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PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT GENERAL COMMITTEES Select Committee on the Armed Forces Bill ARMED FORCES BILL Fourth Sitting Thursday 17 February 2011 CONTENTS New clauses considered. Committee adjourned at eighteen minutes to Twelve o’clock. PUBLISHED BY AUTHORITY OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS LONDON – THE STATIONERY OFFICE LIMITED £5·00 PBC (Bill 122) 2010 - 2011 Members who wish to have copies of the Official Report of Proceedings in General Committees sent to them are requested to give notice to that effect at the Vote Office. No proofs can be supplied. Corrigenda slips may be published with Bound Volume editions. Corrigenda that Members suggest should be clearly marked in a copy of the report—not telephoned—and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons, not later than Monday 21 February 2011 STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT WILL GREATLY FACILITATE THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF THE BOUND VOLUMES OF PROCEEDINGS IN GENERAL COMMITTEES © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2011 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ Enquiries to the Office of Public Sector Information, Kew, Richmond, Surrey TW9 4DU; e-mail: [email protected] 87 Select Committee on the17 FEBRUARY 2011 Armed Forces Bill 88 The Committee consisted of the following Members: Chair: MR JAMES ARBUTHNOT † Cunningham, Alex (Stockton North) (Lab) † Osborne, Sandra (Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock) (Lab) Docherty, Thomas (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab) † Pincher, Christopher (Tamworth) (Con) † Doyle, Gemma (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op) † Robathan, Mr Andrew (Parliamentary Under- † Ellwood, Mr Tobias (Bournemouth East) (Con) Secretary of State for Defence) † Francois, Mr Mark (Vice-Chamberlain of Her † Russell, Bob (Colchester) (LD) Majesty’s Household) † Wright, David (Telford) (Lab) † Jones, Mr Kevan (North Durham) (Lab) Georgina Holmes-Skelton, Committee Clerk † Lancaster, Mark (Milton Keynes North) (Con) † Lopresti, Jack (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con) † attended the Committee 89 Select Committee on theHOUSE OF COMMONS Armed Forces Bill 90 Hew Strachan’s “Report of the Task Force on the Select Committee on the Military Covenant” recommended a veterans privilege Armed Forces Bill card: “Currently veterans have no convenient way to identify themselves. A recognised identity card would allow veterans to identify Thursday 17 February 2011 themselves to service providers and to claim any discounts offered by private companies.” [MR JAMES ARBUTHNOT in the Chair] Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): Would it be a useful mechanism if such a card was endorsed by and linked to the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency, Armed Forces Bill which would have a record of who was a veteran, to stop the terrible practice, which unfortunately occurs, New Clause 1 of people purporting to be veterans when they are not? Alex Cunningham: It most certainly would. My hon. VETERANS ID CARD Friend is totally correct. Of course, he is much more ‘(1) The Secretary of State shall institute a Veterans’ Identification Card to assist former members of the armed forces in obtaining experienced in these matters than I am and will recognise the access to public services to which they are entitled, including the benefits much more than I can. priority treatment on the National Health Service and other Lieutenant-General Sir Freddie Viggers was reported services which may become available to them from other organisations. in The Independent in March 2009 as welcoming a (2) In this section “veteran” is taken to mean former members veterans card. He said that service people very much of any of Her Majesty’s Forces who are ordinarily resident in the regretted handing in their service card: United Kingdom.’.—(Alex Cunningham.) “It is about value and self worth, not about a piece of plastic. We carry these cards for the whole of our service and when we 10 am leave we are required to hand them in. Psychologically, it is a bad Brought up, and read the First time. thing. It is a little bit of plastic but it represents who you are and what you did.” Clearly, Sir Freddie Viggers believed that a veterans Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): I beg to card would help to restore and retain the identity afforded move, That the clause be read a Second time. by the service card. I believe that such a card would help I start by reassuring the Minister that this is a probing with the transition from leaving the armed forces to new clause; I would like to hear the Government’s view. becoming a civilian again, with the many challenges A veterans identity card would be a way to ensure that that that poses for our people. veterans who had risked their lives for their country A veterans card has also had support from Conservative were valued by the community in a practical and clear MPs. The hon. Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer), way that would be welcomed by our veterans. It would who is himself a distinguished veteran, welcomed proposals make them easily identifiable, so that we could ensure for a veterans ID card in 2009, saying in the same article that they received priority treatment in areas such as in The Independent: health care and housing, as well as various financial “It is about bloody time. At last, a reasonable, sensible minister”— benefits. An extension to that could be access to services that was my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham— from other organisations, public or private, that might “who listens to ideas from across the political spectrum.” choose to recognise our service people’s contribution to our country by offering concessions for everything from Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): I theme parks to the local butchers. have some sympathy with the new clause. The problem We owe it to our veterans to ensure that a system is in I have is with the definition of “veteran”. I speak from place that allows them easily to obtain the services to experience, as someone who commanded a TA squadron. which I have referred and the benefits to which they are Quite often, we would have people joining the TA who entitled. That would be a small acknowledgement of would come in, attest and officially join the Army. We their hard work fighting for their country. It is particularly would then never see them again, or see perhaps only relevant now, as many veterans have served in recent 10% of them. Is the hon. Gentleman saying that, according conflicts and suffered serious injuries. For the period to his definition of “veteran”, somebody who attested 7 October 2001 to 31 January 2011, 241 UK military and was in for perhaps one day would be entitled to the personnel were categorised as very seriously injured card and all the benefits? from all causes excluding disease, and 252 UK military personnel were categorised as seriously injured from all Alex Cunningham: No, I am not suggesting that at all. causes excluding disease. We need to be very clear, and I will comment further on Similar systems exist in the USA, Canada and France. who we could include in such a scheme if we were to go In the USA, there are several veterans card schemes. ahead with it. The Government have been reluctant to Most are run at state level. Benefits depend on the state, commit to this idea, with the Veterans Minister ruling but can include financial assistance for home ownership out ID cards for veterans in letters to hon. Members. In and further education, as well as free hunting and the House in December last year, my hon. Friend the fishing licences. I am not suggesting that any of us Member for West Dunbartonshire asked the Minister should endorse hunting, but I am sure that the Committee about a veterans card scheme. The Minister replied that knows exactly what I am getting at. Our nation states “it is difficult to identify who has been in the armed forces over a might want to provide different benefits, as US states period of perhaps 60 years, and to ensure that it is feasible”.—[Official do, but I do not see that as a problem for the proposal. Report, 13 December 2010; Vol. 520, c. 645.] 91 Select Committee on the17 FEBRUARY 2011 Armed Forces Bill 92 I agree with the Minister, which is why I think it would A veterans card is very much needed. We have the be best to roll a scheme out over time to all new veterans opportunity today to indicate that Parliament is in tune as they leave the service, having done proper service, with public opinion, and also values our veterans by and perhaps to those from modern-day conflicts, such providing them with a card that they can be proud of. as the 500 injured service people I mentioned earlier, rather than trying to identify all 4 million veterans who live in the UK. Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): I congratulate the The previous Government were in discussions about hon. Gentleman on the measured way he spoke and the introducing a veterans card, and the Labour party research he has put into the new clause. I am sure that manifesto pledged to introduce such a scheme. As I am the principle behind it will be supported everywhere. It sure hon. Members remember, the manifesto said: may be that the wording needs to be refined, not least “A Veterans ID card will help Veterans access their improved following the observations made by the hon. Member benefits and will be free to service leavers.” for North Durham, the former Veterans Minister, who Last week, the leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Nick in that job had experience of people who claimed to be Bourne, announced proposals to introduce such a card.