Roy Thomas ’Merry Mar vel Fan

No. 50 July 2005 $ In5th.e9U5SA

Sub-Mariner, Thing, , & TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.; TM & ©2005 Conan Properties, Inc.; TM & ©2005 Red Sonja Properties, Inc.; Caricature ©2005 Estate of

Vol. 3, No. 50 / July 2005 ™ Editor Roy Thomas Associate Editors Shamelessly Celebrates 50 Issues of A/E , Vol. 3— Jim Amash & 40 Years Since Design & Layout Christopher Day Modeling With Millie #44! Consulting Editor John Morrow FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert Editors Emeritus (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Contents Production Assistant Writer/Editorial: Make Mine Marvel! ...... 2 Eric Nolen-Weathington “Roy The Boy” In The Of Comics . . . . 4 Cover Artists Jim Amash interviews Roy Thomas about being ’s “left-hand man” Alfredo Alcala, , in the 1960s & early ’70s. & DC Comics 196 5––And The Rest Of Roy’s Cover Color-Splashed Career ...... Flip Us! Alfredo Alcala (portrait), Tom Ziuko About Our Cover: A kaleidoscopically collaborative combination of And Special Thanks to: three great comic artists Roy worked with and admired in the 1960s and Alfredo Alcala, Jr. Allen Logan ’70s: Alfredo Alcala , John Buscema , and Jack Kirby . The painted Christian Voltan Linda Long caricature by Alfredo was given to him as a birthday gift in 1981 and Alcala Don Mangus showed Rascally Roy as Conan, the Marvel-licensed hero on which the Estelita Alcala Sam Maronie Heidi Amash Mike Mikulovsky two had labored together until 1980, when R.T. ankled Marvel for DC Heather Antonelli for what turned out to be a six-year semi-exclusive stay. The three Bob Bailey Fred Mommsen Marvel super-heroes drawn by Big John are from 1990s re-creations of Jeff Bailey Brian K. Morris his 1960s art—while the Conan/Red Sonja illo was a commission Mark Beazley Frank Motler drawing. Jack penciled the Thing figure, complete with A/E -boosting John Benson Owen O’Leary Dominic Bongo Denny O’Neil sign, back in 1962, especially for A/E —and it was inked for V1#4 by Bob Brodsky Dave Newton A/E ’s founding editor/publisher Jerry G. Bails . Thanks to Alfredo’s Jerry Ordway widow Mrs. Estelita Alcala and to his sons Christian Voltan Alcala and Mike Burkey Alfredo Alcala, Jr., for permission to use the caricature—to Owen William Cain George Pérez R. Dewey Cassell Don Perlin O’Leary for copies of John’s re-creations (sent at the time of our tribute Mike Phoenix to John in A/E #15-16)—and to the Jack Kirby Estate (and JGB) for Lynda Cohen John G. Pierce their blessings re bashful . [Art ©2005 Estates of Alfredo Teresa R. Davidson Nick Pope Alcala, John Buscema, & Jack Kirby, respectively; Sub-Mariner, Thor, Michael Dewally Greg Preston Richard Pryor Vision, & Thing TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Conan TM & ©2005 Michael Dunne Ethan Roberts Conan Properties, Inc.; Red Sonja TM & ©2005 Red Sonja Properties, Inc.] Jennie-Lynn Falk Shane Foley Eric Schumacher Above: The indefatigable and talented Shane Foley decided—“on a Jeff Fox Carole Seuling whim,” he says—to draw, “maybe for a border or something,” these Carl Gafford Gwen Seuling horizontal and vertical groupings of a few of the many heroes Roy has Janet Gilbert handled over the past four decades… and Ye Ed liked the concept so Rick Shurgin Glen David Gold David Siegel much that it became our contents page art. Most of these guys Roy Keif Simon merely scripted a fair number of stories about—others he co-created, Bob Greenberger Joe & Betty Sinnott whether for Marvel, DC, or (in one case) Dennis Mallonee’s Heroic Curt Griff Paul Smith Publishing. Shane even worked in fighting H.G. Wells’ Ian Hamerlinck Zack Smith Jennifer Hamerlinck Britt Stanton Martians, as delineated on p. 19 on our flip side. Thanks, mate! You did David G. Hamilton Flo Steinberg yourself proud yet again! [Art ©2005 Shane Foley; characters TM & ©2005 Daniel Herman Marc Swayze their respective trademark & copyright holders.] Dann Thomas Karen Hughes Stan Lee Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. TM Tom Wimbish Alter Ego is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Alan Light Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Michele Wolfman Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: [email protected]. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their This issue is dedicated by Roy to respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. his mother –– –MRS. LEONA THOMAS FIRST PRINTING. CCOOMMIINNGG IINN AAUUGGUUSSTT #51 LEW SAYER SCHWAR TZ & THE MARK OF (BOB) KANE Plus: THE GOLDEN & SILVER AGES OF AUSTRALIA! • Full-color vintage-1950s cover by ! • LEW SAYRE SCHWARTZ — ’s “” from 1946-1953—interviewed by JON B. COOKE about his life and work! Plus Batman art by , , , WIN MORTIMER, , & others! • “The Life and Death of the Australian Comics Industry – 1940-1962!” Dr. Mensana —Captain (no lie!) —Molo the Mighty—Sir —The Panther— (no, not that one—or that one, either!) —Air Hawk— plus the astonishing “Down Under” career of The —examined by MICHAEL BAULDERSTONE! With a giant ’s pouch full of super-hero art rarely seen in the Northern Hemisphere! • talks to JIM AMASH about Timely/Marvel, Fawcett, & Quality— with art from , , etc.— on comic art— MICHAEL T. GILBERT on the legacy of —BILL SCHELLY interviews 1960s fan GLEN JOHNSON —FCA with MARC SWAYZE, , & C.C. BECK —& MORE!! [Art ©2005 DC Comics] Edited by ROY THOMAS SUBSCRIBE NOW! Twelve Issues in the US: $60 Standard, $96 First Class (Canada: $120, Elsewhere: $132 Surface, $180 Airmail). NOTE: IF YOU PREFER A SIX-ISSUE SUB, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF! TwoMorrows. Bringing New Life To Comics Fandom. TwoMorrows • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 • E-mail: [email protected] • www.twomorrows.com

Sub mit Some thi ng To Alte r Eg o! Ad ve rtis e In Alte rEgo! Alter Ego is on the lookout for items that can be utilized in upcoming issues: FULL-PAGE: 7.5" Wide x 10" Tall • $300 • Convention Sketches and Program Books HALF-PAGE: 7.5" Wide x 4.875" Tall • $175 • Unpublished Artwork QUARTER-PAGE: 3.75" Wide x 4.875" Tall • $100 • Original Scripts (the older the better!) • Photos The T woMor rows T wo -F er! • Unpublished Interviews • Little-seen Material Prepay for two ads in Alter Ego, DRAW!, Write Now!, Back Issue, or any combination and these discounts apply: We’re also interested in articles, article ideas, or any other suggestions... and we pay off in FREE COPIES of A/E. (If you’re already an A/E subscriber, TWO FULL-PAGE ADS: $500 ($100 savings) we’ll extend your subscription.) Contact: TWO HALF-PAGE ADS: $300 ($50 savings) Roy Thomas, Editor TWO QUARTER-PAGE ADS: $175 ($25 savings) 32 Bluebird Trail The above rates are for black-&-white ads, supplied on-disk St. Matthews, SC 29135 (TIF, EPS, or Quark Xpress files acceptable) or as camera- Fax: (803 )826-6501 • E-mail: [email protected] ready art. Typesetting service available at 20% mark-up. Due to our already low ad rates, no agency discounts apply. Sorry, Su bm iss ion G ui delin es display ads are not available for the Jack Kirby . Submit artwork in one of these forms (in order of preference): Send ad copy and check/money order (US funds) payable to: 1) Clear color or black-&-white photocopies. TwoMorrows 2) Scanned images—300ppi TIF (preferred) or JPEG (on Zip or floppy disk). We also accept VISA and 3) Originals (carefully packed and insured). 1812 Park Drive MASTERCARD! Raleigh, NC 27605 Include card number and Submit text in one of these forms: Phone: (919)833-8092 expiration date. 1) E-mail (ASCII text attachments preferred) to: [email protected] Fax: (919)833-8023 2) An ASCII or “plain text” file, supplied on floppy disk. E-mail: [email protected] 3) Typed, xeroxed, or laser printed pages. wrAitrteiclre /Tietled Tiotpolinerial 3 Make Mine Marvel! Roy Celebrates 40 Years Since Modeling With Mille 44 –– –And 50 Issues of A/E , Vol. 3! # ike I was saying in my editorial on the flip side—you may find it a something had to get short shrift this ish, it would be the middle and LLwee bit tricky to decide which side of this issue you read first! later years—and even they are covered, at least in passing, in the Checklist on the other side. That’s partly because my first staff job in in late June of 1965, almost exactly forty years ago, was for “Superman” line Even though, in the 11th hour, publisher John Morrow and I agreed editor at National/DC, which might seem to make that to bite the bullet and add eight more pages this month (bringing the point (plus my two Charlton stories written that spring) the logical place count to 108 for this doubly special issue), several things had to be jetti - to start. But the Weisinger stint lasted only two truncated weeks— one , if soned: the “re:” section (sigh)—my long-delayed final article on All-Star you’re the type of person who counts something as a job only if you Squadron #1 (as a lead-in to the upcoming All-Star Companion, Vol. actually get paid for it—and by Friday afternoon of Week Two, I was on 2)—a piece written with Jean-Marc Lofficier on our work together in staff at , working for Stan Lee, as detailed on the flip side. the late 1980s on several issues of The Young All-Stars —as well as That gig lasted just over fifteen years before I returned to DC—maybe coverage of my 1972-74 stint as Marvel’s editor-in-chief, and my work just to prove I’m not in the habit of changing jobs every fortnight. with Conan and other heroes created by pulp fictioneer Robert E. Howard, with which I’ve become not unhappily identified. As per usual, I had far more ambitious aims for this 50th issue than I was fated to realize. You can blame Jim Amash for that ( I certainly do): Oh, well—gives us something to shoot for in future issues—including even though we’d decided he’d interview me only about my late-1960s A/E #100, right? work at Marvel, Jim had so many good questions about that period (admittedly spilling over into the early ’70s now and then) that our talk And now, with no further ado—except for the art and caption takes up this entire half of the mag, and even squeezed nearly all our ads below—we’ll let Jim Amash march us through the merry mine-fields of onto the other side. Well, since this celebration of my 40th year as a Marvel…. comics writer is a “1965-2005” kind of thing, it seems fitting that, if Bestest,

ALTER EGO CELEBRATES 50 FABULOUS ISSUES!

Since A/E has two pairs of “maskots,” who generally appear in alternate issues, our agile Australian artistic adaptoid Shane Foley volunteered to assemble this striking collage of all four guys for #50’s “re:” section—but since there isn’t one this month, we’ve printed it here! As Shane informs us, Alter & Captain Ego (at left) were derived from figures of and Adam Warlock drawn by in Captain Marvel #21 (Aug. 1970) and #2 (May ’72), respectively—while Alter Ego and Rob Lindsay come from John Buscema -penciled figures for Sub-Mariner #1 (the 1968 one!) and #97 (March ’72)—with multi-hero sidekick Rick Jones doing double duty as both teenagers. Nice work, Shane! Roy loved seeing what these creations might’ve looked like if drawn by two of his favorite artistic collaborators! [Art ©2005 Shane Foley; Alter & Capt. Ego TM & ©2005 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly (created by Biljo White); Alter Ego & Rob Lindsay TM & ©2005 Roy & Dann Thomas.] 4 “Roy The Boy” In The Marvel Age Of Comics Rascally Roy Thomas Talks About Being Stan Lee’s “Left-Hand Man” In The 1960s & Early ’70s Interview Conducted by Jim Amash Transcribed by Tom Wimbish

IINTERVIEWER’S INTRO: Roy WHO?? —Jim. “My First Official Job Title At Marvel Was ‘Staff Writer’” JIM AMASH: You worked at DC for a week or so before you went to Marvel. Did DC hire you as an assistant editor?

ROY THOMAS: I don’t know if that term was ever used, but that’s what it amounted to. I was the assistant to Mort Weisinger, who was the editor of the “Superman” line of comics.

JA: Was there an expectation—from you or them—that you would write as well as edit?

THOMAS: Well, I’d already written a “” a few months before, while still living and teaching in the St. Louis area. Mort

“They Call ’Em ‘Associate Editors’ Because They’re The Only Ones Who’ll Associate With The Editor!” Roy Thomas (left) and A/ E associate editor/ace interviewer Jim Amash, conspiring about the mag at the 2004 Heroes Con in Charlotte, NC. Seen in front of Jim is a Spider-Man Sunday newspaper strip on which he was then assisting regular . [Photo ©2005 Sam Maronie.]

had me advanced fifty bucks when I sent it in—which helped with my one-way plane fare to New York—and I was to rewrite the story later. I worked at DC for eight days in late June and very early July of 1965. During that time, Mort mentioned that [DC -JLA editor] Julie Schwartz had expressed an interest in me doing some writing for him. He didn’t say if I’d be writing more “Superman,” but I was never told there was a policy against it. [ NOTE: See “Two Weeks with Mort Weisinger” on our flip side. ]

JA: Then you were hired by Marvel. Were you hired as editorial staff, or was there a discussion about writing?

THOMAS: I was hired after taking Stan’s “writer’s test,” and my first official job title at Marvel was “staff writer.” I wasn’t hired as an editor or assistant editor. I was supposed to come in 40 hours a week and write scripts on staff. Not exactly the easiest thing in the world. I sat at this corrugated metal desk with a typewriter in a small office with production manager and corresponding secretary Flo

The Page That Launched A Thousand Scripts The one page Roy still has of the “writer’s test” Stan gave out to would-be scripters in the mid-’60s. The test consisted of story pages 19-22 of Kirby/Stone art from Annual #2, with all balloons and captions removed, which the testee was to dialogue “Marvel style.” In July 1965, Roy apparently passed the test and got the job. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Rascally Roy Thomas Talks About The 1960s & Early ’70s 5

Steinberg. Everybody who came up “Millie” titles could be done to Marvel wound up there, and the freelance, but other writing was to phone was constantly ringing, with be counted as staff. I said I conversations going on all around couldn’t write in the office during me. Stan was in and out, too. the day. I’ve never been great at Almost at once, even though Stan shutting out noise—and besides, proofed all the finished stories, he they kept asking me to do this or and Sol started having me check the that, or questions like in which corrections before they went out, issue something happened, or Stan and that would break up my would come in to check concentration still further. something, because I knew a lot about Marvel continuity up to that I loved the job in general, but I time. (Of course, there wasn’t couldn’t get much writing done nearly as much of it then as there is from 9 to 5, so I started staying late. now, so it wasn’t that hard.) I sometimes worked alone in the office in the darkened building until It quickly became apparent to 8 or 9, as well as at Dave Kaler’s them, too, that the staff writer Lower East Side apartment where I thing wasn’t working, and Stan lived for several months. I’d put segued me over to being being an transparent tracing paper over the editorial assistant, which immedi - original artwork, lay out the ately worked out better for all balloons, then rough in the dialogue Giving Credits Where Credits Are Due concerned. I don’t know if I was in longhand, all capital letters. Roy Thomas (left) and (right), as seen in a photographic ever given that official title; they “rogues’ gallery” in the 1969 Fantastic Four Annual —plus R.T.’s first-ever just stopped thinking of me as a Gene Colan’s first “” Marvel super-hero splash, from #73 (Jan. 1966), with staff writer. I don’t recall if I got story, in Tales of Suspense #73, was pencils by Gene (as “Adam Austin”) and inks by (as “Gary paid extra for the next super-hero my first stab at writing a Marvel Michaels”). Stan Lee, who’d plotted the tale with Gene, rewrote so much of scripting I did—two Ditko “Dr. super-hero, after doing one or two Roy’s script on this, Gene’s first “Iron Man” story—roughly 50%, by Roy’s Strange” stories I dialogued [in estimates—that he made it one of the very rare Marvel stories with no “Millies.” When I turned in the #143-144]—but I got itemized credits. FYI: Sol Brodsky was production manager, Flo Steinberg “Iron Man,” I was told I wouldn’t paid as freelance for everything I get paid extra for writing it, even corresponding secretary, and Marie Severin colored the story. To quote Stan: “ Whew! ” [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.] wrote after that. And I never did though I’d done it outside office any of it in the office, not even on hours. It was explained that the two my lunch hour.

Three Offices, Five Characters – July 1965 (Left to right:) Stan Lee (the beard is post-’65) —Sol Brodsky—Marie Severin—Roy Thomas & Flo Steinberg at Flo’s desk circa ’65-’66. The photos of Stan, Sol, and Marie are from the 1969 F.F. Annual , while Flo’s personal photo of her and Roy is reproduced from Les Daniels’ 1991 book Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades of the World’s Greatest Comics . [Photos ©2005 the respective copyright holders.] 6 “Roy The Boy” In The Marvel Age Of Comics

“Ditko And [Stan Lee] Were Not On The Same Wavelength” JA: When you did those “Dr. Strange” stories, were you aware Ditko was about to quit?

THOMAS: No. I’d met him, and one of the first things I learned at Marvel was that Stan and Steve weren’t speaking to each other. Steve just came in and dropped his stuff off with Sol, and then Stan dialogued it. By then, Steve was plotting both “Dr. Strange” and Spider- Man and getting credit for it. Outside the field, I doubt anybody knew there was friction between them, because neither he nor Stan would’ve leaked that to the fan press—and who else would’ve been interested? Somehow, by some sort of Daredevil radar sense, Stan never walked into Sol’s office while Ditko was there. You’d think it might’ve happened just once by Strange But True… accident, but it never did —and the splashes of the two Ditko-drawn “Dr. Strange” stories dialogued by Roy for Strange Tales #143-144 (April-May 1966). That “written and rewritten” credit on #143, added by Stan, is mind-numbingly accurate: The Boy had to do a lot of rewriting before The Man put his imprimature on the story—but he learned a lot in the process! Photo of Ditko courtesy of Britt Stanton. [Art ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Legends At Loggerheads! (Above:) Steve Ditko’s layouts for p. 7, panel 5, of “Just a Guy Named Joe!” in Amazing Spider-Man #38 (July 1966)—his final issue—as scripted and lettered before it was sent back to the artist for inking. A few lines have dropped out on our photocopy (supplied by David G. Hamilton), but this gives you a pretty fair idea of the art Stan dialogued from when Spidey battled a super-villain in a nearly skin-tight costume. And thereby hangs a tale of two issues earlier…. (Right:) In “When Falls the Meteor!” in ASM #36 (May ’66), the silhouette (in layouts) of the villainous looked virtually identical to Spidey’s, since both wore form-fitting costumes. Accordingly, when Stan scripted the final panel on p. 13, he had to decide: did Steve mean that to be Spidey on that ledge, hunting for the fled Looter—or was it The Looter himself, hiding thereon? With no clarifying note from Steve, Stan wrote the figure as Spider-Man, and lettered it. When the story came back, however, Steve had inked the figure as The Looter—apparently the character he’d intended it to be. At this point, of course, either the balloons or the figure had to be totally changed. Thus, Roy recalls lingering at the Marvel offices well after 5:00 p.m. one nigh-Christmas day in 1965 and chatting about Charlie Biro with veteran artist Carl Hubbell (then inking ) while the latter painstakingly transformed Looter into Wall-Crawler in that panel. It wasn’t a case of Stan being right and Steve wrong, or vice versa—but if there’s a better illustration of the fact that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko weren’t playing in the same ballpark by the mid-1960s, Roy hopes someone will point it out to him. But it was a great team while it lasted! [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Rascally Roy Thomas Talks About The 1960s & Early ’70s 7 during those several months I was around.

In November or December, Ditko brought in pencils for one of his two series, and told Sol that he’d finish the episode of each hero that he was working on, and that would be it. Sol naturally went in and told Stan first, before he told me. I was sitting nearby, but hadn’t eaves - dropped on Steve’s conversation with Sol.

JA: Did Stan have you and Denny O’Neil writing dialogue for “Dr. Strange” because he was trying to scale back, or because of the friction with Ditko?

THOMAS: Mostly because he wanted to scale back, because Stan never stopped loving Ditko’s work. He just had to give something up, and Strange Tales was the book that sold the least well of any of the monthlies, no matter who drew “S.H.I.E.L.D.”—Kirby or Steranko or whoever—and no matter who did “Dr. Strange.” “Dr. Strange,” beautiful as it was, was a less important feature than “” or even “S.H.I.E.L.D.” It was the only Marvel costumed-hero strip I hadn’t always read as a fan. I’d always liked Ditko’s artwork, starting with “” at Charlton, but I just wasn’t into magicians. Now, of course, I realize I was nuts to read “Human Torch” and “Giant-Man,” and not “Dr. Strange.” But that’s the way I was at the time, and I don’t think I was alone in doing that.

JA: What was your understanding of the problem between Ditko and Stan?

THOMAS: Sol told me they’d argue about plotlines. I heard from either Sol or Stan, for instance, that Steve had wanted a major character to be crossing the street and get killed by a car. Stan nixed that idea because it didn’t seem like drama to him, even though it was realistic. Steve might not remember that incident, or he might remember it differently. I’ve never talked to him about it.

I know Stan felt The should turn out to be somebody Green Grows The Goblin important to Spider-Man. He didn’t want to repeat that bit with the man “Stan felt The Green Goblin should turn out to be somebody important to in the Crime Master’s mask [ Amazing Spider-Man #27], who turned Spider-Man. ” And, of course, he did—Norman Osborne, to be precise—but by out to be some nobody. I don’t know if that had been Stan’s idea or then, Sturdy Steve Ditko had walked and Jazzy Johnny Romita was drawing Steve’s, but I know that as a reader I’d found it dramatically unfulfilling. The Amazing Spider-Man . This sketch of the Goblin by J.R. is courtesy of the Still, I appreciated the realism: just because you take off a guy’s mask #1 Romita collector in the universe, Mike Burkey; see his buying-and-selling doesn’t mean you’re going to recognize him. This shows that Stan and ads elsewhere in this very issue. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Steve were thinking increasingly differently. Stan was doing quite well editing and writing a whole line of comics, and Ditko was feeling his you, that would not have been sufficient excuse for Martin Goodman! It oats, too, because he knew he was doing good work, and people were was just a case where two people couldn’t compromise, and of course responding to it. Certainly Stan liked it; everybody liked it. Yet, Ditko Stan had . He used it with a light rein, but when he felt he felt he and Stan weren’t on the same wavelength. He was probably right. had to use it, he did, just as anybody would. If you don’t, why be an editor at all? “With great responsibility, there should also come great I saw Steve only a few weeks after he quit, at a party at Dave Kaler’s power.” I made that up. new place on the Upper West Side. I said to him, “I’m not spying for Stan, and I won’t tell him what you say, but why did you quit?” All I JA: In articles he wrote recently for Snyder’s newsletter The remember from Steve’s vague response is a sentence fragment: “Well, Comics! , Ditko says Stan is the one who stopped speaking to him, not you know, when a guy’s working against you...” I doubt if he meant the reverse. Stan was consciously working against him, just that he felt Stan should leave things to him since he was plotting the book. At least that’s how I THOMAS: It probably was Stan, because Ditko didn’t have the interpreted it. Steve may not remember ever saying that, but I’ll swear to authority to do that: he was an artist bringing work in to an editor who’s my dying day that he did—those exact words. There wasn’t anything I his superior in the company. If it was Stan’s decision, he probably felt could say, so I didn’t pursue the matter further. I had too much respect that was the only way the two of them could go on working together. for Steve to press him. Maybe it would’ve worked better if Stan had gone on trying to talk to Steve, but it’s hard to say in retrospect, because nothing had ever existed At that stage, Stan felt he knew what was selling the Marvel comics, quite like the working relationships between Stan and Steve and Jack. It and I think he was right. He was willing to go along with a lot of what was a somewhat different arrangement than comics was used to. I won’t Steve wanted to do; otherwise, he wouldn’t have let him plot the stories. say it had never existed before, but it was relatively rare. He probably went along with a few things that were against his own instincts. But in other areas, he felt he had to dig in his heels and say no, JA: When you dialogued those “Dr. Strange” episodes, did Ditko because he was the editor. And “with great power, there must also come provide any marginal notes or writing of any kind? great responsibility.” If Martin Goodman had suddenly noticed a title THOMAS: I’m sure he did, but I believe they were sketchy. His pencils wasn’t selling and asked Stan why he had done this or that, Stan couldn’t were very loose, too—not much more than stick figures—because he reply that it was because the artist wanted to do it that way. Let me tell 8 “Roy The Boy” In The Marvel Age Of Comics The Man Without Peer was going to finish them in the inking. I’m sure there When (left) became the artist on Daredevil with #5 (Dec. were notes, not just the art, because Stan wanted the 1964), a thrilled Stan trumpeted his arrival on the splash with unabashed artists to tell what was going on, to avoid misinterpre - pride. Their short-lived collaboration produced seven issues of as tation. Jack, of course, got in the habit of writing more breathtakingly beautiful comic art as ever blessed the Man without Fear— and more in the margins. Stan would take what he and, considering other early DD artists included , , wanted from that, and felt no obligation to take any John Romita, Jack Kirby, and Gene Colan, that’s saying something! more. I think the same was true with Steve. Photo courtesy of Richard Pryor. [Art ©2005 Marvel Characters.]

JA: I had wondered about that, because I don’t recall ever seeing Ditko’s notes on the originals. I think that Ditko has at some point said that he wrote his notes on separate pieces of paper.

THOMAS: I don’t recall getting separate pieces of paper, but I only worked with him twice at that stage, so I don’t recall. “Just Show Me The First And Last Page Of Any Story You Write” JA: What were your early impressions of Stan? How much of the personality that he put into the comics did you see when you started working for him?

THOMAS: Well, in private he didn’t talk like a “Bullpen Bulletin.” He was very aware of having a public persona, the same way a performer would. You wouldn’t expect a comedian to be cracking jokes every second in private conversation. Whatever sort of public he put on things—about this being fun, or that being great—he also had to be taken seriously as an editor, and you can’t joke your way through that.

JA: We’ve heard stories about Stan sitting in his office in the ’40s and playing some kind of flute while he was editing the line. I’ve gotten the impression that, by the ’60s, he was more serious in the office.

THOMAS: I never saw him play any musical instrument, not even a kazoo. [ Jim laughs ] Right after I started working for him, I was walking around

Millie And Me one night with my new friend Len (Above & left:) Stan Goldberg, a.k.a. Brown, who worked for Topps Bubble Gum. “Stan G.,” from that oh-so-handy 1969 F.F. He and Wally Wood had worked together on Annual —and his splash for Modeling with the famous Mars Attacks! card series, and Len Millie #44 (Dec. 1965), the first issue scripted had just written the first couple of “Dynamo” by Roy T. Unfortunately, neophyte Roy failed stories for Wally at Tower. Wally had quit to indicate credits on the story—and Stan drawing Daredevil a few weeks before, and forgot to add any, as well, while rewriting Roy’s dialogue. They forgot the logo, too! Len told me how horrible Wally claimed Stan But hey—at least R.T. corrected the grammar was… including that old story about him of the Anthony Newley song “Who Can I standing on top of a file cabinet years ago and Turn to?” from which he took the title! Inker throwing all the staffers’ checks up in the air so uncertain. Photo courtesy of Stan G. they’d have to scramble for them. I said, [Art ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.] “Y’know, I haven’t seen any of that. Maybe he and Wally just didn’t get along.”

Naturally, it’s too bad that Stan and some of the best artists in the business—Wood, Kirby, Ditko—came to eventual partings of the ways, but that doesn’t pin down whose “fault” it is. They also produced a lot of good work together before parting. Partnership is a hard thing, as I always say.

JA: Yeah, and when your partner is also your boss, I guess that can cause friction.

THOMAS: Yeah, that was part of the problem between Barry Smith and me later. I thought of us as friends, and I’d gone out of my way to get Barry work. Later on, from Rascally Roy Thomas Talks About The 1960s & Early ’70s 9 things he wrote and said, it appears to me that, in spite of our hanging except his brother Larry Lieber, but by the time I came along, Larry was around together, including for a week in London in 1970, he seems to mainly doing Rawhide Kid . He didn’t really want to do super-heroes, have compartmentalized things so that I was just his boss. I’ve always even though he had written the early “Thors” and “Iron Mans”—appar - been sad about that, because I didn’t feel that way. But it’s true that, at ently in full script. Larry says he never dialogued what came to be called that time, if Barry—or some other artist—and I had a disagreement over “Marvel style”—i.e., after the art was done—on any super-hero work. a story, I was probably going to win it. I’ll admit I wouldn’t have Stan would give him the general storyline, and he’d write a full script. wanted it any other way, and they’d have done the same thing in my situation. JA: It seems to me that you were the first guy after Larry that Stan had confidence in. Why do you think that was? JA: Did Stan give you many suggestions or ideas? Did he tell you to think or write in particular ways? THOMAS: He was probably just getting tired. [ laughter ] You have to remember that all these other people, except maybe Larry, were experi - THOMAS: He was very much a teacher, at least in the early days. Later enced artists and/or writers who’d been writing comics long on, he’d talk to me when something I’d written came in for proofreading before Stan started developing a relatively new approach to super-hero all lettered and inked, which was usually the first time he’d see it. On writing in the early 1960s. They were naturally still writing the way that first “Iron Man” story and those two “Dr. Stranges,” and at least they’d written previously, just trying to make a few adjustments. one or two “Millies,” he did go over my handwritten overlays before I typed up the scripts. He’d say what amounted to: “Don’t think like For my part, I was of course influenced by the comics of the ’40s and this,” or, “Think about what this guy would be thinking now.” That ’50s, and by the 1960s DC comics written by and John “Iron Man” story wound up about 50-50 between his dialogue and Broome, and I admired ’s Doom Patrol , but I was more mine. He had liked my writing enough to hire me, and he wanted to see open to being powerfully influenced by Stan than older writers. Besides what I would do with a real story. Then he edited the heck out of me, knowing that I was supposed to write like him, I also felt that the Marvel which was only to be expected, I guess. books should be written like that. That was what was working for Stan, and even before I came to Marvel I felt he was writing the best comics This became a problem over the next few months—also with Denny on the stands. O’Neil, , maybe one or two other new writers—because waiting till a story was lettered and inked before changing maybe a I saw myself as a continuer, somebody who should just keep the hundred words or more drove production manager Sol Brodsky books going with the same feel. Since I was a relatively blank slate, I was absolutely bonkers. Suddenly, even though a book needed to go out to able to do it. When Stan saw the couple of Charlton stories I’d written the printers, he had to do all these corrections on pages already lettered earlier in more of a Gardner Fox style, he wasn’t too impressed. It’s in ink. But that’s the way Stan felt he had to work at that time, because probably a good thing I already had my job at Marvel at that point! I he was so busy.

Sometime around the turn of 1966, when I’d been there for several months, Stan told me he’d decided that he’d been changing some dialogue because it needed changing, but he went on, “Sometimes, I think I’ve just been trying to make it read like I wrote it instead of you, which doesn’t make any sense, because I’m not writing it.” I know Sol had been pleading with him to ease up on the correc - tions. Stan said, “From now on, just show me the first and last page of any story you write, and if they’re okay, I’ll assume that the rest is okay, too.” [mutual laughter ] After that, things went pretty smoothly. He rewrote a bit more later on my first X-Men and maybe even Avengers , both of which were also handwritten first on overlays, but he stopped changing as much dialogue around the start Larry Lieber & Friend of 1966. Larry Lieber, from the 1969 F.F. Annual —and a page he JA: Before you came to Marvel, Stan tried out penciled for The Amazing , , , , Spider-Man Annual #5 and Robert Bernstein as writers. A lot of experi - (1968), inked by Mike enced people were taking the writing test... Esposito—repro’d from a photocopy sent by Glen THOMAS: Not to mention the hundred or so David Gold. For the past who’d answered an ad for writers in The New York couple of decades, Larry has penciled the daily Times and taken the writing test before me. Steve Spider-Man newspaper Skeates was there a few weeks before I was, but he strip written by brother came to Stan’s attention through an article he wrote Stan. [©2005 Marvel while in college, and I have no idea if he took the Characters, Inc.] test or not.

JA: Speaking as a fan, I’d have to say that those other guys didn’t really work out.

THOMAS: Well, Stan didn’t think they did, and that was what counted. Nobody you mentioned wrote more than a handful of stories; I guess Bernstein wrote the most. Nobody had worked out to his satisfaction 10 “Roy The Boy” In The Marvel Age Of Comics think I was the right person in the right Goodman felt covers needed to be. place at the right time, but there are other Goodman liked covers by certain people people who, had they been there, might and disliked covers by others, and that’s have been just as right. why Kirby and certain other guys ended up doing a lot of covers. I used the same Steve Skeates was hired a couple of system later with John Romita, Gil Kane, weeks before me, and I helped bring and people like that. Denny O’Neil to Marvel only 3-4 months later, but somehow neither of them JA: When Kirby was doing covers, did worked out as well from Stan’s point of he and Stan talk about them before he view. They ended up with their own Before & After drew them? destinies and their own styles, and did very well eventually at DC. Somehow, I fit Two other Marvel writers who were piped aboard in 1965—a THOMAS: Probably, mostly over the few weeks before and 3 to 4 months after Roy, respectively: more naturally into what Stan felt he phone. Still, maybe Stan would sometimes Steve Skeates (left) and Dennis O’Neil. Steve’s coming to needed. I’m glad I did. just say, “Do up a cover.” I wasn’t Marvel is related in the interview. involved in that process, so I don’t really JA: God knows what would have In early ’65, Denny, a St. Louis U. graduate, was a reporter for know. Marvel’s covers weren’t subtle, and happened to you career-wise if that The Southeast Missourian , the daily newspaper of Cape weren’t intended to be cute and ironic like hadn’t worked out. Girardeau County, where Roy had been raised. Denny wrote a a lot of covers nowadays. The cover was pair of articles for it about comics—Roy’s mother mailed usually pretty close to a scene from the copies to him in the St. Louis area, where he was teaching— THOMAS: I’d still be working for Mort book, or something that symbolized the Weisinger. He’d have stuck around just to the two 20-somethings got together—and Denny wrote a third comics article for the paper, about Roy and comics fandom. story. torture me! [ Jim laughs ] Come fall, Roy sent Denny the same writer’s test he’d taken to get his job at Marvel—and the rest is history of a sort. “The People In The Other “I Can’t Tell What The Hell’s Thanks to Bob Brodsky and Steve for the Skeates photo, and to the Denster himself for his own. Bob is editor/publisher of The O’Neil Observer , a fanzine dedicated to Denny’s work and Departments Looked Down On Going On Here!” related matters (esp. re comic book writing). This summer, JA: How much involvement did Martin Bob’s Childhood Summer Publications is also launching The Comics” , dedicated to the Marvel Age of Goodman have in the Marvel books? The Yancy Street Gazette Comics, 1961-1975, whose first issue will feature material on JA: Who else was working there when THOMAS: Mostly the covers, at that , , Roy Thomas, and much more. you started? stage. In 1961, of course, he’d told Stan to To learn more about both publications, e-mail [email protected] . THOMAS: Not many people. Stan had a start a super-hero group book, but once nice big office in the corner, which was things got moving, I think he left most of bigger than the other two offices put it to Stan. He’d just say yes or no when Stan had a new idea. He together. Next to him was a little office with room for 3-4 people, if you wouldn’t have said, “Do a man,” because Stan says he hated the had a shoehorn. Sol and Flo had their own desks in there, and when I idea of a character named “Spider-Man” and thought it wouldn’t sell. came I sat at this corrugated desk that was already there. Soon after, they And, however Sgt. Fury evolved—whether Kirby had developed the brought in Morrie Kuramoto as a staff , and I think he worked in concept earlier or whatever—Stan probably remembers correctly when there for a while, but it was crowded. he says he wanted to do a war book, just to prove he could sell one. Maybe the precise team was already on There was another, smaller office across the hall from ours—Denny Jack’s shelf, since has said Jack showed it to him earlier, but I doubt if Jack influ - enced Stan to do a war comic.

JA: Maybe Stan mentioned the possibility of a war book to Kirby, and Kirby—who already had Sgt. Fury at home—said, “Hey, I’ve got this idea!” Who knows how Publish Or Perish! much of what Kirby originally This is one of several had might have been tinkered caricatures of Timely/Marvel with? publisher Martin Goodman that appeared in Krazy THOMAS: Nobody really Komics #12 (Nov. 1943). Art by knows. I wasn’t there when it Ed Winarski? Thanks to Jim was started. To answer your Vadeboncoeur, Jr. [©2005 original , Goodman had “I’d Like To Propose A Roast!” Marvel Characters, Inc.] little to do with the interiors, Though Rascally Roy worked with/for Smilin’ Stan from 1965-80 and since then on TV but Stans always says Goodman cartoons and other projects, this photo—taken at the Stan Lee Roast at the 1995 Chicago had a good eye for covers, for what might or might not sell. Comic-Con—is one of the relatively few showing them together, in this case with the other Once around 1968-69 a Gene Colan Dr. Strange cover drawing roasters. (Left to right:) , , , Roy, Stan, , was submitted to Goodman, and he fired it back with a note John Romita, Julie Schwartz. A transcription of the Roast appeared in A/E V3#1, which saying, “I can’t tell what the hell’s going on here!” Beautiful as is currently out of print; but one of these days…! Thanks to William Cain for the photo— they were in their way, Gene’s covers weren’t always as clear as and Godspeed home from the Middle East, Bill! Roy Thomas ’ Dynamic DC Comics Fan zine

$ In5th.e9U5SA No. 50 July 2005

PLUS::

Art ©2005 Jerry Ordway; Characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics FOUR FABULOUS, FUN-FILLED DECADES WITH: ADAMS * ALCALA * AYERS * BUCKLER * BRODSKY * THE BROS. BUSCEMA * CHAN * COLAN COLÓN * DITKO * EVERETT * FOX * GIORDANO * GOLDBERG * HECK * INFANTINO * KANE KIRBY * LARK * LEE * MACHLAN * McFARLANE * ORDWAY * PÉREZ * PUGH * ROBBINS * ROMITA ROTH * SCHWARTZ * THE SEVERIN SIBLINGS * SHAW! * SMITH * TRIMPE * TUSKA * WEISINGER —not to mention the FAVORITE COMIC BOOK WRITERS & EDITORS OF THE 20th CENTURY! Vol. 3, No. 50 / July 2005 ™ Editor Roy Thomas Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash Design & Layout Christopher Day Roy Thomas Shamelessly Consulting Editor Celebrates 50 Issues of John Morrow A/E , Vol. 3—& 40 Years Since FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck “The Dragon Delinquent!” Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert Contents Editors Emeritus Jerry Bails (founder) Writer/Editorial: Up, Up—And Away! ...... 2 Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich Comic Crypt: The Fox And The Fan ...... 3 Michael T. Gilbert showcases Roy’s 1961 letters to veteran-pro idol Gardner Fox. Production Assistant Eric Nolen-Weathington Two Weeks With Mort Weisinger ...... 9 Cover Artists Roy relates why those 8-9 days in 1965 were like four years with an angry mob! Jerry Ordway “1965 – A Watershed Year” (For Roy Thomas, Among Others) . . . . . 13 Alfredo Alcala, John Buscema, A brief word by Bill Schelly about how and why Roy jumped ship from DC to Marvel. & Jack Kirby Roy Thomas Checklist ...... 16 Cover Colorist An illustrated and annotated guide to forty years of comic book writing and editing. Tom Ziuko, Alfredo Alcala (portrait) And Special Thanks to: “The Company He Keeps…” ...... 26 Alfredo Alcala, Jr. Allen Logan The Comic Buyer’s Guide 2000 poll of 20th-century comics favorites, annotated by Peter Sanderson. Christian Voltan Linda Long Alcala Don Mangus The Doctor Is In! ...... 33 Estelita Alcala Sam Maronie Found: more “Dr. Mid-Nite” art from that long-lost mid-1940s “Justice Society” story! Heidi Amash Mike Mikulovsky Heather Antonelli Al Milgrom Bob Bailey Fred Mommsen The Angels of A/E ...... 34 Jeff Bailey Brian K. Morris A Too-Brief Intro To Five Who Made Alter Ego What It Is Today—Whatever That Is! Mark Beazley Frank Motler John Benson Owen O’Leary Dominic Bongo Denny O’Neil # Bob Brodsky Dave Newton FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America ) 108 ...... 37 Rich Buckler Jerry Ordway P.C. Hamerlinck & John G. Pierce on Roy’s Fawcett Connection—plus Marc Swayze. Mike Burkey Tom Palmer William Cain George Pérez R. Dewey Cassell Don Perlin “Roy The Boy” In The Marvel Age Of Comics ...... Flip Us! Ernie Chan Mike Phoenix People always said you’ve gotta stand on your head to appreciate Roy Thomas. Lynda Fox Cohen John G. Pierce Teresa R. Davidson Nick Pope About Our Cover: We didn’t quite have room enough there to squeeze in this entire Justice Michael Dewally Greg Preston Society-plus illustration by Jerry Ordway —so you’ll see it in full on the very next page! And yes, Shel Dorf Richard Pryor we noticed that and /Hawkwoman are the Silver Age/Earth-One versions Michael Dunne Ethan Roberts of that pair, while of course never was a JSAer—but collector Michael Dunne, who Jennie-Lynn Falk Peter Sanderson Shane Foley Eric Schumacher commissioned Jerry to do this great drawing, agrees with Ralph Waldo Emerson (and Ye Editor) Jeff Fox Carole Seuling that “A foolish consistency is the of little minds.” Thanks to both Michael and Jerry for Carl Gafford Gwen Seuling their blessing to use the piece as the perfect cover for the more-or-less “DC side” of Roy’s 40th- Janet Gilbert Marie Severin anniversary issue! Oh, and the cover photo of Roy was taken by a professional photographer back Dick Giordano Rick Shurgin Glen David Gold David Siegel in the 1980s, as a gift from his and Dann’s good friend Jennie-Lynn Falk, namesake of Jade’s alter Stan Goldberg Keif Simon ego. [Art ©2005 Jerry Ordway; characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] Bob Greenberger Joe & Betty Sinnott Curt Griff Paul Smith Above: We figured that most readers, even those halfway familiar with the work done by Ian Hamerlinck Zack Smith Roy Thomas since 1965, would be thrown for a loss by the use on our cover of the phrase Jennifer Hamerlinck Britt Stanton “The Dragon Delinquent!”—so here it is again, on our capricious contents page! Roy’s article David G. Hamilton Flo Steinberg Daniel Herman Marc Swayze on pp. 9-11 will explain why it appears in both spots—and why the image atop this page is the Richard Howell Dann Thomas / cover for Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen #91 (March 1966). Karen Hughes Maggie Thompson [©2005 DC Comics.]

Stan Lee Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. TM Larry Lieber Alter Ego is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Tom Wimbish Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Alan Light Michele Wolfman Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: [email protected]. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their This issue is dedicated by Roy to respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. his mother –– –MRS. LEONA THOMAS FIRST PRINTING. 2 writer /edTiittle orial Up, Up ––And Away!

ike I was saying in my editorial on the flip side—you may find it pages—indeed, there’s hardly space to do more than acknowledge that LL a wee bit tricky to decide which side of this issue you read first! said milestone has been reached. But “50” is only a number, after all— not really that much different from #49 or #51. That’s partly because, although probably my major “claim to fame,” such as it is, is the fifteen years I spent with Stan Lee and Marvel from Even so, I wanted to call particular attention in this issue to our four 1965-1980, I actually arrived in Manhattan in late June ’65 to accept a regular contributing editors—Bill Schelly, Jim Amash, Michael T. staff position at DC Comics (then National Periodicals) under Gilbert, and P.C. Hamerlinck—and to A/E ’s poor overworked layout “Superman” editor Mort Weisinger. But in very early July, after only guru Christopher Day. You can meet the men behind the mag on pp. two weeks, I was “up, up, and away” to Marvel, as detailed in the 34-36. Thanks, guys! It’s been a blast so far—and if the best isn’t yet to following three pieces. Still, it was my entrée into the wacky world of come, it sure won’t be for lack of our trying, right? professional comic books—and it’s unlikely I’d ever have moved to without that offer from Mort. The end result, for me, has Onward: to keep DC-related material in roughly chronological order, been a rewarding 40-year career as a comics writer and ofttimes editor— we’re starting this time with Michael T. Gilbert’s “Comic Crypt” including returning to DC in the 1980s to develop All-Star Squadron section—which actually goes back to 1960-61, but deals with the period and other titles. that sowed the seeds for the DC offer in ’65...!

My flip-side writer/editorial lists some of the items that had to be Bestest, tossed overboard to keep the good ship Alter Ego #50 afloat even at 108

Here, as promised a whole page ago, is a full-art version of Jerry Ordway’s gorgeous JSA-and-friends illo, as sent to us by collector Michael Dunne and printed with both lads’ permission. We wanted you to see the whole drawing, in untrammeled black-&-white. Hey, maybe one of these days we can even print Jerry’s original layout for the piece, which has a couple of the heroes in different positions! [Art ©2005 Jerry Ordway; characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] [The above art is a detail from Michael’s cover for the 1999 revised edition of Bill Schelly’s book The Golden Age of Comic Fandom .] 9 Two Weeks With Mort Weisinger Or, Four Years With An Angry Mob (Take Your Pick) A Reminiscence by Roy Thomas

his article saw print, in a slightly different TT form, in Comic Book Marketplace #58 (April 1998), in conjunction with other material about longtime DC editor Mort Weisinger. I was asked to write a few paragraphs for a sidebar on my brief experience with him, and got carried away, as is my wont. Article ©2005 Roy Thomas. Our thanks to for his blessing to reprint it here, and to Brian K. Morris for a typing assist.

Since I was one of Mort Weisinger’s “discoveries”— though maybe “fiascos” is the word he’d have used—I felt it was high time I exorcised a few demons by writing Superman’s Pal, Roy Thomas about him. Roy, seen at left circa 1947-48, was clearly already a Superman fan by age 7—nearly two decades away from Back in early-’60s comics fandom, Mort’s six writing the script that would form the basis of the story “Superman” titles, clearly aimed at a younger audience “The Dragon Delinquent!” in Superman’s Pal, Jimmy Olsen than fellow DC editor ’s mags, were #91 (March 1966). Art by ; script by pretty much taken for granted and rarely discussed in Dorfman. What? Never heard that R.T. was associated with . Alter Ego , for instance, devoted a lot of space to the Justice that particular tale? Read on! The photo, by the way, was Society and Captain Marvel, but practically none to the super-hero the sole visual that appeared with this article when it was originally published in Comic Book Marketplace . With who’d started it all. thanks to Mrs. Leona Thomas. [©2005 DC Comics.] Because I corresponded from 1960-65 with Julie Schwartz, I knew he pacing our apartment for half an hour, I accepted Mort’s offer and and Mort had been friends since even before they’d published one of the turned my back on an academic career. But, having sent two sample very first science-fiction fanzines back in the ’30s, but I knew little else comics scripts earlier to Julie, and having just sold two scripts to about Mort. Still, when I wrote virtually my only fan letter to a Charlton, I wasn’t about to turn down a chance to work in the comics “Superman” mag—one concerning Herko the Monster in a “” industry! (Besides, truth to tell, I had till summer’s end to formally reject tale, because he reminded the fellowship, so I could hedge my bets.) me of old Captain Marvel creatures (and why not? Mort offered me a starting salary of $110 a week (about what I was the artist was Kurt then making as a teacher) and a two-month trial period. I borrowed and Schaffenberger!)— read a box full of “Superman” comics from my friend Biljo White, Weisinger responded with bought a new suit—and waited eagerly for summer. a courteous letter. As I did with every other pro I During that time I spoke only once with Mort on the phone. One knew of, I sent him freebie day he called me at school, out of the blue, for a reason I can’t recall. All copies of A/E [Vol. 1] #7-8 I remember of the brief conversation is his speaking of “the Superman in ’64 and early ’65. mythology.” By then I’d come to respect, at least to a certain extent, what he was doing with , Imaginary Stories, way too many Then, in spring of ’65, surviving Kryptonians, and all those shades of . only days after accepting a graduate fellowship in At his invitation, I also wrote a “Jimmy Olsen” script in which the foreign relations that was young reporter went undercover to join a youthful street gang. I felt it to be my ticket out of needed more pages than the usual eight, but Mort said that was impos - teaching high school, I sible, so I wrote it in eight and sent it off. Mort soon advised me that he received a second letter wanted a rewrite, but said that could follow when I got to New York. I Time Travellers Two from Weisinger—offering was paid a $50 advance (the rate was $10 a page), to help pay for the air me a trial position at flight out. This photo of longtime friends and DC National/DC as his editors Mort Weisinger (seated) and Julius And so, on the last Monday in June, I arrived in Manhattan in the assistant. My fellow Schwartz—who as teenagers had launched midst of a taxi strike, and carried my one suitcase and portable electric teacher Albert Tindall—the The Time Traveller , one of the first science- typewriter more than a dozen blocks to the DC offices at 575 Lexington guy who’d wangled the fiction fanzines, and had soon opened an sf Avenue. I was so excited that I accidentally passed right by the Standard literary agency—appeared in The Amazing fellowship for me and Brands Building wherein DC was located, and had to backtrack a couple Worlds of DC Comics #3 (Nov. 1974). But it who’d go on to become a of blocks carrying my increasingly heavy load. had probably been taken a few years prominent attorney in earlier, since Mort retired in 1970 and —was That day I met Mort Weisinger—and everything started to go wrong. passed away in 1978. dumbfounded that, after 16 Roy Thomas Checklist

[NOTE: The following is adapted from information supplied by Dr. Jerry G. Bails in his Who’s Who of 20th-Century Comic Books . Those interested in being informed when Jerry’s updated version of the Who’s Who will be available should e-mail him at [email protected] . Some data added by Roy Thomas. Except where otherwise noted, all credits below are for writing or co-writing (often, esp. after 1981, with wife Dann Thomas). Roy was also officially the editor of material he wrote at Marvel from late 1972-1981, and of his DC work from 1983-89, but that status is not generally noted in this Checklist. Titles not in italics often refer to features which appeared at various times both in their own Innocents Abroad? magazines and in anthologies . Key: (e) = editor; (Above:) Dann and Roy at the Vatican, (n.c.) = no credit; G.A. = Golden Age.] 2003—and (right) a caricature of the happy couple done by artist Paul Smith for Roy’s 1979 birthday bash, near the end of Ye Name: Roy William Thomas, Jr. (b. 1940) (writer, Editor’s first stint as writer of Marvel’s Member: CAPA-Alpha , 1965-66 Conan mags. [Art ©2005 Paul Smith.] editor) Contributing Writer: All in Color for a Pen Name: Justin Arthur ( #240 only) Dime (1970 book, reprinted from Xero #9, 1962); introductions to various Chronicles of Conan [Dark Horse] , DC Archives , Marvel Education: B.S. in Education, Southeast Missouri State University, Masterworks , and other books related to comic books 1961; Master’s degree in Humanities from California State University, 2005 Comics Based on Atari Video Games: Atari Force (1982, mostly written by Gerry Conway); Swordquest (limited distribution; some co- Non-Comics Influences: Joseph Heller, Homer, Robert E. Howard, written with Gerry Conway)—both done through DC William Shakespeare Writer (Special Material): Marvel’s Carnegie Hall Concert, Jan. 1972 Comics Writing/Editing Influences: Stan Lee, & Jack Kirby, , , Otto Binder, Gardner Fox, Julius Writer: Topps Batman cards 1966 (some with ?) & super- Schwartz hero parodies c. 1967

Will The Non-Pérez F.F. Art Please Sit Down? (Right center:) For a Marvel-UK reprinting of the Impossible Man-starring F.F. #178 (Nov. 1976), whose tale had to be broken into two weekly parts, this new panel (prepared by the New York staff—artists and writer uncertain) depicts a conference between George Pérez, Stan Lee, Roy, and Jack Kirby. It replaces a Pérez/Sinnott panel which had been printed at the end of the first part, and led directly into the following four-panel sequence in the second: (Bottom center:) Pérez/Sinnott panels from F.F. #176 of that selfsame story conference. Script by R.T. (Far right:) For sitting through all that, we figure you deserve to see this actual sketch of the F.F., courtesy of artist George Pérez and collector Curt Griff. [Panel art ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.; sketch ©2005 George Pérez; Fantastic Four TM & ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.] 26 “The Company He Keeps…” The Comic Buyer’s Guide ’s 1999-2000 Poll Of Comic Book “Favorites” by Peter Sanderson, with Roy Thomas oy here, relating all art captions and italicized paragraphs 15 choices listed RR that follow—with Peter’s analysis in non-italicized text in the first two below: In issues dated January 2000, the popular tabloid- divisions, and The cover of Comic Buyer’s Guide #1365 (Jan. 14, format Comic Buyer’s Guide , under editor Maggie Thompson, the top 26 to 30 2000), which spotlighted the poll of pros and fans conducted a wide-ranging poll of comic book fans and professionals in the “ CBG ” examined in this article. Art by John Drury. alike concerning their “Favorite” writers, editors, artists, stories, division. The [©2005 Krause Publications, Inc.] companies, etc., of the 20th century—while emphasizing that results are “Favorite” is not necessarily the same thing as “Best.” roughly summarized below after each division. The Comic Buyer’s Guide gave special prominence to the five “Favorite” creators in each While naturally no poll of this sort can ever be anything like defin - category as averaged from the above three divisions; so it’s those itive, the project was intriguing as the major experiment of its kind— choices that are analyzed below, in brief professional biographies and I’d be a liar if I said I wasn’t both surprised and gratified, when written by comics historian and longtime Marvel staffer Peter the results were announced, to find myself ranked #5 among Sanderson. “Favorite Writers” and #4 among “Favorite Editors.” If, as they say, a man is known by the company he keeps, I was pleased to find While this issue covers only the “Writer” and “Editor” choices, it is myself in some very formidable company—and while I wouldn’t planned that in a near-future issue Peter will discuss the results of the argue overmuch with those who’d place me somewhat (or even poll in artistic and other categories. And a special thanks to Maggie considerably) lower on those particular totem poles, I decided to use Thompson, senior editor of Comic Buyer’s Guide , and to Krause the occasion of this 50th issue of Alter Ego to recapitulate and Publications, for permission to utilize this one-of-a-kind poll. comment upon the selection, half a decade later. All specific art and photos, incidentally, have been added for this A/E And now, with no further ado, I turn you over to the blandish - presentation. ments of Peter Sanderson….

The CBG poll was conducted and its results announced on three levels, as explained and defined in The Favorite Editors of the Century the magazine itself: the voting of “General Fandom,” of (1) STAN LEE . Starting out as a teenage “go-fer” at Timely “Comics Professionals,” and “ CBG Readers.” The results Comics in the early 1940s, Stan Lee quickly in the three areas were listed separately, with the top 13 to

The Not-So-Secret Origins Of Marvel Comics Stan Lee in the mid-1970s—plus the splash pages of the two most important stories he ever edited (as well as wrote). Fantastic Four #1 (Oct. 1961) inaugurated a new approach to super-heroes with dynamic penciler/co- plotter Jack Kirby and an unidentified inker—while in #15 (Aug. 1962) Stan as editor replaced the redoubtable Kirby with Steve Ditko as artist of the very first “Spider-Man” tale, thereby mutating that “new approach” yet further, since Ditko would prove to be unsurpassed in his ability to convey everyday emotion and events in a super-hero feature. The instincts shown in both these choices are what make for a great editor, though of course he had the ideal writer working for him, as well—namely, himself . [©2005 Marvel Characters.] 34 The Angels of Alter Ego A Too-Brief Intro To Five Who Made A/E What It Is Today—Whatever That Is! by Roy Thomas

ou don’t get to 50 issues of a magazine like Alter Ego —or at least the vital “Comic Fandom Archive” section— Jim Amash came aboard YYI didn’t—without the enthusiastic help of people who are just as with #11, at the time of his first A/E interview (with Vince Fago), and nutty about the subject matter as the editor is. even helps with the proofreading of each issue— Michael T. Gilbert has been on hand every single time with his always-intriguing “Comic Actually, in A/E ’s case, there are seven people in particular I ought to Crypt”— P.C. Hamerlinck segued his ambitious incarnation of FCA thank— eight , if I count my old friend Jerry G. Bails , who founded the (Fawcett Collectors of America ) over into A/E with V3#1, and, just the fanzine in 1961 and has given inestimable help to this volume, as well— like other three, has never missed a deadline! Neither has Christopher because I should definitely include John Morrow , the lesser half of Day , who assumed layout responsibilities on the mag with #8, and over TwoMorrows Publishing, and TwoMorrows staffer Eric Nolen- the past few years has bailed me out of innumerable tough spots— Weathington , who’s been aboard for several years himself. But, alas, including this issue. we’ll have to cover John and Eric another time. (Oh, and thanks to Jon B. Cooke for convincing me to revive A/E in 1998!) At the last minute, I asked each of this fabulous fivesome to rush me brief auto-bios. So let’s hear a hearty hand for these tireless “Angels of But I did whatever squeezing had to be done in order to introduce Alter Ego ”! Thanks, guys. I couldn’t do it without you. the four guys who basically edit their own segments of each issue before I get a chance at them, plus one who then assembles the magazine from Fact is, as you well know—I can barely do it with you! the marked-up text files and art copies I ship him each month. Bill Schelly has been listed as associate editor since V3#1, and also handles But now, I’ll let you speak for yourselves…!

Bill Schelly Jim Amash I was in 1951 in Walla Walla, I was always interested in art. I was fascinated by George Washington. For as long as I can remember, “Superman” Reeves on television and started drawing him. But being a I’ve wanted to be a writer. When I was a kid fickle sort at 5 years old, I diverted my attention to Batman when of 9 or 10, I wrote short stories and even tried turned up in the cape and cowl in January of 1966. So I to write a novel. With my discovery of comics drew super-heroes and villains fighting on brown paper bags, in fandom in 1964, I found my métier: fanzine textbooks, on the living room walls (behind the couch, of course), on publishing. I think I’ve had printer’s ink in my sidewalks, and in tunnels. I thought I had my future well in hand, blood ever since. because I was going to be a .

I stayed active in fandom, publishing a slew of marginal-quality I quickly learned there was more to being an artist than drawing like Super-Heroes Anonymous, Fantasy Forum, Incognito, and heroes and villains knocking each other’s teeth out. My first grade my best-known, Sense of Wonder . But when I was rejected by DC’s history book was full of exciting stories about the founding of this “new talent” program in 1973, I drifted away from comics until I got country. The pages were full of detailed drawings, engravings, and my feet on the ground. My first book was Harry Langdon , a painted scenes of Daniel Boone taming the wilderness, George hardcover from Scarecrow Press, which came out in 1982. Washington liberating the American Colonies from British rule, and Abraham Lincoln freeing the slaves and saving the Union. On In 1985, when I took a job in a building that also housed a comics television, I saw Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, and Roberto specialty store, my interest in comic books was re-kindled, and it was Clemente fighting a very different kind of battle. All these influences just a year later than I opened Super Comics and Collectibles, the first taught me that heroes come in all shapes, colors, uniforms, eras, and comics store in Seattle’s University District. But it wasn’t until I linked up with some old fandom cronies in the pages of CAPA-Alpha that I began researching what became the first book-length history of fandom, The Golden Age of Comic Fandom (1995). In the course of writing and designing that book, I asked Roy Thomas if he would write its introduction. Thus began a sort of fandom partnership with the Rascally One that led to my role as associate editor of the new Alter Ego . In fact, I was the one who introduced John Morrow to Roy (at the 1997 Chicago comicon), which got the ball rolling.

The past dozen years since my re-entry into the wonderful and wacky world of Comicdom have been the most creative and prolific times of my life. I love being a small part of the new Alter Ego story, and only wish there were more hours in the day so that I could contribute more. Oh, and one other thing: I haven’t lost my sense of wonder! [Captain Marvel TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] 41 Touting Thomas Roy Thomas Spotlighted By John G. Pierce, P.C. Hamerlinck—And, Er, Roy Thomas

look at R.T.’s own special “Fawcett connection” over the years, as both fan and pro, as examined by regular contributor John G. Pierce and by AA FCA ’s editor—and then, from an earlier issue of FCA , in RT’s own words…. I. A Tribute To A Fannish Influence by John G. Pierce Edited By P.C. Hamerlinck It was not long after I discovered Julius Schwartz’s early Silver Age comics, in the late 1950s, that I also discovered Roy Thomas. He was there, in those entertaining letter columns, and it was he who first referenced an earlier age of comicdom that I’d missed out on. It was Roy who first alluded to the original versions of , , and other characters. In fact, my own very first published letter, in The Flash , picked up on a point made by Roy in an earlier letter of his own. Countdown to Xero FCA and Alter Ego have both printed the 1946-47 photo of Not long after all that, in early 1961, Alter-Ego #1 turned up my mailbox. It was Roy at age 6, sporting his Captain Marvel sweater—so we’ll the first fanzine I’d ever seen or even heard of. And was I surprised that there his lead off with this mid-1940s Fawcett house ad. The cover art name was as co-editor of this marvelous publication? I no longer recall, but if so, I from an oversize issue of Gift Comics , spotlighting Captain probably shouldn’t have been. Roy’s articles, not only in A/E but in other fanzines, Marvel, , Bulletman, Mr. Scarlet, Golden , as well, informed me about the Golden Age. He covered Timely’s All Winners Squad and Ibis the Invincible, was adapted by R.T. as the title art in A/E #2, for example. for his article “Captain Billy’s Whiz Gang” in the 9th issue of the Lupoffs’ legendary sf/comics fanzine Xero in 1962. [Heroes TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

In another fanzine named Spotlite , he wrote about . And then there was his entertaining “Captain Billy’s Whiz Gang” in the 9th issue of the Lupoffs’ Xero , which treated the other Fawcett stars such as Bulletman, Spy Smasher, et al. It was this piece, incidentally, which provided the first mention of Fawcett’s one-and-only attempt at a JSA-type group, the Crime Crusaders Club from #41.

But it wasn’t just articles. For Alter Ego , Roy also

Cap’n Biljo & Corporal Roy In 1964, fan-artist Biljo White let his fellow Missourian Roy research his virtually complete collection of comics featuring Captain Marvel and his offshoots for Roy’s Alley-winning article “One Man’s Family” in Alter Ego [Vol. 1] #7. For the illo at right, which accompanied the piece, Biljo adapted C.C. Beck’s classic cover for #10 (April 1947), on which Cap and kin are beating up Dr. Sivana’s. Wonder how they’d all have fared on Family Feud!? [Characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] 42 Roy Thomas Spotlighted By John G. Pierce, P.C. Hamerlinck—And, Er, Roy Thomas wrote a prose story, with illustrations, of his own proposed revival of All-Star Squadron. It was almost too much excitement for me to of The Spectre. And, of course, who can forget his delightfully funny bear—the JSA (and hangers-on from the early ’40s) having their own parody of the JLA, “The Bestest League of America”? feature again, and Captain Marvel being handled by Roy?

Roy and I appeared together in a fanzine called Headline, published Oh, admittedly, I wasn’t too crazy about his idea of a totally new, by Roy’s fellow Missourian, and future Marvel co-worker, Steve Gerber. Earth-1 Captain Marvel, drawn in a more realistic style. “I’m sorry if Roy wrote about some of his childhood creations, while I contributed this isn’t your idea of a ‘Captain Marvel fan,’ I really am,” Roy wrote. original prose fiction in the form of stories about a creation of mine “I simply feel that, much as I often dislike the idea, ‘that was then, this called The Black Hand—a Spectre imitation! So Roy was partly respon- is now.’” sible for my own contributions to that fanzine, as well as his own! However, I was quite enthusiastic about what Roy had told me about But perhaps my favorite piece of his came in A/E #7 (1964), with his his story for DC Comics Presents #33-34, as his letter continued: “Still, “One Man’s Family,” an article about Fawcett’s Marvel Family. Oddly just to be inconsistent, I took the opportunity in DC Presents #34 to enough, though Captain Marvel was mentioned from time to time in toss Superman and Captain Marvel (whom I’m trying to forge into fast early fanzines, there weren’t really all that many articles about him. (The friends, since they have far more in common than Superman and earlier articles which had appeared in Xero aren’t counted here, because Batman, say) into a funny-animal dimension, while using Hoppy the that was a science-fiction fanzine, and besides, I never saw those pieces!) Marvel Bunny for the first time in 30 years.” Although I had heard So Roy’s loving treatise on not just Cap, but the rest of the clan as well, about Hoppy back in the early ’60s, it was that aforementioned “One was most welcomed. I’d have to say that this one piece went a long way Man’s Family” article in A/E #7 which had provided me with my first toward fueling my growing interest in look at the character (in the form of a Captain Marvel, foreshadowing the day Biljo White re-creation illustration) and when I would become a full-blown more information about him. And ever Fawcett fan, collector, the publisher of since, I had loved the idea of a rabbit my own Marvel Family fanzine (The version of the Big Red Cheese. So to Whiz Kids), and a writer of articles about contemplate his return, even if only for the Big Red Cheese and his companions. one story, generated more fannish excitement than I’d had in years! But then Roy broke into the comics industry. Should this have been a surprise, And that story (co-plotted by Gerry either? Anyone with his love of and Conway) turned out to be good fun, too, devotion to the four-color world was bound to end up in the field. In fact, it would be hard to imagine such a person as thriving anywhere else. He started at IF YOU ENJOYED THIS PREVIEW, DC, and almost before anyone was the CLICK THE LINK TO ORDER THIS wiser, he was over at Marvel. (I have to be ISSUE IN PRINT OR DIGITAL FORMAT! honest and say that, while I read some of Roy’s stuff from Marvel, there’s quite a lot I didn’t read, as well. I know it is practically a first-order heresy in fandom to admit this, but I’ve never been a great Marvel enthusiast.)

However, I was there when Roy took over a character named Captain Mar-Vell (for the second time), and turned that name-stealer into an updated, Marvelized version of the original, as he linked the ’s former ally, Rick Jones, with Cap via Nega-Bands. The slamming together of the wrist-bands brought Cap from his imprisonment in the , while sending Rick there, and vice versa— The Magic Went Away his own version of yelling “!” In a slightly grittier vein than the 1939- With outstanding Gil Kane art, Marvel’s 40 original by writer/editor Captain Marvel became a feature worth and artist C.C. Beck, scripters Roy & following for a while. As Rick Jones was Dann Thomas and artist portray the first time Billy Batson fond of saying at the time, it was “faaan- ALTER EGO #50 changes into the World’s Mightiest tastic.” Mortal, in Shazam! The New Beginning ROY THOMAS covers his 40-YEAR career in comics #1 (April 1986). (The fact that this page (AVENGERS, X-MEN, CONAN, ALL-STAR SQUADRON, And then came 1981, with Roy’s is repro’d from a Spanish-language INFINITY INC.), with ADAMS, BUSCEMA, COLAN, DITKO, GIL return to DC. And what should he write, edition shouldn’t confuse anybody all KANE, KIRBY, STAN LEE, ORDWAY, PÉREZ, ROMITA, and many upon his return, but one of his Golden that much.) Roy appreciates hearing others! Also FCA, & MR. MONSTER on ROY’s letters to Age favorites, the DC version of the that then-DC editorial head honcho GARDNER FOX! Flip-covers by BUSCEMA/ KIRBY/ALCALA and original Captain Marvel! A letter from Dick Giordano confirmed to John Pierce JERRY ORDWAY! him to me, dated Oct. 10, 1980, informed what Roy’s always maintained: that me of this, as well as some of his plans for sales on that 4-issue series should’ve (100-page magazine) $5.95 another old favorite, the JSA, in the form led to a full-scale monthly Shazam! (Digital Edition) $2.95 http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=98_55&products_id=317