A P P E A R A N C E S
The Sole Member: His Honour Judge Peter Smithwick
For the Tribunal: Mrs. Mary Laverty, SC Mr. Justin Dillon, SC Mr. Dara Hayes, BL Mr. Fintan Valentine, BL
Instructed by: Jane McKevitt Solicitor
For the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael Durack, SC Mr. Gareth Baker, BL
Instructed by: Mary Cummins CSSO
For Owen Corrigan: Mr. Jim O'Callaghan, SC Mr. Darren Lehane, BL
Instructed by: Fintan Lawlor Lawlor Partners Solicitors
For Leo Colton: Mr. Paul Callan, SC Mr. Eamon Coffey, BL
Instructed by: Dermot Lavery Solicitors For Finbarr Hickey: Fionnuala O'Sullivan, BL
Instructed by: James MacGuill & Co.
For the Attorney General: Ms. Nuala Butler, SC Mr. Douglas Clarke, SC
Instructed by: CSSO
For Freddie Scappaticci: Niall Mooney, BL
Instructed by: Michael Flanigan Solicitor
For Kevin Fulton: Mr. Neil Rafferty
Instructed by: John McAtamney Solicitor
For Breen Family: Mr. John McBurney
For Buchanan Family/ Heather Currie: Ernie Waterworth McCartan Turkington Breen Solicitors NOTICE: A WORD INDEX IS PROVIDED AT THE BACK OF THIS TRANSCRIPT. THIS IS A USEFUL INDEXING SYSTEM, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO QUICKLY SEE THE WORDS USED IN THE TRANSCRIPT, WHERE THEY OCCUR AND HOW OFTEN. EXAMPLE: - DOYLE [2] 30:28 45:17 THE WORD “DOYLE” OCCURS TWICE PAGE 30, LINE 28 PAGE 45, LINE 17 I N D E X
Witness Page No. Line No.
NOEL CONROY
EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 6 1
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. DURACK 32 21
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN 39 8
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COFFEY 44 14
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MS. O'SULLIVAN 47 9
RE-EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 47 25
DES McTIERNAN
EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 54 1
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. BAKER 62 6
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. LEHANE 65 9
RE-EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 71 23
PETER MAGUIRE
EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY 73 10
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN 99 13
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MS. O'SULLIVAN 101 8 Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 1
1 THE TRIBUNAL RESUMED ON THE 15TH OF SEPTEMBER, 2011,
2 AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 CHAIRMAN: Good morning.
5
6 MR. DILLON: We have two witnesses for you this morning,
7 the first witness is a distinguished witness, a retired
8 Commissioner of An Garda Siochana, and your second witness
9 is, well equally distinguished no doubt, is Mr. Des
10 McTiernan.
11
12 Now, before calling the first witness there is a matter I
13 would like to mention to clear the air for once and for all
14 to the end of these public hearings, and it's this: When
15 witnesses come before you, they are your witnesses, they
16 are the Tribunal's witnesses. They are here in answer to
17 your subpoena. Now, there is no difficulty with a witness
18 meeting one or other person other than the Tribunal, but
19 the fist port of call should be with the Tribunal because
20 the witness is your witness and thereafter, if the witness
21 wishes to meet somebody else, that is absolutely fine,
22 there is no difficulty about that. But it would be helpful
23 if that modus operandi could be followed in future and that
24 would avoid any unnecessary difficulties and in particular,
25 it will have the advantage, from the Tribunal's point of
26 view, that whatever matters the Tribunal needs to discuss
27 with the witness in advance of being -- him being called,
28 can be dealt with in a timely manner and not delay you in
29 terms of your sitting. So, if I just make that point and I
30 will leave it at that for today
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 2
1
2 CHAIRMAN: Very well. Do you have anything to say to that
3 Mr. McGuinness or Mr. Durack?
4
5 MR. McGUINNESS: I don't know if Mr. Dillon is intending to
6 refer to what happened this morning, it may be that he is.
7
8 CHAIRMAN: You don't know?
9
10 MR. McGUINNESS: I was assuming he is, but I can tell the
11 Tribunal if the Tribunal wishes to hear exactly what
12 Mr. Dillon did, but the position from our point of view,
13 Chairman, is that Mr. Conroy, as, of course, a
14 distinguished Commissioner, asked to meet us and it was
15 thought appropriate to make that appointment to meet us and
16 at Ms. Cummins' suggestion, it was arranged to meet at
17 10:15 but in fact Mr. Conroy thought it was better to meet
18 earlier at 10 o'clock and Mr. Conroy appeared, then, to
19 meet us at 10 o'clock and, as I understand it, he hadn't
20 been asked to make any appointment to come at any
21 particular time at all to meet the Tribunal counsel nor had
22 any arrangement been made, in fact, to meet the Tribunal
23 counsel and --
24
25 CHAIRMAN: Mr. McGuinness, I know what happened this
26 morning. When he arrived, as a courtesy my secretary
27 greeted him and welcomed him here and said that the
28 Tribunal counsel would like to speak to him and Ms. Cummins
29 countermanded that and said "No, no, you have to wait. I
30 want to talk to him now." And so he was prevented from
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 3
1 talking to our counsel. He was summoned to the -- he came
2 in answer to a summons here.
3
4 MR. McGUINNESS: Yes, for 11 o'clock, Chairman.
5
6 CHAIRMAN: And naturally was greeted on arrival, and he is
7 the Tribunal witness. I mean, this has happened before,
8 you obstructed -- well you didn't, Mr. Durack did --
9 obstructed a witness who came from seeing the Tribunal
10 counsel who didn't have any opportunity to talk to him at
11 all. I expressed strong views about that.
12
13 MR. McGUINNESS: Well, Chairman, indeed you did. I am
14 referring to what happened this morning. Now, no
15 arrangement had been made by Tribunal counsel to see
16 Mr. Conroy at any stage, nor had he been asked to attend at
17 any earlier stage, and Mr. Dillon, I regret to say, burst
18 into our consultation room and in a most peremptory and
19 rude manner purported to give directions to Mr. Conroy, and
20 to us indeed, and he was asked to wait, and after ten
21 minutes, at thirteen minutes past ten, Mr. Conroy was --
22 arrangements were then made for Mr. Conroy to see whoever
23 wished to see him, no previous indication having been made
24 that he was required to see Mr. Dillon at 10 o'clock or
25 otherwise.
26
27 CHAIRMAN: Well it was, by my secretary who greeted him,
28 and was told she couldn't speak to him that he was
29 consulting with you. This isn't good enough. I mean,
30 every -- it's an everyday occurrence that before a witness
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 4
1 appears they like to talk to the counsel who is going to
2 examine them in chief.
3
4 MR. McGUINNESS: Well, they may and they may not and they
5 are welcome to do so and free to do so, and no doubt every
6 witness with whom an appointment is made for a particular
7 time would be anxious to keep that appointment. We, in
8 answer to Mr. Conroy's request, were happy to meet him at
9 10 o'clock and we did so, and he was obviously free
10 thereafter to meet Mr. Dillon and he did so.
11
12 CHAIRMAN: And you think we should play -- the Tribunal
13 counsel should play second fiddle; that, as of right, the
14 Garda Commissioner is entitled to control all witnesses and
15 release them when he sees fit?
16
17 MR. McGUINNESS: Chairman, you may be misunderstanding. I
18 am not asserting anyone's right to control a witness one
19 way or the other at all. Obviously he is summoned to give
20 evidence at 11 o'clock and I am probably delaying that
21 process, which I regret, but if no prior arrangement had
22 been made to meet Mr. Dillon, I don't think it's a fair
23 criticism when he meets the Commissioner's counsel who he
24 requested to meet. It may be that we need more clarity as
25 to when Tribunal counsel wish to meet him, or wish to meet
26 any witness, and no doubt we should speak about the matter.
27
28 CHAIRMAN: Well, I think we should. I think it's an
29 unsatisfactory procedure and I don't propose to allow it
30 for the future. I think steps will have to be taken to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 5
1 order things differently.
2
3 MR. DILLON: Just one matter. I had my submission in
4 extremely general and broad terms and I am sorry it's been
5 personalised but that is beyond my control. I now call
6 Mr. Noel Conroy, please. 7
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Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 6
1 NOEL CONROY, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON
2 AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 CHAIRMAN: Mr. Conroy, thank you very much for coming, it's
5 a great help to us.
6 A. Thank you, Chairman.
7
8 1 Q. MR. DILLON: Mr. Conroy, you had a very distinguished
9 career in An Garda Siochana having, as you did, risen to
10 the top, you were Commissioner of the Force before your
11 retirement, isn't that right?
12 A. That's correct.
13 2 Q. And your career started in 1963 and I think you had quite a
14 number of assignments before your appointment as Garda
15 Commissioner, and I would ask you to focus on a number of
16 periods which are of interest to the Chairman, and if we
17 could begin with 1989, which of course is the year in which
18 the two RUC officers were murdered?
19 A. Yes.
20 3 Q. Where were you in the Garda Siochana at that time?
21 A. I was in -- based at Harcourt Square at a unit known as the
22 Central Detective Unit dealing with serious crime and drug
23 offences.
24 4 Q. Now, is that a separate unit to another unit that was
25 subversives, for example?
26 A. It is, yes, totally different.
27 5 Q. Are they in different buildings?
28 A. Different buildings. The individuals dealing with
29 subversives were housed in the middle block, whereas we
30 were housed in the southern block. There are three or four
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 7
1 blocks in Harcourt Square.
2 6 Q. Yes. And there is a witness who gave evidence to the
3 Chairman yesterday, retired Detective Inspector Sean
4 O'Connell; did you come across him when you were in --
5 A. I knew of him but not well.
6 7 Q. Now, in 1989, March 1989, presumably you got word of the
7 fact that these murders had occurred?
8 A. Oh, yes, it would have been well-known by the officers.
9 8 Q. Presumably it was a shock to you?
10 A. Oh, yes, it was indeed.
11 9 Q. Was there any discussion or talk about the circumstances of
12 the murder in Dublin?
13 A. I can't, at this stage, recall what discussions would have
14 taken place, but naturally enough, if any information came
15 to hand to personnel in the Central Detective Unit, that
16 would be brought to the notice of Crime & Security Branch,
17 who would ensure that it would be appropriately dealt with.
18 10 Q. Very well. Now, I appreciate you weren't here yesterday
19 but Mr. O'Connell, whom I have mentioned, gave evidence to
20 the Chairman about the impression that was formed amongst
21 his colleagues, and I appreciate he worked in a separate
22 building, he dealt in a separate area, and what he said
23 was: "The general impression was that the IRA must have
24 known something or someone must have tipped them off. It
25 was hard to go away from that conclusion really, but on the
26 other hand, there is no nothing, there is no hard evidence
27 or we had no hard evidence. It's just that we were saying
28 to each other when we were working."
29 And further on, later on he made it clear that he was not
30 restricting his comments to a Garda tip-off, he said "No,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 8
1 it was very precise and I am not restricting it to a Garda
2 tip-off."
3 "... including the possibility that the IRA could have
4 learned of their intended trip from sources within Northern
5 Ireland?
6 A. Yes."
7
8 So it seems that in Mr. O'Connell's circle, if I can put it
9 that way, there was discussion of the possibility of a
10 tip-off. Did that ever surface in your area?
11 A. No, definitely not, and he, knowing where he was based, he
12 would be more appropriately dealing with issues emanating
13 from those murders.
14 11 Q. Yes. Now, in the year 2000, I think you were aware that
15 the allegation of collusion bounced back into the public
16 arena?
17 A. Yes, it did because --
18 12 Q. And it led to an exchange between the then Minister for
19 Justice and I think Mr. Higgins, who was an opposition TD?
20 A. I can't recall that actually.
21 13 Q. Very well. But the conclusion, the ultimate conclusion was
22 that the Garda Commissioner was asked to reinvestigate the
23 matter, isn't that right?
24 A. Yes, yes.
25 14 Q. I think at the time the Garda Commissioner was Mr. Pat
26 Byrne?
27 A. That's correct, Chairman.
28 15 Q. What involvement did you have in this exercise?
29 A. I would have spoken on a regular basis to the lead
30 investigator, which was then Detective Chief Superintendent
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 9
1 Sean Camon. I did correspond with my colleagues in the RUC
2 in relation to a request made by him to me.
3 16 Q. Yes. Could you just bear with me a second?
4 A. Yes.
5 17 Q. Now, I think you understand that we have a convention that
6 we don't refer to the names of RUC officers, even deceased,
7 with certain exceptions such as Mr. Breen and Mr. Buchanan?
8 A. Yes.
9 18 Q. Now I think you see there, that is a letter you received
10 from a senior RUC officer, isn't that right?
11 A. It is, indeed.
12 19 Q. Which I think was ultimately incorporated in Sean Camon's
13 report?
14 A. Correct.
15 20 Q. Yes. Now, in it he -- he writes to you: "Allegations
16 concerning collusion by members of An Garda Siochana with
17 PIRA in the border area of Louth and Co. Armagh from 1985
18 to 1991." So this was a request, I think, on a wider
19 background, not just the 1989 murders, isn't that right?
20 A. That is correct.
21 21 Q. Because I think what prompted this inquiry was an article
22 which was published in The Irish Times by a journalist
23 called Kevin Myers, and the Chairman will hear from him in
24 due course, in which he covered a series of unsolved
25 murders spanning that period, and alleged in his article
26 that they were as a result of collusion by a Garda officer,
27 isn't that right?
28 A. Yes.
29 22 Q. So this is the reason why this particular time span is
30 chosen in the caption, isn't that right?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 10
1 A. I understand.
2 23 Q. "I write in furtherance of your letter of 19 June 2000 in
3 my reply of the 26 June 2000 concerning your investigation
4 of allegations of collusion in terrorist incidents in the
5 Co. Louth and Co. Armagh border area between 1995 and 1991.
6 Chief Superintendents Sean Camon" -- and the name of an RUC
7 officer -- "met on Wednesday 2 August 2000 and following
8 that meeting the necessary inquiries and searches have been
9 undertaken. I have now received a report from" -- the name
10 of the officer has been deleted -- "setting out his
11 findings, a copy of which I enclose herewith. With the
12 report are two statements from Detective Chief Inspector
13 Alan Mains" -- his name is in the public domain -- "who was
14 Chief Superintendent Breen's Staff Officer at the time of
15 the murder, i.e. the RUC sergeant referred to at the top of
16 page 157 of Toby Harnden's book 'Bandit Country' These
17 statements are self-explicit."
18
19 "I trust this material will be of assistance in advancing
20 your inquiries into this sensitive matter. If I can be of
21 any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact
22 me further."
23
24 Before we go on to the enclosure, I think it's the case, in
25 addition to the article which was published in The Irish
26 Times, a journalist called Tony Harnden published a book
27 called Bandit Country?
28 A. That's correct.
29 24 Q. And essentially dealt with the activities of the IRA in
30 south Armagh?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 11
1 A. That's correct.
2 25 Q. And he has a section of the book which deals with the
3 murders of Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent
4 Buchanan?
5 A. That's correct, Chairman.
6 26 Q. And in that he purports that the Provisional IRA received
7 assistance from, as he put it, Garda X or Garda Y?
8 A. That's correct, Chairman.
9 27 Q. Yes. He didn't name who he had in mind, isn't that right,
10 in the book?
11 A. That's correct, Chairman.
12 28 Q. Now, before we go on to the enclosure, "If I can be of any
13 further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me
14 further."
15 Did you have any further correspondence with this
16 gentleman?
17 A. I didn't have any further correspondence but I would have
18 met him on a number of occasions through meetings and not
19 specifically in relation to the correspondence but other
20 security matters.
21 29 Q. Yes. Now, enclosed with that letter is a report by the
22 Regional Head of CID south region, I think you have that in
23 front of you?
24 A. Yes.
25 30 Q. It's to the Assistant Chief Constable Crime Branch.
26 "On Wednesday, 2 August 2000, I met with Garda Officers
27 Sean Camon and Peter Kirwan. I was advised by
28 D/C/Superintendent Camon that he was investigating
29 allegations of collusion between Garda and PIRA. The basis
30 of the allegations were incorporated in the publications
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 12
1 'Bandit Country - The IRA & South Armagh' by Toby
2 Harnden(pages 156-159 in particular) and an article by the
3 journalist Kevin Myers, published in the Irish Times on 10
4 March 1999.
5
6 "The crux of the Garda request was to establish if the RUC
7 had evidence or intelligence to substantiate or support the
8 allegations outlined below."
9
10 And then he outlines the allegations in the following
11 terms:
12 'Bandit Country - The IRA in South Armagh' by Toby Harnden.
13 The first one is at page 156. The quotation is:
14 "Senior RUC and Garda officers told the author they were
15 certain that information passed by a Garda officer enabled
16 the IRA to ambush them as they returned from a meeting."
17
18 The next extract is on page 157 and it is as follows:
19 "Breen was uneasy about the meeting and had confided to the
20 Sergeant that he was concerned about one garda officer."
21
22 If I just pause there for a second. Are you aware of that,
23 the sergeant in question was Mr. Alan Mains, that Mr. Mains
24 has given evidence to the Chairman along those lines, were
25 you aware of that?
26 A. Yes, I would have been yes.
27 31 Q. And then further on page 157: "Here as Garda X, whom RUC
28 Special Branch believed might be working for the IRA."
29
30 Further quotation at page 157: "An IRA man with a CB radio
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 13
1 was watching the two officers as they left Dundalk Garda
2 Station."
3
4 Then on page 158, there are three quotations, the first is:
5 "Within two days, RUC/CID investigators had concluded that
6 Buchanan's visits to Dundalk had been noted previously and
7 an ambush planned with meticulous care."
8
9 Second quotation is: "There was also technical information
10 which confirmed that the IRA had been contacted by someone
11 within Dundalk Station."
12
13 And the third is: "RUC Special Branch then received
14 intelligence that a Garda officer had telephoned an IRA
15 member to tip him off."
16
17 The last quotation appears on page 159 of the book and it's
18 as follows: "An RUC Special Branch officer, who was able
19 to name the Garda officer who had told the IRA about the
20 meeting." That's the quotation, it's not grammatical I
21 know, but that is the quotation in the report.
22
23 Then he goes on to deal with The Irish Times article of 10
24 March, 1989, Kevin Myers. And "Any detail in respect of
25 the following murders, essentially anything that would
26 amount to an allegation of collusion." And the first
27 murder occurred on 20th May 1985, Inspector William Wilson,
28 Constable Tracy Doak, Constable Steven Rodgers and
29 Constable David Bear. And the next matter was 25th April
30 1987, Lord Justice and Lady Cecily Gibson. On the 23rd
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 14
1 July 1988, Robert, Maureen and David Hanna. And on the
2 20th March 1989, Chief Superintendent Breen and
3 Superintendent Buchanan.
4
5 Now, the report concludes as follows:
6 "Detective Chief Inspector Alan Mains has now provided his
7 original statement of evidence dated 22nd March 1989 and a
8 further statement dated 15th September 2000 (copies
9 attached)"-- I haven't got them here but nothing turns on
10 that -- "which address queries 1(b) and 1(c). With regard
11 to the remaining queries no evidence exists nor can any
12 documentation be located which evidences Garda collusion
13 with subversives.
14 I forward it for the information of the Deputy Chief
15 Constable and onward transmission to Deputy Commissioner
16 Noel Conroy, Garda Siochana" and it's signed by the
17 Regional Head of CID South Region.
18
19 Now, were you aware of any matter relating to the murders
20 of the Hanna family, members of the Hanna family?
21 A. No.
22 32 Q. Were you aware that the intended target was a judge who was
23 travelling at the same time?
24 A. I have read that in recent times.
25 33 Q. Yes, but over and above that, had you any knowledge?
26 A. No, I can't recall.
27 34 Q. Very good. So, the information you received was to the
28 effect that the RUC, as it then was at the time, had no
29 information touching upon the question of a Garda collusion
30 with subversives?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 15
1 A. That's correct, Chairman.
2 35 Q. And what did you do with this correspondence?
3 A. I would have given it to the chief investigator, Detective
4 Chief Superintendent Sean Camon, so that he could explore
5 anything that he could get from that document.
6 36 Q. Had you any further involvement in Sean Camon's
7 investigation?
8 A. Well, I would definitely have been briefed by Sean Camon
9 from time to time and I have no doubt, although I can't say
10 for definite, Chairman, but I would have discussions with
11 the then Commissioner, Pat Byrne.
12 37 Q. Yes. Now, you were Deputy Commissioner at the time?
13 A. That's correct.
14 38 Q. In charge of Crime and Security. Did you appoint Sean
15 Camon and Peter Kirwan to carry out this investigation?
16 A. I would have discussed that with the Commissioner and
17 ultimately it would be the Commissioner that would make the
18 point but I would definitely have discussed it with him.
19 39 Q. Because it seems the path, if I can put it this way, was
20 from the minister, who then was Mr. O'Donoghue, to, I
21 presume, the Commissioner?
22 A. The Commissioner, yes.
23 40 Q. Correspondence was at that level, isn't that right?
24 A. Yes.
25 41 Q. And then it goes to you?
26 A. That's right.
27 42 Q. And then you made a recommendation?
28 A. Yeah, we may have just had a meeting about it and discussed
29 who best would be -- should be appointed to carry out the
30 investigation.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 16
1 43 Q. Mm-hmm. And aside from that, did you have any -- I
2 appreciate I am going over old ground but just to be sure.
3 Aside from that, did you have any further involvement in
4 this investigation?
5 A. Not that I can recall at this minute.
6 44 Q. Did you have any involvement in the preparation of a
7 summary report which went out under the signature of
8 Commissioner Byrne?
9 A. I probably had, yes, probably had. I would imagine I had.
10 45 Q. Do you recall anything of that matter?
11 A. No, I haven't -- I haven't read that since that report,
12 let's say, was prepared, so I didn't see it since and I had
13 no reason to go back to see it since.
14 46 Q. OK. Now, in 1996, you were Commissioner, isn't that right?
15 A. 1996?
16 47 Q. Had you become Commissioner at that point?
17 A. No, 2004.
18 48 Q. I beg your pardon, my apologies. You know that one of the
19 former Garda officers that the Tribunal is focusing on is
20 Owen Corrigan?
21 A. Yes, I do.
22 49 Q. Did you know Owen Corrigan?
23 A. I did, yes I did, Chairman.
24 50 Q. And in what circumstances or context did you know him? Was
25 it social or professional?
26 A. Oh, professional.
27 51 Q. Did you have many dealings with him?
28 A. I used him on one operation when I was then based at
29 Central Detective Unit in relation to the bite paintings in
30 my efforts to recover them.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 17
1 52 Q. Yes. I think what you are referring to is a theft of a
2 very valuable collection of paintings taken from
3 Russborough House in County Wicklow, isn't that right?
4 A. That's correct, Chairman.
5 53 Q. I think this is something that, to use a colloquialism, hit
6 the headlines?
7 A. It did, on many an occasion.
8 54 Q. And I think it was news not only here but abroad as well?
9 A. True, true.
10 55 Q. A very high profile crime?
11 A. Yes.
12 56 Q. Clearly the Garda Siochana were anxious to deal with this
13 because clearly this publicity wasn't best news, if I can
14 put it that way?
15 A. Well, it was very important for the nation that the
16 paintings would be recovered, Chairman.
17 57 Q. And put an end to this form of press coverage which wasn't
18 very flattering for the country, isn't that right?
19 A. Not really, no, Mr. Chairman.
20 58 Q. Now, coming back to 1989, I don't have them with me but I
21 can produce them to you quite easily, the headlines at the
22 time were: "Mole Fear in Double Murder" for example.
23 A. Mm-hmm.
24 59 Q. Screaming headlines?
25 A. Yes.
26 60 Q. There were big headlines in newspapers. What account is
27 taken of headlines of that sort?
28 A. Well, I know from, and this is my recollection of this
29 issue is this: that Detective Chief Superintendent Sean
30 Camon, during his investigation, touched on that and tried
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 18
1 to ascertain from the authors of those stories who they
2 were saying they could identify in relation to the
3 publications.
4 61 Q. I see. Just to be clear on this, are you talking about
5 press coverage or are you talking about the books and
6 articles?
7 A. The books and some press coverage and I think you referred
8 to the coverage in examination of myself there some minutes
9 ago.
10 62 Q. Yes. I think it's the case that the two officers spoke to
11 Mr. Harnden. Are you aware of the fact that the two
12 officers spoke to Mr. Harnden?
13 A. I am, yes.
14 63 Q. And they also spoke to Mr. Myers?
15 A. I am fully aware of that.
16 64 Q. Did they speak to any other person within that area of
17 journalism, if I can put it that way?
18 A. I cannot say.
19 65 Q. So when you say they spoke to the authors, they are the two
20 people you are referring to?
21 A. The authors, yeah. Well that's what I was involved in.
22 66 Q. Yes, but I am referring to is newspaper headlines in 1989
23 which carried the allegation of the involvement of a mole
24 in the killing of the two officers. What account does the
25 Force take of such an allegation in the press?
26 A. Well, that would be a matter for the investigators who were
27 carrying out the investigation of the time, whom I believe
28 was Assistant Commissioner Ned O'Dea.
29 67 Q. That's right, yes. Ned O'Dea was, as you said, Assistant
30 Commissioner and he was sent from Garda Headquarters to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 19
1 conduct an investigation, isn't that right?
2 A. That's correct, Chairman.
3 68 Q. Is there any particular reason why a senior officer from
4 outside the Louth/Meath division should be sent to conduct
5 the investigation rather than relying on local
6 investigators, local officers?
7 A. Well, I can only surmise that bearing in mind those two
8 officers had visited Dundalk Station, and it would only be
9 natural, even if they weren't officers we would assist with
10 any inquiries that would be ongoing in Northern Ireland,
11 but because those two officers had just visited Dundalk
12 station, it's only natural that it was a very high profile,
13 a very serious crime, or crimes, and it would be a natural
14 for Garda Headquarters officers to go and assist and try
15 and establish if there was any truth in the publicity that
16 was ongoing at the time.
17 69 Q. And that is just publicity about a mole, isn't that right?
18 A. Yes.
19 70 Q. Yes. Now, I think you heard that following his retirement
20 Mr. Corrigan was kidnapped?
21 A. Yes, I am aware of that.
22 71 Q. And he was kidnapped and he was very badly beaten up?
23 A. Yes.
24 72 Q. Did you hear -- did you have any information as to the
25 circumstances or the background to that incident?
26 A. I am a bit hazy on that but I understand he was taken from
27 a car, and we were not sure whether he was taken across the
28 border or not. I don't think he made any statement to the
29 investigating gardaí to let the investigators know exactly
30 what happened.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 20
1 73 Q. Yes. Have you any -- or did you have any view as to why he
2 was kidnapped?
3 A. Well, again that is coming from briefings. It is alleged,
4 it was alleged to me that they suspected that it was in
5 relation to smuggled goods that hadn't been paid for.
6 74 Q. Very well. Now, what is the basis for that? Is there any
7 basis for that allegation?
8 A. No -- well, I haven't got any other than the briefing I got
9 at the time.
10 75 Q. And when you refer to a brief, is that a report you got
11 from one of your subordinates?
12 A. No... Well it may very well be documented, but I know from
13 talking to officers that that was their view at the time,
14 but, again, I cannot recall for sure who the officers were.
15 76 Q. Now, just to be quite clear on this. That was the view at
16 the time that Mr. Corrigan was kidnapped and not
17 subsequently when he put in -- he sought -- he started the
18 procedure seeking compensation?
19 A. I have read in recent times about that but I have no
20 recollection of ever seeing any application or any
21 notification in respect of compensation being bought by the
22 individual.
23 77 Q. I understand that and I am not pressing you on that point.
24 What I am trying to see is if you can assist the Chairman
25 on whether the rumour about smuggling arose at the time of
26 the kidnap or later when he started the procedure for
27 looking for compensation?
28 A. Oh, I would -- I am nearly sure it was quite soon after the
29 kidnapping that that arose.
30 78 Q. Very well. And this is to the best of your recollection?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 21
1 A. To the best of my recollection.
2 79 Q. Now, I think you can tell us a little bit about how if a
3 guard is suspected of misconduct or inappropriate conduct,
4 how you go about dealing with that. You put surveillance
5 on, do you not?
6 A. It depends on the type of misconduct. The majority of the
7 misconduct investigations would be carried out by an
8 officer who would go about in an ordinary way of
9 investigating any crime or -- the very same procedure will
10 follow as in the case of discipline. But if it's a very
11 serious matter, then there may very well be specialist
12 units involved.
13 80 Q. Now we know about the allegation in respect of Owen
14 Corrigan. There was a similar allegation in respect of a
15 Garda Denis Kelly in Limerick, do you remember that?
16 A. I remember vaguely, vaguely.
17 81 Q. And I think there was a view that he was assisting the IRA?
18 A. Oh, yes, that's correct, Chairman.
19 82 Q. And I think the Garda mounted an operation against the
20 gentleman, isn't that right?
21 A. That's correct, Chairman.
22 83 Q. And that, I take it, was done by way of surveillance?
23 A. Yes, Chairman, yes, Chairman.
24 84 Q. And if you are going to catch somebody who you suspect of
25 passing on information, how do you go about doing it? In
26 broad general terms, I am not asking you to reveal anything
27 confidential, but just in, do you feed false information,
28 something like that?
29 A. Well, depending on the circumstances of the case and how
30 the information came to hand, but there is several ways you
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 22
1 can do it, a sting operation is usually the method that may
2 very well be put in place in relation to a serious matter,
3 and that is often done, providing it's within the law.
4 85 Q. Mm-hmm. Now, did you know a Detective Superintendent
5 called Tom Connolly?
6 A. Yes I did, Chairman.
7 86 Q. What are your views about Tom Connolly as an officer of the
8 Force?
9 A. A very upright officer, a thorough investigator and a
10 professional in any job he was given to do. That was my
11 interpretation and my views on him.
12 87 Q. And if he expressed a view on a particular matter, would
13 you be happy to adopt it?
14 A. I would, because of his skills as an investigator and his
15 integrity, I would, yes, Chairman.
16 88 Q. I think you recall looking at a report he had prepared in
17 1989? I will give you a copy.
18 (Document handed to the witness.)
19 Now, I don't propose going through the whole of this so
20 don't worry about that. If you could go to page 5.
21 A. Yes.
22 89 Q. Do you see what is written there?
23 A. Yes.
24 90 Q. "D/Sergeant Owen Corrigan has a bad reputation among both
25 the members of the public and his colleagues in the Dundalk
26 area. I am not at all satisfied that he is a fit member to
27 be in charge of a unit of Detective Branch at Dundalk. He
28 has shown, and continues to show, bad example to the many
29 younger members of Detective Branch, of which there are
30 many. I am not satisfied that his integrity is up to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 23
1 standard. I have no confidence in the member and I feel he
2 is prone to fabricate pieces of" evidence(sic).
3
4 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: "... information."
5
6 MR. DILLON: Quite right, my apologies. Is that the Owen
7 Corrigan you knew?
8 A. Well, I didn't know him to that extent. In so far as he
9 was based in Dundalk, I was never based in that area, but
10 if that is the opinion of the officer, his officer in
11 charge at the time, I have no reason to disbelieve that.
12 But I, when I used him in relation to the bite paintings, I
13 wouldn't have been thinking any way in that direction,
14 Mr. Chairman.
15 91 Q. He was chosen for this particular job by you, isn't that
16 right?
17 A. He was, yes.
18 92 Q. And this was during the time that he was still a member of
19 the Force, isn't that right?
20 A. Correct.
21 93 Q. I think your attention has been drawn to an article in
22 Phoenix which suggested that you retained his services
23 after he retired?
24 A. It was brought to my knowledge, and that is untrue, that
25 doesn't happen.
26 94 Q. Now, during the time of your career you were aware that a
27 number of officers were dismissed from the Force, isn't
28 that right?
29 A. Oh, yes, that is true.
30 95 Q. There were a number of matters. I think you mentioned
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 24
1 "taking statements, building up a suspect file, collecting
2 intelligence, which was sufficient to get a case over the
3 line."
4 A. Yes.
5 96 Q. Basically, not to put truth -- in making up a case, isn't
6 that right?
7 A. Well, in cases, preparing a file and sending it to the DPP
8 and it may very well be dealt with in the courts and
9 thereafter other things happen.
10 97 Q. And you also carried out investigation of a deceased member
11 of the Force who spent a lot of time on sick leave and you
12 determined that the medical certificates that had been
13 submitted were fraudulent?
14 A. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
15 98 Q. And having -- I appreciate the member is deceased, but
16 having determined that the certificates were fraudulent,
17 was any action taken against the creator or the maker of
18 the certificates?
19 A. Well there were a number of court cases and -- the
20 deceased's sister was charged and convicted in the court,
21 as well, in the District Court.
22 99 Q. Now, the Chairman has been told, and indeed it's been
23 mentioned in the Opening Statement, that in 1985 the RUC
24 were in possession of information which alleged that Owen
25 Corrigan was passing on information to the IRA, and this
26 was in 1985, so if could you focus on 1985 and later. Did
27 you ever come across this information?
28 A. No, I definitely didn't, and that was never brought to my
29 attention.
30 100 Q. And let us take it that it is there; is it intelligence
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 25
1 that you might expect should be forwarded to the Garda?
2 A. Oh, I would expect it, and that type of intelligence would
3 have been discussed at command level.
4 101 Q. And when you say 'command level', what level is that?
5 A. That is senior level, whether it be at Assistant
6 Commissioner level with an Assistant Chief Constable or
7 Deputy Commissioner.
8 102 Q. And if -- let us just go with the scenario that the
9 information had been received, what action, aside from
10 considering it at high level, what action normally is
11 taken?
12 A. Well, an investigation would commence immediately,
13 particularly coming from the RUC it would be reckoned as
14 credible evidence if they were actually telling you you
15 have a problem in the Organisation, be it in Dundalk or any
16 other garda station, straightaway there would be an
17 investigation.
18 103 Q. And is that the sort of matter where you maybe mount a
19 surveillance operation?
20 A. Well, depending -- well you would have to start building up
21 a certain amount of evidence first to base the
22 surveillance, base information so that the surveillance
23 could build further on the information you would have
24 gleaned from certain parts of the investigation.
25 104 Q. Now, there are two other gentlemen who are the focus of the
26 Tribunal's attention, one is a man called Finbarr Hickey.
27 Did you ever come across a man called Finbarr Hickey? He
28 was a uniformed sergeant in Hackballscross?
29 A. I know of him but I never met him.
30 105 Q. He served in Dundalk as well?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 26
1 A. That's correct.
2 106 Q. When you say you know of him, what do you know of him?
3 A. I know, Chairman, from the investigations conducted by Sean
4 Camon and a number of other officers insofar as they
5 reported and investigated the signing of passport
6 applications for individuals who turned out to be
7 associated or members of the IRA.
8 107 Q. Yes. And I think are you aware of the fact that Mr. Hickey
9 was prosecuted?
10 A. I am.
11 108 Q. And convicted on his own plea?
12 A. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
13 109 Q. And he served a sentence for what he did?
14 A. He did, Chairman, yes.
15 110 Q. Aside from those matters, do you know anything else about
16 Mr. Hickey?
17 A. Not really, no.
18 111 Q. The last name I will put to you is that of Mr. Leo Colton?
19 A. Yes, I heard of him too, Mr. Chairman.
20 112 Q. And what do you know about Mr. Colton?
21 A. Well, I know he was investigated in relation to those
22 passports and my briefings from the investigators were such
23 that he is alleged to have been the individual that asked
24 Hickey to sign those applications for passports, and I am
25 also aware that he worked with a slot machine operator who
26 is known to be or associated with members of the PIRA.
27 113 Q. Yes. Did this ring any sort of an alarm bell?
28 A. It did. He was a retired member at this stage but, yes, it
29 would.
30 114 Q. Can I ask you this: he is a retired member. Might matters
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 27
1 have been different if he was still on the payroll?
2 A. Oh, quite, quite clearly.
3 115 Q. Yes. So why is it when somebody is retired that seems to
4 be the end of the matter?
5 A. Well you see, the Garda Siochana has a disciplinary code
6 and if we hadn't succeeded, which we didn't in this case,
7 in bringing any criminal charges against him, then the
8 disciplinary code would be invoked and he would be dealt
9 with through that process.
10 116 Q. But in fairness to yourself, is it possible to invoke the
11 disciplinary code against a retired member?
12 A. No, it's not.
13 117 Q. So that isn't an option, is it?
14 A. No not an option, Mr. Chairman.
15 118 Q. That's fair enough. Let's look at it a different way. As
16 you say, alarm bells ring. Does it not suggest that maybe
17 an audit might be carried out to see what the officer in
18 question might have done when he was in the Force?
19 A. Well, we, from my briefings with Detective Chief
20 Superintendent Camon, it is clear that he wasn't in a
21 position to provide any intelligence from the type of work
22 he did. That was my recollection in relation to Leo
23 Colton.
24 119 Q. But that said, and again I stress we are dealing with an
25 allegation, it's very important to make that point and you
26 understand that of course, Mr. Conroy?
27 A. Yes.
28 120 Q. Now, the allegation is that he had some hand, act or part
29 in this matter of passports on behalf of the IRA, is that
30 right?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 28
1 A. That is correct, Chairman.
2 121 Q. But again bearing this mind that this is an allegation,
3 does that not suggest that he might be somebody who is
4 trusted by those people?
5 A. It could be. I cannot say. The fact that he went to work
6 for a person that is associated with it, of course he could
7 have been trusted, but whether he was in a position to
8 divulge information that would be helpful to them, that is
9 another matter.
10 122 Q. You see, this is what brings us back to the 20th March
11 1989; Mr. Colton was on duty that day?
12 A. Yes.
13 123 Q. Now you find, many years later admittedly, nonetheless you
14 find an allegation, and I stress again it's an allegation,
15 that he gave assistance to the IRA in a different manner,
16 which is the passports?
17 A. True.
18 124 Q. Isn't that right?
19 A. True, yes.
20 125 Q. Yes. So doesn't one go back to see what might have
21 happened in 1989?
22 A. Well, I would put great faith in Detective Chief
23 Superintendent Sean Camon and what he would have told me at
24 the time. He was a thorough investigator and has -- would
25 have been involved, during his time as Detective
26 Superintendent, Detective Chief Superintendent, involved in
27 most of the serious crimes in Dublin and elsewhere.
28 126 Q. And sadly, I think Sean Camon is deceased, isn't he?
29 A. Unfortunately he is.
30 127 Q. So Peter Kirwan, who was the co-author of the report, will
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 29
1 be giving evidence to the Chairman, isn't that right?
2 A. Yes.
3 128 Q. His name is Peter Kirwan?
4 A. Yes, yes, he was the Detective Inspector that accompanied
5 him.
6 129 Q. He was like a co-author?
7 A. Well he would be assisting.
8 130 Q. Yes. Now, did you ever hear of a man called 'Mooch' Blair,
9 Patrick Joseph, otherwise known as 'Mooch' Blair?
10 A. I heard of him but can I not talk very much on him because
11 I never had any dealings with the individual.
12 131 Q. Do you know what his background was?
13 A. I know that he was associated with the IRA.
14 132 Q. And was he based in Dundalk or do you know where he was
15 based?
16 A. I don't -- well, I possibly did but I cannot recall right
17 now.
18 133 Q. Now I think you are aware of the essential facts which led
19 up to the murders of the two RUC officers, namely that they
20 had made an appointment that morning with Chief
21 Superintendent John Nolan, they arrived at the station
22 sometime after 2 o'clock they were there for about an hour,
23 they left the station, drove him north up the Edenappa Road
24 and were, within about 20 minutes maximum of leaving the
25 station, they were murdered, isn't that right?
26 A. Yes, I believe so.
27 134 Q. Now, as you know, an allegation of collusion surrounds this
28 set of facts?
29 A. Yes.
30 135 Q. What is your knowledge about the IRA, or the Provisional
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 30
1 IRA, I should say, and whether it needed assistance or
2 whether it could work without assistance?
3 A. Well, my knowledge of the Provisional IRA, they were very
4 astute people, very clever, they were very clinical in what
5 they did, no difficulties in mounting surveillance
6 operations, no difficulties in obtaining intelligence on
7 individuals, and could well operate, in particular in south
8 Armagh, it was one of the areas well described in the -- by
9 the author of the book Bandit Country.
10 136 Q. Yes. Now, I think you are of the view that there could
11 have been a high price on Harry Breen's head, is that
12 right?
13 A. Yes, I think I recall somebody telling me that.
14 137 Q. And can you remember who told you that?
15 A. I cannot at this moment, but I read in a certain
16 publication as well, and I think his photograph appeared in
17 a certain publication, I am not a hundred percent sure --
18 138 Q. Are you referring to a photograph?
19 A. Yes.
20 139 Q. Was this a photograph of Harry Breen standing over a cache
21 of weapons?
22 A. Yes.
23 140 Q. That is following Loughgall, isn't that right?
24 A. Yes, that's right.
25 141 Q. Do you think that might have elevated his profile as a
26 target, if I can put it that way?
27 A. I have no doubt that it created a problem for the deceased.
28 142 Q. Well, coming back to what you heard about there being a
29 price on his head, aside from the publication, did you hear
30 that from any human source, if I can put it that way?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 31
1 A. No, it would be within the Organisation that I was then
2 serving in: the Garda Siochana.
3 143 Q. The Garda Siochana, yes.
4 A. Yes.
5 144 Q. So this was what people were saying, is that right?
6 A. Yes, people that should know, when I am talking about, I am
7 talking about in Crime & Security Branch, people that would
8 know.
9 145 Q. So I think in 1989, the head of Crime & Security Branch at
10 Assistant Commissioner level was Ned O'Dea, in 1989?
11 A. Yes, he possibly was. I am not a hundred percent sure. It
12 was either he or Assistant Commissioner Pat O'Toole, one or
13 either.
14 146 Q. Very well.
15 A. You are probably correct in what you are saying.
16 147 Q. We will go with both names, if I can put it that way. Do
17 you think you might have heard it from either of those two
18 gentlemen that there was a price on Harry Breen's head?
19 A. Well, I know when I went to -- on transfer to Crime &
20 Security Branch in 1992, I would have got briefings from
21 the various officers in charge of different sections within
22 Crime & Security Branch, and it possibly was at one of them
23 briefings that that was raised with me.
24 148 Q. Can you put any sort of flesh on those bones, if I can put
25 it that way?
26 A. Not really, Mr. Chairman.
27 149 Q. Tom Connolly told us. When I say 'us', I mean of course
28 the Chairman, that there was a question mark over Dundalk
29 Station and not just the station, but over a particular
30 individual; are you aware of such a question mark?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 32
1 A. No, I am not, Mr. Chairman, no.
2 150 Q. And that there was discussion of that nature in
3 Headquarters prior to his being transferred to Dundalk?
4 A. No, I am not, Mr. Chairman, no.
5 151 Q. You are aware, of course, that there are quite a number of
6 accounts circulating about Mr. Corrigan and his conduct and
7 his activities?
8 A. Yes.
9 152 Q. If Mr. Corrigan himself were aware of what was being said
10 about him, what avenues of redress did he have?
11 A. Well, I suppose the same as any other citizen of the State
12 insofar as that if they want to do something, if their name
13 is being denigrated in any way, the courts are available to
14 them, I would imagine, to take the matter there and let
15 people substantiate what they are saying about the
16 individual, or not, I should say.
17 153 Q. Yes. That is fairly normal reaction, isn't it?
18 A. Yes.
19 154 Q. Thank you very much.
20
21 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. DURACK AS FOLLOWS:
22
23 155 Q. MR. DURACK: Just a few questions, Mr. Conroy. Just to get
24 one matter out of the way first, the involvement of
25 Mr. Corrigan in the bite paintings, can you put a date or a
26 time on that?
27 A. Well, when I was based in the Central Detective Unit, it
28 possibly was '88 or '89.
29 156 Q. And you, at that stage, would have been based in Harcourt
30 Square?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 33
1 A. Yes, I was a Detective Superintendent at that stage.
2 157 Q. And it was before Mr. Corrigan retired?
3 A. And before, yes.
4 158 Q. Now, I think at the time of the murders you were, in fact,
5 involved in ordinary crime in Dublin?
6 A. That is correct, I was in Central Detective Unit, yes, that
7 is correct, Mr. Chairman.
8 159 Q. And I think, then, that you went to Crime and Security, I
9 think, in 1992?
10 A. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
11 160 Q. And I think Crime and Security deals with both ordinary
12 crime and subversive crime?
13 A. At the time it dealt with more or less all subversive
14 crime. Later it took on the role of analysing intelligence
15 in relation to ordinary crime, but that happened in '93,
16 '94, from my memory.
17 161 Q. I see. Where does intelligence come from and how important
18 is it in the system?
19 A. Intelligence is the life body of what the Garda Siochana
20 does in relation to serious matters. It comes from various
21 sources. It comes from human sources, it comes from
22 investigations, it comes from telephone surveillance, and
23 it comes from other agencies that the Garda Siochana deal
24 with, whether it be the UK or any other part of Europe,
25 from the heads of those units, or indeed from the United
26 States or Canada, we would have regular contact with all
27 those agencies, as they would with us, when I was working
28 in the Garda Siochana.
29 162 Q. And I think the essence of the international cooperation is
30 that there is an exchange of useful information?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 34
1 A. Absolutely. Very, very important.
2 163 Q. And what basis is that done?
3 A. Well, receiving intelligence from an outside agency, it is
4 their intelligence and they may put stipulations in place
5 as to how we, if they are passing it to us, how we may use
6 that intelligence and how far we may go with it, that can
7 happen. But generally they would push it as far as they
8 could, as far as we would be concerned, and it would be a
9 matter for us then, if it was passed to us, to bring it to
10 finality, if that was possible. When I say finality,
11 either bring people before the courts or recover some
12 counterband; areas like that.
13 164 Q. Do I understand you correctly that you'd never be entitled
14 to pass on that intelligence to anybody else without their
15 permission?
16 A. Oh, that is correct, you would not. Otherwise -- if you
17 were to do that, they may very well stop talking to us.
18 165 Q. Now, in relation to intelligence on-the-ground, domestic
19 intelligence, what sort of places does that come from and
20 what sort of quality does it tend to be of?
21 A. Well, members of the Garda Siochana deal with all types of
22 people. A lot of intelligence comes from criminals, and if
23 it's coming from criminals, it can normally be dealt with
24 locally in the Criminal Intelligence Unit based in -- in
25 Dublin there is such unit in each district. In some
26 country divisions, there are maybe two, but most divisions
27 in the country, bar cities, would be down to one, one
28 divisional unit. If it's intelligence in relation to
29 subversives, that would be forwarded, through the Chief
30 Superintendent of the division to Crime & Security Branch.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 35
1 There, it would be analysed and checked out and maybe
2 further inquiries may follow from it.
3 166 Q. And insofar as, say, information is coming from criminals,
4 presumably it's about other criminals, how does one protect
5 their interests?
6 A. Well, if it's given on a confidential basis, you definitely
7 do not do anything that will cause any danger or put a
8 person's life at risk. So in other words, you have to be
9 very, very careful with how you operate the intelligence.
10 And, again, just because somebody told you that
11 such-and-such committed a crime, well then you have got to
12 be very careful that he -- the individual giving you that
13 information is not the only one that knows that the
14 individual committed the crime. In other words, you widen
15 out the base from where the intelligence could come from.
16 167 Q. By this, you are suggesting, or are you suggesting, that
17 you really need to corroborate it before you start relying
18 on it and it may be a starting point but --
19 A. Oh yes, yes. Well, if somebody is giving you intelligence
20 about another crime or a criminal, of course you will do
21 your homework and establish well, what are the facts the
22 individual has given to you and does it relate to the modus
23 operandi used in the commission of the crime, if there is a
24 crime? Or if, for instance, they may -- there may very
25 well be information in relation to harm coming to some
26 individual, so in a situation like that then you have to
27 ensure that you prevent any harm coming to the individual
28 that has been identified to you from a source, and that
29 does happen pretty often.
30 168 Q. And presumably, equally, you have to take great care not to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 36
1 narrow down the possible field sources, that insofar as if
2 you had received -- if you receive information about a
3 meeting, perhaps, between three or four people, and where
4 there is very limited knowledge of the meeting, I take it
5 you have to be very particular not to narrow down the
6 potential sources of information?
7 A. Oh, yes. And if it's a meeting that is to take place and
8 it's about a serious matter, of course technical means, by
9 way of surveillance and things like that, would be put into
10 place to monitor and see and corroborate the intelligence
11 given by the source.
12 169 Q. And I take it, equally revealing the existence or the
13 identity of a handler of a source would equally be likely
14 to narrow down the field?
15 A. Oh yes, yes.
16 170 Q. And leave it open to potential threat?
17 A. Absolutely. The protection of life is ultimate.
18 171 Q. Now, you had extensive dealings with the RUC from your time
19 in Crime and Security?
20 A. Yes, I had, Mr. Chairman.
21 172 Q. How were relations between you?
22 A. Excellent. And the cooperation we got from the RUC and the
23 PSNI was first class, and terms were excellent, and a lot
24 of people are alive today because of the cooperation that
25 went on between the Garda Siochana and the RUC and, indeed
26 in recent times, with the PSNI. There are people walking
27 around that wouldn't if that cooperation wasn't there.
28 173 Q. And I think that cooperation operated at local level as
29 well as at commander level?
30 A. Yes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 37
1 174 Q. At Commissioner level?
2 A. And local levels where an immediate action was required
3 responding to something that, let's say, that was active at
4 a particular time, you would expect that the local
5 operators would be pretty quick to deal with the issues and
6 then it would be relayed to Headquarters.
7 175 Q. Now, at any stage did anybody in the RUC ever suggest to
8 you that there was a potential mole somewhere in Dundalk,
9 either in the garda station or in the public service?
10 A. No, definitely not. And I have had, say, hundreds of
11 meetings with them, with different ranks; never, ever was
12 that discussed or mentioned.
13 176 Q. There has been evidence here that the Superintendent in
14 Monaghan, Tom Curran, was approached by Superintendent
15 Buchanan and told that he, Mr. Buchanan, had been asked by
16 his superiors in the Special Branch in Belfast to approach
17 him, Mr. Curran, to tell him of their suspicions of
18 Detective Corrigan and ask him to go to Headquarters in the
19 Phoenix Park and to have Mr. Corrigan moved from Dundalk.
20 Now, Mr. Curran has told us that he went to Headquarters,
21 where he met then Assistant Commissioner Crowley, he told
22 his story to Mr. Crowley and he said essentially
23 Mr. Crowley continued reading the file that he was reading
24 and completely ignored this request from the RUC. Did you
25 know Mr. Crowley yourself?
26 A. I did. First of all, let me say I am utterly shocked to
27 think that, through the chain of command, if somebody is
28 saying that Special Branch in the RUC or the PSNI would go
29 to an officer saying what is alleged. Very surprised.
30 That would be surely a matter for command meetings and that
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 38
1 is where things, if there is anything like that discussed,
2 anything to be discussed of that nature, it definitely
3 would be discussed there and would not, in my view, ever be
4 discussed at a local level.
5 Now, you mentioned Mr. Crowley. I worked under Mr. Crowley
6 when he was Chief Superintendent in the northern division
7 here in Dublin, and I have read something published about
8 that in recent times, and I can assure the Tribunal that my
9 memory and my working with Mr. Crowley, first of all as a
10 Chief Superintendent, is that he was very particular on
11 every task that he actually would get or give to you and he
12 would remind you on a regular basis to bring it to
13 finality. He was one of those officers of the highest
14 integrity. I am shocked to think that he would be -- he
15 would have did what is alleged, because that is not the
16 Mr. Crowley that I knew. I worked with him then, when I
17 was in CDU he was the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana and
18 I had personal meetings with him where he actually called
19 me in to give an overview of crime in the Dublin
20 Metropolitan Region, and it wasn't an easy task I can tell
21 you, briefing him. He was a difficult task master insofar
22 as he wanted to know every detail of what is happening,
23 what I was doing. And not alone that, it was followed up
24 on paper later, that meeting, on a Sunday morning.
25 177 Q. And the sort of meeting that I have described to you that
26 has been described by Mr. Curran, in terms of what you
27 said, seems to be unbelievable?
28 A. Well I am shocked to think that, first of all, what the RUC
29 would be doing in coming to him, that is one; and two, it's
30 not the Mr. Crowley that I knew.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 39
1 178 Q. Now, in relation to the actual murders, did you ever have
2 any discussion with the RUC about them?
3 A. I cannot recall having any discussion, no, I can't.
4 179 Q. You had your own concerns in Dublin at that stage?
5 A. Yes.
6 180 Q. Thank you very much indeed.
7
8 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN
9 AS FOLLOWS:
10
11 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Good afternoon, Mr. Conroy, I appear for
12 Mr. Corrigan, I just have a couple of questions for you.
13 A. Yes.
14 181 Q. Would you agree with me that the theft of the bite
15 paintings, that was a very serious and prominent criminal
16 act in this country's history?
17 A. It was, Mr. Chairman.
18 182 Q. And were the Gardaí under pressure to recover the
19 paintings?
20 A. Well, it's only natural we would be under a certain amount
21 of pressure because, like everything else, the names of the
22 individuals would be well-known within the Garda Siochana
23 who were the suspects, and there would be hours and hours
24 and days and weeks and months put into trying to recover
25 them, and several attempts to were made to recover them
26 before we finally did recover them.
27 183 Q. What was your role in that investigation, Mr. Conroy?
28 A. Well, I became involved later. There was a number of
29 attempts earlier on to recover the paintings and the Garda
30 Siochana didn't succeed. I became involved later in so far
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 40
1 as intelligence that we got suggested that something was to
2 take place, and having looked and examined everything about
3 the intelligence, analysed it, I felt that we wanted
4 somebody of the calibre of Owen Crinnigan (sic) to come to
5 Dublin and do a particular task, carry out a particular
6 task.
7 184 Q. Can you tell the Chairman why you contacted Owen Corrigan
8 in respect of the theft?
9 A. Well that might be a dangerous road to go down,
10 Mr. Chairman, and I am talking about the health of the
11 individual you represent, health and wellbeing of the
12 person you represent.
13 185 Q. Mr. Corrigan?
14 A. Yes.
15 186 Q. Well, Mr. Corrigan has been through a lot so far,
16 Mr. Conroy, at this Tribunal, and he has instructed me to
17 ask you if you would confirm for the Chairman the details
18 of his involvement in seeking to recover the bite
19 paintings. So I can assure you need have no concern for
20 Mr. Corrigan's safety; he is agreeable to this course of
21 action.
22 A. Okay, Mr. Chairman...
23
24 MR. DILLON: Well, Chairman, there are two ways of dealing
25 with this. The first is that there could be a formal
26 application for a very short closed session to deal with
27 this particular matter. Mr. O'Callaghan, just at the very
28 end, threw in his client's consent to this matter being
29 aired in public, so I am not too sure what view Mr. Conroy
30 takes in light of that concession, or that consent I should
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 41
1 say, by Mr. O'Callaghan on behalf of Mr. Corrigan.
2
3 A. Well, Mr. Chairman, I have no objection in talking about
4 this. If the client of counsel wants that explored, I
5 will.
6
7 MR. DILLON: That's it then, Chairman.
8
9 CHAIRMAN: It is really, yes.
10
11 MR. DURACK: Sorry, I know I don't have to remind the
12 Commissioner but of course whatever he may say about
13 Mr. Corrigan is one thing, but certainly there could be no
14 question of any informer or anything else being referred
15 to, because it is the informer is entitled to privilege,
16 et cetera.
17 A. No.
18
19 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Maybe I can try and avoid difficulty by
20 going about it in a more conciliatory way and if I could
21 ask these questions.
22
23 CHAIRMAN: Very well.
24
25 187 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: You contacted Owen Corrigan because you
26 wanted him to play a role in the recovery of the bite
27 paintings, isn't that correct?
28 A. I contacted a member who actually made contact with him for
29 me and he travelled to Dublin.
30 188 Q. And the task you were asking, or Mr. Corrigan was being
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 42
1 asked to perform was a very sensitive and serious task,
2 isn't that correct?
3 A. It was indeed.
4 189 Q. And in order to choose a member of An Garda Siochana to do
5 that task, would you agree with me that that must have been
6 a member of An Garda Siochana that you would have to trust?
7 A. Yes, to deliver the information that I was hopeful would be
8 gleaned.
9 190 Q. And would I be correct in stating that you would not have
10 chosen Owen Corrigan for this particularly sensitive task
11 if you regarded him as a security risk, would that be
12 correct?
13 A. Oh, that would be correct, Mr. Chairman.
14 191 Q. And ultimately Mr. Corrigan, I suppose without going into
15 the detail of it, performed what he was asked to do by you,
16 isn't that so?
17 A. He did, Mr. Chairman.
18 192 Q. And have you any criticism or any complaint to make in
19 respect of how he carried out those very sensitive duties?
20 A. No, no, Mr. Chairman.
21 193 Q. And of course there is a large force in An Garda Siochana.
22 Would you agree with me that in choosing Mr. Corrigan out
23 of all the members of An Garda Siochana, that was a
24 recognition that he was an officer of some considerable
25 ability?
26 A. Ability and courage, Mr. Chairman.
27 194 Q. Mr. Dillon also referred to the kidnapping of Mr. Corrigan,
28 and I think in fairness to you, Mr. Conroy, you didn't
29 investigate that matter yourself, isn't that so?
30 A. That is correct.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 43
1 195 Q. And although you stated correctly in your evidence that
2 Mr. Corrigan didn't make a statement, were you aware that
3 he gave two interviews to members of An Garda Siochana?
4 A. No, I don't recollect that, but he possibly did.
5 196 Q. And he gave evidence here as to why he didn't make a
6 statement, Mr. Conroy, and I should just apprise you of it.
7 He stated that at that stage, since he was out of the
8 Force, he didn't want to put himself or his family through
9 what could be a dangerous period if he was to make a
10 statement against the Provisional IRA who had severely
11 beaten him up. I don't know were you aware of that
12 evidence?
13 A. No, I wasn't, no.
14 197 Q. Mr. Dillon mentioned to you, in his evidence that there are
15 a number of accounts of Mr. Corrigan and his activities,
16 and I think in fairness to him, he was seeking to refer to
17 what could be regarded as negative accounts of Mr. Corrigan
18 and his activities. However, I should say to you that the
19 vast majority of witnesses who have given evidence to the
20 Chairman about Mr. Corrigan, have given a very positive
21 account of his activities. Do you have any reason to
22 dispute the evidence given by former members of An Garda
23 Siochana that Owen Corrigan stood up to the IRA during its
24 campaign of violence?
25 A. Oh, no, I have not, no, definitely not.
26 198 Q. And you have no reason -- can I say that you accept the
27 evidence of those officers who gave evidence as to his
28 courage?
29 A. Yes. Well I used him because of his courage, that was part
30 of the reason for me involving him in the recovery of the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 44
1 bite paintings, in an effort to recover the bite paintings.
2 199 Q. It was his courage that attracted you to him in this
3 particular sensitive task?
4 A. Yes.
5 200 Q. And just to conclude. If you thought that Owen Corrigan
6 was an IRA mole, am I correct in stating that there would
7 have been no circumstances in which you would have sought
8 him for this particularly sensitive task?
9 A. Absolutely not, and I would imagine if there was any
10 information, substantial information, that that would be
11 totally explored by the organisation of An Garda Siochana.
12 201 Q. Thank you.
13
14 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COFFEY AS FOLLOWS:
15
16 MR. COFFEY: Mr. Conroy, I appear on be behalf of retired
17 Sergeant Leo Colton, and in the course of your direct
18 evidence you gave a very glowing reference as to the
19 thoroughness of Chief Superintendent Camon and any duties
20 he carried out, including investigating possible moles in
21 Dundalk, isn't that correct?
22 A. That is correct.
23 202 Q. And also in the course of your direct evidence you
24 indicated that you were briefed on the possibility or
25 question as to whether my client, retired Sergeant Colton,
26 could pass on intelligence, is that correct?
27 A. I would have been briefed by the investigator on a regular
28 basis during the course of his investigations, Chairman,
29 that's correct.
30 203 Q. And that I take it you were so briefed to the effect that
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 45
1 Mr. Colton was not capable of passing on intelligence due
2 to the type of work -- he was a uniformed sergeant?
3 A. That was the impression I got from the Detective Chief
4 Superintendent, yes.
5 204 Q. And there has been a body of evidence given from a wide
6 range of both plain clothed detectives and uniformed
7 officers to the effect that uniformed officers were not, by
8 and large, involved in the investigation of subversive
9 crime?
10 A. That would be true, other than observations made.
11 205 Q. Yes. And that if they were involved in the search of
12 property or the arrest of IRA suspects, that they would
13 only be informed at the last moment?
14 A. Yes, there is always on the basis of a need-to-know when
15 you are carrying out certain operations, that's the way I
16 operated and I am sure quite a lot of the senior officers
17 in the Organisation would operate on that basis.
18 206 Q. Can you recall who, in fact, briefed you to the effect that
19 Mr. Colton was not capable of passing on intelligence?
20 A. Well, I don't want to put it as strong as not capable of
21 passing on intelligence. If my memory is right, the
22 information was that he wasn't in a position rather than
23 being not capable.
24 207 Q. Very good.
25 A. Yes.
26 208 Q. Can you recall who so briefed you?
27 A. I have no doubt but it was Chief Superintendent Camon.
28 209 Q. And can we take it from that that Chief Superintendent
29 Camon did give consideration as to the type of work duties
30 that Sergeant Colton was engaged in and, indeed, gave
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 46
1 consideration to his career in the Gardai up to the point
2 of the investigation?
3 A. That would be so, he would indeed.
4 210 Q. And I take it that having regard to the terms of his
5 investigation, that he would have had under consideration
6 the killings of these two RUC officers in 1989?
7 A. Oh, yes, that would be very much in his mind during his
8 investigations, that's correct.
9 211 Q. And would have carried out a detailed investigation into
10 the events surrounding the March '89 killings?
11 A. Yes.
12 212 Q. And finally, in the course of his investigations, would
13 Detective Superintendent -- Chief Superintendent Camon have
14 had regard to intelligence reports, both from the Gardaí
15 and the RUC, together with any direct interviews he might
16 have carried out with personnel?
17 A. Yes, he did liaise with RUC, but he came to me in relation
18 to getting the documentation and that is why I wrote to the
19 Deputy Chief Constable in relation to his request, and it
20 was at his request to me. I cannot recall now exactly what
21 the RUC would have given Detective Chief Superintendent
22 Camon at the time, but in relation to intelligence from the
23 Garda Siochana, as he was accompanied by Detective
24 Inspector Peter Kirwan, who actually was a member of the
25 Headquarters intelligence branch. So, that's why the
26 make-up of the team was -- one was investigating crime,
27 that would be Chief Superintendent Camon; whereas on the
28 intelligence side you had Detective Inspector Peter Kirwan.
29 So you can see why the team was put in place to carry out
30 the investigation. In other words, there was nothing,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 47
1 nothing that they wouldn't have their hands on to assist
2 them in carrying out their investigation.
3 213 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Conroy.
4
5 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
6
7 MS. O'SULLIVAN: I represent Finbarr Hickey.
8
9 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MS. O'SULLIVAN
10 AS FOLLOWS:
11
12 214 Q. MS. O'SULLIVAN: I think in respect of Finbarr Hickey,
13 Detective Chief Superintendent Camon headed up the passport
14 investigation and when he would have fully investigated
15 Mr. Hickey at the time, looking back through his background
16 and his career and his history in An Garda Siochana at the
17 time of the passport investigation?
18 A. He would, yes.
19 215 Q. I have no further questions.
20
21 CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Any re-examination?
22
23 MR. DILLON: Just one or two matters, Mr. Chairman.
24
25 THE WITNESS WAS RE-EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON AS FOLLOWS:
26
27 216 Q. MR. DILLON: Can we revisit, again, this -- the evidence
28 that Tom Curran, Superintendent in Monaghan, went up to
29 Dublin to see Eugene Crowley?
30 A. Yes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 48
1 217 Q. Did you know Tom Curran?
2 A. I did, yeah.
3 218 Q. And what sort of a man was he?
4 A. A very personable type of man.
5 219 Q. How was he as a professional officer?
6 A. Well I never worked with him. I have no doubt if he
7 reached the rank of Chief Superintendent, he had to be --
8 220 Q. Was there any complaint as to his probity?
9 A. None. I would have thought there was never any question of
10 that.
11 221 Q. Now you, I think, expressed surprise or possibly shock that
12 he didn't follow the chain of command, as it were, to
13 report what he had to say to Eugene Crowley, is that right?
14 A. Well, no, no, not about his chain of command, but what I am
15 surprised at, and I did say, is that if his information was
16 supplied to him by some individual, who is allegedly Chief
17 Superintendent Harry Breen, that that was passed --
18 222 Q. Bob Buchanan.
19 A. Bob Buchanan, sorry --
20 223 Q. Don't worry about that?
21 A. If that was passed that way, it was a most unorthodox way
22 of doing business. I never tell of that type of thing.
23 The only time you'd see something happening, that if the
24 RUC wanted the Garda on the other side of the border to
25 react to an up and running incident, you'd expect that --
26 you expect that to be passed so that they can deal with the
27 issue. But to say that here -- that would suggest, if that
28 was true, that the RUC had little trust in Garda
29 Headquarters.
30 224 Q. That the RUC side --?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 49
1 A. -- had no trust in members of the Garda Siochana in Garda
2 Headquarters. If that suggestion is true that somebody
3 came to Chief Superintendent Curran to ask that somebody be
4 transferred from a location, it's very -- totally
5 unorthodox.
6 225 Q. I think the point goes a little bit further, which is that
7 Tom Curran was asked to convey to Garda Headquarters?
8 A. Yes.
9 226 Q. In other words, the information actually was to be passed
10 on to Garda Headquarters?
11 A. Yes, but maybe I took it up wrong. I took it that the
12 question was posed to me that Special Branch went to
13 Superintendent Buchanan to have that information conveyed
14 to Tom Curran who, in turn, would convey it to Garda
15 Headquarters.
16 227 Q. That is the route, yes.
17 A. I cannot understand how a thing like that could happen.
18 228 Q. Where in that route did things go wrong, if I could put it
19 that way? what should otherwise have happened?
20 A. What should have happened is this: we talked at Chief
21 Superintendent level with Special Branch in the North, we
22 talked at Superintendent level, we talked at Assistant
23 Commissioner level and we talked at Deputy Commissioner
24 level, and of course with Commissioners as well, and that
25 is what surprises me, that that route would be taken. I
26 cannot say it wasn't taken, but what I am saying is this:
27 I am shocked to think that that would happen.
28 229 Q. This was quite a sensitive matter, wasn't it?
29 A. Oh, yes, but surely sensitive matters, this is where it's
30 dealt with at Special Branch heads. I mean, that means
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 50
1 trust had broken down, if it was done the other way.
2 230 Q. Let's take it one step further. Were you in any way
3 surprised by the content of what Tom Curran told the
4 Chairman he mentioned to Eugene Crowley?
5 A. Well, as I said in my evidence already, I am shocked to
6 think that the reception that Tom Curran got from Eugene,
7 the retired or deceased member who ended up as Commissioner
8 of the Garda Siochana, knowing the individual and having
9 worked with him, and I am sure you probably meet other
10 people that would have worked to Commissioner Crowley, and
11 I will be very surprised if they do not echo what I am
12 saying here today about the man.
13 231 Q. My question wasn't really focusing on the reaction of
14 Eugene Crowley, but on the message that was being
15 delivered. Were you surprised by the message that was
16 being delivered by Tom Curran?
17 A. Totally, totally.
18 232 Q. Why is that?
19 A. Not about the contents, but totally in the manner it
20 actually started.
21 233 Q. Oh no, no, sorry, we have been over that. I am talking
22 about the content now. Were you surprised -- does the
23 content surprise you?
24 A. It does, it does.
25 234 Q. No why does it surprise you?
26 A. Because I never got any information from any individual to
27 say that there was a leak, other than what is published in
28 various newspapers, by members of the Gardaí in Dundalk.
29 235 Q. So, is Tom Curran telling the Chairman lies?
30 A. Oh, no, I am not suggesting for one moment that he is
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 51
1 telling lies.
2 236 Q. How do we reconcile the two matters? Either he is telling
3 the truth or he isn't, isn't that right?
4 A. I cannot say, I cannot say one or the other. You asked me
5 my opinion and I gave my opinion honestly and fairly in
6 respect of the question posed to me.
7 237 Q. Which, to put it in a nutshell, is, this simply couldn't
8 have happened?
9 A. Well, I am shocked if it did happen.
10 238 Q. No, no, no, you are shocked, but in your view it couldn't
11 have happened, isn't that right?
12 A. Well I cannot see it happening, but if somebody says it
13 did, well that is a matter for the individual to say that
14 it did.
15 239 Q. But he has said that.
16 A. Well, that is not a matter for me to say the individual is
17 correct or incorrect. I said I am shocked if it did.
18 240 Q. One last matter. Going back to the recovery of the bite
19 paintings, and I take this matter up in view of what
20 Mr. O'Callaghan has said to you about the consent of his
21 client to deal with these matters. We know that --
22
23 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: I want to interrupt. I hadn't been aware
24 until Mr. Conroy mentioned it that there could be a
25 potential, and Mr. Conroy clarify this, I think he
26 suggested that there could be a potential threat to my
27 client in respect of the evidence which he gave. Now, I
28 know Mr. Dillon hasn't displayed much concern for my client
29 to date in this Tribunal, but if it is the case that
30 evidence would be given which may lead to a threat to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 52
1 Mr. Corrigan, I am sure the Tribunal --
2
3 CHAIRMAN: I am sure that Mr. Conroy will ask me not to
4 continue the public session and then appropriate
5 application can be made to have it covered in private
6 session, but I think Mr. Dillon can ask the question.
7
8 MR. DILLON: I hope it won't trouble Mr. Conroy, or indeed
9 Mr. O'Callaghan.
10 241 Q. Detective Sergeant Corrigan's brief was, of course, to deal
11 with subversives, the IRA, the Provisional IRA, isn't that
12 right?
13 A. That is correct.
14 242 Q. Now, this is his professional brief, and that is a matter
15 of fact?
16 A. It is, yes.
17 243 Q. Now, there is also the matter of allegations that he had
18 other inappropriate dealings with the Provisional IRA, you
19 are aware of that as well?
20 A. Well...
21 244 Q. I stress they are allegations.
22 A. Oh yeah, yes.
23 245 Q. And you are aware of those?
24 A. Oh, I am not suggesting otherwise.
25 246 Q. Had either of those matters any bearing on your decision to
26 choose Mr. Corrigan for this particular mission?
27 A. I didn't know of those allegations at the time. I was
28 attached to Central Detective Unit which dealt with
29 ordinary crime and drugs. So I wasn't aware of any
30 allegations against the individual at that time, to the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 53
1 best of my knowledge.
2 247 Q. Thank you.
3
4 CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Mr. Conroy, I am very
5 grateful to you for coming and giving evidence, you have
6 been very helpful and it's nice to see you again. Safe
7 journey home, thank you
8 A. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
9
10 THE WITNESS THEN WITHDREW.
11
12 MR. DILLON: Now, Chairman, your next witness is Mr. Des
13 McTiernan. 14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 54
1 DES McTIERNAN, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY MR.
2 DILLON AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 248 Q. MR. DILLON: Now, I think you -- your career in the Garda
5 Siochana spanned the years 1968 to 1998, isn't that right?
6 A. Yes.
7 249 Q. And that you ultimately retired as Sergeant in the Force?
8 A. Detective Sergeant.
9 250 Q. Detective Sergeant, my apologies. And I think you served
10 in Ardee from '68 to 1970, and then you went to Carlingford
11 until 1971 and then you were sent to Navan, where you
12 served until 1989, isn't that right?
13 A. No, until 1998.
14 251 Q. I beg your pardon. Now, you then were sent to Trim, isn't
15 that right, afterwards?
16 A. Yes.
17 252 Q. And then you were back in Navan in 1992, when you were
18 appointed Detective Sergeant, and you retired in 1998?
19 A. Yes, correct.
20 253 Q. Now, I think your career was -- goes back to, shall we say,
21 the late 1960s, early 1970s when you investigated crime
22 along the border, isn't that right?
23 A. That's correct, yes.
24 254 Q. And I think that you were -- there was an arrangement in
25 those days whereby it was accepted that you, as a member of
26 the Garda Siochana, could go and interview individuals
27 north of the border?
28 A. There was.
29 255 Q. Yes.
30 A. Yes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 55
1 256 Q. You went in civilian attire; you didn't go in full uniform?
2 A. That's right, yes.
3 257 Q. But I think that bespeaks of a remarkable level of
4 cooperation between the Forces, doesn't it?
5 A. We are talking now about '68, '69, at that time there was,
6 yes.
7 258 Q. I mean, you weren't free agents because you were
8 accompanied by a member of the RUC when you were conducting
9 these inquiries, isn't that right?
10 A. More or less, yes.
11 259 Q. Now, I think it is the case, and we have heard this on many
12 occasions but you might be able to help the Chairman with
13 this, the period of 1973 to '84 were remarkably difficult
14 years for the Garda Siochana in its dealings with the
15 Provisional IRA?
16 A. They were, yes.
17 260 Q. And how -- give a flavour to the Chairman of how that
18 affected you in your work?
19 A. Well, I suppose at the time the IRA had established
20 themselves to the extent that they had surveillance in
21 place on people like myself and they had a good
22 intelligence operation in place at that time, and, as well,
23 they put a lot of people under pressure at that time,
24 decent people, to sort of follow their beliefs. So we
25 had -- it was an uphill battle at that time to operate in
26 that environment successfully.
27 261 Q. When you say people were put under pressure, what have you
28 in mind?
29 A. Well, you know, I do recall at one time a protest being
30 held in Navan and people were asked to close their shops
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 56
1 and business premises and I know that a lot of people did
2 close in response to a request or demand that they would
3 from the IRA, and others didn't, and, you know, that was a
4 form of pressure obtaining at that time.
5 262 Q. And do you remember what happened to any of those who
6 didn't close their shops?
7 A. Well, nothing happened to them. They were courageous
8 people at that time, and still are I'd expect.
9 263 Q. It was undoubtedly an extremely difficult time for all,
10 both the public and the police force?
11 A. Oh, it was. I know that the IRA had details of myself and
12 where I lived and the car I drove and God knows what else.
13 264 Q. Smuggling: if somebody were involved in smuggling, and I
14 am not asking you to address like bringing a television set
15 over the border, but on a larger scale, what involvement
16 might the IRA have in an individual's activities of that
17 nature?
18 A. Well, at that time smuggling was a way of life in that
19 particular south Armagh, Co. Louth, Monaghan, all along the
20 border, it was a way of life for people. I suppose the IRA
21 got on the bandwagon and got into it in a bigger way and it
22 became a much bigger business, if you like, at that time.
23 265 Q. And what if -- what about the position of somebody who was
24 sought to rival them in this form of business?
25 A. Well, I wouldn't have had access at that time. We weren't
26 that deeply involved in smuggling or, rather, in the
27 activities of smugglers, so my focus at that time wasn't,
28 to be honest, on those people involved in smuggling.
29 266 Q. Leaving aside individuals and just looking at the general
30 aspect of the matter, if somebody was involved in smuggling
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 57
1 in a substantial scale, might he have to reckon with the
2 IRA in that regard?
3 A. Oh, yes, the IRA moved into that area in the mid- to late
4 '70s and onwards, and they -- I suppose they were the main
5 operators of smuggling, especially in fuel and all that
6 sort of thing, it was big business then later on in the
7 '70s and '80s.
8 267 Q. Did they appreciate others coming in to try to corner the
9 market, as it were, on them?
10 A. Well, I don't know about that, but my own view is that if
11 the IRA were involved in that, they ruled the roost and
12 that was it.
13 268 Q. So if an individual was involved in large scale smuggling,
14 he basically had to do whatever the IRA would allow him to
15 do or did he have to pay tides to the IRA, or what?
16 A. I honestly don't know what the procedure might have been at
17 that time.
18 269 Q. Now, in regard to the three individuals whom the Chairman
19 is considering, did you ever know Sergeant Finbarr Hickey?
20 A. No.
21 270 Q. Ultimately, Sergeant in Hackballscross?
22 A. No, I knew nothing about him.
23 271 Q. Did you ever come across Sergeant Leo Colton in Dundalk?
24 A. I just -- yes, I remember him but had no -- wouldn't have
25 known very much about him.
26 272 Q. When you say 'remember him', what is it that you remember?
27 A. Well, I remember him as a uniformed sergeant in Dundalk and
28 that is about all.
29 273 Q. Very good. Now, turning to Owen Corrigan, did you know
30 Mr. Corrigan?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 58
1 A. I did, yes.
2 274 Q. How did you come to know Mr. Corrigan?
3 A. Well, I knew him as -- I actually worked with him when he
4 was based in Drogheda and later then I would have been on
5 operations involving Owen Corrigan over the years.
6 275 Q. And we will come on to a particular matter in a moment, the
7 question of promotion, but leaving that aside, how did you
8 find Mr. Corrigan as a professional colleague?
9 A. Well, I suppose in the early days I found him, you know, I
10 had no problem with Owen Corrigan and he was an amusing
11 type of character.
12 276 Q. We have heard that he was very energetic in combatting
13 subversives?
14 A. Yes, well in the earlier days his focus would have been on
15 crime in Drogheda. When he got promoted to Detective
16 Sergeant rank, then he was based in Dundalk and his main
17 focus then would have been subversives.
18 277 Q. Yes. Now, when he was in Drogheda dealing with ordinary
19 crime, if I can call it that, I presume he displayed vigour
20 in pursuing criminals?
21 A. Yes, he had a great reputation.
22 278 Q. The Chairman has heard of evidence of this, that on a
23 number of times Mr. Corrigan applied for promotion. Did he
24 ever discuss promotion with you?
25 A. Yes, that was, I suppose, one of the things that I didn't
26 particularly like about Owen Corrigan, because he was
27 absolutely obsessed with the fact that he wasn't promoted.
28 And, you know, it wasn't -- you get browned off listening
29 to this every time you met him during that particular era.
30 279 Q. And what was his view of those who either didn't promote
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 59
1 him or who were promoted over him?
2 A. Well, I suppose Owen, probably from my recollection, he saw
3 himself as being superior to a lot of those who were
4 promoted.
5 280 Q. And was this a constant topic of conversation or was it
6 from time to time?
7 A. Well, my memory is you were nearly assured of some
8 reference whenever you met Owen, if -- if there was enough
9 time to engage in conversation.
10 281 Q. And from your knowledge of Owen Corrigan, what can you say
11 about his relationship with money?
12 A. Well, I can only relate to what was being spoken about him,
13 and he had a reputation of being, I suppose like all of us,
14 fond of money, if we could get it, but Owen had the
15 reputation of not paying for a lot of things and that was
16 the sort of reputation he had.
17 282 Q. I think that said, you found that he could switch on the
18 charm and that is how he got information, is that right?
19 A. Oh, he was a top class investigator.
20 283 Q. Did you hear that he had been kidnapped after his
21 retirement?
22 A. I did.
23 284 Q. And what do you make of that?
24 A. Well, I suppose I was shocked, in a sense, that it happened
25 after he had retired, and wondered a lot about -- I really
26 had no idea why it had happened, but I was assuming that it
27 had to do with his past in Dundalk.
28 285 Q. When you say 'his past', do you mean his professional past?
29 A. Well, yeah.
30 286 Q. And do you have view on whether he might stand up to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 60
1 whatever was being sought from him?
2 A. Well, I don't know, really. I would not like to have been
3 in his position, and God only knows how anyone would react
4 in that scene.
5 287 Q. Now, turning to the 20th March, 1989, when the two RUC
6 officers were murdered. Where were you at the time?
7 A. I was in Trim --
8 288 Q. Trim?
9 A. -- station.
10 289 Q. And presumably word came through of this horrible event?
11 A. It did, yes.
12 290 Q. And I take it you and your colleagues were considerably
13 shocked by what had happened?
14 A. Yeah.
15 291 Q. Was there any discussion in the station about the murders
16 or how they might have happened?
17 A. Not really, not in Trim.
18 292 Q. When you say 'not in Trim', did it happen elsewhere?
19 A. Well, I'd say that the topic would have been more in focus
20 around Dundalk or closer to the border area.
21 293 Q. Mm-hmm. I think you have a view -- I think you are aware
22 that the car was parked in front of the station?
23 A. Well, yeah, I felt that if they were so parked, it didn't
24 make a lot of sense to me.
25 294 Q. Now, I think you are aware of the timing of events on the
26 day. The appointment was made at half ten, the officers
27 arrived sometime after two o'clock, they stayed for
28 approximately an hour and then some fifteen to twenty
29 minutes after they left the station they were murdered?
30 A. Mm-hmm.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 61
1 295 Q. Yes?
2 A. Yes.
3 296 Q. What do you say about the allegation of collusion?
4 A. Well, I don't know. I have no reason to believe that there
5 was collusion. I have nothing to offer in that regard
6 because I didn't -- I have no knowledge of anyone being in
7 that position of providing information to the IRA.
8 297 Q. No, I understand that, you have no evidence of collusion,
9 isn't that right?
10 A. Absolutely none.
11 298 Q. Moving away from that, and we accept that you have no
12 evidence of collusion, does the sequence of timings suggest
13 to you anything about collusion?
14 A. Oh, I suppose, you know, I don't think that the
15 possibility -- the possibility of collusion could be
16 totally ruled out. There is always that possibility.
17 299 Q. And I think you are also of the view that in any operation,
18 and presumably this operation as well, the IRA would want
19 to be in place for as little time as possible?
20 A. Well, I'd say up around those roads, if there was a unit in
21 place or a group of men assembling there, it might come --
22 I am sure it's something they'd want to avoid themselves.
23 300 Q. I think the area was heavily patrolled both by the civilian
24 force, the RUC, as it then was, and by the British Army?
25 A. I would expect so.
26 301 Q. So there was always a possibility of encountering a member
27 or two of one or other force?
28 A. Absolutely.
29 302 Q. So one is out-in-the-open, so to speak, for as little time
30 as possible, is that your view?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 62
1 A. I would expect that that would have been the thinking --
2 303 Q. Yes.
3 A. -- at that time.
4 304 Q. Thank you very much.
5
6 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. BAKER AS FOLLOWS:
7
8 MR. BAKER: Mr. McTiernan, I appear for An Garda Siochana,
9 I have just a couple of questions for you.
10 Firstly, I think during your career, I think it's the case
11 you never were actually stationed in Dundalk Garda Station,
12 is that correct?
13 A. No, I worked out of it a lot, though.
14 305 Q. Yes. And I think nonetheless you did come to know Owen
15 Corrigan, but I am taking it from your direct evidence that
16 you knew him primarily through your shared service in
17 Drogheda Station?
18 A. Correct.
19 306 Q. Yes. Now, I think you met previously with the Tribunal's
20 legal team on 23rd July, 2007, is that right?
21 A. That's correct.
22 307 Q. Yes. And I think, certainly with the written account that
23 we have been furnished of that particular meeting, I think
24 Mr. Dillon has already partially quoted it, I think you
25 were describing Mr. Corrigan, you said he could switch on
26 the charm and that's how he got information. But I think
27 you then went on in the written account to say he had the
28 capacity to produce the goods. Would you accept that?
29 A. Sorry?
30 308 Q. I think we were told that you described him as having the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 63
1 capacity to produce the goods?
2 A. Yes.
3 309 Q. Would it be fair to say that not only did he have the
4 capacity, but in fact he did produce the goods?
5 A. Oh, absolutely, yes.
6 310 Q. On a number of occasions?
7 A. Yes.
8 311 Q. Yes. And would it be fair to say that intelligence that he
9 acquired ultimately proved vital on a number of occasions
10 in combatting both ordinary crime and indeed subversive
11 crime when he went to Dundalk later in his career?
12 A. Well, I wouldn't be au fait with precisely what
13 information, but knowing Owen Corrigan and the way he
14 operated, and his reputation going from Drogheda to
15 Dundalk, I'd have no doubt that he would have been a top
16 class investigator.
17 312 Q. Yes. You'd have no reason to disagree with the proposition
18 that he did come into contact with vital information --
19 A. Oh I would accept that fully.
20 313 Q. -- which led to positive, a positive outcome from a Garda
21 point of view in terms of combatting subversive crime?
22 A. Absolutely.
23 314 Q. And would it be fair to say that perhaps not everyone would
24 have the charm, that you referred to in your written
25 account, that Mr. Corrigan was possessed with?
26 A. Absolutely.
27 315 Q. And, therefore, that charm, that quality in the context of
28 combatting subversive crime and in the context of acquiring
29 intelligence, that was very much an asset to An Garda
30 Siochana, wasn't it?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 64
1 A. Oh, it was, I suppose, one of many attributes you'd need to
2 have going down that road.
3 316 Q. Yes.
4 A. Owen Corrigan definitely had those.
5 317 Q. Yes. Now, I think you also told the Tribunal, and you have
6 touched upon it again here today, that the cars being
7 viewed or viewable in the forecourt of Dundalk Garda
8 Station, was not a particularly wise move, in retrospect?
9 A. I'd rate that as stupid.
10 318 Q. Well --
11 A. It's not the sort of -- if police officers, you know, of
12 their rank, drove down and parked like that, bearing in
13 mind that Dundalk Garda Station is surrounded by a main
14 road, and you could view those cars from several positions
15 off the main thoroughfare, I would regard that as not being
16 very security conscious.
17 319 Q. Yes. And in terms of the easy viewability, if I could put
18 it that way, what is your impression of the IRA at that
19 time in terms of their capabilities, in terms of their
20 ability to mount surveillance operations?
21 A. Well, I'd say the parking of the cars, combined with the
22 sort of intelligence operations that the IRA engaged in at
23 that time, you know, I would say it would have been very
24 easy for the IRA to make the link --
25 320 Q. Yes.
26 A. -- between the cars and the visitors.
27 321 Q. Taking that opinion into account, and referring it back to
28 what you said, you couldn't -- and again it's all opinion
29 on your part -- you couldn't discount the possibility of
30 collusion, would it be fair to say it's highly possible
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 65
1 that any assistance the IRA got was from a non-Garda
2 source?
3 A. Well, I have no idea, no idea where the sources might have
4 been.
5 322 Q. I see.
6 A. No.
7 323 Q. Thank you very much.
8
9 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. LEHANE AS FOLLOWS:
10
11 MR. LEHANE: Good afternoon, I appear for retired Detective
12 Sergeant Owen Corrigan.
13 324 Q. You mentioned in your evidence that Mr. Corrigan was, in
14 your estimation, a top class investigator, isn't that
15 right?
16 A. Yes.
17 325 Q. Would you agree with me that when you served with him in
18 Drogheda he was a top class criminal investigator?
19 A. He was.
20 326 Q. Would you agree with me, based on your experience or what
21 you heard or your direct experience of Mr. Corrigan when he
22 went to Dundalk, that he was a top class subversive
23 investigator?
24 A. Well, I would have rated his investigation skills the same
25 in Dundalk as they were in Drogheda.
26 327 Q. Would you agree with me that based on his dealings with
27 subversives, that Mr. Corrigan was at the forefront of the
28 war against the IRA?
29 A. Well, we all were at that time. He wasn't any exception.
30 328 Q. But you would agree with me that it was a very difficult
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 66
1 time to be a member of An Garda Siochana in a border
2 station?
3 A. Well, it was a difficult time for all of us within a 30
4 mile radius of the border.
5 329 Q. And you mentioned in your direct evidence to Mr. Dillon
6 that the IRA had surveillance in place on Gardaí including
7 yourself, and the IRA knew where you lived and what car you
8 drove, isn't that right?
9 A. Absolutely, yes.
10 330 Q. Did you ever suffer any harassment from the IRA?
11 A. Not really. Of course when we were on duty at
12 demonstrations and that sort of thing we would be targeted
13 by them and maybe suffer a little bit of abuse, verbal
14 abuse, but that was the extent of it.
15 331 Q. Yes. Were you ever aware of any harassment suffered by
16 your colleagues over that period?
17 A. Nothing just that comes to mind right now.
18 332 Q. I think evidence has been given to the Tribunal that a
19 member of An Garda Siochana based in Dundalk, his house was
20 burned down by the IRA; were you aware of that?
21 A. There was some -- I recall something like that happening
22 all right.
23 333 Q. My client has given evidence to the Chairman that he was
24 harassed by the IRA and that he suffered particularly
25 following his involvement in the extradition of a prominent
26 subversive to the North, Dominic McGlinchey in that posters
27 were place of him around Dundalk town with his picture and
28 various derogatory terms written about him?
29 A. Yes, I remember that.
30 334 Q. Could you elaborate on that for the Chairman, your memory
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 67
1 of that?
2 A. Well, I remember seeing the posters. We were doing --
3 working in Dundalk at the time and I remember being in a
4 housing estate and seeing these posters in windows and on
5 display in various houses in that estate.
6 335 Q. And could you just describe to the Chairman, because you
7 saw the posters, what the posters looked like?
8 A. Well now, it's a long time ago now and I just remember them
9 as black and white and the name "Owen Corrigan" and
10 "Wanted" or words to that effect on them.
11 336 Q. Yes. And just moving on to your comments in relation to
12 Mr. Corrigan, would you agree with me that Mr. Corrigan
13 wouldn't be the first guard to be unhappy at the fact that
14 he hadn't been promoted?
15 A. Oh yeah.
16 337 Q. And would you agree with me that Mr. Corrigan wouldn't be
17 the first guard to feel that he was worthy of further
18 promotion?
19 A. Yes, I am sure that that would be the case.
20 338 Q. And would you agree with me that Mr. Corrigan wouldn't be
21 the first guard to feel that others had been promoted who
22 wouldn't be as qualified or as effective as him?
23 A. Indeed, yes.
24 339 Q. And would you agree with me that Mr. Corrigan wouldn't be
25 the first guard to ventilate his annoyance at that fact to
26 other members of the Force?
27 A. Absolutely, yes.
28 340 Q. And that, would you agree with me that there is nothing
29 intrinsically wrong with that other than it can get
30 annoying to listen to if you were not predisposed to agree
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 68
1 with it?
2 A. Well, if you are listening to it on a regular basis and it
3 being repeated over and over again you get very tired of
4 it.
5 341 Q. But again there is nothing wrong with that, or unusual?
6 A. Oh, you try and avoid listening to it.
7 342 Q. And just in relation to your comments about Mr. Corrigan's
8 fondness for money, and indeed you said, 'like all of us,
9 he'd be fond of money', and there'd be nothing unusual
10 about a guard, or indeed any person, wanting to do as well
11 as possible for himself and his family?
12 A. Absolutely, but there was the problem, the way I saw it, I
13 would be a lot happier accumulating money if I paid my way.
14 343 Q. And just in relation to that, you said in your direct
15 evidence "I can only speak about what others said."
16 A. That's correct.
17 344 Q. So, your evidence in relation to Mr. Corrigan, as you said,
18 not paying his way, is based on what others said to you?
19 A. Yes.
20 345 Q. On rumours?
21 A. Yes.
22 346 Q. And you have no evidence to give to the Chairman in
23 relation to that?
24 A. I don't.
25 347 Q. Would you agree with me that a reputation for meanness or
26 fondness for money, particularly in Irish society, is
27 something that is easily gotten and very hard to get rid
28 of?
29 A. I wouldn't agree.
30 348 Q. But, again, your comments in relation to that are based, as
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 69
1 you said, on what others said to you rather than your own
2 evidence?
3 A. Yes.
4 349 Q. And in relation to your knowledge of Mr. Corrigan's
5 kidnapping, you say you were shocked when you heard about
6 it?
7 A. I was.
8 350 Q. And you said in your direct evidence that, in response to
9 questioning from Mr. Dillon, that you assumed the reason
10 for it that was it had to do with my client's professional
11 past in Dundalk?
12 A. Yes, they were my thoughts at that time.
13 351 Q. And based on your view that Mr. Corrigan was a top class
14 investigator of subversive activities, would it surprise
15 you that the IRA would want to kidnap him and try and get
16 information from him?
17 A. Well, what I suppose was going through my head at the time
18 was that if that was the case, it should have happened when
19 he was a serving member of the Garda Siochana. That it
20 happened when he had retired, you know, I felt that this
21 must be something to do with something he is engaged in
22 since he retired or -- you know, it's hard -- I am only
23 speculating.
24 352 Q. Yes. And would you agree with me that, and indeed evidence
25 has been given to the Chairman that at least one member of
26 the An Garda Siochana was kidnapped by the IRA during the
27 course of his duties. Do you have any recollection of
28 that?
29 A. I do remember a member being kidnapped, yes.
30 353 Q. So the IRA were willing to kidnap serving members of An
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 70
1 Garda Siochana?
2 A. I don't think I could agree with that. It was a very, very
3 rare occurrence.
4 354 Q. Yes. But, again, just to come back to your
5 evidence-in-chief that you -- the first thing that popped
6 into your mind on hearing that my client was kidnapped, was
7 that it had something to do with his professional service
8 in Dundalk Garda Station. In light of the high profile
9 that my client enjoyed in Dundalk Garda Station for his
10 fight against the IRA, as witnessed by you in the posters
11 that were around housing estates in Dundalk, would it be
12 correct to say that the IRA would have had no great love
13 for Owen Corrigan?
14 A. I wouldn't have been thinking quite precisely like that. I
15 was thinking in terms of what he might have been up to
16 after retirement as much as whilst he was serving.
17 355 Q. And just in relation to --
18
19 CHAIRMAN: Would you mind explaining that? You think it
20 was something he was doing after his retirement? Like
21 what?
22 A. Well, I knew he was in the public house business in
23 Drogheda and I began to think about, you know, there was a
24 lot of, how would I put it, a lot of messing with kegs of
25 beer and Guinness and that was a racket that went on along
26 the border constantly, and I wondered was this part of the
27 problem for Owen.
28
29 CHAIRMAN: Yes.
30 A. Was it that he had got -- I had a vision of him getting a
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 71
1 delivery of beer or Guinness and maybe not paying for it.
2 I don't know. They were my thoughts. And I also thought
3 about, well, you know, he certainly had a high profile in
4 Dundalk as a DS and, you know, they were my thoughts.
5
6 356 Q. MR. LEHANE: And, again, you are aware of the terms of
7 reference of this Tribunal, Mr. McTiernan, in general terms
8 what it's investigating into?
9 A. Yes.
10 357 Q. And do you have any evidence to offer to the Chairman which
11 would suggest that members of An Garda Siochana, including
12 my client, colluded with the IRA in the killing of these
13 two RUC officers?
14 A. Absolutely none, Your Honour.
15 358 Q. Thank you very much.
16
17 MR. COFFEY: No questions.
18
19 CHAIRMAN: Do you want to re-examine?
20
21 MR. DILLON: One very brief matter, Chairman.
22
23 THE WITNESS WAS RE-EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON AS FOLLOWS:
24
25 359 Q. MR. DILLON: Owen Corrigan was kidnapped when he had
26 retired?
27 A. Yes.
28 360 Q. Now, I think it's the case that Gardaí, Detective Gardaí
29 who served in Dundalk who lived in the area and retired in
30 the area, I think you are aware of that?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 72
1 A. Yes.
2 361 Q. Are you aware of any other retired Detective Garda who was
3 kidnapped by the IRA in the Dundalk area?
4 A. No, never heard of it. In any other area either.
5
6 CHAIRMAN: Thank you. It's now one o'clock. We will
7 resume at two o'clock.
8
9 MR. DILLON: Yes, Chairman. Mr. Maguire -- I should say
10 Mr. Maguire was asked to come here at eleven o'clock, he
11 has been very patient and I am aware that he has had to
12 rearrange his schedule this afternoon, so we are very
13 grateful to him.
14
15 CHAIRMAN: I want to thank Mr. Maguire for his helpfulness.
16 We will resume again at two o'clock.
17
18 THE TRIBUNAL THEN ADJOURNED FOR LUNCH.
19 20
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Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 73
1 THE TRIBUNAL CONTINUED AFTER LUNCH AS FOLLOWS:
2
3 CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon.
4
5 MRS. LAVERTY: Chairman, the witness this afternoon is
6 Mr. Peter Maguire.
7
8 CHAIRMAN: Yes, thank you very much.
9
10 PETER MAGUIRE, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY
11 MRS. LAVERTY AS FOLLOWS:
12
13 CHAIRMAN: Good afternoon, Mr. Maguire.
14 A. Good afternoon, Chairman.
15
16 362 Q. MRS. LAVERTY: Mr. Maguire, I think that you started -- if
17 I can run through your career briefly, for the assistance
18 of the Tribunal. You started off as a uniformed officer,
19 joined Special Branch and spent about 25 years in the
20 Special Detective Unit, commencing in 1978?
21 A. That's correct, Judge.
22 363 Q. You were involved in detective duties in relation to
23 subversive organisations, the IRA and the investigation of
24 subversive crime. You became a Sergeant in the Special
25 Detective Unit in or about 1988. You were promoted to
26 Detective Inspector in or around 1993 and you became a
27 Detective Superintendent in 1997, 'til 1998. You became
28 Chief Superintendent around 2000. You studied for the Bar
29 from 1984 to 1988. You studied European law from 1988 to
30 2000 in UCD, and you completed an LLM with honours in
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 74
1 Trinity College in 2001, and you took up a career at the
2 Bar in 2006?
3 A. Yes, Chairman, yes.
4 364 Q. So effectively, you are poacher turned game keeper, are
5 you?
6 A. I have been referred to in that context, Chairman.
7
8 CHAIRMAN: I'd say, game keeper turned poacher.
9
10 MRS. LAVERTY: I'll bow to your superior experience,
11 Chairman.
12 365 Q. I think that you obviously had vast experience in dealing
13 with subversives and, in particular, the IRA, during your
14 career with the Garda?
15 A. Well, I did, Judge -- or, Chairman, insofar as that,
16 certainly for 25 to 30 years, that was the main focus of my
17 policing function.
18 366 Q. And in relation to technology that the IRA had at the time,
19 perhaps you could tell us how sophisticated their
20 technology and their intelligence-gathering system was?
21 A. Chairman, they had a very sophisticated apparatus from a
22 technological point of view, and indeed from an operational
23 point of view on the ground, they would have had
24 eavesdropping equipment, they would have had what they
25 referred to as debugging equipment, which was scanning
26 equipment for the purpose of detecting the presence of
27 electronic eavesdropping equipment on their own premises.
28 They had very sophisticated weaponry, they had very
29 sophisticated technology as regards detonators, as regards
30 armaments. They had their own team that they had put
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 75
1 together for the purpose of developing what they called,
2 what we referred to as homemade weaponry, but it was quite
3 sophisticated weaponry. They had an engineering department
4 which was in operation certainly from about 1974 until
5 about 2000, and they certainly made significant progress in
6 relation to weapons. Some materials that they had
7 certainly surprised the Garda Siochana and surprised
8 international police organisations in terms of its level of
9 sophistication.
10 367 Q. And where did they get this weaponry and technology from?
11 A. Well, Chairman, as I say, a lot of it, a lot of it, in
12 recent years, they developed themselves, but they acquired
13 a lot of materials from the United States, and indeed many
14 of the materials that they purchased, that they acquired
15 from the United States, many of them were available across
16 the counter, I am afraid, particularly the eavesdropping
17 equipment and the scanning equipment. The detonators that
18 they used were detonators that we referred to as Ireco
19 detonators, and they had the one batch of Ireco detonators,
20 which was a commercial detonator that was produced in the
21 United States, and they seemed to have got almost all one
22 batch, because all the detonators that were recovered, the
23 commercial ones, certainly over a period of five to ten
24 years, were all of the same serial number. But, of course,
25 they progressed, developing their own detonator and
26 manufacturing their own detonator, which was a superior
27 piece of equipment to the commercial one.
28 368 Q. And in relation to how they communicated, was it primarily,
29 in the late '80s, by radio?
30 A. Well, they had -- they used mobile phones, Chairman, of
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 76
1 course, they used all the technology that was available to
2 us all: they had walkie-talkies, they had a lot of what we
3 called -- walkie-talkie, which is a two-way radio, a
4 personal radio that you carry and that can communicate with
5 somebody on the same frequency within a reasonable
6 distance, not a long distance, but they used mobile phones
7 and they also used equipment for the purpose of scanning
8 signals that had been transmitted by mobile phone and
9 intercepting them and recording them. I knew of one
10 particular operation, which I don't want to go into in
11 detail, that I was involved in, and we discovered
12 afterwards, when we looked at the operation and how we
13 carried it out and looked at the response to that, they
14 had, as a matter of fact, been intercepting our mobile
15 phone communications.
16 369 Q. When would that have been?
17 A. That would have been about 1990, Chairman.
18 370 Q. And I think that, in 1989, certainly I don't believe that
19 the Gardaí had mobile phones at that stage; I believe that
20 they were just coming in, would that be correct?
21 A. Well, I think we had some of the big ones at that stage,
22 Chairman. There was quite a robust mobile phone that was a
23 very big apparatus, and we had some of them at the time,
24 but we certainly didn't have anything as sophisticated as
25 they are now.
26 371 Q. You might be able to comment on this, Mr. Maguire. Witness
27 27 stated in his evidence that, on the day of the murders,
28 it had been reported to him by Chief Superintendent Frank
29 Murray, now deceased, that there was a lot of activity,
30 electrical activity or interference, noted north of the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 77
1 border from about 12 o'clock?
2 A. Yes.
3 372 Q. Now, I think that, probably, Chairman, you may not be aware
4 of the fact that Mr. -- now -- Mr. Murray, was, in fact, an
5 officer in the north of great distinction, and he had a
6 leg, an arm and an eye blown off by a bomb in a school
7 house, and, despite medical advice, I think he returned to
8 his duties for some considerable amount of years in the RUC
9 and focused primarily, I think, on IT and communications,
10 and matters like that. Did you ever meet him, Mr. Maguire?
11 A. No, I didn't. I knew of him, indeed, and I was quite -- I
12 would say that he was a very experienced officer, from what
13 I knew of him.
14 373 Q. I think he was Head of Special Branch in 1989?
15 A. He was, yes, he was.
16 374 Q. Would that suggest monitoring -- you mentioned that the IRA
17 were able to monitor signals from mobile phones. Now, is
18 that consistent with the type of monitoring that perhaps
19 Mr. Murray was referring to?
20 A. Yes, there is no doubt that by the late 1980s and early
21 1990s, they had developed the capacity to intercept mobile
22 phone and radio signals.
23 375 Q. So, Mr. Murray, when he refers to increased electrical
24 activity, presumably that would have emanated from
25 subversives, because he would have been monitoring signals?
26 A. Well, presumably. Unfortunately, I am at a disadvantage
27 here that I don't know what evidence Mr. Murray has given
28 or what evidence Mr. Murray, if he had lived, would have
29 been in a position to --
30 376 Q. No, but Witness 27 referred to the fact that there was
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 78
1 increased electrical radioactivity from 12 o'clock on the
2 day of the murders, which would, in your opinion, would
3 that suggest that perhaps there was increased activity on
4 the part of subversives?
5 A. It certainly would indicate that there was increased
6 activity on the border. Whether in relation to this or in
7 relation to something else, I don't know.
8 377 Q. Now, how did you rate Armagh, the IRA in south Armagh in
9 relation to sophistication and the ability to use
10 technology?
11 A. Yes, Chairman, the south Armagh unit of the Provisional IRA
12 was the most efficient unit of the IRA, of the Provisional
13 IRA, in the State or Northern Ireland. They had a number
14 of units, I think there would have been about six at that
15 time - now, I may be wrong; there might have been more -
16 and they were regarded as the most security-conscious unit
17 of the IRA. They were also regarded as the most efficient
18 in terms of the capacity to carry out paramilitary
19 operations and they were regarded in the organisation as
20 the prime unit, and they were used from time to time,
21 volunteers would be borrowed from south Armagh to join up
22 with volunteers from other organisations to carry out
23 operations, and, at times, operations that were going to be
24 carried out abroad, particularly, indeed, some of the
25 horrific bombings in London, the south Armagh unit were
26 asked exclusively to mount those operations.
27 378 Q. How many units do you think were in Armagh, or perhaps you
28 can describe your understanding of the structure of the IRA
29 in Armagh?
30 A. My understanding, that, at that time, there would have been
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1 about six operational officers in south Armagh at that
2 time. Now, I may be wrong in the numbers because this is a
3 long time ago, and the numbers fluctuated from time to
4 time. There would have been about six, or maybe more, and
5 they all would have access to a number of volunteers, they
6 could have between 30 and 50 volunteers operational at any
7 one time, and, of course, they would have a greater
8 reservoir of volunteers to draw from from time to time.
9 Volunteers would be brought into the field to operate, they
10 would be operating from a particular period and then they
11 might be moved laterally and other people would be brought
12 in, but they would have 30 to 50 operational at any one
13 time, with a significantly greater number available.
14 379 Q. When you say "operational," does that mean that they are
15 standing by?
16 A. Oh, they are the people that were carrying out the main
17 terrorist activities and the main paramilitary activities
18 from time to time. These people would be full-time
19 operational.
20 380 Q. And were they -- were the IRA in south Armagh risk adverse?
21 A. Now, I think if you probably asked me that in another way.
22 I am not sure that I fully understand what you are getting
23 at with "risk adverse".
24 381 Q. If they were that professional, would they take chances on
25 the off-chance that they would succeed in an operation?
26 A. No. They were particularly careful and they were
27 certainly -- they were very conscious of risk, and,
28 certainly, they are not an organisation that was caught out
29 very often, now.
30 382 Q. The particular operation that was mounted on the day of the
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1 murders, appears to have been, it would appear, in the view
2 of people dealing with security, sort of planned with
3 absolute military precision as regards timing. Now, do you
4 think that that was an operation that could have been
5 commenced on that day --
6 A. Well, Chairman --
7 383 Q. -- without prior planning?
8 A. I think the Chair is aware that I have sent in a secret
9 intelligence report about this operation, which I don't
10 think is something you want to go into in open forum.
11 384 Q. No, not today, thank you.
12 A. I could just answer that question in a general way and say
13 that the organisation that I knew in the IRA and the south
14 Armagh, would have the capacity to mount a sophisticated
15 operation at very short notice.
16 385 Q. When you say "short notice," are we talking about an hour,
17 several hours?
18 A. Yes, an hour.
19 386 Q. So suggestions that have been before the Tribunal from
20 various witnesses that it could have taken a few days or it
21 was possible that they would have mounted an operation for
22 a week, you don't necessarily agree with that?
23 A. No, Chairman. As a matter of fact, I think when we revisit
24 this at another occasion, I think that it will probably be
25 the position from my evidence that it was much, much
26 shorter than that.
27 387 Q. Yes. Would the IRA, under normal circumstances, would they
28 mount an operation over a week and have operatives
29 concealed?
30 A. Yes, Judge, and sometimes, I mean, some of the operations
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 81
1 were planned for months.
2 388 Q. Do you have a view, having followed, I presume, the
3 evidence that's been unfolded before the Tribunal, do you
4 have a view as to who was the particular target of the
5 operation, from your experience?
6 A. Well, again, I am having some difficulties with this
7 insofar as --
8 389 Q. I'll leave the subject then, thank you.
9 You will appreciate, Chairman, that matters of a sensitive
10 nature and of high-risk intelligence will be dealt with --
11 will have to, of necessity, be dealt with in closed
12 session, and Mr. Maguire will, at a later stage, be giving
13 that evidence.
14
15 Now, in relation to their transport, Mr. Maguire, what
16 arrangements did they make in relation to providing
17 transport for their volunteers?
18 A. Chairman, they normally stole cars and lorries and vans and
19 all types of transport around the country. They had people
20 whose responsibility was mainly the acquisition of what
21 they call logistics, which would be the acquisition of
22 trucks, the acquisition of cars, and they were stolen and
23 compounded and kept in places. Particularly, I remember
24 around that time, I think it was about 1989, we found a
25 compound in Arklow which, as well as a quantity of
26 munitions, I think there was five or six stolen vehicles in
27 it, including a lorry. Shortly after that, there was
28 another one found in the East Wall in Dublin where there
29 was a number of vehicles, 10 to 15 vehicles, as I recall.
30 These were all stolen to order and placed in a compound and
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 82
1 made available for operational units on the border and
2 throughout the State.
3 390 Q. Do you think it was of any significance that the van used
4 in the commission of these murders was stolen on the
5 previous Saturday night?
6 A. I don't, Chairman, no.
7 391 Q. You don't place any significance?
8 A. I don't, Chairman, because they were -- I think it was a
9 Ford Transit van.
10 392 Q. That's right, yes.
11 A. They were stealing Ford Transit vans all the time,
12 Chairman, and they were using them for the purpose of
13 transporting volunteers, for the purpose of transporting
14 munitions.
15 393 Q. How did they get through the check-points with the stolen
16 cars? What did they do in order to --
17 A. Chairman, I suppose, in another life, you'll be familiar
18 with the term 'ringer', what they called a 'ringer', which
19 was a vehicle which was, to put it crudely, which was a
20 dead ringer for another. Normally, they stole a vehicle,
21 they identified a legitimate vehicle someplace and they
22 took the plates off that and they collected as much
23 identity as they could with regard to the owner and then
24 they went as far as possible, as far as they possibly could
25 to assume the identity of the owner, and that was normally
26 used to get through a checkpoint or -- well, normally used
27 on an operation that, if they were stopped, at least, prima
28 facie, they had the materials that would indicate that they
29 were legitimate.
30 394 Q. Did you have many dealings with Dundalk in the course of
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1 your career?
2 A. Certainly in the last years of my service, I had a lot of
3 dealings with Dundalk, and in the earlier course of my
4 service as well, I was stationed in that part of the world
5 as a uniformed officer when the Troubles started. In the
6 last part of my career, I had a lot of operations that I
7 carried out in Dundalk in conjunction with the Dundalk
8 Gardaí.
9 395 Q. Did you ever have any difficulty with Dundalk Station?
10 A. Absolutely none. I found they were a very, very efficient,
11 a very loyal and dedicated station.
12 396 Q. Now, there have been -- there has been evidence here from
13 several officers that there was a concern about Dundalk,
14 people -- we had evidence yesterday from a Mr. Sean
15 O'Connell, saying that there was concern about a particular
16 member expressed in Harcourt Street, and over the years,
17 and Mr. Tom Connolly, on a previous occasion, said that
18 there was -- before he ever went to Dundalk, that there was
19 a concern expressed about a member of the Dundalk Garda
20 force. Did you ever -- did those concerns or rumours ever
21 reach your ears?
22 A. Now, was this a concern in the context of security issues?
23 397 Q. Well, it was -- it's hard to know. We have been trying to
24 -- our function is to investigate rumours and allegations,
25 and whereas there doesn't seem to be anything concrete, but
26 there seems to have been a general concern about one
27 particular member?
28 A. Well, Chairman, I would have worked in Harcourt Square all
29 my life, and in Dublin Castle before that. I think
30 Mr. O'Connell might have been in Harcourt Square for three
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 84
1 months, maybe, at maximum, as a member of the Special
2 Detective Unit. I never heard, Chairman, one iota of
3 concern expressed about Dundalk in terms of security
4 matters or one iota in relation to any member in Dundalk
5 that was identified as somebody who posed a threat to the
6 State, the security of the State, the security of the Garda
7 Siochana or of the Garda Siochana operation. Never once.
8 398 Q. Now, I think that you would have known ex-Sergeant Owen
9 Corrigan, is that correct?
10 A. Yes, I would have -- I never knew Sergeant Corrigan well,
11 but I certainly knew of him and I'd often seen him -- I was
12 on operations that he was involved in, and I suppose I
13 would have first seen him in the early '70s and I would
14 have had some experience of him right up to the date he
15 retired.
16 399 Q. And I think in the '70s he was certainly providing amazing
17 intelligence, it would appear?
18 A. Yeah, he was regarded as a very efficient officer certainly
19 in the '70s and '80s. Now, in recent years he became into
20 controversy with his authorities in Dundalk, and I think he
21 wasn't -- his return of work had almost diminished to nil
22 at one stage, but he was a very efficient officer and I
23 know that -- I mean, it's widespread that he is alleged to
24 have passed on information in this case. And just to cut
25 to the point: I never had a concern about Mr. Corrigan in
26 relation to his attitude towards security matters, in
27 relation to his fidelity to the State and in relation to
28 his fidelity to the Garda Siochana. I never suspected for
29 one minute that Mr. Corrigan was passing on any information
30 to anybody.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 85
1 400 Q. How do you think that we have ended up in this situation
2 with years of allegations and rumours and speculation about
3 Mr. Corrigan and his reputation? Do you have any view as
4 to how this may have happened within the Force or outside
5 the Force?
6 A. Well, I think what we are looking at now is we are looking
7 at a time when we have a lot of popular headlines in
8 relation to some people allegedly passing on -- alleged to
9 have passed on information that led to the commission of a
10 very serious crime, and people seem to be coming out of the
11 woodwork with information and with allegations that,
12 Chairman, I never heard of, and if I -- any matter of that
13 nature would have been critical to me in the sort of
14 business I was dealing. Certainly towards the end of my
15 service in the Force, I was leading young men on operations
16 on the border, both in Monaghan and in Dundalk, and all
17 over the country, and, certainly, matters like that I would
18 have focused very -- would have focused the mind very
19 quickly for me because I had a serious responsibility not
20 just to the State, to the security of the State and the
21 Garda Siochana, but to the staff under me, as well.
22 401 Q. Well, leaving aside the security matters, you had no
23 concern about Mr. Corrigan in relation to security matters,
24 but did his reputation precede him --
25 A. Yes.
26 402 Q. -- for other reasons?
27 A. Mr. Corrigan was -- there were lots of rumours about, that
28 Mr. Corrigan was never very forthcoming in the payment of
29 debts or in the discharge of his financial affairs and that
30 he was certainly dishonest with regard to those matters.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 86
1 Now, these were just discussions, but it was so common and
2 so widespread, I think, that Mr. Corrigan was generally
3 regarded as somebody who was not -- who was slow to pay his
4 debts.
5 403 Q. You heard about his kidnapping, obviously, by the IRA?
6 A. I did, yes.
7 404 Q. And it has been suggested by two former members of the
8 Gardaí, or ex-Commissioner at one stage, that they thought
9 it was like tripping around with illegal drink or payment
10 for illegal drink, which would suggest, reading between the
11 lines, there is a suggestion that Mr. Corrigan was perhaps
12 wheeling and dealing, or smuggling with the IRA?
13 A. Yes, and there was -- well, there was suggestions,
14 Chairman, that he was involved in smuggling, and certainly
15 then on the border where he was -- smuggling was a -- was
16 very common, and there is a culture all along the border of
17 smuggling. Now, smuggling with the IRA; I mean, the IRA
18 didn't control smuggling on the border any place, at any
19 stage in my lifetime. There was a culture along the
20 border, as there is in all land frontiers or countries
21 where there are land frontiers, of smuggling, and Northern
22 Ireland was no different.
23 405 Q. If Mr. Corrigan was, in fact, involved in any form of
24 smuggling, that would not be appropriate behaviour --
25 A. Absolutely.
26 406 Q. -- for a member of the Gardaí?
27 A. Absolutely, very inappropriate.
28 407 Q. Would that, in turn, lead to the sort of rumours that we
29 are hearing today, or the rumours we are dealing with, that
30 he was passing on information to the IRA?
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1 A. Well, it could, Chairman, but there seems to be people
2 making specific allegations, from what I know from my
3 private interviews with this Tribunal, there seems to be
4 people making specific allegations.
5 408 Q. Well, there was, for example, and I'll just run this by
6 you, there was intelligence provided by the RUC to the Cory
7 Tribunal that emanated from 1985 that specifically named
8 Mr. Corrigan as passing information to the Tribunal about
9 the movements of troops. Now, that, presumably, is a
10 matter that would have been very serious intelligence for
11 the RUC to receive, would you agree?
12 A. But what I find extraordinary is the value of that. I
13 mean, the movement of troops is an overt operation. Troops
14 moving on the border, everybody can see them. If you are
15 moving a unit of troops through south Armagh, every house,
16 every child going to school, can see the movement of
17 troops. I can't say that that could be critical
18 intelligence, that's so overt and open.
19 409 Q. No, actually, the point I am coming to, Mr. Maguire, is
20 that, obviously, one would assume that that was information
21 that affected the security of people in the North, so you
22 would assume that that would be passed on to the Gardaí?
23 A. Absolutely, absolutely, Chairman, if there was any
24 suggestion whatsoever of information that a member of the
25 Garda Siochana had, by virtue of his office or otherwise,
26 and that he was passing it on in circumstances that
27 endangered life or security of any State, certainly it
28 would be a very critical matter; I mean, it would be an act
29 of profound treachery.
30 410 Q. Now, moving on from that, if this information is passed on
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 88
1 to the Garda -- the Commissioner has indicated that they
2 never had sight of the original of this until, I think, the
3 year 2001, but that doesn't mean that the information
4 wasn't passed on between the Forces, I would assume?
5 A. Well, I don't know what now -- I am afraid I am lost,
6 Chairman, a little bit. The Commissioner had sight of
7 which?
8 411 Q. This would have been an opportunity, if that information
9 was passed on to the Gardaí, that would have been an
10 opportunity, for example, the Commissioner, or somebody in
11 charge, to look at this and dismiss it and say "that's
12 utter rubbish, we don't believe it," and maybe that's
13 exactly, in fact, what happened at the time. Subsequently,
14 then, in 1987, Bob Buchanan, we have heard evidence that
15 Bob Buchanan asked a close associate and friend of his,
16 Superintendent Tom Curran, to talk to the Commissioner
17 about a transfer of Owen Corrigan on the basis that there
18 was a perception that he was too close to the IRA. Now,
19 that, in itself, is a serious enough message to carry to
20 the Commissioner, wouldn't you agree?
21 A. Well, it would be a very, very serious allegation that
22 somebody was too close to the IRA. Now, of course, there
23 is another context that this really needs to be looked at
24 in, that Mr. Corrigan might be seen to be having contact
25 with the IRA and it might be in the discharge of his
26 official duties, too.
27 412 Q. That is so. But when this message was conveyed to the
28 Commissioner in Dublin, one would have thought, at that
29 stage of the proceedings, that the Commissioner would have
30 brought in Mr. Corrigan and said, "Look, I have received
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 89
1 this request. What is the story? What are we going to do
2 about it? Is there any basis for it?" And an
3 investigation at that point in time could have been carried
4 out into this suggestion that Mr. Corrigan was too close to
5 the IRA?
6 A. Well, I would think that when information like that is
7 received, or any information that's received, and
8 information is the life blood of security policing, that it
9 will be assessed against what's known, already known. It
10 will be looked at against the background -- looked at in a
11 background against other information. The individual would
12 have to be looked at. I mean, there are allegations that
13 are made willy-nilly about people, constantly coming to the
14 Garda Siochana about civilians, about politicians, about
15 all sorts of people, and if the guards were to act overtly
16 and immediately on some of them, it would certainly -- it
17 would certainly not be in the interest of the protection of
18 the person and their good name. The guards would certainly
19 be very slow to act on information that was not
20 substantiated in some way or coming from a credible source.
21 Your difficulty, always, with this type of information,
22 Chairman, is that when information like this comes,
23 sometimes it's so bare that it amounts to nothing than just
24 a bald allegation; there is no collateral and there is no
25 material to provide it or substantiate it. And when you
26 look at that in the light of the person against whom the
27 allegation is being made, and you have to have regard to
28 the person's right for their good name and their integrity,
29 you cannot just rush out and grab somebody and arrest them
30 and start an investigation; there has to be some collateral
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 90
1 for it. Normally, what happens is that somebody is asked
2 to look at this and it's investigated discreetly to see, as
3 far as possible, is there some substance in it or any
4 substance at all. If there is substance in it, then an
5 investigation will proceed. I mean, I have been involved
6 in investigations into guards myself who are on the IRA.
7 413 Q. We'll come to that in a minute. But there would be a
8 record of that, presumably, if, every time I raise the
9 question, or the Tribunal raises the question of the
10 significance of a message such as this from Bob Buchanan,
11 who subsequently was murdered, to the Commissioner, asking
12 that a member of the Gardaí be transferred. Now, that is
13 not a mission that Superintendent Tom Curran took lightly,
14 and there is no record of anybody investigating that, of
15 even a note taken of the message. The Tribunal is
16 constantly being faced with great surprise because the
17 chain of communication wasn't adhered to in the normal
18 fashion. There is no suggestion that Mr. Tom Curran is
19 inventing this, he is a man of the greatest probity, and I
20 would have expected that there would be a record somewhere
21 of the fact that this message had arrived, a request from
22 the RUC Border Superintendent to the Commissioner to look
23 into a transfer, and that, at that point in time, again,
24 Mr. Maguire, there was an opportunity for the Gardaí to
25 investigate the allegation made against Owen Corrigan?
26 A. Chairman, counsel has raised a number of issues, Chairman,
27 on that, the first one in relation to the records. I
28 presume Mr. Curran has a record himself of a matter of such
29 critical importance that was conveyed to him by a senior
30 officer from a foreign police force. Mr. Curran should
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 91
1 have a record of it, for a start. The second person who
2 should have a record of it is Mr. Curran's Chief
3 Superintendent whom he was working directly to. Any report
4 he made, there should be a copy of his report with his
5 Chief Superintendent to whom he was operating directly to.
6 The second point is that if Mr. Curran made a report to the
7 Garda Commissioner, that report should be available.
8 414 Q. Mr. Curran considered this very sensitive matter and went
9 personally from Monaghan to Headquarters to convey this
10 message. He did not keep a record of it. He conveyed it
11 to the Assistant Commissioner in charge of Crime and
12 Security at the time?
13 A. In writing?
14 415 Q. No, verbally, because that's what he was asked to do.
15 A. I find that astonishing.
16 416 Q. So you are equally dismissive of this?
17 A. Well, I am not dismissive, no.
18 417 Q. Of this message?
19 A. I am not dismissive of Mr. Curran, by any means. I believe
20 Mr. Curran is an honest, decent man who is a good police
21 officer, who certainly must have been very efficient to
22 rise to the rank he did. But I will say this: that I have
23 dealt with members of the Garda Siochana at all levels, and
24 the last time -- the last management role I had in the
25 Garda Siochana had over 500 people working for me, and all
26 communications to me and to my office and to those who were
27 working under me as line managers, all communications of
28 critical material was in writing. It has to be, Chairman,
29 that's the way we work, because if we don't keep records of
30 these changes, we know that there is nothing for posterity
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 92
1 to look at, and any of us could die tomorrow and bring this
2 information to the grave with us. Records are absolutely
3 essential and they are the life blood of a police force and
4 they are the way we do things. Chairman, it's important, I
5 think, for me to emphasise that point, Chairman. We do
6 things in writing in the Garda Siochana. And the records
7 are there, and, if they can be found, they are definitely
8 there in relation to anything. Some of the materials, this
9 board will be quite aware, that I would have created in the
10 1980s and 1990s, is before this board at the moment, the
11 written records.
12 418 Q. Yes.
13 A. They have been produced to me in private here. I haven't
14 seen them in 20 years, but they are there, Chairman. And
15 we do things in record, and particularly superintendents
16 and chief superintendents, we are sticklers for records,
17 and I have found that peculiar to the Force, because in
18 other places and in other experiences I have, I didn't find
19 that there was such a focus on record-keeping.
20 419 Q. So we are coming back to the same wall that I bang into all
21 the time, and that is the record-keeping procedure was
22 wrong, and, therefore, one is rather dismissive of
23 Mr. Curran's message which he tried to convey as tactfully
24 as possible?
25 A. Well, Chairman, there are some difficulties. I was here
26 for Mr. Conroy's evidence --
27 420 Q. Curran, sorry.
28 A. Well, I was here for Mr. Conroy's evidence this morning --
29 421 Q. Oh, I'm sorry.
30 A. -- and I know that Mr. Dillon pushed Mr. Conroy in great
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 93
1 detail in relation to Mr. Curran's communication. Now, I
2 would say, having heard what Mr. Conroy said, that
3 Mr. Conroy was absolutely correct in saying how this type
4 of information would pass. You see, since the Anglo Irish
5 Agreement, there were structures put in place between the
6 two Governments for cooperation between the police forces
7 and that was the first time that there were formal
8 structures in place. Now, that was about 1985, and those
9 structures made provision for officers at different levels
10 to meet for the purpose of the exchange of intelligence.
11 They met at Commissioner level, they met at Assistant
12 Commissioner level and they met at operational level, they
13 met at Superintendent and Chief Superintendent level. I
14 was at loads of those meetings myself, Chairman, and
15 critical matters of intelligence would be dealt with at
16 those meetings at that level, and there was always a paper
17 trail, and a paper trail was absolutely indispensable
18 because you had to try and mount an operation or an
19 investigation and you had to have something to base it on,
20 and I would say that that type of information -- now, I am
21 not, under any circumstances, saying that Mr. Curran misled
22 this Tribunal - far be it for me to say that; I still
23 believe he is an honest man - but it's quite unusual for
24 that type of information to pass in that haphazard,
25 unstructured and informal way. I mean, if we are talking
26 about a member of the Garda Siochana giving information to
27 the IRA, it's a very serious matter indeed and would be
28 looked at in a very serious way by an officer in the Garda
29 Siochana.
30 422 Q. The message was that he was perceived as being, I think,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 94
1 too close to the IRA, too close to the IRA. Now, can we
2 approach it from another point of view. As you said, if
3 there is no proof of wrongdoing, nothing can be done in the
4 Garda Siochana. Everything is worked on getting proof,
5 following it through and if you are going to charge
6 somebody, but if there is a dissatisfaction or a concern,
7 rightly or wrongly, about a member of the Force who is in a
8 very strategic and sensitive area on the border and there
9 is no proof of wrongdoing on the part of this man, there is
10 no tangible proof of anything untoward, but there is a
11 general concern, would you agree with me that that is
12 precisely the kind of information that is passed on person
13 to person?
14 A. Well, a matter of concern about being too close to the IRA,
15 I mean, I don't know what it means. There are many of us
16 who could have been seen in very unusual circumstances with
17 members of the IRA throughout our lifetime.
18 423 Q. You see, I am not criticising --
19 A. And would somebody say we were too close to the IRA because
20 we were there trying to discharge a critical State function
21 at the time...
22 424 Q. I understand that --
23 A. Without going into it in detail.
24 425 Q. The nature of the business requires that you have to
25 associate with members of the IRA?
26 A. We might have to make contact.
27 426 Q. Make contact, yes. But I assume there is a line over which
28 you don't cross, and, as a professional, you know where
29 that line is?
30 A. Absolutely, absolutely.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 95
1 427 Q. Yes. I think you were very central to the arrest and
2 prosecution of a member of the Gardaí --
3 A. I was, yes.
4 428 Q. -- who was actually prosecuted as a result of an
5 investigation you carried out into him?
6 A. Yes.
7 429 Q. And got a jail sentence as a result?
8 A. Yes.
9 430 Q. And perhaps you might tell us a little bit about that?
10 A. It was a member of the Garda Siochana in Munster who was
11 referred to here this morning, Garda Denis Kelly.
12 Information came to me that a member of the Garda Siochana
13 in Limerick was passing information to the IRA. He wasn't
14 identified. It took some time until we got his name and
15 identified who he was, and then, at that stage, we mounted
16 an operation and monitored his activities over a performed
17 time until sufficient evidence was available to arrest him
18 and charge him, and he was arrested and charged and
19 sentenced, I think he got nine years before the Special
20 Criminal Court, for a breach of the Official Secrets Act.
21 431 Q. Have you any idea why -- presumably, when you're sworn in
22 as a member of the Gardaí, you take an oath, and perhaps
23 you might repeat for us, if you know it off, the oath that
24 you take?
25 A. It's too many years ago now, Chairman, I am afraid.
26 432 Q. Indeed. It's to uphold the safety --
27 A. It's the duty, fidelity to the State and the Constitution
28 and things that are critical, things that are important to
29 all of us and that are indispensable to the survival of the
30 State.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 96
1 433 Q. And what do you think motivated a member of the Force like
2 this man to turn to subversives?
3 A. Mr. Kelly had subversive -- Mr. Kelly had sympathies
4 towards the republican movement and towards Sinn Fein for a
5 number of years, and towards the IRA.
6 434 Q. It wasn't anything to do with money; it was to do with his
7 own convictions?
8 A. No, no, Mr. Kelly was motivated by idealogical factors.
9 435 Q. A question that we have asked other members of the Force in
10 recent times, Mr. Maguire: If a member of the Force is
11 being adversely criticised on a wide-enough basis, what
12 steps can that person take within the Force itself to stamp
13 out rumours, to protect their reputation?
14 A. I mean, they have just -- there is no special machinery
15 available. I mean, the laws of the State and the
16 Defamation Act is there, and that's it, that's as far as
17 you can go, but there are quite -- there are lots of
18 instances of members of the Garda Siochana taking actions
19 in defamation in the superior courts.
20 436 Q. But within their own organisation, is there anything that
21 you can do?
22 A. There is very little, there is very little, indeed very
23 little, because I suppose malicious rumours can destroy
24 people. If you throw enough dirt, it will stick, and some
25 of it will stick and it can destroy reputations, and there
26 is no place it can happen so much as in the public service,
27 dirt can stick to a person in the public service and some
28 of it can remain there throughout their entire service,
29 which is quite unfortunate, and there is no --
30 unfortunately, there is no formal mechanism for -- there is
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 97
1 no formal mechanism for removing it off records.
2 437 Q. I think we heard from the last witness that Mr. Corrigan
3 was very disillusioned about the fact that he wasn't
4 promoted, but I think that he had applied for promotion at
5 one stage?
6 A. Yes. He was -- he would have applied for promotion on a
7 couple of occasions, but there was one occasion that I know
8 about, which I think was about 1982 or '83, when a
9 detective inspector list was compiled and Mr. Corrigan was
10 placed on that list as being certainly an applicant of very
11 high merit. On one of the -- certainly, some of the
12 feedback that I informally got from the interview board was
13 that he was somebody who was extremely effective and
14 efficient in his fight against subversion in the
15 Louth/Meath Division and that he was certainly providing
16 first-grade intelligence and head and shoulders above those
17 who were working in parallel with him and that he was the
18 most meritorious candidate and successful applicant.
19 438 Q. Did you know that, at the time of the murders, his transfer
20 was well in train? I think his transfer came through on
21 the 11th of April?
22 A. I didn't, Judge -- or, Chairman; I only knew that recently,
23 in fact, yeah, that he was being transferred, in fact, to
24 Harcourt Square.
25 439 Q. I think there was a suggestion yesterday by someone in
26 cross-examination to Mr. Egan, ex-Commissioner Egan, that
27 perhaps Mr. Crowley, who was then the Assistant
28 Commissioner of Crime and Security, had, in fact, taken on
29 board what Superintendent Curran had said to him and that
30 the transfer may have been as a result of that, but that
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 98
1 was two-and-a-half years later, so do you think that
2 that's --
3 A. Mr. Crowley was somebody I knew very well and Mr. Crowley
4 was a most dedicated, honest and thorough Garda officer.
5 440 Q. That's not disputed, Mr. Maguire.
6 A. And certainly, he would not have left matters resting for
7 two years.
8 441 Q. Do you think he might have called in Mr. Corrigan and had a
9 word with him, or is that the way it goes in the Force?
10 A. Well, Mr. Crowley would not be adverse to calling anybody
11 in. He called myself in on many occasions, and he
12 certainly would have called -- if Mr. Crowley felt it was
13 prudent to do so, he would call in Mr. Corrigan,
14 definitely.
15 442 Q. And it's also possible that he didn't believe the
16 information that he was being given?
17 A. Well, if the information was passed to him, it is also
18 possible that he didn't believe it. It is, of course.
19 443 Q. And would he -- would you expect him to take a note of
20 that, that --
21 A. Yes, Mr. Crowley was the most efficient notetaker I ever
22 knew of, and, in fact, many a time he caught me out myself
23 in relation to matters that were quite stale and he would
24 go back through his notebook and he'd find one line of
25 something that had happened three, four months ago.
26 Mr. Crowley was absolutely meticulous in relation to notes,
27 and I would certainly say Mr. Crowley's notes are still
28 available.
29 444 Q. Unfortunately, there is not a note of this particular
30 meeting, so that's not of assistance to us.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 99
1 Thank you very much, Mr. Maguire.
2 A. Thank you.
3
4 MR. McGUINNESS: No questions. I just wanted to correct
5 one matter, Chairman. Mrs. Laverty inadvertently stated
6 that the 1985 intelligence, the original hadn't been
7 produced to the Gardaí until 2001. In fact, it was January
8 2011 when the summary of that intelligence was first
9 produced to the Gardaí.
10
11 MRS. LAVERTY: I stand corrected, Chairman.
12
13 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN
14 AS FOLLOWS:
15
16 445 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Mr. Maguire, I appear for Mr. Corrigan.
17 I have a few short questions for you. First of all,
18 Mr. Maguire, were you aware, during the course of your work
19 in An Garda Siochana, whether or not Owen Corrigan provided
20 information that led to the arrest of known subversives in
21 the IRA?
22 A. Yes, Chairman. I remember Mr. Corrigan -- as a matter of
23 fact, Mr. Corrigan arrested Gerry Tuite, who was a
24 notorious -- well, now, I withdraw that word "notorious,"
25 but who was certainly, at that time, regarded by the UK
26 authorities as being the number one subversive in Ireland
27 and the biggest, and of a grave threat to their State.
28 Mr. Tuite was arrested in the United Kingdom and he was
29 charged with very serious crime and he was remanded in
30 custody, and during his period of remand, he escaped from
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 100
1 prison and he came back to Ireland, and, after a period in
2 Ireland, he was -- Mr. Corrigan found out where he was, in
3 Drogheda, I think, and Mr. Corrigan searched a house and
4 arrested Mr. Tuite, and Mr. Tuite was charged here under
5 the Explosive Substances Act and convicted in the Special
6 Criminal Court and got 12 years.
7 446 Q. And from your experience of working with Mr. Corrigan,
8 Mr. Maguire, did you ever think that he was passing
9 information to the IRA?
10 A. Chairman, I never worked on operations with Mr. Corrigan,
11 but what I said to this Tribunal already is that I never
12 got the slightest suggestion from any source within the
13 Garda Siochana or within the IRA, that Mr. Corrigan was
14 passing information.
15 447 Q. You mentioned how there were rumours about Mr. Corrigan,
16 and you are not the first witness to say that, but the
17 Garda Siochana, I am sure, is like many entities where
18 there are rumours about lots of people; would that be so,
19 Mr. Maguire?
20 A. Well, there are rumours about lots of people. I think the
21 peculiar rumour of Mr. Corrigan is that he wasn't very
22 forthcoming about paying his bills, and I think that became
23 a notorious reputation that he acquired.
24 448 Q. Was it a reputation for being tight with money, would that
25 be fair to say?
26 A. Well, I think it went a bit further than that. I mean, it
27 went as far as to saying that, you know, that he didn't pay
28 his bills and he didn't certainly discharge his
29 responsibilities, his financial responsibilities, in a
30 manner that would be appropriate to his position as a
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 101
1 member of the Garda Siochana.
2 449 Q. Thanks, Mr. Maguire.
3
4 MR. COFFEY: No questions.
5
6 MS. O'SULLIVAN: I just have a few questions Mr. Maguire.
7
8 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MS. O'SULLIVAN
9 AS FOLLOWS:
10
11 450 Q. MS. O'SULLIVAN: Good afternoon, Mr. Maguire. I appear for
12 Mr. Finbarr Hickey. I think you have already given
13 evidence that, as chief detective in charge of the Special
14 Detective Unit, you are someone who had a vast experience
15 of dealing with subversive crime over the 25 years that you
16 were in the Special Detective Unit?
17 A. Yes.
18 451 Q. And you would have been involved in prosecutions very
19 regularly in the Special Criminal Court?
20 A. Yes, I was, yes.
21 452 Q. And in the later years when you were Chief Superintendent,
22 you would have given evidence quite regularly in relation
23 to your belief as to whether individuals were members of
24 subversive organisations?
25 A. Yes, I have, yes.
26 453 Q. I think you have given evidence that you were involved in
27 the Denis Kelly investigation. I think we heard last week
28 from retired Assistant Commissioner McHugh that Mr.
29 Kelly -- or Garda Kelly, served his sentence in Portlaoise,
30 on the provisional wing, are you aware of that?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 102
1 A. That's correct, yes.
2 454 Q. What was the significance of him serving his sentence on
3 that wing?
4 A. Well, the significance of him serving the sentence is, I
5 suppose, that people -- at that time, people who were
6 convicted of crimes in relation to the IRA or subversive --
7 or the INLA or organisations that were regarded as a threat
8 to the security of the State, prescribed organisations, all
9 would serve their sentences in Portlaoise, unless that, for
10 some reason, which happened not very frequently, that the
11 leadership of the republican movement in Portlaoise refused
12 to accept them. And if they refused to accept them, in the
13 interest of prison harmony or prisoner harmony and in the
14 interests of security, they were quite often sent someplace
15 else.
16 455 Q. But, in general, the people who had subversive connections
17 would have served their sentence in Portlaoise Prison?
18 A. Almost, almost invariably.
19 456 Q. And I think you weren't involved in the passport
20 investigation involving my client, Mr. Hickey, although you
21 would have been aware of it?
22 A. Yes, I knew of it, I knew of it, and I knew -- I remember
23 when it broke, I was in Crime and Security dealing with
24 intelligence.
25 457 Q. And when he was sentenced, the Special Criminal Court
26 stated that he was somebody who had some serious personal
27 difficulties although no subversive connections, were you
28 aware of that?
29 A. No, I wasn't, Chairman, no.
30 458 Q. And he, in fact, served his sentence in the Curragh Prison?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 103
1 A. That's correct, yes.
2 MS. O'SULLIVAN: I have no further questions.
3
4 CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mrs. Laverty, do you want to
5 re-examine?
6
7 MRS. LAVERTY: No further questions.
8
9 CHAIRMAN: Very good. I am aware, Mr. Maguire, that you
10 had considerably -- we had to mess you around by
11 readjusting our schedule for today because of unforeseen
12 happenings, and you were put to considerable difficulties,
13 and I am very grateful to you for taking the trouble to
14 come here and I appreciate it very much.
15 A. I am privileged to be of assistance to the Tribunal,
16 Chairman.
17
18 MRS. LAVERTY: That conclude the evidence for today,
19 Chairman.
20
21 CHAIRMAN: Very well, we are -- we then have -- that's it
22 until eleven o'clock tomorrow morning, then.
23
24 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Sir, could I just say one thing, for the
25 record. Mrs. Laverty mentioned, when she was questioning
26 Mr. Maguire, that no one challenged Mr. Curran on his
27 account. I just wish to point out for the record that, in
28 fact, I did put it to Mr. Curran that, in fact, he didn't
29 go down to Eugene Crowley and tell him what Bob Buchanan
30 allegedly said, and he replied, "That's completely
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 104
1 incorrect," but I just wanted, for the record, for you to
2 be reminded, Chairman, that I did challenge him on it.
3
4 CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. I would have made a note
5 of that. So I'll bear that in mind. Thank you very much,
6 Mr. O'Callaghan. Now, that's it, I think. Thank you.
7
8 THE TRIBUNAL ADJOURNED UNTIL THE FOLLOWING DAY, FRIDAY THE
9 16TH OF SEPTEMBER, 2011, AT 11 A.M. 10
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Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 1
' 31:10, 46:6, 54:12, 62:28, 63:19, 102:12 67:28, 67:30, 68:25, 54:18 60:5, 76:18, 77:14, accepted [1] - 54:25 68:29, 69:24, 70:2, appointment [7] - 2:15, '68 [2] - 54:10, 55:5 81:24 access [2] - 56:25, 79:5 80:22, 87:11, 88:20, 2:20, 4:6, 4:7, 6:14, '69 [1] - 55:5 1990 [1] - 76:17 accompanied [3] - 29:4, 94:11 29:20, 60:26 '70s [5] - 57:4, 57:7, 1990s [2] - 77:21, 92:10 46:23, 55:8 agreeable [1] - 40:20 appreciate [7] - 7:18, 84:13, 84:16, 84:19 1991 [2] - 9:18, 10:5 account [8] - 17:26, Agreement [1] - 93:5 7:21, 16:2, 24:15, 57:8, '80s [3] - 57:7, 75:29, 1992 [3] - 31:20, 33:9, 18:24, 43:21, 62:22, air [1] - 1:13 81:9, 103:14 84:19 54:17 62:27, 63:25, 64:27, aired [1] - 40:29 apprise [1] - 43:6 '83 [1] - 97:8 1993 [1] - 73:26 103:27 Alan [3] - 10:13, 12:23, approach [2] - 37:16, '84 [1] - 55:13 1995 [1] - 10:5 accounts [3] - 32:6, 14:6 94:2 '88 [1] - 32:28 1996 [2] - 16:14, 16:15 43:15, 43:17 alarm [2] - 26:27, 27:16 approached [1] - 37:14 '89 [2] - 32:28, 46:10 1997 [1] - 73:27 accumulating [1] - 68:13 alive [1] - 36:24 appropriate [4] - 2:15, '93 [1] - 33:15 1998 [4] - 54:5, 54:13, acquired [4] - 63:9, allegation [18] - 8:15, 52:4, 86:24, 100:30 '94 [1] - 33:16 54:18, 73:27 75:12, 75:14, 100:23 13:26, 18:23, 18:25, appropriately [2] - 7:17, 'Bandit [3] - 10:16, 12:1, 1999 [1] - 12:4 acquiring [1] - 63:28 20:7, 21:13, 21:14, 8:12 12:12 acquisition [3] - 81:20, 27:25, 27:28, 28:2, April [2] - 13:29, 97:21 'command [1] - 25:4 2 81:21, 81:22 28:14, 29:27, 61:3, Ardee [1] - 54:10 'his [1] - 59:28 Act [3] - 95:20, 96:16, 88:21, 89:24, 89:27, area [15] - 7:22, 8:10, 'like [1] - 68:8 2 [3] - 10:7, 11:26, 29:22 100:5 90:25 9:17, 10:5, 18:16, 'Mooch' [2] - 29:8, 29:9 20 [2] - 29:24, 92:14 act [5] - 27:28, 39:16, allegations [16] - 9:15, 22:26, 23:9, 57:3, 'not [1] - 60:18 2000 [9] - 8:14, 10:2, 87:28, 89:15, 89:19 10:4, 11:29, 11:30, 60:20, 61:23, 71:29, 'remember [1] - 57:26 10:3, 10:7, 11:26, 14:8, action [5] - 24:17, 25:9, 12:8, 12:10, 52:17, 71:30, 72:3, 72:4, 94:8 'ringer' [2] - 82:18 73:28, 73:30, 75:5 25:10, 37:2, 40:21 52:21, 52:27, 52:30, areas [2] - 30:8, 34:12 2001 [3] - 74:1, 88:3, 99:7 'us' [1] - 31:27 actions [1] - 96:18 83:24, 85:2, 85:11, arena [1] - 8:16 2004 [1] - 16:17 active [1] - 37:3 87:2, 87:4, 89:12 Arklow [1] - 81:25 2006 [1] - 74:2 1 activities [11] - 10:29, alleged [9] - 9:25, 20:3, arm [1] - 77:6 2007 [1] - 62:20 32:7, 43:15, 43:18, 20:4, 24:24, 26:23, Armagh [16] - 9:17, 10:5, 1(b [1] - 14:10 2011 [3] - 1:1, 99:8, 104:9 43:21, 56:16, 56:27, 37:29, 38:15, 84:23, 10:30, 30:8, 56:19, 1(c) [1] - 14:10 20th [4] - 13:27, 14:2, 69:14, 79:17, 95:16 85:8 78:8, 78:11, 78:21, 10 [7] - 2:18, 2:19, 3:24, 28:10, 60:5 activity [5] - 76:29, 76:30, allegedly [3] - 48:16, 78:25, 78:27, 78:29, 4:9, 12:3, 13:23, 81:29 22nd [1] - 14:7 77:24, 78:3, 78:6 85:8, 103:30 79:1, 79:20, 80:14, 10:15 [1] - 2:17 23rd [2] - 13:30, 62:20 actual [1] - 39:1 allow [2] - 4:29, 57:14 87:15 11 [3] - 3:4, 4:20, 104:9 25 [3] - 73:19, 74:16, addition [1] - 10:25 almost [4] - 75:21, 84:21, Armagh' [2] - 12:1, 12:12 11th [1] - 97:21 101:15 address [2] - 14:10, 56:14 102:18 armaments [1] - 74:30 12 [3] - 77:1, 78:1, 100:6 25th [1] - 13:29 adhered [1] - 90:17 alone [1] - 38:23 Army [1] - 61:24 15 [1] - 81:29 26 [1] - 10:3 ADJOURNED [2] - 72:18, amazing [1] - 84:16 arose [2] - 20:25, 20:29 156 [1] - 12:13 27 [2] - 76:27, 77:30 104:8 ambush [2] - 12:16, 13:7 arranged [1] - 2:16 156-159 [1] - 12:2 admittedly [1] - 28:13 amount [4] - 13:26, arrangement [4] - 2:22, 157 [4] - 10:16, 12:18, 3 adopt [1] - 22:13 25:21, 39:20, 77:8 3:15, 4:21, 54:24 12:27, 12:30 advance [1] - 1:27 amounts [1] - 89:23 arrangements [2] - 3:22, 30 [4] - 66:3, 74:16, 79:6, 158 [1] - 13:4 advancing [1] - 10:19 amusing [1] - 58:10 81:16 79:12 159 [1] - 13:17 advantage [1] - 1:25 analysed [2] - 35:1, 40:3 arrest [5] - 45:12, 89:29, 15th [1] - 14:8 analysing [1] - 33:14 95:1, 95:17, 99:20 5 adverse [2] - 79:20, 98:10 15TH [1] - 1:1 adverse" [1] - 79:23 Anglo [1] - 93:4 arrested [4] - 95:18, 16TH [1] - 104:9 5 [1] - 22:20 adversely [1] - 96:11 annoyance [1] - 67:25 99:23, 99:28, 100:4 19 [1] - 10:2 50 [2] - 79:6, 79:12 advice [1] - 77:7 annoying [1] - 67:30 arrival [1] - 3:6 1960s [1] - 54:21 500 [1] - 91:25 advised [1] - 11:27 answer [4] - 1:16, 3:2, arrived [4] - 2:26, 29:21, 1963 [1] - 6:13 affairs [1] - 85:29 4:8, 80:12 60:27, 90:21 1968 [1] - 54:5 A affected [2] - 55:18, 87:21 anxious [2] - 4:7, 17:12 article [6] - 9:21, 9:25, 1970 [1] - 54:10 afraid [3] - 75:16, 88:5, apologies [3] - 16:18, 10:25, 12:2, 13:23, 1970s [1] - 54:21 A.M [1] - 104:9 95:25 23:6, 54:9 23:21 1971 [1] - 54:11 ability [4] - 42:25, 42:26, AFTER [1] - 73:1 apparatus [2] - 74:21, articles [1] - 18:6 1973 [1] - 55:13 64:20, 78:9 afternoon [8] - 39:11, 76:23 AS [15] - 1:2, 6:2, 32:21, 1974 [1] - 75:4 able [4] - 13:18, 55:12, 65:11, 72:12, 73:3, appear [8] - 39:11, 44:16, 39:9, 44:14, 47:10, 1978 [1] - 73:20 76:26, 77:17 73:5, 73:13, 73:14, 62:8, 65:11, 80:1, 47:25, 54:2, 62:6, 65:9, 1980s [2] - 77:20, 92:10 abroad [2] - 17:8, 78:24 101:11 84:17, 99:16, 101:11 71:23, 73:1, 73:11, 1982 [1] - 97:8 absolute [1] - 80:3 afterwards [2] - 54:15, appeared [2] - 2:18, 99:14, 101:9 1984 [1] - 73:29 absolutely [25] - 1:21, 76:12 30:16 ascertain [1] - 18:1 1985 [8] - 9:17, 13:27, 34:1, 36:17, 44:9, agencies [2] - 33:23, applicant [2] - 97:10, aside [8] - 16:1, 16:3, 24:23, 24:26, 87:7, 58:27, 61:10, 61:28, 33:27 97:18 25:9, 26:15, 30:29, 93:8, 99:6 63:5, 63:22, 63:26, agency [1] - 34:3 application [3] - 20:20, 56:29, 58:7, 85:22 1987 [2] - 13:30, 88:14 66:9, 67:27, 68:12, agents [1] - 55:7 40:26, 52:5 aspect [1] - 56:30 1988 [4] - 14:1, 73:25, 71:14, 83:10, 86:25, ago [5] - 18:9, 67:8, 79:3, applications [2] - 26:6, assembling [1] - 61:21 73:29 86:27, 87:23, 92:2, 95:25, 98:25 26:24 asserting [1] - 4:18 93:3, 93:17, 94:30, 1989 [20] - 6:17, 7:6, 9:19, agree [21] - 39:14, 42:5, applied [3] - 58:23, 97:4, assessed [1] - 89:9 13:24, 14:2, 14:7, 98:26 42:22, 65:17, 65:20, 97:6 asset [1] - 63:29 17:20, 18:22, 22:17, abuse [2] - 66:13, 66:14 65:26, 65:30, 67:12, appoint [1] - 15:14 assignments [1] - 6:14 28:11, 28:21, 31:9, accept [6] - 43:26, 61:11, 67:16, 67:20, 67:24, appointed [2] - 15:29, assist [4] - 19:9, 19:14,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 2
20:24, 47:1 B biggest [1] - 99:27 broad [2] - 5:4, 21:26 carried [13] - 18:23, 21:7, assistance [11] - 10:19, bills [2] - 100:22, 100:28 broke [1] - 102:23 24:10, 27:17, 42:19, 10:21, 11:7, 11:13, background [6] - 9:19, bit [7] - 19:26, 21:2, 49:6, broken [1] - 50:1 44:20, 46:9, 46:16, 28:15, 30:1, 30:2, 65:1, 19:25, 29:12, 47:15, 66:13, 88:6, 95:9, brought [6] - 7:16, 23:24, 76:13, 78:24, 83:7, 73:17, 98:30, 103:15 89:10, 89:11 100:26 24:28, 79:9, 79:11, 89:3, 95:5 Assistant [13] - 11:25, bad [2] - 22:24, 22:28 bite [9] - 16:29, 23:12, 88:30 carry [8] - 15:15, 15:29, 18:28, 18:29, 25:5, badly [1] - 19:22 32:25, 39:14, 40:18, browned [1] - 58:28 40:5, 46:29, 76:4, 25:6, 31:10, 31:12, BAKER [2] - 62:6, 62:8 41:26, 44:1, 51:18 Buchanan [12] - 9:7, 78:18, 78:22, 88:19 37:21, 49:22, 91:11, bald [1] - 89:24 black [1] - 67:9 11:4, 14:3, 37:15, carrying [4] - 18:27, 93:11, 97:27, 101:28 Bandit [2] - 10:27, 30:9 Blair [2] - 29:8, 29:9 48:18, 48:19, 49:13, 45:15, 47:2, 79:16 assisting [2] - 21:17, 29:7 bandwagon [1] - 56:21 block [2] - 6:29, 6:30 88:14, 88:15, 90:10, cars [7] - 64:6, 64:14, associate [2] - 88:15, bang [1] - 92:20 blocks [1] - 7:1 103:29 64:21, 64:26, 81:18, 94:25 Bar [2] - 73:28, 74:2 blood [2] - 89:8, 92:3 Buchanan's [1] - 13:6 81:22, 82:16 associated [4] - 26:7, bar [1] - 34:27 blown [1] - 77:6 build [1] - 25:23 case [14] - 10:24, 18:10, 26:26, 28:6, 29:13 bare [1] - 89:23 board [4] - 92:9, 92:10, building [3] - 7:22, 24:1, 21:10, 21:29, 24:2, assume [5] - 82:25, base [4] - 25:21, 25:22, 97:12, 97:29 25:20 24:5, 27:6, 51:29, 87:20, 87:22, 88:4, 35:15, 93:19 Bob [6] - 48:18, 48:19, buildings [2] - 6:27, 6:28 55:11, 62:10, 67:19, 94:27 based [18] - 6:21, 8:11, 88:14, 88:15, 90:10, burned [1] - 66:20 69:18, 71:28, 84:24 assumed [1] - 69:9 16:28, 23:9, 29:14, 103:29 burst [1] - 3:17 cases [2] - 24:7, 24:19 assuming [2] - 2:10, 29:15, 32:27, 32:29, body [2] - 33:19, 45:5 business [8] - 48:22, Castle [1] - 83:29 59:26 34:24, 58:4, 58:16, bomb [1] - 77:6 56:1, 56:22, 56:24, catch [1] - 21:24 assure [2] - 38:8, 40:19 65:20, 65:26, 66:19, bombings [1] - 78:25 57:6, 70:22, 85:14, caught [2] - 79:28, 98:22 assured [1] - 59:7 68:18, 68:30, 69:13 bones [1] - 31:24 94:24 CB [1] - 12:30 astonishing [1] - 91:15 basis [14] - 8:29, 11:29, book [6] - 10:16, 10:26, BY [13] - 6:1, 32:21, 39:8, CDU [1] - 38:17 astute [1] - 30:4 20:6, 20:7, 34:2, 35:6, 11:2, 11:10, 13:17, 30:9 44:14, 47:9, 47:25, Cecily [1] - 13:30 AT [1] - 104:9 38:12, 44:28, 45:14, books [2] - 18:5, 18:7 54:1, 62:6, 65:9, 71:23, Central [6] - 6:22, 7:15, attached [2] - 14:9, 52:28 45:17, 68:2, 88:17, border [22] - 9:17, 10:5, 73:10, 99:13, 101:8 16:29, 32:27, 33:6, attempts [2] - 39:25, 89:2, 96:11 19:28, 48:24, 54:22, Byrne [3] - 8:26, 15:11, 52:28 39:29 batch [2] - 75:19, 75:22 54:27, 56:15, 56:20, 16:8 central [1] - 95:1 attend [1] - 3:16 battle [1] - 55:25 60:20, 66:1, 66:4, certain [8] - 9:7, 12:15, attention [3] - 23:21, bear [2] - 9:3, 104:5 70:26, 77:1, 78:6, 82:1, C 25:21, 25:24, 30:15, 24:29, 25:26 Bear [1] - 13:29 85:16, 86:15, 86:16, 30:17, 39:20, 45:15 cache [1] - 30:20 attire [1] - 55:1 bearing [4] - 19:7, 28:2, 86:18, 86:20, 87:14, certainly [34] - 41:13, calibre [1] - 40:4 attitude [1] - 84:26 52:25, 64:12 94:8 62:22, 71:3, 74:16, Camon [19] - 9:1, 10:6, attracted [1] - 44:2 beaten [2] - 19:22, 43:11 Border [1] - 90:22 75:4, 75:5, 75:7, 75:23, 11:27, 11:28, 15:4, attributes [1] - 64:1 became [8] - 39:28, borrowed [1] - 78:21 76:18, 76:24, 78:5, 15:8, 15:15, 17:30, au [1] - 63:12 39:30, 56:22, 73:24, bought [1] - 20:21 79:27, 79:28, 83:2, 26:4, 27:20, 28:23, audit [1] - 27:17 73:26, 73:27, 84:19, bounced [1] - 8:15 84:11, 84:16, 84:18, 28:28, 44:19, 45:27, August [2] - 10:7, 11:26 100:22 bow [1] - 74:10 85:14, 85:17, 85:30, 45:29, 46:13, 46:22, author [4] - 12:14, 28:30, become [1] - 16:16 Branch [19] - 7:16, 11:25, 86:14, 87:27, 89:16, 46:27, 47:13 29:6, 30:9 BEEN [3] - 6:1, 54:1, 12:28, 13:13, 13:18, 89:17, 89:18, 91:21, Camon's [2] - 9:12, 15:6 authorities [2] - 84:20, 73:10 22:27, 22:29, 31:7, 97:10, 97:11, 97:15, campaign [1] - 43:24 99:26 beer [2] - 70:25, 71:1 31:9, 31:20, 31:22, 98:6, 98:12, 98:27, Canada [1] - 33:26 99:25, 100:28 authors [3] - 18:1, 18:19, beg [2] - 16:18, 54:14 34:30, 37:16, 37:28, candidate [1] - 97:18 18:21 began [1] - 70:23 49:12, 49:21, 49:30, certificates [3] - 24:12, cannot [13] - 18:18, 24:16, 24:18 available [9] - 32:13, begin [1] - 6:17 73:19, 77:14 20:14, 28:5, 29:16, 75:15, 76:1, 79:13, behalf [3] - 27:29, 41:1, branch [1] - 46:25 cetera [1] - 41:16 30:15, 39:3, 46:20, 82:1, 91:7, 95:17, 44:16 breach [1] - 95:20 chain [4] - 37:27, 48:12, 49:17, 49:26, 51:4, 96:15, 98:28 behaviour [1] - 86:24 Breen [6] - 9:7, 11:3, 48:14, 90:17 51:12, 89:29 avenues [1] - 32:10 Belfast [1] - 37:16 12:19, 14:2, 30:20, Chair [1] - 80:8 capabilities [1] - 64:19 avoid [4] - 1:24, 41:19, belief [1] - 101:23 48:17 CHAIRMAN [28] - 1:4, capable [4] - 45:1, 45:19, 61:22, 68:6 beliefs [1] - 55:24 Breen's [3] - 10:14, 2:2, 2:8, 2:25, 3:6, 3:27, 45:20, 45:23 aware [37] - 8:14, 12:22, bell [1] - 26:27 30:11, 31:18 4:12, 4:28, 6:4, 41:9, capacity [6] - 62:28, 63:1, 12:25, 14:19, 14:22, bells [1] - 27:16 brief [4] - 20:10, 52:10, 41:23, 47:5, 47:21, 63:4, 77:21, 78:18, 18:11, 18:15, 19:21, below [1] - 12:8 52:14, 71:21 52:3, 53:4, 70:19, 80:14 70:29, 71:19, 72:6, 23:26, 26:8, 26:25, bespeaks [1] - 55:3 briefed [6] - 15:8, 44:24, caption [1] - 9:30 72:15, 73:3, 73:8, 29:18, 31:30, 32:5, best [5] - 15:29, 17:13, 44:27, 44:30, 45:18, car [4] - 19:27, 56:12, 32:9, 43:2, 43:11, 20:30, 21:1, 53:1 45:26 73:13, 74:8, 103:4, 60:22, 66:7 103:9, 103:21, 104:4 51:23, 52:19, 52:23, better [1] - 2:17 briefing [2] - 20:8, 38:21 care [2] - 13:7, 35:30 Chairman [122] - 2:13, 52:29, 60:21, 60:25, between [13] - 8:18, 10:5, briefings [5] - 20:3, career [14] - 6:9, 6:13, 66:15, 66:20, 71:6, 11:29, 36:3, 36:21, 26:22, 27:19, 31:20, 3:4, 3:13, 4:17, 6:6, 23:26, 46:1, 47:16, 71:30, 72:2, 72:11, 36:25, 55:4, 64:26, 31:23 6:16, 7:3, 7:20, 8:27, 54:4, 54:20, 62:10, 9:23, 11:5, 11:8, 11:11, 77:3, 80:8, 92:9, 99:18, 79:6, 86:10, 88:4, 93:5, briefly [1] - 73:17 63:11, 73:17, 74:1, 12:24, 15:1, 15:10, 101:30, 102:21, 102:28, 93:6 bring [4] - 34:9, 34:11, 74:14, 83:1, 83:6 16:23, 17:4, 17:16, 103:9 beyond [1] - 5:5 38:12, 92:1 careful [3] - 35:9, 35:12, 17:19, 19:2, 20:24, big [4] - 17:26, 57:6, bringing [2] - 27:7, 56:14 79:26 21:18, 21:21, 21:23, 76:21, 76:23 brings [1] - 28:10 Carlingford [1] - 54:10 22:6, 22:15, 23:14, bigger [2] - 56:21, 56:22 British [1] - 61:24
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 3
24:14, 24:22, 26:3, chosen [3] - 9:30, 23:15, coming [18] - 6:4, 17:20, 94:6, 94:11, 94:14 11:13, 33:26, 41:28, 26:12, 26:14, 26:19, 42:10 20:3, 25:13, 30:28, concerned [2] - 12:20, 63:18, 88:24, 94:26, 27:14, 28:1, 29:1, CID [2] - 11:22, 14:17 34:23, 35:3, 35:25, 34:8 94:27 31:26, 31:28, 32:1, circle [1] - 8:8 35:27, 38:29, 53:5, concerning [2] - 9:16, contacted [4] - 13:10, 32:4, 33:7, 33:10, circulating [1] - 32:6 57:8, 76:20, 85:10, 10:3 40:7, 41:25, 41:28 36:20, 39:17, 40:7, circumstances [9] - 7:11, 87:19, 89:13, 89:20, concerns [2] - 39:4, content [3] - 50:3, 50:22, 40:10, 40:17, 40:24, 16:24, 19:25, 21:29, 92:20 83:20 50:23 41:3, 41:7, 42:13, 44:7, 80:27, 87:26, command [5] - 25:3, concession [1] - 40:30 contents [1] - 50:19 42:17, 42:20, 42:26, 93:21, 94:16 37:27, 37:30, 48:12, conciliatory [1] - 41:20 context [6] - 16:24, 43:20, 44:28, 47:23, cities [1] - 34:27 48:14 conclude [2] - 44:5, 63:27, 63:28, 74:6, 50:4, 50:29, 53:8, citizen [1] - 32:11 commander [1] - 36:29 103:18 83:22, 88:23 53:12, 55:12, 55:17, civilian [2] - 55:1, 61:23 commence [1] - 25:12 concluded [1] - 13:5 continue [1] - 52:4 57:18, 58:22, 66:23, civilians [1] - 89:14 commenced [1] - 80:5 concludes [1] - 14:5 continued [1] - 37:23 66:30, 67:6, 68:22, clarify [1] - 51:25 commencing [1] - 73:20 conclusion [3] - 7:25, CONTINUED [1] - 73:1 69:25, 71:10, 71:21, clarity [1] - 4:24 comment [1] - 76:26 8:21 continues [1] - 22:28 72:9, 73:5, 73:14, 74:3, class [7] - 36:23, 59:19, comments [4] - 7:30, concrete [1] - 83:25 control [4] - 4:14, 4:18, 74:6, 74:11, 74:15, 63:16, 65:14, 65:18, 67:11, 68:7, 68:30 conduct [4] - 19:1, 19:4, 5:5, 86:18 74:21, 75:11, 75:30, 65:22, 69:13 commercial [3] - 75:20, 21:3, 32:6 controversy [1] - 84:20 76:17, 76:22, 77:3, clear [5] - 1:13, 7:29, 75:23, 75:27 conducted [1] - 26:3 convention [1] - 9:5 78:11, 80:6, 80:23, 18:4, 20:15, 27:20 commission [3] - 35:23, conducting [1] - 55:8 conversation [2] - 59:5, 81:9, 81:18, 82:6, 82:8, clearly [3] - 17:12, 17:13, 82:4, 85:9 confided [1] - 12:19 59:9 82:12, 82:17, 83:28, 27:2 Commissioner [48] - 1:8, confidence [1] - 23:1 convey [4] - 49:7, 49:14, 84:2, 85:12, 86:14, clever [1] - 30:4 2:14, 4:14, 6:10, 6:15, confidential [2] - 21:27, 91:9, 92:23 87:1, 87:23, 88:6, client [10] - 41:4, 44:25, 8:22, 8:25, 14:15, 35:6 conveyed [4] - 49:13, 89:22, 90:26, 91:28, 51:21, 51:27, 51:28, 15:11, 15:12, 15:16, confirm [1] - 40:17 88:27, 90:29, 91:10 92:4, 92:5, 92:14, 66:23, 70:6, 70:9, 15:17, 15:21, 15:22, confirmed [1] - 13:10 convicted [4] - 24:20, 92:25, 93:14, 95:25, 71:12, 102:20 16:8, 16:14, 16:16, conjunction [1] - 83:7 26:11, 100:5, 102:6 97:22, 99:5, 99:11, client's [2] - 40:28, 69:10 18:28, 18:30, 25:6, connections [2] - 102:16, convictions [1] - 96:7 99:22, 100:10, 102:29, clinical [1] - 30:4 25:7, 31:10, 31:12, 102:27 cooperation [7] - 33:29, 103:16, 103:19, 104:2 close [11] - 55:30, 56:2, 37:1, 37:21, 38:17, Connolly [4] - 22:5, 22:7, 36:22, 36:24, 36:27, Chairman.. [1] - 40:22 56:6, 88:15, 88:18, 41:12, 49:23, 50:7, 31:27, 83:17 36:28, 55:4, 93:6 challenge [1] - 104:2 50:10, 86:8, 88:1, 88:6, 88:22, 89:4, 94:1, Conroy [28] - 2:13, 2:17, copies [1] - 14:8 challenged [1] - 103:26 94:14, 94:19 88:10, 88:16, 88:20, 2:18, 3:16, 3:19, 3:21, copy [3] - 10:11, 22:17, chance [1] - 79:25 closed [2] - 40:26, 81:11 88:28, 88:29, 90:11, 3:22, 5:6, 6:4, 6:8, 91:4 chances [1] - 79:24 closer [1] - 60:20 90:22, 91:7, 91:11, 14:16, 27:26, 32:23, corner [1] - 57:8 changes [1] - 91:30 clothed [1] - 45:6 93:11, 93:12, 97:26, 39:11, 39:27, 40:16, correct [53] - 6:12, 8:27, character [1] - 58:11 97:28, 101:28 co [2] - 28:30, 29:6 40:29, 42:28, 43:6, 9:14, 9:20, 10:28, 11:1, charge [9] - 15:14, 22:27, Commissioner's [1] - Co [4] - 9:17, 10:5, 56:19 44:16, 47:3, 51:24, 11:5, 11:8, 11:11, 15:1, 23:11, 31:21, 88:11, 4:23 co-author [2] - 28:30, 52:3, 52:8, 53:4, 92:30, 15:13, 17:4, 19:2, 91:11, 94:5, 95:18, 29:6 Commissioners [1] - 93:2, 93:3 21:18, 21:21, 23:20, 101:13 49:24 code [3] - 27:5, 27:8, CONROY [1] - 6:1 24:14, 26:1, 26:12, charged [4] - 24:20, committed [2] - 35:11, 27:11 conroy [1] - 51:25 28:1, 31:15, 33:6, 33:7, 95:18, 99:29, 100:4 35:14 COFFEY [4] - 44:14, Conroy's [3] - 4:8, 92:26, 33:10, 34:16, 41:27, charges [1] - 27:7 44:16, 71:17, 101:4 common [2] - 86:1, 86:16 92:28 42:2, 42:9, 42:12, charm [4] - 59:18, 62:26, communicate [1] - 76:4 collateral [2] - 89:24, conscious [3] - 64:16, 42:13, 42:30, 44:6, 63:24, 63:27 89:30 communicated [1] - 78:16, 79:27 44:21, 44:22, 44:26, check [1] - 82:15 75:28 colleague [1] - 58:8 consent [3] - 40:28, 44:29, 46:8, 51:17, check-points [1] - 82:15 communication [2] - colleagues [5] - 7:21, 9:1, 40:30, 51:20 52:13, 54:19, 54:23, checked [1] - 35:1 90:17, 93:1 22:25, 60:12, 66:16 considerable [3] - 42:24, 62:12, 62:18, 62:21, checkpoint [1] - 82:26 communications [4] - collected [1] - 82:22 77:8, 103:12 68:16, 70:12, 73:21, chief [5] - 4:2, 15:3, 70:5, 76:15, 77:9, 91:26, collecting [1] - 24:1 considerably [2] - 60:12, 76:20, 84:9, 93:3, 99:4, 92:16, 101:13 91:27 102:1, 103:1 collection [1] - 17:2 103:10 Chief [38] - 8:30, 10:6, compensation [3] - corrected [1] - 99:11 College [1] - 74:1 consideration [3] - 45:29, 10:12, 10:14, 11:3, 20:18, 20:21, 20:27 correctly [2] - 34:13, 43:1 colloquialism [1] - 17:5 46:1, 46:5 11:25, 14:2, 14:6, compiled [1] - 97:9 correspond [1] - 9:1 colluded [1] - 71:12 considered [1] - 91:8 14:14, 15:4, 17:29, complaint [2] - 42:18, correspondence [5] - collusion [16] - 8:15, considering [2] - 25:10, 25:6, 27:19, 28:22, 48:8 9:16, 9:26, 10:4, 11:29, 57:19 11:15, 11:17, 11:19, 28:26, 29:20, 34:29, completed [1] - 73:30 13:26, 14:12, 14:29, consistent [1] - 77:18 15:2, 15:23 38:6, 38:10, 44:19, completely [2] - 37:24, 29:27, 61:3, 61:5, 61:8, Constable [7] - 11:25, Corrigan [94] - 16:20, 45:3, 45:27, 45:28, 61:12, 61:13, 61:15, 103:30 13:28, 13:29, 14:15, 16:22, 19:20, 20:16, 46:13, 46:19, 46:21, 64:30 compound [2] - 81:25, 25:6, 46:19 21:14, 22:24, 23:7, 46:27, 47:13, 48:7, 81:30 24:25, 32:6, 32:9, Colton [10] - 26:18, constant [1] - 59:5 48:16, 49:3, 49:20, compounded [1] - 81:23 32:25, 33:2, 37:18, 26:20, 27:23, 28:11, constantly [3] - 70:26, 73:28, 76:28, 91:2, 44:17, 44:25, 45:1, concealed [1] - 80:29 89:13, 90:16 37:19, 39:12, 40:7, 91:5, 93:13, 101:21 40:13, 40:15, 41:1, 45:19, 45:30, 57:23 concern [13] - 40:19, Constitution [1] - 95:27 child [1] - 87:16 51:28, 83:13, 83:15, 41:13, 41:25, 41:30, combatting [4] - 58:12, consultation [1] - 3:18 choose [2] - 42:4, 52:26 42:10, 42:14, 42:22, 63:10, 63:21, 63:28 83:19, 83:22, 83:26, consulting [1] - 3:29 choosing [1] - 42:22 84:3, 84:25, 85:23, 42:27, 43:2, 43:15, combined [1] - 64:21 contact [8] - 10:21,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 4
43:17, 43:20, 43:23, created [2] - 30:27, 92:9 93:21, 97:29, 103:26, demand [1] - 56:2 42:27, 43:14, 51:28, 44:5, 52:1, 52:26, creator [1] - 24:17 103:28 demonstrations [1] - 52:6, 62:24, 66:5, 69:9, 57:29, 57:30, 58:2, credible [2] - 25:14, Curran's [3] - 91:2, 92:23, 66:12 92:30 58:5, 58:8, 58:10, 89:20 93:1 denigrated [1] - 32:13 DILLON [18] - 1:6, 5:3, 58:23, 58:26, 59:10, crime [29] - 6:22, 17:10, custody [1] - 99:30 Denis [3] - 21:15, 95:11, 6:1, 6:8, 23:6, 40:24, 62:15, 62:25, 63:13, 19:13, 21:9, 33:5, cut [1] - 84:24 101:27 41:7, 47:23, 47:25, 63:25, 64:4, 65:12, 33:12, 33:14, 33:15, department [1] - 75:3 47:27, 52:8, 53:12, 65:13, 65:21, 65:27, 35:11, 35:14, 35:20, D Deputy [6] - 14:14, 14:15, 54:2, 54:4, 71:21, 67:9, 67:12, 67:16, 35:23, 35:24, 38:19, 15:12, 25:7, 46:19, 71:23, 71:25, 72:9 67:20, 67:24, 68:17, 45:9, 46:26, 52:29, D/C/Superintendent [1] - 49:23 diminished [1] - 84:21 11:28 69:13, 70:13, 71:25, 54:21, 58:15, 58:19, derogatory [1] - 66:28 direct [8] - 44:17, 44:23, D/Sergeant [1] - 22:24 84:9, 84:10, 84:25, 63:10, 63:11, 63:21, DES [1] - 54:1 46:15, 62:15, 65:21, danger [1] - 35:7 84:29, 85:3, 85:23, 63:28, 73:24, 85:10, Des [2] - 1:9, 53:12 66:5, 68:14, 69:8 dangerous [2] - 40:9, 85:27, 85:28, 86:2, 99:29, 101:15 describe [2] - 67:6, 78:28 direction [1] - 23:13 86:11, 86:23, 87:8, 43:9 Crime [14] - 7:16, 11:25, described [4] - 30:8, directions [1] - 3:19 88:17, 88:24, 88:30, 15:14, 31:7, 31:9, date [3] - 32:25, 51:29, 38:25, 38:26, 62:30 directly [2] - 91:3, 91:5 89:4, 90:25, 97:2, 97:9, 84:14 31:19, 31:22, 33:8, describing [1] - 62:25 dirt [2] - 96:24, 96:27 98:8, 98:13, 99:16, dated [2] - 14:7, 14:8 33:11, 34:30, 36:19, despite [1] - 77:7 disadvantage [1] - 77:26 99:19, 99:22, 99:23, David [2] - 13:29, 14:1 91:11, 97:28, 102:23 destroy [2] - 96:23, 96:25 disagree [1] - 63:17 100:2, 100:3, 100:7, DAY [1] - 104:8 crimes [3] - 19:13, 28:27, detail [6] - 13:24, 38:22, disbelieve [1] - 23:11 100:10, 100:13, 100:15, days [6] - 13:5, 39:24, 102:6 42:15, 76:11, 93:1, discharge [4] - 85:29, 100:21 Criminal [5] - 34:24, 54:25, 58:9, 58:14, 94:23 88:25, 94:20, 100:28 Corrigan's [4] - 40:20, 80:20 95:20, 100:6, 101:19, detailed [1] - 46:9 disciplinary [3] - 27:5, 52:10, 68:7, 69:4 dead [1] - 82:20 102:25 details [2] - 40:17, 56:11 27:8, 27:11 corroborate [2] - 35:17, deal [9] - 13:23, 17:12, criminal [4] - 27:7, 35:20, detecting [1] - 74:26 discipline [1] - 21:10 36:10 39:15, 65:18 33:23, 34:21, 37:5, Detective [42] - 6:22, 7:3, discount [1] - 64:29 Cory [1] - 87:6 40:26, 48:26, 51:21, criminals [5] - 34:22, 7:15, 8:30, 10:12, 15:3, discovered [1] - 76:11 counsel [12] - 2:21, 2:23, 52:10 34:23, 35:3, 35:4, 58:20 16:29, 17:29, 22:4, discreetly [1] - 90:2 2:28, 3:1, 3:10, 3:15, dealing [14] - 6:22, 6:28, Crinnigan [1] - 40:4 22:27, 22:29, 27:19, discuss [2] - 1:26, 58:24 4:1, 4:13, 4:23, 4:25, 8:12, 21:4, 27:24, critical [8] - 85:13, 87:17, 28:22, 28:25, 28:26, discussed [9] - 15:16, 41:4, 90:26 40:24, 58:18, 74:12, 87:28, 90:29, 91:28, 29:4, 32:27, 33:1, 33:6, 15:18, 15:28, 25:3, counter [1] - 75:16 80:2, 85:14, 86:12, 93:15, 94:20, 95:28 37:18, 45:3, 46:13, 37:12, 38:1, 38:2, 38:3, counterband [1] - 34:12 86:29, 101:15, 102:23 criticised [1] - 96:11 46:21, 46:23, 46:28, 38:4 countermanded [1] - dealings [8] - 16:27, criticising [1] - 94:18 47:13, 52:10, 52:28, discussion [6] - 7:11, 2:29 criticism [2] - 4:23, 42:18 29:11, 36:18, 52:18, 54:8, 54:9, 54:18, 8:9, 32:2, 39:2, 39:3, 55:14, 65:26, 82:30, countries [1] - 86:20 CROSS [8] - 32:21, 39:8, 58:15, 65:11, 71:28, 60:15 country [5] - 17:18, 83:3 44:14, 47:9, 62:6, 65:9, 72:2, 73:20, 73:25, discussions [3] - 7:13, 34:26, 34:27, 81:19, 99:13, 101:8 deals [2] - 11:2, 33:11 73:26, 73:27, 84:2, 15:10, 86:1 85:17 dealt [14] - 1:28, 7:17, cross [2] - 94:28, 97:26 101:14, 101:16 dishonest [1] - 85:30 Country [4] - 10:27, 12:1, 7:22, 10:29, 24:8, 27:8, cross-examination [1] - detective [4] - 14:6, disillusioned [1] - 97:3 12:12, 30:9 33:13, 34:23, 49:30, 97:26 73:22, 97:9, 101:13 dismiss [1] - 88:11 Country' [1] - 10:16 52:28, 81:10, 81:11, CROSS-EXAMINED [8] - detectives [1] - 45:6 dismissed [1] - 23:27 country's [1] - 39:16 91:23, 93:15 32:21, 39:8, 44:14, determined [2] - 24:12, dismissive [4] - 91:16, debts [2] - 85:29, 86:4 County [1] - 17:3 47:9, 62:6, 65:9, 99:13, 24:16 91:17, 91:19, 92:22 couple [3] - 39:12, 62:9, debugging [1] - 74:25 101:8 detonator [3] - 75:20, display [1] - 67:5 97:7 deceased [7] - 9:6, 24:10, Crowley [22] - 37:21, 75:25, 75:26 displayed [2] - 51:28, 24:15, 28:28, 30:27, courage [4] - 42:26, 37:22, 37:23, 37:25, detonators [6] - 74:29, 58:19 43:28, 43:29, 44:2 50:7, 76:29 38:5, 38:9, 38:16, 75:17, 75:18, 75:19, dispute [1] - 43:22 courageous [1] - 56:7 deceased's [1] - 24:20 38:30, 47:29, 48:13, 75:22 disputed [1] - 98:5 course [28] - 2:13, 6:17, 50:4, 50:10, 50:14, decent [2] - 55:24, 91:20 developed [2] - 75:12, dissatisfaction [1] - 94:6 9:24, 27:26, 28:6, 97:27, 98:3, 98:10, decision [1] - 52:25 77:21 distance [2] - 76:6 31:27, 32:5, 35:20, 98:12, 98:21, 98:26, dedicated [2] - 83:11, developing [2] - 75:1, distinction [1] - 77:5 36:8, 40:20, 41:12, 103:29 98:4 75:25 distinguished [4] - 1:7, 42:21, 44:17, 44:23, Crowley's [1] - 98:27 deeply [1] - 56:26 die [1] - 92:1 1:9, 2:14, 6:8 44:28, 46:12, 49:24, crudely [1] - 82:19 Defamation [1] - 96:16 different [10] - 6:26, 6:27, district [1] - 34:25 52:10, 66:11, 69:27, crux [1] - 12:6 defamation [1] - 96:19 6:28, 27:1, 27:15, District [1] - 24:21 75:24, 76:1, 79:7, culture [2] - 86:16, 86:19 definite [1] - 15:10 28:15, 31:21, 37:11, division [3] - 19:4, 34:30, 82:30, 83:3, 88:22, definitely [11] - 8:11, Cummins [1] - 2:28 86:22, 93:9 38:6 98:18, 99:18 Cummins' [1] - 2:16 15:8, 15:18, 24:28, differently [1] - 5:1 Division [1] - 97:15 court [2] - 24:19, 24:20 Curragh [1] - 102:30 35:6, 37:10, 38:2, difficult [5] - 38:21, divisional [1] - 34:28 Court [5] - 24:21, 95:20, Curran [27] - 37:14, 43:25, 64:4, 92:7, 98:14 55:13, 56:9, 65:30, 66:3 divisions [2] - 34:26 100:6, 101:19, 102:25 37:17, 37:20, 38:26, delay [1] - 1:28 difficulties [7] - 1:24, divulge [1] - 28:8 courtesy [1] - 2:26 47:28, 48:1, 49:3, 49:7, delaying [1] - 4:20 30:5, 30:6, 81:6, 92:25, Doak [1] - 13:28 courts [4] - 24:8, 32:13, 49:14, 50:3, 50:6, deleted [1] - 10:10 102:27, 103:12 document [2] - 15:5, 34:11, 96:19 50:16, 50:29, 88:16, deliver [1] - 42:7 difficulty [5] - 1:17, 1:22, 22:18 coverage [4] - 17:17, 90:13, 90:18, 90:28, delivered [2] - 50:15, 41:19, 83:9, 89:21 documentation [2] - 18:5, 18:7, 18:8 90:30, 91:6, 91:8, 50:16 Dillon [14] - 2:5, 2:12, 14:12, 46:18 covered [2] - 9:24, 52:5 91:19, 91:20, 92:27, delivery [1] - 71:1 3:17, 3:24, 4:10, 4:22, documented [1] - 20:12
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 5 domain [1] - 10:13 easily [2] - 17:21, 68:27 essentially [3] - 10:29, exists [1] - 14:11 69:20, 98:12 domestic [1] - 34:18 East [1] - 81:28 13:25, 37:22 expect [9] - 25:1, 25:2, few [4] - 32:23, 80:20, Dominic [1] - 66:26 easy [3] - 38:20, 64:17, establish [3] - 12:6, 37:4, 48:25, 48:26, 99:17, 101:6 done [6] - 21:22, 22:3, 64:24 19:15, 35:21 56:8, 61:25, 62:1, 98:19 fiddle [1] - 4:13 27:18, 34:2, 50:1, 94:3 eavesdropping [3] - established [1] - 55:19 expected [1] - 90:20 fidelity [3] - 84:27, 84:28, Double [1] - 17:22 74:24, 74:27, 75:16 estate [2] - 67:4, 67:5 experience [8] - 65:20, 95:27 doubt [9] - 1:9, 4:5, 4:26, echo [1] - 50:11 estates [1] - 70:11 65:21, 74:10, 74:12, field [3] - 36:1, 36:14, 15:9, 30:27, 45:27, Edenappa [1] - 29:23 estimation [1] - 65:14 81:5, 84:14, 100:7, 79:9 48:6, 63:15, 77:20 effect [5] - 14:28, 44:30, et [1] - 41:16 101:14 fifteen [1] - 60:28 down [10] - 34:27, 36:1, 45:7, 45:18, 67:10 Eugene [6] - 47:29, experienced [1] - 77:12 fight [2] - 70:10, 97:14 36:5, 36:14, 40:9, 50:1, effective [2] - 67:22, 48:13, 50:4, 50:6, experiences [1] - 92:18 file [3] - 24:1, 24:7, 37:23 64:2, 64:12, 66:20, 97:13 50:14, 103:29 explaining [1] - 70:19 finality [3] - 34:10, 38:13 103:29 effectively [1] - 74:4 Europe [1] - 33:24 explicit [1] - 10:17 finally [2] - 39:26, 46:12 DPP [1] - 24:7 efficient [8] - 78:12, European [1] - 73:29 explore [1] - 15:4 financial [2] - 85:29, draw [1] - 79:8 78:17, 83:10, 84:18, event [1] - 60:10 explored [2] - 41:4, 44:11 100:29 drawn [1] - 23:21 84:22, 91:21, 97:14, events [2] - 46:10, 60:25 Explosive [1] - 100:5 Finbarr [6] - 25:26, 25:27, drink [2] - 86:9, 86:10 98:21 everyday [1] - 3:30 expressed [6] - 3:11, 47:7, 47:12, 57:19, Drogheda [9] - 58:4, effort [1] - 44:1 evidence [61] - 4:20, 7:2, 22:12, 48:11, 83:16, 101:12 58:15, 58:18, 62:17, efforts [1] - 16:30 7:19, 7:26, 7:27, 12:7, 83:19, 84:3 findings [1] - 10:11 63:14, 65:18, 65:25, Egan [2] - 97:26 12:24, 14:7, 14:11, extensive [1] - 36:18 fine [1] - 1:21 70:23, 100:3 either [9] - 31:12, 31:13, 25:14, 25:21, 29:1, extent [3] - 23:8, 55:20, first [24] - 1:7, 1:12, drove [4] - 29:23, 56:12, 31:17, 34:11, 37:9, 37:13, 43:1, 43:5, 66:14 12:13, 13:4, 13:26, 64:12, 66:8 51:2, 52:25, 58:30, 72:4 43:12, 43:14, 43:19, extract [1] - 12:18 25:21, 32:24, 36:23, drug [1] - 6:22 elaborate [1] - 66:30 43:22, 43:27, 44:18, extradition [1] - 66:25 37:26, 38:9, 38:28, drugs [1] - 52:29 electrical [3] - 76:30, 44:23, 45:5, 47:27, extraordinary [1] - 87:12 40:25, 67:13, 67:17, DS [1] - 71:4 77:23, 78:1 50:5, 51:27, 51:30, extremely [3] - 5:4, 56:9, 67:21, 67:25, 70:5, Dublin [13] - 7:12, 28:27, electronic [1] - 74:27 53:5, 58:22, 61:8, 97:13 84:13, 90:27, 93:7, 33:5, 34:25, 38:7, elevated [1] - 30:25 61:12, 62:15, 65:13, eye [1] - 77:6 97:16, 99:8, 99:17, 38:19, 39:4, 40:5, eleven [2] - 72:10, 103:22 66:5, 66:18, 66:23, 100:16 41:29, 47:29, 81:28, elsewhere [2] - 28:27, 68:15, 68:17, 68:22, F first-grade [1] - 97:16 83:29, 88:28 60:18 69:2, 69:8, 69:24, 70:5, firstly [1] - 62:10 fabricate [1] - 23:2 due [2] - 9:24, 45:1 emanated [2] - 77:24, 71:10, 76:27, 77:27, fist [1] - 1:19 Dundalk [51] - 13:1, 13:6, 87:7 77:28, 80:25, 81:3, faced [1] - 90:16 fit [2] - 4:15, 22:26 13:11, 19:8, 19:11, emanating [1] - 8:12 81:13, 83:12, 83:14, facie [1] - 82:28 five [2] - 75:23, 81:26 22:25, 22:27, 23:9, emphasise [1] - 92:5 88:14, 92:26, 92:28, fact [31] - 2:17, 2:22, 7:7, flattering [1] - 17:18 25:15, 25:30, 29:14, enabled [1] - 12:15 95:17, 101:13, 101:22, 18:11, 26:8, 28:5, 33:4, flavour [1] - 55:17 45:18, 52:15, 58:27, 31:28, 32:3, 37:8, enclose [1] - 10:11 101:26, 103:18 flesh [1] - 31:24 evidence(sic) [1] - 23:2 63:4, 67:13, 67:25, 37:19, 44:21, 50:28, enclosed [1] - 11:21 fluctuated [1] - 79:3 evidence-in-chief [1] - 76:14, 77:4, 77:30, 57:23, 57:27, 58:16, enclosure [2] - 10:24, focus [9] - 6:15, 24:26, 80:23, 86:23, 88:13, 59:27, 60:20, 62:11, 11:12 70:5 25:25, 56:27, 58:14, evidences [1] - 14:12 90:21, 97:3, 97:23, 63:11, 63:15, 64:7, encountering [1] - 61:26 58:17, 60:19, 74:16, ex [3] - 84:8, 86:8, 97:26 97:28, 98:22, 99:7, 64:13, 65:22, 65:25, end [5] - 1:14, 17:17, 92:19 99:23, 102:30, 103:28 66:19, 66:27, 67:3, 27:4, 40:28, 85:14 ex-Commissioner [2] - focused [3] - 77:9, 85:18 69:11, 70:8, 70:9, 86:8, 97:26 factors [1] - 96:8 endangered [1] - 87:27 focusing [2] - 16:19, 70:11, 71:4, 71:29, ex-Sergeant [1] - 84:8 facts [3] - 29:18, 29:28, ended [2] - 50:7, 85:1 50:13 72:3, 82:30, 83:3, 83:7, exactly [4] - 2:11, 19:29, 35:21 energetic [1] - 58:12 follow [4] - 21:10, 35:2, 83:9, 83:13, 83:18, 46:20, 88:13 fair [7] - 4:22, 27:15, 63:3, engage [1] - 59:9 48:12, 55:24 83:19, 84:3, 84:4, examination [3] - 18:8, 63:8, 63:23, 64:30, engaged [3] - 45:30, followed [3] - 1:23, 38:23, 84:20, 85:16 100:25 64:22, 69:21 47:21, 97:26 81:2 Durack [2] - 2:3, 3:8 examine [3] - 4:2, 71:19, fairly [2] - 32:17, 51:5 engineering [1] - 75:3 FOLLOWING [1] - 104:8 DURACK [3] - 32:21, 103:5 fairness [3] - 27:10, enjoyed [1] - 70:9 following [7] - 10:7, 32:23, 41:11 EXAMINED [13] - 6:1, 42:28, 43:16 ensure [2] - 7:17, 35:27 12:10, 13:25, 19:19, during [13] - 17:30, 23:18, 32:21, 39:8, 44:14, fait [1] - 63:12 entire [1] - 96:28 30:23, 66:25, 94:5 23:26, 28:25, 43:23, 47:9, 47:25, 54:1, 62:6, faith [1] - 28:22 entities [1] - 100:17 follows [3] - 12:18, 13:18, 44:28, 46:7, 58:29, 65:9, 71:23, 73:10, false [1] - 21:27 entitled [3] - 4:14, 34:13, 14:5 62:10, 69:26, 74:13, 99:13, 101:8 familiar [1] - 82:17 41:15 FOLLOWS [15] - 1:2, 6:2, 99:18, 99:30 examined [1] - 40:2 family [4] - 14:20, 43:8, environment [1] - 55:26 32:21, 39:9, 44:14, duties [7] - 42:19, 44:19, example [5] - 6:25, 17:22, 68:11 equally [5] - 1:9, 35:30, 47:10, 47:25, 54:2, 45:29, 69:27, 73:22, 22:28, 87:5, 88:10 far [12] - 23:8, 34:6, 34:7, 36:12, 36:13, 91:16 62:6, 65:9, 71:23, 73:1, 77:8, 88:26 excellent [2] - 36:22, 34:8, 39:30, 40:15, 73:11, 99:14, 101:9 equipment [8] - 74:24, duty [3] - 28:11, 66:11, 36:23 82:24, 90:3, 93:22, 74:25, 74:26, 74:27, fond [2] - 59:14, 68:9 95:27 exception [1] - 65:29 96:16, 100:27 75:17, 75:27, 76:7 fondness [2] - 68:8, exceptions [1] - 9:7 fashion [1] - 90:18 era [1] - 58:29 68:26 exchange [3] - 8:18, Fear [1] - 17:22 E escaped [1] - 99:30 FOR [1] - 72:18 33:30, 93:10 feed [1] - 21:27 Force [20] - 6:10, 18:25, early [4] - 54:21, 58:9, especially [1] - 57:5 exclusively [1] - 78:26 feedback [1] - 97:12 22:8, 23:19, 23:27, 77:20, 84:13 essence [1] - 33:29 exercise [1] - 8:28 Fein [1] - 96:4 24:11, 27:18, 43:8, ears [1] - 83:21 essential [2] - 29:18, 92:3 existence [1] - 36:12 felt [4] - 40:3, 60:23, 54:7, 67:26, 85:4, 85:5,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 6
85:15, 92:17, 94:7, 47:16, 48:24, 48:28, group [1] - 61:21 93:2, 97:2, 101:27 ignored [1] - 37:24 96:1, 96:9, 96:10, 49:1, 49:7, 49:10, guard [6] - 21:3, 67:13, hearing [2] - 70:6, 86:29 illegal [2] - 86:9, 86:10 96:12, 98:9 49:14, 50:8, 54:4, 67:17, 67:21, 67:25, hearings [1] - 1:14 imagine [3] - 16:9, 32:14, force [7] - 42:21, 56:10, 54:26, 55:14, 62:8, 68:10 heavily [1] - 61:23 44:9 61:24, 61:27, 83:20, 62:11, 63:20, 63:29, guards [3] - 89:15, 89:18, held [1] - 55:30 immediate [1] - 37:2 90:30, 92:3 64:7, 64:13, 65:1, 66:1, 90:6 help [2] - 6:5, 55:12 immediately [2] - 25:12, forces [1] - 93:6 66:19, 69:19, 69:26, Guinness [2] - 70:25, helpful [3] - 1:22, 28:8, 89:16 Forces [2] - 55:4, 88:4 70:1, 70:8, 70:9, 71:11, 71:1 53:6 importance [1] - 90:29 Ford [2] - 82:9, 82:11 72:2, 74:14, 75:7, helpfulness [1] - 72:15 important [6] - 17:15, forecourt [1] - 64:7 83:19, 84:6, 84:7, H herewith [1] - 10:11 27:25, 33:17, 34:1, forefront [1] - 65:27 84:28, 85:21, 87:25, hesitate [2] - 10:21, 11:13 92:4, 95:28 Hackballscross [2] - foreign [1] - 90:30 88:1, 89:14, 91:7, Hickey [11] - 25:26, impression [4] - 7:20, 25:28, 57:21 form [4] - 17:17, 56:4, 91:23, 91:25, 92:6, 25:27, 26:8, 26:16, 7:23, 45:3, 64:18 half [2] - 60:26, 98:1 56:24, 86:23 93:26, 93:28, 94:4, 26:24, 47:7, 47:12, inadvertently [1] - 99:5 hand [4] - 7:15, 7:26, formal [4] - 40:25, 93:7, 95:10, 95:11, 95:12, 47:15, 57:19, 101:12, inappropriate [3] - 21:3, 96:30, 97:1 96:18, 98:4, 99:19, 21:30, 27:28 102:20 52:18, 86:27 100:13, 100:17, 101:1, handed [1] - 22:18 formed [1] - 7:20 Higgins [1] - 8:19 incident [2] - 19:25, 101:29 handler [1] - 36:13 former [3] - 16:19, 43:22, high [8] - 17:10, 19:12, 48:25 garda [3] - 12:20, 25:16, hands [1] - 47:1 86:7 25:10, 30:11, 70:8, incidents [1] - 10:4 37:9 Hanna [3] - 14:1, 14:20 forthcoming [2] - 85:28, 71:3, 81:10, 97:11 including [5] - 8:3, 44:20, Gardai [1] - 46:1 haphazard [1] - 93:24 100:22 high-risk [1] - 81:10 66:6, 71:11, 81:27 Gardaí [18] - 39:18, happenings [1] - 103:12 forum [1] - 80:10 highest [1] - 38:13 incorporated [2] - 9:12, 46:14, 50:28, 66:6, happier [1] - 68:13 forward [1] - 14:14 highly [1] - 64:30 11:30 71:28, 76:19, 83:8, happy [2] - 4:8, 22:13 forwarded [2] - 25:1, him' [1] - 57:26 incorrect [2] - 51:17, 86:8, 86:26, 87:22, harassed [1] - 66:24 34:29 himself [5] - 32:9, 43:8, 104:1 88:9, 90:12, 90:24, four [3] - 6:30, 36:3, harassment [2] - 66:10, 59:3, 68:11, 90:28 increased [4] - 77:23, 95:2, 95:22, 99:7, 99:9 98:25 66:15 history [2] - 39:16, 47:16 78:1, 78:3, 78:5 gardaí [1] - 19:29 Harcourt [7] - 6:21, 7:1, Frank [1] - 76:28 hit [1] - 17:5 indeed [24] - 3:13, 3:20, gathering [1] - 74:20 32:29, 83:16, 83:28, fraudulent [2] - 24:13, hmm [5] - 16:1, 17:23, 7:10, 9:11, 24:22, general [9] - 5:4, 7:23, 24:16 83:30, 97:24 22:4, 60:21, 60:30 33:25, 36:25, 39:6, 21:26, 56:29, 71:7, hard [6] - 7:25, 7:26, free [3] - 4:5, 4:9, 55:7 home [1] - 53:7 42:3, 45:30, 46:3, 52:8, 80:12, 83:26, 94:11, 7:27, 68:27, 69:22, frequency [1] - 76:5 homemade [1] - 75:2 63:10, 67:23, 68:8, 102:16 83:23 frequently [1] - 102:10 homework [1] - 35:21 68:10, 69:24, 74:22, generally [2] - 34:7, 86:2 harm [2] - 35:25, 35:27 FRIDAY [1] - 104:8 honest [4] - 56:28, 91:20, 75:13, 77:11, 78:24, gentleman [2] - 11:16, harmony [2] - 102:13 friend [1] - 88:15 93:23, 98:4 93:27, 95:26, 96:22 21:20 Harnden [4] - 10:26, front [2] - 11:23, 60:22 honestly [2] - 51:5, 57:16 indicate [2] - 78:5, 82:28 gentlemen [2] - 25:25, 12:12, 18:11, 18:12 frontiers [2] - 86:20, Honour [1] - 71:14 indicated [2] - 44:24, 31:18 Harnden's [1] - 10:16 86:21 honours [1] - 73:30 88:1 Gerry [1] - 99:23 Harnden(pages [1] - 12:2 fuel [1] - 57:5 hope [1] - 52:8 indication [1] - 3:23 Gibson [1] - 13:30 Harry [4] - 30:11, 30:20, full [2] - 55:1, 79:18 hopeful [1] - 42:7 indispensable [2] - given [20] - 12:24, 15:3, 31:18, 48:17 full-time [1] - 79:18 horrible [1] - 60:10 93:17, 95:29 22:10, 35:6, 35:22, HAVING [3] - 6:1, 54:1, fully [4] - 18:15, 47:14, horrific [1] - 78:25 individual [19] - 20:22, 36:11, 43:19, 43:20, 73:10 63:19, 79:22 hour [4] - 29:22, 60:28, 26:23, 29:11, 31:30, 43:22, 45:5, 46:21, hazy [1] - 19:26 function [3] - 74:17, 80:16, 80:18 32:16, 35:12, 35:14, 51:30, 66:18, 66:23, head [6] - 30:11, 30:29, 35:22, 35:26, 35:27, 83:24, 94:20 hours [3] - 39:23, 80:17 69:25, 77:27, 98:16, 31:9, 31:18, 69:17, 40:11, 48:16, 50:8, furnished [1] - 62:23 house [5] - 66:19, 70:22, 101:12, 101:22, 101:26 97:16 50:26, 51:13, 51:16, furtherance [1] - 10:2 77:7, 87:15, 100:3 gleaned [2] - 25:24, 42:8 Head [3] - 11:22, 14:17, 52:30, 57:13, 89:11 future [2] - 1:23, 4:30 House [1] - 17:3 glowing [1] - 44:18 77:14 individual's [1] - 56:16 housed [2] - 6:29, 6:30 God [2] - 56:12, 60:3 headed [1] - 47:13 individuals [8] - 6:28, G houses [1] - 67:5 goods [4] - 20:5, 62:28, headlines [7] - 17:6, 26:6, 30:7, 39:22, housing [2] - 67:4, 70:11 game [2] - 74:4, 74:8 63:1, 63:4 17:21, 17:24, 17:26, 54:26, 56:29, 57:18, human [2] - 30:30, 33:21 Garda [106] - 1:8, 4:14, Governments [1] - 93:6 17:27, 18:22, 85:7 101:23 hundred [2] - 30:17, 6:9, 6:14, 6:20, 7:30, grab [1] - 89:29 Headquarters [13] - informal [1] - 93:25 31:11 8:1, 8:22, 8:25, 9:16, grade [1] - 97:16 18:30, 19:14, 32:3, informally [1] - 97:12 hundreds [1] - 37:10 9:26, 11:7, 11:26, grammatical [1] - 13:20 37:6, 37:18, 37:20, information [69] - 7:14, 11:29, 12:6, 12:14, grateful [3] - 53:5, 72:13, 46:25, 48:29, 49:2, 12:15, 13:9, 14:14, 12:15, 12:27, 13:1, 103:13 49:7, 49:10, 49:15, 91:9 I 14:27, 14:29, 19:24, 13:14, 13:19, 14:12, grave [2] - 92:2, 99:27 heads [2] - 33:25, 49:30 i.e [1] - 10:15 21:25, 21:27, 21:30, 14:16, 14:29, 16:19, great [8] - 6:5, 28:22, health [2] - 40:10, 40:11 idea [4] - 59:26, 65:3, 23:4, 24:24, 24:25, 17:12, 18:30, 19:14, 35:30, 58:21, 70:12, hear [6] - 2:11, 9:23, 95:21 24:27, 25:9, 25:22, 77:5, 90:16, 92:30 21:15, 21:19, 25:1, 19:24, 29:8, 30:29, idealogical [1] - 96:8 25:23, 28:8, 33:30, greater [2] - 79:7, 79:13 27:5, 31:2, 31:3, 33:19, 59:20 identified [5] - 35:28, 35:3, 35:13, 35:25, 33:23, 33:28, 34:21, greatest [1] - 90:19 heard [18] - 19:19, 26:19, 82:21, 84:5, 95:14, 36:2, 36:6, 42:7, 44:10, 36:25, 38:17, 39:22, greeted [3] - 2:27, 3:6, 29:10, 30:28, 31:17, 95:15 45:22, 48:15, 49:9, 39:29, 42:4, 42:6, 3:27 55:11, 58:12, 58:22, identify [1] - 18:2 49:13, 50:26, 59:18, 42:21, 42:23, 43:3, ground [3] - 16:2, 34:18, 65:21, 69:5, 72:4, 84:2, identity [3] - 36:13, 61:7, 62:26, 63:13, 43:22, 44:11, 46:23, 74:23 85:12, 86:5, 88:14, 82:23, 82:25 63:18, 69:16, 84:24,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 7
84:29, 85:9, 85:11, invariably [1] - 102:18 70:12, 71:12, 72:3, kind [1] - 94:12 37:1, 38:4, 49:21, 86:30, 87:8, 87:20, inventing [1] - 90:19 73:23, 74:13, 74:18, Kingdom [1] - 99:28 49:22, 49:23, 49:24, 87:24, 87:30, 88:3, investigate [3] - 42:29, 77:16, 78:8, 78:11, Kirwan [6] - 11:27, 15:15, 55:3, 75:8, 93:11, 88:8, 89:6, 89:7, 89:8, 83:24, 90:25 78:12, 78:13, 78:17, 28:30, 29:3, 46:24, 93:12, 93:13, 93:16 89:11, 89:19, 89:21, investigated [5] - 26:5, 78:28, 79:20, 80:13, 46:28 level' [1] - 25:4 89:22, 92:2, 93:4, 26:21, 47:14, 54:21, 80:27, 86:5, 86:12, knowing [3] - 8:11, 50:8, levels [3] - 37:2, 91:23, 93:20, 93:24, 93:26, 90:2 86:17, 86:30, 88:18, 63:13 93:9 94:12, 95:12, 95:13, investigating [7] - 11:28, 88:22, 88:25, 89:5, knowledge [9] - 14:25, liaise [1] - 46:17 98:16, 98:17, 99:20, 19:29, 21:9, 44:20, 90:6, 93:27, 94:1, 23:24, 29:30, 30:3, lies [2] - 50:29, 51:1 100:9, 100:14 46:26, 71:8, 90:14 94:14, 94:17, 94:19, 36:4, 53:1, 59:10, 61:6, life [10] - 33:19, 35:8, informed [1] - 45:13 investigation [31] - 10:3, 94:25, 95:13, 96:5, 69:4 36:17, 56:18, 56:20, informer [2] - 41:14, 15:7, 15:15, 15:30, 99:21, 100:9, 100:13, known [11] - 6:21, 7:8, 82:17, 83:29, 87:27, 41:15 16:4, 17:30, 18:27, 102:6 7:24, 26:26, 29:9, 89:8, 92:3 INLA [1] - 102:7 19:1, 19:5, 24:10, Ireco [2] - 75:18, 75:19 39:22, 57:25, 84:8, lifetime [2] - 86:19, 94:17 inquiries [5] - 10:8, 25:12, 25:17, 25:24, Ireland [7] - 8:5, 19:10, 89:9, 99:20 light [3] - 40:30, 70:8, 10:20, 19:10, 35:2, 55:9 39:27, 45:8, 46:2, 46:5, 78:13, 86:22, 99:26, knows [3] - 35:13, 56:12, 89:26 inquiry [1] - 9:21 46:9, 46:30, 47:2, 100:1, 100:2 60:3 lightly [1] - 90:13 insofar [7] - 26:4, 32:12, 47:14, 47:17, 65:24, Irish [6] - 9:22, 10:25, likely [1] - 36:13 35:3, 36:1, 38:21, 73:23, 89:3, 89:30, 12:3, 13:23, 68:26, 93:4 L Limerick [2] - 21:15, 74:15, 81:7 90:5, 93:19, 95:5, issue [2] - 17:29, 48:27 95:13 Lady [1] - 13:30 Inspector [8] - 7:3, 10:12, 101:27, 102:20 issues [4] - 8:12, 37:5, limited [1] - 36:4 land [2] - 86:20, 86:21 13:27, 14:6, 29:4, investigations [7] - 21:7, 83:22, 90:26 line [5] - 24:3, 91:27, 46:24, 46:28, 73:26 26:3, 33:22, 44:28, IT [1] - 77:9 large [3] - 42:21, 45:8, 94:27, 94:29, 98:24 57:13 inspector [1] - 97:9 46:8, 46:12, 90:6 itself [2] - 88:19, 96:12 lines [2] - 12:24, 86:11 larger [1] - 56:15 instance [1] - 35:24 investigator [12] - 8:30, link [1] - 64:24 last [10] - 13:17, 26:18, instances [1] - 96:18 15:3, 22:9, 22:14, J list [2] - 97:9, 97:10 45:13, 51:18, 83:2, instructed [1] - 40:16 28:24, 44:27, 59:19, listen [1] - 67:30 jail [1] - 95:7 83:6, 91:24, 97:2, integrity [4] - 22:15, 63:16, 65:14, 65:18, listening [3] - 58:28, January [1] - 99:7 101:27 22:30, 38:14, 89:28 65:23, 69:14 68:2, 68:6 job [2] - 22:10, 23:15 late [4] - 54:21, 57:3, Intelligence [1] - 34:24 investigators [5] - 13:5, lived [4] - 56:12, 66:7, John [1] - 29:21 75:29, 77:20 intelligence [49] - 12:7, 18:26, 19:6, 19:29, 71:29, 77:28 join [1] - 78:21 laterally [1] - 79:11 13:14, 24:2, 24:30, 26:22 LLM [1] - 73:30 joined [1] - 73:19 LAVERTY [7] - 73:5, 25:2, 27:21, 30:6, invoke [1] - 27:10 loads [1] - 93:14 Joseph [1] - 29:9 73:11, 73:16, 74:10, 33:14, 33:17, 33:19, invoked [1] - 27:8 local [6] - 19:5, 19:6, journalism [1] - 18:17 99:11, 103:7, 103:18 34:3, 34:4, 34:6, 34:14, involved [24] - 18:21, 36:28, 37:2, 37:4, 38:4 journalist [3] - 9:22, Laverty [3] - 99:5, 103:4, 34:18, 34:19, 34:22, 21:12, 28:25, 28:26, locally [1] - 34:24 10:26, 12:3 103:25 34:28, 35:9, 35:15, 33:5, 39:28, 39:30, located [1] - 14:12 45:8, 45:11, 56:13, journey [1] - 53:7 law [2] - 22:3, 73:29 35:19, 36:10, 40:1, location [1] - 49:4 40:3, 44:26, 45:1, 56:26, 56:28, 56:30, judge [1] - 14:22 laws [1] - 96:15 logistics [1] - 81:21 45:19, 45:21, 46:14, 57:11, 57:13, 73:22, Judge [4] - 73:21, 74:15, lead [3] - 8:29, 51:30, London [1] - 78:25 46:22, 46:25, 46:28, 76:11, 84:12, 86:14, 80:30, 97:22 86:28 look [7] - 27:15, 88:11, 86:23, 90:5, 101:18, July [2] - 14:1, 62:20 leadership [1] - 102:11 55:22, 63:8, 63:29, 88:30, 89:26, 90:2, 101:26, 102:19 June [2] - 10:2, 10:3 leading [1] - 85:15 64:22, 74:20, 80:9, 90:22, 92:1 81:10, 84:17, 87:6, involvement [9] - 8:28, Justice [2] - 8:19, 13:30 leak [1] - 50:27 looked [9] - 40:2, 67:7, 87:10, 87:18, 93:10, 15:6, 16:3, 16:6, 18:23, learned [1] - 8:4 76:12, 76:13, 88:23, 93:15, 97:16, 99:6, 32:24, 40:18, 56:15, least [2] - 69:25, 82:27 K 89:10, 89:12, 93:28 99:8, 102:24 66:25 leave [4] - 1:30, 24:11, keep [3] - 4:7, 91:10, looking [6] - 20:27, intelligence-gathering involving [3] - 43:30, 36:16, 81:8 91:29 22:16, 47:15, 56:29, [1] - 74:20 58:5, 102:20 leaving [4] - 29:24, 56:29, keeper [2] - 74:4, 74:8 85:6 intended [2] - 8:4, 14:22 iota [2] - 84:2, 84:4 58:7, 85:22 [1] keeping [2] - 92:19, 92:21 Lord - 13:30 intending [1] - 2:5 IRA [94] - 7:23, 8:3, 10:29, led [5] - 8:18, 29:18, [1] kegs [1] - 70:24 lorries - 81:18 intercept [1] - 77:21 11:6, 12:1, 12:12, 63:20, 85:9, 99:20 [1] Kelly [8] - 21:15, 95:11, lorry - 81:27 intercepting [2] - 76:9, 12:16, 12:28, 12:30, left [4] - 13:1, 29:23, lost [1] - 88:5 76:14 13:10, 13:14, 13:19, 96:3, 96:8, 101:27, 60:29, 98:6 101:29 Loughgall [1] - 30:23 interest [3] - 6:16, 89:17, 21:17, 24:25, 26:7, leg [1] - 77:6 kept [1] - 81:23 Louth [3] - 9:17, 10:5, 102:13 27:29, 28:15, 29:13, legal [1] - 62:20 Kevin [3] - 9:23, 12:3, 56:19 interests [2] - 35:5, 29:30, 30:1, 30:3, legitimate [2] - 82:21, Louth/Meath [2] - 19:4, 102:14 43:10, 43:23, 44:6, 13:24 82:29 kidnap [3] - 20:26, 69:15, 97:15 interference [1] - 76:30 45:12, 52:11, 52:18, LEHANE [3] - 65:9, 65:11, 69:30 love [1] - 70:12 international [2] - 33:29, 55:15, 55:19, 56:3, 71:6 kidnapped [10] - 19:20, loyal [1] - 83:11 75:8 56:11, 56:16, 56:20, Leo [4] - 26:18, 27:22, 19:22, 20:2, 20:16, LUNCH [2] - 72:18, 73:1 interpretation [1] - 22:11 57:2, 57:3, 57:11, 44:17, 57:23 59:20, 69:26, 69:29, interrupt [1] - 51:23 57:14, 57:15, 61:7, less [2] - 33:13, 55:10 70:6, 71:25, 72:3 M interview [2] - 54:26, 61:18, 64:18, 64:22, letter [3] - 9:9, 10:2, 64:24, 65:1, 65:28, kidnapping [4] - 20:29, 97:12 11:21 machine [1] - 26:25 66:6, 66:7, 66:10, 42:27, 69:5, 86:5 interviews [3] - 43:3, level [22] - 15:23, 25:3, machinery [1] - 96:14 66:20, 66:24, 69:15, killing [2] - 18:24, 71:12 46:15, 87:3 25:4, 25:5, 25:6, 25:10, Maguire [24] - 72:9, 69:26, 69:30, 70:10, killings [2] - 46:6, 46:10 intrinsically [1] - 67:29 31:10, 36:28, 36:29, 72:10, 72:15, 73:6,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 8
73:13, 73:16, 76:26, 3:13, 4:4, 4:17, 99:4 91:10, 91:18, 92:23, most [10] - 3:18, 28:27, 95:14 77:10, 81:12, 81:15, McHugh [1] - 101:28 93:30 34:26, 48:21, 78:12, named [1] - 87:7 87:19, 90:24, 96:10, McTiernan [5] - 1:10, messing [1] - 70:24 78:16, 78:17, 97:18, namely [1] - 29:19 98:5, 99:1, 99:16, 53:13, 54:1, 62:8, 71:7 met [12] - 10:7, 11:18, 98:4, 98:21 names [3] - 9:6, 31:16, 99:18, 100:8, 100:19, mean [20] - 3:7, 3:29, 11:26, 25:29, 37:21, motivated [2] - 96:1, 96:8 39:21 101:2, 101:6, 101:11, 31:27, 49:30, 55:7, 58:29, 59:8, 62:19, mount [6] - 25:18, 64:20, narrow [3] - 36:1, 36:5, 103:9, 103:26 59:28, 79:14, 80:30, 93:11, 93:12, 93:13 78:26, 80:14, 80:28, 36:14 MAGUIRE [1] - 73:10 84:23, 86:17, 87:13, method [1] - 22:1 93:18 nation [1] - 17:15 main [7] - 57:4, 58:16, 87:28, 88:3, 89:12, meticulous [2] - 13:7, mounted [4] - 21:19, natural [4] - 19:9, 19:12, 64:13, 64:15, 74:16, 90:5, 93:25, 94:15, 98:26 79:30, 80:21, 95:15 19:13, 39:20 79:16, 79:17 96:14, 96:15, 100:26 Metropolitan [1] - 38:20 mounting [1] - 30:5 naturally [2] - 3:6, 7:14 mains [1] - 12:23 meanness [1] - 68:25 mid [1] - 57:3 move [1] - 64:8 nature [6] - 32:2, 38:2, Mains [3] - 10:13, 12:23, means [4] - 36:8, 49:30, middle [1] - 6:29 moved [3] - 37:19, 57:3, 56:17, 81:10, 85:13, 14:6 91:19, 94:15 might [30] - 12:28, 25:1, 79:11 94:24 majority [2] - 21:6, 43:19 mechanism [2] - 96:30, 26:30, 27:17, 27:18, movement [4] - 87:13, Navan [3] - 54:11, 54:17, make-up [1] - 46:26 97:1 28:3, 28:20, 30:25, 87:16, 96:4, 102:11 55:30 maker [1] - 24:17 medical [2] - 24:12, 77:7 31:17, 40:9, 46:15, movements [1] - 87:9 nearly [2] - 20:28, 59:7 malicious [1] - 96:23 meet [17] - 1:21, 2:14, 55:12, 56:16, 57:1, moving [5] - 61:11, necessarily [1] - 80:22 man [12] - 12:30, 25:26, 2:15, 2:16, 2:17, 2:19, 57:16, 59:30, 60:16, 67:11, 87:14, 87:15, necessary [1] - 10:8 25:27, 29:8, 48:3, 48:4, 2:21, 2:22, 4:8, 4:10, 61:21, 65:3, 70:15, 87:30 necessity [1] - 81:11 50:12, 90:19, 91:20, 4:22, 4:24, 4:25, 50:9, 76:26, 78:15, 79:11, MR [46] - 1:6, 2:5, 2:10, Ned [3] - 18:28, 18:29, 93:23, 94:9, 96:2 77:10, 93:10 83:30, 88:24, 88:25, 3:4, 3:13, 4:4, 4:17, 5:3, 31:10 management [1] - 91:24 meeting [13] - 1:18, 10:8, 94:26, 95:9, 95:23, 98:8 6:1, 6:8, 23:4, 23:6, need [5] - 4:24, 35:17, managers [1] - 91:27 12:16, 12:19, 13:20, mile [1] - 66:4 32:21, 32:23, 39:8, 40:19, 45:14, 64:1 manner [5] - 1:28, 3:19, 15:28, 36:3, 36:4, 36:7, military [1] - 80:3 39:11, 40:24, 41:7, need-to-know [1] - 45:14 28:15, 50:19, 100:30 38:24, 38:25, 62:23, mind [11] - 11:9, 19:7, 41:11, 41:19, 41:25, needed [1] - 30:1 manufacturing [1] - 98:30 28:2, 46:7, 55:28, 44:14, 44:16, 47:23, needs [2] - 1:26, 88:23 75:26 meetings [6] - 11:18, 64:13, 66:17, 70:6, 47:25, 47:27, 51:23, negative [1] - 43:17 March [8] - 7:6, 12:4, 37:11, 37:30, 38:18, 70:19, 85:18, 104:5 52:8, 53:12, 54:1, 54:4, never [22] - 23:9, 24:28, 13:24, 14:2, 14:7, 93:14, 93:16 minister [1] - 15:20 62:6, 62:8, 65:9, 65:11, 25:29, 29:11, 34:13, 28:10, 46:10, 60:5 meets [1] - 4:23 Minister [1] - 8:18 71:6, 71:17, 71:21, 37:11, 48:6, 48:9, mark [2] - 31:28, 31:30 member [39] - 13:15, minute [3] - 16:5, 84:29, 71:23, 71:25, 72:9, 48:22, 50:26, 62:11, market [1] - 57:9 22:26, 23:1, 23:18, 90:7 99:4, 99:13, 99:16, 72:4, 84:2, 84:7, 84:10, master [1] - 38:21 24:10, 24:15, 26:28, minutes [5] - 3:21, 18:8, 101:4, 103:24 84:25, 84:28, 85:12, material [3] - 10:19, 26:30, 27:11, 41:28, 29:24, 60:29 MRS [7] - 73:5, 73:11, 85:28, 88:2, 100:10, 89:25, 91:28 42:4, 42:6, 46:24, 50:7, misconduct [3] - 21:3, 73:16, 74:10, 99:11, 100:11 materials [5] - 75:6, 54:25, 55:8, 61:26, 21:6, 21:7 103:7, 103:18 news [2] - 17:8, 17:13 75:13, 75:14, 82:28, 66:1, 66:19, 69:19, misled [1] - 93:21 MS [7] - 47:7, 47:9, 47:12, newspaper [1] - 18:22 69:25, 69:29, 83:16, 92:8 mission [2] - 52:26, 90:13 101:6, 101:8, 101:11, newspapers [2] - 17:26, matter [45] - 1:12, 4:26, 83:19, 83:27, 84:1, misunderstanding [1] - 103:2 50:28 84:4, 86:26, 87:24, 5:3, 8:23, 10:20, 13:29, 4:17 munitions [2] - 81:26, next [3] - 12:18, 13:29, 14:19, 16:10, 18:26, 90:12, 93:26, 94:7, mobile [8] - 75:30, 76:6, 82:14 53:12 95:2, 95:10, 95:12, 21:11, 22:2, 22:12, 76:8, 76:14, 76:19, Munster [1] - 95:10 nice [1] - 53:6 95:22, 96:1, 96:10, 25:18, 27:4, 27:29, 76:22, 77:17, 77:21 Murder [1] - 17:22 night [1] - 82:5 101:1 28:9, 32:14, 32:24, modus [2] - 1:23, 35:22 murder [3] - 7:12, 10:15, nil [1] - 84:21 members [22] - 9:16, 13:27 34:9, 36:8, 37:30, mole [5] - 17:22, 18:23, nilly [1] - 89:13 14:20, 22:25, 22:29, murdered [5] - 6:18, 40:27, 40:28, 42:29, 19:17, 37:8, 44:6 nine [1] - 95:19 26:7, 26:26, 34:21, 29:25, 60:6, 60:29, 49:28, 51:13, 51:16, moles [1] - 44:20 no.. [1] - 20:12 42:23, 43:3, 43:22, 90:11 51:18, 51:19, 52:14, moment [5] - 30:15, Noel [2] - 5:6, 14:16 52:17, 56:30, 58:6, 49:1, 50:28, 67:26, murders [16] - 7:7, 8:13, 45:13, 50:30, 58:6, NOEL [1] - 6:1 71:21, 76:14, 80:23, 69:30, 71:11, 86:7, 9:19, 9:25, 11:3, 13:25, 92:10 Nolan [1] - 29:21 85:12, 87:10, 87:28, 91:23, 94:17, 94:25, 14:19, 29:19, 33:4, Monaghan [5] - 37:14, non [1] - 65:1 90:28, 91:8, 93:27, 96:9, 96:18, 101:23 39:1, 60:15, 76:27, 47:28, 56:19, 85:16, non-Garda [1] - 65:1 94:14, 99:5, 99:22 memory [5] - 33:16, 38:9, 78:2, 80:1, 82:4, 97:19 91:9 none [4] - 48:9, 61:10, matters [22] - 1:26, 11:20, 45:21, 59:7, 66:30 Murray [6] - 76:29, 77:4, money [7] - 59:11, 59:14, 71:14, 83:10 23:30, 26:15, 26:30, men [2] - 61:21, 85:15 68:8, 68:13, 68:26, 77:19, 77:23, 77:27, nonetheless [2] - 28:13, 33:20, 47:23, 49:29, mention [1] - 1:13 77:28 96:6, 100:24 62:14 51:2, 51:21, 52:25, mentioned [13] - 7:19, money' [1] - 68:9 must [5] - 7:23, 7:24, normal [3] - 32:17, 80:27, 77:10, 81:9, 84:4, 23:30, 24:23, 37:12, 42:5, 69:21, 91:21 monitor [2] - 36:10, 77:17 90:17 84:26, 85:17, 85:22, 38:5, 43:14, 50:4, Myers [4] - 9:23, 12:3, monitored [1] - 95:16 normally [7] - 25:10, 85:23, 85:30, 93:15, 51:24, 65:13, 66:5, 13:24, 18:14 monitoring [3] - 77:16, 34:23, 81:18, 82:20, 98:6, 98:23 77:16, 100:15, 103:25 77:18, 77:25 82:25, 82:26, 90:1 Maureen [1] - 14:1 merit [1] - 97:11 months [4] - 39:24, 81:1, N north [4] - 29:23, 54:27, maximum [2] - 29:24, meritorious [1] - 97:18 84:1, 98:25 76:30, 77:5 mess [1] - 103:10 name [12] - 10:6, 10:9, 84:1 morning [10] - 1:4, 1:6, 10:13, 11:9, 13:19, North [3] - 49:21, 66:26, McGlinchey [1] - 66:26 message [11] - 50:14, 2:6, 2:26, 3:14, 29:20, 26:18, 29:3, 32:12, 87:21 McGuinness [9] - 2:3, 50:15, 88:19, 88:27, 38:24, 92:28, 95:11, Northern [4] - 8:4, 19:10, 2:5, 2:10, 2:25, 3:4, 90:10, 90:15, 90:21, 67:9, 89:18, 89:28, 103:22 78:13, 86:21
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 9 northern [1] - 38:6 off-chance [1] - 79:25 operating [2] - 79:10, own [10] - 26:11, 39:4, 31:12 note [4] - 90:15, 98:19, offences [1] - 6:23 91:5 57:10, 69:1, 74:27, path [1] - 15:19 98:29, 104:4 offer [2] - 61:5, 71:10 operation [23] - 16:28, 74:30, 75:25, 75:26, patient [1] - 72:11 notebook [1] - 98:24 office [2] - 87:25, 91:26 21:19, 22:1, 25:19, 96:7, 96:20 Patrick [1] - 29:9 noted [2] - 13:6, 76:30 officer [29] - 9:10, 9:26, 55:22, 61:17, 61:18, owner [2] - 82:23, 82:25 patrolled [1] - 61:23 notes [2] - 98:26, 98:27 10:7, 10:10, 12:15, 75:4, 76:10, 76:12, pause [1] - 12:22 notetaker [1] - 98:21 12:20, 13:14, 13:18, 79:25, 79:30, 80:4, P pay [3] - 57:15, 86:3, nothing [14] - 7:26, 14:9, 13:19, 19:3, 21:8, 22:7, 80:9, 80:15, 80:21, 100:27 page [8] - 10:16, 12:13, 46:30, 47:1, 56:7, 22:9, 23:10, 27:17, 80:28, 81:5, 82:27, paying [4] - 59:15, 68:18, 12:18, 12:27, 12:30, 57:22, 61:5, 66:17, 37:29, 42:24, 48:5, 84:7, 87:13, 93:18, 71:1, 100:22 13:4, 13:17, 22:20 67:28, 68:5, 68:9, 73:18, 77:5, 77:12, 95:16 payment [2] - 85:28, 86:9 paid [2] - 20:5, 68:13 89:23, 91:30, 94:3 83:5, 84:18, 84:22, operational [8] - 74:22, payroll [1] - 27:1 paintings [13] - 16:29, notice [3] - 7:16, 80:15, 90:30, 91:21, 93:28, 79:1, 79:6, 79:12, peculiar [2] - 92:17, 17:2, 17:16, 23:12, 80:16 98:4 79:14, 79:19, 82:1, 100:21 32:25, 39:15, 39:19, notification [1] - 20:21 Officer [1] - 10:14 93:12 people [42] - 18:20, 28:4, 39:29, 40:19, 41:27, notorious [3] - 99:24, Officers [1] - 11:26 operations [14] - 30:6, 30:4, 31:5, 31:6, 31:7, 44:1, 51:19 100:23 officers [33] - 6:18, 7:8, 45:15, 58:5, 64:20, 32:15, 34:11, 34:22, paper [3] - 38:24, 93:16, number [21] - 6:14, 6:15, 9:6, 12:14, 13:1, 16:19, 64:22, 78:19, 78:23, 36:3, 36:24, 36:26, 93:17 11:18, 23:27, 23:30, 18:10, 18:12, 18:24, 78:26, 80:30, 83:6, 50:10, 55:21, 55:23, parallel [1] - 97:17 24:19, 26:4, 32:5, 19:6, 19:8, 19:9, 19:11, 84:12, 85:15, 100:10 55:24, 55:27, 55:30, paramilitary [2] - 78:18, 39:28, 43:15, 58:23, 19:14, 20:13, 20:14, operatives [1] - 80:28 56:1, 56:8, 56:20, 63:6, 63:9, 75:24, 23:27, 26:4, 29:19, operator [1] - 26:25 79:17 56:28, 79:11, 79:16, 78:13, 79:5, 79:13, 31:21, 38:13, 43:27, operators [2] - 37:5, 57:5 pardon [2] - 16:18, 54:14 79:18, 80:2, 81:19, 81:29, 90:26, 96:5, 45:7, 45:16, 46:6, 60:6, opinion [6] - 23:10, 51:5, Park [1] - 37:19 83:14, 85:8, 85:10, 99:26 60:26, 64:11, 71:13, 64:27, 64:28, 78:2 parked [3] - 60:22, 60:23, 87:1, 87:4, 87:21, 64:12 numbers [2] - 79:2, 79:3 79:1, 83:13, 93:9 opportunity [4] - 3:10, 89:13, 89:15, 91:25, parking [1] - 64:21 nutshell [1] - 51:7 Official [1] - 95:20 88:8, 88:10, 90:24 96:24, 100:18, 100:20, official [1] - 88:26 opposition [1] - 8:19 part [9] - 27:28, 33:24, 102:5, 102:16 43:29, 64:29, 70:26, O often [5] - 22:3, 35:29, option [2] - 27:13, 27:14 perceived [1] - 93:30 79:29, 84:11, 102:14 order [4] - 5:1, 42:4, 78:4, 83:4, 83:6, 94:9 percent [2] - 30:17, 31:11 O'CALLAGHAN [9] - OK [1] - 16:14 81:30, 82:16 partially [1] - 62:24 perception [1] - 88:18 23:4, 39:8, 39:11, [30] old [1] - 16:2 ordinary [7] - 21:8, 33:5, particular - 1:24, peremptory [1] - 3:18 41:19, 41:25, 51:23, ON [1] - 1:1 33:11, 33:15, 52:29, 2:21, 4:6, 9:29, 12:2, perform [1] - 42:1 99:13, 99:16, 103:24 19:3, 22:12, 23:15, on-the-ground [1] - 34:18 58:18, 63:10 performed [2] - 42:15, O'Callaghan [5] - 40:27, 30:7, 31:29, 36:5, 37:4, once [2] - 1:13, 84:7 Organisation [3] - 25:15, 95:16 41:1, 51:20, 52:9, 104:6 38:10, 40:5, 40:27, one [60] - 1:18, 4:18, 5:3, 31:1, 45:17 perhaps [10] - 36:3, [15] 44:3, 52:26, 56:19, o'clock - 2:18, 2:19, 12:13, 12:20, 16:18, organisation [5] - 44:11, 63:23, 74:19, 77:18, 3:4, 3:24, 4:9, 4:20, 16:28, 20:11, 25:26, 78:19, 79:28, 80:13, 58:6, 58:29, 62:23, 78:3, 78:27, 86:11, 29:22, 60:27, 72:6, 28:20, 30:8, 31:12, 96:20 74:13, 76:10, 79:10, 95:9, 95:22, 97:27 72:7, 72:10, 72:16, 79:30, 81:4, 83:15, 31:22, 32:24, 34:27, organisations [6] - 73:23, period [8] - 9:25, 43:9, 83:27, 98:29 77:1, 78:1, 103:22 35:4, 35:13, 38:13, 75:8, 78:22, 101:24, 55:13, 66:16, 75:23, [4] particularly [12] - 25:13, O'Connell - 7:4, 7:19, 38:29, 41:13, 46:26, 102:7, 102:8 79:10, 99:30, 100:1 83:15, 83:30 42:10, 44:8, 58:26, 47:23, 50:2, 50:30, original [3] - 14:7, 88:2, periods [1] - 6:16 O'Connell's [1] - 8:8 64:8, 66:24, 68:26, 51:4, 51:18, 55:29, 99:6 permission [1] - 34:15 O'Dea [3] - 18:28, 18:29, 75:16, 78:24, 79:26, 58:25, 61:27, 61:29, otherwise [6] - 3:25, person [12] - 1:18, 18:16, 81:23, 92:15 31:10 64:1, 69:25, 71:21, 29:9, 34:16, 49:19, 28:6, 40:12, 68:10, parts [1] - 25:24 O'Donoghue [1] - 15:20 72:6, 75:19, 75:21, 52:24, 87:25 89:18, 89:26, 91:1, pass [4] - 34:14, 44:26, O'SULLIVAN [7] - 47:7, 75:27, 76:9, 79:7, out-in-the-open [1] - 94:12, 94:13, 96:12, 93:4, 93:24 47:9, 47:12, 101:6, 79:12, 81:28, 83:26, 61:29 96:27 101:8, 101:11, 103:2 passed [14] - 12:15, 34:9, 84:2, 84:4, 84:22, outcome [1] - 63:20 person's [2] - 35:8, 89:28 O'Toole [1] - 31:12 48:17, 48:21, 48:26, 84:29, 86:8, 87:20, outlined [1] - 12:8 personable [1] - 48:4 oath [2] - 95:22, 95:23 49:9, 84:24, 85:9, 88:28, 90:27, 92:22, outlines [1] - 12:10 personal [3] - 38:18, 87:22, 87:30, 88:4, objection [1] - 41:3 97:5, 97:7, 97:11, outside [3] - 19:4, 34:3, 76:4, 102:26 observations [1] - 45:10 88:9, 94:12, 98:17 98:24, 99:5, 99:26, 85:4 personalised [1] - 5:5 obsessed [1] - 58:27 passing [14] - 21:25, 103:24, 103:26 overt [2] - 87:13, 87:18 personally [1] - 91:9 obstructed [2] - 3:8, 3:9 [2] 24:25, 34:5, 45:1, ones - 75:23, 76:21 overtly [1] - 89:15 personnel [2] - 7:15, 45:19, 45:21, 84:29, obtaining [2] - 30:6, 56:4 ongoing [2] - 19:10, overview [1] - 38:19 46:16 85:8, 86:30, 87:8, obviously [5] - 4:9, 4:19, 19:16 Owen [32] - 16:20, 16:22, PETER [1] - 73:10 74:12, 86:5, 87:20 [1] 87:26, 95:13, 100:8, onward - 14:15 21:13, 22:24, 23:6, Peter [7] - 11:27, 15:15, 100:14 occasion [4] - 17:7, onwards [1] - 57:4 24:24, 40:4, 40:7, 28:30, 29:3, 46:24, passport [4] - 26:5, 80:24, 83:17, 97:7 open [4] - 36:16, 61:29, 41:25, 42:10, 43:23, 46:28, 73:6 47:13, 47:17, 102:19 occasions [6] - 11:18, 80:10, 87:18 44:5, 57:29, 58:5, Phoenix [2] - 23:22, passports [4] - 26:22, 55:12, 63:6, 63:9, 97:7, Opening [1] - 24:23 58:10, 58:26, 59:2, 37:19 98:11 26:24, 27:29, 28:16 operandi [2] - 1:23, 35:23 59:8, 59:10, 59:14, phone [4] - 76:8, 76:15, past [4] - 3:21, 59:27, occurred [2] - 7:7, 13:27 operate [5] - 30:7, 35:9, 62:14, 63:13, 64:4, 76:22, 77:22 59:28, 69:11 occurrence [2] - 3:30, 45:17, 55:25, 79:9 65:12, 67:9, 70:13, phones [4] - 75:30, 76:6, past' [1] - 59:28 70:3 operated [3] - 36:28, 70:27, 71:25, 84:8, 76:19, 77:17 Pat [3] - 8:25, 15:11, OF [2] - 1:1, 104:9 45:16, 63:14 88:17, 90:25, 99:19 photograph [3] - 30:16,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 10
30:18, 30:20 36:16, 37:8, 51:25, 30:25, 70:8, 71:3 20:17, 21:4, 22:2, 24:5, react [2] - 48:25, 60:3 picture [1] - 66:27 51:26 profound [1] - 87:29 26:18, 28:22, 30:26, reaction [2] - 32:17, piece [1] - 75:27 precede [1] - 85:24 progress [1] - 75:5 30:30, 31:16, 31:24, 50:13 pieces [1] - 23:2 precise [1] - 8:1 progressed [1] - 75:25 32:25, 34:4, 35:7, 36:9, read [5] - 14:24, 16:11, PIRA [3] - 9:17, 11:29, precisely [3] - 63:12, prominent [2] - 39:15, 39:24, 43:8, 45:20, 20:19, 30:15, 38:7 26:26 70:14, 94:12 66:25 46:29, 49:18, 51:7, reading [3] - 37:23, 86:10 place [18] - 7:14, 22:2, precision [1] - 80:3 promote [1] - 58:30 55:23, 55:27, 64:17, readjusting [1] - 103:11 34:4, 36:7, 36:10, 40:2, predisposed [1] - 67:30 promoted [8] - 58:15, 70:24, 74:30, 82:19, really [12] - 7:25, 17:19, 46:29, 55:21, 55:22, premises [2] - 56:1, 74:27 58:27, 59:1, 59:4, 93:5, 103:12, 103:28 26:17, 31:26, 35:17, 61:19, 61:21, 66:6, preparation [1] - 16:6 67:14, 67:21, 73:25, 41:9, 50:13, 59:25, 66:27, 82:7, 86:18, prepared [2] - 16:12, 97:4 Q 60:2, 60:17, 66:11, 93:5, 93:8, 96:26 22:16 promotion [6] - 58:7, 88:23 qualified [1] - 67:22 placed [2] - 81:30, 97:10 preparing [1] - 24:7 58:23, 58:24, 67:18, rearrange [1] - 72:12 quality [2] - 34:20, 63:27 places [3] - 34:19, 81:23, prescribed [1] - 102:8 97:4, 97:6 reason [11] - 9:29, 16:13, quantity [1] - 81:25 92:18 presence [1] - 74:26 prompted [1] - 9:21 19:3, 23:11, 43:21, queries [2] - 14:10, 14:11 plain [1] - 45:6 press [4] - 17:17, 18:5, prone [1] - 23:2 43:26, 43:30, 61:4, questioning [2] - 69:9, planned [3] - 13:7, 80:2, 18:7, 18:25 proof [4] - 94:3, 94:4, 63:17, 69:9, 102:10 103:25 81:1 pressing [1] - 20:23 94:9, 94:10 reasonable [1] - 76:5 questions [13] - 32:23, planning [1] - 80:7 pressure [5] - 39:18, property [1] - 45:12 reasons [1] - 85:26 39:12, 41:21, 47:5, plates [1] - 82:22 39:21, 55:23, 55:27, propose [2] - 4:29, 22:19 receive [2] - 36:2, 87:11 47:19, 62:9, 71:17, play [3] - 4:12, 4:13, 56:4 proposition [1] - 63:17 received [10] - 9:9, 10:9, 99:4, 99:17, 101:4, 41:26 presumably [11] - 7:6, prosecuted [2] - 26:9, 11:6, 13:13, 14:27, 101:6, 103:2, 103:7 plea [1] - 26:11 7:9, 35:4, 35:30, 60:10, 95:4 25:9, 36:2, 88:30, 89:7 quick [1] - 37:5 poacher [2] - 74:4, 74:8 61:18, 77:24, 77:26, prosecution [1] - 95:2 receiving [1] - 34:3 quickly [1] - 85:19 point [21] - 1:25, 1:29, 87:9, 90:8, 95:21 prosecutions [1] - 101:18 recent [7] - 14:24, 20:19, quite [21] - 6:13, 17:21, 2:12, 15:18, 16:16, presume [4] - 15:21, protect [2] - 35:4, 96:13 36:26, 38:8, 75:12, 20:15, 20:28, 23:6, 20:23, 27:25, 35:18, 58:19, 81:2, 90:28 protection [2] - 36:17, 84:19, 96:10 27:2, 32:5, 45:16, 46:1, 49:6, 63:21, pretty [2] - 35:29, 37:5 89:17 recently [1] - 97:22 49:28, 70:14, 75:2, 74:22, 74:23, 84:25, prevent [1] - 35:27 protest [1] - 55:29 reception [1] - 50:6 76:22, 77:11, 92:9, 87:19, 89:3, 90:23, prevented [1] - 2:30 proved [1] - 63:9 reckon [1] - 57:1 93:23, 96:17, 96:29, 91:6, 92:5, 94:2, 103:27 previous [3] - 3:23, 82:5, provide [2] - 27:21, 89:25 reckoned [1] - 25:13 98:23, 101:22, 102:14 points [1] - 82:15 83:17 provided [3] - 14:6, 87:6, recognition [1] - 42:24 quotation [6] - 12:13, police [7] - 56:10, 64:11, previously [2] - 13:6, 99:19 recollect [1] - 43:4 12:30, 13:9, 13:17, 75:8, 90:30, 91:20, 62:19 recollection [7] - 17:28, providing [5] - 22:3, 61:7, 13:20, 13:21 92:3, 93:6 price [3] - 30:11, 30:29, 81:16, 84:16, 97:15 20:20, 20:30, 21:1, quotations [1] - 13:4 policing [2] - 74:17, 89:8 31:18 provision [1] - 93:9 27:22, 59:2, 69:27 quoted [1] - 62:24 politicians [1] - 89:14 prima [1] - 82:27 Provisional [9] - 11:6, recommendation [1] - popped [1] - 70:5 primarily [3] - 62:16, 29:30, 30:3, 43:10, R 15:27 popular [1] - 85:7 75:28, 77:9 52:11, 52:18, 55:15, reconcile [1] - 51:2 port [1] - 1:19 prime [1] - 78:20 78:11, 78:12 racket [1] - 70:25 record [13] - 90:8, 90:14, Portlaoise [4] - 101:29, prison [2] - 100:1, 102:13 provisional [1] - 101:30 radio [5] - 12:30, 75:29, 90:20, 90:28, 91:1, 102:9, 102:11, 102:17 Prison [2] - 102:17, prudent [1] - 98:13 76:3, 76:4, 77:22 91:2, 91:10, 92:15, posed [3] - 49:12, 51:6, 102:30 PSNI [3] - 36:23, 36:26, radioactivity [1] - 78:1 92:19, 92:21, 103:25, 84:5 prisoner [1] - 102:13 37:28 radius [1] - 66:4 103:27, 104:1 position [10] - 2:12, private [3] - 52:5, 87:3, public [11] - 1:14, 8:15, raise [1] - 90:8 record-keeping [2] - 27:21, 28:7, 45:22, 92:13 10:13, 22:25, 37:9, raised [2] - 31:23, 90:26 92:19, 92:21 56:23, 60:3, 61:7, privilege [1] - 41:15 40:29, 52:4, 56:10, raises [1] - 90:9 recording [1] - 76:9 77:29, 80:25, 100:30 privileged [1] - 103:15 70:22, 96:26, 96:27 range [1] - 45:6 records [7] - 90:27, [1] positions - 64:14 probity [2] - 48:8, 90:19 publication [3] - 30:16, rank [4] - 48:7, 58:16, 91:29, 92:2, 92:6, positive [3] - 43:20, 63:20 problem [5] - 25:15, 30:17, 30:29 64:12, 91:22 92:11, 92:16, 97:1 possessed [1] - 63:25 30:27, 58:10, 68:12, publications [2] - 11:30, ranks [1] - 37:11 recover [9] - 16:30, possession [1] - 24:24 70:27 18:3 rare [1] - 70:3 34:11, 39:18, 39:24, 39:25, 39:26, 39:29, possibility [8] - 8:3, 8:9, procedure [6] - 4:29, publicity [3] - 17:13, rate [2] - 64:9, 78:8 40:18, 44:1 44:24, 61:15, 61:16, 20:18, 20:26, 21:9, 19:15, 19:17 rated [1] - 65:24 61:26, 64:29 recovered [2] - 17:16, 57:16, 92:21 published [6] - 9:22, rather [5] - 19:5, 45:22, possible [14] - 27:10, proceed [1] - 90:5 10:25, 10:26, 12:3, 56:26, 69:1, 92:22 75:22 34:10, 36:1, 44:20, recovery [3] - 41:26, proceedings [1] - 88:29 38:7, 50:27 re [3] - 47:21, 71:19, 61:19, 61:30, 64:30, process [2] - 4:21, 27:9 purchased [1] - 75:14 103:5 43:30, 51:18 68:11, 80:21, 82:24, redress [1] - 32:10 produce [4] - 17:21, purported [1] - 3:19 RE [2] - 47:25, 71:23 90:3, 92:24, 98:15, refer [4] - 2:6, 9:6, 20:10, 62:28, 63:1, 63:4 purports [1] - 11:6 re-examination [1] - 98:18 produced [4] - 75:20, purpose [6] - 74:26, 75:1, 47:21 43:16 possibly [7] - 29:16, reference [3] - 44:18, 92:13, 99:7, 99:9 76:7, 82:12, 82:13, re-examine [2] - 71:19, 31:11, 31:22, 32:28, professional [11] - 16:25, 93:10 103:5 59:8, 71:7 43:4, 48:11, 82:24 referred [11] - 10:15, 16:26, 22:10, 48:5, pursuing [1] - 58:20 RE-EXAMINED [2] - posterity [1] - 91:30 52:14, 58:8, 59:28, push [1] - 34:7 47:25, 71:23 18:7, 41:14, 42:27, posters [6] - 66:26, 67:2, 63:24, 74:6, 74:25, 69:10, 70:7, 79:24, pushed [1] - 92:30 reach [1] - 83:21 67:4, 67:7, 70:10 75:2, 75:18, 77:30, 94:28 put [36] - 8:8, 11:7, 15:19, reached [1] - 48:7 potential [5] - 36:6, profile [5] - 17:10, 19:12, 17:14, 17:17, 18:17, 95:11
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 11 referring [7] - 3:14, 17:1, 10:12, 11:21, 13:21, 81:10 search [1] - 45:11 44:17, 44:25, 45:30, 18:20, 18:22, 30:18, 14:5, 16:7, 16:11, rival [1] - 56:24 searched [1] - 100:3 52:10, 54:7, 54:8, 54:9, 64:27, 77:19 20:10, 22:16, 28:30, Road [1] - 29:23 searches [1] - 10:8 54:18, 57:19, 57:21, refers [1] - 77:23 48:13, 80:9, 91:3, 91:4, road [3] - 40:9, 64:2, second [7] - 1:8, 4:13, 57:23, 58:16, 65:12, refused [2] - 102:11, 91:6, 91:7 64:14 9:3, 12:22, 13:9, 91:1, 73:24, 84:8, 84:10 102:12 reported [2] - 26:5, 76:28 roads [1] - 61:20 91:6 serial [1] - 75:24 regard [10] - 14:10, 46:4, reports [1] - 46:14 Robert [1] - 14:1 secret [1] - 80:8 series [1] - 9:24 46:14, 57:2, 57:18, represent [3] - 40:11, robust [1] - 76:22 secretary [2] - 2:26, 3:27 serious [18] - 6:22, 19:13, 61:5, 64:15, 82:23, 40:12, 47:7 Rodgers [1] - 13:28 Secrets [1] - 95:20 21:11, 22:2, 28:27, 85:30, 89:27 republican [2] - 96:4, role [4] - 33:14, 39:27, section [1] - 11:2 33:20, 36:8, 39:15, regarded [9] - 42:11, 102:11 41:26, 91:24 sections [1] - 31:21 42:1, 85:10, 85:19, 43:17, 78:16, 78:17, reputation [12] - 22:24, room [1] - 3:18 Security [13] - 7:16, 87:10, 88:19, 88:21, 78:19, 84:18, 86:3, 58:21, 59:13, 59:15, roost [1] - 57:11 15:14, 31:7, 31:9, 93:27, 93:28, 99:29, 99:25, 102:7 59:16, 63:14, 68:25, route [3] - 49:16, 49:18, 31:20, 31:22, 33:8, 102:26 regards [3] - 74:29, 80:3 85:3, 85:24, 96:13, 49:25 33:11, 34:30, 36:19, serve [1] - 102:9 region [1] - 11:22 100:23, 100:24 rubbish [1] - 88:12 91:12, 97:28, 102:23 served [9] - 25:30, 26:13, Region [2] - 14:17, 38:20 reputations [1] - 96:25 RUC [38] - 6:18, 9:1, 9:6, security [18] - 11:20, 54:9, 54:12, 65:17, Regional [2] - 11:22, request [10] - 4:8, 9:2, 9:10, 10:6, 10:15, 12:6, 42:11, 64:16, 78:16, 71:29, 101:29, 102:17, 14:17 9:18, 12:6, 37:24, 12:14, 12:27, 13:13, 80:2, 83:22, 84:3, 84:6, 102:30 regret [2] - 3:17, 4:21 46:19, 46:20, 56:2, 13:18, 14:28, 24:23, 84:26, 85:20, 85:22, service [9] - 37:9, 62:16, regular [5] - 8:29, 33:26, 89:1, 90:21 25:13, 29:19, 36:18, 85:23, 87:21, 87:27, 70:7, 83:2, 83:4, 85:15, 38:12, 44:27, 68:2 requested [1] - 4:24 36:22, 36:25, 37:7, 89:8, 102:8, 102:14 96:26, 96:27, 96:28 regularly [2] - 101:19, required [2] - 3:24, 37:2 37:24, 37:28, 38:28, security-conscious [1] - services [1] - 23:22 101:22 requires [1] - 94:24 39:2, 46:6, 46:15, 78:16 serving [6] - 31:2, 69:19, reinvestigate [1] - 8:22 reservoir [1] - 79:8 46:17, 46:21, 48:24, see [27] - 3:15, 3:22, 3:23, 69:30, 70:16, 102:2, relate [2] - 35:22, 59:12 respect [9] - 13:24, 20:21, 48:28, 48:30, 55:8, 3:24, 9:9, 16:12, 16:13, 102:4 relating [1] - 14:19 21:13, 21:14, 40:8, 60:5, 61:24, 71:13, 18:4, 20:24, 22:22, session [4] - 40:26, 52:4, relation [48] - 9:2, 11:19, 42:19, 47:12, 51:6, 77:8, 87:6, 87:11, 90:22 27:5, 27:17, 28:10, 52:6, 81:12 16:29, 18:2, 20:5, 22:2, 51:27 RUC/CID [1] - 13:5 28:20, 33:17, 36:10, set [2] - 29:28, 56:14 23:12, 26:21, 27:22, responding [1] - 37:3 rude [1] - 3:19 46:29, 47:29, 48:23, setting [1] - 10:10 33:15, 33:20, 34:18, response [3] - 56:2, 69:8, ruled [2] - 57:11, 61:16 51:12, 53:6, 65:5, several [5] - 21:30, 39:25, 34:28, 35:25, 39:1, 76:13 rumour [2] - 20:25, 87:14, 87:16, 90:2, 64:14, 80:17, 83:13 46:17, 46:19, 46:22, responsibilities [2] - 100:21 93:4, 94:18 severely [1] - 43:10 67:11, 68:7, 68:14, 100:29 rumours [12] - 68:20, seeing [4] - 3:9, 20:20, shall [1] - 54:20 68:17, 68:23, 68:30, responsibility [2] - 81:20, 83:20, 83:24, 85:2, 67:2, 67:4 shared [1] - 62:16 69:4, 70:17, 73:22, 85:19 85:27, 86:28, 86:29, seeking [3] - 20:18, shock [2] - 7:9, 48:11 74:18, 75:6, 75:28, resting [1] - 98:6 96:13, 96:23, 100:15, 40:18, 43:16 shocked [11] - 37:26, 78:6, 78:7, 78:9, 81:15, restricting [2] - 7:30, 8:1 100:18, 100:20 seem [2] - 83:25, 85:10 38:14, 38:28, 49:27, 81:16, 84:4, 84:26, result [4] - 9:26, 95:4, run [2] - 73:17, 87:5 sees [1] - 4:15 50:5, 51:9, 51:10, 84:27, 85:8, 85:23, 95:7, 97:30 running [1] - 48:25 self [1] - 10:17 51:17, 59:24, 60:13, 90:27, 92:8, 93:1, resume [2] - 72:7, 72:16 rush [1] - 89:29 self-explicit [1] - 10:17 69:5 98:23, 98:26, 101:22, RESUMED [1] - 1:1 Russborough [1] - 17:3 sending [1] - 24:7 shops [2] - 55:30, 56:6 102:6 retained [1] - 23:22 senior [6] - 9:10, 12:14, short [4] - 40:26, 80:15, relations [1] - 36:21 retired [22] - 1:7, 7:3, S 19:3, 25:5, 45:16, 90:29 80:16, 99:17 relationship [1] - 59:11 23:23, 26:28, 26:30, sense [2] - 59:24, 60:24 shorter [1] - 80:26 relayed [1] - 37:6 27:3, 27:11, 33:2, sadly [1] - 28:28 sensitive [11] - 10:20, shortly [1] - 81:27 release [1] - 4:15 44:16, 44:25, 50:7, safe [1] - 53:6 42:1, 42:10, 42:19, shoulders [1] - 97:16 relying [2] - 19:5, 35:17 54:7, 54:18, 59:25, safety [2] - 40:20, 95:26 44:3, 44:8, 49:28, show [1] - 22:28 remain [1] - 96:28 65:11, 69:20, 69:22, satisfied [2] - 22:26, 49:29, 81:9, 91:8, 94:8 shown [1] - 22:28 remaining [1] - 14:11 71:26, 71:29, 72:2, 22:30 sent [6] - 18:30, 19:4, sic [1] - 40:4 remand [1] - 99:30 84:15, 101:28 Saturday [1] - 82:5 54:11, 54:14, 80:8, sick [1] - 24:11 remanded [1] - 99:29 retirement [5] - 6:11, saw [3] - 59:2, 67:7, 102:14 side [3] - 46:28, 48:24, remarkable [1] - 55:3 19:19, 59:21, 70:16, 68:12 sentence [7] - 26:13, 48:30 remarkably [1] - 55:13 70:20 scale [3] - 56:15, 57:1, 95:7, 101:29, 102:2, sight [2] - 88:2, 88:6 remember [15] - 21:15, retrospect [1] - 64:8 57:13 102:4, 102:17, 102:30 sign [1] - 26:24 21:16, 30:14, 56:5, return [1] - 84:21 scanning [3] - 74:25, sentenced [2] - 95:19, signals [4] - 76:8, 77:17, 57:24, 57:26, 57:27, returned [2] - 12:16, 77:7 75:17, 76:7 102:25 77:22, 77:25 66:29, 67:2, 67:3, 67:8, reveal [1] - 21:26 scenario [1] - 25:8 sentences [1] - 102:9 signature [1] - 16:7 69:29, 81:23, 99:22, revealing [1] - 36:12 scene [1] - 60:4 separate [3] - 6:24, 7:21, signed [1] - 14:16 102:22 revisit [2] - 47:27, 80:23 schedule [2] - 72:12, 7:22 significance [5] - 82:3, remind [2] - 38:12, 41:11 rid [1] - 68:27 103:11 September [1] - 14:8 82:7, 90:10, 102:2, reminded [1] - 104:2 rightly [1] - 94:7 school [2] - 77:6, 87:16 SEPTEMBER [2] - 1:1, 102:4 removing [1] - 97:1 ring [2] - 26:27, 27:16 screaming [1] - 17:24 104:9 significant [1] - 75:5 repeat [1] - 95:23 ringer [1] - 82:20 Sean [14] - 7:3, 9:1, 9:12, sequence [1] - 61:12 significantly [1] - 79:13 repeated [1] - 68:3 rise [1] - 91:22 10:6, 11:27, 15:4, 15:6, sergeant [5] - 10:15, signing [1] - 26:5 15:8, 15:14, 17:29, replied [1] - 103:30 risen [1] - 6:9 12:23, 25:28, 45:2, similar [1] - 21:14 26:3, 28:23, 28:28, reply [1] - 10:3 risk [6] - 35:8, 42:11, 57:27 simply [1] - 51:7 83:14 report [17] - 9:13, 10:9, 79:20, 79:23, 79:27, Sergeant [17] - 12:20, Sinn [1] - 96:4
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 12
Siochana [59] - 1:8, 6:9, 36:11, 36:13, 65:2, station [13] - 19:12, 58:17, 65:27, 74:13, surprised [8] - 37:29, 6:20, 9:16, 14:16, 89:20, 100:12 25:16, 29:21, 29:23, 77:25, 78:4, 96:2, 99:20 48:15, 50:3, 50:11, 17:12, 27:5, 31:2, 31:3, sources [6] - 8:4, 33:21, 29:25, 31:29, 37:9, succeed [2] - 39:30, 50:15, 50:22, 75:7 33:19, 33:23, 33:28, 36:1, 36:6, 65:3 60:9, 60:15, 60:22, 79:25 surprises [1] - 49:25 34:21, 36:25, 38:17, south [12] - 10:30, 11:22, 60:29, 66:2, 83:11 succeeded [1] - 27:6 surrounded [1] - 64:13 39:22, 39:30, 42:4, 30:7, 56:19, 78:8, Station [11] - 13:2, 13:11, successful [1] - 97:18 surrounding [1] - 46:10 42:6, 42:21, 42:23, 78:11, 78:21, 78:25, 19:8, 31:29, 62:11, successfully [1] - 55:26 surrounds [1] - 29:27 43:3, 43:23, 44:11, 79:1, 79:20, 80:13, 62:17, 64:8, 64:13, such-and-such [1] - surveillance [11] - 21:4, 46:23, 47:16, 49:1, 87:15 70:8, 70:9, 83:9 35:11 21:22, 25:19, 25:22, 50:8, 54:5, 54:26, South [3] - 12:1, 12:12, stationed [2] - 62:11, suffer [2] - 66:10, 66:13 30:5, 33:22, 36:9, 55:14, 62:8, 63:30, 14:17 83:4 suffered [2] - 66:15, 55:20, 64:20, 66:6 66:1, 66:19, 69:19, southern [1] - 6:30 stayed [1] - 60:27 66:24 survival [1] - 95:29 69:26, 70:1, 71:11, span [1] - 9:29 stealing [1] - 82:11 sufficient [2] - 24:2, suspect [2] - 21:24, 24:1 75:7, 84:7, 84:28, spanned [1] - 54:5 step [1] - 50:2 95:17 suspected [3] - 20:4, 85:21, 87:25, 89:14, spanning [1] - 9:25 steps [2] - 4:30, 96:12 suggest [9] - 27:16, 28:3, 21:3, 84:28 91:23, 91:25, 92:6, special [1] - 96:14 Steven [1] - 13:28 37:7, 48:27, 61:12, suspects [2] - 39:23, 93:26, 93:29, 94:4, Special [19] - 12:28, stick [3] - 96:24, 96:25, 71:11, 77:16, 78:3, 45:12 95:10, 95:12, 96:18, 13:13, 13:18, 37:16, 96:27 86:10 suspicions [1] - 37:17 99:19, 100:13, 100:17, 37:28, 49:12, 49:21, sticklers [1] - 92:16 suggested [4] - 23:22, switch [2] - 59:17, 62:25 101:1 49:30, 73:19, 73:20, still [5] - 23:18, 27:1, 40:1, 51:26, 86:7 SWORN [3] - 6:1, 54:1, sister [1] - 24:20 73:24, 77:14, 84:1, 56:8, 93:22, 98:27 suggesting [4] - 35:16, 73:10 sitting [1] - 1:29 95:19, 100:5, 101:13, sting [1] - 22:1 50:30, 52:24 sworn [1] - 95:21 situation [2] - 35:26, 85:1 101:16, 101:19, 102:25 stipulations [1] - 34:4 suggestion [8] - 2:16, sympathies [1] - 96:3 six [4] - 78:14, 79:1, 79:4, specialist [1] - 21:11 stole [2] - 81:18, 82:20 49:2, 86:11, 87:24, system [2] - 33:18, 74:20 81:26 specific [2] - 87:2, 87:4 stolen [5] - 81:22, 81:26, 89:4, 90:18, 97:25, skills [2] - 22:14, 65:24 specifically [2] - 11:19, 81:30, 82:4, 82:15 100:12 T slightest [1] - 100:12 87:7 stood [1] - 43:23 suggestions [2] - 80:19, slot [1] - 26:25 speculating [1] - 69:23 stop [1] - 34:17 86:13 tactfully [1] - 92:23 slow [2] - 86:3, 89:19 speculation [1] - 85:2 stopped [1] - 82:27 summary [2] - 16:7, 99:8 talkie [1] - 76:3 smuggled [1] - 20:5 spent [2] - 24:11, 73:19 stories [1] - 18:1 summoned [2] - 3:1, 4:19 talkies [1] - 76:2 smugglers [1] - 56:27 spoken [2] - 8:29, 59:12 story [2] - 37:22, 89:1 summons [1] - 3:2 tangible [1] - 94:10 smuggling [17] - 20:25, Square [6] - 6:21, 7:1, straightaway [1] - 25:16 Sunday [1] - 38:24 target [3] - 14:22, 30:26, 56:13, 56:18, 56:26, 32:30, 83:28, 83:30, strategic [1] - 94:8 Superintendent [48] - 81:4 targeted [1] - 66:12 56:28, 56:30, 57:5, 97:24 Street [1] - 83:16 8:30, 10:14, 11:3, 14:2, 57:13, 86:12, 86:14, task [11] - 38:11, 38:20, Staff [1] - 10:14 stress [3] - 27:24, 28:14, 14:3, 15:4, 17:29, 22:4, 86:15, 86:17, 86:18, staff [1] - 85:21 52:21 27:20, 28:23, 28:26, 38:21, 40:5, 40:6, 86:21, 86:24 41:30, 42:1, 42:5, stage [18] - 3:16, 3:17, strong [2] - 3:11, 45:20 29:21, 33:1, 34:30, social [1] - 16:25 42:10, 44:3, 44:8 7:13, 26:28, 32:29, structure [1] - 78:28 37:13, 37:14, 38:6, society [1] - 68:26 TD [1] - 8:19 33:1, 37:7, 39:4, 43:7, structures [3] - 93:5, 38:10, 44:19, 45:4, someone [4] - 7:24, 76:19, 76:21, 81:12, 93:8, 93:9 45:27, 45:28, 46:13, team [4] - 46:26, 46:29, 13:10, 97:25, 101:14 62:20, 74:30 84:22, 86:8, 86:19, studied [2] - 73:28, 73:29 46:21, 46:27, 47:13, someplace [2] - 82:21, 47:28, 48:7, 48:17, technical [2] - 13:9, 36:8 88:29, 95:15, 97:5 stupid [1] - 64:9 102:14 49:3, 49:13, 49:21, technological [1] - 74:22 stale [1] - 98:23 subject [1] - 81:8 sometime [2] - 29:22, 49:22, 73:27, 73:28, technology [6] - 74:18, stamp [1] - 96:12 submission [1] - 5:3 60:27 76:28, 88:16, 90:13, 74:20, 74:29, 75:10, stand [2] - 59:30, 99:11 submitted [1] - 24:13 sometimes [2] - 80:30, 90:22, 91:3, 91:5, 76:1, 78:10 standard [1] - 23:1 subordinates [1] - 20:11 89:23 93:13, 97:29, 101:21 telephone [1] - 33:22 standing [2] - 30:20, subpoena [1] - 1:17 somewhere [2] - 37:8, Superintendents [1] - telephoned [1] - 13:14 79:15 subsequently [3] - 20:17, 90:20 10:6 television [1] - 56:14 start [4] - 25:20, 35:17, 88:13, 90:11 soon [1] - 20:28 superintendents [2] - ten [4] - 3:20, 3:21, 60:26, 89:30, 91:1 substance [3] - 90:3, sophisticated [7] - 74:19, 92:15, 92:16 75:23 started [7] - 6:13, 20:17, 90:4 74:21, 74:28, 74:29, superior [4] - 59:3, 74:10, tend [1] - 34:20 20:26, 50:20, 73:16, Substances [1] - 100:5 75:3, 76:24, 80:14 73:18, 83:5 75:26, 96:19 term [1] - 82:18 substantial [2] - 44:10, sophistication [2] - 75:9, superiors [1] - 37:16 starting [1] - 35:18 57:1 terms [18] - 1:29, 5:4, 78:9 supplied [1] - 48:16 12:11, 21:26, 36:23, State [15] - 32:11, 78:13, substantiate [3] - 12:7, sorry [7] - 5:4, 41:11, support [1] - 12:7 38:26, 46:4, 63:21, 82:2, 84:6, 84:27, 32:15, 89:25 48:19, 50:21, 62:29, suppose [17] - 32:11, 64:17, 64:19, 66:28, 85:20, 87:27, 94:20, substantiated [1] - 89:20 92:27, 92:29 95:27, 95:30, 96:15, 42:14, 55:19, 56:20, 70:15, 71:6, 71:7, 75:8, subversion [1] - 97:14 sort [17] - 17:27, 25:18, 99:27, 102:8 57:4, 58:9, 58:25, 59:2, 78:18, 84:3 subversive [18] - 33:12, 26:27, 31:24, 34:19, 59:13, 59:24, 61:14, terrorist [2] - 10:4, 79:17 statement [6] - 14:7, 33:13, 45:8, 63:10, 34:20, 38:25, 48:3, 64:1, 69:17, 82:17, THE [18] - 1:1, 32:21, 14:8, 19:28, 43:2, 43:6, 63:21, 63:28, 65:22, 55:24, 57:6, 59:16, 84:12, 96:23, 102:5 39:8, 44:14, 47:9, 43:10 66:26, 69:14, 73:23, 64:11, 64:22, 66:12, surely [2] - 37:30, 49:29 47:25, 53:10, 62:6, Statement [1] - 24:23 73:24, 96:3, 99:26, 80:2, 85:13, 86:28 surface [1] - 8:10 65:9, 71:23, 72:18, statements [3] - 10:12, 101:15, 101:24, 102:6, sorts [1] - 89:15 surmise [1] - 19:7 73:1, 99:13, 101:8, 10:17, 24:1 102:16, 102:27 sought [4] - 20:17, 44:7, surprise [5] - 48:11, 104:8 States [4] - 33:26, 75:13, subversives [14] - 6:25, 56:24, 60:1 50:23, 50:25, 69:14, theft [3] - 17:1, 39:14, 75:15, 75:21 6:29, 14:13, 14:30, source [7] - 30:30, 35:28, 90:16 40:8 stating [2] - 42:9, 44:6 34:29, 52:11, 58:13,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 13 themselves [3] - 55:20, town [1] - 66:27 18:24, 19:7, 19:11, unusual [4] - 68:5, 68:9, walkie-talkie [1] - 76:3 61:22, 75:12 Tracy [1] - 13:28 25:25, 29:19, 31:17, 93:23, 94:16 walkie-talkies [1] - 76:2 THEN [2] - 53:10, 72:18 trail [2] - 93:17 34:26, 38:29, 40:24, up [25] - 19:22, 22:30, walking [1] - 36:26 there'd [1] - 68:9 train [1] - 97:20 43:3, 46:6, 47:23, 51:2, 24:1, 24:5, 25:20, wall [1] - 92:20 thereafter [3] - 1:20, 4:10, transfer [6] - 31:19, 60:5, 60:27, 61:27, 29:19, 29:23, 38:23, Wall [1] - 81:28 24:9 88:17, 90:23, 97:19, 71:13, 72:7, 72:16, 43:11, 43:23, 46:1, wants [1] - 41:4 therefore [2] - 63:27, 97:20, 97:30 76:3, 86:7, 93:6, 98:1, 46:26, 47:13, 47:28, war [1] - 65:28 92:22 transferred [4] - 32:3, 98:7 48:25, 49:11, 50:7, WAS [13] - 6:1, 32:21, thinking [4] - 23:13, 62:1, 49:4, 90:12, 97:23 two-and-a-half [1] - 98:1 51:19, 59:30, 61:20, 39:8, 44:14, 47:9, 70:14, 70:15 Transit [2] - 82:9, 82:11 two-way [1] - 76:3 70:15, 74:1, 78:21, 47:25, 54:1, 62:6, 65:9, third [1] - 13:13 transmission [1] - 14:15 type [13] - 21:6, 25:2, 84:14, 85:1 71:23, 73:10, 99:13, thirteen [1] - 3:21 transmitted [1] - 76:8 27:21, 45:2, 45:29, uphill [1] - 55:25 101:8 thorough [3] - 22:9, transport [3] - 81:15, 48:4, 48:22, 58:11, uphold [1] - 95:26 watching [1] - 13:1 28:24, 98:4 81:17, 81:19 77:18, 89:21, 93:3, upright [1] - 22:9 ways [2] - 21:30, 40:24 thoroughfare [1] - 64:15 transporting [2] - 82:13 93:20, 93:24 useful [1] - 33:30 weaponry [4] - 74:28, thoroughness [1] - 44:19 travelled [1] - 41:29 types [2] - 34:21, 81:19 utter [1] - 88:12 75:2, 75:3, 75:10 thoughts [3] - 69:12, travelling [1] - 14:23 utterly [1] - 37:26 weapons [2] - 30:21, 75:6 71:2, 71:4 treachery [1] - 87:29 U Wednesday [2] - 10:7, threat [6] - 36:16, 51:26, TRIBUNAL [4] - 1:1, V 11:26 UCD [1] - 73:30 51:30, 84:5, 99:27, 72:18, 73:1, 104:8 week [3] - 80:22, 80:28, UK [2] - 33:24, 99:25 vaguely [2] - 21:16 102:7 Tribunal [32] - 1:18, 1:19, 101:27 ultimate [2] - 8:21, 36:17 valuable [1] - 17:2 three [6] - 6:30, 13:4, 1:26, 2:11, 2:21, 2:22, weeks [1] - 39:24 ultimately [6] - 9:12, value [1] - 87:12 36:3, 57:18, 83:30, 2:28, 3:7, 3:9, 3:15, welcome [1] - 4:5 15:17, 42:14, 54:7, van [2] - 82:3, 82:9 98:25 4:12, 4:25, 16:19, 38:8, welcomed [1] - 2:27 57:21, 63:9 vans [2] - 81:18, 82:11 threw [1] - 40:28 40:16, 51:29, 52:1, well-known [2] - 7:8, unbelievable [1] - 38:27 various [6] - 31:21, 33:20, throughout [3] - 82:2, 64:5, 66:18, 71:7, 39:22 under [12] - 16:7, 38:5, 50:28, 66:28, 67:5, 94:17, 96:28 73:18, 80:19, 81:3, well.. [1] - 52:20 39:18, 39:20, 46:5, 80:20 throw [1] - 96:24 87:3, 87:7, 87:8, 90:9, wellbeing [1] - 40:11 55:23, 55:27, 80:27, vast [3] - 43:19, 74:12, tides [1] - 57:15 90:15, 93:22, 100:11, whatsoever [1] - 87:24 85:21, 91:27, 93:21, 101:14 tight [1] - 100:24 103:15 wheeling [1] - 86:12 100:4 vehicle [3] - 82:19, 82:20, time.. [1] - 94:21 Tribunal's [4] - 1:16, whereas [3] - 6:29, 46:27, undertaken [1] - 10:9 82:21 timely [1] - 1:28 1:25, 25:26, 62:19 83:25 undoubtedly [1] - 56:9 vehicles [3] - 81:26, timing [2] - 60:25, 80:3 tried [2] - 17:30, 92:23 whereby [1] - 54:25 uneasy [1] - 12:19 81:29 timings [1] - 61:12 Trim [4] - 54:14, 60:7, whilst [1] - 70:16 unfolded [1] - 81:3 ventilate [1] - 67:25 tip [4] - 7:30, 8:2, 8:10, 60:8, 60:17 white [1] - 67:9 unforeseen [1] - 103:11 verbal [1] - 66:13 13:15 Trim' [1] - 60:18 whole [1] - 22:19 unfortunate [1] - 96:29 verbally [1] - 91:14 tip-off [3] - 7:30, 8:2, 8:10 Trinity [1] - 74:1 Wicklow [1] - 17:3 unfortunately [4] - 28:29, view [28] - 1:26, 2:12, tipped [1] - 7:24 trip [1] - 8:4 wide [2] - 45:5, 96:11 77:26, 96:30, 98:29 20:1, 20:13, 20:15, tired [1] - 68:3 tripping [1] - 86:9 wide-enough [1] - 96:11 unhappy [1] - 67:13 21:17, 22:12, 30:10, Toby [3] - 10:16, 12:1, troops [5] - 87:9, 87:13, widen [1] - 35:14 uniform [1] - 55:1 38:3, 40:29, 51:10, 12:12 87:15, 87:17 wider [1] - 9:18 uniformed [7] - 25:28, 51:19, 57:10, 58:30, today [8] - 1:30, 36:24, trouble [2] - 52:8, 103:13 widespread [2] - 84:23, 45:2, 45:6, 45:7, 57:27, 59:30, 60:21, 61:17, 50:12, 64:6, 80:11, Troubles [1] - 83:5 73:18, 83:5 61:30, 63:21, 64:14, 86:2 86:29, 103:11, 103:18 trucks [1] - 81:22 William [1] - 13:27 unit [13] - 6:21, 6:24, 69:13, 74:22, 74:23, together [2] - 46:15, 75:1 true [8] - 17:9, 23:29, 22:27, 34:25, 34:28, 80:1, 81:2, 81:4, 85:3, willing [1] - 69:30 Tom [16] - 22:5, 22:7, 28:17, 28:19, 45:10, 61:20, 78:11, 78:12, 94:2 willy [1] - 89:13 31:27, 37:14, 47:28, 48:28, 49:2 78:16, 78:20, 78:25, viewability [1] - 64:17 willy-nilly [1] - 89:13 48:1, 49:7, 49:14, 50:3, trust [5] - 10:19, 42:6, [1] 87:15 viewable [1] - 64:7 Wilson - 13:27 50:6, 50:16, 50:29, 48:28, 49:1, 50:1 [1] Unit [12] - 6:22, 7:15, viewed [1] - 64:7 windows - 67:4 83:17, 88:16, 90:13, trusted [2] - 28:4, 28:7 [2] 16:29, 32:27, 33:6, views [3] - 3:11, 22:7, wing - 101:30, 102:3 90:18 truth [3] - 19:15, 24:5, 34:24, 52:28, 73:20, 22:11 wise [1] - 64:8 tomorrow [2] - 92:1, 51:3 73:25, 84:2, 101:14, vigour [1] - 58:19 wish [3] - 4:25, 103:27 103:22 try [6] - 19:14, 41:19, 101:16 violence [1] - 43:24 wished [1] - 3:23 Tony [1] - 10:26 57:8, 68:6, 69:15, 93:18 United [5] - 33:25, 75:13, virtue [1] - 87:25 wishes [2] - 1:21, 2:11 took [7] - 33:14, 49:11, trying [4] - 20:24, 39:24, 75:15, 75:21, 99:28 vision [1] - 70:30 withdraw [1] - 99:24 74:1, 82:22, 90:13, 83:23, 94:20 units [5] - 21:12, 33:25, visited [2] - 19:8, 19:11 WITHDREW [1] - 53:10 95:14 Tuite [4] - 99:23, 99:28, 78:14, 78:27, 82:1 visitors [1] - 64:26 WITNESS [11] - 32:21, top [8] - 6:10, 10:15, 100:4 unless [1] - 102:9 visits [1] - 13:6 39:8, 44:14, 47:9, 59:19, 63:15, 65:14, turn [3] - 49:14, 86:28, 47:25, 53:10, 62:6, unnecessary [1] - 1:24 vital [2] - 63:9, 63:18 65:18, 65:22, 69:13 96:2 65:9, 71:23, 99:13, unorthodox [2] - 48:21, volunteers [8] - 78:21, topic [2] - 59:5, 60:19 turned [3] - 26:6, 74:4, 49:5 78:22, 79:5, 79:6, 79:8, 101:8 totally [7] - 6:26, 44:11, 74:8 unsatisfactory [1] - 4:29 79:9, 81:17, 82:13 Witness [2] - 76:26, 49:4, 50:17, 50:19, turning [2] - 57:29, 60:5 unsolved [1] - 9:24 77:30 61:16 turns [1] - 14:9 unstructured [1] - 93:25 witness [21] - 1:7, 1:8, touched [2] - 17:30, 64:6 twenty [1] - 60:28 W UNTIL [1] - 104:8 1:12, 1:17, 1:20, 1:27, touching [1] - 14:29 two [32] - 1:6, 6:18, untoward [1] - 94:10 wait [2] - 2:29, 3:20 3:7, 3:9, 3:30, 4:6, 4:18, towards [5] - 84:26, 10:12, 13:1, 13:5, untrue [1] - 23:24 walkie [2] - 76:2, 76:3 4:26, 7:2, 22:18, 53:12, 85:14, 96:4, 96:5 18:10, 18:11, 18:19,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 15 September 2011 - Day 34 14
73:5, 97:2, 100:16 witnessed [1] - 70:10 witnesses [7] - 1:6, 1:15, 1:16, 4:14, 43:19, 80:20 wondered [2] - 59:25, 70:26 woodwork [1] - 85:11 word [4] - 7:6, 60:10, 98:9, 99:24 words [5] - 35:8, 35:14, 46:30, 49:9, 67:10 world [1] - 83:4 worry [2] - 22:20, 48:20 worthy [1] - 67:17 write [1] - 10:2 writes [1] - 9:15 writing [3] - 91:13, 91:28, 92:6 written [6] - 22:22, 62:22, 62:27, 63:24, 66:28, 92:11 wrongdoing [2] - 94:3, 94:9 wrongly [1] - 94:7 wrote [1] - 46:18
Y year [3] - 6:17, 8:14, 88:3 years [22] - 28:13, 54:5, 55:14, 58:5, 73:19, 74:16, 75:12, 75:24, 77:8, 83:2, 83:16, 84:19, 85:2, 92:14, 95:19, 95:25, 96:5, 98:1, 98:7, 100:6, 101:15, 101:21 yesterday [4] - 7:3, 7:18, 83:14, 97:25 young [1] - 85:15 younger [1] - 22:29 yourself [4] - 27:10, 37:25, 42:29, 66:7
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.