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Hansard (English) LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 April 2012 8553 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Wednesday, 25 April 2012 The Council met at Eleven o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN IR DR THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND HO CHUNG-TAI, S.B.S., S.B.ST.J., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN DR THE HONOURABLE DAVID LI KWOK-PO, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FRED LI WAH-MING, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE MARGARET NG THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG MAN-KWONG THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS SOPHIE LEUNG LAU YAU-FUN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE WONG YUNG-KAN, S.B.S., J.P. 8554 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 April 2012 THE HONOURABLE LAU KONG-WAH, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MIRIAM LAU KIN-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW CHENG KAR-FOO THE HONOURABLE TIMOTHY FOK TSUN-TING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LI FUNG-YING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE AUDREY EU YUET-MEE, S.C., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE LEE WING-TAT DR THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG HOK-MING, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, B.B.S., J.P. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 April 2012 8555 THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C. THE HONOURABLE CHIM PUI-CHUNG PROF THE HONOURABLE PATRICK LAU SAU-SHING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KAM NAI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHAN MO-PO, M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE THE HONOURABLE WONG SING-CHI THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE IP WAI-MING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PAN PEY-CHYOU THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. 8556 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 April 2012 DR THE HONOURABLE SAMSON TAM WAI-HO, J.P. THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN MEMBER ABSENT: DR THE HONOURABLE PHILIP WONG YU-HONG, G.B.S. PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION THE HONOURABLE AMBROSE LEE SIU-KWONG, G.B.S., I.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE PROF THE HONOURABLE K C CHAN, S.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY THE HONOURABLE EVA CHENG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING THE HONOURABLE GREGORY SO KAM-LEUNG, J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 April 2012 8557 CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MS PAULINE NG MAN-WAH, SECRETARY GENERAL MRS CONSTANCE LI TSOI YEUK-LIN, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MRS PERCY MA, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 8558 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 April 2012 PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber? (After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber) TABLING OF PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure: Report No. 17/11-12 of the House Committee on Consideration of Subsidiary Legislation and Other Instruments Report of the Bills Committee on Securities and Futures (Amendment) Bill 2011 Report of the Bills Committee on The Hong Kong Polytechnic University (Amendment) Bill 2011 ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Questions. First question. Appointment of Members of Elderly Commission 1. MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Good morning, President. "While meat is left rotten in the kitchens of the rich, thousands of people are freezing to death in the streets. What the Chief Executive spent for one night in a hotel can feed an elderly person for three years ……" LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 April 2012 8559 PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, according to the Rules of Procedure, you must ask your question in the terms in which it was handed in. MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): Oh, I see. In that case, I will explain this poem later. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, please read out your main question immediately. MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): All right. "What the Chief Executive spent for one night in a hotel can feed an elderly person for three years" …… PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, if you violate the Rules of Procedure again, I cannot let you ask your question. MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I only recited it in a low voice. PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Please read out your main question in the terms in which it was handed in. MR LEUNG KWOK-HUNG (in Cantonese): I understand. Thank you, President, for your guidance. President, quite a number of members of the social welfare sector and elderly people have relayed to me that the appointment of most of the members of the Elderly Commission (EC) is very controversial and contrary to the general rule that a non-official member of an advisory body should not serve on the same body for more than six years. Despite criticisms from a number of Legislative Council Members of the current term, the Government continues to re-appoint such members or even appointed some of them as the EC Chairman or 8560 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 April 2012 Vice-chairman. Some front-line social workers have pointed out that the Government's practice of cronyism has led to years of failure in its elderly policy, causing quite a number of elderly people to suffer innocently. In this connection, will the Government inform this Council: (a) of the number of elderly people who died in the past five years while waiting for elderly services (including places in subsidized residential care homes for the elderly (RCHEs), private RCHEs participating in the bought place scheme (including contract RCHEs), subsidized Nursing Home, Integrated Home Care Services and Enhanced Home and Community Care Services), and set out the breakdown and the total numbers by year; (b) as the EC Chairman has been appointed as non-official EC member for 13 years and the Vice-chairman for nine years, whether the Government assesses the performance of the EC members on the basis of the number of elderly people who died while waiting for elderly services to decide if such members should stay on or be appointed as the EC Chairman or Vice-chairman; and (c) of the Government's measures to enhance the credibility of the EC and address the public concern that the EC may have become a bargaining chip for political deals and transfers of benefits for political parties, the business sector and people from the pro-Government camp; whether the Government will consider appointing members of the Panel on Welfare Services of this Council and representatives from the Hong Kong Council of Social Service and various elderly groups as ex-officio EC members, so that they may assist in formulating policies from a professional point of view and reflect public opinion; if it will, of the time of appointment; if not, the reasons for that? SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): President, the EC was established in 1997. It is mainly tasked to advise the Government on the policy for the elderly and related programmes and services. Appointment of members to the EC is made in accordance with the Government's general LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 25 April 2012 8561 guidelines (guidelines) for the appointment of members to advisory and statutory bodies. My reply to the question raised by Mr LEUNG Kwok-hung is as follows: (a) For the period between 2007 and 2011, the numbers of elders who passed away while waiting for subsidized nursing home (NH) places, care-and-attention (C&A) places and home care services each year, as well as the aggregate numbers in these five years, are provided at Annex of the written reply. The Government acknowledges that elders have to wait for some time to be admitted to subsidized places at present, in particular for NH places which provide a higher level of care. In this connection, we have adopted a series of measures to increase the provision of subsidized places. From now on (that is, 2012-2013) to 2014-2015, over 1 600 additional subsidized residential care places for the elderly are expected to commence operation, of which over half (about 900 places) are NH places.
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