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Home , Cipher (comics), John Buscema, John Verpoorten, Killraven, Marvel Super Hero Island, Mike Esposito (comics)

Comics’Fast & Furious Artist

by Jim Amash with Eric Nolen-Weathington Table of Contents

Introduction by Walter Simonson...... 4

Chapter One: Inspiration All Around...... 6

Chapter Two: A Heroic Departurre...... 17

Chapter Three: How to Break in the Marvel Way ...... 33

Chapter Four: The Workhorse Hits His Stride ...... 59

Chapter Five: A New Start with a Different Company ...... 87

Chapter Six: The Craft of Creating Art ...... 97 Art Gallery ...... 110

DR. STRANGE, , ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

3 Chapter One Inspiration All Around

Jim Amash: You probably don’t remember recollection from when I was five or six years when this happened, but I know you know old — when my brothers both painted a land- when and where you were born. scape of some kind. It was sort of a friendly : Of course. [laughs] I was born competition. I think they may have been in , , on January 26, 1936. painting from a photograph. They were both My father’s name was John, and my mother’s working in oils, and having a good time. It was Sadie. My brother John was eight years was just a fun thing that they were doing. older than I, born December 11, 1927. John was always dabbling in this kind of stuff. He loved to draw and paint. I think Al JA: Do you have any other brothers or sisters? — there was a very friendly sibling rivalry (below) For many years, SB: Yes, though unfortunately they’re all between them. They were very close, very Sal participated in Friday deceased. The oldest, Al, was born on July 28, devoted to each other. They loved each other night live model drawing 1923. My sister, Carol was born on June 22, dearly, as we all did. Al may have been kid- sessions at a local college. While in his 1929. ding around and said, “Hey, I can do as well teens, he had to rely on or better than you can. I’ going to paint a drawing from the JA: Who was the first one to draw in your picture of this right next to you.” They both statues housed at the family? had canvas boards and a couple of easels. Metropolitan Museum SB: In so far as I can remember, it was John. of Art. ©2010 SAL BUSCEMA I recall a couple of occasions — and this is a JA: What inspired you and John to draw? SB: My maternal grandfather, whom I never knew — my mother was just 13 when he passed away — was a musician by profession. He taught music; I believe it was the accor- dion that he taught. He also made accordions, and was an amateur artist. According to my mother he was quite good. She described in great detail some of the work he did. I believe he worked mostly in charcoal. I remember one description she related to us about a drawing he did that was rather large of this young boy and young running through a forest in a wind with the trees blowing around them. The way she described it was quite impressive. Unfortunately, all his work is lost. We never saw it, so I only have her descriptions to go by. But that may be where we got some of the genes. The earliest recollection that I have is of John sitting at the dining room table drawing. He loved to draw. I would say that John was greatly responsible for me pursuing drawing. He always said that as a kid I was better than he was. I’m not sure I agree with that, because I always believed that John was maybe not necessarily more gifted than I — although his drawing was much better. I did not consider myself a really good draughts- man by any stretch of the imagination, and

6 John was definitely much more dedicated than I. John was definitely an inspiration, but I got my inspiration from other areas, as well. I loved to go to museums as a kid. When I was in high school, I visited the Metropolitan Museum of Art as often as I could. It was almost like a home away from home for me. I particularly loved the room they had devoted to Michaelangelo’s sculp- tures. Of course, primarily they were all reproductions, but excellent ones. I just loved that room. I spent hours in there draw- ing the sculptures.

JA: What time period are we talking about? SB: I went to a junior high school that was actually the first year of high school. So when I went to the High School of Music & Art in New York, which is now the LaGuardia High School of Music & Art and Performing Arts — John went there also, by the way — I was actually in my second year, which would put me at about 14 and a half.

JA: When you were drawing the sculptures, what were you paying attention to? SB: At that age you’re really not paying attention, Jim, because you’re so young. You’re a neophyte in whatever you’re endeavoring to do. I was simply trying to reproduce what I saw. That’s all. I was just having fun because I enjoyed drawing.

JA: There were two high schools in New York: Music & Art and the School of Industrial Arts. Why did you choose Music & JA: Would John ever critique your work to (above) Sal’s older Art? try to help you? brother, , SB: Probably because that’s the school that SB: Absolutely, constantly. I remember one at his drawing board, John went to. [laughs] Being eight years older instance. There was a photograph of an circa mid-1970s. than I, you have to consider that I was just a Oriental man, a rather large profile shot in little kid when John was going to high school. Life magazine. I decided, “Oh, I’d just love to John was kind of a hero to me. Even in later draw this,” and I drew it on a pad with a reg- life he was a man that I greatly admired. If it ular #2 pencil. I always showed my drawings was good enough for John, it was good enough to John and the rest of my family. He just for me. In later years I somewhat regretted it, flipped over it. “Boy, this is just terrific!” and because Music & Art was devoted to the finer he explained to me why he thought it was so arts, whereas Industrial Arts was good; that the pencil strokes I had used gave devoted to commercial arts. And that was the flesh an almost breathable feeling. I’m what I wanted to be: a commercial artist. paraphrasing what he said, but words to that When you graduate from Music & Art, you effect. He was very encouraging. I remem- really don’t know anything about the com- bered what he said, and tried to apply it to mercial art industry, which is the field that another drawing that I did of a similar head, I wanted to enter. In the Industrial Arts but it didn’t come out nearly as good. [laugh- high school, you would have gotten some very, ter] So what I did subconsciously did not very pertinent training in that respect. work consciously.

7 Chapter Two A Heroic Departure

JA: John had already come back to comics JA: What did you do? Did you make an before you got into the field. Why did John go appointment with Stan? (below) Opening splash back to comics? SB: I actually made up six pages of pencil page from The Incredible Hulk Annual SB: John lived in Port Jefferson, , samples — just a very simple storyline. I used #14. It is fitting that Sal used Hulk which is quite a distance from . He the Incredible Hulk as the character. in the samples he drew had to commute, I think it was close to five Let me digress for a minute. I had to learn in order to get work at hours a day. Maybe not quite that much, but how to do comic books. I had never drawn Marvel. Sal went on to pretty close. It was really wearing him out. He super-heroes before. I had storytelling ability draw The Incredible Hulk would get home very late at night. It was the because of my training in film strips and that over an incredible ten- year run. type of business where if they asked you to kind of thing, but I had no idea how to do ART COURTESY OF EELCO work on the weekend, you had to work on the comics. So I went out and bought a whole VELDHUIZEN HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL weekend. If he had to work at night, a lot of bunch of . I bought those drawn CHARACTERS, INC. times he would miss the last train going out to Long Island, and have to spend the night in the city. He really hated that side of it. He loved the work, but he hated the commute. It was a real conflict for him. Ironically, he ran into on the street one day. They got to talking and Stan said, “Hey, the comic book industry is begin- ning to flourish again, John. Come and see me. We need guys.” When he saw that opportunity of being able to work at home, it was no contest. He took it up right away.

JA: Why did you leave Design Center to go into comics? SB: For the simple reason that I’d always liked them. I didn’t have that [chuckles] hatred that John said he had. And it also afforded me the opportunity of working at home. That is a tremendous plus. You have that independence and freedom. I’m a fairly disciplined person, so I didn’t have to worry about goofing off. For as long as I’ve been doing comics I put in a reg- ular five-day week, eight hours a day. I was commuting into Washington, DC, and the traf- fic was horrible. It took me over an hour to get to work and over an hour to get home, unless there was an accident and it took a lot longer. Once I added it all together and saw that comics were on the way back and things were going well again, I said, “Let’s take a shot and see what happens.”

JA: So John didn’t suggest it to you. SB: Oh, no. As a matter of fact, I asked him, “Do they need guys?” and he said, “Yes.”

17 by and and all the guys JA: Did you show the samples to John? who worked for Marvel, and literally worked SB: Oh, sure. The first few samples I did every night for about a year to learn how to do which I thought were okay, he ripped them to these things. I was that determined to do it. I shreds. He said, “You’re going to be compet- thought my wife was going to divorce me. ing with guys that can put this stuff to shame. [laughter] Literally, I would come home from You’ve got to be as good as they are.” He crit- work, we’d eat dinner, and I’d go down to my icized them over the phone, and essentially studio. I had a studio at home even though I what he said was, “Your drawing is okay. didn’t do any freelance work. And I would just Everything is okay, but you need to become (above) A photo of Sal work and practice, and work and practice. 150% more dynamic. The stuff’s just got to during his days fly off the page. You have to be much more used in Marvel editorial material. JA: What were you concentrating on? powerful. What you’re doing is too passive SB: How to produce a dynamic page. When I and too quiet.” That was the kind of thing saw what guys like Kirby and Gene Colan, Stan wanted from all of his guys. The first and my brother, and were time I talked to Stan he went through that doing, I would draw up a page and I would same spiel. He told me he wanted everything (below) For this 1969 look at it and say, “God, this is awful.” It took to be powerful. “Once you draw it and you cover illustration for Marvelmania Catalog #2, me a whole year working practically every think it’s good enough, redo it and make it Sal reworked his splash night and every weekend. There were also even better.” In other words, John was relat- page from Avengers #71. some things going on at the studio where I was ing to me what Stan had related to him. ART COURTESY OF JERRY BOYD working that I was not happy about, so this So I went back to work some more. He saw ALL CHARACTERS ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. was a very, very attractive alternative. things that I was not able to see at the time. Once I got into the business, then I realized what he was talking about. Once I got the hang of it I made up those six sample pages of pencils — just pencils, which I regret, because I wanted to be an . [laughter] I didn’t want to pencil. My first few jobs for Marvel were inking jobs, but I did those while working for Design Center. I wanted to work full-time for Marvel, so it was out of necessity that I penciled.

JA: What did Stan Lee think? SB: He loved them. He asked me to come on up to New York, which I did, and I went through the most interview I’ve ever had in my life. [laughs] Stan was leap- ing on his chair and his desk, just to relate to me physically what he wanted on a comic book page. It was fascinating and it was charming all at the same time. He made the sound effects, the whole nine yards. I thought the guy was going to leap out the window. He demonstrated every other way you could possibly demonstrate what he wanted on those pages — the dynamics and so on.

JA: Did you have to go home and do more samples? SB: No, they started me on The Avengers, which was a nightmare because it was a group book, and those are the most difficult to do. I believe was the inker.

18 JA: So if you drew a character sneering, you’d be sneering. SB: Oh, absolutely. And everybody does that. I remember John doing that all the time. The few times I did work with John, I would look up sometimes, and he’d have a real snarl on his face.

JA: Were you identifying yourself with those characters? Were you putting yourself in those scenes? SB: Not really. I tried to feel what was hap- pening. If somebody lunges at somebody else, you’ve got to feel it. You want to feel the impact of the blow. You want to feel the fist going past the guy’s jaw. You’ve got to feel that inside you before you start drawing it.

JA: Jack Kirby told me once that sometimes if he was angry about something, that anger would come out on the page. Did you ever feel that way? SB: I didn’t let what was happening to me personally effect what I was doing on the page. But when you’re working on the page, you’re living the moment of the page. You’ve and I think everybody else did, too. If you did (above) Cap may be got to, otherwise it won’t work. something he didn’t like, he would yell at you avoiding the issue, but on the phone. “Come on, Sal. Get with the he’s right. Sal was told JA: How did you develop your concept of program,” or something like that. But he was to jazz up Jazzy John’s character design and costume design? a terrific guy. recent costume update for the , and the SB: I don’t know if I ever had it. [laughter] I remember one thing specifically. It was wings Sal added had the People don’t think that’s one of my strong the first Silver Surfer book that I inked over additional purpose of points. Later on, into the ’80s and ’90s, I got John’s pencils — the one with [issue #4]. enabling our hero to fly. fairly good at it. I don’t think I ever created There was a one-panel close-up of Loki, who ART COURTESY OF WWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ any characters that were very prominent. was supposed to be in a spirit form, so the ART I’m not sure I ever had a great feeling for it. holding figure lines had to be very, very light , FALCON ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARAC- Creating characters and costumes was not to make it seem like he's not flesh and bone. TERS, INC. one of my strong suits. One of the ones that Sol called me and said, “Sal, this is weak. It’s lasted for a while was the Falcon. John not such and such and so and so.” “Sol, this is Romita drew the initial costume, but they what the story calls for.” There was a pause wanted to jazz it up a little, which I did in a and he said, “Well, okay, but this is what I Captain America story. I redesigned his cos- want you to do with it.” He sent it back to me, tume, and they loved it. I thought, “Oh, my and I had to redo a few things on the head. I God. It’s just awful.” They thought it was think it was because Sol didn’t want to admit great. What do I know? that he was wrong. [laughter] I won’t accuse him of that, really, because he was a great guy JA: In the early days of you working for to work for, and I got very, very few calls from Marvel, how often did you go to the offices? Sol about anything like that. SB: I would probably go up there three or four times a year. Every two or three months or so. JA: Did you spend any time with John Romita? JA: What were your impressions of Sol SB: One specific time was when they asked me Brodsky? to do a Spider-Man story. I believe they were SB: Sol was the nicest guy in the world, a considering giving me Amazing Spider-Man, great human being. I loved working for him, which I think John was working on at the

25 JA: As you were learning in those early days, were you fast or slow? SB: At first I was very slow. If I knocked out six or eight pages a week I was happy. Then I started getting a little bit better, and I could probably do a couple pages a day. But once I hit that five-year transitional period, I was like a machine. I could grind the stuff out. What was amazing about it, to me anyway — and there might be people who disagree with me — was I was doing the best work of my career. It was just an amazing process. Everything just fell into place, and all of a sudden I found it very easy to do. And it was a lot more fun.

JA: How long did it take you to get comfort- able with the concept of super-heroes and super-villains? It was such a change for you. SB: I was never uncomfortable with it. I thought it was a blast. I had a lot of fun.

JA: John was always saying how he hated these characters, but you didn’t feel that way yourself. SB: No, I did not. I enjoyed it. I thought it was a great way to make a buck. [laughter]

JA: Do you think John really hated super- heroes as much as he said he did? SB: You know, Jim, there’s a dichotomy here. John did not enjoy drawing Spider-Man. John enjoyed drawing people. When you’re doing a character like Spider-Man, you’ve got to draw buildings and cars, you’ve got to draw all the junk that goes on around these guys — the interiors of rooms, and so on and so forth. That’s what John did not enjoy. He (above) Sal inked John time. Because this was the number one book loved to draw. Drawing was his life. If this Romita on this cover to for Marvel, Stan wanted to talk to me in per- man was for some reason unable to draw, he Amazing Spider-Man #95. son about it. I had to go up to New York, and would’ve died not when he did, but years and He also inked Romita’s talk with Stan and John. They were both years earlier. He ate, slept and breathed loose breakdowns for drawing. This was the reason he did not enjoy the interiors of this telling me things I needed to know about the issue. character and so on, and then John and I comic books that much. Now, I’m not sure the ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE went out to lunch. We had a real nice lunch [chuckles] hatred that he professed was as AUCTIONS together, and John was relating to me how he intense as he made it sound. For example, he SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MAR- VEL CHARACTERS, INC. approached doing comics, and we talked loved drawing , because Conan was about personal stuff — family and such. It pure . He didn’t have to draw sky- was a very pleasant lunch. And I don’t think scrapers. He would draw these neat, little his- I ever got to do the Spider-Man book, and torical towns that really did not exist. He I can’t remember why. Maybe they just could create anything he wanted. He really thought I wasn’t ready. Shortly thereafter enjoyed that part of it. That’s where the John did very loose breakdowns on a Spider- dichotomy exists. John loved to draw, but Man book that they wanted me to do the there were some things he hated drawing, and finishes for. That was one of the few Amazing unfortunately in comic books you have to Spider-Man books that I worked on. draw all this other stuff.

26 To a great degree, I’m like that, too. and let him know that I was still alive, and That’s why I didn’t enjoy penciling so much. eventually the first job came through. It was a How long did I draw Spectacular Spider- rush job. I knocked myself out to get it back Man? I did Spider-Man for twelve years, and to him real fast. It was a Western. I believe (below) This early ’70s I enjoyed a lot of it, but there was a lot of it I the character was called Gunhawk. He had ad was obviously done did not enjoy. two guns, and for some reason he grabbed the for a comic convention left gun with his right hand and the right gun program book — most JA: What led you to start inking for Marvel? with his left hand. I don’t know how that’s likely one of the New SB: I wrote a letter. I wanted to physically possible [laughter], but that’s York Comic Art Convention shows. Sal’s find out who to talk to about getting inking what he did. I don’t remember who the pen- first inking assignment work, and my brother said, “Talk to Sol.” So ciler was, but I worked my fanny off on that for Marvel was a I wrote this very nice letter and told him all to do as good a job as I could possibly do. “Gunhawk” story, but about myself, and that I could do anything by the time of this ad with a brush or pen, and that I was also very JA: The reason I’m asking is that I have the Western hero had picked up a partner. disciplined and a very dependable individual. “Gunhawk” [Western Gunfighters #1] down ART COURTESY OF I told him there was nothing more that I as 1970, but Silver Surfer came out in ’69. WWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ would like to do than work for Marvel. He SB: It can’t be 1970, because that was the ART THE CAT, GUN HAWKS, MAN- called me and said, “Sal, we don’t have any- first job I did for Marvel, and I remember the THING, SHANNA THE SHE-DEVIL, SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 thing right now, but hang loose and I’ll try to month. It was June of 1968. MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. ™ AND ©2010 come up with something for you.” I called him ADVANCE MAGAZINE PUBLISHERS, INC. D/B/A CONDÉ a couple of times just to bug him a little bit JA: Maybe it didn’t get printed right away. NAST PUBLICATIONS.

27 Chapter Three How to Break in the Marvel Way

JA: You worked on Sub-Mariner for a while, JA: You left around the time you started ink- again with Roy. How did you feel about ing Conan. I wondered if maybe that was the drawing underwater environments? reason. SB: It was fun. It was better than drawing SB: Maybe. You probably know this better buildings. [laughter] than I do, Jim. That was when Barry Smith was doing Conan. I remember doing some JA: As you continued to work with Roy, did work over on The Hulk. he still give you the same amount of plot? SB: Roy was very consistent. He gave you a JA: What did you think of Herb’s pencils? plot, which means there was no dialogue, and SB: I hate to say this, but Herb was not a he wasn’t telling you specifically what to draw. good draughtsman. I think he would be the He wrote a plot that was very complete, but first one to admit that. But Herb was a won- yet gave me tremendous freedom to do what I derful storyteller. His work was very graph- wanted to do. He may have called me and ic, which is one of the reasons Stan loved talked about certain aspects of the story for Herb’s storytelling. I think Herb wzs a very clarification purposes, but other than that, he talented guy. Drawing was not his strength, would send me a plot and I would go to work. but storytelling was. I think he did a terrific (below) They say that job on The Hulk, and I think I’m the only clothes make the man, JA: What were your thoughts on the Sub- guy who drew The Hulk longer than Herb. but in ’s case it’s Mariner’s personality? He did it for about seven years, and I did it all about the attitude. Here Prince Namor, the SB: I enjoyed the character primarily close to ten, I think. Sub-Mariner, in all his because he was off-beat. Also, because he was regality, prepares for a not of this world. He was of the undersea JA: If you got a penciler whose sensibilities royal wedding. This panel world — a rebellious type of character with were different than yours, how would you comes from page 19 of Sub-Mariner enormous power. He could do everything, he meld yourself to be part of a team? Joe #36. Inks by Bernie Wrightson. could fly. He had the one weakness: If he was Sinnott, like you said, when he inks someone, ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE out of the water too long, he lost his strength. he always shows through. The same was true AUCTIONS of you, but to a lesser extent. SUB-MARINER ™ AND ©2010 It was fun, too, in the sense that I didn’t have MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. to draw conventional backgrounds. I had to draw all these wonderful undersea scenes.

JA: Did you feel like it was a challenge to make a regal man out of a guy just wearing swimming trunks? SB: No, it was very easy with him. I didn’t have any problem with that. I love the way John did it. John made him an almost god- like figure.

JA: How did you feel about his arrogance? SB: That’s just one of the aspects that makes him a fascinating character. And he had a lot to be arrogant about. [laughter]

JA: Why was your stay on Sub-Mariner so short? I think you were only there for a year or so. SB: I think they asked me to do something else.

33 SB: It’s simply because of my approach. I then Roy would call me and ask me to correct believe, having also been primarily a penciler a face or an ear or some detail. In one for most of my career, it’s up to the inker to instance, Conan was taking a swing at some- be as true to the penciler as possible, unless body and Roy was not pleased with it. It just you get the word from the powers that be. I’ll didn’t work, and he asked me to fix it. In give you an example. When Barry Windsor- those cases, yes, I would definitely do it, but (below) Detailed pencils, Smith started doing Conan, he was a kid with only when I was asked to. I’ve always indeed! It’s no wonder it a tremendous amount of potential, but his believed that if the client, whether it’s Marvel took Sal a long time to drawing left a lot to be desired. I think he or DC or whoever, is happy with what the ink Barry Smith’s Conan would admit that he was not a particularly penciler did, then it is up to the inker to be pages. And that’s all good draughtsman yet. He was a wonderful true to the penciler. brushwork, too! On the left is page 7 of Conan storyteller, and I tried to be as true to him as That’s how I want guys to ink me. If I’m #9. On the right is a I possibly could, because that’s my approach penciling something and I’m doing finished panel from the final page to inking: Be true to the penciler. penciling, I want them to be true to my pen- of Conan #6. He sort of dropped off the scene for a ciling. Unfortunately, a lot of times guys were ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE while, and when I saw the work he was doing not. This is why I was so dissatisfied with so AUCTIONS CONAN ™ AND ©2010 CONAN years later I said, “My God, this guy’s many of the I had. PROPERTIES INTERNATIONAL, LLC improved 500%!” He was terrific. But back JA: You inked several issues of Conan, and you got to see Barry improve during that time, but it always seemed like he was more of a designer than a draughtsman. SB: It took me an eternity to ink his stuff. If you want to see tight pencils... they could have shot from the pencils. When I would - ish inking his work, I’d have pencil on my hand, my arm, and every other part of my body. [laughter] He was amazingly tight.

JA: In 1970, after left X-Men, you penciled one issue which Sam Grainger inked. It turned out that was the last issue of X-Men before they went to reprints, and then a later revitalization. Do you have any mem- ory of why you did that one story? SB: It was probably just a fill-in job they asked me to do. Maybe nobody else wanted to do it. [laughter] I never asked. They’d just

34 (right) reaffirms her decision to join the in this panel from Defenders #5 inked by Frank McLaughlin. ART COURTESY OF WWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ ART DEFENDERS ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

(below) It may well have been decided that the Defenders book needed a woman’s touch, and why not? Valkyrie, the subject of this ’70s commission piece, made an interesting addition SB: That must have been when he and I were group. The Hulk didn’t want it; he just want- to the non-team. talking about this possibility of a new book. I ed to be left alone. Dr. Strange was trying to ART COURTESY OF thought it was fun. The whole premise of the hold them together with his leadership quali- WWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ ART book is that these are very reluctant heroes. ties in order for them to accomplish whatever DEFENDERS ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. Sub-Mariner certainly didn’t want to join a goals they had. It was a very interesting idea, and I enjoyed it.

JA: Team books are hard to do because you have so many characters to move around. You had fewer characters to deal with here, and from the tone of your voice it sounds like you liked The Defenders more than The Avengers. SB: Yes, I did, primarily because I liked the characters better. My guy [the Hulk] was in there. Sub-Mariner was kind of an off-speed character, and I enjoyed doing him. The same with Dr. Strange. That’s why I liked it better than The Avengers. There were also fewer of them, so it was not quite as difficult a book to do as The Avengers. The Avengers was a real- ly tough book.

JA: Do you remember the thinking behind introducing the Valkyrie? Was it because they felt it was time to have a female member? SB: I think that was probably the case. “Let’s get a beautiful girl in there.”

JA: How much input did you have on plots with ? SB: That’s something I never really got too involved with, Jim. I left the writing and the plotting to the writers and the editorial staff. I can recall a few instances where I may have been consulted or asked a question. I don’t remember any specifics, though. It was some- thing I didn’t get involved in that much. I had all I could handle with penciling the book.

38 JA: With his strength he could have easily JA: It was not long after you took over the art killed somebody, but he never did. on Captain America that Steve Englehart SB: No, because he was not bad. He did have started writing some really terrific stories. that much control, which is one of the things SB: I had a lot of fun working with Steve. they wrote into the story. They cleverly The one that I really enjoyed was the story — worked out the circumstances so that he and I think Roy had something to do with it — (below) Falcon takes on never killed anybody, because then the people bringing the old Captain America [of the the retconned Cap and that misunderstood him would be justified in 1950s] into the picture. That was just so of the 1950s. feeling the way they did. bizarre and really off the wall, that I really Somebody had to be got a big kick out of doing that. I kind of running around in the JA: Did you have any sympathy for his alter hated what they did to the old Cap. I mean, suit if the real Cap was frozen in a block of ice ego, Dr. Banner? they made him out as kind of a bigot, you during that time, right? SB: Of course. Who wouldn’t? Put yourself in a know? I don’t think the old Cap was a bigot, Too bad they were a situation like that. He’s a very sympathetic but there had to be a contrast between the two couple of bigots. Captain character. He’s trying desperately to undo this Captain Americas. Essentially, one of them America and The Falcon damage that was done to him. He’s spending his had to turn out to be a bad guy, and it #154, page 3. Inks by . whole life trying to do that, and nothing seems to worked. We got a lot of great comments about BUCKY, CAPTAIN AMERICA, work. And I’m glad, too, because if it did work, that series. Everybody I’ve talked to at con- FALCON ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. then we wouldn’t have the character anymore. ventions brings that up. Steve was great. I enjoyed working with him tremendously. He would call me with the plots most of the time, and we’d kick them around. I’d ask him questions like, “What are you doing here? What are you doing there?” It was very much like the relationship I had with . The chemistry wasn’t quite the same, but I did work very well with Steve, and I hope he felt the same way, because we did produce some good stories. As an aside, I was told at the time that for some reason Cap did not sell well. It was always at the bottom of the barrel, no matter who did it — whether Jack Kirby did it, or my brother, or Gene Colan, John Romita... no matter what. When Steve and I got on the book — and I give Steve as much credit as anybody; he certainly deserves it, because he came up with some great ideas, some great stories — if I remember correctly, the book hit #5 in sales. It really shot up the charts. That was very, very gratifying. Here again, it was not me and it was not Steve; it was a com- bination of the two of us. In any successful marriage in comics the writer and the artist have to gel, and if they do and the chemistry is right, the book is going to be a success.

JA: I thought it was some of Englehart’s best writing, and I think it was some of your most inspired art, to be honest with you. SB: Well, it was because we enjoyed what we were doing.

JA: The only thing I didn’t like was ’s inks.

46 Richard Nixon. Was that a conscious effort and do it.” Frankly, I thought it was silly. He on Englehart’s part or your part to not reveal was Captain America, for God’s sake. He who he was? knows that there’s good and evil. That was SB: I think that’s the way Steve wanted it, the part I objected to, painting Richard (below) As a direct of and I agreed with it 100%. I didn’t think that Nixon as a totally irredeemable character, the result of the “Secret Empire” storyline, a we had to be that obvious about it. You know, which was not the case. He was a politician. disillusioned Cap it’s fairly obvious anyway. Saying, “Oh, my Look at the crap that goes on today in and out forsakes his name and God! It’s Richard Nixon!” is about the only of the President’s office. It happens all the costume and becomes thing we didn’t do. [laughter] time. Was Watergate bad? Yes, it was bad. The . Not a bad Nixon was not directly responsible for costume, but it’s just not the same as the JA: And that led into the Nomad storyline Watergate, but he was definitely responsible classic, star-spangled where Steve Rogers quits being Captain for the cover-up. He made a huge, huge blun- longjohns he’d made America. Did you have any feelings on that der, and he paid for it as he should have paid famous. Captain America part of the storyline? for it. But that was the part I objected to. and The Falcon #180, SB: I just wish they hadn’t done it. [laughter] page 11. Inks by Vince Colletta. I kept wondering, “What is the point?” I did- JA: You hit on something important, and CAPTAIN AMERICA, NOMAD n’t understand the purpose of it. “Okay, if that’s the psychology of Captain America, a ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. this is what you guys want to do, let’s go ahead character who’s been through World War II. If anybody in the would have his head together, I would imagine it would be Captain America. SB: Absolutely. All of a sudden he’s so terri- bly disillusioned. Give me a break. This is so unreal. But it gave them a direction to go in. Whether it worked or not, personally speak- ing, I don’t think it did. It wasn’t Captain America anymore. You give him a different costume. Okay, fine, he’s not Captain America. Captain America and the costume are one. If you change that it’s no longer Captain America.

JA: Steve Rogers is almost a cipher at times, because that Captain America costume is so powerful for the statement it makes. SB: Exactly. I wonder what they’re going to do with that in the movie. You know how they change things in movies sometimes. You can’t change that costume. It is so gaudy, yet it is so wonderful because it is so unique. As I said, the character and the costume are one. You can’t separate one from the other.

JA: You drew some Marvel Team-Ups star- ring Spider-Man and other characters. How did you feel about doing a book like that? SB: I was happy to be working on any book. That’s kind of a blanket statement. If Marvel called me up — whether it was John Verpoorten or Stan or Roy — and they said, “Sal, would you like to do such-and-such?” I’d always say, “I would love to,” because it was work. I’m a very pragmatic individual, and I like that regular paycheck coming in. And back then, before the contractual thing came into

48 vogue, you were a freelancer, and you earned type of character, the Sub-Mariner was dif- (above left) Spider-Man your check by the amount of work that you did. ferent, Man-Thing... those were the charac- was, indeed, a different That was your livelihood. And if you were one ters that I loved to do, because they weren’t type of character, as was of those fortunate guys, which I thank God con- cut from the same cookie cutter. his team-up partner in Marvel Team-Up #45, stantly that I was, who had work all the time, When you ask, “How did you feel about . Inks by Mike that was just a joy. And that’s one of the rea- this book? How did you feel about that Esposito over Sal’s sons I consider myself a company man. It’s not book?” — pretty much the same way. It was breakdowns. a totally selfless thing. There’s a certain amount work. I enjoyed working. I loved doing what I ART COURTESY OF WWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ self-interest there, because I want to make sure was doing, and I sure enjoyed it when that ART that I’m working on a daily basis. paycheck came. KILLRAVEN, SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, I’m kind of beating around the bush here. INC. Did I enjoy doing that book? Yes, I did. First JA: You did some Marvel Two-in-One stories of all, because there was a new character to with the Thing as the main character. The (above right) The X-Men for all their deal with every month, which made it kind of Thing, of course, has a different personality angst were still interesting. But primarily because it was than Spider-Man. essentially your garden work. This is my feeling — I don’t know if SB: And he’s a great character that I should variety super-heroes. other people feel this way. I’ve heard guys have mentioned, too. I love that character. Marvel Team-Up Annual say, “Oh, I really want to work on this char- He’s tough to draw, though. He’s very diffi- #1, page 1. Inks by over Sal’s acter.” After a while, when you’ve done a cult to draw. His personality is very difficult breakdowns. dozen super-heroes, they’re all pretty much to capture. ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE the same. They’re all a bunch of guys in span- AUCTIONS SPIDER-MAN, X-MEN ™ AND dex running around saving the world every JA: How did you handle the iconography of ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, month. The only difference was the the character? Did you think of his skin as INC. Incredible Hulk. Spider-Man was a different plates or rocks?

49 Chapter Four The Workhorse Hits His Stride

JA: Was there ever a case where an assign- to get more work out of me, and the only way ment came along that you liked better than I could give them more work was by doing what you were doing, and you asked to breakdowns. Everything was there except the switch books? blacks. I did not spot the blacks. I didn’t mess SB: No. around with textures that much. I would do a texture or design on a shirt or tie. JA: I thought your work sometimes suffered from doing breakdowns because of who did JA: But you wouldn’t do rock textures. the finishes. Would you be more forgiving SB: No, no. Everything was done in line. All (below) Breakdowns for with someone finishing your breakdowns the details were there. There was nothing ? #44, featuring than with someone inking your full pencils? vague. The only thing the inker had to do was Captain America versus SB: You had to be, because you’re not giving spot his own blacks. his ’50s counterpart, which was inked by them as much to work with. Under the cir- . cumstances, it was a necessity. During that JA: How many pages of breakdowns could ART COURTESY OF period when I was doing pretty much nothing you do in a day versus full pencils? WWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ ART but breakdowns for Marvel, it was because SB: On a good day I could breakdown four or CAPTAIN AMERICA, WATCHER ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL that’s what they asked me to do. They wanted five pages. That was a comfortable day. With CHARACTERS, INC.

59 (facing page) Incredible full pencils, probably two-and-a-half to three After a while, I think I got the reputation Hulk #269, page 7, a day. Once I got to that five-year point I men- of being a hack. That didn’t sit very well. I written by tioned earlier, I got comfortable enough with heard that from a couple of different sources. with full art from Sal. it that I gained speed, because I had a lot of But I said, “Well, I’m doing what the compa- HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. confidence in what I was doing. ny is asking me to do. If I rebel against that, then maybe I’m no longer a company man.” JA: On books you did breakdowns on, they I don’t have that big an ego, Jim. That’s (below) The opening didn’t always put the best person over you. the thing. Everybody has an ego, and I cer- Incredible splash page of Do you feel that hurt your reputation at all? tainly have one, but I think the key word here Hulk #219, with finishes by over Sal’s SB: I think so, but there again it was a neces- is that I’m a very practical individual. I did breakdowns. Chan was sity on both sides. I was doing what Marvel what I thought was necessary. Then it got to a an excellent artist in his was asking me to do, and I had no problems point where that was no longer necessary, own right, but when with it because, monetarily, it was wonderful. and, unfortunately, nobody told me about it. inking others he tended I was making a lot of money. You know, I was- [laughs] I found out about it sort of sideways. to overpower their work. n’t terribly worried about my reputation side I think it was during a conversation I had with ART COURTESY OF EELCO VELDHUIZEN of it, because I never was a big fan-favorite Bill Mantlo when I was working with him. We HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. anyway — so that side of it didn’t bother me. were talking about one thing and another, and how this came up I don’t remember, but Bill said, “You’re getting the reputation of a guy who just bangs the work out.” I said, “Well, I don’t bang it out. I’m just doing what Marvel asks me to do.” He said, “Well, they’re not doing that kind of thing now.” Here is the classic case of the terrible lack of communication, and it was my fault because I didn’t go up there often enough. The reason for that impression of me was sim- ply because this was what was expected of me for a long period of time. They were constant- ly asking me, “Sal, can you do this?” because I was one of the few guys they had who was fast enough to do fill-in issues and my regular work at the same time. I was being depended upon to do this, and I was more than happy to do it. Obviously, the money was great, but I also felt like, “These people really need me.” I felt like I was a really important part of the operation. I considered Marvel a client — my only client. I was going to do everything with- in my power with whatever ability I had to keep them as happy as possible. Then, all of a sudden, becomes editor-in-chief, and the whole policy changes. He said, “We’re not going to do things this way anymore. I want the very best quality that we can get. I want people to spend a lot more time on the books. I don’t want guys turning out four and five books a month. I want guys to do one book a month, and to put all that they’ve got into that one book.” There was one problem with that: Nobody ever told me about it. When I found out about it, I called Jim Shooter immediately. I said, “Jim, this is what I’ve heard. What’s going on?” and Jim very

60 SB: Of course it did. One of the problems with working away from the establishment is com- munication. You may say things over the phone that can be construed in a completely different way than what you intended. As I said before, I regret not paying more visits to Marvel so that they could know me better as a person, rather than as just a voice on the phone. You can have people saying things about you that you don’t even know about. Then you find out some time later, and how do you defend yourself against something like that? It’s very difficult, if not impossible, to do.

JA: It’s also a testament to your work, because for a lot of people, not being around the office is career suicide. SB: Exactly. John, for instance, lived in Long Island, and he didn’t go up to Marvel very often, but he sure went up a heck of a lot more than I did. With me it was an all-day affair. I had to lose a whole day’s work, which I hated doing because they kept me so busy. I had to catch a train very early in the morning. I did- n’t want to fly up, because the trip from the airport to New York was horrible. You literal- ly made better time with the train, because you got off right there in the heart of the city. You’d grab a cab, and be at the office in five or ten minutes. It was a two-hour ride from the airport into the city. It was a hassle for me. I did it at first, I made a few trips up there, but then after a while I didn’t feel any great necessity. I spoke to people on the phone, and it worked fine for many years. But it was a lack of my knowing enough about human relations, and this is where I kind of lost it a little bit. That’s why I should have (above) Sal obviously one of those guys who seems to be able to han- gone up there more often, so they could get to had fun drawing the dle situations. I think I just called him, and know me, the person, rather than just my Hulk. It shows in every said, “Ralph, this is just not working. I don’t voice on the phone. page. Incredible Hulk want to do the book anymore.” And I really #245, page 22. regret doing that, because I enjoyed The JA: You did some Conan covers and one story. ART COURTESY OF EELCO VELDHUIZEN Hulk. It was one of the books that I had a lot SB: I think I did a few of the black-and-white HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL of fun with. magazine stories, too. CHARACTERS, INC. I thought it was funny, too, it was shortly after that incident that I found out I had the JA: I assume you referred to your brother’s reputation of being very difficult to work work. We talked before about how John (facing page) A page with. And I had never, never had that prob- preferred Conan to super-heroes. Did you from one of Sal’s stories lem before. Or since, for that matter. have the same feelings? for Savage Sword of Evidently there was some bad-mouthing going SB: Absolutely. I loved the character. Conan Conan. on at the time. was a great character. And sword-and- ART COURTESY OF RAIMON sorcery just reeks of fun for the illustrator. FONSECA CONAN ™ AND ©2010 CONAN JA: You rose above it, but it had to bother you It was so much fun. It really whetted the PROPERTIES INTERNATIONAL, LLC to hear that. creative juices. 66 I thought of Spider-Man as a spider. That’s all you can do. [laughs] I did things myself in my studio trying to capture certain positions. How can you make a human body look like a spider? I would literally try to assume those positions myself, and that would give me a basis from which to work. With him and the Hulk especially, when I had them do their thing — when I had Spidey swinging through the city, when I had the Hulk leaping from one place to another — I always tried to exaggerate what they were doing. Because of the nature of those charac- ters — especially Spider-Man — Stan, as I recall, wanted him to be off the wall and off- beat. He loved that Ditko approach to the character. Of course, when John Romita took it over, being such a good draughtsman, he gave it a completely different flavor. I tried to do my own thing with the char- acter, especially when I started the Spectacular Spider-Man series. That was something I got excited about, because I had never been asked to launch a new series before. And, of course, launching a Spider- (above) It appears Sal JA: Speaking of sorcery, you did a little Dr. Man book is kind of a feather in your cap, so got the feel for drawing Strange, too, outside of The Defenders. I was I got really excited about that. I think I did Spider-Man pretty wondering how you felt about that character. the first 20 or 25 issues. I gave it my all. quickly, as evidenced by SB: I thought Dr. Strange was one of those this panel from Peter Parker, the Spectacular characters that was quite unique. Anything a JA: The initial idea of that series was to focus Spider-Man #3. Inks by little off-beat, a little off the wall, was what I a little more on Peter Parker, and the sup- Mike Esposito. enjoyed doing. Dr. Strange was definitely in porting characters than Amazing Spider-Man ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE that category. did, but it didn’t seem like they worried about AUCTIONS that too much once they got into the series. SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. JA: You had a long run on Spectacular SB: I never really got that feeling, either. To Spider-Man in the 1980s to early ’90s. me, it just turned into another Spider-Man Considering the status of that character, did book, which was fine. I had no problems with you feel an added responsibility that you might that. If you don’t want the book to fail, you not have felt on a fill-in title or lesser title? have to concentrate on the character. They SB: I approached every book the same way. I don’t buy the book for Aunt May and Mary tried to give it my best under whatever cir- Jane. They buy the book for Spider-Man. cumstances I was working. I never got a book That’s where you have to go. and thought, “Ah, this is an unimportant Witness the success of the character in the book. I’ll just bang this out,” or, “This is a movies. They’re treating the movies, as far as really important character, so I’ll really do my I’m concerned, exactly the way the character best.” I tried to be even-handed with every- was treated in the comic books. It’s the singu- thing that I got, because I wanted to maintain lar most successful character in the comic whatever success I had achieved at Marvel. book industry, as far as I know. The only one (facing page) Spidey that rivals it may be . X-Men at one doesn’t get much more JA: When drew Spider-Man, he time was the number one bestselling book, spidery-looking than in this illustration for the put him in strange poses. He made him more but that was a group of characters. But Spider-Man: Round spider-like. Spider-Man sold phenomenally well, and the SB: Nobody draws like Steve Ditko. He had supporting cast had a lot to do with it. There collection. such a unique body language he’d give to his was a realism about that series that was SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. characters. Nobody could capture that. unique in the comic book industry. 68 (right) Larry King makes an appearance in this September 1, 1996 Spider-Man Sunday news- paper strip. Inks by . ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE AUCTIONS SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

(below) Sal not only became friendly with a teenaged Gary Groth and his family, but he also provided this cover illustration of Dr. Strange as well as a short interview for a 1969 issue of Groth’s Fantastic Fanzine. money in it. It just wasn’t worth it on a mon- ART COURTESY OF JEFF BELL etary basis to do it permanently. I was happy DR. STRANGE ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. to do it as a fill-in anytime, as a favor to Stan.

JA: Between the ’70s up until 1996 when Marvel went bankrupt, how often did you go to conventions? SB: Not a whole lot. There was a young man, a teenager at the time, that I met who was a big comic book fan, and I got kind of friendly with him and his parents. His name was Gary Groth. The first convention I went to was one he put together. I wanted to help him out, because it was his first venture. I think he was only about 16 or 17 years old at the time. He might have been younger. His mom and dad helped him out, too. I did not do a lot of shows. John and I would have conversations about this. After doing a few conventions here and there, we decided, “This is a money-making operation for the people who run these conventions. This is not a charity. They don’t do it for the love of the industry or the love of the fans. They do it to make money.” Every convention that I’ve ever been to has been like that.

JA: That’s not always true, but more often than not, yes. I used to put on conventions, and as long as we broke even we were happy. SB: If there’s somebody out there who’s a little more altruistic, I don’t think I’ve ever come in contact with them. I think you will admit that San Diego doesn’t do it to be altruistic. San Diego does it because it’s a big business.

JA: I’ve known a couple of exceptions, but for the most part you’re right about that.

82 SB: There are exceptions to every rule. Anyway, John and I decided that we were not going to do these things for nothing. Whenever I talk to people they say, “You can make money by charging for sketches.” I just tell them, “Look, I’m not going to charge a nine-year-old kid $25 for a drawing. I would rather charge you a fee, and then you can advertise the fact that Sal Buscema is going to be there doing free head sketches of any char- acter that they want.” A lot of them bought that. They thought that was a great idea. There were also a lot of times when people would call me about a convention, and as soon as I said, “This is my fee,” there would be this pause, and then they would say, “Oh, we don’t pay. We only cover your expenses.” “Sorry, I don’t work for nothing, and I con- sider this work. If I’m going to work for you for nothing, I’d just as soon stay home, and do my own work and make money.” When you’re talking about the bigger con- ventions — New York, Philadelphia, whatev- er — it’s a money-making operation. But I think it’s because of my policy that I have not been invited to that many conventions.

JA: You’re not the only person who’s charged for an appearance. SB: No, I’m sure I’m not. As a matter of fact, On the other side — I want to be fair about (above) A 1994 conven- the prices I charged were probably a lot more this — a lot of times people would call and ask tion head sketch of your reasonable than most of these guys. me to do a convention. I’d say, “Is it a week- friendly, neighborhood end, a day, or what?” They’d tell me, I’d say, Spider-Man. ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE JA: Do you enjoy conventions? “Okay, my fee is this in addition to expenses,” AUCTIONS SB: I enjoy meeting the fans if I’m at a table and they’d say, “Okay, that’s fine.” They SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 just signing autographs and doing quick head wouldn’t even bat an eye, and I appreciated MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. sketches and that type of thing. I get a kick that because they handled it in a very profes- out of that. I’m not too crazy about the sional manner. I’m not sure about this, but panels, though. John and I only did one con- John and I may have been the first ones to do vention together, and that was years ago in this. I can’t think of anyone else that was New York. We were together for maybe an charging before us. John said, “You know hour at a table doing sketches, then he had to what’s going to happen. Nobody’s going to go his way, and I had to go mine. invite us to conventions.” I said, “Well, that’s But the simple fact of the matter is that it’s a okay, because I can think of other things that business. It kind of ticked me off when people I’d rather do on a weekend.” would ask me to come to their convention and I was invited to Barcelona, Spain, to do a I’d tell them, “My fee is such and such,” and convention there. It’s a huge convention. then they’d say, “Well, we don’t pay.” “Wait a Believe it or not, it actually dwarfs the one in minute. You want me there, you want my broth- San Diego. I believe they told me that they get er there, you want a whole bunch of other peo- 90,000 people there. It’s held in an old train ple there, because we are the people that are station that is no longer in service, and they going to be drawing fans into your convention, used the entire space. It was mammoth. I got and hopefully making you a potful of money, to meet the legendary and his wife and yet you don’t want to pay for the work that there. What a delightful man he was, and his we’re going to be doing.” It just annoyed me. wife was just a sweetheart. My wife and I just

83 Chapter Five A New Start with a Different Company

JA: You were doing a lot of inking for Marvel advance. I’m always looking five or ten years up to the time they went bankrupt. A lot of down the road, and I had plans for essential- (below) Sal’s run on Spectacular Spider-Man editors lost their jobs. A lot of books were cut. ly doing what I’m doing now. My thoughts ended earlier than he SB: In the space of two or three months, were that I would like to go to issue #350 on would have preferred, Marvel got rid of two or three hundred peo- Spectacular Spider-Man and that would have with issue #238. Inks by ple. It was a bloodbath. I lost all of my work. been right around the time I could retire. John Stanisci over Sal’s Then all I wanted to do was ink one book a breakdowns. JA: What were your thoughts on the company month — that’s all — just to maintain a pres- ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE AUCTIONS going public? ence in the industry, and to do something that DRAGON MAN, SPIDER-MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL SB: I thought it was a good sign. I had no idea I really enjoyed doing. Well, that’s essentially CHARACTERS, INC. that the company was going to get into any kind of financial trouble. I’m a capitalist through and through, and I thought it was a good idea. I even floated the idea of buying some stock. I’m glad I didn’t. [laughter]

JA: How did you get the news in ’96? SB: I knew what was happening. I anticipated it. I was only doing Spectacular Spider-Man at the time, and I got a call from telling me that all the sales were down and they were going to have to make changes. I said, “That means I’m not doing the book anymore,” and he said, “Right.” I said, “Am I doing anything else?” He said, “ Well, I don’t have anything for you, Sal. I don’t know about any of the other editors.” I said, “Essentially, the answer is no.” It was a nice conversation, because Ralph and I always got along well, but that was of it. I was under contract to Marvel at the time, and the contract stated that as long as I was under contract I couldn’t work for anybody else. So I had to call , who had recently taken over as editor-in-chief, and tell him I was terminating my contract. The con- tract was almost silly, because either party could terminate it any time they wanted to. In this case, I terminated it because I had to earn a living, and to do that I had to get work from other people. He said, “Fine, Sal. We hope things will turn around. We’ll be in touch.” And then I went to DC, and happily they started giving me work. This is very important. I was near the end of my career. I was 60 years old, so I wasn’t far from retirement. It bugged me a little bit, because I’m a guy who likes to plan way in

87 what’s happened to me now, so in that respect I have been very, very blessed. But the big thing — and this is the point I want to make — there were so many guys with families they needed to support, and these were the people I really felt for. My career was essentially behind me. I had to squeeze out a few more years the best that I could, but there were so many guys in their 30s and 40s that still had years to work, and all of a sudden the whole industry went to pot, and all these people were out of work. It was just a terrible, terri- ble time. And I’m not saying this to sound noble or anything like that. Believe me, I was very, very upset. I’d been working for Marvel for over 30 years, and here I was just shoved aside. But it happened to so many other peo- ple, and they were the ones I really felt for.

JA: Who was your first contact at DC? books. I cannot understand why they’ve gone (above) A moody SB: Mike Carlin. The first project they put me back to full scripts. Batman in these panels on was a doozy. It just blew me away that they from a ten-page story Batman 80-Page Giant would trust me with it. It was a double-sized JA: How did you feel about drawing Batman? for #2. Sal did the full art issue with Batman. And they asked me what SB: It was great! I was just flipping out when for this story, a rarity writer I would like to work with! I had read they asked me to do Batman, because I love during his time at DC. some stuff that Chuck Dixon did. He wrote the character. And the plot that Chuck came ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE The Punisher when John Romita, Jr. was up with was just wonderful. I really had a lot AUCTIONS BATMAN, ROBIN ™ AND ©2010 drawing it, and that was just a fantastic book. of fun working on that. It was great working DC COMICS. When they asked me who I’d like to work with the Batman team, too. They were a with, I immediately said I’d love to work with bunch of nice guys. Chuck Dixon. The next thing I know, I’m get- ting a plot for Detective Annual #10. JA: How was the money? SB: I was getting paid exactly the same as I had JA: How closely did you work with Chuck? been at Marvel. Scott Peterson, the Batman SB: It was a good story. It had to do with for- group editor, and his two associate editors eign intrigue and a South American dictator, took me out to lunch, and the reception that and I just had a ball with it. But I really did- I got from them was just wonderful. It was n’t talk with Chuck. I got the plot in the mail, so gratifying. They seemed really happy to and I dealt with the editor, I sent the pages in, have me. Unfortunately, it didn’t last too long, and that was that. because the whole industry was falling apart. But it reenergized me. It was a whole new JA: Did you work from a plot or a full script? experience, and I took advantage of the situ- SB: I’m pretty sure I worked from a plot. I’ve ation in the sense that I did what I did not do done a couple of very small penciling jobs when I was with Marvel. I went up there more for Marvel in the last three or four years — frequently. Not that much, because I only just two or three pages where they wanted an worked for DC for two or three years, but I “old-fashioned” style, and they asked me to made several trips up there to let them know do it, which really makes me laugh. [laugh- that I was alive and breathing. The short time ter] They were full-script, and I hated every that I worked for them was great. I enjoyed it minute of it. I despised it. thoroughly, and they treated me superbly. I (facing page) A full-page splash from Sal’s first job It was so refreshing when Stan came up can’t say enough about it. for DC: Detective Annual with the new concept of having the artists #10. Inks by one of Sal’s work from plots. It was revolutionary, and I JA: For the most part, you just wanted to favorite collaborators, think it was responsible, more than anything ink at this point. You didn’t want to pencil . BATMAN ™ AND ©2010 DC else, for the creative explosion in comic anymore. COMICS. 89 (right) Very often while at DC, Sal was called in to ink new pencilers. He handled many different styles, and it was Sal’s versatility that made him ideal for such situations. In Batman/Scarecrow 3-D, Sal inked Carl Critchlow, a British artist with a somewhat cartoony style who had worked for 2000 AD, but only did a handful of jobs for DC in the late ’90s. BATMAN, ROBIN, SCARECROW ™ AND ©2010 DC COMICS

(below) A page from Batman Chronicles #16’s back-up story, “Harold,” penciled by Chris Renaud, who after working in comics from 1996-2000 left to go into the field of animation. HAROLD ™ AND ©2010 DC COMICS

(above) The one title Sal worked on with any consistency for DC was The Creeper. There he inked Shawn Martinbrough’s high-contrast pencils for the entirity of The Creeper’s twelve-issue run. THE CREEPER ™ AND ©2010 DC COMICS 92 But with Klaus, I couldn’t wait to get the pages, because I enjoyed inking him so much. It was an absolute blast. I wanted to work on his pencils forever. He’s a master black-and-white artist. Black-and-white art is more difficult to do than color. He does things that are just bril- liant. In that respect, it was so much fun just to see his pages, because his pencils were pretty tight. He has a very stylized flavor to his drawing. It was almost to the point that I could say, “Gee, I wish I penciled like this.” It was not work, believe me. To use the old cliché, it was a labor of love.

JA: Of the DC characters you worked on, and you worked on a fair amount, which was your favorite? SB: I would have to say Batman. Batman is a very unique character. He’s very dark and foreboding — not quite over the line.

JA: You penciled : The Man of , too. Did you think of Superman as something special, or was he just another super-hero to you? SB: Who ever knew that I’d be doing Superman one day? In that sense there was a little bit of excitement there, but once you get into it, it’s just another job.

JA: Why did you leave DC after only three years? SB: Business started slowing down for them, too. The sales were not good. The Batman editors I had been working with — Scott Peterson and Jordan Gorfinkel and the rest — all left at different times. They had kept me constantly busy, but I guess the just doing the inking on Spider-Girl. I don’t (above) Before their editors that took over decided that they did- know anybody who knows more about this longstanding pairing on n’t want my services any more. I officially business than he does. His storytelling ability Spider-Girl for Marvel, Sal inked on retired when I turned 64. I’m still working, is outstanding. This is a guy who really knows Superman: The Man of though. how to write. He could probably teach writ- Steel #94. ing; he knows it that well. Ron and I talk SUPERMAN ™ AND ©2010 DC JA: You’ve been working on Spider-Girl for about this a lot. COMICS. quite some time. Now, Ron is one of the guys who does SB: And I hope we’re on it for quite some contribute an awful lot to plotting and ideas time to come, too. I have a fantastic relation- and so on. And Ron has enormous respect (facing page) One of the ship with Ron Frenz. Ron is a friend, and for Tom’s ability and talent, simply because many artists Sal inked Tom DeFalco is a friend. the guy just knows what he’s doing. He during his brief tenure at Tom is not only a terrific writer, he’s also a knows how to tell a story. When I worked DC was legendary delightful guy. We had a great working rela- with Tom on Spectacular Spider-Man, it Batman artist . Batman #558, page 18. tionship, and we still do, although we’re not was just as smooth as silk. Tom has a talent ART COURTESY OF SPENCER in contact as much as we were when he was for stimulating you and really bringing the BECK BATMAN ™ AND ©2010 DC writing Spectacular Spider-Man for me. I’m best out of you. COMICS. 95 Chapter Six The Craft of Creating Comic Book Art

JA: We’ve talked some about the craft of cre- of panels that my brother did. [laughter] It ating comics, but let’s really focus on that was on a Captain America book, and it was now. Let’s start with your philosophy regard- simply because Stan wasn’t happy with the ing working with writers. storytelling. Not the drawing, obviously, SB: The way I enjoyed working was getting because the drawing was fantastic. I had gone the plot from the writer. I wasn’t the type of to the office for some reason and Sol Brodsky penciler that would contribute a lot. I always asked me, “Sal, we need this panel changed. felt that my job was to interpret what they put Can you do this and this?” And I said, “I’d be in their plot and turn that into 22 pages of pic- happy to.” As a matter of fact, I was thrilled torial storytelling. To me, that was difficult to, because it was literally the first penciling enough. work that I did for Marvel. It was kind of And the other side of it is I can’t recall any- gratifying that they asked me to change some- body ever calling me up and saying, “You thing that John did. know, Sal, this really doesn’t work. You’ve got to redo this.” I’m not throwing accolades at JA: When you were drawing super-heroes, myself, I’m just simply stating a fact. One of how conscious were you of proportion? the things I heard from so many people was SB: You had to be conscious of it, because that the reason they enjoyed working with me you’re drawing heroic people. The propor- was because I told the story so well pictorially. tions have to be there. It’s very difficult to My philosophy was to try to give the writer make somebody look heroic if they’re dumpy- what he wants, so that when he writes his dia- looking. This is something that Stan required. logue it’s going to be as easy for him as it can He wanted all of the super-heroes and hero- be. That’s what I always worked towards. So ines to be very heroic-looking, and that’s the the personal relationships between me and the way you do it. They’ve got to be eight, nine writers frankly did not exist in many cases. I heads tall. would do a book, and then I’d get the plot for It was the same with the villains, because the next one and I’d sit down and think about they have to look like a for the super- (below) Cap certainly it, figure it out, and execute it. Then I’d send heroes. The philosophy, at least when I first looks heroic in these the pages in and get the next plot. That’s the started with Marvel, was that the heroes panels from Captain America way it worked. It was almost machine-like. always had to look like the underdogs. There #153. Inks by . always had to be the sense that, “Oh, my ART COURTESY OF AL BIGLEY JA: As far as the writers you worked with, gosh, he’s in trouble now!” You wanted to CAPTAIN AMERICA ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, who was the most helpful to you in terms of make the super-villains look like formidable INC. the direction they gave you in the scripts? SB: Len Wein, Tom DeFalco, Marc DeMatteis... guys I worked with for a period of time. So many of the writers I only did a few books with. It’s really hard to get a han- dle on that. But the guys I mentioned were just consummate professionals, and that in and of itself was a great help to me. They made my job easy.

JA: Moving on to penciling, were you ever asked to redraw panels? SB: Not a whole lot, but, yes, I was. As a mat- ter of fact, one of the first things I ever did for Marvel, believe it or not, was redraw a couple

97 opponents, so you had to give them the same vulture, it’s probably the ugliest bird out In the page from proportions. Of course, it depended on who it there. You had to capture that persona in the Spectacular Spider-Man was, but the reader had to see that the villain character. And the same thing, in a different #163 (facing page), you posed a real challenge to the super-hero. way, for . Where the Vulture can see how Sal draws Spidey as slender and If you’re drawing Loki, he’s a god. Even could fly, Doc Ock had those mechanical wiry. And villains don’t though he’s an evil god, you have to give him arms. His stature was anything but heroic. He come much creepier that persona, that aura. He has to look majes- was a short, plump professor type. This is the than and tic. It all depends on what the super-villain is challenge that every comic-book artist has. . The panel from Spectacular Spider-Man all about and what the hero is all about. He has to be convincing to the audience with #210 shows Spidey’s Spider-Man is kind of a departure from that, whomever he happens to be drawing, and to rogues as terrifying, and because Spider-Man is a teen-aged kid. At do that he has to be versatile. the reactions of their least, that’s the way he started. He’s smallish. I did a podcast interview recently, and I victims sells that idea. Full He’s a departure, and that may be one of the was bowled over that anybody would even art by Sal. things that made Spider-Man become the want to bother with this, but it was celebrat- ART COURTESY OF WWW.ANTHONYSNYDER.COM/ number one super-hero in the comic book ing my fortieth year in the industry. They had ART ALL CHARACTERS ™ AND ©2010 universe. He was smaller, but look at what he some surprise guests, and one of them was MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. was capable of. Stan, which absolutely blew me out of the The Vulture was creepy-looking and not water. I had no idea that he was going to be on heroic-looking at all. The very nature of a the show, and I was deeply honored because,

99 104 105 Art Gallery

(above) We begin the gallery with images of Sal’s favorite character: The Hulk. And what better place to start than with this illustration done for Mighty Marvel Calendar for 1975 — obviously, this was December’s image. As it happens, December 1975 was the cover date for Sal’s first issue as penciler of Incredible Hulk, and the start of his nearly ten-year run. ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE AUCTIONS HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

(facing page) A commission illustration of Ol’ Greenskin. HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. 110 Cover art for Incredible Hulk Annual #14, cover dated December 1985. Inks by , who also wrote the issue. ART COURTESY OF EELCO VELDHUIZEN HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. 115 Like many other comic book artists, Sal would occassionally sketch on the back of whatever board he happened to be working on — either to work out a problem or simply to take a break and have a little fun drawing something different. The drawings on these two pages come from the backs of two such boards. HULK ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. 116 From left to right: Ron Frenz, Sal Buscema, and Tom DeFalco — the creative team behind Spider-Girl. This photo was taken at the 2008 Pittsburgh Comicon.

A recent photo of Sal inking at his drawing board. 133 Without question, one of Sal’s most memorable covers. Avengers #89, cover dated June 1971. COURTESY OF SAM NEWKIRK AVENGERS, CAPTAIN MARVEL ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. 135 Sal drew several covers for Marvel’s many reprint titles of the '70s, which meant he was able to show his interpretation of some of the key moments from Marvel’s history, including the coming of . Marvel’s Greatest Comics #36, cover dated July 1972. COURTESY OF SAM NEWKIRK , GALACTUS ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. 144 #34, cover dated February 1971. ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE AUCTIONS IRON MAN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. 145 A page from “The Night Before X-Mas,” part of 1994’s Marvel Holiday Special. X-MEN ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. 162 IF YOU ENJOYED THIS PREVIEW, CLICK THE LINK BELOW TO ORDER THIS BOOK!

SAL BUSCEMA: Comics’ Fast &

InFurious 1968, Sal Buscema joinedArtist the ranks of Marvel Comics and quickly became one of their most recognizable and dependable artists. Following in the footsteps of his big brother John (above) Artwork done for Universal’s Islands of Adventure themepark’sBuscema, Sal Marvel quickly Super came intoHero his Island, which opened in 1999. These and three other pieces are on display in the park as large, full-color standees.own, andInks penciled by Tim some Townsend. of Marvel’s ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE AUCTIONS most memorable storylines, such as ALL CHARACTERS ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. the original Avengers/Defenders war, as well as “The Secret Empire Saga” and the Nomad arc in the pages of Captain America. He also had a ten- year run on the Hulk and drew 100 consecutive issues of Spectacular Spider-Man, making him one of the few definitive artists of the Bronze Age. Sal Buscema: Comics’ Fast & Furious Artist, by Alter Ego’s Jim Amash with Modern Masters’ Eric Nolen- Weathington, explores the life and career of this true legend of the comics industry, through an exhaustive interview with the artist, complete with extensive examples of his art, including a deluxe color section, and a gallery of work from Sal’s personal files. Fans love the fast and furious style of Sal Buscema, and this first-ever career-spanning book is guaranteed to please! (176-page trade paperback with color) $26.95 (facing page) Sal has inked the work of Ron Frenz more than any(192-page other artist,HARDCOVER thanks with in colorlarge & part16 bonus to theircolor pages)longtime$46.95 collaboration • (Digital Edition) on$10.95 the various incarnations of Spider-Girl. Spider-Girl #79, page 17, cover dated Decemberhttp://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=793 2004. Pencils by Ron Frenz. ART COURTESY OF HERITAGE AUCTIONS QUEEN OF THE GOBLINS, SPIDER-GIRL ™ AND ©2010 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. 166