Maksoud 11 Aug 1997 Transcript
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S'JI'.fl11ftS'JI'(l11fi oRALoRAL HIS'rORYHIS'rORY •~ (02)(02)/M235 /M235 Yale-UNYale-UN OralOral HistoryHistory ProjectProject ClovisClovis MaksoudMaksoud JeanJean Krasno,Krasno, InterviewerInterviewer AugustAugust 11,11, 19971997 WashingtonWashington D.e.D.C. Yale-UN Oral History Project Clovis MaksouMaksoudd Jean Krasno, IntervieweInterviewerr August 11, 19919977 Washington D.CD.C.. Index:Index: Middle East Arab League Education, Cultural and Scientific Org. (ALEC(ALECSO)SO) 5 Arab League CommitteCommitteee 19-20 Arab League Secretary GeneraGenerall 4 Arab LeaguLeaguee 1-20,23-28,30,36 Arab NationalisNationalismm 10,28 Baghdad Summit ConferencConferencee 23 Bush AdministratioAdministrationn 34 Charter of thethe Arab LeaguLeaguee 4,25-26 Committee of 7 7,9 Committee of Three of thethe Arab LeaguLeaguee 17-19]7-19 Economic SanctionSanctionss 32-34 Egyptian Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite (UARS(UARS)) 2 EjectionEjectionss 2121 Ford FoundatioFoundationn 12-13 GoGoaa 1-2]-2 Gulf WaWarr 23-25,27,29-31,33 IndianIndian CoullciCoul1ciII 1 IndianIndian Liberation 2 Iran/IraqIran/Iraq War 6-16,30-31 IranianIranian Delegation 8 IraqiIraqi Delegation 3 IslamicIslamic Conference 1313 Kashmir Crisis 2,28 Kurds 15-1715-17 Kuwait Delegation 33 Lebanese War 13,13, 16-18,16-18, 2020 The New York Times 55 Oil Embargo ofl970sof 1970s 55 Peacekeeping 2020 Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO)(PLO) 55 Resolution 425 2121 Resolution 508 2121 Resolution 509 2121 Resolution 514 9-109-10 Resolution 520 2121 Resolution 522 1010 Taif Agreement 18,2118,21 UN Educational, ScientificScientific andand CulturalCultural OrganizationOrganization (UNESCO)(UNESCO) 55 United NationsNations GeneralGeneral AssemblyAssembly 5,7,5,7, 12,12, 1919 United StatesStates JusticeJustice DepartmentDepartment 55 UNUN SpecialSpecial CommissionCommission (UNSCOM)(UNSCOM) 35-3635-36 World PolicyPolicy JournalJournal 2424 WeaponsWeapons ofof MassMass DestructionDestruction 14,35,14,35, 1414 Yale-UN Oral History Project Clovis MaksoudMaksoud Jean Krasno, InterviewerInterviewer August 11, 19971997 in Washington, D. C.C. Jean Krasno: For the record, Mr. Maksoud, could you explain your role in the Arab League, and when you began your diplomatic career? Clovis Maksoud: I am not a professional diplomat, I was appointed the first time to thethe Arab League, inin order to establish the Arab League mission in New Delhi on February 4th,til, 1961. ButBu1. II suppose you are interested only in the UN part. JK: Well, more inin relationshiprelationship toto thethe UN, but also it is good to establish something aboutabout youryour background. CM:CM: II waswas aa politicalpolitical appointee at thethe time.time. That experience helped me a great deal in establishingestablishing closeclose relationshipsrelationships with thethe IndianIndian leadership,leadership, especially with Pauslit, Nehru, andand alsoalso withwith Mrs.Mrs. GandhiGandhi andand Mr.Mr. Shastri.Shastri. ItIt was a very interestinginteresting period forfor me becausebecause thatthat waswas thethe timetime II waswas preparingpreparing forfor thethe liberationliberation of Goa, and thethe IndianIndian CouncilCouncil onon AfricaAfrica invitedinvited me,me, thethe firstfirst dayday II waswas there.there. ThereThere waswas an invitationinvitation forfor all thethe leaders,leaders, manymany ofofwhom whom becamebecame headsheads ofof statestate inin AfricaAfrica oftheof the nationalnational movementsmovements inin thethe 2 Portuguese colonies. The conference was a prelude to India's liberation of Goa from the Portuguese enclave in India. JK: I see. CM: During that period, of the five and a half years I spent in India, there was the war with China, and that was a testing ground for Arab diplomacy, and especially during President Nasser's regime, and the role he played in organizing the peace settlement later on. Because of Egyptian DARUAR at the time and the Burmese and the Sri Lankans and other non-aligned cOlmtries took the initiative to try and bring peace. Anyway, that was a great, enriching experience, the first test of non-alignment in resolving a conflict and with all the ramifications that it had on the non-aligned movement. That was in 1962. JK: What is your country of origin? CM: Lebanon. Then there was, in 1965, the Kashmir crisis, which was endemic and led to the war between India and Pakistan. That too was another testing ground for the Arab League and the challenged to answer "Are we pro-India, pro-Pakistan?" The Arabs wel'e divided in that; some were pro-Pakistan and perceived as great supporters of Palestinian rights in addition to being a Muslim country. On the other hand, Nelu'u and Nasser were very close and Nehru played a very important role, a pivotal role, in the nonnon- aligned movement. Many Arabs did not think that religious bonds should be the criteria for political judgments, except in a very marginal way. So, that was another test for the -2-2- • 3 Arab League, especially when the Arab heads of state met inin Rabbat atat thethe time,time, toto trytry -- and resolve the issue. Anyhow, these are the two major confrontations, withwith ChinaChina ---- aa -- non-aligned countly with a communist country with implicationsimplications forfor thethe SovietSoviet UnionUnion ~ and the American situation at the time; it was a learning experience ---- andand thenthen thethe ~ Pakistani-Indian conflict, as well as the fact that inin thethe period thatthat II was there,there, II worked with three Prime Ministers, Nehru,Nehru, Shastri, and the first govenunent of Mrs. Gandhi.Gandhi. What I am trying to summarize here is the fact that,that, firstfirst itit was aa greatgreat learninglearning experience, it has enabled me to network with a great number ofintellectualsintellectuals andand politicalpolitical leaders from India and the region (because I was also accredited at Nepal andand SriSri LankaLanka and Burma), so in a way, that region became a very importantimportant dimension ofof mymy lifelife expenence. JK: And, what was your first contact with the United Nations? CM:eM: The first contact with the United Nations was inin 1967, but inin aa veryvery adad hochoc manner. In 1967, we were at a conference in Algeria when tensiontension between EgyptEgypt andand Israel arose towards the end of May. Some of us were asked at thethe timetime thatthat wewe shouldshould explain the Arab point of view; a couple went to France, and II went toto thethe UnitedUnited StatesStates with Fayez Sayegh and Wallid Khalidi. But in order toto be able toto have accessaccess andand explain the Arab position, we became advisors in respective Arab delegations. WallidWallid Khalidi joined the Iraqi delegation, Fayez Sayegh thethe Kuwaiti delegation, andand II thethe Lebanese delegation. We were marginal. This was justjust a sort ofan ad hochoc positionposition advisory, but that was my first contact with the United Nations. After that,that, II waswas inin CairoCairo - 3 - • 4 in the Arab League at that time after I had left India. I resigned from the Arab League • around early July 1967, and retumed to work in al-Ahram in Cairo. I wrote several • articles on India, several commentaries, etc. And then I went back, in 1971, to Lebanon to practice law and also to edit the weekly edition ofal-Nahar. Then, in 1974, although it • wasn't a In\TUJ\T experience as such, I came to the United States as a special envoy of the .. Arab League summit, to explain to the American public and decision-makers the reasons ~ for the oil embargo. That enabled me to have an unprecedented access and exposure to interesting people, greatly motivated to hear our views at the time. That gave me a great ~ deal of exposure in the media and the television. I met several of the leading newsmen in ~ the U.S., and that facilitated my subsequent assignment to the United States and the United Nations in September 1979. JK: And when did that assigmnent begin? eM:CM: Egypt was suspended from the Arab League in July 1979, during the Baghdad summit conference, because of its peace treaty with Israel, which was considered to be a violation of the charter of the Arab League. I, at that time, wrote an open letter to the new Secretary-General, whom I did not lmow, in the newspaper of which I was the editor. It was a huge open letter about the future of the Arab League, and the fact that Egypt is not within its ranks now, and thus its ensuing responsibilities. He didn't know me. I didn't know him either. The Arab League Secretary General Chedli Klibi explained who I was. He invited me to come to Tunis, where the League Headquarters are, and offered me the job. I was taken aback, because I was very critical of the Arab League. Anyhow, I said - 4 - III 55 III "Well, I'll take it for a year." I came, and II assumed mymy newnew responsibilitiesresponsibilities inin NewNew York on the first of September 1979. . There were two major crises upon my arrival: oneone waswas whenwhen AndrewAndrew Young,Young, .. Ambassador ofthe United States, met with thethe PLO representativerepresentative ZuhdiZuhdi TaraziTarazi inin .. violation of a ban by the U.S.,US., and thatthat automatically projectedprojected thethe LeagueLeague asas anan important player in the United Nations and inin thethe UnitedUnited StatesStates ---- thatthat waswas thethe secondsecond dayday of my taking over! I was trying toto structure my office.office. AtAt thatthat time,time, also,also, thisthis issueissue ofof black-Arabs relations, and Rev. Jesse Jackson came toto seesee me,me, andand thenthen II waswas takentaken abackaback by the rush of events. I was often inin interviewsinterviews andand allall that.that. II securedsecured aa contributioncontribution fromfrom the Arab League's UNESCO, ALECSO itit isis called, forfor thethe "Push"Push forfor thethe Excellence"Excellence" ofof the organization, of $200,000. The New York Times thethe nextnext dayday hadhad aa headlineheadline onon thethe first page that said "The Arab League gives JesseJesse JacksonJackson $100,000"$100,000" andand II calledcalled themthem upup and said "No, it's $200,000,11 after II had been assured byby thethe JusticeJustice Depa11mentDepa11ment thatthat aa contribution to a non-profit organization isis legal.legal.