to be head of the IMF, but is the Minister slightly decisions have been taken. A statement was put out by concerned that she is French and, given that the French the Eurogroup last night which recognised that work banks have a very large exposure to the Greek problems, was in progress, and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor that she might therefore be conflicted in her approach has continually sought to keep the House informed of to the problem? the outcome of such discussions. Once ECOFIN has met today, there will be an opportunity for him to lay a Mr Hoban: Madame Lagarde is a strong candidate statement on the outcome of that meeting. for the role of director-general of the IMF. My hon. Friend is absolutely right to point out that she is French; Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): Despite that fact has not escaped us in ECOFIN meetings. the European lenders having cut their exposure to risk Madame Lagarde said on “Newsnight” a couple of in Greece by 30% in the past year, the risk of contagion weeks ago that she recognised that the bail-out of in the eurozone has become the paramount concern. Greece involved a series of agreements between eurozone Will the Minister acknowledge that, with about $2 trillion countries, and that that should remain the case. exposure to Portugal, Ireland, Italy and Spain by lenders in the eurozone, any Greek default would have the Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): The Minister potential to devastate the European banking system has an extraordinary level of confidence—well, I think and jeopardise the economic recovery in the eurozone? it is confidence—in the Greeks’ ability to repay the loans they are currently receiving. I just want to check Mr Hoban: The hon. Gentleman makes an important with him: how much of the £19.7 billion UK contribution point. In the event of a default, there would be consequences to the IMF forms part of the Greek bail-out and how for the strength of bank balance sheets across Europe. long he is prepared to see us continue to make our That is why we are going through a stress-testing process contributions through the IMF? across Europe at the moment to determine the consequences of various scenarios on the strength of bank balance Mr Hoban: I do not think the hon. Gentleman is sheets. UK banks have strengthened their balance sheets suggesting that we should withdraw our membership of significantly and they hold high levels of capital. That the IMF—[Interruption.] It is not clear from the question will give them some insulation against the impact of a he is asking. Part of the condition of any bail-out of an default. economy by the IMF—whether it is a eurozone economy or another economy—is a debt sustainability plan, which Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con): I welcome my is a rigorous part of the assessment process. As was hon. Friend’s commitments on the non-IMF involvement clear in the Eurogroup statement last night, the IMF of British funds in another bail-out for Greece. Does he and the Eurogroup have signed off on Greece’s debt accept that a country running a large balance of payments sustainability plan, so they expect that money to be deficit can pay off foreign debts only if it is able to paid back. reverse that balance, and that to do that, it has to devalue? The man from Brussels cannot make water run Joseph Johnson (Orpington) (Con): The hon. Member uphill. for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) questions the UK’s resilience in the event of a wave of eurozone Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend has pointed to one way defaults. Does the Minister agree that in the eyes of the in which a country can regain competitiveness—through markets, the UK has already become something of a devaluation. There are other ways, including reducing safe haven, with UK 10-year borrowing rates and credit labour costs and increasing productivity, and all those default swap rates falling last week while the comparable actions should be taken to ensure that the Greek economy rates in other countries soared, precisely because the and those elsewhere in the eurozone reach a much UK Government have a good deficit reduction plan, stronger position. and a good plan for settling our banks and making them stronger—and they are sticking to it? Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): The impact on the British economy of events in the eurozone, Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend is absolutely spot on in and in Greece in particular, is potentially very significant. his analysis. I believe that the 10-year gilt rates fell to May I press the Minister further on what contingency 3.2% at the end of last week, which reflects the markets’ plans the Treasury is putting in place to protect the vote of confidence in the UK economy and particularly UK’s financial and economic interests in the event of a the fact that we took the difficult decisions that the Greek default or, worse still, a domino effect across the Labour party shied away from when they were in eurozone? government. We took those decisions, which is why the market rates are similar to those in Germany, yet our Mr Hoban: I will say this again, so that no one leaves deficit is more in line with that of Portugal. the Chamber unaware of what is happening: as ever, discussions are taking place between the Bank of England, Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East the Treasury and the FSA, and we are considering a Cleveland) (Lab): Can the Minister give an assessment number of scenarios and potential market events. I can of what effect a Greek default will have on the German say to the hon. Gentleman that British banks are better and French economies, which are more exposed to such capitalised than they were at the start of the crisis, and a default, and in turn on UK manufacturing? because of the strength of their balance sheets, they are able to access funding in what can be quite difficult Mr Hoban: The hon. Gentleman is right to say that market conditions. That is a good sign of market confidence German and French banks have a greater exposure to in the strength of the UK banking sector. the Greek sovereign debt than the UK banks do. The 35 Eurozone (Contingency Plans)20 JUNE 2011 Eurozone (Contingency Plans) 36

[Mr Hoban] Mr Speaker: Order. May I remind remaining contributors that this is not a general debate on the British Government’s French exposure is, I think, four times that of the UK, domestic economic policy? while the German banking sector’s exposure is about five times ours. That is why it is important that, as we go Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Does the through the process of stress testing European banks, Minister believe that the eurozone will remain intact we look very carefully at the level of capital that our with all its present members? banks hold to ensure that they are in a position to withstand shocks and thus to support and sustain the Mr Hoban: I am not going to comment on whether economy. the eurozone will remain intact. Clearly, this crisis demonstrates the huge strain that the eurozone is under. Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con): The hon. That is why it was right for us to stay out of the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) attacks eurozone. this Government’s VAT policy and, by implication, the deficit reduction policy. Does not what is happening in Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con): Does the eurozone absolutely serve as a timely reminder that the Minister agree that one of Greece’s biggest problems we have to attack the deficit because that is how this is that its people, backed up by the unions, have not country will maintain low interest rates? accepted the austerity measures going through? Is that not a timely warning to unions in this country, which Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It was are complaining about how we are trying to get the clear in the reaction to last week’s statement by the deficit under control, of the consequences unless proper shadow Chancellor that everyone thought his plan lacked and sensible action is taken? sense and would have undermined the recovery in this country by putting interest rates at risk and forcing up Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend has made an important the interest costs of businesses and families. We have point. It is clear that difficult decisions must be made if taken the tough decisions to get the economy right; the our economy is to be put back on the right track, and markets have demonstrated through the rates at which the Government are demonstrating their commitment firms and businesses can borrow that they have confidence to making them. Interest rates are lower than they in our plans. would have been if we had not made those tough decisions, which is good for families and good for Several hon. Members rose— businesses. 37 20 JUNE 2011 Points of Order 38

Points of Order were taken forthwith in accordance with Standing Order No. 83A. It would still be open to Members to 4.14 pm table such amendments today to appear on the Order Paper tomorrow, but either way, under our procedures Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab): On a point of they could not be moved. order, Mr Speaker. The House is only too well aware of The right hon. Gentleman asked a very important the mess that the Government have made of the handling question, namely whether it would be in order in the of the Health and Social Care Bill, but today’s Order Paper debate on the programme (No. 2) motion tomorrow to reveals that they are now outrageously and desperately argue that the whole Bill, not just the clauses specified, trying to deny the House the right to decide whether it should be recommitted, to which the explicit answer is wishes to recommit the whole Bill to a Committee. Can yes. It would be possible to argue that more or less of you confirm, Mr Speaker, that not only would the the Bill ought to be recommitted, or, of course, to argue business motion tabled by the Leader of the House against recommittal altogether. specifically prevent the tabling of any amendment on the form of recommittal to the motion tabled by the I understand the right hon. Gentleman’s concern Secretary of State for Health, which will appear on about the matter as a whole—and he referred specifically tomorrow’s Order Paper—for example, an amendment to the position set out by the Leader of the Opposition proposing the recommittal of the whole Bill—but if last month—but the House is not being asked to agree tonight’s motion were objected to, there would be no to anything that is out of order. It is for the House to debate on recommittal tomorrow? decide on the motions before it. As for the particular question of a programming committee, I can tell the Is it possible, Mr Speaker, for you to prevent that right hon. Gentleman and the House that the Standing from happening, and protect the rights of Members, by Order relating to such committees would apply only to establishing, under Standing Order 83B, a programming proceedings on the Floor of the House, and the initial committee that could meet and pass a motion today programme Order of 31 January specifically excluded which might enable us to have a proper debate tomorrow, the operation of a programming committee on this Bill. with amendments, by invoking one of the exceptions in Whether my response is welcome or unwelcome to Standing Order 83A to the rule that programme motions different Members in the various parts of the House, I should be taken forthwith? hope that Members will accept that it has been fully Can you also tell us, Mr Speaker, whether, if the thought through, and has been offered on the basis of motion tabled by the Leader of the House is passed the Standing Orders of the House. tonight, it will be in order for Members to argue in tomorrow’s debate that the whole Bill should be Hilary Benn rose— recommitted, especially as a motion in the name of the Leader of the Opposition calling for precisely that has Mr Speaker: Of course I will take a follow-up point been on the Order Paper since 24 May? of order from the shadow Leader of the House.

Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the shadow Leader of Hilary Benn: Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. the House for his point of order and for giving me I am extremely grateful to you for your comprehensive notice of it. The right hon. Gentleman has raised a response. The Health and Social Care Bill programme series of very important matters, and I think that it is motion passed on 31 January disapplied Standing important to both him and the House for me to respond Order 83B, which relates to programming committees to them. only in relation to consideration and Third Reading, and which does not apply to Committee stage. If that is Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East the case, could not a programming committee bring the Cleveland) (Lab) rose— matter within scope by the device of now suggesting a Committee of the whole House, which would therefore Mr Speaker: Will the hon. Gentleman allow me to ensure that, even if that Committee of the whole House deal with the point of order from the shadow Leader of were not to be agreed to tomorrow, first, there would be the House? If after I have done so he remains dissatisfied, a debate and, secondly, we could consider amendments? I will of course deal with any ensuing point of order. Mr Speaker: I hear what the right hon. Gentleman Let me say first that the shadow Leader of the House says, but it is my understanding that a programming is correct in supposing that if the Business of the House committee relates to the proceedings on the Floor of motion were objected to tonight, the programme (No. 2) the House, and I think he is in some difficulty if he is motion would be put without debate or opportunity for praying it in aid in support of the proposition he has amendment tomorrow. That is, as a matter of procedure, just made. If I am mistaken, no doubt I will be advised, factually correct. The programme (No. 2) motion would and if he does not think that I have fully seized the be put without debate, as are all such motions varying gravamen of his point, he is welcome to return to it or supplementing a programme order, unless they fall because these are important matters, but that is the best into one of the four exceptions listed in Standing initial response I can offer. Order No. 83A. The motion to be moved tomorrow is not covered by any of those exceptions, and so would Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): Further to ordinarily be put forthwith. that point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you for your Secondly, there will indeed be no opportunity to careful explanation of this issue, but am I right in move amendments. If the Business of the House motion thinking that if the Business of the House motion is is agreed tonight, the programme (No. 2) motion will be objected to tonight, the Government would not necessarily debated for up to an hour tomorrow, but no amendments have to introduce their substantive motion tomorrow may be moved. The same would apply if the motion and could, instead, have a rethink? 39 Points of Order20 JUNE 2011 Points of Order 40

Mr Speaker: As so often, the hon. Gentleman is element of the proceedings. In so far as there is any right. He is absolutely right that there is no obligation different interpretation, it might relate to interpretation on the Government to introduce their motion. They are as to the competences of a programming sub-committee. perfectly at liberty to test the will of the House, but the I hope I have explained the factual position of what a organisation of Government business is a matter entirely programming committee is, and is not, responsible for. for the Government. If they want to take note of who votes which way, or decide to sleep on the matter and Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): Further to that reconsider—I entertain no especial prospect of that point of order, Mr Speaker. I am not sure where this happening, but it could if that is what is in Ministers’ matter will lead the Labour party or others in the minds—that is a matter for Ministers. debate tonight, or possibly tomorrow. I am concerned, however, that this uncertainty may lead to the time Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): A day at protected for the Scotland Bill being eroded or eaten Wimbledon! into, and I am seeking clarification from you or others that that will remain protected. Mr Speaker: I note what the right hon. Gentleman says about a lawn tennis championship taking place not Mr Speaker: Well, there is a lot to be said for seeing far from here, but how relevant that is to Ministers’ what transpires. I know that the hon. Gentleman is a thinking on this matter is not entirely obvious to me. We keen student of political history. Perhaps he will agree are grateful to him, nevertheless. with me in this context that it is a good idea to remember the wise words of the late Lord Whitelaw. He it was who Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East said, “As a rule, I do not believe in crossing bridges until Cleveland) (Lab): Further to that point of order, I come to them.” Mr Speaker. Is it in order for the Government to seek to prevent Members from tabling amendments to a Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): Further to that programme motion, and, indeed, in effect to prevent point of order, Mr Speaker. This all started because the you from deciding whether you wish to select any Government said they were going to listen. That is what particular amendment—and do you have any idea what it was all about. Have you stopped listening? Come on! the Government are so afraid of? Mr Speaker: I fear that the hon. Gentleman, perhaps Mr Speaker: It is for the House to decide to what it not for the first time and possibly not for the last, has agrees; that is a matter for the House. Whatever attempts taken matters a little outside my capacity to rule— may be made to persuade Members of the merits of one course of action or another, they are perfectly free to do The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George whatever is legitimate within the procedures of the Young) rose— House—that is up to them—and ultimately that is then a matter for the House. Mr Speaker: He has nevertheless spurred the Leader of the House, and the Leader must be heard. Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak in Sir George Young: Further to that point of order, support of the points that have been made, and to seek Mr Speaker. It is precisely because the Government a little further clarification. I am certainly not suggesting have listened that we have tabled the motion tonight to that the Government are trying to stifle debate, but it is enable a debate to take place tomorrow. Had we not unclear to the House whether the Government have tabled such a motion, under Standing Orders the sought to prevent amendments to the committal motion recommittal motion would have been proceeded with on the Health and Social Care Bill by accident or forthwith. design. Can you confirm that the Government can still Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the Leader of the change their mind today by moving the motion tonight House, who I think has clarified matters very satisfactorily. without the last section, which prevents amendments from being taken? Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab) rose— Mr Speaker: The answer to the hon. Gentleman off Mr Speaker: I am sure it is an unrelated point that the the top of my head is that if the Government were right hon. Gentleman wants to raise. moved by the power of his argument or the eloquence of its expression, they would be perfectly free to change their Mr Field: Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. mind, and if they were so minded, they would probably Given that this motion is crucial to the survival of the do so through the conventional method in these coalition, if the House follows the advice you gave to circumstances, namely by not moving the motion on the the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone), we Order Paper. If the Leader of the House, as a fair-minded would soon get another motion on the Order Paper, man, happens to be swayed by the observations of the would we not? hon. Gentleman or others, it is perfectly open to him and his colleagues to decide not to move the Government’s Mr Speaker: I am very grateful to the right hon. motion. I hope I have made the position clear. Gentleman. My response is twofold. First, the question It might also be helpful if I say by way of clarification is hypothetical; secondly, the survival of the coalition, in response to the shadow Leader of the House that as the right hon. Gentleman, a Member of 32 years’ the terms of a programming committee do not apply standing, can well testify, is thankfully not a matter for to—do not embrace—the proceedings in a Public Bill me one way or t’other. Committee. As I am helpfully advised, the deliberations If the point of order appetite has been exhausted, of a programming committee do not apply to that perhaps we can now proceed to the main business. 41 20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 42

Pensions Bill [Lords] that faces the next generation, who will have to pay for their parents’ retirement while footing the bill for a [The Northern Ireland Assembly has passed a Legislative crippling national debt, even before they start thinking Consent Resolution in respect of this Bill.] about their own pension arrangements. I remind the House that 7 million people currently are not saving 4.27 pm enough to have the income they want or expect in The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain retirement. We need to look at the steps we can take to Duncan Smith): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read secure their future. a Second time. May I first say something that might help the House? Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Is it not Hon. Members might not realise that there are a number clear to the Secretary of State and the Government that of different things in the Bill, and I plan to go through although everyone accepts that there have to be changes, those elements. I will obviously take interventions, and some of the proposals in the Bill are, for 500,000 it would be helpful if interventions were made on those women, unfair and unjustified? He should do a U-turn sections in due course; otherwise, it will take a long on those proposals as soon as he can. time, and I know colleagues want to speak. Mr Duncan Smith: As I said at the outset, I will The Bill is designed to secure this country’s retirement happily take an intervention on that part of the Bill system, putting it on a stable and sustainable footing for when I come to it. Of course, that requires the hon. the future. I remind the House that our first priority on Gentleman’s staying for the whole debate, but that is up coming into government was to secure the position of to him. today’s pensioners. We acted immediately to introduce the triple guarantee, meaning that someone retiring Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Many today on a full basic state pension will receive £15,000 of us agree with the Secretary of State that it was about more over their retirement by way of the basic state time that someone grappled with this particularly difficult pension than they would have under the old prices link. issue of reforming our pension system, so I congratulate For 10 years, the previous Government talked about him on that, but we need to know very early in the this, but we acted in our first year. debate whether that group of women will be fairly The backdrop to the Bill is that we have taken action, treated and whether the Government will think again, and we have committed to a permanent increase in the because those of us who feel positive about many of the cold weather payments to £25—an increase the previous reforms would find that a sticking point. Government had planned to be temporary. The old rate, I remind colleagues, was £8.50. Last winter alone Mr Duncan Smith: I guarantee the hon. Gentleman we paid out some £430 million to support vulnerable that I will discuss the issue, and I hope he will still be families. At the same time, winter fuel payments will here then—no doubt, we can have an exchange on it. remain exactly as budgeted for by the previous Government: The Bill addresses important issues, not just that of at £200, and £300 for those over 80. pension age. It is key that we get this generation saving and make sure that savings count and are not frittered Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab): Will away by the means test. We also have to find a way of that be inflation-linked? sharing the cost of the retirement system between generations, ensuring a fair settlement for both young Mr Duncan Smith: With respect, it never was under and old. I know that people think that retirement is all the previous Government, and we are not going to about just the group who are retiring, but as we look change that policy. We have had plenty of discussions down the road ahead it is also very much about the on this, and I remind the hon. Gentleman that, although generation who will have to pick up many of the bills. the previous Government uprated it, the Red Book for These are not easy decisions, but I want to make sure that time shows that absolutely no money was allowed that the House recognises that we have to take decisions thereafter, so it was going to settle back. Let us be about the next generation; otherwise we will be guilty of absolutely clear about that. falling into the same slot as the previous Government, who left us with the deficit. Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab) rose— Let me address auto-enrolment. The Bill takes forward the previous Government’s plans for automatic enrolment, Mr Duncan Smith: Let me make a little more progress which were debated and widely supported during the and then I will give way. passing of the Pensions Act 2008 and to which we We have protected other key areas of support for remain absolutely committed. The Bill refines some of pensioners, including free eye tests, free prescription the policy’s parameters to ensure that automatic enrolment charges and free TV licences for those aged over 75. works as effectively as possible, following the Having quickly put incomes on a firmer footing, we recommendations of the “Making automatic enrolment have moved to secure older people’s right to work by work” review that we initiated. First, we propose an taking decisive action to phase out the default retirement increase in the earnings threshold at which automatic age, thereby sending a message that age discrimination enrolment is triggered from an expected £5,800 under has no place in modern British society and that older the previous Government’s plans—I say expected because workers have a huge contribution to make. the figure involves assumptions about changes as a Those were absolutely the right steps to take as a result of inflation—to £7,475. That will protect those backdrop to the Bill, but they are just the beginning as on the lowest incomes and will reduce the risk of the we set about reforming our broken retirement system. lowest earners saving for a pension when they do not At its heart, the Bill is about dealing with the challenge earn enough to make it worth making all that effort and 43 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 44

[Mr Duncan Smith] Mr Watson: The right hon. Gentleman knows that I have always admired his ambition, but is he familiar sacrifice. It will also simplify administration for employers with the Burkean maxim that change always brings by aligning the earnings trigger with the existing personal certain loss and only possible gain? What appears to sit tax threshold. within the proposals he is outlining today is certain loss for many thousands of women facing retirement. Will Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con): My right he sketch out a little more how he intends to give them hon. Friend refers specifically to the linkage of the security, given that many trade unions—the Public and personal allowance but, as he knows, our Government Commercial Services Union, Unite, GMB and Unison— are committed to increasing the allowance significantly. have just voted for strike action? I strongly contend that What impact is that likely to have on auto-enrolment? fear about insecurity in retirement is fuelling that.

Mr Duncan Smith: We are committed to reviewing Mr Duncan Smith: It is always nice to be accused of that year by year, so I can assure my hon. Friend that we having ambition. I thought I was supposed to have will constantly take it forward and not leave it static. given that up a few years ago, but I will be tempted by Introducing a waiting period of up to three months, the hon. Gentleman. Workers can still opt in. They which has been widely discussed and debated, will ease must be told that they can opt in, and if they feel it is the the regulatory burden on employers. We had many right thing to do, auto-enrolment will still be open to representations from employers. In view of the present them. I will not be tempted just yet on the other subject circumstances and the difficulties that many of them to which the hon. Gentleman refers, which is the pensions face, it is important to recognise the key considerations age. I will take an intervention from him, if he wishes, that we had to take into account in framing the Bill. when we get to that. For the moment I want to stay on auto-enrolment. As I said earlier, I recognise that these Workers will retain the right to opt into the system if are not absolutes. In other words, to get the scheme they consider it to be in their best interests to do so. going we have taken some of these decisions, but we will That is important. Although we are allowing a let-out, see where that goes. If there is a very big drive for more if workers want to enter they will retain the right to do to go into it, we will take that into consideration. so. The Bill also amends legislation to enable employers with defined contribution schemes to self-certify their Amendments made in the other place will ensure that scheme. That is simple and straightforward. It makes it the strength of the certification test is maintained by easier for employers with an existing scheme to try to requiring that I and subsequent Secretaries of State align that. If it is aligned closely enough, the scheme ensure that at least 90% of jobholders receive at least can go ahead, saving employers the complication of the same level of contributions under the certification having to change and engage in a new scheme. That is test as they would have received based on the relevant fairer and more reasonable. quality requirement for automatic enrolment. Employers told us in discussions that the certification test will Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Given significantly ease the process of automatic enrolment. that the vast majority of the 600,000 people who will be I believe that these changes, taken together, will allow excluded from getting a pension under the raised threshold us to present individuals and businesses with a credible are women, is the Secretary of State at all worried that set of reforms that will bring much of the next generation the Bill is beginning to look as if it discriminates against into saving for the first time, which was Labour’s intention women? when in government, and one that we will pursue, thus beginning to improve the poor level of saving. There Mr Duncan Smith: I recognise the hon. Gentleman’s has been some talk, not necessarily by hon. Members concern. We are not blind to the issue, but we have here, about the possibilities of mis-selling. We have decided to strike a balance between making the scheme retained the powers to prevent excessive charging in work from the beginning and avoiding driving people automatic enrolment schemes and will use them as on very low incomes into sacrificing too much and necessary and keep them constantly under review. therefore not seeing the rewards. It is important to make Part 3 of the Bill covers occupational pension measures, the point that in the Green Paper, as the hon. Gentleman including a few relatively minor changes to the legislation will have noticed, we talk about the single tier pension, governing the uprating of occupational pensions. The from which there will be very significant benefits to Bill amends existing legislation to set the indexation women. We hope that in due course that will achieve a and revaluation of occupational pensions at the general balance. level of prices. These changes are consequential amendments I do not dismiss the hon. Gentleman’s considerations. that follow the Government’s decision to use the consumer We keep the issue constantly under review and will prices index as the most appropriate measure of inflation watch carefully to see what happens. It is important that for benefits and pensions. we get auto-enrolment off the ground in a stable manner. I remind the House that the key legislation for setting I hope hon. Members on both sides of the House the statutory minimums for the revaluation and indexation recognise that these are balanced decisions—sometimes of occupational pensions is not in the Bill, as we have nuanced decisions—that we have to take, but we will already considered the issue in previous debates on the make sure that we review them. Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2010. This is not the time to revisit those debates, but no doubt Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab): Will someone will want to. Hon. Members might wish to the Secretary of State give way? note that all the Government will do is set out the minimum increases; if schemes want to pay more than Mr Duncan Smith: Indeed. How can I resist? the statutory minimums, that is a matter for them. 45 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 46

I think that the move to CPI is supported, by and large, have a lower life expectancy—in pockets of the country, by Members on both sides of the House. That is certainly definitely—given the type of work they have done. The the indication I was given by the right hon. Member for point is that, in setting and looking at pensions as we East Ham (Stephen Timms) and his previous leader, the have done historically, that is one thing; the other thing right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath is to look at the people in those conditions and ask, (Mr Brown). “Why is that the case?” We must also consider judicial pensions, although I Surely we need to deal with the issue through public am not sure how long Members will want to spend on health policy, through the way in which we educate them. Part 4 introduces provisions to allow contributions people and through the work experience and training to be taken from members of the salaried judiciary that they receive, rather than by trying to do so through towards the cost of providing their personal pensions differential pensions. Importantly, if we tried to deal benefits. I know that the House will be very worried that with it through pensions, we would be in the invidious this might be too tough on members of the judiciary, and almost terrible position of telling one group of but I will resist any pressure to reduce this provision. people that they were retiring at a set age and another Judges currently pay nothing towards the cost of their group, “You’re better than them, you retire at a later own pensions, while the taxpayer makes a contribution age.” That would be an inequality and would be equivalent to about 32% of judges’ gross salaries, which unfair generally, so the hon. Lady is right that there is we think is both unaffordable and unfair to the taxpayer. an issue, but it is not right to deal with it through the [Interruption.] I sense that the House is united at least pensions age; it is right to deal with it through public on that. health policy.

Nick Boles (Grantham and Stamford) (Con): Does Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): Given that the my right hon. Friend agree that it is extraordinary that a Secretary of State has told the House, and there is no party that professes a belief in equality failed to tackle reason to doubt him, that his proposals are based on this extraordinary unfairness in 13 years in office? fairness, it is reasonable to assume that before the Bill completes its passage we will see some changes to the way in which it treats women. Mr Duncan Smith: I would like to be generous to Labour Members and say that they were thinking of the May I question the Secretary of State on a wider worst-off in society and hoped that they might be able point, however? The Bill sets in motion measures not to protect some members of the judiciary. We recognise simply to equalise the state retirement pension age for that we cannot afford to do that, so we must make the men and women, but to increase it. Does he not accept, system more responsible, fairer and more balanced for as my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon all, and these provisions will help us to do just that. It North (Malcolm Wicks) has previously said, that people seems that the House is united at least on that. who enter the labour market early are usually those who live the shortest in retirement? Would it not be fairer for That brings me to the area that I suspect most Members the Government to base eligibility for the state retirement want to talk about—the state pension age. I believe that pension not on a person’s age but on their contributory we will be able to secure a fairer and more balanced years? system only if we get to grips with the unprecedented demographic shifts of recent years. I will put the issue in Mr Duncan Smith: I know that the right hon. Gentleman context before moving on to some of the detail. and the right hon. Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Back in 1926, when the state pension age was first set, Wicks) have raised the issue in the past. I recognise their there were nine people of working age for every pensioner. background, great experience and genuine sense of a The ratio is now 3:1 and is set to fall closer to 2:1 by the need to try to figure out a solution. I am always willing latter half of the 21st century. Some of these changes to listen to argument and debate that, but my concerns can be put down to the retirement of the baby boomers, are twofold: first, I am not certain that we have the data but it is also driven by consistent increases in life going back far enough to be able to make the calculation, expectancy. The facts are stark: life expectancy at 65 has although I might be wrong; and, secondly, I return to increased by more than 10 years since the 1920s, when the point that in the past we have not done things in that the state pension age was first set. The first five of those way, because it is very difficult to set out differential years were added between 1920 and 1990. What is really pension retirement ages for different groups. We are interesting is that the next five were added in just going to equalise provision for women and men, but 20 years, from 1990 to 2010. now the debate is about breaking them apart, and that would lead us into all sorts of debates about unequal Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): On mortality retirement ages. rates, life expectancy has risen, but is the Secretary of State not aware of the huge inequalities between different Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North) (Lab) rose— parts of the country? We have not yet been allowed to Mr Frank Field rose— discuss the detail of the equalisation of pensions, the unfairness and injustice of which 55-year-old women in Mr Duncan Smith: With respect, I recognise the right my constituency want to discuss. Surely we ought to be hon. Gentleman’s point, and I will take an intervention looking at the detail of that, which the Bill simply does from his right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon not do. North, but this is a complicated and fraught area that we should not necessarily deal with in the Bill. Beyond Mr Duncan Smith: I recognise the hon. Lady’s concern, it, I am willing to hear more. but life expectancy has risen among all groups. I recognise also that some groups in certain parts of the country Mr Watts: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? 47 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 48

Mr Duncan Smith: I give way to the right hon. with what we have. I am happy to listen to their concerns Member for Croydon North. and to see whether we can make changes in future, but I do not give any guarantees. Malcolm Wicks: I am encouraged by the Secretary of State’s thoughtfulness on the matter, to which I hope we Tom Blenkinsop rose— will return in Committee. According to the Office for Mr Duncan Smith: To be fair, I want to make a bit of National Statistics, almost one fifth, or 19%, of men in progress, because a lot of people want to speak. If the routine occupations—manual workers, labourers and hon. Gentleman wants to raise something else about the van drivers—die before they receive their state pension. matter, I will give way to him later. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead Pensions policy has not been updated accurately to (Mr Field) has implied, those people have probably reflect all the increases that I spoke about. I remind the worked since they were 14, 15 or 16 years old—very House, however, that we are by no means alone in different from those of us who did not start in the having to deal with this issue; others are making decisions labour market until our early 20s. Some sensitivity about it. Ireland has already legislated for the pension about when people who have worked for 49 or so years age to be raised to 66 by 2014, and the Netherlands and can draw their pension is a matter well worth pursuing. Australia are increasing state pension age to 66 by 2020. The United States is already in that position, and Iceland Mr Duncan Smith: As I said to the right hon. Member and Norway are now at 67. Under existing legislation, for Birkenhead (Mr Field) and repeat to the right hon. the timetable for the increase to 66 in the UK was not Member for Croydon North, I am always willing to due to be completed for another 15 years, yet the look and to think carefully about what proposals there timetable was based on assumptions that are now out of are—not for the purposes of this Bill, obviously, but in date. The Pensions Act 2007 was based on ONS projections the future. I know that he has written— of average life expectancy from 2004. Those projections have subsequently increased by at least a year and a half Mr Watts: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? for men and for women, so the situation is moving Mr Duncan Smith: May I just finish my answer to the apace. That is why we are taking the necessary decision right hon. Gentleman? to look again at the timetable for increasing the state pension age. The Bill amends the current state pension I am always happy to discuss the matter. There are age timetable to equalise men’s and women’s state pension complications, and there may be some issues about ages at 65 in 2018 and then progressively to increase the women, too, because contributions are an issue for state pension age to 66 by 2020. This new timetable will many women at the moment, so we cannot take these reduce pressures on public finances by about £30 billion things lightly. I recognise the work that the right hon. between 2016-17 and 2025-26. Gentleman has done, however, and I am very happy to The impact of the changes on women has been discuss the issue beyond this Bill, as is the Minister of debated enormously, focusing particularly on certain State, Department for Work and Pensions, my hon. cohorts. All but 12% of those affected will see their state Friend the Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve pension age increase by 18 months or less. I recognise Webb). For the purposes of the Bill, however, the right that some 1% of those impacted will have a state hon. Gentleman will forgive me if I stay to the point pension age increase of two years, but it none the less that we are going to equalise the retirement ages for remains the case that those reaching state pension age in men and women. The only question is, at what point? 2020 will spend the same amount of time in retirement Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East as expected when the 2007 Act timetable was being Cleveland) (Lab) rose— drawn up. That is an important factor. There will be no change to the amount of time that they will spend in Mr Duncan Smith: I am going to make some progress, retirement—some 24 years, on average. In fact, the but I give way to the hon. Member for St Helens North women who are affected by the maximum increase will (Mr Watts). still, on average, receive their state pension for two and a half years longer than a man reaching state pension age Mr Watts: The Secretary of State seems to indicate in the same year. that there is a potential practical problem. Is it not the Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): Which of the facts case that when someone nears retirement age the that the Secretary of State has cited was he unaware of Department looks at how many stamps they have paid 12 and a half months ago, when in the coalition agreement and how many contributions they have made, which the Government signed up to not introducing these must mean that it keeps track of how long people have changes before 2020? been working? That would resolve the problem mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Mr Duncan Smith: As a coalition, we are, and continue North (Malcolm Wicks). to be, bound by the agreement. [Interruption.] The hon. Lady can shout at me in a second, but let me try to Mr Duncan Smith: As I understand it, the pre-1975 explain. There is a slight problem with that element of data are very patchy and messy. I do not want to get the coalition agreement. It was done in that way at the sucked into this debate now, tempting as it is, and never time, and that is fair enough, but we have since looked to get on to the rest of the Bill; I do not think the hon. at it carefully and taken legal advice. The agreement Gentleman’s colleagues would thank me for that. I talks about men’s pension age being accelerated to 66, recognise the issue and I am happy to discuss it post the which would breach our legal commitment to equalisation Bill, but he will forgive me if I do not go down the road and then not to separating the ages again. There are that Labour Members want by adding that in all of a reasons for needing to revisit that, and we have done so sudden. I am not going to do that; we are going to stay and made changes. 49 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 50

Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): The coalition Rachel Reeves: Is the Secretary of State honestly agreement states that the parties agree to saying that the policy has been changed because of legal “hold a review to set the date at which the state pension age starts advice? If that is the case, will he publish that legal to rise to 66, although it will not be sooner than 2016 for men and advice today before the winding-up speeches and before 2020 for women.’” we vote? Will he also confirm that this is a breach of the The Secretary of State’s provisions clearly breach the coalition agreement? coalition agreement, so what has changed? Mr Duncan Smith: I do not publish legal advice, but if Mr Duncan Smith: With respect, I have just said that the hon. Lady reads the coalition agreement, she will there are certain elements that would not be legal. That see the reasons. I ask her to study it carefully. is all that I am saying. The hon. Lady can go on about I know that the hon. Lady is sincere in what she is this point as much as she likes, but I have answered her. saying, but I say one thing to her. She made it clear on She might not like my answer, but that is the one I have the media earlier that it is the Opposition’s policy to decided to give. The fact that the women who will be move the rise to 66 to 2022 and for it not to start before affected will remain on the same level of retirement, but 2020. That would cost £10 billion. She will presumably will be in retirement for two and a half years longer have worked that out. Where does she intend to get that than men is an important feature. I stand by the need to £10 billion? We have heard nothing from the Opposition equalise women’s state pension age in 2018. about debt reduction or the financing of future pensions. Joan Walley rose— She should know that her policy would cost £10 billion, and she should consider that important issue. Rachel Reeves rose— Rachel Reeves: The Secretary of State rightly Mr Duncan Smith: I give way to the hon. Member for acknowledges that we have put forward proposals that Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley). would save £20 billion. [Interruption.] Has he looked at whether the increase to 67 could be brought forward, Joan Walley: Will it not be 55-year-old women who which would take us up to a saving of £30 billion? Can pay the price? Will the Secretary of State give the House we find a compromise on those proposals, which would some indication that he will change his policy so as not not cost women aged 56 and 57 so much money? to discriminate against that cohort of women? Mr Duncan Smith: We agree, then, that the hon. Mr Duncan Smith: It will disappoint the hon. Lady, Lady’s proposals would cost us £10 billion. We are on but I have no plans to do that. Second Reading, and if she wants to raise the same Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con): My right point or table amendments in Committee, she can do so hon. Friend is absolutely right in all that he is doing. No by all means. The Bill as it stands is exactly as we set one can object to the equalisation of pension ages for out, with equalisation of the age in 2018 and the rise men and women when we are fighting so hard for other to 66. I have no plans to make any changes to that. areas of equality. However, does he recognise that for a Several hon. Members rose— particular group of some 300,000 women born in 1954 the transition arrangements are rather more difficult Mr Duncan Smith: I am going to make a little progress. than for any other group in society? Although he should We have more time, and I will give way to other Members not change his policy, will he look at other ways to help later. that particular group of women? Mr Frank Field: Will the Secretary of State give way Mr Duncan Smith: As I have made clear and will on this very point? make clear later, the parameters of the Bill are clear and it is my intention to stand by those parameters. The Mr Duncan Smith: I wish to make a few points, then I ages will therefore equalise in 2018 and rise together to will give way to the right hon. Gentleman again. I think 66 by 2020. Of course, I am always happy to discuss I have been reasonably generous, and I plan to continue these issues with colleagues from either side of the to be. House, including those in the coalition. However, I As I said earlier, if we delayed the change as the hon. make it absolutely clear that our plan is to press ahead Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) suggests, it with the Bill as it stands. The ages will therefore rise would cost us something in the order of £10 billion. together to 66 by 2020. That would be an unfair financial burden, and it would Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con): Does my right be borne disproportionately by the next generation. In a hon. Friend not think that the criticisms from the country in which 11 million of us will live to be 100, we Opposition are rather rich? In September 2004, the then simply cannot go on paying the state pension at an age Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the right hon. that was set early in the last century. We have to face up Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan to that, and to the cost and affordability of state pensions, Johnson), told the TUC: in all the changes that we make. “This Government will not raise the state pension age”, If the last Government had managed to get re-elected yet Labour’s Pensions Commission reported in 2005 they would be facing much the same decisions. I recognise that the pension age should go up, and in the Pensions the need to implement the change fairly and manage the Act 2007 the Labour party legislated to increase it for transition smoothly. I hear the specific concern about a men and women. relatively small number of women, and I have said that I will consider it. I say to my colleagues that I am willing Mr Duncan Smith: Indeed; I welcome that comment to work to get the transition right, and we will. Some from my hon. Friend. have called for us to delay the date of equalisation of 51 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 52

[Mr Duncan Smith] to consider with an open mind amendments in Committee and on Report, or other solutions that might be brought the pension age, but I wish to be clear again that this forward, to help that particular group of women? matter is the challenge of our generation, and we must face it. That is why we are committed to the state Mr Duncan Smith: My hon. Friend tempts me pension age being equalised in 2018 and rising to 66 in enormously, but she will forgive me if I do not give in to 2020. That policy is enshrined in the Bill. that temptation. Let me simply repeat what I said earlier—it is a bit like a recording, but I shall do it none Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): My right the less: we have no plans to change equalisation in hon. Friend is being fair and sensible in his approach, 2018, or the age of 66 for both men and women in 2020, and we admire his determination in introducing the but we will consider transitional arrangements. Bill. I accept the cost of widening the transition period for the 2.5 million women involved, but will he give Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): Does the particular consideration to the small group of 33,000 Secretary of State accept that some women in the group women born in March 1954, on whom the change will that we are discussing have already retired or signed bear down disproportionately harshly? Surely there is a early retirement arrangements in the belief that they way of finding a transition method that takes account would receive their state pension when they were 63 or of that small group of women. 64? The original equalisation was announced 25 years in advance. For some women, the equalisation that we Mr Duncan Smith: I repeat that the Bill that we have are considering is only five years ahead. Surely that presented on Second Reading will retain the dates that cannot be right when we are asking people to plan long we announced, but as I said earlier, I will quite happily term for their retirement. discuss transitional announcements with anyone who wants to do so. I do not rule out discussions, but we Mr Duncan Smith: I think that the hon. Lady refers plan to press ahead with the dates that I set out at the to people who have retired early, at around 57, as far as beginning of the process. I can tell from her calculations. Other than that, I do not think that there is a huge difference. I recognise Mr Frank Field: The Secretary of State keeps insisting what their due would have been, but the change is no that he wishes to be fair, but the country increasingly different thereafter for all the others. I acknowledge her thinks that he is being unfair to a particular group of point—I am sure that we will deal with it when we get women. The Opposition are not saying that his Department into Committee. should not deliver the savings set out, but we are suggesting that they could be delivered in a different way. If he Several hon. Members rose— wishes to treat men and women equally, so that they make an equal sacrifice for the contribution that he has Mr Duncan Smith: I have given way a lot and I am to make to the Exchequer, would it not be fairer to raise not sure that we are going anywhere new on this. I have the state retirement age for both and women more repeated myself several times. I will give way once more quickly rather than collect £2 billion from a particular and leave it at that. group of women? Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP): I Mr Duncan Smith: I think I have already covered that want to emphasise the point that the hon. Member for ground. I recognise the right hon. Gentleman’s concern, Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg) made about people but I will not repeat what I have already said, because I who have already retired. The latest health statistics do not think the House would appreciate that. show that healthy life expectancy for women and men does not necessarily keep pace with actual life expectancy. Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): I welcome the Secretary Many women in their 60s are trying to wind down their of State’s comments about his willingness to consider working hours because they are in poor health. The key transitional arrangements. My constituents, the class point is not equalisation, but that people have not had that left Foxhills comprehensive school in 1970, who time to plan for it. It is a great burden on people in the were all born in 1953-54, have written to me to ask why latter stages of their career who suffer ill health. the pensions goalposts should be moved twice so close to their retirement. What would he say to those women? Mr Duncan Smith: I fully recognise the hon. Lady’s point. It applies to the whole debate. One could argue Mr Duncan Smith: The only answer is that, so far, it is that even an extra year’s planning does not allow people seven years away for women. I recognise the concerns, time if they are not well. People living longer but being but I have heard letters from the public stirred up by a more ill is an issue for the health service—it is already number of people, and the facts have been simply having an impact on the health service. It is a reality—and incorrect. I am trying to set out the facts as we see them. a good thing—that people are living longer and are able The hon. Gentleman may disagree with us, but often to enjoy their retirement properly. For the most part, people fear that something is going to happen overnight. they can do that in good health, but I recognise that There is some warning. there are problems for those in poor health.

Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): I think there Mr Watson rose— is general acceptance that with increased longevity, the pension age needs to be considered, including the current Tom Blenkinsop rose— unfair differentiation between men and women. However, there is a particular group of women who will be badly Mr Duncan Smith: Hon. Members will forgive me if I affected. I welcome the Secretary of State’s saying that make some progress. I gave way to the hon. Member for he will consider transitional arrangements. Is he willing West Bromwich East (Mr Watson) earlier, and, although 53 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 54

I did not give way to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough blunder, and the poor Secretary of State is forced to sit South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop), others there in the middle as the House of Commons’s very want to speak, and I must conclude. own Captain Chaos. All the changes should be put in the context of our recent Green Paper, which set out plans for fundamental Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con): I thank reform of the state pension. They include the option for the shadow Minister for giving way—I almost thanked a single-tier state pension, set above the level of the “the Minister” in a throwback to another day. means test, which would provide a decent foundation Somebody—I am not sure who—left a note saying income in retirement for many of the next generation, that all the money had been spent. Does the right hon. who might otherwise be forced to live in poverty. Gentleman agree therefore that some measures that we Importantly, that includes many women and self-employed could not have predicted when the previous Administration people who have tended to suffer poorer pension were in power are now necessary, such as the ones outcomes in the past, particularly women with caring proposed today? responsibilities. The changes will be very beneficial for them. The Bill is therefore only part of the process, Mr Byrne: Perhaps the hon. Lady would like to but it is critical as we take the necessary steps for the reflect on why, just over 12 months ago, the Government next generation. I believe that those are responsible whom she is so proud to support set out a policy in choices for Britain, but responsible government is not direct contradiction to the one proposed in the Bill. I always easy government. It involves commitment, tough look forward to seeing which way she votes and how she decisions and a willingness to stay the course. We will justifies that to her constituents. not change from that—we will stay the course. We must This afternoon, we must try to bring some order to try to secure our children’s future. The tough decisions that confusion, and establish which clauses we agree on, are enshrined in the Bill, which I commend to the and which clauses the Government—and, I might say, House. the Treasury—need to rethink. The Secretary of State began with automatic entitlement, on which there is a 5.9 pm measure of agreement—it is a rock that we should hang Mr Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab): on to in that regard. The proposal for automatic enrolment The debate is extremely important and I am glad that of workers into workplace pensions is to be retained, the Secretary of State approached his remarks with which is important, because as a country, we under-save such care. It is an important debate because our treatment for pensions. In fact, 7 million could be under-saving for of older people in our country is one of the most their retirements. Bringing those people into a pension important ways in which we judge the health of a system and creating a national pension scheme into society. Those people have made our country what it is which they might opt could lead to a step-change in today, and, in their retirement, we respect and honour a savings in this country. lifetime’s work. The previous Government were very careful to build Frankly, when we came to power in 1997, too few of that consensus, which we did patiently, beginning with our older citizens enjoyed either that honour or that the noble Lord Turner’s commission. I am grateful that respect. Nearly 30% of our pensioners were forced to the Government have not junked that proposal, but it is live in poverty. The state pension had declined from deeply regrettable that they are increasing the salary 20% to just 14% of average male earnings. That is why threshold to entitle an individual to auto-enrolment. It we set about changing that picture with such speed, is also regrettable that they are introducing a three-month passion and determination. That is why we lifted 1 waiting period before people opt in. million pensioners out of poverty; why we lifted gross I understand the trade-offs that the Secretary of State income for our pensioners by more than 40%; why we is trying to make, but frankly, he has made the wrong ensured that no pensioner must live on less than £130 a call. Why? The first reason is that the salary at which week; why we introduced the winter fuel allowance, free someone is automatically enrolled will be raised from off-peak travel on buses and free TV licences; and why £5,000 to nearly £7,500. The impact of that will hit we increased tax thresholds to ensure that 60% of 600,000 people—they will be much less likely to opt in pensioners now pay no tax. We are proud of our record. to long-term savings. If the Government raise that It is now set out in the Government’s own figures that threshold in line with the coalition’s ambition to increase pensioner poverty in this country is at its lowest level for the income tax threshold to £10,000, nearly 1 million 30 years. people will be excluded, three quarters of whom will be In dealing with such long-term issues, the House women. Their loss, potentially, is £40 million of employer could legitimately have hoped that the Government pension contributions. would have built on those changes in a careful and The Government are proceeding in full knowledge of consensual way. Instead, they have built nothing but that. There is no defence of ignorance. Their review confusion. Last Monday, the Secretary of State had to states: slap down his colleague, the noble Lord Freud, on “Many or most very low earners are women, who live in whether there should be a cap on benefits; on Wednesday, households with others with higher earnings and/or receive working we had the spectacle of the Prime Minister not knowing tax credits. These may well be exactly the people who should be the consequences of his own Welfare Reform Bill; and automatically enrolled.” today the Secretary of State has come to the Dispatch Yet the House has been presented today with proposals Box when this morning’s newspapers are full of stories that could exclude more than 1 million people. We of how his Bill might be shredded not in this House, but think, therefore, that the earnings threshold should be in the very Treasury that pushed him out to walk this looked at again. And if that idea was not bad enough, plank in the first place. It is U-turns, confusion and the idea of a three-month waiting period makes it worse 55 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 56

[Mr Byrne] In his own Department’s review, he said that he wanted to look at the “particular challenge” for and in itself could mean 500,000 fewer people enrolling “women pensioners. A group I have long worked for, and who are automatically in a pension scheme. The loss to them so often the poor relations in regard to pensions.” could be £150 million in employer pension contributions. I will let the House draw its own conclusions. One Put those two things together and the average man or moment the Pensions Minister is offering to protect woman could lose nearly three years of pension saving—a women pensioners, the next he is presenting proposals 7% reduction in an individual’s fund. I am afraid that that will punish half a million women with a bill for up we simply cannot support that measure. to £16,000. That takes me to the most audacious broken promise Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con) rose— of the lot—the proposal to single out a group of 500,000 of our fellow citizens, all of them women, and say to Mr Byrne: I will give way, and perhaps the hon. them, “You know your plans for the future? Well, you Gentleman can explain the Pension Minister’s change can put them in the bin.” The Secretary of State might of face. think it a relatively small and trivial number, but the Opposition do not. Richard Fuller: The right hon. Gentleman was giving a discourse on integrity in pensions provision under the Ben Gummer (Ipswich) (Con): Will the hon. Gentleman previous Government, which I think is important, because give way? many of my constituents will be worried about this issue, and will be looking for integrity. He is very good with numbers—it is when he has to add them up that he Mr Byrne: I will in a moment. has trouble—so I am wondering, on the point of integrity, This unfolding chaos has been impressive even for a could he answer this question? The Labour party has Government who have presided over U-turns on forests, recommendations for how best to treat the women he is sentencing reform and the reorganisation of the NHS, highlighting who are being impacted by the Bill, and because we thought we knew where we were. The coalition those recommendations are costed at £10 billion. In the Government made a wise move in appointing the Pensions interest of integrity, will he please advise me and other Minister to his brief—he is a man who knows a thing or Members where he would find the money? two about pensions. Indeed, in one of his first major speeches, he told his audience: Mr Byrne: Can the hon. Gentleman confirm that he “I have become known as something of a bore at pensions has seen the costings given in the parliamentary answer conferences.” provided by the Pensions Minister on 9 March 2011? We have no problem with that. Then we had the coalition Richard Fuller: I have not seen those costings, so the agreement. I do not know whether anyone remembers right hon. Gentleman can enlighten me further. the coalition agreement—it was important once. Page 26 reads: Mr Byrne: The Minister gave an interesting answer, “We will phase out the default retirement age and hold a because those costings say that if, for example, we review to set the date at which the state pension age starts to rise increased the retirement age to 67 by 2035—that is, if to 66, although it will not be sooner than 2016 for men and 2020 we accelerated the reform by one year—that would save for women.” £6.9 billion. However, if the retirement age was increased For good measure, the Pensions Minister got to his feet to 67 by 2034, by accelerating the increase by two years, a month or so later and said that the Government were that would save £13.7 billion. Therefore, the question committed to any change not being sooner than 2020 for us this afternoon is: how much will be saved by for women. Then, 118 days later, the Chancellor arrives accelerating the reform for those women who are now on the scene. He stands at the Dispatch Box and says having to retire later, and who therefore confront trying that to find all that money magically, in the space of just “the state pension age for men and women will reach 66 by four or five years? Has that been traded off against 2020.”—[Official Report, 20 October 2010; Vol. 516, c. 956.] other options, such as introducing advances in the retirement age later on? That is the question that we Yet buried in the fine print, we learnt the truth—not have to get to the bottom of in this Second Reading the Pensions Minister, the Secretary of State or the debate. Chancellor could bring themselves to that Dispatch Box and actually tell people straight that that policy set Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con) rose— out in the coalition agreement was absolutely worthless. The truth was set out in the depths of the spending Ben Gummer rose— review, page 69 of which read: Richard Fuller rose— “The State Pension Age will then increase to 66 for both men and women from December 2018 to April 2020.” Mr Byrne: I will give way in a moment. That is a promise well and truly broken. At least when Let us hear what the impact of the Government’s the Lib Dems changed their minds about increasing proposals will be, because the Secretary of State rather tuition fees, they could pretend that they were just glided over this point. Some half a million women will making things up to get elected, but this was a promise receive their state pension at least 12 months later than they made and broke in government. Just last summer, they had previously been advised, with 300,000 women— the Pensions Minister boasted of reforms in the system those born between December 1953 and October 1954— that he said included experiencing a delay of one and a half years. For 33,000 “those who the system has always missed out such as women and women—those born between 6 March and 5 April the lower paid.” 1954—that period increases to two years. For them, 57 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 58 the loss in state pension will be around £10,000. For “Surely not!”]—I know, shocking isn’t it?—who has those on full pension credit, the loss will be closer to seen her pension age increase, first by five years and £15,000. Those women, with five years’ notice of the now by a further year. However, does he accept that timetable change, have almost no time to prepare for there is an issue with rising longevity and that we their income loss. therefore need to push forward the retirement age of women such as myself? Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? Mr Byrne: Of course. The hon. Lady makes an Mr Byrne: In a moment. extremely fair point, and that is why, after the Turner We are talking about women in the age group that commission met and the Pensions Act 2007 went through was asked by a Conservative Government in 1995 to set this House, a clear timetable was set for how the state in train the equalisation of the state pension, a reform pension age should increase. [Interruption.] The Secretary that we accepted, because it came with time to plan. of State is muttering from a sedentary position about However, that cannot be said of today’s proposal. This how the longevity assumptions have now been increased. morning, Age UK warned that That is perfectly fair, and we should have a national debate about how the state pension age should be “a sizeable minority are not even aware of the 1995 changes with nearly a fifth expecting to receive their State Pension at the age brought forward; indeed, the Pensions Minister has of 60.” issued a consultation. It is just a shame that it closes on The Secretary of State’s proposals will now make that Friday, after this debate is concluded. worse. Richard Graham: The right hon. Gentleman made Richard Graham rose— two comments about how the Bill treats women. He estimated that the cost of the changes to some women Harriett Baldwin rose— would be £10,000. Does he not recognise, however, that Fiona Mactaggart rose— the change in the value of the basic state pension as a result of this Government’s commitment to linking it Mr Byrne: I will give way to my hon. Friend the back to earnings will be worth more than £15,000? Will Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart), then I will he also acknowledge that, as a result of the new flat-rate give way to Government Members. basic state pension being applied, a lot of women who would previously have lost out because of their caring Fiona Mactaggart: I heard the Secretary of State responsibilities will now benefit hugely? Does he not refer in his speech today to legal advice that said that agree that women will benefit from the changes in the the Government could not keep to their original proposals basic state pension in those two ways? in the coalition agreement. He did not make the House aware of why the Government cannot legally do what Mr Byrne: Let us take the hon. Gentleman’s second they originally intended, so has he made my right hon. point first. I understand that the proposal for a flat-rate Friend aware of why that is? pension is included in a Green Paper. It is therefore an Mr Byrne: My hon. Friend makes an extremely good early statement of the direction of Government policy. point, because I think that that was news to the House. Given what the Government have managed to do to We would certainly expect that legal guidance to be commitments in their coalition agreement, I am not published before we get to the Minister’s winding-up sure how much water that proposal holds. The hon. speech. That guidance is a material point in a debate Gentleman’s first point was more interesting, because that is important to many people, as well as many right he was comparing the benefit for someone on a pension hon. and hon. Members, because this Bill has such a under the lock introduced by the Government with a poor effect on women in this country—the people we pension that is linked to prices. Going into the election, represent. no party proposed to keep the pension linked to prices, so his calculation is purely fanciful. Indeed, the Pensions Richard Graham rose— Commission said that we should re-link pensions to earnings in 2012. That was in our manifesto, and that is Harriett Baldwin rose— what we would have done if and when we were returned Mr Byrne: In two minutes. to office. I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman cannot make up fantasy numbers comparing the reality— Michelle Mitchell, the charity director of Age UK, has said that Richard Graham: The right hon. Gentleman is generous “it’s difficult to see how women can plan properly when the government keeps moving the state pension age goalposts”. to give way again but, with all due respect to him, I am The director general of Saga has said that comparing the fact of what was delivered by one Government over 13 years with the fact of what has “to make just one cohort of women bear all the brunt of this in the very short-term will undermine the concept of planning for been delivered by this new Government within one year. retirement over the long-term and cause real distress to the The Gloucestershire Pensioners Forum, which was created responsible women who have made careful financial retirement by members of his own party precisely to campaign plans.” against the de-linkage made by the late Mrs Thatcher Can hon. Members tell me how this can possibly be when she was Prime Minister—[HON.MEMBERS: “She is justified? still alive.”] Indeed she is. I meant to say “the former Prime Minister”. The Gloucestershire Pensioners Forum Harriett Baldwin: I thank the right hon. Gentleman has now fully recognised the value of re-linkage, which for finally giving way. I speak with a lot of interest in this Government will introduce. It is a shame that the this matter, as a woman in her 50s—[HON.MEMBERS: right hon. Gentleman does not recognise these facts. 59 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 60

Mr Byrne: I am glad to hear that correction about he told the House on 10 March, Baroness Thatcher. I think that the hon. Gentleman “is estimated to be 40%.”—[Official Report, 10 March 2011; would also accept his Government’s own figures, which Vol. 524, c. 1266W.] show that pensioner poverty is now at its lowest level for What on earth are those women supposed to do with 30 years. I am sure that he would accept that pensioner the measures in the Bill? On 4 February he admitted incomes increased faster than gross domestic product that the median pension saving of a 56-year-old woman and faster than earnings over the past 13 years. That is is six times lower than that of a man, yet he tells us not why we are proud of our record of delivering on pensions. to worry because he has a plan. He has a word of reassurance—[Interruption.] The Secretary of State should Ben Gummer: In response to an intervention by the listen to the plan of the Pensions Minister. I think he hon. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart), the right will be rather pleased with it, as we were offered words hon. Gentleman said that the legal advice was news to of reassurance and comfort. On 14 February, the Pensions him. It was not news to the House of Lords, however, as Minister said: it was debated there on 15 February, at which point this matter was raised. Surely the real news appeared in the “One reassurance I can offer is that those women…will be weekend’s newspapers, which have provided yet another eligible to apply for jobseeker’s allowance”.—[Official Report, bandwagon for the right hon. Member to jump on. 14 February 2011; Vol. 523, c. 681-2.] They might, I think, call that the final insult. Mr Byrne: I do not know how much attention the There is not much that unites the House these days, hon. Gentleman has been paying to this debate, but we but concern about this Bill is fast becoming one of championed this issue before it came to the House of those causes. I understand that even the Department for Lords and as it went through the other place. We will Work and Pensions Whip, the hon. Member for champion it through the House of Commons as well, North (Miss Smith) who is not in her place on the until this bad Bill has been thrown out. Treasury Bench has said: Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): I agree that, “I’m pressing Ministers on this because a number of women have raised it with me, and it so happens that members of my own for a small group of women, the Bill is unfair. However, family are in this group. It’s certainly an issue I sympathise with I was pleased that the Secretary of State said that he greatly.” would be happy to look at transitional arrangements. Her concern is widespread. I believe that the hon. The right hon. Gentleman has been very good at criticising Member for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott) has told no the Government, but will he please tell the House what less than the Deputy Prime Minister: the Labour party’s plans are? “I agree with the Age UK protestors: these changes should be Mr Byrne: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for reconsidered.” decoding the Secretary of State’s remarks and putting Nearly half of Liberal Democrat MPs have signed an on record that there will be transitional arrangements. I early-day motion that says that the Government should heard about that only by looking this morning at certain “rethink its retirement timetable in the Bill so that these women blogs written by Liberal Democrat Members, who also have a fairer chance to plan and save for their retirement.” expressed great confidence that there would be a Tonight, there is a chance to put a vote behind those compromise on this. We look forward to hearing a lot words. more about what that compromise will be. It is a shame that it is not in the Bill in time for this Second Reading Who will vote to support the Pensions Minister? debate. We would all understand the logic of this if we Once, he never tired of telling the Tories about the error heard a little more from the Secretary of State about of their ways. He was the man who once said: why the Government are introducing this measure. “Pension policy needs to be stable and predictable years ahead, The truth is that the Secretary of State used as a not made up on the back of a cigarette packet.” justification for his argument the idea that women in That was still there on his website, www.stevewebb.org, this position will somehow be living that much longer to on 6 October 2009. Alongside it, I found another rather enjoy their new pension. Well, they will draw cold apposite quote: comfort from that. The point is that it is simply not “It is typical of Tory policy to hit the poorest the hardest.” realistic for women in their late 50s, who are truly fearful about being given no time to adjust to their loss That is still there on his website. This is the Pensions of income. Surely that is the critical point for us this Minister who said: afternoon. Women in their later 50s will have earned “As ever when it comes to pensions, it is as if women are an less over their lifetime; they have lower state pension afterthought. That is clearly not the way in which to change state and private savings than men; many have been unable to pension ages.”—[Official Report, 9 March 2010; Vol. 507, c. 33WH.] join a workplace pension and have interrupted their That was not on his website. That is what he said in the careers to look after their family; many will have stood House of Commons in March last year. Tonight, we down from jobs on the understanding that they would have the chance to help the Pensions Minister stand by get that state pension early. his words and his record. I think that we should help These are not simply my assertions; they are the him with his honour. Government’s own facts. The Pensions Minister was This is a Second Reading debate. We are supposed to forced to tell my hon. Friend the Member for Leeds be debating the principles of the Bill and we are then West (Rachel Reeves) that 40% of women aged 56 have asked to vote on those principles. We are asked to do no private pension wealth: this when it is perfectly clear that the Government no “The proportion of women aged 56-year-old who have no longer believe in the Bill. We are privy to reports in the private pension wealth”, newspapers that the Government might be working on 61 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 62 another U-turn. I am not sure whether it is Conservative hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) or Liberal Democrat Members who are behind it, although in full flow. I have often wondered how he managed to I know who will claim the credit. The Secretary of State reach such an elevated position in Government in such told the Financial Times today that there are “issues and a short time, and having listened to him today, I am still concerns” that need sorting out, while senior Ministers, wondering. says the Daily Mail, I was staggered by the right hon. Gentleman’s opening “are telling the Chancellor he must think again.” remarks, in which he said how proud he was of his The Secretary of State, it says, is “sympathetic”. I have Government’s record on pensions. Is he utterly unaware to ask, then: why are we voting on a Bill that the of the destruction of the private pensions system in our Government do not believe in? The Chief Secretary country wrought by his former leader, and of the revelation does not believe in it; the Pensions Minister does not that when the Labour Government were elected in believe in it; half of the Liberal Democrat Members do 1997, the National Association of Pension Funds said not believe in it; the Tory Whips do not believe in it. that the end of dividend tax credit would mean the end What on earth are we doing going into the Division of at least half the defined benefit schemes in our Lobbies to vote to punish half a million women through country? In fact, we have seen much more than that a Bill that no one believes in? Will the hon. Gentleman brought about as a direct result of the Labour Government’s answer that question now? policy. I believe that it was forecast to cost our private pensions system at least £50 billion. Is the right hon. The Minister of State, Department for Work and Gentleman proud of the fact that under a Labour Pensions (Steve Webb): It is unclear whether the right Government a record number of pension funds closed hon. Gentleman is going to vote against Second to new business? Is he proud of the record of a Labour Reading—he has not said so yet. On the assumption Government who gave pensioners an increase of merely that he is, he would have to find not just the £10 billion pence? I can tell him that people in my constituency that his hon. Friends want to raise, but the £30 billion remember that event. that this Bill saves. Where will he find £30 billion when all the money is gone? Sheila Gilmore: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

Mr Byrne: I am glad that the Minister has raised that Jonathan Evans: I will in a moment—unlike the right point. His own consultation, which closes on Friday, is hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill, who was examining the question of how savings can be made not prepared to hear these remarks from me. through acceleration of the granting of the state pension Two years ago, the state earnings-related pension age later in life. That is an issue that should have been scheme was not increased by even one penny by the brought to the House for debate before we were asked Labour Government. That is an illustration of how to debate egregious measures that will hit half a million much we can trust Labour on pensions. women. We should re-examine the timetable for the raising of the retirement age to 67, but that must be Sheila Gilmore: Government Members constantly done on the basis of equal treatment of the sexes, and raise the subject of the 75p pension increase. It is not the principle that people should be given time to prepare. necessarily a choice that I would have made, but it is the We are sick of this confusion. We are sick of this choice that the Labour Government made at the time. chaos. We say to the Government today, “No more: you The hon. Gentleman should bear in mind that that need to get a grip. Take this Bill away, and bring us a increase was introduced during the first couple of years plan that you have had the decency to half think through.” of that Labour Government, when they were following “The critical factor in pension arrangements is certainty. People Conservative financial rules. need to be able to plan with certainty”.—[Official Report, 11 January 2011; Vol. 342, c. 179.] Jonathan Evans: I am trying to get my head around Those are not my words, but the words of the Pensions the idea of Tony Blair standing at the Dispatch Box and Minister who is responsible for the Bill. Tonight the taking his instructions from my right hon. Friend the House will be asked to vote on a broken promise. We Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague). It is a little urge the Government to think again. We shall vote to bit too difficult for me to accept. oppose the Bill, and I urge others to do the same. I think it important for us to recognise real concerns that have been raised throughout the country.All Members Several hon. Members rose— of Parliament have received many letters, e-mails and other representations relating specifically to the proposals Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. As to increase the age at which the state pension kicks in Members can see, this is a popular debate. Although I and the impact that that will have on a number of am not introducing a time limit at this point, if Members people, not least women. do not exercise restraint themselves, one will be introduced. Mrs Anne Main (St Albans) (Con): Before my hon. 5.36 pm Friend moved on from his powerful previous argument, I wish he had remembered to add to his list the discreditable Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con): Let me begin way Equitable Life victims were treated. Their pension by drawing the House’s attention to the Register of shortfall dilemmas were kicked into the long grass for Members’ Financial Interests, which shows my connections many years. with the pensions industry over many years. As you know, Mr Deputy Speaker, you and I entered Jonathan Evans: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the House on the same day back in 1992, but this is the making that observation, but I hope she will forgive me first opportunity that I have had to observe the right for not going down that road. If we were to do so there 63 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 64

[Jonathan Evans] I am unsympathetic to the arguments about that specific cohort of women who are affected in a particularly would be no time left for the debate in hand, because we negative way. would all be pointing out the many Labour shortcomings I know there were debates on these measures in the on pensions. other place, but I am not persuaded that we must defer There has been a lot of misinformation about the taking them to beyond 2020. I am not going to talk proposals we are debating. I listened to a staggering about the implications of the equality legislation so example of that at 9.30 this morning on Sky News, often supported by Opposition Members, even though when the otherwise excellent Charlotte Hawkins that may have led to a situation whereby what was said that today we were going to vote on a proposal stated in the coalition agreement cannot now be put to make women work a further five years before into effect. However, what I am certainly uncomfortable receiving their pensions. It amazed me that that could about is any woman having to wait more than an be said; I am sure it must have been a slip of the tongue. additional year. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of Later, I opened my e-mails and came across a letter State will be aware that Sally Greengross—Baroness from a lady who will be required to wait a further two Greengross, a Cross Bencher widely respected in this months as a result of these proposals, but who stated area—put forward a compromise proposal that has that she believed she will have to wait a further six years. much merit, based as it is on the idea that no woman That highlights the exaggerations, and in some cases the waits for more than a year. The restriction was limited dishonesty, in the campaign that has been waged against in that way, and the measure was exceptionally intelligently the proposals. crafted. I have read Lord Freud’s responses to this debate. He Harriett Baldwin: Did my hon. Friend also see last said that the proposal would cost not £10 billion, as the week’s Age UK survey, which found that 20% of the Opposition suggest, but only £2 billion. Given that I women affected by the previous Government’s changes want to husband public resources—and that we apparently to equalise the pension ages of men and women had not have the Opposition’s support for shifting retirement realised what was going to happen to them? ages forward from 2034 and 2044 to dates that are significantly earlier, saving perhaps £2 billion—I am Jonathan Evans: Indeed, and one of the difficulties in much more attracted to the idea of matching that this regard is to do with the first change, to which saving and making far greater savings elsewhere. almost all e-mails refer: that women were getting the Lord Freud responded to the debate by pointing out pension at 60 and that that is now gradually being the gender equality legislation—the equality provisions moved up to 65. The right hon. Member for Birmingham, of European law—that might make this a difficult Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) referred to his family being proposition. However, I am not persuaded that my right affected. Well, my wife is affected by these changes, but hon. Friend the Secretary of State’s Department lacks we in this House were aware of them because we minds sufficiently sharp to overcome this difficulty. legislated for them in 1995. [Interruption.] Yes, we have [Interruption.] Yes, I am absolutely sure that the Minister known about them, but we have known about them of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the hon. only here, because there has not been much dissemination Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb), could of this information outside the Chamber to the rest of draft the legislation required; but if not, he has all the the public. [Interruption.] I am grateful to the hon. necessary skill within his Department. Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) for indicating I am very happy to tell all of my constituents who that that is so. The idea that the retirement age have written to me on this issue that, because of what is might then be moved up to 66 is not new. It was debated happening with longevity, it is fair, if we are asking men in this House back in 2007, and legislation was put on to wait a further year, to ask women to wait another to the statute book. What we are doing now is moving year. There are those who say it is a double whammy the first of these dates forward, and in my view that is because we are also seeing equalisation from the age necessary. It is perfectly clear that a significant saving of 60, but that is already a part of the architecture and will be made. cannot be taken into account. I am certainly prepared The Secretary of State made a typically sensitive to argue that case. address, which was well received on both sides of the I want to make two final points that are House, and not only because he said he was prepared to connected not with this issue but with other aspects listen. I am staggered that any Minister who says they of the Bill. In it, adjustments are made to the financial are prepared to listen to an argument is treated with assistance scheme. Many of my constituents have contempt from the Opposition Benches. [Interruption.] been affected by the collapse of Allied Steel and Wire. Absolutely: it is an indication of what Labour Members On the question of the general attitude of Labour were used to when their party was in government. I toward pensioners, many of ASW’s pensioners know commend my right hon. Friend on his approach, however, the “assistance” they got from Labour: none and I am impressed by the sum of £30 billion. whatsoever. That is the reality. However, the truth is The Opposition propose that we should not take that, under the financial assistance scheme, many these steps for a while, and that we should instead people are not even going to get the 90% that was return to a 2020 or 2022 timetable. The argument that flagged up as their likely reimbursement. I hope we get everything the Government do is being done too fast is opportunities to address that issue. I am looking across a familiar Opposition refrain. It in effect suggests that at my hon. Friend the Member for Arfon (Hywel we can somehow just pass the responsibility on to Williams)—I do not know whether I should call him my succeeding generations and not grasp it ourselves. I hon. Friend; he might be offended by that. My hon. think we must grasp it ourselves, but that does not mean colleague and I have discussed this issue, and it is 65 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 66 important that we return to it to address some of the 5.51 pm injustices in the operation of the financial assistance scheme as it affects ASW pensioners. Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Cardiff North (Jonathan Evans), but I will disagree with quite a bit of Malcolm Wicks: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? what he said. Jonathan Evans: On that issue only, yes. I am disappointed about the change in the financial assistance scheme from the retail prices index to the consumer prices index, particularly in relation to Richards Malcolm Wicks: Will the hon. Gentleman at least Textile factory in Aberdeen, which went bust with the acknowledge, in fairness, that it was the last Labour collapse of its pension scheme. Although the very hard Government who set up both the financial assistance work of many Labour Back Benchers ensured that scheme and the pension protection fund, which, whatever those pensioners did not lose all their money, they still the difficulties, have helped many tens of thousands of feel aggrieved that they do not have the same cover as people who were going to lose their pensions? those who subsequently entered the pension protection fund and that they do not get quite as much as those Jonathan Evans: The right hon. Gentleman and I covered by it. have known each other for many years and he knows I have the highest respect for him. I certainly accept that Let me start by saying which parts of the Bill I agree we eventually ended up with that legislation, but it took with to show that not everything in it is bad, although a long time to get there. However, he was material in quite a lot is. I agree wholeheartedly with the lifting of trying to achieve that. the default retirement age and I only wish that my Government had done that. I have a friend who has Let me also say a word about the effects of auto- been told by his employer that he has to retire at 65 and enrolment. I was staggered to hear the right hon. Member he does not want to, but unfortunately his birthday falls for Birmingham, Hodge Hill tell us that he does not like on the wrong side of the divide. the proposals on auto-enrolment. I have to say that I am concerned about the impact of our continually increasing I am also very glad that the Government are going the personal allowance—as I understand it, that is ahead with the national employment savings trust. There going to be part of our policy—if we are just going to was a bit of worry at the time of the election that some link the personal allowance figure to the level at which people in business who were not too keen on it, particularly auto-enrolment kicks in. I am reassured by what my on auto-enrolment, might put pressure on the coalition right hon. Friend the Secretary of State says about Government, who I am glad resisted. NEST is certainly keeping this under review, but the movement from the way forward for occupational pensions, to ensure £5,000 to £7,000 is not, as described by the right hon. that there is pension cover for everyone and that most Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill, an attack on people will not have to depend on the basic state pension poorer workers. The reality, on the information that we as their sole income in retirement. That is very important. have, is that those people would be worse off if they I also agree with the proposal to bring auto-enrolment were within the scheme. forward to July 2012 for large companies. If they are ready to go, the sooner the scheme gets up and running Mr Duncan Smith: May I tempt my hon. Friend with the better and the sooner it is tested the better, because a thought about why the right hon. Member for part of the reason for rolling out auto-enrolment is to Birmingham, Hodge Hill made such an issue of this? I test how it works in practice. wondered whether he was searching for a reason to vote So those things are all good, but that is as far as that against the very policy that his Government, when in goes and there are issues of concern. Like my right hon. power, wanted to bring in, because there is nothing else Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill in it with which Labour disagree. (Mr Byrne), I am concerned about the lifting of the auto-enrolment earnings threshold by £2,500. I tried to Jonathan Evans: I am aware that the Forum of Private intervene about this early in the Secretary of State’s Business does not like the fact that the Government speech, but lots of other people were jumping up and have not made more adjustments in this area, and of down at the time. The problem is that low earners might course the Government would like to have a situation in not always be low earners. Auto-enrolment is important which all parties were on board at the end of the review, in getting people into the scheme as soon as possible but the proposal of the right hon. Member for Birmingham, and in ensuring that even low earners are enrolled in a Hodge Hill has virtually no supporters, save perhaps for pension scheme. If those people continue to earn similar those within the union movement—surprise, surprise. amounts for the rest of their working life, the scheme The reality is that the proposals we are taking forward might not have the returns that they would expect, but are overdue, but there has been too much misinformation no one knows, at the start of their working life, what about this change. Ultimately, I want to see a situation their eventual earnings will be and we should always err in which no woman has to wait more than a year longer on the side of caution in ensuring that people enrol. The than she had expected to wait, but the linking of that raising of the threshold could result in about 600,000 issue with a 25-year lead-in to the equalisation of pensions people not being enrolled who otherwise would have at 65 by those engaged in this campaign has been been. It has been said that those people could opt in, deliberately misleading and has not served the interests but it is highly unlikely that many people on such low of all the people who have written to us. incomes would do so. If the Government introduced a foundation pension or a pension for the state, which the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Thank you for Secretary of State put into context, the scheme would your time constraint. make a difference for people making such low contributions. 67 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 68

[Dame Anne Begg] Dr Whiteford: Does the hon. Lady share my concern that the healthy life expectancy for men in Scotland is Even someone earning just over £5,000 a year could currently 60 years and for women is 62 years? In that make a valuable contribution to their eventual occupational context, a dramatic increase in the pension age for those pension. people is simply displacing on to the benefit system the I worry about that issue and I worry when I hear that burden that will have to be met. the threshold might go up to £10,000 or more in future, Dame Anne Begg: Indeed. The hon. Lady says more because the whole point of auto-enrolment and of eloquently what I was trying to say about displacing NEST was to make things easy, to make belonging to people out of pension age into the working age poor. an occupational pension fund a no-brainer and to There is nothing to be gained for those people if all we ensure that everyone who was in work would are doing is delaying when they get their state pension. automatically pay into an occupational fund. People There will be the odd situation that when people retire, who are not auto-enrolled and who are not in the their income will go up, rather than people being able to pension fund will lose out on the employers’ contributions work until they reach retirement age. as well, so they will lose out not only on their potential pension earnings towards the end of their life but on Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab): Does the what we often think of as deferred wages in the employers’ hon. Lady agree that, as we are coming out of carers contribution. week, the Government should remember the 37% of I am also concerned about the introduction of the women affected by the state pension age increase who three-month wait, for many of the same reasons I will not be in the work force in the last years of their have just given. The shadow Secretary of State has working lives, as the Government call it, and who have already made the arguments, which are important to responsibilities caring for an elderly or ill relative or for remember. their own grandchildren? They will be among those who suffer most as a result of the increase. All those issues could probably have been swallowed if they had been the only things we were concerned Dame Anne Begg: There are much wider issues with about, but the big sticking point in the Bill, which I raising the state pension age such as the fact that, suspect most Members will be talking about this towards the end of their working life, many people may afternoon, is the acceleration of the state pension age, start to take on less paid employment because they have particularly the anomaly that hits the 500,000 women taken on caring roles. My generation of women is often who at very short notice will have to wait more than a called the sandwich generation in as much as they are year for their pension. I wonder whether the Government looking after elderly parents or other elderly relatives as have analysed exactly who will lose out as a result of the well as looking after their own grandchildren, to allow measures and which women will not be in work at the their sons and daughters to go to work. That is the age of 66, when they get their state pension. The figure generation that is caught by the anomaly—a generation of £10 billion has been bandied around for how much it of women who, perhaps, were not able to work throughout would cost not to go ahead with the proposal, but I their married life and have not necessarily built up the suspect that is a gross figure. I do not know whether the national insurance contributions that will give them a Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, full state pension. the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb), I am curious about the Government’s argument that has any idea how much the welfare bill will go up as a the flat rate pension will miraculously mean that all result of people’s falling out of work before they reach women will get a state pension, when my understanding the age of 66. is that that pension will still be based on the number of I agree that it is right that the state pension age years of national insurance contributions. That was should rise and indeed inevitable that it will rise, and I brought down to 30 years in the Pensions Act 2007, so accept that there are issues to do with longevity, but I women can already qualify. That Act also made it easier am concerned that we are potentially creating not a for carers to qualify for credits. I see the pensions pensioner poor but a group of people who become the Minister is about to jump up. Perhaps he can clarify new poor because they have fallen out of work in the whether the qualification for the flat rate pension will last years of their working life and are struggling to get not be 30 years of national insurance credits. by on benefits. It is not good enough for the pensions Minister to say that for anyone who falls out of work Steve Webb: The hon. Lady raises serious points. She before reaching the state pension age and who does not is absolutely right—for the basic pension, those credits have a pension they can draw early, there is always are already in place. The problem is that many of the jobseeker’s allowance or employment and support women we are discussing will have done their child allowance. The contributory element of JSA lasts only rearing before credits for the state second pension came six months and the Government propose that the in, so they will still retire with inadequate state pensions, contributory element of ESA will last only a year. which would be corrected under our proposals. Nowadays, women expect to have their own wages, but their qualifying for income-related JSA or ESA will Dame Anne Begg: So those women will still have to depend on the household income and whether they have the 30 years of credits, but in respect of the SERPS have a working partner. For many women, that misses element they will be the winners. But for every winner in the point. Quite a few women in my constituency say, all these changes, there will inevitably be losers, and “I’ve only got a pension of £1 a week.” What they mean there will be those who have paid their SERPS all their is that they have 60% of their husband’s pension and working life, including women who have paid the big £1 a week on top of that, but they still see that £1 a week stamp but not the small stamp. They are the ones who as their pension and they feel very aggrieved about that. often feel aggrieved. As the Minister knows, pensions 69 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 70 policy is a minefield covered in all those booby traps. As and it cannot be right that, because of the acceleration, soon as one presses down on one thing, another pops the Government are making them pay the price not of up, making it all very difficult. deficit reduction—according to the coalition, the proposals It is the group of women who were born in 1953 and will not apply until after the deficit is meant to have 1954 who are being expected, at very, very short notice—five gone—but of the longevity of other groups. years’ notice—somehow to change their whole financial I accept the Secretary of State’s point when he says planning for their retirement. As I pointed out to the that the coalition Government discovered that their Secretary of State in an intervention, when the equalisation proposed acceleration was illegal. It would probably be came in the warning that people were given ranged from illegal under European law because the Government 15 to 25 years. The evidence that I received from Age had already said that they would equalise the pension UK showed that 20% of women still have not realised age of men and women. That makes me wonder what that they are not going to get the state pension at 60 but else in the coalition document might be illegal. Has will have to wait until they are 64 or 65. someone been through it with a fine-toothed comb? If That proves not that we have been lax in trying to that was such a glaring error, have others sneaked into inform or educate women about what state pension they the coalition agreement, or was it just this issue where can expect, but that it takes a long time for such things someone failed to notice that signing up for the equalisation to sink in and for people to make arrangements. In the of the state pension age might not be fulfilled by the case of the current proposal, the women who will be words of the coalition document? most affected have just over five years’ notice. That is I will vote against the Bill because it fails on the basic unfair and I hope the Government will look again. principle of fairness, and in pensions policy fairness is all. When those now sitting on the Government Benches Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): In her intervention, were in opposition, fairness was all they talked about. the Chair of the Select Committee made the excellent The previous Labour Government went a long way in point that some of the women we are talking about have introducing fairness into the pensions system. Pension already left the labour market, having taken early retirement. credit was certainly a revolutionary policy that lifted Does she agree that the Government have a special many pensioners out of poverty and transformed the responsibility to those former Government employees incomes of many pensioners, who saw their incomes who they persuaded to take early retirement instead of double when Labour was in power. Fairness must be at a redundancy option and who now find that they will the heart of pensions policy, but the Bill does not pass not have access to a state pension as part of the plans the fairness criterion. that they would have made when deciding to leave their employment as civil servants? 6.10 pm Dame Anne Begg: I could not agree more. It is imperative Jenny Willott (Cardiff Central) (LD): The Bill has that we get that sorted out now. I am sure that other been somewhat hijacked by the women’s pension age local authorities will not be any different from my local issue, but as the hon. Member for Aberdeen South authority, which knows that cuts are coming. My local (Dame Anne Begg) has said, there is much in it that is authority managed to have a funding black hole of very good and extremely uncontroversial. There are £25 million. Before there was any economic disaster in other proposals that are good, but which some people any other part of the world, it happened in Aberdeen. I find controversial, such as those on judges’ pensions. will not talk about that being a Liberal Democrat Funnily enough, a number of speakers in the other council, but it was. That has resulted in large numbers place became extremely worked up about that. As the of local authority employees—not only women, but Secretary of State said, judges currently make no predominantly women—being offered early retirement, contributions to their pensions. The only thing they which councils have been encouraging their employees contribute to is survivors’ benefit, for which they pay to take because they do not want to go down the route the princely sum of 2.4% or 1.8% of their salary, of compulsory redundancies. depending on the scheme, but they get an extremely People have been signing up and are still signing up generous pension at the end of it. I understand that one for early retirement without the full knowledge that in six judges draws a pension of more than £67,000 a what they are signing up for is a lower pension that will year, which puts them in the top 0.01% of pensioners, as not be supplemented with the basic state pension when the employer contribution is around one third of the they reach the age of 63 or 64, as they thought it would salaries. The hon. Lady has just said that fairness is all be. In some cases, they may have to wait another two in pensions, but clearly that does not seem fair to an years. Their entire financial planning was based on the awful lot of people. At a time of great debate on public expectation that they would get whatever the basic state sector pensions, there is no reason for judges to be pension would be at that time. It is £105 now, so it will exempt from reform. There seems to be a clear consensus be more than that, and the flat rate pension may have in this place, if not in the other place, that that needs to come in. They were expecting at least another £100 a be tackled as soon as possible. week in the income that they have worked out they will I also welcome much of the rest of the Bill. The need to survive. introduction and simplification of many of the opt-out The short notice is the injustice. The Government arrangements is really important. The hon. Member for must look at this again. They cannot leave out this Aberdeen South and I were members of the Work and group of women, who did not have the chance to build Pensions Committee in the previous Parliament and did up their pension protection but who took on the burden a lot of work on the arrangements for the National of care in the community, saving the Government billions Employment Savings Trust and how to ensure that of pounds. The same group of women have had to fight people on low incomes are encouraged and supported many of the equality battles, yet it is being hardest hit, to save for retirement. Like her, I welcome many of the 71 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 72

[Jenny Willott] uprated by inflation, from 2016. For many people, particularly women in the cohort which has been Bill’s proposals and think that it is really important that referred to today, that would be a significantly higher the measures are being introduced. Hopefully, the tweaks basic state pension than they currently receive. There is will overcome some of the problems identified during particular concern about those women, many of whom the passage of the Pensions Act 2007, which most do not have private savings and do not necessarily have people supported. Many of the concerns that were a full contributions record, as we have discussed in raised related primarily to small businesses and those relation to the state second pension. The people who are on the lowest incomes and are covered by the Bill. likely to be penalised by the rising state pension age will I am also glad that the Bill will set up a system that benefit significantly from the introduction of a flat-rate will make it easier for people on low incomes to save, pension. because that has been a problem for far too long in this We should not be trying to tackle pensioner poverty country and needs to be tackled. Although the level of simply by increasing the burden on those in society who means-testing is still an issue and therefore for some of are working. Wages are flat at the moment and prices those on the very lowest incomes, as employers will also are rising, and the Secretary of State has laid out the contribute to pensions, it will be more worth while change in the ratio of pensioners to working people in under the system in the Bill and the previous Act for the population. We need to do something more more people to save. fundamental. We need to create a sustainable way of However, like the hon. Member for Aberdeen South, managing our ageing population, rather than continually I am afraid that I will do what I am sure everyone in the increasing the demands on taxpayers. The Turner debate will do and raise the concerns about the proposals commission and the 2007 legislation accepted the premise on the women’s state pension age. I am sure that you, that, as longevity increases, so the state pension age Madam Deputy Speaker, will be sick to the back teeth must rise, but we have now learned from the most recent of people complaining about the women’s state pension figures that the situation has changed even more than age by the end of the debate, as I am sure will the was understood when the commission carried out its Minister. [Interruption.] You are far too charitable, work. We need to take that into account if we are to Madam Deputy Speaker. have a sustainable pension scheme that people can trust I agree with the Government that the state pension for the long term. The Government are right to look at age needs to rise. In 1970, someone retiring at age raising the state pension age, and if the flat-rate pension 60 could expect to live a further 18 years. Last year, the is introduced in 2016, although hundreds of thousands figure was 28 years. There has clearly been a significant of women will have to work longer, they will get a better change in demographics in this country, which has to be pension in the end, which is a trade-off that many will reflected in our pensions system. We cannot expect feel is worth it. people to work until they drop, but the more time they As many Members have mentioned today, it is the spend in retirement, the more strain that puts on the cohort of women born in 1953 and 1954 who will feel public purse. the greatest impact of the change, particularly the 33,000 That issue goes hand in hand with pensioner poverty. born in March 1954, who will have to work two years The right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill longer. Like other Members, I do not believe that the (Mr Byrne), who is no longer in his place, talked about plans currently laid out are fair for those women. People the progress he felt the previous Government had made need time to plan for their retirement, as the hon. Lady on pensioner poverty. Progress was made, but last year for Aberdeen South said. A number of Members have there were still 2 million people of pension age living in said that those women will have five years’ notice, but poverty, which is unbelievably high for a rich country my understanding is that it will be seven years before such as the UK and a disgrace. Unless we seriously facing the situation, so I would be grateful if the Minister overhaul the pensions system, pensioner poverty will clarified that. Seven years is not a very long time in continue to be a problem. The longer people live, the which to plan whether to work for another two years. In less an occupational pension is likely to pay out, for order to keep the public support that we need for such those who are lucky to have them, and the longer they long-term plans, pensions must have full support across will have to live in poverty after they retire. this House and among the public as a whole. We must invest in the state pension in order to tackle pensioner poverty, which is one reason that I welcome Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): I concur with every the steps that the Government have already taken to single word that my hon. Friend says. Owing to the bring in the triple lock, which has been a Liberal difficult decisions that the coalition Government are Democrat policy for a number of years. By linking the making on the economy, I am confident that, by 2018, basic state pension to earnings and instituting the triple 2019, 2020, the challenges will have been met and the lock, pensioners will hopefully take home £15,000 more Government will be able to listen to Back Benchers over the course of their retirement than they would from all parts of the House and move the change back have done under the previous Government’s policies. to 2020. The difficult decisions that will have been made That will start to make a difference to levels of pensioner by then will mean that the economy is ready and able to poverty. sustain such a move. What I think will really make a difference is the Pensions Minister’s plan for a flat-rate pension, if and Jenny Willott: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, when he is able to introduce that and work it through and it will be interesting to hear what the Minister says the House. As has been announced, the plan is for all to that when he sums up the debate. I am sure that pensioners with contributions of more than 30 years to during the debate several suggestions will be made on receive a flat-rate pension of around £140 a week, how to tackle the issue, and that is one. 73 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 74

The changes have to feel fair, but the current proposals sure—of the Pensions Minister and of colleagues from do not. The hon. Member for Aberdeen South said that all parts of the House, who will be able to look at it, try fairness is extremely important, and as the Pensions to refine it and send it back to us in the best possible Minister has said it is extremely important that the shape. At that point, like all hon. Members, I will be basic state pension, whatever its structure, has to feel able to decide whether to support it in its entirety. fair, because it has to last a long time and be free from arbitrary political intervention. The current proposals, Sheila Gilmore: If the hon. Lady or other Members however, do not pass the fairness test. table an amendment in Committee on the issues that she says she is concerned about, will she vote for them, Mrs Main: The hon. Lady, who is making a powerful as she did not when the Welfare Reform Bill was in speech, seems, like me, to agree with an awful lot of the Committee? very good that is in the Bill, and it would be a shame to ditch the baby with the bathwater, as Opposition Members Jenny Willott: We have no idea who will be on the plan to do tonight. My hon. Friend the Member for Committee for the Bill before us, so I cannot possibly Cardiff North (Jonathan Evans) has come up with an comment on what amendments might or might not be interesting proposal, and her hon. Friend the Member tabled or on who might or might not support them. for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd) has just come up with The Government should, however, think again about one as well. Does she agree that Second Reading is the these plans and find a way to make them fairer for the time to do so and to take such ideas into Committee? worst affected women. We have already heard a number Like me, the hon. Lady will, I hope, have been encouraged of proposals, and I was pleased that the Secretary of by the sympathetic noises from Government Front State made it clear that he is open-minded and willing Benchers, who are listening to the sensitive arguments to listen to what options there are. It was important for from Government Members. us to hear that this afternoon.

Jenny Willott: I absolutely agree. As the hon. Lady Annette Brooke (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD): says, the point of Second Reading is that we have the I concur with my hon. Friend. The importance of today opportunity to air a whole load of different options and is that the strength of feeling about this one aspect of concerns about the Bill, and as she says also, there have the Bill is aired, that Ministers convey the feeling that already been a couple of proposals for tackling the there will be a response and, most importantly, that issue. I am sure that we will hear more as the debate there is a response that makes this part of the Bill fair. goes on. I completely agree that the Bill contains a huge Jenny Willott: I agree. My hon. Friend has spoken in amount that is valuable and important, so I am concerned the House in recent weeks on the issue and on her about the Opposition saying that they will vote against concerns about its fairness, and I am sure that Ministers it as a whole. Our constituents, living in our local are listening and taking that message on board. communities, will be disappointed that the Opposition I appreciate that this is a difficult and costly area in have taken that approach to the legislation and are not which to make any changes. The figures are mind-boggling, prepared to give a Second Reading to its positive elements. and a few months here and there will make a significant difference to the cost, but it cannot be beyond the wit of Dame Anne Begg: I am sure that the hon. Lady man to find a way to smooth the process in order to received a large number of e-mails and letters from her ensure that that small group of women does not end up constituents who are affected by this particular anomaly. being so badly affected. I have every faith in the Government Did any one of them say that she should vote for the and, in particular, in the Pensions Minister, who is Bill, or did they all encourage her to vote against it? generally regarded as one of the UK’s foremost experts on pensions. He has done a huge amount of work in the Jenny Willott: To be honest, I cannot remember past on women’s pensions, helping thousands of women whether anybody asked me to vote against the Bill. to get the money to which they are entitled, so I put him Most writers of the letters and e-mails that I have on notice today that I trust him to resolve the issue. I am received raised concerns about the particular proposal sure that, if he cannot do it, nobody can. in the Bill, and I agree with them. As I have already said, I share their concerns and have issues with what is 6.26 pm proposed, but the whole point of Second Reading is that we have the opportunity to raise our concerns and Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): The upshot of the Bill to send the Bill into Committee, where people will be is that many people will have to work longer than they able to go through it clause by clause, to debate what the expected, and at short notice. That is the point. People alternative may be and to have a chance really to will have made their plans, but they will no doubt have scrutinise it. Today’s debate is not the time just to chuck to be changed if the Bill goes through. it away. I am sure the Minister knows better than I that pension planning is a long-term business, and that is Dame Anne Begg: If there are no changes in Committee why there is such value in cross-party consensus, in and the Bill returns to the Floor of the House in the stability, in fairness and in any change being slow and same position as it is in today, will the hon. Lady vote clear. Those are, I think, the Pensions Minister’s own against it? views, and that is one reason why there have been constant problems since a previous Conservative Jenny Willott: I cannot possibly say what I will do at Government broke the consensus on pensions almost that stage, because we do not know what shape the Bill 30 years ago—a consensus that the Turner changes in will be in. I put the Bill in the safe hands—I am the 2007 Act re-established to an extent. 75 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 76

[Hywel Williams] publication “Regional Trends”. The average proportion of the population in the UK who are managers and I, too, have received a lot of correspondence, with senior officials is 15.6%, the figure for the south-east is constituents and others expressing lots of concern at 18.3%, and the figure for Wales is 13%. Managers and what they see arising from the Bill as a sudden senior officials will not be hit as hard by the changes, change, which, they also contend, does not have broad because they have other sources of pension income and support across the parties or among people throughout live longer. In Wales, we have fewer such people who are the UK. Some see the change as a fundamental break in able to depend on a decent pension and expect to live the social contract between government and people, longer; unsurprisingly, the south-east has many more. while others accept that as life expectancy lengthens so Likewise, in the case of process, plant and machine too must the length of the working life, but all object to operatives, the UK average is 6.7%, the figure for the the change in the implementation time scale that the south-east is 5%, and the figure for Wales is 7.3%. As Bill proposes. regards people in elementary occupations, the UK average Hon. Members have already said that an estimated is 11.1%, the figure for the south-east is 9.7%, and the 5 million people born between 1953 and 1960 will have figure for Wales is 11.8%. Workers and future pensioners to wait longer to reach state pension age. Although will be disadvantaged in Wales, as in the rest of the UK, the wait for the majority of people will increase by less but the effects there and in Scotland will be more than one year, about 500,000 women born between pronounced. October 1953 and April 1955 will have to wait more Plaid Cymru Members welcome the continuation of than an additional year and 126,000 women born between automatic enrolment in pension schemes. Given the December 1953 and October 1954 will have to wait up increases in short-term employment, casualisation and to two years, losing about £10,000 in pension. Those are multiple part-time jobs, we share Age UK’s concern the facts as we understand them. about the earnings threshold, particularly the possible Men and women on low incomes who are reliant on negative impact of the three-month waiting period and pension credit and have no private pension savings will its effect on staff who might not stay in the job for long be most affected by the changes, and we have many such enough. We have the same concern about those who people in Wales. A great deal has been spoken about the have multiple low-paid jobs and therefore may not gender effects of the potential changes, and women will reach the threshold and be excluded. be hit hardest, but there are also effects on disabled In a speech I made some months ago, I expressed people and potential effects on ethnic groups. reservations about the indexation process, so I will not We have also heard about class effects. I, too, have labour that aspect. My final point is about the Pension looked at the Age UK briefing, and it states for example Protection Fund, which was raised by the hon. Member that a higher percentage of people in social classes D for Cardiff North (Jonathan Evans) and is referred to in and E are unable to work on, with one third of such part 3 of the Bill. The PPF came about partly as a result women, at least, being in ill-health. Age UK also points of pressure put on the former Labour Government by out that awareness of the changes among people in Members in all parts of the House arising out of the classes D and E is very much lower. ASW steelworkers scandal: a very difficult situation in which the Government had to be persuaded—I use that There are also national and regional effects, which word advisedly—to act. Unfortunately, the ASW campaign have had less attention. The changes will hit some is still ongoing. I recently met some of the workers, and sectors of society harder than others, and we in Wales, I have tabled early-day motions and attended meetings as in Scotland, have more people in those sectors than on the subject, as has the hon. Member for Cardiff other parts of the UK. In Scotland, life expectancy is North. In November 2010, the pensions specialist Dr Ros four years below the European average at 76 for men Altmann suggested possible ways in which the coalition and 80 for women. Glasgow has the lowest life expectancy Government could assist the ASW workers. Will the in the UK—71.1 years for men and 77.5 for women. Minister tell us what progress is being made in that These people will be severely hit. case? That would go a long way towards responding to the campaign by those workers. Jonathan Evans: The hon. Gentleman is right about life expectancy numbers. Somebody with a fund who has a poor health record will get a bigger annuity than 6.35 pm somebody who has a healthy record. How would he Ben Gummer (Ipswich) (Con): The salient fact of this resolve that in terms of the state pension situation? He debate is that by the time it finishes at 10 o’clock, the seems to be saying that he would not change the current average age to which we and our constituents might arrangements. expect to live will have increased by an hour and a half. If I were to speak for 10 minutes or a quarter of an Hywel Williams: A large number of people are unable hour, which I will not, then merely in the course of my to get an annuity in the first place because they do not speech average life expectancy would have increased by have that sort of pension. Nobody is arguing against four minutes. I hope that that is compensation for what the fact that life expectancy is extending—of course, hon. Members are about to endure. that should be welcomed. However, the fact that the The simple fact of demography that for every hour change is being brought in quickly will particularly that passes 15 minutes is added to the age to which we, affect certain groups in relation to class, gender and as a population, can expect to live forces us to revisit the where they come from. state retirement age—the age at which people stop The effects in Wales will be much more pronounced. paying taxes and start depending largely on the fruits of That is demonstrated by figures for July 2009-10 on the others’ labours. It is a fact that is unlikely to change in composition of the work force taken from the ONS the half century to come. In fact, if the experience of 77 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 78 the past few years is anything to go by, the acceleration on the occupational schemes of previously nationalised of our expected mortality rates will only increase, rendering industries, because they have had a very adverse effect irrelevant and insufficient all the predictions on which on people who thought that they had funded schemes. we currently rely. There is near consensus that maintaining Those are the unfair and unsatisfactory parts of the the existing pension age is unaffordable and that we Bill, which I consider to be largely good. I understand should correct that by ratcheting up the state pension that the Opposition supported the change from RPI to age year by year to reflect increasing life expectancy. CPI, but on a temporary basis. With characteristic However, I am worried by the idea that by the mid innumeracy, they therefore lack the central challenge part of this century, asking people to retire at that confronts us, which is not just the deficit that we 70—incidentally, the age intended by Lloyd George in must deal with between now and 2016, but the period his great Act of 1908—will be seen as the way to fix this after that. There is an idea that in 2016 the deficit will problem, because we may not correct everything that we somehow come to an end, we will be finished with our hope to correct just by increasing the state pension age problems, and we can then extract the cheque book and doing everything contained in this excellent Bill. from our pocket and go on another splurge. That will Although I support the intention of the Bill and the sadden people, because if we did that, we would find immediate steps that it takes, the Government need ourselves with one of the highest debt to GDP ratios in rapidly to revisit the conventions and means by which the developed world—higher than most of our developed successive Governments address the central problem of competitors and significantly larger than almost all of increasing life expectancy and the effect of that on the our developing competitors, just at the point at which Exchequer and those working to fund it. Otherwise, we they move up the value chain to meet us on high-end will again end up in a situation that is unsatisfactory manufacturing, learning-based skills and value-added and inadequate. It is unsatisfactory because with every services. increase in the state pension age, we inflict another set At that point, we will be faced with a demographic of injustices and unfairnesses on those who are approaching scene that is not much altered from the one the Government that moment in their lives. The predicament of the look at now. We need only look at the support ratio to relatively small group of women we have been debating tell us that. It currently sits at about four workers per is a sure indication of far greater problems to come for pensioner—the lowest in the history of the state pension. Governments in future years. Under the Pensions Act 2007, it would decrease by 2023 Because we are facing this cross-generational challenge, to 3.11 workers per pensioner. That figure will improve it is incumbent on us to try to forge a consensus under the Bill to 3.35—a difference of 6%. At that point between the parties about the rules by which we deal we will still be slipping down, and none of this changes with pensions policy. One of those rules is suggested by the central projection to 2058—150 years after the the example of the women who are particularly affected introduction of the state pension—when there will be by the Government’s proposed changes. When times are 2.74 workers per pensioner. There will then be fewer normal—these are not normal times—there might be a than three workers for every pensioner they must support. rule whereby people are given at least 10 years’ notice Pensions are a double-sided promise. On the one before we change their pension entitlements or the age hand, we, as parties engaging in government or opposition, at which they can claim them. Perhaps the case of the must give people the security to know what they will class of ’53, as they call themselves, is the test by which receive in their retirement. That is why I urge the the Government will be measured in this respect. Government to look carefully at the women who will be Although I understand why the Government might particularly affected by this change, and at those who fairly ask that people work an additional year to deal are coming to the end of their working life in the public with the horrendous deficit and national debt we have sector. As many of their accrued rights as possible must been left, to ask a relatively small group of people to be respected, because that is what was promised to work an additional two years with six years’ notice is a them, whether or not it was prudent to do so at the time. very big ask, not least because it calls into question In understanding that, we have to be far more brutal other excellent parts of the Bill that are designed to with the younger generation, which has many more encourage saving. We cannot ask people to save and years to work. Frankly, younger people will not be able then give them no time in which to do so. I hope that in to have a pension of the size that their parents and considering a way to smooth the edge of this part of the grandparents have come to expect, because of the legislation, the Government will not only fashion a horrendous deficit and the enormous debt that we have compromise for the women who are being asked to been left by the previous Government—larger than work an additional 13 to 24 months, but thereby establish those of almost all our competitors around the world. the first set of conventions by which successive Governments As a result of that debt, we will have less to spend on can deal with this issue. education, training and infrastructure improvement. Another unfairness in the Bill, which was not intended [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Glasgow North by the Government, results from the change from RPI East (Mr Bain) smiles, but it is true that as a result of to CPI for uprating. Many of my constituents who are the actions of his Government, we have less to spend on on occupational schemes, mostly from British Telecom, things that will grow the economy and there will be have found that their pensions have been changed only fewer tax receipts to pay for the welfare state that we two years after they were renegotiated between the have come to expect as a nation. trustee and the pensioners. The trustee claims that it has been forced to do that by the rules of the scheme. My Jonathan Evans: I wonder whether my hon. Friend constituents and I would be interested to know the picked up on the remark from the right hon. Member degree of consideration the Minister gave to the effect for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne), when challenged that his changes to the uprating regulations would have on the cost of his proposal, that money could be raised 79 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 80

[Jonathan Evans] lives, so it was asked where their incomes would come from. Thus occurred the birth, more than 100 years ago by bringing forward significantly the current programme in this Parliament, of the first old-age pension. Much for retirement at the ages of 67 and 68. Perhaps we more recently, around the 1970s, Barbara Castle and should bank that promise from the Opposition before it other Secretaries of State realised that the national evaporates like so many of their remarks. insurance system was inadequate when it came to women’s caring responsibilities, and credits started to be built Ben Gummer: What I found surprising about that into it. comment from the right hon. Member for Birmingham, My question is whether, by introducing uniform state Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) was that it completely ignored pension ages—I listened with great care to what the the sensible intervention by his colleague, the right hon. hon. Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) said on the Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field), who made quite matter—we are now fashioning a policy that makes plain the difficulty of bringing forward the state pension sense given the different life cycles of people in this age rise too quickly because of its manifest unfairness country depending on their occupation and social class. on manual labourers, who have a much lower life expectancy than others. That is a central problem that we have to I think about my own family’s experience. My dad deal with and a reason why the state pension age will and my mum left school at 14 to work, and my dad had become inadequate. At some point, we have to address jobs in the market in Islington long before that age. At that unfairness, whether by measuring the length of that time, the vast majority of people left school at that period worked or by doing far more than has been done type of age. If they worked through to 65 or so, they so far to improve the occupational health of large would have been working for half a century or more. I numbers of people in this country. did not get my first proper job until I was 21. I remember We come back to the essential problem: there is not my nan from Islington—Hansard must record “nan”, only no money now, but there will be no money for not “nanny”, because I do not want to excite Conservative many decades to come if we are to have the money to Members—saying to me when I was 16, “Malcolm, why invest in growing our economy. Frankly, we will have no haven’t you got a job yet?” She just could not understand welfare state to pay for if we do not address these big why I was not yet working. issues now. We will be lying to future generations and My own three children were fortunate enough to go forcing upon them a generational theft if we are not to university and then do some postgraduate straight with them now about the reality that confronts qualifications—one of them very ably taught, by the them. That is my generation, as much as it is that of the way, by a young lecturer at Bath university, whose name hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves). We will I temporarily forget. I often wonder what happened to be expected to save considerably more and receive him. I refer, of course, to the Minister of State, the hon. considerably less from the state. [Interruption.] The Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb). My hon. Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown)—she is a children did not get their first proper jobs, rather than Whip and I will not criticise her—is huffing and puffing holiday jobs, until their early to mid-20s. That is a away, but the fact is that between 2002 and 2006, the pattern among certain middle class and professional structural deficit was run up, inflicting this problem on families. generations of people to come. The worst affected will be those on low incomes and the unemployed—the very Today, some people coming up to claiming their state people her party was founded to protect. pension will have left school at 15 or 16, but some will not have got their jobs until their late teens, early 20s or We must be honest with future generations and correct even mid-20s. Are we being sensible when we say that the small inadequacies in this Bill. I urge the Minister to people who have worked in hard, tough manual jobs for look carefully at the long-term reforms that are needed a very long time should be able to claim their state in our pensions system if we are not to come back here pension only at the same time as those of us from cosier year after year to let down pensioners on the promises professional and middle-class backgrounds? That is the that were given to them in ages past. issue that I wish to explore today. 6.48 pm The proposals in the Bill are based on certain assumptions, and two in particular. One is that the Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North) (Lab): Back in the generalisation about life expectancy is true for all 1940s, Aneurin Bevan referred to the ageing of our social groups. Others have questioned that assumption. population as the “peculiar problem” of the era. When I had an opportunity to intervene on the Secretary of one thinks of the controversies just of the last few State about it earlier, and I want to question it in a weeks over the national health service, the quality or little more detail. The Minister of State and the House lack of it in our care homes, and now the pension age, have heard my argument before. Alongside the gender one can see how prescient the Bevanite analysis was. issue, which is hugely important, there is the social I will argue that pensions policy is at its best when it class dimension, which the data show mainly affects has an understanding of the pace and grain of people’s men. It needs some airing and some debate, and I would lives and of the society—an understanding of how argue that it also needs some solution. There is the people work, their employment patterns, care patterns assumption about life expectancy, which is broadly true and family patterns. Looking back, one can see but with some important qualifications, and also the examples of that. Lloyd George—a reminder that there assumption that if we keep raising the state pension were once great Liberal reformers—was urged to introduce age—and occupational pension ages, by the way, although the first old-age pension, albeit at a slightly measly I know that is another debate—the market will respond 70 years old, because working people were, rather peculiarly and jobs will be available. I want to question that and in a sense for the first time, outliving their working assumption, too. 81 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 82

Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab): I was shocked I first wish to make my other contrarian point about when a constituent of mine, Mrs G. E. Smith, came in the general assumption that it will be all right if we keep to see my at my last surgery. She will be 60 next month, raising the state pension age—and indeed the occupational and she was hoping to retire. She works in an exhausting pension age. It is about employment patterns. At the cleaning job in a sawmill. I think Ministers have no idea moment it is not the case that 90%-odd of men and what life in hard manual work is. She is shattered and women are working until they are 65 and 60 respectively, wants to retire, but she has been told that she now has to and that if we keep increasing the pension age by a year go on another year, which will be injurious to her or two there will be jobs available. That is not the health. The Government have no idea of how what we situation at all. Labour force survey data show that used to call the working class suffer. almost a quarter of men aged 50 to 64, and more than a quarter of women aged 50 to 59, are classed as economically Malcolm Wicks: I imagine that that woman might inactive. Many of them are not working at the moment. have been categorised by the Office for National Why do we assume that there will be jobs for them if Statistics, rather inelegantly, as being part of the social they have to work for a few more years? More specifically, class of “routine occupations”. That includes many 39% of men aged 62 are currently not working. By the women who are cleaners, and men who are manual age of 64, the figure is 52%. Among women aged 58, labourers, van drivers or packers—heavily demanding two years before their current state pension age, 36% are work. Can they all look forward to living to 80 or, as the not working. The assumption that general life expectancy Minister likes to remind us periodically, to 100? Actually, increases will benefit everyone, and the at least implicit they cannot. assumption that jobs are available, are at least partly The class differences are most pronounced for men, illusory. but they also exist for women. Here are the ONS I am not challenging the demographic logic, or the statistics. Almost one fifth of men from the lowest fact the state pension ages—and, may I say in a reasoned social class—19%—die before reaching the existing pension way, occupational pension ages—have to increase. Of age of 65. We talk about pension ages, but sadly a lot of course they do. That is the logic of demography, and it these guys are already dead by that point. That 19% figure helps us safeguard our welfare state system. I ask, compares with just 7% from social class 1. For women, however, whether the situation is right for a man or the respective figures are not so stark, but 10% in woman who left school at 15 or 16. They may have had routine occupations die before the current pension age caring responsibilities or periods of unemployment, but of 60—not like my right hon. Friend’s constituent, I they will have essentially worked for 49 or so years. hope, but with that type of job—while the figure is just They currently get their pension at 65, in the case of 4% for those from the professional classes. men. Is it right that they should be on the same playing field as the professional person who left university and Steve Webb: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? did not do the type of job that my right hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) described, as Malcolm Wicks: I am pleased that the Minister wants a packer, cleaner, steelworker or miner, but who is from to intervene, but may I add another statistic? I have the professional classes, rather like many of us who are given him a lot of notice of this point, and a wonderful currently in this room? Is it right that the same state briefing paper has been presented, so I hope there might pension age should apply to both groups? I do not think be some solutions. An additional pension penalty is that that is a state pension system that is in line with, paid by the poorest groups. Whereas the great majority and goes with the grain of people’s lives. It does not survive to get the state pension, they then draw it for seem fair to many people. fewer years than people from the top social classes, I meet many people from professional classes— because of earlier mortality. Life expectancy at 65 is politicians, business people, think tankers and 18.3 years for men from social class 1, which is professionals, broadcasters—who dread retirement. They want to keep but it is only 14.1 years for those from social class 5. working. They are hale and hearty and often at the top That four-year difference is the same for women. A of their game. They want to carry on working, and that double pension whammy affects people from the poorest is a good thing. [Interruption.] My right hon. Friend social classes, and that should at least raise a question in the Member for Rotherham (Mr MacShane) gives an the Minister’s mind about whether the general policy important example. In 10 years, he will constitute another that he is pursuing—to be fair, it is the general policy important example. that my party’s Government were pursuing—is on the right track. That is right and proper, but people who have done physically demanding work are literally worn out in an Steve Webb: The right hon. Gentleman is making a old-fashioned sense. Some of the steelworkers I met characteristically fascinating contribution. He is citing when we set up the Pension Protection Fund were different social groups, but does he accept that the sizes physically worn out. They do not want to keep working of those groups are changing? His idea would have been for another couple of years. They want to retire to have brilliant in 1975, but in designing a pensions system for a well deserved rest. the 21st century and beyond, is he not trying to solve a What is the answer? I think that we should try to problem that is diminishing with every passing year? calculate the records of those who left school at 15 or 16. I know that it is a challenge for the civil service. I Malcolm Wicks: I was solving many other problems have not got the briefing paper—the Minister has it and in 1975—they were so numerous that I cannot think of I am sure that he has read it. Given national insurance an example. I believe that there are solutions to the records, employment records and perhaps income tax problems. They might be complex, but if the Minister records, should not we be able to calculate that will bear with me I will come on to them. people who have worked for 49 years can retire at the 83 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 84

[Malcolm Wicks] It is notable that no Labour Members referred to judges’ pensions. An extraordinary silence has come age of 65—for men and women in due course—rather upon my friends on the Opposition Benches. Several than assume that they can carry on working? It is a big Government Members have pointed out that having issue for social administration and it needs a bright zero contributions to the judges’ pension scheme is Minister to tackle it. The Minister should give it rather surely a massively unfair anomaly, which Work and more attention than I think he has given it so far. Pensions Ministers are quite correct to change. That should have been done years ago. 7.1 pm That brings us to the one aspect of the Bill that Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): Today’s debate causes hon. Members of all parties some concern: the takes place more than 100 years after the Old Age effect on women born between December 1953 and Pensions Act 1908 was introduced by a slightly different October 1954. I have written to the Secretary of State coalition Government, led by Lloyd George, but including and the Chancellor, inquiring whether it would be Churchill in his Liberal phase. The most important possible to introduce some flexibility to tackle the specific change since then is clearly in life expectancy. My hon. problems of women in that age group. I received a letter Friend the Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) and from the Minister of State, Department for Work and other speakers this evening have already tackled that in Pensions, the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate forensic detail. (Steve Webb), which tackles the question in some detail. I think it would be helpful if I detailed a couple of He said that salient facts as an introduction to my views about “implementation of the increase to 66 between December 2018 Second Reading. A hundred years ago, life expectancy and April 2020 is the option that best balances sustainability with was slightly less than the pension age of 65. That would fairness in the face of demographic change.” imply a pension age of about 87 today. To put it another I recognise that Ministers have a difficult task in trying way, 10 million people who are alive today will live to to balance often conflicting aspects of dealing with be 100. Clearly, something must be done, and I am pensions. I wondered—the Minister has agreed to consider afraid that it falls to this coalition Government to do it. the matter—whether the same argument could be made The Labour party had its chance. In 2002, the Labour even more convincingly for stretching the period from Green Paper fudged the issue and, two years later, the December 2018 to the autumn of 2020 so that the then Secretary of State for Work and Pensions clearly increased period of waiting for their pension for those told the TUC that raising the pension age would not women would effectively be reduced from 24 to 18 months. happen. The message today from the shadow Secretary I am confident, given everything that has been said of State and the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for today, that Ministers will consider that during the Bill’s Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), who is in her place, blithely later stages. I await what happens on Report. recommending as an alternative to some aspects of the Bill a speeded-up increase in the pension age beyond It is important that our constituents understand that 2020 can therefore be treated with a huge bucket of salt. today we are considering and debating the principles of Their paymasters, the trade unions, simply would not the Bill. The detail will be examined in Committee and let it happen. As is so often the case, it falls to the again in the Chamber. I believe that the principles for Government to tackle the difficult questions and decide tackling critical issues such as savings, auto-enrolment, how to balance the interests of future pensioners with occupational pensions, judges’ pensions and changes in those who are earning, paying taxes and paying for life expectancy should occupy our time here today. those pensions. I was genuinely disappointed by the contribution of The most critical issue of fairness that the Bill must the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill tackle is intergenerational fairness. When my right hon. (Mr Byrne), who gave a speech that contained a series Friend the Secretary of State introduced the Bill, he of stories, rumours and quotes from newspaper articles— highlighted several aspects that are worth mentioning. admirable soundbites in the absence of any policy. One He referred to life expectancy, and I hope that I have must conclude that the shadow Secretary of State has covered that point. He also mentioned fairness between no more policy on pensions than he had money left in generations, which is the basis for the main provisions the Treasury coffers a year ago. Although he said that of the measure. He talked about the importance of he was proud of Labour’s pensions record, and the savings and their not being frittered away through a right hon. Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) means-tested system. I echo that strongly. Correspondence gave one or two examples, such as the creation of the from my constituents in Gloucester constantly reflects PPF, which are to be commended, I wonder whether the unfairness between people living next door to one Labour Front Benchers’ pride extends to the 75p increase another, some on means-tested pensions and others in the state pension that was offered to my constituents not, due to their small amounts of hard-earned savings. so very recently. It is difficult to be proud of policy, but The other key aspect is auto-enrolment. I pay tribute if Government Members are to be allowed some pride, to the Labour party for the previous Government’s it is in restoring the earnings link to the basic state work on auto-enrolment, but once again this Government pension, added to the triple guarantee that ensures that will have to implement the scheme. We have examined the basic state pension will always rise by at least the details of simplifying the administrative aspects, 2.5% every year. That is a huge contrast to 75p. ensuring an opt-out, not an opt-in, getting the self- I therefore believe that the Bill has a lot in it to certification from defined contribution schemes and so commend to Members on both sides of the House. This on. I welcome those aspects of the Bill as well as the issue should be non-partisan and non-tribal. We all changes to occupational schemes, in which I should want a good, affordable, sustainable pension for our declare an interest as chairman of the all-party constituents. I shall therefore support the Bill, which will parliamentary group on occupational pensions. make a significant difference to the 7 million people of 85 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 86 both sexes who are currently under-saving, resolve the they could take on caring responsibilities within their scandal of judiciary pensions, and allow for sensible families. They simply cannot adjust their finances to reflections on aspects for women born within a particular cope with such sudden changes. year. The issue that concerns them, and indeed me, is the sense of injustice, which has left them feeling betrayed. 7.10 pm When they started work aged 15 or 16, they had an idea of what was expected of them and what they were Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab): This debate signing up to—similar, perhaps, to signing a contract of is incredibly important to Members on both sides of the employment—but that is being unjustly altered, House. Before I move on to what most concerns me retrospectively, leaving them with very little time to about the Bill, which has been raised by most hon. prepare. They thought they were contributing to one Members today, I should like to comment on some of thing, but in fact they will get another. There is the things that my right hon. Friend the Member for simply not enough time for them to plan and prepare Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) mentioned. My financially for their retirement, which causes them a constituency’s past is in heavy industry, and it still has a great deal of anxiety. Moving the goalposts at such huge element of industry. Both men and women work short notice is not the correct way to go about this. My very hard in difficult, not-wonderful conditions. Many constituents feel penalised, despite, as I said earlier, simply do not reach pensionable age. It is important to doing everything right. bear that in mind in our discussions. Nobody can argue with the statistics on the rate of increase of life expectancy, Retirement should be about choice. People should but in some areas of the country, especially in pockets be able to assess the prevailing factors and decide when within those areas, life expectancy is increasing much it is appropriate for them to retire. Some of my more slowly. That needs to be borne in mind in our constituents affected by these changes have already considerations. made the decision to retire and are living off small private pensions. The Bill effectively removes that choice. In my office, there are folders containing letters from Their carefully planned savings will not suffice for the many of my constituents who feel strongly about changes two extra years they will be forced to wait before to their state pension age. Many have felt compelled to receiving their pension. write to their MP for the first time. I want to speak on behalf of those people, who are predominantly women. I worry about the wider implications of the plans. They have told me what they think of the Government’s The Minister says that we need to encourage people to plans, and I promised that I would represent their views save for their pensions, but what message is the Government to the Government. I shall take this opportunity to sending to the young women of today? Are they saying, raise their objections on their behalf. Some have told me “You may save and you may plan, but we’ll make the extraordinary things about their lives, the jobs they changes anyway”? have done and how hard they have worked. It is my I said that I would speak on behalf of my constituents, privilege to speak on their behalf. Likewise, I was pleased and I shall now directly quote just a couple of the letters to take part in a debate on this issue in Westminster I have received in the past few weeks. One constituent Hall recently. wrote: What are my constituents so unhappy about? These “I started work aged 16 with the expectation of receiving a full women have worked hard their entire lives and done state pension at 60. 5 years was added. I am now outraged to find everything right. They have worked, saved and planned. that this government has changed it again. Having paid full Along the way, many have raised families, and many contributions I now find myself worse off compared to my now have caring responsibilities for younger and older colleagues and friends who are only a few years older”. members of their families—I could add that, in that As a result of the arbitrary way in which the Government way, they are saving the taxpayer money. They have have decided their dates, I am sure that some of that made their contribution to society. They paid their woman’s better-off colleagues and friends are only a taxes and national insurance in the hope of a happy, few months or days older than her. relaxed, financially secure and worry-free retirement, Another constituent wrote: yet the Government have moved the goalposts. My constituents feel angry and let down. Many are afraid “I am currently in full time employment and have had 2 knee and wonder how they will manage financially. Those replacements and am about to have surgery on my back. I am in who must continue to work are fearful of the long-term constant pain and find full-time work very difficult. However I was looking forward to my retirement. I had hoped not to have to implications for their health. claim for any benefits before my retirement but I can no longer see Before I go any further, I should like to make something this being possible. I feel very let down and wonder why I have clear. My constituents do not disagree that the state pushed myself to work so hard all these years”. pension age should increase. They recognise that Have the Government assessed the costs they will incur average life expectancy in this country is increasing and when people who physically cannot work extra years they recognise the dangers that come with an ageing claim benefits? Has that been taken into account? society, but the Turner commission recommended 15 years of preparation before implementation, as a swift Finally, another constituent said: alteration could cause financial hardship and unnecessary “I find that the goal posts are being moved and if these anxiety. proposals go through I shall have to work for a further 91 weeks and £9,295 will be taken from my State Pension. I have worked That is of great concern to my constituents, some of hard all my life from the age of 15 and I have also brought up a whom have already retired. Many who were seven or family. I am looking forward to my retirement as the toll of all eight years from pensionable age calculated their savings, these years of working is starting to show and feel. This Coalition pension entitlements and income and retired so that government is letting thousands of women down.” 87 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 88

Jonathan Evans: Hon. Members on both sides of the The third problem that the Bill addresses is the lack House will have received similar letters. The Labour of saving. It has been said that 7 million people are not party’s policy, as far as I understand it, is to begin the saving enough for retirement. The problem is the general process in 2020. Therefore, those people would write sentiment that things will be all right on the night—people similar letters—would they not?—if the policy adopted expect to be able to sell a property or make some money by the hon. Lady were pursued. to put in a pension pot. The Government are facing up to these tough issues, and have realised that that is not a Julie Elliott: That is absolutely right. The Labour realistic proposition. party set out a similar policy of raising the pension age, I recognise that there is a gap between the long-term but we would have done it by 2020, which would have solution and the needs of those currently near the allowed a considerable time for people to plan and to pensionable age, and many have acute concerns about take that into account. The problem with the Government’s what will happen—many Members have referred to the proposal is not raising the pensionable age, but doing so cohort of women who face a particularly tough time. in such a short period. That is radically different from All the indications are that the Government are prepared anything the Labour party proposed. to acknowledge and address those concerns, and I am The coalition agreement said that the state pension sure that my hon. Friend the pensions Minister will age would not rise sooner than 2016 for men and 2020 have an ingenious solution. However, I would like briefly for women. The Bill breaks that coalition commitment. to draw the House’s attention to a few specific issues. My constituents feel very angry and misled about that. Like many of the coalition’s ill-conceived policies, this Despite the welcome introduction of the triple lock, is too much, too fast. it is clear that pensioners feel a great sense of vulnerability. They know that they have a reasonable expectation of living many years, and are anxious that at a time of low 7.19 pm interest rates and little investment income their basic John Glen (Salisbury) (Con): I would like to open my state pension should grow. I therefore welcome the remarks by reflecting on a tale of two 64-year-olds. My Government’s proposal. I recognise that it will cost a lot great-grandfather died in Salisbury in 1944. In the of money and will take time to work out, but its general words of my grandmother, who is now 90, he was seen thrust is the right one. at the time as an old man. Next week, my father will It has to be acknowledged that we have seen massive turn 64. He will retire having done a manual job for changes as a result of the increase in life expectancy 48 years, and with the expectation of perhaps living, as over the past 50 or 60 years. Life expectancy at 65 has his father did, to 90 or 92. But we do not know, which grown upwards of 10 to 15 years over the past two goes to the heart of the problem faced by the Government: generations, and it would be helpful if the Government changing expectations of how long we will live and set out what we are aiming for. Notionally, we will have what to do about it versus the reality that decisions will parity between genders over the next 10 years, but what have to be made with finite resources. are we aiming for? Are we saying that everyone should I think that the Government have made an excellent have a right to expect a fixed number of pensionable start with this Bill, which addresses three interlocking years? Are we seeking to address the statistical evidence issues. The first is our ageing population. Only a few on demographics and regional differences, or should we weeks ago a lady came to my constituency surgery, sat recognise, building on the comments of the right hon. down in front of me and asked whether I could help her. Member for Croydon North about the level of complexity I said I would do what I could. I really thought it would and a complexity deficit, that we will not be able to be about an issue of care for herself or her aged husband, make the pensions system sufficiently complex to address but in fact she wanted to talk about her 99-year-old every one of those factors? mother. We have a ticking time bomb that, over the past We have to recognise that we need to do something, two generations, Governments of all colours and parties particularly about the 33,000 women who face this and at all times failed properly to grasp. We cannot go two-year delay, but it would help if we set out some on like that. broader principles. My generation—those under 40—will Sheila Gilmore: Will the hon. Gentleman accept that have to bear a much greater responsibility. I expect to it is a gross generalisation to say that this problem has work much longer, although I might have a different job been ignored? The Bill makes a relatively minor change from my father, who worked on the land. We need to compared with the major changes proposed in the send the message so that the next generation and those Turner report and the last Pensions Bill. It is wrong to after know to put more into their pension pots and suggest that this has not been looked at. expect to retire later. My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) has already mentioned John Glen: I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. the fact that 10 million people now living will live to I think I will address the thrust of her comments in a 100. That is beyond the realistic expectations or assessments few minutes. of most people today, but it will impose strains on The second issue is our active ageing population. public finances, health care costs and end-of-life care, Notwithstanding the remarks of the right hon. Member which are the issues that we must address. We must not for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks), who pointed out fail to consider my generation and those that come after the differences in life expectancy between regions and because they do not seem to matter today. socio-economic backgrounds, many people expect to I welcome the changes to auto-enrolment, but I ask lead an active retirement, which is why I welcome the the Government to avoid unnecessary and bureaucratic proposal to remove the default retirement age. That will changes for small business people, especially those in be important in allowing people to do more and to the tourism or retail sectors, where staff turnover is continue working if they wish. high. Too often justice is not done in the detail to the 89 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 90 headlines of Government. We need to ensure that small The Bill’s regulatory impact assessment says that the employers do not bear a disproportionate cost. proposal will save no money before 2016, by which time The free eye tests, free prescriptions, free bus passes, the Chancellor says that he will have balanced the free television licences for the over-75s and the free books. I am therefore unsure what the Secretary of winter fuel payments, along with the Government’s State means. Is this about deficit reduction, or is it commitment to solidify the £25 payment in bad weather, about fairness and equality? are welcomed by many. Certainly, they are welcomed by I would like to touch on some issues that have already the poorest members of my constituency—in Bemerton been covered and put some further questions to the Heath and the Friary, for example—who rely on the Minister. What assessment has his Department made of payments year in, year out. I hesitate to say it, however, the proposal’s effect on the number of unpaid carers but is it really fair for those earning more than, say, and child minders in the UK? The accelerated timetable £50,000 a year in retirement to have that extra money? means that many people who would have taken up There is usually a snigger, a gasp and a “Well, we don’t caring for relatives or provided child care when they really need it”. However, in the assessment of true retired, in order that the next generation could join the fairness, what value accrues to the public purse from work force, will not be able to do so because they will be expenditure on those people? at work for another two years. That will have an important I welcome the Bill, which establishes the right direction, social policy impact. What assessment has the Department but there is still work to be done in certain areas, which made of the proposal’s effect on volunteering and the I hope I have set out. No Government, past or present, Government’s agenda? People who have will get everything right. I applaud the work of my hon. retired are not inactive; they volunteer at libraries, Friend the pensions Minister and wish him well as he charity shops and lunch clubs. They also act as school unravels these complex issues and develops a pensions governors and provide much needed care in our system fit, in all respects, for the nation we live in and communities. If they are kept in the labour market for the number of years we can expect to live. longer, they will be less able to volunteer in those ways. I am also deeply concerned about unemployment 7.29 pm among the over-50s. It is not easy for the women affected by the proposal to get another job or increase Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab): Like their hours to fill the two-year gap if they find themselves many Members, I have been inundated with e-mails and out of work, especially at such short notice. I receive letters from women who will be affected by the acceleration many letters from constituents in their 50s who are in the state pension age. I declare an interest, in that I willing to take any kind of work, but who are finding it was born between 1953 and 1955, and will have to wait impossible to get a job. It is not easy for people to longer for my pension. return to the labour market once they have left. It is also Last month I held a 90-minute Westminster Hall becoming increasingly difficult to hang on to a job in debate in which I outlined my opposition to the later years. If women are expected to work longer, there Government’s plans. The arguments that I put forward needs to be work for them to do. That is particularly then still hold. The Government’s proposals are unfair, important given the current economic situation and the because they target a group of women based on when rise in unemployment. In looking for work, those women they were born and give them too little time to plan. may well be competing against their own grandchildren These are women who have done the right thing—they in the labour market. have paid their national insurance contributions and What projections and costings have the Government planned for their retirement—and they should not be made for how many women affected by the proposal penalised by a Government who are moving the goalposts will have to claim employment-related benefits? Many at the last minute. The Government are threatening to women will not have enough savings to fall back on, undermine confidence in the pensions system and some particularly those who have been employed in low-paid of the more positive proposals in the Pensions Bill, such work or who have taken time out to have children or act as auto-enrolment, that are designed to improve pension as carers. Will the Minister outline the measures that coverage. However, people may think, “If the goalposts the Government plan to introduce to help them work are moved at the last minute, why bother? We may make longer? Will he comment on how women who are not in our contributions now, but who’s to say that the money work are meant to balance their finances in the two-year will be there at the end, when we expect it?” That is the gap, given that they will be eligible for jobseeker’s opposite of the Government’s intentions for pension allowance for only six months if they have savings or reform, but it is a distinct possibility. will not be eligible at all—this is my understanding—if When I held my Adjournment debate, not a single they have a small occupational pension? Conservative MP spoke. I am encouraged that we have I was going to mention some of the class issues had such thoughtful and wide-ranging contributions affecting people’s life expectancy, but my right hon. from all parts of the House on this important issue Friend the Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks), today. I also hope that the opposition expressed in this who is no longer in his place, went into that in great debate will cause Ministers to pause and rethink their detail, and much better than I could. I would therefore plans. My early-day motion on the issue has gathered like to end by asking the Minister about auto-enrolment 177 signatures from all political parties, so there is and NEST—the national employment savings trust—which widespread support in the House for a rethink. I broadly support. The three-month waiting period will I would like to touch on the Secretary of State’s mean that 500,000 fewer people will be automatically comments in today’s media. He said that it would cost enrolled in a pension scheme. It is my understanding in the region of £10 billion to drop the accelerated that workers will be able to opt in during that three-month timetable, and that he would therefore stick to his plans. period and receive the employer contribution, but people 91 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 92

[Teresa Pearce] Bill paves the way for such timely reform. As in other policy areas, such as health, higher education and welfare, will do so only if they know that they have that right. the Government are absolutely right to tackle pensions Will the Minister assure the House that the regulations with a long-term focus on ensuring sustainability. As in will require employers to explain that to jobholders other areas of Government, the coalition cannot be from day one of their employment? accused of currying favour ahead of the next general It is disappointing that NEST will not be allowed to election. By tackling big, sensitive issues head-on, we deal with small transfers in and out, and sweep up small will restore confidence and fairness in such vital areas. pensions from casual employment. Many people are The Government are therefore right to commit to increasing employed dozens of times over their lives, many doing the state pension age in the Bill. As I have said, we are short-term jobs in, say, call centres. The reality is that experiencing significant increases in life expectancy. we have a much more transient labour market. Provisions I had hoped that that part of the Bill would be for transitions in and out of NEST should be included welcomed across the House—it was, after all, Labour in the Bill, even if they cannot be implemented immediately. which committed to increasing the state pension age in I very much look forward to the Minister’s response on the Pensions Act 2007—but, sadly, that does not appear those two issues. likely. In the light of new evidence about the rate of increasing life expectancy, I firmly believe that it is right to review the original time scales set by the previous 7.35 pm Government and to speed up the process. I admit that Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): It is a privilege to that is not an easy decision to take, but it is vital that we have the opportunity to contribute to such an important grasp the nettle on this specific aspect of the Bill. If we debate, and to follow some extremely thoughtful speeches are to pursue a policy to bring about long-term, sustainable from all parts of the House. Ensuring that Britain has a change, we should do so courageously and without fair and financially sustainable pensions system must compromise to the Bill’s main principles. rank as one of the most important priorities on the I therefore urge the Government to resist calls from coalition’s ever growing “to do” list. After all, not only some to slow down their approach to increasing the does this Bill shed light on a pensions system that is state pension age, and I am pleased that the Secretary of currently broken and unsustainable; it also touches on State outlined his commitment in that regard earlier. key issues of individual responsibility, a new savings Having said that, I acknowledge, as have many colleagues, culture and easing the administrative burdens on small that a sizeable group of individuals will now qualify for businesses. All those factors make this Bill a significant their state pension more than a year later than they piece of legislation. However, it is impossible to reflect would have qualified under the present arrangements, fairly on the initiatives in the Bill without taking note of with more than 30,000 women qualifying more than the current state of our pensions system. two years later. Obviously, those affected will feel harshly Unfortunately, Britain’s pensions system is dangerously treated, but it is encouraging to hear that the Secretary creaking, with real doubts about its financial sustainability. of State is willing to listen to the arguments put during The challenges that it faces are frankly enormous. Official the passage of the Bill. I very much welcome that; it is projections of average life expectancy were once again an important factor in the process. However, we must revised upwards in 2009, indicating that men and women remember the previous Government’s regrettable are expected to live an extra one and a half years longer mismanagement of Britain’s economy. Had we inherited than was thought at the time of the Pensions Act 2007. a slightly more stable financial state of affairs, we might Although we must welcome increasing life expectancy perhaps have been able to do more for those who now rates, their impact on our pensions system cannot be face a delay in their state pension entitlement. ignored—a point already covered by a number of Members, The second part of the Bill deals with reforms relating including my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Ben to workplace pensions. I welcome the fact that the Gummer), who did so very eloquently. The impact will Government appear to be implementing the findings of be huge. “Making automatic enrolment work”, an independent Meanwhile, it is a sad reality that too few people have review of automatic enrolment into workplace pensions. been saving enough for their retirement in recent years. Independent reviews tend to be rather more balanced Indeed, according to the Office for National Statistics, than those carried out by Whitehall Departments. I fewer than 9 million people in Britain now participate in largely support the deregulatory nature of many of the an occupational scheme, with around 7 million people workplace pension reforms. Reducing the cost of not saving enough for their retirement. Combined with bureaucracy to small and medium-sized businesses should increasing life expectancy, our poor savings culture is a always be a cause for celebration. Indeed, I am led to potent time bomb beneath the surface of our pensions believe that even the TUC supports this aspect of the system. In addition, the Pensions Commission recently Bill. Perhaps Labour Members can confirm that. Such described the UK pensions system as one of the most support is wholly justified, as these reforms will ensure complex in the world. A 2009 survey by the Department that, from 2012, millions of people will be saving for a for Work and Pensions highlighted the fact that 71% of pension for the first time. I have always believed in people did not understand the workings of modern-day encouraging a new savings culture, and auto-enrolment pensions. To my mind that is a worrying statistic. is a really positive step in the right direction. With increasing life expectancy, a poor savings culture In summary, the challenges facing our pensions system and a complicated system, our pensions systems is not can fairly be described as a ticking time bomb. The fit for the 21st century. The status quo will no longer measures in the Bill alone will not be enough to turn the suffice. We cannot pass this ticking time bomb to the tide and reform pensions as widely as is necessary. next generation. Change is absolutely necessary. This Reforms of the state pension are currently being consulted 93 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 94 on, and even at this stage I urge the Government to will see an increase of two years. Those are the points ensure a fair deal not just for future pensioners but for that constituents are contacting me about, because they are existing ones. Nevertheless, the Bill represents a good worried about the impact that the Bill will have on step forward in the attempt to tackle our out-of-date them. pensions system. The Government should again be To put this in context, a woman born in April 1953, congratulated on doing the right thing, even when it as one of my good friends in my constituency was, will might not be the easiest of their duties. Good governance be able to get her pension at the age of 62 years 11 is about taking difficult decisions in the long-term interests months. However, another friend who was born just a of the country, which is what this coalition Government year later, in April 1954, will have to wait until she is 66 are doing. The Pensions Bill lays a solid foundation for before she can draw her pension. It is completely a more sustainable and fairer pensions system, and I understandable that people feel that the measures are look forward to the Government building on it further unfair. We have heard that comment time and again this in future. afternoon. They are certainly not fair to the 1,200 women in my constituency aged around 56 and 57 who 7.44 pm are set to lose the most from these changes, and who will have very little time to prepare or to amend existing Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- plans. Many of them have worked in a series of jobs, op): I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this raised families and perhaps worked part-time over the important debate. Like many hon. Members on both years. It is difficult enough for those women on low pay sides of the House, I have been contacted by a huge to plan for their retirement without this additional number of constituents about the measures in the Bill. burden being placed on them. I think the most significant Indeed, I expect that the e-mails are continuing to flood part of the issue before us is allowing people time to in even as I speak. plan adequately for retirement. The debate today has rightly focused on women’s Age UK has highlighted a number of concerns, not pensions, but it is important that we also remember the simply about the plans, but about the fact that people wider context. The majority of people want to plan are not necessarily aware of them. It estimated that ahead for their retirement, and they are happy to make about 32% of the women it polled said that, following their contributions during their working lives in the the Government’s proposals, they did not know when knowledge that they will reap the benefit when they the state pension age would reach 65 for both women retire. I am pleased that today’s debate has not had and men. Just one in 10 correctly said 2018. Almost half more heat than light, and that we have heard thoughtful expected equalisation to happen before the planned contributions. All too often, insulting comments are date, while 9% thought it would be later than planned. made to suggest that people who have a decent pension As we can see, there is confusion. might be getting something for nothing, or getting more In the last few months, despite the public outrage and than they deserve. I am genuinely glad that we have not a campaign supported by different charities and heard any of that today. organisations, Members of all parties and affected For many working people brought up to do the right individuals, it appears that, although Ministers might thing, pensions are like deferred wages. They have carefully have begun to listen, they have certainly not come planned for their later years because they believe that it forward with any clear proposals on what they intend is right to avoid being a burden on the state or on their to do. families. Unfortunately, however, it is those thrifty, careful We all understand the simple truth that our society is planners who are being let down by this Government in ageing. The previous Labour Government recognised it the Bill. It is sad that the Government have broken their and, as we have heard, established the independent promise in the coalition agreement not to raise the Turner commission and built a consensus for change women’s state pension age to 66 before 2020. As we around a number of key areas: linking the basic state heard at the beginning of the debate, the coalition pension to earnings, raising the retirement age to 68 by agreement clearly stated that the state pension age 2046, starting the rise from 2024 and making private would rise to 66 but that this would pensions opt out instead of opt in, with employers also “not be sooner than 2016 for men and 2020 for women.” making a contribution. After trying to build that kind Ministers have performed dramatic U-turns on a whole of consensus, it is simply wrong to penalise women who range of issues, some of which have been welcome, but have worked hard for their whole lives and now have no this one is most unwelcome. The legislation will now time to plan for their retirement. accelerate the equalisation for women to 2018, and then As I have said, many women of this generation are increase men’s and women’s state pension ages to 66 by already at a disadvantage when it comes to pensions. 2020. Anyone reading the coalition agreement when it They have perhaps been denied access to private pension was published would not have expected that to happen. schemes and have had to take career breaks to bring up Some 2.6 million women will be affected by the children. Raising the state pension age for women so Government’s proposals. The state pension age for women rapidly could result in some women currently in their born between 6 December 1953 and 5 October 1954 will 50s having to work for two years more than they had increase by more than 18 months. I should say that I do previously thought. That might not seem a great deal if not have an interest to declare in that regard; the people are not at the stage of life when they are thinking increase will not affect me, but it will affect many about planning for retirement, but for people working women in my constituency. The Government’s own in an arduous job with long hours or working very early impact assessment estimates that the measure will affect in the morning, as many in the cleaning or hospitality about 330,000 women. In the most extreme cases, some sector have to do, or late at night, that means a lot. The 33,000 women born between 6 March and 5 April 1954 women affected are being made to accommodate the 95 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 96

[Cathy Jamieson] Cathy Jamieson: My hon. Friend makes exactly the point that I was about to make. There does indeed seem changes within fewer than seven years and it will not to be a mismatch. I have to say that I am not a great fan be possible for them to make up the time and earnings of the term “mini-job”. Some people are getting up at 6 that they would have wanted. They are at a significant o’clock in the morning to work a shift as a cleaner, then disadvantage. We have also heard that the median pension have to take their kids to school and subsequently do saving for a 56-year-old woman is just £9,100—almost perhaps four hours in a local retail establishment, after six times lower than that of a man, which stands at which they have to pick the kids up from school only to £52,800. have to go out to another job in the evening. There is During our debate, we have also heard about the not much that is “mini” about that when all those jobs number of people eligible to be auto-enrolled in a are put together. This is exactly the sort of issue that pension scheme. I have concerns about that. I was a bit Ministers need to address if this Bill continues through disappointed to hear some of the attacks on the shadow its parliamentary stages. Secretary of State when he raised these issues. We all I think the general public understand that as people need to hear the Minister respond to the issues raised. I live longer over the coming decades, the state pension am concerned that limiting the coverage of the scheme age will need to rise to ensure that people who have could exclude women disproportionately. It has been longer retirements do not have them on much lower estimated that 7 million people are not saving enough to incomes leading to a lower quality of life. ensure an adequate income for their retirement. We I have heard many Members express concern this have heard genuine concern about that from Members afternoon about the proposals in the Bill. We are being of all parties. That is why there was cross-party consensus asked to vote on the Bill’s principles, but I have heard to introduce auto-enrolment. many Members express real reservations about them. I Combined with a minimum employer contribution believe that if we are not happy with the principles, it is and the creation of a pension scheme that could be used our duty to represent our constituents by voting against by any employer, the principles behind the legislation the Bill. My constituents—not just those directly affected, could be expected to lead to a step change in the level of but many others who also have concerns—are asking participation in pension saving. Concerns have been me to vote against it. If the Secretary of State had given expressed today, however, that the Government are us a firm commitment today that something would proceeding with the introduction of auto-enrolment in change and problems would be addressed, my constituents a way that will limit its scope, including raising the would have understood if I went back and told them salary level at which someone is automatically enrolled about those assurances. In all honesty, I have to say that from about £5,000 to about £7,500. The Government when I heard the Secretary of State outline right at the predict that up to 600,000 fewer people will be automatically beginning of the debate that the Bill will go ahead as enrolled in a pension scheme as a result—as I have said, drafted, that was not the assurance I was seeking. That disproportionately affecting women. is not what my constituents want, so I will vote against My concerns about that could be summed up briefly. the Bill tonight. I am worried that this will rise in line with the income tax threshold, and therefore looks set to increase to 7.58 pm £10,000 over the next few years—excluding a considerable number of people who will be earning less. Compared Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con): It is a pleasure to Labour’s original plans, it will exclude in the region to follow the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun of 1.5 million to 2 million people, of whom 1 million to (Cathy Jamieson)—I hope I have pronounced that 1.5 million would be women. I hope that the Minister correctly—although I do not entirely agree with what will respond to these points later. Having a three-month she said. waiting period before auto-enrolment could mean 500,000 I want to congratulate the Secretary of State and the fewer people automatically enrolling in a pension scheme, Front-Bench team on this Bill. This is a time-bomb that which does not improve the position on encouraging has been waiting to go off for years. The Labour party people to save for the longer term. looked at it, sniffed it and walked away because it stank. As other Members have made clear, there are also It does stink. It is going to require a huge effort by this concerns about people who work in call centres, and Government, particularly from the Pensions Secretary, perhaps others in the retail and the hospitality sector, as for whose diligence I have huge admiration. they might work a relatively low number of hours at It has been long apparent that something had to give. various points in their careers. Some people might have As has been mentioned many times in this debate, our two or three different jobs to hold down, each of which longevity has increased nationally by an average of might be under the threshold, but not when they are 10 years since the 1970s. Today’s pensioner numbers viewed cumulatively. have doubled since the 1950s and the increase is accelerating. The Office for Budget Responsibility has estimated that Sheila Gilmore: Has it occurred to my hon. Friend pensions will cost a stunning £32 billion by 2015—up that there seems to be a mismatch here in respect of this by a third from today’s figures in just four years. Department’s policies? Just last week and all through The problem was not created by the coalition, and the Committee stage of the Welfare Reform Bill, we neither is it exclusively our responsibility. Having packed heard great things about the importance of mini-jobs the public sector to the gunwales, the last Government and the people who undertake them. Such people were well aware of the oncoming crunch, and had sometimes have more than one mini-job. At the same legislated to raise the state pension age to 66. The old time, however, that does not seem to have been read understanding that public sector employees could rely across into this Bill. on secure jobs with more generous final salary pensions 97 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 98 as compensation for low pay is outmoded now. The pay 1990s. Moreover, members of that age group are more gap has not only narrowed but reversed. likely to be economically inactive owing to caring Figures from for the past year show responsibilities. Perhaps an interim measure can be that the average public sector worker is now paid 35% an introduced to ensure that they are paid what they have hour more than the average private sector worker, and worked for, and that the longer gap before they reach Office for National Statistics figures tell us that in the the state pension age does not cause unnecessary hardship. year before that, the average public sector worker earned After all, those women worked through the years of £2,000 more per annum than his or her private sector genuinely lower pay in the expectation of a comfortable equivalent. Today private sector workers are worse paid, retirement, only to see it evaporate. have less security of tenure, and have more fragile What matters most in this debate is to find a way to pensions than their public sector equivalents, but under make our pensions fairer, more affordable and as generous the current arrangements they are expected to subsidise as possible, while taking into account the changes in life the more generous final salary pensions in the bloated span and the sheer numbers involved. I know that that public sector. They are understandably embittered, as, is the intention, but now, for all our sakes and those of paradoxically, are the public sector workers, many of our constituents, we must make it a reality. whose jobs were created by the last Government. They now feel threatened. 8.5 pm But deal with the pensions time bomb we must. The private sector has absorbed many shocks. So that we Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) can survive the economic downturn, pensions, along (Lab): Like other Members, I am encouraged by the with salaries and bonuses, have been hit hard. Final agreement across the Chamber, particularly on issues salary pensions are fast becoming a distant memory, related to fairness that mostly affect women. We agree, even in larger firms, and new employer rules on automatic for instance, that we are all living longer and therefore pensions enrolment which are due to come into force need to extend our working lives. Contrary to what the next year are likely to have further detrimental effects. hon. Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax) said, The public sector, however, needs a culture change. the last Labour Government took that into account in The current arrangements are simply unsustainable and the Pensions Act 2007, following the recommendations unaffordable. The bottom line is that we all need to pay of the Turner commission. more into our pensions for longer, which means that the My right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon North age at which we retire will be higher: it will be 66 by (Malcolm Wicks) made a relevant point about variations April 2020. The last Government legislated for that, but in life expectancy connected with socio-economic their legislation will be accelerated by this Bill. We will inequalities, and about the time for which people in a also need to supplement what we already pay with healthy condition can expect to live. I agree that more increased contributions. research should be done on that. We are told by Treasury Ministers that if we make these changes now, there is a chance of a decent and Harriett Baldwin: The hon. Lady mentioned the relatively generous pension for all entitled public sector steps that the last Government took to deal with increasing workers. We are also assured that 750,000 of the lowest-paid longevity. Does she agree that the figures produced by public sector workers will not be asked to pay more, and the original Turner commission suggest that things are that the extra contributions of another 500,000 will be moving much faster than was anticipated even in 2004, capped. I am relieved to hear that the pensions of those and that since then longevity has increased by at least a who risk their lives serving their country—members of year? the police, fire service and military—will be protected. Raising the state pension age to 66 and upwards will Debbie Abrahams: I think that the hon. Lady is take years to implement, even on the revised timetable, referring to the average. It is important for us to consider and I am anxious to ensure that some worthy recipients not just the average, but how the figure is spread across do not slip through the net. Like others who have different socio-economic groups. It does not explain or spoken today, I have received many letters and e-mails excuse the Government’s failure to protect the women from people who are very concerned about the proposals. who are being detrimentally affected by the acceleration Mainly they are from women. The equalisation of the of the equalisation of the pension age. pension age, causing theirs to rise from 60 to 65, and the As many people have pointed out, this is about subsequent acceleration causing it to rise to 66 by 2020, fairness. We must focus on what is right, and the Bill appear to have left some unintended victims by the fails the fairness test. Many figures have been cited in wayside. I ask the Secretary of State and the Treasury to relation to what the Bill means nationally. Half a million think again about those cases. women will have to wait more than a year longer to In particular, women in their late 50s who were told receive their state pensions, 300,000 will have to wait an to prepare for retirement at 65 have now seen the additional 18 months, and an unfortunate 33,000 will goalposts moved again. Overall, 5.5 million women have to wait a further two years. Moreover, the Government now aged between 51 and 57 are affected to a greater or will increase the state pension age for both men and lesser degree, and 330,000 of them— those given less women to 66 in 2018. than two years’ notice of the change—are particularly I asked the House of Commons Library to conduct badly affected. There will not be enough time for the an analysis of the impact in my constituency. I discovered women caught up in the scheme to save enough to that 4,300 women and 3,800 men would be affected, address their loss. Many are among the lower-paid, and that approximately 200 women would experience a 40% have private pensions, and many part-timers were notional loss of income from their state pensions of up excluded from occupational pension schemes until the to £10,700. I have been contacted by dozens of women 99 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 100

[Debbie Abrahams] enlightening, and I want to single out the speech of the right hon. Member for Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) in my constituency who have been working since the age as it was extraordinarily illuminating and provoking. I of 14 or 15, including one called Linda Murray. She hope Ministers will look at the issue he raised for the gave me permission to use her name. She was born in long term—after this Bill has been passed and changes 1954, and left school at 16 to start work. She wrote: have been made—and address the disparity between “I have never had a job that provided a pension or had the people who start work in their teens and those of us means to provide one for myself. I have worked full-time apart who are lucky enough to start work in our early to from a few years when I worked part-time while helping to look mid-20s. after my mother who needed 24-hour care. For most of my I want to focus not so much on the detail of pensions, working life I expected to receive my pension at the age of 60. However when the age started to rise I accepted this, as did but rather on the context in which the Government are everyone else. My retirement date was set at 64. I now work taking this Bill and its measures through Parliament. It 47 hours a week in a dry cleaners and it is hard manual work. Due is important to address that context because it explains to my personal circumstances, full retirement is not an option for so many of the difficult, controversial and even painful me, at least for a few years, but I was planning to greatly reduce decisions the Government are making. It also informs my hours. I know that I won’t be able to continue working as I am and defines the approach taken by Her Majesty’s now until I’m 66.” Opposition, which can be summarised by the refrain we Many Members have mentioned that that is hard to do have heard so eloquently and passionately from so because of the physical wearing out of the body. many Opposition Members’ mouths tonight: that it just Linda continues: is not fair. “But my take-home pay is £267 a week—how am I going to be Let us first consider the context from the Government’s able to save enough from this to be able to work part-time when point of view. Our strategy is simple. It is based on our I’m 64?...This proposal is ill thought-out and cruel. It’s unfair to reluctantly coming to the understanding that everyone move the goalposts for a second time. Women of my age have in this country will suffer more—will suffer most, indeed—if worked hard and honestly and don’t deserve to be discriminated the Government do not quickly deal with our unsustainable against in this way. We accept the need to equalise the retirement ages but it should be done in a fair way. I feel that this Act will public finances. I use the term “unsustainable public create an underclass of women unable to continue in their present finances” rather than “deficit” because it is important employment, unable to find another job and denied the pension to understand that this is not just about dealing with the to which they are entitled. In an interview in The Daily current deficit; it is also about putting in place a long-term Telegraph…David Cameron said that a sudden rise in women’s platform of sustainable public finances. It is not about retirement age was out of the question.” what we need to do between now and 2015; rather, it is So that is another broken promise. There are hundreds about what we need to put in place for our country for of women with similar stories, and there is considerable the next two, three and four decades. The insight that cross-party agreement that we need to do something everything must serve this overall objective of putting about this. I therefore hope that Ministers are listening. our public finances on a sustainable footing— Another fairness issue is the switch from the retail prices index to the consumer prices index. The Department (Loughborough) (Con): Will my hon. for Work and Pensions impact assessment produced Friend give way? figures that again suggest that the burden will shift from the Government and employers to the individual. Some Nick Boles: Yes, I am happy to give way to my hon. £500 million will be taken from the Pension Protection Friend—even in mid-sentence. Fund. My final point is about the increase in income thresholds Nicky Morgan: I thank my hon. Friend for giving for automatic enrolment into occupational pensions way. He might address my point later in his speech, but and the delay in that regard. The former Labour does he agree that this issue is about not just public Government introduced that measure in the Pensions sector finances but a pension system that all our constituents Act 2008, but the current Government are restricting can understand? Pensions is a very complex subject, as access to it by both increasing the threshold from £5,000 to the Secretary of State said in opening, and many people almost £7,500 and introducing a three-month waiting do not understand the current system. Constituents period. Again, women and people in low-income jobs who are in great need approach us when they finally will be particularly affected. Indeed, the impact assessment receive their pension calculations and realise they might suggests that those who will be most detrimentally not have enough for the retirement they had planned. affected will be women, people on low incomes, ethnic minority groups and people with disabilities. Nick Boles: I entirely agree. Indeed, clarity, simplicity We must not allow our pension system to be reformed and dependability are what we seek to achieve in all in a way that pushes pensioners deeper into poverty. areas of public policy, and when we do not have that we Labour did a lot to reduce inequalities—although I end up with the public finances we inherited from the would have liked us to have done a lot more—but these last Government. reforms will make them worse. We should not be shy about admitting that the state of the public finances is leading us to make a whole 8.13 pm series of decisions that unquestionably have rough edges. Nobody on the Government Benches wants to withdraw Nick Boles (Grantham and Stamford) (Con): First, I child benefit from people paying the higher rate of should tell Members that I am absolutely not a pensions income tax. Nobody on the Government Benches wants expert; I have never spoken on the subject before in my to withdraw education maintenance allowance from life. I have therefore found this debate particularly people hoping to stay on in education after the age of 101 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 102

16. Nobody on the Government Benches wants to opportunism—the total failure to grapple with any charge students of the future the full cost—up to £9,000 per difficult long-term issues, and instead doing just the annum—of studying at university. Nobody on the easy things that win votes at the next election. Government Benches wants to put up VAT, which is paid by everybody in this country regardless of their Debbie Abrahams: I refer the hon. Gentleman to the income. We do not want to do any of those things, Pensions Acts 2007 and 2008. and not a single one of those decisions has no rough edges, not a single one of those decisions has no victims Nick Boles: I thank the hon. Lady—and remind her and not a single one of those decisions treats everybody that her Government had been in power for 10 and a in the country equally. half years by the time they introduced those Acts, even though it was clear long before they took office that We have never claimed that these decisions have no such problems existed. However, I do not want to be too rough edges—that they do not have victims, and that ungracious and I do accept that some things were they treat everyone equally—but we have claimed, and done—but not enough and too late. do claim, that each of the decisions is an essential part of the overall objective of putting our public finances So why are the Opposition taking this approach of on a sustainable basis. If these decisions are not made opposing everything under the general charge that it and implemented in full, all the people affected by just is not fair? Is it really fair to tell people that a them—the very same young people who will not be budget deficit on the scale that we face can be dealt with getting EMA, the very same students who will be paying without pain; without some people being asked to tuition fees, the very same pensioners who will be sacrifice things that are important to them; and without receiving their pensions a bit later—will suffer far more. everyone in the country experiencing a real material loss? Is it fair to tell young people that, actually, there is The Opposition’s stance is very revealing. They could no reason to pull back on EMA; that there is no reason have decided to restrict their opposition over the past to restrict their income when they stay on in education; year and during the rest of this Parliament to those that there is no reason to change the basis of funding matters on which they have a profound ideological for universities? dispute with the Government. They could have decided to oppose the benefits cap, whereby in future nobody Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): You have will get more than average income from benefits and gone on a lot about ideological things, but is it ideologically which will make it clear to people that the only way to bonkers to fight for a fair deal for women who have earn more than the average is to work for a living. They made the sacrifices that you are talking about? They could have decided to oppose the universal credit, which have sacrificed for their country, for their families— demonstrates our view that we have to remove excessive means-testing from the benefits system in order to make Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. work pay. They could have decided to oppose immigration Unfortunately, I am not responsible, so it is not “you”. I controls, which illustrate our view that we need to am sure the hon. Gentleman did not mean that. restrict the entry of people into this country, so that it is British people who can go out and get the jobs that our Alex Cunningham: I beg your pardon, Mr Deputy recovery creates. Speaker. Is it “ideological” for us to stick up for women The Opposition could have decided to focus on and who have had a raw deal through life looking after their restrict their opposition to those matters, about which families and doing a low-paid job, but who now find they have genuine ideological differences of opinion out they have to work even longer for a pittance of a with us that I entirely respect. However, instead, they pension? are choosing to oppose all the measures we are Nick Boles: I thank the hon. Gentleman, but I fear he introducing—even those that are driven not by an misunderstands me: I am not accusing him and his ideological programme or by an attempt to reshape the colleagues of being ideological, and that, in a sense, is way this country operates, but by a wish to rescue this my point. Actually, the Opposition are perpetrating a country from a road to ruin. grand deceit on the British people, which is that there is anything fair about protecting all these things that we Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): May can no longer afford; that there is anything fair about I declare an interest as a trustee of the Conservative arguing to the British people that we— agents’ pension fund, and my other registered interests? Does my hon. Friend agree that Labour Members are Dr Whiteford: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? opposing this because they are deeply embarrassed that they failed to increase the retirement age when they Nick Boles: No, I will not give way for the moment; I were in government? A much preferable approach is am in the middle of replying to the previous intervention. that followed by my right hon. Friend the Member for The Opposition are perpetrating the grand deceit that Hitchin and Harpenden (Mr Lilley), who gave very there is anything fair about pretending to the British long notice of these programmes and really did fix the people that this country is not poorer than it was; that it roof when the sun was shining. is not permanently poorer than we thought we would be in each of the next 20 years. Nick Boles: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention The point about what happened in the past three and he is absolutely right: the contrast is stark and is years is that the economy suffered a permanent drop. not flattering to the Opposition. Indeed, I would go so We can grow again from that drop—we can again far as to claim that the curious thing about the Labour achieve higher living standards—but we will never have Government is that they demonstrated the quality we back the growth that we lost in the past 10 years, and it would normally associate with Oppositions: total is not fair to anyone to argue that this or any Government 103 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 104

[Nick Boles] with unpopular consequences for a defined group of constituents who would write to all of us, but we have can proceed as if no sacrifices need to be made, no heard none, although we might be about to hear from losses need to be felt and there can be an entirely the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), who victimless process of recovering from the terrible economic gesticulates at me. situation that the Government of the hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) helped to create. Rachel Reeves: I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was here for the speech of my right hon. Sheila Gilmore: Is the hon. Gentleman not perpetrating Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill the debating technique of erecting a straw man in order (Mr Byrne), in which my right hon. Friend set out to knock him down? Perhaps he would like to consider Labour’s proposals to increase the state pension age at a the terms of the Bill that we are discussing. faster rate than in the previous Parliament while still giving people 10 years’ notice. Our proposal would Nick Boles: I thank the hon. Lady, but I fear that this mean that no one would have to wait for more than a man is a lot more substantial than just straw—even if year and would not disproportionately affect women of the Leader of the Opposition sometimes appears to be 56 or 57. So although the hon. Gentleman is making a exactly the straw man she refers to. The entire membership very nice speech, it is not based on facts. of the Labour party is signed up to the deceitful argument that we can correct this budget deficit, restore sustainability Nick Boles: The hon. Lady’s intervention betrays to our public finances and rescue this country from exactly what got her Government—or the Government decline without taking painful decisions that cause people whom she supported, because she was not in Parliament loss. That very same argument has been made in every when they were in government—into such trouble. The single one of these debates—in the debates about education only nettles that Labour is willing to grasp are those maintenance allowance, about tuition fees and about all that will grow in 10 years’ time. There are no nettles now the other benefit changes. We are hearing that argument being grasped and there are no decisions that Labour, here again tonight. This is not really an argument about were they in government, might have to explain to the pensions, but one about the future of this country, and British people—there are only bills being deferred for the argument used by the Opposition is always exactly later generations. I am afraid that the hon. Lady has the same. revealed the shallowness and hollowness of Labour’s position by bringing forward one cut—one deprivation— Dr Whiteford: The hon. Gentleman has been using a that would come in only 10, 20 or 30 years’ hence, when lot of rhetorical questions in this debate. For me, the all of us will be pushing up daisies or collecting a key question, if we accept the premise of his argument, somewhat deferred pension. is: why should women born in 1953 and 1954 take a disproportionate amount of the pain and take all that Let me round up by saying that I hope that people, pressure for everyone else? including even some of the women who will be affected so directly by some of the proposals in the Bill, will have Nick Boles: The hon. Lady is eloquent, as so many respect for hon. Members on the Government Benches people have been, on behalf of a particular group, and I because when we reply to letters from constituents would accept and understand that were they not equally complaining about the unfairness of any of the eloquent on behalf of every single other group that is Government’s individual proposals we are not going to being affected by the process of getting our public take out the flannel and the soft soap—the first implements finances on to a stable footing. I would have some that Opposition Members reach for—but are going to respect if an Opposition Member said to me, “I voted explain the situation that the country faces. We are for EMA, I voted for tuition fees and I am voting for the going to explain that, as before in our history, sacrifices benefits cap, but this one I cannot bear because it is are going to have to be made and everybody is going to egregious, outrageous and singles out this group in a suffer. Everybody will suffer some loss, but in doing so way that no other group is being treated.” But we do not we will create a country and a public finance platform hear that. All we hear is the same cry—“It isn’t fair”— from which this country can grow again, from which we applied every day, every week, to a different group of can make investments again and from which we can people. Opposition Members need to understand that it help those who need our help most. It is only with that is not fair to pretend to people that we can do this honesty and that ability to admit the difficulty of our without pain or loss. It is not fair to perpetrate on the circumstances that we will earn the respect of the British British people the deceit that we can somehow grow our people. way out of this deficit without cutting off some things that everybody appreciates. 8.32 pm Mr Watts: I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): I way. No one is saying that. People are saying that the would like to say that it is a pleasure to follow the hon. reductions in public expenditure can be done slower to Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles), but cause less pain. No one denies that the deficit has to be that might be pushing it somewhat. He made a dealt with; the issue is how we go about doing that. It is characteristically rumbustious and entertaining contribution about the difference between tax increases and cuts in and I would like to respond directly to some of the public expenditure. Perhaps he will address those issues. issues he raised. He spoke about rough edges, but the view that we have heard from Opposition Members and Nick Boles: The hon. Gentleman would have more even from some Members on the Government Benches credibility if we had heard, at any point in the past is not of rough edges but of rough justice for women 13 months, a single specific proposal for a painful cut aged 56 and 57. He spoke about the road to ruin, but we 105 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 106 see other countries engaged on a different path, as winds up the debate, he can outline the legal issues. President Obama said when he spoke to us in Westminster They certainly were not outlined to the country when Hall. Those countries are engaged in growing their the coalition agreement was signed, or during the press economies more. The hon. Gentleman spoke about conference—the love-in—in the rose garden thereafter. fairness, but may I say to him that fairness and restoring The Bill also fails the test of fairness, because it trust in politics are not about making a commitment in places too great a burden for savings on one group of a coalition agreement 13 months ago and cynically the population when the Government should be looking breaking it in the way that this Bill will if it receives a elsewhere, such as at equalising state pension eligibility Second Reading tonight. at 67. As my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock Reform of the pensions system is best conducted and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) pointed out, even before with the agreement of as many shades of political and these deeply unjust proposals were announced by the other opinion as possible. It is far too important for Government, women had been disadvantaged in pension short-termism, and the principles and as much of the provision for some time. As she said, median pension detail as possible should be above partisan politics. saving of a 56-year-old woman is just £9,100, almost six That is why there are some aspects of the Bill that times lower than that of a man which, on average, is Opposition Members could support, but the glaring £52,800. Research by Prudential establishes that the unfairness at the heart of the Bill in its treatment of half average woman retiring this year can expect an annual a million women in the acceleration and equalisation of income in retirement of £12,900 per annum, compared the state pension age in 2018 means that I will be with an expected income of £19,400 for the average opposing it tonight. retiring male. Further, the same study found that 28% of Rising life expectancy and other demographic changes women planning to retire this year have no savings in mean that there is agreement across the House that the private or company pension schemes, compared with state pension age should change to reflect the longer just 10% of men. period of retirement that people in younger age groups The previous Government’s strategy of seeking to are likely to enjoy. There are currently 10.5 million link the basic state pension to earnings and making people aged 65 and over, compared with just 5.5 million private pensions opt out instead of opt in sought to in the same age group in 1951. It was the previous redress the balance and would have been implemented Government who established the Turner commission to if we were in government. More safeguards should have examine in detail on a non-partisan basis the necessary been established through the Bill, rather than entrenching changes in the state pension age in a way that was fair to inequity, as it appears to do. Following the Bill, women future taxpayers, just for people approaching retirement, affected will have less than seven years to react to the and long term in its scope, to allow people to save for changes, and may be less likely to be in a pension their retirement in the full knowledge and with sufficient scheme at all, with less disposable income to supplement notice of changes in the state pension age. savings for retirement, and with greater care responsibilities. Women are also much more likely to wind down in later The Bill, particularly in part 1, breaks those three years of employment, be that to care for elderly relatives basic principles by adjusting the settlement in a way or for young grandchildren. Furthermore, it will be that hurts 500,000 women across the country who more difficult for women to move from part-time to were born between December 1953 and October 1954, full-time work, or indeed back into employment of any including 900 in my constituency. It fails in the aim of form, given current economic conditions. The Office for delivering an improved basic state pension. It also Budget Responsibility’s projection of 310,000 public breaches the terms of the coalition agreement, which sector job losses in the coming years will disproportionately ruled out any equalisation of the state pension for impact women, who make up 65% of that work force. women before 2020. The Prime Minister said on Radio 2 today that Nicky Morgan: On that point—I speak as a former retirement should be lawyer—my understanding of the explanation given “a process rather than a cliff edge” earlier this afternoon was that there was a legal reason and that that the coalition agreement could not be fulfilled as it “many people, when they get to retirement, would like to go on was drafted. Is the hon. Gentleman honestly saying that doing some work or part-time work”. his Government would have proceeded with something The reality is that the cliff edge imposed by the Bill is an that is deemed to be illegal, however desirable? unfair burden on 56 and 57-year-old women who have done the right thing and saved for retirement but are Mr Bain: I am grateful for that intervention. The way now being grievously abandoned by the Government. to get round all the problems, legal or otherwise, is to Recent decades have seen a change in employment follow the excellent suggestion that my hon. Friend the patterns among women. The dated notion that a woman’s Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) has already role is to stay at home and look after the children has made in the debate and will restate in her winding-up been well and truly dispelled, but for women in their late speech: prevent this unfair change from going ahead 50s who are due to be affected by the proposals, such and instead look at some of the accelerations in pension changes in social attitudes may not have been reflected age that can be made, particularly in respect of people in the earlier parts of their working lives. The Government’s retiring at 66 or 67, which can also save money for the reckless haste in changing the state pension age for Exchequer. those women makes adapting to that change even more The Minister and the Secretary of State did not spell difficult. out to the House what the legal problems were. Some As Carers UK indicated last month, these changes Members have speculated that they relate to matters of will have a disproportionate impact on other social European law. I hope that when the Pensions Minister groups. About 58% of carers—3.4 million people—are 107 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 108

[Mr Bain] set 71 years ago by the Old Age and Widows’ Pensions Act 1940, so change has not exactly been rushed into. women, as are one in five carers aged between 54 and As the hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen) said 60. Of the estimated 662,000 carers who combine part-time earlier, this country’s demographics have meant that for work with caring, 89% are female. For carers, there is decades we have faced a ticking pensions time bomb, little opportunity to make contributions to a private but we have unfortunately been very slow to deal with pension plan or savings, even if they are in part-time it. We may well have started to do so in the past employment. For women who are carers, provisions in 10 years, but countries such as Sweden grasped the the Bill collude to put them at even greater disadvantage. problem 20 years ago and introduced auto-enrolment In responding to the comprehensive spending review back then. last October, Joanne Segars, chief executive of the Life expectancy is far from static, having gone up for National Association of Pension Funds, noted that any those aged 65 by five years between 1920 and 1990 and, changes must include an improved and secure basic crucially, by a further five years between 1990 and now. state pension. Savings from the Bill’s proposals on the Men can now expect to live until 77 and a half years old state pension age will not even exceed £l billion until and women for four years longer than that, but not only 2018-19, which is well outwith the range of the are we paying state pensions longer; we can expect to Government’s fiscal consolidation plan. The Bill does pay them to far more people. As the baby-boomer not spell out how they plan to increase the basic state generation of 1946-47 reaches retirement in 2012, 800,000 pension for all. Again, there is little in the way of people will celebrate their 65th birthday—150,000 more incentive and assistance for people who will now have than did so this year. It is now abundantly clear that our to work longer. As the Equality and Human Rights current state pensions system and its funding are entirely Commission notes: unsuitable and unsustainable. That is why I welcome the “Rather than focusing on increasing men’s State Pension Age general thrust of this Bill and, indeed, much of its and perpetuating the gap between men and women, Government detail, but as we go forward it is clear that we have to should focus on how to help women and men extend their sort out four elements to ensure a sustainable system. working lives, if they wish to do so, and thus reduce the disadvantage First, we must be certain of what the state will that women face in the workplace by shortened working lives.” provide. I welcome the current consultation, looking at Women will also be penalised by the design of the Bill’s the possibility of a single-tier universal pension, because, provisions on auto-enrolment in pension schemes, which although it is not in the Bill, it is clearly part of the will reduce the number of people enrolled by almost solution to the puzzle. With certainty about what they 600,000. can expect from the Government, people will be able to This is a Bill of broken promises from a deeply decide whether the basic provision on offer is sufficient, dysfunctional Government. It changes the terms of the although it is more likely to make it easier for them to social contract between women, low-paid workers and decide to top up what is on offer. the state, with insufficient notice and scant regard to the Secondly, we must establish a level of state pension effects on rising inequality. They are unjust proposals provision that is sustainable in the longer term and is that bear the imprint of the Chancellor, despite having regularly reviewed to ensure that it matches life expectancy. nothing to contribute to his deficit reduction plan during We simply cannot afford to find ourselves in this position this Parliament. They put the burden of further again, having ignored the warning signs that our state departmental savings on the shoulders of too few people, pension offering has become unaffordable. and those people have worked and saved for the pension contributions they have accrued. That is why the Bill The current acceleration timetable for the state pension deserves to be opposed in the Lobby tonight. age will unfortunately, I fear, almost certainly fail to deal with the funding gap that I have outlined, but that 8.43 pm does not mean that I support the Government’s current proposals, as it is quite clear that they will badly affect Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD): I draw the many women. It is simply wrong that those women, House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ who are fast approaching their expected retirement age, Financial Interests, which details my paid employment will now be given as little as six years’ notice in order to in the pensions industry prior to my election last year. plan how to cope with a delayed state pension. Some I must admit to being a little confused by today’s are already unemployed, caring for older relatives or debate. As a new Member, I had been under the impression working substantially reduced hours due to ill health. that Second Reading was an opportunity for debate on The proposal hits especially hard those women who the general principles of a Bill. I am also somewhat had already been told that their planned retirement confused by the Labour party’s position. On the basis would be delayed by four years. They are now being hit that some of the detail in the Bill is not yet right, it is with a second delay.It will cause many to suffer unexpected prepared to throw the entire subject out and delay the financial pressures with insufficient notice, and it seems reform that is necessary to move this country to a inequitable given the different outcomes for them and sustainable pensions system. It is worth spending some women of similar ages. An age difference of days could time looking at those general principles. result in a pension two years later. As has been noted, the present state pension age of Unlike the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun 65 for men was set by the Widows’, Orphans’ and Old (Cathy Jamieson), however, I believe that there are signs Age Contributory Pensions Act 1925, which was passed that the Government may be prepared to move on the 86 years ago. That brought the pension age down from issue, and I urge them strongly to do so. The current 70, which had been set in the excellent Old Age Pensions acceleration timetable will not deliver sufficient progress, Act 1908. At that point, barely 40% of men lived long but, as Members have already said, a fairer way might enough to claim it. The women’s pension age of 60 was be to accelerate the progression of the pension age to 109 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 110

67 and/or 68 years old and, by doing so, at least to give dozen women who were talking about things of a people 10 or more years in which to plan how they deal feminine nature. One woman looked at another and with it. That idea could find a great deal of support, said, “There’s a man here”, only to be told, “No, it’s given that Saga and Age UK have already proposed it, okay—Alex is an honorary woman.” but I suspect that my support may well ensure that I am I am very pleased that I am not a woman, because at not a member of the Public Bill Committee. my age I would be one of those losing out under the On the third part of the pensions puzzle, we must formula that the Government have put together. Only make it as simple as possible for people to contribute to this afternoon, I received a phone call from one of my their own pensions provision and to take ownership of constituents, Fiona, who is a 56-year-old nurse. I wish funding their own retirement. As we have heard, 7 million that the Minister could have heard her voice and learned of us are not saving enough for our own retirement and a little about the anguish and despair that was in it. She 44% of working-age employees are not contributing at told me that she started work at the age of 17 and has all towards a private pension. worked in the health service for several decades, and That brings me to the fourth element of the solution— that she now feels that the Government are slapping her employers’ contributions. It is clear that to fill a funding in the face. She said that she had been aware for some gap of the size we are facing, we must strike a balance of time that her pension age would be going up from 60 to responsibility between the state, the individual and 65, and that she understood that and did not mind—she employers. Mandatory auto-enrolment, as confirmed in even thought it was fair—but that raising the age even the Bill, exemplifies that balance. The changes in the further to 66 was going too far, too fast, and with very Bill will, I hope, do exactly what they aim to do in limited warning. In her own words—we have heard this making automatic enrolment work, in the words of the cliché all day—“They keep moving the goalposts.” title of the independent review. I hope that the provisions Fiona pointed out that older nurses and other health to raise the earnings threshold for auto-enrolment, to professionals, particularly those in their sixties, would introduce the optional waiting period and to simplify struggle to lift and assist the most frail and elderly the system of self-certification will increase employee patients. Similar issues exist for manual workers, many and employer buy-in of the system. of them women, who simply cannot do the job that they Although raising the earnings threshold would certainly were originally employed to do. Surely we should value ease the financial difficulties of the lowest paid, it people such as Fiona, not force them to replan their would effectively lock out of auto-enrolment those most future with such limited notice. It was on behalf of in need of extra pension provision. Will the Minister Fiona and many other women in my constituency that I reconsider that to see whether auto-enrolment could wanted to speak. continue, merely delaying employment contributions It is great that most people are living longer—of until an earnings threshold is reached? Many examples course, many others are not—but it brings challenges. It of such graduated schemes already exist in the private is important that as politicians we confront the difficult sector. It is well known that even £1 invested earlier on issues raised by the ageing population, not just for for 40 years is likely to yield far greater returns than any pensions, but in health care, the quality of life we amount invested 10 years later, once income has risen provide for older people and how society treats the sufficiently to cross that threshold. retired population. Those are all important issues. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich My hon. Friend the Member for Sunderland Central (Ben Gummer) that the proposals in the Bill are insufficient (Julie Elliott) and my right hon. Friend the Member for to deal with this immense problem. The auto-enrolment Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) outlined inequality in contribution level of 8% that is floated in the Bill is a a different way today, with regard to manual workers start, especially from the low—indeed, at times non- who will be lucky to reach retirement age and even existent—base that we have at present, but in many luckier if they get to 70, let alone the grand old age of other countries the level is double that; in Sweden, for 100 that some Government Members think they and example, it stands at 18.5%. The proposed level is a their relatives will reach. Those manual workers are the good start, but only that. people who have created wealth in our country, and yet they have never had the advantages of that wealth and More than five years ago, the Pensions Commission they get very limited benefit from their pensions. stated that “there is…general acceptance that future policy needs to be based Mr Watts: Does my hon. Friend agree that it is also both on significant reforms to the state system and on a new unfair that many of the women we are talking about approach to private pension saving which goes beyond a wholly started work at the age of 15 and so will have worked voluntary approach.” for 10 years longer than many other people by the time Having expressed my one concern about the Bill, I they retire? believe that it finally makes radical steps towards advancing that consensus, and I hope that the whole House will Alex Cunningham: Indeed, that is the case. Some of unite in supporting it. the women in these difficult jobs may not have their health in later years, so they will lose in all ways. 8.52 pm All too often, the elderly are ignored and not treated with the respect that they deserve. The Government Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): I am very should play a big role in ensuring that society takes care keen to speak about this issue because it has resulted in of people when they have retired and are not as independent my heaviest postbag for some time, with most of the as they once were. Family, friends and community all correspondence coming from women. Some time ago, I play a big role, but the Government can and should lead was declared an honorary woman, which I took as a by example. Pensions, among other things, are a big great compliment. I was in a discussion with half a part of that. 111 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 112

[Alex Cunningham] I suppose I should declare an interest, because just as I would be caught out if I were a woman, my wife I am proud of Labour’s record in this field. We lifted Evaline is one of the women affected. Like others, she a million pensioners out of poverty, and free bus passes, has fewer than seven years to plan for the changes. free TV licences and the winter fuel allowance all play People need sufficient time to plan for the increase in their part in helping pensioners. In common with other the state pension age, and the changes are happening hon. Members, I want to home in on two things. too fast and causing a lot of worry and anger. It will be the poorest women who suffer the most as a result, Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): I apologise for those who do not have savings to fall back on and are in interrupting my hon. Friend’s fluent and fluid flow. low-paid jobs. Does he agree that it is insane, barking and bonkers to Raising the state pension age is necessary, however, to the ultimate degree to expect someone who has worked reflect the fact that some people are living longer. We all in a hard, physical job for most of their life to have the recognise that, and we need cross-party consensus on it, same longevity as someone who has luxuriated in the but we simply cannot afford this unfair treatment of soporific circumstances of a stockbrokers’ office? What women. It is always worth repeating that the coalition will happen is that people will be signed off sick. It will agreement promised that the women’s state pension age cost the Government more money and treat women would not be raised to 66 before 2020. I do not care appallingly in the process. Does he agree? about the legal arguments and so on—if the Government are going to do that, they need to explain why. The Bill Alex Cunningham: Could I disagree? I most certainly proposes equalisation of the age by 2018, and then could not. People in my constituency used to build increases to 66 for both men and women by 2020. ships and it has one of the biggest chemical industries in Moving the goalposts—that cliché again—so late in the the country. It has people who have worked in difficult day has implications for public trust in the pensions circumstances in hard jobs. My hon. Friend is correct system at a time when it is vital that we encourage more that such people cannot expect a longer life, so I think people to save for their retirement. we should make it a little easier for them. It is estimated that 7 million people are not saving enough for their retirement, but the Bill would raise the Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op): salary level at which someone is automatically enrolled My hon. Friend is making a fantastic speech and it is in a pension scheme from about £5,000 to £7,500. That great to listen to him. Does he agree that the issue is not means that 600,000 fewer people will be automatically just health and longevity, but that even people who are enrolled in a pension scheme, and again, women will be in very good health and will live longer simply cannot disproportionately affected. What long-term provision rearrange their economic affairs in the time that they is there in the Bill for that group? have—six years’ notice of two additional years in the As I said at the start of my speech, I am glad that we case of some of our constituents—to cover the loss of are debating these issues today, but I believe that the pensionable income that they will sustain when this Bill Government have got the key elements of the Bill goes through? wrong. I cannot endorse the way in which a small but significant group of women, including my wife, are Alex Cunningham: That is very much the case. I being hit by the accelerated pension age rise, nor can I suppose that there will be an additional few years of support the changes to auto-enrolment given the problems misery for some people because they will not have the that I have described. That is why I, too, will vote income to enjoy the things that they see other people against the Bill today. enjoying. It is therefore even more important that we raise these issues today. 9.2 pm It is the significant effect on women that worries me. The Bill makes it more likely that those on low Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): We often incomes will not pay into a pension. Many women hear in pensions debates about the UK having very have contacted me, incensed that they are losing out poor pension provision, but I suggest that one reason thanks to the Government’s changes. It is completely for that is that there has been a lack of consensus and unfair. The Government Members who have talked consistency over the years. We have heard a great deal about fairness need to think about women a little more. about the failure to tackle problems, but I would like to A total of 177 MPs signed early-day motion 1402 on take Members back to the state earnings-related pension the state pension age for women. It is time that the scheme, introduced by Barbara Castle in 1978. It meant Government backed down on this issue. All afternoon that everyone who was paying national insurance and evening, Government Members have teased us by contributions and was not already in an occupational saying that the Government will change their mind. pension scheme would be in a compulsory earnings-related When the Secretary of State was here, he was shaking scheme. The pension reached maturity in 20 years, so it his head, but I have seen no such indication from the was particularly attractive to women and to anyone Minister as the teasing has continued. with an interrupted career pattern. The problem was Age UK’s report “Not Enough Time” makes it clear known about as long ago as then, so people who think that women are unhappy with the plans, and it is worth that they have discovered it recently are wrong. repeating some of the statistics that it gives. The 330,000 By the late 1990s there should have been many more women born in Britain between December 1953 and people benefiting from that pension provision. To my October 1954 will have to wait 18 months or two years mind it was one of the best things done by the Callaghan for their state pension, and 33,000 will see their state Government. They have been much maligned, but not pension age increase by two years at a loss of £10,000. only did they introduce that pension provision, but 113 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 114 income inequality was at its lowest in the whole post-war contentious provision, which did not need to be in the period during their years. Government Members who measure were it not for a desire to make savings as part say that they are keen to reduce income inequalities of the comprehensive spending review. Government might do well to take a history lesson from that Members have asked us not to oppose Second Reading Government. because we are dealing with generalities. If the provision What happened to SERPS? It was torn up by the on women’s pension age had not been in the Bill, we Thatcher Government in the name of giving people would not have debated the measure for so long. choice. I appreciate that it is argued that SERPS would Despite what some Members have suggested, the Bill have proved increasingly expensive and that we would does not completely recast the pension system and have had to amend it, but how much better to be in a provide for a solid and sustainable future. In many position to amend something than to have to start again ways, it is a relatively minor amending measure, which from scratch. That is what happened at the end of the alters some provisions from previous pensions legislation. previous Conservative Government’s time in office. Without the specific provision about women, we would When the Thatcher Government decided to tear up largely be in agreement. I have already said why I am SERPS, the possibility of its proving too expensive was not entirely happy about the provisions on auto-enrolment, not given as a reason. They advanced the ideological which change previous legislation, but nevertheless the reason of giving people the choice to opt out of state particular provision on women’s pension age has caused provision and take up some form of personal pension. the difficulties about which we have heard. The Bill is Anyone who took up one of those personal pensions objectionable not just because the pension age is increasing, knows that the level of provision was extremely poor. but because a double change over a short period affects We have heard a great deal about the mis-selling of the same cohort of women. pensions, but even if they were not mis-sold, the quality The proposals have been under discussion and the of those personal pensions was not good. I speak as subject of campaigning over at least the past six someone who knows, not because I chose to opt out but months—we are not debating recent proposals. Ministers because, as a partner in a legal firm, I was treated as have hinted today that they might be prepared to make self-employed and therefore could no longer be part of changes in due course to take account of people’s SERPS—I wish I could have been. Consequently, I concerns, but those concerns have been raised ever since took out a couple of personal pensions, and I can tell the proposals were made. The Bill has been through the hon. Members that the provision is poor—almost to the House of Lords, when there was an opportunity to point where I might as well have put the money under make the adjustments that Ministers have appeared to the bed. Certainly, I might as well have put it into a suggest today. Did that happen? No, it did not. There savings account. was no suggestion at that stage that the Government Giving people that freedom of choice had other were willing to make any such changes. disadvantages. I well remember that my secretary at the We could have held today’s debate knowing what time the change was made was of an age when she could changes the Government are considering. Perhaps in opt out, and she did. I know that she did not opt into a his closing speech the Minister will say what changes he personal pension scheme. Her rationale was, “I don’t is prepared to make to the part of the Bill dealing with have a very high income. I’ve got two children in the pension age. He should show not just that the Government early teenage years, who are becoming increasingly are making another attempt to ensure that the coalition expensive. Extra money in my pocket now is valuable to partners go through the Division Lobby together, but me.” I can understand her making that choice, but I am that he has been listening, not only to his coalition sure that, 20 years on, she now regrets it. I am therefore partners and the Opposition, but more importantly to extremely supportive of enabling people to be included the many women who have campaigned and given clear in pension schemes. It may be directive, bossy and even reasons why they want the Government to change their what the previous Conservative Government called the mind. If the Minister is thinking of changing the proposals, nanny state, but it ensures that people make provision he owes it to those women to tell them how. He has the for their retirement. opportunity to do so in his closing speech. I am particularly disappointed that the Government have decided to change the income level at which auto- 9.12 pm enrolment comes into force. They have increased it from the amount that was agreed through consensus to the (Witham) (Con): I am intrigued by the level at which people begin to pay income tax. Ministers debate thus far. A range of hon. Members have followed seemed to say during the debate that it is not inevitable a number of themes. The hon. Member for Edinburgh that the level will continue to rise in line with whatever East (Sheila Gilmore) and others argued that the poorest happens to income tax and income tax allowances. will be affected by the changes that the Government are However, if that is the case, why tie it to income tax in making, but they are already affected by the lack of the first place? It creates a suspicion that that will good, sustainable state pension provision, which is one continue to happen. If that is not the case, we need to be of the major issues that the Bill addresses. clear about it. I welcome the Bill and congratulate the Government We have heard a great deal in the debate about the on it. In my view, it will transform the pensions landscape. long term. I started by talking about consensus and As we have heard, in recent years, there have been what went wrong when it was previously torn up. It is significant increases in longevity and changes in how we regrettable that the Bill risks tearing up another lead our lives. Things are changing at a dramatic pace. consensus—on the previous Government’s work on the That will not stop, and nor should it; frankly, we should back of the Turner report and the pensions legislation celebrate it. Not only are we living longer, but our that was then introduced—by including an extremely expectations of quality of life in retirement are changing 115 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 116

[Priti Patel] Government, it is a good thing, and we really have to get on with it. This is about a culture change to people’s beyond all recognition compared with those of previous understanding of the need to save, and of how much generations, as is how people spend their retirement. they need to save, for their retirement. It is not about With increasing life expectancy, it is vital that our state one lump sum. It is about what they expect to get out of pension age increases. retirement and their potential quality of life. To conclude, I think that these reforms are welcome Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab): The hon. and long overdue. The changes to the state pension Lady rightly makes the point that we are living longer, age and auto-enrolment will lead almost to a cultural which is of course something to celebrate. However, we revolution and a transformation of the pensions and are not living that much longer than we were when the savings culture in our society. That is a welcome step coalition agreement was formed. forward. Priti Patel: I thank the hon. Lady for her remark. It is a fact of life that we are living longer. At the end of the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I remind the day, there are serious pressures on public finances and next speaker that she must finish by 9.30 pm. on funding for our state pensions. The Government are seeking to address that serious issue. Ultimately, this is 9.18 pm about the future of a sustainable state pension. The Bill is not about today or tomorrow, but about future Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): I have generations. It is right that the Government tackle this been a little bemused by suggestions from Government fundamental, serious issue in the way that they are. Members that the previous Labour Government did Furthermore, we have all seen from Department for nothing on pensions. When Labour came to power in Work and Pensions figures that more than 10 million 1997, one of the biggest challenges it faced was tackling people in the UK can expect to live to see their pensioner poverty and improving the quality of life for 100th birthday. This reform is therefore clearly long older people. We must bear it in mind that the Tories overdue. had been in power for 18 years. Between 1979 and 1997, People are living longer and healthier lives, but we 29% of pensioners were living in poverty. Between 1997 simply cannot ignore the pressure that this puts on the and 2010, Labour made huge achievements, as a result state pension system. In my view, increasing the state of which average gross pensioner incomes increased by pension age is the only fair and sustainable option. We more than 40% in real terms, and more than 1 million have heard a range of quotes in the Chamber today pensioners were lifted out of poverty. No pensioner from various organisations. There are experts in our need now live on less than £130 per week, compared society who understand how our pensions are funded, with £69 per week in 1997. The winter fuel allowance, and it is worth noting that the chief executive of the free off-peak travel on local buses, free television licences National Association of Pension Funds said: and other benefits have helped to take 1 million pensioners out of poverty. “Our ageing population means increases in the State Pension Age are unavoidable. This rise in the State Pension Age to 66 from Government Members seem to suffer from collective 2018 to 2020, as implemented in the…Bill, is a sensible move.” amnesia. The previous Labour Government established the independent Turner commission because they Mr Watts: We keep hearing the same arguments, as recognised, as we all now do, that there was an ageing though Opposition Members have not taken on board population and that the retirement age had to be changed. the need for changes. Our issue is with the speed, and However, a consensus was built as a result of the Turner with the unfairness to a specific group. If the Government commission on three things: linking the basic state address this issue, we can have consensus, which surely pension to earnings; raising the retirement age to 68 by is what we all want. 2046, starting in 2024; and making private pensions opt-out instead of opt-in pensions, with employers also Priti Patel: The previous Labour Government had making a contribution. However, the Government’s the perfect opportunity to address this issue. Opposition proposal goes back on that consensus, raising the state Members say that their issue is with the speed, but this pension age for women so rapidly that some women in is now about having a sustainable pensions system, as their 50s will have to work an extra two years that they we simply cannot carry on as we are, so I do not think have not planned for, and raising the pension credit age that the hon. Gentleman’s remarks are plausible. The so rapidly that the poorest pensioners would lose around status quo is not an option. 10% of their lifetime retirement income. Reducing the number of people eligible for automatic enrolment in a Sheila Gilmore: Will the hon. Lady give way? pension scheme has also had an effect. Let me deal with each of those separately. Priti Patel: I am going to close my remarks shortly, so Labour’s Pensions Act 2007, in which we accepted I hope that the hon. Lady will forgive me if I do not take some of the things carried out by the Conservative her intervention. Government in 1995, set out the timetable for equalising I want to touch briefly on auto-enrolment. We know the state pension age for men and women, legislating to that millions of people are not putting aside anywhere increase it to 65 for men by 2020, and then to 66 by near enough money for their retirement. I was previously 2027, 67 by 2036 and 68 by 2046. The coalition agreement an employer, including of young graduates. On starting stated that the parties had agreed to their working lives, they do not think about retirement, “hold a review to set the date at which the state pension age starts saving for their pensions or anything of that nature. to rise to 66, although it will not be sooner than 2016 for men and Although auto-enrolment was started by the previous 2020 for women.” 117 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 118

However, the Bill proposes to accelerate equalisation which someone will automatically be enrolled from for women by 2018, and then to increase the state £5,000 to £7,475, which will result in 600,000 fewer pension age for both men and women to 66 by 2020. As people being auto-enrolled in a pension scheme, a so many Members have mentioned today, this is a disproportionate number of whom will be women. The U-turn that hits women aged around 56 to 57 particularly Government are also introducing a three-month waiting hard. It means that 4.9 million people are affected, period before auto-enrolment, which they predict will 2.6 million being women and 2.3 million men. Some mean that 500,000 fewer people will be automatically 500,000 women born between 6 October 1953 and enrolled. Most people have an average of 11 different 5 March 1955 will have their state pension delayed by employers over their working lives, so this provision more than a year, with the 300,000 born between could lead to a loss of almost three years’ pension for 6 December 1953 and 5 October 1954 waiting an extra many people. I know that the Secretary of State has 18 months or more. The 33,000 women facing a two-year said that he will listen, and I ask the Government to delay will suffer a loss in income of £10,000, while for reconsider these issues, which have been raised by Member those in receipt of pension credit, the figure is closer to after Member, certainly on this side of the House, £15,000. Those women are being made to accommodate today. the changes within less than seven years. Women are already at a significant disadvantage in 9.26 pm pension provision. The median pension savings of a Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): Today’s debate has 56-year-old woman amount to just £9,100, which is shown the concern and anger that exists at the rapid rise almost a sixth of the same figure for a man, which in the state pension age. Members on both sides of the stands at £52,800. That is why this is such an important House have had the chance to show that they are issue and why so many Members have concentrated on listening to their constituents, and they now have the it. It is not fair to speed up the equalisation timetable. chance to assure the women who will be affected that We oppose any change before 2020. The Government they understand their plight and are willing to vote must stick to their coalition agreement promise. However, down these changes. we support an acceleration of the timetable for both We have heard from 20 Back Benchers today, but men and women from 65 to 66 between 2020 and 2022. only two—the hon. Members for Grantham and Stamford That would achieve the aim of reaching a state pension (Nick Boles) and for Witham (Priti Patel)—have spoken age of 66 more quickly, but would affect 1.2 million in defence of the policies as they stand. That was a fewer people than under the current plans, and affect an brave decision to take, but I believe that it was ultimately equal number of men and women. the wrong one. The reasons for the concerns being The reason given for the changes is that we cannot expressed across the House are clear. As many hon. afford not to make them because of the budget deficit. Members have said, under the proposals, 500,000 women With respect, that is just incorrect. When the coalition will have to wait more than a year longer for their state Government made their promise, they knew what the pension, with 33,000 having to wait two years longer. deficit was. This is another example of the coalition We all know that life expectancy is increasing, so the saying one thing to get into power and another thing in state pension age needs to rise. My hon. Friend the power. For example, during the election the Tories said Member for Sunderland Central (Julie Elliott) pointed that there would be no VAT rise. They knew the deficit out that the women writing to her understand that, too. then, so why did they promise no VAT rise? They also However, it cannot be right for a particular group of said that there would be no top-to-bottom review of the women to have their state pension age increased at a health service, which would cost £3 billion. The Lib faster rate than anyone else’s with such little notice. All Dems knew about the deficit, yet they still said that hon. Members have emphasised that point today. My there would be no rise in tuition fees. The Tories said hon. Friend the Member for Erith and Thamesmead that Equitable Life people would get a fair share of (Teresa Pearce) said that there was no evidence that life remuneration, yet they have backtracked on that, too, expectancy was increasing for 57-year-old women at a even though, as some of us have suggested, if the deficit faster rate than for anyone else, so why are those women is the issue, those people can receive some payments being asked to shoulder so much of the burden? My now and some later—that is, after 2015. Further, we are hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen South (Dame told that the Government’s measures will cut the deficit Anne Begg) and my right hon. Friend the Member for by 2015, yet the provisions in the Bill will come into Croydon North (Malcolm Wicks) said that the changes play after 2015. will start to kick in just five years from now, in 2016, The Bill also deals with automatic enrolment. The giving much less notice than the 10 years that Age UK, Labour Government were legislating to introduce auto- the Turner report and the Pensions Policy Institute enrolment into workplace pensions, which is a good recommend. thing because we estimated that 7 million people were Let us think about the women who will be affected, as not saving enough for their retirement. To ensure an my hon. Friends the Members for Erith and Thamesmead, adequate retirement income, we built cross-party consensus for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) to introduce auto-enrolment. That meant that people and for Sunderland Central did in their eloquent speeches. would opt out of pension savings, rather than opting in. The women hit by these changes are the backbone of Combining a minimum employer contribution and the our families. They are the mums who took time off creation of a pension scheme that could be used by any work to bring up their children, the daughters who are employer, the measure was expected to lead to a change helping their parents as they get older, and the grans in the level of participation in pension savings. who are providing child care for their children’s children, The Government are proceeding with the introduction to help their children to balance work and family life. of auto-enrolment, which we welcome, but they are They are the women who have done the right thing. limiting its scope. They are raising the salary level at They have looked after their families, they have worked 119 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 120

[Rachel Reeves] and Stamford called these women “rough edges”; I call them 500,000 women and their families who have had hard and they have played by the rules. They want to their plans thrown out of the water so close to their look forward to their retirement, not worry about how retirement date. to make ends meet as they see the pension age being changed again. Moving the goalposts so near to retirement Nick Boles: Will the hon. Lady give way? This is is unfair and unjust. A year ago, the Government outrageous— seemed to get it. The coalition agreement said that women’s state pension age would not start to rise to Rachel Reeves: Yes, I look forward to hearing whether 66 before 2020. However, that promise has been breached, the hon. Gentleman really believes that 500,000 women and women are being hit hard. are rough edges. The last few weeks have been filled with speculation Nick Boles: I apologise, Mr Speaker, that in the heat that the Government were about to perform a U-turn. of the moment I did not wait for the hon. Lady to give We have heard rumours of numerous proposals and way. I thank her for that at least, but she has made the options. However, the Secretary of State told us this outrageous assertion that I referred to the women as afternoon that he was going to stand by the proposed “rough edges” when I was saying that the policies had timetable, although only this morning the Financial some rough edges. I think she should withdraw that Times reported him saying: outrageous implication. “I understand there are issues and problems and I’ll constantly look at ways to see whether there’s a way of doing” Rachel Reeves: I am sure the hon. Gentleman’s something about that. What is the truth? Hon. Members constituents in Grantham and Stamford will feel very who spoke today seemed to think that concessions will reassured that he does not regard them as rough edges, be forthcoming for the women most affected by the Bill, but speaks of the rough edges that have resulted from but what assurances can the pensions Minister give to this Government’s policies. that effect, as we are none the wiser after today’s debate? These changes mean a loss of income of up to Given the double-speak, it is no wonder that utter £10,000 for these women. For those in receipt of pension confusion reigns. The women affected and everyone else credit, the loss is closer to £15,000. There is something planning for retirement need time and they deserve particularly perverse about targeting this specific group certainty. Even the hon. Members for Grantham and of women. As my hon. Friends the Member for Kilmarnock Stamford and for Loughborough (Nicky Morgan) say and Loudoun and for Glasgow East (Margaret Curran) they want certainty in policy, but these proposals are have said, the average 57-year-old woman has just £9,100- inducing the exact opposite—huge uncertainty. What worth of pension savings compared to £52,800 for a the Government are offering is utter chaos. It is another man of the same age—a sixfold difference. About 40% of example of the shambles at the heart of this Government 57-year-old women have no private savings to fall back and symptomatic of what is fundamentally wrong with on, so how can these changes be fair? their approach. Ministers should listen, consult, assess As my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, the impact and only then make policy. At the moment, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne), my hon. Friends the Members things are happening the wrong way round. That is why for Aberdeen South, for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) the Government are in this mess. and for Kilmarnock and Loudoun have said, all this goes against the coalition agreement that stated that the Hon. Members have picked up on many clauses this changes would not start to kick in before 2020. The afternoon—including my hon. Friend the Member for Secretary of State says that the breach reflects legal Aberdeen South and the hon. Member for Edinburgh advice, but when I asked him to place it in the Library, West (Mike Crockart), who spoke thoughtfully about he did not guarantee to do so. I do not think there is the benefits of automatic enrolment of workers into anything illegal about sticking to a commitment and I occupational pensions. Automatic enrolment was introduced urge Ministers to publish that legal advice and explain by the last Labour Government and is set to mean an the breach. No one in the country voted for these extra 7 million people saving towards their retirement. policies. It is not what coalition MPs signed up to, and As my hon. Friends the Members for Kilmarnock and there is absolutely no obligation on Government Members Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) and for Edinburgh East to support the breach when we vote this evening. (Sheila Gilmore) have said, we regret the watering down of auto-enrolment, as well as the waiting period and the During this afternoon’s debate, we have heard very increased threshold before people become enrolled few attempts to defend the proposals that we are now automatically. being asked to vote on—and I am not surprised. Time after time, Government Members have called for a Of course, the issue we have heard most about today, rethink. Having heard the depth of anger up and down on which I shall focus the rest of my comments, are the the country, the Government’s excuse that women are changes to the state pension age. I will build on the living longer simply does not hold water. The hon. thoughtful speeches made by so many Members of all Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) raised the issue of parties, including my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen increasing longevity, but he still concedes that these South and my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon changes are unfair. After all, he will have to explain the North, but also the hon. Members for Arfon (Hywel 1,000 women aged 56 and 57 in Ipswich why they will Williams) and for Cardiff Central (Jenny Willott). have to bear the brunt of increasing life expectancy for The plans we have debated today simply do not meet everybody. The same is true of the hon. Member for the test of fairness. These changes mean that half a Cardiff North (Jonathan Evans), who pointed to increasing million people will have to wait more than a year longer longevity but ultimately concluded that the Government’s for their state pension. The hon. Member for Grantham proposed changes are unfair on the 1,000 women aged 121 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 122

56 and 57 in his constituency. This applies to the hon. having to save £1,200 just to be able to work part-time Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), who has from the age of 64. She is extremely worried about her 1,100 such women in his constituency to answer to. future. That is just one story from one woman, but each The hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen) referred and every one of us in the Chamber will have heard to the Government’s introduction of a triple lock guarantee, countless more from women in our constituencies who but he too has serious problems with the Government’s are approaching retirement with fear and trepidation. plans. After all, he will need to explain himself to the At the heart of the issue is fairness. It is not about 1,200 women aged 56 and 57 in his constituency. The increasing longevity: we know that people are living hon. Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax) referred longer, and that is a good thing. It is not about the to unintended victims of the proposals. There are 1,300 restoration of the earnings link. That is something for unintended victims in his constituency. The hon. Member which we legislated, and it is a good thing that people for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) defended the broad will be better off. [Interruption.] We legislated for it, direction of Government policy, but referred to the and we welcome it. It is not about the flat-rate pension unfair treatment of the 1,200 women aged 56 and 57 in that is at some point down the track, and may or may his constituency. The hon. Member for Cardiff Central not benefit the women about whom we are talking spoke in support of pension reform, but was nevertheless today. No; today’s debate is about half a million women vocal in her opposition to these particular proposals. who are being treated without fairness or justice by a Given that her constituency contains 700 women aged Government who act first and think later. 56 and 57, no wonder she wrote on her website this We celebrate increasing longevity, we support the morning that the Government needed to earnings link, and we welcome simplification of the “think again about these plans and find a way to make them pension system. We would work with the Government fairer”. on all those things, but any changes in the state pension The hon. Member for Edinburgh West, whose age must meet two tests. First, people must be given constituency contains 1,100 women aged 56 and 57, adequate notice and, secondly, there must not be a thinks that the changes are too severe. The hon. Member disproportionate impact on one group. We have set out for Grantham and Stamford talked of the 1,300 women an alternative that would equalise men’s and women’s aged 56 and 57 in his constituency. I wonder what he state pension ages by 2020 and increase the state pension will say in reply to the letters from his constituents that I age for men and women to 66 by 2022. am sure are building up in his office. Will he say that the We would work with the Government on proposals proposals are just the side effects of the rough edges of of their own as long as they met the two tests that we this policy? The hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel) have set out. I think that that is what many Government talked of people living longer, but expressed no Members seek from the Government. In that way we understanding of the 1,000 women aged 56 and 57 in could save money, make pensions sustainable, show her constituency. I hope that they were listening to her fairness, and treat people with dignity and respect. remarks. Right now, the policy is in a state of chaos. Ministers Nick Boles: Will the hon. Lady give way? need to get a grip. We have heard many pleas for concessions, but none has been forthcoming. The mood Rachel Reeves: I have already given way to the hon. in the House today has made it clear to the Minister Gentleman once, and I will not do so again. that he must think again. I urge him, and his Government, to do so, and I urge hon. Members to vote down the Bill All the Members who have spoken today—indeed, all this evening. Government Members—should think carefully about how they can consistently defend those women and vote 9.40 pm for the Bill. In the absence of any concessions from the Minister, I urge Members who think that the changes The Minister of State, Department for Work and are unfair and disproportionate to send a message to Pensions (Steve Webb): We have spent a worthwhile six the Government and vote them down. hours, and I enjoy nothing more than debating pension I have talked about the way in which the Bill will reform. There were 24 contributions, and I want to affect a great number of women and what that entails respond to as many of the points raised as possible in for them, but what we are really talking about are real the time available to me. Not all Members will have lives. We have heard some powerful and moving stories been present at the start of the debate, so it might be in the Chamber today, particularly from my hon. Friends worth reminding them that this Bill is about more than the Members for Houghton and Sunderland South clause 1, although clause 1 does two important things: (Bridget Phillipson) and for Stockton North (Alex it treats men and women equally sooner, and it responds Cunningham). However, I want to touch on the story to rising longevity by 2020. that was shared with us by my hon. Friend the Member The Bill contains two further major measures, however, for Oldham East and Saddleworth, the story of her which Opposition Members who vote against it would constituent Linda Murray. Linda started work at the take away from us. The first is reforming auto-enrolment age of 16. Although she has worked throughout her life, to make it work. That was the subject of an independent she has never had the benefit of a workplace pension, or review that we set up last summer, which was conducted had the means to provide one for herself. She works by highly respected advisers who want to make auto- 47 hours a week for a dry cleaner, and it is hard manual enrolment work and get it in place next year. We have work: the sort of work that was described by my right heard that many women in their late 50s have no private hon. Friend the Member for Croydon North. Linda is pension savings. Well, why is that? Who was in charge no longer with her husband, and full retirement is not for the past 13 years? We want to make auto-enrolment an option for her, at least for a few years. Her take-home work, and to get on with that. Voting down this Bill pay is £267 a week, and she faces the impossible task of would stop us in our tracks. 123 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 124

Dr Whiteford: Will the Minister give way? employee’s pension. Does the right hon. Gentleman think that might in any sense undermine the credibility Steve Webb: In a little while; I want to make some of our proposals? progress first. The Bill’s third key element—which, again, voting it Dr Whiteford: I agree with the Minister that this issue down would stop—is making judges put some money has been glossed over in today’s debate, but in our into their pensions. I think that Members were rather debate on welfare reform last week great store was set shocked when they discovered that the taxpayer put by so-called mini-jobs. It seems to me that those are 32% of a judge’s salary into a judge’s pension, and that exactly the jobs that will not be included in auto-enrolment. the judge in respect of their own pension entitlements Can the Minister understand why that fuels concern puts a big fat juicy zero. This Bill will correct that. If the that a mini-job is simply a euphemism for a low-paid, Opposition succeed in voting it down, they will stop us low-skilled job that keeps women trapped in poverty? doing so. We need to make progress with the Bill, therefore. Second Reading is about the principles, and Steve Webb: The hon. Lady will be aware of the we stand firmly behind them. national insurance floor of roughly £100 a week. Many In the debate, the shadow Secretary of State, the right of these mini-jobs, as she describes them, will be below hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne)— that and would not be covered by auto-enrolment anyway, who has rejoined us now—glossed over the auto-enrolment but once such people are above the threshold for national provisions and said the Labour party will vote against insurance, they will be able to opt in should they want the Bill. That would leave £30 billion to be found, as to. Moreover, if a mini-job occurs later in life and they that is what the Bill would put into the Exchequer. have some track record of a connection with pensions, When asked where the money would come from, he they might well have a conversation with their employer replied, “Well, we’d move a bit faster on age 67” and about opting in and triggering the employer contribution. then added, in brackets as it were, “in the 2030s.” For a former Chief Secretary to the Treasury to tell us that Several hon. Members rose— the way to find money for a problem in the next Parliament is to look to somewhere in the 2030s sounds Steve Webb: As there were 25 contributions to the vaguely familiar. The answer is always, “Tomorrow, and debate, I want to try to respond to some of the points tomorrow, and tomorrow”— that were made, and then I will certainly give way some more. Mr Byrne: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff North (Jonathan Evans)—indeed, Cardiff was well represented in the Steve Webb: In a second. [HON.MEMBERS: “Give debate: by my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff way.”] I will give way. The reason there is no money, as Central (Jenny Willott) and by the hon. Member for the right hon. Gentleman said, is because difficult decisions Arfon (Hywel Williams), who raised issues relating to were always deferred to tomorrow. Allied Steel and Wire—pointed out Labour’s track record on pensions. He was right to do so, because although Mr Byrne: I am grateful to the Minister for giving one or two Opposition Members glossed over history, way. He is making his remarks with his customary he reminded us of the 75p pension increase—something eloquence. As the following figure has not been presented that can never happen again under our triple lock. He this afternoon, will he remind the House precisely how reminded us of the failure of the previous Government much the acceleration of the state pension age for to get to grips with Equitable Life; of the tax grab by women before 2018 will save? Is the sum about the previous Chancellor and Prime Minister on company £1.2 billion—yes or no? pensions. That is not a proud record. The hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Steve Webb: Interestingly, the right hon. Gentleman Begg), the Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee, and his colleague the shadow Minister are saying two made a characteristically thoughtful contribution and I different things. The right hon. Gentleman knows that am grateful for her support for our abolition of the the sum for the changes up to 2020 is £10 billion. His default retirement age. The link to that issue has not shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Leeds West often been made in today’s debate. The previous (Rachel Reeves), says we should delay to 2020 and find Government were planning to raise the state pension £10 billion therefore, while he wants to vote against the age to 66, 67 or 68—but to leave it as legal to sack Bill and find £30 billion at some time in the 2030s. I people for turning 65. There is a logical flaw there, and I think the House knows where we stand on that. am sure the House is ahead of me on that. It is therefore I am grateful to those Members who took the trouble right that we have taken away employers’ ability to sack to address auto-enrolment, but the shadow Secretary of people for the “sin” of turning 65. State glossed over that issue. He said we ought to enrol I am also grateful for the hon. Lady’s support for our at £5,000, which is not the right figure, but let us accept going ahead with the National Employment Savings it for the sake of argument. He then said we should not Trust and the flexibility around auto-enrolment in 2012. put up the threshold. Therefore, under his scheme with She asked whether our £10 billion estimate of the cost the threshold at £5,000, someone who earned £5,100 of delay to 2020 was a gross or net figure. It is a net would be auto-enrolled on that £100, and as we start at figure, taking account of benefit offsets. However, a lot 1%, they would have to put in £1—not £1 a week, but of the points that she and a number of other Members £1 a year, or 2p a week. That is what will happen if we made would apply whenever we raised state pension do not let this Bill make progress. We will be requiring ages. For example, it was the hon. Member for Erith employers and employees to put 2p per week into the and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce), I think, who asked, 125 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 126

“What will happen to volunteers? What will happen to The hon. Member for Arfon asked about Allied Steel carers?” Those are important questions, but they would and Wire workers and the financial assistance scheme. I of course arise whenever state pension ages are raised—and can confirm that I met them along with the Secretary of she supports a party that legislated to raise the pension State for Wales and Dr Ros Altmann, who has done a age to 68. She is right that these issues need to be huge amount of good work in this area, back in November addressed, but they exist not specifically because of this and that I wrote to update the Secretary of State last Bill but because of legislation that is already in place. week. We are aiming to provide forecasts for financial assistance scheme members once the wind-up process Mr Watts: Is it not a fact that, if the Minister accepted for schemes is completed. In the case of ASW, the the Opposition’s proposals, they would deal with the scheme is still winding up, so the financial assistance short-term problem, the long-term problem and the scheme is not yet in a position to provide forecasts, but unfairness, and he would probably get more support we hope to make progress later this year. The hon. from his own party? Gentleman also asked about Dr Altmann’s ideas for getting money into the scheme and we have looked at Steve Webb: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for trying to release value from annuities. That is not looking recognising that there is a long-term problem, which as hopeful as we had hoped but we are working hard to not all his colleagues have done. see if that can be done and I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making the point. My hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Nick Boles) made the point that this is not My hon. Friend the Member for Ipswich (Ben Gummer) about the deficit. That is quite true—these measures do gets the prize for making the sharpest intervention. He not save us money in the current comprehensive spending pointed out to the shadow Secretary of State the legal review period. However, I have a figure to present to the advice and comments made by my noble Friend Lord House: £1.3 trillion. That is the national debt at the end Freud in the House of Lords on 30 March. I know that of this Parliament, even after our austerity measures. my hon. Friend reads little else and I am grateful to him That is the legacy; that is the reason we need to get a for drawing those comments to our attention. grip on these matters. [Interruption.] As the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill has asked the question, let me tell him the As well as the 25 Members who spoke today, there answer before he asks again. My noble Friend was were two almost silent voices—especially silent in the responding to an amendment that would have slowed Opposition’s contributions. The first silent voice was the process at which we equalise the men’s and women’s tomorrow’s taxpayer. Labour wants to put the Bill into state pension age. The right hon. Gentleman will know the 2030s. If we delay the changes, all these things will that we are on a process of equalisation, and the legal have to be paid for by someone else. As long as it is not issue is that we deviate from equalisation if at any point the people who write to us—somebody else will pay, we widen the gap. The coalition reference to moving and they do not write to us, so that is fine. That voice men in 2016 and women in 2020 would widen that gap. needs to be heard. The issue is directive 79/7, which The second voice that was not really heard much in “deals with the progressive implementation of the principle of the debate—although a few coalition Members did equal treatment for men and women in matters of social security…Any raise it—was that of employers. Of course, many of the change we now wish to make needs to be considered in relation to Bill’s measures on auto-enrolment are about easing the the position left by the 1995 Act.”—[Official Report, House of burden it imposes, particularly on smaller firms, which Lords, 30 March 2011; Vol. 726, c. 1279.] are crucial to our recovery and the fundamental That is on the record and has been for several months. improvement of the economy. These measures strike a balance. The waiting period gives employers time to get Mr Byrne: I am grateful to the Minister for finally people on the payroll. The threshold enables employers setting out that legal advice to the House, but he must to take on people on a lower wage, with less bureaucratic answer this question: why was the commitment in the burden. The voice of the employer and the costs and coalition agreement if there was a law that made it burdens on business were issues that the Opposition impossible? almost did not raise at all. My hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff Central Steve Webb: If it had been self-evidently not possible, (Jenny Willott) was very generous in her remarks, supporting I think that the right hon. Gentleman would have the measures on judges and on auto-enrolment. She pointed it out in the past 12 months, but I have not quite properly raised concerns about the state pension heard him do so. age, but she made an important point about our state The right hon. Member for Croydon North (Malcolm pension reform agenda generally. There are two sides to Wicks) made a characteristically thoughtful speech and the state pension deal—when people get it and what I hope that he is on the Public Bill Committee. That they get. One Opposition Member this evening described would lengthen our proceedings, but in a very nice way. the state pension as a pittance, but who oversaw it at He raised the important issue of the entitlement of that level for 13 years? We have brought forward, in our people with long years of national insurance payments Green Paper, proposals for a single tier of state pensions to a national insurance pension. He generously referred set above the level of the means test. That is one of our to the fact that I taught his daughter at university; I reform options and that is the pension, if those proposals hope that I contributed in some way to her social go ahead, that every one of the women we have been mobility as a result. He raised the serious issue of using talking about today would get, so there is an issue about long periods of national insurance records. As my right when they get the pension, but there is also, crucially, an hon. Friend the Secretary of State pointed out, the issue about what they get. We are actively looking into records before 1975 are a mess, which the right hon. that and I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising it. Gentleman will know as he is one of my many predecessors. 127 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 128

[Steve Webb] that. The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) raised issues about auto-enrolment. I Our ability to use those records is very limited and one have already pointed out why we are doing it and the of my concerns about his proposal, which I am happy balance that we are trying to strike. My hon. Friend the to discuss with him in a genuinely open way, is the Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax) spoke about position of women, because they would have to be the fragility of private sector pensions. I agree with him. credited for times when they were not in paid work. That is why it is vital that we move ahead with the Bill Some of that paid work will have been before home and make auto-enrolment work, rather than delaying it, responsibilities protection was introduced and so we as the Opposition want. simply would not know who to credit. That is only one The hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth of the issues, but as I have said, we are happy to engage (Debbie Abrahams) asked whether people will be able with him in the spirit of openness. to work in their later years. I can tell her that women are already, on average, leaving the labour market after Malcolm Wicks: I am grateful for that. My point was state pension age. In 2004 women on average left the that those who have been working since the age of 15 or labour market at 61.6 years. In the past six years that 16 in manual occupations are often physically worn out has gone up by more than a year, so there are already and need to retire earlier than Governments have proposed. trends of longer working lives. We need to build on If the objections or concerns are technical, that suggests them. that if there is a technical way forward, we could arrive at it—could we not? The hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Bain) said that other countries are following a different path. I Steve Webb: As I have said, I am happy to engage can tell him that they are not. Other countries are with the right hon. Gentleman in an open and constructive raising their state pension ages and in some cases raising way. I suspect that wishing away the technical problems them faster than we are. My hon. Friend the Member might be more difficult than he imagines, but I am for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart) supported many happy to have that dialogue with him. aspects of the reforms. I congratulate him on a very well My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard researched contribution. I am grateful to him for the Graham) who chairs the all-party group on occupational principles that he set out—simplicity and making auto- pensions— enrolment work—and I note his comments about the state pension age changes. Sheila Gilmore: Will the Minister give way? On that issue, which has clearly been the focal point of the debate, let me sum up the position. We heard a Steve Webb: As I have five minutes to respond, I had number of hon. Members raise their concerns about the better not. state pension age. The Government’s position is clear. My hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester made a We are not simply living longer; we are living longer at a characteristically thoughtful contribution. I am grateful faster rate. The improvement of five years in life expectancy to him for that. He raised the issue of intergenerational at pension age took 70 years between 1920 and 1990. fairness, which goes to the heart of the Bill. It is why we The next similar improvement happened in 20 years. need to progress with it and debate it through the The improvement in longevity is like a runaway train. House. A number of our constituents who have written We must address that. Those who vote against Second to us about the Bill imagine that this is the only chance Reading are not just deficit deniers, but longevity deniers. we get to debate it. We will be in Committee right up to They need to recognise the real changes. the final day before the summer recess, I am delighted My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, in his to say, and we will return to it on Report, so there is characteristically resolute way, confirmed that the ample opportunity to debate and discuss the Bill. Government believe that we need to equalise more The hon. Member for Sunderland Central (Julie Elliott) rapidly and reach age 66 as the retirement age more raised the issue of manual labourers. I accept that that rapidly, but he also said that he recognised that we need is an important point, which needs to be addressed. My to implement that fairly and manage the transition hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen) smoothly. He went on to say that he heard the specific quite properly raised the issue of long-term principles. I concerns about a relatively small number of women and hope he will respond to our Green Paper consultation, that he was willing to work to get the transition right. I which looks specifically at age 67 and 68, mechanisms am committed to doing the same, together with him. and processes. Those are the principal issues that we are If the House were to reject the Bill tonight, those who trying to raise. vote against must tell us where £30 billion will come The hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead, who from, how they will make auto-enrolment work and tabled the relevant early-day motion, asked about transfers why judges should not have to pay for their pensions. I into NEST and so on. As she knows, the idea of NEST commend the Bill to the House. was to get the thing going and to cater particularly for Question put, That the Bill be now read a Second people who might not otherwise have access to a pension. time. Once that roll-out is complete in 2017, the whole system will be reviewed and the issue of transfers-in will be The House divided: Ayes 302, Noes 232. looked at as part of that review, so I can give her that Division No. 299] [9.59 pm assurance. My hon. Friend the Member for York Outer (Julian AYES Sturdy) supported the Bill and said that good governance Adams, Nigel Alexander, rh Danny is about taking decisions in the long-term interests of Afriyie, Adam Amess, Mr David our country, which is what the Bill does. I thank him for Aldous, Peter Andrew, Stuart 129 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 130

Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Ellison, Jane Johnson, Gareth Poulter, Dr Daniel Bacon, Mr Richard Ellwood, Mr Tobias Jones, Andrew Pritchard, Mark Baker, Norman Elphicke, Charlie Jones, Mr Marcus Pugh, John Baker, Steve Eustice, George Kelly, Chris Raab, Mr Dominic Baldry, Tony Evans, Graham Kirby, Simon Randall, rh Mr John Baldwin, Harriett Evans, Jonathan Knight, rh Mr Greg Reckless, Mark Barclay, Stephen Evennett, Mr David Kwarteng, Kwasi Redwood, rh Mr John Barker, Gregory Fabricant, Michael Laing, Mrs Eleanor Rees-Mogg, Jacob Baron, Mr John Fallon, Michael Lamb, Norman Reevell, Simon Barwell, Gavin Featherstone, Lynne Lancaster, Mark Reid, Mr Alan Bebb, Guto Field, Mr Mark Leadsom, Andrea Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Beith, rh Sir Alan Foster, rh Mr Don Lee, Jessica Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Bellingham, Mr Henry Fox,rhDrLiam Lee, Dr Phillip Robertson, Hugh Benyon, Richard Francois, rh Mr Mark Leech, Mr John Rogerson, Dan Beresford, Sir Paul Freeman, George Leigh, Mr Edward Rosindell, Andrew Bingham, Andrew Freer, Mike Leslie, Charlotte Rudd, Amber Birtwistle, Gordon Fullbrook, Lorraine Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Ruffley, Mr David Blackman, Bob Fuller, Richard Lewis, Brandon Russell, Bob Blackwood, Nicola Garnier, Mr Edward Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Rutley, David Blunt, Mr Crispin Garnier, Mark Lloyd, Stephen Sanders, Mr Adrian Boles, Nick Gauke, Mr David Lopresti, Jack Sandys, Laura Bone, Mr Peter George, Andrew Lord, Jonathan Selous, Andrew Bottomley, Sir Peter Gibb, Mr Nick Loughton, Tim Shapps, rh Grant Bradley, Karen Gilbert, Stephen Lumley, Karen Sharma, Alok Brake, Tom Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Macleod, Mary Shelbrooke, Alec Bray, Angie Glen, John Main, Mrs Anne Shepherd, Mr Richard Brazier, Mr Julian Goldsmith, Zac Maude, rh Mr Francis Simmonds, Mark Bridgen, Andrew Goodwill, Mr Robert May, rh Mrs Theresa Simpson, Mr Keith Brine, Mr Steve Gove, rh Michael Maynard, Paul Skidmore, Chris Brokenshire, James Graham, Richard McCartney, Karl Smith, Miss Chloe Brooke, Annette Grant, Mrs Helen McIntosh, Miss Anne Smith, Henry Buckland, Mr Robert Gray, Mr James McLoughlin, rh Mr Smith, Julian Burley, Mr Aidan Grayling, rh Chris Patrick Smith, Sir Robert Burns, Conor Green, Damian McVey, Esther Soames, Nicholas Burns, rh Mr Simon Greening, Justine Mensch, Mrs Louise Soubry, Anna Burrowes, Mr David Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Menzies, Mark Spencer, Mr Mark Burstow, Paul Griffiths, Andrew Mercer, Patrick Stanley, rh Sir John Burt, Alistair Gummer, Ben Metcalfe, Stephen Stephenson, Andrew Burt, Lorely Halfon, Robert Miller, Maria Stevenson, John Byles, Dan Hames, Duncan Mills, Nigel Stewart, Bob Cairns, Alun Hammond, rh Mr Philip Moore, rh Michael Stewart, Iain Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hammond, Stephen Morgan, Nicky Stewart, Rory Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hancock, Matthew Morris, Anne Marie Streeter, Mr Gary Carmichael, Neil Hands, Greg Morris, David Stuart, Mr Graham Carswell, Mr Douglas Harper, Mr Mark Morris, James Stunell, Andrew Cash, Mr William Harris, Rebecca Mosley, Stephen Sturdy, Julian Chishti, Rehman Hart, Simon Mowat, David Swayne, Mr Desmond Clark, rh Greg Harvey, Nick Mulholland, Greg Syms, Mr Robert Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Haselhurst, rh Sir Mundell, rh David Tapsell, Sir Peter Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Alan Munt, Tessa Teather, Sarah Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hayes, Mr John Murray, Sheryll Thurso, John Collins, Damian Heath, Mr David Murrison, Dr Andrew Timpson, Mr Edward Colvile, Oliver Heaton-Harris, Chris Neill, Robert Tomlinson, Justin Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hemming, John Newmark, Mr Brooks Tredinnick, David Crabb, Stephen Henderson, Gordon Newton, Sarah Truss, Elizabeth Crockart, Mike Hendry, Charles Nokes, Caroline Turner, Mr Andrew Crouch, Tracey Herbert, rh Nick Norman, Jesse Tyrie, Mr Andrew Davies, David T. C. Hinds, Damian Nuttall, Mr David Uppal, Paul (Monmouth) Hoban, Mr Mark O’Brien, Mr Stephen Vaizey, Mr Edward Davies, Glyn Hollingbery, George Offord, Mr Matthew Vara, Mr Shailesh Davies, Philip Hollobone, Mr Philip Ollerenshaw, Eric Vickers, Martin Davis, rh Mr David Hopkins, Kris Ottaway, Richard Walker, Mr Charles de Bois, Nick Horwood, Martin Paice, rh Mr James Walker, Mr Robin Dinenage, Caroline Howarth, Mr Gerald Parish, Neil Wallace, Mr Ben Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Howell, John Patel, Priti Ward, Mr David Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Hughes, rh Simon Pawsey, Mark Watkinson, Angela Dorries, Nadine Huppert, Dr Julian Penning, Mike Weatherley, Mike Doyle-Price, Jackie Hurd, Mr Nick Penrose, John Webb, Steve Drax, Richard Jackson, Mr Stewart Percy, Andrew Wharton, James Duddridge, James James, Margot Perry, Claire Wheeler, Heather Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Javid, Sajid Phillips, Stephen Whittaker, Craig Ellis, Michael Jenkin, Mr Bernard Pincher, Christopher Whittingdale, Mr John 131 Pensions Bill [Lords]20 JUNE 2011 Pensions Bill [Lords] 132

Wiggin, Bill Wright, Simon Jowell, rh Tessa Reeves, Rachel Williams, Mr Mark Yeo, Mr Tim Joyce, Eric Reynolds, Emma Williamson, Gavin Young, rh Sir George Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Riordan, Mrs Linda Willott, Jenny Zahawi, Nadhim Kendall, Liz Robertson, Angus Wilson, Mr Rob Tellers for the Ayes: Khan, rh Sadiq Robertson, John Wollaston, Dr Sarah Mr Philip Dunne and Lammy, rh Mr David Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Wright, Jeremy Mark Hunter Lavery, Ian Rotheram, Steve Lazarowicz, Mark Ruane, Chris Leslie, Chris Ruddock, rh Joan NOES Lewis, Mr Ivan Seabeck, Alison Abbott, Ms Diane Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Lloyd, Tony Sharma, Mr Virendra Abrahams, Debbie Doran, Mr Frank Love, Mr Andrew Sheerman, Mr Barry Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Dowd, Jim Lucas, Caroline Sheridan, Jim Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Dromey, Jack Lucas, Ian Shuker, Gavin Alexander, Heidi Dugher, Michael MacNeil, Mr Angus Simpson, David Ali, Rushanara Durkan, Mark Brendan Skinner, Mr Dennis Allen, Mr Graham Eagle, Ms Angela MacShane, rh Mr Denis Slaughter, Mr Andy Anderson, Mr David Eagle, Maria Mactaggart, Fiona Smith, rh Mr Andrew Ashworth, Jon Edwards, Jonathan Mahmood, Mr Khalid Smith, Angela Austin, Ian Efford, Clive Mahmood, Shabana Smith, Nick Bailey, Mr Adrian Elliott, Julie Mann, John Smith, Owen Bain, Mr William Ellman, Mrs Louise Marsden, Mr Gordon Spellar, rh Mr John Balls, rh Ed Engel, Natascha McCabe, Steve Straw, rh Mr Jack Banks, Gordon Esterson, Bill McCarthy, Kerry Stringer, Graham Barron, rh Mr Kevin Evans, Chris McClymont, Gregg Stuart, Ms Gisela Beckett, rh Margaret Farrelly, Paul McCrea, Dr William Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Begg, Dame Anne Field, rh Mr Frank McDonagh, Siobhain Tami, Mark Bell, Sir Stuart Fitzpatrick, Jim McDonnell, John Thomas, Mr Gareth Benn, rh Hilary Flello, Robert McFadden, rh Mr Pat Thornberry, Emily Berger, Luciana Flint, rh Caroline McGovern, Alison Timms, rh Stephen Betts, Mr Clive Fovargue, Yvonne McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Trickett, Jon McKechin, Ann Blears, rh Hazel Francis, Dr Hywel Turner, Karl Blenkinsop, Tom Gapes, Mike McKinnell, Catherine Twigg, Stephen Blomfield, Paul Gardiner, Barry Meacher, rh Mr Michael Umunna, Mr Chuka Blunkett, rh Mr David Gilmore, Sheila Mearns, Ian Vaz, Valerie Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Glass, Pat Michael, rh Alun Walley, Joan Brown, Lyn Glindon, Mrs Mary Miliband, rh David Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Godsiff, Mr Roger Miliband, rh Edward Watson, Mr Tom Bryant, Chris Goggins, rh Paul Miller, Andrew Watts, Mr Dave Buck, Ms Karen Goodman, Helen Mitchell, Austin Weir, Mr Mike Burnham, rh Andy Greatrex, Tom Moon, Mrs Madeleine Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Byrne, rh Mr Liam Green, Kate Morden, Jessica Whitehead, Dr Alan Campbell, Mr Alan Greenwood, Lilian Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Wicks, rh Malcolm Campbell, Mr Ronnie Griffith, Nia Morris, Grahame M. Williams, Hywel Caton, Martin Gwynne, Andrew (Easington) Williamson, Chris Chapman, Mrs Jenny Hain, rh Mr Peter Mudie, Mr George Wilson, Phil Clarke, rh Mr Tom Hamilton, Mr David Munn, Meg Winnick, Mr David Clwyd, rh Ann Hamilton, Fabian Murphy, rh Paul Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Coaker, Vernon Hanson, rh Mr David Nandy, Lisa Wishart, Pete Coffey, Ann Harman, rh Ms Harriet Nash, Pamela Wood, Mike Cooper, Rosie Havard, Mr Dai Onwurah, Chi Woodcock, John Cooper, rh Yvette Healey, rh John Owen, Albert Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Pearce, Teresa Corbyn, Jeremy Hendrick, Mark Wright, David Crausby, Mr David Heyes, David Perkins, Toby Wright, Mr Iain Creagh, Mary Hillier, Meg Phillipson, Bridget Creasy, Stella Hodge, rh Margaret Pound, Stephen Tellers for the Noes: Cruddas, Jon Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Qureshi, Yasmin Jonathan Reynolds and Cryer, John Hoey, Kate Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Graham Jones Cunningham, Alex Hopkins, Kelvin Cunningham, Mr Jim Hosie, Stewart Question accordingly agreed to. Cunningham, Tony Howarth, rh Mr George Curran, Margaret Hunt, Tristram Bill read a Second time. Dakin, Nic Irranca-Davies, Huw Danczuk, Simon Jackson, Glenda Darling, rh Mr Alistair James, Mrs Siân PENSIONS BILL [LORDS] (PROGRAMME) David, Mr Wayne C. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Davies, Geraint Jamieson, Cathy Order No. 83A(7)), De Piero, Gloria Jarvis, Dan Denham, rh Mr John Johnson, rh Alan That the following provisions shall apply to the Pensions Bill [Lords]: Dobbin, Jim Jones, Helen Dobson, rh Frank Jones, Mr Kevan Committal Docherty, Thomas Jones, Susan Elan 1. The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee. 133 20 JUNE 2011 Business without Debate 134

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee That the draft International Tax Enforcement (Grenada) 2. Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not Order 2011, which was laid before this House on 4 April, be previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday approved. 19 July 2011. That the draft Double Taxation Relief (Qatar) Order 2011, 3. The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the which was laid before this House on 4 April, be approved. first day on which it meets. That the draft International Tax Enforcement (San Marino) Consideration and Third Reading Order 2011, which was laid before this House on 4 April, be 4. Proceedings on consideration shall (so far as not previously approved.—(Stephen Crabb.) concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the Question agreed to. moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing are commenced. Order No. 118(6)), 5. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption CONTRACTING OUT on that day. That the draft Contracting Out (Local Authorities Social 6. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall Services Functions) (England) Order 2011, which was laid before not apply to proceedings on consideration and Third Reading. this House on 10 May, be approved.—(Stephen Crabb.) Other proceedings Question agreed to. 7. Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE on consideration of any message from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Steve Webb.) Ordered, Question agreed to. That, at the sitting on Tuesday 21 June, notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph (7) of Standing Order No. 83A (Programme motions), proceedings on the Motion in the name of Mr Secretary PENSIONS BILL [LORDS] (MONEY) Lansley relating to Health and Social Care Bill (Programme) (No. 2) shall be brought to a conclusion not later than one hour Queen’s Recommendation signified. after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion, at which Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing time the Speaker shall put the Question; and no amendments to Order No. 52(1)(a)), the Motion shall be moved.—(Sir George Young.) That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Pensions Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money Mr Speaker: Before I invite the hon. Member for provided by Parliament of— Broxbourne (Mr Walker) to present his petition, which (1) any expenditure incurred in consequence of the Act by the I know Members will be eagerly anticipating, I appeal Secretary of State, and to right hon. and hon. Members who are leaving the (2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable Chamber to do so quickly and quietly, extending the under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Steve Webb.) same courtesy to the hon. Gentleman that they would Question agreed to. want to be extended to them in such circumstances. PETITION PENSIONS BILL [LORDS] (WAYS AND MEANS) Cheshunt Urgent Care Centre (Hertfordshire) Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing 10.19 pm Order No. 52(1)(a)), Mr Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): When coming That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Pensions Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise— here tonight, I received a text from Tony Siracusa, who (1) the levying of charges under the Pension Schemes Act 1993 said: for the purpose of meeting expenditure of the Secretary of State “Tonight, Charles, you’re our voice. Please continue to ensure in making grants under that Act, we are heard in the House of Commons.” and I intend to do that this evening. (2) the payment of sums into the Consolidated Fund.—(Steve Before I present the petition I should like to thank Webb.) Paul Mason, the leader of Broxbourne council, who Question agreed to. organised an excellent march in support of the urgent care centre about which I am petitioning tonight. I also Business without Debate thank our campaigning newspaper, the Mercury, and in particular Gemma Gardner and the editor Gary Matthews. The petition states: DELEGATED LEGISLATION The Petition of residents of Broxbourne Borough and surrounding Mr Speaker: With the agreement of the House, we areas, shall take motions 5 to 9 together. Declares that the decision taken by Hertfordshire Primary Care Trust to close Cheshunt Urgent Care Centre (UCC) fails to Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing recognise the importance and value of the UCC to the local Order No. 118(6)), community. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons TAXES urges the Secretary of State for Health to use his offices to That the draft International Tax Enforcement (Belize) Order 2011, intervene in the matter to require the PCT to revisit its decision in which was laid before this House on 4 April, be approved. regards to the UCC, and keep GP-led services operating at the site. That the draft International Tax Enforcement (Dominica) Order 2011, which was laid before this House on 4 April, be And the Petitioners remain, etc. approved. [P000930] 135 20 JUNE 2011 Private Gary Barlow 136

Private Gary Barlow Medical Corps and taken to hospital, but tragically he died early the next morning. The Provisional IRA claimed Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House responsibility for Gary’s death, but no one was ever do now adjourn.—(Stephen Crabb.) charged with his murder, although several people were investigated and a number of searches were carried out. 10.21 pm Again, in the context of the time, when it was difficult Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): I am grateful to get people to co-operate with the police, that is for this opportunity to raise the case of Private Gary entirely understandable. Barlow, who served with the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment, However, in one raid, Gary’s rifle was found. It had was shot in Northern Ireland on 4 March 1973 and died not been fired. When the inquiry team investigated the early the next morning. He was 19 years old. case, as well as looking at the facts, they considered There may be those who wonder why a case that is concerns raised by Gary’s family that his hearing had now nearly 40 years old should be debated on the been damaged in an earlier incident. The team found in Floor of the House. My answer is simple: it is about his service record a note of an incident on 5 February justice for Gary, for his family and for the people who that year. They thought that that may have related to an tried to save him. Not only was Gary Barlow tragically earlier incident in the Divis flats, when soldiers were killed, but his bravery was never properly recognised attacked by a blast bomb. They acknowledged that and his family suffered, and continue to suffer, both Gary’s family received a call shortly afterwards from because of his death and because of what happened to one of his friends who said that he could not speak on them after it. It is in the hope that we can at least the phone because his hearing had been damaged. The provide some recognition of Gary’s bravery tonight, inquiry team therefore concluded that it was likely that and at least some modicum of comfort to his family, Gary did not hear the order to withdraw, either because that I have asked for this debate. of where he was in the building, or because his hearing Gary’s death was investigated by the Historical Enquiries had been damaged earlier. Team set up by the Police Service of Northern Ireland The facts of Gary’s death are tragic enough. However, in 2005 to investigate any deaths that were attributable I also believe that he and his family were let down by to what we still call the troubles, and to try to bring what happened on that day and by their treatment later. some resolution to the families involved. It is, of course, The first question of course is whether Gary was fit for very difficult to bring things to a conclusion after so duty that day. The inquiry team was not able to resolve much time has elapsed. Some witnesses are no longer that satisfactorily because his Army medical records available and some documents are no longer there. were not available. However, I think that his family and However, the inquiry team did a very thorough job, and others would want to know that lessons have been the basic facts of what happened to Gary on that day learnt and that no soldier will again be put in such a are now clear. I want to summarise them, if I may—and position when their hearing might be impaired. it will be a summary, not a full account, because of the There were also failures on the part of the lieutenant time available. and the corporal in command of Gary’s section that On 4 March Gary was part of a patrol that was sent day. Even when due allowances are made for the stress to the Divis flats to carry out a search operation. A that they were under at that time, and for the extremely soldier had been shot and wounded there earlier in the difficult situation in which they found themselves, they day. The soldiers searched some premises, and then should have made sure that all their men were accounted joined others in a Saracen armoured personnel carrier. for. The British Army expects very high standards of its At that point they heard a shot, and the men got out to officers and non-commissioned officers. Those standards deploy in defensive positions. Those at the Army observation are generally met and even exceeded. However, on this post on the top of the Divis flats pinpointed where they occasion, they fell short and that mistake led to Gary’s thought the gunman was, and the soldiers were ordered death. to carry out a search. They encountered some difficulties The Ministry of Defence later wrote Gary’s parents a in doing so, but they used the Saracen to ram the doors very detailed letter. It put the failure down to the very of the garage opposite, and Gary and another soldier difficult operational circumstances that prevailed at the were ordered to search that building. time. However, the inquiry team pointed out that those Not surprisingly in the context of the time, a hostile circumstances prevailed throughout Northern Ireland crowd gathered. As the situation deteriorated and the and that they would nevertheless have expected what light was fading, the lieutenant in charge ordered his they called military discipline and training to kick in to men to withdraw. They all got back into the Saracen, ensure that a proper roll-call was taken. except Gary. No roll-call was taken at the time. It It was not, and it appears from the evidence that appears from witness statements that the lieutenant Gary, left alone, was attacked by a group of youths. asked the two corporals to account for all their men. Some women in the area urged him to leave. He refused Gary’s corporal shouted to ask whether they were all to leave his post. Remember that it seems that this back, and someone said yes. It was only when the patrol young man was not aware that he had been ordered to got back to base that Gary’s room-mate realised that he withdraw. He stood his ground and fought back. He did was missing. At the same time, two young girls arrived, not discharge his rifle. His family believes—and it seems sent by a woman in the Divis flats, at some considerable reasonable—that he did not do so to avoid the possibility risk to herself and to them, to tell the Army that a of injury to civilians. Eventually, he was shot in the soldier had been left behind. head and neck. The inquiry team said that, in not firing A patrol later found Gary, face down on the floor of his rifle and in standing his ground, he displayed courage that garage, shot and bleeding profusely from a head and strength of character. I believe he did more than wound. He was given medical care by the Royal Army that: he acted in the finest tradition of the British Army, 137 Private Gary Barlow20 JUNE 2011 Private Gary Barlow 138 both in refusing to leave his post and trying to stand his 10.34 pm ground, and in trying to avoid injury to civilians. We The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence should remember that this was a young man of only 19. (Mr Andrew Robathan): I pay tribute to the hon. Member Many who are older and more experienced would have for Warrington North (Helen Jones) for securing this done less, but he held out until the end. debate on the very tragic death of Private Gary Barlow Gary’s bravery, however—this is the sad thing—was slightly over 38 years ago. As it happens, I know the never properly recognised. His family have fought for a Divis flats and the observation tower. I have served and long time to find out the true circumstances of his seen the difficulties of operating there, as did the Queen’s death, and to ensure that he is recognised. I pay tribute Lancashire Regiment in 1973. to them this evening, especially to his parents and his Private Barlow joined the Army in 1970 and went sister, Tina. They did so even though they themselves into the Queen’s Lancashire Regiment, and he deployed suffered after his death. They were not notified of the to Northern Ireland with his regiment in the early years inquest, for instance, even though his father had expressed of Operation Banner, at the end of 1972, when the a wish to attend. In fact, they read the inquest verdict in violence in Northern Ireland was at its height. Tragically the Daily Mirror. I ask the House to try to comprehend he was killed in Belfast on 5 March 1973 aged just 19. how it must be to lose a son in such circumstances, and There was absolutely no doubt who killed him: responsibility then for the family to read about an inquest that they for his death was admitted by the IRA and the murderous did not know had taken place. thugs who supported it in the Divis flats. He was part of Gary’s things were returned to his family in a slovenly a four-man patrol that had deployed to search an area way—in boxes, without even a note or covering letter—thus following a series of shooting incidents. The patrol was increasing their grief. Most of all, as well as letters of forced to withdraw rapidly as a hostile crowd had condolence, they received death threats. As a result, gathered, and Private Barlow was in the process of they were advised by the police to leave their home. searching a garage at the time and did not withdraw They have only just returned to the Warrington area. with the rest of his unit, as we have heard. Nevertheless, they have sought recognition for the Unfortunately it was not until later that Private Barlow’s bravery of their son and brother. That bravery has been patrol realised that he was missing—the hon. Lady recognised elsewhere. The inquiry team discovered one brought out one or two very good points about that—and of the young girls who was sent to the Army post on returned to retrieve him, by which time he had been that day—of course, she is now a grown woman. She shot and injured by the IRA. Tragically, he said that her mother was too frail to be interviewed by succumbed to his injuries in hospital later that night. the team, but that she nevertheless prayed for Gary Had he lived, Private Barlow would have seen his every day. She also said that once a year, the women in 58th birthday this week. He was one of more than the area organised a mass for the repose of his soul. We 250,000 service personnel who saw service in Northern should remember that those women were in a staunchly Ireland during the 38 years of Operation Banner, republican area of Belfast, yet they recognised the which was the longest single operation ever mounted bravery of that young man. by the British Army. The Army demonstrated a resolute, disciplined and flexible attitude towards We should do no less. I know that it is too late for adapting to a unique deployment of military forces on Gary to receive a gallantry award. His mother received UK territory—it was never a happy occasion. The the Elizabeth cross last year—I am proud that Labour resilience that our soldiers displayed over such a long introduced that—but as the Minister and hon. Members period and under extremely difficult circumstances greatly will know, the Elizabeth cross recognises the sacrifice of contributed to the peace that now exists. They and the the families of those who are killed on operations, and community at large have suffered death and injury, and is not in itself a gallantry award for the person killed. we should again take this opportunity to remember However, that young man behaved admirably, and I their commitment, bravery and sacrifice, and that of hope that we can tonight finally put on the record our Private Barlow. appreciation of his bravery. In recognition of the ultimate sacrifice paid by Private Gary’s family gave him to the Army and to his Barlow, his mother, Mrs Rona Barlow, has already been country. Let us be honest, even after all these years: he presented with the Elizabeth cross and the memorial was let down, and they were let down. People who join scroll. The Elizabeth cross is awarded as a symbol of the forces expect to put their lives on the line if necessary, national recognition of the sacrifice and loss of those but they also expect proper care to be taken of their UK armed forces personnel who have died on operations welfare and, if they are killed, proper care to be taken of or owing to acts of terrorism. It is a reminder of the the welfare of their families. In that way, we failed, yet I contribution made by those who have paid the ultimate have never once heard Gary’s family complain. Their price for our freedom and our security, and of how only concern is for him. highly their service is valued. Regrettably, however, it is I once said to Gary’s mother, “You must be very not for me to recommend that Private Barlow be given a proud of him, Mrs Barlow.” She replied, very simply, further award. Our honours and awards system relies “Yes, I am.” This young man was a fine British soldier on the bestowal of gallantry awards soon after the event and a very brave young man indeed. It is time that we for which it is believed an individual’s actions should be recognised that. His mother is proud of him; we should recognised. be proud of him too. I hope the Minister can put on the The convention adhered to is that no award can be record tonight how much we as a country appreciate the made for an event that took place more than five years sacrifice that Gary made, and ensure that the lessons previously. To rely on incomplete and sometimes have been learned, so that never again will a family be contradictory or anecdotal evidence so long after the put in this situation. event can be regarded as a slight to those commanders 139 Private Gary Barlow20 JUNE 2011 Private Gary Barlow 140

[Mr Andrew Robathan] dedicated visiting officers are able to guide, support and assist families through the difficult times of the repatriation at all levels whose task it was to reward the most ceremony, funeral arrangements and the return of their deserving as they judged at the time. This system has loved one’s effects. The hon. Lady was quite right to been developed over many years, and is designed to draw attention to the way in which this could sometimes ensure that the process by which awards are made is fair be done in an arbitrary manner, with the arrival of and consistent, and it has stood the test of time. Neither some boxes containing a loved one’s effects. Visiting the present Government nor any previous Administration officers can be assigned to a bereaved family for six to have departed from the strict rule that British gallantry nine months, but support remains available through the awards are not granted retrospectively. Army’s inquiries and aftercare support cell, right up to Recommendations for gallantry awards are an inquest and beyond, unlike in 1973. generated by commanders in the field and scrutinised at All families show different reactions to the loss of a a number of levels by military committees, the last of loved one. Our visiting officers are trained to understand which is the Armed Forces Operational Awards the differences and react accordingly, so that the level of Committee, which comprises five senior officers representing support received is determined by the need of the all three services, and which ultimately recommends to family. The support is therefore enduring in nature and Her Majesty the Queen who should receive awards. This co-ordinated in provision. In addition to giving emotional process is completely independent of political influence, support, the visiting officer can act as a conduit to and it would not be possible—nor would it be right—for practical support regarding pensions, counselling and me to seek to influence this process. On a personal note, financial matters. This includes access to public funds however, I would like to take this opportunity to pass that are available to help families attend the significant on my condolences to Mrs Barlow for the loss of her events associated with their bereavement, helping with son, and to express my deep gratitude for his service to funeral expenses, travel to the repatriation, funeral and this country and her dignity in grief. I would also like to inquest, and accommodation. Public funds are also take this opportunity to put it on the record that we are available to help families after their initial period of fortunate to have individuals such as Gary Barlow, both grief and mourning to move on with their lives, through then and now, who are willing to demonstrate their the continuity of education allowance, the maintenance bravery by serving with our armed forces. In the words of the living overseas allowance, the ability to remain in of his commanding officer while expressing his and his service accommodation for up to two years and the regiment’s sadness and horror at Private Barlow’s death: transfer of the resettlement allowance. These are changes “He was a fine boy and a good and brave soldier”. that have happened since 1973. I am told—the hon. Lady mentioned this too—that I referred earlier to the lessons that are now learned the family were subjected to intense and often unwelcome in the field. The Army keeps all its procedures under media and public scrutiny, and to threats. I am sincerely continuous review to ensure the safety of its personnel. sorry for the additional distress that this must have Additionally, systems exist at various levels to identify caused them. In the 1970s, when Private Barlow was lessons from incidents and make recommendations to killed, very little support was offered to bereaved families take action to prevent similar circumstances from arising by the military, so I would also like to take this opportunity in future, including, where necessary, a statutory service to reassure his family and the House that measures now inquiry and, when there is a death during operations, a exist to prevent other families from suffering the same service police investigation. We are not complacent. experience. Despite the strides that have been made in recent years, Each death of a member of our armed forces is a we recognise that more can always be done. The armed tragedy—for their comrades and the country, but most forces covenant, which was published on 16 May, sets especially for their family, such as Private Barlow’s out what service personnel and their families can expect family. As the years have progressed, I believe that we from the Government and the nation in recognition of have got better at learning the lessons from each death, what we ask them to do to keep us safe. The Government both in the field and in how we help and support the are determined to remove disadvantages encountered as families left behind. Gone now are the days when the a result of service, as well as ensuring that the armed first that a family heard about the death of their loved forces community receives the recognition to which it is one was a tersely worded official telegram. Despite the entitled. By publishing the covenant we have a clear challenges of 24-hour media, we are largely successful sense of what we are trying to achieve and have established at ensuring that families hear from us before impromptu the right direction of travel that we will allow us to so. and unofficial sources when a tragedy occurs. Sadly, As a nation, we have an obligation to our servicemen with the increasing operational tempo since 9/11, we and women who, like Gary Barlow, commit themselves have learned a lot about loss and grief, and so have to the service of this country and risk paying the steadily improved the support and help available to ultimate price to keep us safe, as well as to the families families who lose a loved one. Every effort is made to who support their loved ones in the armed forces through ensure that the next of kin are informed as soon as good times and bad. Our commitment to them should possible by those who are appropriately trained, and a be just as enduring, and with the publication of the period of grace is given before the official announcement covenant, we believe that we have established a way of is made. It grieves me to say that this is going on even ensuring that this commitment does not waver. The this week, as we know. nation will hold us to account. Since 2005 we have appointed and trained both casualty I reiterate what I said to the hon. Lady earlier. This notification officers and visiting officers, so that the was an awful tragedy. As it happens, I also joined the support that we offer families is not provided by those Army in 1970, and to think of a young man of 19 being associated with the delivery of the worst news. Our killed in that way in Northern Ireland must bring us all 141 Private Gary Barlow20 JUNE 2011 Private Gary Barlow 142 grief. I hope that raising this matter in the House of Question put and agreed to. Commons will lead the Barlow family, and Mrs Rona Barlow and the sister whom the hon. Lady mentioned in particular, to appreciate that Private Barlow’s death 10.45 pm is recognised and truly appreciated by the nation. House adjourned.

1WS Written Ministerial Statements20 JUNE 2011 Written Ministerial Statements 2WS

I have today laid before Parliament “Government Written Ministerial Response to the NHS Future Forum”, Cm 8113, a detailed explanation of how the Government plan to Statements implement improvements to their plans for NHS modernisation. Some, but not all, of these changes require amendments to the Health and Social Care Bill. Monday 20 June 2011 On 16 June the Government tabled a motion to recommit the relevant parts of the Health and Social Care Bill to a Public Bill Committee. The House will debate this motion tomorrow. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT I am also laying before Parliament later today “Government Response to the House of Commons Burdens on Local Government Health Select Committee Fifth Report of Session 2010-11: Commissioning”, Cm 8100. “Government Response to the NHS Future Forum”, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Cm 8113 is in the Library. Copies are available to hon. Communities and Local Government (Robert Neill): Between Members from the Vote Office and to noble Lords from 1997 and 2010, council tax bills doubled. One of the the Printed Paper Office. Copies of “Government Response reasons for this was central Government imposed unfunded to the House of Commons Health Select Committee or under-funded burdens on local authorities. Fifth Report of Session 2010-11: Commissioning”, The coalition Government are committed to ensuring Cm 8100, will be available later today. that the net additional costs of all such new burdens from central Government policy or initiatives are fully funded to help keep council tax down. WORK AND PENSIONS The new burdens doctrine sets out the factors that Departments should take into account when considering Appointment of National Employment Savings Trust the costs and savings to local authorities arising from Corporation Trustee Members changes to policies and programmes. It applies to all Departments and covers all local authorities, including police authorities, fire and rescue authorities and local The Minister of State, Department for Work and precepting authorities. Pensions (Steve Webb): I am pleased to announce the appointment of the following trustee members of NEST As part of the Government’s commitment to this Corporation: principle, and in the spirit of greater transparency in Government, today I am publishing a copy of the Mr Iraj Amiri Whitehall internal guidance on this issue: “The New Mrs Sharon Darcy BurdensDoctrine,GuidanceforGovernmentDepartments”. Mr Nigel Stanley A copy has been placed in the Library of the House and These appointments will take effect from 20 June. itisalsoavailableontheCommunitiesandLocalGovernment The appointments will bring a wide breadth of website at: http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/ knowledge and skills to NEST Corporation, particularly localgovernment/newburdens2011. in the areas of representing the interests of consumers and financial management. The new trustee members will join the current chair HEALTH and six trustee members who were appointed last year. Together, they are the trustee of NEST and as such they have a fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of Government Response to NHS Future Forum scheme beneficiaries. Trustee members are also responsible for setting the strategic direction and objectives for NEST. The Secretary of State for Health (Mr Andrew Lansley): NEST Corporation is the trustee body responsible As I informed the House on 14 June 2011, the Government for running the NEST scheme. It was set up under the have accepted the core recommendations of the NHS Pensions Act 2008 as a non-departmental public body Future Forum’s report. A list of the key changes the (NDPB) that operates at arm’s length from Government Government intend to make as a result has already been and is accountable to Parliament through the Department placed in the Library. for Work and Pensions (DWP).

1P Petitions20 JUNE 2011 Petitions 2P

Observations from the Secretary of State for Environment, Petition Food and Rural Affairs: The UK Government strongly oppose the hunting of Monday 20 June 2011 all whales, dolphins and porpoises other than some limited whaling by indigenous people to meet defined OBSERVATIONS subsistence need. The UK regularly raises its concern at both European and International level over the dolphin ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS hunts in Japan. We continue to call on Japan to halt its Dolphins (Japan) needless and unsustainable slaughter of these animals and are deeply disappointed that Japan continues to The Petition of residents of Workington, carry out these large-scale hunts, despite widespread Declares that the petitioners believe that there is a international opposition. need to raise awareness both nationally and internationally about the slaughter of thousands of dolphins each year The Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food in the waters around Japan; notes that it is estimated and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for that some 23,000 dolphins are slaughtered each year in Newbury (Richard Benyon) who is responsible for marine the area of Taijii; further declares that the petitioners and natural environment, wrote to his Japanese counterpart believe that there is a need to raise awareness for the in July 2010 to express the UK public’s concern and majority of Japanese citizens, who are unaware that this Government officials have met with the Japanese is going on in their country; and notes that the petitioners Government to highlight the UK’s opposition to the believe that the dolphin meat which is highly contaminated hunting of dolphins. is being distributed to an unaware Japanese public Dolphin meat has been reported to be highly protected by a Government that knows the dangers of contaminated with toxic chemicals such as mercury, this practice and the risks to health it poses. methyl mercury and PCBs. At the annual meeting of The Petitioners therefore request that the House of the International Whaling Commission, we urged whaling Commons urges the Government to take steps to raise nations to take note of the consequences of contamination awareness of the slaughter of dolphins and urges the for the animals themselves and also for the consumers. Foreign Secretary to call on the Japanese Government We called for more nations to inform consumers about to prevent the distribution of contaminated dolphin the associated health risks of contaminated meat. meat. The UK remains fundamentally opposed to the killing And the Petitioners remain, etc.—[Presented by Tony of dolphins in Japan and will continue to make it Cunningham, Official Report, 15 September 2010; Vol. 515, known at every appropriate opportunity, including at c. 970.] this year’s meeting of the International Whaling [P000860] Commission in July.

1W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 2W Written Answers to PRIME MINISTER Joint Ministerial Committee Questions Mr Dodds: To ask the Prime Minister what (a) issues were discussed and (b) agreements were reached at the Monday 20 June 2011 Joint Ministerial Committee held in London on 8 June 2011. [60634]

NORTHERN IRELAND The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the communiqué which was released following the Joint Departmental Regulation Ministerial Committee meeting on Wednesday 8 June 2011. This is available on the No. 10 website at: Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/latest-news/2011/06/joint- Northern Ireland (1) what regulations his Department ministerial-committee-communique-64530 introduced between 1 March 2011 and 31 May 2011; and what the estimated costs of implementation were Members: Correspondence for those affected in each case; [60328] (2) what the name is of each regulatory measure Nicholas Soames: To ask the Prime Minister if he will revoked by his Department between 1 March and 31 May publish the response from the President of the European 2011; and what estimate he has made of the potential Commission and the President of the European Council annual saving to those affected by each revocation. to the letter from himself and others of 18 March 2011, [60485] entitled Getting Europe Growing; and what reports he has received on the steps taken by the Commission in Mr Paterson: My Department introduced no regulations consequence. [59200] in the period 1 March 2011 and 31 May 2011 My Department has not repealed any regulations during ″ this period. The Prime Minister: In response to the Getting Europe Growing″ letter of 18 March, I received a EU Law supportive letter from the European Council President. A copy has been placed in the Library of the House. Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Following the letter of 18 March, the European Northern Ireland for what European directives in force Council of 24-25 March agreed on the importance of on 1 April 2010 his Department is responsible; and prioritising growth. Its conclusions agreed on the need what European directives for which his Department is for robust action at the European Union level to stimulate responsible have come into force since 1 April 2010. growth by: strengthening the single market, with an [60698] emphasis on services and the digital economy; reducing the overall burden of regulation; and promoting free, Mr Paterson: None. fair and open trade with countries outside the EU. Since then, the Commission has brought forward a number of initiatives in the areas we identified as priorities for EU growth. The Government continue to work WALES closely with the Commission and other member states NHS to make progress on this agenda.

Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for Wales Northern Ireland Assembly what recent discussions she has had with the First Minister of the Welsh Government on the effects of the Mr Dodds: To ask the Prime Minister if he will give proposed changes to the NHS in England on (a) the an assessment of the work of the Northern Ireland NHS in Wales and (b) cross-border provision of health Assembly following his recent visit and speech in the services; and if she will make a statement. [60091] Assembly chamber. [60633]

Mr David Jones: The Secretary of State for Wales, my The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham speech I gave to the Northern Ireland Assembly on (Mrs Gillan), and I have discussed the Health and Thursday 9 June 2011. A copy of the speech can be Social Care Bill with ministerial colleagues in the found on the No. 10 website at: Department of Health. The Wales Office and the http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/speeches-and-transcripts/ Department of Health will continue to work closely 2011/06/address-to-northern-ireland-assembly-64604 with the Welsh Government on the provisions in the Bill impacting on the NHS in Wales. In agreement with the Welsh Government, the coalition Government have renewed Royal Irish Regiment: Parades the existing Cross Border health services protocol for a further year until 31 March 2012. This will allow time Mr Dodds: To ask the Prime Minister how many for the structure of the new commissioning arrangements representations he has received on the decision by the in England to emerge more clearly before more detailed Ministry of Defence not to permit a homecoming parade consideration is given to cross border provision of services. for the Royal Irish Regiment in Belfast. [60630] 3W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 4W

The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the will announce our plans in due course. We will be answer I gave on 27 April 2011, Official Report, looking for genuine reductions which improve animal columns 174-75. welfare and will avoid measures which simply drive work abroad to countries where lower standards or less stringent testing guidelines may apply. HOME DEPARTMENT Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what research the Government has Animal Experiments (a) commissioned and (b) evaluated on the use of beagles in scientific research. [60448] Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what representations she has received on Lynne Featherstone: The Government have not the limitation of information which public authorities commissioned specific research on the use of beagles in are required to disclose about animal experiments; and scientific research. Evaluation of the use of beagles in what her policy is on the introduction of any such scientific research is undertaken on a case by case basis. limitation. [59076] In order to be licensed under the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Act 1986, a project must be for one of the Lynne Featherstone: A significant amount of information “permissible purposes” listed in section 5(3) of the Act. is already published about the use of animals in scientific These include: the prevention (whether by the testing of procedures in publications such as the ‘Statistics of any product or otherwise) or the diagnosis or treatment Scientific Procedures on Living Animals Great Britain’ of disease, ill-health or abnormality, or their effects, in published annually, on the Home Office website and in man, animals or plants; the assessment, detection, regulation scientific papers published by those carrying out the or modification of physiological conditions in man, research. animals or plants; and the advancement of knowledge Where relevant, decisions on requests for disclosure in biological or behavioural sciences. All research using of other information are made taking account of the beagles would have had to satisfy one or more of these requirements of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. requirements. In addition, under section 24 of the Animals (Scientific Under the terms of the Animals (Scientific Procedures) Procedures) Act 1986, Home Office Ministers and officials Act 1986 dogs, together with some other species, are are prohibited from disclosing confidential information given special protection and can only be used where relating to the use of animals in scientific procedures animals of no other species are suitable. other than in the discharge of their functions under the 1986 Act. Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether her Department has (a) Section 24 creates a criminal offence and provides a received and (b) reviewed any evidence in support of maximum punishment of two years imprisonment and an increase in the breeding of beagles for experimental a fine for unauthorised disclosure of information. purposes. [60451] I have received no representations about the application of the Freedom of Information Act to requests for Lynne Featherstone: The Government have not received information about animal experiments. Since June 2010 or reviewed any evidence in support of an increase in I have received 35 letters from individuals and organisations the breeding of beagles for experimental purposes. relating to section 24, the majority seeking its repeal. Asylum: Expenditure As part of a public consultation on the options for transposition of European directive 2010/63/EU, launched Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for on 13 June 2011, I am seeking views on how section 24 the Home Department what the annual cost to the might be amended to provide flexibility in responding public purse was of (a) the Asylum Support System to requests for information while continuing to protect and (b) her Department’s administration costs proprietary rights and confidential information. associated with asylum in each year since 1997-98. [60577] Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department with reference to paragraph 4 of Damian Green [holding answer 17 June 2011]: The page 18 of the coalition agreement, what steps the annual costs to the public purse for the Asylum Support Government has taken to reduce the use of animals in System since 1999-2000 are given in Annex A. Figures scientific research. [60447] for 1997-98 and 1998-99 are not available as the UK Border Agency was not responsible for meeting these Lynne Featherstone: We are currently developing a costs prior to 1999-2000. strategy to deliver the coalition commitment to work to It is not possible to provide the cost of administration reduce the use of animals in scientific procedures and of the system without incurring disproportionate cost.

Annex A: Historic asylum costs £ million 1999- Support costs 2000 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11

Initial — — — 107 96 67 37 31 26 19 15 9 Accommodation1 Dispersed — 115 439 319 344 315 183 155 181 128 123 100 Accommodation1 5W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 6W

Annex A: Historic asylum costs £ million 1999- Support costs 2000 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11

Cash Support1 — — — 160 143 129 103 100 99 69 68 56 Asylum Seeker ———664435644 Travel Costs1 Local 537 497 407 296 242 138 69 4 1 — — — Authorities1 DSS/DWP1 —56893615——————— S4 Costs2 ———— 4175971739110256 UASC3 — 82 111 143 161 117 151 144 85 142 151 115 Leaving Care3 —————————311120 Sub-total Support 537 750 1,046 1,067 1,011 787 606 508 470 486 474 359 Costs Grants and Other —2317252437201615334042 Special Projects4 Total Asylum 537 773 1,063 1,092 1,035 824 626 624 485 519 514 402 Payments5 1 Pre 2000 Payments were made to DSS/DWP for asylum seekers in receipt of support. Post 2000 new applicants were supported directly by UKBA. 2 Support to failed asylum seekers who would otherwise be destitute end who, face a legitimate barrier to return, can not travel because of a medical condition, or who are judicially reviewing the decision not to grant asylum (ECHR, case law). Also includes support to those who are taking steps to leave and who would otherwise be destitute, but who would not otherwise qualify for support. 3 Unaccompanied asylum seeking children, are the responsibility of the local authority in whose geographical area they seek help. However, UKBA provides a grant to assist LA’s meet the costs of supporting UASC’s together with a grant to assist local authorities to meet the costs of supporting previous UASC who turn 18 and are leaving care. 4 Grants to voluntary sector organisations to support asylum seekers through the application and dispersal. From 2009-10 grants also include Gateway grants to DWP (and some voluntary organisations) for targeted refugee programmes and Integration services provided by voluntary sector to support integration of those granted leave to remain in UK. 5 All figures based on audited accounts. Figures for 2010-11 are unaudited and subject to change.

Criminal Records: Voluntary Work While we recognise that this will mean additional journey times and expense for some customers, only 5% of passport applicants are required to attend an interview Bill Esterson: To ask the Secretary of State for the and this is a once in a lifetime event. The changes IPS is Home Department what assessment she has made of making are to remove excess capacity from the business. the effects on voluntary sector organisations of the voluntary disclosure of Criminal Records Bureau checks. [60481] Incentives

Lynne Featherstone: There are no mandatory Mark Durkan: To ask the Secretary of State for the requirements for people working with vulnerable groups Home Department whether bonus payments are made on behalf of a voluntary organisation to obtain a to UK Border Agency staff for performance in respect Criminal Records Bureau (CRB) certificate. Volunteers of cash recovery cases undertaken under the provisions who regularly work with children or vulnerable adults of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. [60141] are eligible for an enhanced CRB certificate but it is the volunteer manager’s decision whether to request a check, Damian Green: Bonus payments in the UK Border after they have carried out a risk assessment for the role. Agency (UKBA) are dependent on staff exceeding The Government recognises the important contribution performance expectations. volunteers make to society and CRB checks for volunteers Performance awards are not made to UKBA staff are issued free of charge. specifically for performance in relation to cash recovery cases undertaken under the provisions of the proceeds of Crime Act (POCA) 2002. Identity and Passport Service: Aberdeen Assessment of performance is typically based on a number of the following criteria: Dame Anne Begg: To ask the Secretary of State for assessment of objectives—what was delivered and how; the Home Department whether her Department has assessment of the skills required for the role; considered the merits of putting in place additional overall assessment of achievement against the job description, passport interview services in Aberdeen before the reflecting the level of performance over the whole appraisal summer holiday period. [59682] year; innovation—actions or good ideas which improve efficiency or Damian Green: The interview office in Aberdeen service delivery. formally closed to the public on 11 June 2011. In future, customers in the Aberdeen area will be able to access Overseas Workers interviews in Edinburgh, Dundee and Inverness. There is a full-time interview office in Edinburgh and Alison McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for there will be flexible teams operating at Dundee and the Home Department what discussions she has had Inverness for two or three days per week from late July. with Ministerial colleagues on the consultation document The interview offices at Dundee and Inverness will on Employment Related Settlement, Tier 5 and Overseas remain open to the public until 23 July. Domestic Workers. [60734] 7W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 8W

Damian Green: The content of the consultation document Stalking: Crime Prevention was agreed collectively by interested Ministers prior to publication. The UK Border Agency continues to discuss Lisa Nandy: To ask the Secretary of State for the the proposals with other Government Departments. Home Department if she will bring forward legislative proposals to give police in England and Wales additional Police: Bureaucracy powers to seize electronic evidence from individuals being investigated for stalking or harassment. [59937] David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what recent discussions she has had Lynne Featherstone: We are working with the Police on proposals to provide greater powers to policy community and the Crown Prosecution Service to review the impact support officers; and if she will make a statement. of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. We are [60208] also working with the police and others to examine the need for additional police powers to enable them to Nick Herbert: The Government recognise and value investigate these offences effectively. the role that police community support officers (PCSOs) play in neighbourhood policing and have committed to supporting neighbourhood policing teams and PCSOs through the dedicated neighbourhood policing fund WOMEN AND EQUALITIES until 2012-13. After this, it will be for the directly elected police and crime commissioners, together with Departmental Regulation their chief constables, to determine local staff resourcing and allocation. Gordon Banks: To ask the Minister for Women and PCSOs have 20 standard powers and a range of Equalities (1) what the name is of each regulatory discretionary additional powers which may be granted measure revoked by the Government Equalities Office by the local chief constable should he or she believe that between 1 March and 31 May 2011; and what estimate they are required. There are no current plans to extend she has made of the potential annual saving to those these powers. affected by each revocation; [60502] (2) what regulations the Government Equalities Scotland office introduced between 1 March 2011 and 31 May 2011; and what the estimated costs of implementation Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for the were for those affected in each case. [60324] Home Department what proportion of contracts issued by (a) her Department and (b) agencies for Lynne Featherstone: This Government are committed which she is responsible were awarded to small and to reducing regulatory burdens. Between 1 March 2011 medium-sized enterprises in (i) Scotland, (ii) South and 31 May 2011 the Government Equalities Office Lanarkshire and (iii) Rutherglen and Hamilton West repealed the three separate public sector equality duties constituency in the latest period for which figures are on race, disability and gender and supporting regulations available. [60196] imposing specific duties for each, with different timescales and reporting requirements. On 5 April 2011 the Damian Green: The Home Department awarded two Government brought into force the new single Equality contracts to small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) Duty contained in the Equality Act 2010. This brought in Scotland in 2006 and 2008, neither of which were in together the previous equality duties and extended to South Lanarkshire or Rutherglen and Hamilton West cover age, gender reassignment in full, religion or belief constituency. Both of these contracts expired in 2009. and sexual orientation. In recognition of the important contribution all small On 6 April the Government Equalities Office brought to medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) make to the economy, into force the positive action provisions contained in the Home Department has published its plans to meet section 159 of the Equality Act 2010. These measures the Government’s commitment to allow SMEs to compete are voluntary and do not impose any regulatory burden. more fairly for governmental contracts on its commercial The following table provides information on the website: legislation and codes of practice repealed and introduced http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/procurement/ between 1 March and 31 May 2011. The Department is continuing with further work to We estimate replacing the three previous public sector evaluate its procurement activity to establish areas of equality duties with the new Equality Duty and the goods and services which can be delivered by SMEs. underlying specific duties (which will be laid before This evaluation will inform our procurement approach Parliament shortly) will result in a net benefit to the and ensure we maximise opportunities for such enterprises. public sector of between £4 million and £18 million (mid-point estimate £11 million) in year one, and a net Sexual Offences: Registration benefit of between £14 million and £25 million (mid-point estimate £19 million) from year two onwards compared Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for the to the cost of complying with the three separate duties. Home Department what recent estimate she has made Over a 10-year period the net benefit is expected to be in of the number of non-registered sex offenders. [60891] the region of around £110 million to £205 million (net present value terms) compared to the cost of the previous Lynne Featherstone: The data are not collected in the duties. format requested and could be collated only at There are no implementation costs relating to the disproportionate cost. positive action measures as these are voluntary. 9W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 10W

Primary legislation repealed between 1 March 2011 and 31 May 2011 Regulation Repealed sections 76A to 76C of the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 (and section 81 of that Act so far as relating to those sections); 5 April 2011 sections 71 to 71B of, and Schedule 1A to, the Race Relations Act 1976 5 April 2011 sections 17(9), 18 and 19(10) of the Local Government Act 1988 5 April 2011 sections 49A to 49D of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 5 April 2011 section 404 of the Greater London Authority Act 1999 5 April 2011 sections 84 and 85 of the Equality Act 2006 5 April 2011

As a result of the above sections being repealed the following measures in subordinate legislation were revoked: the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 (Public Authorities) (Statutory Duties) Order 2006 (SI 2006/2930) 5 April 2011 the Sex Discrimination Act 1975 (Public Authorities) (Statutory Duties) (Scotland) Order 2007 (SSI 2007/32) 5 April 2011 the Race Relations Act 1976 (General Statutory Duty) Order 2001 (SI 2001/3457) 5 April 2011 the Race Relations Act 1976 (Statutory Duties) Order 2001 (SI 2001/3458) 5 April 2011 the Race Relations Act 1976 (Statutory Duties) (Scotland) Order 2002 (SSI 2002/62) 5 April 2011 the Race Relations Act 1976 (Statutory Duties) Order 2003 (SI 2003/3006) 5 April 2011 the Race Relations Act 1976 (General Statutory Duty) Order 2003 (SI 2003/3007) 5 April 2011 the Race Relations Act 1976 (Statutory Duties) Order 2004 (SI 2004/3125) 5 April 2011 the Race Relations Act 1976 (General Statutory Duty) Order 2004 (SI 2004/3127) 5 April 2011 the Race Relations Act 1976 (General Statutory Duty) Order 2006 (SI 2006/2470) 5 April 2011 the Race Relations Act 1976 (Statutory Duties) Order 2006 (SI 2006/2471) 5 April 2011 the Disability Discrimination (Public Authorities) (Statutory Duties) Regulations 2005 (SI 2005/2966) 5 April 2011 the Disability Discrimination (Public Authorities) (Statutory Duties) (Scotland) Regulations 2005 (SSI 2005/565) 5 April 2011 the Disability Discrimination (Public Authorities) (Statutory Duties) (Amendment) Regulations 2007 (SI 2007/618) 5 April 2011 the Disability Discrimination (Public Authorities) (Statutory Duties) (Amendment) Regulations 2008 (SI 2008/641) 5 April 2011

Regulatory measures introduced between 1 March 2011 and 31 May 2011 Regulation Introduced section 149 of the Equality Act 2010 5 April 2011 section 159 of the Equality Act 2010—positive action provisions relating to recruitment and promotion 6 April 2011

Codes of practice repealed between 1 March 2011 and 31 May 2011 Code of practice Repealed the 1985 code of practice for the elimination of discrimination on the grounds of sex and marriage and the promotion of equality of 6 April 2011 opportunity in employment the 2003 Code of Practice on Equal Pay 6 April 2011 the 2004 Disability Discrimination Act 1995 Code of Practice on Employment and Occupation 6 April 2011 the 2006 revised Code of Practice on Racial Equality in Employment 6 April 2011 the 2006 Disability Discrimination Act 1995 Code of Practice on Rights of Access: services to the public, public authority functions, private 6 April 2011 clubs and premises

Codes of practice introduced between 1 March 2011 and 31 May 2011 Code of practice Introduced the Equality Act 2010 Code of Practice Services Public Functions and Associations 6 April 2011 the Equality Act 2010 Code of Practice on Employment 6 April 2011 the Equality Act 2010 Code of Practice Equal Pay 6 April 2011

Equalities and Human Rights Commission Lynne Featherstone [holding answer 15 June 2011]: The figures requested are as follows: Valerie Vaz: To ask the Minister for Women and (a) The total number of staff employed by Government Equalities what recent assessment she has made of the Equalities Office as at 1 June 2011 was 108.2 full-time equivalents effects of the proposed closures of regional offices of (FTE). the Equalities and Human Rights Commission. [60768] (b) The total number of staff employed by the Equality and Human Rights Commission as at 13 June 2011 was 408 FTE. Lynne Featherstone: The Equality and Human Rights Commission (the Commission) is an arm’s length body. As an arm’s length body, decisions on the closure of CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT any of its office premises are operational ones which it is for the Commission to make. Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme

Government Equalities Office: Manpower Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport if he will estimate Mr Raab: To ask the Minister for Women and Equalities the effects of the ending of tax relief on VAT for organ how many staff (a) the Government Equalities Office repairs on levels of expenditure from the Listed Places and (b) the Equality and Human Rights Commission of Worship grant scheme in (a) 2010-11 and (b) each employ. [59772] of the next four years. [58447] 11W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 12W

John Penrose: The effect of removing eligibility of the number of young people taking part in competitive organ repairs, bells, clocks and pews from the Listed sport through the Taking Part Survey, and Sport England Places of Worship Grant Scheme will be to return it to will continue to measure participation in community its original scope before it was widened to include these sport through the Active People Survey. Both ‘Places items in 2006. We estimate that the overall effect on People Play’, the Government’s sports legacy from London money claimed under the scheme will be to reduce it 2012, and the School Games will be evaluated to measure closer to the available budget of £12 million. We have the impact. not made an individual estimate of the specific impact on organ repairs, but it is worth noting that they took Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, place continuously and successfully before being included Olympics, Media and Sport what his policy is on in the scheme in 2006, so we do not expect a serious including all parts of the UK in preparatory events for permanent reduction. the London 2012 Olympics. [60020]

Local Broadcasting Hugh Robertson: The Nations and Regions Group, established by the Government Olympic Executive (GOE) Caroline Dinenage: To ask the Secretary of State for and the London 2012 Organising Committee (LOCOG), Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what recent discussions works directly with each UK nation and region to help he has had with the BBC Trust on the maintenance of them realise and maximise the benefits from the economic, BBC provision of local television and radio. [59770] sporting and cultural opportunities offered by the games. One of the most significant events taking place before Mr Vaizey: There have been no recent discussions the beginning of the games is the Olympic Torch Relay. with the BBC Trust on the maintenance of the BBC’s The Olympic Flame will travel to within an hour of existing provision of local television and radio. 95% of people in the UK, Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey during the 70-day Olympic Torch Relay. On Olympic Games 2012 18 May LOCOG announced the 66 evening celebrations and six of the island visits and will now proceed with Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, the detailed planning of the route for the morning and Olympics, Media and Sport what plans his Department afternoons of each day. This is being done in consultation has for the future of the Olympic legacy in all parts of with stakeholders across the UK in every region. The the UK after 2012. [60017] route will be finalised and announced later this year, LOCOG recently published a booklet on London Hugh Robertson: The Government published their 2012 which provides a summary of projects and events plans for the legacy from the 2012 Olympic and Paralympic that have taken place across the UK. This can be found Games in December 2010 focusing on four key areas: at the following link: Harnessing the United Kingdom’s passion for sport to increase http://www.london2012.com/publications/london-2012- grass roots participation, particularly by young people—and across-the-uk.php to encourage the whole population to be more physically active; In addition, the London 2012 cultural, educational and sporting projects the Inspire Programme, the Get Exploiting to the full opportunities for economic growth offered by hosting the Games; Set Network and the School Games are inclusive of the whole of the UK. Promoting community engagement and achieving participation across all groups in society through the Games; and Tourism Ensuring that the Olympic Park can be developed after the Games as one of the principle drivers of regeneration in east London. Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what steps he is taking to This plan was produced by the UK Government. help regions increase the size of their tourist economy. However the Games’ legacy is being driven across the [60018] UK by a rich variety of organisations, communities and individuals. These include the Nations and Regions John Penrose: The Government’s plans for promoting Group established by the Government and the London the growth of the visitor economy are set out in detail in Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic the paper, “Government Tourism Policy” published in Games (LOCOG) to ensure UK-wide engagement and March 2011, and available at: to make the most of the opportunities London 2012 brings now, and to maximise the potential benefits that http://www.culture.gov.uk/publications/7896.aspx will be realised locally post Games. This group works Over the next four years VisitBritain will be running directly with representatives from each of the nations the “You’re Invited” programme, which will capitalise and English regions to realise the sporting, economic, on the international interest in the recent Royal Wedding, and cultural benefits of the 2012 Games. as well as next year’s Diamond Jubilee and Olympic and Paralympic Games, and showcase Britain to the Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, world. The programme aims to attract 4 million extra Olympics, Media and Sport what recent assessment he visitors, spending £2 billion in the UK economy, which has made of the potential effect of the London 2012 will support businesses, jobs and growth. The programme Olympics on levels of participation in sport. [60019] is backed by a £100 million marketing fund, match funded by the public and private sectors. Hugh Robertson: No recent assessment has been made VisitEngland is working closely with local areas and of the potential effect of London 2012 on levels of destinations, in line with Government’s localism agenda, participation in sport. However, we will be measuring to grow the value of local tourism economies. This is 13W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 14W co-ordinated through the National Strategic Framework The Protection of Vulnerable Groups (Scotland) Act 2007 for Tourism,which includes an action programme developed (Consequential Modifications) Order 2011. in consultation with the tourism sector. VisitEngland is There were no implementation costs for these orders. currently working with local areas on a campaign to deliver economic growth from the domestic market, Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for and to support employment and job creation. “The Scotland what the name is of each regulatory measure time to be in England” will maximise the impact of the revoked by his Department between 1 March and 31 unique events of 2012, including the Queen’s Diamond May 2011; and what estimate he has made of the Jubilee and the Olympic and Paralympic Games, helping potential annual saving to those affected by each revocation. to spread the benefits of the games outside London and [60486] maintain a legacy of domestic tourism growth. The campaign is the subject of a bid to the second round of David Mundell: Between 1 March 2011 and 31 May the Regional Growth Fund. 2011 the Scotland Office revoked the following regulations: Tourism policy seeks to help improve the sector’s The Scottish Parliament (Constituency Returning Officers) productivity and competitiveness, in particular to Order 2011; address the burden of regulation affecting the industry. The Scottish Parliament (Regional Returning Officers) Order The Government’s Red Tape Challenge focused on 2011; and the hospitality sector in May, inviting the industry and The Scottish Parliament (Returning Officers’ Charges) Order the public to identify regulations holding back the industry 2011. and stifling growth. Alongside this, the Government are Due to the nature of these elections Orders there are setting up an industry task force, led by senior industry no identifiable savings. figures, to identify rules, regulations and inspections impeding the sector, and which might be cut, modified EU Law or abolished.

Mr Weir: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Olympics, Media and Sport whether he has had discussions Scotland for what European directives in force on with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the effects of 1 April 2010 his Department is responsible; and what the competitiveness of the UK tourism sector of the European directives for which his Department is recent decision of the Irish Government to reduce the responsible have come into force since 1 April 2010. rate of value added tax on services related to tourism to [60699] 9%; and if he will make a statement. [60814] David Mundell: The Scotland Office was not responsible John Penrose: The Secretary of State for Culture, for any European directives in force on 1 April 2010, Olympics, Media and Sport, my right hon. Friend the and is not responsible for any that have come into force Member for South West Surrey (Mr Hunt), speaks since 1 April 2010. regularly to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), on a wide variety of topics. VAT rates in Ireland are a matter for the Irish Government rather than one on which we ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS should comment, but customers choose their holidays on a wide variety of factors including the overall value Departmental Vacancies for money of the various places they are considering visiting, rather than focusing solely on the rate of VAT. The Government’s overall policy on tourism was made Mike Freer: To ask the Secretary of State for clear in the Government’s Tourism Policy, which was Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what the staff published in March 2011. vacancy rate in her Department was in 2010-11; and what vacancy rate has been assumed in her Department’s budget for 2011-12. [51389]

SCOTLAND Richard Benyon: The vacancy rate in the Department between 1 April 2010 and 31 March 2011 was 342.5 Departmental Regulation which is 3.5% of the total headcount of DEFRA and its executive agencies. Gordon Banks: To ask the Secretary of State for Scotland what regulations his Department introduced For 2011-12, the Department manages its budget and between 1 March 2011 and 31 May 2011; and what the resources by reviewing on a monthly and quarterly estimated costs of implementation were for those affected basis work force forecasts and financial targets to allow in each case. [60327] the Department to reallocate resources and funding in year to ensure we live within our means and meet our David Mundell: Between 1 March 2011 and 31 May strategic objectives. 2011 the Scotland Office introduced the following regulations: Motor Sports: Noise The Scottish Parliament (Constituency Returning Officers) Order 2011; Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, The Scottish Parliament (Regional Returning Officers) Order 2011; Food and Rural Affairs what representations she has The Scottish Parliament (Returning Officers’ Charges) Order received on noise nuisance issues relating to motocross 2011; and sites. [60284] 15W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 16W

Richard Benyon: I have not received any representations INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY regarding noise nuisance relating to motocross sites. STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE Any complaints regarding potential noise nuisance should be made to the relevant local authority. Under the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Environment Protection Act 1990, local authorities have Parliamentary Standards Authority a duty to take such steps as are reasonably practicable to investigate any complaint of a statutory nuisance Adam Afriyie: To ask the hon. Member for Broxbourne, made by a person living within their areas. Where a representing the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent local authority is satisfied of the existence, or of the Parliamentary Standards Authority, what evidence the likely occurrence or recurrence of a statutory nuisance, Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary it must generally serve an abatement notice. Standards Authority (IPSA) has received from IPSA to support the statement by the Authority that it saved the public purse £18 million in its first 10 months of operation. Recycling: Greater London [60177]

Mr Offord: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Charles Walker: Paragraph 9 and Annex A of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will take Explanatory Note on the Independent Parliamentary steps to introduce greater co-ordination between waste Standards Authority’s 2011-12 draft Estimate, submitted authorities in London with regard to the recycling to the Committee by IPSA, state that IPSA have forecast policies of their member authorities. [59687] an under-spend of around £30 million against their Estimate, which is about £18 million less than the final year of the previous House of Commons scheme. Richard Benyon: The Government have made clear The Explanatory Note and other documents relating that it is for individual local authorities to decide on the to the draft Estimate are available on the Committee’s collection and recycling policies which are most suitable website at: for their customers and fitting for their local circumstances. However, DEFRA supports the London Waste and http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201012/ Recycling Board (LWARB), including its work with the cmselect/spcomipsa/writev/contents.htm London Community Resource Network, its recently established subsidiary London Reuse Limited, and London boroughs to look at developing shared collection, storage and distribution facilities that can be accessed by reuse TRANSPORT projects across London. LWARB is also assessing the feasibility of developing a London-wide web portal A1: East of England that provides access to reuse and recycling options for both consumers and small and medium-sized enterprises Oliver Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for (SMEs). Transport if he will take steps to ensure the installation of separated junctions at the main intersections and roundabouts on the A1 between Alconbury and the Rivers A1(M) north of Baldock. [60388]

Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Penning: The Secretary of State announced on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what discussions 26 October 2010 the Department’s plans for funding she has had with water companies on (a) their statutory road improvements on the strategic road network for duties to the environment and (b) preserving river and the spending review period, to the end of 2014-15. stream flows during the summer months. [60131] Proposals for junction improvements on the A1 between Alconbury and the A1(M) north of Baldock have not been included among the schemes identified, and there Richard Benyon [holding answer 16 June 2011]: DEFRA are therefore no plans to develop such a proposal at this has a programme of work to restore sustainable abstraction time. where abstraction licences granted historically do not adequately protect the environment. Water companies are undertaking investigations as part of their environmental Bicycles responsibilities where their abstractions may be involved. Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for The Environment Agency sets conditions on abstraction Transport what responses his Department received to licences to protect summer river and stream flows. its consultation on electrically-assisted pedal cycles; The Natural Environment White Paper, which was and whether he plans to issue any regulations as a published on 7 June, announced that we intend to result of the consultation. [60817] develop measures to address unsustainable abstraction more efficiently, and therefore increase protection of Mike Penning: The Department for Transport received river and stream flows in the summer months. We are 79 responses to the Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle currently developing these measures to be included in (EAPC) consultation and the results have been analysed. the Water White Paper, which is due to be published by Regulations pertaining to EAPC are also subject to the December. As part of this, officials are in discussion current ‘Red Tape Challenge’, and comments submitted with a number of stakeholders, including the water as part of this initiative will also be considered before companies. the Department publishes a statement on next steps. 17W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 18W

Bus Services Norman Baker: This scheme is currently in the Department for Transport’s Development Pool of local Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for major transport schemes. We have invited Lincolnshire Transport what the minimum statutory requirement is county council to submit a “best and final funding bid” for the provision of (a) evening and (b) Sunday bus to the Department by 9 September. We aim to announce services in local areas in England. [59515] decisions in December this year on which schemes have been successful. Norman Baker: There is no specific statutory requirement for the provision of evening and Sunday bus services in East Coast Railway Line: Contracts local areas of England. 78% of local bus services are provided on a commercial Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for basis by private operators and the routes and times that Transport what estimate he has made of the (a) costs they run are a matter for the operator concerned. and (b) savings of the outsourcing to locations outside the UK of East Coast Main Line’s (i) customer contact There is a duty in the Transport Act 1985: centre and associated services, (ii) telesales, (iii) group “to secure the provision of such public passenger transport travel, (iv) assisted travel and business travel, (v) ticket services as the council considers it appropriate to secure to meet fulfilment, (vi) web support and (vii) customer relations any public transport requirements within the county which would work. [59004] in their view not be met apart from any action taken by them for that purpose...” Norman Baker [holding answer 10 June 2011]: The It is therefore a decision for local councils to decide outsourcing of services is an operational matter for what further services, if any, they should be providing. East Coast. The Department has had no involvement in Bus Services: Fees and Charges these decisions. High Speed 2 Railway Line Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether he has powers to require bus Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport companies which cancel routes and services to reduce how many households (a) nationally, (b) in Warwickshire the price of season tickets. [59516] and (c) in North Warwickshire constituency have received Norman Baker: In the deregulated bus market in assistance from the HS2 Exceptional Hardship Scheme; England outside London, bus fares and routes are a and what the total monetary value is of compensation matter for commercial operators of local services, not allocated in each case. [59494] the Secretary of State. London fares and timetables are Mr Philip Hammond: The information is as follows: a matter for the Mayor. Non-commercial services supported by local transport authorities are a matter for them. (a) 38 applications have been accepted nationally. The total value of 34 of these properties, calculated by the The Department for Transport is considering possible sum of formal offers made to applicants, is £19,920,000. remedies to address the Competition Commission’s HS2 Ltd is currently awaiting valuations on the other initial findings from its inquiry into the local bus market four properties that have been accepted. that bus fares, tickets and frequencies may be used to deter new entrants from engaging in competition with (b) 11 applications have been accepted from Warwickshire. incumbent operators. The total value of nine of these properties, calculated by the sum of formal offers made to applicants, is In the meantime, local transport authorities currently £5,152,500. HS2 Ltd is currently awaiting valuations on have powers to introduce maximum fares under a Quality the other two properties that have been accepted in Partnership Scheme, but not to reduce fares. Warwickshire. Bus Services: Finance (c) Two applications have been accepted from North Warwickshire constituency. One property has been Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for purchased and the other is currently awaiting valuation. Transport how many small and medium-sized bus I am not able to release the value of the purchased operators have ceased to trade in 2011 to date. [58261] property as this relates to a single application, and constitutes personal data as part of that application Mike Penning: The number of surrendered licences in which could potentially identify the owner as an EHS 2011 by PSV operators1 is 98. Of these, 96 operators applicant. When more than one valuation is available in had held licences for 20 vehicles or less. The number of this area I will be content to provide the sum total. licences surrendered does not necessary mean operators who have ceased to trade as they may hold licences in Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport other geographical areas. how many agricultural units and commercial properties 1 PSV operators numbers will also include limousine operators, as with a rateable value not exceeding £34,800 have applied well as hotel and taxi operators who require a licence to operate a for compensation under the HS2 Exceptional Hardship mini-bus. Scheme; and if he will make a statement. [59514]

Bypasses: Lincoln Mr Philip Hammond: Applications to the Exceptional Hardship Scheme have been received from: Stephen Phillips: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 agricultural unit Transport what recent progress his Department has 3 combined residential/agricultural units made on the proposal for the construction of a bypass 3 combined residential/commercial properties with a rateable in Lincoln. [59441] value not exceeding £34,800. 19W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 20W

Invalid Vehicles: Regulation However, we have not received any such proposals, and are not bringing forward any tolled schemes at Mr Ivan Lewis: To ask the Secretary of State for present. Transport when he expects to announce the results of his Department’s consultation on proposed changes to Rolling Stock legislation governing powered mobility scooters and powered wheelchairs. [59452] Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport (1) what estimate he has made of the average Norman Baker [holding answer 13 June 2011]: The cost of operating (a) hybrid and (b) electric trains findings from the consultation are currently being over electrified tracks; [58263] considered. I will be making an announcement as soon (2) what estimate he has made of the average cost of as practicable. operation and maintenance of (a) a hybrid and (b) an electric train. [58265] Motor Vehicles: Sales Mrs Villiers: In the recent appraisal of the Intercity Mr Leech: To ask the Secretary of State for Express Programme, the average cost per mile of Transport what estimate his Department has made of maintenance and operations of a bi-mode and electric the number of used car sales in each year since 2005. set were assumed to be as follows: [60874] £ Mike Penning: The Department for Transport estimates Variable track that there were 7.65 million transfers of used cars Maintenance Fuel access charge during 2010. Bi-mode Some of these transfers will not have been through a When under 2.74 1.72 1.13 sale of the vehicle. The transfer may be as a result of a diesel power gift, inheritance or trader registering the car to their When under 1.78 1.34 1— business after holding it for longer than three months. electric power Information about what type of transfer took place is not held on the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency Electric 1.78 1.32 1.03 (DVLA) database. 1 Indicates brace. The estimate for 2010 was based on the Vehicle The costs in the table are based on five-car short sets, Identification Number (VIN) which enables changes in and are given at 2009-10 prices. the ownership of a vehicle to be tracked over time. A less accurate method was used to produce a broad estimate for 2009, of 6.44 million transfers, based on matching the registration marks of vehicles. Estimates FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE have not been produced for years prior to 2009, and to do so would incur disproportionate cost. BRIC Countries Motorways: Repairs and Maintenance Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the Oliver Heald: To ask the Secretary of State for answer of 7 June 2011, Official Report, column 202W, Transport if he will assess the merits of widening the on the BRIC summit, if he will place in the Library a A1(M) between Welwyn and Stevenage; and if he will copy of each of his Department’s documents relevant make a statement. [60752] to the Emerging Powers Initiative. [60071]

Mike Penning: The Secretary of State for Transport Mr Hague: The Emerging Powers Sub-Committee of announced on 26 October 2010 the Department’s plans the National Security Council, which I chair, oversees for funding improvements on the strategic road network the Government’s collective effort towards elevating for the spending review period, to the end of 2014-15. our relations with the emerging powers. Papers prepared The Department will continue to work on 18 schemes for the Sub-Committee are confidential. for potential construction in future spending review periods. Diplomatic Service: Internet Widening of the A1(M) between Welwyn and Stevenage was not among the schemes identified, and the Department Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State therefore has no plans to examine such a proposal at for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the this time. answer of 7 June 2011, Official Report, column 206W, on the Diplomatic Service: internet, how many online Roads: Tolls followers his Department has of each nationality. [60070] Sajid Javid: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether he has plans to promote the construction of Mr Hague: It is the social media platforms the Foreign further toll roads. [54215] and Commonwealth Office (FCO) uses and not FCO itself which hold information user data. We therefore Mike Penning: We are happy to consider proposals cannot tell nationality of users, and we cannot make for the construction of new roads funded by tolls. assumptions about their nationality from the geographical 21W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 22W location. Full lists of the major social media presences Libya: Freezing Orders of embassies and posts around the world can be found on: Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State www.FCO.gov.uk for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps the As set out in my answer of 7 June 2011, Official Report, international community is taking to deprive the column 206W, we have over 300,000 followers in total. Gaddafi government in Libya of access to funds. [56314] Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to Mr Hague: The UK has taken the lead in international the answer of 7 June 2011, Official Report, column efforts to impose and implement financial sanctions on 206W, on the Diplomatic Service: internet, in which the Qadhafi regime. We and our EU partners have countries those embassies and missions which blog in implemented the sanctions elements of UN Security local languages are located. [60072] Council Resolutions 1970 and 1973 through EU Regulations 204, 233, 272, 288, 296 and 360, which have Mr Hague: There are currently 56 active bloggers on steadily extended and updated the range of regime-linked the Foreign and Commonwealth Office’s (FCO) roster, individuals and entities subject to asset freezes. On blogging on the FCO website. This figure is liable to 11 March 2011 the UN also established a Sanctions constant change as staff move roles within the Department. Committee to monitor the implementation of UN Security There are 35 embassies and posts with a blog, and there Council Resolutions 1970, chaired by Portugal. We are are blogs currently ‘live’ on the FCO site in seven offering guidance and support to the Sanctions Committee. different languages: Arabic, Romanian, Ukrainian, Spanish, The targeted sanctions imposed under these UN Brazilian Portuguese, Korean and Japanese. A full list Resolutions have squeezed the regime financially, making of the blogs hosted on the FCO’s platform can, again, it harder for Colonel Qadhafi and his associates to fuel be found on the FCO website. the war further. Libya: Overseas Students Egypt: Politics and Government Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Kwasi Kwarteng: To ask the Secretary of State for for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he representations he has received on the effects of sanctions has received on the status of (a) secular political on Libya on Libyan students who are studying in the parties and (b) the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt. UK; and if he will make a statement. [59631] [59530] Alistair Burt [holding answer 15 June 2011]: Ihave Alistair Burt: A new law on the registration of political not received any representations on the effects of sanctions parties was passed on 28 March. In addition to the on Libya on Libyan students who are studying in the existing opposition parties, the Al Wasat Party, the UK although Foreign and Commonwealth Office officials Muslim Brotherhood’s new Freedom and Justice Party have been made aware of some delays in student payments. and another called the Nour party have officially been registered. A number of other new political parties The UN sanctions do not prevent Libyan state-sponsored continue to await authorisation of their official registration. students from receiving payments. These payments are administered by the Libyan People’s Bureau in London. The Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Where the necessary funds are in place but additional Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. authorisation is required because of the sanctions, HM Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) Treasury has issued licences to enable payments to be have pressed the Egyptian authorities to ensure an open made. Officials are in regular contact with all concerned and plural election process. to ensure that these payments continue. Libya: Diplomatic Relations Oil

Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what plans his Government maintains diplomatic relations with the Department has to address the challenges posed by government of Libya. [60048] peak oil. [60095]

Alistair Burt: We maintain diplomatic relations with Mr Bellingham: The Government do not subscribe to the Libyan Government. The Libyan People’s Bureau a particular view on when oil production is likely to (LPB) in London remains open and has been headed by peak. However, we recognise that there are significant a Charge d’Affaires following the expulsion of the challenges for investment in future oil production and Libyan ambassador on 30 April. We have used these that we have a role to play in working towards enhancing links to make clear to the regime that it must comply in energy supplies, and reducing demand for fossil fuels. full with UN Security Council resolutions 1970 and In partnership with other Government Departments, 1973, desist from further violence and withdraw military the Foreign and Commonwealth Office works forces to barracks. We have made it clear to the regime internationally to reduce barriers to investment in the that Qadhafi must go. We also use our contacts with the oil sector. Bilaterally and multilaterally, we promote the LPB to address issues concerning Libyan citizens resident regulatory norms and business climates that enhance in the UK. Apart from this we have kept our contacts confidence and investment. We also use our network of with the LPB to the very minimum. international posts to promote policies such as increased 23W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 24W energy efficiency, and the removal of fossil fuel subsidies, spoke on 14 June. Disappearances have not however to reduce demand for oil and transition to the low been limited to those with Tamil ethnicity—Sinhala carbon economy. journalists and opposition activists have also disappeared. The number of disappearances has fallen since the end Saudi Arabia: Armed forces of the war, but disappearances continue. Officials discuss the situation in Sri Lanka with Mr Bradshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for international partners, both within the Commonwealth Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions and more widely on a regular basis. Our high commission he has had with the government in Saudi Arabia on the in Colombo is also in touch with UN colleagues about (a) presence and (b) timetable for withdrawal of Saudi protection of civilians by UN agencies. military forces in Bahrain. [58989]

Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign and UN World Conference Against Racism Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), met the Saudi Foreign Minister, Prince Saud, during his visit to the UK on 22 Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign March 2011. Prince Saud confirmed that Gulf Co-operation and Commonwealth Affairs (1) if he will make it his Council (GCC) Peninsula Shield Forces would remain policy to withdraw from the UN Durban III anti-racism in Bahrain for as long as the Bahraini Government conference; what recent discussions he has had with (a) requested their presence. GCC forces had been legitimately his EU counterparts, (b) the US Administration and invited by the Bahraini Government to protect the (c) the Government of Israel on this issue; what recent country’s institutions. representations he has received (i) supporting and (ii) The Secretary of State has not discussed a timetable opposing a withdrawal from the conference; and if he for withdrawal of the GCC Peninsula Shield Forces will make a statement; [60656] from Bahrain with Prince Saud or the Bahraini (2) what reports he has received of the withdrawal of Government. governmental delegations from the UN Durban III Conference; and if he will make a statement. [60680] Serbia: Kosovo Mr Jeremy Browne: We voted against the resolution Mr MacShane: To ask the Secretary of State for at last year’s UN General Assembly which established a Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent reports High-Level meeting of the UN General Assembly in he has received on progress in talks between the governments September 2011 to commemorate the Tenth Anniversary of Serbia and Kosovo on a final settlement of outstanding of the Adoption of the Durban Declaration and disputes; and if he will make a statement. [60047] Programme of Action. The Government recognise that it is common practice for the UN to convene meetings Mr Lidington: There have been four meetings of the at regular periodic intervals to commemorate the adoption EU-facilitated Dialogue between Kosovo and Serbia. of its various social and human rights-related agendas. The most recent meeting took place on 17-18 May, in For these reasons, we were ready to agree to a limited Brussels. The Dialogue has so far discussed a number of commemorative event. However, in light of the lengthy important practical issues, including registry of civil and difficult 2009 Durban Review Conference, we felt and cadastral records, freedom of movement, the proposed size and scope of the 2011 event was telecommunications and energy. inappropriate. In forthcoming rounds of the Dialogue, I urge the We have not yet taken a final decision on our participation Governments of Kosovo and Serbia to engage in the 2011 high-level meeting. We will nonetheless constructively and flexibly with a view to reaching work closely with EU and colleagues from other countries agreements on these and all other relevant issues as in the run-up to the September event to try to ensure soon as possible. With political will on both sides, the that the meeting does not become another platform for Dialogue will build practical co-operation between Kosovo the kind of anti-Semitic rhetoric and behaviour that and Serbia that can improve the lives of citizens throughout was evident at the 2001 World Conference against Racism Kosovo, and move both countries in a more stable and to a lesser extent at the 2009 Durban Review manner towards EU accession. Conference. We will also work to make sure that the Sri Lanka: Missing Persons meeting addresses all forms of racism, including anti- Semitism, and that any outcome from the meeting includes a clear statement on the need to combat anti- Siobhain McDonagh: To ask the Secretary of State Semitism as part of wider efforts to tackle racism. for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent discussions he has had with (a) the government of Sri We are aware that the Government of the United Lanka, (b) the United Nations and (c) Commonwealth States of America has recently announced its decision countries on Commonwealth citizens with Tamil ethnicity not to participate in the September 2011 event. Their who have disappeared in Sri Lanka since the end of the announcement follows that of the Governments of Canada civil war in that country. [60958] and Israel. To date, we have not received reports that any other government has decided against participation. Alistair Burt: We have regularly raised our concern The Government’s participation and representation over the whereabouts of civilians unaccounted for since at the September meeting will remain under review in the end of the war and, in particular we have pressed for light of our efforts to achieve our objectives as set out the release of detainee lists. I raised this issue with the above. We will also engage with interested British non- Sri Lankan Foreign Minister most recently when we governmental organisations in reaching our final decision. 25W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 26W

INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT investing in GAVI offers very good value for money. I and my Cabinet colleagues, including the Prime Minister, Departmental Procurement have lobbied hard to bring other donors with us in stepping up our contributions to GAVI. Several donors Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for have more than doubled their contributions. Australia International Development what progress his Department has increased its contribution ten fold. Bill Gates has has made in encouraging small businesses to bid for added another $1 billion. Government contracts. [60191] We have brought in new donors over the last year (Korea, Japan, Brazil) and we will continue to encourage Mr Duncan: The Department for International others to come on board. Our efforts to date helped Development (DFID) launched a supplier portal at the GAVI raise $4.3 billion at their pledging conference on beginning of April 2011. The portal provides an electronic June 13. With this they will exceed their ambition of platform of easy single point access to allow our all vaccinating more than a quarter of a billion children suppliers, including small and medium-sized enterprises and saving four million lives. They will expand and (SMEs), to access opportunities to compete equally for accelerate their coverage, immunising more children DFID contracts. with more vaccines. DFID actively seeks opportunities to engage with SMEs through participation at events like the British Health Services: Overseas Aid Expertise seminars. These forums are an opportunity for SMEs to gain a greater understanding of DFID Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for business, engage with senior procurement officials and International Development what health programmes in openly discuss DFID procurement policies and procedures what countries his Department funded in the latest to identify further opportunities to improve. period for which figures are available. [59959] In April 2011, DFID developed and published on our external website a specific action plan to assist Mr O’Brien: Details of the Department for International SMEs. The document can be accessed on the DFID Development’s (DFID’s) projects are published in the website at: DFID Annual Report. The 2009 Report is available on http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Working-with-DFID/Procurement/ the DFID website at: Actions-to-Assist-Small-and-Medium-Enterprises/ http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-DFID/Finance-and- Within this document DFID commits to clearly stated performance/Annual-report/Annual-Report-2009/#contents key actions which we consider will encourage and reduce In addition, DFID undertook a Health Portfolio unnecessary barriers for SMEs to participate in competitive Review in 2009 which can be seen at: tenders. We are aiming to have all key actions implemented around October 2011. http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Media-Room/News-Stories/2010/ Health-portfolio-review-2009 Developing Countries: Vaccination Libya: Armed Conflict Mr Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if he will estimate the Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State total amount of funding which would be available to for International Development how many of his the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisation Department’s officials are working on post-conflict programme if other nation states matched his Department’s planning for Libya. [60078] contribution on a per head of population basis. [61060] Mr Andrew Mitchell: It is crucial that the international Mr Andrew Mitchell: The additional UK contribution system starts planning early to help the Libyan people to GAVI(Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisations) stabilise a future peace. The UK is also working closely represents c$21.5 per head of UK population over five with a range of partners on post-conflict planning, years—this equates to £2.62 per person per year. If all including NATO, the UN, the EU and the Libya Contact existing sovereign donors to GAVI committed the same Group. contribution per head of population, the total new contribution would be cUS$28 billion. The Department for International Development (DFID) is working with Whitehall partners in supporting and Mr Gregory Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State planning for post-conflict efforts in Libya. Within DFID for International Development if he will encourage there are a range of departments contributing to this governments of other nations to match his Department’s work; within the DFID Libya Unit there is a team of funding of the Global Alliance for Vaccines and five working on stabilisation and transition issues. Immunisation programme on a per head of population There are also seven UK personnel working on post- basis. [61061] conflict planning as part of the International Stabilisation Response Team. Stabilisation Response Teams (SRT) Mr Andrew Mitchell: Sovereign donors will make provide an integrated and bespoke approach to post-conflict their own choices about how they allocate their aid. We stabilisation, reconstruction and development. The SRT, do not match other donor contributions to other comprising UK and international staff, travelled to organisations on this basis; we exert choice in how we eastern Libya in late May to assess and set out a well allocate our aid. The Global Alliance for Vaccines and coordinated and effective response to the needs of the Immunisations (GAVI) came out very well in our root Libyan people by the international community in and branch review of multilateral aid so we know that coordination with the UN. 27W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 28W

Maldives: Overseas Aid WORK AND PENSIONS Carer’s Allowance Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development if he will include the Maldives in future non-direct grant programmes relating to (a) Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State climate change mitigation and (b) other issues. [59951] for Work and Pensions whether he plans to adjust the carer’s allowance in line with changes to the cost of Mr Duncan: The UK is one of 10 donors contributing living; and if he will make a statement. [60445] to the Scaling up Renewable Energy Programme which has allocated finance to the Maldives. We will consider Maria Miller: The rate of carer’s allowance is increased further support as appropriate. annually in line with the consumer price index (CPI). The CPI is the official, internationally recognised measure The Department has recently conducted a full review of consumer prices in the United Kingdom, and it is the of bilateral aid. Future bilateral support will be focused most recognisable measure of price inflation. The on 27 countries. The list excludes the Maldives. Government have no plans to change these arrangements. Overseas Aid The weekly rate for carer’s allowance was increased from £53.90 to £55.55 in April 2011. Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what funding classified as Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State official development assistance his Department has provided for Work and Pensions what recent representations he (a) in cash terms and (b) in per capita terms to each has received on increasing the level of the carer’s country through (i) UK-administered aid including aid allowance; and if he will make a statement. [60446] paid through the EU and (ii) aid administered by EU aid programmes in the latest period for which figures Maria Miller: The Government recognise the importance are available. [59956] of carer’s allowance in providing an independent source of income and recognition of the important role that Mr O’Brien: Provisional 2010 official development carers play in society. We acknowledge carers’ concerns assistance (ODA) figures, including country breakdowns, on the level of carer’s allowance, and over the last few have recently been published on the Department for months have had a number of representations on this International Development (DFID) external website: from Members of Parliament and from groups representing carers, including Carers UK. www.dfid.gov.uk The rate of carer’s allowance is increased every April While this country list is not exhaustive, final figures in line with the Consumer Price Index (CPI). The will be reported later in the year in DFID’s publication Government keep the level of carer’s allowance under ‘Statistics on International Development’. This will be review, but carers in lower income households can receive made available in the House Library or online at DFID’s additional help through the income- related benefits, external website. such as income support, housing benefit and council The United Kingdom’s attribution of the European tax benefit. These benefits include a carer premium of Commissions External Assistance budget in 2010-11 is £31.00 a week. Carers will also be supported through estimated at £954 million. In 2010 DFID’s core funding the universal credit from 2013. to the European Development fund was 425 million. The European Union’s most recent Annual Report, the Carers Week Annual Report 2010 on the European Community’s Development and External Assistance Policies and their Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Implementation in 2009, is available in the House Library. and Pensions what steps his Department is taking to Scotland (a) promote and (b) mark Carers Week; and if he will make a statement. [59047]

Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Maria Miller: I am proud to support Carers Week International Development what proportion of contracts 2011. It gives us the opportunity to highlight and celebrate issued by (a) his Department and (b) agencies for the outstanding contribution that all carers make to which he is responsible were awarded to small and their families and their communities, through their tireless medium-sized enterprises in (i) Scotland, (ii) South devotion of time, energy and efforts to looking after a Lanarkshire and (iii) Rutherglen and Hamilton West loved one. The Department for Work and Pensions will constituency in the latest period for which figures are be supporting Carers Week in a number of ways: available. [60207] actively working with advisory and representative groups to ensure that carers, and carers groups, have access to the information Mr O’Brien: The Department for International they need on benefits and other forms of support the Department Development (DFID) does not currently hold information can offer; relating to contracts awarded to small and medium-sized raising staff awareness of Carers Week to increase understanding enterprises (SMEs). To collate this information would of the issues that face carers, and encouraging participation in incur disproportionate costs. local activities; In April 2011, DFID developed and published on seeking staff feedback on how it can better support them in the our external website, a specific action plan to assist challenging role of maintaining employment and care. SMEs. The document can be accessed at: In addition to this a number of staff in Jobcentre http://www.dfid.gov.uk/Working-with-DFID/Procurement/ Plus and the Pensions and Disability Carers Service will Actions-to-Assist-Small-and-Medium-Enterprises/ be taking part in local Carers Week events. 29W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 30W

Departmental Procurement We are unable to answer your specific question regarding the number of new claims for DLA with cancer as a Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for primary condition. This is because our management Work and Pensions if his Department will list on information system does not go down to the level of Contract Finder the confirmed sub-contracts of its detail that would enable us to identify the number of prime contractors. [60953] new claimants for disability living allowance (DLA) with cancer as a primary condition. Chris Grayling: At this stage DWP are currently in Source: discussions with bidders regarding which elements of DLA claims: Department for Work and Pensions—RDA60209 their contracts under the Freedom of Information Act reports— DLA Management Information Statistics. can be published. Once agreement has been reached Employment and Support Allowance then the contracts including subcontractor details will be published on Contracts Finder website: Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work http://www.contractsfinder.businesslink.gov.uk/Common/ and Pensions what support he plans to provide to View%20Notice.aspx?site=1000&lang=en&Noticeld=1161 people moving from incapacity benefits onto employment and support allowance and jobseeker’s allowance in Disability Carers Service: Correspondence finding employment. [45045] Maria Miller: Moving on to more active benefits will Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for give our customers a real opportunity to get back to Work and Pensions if he will put in place a means to work. Whether on employment and support allowance deal with urgent correspondence from hon. Members (ESA) or jobseeker’s allowance (JSA), we will ensure within the Parliamentary Business Unit of the Disability that they receive all the support they need, tailored to Carers Service. [58560] their particular circumstances. Through the groundbreaking Work programme we Maria Miller: For all Members of Parliament urgent are giving those in the private and voluntary sector with correspondence in the Pension, Disability and Carers the best expertise the freedom to design tailor-made Service Parliamentary Business Unit is cleared to an back to work support built around the needs of the agreed target of 90% within 15 days of date of receipt. individual. In return for that freedom to innovate we This target is as set by the Cabinet Office and Department will pay providers by results and we will incentivise for Work and Pensions Customer Standards Group. them to focus their resources on our hardest to help The current rate of success in answering correspondence customers, including those customers who claim JSA or within the 15 day limit is 100%. The address for urgent ESA after reassessment. Following reassessment, most correspondence is: of those who go on to receive ESA will be able to access Pension, Disability and Carers Service the Work programme immediately, while those who go Parliamentary Business Unit on to claim JSA will be able to access the Work programme from three months into their claim, recognising the Room 114 additional challenges they may face in preparing for Norcross and finding work compared with other jobseekers. Blackpool We are also modernising the way Jobcentre Plus FY5 3TA. delivers its services to customers outside of the Work A telephone hotline service is also available specifically programme. Jobcentre Plus advisers will have the flexibility for Members of Parliament where requests are replied to assess customers’ individual needs and offer the to by phone within 48 hours and the service is available support they see fit, drawing from a flexible menu of Monday to Friday during the hours of 9 am to 5 pm. provision. The telephone number is 01253 333533. Our mainstream provision will be complemented by specialist disability employment programmes including Disability Living Allowance Work Choice, which will continue to help people with more severe disabilities or complex needs to prepare for work and to undertake supported employment, with Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and the aim of progressing into unsupported employment Pensions how many new claimants for disability living where possible. allowance there have been (a) in total and (b) with cancer as a primary condition in each of the last five Catherine McKinnell: To ask the Secretary of State years. [58622] for Work and Pensions what steps he plans to take to ensure support is in place for people with degenerative Maria Miller: The number of new claims for DLA diseases to find work within 12 months following the received during each of the previous five years is: implementation of his proposals to limit the payment of contributory employment support allowance to one DLA claims received year; and if he will make a statement. [60918] 2006-07 430,900 Chris Grayling: Support to find work will be available 2007-08 448,100 for all employment and support allowance (ESA) customers 2008-09 472,200 from the outset of their claim, irrespective of their 2009-10 483,000 health condition. This support is available through Jobcentre 2010-11 441,300 Plus on a voluntary basis until the outcome of the work capability assessment (WCA) is known. 31W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 32W

Following the WCA, for most ESA customers placed This means determining all their own arrangements, in the Work Related Activity Group, this support will including assembling and managing their own supply be mandatory either through Jobcentre Plus or through chains. The payment model has been designed so that the Work programme. providers will always want to maximise performance, so The vast majority of ESA customers who want the it will be in their interest to ensure that their subcontractor more intensive support offered by the Work programme staff are appropriately trained. will be able to access it as soon as the outcome of the WCA is known. This includes contributory ESA customers Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State who can remain on the programme after their benefit for Work and Pensions how much funding for the Work has come to an end, ensuring that they receive all the programme he plans to allocate to the west midlands in support they need to help them return to work. The each of the next five years; and if he will make a Work programme will place customers in the best possible statement. [59970] position to return to work once they are well enough to do so. Mr Donohoe: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Alternatively those with the most severe disabilities and Pensions how much Work programme funding he may receive support through Work Choice. plans to allocate to Scotland in each of the next five years; and if he will make a statement. [60585] Employment and Support Allowance: Mental Health Chris Grayling: Work programme funding has not Chris Evans: To ask the Secretary of State for Work been allocated by country or region. Funding will ultimately and Pensions what discussions he has had with come down to individual prime providers, and the amount representatives of mental health charities on the potential they are awarded will very much depend on the performance effects of implementation of changes to employment they achieve. We estimate the overall spend for the and support allowance on the mental health of applicants. Work programme to be between £3 billion to £5 billion [58960] over the life of the contracts. Chris Grayling: The Department values the views of disability groups and we engage in ongoing and helpful Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for dialogue both at ministerial and official level with group Work and Pensions what proportion of Work programme representatives. For example, since December 2010, participants he expects to deal with (a) private sector, Jobcentre Plus partnership teams have been engaging (b) voluntary sector and (c) other providers at the with customer representative and advisory groups at a point of service delivery. [60949] local level. My officials have also recently met with MIND, Mencap, National Autistic Society, and RNIB Chris Grayling: The Work programme will provide to discuss the work capability assessment. personalised support to an expected 2.4 million claimants We have also consulted with a broad range of over the next seven years. stakeholders including independent providers of mental We expect 630,000 people to start the Work programme health services at various national forums and events. in the 10 months between June 2011 and March 2012. Our customer communications and awareness learning By the end of 2012-13 the Work programme could be materials for staff have been developed in response to supporting up to 1.2 million people. feedback received at these events. The organisations delivering the Work programme, We recognise that attending any medical assessment including first and second tier subcontractors, are split can be a stressful experience, and these will not be as follows (a) private sector 38% (b) voluntary sector carried out if there is enough existing evidence to decide 46% and (c) public sector 16%. At this stage it is not benefit entitlement. The healthcare professionals who possible to say whether participants will be dealt with carry out the examinations are trained in assessing by each sector in precisely the same proportions. The vulnerable customers, and when people are asked to proportions will become clearer over time as participants come for an assessment claimants are encouraged to are referred to the programme. bring a friend or relative with them. We are committed to engaging with third party Employment Schemes: Voluntary Organisations organisations, including mental health charities, on an ongoing basis so that they can support their customers through the incapacity benefit reassessment journey. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 13 June Employment Schemes 2011, Official Report, column 662W, on employment schemes: voluntary organisations, how many of the Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State voluntary sector organisations in the Work programme for Work and Pensions if his Department will provide supply chain will operate in each of the 18 regions. training for voluntary groups who are assisting the [60866] long-term unemployed as part of his proposals for the Work programme; and if he will make a statement. Chris Grayling: The Work programme supply chain [59969] information, including the number of voluntary sector organisations, has been published on the Supplying Chris Grayling: Work programme providers will be DWP website: free to design support based on individual and local http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare- need. to-work-services/work-programme/ 33W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 34W

Incapacity Benefit Jobcentre Plus: Reorganisation

Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Blunkett: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Work and Pensions how many people moved from and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 11 May 2011, incapacity benefit to (a) jobseeker’s allowance and (b) Official Report, columns 1239-40W, on Jobcentre Plus: the work related activity group found employment in reorganisation, when he plans to make an announcement the latest period for which figures are available. [59656] on the new managerial and organisational structure; and what assessment he has made of the effect of the Chris Grayling: The information requested is not new structure on (a) co-ordination, (b) handling of available. individual constituency queries, (c) the responsibility Claimants leaving incapacity benefit are not required of Ministers within his Department and (d) Jobcentre to inform the Department of their destinations or future Plus management decision making. [58413] intentions and hence the information that is collected on this group is incomplete. Chris Grayling: The answer of 11 May 2011 explained that the Department is reviewing its structure and senior Incapacity Benefits: Appeals management responsibilities so that our programme of reforms and efficiency savings are delivered effectively. Dr Whiteford: To ask the Secretary of State for Work The Department’s executive team is therefore leading and Pensions what time period he has set in which a programme of work to design the new managerial and incapacity benefit claimants will be able to appeal organisational structure. This will support the delivery reassessment decisions. [45021] of efficient, coherent services to both pensioner and working age customers. Chris Grayling: The time limit for appealing all benefit The Permanent Secretary will announce the senior outcome decision, including those on incapacity benefit civil service responsibilities in this new structure to reassessments, is one month after the date the notification departmental staff shortly. of the decision was sent to the claimant. This can be The Department has considered the effect of the new extended by up to 12 months where there are special structure on the coordination and handling of constituency circumstances for not making the appeal within the one queries, and is confident that these will continue to be month period. handled effectively. The quality of decision making by Jobcentre Plus managers will also be unaffected. Industrial Injuries If, in future, there are any changes to ministerial responsibilities, these will be appropriately communicated. Mr Crausby: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many complaints of high temperatures Jobseeker’s Allowance in the workplace the Health and Safety Executive received in each of the last six years. [57955] Mr Donohoe: To ask the Secretary of State for Work (a) Chris Grayling: The information requested is not and Pensions how many claimants of jobseeker’s (b) collated centrally in a readily retrievable format and allowance and employment and support allowance could be provided only at disproportionate cost. in Scotland have been receiving benefits for more than 10 years. [60586]

Jobcentre Plus: Manpower Chris Grayling: The numbers of claimants for both jobseeker’s allowance and employment support allowance Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for who have been receiving benefits for more than 10 years Work and Pensions whether Jobcentre Plus offices have in Scotland are as follows. It should be noted that set any targets for the number of sanctions to be issued incapacity benefit was replaced by employment support by each Jobcentre Plus officer. [53573] allowance from October 2008. (a) 90 jobseeker’s allowance claimants have been receiving Chris Grayling: The administration of Jobcentre Plus benefits continuously for more than 10 years in Scotland. is a matter for the chief executive, Darra Singh. I have (b) 105,750 incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance asked him to provide the right hon. Member with the claimants have been receiving benefits continuously for more information requested. than 10 years in Scotland. Employment support allowance was Letter from Darra Singh: introduced in 2008 and therefore there are no claimants on this benefit who have been claiming for more than 10 years. The Secretary of State has asked me to reply to your question asking whether Jobcentre Plus offices have set any targets for the Note: Figures are sourced from the Work and Pensions Longitudinal number of sanctions to be issued by each Jobcentre Plus officer. Study and have been rounded to nearest 10. This is something that falls within the responsibilities delegated to me as Chief Executive of Jobcentre Plus. Jobseeker’s Allowance: Coventry I can confirm that no such targets exist and that we have reinforced this message to our District Managers. Sanctions should only be made where people have not adhered to their jobseeker Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State obligations. Ministers have been clear that conditionality is an for Work and Pensions how many claimants of (a) important part of the Jobseeker’s regime. Ministers are also, clear jobseeker’s allowance and (b) employment and support however that this should only be applied where appropriate. allowance in Coventry have been receiving benefits for I hope this information is helpful. more than 10 years. [59968] 35W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 36W

Chris Grayling: Following are the numbers of claimants As an agency of the Health and Safety Executive, for both jobseeker’s allowance and employment support sponsorship of the ONR rests with the Department for allowance who have been receiving benefits for more Work and Pensions. The Government announced, on 8 than 10 years in Coventry. It should be noted that February 2011, their intention to bring forward legislation incapacity benefit was replaced by employment support to establish the ONR as an independent statutory body allowance from October 2008. outside of the HSE. There are no plans to change (a) No jobseeker’s allowance claimants have been receiving existing sponsorship arrangements, which ensure the benefits for more than 10 years in Coventry. necessary separation between the nuclear regulator and (b) 4, 960 incapacity benefit/severe disablement allowance the body responsible for the promotion of nuclear claimants have been receiving benefits for more than 10 years in energy. Coventry. Employment support allowance was introduced in 2008 and therefore there are no claimants on this benefit who have been claiming for more than 10 years. Poverty: Children Note: Figures are sourced from the Work and Pensions Longitudinal Mr Donohoe: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Study and have been rounded to nearest 10. and Pensions what steps he is taking to reduce child poverty in Scotland. [60584] Life Expectancy Maria Miller: As set out in the Coalition Document, Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for the Government are committed to eradicating child Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 17 poverty in the UK by 2020. We published our strategy January 2011, Official Report, column 517W, on life for doing so in April. It sets out a new approach to expectancy, when he plans to place in the Library tackling poverty and securing social justice aimed at copies of the tables on healthy and disability-free life transforming lives and tackling the causes of poverty. expectancy which his Department has commissioned At its heart are the principles of work, fairness, responsibility from the Office for National Statistics. [60877] and support for the most vulnerable. It draws together our radical programme of reform of welfare and education, Steve Webb: The reply to which the hon. Member increasing children’s life chances, with a greater refers states that the Department uses data published by concentration on early intervention and on whole-family the Office for National Statistics as the main source of and whole-life measures. Our strategy establishes a UK-wide information on life expectancy and on healthy and framework for tackling child poverty and builds on disability-free life expectancy. The only previously strategies developed by the devolved Administrations, unpublished life expectancy data the Department including that published by the Scottish Government in commissioned from the Office for National Statistics March this year. relate to improvements in life expectancy of people in each social cohort. These were published in the impact assessment which accompanies the Pensions Bill 2011 Shared Housing: Bradford (Annex A, pages 17 and 18). Mr Ward: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Members: Correspondence Pensions what recent assessment his Department has made of the availability of shared accommodation in Mike Crockart: To ask the Secretary of State for Bradford. [57991] Work and Pensions when he plans to respond to the urgent request from the constituent of the hon. Member Steve Webb: No assessment has been made of the for Edinburgh West, Roderick Bowie-MacDonald. supply of shared accommodation in Bradford. [58559]

Chris Grayling: A letter dated 23 March 2011 was Unemployed People: Public Transport received on 8 April 2011 and the Acting Chief Executive of the Pension Disability and Carers Service replied on Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 11 April 2011. and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 23 May 2011, Official Report, columns 499-500W,on Travel to Interview, Office for Nuclear Regulation how much was granted through (a) the Travel to Interview Scheme and (b) each other scheme being replaced by Dr Thérèse Coffey: To ask the Secretary of State for the Flexible Support Scheme in each year since 2005. Work and Pensions what discussions he has had with [58420] the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change on the transfer of ministerial responsibility for the Chris Grayling: The Flexible Support Fund has replaced Office of Nuclear Regulation; and if he will make a the following employment programmes: New Deal for statement. [59340] Lone Parents; New Deal for Partners; Deprived Areas Fund; Advisor Discretion Fund; Customer Services Chris Grayling: Ministers of the Department for Work Director’s Flexible Fund; Rapid Response, Work Trials, and Pensions and the Department for Energy and Climate Allowances and Expenses for clients undertaking basic Change met in November 2010 to discuss the establishment skills training; Travel to Interview Scheme. The total of the Office for Nuclear Regulation (ONR). There spend on these programmes since 2005-06 is shown in have been no further meetings on this issue since then. the following table. 37W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 38W

Employment programme spend £ million 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-111

New Deal for Lone Parents 2 26.0 41.5 21.1 29.4 18.2 5.6 New Deal for Partners 0.7 0.6 0.2 0.2 0.1 0.1 Deprived Areas Fund3 58.2 21.6 59.0 63.9 63.0 57.4 Advisor Discretion Fund4 17.3 12.8 14.2 16.8 40.2 16.8 Customer Services Director’s Flexible Fund5 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.5 1.9 Rapid Response 0.7 1.4 0.6 0.9 10.0 6.5 Work Trials 0.1 0.2 0.4 0.9 1.4 0.9 Allowances and expenses for clients 0.0 1.9 8.7 14.4 22.6 23.2 undertaking basic skills training6 Travel to Interview Scheme7 2.3 2.3 2.2 3.1 6.5 5.7 Total 105.3 82.3 106.4 129.6 162.5 118.1 1 Figures for 2010-11 are provisional subject to formal sign-off of the departmental accounts. 2 The spend on New Deal for Lone Parents has reduced considerably since 2009-10 as alternative provision for this client group has been available throughthe Jobcentre Plus Support Contract. 3 The Deprived Areas Fund was broadly similar to a range of earlier programmes, specifically Working Neighbourhood Pilots, External and Internal Action teams and Ethnic Minority Outreach. Spend figures prior to 2007-08 relate to these earlier programmes. 4 The large peak in ADF spend in 2009-10 arose as part of the package of measures to help address the economic downturn. This included allowing newly unemployed customers, access to support under ADF from day one of their jobseekers’ allowance (JSA) claim. This easement gave advisers the flexibility to tailor the help and support they offered to suit customer needs and deal with any small challenges that may have otherwise prevented a customer from obtaining a specific job more, quickly. Prior to this ADF was only available to people who had been in continuous receipt of JSA for 26 weeks or more, unless they were participating in one of the New Deal schemes. In 2010 stricter cost controls were put in place to reduce the spend along with a number of changes in scope, for example, ADF was no longer used to fund training for an individual which would otherwise be available through other employment programmes. 5 Customer Services Director’s Flexible Fund was only operational from 2009-10. 6 These allowances and expenses were only payable from 2006/07 onwards. 7 The amount spent on the Travel to Interview Scheme has risen over the last two years as a result of significantly higher take-up.

Work Capability Assessment Following the decision to convert at least one of the carriers to carry the more capable carrier variant of the Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Joint Strike Fighter, the list of secondary aircraft is Work and Pensions which version of the Work Capability being updated to reflect the change in aircraft launch Assessment will be applied to (a) new claimants who and recovery equipment. While some fixed-wing applied for employment and support allowance (i) before aircraft are included within this list, we have not yet and (ii) on or after 28 March 2011 and (b) incapacity made any decisions as to whether there is a requirement benefit recipients who were sent an IB50 form (A) for a specific onboard delivery aircraft, and if so, which aircraft or helicopter would undertake such a role. before and (B) on or after 28 March 2011. [60819]

Chris Grayling: Changes to the work capability Armed Services: Greater London assessment (WCA) came into force through regulations on 28 March 2011. The assessment and the ESA50 Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for questionnaire were updated to reflect these changes. Defence how many new recruits to each of the armed Individuals receiving a new ESA50 questionnaire (reflecting services were recorded as domiciled in each London the new regulations) will have a determination made borough in financial year 2009-10. [59944] under the new regulations. The new ESA50 form began being issued to claimants from 14 March Mr Robathan: This information is not held in the 2011. format requested. However, the following table provides the number of recruits, in financial year 2009-10, through The IB50 form ceased being sent to recipients of London-based careers offices or with educational links incapacity benefit during January 2011. to London. While this will give an indication of the numbers recruited from London it does not provide a comprehensive picture of where individuals actually reside as they may not always apply to join the services DEFENCE through their nearest career office or may choose other means by which to apply. Aircraft Carriers Officers and other ranks recruited through London-based Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for establishments in financial year Defence whether the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers Service 2009-10 are designed to allow for the operation of fixed-wing RoyalNavyandRoyal 204 carrier on-board delivery aircraft. [60223] Marines Army 921 Peter Luff: The Queen Elizabeth (QE) class aircraft Royal Air Force 68 carriers are optimised around an air group consisting of the Joint Strike Fighter and Merlin helicopter, with Royal Navy and Royal Marines Officers, included in a number of other aircraft designated as ‘secondary the Royal Navy and Royal Marines total, are primarily aircraft’ which could be operated from the carrier—but recruited via regional officer careers liaison centres, with varying degrees of operational limitation. each of which covers a large area of the UK. The 39W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 40W recruitment data for army officers, included in the Mr Robathan: I refer the hon. Member to the joint Army total, are based on data related to the location of statement I made with the Under-Secretary of State for the schools and universities from which officers are Justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Mr recruited together with the small number recruited via Blunt), in the House on 15 September 2010, Official careers offices. Report, column 40WS, on the findings of a study by Defence Analytical Services and Advice (DASA), Departmental Procurement which is the major piece of research my Department has undertaken on the characteristics of veterans in Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for prison. Defence what progress his Department has made in encouraging small businesses to bid for Government Ex-servicemen: Suicide contracts. [60181] Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for Peter Luff: The Ministry of Defence (MOD) recognises Defence what information his Department holds on the the contribution made by small businesses who often number of veterans who committed suicide in each of bring the agility and innovation we need in responding the last 20 years. [60156] to demanding and urgent military requirements. For this reason, our consultation Green Paper, ‘Equipment, Support and Technology for UK Defence and Security’, Mr Robathan: Information on the total number of published last December, specifically sought views and veterans who committed suicide in each of the last 20 ideas for encouraging small businesses to participate years is not held. The Ministry of Defence (MOD) and a number of specific steps will be set out in a White currently publish data of detailed causes of the mortality, Paper later this year. including suicide, of veterans of the 1990-91 operation in the Gulf, together with comparative data for a matched In the meantime, we encourage small businesses to cohort of personnel who did not deploy. The latest bid for MOD contracts by advertising our requirements data, produced by Defence Analytical Services and over £10,000 on the Government’s new ‘Contracts Finder’ Advice (DASA), was released on 31 March 2011. electronic portal and we are working to simplify the bidding and contracting processes. We are also working The MOD also commissioned research from with our major prime contractors with a view to improving Manchester university to investigate the level of suicide small business access to sub-contract opportunities. among those leaving the UK armed forces, over the period 1996 to 2005, and to make comparisons with EU Law matched personnel remaining in service and the general population. This work was published in March 2009. Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Copies of both reports will be placed in the Library for what European directives in force on 1 April 2010 of the House. his Department is responsible; and what European directives The MOD is currently undertaking research into the for which his Department is responsible have come into causes of death, including suicide, among those who force since 1 April 2010. [60688] served in the Falklands campaign. This research, which is expected to be completed by the end of March 2012, Mr Robathan: The Ministry of Defence is responsible will assist us in continuing to develop our support for for transposing one EU Directive into domestic law, our former personnel and those leaving the services. namely the Defence and Security Directive (2009/81/EC). The MOD is also undertaking a similar study on This concerns the coordination of procedures for the veterans of operations Telic and Herrick. This will award of certain works contracts, supply contracts and monitor the causes of death, including suicide, and service contracts by contracting authorities or entities cancer morbidity of all serving members of the armed in the fields of Defence and Security. This directive forces from 2003 until the end of operations in came into force on 21 August 2009 under the previous Afghanistan. The intention is to run the study for the Government. lifetime of the cohort; therefore the population will include both serving and discharged personnel. Ex-servicemen: Alcoholism Gulf States: Royal Military Academy Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what estimate his Department has made of the number of veterans who left the forces (a) in the last Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Secretary of State two years, (b) between two and five years ago, (c) for Defence what officer training co-operation with between five and 10 years ago and (d) more than 10 Gulf State forces is being undertaken at the Royal years ago who are diagnosed with alcohol abuse. [60155] Military Academy Sandhurst. [60081]

Mr Robathan: No information is held that would Nick Harvey: Currently the Royal Military Academy enable such an estimate to be made. Sandhurst has 25 officer cadets under training from those states that border the Arabian Gulf. Ex-servicemen: Prisoners Overseas officer cadets are sponsored to the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst via official agreements Mr David Hamilton: To ask the Secretary of State for between the UK Ministry of Defence, in conjunction Defence what research his Department has undertaken with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office as on the characteristics of veterans in prison. [60226] necessary, and the relevant national authority. 41W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 42W

Merlin Helicopters Nick Harvey: The most recent assessment of the performance of the RAF Leuchars Quick Reaction Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for Alert Force took place on 9 May 2011. Defence when the RAF Merlin Mark 3 will be Royal Irish Regiment transferred to the Royal Navy. [60876] Mr Dodds: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Mr Robathan: We intend to upgrade and transfer our how many representations he has received on his current fleet of Merlin Mk 3/3a helicopters to the decision on a homecoming parade for the Royal Irish Royal Navy: the first upgraded helicopters will enter Regiment in Belfast. [60631] service with the Commando Helicopter Force in time to replace the Sea King Mk 4 helicopters, which are Mr Robathan: The Department has received fewer planned to be withdrawn from service in 2016. than 20 representations on the subject of a homecoming parade for the Royal Irish Regiment in Belfast. Nuclear Submarines Discussions with officials from Belfast city council continue with the aim of agreeing an appropriate way st : To ask the Secretary of State for to recognise the contribution of the 1 Battalion Irish Defence (1) what the cost to the public purse will be of Guards and The Royal Irish Regiment during their last designing the US-UK Common Missile Compartment tour in Afghanistan. for the Trident replacement submarine in the period The Department acknowledges the importance for from 2011 to 2016; [60025] the general public to have an opportunity to show their (2) what proportion of the cost of the design of the appreciation and support for our service personnel; US-UK Common Missile Compartment will be met by both units will have participated in a full and engaging the public purse; and if he will make a statement; post operational tour programme by the end of this [60026] year, including events in Northern Ireland. (3) when he expects a decision to be made on the World War One: Anniversaries construction location of the US-UK Common Missile Compartment for the Trident replacement submarine; Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for and if he will make a statement. [60027] Defence what plans he has to mark the 100th anniversary of the commencement of the First World Mr Robathan: The cost to the UK Government of War in 2014. [60943] US-UK Common Missile Compartment activities over financial years 2011-12 to 2015-16 is estimated at £103 Mr Robathan: I refer the hon. Member to the reply million. The UK has agreed to pay 12.5% of all given by the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, my non-recurring expenditure on design activities. noble Friend, Lord Astor of Hever, to the noble Lord, A decision on where the UK’s Common Missile Lord Faulkner of Worcester, in another place on 22 March Compartment will be built is planned to be made 2011, Official Report, House of Lords, column 594. during 2012. That decision could be made, however, anytime up until the first quarter of 2014 without any adverse impact on the overall successor programme. EDUCATION

RAF Leuchars Academies: Brighton Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State Education what recent assessment he has made of for Defence what assessment he has made of the effect progress on the academies programme in (a) Brighton, of the geographical location of RAF Leuchars on the Kemptown constituency, (b) Brighton and Hove, (c) (a) combat radius, (b) maximum range and (c) ferry East and (d) West Sussex. [59151] range of aircraft stationed at the base in the execution of the bases’ (i) Quick Reaction Alert (North) duties Mr Gibb: As of 9 June 2011, no schools in the and (ii) other duties in relation to National Security Brighton Kemptown constituency have registered an Strategy priorities; and if he will make a statement. interest in becoming an academy. Two schools have [59616] registered an interest in Brighton and Hove, 27 in East Sussex and 19 in West Sussex. Of these, Ringmer Nick Harvey: The geographical location of bases is community college in East Sussex has applied and been an important factor in the RAFs future basing strategy. issued an Academy Order. Hazelwick school, Medmerry This takes into account requirements for both Primary School, Southwater Infant school, Southwater operational and training flying and addresses combat Junior school and Warden Park school in West Sussex radius and reaction time for Quick Reaction Alert have applied; all but Warden Park School have been commitments. issued Academy Orders. Brighton Aldridge community academy in Brighton Sir Menzies Campbell: To ask the Secretary of State and Hove, along with Eastbourne academy in East for Defence when the most recent assessment of the Sussex, and Midhurst Rother college, Shoreham academy, performance of RAF Leuchars in relation to the Sir Robert Woodard academy and The Littlehampton execution of its Quick Reaction Alert duties took academy in West Sussex have all opened as sponsored place. [59617] academies. 43W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 44W

In addition, Portslade community college in Brighton each local authority area in the west midlands in each and Hove; Fitsham Valley school, The Grove and Hillcrest year since 2008-09. [59659] school in East Sussex; and Heyworth Primary school, Manhood community college and The Regis school in West Sussex are planned to open as sponsored academies Tim Loughton: The number of children who were during the 2011/12 academic year. looked after at 31 March in each local authority area in Full details of schools that have formally applied for the west midlands, for years 2006 to 2010 (the latest academy status, as well as a list of academies that have year for which figures are available), is shown in the opened in the academic year 2010/11 can be found on following tables. the Department for Education academies website at: http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/leadership/typesofschools/ This information has been extracted from table academies/a0069811/schools-submitting-applications-and- LAA1 of the Statistical First Release ‘Children looked academies-that-have-opened-in-201011 after in England (including adoption and care leavers) Children: West Midlands year ending 31 March 2010’, this is available on the Department’s website via the following link:

David Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s000960/ Education how many children were looked after in index.shtml

Table 1: Children looked after at 31 March, in the west midlands by local authority1,2 , years ending 31 March 2006 to 2010 , coverage: England Numbers and rates per 10,000 children aged under 18 years Numbers3 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

England 60,300 60,000 59,400 60,900 64,400

West Midlands 7,140 7,310 7,370 7,640 8,010 Birmingham 1,970 2.105 2,095 2,095 2,035 Coventry 490 500 535 515 590 Dudley 450 470 510 545 615 Herefordshire 155 170 155 165 160 Sandwell 555 500 480 475 505 Shropshire 190 185 195 200 220 280 320 340 405 415 Staffordshire 680 655 660 700 740 Stoke-On-Trent 430 440 415 395 405 Telford and Wrekin 200 230 235 250 270 Walsall 455 430 445 465 495 Warwickshire 465 455 485 540 575 Wolverhampton 375 370 350 370 400 Worcestershire 435 475 480 530 585

Numbers and rates per 10,000 children aged under 18 years Rates4 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

England5555545558

West Midlands 59 61 61 64 67 Birmingham 78 84 84 83 80 Coventry 72 74 79 76 86 Dudley 67 70 76 82 93 Herefordshire 42 46 42 45 46 Sandwell 81 74 71 70 73 Shropshire 31 31 32 33 37 Solihull 61 70 74 88 92 Staffordshire 39 38 38 41 44 Stoke-On-Trent 82 85 81 75 78 Telford and Wrekin 51 60 61 66 71 Walsall 75 71 73 77 82 Warwickshire 42 41 43 48 52 Wolverhampton 70 69 66 69 76 45W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 46W

Numbers and rates per 10,000 children aged under 18 years Rates4 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Worcestershire 37 40 41 45 50 1 Figures exclude children looked after under an agreed series of short term placements. 2 Historical data may differ from older publications. This is mainly due to the implementation of amendments and corrections sent by some local authorities after the publication date of previous materials. 3 England totals have been rounded to the nearest 100 if they exceed 1,000, and to the nearest 10 otherwise. Regional totals have been rounded to the nearest 10. Other numbers have been rounded to the nearest 5. 4 The rates per 10,000 children under 18 years have been derived using the mid-year population estimates for 2009 provided by the Office for National Statistics. Source: SSDA 903

Departmental Renewable Energy We have already completed a Call for Evidence to which the public were invited to contribute their views David Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for and experiences about curriculum subjects, including Education how many buildings (a) owned and (b) design and technology. We received nearly 5,800 leased by his Department have had renewable energy responses, including many from representatives of equipment installed to provide power in the last 12 industry and commerce, and these are currently being months; and what type of equipment was installed in analysed. We will draw on this and other evidence, each such case. [59671] including relevant international evidence, in drawing up our proposals. There will then be a further statutory consultation on those proposals early next year, before Tim Loughton: The Department for Education has final decisions are taken. not installed renewable energy equipment in any of its owned or leased buildings in the last 12 months. However, 123 photovoltaic panels were installed Home Education onto the roof of 2 St Paul’s Place in Sheffield, a property owned by the Department, in May 2010. These panels generate approximately 16,000 kWh of Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for electricity a year, for use within the building. Education what assessment he has made of the effects of funding reductions on the provision of one-to-one Departmental Responsibilities tuition in the summer term for pupils approaching examinations or end of primary school assessments. [60897] Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what strategic framework his Department has developed for the delivery of its core functions Mr Gibb: £256 million was allocated to schools in during the comprehensive spending review period. 2010-11 through the Standards Fund for one-to-one [59731] tuition. This funding has not been reduced and schools can use it until 31 August 2011. The conditions for the Tim Loughton: The Department for Education’s use of this funding have been relaxed to allow all business plan, initially published in November 2010 schools the flexibility to offer one-to-one tuition at Key with a refreshed version published in May 2011, sets Stage 4, from within their Key Stage 3 allocations. out the Department’s high-level vision and reform Funding for one-to-one tuition for 2011-12 has been priorities for the whole of the spending review period, included as part of schools’ overall budgets through alongside the resources we will spend and the data we the Dedicated Schools Grant (DSG). Schools can use will be making available to the public to show the their DSG funding as they see fit. Where schools decide impact our reforms are having. Progress against the to offer one-to-one tuition, they will have more business plan is set out in the structural reform plan flexibility to provide it in the way that best suits their monthly updates on the No. 10 website. pupils.

Design: Curriculum Marriage Guidance: Grants Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Education whether he has assessed the effects on the Andrew Selous: To ask the Secretary of State for creative industries and manufacturing of the potential Education pursuant to the answer of 27 April 2011, removal of design and technology from the national Official Report, column 497W, on marriage guidance: curriculum. [59822] grants, what proportion of the work of each organisation listed funded by his Department’s Voluntary and Mr Gibb: As part of the current review of the Community Sector Grants Scheme will be (a) preventative national curriculum we will be considering all the couple relationship support, (b) relationship counselling relevant evidence before making proposals on which, if for couples in difficulty and (c) work with families any, subjects beyond English, mathematics, science and which have already experienced break-up; in which physical education should remain part of the national local authorities they will work; and how many couples curriculum in future. he expects each organisation to help. [61057] 47W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 48W

Tim Loughton: The Department does not hold Mr Gibb [holding answer 13 June 2011]: The Independent information by organisation showing which funds have Public Service Pensions Commission, chaired by Lord been allocated by the breakdown requested by the hon. Hutton, published its final report on 10 March and the Member. Government have agreed that its recommendations will form the basis for consultation. No decisions have yet Schools: Bolton been taken on changes to the Teachers’ Pension Scheme. The Government’s consultation will include consultation Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for with representatives of all stakeholders, including teacher Education what estimate he has made of the number of unions and representatives of the Independent Schools schools in Bolton metropolitan borough that will have Sector. funding withdrawn during the academic year as a result of the reduction in his Department’s Standards Fund Teachers: Training in April 2011; and if he will make a statement. [60068]

Mr Gibb: The final instalment of the Standards Yasmin Qureshi: To ask the Secretary of State for Fund for 2010-11 was paid as part of the Dedicated Education what assessment he has made of the potential Schools Grant payment to local authorities on 19 May effect of (a) changes to the funding of teacher education 2011. These arrangements should mean that it will not and (b) the introduction of tuition fees on the (i) be necessary for local authorities to make any in-year capacity and (ii) quality of teacher education. [60153] adjustments to schools’ budgets. Mr Gibb: The Schools White Paper, “The Importance Schools: Capital Investment of Teaching”, said that we would publish details of our reforms to initial teacher training. We will shortly be Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for publishing these proposals, which will include consideration Education when he plans to respond to the James of funding and student finance. There will be a period review of capital funding. [58192] of discussion following publication when we will be seeking views from the sector about the potential effect Mr Gibb: The Government will respond to the of our proposals, and we will publish our finalised capital review soon. plans for reform once we have assessed the responses. However we are already implementing changes that are very much in the spirit of the capital review University Technical Colleges recommendations, and which will help deliver the buildings and facilities that children need. These include focusing the available funding on providing new school places Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for where they are needed, and on the buildings in the worst Education pursuant to the answer of 7 June 2011, condition; getting the best value for money from our Official Report, column 55W, on university technical existing Building Schools for the Future commitments colleges, if he will publish a list of approved university and other projects; and considering how the school technical colleges including their sponsors. [59680] premises regulations can be simplified so as to remove unnecessary burdens and blockages. Mr Gibb: The Department is now assessing the full applications that it has received to establish university Schools: Rural Areas technical colleges from September 2012 onwards. An announcement will be made in due course about those Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for that are approved. That announcement will include the Education what provisions in legislation govern the sponsors submitting the proposals. potential closure of rural schools; and whether he has University technical colleges have already been any plans to bring forward proposals to revise those approved in four cases: provisions. [58558] Walsall (black country) sponsored by Walsall college and Wolverhampton university; Mr Gibb: There is currently a presumption against Aston sponsored by Aston university; closure of rural primary schools. This was introduced in 1998 and reinforced in the 2006 Education and Greenwich sponsored by Greenwich university, Greenwich local authority and Lewisham college; and Inspections Act. Although this presumption exists, the presumption does not mean that no rural school will Hackney sponsored by Hackney community college. ever close, but it does ensure that the case for closure is Of these, Walsall and Aston have signed funding strong and that the proposals are clearly in the best agreements. interests of educational provision in the area. We recognise the importance of preserving access to a local school for rural communities and therefore plan for the presumption against the closure of rural schools to COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT continue. Teachers: Pensions Social Housing

Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for 22. Stephen Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Education what assessment he has made of the effects Communities and Local Government what steps his of proposed changes to the Teachers Pension Scheme Department is taking to increase the provision of social on teachers in independent schools. [59393] rented housing. [60295] 49W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 50W

Andrew Stunell: The Government are investing nearly Greg Clark: Ministers have written to Welsh Assembly £4.5 billion to help deliver up to 150,000 new affordable Government Ministers about a range of issues in the homes between 2011-12 and 2014-15 in England. Localism Bill. We have introduced a new more flexible form of As normal with Bills that affect Wales, discussions social housing, Affordable Rent, which will be the main between the Department and the Welsh Assembly element of the new supply. There will also be some Government have been ongoing as the Localism Bill flexibility to fund other forms of tenure including social has progressed through this House and the other place. rent in exceptional circumstances. Audit Commission: National Audit Office Mr Love: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what estimate his Department has made of the likely number of new Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for social housing starts between May 2010 and April Communities and Local Government on what dates 2015. [60293] representatives of the Audit Commission dined with representatives of the National Audit Office paid for by Grant Shapps: Between 1 April 2010 and 31 March the public purse since 2007-08; in which restaurants 2011, there were 35,690 starts on site for social rented each meal took place; and at what cost. [61062] homes through the Homes and Communities Agency. We are investing £4.5 billion to deliver up to 150,000 Robert Neill: This is an operational matter for the new affordable homes between 1 April 2011 and 31 Audit Commission and I have asked the chief executive March 2015. of the Audit Commission to respond to my hon. Friend direct. Local Government Resources Review Letter from Eugene Sullivan, dated 20 June 2011: Your Parliamentary Question has been passed to me to reply. 21. Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for The Commission has paid for meals with the NAO on five Communities and Local Government what recent occasions since 2007/08: progress he has made on the local government 1 November 2007 the then MD, Communications met with resources review. [60294] Gabrielle Cohen, Assistant Auditor General NAO for lunch. Information on the location and cost is no longer available. Mr Pickles: Since the publication of the terms of 3 December 2007 Steve Bundred, Chief Executive and Sir John reference on 17 March 2011, the local government Bourn, Comptroller and Auditor General of the NAO, dined at resource review has been considering options on how to L’Escargot at a cost of £103.39; allow local authorities to keep at least a proportion of 5 May 2009 Steve Bundred, Chief Executive, Michael O’Higgins, business rates, and how to introduce powers to allow Chairman and Amyas Morse, Comptroller and Auditor General them to carry out tax increment financing. The review of the NAO dined at Qurinale at a cost of £240.19; has held a number of meetings with partners in local 14 September 2009 David Walker, MD Communications met government and with businesses and their representative with Gabrielle Cohen, Assistant Auditor General NAO at the organisations. It will publish its proposals shortly for Ebury Wine Bar at a cost of £53.04; and consultation. 7 April 2010 David Walker, MD Communications met with Gabrielle Cohen, Assistant Auditor General NAO at the Footstool restaurant at a cost of £22.50. Housing: Pendle The Commission dined with the NAO on three occasions where the Commission did not pay. 24. Andrew Stephenson: To ask the Secretary of State 11 June 2007 Steve Bundred, Chief Executive and Sir John for Communities and Local Government what steps his Bourn, Comptroller and Auditor General of the NAO met for Department is taking to reduce the number of empty dinner at Wiltons; homes and to support housing regeneration in Pendle 15 January 2009 David Walker, MD Communications met constituency. [60297] with Gabrielle Cohen, Assistant Auditor General NAO for lunch at the Ebury Wine Bar; and Andrew Stunell: Over the next six years, through the 2 February 2011 Eugene Sullivan, Chief Executive had a New Homes Bonus, Pendle will receive over £600,000 breakfast meeting with the Comptroller and Auditor General of for additional homes and empty properties brought the NAO, Amyas Morse at the Mint Hotel. into use in the first year. Further payments will be made based on future delivery. EU Grants and Loans: Yorkshire and the Humber Pendle will also benefit from the £30 million provided nationally to help challenged Housing Market Renewal Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for areas exit from the programme. Communities and Local Government how much funding from the European Regional Development Fund for Localism Bill: Wales Yorkshire and the Humber has not yet been allocated in the most recent spending round. [60267] Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what recent Robert Neill: Of the total ¤583,580,959 allocated discussions he has had with Ministers in the Welsh from the European Regional Development Fund to Government on the effects on Wales of implementation Yorkshire and Humber, ¤326,521,131 has yet to be of the provisions of the Localism Bill. [60296] committed. 51W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 52W

Fire Services each region between April 2010 and March 2011. [60712] Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government how many fire Chris Williamson: To ask the Secretary of State for hydrants are in operation in England and Wales. Communities and Local Government how many rescues [60256] from fires each fire brigade in each region carried out in the latest period for which figures are available. [60255] Robert Neill: This information is not held centrally. Robert Neill: The number of persons rescued from Kate Hoey: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities fires between 1 April 2010 and 31 March 2011 for each and Local Government how many rescues from fires fire and rescue authority area and for each statistical were carried out (a) by each fire brigade and (b) in region are shown in the following table.

Rescues from fires by fire and rescue authority area and by region, England, 2010-111 Casualties rescued2 Uninjured and rescued Rescued by Rescued by other/ Rescued by Rescued by other/ Total persons firefighters unknown firefighters unknown rescued

East Midlands 97 47 92 63 299 Derbyshire 27 15 33 31 106 Leicestershire 14 7 10 10 41 Lincolnshire771015 Northamptonshire 14 8 14 9 45 Nottinghamshire 35 10 34 13 92

Eastern 133 45 146 58 382 Bedfordshire 16 1 34 3 54 Cambridgeshire 10 7 11 24 52 Essex 35 10 42 5 92 Hertfordshire 29 8 10 9 56 Norfolk 20 8 20 7 55 Suffolk 23 11 29 10 73

London 296 97 226 89 708

North East 90 31 47 21 189 Cleveland 1448329 Durham 1673632 Northumberland 248418 Tyne and Wear 58 16 28 8 110

North West 378 129 197 61 765 Cheshire 1014351776 Cumbria 1537328 Lancashire 105 25 38 12 180 Greater Manchester 201 73 88 21 383 Merseyside 47 14 29 8 98

South East 235 58 188 53 534 Berkshire 18 9 35 6 68 Buckinghamshire 10 4 14 2 30 East Sussex 30 8 29 7 74 Hampshire 34 7 36 8 85 Isle of Wight 30104 Kent 56 15 38 12 121 Oxfordshire 19 5 10 4 38 Surrey 20 8 18 7 53 WestSussex4527761

South West 91 58 115 55 319 Avon 22 12 19 15 68 Cornwall 688830 Devon and Somerset 30 12 54 18 114 Dorset 6 1 20 2 29 53W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 54W

Rescues from fires by fire and rescue authority area and by region, England, 2010-111 Casualties rescued2 Uninjured and rescued Rescued by Rescued by other/ Rescued by Rescued by other/ Total persons firefighters unknown firefighters unknown rescued

Gloucestershire 17 16 9 6 48 Wiltshire 1095630

West Midlands 180959750422 Hereford and Worcester 16 11 10 4 41 Shropshire 9 2 10 4 25 Staffordshire 34 26 8 19 87 Warwickshire 4 8 17 8 37 West Midlands 117 48 52 15 232

Yorkshire and Humberside 210 90 135 61 496 Humberside 57 27 19 16 119 North Yorkshire 18 5 16 2 41 South Yorkshire 33 14 40 24 111 West Yorkshire 102 44 60 19 225

England 1,710 650 1,243 511 4,114 1 = Provisional 2 Includes 367 cases where there was no obvious sign of injury but a precautionary check was recommended. Source: Fire and Rescue Incident Records, DCLG

Heating: Registration Housing: Leeds

Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of Greg Mulholland: To ask the Secretary of State for State for Communities and Local Government for what Communities and Local Government what proportion reasons he proposes to make UK Accreditation Service of homes built in Leeds were built on (a) brownfield registration compulsory for solid fuel installations; and (b) greenfield land in each of the last five years. what estimate he has made of the number of installers [60230] who are likely to be affected by this change; what timetable he has set for its introduction; and if he will Robert Neill: The proportion of homes built on make a statement. [60959] previously-developed (including previously-residential) and non previously-developed land in the periods 2002 to 2005 and 2006 to 2009 can be found in the following Andrew Stunell: The Department is proposing to table. introduce a requirement for UKAS accreditation to standard EN 45011 for all Building Regulations competent Leeds 2002-05 2006-09 person self-certification schemes, including those authorised for the installation of solid fuel combustion appliances. Previously-developed 81 81 Accreditation to this standard will improve the consistency Non previously-developed 19 19 of the quality assurance systems of the schemes, particularly in respect of the assessment of the technical competence This information is taken from table P213 of the and monitoring of activities of their members. This will Department for Communities and Local Government’s also help to improve compliance with the Building Live Tables on Land Use Change Statistics. Regulations to the benefit of the customers of the Information for local authorities is shown in four-year members. periods because of volatility in estimates for individual years. Accreditation applies to the operators of competent person schemes, not to the registered members of the The figures for previously developed land include schemes and should have little or no effect on the development on gardens. members who are competent and carry out compliant work. Accreditation will bring competent person schemes Local Government: Complaints into line with the Department for Energy and Climate Change’s Microgeneration Certification Scheme and the Green Deal. Mr Brine: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government whether he has At 31 March 2011 there were about 1,900 registered considered the merits of allowing complaints lodged installer members of competent person schemes authorised against parish and town councils to be investigated by for the installation of solid fuel combustion appliances. the local government ombudsman. [58532] We propose to introduce the requirement from 1 October 2011 but will grant schemes an appropriate transitional Robert Neill: We are open to representations on this period after that to achieve accreditation. matter. 55W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 56W

Oil The Rent Service was abolished in 2009 and its functions transferred to the VOA. Historical information is not Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for collated centrally and could be provided only at Communities and Local Government what plans his disproportionate cost. Department has to address the challenges posed by Trade Unions peak oil. [60099] Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for Robert Neill: I refer the hon. Member to the answer Communities and Local Government whether his given by the Minister of State, Department of Energy Department has made an estimate of the number of and Climate Change, my hon. Friend the Member for full-time trades union officials whose salary is paid by Wealden (Charles Hendry), on 16 June 2011, Official local authorities. [61067] Report, column 895W. Robert Neill: This information is not centrally collated by my Department. Private Rented Housing: Standards However, in September 2010, I note that the Taxpayers’ Alliance published a comprehensive survey of public Oliver Colvile: To ask the Secretary of State for authorities’ employment of trade union officials. Communities and Local Government if he will bring http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/campaign/2010/09/new- forward proposals to amend the Localism Bill to enable tpa-research-taxpayers-fund-trade-unions-to-the-tune-of- local authorities to impose penalties on private landlords 85-million-a-year.html who are found to be in breach of national and local Moving forward, my Department’s local government standards for the quality of accommodation on more transparency initiative will help ensure that payments to than one occasion. [60754] trade unions and the titles of staff posts are open to greater public scrutiny. Grant Shapps: Local authorities already have powers under the Housing Act 2004 to take action against the owners of properties which are not properly maintained. HEALTH If, having made an assessment under the Housing Health and Safety Rating System, a property is found to contain Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse serious (category 1) hazards, the local authority has a duty to take the most appropriate action. This could Mrs Laing: To ask the Secretary of State for Health range from trying to deal with the problems informally how many alcohol-related admissions to hospital in at first to prohibiting the use of the whole or part of the 2009-10 were readmissions. [59926] dwelling depending on the severity of the hazard. Failure Anne Milton: The requested information is not collected to comply with a statutory notice could lead to a fine of centrally. up to £5,000. Although I keep these matters under constant review Mrs Laing: To ask the Secretary of State for Health we have no plans to review the operation of the Housing (1) what definition the NHS uses of an alcohol-related Health and Safety System or its associated enforcement admission to hospital; [59928] regime. (2) what methodology the NHS uses to determine whether a patient admission to hospital is alcohol- Public Sector: Land related. [59929] Anne Milton: The NHS Information Centre and the Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Secretary of State Department use a common method to estimate alcohol- for Communities and Local Government whether (a) related admissions, based on research undertaken by Peterborough and (b) Cambridgeshire will be included the North West Public Health Observatory (NWPHO). in the pilot scheme for auctions of publicly-owned land The method makes use of the internationally applied in 2011-12; and if he will make a statement. [60602] concept of attributable fractions. In the case of alcohol- related admissions, an attributable fraction represents Robert Neill: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer the estimated percentage of admissions that can be given to the right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline attributed to alcohol consumption. The NWPHO estimated Flint) on 13 May 2011, Official Report, column 1383W. fractions for the 47 conditions for which there was Details of the pilot of the land disposal elements of the sufficient epidemiological evidence that the risk of morbidity land auction model, including potential locations will is affected by alcohol consumption. In some cases, such be announced in due course. as alcoholic liver disease, the conditions are wholly attributable to alcohol, in which case the attributable Rent Service: Red Fish fraction is 1, or 100%. In the case of partially attributable conditions, the fractions often vary by age and sex. The Andrew Griffiths: To ask the Secretary of State for list includes chronic conditions such as some cancers, Communities and Local Government how much the acute conditions such as ethanol poisoning, and external Rent Service spent on services provided by Poisson causes such as road accidents. Rouge/Red Fish Corporation in each of the last five Further details about how the fractions were generated years for which figures are available; for what type of can be found in the NWPHO report “Alcohol-attributable event, and in what locations. [61066] fractions for England: Alcohol-attributable mortality and hospital admissions”, available at: Steve Webb: I have been asked to reply. www.nwph.net/alcohol/lape/nationalindicator.htm 57W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 58W

Further details about how the fractions are applied to Where a move is carried out well, the Department hospital episode data can be found in the report “NI39 expects that there should be no preventable deaths. technical guide”, available at: www.nwph.net/alcohol/lape/nationalindicator.htm Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what responsibility NHS commissioners have for the Ambulance Services: Standards care of vulnerable clients placed into care services. [60158] Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether he plans to bring forward proposals Paul Burstow: National health service commissioners to improve response times of ambulances in are responsible for including in the contracts they make metropolitan cities. [59966] with providers terms to ensure that high quality services are delivered for patients and that value is delivered for Mr Simon Burns: The Department has examined the the taxpayer. They are also responsible for making sure whole area of targets, including those in the ambulance that providers are registered with the Care Quality service, to put patient safety, experience and outcomes Commission. at the centre of the national health service. Plans to strengthen the Category A (immediately life-threatening), Care Homes: Standards eight-minute response time target are currently being considered, but there are no separate plans to centrally Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State review response times for ambulances in metropolitan for Health if he will assess the effectiveness of the Care cities. Each trust must ensure and be able to demonstrate Quality Commission in regulating the standard of care that it has regard to the reasonable needs of persons in homes; and if he will make a statement. [59967] the whole of the area to which the trust must ordinarily provide goods and services. Paul Burstow: The Department monitors the Care Quality Commission’s (CQC’s) financial and operational Care Homes performance and risks through regular formal accountability meetings. Regular meetings are also held Frank Dobson: To ask the Secretary of State for between both Ministers and the Permanent Secretary Health if he will estimate the likely change in the level and chief executive of the national health service and of preventable deaths resulting from vulnerable people the chair and chief executive of the CQC, as well as being moved out of residential care to which they are meetings at officials’ level. accustomed. [60065] The CQC is responsible for assessing and ensuring the quality of its inspection and monitoring of specific Paul Burstow: The Department appreciates that it providers on a day to day basis. The CQC’s annual can be traumatic for some frail, older or vulnerable accounts and annual report are laid before Parliament people if they have to be moved from residential care and it is publicly accountable through parliamentary homes, which have become their true homes. scrutiny, including Select Committees. The decision to close a care home is taken either by To ensure the social care system of the future is fit for the local council or, if it is an independent home, the purpose, the forthcoming social care White Paper will proprietor(s). The Department is concerned that any explore the place of regulation alongside other mechanisms decision to close a home should be dealt with as sensitively in driving quality improvement in social care. This will and appropriately as possible. It is essential that proper include a discussion of the opportunities presented to arrangements are made for the safe and satisfactory refine and strengthen the CQC’s role as a quality transfer of residents to other suitable homes. inspectorate in this new system. Residents and their families should be fully involved in and consulted during the process. Adequate time Care Quality Commission: Finance should be allowed, so that residents and their relatives can make decisions and arrangements in a way that minimises stress. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what recent representations he has received Local authorities are experienced at moving care on the provision of funding for the Care Quality home residents and understand that any such moves Commission. [60770] should be well planned and sensitively carried out. The Mental Capacity Act requires that, where a vulnerable person lacks capacity and has no family involved in Mr Simon Burns: The Care Quality Commission their care, Independent Mental Capacity Advocate should (CQC) has a budget settlement for 2011-12 that has be appointed to represent their interests. been agreed with the Department. The CQC’s financial position is kept under constant review during the financial On 8 June, the university of Birmingham published a year and Ministers and officials meet with the CQC on guide on care home closures, entitled “Achieving closure: a regular basis. Funding is discussed as necessary. Good practice in supporting older people during residential care closures”. The report was commissioned by the The CQC made representations to the Department Association of Directors of Adult Social Services and regarding the provision of funding as part of the 2011-12 has gone to every focal authority in England. It is budget setting process. available on the university of Birmingham website at: The hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/latest/2011/06/08June Hamilton) has asked a written parliamentary question CareReport.aspx on the subject. 59W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 60W

Departmental records show that, since 1 April 2011, A variety of factors are considered in determining we have received one item of correspondence about the the response to each meeting request. provision of funding for the CQC from a member of the public. This figure represents correspondence received by the Department’s central correspondence team only. Departmental Procurement

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for for Health if he will assess the effect of funding Health what progress his Department has made in allocated by his Department on the capacity of the encouraging small businesses to bid for Government Care Quality Commission to meet inspection demand contracts. [60187] in the last 12 months; and if he will make a statement. [60820] Mr Simon Burns: This Department has fully effected the transparency requirements on procurement which Mr Simon Burns: The Care Quality Commission now apply to all central Departments under this (CQC) is the independent regulator of health and adult Government. These include: social care providers in England. It is therefore for the CQC to determine how it delivers its regulatory functions, all new central Government tender documents for contracts over £10,000 to be published on a single website from September including the capacity it requires in order to carry out 2010, with this information to be made available to the public its inspection functions efficiently and effectively. free of charge; and Each year, the CQC agrees its business plan and all new central Government ICT contracts over £10,000 to be financial allocation with the Department. Its financial published in full online from July 2010. position is then kept under constant review during the The publication of these documents takes place on financial year. Contracts Finder, which is a Government-wide website implemented by the Cabinet Office. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State As all Departments are required to do, this Department for Health how much funding his Department expects has also agreed in May of this year its own small and to allocate to the Care Quality Commission in each of medium-sized businesses (SME) action plan with the the next five years. [60769] Cabinet Office, which sets out specific steps to engage more with and help SMEs. This has now been published. Mr Simon Burns: The Care Quality Commission These measures are all to ensure that SMEs have good (CQC) has an initial 2011-12 revenue budget settlement notice of all tender opportunities and that they can of £50 million from the Department. The CQC has also compete on an equal footing for public sector contracts, estimated that fees due from registered providers in helping to achieve the Government’s aspiration to award 2011-12 will amount to £92 million. The Department 25% of Government contracts to SMEs. will shortly confirm the CQC’s initial 2011-12 budget for capital and associated revenue charges. A copy of the action plan has been place in the The CQC’s financial position is kept under constant Library and is available at: review during the financial year. www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/ documents/digitalasset/dh_127337.pdf Funding for the CQC for 2012-13, and beyond, will be considered in due course. Figures from the Department’s central procurements database show that for the financial year just ended, Care Quality Commission: Manpower 2010-11, the Department awarded 27.6% of contracts to SMEs. The Department will be monitoring the proportion of contracts awarded to SMEs over the Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State coming year. for Health if he will take steps to increase the number of inspectors employed by the Care Quality Commission; and if he will make a statement. [60771] Doctors: Foreign Workers Mr Simon Burns: The Care Quality Commission (CQC) is the independent regulator of health and adult Alison McGovern: To ask the Secretary of State for social care providers in England. It is therefore for the Health what assessment he has made of the effects on CQC to determine how it delivers its regulatory functions, the Medical Training Initiative of a reduction in the including the staffing complement it requires in order to length of Tier 5 (temporary worker) visas from two carry out its functions efficiently and effectively. years to 12 months. [60744]

Departmental Ministerial Responsibility Anne Milton: The Secretary of State for Health, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire Tony Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (Mr Lansley), recognises the value of the Medical Training what information his Department holds on the number Initiative (MTI) and the necessity to allow sufficient of meeting requests from hon. Members which its Ministers time for all parties to capitalise on the benefits of the (a) agreetoand(b) refuse; and what criteria are used scheme. in determining the outcome of a request. [61006] The Department is working closely with the Home Office and stakeholders to put forward the case for Mr Simon Burns: Records of written meeting requests, maintaining an effective MTI scheme that allows the and responses, are held on the Department’s correspondence national health service to contribute to the training and database. development of international doctors. 61W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 62W

Health: Screening The Government consider that the existing regulatory framework is fundamentally sound, striking an appropriate Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for Health balance between fostering innovation and ensuring patient how many people have been seen under the NHS safety. The recast is an opportunity to address issues of Health Check programme in each primary care trust variability across member states; by improving the oversight area since April 2009. [59934] of notified bodies, ensuring uniform high standards of conformity assessment and strengthening post-market Mr Simon Burns: For 2009-10, we do not have the surveillance, all of which will have an impact on the data requested. Based on strategic health authority scrutiny of high risk medical devices. (SHA) estimates, approximately one million NHS Health Check-type checks were offered to people and about 700,000 were delivered in that year. The programme was included in the 2009-10 and Mental Health Services: Prisons 2010-11 NHS Operating Framework, but it was for local implementation and not national performance management. This meant that primary care trusts (PCTs) Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Health could decide locally when to start implementing the how much his Department expects to spend on programme. In addition, there have been issues with measures to improve the mental health of prisoners in establishing a new data collection and ensuring that each year of the comprehensive spending review reporting on the programme has been accurate. We period. [59895] estimate that during 2010-11 approximately 1.4 million checks were offered and about 820,000 were delivered. Paul Burstow: National health service primary care In 2011-12, the programme has a supporting measure trusts have been responsible for commissioning offender in the 2011-12 NHS Operating Framework. This has health services for their offender population since 2006. enabled us to work closely with SHAs to ensure that Therefore, the distribution of funding for mental health PCTs’ plans for implementing the programme are aimed services for prisoners will be determined locally by at reaching 18% of their eligible cohort and that the NHS primary care trusts who will take into account the data they return are of better quality. This will enable needs of their offender population based on Joint Strategic the data on the number of NHS Health Checks carried Needs Assessments. out to be published on a quarterly basis from Quarter 1 of 2011-12 onwards. The Government’s spending review committed us to taking forward proposals to invest in mental health Hospitals: Private Finance Initiative diversion services at police stations and courts to intervene at an early stage, diverting offenders with mental health problems away from the justice system and into treatment Jason McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for where appropriate. These services will be rolled out Health if he will take steps to exclude from the provisions nationally over the spending review period, subject to of contracts under the private finance initiative charges business case approval. to charitable organisations for the maintenance of wall- mounted items donated to NHS hospitals. [60143] At a joint Health and Criminal Justice Programme/ Revolving Doors Agency conference in March, I announced Mr Simon Burns: Private finance initiative contracts a programme of diversion pathfinder sites, supported are held between a private sector consortium and the with a £5 million investment in the coming year: national health service procuring authority, which incurs £3 million investment in 40 adult diversion sites in 2011-12; the charges for services delivered under the contract. It working with 20 of these diversion pathfinders to help build is for the NHS body to agree at a local level the the business case for diversion; and affordability and value for money case of any additional £2 million towards up to 60 youth sites for diversion, and charges which it may incur under the contract through extending pilots to other areas of the country. working with other third-party organisations such as charitable bodies.

Medical Equipment: EU Action NHS: Reorganisation Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Health if he will discuss with his EU counterparts steps to Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health improve the scrutiny of high risk medical devices. pursuant to the answer of 9 June 2011, Official Report, [60843] column 442W, on NHS: reorganisation, what the (a) location and (b) date was of each of the listening Mr Simon Burns: The European Commission have events he attended. [59980] indicated that they intend to bring forward proposals to recast the existing medical devices directives (covering medical devices, active implantable medical devices and Mr Simon Burns: As part of the listening exercise, the in vitro diagnostic medical devices) in early 2012. The ministerial team, along with members of the NHS Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency Future Forum, have visited every region in the country is actively involved in discussions with the Commission attending around 200 listening events, to listen to views and other member states in advance of formal proposals of the public, staff and patients. The Secretary of State being adopted. attended 35 of these events: 63W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 64W

Number of events Date Title of meeting Location

1 13 April 2011 Royal College of Nursing Congress—listening session Liverpool 2 19 April 2011 Foundation Trust Network listening roundtable London 3 19 April 2011 Listening meeting British Medical Association London 4 20 April 2011 Listening visit—Bedford Hospital Bedford 5 27 April 2011 Listening Visit to South Westminster Commissioning London Consortium 6 3 May 2011 Listening event with Bishops London 7 3 May 2011 Bishops Listening Event London 8 3 May 2011 Listening meeting with Faculty of Public Health London 9 3 May 2011 Listening Lunch with Lords Peers London 10 9 May 2011 Listening meeting with Royal College of GPs London 11 9 May 2011 Trade Union Listening event London 12 10 May 2011 Ageing Population conference—National Council of Palliative London Care—listening session 13 10 May 2011 Workforce education/leadership event—Delivering the London Healthcare Workforce consultation—listening event 14 10 May 2011 Monitor listening meeting London 15 11 May 2011 UK Medical Students Association—listening meeting Bournemouth 16 12 May 2011 Listening Event at Royal National Orthopaedic Hospital London 17 12 May 2011 Clinical Fellows Event—National Leadership Council listening London event 18 12 May 2011 NHS Employers Diversity Partners—listening event London 19 12 May 2011 Nottinghamshire GP Principia Listening event Nottingham 20 13 May 2011 Association of Surgeons of Great Britain and Ireland— Bournemouth Conference listening event 21 17 May 2011 Listening event with Lords Peers London 22 17 May 2011 Voluntary Sector and Social Enterprise listening meeting London 23 17 May 2011 Listening Meeting for Neurological Charities London 24 17 May 2011 Listening Meeting with Chief Nursing Officer nurses and Allied London Health Professionals 25 17 May 2011 Listening event with Rethink Charities London 26 17 May 2011 Listening session at the National Council for Palliative Care London 27 18 May 2011 Kings Fund Leadership Conference—listening session London 28 19 May 2011 East Anglia Cancer Network—listening session Norwich 29 19 May 2011 Academy of Royal Colleges—council meeting—Listening London session 30 19 May 2011 Patient listening Event with Health Charity Coalition London 31 20 May 2011 Listening visit to Papworth Hospital Visit Papworth 32 20 May 2011 Listening Event at University Hospital of South Manchester Manchester NHS Foundation Trust, North West 33 24 May 2011 GP Pathfinder event—listening session London 34 24 May 2011 Listening event with Lords Peers London 35 24 May 2011 Listening session at London wide GP commissioning council London

Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Future Forum members. In addition, the Future Forum pursuant to the answer of 9 June 2011, Official Report, leads made a number of public statements during the column 442W, on NHS: reorganisation, what the (a) listening exercise about the ideas coming out of the location and (b) date was of each of the listening process. events. [59981] This enabled preparatory work to be undertaken in advance of the Government’s response, including exploring Mr Simon Burns: As part of the listening exercise, the potential amendments with Parliamentary Counsel. ministerial team, along with members of the NHS Final decisions about policy changes—and subsequent Future Forum, have attended around 200 listening events, amendments—were made at Cabinet on 14 June. to listen to views of the public, staff and patients. A copy of the NHS listening exercise table of events has been placed in the Library. Oil

Ian Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Stephen Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for on what date officials from his Department instructed Health what plans his Department has to address the Parliamentary Counsel to draft amendments to the challenges posed by peak oil. [60098] Health and Social Care Bill to take account of the outcome of the NHS Future Forum consultation. [60818] Mr Simon Burns: The issues posed by peak oil will affect all sectors of the economy including the national Mr Simon Burns: Ministers were actively involved in health service. The NHS will embrace Government the listening exercise talking to a wide range of patients, strategies to manage any challenges resulting in a peak staff and stakeholders, as well as meeting with the oil situation. The NHS is engaged in the Government’s 65W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 66W strategy to meet the challenge of reducing and controlling (2) what assessment his Department has made of the the use of energy consistent with delivering high quality physical, mental and economic effect of psoriasis on patient care. patients who are unable to work at times due to the condition. [60962] Perinatal Mortality Paul Burstow: The Department has made no formal Chris Heaton-Harris: To ask the Secretary of State assessment of the impact of psoriasis on patients but it for Health (1) what steps he plans to take to reduce the fully recognises the importance of ensuring that patients incidence of perinatal mortality and stillbirth; [59933] receive the right care and support. In October 2009, the (2) pursuant to the contribution of the Minister of Department and the Welsh Assembly Government formally State for Health of 18 May 2011, Official Report, requested the National Institute for Health and Clinical column 106WH, on stillbirth, what steps he plans to Excellence to prepare a clinical guideline on psoriasis. take to reduce stillbirths. [59978] Respite Care: Finance Anne Milton: The Government have made reducing perinatal mortality, including stillbirth, an improvement Mr Charles Walker: To ask the Secretary of State for area under domain one of the NHS Outcomes Framework Health what plans he has for the administration of for 2011-12. To support the national health service in funds for short respite breaks for carers following the improving outcomes in pregnancy, labour and immediately proposed abolition of primary care trusts; and if he after birth, the National Institute for Health and Clinical will make a statement. [61007] Excellence will develop new quality standards, based on the best available evidence, on antenatal care, intrapartum Paul Burstow: The Department is making an additional care and postnatal care. £400 million available for carers’ breaks between 2011-15. The Department encourages early access to maternity The “NHS Operating Framework 2011/12” states services and has included the maternity 12-week early that: access indicator as one of the measures for quality in ″It has not always been apparent how funding to support the NHS Operating Framework for 2011-12. This will carers has been used in each PCT. The Spending Review has made facilitate the dissemination of public health advice on available additional funding in PCT baselines to support the how to minimise the risk of stillbirth and enable those provision of breaks for carers. PCTs should pool budgets with women who can be identified as being at increased risk local authorities to provide carers’ breaks, as far as possible, via to receive additional support and monitoring. direct payments or personal health budgets. For 2011/12, PCTs should agree policies, plans and budgets to support carers with The Department also continues to invest in research. local authorities and local carers’ organisations, and make them A major focus of the Department’s National Institute available to local people.” for Health Research programme on women’s health is This funding is currently available in primary care understanding the factors linked to stillbirth and to use trust (PCT) allocations. Following the abolition of PCTs that information to improve the clinical care of pregnant in 2013, subject to the passage of the Health and Social women. Care Bill, we expect that the money will be held by the new Clinical Commissioning Groups. Primary Care Trusts: Warrington Safety of Blood, Tissues and Organs Advisory Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Committee what consultations were undertaken prior to the merger of Warrington primary care trust with other primary care trusts in Cheshire; where and in what Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the Secretary of State for form such consultations took place; and if he will place Health (1) with reference to the answer to Baroness in the Library a copy of each response received to the Masham of Ilton of 31 March 2011, Official Report, consultations. [60951] column WA301,on health: contaminated blood products, what measures he plans to put in place to safeguard the Mr Simon Burns: Primary care trusts (PCTs) across independence of the committee of experts which will England have come together to form PCT clusters to supersede the Advisory Committee on the Safety of ensure that they can sustain management capacity and Blood, Tissues and Organs from 2012; [61048] continue to deliver their responsibilities until PCTs are (2) what plans he has for the constitution of the abolished in April 2013, subject to parliamentary approval committee of experts which will supersede the Advisory of the Health and Social Care Bill. Committee on the Safety of Blood, Tissues and Organs These clusters are not statutory bodies and do not from 2012; [61049] replace PCTs, which will continue to exist. No formal (3) on what basis the programme of work will be consultation was required to create them but the strategic decided for the committee of experts which will supersede health authority engaged with key stakeholders, including the Advisory Committee on the Safety of Blood, Tissues writing to Members of Parliament in February 2011. and Organs from 2012. [61050]

Psoriasis Anne Milton: The terms of reference and membership of the Advisory Committee on the Safety of Blood, Sir Paul Beresford: To ask the Secretary of State for Tissues and Organs (SaBTO) will remain unchanged. Health (1) what assessment his Department has made SaBTO will continue to provide independent advice to of the care pathway for psoriasis patients; and if he will United Kingdom Departments, and its work programme make a statement; [60961] will continue to be set in agreement between the Health 67W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 68W

Departments and the Committee. The only change is in I last had discussions with Gwenda Thomas, AM, its designation, and by 2012 SaBTO will be designated a Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services in the Department of Health expert committee. Welsh Government, on 14 June 2011.

Scotland Tobacco Free Lancashire: Finance

Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Mark Menzies: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what proportion of contracts issued by (a) his Health how much funding from the public purse was Department and (b) agencies for which he is responsible allocated to Tobacco Free Lancashire in financial year were awarded to small and medium-sized enterprises in (a) 2008-09, (b) 2009-10, (c) 2010-11 and (d) 2011-12 (i) Scotland, (ii) South Lanarkshire and (iii) Rutherglen to date. [60952] and Hamilton West constituency in the latest period for which figures are available. [60202] Anne Milton: This information is not collected centrally. Mr Simon Burns: For financial year 2010-11 the Tobacco Free Lancashire is a multi-agency group proportion of contracts awarded by the Department to which includes representatives from primary care trusts, small and medium-sized businesses which supplied addresses local authorities and fire services among others, who for Scotland was 1.1%. No contracts were awarded to use their own existing resources to work on joint projects such businesses which supplied addresses for the areas to tackle particular aspects of tobacco control locally. of South Lanarkshire or Rutherglen and Hamilton West. Transplant Surgery To conduct a similar search and analysis for the Department’s agency (the Medicines and Healthcare Margot James: To ask the Secretary of State for products Regulatory Agency) would incur a Health (1) how many (a) heart, (b) liver, (c) lung, (d) disproportionate cost due to the nature of their information kidney and (e) other organ transplants were performed technology systems. privately by each NHS foundation trust on patients from (i) the UK, (ii) the EU and (iii) outside the EU in Southern Cross Healthcare Services: Care Homes the latest period for which figures are available; [60227] (2) how many NHS patients are on a waiting list for Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Health a (a) heart, (b) liver, (c) lung, (d) kidney and (e) what recent discussions he has had with (a) local other organ transplant. [60231] authorities and (b) the Care Quality Commission on ensuring appropriate standards of care in homes run by Anne Milton: Information is not held centrally on Southern Cross; and if he will make a statement. [61058] how many organ transplants were performed privately by each NHS foundation trust. Paul Burstow: It is for the Care Quality Commission The number of national health service patients on the (CQC) as regulator of health and social care services, to national waiting list for a heart, liver, lung, kidney and ensure that the care provided in all care homes meets other organ transplants is provided in the following essential standards of quality and safety. The CQC will table. pay particular attention to any care homes where there is a concern that quality may be at risk or inadequate. Transplant type Total

As I stated to the House on 16 June 2011, Official Kidney 6,445 Report, column 928, I have asked the CQC to undertake Pancreas. 35 additional inspections to address concerns arising from Kidney/pancreas 207 the 3,000 proposed job losses at Southern Cross. Pancreas islets 24 The Department is working closely with the Association Heart 129 of Directors of Adult Social Services, the Local Lung 206 Government Association, local authorities and the CQC Heart/lung 13 to ensure that contingency plans are in place which will Liver 478 allow for the continuation of care under any eventuality. Other (multi-organ) 28 There are frequent discussions between the parties involved. Total 7,565 Note: Southern Cross Healthcare: Wales The table provides activity figures for the United Kingdom as at 9 June 2011 Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for Source: Health what discussions he has had with Ministers in NHS Blood and Transplant the Welsh Government on Southern Cross care homes. [59953] CABINET OFFICE Paul Burstow: Departmental officials are in regular contact with their counterparts in the devolved Administrations regarding this issue. I have spoken Cabinet Committees with all United Kingdom Ministers responsible for the matter to ensure a consistent and effective response Mr Spellar: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet across the country. We will continue to talk as the need Office on how many occasions the Coalition arises. Committee has met since May 2010. [61127] 69W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 70W

Mr Maude: Cabinet Committee meetings enable Departmental Procurement Ministers to discuss issues freely in private in accordance with the principle of collective responsibility, and the Ministerial Code (paragraph 2.3) requires that Julian Smith: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet “the internal process through which a decision has been made, Office what progress he has made on encouraging small or the level of Committee by which it was taken should not be businesses to bid for Government contracts. [60265] disclosed” . It is therefore longstanding practice not to disclose Mr Maude: Further to the answer that I gave to the details of the number of times each Committee has met hon. Member for Stroud (Neil Carmichael) and the or the issues discussed. hon. Member for Bromsgrove (Sajid Javid) on 13 May 2011, Official Report, column 1365W: Death: Cancer By the week commencing 6 June 2011, we had published 1,477 procurement opportunities on Contracts Finder, with registrations Mrs Laing: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet from 1,801 supplier organisations. Office how many and what proportion of deaths from cancer in the last three years were of people who were Opportunities suitable for SMEs are now being flagged on (a) teetotallers, (b) moderate drinkers and (c) heavy Contracts Finder. drinkers. [59927] The Cabinet Office has either published on Contracts Finder or is preparing for publication, 100% of tenders issued since Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the September 2010 and contracts awarded since January 2011. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have 351 business proposals were submitted to the Innovation Launch asked the authority to reply. Pad and have been evaluated. Those companies that submitted Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2011: the top ideas will pitch their products to Government on 19 July. As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I On 3 June I published on the Cabinet Office website specific have been asked to reply to your recent question asking how many action plans from all Departments to facilitate SME access to and what proportion of deaths from cancer were in the last three their procurement requirements: years of people who were (a) teetotallers, (b) moderate drinkers www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/content/small-and-medium- and (c) heavy drinkers. (59927) enterprise-sme-action-plans The table attached provides the number of deaths where cancer The Crown Representative for SMEs, Stephen Allott, is working was the underlying cause, in England and Wales, for 2007 to 2009 with Departments to plan a series of SME Product Surgeries, (the latest year available). which will increase constructive engagement between SMEs and However, it is not possible to provide the specific information Government. requested. Lifestyle and behavioural factors, such as the deceased’s alcohol consumption, are not recorded in the death registration. The number of deaths registered in England and Wales each EU Law year by sex, age, cause, marital status, and place of death are published annually on the National Statistics website at: www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=15096 Julian Smith: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Table 1. Number of deaths where cancer was the underlying cause, Office for what European directives in force on 1 April England and Wales, 2007 to 20091, 2, 3 2010 his Department is responsible; and what European Deaths (persons) directives for which his Department is responsible have come into force since 1 April 2010. [60684] 2007 136,804 2008 137,831 2009 137,420 Mr Maude: The Cabinet Office is responsible for the 1 Cause of death for cancer was defined using the International following directives in force on 1 April 2010: Classification of Diseases, Tenth Revision (ICD-10) codes C00-C97. 2 Council directive 89/665/EEC of 21 December 1989 on the Figures for England and Wales include deaths of non-residents. coordination of the laws, regulations and administrative provisions 3 Figures are for deaths registered in each calendar year. relating to the application of review procedures to the award of Departmental Manpower public supply and public works contracts; Council directive 92/13/EEC of 25 February 1992 coordinating Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Minister for the the laws, regulations and administrative provisions relating to the Cabinet Office if he will make it his policy to publish application of community rules on the procurement procedures monthly information on changes in the numbers of his of entities operating in the water, energy, transport and postal Department’s employees categorised by (a) seniority, services sectors; (b) number of employees taking voluntary redundancy, Directive 2004/17/EC of the European Parliament and of the (c) natural wastage and (d) involuntary redundancy. Council of 31 March 2004 coordinating the procurement procedures [57617] of entities operating in the water, energy, transport and postal services sectors; Mr Maude: The Government are committed to Directive 2004/18/EC of the European Parliament and of the transparency and the availability of data and are currently Council of 31 March 2004 on the coordination of procedures for exploring options for the more frequent publication of the award of public works contracts, public supply contracts and public service contracts. this type of work force management information across the civil service. Directives which have simply amended the above Information about the Cabinet Office that is already directives have not been included separately in the list. in the public domain is published on data.gov.uk at: The Cabinet Office is not responsible for any directives http://data.gov.uk/organogram which have come into force since 1 April 2010. 71W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 72W

Government Departments: Billing Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Mr Denham: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet asked the authority to reply. Office if he will bring forward proposals to ensure that Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2011: Government contractors pay invoices to any As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I subsequent subcontractors on time. [60461] have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking what the average life expectancy is for people aged 65 living in (a) Mr Maude: The Government are determined to do Reading, (b) Berkshire and (c) England. (60984) everything they can to help business manage cash flow Life expectancy figures are calculated as three-year rolling and to transform the culture of late payment. We have a averages and are available for all current administrative areas. target for central Government Departments to pay 80% Figures for the historic county of Berkshire are not available. of valid invoices within five working days of receipt. Table 1, attached, therefore provides figures for all unitary authorities within Berkshire. Figures are for 2007-09, the latest period available. Since 25 March 2010, it has been mandatory for all Period life expectancies at birth and at age 65 for males and Government Departments, agencies, non-departmental females in the UK, constituent countries, regions, counties, and public bodies (NDPBs) (and the bodies over which they local areas, from 1991-93 to 2007-09, are published on the National have direct control) to include a contract condition Statistics website at: requiring their prime contractors to pay their tier two http://www.statistics.gov.uk/statbase/Product.asp?vlnk=8841 suppliers within 30 days. Table 1: Period life expectancy at age 651, unitary authorities within Furthermore, the Government’s “Guide to best ‘Fair Berkshire, and England2, 2007-093 Payment’ practices”, which applies to construction Years of life procurement, recommends best ‘Fair Payment’ principles Area Men Women and practices for adoption in the public sector: England 18 21 www.ogc.gov.uk/documents/Guide_to_Fair_ Payment_Practices.pdf. Berkshire Life Expectancy Reading UA 18 21 Bracknell Forest UA 19 22 Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Slough UA 19 21 Office what the average life expectancy was of (a) West Berkshire UA 19 22 people of Irish ethnicity and (b) the UK population Windsor and 18 21 calculated in (i) 1985, (ii) 1990, (iii) 1995, (iv) 2000, (v) Maidenhead UA 2005 and (vi) 2010. [60347] Wokingham UA 20 22 1 Period life expectancy at age 65 is an estimate of the average number of years a 65 year old would survive if he or she experienced Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the the area’s age-specific mortality rates for that time period responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have throughout the rest of his or her life. The figure reflects mortality asked the authority to reply. among those living in the area in each time period, rather than Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2011: mortality among those born in each area. It is not therefore the number of years a 65 year old living in the area in each time period As Director General for the Office for National Statistics could actually expect to live, both because the death rates of the area (ONS), I have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary are likely to change in the future and because many of those Question, what the average life expectancy was of (a) people of currently living in the area will live elsewhere for at least some part Irish ethnicity and (b) the UK population calculated in (i) 1985, of their lives. (ii) 1990, (iii) 1995, (iv) 2000, (v) 2005 and (vi) 2010. (60347) 2 Based on boundaries as of 2010. 3 The table below gives the average period life expectancy at Three year rolling average, based on deaths registered in each year and mid-year population estimates. birth for males and females in the United Kingdom and in Northern Ireland. Minimum Wage

United Kingdom life Northern Ireland life expectancy at birth expectancy at birth Mr Hepburn: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Male Female Male Female Office how many people were paid at the rate of the national minimum wage in (a) Jarrow constituency, 1985 71.7 77.6 70.6 76.9 (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) the 1990 72.9 78.4 72.1 78.0 UK in each year since 2009. [60973] 1995 74.1 79.3 73.5 78.9 2000 75.3 80.1 74.8 79.8 Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the 2005 76.9 81.3 76.1 81.0 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have 2010 78.5 82.4 77.6 82.2 asked the authority to reply. The ONS does not produce life expectancy figures by ethnic Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2011: group and so it is not possible to provide the average life expectancy As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I of people of Irish ethnicity. have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question asking how many people were paid at the rate of the national Life Expectancy: Older People minimum wage in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) the UK in each year since 2009. (60973) Estimates for the number of employee jobs paid below the Alok Sharma: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet national minimum wage are not available below the regional level Office what the average life expectancy is for people of disaggregation. The table below gives the information requested aged 65 living in (a) Reading, (b) Berkshire and (c) for the North East and the UK in April 2009 and 2010. April 2010 England. [60984] is the latest period for which figures are available. 73W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 74W

A guide to measuring low pay and associated articles can be Mr Hurd: I will reply to the hon. Member as soon as found on the National Statistics website at: possible. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/Product.asp?vlnk=5837 Substantive answer from Nick Hurd to Bernard Jenkin: Estimates of jobs paid below the National Minimum Wage for the The Government regularly takes account of a wide range of North East and the UK in April 2009 and April 2010 views from across society in respect of public services, including 2009 2010 both users and providers. This information is gathered from a Thousand Percentage Thousand Percentage number of existing sources, including market and opinion research. However, no new research on this topic has been conducted or North **13 **1.2 **11 **1.2 commissioned by the Cabinet Office since the formation of this East Government. UK 237 0.9 271 1.1 The Open Public Services White Paper, due to be published Guide to quality: this summer, will set out the Government’s programme for public The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of a figure, the services over the next few years. The Government will consult and smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to engage those who are or could be delivering public services about lie within +/- twice the CV—for example, for an average of 200 with a the best ways to achieve the Government’s ambitions, and prioritise CV of 5%, we would expect the population average to be within the and pace its reforms to ensure that it balances the public’s need range 180 to 220. for change with the capacity of public service providers to deliver Key: any changes. CV <= 5% *CV>5%and<=10% Unemployment ** CV >10% and <= 20% Source: Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), Office for National Mr Hepburn: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Statistics Office what the average unemployment rate of the working age population in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) Older Workers: Scotland South Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) the UK was in each year since 2008. [61035] Mr Donohoe: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office what recent estimate he has made of the Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the proportion of the workforce in Scotland that is aged responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have over 60. [60587] asked the authority to reply. Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2011: Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question, asking asked the authority to reply. what the average unemployment rate of the working age population Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2011: in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) the UK was in each year since 2008. (61035) As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question on what Table 1, attached, shows the unemployment rate of persons recent estimate he has made of the proportion of the workforce in aged 16 to 64 resident in (a) Jarrow constituency, (b) South Scotland that is aged over 60 years. (060587) Tyneside, (c) the North East and (d) the UK, based on the Annual Population Survey (APS). Figures have been provided for the 12 The proportion of economically active people in Scotland month periods ending December 2008, December 2009 and September aged 60 and over was 7.4 per cent, based on Annual Population 2010, the most recent period for which figures are available. Survey (APS) for the period October 2009 to September 2010, which is the latest period for which estimates are available. Table 1: Unemployment rate in Jarrow constituency, South Tyneside, As with any sample survey, estimates from APS are subject to a the North East and the UK margin of uncertainty. Percentage National and local area estimates for many labour market 12 months statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant ending December 2008 December 2009 December 2010 count are available on the NOMIS website at: Jarrow 5.9 7.9 11.5 http://www.nomisweb.co.uk South 7.2 12.7 13.3 Tyneside Third Sector North East 7.6 9.8 9.9 UK 5.8 7.8 7.8 Chris Ruane: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Source: Office pursuant to the answer of 10 May 2011, Official Annual Population Survey Report, column 1173W, on the third sector, on which As with any sample survey, estimates from the APS, dates the 29 meetings his Department has convened are subject to a margin of uncertainty. with hon. Members and their VCSE groups took place; National and local area estimates for many labour and which (a) hon. Members, (b) Ministers and (c) market statistics, including employment, unemployment organisations were present at each meeting. [56627] and claimant count are available on the NOMIS website at Mr Hurd: A full record of attendees at each meeting http://www.nomisweb.co.uk is not held centrally. Mr Hepburn: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mr Jenkin: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Office how many (a) men, (b) women and (c) single what (a) market and (b) opinion research his Department parents were (i) in employment and (ii) unemployed in has (i) conducted and (ii) commissioned on public (A) Jarrow constituency, (B) South Tyneside, (C) the expectations of Government in respect of provision of North East and (D) the UK in each year since 2008. public services in the context of the Big Society. [60271] [61036] 75W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 76W

Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the the 12 month periods ending December 2008, December 2009 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have and September 2010, the most recent period for which figures are asked the authority to reply. available. Figures for single parents are available only for 12 month periods ending in December 2008 and 2009. As with any sample Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2011: survey, estimates from the APS, are subject to a margin of As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I uncertainty. have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking how many (a) men, (b) women and (c) single parents were (i) in National and local area estimates for many labour market employment and (ii) unemployed in (A) Jarrow constituency, (B) statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant South Tyneside, (C) the North East and (D) the UK in each year count are available on the NOMIS website at: since 2008. (61036) http://www.nomisweb.co.uk Based on the Annual Population Survey (APS), Tables 1&2 show the information requested. Figures have been provided for

Table 1: Employment in Jarrow constituency, South Tyneside, the North East and the UK Thousand 12 months ending December 2008 December 2009 September 2010 Single Single Single Male Female parent Male Female parent Male Female parent

Jarrow 20 20 n/s 19 18 ****n/s ***18 ***19 1— South Tyneside 34 32 3 33 31 ***3 ***32 ***32 1— North East 612 545 47 589 537 **50 *593 *542 1— UK 16,764 13,452 1,068 15,421 13,374 *1,093 *15,423 *13,407 1— n/s = Data has not been supplied as it has been classified as unreliable. 1 Figures for single parents are only available for the 12 month periods ending in December. Note: Coefficients of Variation have been calculated for the latest period as an indication of the quality of the estimates. See Guide to Quality below. Guide to Quality: The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of an estimate, the smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to lie within +/- twice the CV—for example, for an estimate of 200 with a CV of 5 per cent. we would expect the population total to be within the range 180-220 Key: *0≤ CV<5%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered precise ** 5 ≤ CV <10%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered reasonably precise *** 10 ≤ CV <20%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered acceptable **** CV ≥ 20%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered too unreliable for practical purposes CV = Coefficient of Variation Source: Annual Population Survey Table 2: Unemployment in Jarrow constituency, South Tyneside, the North East and the UK Thousand 12 months ending December 2008 December 2009 September 2010 Single Single Male Female parent Male Female Single parent Male Female parent

Jarrow n/s n/s n/s n/s n/s ****n/s ****n/s ****n/s 1— South Tyneside n/s n/s n/s n/s n/s ****n/s ****n/s ****n/s 1— North East 53 41 8 74 45 ***9 **78 **45 1— UK 1,027 738 140 1,448 939 *172 *1,459 *932 1— n/s = data has not been supplied as it has been classified as unreliable. 1 Figures for single parents are only available for the 12 month periods ending in December. Note: Coefficients of Variation have been calculated for the latest period as an indication of the quality of the estimates. See Guide to Quality below. Guide to Quality: The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of an estimate, the smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to lie within +/- twice the CV—for example, for an estimate of 200 with a CV of 5 per cent. we would expect the population total to be within the range 180-220 Key: *0≤ CV<5%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered precise ** 5 ≤ CV <10%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered reasonably precise *** 10 ≤ CV <20%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered acceptable **** CV ≥ 20%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered too unreliable for practical purposes CV = Coefficient of Variation Source: Annual Population Survey

TREASURY Mr Hoban [holding answer 20 December 2010]: Fractional reserve banking is a term to describe how the modern banking system operates. Fractional reserve Bank Services banking means that only a fraction of banks deposits are backed by actual cash on hand and available for withdrawal. A non-fractional reserve banking system : To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer would operate on the basis that where a deposit was whether he has made an assessment of the likely effects lodged in a bank, the bank would safeguard this deposit, on industry of the ending of fractional reserve usually by placing in a vault. It would do nothing with banking. [31869] the money and would charge a fee for the service. 77W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 78W

Banking capital requirement guidelines are set by the every year, as part of its country surveillance function, Basel Committee on Banking Supervision. In November under Article IV of the IMF’s Articles of Agreement. 2010, G20 Leaders endorsed the “Basel III” reform IMF staff visited London in late May and early June package proposed by the Committee. The package will and met with various institutions, including HM Treasury, more than triple the amount of high quality capital to discuss issues relating to the economy. The IMF banks will be required to hold, helping them to survive published the concluding statement for this Article IV losses and continue to lend. Ending the fractional reserve consultation on 6 June. The IMF concluded that: banking system has not been considered as a viable “The current settings of fiscal and monetary policy remain policy option for the UK economy; no assessment of appropriate”. the likely effects on industry has been made. The concluding statement can be found on the IMF’s Banks website at: http://www.imf.org/external/np/ms/2011/060611.htm Stuart Andrew: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) what requirements exist for banks to recognise deputies European Investment Bank: North Africa appointed by the Court of Protection; [41257] (2) what requirements exist for banks to recognise Mr Douglas Alexander: To ask the Chancellor of the the carers of disabled customers. [41258] Exchequer what assessment he has made of the proposals by the UN High Representative for Foreign Affairs for Mr Hoban [holding answer 16 February 2011]: Under greater investment in North Africa from the European the Equality Act 2010, service providers, including high Investment Bank following recent political changes. street banks, must make reasonable adjustments for [48335] disabled people in the way they deliver their services. This may include allowing the carer or the deputy to act Mr Hoban: The proposals made by the EU High for the disabled person. Service providers must not Representative for Foreign Affairs provided the European discriminate against disabled persons as to the terms on Council, meeting on 24-25 March with a sound basis which they offer services, by not providing the service or for a thorough and detailed discussion of how the EU subjecting the disabled person to any other detriment. can best help the region following recent political turmoil.

Child Benefit: EU Nationals Excise Duties: Fuels

Mr Hollobone: To ask the Chancellor of the Barry Gardiner: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he is taking with his EU Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effects counterparts to reform the payment of child benefit to of the fuel duty derogation for those who refine less non-UK EU nationals whose children live outside the than 2,500 litres of biodiesel per year. [60644] UK. [60950]

Justine Greening: I refer the hon. Member to the Justine Greening: The small producers’ biofuel duty reply I gave to the hon. Member for North East exemption was introduced in 2007 and continues to Cambridgeshire (Stephen Barclay) on 25 November offer effective tax relief to low volume biofuel producers. 2010, Official Report, columns 444-45W. The Chancellor keeps all taxes under review along Budget timelines. Double Taxation: Israel Financial Policy Committee Mr Slaughter: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 8 June 2011, Official Report, Mr Darling: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer column 325W,on double taxation: Israel, what mechanisms (1) what the conclusions were of the informal meeting are in place to exclude income and company tax raised of the Financial Policy Committee of the Bank of in settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories or England held in May 2011; and if he will make a Golan Heights from the benefits of the 1962 Double statement; [61000] Taxation Convention. [60550] (2) what the schedule of meetings is of the Financial Mr Gauke: Claims for the benefit of the double Policy Committee of the Bank of England; and if he taxation convention from persons claiming to be resident will publish its minutes and proceedings after each in Israel are checked to ensure that their residential meeting. [61001] address is not within the Occupied Palestinian Territories or Golan Heights. Mr Hoban: The informal meetings of the interim Financial Policy Committee (FPC) held in May 2011 Economic Situation were preparatory meetings for the formal interim FPC meeting held on 16 June 2011. A record of that meeting Mr Ellwood: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer will be published on 24 June 2011. what assessment he has made of the recent report by The interim FPC will meet at least four times a year. the IMF on the state of the UK economy. [60124] The next formal meeting of the interim FPC will be held in September 2011; the date of the meeting will be Justine Greening [holding answer 16 June 2011]: The published on 24 June, with the record of the meeting International Monetary Fund (IMF) holds bilateral held on 16 June. A record will be published after each discussions with each of its member countries, usually formal meeting. 79W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 80W

Financial Services Authority Government Procurement Card

Mr Love: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Charlie Elphicke: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what objectives he has set for the working forum of what the (a) date of purchase, (b) gross amount, (c) mutual trade bodies to input collectively into the policy level 3 line item detail and (d) supplier was in respect of formulation process of the Financial Services each transaction undertaken by the Valuation Office Authority; and if he will make a statement. [60217] Agency using the Government Procurement Card in (i) 2008-09 and (ii) 2009-10. [59213] Mr Hoban: This is a matter for the Financial Services Authority and the members of the forum. I understand Mr Gauke: Tables have been placed in the Library that the objectives for the forum will be agreed when it showing the spending by the Valuation Office Agency meets for the first time later this year. (VOA) from the Government Procurement Cards (GPC) in 2008-09 and 2009-10. The tables list the dates of transactions, the amounts and the suppliers. VOA does Financial Services: City of London not on the whole transact with suppliers with Level 3 detail transactions and any incidence of such transactions would be very small in relation to the overall number of Jonathan Evans: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer transactions and therefore this data is only available at what steps he is taking to support the competitiveness disproportionate cost. of the City of London as a financial centre. [60164] The average annual spend is less than 0.05% of the VOA’s overall spending. Mr Hoban: The Government are committed to a stable, predictable and competitive environment for financial Inflation services and one favourable to business more generally. The Government have taken immediate action to Ian Lavery: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer restore tax competitiveness with a phased reduction in what recent assessment he has made of the effect on the the main rate of corporation tax from 28% to 23% over economy of trends in the rate of inflation. [60518] the next four years. By 2014, and based on current plans, the UK will have the 5th lowest main rate in the Justine Greening: The Government consider a range G20 and will maintain its position as the lowest in the of factors when making their assessment of the UK G7. economy. The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) is responsible for producing independent economic and There are many factors which attract business to the fiscal forecasts. The OBR published a full analysis of UK—a robust and stable legal framework; high standards recent developments and the prospects for growth and of transparency and accounting; excellent infrastructure; inflation in their forecast at Budget, which can be found clustering benefits including associated business such as online at: professional services; a deep and highly skilled talent pool; language; time zone; and quality of life. http://budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/ Ensuring that London retains its position as the Loans: Republic of Ireland preeminent international financial centre is of critical importance to the UK economy. The UK is leading the Frank Dobson: To ask the Chancellor of the argument in the EU and internationally for robust, Exchequer from which UK-based banks he received internationally consistent regulatory standards that will representations on financial assistance to Ireland. benefit the economy and make the financial sector more [60425] stable. Strong regulation and effective supervision will increase investor confidence, supporting the competitive Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers and officials have position of the city. discussions with a wide variety of organisations in the public and private sectors as part of the process of policy development and delivery. Financial Services: Taxation Monetary Policy Frank Dobson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will estimate the amount of receipts Steve Baker: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer from a tax on all cost conversions from one currency what assessment he has made of the effects of into another levied at (a) 0.005 per cent., (b) 0.05 per quantitative easing on the cost of borrowing for small businesses and consumers. [48407] cent., (c) 0.5 per cent. and (d) 5 per cent. [60066] Mr Hoban: The Monetary Policy Committee of the Mr Hoban: There are many issues that need to be Bank of England is operationally independent in setting further explored around whether a currency transaction monetary policy to meet the inflation target, including tax model offers a stable and efficient mechanism to bank rate and the level of asset purchases under quantitative raise revenue. These issues need to be resolved before easing (QE). The MPC takes all relevant factors, including the potential revenue could be forecast. the cost of borrowing for businesses and consumers, The UK Government believe a financial transactions into account in its assessment of the balance of risks to tax would need to be applied globally to prevent the inflation in the medium term. The Bank’s May 2009 relocation of financial services and are willing to engage Inflation Report explains how asset purchases work to in further international discussions of such taxes. stimulate nominal spending along various channels. 81W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 82W

The Bank’s analysis, for example in the Quarterly Bulletin Tax Avoidance 2011 Q1, is that QE has had a positive impact on spending by households and businesses. Mr Love: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer National Insurance Contributions what estimate he has made of the (a) cost to the Exchequer and (b) potential administrative savings arising from reform and simplification of the administration Mr Binley: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer of IR35 in a 12 month period; and if he will make a how many occasions he has met representatives of the statement. [60229] Federation of Small Businesses to discuss proposals to extend the national insurance contributions holiday to Mr Gauke: No estimate has been made of the cost to existing businesses with up to four employees. [60556] the Exchequer, or the potential administrative savings arising from a change in the way HM Revenue and Mr Gauke: In advance of the Budget Treasury Ministers Customs (HMRC) administer IR35. Following the recent met with a number of representative bodies to discuss review of the legislation by the Office of Tax Simplification, issues faced by small businesses. The Federation of the Government announced their commitment to making Small Business was one such body. clear improvements in the way IR35 is administered. Northern Rock plc HMRC has established the IR35 Forum to advise on possible changes and to monitor progress. Details about the IR35 Forum are available on HMRC’s website at: Mr Love: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what discussions his Department has had with UK http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/consultations/ir35forum-home.htm Financial Investments on the priority to be given to the Taxation: Self-assessment commitment in the coalition agreement to foster diversity and promote mutuals in the banking industry when evaluating options for the return of Northern Jason McCartney: To ask the Chancellor of the Rock to the private sector; and if he will make a Exchequer what research HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has carried out into levels of satisfaction with statement. [60218] assistance to persons contacting HMRC with queries Mr Hoban: Treasury Ministers and officials have about self-assessment. [58275] meetings with a wide variety of organisations in the Mr Gauke: HMRC has commissioned research from public and private sectors as part of the process of TNS-BMRB to measure the customer experience of policy development and delivery. As was the case with dealing with HMRC. The survey has been running since previous Administrations, it is not the Government’s 2008 and covers customer perceptions of a recent dealing practice to provide details of all such meetings. relating to self-assessment. The development and execution of strategies for The headline measure of customer experience is published disposing of the Government’s shareholding in Northern quarterly on the HMRC website. A full report of HMRC Rock is part of UK Financial Institutions Ltd (UKFI) and Line of Business results (2008-10) has also been remit. UKFI has been looking at the full range of published on the HMRC website: alternatives for divestment, and has been exploring options based on maximising value for the taxpayer, http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/research/report108.pdf maintaining financial stability and paying due regard to UK Banks: Ireland promoting competition. UKFI will provide advice on the future of Northern Rock plc to the Chancellor, who will make the final decision. Frank Dobson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of the extent of The Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right hon. the exposure of UK bonds to the banking and credit Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), launched situation in the Republic of Ireland. [32133] the sale process of Northern Rock plc on 15 June in his Mansion House speech. Any party, including mutuals Mr Hoban [holding answer 21 December 2010]: A are invited to enter a bid for Northern Rock. At this number of factors influence UK gilt yields and it is stage, all viable options, including remutualisation, remain impossible to isolate the impact of any individual factor, available for further consideration; however, a sale is including that of the banking and credit problems in the being explored as the first option. Republic of Ireland. The Government remain committed to promoting mutuals as outlined in the coalition document. VAT: Channel Islands

Oil Mr MacShane: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 24 May 2011, Official Report, Stephen Williams: To ask the Chancellor of the column 590W, on VAT: Channel Islands, whether he is Exchequer what plans his Department has to address taking steps to control imports of beauty products from the challenges posed by peak oil. [60094] the Channel Islands ordered over the internet. [60151]

Justine Greening: The Government recognise the Mr Gauke: All commercial imports from outside the challenges of peak oil, including the analysis from EU, including those of beauty products from the Channel leading energy organisations such as the International Islands, will be subject to the new restrictions announced Energy Agency (IEA). HM Treasury engages actively by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, my right hon. with the Department of Energy and Climate Change Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), in his (DECC) on these matters. 2011 Budget statement. 83W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 84W

VAT: Tourism Chris Ruane: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what assessment he has made of the potential effect on Mr Weir: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer if the future levels of debt of lone parents of reductions he will assess the likely effect on the UK economy of to the childcare element of tax credits. [60431] emulating the recent decision by the Irish Government to reduce the level of value added tax on services Mr Gauke: No assessment has been made of future related to tourism to 9%. [60815] levels of debt as a result of reductions to the child care element of working tax credit. Mr Gauke: There are no immediate plans to assess HMRC continue to monitor and forecast outstanding the cost to the economy of a reduced rate of VAT for debt levels across all of tax credits. This includes the visitor attractions, accommodation and restaurants. aggregate effect of the package announced at spending review 2010. All taxes are kept under review and any changes are announced by the Chancellor as part of the Budget process. JUSTICE The Government are committed to supporting the tourism industry. A wide range of measures were Assets announced, by the Department of Culture Media and Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Sports, in the Government’s Tourism Policy in March 2011. (1) what the monetary value was of confiscation orders made by courts in each year since 1995; [59906] Working Tax Credits: Lone Parents (2) how many confiscation orders were made by the courts in each year since 1995. [60106] Chris Ruane: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Djanogly: Statistics on confiscation orders are what assessment he has made of the effects of only available from 2005 when a multi-government agency reductions in the level of tax credits on the willingness database was introduced to record details of all confiscation of lone parents to (a) continue working and (b) enter orders. work. [60343] The monetary value and number of orders granted in England and Wales from 2005 to 2010 is as follows: Mr Gauke: It is the impact of the tax and benefit system as a whole that is important for work incentives, Number of order Total value of orders rather than particular aspects of the system in isolation, granted granted (£ million) such as tax credits. Annex A of Budget 2011 provides 2005 3,454 132 information on work incentives under the current system, 2006 3,914 146 and how the Government’s commitment to making 2007 4,639 224 work pay through universal credit will effect these. 2008 5,682 219 The Government will clarify and increase work incentives 2009 5,602 174 by introducing the universal credit over the next two 2010 6,126 449 Parliaments. This will replace the current complex system of means-tested working age benefits with a new simple The orders made in 2010 include two separate orders streamlined payment. It will strengthen work incentives— each for £92.3 million. work will always pay and be seen to do so. The Department Belmarsh Prison of Work and Pensions have set out proposals for the universal credit in a White Paper which they published Teresa Pearce: To ask the Secretary of State for on 11 of November 2010 and can be found at: Justice how many of the category D prisoners in http://www.dwp.gov.uk/policy/welfare-reform Belmarsh prison awaiting transfer to an open prison have been waiting for more than four weeks. [60168] Chris Ruane: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer Mr Blunt: There are 24 Category D prisoners in how many lone parents in receipt of tax credits in each Belmarsh, seven of whom have been waiting for a (a) region and (b) constituency will have the childcare transfer to an open prison for more than four weeks. element of such credits reduced as a result of changes to tax credits rules in 2011-12. [60351] Community Orders Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Mr Gauke: No estimate has been made. what budget his Department has set for the two-year The reduction in the child care element is part of a local payment by results schemes in Greater Manchester range of reforms to the tax credits system announced at and London. [59901] the spending review. Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice has set aside up to Estimating the impact of an individual measure does £15 million to support the introduction of payment by not give a clear indication of the full impact on an results over the next two years. individual household. In the local financial incentive pilots payments to The Government published estimates of the distributional local partners in these schemes will be made if there is a impact of the whole package of announced tax and reduction in demand for Ministry of Justice’s services benefit measures which can be found at: in Greater Manchester and the participating London http://cdn.hm-treasury.gov.uk/sr2010_annexb.pdf boroughs. 85W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 86W

The reduction in demand will lead to savings in Her Mr Blunt: The number and total monetary value of Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service, the National compensation orders issued at all courts for all offences Offender Management Service and the Legal Services in England and Wales, 1995 to 2010, can be viewed in Commission. The pilots have been designed so that the table. these savings will be used to fund payments. Number and total value of compensation1 orders issued in all courts for There will be evaluation costs for the pilots and these all offences, 1995 to 20102 will be established following a competitive tendering Number of orders Total value of orders process. These costs will be met from within the existing made made (£) budget. 1995 96,643 34,717,065 1996 98,955 20,367,908 Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 1997 102,291 20,734,386 what measures of success his Department has set for 1998 106,492 21,461,333 the two-year local payment by results schemes in 1999 106,437 23,701,391 Greater Manchester and London. [59902] 2000 104,791 21,864,642 Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice announced in the 2001 106,907 22,146,854 Green Paper, ‘Breaking the Cycle’, published in December 2002 118,342 24,205,611 2010, that it will test a local approach to payment by 2003 126,216 42,052,647 results. The aim is to encourage local statutory partners 2004 130,200 25,925,424 to reduce crime and reoffending, and enable them to 2005 138,206 37,178,796 reinvest any savings that their success realises for the 2006 144,448 30,778,980 justice system in further activity to prevent reoffending 2007 214,486 35,100,634 in their communities. The pilots will be fully evaluated. 2008 244,282 33,451,977 The evaluation will describe and explain what happened 2009 157,410 44,496,659 during the tests, what outcomes were observed across 2010 154,428 44,620,426 the criminal justice system, why these may have occurred, 1 Including compensation orders given as second, third and fourth and what aspects of the schemes were successful. The disposals for principal offences. 2 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons evaluation will monitor reoffending and crime rates, as for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they well as a wider range of criminal justice system data were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or trends, in each local area. It will use a mix of qualitative more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is and quantitative data. imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Note: which organisations have been appointed as national Revisions have been made to 2009 figures to account for the late framework providers of Community Payback services. receipt of a small number of court records. [60039] Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services within the Ministry of Justice. Mr Blunt: Serco, Sodexo and com:pact (Mitie/A4e) were appointed to the national framework in August 2010. Compensation: Young People Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice whether he plans to take steps to reduce the time between the sentencing of an offender and the Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice commencement of that offender’s Community (1) how many out of court disposals for young people Payback work placement. [60040] have been issued in each year since 1995; [59911] Mr Blunt: In December the Government set out (2) how many out of court disposals of each type proposals for the reform of sentencing in the Green there were in each year since 1995. [60108] Paper, “Breaking the Cycle: Effective Punishment, Rehabilitation and Sentencing of Offenders”. This was followed by a 12 week consultation period which closed Mr Djanogly: The number of out of court disposals on 4 March 2011, and I am pleased to say that we for young people that have been issued, and the number received over 1,200 responses. We are considering these of out of court disposals of each type in England and responses, and will set out our more detailed plans in Wales for the years 1995 to 2010 can be viewed in tables the Government’s response to the consultation, which 1 and 2. will be published shortly. Table 1 shows penalty notices for disorder issued to Compensation Orders persons aged 16 and 17, and all ages, by offence in England and Wales 2004 (earliest available) to 2010 Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (latest available); and table 2 shows offenders issued (1) how many compensation orders were made in with a reprimand, warning, or caution for all offences aged 10 to 17 and all ages by offence type 1995 to 2010 England and Wales in each year since 1995; [60105] (latest available). (2) what the monetary value was of compensation orders issued in England and Wales in each year since Court proceedings data for 2011 are planned for 1995. [60150] publication in the spring of 2012. 87W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 88W

Table 1: Penalty notices for disorder issued to persons aged 16 and 17, and all ages, by offence, England and Wales, 2004 to 20101 Number issued Ages 16 to 17 Offence description 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Higher tier offences (£80) Wasting police time 69 215 353 327 254 212 157 Misuse of public telecommunications system 6 24 79 106 88 45 53 Giving false alarm to fire and rescue authority 8 6 15 15 7 9 7 Causing harassment, alarm or distress2 1,968 5,846 8,122 7,068 4,673 3,199 2,174 Throwing fireworks 20 90 101 102 82 57 55 Drunk and disorderly 1328 2,354 3,009 2,941 2,538 2,244 1,710 Criminal damage (under £500)2 103 1,408 2,866 2,796 1,815 1,241 659 Theft (retail under £200)2 167 1,806 3,861 4,474 4,040 3,817 2,682 Breach of fireworks curfew 0473302 Possession of category 4 firework 3265623 Possession by a person under 18 of adult firework 18 42 69 106 57 53 47 Sale of alcohol to drunken person3 0211220 Supply of alcohol to a person under 183 0051241 Sale of alcohol to a person under 18 6 79 91 77 42 40 30 Purchasing alcohol for a person under 18 4 20 45 51 33 22 18 Purchasing alcohol for a person under 18 for consumption 321171310154 on the premises Delivery of alcohol to a person under 18 or allowing such 120243623911 delivery Possession of Cannabis 4— 4— 4— 4— 4— 148 163

Lower tier offences (£50)

Trespassing on a railway 17 73 256 291 257 240 196 Throwing stones at a train/railway 2 5 4 10 8 8 6 Drunk in a highway 31 103 149 106 57 31 13 Consumption of alcohol in a designated public place 20 56 136 172 126 87 31 Depositing and leaving litter 11 185 253 301 241 181 119 Consumption of alcohol by a person under 18 on relevant 774678531199 premises Allowing consumption of alcohol by a person under 18 on 1201200 relevant premises Buying or attempting to buy alcohol by a person under 183 0 17 62 158 100 52 42

Total

Total higher tier offences 3,704 11,939 18,671 18,122 13,675 11,119 7,776 Total lower tier offences 89 515 927 1,124 822 618 416

Total all offences 3,793 12,454 19,598 19,246 14,497 11,737 8,192

Number issued All years Offence description 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Higher tier offences (£80) Wasting police time 1,171 2,525 3,933 3,966 3,443 3,109 2,852 Misuse of public telecommunications system 117 405 909 1,193 888 747 696 Giving false alarm to fire and rescue authority 44 92 106 96 77 80 59 Causing harassment, alarm or distress2 28,790 64,007 82,235 77,827 57,773 43,338 32,317 Throwing fireworks 177 642 682 649 531 353 340 Drunk and disorderly 26,609 37,038 43,556 46,996 44,411 43,570 37,119 Criminal Damage (under £500)2 1,190 12,168 20,620 19,946 13,427 10,145 6,253 Theft (retail under £200)2 2,072 21,997 38,772 45,146 45,616 48,161 40,170 Breach of fireworks curfew 12 33 53 39 23 15 23 Possession of category 4 firework 12 13 28 22 23 56 22 Possession by a person under 18 of adult firework 20 47 76 106 67 59 61 Sale of alcohol to drunken person3 0324781669074 Supply of alcohol to a person under 183 0 3 60 54 83 104 59 Sale of alcohol to a person under 18 113 2,058 3,195 3,583 2,824 3,002 2,098 Purchasing alcohol for a person under 18 18 170 407 555 524 429 330 89W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 90W

Number issued All years Offence description 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Purchasing alcohol for a person under 18 for consumption 66 83 60 64 50 46 33 on the premises Delivery of alcohol to a person under 18 or allowing such 20 209 297 431 286 190 120 delivery Possession of Cannabis 4— 4— 4— 4— 4— 11,491 13,916

Lower tier offences (£50) Trespassing on a railway 96 220 1,042 1,527 1,468 1,552 1,454 Throwing stones at a train/railway 66 20 15 25 27 21 11 Drunk in a highway 2,497 3,138 2,712 2,066 1,438 999 758 Consumption of alcohol in a designated public place 485 712 1,061 1,544 1,761 1,596 1,036 Depositing and leaving litter 51 737 1,169 1,374 1,202 1,148 903 Consumption of alcohol by a person under 18 on relevant 7847585362714 premises Allowing consumption of alcohol by a person under 18 on 62714116 4 3 relevant premises Buying or attempting to buy alcohol by a person under 183 0 21 73 158 114 61 48

Total Total higher tier offences 60,431 141,522 195,036 200,754 170,112 164,985 136,542 Total lower tier offences 3,208 4,959 6,161 6,790 6,052 5,408 4,227

Total all offences 63,639 146,481 201,197 207,544 176,164 170,393 140,769 1 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 2 Offence is a notifiable offence included within OBTJ figures. 3 Offence is a recordable offence as of 1 December 2005. PND offence not introduced at this time. 4 Commenced from 26 January 2009. Note: PND (penalty notice for disorder) data are a count of all penalty notices for disorder issued during the year. Penalty notices for disorder came into force in November 2004. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice. Table 2: Offenders issued with a reprimand, warning, or caution1,2 aged 10 to 17, and all ages by offence type 1995 to 20103 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002

Aged 10 to 17 Reprimand/warning (all offences) 120,561 113,065 104,520 109,725 103,978 97,541 98,042 86,589

All ages Cautioned by offence type Violence against the person4 20,436 21,819 23,641 23,483 21,233 19,875 19,568 23,606 Sexual offences5 2,226 2,007 1,904 1,706 1,450 1,282 1,226 1,185 Burglary 10,467 10,154 9,407 8,372 7,689 6,601 6,396 5,771 Robbery 583 631 657 620 576 621 548 408 Theft and handling stolen goods 104,894 93,637 82,789 83,602 75,443 67,588 63,477 54,214 Fraud and forgery 7,879 7,502 7,156 7,402 7,205 6,180 5,764 5,335 Criminal damage 3,847 3,149 2,765 2,746 3,003 3,219 3,366 3,102 Drug offences 48,230 47,472 56,028 58,734 49,350 41,104 39,424 44,922 Other indictable offences4,5 4,023 4,440 5,012 5,059 4,630 4,429 4,161 4,389 Summary offences (excluding 88,662 95,387 92,734 96,170 95,553 88,088 85,930 82,426 motoring) Total 291,247 286,198 282,093 287,894 266,132 238,987 229,860 225,358

2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Aged 10 to 17 Reprimand/warning (all offences) 91,933 105,008 118,878 129,061 127,326 98,175 78,679 52,989

All ages Cautioned by offence type Violence against the person4 28,760 36,610 51,017 57,271 52,329 37,880 27,305 21,871 Sexual offences5 1,346 1,540 1,741 1,914 1,947 1,681 1,478 1,364 Burglary 5,568 5,604 6,451 7,687 6,972 5,407 4,398 3,484 Robbery 422 451 622 712 614 382 205 207 91W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 92W

2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010

Theft and handling stolen goods 54,466 61,944 67,619 72,369 72,790 64,047 60,730 47,538 Fraud and forgery 5,484 6,036 6,936 8,024 8,587 8,263 7,210 6,126 Criminal damage 3,726 5,495 7,246 9,018 8,813 7,873 6,419 5,075 Drug offences 45,707 32,621 34,390 37,426 43,050 47,038 43,808 40,721 Other indictable offences4,5 5,270 5,970 6,912 9,388 9,996 8,609 7,982 7,155 Summary offences (excluding motoring) 91,057 99,497 116,011 146,168 157,797 146,712 131,110 109,290 Aged 10 to 17 241,806 255,768 298,945 349,977 362,895 327,892 290,645 242,831 1 From 1 June 2000 the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 came into force nationally and removed the use of cautions for persons under 18 and replaced them with reprimands and warnings. 2 The cautions statistics relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When an offender has been cautioned for two or more offences at the same time the principal offence is the more serious offence. 3 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 4 Standardisation of offence groups—‘concealment of birth’, will be included in the offence group ‘other indictable offences’, moving from ‘violence against the person’; changing the classification of an offence committed by approximately five defendants each year. 5 Standardisation of offence groups—‘bigamy’, will be included in the offence group ‘other indictable offences’, moving from ‘sexual offences’, changing the classification of an offence committed by approximately 20 defendants each year. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice

Courts Information on cases received and cases awaiting trial in the magistrates courts can be provided only at Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice disproportionate cost. Since 2009 information on cases (1) how many cases in (a) magistrates courts and (b) received is collected on central systems, but cannot be the Crown court were awaiting trial on 1 January of readily extracted and collated at the present time due to the way the data are held. The available statistics on each year since 1995; [59907] magistrates court workloads relates to the number of (2) how many cases (a) magistrates courts and criminal proceedings completed. Figures for all magistrates (b) the Crown court received in each year since 1995. courts in England and Wales from 2008 to 2010 are also [60005] presented in the table. Statistics are not available prior to April 2007 on a comparable basis due to changes in Mr Djanogly: The total number of cases received by the data collection method. Information regarding the the Crown court and the number of trial cases outstanding number of cases awaiting trial is also not available since at the end of year, in England and Wales, from 1995 to it is not collected centrally and could be obtained from 2010 are provided in the following table. court files only at disproportionate cost.

Table 1. Number of cases received and trials outstanding in the Crown court, and completed criminal proceedings in the magistrates courts, England and Wales, 1995 to 20106 Total number of cases Total number of trial cases Total number of trial cases Total number of criminal proceedings received in the Crown court1 received in the Crown court2 outstanding at the end of each year completed in the magistrates courts4,5

1995 118,144 81,186 24,993 — 1996 114,311 83,328 25,048 — 1997 122,250 91,110 25,916 — 1998 121,867 75,815 23,853 — 1999 121,573 74,232 24,624 - 20003 112,504 72,420 25,098 — 2001 120,023 81,968 29,686 — 2002 125,074 85,052 31,495 — 2003 126,390 84,944 32,279 — 2004 122,062 79,476 29,812 — 2005 124,313 79,214 33,246 — 2006 126,991 77,557 33,853 — 2007 136,434 82,881 33,987 — 2008 145,715 90,040 36,312 2,031,140 2009 150,711 97,707 39,898 1,912,632 20106 150,666 96,927 36,363 1,797,348 1 Receipts in the Crown court include committals direct from the magistrates court, bench warrants executed (trial and sentence only) and cases transferred in, less cases transferred out. 2 Sent for trial cases under s51 CDA 1998 were introduced nationally on 15 January 2001 before this figures are from the pilot programme, resulting in an increase in the number of trials received in the Crown court in 2001. 3 Crown court statistics before 2000 were obtained from CREST via our historical database. 4 Criminal proceedings completed in the magistrates courts includes indictable only cases, triable either-way cases, summary motoring, summary non-motoring, youth proceeding and breaches. These figures are based on the number of completed proceedings. 5 Magistrates courts changed their data collection systems from legacy systems to Libra during this time. Statistics are not available prior to April 2007 on a comparable basis due to changes in the data collection method, so figures for 2007 are not provided. 6 The figures for 2010 are provisional; revised statistics will be published in ‘Judicial and Court Statistics’ on 30 June 2011. Source: HMCTS CREST system and Completed Proceedings, HMCTS Performance Database (‘OPT’) 93W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 94W

Crown Courts The number of persons sentenced for indictable offences at the Crown court, broken down by plea, immediate Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice custody and average sentence length, in England and how many cases destined for the Crown court which Wales, 1995 to 2010 (latest available) can be viewed in involved the submission of a guilty plea received a the table. reduction in the sentence handed down of (a) up to 10%, (b) up to 25% and (c) up to one third in each Court proceedings data for 2011 are planned for year since 1995. [59908] publication in the spring of 2012. Mr Blunt: Information about the extent to which sentences in individual cases are reduced by reason of a guilty plea is not recorded centrally.

Persons sentenced1 for indictable offences at the Crown court: Plea2, immediate custody and average sentence length, England and Wales, 1995 to 20103,4 Number of persons, percentages and average sentence length (months) Total number sentenced Immediate custody Average length of sentence5 Percentage Percentage Not Percentage Not guilty pleading Guilty of guilty guilty of not Guilty plea plea guilty plea pleas plea guilty pleas Guilty plea Not guilty plea

19956 25,860 5,870 81.5 14,418 55.8 3,839 65.4 19.3 33.5 1996 54,777 11,869 82.2 32,505 59.3 8,162 68.8 20.6 34.1 1997 59,207 11,592 83.6 34,727 58.7 8,163 70.4 21.1 36.6 1998 48,583 10,807 81.8 27,793 57.2 7,580 70.1 21.6 36.8 1999 44,578 10,226 81.3 26,447 59.3 7,262 71.0 22.5 38.1 2000 43,968 9,864 81.7 26,526 60.3 7,219 73.2 22.9 37.1 2001 43,941 9,765 81.8 26,420 60.1 7,033 72.0 24.4 38.9 2002 47,064 9,973 82.5 27,975 59.4 7,263 72.8 25.9 41.6 2003 47,627 9,297 83.7 27,013 56.7 6,550 70.5 26.2 44.4 2004 48,249 9,348 83.8 27,732 57.5 6,798 72.7 26.3 44.9 2005 46,844 8,700 84.3 26,545 56.7 6,173 71.0 26.0 43.3 2006 46,854 8,668 84.4 25,516 54.5 6,026 69.5 25.3 42.5 2007 52,667 8,723 85.8 28,718 54.5 5,822 66.7 24.2 42.2 2008 58,318 8,825 86.9 32,629 56.0 6,174 70.0 24.7 45.9 20097 64,485 8,835 88.0 35,847 55.6 6,108 69.1 24.3 47.1 2010 69,896 9,471 88.1 36,697 52.5 6,346 67.0 24.3 46.8 1 Excludes offenders convicted at magistrates courts and committed for sentence at the Crown court. 2 Final plea recorded on completion of trial. 3 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 4 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. 5 Excludes life and indeterminate sentences. 6 Plea data are only available from 1 July 1995. 7 Revisions have been made to 2009 figures to account for the late receipt of a small number of court records. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice. Ref: PQ 59908 (Table) (Data for 1995 to 2005 taken from 2005 sentencing publication Table 2.19, Data for 2006 to 2010 taken from sas run).

Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice to an alternative charge which was accepted by the (1) in what proportion of cases destined for the Crown prosecution. Information on the proportion of Crown court a guilty plea was entered (a) after the announcement court cases listed for trial that resulted in a guilty plea of a trial date and (b) at the door of the court in the being entered after the announcement of a trial date latest period for which figures are available; [59909] can be obtained only at a disproportionate cost as the announcement date is not held centrally. (2) what proportion of young people pleaded guilty on a first appearance in court in each year since 1995; The proportion of youth defendants who pleaded [59912] guilty at first hearing in the magistrates courts in England and Wales from 1995 to 2010 is shown in Table 1. (3) how many cases in the Crown court ended in a Table 2 contains the number of cases in the Crown guilty plea in each year since 1995. [60006] court that ended in a guilty plea in each of the years from 1995 to 2010. A case is treated as a guilty plea only if pleas of guilty are recorded in respect of all defendants Mr Djanogly: Of the Crown court cases listed for trial involved. A guilty plea is recorded when a defendant: (i) in 2010, around 39% ended on the trial date before the pleads guilty to all counts; (ii) pleads guilty to some jury was sworn (no further trial time required) due to a counts and not guilty to others and no jury is sworn in defendant entering a late guilty plea or pleading guilty respect of the not guilty counts; and (iii) pleads not 95W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 96W guilty to some or all counts but offers a guilty plea to Table 2: Number of cases1 in the Crown court that ended in a guilty alternatives which are accepted (providing no jury is plea, England and Wales, 1995 to 20102,3,4,5 sworn in respect of the other counts). Number of guilty plea cases Table 1: Youth defendants pleading guilty at first hearing in the 2010 65,800 magistrates court, England and Wales, 1995 to 20101,2 1 Includes cases which can be heard in either a magistrates court or Proportion of youth defendants the Crown court (a defendant can elect to be tried in the Crown court where initial guilty plea given (%) or a magistrate can decide that a case is sufficiently serious that it should be dealt with in the Crown court); and cases sent for trial by 1995 24 the magistrates court because they can only be heard by the Crown court. 1996 26 2 The reporting period is defined by the date on which the defendants 1997 24 involved were dealt with. 1998 28 3 A guilty plea is recorded when a defendant: (i) pleads guilty to all counts; (ii) pleads guilty to some counts and not guilty to others and 3,4 34 1999 no jury is sworn in respect of the not guilty counts; and (iii) pleads not 20005 37 guilty to some or all counts but offers a guilty plea to alternatives 2001 38 which are accepted (providing no jury is sworn in respect of the other counts). 2002 37 4 A case is treated as a guilty plea only if pleas of guilty are recorded 2003 39 in respect of all defendants involved. 5 The figures have been rounded to the nearest 100. 2004 41 6 Sent for trial cases under section 51 of the Crime and Disorder Act 2005 44 1998 were introduced nationally on 15 January 2001. 2006 44 Source: HM Courts and Tribunals Service CREST system 2007 46 2008 55 Custody: Young People 2009 57 2010 56 Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 From the June 2008 survey, the youth data is collected from the Justice (1) if he will initiate a review into the deaths in four-week sample via a web-based method of collecting TIS data custody of five adults aged between 18 and 21 in the called the One Performance Truth (OPT) (the pre-existing method of [60870] youth data collection has been available up until March 2009). Using last four months; this method has brought a number of improvements, including validation (2) how many of the young adults who died in of the data ‘live’ as it is entered, collection of data at court level rather custody in the last four months received full mental than clerkship level (as previously done). health assessments while in custody; [60871] 2 A youth defendant is classified as being aged 10 to 17 on the date when an offence was alleged to have been committed. (3) how many of the young adults who have died in 3 From 1995 to 1998 data were collected based on the number of custody in the last four months were being handled defendants appearing in either adult or youth courts. From 1999 under the Assessment, Care in Custody and Teamwork onwards defendant details were collected specifically, therefore allowing [60873] the identification of youth cases listed in adult courts as well as those care planning system prior to their deaths. appearing in a youth court. As this may partly explain the increase in the proportion of those pleading guilty at the first hearing, caution Mr Blunt: Every death in prison is a tragedy, and should be applied when interpreting the figures shown in the table and affects families, staff and other prisoners deeply. Ministers comparing them with subsequent years’ results. and the Ministry of Justice including the National 4 From 1995 to 1998, the results are based on completed criminal proceedings in one sample week in February, June and October. From Offender Management Service are committed to learning 1999 onwards, information on youth defendants in all criminal completed from such events in reducing the number of self-inflicted proceedings was collected in a four week period. deaths in prison custody. 5 From the February 2000 survey, there is now one survey in each All deaths in prison are subject to a police investigation quarter. The results are now based on March, June, September and December surveys. and an independent investigation by the prisons and Source: probation ombudsman, and a coroner’s inquest is held Time Intervals Survey (TIS) before a jury. Until these investigations are complete I Table 2: Number of cases1 in the Crown court that ended in a guilty am unable to comment on the detail of any of these cases. plea, England and Wales, 1995 to 20102,3,4,5 Number of guilty plea cases Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for 1995 49,900 Justice whether he proposes any assessment of the effects of mixing young adults in custody with the 1996 48,600 adult prison population. [60872] 1997 53,500 1998 41,900 Mr Blunt: Young adults sentenced to detention in a 1999 37,900 young offender institution (DYOI) are detained in young 2000 37,000 offender institutions (YOIs) as required by section 98 of 6 2001 36,700 the Powers of the Criminal Courts (Sentencing) Act 2000. 2002 40,200 These are normally self-contained but in some instances 2003 41,900 are situated within an adult prison with which they 2004 42,200 share the majority of their facilities. Whatever the location, 2005 41,600 young adults detained in YOIs have separate sleeping 2006 45,300 accommodation and are always managed in accordance 2007 50,700 with the YOI rules. My officials are monitoring any 2008 56,100 effects of co-locating young adults with the adult prison 2009 61,900 population. 97W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 98W

Departmental Manpower Drugs: Alcoholic drinks

Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many members of staff his Department and its what research from (a) the UK and (b) abroad his agencies have recruited since May 2010. [59998] Department has (i) commissioned and (ii) evaluated on the effectiveness of payment by results models in Mr Blunt: Currently, a recruitment freeze is in place, tackling drug and alcohol dependency. [59889] which affects all external recruitment into the civil service, with exemptions allowed for business critical Anne Milton: I have been asked to reply. and frontline posts. The Fast Stream graduate programme We are aware of other approaches to payment by is also exempt. For the period 1 May 2010 to 30 April results, such as in the United States and have considered 2011 the Ministry of Justice and its agencies, including the evidence and engaged colleagues. the National Offender Management Service, recruited Although tackling drugs and alcohol dependency is a 3,272 new members of staff to frontline and business challenging area in which to deliver payments by results, critical posts. In addition, 596 new members were recruited that does not mean we should not aim to make from other Government Departments. improvements for this group. This is exactly why we are The Ministry both recruits people in line with the piloting it and ensuring the detail is designed in partnership Civil Service Commissioners recruitment principles and with the pilot areas. is committed to recruitment on merit through fair and The drug recovery payment by results programme of open competition. piloting will be subject to robust independent evaluation commissioned by the Department. A competitive tendering Departmental Pensions process for this is currently underway, closing on 21 June 2011, details available at: Dr Murrison: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice www.dh.gov.uk/prp-ccf how many (a) civil servants and (b) office holders of Drugs: Females his Department at each grade have pension pots (i) currently valued and (ii) projected to be valued on Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice retirement at more than (A) £1 million and (B) £1.5 million. what steps his Department is taking to develop [59355] intensive community-based drug treatment options for women offenders. [59890] Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice has information in respect of cash equivalent transfer values (CETVs) Paul Burstow: I have been asked to reply. for civil servants that are board members only. These The Department of Health, Ministry of Justice and are disclosed in the Remuneration Report in the annual the Home Office, are exploring how the provision of Ministry of Justice Resource Accounts (of which a residential and other intensive treatment in the community copy for the financial year 2009-10 can be found in the can help those offenders with drug dependence or mental Library of the House and on the Ministry of Justice health problems. It is anticipated that a range of website). Projected values are not reported. interventions will be required, varying in intensity, and The Department does not hold information on CETVs would need to form part of a graduated response to for all its civil servants. This information can be obtained what is provided in the community for different levels of only by writing to the individual’s Authorised Pension need. Administration Centre and obtaining this would involve disproportionate cost. Drugs: Offences

Drugs Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what proportion of those serving custodial sentences had been convicted of offences related to drugs in each Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice year since 1995. [60004] how much funding his Department and its predecessors allocated to mandatory drug testing in Mr Blunt: Available information on the immediate each year since 1995. [59887] custodial population as a proportion of those convicted of offences related to drugs in England and Wales from Mr Blunt: A recent costing exercise estimated that the 1995 to 2010 (latest available) can be found in the tables. cost to the National Offender Management Service These figures are taken from published tables within (NOMS) of mandatory drug testing (MDT) was the Statistical bulletins ‘Offender Management Caseload approximately £5.3 million in 2010. This includes staff Statistics, England and Wales’ for the years 1995-2009 time to collect urine samples from prisoners and the and the ‘Offender Management Statistics annual tables laboratory costs for the analysis of those samples. 2010’, available via these links: Similar estimates for other years between 1995 and http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110218135832/ 2011 have not been undertaken. http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/hosbarchive.html The figures presented in this answer have been collected http://www.justice.gov.uk/publications/statistics-and-data/ from management information held centrally in NOMS, prisons-and-probation/oms-quartlery.htm data returns from prison establishments, regional offices These figures have been drawn from administrative and/or fieldwork carried out as part of the costing IT systems, which, as with any large scale recording programme. The accuracy of the data, which is not system, are subject to possible errors with data entry subject to audit, cannot be guaranteed. and processing. 99W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 100W

Population in prison under immediate custodial sentence and proportion serving a sentence for drug offences, England and Wales, 1995-2010 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002 2003

Drug offences 4,256 5,755 7,174 7,893 8,169 8,473 9,148 10,067 10,330 Total population 38,863 42,914 48,674 52,159 51,293 53,093 54,169 57,272 59,393 Proportion 11.0 13.4 14.7 15.1 15.9 16.0 16.9 17.6 17.4 (percentage)

2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 20091 2010

Drug offences 10,486 10,661 10,647 10,613 10,982 10,696 10,420 11,064 Total population 60,924 62,179 63,404 65,533 68,124 68,375 68,461 70,871 Proportion 17.2 17.1 16.8 16.2 16.1 15.6 15.2 15.6 (percentage) 1 Due to the introduction of a new prison IT system the 2010 prison population data is taken from a different source. The 2009 figures from both the old and new system have been presented to aid comparison. Note: These figures have been drawn from large administrative data systems which, as with any large scale recording system, are subject to possible errors with data entry and processing.

Legal Costs the need for further costs, county courts display notices giving the contact details of free advice providers. Mr Buckland: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice The Ministry of Justice is currently consulting on a what assessment he has made of the merits of early range of proposals for reforming the civil justice system, intervention to prevent civil disputes about money and that include a greater role for alternative dispute resolution mechanisms, such as mediation, as well as encouraging debt becoming matters for litigation. [59995] earlier settlement through a more robust pre-action procedure. The consultation closes on 30 June. Mr Djanogly: The Government’s vision is for people Life Imprisonment to resolve their disputes at an early stage, ideally before entering the court process and before the costs of litigation Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice escalate. how many people received indeterminate sentences of Early engagement is reflected in the rules of court, imprisonment for public protection in each year since the Civil Procedure Rules, and in a range of pre-action 2003. [60002] protocols, which encourage early engagement and settlement where possible. Despite this, creditors often have to Mr Blunt: The number of persons sentenced to an resort to court action because of a lack of debtor indeterminate sentence of imprisonment for public engagement for dealing with disputes including money, protection in England and Wales, 2005 to 2010 can be debt and other issues. Cases fall into the court system viewed in the following table. often for the wrong reasons, sometimes because people Sentences of imprisonment for public protection were are unaware of alternatives or have not used the advice introduced by the Criminal Justice Act 2003 on 4 April services that are available to help resolve disputes. To 2005. IPPs were therefore not available in 2003 and assist with resolving cases that have reached court without 2004.

Persons sentenced to immediate custody and the number of indeterminate sentences for all offences, England and Wales 2005-10 England and Wales Persons given immediate custody and sentence length 2005 2006 2007 2008 20091 2010

All offences Total persons sentenced 1,473,275 1,412,940 1,406,788 1,353,937 1,398,278 1,357,600 Number given immediate custody 101,236 96,017 95,206 99,525 100,231 101,513

Percentage given immediate custody (%) 6.9 6.8 6.8 7.4 7.2 7.5

Indeterminate sentence2 426 1,448 1,707 1,538 1,001 1,019 1 Revisions have been made to 2009 figures to account for the late receipt of a small number of court records. 2 Sentences of imprisonment for public protection introduced by the Criminal Justice Act 2003 on 4 April 2005.

Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice in the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 have (1) how many prisoners serving indeterminate sentences served the minimum term under their sentence; [60009] of imprisonment for public protection have served the minimum term under their sentence; [60008] (3) what the average minimum sentence handed down to prisoners given indeterminate sentences of imprisonment (2) how many prisoners serving indeterminate sentences for public protection was (a) before and (b) after the of imprisonment for public protection which were handed implementation of the changes introduced by the Criminal down before the implementation of changes introduced Justice and Immigration Act 2008. [60012] 101W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 102W

Mr Blunt: Based on data on 17 November 2010, the took up an appointment with Sodexo in May 2011. number of prisoners who are serving indeterminate There may have been others who joined private sector sentences of imprisonment for public protection (IPP) providers but there is no requirement for those leaving and have passed their tariff expiry date is 3,174. The to advise the Department or agency of their future number of prisoners serving an IPP sentence who have employment plans, save for any obligations under the not passed their tariff expiry date is 3,119. A further 41 Business Appointment Rules. These rules were applied prisoners were serving an IPP where their tariff expiry in the appointment of the former Director of Offender date is not yet recorded. Management with Sodexo. The number of prisoners serving an IPP sentence imposed before the implementation of the changes Police Cautions introduced in the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008 (CJIA08), on 14 July 2008, and have passed their Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice tariff expiry date is 3,026. if he will publish the outcomes of his Department’s The average tariff length for IPPs imposed before and pilots on the availability of punitive conditions to after the CJIA08 implementation is shown in the table. police forces and prosecutors as part of a conditional caution. [59910] Average tariff (years) Mr Blunt: The outcomes of the pilots are not yet Pre CJ1A08 implementation 3 available. We consulted on the availability of punitive Post CJAI08 implementation 4 conditions as part of the Green Paper “Breaking the Cycle”. We are considering the responses we received to These data include prisoners serving an IPP sentence the Green Paper consultation and will be publishing in prison and secure hospitals but exclude those who our plans shortly. have been recalled to custody following release. The average length of tariff data included in the table does Prison Sentences: Methadone not include time served on remand. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice National Offender Management Services: Managers (1) what proportion of persons in custody with sentences of (a) up to three months, (b) between three Ian Lavery: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice and six months, (c) between six and 12 months, (d) (1) how many managers at grade C or above have left between one and two years, (e) between two and five the employment of (a) his Department and (b) the years, (f) between five and 10 years and (g) 10 years National Offender Management Service in the last two and over were in receipt of methadone in the latest financial years; and how many of those managers have period for which figures are available; [59914] subsequently been employed by Sodexo; [59986] (2) what proportion of those serving a custodial (2) how many managers at grade C or above have left sentence were in receipt of methadone in each year the employment of (a) his Department and (b) the since 1995. [60116] National Offender Management Service in the last two financial years; and how many of those managers have Mr Blunt: The requested information on the proportion subsequently been employed by Reliance; [59988] of persons in custody receiving methadone by length of (3) how many managers at grade C or above have left sentence is not routinely collated and could only be the employment of (a) his Department and (b) the obtained at disproportionate cost by analysing prisoner National Offender Management Service in the last two records and disaggregating information which may be financial years; and how many of those managers have held on local data systems. subsequently been employed by Mitie. [59990] Data is available on the number of clinical drug interventions provided in prisons for drug dependency Mr Blunt: The grading structure in the National since 2007-08. There is no collated data prior to 2007. Offender Management Service (NOMS) differs from In 2007-08, a total of 58,809 prisoners received a clinical drug the rest of the Ministry of Justice (MOJ). The definition intervention. Of these, 12,518 (21%) received a maintenance of grade C is different in each case. Senior Manager C prescription for opioid dependency of either methadone or in NOMS refers to a more senior responsibility level buprenorphine. than a Band C in MOJ. The equivalent of a Senior In 2008-09, a total of 64,767 prisoners received a clinical drug Manager C within MOJ is Band A. It is this level for intervention. Of these 19,632 (31%) received a maintenance which information is supplied in the answer. prescription for opioid dependency of either methadone or buprenorphine. The number of senior managers (Bands A and above) In 2009-10, a total of 60,067 prisoners received a clinical drug that left the MOJ between 1 April 2009 and 31 March 2011 intervention. Of these 23,744 (39%) received a maintenance was 348. The number of senior managers (Senior Manager prescription for opioid dependency of either methadone or C and above) that left NOMS during the same period buprenorphine.1 was 109. Of these, 38 staff were operational grades. 1 NOMS Performance Data The MOJ and NOMS do not keep records of employment taken up by former staff after they have Prisoners left. NOMS is however aware that a small number of senior managers resigned in 2010 to take up posts in the Ian Mearns: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice private sector, including the Governors of Holloway, what the average cost to the public purse of an adult Whitemoor, Moorland and the Isle of Wight prisons. prisoner in England and Wales was in the last 12 One former Director of Offender Management also months. [59994] 103W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 104W

Mr Blunt: For the purpose of this answer, an adult Mr Blunt: The decision to place a sexual offender in prisoner is taken to be a prisoner held in an “adult” approved premises is taken by the Probation Trust establishment, i.e. any prison that is not a young offender which has statutory responsibility for supervising the institution (which hold prisoners up to age 21). The offender, in consultation with the other local agencies overall average resource cost per prisoner held in an involved in MAPPA and the manager of the relevant adult establishment in England and Wales for 2009-10 approved premises. The primary consideration is whether is £39,000. The average resource cost per place is £43,000. the risk of harm posed by the offender to others would This is the latest period for which figures are available. be most effectively managed by the enhanced supervision Figures rounded to the nearest thousand. provided in an approved premises. The decision to The costs represent the total cost per place/prisoner admit an offender to a particular approved premises is at each prison where the majority use at the end of each based upon an assessment of the risk of serious harm year was for adults. There is no adjustment for prisons posed by the offender to the public, victims, and other holding prisoners both above and below age 21. residents or staff. The overall average resource cost comprises the direct The Probation Trust may also ask for particular local establishment costs of public and private prisons, licence conditions to be imposed, in the case of a increased by an apportionment of relevant costs borne determinate sentence prisoner from the governor of the centrally and in the regions by NOMS. This involves releasing prison and in the case of an indeterminate some estimation. The figures do not include the cost of sentence prisoner from the Parole Board. Such licence prisoners held in police or court cells under Operation conditions might include a requirement to comply with Safeguard, or expenditure met by other Government electronic monitoring and a requirement to stay away Departments (e.g. Health and Education). Prisoner escort from specified places. service costs are included. For the majority of sexual offenders who have served Cost per prison place is expressed in terms of the the custodial part of their sentence and have to be Baseline Certified Normal Accommodation number of released into the community, it is better in public protection places. terms that they are placed in an approved premises immediately on release from custody rather than in Prisoners’ Release: Sexual Offences other less suitable accommodation in the community, which is the only alternative. Mr Shepherd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice at what stage of the process of release on licence of a sexual offender to approved premises the relevant local Prisoners: Drugs authority is notified; at what stage a meeting of the local Multi-Agency Public Protection Arrangements (MAPPA) team is convened; and at what stage MAPPA is statutorily Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice required to (a) have a representative at relevant meetings what proportion of prisoners subject to random and (b) conduct an assessment of the risk to local mandatory drug testing tested positive in (a) each year public safety posed by a given offender. [60997] from 1995 to 2010 and (b) 2011 to date. [59920] Mr Blunt: Section 325(2) of the Criminal Justice Act 2003 (the 2003 Act) requires the responsible authority Mr Blunt: Mandatory drug testing (MDT) records in each area (the police, probation and prison services held centrally are anonymous. For this reason data acting jointly) to make arrangements for assessing and relating to the proportion of prisoners testing positive is managing the risks posed by violent and sexual offenders. not available. Available instead is the proportion of Further to this, section 325(3) of the 2003 Act requires MDT samples that have tested positive. the responsible authority to act in co-operation with the The following table gives the percentage of random persons specified in section 325(6); and requires those MDT samples that have tested positive in each financial persons to co-operate with the responsible authority. year since 1995. The list of persons in section 325(6) includes local Random mandatory drug testing 1995 to 2011 by financial year authority representatives. Percentage of samples testing The detail of these arrangements for risk assessment, positive risk management and co-operation is set out in guidance issued to responsible authorities by the Secretary of 1995-96 31.7 State under section 325(8) of the 2003 Act. Under this 1996-97 24.4 guidance, the risk posed by sexual offenders must be 1997-98 20.8 assessed, and a MAPPA meeting convened, at least six 1998-99 18.1 months before the offender is due to be released on 1999-2000 14.4 licence. Where release to an approved premises, or to 2000-01 12.2 local authority accommodation, is being considered, 2001-02 11.5 the responsible authority will invite the relevant local 2002-03 11.7 authority representatives to the initial MAPPA meeting 2003-04 12.5 and to subsequent review meetings. 2004-05 11.8 2005-06 10.3 Mr Shepherd: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice 2006-07 8.8 what steps he is taking to ensure that Multi-Agency 2007-08 9.1 Public Protection Arrangements teams make the 2008-09 7.7 appropriate arrangements with regard to placement of 2009-10 7.8 sexual offenders in approved premises. [60998] 105W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 106W

From 1 April 2009 buprenorphine was added to the Table 2 standard panel of drugs tested for under MDT. This £ million explains the slight increase in overall positive rates in Total spend in Wales— funded by the Welsh 2009-10. Total spend in England Government Data for 2010-11 will be published in July 2011 as part of the National Offender Management Service 2010-11 171 2.3 annual report for 2010-11. 2011-12 172 2.4 2012-13 1170 12.4 These figures have been drawn from live administrative 1 Indicative. data systems which may be amended at any time. Although Allocations beyond 2012-13 have yet to be confirmed. care is taken when processing and analysing the returns, the detail collected is subject to the inaccuracies inherent £34 million of the growth between 2005-06 and 2010-11 in any large scale recording system. (inclusive) was as a result of additional education allocations to support the places flowing from the prison capacity Prisoners: Training programme. The National Offender Management Service (NOMS) Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice provides both physical resources and staff to support how much his Department has allocated to employment educational activities and employment support for prisoners. and learning services for prisoners in each year of the Some employment support is delivered in partnership comprehensive spending review period; and how much with the Department for Work and Pensions. It is not funding his Department and its predecessors allocated possible to separately identify these costs which are not for such purposes in each year between 1995 and 2010. held centrally. [59891] Training for prisoners is undertaken, mainly by Prison Service staff, while prisoners work or are engaged in Mr Blunt: Education services for prisoners1 are funded various areas such as prison industries, catering, physical by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills education, land based activities, industrial cleaning and (BIS), devolved to the Skills Funding Agency, formerly laundries. The central costs of the training elements of the Learning and Skills Council (LSC). these, mainly production functions, are not kept centrally. 1 Offenders aged 18 and over. NOMS gained co-financing organisation status in The Learning and Skills Council assumed responsibility January 2009 and successfully bid for a total of £50 for planning and funding the integrated Offender Learning million of European Social Funding to enhance the and Skills Service (OLASS) in England on 31 July 2006. skills and employment services to offenders in prison OLASS funds the delivery of skills for offenders (aged and the community. NOMS has been granted the funding 18 and over) held in English Public Sector prisons for over 27 months to increase offenders’ employability and both sentenced prisoners and those held on remand. improve their access to mainstream support provision. In Wales, from April 2006, commissioning responsibilities Funding has been extended into a second phase up to for offender learning and skills provision became the 2013. responsibility of Director of Offender Management in Wales. Responsibilities for learning and skills provision Prisons: Drugs for those in custody in Wales transferred to the Welsh Assembly Government with effect from 1 April 2009. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Data are available on spend since 2001. Table 1 how much his Department has allocated to tackle drug includes spend directly relating to the OLASS provision addiction on the prison estate in each year of the and also spend associated with the employment of comprehensive spending review period; and how much Heads of Learning and Skills in prisons, Libraries and funding his Department and its predecessors allocated Higher Education in public sector prisons in England for such purposes in each year since 1995. [59888] and Wales: Mr Blunt: From April 2011, the Department of Health Table 1 assumed responsibility for funding all drug treatment in Total spend (£ million) prisons in England. They are providing £69.4 million1 2001-02 57 of prison funding previously allocated by the Ministry 2002-03 73 of Justice and £44.5 million from their Integrated Drug 2003-04 116 Treatment System (IDTS) budget in each of the three 2004-05 126 years of the comprehensive spending review period 2005-06 151 (2011-14). 2006-07 156 Drug treatment funding allocated to prisons from 2007-08 161 1999-2000 to 2010-11 is shown in the following table. 2008-09 171 Information from 1995-99 is not centrally available and 2009-10 181 could be obtained only at disproportionate cost. Over the comprehensive spending review (CSR) period, Funding allocated to prisons in England and Wales for drug treatment allocations are as follows: £ million Table 2 includes spend directly relating to the OLASS 1999-20002 12.6 provision and also spend associated with the employment 2000-01 16.5 of Heads of Learning and Skills in prisons, Libraries 2001-02 27.3 and Higher Education in public sector prisons in England 2002-03 28.7 and Wales: 2003-04 37.7 107W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 108W

Funding allocated to prisons in England and Wales for drug treatment Financial Year 2010-11 £ million Data for 2010-11 are not yet available as financial 2004-05 51.1 accounts for the 2010-11 have yet to be finalised. 2005-06 60.7 Comprehensive Spending Review Period Year 2011-12 2006-07 78.1 The following table sets out the contract values for 2007-08 79.8 financial year 2011-12 as agreed with each Probation 3 2008-09 67.8 Trust. These individual contract values may vary through 2009-10 69.6 the year but are as stated at the beginning of the 2010-11 71.4 financial year. There are some probation costs for specific 1 This includes £63 million for adult prisons and £6.4 million for young people’s secure settings. offender related initiatives not embedded in the contracts 2 Figures from 1999-2000 to 2007-08 include CARATs (Counselling, Assessment, and therefore excluded from the following table. Referral, Advice and Throughcare service), YPSMS (Young People’s Substance Misuse Services) and intensive drug rehabilitation programmes as well as £ funding from the Department of Health for clinical interventions (detoxification and maintenance prescribing). Avon and Somerset 19,333,606 3 Figures from 2008-09 to 2010-11 exclude Department of Health funding for clinical interventions. Bedfordshire 8,961,763 Cambridgeshire 9,477,363 Cheshire 14,128,825 Probation Trusts Cumbria 8,044,553 Derbyshire 12,660,000 Devon and Cornwall 18,238,328 Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Dorset 8,456,415 (1) how much his Department and its predecessor spent Durham and Teesside 21,753,119 on probation trusts in each year since 1995; [60003] Essex 18,606,086 (2) what budget he has set for each probation trust in Gloucestershire 7,015,050 each year of the comprehensive spending review Greater Manchester 47,931,520 period. [60007] Hampshire 23,019,664 Hertfordshire 10,909,353 Mr Blunt: The information is as follows: Humberside 15,730,000 Kent 19,483,690 Financial period 1995-96 to 2000-01 Lancashire 23,061,088 Prior to 2001-02, local probation committees were Leicestershire 14,020,000 financed partly by local government under a different Lincolnshire 8,851,000 financial regime. NOMS are therefore unable to answer London 137,512,000 this element of the question. Merseyside 28,845,962 Norfolk and Suffolk 19,101,436 Financial period 2001-02 to 2009-10 North Yorkshire 9,445,000 Probation Trusts have only been in existence since Northamptonshire 8,642,000 April 2008, following the implementation of the Offender Northumbria 27,786,481 Management Act 2007. Nottinghamshire 18,018,000 South Yorkshire 23,589,000 The following table has been compiled to illustrate Staffs/West Midlands 68,626,000 the costs of probation boards/trusts over the 2001 to Surrey and Sussex 25,109,812 2010 financial period using the annual net operating Thames Valley 24,602,317 costs. Wales 52,297,000 Warwickshire 6,562,000 £ million West Mercia 14,336,000 Boards and Trusts Trusts included in Financial year expenditure expenditure West Yorkshire 38,385,000 Wiltshire 6,932,312 2009-10 899 194 Total 819,471,743 2008-09 897 112 2007-08 845 — 2006-07 807 — Comprehensive Spending Review Period: 2012 to 2015 2005-06 770 — Given the demanding settlement the Department received 2004-05 687 — we are continuing to finalise our savings plans for the 2003-04 674 — remainder of the SR period, and as a result detailed 2002-03 605 — budgets for individual trusts are not yet available. 2001-02 576 — Notes: 1. The figures for financial years 2001-02 to 2007-08 are the net operating costs Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice recorded in the annual consolidated accounts of local probation boards. These what output measures his Department will use to assess accounts are available from the House Library. the performance of probation trusts over the 2. The figures for 2008-09 and 2009-10 are taken from the National Offender Management Service (NOMS) Agency annual accounts and supporting data. comprehensive spending review period. [59903] 3. Following standard accounting practice, local boards. and trusts. pension contributions are not fully reflected in the figures. 4. Expenditure on probation met centrally by the National Probation Directorate Mr Blunt: Orders or Licences Successfully Completed, (as was) and the National Offender Management Service is not included in local Employment at Termination and Accommodation at areas’ expenditure. Termination are the output measures which currently 5. Comparisons over time are difficult due to changes in accounting methodology. form part of the data-driven performance assessment of 109W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 110W probation trusts. These output indicators compliment a Defendants remanded in custody by magistrates and outcome of proceedings1, 2 range of measures in the Probation Trust Rating System 2010 , England and Wales 3 (PTRS), including the key outcome Reducing Reoffending, Outcome Remanded in custody by magistrates quality measures from HMI Probation and engagement Immediate custody5 8.5 indicators such as Offender Feedback and Victim Feedback. Otherwise dealt with6 1.7 In addition to the measures in the formal performance Total number sentenced 19.4 assessment, the probation contracts contain a number of targeted output measures including Sustained Committed for sentence: Employment, Education Awards, Sex Offender Treatment on bail 0.5 Programmes Completions, Domestic Violence Completions, in custody 5.1 Offending Behaviour Programme Completions, Drug Rehabilitation Requirement Completions, Alcohol Committed for trial: Treatment Requirement Completions and Community Payback Completions among other measures used for on bail 2.6 assurance purposes. in custody 22.9 Total 58.3 There is an annual cycle of review on measures, 1 Committal cases where the remand status is not recorded are excluded from targets and the contents of the PTRS model. In line the breakdown, but included in the totals. with this Government’s policy direction the review is 2 Data for 2010 are estimated. 3 Includes those remanded for part of the time in custody and part on bail. focused to be less prescriptive with the aim of reducing 4 Includes community rehabilitation orders, supervision orders, community the burden of data collection on the front line. The punishment orders, attendance centre orders, community punishment and introduction of Payment By Results (PBR) will be rehabilitation orders, curfew orders, reparation orders, action plan orders and detention and training orders. reflected in the future performance framework. 5 Includes detention and training orders and unsuspended imprisonment. 6 Includes one day in police cells, disqualification order, restraining order, Rehabilitation and Treatment of Offenders confiscation order, travel restriction order, disqualification from driving, ASBO and recommendation for deportation and other disposals. Note: Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Some figures may not sum due to rounding. how much funding for the rehabilitation and treatment Defendants remanded at the Crown court1 before trial or sentence, and outcome of offenders was contributed to his Department’s of proceedings, 2010, England and Wales programme by the (a) Department for Education and Remanded in custody2 its predecessors, (b) Department of Health, (c) Committed for Committed for Department for Work and Pensions and its predecessors Outcome trial sentence and (d) Department for Business, Innovation and Skills Acquitted or not proceeded etc. 4.7 0.0 and its predecessors in each year since 1995. [59892] Convicted: Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice does not hold Discharge 0.2 0.0 information on the contribution by other Government Fine 0.0 0.0 Departments for the treatment and rehabilitation of Community sentence3 2.0 0.7 offenders. It does hold information on income received Fully suspended sentence 1.9 0.8 from the Departments specified, but this may not be for Immediate custody4 25.9 5.5 rehabilitation or treatment and would only be part of Otherwise dealt with5 0.7 0.3 the funding by those Departments. Most of the funding by those Departments will be made to service providers outside of the National Offender Management Service Total number sentenced 30.7 7.4 (NOMS) who provide services to offenders on behalf of Failed to appear 0.2 0.0 their respective Departments. Total 35.6 7.4 1 Crown court cases are not necessarily concluded in the same year as the Remand in Custody committal. 2 Includes those remanded for part of the time in custody and part on bail. 3 Community rehabilitation orders, supervision orders, community punishment orders, attendance centre orders, community punishment and rehabilitation Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice orders, curfew orders, reparation orders, action plan orders and drug treatment how many people held on remand in 2010 (a) were and testing orders. subsequently acquitted, (b) received a community 4 Includes detention in a young offender institution, detention and training orders and unsuspended imprisonment. sentence and (c) received a custodial sentence. [59913] 5 Includes one day in police cells, disqualification order, restraining order, confiscation order, travel restriction order, disqualification from driving, ASBO Mr Blunt: Defendants remanded at the magistrates and recommendation for deportation and other disposals. Note: and Crown courts, and outcome of proceedings in Some figures may not sum due to rounding. 2010, can be viewed in the tables as follows. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services - Ministry of Justice. Defendants remanded in custody by magistrates and outcome of proceedings1, 20102, England and Wales Outcome Remanded in custody by magistrates3 Young Offenders Acquitted or not proceeded etc. 7.2

Convicted: Ben Gummer: To ask the Secretary of State for Discharge 1.5 Justice what plans he has for future provision for young Fine 2.3 adult offenders aged (a) 18 to 21 and (b) 18 to 24 Community sentence4 3.7 following the implementation of proposed changes to Suspended sentence 1.7 the functions of the Youth Justice Board. [59943] 111W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 112W

Mr Blunt: The Government have decided to abolish All IAC pilot schemes came to an end in March 2011. the Youth Justice Board (YJB) and deliver its main The five area pilot process evaluation and findings functions from a newly created youth justice division from the Derbyshire and Manchester IAC pilot schemes within the Ministry of Justice. These functions include are being prepared for publication. A summary of general the oversight of youth offending teams, disseminating findings across all seven of these IAC pilots is to be effective practice, commissioning a distinct secure estate published in July. and placing young people in custody.The YJB is responsible The MOJ are exploring the possibility of conducting for offenders aged under 18 so its abolition will not an evaluation of the IAC pilots which will compare impact on provision for young adult offenders. reoffending rates for all IAC offenders with reoffending Young Offenders: Alternatives to Prison rates for similar offenders receiving custodial sentences of less than 12 months. Sadiq Khan: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) pursuant to the answer of 13 May 2011, Official Report, column 1362W,on young offenders: alternatives to prison, BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS if he will place in the Library a copy of the interim process Apprentices evaluations of the Intensive Alternative to Custody pilot schemes in (a) Dyfed-Powys, (b) Humberside, (c) Robert Halfon: To ask the Secretary of State for Merseyside, (d) South Wales and (e) West Yorkshire; Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer [59979] of 7 June 2011, Official Report, column 216W, on (2) pursuant to the answer of 13 May 2011, apprenticeships, how many employer places are registered Official Report, column 1362W, on young offenders: on the National Apprenticeship Service matching service; alternatives to prison, which of the probation trusts and how many applicants have been deemed unsuitable which were piloting the Intensive Alternative to Custody for places. [59666] prior to 31 March 2011 have now made that provision Mr Hayes: Apprenticeship vacancies (on line system) mainstream; [60109] data show that employers posted 58,870 apprenticeship (3) what the name is of each pilot of intensive community vacancies between 1 August 2010 and 31 May. There orders in England and Wales; when he expects each to were 9,500 live apprenticeship vacancies as at 1 June. come to an end; and when he expects to have evaluated Information on the number of applicants deemed unsuitable the findings from each pilot. [59904] for an apprenticeship vacancy is not available. Apprenticeship vacancy reports are updated on a Mr Blunt: The Intensive Alternative to Custody (IAC) monthly basis and published on the fourth day of each pilot schemes in Dyfed-Powys, Humberside, Merseyside, calendar month at the following link: South Wales and West Yorkshire were evaluated together. http://mireportslibrary.thedataservice.org.uk/apprenticeships/ There was no formal interim evaluation. The final report apprenticeship_vacancy_reports/ of the five-area process evaluation is currently being Data provided in the answer of 7 June, Official Report, prepared for publication. column 216W, has been updated and is provided in the In respect of the probation trusts which were piloting following tables covering the same time period as the the IAC schemes before 31 March 2011 I can provide above information. Table 1 shows the number of individuals the following update about whether the provision of who have activated their account on the system between IAC has been mainstreamed: August 2010 and May 2011. Table 2 shows the overall the Wales Probation Trust has mainstreamed IAC provision number of applications submitted between August 2010 across Wales; and May 2011. Manchester Probation Trust has mainstreamed IAC provision Table 1: Total number of individuals activating their account on Apprenticeship in Manchester and Salford; Vacancies, August 2010 to May 2011 Humberside Probation Trust has mainstreamed IAC across all Individuals activating Apprenticeship the adult court sites in Humberside; Vacancy Account Merseyside Probation Trust continues to offer IAC in Liverpool 16-18 185,130 and there are plans to expand provision during the next year; 19-24 118,520 in Derbyshire, learning from the IAC pilot has been used to develop an Intensive Community order (ICO), which has been 25+ 51,110 offered to courts across Derbyshire from May 2011 as a Total 354,760 sentencing option targeted at those offenders at risk of being Table 2: Total number of Programme Applications made by age group, August sentenced to short custodial terms; and 2010 to May 2011 West Yorkshire Probation Trust has continued to offer IAC in Total number of Programme Bradford and Leeds, and is planning to mainstream IAC Applications across all the remaining three districts in West Yorkshire: Calderdale, Kirklees and Wakefield. 16-18 313,660 The name of the Intensive Alternative to Custody 19-24 152,710 pilots were as follows: 25+ 24,680 Total 491,050 Manchester IAC; Notes: Merseyside IAC; 1. Figures for programme applications do not indicate individuals who have West Yorkshire IAC; made applications, they are the total number of applications made and it is important to note that any one individual can make more than one application Humberside IAC; at any given time. Wales IAC (although these were initially called Intensive 2. Figures in table 1 are the latest year to date data, from 1 August 2010 up to Supervision and Control (ISAC)); and 30 April. 3. All figures have been rounded to the nearest 10. Derbyshire IAC (now re-branded as Intensive Community Source: Order (ICO)). Apprenticeship Vacancy Reports 113W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 114W

Apprenticeship places are secured through a range of Business: Industrial Health and Safety sources. Between August 2010 and January 2011 there 1 were 213,400 apprenticeship starts in England. Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, 1 Information on the number of apprenticeship starts is published Innovation and Skills (1) what assessment his Department in a quarterly statistical first release (SFR). The latest SFR was has made of the administrative requirements on businesses published on 31 March: arising from health and safety legislation; and if he will http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/statistical firstrelease/ make a statement; [58862] sfr_current (2) what assessment he has made of the effect of the administrative burden of health and safety regulations Banks: Loans on the priority given by businesses to (a) compliance with legislation and (b) the implementation of effective Chris Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, health and safety measures; and if he will make a Innovation and Skills (1) whether HSBC Holdings plc statement; [58871] are subject to the agreement that bankers’ (3) if his Department will assess the merits of remuneration would be linked to lending targets; [61063] implementing the recommendation of the Davidson (2) who signed the Project Merlin agreement on Review that the Health and Safety Executive should exempt the self-employed from certain health and safety behalf of the banks; [61064] legislation in low-risk sectors. [58872] (3) which individuals are subject to the Project Merlin agreement that bankers’ remuneration would be Mr Prisk: The Department has an established working linked to lending targets. [61065] relationship with the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) and I am delighted that this Government is implementing Mr Prisk: The Merlin commitment to lending has the recommendations from Lord Young’s recent review been made by Barclays, HSBC, Lloyds Banking Group, of HSE in the UK. As these questions suggest, there are The Royal Bank of Scotland and Santander. a number of ideas in circulation about how the UK’s HSE regime could be still further improved in ways that Lending to small and medium enterprises (SMEs) reduce the costs and burdens to business. I will be very will be part of the performance metrics of each bank’s interested to see the impact of proposals developed by chief executive and those of the senior managers responsible the Ministry of Justice to tackle the “litigation culture”, for business lending. in the wake of Lord Justice Jackson’s consideration of The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and the “no win, no fee” conditional fee arrangements Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (November 2010). In addition, there is a current (Vince Cable), has written to each of the bank’s chairman independent review commissioned by the Minister for to ask them to explain clearly how their incentives for Employment my right hon. Friend the Member for senior managers are linked to SME lending. Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) of HSE legislation which is being undertaken by Professor Ragnar Löfstedt, Business Director of the Centre for Risk Management at King’s College, London. I also look forward to hearing the views of business and other stakeholders when the Red Christopher Pincher: To ask the Secretary of State for Tape Challenge turns its attention to HSE at the end Business, Innovation and Skills how many people of June. representing small and medium-sized businesses located in (a) the UK, (b) Staffordshire and (c) Tamworth Carbon Emissions constituency (i) he, (ii) Ministers in his Department and (iii) officials in his Department have met in the last 12 Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for months. [59976] Business, Innovation and Skills what consideration he has given to (a) including in the Green Economy Roadmap a commitment to (i) measure and (ii) reduce Mr Prisk: BIS Ministers and officials regularly engage the UK’s total carbon footprint and (b) the reckoning with organisations and individuals representing small in the calculation of that footprint of (A) emissions and medium sized enterprises from across the UK. This from consumption and (B) outsourced emissions includes regular meetings of the Entrepreneurs’ Forum, embedded in imports. [57700] chaired by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, and the Small Business Economic Forum, which I chair. Mr Prisk [holding answer 7 June 2011]: The Green All meetings that BIS Ministers have with external Economy Roadmap is designed to provide businesses organisations are published quarterly at with clarity about the transition to a lower carbon http://www.bis.gov.uk/transparency/staff economy and how it affects them; it is not the appropriate with data currently available up until December 2010. vehicle for assessing the UK’s total carbon footprint or weighting contributions to that footprint. The Government As the lead on local enterprise partnership (LEPs) will continue to monitor emissions according to current policy, I am meeting all LEPs which include representatives standards. of small and medium sized businesses across England. To date I have met with 21 partnerships and am due to Companies: North West meet with the Stoke and Staffordshire LEP at the beginning of July. BIS Local West Midlands also have regular John Pugh: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, engagement with representatives of small and medium Innovation and Skills what the monetary value is of businesses in Staffordshire as part of their day to day financial support received by companies in the North working. West through the Regional Growth Fund. [59063] 115W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 116W

Mr Prisk: Details of bids from round 1 of the Regional In higher education we are establishing a new framework, Growth Fund and conditional offers made, remain with increased responsibility on universities to widen commercially confidential until the process of due diligence participation. Higher education institutions will be is completed. encouraged to identify candidates with the ability and potential to succeed, offering those that might need Departmental Procurement extra support the appropriate assistance. For full-time students in higher education a comprehensive package Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for of grants and loans is available through the student Business, Innovation and Skills what progress his finance system, with extra support for students with Department has made in encouraging small businesses adult or child dependants in the form of an Adult to bid for Government contracts. [60179] Dependants’ Grant, Childcare Grant and Parents’ Learning Allowance. From 2012/13 eligible new part-time students Mr Prisk: The Department is committed to supporting will not pay upfront tuition charges and will be able to the Government-wide initiatives set out at the small and access loans in order to pay for their tuition, as is the medium enterprises (SME) strategic supplier summit case for full-time students. on 11 February 2011, notably the launch of Contracts Finder the Government portal for tendering opportunities EU Law over £10,000. The portal is entirely free, online service enabling small businesses to search for, and receive free Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, email alerts of public sector contract opportunities. The Innovation and Skills for what EU directives in force on full list of measures can be found on the Cabinet Office 1 April 2010 his Department is responsible; and what website at: EU directives for which his Department is responsible http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/news/government-opens- have come into force since 1 April 2010. [60729] contracts-small-business. In addition to working to implement these initiatives, Mr Prisk [holding answer 17 June 2011]: The stock BIS has agreed with Cabinet Office a further set of of EU legislation in force is set out in the Eur-Lex actions - such as providing notification of its tendering database: requirements in advance by use of a Prior Information http://eur-lex.europa.eu/en/index.htm Notice for Official Journal of the European Union It would be of disproportionate cost to review the entire procurements or similar to provide a greater degree of stock to establish which pieces of legislation were currently notice to the market, enabling SMEs to be better placed the responsibility of BIS or its predecessor Departments. to bid for government contracts. Full details are available at: There are a number of directives, which have come http://www.bis.gov.uk/about/procurement into force since 1 April 2010, for which the Department To help small businesses build skills and capacity and has responsibility. The directives are of varying natures support SMEs access public procurement opportunities, and implications and I will write separately providing a BIS has designed (with input from across both the detailed list. public and private sectors) a free on-line public procurement EU Law: Economic Growth training course ‘Winning the Contract’ available on the businesslink website at: Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, www.businesslink.gov.uk/winningthecontract. Innovation and Skills what criteria he plans to use to Additionally, following the closure of the previous assess any recommendations resulting from the work Government procurement portal “Supply2.gov”, and with Government undertaken by GSK, Balfour Beatty, to enable small businesses to freely download, analyse Kingfisher and Tribeka Limited to consider the effect of and gain a better understanding of what, and how EU legislation on UK growth opportunities. [59525] Government buys, BIS has made available all Government historical contract data (published on the site, from Mr Prisk: As announced in Budget 2011, the 2006 to 2011), on its transparency page at: Government are working with four companies, Balfour http://www.bis.gov.uk/transparency/supply2gov. Beatty, GSK, Kingfisher and Tribeka Ltd, to find ways to improve European growth opportunities for UK Education: Carers businesses. All four companies will have the opportunity to contribute equally to this work and each company Dr Francis: To ask the Secretary of State for will be given equal weight. Business, Innovation and Skills what recent discussions Central to the Government’s assessment of specific he has had with carers organisations on steps to ensure contributions will be the extent to which they illustrate that carers receive equal opportunities to access further opportunities and problems for the wider sector from or higher education by (a) part-time and (b) full-time which they are drawn so that the evidence provided can mode; and if he will make a statement. [58988] be used for the broadest possible positive impact on the UK economy. Mr Hayes: This Government have been very clear about the importance of widening participation and Fees and Charges: Students improving access to further and higher education. Adult carers have been given consideration as part of the Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, enhancements to adult learner support for students in Innovation and Skills if he will place in the Library a further education. Representative bodies were invited to copy of the legal advice his Department has received on discussions earlier this year to help formulate the policy. the entitlements of EU students to (a) fee waivers, Carers are eligible to apply for learner support funds as (b) fee discounts and (c) the National Scholarship appropriate and this will remain the case for 2011-12. Programme; and if he will make a statement. [60868] 117W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 118W

Mr Willetts: Legal advice obtained by the Department Mr Willetts [holding answer 16 June 2011]: Data on is confidential and the subject of legal professional previous school type are available from the Higher privilege. Education Statistics Agency (HESA) and cover state It will be for universities themselves, as autonomous schools, independent schools, FE institutions, HE institutions, to obtain their own legal advice to ensure institutions and those with unknown or missing that their provision in respect of fee waivers and fee information. They do not identify separately those who discounts conforms to current legislation. attended maintained schools and sixth-form colleges.

Foreign Students Higher Education: Anti-Semitism

Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has Business, Innovation and Skills (1) what information made of the number of British citizens who attended his Department holds on the use of the Working university in (a) EU countries and (b) the US in the Definition of anti-Semitism; whether he has had recent last academic year for which figures are available. discussions with universities on the definition; and if he [60899] will make a statement; [R] [60422] (2) what definition of anti-Semitism his Department Mr Willetts: In 2008, it is estimated that 24,750 UK uses; what recent discussions he has had with the students were enrolled at institutions outside the UK, Jewish community on its definition since May 2010; and studying for a degree awarded by an overseas and if he will make a statement; [R] [60423] institution. Of these, an estimated 10,250 UK students (3) whether (a) he, (b) Ministers in his Department were studying in EU-27 countries, and 8,400 were estimated and (c) officials in his Department have had recent to be studying in the USA. These figures exclude students discussions with the Union of Jewish Students; and if who undertake short-term exchange programmes as he will make a statement; [R] [60534] part of their UK degree. (4) what recent representations he has received from Source: the Union of Jewish Students; what response his OECD online database and Eurostat online database. Department gave to such representations; and if he will Please note, there is no common basis for the collection make a statement. [R] [60535] of data on ‘foreign/mobile’ students—countries use one or more of the following classification criteria: Mr Willetts: The Department does not hold information citizenship; about the use of the European Union Agency for usual/permanent residence; and Fundamental Rights (FRA) working definition of anti- country of prior education. Semitism. It is public knowledge that it has been adopted Each method has its own strengths and weaknesses by the National Union of Students. We have not held but they will give different results in each country, so the discussions with universities about definitions of anti- figures quoted above need to be treated with caution. Semitism, or about any specific definition used by the BIS-commissioned research concluded that OECD data Department with the Jewish community. tend to over-estimate the true number of diploma-mobile The UK Government currently uses the Macpherson students by up to 10%. definition of a racist incident which is an incident that is perceived as racist by the victim or any other person, Green Investment Bank and this would include anti-Semitism. I met with the Union of Jewish Students (UJS) Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for towards the end of last year, alongside the hon. Member Business, Innovation and Skills what meetings he has for Bassetlaw (John Mann) (as the Chair of the All-Party had with representatives of potential locations on the Parliamentary Group Against Anti-Semitism), the proposed location of the Green Investment Bank. Community Security Trust and Higher Education (HE) [60974] sector bodies such as Universities UK (UUK) and the Equality Challenge Unit (ECU) to discuss the experiences Mr Prisk: I have met with the Secretary of State for of Jewish students in HE. My officials have met with Scotland, my right hon. Friend the Member for the UJS to discuss the Prevent strategy, and the recent Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (Michael Moore) motion concerning the European Monitoring Centre on 5 April and representatives from the Edinburgh on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC, now the FRA) Green Investment Bank Group on 30 March both at working definition of anti-Semitism agreed at the University their request. and College Union’s annual congress. The Government’s position is clear, anti-Semitism Higher Education: Admissions and intolerance have no place in our society and no place in higher education. Staff and students from all Mr Clappison: To ask the Secretary of State for backgrounds, cultures and communities must be welcome Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer in our higher education sector. of 24 May 2011, Official Report, columns 645-46W, on The UK has in place one of the strongest legislative higher education: admissions, how many UK-domiciled frameworks to protect people from harassment and full-time first degree qualifiers at UK higher education abuse, and specifically racial or religious persecution. institutions who previously attended (i) maintained schools This framework provides protection to Jewish people and (ii) sixth-form colleges achieved each degree alongside other ethnic and religious groups. As independent classification in the academic year 2009-10. [60245] organisations, higher education institutions are directly 119W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 120W accountable for compliance with the law and hold the Mr Prisk: Nothing has changed since my answer of primary responsibility for ensuring that their staff and 12 May 2011, Official Report, column 1349W. students are not subject to threatening or abusive behaviour on campus. One North East In addition to legal requirements, institutions have access to a range of practical guidance to help them Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for ensure fair treatment of their staff and students, and to Business, Innovation and Skills what (a) land and (b) help them deal effectively with instances of intolerance, other assets will be transferred from One North East to racism and harassment in their institutions. the Homes and Communities Agency in each local authority area in the North East. [59950] The Government would expect institutions to vigorously tackle intolerance on campus when it arises. Mr Prisk: BIS is currently working with the Department Intellectual Property for Communities and Local Government and others to agree arrangements to manage some regional development agency land and property assets. No decisions have yet Adam Afriyie: To ask the Secretary of State for been made, we hope to make an announcement soon. Business, Innovation and Skills on what date the Intellectual We aim wherever possible to protect the intended economic Property Office will publish the findings of its consultation and regeneration benefits to local areas of developing on patent infringement in pharmaceutical clinical and these assets, and allow local partners to influence the field trials; and when the Government plan to respond way they are developed. to any recommendations made. [60588] PA Consulting Mr Davey: There is little I can add to my previous answer on this subject given on 10 June 2011, Official Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Report, columns 517-18W. The Government do not Business, Innovation and Skills whether UK Trade & plan a separate response to any recommendations arising Investment has set any objectives for PA Consulting to from the Intellectual Property Office’s consultation since reach in respect of direct investment in each region. those recommendations will be cleared with Ministers [58456] in the usual way. Publication of the findings will take place either at the same time as the recommendations or Mr Prisk [holding answer 9 June 2011]: UK Trade & earlier if possible. Investment (UKTI) contracted in March 2011 with PA Consulting (PA) for the delivery of services to support Mary Portas foreign direct investment into the UK. That contract contains targets for PA for the quantity and quality of Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for successful investment projects into the UK that they Business, Innovation and Skills (1) whether Mary support. Portas will receive remuneration from his Department UKTI has not set specific objectives for PA in terms for her work on the high street retail review; [58099] of regional dispersal of investment projects. However, (2) what remuneration Mary Portas will receive for UKTI is committed with PA to monitoring new investments leading the independent review on the future of the against the broad regional profile of previous years. high street. [60745] Should significant disparity with previous investment levels in any UK region/devolved Administration arise, Mr Prisk: Mary Portas is not being paid for her work UKTI will assess the reasons, and take action as necessary. on this review. Close dialogue with local partners (including local enterprise partnerships and devolved Administrations) will be an North Sea Oil important part of this assessment process. Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Press: Competition Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer of 12 May 2011, Official Report, column 1348W, on North Sea oil, Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for on what dates prior to the Budget Statement of 23 Business, Innovation and Skills what assessment he has March 2011 meetings took place between Ministers in made of the effect on consumer interests of present his Department and Ministers in the Treasury on the arrangements for the regulation of the newspaper and implications for investment in North Sea oil and gas magazine distribution industry. [60113] fields of changes to taxation. [60678] Mr Vaizey: I have been asked to reply. Mr Prisk: Nothing has changed since my answer of The Secretary of State has made no assessment. 12 May 2011, Official Report, column 1348W. Competition matters relating to the effects on consumer interests from the distribution arrangements covering Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, the newspaper and magazine industry fall to the Office Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer of 12 May of Fair Trading. 2011, Official Report, column 1349W, on North sea oil, on what dates prior to the Budget Statement of 23 March Trade Agreements 2011 meetings took place between Ministers in his Department and Ministers in the Department of Energy Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for and Climate Change on the implications for investment Business, Innovation and Skills what his policy is on in North Sea oil and gas fields of changes to taxation. non-tariff barriers in the negotiation of free trade [60679] agreements. [60611] 121W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 122W

Mr Davey [holding answer 17 June 2011]: Eliminating Mr Davey [holding answer 17 June 2011]: Non-tariff non-tariff barriers (NTBs) to trade and, as far as possible, barriers (NTBs) can be a more significant barrier to preventing the establishment of new NTBs, is a key UK trade than tariffs, especially for trade between developed objective in Free Trade Agreement (FTA) negotiations. countries. For this reason, the EU and the UK prioritise We agreed annexes to address NTBs in the EU-South the elimination of NTBs in free trade agreements (FTAs). Korea FTA, and we are pressing hard for NTBs to be For the EU-South Korea, the elimination of NTBs in tackled in other FTAs, including the EU-lndia FTA the final agreement was the major factor behind the where addressing NTBs in the automobile sector is a anticipated gains increasing from ¤19 billion (in earlier particular priority. estimates) to ¤33 billion to the EU.

Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for UK Trade and Investment: Expenditure Business, Innovation and Skills if he will estimate (a) the cost to UK manufacturers and (b) the effects on Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for levels of growth of non-tariff barriers in free trade Business, Innovation and Skills what the monetary agreements with (i) India, (ii) South Korea and (iii) value of investment by UK Trade and Investment has Japan. [60613] been in respect of (a) North Yorkshire, (b) Yorkshire and the Humber, (c) England and (d) the UK since Mr Davey [holding answer 17 June 2011]: The benefits May 2010. [60269] to the EU from tackling non-tariff barriers (NTBs) in free trade agreements (FTAs) can be substantial but in Mr Prisk [holding answer 16 June 2011]: Companies all trade deals there will be some adjustment costs. For investing in the UK are not required to disclose the the EU-South Korea, the elimination of NTBs in the value of their investments to UK Trade and Investment final agreement was the major factor behind the anticipated (UKTI). UKTI records the number of foreign direct gains increasing from ¤19 billion (in earlier estimates) investment projects entering the UK each year. The to ¤33 billion. Negotiations on the EU-India FTA are inward investment results for the UK, including North ongoing, and negotiations with Japan are yet to be Yorkshire, Yorkshire and the Humber and England, for launched. In both, the reduction of NTBs will be a key the financial year 2010/11 will be announced on 11 July UK objective. 2011. Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, UK Trade and Investment: Manpower Innovation and Skills what industry organisations he consulted prior to the signing of each UK and EU free trade agreement made since 12 May 2010. [60615] Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many UK Trade and Investment Mr Davey [holding answer 17 June 2011]: For all fair staff are (a) based in and (b) dedicated to each region trade agreement (FTA) negotiations the Department of England. [60270] regularly consults with a wide range of business stakeholders to update them on the status of negotiations, and to Mr Prisk [holding answer 16 June 2011]: People make sure that we understand their concerns and priorities. working for UKTI are either employees of the Department We consulted businesses and business federations for Business, Innovation and Skills or the Foreign and throughout the negotiations of the EU-South Korea Commonwealth Office or from the private sector through FTA and in the lead up to signature in September 2010. our contracted out delivery arrangements. In the English regions there are 58 civil servants and 299 private sector Trade Agreements: EU External Trade employees. The following table sets out the number of people based in and dedicated to each region.

Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Region Number of people (May 2011) Innovation and Skills what steps his Department has taken to prepare the removal of non-tariff barriers East of England 38 when negotiating EU free trade agreements. [60612] East Midlands 36 London 44 Mr Davey [holding answer 17 June 2011]: In all free North East 26 trade agreement (FTA) negotiations, the UK undertakes North West 29 its own analysis and consults widely with business South East 52 stakeholders to ensure that we identify and prioritise South West 44 those issues, including non-tariff barriers, which matter West Midlands 56 most to UK business. Non-tariff barriers (NTBs) have Yorkshire & Humber 32 formed a key part of the market opening of the EU Total 357 FTAs with developed countries such as EU-South Korea. The removal of NTBs in EU is very much in our interests to improve the functioning of the single market, UK Trade and Investment: Yorkshire and the Humber which is our largest export market. Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Mr Denham: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many inquiries UK Trade Innovation and Skills what assessment he has made of and Investment received in relation to (a) investment, the effects of non-tariff barriers on the competitiveness (b) general help and advice and (c) help and advice of UK companies in relation to the countries with relating to exporting from businesses in Yorkshire and which the EU has free trade agreements. [60614] the Humber in the financial year 2010-11. [60268] 123W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 124W

Mr Prisk [holding answer 16 June 2011]: The UK The Department is now recording separately business transacted Trade & Investment Inquiry Service received 24,476 with SMEs. This will help target actions to increase the level of trade and investment inquiries by telephone and e-mail contracts awarded to SMEs and monitor the effectiveness of in 2010-11. The Inquiry Service do not record where an those actions . inquiry originates. The Department encourages early supplier involvement, where possible through bidders’ conferences, in order to promote wider market engagement at the pre- procurement stage. The Department encourages innovation in contract specifications and, where appropriate, innovation is included as part of the ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE evaluation criteria of tender exercises. This helps encourage the smaller enterprises that tend to operate in the energy innovation Climate Change field.

David T. C. Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Electric Cables Energy and Climate Change what estimate of average global temperature his Department and its predecessors Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy used when considering policies on climate change in and Climate Change what discussions he has had with each of the last 15 years. [61059] Ofgem on provisions to minimise the visual impact of overhead power lines on landscapes. [60088] Gregory Barker: During the past 15 years, DECC and its predecessors have taken note of the annual Charles Hendry: To date, engagement by the Department global average surface temperature estimates made by of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) with Ofgem on the UK Met Office and Climatic Research Unit, and the visual impact of overhead power lines has been at NASA and NOAA in the United States. These have official level as part of Ofgem’s next transmission price been published in various journals and assessed by the control review (RIIO-T1). This has involved bilateral IPCC and other scientific bodies. discussions, correspondence and participation at stakeholder During this period all these analyses show yearly and events such as the Price Control Review Forum and short term temperature fluctuations, which are due to RIIO Working Groups. Where new and replacement natural variations in the climate system, and a continuing pylons are required, DECC is keen to support the underlying upward trend in global temperatures. It is development of the most visually acceptable overhead the long-term upward trend in the temperature record solutions. The Royal Institute of British Architects is that is the main reason for concern over climate change. therefore running a competition on behalf of DECC and National Grid that calls for designs for a new Departmental Carbon Emissions generation of pylon. A key element to the competition will be a public consultation exercise in September which will provide members of the public with a chance Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State to comment on the best designs. Further details are for Energy and Climate Change whether his available from: Department has plans to generate low-carbon energy http://www.ribapylondesign.com/ from its estate. [61218] Energy Gregory Barker: The Department has a very small estate and has authority over only two buildings, 3 Whitehall Place and 55 Whitehall in London. As part of Mr Meacher: To ask the Secretary of State for our strategy for reducing the carbon emissions from our Energy and Climate Change if he will establish a public estate and operations, we have plans to explore the inquiry into transparency in the energy market and the feasibility of generating low carbon energy at these merits of introducing an enforceable requirement for buildings. clarity at each stage. [60138]

Departmental Procurement Charles Hendry: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 16 June 2011, Official Report, column 892W. Julian Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what progress his Energy (Definition and Promotion) Act 2009 Department has made in encouraging small businesses to bid for Government contracts. [60186] Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change when he expects to implement the Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and provisions on general permitted development rights of Climate Change (DECC) has introduced the following the Green Energy (Definition and Promotion) Act policies to encourage small and medium sized entities 2009. [60923] (SMEs) to bid for its contracts: Disclosure of more information about public procurement Gregory Barker: A statutory instrument will be laid opportunities, including information about major projects in the before Parliament shortly to prepare the way for new pipeline for small businesses and social enterprises to view. The Department’s contracts with a value of over £10,000 are now permitted development rights for the domestic installations published in full online and free of charge through the procurement of micro wind turbines and air source heat pumps as web-portal “Contracts Finder”. the Green Energy (Definition and Promotions) Act For all procurements under the EU threshold, the Department 2009 requires. I will continue to work with colleagues at has eliminated pre- qualification questionnaires which may previously the Department for Communities and Local Government have deterred or ruled out SMEs from bidding. on this. 125W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 126W

Energy: Conservation Gregory Barker: A number of organisations representing tenants, whether as their sole focus or under a broad Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for remit of representing consumers, feed into the Green Energy and Climate Change whether permanent Deal forums and associated sub-groups: The National energy efficiency saving schemes will be eligible to Organisation of Residents’ Associations, North West receive support from the Capacity Mechanism. [61042] Tenants and Residents Assembly, Shelter, National Union of Students, Consumer Focus, Citizens Advice, Age Charles Hendry: The Government are committed to UK, and Which?. encouraging and incentivising energy efficiency within Microgeneration the home, and in the public and private sectors, and have a range of policies in place to achieve this including current measures such as the Carbon Reduction Stephen Mosley: To ask the Secretary of State for Commitment (CRC), Carbon Emissions Reduction Target Energy and Climate Change which of the microgeneration (CERT) and Community Energy Saving Programmes technologies eligible for (a) feed-in tariffs and (b) the (CESP), and future measures such as the Green Deal Renewable Heat Incentive have been subject to formal and the Energy Company Obligation (ECO). life cycle analysis. [59747] DECC is currently developing a White Paper which Gregory Barker: There is a wide body of research will set out proposals for Electricity Market Reform into the lifecycle performance of technologies supported (EMR), including the proposed Capacity Mechanism. by both feed-in tariffs and the renewable heat incentive. We recognise that demand side measures have an important For example, two UK specific studies estimate average contribution to make in supporting the transition to a carbon footprints of 88 gCO2eq/kWh for domestic solar low-carbon generating mix and ensuring security of 1 photovoltaics and 68gCO2eq/kWh for 600W micro-wind . supply. A key element of that is to consider how to Carbon footprints for such systems have been falling ensure our policies on security of supply incentivise due to efficiency improvements in their production. For demand side measures where it can deliver energy security comparison, another UK study estimates a carbon footprint in the most cost effective way. of 488 gCO2eq/kWh for electricity from a combined We are considering views raised in response to the cycle gas turbine2. EMR consultation on demand-side issues in development In practice, life cycle carbon and energy footprints of the White Paper, which we intend to publish before will vary between installations, depending for example the summer recess. on the suitability of the site and the impact of this on performance. Energy: Finance 1 Allen SR et al, 2008, Proc ICE: Energy, 161, 73-86 and Allen SR & Hammond GP, 2010, Energy, 35,2223-2234. Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for 2 Odeh N & Cockerill TT, 2008, Energy Policy, 36, 367-80. Energy and Climate Change how much funding from the public purse his Department allocated to each Nuclear Power energy sector in the latest period for which figures are available. [59720] Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of 7 June Gregory Barker: Budgets for 2011-12 have been allocated 2011, Official Report, column 108W, on nuclear power, to energy sectors as follows: when he expects to publish his conclusions on the consultation on proposed changes to the Paris Convention Sector Expenditure (£ million) and Brussels Supplementary Convention on nuclear third party liability. [60546] Nuclear 44 Renewables 15 Charles Hendry: The consultation on the changes to Oil and Gas 13 the Paris Convention and Brussels Supplementary Carbon Capture and Storage 12 Convention on nuclear third party liability ran from 24 Other Low Carbon 70 January to 28 April. Officials are now reviewing the Historical Energy Liabilities 2,355 responses received. (nuclear and coal) We intend to publish a summary of responses and a This represents 78% of the total budget for 2011-12 Government response later this year. of £3.0 billion. The remaining budget will mainly be Nuclear Power Stations spent on combating fuel poverty in the UK, programmes to improve energy efficiency and international energy Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and climate change issues. and Climate Change what account he has taken of the risk of natural disasters in his plans for new nuclear Energy: Private Rented Housing power stations. [60847]

Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Charles Hendry: Companies operating or intending Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of to operate nuclear power stations must make safety 13 June 2011, Official Report, column 580W, on energy: assessments, which are assessed by the Office for Nuclear private rented housing, which organisations representing Regulation. The events that the operator must consider tenants are feeding into one of the Government’s four include flooding, seismic activity and extreme weather. industry-led forums for the Green Deal. [60863] The safety assessment should demonstrate that threats 127W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 128W from external hazards are either removed, minimised or Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for tolerated. This may be done by showing that safety Energy and Climate Change what recent discussions he related plant and equipment are designed to meet has had with the devolved administrations on his decision appropriate performance criteria against the postulated to set new feed-in tariffs for small-scale low-carbon external hazard, and by the provision of safety systems electricity. [61249] which respond to mitigate the effects of the event. Gregory Barker: The Secretary of State for Energy Radioactive Waste and Climate Change, my right hon. Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne), has included Ministers in the Scottish and Welsh Assembly Governments, and Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy their officials, in discussions leading up to the recent and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of 7 June decision to introduce new tariffs following the fast track 2011, Official Report, columns 112-3W, on radioactive review of the feed-in tariffs. The FITs scheme does not waste, which prospective operators of new nuclear plants apply in Northern Ireland. have expressed an interest in entering a radioactive waste transfer contract. [60545] Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change when he plans to hold Charles Hendry: Three consortia—NNB Genco (EDF a comprehensive review of the feed-in tariff scheme. Energy, Centrica), Horizon Nuclear Power (RWE Npower, [61250] E.ON) and NuGeneration (Scottish and Southern Energy, GDF Suez, Ibedrola) have announced plans to build Gregory Barker: On 7 February 2011, the Secretary new nuclear power stations in the UK. DECC officials of State for Energy and Climate Change, my right hon. are in regular contact with the three consortia on a Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Chris Huhne), announced range of issues and this has included discussions relating the start of the first comprehensive review of feed-in to the possibility of entering into a waste transfer tariffs (FITs). This review is now under way and we are contract at some point in the future. currently considering responses to a call for evidence on the review’s scope which formed part of the recently concluded fast-track consultation on FITs. We are intending Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs to consult on more detailed proposals in the summer.

Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Renewable Energy: Heating and Climate Change what information his Department holds on the take up of feed-in tariffs in (a) the UK Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for and (b) Germany; and if he will make a statement. Energy and Climate Change whether (a) the renewable [60844] heat incentive and (b) the renewable heat incentive premium payment will apply to new-build housing. Gregory Barker: Real time data on feed-in tariffs [59313] (FIT) uptake in the UK are available on Ofgem’s website. DECC also publishes a monthly summary of these data Gregory Barker: The Government plan to introduce on its website. The latest data relate to schemes confirmed support for households through phase two of the renewable onto the FITs scheme at the end of May 2011. The heat incentive (RHI) in October 2012 alongside the following table shows the latest figures and those for Green Deal. We are currently looking at the eligibility end of March 2011, which was the end of the first full criteria and considering whether new build properties year of the FITs scheme. should be supported and will consult on our proposals FIT uptake by technology by the end of 2011. End March 2011 End May 2011 Details of the criteria for the renewable heat premium Capacity Capacity payment (RH PP) will be available shortly. Technology Number (kW) Number (kW)

Anaerobic 3 1,766 4 3,926 Scotland digestion Hydro 205 9,866 214 11,911 Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Photovoltaics 28,505 77,848 37,640 104,744 Energy and Climate Change what proportion of Wind 1,329 18,917 1,465 20,326 contracts issued by (a) his Department and (b) MicroCHP 98 98 138 139 agencies for which he is responsible were awarded to Total 30,140 108,494 39,461 141,047 small and medium-sized enterprises in (i) Scotland, (ii) South Lanarkshire and (iii) Rutherglen and Hamilton The German feed-in tariff system is that country’s West constituency in the latest period for which figures primary renewable energy incentive scheme, covering all are available. [60201] scales (whereas the renewables obligation is the UK’s primary incentive for large-scale renewable electricity Gregory Barker: From April 2010 the Department generation). It has been in operation since 2000, and up for Energy and Climate Change (DECC) has awarded to 2009 it supported 45,677 MW of generation (German 2% of its contracts, amounting to four contracts, to data are from the International Energy Agency, which small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) located in collects information on renewable capacity from all Scotland. One of these businesses is based in Strathclyde member countries, and 2009 is the latest date for which so could be located in either the South Lanarkshire or data are available). the Rutherglen and Hamilton West constituency. 129W Written Answers20 JUNE 2011 Written Answers 130W

The data available from the Department’s arm’s length Gregory Barker: In the first year of operation 28,000 bodies are about orders rather than contracts and show solar photovoltaic (PV) installations were confirmed that: under the GB feed-in tariffs scheme, totalling over 1) The Coal Authority has placed 1.5% of its orders with 77 megawatts (MW) of installed capacity. In the first SMEs based in Scotland and 0.3% of its orders with SMEs based two months of this financial year, close to a further in Lanarkshire. 150 installations were completed per day. 2) The Nuclear Decommissioning Authority (NDA) placed There are two UK-based manufacturers of PV panels: 1.5% of its orders with suppliers based in Scotland. The NDA is Romag and Sharp Solar. unable to determine whether the orders related to SMEs without incurring the disproportionate expense of examining all individual Solar Power: Public Buildings orders. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Solar Power Energy and Climate Change what his Department’s most recent estimate is of the number of (a) schools, Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State (b) hospitals, (c) other public buildings and (d) community for Energy and Climate Change what his most recent buildings that will be fitted with solar photovoltaic estimate is of the number of solar farms with a installations with a generating capacity between 50 and generating capacity greater than one megawatt that will 100 kilowatts under the feed-in tariff scheme in the year be installed and commissioned before 1 August 2011. after 1 August 2011. [61247] [61248] Gregory Barker: The design of tariffs under the feed-in Gregory Barker: To date, Ofgem have not approved tariffs (FITs) scheme, as completed by the last Government, any applications from PV schemes with an installed is based on the technology and generation capacity of capacity greater than 1 MW.However, from discussions the installation and not on generator type. Therefore, with the industry I anticipate that some schemes of this we do not currently have the information requested size will be generating before 1 August 2011. DECC’s either for existing installations or future installations. current understanding is that the total capacity of such As confirmed in the recent Government response to schemes could be around 40 MW. the fast-track review of the FITs scheme, the intention is that from 1 August 2011 a new tariff of 19.0p/kWh Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State will apply to solar photovoltaic installations of between for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he 50 and 150 kW. We consider that this will deliver a has made of the UK’s performance in developing solar 5% internal rate of return for well located installations, photovoltaics. [61251] which could include those on community buildings.

ORAL ANSWERS

Monday 20 June 2011

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT .1COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Business Rates...... 14 continued Empty Homes...... 11 Planning...... 13 Fire and Rescue Services ...... 9 Senior Pay (Local Government)...... 12 Fiscal Autonomy (Local Authorities)...... 16 Service Provision...... 4 Fraudulent Claims (Local Authority Funding) ...... 7 Topical Questions ...... 16 Home Ownership...... 8 Transparency (Local Government Spending)...... 14 Housing (Armed Forces Personnel) ...... 3 Unauthorised Development...... 10 New Homes Bonus...... 6 Weekly Refuse Collections...... 1 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Monday 20 June 2011

Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 1WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 2WS Burdens on Local Government ...... 1WS Appointment of National Employment Savings Trust Corporation Trustee Members...... 2WS HEALTH...... 1WS Government Response to NHS Future Forum...... 1WS PETITION

Monday 20 June 2011

Col. No. Col. No. ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 1P Dolphins (Japan) ...... 1P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Monday 20 June 2011

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS...... 112W CABINET OFFICE...... 68W Apprentices...... 112W Cabinet Committees ...... 68W Banks: Loans ...... 113W Death: Cancer...... 69W Business ...... 113W Departmental Manpower...... 69W Business: Industrial Health and Safety...... 114W Departmental Procurement...... 70W Carbon Emissions...... 114W EU Law...... 70W Companies: North West...... 114W Government Departments: Billing ...... 71W Departmental Procurement...... 115W Life Expectancy ...... 71W Education: Carers ...... 115W Life Expectancy: Older People ...... 71W EU Law...... 116W Minimum Wage ...... 72W EU Law: Economic Growth...... 116W Older Workers: Scotland ...... 73W Fees and Charges: Students...... 116W Third Sector...... 73W Foreign Students ...... 117W Unemployment ...... 74W Green Investment Bank ...... 117W Higher Education: Admissions ...... 117W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT . 48W Higher Education: Anti-Semitism...... 118W Audit Commission: National Audit Office ...... 50W Intellectual Property ...... 119W EU Grants and Loans: Yorkshire and the Mary Portas...... 119W Humber ...... 50W North Sea Oil...... 119W Fire Services...... 51W One North East...... 120W Heating: Registration ...... 53W PA Consulting...... 120W Housing: Leeds ...... 54W Press: Competition...... 120W Housing: Pendle...... 49W Trade Agreements ...... 120W Local Government: Complaints...... 54W Trade Agreements: EU External Trade ...... 121W Local Government Resources Review ...... 49W UK Trade and Investment: Expenditure ...... 122W Localism Bill: Wales...... 49W UK Trade and Investment: Manpower ...... 122W Oil...... 55W UK Trade and Investment: Yorkshire and the Private Rented Housing: Standards ...... 55W Humber ...... 122W Public Sector: Land...... 55W Col. No. Col. No. COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— continued continued Rent Service: Red Fish ...... 55W Diplomatic Service: Internet ...... 20W Social Housing...... 48W Egypt: Politics and Government ...... 21W Trade Unions ...... 56W Libya: Diplomatic Relations ...... 21W Libya: Freezing Orders...... 22W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 10W Libya: Overseas Students ...... 22W Listed Places of Worship Grant Scheme ...... 10W Oil...... 22W Local Broadcasting ...... 11W Saudi Arabia: Armed forces...... 23W Olympic Games 2012 ...... 11W Serbia: Kosovo...... 23W Tourism...... 12W Sri Lanka: Missing Persons...... 23W UN World Conference Against Racism ...... 24W DEFENCE...... 37W Aircraft Carriers ...... 37W HEALTH...... 56W Armed Services: Greater London ...... 38W Alcoholic Drinks: Misuse...... 56W Departmental Procurement ...... 39W Ambulance Services: Standards ...... 57W EU Law ...... 39W Care Homes ...... 57W Ex-servicemen: Alcoholism...... 39W Care Homes: Standards ...... 58W Ex-servicemen: Prisoners ...... 39W Care Quality Commission: Finance ...... 58W Ex-servicemen: Suicide ...... 40W Care Quality Commission: Manpower...... 59W Gulf States: Royal Military Academy...... 40W Departmental Ministerial Responsibility ...... 59W Merlin Helicopters...... 41W Departmental Procurement...... 60W Nuclear Submarines ...... 41W Doctors: Foreign Workers...... 60W RAF Leuchars...... 41W Health: Screening...... 61W Royal Irish Regiment ...... 42W Hospitals: Private Finance Initiative ...... 61W World War One: Anniversaries ...... 42W Medical Equipment: EU Action ...... 61W Mental Health Services: Prisons...... 62W EDUCATION...... 42W NHS: Reorganisation...... 62W Academies: Brighton ...... 42W Oil...... 64W Children: West Midlands ...... 43W Perinatal Mortality ...... 65W Departmental Renewable Energy...... 45W Primary Care Trusts: Warrington...... 65W Departmental Responsibilities ...... 45W Psoriasis...... 65W Design: Curriculum ...... 45W Respite Care: Finance ...... 66W Home Education...... 46W Safety of Blood, Tissues and Organs Advisory Marriage Guidance: Grants...... 46W Committee ...... 66W Schools: Bolton...... 47W Scotland...... 67W Schools: Capital Investment ...... 47W Southern Cross Healthcare Services: Care Homes . 67W Schools: Rural Areas ...... 47W Southern Cross Healthcare: Wales ...... 67W Teachers: Pensions ...... 47W Tobacco Free Lancashire: Finance...... 68W Teachers: Training ...... 48W Transplant Surgery...... 68W University Technical Colleges...... 48W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 3W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 123W Animal Experiments ...... 3W Climate Change ...... 123W Asylum: Expenditure ...... 4W Departmental Carbon Emissions ...... 123W Criminal Records: Voluntary Work...... 5W Departmental Procurement...... 123W Identity and Passport Service: Aberdeen...... 5W Electric Cables ...... 124W Incentives...... 6W Energy...... 124W Overseas Workers...... 6W Energy: Conservation...... 125W Police: Bureaucracy...... 7W Energy (Definition and Promotion) Act 2009 ...... 124W Scotland...... 7W Energy: Finance ...... 125W Sexual Offences: Registration...... 7W Energy: Private Rented Housing ...... 125W Stalking: Crime Prevention ...... 8W Microgeneration...... 126W Nuclear Power...... 126W INDEPENDENT PARLIAMENTARY Nuclear Power Stations...... 126W STANDARDS AUTHORITY COMMITTEE ...... 16W Radioactive Waste...... 127W Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 127W Parliamentary Standards Authority ...... 16W Renewable Energy: Heating ...... 128W Scotland...... 128W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 25W Solar Power...... 129W Departmental Procurement ...... 25W Solar Power: Public Buildings ...... 130W Developing Countries: Vaccination...... 25W Health Services: Overseas Aid...... 26W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Libya: Armed Conflict...... 26W AFFAIRS...... 14W Maldives: Overseas Aid...... 27W Departmental Vacancies ...... 14W Overseas Aid...... 27W Motor Sports: Noise ...... 14W Scotland...... 27W Recycling: Greater London...... 15W Rivers...... 15W JUSTICE...... 84W Assets...... 84W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE .... 20W Belmarsh Prison...... 84W BRIC Countries...... 20W Community Orders ...... 84W Col. No. Col. No. JUSTICE—continued TREASURY ...... 75W Compensation Orders ...... 85W Bank Services...... 75W Compensation: Young People ...... 86W Banks...... 77W Courts...... 91W Child Benefit: EU Nationals ...... 77W Crown Courts ...... 93W Double Taxation: Israel ...... 77W Custody: Young People...... 96W Economic Situation...... 77W Departmental Manpower...... 97W European Investment Bank: North Africa ...... 78W Departmental Pensions ...... 97W Excise Duties: Fuels ...... 78W Drugs...... 97W Financial Policy Committee...... 78W Drugs: Alcoholic drinks...... 98W Financial Services Authority...... 79W Drugs: Females ...... 98W Financial Services: City of London...... 79W Drugs: Offences ...... 98W Financial Services: Taxation ...... 79W Legal Costs ...... 99W Government Procurement Card ...... 80W Life Imprisonment ...... 100W Inflation...... 80W National Offender Management Services: Loans: Republic of Ireland ...... 80W Managers...... 101W Monetary Policy ...... 80W Police Cautions ...... 102W National Insurance Contributions ...... 81W Prison Sentences: Methadone ...... 102W Northern Rock plc ...... 81W Prisoners ...... 102W Oil...... 81W Prisoners: Drugs ...... 104W Tax Avoidance ...... 82W Prisoners: Training...... 105W Taxation: Self-assessment...... 82W Prisoners’ Release: Sexual Offences...... 103W UK Banks: Ireland...... 82W Prisons: Drugs ...... 106W VAT: Channel Islands ...... 82W Probation Trusts ...... 107W VAT: Tourism...... 83W Rehabilitation and Treatment of Offenders...... 109W Working Tax Credits: Lone Parents ...... 83W Remand in Custody ...... 109W Young Offenders ...... 110W WALES...... 1W Young Offenders: Alternatives to Prison ...... 111W NHS...... 1W

WOMEN AND EQUALITIES...... 8W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 1W Departmental Regulation...... 8W Departmental Regulation ...... 1W Equalities and Human Rights Commission ...... 9W EU Law...... 1W Government Equalities Office: Manpower...... 9W

PRIME MINISTER ...... 2W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 28W Joint Ministerial Committee ...... 2W Carer’s Allowance ...... 28W Members: Correspondence ...... 2W Carers Week...... 28W Northern Ireland Assembly...... 2W Departmental Procurement...... 29W Royal Irish Regiment: Parades ...... 2W Disability Carers Service: Correspondence...... 29W Disability Living Allowance...... 29W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 30W SCOTLAND...... 13W Employment and Support Allowance: Mental Departmental Regulation...... 13W Health...... 31W EU Law...... 14W Employment Schemes ...... 31W Employment Schemes: Voluntary Organisations.... 32W TRANSPORT ...... 16W Incapacity Benefit ...... 33W A1: East of England ...... 16W Incapacity Benefits: Appeals ...... 33W Bicycles ...... 16W Industrial Injuries ...... 33W Bus Services ...... 17W Jobcentre Plus: Manpower ...... 33W Bus Services: Fees and Charges...... 17W Jobcentre Plus: Reorganisation ...... 34W Bus Services: Finance...... 17W Jobseeker’s Allowance ...... 34W Bypasses: Lincoln ...... 17W Jobseeker’s Allowance: Coventry...... 34W East Coast Railway Line: Contracts...... 18W Life Expectancy ...... 35W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 18W Members: Correspondence ...... 35W Invalid Vehicles: Regulation ...... 19W Office for Nuclear Regulation ...... 35W Motor Vehicles: Sales...... 19W Poverty: Children ...... 36W Motorways: Repairs and Maintenance...... 19W Shared Housing: Bradford ...... 36W Roads: Tolls ...... 19W Unemployed People: Public Transport...... 36W Rolling Stock ...... 20W Work Capability Assessment...... 37W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

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CONTENTS

Monday 20 June 2011

List of Government and Principal Officers of the House

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government

Eurozone (Contingency Plans) [Col. 23] Answer to urgent question—(Mr Hoban)

Pensions Bill [Lords] [Col. 41] Motion for Second Reading—(Mr Duncan Smith)—on a Division, agreed to Programme motion—(Steve Webb)—agreed to

Petition [Col. 134]

Private Gary Barlow [Col. 135] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 1WS]

Petition [Col. 1P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 1W] [see index inside back page]