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Sir Hugh Casson Interviewed by Cathy Courtney: Full Transcript of the Interview

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Sir Hugh Casson Interviewed by Cathy Courtney: Full Transcript of the Interview IN PARTNERSHIP WITH NATIONAL LIFE STORIES LEADERS OF NATIONAL LIFE Sir Hugh Casson Interviewed by Cathy Courtney C408/16 This transcript is copyright of the British Library Board. Please refer to the Oral History curators at the British Library prior to any publication or broadcast from this document. Oral History The British Library 96 Euston Road NW1 2DB 020 7412 7404 [email protected] IMPORTANT Every effort is made to ensure the accuracy of this transcript, however no transcript is an exact translation of the spoken word, and this document is intended to be a guide to the original recording, not replace it. Should you find any errors please inform the Oral History curators ([email protected]) British Library Sound Archive National Life Stories Interview Summary Sheet Title Page Ref no: C408/16/01-24 Playback no: F1084 – F1093; F1156 – F1161; F1878 – F1881; F2837 – F2838; F6797 Collection title: Leaders of National Life Interviewee’s surname: Casson Title: Mr Interviewee’s forename: Hugh Sex: Male Occupation: Architect Date and place of birth: 1910 - 1999 Mother’s occupation: Father’s occupation: Dates of recording: 1990.02.13, 1990.02.16, 1990.02.19, 1990.03.13, 1990.04.19, 1990.05.11, 1990.05.22, 1990.08.28, 1990.07.31, 1990.08.07, 1991.05.22, 1991.06.03, 1991.06.18, 1991.07.13 Location of interview: Interviewer's home, National Sound Archive and Interviewee's home Name of interviewer: Cathy Courtney Type of recorder: Marantz CP430 Type of tape: TDK 60 Mono or stereo: Stereo Speed: N/A Noise reduction: Dolby B Original or copy: Original Additional material: Copyright/Clearance: Interviewer’s comments: Sir Hugh Casson C408/016/F1084-A Page 1 F1084 Side A First interview with Hugh Casson - February 13th, 1990. All right, now tell me ... Are we on? Are we on? Yes. Tell me where you were born. And into what sort of family. Yes. I was born in London in 1910. My father was in the Indian Civil Service, and my mother met him when she went out with what used to be called "The Fishing Fleet". These were daughters who were sent out to pick up husbands in the Services, or in the colonies generally, and sometimes they brought back husbands, and sometimes they didn't. And my mother fell in love, not surprisingly, with my father, who was an extremely entertaining and funny, and clever man, who had been a ... a scholar at Cambridge, and had intended to be an astronomer, but the family had fallen on rather hard financial times, because my grandfather was a banker, or bank manager, rather, who'd suddenly become passionate about organ building, and he'd founded a small firm for building small organs, rather in advance of the Japanese ones which we get now, specially for use with missionaries in corrugated iron churches in the middle of Africa. Why was he building for them, particularly? And he got into ... what? Why was he building for them, particularly? Why was he building for them, particularly? Well, they wanted small organs of high quality, and up to now there were only harmoniums. So he invented, in fact, a particular sort of portable organ, which was bought in large numbers. Funnily enough, in the country houses of Wales, where he was brought up, they used to play hymns after dinner, in peoples' houses, on the organ instead of the piano. Sir Hugh Casson C408/016/F1084-A Page 2 Anyway, the trouble was, dealing with missionary societies, they always thought you were doing it for nothing, and so, gradually the firm folded. And my father was told that he couldn't become an astronomer because there wasn't enough money around, and so he applied for the Indian Civil Service, which was the senior service in those days. You had to be, have a first class degree to get into it - which was in the last decade of the 19th century. And the interesting thing was that, when he went to say goodbye to the Secretary of State for India, who said personally goodbye to every officer leaving for service in India and Burma, he said, "You realise, of course, that this is a job with a maximum of 15 years. Because your task when you get there, is to hand India back to the Indians, and the sooner you do it, the better. Goodbye, and good luck”. I was always rather surprised at learning this. So was my father, I may say! He thought he'd got a job for life! But anyway, my mother went out with her father, my grandfather, and her father was a barrister, practicing in India and Burma, and he had one, two, three, four daughters, who were of marriageable age ... when I was born ... and they all married into the, into the services. I mean, in those days, the Empire was an enormous reservoir into which every middle-class child plunged. It was either the Army, or the Navy or the Indian Survey, or the Kenya Rifles, or the Persian Customs, or the Egyptian Civil Service. There were hundreds of jobs for young, active, interested, and pretty clever people, because they were very much on their own. I mean, at the age of 28, you'd have an area the size of Wales to deal with, not only with settling boundary disputes, but organizing tax collections, organizing canal building, or railway extensions. You were, in fact, sort of a one-man Cabinet when you were out there. He adored it. He was most of his life in Burma, and he learnt Burmese, of course, and adored the Burmese people, who are very lazy, and very jolly. They're lazy because the food drops off the trees, more or less, so they don't have to work. Most of the work was done by Chinese. And he was out there when I was born, in 1910. And what was nice, I think, when he married my mother, or got engaged to her, and she was sent home to, to tell the family and everything, he gave her a return ticket back, from London ...to Burma, to London. Because, he said, a lot of girls get engaged, they go home again, and they go out again, hopefully, and then, by the time they get there, they think, "Do I really want to?" and then haven't the nerve to go back. And so don't have very happy lives, so he gave her a return ticket. So he said, "If you look down from the promenade deck of the P&O and think it will be absolutely terrible', stay on board and go home and no offence." If she had gone home, what would she have gone back to? Sir Hugh Casson C408/016/F1084-A Page 3 What would she have gone back to? She'd have gone to live with her parents who, in those days, were living near Folkestone. My mother's father was reasonably well off, he'd been a lawyer, and my father's parents had both died pretty well, pretty early on in life. I'd never met either of them. And they were both large families of brothers and sisters. And my father's eldest brother, Lewis Casson, wanted to be an actor, but there was no money in that. So he had to become an electrical engineer. Two of them became electrical engineers. They went to the Imperial College of Science. He eventually, of course, became an actor, and a very successful producer/director, and married Sybil Thorndike, the actress, to whom they were, they were a devoted and very sort of old-fashioned married couple. She'd been ... every year, she used to go to America with Ben Greet's traveling company, doing a different play every night, getting into the train the next morning, going on to the next town. And as men are always weaker than women, the men were always falling ill from exhaustion. So she was quite accustomed to playing either Catherine of Aragon or Henry VIII. It depended who was there that night. So she was a, she was a very sparkling girl, and she wanted to be a professional pianist, but she'd hurt her wrist, so she turned to acting. Were she and Lewis part of your childhood, or not? Yes, they were. Actually, I didn't really meet them until I was about seven, because they lived in London, and like all sort of, Anglo-Indian children, my sister and I - she was one year older than I was - lived with aunts, or governesses, or temporary aunts, who, not real aunts, but appointed aunts, or with grandparents. And so you spent your time in a different house every holidays from school. We went to lots of schools because we were always moving around. I went to a little convent where I got a prize for drawing a daffodil, when I was about five, I remember. My first prize for drawing. And we had a very happy childhood, really, because I was, by nature, I hope not effusive, but friendly. My sister was much more shy, and I hope I wasn't ingratiating, but I can't think of a nice word for either of those things, except "friendly". Do you know much about your father's actual childhood? Nothing really. Did he grow up in Wales? Sir Hugh Casson C408/016/F1084-A Page 4 He grew up in Wales. He was born on the peninsula of Portmeirion.
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