OFFICIAL RECORD of PROCEEDINGS Friday, 15 May 2015 the Council Continued to Meet at Nine O'clock
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LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 15 May 2015 10561 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Friday, 15 May 2015 The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, B.B.S., M.H. PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P., Ph.D., R.N. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. 10562 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 15 May 2015 THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S. THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 15 May 2015 10563 THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN DR THE HONOURABLE KENNETH CHAN KA-LOK THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN 10564 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 15 May 2015 THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHUNG SHU-KUN, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S. MEMBERS ABSENT: THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN DR THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TANG KA-PIU, J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 15 May 2015 10565 PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE TSANG TAK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS THE HONOURABLE WONG KAM-SING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MR MATTHEW LOO, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 10566 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 15 May 2015 BILLS Committee Stage CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Good morning, Committee will continue to scrutinize the Schedule to the Appropriation Bill 2015. We now continue with the sixth debate. Dr Kenneth CHAN, please speak. APPROPRIATION BILL 2015 DR KENNETH CHAN (in Cantonese): Good morning, Chairman. Good morning, Hong Kong … (Mr Albert CHAN stood up) CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Dr Kenneth CHAN, please hold on. Mr Albert CHAN, are you requesting a headcount? MR ALBERT CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, please summon Members back to the Chamber under Rule 17(3) of the Rules of Procedure. CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members back to the Chamber. (After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members returned to the Chamber) CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): I wish to remind Members once again that the time allocated to this debate is around nine and a half hours and yesterday, we already spent around four and a half hours on it. Will Members who intend to speak in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 15 May 2015 10567 this debate please indicate their wish as early as possible and wait for your turns. I will call upon the Members who have proposed amendments to deliver their final speeches later on. Dr Kenneth CHAN, please speak. DR KENNETH CHAN (in Cantonese): Chairman, good morning, Members. Good morning, parents in Hong Kong. Yesterday evening, I started to speak on the amendment I have proposed to deduct the salary of Secretary Eddie NG for the coming year amounting to $3.58 million in the Budget. How well is Secretary Eddie NG versed in education? How is his performance? If we should make observations on his performance by listening to his words and observing his deeds, I believe as at today, both colleagues in the pan-democratic camp and the pro-establishment camp will know that Members are greatly dissatisfied with him if they have paid attention to him during meetings. This has nothing to do with politics or political views. This is a question of the personal charisma, efficiency or effectiveness demonstrated by him. In fact, let us take a look at the Public Opinion Programme of the University of Hong Kong, and in the polls a very good question was asked: "Do you wish to vote for his reappointment?". This year, that is, in 2015, in the several rounds of opinion polls conducted most recently, the results have found that less than 18% of the public would wish to see him remain in office. Regarding this Secretary for Education with a net popularity rating of negative 26%, this is a very interesting question. What kind of a person is he? What contributions has he made? What strengths does he have? Obviously, a conclusion that can be drawn from the past three years is that he quite likes visiting different countries and travelling around the world, as he was away for 87 days and conducted a total of 23 duty visits. Such on-the-job training is actually quite wasteful of public coffers. If we look at this more seriously and ask him what achievements have been made after these visits to overseas countries during which he lived in five-star hotels, flew in business class and brought along a deputation with him visiting here and there, we will see that he did not report much on his visit upon return and in fact, there was no report whatsoever to speak of. Therefore, this is also the problem that I particularly pointed out in the first place last night. 10568 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 15 May 2015 This trend of frequent overseas visits is indeed evinced most clearly during the tenure of Secretary Eddie NG. Many colleagues in the education sector take exception to his conduct. In fact, not only have I openly criticized him here, I have also tendered a piece of advice to him in private. I told him not to go too far. I said that all deeds of human can never escape God's eyes, and the people can see what he has done. He, therefore, said ― or perhaps according to the advice tendered to him by people around him, he said that he would think about a solution, and it turned out that the answer is to reduce the number of visits to overseas countries but increase that of visits to the Mainland. In his past 23 duty visits I found that he actually visited the Mainland China on almost half of these occasions. This actually leads to the next question and that is, who exactly are the people in charge of the education system in Hong Kong? Of course, Members may immediately say that it is sheer common sense that under "one country, two systems" and the framework of the Basic Law, the education issues in Hong Kong should definitely be addressed by Hong Kong and should definitely be dealt with by the Secretary for Education of Hong Kong, so how can people outside Hong Kong make irresponsible remarks and issue instructions in the back seat? But this is not quite true in reality, and this is exactly the point we consider most worrying. Over the past few years, especially after the furore over national education, there have been more and more voices claiming that the Secretary for Education of Hong Kong should accept more instructions and supervision from Beijing in order to effectively take forward national education or education on state affairs.