JENNIFER SWIDERSKI, EQUITY COUNCILOR AND CHAIR OF EQUITY’S MEMBER EDUCATION COMMITTEE: We have a record number of participants today with nearly 2,000 Equity members registered to attend. And many of you have shared questions when you registered, and those questions have shaped our agenda today. We have a very full agenda, so I want to share it with you as we get started.

We are going to begin with a discussion with Equity's audition manager, Marisa Valero, about how Equity's guidelines on auditions, including our guidelines about required calls, have adjusted to our current reality. After that we're going to welcome a panel of casting directors from the Casting Society of America for a two-part discussion: first with more process- oriented questions about how self-taped auditions work, and then with a more philosophical discussion on the topic.

All of the questions we're asking our panel today come from those you submitted over the past two weeks. We will not be taking live questions during this seminar, but there were a number of questions that came in in a more technical nature about how to create a self tape – what equipment to use, how to reduce files, how to get the video from your phone or your computer to the casting directors – and these questions came in at all levels from very beginner (like me) community to the more advanced.

Because we wouldn't be able to cover these sufficiently and have time for the rest of the program we are going to offer a separate webinar just on how to create a self tape, with a more brass-tacks approach, and we'll send the registration link to you tomorrow. So now I'm going to turn the floor back over to David and Marisa to move on with our discussion.

DAVID LEVY (EQUITY’S MEMBER EDUCATION MANAGER): Thank you so much, Jen! And just because I didn't get to introduce you properly: Jennifer is the chair of the Member Education Committee for Actors' Equity. She is an Eastern Chorus Councilor, which means that she is a volunteer. She is a working actor just like all of you, and she gives her time to make sure that Equity can work for our members. And so we're very appreciative of the work that Jen and all of our volunteers do to make this union run. All right, thanks, Jen!

So first let me just clarify what we're talking about here: self-tape auditions have been around for a while, but until recently they've been supplemental to our required calls. So, Marisa, to start us off, before this pandemic started were there Equity rules about self-taping?

MARISA VALERO (EQUITY AUDITIONS MANAGER): Yes there were actually. Previously, during that time, self tapes could only be requested by an employer once they had actually fulfilled their contractual, in-person requirements for auditions.

DAVID: So now that they're a necessity, I know that our committees and our Council have been hard work at creating new guidelines about how we can use self tapes to fulfill contractually required calls. So can you tell us a little bit about the new guidelines that we do have?

MARISA: For Equity Principal Auditions, employers may solicit video submissions in lieu of holding their required EPAs. There are some provisions so the video submission request will meet their contractual requirements, since we can't do live auditions right now.

The requirements would be: a notice requesting those video submissions must be posted to Equity for posting on the member portal.

So we should receive a notice to let you know that the theater is requesting submissions.

DAVID: And will that show up in the same place that regular EPA notices would appear?

MARISA: It's a little bit different. They will not show up under auditions. It'll show up under submissions. So when you go to the member portal, instead of pushing, you know, when you go to look at Casting Call, you're going to look under Submissions instead of Auditions.

So these video submissions will only be seen by those with casting authority for that employer. Once those submissions have been viewed and they've started to call back who they want to see those tape submissions will be destroyed. That is the understanding that we have with employers for this.

And these video submissions are only to be used for casting purposes and will not be utilized or distributed for any purpose. So they can't – no publicity, no marketing, anything like that. They are only to be used for the purposes of casting.

And because of this – so the employers agree that they will call back at least five self- submitted members or one self-submitted member – this should say member, by the way, we wrote "actor" but it is actually – it is Equity members.

Five self-submitted members or one self-submitted actor per available role so if you're in a show and it's a two-hander, they're calling back five people, five members. If it's a season and there's 35 rolls available in that season then they need to call back at least 35 members so whichever is greater and these callbacks will be held in person when it is safe to do so.

Now please note that these the allowance for video submissions in lieu of these in-person EPAs are being allowed strictly in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and they are not precedent setting going forward.

So this is only being allowed in this case.

We will return to live auditions, in-person auditions, when it is safe to do so.

As far as Equity Chorus Calls (ECCs), as everyone can imagine that's a little bit of a trickier subject when it comes to video submissions, so ACCA is currently in discussions about potential requirements for employers soliciting video submissions in lieu of in-person ECCS. I know that the folks on the ACCA are working very hard to come up with something that works and is fair for everyone, so that's just gonna take a little bit more time.

DAVID: For anyone not familiar the ACCA is the Advisory Committee on Chorus Affairs, which is the Equity committee of, again, volunteer members – Councilors and members you know, rank-and-file members we call them, members who are not elected, who come together to debate and make decisions about these things. They vote on them, and that's how rules get made.

Okay. So, thank you for that. So my next question I maybe just answered, but how do these new guidelines get made? How do they get decided? Who's involved?

MARISA: Sure! So these guidelines were created by members of our Equity Principal Audition or EPA committee, again like David just said, it's made up of councilors and rank-and-file members that all meet to discuss any and all issues and policies regarding Equity principal auditions.

DAVID: Okay, and we've said that they're temporary and that they're only for now, they're not going to be a new option to replace in-person auditions when in-person auditions are safe again.

Are there limits on how much a member can be asked to put on tape?

MARISA: They should be – the amount of the self tape should be for the amount of time specified in the notice. So, many of our agreements have time limits or time requirements on how long enough an audition should be.

For example, the LORT agreement says up to three minutes so, if you know a LORT theater's requesting five minutes, you know in our notice – we as audition staff would automatically question that because the agreement says up to three. And so this is the same thing for video submissions that are replacing these EPAs. So again when we review these notices when we receive them, we're making sure that whatever you're being asked to prepare is appropriate. And if you're getting something that is – you feel is outside of that, please contact Equity if you're being asked for something other than that at your first audition.

Now callbacks are a little different. Those aren't mandated in the contract. But if it's your first video submission then you're being asked something that's other than what's on the notice or outside of what's in the agreement, please contact Equity and let us know.

DAVID: And on the flip side, if someone submits more than what's asked for, I assume that the employer is under no obligation to watch beyond the required minutes.

Are there rules – so are there rules around callbacks, or are callbacks at this point strictly when we're allowed to do them in person?

MARISA: Right. So yeah, so they are meant to be live, live callbacks when it's safe to do so. There are a few theatres that have requested to do callbacks via like a live video conference like Zoom, like we're doing right now and those are kind of being considered on a case-by-case basis. It's not something that's automatically okay.

DAVID: Got it. And are there – is there like an equivalent to what the monitors do in in-person auditions for this kind of audition?

MARISA: That's tricky – just ...not really?

Our monitors are our paid Equity staff, so they are – you know, they will return when live auditions resume.

DAVID: Are Equity videos being watched in priority over videos from non-union members?

MARISA: They absolutely should be. Equity member auditions should have priority, and have to be viewed before any submissions from any non-Equity members. It's just the same as if they would have priority at an EPA or ECC to be seen.

DAVID: So there's a certain number that they have to watch.

MARISA: Yes, and you know, because of the callback rules that I just mentioned, like they have to call back a certain number, it's you know – they should be looking at those first, and that is the requirement, the understanding that we have with our employers.

DAVID: We'll ask this again when we talk to the casting directors but is there any kind of understanding about what order they're watching the Equity submissions in?

MARISA: Not necessarily. I would imagine it's – I mean I think casting would be able to speak more to that, I would imagine.

DAVID: There's no rule around that.

MARISA: No, no, no. Yeah it's, I would imagine it's a first-come, like it would be for an EPA.

DAVID: Now in this era of casting via video submission we get a lot of questions about whether or not location matters. Is there such a thing as a preference for local actors in this process? And do theaters have to let us know if that's something that they're considering?

MARISA: They're not required to let us know, but I will say that in the notices that we have been receiving, or the discussions that we've been having with theaters, that they've been very forthcoming about if they're seeking to cast locally. When a theatre is – you know, they let us know that they want to do that. If they are looking to specifically cast locally, we will generally include language in the notice stating something along the lines of, local talent especially encouraged to submit. You know, this does not by any means exclude non-local actors for submitting.

You should submit for anything you feel right for, and that's your right to do so. But that's just to kind of give you an inkling of what maybe the theater's mindset is.

DAVID: And are there any rules around how much time someone should be allowed to prepare or rehearse or put together their video like how much time between when a notice gets posted and when the deadline for submission is?

MARISA: Right. So there is not a specific rule around a rehearsal time for that. The requirement is that they have to submit that notice within the timeline that's specified in their agreement, as they would for any other EPA notice. For most of our agreements that's two weeks. So if they're posting because it's meant to replace that required EPA, they're still required to submit that within that timeline. So for most of our agreements that's two weeks. There are a few that are three weeks.

DAVID: From a rules perspective, are there any rules that protect people who may be less comfortable or less capable with the technology involved?

MARISA: Yeah, not necessarily. That's a very tricky thing to – you know, different people have different resources and I think – yeah the casting directors would probably be in a better situation to say what is what they're looking for, what is needed. Unfortunately, we don't have a specific policy around that.

DAVID: Sure. Now, you mentioned before that the appropriate casting personnel are the ones who are supposed to watch the videos, and the only people who get access to the videos, and I imagine that's a little bit different from contract to contract but who are those people?

MARISA: Again, it is people with casting authority, so you know, depending on what agreement that is that could mean you know the musical director for a singing audition that needs to watch it. That could be the artistic director, the producer, the director... It could be a casting director who has casting authority for that specific theater.

But yeah, it would vary, but only those with casting authority should be watching those tapes.

DAVID: And is there a way to find out from call to call who the people are for that particular audition?

MARISA: We try to put that on the personnel listing on the notice, so you can see who is casting, you know, like we would for an EPA. Who the artistic director is, who the personnel are.

DAVID: Great. Do we as Equity have any oversight to ensure that the videos are actually getting watched?

MARISA: You know, as much as I would love to be in every living room and every office when they're watching these, that's not really possible.

We do, again, we do have a certain – we are requiring a certain number of callbacks to be given to Equity members, and so you know they're going to have – in order to call back the right people, they're going to have to watch those tapes, so I think most people would say it's in their best interest, because they want to cast shows.

And they have to call back a certain number of Equity members, so I think that that kind of helps alleviate that.

DAVID: And I know you already said this, but I think it's worth repeating that there are protections in place that these videos are only for use in casting, that they're supposed to be destroyed after the casting process is done, but a question came in about what protections are in place to ensure that these likenesses won't be used for any other purposes.

MARISA: We're really relying on members to let us know if if they're seeing that – those videos out there. Like I said there are – that's something that they should report immediately to Equity. Again, as much as I would love to be in every artistic director or casting director's room with them as these tapes are being viewed and utilized, we're really relying on the members to be vigilant about letting us know if they see something that's not right.

DAVID: And if someone were to want to contact Equity about something like this, would they email auditions? Would they get in touch with the business rep for that theatre?

MARISA: They should – they can start with auditions, and the audition staff will get in touch with the appropriate business rep. They also can go directly to the business rep.

If you want to get in touch with the business rep, it's all on the member portal, and you can look by region – by, you know, Western, Central or Eastern region and see who the business rep is for that specific geographical area and get directly in touch with them.

Or you can also contact auditions. For auditions in the western region – that's my area – you can contact [email protected]; for central it's [email protected]; and then for anything in the eastern region it's [email protected].

DAVID: Do we know yet when in-person auditions will be allowed again, and what might be different about them when they are allowed in order to keep actors and the casting personnel safe?

MARISA: You know, there was press about it recently. Members may have already heard about the four key points, considerations outlined by Dr. Michaels that need to be addressed before it's safe for members to work. And those same criteria are gonna be addressed before in person auditions could resume as well.

And that may mean modifying what an audition space looks like – modifying, you know, what an audition waiting room looks like.

It's very tough to know what the specifics of that will be as this pandemic progresses, and I think it's worth noting that different theaters, different geographical areas, may meet those conditions before others so it's not necessarily that there's going to be one day when suddenly auditions are allowed again. It may be that auditions at this location or that location or this theater or that theater open up before everything else.

For sure. It's definitely going to be a process.

And if anyone hasn't seen them, yet you can go to the member portal, right on the home page there's a coronavirus update that has both sort of the short version of what Dr. Michaels has reported to us so far and then a link to his more formal memo that outlines where he's at in the process. And I think it's worth reading those.

And there'll be more information in the weeks to come too.

DAVID: Are companies allowed to hold auditions now if they're not sure yet how or when they'll be able to move forward with a project?

MARISA: Yes. The short answer is yes, they can. They can still hold auditions for productions with tentative dates. There are several agreements that would require additional auditions depending on how far out that first rehearsal date becomes. I'll give an example: a Production Agreement is a great example. If from the time they have had their auditions that more than 26 weeks elapsed before the rehearsal starts, then they would need to do another round of auditions. They would need to do that audition process all over again.

DAVID: I know we're not issuing contracts right now until it's safe to actually do the things that the contract says, so if someone has a great audition, and the company wants to cast them, is there anything shy of a contract that formalizes that relationship? Or is it really like until we're ready for a contract it's all sort of on good faith and best wishes?

MARISA: I feel like I'm probably not the best person to ask that question. I feel like that might be a – you know if a member did receive an offer and had a question like that, they would want to get in touch with a business representative for that. That's probably a more appropriate place to go for that.

DAVID: All right one last question: if – I know there's lots of different ways that people like to submit their videos, and we'll hear from the casting directors how they like to receive them, but if someone puts their audition up on YouTube as a public video does that break any Equity rules? And does it matter if their YouTube channel is monetized, like if there are ads on it?

MARISA: To the best of my knowledge no. You know the member recorded that tape you're submitting it voluntarily. My understanding is that's kind of yours to do with what you like, because it's, you know, a video and being monetized you may want to check with if you're, you know, a SAG-AFTRA member or actually if you're a member you still want to check with SAG-AFTRA because they're our sister union. So that might be a good place to check on that, but to my knowledge as far as Equity rules, no.

DAVID: I believe that's all the questions that we had prepared to talk about. Is there anything that you want to make sure we talk about before we move on to the other part of our panel?

MARISA: Just that I hope everybody stay safe out there. I'm glad that – you know, I'm glad that auditions can still be happening in the meantime, and that we can still move forward.

The show will go on and so we're operating as such, but everybody, be safe out there. Take care.

DAVID: All right. Thank you so much, Marisa.

And now if you are one of our casting director panelists, now is the time to turn on your video again, and unmute yourself, and we're gonna switch over to the second part of our program. And while they're doing that, I'm going to introduce who our guests are as they appear on our screen.

So we have Stephanie Klapper from Stephanie Klapper Casting who is also one of the people who helped put this together for us. I'm very grateful for her.

We have Karyn Casl – am I saying your name right? I meant to email you in advance. (Thank you!) from Telsey + Company.

We have Tara Rubin from Tara Rubin Casting who also helped put this together, so thank you very much. And do we have more people? I realize I'm not in gallery view so that's all I can see.

We have Lauren Port from the Goodman Theater, and we have Peter Van Dam from Tara Rubin Casting.

So if you're watching us now, because there are so many people who are gonna be part of this discussion, you may want to switch to gallery view so you can see all of us on your screen at the same time. Otherwise it'll just switch from person to person as we talk.

So this part of the discussion we're gonna divide roughly into two parts, which I've labeled as sort of the process-oriented questions, which are really about how this all works, and then a little more philosophical discussion which I think sounds fancier than it will actually be. But you know, stuff that's like a little bit less about, you know, do you want a YouTube link or an attachment, and things more about like you know what does this all mean.

As we said before, all of these questions were submitted by you, our members who are participating today so, we thank you for that. But because of that, we will not be able to take live questions over the webinar. All right, so we're going to start with some very basics. There were three questions that I think came in more often than all the other questions put together, and that's about slating, framing and eye lines.

So let's start with how do you like your videos to begin? Should they be slated? What should a slate look and sound like?

KARYN: I feel like, you know, why not slate? I don't necessarily need that for the theatrical projects, but I feel like with film and television, you're often given a very specific way to slate, so when in doubt consult those instructions first, but I like just a a simple slate: where you are, who you are, what role... and I like it unconnected from the scene. But again if you don't slate it's not gonna drive me crazy. Do you want just the slate question?

DAVID: Just the slate question now, but I just want to – when you say unconnected from the scene, does that need to be an edit or just like just maybe a breath?

KARYN: It could be a breath or it could just be a quick separate clip. I don't need like crazy editing – whatever is easiest for you, as long as I know that I get the information that I need.

STEPHANIE: And I also appreciate a slate for theatrical auditions – just a brief one – but especially since we don't have the opportunity to meet you in person, it's just a little bit of a sense of personalities that we were in the same room together. So it is that sense of connection.

LAUREN: And I am the total opposite. I hate slates for everything across every medium. I think they are so awkward over a video. If your name is on your tape, and even better, if when you send your tape you put in your email or in the subject of your download the show it's from or the role it's from, that's all I need because if I'm going to then – if it's for a virtual EPA, I've seen what I need. If you are submitting – if I've called you in for a virtual audition and you're sending me a tape, I'm probably going to get rid of the slate anyway if I'm sending it on to the team.

PETER: Yeah I'll add to that, but I think that if you're doing – if you're choosing your own material, I do find that it's helpful to note what that material is, be it a scene or a song, as part of the beginning of the tape, but that also you know sometimes people note it in text below, which is just as helpful to me.

DAVID: What about framing? How much of the person do you want to see on your screen?

KARYN: This. Really, truly. Mid-torso to top of your head it's so much like, I mean, I feel like for self taping that's our best option. I mean unless you can – you're asked to show full body at some point. But I like mid torso to the top of your head.

DAVID: A lot of heads nodding. Anyone disagree?

PETER: I'd say yeah, from your belly button up is best.

LAUREN: The only for me the only caveat to that is if you have material that includes or necessitates some sort of business that feels impossible to not include, and then if you have the ability to, I'm always open to a slightly wider shot so that that business can be included.

But how we're all looking at each other right now – you can see my hands. It's more than enough. Usually.

DAVID: Great. And then the other big question's about eye lines, especially for people who do both theater and film and tv. Is it the same? Is it different for theater? Are you looking at the camera? Are you looking past the camera? Where are we looking?

LAUREN: Never look into the camera.

KARYN: Never look into the camera unless you are told to look into the camera. Don't look at the camera.

I think it is extremely useful, just like you would – like you know, if this is – if we're talking about a monologue, perhaps that you're bringing in for an EPA, that – much like you would in the room – that you create in the space for yourself, who are you talking to, and that person is you know over there. It's not right in the camera.

That person is over there, so create that virtual human being unless you're lucky enough to have someone in quarantine with you that you can make that actual human being.

DAVID: Great, you just made everyone a thousand percent more comfortable with those three answers, so we're already on a roll. Thank you so much.

STEPHANIE: That's why we're here!

DAVID: Yeah. So the other question we got a lot of is about editing. Should a self tape be edited at all? Does it have to be edited? Do there need to be cuts between? Is it okay if someone just turns on the camera and goes?

PETER: I would say that if you're doing – if you're being asked to do multiple pieces, that a cut between each piece is helpful to us, but I wouldn't overwhelm yourselves with the editing process. You know there's not like an x, y and z you have to do for it to be perfect. I think yeah.

DAVID: Okay, and would you also prefer if people are submitting multiple pieces, that those all come as one video as opposed to like here's a video of my song here's a video of my monologue?

KARYN: Not necessarily. I mean for me it's more about, is that (and I'm sure we'll get to this) as long as that video, that file is easily downloadable, then it's fine, it's actually fine for me if you send me here's my song, here's my monologue here's my scene, boom, boom, boom. And if it's nice and clearly labeled so I don't have to go in and find that, that's even better.

PETER: Oh yeah.

LAUREN: And the thing I would say to keep in mind is that I mean I, for one, am very not technologically savvy. It took me five weeks on Zoom to figure out how to change my name to not be my daughter's. She watches her music classes on Zoom and everyone was like who's Hannah?

So know that we also understand that everyone has a different situation. Not everyone has a tripod and a clear, you know, a blue screen behind them, so do the best with what you have, and if you only can – if you aren't going to be able to send multiple clips, or you don't know how to edit within, give yourself a three second pause at the end to thank us or say goodbye while you awkwardly reach to stop recording on your phone or your computer.

You know there are ways to do it with what you have without totally stressing out or feeling like it needs to be the perfect tape. We can edit on our end to allow for a lot of those situations.

DAVID: And this is probably a good point for me to just say again, in case anyone missed at the beginning, that in June we're gonna offer a webinar that's more about how to do some of these things, really aimed at beginners so that if you don't know how to change the name of a file, if you don't know how to get the video from your phone to a casting director, that's what that webinar will be about. So stay tuned, you'll get the link to register for that tomorrow.

How is the best way to transmit the clips though? It sounds like you prefer files as opposed to a link? Like you you'd rather have something you can download than something on YouTube, yes?

STEPHANIE: No. I don't mind a private YouTube link at all.

DAVID: Is there anyone who prefers, who definitely prefers files?

PETER: I mean oftentimes we'll use Eco Cast and Breakdown Express too as a way of putting a collection of tapes together. So in that sense, I do think it's helpful to have a downloadable link.

But you know, if it's YouTube, you know, we can figure it out.

LAUREN: Also services like Vimeo, where you can post it and allow for it to be downloadable, it kind of kills two birds with one stone. So if it's an invited self-tape audition for a team that is all happening virtually, I personally prefer having the option to download it, because I'm going to then put everything I'm sending in one place to send to my team.

PETER: Just a little thing about – sorry about WeTransfer – you know, often that's a great way of sending it, but it does expire, so you just want to be careful about that. Sometimes that tends to happen.

DAVID: And some of these services like WeTransfer, they give you the option if you pay money to extend that expiration or remove that expiration, but obviously not everyone wants to invest in that sort of thing.

So we talked a little bit before about for required calls, how people can find out what's happening, because it will be in the Equity member portal under submissions, under the Casting Call section. But for non-required calls, how do people find out what's casting – now, in this weird moment?

KARYN: That's a good question.

[laughter]

DAVID: Is – I mean – Are things casting?

KARYN: Well I mean, that's, you know, it's a little bit of that. I imagine that as we – and we're learning how to progress through this just like you all are – as projects are greenlit and are able to cast, that they will turn up in the places that they did previously – is my sense is because – am I off on that? That's my...

So, you know, Playbill and then Backstage and Actors Access and all of any place that you looked previously should, would think, have that information again.

PETER: Yeah, I'd imagine a lot of regional theaters on their websites might have information about what's happening with the upcoming season in any auditions as well.

DAVID: When we run new member orientations, we like to remind people that although it doesn't always feel this way, everyone wants actors – like they want to meet actors, they want to see actors. So it's in nobody's best interest to keep these a secret, so...

KARYN: Absolutely.

DAVID: So we talked about this a little bit before, but do you have a sense about how auditions are going to be listed for self tapes? Like will they specify an amount of time, or a number of bars for a song, or like what – how do you envision, or how have you been writing them if you've already been writing them?

LAUREN: So I can speak to that. I am casting.

I'm actively casting Goodman's annual production of A Christmas Carol right now, so we are – the first sort of stage of our auditions is self taping for our director, who is watching everything.

So we are – you would receive an audition invitation the same way you would if it was in the room. It's just on tape. We're not– there is a lot of singing in Goodman's production. All of that, we are asking actors to do acapella. We do not require anyone to have any sort of accompaniment or expect that they will be able to. And then, you're getting the sides that you would get if you were coming into the room live. so it's all – it's coming to actors in the same format that it would via an agent if you have one, or directly if you're self-represented. And it's an almost identical audition request. You're just doing it on your own in your bedroom perhaps.

DAVID: And what are people doing in terms of readers, especially if they are by themselves right now?

LAUREN: I've seen just about everything, to be honest. People who have spouses or partners or children or roommates, if there is someone else living with them. I have seen a lot of that happening. I've also had actors who have recorded themselves in a very fancy way on their computers to act with themselves. I've also had actors who have enlisted other actors and have had them on an iPhone or iPad over FaceTime while they are acting. As long as – and guys correct me if you feel differently – as long as we can hear the other person clearly, it doesn't really matter how they exist in your world. Yeah, whatever is best for you. I would experiment a little bit with it and see what's the best fit for you.

DAVID: So we've asked before about local auditions – does it matter where you live? I know a lot of people who are have been based in New York and are currently temporarily elsewhere, but also people who had maybe been planning to move to New York are now questioning... is there still value to being a "New York Actor?" What does that mean? Do you have thoughts and feelings about location?

KARYN: I mean at the moment it doesn't matter where you are. I think that when it will it will start to matter where you are is again in that as now unforeseeable time when we are talking about you need to actually physically be in New York or in LA to be considered for a project, and that's again not any different really than any other listing that happened pre-COVID, so I think it's much the same. But right now, it doesn't matter. I think you have to maybe think down the line, you need to know about the project, and if that – you know, an ongoing, just hypothetical, but an ongoing show that is eventually going to come back to New York, you're gonna talk to either the casting director who asked for the appointment or your agent and say do I need to be a New York local? I mean, find that out just like you always would.

DAVID: It's funny, some of these questions are the same questions we get whether we're talking about in the room or not, but how do we feel about memorization? Do people need to have these learned? Are people doing this script in hand? Do you have preferences?

STEPHANIE: I think it's to their advantage to be very familiar with the material and have the script, but refer to it if they need it. But I think the more familiar they are, the more comfortable they'll be doing it.

PETER: I agree. I think, you know, there's certainly not an expectation for something to be fully memorized, but I do find in the medium of a self tape, the more memorized you are, the better, the more comfortable you'll be with the material.

DAVID: If people are submitting a general self tape that's not to the specific specifications of please learn this piece, you know as like a get to know me sort of thing, or however that comes, how much you want to see from someone? How long should it be?

KARYN: I mean... Three minutes feels like... there's a reason three minutes is sort of the standard. I mean, it's enough time to show something well but it's not so much time that you risk maybe having a piece that doesn't in fact get to the meat of the matter and the action and what we're looking for when we're trying to get to know someone is yeah, who are you, but also what is your ability to connect to an arc and a script and whatever the action of that scene is and to pursue your objective just like any other really good acting. So you know, when in doubt, tidy! Efficient!

PETER: Yeah. Less is more.

STEPHANIE: Yeah, because we could always ask for more later on. It's exactly – it's just a first day.

KARYN: And I will just say on the just back, on the memorization thing, I mean I absolutely agree with all of that and it is to your advantage, of course, to know the material as well as possible. When in doubt for me, I would rather have you know what you're doing in the scene, you know, and really investing the time in knowing what you the artist is bringing to the room, and being able to listen, whatever that means in these times, than choosing to spend the time on look I got it all memorized, but I actually haven't quite set out where those beats are yet, if that makes sense.

DAVID: Now, is typing a thing when you're talking about online submissions?

LAUREN: For me, no.

KARYN: Not for me. I don't – I've literally never had to type anyone. I think that's it's – musicals people, anyone? No.

PETER: No. I mean if we're doing self tapes by appointment, and sort of choosing, you know, the people to make tapes obviously it's the same process of finding the right people for the projects and reviewing resumes and all of that, but you know...

DAVID: So we talked about how for EPAs there's – in theory, the required number of people to watch would be the same as what it would be for an in-person EPA, but that really the enforcement is getting to that number of callbacks that you need to get to, so with that being the case, do you do you plan on watching them in the order they come in? Do they come in in a way that that actually has order to them? I know people are basically obviously like, the number one concern is how do I get myself seen. So what should people be thinking about in terms of that?

LAUREN: I can speak to what the process was for our – we did a virtual EPA for A Christmas Carol a few weeks ago – or months ago – I'm not sure what day it is to be honest, I think it was in April. I'm pretty sure it was in April.

We watched every tape that we received, which was close to 400.

And... I have a very amazing, Type A staff here that is very into labeling and organizing, so our tapes were organized through the email that we provided actors to submit to. It was organized by the day, by Equity status or non-Equity status, by Chicago local or non-local if that was information that an actor chose to give us or not.

What I would say, having watched all of the tapes, is racing to have it in early did not always equal the most appropriate material. And I saw a lot of tapes where actors were pulling auditions that had been posted on their YouTube channel for years that they were relabeling that you know clearly had views from other shows they had submitted for, or picking material that was not in the style of the show or not with an accent, just to be seen.

So we give you that – you know Equity is giving you that two-week window, just like you would have to prepare if you were coming in live for an EPA, my personal recommendation is use that time to actually pick the material that you want to submit that's going to show you in the best light for whatever project you are actually submitting for, trust that we are watching them, because otherwise we wouldn't be having a virtual EPA, and take your time with it so that it feels like you've done the work and know what you want to be considered for.

DAVID: You already mentioned that for A Christmas Carol you encourage people to sing a capella instead of using an accompanist. Is that a general feeling about – because it's so hard to do music and have it sound right in these situations?

PETER: Yeah, I think that, you know, we certainly it – you know it's a tricky thing to deal with in this time, finding a track and someone to record it for you. I'd say that if you are able to do that, it's more helpful to use a track or an accompanist but a cappella is certainly totally fine.

DAVID: And if someone were to use a track, is the assumption that it would be better to have someone create a track for you as opposed to like downloading a karaoke track?

PETER: Yeah. Yes.

DAVID: We've already talked about callbacks, that for now at least they're being held in person when that will be possible unless there's specific exceptions made. Has anyone been in a situation where you've done video callbacks?

LAUREN: I have from my EPA.

DAVID: Is there anything about that that you think people should know about like how does it how does it work? How does it compare to a regular in-the-room call back?

LAUREN: Honestly, we – we're trying to handle it and make it seem as much like an in-person callback as we can, so my only advice would be to go into it and treat it as much of an in- person experience as you possibly can, knowing that it's a little bit awkward for everyone, honestly.

And we're also all figuring out the best way to do this as well, right?

There are so many different platforms we can use and different technologies that are coming out, so trying to sort of finesse the most seamless process is part of what we're navigating as we go into this virtual audition age for a little while.

DAVID: Yeah. I think that's something that's – oh, go on.

PETER: Oh, sorry. You know, well, I was just gonna say that we also have been doing some call backs over Zoom. I'm working in a production of Six the Musical in Chicago right now, so we have been doing that, and it's actually been I think, a very helpful process to us and for the actors and obviously, we do our very best to make it as a relaxing atmosphere like we would in person. But it is helpful to sort of get a sense of how someone works. Maybe give them a few adjustments and you know, maybe like 15 to 20 minutes per person.

DAVID: Great, let's see... So we've sort of touched on this but people are curious if it's acceptable to send a previously made video, or should they be making a new video each time they submit. And if you can use a previous video, how old is too old?

TARA: Well, I just don't know why anyone would not try to do his or her best in a taped audition. If an artist is going to the trouble to do it, I would think that you would want to present yourself as you are today, with all of your thoughts and ideas and, you know, excitement about the project and, you know, all the all the things that you're going to bring to the process. So if you happen to have a tape that does all of that and is appropriate for more than one thing, I guess that would be fine, but I just can't really imagine a circumstance where – I mean, you know, you would not want to take advantage of the opportunity to present, you know, that – your work for the for the project.

STEPHANIE: And I think if we're trying to get –

TARA: You know somewhat – everybody else is going to make a good tape that shows themselves to their best ability, so wouldn't you want to be one of those people who did that too, you know?

STEPHANIE: And if we're trying to make it as close to an in-person audition as we could possibly make it, you'd want to bring in your work that's with the immediacy of the project too.

LAUREN: And you know, speaking specifically to a virtual EPA situation, you know, you would want to, I would think you would want to treat it the same way you would as if you were going in in person, so you know you're not gonna pull something from four years ago that you kind of like and maybe is right.

Usually, right, you're gonna – you have two weeks to prepare. You're gonna, if you don't have a piece that is appropriate, you're probably gonna find one so, to echo Tara and Stephanie, you would, I would think you would want to choose material.

Or if you or if you happen to have material that is super appropriate for two virtual EPAs, just re-upload it so it looks like you did it for this EPA and it's not listed from a year ago.

DAVID: So people had questions that we already talked about a little bit when I was talking with Marisa, but I want to give you the chance to address it from your end, about privacy and security. You know, when someone sends you a video how do you keep it safe? How do we know that it's being seen by the people it's supposed to be seen by and not by anyone else? How do you get rid of them?

LAUREN: I would say to be totally transparent, the majority of videos that I have received for virtual EPA's are publicly listed links.

So I'm clicking on them and viewing them there's nothing I'm doing with it beyond that, so that I would say 80 of the self-tape EPA auditions that I have been sent are in the public domain, so the ones that are downloadable, we have the software that we use when we're sending to a team which allows us restrictions so that we can manage who's seeing them and how long they have to see them. So in terms of protecting it, we know exactly who they're going to, and there are restrictions on keeping those videos safe.

TARA: Yeah, all of our emails have a privacy clause at the end, in them and we hope that the people, you know, that's up to the receiver to honor the privacy of the of the email.

And it's funny because these questions, you know seeing them in advance prompted Peter and I to talk about this issue. So it's really good that it came up.

And we came up with an idea to add some additional language for anything that involves a link to an audition that, just because it's become such a part of our day-to-day business, that we should actually increase our desire for security and all of that, so thank you for the questions that made us consider it a little more deeply.

DAVID: That's good to hear.

If something is cast based on a tentative start date, and then the world does not make that start date possible, do we assume that that casting is held for a future start date or do things have to go back to square one? How does that work? Has anyone been in that situation yet?

PETER: I have had dates for a project change, and I think it's really at the discretion of our producers and creative team how the process advances in that situation.

DAVID: And the last question for this sort of more down to earth section is do we know if they're going to be Equity Generals during this time?

TARA: What do you mean by that?

DAVID: So in some parts of the country, and maybe – I was hoping that maybe Lauren would answer this because I think we do this in Chicago, Equity General Auditions are basically what it sounds like: where Equity members are invited to come and audition in one shot for a whole bunch of theaters who are casting for their seasons all at once.

LAUREN: Okay, yes, now I know what you're talking about. It's not specific necessarily to Equity. I have not heard anything about that in Chicago yet. Those usually, I believe, happen in the fall.

I've only been at the Goodman since August so I'm still learning some of the Chicago landscape.

But I've heard nothing about those. At Goodman we also do quarterly non-Equity generals at the theater, where we invite non-Equity actors who don't have the opportunity to come to our seasonal EPAs to come in, in that similar format, and we've postponed our spring quarter.

But we'll make that up at some point in the fall, I'm sure.

DAVID: I think that's probably a safe assumption that generals in particular are the kind of thing that feel like worth holding until there's at least a sense of a start date.

But I also I don't have any more information than anyone else does right now.

All right, so now we're gonna shift gears a little bit, although as we're going through these questions you can decide whether or not the gears have fully shifted. But when we're talking sort of sort of the bigger picture, we're gonna start with – are people casting for these Zoom productions that we're seeing, or all those sort of coming together with people who already kind of exist as a unit? Has anyone been asked to to work on those yet?

TARA: I have worked on some of them for The Actors Fund, and we didn't hold auditions. They were, you know...

So, yeah. That matches I think what we're seeing in terms of the productions that we've been seeing.

DAVID: So this question comes with an assumption that you can tell me if it's a bad assumption, but are casting directors finding these recently popular general open calls useful? The assumption of course being that there have been recently popular general open calls.

LAUREN: I don't know what that means.

TARA: Is that what we just talked about?

DAVID: I guess? I mean, I assume that means that people are seeing casting directors saying send me your videos. It sounds like that's not something that any of you are engaging in, which I think means that you at least have not thought that it would be useful.

I think that's a safe way to interpret this.

STEPHANIE: Our members have been doing it. Some of our colleagues have both here and in LA, and I've been hearing that they've gotten tremendous turnouts. In some cases it has been a great way for them to meet people they haven't met before

DAVID: Okay. It's good to know.

So here's the big question that everyone asks, and some of you have already addressed this, but we're gonna say it again anyway: do you actually watch – "you," institutionally actually watch all the tapes that you receive from an open call? And is there any way for people to know if their tape has been watched?

TARA: I mean so far we have watched every tape.

It's you just have to understand that we're in a period where if there's a two-week period for people to submit tapes, and we received five thousand tapes over a two-week period, then you know there are no geographical restrictions, and so I'm not, you know, so far, it hasn't happened but I can see that there might be a need to address this, because, you know, it especially – some offices have had to reduce their staffing so it's not hard to imagine that there might be a time when so many tapes were received for a project that we couldn't keep up with it. It hasn't happened yet, but it's something I think we're all eager to discuss, because I don't want someone's tape to go unseen.

But if we have 10,000, I'm not sure we can't keep that from happening, you know?

DAVID: So what are you looking for when you're watching these tapes?

TARA: You know, I would say that I'm looking for the exact same thing that I'm looking for when an actor is in the room with us, which is, you know, somewhat I'm looking for talent.

I'm looking for someone who has exciting ideas about a text. Someone who has, you know, actually bothered to, I mean you know, what you all do is, you know, dig deep and and come up with something exciting to present to us, so that even if it's "oh gosh I hadn't thought about that, I don't think that's what we're doing," we know that we have a living, breathing, thinking artist who we're interested in exploring.

So it's the exact – we're looking – personally I'm looking for the same thing in a tape that I am in the room.

KARYN: Absolutely.

PETER: Absolutely. I think that it's also like we're not looking for perfection.

I think there's probably a lot of people might feel the need to put together the perfect audition just because you could do different takes and whatever, but you know we're looking for authenticity and bold choices and all of that, but not something that's like exactly perfect.

KARYN: We're looking for point of view, and it's like Tara said, you really – we want to honor you as the artists you are. You are artists. We're artists. These are art – we are artists collaborating to make a piece of art, and that's that is what is exciting to me when someone comes into the room and says this is the way I think this should be done. This is my art, whether or not it ends up being the specific art for that specific project, that person makes it into my brain and stays there, and I look to find ways to bring that person in again.

DAVID: People are very nervous about the tech side of this. Does it affect how you view it if the lighting is off? If they're not as good with the camera and all that stuff?

STEPHANIE: I think Peter said it so well when you said we're not looking for perfection.

I think it's really the essence of the audition, that we're really searching for...

PETER: I think if someone if someone sends a tape that with really bad lighting, with sound that's compromised, and we think they're exciting and right for the project, we'll consider them just as well as someone that sends something that's technically perfect.

LAUREN: And I think the thing to keep in mind is it's kind of just about making smart choices, right? Don't stand in front of an open window. Close your blinds. Make sure that someone, you know, they're not doing it with three other people in the room or someone's not cooking and you're in the room next to, you know, little things like that.

Trust us, we've received tapes like that. I've received many self tapes in front of open windows where people look in to see why someone is talking to seemingly no one, that I've then had to ask for a re-tape from. So less than being technically perfect, it's just about making smart choices to set yourself up best to succeed in whatever your circumstance may be that you're taping.

TARA: One of the reasons why Stephanie and I wanted to do this webinar today is to make sure that everybody understands that we are not expecting anyone to incur a big expense to invest in equipment, to invest in lights, to, you know, whatever you can do to the best of your ability in your wherever it is you are right now is what we expect. I mean I'm in a house where I had to change locations because activity was happening around me, so you know, we all understand that we're all kind of like trying to – we just want the best that you can do.

And we don't want you to – the things that you, you know, your lighting, the quality of your sound, that's no different from like when you are at an EPA and you feel the accompanist didn't play the tempo that you thought that you gave her. No one ever didn't get a job (to use a double negative) because the tempo wasn't right in the audition.

You know, like those things that you think might have had a difference or might have had an impact or a bearing on how you know we experienced your audition, probably have a lot less to do with it than you might think. And the same is true of these taped auditions, you know? Do the best you can with what you have.

We're hoping that it won't be forever, and we'll all get through this.

DAVID: So how does someone stand out in a self tape?

LAUREN: For me it's the same way you would in the room: be prepared, right?

If you have two days with the material, I know what I'm expecting with two days versus a week with the material. But just be prepared.

DAVID: Nice and... Great. This is maybe the same question in a different way, but what is it that makes casting directors want to continue to watch after like the first 20 seconds of the video?

KARYN: I mean I think it's everything that we just discussed about being an artist: bring – if you're coming in with the with that strong, thoughtful, prepared point of view, that makes me – that engages me just like it would in the room.

I'm still going to watch, but that's regardless of whether that hook happens, but that is the thing that grabs me just like it would in the room.

TARA: You know, we're all always casting everything that we do.

...we're in an EPA for one project but we see someone who seems like she's appropriate for something else, and so we're making those kinds of notes, and we kind of can't keep ourselves from thinking that way.

And so the shining a light on your talent and your process, you know, the ideas that you have about things and combining that with the highest degree of professionalism that you can bring to the experience is, you know, that's going to be exciting.

It may not be appropriate for what we're casting at that moment, but I can guarantee you we won't forget it. And we won't. You know, we will make note of it for something else.

DAVID: Is there a preference to someone who takes a creative approach to making a video versus sticking to a format? There are a lot of questions about props or costumes or hair or makeup like – is there a point where it's too much?

TARA: I think it's the same as an in-person audition, you know, we don't really need you to wear a costume into the audition.

You might want to dress toward the part. You know it might be easier for you to audition for a particular role in something simple or something, you know, if it's a business person, you might want to, you know, put on a jacket.

It's not, you know, things that might help you. If suggestions of the character's dress rather, you know help you with your audition, then that's a great thing to do.

It's not – gimmicks are just sort of weird, you know? They always sort of take me out of it.

Some people can bring a prop into a room and really use it well, and you think oh my goodness that was that was so clever, and then sometimes, you know, if it's organic to the experience of the audition, I don't think it's going to be a problem. I don't think you need to do it for the sake, like I would caution against doing anything for the sake of standing out.

Like I would trust that your talent will be the thing that's what you want to make you stand out, rather than a prop or a costume or whatever.

KARYN: Absolutely.

DAVID: Do you have feelings about what kind of a backdrop someone should be in front of when they're doing a self tape?

KARYN: Simple. Like for instance, I would not use the bookcase that is directly behind me. I would move it more so, well there's somebody over there, but you know, the blank wall, right?

TARA: As natural as possible, would you say?

KARYN: Yeah absolutely.

DAVID: And if someone doesn't have any neutral space in their home right now, is a virtual background okay or would that be preferable?

STEPHANIE: An ironed sheet works too, to put it behind yourself.

Desperate times, desperate measures.

LAUREN: Yeah, but I mean if you if you're technologically savvy enough to put some sort of neutral background behind you virtually, the only thing I would say is make sure you watch it back before you send it, in case half your face disappears.

But other than that, yeah, I mean why not? You could do your whole audition with no pants on, and no one would ever know.

DAVID: As long as you watch it and make sure. Otherwise, we have a harassment seminar for you to watch.

Movement can be really tricky for self tapes. How should people handle that?

KARYN: I mean I feel like especially with self tapes, but I also feel a little bit like this in the room as well, although obviously there's more freedom, but I am never looking for you to choreograph something for an audition.

Obviously if there is action that is key to a scene, if there is violence, if there's a kiss, if there's something that's in the scene for a reason, but the thing that's more important is the moment before, right? The anticipation of, and then the aftermath, the recovery from whatever that is, from the event, so it's more important to know what the transaction of that beat is than to show me, look I've spent a lot of time figuring out how to slap myself in my scene, which is probably going to take you and me out of it, you know?

If it's helpful percussively, like if you get hit and you want to like you know *slap* make a noise or slap your pages or have your reader do that or your husband or wife or roommate or whatever, great. But I think keeping movement, for me, keeping movement as simple as possible is the way to go unless you've been specifically instructed to show us something. Which is not to say freeze, right? Which is not to say like, don't pick up the water bottle if that's helping you with your scene, or move like a normal human, but maybe not across the room.

LAUREN: And I think the thing to remember, to just piggyback on Karen, is that if we're sending you the material, we know if there is business within the scene, right?

So trust that as we're watching it, we understand that if there is supposed to be physical business happening that requires another person or sound or whatever, it's very likely that that is not going to be possible, so honoring the moment the way that you can, knowing that we know it's supposed to be happening, you know, it's worth keeping in mind that we are aware, and so is the team, of what we're asking you to do and prepare.

DAVID: Is other kinds of content creation that members might be doing useful to you at this time? Like if you're watching submissions all day, are you also then like looking at Instagram stories or watching YouTube or whatever?

LAUREN: Like for actors specifically? No.

I mean, I'm not, but I'm not very active on social media.

PETER: I mean there's certainly, you know, there's so much content out there in the world as is, and I think at the present time we do have the gift of time in a way that we haven't in a long time.

So you know, there are more opportunities to comb through YouTube or binge watch a television series or whatever so I think you know I do as much of that as I can with social media.

Not as much, really but you know if you post something that comes from a place of inspiration, I think that's great. I don't – I'm not super interested in like, number of likes and followers and all of that.

DAVID: Is there a value to people taking part in online casting director workshops right now? I don't know if that's a thing that any of you were involved in.

LAUREN: You mean just like taking online classes and that kind of stuff?

DAVID: Yeah.

LAUREN: I would say I think that's a very personal choice. I have been asked to teach some online classes, which has been a great opportunity for me to meet new actors during this time, which is something that I have I have been longing for and sort of missing because we can't go see shows. We can't do that in person. I think it's a very individual choice, both financially and otherwise for an actor.

What I would say is if it's some sort of long-form class, or there is... your acting muscle can be flexed in some way and that is fulfilling to you, like as a creative outlet during this time, I'm all for it. I don't think it helps or hurts any actor to be taking classes during this time, though I think it's an individual choice.

DAVID: Are there other ways that actors can sort of make sure that they're still on the radars of casting offices if they're not seeing you in the room all the time?

PETER: I think for projects that are actively casting and you know, if you don't have representation, self-submitting is definitely important as it would be during normal times. And I would just recommend that being as specific as you can, you know, to a certain project in a role. And I think a lot of – certainly our company on our website has a general submission email, and I imagine most offices do as well.

DAVID: I know we talked a little bit before about the difference between film and theater submissions, but because that was a question that came up over and over again, I really want to make sure that we talk about that. We've talked before about eye-line but in terms of like the size of performance, you know, when people are doing a theatrical self tape, are they giving a theatrical performance that gets filmed? are they giving a performance for film since it's being filmed and trust that you connect the dots? What do you prefer to see?

KARYN: That's a great question. I think – I think in all audition circumstances, it's about reading the room, right? And literally reading yourself physically in the size of that room, the size of a self-tape audition is itself, it is that of you and the camera. It's a smaller room. It doesn't mean you restrict your performance, but if I'm asking you to come in for, you know, Chicago Shakespeare (I don't cast for Chicago Shakespeare, but you know if I did and I would be so lucky) or an outdoor Shakespeare festival, but I don't want you in your self tape to prove to me that you have the vocal chops to fill a 1200 seat outdoor venue, if that makes sense. It's because it will feel outsized to the room that you're in. It's the same thing, the difference between if you physically walked into a studio that's 10 by 8 and you physically walked into a studio that's 20 by 40, right? That your instrument will operate differently in that room. But there's not a difference to the acting. For me, good acting is good acting. It's just more like muscle work.

TARA: There's an adjustment that does need to be made. It's exactly, I think, I completely agree with Karen, you know? You make an adjustment for the medium but what's true about your audition is the same, and you know…

KARYN: It's a little bit of I do because I find, and I get this I get this from actors a lot, especially theatrical actors who are switching to doing more self tape, and that they'll go too far to the other side of I feel like I can't move, right? And you're worried about your eyebrows and you're just [gestures] and then and then what I read in the camera is I'm freezing instead of I'm playing my objective, right?

We're humans. We move. We breathe. We twitch. We don't always make – oh, this is something I would encourage you to do when working on the self tape: watch it and make sure you haven't reverted to I'm looking into the eyes of whoever I'm playing with the whole time, unless that's really appropriate to the scene. That's not how we are. That's not how humans are. Humans talk to people and look over their shoulders and do stuff, so see what you can do to free that physicality within, you know, the torso to the top of your head frame.

STEPHANIE: And that way it is more theatrical and vibrant than perhaps if you were taping for film or tv. So it's adjusting for the medium, but still creating that sense of vibrance and personality that sometimes gets lost when adjusting for more filmic auditions.

DAVID: When people are choosing material, are there certain kinds of material that you think lends itself better to the self tape than others?

LAUREN: I don't. I've seen the gamut already, so if you're doing it well, and it's truthful, then to me it kind of makes no difference what it is, personally.

DAVID: We are almost at time, so I have two I think very short questions left.

One is does this moment of everything happening via self tape and submission offer any opportunities to unrepresented actors that they might not have in a regular time? I guess the question is like is it still an advantage – I mean you're still getting submissions from representation so there's still that for people who have that – but you know, is it easier I guess to get seen if you're not represented now than it would be in another time?

KARYN: I think it's an evolving question.

I think – I suspect we don't necessarily know. I mean it's possible that there might be an increase in access, but I don't know how to articulate it.

There's not a “if it's this, this and this, there's your answer.”

DAVID: Right.

PETER: Yeah, with some projects I do think we do we have more time than we normally would for the process, which means that we have the opportunity to see more people, which is great and exciting, so I would say that yes, as a result of that that we are seeing more actors.

DAVID: And there's a funny note to end on but when people have sent a YouTube link, and then they stare at that page and stare at that page, and the view count hasn't gone up, is there an appropriate way for them to check in on it?

PETER: Well sometimes, you know, we'll download that, and then it will be viewed on another format. So oftentimes the view count doesn't mean much.

KARYN: That's how – that's exactly what we do. We move everything on to Eco Path. We use Breakdowns, and so that – you're not getting that thing off of how we distribute it.

LAUREN: My biggest piece of advice would be if you are nervous nelly that's going to check that, don't put it on YouTube. Send it in a downloadable link or something that isn't going to track that, and know and trust, just like if you were going to walk into the room, you have your audition, you walk out, it's over. You can't magically flow back in and be a fly on the wall to hear yourself being talked about. Don't put yourself in a position to be nervous about it. That would be my advice. Just don't even put it on YouTube. Send it in a way that you don't have to track it. You did the audition. You sent it, just like any other audition.

DAVID: That's great advice. Thank you all so much for sharing your time and expertise with us. I think I personally learned a lot. I think a lot of our members have as well, I hope, and I wish you all the best during this truly strange time that we're going through. And I'm sure we'll all be in touch.