Discussing Complexity and Leadership with Gerrit Zalm
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Bridging discussion: DISCUSSING COMPLEXITY On a rainy December day we, Liselore Havermans and Nicoline Mulder, ventured to the shiny headquar- ANDters of ABN LEADERSHIP AMRO together with our host Hans Rigtering. We moved WITHfrom the VIP lounge to a spacious office with magnificent views of the Zuidas for a talk about complexity and leadership with Gerrit Zalm, CEO of ABN AMRO and former Minister of Finance. In this conversation, we introduced some results from GERRITour research on dealing ZALM, with complexity in projects andCEO project-based organizations OF in order to get his ABNperspective AMRO on these results in the context of leading a complex organization. ABN AMRO IS COMPLEX ENOUGH FOR ZALM Zalm characterizes himself as an analytically strong omnivore, interested in everything that comes his way. When asked to lead ABN AMRO he asked whether this would be something for him. The answer was: ‘It is complex enough for you’. Describing the nature of complexity within ABN AMRO, Zalm starts off listing more structural issues regarding complexity such as IT infrastructure, three lines of defense, segregation of duties, and regulations. When asked about less tangible aspects of complexity he adds the silo mentality that comes with working in separate entities. This shows in the expression: ‘that’s not my responsibility’. Though Zalm sees his analytical abilities as the basis for his success, in his current role people issues have become core, AUTHORS and thus leadership a crucial element of his role. He characterizes the way ABN AMRO has been led in the past as LISELORE HAVERMANS, NICOLINE MULDER Stalinist with everything being structured and fixed, and [email protected] Projectie Magazine | 01-2015 14 Bridging discussion: sees a role for himself as a liberal in liberalizing the way of respond to their environment in a way that is as complex as working at the bank. Showing his famous laugh, he jokes their environment. Instead he aims to bring simplicity into a that he is too old to change himself, so he will just have to complex environment. One way of doing this is through change the bank instead. Which is especially important in a simple rules such as the business principles that are in time when, as he jokingly puts it, the respect for bankers is place at ABN AMRO (e.g. I aim for the best solution for my lower than that of bank robbers and equal to that of client). These simple rules place emphasis on certain DISCUSSING COMPLEXITY A SYMBOLIC LEADERSHIP ROLE politicians. important issues and give guidance in how to deal with these issues. While recognizing the value of bottom up initiatives to deal AND LEADERSHIP WITH Zalm notices that people often give more weight to his with complexity, Zalm indicates the goals and methods are words than he does himself, and recognizes that through his still determined top down. Space for bottom up initiative is actions and language he has an important symbolic created within these predetermined goals and methods by leadership role. Simply going to one meeting, and not to providing employees some freedom in working with these GERRIT ZALM, CEO OF another, sends a message as to what he considers important, methods by finding the best solutions to reach these goals and emphasizes certain issues over others. The same is true themselves. An example of a change initiative that is for the issues he chooses to talk about. This is why Zalm organized in this way is the customer excellence program. considers it important to write a daily blog about his When we discuss the need to let go and give others space to ABN AMRO activities for all employees, give speeches or ‘preach’, and do their work in unexpected and tough situations, he practice exemplary behavior. Through these activities he emphasizes the need to take control and be the captain of can influence the mood in the organization and highlight the ship in times of need. What is interesting though, is that what is going well and what should be improved. His in his years at ABN AMRO he has not come across a recognition of the role of language in leadership fits nicely situation yet which he would consider a crisis. This might with developments in the leadership literature that mean that through his years of experience he has gained a emphasize how language is not just a mirror of reality, but different perspective on what entails a crisis situation, and shapes it. is able to remain calm and give people space to do their ADDICTED TO PROJECTS work in situations which they might consider as a crisis. One way in which he raises difficult issues is through humor. For example, in his yearly cabaret performance (in which he surprised everyone last year by performing as his Bringing the conversation to our world of projects, Zalm ‘sister’ Priscilla) or in speeches with humorous themes such immediately says there are way too many projects. His as ‘How to become a bad manager’ or ‘The higher up, the impression is that ABN AMRO is addicted to projects, and dumber’. In trying to open up the culture of ABN AMRO and that work only counts when it is organized as a project. He make the Board of Directors more accessible he also hosts posits that it is not always necessary to set up a whole regular meeting with employees who want to talk about project organization to get something done. He would like what is going well and what should be improved within the to bring back the amount of projects as a lot can be done BRINGING SIMPLICITY INTO A COMPLEX ENVIRONMENT bank. without a project structure, just by arranging things directly with your colleagues. Here the exciting conversation with Gerrit Zalm ended and When we bring up the idea of leading towards requisite our challenge continues. What does this all mean for the complexity, or in other words responding to your world of project management? Have we created so much environment in a way that is just as complex as your structure in project work that instead of enabling us, it is environment, Zalm is not fully convinced. Although he is limiting us to deal with our ever changing and complex interested in a wide variety of issues and the complexity environment? Questions to further explore: that’s why we these bring, he thinks people would go crazy if they would continue performing research in this area. IPMA Projectie Magazine 01-2015 | 15.