OVERVIEWS OF ORAL HISTORY

Panelists

Peter Stursberg -- author, former broadcaster, adjunct professor, Simon Fraser University

Richard Lochead -- archivist, National Film, Television and Sound Archives. President, COHA

11Oral History and the Electronic Age'' two large boxes weighing &me 80 pounds. by Peter Stursberg They were the finest hi-fidelity equip- ment of the times, the latest of the 'state of art' and they were described as portable. They were portable in the Although Oral History is as old as sense that they could be carried around history itself, as an organized activi- on a jeep. This was in the dark ages ty, as a popular movement, or pastime, before the transistor and before high- it is a child of the electronic age. tech and miniaturization. The first time That child grew up at the same speed as that 1 worked with tape - the tape as we the recording equipment grew smaller know it now, the electronic tape - was until it has become the giant that it is in the early '50s at the United Nations. today. I remember it well because when I was I suppose the first oral history recording my reports and commentaries in recordings of the electronic age were the '50s I used to say, "I'll pause five the war reports of the CBC war corres- seconds for spiralling." And I no lon- pondents, the piles of aluminum backed ger had to say that now that we had a platters which cluttered up the newsroom tape recorder, but I went on saying it of the corporation after VE Day. One of The first portable tape recorder was the first jobs that Norman DePoe had was the Webcore, which was a bulky object to make a selection of these war re- and seemed heavy although it probably ports, which were meant for the CBC weighed about 25 pounds, a third of the archives and have since been turned over weight of our old wartime equipment. to the Public Archives of Canada. I Imagine Please, the latest of the Sound understand from Ernie Dick, that they Heritage Series [has] a picture of an have the full war report now in the early portable tape recorder around 1947 Public Archives of Canada. I forget how threaded with a reel of paper-based many of the war reports were in the recording tape. This wasn't the tape Norman DePoe Collection, but it would that we know now. I never worked with have been somewhere in the neighbourhood paper tape. I wonder whether it worked. of 30 or 40 hours. The full Collection, I know this, that they had a magnetic as I understand, runs from 600 hours and wire recorder which we used at the that is uncatalogued. end of the war, and it was just hope- We war correspondents had a recording less. The fidelity on it was very low device, a disc recorder which came in and also it was impossible to edit. It took sometime before we had truly talking than when writing. There ' s portable tape recorders, which could be something about the act of putting pen carried over your shoulder or put in to paper that makes for caution, dull- your pocket. And by the time that occu- ness and officialese. Now, some people rred which was in the '70s the newspaper wonder why this should be. I know that reporters threw away their note books Norman DePoe who was a correspondent in and took to recording press conferences the parliamentary press gallery, at the and statements and that's why there is a same time that I was, was quite aston- forest of mikes before every talking ished at some of the revelations in my politician. books on Diefenbaker. I think the rea- I did my first oral history inter- son is that the average person is more views in the early '60s - that was for comfortable in conversation, as he or the CBC. The CBC was really the initia- she does makes most arrangements, does tor of oral history in Canada. Although most of the business on the telephone, of course we didn't call it that at that particularly here in Canada where we are time. The term oral history is only a the greatest telephone callers in the little more than 10 years old. When I world. We are growing up in the elec- did those first interviews they were tronic age and there's less and less done specifically for the [CBC] Archives writing of letters and few people keep although they were to be used in the diary's now. As a result Dalton Camp case of the demise of the person that was to suggest in reviewing my first was being interviewed. They did feel oral history book, Diefenbaker: Leader- that programs could be made of them so ship Gained, that oral history may be that they weren't just oral history our only political historv. interviews. They were going to be used Up to-now I've been talking mainly as programs. When I did those first about a particular kind of oral history, interviews I had an engineer with an which is the kind that I practise, poli- Ampex or a Uher. I remember when I went tical oral history. It's the kind that down to Dartmouth College to interview Columbia University goes for, that is Vilhjalmur Stefansson, CBC got the local recording the memoirs of VIPs, of per- radio station man to make the record at sons significant in American life, or his cottage on the campus. That inter- what Paul Thompson refers to as the 11 great man project I' view illustrates an important point with . regard to oral history, which is the There is the ordinary person kind, or obvious limitation of death. Stef ans- as Louis Starr has called it, ?fhistory son, who seemed so full of life at the from the bottom up." And that has time, died within 10 days of that inter- proved to be immensely popular when view. When we set up the joint oral undertaken by journalists and broadcas- history project of the Public Archives ters, such as Barry Broadfoot and Studs and Parliamentary Library to record the Turkel. I might- sav that such books as memoirs of federal politicians our prio- Ten Lost Years and Hard Times and the rity was age and health. Another is others are not appreciated- - by the acade- that you can't get anyone to say anyt- mic historians. But then they don't hing that he doesn't want to say. Cer- like any kind of oral history really, tainly not politicians or public fig- at least the Canadian historians. The ures. And that's aside from whether you American historians on the other hand should or should not do that. seem to be a little more with the elec- In the Prologue to Diefenbaker: Lea- tronic times. In some ways the ordinary dership Lost I wrote that after inter- person interview is more difficult to do views with hundreds of people it has and requires patience and skill on the been my experience that a person who is part of the interviewer to make a person not a professional writer is likely to who's not used to speaking tell his be much more frank and interesting when story. It's the type of interview which is used in the sorts of social and com- oral history in united States whereas it munity history's which Paul Thompson is the government and government a~gen- favours, or projects like the one at cies in Canada. And that I suppose is Duke University on how black disenfran- the story of most endeavours in our two chisement came about in the southern countries. states of the turn of the century. And that's an ongoing project. This project at Duke University is being funded by "Directions in Oral History in Cana.dal' the Rockefeller Foundation. There are many other oral history projects at by Richard Lochead American universities which are also supported by the Rockefeller Foundation. There are differences between the way This is my first time in Vancouver oral history is supported in this coun- and indeed my first time in British try and across the border. The modern Columbia, and therefore I was not pre- movement began at Columbia University sent at the founding conference of the and spread to other universities across COHA in 1974 at Simon Fraser. However, the United States. Although the Ameri- this meeting is quite sibnificant be- cans complain about oral history being cause it provides an opportunity to under-funded it is supported by founda- review the progress of oral history and tions such as the Rockefeller Foundation the Canadian Oral History Association and other private sources. over the last decade. And also to dis- In Canada it is a government archives cuss the sole the Association should and agency's which are the main compo- play in the development of oral history nent of oral history. Now take my own in the next decade. It is also signifi- case as an example, I could not have cant that after holding conferences done the four books on Diefenbaker and across the country in the last nine Pearson without the help of the Public years that COHA has returned to its Archives of Canada. Dr. Wilfred Smith, place of origin. For in assessing oral the Dominion Archivist,is a creative history in Canada since 1974 perhaps the archivist and a keen supporter of oral first fact that would become evident is history. I worked closely with Leo the leading contribution made by the Laclare who was your first president and Province of British Columbia to its latterly with Ernie Dick who is here growth and development. This contribu- now, and for who's encouragement and tion is well known and in fact is evide- assistance I shall always be grateful. nced by the presence of many of you Last but not least there is the Bri- here. Oral history activity in British tish Columbia Archives and the extraor- Columbia surpasses that of every other dinary Sound Heritage Series that they province in Canada - a fact that can be have been producing for several years, quickly ascertained by a visit to the in fact since before this organization Provincial Archives. For it is this was started, since 1973, a unique under- organization, as Peter Stursberg men- taking. I am sure that I have left out tioned, that is largely responsible for some government agencies, and some pro- B.C.'s outstanding accomplishments in vincial archives which are doing good oral history and providing a model for work in oral history. And there is the the rest of us to follow. As many of odd foundation which is also supporting you may know B.C.'s oral history program it such as the Glenbow Foundation. centers around Sound Heritage, which As I say, I'm speaking in general serves not only as a valuable acquisi- terms, and in general terms it is the tion device for the B.C. Archives, but university supported by private enter- also as a means of bringing the history prise which are the main proponents of of B.C. to the people of B.C. As such, -in turn, it has encouraged more people United Empire Loyalists and the French. to be aware of their past and has lead Moving further west I guess we should to more local activity in oral history also mention that two years ago the itself. This oral history presence Saskatchewan Archives Board held a con- generated by Derek Reimer, Allen Specht, ference on oral history which had a very and others at the B.C. Archives has also good turn out and published its proceed- lead in part, or gradually, to recogni- ings. I will probably say, second to tion by the academic world. At present British Columbia, Saskatchewan has the B.C. now offers I believe, two univer- most active oral history program. sity courses in oral history, an oral Finally, in Alberta although some people history and genealogy course at UBC and in Alberta are not as enthusiastic about the other given, of course, by Peter oral history as others, the Provincial Stursberg at S.F.U. Archives there has produced the first Oral history has evolved in British directory of oral history. They have Columbia, believe to a stage where it I come out with the first provincial di- represents a strong working alliance rectory in oral history so users can between those who create it, those who actually know what's available and for collect it, and those who interpret it. those who are thinking of undertaking Though B.C. has perhaps set the pace oral history to know what's already been does not mean that the rest of Canada done. has not been active in the creation of The Canadian Oral History Association oral history documents. There have been has been active throughout Canada in a conferences recently in St. John's New- more formal way through its own confe- foundland, at Memorial University, and rences such as this one, and through the also the creation of the Atlantic Oral publication of the conference proceed- History Association. Newfoundland, with ings in our Association journal. I'm its folklore element at Memorial, and pleased to report that the Association Nova Scotia and New Brunswick have evol- is nearing completion of one of its ved their own separate organization and original objectives, that is the publi- hold their own regional meetings. cation of a national inventory of oral Moving on, in Quebec, the one area history collections in Canada. Work on that seems to be mainstream for them is this directory in particular, as well as the recording of life histories. Folk- lore and sociology disciplines have my work on oral history at the Public attracted appjoaches most closely to Archives and through the Canadian Oral European in their use of the life his- History Association, has afforded me a tory. Recently a contest was sponsored vantage point perhaps to view the evolu- for the best life history in Quebec by tion in direction of oral history in the Department of Sociology at Laval. Canada over the past few years. That is one way which they are building First, the collections listed in the up their history collection on Quebec directory are indicative of major oral peop:Le, through oral history. history interest. And the most popular Recently the Ontario History Society oral history subject in Canada is bush pilots. We have had more interviews on has developed a number of work shops to be held three or four times a year de- that subject than any other one subject. pending on the demand for them. This is I'll leave that for your own explanation all the past two years. They've held with respect to aviation, with respect four so far, and each one of them has to the country, respect to the romance been well received. Also, a few years of the occupation. But be as it may it back the Multi-Cultural History Society has attracted more attention according of Ontario was established which docu- to the directory. mented the immigrants' experience, those One of the other areas of concern is peop:Le who have come to Ontario after mapping out pioneer settlement in the west. Another is local histories. La- bour, women and immigration are major the outset by our governmental institu- areas which have been the concern of tions. One of the dominant areas that social historians who, in the last de- defines the Canadian traditions has been cade, have become a much greater force the archives. Perhaps the reasons for among history departments. For as you the archival involvement has been the know the archives of these areas in the fact that simply the archives in Canada past have been neglected and therefore, tend to be more centrally organized, and written material not being available, larger than perhaps they are in Britain many scholars seeking to interpret their or the United States. Also the idea of record have had to resort to oral his- "total archives, " which means that oral tory methods. history is collected as tape not as Perhaps before all who have been transcript and therefore is collected active in t.he field of oral history was with other historical sound recordings. the folklorists. The National Museums And also the roles mentioned by Peter of Canada as early as 1911 used even Stursberg of the CBC which created per- more cumbersome equipment than the CBC haps, after World War 11, a lot of pro- provided to Peter Stursberg to record grams in its cultural mandate to try to the folk tales and the folk legends of seek out and find the Canadian identity Canada's native peoples. This interest and express it wherever it was found in life history has also been carried on since it was publicly funded and the through sociological studies during the mandate was a cultural rather than a '~OS, '40s. commercial one--this was not the case in Another major and more popular area the United States. Hence broadcasting is the field of public figures, and occupied a much larger role in Canada particularly politicians. Peter Sturs- than it did in the United States. In berg has addressed you on that subject, fact, it's somewhat ironic when you look But this is a contribution more of jour- at the evolution of oral history-at nalists. least this was my experience when I Perhaps second, as an individual area first came to it-I ran into Barry Broad- which has been covered, oddly enough is foot's book which was certainly an ex- the history of World War 1. The CBC did cellent book. I couldn't help but feel a very big project on that, 600 hours in that it was sort of a follow-up and a addition to the World War 11 reports. Canadian equivalent of the Studs Terkel Various individuals have taken it on. book. And Canada once again was follo- It is an area which has been in ternis of wing the lead of the United States. oral history quite well covered and it This opinion was actually easily formed is one that I think in the future will and that was the view of people in Uni- be more consulted than the ones that are ted States when I went to a few confe- better known. rences from there, who also could not And of course the history of indivi- understand why Canadians in oral history dual professions and individual biogra- collected on tape rather than tran- phy's. In terms of the professions one script. They either thought we were a area that seems to be covered the most bit lazy I think, or perhaps we just at present is the medical area. There couldn't afford it. But they never seems to be a lot of oral history ini- understood and I think they do now, that tiative in that area as opposed to say, the reason why was the large role of engineering or social sciences. CBC. Therefore oral history, in terms When one switches to the management of using oral history techniques in the of oral history collections, one notices modern sense, is a longer one than in immediately, as Mr. Stursberg mentioned, the United States. I often think for that development of oral history in many of those who heard the first time Canada has been heavily influenced from the word oral history in terms of Barry Broadfoot while listening to "Voice of order into this rather untidy reality the Pioneer," on CBC, might have had a that is presented to us. little feeling of dgja vu since the I should say at this moment that the 1v Voice of the Pioneer" preceded Barry heavy involvement of archivists in oral Broadfoot's by at least 10 years. history should not be interpreted as a Because the CBC collects its material unanimity of archival opinion. Some are on tape rather than transcripts and enthusiastic, others skeptical of its because these tapes were deposited in value. This has often led to debate of archives explains, perhaps, the role of whether archivists should create or archives in an oral history association collect the record. If I may venture such as ours. Perhaps the biggest ex- and steal a page from Derek Reimer's planation and most simple explanation paper which states "The important task for why archivist have been involved in of archivists perhaps is to present as oral history and in the Association is balanced and representative record of that oral history is simply a part of our past as possible. And perhaps in our job description. this sense oral history should be viewed The term oral historian, or the fact as a new and challenging method of se- of oral history is a debate in itself. lecting historical documentation. It Many people feel that there is no such does not become as questionable perhaps thing as an oral historian. I personal- if you assume that the historical record ly feel that - if I can add my position does exist within the mind and memory of here - oral history is created by many an individual, it's a function of the disciplines and it should be judged by interviewer to select what is important the discipline which created it. How- out of that record." ever, regardless of the outcome of all Oral history, as an extension of the the disciplines which are now active in traditional archival role of selection, the creation of oral history for their is a means of strengthening a record own purposes, there's one discipline which is now diffuse because of techno- that is responsible for all of it and logical advances in other areas. Many that's the archival. For in the process historians have commented that there is of creating their oral history for their much more of the record but less in it. partf~cular discipline, they are in the Hopefully oral history by a judicious process often of making significant use of the archival selection, in coope- additions to the historical record. And ration with the academics, can focus in it is our job as archivists to bring on what is important and therefore strengthen the record.