10156. (I. SHARP)
ISAAC SHARP, under former oath,
EXAMINATION BY MR. TRJINGOVJI CONTINUED s
The next meeting is a meetingof the 11th
March, 1956. I hand to you a document marked G-. 528. Is that in your handwriting? Yes. Mv Lord.
Does it refer to a meeting that you attended?
Yes.
On what date? On the 11-th March, 1956.
What kind of meeting was that? Federation of South African Women.
Where was it held? At the Trades Hall*
Johannesburg? Yes.
Were you present there? I was present there
Did you make a note of the people you saw attending this meeting? I did.
Is that the note you have "before you? Yes.
That was made at the meeting? Yes.
Now the second name on your list, what is that?
Lilian Ngoyi.
No. 4? • Helen Joseph.
No. 6? • Ida Mtwana.
No. 13? Mary Rantha. No. 16? Bertha Mashaba.
No. 24? Ronald Edwin Press
No. 27? T. Minusi.
No. 29? B. Seitchiro. No. 30? A. E. Patel.
No. 33? Simon Tyiki. No. 36? Phineas Nene.
No. 50? Fish Keitsing.
No. 52? Joe Matlou.
No. 53? R. Resha. 10157. (I. SHARP)
No. 54? Sbrahim Moolla. No. 60? Peter Nthithe.
No, 63? 31ias Moretsele. No. 64? Lionel Morrison. No. 66? Patrick Molaoa.
No. 67? Henry Gordon Makgothi.
No. 69? Stanley Lollan. No. 70? Dr. H.M. Moosa. C M c - No. Yetta Barenblatt.
No. 73? John Nkadimeng. Thisi parson that you referred to as Joe Matlou, do you know if he is known by any other name? Itis the only nans by which I know him, Jonas Matlou.
The next meeting is a mooting on the 22nd of
April, 1956. Sharp, I hand - My Lords, Detective Sergeant
Schoeman gave evidence of this meeting, G. 488 and 489 f were the documents that he referred to. Sharp, I hand you a document marked G. 493. Is that a document in your hand- writing? It is in my handwriting.
Does it refer to a meeting that you attended?
Yes.
On what date? On the 22nd.4.1956.
Where was this meeting held? At the
Trades Hall, Johannesburg.
The notes which you have there, were they made at the meeting? Yes, My Lord.
BY MR. JUSTICE BARKER :
V7here were you sitting in the hall? It was outside, My Lord.
BY MR. TR5NG0VE :
And these people that you refer to, where were they? They were in the hall attending the meeting. 10158. (I. SHAKE)
BY MR. JUSTICE E3KK3R :
I am not quite clear, did you take the names as they went in, or where did you take the names? I took the names, My Lord, asthey entered the hall, and to later I went up/the door of the hall,
BY MR. TRaNGOVa :
•Refreshing your memory from your notes, can you say whether or not these people attended the meeting in the hall? They attended the meeting in the hall.
On that date? On that date.
And you have a note there that this meeting lasted from 9 a.m* to 6 p.m.? That is correct, My Lord.
What is the second name on your list there?
Leon Levy.
No. 3? J 'hrv Nkaclimeng.
No. 11? Obed Motsabi.
No. 15? net Beyleveld,
No. 17? Sydney Shall.
Ih. 18? Cleophas Sibando.
No. 19? Patrick Molaoa.
No. 20? Joe M&tlou.
Nc. 21? Aaron Mahlangu.
BY MR. JUSTICE KENNEDY ;
Do you know what sort of meeting it was?
It was the meeting of the South African Congress of
Trade Unions, My Lord.
BY MR. TRSNGOVIC :
This Aaron Mahlangu that you have mentioned, do you know him? I do, My Lord.
Do you know from your own knowledge whether he was active in any organisation at that time? He was active in the A.N.C. and the South African Congress of 10159. (I- 3HART)
Trade Unions.
Do you know of anybody else "by that name who
was active in the same organisations at that date? No,
My Lord,
This name that you have referred to, Beyleveld, 5
who was he? He is the ex-Iresident of the South
African Congress of Trade Unions,
Do you know him? I know him, My Lord.
Do ynu know if there was any other persrn by
that hame active in the South African Congress of Trade 10
Unions at that time? No, My Lord.
That concludes the evidence of this witness
on this meeting, My Lords.
Lid you know a person attending this meeting,
Leon Levy? I do. 15
Is he the one you have identified? Yes.
Do you know whether or not he was actively
engaged in the activities of any organisation at that
stage? Yes, My Lord.
In what? The South African Congress of 20
Trade Unions.
Do you know of anybody else by that name,
Leon Levy? No, My Lcrd.
The next meeting, My Lords, is a meeting of
the 24th June, 1956. Detective Sergeant Schoeman gave 25
evidence on this meeting, My Lords. His relative docu- ments are marked G. 901 and G. 902, My Lords. Detective
Sergeant Hatting}? also gave evidence on this meeting,
and the relative document in his case is G. 924 and G. 925.
Sergeant Sharp, I hand to you a document which does not 30
bear a number - we can make it G. 920a - is this a docu- ment in your handwriting? Yes, My Lord. 10160. SHARP> Does it refer to a gathering that you attended?
Yes, My Lord.
On what date? On the 24th.6.1956.
What gathering was that? Where was it held?
It was the Congress of the People, Kliptown, on the 5
24th June, 1956.
What is the heading of your note? "Commemo- ration of the Congress of the People, First Anniversary",
Were you present there? I was present, My
Lord. 10
Was this note made on that occasion? It was.
You made a note of the people that you saw there? Correct.
And you also made a note of certain other observations at this Conference? Yes, My Lord. 15
Nov/ the second name on your list, what is that? Faried Adams.
That is the list of people who were there? Yes. No. 4? Lionel Morrison. 20
After the name of Lionel Morrison you have got a comment? Yes.
What is the comment? "He and Paried Adams and another fix slogans on the platform".
No. 6 on your list? Dr. R. E. Press. 25 No. 11? Sidney Shall.
No. 12? Helen Joseph.
No. 16? Norman Levy, I am sorry, Leon Levy.
Let us get No. 15 first? — — Norman Levy.
No. 16? Leon Levy. 30 No. 17? — Sam Masimola. No. 21? Ida Mtwana. 10161 (I. SHARP)
No. 25? Stanley Lollan.
No. 31? Marks William Shop No. 32? Jbrahim Moolla.
No. 35? Dr. H.M. Moosa.
No. 44? Andries Chamile. No. 48? Elias Moretsele.
No. 49? Pish Keitsing. No. 51? Philemon Mathole. No. 52? Bennet Seitchiro.
No. 55? Sampie Malupe. No. 56? Leslie Masiha.
What have you got behind his name? Chairman.
After No. 59, then you have a note there?
Correct.
What does that note say? "Leslie Masina 15 made opening remarks". "Sampie Malupe interpreted"*
Then you continue with people? Yes.
No. 60? Simon Tyiki.
No. 64? Theophilus Mmusi.
After No. 64 you have got a further note? 20 tea. What note is that? -• - "Philemon Mathole read the Presidential - the President-General's message".
Then you continue with names of people who were there? Yes. 25
No. 68? Lilian Ngoyi.
No. 71? Obed Motsabi.
Then after Obed Motsabi you have got a note?
Yes, My Lord. "Philemon read certain messages".
Then after that you have got a note,what is 30 that? P have a note here about Leon Levy.
Have you got the name of Leon Levy? Yes. 10162. SHABP)
Have you got a note after his name? Yes.
What does that refer to? "Thanked for the invisation to speak".
The next name is No. 75? Hymie Barsel.
No. 76? Aaron Mahlangu. 5
No. 77? H.G. Makgothi.
And then immediately after H. G. Makgothi, have you got a note that somebody said anything?
"Chairman comments".
And then after that, have you got the name of 10 the person following upon that? Isaac Bokala.
Aft .r Isaac Bokala, have you a further..?
"Chairman's comments".
What was his comment there? "The last speaker to address you about Congress Trade Unions is 15 the President of the S.A.C.T.U."
And then did he announce the next speaker?
The next speaker is Mrs. Ngoyi.
Have you got a further note there in connec- tion with Mrs. Ngoyi? "Who is going to speak on the 20 women's pass laws". "Leslie Masina interpreted form
Mrs. Ngoyi in Snglish and she spke in Xosa".
Then you have - you took down names 78 and
79? Yes.
Now turn to No. 83. What hame is that? 25
David Khumalo.
Look after 86, have you got a note, what happened after 86? "E.P. Moretsele addressed the gathering".
And did anylbhdy act as interpreted? 30
James Hadebe.
And then after Moretsele spoke, have you got /
10163. (I. SHARP)
a comment of anybody - of somebody else there? Who was
the next person who did something according to your note?
"Chairman comments".
After that? "Lilian Ngoyi led certain
singing".
And then 87? Jonas Matlou.
No. 88? Phineas Nene.
No. 91? Lawrence Nkosi.
No. 93? John Nkadimeng. 10 No. 97? Robert Resha.
No. 98? Mary Rantha.
No. 100? Reverend D. C. Thompson.
No. 104? Bertha Mashaba.
And then after Bertha Mashaba, have you got a
note there? The chairman made an announcement. 15
Then have you got a note there - your next
note after the chairman made a comment? "I want a
representative from the Peace Council, Reverend Thompson".
And then Rjgerend Thompson, according to your
note, he spoke then? That is right. 20
Then your next note after that, whom does that
concern? Moretsele.
You made a note that he sang a song about what?
Jomo Kenyatta.
After that? Comment by the chairman. 25
And after that, did anybody speak, according
to your note? Helen Joseph.
Who interpreted for her? No, I haven't got
that note.
After Helen Joseph you have a note of some 30
other person? Cert Sibande.
Does your note say anything about him? 10164. (I- SHARP)
"He spoke in Zulu, interpreted by s^me nan unknown".
The identity of this person was disclosed to you at a later 3tage? Yes.
Then after Gert Sibande, who was the next speaker? Stanley Lollan. 5
During Stanley Lollan1s speech, did anybody make a statement? Robert Resha said "You all see the
Government dogs following Sibande".
Then After Robert Resha made that remark, have you got a further note there? Lollan continued 10 his speech.
After that, you have the chairman's comment?
Correct.
And then who was the next person you have noted there as doing something? Dr. H.M. Moosa. 15
Have you got a note of what he did? He spoke.
After Dr. Moosa spoke, you have a note that there were comments by the chairman, is that right? ——
That is correct. 20
And then have you got a note of somebody giving a message from the Eastern Ca.pe? Yes, "I am going to call a speaker from the Eastern Cape".
And then your last note after No. 107, what does that refer to? Dr. R. E. Tress. 25
What did you note him as doing? He read a resolution. The concludes the evidence on this meeting, My Lords. The next meeting is a meeting of the 11th and 12th August, 1956. I hand to you a docu- ment marked G. 820, and also a document marked G . 821. 30
Are those notes in y^ur handwriting? Yes, My Lord.
Of a meeting attended by your? Yes, My Lord. (I. SHARP)
Now G. 821, what does that refer to? To
the Federation of South African Women, Trades Hall,
12.8.1956.
Did you attend a meeting there on that day?
I did, My Lord. 5
And 820? It refers to the Federation of
South African Women, a meeting on the 11.8.1956.
Where were these - where was this meeting held
o,n the two dates? At the Trades Hall, Johannesburg.
.and did you make notes on the two days of the 10 people you saw attending this meeting? I did, My Lord.
Refer to G. 820 first. The first name that you have got there? - Helen Joseph.
No. 2? Dr. H.K. Moosa.
No. 5? R. Moosa, - no, I am sorry, it is 15
Patrick Molaoal No. 6? -•— Hilda Watts.
No. 7? -— Yetta Darenblatt.
No. 9? -— Piet Beyleveld. No. 12? Ruth First.
No. 13? Theophilus Mmusi. No. 14?-•— Lilian Ngoyi.
No. 15? Henry Tshabalala. No. 18? Lionel Morrison.
No. 19? Fish Keitsing. No. 20? Simon Tyiki.
No. 27? Jonas Matlou. No. 28? R. Resha.
No. 30? Mary Rantha. Have you a comment behind her name? 30
"Chairman".
Nr. 31? Tennyson Makiwane. 10166. 41. SHARF)
No. 33? Paul Joseph.
Have you a comment behind his name? "He stood outside".
No. 35? Bertha Mashaba.
No. 36? Ida Mtwana. 5
No. 38? Peter Nthithe.
No. 4-0? Henry Gordon Makgothi.
No. 44? Claphas Sibande.
No. 50? Stanley Lollan.
No. 53? Sam Masimola. 10
No. 65? I beg your pardon?
No. 64, I am sorry? Alpheus Molewa,
No. 69? Jerry Kurnalo.
And the name just before that, 68? Obed
Motsabi. No. 71? Moosa Moolla.
No. 74? _ibrahim Moolla.
The last name on the list? Alfred Hut- chinson.
Now refer to the document marked G. 821, that 20 refers to the 12th August, 1956? —- Correct.
Have you got that list in front of you? I have it. The second name on your list? Tennyson
Makiwane.
No. 3? Henry Tshabalala.
No. 4? Helen Joseph.
No. 9? Fish Keitsing.
No. 10? Ida Mtwana.
No. 14? Dr. H.M. Moosa. 30
No. 17? Andries Chamile.
No. 20? Lilian Ngoyi. 10167. (I. SHARP)
No. 21? Bertha Mashaba.
No. 22? Marks William Shope.
No. 24? Ibrahim Moolla.
No. 32? Cleophas Sibande.
No. 33? Mary Rantha. 5
No. 37? R. Resha.
No. 39? Aaron Mahlangu.
No. 42? Yetta Barenblatt.
No. 44? I-M. Kathrada.
Have you made a note of what he did? He 10 came by car.
Where was he? Ho was outside.
He didn't go in? No, My Lord.
This A.M. Kathrada, is that the one you have identified? Yes. 15
No. 46? Alfred Mahlangu.*
No. 48? Moosa Moolla.
No. 49? Lionel Morrison.
No. 50? Stanley Lollan.
No. 51? Faried Adams. 20
No. 61? Piet Beyleveld.
No. 62? Ruth First.
Can you remember, how did you come to know of this meeting? There is nothing to indicate in my notes how I came to know about it. I cannot remember. 25
I wish to draw Your Lordships' attention to the New Age of the 9th August, 1956, in which the following notice appears - No, My Lords, I had better first make quite sure that this New Age has been handed in. That concludes the evidence on this meeting. Sergeant Sharp, 30 in your evidence relating to the meeting of the 24th June,
1956, you referred to somebody who spoke at that meeting, 10168. 9 (I. SHARP)
"by the name of Gert Sibande. Do you know this person
Gert Sibande? I do^: My Lord.
Will you be able to identify him if you seen him in Court? Yes.
Would you s tep down and do so if you see him 5 in Court? (Accused No. 20).
The next meeting, My Lords, is a meeting of the 23rd September, 1956. Sergeant Schoeman gave evidence,
My Lords, relating to this meeting, G. 490 and 491, and also Hattingh, G. 492. My Lords, I am handing the 10 witness some notes, I suggest that they be marked G, 490a.
Sergeant Sharp, you have before you certain notes. Are they in your handwriting? Yes, My Lord.
And were they made by you when you attended a certain meeting? Correct, My Lord. 15
On what date? On the 23rd September, 1956.
What organisation held this meeting? The
South African Congress of Trade Unions.
Where was it held? At Kliptown, My Lords.
Did ycu make a note of people who spoke and 20 people who attended this meeting? I did, My Lord.
Could you refer to your notes. Who was the chairman at this meeting? L, Masina.
You made a note that he spoke at the commence- ment of the meeting, is that correct? Correct. 25
Did anybody - did you make a note of the language he spoke tin? It is not quite clear. He was speaking in English.
Have you got a note there of anybody who interpreted for him? J. Nkadimeng. 30
After the chairman, did you make a note of anybody else who spoke? P. Beyleveld. 10169. (I. SHARP)
Did you make a note of the language that he spoke in? English.
Who interpreted for him? C. Sibande.
After he spoke, does your note show that the chairman made certain comments? Correct. 5
Were those comments interpreted by anybody?
Jerry Kumalo.
And after that, who was the next speaker?
C, Sibande.
In what language did he speak? In English. 10
Was his speech interpreted? It was inter- preted by J. Kumalo.
After Sibande spoke, who was the next speaker?
J. Nkadimeng,, in English.
Was his speech interpreted? By A. Bahlangu. 15
Then you have a no'be aft-r him somebody spoke?
V. Hashe (?).
Thai; speech was also interpreted? Yes.
This person spoke in English and who acted as interpreter-? J. Kumalo. 20
After that, who was the next speaker?
Mary itantha, in English.
Who interpreted? A. ft^ahlangu.
After Mary Rantha, who spoke? J. Nkadimeng.
In what language? English. 2 5
Was his speech interpreted? By A. Mahlangu.
That - and then you have a note after Nkadimeng, did anybody read a resolution? Chairman read resolutions.
Did you then - have you then also got a note of the people that were present at this meeting? Correct.
Apart from the people who spoke and people you have mentioned as acting as interpreters, have you got - what (I. SHARP)
is name No. 16 on your list? J. Kuinalol
No. 17? Obed Motsabi.
No. 19? Tennyson Makiwane.
No. 21? Marks W. Shope.
No. 27? Lawrence Nkosi. 5
No. 38? Dr. R. E. Press.
That concludes the evidence on this meeting.
May I just revert to the Conference held on the 11th and
12th August, 1956, the Federation of South African Women.
I invite Your Lordships' attention to the New Age of the 10
9th August, 1956, put in in the series G. 1123. The notice
is headed "Women's Conference this Weekend". "Hotfoot
from the Pretoria protest, women of all races will go to
the Second National Conference of the Federation of South
African Women to he held in the Trades Hall on Saturday 15
and Sunday, August 11th and 12th. On the Conference
Agenda are the struggle against passes, to he introduced
by Miss Bertha Mashaba," and then other matters on the
agenda are mentioned, "Bantu Education Act, Mr. Robert
Resha". 20
BY MR. JUSTICE RUMTFF ; t Why are you reading all this?
BY MR. TRSNGOVE s
Just to disclose the full natre of this meeting.
BY MR. JUSTICE RUMTFF i 85
We don't know that those topics were discus-
sed at the meeting. What does it help to refer us to
this, how does it take the case any further? Did Schoe-
man give evidence about this meeting?
BY MR. TRENGOVE ; 30
My Lords, Schoeman didn't give evidence about
this meeting. This witness only gave jvidence about the
lu^ji. 10171. (I. SHARP) people who attended this meeting, and we just want to show what this conference was, it was advertised as a Conference at which the Women's Federation were going to discuss certain matters. The next meeting, My Lords, is a meeting of the 7th November, 1956. Detective Sergeant Coetzee gave 5 evidence as to this meeting, G. 722 and G. 723. Sharp,
I hand to you a document marked G. 727, these are notes made by you in your handwriting? Yes.
Does it refer to a meeting that you attended?
Yes, My Lord. 10
On what date? On the 7th.PU1956.
What organisation was responsible for this meeting? Society for Friendship with the Soviet Union,
At the Gandhi Hall.
Were those notes made by you at the meeting? 15
Yes, My Lord.
And they refer tonpeople that attended the meeting? Correct.
Your first notes referring to anybody at that meeting, to whom does that refer? Hymie Barsel. 20
And what note havo you got there? At the
Credentials Table.
Then No. 3? Lilian Ngoyi.
No. 4? Reverend D. C. Thompson.
No. 7? Paul Joseph. 25
No. 10? Yetta Earenblatt.
No. 12? Dr. R. E. Press.
No. 14? John Nkadimeng.
No. 15? P.P.D. Nokwc.
No. 17? R. Resha. 30
No. 18? Joe Matlou.
No. 19? Obed Motsabi. 10172. (I. SHARP)
No. 20? Tennyson Makiwane.
No. 23? Faried Adams.
Then you have a note there that the chairman opened the meeting? Correct.
Have you a note of who the next speaker was? 5
Lilian Ngoyi.
Then you have a note of further people that were present at the meeting? Yes,
No. 28, who was that? Moosa Moolla.
Then you have a note of the third speaker? 10
Paul Joseph.
A note of the fourth speaker? -— P.P,D. Nokwe.
That concludes the evidence on this meeting,
My Lords. The next meeting, My Lords, is a me.ting of the
11th November, 1956. I hand to you a document marked 15
G, 910. Are those notcis in your own handwriting?
Yes, My Lord.
Do they refer to a meeting that you attended?
Correct, My Lord.
On what dte? 11.11.1956. 20
What organisation held that meeting? My note doesn't say.
Where was the meeting held? It was held at the Isaacson Hall, 7/hite City, Jabavu.
I want to hand to you a document marked 25
G. 911. Before looking at the front of this document, look at your endorsement on the back, and see if you can identify that document? I do, My Lord.
Where did ycu get that document? I bought the document. 30
Where did you bjzy it? At the Isaacson
Hall, Jabavu. 10173. (I. SHARP)
On what date? On the 11.11.1956.
Do you know - can you remember whether or not
it was on that day at this Isaacson Hall when you bought
this document - what were you doing at the hall? I was on duty there, My Lord. 5
On duty doing what? Keeping observation
there.
What were you doing at the hall at that time when you bought this document? My Lords, I can't remember, but I must have been somewhere outside the hall. 10
I c an' t re me mbe r.
You don't know whether you bought the document inside or outside the hall? I can't remember.
Did you notice whether or not a meeting was being held at the hall at that time? Yes, My Lord. 15
At this hall? Yes.
And did you hotice people attending this meeting? I did, My Lord.
Would you have a look at your list, I want you to refer to the names on your list, and see whether these 20 people attended the meeting. My Lords, a document has been handed in, marked N.R.M. - marked M.R. 97 and F, 24.
My Lord, the Crown will submit that the evidence this witness ig giving now is relevant as to what is contained in that document. 25
BY MR. JUSTICE RUMFFF :
Does that document give information of a particular meeting to be held at a particular hall on a particular place?
BY MR. TREKGOVE : 30
That document, My Lords, M.R. 97 and F. 24, contains the Presidential Address delivered by somebody 10174. (I. SHARP) at the Isaacs Hall, Johannesburg, on the 11th November,
1956.
BY MR. FISCHER s
I submit My Lords, that that is merely hearsay.
All the witness says is that he purchased a document, 5
BY MR. JUSTICE RUMPFF :
He is not dealing with this document. He is referring to documents that have been Sanded in already, and the document which has been handed in is the duplicate apparently. It refers to a particular person, his Fresi- 10 dential Address, and I take it certain other information on that document.
BY MR. FISCHER s
$hat still does not connect it with this moment of time when this witness says he was on duty 15 keeping observation.
BY MR. JUSTICE RUMPFF :
There is soma evidence from which an inference may be made. What time was this meeting?
BY MR. TEENGOVE ; 20
What time did you get there, Sharp? I got there, My Lords, at 10.20 - I got there at 9.40 My Lords, and the meeting opened at 10.20 a.m.
According to your notes you stayed there - well, we will get to that, but you stayed there for some 25 time. Now the fifth name on your list, what is that?
The names of people who were present at the meeting when you made your observations. First tell me, where were you? I was at the Isaacson Hall.
Were you inside the Hall or outside? 30
Outside„
What did the people do whose names you took 10175. (I. SHARP) down? They entered the hall*
Do you know what was going on in the hall?
Theie was a Conference there.
And when these people were in the Hall, do you know what they were doing there? They were talking there.5
At the conference? At the conference.
They were attending the conference? Yes,
Now of the people you observed there, No, 5 on your list? Emily Ramoakane, (?)
The name just before that? Marks Shope. 10
The second name after Emily Ramoakane? —
And rie s Chamile.
Who is No. 8? Sampie Malupe.
No. 9? Ida Mtwana.
No. 10? Philemon Mathole. 15
No. 15? P. Nokwe.
No. 20? Sorry, No. 19? Aaron Mahlangu.
No. 20? Helen Joseph.
No. 21? Bertha Mashaba.
No. 23? Lilian Ngoyi. 20
No. 28? Prans Kodi. (?).
No. 29? Pish Keitshing.
After No. 32 you have made a note, is that correct? Yes, My Lord.
To what time does your note refer? It refers25 to 11.15 a-m.
What is that note? "N.R. Mandela brought
Bertha Masha by car".
.after name No. 36, have you got a note there?
I have. 30
What does that r.jfer to? "Sophie Williams brought to meeting by A.M. Kathrada". 10176. (I. SHARP)
And the time you have got there? 11.55 a.m.
And then No. 38? Y. Kotini (?).
No. 47? Obed Motsabi.
No. 58? Bartholomeus Hlapane.
No. 65? Bennet Seitchiro. 5
That concludes the evidence on this meeting,
My Lord. Sergeant Sharp, you say you have a note there
on the last page at the top. "/hat does your note say?
It is "W.G.F.", "Wogien's Conference Federation",
BY MR. JUSTICE RUMPPF : 10
Is that all that appears there, "W.C.F."?
Yes, My Lord.
BY MR. TRENGOVS :
The next meeting, My Lords, is a meeting of the 25th of November4 1956, Sergeant Sharp I hand to you 15 a document marked G. 287. Is that a document in your handwriting? —— Correct* My Lord.
Does it refer to a meeting that you attended?
Yes, My Lord.
On what date? On the 2 5-11.56. 20
Znd where was this meeting held? At the
Broadwqy Cinema, Fordsburg.
What kind of meeting was it? My Lord, it was a Quit Egypt Rally.
Do you know by which organisation this 25 meeting was called? It was called by the A.N.C.,
South African Coloured People's Organisation and the
C.O.D., My Lord.
Your notes, were they made at this meeting?
They wore made at this meeting, My Lord. 30
And do they relate to people...? The one organisation-'-- Is omitted there, My Lord. 10177. (I. SHARP)
It was called by the T.I.C., A.N.C., S.A.G.I.O. and the
C.O.D.
Did you make a note of people who were present at this meeting? I did, My Lord.
Would you look at your list, what is the first 5 name? Simon Tyiki.
No. 12? Hymie Barsel.
No. 14? Phineas None.
No. 17? Leon Levy.
No. 19? Moosa Moolla. 10
No. 21? Faried Adams.
No. 27? Lionel Morrison.
No. 29? Dr. H.M. Moosa.
No. 31? Slias Moretsele.
No. 32? Robert Resha. 15
No. 34? Sbrahim Moolla.
After No. 37 have you got a note thare of who was chairman at this meeting? L. Masina.
And then you have got the name of the first speaker? Yes. 20
And then 41? Obed Motsabi.
Immediately after No. 42 you have got another name of a speaker? No, My Lord.
Have you got page 9 of your notes? Yes.
Have you made a note there of anybody who 25 spoke? Nokwe spoke.
Now go to the last note that you made of any- body that spoke at this meeting? Dr. H.M. Moosa.
Now I also want to hand to you a document marked G. 286. You identify that document? Yes, My 30
Lord. Was it a document that you obtained somewhere? 10177. (I. SHARP)
It was called by the T.I.C., A.N.C., S.A.0.1.0. and the 0.0.D. Did you make a note of people who were present at this meeting? I did, My Lord.
Would you look at your list, what is the first 5 name? Simon Tyiki.
No. 12? Hymie Barsel.
No. 14? Phineas Nene.
No. 17? Leon Levy.
No. 19? Moosa Moo11a. No. 21? Paried Adams.
No. 27? Lionel Morrison.
No. 29? Dr. H.M. Moosa.
No. 31? Elias Moretsele. No. 32? Robert Resha.
No. 34? Ebrahim Moolla. after No. 37 have you got a note there of who was chairman at this meeting? L. Masina.
And then you have got the name of the first speaker? Yes. 20
And then 41? Obed Motsabi.
Immediately after No. 42 you have got another name of a speaker? No, My Lord.
Have you got page 9 of your notes? Yes.
Have you made a note there of anybody who 25 spoke? Nokwe spoke.
Now go to the last note that you made of any- body that spoke at this meeting? Dr. H.M. Moosa.
Now I also want to hand to you a document marked G. 286. You identify that document? Yes, My 30
Lord. Was it a document that you obtained somewhere? 10179. shar:f) 1/ You have also, luring the course of your evi- dence so far referred to Resha, whom you identified as
Accused No. 17. Now where you referred in your evidence
to a person by the name of Resha, are all those references to the same person, Accused No. 17? Correct, My Lord. 5
IS that also the case in respect of Masina, whom you identified as accused No. 7? Where you referred to Masina in your evidence, is it to this Masina that you referred on each occasion? Yes, My Lord.
You also referred to Mandela, whom you iden- 10
tified as Accused No. 6. The references to your - in your evidence to Mandela, do they refer to the same person?
Yes, My Lord.
And Nkadimeng, the Nkadimeng that you referred to, on different occasions during your evidence, are they 15 a reference to the same person? Yes, My Lord.
And is that person Accused No. 15? Yes.
Does that also apply to the case of H. Joseph, whom you identified as Accused No. 2? When you referred to H. Joseph, are those references all references to the 20 same person, Accused No. 2? Yes, My Lord.
You have identified J. Molife as Accused No.
10. '.Then you referred to J. Molife in your evidence so far, has it always been a reference to the same J. Molife,
Accused No. 10? Yes, My Lord. 25
Would that also apply in the case where you referred to Nokwe? Yes, My Lord.
And you have referred on more than one occasion to Sisulu, whom you have identified as Accused
No. 19. Do you references to Sisulu refer to the same 30 person, Accused Nc. 19? Yes, My Lord.
And L. Ngoyi, you identified Accused No. 14 r
10180. (I. SHARP)
as L. Ngoyi. Where you have mentioned L. Ngoyi in your
evidence, are they references to the same person? Yes.
Namely Accused No. 14? Yes, My Lord.
S. Tyiki whom you identified as Accused No.
21, where you have referred to Tyiki in your evidence, is
that always a reference to the same person, namely Accused
No. 21? Yes, My Lord.
And you have also referred to Nene. Do your i — references to Nene refer to the same person? Yes.
The person that you identified as Accused No. 10
13? Yes, My Lord.
You have referred to Faried Adams and Faried
Ahmed Adams - now your references to F, Adams, do they
all refer to the same person? Correct.
The one that you identified as Accused No. 1? 15
Yes, My Lord.
3.P. Moretsele, do you references refer to the
same person too? Yes.
The person you identified as Accused No. 12?
Correct, My Lord. 20
Sibande, you have referred to Gert Sibande
^j or G. Sibande. Now whenever you referred to G. Sibande
or Gert Sibande, is that the same person? Yes, My Lord.
Is that the person you identified as Accused
No. 20? Yes, My Lord. 25
P. Mathole. The Mathole whom you referred to,
is it always a reference to th- same person? The same
person, My Lord.
Is that the one you identified as Accused
No. 8? Yes, My Lord. 30 Your references to M. Moolla or Moosa Moolla, do they all refer to the same person? Yes, My Lord. 10181 (I. SHaRP)
Is that the one you ilentified as Accused
No, 11? Yes, My Lord.
P. Molaoa or Patrick Molaoa, when you referred to Molaoa, is it a reference t the same person? The same person, My Lord. 5
Accused No. 9? Yes, My Lord.
And L. Levy? Do all your references to L. Levy, do they refer to the same Levy? The^same Levy.
The one you identified as Accused No. 4?
Yes, 10
And does that also apply in the case of
Lollan? Where you rafar to a Lollan, is it always to
Accused No. 5? That is correct. My Lord.
My Lords, following up the suggestion made by
Your Lordship the Presiding Judge this morning, the Crown 15 has had photographic copies made of some of these notes.
May I My Lords, at this stage just hand up an example -
My Lords, if this is satisfactory, we can have the notes done of this basis. These are notes made by the witness in ink, a photographic copy of it. 20
BY MR. JUSTICE RUMTFF :
Well, we don't think that you can get it any better, this is very clear.
BY MR. TRiSNGOVE :
My Lords, I would then at this stage ask 25 that there are a number of general questions I can still put to this witness, but it may be better if that stands over until the evidence of tha notes has been disposed of., The Crown is busy having these notes photographed, and My Lords, it may take a day or two to get this in 30 order. If the witness Sharp's evidence could stand down, now, until say Thursday at the earliest, My Lord, then in 10182 (I. SHART) the meanwhile we could have these notes photographed.
BY MR. JUSTICE RUMI-FF J
Those notes on which you wish to lead the witness and on which he has given evidence?
BY MR. TRENGOYE :
Yes, My Lord.
CASE REMANDED TO THE 2nd MARCH, I960.
COURT ADJOURNS.
I 10183 2/5/1960
MR. JOHNSTON
MR. HOEXTER: Your lordships, I call the next witness, D/Sgt, Johnston.
BEKKER J: Are these meetings ....
MR. HOEXTER: My lord, strictly no; this witness will be called to testify to a meeting - he will merely testify to documents taken at the meeting.
BEKKER J; Yes.
DANIEL NICHOLAAS CHRISTOPOLUS JOHNSTON S.S:
XD. BY MR. HOEXTER; Mr Johnston, you are a detective sergeant in the South African Police stationed at Capetown
?— I am.
And you are attached to the Security Division?— Tea.
Can you remember whether in the course of your duties at Cape Town you ever had cause to go to a meeting in the Banqueting Hall, of the City Hall?— Yes.
How do you remember the occasion?— It was a
Sunday morning, and I remember it was the 15 th August-
It was one of the first C.O.P. meetings that was held 20 there.
Had you conducted a search at the Banqueting
Hall before?— No, never before.
And thereafter?— Not after either.
And when you got there - leave aside your 25 search for the moment - when you got to the Banqueting
Hall . . .
RUMPFF J: I know it was the 15th August, but what year?
MR. HOEXTER; The witness cannot tell your 30 10184
MR. JOHNSTON
lordships that independently at this stage. It will 1 emerge immediately from the document, my lord. RUMPFF J: I see.
MR. HOEXTER; You have said that your recollec- tion is that this was one of the first Congress of the People meetings at Caps Town?-_ Yes. 5 When you got to the Banqueting Hall, was there a meeting in progress?— Yes. Did you enter the Hall?— Yes. And vere there people on the stage?— Yes.
Did you then seize documents from a person, or 10 from in front of a person on the stage?— Yes. Who was that person?— Greenwood Ngotyane.
Do you knew Ngotyane?— Yes, I know him well. Do you know of your own knowledge whether he was connected with any organisation, a political organisation, 15 in Cape Town?— Yes, hi was a leader of the A.N.C. and afterwards he was one of the chief leaders of the Con- gress of the People.
I now hand you the following Exhibits, G.807A, E, G, H and 0. The first four documents have a pencil 20 note on them "GrccnwOOt? Ngotyane"; will you see in whose handwriting that pencilled name is made?— That is my handwriting, after the letter "A" on the docu- ment .
Look quickly at all the documents please?— 25 Document "E" is in my handwriting; the letter G. in Gotyane is also in my handwriting; the letter G in the other documents that I now have in my hand is also in my handwriting, and also the letter G in Gotyane. The letter H is in my handwriting, and G in Gotyane is 50 • i -
10185
MR. JOHNSON C"
Gotyane is also in my handwriting. The "0" seems to me to be identical with the other marks that I made on docu- ments but there is no name written on it, Can you tell the Court where you got these documents from?— I got them from him. From whom*7— From Gotyane.
Where were the documents in relation to Gotyane; were they on his person or near him, or where?—As far as I can remember he was making a speech and document marked A he had in his hand. Before him on the table were the
other documents and also in a small brief case which he 10 had; I took some documents out of that briafcase. If you look at the opening lines of G.807A are you able to refresh your memory as to the year?— Yes, my lord, it says here Cape Western Provincial Conference of the Congress of the People held on the 15th August 1954, at the City Hall, Cape Town, at 10 a.m.
Please hand in the documents. You hand these documents in?— Yes. My lords, I'll deal with these very briefly.
G.807A - the title has been read, I read the opening 20
part of the document. It says; " "Report of Mr. G.M. Gotyane, Organising Secretary of the Cape Western Action Council of the Congress of the People on the 3rd item of the Agenda of the Cape Provincial Conference of the Cape Western for Congress of the People. Mr.Chairman, 25 Brothers and Sisters, the National Volunteer Board calls for a great nationwide campaign to rouse the people against Apartheid and prepare them for decisive steps to defeat it and root it out of the seat of power." ^ Then dot, dot, dot. "They call on the citizens of MR. JOHNSTON
South Africa to take part in the campaign; they call for 50,000 South Africans to volunteer for active and intensive work in the campaign, mobilising the spirit of resistance to apartheid and carrying to every corner of our. ...the message that we must stand and fight till apartheid is de- feated."f Volunteers must rise to new heights greater even than during the Defiance Campaign, the spirit of the peo- ple of all races to win freedom by their own efforts Volunteers must carry throughout the country the message of the coming Congress of the People and must gather in the demands of the people for the Freedom Charter which will be adopted at the Congress of the People. Volun- teers must meet the reckless violence and reliance on force of the Nationalist Government with discipline and a refusal to be provoked, and determination to carry on their struggle till liberty is won. Volunteers . The next one, my lords, G.807E is the same as Exhibit B.35. The Next, G.807G is a letter on the letterhead of the National Action Council of the Congress of the People, 4A Quarts (a) Street, Johannesburg, dated the 1st July. 1954, signed 'Yours fraternally, W.M Sisulu' typed in, and apparently also the signature in ink. It is addressed to the Secretary of the Joint Working Com- mittee, A N.C, S.A.C.O.P. S.A.C.P.O , Box 4347, Cape Town, and it is an administrative letter dealing with the functions of the Nation Action Council and a de- £ tailed circular on the important question of volunteers as to enrolment, method of organisation and allocation of tasks is being prepared and will be sent in the fol- lowing week". Lastly, the addressee is cailed upon to acknowledge receipt of the letter and copies of the 10187
MR. JOHNSTON
Call. G.807H, my lords, is a typewritten letter^ the -j same letterhead as the previous letter, dated 3rd August, 1954, signed 'Yours fraternally W.M. Sisulu, for Secre- tariat", also with the signature in ink. It was address- ed - apparenrly a circular - to the Provincial Committees for the Congress of the People, and says, "Dear Friend, e as you are aware there will be a meeting of the full National Action Council in Durban, on Sunday August 15th. The purpose of the council meeting is to consider the progress made to date, and to plan the next stages in the campaign for the Congress of the People. Your region ^ will have one representative at the Council, and he will be required tc give a full report on the work which has already been done in your region", and it says this report should be submitted in writing. G.807"0" is a roneoed slip headed "Cape Western Action Council of the Congress 15 of the People" and it appears to be an agenda of the Cape Western Provincial Conference to be held on the 15th August, 1954, at 10 a.m. at the Banqueting Hall, City Hall, Cape Town. Mr Johnston, do you know a person
G. Ngugenyete?— Yes, I know him. 20 Do you know of your own knowledge whether he was connected with any political organisation at the
Cape?— Yes, he was the Secretary of the Lange Branch of the A.N.C.
When was that approximately?— Up to the date 25 of his arrest in 1956. Was he an accused person at the Preparatory Examination?— Yes he was. Do you know a person Joe Morolong*7— Yes, I know him very well. 50 10188
MR. JOHNSTON
What is his full name?— Joseph Morolong, i
Is he connected with any political organisation at the Cape?— Yes he is secretary of the Cape Town
Branch of the A.N.C. How long has he held that post?— For many years.
Do you know whether or not he was an accused at ^
the Preparatory Examination in this case?— I cannot re-
member now.
Do you know a person J. Mtini?— Yes, I know
John Mtini very well. Is he connected with any political organisation 10 at the Cape?— Yes.he was also a secretary of the A.N.C. Elsies River Branch. For what period of time?— Up to the time of his arrest. He was one of the accused in this case. And you have already described the position 15 occupied "by Ngotyane?— Yes.
I have no further questions your lordships.
XXD. BY MR. BERRANGE: You h^ve described Ngotyane as being a leader of the A.N.C, What do you mean by 20 that?— He was chairman at many of the meetings, he addressed many of the meetings, and I know that he was chief election officer in certain election cam- paigns that were held in the Cape. What sort of election, Provincial Council... 25 ?— Parliamentary elections. Those are your reasons for describing him as a leader?— And also documents I found in his pos- session that were addressed to him. In whet capacity?— I know that he was serving 30 10189
MR. JOHNSTON
on the Regional Committee of the A.N.C. ^
Where do you know that from?—r I know for in- stance that on certain information I received in regard to certain documents which I handed in, that I met him in George.
You met him in George In other words you got P your information from the documents?— Yes, naturally.
And when you t alk about him as "being a chief leader of the C.0,P, what do you mean "by that?— I would say that he was engaged in a leading role of the organisation? he was always with the people who esta- j.0 "blished these organisations. He always used to speak at their meetings. I see. Now I only want to refer you to Exhibit G.807. This is a document which has to do with the ques- tion of volunteers, what are called freedom volunteers, 15 and having dealt with the duties of freedom volunteers and the code of discipline, you remember you read out some of it, I just want to read the penultimate paragraph of this, "During the Defiance Campaign not only people who are uiembirs of organisations were drawn in the De- 20 fiance Campaign but people who never interest themselves in any political belief; they also joined very enthu- siastically. The 8,500 men and women who participated observed and adhered to the principle of non-violence 11 and did not allow hemselves to be provoked by the police. 25 That is in this document, is it?— Yes. Thar.k you, my lords. MR. HOEXTER; No re-examination, my lords. (WITNESS EXCUSED) -r—i,u. v
10190
D/Con.Sauerman
SALMON ESIAS SAUERMAN S.S:
XD. BY MR. HOEXTER; You are a Detective Head Constable in the S.A.P. stationed at Cape Town?— I am.
You have already given evidence?— Yes.
Can you remember - we'll come to the date later that yof on one occasion in the course of your duties conducted a search at the Banqueting Hall of the Cape
Town City Hall?— Yes, it was during the time when a conference 7rr° ^ing held there of the Congreaa of
Democrats, the Congress of the People.
Were you accompanied by any other members of the S.A.P?— Yes, I was.
Whc were they?— Amongst others was D/Sgt.
Johnston.
Is that the previous witness?— Yes.
Anc can you remember who you found at the 15 door?— Ben Turok.
Do you know this person?— I do.
Do you know whether he was an accused at the Preparatory Examination?— He was.
And did you in fact enter the Banqueting 20 Hall?— I did.
And did there appear to be a meeting in pro- gress?— There was*
Were there any people on the stage?— Yes, there was. 25 Are you able to say who those people were?—
The chairman was Lee Warden; then there was a native by the name of Greenwood Ngotyane.
And is Ngotyane known to you?— Yes, he is.
Is he connected with any political organisation 10191
MR. SAUERMAN
in the Cape?— Yes, he is a member of the A.N.C.
Do you know whether or not he was an accused at the Preparatory Examination in this case?— He was. Any other person?— Then there was Leon Levy.
Do you know this person9— Yes. Would you be able to point him out?— Yes. Will you do so please?—(Witness points out accused No.4). I now hand you Exhibit G.999* can you tell the Court what this exhibit is?— That is a pamphlet reading as follows: "National Volunteer Board of National Action Council."
Before you describe it further, can you tell the Court whether you have seen this document before?— Yes, I have seen it before.
Does it bear a name in pencil in your handwrit- ing?— Yes.
What is the name?— Lee Warden.
And where did you obtain this document?— It was lying in front of Lee Warden on the table. At this meeting to which you have testified?— Yea Can you remember on what day of the week this meeting took place?— It was on a Sunday. And is it possible for you to estimate the date - if you can't remember say so?— It was during August, the correct date I do not remember. Of what year?— 1954. Hand me the document please. My lords, this Exhibit consists of three documents, the first docu- ment isa document headed "National Volunteer Board of 10192
Mr. Sauerman
the National Action Council and it is further described i as "The Freedom Volunteers Code of Discipline". This document is contained in B.35 already handed in. The next document is a roneod document and it's in a native language, and it looks as though it may be a translation of the document I have just referred to. The third docu- 5 ment in the series is marked "Annexure "B" It's a docu- ment in pencil headed "Credential Report" and contains the names of certain areas in the Cape You hand in this document?— Yes.
Do you know a person J. Morolong from Cape Town 10 ?— Yes. How long have you known him?— Since 1948. Do you know whether or not he was an accused at the Preparatory Examination?— He was.
Do you know whether he is, or was connected ^ with any political organisation in Cape Town?-- Yes, he was a member of the Communist Party in Cape Town.
On what do you base that?— He attended many meetings on the Parade which were held under the aus- pices of the Communist Party of that time. He was also ^ a member of the African National Congress.
Did you ever see him or hear him speak at meetings of the Communist Party on the Parade?— I wouldn't go as far as to say that I heard him speaking at meetings of the Communist Party. ^ Was he connected with any other organisation apart from the A.N.C?— No, only the A.N.C. meetings did I hear him address the meetings. Do you know a person in Cape Town called John Mtini?— Yes, I do. 30 10193
Mr Sauerman
Do you know whether or not he was an aocused at the Preparatory Examination in this case?— He was. Can you tell us whether he is or was connected with any political organisation in Cape Town?— He was a member of the Communist Party before 1950.
Why do you say that?— He attended meetings, on the Parade; that were held under the auspices of the Communist Party.
Was he connected with any other political orga- nisation?— Yes, the A.N.C. also.
How long have you known John Mtini?— Since 1948.
In conclusion, do you remember that when last you testified you were asked about the addresses of certain people in Cape Town connected with certain publications?— Yes.
Now, my lords, your lordships will recollect that at an earlier stage two exhibits M.A.145 and 146 were handed in. These are certificates given under the hand of the Secretary for the Interior, being an extract from the Register of Newspapers. The person Carnesson, about whom you told us when last you gave evidence, do you know whether he was an accused at the Preparatory Examination?— He was.
What is his full name9— Fred Carnesson.
The person 1.0. Horwitz, about whom you told us on the last occasion, do you know whether or not he was an accused at the Preparatory Examination?—He waa'. And a person L. Forman„ Lionel Forman, do you know ehether he was an accused at the Preparatory Examina- 10194 Mr Sauerman
tion?— He was.
Did you know any other person by the name of For man who was active in political organisations in Cape Cape Town?— No. And connected with any publication?— No. Can you tell us whether to your own knowledge any of these gentlemen were connected with any publica- tion known to you in Cape Town?— Yes. "The New Age", "Advance", .... Confining yourself to the "New Age" and "Advance who was connected with this paper?— Fred Carnesun.
Is that the same person you mentioned earlier ?— Yes.
Yes?— Isaac Osier Horwitz, and Lionel Forman. He has died since.
Lastly. Mr. Sauerman, how did you know these people in relation to the newspapers you've mentioned?— Mr. Fred Carnessun wae the business manager. Of what9— Of "New Age". 1,0. Horwitz and Lionel Forman, I'm not quite certain what part they played, but Horwitz was a director. I found Lionel Forman many times at the offices of this institution, in the office where he was working.
BEKKER J: What was Horwitz a director of? — Of the publishers of this paper.
MR. HOEXTER; Where was the office of this newspaper?— Barrack Street No. 6, Cape Town. Lastly, Mr. Sauerman, did you on the 1st April, 1956, conduct a search at 37 West Street, Johan- nesburg?— I did. And did you go alone or were you accompanied 10195 MR. SAUERMAN
by other members of the Police Force?— Yes, I was.
And when you arrived there did a meeting appear to be in progress?— There was.
Did you at that meeting seize any documents?—
I did.
Would you look at Exhibit G.1201 before you?—
It's not marked.
I beg your lordships' pardon, this is a docu- ment which was not handed in at the Preparatory Exami- nation; the last G exhibit is G.1200; I would like, subject to what my learned friend says, to mark this one G.1201.
RUMPFF J: Yes.
MR. EOEXTER; Where did you find this document ?~
At the offices where the raid took place, at 37 West
Street, Johannesburg. It was in possession of Yetta
Barnblaat.
Did you know this person?— Not personally.
Do you know of your own knowledge whether or not she was an accused at the Preparatory Examination?—
No.
Hand me the document please. You hand in this document?— Yes.
My lords, this is a typed letter signed - it's on the letterhead of the S.A.Society for Peace } and Friendship with the Soviet Union, P.O.Box 2920,
Johannesburg; it's a typewritten letter dated the
31st March, 1956, signed - or typewritten by a person
H. Bartle, Secretary, and it is addressed to the Se- cretary of the S.A.Congress of Democrats, Johannesburg
It sends fraternal greetings to their annual general Collection: 1956 Treason Trial Collection number: AD1812
PUBLISHER: Publisher:- Historical Papers, The Library, University of the Witwatersrand Location:- Johannesburg ©2011
LEGAL NOTICES:
Copyright Notice: All materials on the Historical Papers website are protected by South African copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, or otherwise published in any format, without the prior written permission of the copyright owner.
Disclaimer and Terms of Use: Provided that you maintain all copyright and other notices contained therein, you may download material (one machine readable copy and one print copy per page) for your personal and/or educational non-commercial use only.
People using these records relating to the archives of Historical Papers, The Library, University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, are reminded that such records sometimes contain material which is uncorroborated, inaccurate, distorted or untrue. While these digital records are true facsimiles of paper documents and the information contained herein is obtained from sources believed to be accurate and reliable, Historical Papers, University of the Witwatersrand has not independently verified their content. Consequently, the University is not responsible for any errors or omissions and excludes any and all liability for any errors in or omissions from the information on the website or any related information on third party websites accessible from this website.