I n k , Vol. XXVUf—fro. 4* fatw fay, AgrU 4, i y »
LOK SABHA DEBATES
(Seventh SeMdon)
{V ol. X X V III contains Nos. 3 1 — 4 0 )
LOK SASHA SECRETARIAT NHW DCDLHI
q njp, (Dn**n) mu aanxnro* ( v o b d o k ) CONTENTS C o u n t* *
Paper laid on the Table ...... 974 £ Petitition regarding excise duty on oil produced by Pinto (Wooden) C h e k k u s ...... 974 * Leaveof A b s e n c e ...... Business of the House ...... 974 ^ Demands for Grants . 974 S--991* Ministry of Transport and CommunicatkHis 9745 — 9896 Shri Vajpayee ...... 9749—56 Shri Osman Ali Khan ...... 975 ®—6» Sardar Iqbal Singh ...... 97 ®1— 69 Shri P. K. Deo ...... 9 7 6 9 -7 4 Shri. Manahendca Shah...... 9774 — ®° Shri Harish Chandra Mathur ...... 9780—88f Shri Raj Bahadur 9788-—98if Shri Braj Raj Singh ...... 9818— 2$ Shri Tangamani ...... 982a— *7 Shri Bhakt Darshan ...... 9827—-35 Ch. Ranbir Singh ...... 9835— 39 Shrimati Ila Palchoudhuri ...... 9^39—44 Shri J.B.S. Bist ...... 9 8 4 4 ~ 4 7 Shri Rajendra Singh ...... 9848— 51 Shri S. K. Patil ...... 9852— 90 Ministry of Labour and Employment .... 9896—9912 Shri Nanda...... 989&-9911
Daily Digest ...... 99*3“* Consolidated Contents [March 20 to April 4> I959/Phalgun» 29, 1880 (Saka) to Chaitra 74,1881 (Saka)]...... LOK SABHA DEBATES
9743 9744
LOK SABHA 11.01 brs Saturday, April 4, 1959/ Chaitra 14, PETITION RE EXCISE DUTY ON 1881 (S aka) OIL PRODUCED BY PINTO (WOOD EN) CHEXXUS The Lok Sabha met at Eleven of the C lock Shri N. R Mnnisamy (Vellore): I beg to present a petition signed by a [Mr Deputy-Speaker tn th e C hair] petitioner regarding excise duty on oil produced by Pinto (Wooden) Chekkus. PAPER LAID ON THE TABLE
Report of Ganga Brahmaputra W ater Transport Boars ior the 1101 h is y e a r 1958 The Minister of State in the Minis LEAVE OF ABSENCE try of Transport and Communications (p Shn Chcwkhfrnoon Gohain 17th November to 20th December, 1958 (Sixth Session) and 9th February to 28U1 February, 1959 (Seventh Session). (2) Shri Chandramaii Kalr 19th February to 15th March, 1959 (Seventh Session) 0)JDr K. B Menon 3rd March to 10th April, 1959 (Seventh Sest.on) (4 ) Shri Chapalakanta Bhattacharyya n th February to 20th March, 1959 ''Seventh Session) l j ) Shri Chhada Lai Gupta 1st March to 28th April, 1959 ('Seventh Session). (6) Shn Bishanchandar Seth 9th February to 1st March, 1959 (Seventh Session). (7) Sardar Baldev Singh 9th February to 8th April, 1959 (Seventh Session). (8) Shnman Mafida Ahmed 9th February to 20th March, 19^9 (Seventh Session) (9) Maulana Abdur Rahman 9th February to 20th March, 1959 (Seventh Session) (10) Kunwarani Vijaya Rate • 9th February to 8th April, 1959 (Seventh Session). (11) Shri Jogendra Sen-Mandi 7th March to 23rd March. 1959 (Seventh Session). (12) Shri Jogendra Nath Hazanka 23rd February to 20th April,. 1959 (Seventh Session). 23 (AiJ L.S.D.—1 9745 Demandt APRIL *. IMP ■ fo r Qrtnta {Mr. Deputy-Speaker!) I take it that the House Agrees with number of hon. Members are — the recomendationrf of the Com to participate in the discussion of mittee. these Demands, but they could not get Ben. Members: Yes. time yesterday. I am afraid, if we adhere to the schedule, they will not Mr. Deputy- Speaker: The Mem get tfcne even today. I would, there bers wil be informed accordingly. fore, request you to extend the time by one hour. If the House agrees to sit till six o’clock, then they can have 11.0S hi*. 2 hours. But, so far as Government BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE are concerned, I am not in a position to spare more than 1 hour. So, you The Minister el Parliamentary may consult the House; if the House Affairs (Shri Satya Narayan Sinha): agrees to sit till six o'clock, then With your permission, Sir, I rise to they can have 2 hours more; other announce that Government Business wise, if they sit till five o’clock, Gov for the week commencing 6th April ernment are prepared to extend it by will consist at:— one hour. (1) Further discussion and voting of the Demands for Grants Shri Naoshlr Bliarncha (East relating to the Ministry of Khandesh): I think we should not sit Labour and Employment; and till six o'clock today, because as it Is, we are sitting on a Saturday, and (2) Discussion and voting of the it will be a difficult task for us to Demands for Grants in res make up for other work. pect of the Ministries of— Food and Agriculture, Shri Rajendra 8 •Moved with the jecommendstion of the President. 9747 Demand! CKAXTRA 14, 1S81 (SAKA) fo r Grant* 974' 8 Start B a m (Buldana): Let it be covered, and which have to be put ten minOtea. forward. Mr. PB fty-gpwtot: If a large Shri Satya Narayan Sinha: Whal number of MA&bers desire to be ac h*s been the derision of the House? commodated, then we shell have to cut It down to ten minutes. Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Members are in favour of having 15 minutes. Shri Harish Chandra Matter (Pali): It Is not sufficient Shri Satya Naiayan Slnha: I did B [Shri Rajendra Singh] hours. Within this, how can we ac f & w *n n w U f a t o w n * W commodate ouadm r v4trif<«rt % trepn: 11 m x Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Thfc hon. «#to q o» rftp *rfcr Sf *T*r, eft Member should not put it like this that 8 hours were allotted to us. That v s m £ tftr snrf^fe ir^sifiwivflNr included the time for the Ministers $ fir ^v» v^srrtt t i V R ta*W also. > wr fl^snw ^rrnn amr, « t w w rtt Shri T. B. Vtttal Kao (Khammam): X •'* *TW vn? #?w forr *RIT ^ When will the other Minister be cal fnHnfwf *t ftra* anrstfcmfrTiftr led? V «o «TRl W * I I Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Hie senior Mkiister? 3 hours 25 minutes now ^ snrz: f u fkfvNr wftwre remain; with t h e one-hour extension, we have 4 hours and 25 minutes. So, f«^ *n» t i farr ^ a t about 3-30 p .m . he will be called % 'fH Pw t «n i ^3*T«Pt vft Shri Naushir Bhamcha: Not 3*30, fSp^far f w r »nrr, z h f t f*n w «w n |, b u t 2 30 p . m . f i r lr * f t i wrrwr?*Tv *m Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Yes, he will ihrrspr^ jn^tT ^ i be called at 2'30 p .m . WRnr?|fa^Tf3rst?ft5n5 ?^PrMNr wnrwV avras v jt ,o o » ^ 'Tterg- tpnr b fh r m flnrpr % % faff HT5T *T| Tlftr *TfT *(*T ct»oo *qrr ^ f t *Tf | I * sft >fft »n»f jr^er f t *rf f , vt *rf i, 5W lr itrt^ if *ft *n[ qr* fffe w & *rfir *t$ «npfr ? ? f a f a r % n r w 3 wtft & fr f* «ft fir# t « T a w r -5 h n w , > finwr w *f?i zn-Wt vra^Brr-jhR^T *fhc ^ $ 1 fsprpr * n m ti f t w r tt ifm $ tfa: W mzr snre $ iff x m n t Vffffgg fTT^t i| I f t storr j? ^ar *ft f t «rf fc 1 eft afhrhr ntwt; «jer ^1 fa*T *11 *R flwi i?Wt I 1 wfor qifaftre t jj ^ mi ir«$4t 4 h f*rtw fa*nr t «*# ? « H » * inr t w o «o 1 ft !wt» TT fiWT *WT fc I ft nf 3 ^msrerT g fa from (P sd^w tr^ i?r iwiff $f % w * # *rft ^5t >iw w i tt I ^ntMTfT*ft v t 2fnft 3*r A *prnrer if)1 ^g?r ^ i w gPw w f ^ ^r*fr. «r? fw i t e p ip * Sr ^er JPifsr f>WT w t ?t, rr*rr ^ W t ffT W Hr n z i f e % T O ? * JTTT fU T * ftwrf fcn i *n*n? aufwi ^Rrr t i w fa^*ft ^ fepn^ $ i ^rrcPr f ? fcfre * 3Tfr Vq^lfm'T % f s «3 ipftvrx fam w $ fa €t« *t« TTW^r TT |, 56RVR ^ 5TRJ h v u t t. % w^rarrct st fift TT< %9T 5 % Jrfjf 1T®^ fca sq rfc i **r % f » A ?nrfer ?f, ?rt t ^r«ui^ % %t*t 3? t o ^ r , s m ? 5tir i «ft Wnft ( ^ TTfrf) fflr 1tf?5T % ^TFm % 'Tr^TRT ^ ft* «fto ^ $?ft 11 m 5TT %.r ^Tcft % ®ft% 5(t JT?T fl^ T J eft ^ »ftfe»r >pt q ? m fa * % * x «ri «ftr *M wur vmtem % % i r f 3 *fr tmrvrm jfi $t t $ $ » W 4V41 I UV*-** % fis qsftSte *f ^ v t ■ ^,»^«.v,ooo ^ «rr t *rc $f «ft wwwft: '!<*»* JFT^ WW t « « ! - U % w w qaftfra # *r? rrftr whct | i # v4^nfwt«^t Sfar m i f v r J t* «ftr f fa t ifmFrmt « r «n ^ 9753 Dtmamd* APRIL f a » t o r Q r w n t a 9 7 5 4 [«ft TfThfl] $r #fiwr «Mt ^ *rf fw n m f t ftr It eft ^ f a * «qrw fipflf f t ^fis Sra*r «rc front «T«r ^ f t ntf, fw ftit w # ¥r w m i [Shri Osman A li Khan] places there has not been enough the issue of temporary pertnits for a traffic for the railways, there is no case fortnight at a time, excessive ****«<»», for the railways working for curbs to Rouble taxation and multiple taxation be imposed on road transport Indeed, On vehicles that ply on inter-State it is my view that the real problem routes. Now that the Report of the today that faces road transport is not Reorganisation Committee is before that of rail-road competition, but that government, I hope the Ministry will of development and reorganisation of take an eariy decision about the seve road transport itself. ral measures that have been suggest ed by that Committee. During the past year, during the several yean that have passed, road No doubt, there has been some im transport has not developed to the provement in the situation brought extent it should. In fact, it has not %bout by the recent amendment of the even developed 5 per cent of what it Motor Vehicles Act, by the appoint- could really have been developed. tnent o f the Inter-State Transport There is more than one reason for Council, by the passing of the Na this lag in development of road tional Highways Act and the amend transport The alien government was ment of the State Sank of India Act not interested in developing forms of However, the improvement that has transport alternate to the railways in l?een registered so far is not com which they were particularly inte mensurate with the needs of the in rested. But today when the country dustry. There is need for the appoint is free, when there is so much of de ment of Transport Finance Corpora velopment activity going on in the tions in the various States. The trans country and the country presents it port operators borrow money at exor self like a humming beehive, hum bitant rates of interest, and the for ming with activity all over the coun mation of Transport Finance Corpo try, when there is increase in agri rations will greatly help in obtaining cultural production and increase in finance at reasonable rates of interest industrial production, there is every tor road transport. The amendment of reason for different means of trans the State Bank of India Act is a step port to be developed, and particularly in the right direction, but I am told the case of road transport merits at' that due to many technical difficulties, tention because this industry of road the hire purchase companies are not transport is still in its infancy. «»ble to get advances from the Bank, it is for this reason that 1 suggest I am glad the Transport Ministry that a Transport Finance Corporation has appointed a Transport Reorgani is necessary in each o f the States. sation Committee which has completed its labours and whose report, I am About motor vehicles taxation, 1 told, is now before Government. Any Should say that it is reaching a stage one who is interested in the develop When it can be called a burden on ment of road transport is aware of ?oad transport. In addition to the ex the many handicaps, the burdens and cessive taxation being charged by the restrictions that are imposed on ♦Afferent States, the vehicles plying on toad transport. There were restrictions inter-State routes have to pay, as 1 imposed by the Motor Vehicles Act have already mentioned, double taxa of 1939, restrictions due to the code tion, and sometimes multiple tar^tfnp of principles and practice, restrictions The uncertainty about the future of due to rail-road co-ordination, restric toad transport is another factor that tions^ on account of the unsatisfactory is responsible for retarding the pro- oondition of bridges and roads, res- fnm of road transport The Central irictions on -the permissible laden Government has to direct the State weight of vehicles, restrictions due to Governments to categorically an nounce that gooas transport will not Demands CHAITRA 14, 1881 (SAKA) fo r G rant* 97 6o- be nationalised for the coming 10 01 For this more publicity is necesary. 19 years. The publicity that we are having to day is grossly inadequate. With pro I have also* to point out that the per publicity, it should be possible operational cost of road transport has for us to increase our foreign ex been steadily going up because of va change earnings from R$. 16 or Rs. 18 rious levies; both direct and indirect, crores that we are earning today, to imposed by the Central and State the figure of Rs 40 crores. A little Governments, and the least that can more publicity that may be neces be done is to remove the many un sary will be worth its while and this necessary and ill-conceived restric investment will pay huge dividends. tions from which road transport is suffering today. I am glad that the Transport Minis try has form ed a separate depart I have one more point which I ment for tourism in charge of a- particularly like to bring to the notice Director-General with a Deputy and 5 of the Transport Minister. The Gov- other directors, to undertake this eminent o f India, Sometime ago, had task. This department, well organised advised the State Governments that and geared up as it u, to promote the laden weight of the goods vehi tourism, I feel, should also undertake cles should be increased by 25 per the task of publicity abroad. How cent over what has been recommend can a department which is responsi ed by the manufacturers. The State ble for tourism not handle publicity Governments lost no time in accept abroad? These are two twin sub ing that recommendation. They jects and they are inseparable. It is straightway allowed this increase of .true that publicity is a specialised 29 per cent I particularly refer to subject and needs specialised atten one State, the State of Mysore, where tion by the specialised department of while, on the one hand, they increas the Information and Broadcasting ed the registered laden weight by Ministry. It should normally be the 25 per cent because it would help in case. But, in the case of tourism, collecting 25 per cent more of tax, on tourism and publicity abroad g o hand the other hand, they have taken away in hand; and I feel that our Trans the benefit by restricting the permit port Minister whose shoulders are ted laden weight to 9 tons. In this broad enough will not mind this ad manner, the step that has been taken ditional responsibility, in the interest by the Central Government to assist o f tourism road transport is really resulting in no benefit but in an actual increase Talking of tourism, I have also to in the cost of road transport. That say that to encourage tourist traffic much for road transport, Su Government had amended the Motor Vehicles Act so that a tourist coacb Coming to tourism, I may say that that obtains a permit from one R.TA. there is great need and there is great can go to any part of India without scope to develop tourism—the visit of counter-signatures. But this benefit tourists to this country. Hie country is really not being availed of because is rich in attractions for the visitors ’here is another handicap attached. from abroad. The ancient monuments The vehicles are held up at State like the Taj Mahal and the Kutb borders because the taxation baa Minar and the beautiful temples of to be paid in the various States. South 'India, the caves of Ajanta' and So, I suggest that, under the article Sllora, the beautiful hill sta in the Constitution which deals with tions like Simla, Ranikhet and policies of taxation, legislation has to Ootacamund tn the South, and the be passed so that a tourist coach that valleys and lakes of Kashmir offer pays taxation & one place will be really great attractions to tbe tourists allowed to go any part of India ka the world over. • the interests of tourism. $76i Dem ands APRIL 4. lftSft fo r Q ranu [Sbri Osman A ll Khan] I have just a word or two to say * fcraftrtf A aft s * irf«r £ i f about the India Airlines Corporation. The Indian Airlines Corporation, no Upf TW jp wTmwT 1 f I doubt, has made considerable pro f o p * gress and I have no hesitation to ad mit that considerable progress has been made during fecent years. The * | ? r 55f t i introduction of the Viscount has con dftw mRite % i w i f i f i r iwsr t siderably increased the passenger comfort and has resulted in speed and f% fanT v * A economy ef operation. Even the f c f t e f " tin * % faanff «Pt, srfesr vr #5?r»-^fTt i «ftwTt*Kft «nrw ^ ^ rt ft, eft «pc ?fr w «!^t | 1 t^t |TO ^ *t #f«W *w 5t % ferafa& A v fT$fcr VfT ^RIT ^ I fflfapr A a#arra*a 1 f*nft art A t a w *nfwr «mrr j fa fapr-f^r *pt £ * f ZpCRT | , afa*T ff^- urns ?ft*nr A ir w *r«r A f?im | ^TH % gftfy TW y ffrgtaiq % ^3*Wt ifcre VTTT % f?nf 5RTRT VtftRT vc*mr $, % fiw, PmihH % »St arra*ft errfp fanr TPRft vt # 5PT5r fipgPIR €t fcaa % ^ f« | » f*r frsrm t IfrgwM % yc *n«r ^ft <517 * 1 % M ftw % ^ [irorRfwrsr ftifl at £ fv ifcr f*nrr $ »# «w Now, the Balari Bar has deteriorated much in recent years, *nd the various experiments conducted in the Central v t f 9 h it *r $ ?ft 3ft f r f wt *s*r w Water and Power Research Station at Poona have shown that simply by * ?fr 5* St?ft *nf^ f% w *££*% *t dredging the silting matter would ^ *r 7$ £ 1 not improve, and the execution of suitable river training would be neces n * n f t jjk w^ftt «n 1 sary to make the Calcutta Port ser viceable. Shri P. K. Deo (Kalahandi): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, there is unani On the other hand, Sir, we find’that mity of opinion among all thinking It we .can spend Rs. 7 crores, accord- people that the country cannot develop mg to the French experts, we can be without developing its communication having a first class port at Paradip and transport capable of handling 4 million tons a t Cargo every year. Of these Rs. 7 Let us start with ports. Even though crores, Rs, crores could be spent India has a sea board of nearly 3000 on the purchase of a dredger and by miles there are very limited number the construction o f a 3300 feet sea of ports, and whatever ports we have, wall, we will be having a first class they are over-congested. To relieve port which could maintain a depth of the congestion, to relieve the bottle 40 feet and that too w ill "be very near neck of traffic, there should be many to the sea coast. more ports. Sir, the Calcutta Port is at a distance of nearly 80 miles from the sea. The Sir, let us take the east coast growth of Calcutta Port is a historical From the report of the Ministry we accident. It has come up because the find that 20 million dollars and 14 British landed there first. A British million dollars are available as loan physician cured a princess at Delhi from the International Bank for the of some disease, and that is why they -■ development of the Calcutta and got a few villages there to settle down Madras ports respectively, and for the first and later on to utilise that as development of the Vishah|apatnam their capital for their imperialistic Port Rs. 2 crores is being made avail expansion. That is how Calcutta de able from the United States Presi veloped as a port. dent’s South-East Asian Economic Development Fund. But nothing is Shrixoati Da Patehoadhar! (Nabad being spent for the development of wip): Sir, may I just interrupt the the ports in Orissa coast—Paradip and hon. Member? Chandbali ports—even though Orissa has a sea coast of 250 miles as against Mr. Deputy-8peaker: I will try to West Bengal’s 100 miles. give time to the hon. lady Member, Mid she might give her own position My hon. fri^pd Shri Raghunath then so far as this subject is concern Singh has so ably pointed out how ed. the Calcutta Port is getting silted up. Every year 12 million tons of sand Shrimati lla PaUhosdlrari: Calcut Is being dredged at a cost of Rs. 80' ta is considered as a natural port, Sir! lakhs, and even by spending that s much amount the port cannot main Shri P. K, Dm: If Calcutta would tain a deptii of morl than 22 feet—I have been a natural port, it woul^ Have been corrected by my friend not have been necessary to spend so tore that it is 18 feci touch amount every y^ar. 977X Demands CHA3TRA 14, 1881 (i$AKA) for Grants 977* i Now, coming to the second ship milig the Baitaram at Bhim Kund the yard, we feel that the most suitable bridge on the National Highway would site would be Paradip To build ship* be submerged If we could have we need iron sheets and plates. The thought of the Bhim Kund project two sheets and plates can only come from ye%rs back, we need not have spent Rourkela in Onssa, because Rourkela Rs 9 lakhs m havmg a bndge over is specialising in the production of Baitarani which is to be submerged. steel sheets and plates Whenever a*t*r two years you may have the second ship yard, the sheets and plates will doming to the various lmprove- have to come from Rourkela. T h e ments that are being effected in that British experts have not rejected Natxonal Highway No 6, even though Paradip, they have said that suitable th^re has been forceful acquisition o f land is available, and electricity and P^vate lands for improvement of the water are also available The last Natural Highway, up till now no report that they gave was in April, ^tapensation has been paid to the 1958 After that much water has flow P^ple of Deogarh and Kuchmda sub- ed down the Ganges The Rourkela Visions m Sambalpur So many per plant has been commissioned and sons, even though they have parted witi&in a few months we sfiaff fle pro wllb the land, have Tfcen pajnzif Imod ducing sheets and plates Therefore, revenue for land which has been al as the matter is now being referred ready taken over by the Government to the Inter-departmental High- *or improvement of the National power Committee for final selection of H ig h w a y the port, I request that they should then, m that Highway which passes give their thoughtful consideration to though the former Bamra State there the question of having the second ans innumerable number of wooden shipyard at Paradip bridges Only last summer while 1 w^s passing that way in my jeep 1 Coming to the question of roads, *°4nd that because of forest fire these roads are the mam artenes of the w4oden bridges get burnt and only nation, which supply life blood for its structures remain. This tune i growth and for its progress. Even veVy nearly escaped from an accident?* though £ndia has attained inep£nd- Therefore, 1 feel that all these small ence more than ten yean back, it is wck>den culverts should be replaced a pity that places like Tnpura, Mani ^ reinforced concrete pucca culvert* pur and Ladakh have not been con at an early date nected by an all-weather road with the rest of the country I think %ir, the closing of the tourist office some efforts should be made, some at Bhubaneswar has been most dia- effective measures should he taken to tossing It is a pity that even though have those tracts connected by suitable Orusa provides a variety of attne» all weather roads tatas to the tourists the tourist office w*iich was opened by the Central I now come to the National High Government at Bhubaneswar has way No. 6. That connects Calcutta befen closed Orissa provides a variety with Bombay It passes through my of attraction and entertainment Foi State. Somehow or other, I find that instance, the beautiful sea-beach with there is no co-ordination between thfc modern hotels provides an ideal this Ministry and the other Ministries, bouday resort Large lakes like th» because only two years back at a C^ilka Lake, fhe Hirakud Dam, witb- co^t of Rs 9 lakhs a bridge was thfc innumerable variety of the migra constructed over the Baitaram on the tory birds and the forests having aB National Highway No. 6 A project *°Hs of small an# big game, varying: report has now been presented to us frc>m the tigers to bisons and wild by the Ministry of Irrigation ana buffaloes and elephants make Oriasat Power where they say that by dam- an ideal place for shikar and the 9773 Demand* APRIL 4, 1959 for Grant> [Shri P K Deo] sportsman's paradise The beautiful amount of foreign exchange is being temples with their artistic spleuOooi earned by Indian shipping I submit are a least to the eye to a keen stu that a substantial portion of this dent of history and archaeology aad amount should be specially preserved art, especially the large number at for buying new ships or for develop varieties of handicraft like the hand ing our building or various ships loom textiles o f Satmbalpur and the With these words, I move my cut filigree silver work of Cuttack motions and the small images and the Patta chitras from Pun which are Mr "Deputy-Speaker: Shn Raj the household decorations have been Bahadur •decorating various homes in distant Shri Rajendra Singh: I wanftd to lands, They have been preserved as speak on shipping And unless those most valuable souvenirs It is a pity who want to speak on shipping apeak that in spite of these various attrac first, how can he reply 9 He is the tions which Orissa provides I do not Minister in charge of shipping know why the Government have clos ed the tourist office these at Bhubanes Mr Dejmty-Sjnsaker: But there is war Again, especially in my State, the Minister to reply to the debate Be there is the Odissi dance, we have the would speak at the end tradition to have changed an emperor like Asoka from a conqueror to a Shri HarUh Chandra Mathnr: The saint It is where Panchsheel origi Minister Shn Raj Bahadur, might nated It must be included in the speak at 1 o'clock and the Minister of itinerary of all visitors who come to Transport and Communications may this country so that they could visit speak at about 2 30 There would be my State then an interval of one and a half hours 1* hrs Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is a not my choice Mr. Deputy-Speaker: If that fear— the conqueror turning saint—persists, Shri Raj Bahadur I am in the hands nobody would like to go there' of the House Shri P K. Deo: But there is no Shri Harisfa Chandra Mathnr: Three conqueror when we propagate Panch or four speeches may be made before sheel So, a visit to Onssa must be he replies included in the itinerary of all the visitors who come to this country Shri Sa| Bahadur: After the speech Various restrictions like thofe on of the next Member to be called, I drinking and at custom check-posts can speak should be relaxed m the case of visi Mr. Depaty-Speaker "Next Mem tors if we want to have a very good ber"—I am not going to call any of tourist traffic m this country which those who have just now objected has been providing so much of foreign Shri Manabendra Shah exchange to us Shri Manabendra Shah (Tehn I would now* like to say a few words Garhwal) Yesterady, Shri Subram- regarding Chindabli which was a anyam mentioned something about flourishing port m the Onssa coast in the achievements in the first and se the last centrury It is a pity it 14 cond 5 Tear Plans Therefore, I have silting up now Just for name sake no intention of going into the details. {n am ke vcute) there is a port officer 1 may concede that If we take the there It is high*time that some overall picture of India as a whole, in money was* spent on dredging the the first Vive Year Plan and the se Chindabli port We find that a large cond Five Year Plan the achievementa 9775 D m a n d t CH^JTRA 14, 1881 (SAKA) for Grants 97/6 and the targets may be soauid and of population, as compared to the they may have been achieved Yet, I former Part A' States of the Indian may even g o to the extent of saying Union, is perhaps the lowest The ithat In spite of always theafTransport figures are these The figures of metal and Communications Miipitry whe road mileage per 100 sq miles of area ther it be in the Centre or in the up to the 31st March, 1956 for some States, being the target of economy, of the States that I am now going to whenever a wave of economy takes put forward will perhaps bear out my place, they are the greatest sufferers, point The House will probably be still, I hope that the target and aim of surprised to note that in Madras, the Nagpur Plan—that lgr 1963 no which has only an area of 60,362 sq village in a well-developed agricul miles there are 19,092 miles of tural area should remain more than metal roads Metal roads for -five miles away from the mam road 100 sq miles m Madras comes to 29 9 may be achieved In Andhra it is 20 7, in West Bengal the ratio comes to 15 3 and m Bombay Today What I would really like to it comes to 13 I But in Uttar Pradesh point out n that the distribution be it comes only to 10 2 Therefore, ac tween the States and 4 he distribution cording to this formula, if we refer even within the States between dis also to the formula evolved by the trict and district, is not all that is Council of Chief Engineers who have required Before I go on to that, I given a certain cntenons for road de would again like to refer to what velopment, what is the difference we Shri Subramanyam yesterday said note9 The Council have said that 52 about the 'classifications of various miles per hundred square miles of roads I am sorry he did not point road should be the target If we com out all the classifications He only pare this with the present position in pointed out five classifications which Uttar Pradesh we w ill find that we were National Highways, State high require about 40 000 miles of roads ways major district roads, minor dis At the same time, when we compare trict roads and village roads But he the position with Madras, w » will find forgot to mention two more classifica that the existing position of Madras tions, which are the roads of Inter- is that it has 30 miles per 100 square State and economic importance and miles Therefore, even to achieve roads required for opening up new this target we would have to have areas to which railway facilities can another 20,000 miles o f roads The not be provided in the near future purpose of my pointing out this was, These are the two most important as I said before, the distribution be classifications of the roads, and it is tween the various States is not all these that will really help the country that should be Now if we Sir, see what even the Finance Commissibn Coming back to the distribution have said about it, we find the within States, I find that neither the Finance Commission have accepted the density point of view nor the area principle of progressively matching point of view has been kept in mind grants »e the States which are I come from the State of Uttar Pra poorer m revenue should get more aid desh, and 1 would like to present from the Centre than others Even Uttar Pradesh a« an example of what this principle has not been accepted I am saying In Uttar Pradesh, which or really followed by Government has an area o f 1,18,039 sq miles and , People may say that there are cer which is the fourth largest State in tain roads which really do not form tiw Indian Union with a population part of the Centre and therefore it is of 88*2 million which it not only the the responsibly of the State But largest of all the Statesbut even the as we all know, the State has not got densest, the road mileage here is poora flexible source of revenue as in the The coad mlloage in Uttar Pradesh, case ef the fentre This has been ■per 100sq. mites of areaand one lakh conceded even *by the Deshmokh 2S L A D —1 9777 Demand* APRIL 4. l» 8t for Grant* 977* (Shri Manabendra Shah] award of 1848 and the two subse accepted this recommendation and quent Finance Commissions, and they have since amalgamated the Min have admitted that the revenues ol istries of Transport and Communi the State are not flexible. Therefore cations and placed them uftder one if the Centre is not going to give more Cabinet Minister.” aid for communication, which is in I, therefore, hope that the Member* a way the wheel of all development, of the Estimates Committee w ill also whether it is agricultural or indus lo£k tin to this aspect trial, than the real road development cannot take place. Shri Harish Chandra Mathnr: It has been done under the recommenda '1 have, therefore, to make certain tion of the Estimates Committee. suggestions, also in view of what the Shri Manabendra Shah: I hope the Railway Minister said, about the roads Estimates Committee w ill again re encroaching on the railways. My first consider the matter. suggestion is that it is not understood as to why, when the railways can go I shall now briefly refer to the con- into the. interior o f the States and ditLoos. in. Tehri GaxhwaJL which. my still be a Central subject, the roads constituency, by which I would also also cannot be entirely the responsi be trying to prove that even the*dis- bility of the Centre. If railways can tribution district-wise is not as it be, I am sure the roads also can be. should be. At present, the Centre is If you can have under the Centre responsible for construction of national airways, navigation, Roads, posts and highways, construction and develop telegraphs, telephones, etc., I cannot ment tof roads other than national high understand as to why the Railways ways. in the Union Territories and should not be under them also. certain special roads in Jammu and Kashmir State and Assam, and thirdly Shri Harfoh Chandra Mathnr: They of State roads of economic or inter were all trader'the railways at on state importance. It mearp that leaving time and they got out o f it. Delhi, Andamans and Nicobars, the V wftole of the Himalayan region ex Shri Manabendra Shah: The pur cept a few districts, in which Tehri pose -of my pointing this out is that Gsrhwal falls, becomes the responsi road development is haphazard just bility of the Centn*. So, it is not because there is no proper co-ordina understood as to why ■ my district tion between the States and the along with such otter districts is not Centre and between the various Minis the responsibility of the Centre, tries in the Centre' and the States. So, though they may, for administrative unless we can evolve a scheme by reasons fall under various States. which proper co-ordination can take place between the various depart There are three reasons for my ments tof our activities, I think we sa/ing this. Firstly, the whole of the cannot really achieve as much as we Himalayan region is border area. would like to. Secondly, if one of the conditions given for road construction Is opening a t Why I am encouraged to make this such roads where the railways can statement is, if we refer to page I of not come for sometime, again our the 34th Repbrt of the Estimates Com area comes under this classification. mittee, they have suggested the amal- * Thirdly, it was also envisaged (hat gamation of certain communication with tile political integration of the type of departments and they have country after partition, a more com remarked: prehensive development of road de velopment in princely States wiil be "The Committee are glad to assured. Diii has been assured in know that the Goveitbnent have page 238 of the revieir of the First 9779 Demands Five Year Plan. If this has been as Math for Gupta Kashi. It seems that sured, again Tehri Garhwal has a the people sitting in the Centre do claim over the Centre, which is not not even know what are the tourist being recognised 1 wtould, therefore, centres in the hilly, areas. request the Central Government kindly to look into the conditions Shri Raj Bahadur rose— prevailing in Tehri Garhwal^ Mr. Depaty-Speaker:Would he not Before I conclude, I want to say like to hear Shri Rajendra Singh? I something about transport. Since I do find he is not here. But Shri Harish not have enough time, I will briefly Chandra Mathur is here. Probably, touch that subject. I think the trans the Minister would like to hear him port problem is not so much as to before he speaks. whether we have enough roads or Shri Braj Raj Singh: I also want not. It may be that we may not have to say something before the hon. enough roads. It may be due to some Minister speaks. other reasons. According to me, the main reason is, what we have inheri Mr. Depaty-Speaker:I have taken ted from the past. In the past, the note of only two names. roads were constructed for strategic Shri Harish Chandra Mathor: I do purposes and therefore they were not know whether it is a compliment known as the marching roads, and the or • complaint. present roads are more or less paral lel to the railways and therefore There is very justified dissatisfac though we may have a big amount tion, and even irritation, against the of mileage of roads, metalled and un working of the posts and telegraphs metalled, the real opening up of the and telephone services and very country has not yet taken place, and strong criticism has been offered by that is what has to be looked into. the various members on the floor of this House. I might add that what has Therefore, what I have to suggest is been stated here is just a faint echo change in the priorities. We should of what is complained all over the not give priorities so much to the social circles. I do rtot think I have highways as we are doing now, to quote many facts and figures to because highways in a way directly indicate that the working of the Dir being fed by the Railways, I would ectorate of Posts and Telegraphs is like priority to be given to those at its lowest ebb. roads which can be of economic value or of inter-State importance or those When we write certain letters to roads which would open up those the Minister they are immediately ac areas where the railways cannot open knowledged. There is not the least them up. If we change the priorities doubt about it. But then one never "from this to the other, then I think hears what happens to the points that the problem will be solved to some we have raised. As soon as the Min extent ister receives the complaint he im mediately acknowledges. But what Lastly, I would like to touch on happens subsequently nobody knows. tourism from the hill point of view. In this connection, I think I will be I find that publicity given is not good well-advised to quote* only figures •t all, because I find nobody knows fitom the Annual Report of the Orga anything about the tourist centres in nisation and Methods Division. If our hilly places. I*>r example, nobody you look at the last Report of the seems to know or appreciate the Organisation and Methods Division, value o t Ukhi-Msrth which is on the you will find that this department Kedamath Road. People from all and this Directorate have been put [Shri Harish Chandra Mathurl emment You will find that their justified and it is not at all dignified. percentage of arrears runs to 50 per I hope the hon. Minister will par a cent, whereas the percentage of little attention to it arrears m the various other Ministries ranges from 6 to 8 per cent; nowhere VW WT • STS* 3 f t s f t is it above 30-35 per cent. But this department is listed at the bottom, so w r j'TPT w r fW T | *n- ’ far as efficiency is concerned. But this is the department with which the Shri HatJsh Chandra Matter: I members of the public come m con think it is no use going into what tact every day, with which they are a person does or what a person does concerned every day and so it not do. But it is not' a very good requires still more attention from the thing; that I would certainly like to hon Minister than other departments say There was a slight improvement Then I will say just a word about about more than a year back when another Inspectorate which nobodv this department was at the lowest has touched upon, and it is the Ins bottom and it rose from 69 per cent pectorate of the Railways which has , to somewhere about 58 or some such been placed under the Ministry of per cent Prom the last year the Transport and Communications so progress has been 09 per cent where that there is an independent and as other departments have shown far detached inspection of the railways. better performance I hope the hon It is with very great regret that I Minister will give proper attention to have to submit that this Inspectorate this matter He must have the right of the railways has become absolute men m charge of places, and if he ly ineffective It has become melTec- has right men m charge o f those tive for various reasons, and one of departments then he must give them the reasons, 1 think, is the unhealthy full powers and the fullest support attitude of the Railway Board in this He should not listen to any sort of matter It is absolutely against the explanations when a particular thing recommendations and wishes of the has got to be done, and the perform Railway Board that this Inspectorate ance of the department will be judged has been permitted to functi'on under not by anv statistics and figures but a separate Ministrj. the Ministry of by ’he opinion of the people which it Transport and Communications The should reflect Railway Board was strongly of the view t^at this Inspectorate, which, for But while I pass on from this very good reasons, has been put department I should like to add under an independent Ministry, something which though it is a very should be brought under the adminis small matter is very undignified We trative control of the Railway Board. find that Class IV servants o f the Posts We raised this question. They and Telegraphs Department go from manipulated it. In the various house to house on the occasion of reports of the Estimate Enquiry com Holi and Diwali to collect Baksheesh mittees certain recommendations were It is a most undignified thing from made, but the Minister for Railways the viewpoint of the department. I rose to the high position which he do not know whether it has any gov held and, in spite of the Railway ernmental sanction behind it or not? Board's recommendations, he agreed "We pay them well and if you think with the Minister of Communications, that they are not properly paid, *hu and this Inspectorate was permitted House would not giMdge an increase tb stay with the Communications in their emoluments. But for liveried Ministry. But because of this back government servants to go »«Unn f » ground and because j t t this attitude •mall Baksheeh does not look at all front the Railway Administration, this 9783 Demand! CHAITHA 14, 1881 ( SAKA) fo r G rants 9784 Inspectorate is not being given that ter for road transport to tell us what importance which should necessarily sort of development he visualises for be given to it, and it has very seri this industry and for the means o f ously affected it This is one of the communication in this country. I may very strong re&Ans, one o f the causes, say that it is one of the most neglect which is responsible for deterioration ed, most shabbily treated and most in the efficiency of the railways. I exploited Ministry. I do not knbw hope the hon. Minister for Commu why \t is not possible even for the nications will "be able to give a new Planning Commission to understand prestige and new status to the Ins the implications of it. They provided pectorate and see that its voice is about Rs. 98 crores to be spent by listened to with great respect by the the Centre during the Second Five Railway Board. Year Plan. Now from Rs. 98 crores it has been cut down to Rs. 88 crores in Here I jvould like to point out that such a vital field. the periodical inspections, which are almost statutory, are not being car ried out. This Inspectorate should ins I will just point out to you from pect, rather it is statutory for them facts and figures that our road mile to inspect, every inch of the railway age is extremely poor in this country line at least once a year. Now that as compared to not bnly certain other has been given up and it is only on progressive countries but as compar the convenience of the General Mana ed to countries which, so far as deve ger or somebody that some sort of lopment is concerned, do not stand inspections are arranged through anywhere near us. Even when com mutual agreement. This is a very pared to those countries, our road unhealthy thing and the Inspectorate, transport development and number which used to command great pres of cars and vehicles are extremely tige at some time, today is absolutely low. Now what happens is that in doing nothing. Almost everybody has stead of catching up with those ad forgotten whether such cm Inspecto vanced countries by stepping up our rate exists or not, and the Chief Ins development, grants and provisions pector of Railways is hardly of the for road transport are cut down from status of the Chief Engineer of the Rs. 98 crores to Rs. 88 crores. Yet we Railways, who is subordinate to the find that now after these three years General Manager, who is subordinate there are still Rs. 40 crores which to the members of the Railway Board, remain unutilised and for this year, and possibly very little power is that is, 1959-60, I understand, that given to him. This Inspectorate is out of Rs. 40 crores only Rs. 16£ located in Simla. I hope the hon. Min crores have been permitted to be ister will be able to take it but of the utilised. It is absolutely indefensible. cold storage and restore it to good I think the feeling of this House has health. been expressed nbt only during the debate on the Transport Ministry’s Then I will pass on to the main sub Demands but even when the Rail ject, and that is roads. This is the way Ministry’s Demands were dis most important industry, the signi cussed. Hon. Member after hon. Mem ficance of which is hardly realised. ber spoke in favour of road transport The road transport industry, not only and gave very cogent* and strong as such but also its other importance, reasons. There were certain has hardly been realised even by the Members—at least I was one of them Ministry which controls it There is •—who said, and I wish to repeat i^ hardly a realisation of what is expect that it wtould be advisable even if you ed of this industry and what is the rut out a provision of Rs. 100 crores future vision of road development. from the Railways and make it avail We do not know even the picture able for the roads, because it is the today. We would like the hon. Minis roads only which will be a ble to open 9*7*5 Demands APRIL 1959 fo r Grant* 9786 IShri Hansh Chandra Mathurl up the country, the rural areas in population is concerned and how poor particular. Let us not forget that we are in vehicles. It is not when we are laying down a railway only that we are extremely poor line, it is used only by the railway in the mileage t>f roads but you will trains—goods trains and passenger find, if-you go into the statistics, that' trains—but when w« are constructing the utilisation of vehicles is also ex a road it is not only the motor Vehicle tremely poor. We have got certain which is using it but it is the bullock- areas where the vehicle is not utilised cart which is also using the road and even for a week in a month. I am it is the pedestrian who is also using not going into the various recom the road. So, Hoads’ importance is mendations. I am ntot even touching greater as compared to railways’ im any of the recommendations which portance. There is no comparison. I have been made'by the Road Trans hope that there is a better utilisation port Re-organisation Committee that of roads and that there is a better is in the hands of the Railway Minis understanding of the importance of try. I have purposely avoided telling roads. If the entire country has to be anything about that Committee. T topened up, if our rural areas are not hope that that Committee’s recom- -jpaiwad jaw? j f s e ir -ars'- meadatians wiii receive the hon. 2Uo- nomy nas got to set any stimulus, ister’s due consideration and before greater importance must be attached long it will be laid on the Table of to the development of roads and cer the House and that the hon. Minister tain extra funds must be made avail will be able to give us an indication. able. While talking about roads I defi It is not realised that roads are nitely wish to touch upon the subject contributing far greater to the reve of dieselisation. I was really pained nues of the Exchequer. If you just and surprised and ytou will remember took into the figures, you will find that I asked a question of the hon. that the Railways are contributing Railway Minister on the floor of the about Rs. 40 crores or so to the Cen House whether he had any hand in tral Exchequer. As against this, this. He immediately repudiated that roads are contributing about Rs. 98 he had anything to do with this. But crores to Exchequer of the Central the hon. Minister of Finance, who Government as well as of the State spoke on the subject, said it very Governments. It is really unfortu clearly on the floor t>f this House that nate that without having a really pro it was not only for the purpose of per plan and a prtoper understanding revenue that he had levied this tax for the industry, roads always come but also because he wanted that there in for handy taxation of all sorts. We should be a change-over from, diese do not mind the taxation, but the lisation to petrol in the light of the taxation should be in keeping with fact that diesel has got to be import the development of roads. I would ed from outside whereas our refineries suggest that now at least 75 per cent are so designed that we get a greater of what ytou realise from road taxa amount trf petrol. I venture to submit tion should definitely be earmarked that this theory is absolutely unten and should go* to a particular pool able and cannot stand scrutiny even which should be devoted exclusively for a minute. I do not know whether to the development of roads. it is possible ftor this Administration to bring dawn the price of petrol at I have not the time and I do not* three-fourth of diesel, whether it can think it is necessary, though I have be done and whether it has bean re got all the figures with me, tdl Toa alised that 75 per cent of our trans- as to how extremely poor we a are In port, which is already on the roads— our roads so far as a mile of the ter- about 45,000 bases and a lakh and • xttH ? I s concerned and so far as the quarter of trucks—4s already on die- £787 Demands CHAITRA 14, 1881 (&AJCA) fo r G rants 9788 m L If you look at the development that view point, that is, that he be which Is taking place all over the longs to a particular State but should world, in the Continent and every lotok to the developmental needs 01 where else, with the solitary excep the country as a whole and to tha tion of possibly the USA, where the needs of these three States in parti price of petrol is abnormally low—a cular. price to which we can never come—I think we are taking a very -retrograde Shri Baj Bahadur: Sir, I am grate and a very dangerous steps. We are ful to the House for the criticism that not realising what we are doing to the hon. Members have offered in re the future development of the road lation to the departments which fall transport of this country. within the Ministry of Transport I will confine my brief remarks to these Shri H&riah Chandra Mathur: I departments and to begin with I hope that proper attention will be would, of course, like to take up the paid to it and the hon. 'Minister will subject of roads and road transport rise equal to the occasion and will see because they have attracted so much that in the best interests of the coun notice from all comers of the House try . . . • during this debate and the earlier Shri Nath Pal (Rajapur): Stand debate on the Railway Budget. up to the hton. Railway Minister. We know that so far as roads ar» 8hrl h «h * Chandra Mathur: ...... concerned we have already fulfilled and in the best interests of the de certain targets—targets which were velopment of roads of this country laid before the country and its engin something is done. eers in 1943 under the well known Nagpur Plan. The House has already Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hen. been informed that another plan, the Member's time is up. Sectrnd Plan of the roads, has been formulated. It is receiving the atten Shri Harish Chandra Mathar: Just tion of the Government. The broad details of that were referred to by one minute if you will permit me. the hon. Member, Shri T. Subraman- ‘ yam. I would not like to tire the 1 will say that special attention is House by repeating those figures ex demanded particularly for three State cept pointing but that whereas in of India and I hope that a special the present Plan we had hardly amount will be allotted for the de about Rs. 250 crores for road deve velopment o f these three States. Of lopment the Second Twenty Year these three States, on the top is Raj Plan that has been drawn up would asthan, number two is Madhya Pra demand from the country a contribu desh and number three comes Orissa. tion of about Rs. 5,200 cztores if we We do not expect that these States want to increase the concentration of can have any benefit from the Rail roads or the mileage of roads from *3 ways. Roads must give special pre for every square mile to ■5 for every ference to these under-developed square mile. That is the dimension of States. We are having various pro the problem which confronts us. If jects and all these projects will be of I may point out so far we have been no use until and unless a proper as spending on capital igorks and main sessment is made for the development tenance about Rs. 77 crores, that is. o f roads in these particular States. I think, the last year’s expenditure, I am afraid, the hon. Minister who is and our engineers in the Plan that in charge of roads, though he belongs they have framed have asked - that to that State, has not been able to they would require about Rs. 110 play the came and has possibly been crores for capital works and mainte feeling very shy of helping his own nance from 1907-62 and that it should Slate. Be should not look at it from mcrefese by 1981-82 to Rs. S75 crores 9789 Demands APRIL 1 1950 /o r,Grants [Shri Raj Bahadur] par annum. This would indicate the R*. 60 lakhs tor three years for road* extentat the problem. built under co-operative schemes bjr, shramdan etc. That we have utilised* One wonders as to how Vould it be We have again allotted Rs. 60 lakh* possible for the country to mobilise for this purpose. So far, we were get resources for such a vast undertaking. ting proposals for this from the State Bat then the country has to do it Governments. But, the Member* because roads are essential for our were not usually consulted. We pro progress, for our economic deve pose that hereafter, for such allot lopment and for everything that ments, we shall also consult the we need m this country. More Members of the House in the particularly let us realise the Consultative Committee or otherwise. state of affairs so far as the But, for such schemes, we do require rural areas are concerned. We maps which could give a clear idea o f know that each and every village and the alignments of the national high hamlet in this country has got to be ways, the State highways, the district connected by road This is an age board roads and development block of autobahns and express highways roads For that purpose, a special we want express highways should allotment at Rs. 10 lakhs has been run north to south and east to west offered to the State Governments for and there should be a pattern before the preparation of such a map. us by which we can have a net work I would now refer briefly to certain of roads all over the country, criss allotments that have been made for crossing our countryside. By the Plan roads to be developed for the piomo- that has been formulated, it is esti tion of iron ore traffic In this con mated that we would require as much nection, I may say that the Central as 405,000 miles of roads for our rural Government has offered grants aggre areas That would just be sufficient gating to Rs 202 lakhs to the States to enable us to ensure certain faci of Mysore, Andhra Pradesh and lities to certain areas bn the basis Orissa I shall mention the names of that for the development of our agri the roads becausc they may be in cultural areas, every village would teresting to Members from the parti not be at a distance of more than 5 cular States miles from any pucca road and more than 2 miles from any kuccha road Talaguppa-Honavar Road This time, the Plan has also made Banasandra-Hassan Road another classification and that is, for Hassan-Mangalore Road semi-developed areas which were Hubli-Karwar Road not in the Nagpur Plan, a village Londa-Sadasivgarh Road m a semi-developed area would Andhra Pradesh-Mahboobabad— not be more than 8 miles from Yallandhu Road a metalled road and 3 miles from any Orissa—Tomaka-Kobatbundh Road. other road. In under-developed areas referred to by the last speaker, like Allotments for these roads have been those in Rajasthan and other States, sanctioned and I can say that we can the target fixed is 12 miles and 5 hope that before long, the work will miles respectively. These are the be undertaken on all these schemes. dimensions and $ie broad indications About the Jawahar tunnel, refer of the Plan and I can only assure the ence was made by Shri A.M. Tariq. House that we are giving it our best I may assure him that we have taken consideration. good steps to see that it is kept open 1 am very much concerned about throughout the year. When there is the expansion of the road system in extraordinarily heavy snowfall, it our ratal areas. The pouse is aware might happen that H is Mocked for i that we had » made provision for few days. On such occasions also, we Demand* CHAITRA 14, ,1881 {SAKA) for G rantt 9791 5792* would take step* to see that it is the Prune Minister on 8th Septem cleared as quickly as possible. One of ber, 1858 and to which a tribute was the tubes, the western one, was open paid in the President’s Address to ed in December, 1858. We think that Parliament. I would like to refer to .both Ox tubes will be completed by the North Sikkim Road because the 1960. responsibility for developing road has been undertaken by us. We have 1 would also like to inform the sanctioned estimates aggregating to House about certain important bridge Rs. 40 lakhs already. H ie work will works which have been taken up be completed during the Third Plan. during the current year. These are: I would now refer to the road which was referred to in his speech by Shn Mahananda bridge at Cuttack A M Tanq. He said that the Pathan- Birupa bridge near Cuttack kot-Jammu road could not be kept Open throughout the year Tq a cer Yamuna bridge at Delhi tain extent he was right I would only Vashista bridge in Godavari say that the steps that we have so far taken are sufficient to ensure that >t delta will be kept open for all the 365 Mahananda bridge at Malda days of the year except when there are very heavy rams He knows verv Roopnaram bndge well that the Pathankot—Jammu sec Rail-cum-road bndge over Brah tion by itself Had 70 causeways, some maputra m Assam of which used to have flow cSI water over them for long periods dunng Mahananda bndge At Dhingra- the rainy season The worst ones out ghat of these causeways have been taken care of I may tell him that the fol Mahananda bndge at Donepurhat lowing causeways have been con Netravati bridge on West Coast verted into bndges and the work ha-, Road. been completed Dewak causeway, Tama causeway, Landoi causeway A demand was made both by Sanction to tup conversion into brid the Andhra Government and certain ge's of the following causeways ha* ^Members of Parliament that the been issued- Khaderu Khud No 1. bndge over Godavan which is very Mager Khud and the Second Khaderu necessary, and which lies on a State Khud With these, it is hoped that highway, namely the Bhadrachalam the road will be kept open through Bndge should also be constructed out the year and we should contribute towards its I would now like to make a few construction cost I am glad to observations m regard to the vexed announce that the Central Govern subject bf railroad competition I ment have agreed to sanction a grant do not know whether I can improve of Rs. 20 lakhs for the bndge across upon the observations that have been the Godavari at Bhadrachalam. The made in this behalf by several Mem total cost is Rs 60 lakhs. The State bers. But, I think it will be clearly Government is expected to meet the unfortunate and positively detrimen balance of the cost for that purpose tal to the interests of the country if any controversy or any sftint of cam So far as the roads are concerned, paign is brought or imported into the I will only refer to one or two roads, consideration of this question. We more because they are important, and sh|ll have to take an objective view because we would like to pay bur and we shall have to keep before our tribute to the work that has been done mind the good of the country all the there. I refer to the Gang^pk-Nathula time and this will Ipve to be decided. road which has been completed in This qu^ption Is there. We cannot rlc®^ time, and was- opened by belittle U> importance. Nor can we •9793 JMHnand' APRIL ^ 1959 for Grants l«..iri Raj Bahadur] ■overlook it, because vital interests "If the national industry can both of tye Railways and the develop-v benefit more by road transport, I* jnent of road transport industry are will have absolutely no objection. involved. At the same time, however, But in that case I will have also to i t requires a dispassionate and fair consider whether in respect of the treatment, free from all traces of con industrial raw materials and troversy or conflict. In this connection. materials necessary tor the deve I would like to pay my humble tri lopment of our industries, which bute to my senior colleague the are carried to distant places by Railway Minister for the speech that the Railways, not at economic he has delivered in the Rajya Sabha rates but at subsidised rates, those on the debate on Railways. We have rates will continue or not ___" got to read that with objectivity and we will recognise that in whatever he Finally he says, Sir: has said, he has given full expression in his statements to the development "I, as a Railway Minister, do of road transport. Of course, he has not see any ground for putting any •vjuttUfex' Aar ififefta'vtn&ifl&r mitt 1 .nattnir restrictions on the development of conditions. But he was perfectly en the motor transport in this coun titled to do it because he has to look try, so long as the capacity avail after the good of the Railways too. I able in the country is properly think I will do well if I just quote utilised before new capacities are a few sentences from the observations created." that he has made in this behalf. This Shrt Nath Fal: The lady protests is .what he says, on page 250 of the too much! Report of the Rajya Sabha on 25th February, 1959: These are crocodile tears. What about diesel trucks? In one breath “I may assure her (he was re .he says'that he does not want to ferring to the President of the All Tiarm it. But actually the steps are India Motor Union Congress, likely to strangle it. Rajkumari Amnt Kaur) that the Shr) Raj Bahadur: I hope the bon. road transport operators have Member will listen to me before he> got all sympathy from me, be comes to any conclusion. I would cause I feel that in our country like to say that he has tried to deal there is ample scope for the With the subject fairly and objectively. development of all types of trans He has stated the case fairly and port. Whether it is rail or it is frankly and we must be thankful to road, whether it is inland river Kim for that. transport or whether it is coastal transport, there is ample scope for Shri HarMt Chandra Mathnr: I all these four types of transport asked the hon. Minister for Railways in this country. But, what I want to tell us what he means by duplica to avoid is that with the limited tion. He himself had no answer to resources at our disposal, there jgive. He says that the whole matter should not be any duplication of Is under the consideration of the the facility ^ in any area. Our re Planning Commission. He will not sources should be utilised to the be able to give any view. .That fullest possible extent,---- ” Was what he said. Duplication is one word. Co-ordination is fie has suggested, why not the ratf- ‘mother word. All these words -ways and the road transport function ‘neen nothing, but simply domination in • complementary way? He has V railways on the road. And, now, aaid: Let there ba some pioneering ^he word ‘complementary' meant noth effort on the part of the road trans ing but that they should get away port. Further, he has stated: Vherethe Railways are operating. Let <9795 Demands CHAITRA 14, 1881 ( SAKA) for G rants 97 9& us have a clear understanding of the country The social and economic whole situation. needs of the community have to be satisfied Let us therefore be aware Shri Baj Bahadur: I, think Sir, that of the fact that, after all, it is the .lor a clearer uniWrstan ding o f the whole trade, it u the industry, it is the agri situation, we should not doubt each culture that is going to dictate the others’ motives. (An hon. Mepiber. pattern and the form of transport We do not doubt it). So far a^ we are concerned, either in the Ministry It cannot be disputed that trade an& a t Railways, or in the Ministry of industry cannot be made subservient Transport, we are bound to observe to the exigencies of the requirements certain rules of joint and collective and the limitations of a particular responsibility mode of transport We have also to Shri Bra| Baj Singh: Are there two take note of the fact that he has said Governments? There is only^ one exactly what Shri Mas am said yester Csfrihet They have got joint res day He said there is ample scope for ponsibility. Why do they go on pay expansion of all modes of transport. ing complement to each other? I agree with Shn Masam, as the Rail way Minister does The question is: Shri Nath Pal: They can do it. Why should we be scared of this kind Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order of co-ordination"* Let us see how it There ought to be no domination here operates What is the story of this Here coordination should be observed co-ordination 9 I find that that is not forthcoming Sardar A. 8. Saiga!: It may not be Shri Raj Bahadar: I am coming to subordination there. that. Of course, the Railway Minister Shri Raj Bahadur: I hope this parti has qualified his observations He cular controversy will not make our does not want that there should be judgments blurred Why should we "‘duplication of capacity”. He does not not take note of the fact that the want that where capacity is offered by Railways are our biggest national the Railways there should be new undertaking 7 They have served the capacity created He says he has no country and served it well They are objection if the industry takes full employing as many as 1*2 millions advantage of the road transport but •If any unfair competition comes then he will have to revise the rates. which may adversely affect the Rail He also says that there should be ways. the loss that is suffered thereby pioneering efforts by road-transport will be a loss suffered by the nation Sir, Road Transport has done and is m the ultimate analysis of things. I, doing «ome pioneering. In fact roads as a Minister m charge, will not be came into existence much before the oblivious of that Railways It is undisputable. If the needs of economy, if the demands of Road transport must be given full traffic, and if the oircumstanees so scope for its expansion and must be require, and industry is free to revise relieved and must be rescued from its rates. There a no doubt about the various restrictions that are there, that. So, the question comes, why is but, at the same time, the Railways, the duplication? What is the objec which are one of our most important tion to the creation of some sort of national undertakings, ’should also be capacity* We recognise very well. taken care of by this House That is Sir, tyiat whatever mode of trans the way in which we can approach port we may take into account— jthe whole question Any type of co Jet it be roadways, railways, inland ordination to be successful, has to waterways, airways, shipping or be realistic; it has to be reasonable; anything,—they are after all, not and it has to be,practical. Until end an end in themselves. They are unless these three conditions are a means to an end. And the satisfied, now coordination has woriead end is the ooenynto prosperity of the erwill work. Since UN for the first 9797 Demand* APRIL 4, 1988 fo r G ra n tt 9 7 9 g [SMi Raj Bahadur] lating to Railway plant and rolling tune, we know the story of this co stock. The figure in 1987*88 was 2* (tit ordination. In 1939, statutory recog crores, and in 1958-89, Rs. 2*80 crores. nition was given to the restrictions Revised estimates for 1988-89 is 4 '0 0 that have been imposed on road trans crores. In 1959-80, the budget esti port We know very well that War mate is S'70 crores. Naturally, there intervened and those restrictions fore, /the House and the Members are could not be fully implemented. Soon quite entitled to ask what the limits after the War, came the .Code of prin or the dimensions of that co-ordina ciples and practices. But that has tion are going to be. That‘is a ques also not been accepted by many of tion which cannot be answered by the States. Certain amendments me That is a question which cannot brought forward to the 1956 Act were be answered by the Railway Ministry not acceptable to this House. At the or the Civil Aviation Department or same time, we also know that road the Stopping Directorate or any of transport, despite all these restrictions, them ? So far as this question is con has been gathering strength. Why? cerned, it depends upon the evolution Because, it is the symbol of the modern of a national transport policy. age We should not have any doubt or any misgivings about the future of 13 h n . road transport Let it, however, be In this connection, I may inform the realised that it has all along worked House that this question has been under severe curbs and controls. It engaging our serious attention, and we has suffered from one of the have finalised the details, and I hope heaviest taxations in the country that a high level body will be set up It has also, as the House is in this month or m a few weeks, aware, suffered from certain Tules and which will go into this question, study regulations which have been enforced it m all its intricate details, and then by the police or other people and we advise Government in regard to the know the vagaries and excesses of principles on which such a national that enforcement We also know how transport policy may be formulated credit has been very difficult to get so It is a very onerous and very difficult far as Road Transport is concerned task, and I think we have got to give In the matter of production of motor this particular job or task to such a vehicles, we have not been able to body, and I hope hon Members can keep up to the schedule I think I wait patiently for this may point out in this connection a few figures But, I would repeat that this ques tion has got to be considered 'free I would like to refer to page 6 of from all traces of controversy. the Explanatory Memorandum on the budget of the Central Government May I now take up another subject? There are various items like Motor I would now like to come to ports cars, cycles, scooters, omnibuses, chas and shipping, because about ports also, sis, vans, lorries, etc. How the res sufficient interest was evinced. I may triction on imports of necessary parts say that the traffic handled hy the and components has operated is ob major ports and minor ports put to vious from these figures. In 1957-58, gether in 1955-56 was of the order the revenue ito m this was Rs. 12*92 of 28 million tons. The traffic handled crores. The Budget Estimate for during 1957-58 in major ports was o f 1958*59 was 13-50 crores. The revised the order of 31 million tons. Our pre estimate shows only Rs. 70 lakhs. It» sent capacity is 32*6 million tons, «n4 1959-80 the budget is only Rs. 70 lakhs. when all the works included in the So, the revenue on this particular item Second Plan are completed, our capa 6y way of customs duty has fallen city.will go up for major porta to 41 from Rs. 19*80 crores to Rs. 70i lakhs. million tons, and for minor ports it On tiw other hand, take the figure re will go up to 8 million tons, thus mak •9799 D tm andt CHAXTRA 14, 1881 (SAKA) fo r G rant* 9 80a ing * total of 46 million tons. I think them is the Balari bar, which is show that with this capacity, we ahall be ing some signs of deterioration, for in able to meet the requirements of our December, 1958, it came down to 7:1 trade and industry, and our ports feet, immediate measures were taken. would be able to stand up and come A dredger was commissioned and it up to the expectations of the trade was sent to the site, and I am glad to and industries in this country. say that results have been achieved, but I would not say they are of a But so far as the present trends are permanent character The present concerned, they show some decline depths have now come up to 9 feet. arising out of, perhaps, some reces The depths have varied between 8 sion in the trade; and the traffic hand feet and 9 feet 3 inches for the penod led in 1958-59 is expected to be con 1st to 4th and 6th to 15th March The siderably less than the traffic handled total spoils lifted from October to in 1957-58. February is of the order of 6,48,000 So far as our achievements are con tons cerned, from the point of view of con struction of the various items of work The problem, as the hon Members included m the Second Plan, I may are aware, > has been investigated by inform the House that for 1958-59 the quite a number of experts including works totalling or costing up to Mr Ir F Posthuma, Deputy Director Rs 15:23 crores have been earned out of the Port of Rotterdam, Holland, We have a programme for the next Messrs Rendel, Palmer & Tritton, year for works costing up to a total London Dr Pierre Danel, Director- of Rs 33‘31 crores General, and Mr Wallet, Chief Engi neer, Hydraulic Research Laboratory, Hon. Members very well know that Grenoble, France, and Mr Wichers this year we got the loans from the Hoeth, Chief Engineer, Hollandsohe World Bank for the Madras port to Aannommg Mantschappij, Holland the tune of Rs 66 million, and for the Commicsionprs o f the Port o f Calcutta, The general conclusions arrived at Rs 137 million, which have solved to by them for achieving or ensuring a la-ge extent the problem of foreign stable depths in the BalaVi region are exchange that this can be done only by conti^ nuous dredging and proper training 1 shall now com' to the point which works So far as the experiments are ■was raised by my hon friend Shri concerned, for river trammg works, S C. Samanta yesterday, and by some they are being earned on by the Re other hon Members also, about the search Institute at Poona, and we difficult conditions m the port of Cal hope that soon they will b ' finalised, cutta. and about the just aiyd right and we shall be able to art upon anxiety with Tegard to its future be them Meanwhile, we have already cause of the deterioration m the navi taken a decision to acquire two large gable depths of the river Hooghly sized suction dredgers and to start re Shrt Harish Chandra Mathur: It was pair and reconditioning of the old raised by Shri Raghunath Singh. dredger Ganga The port of Calcutta has got at present 4 section dredgers, Shri Raj Bahadar: It was raised by 3 bucket dredgers, and 6 gr&b dredgers, Shri Raghunath Singh and Shri S C but they are in an old condition Samanta too. There were other Mem- T»ers also who raised it, but hon. Mem- •> 1>ers would forgive me if I am not men So far as nver training works are tioning all the names. concerned, the House is aware that wa have started the,Fulta point training We know that the problem of Cal- works 'W hich cost as much as Rs. 5*5 ■cutta is the problem of bars, the 14 crons, and I can say that with this "bar* that arc tfm t in the river particular work, we shall be able to Hooghly; and the most mischievous of control and improve the depths in four 9801 Demands APRIL 4, 1999. - /or Grants 9802. [Shri Raj Bahadur] bars which are on the north of this currency, to be met out of the U.S. particular point. The lasting solution, Presidents Asian Economic Develop however, as the House is aware, only ment Fund. With this, the capacity consists in ensuring supplies oi fresh of the port would be increased to upland water down the river Hooghly. about 5 million tons which will faci litate the export of two million tons In regard to the deep sea port, of iron ore per annum to Japan, from; about which Mr. Posthuma and'Messrs 1964. Rendel, Palmer k Tritton ha\e recom mended a site on the Haldiu Channel Reference was also made to the northward from the outfall of the Kandla port. Four cargo berths with HaMia river, I am glad to say that a total wharf length of 2700 feet were- we have proposed that we should opened in July, 1957. Two addi establish a deep water port, as a sub tional berths are under construction. sidiary port to the port of Calcutta, I would like to point out that the port to be used as anchorage in the first and its traffic have come up to ex instance, and the necessary notifica pectations. In fact, when the pro tion is going to be issued shortly in ject was being drawn up, it was esti this behalf. The anchorage will be mated that in five years* time it brought into use during the next fair would have a traffic 6f as much as 8 season, from October to February. lakhs of tons. But we find that it This will be the first step towards the handled within two years of its fulfilment of a need which has been coming into commission a traffic of long felt. 8*44 lakhs tons since 1957-58. In 1958-59, it is expected to reach one About the Bombay Harbour Chan million tons. So far as the revenues nel, I may say that we prop»#se to take are concerned, I may say that accor up the work during 1959-bu, that is ding to the original programme or the dredging work, which may cost project, it was estimated that in the as much as Rs. 8 crores, a.*d we shall first five years, the revenues would have to dispose of as much as 30 be of the order of Rs. 12 lakhs, in the million tons of dredged material. next five years, it would be I now come to the Visakhapatnam Rs. 18 lakhs, and in the next ten. port, because reference was made to years, it would be Rs. 28 lakhs. But it also. The existing breakwater has the net income during 1957-58 has been deteriorated consideraoly, and we of the order of Rs. 11*32 lakhs and in have proposed longterm repairs cos 1958-59 it has been Rs. 24‘ 52 lakhs. ting Rs. 27 lakhs; and short-term re pairs are being undertaken at a cost I have given these figures in order of Rs. 2 lakhs. The harbour has got to try to remove the impression which four quay berths, three jetty berths, is often expressed that the port of two oil berths ano four mooring berths Kandla has not done well, or that it with a capacity o f 2 3 million tons. In has not come up to expectations. I 1957-58, the total traffic it handled think it has come up to expectations, was more than its capacity, and it was hut it has got its own teething troubles 2*49 million tons. We think that in and problems. 1958-59 it will handle traffic of an equal voluffte. Another problem that has sprung up and which has also been responsi The construction of four berths, two ble for causing anxiety has bean for general cargo, and two for ores an£ about the shoal there, namely the provision of belt-conveyor system and Kalandhara shoal which is disintegra auxiliary facilities at Visakhapatnam ting and which has also reduced the are already being yndertaken. The depth of the channel to 8 feet. A dred tptal estimated cost of this construc ger will be permanently taken for this tion w ill be Rs. 4‘ 78 crores, o f which port Meanwhile, the dredger of Hi* Rs. 2*10 crores will be in foreign Visakhapatnam port has been brought 9803 Demands CHAITRA 14, 1B81 ( SAKA) for G rant* 9804: to the channel, and the channel has Mangalore will be referred to by my been Again dug to a depth of ten feet senior colleague. already, and by the end of April, we hope it will go* tip to twelve feet Shri S. C. Samanla: What about With this I think the problem of the Cochin? Will that also be touched by port of Kandla will be considera- v the hofl. Minister in his reply? bly eased. Shri Baj Bahadur: In case he wants information about the port of In regard to minor ports, I may say Cochin, I am prepared to give it, but that during the first three years we I think no reference was made to it. have spent Rs. 3 crores out of a total We are having four new berths under allotment of Rs. S crores, Of course, construction and they will be com Rs. 1 crore has been spent on works pleted by the end of 1960. They will not included in the plan; so Rs. 3 crores further augment the capacity of the have to be spent in the remaining two port. That is so far as the deve years. We have also got to acquire lopment of that port is concerned. certain dredgers and survey launches for the dredger and survey pool for minor ports; but so far we have not We do not claim to have made any spectacular achievements, but I think been able to get foreign exchange for that. But tosevsn exc&Kngfc ta Va* a steady progress has been made in regard to all these works, and we are., tune of Rs. 96 lakhs has now been going gteadily but surely, in regard to offered for this work from the Import- the development of the major ports. Export Bank o f the U.S.A.. and the With the provisions of loans, work has proposals are under the active con been accelerated and I think many sideration and scrutiny of the Ministry of Finance. schemes have been sanctioned recent ly which have already been taken up for execution or are soon going to be I think, so far as minor ports are taken up. concerned, I would make a brief refer ence to the port of Pondicherry. It Then, I will come to shipping which has not been mentioned, but I think is another subject which has been would like to inform the House that widely commented upon by the hon. ' provision exists for the construction of Members. So far as shipping is a pier and ancillary works costing Rs. concerned, the main problems are 36* 75 lakhs and an overall expenditure tonnage, personnel and cargo availa of Rs. 15'43 lakhs will also be incur bility. 1 would like to mention here red. Rs. 35 lakhs have been pro that so far as our achievements are vided in the Budget for 1959-60 for concerned, they may be summarised Visakhapatnam, and Rs. 5 lakhs for as follows: Andaman ahd Nicobar Islands. The Second Plan target for overseas Then I would refer to the port of shipping which was 4.88 lakhs GRT Paradip to which reference was made has been exceeded by 0.28 lakhs GRT by Shri P. K. Deo. I can only say that tnirinpr into account the orders already steps are being taken to examine placed on shipyards. These ordered whether this can be converted into a vessels to the tune of 1«2 Jgkhs GRT major port. As the hon. Member will be delivered before April, 1961. knows, the main bottleneck is that its hinterland is not well-developed. It We are certainly short of the coastal lacks in communications, and trans target by 1.62 lakhs GRT. This is port facilities, and unless and until inevitable because there is - shortage- they are developed, it will be difficult of cargo availability on the coast. for us to expedite or accelerate the The Rftil-Sea Co-oniination Committee pace at which this can be converted expected that # the cargo offerings so into a major pgrt I fhfck the far as coastal shipping is . concerned proposals in regard to Tuticoiin and would be of the order of 40 lakh ton* •98°5 Demand* APRIL 4, 1B59 fo r g M [Shri Raj Bahadur] •on the coast Including salt and coal, I would say that so far as the „ -and 10 lakh tons tor adjacent trade remaining two years are concerned, Unfortunately, however, these hopes to achieve the target, we have got at •or expectations have not been realised our disposal a credit of 2*6 billion Yen The fact of the matter is that the out of the allocation of 5 billion Yen •cargoes that are coming are showing for building ships m Japan. From a continuous decline from year to year this credit we hope we shall be able In 1955 it was 29 lakh tons, m 1956 to acquire either two large-sized it was 27 lakh tons, and in 1957-58 it tankers of 40,800 GRT each or three was 25 lakh tons Naturally, therefore cargo vessels of about 21,000 GRT because of this lack of availability of Rupees one crore of free foreign ex cargo, the impetus that could have change has also been made available been given to the expansion of coastal for purchase of new and secondhand shipping has not come, and that is ships 1 think with this as many as perhaps the main difficulty at the five vessels may be added which will moment increase the Indian shipping tonnage by another SO to 35 thousand GRT JCj{Ransuir jaasxta 1 ^hpping? dy Fhrtfter, ss* saan as' we *ev e&te to hon Members know, is linked utilise the sum of Rs 1 crore in intimately with ihe availability of foreign exchange, we shall, I think, cargo We have also consulted the be able to get more from the Minis Railway Board m this connection, since try of Finance This is our confident they are steadily increasing their hope traffic so far as lifting of coal and salt is concerned In 1954 the railways During tht year as you know, we earned less than 54,000 tons of salt have already set up according to the whereas in 1957 thev carried 1 42 term-* of the Merchant Shipping Act, lakh tons and during 9 months of a Merchant Shipping Board to advise 1958 they have already earned 1 10 Government on all policy matters A lakh tons Shipping Development Fund Com mittee has also been set up A sum Tht over-all shortage m tonnage of Rs 6 crores will be made available during the Second Plan penod is of dunng 1959-60 for advancing loans to the order of 1 7 lakh GRT The ques Indian shipping companies tion may be asked as to what are we So far as personnel is concerned, 1 doing to make it up, and in fact, it has may inform the House that we hav< been asked by hon Member Shn Pun- been making a steady increase in the noosc In fact, he has said that we number of trainebs to the Training shall not be able to fulfil it, but I can Ship Duflerin and other institutions assure him that the steps we have In 1958 the number of candidates was taken andv we will take in future will raised to 75 and m 1959 it w ill be enable us to fulfil this target That is raised to 80 On the engineering my hope, and confident hope side the intake in the Directorate of Marine Engmeenng Training has been In the remaining two years it is increased from 50 per annum earlier obvious we Should have as much as to 65 in 1958 We have a proposal to '85,000 tons accretion to our shipping increase the intake to 100 in 1959 tonnage in order to make up the target that we have before us Dunng For the ftrst tune, we are also mak the year 1968 we have already acquir ing arrangements for higher train ed tonnage to the extent of 86,416 ing in both these fields, and the Minis 'GRT, and although tour vessels were try o i. Finance hat given its concur scrapped,•the net addition amounted rence to the starting of training faci to 71,288 GRT This acquisition lities for Extra Hasten on the nauti •compares favourably against S lakhs cal side and Extra* first Class engi aide. 80 far, these qualifications our objective, namely, * at least 50 could be obtained only in Ungiand, per cent of foreign trade would be and our candidates and trainees bad carried in our own vessels. That is to be sent to that countrytqr this pur •all that we want to do. I am sure pose. This would be done in our own this House will agree with me that country under suitable arrangements. this objective does not imply any flag discrimination, to which certain re ferences were made by my hon. friend, So far as ratings are concerned, we Shri Raghunath Singh, yesterday. are able to fulfil the demands. We He referred to certain apprehensions have already trained more than10,000 and doubts expressed in this behalf boys. Our requirements, I think, are by certain foreign shipping interests adequately met. in England and elsewhere. I would like to assure everyone concerned that it is not our intention to indulge in Meanwhile, we have also taken a any type of flag discrimination^ but very important step in this direction, we shall not be denied our legitimate that is to say, the establishment of a right to carry at least 50 per cent of Merchant Navy Training Board. The our foreign trade in our vessels. Board would supplant the Governing That is being done by almost all other Body of Dufferin which deals with important maritime countries. one institution only, namely the Train ing Ship Dufferin. This Governing Body has been in existence ever since Shri Barman (Cooch-Behar—Re this institution was created. It was served—Sch. Castes): By what time? only last year that it held its hund redth meeting, and it has done very Shri Raj Bahadur: As soon as you useful work all these years. I must give us the money and foreign ex pay my humble tribute to this body, change to buy the ships, along with although I have also been its Chairman the necessary cargo also, because in and it is not for me to do so, but it is this matter, apart from other things, for the members who were there andthat is also necessary. We have ap the people who have really brought up pointed a Shipping Co-ordination and built up the traditions of this Committee—and rightly. I think it is great institution, and I am sure under within our rights because Government the care of the new organisation, the Merchant Navy Training Board, new also are entitled to choose their own successes will be achieved. vessels. They can very well say that government-owned cargo or govern ment-controlled cargo should be carried in our ships and in our. So far as cargo availability is con cerned, I would like to mention that bottoms alone. That should not be taken to mean, as has been done in we have been making steady increase certain quarters that it is flag discri so far as the share of Indian ship mination. We are entitled to do that ping is concerned compared to the At the same time, J think I shall do ■hare of foreign shipping in our in well if I say that our.private shippers ternational trade. In 1955-58, it was also should patronise our own ship 0.5 per cent compared to the dure of ping. Maybe for some time they may foreign shipping of 93.5 per cent; in be incurring some loss. But they 1950-57, it rose to S.4 per cent while should also help the Government in foreign shipping came down to 91.0 building up the percentage to 50 per per cent; in 1957-58, it rose to 9.8 per cent cent and foreign dipping came down to 90.3 per cent So the trends are optimistic and hopeful and1 think we ShrimatMtomka Ray (Maida); What can confidently look forward to the about building soipe of the ships our time whan we shall b^aUe to achieve selves? 33 LSD—& 9809 Demand* APRIL 4, I0W lo r Q n m tt Shri Ra] Bahadar: I am to We have created four Regional Offices. that. We have also appointed a Central Advisory Committee • and four Re I may say that about a million tons gional Advisory Committees. We have of cargo have came 'within the pur also created a post of a Naval Archi view of the Shipping Co-ordination tect for the specific purpose that this' Committee. I think Members will be ofltcer may suggest improved d— explore new routes—this refer* to as 33 per cent of the coastal trade is $ur shipping companies In the private being carried under foreign flags. That as well as the public sector—and go is not a fact. So far as dry cargo is to new routes, we cannot think of concerned, the reservation is complete even augmenting our Indian shipping for Indian shipping. Only tranship tonnage; nor can we hope that the ment cargo is allowed in chartered objective of 50 per cent (hare in our ships under foreign flags but that too foreign export-import cargo can be after enquiries are made from Indian achieved. It is very essential that companies whether they are prepared 'even some losses, if they occur, to take that transhipment cargo, and should be borne in this particular at when they refuse to carry it then tempt, because our trade routes and alone a foreign ship is allowed to shipping routes cannot be built up carry it as a special charter. Sup without some sacrifices on the part of pose a cargo is meant for Madras, but P>e companies concerned. the ship comes to Bombay. It has to be taken to Madras. A ship may not like to take that cargo. Therefore, in I would like to repudiate the in such cases only by special permission sinuation or suggestion of my hon. a foreign chartered vessel is allowed friend, Shri Punnoose, that the to take such cargo. Chairman or the authorities of the Government are functioning in an Shri Pnnnoose: How much would apologetic manner. They are not. it come to? They are of course functioning like decent gentlemen and they won’t like Shri Raj Bahadur: The percentage to be offensive in their attitude. They comes to even less than one per cent would like to be accommodating to of the total coastal cargo so far as the extent that men of understanding dry cargo is concerned. But things do and which they expect from others. are not the same in respect of oil That is all I would like to say. cargo for which we require tankers. We have got two tankers, one in the ^Shri Punnoose raised another point public sector and the other in the that the Government have not given private sector. We have already taken foreign exchange to the Government steps and placed orders for a third Corporations. I may say again that tanker. When that tanker, which we the demand for foreign exchange came hope to get soon, is obtained, each much in advance from the private one of the three oil companies will shipping companies as compared to the have an Indian tanker. But that Government Corporations, because cannot suffice because the cargo is the former were earlier in the Add. much more than these tankers can A sum o f Rs. 25 lakhs only was allot carry. We have got to have many ted to us by the Ministry of Finance more tankers for that purpose. I can as foreign exchange for buying new not give the estimate this time. But, ships. That was allotted to the pri I think it may be given by the Minis vate shipping companies. But now try of Fuel. we have another allotment of Rs. 1 Reference has just now beR crore and the public sector will have and earlier also about the Hindustan Hs due Aare, keeping also in view Shipyard and what we are doing to the fact that it was not given anything buifd up this industry. I would like out o f Hie Rs. 25 lakhs. to finish this within 5 minutes. About the Hindustan Shipyard I may say So far as th6 sham of coastal trade that only two facts*were mentioned is concerned, I think the hon. Member here. Firltly, the value of the total labours voder same sort of mis-can.- production has'registered a rise of ception or he has ‘perhaps not been 15.2 per cent from Rs. €98.04 lakhs in rtjhtly informed. He says that as much 1956-57 to Rs. 343.31 L>Mm in 1957-58 98X3 ItaMmdt APRIL 4, >009 for Grants 0814' w iShri Raj Bahadur] The ratio between labour employed So far as publicity Is concerned, - and the material* consumed is also an fcave dome as much as we eaa—I have interesting fact I would like to men- tot the facts and figures—and a num tion that because of its importance, ber of results have been achieved. As the average number of workmen on bon. Members already know, in 1987, roll in 1982-58 was >714 and the pro the number of tourists visiting was duction was of the order of Rs. 1S5.S6 Only 80,544 and in 1958 it has register lakhs. In 1987-58, that is in 8 yean' ed an increase and gone19 to 92,202. timet the average number of workmen the foreign exchange expected to be on roll increased to 3948 Le. by about earned from this increase will go up 280 only and the production increased from 16.2 in 1957 to 19 crores or man to Rs. MM1 lakhs by about Rs. 218.5 In 1958. lakhs. The production increased al- - most by 800 per cent and the number I want to make a brief referenda of labour employed did not increase to what Mr. Tariq and Mr. Manaen- to that extent So, I can say that so said about certain matters about home far as efficiency is concerned, the tourism. I can only say at this stage shipyard is slowly coming into its that we shall take full care of that own and1 better results are befog «a«f we eretrying to da tint even achieved. present. As hon. Members know it did not find its rightful place in the I will be failing in my duty if I Second Plan and, therefore, as soon as left tourism untouched because so we formulate our plans for the Third much has been said and so much in Plan we shall re-orient our policy terest Jus been shown about it I on tourism and give prominence to would only say that we have tried to home tourism as well. I think that make steady progress. We have put will suffice for the present up 11 buildings or rest houses and canteens are expected to be ready by About hotels and rate structures I the aid of 1959-80 and SO such build would like to thank the members who ings could be ready by the end of the did fine work. I would refer in t* . . current Plan period. So far as low to two or three points. At present, income group rest houses are con we have a little less than 10,000 hotel cerned, 20 such rest houses are ex beds in about 120 hotel establishments pected to be ready by the end of in the country. Five years ago the 1959-80 and 8 more by the end of number of hotel beds was about 8,000. 1900-61; in other words, 28 by file This is a fact that should be noted. aid of the Plan period. In addition, There has beqn an increase of only a large number of log cabins and 25 per cent in the number of beds shelters for pilgrims, about 40 in num But the number of tourists, in the ber, would also be ready by the end period, has increased by about 400 of 1909-00. per cent. Therefore, the emphasis that has got to be laid and attention that Thus, we have already three rest has got to be concentrated on the houses obstructed at Sanchi, Bodh provision of more hotels and hotel Gaya"1hd Kusinara. We hope to beds is obvious. purchase 4 more In Mahabalipuram, XQora, Ajanta and Khajuraho. We Then, 1 would like to take this op>- know that still quite a numbfcr of portunity to inform the House thal complaints are there in regard to rest so far as the reconrntendattgns of the houses and dak bungalows and wo Hotels Committee are concerned, the? are taring tit# matter up with the recommended that hotels which catei State Governments as prtssingly as to the needs of the foreign touristi we can and I think'some results have should be classified -as it is dene or bean achieved. In regard to some o f—■.the International basis of all the coun them we propose to do more. tries called the %tar* system. A smal 9 tlJ Demand* CHAITBA 14, 1881 (SAKA) /or Grants 98x6 iMwnwiitttfi to inspect the hotels- and With these observations 1 hnv» classify them would be act up in Jan- answered most of the points that have jury I860 and by the middle of I960 been raised. I am thankful to all the too classification irdrk would be com hon. Members here and, even more, pleted. I must apologise to the House for the long time that I have taken and parti Secondly, we agree in principle that cularly to my senior colleague for I the rate structure in hotels should be have encroached too much on his time. governed by the widely accepted I can only say that, as I have said Hubbert Formula with slight modi earlier, we have not made any specta fications to suit Indian conditions; cular achievement. We have made 'steady progress of which the depart Thirdly, that suitable legislation ment concerned can be proud. I pay should be taken up in hand covering my humble tribute to the workers and all the relevant aspects of the hotel officers who are dealing with the industry; various departments in the Ministry TV for this excellent Work. Fourthly, that in order to meet the ever-growing need for trained per Several Hon. Member —rare. sonnel in hotel management and hotel craft in india, a first-rate Hotel Train Mr. Depaty-Speaker: There are ing School should be started as early several hon. Members rising simul as possible; and taneously; how can they speak to gether? Fifthly, in order to enable the hotel industry, which plays a major part in Shri Barman: Sir, I want one infor the development of tourism in India mation from the hon. Minister. and in earning foreign exchange, every possible assistance should be Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Still there is given to the hoteliers both for start time; the Minister shall reply to the ing new establishments as well as for whole debate; and, if still there is improving and maintaining • good something left, he may put the ques a^ndard in the existing ones. tion then. Sir, I will now refer to the Pathan- Shri Barman: I want to put the kot Reception Centre. Mr. Tariq re question to the hon. Minister who has ferred to this and I may tell him that spoken about National Highways. the Railways have already got six re Within two minutes I shall finish my tiring rooms, two waiting rooms, two question. toilet rooms and a restaurant for Class 1 passengers. They propose to pro Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Yes; the hon. vide within a few months, one air- Member may put his question. conditioned dressing room and within a year or two five more retiring rooms Shri Barman: Sir, on the National for Class I passengers and six retiring Highway No. 31 in 1950, a bridge over rooms with 8 beds each for Class HI the river Torsa had been washed passengers. The Department of. Tou away. It is now 9 years pas^jpd the rism is constructing an upper class whole Eastern region remains cut off Rett House at about a mile from the during 6 to 7 months in the year. Has ^Railway station and that State Gov the Transport Ministry, by this time, ernment is constructinga Low Income dev&ed any means to put up the Group Rest House with -10 per cent bridge there? May I know how long subsidy from the Centre. The Kulu the Ministrywin take to finalise their Valley Transport Company has already project or'to construct the bridge? put op certain rest houses and wait ing rooms and retiring rooms for their Shri Raj Bahafenr: 1 will have to passengets. collect the necessary* information. 9g l7 Demand* APRIL 4, 1BS9 fo r O ralM 981! (Shri Raj Bahadur] But, from memory I can s*y that thia «nftnfV ^ t i wfm* $* river is known for its vagaries, floods, change of course etc. We shall try to firow. vrNrf <*r f . *Ax I* iftfir look into it and do whatever we can. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I am sorry I frr firor | 1 have now to reduce the time to 10 minutes. Those who want to put questions would have no opportunity ^__ *■»- - A- ----V _Jk_ to speak then. Shri Braj Raj Singh; WT W *fWJ[?T m W W W W VtK he may take only 10 minutes. f o r *ra$T¥ *w f ^ *ft *[*rnnrr f*w*fr %(f^4 «rr ^ wrtrar f«nr : fim r | 1 w % ** »iWf 3 v^Rfrsr # fWT $ "favZT qfc? % % t *rtr w w ? f w v t %*■ WIT ^if^») I *ferra»r a r * % tot fa t o *TT ’HT^T f i f i t f v R f»T iCHM£ii£9 W?!l$ jtlft $ # f t l *jjpprt f ijjftTOff tit ?R35 % * «wr ’Rm j fti t o fim ^ vtfimr fwifr *rar^ * $ q jp^r 1 ftrc ifr ^ arwift rnftr aft f*nrr nwra *ftr TO .q ft r o *n*TOT qnjf ?fr arrrft 1 ^rt?r «ft «nps^ »fr | # «iftf to *t «rwr ifiwrr «ftt <66^h ^T*ft «t [tftMTTT f#fj vt at a* Pnrmf %• swm ton $ % *er ¥ t * m % WNr epsm f t tif fr aft aftar 3iw*fV i A fitfifwc w f f %'^prr ^rtprr IF *w*r | m % fffv f jSNt jfft ? ^ ft 4 k tft w h $ T*T ( »IT *l$f Tfr 11 ft?*t * «rt | » »t*r >1# «rf |, at far wf?r $ i f i # Tsrt w w im urr ( ? &fa*r vm r^r ^ p m f *rr . ^ w t o t | f% firftaeT «nv nr «f c # , ?ft 5TTTO vi#it ^ OT «fv¥ % M fift %■ £ S 'U lakhs to £ 3 87 J«kh*. In Before I refer to the many points other words, with the excaw tnat we that X have mentioned m my cut have paid, we will be able to pur motions, I would like to say one thing chase ft Viscount itself. about Safdarjang. There is an air- cooier in tne transmuting station. I I would like to know why this vari am informed taat the air-axuer is ation has taken place. According to now emitting only hot air and not clause 3,12* per cen t is the maximum cool air. That may be looked into. vari&uon contracted for. I would like to know why that maximum variation Coming to Poets and Telegraphs, has been allowed in the hrst contract. very few hon. Members have so far That u the point which I would like referred to Posts and Telegraphs. We to have clarified. heard a lot about Posts and Tele graphs during the last year. Ceruun Having said this, I would like to basic issue* are now raised. 1 would say something about civil aviation. like to say that when the hon. Shri There are now ten Viscount planes Jagjivan Kam was M uster ot. Tnuos* in service There is the morning port and Communications, on 22-3* service from Calcutta to Bombay, 1058 he stated mat due to historical from Bombay to Calcutta, and aieo reasons the trade union of Posts and to Delhi We find that there is no , felfcgr&pns employees has been re morning service from Madras. My cognised as a trade union. As the friends are asking—I really want to non. Minister knows, even before re have some clarification—why there alignment when all these nine feder is no morning service from Madras. ations were brought together, they Is there any discrimination of the were all registered under the Trade south? Is it because there are no Union Act Even before the Industrial servicing centres m the south, either Di&putea Act was passed, under rule In Bangalore or in Madras? If that 81A of the Defence of India Rules » so, immediate steps must be taken issues were referred to adjudication. for starting a servicing centre m Even now it is one of the industries Madras. Otherwise, Sir, the suspicion recognised under the Industrial Dis will always be there that there is putes Act as essential services where discrimination. they have to give suitable notice. About the staff much has been said But, having been recognised as a yesterday and also today. I want to trade union under the Trade Union make only one posit about the staff. Act and also under the Industrial That is about the provident fund that Disputes Act, certain restrictions are is being collected from the staff. There now sought to be imposed. The first is no enthusiasm, because they do not restriction has been under rules 4(a) know how much money has been de and 4(b) about which there* has been posited as they are not given any so much protest throughout the coun pass book. At least a pass book should try. The hon. Minister knows about be given of the method of collecting it I would like to mention only one the provident fund should be suit- point about rules 4(a) and 4(b). Here ably centralised. is an organisation whicl; has been re On the question of stratagem what cognised by the Government and at I would like to suggest for the con different levels negotiations do take sideration of the hon. Minister is that place. But the question is, having re Gauhati must be developed as a base cognised a particular organisation, are for receiving Skymasters and Vis we or are we not going to allow them counts, We must also develop many to function as a trade union? There other aerodromes for receiving these are certain tilings ‘which are normal heavy planes, particularly places like trade union utivities. Holding meet Madura. ings and explaining the decisions of 9825 Demands APRIL 4, MM 1P* Grant* 9806 [Shri Tangemeni] the trade union, holding meetings and Minister has also had trade union explaining a particular issue raised experience in the pak£ end I hope he " M ore the Director-General or a parti Will fully realise the importance of cular issue which we raised before this. They are not collecting money the hon. Minister and which was not for any political purpose or fbr lead considered, these are all normal trade ing a demonstration. union functions. They have been hav ing Als privilege to hold meetings after office hours inside the premises. Now, a particular worker—or even But now when any meeting take* they may have to have a particular place there is a definition of ‘demon employee; it has happened in the Rail stration* by the D.G. I do not know ways—or an employee may be so in- whether anyone is capable of giving dispensable'to be the General Secre such a wide definition to the word tary of the union. If he is in service, «■ ‘demonstration’. Even two people with all the facilities given by the going together may be termed as a department, he may not be able to do demonstration. Even if some worker full justice to the union. Then what says that he has got some grievances, ba&?enst is^ he. ia aakai to ceskgpL. H r that is termed as a demonstration. becomes an ex-employee. Rule 9 that , This has got to be put at rest I do is now sought to be brought in says request the hon. Minister, who knows that no outsider is to be an office this problem so well, to give a quietus bearer of the trade union. I am in full to the discontent that is now spread agreement with the spirit of that. I ing amongst the P. & T. employees. Would really like the employees to develop as good trade union leaders. Unfortunately for us, in the P. it T. Hie second point about this is on ifiovement there are very highly the question of rule No. 9. Rule No. developed trade union cadres. The 9 says that the P. & T. employees can question that arises k), supposing there not raise money for helping a victi is a P. & T. employee who has retired mised employee. There may be a »nd who is an office-bearer, is he an worker who has been discharged, outsider? Supposing there is a worker where the department may think-that resigns and then becomes an the discharge was legitimate but the office-bearer, is he an outsider? Sup organisation may think that the dis posing an employee has been dis charge was not legitimate. What is charged or victimised and then he the course open to them? They will pecomes an office-bearer, is he an out have to ventilate that grievance before sider? I do not think he can be an the Supreme Court or the High Court outsider. The definition of ‘outsider* It does require money. An employee cannot cover those people who had who has been dismissed will not be links with the organisation before or in a position to raise the money. I long before. That is the third point will give only one instance. In 1948, on which I would like to draw point Shri K. G. Bose of the Postal Depart ed attention of the hon. Minister. ment was dismissed. His case had to be raised "Before the High Court and the Supreme Court Ultimately, only On the question a t employees 01 the last year, the High Court of Calcutta! Civil Aviation Department I would I believe, held that the dismissal was only refer to my ^various cut motions, unjustified I am told that he has £ut I would like to mention one been reinstated. But for the money or two points. In my cut motions 1 that was rabed by the employees for Have mentioned how there are no pro defending his ease, thi^ would not per RMS vans. Although in one in have been possible. I can give many stance, in tiie Trivapdrum Express, more such instances. I know the hon. we have been demanding for the past 1 * 98?7 D enym dt CHAITRA 14, 1881 CSAKA) for Granu 9828 three yean (bat tbe T-9 must be re g fr «p*r im ** placed by a proper RMS van, even to ^ q fr^ r VXT9R vt ?rT^5r qr «rpt this day we, have not got it f t am r %ftr * t * t t m m * f t The Madras Circle has given in* vFm q r ^ f t srra t stances how the RMS section is under* staffed. The working conditions of srotfa % *nfr the RMS employees will have to be k m HI TOT ? iftiH fVT ^ considerably altered *1* ^5JT J> fa 'rfT^T Sir, the Ministry deals with so xrfWff % *rar*r fa*n*r Jf 5r?r many subjects, it is a vast Ministry I f t *raf & «n*r ^ would like to mention only one other fw »rt t ^ h %m point I shall not exceed the tanc limit that you have fixed for us This *r araurT fa ^t Ministry also deals with Railways S T O T % M 1 % fa*HT IjfafW |f # 3ft f o r What I would request is this Since an# 1 12-5-1841, on the recommendation of fafan vr fkvnr firajpr s r *t t 7- the Pacific Locomotive Committee, the Inspectorate of Railways has been ferr 5n*r 'sl^d ^Tff, placed under this Ministry There are 3T 3*r % qtstf, httc graftnr, four circles—Bombay, Calcutta, Banga f*trr jttt* fa r o ^Ysnr lore and Lucknow But the Lucknow ftx circle has got its headquarters still in | *pftfa * f* m Calcutta It should be shifted to t 1 A fto it | fa »rft irfR*r ft* Lucknow From 1-1*1958 to 15-12- fa r #fsrcz *sr «rc iflr 1958 this Inspectorate has earned out investigations m the case of 30 passen ffT ^ ^ f^ iR faJTT arPPTT I ger train accidents I request—and it is also a very modest request—that ^fa «»nr ^ t # whenever the Inspectorate holds such %ar?r TR>-?rrc ^ n rn r % * t 5^ enquiries the reports of the enquiries ^ ^ ’Tfa «FT may be made available to this House wRr^r f?r jtttot % ^ ^ fjf a ] I I ft q r m ^ anisr ^ Dr w h ff w rc q fm t ^ i t nft ?no| % «fTf?r «rwrr #>rw n ^ t v m i s w f a r 's r t t a % wror Piwit arm afa %^t ^ in^K( ft*rr anfor i ftwftr f w ^ f*ft it^rtr ipr Mvm 0 aftr n f^ n rq f *trofar ft ^ vra^ET «rnt •nftft ^ ijf u t «mr T * * m m iww -. ftfyrt lit «it i «m . U KV-*w Sf wwr f t n «rf ^WV wGt ? JU T, 9 % *w \s« trw w m wtA ywr d fc w *rar *n*ft •ft W«I whr : fFJT W y r t eit m « ~ U # WWIT WRft I f t q * y& wm 1 fcra?ft f i t ft# ^ r ?T * fm r « 4 f t t artW i fr ft* w r w iw rfw i ftFRK | fro% y r o v w r p f v m q tftt w yi* w m * =qr?m ^ fv ttvfth t , c?nf^r q>*tt»R # T«P*r 9 aft f r fftrar qft VH^cft vr 5t t, w *m f*r (Vto TWtofaf] *ra ta t m sfar |> wflr nr«8 ^ w tf t i ^r % nnwr u ^ x« S «rnr «c(f fa r *m $»*f «fr * i i*r $s*r w ¥V trar { , About the P. & T. I just want to point out one thing. Local call rates Irftwr wnr f» n t fr* «ift w r m Calcutta, Bombay and Delhi are fWff | ? fs fcir % prc tvw x not the same. The following would •rhr f far* % w % wnsr Show the difference. As it exists, in Calcutta there are two rates —10 calls %r ? *nt «tj 1 1 ftw lr «mr ^ a rupee for those who have telephones ^ TTV | f«rr t *ro under the “Own Tour Telephone* « f*nc | «rr vrav w ?r j s i *msr scheme and 8 calls a rupee for others. In Bombay it is 10 calls a rupee. In fir r % «mr w t r *m * t v Delhi subscribers under the “Own | ** t «mr jprn: i %Ft< ftpr *rnff Your Telephone” scheme need not pay % «rra tsst r r | for 300 calk a month. For the rest they pay Re. 1 for 10 calls. Calcutta * * *ft ffw r \ W f XX f*TT | 1 * ha* the most number o f telephones 'm a r i f% w **** * vrpr* and the most number of calls and even if the rate cannot be changed there should not at least be any discrimina ffnr foirr | nWt f t a n 4 t tion against Calcutta. • r a t * m \ \ ^ ■** *Wt «ft ? m f j T fc, StPpt farepn w n* Much has been said about ports, stops and so forth. I will not repedt $WT % «T*ft m $ HT9J5 them but I will associate myself with ftJT 1 1 T*T ^ppJr fc r t i % ^Trfanr the sentiments expressed by hoa. * 5 % VW 1 w fa t t f t I 1 W r w fnend Shn Raghunath Singh. I hope that Calcutta port will receive every % w tr t artf [Shrimati 11* Palchoudhuri] fVimlng to tourism, 1 have 0O* tinized in too harsh a way. Tbey point t o m a k e . I find that there are should be allowed to- carry them, three things in the administration of because the American tourists far the Transport Ministry which, ii ado instance, very often cany much more pted, will help the administration than six rolls of films. If they cany about tourism and publicity, to my such things we should not stand in ^miring. R a wing of the Information their way. I think for the foreign and Broadcasting Ministry could tourists such things should be allowed. They should be allowed to take function under the Tourist PeparV drinks, if they are used to taking ment and do a certain azxunuH of them. Prohibition andtourism do publicity our tourist publicity would not go together. be better. The same applies to build ings for the posts and telegraphs. If Lastly, I would like to say that a wing of CPWD or the Housing Min there is no mention of Bengal what istry could function under the Trans soever in the three ways in which port Department, the building, could money is to be spent on tourism. I be got through at a faster rate. Third would say that there are many placea ly, we need a department of shipping in Bengal, including Darjeeling and that can deal with the many aspects Kalimpong that would be of attraction relating to shipping. to tourists, especially Kalimpong. About the tourism part of it I find Shri BraJ Raj Singh: In Kalimpong that Rs. 90,13,000 has been spent on it is already there. the pay of officers, allowances etc. I quite realise that we have to pay eft : vfwpffn vt ?rt something to get something. But I hope that these Rs. SO lakhs and more is paid mainly to those low-paid offi cers who will go, make enquiries, con Shrimati Da Paleboodtasi: Of tact the people and help the tourists course, there is an unsavoury odour - at the airports rail ends etc., and not about Kalimpong now! But if it is to those arm chair officials who do not developed as a tourist centre—espe do the actual work. I am sure the cially, I can command the road routs; hon. Minister who has so much it is very beautiful—I am sure much imagintion will see this point and see of this unsavoury odour w ill dis that this is done. I also hope that he appear. Not only that, we can also will have tourist departments in fore arrange to earn some foreign ex ign countries under direct supervision change from the place In Bengal Sr, of the tourist department m India Darjeeling is the Queen of hill sta rather than work through our Em tions. I only wish that the Tourist bassies. Development Council might meet in Darjeeling sometime. There are two or three points about tourism which I would like to men Shri Raj Bahadur: They have re tion. The -iAttefnational Association fused accommodation for us for the of Travel Agents and AJr Transport meeting of the Council. Associator Facilitation Group have stated in their report that the first* iBninH ih PaicboaAari: I hupt filing to be done was that tourists the Bengal Government win aee to it should be treated as welcome guests that it is dene. Even if it cannot lie and not as potential law-breakers. located in Darjeeling, there are HtUa So, if they carry films or if they«carry places down the Darjeeling road that something else that they are used to, are very suitable, and I wi$ find k m y, drinks, they should not be scru out for the Ministar. " t 0843 Demand* CHA1TRA 14, 1181 ( SAKA) /or Gram* 9844 Then, there are two kinds of goat that was sacrificed No idea of tourist*—intimate tourists and specta the Shaktt cult or philosophy behind cular tourists! ‘ intimate tourists want it had been explained, and what was to see the life at India and the life of being put forth was in bad English! individual as such whenever they 1 explained it to her and I dare say— come m contact with people. There I she might not have liked the sacrifice think we can do a lot towards creat of a goat or not but certainly she did ing an interest in them by taking them not go away with the idea that babies to places of interest for the foreign wen being sacrificed. 1 think this is visitors like Nabadwip, and I am sure the tfort o f thing that we must guard the Minister will agree that if facili against so that guides do not go about ties are ottered, even the foreign saying that they are very good to tourists will find those places very eat, I mean, the babies. The American very pleasing. He can assure himself hdy told me afterwards, “Of course, o f this by seeing them himself and I <;ung goat we also find very good to will see that he also sees how I eal ” ful it can be on a moonlit night wnen kirtans are sung and the boats ply on With this I will just conclude and the river. I hope that he will make a say th*t India has vast potentialities trip to Nabadwip. for tourism. I think if we develop this we will gain the friendship of Mr. Depoty-Speaker:Is this invita the world because it is a land with tion simply for the hon. Minister or many attractions. To quote the words Is this for others also’ of the poets of Bengal, it is: Shrimati Ha Pakhomlhuri: For wfawr* run**” others also. Anybody who will come to Nabadwip is always welcome. That is India Sir, and tourism with all the fnenri hip that it offers will Also, if on the highways we plant gain India not only money—that is flowering trees m a planned way, we the least part of it, as our ban. , could get tourists to go all over the Minister has said that it is not from highways just to see our beautiful flowers. They have done it in the money point of view that we look at tourism, but it is the friendship France. They have encouraged it in and international amity and goodwill France and I hope that we will also that we will find as we expand in take it up tourism and more people come to Lastly, I only wish to point out India. that we should have training for the guides who guide foreign tourists. I 8hrt I . B . S. Bfert. (Almora): Mr. will cite one instance only which will Deputy-Speaker, Sir, the recent events prove my point One day in Calcutta In Tibet have underlined .the im when I went to the Kali temple I was portance of providing better transport horrified to see a guide explaining to and communication facilities in oar the tourists that that was where northern borders. At p^ejent most of sacrifices were made. He did not the border towns and villages are cut •peak much English. The lady was off from the rest of the country. This , asking as to what wa» sacrificed. He is particularly so in the case of areas said, "Very good to eat, babies". I adjoining the UP. border with Tibet was really horrified' I saw the lady and Nepal. There are no aerodromes. said, "You could not knock one down As far as telegraph apd telephone with a feather. Do you really sacri facilities are conceftied. they are prac ficebabies?* I also felt (hatyou could tically iton-existent. kaedt vie fMvn with a feather Sirl Z told the lady that H was net babies Mir. Daputy-Spaaiur: Hie hon. that ware sacrlBcedbut H was young Member is not audible here. He 9845 D tn a n d t APRIL i , 1M9 fo r Grants {Mr. Deputy-Speaker] might move forward or speak more Another important and essential loudly. road is to Munsyari and. Millam, which as I pointed out before, leads (Inter Shri J. B. 8. Blat: There are no ruption). aerodromes and telegraph and tele phone facilities are practically aoo- Mr. Depaty-Speaker: Order, order. aodstent Other talks should not be so loud. Aa haa. Mamber: Where? Shri jr. B. 8. B tt: . . . .to the Kungri- 8hrl J. B. 8. Blit: In border areas. Bingri Pass. Similarly, a road should be provided from Lohaghat to Pul Mr. Depotjr-Bpeaker: Now it is time Hindola on to the Nepal border so that tor making a speech and not for con our trade with that country may be sultations. facilitated. All these projects should be treated as national projects and Shri J. B. S. Bist: The first portion liberal assistance should be provided. was inaudible so I will repeat it I was referring to the border areas and In the matter of telegraphs and tele about towns which are on the bender. phones, the position is worse. Pithora- , I had said that they are. cut off from garh, the sub-divisional headquarters the rest of the country, specially the of the border area, has no telephone area adjoining the UP border with link. As far as the telegraph service Tibet and Nepal. is concerned, it is antiquated and cir An air port at Haldwani would be cuitous. In view of the affairs in Important from the point of view of Tibet, we should be in a position to tourism and it would also be a stra have a direct link with our borders. It tegic air port. More than the aero is true that the checkposts have a drome is the importance of roads. wireless link, but this is not open to Almora District is connected with the public and it is generally out of Western Tibet by means of two order. routes. One route is from Millam on to Kungri-Bingri Pass, thence to Hie next thing I would like to say Gyanima Mandi in Tibet. The other is that the postal delivery system in route is from Garbyang onwards to the hills needs revision. There should Lipu-lake Pass to Takulakot. There be more frequent delivery of mail in is a third route via Darina, but com the village areas. paratively convenient is the route from Garbyang. In spite of the fact that it is essential to provide a good Lastly, I would like to draw the motorable road to connect Garbyang hon. Minister's attention to the report with the rest of the world nothing ed decision of the P. & T. Directorate much has been done so far to achieve to wind up the Complaints organisa the objective. tion. This is a retrograde measure and deserves re-consideration. The It is tru# that there is a road from organisation was set up by Shri Rafl Tanakpur to Askote but this needs a Ahmed Kidwai nearly ten years ago lot of extending and the portion bet when he was the Minister in charge^ ween Pithorasarh and Askote is* a of the Department His aim was to kutcha and a fair weather road only. provide a speedy machinery for the Time has now come to extend this disposal of complaints from the public road right up to hipu-lake Paw or to •gainst the Department He felt that Garbyang* at least. This road also if this organisation was kept indepen should be connected* with Ahnora, dent, it would generate more public the headquarters at the District ooefldence and thatC f plaint Officers 9847 Demands CHAITRA 14, 1881 {SAKA) for G ram s 9848 alio would be enabled to discharge Mr. Depoty-Speaker: Shn Prakash their duties without fear or favour. Vir Shastn—I do not find him there. Ibis organisation, naturally, I think, Shn Rajendra Singh. created resentment in the department. The officers do not seem to have co Shri Rajendra Singh: Mr. Deputy- operated with it. As lone as Shri Speaker, 1 am very grateful te you Kidwai was alive, he assigned to it a that after all you have kindly given key role and maintained its import me some time. It m very often said ance m spite of their opposition. Even that we are living in an era of planned Shri Jagjivan Ram who succeeded economy. In spite of the fact that the him, realised the importance of this Minister of State has made out a long organisation and placed it on a per case to prove that all modes of trans manent footing. Unfortunately, after port in the country are not contradict his exist, the departmental officers had ing with each other, the fact remains an upper hand and they saw to it that that so far as this question of co this organisation did not function eff ordinated development of various ectively. Lately, I understand, it has modes of transport is concerned, it been decided to wind up this organis does not exfat today. ation. Thoae who are serving in it are to be absorbed elsewhere. In In the Planning Commissi oa, in tta future, the work they were doing is Second Five Year Plan, it was clearly to be done by the departmental officers laid down that the plumed develop themselves. ment of our economy based on rapid industrialisation depends on an effi cient and well developed transport system Quite a large ground has been I would like to know from the hon. covered by the previous speakers and Minister why this independent struc so, I do not like to repeat those facta. ture of this organisation is being taken I would like to coniine myself to away, and abolished. The experiment Indian coastal shipping only. which Shri Kidwai started was a uni- , que one inasmuch as it was adopted My hon. fnend Shri Raghunath with some minor variations by the Singh said, yesterday, that when the Union Home Ministry which started rail transport and road transport is the Administrative Vigilance Organis developed, it is in the nature of the ation on the same lines. The fate thing that coastal shipping will die meted out to Shri Kidwai’s pet scheme out What a fallacious conclusion has is strange and pitiable indeed he arrived at? I would like to say this. If his conclusion was based on the fact that in England with the de One word more and I finish. I velopment of road and rail transport, think that the Government should the necessity at coastal shipping has reconsider their decision to establish decreased, it is not today what it was the P. Sc T. Board. As it is, after the a tew years before But, my friend Bailway Board was established, ex has conveniently forgqtten that even perienced British officers of those in tibe U.S.A. where the road and rail days expressed the view that it had transport has increased tremendous been a mistake to have set up the ly, there has been side by side de- Board with vast powers which were 'velopment of coastal shipping. not subject to Secretariat control. I am told that there is a note to the Coastal shipping is important for effect that Government should not us not only because w e hjnre te carry try thi* experiment agafc. If this be coal and salt, not because this indus so, would it be wise to go in for a try or this Inode of transport has to P- 4k T. Board where Bwwtiflil cen be kept up even though it h irrele tral would be severely curtailed? vant, but because el the fact that from 9S49 Demand* APRIL 4, 1M9 fo r Grant* 96J* [Shri Rajendra Singh] the defence point of view and frost method adopted, as much of this the view point of our trade with our tonnage should be reached by the adjacent countries like Burma, Ceylon, end of the year 1959 as then- Indonesia and other countries. We after, we anticipate a sharp and have to see that our coastal shipping substantial increase in the demand is also improved and developed with for additional transportation faci other modes of transport On the lities." showing of the Minister himself, Now, I come to the financial results. telephone tafipps it cannot raise suffi As the House* is aware the year 1857- cient funds which should enable it to 58 closed with a net surplus of Rs. 371 launch upon a self-financing scheme i«irh« comprising mostly of surplus to cover its own expansion. The Under telephones. We were very general revenues would be substanti modest in the year, and we had ally benefited by any improvement budgeted or estimated for only Rs. 235 in this respect, and I B ee no reason lakhs. But the revised estimate has why such a development should not gone to Rs. S crores. For the first be welcomed on both sides. I am not time after several years, the post offices holding out a threat Even if there is have yielded some good surplus. And a revision, it would not be of a type it is a matter for gratification not only which would be really irksome or for the Minister or the Ministry but impossible or difficult for anybody. for every hon. Member of this House, and for that matter, for every citizen That brings me on to the telecom of this country. As the House is munication facilities. Apart from aware, 50 per cent, of the total sur providing increased postal facilities, plus is to be given to the general the major objective of the Posts and revenues. It is a proud day for us Telegraphs Department in the Second that we could make a contribution of Plan has been to extend telegraph Rs. 2 crores to the general revenues. and telephone facilities to rural and I see no reason why with increase in under-developed areas. As in the case efficiency and the output of work that of post offices, the polioy for provid our satisfied and contented staff will ing telegraph and telephone facilities be putting in, very soon, we shall has been liberalised. Sven here, not make % contribution of Rs. 9 the deoartment is prepared to taee crores to the general revenues. With a loss up to Rs. 1,000 for places this position governing the financial having a population of more than 8000. working of the department, and the By the end of 1858, 847 telegraph, likelihood of more profit* accruing offices had been opened, and 778 with further investment, at least in public call offices had been opened, the telephone services, I hope that the and 270 new telephone exchanges had Planning Commission and this House been opened. Although this is not a will look kindly at the relevant de big thing, yet I merely wanted to velopment schemes, and make such assure the House how, compared with the previous performances, develop larger provision to finance them as ment has been made in the Posts and would be required, because whenever Telegraphs Department; and the pace, our demands go, our department is is increasing as the years go by. considered as not so very essential or of that top-ranking class, and, there If thes« figures are not convincing fore. our demands are sometimes turn enough, I would like to mention that ed down. But when we point out that the mileage of telegraph eha«n«»l» we can make a contribution of Rs. 2( provided was 72,000 miles, and the crores to the general revenues, and number of new telephones provided God willing, and everybody co-operat- during the Second Pltn is 88,000. We frir. perhaps after five years, we could want that the total figure ultimately mak a contribution of Rs. 5 crores, at the end of the Second Plan period ear demands must have some kind of should come to somewhere about 4} a priority and a preference, if the lakhs, so far as telephones are con Planning Commission and this House cerned. It is not a great fig u r e , but eta give it when compared with out previous per- foienance and the possibilities that we have got,? this is a great figure. But 1ft fact, department hr at present in a city like New York, there ar» considering whether (by revision of somewhere about 2 million telephone* {S 5 7 Demand* APRIL *, 1MI for QtWX 985! .'Shri S. K PaUll in one single city, and the same can really more then half of the country, be said of the city of London too. when these coaxial cables are Therefore, the figure of 4} lakhs for and that will give a performance the whole country is not a great figure. which is nuch bettet then trhal But circumstanced as we are, and Members have complained of in the considering the foreign exchange and course of the debate. the other difficulties it is a notable performancft Direct operators trunk dialling ser vice has been successfully introduced between a number o( stations This The department has taken in hand method has increased the operator' an ambitious coaxial cable scheme at output by 40 to 60 per cent We ex. • cost of about Rs 8 crores for link, pect to introduce this method on m or mg important cities like Calcutta, of the main circuits connecting m Delhi and Bombay, for providing high portant auto-exchange areas in Indit grade circuits for speedy disposal of That means that if we want to con trunk traffic Complaints have been nect Bombay, then right from Delh. made in this House about the difficult the number would be connected in ies of trunk calls You cannot imagine Bombay, so that at one place, at one how very anxious I am that these end, that much time is saved. That difficulties must disappear as won as is exactly what has been in operation possible; and some of the difficulties for some time, and we want to in will disappear But the difficulty now crease this so that the time that is is this; in fact, very often questions now being taken for the trunk phone are asked in this'House whether the will be reduced telegraph wires in some places were cut or not and so on and so forth Even then there is a 'oftgestion in So, you can quite understand that big cities so far as telephones are difficulty Therefore, in order to im concerned, and particularly in Delhi prove our telecommunication system, I am personally very much ashamed and particularly, the telephone system, because Delhi is the capital, and a coaxial cable scheme has been pro surely there ought not to be these diffi posed And if there were not the culties m Delhi, because a lot of noise difficulties of the foreign exchange, can be made if anything goes wrong possibly, a lot of progress could have in Delhi Therefore, the Ministries been made, but even then wo are and the Ministers are particularly making progress, as I shall indicate anxious that we should not really give jiow. any handle to the hon Members so far as the capital city in which they The work was taken in hand last live is concerned Unfortunately, the year. The work on the Delhi-Agra demands of the vcity were under section is nearly complete; it is for estimated, and therefore we have run about 120 or 130 mile's The scheme into difficulties, but we ar* doing our Is expected to be completed ui the best, our very best and possibly we Delhi-Asansol section by the end of shall expand the capacity m less than the Second Plyu due to financial one year. That is exactly what we limitations and shortage of foreign propose to do. exchange, work on the Agra-Bombay sector is likely to be taken up and a While on the subject at tele-com completed only m the Third Plan. J munications. I must say a word or am talking of Agra-Bombay, because two on the very satisfactory pragre— it is a triangle; napiely Calcutta-Delhi- made by the Indian Telephone Indus- Bombay; and. all the cities jnd tries during the past year. Ifee towns that are on the w|y would targets of production of the factory be covered. Therefore, it will covtr tor the year were general!; achieved. 4859 Dmmmtit CHAITUA (SAKA> fo r Gnmta 9860 • Due to increasing demands on ac supervision over actuals. '1 iifie were count of the increased tempo of deve complaints, and they were expressed lopmental activity in the country, the here also, that sometimes there may company’s pfbduction targets for 1959' be preference shown etc. All that 60 have been substantially increased. will disappear when this queueing As against the target of 84.000 tele system comcs in, so that calls m order phones during 1958-59, the target of priority would, be attended to. fixed for 1959-60 is 92,000 telephones. That 1* * very great improvement in We are now seeking foreign markets deed, and our research laboratory is too, so that if'th ose markets become responsible for this available, these targets can be further We are also going to experiment, increased with the help of this centre, with New items of production such as subscriber to subscriber dialling. We road signalling equipment can now hope to complete this system between be made in the country, and we need Lucknow-Kanpur, Dellii-Gaziabad, not import them from outside count Delbi'Hapur and some other ries. Railway control wayside tele routes during the current year, phones and portable way telephones and on the basis of these axe also tww being produced at the experiments it wduld be possible factory. Without mentioning the to cover in subsequent years at details of the working of the factory, least the important centres of com I may say that on the whole the LT.I merce end industry, so that trunlc axe doing a commendable job in the traffic between them would be more public sectoi We are very proud of or leS» automatic. the I T I and its performance, and Now 1 come to the creation of the here, with your permission, I send Mysore circle and the reorganisation my tribute to those people who are of the other circles. Complaint has responsible for this nice performance been voiced by more than one Mem ber, and I can quite understand that A very satisfactory feature of the a large State like Mysore not having progress of tele-communication in its own P. & T circle and a major recent years has been the gradual circle with the P.M.G. installed in it development of indigenous production is something which does not do so that today our telephone system credit- Anyway, we are trying to do depends comparatively little on foreign our best You can understand lots •exchange. This is an activity which of these difficulties have come upon does not get publicity because it is us because of the reorganisation of quietly carried on, but that activity States. It is not so very easy to have affects the very progress of our tele a circle You can imagine how many communications This achievement years it takes for the creation of a has been the result not only of the circle, for its developmet. With the establishment of the I.T.I. and the im difficulties that have come upon us all provement in the production of the of a sudden, naturally it takes some P. & T. workshop, but also largely of limit, but we have taken a firm deci the research that has been conducted sion that the State of Mysore shall by the Tele-communication Research have an independent & T. circle. Centre in the P. & T. Directorate. A call queueing equipment has been Shri Rami Reddy (Anantapur): designed which should enable calls to What about Andhra? be handled in the order of their Shri S. K. Patil: That also applies arrival and the relevant positions of to the other places. There is Andhra t&e number o f calls, the maximum for instance. • * delay, the number of pending calls, • fruity junctions, out-turn of operators Detailed arrangements are bring etc., would be prominently displayed worked ou£ We have already asked "with « vie«[, to facilitating effective the Myaora Government losuggest Demands APRIL 4, IMS /or Gram * {Shri S. K. PstU] « suitable accommodation for the office or two and final decision taken to of the head of the circle and to inti the expected direction, namely creat mate what facilities they would ing circles for these States. reader in finding suitable residential accommodation for the stafi. 1 must There has been a suggestion made say here that the Chief Minister of here that all these distinctions also Mysore and his Cabinet are very ac should disappear, of the major circle commodating in this matter, and they and the minor circle. Some of the have promised every help, so that we hon. Members want all to be styled can facilitate the coming into being as PJ&G A suggestion was made at the Mysore Circle as quickly as just now: why should they not be all we can do it. Until the question at directors? Whether they should be accommodation is settled, the date of called directors or P-M.Gs. or by any the formation of the circle cannot be other nomenclature, ultimately we are decided. trying to see that this distinction dis appears, so that the States may not In the meantime, Intricate questions feel, by the token of the circles there, have to beworked out, with the con* that they are big or smalL Surely, sequent distribution of jurisdiction. the poor P. & T. Department does not Mysore will have to receive the want to make itself responsible for Rairhur area from the Hyderabad the greatness or smallness of a State! Circle, and Belgaum. Dharwar,.Bijnore and Karwar from the Bombay Circle Now I come to welfare activities. All reasonable efforts are being made Consequently, the question would to provide increased welfare benefits thus arise of the future of the and amenities to our staff. Encourage Hyderabad Circle also, because it ment is given to co-operative societies would be attenuated. There is a de for multi-purpose stores, credit and mand for the transfer of Marathwada housing societies. Some of these to the Bombay circle. This would societies run co-operative canteens; compensate it for the loss at the tour tiffin rooms and recreation clubs have * Kamatak districts, and the Bombay been provided, and everything reason Circle would more or less remain as ably possible is being done to pro* it is and may not present any staff vide holiday homes, medical facilities and other problems, because some etc. A P. it T. Welfare Advisory portions will be taken out and some Board is functioning under the chair will be added to Bombay Circle. manship of ay hon. colleague, Shri After this, Hyderabad will be left with Raj Bahadur, in which apart from the eight districts at Telengana only the senior officers of the department, as against the ISor 14 districts which representatives of the P. & T. staff constitute the Andhra circle with are also associated. Steps are being headquarters at Kumool. The inten taken up to set up a P. & T. Sports tion is to combine the two postal circles Control Board, and all reasonable Into one, but the difficulties of office facilities are provided for the en and resident accommodation at couragement ef sports and other re Hyderabad would arise, and they have creation. Incidentally X must tell the got to be overcome. House that recently we had a meat These two proposals in themselve» ef P. Jk T. Sports at Patiala wfcieh would involve questions of office and t had the good fortune of attending; residential accommodation of a sub and X found what wonderful progress stantial natur< and* also the staffing our P. it T. sports have made. These of the circltfk This question has al are the activities that keep «p the ways raised very serious controvers morale ef the people, and it to ies and problems.. However, all this the intention of pwernmeat to will be sorted out in the next month encourage these aetivlfiaa mow a*i 9863 Demand* CHAITRA 14, l t t l ( 8AKA) for O rm tt more in every possible way so that happening in that Department. The our P. & T. sportsmen become some provision of adequate housing facilities of the beat spqrtsmen of this country. for our staff is constantly receiving • » our attention and I very much hop* Now I cone to postal buildings. that with the recent removal of th* Government is fully consctous of the ban on new construction, we shall b* seed to provide better and more ex able to go ahead speedily with th* tensive buildings for post offices. A construction of staff quarters. Th* large number of post offices are locat question of the P. St T. Board also is ed in rented buildings. The P. 9c T. there. I shall indicate that there were Department had a large programme of other difficulties also by which it is construction of departmental buildings not quickly done. Therefore, with during the Second Plan period, but the establishment of that Board, there how it was not done, the hon. House will be further facilities given to us knows very well. There was a ban in order that the target should be for some time, but the ban has now accomplished as quickly as possible. been lifted. We have again started in earnest, and we shall really accelerate Overteag Communications.—One of these activities so that we shall have the less publicised and yet very impor more and more accommodation far tant service of the Department is, the the offices. overseas communications service. At the time of partition, we had diryct radio telegraph service with three This ban has only recently been countries only, radio telephone ser lifted, and I am glad to be able to vice with only one and radio photo give the assurance to this House that service with only one country. Now, the construction of new buildings by we have direct radio telegraphic the department will be stepped up service with 24 countries, r»dio tele within the limits of available fund*. phone service with 24 countries and Of course, this qualifying clause will radio photo service with 10 countries. be everywhere, so long as there is a If the hon. Members happen to b* in Finance department of this adminis one of those 10 countries, they have tration! got the big chance of their photo graphs taken there appearing the next Even'with the financial limitation morning in newspapers here. (An and the ban referred to, a substantial Hon. Member: Send some of them. number of buildings, about 100, was constructed, renovated and extended. The important point to mention in In about 300 cases the post offices this connection is that we have made were shifted to more commodious a beginning with a scheme of making rented buildings, or the bu'lding ex India a transit centre for traffic tended by the landlord on the depart originating in some parts of Europe to ment undertaking to pay enhanced some of the countries in the Asian rent. I wish I could give similar region, so that we can r?lay from satisfactory figures of progress regard India these things. That is a great ing the construction of residential distinction indeed if we accomplish accommodation staff quarters. I it and we hope to(do it in the near regret, however, that again due to future. When fully developed, the financial limitations and the conse scheme will substantially increase th* quent ban imposed on new construc importance of India in the field of tion. out of a target of 4.500 unit* of • tele-communications. staff quarters, only a little over 1000 That brings me to the most import anits were constructed by the end of l is t —less than 25 per cent It is not ant question Of the P. & T. Board. 1 Save stated on the* floor of this • vocy good thing to ten, but the Bouse a Amber of times that th* mod Sanaa ahouidjknow everything that is 9865 Demand* APRIL 4, 1989 fo r Grant* 9(66- [Shri S. K. Patil] for the establishment of a P. & T. fore, a little more tinve.and delay Is Board is obyious. My predecessor, excusable, because the delay is not Shri Lai Bahadur Shastri, made that solely the responsibility of our pronouncement last year here while Ministry as other Ministries are also- speaking on the Demands (or Grants. concerned. It is a question of the The financial transactions ol the De- whole Government of India adminis partxnent, its administrative structure, tration. the service which it renders, the length and breadth of the country Labour relation*.—On the problem, which its service covers, especially of labour relations, what needs to be the building construction part of it, borne in mind and emphasised is the the need for a commercial outlook character of the service that is being and the necessity to come to sound rendered by the P. ft T. Department— and quick and urgent decisions—all I am particularly addressing my hon. these unmistakably point to a pattern friend, Shri Tangamani. It is a ser not exactly the same as, but more or vice vital to the life of the community. less similar to, the railways. Not Therefore, the mutual relationship- that we need a separate budget and between the Department and the staff things of that type, but as much of must be based on that fundamental competence to look after these things fact. Within the resources available, as we possibly can have, so that everything possible must be done to the long process should be avoided improve the working condition: of the and we can come to quick decisions, staff . But the staff must also re thereby adding to efficiency. A cognise the fact that the service has scheme has been worked out in suffi got to be rendered, and the efficiency cient details and as soon as inter- of the service can rest only on dis ministerial consultations are over, the ciplined and conscientious discharge proposal would be laid before the of their duties. While, therefore, we Cabinet for final decision. are always prepared to initiate and entertain proposals for improving the The House will realise that the ques prospects and working conditions of tion is somewhat complicated as it the service consistent with the avail Involves various Ministries and con able resources and other general limi siderable attention to delegation of tations on the basis of uniformity, 1 powers, and financial reorganisation am not prepared to make any com. of the Department Let us not be promise in matters affecting discipline hasty and impatient. All I can say and efficiency. It is for this reason just at present is that the decision is that demonstrations, interruptions in likely to be reached fairly soon. I work like go-slow etc. and other think before I come here to speak forms of interference with the dis perhaps next year, I will not have to charge of this service cannot, and make any complaints about it. Possi must not. be tolerated. I nave made bly by that time, this P. & T. Board a distinction between these two things: shall be established. there are grievances and complaints, • • regarding the service conffitfons; there As the House very well knows, Jt has sue grievances and complaints re taken us 30 years. It is not a new pdint garding the political rights etc. Mow, that has been created. But the pro these are two distinct things. Bo far gress that it has made during tb« last as the first thing, namely, improve one year is more wan uiat made ment of service conditions. Is con during the 29 yeprs that preceded it cerned, Ihave assured, and 1 A d i Judging from jhat staxfdard, one year repeat that assurance on the ftoor 'df Is not • long time. And once the the Souse, that the postmen and ottr Board oomes into existend, It will otaff, who really number romething become a permanent thing. There like 3£ lakh»—«s big mt that—wiE #8?7 Demands CHAXTRA 14, 1881 (SAKA) for Grant* g86 * pot have a better friend than the very happy to sap that the members Minister in charge. I will go to any ot the P. Sm T. staff are increasingly length, even ,fifht ui the Cabinet, in having their appreciation of this view tills House and anywhere, in ord*r to point and giving their fullest co- protect the service rights of i. »<;<* operation people so that the underdog can get a square deal. So far as that part Shri Mohammed Bias (Howrah): Of it is concerned, they should ex Will 4A and 4B be abolished? perience no difficulty whatsoever So far as the political part of it is Shri S. K. Patil: Is not my answer concerned, I cannot be equally ex sufficiently indicative? That is a pensive in my expression. They matter for the Home Ministry, but have got the right to have trade surely I do not take shelter under unions, because we have allowed that. I say that if there is anything It; all legitimate trade union ac m 4A and 4B which retards legitimate tivities will be tolerated. But union activities of the members, I when I say 'legitimate', I want will not allow that to operate. But to emphasise it and underscore it in beyond that if they want anything, order that this should not retard the surely they cannot have it, not be discipline and efficiency of the ad cause that it is my pleasure or dis ministration. Subject to these condi pleasure but because thereby I will tions, there should be no difficulty to not be able to maintain the effiden c/ carry on with the process of evolution. of the Department That is the only reason why I am saying so. Shri Kajendra Singh rose— Shri 8. K. Faill: On this I give Delay and lack of courtesy and assurance to my hon. friend, Shri prompt attention of the P. and T. De Tangamani. Interruptions should partment.—There have been many earn* at a time when the flew is not delays. People complain about the disturbed; otherwise, it will take trunk telephone service. Often I get longer time. * a telephone call at 2 o’clock in the morning and then sometimes I feel that I was telling my hon. friend, Shri there is something wrong with my Tangamani, that this is a matter of family or somewhere somebody is evolution as time goes on. We are ill . building up these practices. He is right in that sometimes some mistakes The Parliamentary Secretary to the might have been caused somewhere. Minister of External Affairs (Shri But as soon as they were pointed out Sadath All Khan): It may be a wrong to me, that the legitimate trade number. union activities of our staff were Shri S. K. Patil: No, the right stopped or hindered in a particular number. Nobody makes a mistake place, I have issued instructions to about the Minister's telephone num the P.M.GrS. and Directors that so far as that activity was concerned, it had ber. to be encouraged, because we have Mr. Depaty-Speaker: It may pro allowed legitimate trade union ac bably be that the family has grown tivity. Meetings held for that purpose bigger. . are allowed, but If the meeting b to be held for some other purpose which Shri S. K. Patil: The hon. Deputy- has nothing to do with the service 6peaker is right It is not a family conditions of those people, then surely of 8 or 10. I have now got a family bit ban. friend cannot expect me to of 3| lakhs. But it is not from family allow It H« was right when he said members. It i» frotfl out of 360*. that certain things which really must million people—the subscribers And be done la the Interest of discipline a family to Whatever size it has grown should bo doqt* Therefore, I am cannot be as big a\ that 4869 Demand* APRIL 4 1M I for Grants 9870 • [Shri S, K. Patil) It is somebody telephoning me to fact, when analysed, you will And that oamplain that he has beftn waiting for mors than 99 per cent of the work ‘ID hours or 12 hours $nd he has not of these services is don* without any yet got the trunk call. I can under blemish. It is the less than ctae per stand the exasperation of the man. cent that creates all th* trouble and Possibly somebody might be sick, that mains for the headlines every somebody might have died or there where. I am not really saying that it is some other urgent message to be is not important and should not be •communicated and so on and so forth. attended to. Just one alrcrash is al 'Putting myself into hla shoes, I can ways given banner headlines in understand and appreciate his diffi the Press, but 10,000 smooth crossings culties. It might be that perhaps in the meanwhile are not at all re there were some kind of failures and ported. It is in their very nature. the connection could be given. There Therefore, here what happens is this. fore, courteous and tactful handling One smgle act of corruption gets all •of the situation is what is really the headlines while millions and needed now by the staff of the P. & T., millions of transactions that daily go and especially of the Trunk line be on—and I have pointed out how many rceuse there is a direct talk. Trunk millions of these transactions we do means that a man talks to another and I am very thankful to my hon. sman You can quite understand how friend Shri Ferose Oandht who col very necessary it is Therefore, it is lected all these statistics for me as that we are emphasising that parti to the volume work we du—are not cular aspect of our discipline reported Therefore, there is reason able prospect of improvement in this I agree that such criticism is respect in the near future because we naturally justified and the public is are taking precautions and increasing entitled to expect prompt and cour vigilance teous service from the department I have no wish at all to condone the My hon. friend, Shri Vajpayee, said lapses on the part of the department why* this vigilance staff has been in But I wish to place before the House creased and so on. In one breath you some reasons, however inadequate, require that we should be tighten that have led to the deterioration in ing up discipline and, when we are the service. One is that phenomenal trying to do it, you say, in the same increase in the number of calls Dur breath, that all this is not necessary. ing the last 8 or 4 years, the calls It really becomes difficult Therefore, have increased twice, three tunes and we have to have some patience I even four tunes the number of calls promise that within less than a year before. I do pot want to give the we shall try to place this system on statistics. One could understand what its proper footing. I say it had gone huge burdens have really fallen on wrong for many years and we have these people Who were not prepared inherited all these things; but we are for it All of a sudden it has come. trying our best to see that things im Therefore, in the transitory stages prove. (Interruption). there were some defects. But I do not think they will be of a long dura The problems of delays and dis tion. courtesies have been recently reviewed in consultation with the PM.Gs. and Th* frauds, embezzlements and mig* heads of circles. The D.G P * T. had appropriations have been referred to. a conference with all the P.M.Gs. and They have been referred to on th* a code of discipline and a code of floor of th* House.« Very often I have instructions have been evolved. And, to answer* questions which, some when they are implemented many of times autk* headlines ixwth* Press. In thes* grievances will go. 4 * 7 1 CHAITRA 14, 1881 (SAXA) lor Grows g8?2 Apart from the technical defects in Government are taking necessary fee system, we come up against the action for the development of the human problem which is not peculiar three international airports at Bombay, to the Posts and Telegraphs Depart Calcutta and Delhi to make them fit ment but to all the services in the for the Boeings, the jet aeroplanes country. This is a national problem that will be coming early next year. for which solution must also be na Schemes worth Ba. 8.78 crores have tional and we have got to find it out. been sanctioned in this regard in order to lengthen and strengthen the Incidentally, I may mention that runways when I was not a Minister of this House I used to have a scheme m other parts of the country, particular The Air India International has ly in the city of Bombay, to start expanded 'the service to Moscow via clubs. The name of the club was to Tashkent and to Jakarta ma Singapore be 'Do It With a Smile*. Anything during the year and the frequency of you do, do it with a smile. And, if the India-Tokyo service was also in there is any department of govern creased from twice a week to three. ment where the Do It with a Smile A scheduled cargo weekly service was Clubs are very necessary, it is the also introduced between India and P. & T. You can call it by any U.K. in collaboration witn a foreign other name; it is a good romantic airline and there was a lot of ccitig name. There is nothing gloomy about cism about that I repeat that it is it. The darker the face the more an experiment till our aircraft can brilliant is the smile. It is always be released for that which will be meant for the good relationship bet possible when we introduce the jet ween our staff and the millions of planes By that time we shall have people whose work they actually do achieved very valuable experience in day in and day out. this transport An Hon. Member: A good motto for They say, ‘Oh, you are getung 7$ the pickpocket «r per cent profit; what about the other 92} per cent’ They imagine that Shri S K. Patil: Civil Aviation has 100 per cent, is profit—what we are been dealt with by my hon. colleague, earning There is also a lot of ex Mr. MohiudcHn The steady progress penditure Even if we lose something made during 1958-59 will be readily we get a sort of experience which is understood by comparing the figures more than valuable when we shall of revenue load ton miles in 1953 come to handle that traffic ourselves. when the Civil Aviation services were nationalised with those of 1958. Now all that needs to be emphasis In 1953, our load ton mile was ap ed is that there is great potential for proximately 37 million and in 1958 the expansion of the internal as well it went up to approximately 72 million, as the external air services. Though nearly double There has been steady the Indian Airlines Corporation have increase every year since nationalisa not been making any profits, I dc tion. The Department of Civil Avia hope that a day will oome in the near tion nofe maintains 84 aerodromes, 2 future when they will turn the comer. new aerodromes, namely those at Malda and Kandla having opened to The Air India has already establish, air traffic in 1958. It is expected that ed a name for itself in the aviation 4 new aerodromes will be opened circles of the world and competes during 1959-80. One Is at Tulihal, favourably with oth^r highly deve Manipur, another at Behala, Calcutta loped airlines of the world and the third is at Raxaul, Bihar and the fourth at Phoolbagh, Haldwam, I might tfnefiy make a reference to U.P. the Wheatcroft committee which was 28 L.S.D.—5. 9873 Demands APRIL 4, 1959 /or Grant* 9874 '[Shn S K Patil] appointed to report on the cost struc categories. The ports or places that ture of the Indian Airlnte* Corpora an commercially remunerative as tion. The committee have made they are now, Delhi, fiambay, Calcutta various recommendations—and very and other big ports. Then the routes, valuable recommendations—and our or places that are potentially remu thanks are due to the committee for nerative. They may not be remu the elaborate way m which they have nerative Just now but theie is a fine examined this question It has al chance that we may, perhaps, in one ready been placed on the Table of the year, 2 years dr 5 years, make them, House After careful examination we remunerative. Then also it is worth shall try to implement many of its while that they should be run and very valuable recommendations develop among our people the habit of travelling by air. Unless you have the particular facility the habit cannot That brings me to one question be created. That is the second cate which has been raised and raised time gory and again in this House and during the debate also Why not open lines In the third category are places here, why not open lines there and so which are neither commercially re on and so forth It is a legitimate munerative to-day nor are potentially demand I am not against it There remunerative but are of strategic- im fore, my mind is running on a scheme portance They should be covered too which I have not much time to explain That is the third categor> to you If there is anything wrong about it you can fill m the gaps so So far as that category is. concern that we can have a scheme, which we ed, we are trying *0 bring about a shall try to implement as quickly as scheme—It is not yet complete— possible whereby it should be possible for the Government of India and the State In the Act that we have passed Governments to join m giving a sub these Corporations, the Indian Airlines sidy We shall give that subsidy to and Air India International, shall be them so that they can commercially run as commercial concerns They operate them and .f there are any cannot run at a loss They may afford losses they are already covered to run at a loss for some years; but the Therefore, all these three things time must come when they must make working m co-operation V ill produce profits Therefore, their concern will results and after that the Members be only to run on routes that ulti. will have nothing to say If the hon mately results in profits That is the Members and this House extend co direction that we have given these operation 'we shall be in a position Corporations by passing that Act to announce that decision and imple Therefore, you cannot tell them, 'Do ment it as quickly as we can not make a loss’ and at the same time tell thfem, ‘Open this air service or that That brings me to shipping I do air service’ not want to take much time on ship ping because my colleagues has Yet, there ig.a necessity for these answered some of the questions that air services Although they may have been raised. I shall touch only not be remunerative qommercially, those which have not been answered they have* got other importance There by him. He has replied in esterwo to may be a big place in a particular ' many questions relating to shipping. State, the capital or ah important Many people were anxious and asked: place for tourists which we have got what is going to happen for the ful to develop , Therefbre, I want to filment o f our targets o f the Second! make a distinction between *the%e Plan—namely 900,000 tons G U T . He things and divide them *into three has pointed out that what remains to 9675 Dem ands CHAITRA 14, J881 (SAKA) for G rants 9876 be covered is only 1‘70 lakhs tons so that we can have more and mftre G.R.T. He has also pointed out that foreign exchange. Therefore, I am not we are' making efforts in that direc saying that? I shall rest on that be tion. The Finance Ministry and the cause it has been done. If the coastal Government of India were kind tonnage cannot be increased because enough to give us foreign exchange of the reasons that I have given, of one crore of rupees. That goes up surely the overseas tonnage could be by five times because we only pay 20 expanded and that is the attempt that per cunt in the first instalment. We we ate making. Apart from the pro can have five ships, as he has point vision of Rs. 37 crores that was made ed out, of nearly 35,000 or 40,000 we have made an additional provision tonnage. At the end of that when we of Rs. 9.25 crores in the Plan for the have really purchased tl-.e five ships development of shipping and that it is possible we may go back to the amount *ill be available. The Gov Finance Ministry and say: we are ernment attach the greatest import good boys and we have spent all the ance to the development of shipping money usefully and the ships will earn and my colleague the Finance Minis, foreign exchange and so give us an ter has agreed to allot, as I said, one other crore of rupees. We are hoping crore of rupees and that would be that this will be done. If in the pri forthcoming. We have started a vate sector somebody takes it up and Shipping Development Fund and that if he wants to bring ships, he has got will also now grow and that will be to be helped and wc shall go to help another source from which we shall him. There are thice or four ships draw. The National Shipping Board now being processed and possibly tliey has also been established with Shri will be purchased before long. There' G. L. Mehta as its Chairman and the is no difficulty at all so far as the House knows that on the 10th of this fulfilment of the Second Plan Target month, there will be the first inaugu of 900,000 tons is concerned. Incident ral meeting of that Board which will ally, I will refer to this plea which was be inaugurated by no less a person made about our overseas tonnage. It than the TPtime Minister of India. was made out as if there is something Therefore, with his blessings and the lacking in it. It is no so. He has already blessings of this House we shall pro pointed it out and 1 would repeat it. ceed not only to have a policy for the Our target so far as the overseas ton shipping board but to see that we nage was concerned was only 4.8 lakh bring m all the expedition that is tons and that had been fulfilled. If necessary in order that We reach our there is some omission or shortfall, targets. it is only in the case of coastal ship ping. Surely the hon. friends do not Some hon. Members raised the ques advise me that we shall go on in- tion as to why shipping was not really creasing that, whether there is need or brought into the core of the Plan. It not. The cargo has to be made avail is not that it is really unfit to come able; the minor and intermediate ports into the core. That is my desire too are to be built. There are many and I have been trying that it should other conditions which have got to be be brought into the core of the Plan. fulfilled before there is expansion of It is not merely for the foreign ex this. Therefore, they need not be change or money port*ef it that I want very anxious. The target of 900,000 it to be brought into the core but for tons was really in two parts: 4.12 for the dignity of the shipping itself, the the coastal shipping and 4.88 lakhs for • position of supremacy that it occupies the overseas tonnage. Hie latter in our national economy. Everything target has been fulfilled but that does that we bring for the core of the Plan not mean that we should not have has to be brought in* the bottoms of 900,000 tons G.R.T. If we cannot have our thips and surely the* vehicles th*t it in the coastal shipping, we shall bring them* should also be in the core increase it in tj»e ocean going tonnage of the Plan. But we need not be 9877 ’ Demand* APRIL < 1M9 fo r Grant* 9878 [Shri S. K. Patil] anxious about it because the Qovem- meat are doing exactly what they % Bill that we must intyqpwe the ship would have done if it was in the core ping of India and it will be a Rad o f the Flan. 'Whenever money is want* letter day if the tonnage were in ed, it is made available. It is not also creased not only to 900,000 tons but possible that all of a sudden we can Vhen we shall have a tonnage of two process many ships. We are process taillion tons and we should look to ing five ships just now and as soon aa that ideal It will no longer remain these are ready, during the nest two %n ideal and 1 hope that not in too years we shall process other ships and distant a time we shall be able to Z am hoping still that we shall fulfil, teach i t The details o f (he Hindus* if not exceed, the target of 960,000 tons lan Shipyard were given by my hon. GUT. in the Second Plan. Wend. Then a question arose as to What about the second shipyard. The Hon. Members from Kerala are very Shri Ragbunath Singh is not here. fcnsious whether there is something He is a great student of shipping and happening about the second shipyard sometimes I must take him very %nd whether it is disappearing some- seriously. In fact I take everybody tehene. can J januv them ib » t as seriously, but more so, Shri Raghunath *nuch expedition that can be put in It Has been put by us. There has been Singh, who always talks about ship* % competent committee which has ping. When he talks he talks with emotion which is sometimes so infec tdvised us about three or four porta W which preference was given to tious that I also get a little emotion while replying to that point He ttochin. We have appointed another Committee—not an expert committee quoted, quoted rightly, from the <>ver an expert committee. When the Uyod’s Register and pointed out that Recommendations are made about 3 or with all that India was, India had \ or 5 different ports, we have to come Qnly .57 per cent, o f the world’s total to a decision as to one out of them, tonnage—not even one per cent He that is why a committee had to be pointed out that we were very much Appointed. Somebody has suggested ■ backward. We can give some figures; While speaking and asked: why is it surely it is not a qualification for us. tkat another expert committee was But I may just point out that even Necessary? It was not an expert com- those who build ships and for whom inittee in that sense. It was a com - it is possible to build ships do not taittee to find out and ascertain which necessarily go for this tonnage nor *>uf of the given ports is really con take their ships elsewhere. These are venient That committee might be two things which are quite distinct Submitting its report and we shall indeed: As against this *57 per cent of ■toon consider it but surely that would tonnage, Australia has got - 54 per cent hot change the position. No political which is less than us and Canada, *63 *>r other considerations will come in per cent although they can build ships; the way. What is good for India is Belgium which build? ships for us has good for Kerala too and vice eerae. got *53 pfcr and Poland *29 per An inter-departmental committee is cent. Yugoslavia again, who build Examining the report of the UJL ships for us—a country from which Shipyard Mission. We need not have we are buying the ships—has got only toy hurry in this buslnss. Let us be *34 per cent So, these are two things * guided by the valuable experience that .quite apart You may build ships but Ve are gaining In (he first shipyard you may not neyessarily use them; (hat The House knows very well because is another ttyng; that is an industry. questions are asked and answered as Using it is a different matter. So, an to how much leases weincuned In increas* has to be made'and I have that shipyard. We are gaining very said in this House*when I introduced Valuable experience iftised. T o t the 9879 Demands CHAITRA 14, 1881 (SAKA) for Grant* 9880 first lew years the losses are inevit about 30 million to 31 million tons. able. They have fot to be improved. We are proposing to extend it to 41 Therefore, with the background of million tons. these leases and with the background of the experience oi the first shipyard that we have, there should be no This brings me, Sir, to the port undue haste about it although so far of Calcutta about which I must speak as the location is concerned it is a in a little detail. The rest of the matter that will be decided very soon things have been given by my bon. indeed. colleague. I would like to assure the House that if there is anybody in thia House who is most anxious to see that Then, the Department of Light Calcutta Port must be saved, it is the houses and Lightships is a self- Minister in charge of it, and there supporting department and its need be no anxiety in your mind that revenues are derived from light due there is anything which was possible levied on ships arriving at or depart* to be done and is not done by the lng from a port of India. The current Ministry. rate of levy is 25 nP. per ton for steamers and 6 nP. for sailing vessels. The income of the department at the I can understand the position of Cal existing rates is Rs. 48 lakhs a year cutta. It is not a small thing. I do and expenditure is Rs. 22 lakhs. The not know how much it cost when the excess is transferred to the general Calcutta Port was built, but to-day the reserve fund for financing capital capitalised value of Calcutta Port ia works for navigational aids. The not less than Rs. 200 crores. Apart accounts of the department are main from that, it caters to the population. tained on a commercial basis. During It was pointed out by my hon. friend the Second Plan period schemes in Shri Raghunath Singh that it caters to volving an expenditure of Rs. 323 17 or 18 crores. It il the largest port will be executed. we have. There are other points too. There is the question, of salinity of It is proposed to amend the Indian water for our engines, boilers etc. Lighthouse Act so as to levy an What about the 6 or 7 million people increased charge up to 50 nP. per ton. in Calcutta? The salinity is increas We shall not begin with 50 nP.; possi ing at a pace where it will be impos bly we will start half way between sible after some time to really have 25 nP. and 50 nP., that is 37| nP. per any water, drinking water in Calcutta. ton and ultimately we shall go to Surely, whatever else you may do for 50 nP. per ton. This is an enabling Calcutta, you would not be so harsh legislation. It is expected to yield an as to deny drinking water to the 6 or additional sum o f Rs. 24 lakhs largely, 7 million people of Calcutta. But the in foreign exchange. It is expected point is, though it is not our desire or that installation of some of the impor otherwise that it should be so, there tant navigational aids will be com were some difficulties. We are trying pleted during 1950-60. The depart to iron them out, and I think we shall ment has been doing extremely useful very soon succeed in ifpning them out work. It is internationally recognised that providing navigational aids mchns safety at communications at sea. X am There are various remedies suggest quite sure, when the legislation cornea ed. The beat remedy is that Hooghly before the House it will be imme must be Hushed by the inflow of water diately peseed. from the Gangej in an adequate man • ner. % There is no other solution to Then X come to major porta. The that problem That is the only wajr present capacity of six major ports, as by which Bhagirathi can be made fcaa been givA by my hon. friend, is navigable, by whidh there can be an 98ftx Demand* APRIL 4, 1059 /or Grant* 9882 [Shri S. X. Patil] answer for salinity, by which other would be neglected, as .if it is some difficulties can be got over. All that thing in exchange of Calcutta Port I 'can only be done if the flush from want to disabuse the minds of those the Ganges comes. That is exactly hon. Members that it is not in lieu or what is intended by tbe Ganga m place of Calcutta Port This is an Barrage and the Iferrakha Barrage. independent scheme. It has got to ba done As the House knows very well, when partition came we went a little out of But even with the flushing of our way, if I may say so, because we Bhagirathi river it cannot be possible had the future before our 'eyes and for us to have the required draft of we gave one district, which we should 30 feet to 32 feet we want in Bhagi not have normally given, to Pakistan rathi. Therefore, some kind of a port in exchange to have another district instead of that will be necessary. for us because that affects this Bhagi- Therefore, the possibility of it is being rathi, the Ganga Barrage or the considered There need be no impres Farrakha Barrage. Therefore, our sion whatsoever, therefore, that as this intention* are quite clear Nobody Haldia Port ts being thought o f that should doubt them. Even as early as may perhaps minimise the chances of IS to 14 years back when partition the Farrakha Barrage or the Ganga was made all these things were in our Barrage There is nothing really in mind, and we are trying to think that our mind of that description, and that that is the only solution point also need not perturb the minds Men after men, many people, many of the people • experts have examined the situation and found that that is the answer, the Shri S. C. Samanta: May I know correct answer, the answer that would whether any final decision has been not jeopardise the navigation or any taken to start work at Haldia9 other rights of anybody else—Pakistan and so on. I am merely saying so because there should be no impression Shri S K. Patii: My hon friend in the House that possibly because knows, and he may not expect me to there are some difficulties we are post tell everything on that question Even poning it. My hon. colleague, the after taking the decision we have got Minister of Irrigation and Power, has to see some other consequences against made an unequivocal statement on the which the remedies have got to be floor of the House some days back that provided in time. This is a very res it will be taken up early. ponsible Government and when it undertakes to do a thing it does it. That brings me, Sir, to another ques Therefore, all those consequences that tion, and that is about the port of we imagine, namely, what would Haldia. We call it Haldia but my happen in the eastern region, how our hon. friend, Shri Samanta, corrected traffic will be affected there, what we me and said that it is called Haldi. must do in order to safeguard that In all records is called Haldia and traffic, all these questions are under not Haldi. ^Thejther it be Haldia or very active examination. As soon as Haldi, let us not quarrel over that. our preparations are ready we shall Hie question asked was whether we be taking up the work. What the hon. are developing a port there. We are Member is really interested in is that thinking of the possibility of develop the Farrakha Barrage must come, and ing it Possibly, some of the Members not merely a resolution on paper that coming from, that region and, psrti- the Farrakha Barrage will come. I am cularly, who swear by Farnkha very anxious to see that the Farrakha Bunge and Ganga Barrage, Barrage does tome, it flushes Bhagi that when that porte comes up Calcutta rathi or Hooghly, all thfrsilt and sand •9883 Demands CHAITRA 14, 1881 (SAKA) for Grant* 9^84 disappears and all those giant bars to carried by( inland water transport -which reference was made by my hon. The Joint Steamer Companies carry colleague disappear Then at least 24 80 per cent of the traffic. They were feet or 26 feet draft would be peren in difficulties end they wanted accom nially available to us. All these modation up to Rs. 30 to meet tilings are of great importance, parti their current cash requirements. The cularly the drinking water for the Joiyt Steamer Company occupies a citizens of Calcutta special position and Government have therefore given them a loan of Rs. 30 Reference has been made to Bombay lakhs to be repaid in live yean. Port and also Vishakhapatnam Port Contnbutions have also been made to 1 do not want to go into all those file joint, steamer companies to cover things because those questions have the conservancy expenditure on the been answered before, and I can Brahmapurtra A pilot project for assure the , House that if anything towing the country-boats was started remains they can refer those matters in January, 1958 in Bihar with the to me and they will be answered. help of two small tugs The services They can also be answered on the revealed that there was very little -floor o f the House movement of internal traffic in Bihar through these services. The Gokhale My hon friend referred to minor Committee has also made its report ports There are more than 280 minor They have made several interim ports and intermediate ports in this reports The final report will 4ake country We cannot take up all of some time But there is no hurry them in hand with the limited grant about it These reports are very of Rs 5 crores that we have got But detailed and are very good reports so far as the claims of Tuticonn and Mangalore are concerned, they are the 16 hrs. burning topics I cannot enter the lobby on any day without hearing That brings me to the question of about Tuticonn or Mangalore As soon the development of roads on which as I enter somebody will come and ask eloquent speeches have been made 1 as to what is going to be done about am particularly grateful to my friend Tuticonn which happens to be on the Shn Masam and Shn Mathur and east coast, or vthat is going to be done many other Members who really made about Mangalore which is on the west such a strong and almost unassailable ■coast We are examining that ques plea on behalf of road transport I am tion. I can promise hon Members that particularly grateful to those Members subject to what the expert opinion and other members also of the Com etc Height be, because those factors mittee that was appointed—the Inter- have got to be gone into, very soon State Transport Organisation Com we shall have both Tuticonn and mittee of which my bon friend Shri Mangalore ports turned into, as I said, Masam was the President. The report major ports, one on the east coast and has been in our hands It is a very the other on the west coast. That is commendable and good document, and of a very big order Each one will I convey on behalf of the Government {Shri S. K. Patil] Having said that, X refei to another modern traffic everywhere in th* aspect Many people have been asking world goes in that direction. We can that question: is there really e kind not be away from it, and we ere only o f rivalry between the two systems— one small unit in the entire inter road transport and rail transport I national system of transport Hon. cannot understand this business at Members will know that there have there being a controversy or rivalry. been lota of motion pictures on th* Ours is an undeveloped country and subject SO to 60 years ago, every- both modes of transport have got to body in the United States of America be developed. I dare sa y ' at least swore by the rall-road. Wherever during the next 28 years these is no you go, it was rall-road. People usedi chance at all of any rivalry in this to invest their money in rail-read*. direction. Therefore, we should not But now many people do not invest talk in terms of any rivalry. We it on rail-roads because they know should surely protect the rights and that the time o f rail-roads is up. Now I can understand that they should be there are questions on speedways, free protected and they will be protected. ways and 'through-ways and what not But apart from that, there is no diffi The hon. House may know that only culty whatsoever. four years ago President Eisenhower There may be a little competition made a demand for a grant for the sometimes and that might take away development of road transport. He the revenue of the roads to the rail only asked 110 million dollars for way and also the railway’s revenue 10 years. That means 11 million may be taken away by the roads. For dollars per year. That means Rs. 5,500 that matter, even our inland transport crores for the development of road revenue or the coastal shipping transport for a year. He made an revenue have been taken by the rail apology to the Congress that he was way. But ‘taking* means, where is it not in a position to provide more funds taken? It all goes to the coffers of although the situation justified that the Government of India. It is a ques more funds should have been provided. tion of co-ordination and adjustment I am saying it just to show that that which shall be done, and there should trend is developing everywhere. be no feeling in the country as if Take, for instance, Germany. 20 there is some kind of rivalry between years back or 30 or 40 years beck, the them. Surely we cannot have any railways held sway and naturally so. rivalry and so far as my colleague the Now, road transport has come in. The Railway Minister is concerned, between autobahns have come. Whatever Hitler him and me there cannot be any might have done or might not have conceivable rivalry whatsoever. There done, the one good thing that he has fore, hon. Members need not go by done for Germany is the creation of that impression. this autobahn which carries cars and In this connection I can say that the trucks speeding at the rate 'of 50 to 90 Government is proposing to constitute miles per hour, and also with B ton or a rail-roed co-ordination committee in .10 ton trucks and trailers attached consultation with the Ministry of Rail to them. This should open the eyes ways and the «Wanning Commission. of the people. This "is the pattern at We are also aiming at greater transport everywhere, but b this co-ordination in the programme of country that point of saturation has manufacture of auto-vehicles in this not come. It will take at least 28 years oountry. I am saying all this because to come. It will be for the Planning I do not say that the claims of road Commission and the people placed in development have been ignored, but high positions to take a long range that they have been paid as greet and view of the situation and it if not far concentrated attention as aught to be a poor Transport Minister who can given. I am not making any com only look to transport *t present TJiat kind of thing will c o m e after so many plaint against anybody. Hie trend of « 9887 Demand* CHAITRA 14, 1881 (SAKA) for G rant* 9888- jw in That long range view will be Shri Raj Bahadur. The total outlay taken by the Planning Commission. o f that plan is Rs. 5,200 crores. The It it not merely a queation of the cost break-up of it is very interesting. at the development of traiuport by That w ill give the House some idea, road at to how much money is as to how in the villages also roads required and all that. Whatever are to be developed. Out o f Rs. 5,200' money is put—hundreds and crores crores, the national highways account of rupees—especially on thd railways for Rs. 980 crores; State highways, has got to be utilised. We will have Rs. 1,580 crores; major district roads, to plan as to how all the money can Rs. 1,360 crores; other district roads, be utilised so that ultimately when the Rs. 650 crores; and village roads, saturation point comes, these difficul Rs 630 crores. All this means that ties would not arise. Of course, we the proposed total outlay will involve shall be guided by experince in other stepping up the annual expenditure on parts of the world in this direction. road development from Rs. 80 crore* But that point, as I said, will arrive m 1961-62 to Rs. 440 crores in 1980-81. a quarter of a century later. If we Also, the annual expenditure on main start quarrelling about it, whether the tenance will increase from Rs. 30'& railways or the roads are needed, we crores in 1961-62 to Rs. 135 crores in defeat both the purposes of (he rail 1980-81. So, when roads are created, ways and road transport and for that they have also to be maintained in matter transportation as a whole. order that they should be in a fit con dition. All this would be done. That is exactly the scheme that we are* trying to fulfil. I can say that transport in this I shall refer, to a few more points country is developing through the and shall finish in a few minutes. second £lan, end the third Plan is Lastly, I refer to the subject which coming. I do not know how many has got laurels from everybody—a millions of tons of traffic will develop. pat on the back—and that is the sub They have got to be conveyed either ject of tourism. A most pleasant and by the rail or by the road; aviation a sort of rich dividend-earning item counts a little; inland water transport is tourism. My hon. colleague, Shri counts a little. The bullock-carts Raj Bahadur, made mention of it It account f&r far more than all these earned as much as Rs. 16 crores in modes, and so all these patterns have 1957 and we expect that it would earn got to be taken into consideration. I somewhere about Rs. 20 crores now. am quite sure that the very useful and But I am not satisfied with that. India concrete suggestions that my hon. is such an attractive country that friend Shri Masani has made would be people from everywhere want to come borne in mind. There should be no here and if it is only Rs. 20 crores competition either, and the House that is expected, there is one reason could rest assured that with the for it. I myself have been a tourist appointment of the Co-ordination in my life and I have been a tourist Committee and with perfect goodwill for a longer time in my life than as mi either side we bhall devise a scheme a Minister of the Central Government. by which there would be a perfed Therefore, the people should give me co-ordination and the competition wfl; some credit for knowing something always be healthy. There would be about tourism. I happened to be the no rivalry dither, so far as this is con President of the Association of Tourists cerned. As regards road transport, 1 for a number of years. Unfortunately think there is nothing else that I can I had to resigji because a Minister add except that this new Road Flan cannot be in two places# But what I will have to be considered. It envis am felling ,the House is this. It ou r ages a period at SO years, and it has tourism is not increasing, one reasoin bed* Teferre&'to by my colleague, for it is, tourism is a two-way trafflc- <9859 Dem ands APRIL *• 1050 /o r G rants 9890 [Shri S. K. Patil] You cannot expect everybody to they have done. I, .have heard come to your country while you hundreds of people talking very highly do not go anywhere else. Tourism of that department when they visit has got to Increase. No doubt we our country. This is the sixth foreign have got our difficulties, and we have exchange earner. no money, and also, if everybody starts moving about there will be no Shri Raj Bahadur: It is the fourth accommodation in the railways! But now. That is what I am told. it will solve another question. There -will be no rivalry between road trans Shri S. K. Patil: I am very glad it port and railways. There- will be has come to the fourth position. My enough traffic for both of them. For hon. colleague wants to run a little that, our people also should go out to faster He is younger and he can do other countries. It is very infectious. so! ‘Today they cannot go out with Rs. 75 or so, which is allowed. If it is possi Another advantage is, it secures ble for them to go out, they create friends for us, thousands and thou that kind of feeling among other sands of friends everywhere Do we people They talk about our country not reqirire this friendship m the pre and about places of attraction here to sent days m order to create a healthy the millions of people among whom and peaceful atmosphere everywhere, • they move and they are also activated to which we are wedded? This to see what India is like department does not only useful work, but a very beautiful and handsome If the foreign exchange earnings are work As the poet says, liot jumping up more, but only from Rs. 17 crores to Rs. 20 crores, the main “Handsome is what handsome reason is it is beyond our control. But . does” , it will not be beyond our control for and this is exactly what the tourist all the time We cannot shut out department does peoples of the world coming here and our people going to other countries, Thank you, Mr Depu ty-Speaker, for because they create the traffic for us. your indulgence It will be some kind of risk. If we spend about Rs. 10 crores of foreign Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Need I put any exchange and allow our people to go particular cut motion to the House? abroad, I am quite sure we can earn Shri T. B. Vittal Rao: Cut motions about Rs. 20 crores. But the question No. 1270 regarding need to revise the is, who takes the risk? So far as our policy in the matter of grants and tourist department is concerned, we .'loans to the State Road Transport are prepared to take that risk. That Services and No. 1464 regarding need risk is worthwhile taking, apart from to revise Dry Dock Project at Vishaka- the money, from the educative, social fcmtnam and execute it early. and psychological and every other aspect, which ax? more important than Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question. the foreign exchange. No concentra Is: tion is too much on this activity. It is a developing activity and we must “That the demand under the appreciate the excellent work the * head ‘Ministry of Transport and department has done. Communications’ be reduced by Surely, th$ department was con Rs. 100. (Need to revise the policy in the matter of grants and loans gratulated here yesterday. la my position as Minister, I hav% very little to the State Road Transport Ser to do with it, but,I compliment that vices)." •department for the excellent work The Lok Sabha S iv iitd . •9891 Demands CHAITRA 14, 1881 ( SAKA) for G ran tt Division No. 7] [ 16.20 hrs. Ayes Sanerjec, ShnS.M . Nair, Shri Vaaudevaa Reddy, Shri Nagi M ancha, Shri Nauihlr Nayai, Shri V. P. Singh. Shri L. A chaw Deo, ShtiP. K. Panaiekar, Shri Snrakar, 8 hn BIlH, Shri Mohammed Rajaadra Singh, Shri ■ Shn K » , SM Ptabhat Rao, Shri T . B. Vlttal Noes Abdur, Raihid, Bakhtht Karmaikar, Shn Patel, Suahn Maniben Adur, Shri Ktaoki, Shri Uadbar Patil, Shn S. K . Ambalam, 8 hri Subbiah Kadana, Shn C. M. Prabhakar, Shri Naval Anindh Sinha. Shn Kcihita, Shri Ral Bahadur. Sferi Aafaoappa, Shri Khan, Shri Sadath Aii Ram Kriahen, Shn B ik faU M s, Shri Khedkar, Dr. G. B. Raa Sana, Shri Bahmkl, Shri Khwaia, Shri Jamal Ram Suhhag Singh. Dr. Baaerfe, Shli P. B. Kriabna, Shri M. R. Ramaawamy, Shri K. S. Bbagavati, Shri Kweel, Shri B. N. Rane, Shn Bidad.Shn LadthiRam, Shn Reddy, Shri Viawanatha Bnrbal Singh, Shri T.adiman Sinch, Shn Roy, Shri Biabwanatfc Brnndra Singhji. Shn Lahiri, Sri Sahu, Shn Raaaahvar Boiooah, Shri P. C Laxmi Bat, Shnmati Samanta, Shn S. C. Bote, Shn Main, Shri N. B. Samanoinhar, Dr. Ghaadak, Shn Malvia. Shri K. B. Shah, Shri Maaahcadra Chandra Shaoker, Shri Mandal, Dr. Paahupati Shah, Shnmati Jayaben Chattovedi, Shri Maniyangadan, Shri Shanna, Pandit K. C. Cfcettur, Shri R. Raman athan Mathnr, Shri Haruh Chandra Siddananjappa, Shn DohnmUi, Shn K. G. Mehta, Shn J. R. Sinha, Shn B. P. Dabc, Shn Mulchand Mellette, Dr. Sinha, Shri Satya Narayan Dwivedl, Shn M. L. Miahra, Shri Bibhnti Sanavane, Shn Gandhi, Shn Pcrorc MUbta, Shri L. N. S«bnnwnyam, Shri T. Gandhi, Shri M M. Miira, Shri R. R. SumatPraaad, Shn Ooonder. Shri K. Periaawami Mohinddin, Shri Surra Pmad, Shri Haiarnavia, Shn Nair, Shri Kuttikriahnan Tantaa, Shri Rameahvar Harvani, Shri Aaaar Nanda, Shri Tanq, Shri A. M. Hanada, Shn Subodh Narayanaaamy, Shn R. Thirumala Rao, Shn Jain, Shn M. C. Oxa, Shn Tiwary, Pandit D. N. Jaagdt, Shri Padam Dev, Shn Upadhyaya, Shri Shiva DM Jena, Shri K. C. Pahadia, Shri Varma, Shn Ramringh Bhai Jhalaa Sinha, Shn Palaniyandy, Shri Waanik, Shri Balkrtohna Jogeadra Sea, Shri Palchoudhun, Shrimati Ila Wodeyar, Shn JyotlaU, Pandit J. P. Pander, Shri K. N. The motion was negatived. Shrimati Ur Palchoodhnri: I am Communications’ be reduced by sorry; by mistake, I pressed the wrong Rs. 100. (Weed to revivt Dry button. Dock Project at Vishakapatnam and execute it earljj) Mr. Depsty-Speaker: I wiU add 1 to the Noes and deduct 1 from the Ayes. The motion was negatived. The result of the division is: Ayes 14t Noes 98. Mr. Depaty-Speaker: I take it that Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question the other cut motions are withdrawn. is: 9 'That the demand under the All the ot^er cut motions were, by head *Mini«try of Transport and leave, withdrawn. 9893 D em a n d s VAPB3L Greats 9894 p a ffj fijnstin The question which will coma In course of pey- Js: ment during the year ending the Slst day o f March, I960) in respecA “That the respective sums not of 'Mercantile Marine’ *’. exceeding the amounts shown in the fourth column of the order Dm u m d No. 88—Lmax-BoaaRi ajk » paper, be granted to the Presi LlHHf BUTTS dent, to complete the sum^ neces That a sum not exceeding sary to defray the charges that Rs. 1,18,13,000 be granted to the will come in course a t payment President to complete the sum during the year ending the 81st necessary to defray the charges day a t March, 1960, in respect which will come in course of pay of the heads of demands, entered ment during the year ending the , in the second column thereof Slst day of March, 1960, in respect against Demands Nos. 85 io 94 of *Ught-Houses and T tight- and 131 to 13S relating to the ships***. Ministry of Transport and Com munications.*’ D e m a n d No. 89—Mctxohology T ta TOQtwro. “ That a sum not exceeding Demand No. 91—Aviation Rs. 60,81,60,000 be granted to the President to complete the sum ' That a sum not exceeding necessary to defray the charges Rs. 6,50,25,000 be granted to the which will come in course of pay- President to complete the sum ment during the year ending the necessary to defray the charges Slst day of March, i960, in respect which will come in course of pay of Indian Posts and Telegraphs ment during the year ending the Department (including working 31st day at March. I960, In respect expenses)"*. of ‘Aviation***. T^HSi wi) No. 87 —Msscantiu ; U a b r i PmtAND N o. 99 Cim tm i B o w Jmm That a 'sum apt exceeding “That * sum sot axcesdtng Re. 68,19,000 be granted to the Rs. 8,56^4,000 be granted to the Ffcwfatart to complete Che sum President to complete the mm m em m tr to defppy fiie charges necessary to defray A s charga* j 8fi$ Dem ands GHA2TRA 14, 1881 (SAKA) fo r G ra n * 9896 which will come in pourseof pay 31st day of March, i960, in respect ment during the year ending the at 'Capital Outlay on Civil Avia 31st day oJV March, I960, in respect tion’ " at *Centrml Road Fund’ ". D e m a n d N o 133—C a p i t a l O u t l a y o k XHauuro No. 93— C ommunications Poaas ( h k x d b d t o N i n o m H j o k w a y s ) T h a t a sum not exceeding Rs. 2,78,21,000 be granted to the That a sum not exceeding President to complete the sum Rs. 6,09,01,000 be granted to the necessary to defray the charges President to complete the sum which will come in course of pay necessary to defray the charges ment during the year ending the which will come in course at pay 31st dap of March, 1960, m respect ment during the year ending the o f *Capital Outlay on Ports” * 31st day of March, I960, in respect of ‘Communications (including D e m a n d N o 134—C a p i t a l O u t l a y o k National Highways)'” R o a d s D e m a n d No. 94—M iscellaneous 'That a sum not exceeding Rs 15,12,50,000 be granted to the DEPARTMENTS AMD OTHER Expxmx- President to complete the sum TURE xnfatR TBS MlNIBTRY OF Trans ch a rg e s p ort AND COMMUNICATIONS necessary to defray the which will come in course at pay- ' 'That a sum not exceeding ment during the year ending the Rs 1,56,91,000 be granted to the 31st day of March, I960, in respect President to complete the sum of ‘Capital Outlay on Roads” *. necessary to defray the charges which will come in course at pay D e m a n d N o . 1 3 5 — Ot h e r C a h u &t, ment dunng the year ending the O u t l a y or t h e M i n i s t r y or Ik u n * 3Ikt day of March, i960, in respect p o r t a n d C ommunications of ‘Miscellaneous Departments and That a sum not exceeding other Expenditure under the Rs 8,03,09,000 t e granted to the Ministry of Transport and Com President to complete the sum munications’ ” necessary to defray the charges which will come in course at pay D e m a n d N o 131—C a p i t a l O u t l a y o n ment during the year ending the I n d i a n P o s t s a n d T e l e o r a p h s ( n o t 31st day o f March, 1960, m respect m e t f r o m R e v e n u e ) at “Other Capital Outlay of the 'That a sum not exceeding Ministry at Transport and Com Rs 31,33,54,000 be granted to the munications’ ” President to complete the sum necessary to defray the charges . which will come in course of pay M i n i s t r y o p L a b o u r a n d E m p l o y m e n t ment during the year ending the Mr. Deputy-8peak*r: The House 31st day of March, 1960, in respect will now take up discussion an of ‘Capital Outlay on Indian Posts Demands Nos 67 to 69 and 127 relat and Telegraphs (not met from ing to the Ministry of Labour and Revenue)’ ” Employment, for whi& six hours have been allotted D e m a n d N o . 1 3 2 —C a p i t a l O u t l a y o h C i v i l A v i a t i o n Hon. Members desirous of moving cut motions may hand over at the 'That a sum not exceeding Table within 15 minutes the nuttbtts Rs. 3^7,16,000 be granted to the of ttie selected cut motions. I shall President to complete the sum treat them as moved, if, the members wwiwssMj to defray the charges in whose pamea those cut yfcfch will come In course a t pay- stand are present in the House and « s s t during $e ^ ending the the motions are otherwise in ordac. 9097 Demattd« APStlL & 1950 fa r G rants 939$ DincAitp No. 67 —Ministry of Labour ment during the year ending the AMD EMPLOYMENT 31st day of March, 1960, in respect * 4 of 'Capital Outlay at the Minis* Mr. Dep«ty-8pmker:Motion moved: try of Labour and Brtiploymen? M. ••nut a sum not exceeding The Minister of U bm and Em Rs. 18^39,000 be granted to the ployment and Flamming (Shri President to complete the sum Nanda): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, necessary to defray the charges with your permission, I shall initiate which will come in course of pay the discussion on the Demands in ment during'the year ending flit respect of the Ministry of Labour and 31st day of March, 1960, in respect Employment with a few observations. of ‘Ministry of Labour and • I wish to place in the forefront of Employment’ r the discussion some principal prob lems and issues relating to the policy D o m a n d No. 68—C h i e f I n s p e c t o r o f and administration, in the sphere of M im e s labour My object is that ‘ 1 should be Mr. Depaty-Speaker:Motion moved: in a position to derive the utmost benefit from this discussion with “Ifcat a stun not exceeding regard to the evaluation of our work, Rs. 19,74,000 be granted to the and in order to make such adjust President to complete the sum ments and improvements' as may be necessary to defray the charges called for. It is very important that which .will come in course of pay a s we proceed with this discussion we ment during the year ending the should be clear in our minds about 31st day of March, 1960, in respect our basic goals about the direction in at *Chief Inspector of Mines’ ” . which we want to advance, and our limitations. Then alone will we be able to a ssess the work of the Minis D e m a n d No. 69—M iscellaneous try properly and also the value of D e p a r t m e n t s a n d o t h e r E x p e n d i any suggestions and any criticism that t u r e u n d e r t h e M i n i s t r y o f L a b o u r may be made in the course of this a n d E m p l o y m e n t discussion. Mr. Depaty-Speaker:Motion moved: "That a sum not exceeding Before I take up specific matters I Rs. 9,64,92,000 be granted to the want to bring to the notice of the President to complete the sum House a few general points. An im necessary to defray the charges pression is being created as if the which will come in course of pay labour laws and the things that are ment during the year ending the being done for the working class are 31st day of March, 1960, in respect placing such heavy burdens on indus of Miscellaneous Departments and try that they are hampering its other Expenditure under the progress and even coming in the way of the economic development of the Ministry of Labour and Employ country. Such views are being ex ment’ pressed by various industrialist friends and a section of the press on D e m a n d No. 127— C a p i t a l O u t l a y or various occasions. I have closely t h e M z n x s t M ’ o f L a b o u r a n d examined this matter ahd I think E m p l o y m e n t there ir no justification for this kind Mr. DepsAjr-8peaker: Motion moved: • of public agitation. I-say this because it might engender resentment. After m»at a sum not exceeding all, it is the workers who are very Rs. 3,20,000 JSe granted to the much the builders of the economy of President £0 complete the sjpn this country and we must do uecessary* to defray thf charges everything to enlist their support, and which will come in course of pay not alienate them. Demand* CHATFRA 14, 1881 (SAKA) f « r Granta 99°o- On the other hand, from the matter which should engage our workers' platform we often hear that attention fully. I must acknowledge the workers are still being exploited, that in thi£ respect we cannot give they are faring badly and that they a very satisfactory account of our are not having a proper dure in the selves; the plans have not f&red very fruits of progress; that is their com well in this matter. Hon. Members, plaint. Regarding this too I wish to have often pointed out the rising say that there may be grievances here figures on-the Live Register. It is are there, there may ^e causes for true that the number of persons who __ discontent, but on the whole the are not able to find employment is ‘working class is not losing ground; I rising. It i4 quite true. Here I will think it is gaining ground. This is have to give certain figures. I will the position. try to give significant figures in order to mak£ the statements more We must understand the difficulties meaningful. The Live Register o f the situation. Our country has a figures have been increasing at the very low national income. What is rate of an annual rise of 16*7 per happening today is what happens in cent during the last six years. In the the case of a big family with, a small last year the rise was 27'2 per cent; income. Further, it is also a develop there is an acceleration there. Other ing country which means that it is information is also leading or point trying to create improvement for the ing to the same direction—our calcu future, conditions in which we may lations of employment in the Plan,-*- have a better life for the future in the backlog in the beginning of the various directions. But the process is Second Plan and what we expect exacting. It imposes stresses and would be the achievement during this strains, it calls for sacrifices, and it is period and consequently what is that period through which we are going to be the backlog at the end o f' passing. the Plan. Therefore, when we proceed with the discussion of the various aspects 16.25 hrs. of labour policy, let us keep this rSmr Barman in the Chair] background in our minds. These are early stages of development and those The position, as it appears, is that it difficulties are inevitable. While the is very likely that the backlog of 5‘3 working class has to bear its share of million will have become 7-3. million' sacrifices, this should be on an equit at the end of the Second Plan. That able basis. is the position. It has -somewhat worsened. But does it mean that no Now I shall indicate some of the employment is being created? No. I questions of major importance which have material to show that employ will necessarily engage the minds of ment is increasing. It has been the hon. Members. The most impor increasing over six years at a fair tant thing from the point of view of rate. We have not got complete infor the worker, something which is of mation, full statistics about employ supreme concern to him, is his level ment in all fields, but whatever of living, standard of living, his employment figures we*have regarding economic position.' The most impor factories, mines, plantations, persons tant ingredients of this are <«nploy- employed by Government, railways, ment, earnings, social security and tc. all that put together, the position housing. I have placed employment s that employment between 1947 and first j attach the greatest importance 1957 rose at the average annual rate to this. After all, if a person is not of 2-3 per cent employed, the standard o f living has bo meaning at all tor him and his We have also figures ttf show that •ecurity is nil.. Therefore, this is * with regard to vacancies, notified to- •9901 Dem ands APRIL -4, 1999 for Grant* 9903 [Shri Nanda] 41m employment exchange^ the aver- acoount that at a particular timat with existing level of t employment •age rate of increase is 7*8 per eent ■and that at placements 8*3 per cent sometimes we are faced with trouble. between 1964 and 1968. These figures Dislocation takes place. Closures -ar* significant It means that every occur, That Is a matter of very consi year there is an increase In the derable concern to us and hon. Mem number of persons who are being bers have shows very considerable asked for, for* whom there is a interest in the? question of closures. I ■demand for employment. In the last have calculated that the number of man-days lost on account of closures 'year this rate has been 22*8 per eent so d 21 per cent, that is, a very consi- in one industry, i.e., the textile, in si ■derable acceleration in thtf rate of single year has been more than all demand and the number of vacancies man-days lost on account of strikes and lock-outs in that year. Therefore 4hat are being created. But all these vacancies constitute just about 15 per it is important cent of the number of job seekers registered every year. An Hen. Member: Who is respon sible? 1 • Then the question arista: why Is it that unemployment is inert '.sing? Shri Nanda: I am coming to it as to The position is very simple. In the who is responsible. first place, population is increasing. We had an average annual rate of Now, this happened in a number at increase of 1*25 per cent in 1951, and industries, textile, manganese, engi against that in the Second Plan we neering, jute and a few other indus are visualizing a figure of 1*9 per tries, may be. The factors responsi cent What a big difference it makes. ble for it are, firstly, the impact of So, in spite of all the investments the forces of the international market that we make, in spite of all the Well, we can trace the responsibility. efforts, the rate at which we create If there is not enough foreign ex sew opportunities for employment change, we do not get industrial raw flails short or lags behind, the demand materials and some sections of the -on these opportunities that is rising. engineering industry suffer. If the After all, the number of persons demand for our things slackens, if we -within the working force who are cannot sell away our textiles and employed in industry and occupations other things, our own employment ■of this kind are between 4 and 5 per gets depressed on that account Our cent Therefore, there is a large economy is not closed. TTaerefow section of people who have not got there are repercussions of the changes this kind of employment Opportuni in the international position which ties in other directions are very we have to face. That is one factor. limited. *More o f them have to be absorbed in industry and occupations of that kind. This is the position so Another factor in the causation of far as employment is concerned and I these closures is the position of the believe that the remedy is only internal economy. Recently them "bigger plans. There is no other was a decline in our agricultural remedy. We must have bigger invest- * production. We did not have enough meats. food. The result was that Ha impact fell on the demand for doth. Because of the purchasing power of the mast Another Aspect o f emjjJoyment is, of the people, even of the middle ■whatever may be the rate o f espan- class, being less on that account and •sion and the difficulties on that because of the hi^feer*prices of 4ood> 9903 Demand* CHAITRA 14, 18&1 (SAKA) Jor Grant* 99 that did not leave enough margin lor and expanded. There is a programme the demand for other products. So, for that. But one feature o f our that iB how the whole economy is operations in this field does create a interdependent and that is how the sense of a little satisfaction. In importance of food and agricultural several projects because they were production arises. That is the second coming to a close large numbers were factor. to be retrenched. It was creating serious problems. There was unrest. Then the third factor of responsi Hon. Members here raised several bility about which my hon. friend questions about that) about DVC and reminded me is something which is a number of other places. I may not internationally made, nor is it inform the hon. Members that in this nature made but it is man made. matter our experience has been fairly That is mismanagement. There are satisfactory. 17,400 persons engaged establishments which are closed, in the Ordnance Factories, DVC which need not have been closed. Hirakud, Kaisers and in the steel This happens because there was mis industry have been taken from one management at a certain time and it place and given employmen* in was not taken care of early enough. another place with the minimum of Therefore those establishments had to delay. This has created a sense of close down, leading to considerable relief and satisfaction. A certain hardships and unemployment for number still remains but about 77 per large numbers of people. This matter cerjj, have already been employed. came up before the Indian Labour For the rest efforts are being made to Conference at the last session and we deal with the residue of the problem. took counsel together. Certain direc I have said something about the tions were given. Certain recommen kind of problems that we are faci><£ dations were made. Some of them in the matter of employment. There have been acted upon. In the are one or two things more. We have textiles, particularly, the Textile now decided to improve the working Inquiry Committee which was set up or the effectiveness of the employ for this purpose made some recom ment exchanges in one particular mendations. Practically all of them direction. Many of the employers in Government have accepted except a the private sector were not co-operat few. So, some action is being taken ing. They were not notifying the in this direction. At any rate, there vacancies. Although we have this should be no idle capacity, there orgapisation, it is not being made use should be no idle manpower because of. Although we do not like compul somebody is not attending to his duties sion—we want things to proceed as properly. Mismanagement is there much as possible on a voluntary fore a factor in creating this un basis—we- could not help it and we employment and these closures. I have decided to bring in legislation s have referred to this for the reason for the purpose of compulsory noti * that I want to put before hon. fication of vacancies. Members the problems with which we have to deal. We may have dealt We have a certain amount of with them to some extent. We have statistical apparatus and basis for the to do more about these things. calculation of employment and un employment. We have to improve it Then the third aspect of the prob One very gratifying feature is the lem of employment Is the question of * development of our employment co-ordination and matching of market information which, I hqpe in demand and supply. This brings into the course of not top long 9 time, will the picture our employment ex enable us to** have a m fairly accurate changes. T he number has been assessment of the changes that are increasing. They have to be enlarged taking p&ce in the requirements at ft LSD -e.^. ‘ b*iA an& AMUL 4, 1659 for Onmtl 990$ [Skri Nanda] the labour force, in different areas, India consumer price index was an and occupations and for different average of 17-3 per cent* and, conse skills etc. Our training programmes quently, the index of real wages have also been accelerated. After all, shows a change of less than 1 per the information that we get from the cent. Since 1939 the real wages have employment exchanges shows as to increased by about 8 per cent It where the excesses are and where the has not been a very big change when shortages are Then we have to we consider 1939. That was a period regulate our training programme in when we had no control over our order to bring about some kind of economic life. After that, the coun harmony between the demand and try took its destiny int37 Demand* CHAITRA i4, 1861 ISAKA) for Grant* 9908 production on account o f what has this Our idea is that we should try bden paid to labour has not been a to securfc for the working classes an factor in' hindering the economy of assured minimum level as soon as the country m any way This is the possible The Indian Labour Confer position ence gave a concrete content to that idea The idea originated with the A question will be asked, the Fair Wage Committee workers say, we have not got enough It must be realised that it may be In one sense, it is so Then Indian that the time is not ripe for a full Labour Conference decided on a cer enforcement of that minimum level tain basis for the purpose of a mini because of the economic conditions mum wage It can still be said that and limitations But, there is a value the wages that are now being obtain m what has been decided It serves ed by the working classes have not as a guide It will at least have reached that level That is true, bv established a priority m relation to and large What has to be done other claims This has the highest about it 7 What is our wage policy 7 priority, higher than any other claim. That question has been raised and That is the value of what has been will arise again I will attempt to decided by the Indian Labour Con answer that, again, bneflv ference If thfe meaning of the question is There is the question of differen- ■ have we got any kind of mechanical tials We want that the disparities of formula which automatically applies income m the community in general to every situation and produces a should be reduced and narrowed result that this will be the increase, down That must apply to the work we have not got any such formula ing classes inter se The differentials We have evolved certain principle* should be suitable, not excessive over and these principles have developed this period, whatever policies have in the course of years There is no been followed by the courts and tribu rigid basis, but certain basic consi nals have led to a considerable derations and principles have narrowing down of these disparities developed These have been em That is, people lower down have bodied in several reports, the Report benefited more People who are of the Fair Wage Committee, the First backward have been given preferen Five Year Plan the Second Five tial consideration, so that the result Year Plan, in the proceedings of the is, unreasonable differences have been various tripartite bodies, particularly gradually bridged We have xnade^ the Indian Labour Conference and in considerable progress in standardisa the numerous series of awards These tion, that is, as between various occu principles which have emerged are pations, as between vanous industries being formulated, are being studied m different places This is one direc and examined In order to strengthen tion of advance , this process, in order that we may have in our possession the help of There is one matter I want to proper norms, a proper basis for wage place before hon «Members regarding filiation, a steering group has been this question of wage. It is an im set up This is on a tripartite basis portant matter I request them to Studies are in progress Some pro • give full thought to this and to apply gress has been made It is a difficult their mind to it Hie workers com subject I believe in course o f time, plain from every platform—all the these studies will throw a good deal Central organisation* of Labour agree of'light on this very complicated ijegardmg them—they all say the same subject The basic aim of our wage thing—tfiat wages t a i net adequate »policy has . heen stated again aad and much more should be done in •gain I draot want to repeat all this respect Previously, there WB 990> Demands APRIL 4,1950 for Grant* [8hii Nanda] <* this question of 25 per cent rise all workers are exposed j to various over. With great humility, I urged hazards. Of course, which' has been last time that it was a, wrong done may not be considered quite approach, that it is not a rational adequate but considering the stage of approach to ask for a uniform rise in development of the country it cannot all industries. I am very glad that also be considered negligible. The some heed has been paid to my question of Provident Fund for the request and the approach has become workers has been discussed again and more elastic. again. The proposal to increase the rate and to extend it to units with What is it that is coming in the way twenty or so is being considered. We of a better deal for the workers. One are working at it and I hope we mil 'thing, I have already mentioned i.e. succeed. It may be a matter of time. uneconomic units. They depress the Next Sir, I would refer to another standard. That question has to be matter, namely, the question of dealt with from the workers' point of Industrial housing. This is another view, because they drag down the field which is one of the most impor whole average. There is the question tant elements in raising the level of of low productivity. This matter, I living of the working class. Hon. wih deal with later on. The other Members of the House are aware important considerations which hold that we had a bad heritage. We have back the working classes are fear of been making efforts to provide more inflation and the needs of investment. houses for the working class. But, want more investment for the we have to consider this point. If the sake of the workers, for the sake of results are no very encouraging, we a larger volume of employment. If have to consider the condition of the inflationary pressures increase, prices country as a whole. There are slums rise and any gain that the workers all over the country and there have secure is neutralised. Every tribunal been various difficulties in the matter has considered this aspect. What has of materials and other sources. But, to be done about it? as the House is aware, we are making some headway. This matter was dis Sir, the retained profits vary from cussed in the recent Indian Labour industry to industry. In some cases, Conference. It was decided that in it is 40 per cent. In some cases it is each State the Labour Minister 50 per cent and it may be even 60 should invite employers to discu«s ■ per cent Certain amount is being these matters with them so that they ploughed back and from the balance may know how much has been done th* dividends and other claims are by each employer and there should bong met. Now the question is: Why be a reasonable Obligation placed on . cannot the worker himself be a parti everv employer to build more houses * cipant in this process of investment for the workers. I am receiving and savings. If the workers are pre reports that this is being attended to. pared to offer that a part of the However, in spite of the fact that increase which tHfcy may secure in certain resources are made available wages and bonus will be available for in the Plan, it is regrettable that IfVen such investment, they will become that amount is not being fully entitled to much more favourable •use of. considerations and that barriers will bt lifted. That is only a line of 16J54 hrs. thought. 1* do 'not wish to so into fJOt DKrmr*Sfauaa fn the Choir] the details abo^ this. t Sir, 1 have dealt with two at the, About social security, we have ■tajor matters concertina tbe pettcy nutde some advance irf this year. The end administration af«££bour. tt it tiR i Demands CHAITRA 14, 1981 ( SAKA) for Grant* 9912 t not enough if the worker has a little Shri 8 . M.'BanerJee(Kanpur): T^ie non wage* has to have a proper speech of the hon. Minister may be place in the whole productive system. circulated to hon. Members. Has he got the sensation of partner ship and the feeling that he is not a Mr. Depaty-Speaker: The speech mere wage earner all the time? So, that the hon. Minister has made just this scheme, or this experiment o f now will be circulated to hon. Mem Workers' participation in management bers. was evolved. Well, there has been • some response and I may say that Shri Mohammed Ellas (Howrah): some units have accepted it and some Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, the hon. more units are coming in, which is Labour Minister has made a very wel all very gratifying. But, at the same coming spiech. He has made very time, what I feel is that the apprecia valuable points with regard to the tion of this need has not become wide- labour relations in this country. 1 do s p r e a d . The workers have to contri not agree with all the points made by bute their share in the growth of the the hon. Minister. I have got certain nation’s economy senye while it mar important points which I want to take some time to develop workers’ mention. I want to prove with these participation in the fuller it is very points how the labour policy of the important for the efficiency and present Government has failed in proper working of any industry that many respects. * the worker should at least have infor mation as to what is happening in the Mr. Depaty-Speaker: The House industry. The management should will have the benefit of hearing those share with workers information about points on Monday. the working of the industry. This is the minimum programme which Shri BraJ Raj Singh: We may sit should be adopted on a very large a little while. scale immediately. But all these things cannot be done effectively un Mr. Depaty-Speaker: This was put less the workers are educated proper to the House and the House has not ly and have good and strong trade agreed. So, the House will now stand unions. I know that these maters are adjourned till Eleven of the Clock exercising the minds of hon. Members on Monday. and I will have occasion to say as to how to improve our whole system of 17 hrs. industrial relations. I shall have occasion to speak about the code of The Lok Sab ha then adjourned till discipline. I shall not take more time Eleven of the Clock on Monday, April of the Bouse at this stage. 6, 1959/Chaitra 16, 1881 (Saka). 9913 DAILY [Saturday, Apnt 4, i9S9l^tmtra 14, 18S1 (Saka)] C o l u m n s COILVh PAPER LAID ON THE LEAVE OF ABSENCE—conid T A B L E 9743 (11) Shri Jogendra Seri Mandi A copy of the Report of Ganga (12) Shri jogendra Nath Hazarika, Brahmaputra water Trans port Board for the year 1958 D E M A N D S F O R G R A N T S 9745— 991* PETITION PRESENTED 9744 (i) Further discussion on the Shn N R Muntsamy presented Demands for Grants m res* a petiron signed by a peti pect of the Ministry of tioner regarding excisc duty Transport and Communica on oil produced by Puro tions conclude 1 The De (Wooden) Chekkus mands were voted in full (i0 Discus* on on Demands for LEAVE OF ABSENCb . . 9744~45 Grants in respect of the Ministry of Labour and The following members were Employment commenced granted leave o f absence from life* sTltttIjfS" i«r life." jKXXfiRt1 The discussion was not con cluded Lo k Sabha AGENDA TOR MONDAY, (1) Shn Chowkhamoon Gohain APRIL 6, I9S9/CHAITRA (2) Shn Chandramam Kale 16,1881 (SAKA)- 3) D r K B M enon 4) Shri Chapalakanta Bhatta- Further discussion on De charyya mands for Grants in respect (5) Shri Chheda Lai Gupta of the Ministry of Labour (6) Shri Btshanchandar Seth and Employment, and dis (7) Sardar Baldcv Singh cussion on Demands for (8) Shnman Mafida Ahmed Grams in rcipect of the (9) Maulana A bdur Rahman Ministry of i ood and Agri (10) Kunwarani Vijaya Ra)e culture { ts* =■—-----ars Printed at Tax Paruam entahy W n ro o r the Government o r I n d ia P r e s s , New D elhi, and pubusbed by the Lok Sabha Secretariat under rules 378 and 3 8 2 o r t h e R u l e s o r Procedure and Conduct o r Business in Lok Sabha (F it t h E d it io n )